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<v Speaker 1>Jenline says, as far as the weather goes anyway, partly

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<v Speaker 1>cloudy Skuy's breezing high sixty four today, rain possible after

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<v Speaker 1>eight pm tomorrow with an overnight low forty. Partly cloudy

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<v Speaker 1>sky's tomorrow during the day fifty four for the high.

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<v Speaker 1>You may get some evening rain on your drive home tomorrow.

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<v Speaker 1>Tomorrow's high or low overnight thirty one and a high

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<v Speaker 1>have fifty on Friday with partly cloudy sky's thirty five degrees. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>let's hear about traffic from chuck Ingram from the UCF

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<v Speaker 1>Traffics Center. Around forty percent of cancers are preventable. Lifestyle

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<v Speaker 1>changes and screenings can make a difference. Call five one

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<v Speaker 1>three five eighty five u.

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<v Speaker 2>CE see see sath Bend seventy one continues to run

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<v Speaker 2>an extra fifteen minutes from above to seventy five to

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<v Speaker 2>Red Bank. They clear the Wreckeddena northbound four seventy one's

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<v Speaker 2>clearing out from Grand southbound seventy five, break lights through

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<v Speaker 2>Lachland and northbound seventy five, and an extra ten between

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<v Speaker 2>Erlonger and downtown. It's International Tongue Twister Contest day. So

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<v Speaker 2>our next guest as you might imagine it's busy selling

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<v Speaker 2>seashells by the seashore, but perhaps with a nudge to budge,

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<v Speaker 2>with flavoring fudge and holding no brudge through deep sludge.

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<v Speaker 2>Here comes the judge Chuck Ingram on fifty five krs

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<v Speaker 2>the talk station.

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<v Speaker 1>A thirty fifty five krcy Toxics. I think that's one

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<v Speaker 1>of his best ones, your honor. Yes, you worked on

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<v Speaker 1>that poet and.

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<v Speaker 3>He doesn't even know it.

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<v Speaker 1>It makes me wonder if if he went to chat

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<v Speaker 1>GPT to help him write that one, because I know

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<v Speaker 1>he didn't have a lot of time on his hands.

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<v Speaker 1>But anyway, Judge Eddenapolaitano, everyone's here in the fifty five

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<v Speaker 1>krs morning showing God love him for doing it. And

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<v Speaker 1>you know, speaking about favorites, you this column you wrote,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, of all the columns you've written, this is

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<v Speaker 1>like red meat for Brian Thomas. I just I thought

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<v Speaker 1>this was amazing. You just spell it out, you give

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<v Speaker 1>the history behind it. But I know the people aren't

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<v Speaker 1>going like, but what what is it? What what's the

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<v Speaker 1>you're talking about? We'll get to that. But loved, loved,

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<v Speaker 1>loved this. I think you did a great job. You

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<v Speaker 1>always do a great job, but you knocked it out

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<v Speaker 1>of the park. About the administrative state, this monstrosity that

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<v Speaker 1>exists behind the scenes, over which no one seems to

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<v Speaker 1>have any control, including our elected officials. Nothing irks me

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<v Speaker 1>more than you get a sub committee of representatives duly

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<v Speaker 1>elected by the American people. They asked one of these

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<v Speaker 1>administrative agencies for records, and they metaphorically raised their middle

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<v Speaker 1>finger in response, like, now we're not going to give

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<v Speaker 1>it to you. What the hell is going on?

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<v Speaker 3>This is the fourth branch of government, unrecognized by the Constitution,

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<v Speaker 3>established originally by that former constitutional law professor and former

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<v Speaker 3>president of Princeton University and former Governor of New Jersey,

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<v Speaker 3>Woodrow Wilson, who fervently believed that America would be a happier, healthier, safer,

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<v Speaker 3>and more prosperous place if we were governed by experts,

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<v Speaker 3>not by the people we elect, but by experts who

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<v Speaker 3>would be high by the people we elect, And so

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<v Speaker 3>he created the administrative state. It's neither fish nor foul.

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<v Speaker 3>You can't tell what branch of the government it's in.

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<v Speaker 3>For example, food and drug administration rights its own rules,

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<v Speaker 3>prosecutes sellers of products who don't comply with those rules

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<v Speaker 3>in its own courts before its own judges, interprets its

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<v Speaker 3>own rules and assesses punishment against them. These are not

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<v Speaker 3>federal judges that are nominated by the President confirmed by

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<v Speaker 3>the Senate. These are employees of the Food and Drug

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<v Speaker 3>Administration who put a black robot and call themselves judges.

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<v Speaker 3>So this entity that rights rules, interprets rules, enforces rules,

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<v Speaker 3>punishes violations of the rules, as I said, is alien

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<v Speaker 3>to the Constitution. And Donald Trump, God bless him, has

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<v Speaker 3>had enough of it. There are many, many of these

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<v Speaker 3>administrative agencies. The CDC, the Centers for Disease Control that

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<v Speaker 3>told all of us we have to see six feet

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<v Speaker 3>apart during COVID. We later learned that there was not

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<v Speaker 3>a shred of scientific evidence to justify any benefits from that. Nevertheless,

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<v Speaker 3>that is an administrative agency and nobody seems to be

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<v Speaker 3>able to control them. Yes, the head of these agencies

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<v Speaker 3>is nominated by the President and confirmed by the Senate,

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<v Speaker 3>but the rules are written, enforced, and interpreted by bureaucrats

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<v Speaker 3>who are always there. Trump, by cutting back the budgets

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<v Speaker 3>on these entities, is trying to bring them in line

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<v Speaker 3>or eradicate them. I suggest in my piece which I

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<v Speaker 3>expose all this and expose the history of it. It's

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<v Speaker 3>not just me exposing that a lot of people have

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<v Speaker 3>of late. It would be far better if Trump did

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<v Speaker 3>this by legislation than by FIAT. Then the legal challenges

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<v Speaker 3>go away. You know, as bad as these administrative agencies are,

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<v Speaker 3>they were enacted by and are funded by Congress, so

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<v Speaker 3>only Congress can en The President doesn't want to wait

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<v Speaker 3>for Congress. He wants to more or less starve them

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<v Speaker 3>to death.

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<v Speaker 1>And either it was an op ed piece, or at

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<v Speaker 1>least I think it was an op ed piece. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>guy was a Wall Street journal and they talked about,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, Trump inviting and welcoming litigation on these topics.

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<v Speaker 1>He knows, for example, that some of the things he's

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<v Speaker 1>doing will be challenged in court, and he knows he's

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<v Speaker 1>even on shaky legal ground on some of them, but

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<v Speaker 1>he wants to get in front of the court because hell,

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<v Speaker 1>they might confirm or approve that what he's doing is act,

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<v Speaker 1>is correct and right. I mean, we got the Chevron

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<v Speaker 1>case out of the Supreme Court, which you bring up

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<v Speaker 1>in the in the opinion piece. The deference that they

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<v Speaker 1>courts were required to give to the administrative state when

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<v Speaker 1>it comes to interpreting interpreting these rules and regulations, that's

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<v Speaker 1>no longer the case.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean correct.

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<v Speaker 1>The Congress now has this.

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<v Speaker 3>This court got rid of the Chevron case. The Chevron

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<v Speaker 3>case gave the administrative a no seas a leg up,

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<v Speaker 3>prohibited judges from second guests in them, and said whatever

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<v Speaker 3>the experts say is so. So when the EPA declares

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<v Speaker 3>a mud puddle to be a navigable waterway, as absurd

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<v Speaker 3>as that is, the Court is not in a position

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<v Speaker 3>to deny, doubt or negate that. After we got rid

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<v Speaker 3>of the Chevron doctrine. With this court, when the EPA

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<v Speaker 3>is challenged, the challenger and the government are an equal

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<v Speaker 3>standing in court. There is no deference to the government.

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<v Speaker 3>On the contrary, the government must prove its case in

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<v Speaker 3>terms of the existence of these administrative agencies and whether

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<v Speaker 3>they are unconstitutional to the core. There are two members

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<v Speaker 3>of the Court who, in other opinions have opined, as

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<v Speaker 3>I have, that Wilson was wrong, the Congress violated the Constitution,

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<v Speaker 3>and they all should go. That's a Justice Clarence Thomas

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<v Speaker 3>and Justice Neil gorris I don't know that there's a

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<v Speaker 3>majority for that, but will We'll see the article on

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<v Speaker 3>the Wall Street Journal. The uped on the Wall Street

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<v Speaker 3>Journal to which you refer talks about the president's ability

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<v Speaker 3>to fire the head of these administrative agencies. He is

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<v Speaker 3>teeing that up to go before the Supreme Court. Last week.

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<v Speaker 3>The Supreme Court basically said we're not going to get involved.

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<v Speaker 3>They didn't say can and they didn't say can't. They

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<v Speaker 3>just said we're not going to get involved, and no

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<v Speaker 3>one filed a dissent from that. We're not going to

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<v Speaker 3>get involved. Sent it back to a federal district court

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<v Speaker 3>trial court to address the issue. The President wants to

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<v Speaker 3>fire the head of the Office of Special Counsel. This

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<v Speaker 3>is not what Bob Muller did. It's the same name,

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<v Speaker 3>but it's a different entity. It basically protects whistleblowers in

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<v Speaker 3>the executive branch, and Joe Biden appointed this person to

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<v Speaker 3>a five year term. The legislation says he can only

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<v Speaker 3>be fired for cause that his personal misbehavior. Trump attempted

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<v Speaker 3>to fire him anyway in the courts put a stop

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<v Speaker 3>to it. In the Supreme Court declined to get involved.

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<v Speaker 3>This is symptomatic of this whole big picture, Brian, Are

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<v Speaker 3>these administrative agencies constitutional in the first place? Justice? As

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<v Speaker 3>Thomas and Gorsach say no, three more justices say it.

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<v Speaker 3>Two thirds of the federal government goes away overnight.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh, you give me something to dream about at night

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<v Speaker 1>on that one.

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<v Speaker 3>You're when you're not writing poetry for Ingram. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Now going back to the heads of these administrative agencies. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>as you point out, there is a head of the

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<v Speaker 1>administrative agencies. They do get you know, approval, and they

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<v Speaker 1>go through the process. Do they have the ability to

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<v Speaker 1>stop any given regulation that comes out? Like the navigable water,

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<v Speaker 1>a mud puddle is navigle water. We know that one

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<v Speaker 1>got dealt with by I think West Virginia versus EPA.

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<v Speaker 1>But in the fundamental LESSI is under the post Chevron era,

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<v Speaker 1>someone can challenge It's the separate line of question I

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<v Speaker 1>have for you. But if Trump has someone of the

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<v Speaker 1>same mindset as you and I that these agencies have

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<v Speaker 1>way too much power, can they prevent any given regulation

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<v Speaker 1>from coming out by virtue of being head of that

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<v Speaker 1>particular administration administra agency?

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<v Speaker 3>Yes, if Donald Trump were to a point, well he

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<v Speaker 3>has a point at least Elden as the head of

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<v Speaker 3>the EPA. Zelden can control what regulations the EPA comes

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<v Speaker 3>out with. Now, if regulations come out without the approval

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<v Speaker 3>of the head of the agency, I don't know what

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<v Speaker 3>would happen under those circumstances. But theoretically, theoretically, the head

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<v Speaker 3>of an administrative agency can control what the administrative agency does.

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<v Speaker 3>But even under presidents as conservative as Ronald Reagan and

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<v Speaker 3>traditional as the two Bushes, I mean, these administrative agencies

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<v Speaker 3>just continued to churn and churn and churn. One of

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<v Speaker 3>the ones in Trump's crosshairs is everybody's favorite, the IRS.

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<v Speaker 3>They just they're well north of seventy thousand pages of

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<v Speaker 3>interpretations of their own regulations. This stuff's not written by Congress.

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<v Speaker 3>This is written by bureaucrats, no matter who runs the IRS.

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<v Speaker 3>Justice Scalia, in a famous case called Marson against Olson,

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<v Speaker 3>which had to do with the establishment of the Special Council,

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<v Speaker 3>the one that Bob Muller ran, argued in a dissent

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<v Speaker 3>that Congress cannot delegate away its power in this case

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<v Speaker 3>of appointment of a special Council. That can't delegate away

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<v Speaker 3>its regulatory power. Why because the Constitution says all quote,

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<v Speaker 3>all legislative power herein delegated shall vest in a Congress

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<v Speaker 3>of the United States, which shall consist of two houses,

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<v Speaker 3>et cetera, et cetera. They can't give that power away.

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<v Speaker 3>So if Congress wanted to say a mud puddle is

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<v Speaker 3>a navigable water, would result, I would think in a

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<v Speaker 3>lot of them getting losing their reelection hits. But if

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<v Speaker 3>Congress wanted to say that, that is at least as

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<v Speaker 3>absurd as it is constitutional. But when some group of bureaucrats, unknown, unidentified,

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<v Speaker 3>unanswerable to the public, says it, and we're required to

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<v Speaker 3>comply with it, that's the constitutional problem.

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<v Speaker 1>Now, the other component of the question I wanted to ask,

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<v Speaker 1>in the post Chevron world that we live in now,

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<v Speaker 1>where there's no longer that immediate deference, who has standing

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<v Speaker 1>to bring a challenge?

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<v Speaker 3>You would have to be you would have to be harmed.

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<v Speaker 3>In the West Virginia case, that's the mud puddle. The

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<v Speaker 3>farmer whose mud puddle they attempted to regularly certainly had standing.

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<v Speaker 3>He wanted to build a structure within twenty yards of

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<v Speaker 3>the mud puddle, and they said, no, you've got to

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<v Speaker 3>be back forty yards. Pretty simple facts to understand, but

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<v Speaker 3>it resulted in a monumental constitutional clash in the Supreme

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<v Speaker 3>Court sided with the farmer, thank god. But it would

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<v Speaker 3>take someone whose oxes Gord, someone who was actually personally

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<v Speaker 3>uniquely harmed by this standing is not always easy to

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<v Speaker 3>find him in some of these federal judges who are

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<v Speaker 3>hearing challenges to Trump's refusal to spend money. This is

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<v Speaker 3>another issue. Can the president and pound funds and not

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<v Speaker 3>spend what Congress has totally spend. The short answer is no.

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<v Speaker 3>But when these labor unions file litigation, the courts are saying,

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<v Speaker 3>you're not harmed. Still have the labor union. There's no harm,

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<v Speaker 3>there's no standing. I'm not going to hear the case.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm not saying what the president is doing is constitutional.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm just saying you don't have standing. It's not always

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<v Speaker 3>easy to get standing. Madison did that intentionally because they

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<v Speaker 3>didn't want the federal courts to exist as monitors of

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<v Speaker 3>the other two branches unless someone was uniquely harmed by

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<v Speaker 3>what either of the other two branches did.

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<v Speaker 1>Judge Endita Paulatana wonderful insight, wonderful and thoughtful historic breakdown

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<v Speaker 1>of how we got from Madison to here and what

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<v Speaker 1>a wild he's rolling over in his grave and he

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<v Speaker 1>has been for decades now.

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<v Speaker 3>I imagine, Yes, yes.

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<v Speaker 1>Judge Enda Paulatana, God bless you, sir, judging freedom of

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<v Speaker 1>course your podcasts and your interviews, and I recommend my

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<v Speaker 1>listeners search for that online. They're all using their search engine.

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<v Speaker 1>Who are we talking to today, your honor Congressman Thomas.

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<v Speaker 3>I was waiting for you to ask me. You know,

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<v Speaker 3>I also have Colonel McGregor and my other regulars. But

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<v Speaker 3>at three this afternoon live Congressman Thomas Massy, and then

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<v Speaker 3>of course it's posted for anybody to see. When I

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<v Speaker 3>announced this yesterday, I can't tell you the laudatory emails

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<v Speaker 3>that I received because Congressman Massy.

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<v Speaker 1>Is coming on and the only no vote on that

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<v Speaker 1>resolution they passed out of the House yesterday, and he

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<v Speaker 1>has good reason to vote no.

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<v Speaker 3>The title of the title of my segment with Congressman

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<v Speaker 3>Massy is do we still have a Constitution? Oh?

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<v Speaker 1>That's going to be a wonderful conversation, as they always are.

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<v Speaker 1>Judge Napolitan a best of health next Wednesday, already looking

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<v Speaker 1>forward to it. As always, I'll enjoy hearing your conversation

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<v Speaker 1>with Congressman Massy today.

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<v Speaker 3>Three Thank you, Thank you, Brian, all the best to.

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<v Speaker 1>You and to you, sir. Eight forty three I fifty

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<v Speaker 1>five krsee

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<v Speaker 3>The talk station fifty five KARC