Speaker 1: It only takes a moment, one turn around, a bend,
Speaker 1: one step just a little too far ahead, and suddenly
Speaker 1: the person you were just walking beside is gone. In
Speaker 1: the open expanse of the desert, where visibility stretches for
Speaker 1: miles and silence carries farther than sound, you wouldn't expect
Speaker 1: someone to simply disappear. But in July of twenty nineteen,
Speaker 1: that's exactly what happened. I'm Megan, I'm Danielle, and this
Speaker 1: is off the trails, all right, Well, before we get
Speaker 1: into the episode, is there anything Do we have anything?
Speaker 2: I do not. I don't either, other than welcome kits
Speaker 2: for newer Patreon members are out, so watch your mailboxes.
Speaker 2: I guess I think USPS takes forever to get things
Speaker 2: to people lately. I've just been keeping track of things
Speaker 2: at work wise, so hopefully you get it in two
Speaker 2: to three weeks.
Speaker 1: Is the post office lacking?
Speaker 2: It seems like it. It's taking things like an average
Speaker 2: of like ten days to get places like it took
Speaker 2: eight days to go to a town fifteen minutes away.
Speaker 1: That is insane.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I don't know what the deal is with that.
Speaker 2: But if you don't have them in like three weeks
Speaker 2: let me know, but hopefully it's like two weeks with tops.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. Yeah, that's bad all right. Well, aside
Speaker 1: from that then I think we can get into it. Yes, okay.
Speaker 1: So Barbara Thomas was sixty nine years old, a grandmother,
Speaker 1: a wife, and someone who found comfort in the quiet
Speaker 1: beauty of the desert. She stood five foot nine inches tall,
Speaker 1: with blonde hair and green eyes, and she lived with
Speaker 1: her husband, Robert or Bob, in Bullhead City, Arizona. By
Speaker 1: all accounts, Barbara and Bob were familiar with the desert
Speaker 1: and so this wasn't really new territory for them. They
Speaker 1: enjoyed the outdoors and had even explored the area before,
Speaker 1: understood the terrain, and were comfortable navigating its vastness. So
Speaker 1: when they set out on Friday, July twelfth of twenty
Speaker 1: nineteen for a casual day trip in their camper, nothing
Speaker 1: about it seemed unusual. At some point that afternoon, roughly
Speaker 1: twenty miles or about thirty two kilometers north of Interstate
Speaker 1: forty in just east of Kelbaker Road, the couple decided
Speaker 1: to pull over. They planned to take a short hike
Speaker 1: about two miles round trip or roughly three point two
Speaker 1: kilometers to check out some nearby rock formations. And it
Speaker 1: was just supposed to be quick and easy. It just
Speaker 1: kind of little, you know, pit.
Speaker 2: The side quest.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, However, it would become anything but so. The
Speaker 1: Mojave Desert stretches across parts of California, Nevada, Arizona, and Utah,
Speaker 1: covering an immense fifty four thousand square miles or about
Speaker 1: one hundred and forty thousand square kilometers. To the west,
Speaker 1: the Sierra Nevada Mountains form a natural barrier, and to
Speaker 1: the south and east, the Mojave gradually blends into the
Speaker 1: Sonoran Desert, and within its boundaries lies one of the
Speaker 1: most unforgiving places on Earth. Can you guess what it is?
Speaker 2: Death Valley?
Speaker 1: Yes? Correct. The Mojave is perhaps also best known for
Speaker 1: the Joshua tree, which is an iconic, almost otherworldly plant
Speaker 1: that doesn't naturally grow anywhere else in the world.
Speaker 2: I didn't know that it was endemic to that area.
Speaker 1: Yeah. But as beautiful as the desert can be, it
Speaker 1: can also be deceptively dangerous. Winters here can be bitterly cold,
Speaker 1: with strong winds that cut across the open terrain, while summers,
Speaker 1: on the other hand, routinely climb into triple digit temperatures
Speaker 1: well above one hundred degrees fahrenheit or thirty eight degrees
Speaker 1: celsius and oftentimes higher. But it's not just the heat,
Speaker 1: because the desert is home to a range of potentially
Speaker 1: dangerous wildlife as well, mahave green rattlesnakes, sidewinders, arizona bark, scorpions,
Speaker 1: black widows, spiders, coyotes, and even mountain lions. But more
Speaker 1: often than not, the greatest threat isn't what's hiding in
Speaker 1: the sand or the rocks. It's the environment itself. The heat,
Speaker 1: the dehydration, the disorientation that can creep in faster than
Speaker 1: you expect, and sometimes the vastness. So what looks like
Speaker 1: a short walk somewhere like here can quickly turned into
Speaker 1: something much more serious. So back to July twelfth, when
Speaker 1: Barbera and Bob sat out on their hike. They brought
Speaker 1: a backpack, some beer and a gallon of water.
Speaker 2: All right, and a beer would be my choice for
Speaker 2: the desert, but that's okay.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I feel like a beer sounds nice at
Speaker 1: the end of a hike. But not during yeah, and
Speaker 1: not that kind of heat.
Speaker 2: I just like when I was like twenty five accidentally,
Speaker 2: just like was in the sun all day, which is
Speaker 2: which is not my thing and never has been my thing,
Speaker 2: a drinking bud light lime, and I was just so dehydrated.
Speaker 2: And I probably have felt like the worst after that
Speaker 2: day of having like a couple beers on a hot
Speaker 2: day than having you know, six drinks and yeah, yep, yeah,
Speaker 2: any hydration get you, Yes, it does.
Speaker 1: So while they had this backpack, Barbara herself wasn't carrying anything.
Speaker 1: She was just wearing a bikini, hiking boots and a hat.
Speaker 2: Iconic.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, And agreed, while that is very iconic, and I
Speaker 1: love her for this, I also want her to have
Speaker 1: her own pack with some just some basic supplies and
Speaker 1: I mean water and snacks.
Speaker 2: And yes, that attire is perfect for drinking bud lightline
Speaker 2: in your backyard, yes absolutely, or setting up your lawn
Speaker 2: chair outside of your camper with a beer like exactly.
Speaker 1: But she didn't have a cell phone, she didn't have
Speaker 1: any extra water, no gear, and despite the heat, they
Speaker 1: just you know, went on there, went on their stroll
Speaker 1: to look at these rock formations.
Speaker 2: Any idea how long they expected to be out, like was,
Speaker 2: were these formations far from where they were parked or
Speaker 2: just no, from what I could find, they didn't expect
Speaker 2: it to be.
Speaker 1: More than like two miles like at and back. Okay,
Speaker 1: So I don't know if it's an actual trail they
Speaker 1: were on or you know, it's the desert, so make
Speaker 1: your own trail, right, right, Yeah, But I don't think
Speaker 1: they expected to be gone long at all. And given
Speaker 1: that they were from Arizona, you know they are we
Speaker 1: can assume very familiar with the heat. They're familiar with
Speaker 1: just the Southwest region in general and that type of
Speaker 1: climate and terrain. So this probably they probably were very
Speaker 1: confident going out to do what they were doing and
Speaker 1: how long they planned to be there with what they had.
Speaker 2: Right, I think living in Arizona you probably have to
Speaker 2: have a higher heat tolerance than I pause, so probably
Speaker 2: I would last five minutes out and that.
Speaker 1: Heat, yes, yeah, And I mean I think the heat
Speaker 1: and the sun are they kind of work against each
Speaker 1: other in the sense of because it's so hot, you
Speaker 1: would think the less layers the better, But to protect
Speaker 1: you from the sun and from that like direct exposure,
Speaker 1: you really need the layers. So whenever you see people
Speaker 1: hiking in like high heat areas and they have like
Speaker 1: the long sleeves, the large hats, the pants, it seems counterintuitive,
Speaker 1: but it actually, of course makes the most sense.
Speaker 2: Several summer hoodies. And people give me a hard time
Speaker 2: when I walk at lunchtime at work and I have
Speaker 2: like my hood up, But it's uv protection.
Speaker 1: It's not because.
Speaker 2: I'm cold when trying to keep the sun off of
Speaker 2: all of me if possible.
Speaker 1: Yes, and that's that's the right thing to do. At
Speaker 1: around two thirty pm, the couple began making their way
Speaker 1: back to the camper, and at some point along the way,
Speaker 1: Barbara started walking ahead of Bob, and he later said
Speaker 1: that he had stopped briefly to take a photo of
Speaker 1: one of the rocks out there, and as he was
Speaker 1: putting his camera away, he saw that Barbara had rounded
Speaker 1: a corner like just ahead of him, out of sight.
Speaker 1: But it wasn't unusual. He didn't think anything of it,
Speaker 1: just that she was a little bit further ahead of him. However,
Speaker 1: what he didn't know is that it would also be
Speaker 1: the last time that he would ever see her. When
Speaker 1: Bob reached that same corner. Moments later, she wasn't back
Speaker 1: in sight, but again he wasn't panicking yet. He just
Speaker 1: assumed that she had gotten further ahead and was maybe
Speaker 1: at the camper waiting for him. You know, just nothing.
Speaker 2: Concerning, Right, is this terrain where they were in particular?
Speaker 2: Like are there a lot of boulders or rocks or like,
Speaker 2: I guess I'm trying to picture how you get out
Speaker 2: of sight quickly.
Speaker 1: In the desert.
Speaker 2: Right, that has like a lot of like low growing
Speaker 2: vegetation and kind of typically that's about it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so it so because we only sort of have
Speaker 1: an approximate placement of where they were, it looks like
Speaker 1: this area does have just some you know, larger boulders
Speaker 1: or rocks that someone could be behind or near. And
Speaker 1: like you said, it is lighter vegetation, so it's not
Speaker 1: it's not like dense by any means where they are.
Speaker 1: But I also don't know exactly where they were, right,
Speaker 1: do you know of any like potential obstructions that they
Speaker 1: that could have been between them? Okay, soh yeah, he
Speaker 1: had assumed that she had just you know, made her
Speaker 1: way back to the camper and he would just meet
Speaker 1: her there. But when he got there, That's when he
Speaker 1: immediately became worried because she wasn't outside the camper waiting
Speaker 1: for him. The camper door was locked, and so of
Speaker 1: course she wasn't inside it either, and she was nowhere
Speaker 1: to be found. Almost immediately, you know, he started calling
Speaker 1: out her name. He started looking everywhere for her around
Speaker 1: the area, listening for anything, trying to find any movement,
Speaker 1: but there was nothing, no sign of where she may
Speaker 1: have gone. So he called nine one one, and authorities
Speaker 1: arrived shortly after, and what followed would just be a
Speaker 1: pretty comprehensive search effort. There were sheriff's deputies, search and
Speaker 1: rescue teams, fire personnel, park rangers, canine units, and a helicopter. So,
Speaker 1: I mean, you have everyone, everyone coming in and she
Speaker 1: was so close to him that you would think in
Speaker 1: that short amount of time she couldn't have gotten far
Speaker 1: from there.
Speaker 2: Right, It's not like they were on their way to
Speaker 2: their destination. Well, I guess you're always on your way
Speaker 2: to a destination. It's not like they were heading away
Speaker 2: from the camper, right where the possibilities of where you
Speaker 2: might end up are significantly more. But it sounds like
Speaker 2: they're pretty close to the camper.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and they had just they had pulled off of
Speaker 1: that road, so where they had parked the camper, you
Speaker 1: actually needed to cross the street to get back to it.
Speaker 1: So there was also a road that would be.
Speaker 2: A landmark.
Speaker 1: Yes, thank you, there it is. So, you know, teams
Speaker 1: combed the surrounding terrain on foot and they had the
Speaker 1: aerial support the dogs, which you know, you would think
Speaker 1: like dogs would pick up a send pretty quickly. There
Speaker 1: wasn't any rain or anything that would potentially compromise that
Speaker 1: part of the search. But days passed with no leads.
Speaker 1: She just vanished. On Wednesday, July seventeenth, off road vehicles
Speaker 1: were brought in to expand the search area, covering ground
Speaker 1: that was too difficult to access on foot. Then on
Speaker 1: July twentieth and twenty first specialized teams joined the effort,
Speaker 1: and these individuals were certified in cave searches, rope climbing,
Speaker 1: and desert terrain. Ground hikers were among the search and
Speaker 1: rescue members. So they were bringing in every type of
Speaker 1: skill set possible to aid in this search. But they
Speaker 1: couldn't find footprints. They didn't find you know, clothing, blood,
Speaker 1: no sign of a struggle, no indication of where she
Speaker 1: had gone. She had just disappeared. On July twenty second,
Speaker 1: authorities announced that Bob was being looked at as a suspect.
Speaker 2: Which in these situations does make sense. It's seemingly obviously
Speaker 2: he was the last person to see her. Typically in
Speaker 2: I think any situation, your partner is the most likely culprit.
Speaker 2: And I'm sure where he said. He called very quickly
Speaker 2: and a search got underway pretty quickly in a known area.
Speaker 1: I'm sure they're like, Okay, she should be here, exactly,
Speaker 1: isn't she? Yeah, this does not make any sense. And
Speaker 1: as you said, I mean, it's understandable for them to
Speaker 1: look at him. I think if any two people were
Speaker 1: anywhere together and one goes missing, you have to look
Speaker 1: at that other person and question the version of events
Speaker 1: that they've told you. But definitely, and of course Bob
Speaker 1: made tained his innocence, and he actually offered his own theory, saying,
Speaker 1: I feel like someone did pick her up because she
Speaker 1: was wearing a bikini, she had a beer in her hand,
Speaker 1: she was ahead of me, and she had to cross
Speaker 1: that road. He believed that someone passing through that sort
Speaker 1: of remote stretch of the desert had taken her, but
Speaker 1: investigators were not convinced. They had Bob take a polygraph test,
Speaker 1: and the results showed indications of deception. Still, polygraphs are
Speaker 1: far from fool proof, and Bob stood firm in his
Speaker 1: denial of having anything to do with his wife's disappearance,
Speaker 1: and he later attributed the results to sleep deprivation at
Speaker 1: the time of the test. Also, it's a high stress scenario,
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, sleep deprivation aside, let's assume that
Speaker 1: he is, you know, not responsible for it, and the
Speaker 1: amount of like just panic going on, the stress, like
Speaker 1: there's so many things happening in your body. How could
Speaker 1: it not impact the test results?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I always I mean, obviously we've talked about polygraphs before.
Speaker 1: But I don't know.
Speaker 2: I think if you are stressed enough or sleep deprived,
Speaker 2: anxious enough, Yeah, I could probably possibly fail a polygraph
Speaker 2: about you know, like what I did yesterday, just because
Speaker 2: it's a stressful situation, even just being tested sitting there
Speaker 2: with police or investigators.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that, And that's exactly right, Like you
Speaker 1: could be called in to take a test right now,
Speaker 1: not that you're under suspicion for anything. But if a
Speaker 1: if any authority figure is asking you questions like where
Speaker 1: we're yesterday, Oh, what time was that at? Oh are
Speaker 1: you sure that you know you're recalling that correctly? What
Speaker 1: was this person wearing? And that's that's intimidating.
Speaker 2: Gets stressed out at the drive theorem ordering like a
Speaker 2: coffee or something, and they're like, do you want an
Speaker 2: iced or hot? And I'm like, I don't know, you
Speaker 2: tell me.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 2: It's always iced, but you know, I think, yeah, I
Speaker 2: think we always have to takee with the grain of salt.
Speaker 2: But I would not be surprised if in the next
Speaker 2: few years science phases those out all together, just because
Speaker 2: there's so many other factors.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree. So Barbara's family also didn't believe that
Speaker 1: she had simply wandered off, and the source that I
Speaker 1: saw this from says that her family was from Hong Kong.
Speaker 1: So I don't know if they lived there or from
Speaker 1: there or okay, but it they just sort of just said,
Speaker 1: like collectively, her family in Hong Kong didn't believe she
Speaker 1: had simply wandered off.
Speaker 2: Okay, they how about it? Sorry, do you know how
Speaker 2: long they had been married?
Speaker 1: No? And I was going to touch on that toward
Speaker 1: the end of the episode. There was not really there's
Speaker 1: like virtually no background information.
Speaker 2: Okay, I mean not that necessarily matters. Obviously, we've heard
Speaker 2: of cases where a partner or a spouse does something
Speaker 2: horrible to their you know, their newlyweds and they've been
Speaker 2: married a week. But then we've also heard of situations
Speaker 2: where it's been thirty five years and something happens. It
Speaker 2: doesn't necessarily matter, but I was just curious.
Speaker 1: Absolutely it does. You know, whenever we've said this before,
Speaker 1: where it is nice to get a sort of picture
Speaker 1: of this person we're talking about that we're not we
Speaker 1: can expand beyond the incident that we're covering and actually
Speaker 1: sort of get to know them a little bit more
Speaker 1: as just the person outside of the incident, and so
Speaker 1: getting that context of you know, not to invade anyone's privacy,
Speaker 1: of course, but just whenever there is a little bit
Speaker 1: of information like where they're from, what they like to do,
Speaker 1: maybe what they did for work, and what other people
Speaker 1: said about them, it's just nice to bring that information
Speaker 1: to light as well.
Speaker 2: Yeah, brought in the scope a bit.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so her family said that the chances she became
Speaker 1: lost or disoriented in the five minutes before her husband
Speaker 1: between her husband reporting last seeing her and him realizing
Speaker 1: she was missing is highly improbable. Barbara does not have
Speaker 1: a history of any illness that we know of. We
Speaker 1: have no reason to believe Barbara would walk away from
Speaker 1: her husband or disappear in the manner.
Speaker 2: That she has.
Speaker 1: The case was eventually taken over by the Specialized Investigations Division,
Speaker 1: but they weren't able to you know, find any new
Speaker 1: leads or evidence either. Eighteen months passed, there was you know,
Speaker 1: it was a year and a half of uncertainty, questions
Speaker 1: and just waiting. Then on November twenty seventh of twenty
Speaker 1: twenty two, people hiking in a field off kel Baker
Speaker 1: Road made a discovery human remains. The following day, on
Speaker 1: the twenty eighth, authorities conducted a more extensive search of
Speaker 1: the area, recovering additional bones and evidence. Those remains were
Speaker 1: later positively identified as Barbara. However, her cause of death
Speaker 1: has remained pending, or at least not disclosed. So many
Speaker 1: of the questions surrounding her disappearance have also remained unanswered.
Speaker 2: So far, was this from where she originally witnesssing.
Speaker 1: That's a great question. They did not. It's so I
Speaker 1: have an overhead view of kel Baker Road. So it's
Speaker 1: essentially there are two main roads that run like east
Speaker 1: to west that are sort of like they run parallel
Speaker 1: with each other, and where they were this kel Baker Road.
Speaker 1: It's sort of like this scenic side road if you will,
Speaker 1: that runs north to south between these two roads. So
Speaker 1: there is a stop and star of kel Baker Road.
Speaker 1: So it can only be in in you know, like
Speaker 1: a limited space. But they're still miles and miles of it.
Speaker 1: And although I was able to find where they were
Speaker 1: based on the sources saying that they had parked about
Speaker 1: twenty off of the road from Interstate forty, I think
Speaker 1: it is so we know where that is. But when
Speaker 1: they talk about the remains, all they say is cal
Speaker 1: Baker Road, so literally anywhere Crivis Road. Okay, not helpful, no,
Speaker 1: And I know we've brought this up before when remains
Speaker 1: are found, and they're very, very vague with where they're found.
Speaker 2: Which is understandable for a variety of reasons.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, but it also leaves that question for us who
Speaker 1: have not that we they owe us anything, but you
Speaker 1: know what. It would be helpful to know where she
Speaker 1: was found in relation to where she went missing.
Speaker 2: I think it can give a lot of indication as
Speaker 2: to if she got there on foot on her own
Speaker 2: while the search was going on, or if she was
Speaker 2: taken there in a vehicle or ended up there at
Speaker 2: a later point.
Speaker 1: Right, knowing that that road is there and knowing that
Speaker 1: it's sandwiched between these two major roads tells me like, well,
Speaker 1: she obviously never made it to the road and wouldn't
Speaker 1: and didn't find her way back to the road, because
Speaker 1: that's something where you would just sort of, I would think,
Speaker 1: hang out near and hope to see a car and
Speaker 1: be like, just it's either sitting you know, by the
Speaker 1: road or wander the desert, which one sounds like a
Speaker 1: better outcome.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: So, there are, of course a few theories and possibilities
Speaker 1: as to what may have happened to Barbara. It's possible
Speaker 1: she became disoriented in the heat. You know. Of course,
Speaker 1: even experienced hikers can underestimate how quickly dehydration and extreme
Speaker 1: temperatures can affect the body, Especially without adequate water or protection.
Speaker 1: In triple digit heat, the human body can begin to
Speaker 1: shut down far faster than most people realize, and she
Speaker 1: didn't have really anything that was helping her combat that
Speaker 1: heat and that direct exposure, because.
Speaker 2: I'm sure even that gallon of water they had, I
Speaker 2: would assume probably pretty depleted by that point. And it
Speaker 2: sounds like Bob was carrying anything they had anyway.
Speaker 1: Yeah, she just had, as he said, beer, a beer
Speaker 1: and bikini.
Speaker 2: There's no pockets and bikinis.
Speaker 1: No, no, they're not. It's possible she attempted to take
Speaker 1: a short cut back to the camper and lost her bearings.
Speaker 1: You know, in the desert, terrain can look deceptively similar
Speaker 1: in every direction. It doesn't take much to veer off course.
Speaker 1: There's a highly unlikely theory that she encountered a wild animal.
Speaker 1: The desert is home to, you know, some of the
Speaker 1: some predators like coyotes and mountain lions, and you know
Speaker 1: the some venomous snakes and the Arizona bark scorpion. But
Speaker 1: and you know, an attack earning ca counter isn't impossible,
Speaker 1: it's just highly improbable in this case.
Speaker 2: And obviously those smaller creatures a snake, a scorpion, they
Speaker 2: would not have relocated her in any way. A mata
Speaker 2: lion probably could take a human elsewhere. Coyote possibly as well.
Speaker 2: But if you get bit by a snake, they're not
Speaker 2: packing you up to go.
Speaker 1: That is true. That would be horrifying if it did.
Speaker 1: And as we've discussed before, you know, any type of
Speaker 1: animal attacks almost always leave behind evidence their tracks, disturbed ground, blood,
Speaker 1: torn clothing, and despite an extensive search and even involving
Speaker 1: the canine units and trained teams, none of those signs
Speaker 1: were found. If she had been bitten by a snake
Speaker 1: or stung by a scorpion, she likely would have been
Speaker 1: located within the search radius. After succumbing to her injuries,
Speaker 1: Barbara had only been out of sight for a matter
Speaker 1: of making it even less likely that such an encounter
Speaker 1: could have occurred without leaving any trace. So there's really
Speaker 1: no evidence to support any animal involvement. There's the theory
Speaker 1: that Bob suggested that someone may have encountered her and
Speaker 1: picked her up. While the area is remote, they did
Speaker 1: have to cross that road to get back to their
Speaker 1: parked camper. And then there's the lingering suspicion that investigators
Speaker 1: initially had, though no charges were ever brought against him,
Speaker 1: but some people have also pointed to this theory online,
Speaker 1: questioning whether Bob's account fully adds up, and noting how
Speaker 1: difficult it is to verify what happened when no one
Speaker 1: else was there to witness it. Some speculate that the
Speaker 1: disappearance may not have been accidental at all, but the
Speaker 1: result of foul play. However, it's important to emphasize that
Speaker 1: this remains pure speculation. Of course, no charges were filed
Speaker 1: and no definitive evidence has been made public to support
Speaker 1: that conclusion. But I also understand why some people have
Speaker 1: fully ruled that out. You know, the timeline is entirely
Speaker 1: what he's provided, the events are entirely what he's provided.
Speaker 1: But you know, I think all we can assume unless
Speaker 1: evidence comes to light, is that this man's wife went missing,
Speaker 1: and now you know, she's been confirmed as deceased, and
Speaker 1: he has to, you know, mourn.
Speaker 2: That would I mean, it sounds like they were again
Speaker 2: in very close proximity, so I would Obviously it's a speculation,
Speaker 2: but I would think if someone had stopped to get
Speaker 2: her in a vehicle, and she was not looking to
Speaker 2: get into a vehicle, you would think that Bob would
Speaker 2: have been within a distance that he could have overheard
Speaker 2: a scream or her calling for help or something of
Speaker 2: that nature, if that had happened.
Speaker 1: I agree, Yeah, if she had come across anything or
Speaker 1: anyone that meant her harm, there would be some sort
Speaker 1: of like audible indication of that to Bob to where
Speaker 1: he could, you know, at least know something was going
Speaker 1: on that shouldn't be going on. I also thought it
Speaker 1: was strange that that's what I was going to touch on,
Speaker 1: is I looked for an obituary online, you know, since
Speaker 1: she has been confirmed, as you know, unfortunately dying out there.
Speaker 1: But there's there was there's really not anything on it.
Speaker 1: So of course that's entirely at the family's discretion and
Speaker 1: we can respect that. But yeah, I was just hoping
Speaker 1: to learn a little bit more about her.
Speaker 2: You know that I spent a lot of time reading obituaries, Yeah,
Speaker 2: for no good reason. But yeah, I guess it's tricky though,
Speaker 2: because you know, some families at some point put out
Speaker 2: an obituary when it's presumed that this person has died
Speaker 2: and they may or may not be found, But then
Speaker 2: other families hold out hope and don't put one out. Yes,
Speaker 2: I guess it's tricky when someone is found at a
Speaker 2: later time. I mean, obviously, like you said, it's at
Speaker 2: the family's discussion. You can put one out if it's
Speaker 2: five years after they disappeared or five months, or however
Speaker 2: you want to do it. But yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2: That's interesting. Again, nothing, it means anything either way.
Speaker 1: But so, regardless of the exact circumstances, Barbara's story highlights
Speaker 1: something important, and that is the desert can be very unforgiving.
Speaker 1: Even short hikes, especially short hikes, can create a false
Speaker 1: sense of security. Carrying enough water for each individual, not
Speaker 1: just as a group, is critical. A gallon may sound
Speaker 1: like a lot, but in extreme heat, it can disappear quickly.
Speaker 1: Lightweight clothing might feel comfortable, but it offers little protection
Speaker 1: from sun exposure. And perhaps most importantly, stay within sight
Speaker 1: of your hiking partner can make all the difference, because
Speaker 1: sometimes all it takes is a single moment out of
Speaker 1: you and everything changes. Barbara set out on what should
Speaker 1: have been a simple, familiar hike, but somewhere between that
Speaker 1: rock formation and the camper waiting just ahead, she disappeared,
Speaker 1: and while her remains were eventually found, the full story
Speaker 1: of what happened to her in those final moments may
Speaker 1: never be known.
Speaker 2: I think we all need to live by the saying
Speaker 2: that my sister in law tells her kids that I
Speaker 2: have now stolen. Can't see you, can't save you.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I like that, you know, because it's valid. If you know,
Speaker 2: kids wander offrom a store, something happens, so she can't
Speaker 2: see them, she can't do anything. If you're outside, it's
Speaker 2: the same. Can't see you, can't save you, can't help you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean, this is just an awful situation,
Speaker 1: you know, just a fun little pit stop to go
Speaker 1: for a little you know, walk and look at the
Speaker 1: look at the landscape and all of that, and and
Speaker 1: you know, unfortunately only one made it back alive from it.
Speaker 1: And that's just absolutely awful for everyone involved in her
Speaker 1: loved ones. And yeah, you can never be too careful.
Speaker 2: No, Yeah, I'll be curious if there's ever a cause
Speaker 2: of death released or any more information that comes out.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So that's uh, that's it for today. Thanks for listening,