WEBVTT

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<v Speaker 1>And Helium. I think really the first to sort of

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<v Speaker 1>blow it open in a reasonable way right where you

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<v Speaker 1>or I or anyone can operate a miniature cell tower

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<v Speaker 1>but basically in our house or in our business, and

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<v Speaker 1>we will make money every time someone connects to that

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<v Speaker 1>cell town.

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<v Speaker 2>This episode is brought to you by Uphold, which is

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<v Speaker 3>So if you'd like to.

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<v Speaker 2>Learn more about Uphold and all the great services they offer,

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<v Speaker 2>visit the link in the description. Hi, everyone, welcome into

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<v Speaker 2>the Thinking Crypto podcast. I'm your host, Tony Edward, and

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<v Speaker 2>joining me today is Amir Helium, who's the founder of

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<v Speaker 2>the Helium Network and the CEO of Helium Mobile.

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<v Speaker 3>Amir, it is great to have you on.

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<v Speaker 1>Thanks for having me Tony. Good to be here, Amir.

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<v Speaker 2>As I mentioned before the recording, I'm excited to speak

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<v Speaker 2>with you because I followed Helium over the years. The

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<v Speaker 2>folks at Pantera Capital spoke highly of Helium, and I

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<v Speaker 2>just noticed your big partnership with.

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<v Speaker 3>AT and T.

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<v Speaker 2>I have a lots I have lots of questions for

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<v Speaker 2>you and what's happening in the deep in space as well.

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<v Speaker 3>But let's kick it.

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<v Speaker 2>Off with your background. Where are you from and what's

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<v Speaker 2>your professional background?

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<v Speaker 1>Goodness, So, I grew up in the UK. I was

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<v Speaker 1>actually born in Scotland, of all places, and I grew

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<v Speaker 1>up in in England just outside London. My professional background

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<v Speaker 1>really mostly be in the video game space. Like my

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<v Speaker 1>very first job was a video game tester as an

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<v Speaker 1>intern in in high school. By the way, it's that's

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<v Speaker 1>a thankless task. But I'm sure video game tester sounds

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<v Speaker 1>like a fun job and you just get to play

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<v Speaker 1>games all day, but it is brutal. You just got

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<v Speaker 1>this like sheet of like here's eight hundred known bugs,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, like recreate them, and some of them are involved.

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<v Speaker 1>You've got to play like four hours into the game

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<v Speaker 1>or something just to get to the to the bug.

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<v Speaker 1>So that's actually a much harder job than I thought

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<v Speaker 1>than I thought. And then I was a software engineer,

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<v Speaker 1>worked in design game design rather than than graphic design,

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<v Speaker 1>worked on stuff like Battlefield nineteen forty two. I used

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<v Speaker 1>to also play video games professionally, was another thing in

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<v Speaker 1>my past life. So I was a Quake and Quake

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<v Speaker 1>three and Unreal Tournament champion, and that was cool. I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>I met a lot of really good people and a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of you know, a lot of interesting companies and sponsors

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<v Speaker 1>in the space. And this was a long time ago,

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<v Speaker 1>this sort of late nineties, before before video gaming was

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<v Speaker 1>really or pro gaming was really a thing. But that's

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<v Speaker 1>kind of how I strangely, that's how I ended up

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<v Speaker 1>in Helium is that I met Sean Fanning, who was

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<v Speaker 1>the co founder of Napster, in that video game journey,

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<v Speaker 1>like he was a big Quake player and a big

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<v Speaker 1>World of Warcraft player. Pats crossed and we ended up

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<v Speaker 1>staying in touch and ended up founding Helium together many

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<v Speaker 1>many years later. So it all it all works out

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<v Speaker 1>in the end, but the path was was definitely windy

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<v Speaker 1>and strange in hindsight.

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<v Speaker 2>So on that note, you're well aware that in Web

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<v Speaker 2>three there's a big sector with game fi. Have you

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<v Speaker 2>gotten the itch to say, you know what, maybe I'll

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<v Speaker 2>jump sectors go from deep en to game file.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, not not yet. I've kept a close eye

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<v Speaker 1>on it. I'm I wrote, I'm an angel investor in

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<v Speaker 1>this company called Shaga that I think is potentially doing

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<v Speaker 1>some really interesting things in the in the gaming universe

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<v Speaker 1>on Solana. You know, I've kept track of it. My

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<v Speaker 1>skepticism around gaming on on in the Web three world

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<v Speaker 1>has always been that having worked for and like knowing

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<v Speaker 1>these companies really well, like EA, there is no way

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<v Speaker 1>they're going to give up ownership of their ip that way,

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<v Speaker 1>like they're going to like try and build their own

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<v Speaker 1>layer one or layer two or something. It would be

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<v Speaker 1>my I shouldn't say with such certainty, My expectation would

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<v Speaker 1>be that like that's what they would want to do

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<v Speaker 1>rather than building on Solana or you know, Bay or whatever.

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<v Speaker 1>And so that's where my skepticism kind of creeps in,

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<v Speaker 1>is that, like all of the value really lives in

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<v Speaker 1>the game itself. You know, so if you thought about

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<v Speaker 1>World of Warcraft trading items and gold and stuff like that,

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<v Speaker 1>and I can't see those guys being interested in like

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<v Speaker 1>moving any part of that value chain away from them.

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<v Speaker 1>But we'll see. I mean, I think it's you know,

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<v Speaker 1>there's been a lot of hatred I think in the

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<v Speaker 1>gaming space towards crypto, and that primarily comes from the

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<v Speaker 1>old days of GPU shortages. You know, gamers couldn't get

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<v Speaker 1>hold of GPUs at reasonable prices because everyone was trying

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<v Speaker 1>to buy them to mine ethereum or you know whatever

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<v Speaker 1>they were doing. And I think that created a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of conflict between the two universes. But we'll see. I

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<v Speaker 1>hope it's something that takes off, because to me, it's

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<v Speaker 1>something that makes logical sense, and having spent a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of time in that world, I can totally see how

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<v Speaker 1>they would crossover. But today I haven't thought about it.

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<v Speaker 1>I've just been focused on Helium and most of the

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<v Speaker 1>stuff I spent time on in the Deep in the

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<v Speaker 1>deep in universe, rather than.

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<v Speaker 3>Gaming, Oh for sure.

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<v Speaker 2>So do you think with a gaming aspect, it just

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<v Speaker 2>needs to be the bridge where these virtual assets can

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<v Speaker 2>be used in the real world, where they're interoperable. And

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<v Speaker 2>to your point, Ea, in these folks they create maybe

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<v Speaker 2>their own blockchain, but it is maybe a public blockchain,

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<v Speaker 2>or they build a layer two in a public blockchain.

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<v Speaker 3>What do you think might be the bridge for that?

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<v Speaker 1>It is, I'm not I'm honestly not sure yet. So,

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<v Speaker 1>like I think, you know what's interesting about it is

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<v Speaker 1>it all formed I think very organically, especially in World

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<v Speaker 1>of Warcraft, which is probably really where this all started.

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<v Speaker 1>I shouldn't say it started, but that's where it really

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<v Speaker 1>got popular. The idea of like trading items and people

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<v Speaker 1>paying for items, and you know, like that that felt

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<v Speaker 1>like somewhere between EverQuest and World of Warcraft is like

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<v Speaker 1>where that concept became real, and it's not you know,

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<v Speaker 1>it's not it's not clear to me yet what value

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<v Speaker 1>there is in taking it outside of the game itself, right,

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<v Speaker 1>because I can't do anything with the World of Warcraft

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<v Speaker 1>sword or whatever outside of World of Warcraft, right, Like

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<v Speaker 1>maybe I can have it as a PfP or something,

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<v Speaker 1>but I don't know if that's you know, I don't

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<v Speaker 1>know if that's valuable enough. So I think that's a

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<v Speaker 1>little bit of the challenge right now. Is like a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of the solutions are solutions searching for a problem basically, right,

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<v Speaker 1>and like can we apply that? Can we apply web

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<v Speaker 1>three to like X thing? And a lot of times

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<v Speaker 1>I'm not sure that that makes sense. And I think

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<v Speaker 1>the item idea is like a decent one, Like unless

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<v Speaker 1>there's interoperability of currency and items and stuff between games,

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<v Speaker 1>then I'm not sure there's a ton of value in

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<v Speaker 1>like just putting those things on chain, right, because there's

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<v Speaker 1>nothing to do with it on chain. I can only

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<v Speaker 1>use it inside its game, right, And so I think

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<v Speaker 1>that's going to be an interesting thing to watch it.

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<v Speaker 1>It's not a new concept or a new probably this

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<v Speaker 1>is like way before web three, like this idea has existed.

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<v Speaker 1>Steam is kind of an example of trying to create

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<v Speaker 1>sort of a cross platform thing that is useful, and

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<v Speaker 1>it has been, but that's been you know, it's become

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<v Speaker 1>more of like a game library or a game marketplace

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<v Speaker 1>rather than an in app kind of experience. So yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know. I'm curious to see, but I am

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<v Speaker 1>definitely skeptical and a bit wary. And by the way,

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<v Speaker 1>this is, this is why I think it's generally a

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<v Speaker 1>bad idea for people who come from the space to

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<v Speaker 1>be the ones trying to pioneer the disruption in web

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<v Speaker 1>three is that you know all the reasons why it

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<v Speaker 1>shouldn't work, and it is better if someone that just

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<v Speaker 1>comes in who quite frankly, is kind of clueless about

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<v Speaker 1>it and just sort of forces it to work. And

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<v Speaker 1>I think that's actually what happened with Helium and us

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<v Speaker 1>because we didn't come from like a wireless or a

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<v Speaker 1>telecom background. We just like it should just work this way, right,

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<v Speaker 1>And you know, you kind of need a little bit

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<v Speaker 1>of that cluelessness sometimes because you know where all the

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<v Speaker 1>pitfalls are if you've spent too much time in some

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<v Speaker 1>of these industries.

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<v Speaker 2>That's such a great point and to your point that

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<v Speaker 2>mostly the disruptors usually come outside of the incumbents, right,

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<v Speaker 2>and the legacy into tuitions and things like that.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean you couldn't have imagined Uber being started

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<v Speaker 1>by like a taxi cat exec, right, or Airbnb being

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<v Speaker 1>started by like some of them, the Hilton family, right.

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<v Speaker 1>It's just it is they can't think that way, and

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<v Speaker 1>it's because they've spent so much time in like the

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<v Speaker 1>regulation and you know all the stuff that comes with

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<v Speaker 1>the with that world, and so you know, as much

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<v Speaker 1>as I know about gaming, which is a little bit

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<v Speaker 1>old now, I think I would also be totally the

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<v Speaker 1>wrong person to like try and approach that problem, just

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<v Speaker 1>because I know so much about it, and I think

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<v Speaker 1>that generally can work against you.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh absolutely, I would love to know about what was

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<v Speaker 2>your first encounter with bitcoin or maybe etherorem or blockchain,

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<v Speaker 2>What was your aha moment and you know what led

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<v Speaker 2>to integrating that into a helium.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I was way late. I was clueless on crypto

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<v Speaker 1>for for the longest time. One of your very earliest

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<v Speaker 1>employees who's still with us, actually was the ethereum ico

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<v Speaker 1>and he was like, you should get in on this ico.

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<v Speaker 1>I was like, it just sounds like nonsense. You know.

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<v Speaker 1>It was like thirty five cents at the time per eth.

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<v Speaker 1>So in hindsight, I was an idiot. Maybe in foresight

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<v Speaker 1>I'm an idiot as well, but it was it took

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<v Speaker 1>me a very long time to understand why that why

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<v Speaker 1>it was interesting at all. Right, And and you know,

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<v Speaker 1>we used to joke in the early days with that

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<v Speaker 1>particular employee about maybe we should put bitcoin a six

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<v Speaker 1>inside you know, hotspots. And this is before Helium was

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<v Speaker 1>even a Web three crypto thing at all. We were

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<v Speaker 1>just trying to think of ways to incentivize people to

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<v Speaker 1>like go deploy these you know what ended up being

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<v Speaker 1>called the hotspot. But we were trying to create any

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<v Speaker 1>incentive we could think of for that to happen. And

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<v Speaker 1>it really wasn't honestly, and I think I've said this

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<v Speaker 1>on another podcasts and stuff. It wasn't really until file

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<v Speaker 1>Coin that I really was like, Okay, this actually really

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<v Speaker 1>is kind of cool, right, because you are you sort

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<v Speaker 1>of devised the system in Filecoin's case, like they're trying

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<v Speaker 1>to prove that you were storing, that you were making

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<v Speaker 1>file storage available, or that you were storing files. And

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<v Speaker 1>it was the first time that I had seen like

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<v Speaker 1>a credible let's say, a credible team, right, like they

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<v Speaker 1>had already been doing that kind of work for a

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<v Speaker 1>very long time, proposed something that I thought made sense

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<v Speaker 1>and sort of the use the thing that the network

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<v Speaker 1>needed as the work. Right. So rather than like hashing

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<v Speaker 1>or you know, using GPUs or whatever, you were making

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<v Speaker 1>file storage available, right, And it's a file storage network, right.

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<v Speaker 1>And that was the first time that I had seen that.

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<v Speaker 1>There were other file storage networks before filecoin, like CIA

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<v Speaker 1>or siah and storage and others that I have great

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<v Speaker 1>respect for, but their work was still hashing, and that

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<v Speaker 1>was like orthogonal to the problem, right, And it was

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<v Speaker 1>just sort of a way to like, you know, cause

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<v Speaker 1>there to be some work in order for rewards to exist.

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<v Speaker 1>So file coin was the first time I was like, Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>that's really clever. And then and then we started we slash.

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<v Speaker 1>I started to like go down this rabbit hole of like, okay, well,

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<v Speaker 1>what if we could revisit the concepts of like using

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<v Speaker 1>that as an incentive to like go build wordless networks, right, Like,

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<v Speaker 1>how could we how could we cause the network to exist?

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<v Speaker 1>Which is I think the genius of Bitcoin and file

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<v Speaker 1>coin and others is that they have invented the bootstrapping

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<v Speaker 1>system basically, right where the earliest participants in the network,

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<v Speaker 1>the miners, earned something, right even though the network isn't

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<v Speaker 1>being used and it's new, and you know, like you

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<v Speaker 1>have to solve that chicken egg problem somewhere. And that

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<v Speaker 1>was what I thought was genius about it. And obviously

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<v Speaker 1>we borrowed, slash copied heavily from from everything that had

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<v Speaker 1>come before us when we were designing Helium, and I

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<v Speaker 1>think ended up being I think very successful as a

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<v Speaker 1>way to like bootstrap wireless networks.

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<v Speaker 3>And I'm curious at what you think about this.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, you mentioned your time at Napster and the

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<v Speaker 2>concept of file sharing and computers distributed globally that are

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<v Speaker 2>seating certain files, and then blockchain is almost the same concept,

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<v Speaker 2>but just the verification and the cryptography aspect to it.

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<v Speaker 2>Do you see the similarities there? Is that is this

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<v Speaker 2>an evolution of file sharing?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah? I think so. So just to be clear, I

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<v Speaker 1>was never at Napster. My co founder Sean was the

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<v Speaker 1>founder of so I'm not that well versed in that universe.

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<v Speaker 1>But it feels the same, right, like it is a

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<v Speaker 1>user created distribution system basically, right, like you don't have

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<v Speaker 1>to go to Tower Records or HMV if you're British or whatever,

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<v Speaker 1>Like you now have this sort of at the time

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<v Speaker 1>highly illegal version of a of a of a you know,

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<v Speaker 1>file sharing network. But I think what it proved was

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<v Speaker 1>like that's actually what people wanted, right, Like they want

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<v Speaker 1>to be able to like you seem too young. But

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<v Speaker 1>if you remember, at the time, the only way to

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<v Speaker 1>like get a single song was to like buy the

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<v Speaker 1>whole album, right, and like that was like, honestly, the

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<v Speaker 1>biggest shift with Napster was like I just want that

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<v Speaker 1>one song and I would even pay for it, but

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<v Speaker 1>there's no way for me to pay for it, so

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<v Speaker 1>I'm just gonna steal it. Basically was the way that worked,

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<v Speaker 1>and I think that led to what ultimately was iTunes

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<v Speaker 1>and everything else, because that was the unlocked was like

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<v Speaker 1>I just want that song, right, and it should be

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<v Speaker 1>easy for me to acquire it. And web three stuff

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<v Speaker 1>is I think a little bit like that. It is

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<v Speaker 1>all you know, it's all user created and all sort

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<v Speaker 1>of lives in this public domain, and I think that

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<v Speaker 1>is such a radical change from what had happened in

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<v Speaker 1>the past, and things like Napster and bit torrent after it,

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<v Speaker 1>and everything that sort of came came that way. I

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<v Speaker 1>thought it was sort of I don't know, almost prepared

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<v Speaker 1>the public for like what that feels like, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>like to have these sort of publicly distributed networks, and

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<v Speaker 1>I I love that part. I think it's fascinating.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh for sure.

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<v Speaker 2>Take us back to the genesis of Helium. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>how did this idea come about, what was the mission

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<v Speaker 2>and how has that mission evolved over the years.

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<v Speaker 1>Helium started as not a crypto company. So we started

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<v Speaker 1>the company in twenty thirteen, and the thing that we

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<v Speaker 1>were trying to solve for was like there should be

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<v Speaker 1>a big wireless network for low power connected things, so

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<v Speaker 1>sensors basically, right. We had friends that were building hardware

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<v Speaker 1>startups that likes sensor companies, but basically and they had

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<v Speaker 1>no way of like getting their devices connected to the internet,

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<v Speaker 1>Like you either had to use Bluetooth, but in a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of cases that wouldn't work just because of what

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<v Speaker 1>they were trying to build, like they wouldn't be any

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<v Speaker 1>phones nearby. Wi Fi had the problem of like, hey, well,

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<v Speaker 1>how do you authenticate to all these different worldless networks?

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<v Speaker 1>And like how do I make it seamless? Cellular was

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<v Speaker 1>really really expensive at the time and you know, very

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<v Speaker 1>very power intensive, and so that was sort of the

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<v Speaker 1>genesis thought was like, Okay, well, why is there supposed

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<v Speaker 1>to be this like blow up of Internet of things,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, IoT stuff, but there doesn't seem to be

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<v Speaker 1>a network that would actually support those devices. And so

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<v Speaker 1>that that was our sort of original thought. And because

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<v Speaker 1>we had friends working in that universe, we we sort

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<v Speaker 1>of understood the problem at some level and thought we

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<v Speaker 1>actually had our first set of customers in those friends.

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<v Speaker 1>It took a long time, though, like we had not

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<v Speaker 1>solved in any way the how do you build a

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<v Speaker 1>wireless network? Park Like we had built the technology, like

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<v Speaker 1>so we had built an interesting, low power wordless protocol,

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<v Speaker 1>but the problem remained of like, oh, well how do

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<v Speaker 1>I how do I build a big wireless network? Or

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<v Speaker 1>like how do I get thousands or hundreds of thousands

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<v Speaker 1>or millions of these things deployed? And I you know,

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<v Speaker 1>it wasn't really until we started dabbling in crypto like

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<v Speaker 1>years later that we even thought about finding a solution

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<v Speaker 1>to found a reasonable solution to that problem. We spent

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of time, you know, building products for like

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<v Speaker 1>healthcare and like restaurants, and you know, we started to

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<v Speaker 1>we tried to think of it that way. It was like, okay,

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<v Speaker 1>if we got every restaurant to like install these helium

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<v Speaker 1>sensors and devices, then you would end up with the

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<v Speaker 1>big coverage network that way. But it's a very very

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<v Speaker 1>very slow and kind of painful grind and to some

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<v Speaker 1>degree like not a thing that at least for myself,

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<v Speaker 1>but I think for a lot of the team also

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<v Speaker 1>not that interesting. You know that we came from like

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<v Speaker 1>the sort of protocol background of like wanting to build

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<v Speaker 1>distributed systems and change the world in some way, and

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<v Speaker 1>instead we were building you know, sensor solutions for restaurants,

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<v Speaker 1>which is a perfectly fine business. It just wasn't what

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<v Speaker 1>we wanted to do and what I wanted to do.

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<v Speaker 1>So I think when we when we read the file

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<v Speaker 1>coin white paper, like I literally just ninety degree turned

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<v Speaker 1>the company. At that point, I was like I don't

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<v Speaker 1>even want to do what we were doing anymore, like

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<v Speaker 1>we should do this right. And that was an interesting

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<v Speaker 1>period of time. It was a lot of intense conversations

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<v Speaker 1>with investors and the board because crypto was still pretty

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<v Speaker 1>new and still very cowboy ish. I can't tell if

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<v Speaker 1>that's gotten better, honestly, but so it was. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>it was kind of a radical idea to like abandon

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<v Speaker 1>a business plan that was kind of working but slowly,

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<v Speaker 1>and go chase off some other crazy, you know thing.

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<v Speaker 1>But that's kind of the That was sort of the

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<v Speaker 1>evolution is that we struggled for a long time to

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<v Speaker 1>figure out how to get the sort of technology for

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<v Speaker 1>IoT that we had built deployed at scale. And then

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<v Speaker 1>when we discovered file coin, that kind of set us

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<v Speaker 1>down the path of what became things like proof of

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<v Speaker 1>coverage and hotspots and wrote the first white paper in

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<v Speaker 1>twenty eighteen, and that was sort of the start of

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<v Speaker 1>out of Helium's crypto journey, I guess.

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<v Speaker 3>And you mentioned the word radical.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, I can't imagine what that was like to

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<v Speaker 2>steer to ship in a very different direction. And you know,

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<v Speaker 2>are you happy you did that and made that change,

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<v Speaker 2>as hard as it may have been.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, No, No, no regrets about that, not even for

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<v Speaker 1>a second. Like there are things about crypto that I

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<v Speaker 1>think are troubling and it can be exhausting, for sure,

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<v Speaker 1>but that is absolutely one of the better things that

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<v Speaker 1>we've ever done. And I think, you know, people may disagree,

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<v Speaker 1>but I think Helium really created deep In as we

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<v Speaker 1>know it today, you know, like I don't think I

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<v Speaker 1>don't think there would be a deep In without Helium

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<v Speaker 1>or something that looked like us. And for that, I'm

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<v Speaker 1>very proud. Like I think that that's an awesome thing

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<v Speaker 1>to have been part of, and I hope to like

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<v Speaker 1>watch it evolve and participate in the evolution, whether with

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<v Speaker 1>Helium or as an investor in other stuff, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>to the extent that I can. Oh.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, in many ways, you guys are leading the charge

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<v Speaker 2>here and deep end, because any time I ask about

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<v Speaker 2>deep Into anyone, Helium is brought up, I mean as

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<v Speaker 2>a great example.

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<v Speaker 3>So kudos to you and the team.

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<v Speaker 2>Now, at one point you had your own blockchain and

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00:20:10.720 --> 00:20:13.359
<v Speaker 2>then you switched to Salona. Tell us about that and

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<v Speaker 2>the whole strategy behind that.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, when we started building it was probably twenty

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<v Speaker 1>seventeen that we started like building stuff. You know, we

394
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<v Speaker 1>hadn't really finished the first version of a white paper,

395
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<v Speaker 1>but we knew roughly what we were trying to do,

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<v Speaker 1>Like we were trying to invent a way to incentivize

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<v Speaker 1>people to deploy these like we call them hotspots, so

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<v Speaker 1>they are sort of like wireless access points, and you know,

399
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<v Speaker 1>kind of the way I'd mentioned earlier. The problem is

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<v Speaker 1>there's no there are no users of your network yet

401
00:20:43.200 --> 00:20:46.079
<v Speaker 1>because your network doesn't exist, and so you have to

402
00:20:46.160 --> 00:20:50.519
<v Speaker 1>create some kind of reason or incentive for people to

403
00:20:50.599 --> 00:20:55.200
<v Speaker 1>deploy these hotspots absent there being customers and usage and

404
00:20:55.279 --> 00:20:58.000
<v Speaker 1>money on the on the other side. And that's what

405
00:20:58.279 --> 00:21:01.119
<v Speaker 1>that was. I think really Bitcoin's greatest invention with this

406
00:21:01.200 --> 00:21:03.319
<v Speaker 1>concept of mining, right right was like I'm going to

407
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<v Speaker 1>do some work, and I'm going to get rewarded in tokens,

408
00:21:06.920 --> 00:21:10.640
<v Speaker 1>coins like currency or whatever for doing that work, regardless

409
00:21:10.640 --> 00:21:12.640
<v Speaker 1>of whether there's actually any users of the network or not.

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<v Speaker 1>Right like in the early days of bitcoin, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>you're just mining empty blocks for the for the most part,

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<v Speaker 1>right Like, there aren't transactions, There aren't substantial transaction fees.

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<v Speaker 1>There's no revenue for you right as a minor, and

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<v Speaker 1>you know, earning the genesis or the coin based rewards

415
00:21:28.599 --> 00:21:31.720
<v Speaker 1>sorry in bitcoin, is your reward, right, And so we

416
00:21:31.960 --> 00:21:35.480
<v Speaker 1>we knew that that's what we wanted to do at

417
00:21:35.480 --> 00:21:39.920
<v Speaker 1>the time. Really only ethereum existed that would have made

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<v Speaker 1>any kind of sense for us to There were other

419
00:21:42.079 --> 00:21:44.119
<v Speaker 1>st I mean, EOS was kind of a round ish

420
00:21:44.279 --> 00:21:47.119
<v Speaker 1>sort of you know, there was other stuff that we

421
00:21:47.160 --> 00:21:50.319
<v Speaker 1>could have used. Ethereum we thought was the only one

422
00:21:50.319 --> 00:21:55.200
<v Speaker 1>that was reasonable as an idea, but I think, you know,

423
00:21:55.359 --> 00:21:57.599
<v Speaker 1>we would have had to have built what is now

424
00:21:57.759 --> 00:21:59.920
<v Speaker 1>thought of as an L two basically, right, We would

425
00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:03.640
<v Speaker 1>had to have built an entire blockchain basically on top

426
00:22:03.680 --> 00:22:06.480
<v Speaker 1>of Ethereum in order to be able to do what

427
00:22:06.480 --> 00:22:08.559
<v Speaker 1>we want, just because we have so many transactions and

428
00:22:08.599 --> 00:22:10.799
<v Speaker 1>like so much stuff going on. It would be too expensive,

429
00:22:12.240 --> 00:22:14.720
<v Speaker 1>and in hindsight, you know, maybe an L two would

430
00:22:14.720 --> 00:22:16.559
<v Speaker 1>have been the right thing to do. I don't know.

431
00:22:16.920 --> 00:22:18.839
<v Speaker 1>What was clear was that we needed to build something

432
00:22:18.920 --> 00:22:21.880
<v Speaker 1>because doing it on Ethereum directly was not going to work.

433
00:22:23.160 --> 00:22:25.240
<v Speaker 1>And so that's where we you know, our team at

434
00:22:25.240 --> 00:22:29.359
<v Speaker 1>the time had a pretty deep background in building distributed systems,

435
00:22:30.359 --> 00:22:31.880
<v Speaker 1>Like a bunch of the guys on the team had

436
00:22:31.920 --> 00:22:34.839
<v Speaker 1>worked on the back end for Apple's eye message for example,

437
00:22:34.880 --> 00:22:38.200
<v Speaker 1>which is like a gigantic like distributed systems problem. So

438
00:22:38.240 --> 00:22:40.440
<v Speaker 1>we thought we knew how to like tackle that problem

439
00:22:40.519 --> 00:22:42.559
<v Speaker 1>and to some degree we did, right, Like, we built

440
00:22:43.319 --> 00:22:46.319
<v Speaker 1>an l one that was pretty good. It was sort

441
00:22:46.319 --> 00:22:49.559
<v Speaker 1>of unique in that it didn't have validators. Like all

442
00:22:49.599 --> 00:22:54.319
<v Speaker 1>of the blockchain ran on these little hotspots, which at

443
00:22:54.319 --> 00:22:56.440
<v Speaker 1>the time we thought was super important, like we wanted

444
00:22:56.440 --> 00:22:59.960
<v Speaker 1>to sort of maximize decentralization, but I think it was

445
00:23:00.119 --> 00:23:02.039
<v Speaker 1>you know, it ended up being a lot of work

446
00:23:02.079 --> 00:23:04.920
<v Speaker 1>to maintain. As the network scaled at the speed that

447
00:23:05.000 --> 00:23:09.319
<v Speaker 1>it did, it became ever harder and perhaps impossible to

448
00:23:09.359 --> 00:23:11.839
<v Speaker 1>like keep running the blockchain on these like miniature little

449
00:23:11.839 --> 00:23:16.680
<v Speaker 1>devices that were like raspberry pies, which again I'm like,

450
00:23:16.799 --> 00:23:19.039
<v Speaker 1>I amazed that we got that to work at all,

451
00:23:19.079 --> 00:23:22.039
<v Speaker 1>but it just became like an impossible burden and started

452
00:23:22.039 --> 00:23:25.079
<v Speaker 1>to it started to make it harder to scale in

453
00:23:25.160 --> 00:23:27.640
<v Speaker 1>terms of users because it became so much harder for

454
00:23:27.680 --> 00:23:30.079
<v Speaker 1>the network to work, and there were outages all the time,

455
00:23:30.640 --> 00:23:32.720
<v Speaker 1>and there are problems, and people had to open their

456
00:23:32.759 --> 00:23:35.480
<v Speaker 1>fireworlds for peer to peer connection, you know, just it

457
00:23:35.480 --> 00:23:38.519
<v Speaker 1>became complicated to be an operator of a hotspot, which

458
00:23:38.559 --> 00:23:40.839
<v Speaker 1>was the opposite of what we wanted, right. We wanted

459
00:23:40.880 --> 00:23:43.720
<v Speaker 1>to make it as simple as possible. So we had

460
00:23:43.759 --> 00:23:46.440
<v Speaker 1>known the Solana guys for a very long time. Our

461
00:23:46.559 --> 00:23:50.880
<v Speaker 1>CTO had worked with Anatolely back in the qualcom days.

462
00:23:52.039 --> 00:23:54.559
<v Speaker 1>Anatotally the founder of Solana or one of the founders.

463
00:23:55.799 --> 00:23:58.440
<v Speaker 1>We tried to hire Anatolely to work on Helium, but

464
00:23:58.519 --> 00:24:01.079
<v Speaker 1>he had already sort of sele and was, you know,

465
00:24:01.119 --> 00:24:04.839
<v Speaker 1>working on this proof of history thing. But it was

466
00:24:04.880 --> 00:24:07.440
<v Speaker 1>too early at the time, like Solana was like roughly

467
00:24:07.440 --> 00:24:10.920
<v Speaker 1>in the same stage of development that Helium was, and

468
00:24:10.960 --> 00:24:13.119
<v Speaker 1>so we couldn't really hitch our wag into something that

469
00:24:13.200 --> 00:24:15.920
<v Speaker 1>was also in development and also hadn't launched and also

470
00:24:15.960 --> 00:24:18.000
<v Speaker 1>would have bugs and also you know what I mean,

471
00:24:18.079 --> 00:24:20.559
<v Speaker 1>like we wanted to control our desks a little bit better.

472
00:24:20.640 --> 00:24:24.559
<v Speaker 1>But over time, as Solana started to succeed and started

473
00:24:24.599 --> 00:24:27.960
<v Speaker 1>to get adopted and you know, a DeFi ecosystem started

474
00:24:28.000 --> 00:24:31.720
<v Speaker 1>to form, and exchanges started to support SPL tokens and

475
00:24:31.839 --> 00:24:34.839
<v Speaker 1>wallets started to support SPL tokens. You know, it's a

476
00:24:34.839 --> 00:24:36.759
<v Speaker 1>lot of work to try and go to every single

477
00:24:36.799 --> 00:24:39.720
<v Speaker 1>exchange or every single wallet you know provider and say like, hey,

478
00:24:39.759 --> 00:24:42.720
<v Speaker 1>add support for this you know, custom l one that

479
00:24:42.880 --> 00:24:46.759
<v Speaker 1>only works for us, right, and it made it very

480
00:24:46.759 --> 00:24:50.200
<v Speaker 1>difficult for us to get adoption on exchanges or wallets

481
00:24:50.240 --> 00:24:53.440
<v Speaker 1>or really anything, and certainly there was no DeFi ecosystem

482
00:24:53.799 --> 00:24:56.759
<v Speaker 1>or anything like that that existed. All that was happening

483
00:24:56.759 --> 00:25:00.039
<v Speaker 1>in telegram. So once Solana got to that point, I

484
00:25:01.559 --> 00:25:04.160
<v Speaker 1>was like, it makes no sense not to switch as

485
00:25:04.200 --> 00:25:06.160
<v Speaker 1>far as I'm concerned, right, like, because we own a

486
00:25:06.200 --> 00:25:09.680
<v Speaker 1>wireless telecom company at the end of the day, and

487
00:25:09.720 --> 00:25:12.480
<v Speaker 1>having to like build and maintain our own blockchain, which

488
00:25:12.519 --> 00:25:14.680
<v Speaker 1>is something like we had to do rather than something

489
00:25:14.720 --> 00:25:16.680
<v Speaker 1>that we thought really added a lot of value to

490
00:25:16.720 --> 00:25:18.119
<v Speaker 1>what we were what we were building.

491
00:25:19.200 --> 00:25:21.160
<v Speaker 2>Oh, that absolutely makes sense. Yeah, I mean I can't

492
00:25:21.200 --> 00:25:24.599
<v Speaker 2>imagine building and you know, managing your own blockchain. The

493
00:25:24.640 --> 00:25:27.559
<v Speaker 2>amount of work that is evolved in that. You know,

494
00:25:27.839 --> 00:25:29.799
<v Speaker 2>for the folks who are listening, who may this is

495
00:25:29.839 --> 00:25:32.680
<v Speaker 2>maybe all new to them. What's kind of your elevator pitched,

496
00:25:32.920 --> 00:25:34.480
<v Speaker 2>you know as to what is helium at how they

497
00:25:34.480 --> 00:25:35.279
<v Speaker 2>can leverage it?

498
00:25:36.599 --> 00:25:40.480
<v Speaker 1>Mean, Helium is that, I think the world's first user

499
00:25:40.599 --> 00:25:44.640
<v Speaker 1>owned telco. But basically is the way to think about it, right, Like,

500
00:25:44.680 --> 00:25:49.279
<v Speaker 1>if you wanted to, you know, participate in the telecom

501
00:25:49.319 --> 00:25:51.119
<v Speaker 1>world in any way, like if you wanted to own

502
00:25:51.160 --> 00:25:53.119
<v Speaker 1>a cell tower a bit basically, right, and you thought

503
00:25:53.119 --> 00:25:55.839
<v Speaker 1>that would be an interesting way of making money. Helium

504
00:25:55.920 --> 00:25:58.039
<v Speaker 1>is like a way to like go go and do

505
00:25:58.119 --> 00:26:02.400
<v Speaker 1>that right. Like, it's an industry that historically has been

506
00:26:02.440 --> 00:26:09.359
<v Speaker 1>gate kept by money regulation, and Helium I think really

507
00:26:09.359 --> 00:26:11.039
<v Speaker 1>the first to sort of blow it open in a

508
00:26:11.039 --> 00:26:14.720
<v Speaker 1>reasonable way right where you or I or anyone can

509
00:26:15.200 --> 00:26:18.000
<v Speaker 1>operate a miniature cell tower but basically in our house

510
00:26:18.079 --> 00:26:21.799
<v Speaker 1>or in our business, and we will make money every

511
00:26:21.839 --> 00:26:24.519
<v Speaker 1>time someone connects to that cell to out right, and

512
00:26:24.559 --> 00:26:28.160
<v Speaker 1>like so anytime someone is nearby watching Netflix or whatever

513
00:26:28.160 --> 00:26:32.160
<v Speaker 1>they're doing, you are getting paid every time the user

514
00:26:32.240 --> 00:26:35.680
<v Speaker 1>is doing that right, and that at the highest level

515
00:26:35.720 --> 00:26:39.359
<v Speaker 1>is what is what Helium is all about. We've done

516
00:26:39.359 --> 00:26:42.119
<v Speaker 1>these deals as you've seen with you know, T Mobile,

517
00:26:42.160 --> 00:26:45.519
<v Speaker 1>AT and T Telefonica. There are others that we haven't

518
00:26:45.519 --> 00:26:50.759
<v Speaker 1>announced yet, and they are you know, effectively a way

519
00:26:50.920 --> 00:26:55.440
<v Speaker 1>for for example, AT and T subscribers to automatically use Helium. Right,

520
00:26:55.519 --> 00:26:57.880
<v Speaker 1>so if you're an AT and T user, there's no

521
00:26:58.559 --> 00:27:00.680
<v Speaker 1>affirmative action that you have to take. You don't have

522
00:27:00.720 --> 00:27:02.720
<v Speaker 1>to find the Helium network and join it. You don't

523
00:27:02.759 --> 00:27:07.960
<v Speaker 1>have to do anything. Your phone will authenticate with Helium

524
00:27:08.079 --> 00:27:11.880
<v Speaker 1>using it simcard and automatically join and automatically connect and

525
00:27:11.920 --> 00:27:15.000
<v Speaker 1>start sending data through the Helium network whenever it's available

526
00:27:15.680 --> 00:27:18.079
<v Speaker 1>because it's cheaper. It's cheaper for AT and T to

527
00:27:18.119 --> 00:27:21.359
<v Speaker 1>do it. That way, we can create coverage in places

528
00:27:21.359 --> 00:27:24.480
<v Speaker 1>where AT and T can't really reasonably go and do it, right,

529
00:27:24.559 --> 00:27:27.440
<v Speaker 1>Like they're not going to go and deploy a you know,

530
00:27:27.599 --> 00:27:30.960
<v Speaker 1>small cell or cell tower or something in a Starbucks, right,

531
00:27:31.240 --> 00:27:35.480
<v Speaker 1>and so you know, so that's where Helium sort of fits.

532
00:27:35.599 --> 00:27:39.880
<v Speaker 1>Like over time, what we see now is almost ninety

533
00:27:39.920 --> 00:27:42.359
<v Speaker 1>percent of cell phone traffic, you know, at least in

534
00:27:42.400 --> 00:27:45.440
<v Speaker 1>the United States, it's happening indoors, right, And so it's

535
00:27:45.839 --> 00:27:49.359
<v Speaker 1>less about building like cell tower infrastructure outdoors, you know,

536
00:27:49.440 --> 00:27:52.599
<v Speaker 1>which is still very expensive and very difficult business to

537
00:27:52.640 --> 00:27:56.200
<v Speaker 1>participate in, but much more about capturing people that are

538
00:27:56.200 --> 00:28:00.240
<v Speaker 1>indoors that may not have good service already or knee

539
00:28:00.319 --> 00:28:02.839
<v Speaker 1>cheaper options or whatever it may be. But it's mostly

540
00:28:02.839 --> 00:28:05.240
<v Speaker 1>a coverage game indoors, right, Like, there are plenty of

541
00:28:05.240 --> 00:28:06.920
<v Speaker 1>places that I'm sure you go to and that I

542
00:28:07.000 --> 00:28:09.920
<v Speaker 1>go to that have poor cell service inside, right, and

543
00:28:11.079 --> 00:28:13.319
<v Speaker 1>this Helium is a great way of solving that problem

544
00:28:13.400 --> 00:28:16.359
<v Speaker 1>and also allows for the operator to make money at

545
00:28:16.359 --> 00:28:20.359
<v Speaker 1>the same time, whether that's the business owner or someone independent.

546
00:28:21.720 --> 00:28:25.039
<v Speaker 1>We also run Helium Mobile, which is a cell phone

547
00:28:25.079 --> 00:28:28.519
<v Speaker 1>service that uses Helium. It uses both Helium and T Mobile.

548
00:28:29.319 --> 00:28:31.759
<v Speaker 1>So you could think of Helium Mobile as equivalent to

549
00:28:32.640 --> 00:28:36.119
<v Speaker 1>you know, Mint Mobile or Boost or like you know,

550
00:28:36.319 --> 00:28:38.680
<v Speaker 1>any of those sort of prepaid cell phone plans that

551
00:28:38.720 --> 00:28:42.279
<v Speaker 1>you can buy, except for the fact that firstly there's

552
00:28:42.319 --> 00:28:46.240
<v Speaker 1>a plan which is completely free, and secondly uses a

553
00:28:46.240 --> 00:28:49.680
<v Speaker 1>combination of Helium and T Mobile to provide the network coverage,

554
00:28:49.759 --> 00:28:52.200
<v Speaker 1>rather than something like Mint which would only use T

555
00:28:52.319 --> 00:28:54.559
<v Speaker 1>Mobile's network and sort of be stuck with their pricing.

556
00:28:55.119 --> 00:28:57.359
<v Speaker 1>So that's you know, Helium sort of has two ends,

557
00:28:57.359 --> 00:29:01.440
<v Speaker 1>the network building side and then the Heliumobile the subscribers

558
00:29:01.440 --> 00:29:02.599
<v Speaker 1>service on the other side.

559
00:29:03.160 --> 00:29:05.480
<v Speaker 3>How are you able to offer free service?

560
00:29:06.960 --> 00:29:08.920
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean that was one of the interesting I

561
00:29:08.920 --> 00:29:11.079
<v Speaker 1>think revelations for us. I mean, at first, when we

562
00:29:11.160 --> 00:29:15.039
<v Speaker 1>launched Helium Mobile, we made it very cryptocentric, right We

563
00:29:15.440 --> 00:29:18.119
<v Speaker 1>as part of using the service, you would earn crypto,

564
00:29:18.200 --> 00:29:20.720
<v Speaker 1>for example, in the in the background, And I think

565
00:29:20.799 --> 00:29:24.680
<v Speaker 1>that's that's super interesting. It just I don't know how

566
00:29:24.720 --> 00:29:27.240
<v Speaker 1>to say this in the most in the nicest way possible.

567
00:29:27.519 --> 00:29:30.160
<v Speaker 1>It attracts a certain type of user who only cares

568
00:29:30.200 --> 00:29:33.880
<v Speaker 1>about earning crypto. As soon as the crypto price changes,

569
00:29:33.920 --> 00:29:36.079
<v Speaker 1>they're like up in arms and like, you know, like

570
00:29:36.480 --> 00:29:38.400
<v Speaker 1>can't stand it, or if they earned less than they

571
00:29:38.400 --> 00:29:41.599
<v Speaker 1>did yesterday or whatever, it's a disaster. And so you

572
00:29:41.640 --> 00:29:46.200
<v Speaker 1>know it it also, you know, anytime you have these

573
00:29:46.240 --> 00:29:48.440
<v Speaker 1>kind of incentives, whether it's in crypto or not, you

574
00:29:48.559 --> 00:29:52.640
<v Speaker 1>get everyone trying to game the system somehow, and that

575
00:29:52.799 --> 00:29:55.079
<v Speaker 1>is like just taken to the to the nth degree

576
00:29:55.200 --> 00:29:57.559
<v Speaker 1>when it comes to crypto. And so that was the

577
00:29:57.559 --> 00:29:59.720
<v Speaker 1>first version of Heliumobile is like let's make it a

578
00:29:59.720 --> 00:30:01.880
<v Speaker 1>compare plan. It's going to be like twenty bucks a

579
00:30:01.880 --> 00:30:05.200
<v Speaker 1>month unlimited, but you're also going to earn crypto if

580
00:30:05.200 --> 00:30:08.039
<v Speaker 1>you if you do this thing called discovery mapping. And

581
00:30:08.119 --> 00:30:12.000
<v Speaker 1>what discovery mapping is is, as part of the Helium

582
00:30:12.000 --> 00:30:14.920
<v Speaker 1>Mobile app on your phone, every time you sort of

583
00:30:14.920 --> 00:30:18.279
<v Speaker 1>are wandering around about your day, you're sort of reporting

584
00:30:18.359 --> 00:30:22.720
<v Speaker 1>back to us or to the Helium network what the

585
00:30:22.839 --> 00:30:25.359
<v Speaker 1>cell service looks like in the area that you're in,

586
00:30:26.000 --> 00:30:28.119
<v Speaker 1>and we can use that data to say like, okay,

587
00:30:28.160 --> 00:30:31.319
<v Speaker 1>there's dead spots here, right or these are areas where

588
00:30:31.359 --> 00:30:33.000
<v Speaker 1>people are spending a lot of time or there's a

589
00:30:33.039 --> 00:30:35.599
<v Speaker 1>lot of foot traffic, and you can sort of using

590
00:30:35.640 --> 00:30:38.079
<v Speaker 1>it as a network planning tool basically. Right, you can say,

591
00:30:38.079 --> 00:30:41.039
<v Speaker 1>like there's a ton of people that are always here, right,

592
00:30:41.160 --> 00:30:43.440
<v Speaker 1>like if there was if there was a hot spot here,

593
00:30:43.759 --> 00:30:46.000
<v Speaker 1>you would be capturing you know, like a ton of use,

594
00:30:46.119 --> 00:30:48.119
<v Speaker 1>you know, a ton of usage from this group of people.

595
00:30:49.240 --> 00:30:51.359
<v Speaker 1>Or we know that there's no cell phone coverage in

596
00:30:51.400 --> 00:30:53.240
<v Speaker 1>the Stomer books over there, Like if someone were to

597
00:30:53.240 --> 00:30:54.839
<v Speaker 1>go put a hot spot in there, you know, they

598
00:30:54.839 --> 00:30:56.720
<v Speaker 1>would also capture a lot of traffic. So that's what

599
00:30:56.759 --> 00:30:59.319
<v Speaker 1>discovery mapping is. It was basically a way to create

600
00:30:59.359 --> 00:31:03.559
<v Speaker 1>decentralized network planning to like figure out where people are

601
00:31:03.599 --> 00:31:06.680
<v Speaker 1>and where people aren't, where cell service exists and where

602
00:31:06.720 --> 00:31:10.000
<v Speaker 1>it doesn't. And that's what you got rewarded for, right,

603
00:31:10.039 --> 00:31:12.559
<v Speaker 1>So the more you discovery map, the more you earned,

604
00:31:14.119 --> 00:31:16.799
<v Speaker 1>the more you earn tokens. And I think that was okay,

605
00:31:17.440 --> 00:31:19.839
<v Speaker 1>it worked well. There's a group of people that's very

606
00:31:19.920 --> 00:31:24.319
<v Speaker 1>upset that we went away from that model, But the

607
00:31:24.359 --> 00:31:28.000
<v Speaker 1>bigger group of people, by many, many, many orders of magnitude,

608
00:31:28.039 --> 00:31:33.240
<v Speaker 1>are still highly skeptical about crypto, and anytime you are

609
00:31:33.279 --> 00:31:36.640
<v Speaker 1>associating crypto with your products, you run a little bit

610
00:31:36.640 --> 00:31:39.480
<v Speaker 1>of that risk. Right. You are no longer just a

611
00:31:39.519 --> 00:31:43.319
<v Speaker 1>phone service, You're like a crypto company, right, and that

612
00:31:43.359 --> 00:31:46.440
<v Speaker 1>creates some level of skepticism. I think that's going to

613
00:31:46.480 --> 00:31:49.440
<v Speaker 1>improve over time, and certainly is improving over time. But

614
00:31:49.519 --> 00:31:51.759
<v Speaker 1>we thought it would make more sense if we hid

615
00:31:51.839 --> 00:31:55.640
<v Speaker 1>the crypto part away from the user, right, So we

616
00:31:55.680 --> 00:31:58.759
<v Speaker 1>would still earn from discovery mapping, so that still happens,

617
00:31:59.200 --> 00:32:02.920
<v Speaker 1>but we would use that to subsidize phone plans basically

618
00:32:02.960 --> 00:32:06.599
<v Speaker 1>and effectively make them free. And that was our way

619
00:32:06.640 --> 00:32:08.880
<v Speaker 1>of like still rewarding the user by doing it in

620
00:32:08.920 --> 00:32:11.799
<v Speaker 1>a completely different way. So rather than like directly giving

621
00:32:11.920 --> 00:32:15.200
<v Speaker 1>users tokens, we now keep those tokens and the user

622
00:32:15.279 --> 00:32:17.680
<v Speaker 1>gets a free phone plan or a discounted phone plan

623
00:32:17.799 --> 00:32:20.640
<v Speaker 1>or whatever out of it. In the back end, you

624
00:32:20.759 --> 00:32:22.680
<v Speaker 1>also points in the same way that you would with

625
00:32:22.680 --> 00:32:25.200
<v Speaker 1>a credit card or an airline, and you can use

626
00:32:25.240 --> 00:32:28.440
<v Speaker 1>those points to buy stuff, right, gift cards, like whatever

627
00:32:28.480 --> 00:32:32.319
<v Speaker 1>it may be. And we think, you know, we think

628
00:32:32.359 --> 00:32:34.680
<v Speaker 1>that's better. We think that's a better model because it

629
00:32:34.720 --> 00:32:37.480
<v Speaker 1>appeals to everyone, right, Like even if you're even if

630
00:32:37.480 --> 00:32:41.400
<v Speaker 1>you're cryptocentric, you understand like what's going on in the background,

631
00:32:41.400 --> 00:32:44.599
<v Speaker 1>and that's interesting to you. If you're not cryptocentric, if

632
00:32:44.640 --> 00:32:47.039
<v Speaker 1>you don't care about crypto, or you don't know about it,

633
00:32:47.119 --> 00:32:49.160
<v Speaker 1>or you think it's a scam or whatever, you still

634
00:32:49.160 --> 00:32:51.039
<v Speaker 1>don't care because you get a free cell phone plan

635
00:32:51.079 --> 00:32:53.680
<v Speaker 1>out of it, right, And so I think that that is,

636
00:32:54.079 --> 00:32:56.880
<v Speaker 1>at least to me, I'm obviously biased, but I think

637
00:32:57.000 --> 00:32:59.319
<v Speaker 1>that is the sort of future of like how you

638
00:32:59.359 --> 00:33:03.799
<v Speaker 1>should apply crypto to consumer businesses is that you you

639
00:33:03.960 --> 00:33:07.880
<v Speaker 1>make them sort of crypto enabled rather than crypto facing

640
00:33:08.000 --> 00:33:12.519
<v Speaker 1>to some extent, and I think that's been wildly successful

641
00:33:13.079 --> 00:33:17.440
<v Speaker 1>for us so far. Here Immobile is growing at an

642
00:33:17.440 --> 00:33:20.279
<v Speaker 1>incredible rate. We're adding two or three thousand subscribers a

643
00:33:20.359 --> 00:33:24.960
<v Speaker 1>day right now, which in some universe doesn't sound like

644
00:33:25.000 --> 00:33:26.720
<v Speaker 1>a lot until you think about the fact that like

645
00:33:26.799 --> 00:33:30.559
<v Speaker 1>AT and T loses fifty thousand prepaid subscribers every quarter

646
00:33:30.839 --> 00:33:33.279
<v Speaker 1>or whatever, right, and so we are. We are growing

647
00:33:33.359 --> 00:33:36.200
<v Speaker 1>very very quickly relative to the rest of the market,

648
00:33:37.880 --> 00:33:40.960
<v Speaker 1>certainly outpacing AT and T team over Izon on when

649
00:33:41.000 --> 00:33:44.359
<v Speaker 1>it comes to prepaid and I'm excited to see how

650
00:33:44.400 --> 00:33:48.839
<v Speaker 1>that how that goes, like whether that is whether this

651
00:33:48.960 --> 00:33:52.480
<v Speaker 1>model of like sort of inverting crypto into something that's

652
00:33:52.480 --> 00:33:55.640
<v Speaker 1>sort of under the hood is the right thing to

653
00:33:55.680 --> 00:33:57.799
<v Speaker 1>do over time or not. Right now, it certainly feels

654
00:33:57.880 --> 00:33:58.240
<v Speaker 1>like it is.

655
00:33:58.920 --> 00:34:01.599
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And I was file question to that is it

656
00:34:01.720 --> 00:34:04.319
<v Speaker 2>seems to your point, you know, how we're using the

657
00:34:04.400 --> 00:34:06.960
<v Speaker 2>internet right now, we're not thinking about TCIP and all

658
00:34:07.000 --> 00:34:09.679
<v Speaker 2>the nuts and bolts and makes it all this work,

659
00:34:09.920 --> 00:34:12.119
<v Speaker 2>just that it works, and the end consumer, the average

660
00:34:12.199 --> 00:34:14.840
<v Speaker 2>Joe and Jane, they don't necessarily need to know about

661
00:34:14.880 --> 00:34:17.159
<v Speaker 2>all these things, just that it works and it's something

662
00:34:17.199 --> 00:34:18.360
<v Speaker 2>better than they've had before.

663
00:34:19.320 --> 00:34:21.519
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And crypto isn't quite there yet, right, I mean,

664
00:34:21.519 --> 00:34:25.239
<v Speaker 1>if you think about l one blockchains, like they should

665
00:34:25.400 --> 00:34:29.079
<v Speaker 1>feel like AWS or Google Cloud or measure so you

666
00:34:29.079 --> 00:34:32.119
<v Speaker 1>don't care, right like I'm not using Instagram because it

667
00:34:32.199 --> 00:34:35.199
<v Speaker 1>runs on AWS, Like I could care less what back

668
00:34:35.360 --> 00:34:39.199
<v Speaker 1>end you know, server or service provider they're using. But

669
00:34:39.280 --> 00:34:43.039
<v Speaker 1>crypto isn't there yet. It's very tribal, and obviously that

670
00:34:43.039 --> 00:34:45.400
<v Speaker 1>comes due to the financial incentive, right Like I own

671
00:34:45.719 --> 00:34:49.239
<v Speaker 1>tokens in Solona whatever, so I want that to succeed

672
00:34:49.320 --> 00:34:54.000
<v Speaker 1>more than I want ethereum to succeed. And I think

673
00:34:54.039 --> 00:34:57.119
<v Speaker 1>that part is, you know, when when Helium was proposing

674
00:34:57.119 --> 00:35:00.000
<v Speaker 1>to migrate away from our l one, you can really

675
00:35:00.119 --> 00:35:03.239
<v Speaker 1>got to see that tribal thing come out. It didn't

676
00:35:03.239 --> 00:35:05.360
<v Speaker 1>matter whether or not it made any sense or not.

677
00:35:05.960 --> 00:35:08.599
<v Speaker 1>People just wanted you to migrate to like whatever l

678
00:35:08.679 --> 00:35:11.039
<v Speaker 1>one blockchain, like they were a token holder that they

679
00:35:11.039 --> 00:35:14.440
<v Speaker 1>were a token slash bag holder of and there was

680
00:35:14.440 --> 00:35:17.119
<v Speaker 1>no logic applied to it whatsoeverage just like either than this,

681
00:35:17.320 --> 00:35:19.679
<v Speaker 1>and therefore you should move to that or you're otherwise

682
00:35:19.679 --> 00:35:21.960
<v Speaker 1>you're a scam. But basically was that was That was

683
00:35:22.000 --> 00:35:24.280
<v Speaker 1>where so Crypto still has a way to go. I

684
00:35:24.280 --> 00:35:27.679
<v Speaker 1>think into what you said is true, but I think

685
00:35:27.760 --> 00:35:30.320
<v Speaker 1>that's where it should go, right, Like Solana should just

686
00:35:30.360 --> 00:35:33.679
<v Speaker 1>be like the better option that you use to deploy

687
00:35:33.719 --> 00:35:37.280
<v Speaker 1>Web three apps, but not really the selling point, you know,

688
00:35:37.440 --> 00:35:41.599
<v Speaker 1>like it and someone had this very good mock, you know,

689
00:35:41.800 --> 00:35:44.480
<v Speaker 1>sort of troll image of like what Netflix would look

690
00:35:44.519 --> 00:35:46.639
<v Speaker 1>like in Web three and it would be like streaming

691
00:35:46.719 --> 00:35:49.679
<v Speaker 1>videos on Solana or something right that, and you know,

692
00:35:49.920 --> 00:35:51.960
<v Speaker 1>and no one really cares about that. No one's watching

693
00:35:52.039 --> 00:35:54.840
<v Speaker 1>Netflix because it because they run their own data center

694
00:35:54.920 --> 00:35:58.199
<v Speaker 1>or they have clever CDNs or whatever. It's just you

695
00:35:58.239 --> 00:36:00.639
<v Speaker 1>want millions of titles like out of the press of

696
00:36:00.639 --> 00:36:03.360
<v Speaker 1>a button, and that's what you're getting, right, And so

697
00:36:03.559 --> 00:36:05.719
<v Speaker 1>there's a ways to go before that's true. I think

698
00:36:05.760 --> 00:36:10.039
<v Speaker 1>the financial incentives make it more complicated to get to

699
00:36:10.079 --> 00:36:12.840
<v Speaker 1>the place that you're describing and the thing that Helium

700
00:36:12.840 --> 00:36:16.159
<v Speaker 1>Mobile is doing. But the thing I love about it

701
00:36:16.199 --> 00:36:19.280
<v Speaker 1>is that we are sort of very much outside of crypto.

702
00:36:19.320 --> 00:36:22.039
<v Speaker 1>I mean, Helium Mobile might be a fifty hundred million

703
00:36:22.079 --> 00:36:27.239
<v Speaker 1>dollar business this year and it is sort of separate

704
00:36:27.280 --> 00:36:30.280
<v Speaker 1>in a way from crypto, but not you know, like

705
00:36:30.320 --> 00:36:33.079
<v Speaker 1>it only exists because of the crypto power behind it,

706
00:36:34.000 --> 00:36:37.000
<v Speaker 1>but the end user doesn't really see or feel that

707
00:36:37.159 --> 00:36:38.920
<v Speaker 1>in any way, Oh for sure.

708
00:36:39.360 --> 00:36:41.880
<v Speaker 2>Now, earlier we were talking about the gaming industry and

709
00:36:41.920 --> 00:36:44.800
<v Speaker 2>the gatekeepers and you know, the incumbents not wanting to

710
00:36:44.840 --> 00:36:49.159
<v Speaker 2>be disrupted. So how were you able to get partnerships

711
00:36:49.159 --> 00:36:52.480
<v Speaker 2>with T Mobile and AT and T huge incumbents.

712
00:36:54.840 --> 00:36:57.920
<v Speaker 1>You know, I think these companies are smarter than they

713
00:36:57.920 --> 00:37:02.760
<v Speaker 1>were in the past, right, Like they see this as

714
00:37:02.800 --> 00:37:05.440
<v Speaker 1>for what it's worth. I would still be surprised if

715
00:37:05.440 --> 00:37:08.280
<v Speaker 1>any of these companies thought of Helium or anyone else

716
00:37:08.280 --> 00:37:11.880
<v Speaker 1>in the deep in space in a very very serious way.

717
00:37:12.719 --> 00:37:15.000
<v Speaker 1>I think it's all very interesting to them, and we

718
00:37:15.119 --> 00:37:19.239
<v Speaker 1>are providing some value to them that is growing over time,

719
00:37:19.440 --> 00:37:21.960
<v Speaker 1>but it's still very much, I think, an experiment for

720
00:37:22.280 --> 00:37:26.639
<v Speaker 1>those guys. And the reason I think it's interesting is

721
00:37:26.639 --> 00:37:30.079
<v Speaker 1>is it makes obvious sense, right, Like, of course this

722
00:37:30.119 --> 00:37:33.239
<v Speaker 1>would be a better way of deploying a wireless network

723
00:37:33.280 --> 00:37:36.559
<v Speaker 1>than spending you know, one hundred and fifty billion dollars,

724
00:37:36.760 --> 00:37:39.079
<v Speaker 1>you know, building cell towers and going you know and

725
00:37:39.119 --> 00:37:42.119
<v Speaker 1>installing in every single location with fiber backle and all

726
00:37:42.159 --> 00:37:45.800
<v Speaker 1>of this stuff. Like that's obviously not going to be

727
00:37:45.880 --> 00:37:50.360
<v Speaker 1>the way forward, you know, And some of that is cost,

728
00:37:50.519 --> 00:37:52.719
<v Speaker 1>and some of that is technology, right, like things like

729
00:37:52.840 --> 00:37:56.519
<v Speaker 1>pass Point, which is the technology that we use that

730
00:37:56.679 --> 00:37:59.280
<v Speaker 1>allows what I described where an AT and T subscriber

731
00:37:59.320 --> 00:38:01.480
<v Speaker 1>will just jump on and off to the Healium network

732
00:38:01.480 --> 00:38:03.960
<v Speaker 1>without having to like authenticate or go through a portal

733
00:38:04.079 --> 00:38:07.519
<v Speaker 1>or do any of that stuff. You know. Pass Point

734
00:38:07.599 --> 00:38:10.000
<v Speaker 1>is a pretty old technology. It's at least a decade old,

735
00:38:10.039 --> 00:38:14.320
<v Speaker 1>but it's only recently started to become widely adopted. And

736
00:38:14.360 --> 00:38:16.920
<v Speaker 1>then Wi Fi has greatly improved, you know, especially with

737
00:38:16.920 --> 00:38:20.280
<v Speaker 1>Wi Fi six, WiFi seven, you know, like that has

738
00:38:20.320 --> 00:38:24.440
<v Speaker 1>allowed companies like ours and other deep end players to

739
00:38:24.559 --> 00:38:28.679
<v Speaker 1>like very very cheaply deploy network coverage that's really really useful,

740
00:38:29.000 --> 00:38:30.719
<v Speaker 1>you know, like a Wi Fi access point or a

741
00:38:30.719 --> 00:38:33.639
<v Speaker 1>hot spot of hours can support hundreds or of thousands

742
00:38:34.159 --> 00:38:37.639
<v Speaker 1>of simultaneous users, but the device itself might only cost

743
00:38:37.639 --> 00:38:40.679
<v Speaker 1>a couple hundred bucks, right, And so it's a completely

744
00:38:40.679 --> 00:38:44.079
<v Speaker 1>different paradigm than what the teleco industry has been used to.

745
00:38:44.719 --> 00:38:46.719
<v Speaker 1>And so I think they're curious about that, and it's

746
00:38:46.760 --> 00:38:49.400
<v Speaker 1>interesting and I have to imagine this part of everyone

747
00:38:49.440 --> 00:38:51.079
<v Speaker 1>who looks at this and says, what if this is?

748
00:38:51.320 --> 00:38:53.920
<v Speaker 1>What if this is uber to taxi cabs? Right, Like,

749
00:38:54.119 --> 00:38:58.079
<v Speaker 1>what if that's what's about to happen, and it's what

750
00:38:58.159 --> 00:39:02.039
<v Speaker 1>should happen. And I think those that are early on

751
00:39:02.079 --> 00:39:04.159
<v Speaker 1>it and paying attention to it at least have that

752
00:39:04.239 --> 00:39:06.559
<v Speaker 1>curiosity in their mind that like, Okay, this could be

753
00:39:07.119 --> 00:39:10.239
<v Speaker 1>this could be how tel code networks get deployed in

754
00:39:10.280 --> 00:39:13.119
<v Speaker 1>the future going forward, and the way we've been doing

755
00:39:13.119 --> 00:39:15.000
<v Speaker 1>it in the past is all wrong, which is a

756
00:39:15.000 --> 00:39:16.800
<v Speaker 1>bit which is a huge win for them, right because

757
00:39:16.840 --> 00:39:20.119
<v Speaker 1>populations are still expanding, they're still moving. So it's not

758
00:39:20.159 --> 00:39:22.400
<v Speaker 1>like you've built your wireless network and now you're done.

759
00:39:22.519 --> 00:39:25.440
<v Speaker 1>Like it's a constant job, right, Like you're constantly having

760
00:39:25.480 --> 00:39:29.639
<v Speaker 1>to build more coverage and more capacity and that's expensive,

761
00:39:29.920 --> 00:39:32.639
<v Speaker 1>you know, as is maintaining your existing network. And so

762
00:39:32.840 --> 00:39:36.519
<v Speaker 1>I think everyone is interested in different models and different

763
00:39:36.519 --> 00:39:39.719
<v Speaker 1>ways to build network coverage that their customers can use.

764
00:39:40.679 --> 00:39:43.159
<v Speaker 1>And starlink is probably the best example of that, right

765
00:39:43.320 --> 00:39:48.199
<v Speaker 1>where starlink should over time render outdoor cell towers like

766
00:39:48.280 --> 00:39:52.880
<v Speaker 1>completely obsolete over time? Why would you do that? And

767
00:39:52.920 --> 00:39:55.039
<v Speaker 1>so I think there's a lot of interesting stuff happening

768
00:39:55.559 --> 00:39:57.519
<v Speaker 1>and it's a super exciting time to be involved in

769
00:39:57.519 --> 00:39:59.519
<v Speaker 1>that industry.

770
00:39:59.599 --> 00:40:03.519
<v Speaker 2>You know, you mentioned we were talking somebody's analogies and

771
00:40:03.599 --> 00:40:05.079
<v Speaker 2>you know Netflix and Blockbuster.

772
00:40:05.639 --> 00:40:07.880
<v Speaker 3>So let's say AT and T or a team all

773
00:40:07.920 --> 00:40:08.920
<v Speaker 3>were like, you know what.

774
00:40:09.719 --> 00:40:13.400
<v Speaker 2>We see this as the Netflix, right and the direction

775
00:40:13.519 --> 00:40:16.239
<v Speaker 2>things are heading in, and we want to acquire helium.

776
00:40:16.440 --> 00:40:18.840
<v Speaker 2>Would you would you sell to them?

777
00:40:19.400 --> 00:40:22.639
<v Speaker 1>I don't know, I mean, certainly some of those conversations

778
00:40:22.679 --> 00:40:27.159
<v Speaker 1>have come up. I don't I don't know. I mean

779
00:40:27.800 --> 00:40:30.400
<v Speaker 1>just personally, like I don't know what I'm even do

780
00:40:30.480 --> 00:40:32.559
<v Speaker 1>in that situation, Like I couldn't imagine myself working for

781
00:40:32.639 --> 00:40:36.719
<v Speaker 1>AT and T, so that would be a would be

782
00:40:36.760 --> 00:40:42.920
<v Speaker 1>a challenge, you know. I think the best way I

783
00:40:42.960 --> 00:40:45.119
<v Speaker 1>think I could answer that question is that one of

784
00:40:45.159 --> 00:40:47.639
<v Speaker 1>the things I hope for crypto to do the best

785
00:40:47.679 --> 00:40:52.000
<v Speaker 1>of all is change capital markets right so that you

786
00:40:52.039 --> 00:40:54.400
<v Speaker 1>don't need to be acquired, you don't need to IPO,

787
00:40:54.719 --> 00:40:57.880
<v Speaker 1>you don't you know, their liquidity exists in this public

788
00:40:58.000 --> 00:41:02.639
<v Speaker 1>universe that is accessible to everyone. And it's been really

789
00:41:02.719 --> 00:41:05.679
<v Speaker 1>really cool to see the SEC starting to focus and

790
00:41:05.719 --> 00:41:10.239
<v Speaker 1>talk about tokenizing equity for example. It's a thing I'm

791
00:41:10.400 --> 00:41:13.480
<v Speaker 1>super interested in because we are we have a sort

792
00:41:13.519 --> 00:41:15.760
<v Speaker 1>of unique business where there's a crypto part of it,

793
00:41:15.800 --> 00:41:17.760
<v Speaker 1>but there's also a sort of off chain part of

794
00:41:17.760 --> 00:41:21.239
<v Speaker 1>it which generates a lot of revenue, And is there

795
00:41:21.280 --> 00:41:23.480
<v Speaker 1>a way to sort of merge those two things together

796
00:41:23.639 --> 00:41:26.840
<v Speaker 1>so that token holders can participate in the equity side

797
00:41:26.880 --> 00:41:29.760
<v Speaker 1>of the business somehow, which typically is impossible, but like

798
00:41:29.760 --> 00:41:31.559
<v Speaker 1>you have to either IPO, you have to be an

799
00:41:31.559 --> 00:41:34.159
<v Speaker 1>a credited investor that gets into these deals somehow, and

800
00:41:34.360 --> 00:41:37.800
<v Speaker 1>it's not a deal. So the thing that I hope

801
00:41:37.800 --> 00:41:40.880
<v Speaker 1>most of all is that crypto like democratizes access to

802
00:41:41.039 --> 00:41:45.239
<v Speaker 1>wealth basically, right, because it is wildly unfair that you know,

803
00:41:45.559 --> 00:41:48.119
<v Speaker 1>me or vcs or whatever, you get really access to

804
00:41:48.159 --> 00:41:51.440
<v Speaker 1>a lot of these companies. By the time they IPO,

805
00:41:51.760 --> 00:41:54.360
<v Speaker 1>everyone's already rich, like you are way down, like you

806
00:41:54.519 --> 00:41:58.079
<v Speaker 1>regular person are so far down the line now, and

807
00:41:58.119 --> 00:42:01.320
<v Speaker 1>everyone else has already made ten thousand x learn investment, right,

808
00:42:01.360 --> 00:42:04.000
<v Speaker 1>And so I've never liked that. I've always thought that

809
00:42:04.039 --> 00:42:07.119
<v Speaker 1>was elitist. I've always thought the accredited investor laws around,

810
00:42:07.159 --> 00:42:08.760
<v Speaker 1>like you must make one hundred and fifty grand or

811
00:42:08.760 --> 00:42:10.480
<v Speaker 1>two under and fifty grand or whatever it is a year,

812
00:42:11.440 --> 00:42:13.920
<v Speaker 1>is just a dumb way of like deciding who should

813
00:42:13.920 --> 00:42:16.280
<v Speaker 1>get to invest in what. Let me invest in whatever

814
00:42:16.320 --> 00:42:18.920
<v Speaker 1>I feel like investing in, right, And so that's what

815
00:42:19.000 --> 00:42:21.920
<v Speaker 1>I hope happens the long way of answering your question.

816
00:42:22.000 --> 00:42:24.599
<v Speaker 1>But I would hope ultimately that Helium never has to

817
00:42:24.639 --> 00:42:29.159
<v Speaker 1>be acquired because that market infrastructure exists and we just

818
00:42:29.320 --> 00:42:32.360
<v Speaker 1>use that rather than needing to be acquired or go

819
00:42:32.440 --> 00:42:33.800
<v Speaker 1>public or whatever it may be.

820
00:42:34.400 --> 00:42:36.960
<v Speaker 2>Oh for sure, now I know we're coming up on time,

821
00:42:37.039 --> 00:42:39.320
<v Speaker 2>so I want to make sure I get that here.

822
00:42:39.800 --> 00:42:42.119
<v Speaker 2>There was news of expansion to Mexico. Tell us about

823
00:42:42.159 --> 00:42:44.719
<v Speaker 2>your coverage globally, and you know which markets you're in.

824
00:42:45.840 --> 00:42:48.440
<v Speaker 1>Today we're only in the US and Mexico. And we're

825
00:42:48.480 --> 00:42:50.119
<v Speaker 1>trying to be a little bit more strategic than we

826
00:42:50.119 --> 00:42:52.320
<v Speaker 1>were in the IoT days, where IoT was like just

827
00:42:52.360 --> 00:42:55.440
<v Speaker 1>put this thing anywhere, anything anywhere, right, And I think

828
00:42:55.519 --> 00:42:59.320
<v Speaker 1>that's interesting. But in the cell phone or the mobile universe,

829
00:42:59.440 --> 00:43:02.599
<v Speaker 1>you kind of want a partner to bring the subscribers,

830
00:43:02.760 --> 00:43:04.760
<v Speaker 1>or you have a plan to get your own subscribers,

831
00:43:04.800 --> 00:43:07.719
<v Speaker 1>like we do in the US. So in Mexico we

832
00:43:08.159 --> 00:43:11.239
<v Speaker 1>have this deal that we do with Telefonica. Most Americans

833
00:43:11.239 --> 00:43:15.880
<v Speaker 1>probably Telefonica, but they're an enormous global telecom based in Spain.

834
00:43:17.079 --> 00:43:22.159
<v Speaker 1>They operate a subsidiary called movis Star in Mexico. And

835
00:43:22.199 --> 00:43:25.800
<v Speaker 1>they think they were like today we have to pay

836
00:43:26.119 --> 00:43:28.719
<v Speaker 1>AT and T and tell sell and others to access

837
00:43:28.760 --> 00:43:32.000
<v Speaker 1>their towers and it's expensive and we don't want to

838
00:43:32.000 --> 00:43:34.440
<v Speaker 1>build our own towers. So what can you do for us?

839
00:43:34.480 --> 00:43:37.519
<v Speaker 1>And so we did this pilot with them for several months.

840
00:43:38.320 --> 00:43:42.440
<v Speaker 1>We sort of took over like a city Wahaka. And

841
00:43:43.320 --> 00:43:45.679
<v Speaker 1>I think because there's always skepticism or like no one

842
00:43:45.719 --> 00:43:47.840
<v Speaker 1>believes that what we're doing is real or not or

843
00:43:47.920 --> 00:43:50.039
<v Speaker 1>that or that it works so that it works well.

844
00:43:51.199 --> 00:43:52.920
<v Speaker 1>And so it took a few months of doing these

845
00:43:52.960 --> 00:43:55.360
<v Speaker 1>trials and they I think, we're very excited about what

846
00:43:55.400 --> 00:43:59.480
<v Speaker 1>they saw. And so now we're expanding sort of all

847
00:43:59.519 --> 00:44:02.199
<v Speaker 1>over mex and I think we will start to see

848
00:44:02.199 --> 00:44:06.400
<v Speaker 1>subscribers go live in Q three, I think, I think

849
00:44:06.519 --> 00:44:08.280
<v Speaker 1>is the intention. And when I say go to live,

850
00:44:08.360 --> 00:44:13.320
<v Speaker 1>I mean the Movistar Telephonica subscribers in Mexico will automatically

851
00:44:13.320 --> 00:44:15.119
<v Speaker 1>start to use the Helium network. They won't have to

852
00:44:15.199 --> 00:44:17.000
<v Speaker 1>join anything, they won't have to opt in, they won't

853
00:44:17.000 --> 00:44:19.960
<v Speaker 1>have to do anything. And so that's, you know, that's

854
00:44:19.960 --> 00:44:21.960
<v Speaker 1>what's happening, and we hope to see that light up

855
00:44:21.960 --> 00:44:22.360
<v Speaker 1>this year.

856
00:44:23.119 --> 00:44:23.840
<v Speaker 3>That's exciting.

857
00:44:24.920 --> 00:44:26.599
<v Speaker 2>Is there anything else on your rolemap you want to

858
00:44:26.679 --> 00:44:30.119
<v Speaker 2>highlight anything aside from the you know, going to Mexico

859
00:44:30.159 --> 00:44:30.639
<v Speaker 2>and much more.

860
00:44:31.840 --> 00:44:36.480
<v Speaker 1>I mean we're running past right like we're growing. I

861
00:44:36.480 --> 00:44:38.599
<v Speaker 1>think Crypto again in one of those places where like

862
00:44:38.639 --> 00:44:40.840
<v Speaker 1>everyone's always looking for the next big announcement or the

863
00:44:40.880 --> 00:44:44.039
<v Speaker 1>next big thing, and you know, arguably we're in sort

864
00:44:44.039 --> 00:44:46.679
<v Speaker 1>of the boring phase where product seems to be working

865
00:44:46.760 --> 00:44:48.599
<v Speaker 1>and is just growing, and so there's a lot of

866
00:44:49.000 --> 00:44:51.960
<v Speaker 1>you know, boring stuff going on like supports right and

867
00:44:52.239 --> 00:44:54.599
<v Speaker 1>things like that to keep up with with all of

868
00:44:54.639 --> 00:44:57.559
<v Speaker 1>the customers that we're wing. But that's you know, that's

869
00:44:57.599 --> 00:44:59.360
<v Speaker 1>where we focused. We want to we want to go

870
00:44:59.599 --> 00:45:04.559
<v Speaker 1>larger in terms of subscriber base, will the network to

871
00:45:04.599 --> 00:45:08.039
<v Speaker 1>be larger. I want to work with more vendors in

872
00:45:08.079 --> 00:45:11.039
<v Speaker 1>these ecosystems, whether that's Wi Fi, access point vendors or

873
00:45:11.280 --> 00:45:14.400
<v Speaker 1>telecoms like AT and T. We're spending a lot of

874
00:45:14.400 --> 00:45:17.920
<v Speaker 1>time on that sort of business development work, and we

875
00:45:18.000 --> 00:45:19.840
<v Speaker 1>got a lot of stuff going on on the token

876
00:45:19.920 --> 00:45:22.519
<v Speaker 1>side that we've been spending time thinking about, like the

877
00:45:23.360 --> 00:45:26.639
<v Speaker 1>tokenizing equity thing that we're describing. I really want to

878
00:45:26.679 --> 00:45:29.519
<v Speaker 1>find a way to sort of blend those two ideas

879
00:45:29.559 --> 00:45:32.239
<v Speaker 1>together where you don't have HNT and you don't have

880
00:45:32.679 --> 00:45:36.480
<v Speaker 1>herely immobile equity is two separate things that they are

881
00:45:36.519 --> 00:45:39.079
<v Speaker 1>sort of congruent and a singular thing is a thing

882
00:45:39.119 --> 00:45:40.960
<v Speaker 1>that I really want to spend some time on that

883
00:45:41.000 --> 00:45:43.360
<v Speaker 1>I don't think we could have done in the prior

884
00:45:43.480 --> 00:45:47.559
<v Speaker 1>SEC administration that that we can do now. So that's

885
00:45:47.639 --> 00:45:49.480
<v Speaker 1>kind of where we're going, is that we're just trying

886
00:45:49.480 --> 00:45:52.079
<v Speaker 1>to grow more and more and more. I don't have

887
00:45:52.119 --> 00:45:55.400
<v Speaker 1>a crazy announcement for you about like launching satellites or

888
00:45:55.400 --> 00:45:59.599
<v Speaker 1>anything like that. We're just getting bigger and bigger. You'll

889
00:45:59.599 --> 00:46:02.239
<v Speaker 1>start to see on May nineteenth, we are sort of

890
00:46:02.280 --> 00:46:04.559
<v Speaker 1>taking over in New York, so you'll see subway comers

891
00:46:04.599 --> 00:46:08.320
<v Speaker 1>covered in Heliumobile and you'll see billboards and stuff everywhere.

892
00:46:08.360 --> 00:46:12.719
<v Speaker 1>So really trying to push pretty hard on customer acquisition

893
00:46:12.840 --> 00:46:14.920
<v Speaker 1>and sort of growing a Helium Mobile as one of

894
00:46:14.920 --> 00:46:17.280
<v Speaker 1>the largest telcos in the country.

895
00:46:17.800 --> 00:46:18.280
<v Speaker 3>Amazing.

896
00:46:18.320 --> 00:46:19.920
<v Speaker 2>So I'm close to New York, so I'll definitely be

897
00:46:20.000 --> 00:46:23.119
<v Speaker 2>looking out for those as and things along those lines.

898
00:46:23.639 --> 00:46:25.719
<v Speaker 2>You know, you mentioned the SEC and the change in

899
00:46:25.760 --> 00:46:29.000
<v Speaker 2>the regime, you know, with the government much more pro crypto,

900
00:46:29.079 --> 00:46:32.280
<v Speaker 2>and I feel like entrepreneurs and innovators are breathing a

901
00:46:32.320 --> 00:46:35.280
<v Speaker 2>sigh relief and they can focus on building and doing

902
00:46:35.360 --> 00:46:38.400
<v Speaker 2>their thing. How are you feeling about this change and

903
00:46:38.480 --> 00:46:41.159
<v Speaker 2>are you optimistic you know, Congress can get legislation through

904
00:46:41.159 --> 00:46:41.519
<v Speaker 2>this year.

905
00:46:43.679 --> 00:46:46.440
<v Speaker 1>Overall, it's feeling very good about the changes in the SEC.

906
00:46:47.719 --> 00:46:50.440
<v Speaker 1>Like it's great to have Hester Pierce running the Crypto

907
00:46:50.480 --> 00:46:53.599
<v Speaker 1>task where she for those that don't know, everyone used

908
00:46:53.599 --> 00:46:56.440
<v Speaker 1>to call a crypto Mama. She is like the you know,

909
00:46:56.519 --> 00:46:58.920
<v Speaker 1>she is the most pro crypto person at the SEC

910
00:46:59.039 --> 00:47:02.280
<v Speaker 1>and has been for a long time. I'm very very smart.

911
00:47:02.280 --> 00:47:04.639
<v Speaker 1>I've met with her before. I think she thinks she's awesome.

912
00:47:05.559 --> 00:47:07.559
<v Speaker 1>So I'm very optimistic about where that's going to go.

913
00:47:08.440 --> 00:47:11.400
<v Speaker 1>Certainly less optimistic about what happens in Congress, Like it

914
00:47:11.400 --> 00:47:14.760
<v Speaker 1>still seems to be very politically motivated. No one's making

915
00:47:14.760 --> 00:47:17.599
<v Speaker 1>decisions because they're good decisions. They're just making decisions because

916
00:47:17.599 --> 00:47:21.440
<v Speaker 1>they may make someone look good or bad. But I'm

917
00:47:21.440 --> 00:47:26.199
<v Speaker 1>still optimistic there in general, Like I think, you know,

918
00:47:26.239 --> 00:47:28.360
<v Speaker 1>I want to see like the stable coind of legislation

919
00:47:28.400 --> 00:47:32.039
<v Speaker 1>get through, for example, and anything that makes it easier

920
00:47:32.119 --> 00:47:37.320
<v Speaker 1>for crypto to be also more legitimized but also more accessible,

921
00:47:38.440 --> 00:47:41.000
<v Speaker 1>I think is very important. And I'm really hopeful that

922
00:47:41.039 --> 00:47:45.000
<v Speaker 1>we move out of this sort of crime era a

923
00:47:45.039 --> 00:47:48.000
<v Speaker 1>little bit. It's still it's still a very sort of

924
00:47:48.079 --> 00:47:52.480
<v Speaker 1>pump and dump driven universe, and I think that's just

925
00:47:52.559 --> 00:47:55.199
<v Speaker 1>tough for retail guys, right, Like, we live in this

926
00:47:55.280 --> 00:47:57.519
<v Speaker 1>world and we sort of understand what to avoid and

927
00:47:57.960 --> 00:48:00.599
<v Speaker 1>not avoid. But I think newcomers coming to the outside

928
00:48:00.639 --> 00:48:03.199
<v Speaker 1>everything looks like doge to them. Yeah, I might. I

929
00:48:03.280 --> 00:48:05.239
<v Speaker 1>might make one hundred million dollars on this thing, right,

930
00:48:05.280 --> 00:48:07.880
<v Speaker 1>and I think a lot of money gets lost that way,

931
00:48:08.159 --> 00:48:11.199
<v Speaker 1>so I hope he steals. SEC still stays very focused

932
00:48:11.239 --> 00:48:16.199
<v Speaker 1>on fraud on bad actors because they really genuinely like

933
00:48:16.320 --> 00:48:18.880
<v Speaker 1>ruin it for everyone that's that's working hard to try

934
00:48:18.880 --> 00:48:21.320
<v Speaker 1>and do real things. And there's a lot of us

935
00:48:21.599 --> 00:48:23.559
<v Speaker 1>in the industry working hard to do real things. So

936
00:48:24.039 --> 00:48:26.480
<v Speaker 1>I'm optimistic for that, looking forward to it.

937
00:48:26.880 --> 00:48:31.599
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, great point, great point. Wrap up questions here for you. First,

938
00:48:31.679 --> 00:48:33.760
<v Speaker 2>if you could create your own metaverse, what would the

939
00:48:33.760 --> 00:48:34.079
<v Speaker 2>theme be.

940
00:48:35.280 --> 00:48:37.679
<v Speaker 1>I would have to be something racing related that like

941
00:48:37.760 --> 00:48:41.440
<v Speaker 1>cars and racing very very much, my very much my pattern,

942
00:48:41.480 --> 00:48:44.119
<v Speaker 1>So definitely car racing related for sure.

943
00:48:45.000 --> 00:48:46.639
<v Speaker 2>I don't know if you've seen it. There's a F

944
00:48:46.719 --> 00:48:48.519
<v Speaker 2>one movie coming out with Brad Pitt. I don't know

945
00:48:48.559 --> 00:48:49.559
<v Speaker 2>if you're looking forward to that.

946
00:48:50.320 --> 00:48:52.440
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I think it looks super cool. They spend a

947
00:48:52.440 --> 00:48:54.559
<v Speaker 1>lot of time being precise about you know, they did

948
00:48:54.599 --> 00:48:56.760
<v Speaker 1>a lot of the filming at real F one races,

949
00:48:56.800 --> 00:49:00.400
<v Speaker 1>and I don't know how good are that it's going

950
00:49:00.480 --> 00:49:02.800
<v Speaker 1>to be, but it's awesome to see it, and I

951
00:49:02.840 --> 00:49:05.239
<v Speaker 1>think it will just bring more interest to f one,

952
00:49:05.360 --> 00:49:07.559
<v Speaker 1>especially in America, which I think is which I think

953
00:49:07.639 --> 00:49:08.119
<v Speaker 1>is awesome.

954
00:49:08.440 --> 00:49:11.599
<v Speaker 3>Oh for sure. Rapid fire questions. Favorite food.

955
00:49:13.079 --> 00:49:16.360
<v Speaker 1>Have to be something Indian, maybe a Panier tika masala

956
00:49:16.440 --> 00:49:18.400
<v Speaker 1>or something like that. Love it nice.

957
00:49:18.639 --> 00:49:20.039
<v Speaker 3>Favorite musician or band.

958
00:49:22.280 --> 00:49:23.960
<v Speaker 1>I would have to go back to the nineties, but

959
00:49:24.000 --> 00:49:27.280
<v Speaker 1>probably like Guns N' Roses, skid Row, like Metallica, like

960
00:49:27.320 --> 00:49:28.760
<v Speaker 1>something in that something in that era.

961
00:49:29.480 --> 00:49:31.639
<v Speaker 3>Nice. Favorite movie.

962
00:49:33.039 --> 00:49:37.400
<v Speaker 1>Gotta be Inception or Interstellar, anything that Christopher Nolan makes.

963
00:49:37.400 --> 00:49:38.840
<v Speaker 1>He's just a genius.

964
00:49:39.320 --> 00:49:41.760
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I love all this movies. Favorite book.

965
00:49:43.159 --> 00:49:45.519
<v Speaker 1>I'm not much of a book reader. I did start

966
00:49:45.519 --> 00:49:50.280
<v Speaker 1>reading Wool recently, which is the book about that the

967
00:49:50.360 --> 00:49:53.159
<v Speaker 1>Silo TV show is based on. And if you've seen that,

968
00:49:53.599 --> 00:49:56.320
<v Speaker 1>Silo a great show on Apple TV, but it was

969
00:49:56.320 --> 00:49:58.119
<v Speaker 1>based on a book and I did just start reading

970
00:49:58.119 --> 00:49:59.760
<v Speaker 1>the book. Not much of a book person.

971
00:50:00.480 --> 00:50:03.239
<v Speaker 3>I'll check that out. And when you're not working at Helium,

972
00:50:03.239 --> 00:50:04.039
<v Speaker 3>what are you doing for fun?

973
00:50:06.239 --> 00:50:08.880
<v Speaker 1>Recently started playing golf, which has been awesome. I hadn't

974
00:50:08.880 --> 00:50:10.880
<v Speaker 1>played since high school, so I've been really enjoying that.

975
00:50:12.559 --> 00:50:15.800
<v Speaker 1>I raced cars. I work on congers is my thing,

976
00:50:16.400 --> 00:50:19.239
<v Speaker 1>so most of the time if I'm not practicing golf

977
00:50:19.320 --> 00:50:21.800
<v Speaker 1>or something. I'll be doing something car related for sure.

978
00:50:22.679 --> 00:50:25.440
<v Speaker 2>Awesome, Amir, A pleasure chatting with you. I got to

979
00:50:25.480 --> 00:50:28.719
<v Speaker 2>have you back on I'm really fascinated by Helium and

980
00:50:29.400 --> 00:50:31.239
<v Speaker 2>maybe the next one we could try to do in person.

981
00:50:31.280 --> 00:50:32.719
<v Speaker 3>But thank you so much for joining me.

982
00:50:33.280 --> 00:50:35.400
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, thank you. Would love to do it again. Appreciate it.