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<v Speaker 1>Welcome back to the Pathway Chili.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm Robin, I'm Jules.

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<v Speaker 3>And I'm Ashley. Let's dive right into this week's case.

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<v Speaker 2>October twenty fourth, nineteen fifty three, Lacrosse, Wisconsin. The father

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<v Speaker 2>of fifteen year old Evelyn Hartley attempts to phone her

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<v Speaker 2>while she's babysitting an infant child, but receives no answer.

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<v Speaker 2>After traveling to the house, he discovers that Evelyn has disappeared,

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<v Speaker 2>and the evidence suggests that she was the victim of

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<v Speaker 2>a violent abduction by an intruder. Days later, blood stained clothing,

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<v Speaker 2>including women's undergarments, a denim jacket, and a pair of

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<v Speaker 2>tennis shoes are discovered miles away and believed to be

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<v Speaker 2>connected to the case. Over the years, there would be

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<v Speaker 2>a number of potential suspects and the discovery of a

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<v Speaker 2>tape recorded confession to the crime, and the discovery of

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<v Speaker 2>a tape recorded confession to the crime, but Evelyn Hartley

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<v Speaker 2>is never found.

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<v Speaker 1>After that, the path went chilly. So today we'll be

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<v Speaker 1>covering a frightening missing person's case which took place over

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<v Speaker 1>seventy years ago. The nineteen fifty three disappearance of Evelyn Hartley.

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<v Speaker 1>I originally covered it on The Trail Went Cold in

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<v Speaker 1>October of twenty eighteen as one of our Halloween themed episodes.

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<v Speaker 1>As the circumstances of how Evelyn Hartley went missing are

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<v Speaker 1>like something out of a horror movie. The idea of

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<v Speaker 1>a teenage girl being terrorized while babysitting is a popular

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<v Speaker 1>trope in a number of horror stories, including John Carpenter's

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<v Speaker 1>nineteen seventy eight classic Halloween, where Jamie Lee Curtis's character

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<v Speaker 1>is talked by the mass slasher Michael Myers during a

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<v Speaker 1>babysitting job on Halloween night. Today's episode is almost like

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<v Speaker 1>a real life version of this, as it involves a

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<v Speaker 1>fifteen year old girl named Evelyn Hartley disappearing from the

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<v Speaker 1>home of a family friend while she was looking after

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<v Speaker 1>their infant daughter. There was a lot of evidence to

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<v Speaker 1>indicate that Evelyn was the victim of a violent abduction

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<v Speaker 1>by an intruder, and some bloodstained clothing, some of which

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<v Speaker 1>was believed to belong to Evelyn, would later be found

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<v Speaker 1>miles away from the residence. Over the years, there would

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<v Speaker 1>be a number of interesting developments in this case, including

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<v Speaker 1>the suspected involvement of one of the most infamous murderers

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<v Speaker 1>of all time, ed Geen, who is the alleged real

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<v Speaker 1>life inspiration for a number of hiconic horror movie villains.

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<v Speaker 1>But when all is said and done, Evelyn is still

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<v Speaker 1>a missing person and we don't know who is responsible

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<v Speaker 1>for her disappearance.

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<v Speaker 3>Here's what's wild about this is that Evelyn was at

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<v Speaker 3>a friend's home babysitting their child. So it's almost as

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<v Speaker 3>if that home was either a pre arranged target in

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<v Speaker 3>Evelyn happened to be there, or it was a crime

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<v Speaker 3>of opportunity where someone watched Evelyn or knew that Evelyn

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<v Speaker 3>was going to this house, happened to see a young

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<v Speaker 3>girl walk in and the parents leave, and then they

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<v Speaker 3>acted on whatever they did to Evelyn. It's just wild

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<v Speaker 3>because there's a million other places she could have been

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<v Speaker 3>that night, and yet she's at a friend's home babysitting

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<v Speaker 3>in this little child and never comes home.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, even after all these years, there's still a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of ambiguity about whether Evelyn was specifically targeted or if

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<v Speaker 1>someone just happened to see her babysitting alone or another

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<v Speaker 1>babysitter usually did that job so at that house, So

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<v Speaker 1>maybe she was targeted or something, and they have gone

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<v Speaker 1>over a couple potential suspects over the years, but none

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<v Speaker 1>of them seem to have a close personal connection to Evelyn,

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<v Speaker 1>so we really don't know what the motive was for

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<v Speaker 1>this crime and if she was just targeted at random.

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<v Speaker 2>Our story begins in Lacrosse, Wisconsin, in nineteen fifty three.

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<v Speaker 2>Our central figure is fifteen year old Evelyn Hartley, who

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<v Speaker 2>lives with her parents, Richard and Ethel Hartley. Evelyn is

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<v Speaker 2>one of four children in the family, though she lost

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<v Speaker 2>a brother to polio years earlier. The Hartleys moved to

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<v Speaker 2>Lacrosse from Charleston, Illinois in nineteen fifty and Richard works

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<v Speaker 2>as a biology professor at Lacrosse State College. Evelyn is

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<v Speaker 2>a junior at Central High School and is considered to

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<v Speaker 2>be an excellent honor student with a straight A average.

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<v Speaker 2>On the evening of Saturday, October twenty fourth, Evelyn was

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<v Speaker 2>picked up at her home by Vigo Rasmussen, a coworker

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<v Speaker 2>of her fathers who worked as a physics professor at

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<v Speaker 2>Lacrosse State College. Vigo, his wife, and seven year old

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<v Speaker 2>daughter were all planning to attend the college's homecoming football game,

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<v Speaker 2>which was always a huge deal in the town, and

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<v Speaker 2>they needed a babysitter to watch over their twenty month

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<v Speaker 2>old infant daughter, Janice. They had a regular babysitter named

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<v Speaker 2>Janis Cowley, which she would also be attending the game

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<v Speaker 2>that night, so the Rasmussens asked Evelyn if she would

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<v Speaker 2>take the job instead. Evelyn agreed, and this would be

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<v Speaker 2>her first babysitting job in three months. After being picked

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<v Speaker 2>up by Vigo at six thirty pm, Evelyn was taken

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<v Speaker 2>to the Rasmusen home. The house was located in a

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<v Speaker 2>new subdivision on Bachelor Drive and the Rasmusans had only

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<v Speaker 2>lived there for three months. Evelyn lived about a mile

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<v Speaker 2>and a half away and told her parents that she

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<v Speaker 2>would phone them at eight thirty pm to check in.

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<v Speaker 2>She was told to put Janis to bed at seven

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<v Speaker 2>p m. And since the child was going to be

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<v Speaker 2>sleeping most of the evening, Evelyn brought several school books

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<v Speaker 2>along with her to spend time studying. The Rasmusans then

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<v Speaker 2>left to attend the game while Evelyn remained alone with

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<v Speaker 2>their daughter. However, eight thirty came and went, and the

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<v Speaker 2>Hartleys did not receive their scheduled phone call from Evelyn.

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<v Speaker 2>Richard Hartley tried calling the Rasmussen home multiple times but

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<v Speaker 2>received no answer, and even tried calling neighbors of the

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<v Speaker 2>Rasmusans to check if they had seen her. After not

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<v Speaker 2>hearing from Evelyn, Richard decided to go check on his daughter.

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<v Speaker 2>He arrived at the resmuse in residence at around nine

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<v Speaker 2>to twenty and discovered the front door was locked. The

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<v Speaker 2>lights inside of the house were still on, but even

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<v Speaker 2>after Richard repeatedly knocked, rang the doorbell and shouted for Evelyn,

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<v Speaker 2>no one answered. Since the living room window had no curtains,

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<v Speaker 2>Richard decided to peek inside and was very concerned when

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<v Speaker 2>he noticed that Evelyn's school books were scattered around the floor,

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<v Speaker 2>along with one of her shoes at her eyeglasses, which

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<v Speaker 2>were now broken.

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<v Speaker 3>My god, I can't even imagine as a parent, when

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<v Speaker 3>you're sitting there and you have an expectation that your

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<v Speaker 3>little girl's only a mile and a half away. She's

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<v Speaker 3>babysitting for family friends that you know, and there's a plan.

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<v Speaker 3>She's going to put the baby down around eight point thirty.

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<v Speaker 3>She's going to go ahead and check in with mom

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<v Speaker 3>and dad. And it's just such a typical scenario. She's

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<v Speaker 3>even brought her books so she can read and study.

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<v Speaker 3>And Dad knows and has got something's wrong. My daughter

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<v Speaker 3>would have called, she would have answered my calls, something

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<v Speaker 3>would have occurred in the kind of her normal routine.

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<v Speaker 3>And yet everything seems wrong in his gut, and he

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<v Speaker 3>gets over there and sees truly a horror scene. His

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<v Speaker 3>daughter's not there, she's not answering, and her books are

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<v Speaker 3>scattered you said one shoes there, and her eyeglasses, which

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<v Speaker 3>are broken, are there, So there's a clear sign that

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<v Speaker 3>she didn't leave willingly, didn't walk outside. She's not down

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<v Speaker 3>the street somewhere. Something happened to her. And then he's

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<v Speaker 3>left standing in this in this house, wondering where's the

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<v Speaker 3>child and where's my baby?

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<v Speaker 1>And you also have to remember this is back in

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<v Speaker 1>the nineteen fifties, and as far as I know, Lacrosse

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<v Speaker 1>was not known for being a town with a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of violent crime. So this sort of thing just didn't happen.

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<v Speaker 1>It's not something that'd experienced. They always had this feeling

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<v Speaker 1>this is a safe ay And if we leave, like

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<v Speaker 1>our teenage daughter to baby sits someone alone, then nothing's

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<v Speaker 1>going to happen to her. But then her father arrives

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<v Speaker 1>and realizes that he has entered his worst nightmare. So

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<v Speaker 1>Rachel desperately tried to enter the house, but found that

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<v Speaker 1>most of the doors and windows were locked. However, when

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<v Speaker 1>he went around back, he discovered the basement window was

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<v Speaker 1>opened and that the screen had been removed and was

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<v Speaker 1>now leaning up against the outside wall. Richard decided to

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<v Speaker 1>enter the dark basement through the window and turned on

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<v Speaker 1>the lights. A step ladder, which the ras Musans had

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<v Speaker 1>been using to paint the basement, was next to the window,

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<v Speaker 1>and Richard noticed that Evelyn's second shoe was at the

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<v Speaker 1>bottom of the stairs. He went upstairs into the living

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<v Speaker 1>room and noticed that the radio was still playing. In

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<v Speaker 1>addition to Evelyn's items being scattered across the floor, the

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<v Speaker 1>furniture had been disarranged, so all indications were that a

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<v Speaker 1>violent struggle had taken place. Thankfully, baby Janis was discovered

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<v Speaker 1>to be sleeping unharmed in her crib. The child was

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<v Speaker 1>not covered by her blanket, even though the ras Musans

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<v Speaker 1>had given Evelyn instructions to cover Janet at seven fifteen pm,

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<v Speaker 1>so the scene to indicate that Evelyn went missing shortly

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<v Speaker 1>after she put the child to bed at seven o'clock.

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<v Speaker 1>Richard quickly went to a neighbor and asked him to

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<v Speaker 1>phone the police. When they arrived, they found additional evidence

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<v Speaker 1>that an intruder had entered the house in abducted Evelyn.

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<v Speaker 1>Other windows were discovered to have pride marks from a

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<v Speaker 1>screwdriver on them, so the intruder had likely tried to

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<v Speaker 1>break in elsewhere before entering through the basement. A set

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<v Speaker 1>of footprints made by a pair of sneakers were found

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<v Speaker 1>in a flower bed near the basement window, and there

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<v Speaker 1>were also dirty footprints in the living room rug. But

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<v Speaker 1>most disturbingly, there were two pools of blood found outside

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<v Speaker 1>the house. One of them was located in the Rasmussen's

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<v Speaker 1>yard near the basement window, while the other was about

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<v Speaker 1>one hundred feet away next to a neighbor's garage. If

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<v Speaker 1>that wasn't enough, a bloody palm print was also on

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<v Speaker 1>the garage's wall, and additional blood stains were discovered on

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<v Speaker 1>the side of another neighbor's house. Testing would eventually show

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<v Speaker 1>that all this blood was type A, which matched Evelyn's

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<v Speaker 1>blood type. Red cloth fibers were also found in some

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<v Speaker 1>of the blood, and Evelyn was wearing red pants at

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<v Speaker 1>the time she disappeared. It was theorized at while being

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<v Speaker 1>dragged through the yard by or Abdu, Evelyn had either

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<v Speaker 1>rested or fallen on the ground to create the pools

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<v Speaker 1>of blood. Tracking dogs would follow Evelyn sent through the

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<v Speaker 1>backyard and pass some neighbours' homes to an adjacent street

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<v Speaker 1>called Cooley Drive. The scent then abruptly came to an end,

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<v Speaker 1>suggesting that Evelyn may have been placed inside a vehicle

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<v Speaker 1>and driven away.

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<v Speaker 3>So it seems like the whoever this intruder was apprehends

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<v Speaker 3>her and restrains her and is forcing her out of

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<v Speaker 3>this home, maybe through the basement where he came in.

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<v Speaker 3>And it doesn't appear that there's been an injury necessarily

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<v Speaker 3>that would cause her to bleed until she gets outside

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<v Speaker 3>the house.

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<v Speaker 1>Is that correct? Yeah, they didn't really find any traces

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<v Speaker 1>of blood indoors. It was only on the outside, so

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<v Speaker 1>for all we know, maybe she cut herself on the

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<v Speaker 1>window or something like that.

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<v Speaker 3>I was going to say, either that, or right when

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<v Speaker 3>she gets outside, she tries to flee him, or you know,

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<v Speaker 3>causes a commotion and he hits her or you know,

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<v Speaker 3>cuts her or something like that, and that's where the

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<v Speaker 3>blood starts. But it's really bizarre because even like tracing

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<v Speaker 3>her and tramping her back down through the basement and out,

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<v Speaker 3>why not just leave through the back door or another

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<v Speaker 3>place it would be easier to get her out of

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<v Speaker 3>than in and out of a basement window or a

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<v Speaker 3>basement out, you know, outage. It just seems very bizarre.

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<v Speaker 3>And also as much as you know Type A did

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<v Speaker 3>match Evelynce blood, it'd be interesting. It's possible the offender

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<v Speaker 3>also was a Type A back in the fifties. How

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<v Speaker 3>would they know how to distinguish if there were two

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<v Speaker 3>you know sources at the time.

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<v Speaker 2>They wouldn't if they were both Type A?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, yeah, correct. There was no DNA testing in

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<v Speaker 1>the fifties, and I know that a lot of the

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<v Speaker 1>evidence in this case has since been lost, so I

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<v Speaker 1>don't know if they have any of this evidence still

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<v Speaker 1>available to do DNA testing.

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<v Speaker 2>Do we know the layout of the house, like if

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<v Speaker 2>the perpetrator or perpetrators would have taken Evelyn out the

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<v Speaker 2>front door or the back door, Like was this a

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<v Speaker 2>well lit area where they really close to neighbors? Was

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<v Speaker 2>it sort of like the best option was to go

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<v Speaker 2>through the basement because maybe the path out was too

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<v Speaker 2>a backyard and it was like the least obvious to neighbors.

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<v Speaker 1>That's what I'm thinking that maybe they figured there's just

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<v Speaker 1>too much open space near the front, like a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of houses closed together. So if we try to take

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<v Speaker 1>Evelyn out through the front, someone is going to see her,

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<v Speaker 1>and if she screams, then it's gonna get a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of attention. And like we mentioned earlier, like the front

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<v Speaker 1>window of the living room did not even have any curtains,

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<v Speaker 1>so for all we know, maybe a lot of the

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<v Speaker 1>other houses had open windows where they could see out

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<v Speaker 1>into the street. And so maybe the perpetrator or perpetrators

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<v Speaker 1>thought that we have a better chance of getting away

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<v Speaker 1>with this if we take Evelyn out through the back.

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<v Speaker 2>It wasn't long before a number of eyewitnesses would report

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<v Speaker 2>strange occurrences in the neighborhood that night. Neighbors are called

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<v Speaker 2>hearing screams sometime between seven and seven fifteen pm, but

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<v Speaker 2>assumed it was nothing more than children playing. Given the timeframe,

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<v Speaker 2>it seemed likely that the screams were connected to Evelyn's disappearance.

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<v Speaker 2>Another witness also remembered seeing a light colored tan sedan

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<v Speaker 2>circling the neighborhood at least three times at around eight

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<v Speaker 2>p m. But the most interesting eyewitness account came from

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<v Speaker 2>a man named Ed Hoffer, and in order to protect

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<v Speaker 2>his identity, the original newspaper articles about the case simply

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<v Speaker 2>refer to him as mister X. At around seven fifteen,

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<v Speaker 2>Hoffer was picking up his brother in law at his house,

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<v Speaker 2>which was located one block from the Rasmusen residence. He

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<v Speaker 2>claimed he saw two men and a girl staggering down

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<v Speaker 2>the street in the distance, next to the same house

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<v Speaker 2>where blood stains were later found. It was too dark

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<v Speaker 2>to get a good look at them, and Hoffer just

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<v Speaker 2>assumed that it was people who'd been drinking to celebrate

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<v Speaker 2>the homecoming game. A few minutes later, Hoffer and his

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<v Speaker 2>brother in law were driving away when they almost ran

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<v Speaker 2>into a two toned green nineteen forty one or nineteen

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<v Speaker 2>forty two Bewick, which was speeding westward. The car was

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<v Speaker 2>being driven by a man, and Hoffer also saw a

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<v Speaker 2>second man sitting in the back alongside a girl who

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<v Speaker 2>had her head slumped forward. After learning about Evelyn's abduction,

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<v Speaker 2>these incidents suddenly took on more significance for Hoffer, and

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<v Speaker 2>he contacted the police. As far as anyone can tell,

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<v Speaker 2>nothing appeared to have been stolen from the Rasmusen home,

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<v Speaker 2>which seemed to go against the idea that she was

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<v Speaker 2>abducted during an attempted burglary. Needless to say, Evelyn's disappearance

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<v Speaker 2>would launch one of the largest missing person's investigations in

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<v Speaker 2>the history of Wisconsin, as over two thousand people volunteered

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00:14:31.120 --> 00:14:35.279
<v Speaker 2>to participate in the search for her. Her disappearance terrified

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00:14:35.320 --> 00:14:38.679
<v Speaker 2>the community so much that a ten pm curfew was

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<v Speaker 2>implemented for teenagers. Investigators launched a unique vehicle inspection program

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<v Speaker 2>in order to search every car in the county. If

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<v Speaker 2>a car was inspected and ruled out as having any

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<v Speaker 2>connection to Evelyn's abduction, it would be given a sticker

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<v Speaker 2>which read my car is okay. Gas station attendants were

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<v Speaker 2>also told to be on the lookout for any car

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<v Speaker 2>which had bloodstains and report them. Recently, Doug Graves were

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00:15:04.240 --> 00:15:06.960
<v Speaker 2>also checked to see if perhaps someone had placed Evelyn's

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00:15:06.960 --> 00:15:11.720
<v Speaker 2>body inside there. In the years following Evelyn's disappearance, investigators

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00:15:11.759 --> 00:15:16.080
<v Speaker 2>would question over thirty five hundred potential suspects, but failed

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<v Speaker 2>to turn up any promising leads. One of the most

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<v Speaker 2>unusual aspects of the investigation occurred in May of nineteen

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<v Speaker 2>fifty four, when the biggest massed liide detector tests in

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<v Speaker 2>the history of criminal investigation took place. It was decided

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<v Speaker 2>that all of the male students and faculty of each

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<v Speaker 2>high school in the area, approximately one thousand, seven hundred

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<v Speaker 2>and fifty people in total, would be questioned about Evelyn's

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00:15:42.200 --> 00:15:46.080
<v Speaker 2>disappearance while taking a polygraph. About three hundred people were

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00:15:46.120 --> 00:15:49.799
<v Speaker 2>tested before the school board intervened in forced law enforcement

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<v Speaker 2>to bring the whole thing to a halt.

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<v Speaker 3>Wow, so they pulled out all the stops to try

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<v Speaker 3>to help find Evelyn. What's horrifying is when you listen

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<v Speaker 3>to quote mister X or mister Hoffer's explanation, that really

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00:16:04.799 --> 00:16:07.360
<v Speaker 3>fits what we were talking about with where she was

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00:16:07.399 --> 00:16:11.120
<v Speaker 3>probably injured and having to be helped to the car.

295
00:16:12.200 --> 00:16:14.399
<v Speaker 3>To me, it sounds like she's forced out of the house.

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<v Speaker 3>It is very probable that two people would make that

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00:16:17.720 --> 00:16:20.320
<v Speaker 3>a heck of a lot easier to get her to comply,

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<v Speaker 3>But once she's out, something occurs where one of them

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00:16:24.840 --> 00:16:28.600
<v Speaker 3>stabs her, hits her to a point where now she's

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00:16:28.879 --> 00:16:33.080
<v Speaker 3>actually struggling to walk on her own. She might be

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00:16:33.200 --> 00:16:36.120
<v Speaker 3>weak or I'm not alert right because of a head

302
00:16:36.159 --> 00:16:38.879
<v Speaker 3>injury or something like that. So when you see those

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00:16:38.879 --> 00:16:41.600
<v Speaker 3>two men and a girl staggering down the street in

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00:16:41.679 --> 00:16:45.440
<v Speaker 3>that same area where we believe they could have taken her,

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00:16:46.080 --> 00:16:49.919
<v Speaker 3>it's horrifying. Like I can't imagine being a witness that says, Okay,

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00:16:49.960 --> 00:16:53.360
<v Speaker 3>I saw this incident. It's homecoming, it's a drunk party,

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00:16:54.080 --> 00:16:57.000
<v Speaker 3>and then very shortly later you rewind that in your

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00:16:57.039 --> 00:16:59.360
<v Speaker 3>head and you say, oh, my gosh, I think I

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00:16:59.360 --> 00:17:03.039
<v Speaker 3>saw that poor girl in the car. And the way

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00:17:03.080 --> 00:17:05.759
<v Speaker 3>he described them in the car, one person driving and

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<v Speaker 3>one next to her in the back seat, you would

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00:17:08.680 --> 00:17:11.480
<v Speaker 3>think if you apprehended somebody and there were two of you,

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00:17:11.480 --> 00:17:13.960
<v Speaker 3>you would definitely keep somebody with her in the back

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00:17:14.000 --> 00:17:16.160
<v Speaker 3>seat and not both of you in the front. So

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00:17:17.079 --> 00:17:18.119
<v Speaker 3>absolutely horrifying.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And that eyewitness account seemed to confirm what a

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00:17:21.160 --> 00:17:24.079
<v Speaker 1>lot of people speculated right away that multiple people were

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00:17:24.119 --> 00:17:26.799
<v Speaker 1>involved in Evelyn's abduction, because it would have been really

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00:17:26.839 --> 00:17:29.319
<v Speaker 1>difficult for just one person to bring her down into

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00:17:29.319 --> 00:17:32.920
<v Speaker 1>the basement and force her outside the window into the

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00:17:32.920 --> 00:17:36.519
<v Speaker 1>backyard without assistance. So that's why it's been theorized that

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00:17:36.599 --> 00:17:39.079
<v Speaker 1>maybe one person abducted her in the house while the

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00:17:39.279 --> 00:17:42.200
<v Speaker 1>second person stood as a lookout outside the window and

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00:17:42.279 --> 00:17:47.880
<v Speaker 1>helped drag her outside. On October the twenty seventh, three

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00:17:48.000 --> 00:17:51.440
<v Speaker 1>days after Evelyn went missing, a pair of women's underpants

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00:17:51.519 --> 00:17:54.319
<v Speaker 1>and a brazier, both staying with blood, were found two

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<v Speaker 1>miles south of Lacrosse near the underpass of Highway fourteen.

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<v Speaker 1>Interestingly enough, this particular area had been searched one day beforehand,

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00:18:02.720 --> 00:18:06.279
<v Speaker 1>but the undergarments were not there, leading the speculation that

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00:18:06.400 --> 00:18:08.880
<v Speaker 1>someone drove through the area and tossed them outside a

331
00:18:08.920 --> 00:18:12.720
<v Speaker 1>moving vehicle. The undergarments appeared to be Evelyn's size, and

332
00:18:12.759 --> 00:18:15.839
<v Speaker 1>the blood was type A. A blood stained pair of

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00:18:15.880 --> 00:18:18.519
<v Speaker 1>men's pants were also found four miles away along the

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00:18:18.519 --> 00:18:21.079
<v Speaker 1>same road, though it can never be established if they

335
00:18:21.079 --> 00:18:24.559
<v Speaker 1>were connected to the case. On Halloween, a pair of

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00:18:24.640 --> 00:18:28.279
<v Speaker 1>size eleven good Rich brand tennis shoes were discovered alongside

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00:18:28.400 --> 00:18:32.319
<v Speaker 1>Highway fourteen near the village of Coon Valley, fourteen miles

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00:18:32.400 --> 00:18:35.720
<v Speaker 1>southeast of Lacrosse. About eight hundred feet away from the

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00:18:35.759 --> 00:18:39.039
<v Speaker 1>shoes was a size thirty six blue denim jacket, and

340
00:18:39.119 --> 00:18:43.319
<v Speaker 1>both items had Type A bloodstains on them. Investigators felt

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00:18:43.319 --> 00:18:45.480
<v Speaker 1>there was a good chance the tennis shoes belonged to

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00:18:45.480 --> 00:18:48.920
<v Speaker 1>Evelyn's abductor, as their souls seemed to match the footprints

343
00:18:48.920 --> 00:18:53.079
<v Speaker 1>found at the Rasmusen home. This prompted investigators to check

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00:18:53.079 --> 00:18:56.000
<v Speaker 1>with Goodrich to learn everything they could about this particular

345
00:18:56.039 --> 00:18:59.880
<v Speaker 1>brand of shoes. The brand was called Hood Mogul and

346
00:19:00.079 --> 00:19:04.279
<v Speaker 1>sold in Wisconsin, Iowa, Michigan, Minnesota, and Illinois, though they

347
00:19:04.279 --> 00:19:06.920
<v Speaker 1>had not been sold in Wisconsin for at least three years.

348
00:19:07.839 --> 00:19:11.039
<v Speaker 1>The shoes had a distinctive circular wear pattern on the soles,

349
00:19:11.200 --> 00:19:14.000
<v Speaker 1>which suggested that their owner may have frequently rode a

350
00:19:14.039 --> 00:19:17.839
<v Speaker 1>whizzard motorbike. There was also a hair found inside one

351
00:19:17.839 --> 00:19:20.039
<v Speaker 1>of the shoes which may have belonged to an African

352
00:19:20.039 --> 00:19:22.480
<v Speaker 1>American male, though I'm not sure if they were able

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00:19:22.480 --> 00:19:26.039
<v Speaker 1>to conclusively establish that. It was also believed that the

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00:19:26.079 --> 00:19:29.440
<v Speaker 1>Denham jacket belonged to the person who kidnapped Evelyn, as

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00:19:29.559 --> 00:19:32.400
<v Speaker 1>were blood smears found at the rasmuse In residence which

356
00:19:32.440 --> 00:19:35.519
<v Speaker 1>seemed to have been made with cloth with Denham characteristics.

357
00:19:36.519 --> 00:19:41.119
<v Speaker 1>The jacket contained The jacket contained faded spots underneath both armpits,

358
00:19:41.359 --> 00:19:43.920
<v Speaker 1>which appeared to have been caused by a safety harness

359
00:19:44.200 --> 00:19:48.079
<v Speaker 1>commonly worn by people who worked as steeplejacks, which involved

360
00:19:48.079 --> 00:19:52.400
<v Speaker 1>scaling high structures such as steeples and chimneys to repair them.

361
00:19:52.680 --> 00:19:55.200
<v Speaker 1>Investigators were able to track down a local man who

362
00:19:55.279 --> 00:19:59.599
<v Speaker 1>had manufactured safety harnesses for two steeplejacks the previous year,

363
00:20:00.119 --> 00:20:02.000
<v Speaker 1>but all he remembered about them is that they were

364
00:20:02.039 --> 00:20:05.519
<v Speaker 1>young and possibly from the area. It was believed that

365
00:20:05.559 --> 00:20:07.799
<v Speaker 1>the jacket was too small to have been worn by

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00:20:07.839 --> 00:20:11.079
<v Speaker 1>someone who wore size eleven shoes, but this also lent

367
00:20:11.200 --> 00:20:13.880
<v Speaker 1>credence to the idea that two perpetrators may have been

368
00:20:13.920 --> 00:20:18.039
<v Speaker 1>involved in Evelyn's abduction. Investigators would bring the shoes and

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00:20:18.160 --> 00:20:20.880
<v Speaker 1>jacket to thirty one different communities and put them on

370
00:20:20.920 --> 00:20:24.119
<v Speaker 1>display for thousands of people, but no one recognized them

371
00:20:24.160 --> 00:20:25.880
<v Speaker 1>and it failed to generate any leads.

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00:20:27.000 --> 00:20:29.920
<v Speaker 3>What's interesting is it's almost as if someone was watching

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00:20:30.119 --> 00:20:35.640
<v Speaker 3>the either media coverage, police movements, things like that, and

374
00:20:36.119 --> 00:20:40.240
<v Speaker 3>that's when they start dumping these items along Highway fourteen. Because,

375
00:20:40.279 --> 00:20:42.720
<v Speaker 3>like you said, at one point there was a particular

376
00:20:42.759 --> 00:20:46.720
<v Speaker 3>area that had been searched already and then these bloody

377
00:20:46.759 --> 00:20:50.039
<v Speaker 3>items appear there, and it's as if they were in

378
00:20:50.079 --> 00:20:52.839
<v Speaker 3>the car going down Highway fourteen and one at a

379
00:20:52.880 --> 00:20:56.279
<v Speaker 3>time or two at a time, throwing items out in

380
00:20:56.400 --> 00:21:02.039
<v Speaker 3>order to spread the evidence down on that road. Do

381
00:21:02.119 --> 00:21:06.079
<v Speaker 3>we know when mister X described the two individuals that

382
00:21:06.119 --> 00:21:08.680
<v Speaker 3>he saw with this young lady when Evelyn's being walked

383
00:21:08.680 --> 00:21:10.759
<v Speaker 3>by them, is one of them described as an African

384
00:21:10.799 --> 00:21:11.400
<v Speaker 3>American male.

385
00:21:12.400 --> 00:21:15.799
<v Speaker 1>He doesn't really give any specific descriptions because I think

386
00:21:15.839 --> 00:21:17.720
<v Speaker 1>it was too dark for him to get a good luck.

387
00:21:17.799 --> 00:21:20.200
<v Speaker 1>But I don't see him specifically saying I saw two

388
00:21:20.279 --> 00:21:23.240
<v Speaker 1>white males inside the car, so I guess it was

389
00:21:23.279 --> 00:21:25.240
<v Speaker 1>just too dark for him to tell for certain.

390
00:21:25.799 --> 00:21:29.559
<v Speaker 3>Interesting I also I find it very impressive how much

391
00:21:29.960 --> 00:21:32.920
<v Speaker 3>effort is being put in by law enforcement from the

392
00:21:33.000 --> 00:21:36.880
<v Speaker 3>get go, where there is really no stone unturned, and

393
00:21:36.920 --> 00:21:40.559
<v Speaker 3>they're really trying to even take these clothing items around

394
00:21:40.559 --> 00:21:43.640
<v Speaker 3>to different communities and say do you recognize these? Do

395
00:21:43.680 --> 00:21:46.279
<v Speaker 3>you know anyone who wears these? And for this to

396
00:21:46.319 --> 00:21:50.880
<v Speaker 3>be the fifties, what incredible science they're doing. They're finding

397
00:21:51.160 --> 00:21:54.400
<v Speaker 3>those shoes and the manufacturers, the wear on the shoes.

398
00:21:54.880 --> 00:21:57.119
<v Speaker 3>It's just it's quite remarkable.

399
00:21:57.880 --> 00:22:00.359
<v Speaker 2>I think the fact that they looked into recently Dug

400
00:22:00.400 --> 00:22:03.680
<v Speaker 2>Graves as well, and like even thought of that as

401
00:22:03.680 --> 00:22:06.039
<v Speaker 2>being an option for a body disposal, I think is

402
00:22:06.079 --> 00:22:07.799
<v Speaker 2>pretty remarkable for the time period.

403
00:22:08.359 --> 00:22:11.599
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, Like you can't definitely can't fault the original investigators,

404
00:22:11.599 --> 00:22:14.079
<v Speaker 1>Like they went all out trying to find Evelyn and

405
00:22:14.079 --> 00:22:16.880
<v Speaker 1>solve this case, and which the amount of forensic evidence

406
00:22:16.920 --> 00:22:19.319
<v Speaker 1>they have. I'm sure that if this crime took place today,

407
00:22:19.359 --> 00:22:21.640
<v Speaker 1>they would have been able to solve it relatively quickly

408
00:22:21.720 --> 00:22:25.000
<v Speaker 1>with DNA testing whatnot. But they're doing the best they

409
00:22:25.000 --> 00:22:27.160
<v Speaker 1>can with the forensics they had available back in the

410
00:22:27.240 --> 00:22:28.119
<v Speaker 1>nineteen fifties.

411
00:22:29.319 --> 00:22:31.960
<v Speaker 2>Are either of you familiar with the Caitlin Aikins case.

412
00:22:32.920 --> 00:22:36.400
<v Speaker 1>No, I've heard it, but I can't remember the details.

413
00:22:36.839 --> 00:22:41.039
<v Speaker 2>She went missing, and it's believed are alleged that her

414
00:22:41.079 --> 00:22:44.200
<v Speaker 2>stepfather is the one who's responsible for her disappearance. He

415
00:22:44.279 --> 00:22:47.519
<v Speaker 2>was supposed to have driven her to the airport, but

416
00:22:47.880 --> 00:22:50.799
<v Speaker 2>the flight wasn't leaving for a while, so she wanted

417
00:22:50.839 --> 00:22:53.519
<v Speaker 2>to go to a mall, according to him, and he

418
00:22:53.599 --> 00:22:56.319
<v Speaker 2>said that he drove her there, but then later on,

419
00:22:56.559 --> 00:22:59.599
<v Speaker 2>while searching for she obviously never made it to her destination.

420
00:23:00.079 --> 00:23:02.759
<v Speaker 2>Ever went to the airport. No one's seen her since,

421
00:23:02.880 --> 00:23:06.559
<v Speaker 2>but her suitcase was discovered along the road. The parents

422
00:23:06.640 --> 00:23:09.640
<v Speaker 2>the stepfather and mother are divorced, but apparently they were

423
00:23:09.680 --> 00:23:13.119
<v Speaker 2>still somewhat close. People had alleged that he likely had

424
00:23:13.440 --> 00:23:16.640
<v Speaker 2>thrown that suitcase on that highway because that's where it

425
00:23:16.680 --> 00:23:19.640
<v Speaker 2>was later found, between his home and where the mall

426
00:23:19.720 --> 00:23:22.559
<v Speaker 2>is that he said that he took her so super sketchy.

427
00:23:22.599 --> 00:23:25.920
<v Speaker 2>It's just one of those instances where investigators really did

428
00:23:25.960 --> 00:23:29.240
<v Speaker 2>their due diligence and check the area and found some

429
00:23:29.279 --> 00:23:30.480
<v Speaker 2>pretty compelling evidence.

430
00:23:31.720 --> 00:23:33.720
<v Speaker 1>But sometimes you just don't get that one break that

431
00:23:33.759 --> 00:23:34.960
<v Speaker 1>will allow you to solve the.

432
00:23:34.839 --> 00:23:39.960
<v Speaker 2>Case exactly well. Within a few years, a very infamous

433
00:23:40.000 --> 00:23:42.920
<v Speaker 2>suspect would pop up on the radar. Many of you

434
00:23:42.960 --> 00:23:46.680
<v Speaker 2>are probably familiar with the name ed Gean. During the intro,

435
00:23:46.799 --> 00:23:49.279
<v Speaker 2>we mentioned how this story seemed like something that you'd

436
00:23:49.319 --> 00:23:52.079
<v Speaker 2>find in a horror film, and ed Gean has helped

437
00:23:52.119 --> 00:23:55.000
<v Speaker 2>inspire some of the most famous horror movie villains of

438
00:23:55.039 --> 00:23:59.160
<v Speaker 2>all time, including Norman Bates from Psycho, Leather Faced from

439
00:23:59.200 --> 00:24:02.480
<v Speaker 2>The Texas Chain He Saw Massacre, and Buffalo Bill from

440
00:24:02.519 --> 00:24:05.640
<v Speaker 2>the Silence of the Lambs. Gean lived on a farm

441
00:24:05.680 --> 00:24:08.960
<v Speaker 2>near the small town of Plainfield, Wisconsin, and earned the

442
00:24:09.039 --> 00:24:12.079
<v Speaker 2>nickname the Butcher a Plainfield. But even though he is

443
00:24:12.119 --> 00:24:15.039
<v Speaker 2>often referred to as a serial killer, he technically only

444
00:24:15.079 --> 00:24:18.759
<v Speaker 2>has two confirmed victims, a tavern owner named Mary Hogan

445
00:24:19.200 --> 00:24:23.079
<v Speaker 2>and a hardware store employee named Bernice Warden. The main

446
00:24:23.119 --> 00:24:26.519
<v Speaker 2>reason Geen attains so much notoriety is because he liked

447
00:24:26.519 --> 00:24:29.319
<v Speaker 2>to dig up bodies from the cemetery, take them to

448
00:24:29.359 --> 00:24:32.359
<v Speaker 2>his farmhouse, and fashion items from their bones and skin.

449
00:24:33.279 --> 00:24:37.079
<v Speaker 2>Gean was arrested on November sixteenth, nineteen fifty seven, the

450
00:24:37.160 --> 00:24:41.039
<v Speaker 2>same day he murdered Bernice Warden, as her mutilated body

451
00:24:41.480 --> 00:24:44.519
<v Speaker 2>and the remains of several deceased individuals he dug up

452
00:24:44.839 --> 00:24:47.720
<v Speaker 2>were found at his home. He wound up pleading not

453
00:24:47.799 --> 00:24:51.039
<v Speaker 2>guilty by reason of insanity, and after he was deemed

454
00:24:51.039 --> 00:24:54.400
<v Speaker 2>mentally incompetent to stand trial, Gan was sent to the

455
00:24:54.400 --> 00:24:58.400
<v Speaker 2>Central State Hospital for the criminally Insane, and he remained

456
00:24:58.440 --> 00:25:01.400
<v Speaker 2>incarcerated in mental health ISSAS facilities until his death in

457
00:25:01.480 --> 00:25:04.680
<v Speaker 2>nineteen eighty four. Well it turned out that Keen was

458
00:25:04.720 --> 00:25:08.400
<v Speaker 2>originally born in Lacrosse before his family moved to Plainfield

459
00:25:08.480 --> 00:25:12.200
<v Speaker 2>during his childhood. Now many accounts of this case state

460
00:25:12.279 --> 00:25:15.039
<v Speaker 2>that Gen was visiting relatives in Lacrosse on the night

461
00:25:15.079 --> 00:25:17.680
<v Speaker 2>Evelyn was abducted, and that they lived only a few

462
00:25:17.680 --> 00:25:21.640
<v Speaker 2>blocks away from the Rasmusen residence. This would definitely make

463
00:25:21.720 --> 00:25:26.039
<v Speaker 2>Gean attempting suspect, but I'm not entirely sure how accurate

464
00:25:26.079 --> 00:25:29.960
<v Speaker 2>this information is. During a lot of the original newspaper

465
00:25:30.039 --> 00:25:33.079
<v Speaker 2>articles about the case, it states that when Geen was

466
00:25:33.200 --> 00:25:36.920
<v Speaker 2>questioned about Evelyn's disappearance, he claimed that he never returned

467
00:25:36.960 --> 00:25:40.279
<v Speaker 2>to Lacrosse since his family moved away from there when

468
00:25:40.279 --> 00:25:43.119
<v Speaker 2>he was seven years old, and he also said that

469
00:25:43.160 --> 00:25:45.160
<v Speaker 2>he would have been working on a neighbor's farm near

470
00:25:45.240 --> 00:25:48.519
<v Speaker 2>Plainfield at the time Evelyn went missing. None of the

471
00:25:48.559 --> 00:25:51.920
<v Speaker 2>remains found on Gen's farm belonged to Evelyn, and there

472
00:25:51.960 --> 00:25:55.720
<v Speaker 2>was no evidence linking him to her abduction. After Gean

473
00:25:55.880 --> 00:25:59.200
<v Speaker 2>passed two light detector tests, investigators ruled him out as

474
00:25:59.240 --> 00:25:59.839
<v Speaker 2>a suspect.

475
00:26:00.440 --> 00:26:03.559
<v Speaker 3>And what's interesting about him is he made no attempt

476
00:26:03.559 --> 00:26:05.920
<v Speaker 3>to cover up what he was doing. He lived amongst

477
00:26:06.000 --> 00:26:09.200
<v Speaker 3>the evidence of the crimes he committed, so I believe

478
00:26:09.200 --> 00:26:11.640
<v Speaker 3>if he was responsible for Evelyn's they would have been

479
00:26:11.640 --> 00:26:15.079
<v Speaker 3>able to find evidence of that and his home or

480
00:26:16.279 --> 00:26:18.759
<v Speaker 3>at some point he would have been able to account

481
00:26:18.759 --> 00:26:22.319
<v Speaker 3>for her. But it's very tempting, especially when you talk

482
00:26:22.319 --> 00:26:25.319
<v Speaker 3>about the fact that he has relatives that live in

483
00:26:25.400 --> 00:26:29.240
<v Speaker 3>Lacrosse and he might have been visiting, but obviously he

484
00:26:29.279 --> 00:26:31.400
<v Speaker 3>got ruled out. But like I said, you would have

485
00:26:31.839 --> 00:26:34.559
<v Speaker 3>likely have been able to find evidence of Evelyn at

486
00:26:34.559 --> 00:26:38.880
<v Speaker 3>his home. He wasn't real shy about displaying and having

487
00:26:38.920 --> 00:26:40.440
<v Speaker 3>those items out and about.

488
00:26:40.680 --> 00:26:44.880
<v Speaker 2>The victimology is completely different with Evelyn and with ed

489
00:26:44.920 --> 00:26:45.799
<v Speaker 2>Gen's victims.

490
00:26:46.839 --> 00:26:48.440
<v Speaker 3>Very much so, yeah, very much so.

491
00:26:48.720 --> 00:26:50.359
<v Speaker 1>He does not seem like someone would go to the

492
00:26:50.400 --> 00:26:53.319
<v Speaker 1>trouble to dispose and get rid of a victim's body.

493
00:26:53.400 --> 00:26:55.559
<v Speaker 1>And I think as the years have gone on, because

494
00:26:55.720 --> 00:26:58.400
<v Speaker 1>ed Gan has attained so much notoriety, people have found

495
00:26:58.480 --> 00:27:02.359
<v Speaker 1>this tentative Lacrosse connection between him and Evelyn's case and

496
00:27:02.440 --> 00:27:05.559
<v Speaker 1>tried to link it together because he was questioned. But

497
00:27:05.920 --> 00:27:08.799
<v Speaker 1>he really does not seem like a compelling suspect here.

498
00:27:09.359 --> 00:27:12.559
<v Speaker 2>A killer as infamous as ed Geen. Just because a

499
00:27:12.680 --> 00:27:15.559
<v Speaker 2>murder happens in the town that he was born and

500
00:27:15.720 --> 00:27:18.720
<v Speaker 2>maybe he was visiting family doesn't mean that there can't

501
00:27:18.759 --> 00:27:21.880
<v Speaker 2>be somebody else who isn't responsible, or that every murder

502
00:27:21.920 --> 00:27:25.400
<v Speaker 2>that's ever attached to that town has to somehow be

503
00:27:25.480 --> 00:27:27.960
<v Speaker 2>connected to him. But I think it's like a tempting

504
00:27:28.000 --> 00:27:31.119
<v Speaker 2>thing to say, Oh well, especially in the nineteen fifties,

505
00:27:31.519 --> 00:27:36.599
<v Speaker 2>there isn't social media. Things don't spread on TikTok, on Facebook,

506
00:27:36.640 --> 00:27:39.160
<v Speaker 2>on Instagram the way that they do today. That we're

507
00:27:39.200 --> 00:27:41.640
<v Speaker 2>so familiar with so many cases, and that we know

508
00:27:41.720 --> 00:27:44.720
<v Speaker 2>the names of so many killers in the nineteen fifties,

509
00:27:45.000 --> 00:27:48.519
<v Speaker 2>I think that he would have been one of the few. Like,

510
00:27:48.680 --> 00:27:50.519
<v Speaker 2>I can't think of any others that would have been

511
00:27:50.519 --> 00:27:51.920
<v Speaker 2>famous at the time, can either of you?

512
00:27:53.400 --> 00:27:56.119
<v Speaker 3>No, not right, not in that area for sure.

513
00:27:56.319 --> 00:27:58.440
<v Speaker 1>I mean maybe some from the twenties and thirties, but

514
00:27:58.519 --> 00:28:01.599
<v Speaker 1>no active serial killers in the nineteen fifties that would

515
00:28:01.640 --> 00:28:02.559
<v Speaker 1>have been in the news a lot.

516
00:28:03.440 --> 00:28:05.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So he would have loomed pretty large. It would

517
00:28:05.759 --> 00:28:08.160
<v Speaker 2>have been really tempting to connect him, no matter how

518
00:28:08.200 --> 00:28:09.039
<v Speaker 2>tenuous it was.

519
00:28:11.200 --> 00:28:13.200
<v Speaker 1>So over the course of the next several decades, there

520
00:28:13.200 --> 00:28:16.519
<v Speaker 1>would be very little movement in Evelyn's case. In nineteen

521
00:28:16.559 --> 00:28:19.839
<v Speaker 1>eighty nine, a documentary was produced about her disappearance by

522
00:28:19.920 --> 00:28:25.559
<v Speaker 1>Lacrosse's local television station, WKBTTV. It was titled The Evelyn

523
00:28:25.599 --> 00:28:29.000
<v Speaker 1>Hartley Story and you can watch the whole thing on YouTube.

524
00:28:29.119 --> 00:28:32.640
<v Speaker 1>Shortly after it aired, Steve Botham, the reporter who hosted

525
00:28:32.640 --> 00:28:36.319
<v Speaker 1>the documentary, was contacted by two anonymous witnesses who had

526
00:28:36.319 --> 00:28:39.960
<v Speaker 1>watched it and thought they recognized the bloodstained Denham jacket

527
00:28:40.000 --> 00:28:43.559
<v Speaker 1>and tennis shoes which were found. The witnesses believed that

528
00:28:43.599 --> 00:28:46.319
<v Speaker 1>it belonged to a local farmer, and apparently on the

529
00:28:46.359 --> 00:28:48.839
<v Speaker 1>day of Evelyn's disappearance, he had been working in the

530
00:28:48.880 --> 00:28:51.720
<v Speaker 1>fields and talking about going into town to find a woman.

531
00:28:52.480 --> 00:28:55.240
<v Speaker 1>At the time, the farmer was wearing a denim jacket

532
00:28:55.240 --> 00:28:58.000
<v Speaker 1>and tennis shoes, which he often wore, and driving a

533
00:28:58.119 --> 00:29:02.839
<v Speaker 1>dark colored nineteen thirty eighth. He became agitated when the

534
00:29:02.880 --> 00:29:05.920
<v Speaker 1>work went on longer than expected before he finally left

535
00:29:05.960 --> 00:29:09.680
<v Speaker 1>at around six thirty pm. But after this, the witnesses

536
00:29:09.720 --> 00:29:12.039
<v Speaker 1>claimed that they never saw him wear the jacket or

537
00:29:12.119 --> 00:29:15.640
<v Speaker 1>the tennis shoes, or drive the Chevrolet again. By the

538
00:29:15.680 --> 00:29:18.160
<v Speaker 1>time they came forward with this story, the farmer had

539
00:29:18.200 --> 00:29:21.519
<v Speaker 1>been dead for over ten years. Steve Botham did make

540
00:29:21.559 --> 00:29:24.200
<v Speaker 1>an attempt to track down the bloodstained denim jacket and

541
00:29:24.279 --> 00:29:26.839
<v Speaker 1>tennis shoes, but none of the crime labs could find

542
00:29:26.880 --> 00:29:29.799
<v Speaker 1>the items, so it appeared that the evidence had been lost.

543
00:29:30.359 --> 00:29:32.960
<v Speaker 3>Oh goodness, and that's what these witnesses said, that they

544
00:29:33.359 --> 00:29:36.640
<v Speaker 3>actually identified, right, they could identify that and could link it,

545
00:29:37.480 --> 00:29:39.519
<v Speaker 3>they thought, to this case. And then you go to

546
00:29:39.559 --> 00:29:41.519
<v Speaker 3>find them and they disappeared.

547
00:29:42.359 --> 00:29:44.720
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. I think they showed photographs of the items on

548
00:29:44.799 --> 00:29:47.000
<v Speaker 1>the TV special and that's when they recognized him. And

549
00:29:47.039 --> 00:29:49.240
<v Speaker 1>then they suddenly realized, oh, we don't actually have the

550
00:29:49.519 --> 00:29:52.839
<v Speaker 1>items themselves. So and this was when DNA testing was

551
00:29:52.880 --> 00:29:56.279
<v Speaker 1>finally coming into criminal cases. But of course they were

552
00:29:56.359 --> 00:29:57.519
<v Speaker 1>unable to do the testing.

553
00:29:59.359 --> 00:30:03.759
<v Speaker 2>Theation once again came to a dead halt. But another

554
00:30:03.880 --> 00:30:08.039
<v Speaker 2>interesting development took place shortly after a fiftieth anniversary article

555
00:30:08.079 --> 00:30:11.440
<v Speaker 2>about Evelyn's disappearance was published in October of two thousand

556
00:30:11.480 --> 00:30:14.400
<v Speaker 2>and three. The article jogged the memory of a man

557
00:30:14.519 --> 00:30:17.799
<v Speaker 2>named mel Williams, who remembered a tape recording he had

558
00:30:17.839 --> 00:30:22.400
<v Speaker 2>made decades earlier. Once Williams discovered he still had this tape,

559
00:30:22.519 --> 00:30:24.640
<v Speaker 2>he turned it over to the police and shared a

560
00:30:24.640 --> 00:30:28.720
<v Speaker 2>strange story. In nineteen sixty eight, Williams went to a

561
00:30:28.759 --> 00:30:32.440
<v Speaker 2>tavern in the village of Lafarge, Wisconsin, and brought a

562
00:30:32.480 --> 00:30:35.119
<v Speaker 2>real to reel tape recorder to record the band who

563
00:30:35.200 --> 00:30:38.160
<v Speaker 2>was playing there that night. He decided to record a

564
00:30:38.200 --> 00:30:41.640
<v Speaker 2>conversation with a local character who frequented the tavern named

565
00:30:41.640 --> 00:30:45.240
<v Speaker 2>Clyde Tywee Peterson, and it wasn't long before they were

566
00:30:45.319 --> 00:30:49.559
<v Speaker 2>joined by another man named Whitey Barclay, who suddenly said, quote,

567
00:30:49.799 --> 00:30:54.240
<v Speaker 2>tell them about that Heartley girl you kidnapped, Tywee. Incredibly,

568
00:30:54.359 --> 00:30:57.400
<v Speaker 2>Peterson proceeded to share a story about how he traveled

569
00:30:57.400 --> 00:31:00.640
<v Speaker 2>to Lacrosse with an accomplice and a mutual friend of theirs,

570
00:31:01.079 --> 00:31:04.960
<v Speaker 2>where they abducted Evelyn Hartley. Now, the original article about

571
00:31:04.960 --> 00:31:08.279
<v Speaker 2>this story published in the Matun Journal Gazette says that

572
00:31:08.319 --> 00:31:12.200
<v Speaker 2>the accomplice's name was Jack Golfair with a P. But

573
00:31:12.279 --> 00:31:14.759
<v Speaker 2>I think that was a misprint and his actual last

574
00:31:14.799 --> 00:31:17.799
<v Speaker 2>name was Golfair with a TE. We'll go into this

575
00:31:17.880 --> 00:31:20.880
<v Speaker 2>in more detail about this discrepancy in part two of

576
00:31:20.880 --> 00:31:26.279
<v Speaker 2>our series. Anyway, Evelyn's abduction was apparently Golfair's idea, and

577
00:31:26.359 --> 00:31:29.160
<v Speaker 2>he knew that she was babysitting at the Rasmusen residence

578
00:31:29.240 --> 00:31:32.640
<v Speaker 2>that night. After kidnapping Evelyn, the group took her to

579
00:31:32.720 --> 00:31:36.160
<v Speaker 2>a mutual friend's farm, where Golfer killed her before they

580
00:31:36.160 --> 00:31:40.319
<v Speaker 2>buried her body somewhere. The conversation eventually reached the point

581
00:31:40.359 --> 00:31:44.079
<v Speaker 2>where Petersen told Williams to stop the tape. Williams claimed

582
00:31:44.119 --> 00:31:47.000
<v Speaker 2>he couldn't remember what happened next, but he did wind

583
00:31:47.079 --> 00:31:50.200
<v Speaker 2>up taking the tape home and completely forgot about it

584
00:31:50.279 --> 00:31:53.519
<v Speaker 2>until his wife read the fiftieth anniversary article and reminded

585
00:31:53.559 --> 00:31:56.519
<v Speaker 2>him about it. At the time the recording was made

586
00:31:56.559 --> 00:32:00.000
<v Speaker 2>in nineteen sixty eight, Jack Golfair had already died by

587
00:32:00.039 --> 00:32:04.200
<v Speaker 2>suicide by the time Williams came forward. Peterson and the

588
00:32:04.240 --> 00:32:08.480
<v Speaker 2>other unnamed accomplice were also deceased, and Whitey Barclay was

589
00:32:08.519 --> 00:32:11.480
<v Speaker 2>in his nineties and suffering from dementia, so he was

590
00:32:11.559 --> 00:32:14.319
<v Speaker 2>unable to answer any questions before his death in two

591
00:32:14.359 --> 00:32:15.079
<v Speaker 2>thousand and seven.

592
00:32:16.119 --> 00:32:19.440
<v Speaker 3>Okay, so question, how would if you just said the

593
00:32:19.440 --> 00:32:22.920
<v Speaker 3>Hartley Girl, tell them about the Hartley Girl, and this

594
00:32:23.000 --> 00:32:26.240
<v Speaker 3>man starts going into that they kidnapped this girl from

595
00:32:26.319 --> 00:32:29.599
<v Speaker 3>Lacrosse and they knew that she was babysitting that night.

596
00:32:29.680 --> 00:32:33.519
<v Speaker 3>If that's all on that tape, what would make anyone question,

597
00:32:33.599 --> 00:32:36.000
<v Speaker 3>if anyone but these people, I mean, how would they

598
00:32:36.000 --> 00:32:39.599
<v Speaker 3>know those details other than media coverage of the case.

599
00:32:39.680 --> 00:32:42.440
<v Speaker 3>But still back at the time that this tape was made,

600
00:32:42.440 --> 00:32:45.359
<v Speaker 3>it was the late sixties, right, so it's not like

601
00:32:45.400 --> 00:32:50.680
<v Speaker 3>everybody has, you know, iPhones and social media and stuff

602
00:32:50.720 --> 00:32:53.680
<v Speaker 3>like that. It's still pretty isolated where you get your

603
00:32:53.759 --> 00:32:57.480
<v Speaker 3>news from. So there's a lot of details in that

604
00:32:57.559 --> 00:32:58.799
<v Speaker 3>description that they gave.

605
00:32:59.519 --> 00:33:01.599
<v Speaker 1>That is true. I mean, I know that Lafarge is

606
00:33:01.720 --> 00:33:05.279
<v Speaker 1>probably not far from Lacrosse, so maybe people still remember

607
00:33:05.359 --> 00:33:08.400
<v Speaker 1>the story fifteen years later. But you are right, Evelyn's

608
00:33:08.440 --> 00:33:10.359
<v Speaker 1>case had been out of the spotlight for quite some

609
00:33:10.480 --> 00:33:12.680
<v Speaker 1>time at that point, so for them to know so

610
00:33:12.720 --> 00:33:16.279
<v Speaker 1>many details does suggest that they might have had inside knowledge.

611
00:33:16.599 --> 00:33:18.720
<v Speaker 1>But as far as I can tell, like they listened

612
00:33:18.720 --> 00:33:20.359
<v Speaker 1>to the recording of this tape, I'm not sure if

613
00:33:20.359 --> 00:33:23.480
<v Speaker 1>they released any details that had never been released publicly

614
00:33:23.640 --> 00:33:26.240
<v Speaker 1>to indicate that they had inside knowledge. I mean, for

615
00:33:26.279 --> 00:33:28.319
<v Speaker 1>all we know, these guys could have just been bragging

616
00:33:28.359 --> 00:33:30.599
<v Speaker 1>in a bar about how, oh yeah, we kidnapped that

617
00:33:30.599 --> 00:33:33.279
<v Speaker 1>missing girl. Though I don't know why someone want to

618
00:33:33.279 --> 00:33:35.720
<v Speaker 1>do that in a public bar if they had nothing

619
00:33:35.759 --> 00:33:38.039
<v Speaker 1>to do with it. But you just never know. But

620
00:33:38.160 --> 00:33:40.160
<v Speaker 1>it is kind of a shame that Williams just said, yeah,

621
00:33:40.160 --> 00:33:43.119
<v Speaker 1>I heard this confession of these two people confessing to

622
00:33:43.160 --> 00:33:45.319
<v Speaker 1>a murder, but then and I recorded it, but then

623
00:33:45.359 --> 00:33:48.519
<v Speaker 1>I forgot about it for fifty years. So yeah, it

624
00:33:48.559 --> 00:33:50.920
<v Speaker 1>does me. I know this recording does exist, but it

625
00:33:50.960 --> 00:33:53.680
<v Speaker 1>does make you skeptical about whether these guys were telling

626
00:33:53.720 --> 00:33:54.160
<v Speaker 1>the truth.

627
00:33:54.759 --> 00:33:57.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I wonder if they shared any holdback information or

628
00:33:57.960 --> 00:34:00.559
<v Speaker 2>if everything was just kind of generic and there wasn't

629
00:34:00.559 --> 00:34:02.799
<v Speaker 2>a lot of murders in the area and this one

630
00:34:02.880 --> 00:34:06.960
<v Speaker 2>was very infamous, so they just retain the information and

631
00:34:07.079 --> 00:34:09.599
<v Speaker 2>maybe they told this to other people trying to take

632
00:34:09.639 --> 00:34:11.800
<v Speaker 2>credit for it over the years, so it was just

633
00:34:11.880 --> 00:34:15.239
<v Speaker 2>kind of regurgitating the same information and it's just like

634
00:34:15.960 --> 00:34:19.599
<v Speaker 2>details on this one case that they remembered, because sometimes

635
00:34:19.639 --> 00:34:23.320
<v Speaker 2>criminals like to take credit for something that they didn't commit.

636
00:34:23.800 --> 00:34:26.760
<v Speaker 2>It does seem a weird flex to talk in a

637
00:34:26.800 --> 00:34:30.000
<v Speaker 2>bar with somebody about how you abducted a girl. I mean,

638
00:34:30.440 --> 00:34:32.559
<v Speaker 2>it's not like you're like, oh, I rob this bank

639
00:34:32.679 --> 00:34:36.039
<v Speaker 2>successfully and like look at me. I'm this you know,

640
00:34:36.199 --> 00:34:39.199
<v Speaker 2>person who's like Robin Hood and I'm you know, taking

641
00:34:39.199 --> 00:34:42.039
<v Speaker 2>from the rich and giving to the poor aka myself.

642
00:34:42.760 --> 00:34:45.679
<v Speaker 2>But it's a little bit different when it's abducting a girl,

643
00:34:45.760 --> 00:34:49.280
<v Speaker 2>And how are you taking the temperature of the room

644
00:34:49.760 --> 00:34:52.320
<v Speaker 2>and seeing that like this would be received in a

645
00:34:52.400 --> 00:34:56.920
<v Speaker 2>way that it was, because obviously these people gauged it properly,

646
00:34:57.079 --> 00:35:00.480
<v Speaker 2>because he didn't share this information. He held this tape

647
00:35:00.519 --> 00:35:03.440
<v Speaker 2>back and didn't go to the authorities. So I suppose

648
00:35:03.519 --> 00:35:06.119
<v Speaker 2>they shared it with like the right type of individual,

649
00:35:06.440 --> 00:35:09.159
<v Speaker 2>who likely was somebody else who's involved in some kind

650
00:35:09.199 --> 00:35:12.599
<v Speaker 2>of criminality, because why else would you hold back information

651
00:35:12.679 --> 00:35:16.320
<v Speaker 2>that could be pertinent to the abduction of Evelyn.

652
00:35:16.000 --> 00:35:19.400
<v Speaker 3>Hartley, Like I went that night to record a band,

653
00:35:19.840 --> 00:35:23.320
<v Speaker 3>I heard a murder confession and man forgot about that.

654
00:35:23.800 --> 00:35:27.639
<v Speaker 1>Weird. Yeah, so bizarre. And also the fact that Peterson

655
00:35:27.719 --> 00:35:30.960
<v Speaker 1>told Williams to stop recording. But I'm thinking if this

656
00:35:31.079 --> 00:35:33.599
<v Speaker 1>was a legitimate confession, he probably would have fought harder

657
00:35:33.639 --> 00:35:36.599
<v Speaker 1>to get that recording from him rather than let Williams

658
00:35:36.639 --> 00:35:38.880
<v Speaker 1>take it home. So that's why I don't write off

659
00:35:38.880 --> 00:35:41.400
<v Speaker 1>the possibility that they were just deciding to brag about

660
00:35:41.440 --> 00:35:44.440
<v Speaker 1>it for their own personal amusement. The police said that

661
00:35:44.480 --> 00:35:47.639
<v Speaker 1>they would look into these new allegations, possibly by exhumining

662
00:35:47.719 --> 00:35:50.599
<v Speaker 1>the bodies of the suspects and extracting and comparing their

663
00:35:50.679 --> 00:35:53.480
<v Speaker 1>DNA to the blood evidence found at the scene, but

664
00:35:53.639 --> 00:35:55.639
<v Speaker 1>as far as I can tell, it doesn't look like

665
00:35:55.679 --> 00:35:59.119
<v Speaker 1>this was ever done. While Peterson did reveal Evelyn's alleged

666
00:35:59.119 --> 00:36:02.840
<v Speaker 1>burial location during the recording, this information has been withheld

667
00:36:02.840 --> 00:36:06.039
<v Speaker 1>from the public. It was revealed that this location was

668
00:36:06.079 --> 00:36:10.320
<v Speaker 1>in a Mississippi River floodplain, so unfortunately, if Evelyn's remains

669
00:36:10.400 --> 00:36:14.239
<v Speaker 1>were there, they likely washed away many years ago. In

670
00:36:14.280 --> 00:36:17.199
<v Speaker 1>spite of these new revelations, the investigation seems to have

671
00:36:17.239 --> 00:36:20.960
<v Speaker 1>come to a standstill once again. Evelyn's disappearance had a

672
00:36:21.039 --> 00:36:24.880
<v Speaker 1>profound effect on both the Hartley and Rasmusen families. In

673
00:36:24.960 --> 00:36:29.239
<v Speaker 1>nineteen seventy one, after Richard Hartley retired from Lacrosse State College,

674
00:36:29.400 --> 00:36:32.599
<v Speaker 1>the family moved to Oregon. Both of Evelyn's parents and

675
00:36:32.639 --> 00:36:35.599
<v Speaker 1>her older brother Thomas, have since passed away, but her

676
00:36:35.599 --> 00:36:39.000
<v Speaker 1>younger sister, Carol is still alive. In February of nineteen

677
00:36:39.039 --> 00:36:43.039
<v Speaker 1>ninety seven, Janis Rasmussen, who was present and sleeping during

678
00:36:43.039 --> 00:36:46.320
<v Speaker 1>Evelyn's abduction when she was twenty months old, agreed to

679
00:36:46.320 --> 00:36:49.800
<v Speaker 1>give an interview for the Lacrosse Tribune. By this point,

680
00:36:49.960 --> 00:36:52.599
<v Speaker 1>Janis was forty five years old and said that the

681
00:36:52.639 --> 00:36:55.719
<v Speaker 1>incident made her parents become extra protective of her and

682
00:36:55.760 --> 00:36:59.519
<v Speaker 1>her sister. The ras Musens immediately sold their house and

683
00:36:59.519 --> 00:37:02.239
<v Speaker 1>moved into a new home, where bars were installed on

684
00:37:02.280 --> 00:37:07.800
<v Speaker 1>the basement window. In twenty seventeen, the ras Musician's eldest daughter, Roslin,

685
00:37:08.039 --> 00:37:10.719
<v Speaker 1>who attended the homecoming game with her parents that night,

686
00:37:11.119 --> 00:37:14.880
<v Speaker 1>also did an interview for the Lacrosse Tribune. She and

687
00:37:14.960 --> 00:37:18.000
<v Speaker 1>she concurred that the case made her father extra paranoid

688
00:37:18.000 --> 00:37:20.440
<v Speaker 1>about his children's safety and that he was never quite

689
00:37:20.480 --> 00:37:24.159
<v Speaker 1>the same. After more than seventy years, Evelyn Hartley's remains

690
00:37:24.199 --> 00:37:26.800
<v Speaker 1>have never been found, and the identity of her abductor

691
00:37:26.960 --> 00:37:30.519
<v Speaker 1>or abductor's remains unknown. So I guess you could say

692
00:37:30.880 --> 00:37:32.440
<v Speaker 1>the path when Chili.

693
00:37:33.559 --> 00:37:36.480
<v Speaker 3>Your heart just breaks for both parties. Here where the

694
00:37:36.559 --> 00:37:41.599
<v Speaker 3>Rasmussens were off to celebrate a homecoming game, and they

695
00:37:41.639 --> 00:37:44.760
<v Speaker 3>asked one of their family friend's daughters to come over

696
00:37:44.800 --> 00:37:49.760
<v Speaker 3>and babysit, and literally what a mixed evening like Their

697
00:37:49.880 --> 00:37:54.400
<v Speaker 3>daughter's safe in her crib, but this other child is

698
00:37:54.599 --> 00:37:59.440
<v Speaker 3>missing and likely dead. And this is all on the

699
00:37:59.519 --> 00:38:01.199
<v Speaker 3>night that was It's just supposed to be a celebration

700
00:38:01.280 --> 00:38:05.159
<v Speaker 3>of the local sports team, and so I can't imagine

701
00:38:05.760 --> 00:38:11.800
<v Speaker 3>not becoming incredibly hyper vigilant about everything. Someone came into

702
00:38:11.840 --> 00:38:15.320
<v Speaker 3>your home where your baby was sleeping, and you had

703
00:38:15.320 --> 00:38:18.239
<v Speaker 3>a young teen babysitting for you or young lady baby

704
00:38:18.239 --> 00:38:21.599
<v Speaker 3>sitting for you, and that's supposed to be the safest

705
00:38:21.639 --> 00:38:26.000
<v Speaker 3>place you could be, and yet someone invaded that space

706
00:38:26.480 --> 00:38:30.840
<v Speaker 3>and put everyone in danger in that home and most

707
00:38:30.880 --> 00:38:33.519
<v Speaker 3>likely killed one of the individuals who is there. So

708
00:38:34.039 --> 00:38:38.440
<v Speaker 3>that hypervigilance I totally understand. I can't imagine that the

709
00:38:38.519 --> 00:38:40.800
<v Speaker 3>kind of the guilt and the pain and the fear

710
00:38:41.320 --> 00:38:44.039
<v Speaker 3>that would follow you the rest of your life for

711
00:38:44.440 --> 00:38:47.440
<v Speaker 3>that evening and then her. When you look at the

712
00:38:47.480 --> 00:38:50.079
<v Speaker 3>Hartley family, the first thing I'd want to do is

713
00:38:50.079 --> 00:38:51.960
<v Speaker 3>get the heck out of there. I find it admirable

714
00:38:52.079 --> 00:38:55.280
<v Speaker 3>Richard waited and retired from the college so that he

715
00:38:55.320 --> 00:38:57.519
<v Speaker 3>could provide better for his family and then moved them

716
00:38:57.519 --> 00:39:00.880
<v Speaker 3>to Oregon. It's so sad that they all passed away

717
00:39:00.920 --> 00:39:06.519
<v Speaker 3>without knowing what happened to their baby. But man, both parties,

718
00:39:06.599 --> 00:39:11.039
<v Speaker 3>it is absolutely heartbreaking that these two family friends had

719
00:39:11.039 --> 00:39:13.800
<v Speaker 3>a simple evening planned and at the end of the

720
00:39:13.880 --> 00:39:15.840
<v Speaker 3>night it was the biggest nightmare either one of them

721
00:39:15.880 --> 00:39:18.239
<v Speaker 3>had ever imagined well.

722
00:39:18.280 --> 00:39:21.119
<v Speaker 1>Whenever a horrific crime like this takes place, you'll often

723
00:39:21.159 --> 00:39:23.599
<v Speaker 1>hear comments about how things were never quite the same

724
00:39:23.639 --> 00:39:27.199
<v Speaker 1>in the community, and that definitely rings true here. Lacrosse,

725
00:39:27.199 --> 00:39:29.920
<v Speaker 1>Wisconsint wasn't an overly small town, as it had a

726
00:39:29.960 --> 00:39:33.119
<v Speaker 1>population of around forty seven thousand in nineteen fifty three,

727
00:39:33.559 --> 00:39:36.880
<v Speaker 1>but they had never seen anything like this before. The

728
00:39:36.920 --> 00:39:39.599
<v Speaker 1>idea of a teenage girl being abducted from a home

729
00:39:39.639 --> 00:39:43.519
<v Speaker 1>while she was babysitting was absolutely terrifying, and since Evelyn

730
00:39:43.559 --> 00:39:47.199
<v Speaker 1>was never found and the perpetrator was never identified, Lacrosse

731
00:39:47.280 --> 00:39:50.199
<v Speaker 1>lived in fear for a long time. There were stories

732
00:39:50.239 --> 00:39:52.400
<v Speaker 1>about how men would stay home from work because they

733
00:39:52.440 --> 00:39:55.880
<v Speaker 1>didn't want to leave their wives and children alone, and nobody,

734
00:39:56.039 --> 00:40:00.000
<v Speaker 1>especially teenage girls, wanted to babysit after this. The situation

735
00:40:00.039 --> 00:40:03.920
<v Speaker 1>Lulation was especially heartbreaking for Evelyn's parents, as Evelyn apparently

736
00:40:03.960 --> 00:40:07.440
<v Speaker 1>wanted to back out of the babysitting job, but her mother, Ethel,

737
00:40:07.480 --> 00:40:09.239
<v Speaker 1>told her that she had to do it because she

738
00:40:09.280 --> 00:40:12.719
<v Speaker 1>made a commitment. In cases where children are murdered or

739
00:40:12.760 --> 00:40:15.440
<v Speaker 1>grow missing, you'll sometimes hear the parents say that they

740
00:40:15.440 --> 00:40:18.239
<v Speaker 1>were hit with an unexplained gut feeling that something was

741
00:40:18.280 --> 00:40:22.440
<v Speaker 1>wrong right before it happened. At around seven pm, shortly

742
00:40:22.480 --> 00:40:25.239
<v Speaker 1>after Evelyn left to go babysitting, Ethel said that she

743
00:40:25.320 --> 00:40:27.679
<v Speaker 1>had one of those gut feelings and wanted to call

744
00:40:27.760 --> 00:40:30.679
<v Speaker 1>the Rasmussen home, but her husband convinced her it wasn't

745
00:40:30.719 --> 00:40:33.519
<v Speaker 1>necessary since Evelyn was planning to call at eight thirty,

746
00:40:33.840 --> 00:40:37.159
<v Speaker 1>and of course, seven PM is the approximate time period

747
00:40:37.280 --> 00:40:40.599
<v Speaker 1>when Evelyn was believed to have been abducted. When the

748
00:40:40.639 --> 00:40:43.400
<v Speaker 1>Hartleys arrived at the Rasmusen home and saw the pools

749
00:40:43.400 --> 00:40:46.840
<v Speaker 1>of blood outside, Ethel completely broke down and said she

750
00:40:46.920 --> 00:40:49.880
<v Speaker 1>knew at that moment that her daughter was dead. And

751
00:40:50.000 --> 00:40:52.800
<v Speaker 1>of course, even though her baby daughter was left unharmed,

752
00:40:53.239 --> 00:40:56.320
<v Speaker 1>this incident had a profound effect on the Rasmussen family.

753
00:40:56.559 --> 00:40:59.639
<v Speaker 1>Since the crime took place at their house, there was

754
00:40:59.679 --> 00:41:02.880
<v Speaker 1>no way they could possibly continue living there after what happened,

755
00:41:03.159 --> 00:41:06.119
<v Speaker 1>and it sounds like vegle ras Musin was overly paranoid

756
00:41:06.159 --> 00:41:08.760
<v Speaker 1>and protective of his daughters for the rest of his life.

757
00:41:09.599 --> 00:41:12.519
<v Speaker 1>It's bad not that Evelyn vanished while babysitting, but the

758
00:41:12.519 --> 00:41:15.199
<v Speaker 1>fact that there was blood evidence, her glasses were broken

759
00:41:15.320 --> 00:41:18.320
<v Speaker 1>and her shoes were left behind, clearly indicated that she

760
00:41:18.559 --> 00:41:21.000
<v Speaker 1>was the victim of a violent crime and the odds

761
00:41:21.000 --> 00:41:22.480
<v Speaker 1>of her surviving it were not good.

762
00:41:23.559 --> 00:41:26.639
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and that's the problem. I think once there's an injury,

763
00:41:26.679 --> 00:41:29.480
<v Speaker 3>and once there's kind of that risk, you see the

764
00:41:29.519 --> 00:41:32.400
<v Speaker 3>crime escalate to a whole new level, like you'll see

765
00:41:32.440 --> 00:41:35.840
<v Speaker 3>in a sexual assault, where a perpetrator believes that maybe

766
00:41:35.840 --> 00:41:39.239
<v Speaker 3>I can get away with this, and the victim is

767
00:41:39.280 --> 00:41:45.320
<v Speaker 3>not physically harmed beyond the assault. Right, there's no knife,

768
00:41:46.079 --> 00:41:49.280
<v Speaker 3>there's no stabbings, there's no gunshots or anything like that.

769
00:41:49.480 --> 00:41:52.320
<v Speaker 3>But I think once you cross that line and there's

770
00:41:52.360 --> 00:41:56.119
<v Speaker 3>a physical assault, blood's present. I just think it changes

771
00:41:56.199 --> 00:41:59.719
<v Speaker 3>the whole perception and the whole kind of idea of

772
00:41:59.840 --> 00:42:02.159
<v Speaker 3>I can't get away with this. At this point, we've

773
00:42:02.199 --> 00:42:06.159
<v Speaker 3>gone too far, We've hurt her too much, and so

774
00:42:06.840 --> 00:42:11.119
<v Speaker 3>I don't believe that Evelyn would have survived this. And

775
00:42:11.360 --> 00:42:14.760
<v Speaker 3>it's heartbreaking when you think about this, because I know

776
00:42:14.880 --> 00:42:17.639
<v Speaker 3>what that mom's describing when she says, you have that

777
00:42:17.760 --> 00:42:20.480
<v Speaker 3>gut feeling. I don't think it's just when it's a

778
00:42:20.519 --> 00:42:23.719
<v Speaker 3>crime being committed against your child. I remember one night

779
00:42:23.760 --> 00:42:26.440
<v Speaker 3>I had a just a really bad night. I was

780
00:42:26.519 --> 00:42:27.039
<v Speaker 3>up all night.

781
00:42:27.079 --> 00:42:29.000
<v Speaker 1>I was upset, I was crying.

782
00:42:29.079 --> 00:42:30.880
<v Speaker 3>And my mom called me at like five point forty

783
00:42:30.880 --> 00:42:32.960
<v Speaker 3>five the next morning and said, I'm so sorry if

784
00:42:33.000 --> 00:42:35.159
<v Speaker 3>I woke you up, But all night I was up

785
00:42:35.239 --> 00:42:39.079
<v Speaker 3>feeling like you were distraught and struggling, and I went, what, like,

786
00:42:40.039 --> 00:42:43.039
<v Speaker 3>what in her gut? She just knew something was wrong.

787
00:42:43.119 --> 00:42:46.360
<v Speaker 3>And I've had those feelings where I'll think of Reagan

788
00:42:46.440 --> 00:42:48.960
<v Speaker 3>during the school day and I'm like, I've something's going on.

789
00:42:49.079 --> 00:42:51.159
<v Speaker 3>I have this kind of just sick feeling, and then

790
00:42:51.280 --> 00:42:53.000
<v Speaker 3>Reagan I'll get in the car crying and say that

791
00:42:53.039 --> 00:42:55.360
<v Speaker 3>it was a really bad day or something like that.

792
00:42:55.440 --> 00:42:58.679
<v Speaker 3>So I think there's that maternal instinct where you go

793
00:42:58.800 --> 00:43:02.119
<v Speaker 3>something's off, and I don't know what it is, or

794
00:43:02.119 --> 00:43:04.639
<v Speaker 3>if it's just kind of these feelings that you have.

795
00:43:04.760 --> 00:43:08.320
<v Speaker 3>But when that Mama said, you know, hey, she wanted

796
00:43:08.360 --> 00:43:11.079
<v Speaker 3>to not go tonight, but I made her go because

797
00:43:11.119 --> 00:43:14.280
<v Speaker 3>she made a commitment. Absolutely, you said you're going to

798
00:43:14.320 --> 00:43:16.679
<v Speaker 3>watch their baby, They're going to the game. You have

799
00:43:16.760 --> 00:43:21.159
<v Speaker 3>to go. No one would have thought that that evening

800
00:43:21.199 --> 00:43:23.360
<v Speaker 3>was going to end in any other way but her

801
00:43:23.400 --> 00:43:27.599
<v Speaker 3>walking home with some extra spending money, and yet Mom

802
00:43:27.679 --> 00:43:30.239
<v Speaker 3>starts to feel as the night goes on something's wrong,

803
00:43:30.800 --> 00:43:34.239
<v Speaker 3>and sure enough, you see where Evelyn's not only taken

804
00:43:34.280 --> 00:43:38.079
<v Speaker 3>from the house, but there's significant injury to her because

805
00:43:38.119 --> 00:43:41.159
<v Speaker 3>of the pools of blood, the smears of blood in

806
00:43:41.199 --> 00:43:44.800
<v Speaker 3>different places. It's leaving a lot of evidence behind, which

807
00:43:44.840 --> 00:43:47.800
<v Speaker 3>indicates to me that higher level of injury, which then

808
00:43:47.800 --> 00:43:50.079
<v Speaker 3>would escalate to me to a murder, even if it

809
00:43:50.119 --> 00:43:52.800
<v Speaker 3>was just starting as a sexual assault or abduction.

810
00:43:54.159 --> 00:43:56.320
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, this is not the only case I've seen where

811
00:43:56.360 --> 00:43:58.840
<v Speaker 1>a victim's family has said that they had this horrible

812
00:43:58.880 --> 00:44:02.320
<v Speaker 1>gut feeling at the approximate, exact moment when their loved

813
00:44:02.320 --> 00:44:06.000
<v Speaker 1>one was likely getting murdered or abducted. And usually, like

814
00:44:06.079 --> 00:44:08.000
<v Speaker 1>ninety nine point nine percent of the time, when you

815
00:44:08.039 --> 00:44:11.599
<v Speaker 1>have those horrible gut feelings, nothing bad does happen, or

816
00:44:11.679 --> 00:44:14.199
<v Speaker 1>something minor happens. But this just happened to be one

817
00:44:14.199 --> 00:44:17.519
<v Speaker 1>of the rare ones where she had that gut feeling

818
00:44:17.599 --> 00:44:20.280
<v Speaker 1>at the exact moment when her daughter became the victim

819
00:44:20.320 --> 00:44:22.480
<v Speaker 1>of a violent crime. And I'm sure a hauntedor for

820
00:44:22.519 --> 00:44:24.280
<v Speaker 1>the rest of her life that she did pick up

821
00:44:24.320 --> 00:44:26.760
<v Speaker 1>the phone and check on Evelyn, because who knows if

822
00:44:26.760 --> 00:44:28.960
<v Speaker 1>things might have turned out differently if she had phoned

823
00:44:29.039 --> 00:44:30.599
<v Speaker 1>while the intruder was in the house.

824
00:44:31.719 --> 00:44:34.760
<v Speaker 2>And I feel even worse for her too, because Evelyn,

825
00:44:35.000 --> 00:44:36.960
<v Speaker 2>you have to wonder did she have a gut feeling

826
00:44:37.000 --> 00:44:39.519
<v Speaker 2>that something bad was going to happen. Is that why

827
00:44:39.599 --> 00:44:41.800
<v Speaker 2>she wanted to back out of the babysitting job or

828
00:44:41.880 --> 00:44:43.719
<v Speaker 2>was it just because she was a kid being a

829
00:44:43.800 --> 00:44:46.239
<v Speaker 2>kid and maybe wanted to go to the homecoming game.

830
00:44:46.599 --> 00:44:49.840
<v Speaker 2>But that's just another layer of what her poor mother

831
00:44:49.920 --> 00:44:52.440
<v Speaker 2>had to deal with, is that her daughter didn't want

832
00:44:52.480 --> 00:44:55.119
<v Speaker 2>to do this, but because she was trying to instill

833
00:44:55.239 --> 00:44:58.960
<v Speaker 2>good values and responsibility, she insisted upon her following through.

834
00:44:59.480 --> 00:45:01.880
<v Speaker 2>And so only did she not call at that time,

835
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<v Speaker 2>but she also insisted upon the job in the first place.

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<v Speaker 2>So my heart really breaks for this family.

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<v Speaker 1>So I think this would be a good time to

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<v Speaker 1>bring it into part one. But join us next week

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<v Speaker 1>as we present part two of our series about the

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00:45:14.719 --> 00:45:16.360
<v Speaker 1>disappearance of Evelyn Hardley.

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<v Speaker 4>Robin, do you want to tell us a little bit

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00:45:19.239 --> 00:45:20.719
<v Speaker 4>about the Trail Went Cold Patreon?

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00:45:21.480 --> 00:45:23.840
<v Speaker 1>Yes, the Trail Cold Patreon has been around for three

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00:45:23.880 --> 00:45:27.639
<v Speaker 1>years now, and we offer these standard bonus features like

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00:45:27.719 --> 00:45:31.119
<v Speaker 1>early ad free episodes, and I also send out stickers

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00:45:31.159 --> 00:45:33.960
<v Speaker 1>and sign thank you cards to anyone who signs up

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00:45:34.000 --> 00:45:36.559
<v Speaker 1>with us on Patreon if you join our five dollars

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00:45:36.639 --> 00:45:40.719
<v Speaker 1>tier Tier two, we also offer monthly bonus episodes in

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00:45:40.719 --> 00:45:43.880
<v Speaker 1>which I talk about cases which are not featured on

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00:45:43.920 --> 00:45:46.719
<v Speaker 1>The Trail Went Cold's original feed, so they're exclusive to

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00:45:46.760 --> 00:45:49.880
<v Speaker 1>Patreon and if you join our highest tier tier three,

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00:45:49.960 --> 00:45:52.719
<v Speaker 1>the ten dollars tier. One of the features we offer

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00:45:52.960 --> 00:45:57.400
<v Speaker 1>is a audio commentary track over classic episodes of Unsawved Mysteries,

854
00:45:57.639 --> 00:46:00.599
<v Speaker 1>where you can download an audio file and then boot

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00:46:00.679 --> 00:46:03.880
<v Speaker 1>up the original Unsolved Mysteries episode on Amazon Prime or

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00:46:03.920 --> 00:46:07.320
<v Speaker 1>YouTube and play it with my audio commentary playing in

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00:46:07.320 --> 00:46:10.440
<v Speaker 1>the background, where I just provide trivia and factoids about

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00:46:10.480 --> 00:46:13.920
<v Speaker 1>the cases featured in this episode. And incidentally, the very

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00:46:13.920 --> 00:46:16.760
<v Speaker 1>first episode that I did a commentary track over was

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00:46:16.800 --> 00:46:19.559
<v Speaker 1>the episode featuring this case. So if you want to

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00:46:19.599 --> 00:46:22.320
<v Speaker 1>download a commentary track in which I make more smart

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00:46:22.360 --> 00:46:25.360
<v Speaker 1>ass remarks about Jewel Kaylor, then be sure to join

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00:46:25.440 --> 00:46:26.159
<v Speaker 1>Tier three.

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00:46:26.360 --> 00:46:27.880
<v Speaker 5>So I want to let you know a little bit

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00:46:27.920 --> 00:46:30.880
<v Speaker 5>about the Jules and Nashty patreons. So there's early ad

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00:46:30.880 --> 00:46:33.800
<v Speaker 5>free episodes of The Path Went Chili we've got our

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00:46:33.800 --> 00:46:36.800
<v Speaker 5>Pathwent Chili mini's, which are always over an hour, so

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00:46:36.840 --> 00:46:38.960
<v Speaker 5>they're not very mini, but they're just too short to

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00:46:39.000 --> 00:46:41.920
<v Speaker 5>turn into a series, and we're really enjoying doing those,

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00:46:42.000 --> 00:46:44.119
<v Speaker 5>so we hope you'll check out those patreons.

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00:46:44.159 --> 00:46:45.639
<v Speaker 4>We'll link them in the show notes.

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00:46:46.159 --> 00:46:48.039
<v Speaker 1>So I want to thank you all for listening, and

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00:46:48.159 --> 00:46:50.519
<v Speaker 1>any chance you have to share us on social media

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00:46:50.599 --> 00:46:52.920
<v Speaker 1>with a friend or to rate and review is greatly

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00:46:52.920 --> 00:46:55.719
<v Speaker 1>appreciate it. You can email us at the Pathwentchili at

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00:46:55.719 --> 00:46:58.480
<v Speaker 1>gmail dot com. You can reach us on Twitter at

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00:46:58.599 --> 00:47:01.360
<v Speaker 1>the Pathwin. So until next time, be sure to bundle

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00:47:01.440 --> 00:47:04.880
<v Speaker 1>up because cold trails and chilly pass call for warm clothing.

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<v Speaker 4>Music by Paul Rich from the podcast Cold Callers Comedy
