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Speaker 1: That's like the worst phone connection ever. Tom, are you

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there younger? Okay, for some reason, there's like this, uh

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strange sound in the background, but I think we can

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live with it. Well, at least we can hear each other.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know what that would be, but yeah.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. Do you hear that? Do you hear

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like a buzzing in the background, Well.

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Speaker 2: That could be just the airflow, but that's down in

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the basement. I mean, I'm surprised it's traveling that far.

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I'm on the first first floor.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's all right, though, we can hear you. You're

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you're nice and you're coming through nice and clear. So

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uh so that's that's what matters.

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Speaker 2: Shut it off. I can shut it off if you

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give me a second.

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Speaker 1: Okay, well, okay, no problem if you are just joining us.

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Tom Modern is calling in because the skype thing did

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not work out. But uh, actually I really like that

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song Toxic Man. What Tom does, if you are listening,

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is unconventional. He's very unique. His music is a unique.

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So I'm quite curious to speak with him. But he's

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going to go and try to shut off whatever is

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causing that sounds like angry bees.

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Speaker 2: Okay, this should be better, all right.

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Speaker 1: Tom, Hey, so, how do you describe your music? I'm

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really curious let's start there, because what you're doing, and

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obviously I'm not the only one to say this to you,

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what you're doing is very unique. I cannot think of

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anyone who I mean, there might be some influences there

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that we can talk about, but I haven't heard anyone

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who sounds quite like you. So I'm really curious. How

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do you describe your music to someone who's never heard it.

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Speaker 2: I would say it's a galectic. Its influenced by a

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lot of different artists, and it's you know, it's organic

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in the sense that I like to play a lot

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of different instruments. But I would probably it's been tough

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to categorize, but I would at times I would call

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it art pop or post wave, yeah, or prog pop,

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some prog influences there. It's difficult though. They don't have

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the right categories for artists these days that they really

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need a few more.

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Speaker 1: You mentioned you play multiple instruments. Do you play everything

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on these tracks? Is that all you.

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Speaker 2: On some of the tracks? Yes, I've played everything, but

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there were four or five guest musicians on the on

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the album, I try to use as many people as

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I can. It's just you know, it's sometimes it's tough

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getting people and because I uh, I grew up playing

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guitar and but I always had a piano and a

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drum machine in my house, so it was sort of

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natural too. Uh, just uh learn those instruments a little

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bit as well.

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Speaker 1: Sure, sure, yeah, so it's coming handy, yeah yeah. Uh.

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The album is called Now, this is one of those words.

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I don't know if I can say it correctly on

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the first tryout. I will try performical. Am I saying

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that correctly?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? That's correct, yeah, performical?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, performical. Is that a real word or is that

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your word?

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Speaker 2: It's a made up word? Just I don't know. It

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came to me one day and it was that said,

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you know that that's the album, that's the title performical. Well,

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I think it comes go ahead.

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Speaker 1: No, no, I was just going to ask you what

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does it mean? I mean, obviously it's a made up word,

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but what does it mean to you?

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Speaker 2: I think it came from, uh, sort of an aberration

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from my performing. I performed in New York for many

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years and I tended tended to be somewhat theatrical, and

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I would use props and costumes to help interpret the music.

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And uh, and that just you know, just I don't know,

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somehow joined into the word uh you know, well I

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don't want word that would be end with c L

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maybe but al festival or you know, so just naturally

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sort of adapted to Perfromicle.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and you've got this is obviously a full

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length album. What went into the decision to release us

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as a full length And I asked that because and

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this is kind of one of those questions I ask anybody,

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because I'm always curious. We live in a time, as

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you know, where there are so many different ways that

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you can release music, different strategies. Some artists only release singles,

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some release EPs, Some will release a series of singles

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that eventually become an album. But was it important to

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you to release Perfromical as an album? Is there is

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there some sort of a cohesive theme running throughout these

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songs or is it just or did it just seem

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natural to do it this way?

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Speaker 2: No, there was really no cohesive theme. I mean, all

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the songs are very different if you look at from

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the outside. Yeah, but it became clear to me to

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be taken serious as a serious artist, you really have

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to release an album. I mean I was just releasing

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singles for a while and that just wasn't cutting it.

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And I looked around at all the other artists who

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are working, and they're not doing that, They're releasing albums.

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So I was like, yeah, that's what I have to do.

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And so I pulled back and all the other stuff

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and just sank my energy into well. This release and

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you know, hoping for the best, released in September of

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this year, and I actually tried releasing it once before,

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but I wasn't happy with some of the recordings, and

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so I re recorded some of the tracks because I

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was just learning digital recording years ago. Yeah, so along

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with a lot of other people, and so that's the

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way I did it, yeah up till now.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Do you where do you record? Do you record

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at home? I mean it sounds like it's it's very

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it sounds like this is very di I wy do

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you do all of that yourself?

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, definitely. Part of it was recorded in New York.

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Part of it was recorded it's uh Samdpiper Studios here

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in Cleveland and part of it was recorded in Los

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Angeles because a couple of the musicians were out there,

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so they were turning in remote pieces. Uh geez. I

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think it started though, I was recording in a storage

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unit in New York, New York City. Yeah, it wasn't

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It wasn't ideal, but it's part of it was a

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part of it got done there.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So so now you're so are you

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from New York originally?

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Speaker 2: No, from Cleveland originally, but I born and raised, but

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I lived in New York about it was about twenty

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eight years.

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Speaker 1: Oh okay, No, that's a long time in terms of

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the music scene. And because again, you're doing something that's unusual.

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Like I said, I can't think of anyone who sounds

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quite like you. What was it like to do what

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you do in New York? I assume that that if

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there's anywhere in the country where you can do pretty

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much just about anything you can think of musically, and

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you're going to find some sort of an audience, right,

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people are going to be interested. I would think that

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New York City would be kind of the best place

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to do something that is unusual and still be accepted

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and have people want to participate in it and be

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interested in it. Is my instinct correct about that. And

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that's not to suggest that you don't have that in Cleveland,

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but I assume in New York that's where you really

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have that the most. Where you can you can create

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whatever you want to and there's going to be some

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sort of audience for it. Am I am I correcting that.

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Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, that's that's true. For the most part. You

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can do anything in New York and somebody will relate

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to it. Yeah, but it's tough though as well. I mean,

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a lot of the clubs in New York that you play,

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it's you know, it's the lot of them ask you

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how many people you bring in? You know, that kind

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of thing, and it's just like, well, I'm just trying

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to do this thing, man, I mean I'm not I'm

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too busy. I'm not responsible for getting people through the door.

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And a lot of the clubs really have to start

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getting people in the old fashioned way, you know, when

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people went to clubs and bars and stuff and uh,

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you know, whoever was playing was playing. You know, now

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they want you to be the marketer too, and it's

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just like, well, you know, wow, too many things do

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you know. So yeah, it can be tough too, but

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you can do whatever you want to New York and

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let's see how it goes, you know.

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Speaker 1: Basically, yeah, do you still perform live? Do you perform

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live in Cleveland?

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Speaker 2: My last show was last November. Actually, now I haven't

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really been performing here. It's probably even tougher here because

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Cleveland's it's mostly cover cover bands and tribute bands and

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and band and if you're original, there's less places and

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they really want bands here. Right now, I'm more of

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a solo artist or perform as a duo, maybe with

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a percussionist or something. So it's been tough here. So

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I really started focusing on the recording. That's what I'm

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doing now. I'm really late focused on the recording because

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when you at a certain point, if an artist hast

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you know, two, three, four albums in his head, I mean,

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you know, he's really got to buckle down and get

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to work. You know, he's you know this, this performing

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is great for the ego, but I mean, what what

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what corporeal thing do you have to hold on to you?

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It's really the recordings, you know.

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Speaker 1: Right right? Has your sound changed over the years? I

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assume it has I assume it's changed and evolved.

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Speaker 2: Oh, definitely. A few years ago I founded a prog

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band in New York City called Arcta, and uh we were,

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you know, just hard hardcore prague, you know, yeah, performing,

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and uh so I decided to come out of the

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dry ice and the flog a little bit and warm

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up a little bit, and then I got I got

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to worry and now more like you know, the the

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SiZ pop, the prog pop, the art pop, uh, whatever

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you want to call it. Maybe a little bit avant

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guardev an avant garde, a clue, you know, whatever you

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want to call it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but there's that there's a term too that people

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use a lot, experimental indie, which is almost kind of

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a catch all for anything that's for anything that's unusual

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that you wouldn't hear on commercial radio. But you don't

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you don't really know what to call it. But but yeah,

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I mean it's always hard to label these things, which

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I think is a good thing when you're when you're

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doing something that is hard to label because it's, like

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I said, it's something that uh that is unique. Has

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it Has that always been important to you to do

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something that's unusual or have you ever played in in

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just kind of a standard rock band or has it

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always been your, uh, your goal to do something that's

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that's outside of the mainstream consciously.

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Speaker 2: No, I think it maybe comes from, you know, listening

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to all those bands and having an influence, being influenced

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by all those bands, but not really listening to a

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lot of music. I mean, when you're busy with your

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own music all day. Yeah, by five o'clock, you don't

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want to hear anymore music when it hurts to hear music, yeah, realistically, Yeah,

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And so I think just naturally morphs into your own

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sound that way, rather than you know, well I'm gonna

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I mean, of course, just some times it's like I

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want to do something different here, and you know, sometimes

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it works, sometimes it doesn't. But I think it just

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naturally evolves, you know, that's the best way. Anyway.

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Speaker 1: You mentioned too when you were in New York, so

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you would use a lot of props during your show.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, Like if you look at the the the

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cover of the album Performical, there's three series of pictures there.

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I'm actually removing a space helmet that I used to

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come out in a space helmet and I would stand

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there and then slowly move my arms in the position

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and slowly remove the helmet and just stand there for

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a minute. And you know, that was just one of

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the props the Society's game, I think you played before.

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I'd come out in just a little thing, a little

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accent to you know, help interpret the song. I would

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come out in a captain's hat, you know. Sometimes it

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wasn't I don't really like full to get into full costume,

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you know, changes, I think it's a bit much. But

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you can use little things and sometimes you can throw on,

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you know, a little half a costume, you know, to

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help help interpret the piece.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I'm looking at the I'm looking at the

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cover right now actually for Perfromical, so I can see

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what you're talking about with removing the helmet. And yeah,

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that's cool personally, I love that kind of thing. I love,

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uh seeing theatrics and and uh oh yeah. Yeah. Are

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there any videos on YouTube of you performing live?

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Speaker 2: There? There's a couple few. They're a little bit scattered,

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but yeah, there's a couple of things out there. I

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think there's one from the the old Metropolitan Room. Yeah,

246
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it's more of a cabaret jazz place, So I think

247
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I was one of the few rock artists that was

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allowed to play there. Oh no kidding, Yeah, and there

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was a couple other they're scattered though the videos though.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, oh okay, I'll have to look for those. I'm

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actually very curious to see you play live. Would you

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have you mentioned working with other musicians on recording when

253
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you when you would play live in New York, for example,

254
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did you have other musicians join you there or because

255
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I would imagine this, there's probably some a bit of

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a barrier there, right, because it's not like like a

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singer songwriter who's just getting on stage with a guitar.

258
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There's a lot of flexibility there to have other musicians

259
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join him or her and it you know, you can

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make it work. But I would imagine for what you do,

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that's that's probably a lot more challenging. Or maybe not.

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Speaker 2: It can be challenging because getting people's difficult and people's

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availabilities are different, so they might not be a lot

264
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of chances for rehearsal time. But I would try to

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use musicians whenever I could. I go out with a

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bass player, I go out with a drummer. A couple

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of times went out with a drummer and a guitar player.

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You know, just depends, you know. You know, people say, well,

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you know, put a band together and be in a band.

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I mean, you know, I don't know. Sometimes people realize

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how hard it is to have five people together and

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throwing their hat into the ring, you know, being all

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in and going to show up somewhere and here and there,

274
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and you know it's not gonna last very long with

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people's you know, needs and availabilities and what they have

276
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to be responsible for and committed to, you know, paying

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the rent and all that. You know, very difficult.

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Speaker 1: It is challenging, I know from my own experience playing

279
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in bands, and we had I wish I could remember

280
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who said it. We had a guest on the show

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once who said, being in a band, if you're in

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a five piece band, it's like being in a relationship

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with four other people at once who are all in

284
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a relationship with four other people at the same time,

285
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and it's it can be very very challenging. And there

286
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is a certain freedom that I've never experienced myself. I

287
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only ever played in bands. I never did a solo thing.

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But there is a certain freedom that comes with sort

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of being the captain of your own ship where you

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don't have to depend on anybody else. You know, you

291
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can do it all yourself. And and uh so that's

292
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you know, that must be nice and and so I

293
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I understand, I understand why you feel that way about

294
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you know, the challenges of playing in a band, and

295
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you know, maybe it's not necessarily worth it. But again

296
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also too, what you're doing is is so unusual and unique?

297
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What is that by the way, that's that tracks Society's

298
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game that we opened with, Is there is there a meaning?

299
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Is there a specific message with the lyrics to that.

300
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Speaker 2: A meaning? Well, it didn't, Bob Dylan say once I

301
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just wrote it. I don't know what it's about. I

302
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guess it's just about society. I mean, I think the

303
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late the late two thousands, I was going to a

304
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lot of society parties in New York City and yeah,

305
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and then when the economies we had the different economy crashes,

306
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the real estate and then the stock the tech bubble crash,

307
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and then that all kind of died out. So it

308
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was kind of thinking about it, like hmm, you know

309
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that was that was interesting. It was an interesting time

310
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in the city. It's probably all come back now now.

311
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But now I was thinking, you know, me, you know,

312
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rubbing elbows with a lot of like movers and shakers

313
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and royalty celebrities, artists, uh, you know, everybody, and uh,

314
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in a way it was kind of cool. It was

315
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kind of like a mini Studio fifty four in a

316
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way because I mean, here I was. I was just

317
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a broken artist, you know, but everybody sort of accepted you.

318
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But I did see lines and limitations, I mean, you know,

319
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and privilege, a lot of privilege and talking about the

320
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kind of privilege that this uh comes with something that's green,

321
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you know. And uh, there's you know, society, uh boundaries

322
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and I want to I want to say rules, but

323
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that's probably the wrong word. But you know, so it

324
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you know, it has it's had sort of a meaning

325
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that uh loosely defines the the upper echelon society in

326
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the East Coast there. Yeah, I would say, yeah, and

327
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then part of it's kind of interpretive.

328
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Speaker 1: Sure, well, ultimately, I mean that really is the point, right,

329
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you know, music or any kind of art, it's it's

330
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really about what it means to the individual who is

331
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enjoying that that art, and up to their interpretation. It's

332
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it's all subjective, and I've always found it a little

333
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disappointing when, you know, if I listen to a song

334
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and it means something specific to me, and then I

335
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talk to somebody or I read an interview or an

336
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article where the musician who wrote it talks about what

337
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it's about, and it turns out to be something completely

338
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different than what I interpreted it. As you know, I

339
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almost don't want to know in that case, you know

340
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what I mean, because I want it to mean what

341
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it's supposed to mean to me, and that's entirely subjective.

342
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So I think there's value in creating art that can

343
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ultimately be interpreted anyway, or in this case, anyway the

344
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listener wants to interpret it. So I get what you're saying.

345
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I definitely, I definitely get that.

346
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Speaker 2: Well. I'm actually a big fan of that leaving room

347
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for interpretation because yeah, like for example, right now, I'm

348
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working on an opus or a piece that I wrote

349
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a lot of it back in the nineteen eighties and

350
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never did anything with it, and that's going to probably

351
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be my next project. Words and where you could call

352
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it like almost like a rock opera or a something

353
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or a concept album, okay, And but the storylines is

354
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going to be somewhat interpretive, because you know, the last

355
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thing you want is people rolling their eyes. Where there's

356
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a tight knit storyline or rock opera or something, it's

357
00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:04,079
just ridiculous story I don't even know if the author

358
00:23:04,839 --> 00:23:07,640
knows what it means anymore. By the end of it,

359
00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:09,680
it's just like, oh, brother, you know, I don't want

360
00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:13,240
to be like that, right, I want you want some

361
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sort of structure there, but you don't want to be

362
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go overboard.

363
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Speaker 1: Right understood? Understood? Are you Are you already working on

364
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new material actively? Because you strike me as someone who

365
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probably has a lot of ideas.

366
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Speaker 2: Well. That that's the thing. I mean, I still have

367
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a couple of albums in my head, my solo stuff,

368
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and then I got this project that I just talked about,

369
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the Cuyahoga projects. So it's like, I don't sit around

370
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being myself up about if I'm I'm not being creative

371
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enough when you have a backlog of so much material

372
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that you haven't even recorded, you know, So that's actually

373
00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:04,119
a good place to be for an artist too.

374
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Speaker 1: Well, I was gonna say, it's actually a good problem.

375
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Speaker 2: To have right, It kind of is, because if without it,

376
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I think I would be sitting around beating myself up

377
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over lack of ideas and not being creative enough and

378
00:24:16,759 --> 00:24:19,000
just racking my head for ideas.

379
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Speaker 1: Right right, Yeah, no doubt I'd be.

380
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Speaker 2: My advice to any artists, you know, just build up

381
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a backlog and you know, save your sanity.

382
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Speaker 1: Right Exactly? Do these songs, by the way, do they

383
00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:37,240
end up at the end of the process, Do they

384
00:24:37,279 --> 00:24:40,960
ever end up drastically different from what your initial idea

385
00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:44,480
was because you're again with your music, it's it's unique,

386
00:24:44,519 --> 00:24:46,680
and there seems to be a lot of I assume

387
00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:50,519
there's a lot of room for experimentation as you're recording them.

388
00:24:50,559 --> 00:24:52,440
I mean, do they ever end up do you ever

389
00:24:52,519 --> 00:24:54,400
end up with a finished product where you go, Wow,

390
00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:57,839
that's completely different than what I originally envisioned this particular

391
00:24:57,880 --> 00:24:59,039
piece to sound like?

392
00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:06,119
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, very much so. A lot of it A

393
00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:10,480
lot of times not not not not conceptually or not lyrically,

394
00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:15,519
because the lyrics, you know, stay the same and they

395
00:25:15,519 --> 00:25:20,319
say the same thing. But I'm all often surprised how

396
00:25:21,079 --> 00:25:26,680
songs change stylistically and sonically and audio le if that

397
00:25:26,799 --> 00:25:30,680
was the word mostly from the instruments that happens to me.

398
00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:32,400
It was like the other day, I was recording a

399
00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:40,559
song for a future album called Japantown and it's about

400
00:25:40,599 --> 00:25:44,440
it a place in San Francisco when I lived out there,

401
00:25:44,559 --> 00:25:49,599
and when I went to add the guitar parts, I

402
00:25:49,839 --> 00:25:52,759
started getting all these new ideas and I couldn't believe

403
00:25:52,759 --> 00:25:56,799
how drastically it changed, especially the ending of the song. Yeah,

404
00:25:56,880 --> 00:25:58,920
you know, but that was a good thing though. But

405
00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:01,759
you never know until it's like a painting. You really

406
00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:05,599
never know until you're done and you stand back and

407
00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:08,200
you look at it say oh wow, I'm seeing all

408
00:26:08,279 --> 00:26:10,839
this now and this and I didn't know come out

409
00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:17,559
like that, and uh so, yeah, it's a process, absolutely. Yeah.

410
00:26:17,559 --> 00:26:19,519
Speaker 1: I've heard Jenny say that. You know, she's a painter,

411
00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:22,279
and I've heard her say, you know, when a painting

412
00:26:22,319 --> 00:26:24,960
is done, or she she feels it's done, she'll say,

413
00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:27,519
this isn't what I this isn't what I intended it

414
00:26:27,559 --> 00:26:29,160
to be when I started it, or I didn't think

415
00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:31,000
this is what it was going to look like. But

416
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:33,079
but it's done. Here it is, you know. But that's

417
00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:35,200
kind of the adventure of it, right, creating whether it's

418
00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:38,839
painting or music, any kind of art. When it when

419
00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:40,920
it ends up, there is something kind of cool about

420
00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:43,400
that when it ends up being something different than what

421
00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:46,240
you had originally intended. As long as it is in

422
00:26:46,279 --> 00:26:48,160
a good way, as long as it's something that you're

423
00:26:48,319 --> 00:26:51,759
happy with, that's kind of the adventure of creating.

424
00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:57,119
Speaker 2: I think, well, yeah, as long as you're happy with that, sure,

425
00:26:57,160 --> 00:26:59,960
that's the key. There's there's some times who have recorded

426
00:27:00,839 --> 00:27:04,160
stuff that I was like, I didn't think it would

427
00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:06,880
come out sounding like that. I want to hear what

428
00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:09,839
I heard in my head. You know, right, this is

429
00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:13,960
a this is a disaster, you know right, Yeah, that

430
00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:15,079
that happens too.

431
00:27:15,079 --> 00:27:17,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, oh yeah, And that's that's not such a

432
00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:19,000
great feeling when you get to the end of it

433
00:27:19,039 --> 00:27:20,359
and you go, oh, I wish I'd been able to

434
00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:26,200
actually play you know, what I had imagined or you know, yeah,

435
00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:28,599
and I've certainly had that happen where it's like, jeez,

436
00:27:28,599 --> 00:27:30,559
I had this great idea, but I can't seem to

437
00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:34,720
figure out how to translate it into actual actual music.

438
00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:38,400
Speaker 2: There were there were two cover songs on the album. Also,

439
00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:42,119
I wanted to mention that they came out as some

440
00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:46,000
of the best songs on the album. Really well, So

441
00:27:46,079 --> 00:27:47,440
I have one song.

442
00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:50,279
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, go ahead, go ahead, Oh no, go ahead,

443
00:27:50,279 --> 00:27:54,039
Tom finish her. I thought, I'm curious, Well, this.

444
00:27:54,079 --> 00:27:56,279
Speaker 2: Could be a long thought. That's why I asked you

445
00:27:56,519 --> 00:28:02,799
that's okay. Well, the one song I want to be

446
00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:08,440
with You Tonight. That was a song by a Cleveland

447
00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:12,839
band called Lipstick back in the Day, back in the

448
00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:16,480
nineteen eighties. I mean, you couldn't go out to a

449
00:28:16,519 --> 00:28:19,200
club and not see that group. You know, they were

450
00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:23,599
playing everywhere, and that song always kind of stuck in

451
00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:25,680
my head. It was a good song, and I think

452
00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:28,240
they released it. I think it charted a little bit

453
00:28:28,279 --> 00:28:32,079
on Billboard. I'm not sure I think it did. But

454
00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:37,640
I was sitting around the studio one day just playing

455
00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:41,559
some stuff and wondering how certain things would sound, and

456
00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:42,839
I was like, I wonder if I could, you know,

457
00:28:43,039 --> 00:28:46,680
learn a little part of that song. And I when

458
00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:46,839
I