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<v Speaker 1>I've got an idea for a movie. Okay, We've got

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<v Speaker 1>something akin to Fast and Furious. We've got a future

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<v Speaker 1>era where there's rabid life sucking entities out on the run.

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<v Speaker 1>There's something akin to Buffy the Slayer. We bring in

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<v Speaker 1>a B grade Vin Diesel Ben Diesel. Perhaps we could

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<v Speaker 1>go on.

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<v Speaker 2>You play, Oh, I know where this is going.

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<v Speaker 1>The villains, love interests, no lines for you, just hisses.

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<v Speaker 1>This is my idea. What this is, this is class,

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<v Speaker 1>this is okay, so you're in awesome. Okay, the Bleeding

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<v Speaker 1>We had fun watching that last night. I was like,

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<v Speaker 1>Amy was like, what are you putting on?

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<v Speaker 2>Why would you do that to me? You want to

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<v Speaker 2>you want to open up this interview by talking about

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<v Speaker 2>the one B movie that I was in years ago.

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<v Speaker 2>Of course I don't even think I was the love

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<v Speaker 2>the love interest of them.

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<v Speaker 1>I was just like, you were conquy by number one.

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<v Speaker 2>It was that my credit, that's my credit, that's my

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<v Speaker 2>credit to you.

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<v Speaker 1>But you were on his left flank and then there

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<v Speaker 1>was another chick on the right flank, and you guys

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<v Speaker 1>were hissing it up.

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<v Speaker 2>It was the worst listen. I love vampire movies. Vampire

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<v Speaker 2>movies are my second favorite movie genre ever. But this

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<v Speaker 2>one just went against everything. If you, if you actually

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<v Speaker 2>watched the whole movie, which I think you could, you

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<v Speaker 2>guys did I got killed with a silver bullet. I

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<v Speaker 2>know that's a werewolf, that's not a vampire.

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<v Speaker 1>Let's not be legalistic. Okay, there's flexibility is but I wrote, so, I.

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<v Speaker 2>Wrote a couple of your line stay through the heart.

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<v Speaker 2>You said, why so sad your death brings me life?

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<v Speaker 1>Well, I think you need to answer for this. A

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<v Speaker 1>lot of people are asking. You said. At one point

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<v Speaker 1>in the film. Towards the end of the film, you said.

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<v Speaker 2>You're promoting something that I was hoping would never see

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<v Speaker 2>in the light of day.

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<v Speaker 1>What do those lines actually mean?

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know. I tried to change them because I

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<v Speaker 2>thought they were so bad. And that's when I learned

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<v Speaker 2>that you can't as an actor do that on set

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<v Speaker 2>without a writer going actually you need to Yeah. I tried.

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<v Speaker 2>I tried my best. I had no control.

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<v Speaker 1>I love B movies.

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<v Speaker 2>I warned you that that was a C minus movie.

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<v Speaker 1>Fair fair grades. But I did say I would bring

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<v Speaker 1>up and you did a whole interview with Stephen Baldwin

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<v Speaker 1>about your movie, so I don't feel bad asking you

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<v Speaker 1>about He has.

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<v Speaker 2>A podcast about the one bad movie You've been in.

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<v Speaker 2>That's the only bad movie I've ever That's the only

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<v Speaker 2>movie I've ever been It was a bad one.

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<v Speaker 1>You can ask my wife. I always wanted to be

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<v Speaker 1>in a B movie, you know. I thought we were

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<v Speaker 1>about to be in one, and the funding fell through.

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<v Speaker 1>So if you want to hire me for a B movie,

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<v Speaker 1>it's not too late. I'm out here exactly. Okay. You

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<v Speaker 1>grew up in what's known as poverty, and you you,

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<v Speaker 1>for a time, didn't have what they call running water.

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<v Speaker 1>What was that like?

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<v Speaker 2>I was born in Mexico, in a little tiny town

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<v Speaker 2>outside of the city of Monterrey. It was called Monte Moreros,

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<v Speaker 2>and it's about six hours south of Texas. I'd lived

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<v Speaker 2>there until I was about five years old, and then

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<v Speaker 2>we moved to America. But my parents were My father

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<v Speaker 2>was a missionary for the church that we attended at

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<v Speaker 2>the time, and so myself and my siblings were born there.

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<v Speaker 2>And you know, I don't have too many memories outside

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<v Speaker 2>of joy. I think, as cliche as it sounds, I

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<v Speaker 2>think the simpler your life is, the the happier it

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<v Speaker 2>can be. And you know, I was a tomboy and

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<v Speaker 2>I remember putting frogs in my pocket and just having

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<v Speaker 2>dirt under my nails all the time. But you know,

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<v Speaker 2>this was a place that didn't have medical help, and

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<v Speaker 2>so my dad built this clinic, like literally built it

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<v Speaker 2>and then worked in it, and then you know, we

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<v Speaker 2>were born there. So interesting. So my family's from Argentina,

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<v Speaker 2>they're from South America. I was born in Mexico. So

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<v Speaker 2>you know, I think it confuses people like to learn

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<v Speaker 2>that that I'm Latina or whatever.

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<v Speaker 1>Latina latinax. Yeah, no, not that in regards to Argentina.

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<v Speaker 1>You your family moved from Argentina to Mexico.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, yeah, my dad is a long generations of missionary workers.

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<v Speaker 2>So my grandfather was also a missionary doctor. He actually

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<v Speaker 2>delivered me, which I think would have been in hindsight

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<v Speaker 2>now that I have a son, I would be so

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<v Speaker 2>weird to have your father in law be your obgn.

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<v Speaker 2>But but there's a really cool photo of him holding

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<v Speaker 2>me up. And you know how they used to spank

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<v Speaker 2>babies and stuff when and uh, that's my grandpa. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>he's passed away since.

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<v Speaker 1>But the name von Drachenberg, right.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, is that it's of German descent, so on my

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<v Speaker 2>dad's side he has German ancestry. So there's actually a

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<v Speaker 2>little castle outside of Cologne about twenty minutes ouside of

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<v Speaker 2>Clone called Schloss von Drachenberg, and it's it means dragon

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<v Speaker 2>of the mountain.

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<v Speaker 1>So yeah, so is it nobility like do you? Yeah?

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<v Speaker 2>So usually I think it's v O N versus v

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<v Speaker 2>A N. I think there's like a difference in Dutch

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<v Speaker 2>blood or something like that. I think we're the blue blood.

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<v Speaker 2>I have no idea.

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<v Speaker 1>We have a Scottish castle my clan, you do. It's

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<v Speaker 1>all ruined. It's in ruins and the queen owns it,

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<v Speaker 1>which ours is ours is.

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<v Speaker 2>A museum now and it's cool because I have fans

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<v Speaker 2>that send me photos and videos and so it's really beautiful.

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<v Speaker 2>It was one of the few castles that weren't damaged

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<v Speaker 2>through any of the wars, so that's nice.

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<v Speaker 1>It makes me think of the Baroness from g I Joe,

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<v Speaker 1>you could play the Baroness, do you know what I'm

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<v Speaker 1>talking about?

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<v Speaker 2>No, when you say baroness, I always think of like

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<v Speaker 2>Countess Bathroo or somebody else.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, not too so Argentina poverty to Mexico, I don't

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<v Speaker 1>even think.

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<v Speaker 2>About being poor. Is that you don't if as a parent,

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<v Speaker 2>if you do it right, you don't even know you are,

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<v Speaker 2>you know. So for us, it was a very joyful time.

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<v Speaker 2>It was all about family and I had no idea

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<v Speaker 2>that we that there was anything different.

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<v Speaker 1>Did that protect you from the later temptations of what

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<v Speaker 1>like celebrity in Hollywood offers? Do you think there was some?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah? I think my parents did a pretty good job

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<v Speaker 2>at not protecting so much, but just teaching us importance

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<v Speaker 2>of certain things. I remember my dad bought us a

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<v Speaker 2>family van at one point. This was it was like

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<v Speaker 2>an astro van and I was in elementary school at

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<v Speaker 2>the time and it had one of those doors that

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<v Speaker 2>slid open, and I was my mind was blown at

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<v Speaker 2>the time because I'd never seen anything. I was like,

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<v Speaker 2>this is the coolest thing ever. And I remember my

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<v Speaker 2>dad having a conversation with me in the first grade saying, hey, like,

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<v Speaker 2>when you go to school, like don't show off. And

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<v Speaker 2>I was confused, It's like, what do you mean I

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<v Speaker 2>can't like tell my friends that we got this cool

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<v Speaker 2>new van. And you know now that as a mom

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<v Speaker 2>I look at my kid, and I'm kind of dealing

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<v Speaker 2>with some of the same things where it's like, how

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<v Speaker 2>do I give the gift of you know that, the

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<v Speaker 2>simplicity and value to my son, and I think we're

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<v Speaker 2>doing it.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, Yeah, no, I get it. I mean when I

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<v Speaker 1>was coming up in Tennessee, we lived kind of outside

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<v Speaker 1>of town. We also didn't have much. My dad bought

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<v Speaker 1>a trailer and we had to live down by the

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<v Speaker 1>river in a van down by the river. That's not true,

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<v Speaker 1>that's not true.

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<v Speaker 2>Are you really from Tennessee though.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I'm from Tennessee. You said you're the master of

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<v Speaker 1>your own reality many years ago too.

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<v Speaker 2>You never said that, Joe Rogan. So you know what,

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<v Speaker 2>Like I saw your question, I stole your book and

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<v Speaker 2>I looked at your notes and these are all terrible.

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<v Speaker 2>And if you continue, this.

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<v Speaker 1>Is important though, because your worldview has changed. Right. So, yeah, you,

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<v Speaker 1>Doug Synchronicity, you had a very I think you said

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<v Speaker 1>in one of the other interviews too, like later on

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<v Speaker 1>you said, I think a lot of people just end

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<v Speaker 1>up kind of worshiping themselves. I think that's a crucial

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<v Speaker 1>realization that marks everybody's transformation, you know, like they you

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<v Speaker 1>realize that even if you believed in a higher power

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<v Speaker 1>quote unquote, or even if you thought, oh, i'm you know,

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<v Speaker 1>serving a higher ideal, and you might have been a

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<v Speaker 1>time sincere but I think at the end of the

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<v Speaker 1>day we end up realizing that eventually, until we have

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<v Speaker 1>a specific encounter that we'll get to in a moment,

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<v Speaker 1>we're kind of worshiping ourselves. Is that accurate?

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<v Speaker 2>I think so. And I mean, whatever these old quotes

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<v Speaker 2>you pulled up to embarrass me, I think I've always

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<v Speaker 2>had a seeking nature and most most people that I

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<v Speaker 2>meet do too, and we're always like trying to find

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<v Speaker 2>answers and trying to, you know, know, figure out what

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<v Speaker 2>all this means. And oftentimes you get stuck, like with

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<v Speaker 2>whether it's a self help book or whatever it is,

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<v Speaker 2>like meditation what you know, it's I've talked about it before.

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<v Speaker 2>Sometimes it feels like a band aid on a sinking

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<v Speaker 2>ship type thing. And I look back at those days

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<v Speaker 2>where I was in some of the New agey stuff

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<v Speaker 2>is very very temporary. It's like these also grateful for

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<v Speaker 2>those like stepping stones that brought me to where I

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<v Speaker 2>am now. You know, It's like I'm glad I was

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<v Speaker 2>at least thinking of these things, you know, even though

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<v Speaker 2>I definitely didn't have it right back then.

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<v Speaker 1>What's interesting about a lot of what you said, even

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<v Speaker 1>in your previous too Christianity era, you talked about things like, oh,

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<v Speaker 1>I quit watching TV at all, Like back in twenty ten,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, you mentioned that you would sometimes watch films.

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<v Speaker 2>That sounds like something a snob would say.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, no, but that's actually it's actually good though, because

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<v Speaker 1>if you watch TV now, it's like nothing but just

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<v Speaker 1>boomer like mind control program.

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<v Speaker 2>You're talking about actual television.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Like television is like just it's a meta level

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<v Speaker 1>of dystopian reality. If you look at it, if you

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<v Speaker 1>haven't watched it in a long time, it's like you

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<v Speaker 1>go to it, you're like, whoa, this is crazy. But

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<v Speaker 1>I'm just saying it's interesting that even before, there seems

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<v Speaker 1>to have been a kind of sensing that you know,

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<v Speaker 1>something is off with this, something is like media is

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<v Speaker 1>doing something weird. And I think a lot of people

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<v Speaker 1>who do media notice that quicker than people perhaps not

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<v Speaker 1>in media, because you see it from the back end.

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<v Speaker 1>You see what's going on in the background, not that

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<v Speaker 1>you necessarily saw like a bunch of corruption, per se.

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<v Speaker 1>But I did want to mention as we move from

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<v Speaker 1>old times up to new times, like when you had

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<v Speaker 1>a TV show and then the TV show gets really popular,

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<v Speaker 1>you experience that reality, it becomes kind of surreal, I'm

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<v Speaker 1>guessing probably, and then you step into totally different worlds.

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<v Speaker 1>So I want to know, like, what was it like

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<v Speaker 1>being from a background of I think you said at

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<v Speaker 1>one point that you you hopped on a greyhound and

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<v Speaker 1>you just kind of went and smoked cigarettes and did

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<v Speaker 1>your own thing.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you really did some old digging.

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<v Speaker 1>I got to study the ops, right, You kind of

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<v Speaker 1>did it yourself, which is admirable. And then you end

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<v Speaker 1>up in a situation of celebrity, which is very, very rare.

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<v Speaker 1>That's why I'm asking about this, So, well, what's the

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<v Speaker 1>transition from poverty to celebrity like for you? And then

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<v Speaker 1>what's the emptiness of that type of celebrity lifestyle of

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<v Speaker 1>like you know, twenty tens la or whatever.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know. I never really thought about it that way,

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<v Speaker 2>to be honest, Like, I was just a tattooer at

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<v Speaker 2>the time, and I got on a tattoo TV show

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<v Speaker 2>and it blew up and I still I don't know.

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<v Speaker 2>I just always just kept my regular real friends and

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<v Speaker 2>just didn't really pay attention to the good and the bad.

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<v Speaker 2>As far as like input, I think again this is

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<v Speaker 2>due to probably my parents bring me up a certain way,

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<v Speaker 2>and I think when you keep your circles small, it

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<v Speaker 2>makes that a lot easier. But yeah, is there an

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<v Speaker 2>adjustment to people recognizing you or you know whatever those

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<v Speaker 2>kind of things. Sure, but I don't know. But so

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<v Speaker 2>I don't really think about that kind of stuff, to

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<v Speaker 2>be honest.

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<v Speaker 1>But I mean, back then, did you, like was it

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<v Speaker 1>Surely there had to be temptations of like, oh, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>like people recognize me on the street. Now, this is

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<v Speaker 1>not how it used to be. And was there a

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<v Speaker 1>temptation to think, Okay, I've arrived. And then was there

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<v Speaker 1>a lack of fulfillment in an arrival that caused you

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<v Speaker 1>to continue to sort of search because there had to

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<v Speaker 1>be something that prompted the questioning of, well, there's more

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<v Speaker 1>to life than this, right, There's got to be God.

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<v Speaker 1>There's got to be meaning or purpose, like what directed

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<v Speaker 1>you on the path of me?

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<v Speaker 2>I was brought up Christian, so you know, to me,

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<v Speaker 2>it's it's just something that was, you know, it was

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<v Speaker 2>just understood in a certain way. I mean, I think

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<v Speaker 2>when you're a kid, it's you're still trying to figure

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<v Speaker 2>it out. And by the time that I became a teenager,

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<v Speaker 2>I left home at a really early age. I ran

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<v Speaker 2>away from home and which is a really dangerous thing

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<v Speaker 2>to do. And I just didn't think about faith at

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<v Speaker 2>that time. And you know, you can see, like if

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<v Speaker 2>I were to lay out my life, there's just the

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<v Speaker 2>highest amount of destruction that I had. And I do

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<v Speaker 2>believe that I had something watching over me at the time.

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<v Speaker 2>I just never like when I straight away, I just

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<v Speaker 2>didn't think about it and I ended up prioritizing the

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<v Speaker 2>things that you were talking about self worship. I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>I would I built a huge career out of you know, vanity,

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<v Speaker 2>I guess you would say most of it, and I

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<v Speaker 2>just had my priorities just really flipped upside down. And

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<v Speaker 2>it really wasn't until I met my husband where I

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<v Speaker 2>where those things started changing. Raphael. You know, I haven't

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<v Speaker 2>dated that many people in my lifetime, but like prior

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<v Speaker 2>to my husband, most people I dated were terrible for me,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, and you know, the whole water seeks as

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<v Speaker 2>till level. I'm sure you know plays a part in that.

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<v Speaker 1>What about Darius Rucker, How was that when you dated Hoodie?

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<v Speaker 1>Because nobody's ast hey, because I mean people, people have

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<v Speaker 1>theorized for many years that I want to hold your hands.

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<v Speaker 1>The dolphins make me cry.

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<v Speaker 2>You know what, I don't even know what you're talking about.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm just not going to I'm sorry. So you had

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<v Speaker 1>a series of bad experiences in that world.

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<v Speaker 2>No, I mean this, and everybody has to go through

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<v Speaker 2>that until they find the right partner. But when I

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<v Speaker 2>met Raphile, I just remember, there was just goodness, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>there was It was like the first time I felt

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<v Speaker 2>like I was dating somebody that loved me without agenda.

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<v Speaker 2>And you know what, I really had no idea that

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<v Speaker 2>he was going to change my life in the way

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<v Speaker 2>that he did. And you know, at that time when

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<v Speaker 2>I met him, I was in full force. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>I had a huge company. I was just doing tons

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<v Speaker 2>of stuff, like my work was my priority. And and

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<v Speaker 2>I remember he was like, I want to have six kids,

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<v Speaker 2>and I'm like, oh, I'm never having kids, Like my

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<v Speaker 2>art is Mike baby or whatever, you know. And then

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<v Speaker 2>the compromise was I'll give you one, you know, and

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<v Speaker 2>I think that was the first step into.

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<v Speaker 1>Really changing most so motherhood and being a wife was

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<v Speaker 1>a big part of.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, I'm shift, yeah, but I think it was

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<v Speaker 2>it happened more because of the marriage, you know. I

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<v Speaker 2>think prior to that I was very lost and you know,

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<v Speaker 2>seeking love and just harmful ways.

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<v Speaker 1>I think if somebody had asked you prior to all

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<v Speaker 1>of that, you know, in the twenty tens, in the

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<v Speaker 1>two thousands, like what is your worldview? What do you believe?

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<v Speaker 1>Would you have said atheist, agnostic?

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<v Speaker 2>I wouldn't even know what that meant back then, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>to be honest, I think, and I'm sure we'll get

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<v Speaker 2>into the Orthodoxy stuff, but it's like one of the

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<v Speaker 2>things that was very appealing to me with Orthodoxy was

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<v Speaker 2>just that this a better a deeper understanding of actual

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<v Speaker 2>church history, which you know, I had no clue about.

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<v Speaker 2>Like I didn't know what Protestant was. I didn't know,

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<v Speaker 2>you know. I just was like, it's just like people

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<v Speaker 2>who believe in Jesus or something, you know, and that's

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<v Speaker 2>that's that, you know. I didn't understand even my own upbringing,

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<v Speaker 2>to be honest, so I wouldn't have I wasn't intelligent

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<v Speaker 2>in that sense enough to even call myself an atheist

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<v Speaker 2>or agnostic. I think that when times got tough and

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<v Speaker 2>I was hitting rock bottom, there was an innate desire

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<v Speaker 2>to pray. And it wasn't because my parents brought me

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<v Speaker 2>up Christian. It was a desire to reach out for

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<v Speaker 2>help from where it counted. And I think for those

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<v Speaker 2>that have reached rock bottom, like like a real you know, desperation,

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, I'm sure there's many cases everybody. There's lots

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<v Speaker 2>of people that have experienced the same thing. So I

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00:17:36.920 --> 00:17:39.799
<v Speaker 2>remember feeling like, that's so interesting. It's not like I'm

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<v Speaker 2>not calling to my mommy or my dad, like I'm

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<v Speaker 2>calling to you know. So that was that's always stayed

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<v Speaker 2>with me. So even when I was, you know, strayed

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<v Speaker 2>far away, it never really left. And then and then

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<v Speaker 2>it wasn't until about twenty twenty when my husband came

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<v Speaker 2>to me and was like, you know, I think that

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00:18:03.000 --> 00:18:05.559
<v Speaker 2>you know, we got a lot of things wrong. And

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<v Speaker 2>it was like a worldview. It wasn't necessarily a faith

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<v Speaker 2>thing because my husband and I are not necessarily on

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00:18:11.200 --> 00:18:14.559
<v Speaker 2>the same page, and so and I just remember going like,

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<v Speaker 2>show me you know, and I've learned so much from

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<v Speaker 2>my husband, you know, and I think he has like

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00:18:19.000 --> 00:18:21.559
<v Speaker 2>a lot of wisdom to share with me. So it

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<v Speaker 2>changed my perspective on a lot of things. And then

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<v Speaker 2>from that go what else have I gotten wrong? And

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<v Speaker 2>that's when I started like exploring going back to the church, right.

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<v Speaker 1>And you said we could maybe do a little deep

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<v Speaker 1>booking because a lot of people think that because of

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<v Speaker 1>an aesthetic, there might be something edging into the occult

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00:18:43.319 --> 00:18:45.839
<v Speaker 1>or witchcraft or something like that, but You've always maintained

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<v Speaker 1>that you were never really into any of that.

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<v Speaker 2>I think a lot of people, especially like in the

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<v Speaker 2>Christian realm, like when when I got baptized, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>I decided to post a video about it, and it

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<v Speaker 2>got a lot of traction, which was not the reason

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<v Speaker 2>for me posting. I just felt on my heart to

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<v Speaker 2>proclaim my faith honestly and openly because I had gone

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<v Speaker 2>so many years doing the opposite, and so I felt

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<v Speaker 2>like that was the most honest and fairest thing I

356
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<v Speaker 2>could do, especially to people who follow me.

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<v Speaker 1>And I saw an ai of that, and that was

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<v Speaker 1>Was it Spencer baptizing you? Or was that Donald Trump?

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<v Speaker 1>I can't remember there's an Ai. There's a beautiful Ai

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<v Speaker 1>imagery is.

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<v Speaker 2>AI. I mean, I think when it comes to like

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<v Speaker 2>faith or philosophies and stuff, I was, you know, I

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<v Speaker 2>would read a lot of the old philosophers. I was

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<v Speaker 2>a big fan of Nietzsche. Stumbled upon a lot of

365
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<v Speaker 2>self help books at the time, which I wouldn't call

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<v Speaker 2>them self help. I would consider them wisdom books. But

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<v Speaker 2>in hindsight they were all really missing the most important part.

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<v Speaker 2>But as far as the witchcraft thing goes, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>I've I've been a fan of history. I'm still a

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<v Speaker 2>fan of history, and so yeah, did I have things

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<v Speaker 2>that veered into those realms? Did I learn about some

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<v Speaker 2>of that stuff? Shirt? But would I consider myself a

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<v Speaker 2>practicing which no I was, you know, I'm not. I

374
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<v Speaker 2>was never in that club. But there was a point

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<v Speaker 2>where I did get rid of I went through my

376
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<v Speaker 2>library and collection of things and and got rid of,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, things that I just didn't want collecting dust

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<v Speaker 2>around my my sphere, in my child's world either.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, I noticed that because I had a phase

380
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<v Speaker 1>where I was interested in that stuff in my twenties,

381
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<v Speaker 1>and I never got serious about it. But one thing

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<v Speaker 1>that I noticed, and we were talking about this earlier,

383
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<v Speaker 1>is that there's there's never kind of an endpoint. It's

384
00:20:43.440 --> 00:20:46.119
<v Speaker 1>like there's you get into, oh, this esoteric thing, and oh,

385
00:20:46.160 --> 00:20:47.839
<v Speaker 1>but then what about this one over here? And it's

386
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<v Speaker 1>like a never ending sort of it's rabbit trail all

387
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<v Speaker 1>the way down and you never sort of land on anything.

388
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<v Speaker 1>And in my life, even though I was raised Protestant

389
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<v Speaker 1>as well and I've kind of you know, been all

390
00:20:59.079 --> 00:21:01.680
<v Speaker 1>around and experienced for things, I always kind of land

391
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<v Speaker 1>back on if I ever sort of stray. It's like

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<v Speaker 1>I always come back to orthodoxy because there's nothing else

393
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<v Speaker 1>that really gives you a kind of a stability in

394
00:21:10.279 --> 00:21:12.880
<v Speaker 1>terms of a paradigm or worldview compared to all of

395
00:21:12.920 --> 00:21:16.200
<v Speaker 1>these other They just never go anywhere. And they're also

396
00:21:16.279 --> 00:21:20.160
<v Speaker 1>just sort of like they're ideas, and I think we

397
00:21:20.279 --> 00:21:23.440
<v Speaker 1>need more than just a new set of ideas. There's

398
00:21:23.480 --> 00:21:27.240
<v Speaker 1>something that has to be actually real, grounded, historical. And

399
00:21:27.640 --> 00:21:29.720
<v Speaker 1>the reason I keep bringing up past is not to

400
00:21:30.240 --> 00:21:32.599
<v Speaker 1>shame or not to remind you a bad time. It's

401
00:21:32.640 --> 00:21:35.519
<v Speaker 1>important because we did a live stream the other night,

402
00:21:35.640 --> 00:21:39.720
<v Speaker 1>and the whole live stream was about how technocracy technology

403
00:21:39.759 --> 00:21:42.720
<v Speaker 1>is actually I think erasing the past. It's all sort

404
00:21:42.720 --> 00:21:46.720
<v Speaker 1>of a mauist thing to get rid of everybody's previous

405
00:21:46.759 --> 00:21:49.519
<v Speaker 1>memories and existence, to only live in the sort of

406
00:21:49.680 --> 00:21:54.119
<v Speaker 1>immediate and stantiated infinite present. So it's like a mimicking

407
00:21:54.160 --> 00:21:56.839
<v Speaker 1>of God's perspective where you think you're your own God,

408
00:21:56.839 --> 00:21:58.920
<v Speaker 1>but you only live in the immediate, and so you're

409
00:21:59.000 --> 00:22:01.920
<v Speaker 1>past your family, your nation, your history, none of that matters.

410
00:22:01.960 --> 00:22:04.559
<v Speaker 1>It has to be erased and you only live in

411
00:22:04.599 --> 00:22:07.480
<v Speaker 1>the immediate. That way, everybody is like completely controlled. But

412
00:22:07.960 --> 00:22:13.440
<v Speaker 1>that's getting way way too conspiratorial. But the reason.

413
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<v Speaker 2>It's not justly that I'm ashamed of it. I mean,

414
00:22:15.200 --> 00:22:17.319
<v Speaker 2>a good chunk of my life has been documented and

415
00:22:17.440 --> 00:22:21.480
<v Speaker 2>aired publicly, So it's not that i'm you know, I mean,

416
00:22:21.759 --> 00:22:23.759
<v Speaker 2>do I cringe at certain things I said at a

417
00:22:23.799 --> 00:22:26.400
<v Speaker 2>certain time, sure, But I also I'm proud of myself

418
00:22:26.440 --> 00:22:28.680
<v Speaker 2>that I'm not stuck in that same place when I

419
00:22:28.680 --> 00:22:31.759
<v Speaker 2>have friends that never moved on from those those you know, yeah,

420
00:22:32.720 --> 00:22:35.640
<v Speaker 2>those times. So it's no, I'm just I'm just poking

421
00:22:35.680 --> 00:22:37.759
<v Speaker 2>fun at you just because you've brought up old quotes

422
00:22:37.759 --> 00:22:39.240
<v Speaker 2>from old interviews that I'm just like.

423
00:22:41.599 --> 00:22:47.559
<v Speaker 1>What are the three transfer of energy words? Everyone I

424
00:22:47.599 --> 00:22:50.119
<v Speaker 1>just did a podcast with Eddie Bravo, and you told

425
00:22:50.240 --> 00:22:54.799
<v Speaker 1>Eddie Bravo, there are three words gave me.

426
00:22:54.839 --> 00:22:59.359
<v Speaker 2>I agreed to this. You're in my house, all right.

427
00:22:59.440 --> 00:23:02.119
<v Speaker 1>So one thing I noticed in some of the older

428
00:23:02.119 --> 00:23:04.400
<v Speaker 1>interviews that was interesting was that you did also kind

429
00:23:04.440 --> 00:23:08.599
<v Speaker 1>of mention the demonic. You said that, yeah, I want

430
00:23:08.640 --> 00:23:10.279
<v Speaker 1>and this might be a newer interview, but you said

431
00:23:10.359 --> 00:23:14.960
<v Speaker 1>something like you did come to believe that demons and

432
00:23:15.039 --> 00:23:19.279
<v Speaker 1>monic possession was real. I'm curious what was it just

433
00:23:19.359 --> 00:23:22.599
<v Speaker 1>the Christian paradigm or was there anything else? Perhaps I

434
00:23:22.599 --> 00:23:26.400
<v Speaker 1>gonna like the temptation to addiction, Like is there something

435
00:23:26.440 --> 00:23:29.480
<v Speaker 1>that peaked the idea of the demonic in what you're

436
00:23:29.799 --> 00:23:30.799
<v Speaker 1>talking about?

437
00:23:31.039 --> 00:23:35.799
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I just think that sometimes you can understand

438
00:23:35.799 --> 00:23:38.519
<v Speaker 2>things like it's easy to be like that's demonic based

439
00:23:38.519 --> 00:23:41.079
<v Speaker 2>off of a movie like and I love the Exorcist

440
00:23:41.279 --> 00:23:43.839
<v Speaker 2>genre as well, that's my number one favorite type of movie.

441
00:23:43.839 --> 00:23:47.200
<v Speaker 2>But and I think some things are it might be

442
00:23:47.279 --> 00:23:49.160
<v Speaker 2>that way. I'm not an exorcist, so I can't speak

443
00:23:49.200 --> 00:23:51.480
<v Speaker 2>to that, but I know that there are people that

444
00:23:51.599 --> 00:23:54.279
<v Speaker 2>become possessed by worldly things, and like, if you want

445
00:23:54.279 --> 00:23:58.519
<v Speaker 2>to label that a demon, it makes sense to me,

446
00:23:58.640 --> 00:24:02.160
<v Speaker 2>you know, like I'm happily sober for actually I'm like

447
00:24:02.200 --> 00:24:06.359
<v Speaker 2>losing count might be sixteen, seventeen years now, maybe eighteen.

448
00:24:07.720 --> 00:24:11.240
<v Speaker 2>And I don't want to blame, you know, my past

449
00:24:11.240 --> 00:24:14.839
<v Speaker 2>addiction on a demon you know, even though I would

450
00:24:14.920 --> 00:24:17.480
<v Speaker 2>say that when you're on drugs, it is a type

451
00:24:17.480 --> 00:24:20.680
<v Speaker 2>of possession. You know, you're not in control, You're not

452
00:24:21.039 --> 00:24:25.920
<v Speaker 2>you know, and so whether you relinquish that power over

453
00:24:26.000 --> 00:24:29.480
<v Speaker 2>to another entity, you know, is that That's what I

454
00:24:29.559 --> 00:24:31.880
<v Speaker 2>think I meant by in that quote. It is all

455
00:24:31.880 --> 00:24:36.240
<v Speaker 2>fascinating to me, you know. I think that I get

456
00:24:36.279 --> 00:24:39.480
<v Speaker 2>called demonic all the time, probably just because of my

457
00:24:39.519 --> 00:24:41.680
<v Speaker 2>aesthetic or you know, maybe some of the lyrics in

458
00:24:41.720 --> 00:24:45.880
<v Speaker 2>my music are misconstrued, but I don't, I don't. I

459
00:24:45.920 --> 00:24:49.640
<v Speaker 2>would say that that's like a superficial like label. That's

460
00:24:49.680 --> 00:24:52.559
<v Speaker 2>not you know, when I'm talking about a demonic possession,

461
00:24:52.559 --> 00:24:54.039
<v Speaker 2>I'm that's not what I'm referring to it.

462
00:24:54.240 --> 00:24:57.759
<v Speaker 1>No, Well, I had a really bad acidrip one time,

463
00:24:57.799 --> 00:25:01.519
<v Speaker 1>and I think I did see something actually demonic. So

464
00:25:01.559 --> 00:25:04.000
<v Speaker 1>I was just curious if there was because you had

465
00:25:04.079 --> 00:25:05.960
<v Speaker 1>mentioned drugs in the past, like if there was a

466
00:25:05.960 --> 00:25:08.160
<v Speaker 1>bad experience or if it was just more so like

467
00:25:08.640 --> 00:25:10.599
<v Speaker 1>this is becoming an addiction.

468
00:25:11.240 --> 00:25:13.880
<v Speaker 2>I'd have tried acid and shrooms and stuff maybe once

469
00:25:14.000 --> 00:25:17.400
<v Speaker 2>or twice, but my drug of choice was more uppers.

470
00:25:17.400 --> 00:25:21.359
<v Speaker 2>So I you know, I think that that maybe it's

471
00:25:21.359 --> 00:25:23.839
<v Speaker 2>a different type of demon you know, I think, I mean,

472
00:25:23.880 --> 00:25:25.440
<v Speaker 2>it's definitely a different.

473
00:25:25.200 --> 00:25:28.440
<v Speaker 1>Flavor I think, and what so you.

474
00:25:28.640 --> 00:25:31.960
<v Speaker 2>But I don't think I saw a physical monster or something.

475
00:25:32.000 --> 00:25:34.880
<v Speaker 2>I'm talking about like a demonic possession of the heart

476
00:25:34.880 --> 00:25:35.640
<v Speaker 2>and you know.

477
00:25:35.720 --> 00:25:37.400
<v Speaker 1>Right like where we put all of our time and

478
00:25:37.480 --> 00:25:41.759
<v Speaker 1>energy and yeah, you mentioned as well, like a period

479
00:25:41.759 --> 00:25:42.359
<v Speaker 1>of AA.

480
00:25:43.440 --> 00:25:44.680
<v Speaker 2>I was never a fan of A. I mean, I

481
00:25:45.039 --> 00:25:47.559
<v Speaker 2>love the Big Book. I think the Steps are awesome.

482
00:25:47.640 --> 00:25:49.559
<v Speaker 2>I would I think the world would be better off

483
00:25:49.599 --> 00:25:51.559
<v Speaker 2>if everybody did the twelve steps at one point and

484
00:25:51.680 --> 00:25:54.480
<v Speaker 2>did the inventory. I personally do that now as an

485
00:25:54.519 --> 00:26:00.279
<v Speaker 2>Orthodox Christian, like through confession, and but I'm just not

486
00:26:00.319 --> 00:26:02.920
<v Speaker 2>a fan of group therapy in general, Like I've never

487
00:26:02.960 --> 00:26:05.240
<v Speaker 2>been good at that. And I think too, like the

488
00:26:05.279 --> 00:26:09.559
<v Speaker 2>anonymous part is very rarely honored within that circle, especially

489
00:26:09.599 --> 00:26:11.960
<v Speaker 2>in LA. I would go to a meeting and then

490
00:26:12.079 --> 00:26:13.839
<v Speaker 2>I would have to like hear about it on Twitter

491
00:26:13.880 --> 00:26:14.799
<v Speaker 2>somehow or whatever.

492
00:26:15.400 --> 00:26:19.000
<v Speaker 1>You said that a lot of the stand ups practice

493
00:26:19.000 --> 00:26:20.279
<v Speaker 1>their new material. A.

494
00:26:20.839 --> 00:26:22.559
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean in LA it's a different story. And

495
00:26:22.599 --> 00:26:25.319
<v Speaker 2>I know that there are like pockets of meetings where

496
00:26:25.319 --> 00:26:28.079
<v Speaker 2>there's more like elders that are more serious.

497
00:26:28.839 --> 00:26:29.960
<v Speaker 1>You got a good drunk joke?

498
00:26:30.440 --> 00:26:31.640
<v Speaker 2>Do I have a good drunk joke?

499
00:26:31.960 --> 00:26:32.880
<v Speaker 1>From the comedians?

500
00:26:33.039 --> 00:26:35.319
<v Speaker 2>Oh? No, I just feel like when people would go

501
00:26:35.400 --> 00:26:39.160
<v Speaker 2>up to say their their story, a lot of times

502
00:26:39.200 --> 00:26:44.000
<v Speaker 2>it's like I would see, you know, some up and

503
00:26:44.000 --> 00:26:46.720
<v Speaker 2>coming comedians like practicing bits and things like that. Yeah,

504
00:26:47.400 --> 00:26:51.119
<v Speaker 2>sometimes I don't know. I'm not trying to judge because honestly,

505
00:26:51.200 --> 00:26:53.119
<v Speaker 2>like everybody's trying their best.

506
00:26:53.160 --> 00:26:55.680
<v Speaker 1>I guess, but I'm trying to judge. I'll be all

507
00:26:55.720 --> 00:26:56.960
<v Speaker 1>about that judgement listen.

508
00:26:57.200 --> 00:26:58.880
<v Speaker 2>But I think my biggest gripe with it was just

509
00:26:58.920 --> 00:27:02.200
<v Speaker 2>more like I never felt safe to in those circles,

510
00:27:02.240 --> 00:27:04.559
<v Speaker 2>but also to like I just you know, where's the

511
00:27:04.559 --> 00:27:06.319
<v Speaker 2>step where you don't have to do any more steps?

512
00:27:06.519 --> 00:27:08.720
<v Speaker 2>That's that's the part where it's like, where's the step

513
00:27:08.720 --> 00:27:11.039
<v Speaker 2>where you can stop calling yourself an addict? Like I

514
00:27:11.079 --> 00:27:13.400
<v Speaker 2>don't consider myself an addict because I don't do drugs

515
00:27:13.400 --> 00:27:15.640
<v Speaker 2>anymore and I don't drink, you know, it's like but

516
00:27:15.759 --> 00:27:19.200
<v Speaker 2>for them, it's like this like label of it's a

517
00:27:19.240 --> 00:27:21.880
<v Speaker 2>forever mark that you have to go to everybody forever

518
00:27:22.000 --> 00:27:24.720
<v Speaker 2>or else if you don't, you will fall. And it's

519
00:27:24.759 --> 00:27:28.759
<v Speaker 2>like I see that with my relationship with Christ, like

520
00:27:29.119 --> 00:27:32.200
<v Speaker 2>I have to keep my you know, my my eye

521
00:27:32.240 --> 00:27:34.880
<v Speaker 2>on that prize. And but I don't need to go

522
00:27:35.079 --> 00:27:39.759
<v Speaker 2>to you know, a meeting with with you know, some

523
00:27:40.680 --> 00:27:43.640
<v Speaker 2>Hollywood people to confirm that. But I do feel like

524
00:27:43.680 --> 00:27:46.559
<v Speaker 2>I need to do it, like you know, with my

525
00:27:46.640 --> 00:27:49.279
<v Speaker 2>parish and my priest and saints all around me. But

526
00:27:49.559 --> 00:27:54.359
<v Speaker 2>you know, at one point when I first became an

527
00:27:54.359 --> 00:27:58.880
<v Speaker 2>inquirer and like started really seriously I'm going into Orthodoxy,

528
00:27:59.279 --> 00:28:01.319
<v Speaker 2>you know, I it's all I could think about, and

529
00:28:01.359 --> 00:28:04.599
<v Speaker 2>it's all I wanted to think about, and and I'm

530
00:28:04.599 --> 00:28:08.000
<v Speaker 2>still that way now, but it got to the point where,

531
00:28:08.680 --> 00:28:11.920
<v Speaker 2>you know, it was causing problems in my own marriage,

532
00:28:12.000 --> 00:28:15.359
<v Speaker 2>you know, because I just wanted to be in church

533
00:28:15.400 --> 00:28:19.400
<v Speaker 2>all the time, and and you know, my husband is

534
00:28:19.519 --> 00:28:21.799
<v Speaker 2>very supportive of me, and he's very patient and loving,

535
00:28:21.839 --> 00:28:25.920
<v Speaker 2>but he's not you know, he's not a Catechuman. He's

536
00:28:25.960 --> 00:28:29.559
<v Speaker 2>not for you know, and that's something that's you know,

537
00:28:29.920 --> 00:28:32.319
<v Speaker 2>it's a struggle for us sometimes. But I remember at

538
00:28:32.319 --> 00:28:35.920
<v Speaker 2>one point he's like, like, I'm competing with Jesus at

539
00:28:35.920 --> 00:28:39.279
<v Speaker 2>this point, and I really had to look at and

540
00:28:39.319 --> 00:28:41.359
<v Speaker 2>I you know, I've talked to my priest about it

541
00:28:41.400 --> 00:28:43.880
<v Speaker 2>and everything, and it's like, there's a point where it's like,

542
00:28:44.279 --> 00:28:47.279
<v Speaker 2>I need to make time for my marriage and not

543
00:28:47.799 --> 00:28:49.160
<v Speaker 2>you know, because if it's up to me, if I

544
00:28:49.160 --> 00:28:53.400
<v Speaker 2>didn't have the responsibility of a marriage or motherhood, I

545
00:28:53.480 --> 00:28:55.799
<v Speaker 2>might consider the monastic life, you know, and like that

546
00:28:55.799 --> 00:28:58.160
<v Speaker 2>that to me is very appealing, you know. But but

547
00:28:58.200 --> 00:29:01.599
<v Speaker 2>I'm also a very extreme personality. So it's like, but

548
00:29:01.640 --> 00:29:04.559
<v Speaker 2>that's not the that's not the card that I'm dealt,

549
00:29:04.640 --> 00:29:08.319
<v Speaker 2>you know. And so I have to make sure to

550
00:29:08.319 --> 00:29:10.480
<v Speaker 2>take care of my marriage and take care of my

551
00:29:10.519 --> 00:29:12.720
<v Speaker 2>mother and still prioritize that, and you can you can

552
00:29:12.720 --> 00:29:14.319
<v Speaker 2>balance that together. I don't know why I got on

553
00:29:14.359 --> 00:29:19.319
<v Speaker 2>this tangent. I know we were okay, oh no, but

554
00:29:19.319 --> 00:29:20.559
<v Speaker 2>there's a reason why I brought it up. We were

555
00:29:20.559 --> 00:29:22.119
<v Speaker 2>talking about something prior to this.

556
00:29:22.240 --> 00:29:24.680
<v Speaker 1>In other words, he's not Orthodox. Would you describe him

557
00:29:24.680 --> 00:29:26.559
<v Speaker 1>as an eventual local?

558
00:29:27.119 --> 00:29:33.480
<v Speaker 2>No, Oh, my gosh, I just got it. We just yeah, no, no,

559
00:29:33.640 --> 00:29:38.440
<v Speaker 2>Raphael was. He was brought up Roman Catholic, so but

560
00:29:38.720 --> 00:29:41.480
<v Speaker 2>I wouldn't say he's a practicing you know, he comes

561
00:29:41.480 --> 00:29:43.799
<v Speaker 2>to church with me every you know, on Sundays he

562
00:29:43.839 --> 00:29:46.799
<v Speaker 2>comes with me, and you know, my our son just

563
00:29:46.799 --> 00:29:48.720
<v Speaker 2>got baptized and he's very happy about that. And he

564
00:29:48.759 --> 00:29:50.640
<v Speaker 2>loves Orthodoxy and he loves it for me. That's what

565
00:29:50.680 --> 00:29:54.759
<v Speaker 2>I was going to say was that, you know, in AA,

566
00:29:54.839 --> 00:29:58.240
<v Speaker 2>it's like when there's people that's like, I have to

567
00:29:58.240 --> 00:30:00.400
<v Speaker 2>have this meeting WHI else I'm going to relax, you know.

568
00:30:00.480 --> 00:30:02.920
<v Speaker 2>And to me, I remember sitting down with my husband

569
00:30:02.920 --> 00:30:05.599
<v Speaker 2>explaining to him that like this might I might be

570
00:30:05.640 --> 00:30:08.799
<v Speaker 2>annoying to you in a sense, but like Jesus is

571
00:30:08.839 --> 00:30:11.480
<v Speaker 2>the best thing to have happened to me and to you,

572
00:30:12.079 --> 00:30:18.160
<v Speaker 2>because without this peace, I will ruin everything. I've ruined

573
00:30:18.160 --> 00:30:21.599
<v Speaker 2>all my other relationships prior to you know, I have

574
00:30:21.680 --> 00:30:24.599
<v Speaker 2>a I have never been faithful until my marriage, you know,

575
00:30:24.640 --> 00:30:28.200
<v Speaker 2>and it's like and and the biggest part to that

576
00:30:28.359 --> 00:30:33.400
<v Speaker 2>is is the Jesus part. And so I sometimes I

577
00:30:33.480 --> 00:30:35.480
<v Speaker 2>you know, I think I think he understands that. It's

578
00:30:35.519 --> 00:30:37.400
<v Speaker 2>like it's good for me, you know, it's it's good

579
00:30:37.440 --> 00:30:38.799
<v Speaker 2>for me to go to church, and it's good for

580
00:30:38.839 --> 00:30:41.319
<v Speaker 2>me to be surrounded by that and have these daily reminders.

581
00:30:42.079 --> 00:30:46.119
<v Speaker 2>You know, I'm a hard headed person, so I tend

582
00:30:46.160 --> 00:30:49.559
<v Speaker 2>to need these daily reminders all around me, whether it's

583
00:30:49.599 --> 00:30:52.720
<v Speaker 2>like the cross around my neck to the things in

584
00:30:52.759 --> 00:30:53.839
<v Speaker 2>my household, and.

585
00:30:54.319 --> 00:30:57.400
<v Speaker 1>Oh, we'll do it. We're all that way. Like one

586
00:30:57.400 --> 00:30:59.799
<v Speaker 1>thing you said though before we got to the Orthodox part,

587
00:31:01.039 --> 00:31:02.759
<v Speaker 1>and I think we were eating dinner and you said this,

588
00:31:03.680 --> 00:31:08.200
<v Speaker 1>So AA has this idea that you just appeal to

589
00:31:08.240 --> 00:31:11.440
<v Speaker 1>any higher power. And I've always seen that as because

590
00:31:11.440 --> 00:31:12.720
<v Speaker 1>I've had a lot of friends that have gone to AA,

591
00:31:12.759 --> 00:31:14.400
<v Speaker 1>and so I've always seen that as kind of one

592
00:31:14.440 --> 00:31:18.079
<v Speaker 1>of the flaws in that system is And I just

593
00:31:18.119 --> 00:31:20.200
<v Speaker 1>had a debate with two dudes the other day. Those

594
00:31:20.240 --> 00:31:23.400
<v Speaker 1>guys whole ethos was to defend the idea that it

595
00:31:23.440 --> 00:31:26.000
<v Speaker 1>doesn't really matter about Jesus, it's more so just generic God.

596
00:31:26.079 --> 00:31:28.640
<v Speaker 1>But the problem is that generic God is generic. It

597
00:31:28.640 --> 00:31:31.319
<v Speaker 1>doesn't tell us anything about you know, be like saying

598
00:31:31.359 --> 00:31:34.400
<v Speaker 1>if you I mean imagine saying that instead of well,

599
00:31:34.440 --> 00:31:36.559
<v Speaker 1>I'm not in love with my wife, Jamie, I'm in

600
00:31:36.559 --> 00:31:40.839
<v Speaker 1>love with woman. I'm in love with human. Right, it's

601
00:31:40.880 --> 00:31:43.440
<v Speaker 1>not specific to tell you anything that's the same. It's like, oh,

602
00:31:43.440 --> 00:31:45.279
<v Speaker 1>I just believe in God. And the whole thing with

603
00:31:45.359 --> 00:31:48.240
<v Speaker 1>AA is that although there might be some pragmatic things

604
00:31:48.240 --> 00:31:50.319
<v Speaker 1>that help people, if at the end of the day,

605
00:31:50.400 --> 00:31:53.359
<v Speaker 1>it's just generic God, it's allowing you to paste into

606
00:31:53.440 --> 00:31:56.799
<v Speaker 1>it whatever you want. But that's the problem, is that

607
00:31:57.160 --> 00:32:01.359
<v Speaker 1>what those people are after is what it's not offering, Like,

608
00:32:01.480 --> 00:32:04.880
<v Speaker 1>it's not offering the specificity of Yeah, that's an awesome.

609
00:32:04.599 --> 00:32:07.359
<v Speaker 2>Way to put it. Yeah it does. But I will say,

610
00:32:07.400 --> 00:32:09.240
<v Speaker 2>you know, I think I'm not knocking AA in any

611
00:32:09.279 --> 00:32:12.599
<v Speaker 2>way because it's helped so many people, including myself. I

612
00:32:12.640 --> 00:32:17.960
<v Speaker 2>think whatever gets you sober is the best thing because

613
00:32:18.200 --> 00:32:21.039
<v Speaker 2>without sobriety, like I wouldn't be a good Christian, I

614
00:32:21.079 --> 00:32:24.359
<v Speaker 2>wouldn't be a good mom, or a good wife, a.

615
00:32:24.319 --> 00:32:26.640
<v Speaker 1>Good friend, or good anything literally anything.

616
00:32:27.000 --> 00:32:31.400
<v Speaker 2>If I'm on drugs, I'm going to tear apart my world.

617
00:32:32.400 --> 00:32:33.119
<v Speaker 2>Is that what you're asking?

618
00:32:33.240 --> 00:32:34.759
<v Speaker 1>I'm just saying, could there be a trade off that

619
00:32:34.839 --> 00:32:37.160
<v Speaker 1>you said anything that gets you off of drugs? So no,

620
00:32:37.240 --> 00:32:38.279
<v Speaker 1>I'm obsessed with creed.

621
00:32:39.839 --> 00:32:45.839
<v Speaker 2>No, no, no, I'm sorry, You're right. I shouldn't have generalized.

622
00:32:45.839 --> 00:32:52.480
<v Speaker 2>I'm not a debater. Okay, it feels like it. Oh no, no,

623
00:32:52.480 --> 00:32:54.079
<v Speaker 2>not at all. But I will say I was like

624
00:32:54.119 --> 00:32:56.519
<v Speaker 2>intimidated when you asked me to do this, because I

625
00:32:56.519 --> 00:32:59.400
<v Speaker 2>was like, you know, I'm sure I've obviously seen your debates,

626
00:32:59.400 --> 00:33:04.039
<v Speaker 2>and I'm like some sometimes I I have to look

627
00:33:04.079 --> 00:33:05.920
<v Speaker 2>up words that you say, and like, you know, it's

628
00:33:05.960 --> 00:33:08.680
<v Speaker 2>hard to keep up because you're appear you know, and

629
00:33:08.720 --> 00:33:09.920
<v Speaker 2>it's it's very cool.

630
00:33:10.079 --> 00:33:12.640
<v Speaker 1>I love that it's word solid. I don't even know

631
00:33:13.400 --> 00:33:15.720
<v Speaker 1>what's half the word's name. But if I write down

632
00:33:15.759 --> 00:33:19.000
<v Speaker 1>a fancy word, I got a booklet it's called fancy Words.

633
00:33:19.039 --> 00:33:20.640
<v Speaker 1>And then so I'm just in the middle of a debate,

634
00:33:20.680 --> 00:33:23.799
<v Speaker 1>I'll appeal to the fancy word booklet. Yeah, well I

635
00:33:23.839 --> 00:33:24.559
<v Speaker 1>just know the words.

636
00:33:24.680 --> 00:33:27.240
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Hopefully we're not letting down your audience considering that

637
00:33:27.279 --> 00:33:29.920
<v Speaker 2>this is this this is a different type of word salad.

638
00:33:30.400 --> 00:33:37.039
<v Speaker 1>Right, So you're in a a you it helps you.

639
00:33:37.200 --> 00:33:39.000
<v Speaker 2>I only I've only gone to A a few times.

640
00:33:39.039 --> 00:33:41.599
<v Speaker 1>We weren't there a lot a lot, and then you

641
00:33:41.680 --> 00:33:45.160
<v Speaker 1>just decided I got to make these choices, these changes.

642
00:33:45.440 --> 00:33:47.240
<v Speaker 2>I've just always been lone wolf about things. I'm like,

643
00:33:47.240 --> 00:33:48.480
<v Speaker 2>I can do this on my own and I think

644
00:33:48.519 --> 00:33:50.160
<v Speaker 2>a lot of that is where I started going into

645
00:33:50.160 --> 00:33:54.440
<v Speaker 2>self help stuff. You know, I find you know, not

646
00:33:54.440 --> 00:33:57.720
<v Speaker 2>necessarily manifest like that kind of stuff, but you know,

647
00:33:58.359 --> 00:34:00.200
<v Speaker 2>and I don't even want to bring up the types

648
00:34:00.240 --> 00:34:03.000
<v Speaker 2>of books, but you know, just things that there feel

649
00:34:03.039 --> 00:34:07.079
<v Speaker 2>good and it feels like you're making progress, you know,

650
00:34:07.200 --> 00:34:10.480
<v Speaker 2>and I think I was, you know, but it's it

651
00:34:10.559 --> 00:34:14.039
<v Speaker 2>was like such a tip of an iceberg. But yeah,

652
00:34:14.079 --> 00:34:16.800
<v Speaker 2>so it's kind of like I just started getting sober

653
00:34:17.320 --> 00:34:19.719
<v Speaker 2>on my own, right, So I didn't depend on the

654
00:34:19.760 --> 00:34:21.840
<v Speaker 2>meetings or anything, but I did have to go through

655
00:34:22.320 --> 00:34:24.880
<v Speaker 2>like the roll decks of friends and drug dealers and

656
00:34:24.920 --> 00:34:27.039
<v Speaker 2>everything and delete everything and start from scratch. And you

657
00:34:27.320 --> 00:34:29.840
<v Speaker 2>realize very quickly that you don't have any friends, you know.

658
00:34:29.880 --> 00:34:33.360
<v Speaker 2>I mean most of the people that I was surrounded

659
00:34:33.360 --> 00:34:36.400
<v Speaker 2>by at the time were fellow drug addicts, you know.

660
00:34:36.639 --> 00:34:38.320
<v Speaker 2>And it's I mean, and it makes sense.

661
00:34:38.400 --> 00:34:41.599
<v Speaker 1>So you ghosted Pablo Escobar and now he's like, hey,

662
00:34:41.599 --> 00:34:44.960
<v Speaker 1>where's she dude?

663
00:34:45.119 --> 00:34:47.920
<v Speaker 2>It was more like the bouncer at a strip club

664
00:34:48.000 --> 00:34:48.760
<v Speaker 2>or something like that.

665
00:34:50.519 --> 00:34:57.079
<v Speaker 1>So then what tips the scale towards going back to Jesus? Right,

666
00:34:57.119 --> 00:35:01.000
<v Speaker 1>Because I know there's a phase of if youangelicalism where

667
00:35:01.000 --> 00:35:02.880
<v Speaker 1>you kind of immediately get back on the sphere of

668
00:35:03.519 --> 00:35:06.119
<v Speaker 1>Protestant Evangelicalsot.

669
00:35:05.039 --> 00:35:07.960
<v Speaker 2>How did I make my way back to Jesus. Yeah,

670
00:35:07.960 --> 00:35:10.880
<v Speaker 2>that was in twenty twenty, and I was like years later,

671
00:35:10.920 --> 00:35:15.519
<v Speaker 2>I was already sober for many years. Yeah. Yeah, it

672
00:35:15.599 --> 00:35:18.599
<v Speaker 2>was just I think seeing what happened during twenty twenty

673
00:35:19.000 --> 00:35:26.719
<v Speaker 2>with the lockdowns and just so much crazy misinformation, and

674
00:35:26.840 --> 00:35:31.000
<v Speaker 2>just I lived in LA in the middle of all

675
00:35:31.039 --> 00:35:33.360
<v Speaker 2>that when it was happening, and so I got like

676
00:35:33.440 --> 00:35:36.239
<v Speaker 2>front row seats to it wasn't even what the news

677
00:35:36.280 --> 00:35:38.920
<v Speaker 2>was showing you, because it wasn't. It was I think worse.

678
00:35:39.079 --> 00:35:42.000
<v Speaker 2>But and so I started questioning a lot of things

679
00:35:42.039 --> 00:35:44.199
<v Speaker 2>that at the time I was like, I used to

680
00:35:44.239 --> 00:35:46.000
<v Speaker 2>be so gung ho about this, and I realized I

681
00:35:46.000 --> 00:35:48.599
<v Speaker 2>got things wrong, you know. And so then Rafa has

682
00:35:48.599 --> 00:35:53.039
<v Speaker 2>always again, even though he's not necessarily a Christian, he's

683
00:35:53.039 --> 00:35:55.440
<v Speaker 2>always been pointing me in that direction. I do believe

684
00:35:55.440 --> 00:35:58.000
<v Speaker 2>that's a part of why God's paired us, you know.

685
00:35:58.519 --> 00:36:02.440
<v Speaker 2>And so I definitely just credit my husband towards all

686
00:36:02.480 --> 00:36:05.079
<v Speaker 2>these pretty large landmarks, you know. And then once I,

687
00:36:05.639 --> 00:36:10.880
<v Speaker 2>once I you know, started going to church again, we

688
00:36:11.079 --> 00:36:13.480
<v Speaker 2>decided to leave California at that time.

689
00:36:13.320 --> 00:36:17.519
<v Speaker 1>And then was it the dystopian aspect of that period

690
00:36:17.559 --> 00:36:20.400
<v Speaker 1>of twenty twenty, Like was that what I'm.

691
00:36:20.199 --> 00:36:22.039
<v Speaker 2>Not a fan of government. I have never been a

692
00:36:22.079 --> 00:36:25.199
<v Speaker 2>fan of government per se. I mean I like very

693
00:36:25.199 --> 00:36:29.440
<v Speaker 2>small government, but or I prefer that. But like in

694
00:36:29.440 --> 00:36:32.280
<v Speaker 2>California specifically, I was. I was not a fan of

695
00:36:32.679 --> 00:36:36.159
<v Speaker 2>our governor, still not. And you know, I have such

696
00:36:36.159 --> 00:36:39.559
<v Speaker 2>a love for California and seeing it destroyed the way

697
00:36:39.559 --> 00:36:42.159
<v Speaker 2>that it's been, it's like, you really have to be

698
00:36:42.559 --> 00:36:46.119
<v Speaker 2>super hardheaded to not hold certain people accountable. And so

699
00:36:46.280 --> 00:36:49.159
<v Speaker 2>after twenty twenty and seeing like the government overreach that

700
00:36:49.159 --> 00:36:51.440
<v Speaker 2>took place, I mean, I had my tattoo shop for

701
00:36:51.480 --> 00:36:53.360
<v Speaker 2>over twelve years and I lost it due to a

702
00:36:53.440 --> 00:36:57.000
<v Speaker 2>lockdown that was not handled with small businesses in mind.

703
00:36:57.840 --> 00:37:01.880
<v Speaker 2>But with that being said, we had a really small

704
00:37:01.960 --> 00:37:05.519
<v Speaker 2>child at the time, and we had a beautiful house

705
00:37:05.880 --> 00:37:09.440
<v Speaker 2>in Hancock Park. It was a nice area, and we

706
00:37:09.480 --> 00:37:12.440
<v Speaker 2>realized that we just never left. We were just always

707
00:37:12.519 --> 00:37:15.400
<v Speaker 2>I'm like, are we confined to our small front yard

708
00:37:15.880 --> 00:37:17.599
<v Speaker 2>for the rest of our life because we don't want

709
00:37:17.599 --> 00:37:19.599
<v Speaker 2>to go out there anymore? This isn't you know how

710
00:37:19.679 --> 00:37:23.639
<v Speaker 2>are we raising Leaphar, you know, And so I've always

711
00:37:23.679 --> 00:37:28.480
<v Speaker 2>been a huge fan of restoration for Victorian homes, and

712
00:37:28.800 --> 00:37:34.360
<v Speaker 2>I had restored that house for eight years. And then

713
00:37:34.559 --> 00:37:36.239
<v Speaker 2>there was this house in the middle of nowhere in

714
00:37:36.239 --> 00:37:39.119
<v Speaker 2>Indiana that was operating as a bed and breakfast for

715
00:37:39.639 --> 00:37:43.159
<v Speaker 2>twenty years and it went on the market and it's

716
00:37:43.199 --> 00:37:45.239
<v Speaker 2>a very unique home, which is the one that we're

717
00:37:45.239 --> 00:37:48.360
<v Speaker 2>in right now. And I remember telling Raf. I was like, hey,

718
00:37:48.440 --> 00:37:51.280
<v Speaker 2>let's just fly out there and just see it. You know,

719
00:37:51.400 --> 00:37:55.679
<v Speaker 2>like other than driving through Indiana, I've never spent time here.

720
00:37:55.760 --> 00:37:57.760
<v Speaker 2>I never I don't have friends here or anything.

721
00:37:58.159 --> 00:38:01.079
<v Speaker 1>So you flee California.

722
00:38:01.320 --> 00:38:03.159
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean that sounds dramatic, but yeah, it was

723
00:38:03.199 --> 00:38:06.760
<v Speaker 2>a process. We moved out of California and we found

724
00:38:06.760 --> 00:38:09.559
<v Speaker 2>this place. And you know, it's a very small town

725
00:38:09.599 --> 00:38:13.639
<v Speaker 2>of twelve hundred people, and it's so small that it

726
00:38:13.639 --> 00:38:16.360
<v Speaker 2>doesn't even have a mayor. It's just it was the

727
00:38:16.440 --> 00:38:22.880
<v Speaker 2>perfect balance of nature. But I'm like a majority of

728
00:38:22.880 --> 00:38:26.280
<v Speaker 2>people here working class. It's just nice neighbors. You know,

729
00:38:26.480 --> 00:38:29.199
<v Speaker 2>I lived I lived in my house in LA for

730
00:38:29.239 --> 00:38:31.880
<v Speaker 2>eight years and I cannot tell you my neighbor's name.

731
00:38:32.639 --> 00:38:38.159
<v Speaker 2>And here there's just a true sense of community. So

732
00:38:38.440 --> 00:38:41.000
<v Speaker 2>we love that and people leave us alone, like, you know,

733
00:38:41.039 --> 00:38:43.679
<v Speaker 2>it's easy for us to have like a normal life,

734
00:38:43.719 --> 00:38:46.639
<v Speaker 2>and you know, my kid can run around and be

735
00:38:46.719 --> 00:38:50.119
<v Speaker 2>a kid and we don't have to worry about the craziness.

736
00:38:50.280 --> 00:38:55.079
<v Speaker 1>This mansion is amazing. It's actually like resident Evil, like

737
00:38:55.119 --> 00:38:57.360
<v Speaker 1>when you're wandering around and then you come up here

738
00:38:57.400 --> 00:38:59.519
<v Speaker 1>to the crow's nose. The first time I came here,

739
00:38:59.519 --> 00:39:01.880
<v Speaker 1>I was like, this is where you snipe the peasants, right,

740
00:39:02.719 --> 00:39:04.400
<v Speaker 1>the zombie peasant villagers.

741
00:39:04.599 --> 00:39:07.480
<v Speaker 2>It's just like, well, for context, we are sitting in

742
00:39:07.599 --> 00:39:10.079
<v Speaker 2>what we call the crows and us. It's the four

743
00:39:10.159 --> 00:39:12.840
<v Speaker 2>story tower of this building that when we bought it

744
00:39:12.880 --> 00:39:15.280
<v Speaker 2>was pretty much just abandoned. There was like dead birds

745
00:39:15.280 --> 00:39:17.800
<v Speaker 2>and flies everywhere, and so then I decided to make

746
00:39:17.840 --> 00:39:23.079
<v Speaker 2>it like a tea room. So but we love this room.

747
00:39:23.199 --> 00:39:26.880
<v Speaker 2>It's pretty, it's cool, and this is the first time

748
00:39:26.880 --> 00:39:28.760
<v Speaker 2>I'm actually hanging out in it, Like this is the

749
00:39:28.800 --> 00:39:30.880
<v Speaker 2>first time we've filmed done anything in here.

750
00:39:31.840 --> 00:39:36.039
<v Speaker 1>So you flee here but not in flight, and you

751
00:39:36.119 --> 00:39:38.800
<v Speaker 1>come to the middle of nowhere, and this is concurrent

752
00:39:38.840 --> 00:39:43.920
<v Speaker 1>with you transitioning to a new paradigminal worldview, and originally

753
00:39:43.960 --> 00:39:47.559
<v Speaker 1>I think you said it's like sort of Baptist evangelical ideology.

754
00:39:47.960 --> 00:39:48.519
<v Speaker 1>So I'm curious.

755
00:39:48.639 --> 00:39:53.719
<v Speaker 2>We landed here, and I just prayed to for the

756
00:39:53.760 --> 00:39:56.760
<v Speaker 2>Lord to put us in at the footsteps of the

757
00:39:56.840 --> 00:39:59.599
<v Speaker 2>right place. And you know, because it is a small town,

758
00:39:59.639 --> 00:40:01.880
<v Speaker 2>it's not like there's an Orthodox church or and there's

759
00:40:01.920 --> 00:40:04.480
<v Speaker 2>not really that many churches here. There's like two or

760
00:40:04.480 --> 00:40:06.519
<v Speaker 2>three in this there are actually three, but now too.

761
00:40:06.960 --> 00:40:09.480
<v Speaker 2>And there was this Baptist church that we can see

762
00:40:09.480 --> 00:40:12.440
<v Speaker 2>from the window here, and we just one Sunday walked

763
00:40:12.519 --> 00:40:16.280
<v Speaker 2>up and the people there were very warm and welcoming,

764
00:40:16.400 --> 00:40:20.400
<v Speaker 2>and it was a beautiful It was a beautiful time.

765
00:40:20.519 --> 00:40:24.760
<v Speaker 2>You know. I don't just because I'm Orthodox now does

766
00:40:24.920 --> 00:40:28.079
<v Speaker 2>not mean I don't love my Protestant brothers and sisters,

767
00:40:28.119 --> 00:40:32.280
<v Speaker 2>you know. And and without that transitional period, I don't

768
00:40:32.320 --> 00:40:35.039
<v Speaker 2>think I probably would have found Orthodox the way that

769
00:40:35.079 --> 00:40:38.119
<v Speaker 2>I found it, which I think was good. So I

770
00:40:38.760 --> 00:40:42.679
<v Speaker 2>was there for about a year and then got baptized

771
00:40:43.360 --> 00:40:46.920
<v Speaker 2>and hit a wall pretty quickly after that, Like meaning

772
00:40:47.800 --> 00:40:50.320
<v Speaker 2>I just had a lot of questions, not a lot

773
00:40:50.360 --> 00:40:56.079
<v Speaker 2>of discipleship or disciple ling, I guess, or shepherding and

774
00:40:56.599 --> 00:41:01.159
<v Speaker 2>after that, I would share with my husband just the

775
00:41:01.159 --> 00:41:04.960
<v Speaker 2>struggles that I'm like, man, I just feel like my

776
00:41:05.079 --> 00:41:07.320
<v Speaker 2>cup's not fool you know. I know it sounds silly,

777
00:41:07.320 --> 00:41:11.719
<v Speaker 2>but I'm going and through the motions. But something there's

778
00:41:11.800 --> 00:41:14.280
<v Speaker 2>there's more, and he goes. He sends me a YouTube

779
00:41:14.360 --> 00:41:19.519
<v Speaker 2>video of an Orthodox priest talking about something philosophical. But

780
00:41:19.519 --> 00:41:21.159
<v Speaker 2>it was so beautiful and I was like, Oh, this

781
00:41:21.199 --> 00:41:23.360
<v Speaker 2>guy's cool. I really like what he's about. But I

782
00:41:23.360 --> 00:41:28.400
<v Speaker 2>didn't understand. I thought like Orthodox was, you know, I

783
00:41:28.440 --> 00:41:30.079
<v Speaker 2>didn't know it was like Christian you.

784
00:41:30.119 --> 00:41:32.800
<v Speaker 1>Know, so like the weird uncle to Christianity.

785
00:41:33.199 --> 00:41:35.039
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I didn't understand what it was. I was like, okay,

786
00:41:35.119 --> 00:41:38.880
<v Speaker 2>and so so I didn't think about it at all.

787
00:41:38.920 --> 00:41:40.800
<v Speaker 2>And then it wasn't There's like two other things that

788
00:41:40.880 --> 00:41:45.320
<v Speaker 2>happened that that really like, after the third time of

789
00:41:46.400 --> 00:41:48.119
<v Speaker 2>kind of being called to it, I was like, you know,

790
00:41:48.119 --> 00:41:50.280
<v Speaker 2>I'm going to actually just go and check out on

791
00:41:50.400 --> 00:41:54.039
<v Speaker 2>Orthodox church. And so I googled what the nearest English

792
00:41:54.119 --> 00:41:57.199
<v Speaker 2>speaking Orthodox church was to me, and I stepped foot

793
00:41:57.199 --> 00:42:00.679
<v Speaker 2>into to the parish that I go to now and

794
00:42:01.280 --> 00:42:04.639
<v Speaker 2>like a greeter talked to me briefly, was like, oh, hey,

795
00:42:04.639 --> 00:42:06.440
<v Speaker 2>are you visiting, you know, and I said yeah, and

796
00:42:06.480 --> 00:42:08.239
<v Speaker 2>he goes, here's like a little it was like a

797
00:42:08.239 --> 00:42:08.960
<v Speaker 2>little card that.

798
00:42:08.960 --> 00:42:13.159
<v Speaker 1>Just you know, did the aesthetics draw you in partly? No,

799
00:42:13.239 --> 00:42:16.679
<v Speaker 1>there's a lot of people who are into esthetics, fine,

800
00:42:16.840 --> 00:42:18.800
<v Speaker 1>Orthodoxy esthetically appealing.

801
00:42:19.639 --> 00:42:22.440
<v Speaker 2>If we're talking about esthetic, I mean, I would say

802
00:42:22.559 --> 00:42:27.159
<v Speaker 2>the Roman Catholics have the most beautiful architecture, not talking

803
00:42:27.159 --> 00:42:29.840
<v Speaker 2>about icons and all that, but like, I was always

804
00:42:29.960 --> 00:42:35.159
<v Speaker 2>a fan of Carbagio paintings and you know, Rembrandts, like

805
00:42:35.320 --> 00:42:38.320
<v Speaker 2>all the Master style. So I mean, to me, it

806
00:42:38.360 --> 00:42:40.760
<v Speaker 2>was funny. I was talking to Father John Parker about

807
00:42:40.760 --> 00:42:42.639
<v Speaker 2>this the other day. That was like, I never understood

808
00:42:42.760 --> 00:42:46.000
<v Speaker 2>icons obviously until I was introduced to Orthodoxy and I

809
00:42:46.400 --> 00:42:49.320
<v Speaker 2>had seen them. I had seen these depictions of Christ

810
00:42:49.960 --> 00:42:53.119
<v Speaker 2>and I thought, oh, this must be from the fifteen

811
00:42:53.159 --> 00:42:56.039
<v Speaker 2>hundreds before they learned how to draw, like, because everything

812
00:42:56.079 --> 00:42:58.639
<v Speaker 2>was so flat. I didn't understand that there's some symbolism

813
00:42:58.760 --> 00:43:00.840
<v Speaker 2>and meaning behind all that, and just was like, oh, cool,

814
00:43:00.840 --> 00:43:05.719
<v Speaker 2>that's just more ancient. But when I saw the Caravaggio's

815
00:43:05.800 --> 00:43:13.559
<v Speaker 2>painting of the Uh Doubting of Thomas, I saw it

816
00:43:13.559 --> 00:43:18.280
<v Speaker 2>in real life and it hit me. And this was

817
00:43:18.320 --> 00:43:21.400
<v Speaker 2>before I had come back to the church. I just

818
00:43:21.480 --> 00:43:27.320
<v Speaker 2>was like, this really happened, the resurrection, And I'm like,

819
00:43:27.519 --> 00:43:30.360
<v Speaker 2>could you imagine what it would have felt like to

820
00:43:30.400 --> 00:43:35.079
<v Speaker 2>see Christ and even being a disciple and seeing all

821
00:43:35.119 --> 00:43:38.440
<v Speaker 2>the other miracles, you still have doubt to the point

822
00:43:38.480 --> 00:43:42.480
<v Speaker 2>where He's, you know, in his amazingness, is like here,

823
00:43:42.559 --> 00:43:44.920
<v Speaker 2>let me just prove it to you again. And it

824
00:43:45.039 --> 00:43:46.920
<v Speaker 2>just I just remember seeing that painting and it just

825
00:43:47.039 --> 00:43:51.119
<v Speaker 2>was like, Oh, if this is real, like we should

826
00:43:51.199 --> 00:43:54.480
<v Speaker 2>be we should be scared, you know. And so I

827
00:43:54.519 --> 00:43:57.639
<v Speaker 2>was like, oh, icons make so much sense to me,

828
00:43:58.360 --> 00:44:01.000
<v Speaker 2>Like this is you don't need to know how to

829
00:44:01.039 --> 00:44:04.440
<v Speaker 2>read to learn about Jesus. You know.

830
00:44:04.599 --> 00:44:09.559
<v Speaker 1>Also your so cool. Your background is to you drew

831
00:44:09.719 --> 00:44:11.880
<v Speaker 1>from the time you were young. You're always drawing and

832
00:44:11.920 --> 00:44:16.639
<v Speaker 1>then you just on people. Yeah, and there's something about that,

833
00:44:16.679 --> 00:44:20.000
<v Speaker 1>and you even described it like it's not just you know,

834
00:44:20.119 --> 00:44:22.280
<v Speaker 1>a job or whatever. You're also having this sort of

835
00:44:22.400 --> 00:44:25.039
<v Speaker 1>unique experience with the person, getting to know the person.

836
00:44:25.079 --> 00:44:28.719
<v Speaker 1>So it's almost like for you from your earliest days,

837
00:44:28.880 --> 00:44:33.920
<v Speaker 1>like art and imagery and iconography was also personalized, and

838
00:44:33.920 --> 00:44:38.719
<v Speaker 1>the whole point of the icons is to personalize the saints.

839
00:44:39.239 --> 00:44:41.920
<v Speaker 1>Thus to also personalize God. So it's not just an abstraction,

840
00:44:42.039 --> 00:44:45.360
<v Speaker 1>it's not art. It's a window to heaven to meet

841
00:44:45.440 --> 00:44:47.960
<v Speaker 1>people and to know people. And I'm just.

842
00:44:47.880 --> 00:44:51.000
<v Speaker 2>Saying, but there's also like historic storytelling that Then that's

843
00:44:51.039 --> 00:44:53.880
<v Speaker 2>the part where it's like I'm learning about something and

844
00:44:54.039 --> 00:44:56.679
<v Speaker 2>understanding and experience because I'm seeing an image and I

845
00:44:56.719 --> 00:45:01.920
<v Speaker 2>don't need to be, you know, a theologian. I don't

846
00:45:01.920 --> 00:45:04.639
<v Speaker 2>need to have a high IQ. I can just look

847
00:45:04.679 --> 00:45:06.599
<v Speaker 2>at this and understand. And I thought that was so

848
00:45:06.840 --> 00:45:10.440
<v Speaker 2>cool and so moving. So when I did, you know,

849
00:45:11.039 --> 00:45:14.599
<v Speaker 2>see icons after that, it's like, oh, it's it's not

850
00:45:14.679 --> 00:45:16.800
<v Speaker 2>a hard step for me to understand why we would

851
00:45:16.840 --> 00:45:19.920
<v Speaker 2>want to kiss an icon, you know, it's it'd be

852
00:45:19.960 --> 00:45:20.760
<v Speaker 2>weird if you don't.

853
00:45:20.960 --> 00:45:23.639
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, right, so well, and so many other things that

854
00:45:23.760 --> 00:45:26.920
<v Speaker 1>in our lives we honor and revere in the exact

855
00:45:26.960 --> 00:45:28.840
<v Speaker 1>same way. And then I think, through a lot of

856
00:45:28.840 --> 00:45:31.679
<v Speaker 1>the sort of Protestant Islamic ideology, we tend to think

857
00:45:32.280 --> 00:45:34.679
<v Speaker 1>that that would be a violation of divinity or something,

858
00:45:34.719 --> 00:45:37.760
<v Speaker 1>But why if we do that for the lesser things,

859
00:45:37.800 --> 00:45:39.920
<v Speaker 1>like obviously, we would do it that much more for

860
00:45:40.079 --> 00:45:43.639
<v Speaker 1>the higher things. So another thing about this need about icons.

861
00:45:43.639 --> 00:45:45.639
<v Speaker 1>That goes back to what I was saying about the

862
00:45:45.679 --> 00:45:49.039
<v Speaker 1>past and about history is a lot of like the

863
00:45:49.119 --> 00:45:52.159
<v Speaker 1>tech today, what is geared towards is getting you focused

864
00:45:52.159 --> 00:45:57.719
<v Speaker 1>on only caring about immediacy and fulfillment in the immediate.

865
00:45:58.760 --> 00:46:01.000
<v Speaker 1>But an icon is like the right version of that,

866
00:46:01.119 --> 00:46:06.239
<v Speaker 1>because even though they're they're two D, they aren't just

867
00:46:06.559 --> 00:46:09.800
<v Speaker 1>an eternal now because within the nows that they show,

868
00:46:10.440 --> 00:46:12.760
<v Speaker 1>there's almost always a background in a history and a

869
00:46:12.840 --> 00:46:16.119
<v Speaker 1>future to the story of the person in the icon.

870
00:46:16.320 --> 00:46:18.639
<v Speaker 1>For example, like if you see icons of the life

871
00:46:18.679 --> 00:46:20.719
<v Speaker 1>of Christ, like where they have like a big one

872
00:46:20.760 --> 00:46:23.639
<v Speaker 1>that has all the stories in one it's one image,

873
00:46:23.679 --> 00:46:26.960
<v Speaker 1>but it's telling you this timeless story, but it also

874
00:46:27.000 --> 00:46:30.159
<v Speaker 1>projects into the future. So there's like an aschotological reality

875
00:46:30.159 --> 00:46:32.599
<v Speaker 1>to the icons as well. And I can't really I mean,

876
00:46:32.639 --> 00:46:34.880
<v Speaker 1>I know a lot of art can sort of do

877
00:46:35.000 --> 00:46:36.119
<v Speaker 1>similar types of things.

878
00:46:36.800 --> 00:46:37.119
<v Speaker 2>I don't know.

879
00:46:37.199 --> 00:46:39.159
<v Speaker 1>I'm thinking like Lord of the Rings is you know,

880
00:46:39.199 --> 00:46:42.880
<v Speaker 1>according to Tolkien, like his historical fiction, but it doesn't

881
00:46:42.920 --> 00:46:44.800
<v Speaker 1>really tell you about I mean, it tells you moral

882
00:46:44.840 --> 00:46:47.199
<v Speaker 1>things about life and meaning, but it doesn't tell you

883
00:46:48.280 --> 00:46:52.239
<v Speaker 1>the future. It doesn't tell you all of reality in

884
00:46:52.320 --> 00:46:55.199
<v Speaker 1>a single image and the cosmic scope of icons I

885
00:46:55.199 --> 00:46:56.840
<v Speaker 1>think is unique in that way. I just thought it

886
00:46:56.880 --> 00:47:00.920
<v Speaker 1>was probably you were probably already providentially being prepared for

887
00:47:01.079 --> 00:47:04.599
<v Speaker 1>worth through what you did and what you were into.

888
00:47:05.199 --> 00:47:06.880
<v Speaker 1>And I talked to a lot of people from the

889
00:47:06.920 --> 00:47:09.480
<v Speaker 1>world of the arts and you know, the domain of

890
00:47:09.559 --> 00:47:12.400
<v Speaker 1>the creative who would become Orthodox, and there's a lot

891
00:47:12.400 --> 00:47:15.039
<v Speaker 1>of similar patterns with those people that they were already

892
00:47:15.119 --> 00:47:18.400
<v Speaker 1>kind of prepared for that, you know, through So how.

893
00:47:18.320 --> 00:47:21.039
<v Speaker 2>Would you explain what an icon is to someone who

894
00:47:21.079 --> 00:47:23.480
<v Speaker 2>doesn't know what that is? I only say that just

895
00:47:23.519 --> 00:47:25.880
<v Speaker 2>because I'm sure by the time this goes up, like

896
00:47:26.480 --> 00:47:29.239
<v Speaker 2>a lot of people follow me don't know like what

897
00:47:29.320 --> 00:47:30.039
<v Speaker 2>we're talking about.

898
00:47:30.199 --> 00:47:34.639
<v Speaker 1>So probably everybody knows about religious art work. And for

899
00:47:34.719 --> 00:47:38.320
<v Speaker 1>the Orthodox Church, icons are not just religious art. They're

900
00:47:38.360 --> 00:47:41.159
<v Speaker 1>much more than that. So for us, there's a very

901
00:47:41.199 --> 00:47:44.679
<v Speaker 1>specific what we call canonical or sort of limitations on

902
00:47:44.880 --> 00:47:48.079
<v Speaker 1>how you do the art or the writing of an

903
00:47:48.239 --> 00:47:50.000
<v Speaker 1>icon or the painting of an icon, and that has

904
00:47:50.039 --> 00:47:55.679
<v Speaker 1>to do with expressing the theology of this world and

905
00:47:55.760 --> 00:48:00.519
<v Speaker 1>the next world or heather in a very limited so

906
00:48:00.559 --> 00:48:06.000
<v Speaker 1>you have to use certain patterns of symbolic color, certain

907
00:48:06.039 --> 00:48:08.559
<v Speaker 1>ways of presenting people's lives and stories so that you

908
00:48:08.639 --> 00:48:14.280
<v Speaker 1>accurately capture not something abstract or ahistorical, it has to

909
00:48:14.800 --> 00:48:17.800
<v Speaker 1>actually capture the history. So, for example, Saint Moses a

910
00:48:17.840 --> 00:48:22.800
<v Speaker 1>black he'll never be like in the icon like a

911
00:48:22.840 --> 00:48:25.079
<v Speaker 1>gray dude. He'll always be the black dude that he was,

912
00:48:25.119 --> 00:48:27.199
<v Speaker 1>because that's who he was and he will be for

913
00:48:27.239 --> 00:48:30.920
<v Speaker 1>all eternities. So icons have to express the actual historical

914
00:48:30.960 --> 00:48:35.320
<v Speaker 1>reality as well as also stepping into and presenting what

915
00:48:35.360 --> 00:48:38.360
<v Speaker 1>we call windows to heaven. So an icon is basically

916
00:48:38.400 --> 00:48:42.000
<v Speaker 1>a window into the next dimension because when we go

917
00:48:42.079 --> 00:48:45.800
<v Speaker 1>to the liturgy, we actually believe that it is literally

918
00:48:45.840 --> 00:48:50.400
<v Speaker 1>heaven on earth. It's not a symbol necessarily, but it's

919
00:48:50.679 --> 00:48:53.679
<v Speaker 1>symbols as reality. In the Old Testament, it was symbols

920
00:48:53.679 --> 00:48:56.320
<v Speaker 1>of heaven and what was to come. We think when

921
00:48:56.360 --> 00:48:59.840
<v Speaker 1>Christ came, he brought all that reality at the first event,

922
00:49:00.360 --> 00:49:03.400
<v Speaker 1>whereas Protestants, for example, they typically will postpone a lot

923
00:49:03.440 --> 00:49:05.840
<v Speaker 1>of that to the second event. So an icon is

924
00:49:05.840 --> 00:49:09.000
<v Speaker 1>a window went to heaven and it's the end times.

925
00:49:09.039 --> 00:49:11.679
<v Speaker 1>It's the escton the end of the world right now

926
00:49:12.239 --> 00:49:14.880
<v Speaker 1>in reality at this time, so it kind of steps

927
00:49:14.920 --> 00:49:17.639
<v Speaker 1>out of time and space, and that's why it has

928
00:49:17.679 --> 00:49:20.519
<v Speaker 1>those unique features that you mentioned in terms of dimensionality

929
00:49:20.599 --> 00:49:23.280
<v Speaker 1>and you know, telling the past and the future in

930
00:49:23.320 --> 00:49:26.239
<v Speaker 1>one single image, and not all art does that, and

931
00:49:26.280 --> 00:49:29.079
<v Speaker 1>that's why for us it's much more than just art.

932
00:49:29.159 --> 00:49:30.400
<v Speaker 1>It's also a holy thing.

933
00:49:30.599 --> 00:49:31.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

934
00:49:32.400 --> 00:49:33.719
<v Speaker 1>Cool, So.

935
00:49:37.119 --> 00:49:40.079
<v Speaker 2>You're so poetic sometimes I don't think you realize it.

936
00:49:40.920 --> 00:49:41.519
<v Speaker 2>I appreciate you.

937
00:49:41.719 --> 00:49:44.199
<v Speaker 1>I appreciate that this was interesting. I do want to

938
00:49:44.239 --> 00:49:49.079
<v Speaker 1>talk more about other things that you found theologically relevant

939
00:49:49.119 --> 00:49:50.800
<v Speaker 1>to your life. You talked about the book of Job

940
00:49:50.840 --> 00:49:52.800
<v Speaker 1>in the past, which is nobody ever talks about the

941
00:49:52.800 --> 00:49:55.639
<v Speaker 1>pot job. This is very overlooked. I thought that was

942
00:49:55.679 --> 00:49:57.320
<v Speaker 1>interesting that you brought that up before we do though,

943
00:49:58.559 --> 00:50:01.880
<v Speaker 1>now that we're talking about imagery iconography and we talked

944
00:50:01.880 --> 00:50:06.480
<v Speaker 1>about you know, phones and tech and art and all that,

945
00:50:07.400 --> 00:50:09.960
<v Speaker 1>you did make some interesting comments that you're very much

946
00:50:10.000 --> 00:50:13.199
<v Speaker 1>pro human creativity and you've got songs. Right, I am

947
00:50:13.239 --> 00:50:17.159
<v Speaker 1>a machine, You've got songs that I mean, the way

948
00:50:17.199 --> 00:50:20.960
<v Speaker 1>I was interpreting it was like sort of dystopian warning

949
00:50:21.039 --> 00:50:25.000
<v Speaker 1>almost about where we're going, and so I wanted to

950
00:50:25.000 --> 00:50:28.480
<v Speaker 1>touch on that because you know, orthodoxy, we're not gonna

951
00:50:28.519 --> 00:50:31.880
<v Speaker 1>have we shouldn't have like an AI icon in the church,

952
00:50:32.000 --> 00:50:33.599
<v Speaker 1>right we would have it has to be painted with

953
00:50:33.599 --> 00:50:37.480
<v Speaker 1>a human hand. And I wanted to know, do you

954
00:50:37.599 --> 00:50:41.960
<v Speaker 1>feel that not just because of twenty twenty, but is

955
00:50:42.000 --> 00:50:45.639
<v Speaker 1>there something seeping through the art that you do that's

956
00:50:45.679 --> 00:50:47.239
<v Speaker 1>warning of technocracy?

957
00:50:49.519 --> 00:50:52.800
<v Speaker 2>I don't know. I mean, I'm my strong point. I

958
00:50:52.840 --> 00:50:57.280
<v Speaker 2>think in advice giving, which I don't like to do

959
00:50:57.320 --> 00:51:00.440
<v Speaker 2>at all, is just like trying my best to lead

960
00:51:00.480 --> 00:51:02.480
<v Speaker 2>by example in whatever way I can, you know. And

961
00:51:02.519 --> 00:51:09.960
<v Speaker 2>I think that if somebody that you know has odds

962
00:51:10.000 --> 00:51:12.719
<v Speaker 2>against them or you know, it's like you can still try,

963
00:51:12.800 --> 00:51:14.800
<v Speaker 2>and you can still work hard, and you can still

964
00:51:15.199 --> 00:51:17.719
<v Speaker 2>figure out how to do something. And I think that,

965
00:51:17.880 --> 00:51:21.559
<v Speaker 2>like I'm in no position to talk about necessarily like

966
00:51:21.639 --> 00:51:23.880
<v Speaker 2>AI or the I don't know much about it, to

967
00:51:23.880 --> 00:51:27.480
<v Speaker 2>be honest, Like, I just know that I appreciate the

968
00:51:27.559 --> 00:51:31.000
<v Speaker 2>human fingerprint, you know. I mean, that's why I love

969
00:51:31.039 --> 00:51:35.840
<v Speaker 2>old Victorian homes. You know, there's these things are storytelling

970
00:51:35.920 --> 00:51:39.679
<v Speaker 2>and they're made by a human, you know, like all

971
00:51:39.719 --> 00:51:40.480
<v Speaker 2>aspects of them.

972
00:51:40.679 --> 00:51:42.199
<v Speaker 1>Well, this was in the context I think of you

973
00:51:42.280 --> 00:51:46.280
<v Speaker 1>discussing your house, and that was everything what you wanted

974
00:51:46.320 --> 00:51:51.079
<v Speaker 1>to have, that human element in contrast to everything nowadays

975
00:51:51.119 --> 00:51:52.880
<v Speaker 1>sort of being replaced with I.

976
00:51:52.800 --> 00:51:54.320
<v Speaker 2>Mean I try to have it in everything, you know.

977
00:51:54.480 --> 00:51:57.639
<v Speaker 2>I mean, like I homeschool my son, and it's like

978
00:51:57.679 --> 00:52:05.119
<v Speaker 2>I look at you know, it's I'm very passionate about homeschooling,

979
00:52:05.159 --> 00:52:08.960
<v Speaker 2>by the way. But you know, I have friends that

980
00:52:10.239 --> 00:52:13.480
<v Speaker 2>Leah Farr had these two little friends that had some

981
00:52:13.519 --> 00:52:16.360
<v Speaker 2>circumstances and then they had to be put not had

982
00:52:16.400 --> 00:52:17.519
<v Speaker 2>to but they're now in.

983
00:52:17.440 --> 00:52:19.199
<v Speaker 1>Public school, in public school.

984
00:52:19.719 --> 00:52:21.519
<v Speaker 2>No, they're in public school. And you know, and so

985
00:52:22.079 --> 00:52:25.159
<v Speaker 2>my friend who you know, she's my trainer, and so

986
00:52:25.960 --> 00:52:27.239
<v Speaker 2>when I when I see I see her on a

987
00:52:27.239 --> 00:52:29.039
<v Speaker 2>pretty regular basis that IO check in like how are

988
00:52:29.079 --> 00:52:32.559
<v Speaker 2>the kids and stuff. And there's some there's some complaints,

989
00:52:32.800 --> 00:52:37.199
<v Speaker 2>you know, of the the public school system, like for example,

990
00:52:37.280 --> 00:52:39.480
<v Speaker 2>these are things I don't I don't know because my

991
00:52:39.559 --> 00:52:42.559
<v Speaker 2>kid doesn't go there anymore. And when I went to school,

992
00:52:42.679 --> 00:52:45.320
<v Speaker 2>it was a long time ago. So things have changed

993
00:52:45.320 --> 00:52:48.199
<v Speaker 2>a lot, and they've escalated quite quickly, especially with technology.

994
00:52:48.199 --> 00:52:51.000
<v Speaker 2>And she told me that kids in elementary school now

995
00:52:51.039 --> 00:52:55.519
<v Speaker 2>are it's mandatory to have these chromebooks. It's like a

996
00:52:55.599 --> 00:52:59.519
<v Speaker 2>laptop and it comes with AI right in it. And

997
00:52:59.599 --> 00:53:01.440
<v Speaker 2>so I was, you know, I had. I had read

998
00:53:01.480 --> 00:53:05.039
<v Speaker 2>some articles and there are some actual studies that they

999
00:53:05.079 --> 00:53:09.119
<v Speaker 2>you know, they've been tracking our progress since I think

1000
00:53:09.119 --> 00:53:13.559
<v Speaker 2>the sixties and during every introduction of technology, whether it's

1001
00:53:13.599 --> 00:53:17.360
<v Speaker 2>the calculator to like I remember when computers were invented

1002
00:53:17.480 --> 00:53:19.800
<v Speaker 2>or whatever, and they and we had got Oregon Trail

1003
00:53:19.920 --> 00:53:21.800
<v Speaker 2>and it was like all of us gathered around one

1004
00:53:21.800 --> 00:53:24.400
<v Speaker 2>computer and watched like the black screen with the green letters,

1005
00:53:24.400 --> 00:53:29.639
<v Speaker 2>you know, and and I thought, oh, we must be improving,

1006
00:53:29.800 --> 00:53:33.239
<v Speaker 2>and it looked and every landmark proves that are our

1007
00:53:33.440 --> 00:53:38.360
<v Speaker 2>our children's IQ's are dropping. So this last generation, it's

1008
00:53:38.400 --> 00:53:42.119
<v Speaker 2>getting so bad. You know. It's like, so do I

1009
00:53:42.159 --> 00:53:44.719
<v Speaker 2>have opinions of technology? I think that there are so

1010
00:53:44.840 --> 00:53:49.119
<v Speaker 2>many beautiful things that happened with you know, I love

1011
00:53:49.159 --> 00:53:53.199
<v Speaker 2>the fact that we can ride on airplanes and calculators,

1012
00:53:53.199 --> 00:53:56.880
<v Speaker 2>cell phones or you know, all that stuff. But as

1013
00:53:56.920 --> 00:54:01.159
<v Speaker 2>a homeschool mom like I I, there's just none of

1014
00:54:01.159 --> 00:54:03.159
<v Speaker 2>that here. We just I just think there's such an

1015
00:54:03.159 --> 00:54:06.840
<v Speaker 2>importance in you know, leaf are learning things that are

1016
00:54:07.039 --> 00:54:10.800
<v Speaker 2>almost also not even relevant anymore, Like like the other

1017
00:54:10.880 --> 00:54:14.360
<v Speaker 2>day when we were or he just graduated first grade,

1018
00:54:14.440 --> 00:54:18.719
<v Speaker 2>so he's learning like how to tell time and I

1019
00:54:18.800 --> 00:54:22.159
<v Speaker 2>was thinking about how like nobody wears like clocks. There's

1020
00:54:22.159 --> 00:54:25.639
<v Speaker 2>no clocks are irrelevant. We have wind up grandfather clocks here,

1021
00:54:25.679 --> 00:54:28.079
<v Speaker 2>you know. But I was like, it's so important for

1022
00:54:28.119 --> 00:54:30.960
<v Speaker 2>Lefford to learn this because like he's learning how to

1023
00:54:31.000 --> 00:54:33.840
<v Speaker 2>count by fives, he can, you know, like it's not

1024
00:54:34.039 --> 00:54:37.239
<v Speaker 2>just something that's gonna you know, like he's learning what

1025
00:54:37.239 --> 00:54:39.760
<v Speaker 2>a penny is. We're not even printing pennies anymore. But

1026
00:54:40.199 --> 00:54:42.880
<v Speaker 2>it's helping his math. You know, he's learning cursive even

1027
00:54:42.880 --> 00:54:45.480
<v Speaker 2>though they're not teaching that in public school anymore. But

1028
00:54:45.679 --> 00:54:50.840
<v Speaker 2>I remember when I first started learning how to draw

1029
00:54:51.079 --> 00:54:54.440
<v Speaker 2>like filigree, like like Baroque architectural filigree, which is one

1030
00:54:54.480 --> 00:54:57.480
<v Speaker 2>of my favorite things to draw. I mean that that

1031
00:54:57.719 --> 00:55:03.519
<v Speaker 2>directly correlates to penmanship, you know. So anyways, will I

1032
00:55:03.559 --> 00:55:07.519
<v Speaker 2>ever use AI? Probably, I mean I probably should, you know,

1033
00:55:07.760 --> 00:55:11.880
<v Speaker 2>And some business aspects I'm sure, you know, for efficiency

1034
00:55:11.960 --> 00:55:14.039
<v Speaker 2>or whatever. But I think when it comes to art,

1035
00:55:14.280 --> 00:55:16.880
<v Speaker 2>I'm always going to be the analog lady, you know.

1036
00:55:16.960 --> 00:55:19.679
<v Speaker 2>And when it comes to my music, you know, we

1037
00:55:19.840 --> 00:55:24.039
<v Speaker 2>I love synthesizers. That's a technology. I learned how to

1038
00:55:24.079 --> 00:55:27.280
<v Speaker 2>play music classically. I was classically training since I was

1039
00:55:27.280 --> 00:55:29.559
<v Speaker 2>five years old, so I love all the you know,

1040
00:55:29.719 --> 00:55:34.320
<v Speaker 2>the greats and stuff, but I still we play the instruments,

1041
00:55:34.320 --> 00:55:37.800
<v Speaker 2>you know, and in our recordings, we you know, we

1042
00:55:37.840 --> 00:55:40.960
<v Speaker 2>can program certain things, but for the most part, all

1043
00:55:41.000 --> 00:55:44.320
<v Speaker 2>of our sound design is created. So it's it's cool.

1044
00:55:44.320 --> 00:55:47.880
<v Speaker 2>I think. I think nerds can tell the difference. I'm

1045
00:55:47.920 --> 00:55:50.800
<v Speaker 2>a nerd, so you know, it's it's cool. But I

1046
00:55:50.840 --> 00:55:54.199
<v Speaker 2>also don't knock like people who make computer music too,

1047
00:55:54.280 --> 00:55:57.079
<v Speaker 2>like that's cool, you know, like there's probably a place

1048
00:55:57.119 --> 00:56:00.760
<v Speaker 2>for it, you know, it's not. But yeah, I don't

1049
00:56:00.760 --> 00:56:02.159
<v Speaker 2>think I'm ever going to be a fan of like

1050
00:56:02.239 --> 00:56:05.840
<v Speaker 2>an AI artist that sounds Yeah, I don't know, I can't.

1051
00:56:06.199 --> 00:56:07.400
<v Speaker 2>Something feels weird about that.

1052
00:56:07.480 --> 00:56:10.400
<v Speaker 1>Well, you know, and you've been on various you know,

1053
00:56:10.679 --> 00:56:15.559
<v Speaker 1>synth wave type tracks. You did the Gunship song, and

1054
00:56:15.639 --> 00:56:19.320
<v Speaker 1>you do that in your own work, and I've always

1055
00:56:19.320 --> 00:56:21.800
<v Speaker 1>thought there was something kind of implicit in synth wave

1056
00:56:21.840 --> 00:56:24.239
<v Speaker 1>and then in vapor wave as well. That's a critique

1057
00:56:24.320 --> 00:56:27.599
<v Speaker 1>of where we're going, because it's like the art is

1058
00:56:27.639 --> 00:56:32.039
<v Speaker 1>getting more and more corporate but also soulless. And then

1059
00:56:32.079 --> 00:56:34.480
<v Speaker 1>that then, like vapor wave, for example, was a critique

1060
00:56:34.480 --> 00:56:37.800
<v Speaker 1>of that soullessness by kind of giving it some soul

1061
00:56:37.960 --> 00:56:42.800
<v Speaker 1>and giving it a new form of life, but it's

1062
00:56:42.840 --> 00:56:46.599
<v Speaker 1>also critiquing the lack of life that that whole era has.

1063
00:56:46.719 --> 00:56:49.320
<v Speaker 1>And then within like synth wave stuff, there's always been

1064
00:56:49.360 --> 00:56:52.960
<v Speaker 1>a kind of a dystopian vibe to it, and gunship

1065
00:56:53.000 --> 00:56:56.000
<v Speaker 1>stuff is very dystopian. So that's why I was asking about, Like,

1066
00:56:56.920 --> 00:56:59.480
<v Speaker 1>I know that it's not a question of could we

1067
00:56:59.559 --> 00:57:01.159
<v Speaker 1>use a little little bit of AI here there, do

1068
00:57:01.199 --> 00:57:05.480
<v Speaker 1>we do synthesizers or whatever, But there's something creeping, a

1069
00:57:05.519 --> 00:57:10.079
<v Speaker 1>creeping terror that has to do with the phones. I

1070
00:57:10.119 --> 00:57:12.760
<v Speaker 1>think the phone, Like people are going insane from phones.

1071
00:57:13.280 --> 00:57:16.519
<v Speaker 1>Yeah know that's kind of cliche because boomers fuss about phones,

1072
00:57:16.519 --> 00:57:18.440
<v Speaker 1>But I'm just saying, like I'm actually noticing more and

1073
00:57:18.440 --> 00:57:20.880
<v Speaker 1>more lately, I think people are actually like going insane

1074
00:57:20.960 --> 00:57:21.719
<v Speaker 1>from their phones.

1075
00:57:23.519 --> 00:57:24.119
<v Speaker 2>Damage to that.

1076
00:57:24.960 --> 00:57:28.199
<v Speaker 1>Is there an anti dystopian dystopian element to some of

1077
00:57:28.239 --> 00:57:31.000
<v Speaker 1>your tracks, like or is I Am a Machine? For example?

1078
00:57:31.440 --> 00:57:33.800
<v Speaker 1>Is that just autobiographical about like something?

1079
00:57:33.840 --> 00:57:35.880
<v Speaker 2>No, I mean I'm a Machine is about what we're

1080
00:57:35.880 --> 00:57:38.559
<v Speaker 2>talking about now, you know, And I mean I think, like,

1081
00:57:38.599 --> 00:57:41.000
<v Speaker 2>how do we put this the how do we infuse

1082
00:57:41.039 --> 00:57:48.239
<v Speaker 2>soul into the robots somehow, you know, But yeah, I don't.

1083
00:57:48.280 --> 00:57:48.719
<v Speaker 2>I don't know.

1084
00:57:49.679 --> 00:57:51.760
<v Speaker 1>You have to know this because you're homeschooling, so you

1085
00:57:51.960 --> 00:57:53.519
<v Speaker 1>sense this, like yeah, for sure, and.

1086
00:57:53.519 --> 00:57:55.480
<v Speaker 2>Also too, but there's there's a surrender, and I think

1087
00:57:55.519 --> 00:57:58.119
<v Speaker 2>that has to do with my faith, is that, like

1088
00:57:58.599 --> 00:57:59.960
<v Speaker 2>you know, we can look around and see that the

1089
00:58:00.079 --> 00:58:04.280
<v Speaker 2>world is falling apart and that you know, evil seems

1090
00:58:04.320 --> 00:58:07.679
<v Speaker 2>to be winning in some ways and the pendulum swinging

1091
00:58:07.679 --> 00:58:10.760
<v Speaker 2>maybe in others in in other ways, but like at

1092
00:58:10.800 --> 00:58:12.559
<v Speaker 2>the end of the day, like we knew all this

1093
00:58:12.760 --> 00:58:15.000
<v Speaker 2>was coming, like it says it in the Bible, like

1094
00:58:15.119 --> 00:58:17.400
<v Speaker 2>you know, so I think we can find a comfort

1095
00:58:17.440 --> 00:58:20.199
<v Speaker 2>that like in the sense that like I don't know,

1096
00:58:20.280 --> 00:58:23.559
<v Speaker 2>we don't nobody knows that the end day, but but

1097
00:58:24.599 --> 00:58:27.360
<v Speaker 2>maybe we are in the end times. But like it

1098
00:58:27.480 --> 00:58:30.800
<v Speaker 2>just means we're probably one step closer to seeing his face,

1099
00:58:30.800 --> 00:58:33.719
<v Speaker 2>which I think is pretty cool. So you know, for us,

1100
00:58:33.760 --> 00:58:36.599
<v Speaker 2>it's like what do we do for now? Like I mean,

1101
00:58:36.760 --> 00:58:38.440
<v Speaker 2>I'm I am a little bit of a you know,

1102
00:58:38.440 --> 00:58:40.840
<v Speaker 2>one of those weirdo preppers. I like to have my

1103
00:58:40.880 --> 00:58:44.199
<v Speaker 2>own water source and like you know, have land, Like

1104
00:58:44.199 --> 00:58:47.679
<v Speaker 2>I prioritize land to grow food eventually, you know, but

1105
00:58:47.760 --> 00:58:51.000
<v Speaker 2>it's not whereas before I was, like I had fancy cars.

1106
00:58:51.079 --> 00:58:53.199
<v Speaker 2>I'm like, I could care less about any of that. Now,

1107
00:58:53.280 --> 00:58:56.280
<v Speaker 2>you know, we live like, you know, we got a

1108
00:58:56.320 --> 00:58:59.599
<v Speaker 2>house that's on you know, a small amount of land,

1109
00:58:59.599 --> 00:59:03.599
<v Speaker 2>but enough to do something with in case if and

1110
00:59:03.679 --> 00:59:06.159
<v Speaker 2>when the apocalypse happens, you know, we might we might

1111
00:59:06.199 --> 00:59:08.760
<v Speaker 2>buy a little bit of time, you know, but you

1112
00:59:08.800 --> 00:59:11.400
<v Speaker 2>can also drive yourself crazy doing that too, you know.

1113
00:59:11.559 --> 00:59:13.239
<v Speaker 2>But I don't know. But yeah, as far as like

1114
00:59:13.280 --> 00:59:15.000
<v Speaker 2>AI and something, I just kind of stay away from

1115
00:59:15.039 --> 00:59:17.320
<v Speaker 2>a lot of it, to be honest. I mean, I'm

1116
00:59:17.320 --> 00:59:19.639
<v Speaker 2>not I'm I'm but I'm not terrified yet.

1117
00:59:21.360 --> 00:59:23.079
<v Speaker 1>I don't even know if it's AI. I'm just more

1118
00:59:23.119 --> 00:59:25.199
<v Speaker 1>concerned with, like I don't.

1119
00:59:25.039 --> 00:59:27.000
<v Speaker 2>Know, technology and no, no, no, not.

1120
00:59:26.960 --> 00:59:30.519
<v Speaker 1>Even if it's something to do with like I'm gonna

1121
00:59:30.559 --> 00:59:34.760
<v Speaker 1>sound full skitzo here, but like the signals and the phones,

1122
00:59:35.079 --> 00:59:38.440
<v Speaker 1>is something that is going on that's just making yeah insane.

1123
00:59:38.519 --> 00:59:40.920
<v Speaker 2>Because we have ring the bell about five g up forever.

1124
00:59:41.079 --> 00:59:43.679
<v Speaker 2>Now they're like, I mean it's killing the plants around them.

1125
00:59:43.679 --> 00:59:45.480
<v Speaker 2>I mean, it's it's you can see, you know, did

1126
00:59:45.480 --> 00:59:47.519
<v Speaker 2>you see the video of the guy with like the

1127
00:59:47.519 --> 00:59:52.840
<v Speaker 2>the neon light bulb. That's I mean, that can'tnot affect you,

1128
00:59:52.840 --> 00:59:55.559
<v Speaker 2>you know. But I also think our bodies are so

1129
00:59:55.719 --> 00:59:59.400
<v Speaker 2>magically and perfectly created. I don't think their adaptive to everything.

1130
00:59:59.400 --> 01:00:01.599
<v Speaker 2>That's why we have answer. But like, but I think

1131
01:00:01.639 --> 01:00:05.119
<v Speaker 2>that there it's constantly fighting for you, you know.

1132
01:00:05.239 --> 01:00:07.360
<v Speaker 1>So, so you would say you're not pro cancer if

1133
01:00:07.360 --> 01:00:09.920
<v Speaker 1>you run for office? Would that be on the platform?

1134
01:00:09.960 --> 01:00:16.320
<v Speaker 1>Could we get that on record? Now? You know, all

1135
01:00:16.360 --> 01:00:18.480
<v Speaker 1>I've been doing is sitting here thinking of dad jokes

1136
01:00:18.480 --> 01:00:21.960
<v Speaker 1>the entire time. That's all I thought about, because that's

1137
01:00:21.960 --> 01:00:24.320
<v Speaker 1>the vibe. That's the vibe that it went into. So

1138
01:00:24.400 --> 01:00:26.400
<v Speaker 1>and you were like you were talking about telling time.

1139
01:00:26.440 --> 01:00:28.559
<v Speaker 1>I was going to say, telling time? What what would

1140
01:00:28.599 --> 01:00:29.679
<v Speaker 1>you tell time? If you could tell?

1141
01:00:29.840 --> 01:00:32.800
<v Speaker 2>Dude? Okay, So I got my son this this this phone.

1142
01:00:32.880 --> 01:00:34.719
<v Speaker 2>It's a landline because I'm trying to give him the

1143
01:00:34.760 --> 01:00:38.000
<v Speaker 2>gift of the nineties or whatever, and so it's it's

1144
01:00:38.000 --> 01:00:39.960
<v Speaker 2>like a landline that he can only call his friends

1145
01:00:39.960 --> 01:00:42.599
<v Speaker 2>and numbers that I've approved or whatever. And so we

1146
01:00:42.599 --> 01:00:45.199
<v Speaker 2>were trying to explain to him, like the is your

1147
01:00:45.400 --> 01:00:48.639
<v Speaker 2>refrigerator running joke? So a prank call you know, and

1148
01:00:48.679 --> 01:00:51.199
<v Speaker 2>he and I couldn't figure out a way to explain that,

1149
01:00:51.280 --> 01:00:54.559
<v Speaker 2>like it's not running, but it's you know, so now

1150
01:00:54.679 --> 01:00:56.880
<v Speaker 2>you like, he'll prank somebody and then explain it.

1151
01:00:57.199 --> 01:01:01.519
<v Speaker 1>He explains that that's nice. You got to introduce them

1152
01:01:01.559 --> 01:01:08.400
<v Speaker 1>to the jerky boys and then you know, Frank, So

1153
01:01:10.280 --> 01:01:14.199
<v Speaker 1>we talked about, you know, periods when you were really

1154
01:01:15.400 --> 01:01:19.320
<v Speaker 1>facing up to the mortality. You've read books about death,

1155
01:01:19.760 --> 01:01:20.440
<v Speaker 1>coping with them.

1156
01:01:20.559 --> 01:01:24.159
<v Speaker 2>I've always been surrounded by the subject. When I used

1157
01:01:24.159 --> 01:01:27.880
<v Speaker 2>to tattoo, I tattooed portraits. So most people don't get

1158
01:01:27.880 --> 01:01:31.320
<v Speaker 2>portraits because they're bored. It's usually people that mean a

1159
01:01:31.320 --> 01:01:33.719
<v Speaker 2>lot to them, whether it's loved when they've lost or

1160
01:01:34.519 --> 01:01:37.559
<v Speaker 2>you know, a musician, whatever it is, you know, a

1161
01:01:37.599 --> 01:01:42.400
<v Speaker 2>hero in their life. So towards the end of my career,

1162
01:01:42.519 --> 01:01:45.320
<v Speaker 2>I mean the last the last decade, I would say

1163
01:01:45.679 --> 01:01:51.599
<v Speaker 2>I dedicated to just tattooing people with the hardest stories.

1164
01:01:51.840 --> 01:01:55.000
<v Speaker 2>So I you know, I stopped tattooing for money during

1165
01:01:55.000 --> 01:01:58.360
<v Speaker 2>that time. In the beginning, I was just tattooing like

1166
01:01:58.440 --> 01:02:01.760
<v Speaker 2>pretty beautiful images and then and then I would listen

1167
01:02:01.760 --> 01:02:04.440
<v Speaker 2>to people's stories and it was like, you know, I've

1168
01:02:04.480 --> 01:02:07.199
<v Speaker 2>tattooed the father who has accidentally killed his only son,

1169
01:02:08.000 --> 01:02:11.440
<v Speaker 2>and you know, and he wanted to get something that

1170
01:02:12.159 --> 01:02:15.119
<v Speaker 2>you might consider silly because it's like who would want that?

1171
01:02:15.639 --> 01:02:18.800
<v Speaker 2>So I started reading about books on bereavement and just

1172
01:02:18.880 --> 01:02:21.639
<v Speaker 2>the death process in general, and it wasn't you know,

1173
01:02:21.760 --> 01:02:25.719
<v Speaker 2>any thing other than just like you know, I'm I'm

1174
01:02:25.760 --> 01:02:28.840
<v Speaker 2>not a therapist, I'm not equipped for this, and I

1175
01:02:28.920 --> 01:02:30.360
<v Speaker 2>was taking a lot of it on. But I think

1176
01:02:30.400 --> 01:02:34.280
<v Speaker 2>the more, especially in like this country, people are scared

1177
01:02:34.280 --> 01:02:36.159
<v Speaker 2>to talk about things like that, whereas like for me,

1178
01:02:36.239 --> 01:02:38.280
<v Speaker 2>I think it's like it's the most human thing you

1179
01:02:38.320 --> 01:02:42.079
<v Speaker 2>could do because it's the one thing that you're gonna die,

1180
01:02:42.119 --> 01:02:44.559
<v Speaker 2>we're gonna we're all gonna experience it in some capacity,

1181
01:02:44.639 --> 01:02:46.960
<v Speaker 2>so it's okay to talk about it. And I think

1182
01:02:46.960 --> 01:02:49.639
<v Speaker 2>there are certain ways that are more sincere and less sincere.

1183
01:02:51.079 --> 01:02:53.480
<v Speaker 2>And so yeah, so that to answer your question, that's

1184
01:02:53.480 --> 01:02:57.360
<v Speaker 2>why death was always kind of in my peripheral and

1185
01:02:57.599 --> 01:03:00.199
<v Speaker 2>I just never have I'm I'm not uncomfortable to talking

1186
01:03:00.199 --> 01:03:00.599
<v Speaker 2>about it.

1187
01:03:00.840 --> 01:03:02.679
<v Speaker 1>And nobody talks about the Book of Job. And I

1188
01:03:02.719 --> 01:03:05.639
<v Speaker 1>think when this came up for whatever interview was, you

1189
01:03:05.679 --> 01:03:07.519
<v Speaker 1>mentioned the Book of Job and that I think I

1190
01:03:07.519 --> 01:03:08.920
<v Speaker 1>was reading it at the Yeah, that was something that

1191
01:03:08.960 --> 01:03:13.079
<v Speaker 1>resonated with you. Why.

1192
01:03:14.320 --> 01:03:20.239
<v Speaker 2>I think that, like in the times where the suffering

1193
01:03:20.360 --> 01:03:24.719
<v Speaker 2>is taking place, it's like, if I could strive to

1194
01:03:24.719 --> 01:03:27.840
<v Speaker 2>be more like Job. I mean, it's a it's an

1195
01:03:27.840 --> 01:03:31.599
<v Speaker 2>example of how I want to be, you know. I

1196
01:03:31.599 --> 01:03:33.760
<v Speaker 2>I don't. I'm not there yet. I mean I in

1197
01:03:34.039 --> 01:03:37.400
<v Speaker 2>some some days more than others. But I think that's

1198
01:03:37.440 --> 01:03:39.639
<v Speaker 2>why I had brought it up, or it came up

1199
01:03:39.679 --> 01:03:43.280
<v Speaker 2>in that other conversation. But yeah, well.

1200
01:03:43.440 --> 01:03:45.880
<v Speaker 1>What's interesting why I was going with it was a

1201
01:03:45.920 --> 01:03:50.039
<v Speaker 1>lot of people miss how crystallogical Job is because there's

1202
01:03:50.119 --> 01:03:52.440
<v Speaker 1>so much in it that's and then there's specific like

1203
01:03:52.480 --> 01:03:55.320
<v Speaker 1>references to the Redeemer I will see him on the

1204
01:03:55.360 --> 01:03:58.159
<v Speaker 1>Last Day, which are specific, you know, prophecies of Christ.

1205
01:03:58.280 --> 01:04:00.719
<v Speaker 1>But it's also the sort of mysterious book that we

1206
01:04:00.719 --> 01:04:02.960
<v Speaker 1>don't actually know what time period it is. We know

1207
01:04:03.000 --> 01:04:05.480
<v Speaker 1>it's ancient, we don't know exactly if it was a

1208
01:04:05.559 --> 01:04:08.199
<v Speaker 1>person adjacent to Israel or living in ancient Israel. But

1209
01:04:08.840 --> 01:04:12.039
<v Speaker 1>you have this pattern of a man, you know, tempted,

1210
01:04:13.360 --> 01:04:15.679
<v Speaker 1>a man who goes through the worst types of suffering

1211
01:04:16.000 --> 01:04:19.039
<v Speaker 1>and then in the end triumphs and has given you know,

1212
01:04:19.719 --> 01:04:24.280
<v Speaker 1>manifold blessings, and that is the catabasas death royal resurrection

1213
01:04:24.440 --> 01:04:26.400
<v Speaker 1>motif that you see in the life of Christ.

1214
01:04:27.239 --> 01:04:29.320
<v Speaker 2>So I honestly never thought of that. I didn't know.

1215
01:04:29.360 --> 01:04:29.840
<v Speaker 2>That's so cool.

1216
01:04:29.960 --> 01:04:31.800
<v Speaker 1>So many Old Testament people are that way. And in

1217
01:04:31.920 --> 01:04:36.360
<v Speaker 1>terms of typology, like you see this with Jeremiah, when

1218
01:04:36.440 --> 01:04:39.679
<v Speaker 1>Jeremiah's persecuted by Israel, and there's all these things that

1219
01:04:39.760 --> 01:04:42.679
<v Speaker 1>Jeremiah says in the book, like he preaches at the

1220
01:04:42.719 --> 01:04:47.119
<v Speaker 1>Israelites and rebukes them for giving into the false teachings

1221
01:04:47.159 --> 01:04:50.519
<v Speaker 1>of the lawyers and the scribes, exactly parallel to what

1222
01:04:50.599 --> 01:04:53.519
<v Speaker 1>Jesus says to the Pharisees in Matthew twenty three. There's

1223
01:04:53.519 --> 01:04:56.039
<v Speaker 1>a whole passage in Jeremiah about the good shepherd and

1224
01:04:56.280 --> 01:04:59.039
<v Speaker 1>Christ being or God being the shepherd of Israel. And

1225
01:04:59.079 --> 01:05:04.039
<v Speaker 1>then Jesus matches what Jeremiah preaches. Jeremiah's like led down

1226
01:05:04.079 --> 01:05:08.440
<v Speaker 1>into a pit and then he's imprisoned. There. That's Christ's

1227
01:05:08.440 --> 01:05:12.719
<v Speaker 1>descent into Hades. All of these prophets, and Jesus himself

1228
01:05:12.760 --> 01:05:15.639
<v Speaker 1>makes this point even with Joe when he says just says,

1229
01:05:15.760 --> 01:05:18.360
<v Speaker 1>Joe was in the heart of the whale, So will

1230
01:05:18.400 --> 01:05:19.480
<v Speaker 1>the Son of Man be in the heart of the

1231
01:05:19.519 --> 01:05:21.199
<v Speaker 1>earth for three days and three nights. So you notice

1232
01:05:21.239 --> 01:05:25.599
<v Speaker 1>this pattern of it's not just persecution and we likening

1233
01:05:25.639 --> 01:05:27.880
<v Speaker 1>our stuff, or we sort of join our sufferings for Christ,

1234
01:05:27.920 --> 01:05:30.199
<v Speaker 1>which is what we're supposed to do to get through it.

1235
01:05:30.280 --> 01:05:33.400
<v Speaker 1>But it's also a descent into Hades, which you see

1236
01:05:33.440 --> 01:05:34.960
<v Speaker 1>over and over and over in the Old Testament, which

1237
01:05:35.280 --> 01:05:41.719
<v Speaker 1>and that's important because Protestants in Rome, although they confess

1238
01:05:42.360 --> 01:05:44.360
<v Speaker 1>the descent into Hades, it doesn't really have a lot

1239
01:05:44.400 --> 01:05:46.880
<v Speaker 1>of significance in the theology. But for Orthodoxy, heroing of

1240
01:05:46.920 --> 01:05:49.760
<v Speaker 1>Hades is huge because it means that death is not

1241
01:05:49.920 --> 01:05:54.079
<v Speaker 1>actually fearful or scary anymore because He's triumphed over it.

1242
01:05:54.360 --> 01:05:56.639
<v Speaker 1>So it's actually, as Saint Anthonaius says, death is actually

1243
01:05:56.679 --> 01:05:58.960
<v Speaker 1>good for us. It's the doorway to eternal life. We're

1244
01:05:59.000 --> 01:06:01.119
<v Speaker 1>not worried about it. So I say all that to

1245
01:06:01.159 --> 01:06:06.719
<v Speaker 1>say that suffering in our paradigm actually is transfigured to

1246
01:06:06.800 --> 01:06:11.159
<v Speaker 1>be meaningful. Outside of our paradigm suffering, and I'm not

1247
01:06:11.159 --> 01:06:13.559
<v Speaker 1>saying that other Christian groups don't have a conception of

1248
01:06:13.559 --> 01:06:16.719
<v Speaker 1>suffering or united to Christ's passion but for us, I

1249
01:06:16.760 --> 01:06:19.079
<v Speaker 1>think it's just much more profound than it's a lot.

1250
01:06:19.519 --> 01:06:22.280
<v Speaker 1>We have a better toolkit to deal with it. And

1251
01:06:22.320 --> 01:06:24.119
<v Speaker 1>that's the key to the Book of Job is that

1252
01:06:24.159 --> 01:06:27.480
<v Speaker 1>it's mirrors Christ's life, even though obviously Job is just

1253
01:06:27.599 --> 01:06:30.800
<v Speaker 1>merely a man. Yeah, but Christ is not merely a man.

1254
01:06:30.840 --> 01:06:33.280
<v Speaker 1>He's also the Son of God. So I love that

1255
01:06:33.840 --> 01:06:39.760
<v Speaker 1>there's almost and everybody's turned towards Orthodoxy. I've noticed some

1256
01:06:39.840 --> 01:06:41.559
<v Speaker 1>point where they kind of come to the end of themselves.

1257
01:06:41.639 --> 01:06:44.000
<v Speaker 1>And I don't just mean a conversion, like because everybody

1258
01:06:44.039 --> 01:06:47.480
<v Speaker 1>who even converts to Protestantism or Evangelicalism like, yeah, I

1259
01:06:47.480 --> 01:06:49.559
<v Speaker 1>came to it to myself and I saw my sins.

1260
01:06:49.280 --> 01:06:54.199
<v Speaker 1>And but there's something about going into Orthodoxy, where there's

1261
01:06:54.280 --> 01:06:58.719
<v Speaker 1>a narrow passageway of humility that requires you to be like,

1262
01:06:59.400 --> 01:07:02.760
<v Speaker 1>it's not just that I had this experience, like everything

1263
01:07:03.400 --> 01:07:05.599
<v Speaker 1>has got to be transformed. Does that make sense?

1264
01:07:05.679 --> 01:07:06.599
<v Speaker 2>Like yeah, in.

1265
01:07:06.480 --> 01:07:09.599
<v Speaker 1>Protestantism you can kind of like make a decision of like, oh, well, yeah,

1266
01:07:09.639 --> 01:07:11.679
<v Speaker 1>I did that thing last year where I prayed the

1267
01:07:11.719 --> 01:07:14.159
<v Speaker 1>Sinner's prayer at the Billy Graham thing, and I'm cool.

1268
01:07:14.440 --> 01:07:17.360
<v Speaker 1>But now it's like, no, every day is now transformed,

1269
01:07:17.639 --> 01:07:20.480
<v Speaker 1>so it's it's an eternal thing. Now it's not even

1270
01:07:20.480 --> 01:07:23.320
<v Speaker 1>a like temporal thing anyway. All I'm saying is that

1271
01:07:24.320 --> 01:07:24.679
<v Speaker 1>you what do.

1272
01:07:24.679 --> 01:07:26.159
<v Speaker 2>You mean it's an internal thing? That you mean the

1273
01:07:26.480 --> 01:07:28.079
<v Speaker 2>process or what do you.

1274
01:07:28.159 --> 01:07:30.599
<v Speaker 1>We will always be this like the cave Doocans say,

1275
01:07:30.639 --> 01:07:32.920
<v Speaker 1>we will always be moving up into God. So in

1276
01:07:32.960 --> 01:07:37.119
<v Speaker 1>the asketon we don't have the cessation of movement like

1277
01:07:37.199 --> 01:07:39.800
<v Speaker 1>the plate. The Platonists old philosophers used to think that, like, well,

1278
01:07:39.800 --> 01:07:41.440
<v Speaker 1>when you go on, you want to get real, you

1279
01:07:41.440 --> 01:07:45.760
<v Speaker 1>want to you want to leave the domain of flocks

1280
01:07:45.760 --> 01:07:49.920
<v Speaker 1>and change. So this world is like temporal it's there's movement,

1281
01:07:49.920 --> 01:07:53.039
<v Speaker 1>there's change, And so they reason that whatever the good

1282
01:07:53.039 --> 01:07:55.239
<v Speaker 1>world is, it's got to be the opposite of this one.

1283
01:07:55.679 --> 01:07:58.840
<v Speaker 1>So there can't be change or movement or whatever. And

1284
01:07:58.880 --> 01:08:00.360
<v Speaker 1>this is what led a lot of the Geks and

1285
01:08:00.360 --> 01:08:03.440
<v Speaker 1>Greek philosophers to say, how could there be a body resurrection?

1286
01:08:04.119 --> 01:08:09.920
<v Speaker 1>Because body implies movement, change, and they just assumed that

1287
01:08:09.960 --> 01:08:12.000
<v Speaker 1>you couldn't have that in the eternal state. So what

1288
01:08:12.039 --> 01:08:18.239
<v Speaker 1>I was saying is that for us, movement, body, image, form,

1289
01:08:18.399 --> 01:08:20.199
<v Speaker 1>all of these things that we think of as characterizing

1290
01:08:20.239 --> 01:08:23.119
<v Speaker 1>this world. They're not bad. They're not like Platonists, neo

1291
01:08:23.159 --> 01:08:26.000
<v Speaker 1>Platonists or Gnostics. They would denegrate the body in this

1292
01:08:26.039 --> 01:08:28.039
<v Speaker 1>world and creation, and it's not bad. Those things are

1293
01:08:28.039 --> 01:08:31.479
<v Speaker 1>all good because they continue on into eternity. So that's

1294
01:08:31.479 --> 01:08:33.800
<v Speaker 1>what I meant by not the suffering is eternal, but

1295
01:08:33.960 --> 01:08:36.439
<v Speaker 1>that I mean we don't think about it like a

1296
01:08:36.479 --> 01:08:38.119
<v Speaker 1>new heavens and a new Earth. We think of it.

1297
01:08:38.159 --> 01:08:39.680
<v Speaker 1>Most people think of it like, oh, when I go

1298
01:08:39.720 --> 01:08:42.000
<v Speaker 1>to heaven, it's like my mind goes to this cloud

1299
01:08:42.039 --> 01:08:45.479
<v Speaker 1>world and I'm like a you know, mind ball floating around. No,

1300
01:08:45.600 --> 01:08:47.600
<v Speaker 1>you're actually going to be in this body. Yeah, and

1301
01:08:47.640 --> 01:08:50.399
<v Speaker 1>you're going to have the same characteristics to a degree

1302
01:08:50.399 --> 01:08:51.880
<v Speaker 1>that you have. Right, most of the black is still

1303
01:08:51.880 --> 01:08:55.760
<v Speaker 1>a black duty. He doesn't become a grad dude. So

1304
01:08:56.399 --> 01:09:00.000
<v Speaker 1>our history matters. We retain it even into the escata,

1305
01:09:00.159 --> 01:09:02.520
<v Speaker 1>not all the bad parts, but the good parts. So

1306
01:09:02.600 --> 01:09:05.520
<v Speaker 1>that's our perspective, and that makes all of what we

1307
01:09:05.560 --> 01:09:09.600
<v Speaker 1>go through way more meaningful, and you can put it

1308
01:09:09.600 --> 01:09:12.520
<v Speaker 1>into a perspective, and if you don't have that cosmic perspectives,

1309
01:09:12.600 --> 01:09:16.680
<v Speaker 1>what I'm getting at is that the sufferings appear to

1310
01:09:16.720 --> 01:09:18.800
<v Speaker 1>be pointless. Why am I going through this? Why is

1311
01:09:18.840 --> 01:09:21.720
<v Speaker 1>this happening to me? But you can actually through this

1312
01:09:21.760 --> 01:09:24.319
<v Speaker 1>paradigm through the Orthodox paradigm. I think it makes a

1313
01:09:24.359 --> 01:09:28.039
<v Speaker 1>lot more sense. Suffering takes on the meaning of being

1314
01:09:28.039 --> 01:09:31.039
<v Speaker 1>a means of transfiguration at deosis. That's all I'm saying.

1315
01:09:31.279 --> 01:09:31.760
<v Speaker 2>It's cool.

1316
01:09:33.800 --> 01:09:37.800
<v Speaker 1>You talked about influences, and most of them I was like, yeah,

1317
01:09:37.800 --> 01:09:43.039
<v Speaker 1>I like them. I like the Depeche Mode Cure industrial music. Yeah,

1318
01:09:43.319 --> 01:09:50.840
<v Speaker 1>and you come up regularly in our playlist. So what's

1319
01:09:50.880 --> 01:09:56.600
<v Speaker 1>your number one vibe influence right now? I don't.

1320
01:09:56.640 --> 01:09:58.319
<v Speaker 2>I don't really listen to a lot of music like

1321
01:09:58.319 --> 01:10:01.119
<v Speaker 2>that anymore. I listened to a lot of Chance.

1322
01:10:01.800 --> 01:10:04.800
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you gotta do it orthodox chant?

1323
01:10:05.760 --> 01:10:09.199
<v Speaker 2>Am I going to do one right now? Oh? I

1324
01:10:09.279 --> 01:10:13.279
<v Speaker 2>actually am. I wanted to end end this next album

1325
01:10:13.319 --> 01:10:18.560
<v Speaker 2>with a cover of Oh Gladso Light by the Byzantine version.

1326
01:10:19.560 --> 01:10:21.720
<v Speaker 2>I would sing it and instead of having a choir,

1327
01:10:22.039 --> 01:10:26.279
<v Speaker 2>I was gonna just replace with drone sounds. You know,

1328
01:10:26.279 --> 01:10:27.840
<v Speaker 2>always talking because people are like, are you gonna make

1329
01:10:27.840 --> 01:10:30.319
<v Speaker 2>a worship album? I'm never going to make a worship album.

1330
01:10:30.359 --> 01:10:34.600
<v Speaker 2>You know. It's one of those things that especially now

1331
01:10:34.800 --> 01:10:38.319
<v Speaker 2>when I when I you know, here are a choirs.

1332
01:10:38.359 --> 01:10:41.920
<v Speaker 2>I'm like, it's really not broken, Like why would we

1333
01:10:42.000 --> 01:10:45.239
<v Speaker 2>even try? This is and that's why a gladsom light

1334
01:10:45.279 --> 01:10:49.880
<v Speaker 2>to me, it's the it's the most perfect worship song,

1335
01:10:50.479 --> 01:10:54.680
<v Speaker 2>like it's perfection every word. It's one minute long and

1336
01:10:54.720 --> 01:10:57.079
<v Speaker 2>it's we don't even know who wrote it. It's one

1337
01:10:57.079 --> 01:10:59.880
<v Speaker 2>of the oldest I think it's fifteen hundred years old

1338
01:11:00.079 --> 01:11:01.920
<v Speaker 2>that they can trace it.

1339
01:11:02.199 --> 01:11:03.600
<v Speaker 1>So it's just like an acappella.

1340
01:11:04.880 --> 01:11:08.439
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so typically it's I mean obviously appella. Yeah, and

1341
01:11:08.479 --> 01:11:11.399
<v Speaker 2>there's a Byzantine version that I love. I've like we

1342
01:11:11.880 --> 01:11:14.720
<v Speaker 2>at our parish they sing it during great vespers every

1343
01:11:14.800 --> 01:11:19.840
<v Speaker 2>every great vespers and and one day I asked one

1344
01:11:19.880 --> 01:11:24.000
<v Speaker 2>of the people in our choir like, hey, I'd love

1345
01:11:24.039 --> 01:11:25.760
<v Speaker 2>to hear like a recording of this, you know, And

1346
01:11:25.880 --> 01:11:28.000
<v Speaker 2>I went on YouTube and I can only find one

1347
01:11:28.640 --> 01:11:32.920
<v Speaker 2>one recording, but every it's it's it's a tricky one.

1348
01:11:32.960 --> 01:11:35.319
<v Speaker 2>It's a tricky one to find, like the Byzantine version.

1349
01:11:35.399 --> 01:11:39.560
<v Speaker 2>So so yeah that I am going to incorporate that

1350
01:11:39.600 --> 01:11:42.159
<v Speaker 2>in the next I have the blessing from my priests

1351
01:11:42.159 --> 01:11:43.560
<v Speaker 2>and you know.

1352
01:11:43.800 --> 01:11:45.640
<v Speaker 1>But you're I mean, the rest of the album is

1353
01:11:45.640 --> 01:11:45.880
<v Speaker 1>going to.

1354
01:11:45.920 --> 01:11:49.239
<v Speaker 2>Be electronic yeah. Yeah, I make electronic music, so I

1355
01:11:49.399 --> 01:11:53.479
<v Speaker 2>like the eighties style but a little darker and you know,

1356
01:11:54.399 --> 01:11:56.760
<v Speaker 2>trying to bring that soul into the electronic realm.

1357
01:11:56.840 --> 01:11:59.720
<v Speaker 1>I sent you in my Mormon space wise new wave.

1358
01:12:00.079 --> 01:12:02.119
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, and there was no comments.

1359
01:12:01.720 --> 01:12:04.199
<v Speaker 2>So I guess that tells me that left unread.

1360
01:12:04.439 --> 01:12:08.880
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Actually I have to give a shout out doctor Evoe.

1361
01:12:09.159 --> 01:12:10.239
<v Speaker 1>He didn't really get on that one.

1362
01:12:10.279 --> 01:12:12.720
<v Speaker 2>But oh a person made that.

1363
01:12:13.079 --> 01:12:17.640
<v Speaker 1>Or yeah, sectual music, Oh, actual music, you should listen

1364
01:12:17.680 --> 01:12:17.880
<v Speaker 1>to it.

1365
01:12:19.800 --> 01:12:22.039
<v Speaker 2>I thought it was a no, it's not.

1366
01:12:23.119 --> 01:12:26.359
<v Speaker 1>No, he's an a legit producer, like an actual But

1367
01:12:26.439 --> 01:12:30.640
<v Speaker 1>you wrote the lyrics, I sing, yeah, yeah, but you

1368
01:12:30.720 --> 01:12:32.840
<v Speaker 1>wrote the lyrics. Well, they're all improvs. So they were

1369
01:12:32.880 --> 01:12:35.439
<v Speaker 1>never written but written in my head. A freestyle written

1370
01:12:35.479 --> 01:12:38.680
<v Speaker 1>in my I'm a freestyle are Yeah, you're influenced by

1371
01:12:40.039 --> 01:12:42.600
<v Speaker 1>teen angst music?

1372
01:12:43.119 --> 01:12:45.000
<v Speaker 2>No, you know, I struggle. I feel like my my

1373
01:12:45.039 --> 01:12:47.680
<v Speaker 2>first album was just all like sad love songs. That

1374
01:12:47.760 --> 01:12:50.720
<v Speaker 2>was my favorite genre at the time, and I still

1375
01:12:50.800 --> 01:12:53.720
<v Speaker 2>love that, but it feels a bit self indulgent now.

1376
01:12:53.720 --> 01:13:00.520
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I think it's it's I'm mean, there's things

1377
01:13:00.520 --> 01:13:02.199
<v Speaker 2>that I'm frustrated with and I think a lot of

1378
01:13:02.199 --> 01:13:06.840
<v Speaker 2>those things that I talk about about, those frustrations, you know,

1379
01:13:06.880 --> 01:13:11.439
<v Speaker 2>there's I don't like the divide, you know. So this

1380
01:13:11.520 --> 01:13:13.560
<v Speaker 2>next album, we've been writing a lot about that type

1381
01:13:13.560 --> 01:13:17.119
<v Speaker 2>of thing. But we're still in the in the stages

1382
01:13:17.119 --> 01:13:19.600
<v Speaker 2>of writing, so we have like a few more rounds

1383
01:13:19.600 --> 01:13:19.840
<v Speaker 2>to go.

1384
01:13:19.960 --> 01:13:22.680
<v Speaker 1>But is there a new single? Nothing's out yet, nothing

1385
01:13:24.119 --> 01:13:25.760
<v Speaker 1>when is Do you know when there will be a single?

1386
01:13:26.079 --> 01:13:28.159
<v Speaker 2>Mmm? We're hoping for the fall.

1387
01:13:28.279 --> 01:13:34.439
<v Speaker 1>But when it comes to the new album, is this

1388
01:13:34.560 --> 01:13:40.000
<v Speaker 1>going to be like heavy scent, heavy dark themes or

1389
01:13:40.039 --> 01:13:42.239
<v Speaker 1>are we getting a lighter, more positive theme here?

1390
01:13:42.880 --> 01:13:44.800
<v Speaker 2>I don't. I don't think I can do happy, So

1391
01:13:45.880 --> 01:13:49.920
<v Speaker 2>that's not I don't know. I have joy in my life.

1392
01:13:49.920 --> 01:13:54.239
<v Speaker 2>I do. I just it's the you know, find me

1393
01:13:54.239 --> 01:13:55.079
<v Speaker 2>in the minor chords.

1394
01:13:55.159 --> 01:13:58.359
<v Speaker 1>So when Fear You comes on, we actually enjoyed us

1395
01:13:58.359 --> 01:14:00.880
<v Speaker 1>sing it and I'm happy. Oh yeah, my vibing wrong?

1396
01:14:00.920 --> 01:14:03.520
<v Speaker 1>Is so I'm supposed to No, no, no, I.

1397
01:14:03.479 --> 01:14:06.199
<v Speaker 2>Mean that song was that album was about one particular

1398
01:14:06.960 --> 01:14:10.359
<v Speaker 2>like relationship that was very dysfunctional. So but it's you know.

1399
01:14:11.600 --> 01:14:13.800
<v Speaker 1>I had fun with those songs. Yeah, I mean, remind

1400
01:14:13.840 --> 01:14:15.119
<v Speaker 1>me we have to be sad now.

1401
01:14:15.000 --> 01:14:16.159
<v Speaker 2>When we hear that no, don't.

1402
01:14:18.520 --> 01:14:20.039
<v Speaker 1>So we talked about the look of Joe, We talked

1403
01:14:20.039 --> 01:14:28.039
<v Speaker 1>about music wise lost comments on Let's talk about orthodoxy

1404
01:14:28.359 --> 01:14:31.159
<v Speaker 1>one last time because this is kind of as far

1405
01:14:31.199 --> 01:14:32.720
<v Speaker 1>as I'm aware, you might have done a different interview

1406
01:14:32.720 --> 01:14:34.359
<v Speaker 1>that it's never caught, but the.

1407
01:14:34.319 --> 01:14:36.279
<v Speaker 2>Scene I've never really talked about this second. I've done

1408
01:14:36.359 --> 01:14:38.600
<v Speaker 2>one interview with Father John Parker but it hasn't been

1409
01:14:38.640 --> 01:14:39.199
<v Speaker 2>released yet.

1410
01:14:39.199 --> 01:14:41.319
<v Speaker 1>But so we have to hurry and release this before

1411
01:14:41.359 --> 01:14:43.000
<v Speaker 1>he does because I want to be the first to

1412
01:14:43.039 --> 01:14:44.279
<v Speaker 1>get you talking about.

1413
01:14:44.960 --> 01:14:48.680
<v Speaker 2>So, you know, I tend to shy away from talking

1414
01:14:48.680 --> 01:14:53.640
<v Speaker 2>about my faith publicly, and it's not for any other

1415
01:14:53.680 --> 01:14:57.520
<v Speaker 2>reason than I just don't feel worthy or equipped in

1416
01:14:57.560 --> 01:15:01.520
<v Speaker 2>a lot of ways. And it it's not it's just

1417
01:15:01.520 --> 01:15:04.319
<v Speaker 2>me being honest. It's like there's so many people that

1418
01:15:04.359 --> 01:15:07.880
<v Speaker 2>are so well versed and so eloquent and they're speaking

1419
01:15:09.159 --> 01:15:11.920
<v Speaker 2>I you know, I think we talked a little bit

1420
01:15:11.960 --> 01:15:16.880
<v Speaker 2>about this earlier, but I think I shine brightest one.

1421
01:15:16.920 --> 01:15:19.199
<v Speaker 2>It's one on one, and I think if someone wants

1422
01:15:19.239 --> 01:15:21.239
<v Speaker 2>to talk to me about it, like if my friends

1423
01:15:21.239 --> 01:15:23.319
<v Speaker 2>were to text me about it, which is it's happened

1424
01:15:23.359 --> 01:15:26.039
<v Speaker 2>and I've gone to church with taking my friend to

1425
01:15:26.119 --> 01:15:30.039
<v Speaker 2>church at school. But as you know, there's some people

1426
01:15:30.119 --> 01:15:35.439
<v Speaker 2>that have the calling to be the priests and or

1427
01:15:35.840 --> 01:15:39.279
<v Speaker 2>what you do for example, you know. But whereas for me,

1428
01:15:39.359 --> 01:15:45.000
<v Speaker 2>I've like, I love Orthodox Christianity so much that I

1429
01:15:45.000 --> 01:15:52.600
<v Speaker 2>would rather protect it from my my dumbness, you know.

1430
01:15:53.079 --> 01:15:56.399
<v Speaker 2>So I can only speak from the heart from my experience.

1431
01:15:56.439 --> 01:15:58.960
<v Speaker 2>But as far as like theology goes, I leave it

1432
01:15:59.000 --> 01:16:01.239
<v Speaker 2>to the pros for now, at least.

1433
01:16:02.479 --> 01:16:04.520
<v Speaker 1>The reason I ask about that for the sake of

1434
01:16:04.560 --> 01:16:06.680
<v Speaker 1>my audience is more so, although I know you're not

1435
01:16:06.920 --> 01:16:11.079
<v Speaker 1>in the apologetics domain or whatever, but usually people have

1436
01:16:11.159 --> 01:16:14.159
<v Speaker 1>a couple hang ups or things that kind of when

1437
01:16:14.199 --> 01:16:18.000
<v Speaker 1>they first encountered the realm of Orthodoxy, they like, what

1438
01:16:18.159 --> 01:16:20.439
<v Speaker 1>these pictures are weird? Why do they have that? I

1439
01:16:20.479 --> 01:16:22.800
<v Speaker 1>was just curious about what a couple hang ups might

1440
01:16:22.840 --> 01:16:25.680
<v Speaker 1>have been that you kind of eventually worked through. Were

1441
01:16:25.680 --> 01:16:26.880
<v Speaker 1>there any I.

1442
01:16:26.800 --> 01:16:29.359
<v Speaker 2>Mean, I had questions, which I think everyone should have questions,

1443
01:16:29.399 --> 01:16:31.239
<v Speaker 2>because it's important to understand what you do. And we

1444
01:16:31.239 --> 01:16:33.760
<v Speaker 2>don't just blindly do things, you know. Whereas I think

1445
01:16:33.840 --> 01:16:36.079
<v Speaker 2>a lot of times, and not again not to knock

1446
01:16:36.159 --> 01:16:38.520
<v Speaker 2>my Protestant friends, but it's like a lot of times

1447
01:16:38.600 --> 01:16:40.399
<v Speaker 2>I would see people just kind of going through the

1448
01:16:40.439 --> 01:16:43.159
<v Speaker 2>motions versus the understanding why do we do this or

1449
01:16:43.359 --> 01:16:46.520
<v Speaker 2>why does the Bible say that? You know, like you know,

1450
01:16:46.880 --> 01:16:50.159
<v Speaker 2>I wanted to understand like the commandment about the Sabbath.

1451
01:16:49.840 --> 01:16:51.800
<v Speaker 1>Or you know you get an SDA background right seven

1452
01:16:51.840 --> 01:16:52.840
<v Speaker 1>day even and this is that right.

1453
01:16:52.920 --> 01:16:54.560
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, But I usually don't like to bring that up

1454
01:16:54.560 --> 01:16:58.279
<v Speaker 2>because again I think everyone's going through there. You know,

1455
01:16:58.680 --> 01:17:02.039
<v Speaker 2>I have my my my own views on that now

1456
01:17:02.199 --> 01:17:04.880
<v Speaker 2>as as an adult and understanding things, and it's like,

1457
01:17:05.359 --> 01:17:09.119
<v Speaker 2>you know, it's a very fringe.

1458
01:17:09.239 --> 01:17:12.079
<v Speaker 1>The reason I say that is, did that perhaps raise

1459
01:17:12.119 --> 01:17:15.800
<v Speaker 1>an issue with well, why Sunday versus Saturday? Or why

1460
01:17:15.840 --> 01:17:19.319
<v Speaker 1>the images in the church? Because a lot of that realm.

1461
01:17:19.399 --> 01:17:21.840
<v Speaker 2>No, because you know, I was brought up that way,

1462
01:17:21.920 --> 01:17:26.399
<v Speaker 2>and then I was. I strayed from from faith altogether

1463
01:17:27.239 --> 01:17:30.199
<v Speaker 2>for many for decades. So it's not like I was

1464
01:17:30.520 --> 01:17:32.640
<v Speaker 2>coming in. I mean there are some things like I

1465
01:17:32.720 --> 01:17:37.000
<v Speaker 2>never you know, I never ate shrimp. Yeah, I still haven't.

1466
01:17:37.399 --> 01:17:40.640
<v Speaker 2>It's not now it's for other reasons, but before it

1467
01:17:40.680 --> 01:17:43.279
<v Speaker 2>was because that's what some day Avnas don't eat fish

1468
01:17:43.319 --> 01:17:45.520
<v Speaker 2>without scales or you know, pork and things like that.

1469
01:17:46.720 --> 01:17:49.920
<v Speaker 2>But as far as theology, No, no one from the

1470
01:17:49.960 --> 01:17:54.359
<v Speaker 2>Protestant realm answered questions to me. So it wasn't it

1471
01:17:54.399 --> 01:17:57.279
<v Speaker 2>wasn't like this is where I talk about my the

1472
01:17:57.319 --> 01:18:01.079
<v Speaker 2>cup wasn't filled, you know. Like so it wasn't until

1473
01:18:01.079 --> 01:18:05.479
<v Speaker 2>I entered the Orthodox Church that I just really started

1474
01:18:05.520 --> 01:18:07.640
<v Speaker 2>having an understanding. So going back to what you're saying

1475
01:18:07.760 --> 01:18:09.640
<v Speaker 2>is like, you know, I think it's important to ask

1476
01:18:09.680 --> 01:18:12.399
<v Speaker 2>the questions and that way you can talk to your

1477
01:18:12.399 --> 01:18:14.880
<v Speaker 2>friends about it when they do have you know. And

1478
01:18:15.199 --> 01:18:17.000
<v Speaker 2>for me, I always look at it from the lens

1479
01:18:17.039 --> 01:18:18.359
<v Speaker 2>of a mom. I want to be able to answer

1480
01:18:18.439 --> 01:18:21.560
<v Speaker 2>Leopard's question so that, you know, as he gets older,

1481
01:18:21.560 --> 01:18:25.239
<v Speaker 2>he's equipped with the ability to have conversations with his

1482
01:18:25.279 --> 01:18:26.880
<v Speaker 2>friends who are not going to be Christian, you know,

1483
01:18:26.920 --> 01:18:29.479
<v Speaker 2>and and not just do it because mommy and Daddy

1484
01:18:29.479 --> 01:18:32.680
<v Speaker 2>brought us up this way, you know. So yeah, and

1485
01:18:32.720 --> 01:18:35.640
<v Speaker 2>I'm still obviously learning all the time. But as far

1486
01:18:35.680 --> 01:18:39.079
<v Speaker 2>as hang ups, I didn't really have any hang ups,

1487
01:18:39.119 --> 01:18:43.520
<v Speaker 2>Like I really understood what venerating the saints meant. It

1488
01:18:43.560 --> 01:18:46.920
<v Speaker 2>wasn't you know. I had a friend that explained it

1489
01:18:46.920 --> 01:18:48.159
<v Speaker 2>to me because I did say that to him. I

1490
01:18:48.159 --> 01:18:50.680
<v Speaker 2>was like, what's what's up with all those saints. That's

1491
01:18:50.720 --> 01:18:54.159
<v Speaker 2>kind of weird, right, And then he helped me understand it,

1492
01:18:54.199 --> 01:18:56.640
<v Speaker 2>and I was like, oh my gosh, like yeah, like

1493
01:18:57.840 --> 01:19:01.479
<v Speaker 2>how is it that I know about out all the

1494
01:19:01.520 --> 01:19:07.079
<v Speaker 2>fun facts of every musician that played in the Cure?

1495
01:19:07.479 --> 01:19:10.520
<v Speaker 2>You know? And it's like, why does everybody know when

1496
01:19:10.560 --> 01:19:12.960
<v Speaker 2>Taylor Swift was getting married? Like, you know, it's like,

1497
01:19:14.000 --> 01:19:16.840
<v Speaker 2>what these are the posters I want on my wall?

1498
01:19:17.159 --> 01:19:19.479
<v Speaker 2>Do you know what I mean? So these are my friends?

1499
01:19:19.800 --> 01:19:21.680
<v Speaker 2>Like these I want to know all those stats And

1500
01:19:21.720 --> 01:19:24.640
<v Speaker 2>it's like those those are my examples versus you know.

1501
01:19:24.640 --> 01:19:28.159
<v Speaker 2>And I'm not saying that you can't admire our human

1502
01:19:28.159 --> 01:19:31.000
<v Speaker 2>friends and stuff, but like, but so that that made

1503
01:19:31.000 --> 01:19:33.640
<v Speaker 2>a lot more sense to me. I think, Like, so

1504
01:19:33.680 --> 01:19:37.640
<v Speaker 2>I didn't have any hang ups with you know, the

1505
01:19:37.680 --> 01:19:39.279
<v Speaker 2>Mother of God. You know, I think a lot of

1506
01:19:39.319 --> 01:19:41.039
<v Speaker 2>protests have a big hang up with it, and I

1507
01:19:41.079 --> 01:19:43.760
<v Speaker 2>think that's a misunderstanding, that's all, you know. But like

1508
01:19:43.800 --> 01:19:45.359
<v Speaker 2>when I talk to my dad about it, for example,

1509
01:19:45.399 --> 01:19:48.119
<v Speaker 2>my dad's not Orthodox and he loves Jesus a lot,

1510
01:19:48.199 --> 01:19:51.800
<v Speaker 2>you know, and but and he'll say things like I

1511
01:19:51.840 --> 01:19:54.359
<v Speaker 2>looked it up, you know, and he's like it's just

1512
01:19:54.520 --> 01:19:58.600
<v Speaker 2>very depressing and like for him, you know, and I go, yeah,

1513
01:19:58.680 --> 01:20:00.680
<v Speaker 2>for you, it is. But you know, I've been to

1514
01:20:00.760 --> 01:20:04.840
<v Speaker 2>like the megachurches or or the regular smaller churches too,

1515
01:20:05.239 --> 01:20:08.640
<v Speaker 2>and and I've seen the bands play. I've listened to

1516
01:20:08.680 --> 01:20:14.399
<v Speaker 2>the hymns from the seventies and it derails me, you know,

1517
01:20:14.479 --> 01:20:16.279
<v Speaker 2>it pulls me out because I'm like, oh, this is

1518
01:20:16.279 --> 01:20:19.399
<v Speaker 2>pop structure, all right. Here comes to drop and then

1519
01:20:19.439 --> 01:20:22.920
<v Speaker 2>here you know, it's like and it's like some the

1520
01:20:23.600 --> 01:20:27.800
<v Speaker 2>lyrics are so it could be a love song about

1521
01:20:28.199 --> 01:20:31.279
<v Speaker 2>a romance and to me, so it takes me out

1522
01:20:31.399 --> 01:20:33.920
<v Speaker 2>and where that brings joy for a lot of other

1523
01:20:33.960 --> 01:20:37.039
<v Speaker 2>people and they're listening to their car and there I

1524
01:20:37.039 --> 01:20:38.640
<v Speaker 2>think there's a lot of people that it really does

1525
01:20:38.680 --> 01:20:40.880
<v Speaker 2>bring them closer to God. So I'm not knocking that either.

1526
01:20:40.960 --> 01:20:45.560
<v Speaker 2>But for me, someone who comes from an extreme darkness,

1527
01:20:45.600 --> 01:20:49.880
<v Speaker 2>like I need the strictness. I like the tradition. I

1528
01:20:50.000 --> 01:20:55.079
<v Speaker 2>like the simplicity of just it's so direct, you know.

1529
01:20:55.399 --> 01:20:58.920
<v Speaker 2>And I remember Father Stephen, my my spiritual father, when

1530
01:20:58.960 --> 01:21:01.520
<v Speaker 2>when I was a catechory and he had written a

1531
01:21:01.520 --> 01:21:04.039
<v Speaker 2>little tiny it's like a pamphlet book on liturgy and

1532
01:21:04.079 --> 01:21:07.159
<v Speaker 2>it explained why do the readers sound like that, you know,

1533
01:21:07.199 --> 01:21:10.720
<v Speaker 2>because like for those that don't know, like there's when

1534
01:21:11.039 --> 01:21:14.720
<v Speaker 2>when they're reading scripture, it almost it could sound like

1535
01:21:14.760 --> 01:21:17.159
<v Speaker 2>you're at an auction to some people if they don't know,

1536
01:21:17.319 --> 01:21:21.319
<v Speaker 2>you know, and it's kind of just this monotone, you know.

1537
01:21:21.680 --> 01:21:24.000
<v Speaker 2>But I remember, like in that little pamphlet says like

1538
01:21:24.039 --> 01:21:25.920
<v Speaker 2>why do they sound like that? And it's like we're

1539
01:21:25.960 --> 01:21:29.119
<v Speaker 2>not putting our own personal inflection to things because we

1540
01:21:29.159 --> 01:21:31.880
<v Speaker 2>want the message to come out and be delivered clearly.

1541
01:21:32.520 --> 01:21:35.479
<v Speaker 2>And I just had such a deep appreciation for that

1542
01:21:35.880 --> 01:21:39.520
<v Speaker 2>because concert it's not just that, but it's like I

1543
01:21:39.520 --> 01:21:41.640
<v Speaker 2>would have a hard time, like like in July, I

1544
01:21:41.680 --> 01:21:46.399
<v Speaker 2>signed up for an iconography class where I'm gonna hopefully,

1545
01:21:46.600 --> 01:21:49.159
<v Speaker 2>you know, learn, and I think my biggest fear is

1546
01:21:49.199 --> 01:21:51.359
<v Speaker 2>that I won't. I just want to be able to

1547
01:21:51.399 --> 01:21:55.520
<v Speaker 2>not put myself into it, you know, because I know

1548
01:21:55.560 --> 01:21:59.359
<v Speaker 2>what an icon means and I've never not done that

1549
01:21:59.439 --> 01:22:04.159
<v Speaker 2>in my art, you know, so I appreciate that, you know,

1550
01:22:04.199 --> 01:22:07.239
<v Speaker 2>whereas someone like my dad, he's it's a might not

1551
01:22:07.279 --> 01:22:09.399
<v Speaker 2>resonate a certain way, and I would hope it would

1552
01:22:09.479 --> 01:22:11.399
<v Speaker 2>one day, like he came for the first time to

1553
01:22:11.479 --> 01:22:14.039
<v Speaker 2>my church when Leofar got baptized, and I was a

1554
01:22:14.039 --> 01:22:19.079
<v Speaker 2>little bit like nervous, not nervous, but just more I guess,

1555
01:22:19.159 --> 01:22:22.560
<v Speaker 2>just conscious of it, you know. And at one point

1556
01:22:22.640 --> 01:22:24.760
<v Speaker 2>I looked over and he was, you know, he was

1557
01:22:24.760 --> 01:22:26.880
<v Speaker 2>like filming all of it on his cell phone, which

1558
01:22:27.039 --> 01:22:28.800
<v Speaker 2>made me very happy, even though I know a lot

1559
01:22:28.840 --> 01:22:32.000
<v Speaker 2>of Orthodox get annoyed when people film stuff, but like

1560
01:22:32.199 --> 01:22:34.760
<v Speaker 2>to me, it was like, oh, my dad's absorbing this

1561
01:22:35.319 --> 01:22:38.000
<v Speaker 2>and he's seeing that this is something so special. And

1562
01:22:38.039 --> 01:22:42.079
<v Speaker 2>I caught him like looking at like the altar on

1563
01:22:42.079 --> 01:22:43.960
<v Speaker 2>his phone. I'm like, why would have he be filming

1564
01:22:44.000 --> 01:22:47.279
<v Speaker 2>that if he didn't, if he wasn't in awe of it?

1565
01:22:47.920 --> 01:22:50.399
<v Speaker 2>And I think that that's you know, I'm a I

1566
01:22:50.479 --> 01:22:54.720
<v Speaker 2>think the all senses really is makes me feel like

1567
01:22:54.760 --> 01:22:58.760
<v Speaker 2>it's true worship, Like I really feel like with all

1568
01:22:58.840 --> 01:23:02.560
<v Speaker 2>my being worshiping the Lord, Whereas like when I would

1569
01:23:02.600 --> 01:23:06.560
<v Speaker 2>go to the Protestant flavor, it feels more like I'm attending.

1570
01:23:06.720 --> 01:23:08.840
<v Speaker 1>A lecture hole or Ted talk or something.

1571
01:23:08.960 --> 01:23:12.159
<v Speaker 2>And you know, again like for someone like my dad,

1572
01:23:12.199 --> 01:23:16.840
<v Speaker 2>that really, you know, who am I to question whether

1573
01:23:16.880 --> 01:23:18.760
<v Speaker 2>it brings them closer to Christ or not? You know?

1574
01:23:20.600 --> 01:23:24.479
<v Speaker 2>But for me, oh, my gosh, it's just so so powerful,

1575
01:23:24.560 --> 01:23:27.079
<v Speaker 2>you know, it's so I look forward to it, you know.

1576
01:23:28.279 --> 01:23:30.199
<v Speaker 1>Thank you so much, Kat, Yeah, no, thanks.

1577
01:23:30.039 --> 01:23:31.960
<v Speaker 2>For coming over. I always enjoy hanging out. This is

1578
01:23:32.000 --> 01:23:35.119
<v Speaker 2>the second time I've hung out, and I love having

1579
01:23:35.159 --> 01:23:37.279
<v Speaker 2>you in the home and you and Jamie and it's

1580
01:23:37.319 --> 01:23:39.680
<v Speaker 2>just I feel lucky to be your friend.

1581
01:23:39.760 --> 01:23:42.239
<v Speaker 1>So absolutely, thank you guys so much. Be sure it

1582
01:23:42.319 --> 01:23:44.760
<v Speaker 1>hit like, share, leave comments below.

1583
01:23:44.600 --> 01:23:47.319
<v Speaker 2>Smells subscribe, but also.

1584
01:23:47.520 --> 01:23:50.920
<v Speaker 1>Uh listen more dad jokes below that could have been

1585
01:23:50.960 --> 01:23:53.479
<v Speaker 1>said that we're not said. And I will do dad

1586
01:23:53.560 --> 01:23:56.439
<v Speaker 1>jokes next time for more of them. Hey you guys,

1587
01:23:57.119 --> 01:23:57.479
<v Speaker 1>I love you.