WEBVTT 1 00:00:04.839 --> 00:00:07.759 All right, welcome back in Our guest is ken Block, 2 00:00:07.799 --> 00:00:11.480 and the book is Disproven, my unbiased search for voter 3 00:00:11.560 --> 00:00:14.279 fraud and the Trump campaign the data that shows why 4 00:00:14.320 --> 00:00:17.079 he lost and how we can improve our elections. And 5 00:00:17.079 --> 00:00:19.039 we're going to spend a lot of time on election reform, 6 00:00:19.440 --> 00:00:22.960 not so much about litigating twenty twenty. He's got a 7 00:00:23.000 --> 00:00:25.559 lot to say. How did he get involved in this, Well, 8 00:00:25.920 --> 00:00:30.640 he is president of a software systems company, Simpatico, software 9 00:00:30.679 --> 00:00:36.840 engineer and entrepreneur specializes in database technologies and groundbreaking projects, 10 00:00:36.880 --> 00:00:41.000 such as the country's first statewide debit card benefits system 11 00:00:42.000 --> 00:00:45.200 in Texas. He saved them billion dollars off of the 12 00:00:46.320 --> 00:00:51.439 fraud and waste and their snap programs. But as he said, 13 00:00:51.439 --> 00:00:56.359 he wasn't really interested in getting involved in politics. But 14 00:00:56.880 --> 00:00:59.920 you know, sometimes we find that politics is interested in us. 15 00:01:00.399 --> 00:01:02.840 In the past decade, he's analyzed voter data from more 16 00:01:02.880 --> 00:01:05.400 than forty states. The few that he has yet to 17 00:01:05.439 --> 00:01:08.200 analyze do not provide their data to the public. He 18 00:01:08.239 --> 00:01:11.480 has served as an expert and legal challenges that involve 19 00:01:11.680 --> 00:01:15.879 voting data, voter fraud, and election integrity. So we'll talk 20 00:01:15.920 --> 00:01:18.120 to him about all of these things and about what 21 00:01:18.159 --> 00:01:20.560 he has learned as he investigates us, what can we 22 00:01:20.599 --> 00:01:23.519 do to make sure that we have honest elections that 23 00:01:23.560 --> 00:01:25.519 are not going to be contested. Thank you for joining us. 24 00:01:25.519 --> 00:01:27.359 Sir, Thanks for having me. 25 00:01:27.799 --> 00:01:29.519 It's very important because we've got a lot of people 26 00:01:29.560 --> 00:01:32.319 are very concerned about this, and rightfully so, a lot 27 00:01:32.319 --> 00:01:35.239 of people are ready to have a revolution if the 28 00:01:35.319 --> 00:01:39.040 candidate that they think should win does not win, and 29 00:01:39.120 --> 00:01:43.239 in a equally divided country like this, half the people 30 00:01:43.239 --> 00:01:46.319 are pretty much feeling that way. I saw that your 31 00:01:46.519 --> 00:01:50.799 forward was written by Brad Raffensberger, the Georgia Secretary of State. 32 00:01:51.319 --> 00:01:54.400 That again over the weekend. I talked about this. At 33 00:01:54.400 --> 00:01:58.959 the beginning of the program. Trump was furious at Governor Kemp. 34 00:01:59.480 --> 00:02:03.120 He talk about Raffensberger, but they have in the past, 35 00:02:03.680 --> 00:02:07.959 and so you know he is and I said this 36 00:02:07.959 --> 00:02:10.159 about him. I said, it's unfortunate that he is so 37 00:02:10.280 --> 00:02:14.599 focused on revenge that he can't be focused on even winning, 38 00:02:15.280 --> 00:02:18.159 let alone on reform. And so I want to talk 39 00:02:18.199 --> 00:02:19.840 about that. But before we get into what we can 40 00:02:19.840 --> 00:02:21.719 do for reform, tell us a little bit about your 41 00:02:21.759 --> 00:02:24.439 take on what happened in Georgia where you investigated. 42 00:02:26.120 --> 00:02:33.319 Yeah, it's the idea that in states that are whisker close, 43 00:02:33.400 --> 00:02:38.000 and we have a bunch of them, we have Arizona, Pennsylvania, Georgia, 44 00:02:38.800 --> 00:02:42.360 Michigan is not really whisker close, but close enough Nevada. 45 00:02:42.719 --> 00:02:46.719 The idea that if the election goes one way as 46 00:02:46.719 --> 00:02:50.159 opposed to another, that the only explanation for it must 47 00:02:50.159 --> 00:02:56.319 have been fraud is not an accurate way to depict 48 00:02:56.319 --> 00:03:00.240 what happened in these elections, And in Georgia in twenty twenty, 49 00:03:01.680 --> 00:03:06.000 there are there's a ready explanation for what happened, and 50 00:03:06.120 --> 00:03:08.800 Georgia is maybe in a lot of ways the closest 51 00:03:08.840 --> 00:03:13.080 state that we have in terms of being evenly divided 52 00:03:13.120 --> 00:03:18.919 between Democrats and Republicans. The results of the twenty twenty 53 00:03:18.960 --> 00:03:21.240 election have been gone up and down and backwards and 54 00:03:21.360 --> 00:03:26.520 votes and sideways, and there really hasn't surfaced any credible 55 00:03:26.599 --> 00:03:28.479 claim of voter fraud that could be proven. 56 00:03:29.560 --> 00:03:30.800 And in my work for the. 57 00:03:30.800 --> 00:03:36.000 Trump campaign, I was hired very specifically to do data 58 00:03:36.039 --> 00:03:40.159 analytics that would stand up in a court of law. 59 00:03:40.280 --> 00:03:43.599 My job was to find enough voter fraud to matter 60 00:03:44.199 --> 00:03:47.719 in one of the swing states documented and have it 61 00:03:47.800 --> 00:03:51.120 be so rock solid that when it got taken to court, 62 00:03:51.240 --> 00:03:54.439 the other side's experts wouldn't be able to tear it apart. 63 00:03:55.000 --> 00:03:56.120 That's sort of the gold. 64 00:03:55.960 --> 00:03:59.479 Standard when you're dealing with legal challenges to elections. You 65 00:03:59.520 --> 00:04:02.879 have to have have a foundation of fact in which 66 00:04:02.960 --> 00:04:07.000 to be successful in court. And the simple fact of 67 00:04:07.000 --> 00:04:09.120 the matter is whether it was Georgia or any of 68 00:04:09.159 --> 00:04:12.840 the other swing states. While we found some voter fraud, 69 00:04:13.240 --> 00:04:17.920 we didn't find nearly enough to cover the margin of victory. 70 00:04:17.920 --> 00:04:19.560 And the margin of victory in Georgia. 71 00:04:19.360 --> 00:04:23.079 Was roughly twelve thousand votes, It was roughly eleven thousand 72 00:04:23.120 --> 00:04:27.360 votes in Arizona, roughly ninety thousand votes in Pennsylvania. And 73 00:04:27.439 --> 00:04:29.879 in none of those states did we find enough voter 74 00:04:30.000 --> 00:04:35.879 fraud to cover what those margins were. And that's just 75 00:04:35.879 --> 00:04:38.079 a plain statement of fact. And there were so many 76 00:04:38.199 --> 00:04:41.920 election challenges that failed in the court system because the 77 00:04:42.040 --> 00:04:46.000 nature of their proof wasn't acceptable proof in courts. 78 00:04:45.680 --> 00:04:49.079 Of law, right, And that's just sort of a talk 79 00:04:49.160 --> 00:04:52.360 about them taking their findings. I know that you were 80 00:04:52.600 --> 00:04:54.800 there to prepare the findings that they would use argue 81 00:04:54.800 --> 00:04:57.560 the case, but did they ever talk about taking the 82 00:04:57.600 --> 00:05:01.120 case instead of to a court to the legislature, because 83 00:05:01.160 --> 00:05:05.279 I know for these razor thin margin victory for a 84 00:05:05.319 --> 00:05:08.120 Biden for these states had Republican legislatures were they were 85 00:05:08.120 --> 00:05:10.639 talking about presenting a case to the legislature to get 86 00:05:10.639 --> 00:05:15.560 them to acknowledge a Republican slate of electors officially, and 87 00:05:15.600 --> 00:05:19.399 then you would have had, as Thomas Massey talked about, 88 00:05:19.439 --> 00:05:22.000 as Pence talked about, as JD. Vance recently talked about, 89 00:05:22.480 --> 00:05:26.759 to have then a court case as to who gets 90 00:05:26.759 --> 00:05:29.839 to decide who the electors are. Is it going to 91 00:05:29.879 --> 00:05:31.680 be the governor and the executive branch? Is it going 92 00:05:31.720 --> 00:05:33.439 to be the legislative branch. Was there every any talk 93 00:05:33.480 --> 00:05:35.519 about taking the case to the legislatures? 94 00:05:36.279 --> 00:05:40.879 So I wasn't part of any strategy meetings inside the campaign. 95 00:05:41.000 --> 00:05:44.319 My job was incredibly focused and I had thirty days 96 00:05:44.360 --> 00:05:46.959 to do what amounted to about a year's. 97 00:05:46.680 --> 00:05:47.360 Worth of work. 98 00:05:47.920 --> 00:05:54.439 So I was highly occupied and segmented away from everything 99 00:05:54.439 --> 00:05:56.839 else that was swirling around the campaign at the time. 100 00:05:58.000 --> 00:06:03.360 What I would say in general is that legislatures probably 101 00:06:03.399 --> 00:06:07.720 are not the best body to try to ascertain a 102 00:06:07.839 --> 00:06:12.680 very technical determination, which was did fraud occur and how 103 00:06:12.720 --> 00:06:16.839 did it occur? You know, many members of legislators don't 104 00:06:16.839 --> 00:06:19.720 have that in their background, So it would be my 105 00:06:19.839 --> 00:06:23.079 preference that if it's going to be contested, that it 106 00:06:23.120 --> 00:06:28.600 gets contested in a venue where they can handle highly 107 00:06:28.639 --> 00:06:32.319 technical presentations and digest the facts. 108 00:06:32.600 --> 00:06:34.399 And our court system does that all the time. 109 00:06:34.480 --> 00:06:39.120 Legislatures typically don't. So that's just from a process perspective. 110 00:06:39.120 --> 00:06:43.959 That's kind of where I'm at in Georgia. There are 111 00:06:44.079 --> 00:06:48.519 three different data points that really helped document what really 112 00:06:48.560 --> 00:06:51.800 happened in Georgia, and I know that in a lot 113 00:06:51.839 --> 00:06:56.920 of conservative circles, Secretary of Raethlisberger is not well liked. 114 00:06:57.839 --> 00:07:01.959 But the data that he brought forward and can document, 115 00:07:02.040 --> 00:07:06.480 has documented and it's hard proof. He showed that about 116 00:07:06.519 --> 00:07:11.600 thirty thousand GOP presidential primary voters in Georgia in twenty 117 00:07:11.639 --> 00:07:16.439 twenty took a pass on the general election. Those are 118 00:07:16.560 --> 00:07:21.160 lost presidential votes for President Trump, and he lost by 119 00:07:21.360 --> 00:07:25.279 fewer than twelve thousand votes. Now, those thirty thousand votes 120 00:07:25.319 --> 00:07:29.279 were probably moderate Republicans call um Rhinos whatever you want 121 00:07:29.319 --> 00:07:31.720 to call him, who probably voted against Trump in the 122 00:07:31.720 --> 00:07:34.800 primary and then decided they couldn't they couldn't bear to 123 00:07:34.879 --> 00:07:38.040 vote in the general election. And there was another thirty 124 00:07:38.079 --> 00:07:42.600 thousand votes that Raefensberger brought forward and has the proof 125 00:07:42.639 --> 00:07:47.800 for that showed that the presidential selection was left blank, 126 00:07:48.199 --> 00:07:51.120 but all the down ticket Republicans received votes, and again 127 00:07:51.639 --> 00:07:55.120 that's a sort of symbolic protest votes by very likely 128 00:07:55.199 --> 00:08:00.519 middle of the road Republicans who liked down ticket but 129 00:08:00.680 --> 00:08:02.399 didn't like what was at the top of the ticket. 130 00:08:03.600 --> 00:08:08.920 And that's hard evidence to overcome. And there's really no 131 00:08:09.120 --> 00:08:13.560 credible fraud that you can look at that comes close 132 00:08:13.639 --> 00:08:18.040 to having the solidity of the numbers that Raffensberger brought 133 00:08:18.079 --> 00:08:23.879 forward that matches with my nationwide findings are and those 134 00:08:23.920 --> 00:08:27.360 are basically that Trump lost about two and a half 135 00:08:27.439 --> 00:08:31.759 percent support across the board everywhere in twenty twenty relative 136 00:08:31.800 --> 00:08:34.799 to twenty sixteen. And those are the rhinos. I'm pretty 137 00:08:34.840 --> 00:08:38.000 sure those are the rhinos who took a hike and left. 138 00:08:38.039 --> 00:08:40.120 It's not a lot of voters, but in a whisker 139 00:08:40.159 --> 00:08:42.639 close election, it was enough. 140 00:08:43.000 --> 00:08:45.399 Well, it's probably people who were not too happy with 141 00:08:45.440 --> 00:08:47.759 what had happened the first part of twenty twenty. Let 142 00:08:47.840 --> 00:08:50.240 me ask you, you know, with the lockdowns and things 143 00:08:50.279 --> 00:08:52.000 like that, that kind of soured a lot of us 144 00:08:52.399 --> 00:08:55.039 on what was going on. But let me ask you 145 00:08:55.080 --> 00:08:57.480 about the vote by mail thing, because that was a 146 00:08:57.519 --> 00:09:00.120 function of the lockdown as well, and we'd never do 147 00:09:00.320 --> 00:09:04.559 that before. How did you audit or how did you 148 00:09:04.679 --> 00:09:06.440 view the vote by mail stuff? 149 00:09:07.480 --> 00:09:13.879 So we looked at the mail ballots, not so much 150 00:09:14.000 --> 00:09:18.639 from the process of mail ballots, were their changes to 151 00:09:19.919 --> 00:09:22.240 rules made to allow mail ballots to be changed, how 152 00:09:22.240 --> 00:09:26.440 mail ballots were used. My role in looking at them 153 00:09:26.720 --> 00:09:31.519 was did we're dead votes cast by mail? Did people 154 00:09:31.559 --> 00:09:34.799 who voted by mail vote twice in two different places? 155 00:09:34.840 --> 00:09:37.200 It was the nature of what I was looking at 156 00:09:37.519 --> 00:09:38.600 was those sorts of things. 157 00:09:39.720 --> 00:09:39.919 You know. 158 00:09:40.120 --> 00:09:43.840 It was really a remarkable period of time in a 159 00:09:43.840 --> 00:09:47.080 lot of different ways. And and honestly, I think maybe 160 00:09:47.159 --> 00:09:51.639 had the had we not had COVID, I actually believe 161 00:09:51.679 --> 00:09:54.519 there was a better than even money chance that President 162 00:09:54.519 --> 00:09:56.799 Trump would still be President Trump right now. I think 163 00:09:57.080 --> 00:10:02.200 COVID cost him dearly in this election action. Did mail 164 00:10:02.240 --> 00:10:06.279 ballot use tip the balance? I don't think so, because 165 00:10:06.279 --> 00:10:08.519 I think anybody who was motivated to vote would have 166 00:10:08.519 --> 00:10:11.000 figured out how to vote one way or the other. 167 00:10:12.159 --> 00:10:15.840 The presumption is, were mail ballots used for in some 168 00:10:16.120 --> 00:10:21.960 nefarious way to were's massive mail ballot fraud happening and 169 00:10:22.039 --> 00:10:24.759 I didn't see evidence of that. I mean, to commit 170 00:10:24.799 --> 00:10:27.559 mail ballot fraud, you're either going to steal someone's identity 171 00:10:28.519 --> 00:10:31.840 and vote as somebody else, or you're going to steal 172 00:10:31.960 --> 00:10:33.759 a deceased person's identity and do that. 173 00:10:33.799 --> 00:10:37.080 And we found a couple a dozen dead votes in 174 00:10:37.159 --> 00:10:38.320 most of the swing states. 175 00:10:39.200 --> 00:10:43.000 We found a couple one hundred duplicate votes across the 176 00:10:43.080 --> 00:10:46.200 swing states, and the campaign spared no expense on this. 177 00:10:46.279 --> 00:10:51.720 We exhaustively looked at every single mail ballot to ensure 178 00:10:51.799 --> 00:10:54.240 that the person in whose name that mail ballot was 179 00:10:54.279 --> 00:10:55.600 cast was among the living. 180 00:10:56.200 --> 00:10:59.320 So what did they do to cast about? Do they 181 00:10:59.320 --> 00:11:02.200 have to request it and is it mailed to them 182 00:11:02.320 --> 00:11:04.320 at an address or something? They just pick it up 183 00:11:04.360 --> 00:11:05.720 and then mail it in themselves. 184 00:11:05.960 --> 00:11:06.440 How did that So. 185 00:11:07.440 --> 00:11:10.200 What's really frustrating is it's different from state to state 186 00:11:10.240 --> 00:11:12.200 to state, and we're going to get into that down 187 00:11:12.200 --> 00:11:12.799 the line. 188 00:11:13.559 --> 00:11:15.919 In many states, you have to fill out a mail 189 00:11:15.919 --> 00:11:20.519 ballot application, mail it in, they verify your signature, and 190 00:11:20.559 --> 00:11:22.480 then when the time is right, they'll mail you a 191 00:11:22.519 --> 00:11:23.960 ballot that you then return. 192 00:11:24.320 --> 00:11:26.759 That's like the absentee ballot process that we've had for 193 00:11:26.759 --> 00:11:27.759 a very long time. 194 00:11:27.600 --> 00:11:30.360 Right right, Yeah, a few states and this goes this 195 00:11:30.440 --> 00:11:36.200 happened before. COVID states like California and Oregon and Colorado interestingly, 196 00:11:36.679 --> 00:11:37.600 have moved to. 197 00:11:39.360 --> 00:11:41.519 Entirely conducting their elections by mail. 198 00:11:42.399 --> 00:11:45.600 They send out mail ballots to everybody, and if you 199 00:11:45.639 --> 00:11:48.080 don't want to vote by mail, you have to take 200 00:11:48.159 --> 00:11:52.039 extraordinary actions to opt out of voting by mail and 201 00:11:52.120 --> 00:11:53.639 instead to vote in a different way. 202 00:11:54.519 --> 00:11:56.679 So we had a mix of those different things. 203 00:11:57.919 --> 00:12:01.600 Many states made voting by mail easy year in twenty twenty. 204 00:12:02.799 --> 00:12:04.879 The hardest state in the country to vote by mail 205 00:12:05.039 --> 00:12:08.120 is I believe it's Louisiana. 206 00:12:09.039 --> 00:12:13.399 That has a very strict usage in terms of who 207 00:12:13.399 --> 00:12:16.480 can use it and under what circumstances. 208 00:12:15.720 --> 00:12:20.360 So it's all over the map. I didn't see any 209 00:12:21.480 --> 00:12:27.440 artisan slant to the mail ballot fraud that we did find. 210 00:12:28.240 --> 00:12:33.159 It was pretty evenly divided by Democrats, Republicans, independents, and 211 00:12:33.200 --> 00:12:35.480 that's been the case of all the voter fraud I've 212 00:12:35.480 --> 00:12:41.519 documented over the years. I have yet to find a 213 00:12:41.559 --> 00:12:44.600 form of voter fraud where when it happens, it's just 214 00:12:44.679 --> 00:12:46.120 sort of a bipartisan activity. 215 00:12:47.399 --> 00:12:51.279 How would you audit a situation to find out if 216 00:12:51.440 --> 00:12:54.039 somebody was voting for dead person? And I asked, because 217 00:12:55.519 --> 00:12:58.320 a friend of my brother in laws in twenty twelve 218 00:12:58.320 --> 00:13:00.919 in North Carolina, they have at least at that time, 219 00:13:00.919 --> 00:13:03.759 they had the longest voting period of any state, and 220 00:13:04.000 --> 00:13:07.360 there was no picture ID, so you could just walk 221 00:13:07.399 --> 00:13:11.279 in and give them. You could vote early, and when 222 00:13:11.320 --> 00:13:13.360 you went to vote, you just give them a name 223 00:13:13.480 --> 00:13:15.879 and address. And there was no validation of that with 224 00:13:16.279 --> 00:13:21.080 even a driver's license. And so on election day, this 225 00:13:21.200 --> 00:13:25.480 friend of my brothers brother in law goes in and 226 00:13:25.840 --> 00:13:27.600 to regually gives them his name and address. And he said, 227 00:13:27.600 --> 00:13:29.440 you've already voted, and so is this other person that 228 00:13:29.480 --> 00:13:31.200 you're address And he said, well, that's my mom. She's 229 00:13:31.200 --> 00:13:34.519 been dead for several years. So how do you audit 230 00:13:34.679 --> 00:13:40.279 that to know if that is happening in Georgia for example. 231 00:13:41.320 --> 00:13:45.759 Well, so in twenty twenty, the Trump campaign had us 232 00:13:45.840 --> 00:13:50.600 process every single mail ballot voter in the Swing States. 233 00:13:50.639 --> 00:13:52.200 There was about thirty one million of them. 234 00:13:52.360 --> 00:13:52.639 Wow. 235 00:13:52.720 --> 00:13:57.080 We process them through a data vendor who matches up 236 00:13:57.600 --> 00:14:00.960 the voter with their social Security number, and then using 237 00:14:00.960 --> 00:14:03.840 the social security number, you can look at something called 238 00:14:03.879 --> 00:14:07.960 the Social Security Death Master File, which is the Social 239 00:14:07.919 --> 00:14:11.879 Security Administration tracks everybody who dies. So we used that 240 00:14:12.000 --> 00:14:16.200 mechanism thirty one million times for every mail ballot that 241 00:14:16.320 --> 00:14:16.720 was cast. 242 00:14:16.960 --> 00:14:17.600 What did you find? 243 00:14:17.639 --> 00:14:17.960 Election? 244 00:14:19.159 --> 00:14:21.960 Like, I said, you know, we found a coup at 245 00:14:22.080 --> 00:14:26.279 most a couple a dozen in each swing state, not 246 00:14:26.440 --> 00:14:30.279 nearly enough to matter. I did predict, as I had 247 00:14:30.279 --> 00:14:34.200 done an analysis in Pennsylvania about a month before the election. 248 00:14:34.320 --> 00:14:38.679 I found a couple of recently registered dead voters, and 249 00:14:38.759 --> 00:14:41.159 I predicted that those would become mail ballot fraud and 250 00:14:41.440 --> 00:14:41.840 they did. 251 00:14:42.120 --> 00:14:42.440 Yeah. 252 00:14:42.559 --> 00:14:47.679 Yeah, Now, you you did your research, You presented your 253 00:14:47.879 --> 00:14:51.720 findings to the Trump campaign and who had hired you, 254 00:14:51.799 --> 00:14:55.440 to their attorneys, and you also reported to Mark Meadows 255 00:14:55.559 --> 00:14:57.120 all of your results. Is that correct? 256 00:14:58.120 --> 00:14:58.360 Yeah? 257 00:14:58.399 --> 00:15:00.360 So I didn't speak directly to Mark Meadow, was the 258 00:15:01.320 --> 00:15:04.879 lawyer who hired me and who basically was my point 259 00:15:04.960 --> 00:15:11.919 person throughout this whole thing. Alex Cannon. The basic premise 260 00:15:11.960 --> 00:15:13.480 of what I did with two different things. I looked 261 00:15:13.519 --> 00:15:16.759 for duplicate votes, I looked for dead voters, and then 262 00:15:16.799 --> 00:15:21.200 the campaign used my company to help vet every claim 263 00:15:21.200 --> 00:15:23.240 of voter fraud that came their way. And there were 264 00:15:23.279 --> 00:15:28.000 a lot of them from outside of the campaign asking 265 00:15:28.039 --> 00:15:30.120 He asked us to vet them determine whether they were 266 00:15:30.159 --> 00:15:34.039 true or not before they would consider taking those claims 267 00:15:34.080 --> 00:15:37.399 into court. So they were operating in a very careful, 268 00:15:37.440 --> 00:15:41.360 methodical way. They asked us to review about twenty different 269 00:15:41.440 --> 00:15:44.399 claims of fraud. Some of them came in through folks 270 00:15:44.519 --> 00:15:50.080 like Sidney Powell and John Eastman. Others came through academics, 271 00:15:50.440 --> 00:15:53.480 just random people out there who did their own research. 272 00:15:54.360 --> 00:15:56.840 And every one of the twenty different claims that we 273 00:15:56.919 --> 00:15:59.840 looked at, we were able to show why it was wrong. 274 00:16:01.399 --> 00:16:04.240 When we wrapped things up towards the end of November, 275 00:16:04.879 --> 00:16:08.279 Canon took the summation of everything that we had done 276 00:16:08.840 --> 00:16:12.159 and went to Mark Meadows and told Meadows that when 277 00:16:12.159 --> 00:16:14.799 it came to voter fraud, we looked pretty exhaustively at it. 278 00:16:15.480 --> 00:16:17.519 All the claims we looked at were false and we 279 00:16:17.559 --> 00:16:20.879 couldn't find enough voter fraud to have changed the outcome 280 00:16:20.919 --> 00:16:21.519 in any election. 281 00:16:22.000 --> 00:16:24.200 And when did when was that presented? What was the 282 00:16:24.279 --> 00:16:26.600 date that roughly that you presented that stuff? 283 00:16:27.240 --> 00:16:31.559 Well, so I didn't do a presentation to anybody. 284 00:16:31.600 --> 00:16:34.039 Every one of the claims I looked at had its 285 00:16:34.039 --> 00:16:37.879 own email and documentation, and all that landed on Cannon's desk. 286 00:16:38.279 --> 00:16:41.919 Canon took that all together and went and talked to Meadows, 287 00:16:42.000 --> 00:16:46.519 I believe, right at the end of November, and gave 288 00:16:46.559 --> 00:16:47.919 him the summation of everything. 289 00:16:48.039 --> 00:16:51.159 Okay, all right, And so it was December the fourteenth 290 00:16:51.279 --> 00:16:55.600 that the electoral colleges, you know, the people that were 291 00:16:55.759 --> 00:16:58.440 selected the elector the site of electors from each party 292 00:16:58.440 --> 00:17:03.559 that had won, submitted their votes on December fourteenth. January 293 00:17:03.600 --> 00:17:06.960 the sixth was a formal acceptance of all that stuff. 294 00:17:06.960 --> 00:17:10.160 But everybody presented that stuff on December fourteenth, so they 295 00:17:10.240 --> 00:17:13.880 knew the end of November. They knew a couple of 296 00:17:13.880 --> 00:17:18.559 weeks before the electoral college voted, and then again about 297 00:17:18.559 --> 00:17:24.519 another about I guess six weeks or so before the 298 00:17:24.640 --> 00:17:27.440 January the sixth thing they had those results in. What 299 00:17:27.519 --> 00:17:29.960 did you think about the stop the Steel stuff. You 300 00:17:30.079 --> 00:17:34.079 mentioned that that you debunked fraud claims while I was 301 00:17:34.119 --> 00:17:37.359 advancing to stop the Steel initiative. Tell us a little 302 00:17:37.359 --> 00:17:37.839 bit about that. 303 00:17:39.400 --> 00:17:40.279 Yeah, I mean, so. 304 00:17:42.039 --> 00:17:45.440 As I looked at everything, I wasn't aware usually of 305 00:17:45.480 --> 00:17:46.759 where the claims came from. 306 00:17:46.759 --> 00:17:48.960 I was able to piece a lot of it together afterwards. 307 00:17:50.359 --> 00:17:54.880 So you know, from the Sydney Pwell John Eastman perspective, 308 00:17:55.480 --> 00:17:59.359 I didn't know that the claims that I found were false, 309 00:17:59.359 --> 00:18:03.200 that they brought came from them until about a year ago. 310 00:18:03.240 --> 00:18:04.039 Really, so. 311 00:18:05.680 --> 00:18:09.240 It's you know, the whole problem would stop the steal 312 00:18:09.519 --> 00:18:14.160 and with a lot of So many people believe firmly 313 00:18:14.279 --> 00:18:18.000 that the election was stolen, but that belief is based 314 00:18:18.039 --> 00:18:20.960 upon a set of facts that's at best. 315 00:18:20.759 --> 00:18:24.079 Really really squishy, right. What I mean by that is. 316 00:18:25.039 --> 00:18:28.640 The facts on which the claims are being made that 317 00:18:28.720 --> 00:18:32.079 everybody is grabbing onto it says it was stolen can't 318 00:18:32.319 --> 00:18:35.359 possibly ever stand up in court, usually for a really 319 00:18:35.359 --> 00:18:39.039 basic reason, because that reason is it's more usually it's 320 00:18:39.079 --> 00:18:43.920 hearsay evidence. What I mean by that, hearsay is often 321 00:18:43.920 --> 00:18:46.880 defined as he said, she said type stuff, right, And 322 00:18:46.920 --> 00:18:49.759 our courts don't allow that kind of evidence on which 323 00:18:49.799 --> 00:18:55.920 to convict somebody because someone can easily be lying about 324 00:18:55.920 --> 00:18:59.400 that right. The court systems want to see fact based 325 00:18:59.440 --> 00:19:03.640 evidence that can be double and triple checked, you know, 326 00:19:03.759 --> 00:19:07.400 hard facts. Sure, and most of most of the evidence 327 00:19:07.400 --> 00:19:10.319 that people are being presented as evidence that the election 328 00:19:10.440 --> 00:19:12.839 was stolen is squishy evidence. 329 00:19:12.880 --> 00:19:15.279 It's not the kind of evidence that you could take 330 00:19:15.319 --> 00:19:16.039 to court and win. 331 00:19:16.920 --> 00:19:20.599 And that, to me is really something that I have 332 00:19:20.680 --> 00:19:22.119 a problem with because you. 333 00:19:22.039 --> 00:19:23.480 Know, I'm a data guy. 334 00:19:23.559 --> 00:19:27.599 I take data to court, and my data survives legal scrutiny, right, 335 00:19:27.640 --> 00:19:32.160 So if you can't find data that survives legal scrutiny, 336 00:19:32.240 --> 00:19:35.440 I think it's sketchy to start bringing forward data that 337 00:19:35.519 --> 00:19:40.160 can't and then using that information to really get people 338 00:19:40.240 --> 00:19:42.680 amped up about what happened in our election. 339 00:19:42.960 --> 00:19:46.599 I do not believe that. 340 00:19:46.519 --> 00:19:49.160 The election was stolen. I believe that the election in 341 00:19:49.240 --> 00:19:51.079 twenty twenty was lost. 342 00:19:51.359 --> 00:19:53.960 I was very skeptical of it from the very beginning. Actually, 343 00:19:54.039 --> 00:19:56.119 you know, when I worked at info Wars, I had 344 00:19:56.119 --> 00:19:59.440 a show there and two days after the election, Steve 345 00:19:59.599 --> 00:20:02.519 Chennick came on and said that there had that it 346 00:20:02.559 --> 00:20:05.599 was a sting, that they had blockchain watermark ballots that 347 00:20:05.640 --> 00:20:08.480 had somehow come out of the federal government at some 348 00:20:08.480 --> 00:20:13.319 central location. But the key thing that was obviously disprovable 349 00:20:13.680 --> 00:20:15.319 was he said, two days after the election, so we 350 00:20:15.359 --> 00:20:17.599 got twenty thousand National Guard that are out there resting 351 00:20:17.640 --> 00:20:21.839 these people who rig the election. Now, that obviously was true, 352 00:20:21.880 --> 00:20:24.359 and that wasn't going to go down that path. So 353 00:20:24.559 --> 00:20:26.480 we had all kinds of stuff, but it was so 354 00:20:26.640 --> 00:20:31.440 many people. Even weeks after that, when there was absolutely 355 00:20:31.440 --> 00:20:34.200 no evidence of any National Guard troops or any arrests 356 00:20:34.279 --> 00:20:35.839 or whatever, they were still pushing that. So I can 357 00:20:35.880 --> 00:20:38.640 imagine that somebody saying, yeah, we got pictures of or 358 00:20:38.680 --> 00:20:41.279 I know personally about somebody's stuff in a ballot box. 359 00:20:42.680 --> 00:20:44.720 That's going to be much more believable than the other 360 00:20:44.759 --> 00:20:48.279 stuff that people were fighting about and willing to go 361 00:20:48.359 --> 00:20:51.039 to the mat to say, yes, there is some secret 362 00:20:51.079 --> 00:20:54.599 war that is going on, maybe in Germany, maybe some 363 00:20:54.680 --> 00:20:57.279 places in the United States where people are actually, you know, 364 00:20:57.359 --> 00:20:59.920 fighting and going to war over this. It really was. 365 00:21:00.000 --> 00:21:02.599 It's a strange situation. One more thing I'd like to 366 00:21:02.640 --> 00:21:05.440 talk about before we start talking about how to reform 367 00:21:05.559 --> 00:21:08.759 this stuff, and that is the exit polls, which have 368 00:21:08.960 --> 00:21:13.359 kind of come in to play again with this Venezuelan election. 369 00:21:13.440 --> 00:21:16.759 The State Department has always used Edison Research, which is 370 00:21:16.880 --> 00:21:20.680 the exit polling organization here in the United States, and 371 00:21:21.119 --> 00:21:23.759 they say that and they use them in other countries 372 00:21:23.799 --> 00:21:26.319 as well, and they say that if the difference between 373 00:21:26.480 --> 00:21:30.359 Edison researches exit polls and the official results are more 374 00:21:30.440 --> 00:21:35.079 than five points away from each other. That looks like 375 00:21:35.119 --> 00:21:38.559 it's a rigged election. Now it's just one particular company, 376 00:21:38.599 --> 00:21:41.000 and of course that company can be rigged as well. 377 00:21:41.319 --> 00:21:43.680 We don't know about their integrity, but it is the 378 00:21:43.720 --> 00:21:46.000 company that is used for the exit polls by all 379 00:21:46.039 --> 00:21:49.319 of the media organizations in the United States. They typically 380 00:21:49.359 --> 00:21:51.960 don't give us. I've never seen them give us a 381 00:21:52.000 --> 00:21:54.599 total and say, well, here's what they say the total is, 382 00:21:55.279 --> 00:21:57.799 and compare that to what the reported votes were. They'll 383 00:21:57.799 --> 00:22:01.000 give you demographic cross tabulations, how many men or how 384 00:22:01.000 --> 00:22:03.559 many women, or this or that voted for this candidate. 385 00:22:03.880 --> 00:22:07.839 But was there ever any talk about looking at the 386 00:22:07.839 --> 00:22:09.640 exit polls anything about that. 387 00:22:10.640 --> 00:22:15.000 So I didn't know it at the time, but I 388 00:22:15.079 --> 00:22:16.759 learned of this about a year and a half ago. 389 00:22:17.680 --> 00:22:23.559 The Trump campaign commissioned their top polster to conduct exit 390 00:22:23.599 --> 00:22:27.079 polls in the twenty twenty election in the Swing States. 391 00:22:27.119 --> 00:22:31.640 That pollster's name is Tony Fabrizio. And just to be 392 00:22:31.680 --> 00:22:35.519 fully transparent, I'm a two time candidate for governor here 393 00:22:35.559 --> 00:22:39.000 in Rhode Island, and in my run in twenty fourteen 394 00:22:39.000 --> 00:22:42.400 as a Republican, Fabrizio was my pollster as well, so 395 00:22:42.400 --> 00:22:44.759 I just like to put that out there because I'm 396 00:22:44.799 --> 00:22:46.720 talking about him, and I just didn't want to. 397 00:22:46.640 --> 00:22:47.920 Do that without disclosing that. 398 00:22:48.920 --> 00:22:54.880 Fabrizio conducted a thirty thousand interview exit poll across all 399 00:22:54.880 --> 00:22:59.319 the swing states, and he created an internal campaign document 400 00:22:59.359 --> 00:23:02.640 that leaked, and that document made its way to politico 401 00:23:02.720 --> 00:23:05.319