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Speaker 1: All right, well, welcome to the Paul Junior Podcast. Today,

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I have Mark Provenzano from Never Ending Neon, and uh

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Mark is is quite an artist. He's done all the

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neon in my shop, pretty much everything that that you

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see when I post these little videos that go around

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the shop, the Hudson sign, the service sign, and probably

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my favorite sign of all this this Pegasus horse, which

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is extremely rare and unusual.

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Speaker 2: Welcome Mark, Thanks, Paul. I'm glad to be here. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So let me tell you, man, it's been really interesting

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working with you. I look through the years of building motorcycles,

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I'm always looking for people who have unique skill sets,

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and unquestionably neon is a unique skill set. Bending it,

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the nuances to it, tracing it, knowing the skill of

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it is very difficult thing, as I understand, to master.

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Speaker 2: I've never tried it. But we've talked about this.

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Speaker 1: And uh so I'm always looking out there for trades

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that are kind of dying, like there's no one coming

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in behind you. So tell me a little bit about

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like your background it is, uh, it is dying.

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Speaker 3: When I got into neon, I guess nineteen eighty three.

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I learned from three masters. I got very lucky and

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the guy had taught me.

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Speaker 2: He uh.

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Speaker 3: I wasn't sure if I wanted to do neon. And

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then an article came out in the Bergen Record and

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said in the whole country there were only three hundred

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glass blowers.

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Speaker 2: Wow.

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Speaker 3: And I said, let me, let me look into this.

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And when I read about it, I dove into neon

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one hundred percent.

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Speaker 1: Then was it the art or the opportunity?

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Speaker 2: I think it was the art. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I never knew I was an artist until I started

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doing neon.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, because I really can't draw.

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Speaker 1: And so and this guy, he taught you basically everything

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you know.

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Speaker 2: No. I started with the.

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Speaker 3: Dick Ryan up in ten Flying, New Jersey. He had

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a little neon shop in the back of his house

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and I came in there. I think I went to

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school for a year. I mean every I was doing

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two three hours a day for a year.

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Speaker 2: Wow.

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Speaker 3: And even then I was barely good enough to get

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a job. Because when you go into a neon field,

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a lot of kids don't know anything.

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Speaker 2: And when they come in.

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Speaker 3: Your your boss or the new place you're working, they

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want you to have experience already.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 3: The only way to get experience is to get out

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there and right.

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Speaker 1: And that's a common problem even today with any trade.

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It's like, if you know, no one really wants to

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give you a shot, but they want you to have experience.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and then the only way to get experience is

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to get in fires and get there in the trenches

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and fail a lot, to be honest, and that's what

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you have to learn from is keep going on and

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keep going and just learn from your your past.

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Speaker 1: So you kind of came into Neon through necessity, really

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looking at it as an opportunity to have well income.

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Speaker 2: Well, I was.

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Speaker 3: I was in college and I wasn't really sure what

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I wanted to do, and all of a sudden I

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had a summer job working for a sign supply place

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and I got to know the old time glassblower. I'm

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telling you, Dick Ryan and a couple of my friends

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were already going there and they were practicing. They said, Hey,

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come on down, you'll Dick Ryan and you'll teach you.

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And I'm like, I don't know if I want to

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bang glass. And next thing you know, I saw that

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article I told you, and I dove into it one

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hundred percent. And those two guys who got me started

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they actually worked for me.

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Speaker 2: Later on, years later.

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Speaker 1: Really, and you probably had some good glassbenders then, huh.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, my buddy Johnny was as good as I am. Yeah,

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but Arthratis killed him. How long does it take to

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get good?

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Speaker 2: You know what I mean?

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Speaker 1: Because I'll tell you from my perspective, Like when I

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look at it, right, I have a skill set. Right,

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I can't bend glass just yet. Maybe we'll get to that,

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maybe I don't. But then when it comes to you know, welding, grinding, fabricating,

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coming up with ideas approaches, troubleshooting, all that stuff has

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been a special skill set that I have. And I

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know what it took for me to kind of get there,

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at least from a mechanical standpoint. And I started with

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my father when I was geez twelve years old, painting,

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you know, dipping rallings and a big vat of paint,

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sweeping the worst, dirtiest jobs. I did that for years,

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and I worked my way up to on the side,

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I would start practicing welding, and eventually I got good

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at that, and once I was able to master some

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of the start, it is it is and and then

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you know, from there, you know, I got opportunities to

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build some rallyings, make some other stuff, and then I

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became a full time fabricator and that probably took me

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a I don't know, I'd say probably at least a

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year of being around it to get into the bigger

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stuff like rallings and stairs. So what's it take to

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actually become a neon bender.

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Speaker 3: Well, the first job I got was in the biggest,

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one of the biggest wholesale sign shops in the whole area.

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And I was thrown right into the trenches. You know,

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remember the Castle Casino down to Atlantic City. Yeah, fifteen

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foot letters castle.

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Speaker 2: Wow. I had make three sets my first job. I

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looked at that.

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Speaker 3: There's no way, I'm looking at it like a giant,

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like it was Chinese.

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Speaker 2: I was like, how am I going to do this?

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And I was ready to quit.

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Speaker 3: And my buddy John, who worked for me like years later,

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he worked for the Science Apply place, and he had

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delivery there and I'm there, I'm ready to leave, I'm

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ready to walk out.

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Speaker 2: I'm done.

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Speaker 3: And he pulls up to the garage and he sees

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me and he starts laughing and I started laughing, and

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I'm like, and I didn't walk out, So I give

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him credit because I was ready.

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Speaker 2: I said, I'll find something else. What was it? Just?

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Speaker 1: Was it just trying to figure out how to approach

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the job in general, or just the enormity of it.

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Speaker 2: You know, how to approach it?

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Speaker 3: How to Yeah, I had to make a pattern of

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a fifteen foot letter I'm looking at you know when

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I learned.

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Speaker 2: I learned on little tiny letters. I'm like, what do

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I do here? Right?

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Speaker 3: And you know, I've actually noticed you when you were

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building a bike, you had the same look on your face.

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Speaker 1: So you're going, You're going, he could be daunting at times.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you'll just stare at it for an hour and

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go and all of a sudden you'll be like, that's yeah,

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what happened?

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Speaker 1: Okay, because one day it hit me. It's interesting, took

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me like three years of bending, but by that time,

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you already knew how to bend glass. You knew how

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to use the torches and and the forges or well.

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Speaker 3: Neon's a funny thing because after you know, working their year,

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I was not very good, and I'm thinking, am I

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ever going to be good at this? And then you know,

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repetition doing it again and again and again, and one

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day it hit me and I never looked back from

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that moment.

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Speaker 1: So they kept you employed for a year and you

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weren't that good at your job. Basically, really, wow, that's

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a really good thing. I'll tell you why, because I

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think in today's day and age, a lot of people

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will try something for a very short period of time

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and not be able to pick it back up, like,

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not be able to get it. Maybe they're not inclined right,

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and then they just give up. But I think maybe

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to your point, if you hang in there long enough

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and it's something you really want to do, I think

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people are more resilient than they give themselves credit for it.

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I think true people in general can do more than they.

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Speaker 2: Think they can do.

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Speaker 3: You know, yeah, I agree with you there because a

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lot of people I started with. I mean I was

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going to school. There were like fifteen people and only

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three of us came out of that class. Oh really,

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and uh both of them work for me? Was it

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a conventional like class? Like you just like look in

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the paper and it's like, no, you went to where

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the guy's shop was. I knew the guy, okay, because

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I delivered Neon supplies to him for like four or

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five years, so you work for a distributor before you

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learn to bend neon.

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Speaker 1: Oh so that was your That was interesting, So that

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was kind of your.

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Speaker 2: Okay.

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Speaker 3: And if you told me then that I was going

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to be a glass blower thirty years from now, I'd

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be like, no way, really never thought i'd be.

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Speaker 2: A glass blower. So wait a minute.

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Speaker 1: So coming into it, that's interesting because you probably knew

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all the different size tubing, the gases. You probably knew

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the ins and outs of the equipment, not as much

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as you think, because neon's a funny thing. You'll see

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like one of my parts and you'll have no idea

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what it's for, and you go years not even knowing

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what it's for, and all of a sudden you're in

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that sign shop and you see that part that you're

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never being used, and you're.

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Speaker 2: Like, oh, wow, that's interesting. It's a funny thing.

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Speaker 3: How many aspects of this business there are the unbelievable amount.

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Speaker 2: Wow.

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Speaker 1: So walk me through what it is to bend neon

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because I'm super curious, like, what are the stages?

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Speaker 2: Right? What is the process like?

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Speaker 1: And don't leave anything out because I know there's like

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a vacuum, and there's gases.

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Speaker 3: And there's different There are two processes to neon. First the

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fabrication of the tubes and then you've got to process

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the tube and put the gas in. So there are

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two things that you have to do. One can't live

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without the other, okay, so you got to get proficient

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at both of them because you could be the best

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glass blower in the world.

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Speaker 2: If you have a terrible pumping system, it's not gonna do.

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You're not gonna make it. You're not gonna make it.

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Speaker 1: So like, basically, because we've done this here right where

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you took like this service sign here, which we have

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the time lapse and the video coming out. So basically

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you have to what what's the first step.

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Speaker 3: Well, you got to do the design, so you got

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to look at it and figure out how you're gonna

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make it, and you do your pattern. While I'm doing

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my pattern, I'm like, oh, okay, I'll do it this way,

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I'll do it that way. And you're creating a puzzle.

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This is what you're doing, and you got to figure

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out the puzzle. And every Neon sign is a puzzle.

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Like if you go to my my Facebook page, never

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ending Neon. The first page is a Neon motorcycle and

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it's pretty big. It's like five ft long. It took

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me almost a week to figure out how to make it. Really,

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and you got to put all these pieces and make

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them separately and then figure out how to get them

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wall in there.

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Speaker 1: And don't you generally make things backwards the way your

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bends are, so basically you're always working backwards backwards like

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reverse almost like words.

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Speaker 3: I've learned how to read backwards because of it. It's

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pretty interesting. Never thought that, Yeah, because everything I do

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is backwards.

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Speaker 2: Me too, though.

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Speaker 1: That's that's good, that's interesting.

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Speaker 3: So so you got to you got to do that design.

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And once you get your layout and you get it

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old lad, and I have I transfer the I do

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it on tracing paper first, and then I got to

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transfer that to uh. I use a fiberglass like fireproof paper, okay,

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and I transfer everything to that.

241
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Speaker 1: That way, you can lay the hot glass right down

242
00:11:51,399 --> 00:11:54,600
on it and I don't burn a hole in my table, gotcha.

243
00:11:55,320 --> 00:11:58,600
But once you do that, then you got to sit

244
00:11:58,639 --> 00:12:01,320
there and go, okay, figure out how to make it

245
00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:03,000
this way and make it work because a lot of

246
00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:07,759
times I'll start, especially an intricate design. I'll start it

247
00:12:07,759 --> 00:12:11,360
one way and I'll go hmm. In the middle of

248
00:12:11,399 --> 00:12:13,279
doing it, I'll go, well, maybe if I do it

249
00:12:13,320 --> 00:12:17,320
this way, it'll be better. And nine times out of

250
00:12:17,320 --> 00:12:18,399
ten it is better.

251
00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:21,919
Speaker 3: And once you do that and you get good at that,

252
00:12:22,039 --> 00:12:24,919
and you get your puzzle together, you got a whole

253
00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:27,279
vacuum system where you got to You gotta pull a

254
00:12:27,320 --> 00:12:30,360
vacuum in the tube because neon can only work in

255
00:12:30,399 --> 00:12:32,240
an atmosphere by itself.

256
00:12:32,200 --> 00:12:34,919
Speaker 1: So pull vacuum means no oxygen.

257
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Speaker 3: No oxygen, no air, nothing. And I deal with this

258
00:12:39,320 --> 00:12:43,399
thing called the bombarded. Bombard is high voltage. It's got

259
00:12:43,440 --> 00:12:46,360
to get that tube up to five hundred degrees of

260
00:12:46,399 --> 00:12:50,080
the interior temperature. And what that does, It vaporizes all

261
00:12:50,120 --> 00:12:54,080
the impurities inside the tube, okay, and the vacuum pump.

262
00:12:54,799 --> 00:12:58,480
Speaker 2: Pulls out those impurities. And I guess about. You got

263
00:12:58,600 --> 00:13:02,320
to wait about ten minutes and then your tube is.

264
00:13:02,279 --> 00:13:06,360
Speaker 1: Ready because it's pure or it's it has no eminence.

265
00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:10,279
And then you could introduce what what gases do you guys?

266
00:13:10,279 --> 00:13:15,039
Speaker 3: Well, there are several gases they use, but mainly it's

267
00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:18,799
neon gas, which is red right like your Hudson sign.

268
00:13:18,919 --> 00:13:20,759
That is the color of neon gas.

269
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Speaker 2: Is that what this is too? Okay?

270
00:13:22,320 --> 00:13:23,639
Speaker 1: So the horse is neon gas.

271
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Speaker 2: That is the color of neon gas. Okay.

272
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Speaker 1: So that's a clear tube that glows red. That's what

273
00:13:29,440 --> 00:13:30,879
neon gas does, glow red.

274
00:13:31,159 --> 00:13:34,440
Speaker 2: And it's funny. People don't know. Neon is just a nickname.

275
00:13:34,960 --> 00:13:39,000
Its real name is cathode lighting. People don't know that.

276
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What is it?

277
00:13:40,240 --> 00:13:47,399
Speaker 3: Cathode cathode lighting, and that is the general name of it.

278
00:13:47,919 --> 00:13:50,759
Now you have other like when you get colors like

279
00:13:50,799 --> 00:13:54,440
the blue that has argon in it, and argon working

280
00:13:54,480 --> 00:13:59,039
with a little drop of mercury because the mercury when

281
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it vaporizes.

282
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Speaker 2: It brightens up the argun.

283
00:14:02,399 --> 00:14:05,399
Speaker 3: Uh Like, if you don't put mercury in the tube

284
00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:06,799
like that, it'll light dull.

285
00:14:07,000 --> 00:14:09,399
Speaker 1: So like an eye dropper mercury or is it a gas?

286
00:14:09,480 --> 00:14:09,679
Speaker 2: Yeah?

287
00:14:10,799 --> 00:14:15,159
Speaker 3: Really, yeah, you don't realize that. And every fluorescent bulb

288
00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:16,159
has a little drop.

289
00:14:15,919 --> 00:14:18,159
Speaker 2: Of mercury in it too. Really, it's the same.

290
00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:22,639
Speaker 3: Guests they use argon in you know, interior lighting and

291
00:14:22,840 --> 00:14:25,480
roll the lights on the street, which now will become led.

292
00:14:26,639 --> 00:14:31,600
They're trying to oh sorry, sorry, they're trying to eliminate

293
00:14:32,679 --> 00:14:34,080
the old fluorescent bulbs.

294
00:14:34,159 --> 00:14:36,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, so tell me about that, because I'll tell you

295
00:14:36,279 --> 00:14:39,799
I've seen LEDs, you know, through the years building motorcycles.

296
00:14:39,919 --> 00:14:43,919
LEDs have been actually a very good thing in certain cases,

297
00:14:44,039 --> 00:14:46,360
right from lighting and you know, you get up under

298
00:14:46,399 --> 00:14:49,720
the fender, you could really work with light. You could

299
00:14:49,799 --> 00:14:52,799
change them. Now, they do all kinds of things, but

300
00:14:52,919 --> 00:14:57,399
in my opinion, esthetically they do not replace Neon.

301
00:14:57,480 --> 00:14:58,759
Speaker 2: They just don't have.

302
00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:04,879
Speaker 1: The same characteristics, the same aesthetic, right, They just don't

303
00:15:04,919 --> 00:15:08,200
sell like Neon does. Neon is such a unique thing

304
00:15:08,240 --> 00:15:09,519
to me, and like I said, you know, I got

305
00:15:09,559 --> 00:15:11,480
really I probably could have went that route, but I

306
00:15:11,840 --> 00:15:14,000
would have never been able to look at it because

307
00:15:14,279 --> 00:15:17,279
I love what Neon does, the way it glows, the

308
00:15:17,279 --> 00:15:19,200
way it makes you feel, and the way it makes

309
00:15:19,240 --> 00:15:21,240
advertising pop out.

310
00:15:21,399 --> 00:15:21,600
Speaker 2: Well.

311
00:15:23,320 --> 00:15:27,039
Speaker 3: LED light is a directional light. It only goes one way.

312
00:15:28,159 --> 00:15:31,240
Like if you see most signs, it just lights out

313
00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:33,960
out right. Neon is three sixty yeah.

314
00:15:33,799 --> 00:15:36,480
Speaker 1: And I guess that's how you're able to light out

315
00:15:36,519 --> 00:15:38,679
and light back this right here.

316
00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:43,080
Speaker 3: If you had LED, the horse wouldn't light up. It

317
00:15:43,080 --> 00:15:45,919
would just you wouldn't see that interesting. It would be

318
00:15:46,039 --> 00:15:48,519
dark actually, Now let me ask.

319
00:15:48,320 --> 00:15:50,559
Speaker 1: You a question you mentioned earlier. What when in eighty

320
00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:52,320
three would you say there was only how many people

321
00:15:52,399 --> 00:15:55,320
in the country, like three hundred people. Do you think

322
00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:58,120
that number has gone down or do you think it's

323
00:15:58,159 --> 00:15:59,480
maintained about the same.

324
00:15:59,840 --> 00:15:59,879
Speaker 2: It.

325
00:16:00,919 --> 00:16:04,639
Speaker 3: Well, social media has helped it. You open up and

326
00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:07,639
I got to meet most of the glass blowers throughout

327
00:16:07,639 --> 00:16:12,360
the whole country, okay, because there is a page dedicated

328
00:16:12,399 --> 00:16:15,799
to just glass blowers, and I could go in there.

329
00:16:15,879 --> 00:16:19,600
Let's say I need like a piece of material.

330
00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:19,759
Speaker 2: I can't find.

331
00:16:19,799 --> 00:16:22,240
Speaker 3: I'll go in there and I'll put anybody have any

332
00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:24,759
of this? Ah, And then you'll find a guy from

333
00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:26,720
Montana says, yeah, I got some of that.

334
00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:29,799
Speaker 1: Okay, that's interesting. So you guys kind of network amongst

335
00:16:29,840 --> 00:16:33,120
yourselves because you aren't kind of a rare trade out there.

336
00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:38,600
Speaker 3: We had to, Yeah, because certain places about Lord Neon,

337
00:16:38,840 --> 00:16:43,519
oh really, North Jersey, Bergen County. Almost every town has

338
00:16:43,559 --> 00:16:48,399
out Lord Neon really because the reason, well, I guess

339
00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:53,399
in the late eighties early nineties, everybody got on the

340
00:16:53,440 --> 00:16:57,320
Neon bandwagon, and people who didn't understand and didn't know

341
00:16:57,399 --> 00:17:01,480
the installation we're putting up and malls and all of

342
00:17:01,559 --> 00:17:05,440
a sudden there was a mallfire. The Neon burned down

343
00:17:05,440 --> 00:17:09,839
a mall up in Central Jersey. I can't remember which one,

344
00:17:10,079 --> 00:17:13,319
but they changed all the laws then no kid, and

345
00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:16,799
they changed the codes they had. They had a whole

346
00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:21,680
section of the Electrical Handbook with the codes, and they

347
00:17:21,680 --> 00:17:24,880
had a whole section for Neon. And I asked them,

348
00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:29,039
I go, what glass blowers work with you on, you know,

349
00:17:29,119 --> 00:17:32,119
getting this together, and they said none. I said, so

350
00:17:32,359 --> 00:17:37,799
you created a code without anybody, you know, experts, with

351
00:17:37,920 --> 00:17:42,319
no experts because I questioned things they did which were

352
00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:46,200
crazy and fell upon deaf ears.

353
00:17:47,279 --> 00:17:49,880
Speaker 1: I've seen this in like historical areas where you have

354
00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:53,720
all victorians, and I think Kate May's won. They don't

355
00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:56,519
even allow much for signage, never mind neon. So I

356
00:17:57,039 --> 00:18:00,000
could see why in some cases they'd want to keep

357
00:18:00,119 --> 00:18:03,720
up the esthetic historically, but to just eliminate it all

358
00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:07,400
together in a more industrialized area, that seems kind of

359
00:18:07,440 --> 00:18:10,039
like like they jumped the gun, you know, But I

360
00:18:10,079 --> 00:18:12,920
get it to a certain point. But I've also seen neon.

361
00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:14,400
I think I was just looking at I want to

362
00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:18,640
say it's Japan and certain parts, certain countries have just

363
00:18:19,160 --> 00:18:21,839
neo yeah, spec or Hong Kong.

364
00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:23,119
Speaker 2: That's what that's what it was.

365
00:18:23,279 --> 00:18:26,680
Speaker 1: Hong Kong is like and it's a giant piece of art.

366
00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:27,960
Speaker 2: It's pretty amazing.

367
00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:33,440
Speaker 3: There are many Neon factories that went to Hong Kong

368
00:18:33,480 --> 00:18:36,160
to get their stuff, to get their glass, like all

369
00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:39,720
these little things you see on the shelf in the Walmart,

370
00:18:39,799 --> 00:18:43,400
little like palm trees, that's all from China.

371
00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:46,559
Speaker 2: Really, they just they just mass produce it. Yeah.

372
00:18:46,759 --> 00:18:50,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, it's been another battle I've been fighting

373
00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:54,559
because those products from China are so much cheaper, hard

374
00:18:54,559 --> 00:18:55,200
to compete with.

375
00:18:55,319 --> 00:18:57,160
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah.

376
00:18:56,960 --> 00:19:00,720
Speaker 1: But they're more cookie cutter. They're not doing this service

377
00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:03,000
act or this horse so is that.

378
00:19:03,559 --> 00:19:06,839
Speaker 2: But that is a percentage of my business that I've lost.

379
00:19:06,799 --> 00:19:09,920
Speaker 1: Really, the smaller custom stuff that you could just go

380
00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:13,200
buy a Christmas tree shape Neon whatever.

381
00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:14,039
Speaker 2: Yep, oh, yep.

382
00:19:14,119 --> 00:19:18,160
Speaker 3: Interesting, it's a battle I've been fighting. But the going

383
00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:21,440
back to the mall, they changed all the codes and

384
00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:24,359
they made Neon safe ever since nineteen ninety six.

385
00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:25,480
Speaker 2: That's when they.

386
00:19:25,440 --> 00:19:28,359
Speaker 3: Changed the codes. And you've never seen a Neon fire since,

387
00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:30,880
and all the towns.

388
00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:31,160
Speaker 2: Don't know that.

389
00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:35,480
Speaker 3: So if you go for permit, let's say paramus first

390
00:19:35,680 --> 00:19:36,759
line on their permit.

391
00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:39,359
Speaker 2: No neon first line.

392
00:19:40,039 --> 00:19:44,200
Speaker 3: But a lot of towns would make the half the

393
00:19:44,279 --> 00:19:47,039
vendors in town take down their neon stegn. It's been

394
00:19:47,079 --> 00:19:50,720
in their window for twenty years not bothering anybody. So

395
00:19:50,960 --> 00:19:54,559
uh in Short Hills that they did a class action

396
00:19:54,680 --> 00:19:57,599
lawsuit against the town and they won.

397
00:19:57,839 --> 00:19:59,480
Speaker 2: Really, so it is.

398
00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:02,559
Speaker 3: A state law that you are allowed to put a

399
00:20:02,599 --> 00:20:06,799
neon sign in your window and the town cannot stop you. Interesting,

400
00:20:07,119 --> 00:20:09,720
but nobody went to the towns to tell them this.

401
00:20:10,039 --> 00:20:13,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mentioned, is that right? So they just saw

402
00:20:13,359 --> 00:20:17,240
it was still no one was educating them, basically, and.

403
00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:23,279
Speaker 3: The big glass manufacturer, their sales rep he was one

404
00:20:23,319 --> 00:20:25,519
of the big guys in the industry to keep it going,

405
00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:29,480
And I told him, I said, why don't you go

406
00:20:29,559 --> 00:20:33,960
to towns and educate them on this. I go because

407
00:20:34,279 --> 00:20:36,920
they're not getting neon, which in the long run affects

408
00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:39,559
you because nobody's buying those neons.

409
00:20:39,640 --> 00:20:40,000
Speaker 2: Of course.

410
00:20:40,079 --> 00:20:43,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, well it's not just the original sign, which is great, right,

411
00:20:43,839 --> 00:20:46,680
it's also repairs. If there's no neon signs, then you

412
00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:48,920
have no work to repair, right, So I mean it

413
00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:52,000
probably it's kind of a trickle down. So let me

414
00:20:52,079 --> 00:20:54,359
ask you a question. What's the lion's share of your work?

415
00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:57,039
Is it stuff like I bring you these original pieces,

416
00:20:57,279 --> 00:20:57,680
or is.

417
00:20:57,680 --> 00:20:58,799
Speaker 2: It these days? Yeah?

418
00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:02,079
Speaker 3: Yeah, I am I Right now I have a I

419
00:21:02,200 --> 00:21:05,599
just got a restoration up in a long branch. It's

420
00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:08,079
an old moving sign, but it's pretty big. It's like

421
00:21:08,119 --> 00:21:10,640
thirty feet long, five feet high, and it's got old

422
00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:12,880
neon on it, really, and they want to bring it

423
00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:15,839
back to its original you know self.

424
00:21:15,599 --> 00:21:18,319
Speaker 1: And it will be in its original position. It's not

425
00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:21,599
just like like what I have here, No, it's it.

426
00:21:21,640 --> 00:21:24,200
Speaker 3: Is an actual legitimate business, have been in business like

427
00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:26,960
one hundred years. So they want to put their old

428
00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:31,160
sign up. And uh, you know that's where I know

429
00:21:31,319 --> 00:21:35,240
my future is right here, is restorations because new signs there,

430
00:21:35,279 --> 00:21:38,480
they're led windows signs are coming up everywhere.

431
00:21:38,559 --> 00:21:41,079
Speaker 1: Yeah I can see that. Yeah, they're hard to compete with.

432
00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:45,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, they're one third the price. Yeah, and it's that's

433
00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:46,720
even harder to compete with.

434
00:21:47,039 --> 00:21:48,839
Speaker 1: So then this is your bread and butter, because no

435
00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:51,279
one with an original sign like what I collect is

436
00:21:51,279 --> 00:21:54,079
ever going to put LEDs on it, not ever, because

437
00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:56,480
it just it hurts it as a matter of fact,

438
00:21:56,519 --> 00:21:58,799
these signs a lot of like this horse I had

439
00:21:58,839 --> 00:22:01,599
for years without Neo on it until we started talking

440
00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:05,160
and you did the pattern and did the neon, and

441
00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:08,160
I'll tell you, uh it really I think it increases

442
00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:11,359
the aesthetic, of course, but it also ups the value

443
00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:13,880
because the person who you might sell it to doesn't

444
00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:16,519
have to do that, and they're very unfamiliar. Mostly people

445
00:22:16,559 --> 00:22:19,160
are afraid of neon. I will say this, it's fragile.

446
00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:21,079
I'm afraid of it. It's I don't like to go

447
00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:24,039
near it because I break everything like I would. Yeah,

448
00:22:24,319 --> 00:22:26,720
like you know, like especially, Neon's easy to break.

449
00:22:26,799 --> 00:22:28,920
Speaker 2: You ump it, you know, trust me.

450
00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:34,079
Speaker 3: I'm I should have gone into demolition, and here I am.

451
00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:38,079
I chose to trade that delicate. Yeah, yeah, so I

452
00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:41,039
had to learn how to be delicate. And I just

453
00:22:41,039 --> 00:22:41,720
look at it this way.

454
00:22:41,759 --> 00:22:44,200
Speaker 2: Neon. You treat it like a baby. Yeah.

455
00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:45,920
Speaker 3: And if you treat it like a baby, you should

456
00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:49,119
never have a problem, right, you know, except for once

457
00:22:49,119 --> 00:22:49,599
in a while.

458
00:22:49,759 --> 00:22:52,240
Speaker 2: Yeah. How often does stuff break?

459
00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:57,000
Speaker 3: I mean it depends on where it is, yeah, and

460
00:22:57,319 --> 00:23:02,200
who's around it. Because I worked with one shop, they

461
00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:05,640
had this guy working there. Every time he picked up

462
00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:08,759
a piece of neon repair for my shop. He'd come

463
00:23:08,759 --> 00:23:11,720
back five minutes later because he broke it, and I go,

464
00:23:11,839 --> 00:23:13,759
you better stop doing it. They're gonna think you work

465
00:23:13,839 --> 00:23:14,079
for me.

466
00:23:16,319 --> 00:23:17,359
Speaker 2: So let me ask you a question.

467
00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:22,000
Speaker 1: What's what's dangerous about neon? I know it's got what amps?

468
00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:23,480
Are the amps dangerous?

469
00:23:23,559 --> 00:23:25,079
Speaker 2: It's high voltage? High voltage?

470
00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:29,839
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, And that's only the transformer inside the neon.

471
00:23:30,039 --> 00:23:34,119
Speaker 3: Yes, And that is the key to making neon safe

472
00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:37,960
is to use the right materials and properly put it together.

473
00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:41,759
Because a lot of guys just you know, you should

474
00:23:41,799 --> 00:23:44,160
see some of the signs and come through. Oh my god,

475
00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:47,160
no idea how they haven't closed fires?

476
00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:49,000
Speaker 1: Like even down here, you mean they're you mean they're

477
00:23:49,039 --> 00:23:51,960
put together poorly or they're just the way they're wired

478
00:23:52,079 --> 00:23:53,440
isn't proper.

479
00:23:53,799 --> 00:23:56,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, Like right down the road here, remember the Grasshopper

480
00:23:57,559 --> 00:23:59,799
used to be a restaurant on the north side of

481
00:23:59,799 --> 00:24:03,039
s too, Like okay, it's a different place now, but

482
00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:07,799
they had an old Neon sign outside and had old

483
00:24:07,839 --> 00:24:08,480
neon on it.

484
00:24:09,039 --> 00:24:10,759
Speaker 2: And I had to.

485
00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:12,039
Speaker 3: Do a service call and I come in and I

486
00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:14,160
opened it up and I said to him, I am

487
00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:16,640
not touching this thing. I said, I got to rip

488
00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:20,640
this apart and rewire this whole sign because everything in

489
00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:23,079
here is a fire hazard. And the day I'm supposed

490
00:24:23,119 --> 00:24:25,759
to come down here fix it, the owner of the

491
00:24:25,839 --> 00:24:29,160
company calls me up. He's like, sign's on fire. I go, well,

492
00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:32,880
shut it off. And the fire department they had to

493
00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:35,759
come down and you know, hose down the sign and

494
00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:39,400
did you start over on it? I did some things,

495
00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:42,079
but the fire chief I had to give him a

496
00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:45,799
lesson in neon because I explained to him what happened

497
00:24:45,839 --> 00:24:49,200
here and he said, I never even realized that.

498
00:24:49,519 --> 00:24:52,119
Speaker 2: Ye, And that's, like I said, education.

499
00:24:52,519 --> 00:24:55,759
Speaker 1: So aren't some of the like standard norms of electrical

500
00:24:56,200 --> 00:24:59,920
function applied, like what an electrician would be.

501
00:25:00,319 --> 00:25:04,400
Speaker 2: Familiar with, or electricians are afraid of? Neon? Also okay,

502
00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:10,440
because it's it's a different um how do way? How

503
00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:11,160
do you phrase it?

504
00:25:11,039 --> 00:25:14,640
Speaker 3: It's a different way to use electricity that they're not

505
00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:19,400
familiar with. It's not like regular house wiring. It is

506
00:25:19,519 --> 00:25:22,519
a different level. It actually steps up the trans The

507
00:25:22,599 --> 00:25:26,359
transformer takes the one ten voltage and jump steps it up.

508
00:25:26,799 --> 00:25:29,759
Speaker 1: Gotcha, now will that jump out at you? Could that jump?

509
00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:33,400
Could could it jump off the transformer in a bad situation.

510
00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:36,759
Speaker 2: Not usually, No, unless you're in the back of the

511
00:25:36,799 --> 00:25:39,279
sign and you're right near your heads right in there. Oh,

512
00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:42,319
trust me, And that's happened. Have you gotten hit? Yeah? Really,

513
00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:43,519
it's not fun.

514
00:25:43,839 --> 00:25:46,720
Speaker 1: Where where like do you know where the electricity went in?

515
00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:49,160
Speaker 3: It happened too. It happened two weeks ago to me

516
00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:56,920
really where I was doing a repair and somehow the

517
00:25:57,119 --> 00:26:02,039
cord was in the plug and I touched the wire

518
00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:03,880
and the plug went in because I didn't think it

519
00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:09,920
was plugged in, and I'm likely it just went through

520
00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:12,640
my Yeah, through your chest, through your chest and you

521
00:26:13,279 --> 00:26:15,960
lock up a little bit. But it hurt for like

522
00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:19,359
two or three days really, and I went on, man,

523
00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:23,160
like your bones hurt, like almost arthritic. It's just a

524
00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:24,279
weird kind of feeling.

525
00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:25,440
Speaker 2: Interesting.

526
00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:30,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've had that with welding, you know, especially Bade. Yeah,

527
00:26:30,519 --> 00:26:33,480
back in the day, man, when we stick welded. Sometimes

528
00:26:33,519 --> 00:26:35,599
you go like climb up a column or be on

529
00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:39,240
a ladder and and you be carrying the stick and

530
00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:43,599
sometimes at ground and that would it would ground out

531
00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:45,440
and then it would just go through you and you

532
00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:47,480
could get stuck in that position. It could be very

533
00:26:47,559 --> 00:26:49,319
dangerous if you if you're in there long enough. Now,

534
00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:52,279
usually it just zaps you and then you're on a

535
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:55,359
ladder or right, that's the problem if your fall, the

536
00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:58,799
fall will you right now? So I've been shocked little

537
00:26:58,839 --> 00:27:02,119
shocks dozens of time, maybe you know, hundreds of times,

538
00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:04,680
to be honest with you, but nothing like what you're

539
00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:05,720
talking about, because.

540
00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:09,000
Speaker 3: That you have to learn not to get shot. Yeah,

541
00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:10,400
once you get shot, you're like, all.

542
00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:13,680
Speaker 1: Right, yeah, you don't want to do that again, that's sure. Yeah,

543
00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:15,079
I can see that interesting.

544
00:27:15,559 --> 00:27:19,480
Speaker 3: And the different transformers, like the like the old bombs

545
00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:20,440
that you got in this thing.

546
00:27:21,559 --> 00:27:22,960
Speaker 2: They that hurts.

547
00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:27,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a fifteen thousand Bold transformer. I mean the

548
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:30,599
milliamps those that's what really kills you there. This one's

549
00:27:30,599 --> 00:27:34,240
probably like thirty millionamps. And uh, if you get hit

550
00:27:34,319 --> 00:27:38,640
with an amp, you're dead. Really, so it is the

551
00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:41,480
voltage is higher, but the milliamps that's what gets you.

552
00:27:41,599 --> 00:27:42,680
Speaker 2: That's what kills you.

553
00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:47,480
Speaker 1: No kidding, yeah, now I'm getting afraid of neon. No, No,

554
00:27:47,599 --> 00:27:49,799
I'm just kidding. This thing buzzes, though. I think we

555
00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:51,920
got to put like something in there to quiet it down.

556
00:27:52,079 --> 00:27:54,880
Speaker 3: Well, people don't realize that especially with the old transformers.

557
00:27:55,559 --> 00:27:58,559
There's a corona of electricity about an inch around the tube.

558
00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:00,119
So if you touch.

559
00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:01,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, you can feel it when you touch it, when

560
00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:05,759
you get close to it, you can feel the electricity.

561
00:28:05,079 --> 00:28:08,200
Speaker 2: Really, you can. Yeah. People get scared by that. They

562
00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:09,559
think I'm gonna liket. You're cute.

563
00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:12,720
Speaker 1: No, yeah, And when you touch it, it kind of

564
00:28:12,759 --> 00:28:16,440
gravitates towards your finger, almost like a you know what

565
00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:18,480
I'm talking about. It's kind of like a Tesla ball

566
00:28:18,599 --> 00:28:20,559
type sort of thing, right, yep.

567
00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:26,200
Speaker 3: Actually, it's some signs, especially how they're installed where they're installed.

568
00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:29,359
Speaker 2: It affects the tube more than others.

569
00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:33,160
Speaker 3: Like you know, I learned, like they put borders in windows,

570
00:28:34,279 --> 00:28:40,200
and somehow the molding is attracted to the electricity.

571
00:28:40,799 --> 00:28:44,079
Speaker 2: So I'll be working on a sign and I'll put

572
00:28:44,079 --> 00:28:46,559
my hand on the molding. It'll be warm. Oh I'll

573
00:28:46,559 --> 00:28:47,119
get a shock.

574
00:28:47,279 --> 00:28:50,680
Speaker 3: Oh really and that will free people out? Oh, because

575
00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:54,559
it charges it Yeah, not I mean smallest amount, but

576
00:28:54,599 --> 00:28:56,200
it's kind of like when you rub your feet on

577
00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:58,279
a rug and touch someone sort of thing, like a

578
00:28:58,359 --> 00:29:02,000
quick little spark. It's not quick, it's if you keep

579
00:29:02,039 --> 00:29:04,319
your hand there, you'll keep getting shot out. Really but

580
00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:08,400
it's a low voltage. Yeah, and that scares people. Interesting,

581
00:29:08,839 --> 00:29:10,920
but you know that's why you got to use the

582
00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:15,839
right materials and how you install it to a major

583
00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:16,839
major difference.

584
00:29:17,039 --> 00:29:17,200
Speaker 2: YEA.

585
00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:19,680
Speaker 3: Like some guys will just throw wires and lay them

586
00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:22,839
in everywhere, and next thing you know, you're getting arcs

587
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:24,799
and right throwing.

588
00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:26,440
Speaker 2: Or warm up. I know that.

589
00:29:26,559 --> 00:29:29,119
Speaker 1: I know those big transformers could get get harm. They

590
00:29:29,119 --> 00:29:31,759
can get warm. If they get hot, that means they're

591
00:29:31,799 --> 00:29:32,319
going bad.

592
00:29:32,559 --> 00:29:33,000
Speaker 2: Yeah.

593
00:29:33,359 --> 00:29:35,640
Speaker 3: But the new ones, the solid state ones that are

594
00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:39,119
in I use in these two. They that's a whole

595
00:29:39,119 --> 00:29:42,640
different creature because the way the transformers made.

596
00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:44,519
Speaker 2: These are all got a circuit board, there's.

597
00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:48,160
Speaker 3: A solid state These have corn coil, which is copper

598
00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:49,200
wrapped around a magnet.

599
00:29:49,359 --> 00:29:51,519
Speaker 2: Right. They're a little bit more old school. Yeah, and

600
00:29:51,559 --> 00:29:55,440
that that gets you. And they're like twenty pounds or

601
00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:59,039
more that that transform was thirty five pounds. Wow. Yeah.

602
00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:02,920
Speaker 3: And you if you're on a you're on a ladder

603
00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:05,359
in front of a store and you've got to take

604
00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:09,440
one of these bombs out and sometimes you're like, oh man,

605
00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:12,079
how am I doing this? And you barely get the

606
00:30:12,119 --> 00:30:16,079
thing out of there. Where Now the little solid state ones.

607
00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:18,640
Speaker 2: Bang easy, Yeah, yeah, that's great.

608
00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:21,279
Speaker 1: Well that's good. Technology is coming up. So what's your

609
00:30:21,319 --> 00:30:23,960
biggest what's the biggest sign you ever worked on?

610
00:30:24,839 --> 00:30:29,000
Speaker 3: Well, there were a couple pretty big ones. Uh the

611
00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:31,000
Budweiser Eagle in Newark is.

612
00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:34,200
Speaker 1: Oh that Anheuser bush, that big one in Newark on

613
00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:35,200
when you go to the airport.

614
00:30:35,319 --> 00:30:35,519
Speaker 2: Yep.

615
00:30:35,519 --> 00:30:38,319
Speaker 1: Wow, that's the biggest neon sign I've ever seen.

616
00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:42,559
Speaker 3: So thirty two foot circle. Wow, and there's over five

617
00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:43,759
thousand feet of glass.

618
00:30:43,799 --> 00:30:47,680
Speaker 2: Does that thing rotate? Yep? Wow? It is so impressive.

619
00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:50,039
Speaker 3: It is impressive if you go on the roof and

620
00:30:50,079 --> 00:30:55,119
see what you have. You have this because the electricity,

621
00:30:55,759 --> 00:30:56,119
if you.

622
00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:59,920
Speaker 2: Have it spinning right, you have to have a contactor, right,

623
00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:02,319
which is what like is it like a drags?

624
00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:06,400
Speaker 3: Basically it is the base of the sign, which was

625
00:31:06,519 --> 00:31:10,119
like this big, and that base is electrified.

626
00:31:11,079 --> 00:31:12,839
Speaker 1: Is it like a third row on it for a

627
00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:16,119
train something like that? It's similar, right, because the train's

628
00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:17,440
moving and it's getting powered.

629
00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:22,680
Speaker 3: Very similar actually, And like that's so, I think there

630
00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:25,799
are one hundred and forty different circuits twenty am circuits

631
00:31:25,839 --> 00:31:26,440
on that sign.

632
00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:30,680
Speaker 1: Really light, Yeah, it is how many? How many linear

633
00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:32,079
feet of neon tube.

634
00:31:32,079 --> 00:31:35,240
Speaker 2: Do you think's on that thing? Over a mile? Really? Yeah?

635
00:31:35,519 --> 00:31:39,240
Speaker 3: Wow, there's seven layers. The eagle is the part that's

636
00:31:39,279 --> 00:31:42,400
flying seven layers And.

637
00:31:42,359 --> 00:31:45,000
Speaker 2: Uh who made that sign? Do you know? Originally? Yeah,

638
00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:48,319
I worked for the company Artcraft Strauss in New York City.

639
00:31:48,839 --> 00:31:50,599
They used to do old.

640
00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:53,559
Speaker 1: Times Square really the big stuff, the big stuff.

641
00:31:53,599 --> 00:31:54,279
Speaker 2: I mean.

642
00:31:56,119 --> 00:32:00,119
Speaker 3: They did the ball on New Year's Eve, the Time

643
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:00,759
Square building.

644
00:32:02,039 --> 00:32:04,279
Speaker 2: They had a Neon ball at one time. That was it.

645
00:32:04,319 --> 00:32:08,680
Speaker 3: Well it wasn't neon, it was electrical, but their company did.

646
00:32:09,759 --> 00:32:12,799
Speaker 1: They had a flashing crazy yeah coming down.

647
00:32:12,799 --> 00:32:14,079
Speaker 2: They had to do that whole thing.

648
00:32:14,119 --> 00:32:19,559
Speaker 3: And Uh, I said to my foreman, I go, you

649
00:32:19,559 --> 00:32:20,839
you do something.

650
00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:23,200
Speaker 2: That the whole world goes by?

651
00:32:23,319 --> 00:32:27,119
Speaker 1: Yeah, wow, because everybody looks at Times Square Times Square

652
00:32:27,319 --> 00:32:28,799
and he goes, I lost.

653
00:32:28,559 --> 00:32:32,799
Speaker 3: Its luster years ago. But I got to wire that sign.

654
00:32:32,839 --> 00:32:33,079
Speaker 2: I was.

655
00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:33,279
Speaker 1: Uh.

656
00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:35,440
Speaker 3: I was put in charge of the wiring for the

657
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:38,599
Budweiser Eagle and.

658
00:32:38,559 --> 00:32:42,200
Speaker 2: Uh like a rewiring or the we had to run.

659
00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:46,440
Speaker 3: They had a giant four x eight panel made by

660
00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:50,480
an electrical engineer and you had to run the wire

661
00:32:50,599 --> 00:32:53,200
from that panel to make it flash, and to make

662
00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:57,279
it you know fly basically, So you had to run.

663
00:32:57,759 --> 00:33:01,519
You had to wire miles of water, and you had

664
00:33:01,559 --> 00:33:03,759
to mark the wire on one end.

665
00:33:04,119 --> 00:33:06,960
Speaker 2: With the same oh, so you knew where the end was.

666
00:33:07,039 --> 00:33:09,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, the same color. So you had to have color

667
00:33:10,079 --> 00:33:12,839
and number, and each wire had its own color and

668
00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:13,440
own number.

669
00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:13,960
Speaker 1: Wow.

670
00:33:14,079 --> 00:33:16,680
Speaker 3: So on the panel you had the number there that

671
00:33:16,799 --> 00:33:20,200
wire went to the sign and you had to toach

672
00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:23,359
it there, so go and sequence the right way. It

673
00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:27,279
was a major project, and I think I don't think

674
00:33:27,319 --> 00:33:30,119
it's working right now because I don't know if there

675
00:33:30,119 --> 00:33:33,079
are any companies that have the people that know how

676
00:33:33,119 --> 00:33:33,799
to make it work.

677
00:33:33,839 --> 00:33:35,400
Speaker 2: Fix it. Yeah. Wow.

678
00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:38,400
Speaker 3: The one company they were doing the service on it,

679
00:33:39,039 --> 00:33:42,880
and a friend of mine was on the job and

680
00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:44,119
he was the foreman on that.

681
00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:48,079
Speaker 2: He's not with him anymore. Interesting, so I have no

682
00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:49,160
idea who's doing that.

683
00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:52,319
Speaker 1: Well, I guess you really can't talk Neon without talking

684
00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:55,079
Las Vegas, right, I mean, is it isn't that like

685
00:33:55,119 --> 00:33:57,640
the Neon capital at least of the country, or or

686
00:33:57,680 --> 00:33:58,119
it was.

687
00:33:58,240 --> 00:33:59,920
Speaker 2: It is the proving ground for Neo.

688
00:34:00,559 --> 00:34:03,599
Speaker 3: Interesting, the new product comes out normally Vegas is the

689
00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:06,640
one that uses that product, and then it spreads out

690
00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:09,239
from there. Through the country and the world actually really,

691
00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:10,639
but they had a town ordnance.

692
00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:11,320
Speaker 2: I believe that.

693
00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:17,480
Speaker 3: Every you had to have at least like twenty five

694
00:34:17,519 --> 00:34:19,239
percent of your signage had to be Neon.

695
00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:22,039
Speaker 1: Amazing, so the opposite of the problem you had around

696
00:34:22,039 --> 00:34:24,199
here with them not allowing it, right.

697
00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:27,400
Speaker 3: I almost moved to Vegas twenty five years ago, really,

698
00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:32,159
and somebody in the industry said, you're in a place

699
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:36,159
where they need skilled glass blowers. He goes, you would

700
00:34:36,159 --> 00:34:40,159
be wise to stay where you are, And I didn't.

701
00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:43,000
Speaker 1: Move because I can see that maybe there's a concentration

702
00:34:43,079 --> 00:34:46,800
of glass blowers and Neon guys in the Vegas area

703
00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:48,960
at least at one time, maybe because there was so

704
00:34:49,039 --> 00:34:51,480
much the service and people were still putting it up.

705
00:34:51,519 --> 00:34:54,079
Now a lot of those old buildings they've knocked down

706
00:34:54,159 --> 00:34:57,239
the golden nugget, all these right, although the old Vegas

707
00:34:57,320 --> 00:34:58,840
is where everything used to be.

708
00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:02,960
Speaker 3: The Riviera had to best Neon display ever, Yeah, and

709
00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:04,599
you just I don't know where they put that.

710
00:35:04,679 --> 00:35:09,199
Speaker 1: But there is a Neon museum in a sign museum

711
00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:12,079
in Vegas, and they've saved a lot of these giant signs.

712
00:35:12,079 --> 00:35:12,920
Speaker 2: They have some property.

713
00:35:13,039 --> 00:35:16,199
Speaker 1: I haven't been to it, but I've seen stuff online

714
00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:18,840
about it pretty pretty cool man preserving history.

715
00:35:19,159 --> 00:35:20,719
Speaker 2: Years ago it was a little lost on me.

716
00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:23,440
Speaker 1: Now I have a great appreciation for that stuff, you know,

717
00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:25,320
because it's it's American history when you.

718
00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:29,320
Speaker 2: Think about it, definitely a museum. Yeah, but you that

719
00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:30,119
place is funny.

720
00:35:30,119 --> 00:35:33,519
Speaker 3: You have different prices for daytime viewing and nighttime viewing.

721
00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:36,079
You paid ten dollars more to see it at night

722
00:35:36,119 --> 00:35:37,639
with all the lights linking right.

723
00:35:37,559 --> 00:35:40,760
Speaker 2: It really well.

724
00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:43,880
Speaker 1: The thing is, if neon creates an experience that you

725
00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:47,639
can't get with pretty much anything else, not light bulbs,

726
00:35:47,639 --> 00:35:51,519
not LEDs, you know, it has its own it has

727
00:35:51,559 --> 00:35:54,519
its own soul, I would say, in my opinion of

728
00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:57,800
just creatively, it just it jumps out at you.

729
00:35:58,159 --> 00:36:00,880
Speaker 3: Just a friend mine, who's are artist that I've worked with,

730
00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:04,239
Actually a piece of neon in Venice, Italy right now.

731
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:06,800
Really And the guy I worked with, he dealt with

732
00:36:07,639 --> 00:36:10,719
iron and he would build like, you know, tubes of

733
00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:11,639
iron and he would.

734
00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:13,320
Speaker 2: Build something and I would go.

735
00:36:13,239 --> 00:36:16,840
Speaker 3: Along the iron with the piece of neon and pretty

736
00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:19,840
good stuff. And he said to me, and I've never

737
00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:22,320
forgot he said this to me, like fifteen twenty years ago.

738
00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:27,639
He goes led comes from a factory in China. Neon

739
00:36:27,719 --> 00:36:31,599
comes from your soul. Yeah, And I went, wow, that's

740
00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:32,280
very true.

741
00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:33,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, I could see that.

742
00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:35,360
Speaker 1: Well, there's an art to it, right, It's an art

743
00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:39,079
form in and of itself, whether you're patterning or coming

744
00:36:39,159 --> 00:36:42,280
up with something completely original like the motorcycle you did

745
00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:45,039
totally and I and you know, me being a custom

746
00:36:45,119 --> 00:36:50,360
guy and having a design in mind, you know, I

747
00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:52,679
could really appreciate that. And I got to tell you, like,

748
00:36:53,119 --> 00:36:57,639
when I look at neon and neon signs, there's very

749
00:36:57,679 --> 00:37:00,000
little of that kind of stuff out there in any

750
00:37:00,079 --> 00:37:01,800
capacity and in any form.

751
00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:04,679
Speaker 2: Now there's like sculptures and things of that nature.

752
00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:08,039
Speaker 1: But when you think about signage with neon attached in

753
00:37:08,119 --> 00:37:12,960
the level of Americana, it reeks. I would say, right, yeah,

754
00:37:13,079 --> 00:37:16,639
there's nothing that rivals it in my opinion from an

755
00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:17,920
esthetic standpoint.

756
00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:18,840
Speaker 2: Very true.

757
00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:23,800
Speaker 3: Like Root sixty six is a great example. Over the years,

758
00:37:24,159 --> 00:37:26,679
all you know it was built on neon signs. Root

759
00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:29,559
sixty six you have the motel sign with you know,

760
00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:33,760
some kind of a bear out in front neon and

761
00:37:34,119 --> 00:37:39,400
or anything. And I guess about fifteen years ago they

762
00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:44,000
started a government program to repair old Neon a root

763
00:37:44,039 --> 00:37:46,159
sixty six to bring back that American if.

764
00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:48,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's great. I'd love to hear that.

765
00:37:48,599 --> 00:37:51,360
Speaker 3: I almost went down there just to see if I

766
00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:52,400
could get in on that.

767
00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:57,159
Speaker 2: And actually now they're probably a lot less glass blowers

768
00:37:57,199 --> 00:37:57,880
than there were then.

769
00:37:58,320 --> 00:38:01,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, because I think you're all right, right, especially since

770
00:38:01,519 --> 00:38:04,360
LEDs have taken a big they've made.

771
00:38:04,239 --> 00:38:06,360
Speaker 2: A big dent in it, you know.

772
00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:11,199
Speaker 3: And as far as learning goes, man, I don't know

773
00:38:11,199 --> 00:38:14,320
where the future of Neon's going because there are very

774
00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:16,920
few people that are learning this straight.

775
00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:20,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think that that's a common problem, I'd

776
00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:23,239
say in this country. Maybe globally, but I know for

777
00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:28,199
here in the States. Through the years of building motorcycles,

778
00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:31,559
mostly for large corporations, right because that's my bread and butter,

779
00:38:32,599 --> 00:38:35,760
And I've met with these companies and the only thing.

780
00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:40,400
Some of these companies were roaring, just growing exponentially, and

781
00:38:40,519 --> 00:38:42,480
they hit a wall. And the reason they hit a

782
00:38:42,519 --> 00:38:45,519
wall is they could not get anyone to come in

783
00:38:46,199 --> 00:38:50,360
a skilled workers and so their growth was stunted by

784
00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:52,880
the fact that they couldn't find anyone to work. Meanwhile,

785
00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:55,519
people are starving and there's no one to work, and

786
00:38:55,559 --> 00:38:58,400
that's become a big problem. I see that shift right

787
00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:01,719
now in this country. I feel like we're starting to

788
00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:06,639
come back into working with your hands more pride as

789
00:39:06,679 --> 00:39:10,400
an individual, but also in the country. And I'm really

790
00:39:10,440 --> 00:39:16,000
hoping that that people start to learn to bend glass

791
00:39:16,360 --> 00:39:17,119
and do neon.

792
00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:20,239
Speaker 3: You know, a lot of people quit because it's really

793
00:39:20,639 --> 00:39:21,360
really hard.

794
00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:22,760
Speaker 2: I mean.

795
00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:27,199
Speaker 3: Some some days we're torture. When I was learning, I

796
00:39:27,199 --> 00:39:30,239
would think, there's no way I'm going to get this.

797
00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:33,360
There's no way that I made a million bends and

798
00:39:33,400 --> 00:39:36,519
they all are terrible, and I was like, how am

799
00:39:36,519 --> 00:39:38,320
I going to get this? And like I said, one day,

800
00:39:39,119 --> 00:39:42,519
like you know, like a switch and then because it goes.

801
00:39:42,559 --> 00:39:44,920
Speaker 2: But what you got to learn is.

802
00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:49,639
Speaker 3: To get the right temperature of the glass when you're

803
00:39:49,679 --> 00:39:53,119
bending it. And a lot of times you think that

804
00:39:53,239 --> 00:39:54,719
it's ready to bend.

805
00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:56,840
Speaker 2: It's not. You'll make the bend. You're like, oh damn,

806
00:39:56,920 --> 00:39:57,760
I got to do that again.

807
00:39:58,679 --> 00:40:01,920
Speaker 3: And once once you get that down, you make less

808
00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:05,719
and less mistakes. And a lot of guys I've learned

809
00:40:06,119 --> 00:40:10,079
because I've gone through who I probably have gone through

810
00:40:10,119 --> 00:40:11,719
twenty glass blowers that work for me.

811
00:40:12,119 --> 00:40:17,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, it's an intriguing idea until you probably until

812
00:40:17,440 --> 00:40:19,480
you have to try and do it, and then it's

813
00:40:19,960 --> 00:40:22,039
if you're not willing to hang in there like you did,

814
00:40:22,119 --> 00:40:24,159
then you're like, oh, that was a nice effort.

815
00:40:24,760 --> 00:40:25,039
Speaker 2: Well.

816
00:40:25,159 --> 00:40:28,320
Speaker 3: Most of these guys said to me that they've never

817
00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:31,679
worked for a Neon shop where the owner was a

818
00:40:31,679 --> 00:40:36,639
glass blower, right, so they could get away with mistakes

819
00:40:37,559 --> 00:40:39,960
and not fixing them and putting them in a sign.

820
00:40:40,719 --> 00:40:45,039
And all they care about is getting it done, getting paid.

821
00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:45,760
Speaker 2: Right, moving on.

822
00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:48,920
Speaker 1: They don't care the quality control is not necessarily there,

823
00:40:49,159 --> 00:40:52,519
terrible interest it. Well, listen, I think we're a good combo.

824
00:40:52,639 --> 00:40:55,119
I mean, I got a water jet and all kinds

825
00:40:55,119 --> 00:40:59,679
of design ideas. You know, I was thinking maybe maybe

826
00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:01,760
we could do my logo. I won't cut it out

827
00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:04,000
in a water jet, will paint it out and uh,

828
00:41:04,159 --> 00:41:04,920
you can show me.

829
00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:05,760
Speaker 2: Where to put the holes.

830
00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:07,719
Speaker 1: I'll put the holes right in there, and we could

831
00:41:07,719 --> 00:41:11,440
probably create like a pretty killer PJD logo, you know.

832
00:41:11,559 --> 00:41:13,840
Speaker 3: No doubt about it, No doubt about it. I think

833
00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:16,239
about that stuff all the time. When you know, I

834
00:41:16,639 --> 00:41:19,760
see cool designs, like I mentioned the O.

835
00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:23,679
Speaker 1: C C yep, Like, yeah, the OCC logo would be

836
00:41:23,679 --> 00:41:27,159
good in neon because it's got this continuous uh you know.

837
00:41:28,119 --> 00:41:31,400
Speaker 3: Especially at that the big warehouse that you guys moved to.

838
00:41:31,719 --> 00:41:33,800
You had that big glass window that you had.

839
00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:35,599
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, we sort of we had a we had

840
00:41:35,639 --> 00:41:37,639
like a it was like a that's a vinyl.

841
00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:40,199
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was like a vinyl that looked like etge glass.

842
00:41:40,239 --> 00:41:42,360
Speaker 2: But that was like imagine if that was it would

843
00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:43,519
be sick. That would be sick.

844
00:41:43,599 --> 00:41:46,719
Speaker 1: And I think that was at least twenty five thirty

845
00:41:46,719 --> 00:41:47,239
feet long.

846
00:41:47,320 --> 00:41:50,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, and you know you had you could

847
00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:52,320
see that from the throughway.

848
00:41:52,239 --> 00:41:56,119
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, that would really jump out, That wouldn't really Yeah.

849
00:41:56,239 --> 00:41:58,280
Speaker 3: The people that would have been exposed to that because

850
00:41:58,719 --> 00:42:02,519
people think that you all CEC was in California.

851
00:42:02,599 --> 00:42:05,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's right, the Orange County aspect.

852
00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:06,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, so.

853
00:42:08,320 --> 00:42:11,400
Speaker 3: You know, things like that could make a huge difference

854
00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:12,159
on a business.

855
00:42:12,320 --> 00:42:16,880
Speaker 2: Yep. People don't realize that that little Yeah, why.

856
00:42:16,760 --> 00:42:19,639
Speaker 1: It's brand recognition and you're able to see it for miles.

857
00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:21,199
Speaker 2: Yeah, something like that.

858
00:42:21,320 --> 00:42:25,480
Speaker 1: And obviously that's why Anheuser Busch did that giant spinning eagle.

859
00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:29,679
Speaker 3: Well, they had some spectacular Neon signs in Times Square

860
00:42:30,159 --> 00:42:33,000
at one time. This is in the forties, they had

861
00:42:33,039 --> 00:42:40,119
a the Budweiser Clydesdale's in neon and the wheels would

862
00:42:40,159 --> 00:42:43,400
spin Wow, and the horses would look like they're running.

863
00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:45,559
Speaker 2: Wow. And these were It was.

864
00:42:45,519 --> 00:42:49,760
Speaker 1: A life size, full scale yeah. Yeah, see a sign

865
00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:51,800
like that right now, if you had a sign like that,

866
00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:54,159
it'd be worth like a million dollars. Even though it's

867
00:42:54,199 --> 00:42:57,039
so huge you can't put it anywhere, it's still it's

868
00:42:57,079 --> 00:43:00,480
so rare and unusual. So I guess two questions. When

869
00:43:00,519 --> 00:43:02,599
did when did neon come into the country? Was it

870
00:43:02,679 --> 00:43:04,880
late twenties or something like that, like twenty eight or

871
00:43:05,079 --> 00:43:05,880
nineteen o four?

872
00:43:06,079 --> 00:43:06,280
Speaker 2: Oh?

873
00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:11,280
Speaker 3: Really, it was invented in Paris, Okay, in the eighteen

874
00:43:11,719 --> 00:43:14,280
ninety World's.

875
00:43:13,920 --> 00:43:16,960
Speaker 2: Fair or something like that, some kind of exposition, and

876
00:43:18,280 --> 00:43:23,039
they had lined the Eiffel Tower with neon. Wow.

877
00:43:23,159 --> 00:43:25,719
Speaker 3: They said there was thirty thousand feet of neon on

878
00:43:25,760 --> 00:43:26,519
the Eiffel Tower.

879
00:43:26,599 --> 00:43:29,599
Speaker 2: Wow. And imagine how that hummed.

880
00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:32,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's funny, that's crazy.

881
00:43:32,480 --> 00:43:36,679
Speaker 3: I have a picture somewhere of a crew doing the

882
00:43:36,719 --> 00:43:38,280
maintenance on the Eiffel Tower neon.

883
00:43:38,599 --> 00:43:41,760
Speaker 2: Wow. And then guys don't even have safety ropes. Yeah. Now,

884
00:43:41,800 --> 00:43:45,519
back then, back then, they just climbed guys like holding on.

885
00:43:46,199 --> 00:43:48,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's crazy. I see iron workers like that from

886
00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:51,880
back in the day, no tie offs, nothing. So how

887
00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:54,360
long does Neon last if you do a good job?

888
00:43:54,519 --> 00:43:55,960
How long could Neon last for?

889
00:43:56,920 --> 00:44:00,639
Speaker 2: Well, their manufactor is involved.

890
00:44:00,639 --> 00:44:05,719
Speaker 3: I mean the glass, the glass, if there is if

891
00:44:05,719 --> 00:44:09,159
there are no strains and there are really perfect bends

892
00:44:09,159 --> 00:44:13,199
and perfect splices, Neon cycle lasts forty fifty years.

893
00:44:13,239 --> 00:44:15,239
Speaker 2: Wow, same Neon. Yeah.

894
00:44:15,320 --> 00:44:17,519
Speaker 3: I mean I have Neon in my shop that is

895
00:44:17,559 --> 00:44:20,880
thirty years old. Wow, and it's on all the time.

896
00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:24,840
I never showed it off. Yeah, So it's it's you know,

897
00:44:24,920 --> 00:44:27,760
if you've got a vacuum system that's really good and

898
00:44:27,800 --> 00:44:32,440
you're bending really well, could last almost forever. Yeah, wow,

899
00:44:32,719 --> 00:44:34,480
as long as you take care of it, you know.

900
00:44:35,199 --> 00:44:38,639
And there's no way an LED sign can last that long.

901
00:44:38,719 --> 00:44:41,199
That long, right, I don't even think they know because

902
00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:45,719
you know when they were LED's came out twenty five

903
00:44:45,800 --> 00:44:46,239
years ago.

904
00:44:46,320 --> 00:44:48,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're a newer product and they would say they

905
00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:49,599
last forever.

906
00:44:50,440 --> 00:44:54,079
Speaker 3: How do you know, right, Well, you're guessing that they last, right.

907
00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:58,639
Whereas their LED has got little tiny lights in a

908
00:44:59,039 --> 00:45:00,800
like a space like this, it could be one hundred

909
00:45:00,840 --> 00:45:04,599
little lights and they go bad. So over a period

910
00:45:04,599 --> 00:45:06,960
of time, you got spaces of light.

911
00:45:07,159 --> 00:45:09,960
Speaker 2: That start to fall out. Interesting.

912
00:45:10,320 --> 00:45:12,719
Speaker 3: People don't realize that when it's new it looks wow,

913
00:45:14,079 --> 00:45:18,440
but very short period of time. I like beer signs.

914
00:45:18,480 --> 00:45:23,119
Now every beer sign is LED, the ones they're producing now,

915
00:45:23,199 --> 00:45:27,400
the ones from China or all LED. And that has

916
00:45:27,480 --> 00:45:32,840
created a market for repairs because the bars and the

917
00:45:32,880 --> 00:45:36,679
liquor stores they want their neon because the LED doesn't

918
00:45:36,679 --> 00:45:38,000
give the same glow.

919
00:45:38,199 --> 00:45:40,400
Speaker 2: Glow yeah, yeah, I can see that. Interesting.

920
00:45:40,440 --> 00:45:43,880
Speaker 3: And they used to just throw them out. I mean

921
00:45:44,239 --> 00:45:48,280
the distributor used to give every liquor store and every

922
00:45:48,360 --> 00:45:49,880
bar in the.

923
00:45:49,800 --> 00:45:52,559
Speaker 1: Country whatever different brands.

924
00:45:52,639 --> 00:45:52,840
Speaker 2: Right.

925
00:45:53,039 --> 00:45:55,760
Speaker 3: So if you see someone selling a neon sign for

926
00:45:55,800 --> 00:46:00,440
like one hundred bucks, they got it free, right because

927
00:46:00,480 --> 00:46:03,440
I tell them, Like last week, a guy he's like, oh,

928
00:46:03,480 --> 00:46:05,679
I have this knee on that broke. I said, you know,

929
00:46:05,719 --> 00:46:07,239
it's going to be a couple of hundred just to

930
00:46:07,280 --> 00:46:10,280
fix that. He goes, I only paid fifty bucks for this.

931
00:46:11,360 --> 00:46:15,920
I said, that creature is dead. That is you got lucky.

932
00:46:15,920 --> 00:46:18,400
Interesting because now if you go on eBay and you

933
00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:22,920
look up some of the old vintage Budweiser signs, they're

934
00:46:22,920 --> 00:46:24,840
going for two three thousand dollars.

935
00:46:24,920 --> 00:46:27,679
Speaker 1: Yeah, it depends on what they are. Especially the porcelain

936
00:46:27,679 --> 00:46:30,599
stuff does well anything not even that old, just paying

937
00:46:30,599 --> 00:46:32,119
it really Yeah, I mean.

938
00:46:32,039 --> 00:46:37,599
Speaker 3: A Budweiser is because they're they're discontinued and they're not going.

939
00:46:37,360 --> 00:46:38,760
Speaker 2: To be interesting. Okay.

940
00:46:38,880 --> 00:46:41,199
Speaker 1: See, I don't really buy any too much beer stuff.

941
00:46:41,239 --> 00:46:44,440
You know, that's a big collectible market, huge.

942
00:46:44,719 --> 00:46:45,280
Speaker 2: I just don't.

943
00:46:45,519 --> 00:46:48,320
Speaker 1: I have a few really good beer pieces, but you

944
00:46:48,360 --> 00:46:50,440
know it's not my Forte.

945
00:46:50,920 --> 00:46:54,239
Speaker 3: A friend of mine I work with, he he collects

946
00:46:54,280 --> 00:46:57,360
beer signs. He has over five hundred beer signs.

947
00:46:57,400 --> 00:46:57,639
Speaker 2: Wow.

948
00:46:57,760 --> 00:47:01,039
Speaker 1: Some of them are fantastically valuable and and they're great

949
00:47:01,079 --> 00:47:03,880
to look at. There's an early Budweiser one that's neon.

950
00:47:04,239 --> 00:47:05,679
Uh that's porcelain and.

951
00:47:05,639 --> 00:47:06,400
Speaker 2: It was green.

952
00:47:06,599 --> 00:47:10,719
Speaker 1: Wow, like a green Neon and with a green porcelain,

953
00:47:10,760 --> 00:47:13,679
which is very unusual because you know, Budweisers almost always red.

954
00:47:13,920 --> 00:47:15,360
Speaker 2: I think I did one for Anthony.

955
00:47:15,480 --> 00:47:18,320
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, baby, that's a good sign. It's you could

956
00:47:18,360 --> 00:47:19,559
tell how old it is, you know.

957
00:47:19,679 --> 00:47:22,000
Speaker 2: It was. It was pretty big too, was uh like

958
00:47:22,119 --> 00:47:25,000
three by five or something or bigger at least. Yeah,

959
00:47:25,280 --> 00:47:28,880
it's heavy, right, Yeah, yeah, it's old steel. Yeah, you

960
00:47:28,920 --> 00:47:30,320
know there was no aluminum.

961
00:47:30,400 --> 00:47:32,599
Speaker 1: Yeah right, they made everything out of steel.

962
00:47:32,880 --> 00:47:38,000
Speaker 3: And uh that that is like things like that they're valuable,

963
00:47:38,079 --> 00:47:44,280
Like there are some it spuds McKenzie. Yeah, I don't

964
00:47:44,280 --> 00:47:47,440
see any of them anymore. Right, they're a collector items. Yeah,

965
00:47:47,440 --> 00:47:48,239
I could see that.

966
00:47:48,239 --> 00:47:50,320
Speaker 1: That's It's funny that was that was that like mid

967
00:47:50,360 --> 00:47:51,400
eighties basically?

968
00:47:51,599 --> 00:47:53,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, I could see that. Now that's how long ago?

969
00:47:54,119 --> 00:47:58,079
Too long ago? Yeah? And what thirty five years ago?

970
00:47:58,599 --> 00:48:03,039
Speaker 3: One I Budwise have signed. It's like got a bubble

971
00:48:03,079 --> 00:48:06,320
face and it's got the Anheuser Bush logo and Neon

972
00:48:07,119 --> 00:48:09,880
on the sign with Budweiser. It's probably like, you know,

973
00:48:10,239 --> 00:48:14,159
seventy eight inch letters. And I saw that on eBay

974
00:48:14,159 --> 00:48:15,639
for twenty five hundred dollars.

975
00:48:16,320 --> 00:48:18,679
Speaker 2: Okay, wow wow, Yeah.

976
00:48:18,719 --> 00:48:20,920
Speaker 1: I think some of that stuff gets collectible. People are

977
00:48:20,960 --> 00:48:23,199
looking for it. If it's rare, they know about it

978
00:48:23,239 --> 00:48:25,840
and they want it, you know. All right, Well this

979
00:48:25,920 --> 00:48:28,159
has been super interesting. Let me ask you a question.

980
00:48:29,599 --> 00:48:31,519
What do you think the future of Neon is. Do

981
00:48:31,559 --> 00:48:34,400
you think that it's gonna just die out because no

982
00:48:34,400 --> 00:48:36,400
one's coming up, or do you think people will get

983
00:48:36,400 --> 00:48:37,639
it'll gain interest again.

984
00:48:38,280 --> 00:48:41,920
Speaker 3: Well, you know, it's hard to determine that because I

985
00:48:42,039 --> 00:48:45,519
thought a few years ago that it would come back,

986
00:48:45,599 --> 00:48:49,800
but all these LED signs came out. Yeah, and a lot,

987
00:48:49,920 --> 00:48:54,880
especially the retail market, they're looking at, you know, to

988
00:48:54,920 --> 00:48:57,840
lower their costs. Sure they get an LED signed for

989
00:48:57,840 --> 00:48:59,960
a third of the price of a Neon sign, but

990
00:49:00,079 --> 00:49:05,599
it just doesn't have the same impact on a lot

991
00:49:05,639 --> 00:49:10,559
of people. And I'm hoping the industry.

992
00:49:11,519 --> 00:49:12,519
Speaker 2: Rallies, rallies.

993
00:49:12,599 --> 00:49:15,000
Speaker 1: What's it gonna take, because see, right, you're saying no

994
00:49:15,039 --> 00:49:18,400
one's coming up. Well, like people aren't really learning it.

995
00:49:19,039 --> 00:49:22,079
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean there are some people like I. I

996
00:49:22,159 --> 00:49:26,000
you know, on that Facebook page I was telling you

997
00:49:26,039 --> 00:49:28,679
for a Neon artists, there are some young kids out

998
00:49:28,679 --> 00:49:31,519
there that are trying and that the problem is they're

999
00:49:31,559 --> 00:49:34,679
being self taught and there is so much that you

1000
00:49:34,880 --> 00:49:35,480
don't know.

1001
00:49:35,840 --> 00:49:36,000
Speaker 2: Right.

1002
00:49:36,079 --> 00:49:38,360
Speaker 1: You need a master to kind of show you the

1003
00:49:38,480 --> 00:49:40,559
ropes so you can cut through a lot of the

1004
00:49:40,719 --> 00:49:41,559
trial and error.

1005
00:49:41,719 --> 00:49:43,800
Speaker 3: I got very lucky. I was in the right place

1006
00:49:43,840 --> 00:49:47,119
at the right time where I had three neon masters

1007
00:49:47,159 --> 00:49:47,599
I work with.

1008
00:49:47,800 --> 00:49:48,000
Speaker 2: Wow.

1009
00:49:48,559 --> 00:49:52,440
Speaker 3: One was an expert on bending glass, the other one

1010
00:49:52,760 --> 00:49:55,079
was sort of an expert on both and then the

1011
00:49:55,119 --> 00:50:00,480
third one was an expert on electrical and I said, boy,

1012
00:50:00,480 --> 00:50:03,480
I hope I learned all this from the and it

1013
00:50:03,639 --> 00:50:07,840
you know, it's come you know, like when you're when

1014
00:50:07,880 --> 00:50:10,400
you're there and it's happening, you don't realize what it's

1015
00:50:10,440 --> 00:50:16,480
going to turn into. And it's turned into where I'm

1016
00:50:16,519 --> 00:50:18,360
the expert on the job now, right.

1017
00:50:18,719 --> 00:50:20,639
Speaker 2: And I thought that there.

1018
00:50:20,480 --> 00:50:25,639
Speaker 3: Would be more, but I probably know well about fifteen

1019
00:50:25,679 --> 00:50:30,559
glass blowers and I am. There's only two of us left.

1020
00:50:30,920 --> 00:50:32,400
The others have gone on to other.

1021
00:50:32,320 --> 00:50:34,960
Speaker 1: Careers really and they've moved on.

1022
00:50:35,320 --> 00:50:39,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's my hardest part right now because running

1023
00:50:39,880 --> 00:50:42,840
a business, I you know, I have to go out

1024
00:50:42,880 --> 00:50:45,840
and meet people and you know, sell na, right, but

1025
00:50:46,079 --> 00:50:48,159
you're doing it all, but I also have to bend.

1026
00:50:48,199 --> 00:50:50,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're doing the sales, you're doing the bending, you're

1027
00:50:50,480 --> 00:50:53,480
doing the installation, you're taking the phone calls. And that

1028
00:50:53,639 --> 00:50:56,199
is a problem. And you know, it's funny because you

1029
00:50:56,360 --> 00:51:03,400
need to do that to maintain your quality, your you know, consistency,

1030
00:51:03,480 --> 00:51:07,519
your availability. But at the same time, you know, it's

1031
00:51:07,559 --> 00:51:10,360
hard to it's hard to make that work all the time.

1032
00:51:10,400 --> 00:51:11,000
Speaker 2: I'm sure.

1033
00:51:11,320 --> 00:51:13,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's kind of warm me out over the years,

1034
00:51:14,360 --> 00:51:18,199
because I don't think I've been on my own pretty

1035
00:51:18,280 --> 00:51:22,000
much since twenty ten, twenty eleven.

1036
00:51:22,639 --> 00:51:23,480
Speaker 2: I used to have a shop.

1037
00:51:23,519 --> 00:51:28,280
Speaker 3: I had five employees, three glass blowers, an installer, and

1038
00:51:28,880 --> 00:51:33,039
a secretary entering the phone. And it worked for a while,

1039
00:51:33,840 --> 00:51:38,719
but then the industry changed and the work wasn't. I mean,

1040
00:51:39,480 --> 00:51:42,280
it also goes by the economy. Also, if the economy

1041
00:51:42,320 --> 00:51:45,000
is not doing so well, the last thing people think

1042
00:51:45,039 --> 00:51:46,480
of is getting as a Neon s right.

1043
00:51:46,559 --> 00:51:49,280
Speaker 1: It's a luxury item kind of exactly exactly.

1044
00:51:49,800 --> 00:51:55,000
Speaker 3: And when the economy is cranking Neon is doing well, yes,

1045
00:51:55,119 --> 00:51:55,960
people will do that.

1046
00:51:56,360 --> 00:52:01,159
Speaker 1: I would say that for a lot of different extracurricular needs, right,

1047
00:52:01,280 --> 00:52:04,920
things that are above and beyond groceries and such, they

1048
00:52:05,000 --> 00:52:08,119
kind of get shelved, right. And then when the money's

1049
00:52:08,119 --> 00:52:10,960
flowing and the economy is good, then people are spending

1050
00:52:11,039 --> 00:52:12,280
all kinds of ways.

1051
00:52:12,320 --> 00:52:16,760
Speaker 3: A great example is I've done so many birthday presents

1052
00:52:16,760 --> 00:52:19,719
in Neon where someone wants a little design put in

1053
00:52:19,760 --> 00:52:22,840
their you know, their kids' bedroom, right as a night light.

1054
00:52:23,920 --> 00:52:25,599
Speaker 2: If the economy is doing well.

1055
00:52:25,960 --> 00:52:29,679
Speaker 3: They'll pay that expense, right, But if it's not, I know,

1056
00:52:29,800 --> 00:52:32,360
they're not going to spend four or five hundred dollars

1057
00:52:32,360 --> 00:52:35,440
on birthday, right you know when that that like? Right now,

1058
00:52:35,480 --> 00:52:39,199
it's been tough because people are afraid to spend their money.

1059
00:52:39,760 --> 00:52:42,639
Speaker 1: And we need people to spend up. Yeah, I think

1060
00:52:42,639 --> 00:52:45,880
it's coming. I got a really positive outlook on the future,

1061
00:52:46,000 --> 00:52:48,400
especially at this day and age. I think we're going

1062
00:52:48,480 --> 00:52:50,519
to start charging forward. I think we're going to get

1063
00:52:50,519 --> 00:52:53,519
interest rates down. I think that the economy is going

1064
00:52:53,599 --> 00:52:57,400
to continue to do well, and so I'm hopeful. Well, listen,

1065
00:52:57,440 --> 00:52:59,480
I really appreciate all the work you've done for me.

1066
00:52:59,559 --> 00:53:02,800
I love that these Neon signs. They they light up

1067
00:53:02,800 --> 00:53:05,440
the space. I love that I got them positioned around

1068
00:53:05,519 --> 00:53:09,000
and people come in and it especially kids, they love Neon.

1069
00:53:09,079 --> 00:53:12,639
Their eyes get wide, and I really appreciate all the work,

1070
00:53:12,679 --> 00:53:13,760
and thanks for coming on.

1071
00:53:13,840 --> 00:53:16,320
Speaker 3: I appreciate it. And we'll get you some more Neon in

1072
00:53:16,320 --> 00:53:19,119
the future, for sure. Awesome, We'll get some more restoration.

1073
00:53:19,599 --> 00:53:20,119
Speaker 2: Thanks Paul,