1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:01,399 Speaker 1: Good morning, Richard, how are you doing? 2 00:00:02,480 --> 00:00:04,320 Speaker 2: Good morning, good great things so about yourself. 3 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:07,280 Speaker 3: Absolutely fantastic and very excited to share a conversation with 4 00:00:07,360 --> 00:00:09,359 you because I mean, you are speaking the truth when 5 00:00:09,400 --> 00:00:11,240 it comes to this book. And I have to ask you, 6 00:00:11,279 --> 00:00:13,839 are you selling this book at airports, because I'll bet 7 00:00:13,919 --> 00:00:16,679 you it would be a total sellout every single time. 8 00:00:16,800 --> 00:00:19,039 This is what people read on airplanes. 9 00:00:21,719 --> 00:00:23,320 Speaker 2: I'd have to talk to my publisher about that. 10 00:00:23,359 --> 00:00:26,879 Speaker 3: Which airports Charlotte Douglas, which is what the fourth biggest 11 00:00:26,920 --> 00:00:27,600 right now in the nation. 12 00:00:31,359 --> 00:00:32,320 Speaker 2: That would be a great place. 13 00:00:33,240 --> 00:00:35,640 Speaker 3: Cat did you get here? What was the breaking point? 14 00:00:35,679 --> 00:00:37,399 Because I mean, I mean for someone to say, Okay, 15 00:00:37,439 --> 00:00:39,119 I'm because I am sick of my phone. But the 16 00:00:39,119 --> 00:00:41,320 problem is, though, is I use it for business and 17 00:00:41,600 --> 00:00:43,880 I use it for you know, because I'm so inquisitive 18 00:00:43,880 --> 00:00:45,000 that I've got to know everything. 19 00:00:47,119 --> 00:00:49,679 Speaker 4: Yeah, what's started me on this journey was that I 20 00:00:49,799 --> 00:00:53,039 was really, I'm sorry, We're terrible eco right now. 21 00:00:53,560 --> 00:00:54,280 Speaker 2: I'm sorry. 22 00:00:54,439 --> 00:00:56,280 Speaker 3: So this is definitely one reason why we need to 23 00:00:56,280 --> 00:00:58,439 give up on these digital phones is because they're not 24 00:00:58,439 --> 00:01:00,920 trustworthy in the way that it's it's causing a repeat 25 00:01:00,920 --> 00:01:01,640 on your end. 26 00:01:02,119 --> 00:01:05,799 Speaker 4: That's right, Yeah, this journey all started with me in 27 00:01:05,840 --> 00:01:09,879 twenty nineteen. I was feeling so much strained from my phone. 28 00:01:10,079 --> 00:01:12,120 The average American adult spends more than five hours a 29 00:01:12,159 --> 00:01:15,359 day on their smartphones. I certainly was no exception, and 30 00:01:15,799 --> 00:01:17,599 I just need to do something about it. So I 31 00:01:17,640 --> 00:01:20,480 turned my smartphone off for an entire year and to 32 00:01:20,560 --> 00:01:22,079 completely transform my life. 33 00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:24,079 Speaker 3: That's exactly how you start the book off Tune, which 34 00:01:24,079 --> 00:01:25,480 I thought was very interesting. 35 00:01:25,719 --> 00:01:25,840 Speaker 2: That. 36 00:01:25,879 --> 00:01:28,239 Speaker 3: I mean, the very first chapter is a year without 37 00:01:28,239 --> 00:01:30,840 the smartphone, and then when you get into the other chapters, 38 00:01:30,879 --> 00:01:32,599 all of a sudden, it's like, Okay, this is what 39 00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:34,680 I did, but this is how I did it. 40 00:01:34,799 --> 00:01:36,599 Speaker 1: So I love the way that you do that. 41 00:01:36,640 --> 00:01:39,000 Speaker 3: You explain who you are, why you are, and then 42 00:01:39,040 --> 00:01:40,640 go into the motions of correcting it. 43 00:01:42,280 --> 00:01:43,120 Speaker 2: That's correct. Yeah. 44 00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:45,359 Speaker 4: After I went through my process, I realized that there's 45 00:01:45,439 --> 00:01:47,400 so many self help articles and books out. 46 00:01:47,239 --> 00:01:49,239 Speaker 2: There that espouse hacks. 47 00:01:49,680 --> 00:01:52,840 Speaker 4: And although hacks are noble, like deleting social media, taking 48 00:01:52,879 --> 00:01:55,760 a digital stabbas, turning your phone to great scale, those 49 00:01:55,799 --> 00:01:58,359 are very nice, but for a true behavioral addiction, it 50 00:01:58,400 --> 00:01:59,319 doesn't go far enough. 51 00:01:59,359 --> 00:02:02,400 Speaker 2: So I ended up viewing dozens of people who. 52 00:02:02,599 --> 00:02:06,400 Speaker 4: Went through a smartphone reset by turning it off, and 53 00:02:06,599 --> 00:02:09,199 four different breakup styles emerged, which I outlined in the 54 00:02:09,199 --> 00:02:11,240 book that can help people on that path. 55 00:02:11,520 --> 00:02:13,199 Speaker 3: One of the things that I've done to helped be 56 00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:15,479 on that very journey that you're on, and it really is, 57 00:02:15,759 --> 00:02:18,319 it's a tough journey, is the fact that I only 58 00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:20,719 have certain times that I will read my emails. And 59 00:02:20,800 --> 00:02:23,120 number two, I turned off the volume on the ringer 60 00:02:23,240 --> 00:02:25,240 and because I want to be out there and I 61 00:02:25,240 --> 00:02:26,319 don't want to be interrupted. 62 00:02:28,599 --> 00:02:31,199 Speaker 4: Yeah, so that's that's fantastic if you're able to reduce 63 00:02:31,360 --> 00:02:33,680 screen time that way. But what I've found is that 64 00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:38,319 most people, even when they do those kinds of things, 65 00:02:38,639 --> 00:02:40,560 if they have it in their pocket or they have 66 00:02:40,639 --> 00:02:44,639 it on their desk, it's just far too alluring. It's irresistible, 67 00:02:45,159 --> 00:02:48,879 that draw because each time you check your phone, dopamine 68 00:02:48,919 --> 00:02:51,360 is released. Dopamine is the most one of the most 69 00:02:51,360 --> 00:02:53,759 powerful molecules in the brain, and each time you tap 70 00:02:53,840 --> 00:02:58,919 your phone, it releases dopamine, which is an incredibly pleasurable experience. 71 00:02:59,120 --> 00:03:02,639 The average American tops their phone more than one hundred 72 00:03:02,639 --> 00:03:03,240 and fifty. 73 00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:06,800 Speaker 2: Times checks their phone. Yep. Yeah, And that's what about irresistible. 74 00:03:06,840 --> 00:03:07,080 Speaker 1: It is. 75 00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:10,120 Speaker 3: It's what's the weather, like, what's my bank account look 76 00:03:10,199 --> 00:03:10,639 like right now? 77 00:03:10,639 --> 00:03:10,800 Speaker 2: Oh? 78 00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:12,759 Speaker 1: That's right, I have to pay this bill. Grab the phone. 79 00:03:12,800 --> 00:03:15,280 Speaker 3: Grab the phone every time you turn around, and like 80 00:03:15,319 --> 00:03:17,639 I said, I have to use it as my business phone. 81 00:03:19,159 --> 00:03:19,800 Speaker 2: That's correct. 82 00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:22,159 Speaker 4: And Y has someone if this is comforting for listeners. 83 00:03:22,599 --> 00:03:24,560 Someone I interview in profile in a book. In the 84 00:03:24,599 --> 00:03:29,520 book is one call antithesiologist at John Hopkins Hospital and 85 00:03:29,560 --> 00:03:31,599 one of the top top research hospitals in the country. 86 00:03:32,039 --> 00:03:36,280 And what he does, which shows how powerful it is, 87 00:03:36,280 --> 00:03:38,400 is he has to have a work smartphone when he's 88 00:03:38,400 --> 00:03:40,719 in the hospital. So he has a work smartphone, it's 89 00:03:40,759 --> 00:03:42,840 issued by the hospital. But then when he's done with it, 90 00:03:43,199 --> 00:03:45,840 he leaves it plugged into the office and he has 91 00:03:45,840 --> 00:03:48,199 not a two way pager but a one way pager. 92 00:03:48,199 --> 00:03:50,520 And he doesn't have a smartphone. He said, why would 93 00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:52,960 I want to bring all that craziness as the smartphone 94 00:03:52,960 --> 00:03:55,120 brings and bring it into my actual life. So if 95 00:03:55,120 --> 00:03:57,599 you think that it's too difficult to do in terms 96 00:03:57,599 --> 00:04:00,759 of turning off your smartphone, yes it is challenging. But 97 00:04:00,840 --> 00:04:03,360 if an on call heantaseusiologist, and when the top research 98 00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:04,319 hospolds can do it. 99 00:04:04,520 --> 00:04:05,080 Speaker 2: You tend too. 100 00:04:05,879 --> 00:04:10,199 Speaker 5: There is more with Richard Simon coming up next. The 101 00:04:10,240 --> 00:04:13,280 name of the book is Unplugged. We're back with author 102 00:04:13,360 --> 00:04:17,079 Richard Simon. Do you suggest that we quit with somebody else? 103 00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:19,000 And I mean, there are a lot of single people 104 00:04:19,040 --> 00:04:20,759 around maybe they should find a friend in the way 105 00:04:20,759 --> 00:04:23,120 of saying, let's do this together as friends and let's 106 00:04:23,160 --> 00:04:24,439 see how we change our lives. 107 00:04:25,839 --> 00:04:26,079 Speaker 2: Yeah. 108 00:04:26,079 --> 00:04:27,879 Speaker 4: So the four breakup styles that I mentioned in the 109 00:04:27,879 --> 00:04:30,319 book in terms of ways you can turn off your phone, 110 00:04:30,439 --> 00:04:31,759 and that I think is one of the most. 111 00:04:31,720 --> 00:04:34,399 Speaker 2: Powerful ones is that if you decide. 112 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:36,079 Speaker 4: You want to turn your smartphone off, do it with 113 00:04:36,160 --> 00:04:40,000 someone else. In the book, I profile two couples who 114 00:04:40,079 --> 00:04:43,319 did it together. And there's something so amazing about doing 115 00:04:43,399 --> 00:04:46,040 something with someone else who you care about dearly because 116 00:04:46,040 --> 00:04:49,399 there's an accountability factor, you have that built in support group. 117 00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:51,680 I think that's something that's really really strong. 118 00:04:51,839 --> 00:04:52,839 Speaker 1: So let me ask you a question. 119 00:04:53,000 --> 00:04:56,120 Speaker 3: You being a major league baseball player, I mean, are 120 00:04:56,160 --> 00:04:57,759 there players out there on the field that are carrying 121 00:04:57,759 --> 00:04:59,639 their smartphones with them while they're playing the game. 122 00:05:01,560 --> 00:05:05,959 Speaker 4: So I interview in profile a major league baseball player 123 00:05:06,120 --> 00:05:10,399 in the book and he told me his teammates thinks 124 00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:12,439 or they thought, that he was one hundred percent crazy. 125 00:05:12,680 --> 00:05:15,199 I profiled Dick Costianos. He's a right fielder for the 126 00:05:15,199 --> 00:05:16,160 Philadelphia Faillies. 127 00:05:16,360 --> 00:05:20,240 Speaker 2: Yes, and Nick had one of the most transformative years 128 00:05:20,240 --> 00:05:21,560 of his career when he. 129 00:05:21,560 --> 00:05:24,360 Speaker 4: Turned his smartphone off in twenty twenty one, and after 130 00:05:24,399 --> 00:05:27,560 he went through it, it really resets the reward pathways 131 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:30,600 in his brain. It recalibrated his system. So when he 132 00:05:30,639 --> 00:05:33,800 eventually brought the smartphone back into his life, he felt 133 00:05:33,800 --> 00:05:36,439 in control of it rather than it being control of him. 134 00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:38,920 Speaker 3: With the breakup styles, one of the things that you 135 00:05:39,000 --> 00:05:41,759 really jump into is simplifying your phone. Does that mean 136 00:05:41,879 --> 00:05:45,079 don't go download another app and get rid of half 137 00:05:45,160 --> 00:05:47,399 the ones that you got now you don't need them. 138 00:05:48,680 --> 00:05:52,759 Speaker 4: No, it goes even further simplifying your phone. That approach 139 00:05:52,959 --> 00:05:56,920 is turning off your smartphone and switching to a basic phone. 140 00:05:57,079 --> 00:05:59,680 Speaker 2: Well, people know it's like flip phones. So you go 141 00:05:59,800 --> 00:06:01,079 to actual. 142 00:06:00,560 --> 00:06:03,959 Speaker 4: Physical at and T or a Verizon or T mobile store. 143 00:06:04,399 --> 00:06:06,800 You get a basic phone, the most basic of basic, 144 00:06:06,879 --> 00:06:10,000 just calling and texting, and you switch your SIM card over. 145 00:06:10,160 --> 00:06:12,240 You still have the same phone number and you will 146 00:06:12,279 --> 00:06:15,040 see you will get hours back every single day that 147 00:06:15,160 --> 00:06:15,959 you didn't have before. 148 00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:18,360 Speaker 3: Come on, but what's the withdrawal like, you had to 149 00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:20,439 have gone through withdrawals. 150 00:06:20,759 --> 00:06:23,560 Speaker 4: Yes, almost everyone I experienced I interviewed for the book, 151 00:06:23,560 --> 00:06:26,000 including myself, went through withdrawal. That shows how much of 152 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:28,560 a behavioral addiction it is for some people to two 153 00:06:28,680 --> 00:06:30,920 or three days of headaches, for some people can last 154 00:06:30,959 --> 00:06:31,360 as long. 155 00:06:31,279 --> 00:06:33,560 Speaker 2: As two to three weeks in terms of anxiety. 156 00:06:33,959 --> 00:06:37,319 Speaker 4: But once you get passed that withdrawal phase, that's when 157 00:06:37,319 --> 00:06:40,120 the difference starts because you all of a sudden realize 158 00:06:40,240 --> 00:06:42,800 I have four to five hours extra free time. You 159 00:06:42,839 --> 00:06:44,800 go through your preparation stage, you figure out how you're 160 00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:47,600 going to fill that time, and that's where the lasting 161 00:06:47,680 --> 00:06:48,360 change starts. 162 00:06:48,439 --> 00:06:50,240 Speaker 1: My wife brought up a very interesting point. 163 00:06:50,240 --> 00:06:53,079 Speaker 3: There are a lot of psychologists and psychotherapists that that 164 00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:56,160 are making some money right now because kids are addicted 165 00:06:56,199 --> 00:06:59,560 to their smartphones. And we've seen commercials that say, is 166 00:06:59,600 --> 00:07:02,879 your child addicted, call this number right now, And it's like, what, 167 00:07:03,279 --> 00:07:05,079 so are they reaching out to you saying calm down, 168 00:07:05,120 --> 00:07:07,720 calm down, dude, Come on, this is my making money 169 00:07:07,759 --> 00:07:08,160 right now. 170 00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:13,879 Speaker 4: You know, for kids, this is a big, big issue, 171 00:07:14,240 --> 00:07:17,240 and I think that there is serious momentum right now, 172 00:07:17,360 --> 00:07:21,519 especially within school districts of keeping phones out, which is wonderful, 173 00:07:21,920 --> 00:07:23,920 But that leads us to the next step, which is 174 00:07:24,319 --> 00:07:27,519 what kind of behavior are we modeling as adults for 175 00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:30,720 our kids. And that's where my book Unplug comes in, because. 176 00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:32,480 Speaker 2: That's great you're in school and you're not using. 177 00:07:32,319 --> 00:07:34,759 Speaker 4: A smartphone, But when you get back home or you 178 00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:36,680 get into the car and your parent is looking down 179 00:07:36,680 --> 00:07:38,759 on the screen at dinner or looking at us down 180 00:07:38,759 --> 00:07:41,759 to the screen at carpool, what kind of example does 181 00:07:41,800 --> 00:07:44,439 that set? So that's where I think this book comes in, 182 00:07:44,639 --> 00:07:46,800 is that we need to model the right behavior for 183 00:07:46,879 --> 00:07:49,000 our kids if we want to expect our kids to 184 00:07:49,040 --> 00:07:50,639 be modeling the right behavior with their phone. 185 00:07:50,720 --> 00:07:52,839 Speaker 3: Dude, I've been that guy that's been at a traffic 186 00:07:52,920 --> 00:07:55,040 light that sat through a green light and the people 187 00:07:55,079 --> 00:07:57,040 behind me were really pissed off. 188 00:07:58,800 --> 00:08:01,160 Speaker 2: Oh yes, absolutely. Yeah. 189 00:08:01,199 --> 00:08:04,639 Speaker 4: For driving, it's a scary thing. You're on the highway, 190 00:08:04,639 --> 00:08:06,279 you look to your left, looks you're right, both people 191 00:08:06,319 --> 00:08:07,000 are on their phone. 192 00:08:07,079 --> 00:08:07,319 Speaker 2: Yep. 193 00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:10,839 Speaker 4: Driving already was not the safest thing before smartphones came 194 00:08:10,879 --> 00:08:13,759 into the picture, and now there are thousands of deaths 195 00:08:13,879 --> 00:08:16,079 every year in this country due to distracted driving, so 196 00:08:16,079 --> 00:08:16,879 it's a big problem. 197 00:08:16,920 --> 00:08:19,079 Speaker 3: Wow, where can people go to find out more about 198 00:08:19,079 --> 00:08:21,160 you and jump on your team? 199 00:08:21,959 --> 00:08:22,240 Speaker 2: Sure? 200 00:08:22,360 --> 00:08:24,439 Speaker 4: My book is called Unplug How to Break Up with 201 00:08:24,560 --> 00:08:26,160 your Phone and Reclaim your Life. 202 00:08:26,199 --> 00:08:26,920 Speaker 2: It's available at. 203 00:08:26,920 --> 00:08:31,319 Speaker 4: All major booksellers Amazon, Target, Walmart, Barnes, and Noble, or 204 00:08:31,439 --> 00:08:33,360 you can go to your independent bookstore to get a copy. 205 00:08:33,519 --> 00:08:35,200 Speaker 3: Richard, you got to come back to this show anytime 206 00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:37,080 in the future because I want to hear the rest 207 00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:38,879 of your story in the way of how you continue 208 00:08:38,919 --> 00:08:40,080 to be as strong as you are. 209 00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:43,480 Speaker 2: Would be absolutely happy too. It's been great to be on. 210 00:08:43,679 --> 00:08:45,799 Speaker 1: Will you be brilliant today? Okay, take care. 211 00:08:45,879 --> 00:08:46,799 Speaker 2: Thank you again for having me.