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Now let's dive in to today's episode. I'd like to
welcome to the show, Melissa Taddll Hi you do, Melissa good.
Speaker 2: How are you. I'm so happy to be here.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for coming on the show. I'm
excited to talk to you about your knowledge about ancient
civilizations and your new movie Coach twelve, which I'm excited
to get into as well. But first of all, how
did you get interested in this world of ancient civilizations
and codes and simulation theory and all that kind of
cool stuff.
Speaker 2: You know, I've always been a weird kid, so I've
always been like in a sci fi big tomboy into
comic books, and you know, it's just like a weird kid,
big imagination. As I got older, I chose my profession
as a journalist TV and film. There's a lot of
obviously things going on in the world that I could
have angled my career towards. But to me, I found
that most of the answers that I was seeking to
solve by doing journalism was mostly in the unknown, because
there you can really pontificate on how humanity should solve
a problem. By being in a place that doesn't necessarily
put you in the exact war or the exact situation,
it allows people to work through their problems. So what
I found was was that the idea of extraterrestrial interdimensional
beings or ancient civilizations kind of unraveling these ancient mysteries
had more to do with solving our modern day problem
than it did solving how old is this piece of rock?
To me, it was like they have left behind such
unique structures for us to really pontificate on the future
of humanity there and even in stories that I've covered
with the aliens and that kind of thing, that it's
all part of that bigger picture of where are we
going as a human race? And so I don't know,
I just couldn't look back. After I kind of started
to look at things that way, I thought, this is
way more interesting, and I feel like I have more
of an impact on people and how they're supposed to
live their lives.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's really interesting too, because in many ways we've
walked similar pasts, not as much journalism, but I've been
in the film industry for so many years, and storytelling
and everything is I started getting into ancient civilizations and
sci fi and all these other kind of worlds. It
was my interest was about not just the rocks, old
rocks or old buildings, but how it was connected to
everything as a grander story. Because some of these monuments,
some of these stories, ancient texts, all this stuff. You
start digging deeper and deeper, it's just an endless hole,
a rabbit hole that you walk go down. It's just endless.
It takes multiple lifetimes to go through all of this stuff.
Speaker 2: Would you agree, Yeah, It probably takes multiple lifetimes of
you living it for you to remember what it was
that you were even teaching or absorbing or saw. We have,
you know, Graham Hancock put it best. We are living
in a state of amnesia at all times. And the
reason we're still attracted to things like the Great Pyramid,
or the temples in Greece and Egypt and all over
the world, and the ancient stories and the things that
have been told over and over and over and over again,
is because we do know, but we can't convince ourselves
that it's real the things that they are saying, because
we have programmed our selves to not think it's real.
For some reason, we have decided to create our consciousness
in a way that does not allow for expansion, and
that is we're not fighting another being in another dimension.
We are fighting ourselves on what we believe consciousness to be.
Speaker 1: Do you believe that is by design? Yes?
Speaker 2: And no. In my movie Code twelve, I give some
a hypothesis for if there was a simulation, if there
was a structure to how we think and why we exist,
who created it? And I bring up the idea of
the Emerald Tablets with Toath and how the fall of
Atlantist then caused Toath to take action create that. This
is in the Emerald Tablets create the Great Pyramid, and
then the Great Pyramid helped to create a structure of
frequency that we aret thou now under. The reason being
it was a good reason at the time, was because
Atlantis fell because people are beings were misusing the power
of what Atlantis stood for and therefore allowing lower dimensional
beings to come in through our structure and inhabit our bodies,
not because they're bad, like we're still looking at things
a bad or good, but because they're in a lower
dimension and they have to feed just like we have
to feed on what dimension we're in. Right, this was
a problem because now humans were being taken over by
these lower dimensional beings. So he creates this good system,
cuts it all off. None of them can come back in.
The problem is we're cut off now from our eternal
potentiality as a bean. And in that story, if that's true,
it was for a good reason, but we lost all
connection with all those things that we knew of how
the universe worked, and our potentiality and who we were.
And this is why people are so obsessed with Atlantis.
They have to get back to this point, you know,
they want to get back to the point of which
they knew how the universe works worked. And that makes
more sense to me that we are somebody might have
created it for possible good, but now we believed in
it so much for so long that our consciousness, our
bodies can't exist beyond the structure that it was created
and that we believe is true.
Speaker 1: Would you agree that at this time, though, the consciousness
of humanity is shifting to where these conversations are becoming
much more. This information has become a much more readily available.
Where twenty years ago, thirty years ago, shows like the
ones you produced for Gaya Ancient Civilizations would have never
in a million Graham Hancock would have never been allowed
to even speak, let alone do what he did, and
or shows like this wouldn't be even accepted that were
people were even ready even if you got to broadcast them.
So would you agree that that's happening right now? We're
kind of moving towards a higher state of consciousness.
Speaker 2: Yes, it's so funny. Someone just asked me question, if
we are living in a simulation, why aren't we all
dying off because the simulation wants to stop people from
figuring out it's a simulation. And I said, well, I
don't think that that's the case. I think that there
was a programming in there that wants us to see
how we are living our lives, like really be able
to because we need to expand we're bursting. We've literally
run all the storylines that can possibly exist within our
current program and we keep and we keep doing it
over and over again, and people are wising up to it. Okay,
we're in another war We're in another situation of hate,
We're in another depression, We're in another blah blah blah.
Money is this and you know, people are just hat
it like in mass levels, and that is causing chaos,
but it's also causing a new consciousness to emerge. And
I totally agree with you, and that's why I think
that everything is reprogrammable and that right now we're at
a case of like, this doesn't make sense. We are
not in a place yet we've decided, well, what is
the future of humanity going to be? There's just a
lot of people upset, which is you never read the
book Power Versus Force. It's uh yeah, right, so they
had that, they had that chart, right, the chart starts
with like, I don't know what the bottom is, but
grief and you know, anger, And so here we are.
We're at like level you know, seventy five, which is
anger and that's resentment, you know. But each of these
is a level up, right, and then you level up
to hope and then and then at the very top
it's bliss. It's it's you know, and that's like seven
hundred and fifty. So right now, if we're at if
we're in talking numbers. We're at seventy five because we're
angry and there's no one going to stop us. We
as a human race, as conscious beings within a structure,
have to build that have to get to that next
level of what that is, and we are definitely on
the road to that for sure. And these conversations help
the help more people become their eternal selves.
Speaker 1: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
and now back to the show. And when you say
we've done this again and again, I mean there's been
story upon story about the rise and fall, the rise
and fall, the Enlightenment and the opposite of enlightenment, and constant,
constant going back and forth. I mean in the ancient
texts of the Beta texts, they talk about the Yugas
and that the cycle of twenty four thousand years, and
Graham Hancock has been talking about it because now those
what he's finding in ancient monuments is starting to back
up the concepts of this twenty four or twenty six
thousand year cycle that we're in. According to the Yugas,
where like the Dark Ages was the worst, Like that's
as bad as we could get as a species. Nothing
happened for five or six hundred years, like it was
just death in Mayhem for five and then slowly the Renaissance,
and now we're starting to come back up to this
enlightened place where we could argue Atlantis, let's say, was
close to that space. Can you explain that a little
bit from your findings of all the stuff that you've
researched over the years about this constant creation destruction, creation, destruction, creation, destructure,
And it's in nature for God's sakes, I mean, it's
it's everywhere. It's literally being projected to us all the time.
Speaker 2: Yes, definitely. So in my documentary Code twelve, we talk
about the importance of to really two pieces of ancient
history that repeat itself all the time, and I do
think it has to do with our structure. Also the
twenty six hundred years of all the zodiac times and
then you start all over again, right, and this is
why ancient temples and pyramids are all attached to equinoxes,
and you know they're really tracking where are we in
the you know, Hindu the Yuga, where are we in
the structure of of this this massive overhaul for humanity
for twenty six hundred years approximately The two symbols are
concentric circles, and the other is a numerical twelve, right,
so twelve times twelve is twenty four. It's a it's
a if you look at an infinity loop, right, it's like,
you know, two existences together type of thing. So why
is this important? The structure of time is in a circle.
The way we live, our life is linear, so that
means we're in the system. Those twelve points on the circle,
like a wheel, are the twelve zodiacs that align us
to the system. It's all the same system. The twenty
six thousand, five hundred years. Look at it this way,
is your ability as a human race to gain enlightenment.
After that, you start all over. It's like a game.
Did you get to the end? And if you didn't,
after a certain amount of time, you go back right
and and this this is an ancient text because we
have not been able to do that, right, We have
a chance now for I think we have what two
about twenty two hundred, two thousand, five hundred.
Speaker 1: Years, right, something like that, something like that.
Speaker 2: Okay, Well, obviously, as Melissa Tittle in this body, I
am not going to be around, but you know, maybe
I will in a different body. But this is very important.
You know, if we're on a scale and we're starting here,
we really think about it. If we've been below the
power versus forest chart from you know, the top is
seven hundred and fifty or something and we're at seventy
five and we are below that, I mean, we got
a lot to do in a short amount of time.
If you think about the Yugos, the twenty six five,
five hundred years. But the ancients knew this and it
was so important to constantly feed the information. They also
knew that we were going to as a human race.
They predicted we would go through these these hard times.
And that is why the ancient teachings are so important
to all of us because we know that they knew
something that's not accepted in our modern culture. Definitely more
so even five years ago. People are opening up. They
want to know more, they want to be part of
whatever it is because people are ready. But this is
this is why they left it. They carved it in stone,
they left it behind. The Native Americans have oral traditions
that are specifically memorized to be passed down that we'd
never forget. Where we can be if we're able to
see things differently. I always think that, let's say, at
year twelve thousand, five hundred, we hit alignment, way before
the whole cycle starts over again. I think we break
out of it. I think that the system doesn't exist anymore.
I think that the whole structure of time of twelve twelve,
you know, twelve points on a clock, twelve zodiac, the
idea that the in the duat, there's twelve hours of
the night, there's twelve hours of the day, right Like,
all of these will go away, all of it won't exist,
will be in complete different kind of universal existence. And
that is what the ancients want to leave behind. We
don't have to wait till the last day of the
twenty six thousand and five hundred to finally be like
everything's great, I'm so joyful. No, no, no, no. The point
is to break the system, to get out, become your internal.
Speaker 1: So these ancient monuments have been left behind, you know,
it seems almost like they left certain ones behind that
could absolutely withstand the test of time, the pyramids being
a great example of that, and not just the Great
Pyramids and the Great Pyramid in Giza, the Pyramids of Giza,
but also pyramids in a car and and and in
the Central America, and all of these, all these kind
of structures that are not easily dismissed. You can dismiss
ancient texts arguably, but it's difficult to go a wait
a minute, how the heck the matropitri get made, How
the heck the Chichenitza get done? How the heck the
Great Pyramids get made in a time when they were
literally supposedly unsophisticated to a point where we can't even
redo the Great Pyramid today. I know a lot of
people argue that thought, oh yeah, we could do, like
are you out the kind of precise alignment? And not
only that, then you start looking at the codes that
are embedded in those monuments, like if I'm not mistaken,
the height of the pyramid, if you multiply by a
certain numbers, the width of the earth or something along
those lines, and these kind of codes are embedded in it.
Where do you do you agree with that these things
would be left behind for us as kind of almost
markers in time to go. No, guys, look deeper, because
you can't dismiss that. You could burn ancient text can
really burn the Great period. They've tried to destroy many times.
Speaker 2: And Napoleon blew a hole in the side of it.
But thanks to him, we can actually get in and
you know, meditations in the chain the King's chamber.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly exactly, you know, but yeah, but that's but
you know, so thank you Napoleon, I guess for that.
But without that we wouldn't have never been able to
get inside of it. And there's still things inside of it,
arguably that they have not been discovered yet, you know
that they're still trying to figure out. It's it's fascinating.
So all of these even gopecley Tepe, which completely moves
our human timeline behind. What do you see? Where do
you see this all going? Why did they leave all
of these things behind? And why are they encoded with
so much information that we're slowly trying to decode.
Speaker 2: Now, Well, go but whatever's at the bottom of Goebeci Teppe,
I don't think they wanted us to find, so I'm
very interested when they finally get to the bottom, it
just blows my mind. They're not there yet. Yes, it's
so crazy to me.
Speaker 1: Well, that whole mountain has about the whole Mountain's a
ton more of them in there, right, gopechy Tepe is
just like one. There's a bunch more of those.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they were intentionally buried, So whatever is down there,
they did not want us to find. And I think
that it's so ripe for this time, right that we're
like on the brink of all these discoveries and you know,
it's really you just brought out the Great Pyramid. I
find it fascinating that they have all this technology and
they just found another corridor, another room or something like
that in the yeah, in the Great Pyramid, that they
just keep finding things randomly. I mean, maybe they're holding
back the material until the right time, But does it
does it exist or are they is it making itself
known all of a sudden within our dimension?
Speaker 1: It just the whole because it's time, because it's time.
We can accept this information now, or we can use
this information. If this information would have been released five
hundred years ago. And it's kind of like if someone
got the idea for the iPhone one hundred years ago,
two hundred years ago, people we weren't ready yet to
even deal with that. Would that make sense?
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, no, definitely, It's funny about the iPhone. I
was reading an article published by somebody at JPL in
Pasadena from like nineteen fifty and they're like pretty soon,
and the article said, man predicts we'll be talking, Well,
we'll be talking to we'll be talking to our wrists
in our and our phones in our hand.
Speaker 1: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
and now back to the show.
Speaker 2: And it was like it was like, you know how
they write those funny like fifties like ha ha, you know,
and he scientists was like, yeah, everyone's going to have
like their own phone and they're gonna be able to
like hall and FaceTime. And he doesn't use the word FaceTime,
but you'll be able to see people in the phone
and walk around and.
Speaker 1: And I just thought, yeah, those are the seeds. Those
are the seeds. Well, I mean, look but sci Fi
is the seeds. I mean, if it wasn't for you know,
h G. Wells, I don't think we have a space program.
You know, those books inspired a generation. And then when
when we went to the you know, the whole sixties
going to the Moon thing, that inspired a whole other
general and then Star Wars and Star Trek and even
Dick Tracy talking into his into his into his watch
back in the early eighteen hundreds. Now we do that.
It's all it comes through story a lot of times,
these ideas that eventually get it turned into something a
little bit more material.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, And I feel like the ancients knew that.
So I think a lot of and a lot of people.
I don't know if you've been to any ancient sites
or anything like that, Okay, so you know that when
you go to certain ancient sites you feel something different.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and.
Speaker 2: It's different for each person, right, Like, for instance, I
didn't have the best energy in the Great Pyramid, but
there have been places in Egypt that were just mind
blowing for me. But you do feel something different, right,
So there's some kind of energy harnessing of all these places.
Whether you're in Peru, you're in Egypt, you're in India,
you're in a vortex spot in the Four Corners in
Native American territory, there's places where you're in touch with
what the ancient people are talking about. And these places
are sacred not because of what they built there, but
because of the information that can come through if you're
open to receiving.
Speaker 1: So from your research, what are some of the codes
that have been discovered that are embedded in some of
the more famous some of the more famous monuments, ancient
monuments around the world.
Speaker 2: I think the famous codes, and a lot of people
know this is the sacred geometry and the connection to
pie and pie and the Golden mean. Most temples are
calculated to harness that energy, which every piece of life
is kind of calculated on the Golden mean. Everything your body,
the plants in your house, your animals, you know, everything
everything around us matters created this way. They're able to
harness that energy. I think that's the sacred the sacred stuff.
But I think the most interesting thing for me is
that that's been talked about since the beginning of spirituality,
which was Madame Bolvovski, right, this understanding of how everything's
calculated this way. What I'm more interested in is what
are we not seeing? Okay, so that's calculating, but what's
underneath that calculation, what's beyond that calculation that we are
not seeing? And a lot of that is up for
interpretation because you have all these amazing symbols all over
the world, and people give you their interpretations of what
they mean. I think that beyond the structure of the
Golden Mean, there is another code that is the actual
structure of what we're living in. The golden mean is like,
think of it this way. The Golden Mean is the
is how everything is coded that we know right now.
But then there's something else that codes a bigger part
of the universe, and that is what I'm more interested in.
And I find more of that code actually attached to
more feminine temples, feminine language. It's like that, it's like
that chaos, It's like that Sophia. It's this other thing
that no one has been able to really dive into
that has a completely different calculation of how things exist
on this planet. And I think it's I think why
it hasn't really been talked about is because it's not
something we're looking for. It doesn't fit into the pattern
of which everything is created. But if we are eternal
and we exist within all space and time at the
same part, this code is that.
Speaker 1: So in other words, we've been focusing on the code
for the program, but not the code for the operating
system exactly exactly, And that's everyone's focusing so much on
the program that no one's go away to minute. What's
the program running on?
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, exactly, exactly an Apple or are we on
a Microsoft computer? Like, what are we doing?
Speaker 1: Exactly? Is this Windows ninety five or is this System seven?
Like what is Sorry geeking out a little bit on
old technology. But no, that's a very good point. That's
a very good point. One thing that is, and you
mentioned this earlier, that is another fascinating aspect of a
lot of these ancient monuments and ancient civilizations is their
obsession with the sky, obsession with the cosmos, obsession with
the alignments of stars and equinoxes and all of this
kind of stuff. Why do you think what does that
say about the ancients that I mean, they're just so
focused on the on the sky and specifically stars where
I think it's in the Great Pyramid, like the almost
perfect do North or something along those lines, if I'm
not mistaken, the way it's aligned, and at a certain time,
I mean, I mean I was a chichen Itza and
twice a year in the equinoxes, a snake appears on
the steps of Chichenitza. Do you understand what insanity that is?
To understand the timing? How to structure, it where to
put things. It hurts the brain for us to do
it today, let alone to have that kind of insight
back then. So what is your thoughts on that.
Speaker 2: Well, I'm going to say something really simple. It's just
not sexy. But I feel that the ancients were very
in touch with the harmony of nature, the harmony the stars,
the harmony of our positioning with the equinoxes the zodiac,
like there was harmony there. We the only people concerned
about the equinoxes are a couple of people that want
to stand outside and see if they can see something.
Or you're in the conscious space and you get together
and you do a meditation, and but but it's not
like a it's not an accepted thing where it becomes
like an event like it probably was in ancient times.
Because they were in harmony with these these events within
the structure of how they were living. We are not,
we are not in harmony with that and and their harmony.
I use the word harmony because it is an under
it's a greater understanding of where they are and how
everything works together. Right now, we look and fear at
all that we're like okay, and then it's there, and
then it's here, and then it's there. But we have
it all separated and it's not congruent. I mean, I imagine
ancient civilizations were talking about science and spirituality and channeling
aliens and all sorts of stuff all together in the
same house. And they weren't all separated science and existence.
They they were the phenomenon and so was that up there,
and they were all together in it. But we have
separated ourselves from that. It's happening up there, we're here.
We get to see it. That's great moving on, you know,
even if in the conscious space you're like, Okay, well
you're Sagittarius, and that means and therefore that there wasn't
any harmony with with the existence of the stars, and
I just I think that's really what it really what
it is. It was. It was more a joy of
being alive and being with all of the things then
I'm not sure, and then being fearful of all the
things and keeping it separated.
Speaker 1: And so that Yeah, I mean, that makes sense what
you're saying, without question the but but the thing that
just blows my mind is how did they do it?
How do they have the knowledge to be able to
create these structures and in a way that we don't
even understand today.
Speaker 2: What what's frequencies? I mean a lot of I mean
a lot of these stars. You can find some of
this on YouTube, sure, because people have done work on it.
Not that many people look into it, but each star
has a frequency that we still feel from Earth, and
I think that they were in touch with that in
such a way. I mean, we find ancient instruments in
every temple. I mean they've been able to lay that
out of what kind of instruments they had and how
they played it and all the kind stuff. But I
don't think we really dove into like, well why and how?
And I think that they knew how to use sound
and frequency to not only and this is also a
theory by many people, but to move stone, to move structure,
to create from this this body that we have that's
connected to this eternity that we live in. I think
that they used frequency for that. That's the only way
to be so exact, I mean, to create something out
of ego, to create I mean we're just talking about
stone right now, We're just talking about all the temples
that we're just kind of blown up. Whether you're South America, Egypt, whatever,
it doesn't matter. Like you're just like, what how did
they do this?
Speaker 1: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
and now back to the show.
Speaker 2: Think about it. If if the theory in Egypt is
they got a bunch of slaves and they're like, you know,
wheel all this stuff together and put it. I mean
at some point you're like, you know, he's my guys,
my master's never going to announce, just to stick the
router and just put some stuff, and it's all there
like it was. There's none of that. There's not even
one imperfection. And then even in these temples in South America,
there's not one imperfection. There's a crack now because it's older,
there's an earthquake, but there's nothing. There's still aqueducts running.
And that kind of perfection comes from something more pure
than than doing things to do things. And I think
that's the harness scene of this. These frequencies, what those
exact frequencies are to do exactly what they did. I
don't even think we know how that works. There's lots
of people don't research on it, but to connect all
the dots to create to create that with the human consciousness,
we barely scratch a service.
Speaker 1: Well and it's it's it'd be the equivalent of, you know,
one hundred of years or two hundred let's say, five
hundred years from now, someone finds this iPhone and they're
going to be like, well, what was what was that about?
You know, if let's say they can if everything, all
the information is gone, let's say, and they just find
a bunch of these, they'll be like, what is this?
What were they using for this? What was this magic box?
And that could be said with a bunch of our
technology now, because we have no frame of reference and
we only and I think one of the biggest problems
we have, especially people today, is they look back at
the ancients and they look at it through the lens
of the technology we have today, and they don't foresee
things like frequency because to them, they're like, oh, that's
hocus pocus, where it's it could be much more powerful
than the iPhone, could be much more powerful than a
nuclear weapon that we have today, or so on. Would
you agree with that?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that in places like CERN and some
other scientific communities, I think they do know this and
they're working on it. For the rest of us, we're
just trying to meditate to you know, frequencies that we download,
you know, to put us in a meditative state. But
all of that is the same thing. It's just on
a bigger scale. And then it's using all of the
resources crystals, you know, it's not just man made stuff.
I mean, I think science communities are fully aware of
the potential of all of this, but I still think
they haven't figured out what frequencies do what that. They
are definitely aware of this, and they're definitely not going
to tell us until they figured it out.
Speaker 1: Well. But yeah, so if you go into there's some
structures in South America which I was around, and the
stones are all weirdly they're not like, you know, four
foot by four foot four foot, but no, that's all
different sizes, but they all fit perfectly together. And then
I was watching a video the other day where let's
say there's a corner the stone would corner like it
would like the stone. It wouldn't be like a stone
and a stone. It would be like a stone cornering
around and then it would pick up here and it
would go all the way through. It's not like filler
or anything, because an earthquake happened and a couple of
them shook off, and they looked inside and like Jesus,
that goes all the way through, that goes all the
way in. It's not like someone just jams something in
to get the corner in. It is such perfection and
it's such weird shapes. I'd love to hear your theory
on how the hell did they build something like that,
because at least the Pyramids they're giant granite blocks, but
some of the stuff in South America and another ancient sites,
they almost looked like they were poured in, like they
melted the rock, pored in molds and connect because it
doesn't even the paper piece a paper doesn't fit in
between these rocks. It's absolutely mind blowing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I don't have any evidence for that.
I mean, I guess everything we're talking about we don't
have any evidence for so, but I mean that could
be something. I mean, if you're able to create a
higher entropy on matter and being able to manipulate it,
you know, from rock to liquid and then put it
back together into a lower entropy, and you figure that
out through frequency, I mean, I mean God, anything's possible.
I do agree though that it's it's pretty fascinating. In
South America they had those key holes too, where everything
just fits perfectly, like barely anything in between. And you're
like they had those in the a Siren Temple as well,
like the Underground Temple. And Egypt is behind Avidos they
have those keyhole things. It's like someone from Peru just
came over. They're like, let me show you my technique
where I built the rock and put.
Speaker 1: It in there. There's that, and there's another another area
in India, which, oh my god, these temples that have
been carved out of a mountain, like they're just caught
like they literally, but it's an entire temple that was
carved from the rock. It wasn't no rock was brought in.
It was carved out perfectly. So there's a temple inside
of it of a mountain. Multiple I think there's like
seven or eight of them in a complex. And yet
they cannot find the stone anywhere, Like that's a lot
of stone being removed. It would still be around, they
wouldn't have hauled it off hundreds of miles away. It's
nowhere to be found, So what the hell? Happened. How
did they do that with rooms and everything you have?
Speaker 2: You know, not just that that one specifically, but even
in the valley of the Incas, as you know, before
you get to Machu Pichi, there's tons of temples on
the way there. I wrote an Ancient Aliens episode where
we were talking about specifically only in Tintambo, which is
the temple to the Sun, it still has natural running
aquifer action or aqueducts still that the stone from there
was taken another valley away, which means they'd have to
roll it over the mountain, go roll it down the
valley the valley of the Incos, which is pretty steep,
and then roll it up the mountain side to put
it in there. And so one of the things that
I tested was like, okay, well maybe humans actually did this.
They found because they needed a certain stone, right, this
is this is the thing to make that temple in India.
To find those blue sarcen stones if for a stonehenge
that are in the middle, they were specific they came
from hundreds of miles away, right And for this these
stones to build this temple in the valley Ladinkas needed
to come from another valley away. Okay, makes sense. So
humans like drug it up the hill. So we went
to a quarry. We you know, we had the weight
of the largest one, right, so one of those was
like seven or eight tons, and we had them roll
it down the hill in this quarry and it shattered
into like a million pieces. Like even if you were
like trying to like hold back the gravity of that
rock right to bring it to be carved, it's just
absolutely ridiculous. It makes no sense. It's it's as if
like you're saying, somebody something found the stones and was
able to carry it. But that's not possible with all
we know about space and time right now and how
the universe works, is not possible with the physics we understand.
And that's what I'm saying, there's something else out there
that operates in a different level. Why do you like UFOs?
That makes no sense. Alien interactions, interdimensional means none of
that has anything to do with the physics of which
we exist right now in this time and space, which
means something else is out there that can interact with
our dimension of time and space and can come in
and out understanding that big code, and ancients tapped into
that bigger code that I'm talking about outside of the
one that's the Golden Mean, and we're able to use
that to create the things that we can't figure out
within our means of modern technology.
Speaker 1: How old do you think some of these are, these
these ancient sites are, because I mean, if we are
we are if we're to believe that the Pyramids were
done in Egypt, what six thousand years ago something like that,
you know, if you're feeling froggy eight thousand years ago,
if you really want to get outside the world of like,
you know, the general timeline. But now we're starting to
figure out that some of some actually archaeologists who are
bold enough to say it, they're like, could be up
to thirteen thousand years ago, but arguably could be twenty
six thousand years old, and going, you know, going again
these cycles. It keeps seeing like thirteen thousand, twenty six thousand,
you know, these kind of numbers. What do you think,
because what do you think the agees of like Machu
Pichu chit Chu nitsacause that says, oh, that's twelve hundred
years old, fifteen hundred years old. I'm like, I don't know,
what do you think?
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, let's just look at our modern day existence.
I'm on the East coast, I'm outside New York City.
I have a house from the eighteen hundreds. You know
what they've been doing to this house since eighteen hundreds.
They've been building on They've been building structures. They've redone
the outside, like I have like a nice sun room
in the back, you know what I mean, that's not
an eighteen hundreds thing. I think that these spots always
had ancient temples on maybe thirty forty thousand years ago.
But then maybe the view that we're looking at is
the modern sun room, right, the fifteen hundred version where
they did some some they did some they did some fixes,
and they were able to be like, Okay, well this
is definitely the fifteen hundreds from whatever sample they took.
But the original design I think is much older, and
that's been there and I mean, you just see that
and just modern day in Oh my god, I cannot
forget that. I'm forgetting the name of the town. You
start the inca trail.
Speaker 1: At Oh god, I forgot the name. But I know
what you're saying. I know I don't remember the name,
but the town we'll call it the town, the Inca.
Speaker 2: Town, the town, the town, and rue it starts saying, contrail,
I can't believe, I forget that.
Speaker 1: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor.
And now back to the show.
Speaker 2: You could see in town that they had amazing Inca
temples that they just cut the tops off and put
a church on. So you got half the church built
up as an Inca temple, and then they stuck a
church on it. And then of course the church now
had to be a little bit modern day updated, so
then they've updated that, and you could see the different
levels of years of Inca amazing, then next generation and
then pebbles right and then church right right. So I
think that that's what we're seeing here at these temples.
I think that the reason people are saying, hey, I
think they're much older is because they're looking at this
the alignments, the spirituality that the texts, the understanding, the
oral traditions, the symbols, and they're saying, wait a second,
this is much older. And people are saying, yeah, but
the building, the rock over here, this is fifteen hundred.
Maybe it is, maybe they had to replace something here
and there. But I think we're looking at something that
we don't even know how old it is.
Speaker 1: And if you look at I mean I've been to
I mean if you go to Rome, just a Roman
empire alone. I mean you go to Italy and you
walk around, it's a walking museum and they build things
on top of Roman stuff. You're like, oh, that was
old Roman this or Roman that. The Roman aquedoctx are
still around, you know, there's still it's driving around, you know,
in an uber And I'm like, is that the that's
the Roman aquedox. They're just hanging out there next to us,
next to a highway, you know, next to a highway
that they just built right next to it. So why
wouldn't that happen over thousands and thousands of years? Isn't
aren't there some there are some pyramids in Mexico that
they're discovering that there's many pyramids inside of each one
and they've kind of almost built on top of it,
on top of it, on top of it. Is that correct?
Speaker 2: Oh? Which side is that? I actually don't know that one.
Speaker 1: There's one in Mexico, but I know there's others around
the world that they actually have pyramid If they're doing
so onar and they're like, oh, wait a minute, there's
something underneath. Oh, and it goes underneath that. I saw
it in Graham's show Ancient. Yeah. I think he did
a couple of those. They just keep going down down.
They haven't gotten down as far as they can go yet,
but it looks like they just built on top of
a top of it, on top of it. So it's
it's just it's this big story.
Speaker 2: Russian doll of pyraid Russian the Russian.
Speaker 1: Dolls of Pyramids. Now, I wanted to ask you about
a culture that the first I ever heard of this
term was in Ghostbusters. Yeah, I love it. The Sumerian,
the Sumerian gods, you know people. Yeah, the heat Gozer
was a Sumerian god. Uh oh go yes, Gozer was
a see now we're geeking out hardcore. So yes, that
was the very first time I ever heard the word Sumerian.
And I'm like, who are the Sumerians? And then as
I got older, I started researching a little bit about
the Samerians. Can you talk about the Sumerians as a
culture and what they've brought to us? And I mean,
they're pretty mysterious. I'd love to hear your thoughts on them.
Speaker 2: Oh, the Sumerians, you know, as Graham Hancock says, it's
actually a curse word because like once you go down
that train, like you know what, he takes you seriously,
you know, and his profession, he like stays away from it,
like the plague. Like I can't even I can't even
say the word, the a word annochy. He's just like
I'm not.
Speaker 1: You can't talk, You can't say anything about the anarchy
God forbid, right, no pun intended.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it just gets too it gets too far down
a train of speculation. So the Samerians, I I you know,
besides the Onanaki, they have this amazing mythology that seems
to play out in our everyday lives all the time.
They really set the structure I think for our current civilization,
our financial systems, our our community systems, our hierarchy systems
that that I don't think that they're I think that
the Samerian culture really set that tone, you know, if
you really they were the first to create a civilization
that had certain rules and regulations that followed a certain thing.
And then of course that passes down to different areas
in the world. But this but they were very detailed
at recording all of them, whether it was how much
something costs, to how things go, what the law was,
how it works, and all that. And now that doesn't
mean that other ancient ancient civilizations, you know, maybe Atlantis, Hindu,
that doesn't mean. It's just that they recorded it so
well and that people were able to read it and
then copy their civilization after it. That's a good law.
I'm going to incorporate that. You know. It's like they
just they had the Amazon of books, right they they
wrote the civilization we have today down to all the
laws and regulations and how everything should be set up.
And so I think in a way there too to
be you know, that's really great and also to blame
thanks for all that. But it did organize people, and
it organized cities, and it organized trade, and that became
we became more worldwide in that way as a you know,
third dimensional human doing things with other humans. I think
it definitely created more laws and regulation for that. And
then of course then you have this spirituality side. You
have the Ananaki, you have these beings that come from
space that that kind of created humanity, messed with our genetics,
our DNA created this hybrid called home almost sapien And.
Speaker 1: This isn't this is an ancient text. By the way,
this is not sci fi. This is not sci fi.
This is an ancient text. And isn't it? Is it?
And isn't this kind of like always waved off as like, oh,
they were just writing stories. Really, do you know how
heart it was to write on those damn tablets. They're
not just gonna write your soul, that poor soul. Just
a little way for like, hey, let's let's tell a story, Like, no,
it doesn't seem like it. I think we should, And
you're right. Once you say the a word, it goes
down a very very long path. But but there has
to be some seeds there of that makes sense. So
I just wanted to let people know that this is
not just like, oh, this is a story that Melissa's
making up. No, no, this is not an ancient text.
And by the way, many other cultures have talked about
this similar or idea in Indian culture. I mean the
bag LaVita alone, I mean talking about blue beings and
all this kind of stuff in a time where you
guys just writing stories. Uh so is this Harry Potter?
Speaker 2: But like in the To Be Blue it's just like,
why why do we need to know the calculations of
Solomon's temple? I mean, thousands of years later, I'm not
building it, Like, why do we need to know it? Right,
it's the story of the people and their interactions with God.
But apparently this is what this is where it all
gets weird. It's like blue beans, Okay, did you have
to make the blues or reason it was blue? What's
with the calculations with the building sizes? And now we're
here to That's a lot of work to write a
story about these beings coming from from outer space or
creating humanity.
Speaker 1: The skies from the skies guys, Sorry, space sounds very scifiic.
You're right.
Speaker 2: So now we're in the Ananachi world of creation. I
think it's really important about the story that this this
the story of the two brothers. So the Onanaki, there's
there's any There's many players in the Ananachi, right. There's
a Nana who could be contributed to the first isis right.
She's kind of a creator goddess in charge of fertility
and agriculture. There's a couple other players. There's there's Daddy
anne Anew who never comes to Earth, because he's just like, whatever, here,
I'm going to send my two sons to, you know,
create this new life on Earth. And that's Inky and
in Lol Inky is is the serpent who tempts Eve
in the garden to eat the apple. He's all about knowledge,
you know. He sees this creation of Homo sapien as
a as not only an experiment, but but also for
them to gain their own knowledge, their own free will,
to understand what they're doing here. In Low, the other
brother is all about being a warlord, making sure they're slaves,
keeping them in the system. So here we have two diconomies,
six thousand years ago on the purpose of humanity, two
gods at war with each other. Eventually they went to
war with each other, one inviting humans to not be
slaves and learn about the universe and their free will,
and the other one saying, no, stay in line, otherwise
bad things will happen. So you have this good cup
bad cut situation going on that plays out in all
of our subconscious the duality of which we live in
all the time. Do I practice free will or do
I fall in line so I don't get in trouble?
Every thought, every thought that you ever have fits into
those two categories. And they wrote about that six thousand
years ago. Now do they write about that because they
wanted to find a story to fit in the duality
of humanity and then wrap their home culture around it
or was there a grain of truth in that story?
Speaker 1: It is something that we deal with every day. Obviously,
you and I are the troublemakers because we're not definitely
did not stand in line. But yeah, there are those two.
There's two kind of two kind of human beings. There's
people who stay in line, do what they're told, blah
blah blah. And then there's the rebel people of freethinkers.
But those people who are the freethinkers and kind of
blaze their own path is what moves humanity forward. Without them,
humanity doesn't evolve at all.
Speaker 2: Would you agree, Yeah, of course, of course. I mean
you always know the troublemaker in class. You know, he's
just he or she doesn't want to play by the rules. Right,
they become the next they become the next teacher, the
ones that can see outside the box. So they're both important.
Speaker 1: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
and now back to the show.
Speaker 2: Is I mean, have you watched the first for I
love the first season of Westworld? Have you seen it?
Speaker 1: I saw the first season of West World, yes, having
I didn't think I didn't keep going.
Speaker 2: But I did get the first season in West World,
and when you look at it this way is literally
the old story of Inky and in Law. So a
spoil alert. It's been on TV for a long time.
But if anybody hasn't seen it, I'm sorry. I'm gonna
tell you. The premise of the first season. The first
season is there's this whole game that's created that these
AI kind of robots. They're very human looking, they're alive,
they have like fake emotions, apparently they exist, and then
humans can just rent time in the park and go
shoot them or have sex with them or all sorts
of things, and it's like rich people do this. Now,
the game was created by two brothers. One is Anthony Hopkins,
who's still alive, making sure the robots are taken care
of and fixed and you know, they're all ready to
go for the next scene. And the other brothers not
alive anymore, and they both program the system. Now, what
you find out in the first season is that the
brothers not alive anymore. Specifically, put a codec or a
code within these AI human looking beings to wake them
up so that they would not comply anymore with the system.
That they were actually asking questions, why is it like this?
Why am I getting shot?
Speaker 1: Like?
Speaker 2: Or why do I feel something? And now all everyone's
in shock, They're like, what is happening? Why are they?
Why are they? Why are they waking up? And I
feel that that that in a way, if you think,
if we believe that we were created by these beings
or some other beings, or that we have a grid
and a toath is involved, or whatever the story may be,
that there is some part of us that is always
supposed to be curious, and it has been there since
the beginning of time and it will never cease to exist.
A psychologist once said that the greatest fault humanity, the
human race has, and the greatest achievements that they have
ever done, is by being curious. By being curious, we
left the cave right. By being curious, we got ourselves
in a lot of trouble, but without it we wouldn't
continue the human race. So this next curiosity, this next
phase of what humanity is this is this is the
thing that will not go away. It'll it'll wake you
up in the middle of the night. You can't escape it.
Speaker 1: It is the future.
Speaker 2: We are being prompted to discover our potentiality.
Speaker 1: Curiosity killed the cat that's years left, but we get
nine lives, so it's okay, it works out. No, you're
you're absolutely right. This this idea of the troublemaker, the
idea of moving forward. Well, let's talk about a troublemaker
in the past. This guy named Jesus, he was hanging around.
He was definitely a troublemaker big time. But there was
this there was this group that I've just recently started
to go into a little bit. And I know you've
done a lot of research on the Gnostics. Can you
explain to people who the Gnostics were and what happened
in that storyline a little bit.
Speaker 2: Poor Gnostics did not get nine lives, we'll say that.
So the Gnostics were actually an early second of Christianity. Well,
let's back up a little bit. There's lots of debates
of who Jesus was. There's people who say Jesus didn't
even live. For the sake of this conversation, and what
I really true believe. I do believe there was some
character like Jesus, just like there was somebody like Buddha, Right,
There's someone who was able to translate this energy, this,
these frequencies, all this stuff we've been talking about this podcast,
and those early sects of what later became Christianity. At
the time wasn't Christianity. Jesus was Jewish. He they the
teachings were not about what they are now they were.
They were very much about being outside the system. The
stuff we were talking about, frequencies, sound, being joyful, translating
the word of God, of the Goddess. You know, it
was very much in line with It wasn't just God,
it was it was it was the Goddess, it was
the creation, it was it was this all this information.
Now when it became Christianity, well before so Jesus transcends
and we uh, we now have we have an early
sect of his teachings which become the Gnostics, and then
you have the Apostles that go off and do his teachings,
which later becomes Christianity. But the Gnostics really were holding
this this true vision of what the teachings were about,
and a lot of We don't need to get into
Mary Magdalen, but the Gospel of Mary is most of
it is ripped out because because it always starts like this,
if you are so powerful women to tell me what
Jesus said, please tell me now. And then of course
all those pages are ripped out and we can never
find them for the for all of eternity.
Speaker 1: Of course, of course, of course, so.
Speaker 2: The Gnostics were following those old teachings. There was no separation,
there was no angry God. It was God embraces everybody,
forgiveness all of that. Right, those are the Nastics outside
the wall. Nothing's real, you know, live in joy and
harmony all the time, no matter how much they test you,
it is not real. That's Gnostics. Christianity went off and
did their thing, and they're like, they're crazy. We're creating
a whole order, We're creating structure and fear and God
will hurt you if you don't do stuff. And that's
where it went right boop opsit directions. Later in time,
then the Christians felt threatened by the Gnostics. And I
think this is the time of the knights templar if
I'm correct, yep, And they basically earned every single one
of them at the stake. But yeah, every single one
of them they could play. And the ones that that
still held the teachings, and then there's lots of stories
like the Knights. Templar still holds a lot of those secrets,
you know. And this is what Da vinci Code is about, right,
Like this this Rosicrucians line that's kind of hidden. The
Templar's hid. They like they put things all over the place,
you know, they didn't want people to find it. The
scrolls took how many years to find? Right in the
in the the deserts of Iraq?
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, dead squirrels, the dead sea squirrels.
Speaker 2: Squirrels. Yeah, but that teaching, you know even today, Like
I put a gnostic guy who had the only person
who would answer my call. I did a whole episode
I was writing for guy at the time, Ancient Civilization
episode on gnostics and something Graham Hancock was really passionate about.
And and so I could only find one gnostic person,
like someone who's actually practicing and published a book to
come on camera. The guy comes on camera and he
was lovely amazing. You know, he does all the translations
what they mean what they meant by the teachings. He's
about to publish his book. He's like thirty five, and
the show comes out. He's in the show, and I
get a you know, we send out an email to
the family, to the family, to each person saying, hey,
the show's the shows come out, this is when your
episode will be on. We really thank you for your
time and any time.
Speaker 1: Sure.
Speaker 2: I several months later, I get an email from his
mother apparently, and she said, Hey, his name is Graham.
Graham has been found dead in his bed and I'm
really sad about it, and and I was wondering if
you could help get his book published, because you know,
it was right on the brink of being published. And
then he She's like, it's really weird. We don't know
why he passed. He's super healthy. Just I just found
him in bed and he was dead, and.
Speaker 1: I was like, oh my god.
Speaker 2: I know. So I think that there's still like a
there's a fear that the Gnostics might come back and
like somehow impose their teachings, which have nothing to do
about anybody or any other religion. They're only about living
in harmony with all the things that we're talking about
and there and there. It's all about living in that
joyful state forgiveness, which is what Jesus was about. So
the Gnostics is a dirtier word than a naky, to
be honest with you. It gets into all sorts of
secrecy that's been going on for a very long time
that you can trace back to the Knights Templar and
all of these secret societies in organizations.
Speaker 1: So that would be if the Knights Templar, if my
history serves me correct, we're talking about what four hundred
five hundred a d are on there.
Speaker 2: That's what There's no more Gnostics after that. It's uh yeah,
it was horrific.
Speaker 1: So how did they? So then obviously someone kept the teachings.
Speaker 2: Someone kept the teaching. They're very secret, like there's I
found that there was a Gnostic church in la which
is I was like, hey can I and I want?
Nobody would even talk to me and I don't even
know who's able to go there. So it's very obviously
they have a structure. But it's very right.
Speaker 1: So this is and this is so this is after
the council and I see you, after the Christians have
you know, the Romans have put together. This is what
real Christianity is. Let's see, the villagers are getting restless.
We got to come up with something to control them. Hey,
let's put this thing and we'll call it the Roman
Catholic Church. And and that was that. That and then
of course the Gnostics were obviously a threat to that
new order that.
Speaker 2: We survived until oh god, I'm missing my uh. I
think a king ordered all of their So we're later
in history, a king ordered all of their all of
them to be burned. And I can't remember who it is,
but that's everything went underground. The scrolls disappeared everything. I mean,
people are still teaching it, but a lot of a
lot of their teachings ended up in some of these
other secret organizations that they make all these movies about later,
the Benhiko, the Rosicrucians and all that kind of stuff.
They all got to get like parted.
Speaker 1: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
and now back to the show. Yeah, it's it's fascinating,
like so much knowledge has been lost throughout history. I mean,
what they did with the Mayans, and they burned all
the Mayans knowledge and Alexander the Library of Alexandria, and
God knows what was in there and all this and
let's let's not even talk about what's in the Vatican.
Speaker 2: How much can be able to see?
Speaker 1: How much stuff is in the vaults of the Vatican.
It's that is I'm sure you would die to get it,
to just get in there for a few hours, just
to look around.
Speaker 2: Bring a sleeping bag and try to hide out like
in a movie, right right, look at a flashlight around like.
Speaker 1: An eighties like an eighties movie, and you're a teenager
all of a sudden, like, hey, this is.
Speaker 2: Like a new kind of gooties.
Speaker 1: It's like a new kind of gooness. Can you imagine
Goody's to Vannikan's vault? That would be amazing.
Speaker 2: And then what you find is slotht right like the
characters out there for I don't know how long he's
he's actually an on an hockey and he's.
Speaker 1: Actually been very smarter than all of them. That would
be amazing. I think we're writing the sequel right now.
Call Stephen up right now, see if you'll produce it again.
So tell me about your new movie, Coach twelve. We've
kind of talked a little bit about it. So can
you tell everybody what is what is about, what's in it?
And where can people see it? Yeah?
Speaker 2: So, CO twelve is a documentary I produced. It just
came out on Amazon, and Code twelve is about the
simulation theory, which we talked about a lot in this
conversation and that new code that I was explaining, like
there's the code that everybody's been you know, like, Okay,
this is the program, but who's running the program type
of thing? And that is this, you know, I call
the movie Code twelve, and you'll find out if you
watch the movie. But it also talks about that the
ancients left behind a way out. They gave us a
structure they and they gave us clues on how to
get out of the system. And a lot of that
is a mixture between tuning your body, you get into
spirituality aspects, but it's also about teaching how the universe
actually works so you understand what you're breaking out of
and what your potentiality is. And that's what we really
discover in Code twelve through ancient texts, computer programmers, scientists, geneticists.
It was astonishing to me when I got on this
journey that all these people had the same research that
I was finding, except they were in their own little wheelhouse.
They're just looking at DNA, or they're just looking at
the cosmos, or they're just astrology, or they're just looking
at this one temple, and they all aligned to the
same thing.
Speaker 1: That's that's amazing. That's the thing I think I I
love doing as well, is connecting all of the different
parts of this giant puzzle, because if you're just looking
in one corner, it's like the old Indian proverb, like
you know, the seven blind men holding onto a piece
of the elephant, and they go, no, the elephants, the trunk, No,
the elephants to tail. They the elephants, but they don't
see the full picture. And I think that's what you're
trying to do with the movie, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. I think the full picture is where it's
at now. I think we get so caught in the
narratives because it speaks to us, and then we feel
a part of us opening, which is amazing. That's what
that's what we're this work is about. But it's about
the big picture. Now. I get a lot of people
email me about this film and they they they say
to me, every one of them say, oh my god,
this made me think of X y Z. Now that's
not my thoughts, that's their thoughts. I've opened something up
in them to understand something about themselves, and that is
the whole point. Whether you believe my theory or not,
it doesn't matter. What matters is that you gain insight
on what you're supposed to be doing and how you're connected.
And that's all it matters.
Speaker 1: Beautiful, beautiful, No, I'm gonna ask a few questions, ask
all my guests. Okay, what is your definition of living
a fulfilled life?
Speaker 2: Being joyful, being connected to loved ones, having great relationships.
Everything else is just conditional.
Speaker 1: If you had a chance to go back in time
and speak to little Melissa, what advice would you give her?
Speaker 2: It's it's all true. Everything you feel is all true.
Just keep going with it, don't have any doubts.
Speaker 1: How do you define God or source.
Speaker 2: Internal universal creation energy?
Speaker 1: What is love?
Speaker 2: Everything?
Speaker 1: And what is the ultimate purpose of life? And where
can people find out more about you and the work
that you're doing in the world.
Speaker 2: You can go to our website. I run a production
company called Hawthorpe Studios ww dot. Hathor studios dot Com.
There you'll see all new films that we have coming up,
and we have a new film coming out called Source.
You can see the trailer there. You can also find
out more about Code twelve. We'll be doing a summit
pretty soon where you get to meet some of the
people in the film. So if you just sign up there,
we have an email newsletter and we'll give you all
the updates of our stuff.
Speaker 1: And do you have any parting messages for our audience.
Speaker 2: Probably the same thing that I would tell little Melissa,
whatever you're feeling deep down inside, it's all true. Don't
have any doubts.
Speaker 1: Just go for it, feel it, Melissa, Melissa, thank you
so much for coming on the show. I could talk
to you for another hour or two. This is so
much It was so much fun talking to you, like
you go down these rabbit holes and you could just
just on a Naki is an hour alone, you know,
or the Gnostics are an hour alone, or the Pyramids.
Speaker 2: Get alive because of the Gnostics, right for the true simulations.
Speaker 1: I appreciate you, my dear. Thanks again.
Speaker 2: All right, take care, thank you.
Speaker 1: Thank you for spending this sacred time with us today.
If you feel called to explore this conversation further. You'll
find the show notes for this episode at Next level
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