Speaker 1: That's like the worst phone connection ever. Tom, are you
there younger? Okay, for some reason, there's like this, uh
strange sound in the background, but I think we can
live with it. Well, at least we can hear each other.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know what that would be, but yeah.
Speaker 1: I don't know. Do you hear that? Do you hear
like a buzzing in the background, Well.
Speaker 2: That could be just the airflow, but that's down in
the basement. I mean, I'm surprised it's traveling that far.
I'm on the first first floor.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's all right, though, we can hear you. You're
you're nice and you're coming through nice and clear. So
uh so that's that's what matters.
Speaker 2: Shut it off. I can shut it off if you
give me a second.
Speaker 1: Okay, well, okay, no problem if you are just joining us.
Tom Modern is calling in because the skype thing did
not work out. But uh, actually I really like that
song Toxic Man. What Tom does, if you are listening,
is unconventional. He's very unique. His music is a unique.
So I'm quite curious to speak with him. But he's
going to go and try to shut off whatever is
causing that sounds like angry bees.
Speaker 2: Okay, this should be better, all right.
Speaker 1: Tom, Hey, so, how do you describe your music? I'm
really curious let's start there, because what you're doing, and
obviously I'm not the only one to say this to you,
what you're doing is very unique. I cannot think of
anyone who I mean, there might be some influences there
that we can talk about, but I haven't heard anyone
who sounds quite like you. So I'm really curious. How
do you describe your music to someone who's never heard it.
Speaker 2: I would say it's a galectic. Its influenced by a
lot of different artists, and it's you know, it's organic
in the sense that I like to play a lot
of different instruments. But I would probably it's been tough
to categorize, but I would at times I would call
it art pop or post wave, yeah, or prog pop,
some prog influences there. It's difficult though. They don't have
the right categories for artists these days that they really
need a few more.
Speaker 1: You mentioned you play multiple instruments. Do you play everything
on these tracks? Is that all you.
Speaker 2: On some of the tracks? Yes, I've played everything, but
there were four or five guest musicians on the on
the album, I try to use as many people as
I can. It's just you know, it's sometimes it's tough
getting people and because I uh, I grew up playing
guitar and but I always had a piano and a
drum machine in my house, so it was sort of
natural too. Uh, just uh learn those instruments a little
bit as well.
Speaker 1: Sure, sure, yeah, so it's coming handy, yeah yeah. Uh.
The album is called Now, this is one of those words.
I don't know if I can say it correctly on
the first tryout. I will try performical. Am I saying
that correctly?
Speaker 2: Yeah? That's correct, yeah, performical?
Speaker 1: Yeah, performical. Is that a real word or is that
your word?
Speaker 2: It's a made up word? Just I don't know. It
came to me one day and it was that said,
you know that that's the album, that's the title performical. Well,
I think it comes go ahead.
Speaker 1: No, no, I was just going to ask you what
does it mean? I mean, obviously it's a made up word,
but what does it mean to you?
Speaker 2: I think it came from, uh, sort of an aberration
from my performing. I performed in New York for many
years and I tended tended to be somewhat theatrical, and
I would use props and costumes to help interpret the music.
And uh, and that just you know, just I don't know,
somehow joined into the word uh you know, well I
don't want word that would be end with c L
maybe but al festival or you know, so just naturally
sort of adapted to Perfromicle.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and you've got this is obviously a full
length album. What went into the decision to release us
as a full length And I asked that because and
this is kind of one of those questions I ask anybody,
because I'm always curious. We live in a time, as
you know, where there are so many different ways that
you can release music, different strategies. Some artists only release singles,
some release EPs, Some will release a series of singles
that eventually become an album. But was it important to
you to release Perfromical as an album? Is there is
there some sort of a cohesive theme running throughout these
songs or is it just or did it just seem
natural to do it this way?
Speaker 2: No, there was really no cohesive theme. I mean, all
the songs are very different if you look at from
the outside. Yeah, but it became clear to me to
be taken serious as a serious artist, you really have
to release an album. I mean I was just releasing
singles for a while and that just wasn't cutting it.
And I looked around at all the other artists who
are working, and they're not doing that, They're releasing albums.
So I was like, yeah, that's what I have to do.
And so I pulled back and all the other stuff
and just sank my energy into well. This release and
you know, hoping for the best, released in September of
this year, and I actually tried releasing it once before,
but I wasn't happy with some of the recordings, and
so I re recorded some of the tracks because I
was just learning digital recording years ago. Yeah, so along
with a lot of other people, and so that's the
way I did it, yeah up till now.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Do you where do you record? Do you record
at home? I mean it sounds like it's it's very
it sounds like this is very di I wy do
you do all of that yourself?
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, definitely. Part of it was recorded in New York.
Part of it was recorded it's uh Samdpiper Studios here
in Cleveland and part of it was recorded in Los
Angeles because a couple of the musicians were out there,
so they were turning in remote pieces. Uh geez. I
think it started though, I was recording in a storage
unit in New York, New York City. Yeah, it wasn't
It wasn't ideal, but it's part of it was a
part of it got done there.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So so now you're so are you
from New York originally?
Speaker 2: No, from Cleveland originally, but I born and raised, but
I lived in New York about it was about twenty
eight years.
Speaker 1: Oh okay, No, that's a long time in terms of
the music scene. And because again, you're doing something that's unusual.
Like I said, I can't think of anyone who sounds
quite like you. What was it like to do what
you do in New York? I assume that that if
there's anywhere in the country where you can do pretty
much just about anything you can think of musically, and
you're going to find some sort of an audience, right,
people are going to be interested. I would think that
New York City would be kind of the best place
to do something that is unusual and still be accepted
and have people want to participate in it and be
interested in it. Is my instinct correct about that. And
that's not to suggest that you don't have that in Cleveland,
but I assume in New York that's where you really
have that the most. Where you can you can create
whatever you want to and there's going to be some
sort of audience for it. Am I am I correcting that.
Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, that's that's true. For the most part. You
can do anything in New York and somebody will relate
to it. Yeah, but it's tough though as well. I mean,
a lot of the clubs in New York that you play,
it's you know, it's the lot of them ask you
how many people you bring in? You know, that kind
of thing, and it's just like, well, I'm just trying
to do this thing, man, I mean I'm not I'm
too busy. I'm not responsible for getting people through the door.
And a lot of the clubs really have to start
getting people in the old fashioned way, you know, when
people went to clubs and bars and stuff and uh,
you know, whoever was playing was playing. You know, now
they want you to be the marketer too, and it's
just like, well, you know, wow, too many things do
you know. So yeah, it can be tough too, but
you can do whatever you want to New York and
let's see how it goes, you know.
Speaker 1: Basically, yeah, do you still perform live? Do you perform
live in Cleveland?
Speaker 2: My last show was last November. Actually, now I haven't
really been performing here. It's probably even tougher here because
Cleveland's it's mostly cover cover bands and tribute bands and
and band and if you're original, there's less places and
they really want bands here. Right now, I'm more of
a solo artist or perform as a duo, maybe with
a percussionist or something. So it's been tough here. So
I really started focusing on the recording. That's what I'm
doing now. I'm really late focused on the recording because
when you at a certain point, if an artist hast
you know, two, three, four albums in his head, I mean,
you know, he's really got to buckle down and get
to work. You know, he's you know this, this performing
is great for the ego, but I mean, what what
what corporeal thing do you have to hold on to you?
It's really the recordings, you know.
Speaker 1: Right right? Has your sound changed over the years? I
assume it has I assume it's changed and evolved.
Speaker 2: Oh, definitely. A few years ago I founded a prog
band in New York City called Arcta, and uh we were,
you know, just hard hardcore prague, you know, yeah, performing,
and uh so I decided to come out of the
dry ice and the flog a little bit and warm
up a little bit, and then I got I got
to worry and now more like you know, the the
SiZ pop, the prog pop, the art pop, uh, whatever
you want to call it. Maybe a little bit avant
guardev an avant garde, a clue, you know, whatever you
want to call it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but there's that there's a term too that people
use a lot, experimental indie, which is almost kind of
a catch all for anything that's for anything that's unusual
that you wouldn't hear on commercial radio. But you don't
you don't really know what to call it. But but yeah,
I mean it's always hard to label these things, which
I think is a good thing when you're when you're
doing something that is hard to label because it's, like
I said, it's something that uh that is unique. Has
it Has that always been important to you to do
something that's unusual or have you ever played in in
just kind of a standard rock band or has it
always been your, uh, your goal to do something that's
that's outside of the mainstream consciously.
Speaker 2: No, I think it maybe comes from, you know, listening
to all those bands and having an influence, being influenced
by all those bands, but not really listening to a
lot of music. I mean, when you're busy with your
own music all day. Yeah, by five o'clock, you don't
want to hear anymore music when it hurts to hear music, yeah, realistically, Yeah,
And so I think just naturally morphs into your own
sound that way, rather than you know, well I'm gonna
I mean, of course, just some times it's like I
want to do something different here, and you know, sometimes
it works, sometimes it doesn't. But I think it just
naturally evolves, you know, that's the best way. Anyway.
Speaker 1: You mentioned too when you were in New York, so
you would use a lot of props during your show.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, Like if you look at the the the
cover of the album Performical, there's three series of pictures there.
I'm actually removing a space helmet that I used to
come out in a space helmet and I would stand
there and then slowly move my arms in the position
and slowly remove the helmet and just stand there for
a minute. And you know, that was just one of
the props the Society's game, I think you played before.
I'd come out in just a little thing, a little
accent to you know, help interpret the song. I would
come out in a captain's hat, you know. Sometimes it
wasn't I don't really like full to get into full costume,
you know, changes, I think it's a bit much. But
you can use little things and sometimes you can throw on,
you know, a little half a costume, you know, to
help help interpret the piece.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I'm looking at the I'm looking at the
cover right now actually for Perfromical, so I can see
what you're talking about with removing the helmet. And yeah,
that's cool personally, I love that kind of thing. I love,
uh seeing theatrics and and uh oh yeah. Yeah. Are
there any videos on YouTube of you performing live?
Speaker 2: There? There's a couple few. They're a little bit scattered,
but yeah, there's a couple of things out there. I
think there's one from the the old Metropolitan Room. Yeah,
it's more of a cabaret jazz place, So I think
I was one of the few rock artists that was
allowed to play there. Oh no kidding, Yeah, and there
was a couple other they're scattered though the videos though.
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh okay, I'll have to look for those. I'm
actually very curious to see you play live. Would you
have you mentioned working with other musicians on recording when
you when you would play live in New York, for example,
did you have other musicians join you there or because
I would imagine this, there's probably some a bit of
a barrier there, right, because it's not like like a
singer songwriter who's just getting on stage with a guitar.
There's a lot of flexibility there to have other musicians
join him or her and it you know, you can
make it work. But I would imagine for what you do,
that's that's probably a lot more challenging. Or maybe not.
Speaker 2: It can be challenging because getting people's difficult and people's
availabilities are different, so they might not be a lot
of chances for rehearsal time. But I would try to
use musicians whenever I could. I go out with a
bass player, I go out with a drummer. A couple
of times went out with a drummer and a guitar player.
You know, just depends, you know. You know, people say, well,
you know, put a band together and be in a band.
I mean, you know, I don't know. Sometimes people realize
how hard it is to have five people together and
throwing their hat into the ring, you know, being all
in and going to show up somewhere and here and there,
and you know it's not gonna last very long with
people's you know, needs and availabilities and what they have
to be responsible for and committed to, you know, paying
the rent and all that. You know, very difficult.
Speaker 1: It is challenging, I know from my own experience playing
in bands, and we had I wish I could remember
who said it. We had a guest on the show
once who said, being in a band, if you're in
a five piece band, it's like being in a relationship
with four other people at once who are all in
a relationship with four other people at the same time,
and it's it can be very very challenging. And there
is a certain freedom that I've never experienced myself. I
only ever played in bands. I never did a solo thing.
But there is a certain freedom that comes with sort
of being the captain of your own ship where you
don't have to depend on anybody else. You know, you
can do it all yourself. And and uh so that's
you know, that must be nice and and so I
I understand, I understand why you feel that way about
you know, the challenges of playing in a band, and
you know, maybe it's not necessarily worth it. But again
also too, what you're doing is is so unusual and unique?
What is that by the way, that's that tracks Society's
game that we opened with, Is there is there a meaning?
Is there a specific message with the lyrics to that.
Speaker 2: A meaning? Well, it didn't, Bob Dylan say once I
just wrote it. I don't know what it's about. I
guess it's just about society. I mean, I think the
late the late two thousands, I was going to a
lot of society parties in New York City and yeah,
and then when the economies we had the different economy crashes,
the real estate and then the stock the tech bubble crash,
and then that all kind of died out. So it
was kind of thinking about it, like hmm, you know
that was that was interesting. It was an interesting time
in the city. It's probably all come back now now.
But now I was thinking, you know, me, you know,
rubbing elbows with a lot of like movers and shakers
and royalty celebrities, artists, uh, you know, everybody, and uh,
in a way it was kind of cool. It was
kind of like a mini Studio fifty four in a
way because I mean, here I was. I was just
a broken artist, you know, but everybody sort of accepted you.
But I did see lines and limitations, I mean, you know,
and privilege, a lot of privilege and talking about the
kind of privilege that this uh comes with something that's green,
you know. And uh, there's you know, society, uh boundaries
and I want to I want to say rules, but
that's probably the wrong word. But you know, so it
you know, it has it's had sort of a meaning
that uh loosely defines the the upper echelon society in
the East Coast there. Yeah, I would say, yeah, and
then part of it's kind of interpretive.
Speaker 1: Sure, well, ultimately, I mean that really is the point, right,
you know, music or any kind of art, it's it's
really about what it means to the individual who is
enjoying that that art, and up to their interpretation. It's
it's all subjective, and I've always found it a little
disappointing when, you know, if I listen to a song
and it means something specific to me, and then I
talk to somebody or I read an interview or an
article where the musician who wrote it talks about what
it's about, and it turns out to be something completely
different than what I interpreted it. As you know, I
almost don't want to know in that case, you know
what I mean, because I want it to mean what
it's supposed to mean to me, and that's entirely subjective.
So I think there's value in creating art that can
ultimately be interpreted anyway, or in this case, anyway the
listener wants to interpret it. So I get what you're saying.
I definitely, I definitely get that.
Speaker 2: Well. I'm actually a big fan of that leaving room
for interpretation because yeah, like for example, right now, I'm
working on an opus or a piece that I wrote
a lot of it back in the nineteen eighties and
never did anything with it, and that's going to probably
be my next project. Words and where you could call
it like almost like a rock opera or a something
or a concept album, okay, And but the storylines is
going to be somewhat interpretive, because you know, the last
thing you want is people rolling their eyes. Where there's
a tight knit storyline or rock opera or something, it's
just ridiculous story I don't even know if the author
knows what it means anymore. By the end of it,
it's just like, oh, brother, you know, I don't want
to be like that, right, I want you want some
sort of structure there, but you don't want to be
go overboard.
Speaker 1: Right understood? Understood? Are you Are you already working on
new material actively? Because you strike me as someone who
probably has a lot of ideas.
Speaker 2: Well. That that's the thing. I mean, I still have
a couple of albums in my head, my solo stuff,
and then I got this project that I just talked about,
the Cuyahoga projects. So it's like, I don't sit around
being myself up about if I'm I'm not being creative
enough when you have a backlog of so much material
that you haven't even recorded, you know, So that's actually
a good place to be for an artist too.
Speaker 1: Well, I was gonna say, it's actually a good problem.
Speaker 2: To have right, It kind of is, because if without it,
I think I would be sitting around beating myself up
over lack of ideas and not being creative enough and
just racking my head for ideas.
Speaker 1: Right right, Yeah, no doubt I'd be.
Speaker 2: My advice to any artists, you know, just build up
a backlog and you know, save your sanity.
Speaker 1: Right Exactly? Do these songs, by the way, do they
end up at the end of the process, Do they
ever end up drastically different from what your initial idea
was because you're again with your music, it's it's unique,
and there seems to be a lot of I assume
there's a lot of room for experimentation as you're recording them.
I mean, do they ever end up do you ever
end up with a finished product where you go, Wow,
that's completely different than what I originally envisioned this particular
piece to sound like?
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, very much so. A lot of it A
lot of times not not not not conceptually or not lyrically,
because the lyrics, you know, stay the same and they
say the same thing. But I'm all often surprised how
songs change stylistically and sonically and audio le if that
was the word mostly from the instruments that happens to me.
It was like the other day, I was recording a
song for a future album called Japantown and it's about
it a place in San Francisco when I lived out there,
and when I went to add the guitar parts, I
started getting all these new ideas and I couldn't believe
how drastically it changed, especially the ending of the song. Yeah,
you know, but that was a good thing though. But
you never know until it's like a painting. You really
never know until you're done and you stand back and
you look at it say oh wow, I'm seeing all
this now and this and I didn't know come out
like that, and uh so, yeah, it's a process, absolutely. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I've heard Jenny say that. You know, she's a painter,
and I've heard her say, you know, when a painting
is done, or she she feels it's done, she'll say,
this isn't what I this isn't what I intended it
to be when I started it, or I didn't think
this is what it was going to look like. But
but it's done. Here it is, you know. But that's
kind of the adventure of it, right, creating whether it's
painting or music, any kind of art. When it when
it ends up, there is something kind of cool about
that when it ends up being something different than what
you had originally intended. As long as it is in
a good way, as long as it's something that you're
happy with, that's kind of the adventure of creating.
Speaker 2: I think, well, yeah, as long as you're happy with that, sure,
that's the key. There's there's some times who have recorded
stuff that I was like, I didn't think it would
come out sounding like that. I want to hear what
I heard in my head. You know, right, this is
a this is a disaster, you know right, Yeah, that
that happens too.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, oh yeah, And that's that's not such a
great feeling when you get to the end of it
and you go, oh, I wish I'd been able to
actually play you know, what I had imagined or you know, yeah,
and I've certainly had that happen where it's like, jeez,
I had this great idea, but I can't seem to
figure out how to translate it into actual actual music.
Speaker 2: There were there were two cover songs on the album. Also,
I wanted to mention that they came out as some
of the best songs on the album. Really well, So
I have one song.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, go ahead, go ahead, Oh no, go ahead,
Tom finish her. I thought, I'm curious, Well, this.
Speaker 2: Could be a long thought. That's why I asked you
that's okay. Well, the one song I want to be
with You Tonight. That was a song by a Cleveland
band called Lipstick back in the Day, back in the
nineteen eighties. I mean, you couldn't go out to a
club and not see that group. You know, they were
playing everywhere, and that song always kind of stuck in
my head. It was a good song, and I think
they released it. I think it charted a little bit
on Billboard. I'm not sure I think it did. But
I was sitting around the studio one day just playing
some stuff and wondering how certain things would sound, and
I was like, I wonder if I could, you know,
learn a little part of that song. And I when
I