1 00:00:17,920 --> 00:00:21,079 Speaker 1: And we are back with another edition of the Federalist 2 00:00:21,120 --> 00:00:24,480 Radio Hour. I'm Matt Kittle, senior Elections correspondent at the 3 00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:28,960 Federalist and your experienced Shirpa on today's quest for Knowledge. 4 00:00:29,359 --> 00:00:32,280 As always, you can email the show at radio at 5 00:00:32,280 --> 00:00:36,159 the Federalist dot com, follow us on exit FDR LST. 6 00:00:36,719 --> 00:00:39,320 Make sure to subscribe wherever you download your podcast, and 7 00:00:39,479 --> 00:00:42,520 of course to the premium version of our website as well. 8 00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:46,439 Our guest today is Katie Faust, founder and president of 9 00:00:46,560 --> 00:00:50,799 Them Before Us and spokeswoman for the newly launched Greater 10 00:00:50,960 --> 00:00:55,719 Than campaign, advocating for the US Supreme Court to overturn 11 00:00:55,840 --> 00:01:00,240 Overrafell and prioritize children's rights. And that really is is 12 00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:04,400 what this is all about, Katie, that is your background 13 00:01:04,400 --> 00:01:08,640 putting children's rights first. Thank you so much for joining 14 00:01:08,719 --> 00:01:10,560 us in this edition of the Federalist Radio Hour. 15 00:01:10,959 --> 00:01:13,799 Speaker 2: It's really good to be with you. And I was 16 00:01:13,959 --> 00:01:18,319 honored that the Federalist ran a piece of that I 17 00:01:18,359 --> 00:01:21,319 wrote last week called Obergafel has harmed it children for 18 00:01:21,400 --> 00:01:25,400 far too long, and I just explained, you know, what 19 00:01:25,439 --> 00:01:28,799 was the impact Obergefel really had on kids? Because I 20 00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:30,680 think a lot of people look at that and say, oh, 21 00:01:30,879 --> 00:01:33,799 what was the result of Abergafel Gay people get married now? 22 00:01:34,079 --> 00:01:37,079 But has actually gone far beyond that. There actually have 23 00:01:37,200 --> 00:01:40,760 been some very significant harms, especially for children, that resulted 24 00:01:40,760 --> 00:01:44,040 from that decision, and we're going to say no more. 25 00:01:45,319 --> 00:01:50,920 Speaker 1: Yeah. Indeed, I don't think that people fully understand where 26 00:01:50,959 --> 00:01:54,239 things are today compared to where they were in twenty 27 00:01:54,359 --> 00:01:58,760 fifteen when the Supreme Court, thanks to Anthony Kennedy, in 28 00:01:58,879 --> 00:02:03,200 large part he wrote the the opinion on all of this, 29 00:02:03,640 --> 00:02:06,480 how much things have changed. In fact, you're seeing some 30 00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:11,599 polling here that shows a lot of people have misgivings 31 00:02:11,680 --> 00:02:16,439 about maybe where they stood in twenty fourteen, twenty fifteen 32 00:02:16,479 --> 00:02:19,439 as to where they stand today, you know, more than 33 00:02:19,479 --> 00:02:23,120 ten years later. Are you seeing the momentum build on 34 00:02:23,199 --> 00:02:23,680 that front? 35 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:27,680 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, oh yeah. So I don't know what the 36 00:02:27,759 --> 00:02:31,599 Republican support was for gay marriage when they legalized it 37 00:02:31,639 --> 00:02:35,759 in twenty fifteen, but it peaked in twenty twenty two, 38 00:02:35,879 --> 00:02:40,039 twenty three when it was about fifty one percent, and 39 00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:43,599 since then it has created it has dropped sixteen percent. 40 00:02:44,039 --> 00:02:48,000 So now just among Republicans, we've lost fifteen percent support 41 00:02:48,199 --> 00:02:50,560 for gay marriage over the last two years, and I 42 00:02:50,639 --> 00:02:53,319 think a lot of people would say, well, it's because 43 00:02:53,360 --> 00:02:56,680 the T went too far right, the T in LGBT, 44 00:02:56,800 --> 00:03:01,680 the transgender movement poisoned everything. And now people are looking 45 00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:05,159 upstream and saying this didn't come from nowhere, it came 46 00:03:05,159 --> 00:03:08,039 from the LGB. And so I think we've seen a 47 00:03:08,039 --> 00:03:10,879 lot of LGB trying to separate themselves from the TEA 48 00:03:10,919 --> 00:03:14,400 because they recognize that it is so toxic for their movement. 49 00:03:14,879 --> 00:03:17,319 But I think there's something else here too, and that 50 00:03:17,560 --> 00:03:20,800 is that we were told, I mean, gay marriage was 51 00:03:20,960 --> 00:03:23,879 passed on the line that this has nothing to do 52 00:03:23,960 --> 00:03:27,080 with kids. I mean infertile couples getting married and they 53 00:03:27,080 --> 00:03:30,120 don't have kids, And this is really just about adult dignity. 54 00:03:30,159 --> 00:03:31,840 We just want to visit one another in the hospital, 55 00:03:31,960 --> 00:03:34,360 We just want insurance benefits. I mean, this is just 56 00:03:34,360 --> 00:03:37,000 about making sure that we're not second class citizens. This 57 00:03:37,120 --> 00:03:40,240 is the next step in the evolution of marriage. You know, 58 00:03:40,439 --> 00:03:43,000 first we struck down barriers for interracial marriage. Now we're 59 00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:45,199 striking down barriers for gay marriage. I mean, it was 60 00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:49,000 all adult centric, it was all adult focused. But what 61 00:03:49,039 --> 00:03:52,319 we've seen over the last several years, especially the last 62 00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:54,960 I would say two or three or five. Is so 63 00:03:55,280 --> 00:04:00,360 many pictures of motherless babies in hospitals, on the harryte tests, 64 00:04:00,360 --> 00:04:02,639 of men who may or may not be related, some 65 00:04:02,719 --> 00:04:06,520 of which we already know were convicted sex offenders who 66 00:04:06,520 --> 00:04:09,599 are acquiring children. And a lot of this is happening 67 00:04:09,759 --> 00:04:12,560 under the banner of and certainly with the legal endorsement 68 00:04:12,719 --> 00:04:17,000 of the redefinition of parenthood that was part and parcel 69 00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:18,879 of the redefinition of marriage. 70 00:04:19,160 --> 00:04:22,079 Speaker 1: Some of them are transportation secretaries for the record in 71 00:04:22,319 --> 00:04:30,720 previous administrations. But all of that said, what is interesting 72 00:04:30,759 --> 00:04:34,720 to me is always the politics behind all of this stuff. 73 00:04:34,759 --> 00:04:38,360 Do you think the change over the last few years 74 00:04:38,360 --> 00:04:44,000 in this country in particular from conservatives is they're seeing 75 00:04:44,639 --> 00:04:49,680 the naked power abuse that's going on here. That is 76 00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:55,800 to say, they have witnessed the use of this Supreme 77 00:04:55,879 --> 00:05:00,920 Court ruling for the left to expand and expand into 78 00:05:00,920 --> 00:05:03,839 places they never dreamed it would expand into. 79 00:05:04,839 --> 00:05:07,439 Speaker 2: I think that some of it is they are actually 80 00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:11,040 seeing the very real impacts of defining the most child 81 00:05:11,199 --> 00:05:14,000 centric institution in the world has ever known around something 82 00:05:14,079 --> 00:05:18,879 that has no children involved, and so they are seeing 83 00:05:18,920 --> 00:05:21,199 the effects of what every other country throughout the world 84 00:05:21,240 --> 00:05:24,160 has seen. There has been thirty eight countries across the 85 00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:28,519 globe that have legalized gay marriage. Zero of those countries 86 00:05:28,959 --> 00:05:32,560 have simultaneously reinforced the importance of children's right to their 87 00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:35,839 mother and father. Most of them have significantly weakened. Some 88 00:05:35,879 --> 00:05:39,439 have totally obliterated this expectation that children come from a 89 00:05:39,480 --> 00:05:42,160 man and woman and belong to that man and that woman. 90 00:05:42,639 --> 00:05:45,519 So this was totally predictable, and now we've had ten 91 00:05:45,600 --> 00:05:48,720 years to really take a look at the impact that 92 00:05:48,759 --> 00:05:52,079 has had on children. I think the other thing, too, 93 00:05:52,319 --> 00:05:56,480 is the vibe shift is real, and what shifted it 94 00:05:56,519 --> 00:06:01,399 was a Your emotional manipulation tactics don't work on me anymore. 95 00:06:01,800 --> 00:06:04,480 You have called me so many names. You have called 96 00:06:04,480 --> 00:06:06,720 me racist, you have called me a white supremacist, you 97 00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:09,519 have called me a homophobe, you've called me a transphobe. Like, 98 00:06:09,879 --> 00:06:13,040 it just doesn't work anymore. And I do think that 99 00:06:13,040 --> 00:06:16,639 that was the primary vehicle that gay advocates used to 100 00:06:16,759 --> 00:06:20,959 advance their arguments. They didn't have natural law, they didn't 101 00:06:20,959 --> 00:06:25,480 have social science, they didn't have any constitutional support, they 102 00:06:25,480 --> 00:06:29,800 didn't have common law going back a couple of centuries 103 00:06:29,879 --> 00:06:34,720 in this country. All they had was emotional backstory and 104 00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:37,959 the insistence that you hate gay people if you don't want, 105 00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:40,480 if you do not want to redefine the most child 106 00:06:40,480 --> 00:06:43,000 friendly institution in the world has ever known. And I 107 00:06:43,040 --> 00:06:46,759 think that emotional manipulative tactic it just doesn't work on 108 00:06:46,800 --> 00:06:51,480 as many Americans anymore because we were you know, we 109 00:06:51,519 --> 00:06:54,040 have all just gotten used to being called ugly names 110 00:06:54,439 --> 00:06:56,759 because even when we went along with what they wanted, 111 00:06:56,839 --> 00:06:59,720 they still demanded more. So, I think that the vibe 112 00:06:59,759 --> 00:07:02,439 shit has come in the form of us saying, you 113 00:07:02,480 --> 00:07:04,399 know what, we don't like this. We've never liked it, 114 00:07:04,439 --> 00:07:06,439 and we're not going to pretend like we like it anymore. 115 00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:08,360 You can say whatever you want about me, but the 116 00:07:08,399 --> 00:07:09,160 answer is no. 117 00:07:10,519 --> 00:07:15,399 Speaker 1: It's such a selfish society. It has been for a 118 00:07:15,439 --> 00:07:20,199 while now. I look at what's happening in the culture 119 00:07:20,199 --> 00:07:25,360 in society and I think to myself, it's only getting worse. Although, 120 00:07:25,399 --> 00:07:27,800 as we just talked about, there are some signs that 121 00:07:28,839 --> 00:07:34,759 we truly are prioritizing children. We truly are prioritizing the 122 00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:39,279 family and the traditional family, in fact greater than the 123 00:07:39,360 --> 00:07:45,079 campaign says this. In today's society, children are often treated 124 00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:50,839 as secondary spoken for negotiated over or reshaped to serve 125 00:07:51,000 --> 00:07:57,360 adult priorities greater than works from a different premise. Children's 126 00:07:57,439 --> 00:08:03,439 rights should not be overridden by a adult feelings or desires. 127 00:08:04,600 --> 00:08:08,560 That's a lot of work on the campaign's front. I 128 00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:10,519 know you're up to the challenge, and you've got some 129 00:08:10,600 --> 00:08:13,199 great people who've been working at this for a long time. 130 00:08:13,240 --> 00:08:19,439 But how do you go back decades of indoctrination your feelings, 131 00:08:19,519 --> 00:08:22,399 that's what That's what matters. You know, you're all of 132 00:08:22,439 --> 00:08:27,199 these leftist, woke concepts of your truth as opposed to 133 00:08:27,519 --> 00:08:30,360 the truth. That's very difficult to combat, isn't it. 134 00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:33,519 Speaker 2: Yes, I will tell you though. The reason why we're 135 00:08:33,519 --> 00:08:34,799 going to win. We're going to win for a lot 136 00:08:34,799 --> 00:08:38,039 of reasons. But one of the reasons is when you 137 00:08:38,639 --> 00:08:41,159 we often say it, then before us, the victim determines 138 00:08:41,200 --> 00:08:45,399 the policy. So whoever frames themselves as the victim, the 139 00:08:45,399 --> 00:08:49,039 policy is going to wrap around them. So leading up 140 00:08:49,039 --> 00:08:53,399 to twenty fifteen, gay people presented themselves as the victims. Right, 141 00:08:53,399 --> 00:08:56,480 they are being treated as second class citizens. You're saying, 142 00:08:56,480 --> 00:08:59,039 we don't have dignity. Look at all the ways that 143 00:08:59,080 --> 00:09:01,200 I have suffered, and the truth is a lot of 144 00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:04,440 gay people have suffered. I think a lot of I 145 00:09:04,519 --> 00:09:07,440 know plenty. Some of them have honored me by sharing 146 00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:10,240 their story with me. Many of them have personally suffered 147 00:09:10,600 --> 00:09:12,799 in terms of their pure relationships, in terms of their 148 00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:16,919 family relationships, in terms of being victimized by other adults, 149 00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:21,000 and they deserve our empathy and compassion. But when we 150 00:09:21,039 --> 00:09:23,919 get marriage policy wrong, they're not the victims. Children are 151 00:09:23,960 --> 00:09:26,559 the victims. And that's the way we're going to change, 152 00:09:26,559 --> 00:09:28,919 not just law, but we're going to change public opinion. 153 00:09:29,360 --> 00:09:32,200 We are going to reframe the conversation away from adults 154 00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:35,360 that think they're victims if they don't get what they want, 155 00:09:36,120 --> 00:09:41,879 over to children who genuinely are victims when we reorganize 156 00:09:41,919 --> 00:09:45,759 the constellation of marriage and family law around adult validation 157 00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:50,679 rather than their fundamental rights. So it is an emotional battle, 158 00:09:51,200 --> 00:09:54,080 and we are working against people that will say, oh, 159 00:09:54,080 --> 00:09:57,600 but you marginalize me, and you're victimizing me. So what 160 00:09:57,600 --> 00:09:59,480 we're going to do is we're actually going to match 161 00:09:59,480 --> 00:10:01,759 story with story, Like they're going to say, what, I 162 00:10:01,799 --> 00:10:03,440 have this hard life, I have this hard story, and 163 00:10:03,440 --> 00:10:04,759 we're going to say, oh, oh, you want to talk 164 00:10:04,759 --> 00:10:07,840 hard stories. Great, let's look at this child who was 165 00:10:08,080 --> 00:10:11,559 trafficked because of these new parenting laws, these laws that 166 00:10:11,600 --> 00:10:13,080 said they don't have a claim to their own mother 167 00:10:13,159 --> 00:10:15,879 and father. They're items to be awarded to whatever adult 168 00:10:15,879 --> 00:10:19,159 had the money or means to acquire them. Because we 169 00:10:19,279 --> 00:10:24,159 have redefined parenthood laws away from biology and adoption, which 170 00:10:24,200 --> 00:10:27,639 you guys said was discriminatory, and towards de facto parenting 171 00:10:27,720 --> 00:10:30,360 or intent based parenting, which is now needed so you 172 00:10:30,360 --> 00:10:34,360 can have this constitutional benefit to children. We're going to 173 00:10:34,480 --> 00:10:38,159 highlight the children who experienced mother hunger or father hunger 174 00:10:38,279 --> 00:10:40,399 because they were raised in a home with two mothers 175 00:10:40,440 --> 00:10:43,159 or two dads and deprived of the maternal or paternal 176 00:10:43,200 --> 00:10:47,559 love that children crave but also that maximizes their development. 177 00:10:47,720 --> 00:10:50,200 We are going to share the stories. They're already on 178 00:10:50,279 --> 00:10:52,919 the website, the Greater Than campaign dot com website. What 179 00:10:53,080 --> 00:10:56,360 kind of identity struggles do kids deal with when they've 180 00:10:56,360 --> 00:11:00,440 lost their mother or father, often through a commercial arrange, 181 00:11:00,600 --> 00:11:02,519 and a lot of those kids are being raised by 182 00:11:02,559 --> 00:11:05,600 gay couples. We're going to share with you the increased 183 00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:10,080 household risk of children living with unrelated adults, the kind 184 00:11:10,159 --> 00:11:12,840 of neglect they face may be the kind of targeted 185 00:11:12,879 --> 00:11:15,639 abuse that they face, especially when they're in the home 186 00:11:15,679 --> 00:11:19,519 of an unrelated man. Guess what is present in the 187 00:11:19,559 --> 00:11:21,840 home of every child raised by a same sex parent, 188 00:11:22,399 --> 00:11:25,080 unrelated adults. Some of them may have gone through the 189 00:11:25,120 --> 00:11:28,080 process of adopting, a lot of them haven't. And so 190 00:11:28,080 --> 00:11:31,639 we're actually placing children in riskier households in the name 191 00:11:31,759 --> 00:11:35,720 of adult equality. So the whole thing is going to change. 192 00:11:36,120 --> 00:11:38,559 We're going to change not just the question before the courts, 193 00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:42,879 but the question before the culture, and it is around. Actually, 194 00:11:42,879 --> 00:11:45,519 we're going to reframe this around the true victims, the 195 00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:48,240 children who lose their mother or father, so adults can 196 00:11:48,279 --> 00:11:50,600 have the so called equality that they're seeking. 197 00:11:57,600 --> 00:12:02,200 Speaker 3: How many people's health insurances call more than their mortgage? 198 00:12:02,320 --> 00:12:05,120 The watch Dot on Wall Street podcast with Chris Markowski 199 00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:08,000 Every day Chris helps unpack the connection in between politics 200 00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:10,200 and the economy and how it affects your wallet. Some 201 00:12:10,240 --> 00:12:13,240 Americans are paying more for the health insurance than their mortgage. 202 00:12:13,279 --> 00:12:15,799 And what happened? What if we all just stopped paying 203 00:12:15,799 --> 00:12:18,879 for health insurance? Will that force doctors to lower costs? 204 00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:21,039 Whether it's happening in DC or down on Wall Street, 205 00:12:21,080 --> 00:12:23,720 it's affecting you financially be informed. Check out the Watchdot 206 00:12:23,759 --> 00:12:26,600 on Wall Street podcast with Chris Markowski on Apple, Spotify, 207 00:12:26,679 --> 00:12:28,519 or wherever you get your podcast. 208 00:12:37,879 --> 00:12:43,320 Speaker 1: Much has changed since Obergefell versus Hodges in twenty fifteen. 209 00:12:43,879 --> 00:12:47,000 We've been talking all about that, But what are some 210 00:12:47,080 --> 00:12:51,679 of the numbers that we have seen? And with all 211 00:12:51,759 --> 00:12:55,840 of that, what do you think? This is the question 212 00:12:55,919 --> 00:12:58,559 for the justices, but they're not going to answer this 213 00:12:58,600 --> 00:13:01,159 port So I'm asking you, what do you think some 214 00:13:01,279 --> 00:13:09,000 of the justices who sided with this think fifteen sixteen 215 00:13:09,080 --> 00:13:12,159 years excuse me, ten or eleven years later after this 216 00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:14,360 decision and the impact of that decision. 217 00:13:14,919 --> 00:13:16,919 Speaker 2: Well, I think that if we come to the justices 218 00:13:16,960 --> 00:13:19,200 and say should you overturn gay marriage? A lot of 219 00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:20,960 them are going to say no. A couple of them 220 00:13:21,039 --> 00:13:22,799 might say yeah, it was a trash decision that was 221 00:13:22,840 --> 00:13:24,840 built on trash logic and has nothing to do with 222 00:13:24,879 --> 00:13:27,039 the Constitution. But a lot of them may say no 223 00:13:27,480 --> 00:13:30,159 because they're going to say, well, you know, we've got 224 00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:31,720 ten years of precedents, but. 225 00:13:31,639 --> 00:13:34,679 Speaker 1: We're not a shuttled law, rightie. That's what they always say. 226 00:13:34,679 --> 00:13:36,039 It's settled law, and. 227 00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:37,440 Speaker 2: We're not going to come to them and saying should 228 00:13:37,480 --> 00:13:40,240 you overturn gay marriage? We're going to bring to them 229 00:13:40,559 --> 00:13:44,720 cases or challenges that are not asking what do you 230 00:13:44,759 --> 00:13:47,480 think of gay marriage? We're going to bring them cases 231 00:13:47,519 --> 00:13:51,519 that say, do a child's own mother and father benefit 232 00:13:51,559 --> 00:13:54,679 them in ways that a state assigned adult does not. 233 00:13:56,000 --> 00:13:59,320 We're going to change the entire question that they're being asked. 234 00:14:00,240 --> 00:14:03,759 And when you answer the question, actually, a child's own 235 00:14:03,919 --> 00:14:07,440 mother and father matter to them as it relates to 236 00:14:07,519 --> 00:14:13,080 their safety, their investment, their development, their identity, as it 237 00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:17,120 relates to their long term outcomes, and as it correlates 238 00:14:17,159 --> 00:14:22,679 with centuries of common law that places and privileges the 239 00:14:22,759 --> 00:14:27,320 natural parent child relationship above other relationships. Now you've got 240 00:14:27,320 --> 00:14:31,279 a totally different equation before the court. It's not about 241 00:14:31,519 --> 00:14:34,600 how do these adults identify or what is the strength 242 00:14:34,600 --> 00:14:37,759 of their emotional relationship. The question before the court is 243 00:14:38,639 --> 00:14:40,879 do children need their own mother and father? And should 244 00:14:40,879 --> 00:14:43,720 that be elevated and prioritized for the sake of kids? 245 00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:47,320 And if they answer yes, which social science is on 246 00:14:47,360 --> 00:14:49,360 our side and so is common law and so is 247 00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:53,200 natural law, then you're creating an environment where obergerfil is 248 00:14:53,240 --> 00:14:55,159 not going to be able to continue to exist. 249 00:14:55,960 --> 00:14:57,559 Speaker 1: That's a good point, and I want to get to 250 00:14:57,559 --> 00:15:01,080 the science point of things. We were told in twenty twenty, 251 00:15:01,159 --> 00:15:04,519 over and over again by the experts to follow the science, 252 00:15:04,759 --> 00:15:07,559 more to the topic when it came to COVID, more 253 00:15:07,559 --> 00:15:09,679 to the topic at hand right now. We were told 254 00:15:09,759 --> 00:15:13,960 by the experts so called for years that, you know, 255 00:15:15,639 --> 00:15:21,000 changing the sex of a fifteen year old kid, you know, 256 00:15:21,320 --> 00:15:27,639 cutting off their their genitals, and you know, and inducing 257 00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:32,720 them with all kinds of horrible chemicals was a good thing, 258 00:15:33,399 --> 00:15:39,120 a benefit. So I'm a little concerned about people actually 259 00:15:39,639 --> 00:15:42,480 truly following the science. Does that give you any pause 260 00:15:42,519 --> 00:15:44,519 based on where we've been over the last several years 261 00:15:44,519 --> 00:15:45,679 in this country on that front. 262 00:15:46,279 --> 00:15:50,240 Speaker 2: The science was hijacked in this conversation as well. If 263 00:15:50,279 --> 00:15:52,919 any of you guys have ever tried to say kids 264 00:15:52,960 --> 00:15:55,000 need a mom and dad, and I'm a little concerned 265 00:15:55,039 --> 00:15:57,279 about two men or two women raising a child and 266 00:15:57,399 --> 00:16:00,120 I just think that might be bad for them, immediately 267 00:16:00,639 --> 00:16:02,559 you are going to be hit with a link that 268 00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:08,679 says Cornell University has surveyed seventy nine studies of children 269 00:16:08,759 --> 00:16:11,120 raised by same sex households, and seventy five of them 270 00:16:11,159 --> 00:16:14,440 say that those kids fare no different or even better 271 00:16:14,759 --> 00:16:18,720 than kids raised by their heterosexual parents. And so they 272 00:16:19,480 --> 00:16:21,320 did a lot of work leading up to a Bergafel 273 00:16:21,440 --> 00:16:24,840 to create a lot of quote unquote studies that showed 274 00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:27,720 that number one, you know, they argued into Bergaphil, kids 275 00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:29,600 have nothing to do with marriage, but also kids love 276 00:16:29,639 --> 00:16:31,639 it and they need it. Kids have nothing to do 277 00:16:31,679 --> 00:16:34,000 with marriage, but the kids of same sex headed households, 278 00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:36,279 they really need marriage, and they're very, very happy to 279 00:16:36,320 --> 00:16:38,879 have two moms or two dads. So they had the 280 00:16:39,080 --> 00:16:41,600 science all lined up for them as well, just like 281 00:16:41,639 --> 00:16:45,240 the science behind the vaccine and the science behind transgenderism. 282 00:16:45,480 --> 00:16:48,679 They had trash studies that said, hey, kids love having 283 00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:51,320 two moms or two dads if you go to them 284 00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:54,759 before us substack. I looked at all seventy five of 285 00:16:54,799 --> 00:17:00,480 those studies, and interestingly, when you apply the gold standard 286 00:17:00,879 --> 00:17:04,599 of the scientific method that is generally used when you 287 00:17:04,640 --> 00:17:07,519 want to evaluate whether or not a conclusion for a 288 00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:12,480 sociological survey can be extrapolated to the general population, you 289 00:17:12,519 --> 00:17:15,680 want to look for things like, you know, adequate control 290 00:17:15,759 --> 00:17:20,640 groups or finding random participants rather than just asking somebody 291 00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:25,839 to complete a survey, you know, asking somebody that is 292 00:17:25,880 --> 00:17:28,720 already at a gay and lesbian center if they want 293 00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:33,279 to participate in a study that might impact the Supreme 294 00:17:33,319 --> 00:17:37,000 Court's decision on gay marriage. You're going to look at 295 00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:40,279 the actual outcomes of the children. What's their medical record, 296 00:17:40,319 --> 00:17:42,519 what is their academic record. You're not just going to 297 00:17:42,519 --> 00:17:45,559 ask the parents, Hey, do your kids love having gay moms? 298 00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:48,279 They do? Awesome. Looks like the kids fare no different. 299 00:17:48,720 --> 00:17:51,799 And so I looked at like all of those different variables, 300 00:17:51,839 --> 00:17:55,000 and of those seventy five studies that say that kids 301 00:17:55,000 --> 00:18:00,119 spare no different, there is one. There is one study 302 00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:04,519 that pulled from government data that it actually was a 303 00:18:04,599 --> 00:18:08,079 very small sample size, but at least they used robust methodology, 304 00:18:08,119 --> 00:18:11,759 they had adequate control groups. There was one one out 305 00:18:11,799 --> 00:18:16,039 of seventy five. The other seventy five were so obviously 306 00:18:16,599 --> 00:18:20,559 driven by bias that they really cannot be used in 307 00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:23,680 any meaningful way to say kids fare no different. And 308 00:18:23,720 --> 00:18:26,119 this should surprise none of us. Oh, by the way, 309 00:18:26,519 --> 00:18:28,759 there was one other study that was done since those 310 00:18:28,759 --> 00:18:31,119 seventy five were completed, and it also is a good 311 00:18:31,119 --> 00:18:33,759 study from the Netherlands. But now you have to stack 312 00:18:33,839 --> 00:18:37,200 that up against the several robust studies that we have 313 00:18:37,359 --> 00:18:40,000 of children with same sex parents who show they do 314 00:18:40,079 --> 00:18:43,440 not do as well. And on top of that, you 315 00:18:43,519 --> 00:18:47,559 have to contend with the fact that whenever sociologists are 316 00:18:47,599 --> 00:18:53,920 studying anything other than same sex parents, they overwhelmingly agree 317 00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:59,240 on three things. Number one, biology advantages children a child's 318 00:18:59,279 --> 00:19:02,799 own mother and five are the most connected to, invested in, 319 00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:09,119 and protective of them. Number two that parental loss through death, abandonment, divorce, 320 00:19:10,519 --> 00:19:14,880 even reproductive technologies, children are harmed when they lose their 321 00:19:14,920 --> 00:19:18,759 mom or dad. And three that mothers and fathers offer 322 00:19:18,839 --> 00:19:24,000 distinct and complementary benefits to children. And you could thrown 323 00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:27,200 the fourth that unrelated to adults in the home always 324 00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:29,759 increase risk of abuse and neglect. So that is what 325 00:19:29,839 --> 00:19:33,640 sociologists agree on across the board when you're not talking 326 00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:36,359 about same sex parenting. So then how is it that 327 00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:40,799 these studies the science where children are always missing a 328 00:19:40,799 --> 00:19:45,039 biological parent, they're always raised by an unrelated adult, they've 329 00:19:45,039 --> 00:19:48,359 always suffered the trauma of parental loss, and they're always 330 00:19:48,359 --> 00:19:53,400 starved of either the maternal or paternal love that maximizes development. 331 00:19:53,440 --> 00:19:56,960 How are those kids fearing no different? That's the real question, 332 00:19:57,480 --> 00:20:02,240 and the answer is those no different studies are totally 333 00:20:02,240 --> 00:20:05,759 filled with bias. There's no way that you could come 334 00:20:05,799 --> 00:20:08,960 to that conclusion without upending everything else that we know 335 00:20:09,359 --> 00:20:10,440 about human behavior. 336 00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:14,720 Speaker 1: Our guest today is Katie Faust, founder and president of 337 00:20:14,799 --> 00:20:18,960 Them Before US, spokeswoman for the newly launched Greater Than 338 00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:24,000 campaign advocating for the US Supreme Court to overturn Obergefell 339 00:20:24,119 --> 00:20:28,759 and prioritize children's rights. You mentioned those studies. I want 340 00:20:28,759 --> 00:20:32,359 to talk about the studies that do have the gold standard, 341 00:20:32,599 --> 00:20:37,720 do follow the scientific method, and do find that there 342 00:20:37,839 --> 00:20:43,920 is indeed damage being done. Ten years after the oborga 343 00:20:43,960 --> 00:20:50,000 Fell verdict the ruling, what are they saying on the 344 00:20:50,039 --> 00:20:53,720 topic of same sex marriage and these other arrangements, non 345 00:20:53,759 --> 00:20:55,400 traditional arrangements, if you will. 346 00:20:56,279 --> 00:20:59,960 Speaker 2: Well, The first one to be done was in twenty twelve, 347 00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:03,880 and that was Mark Rignieris's study, the New Family Structure Study, 348 00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:07,839 And it was a bomb that went off because he 349 00:21:08,039 --> 00:21:11,359 did what all the other researchers refused to do. He 350 00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:14,599 went and found these kids as adults, and then he 351 00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:19,599 asked them about their own experiences. It wasn't just gay 352 00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:22,880 father's report that their kids do well in school. Gay 353 00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:26,599 father's report that their kids have great emotional outcomes. Now 354 00:21:26,799 --> 00:21:28,640 they went to the kids that had two moms or 355 00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:33,599 two dads and said, did you have an IEP in school? 356 00:21:34,279 --> 00:21:38,079 Were you ever sexually assaulted? Were you on welfare? Did 357 00:21:38,119 --> 00:21:43,920 you struggle more with any depressive symptoms? And the metrics 358 00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:46,680 were off the charts. You know, when you actually apply 359 00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:51,039 the gold standard method of the scientific method for these 360 00:21:51,079 --> 00:21:55,720 same sex parented studies, that no difference actually becomes massive difference. 361 00:21:57,559 --> 00:21:59,960 You know, we did see higher rates of sexual abuse, 362 00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:04,319 sexual assault, higher rates of academic struggles, mental health challenges, 363 00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:08,319 emotional challenges were definitely off the chart. Substance abuse was 364 00:22:08,359 --> 00:22:10,799 also a big part of it as well well. Then 365 00:22:10,839 --> 00:22:18,200 after that, doctor Paul Solins pulled data from government data 366 00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:23,799 sources and he found that children with same sex parents 367 00:22:24,359 --> 00:22:29,079 had double and triple the rates of emotional problems above 368 00:22:30,079 --> 00:22:34,559 children raised by heterosexual parents. Even things like daily fearfulness 369 00:22:34,599 --> 00:22:39,079 and crying was about four times higher among children with 370 00:22:39,319 --> 00:22:43,359 same sex parents. And then he also corrected a study 371 00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:47,759 that had widely been heralded as showing no difference, and 372 00:22:47,799 --> 00:22:50,640 he said, there was a category error here. You were 373 00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:54,319 accounting some kids as same sex headed households that really 374 00:22:54,359 --> 00:22:56,519 were not in a same sex headed household, and when 375 00:22:56,519 --> 00:23:00,720 he actually categorized them properly, he found that those children 376 00:23:00,799 --> 00:23:04,240 of same sex headed households fared worse. But he also 377 00:23:04,359 --> 00:23:08,599 found that children of married same sex couples did worse 378 00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:13,279 than children of cohabiting same sex couples. Now, we do 379 00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:16,160 not have a we have very very little data now 380 00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:19,079 on the difference between children with cohabiting versus same sex 381 00:23:19,279 --> 00:23:22,720 married couples, because we've only had marriage same sex marriage 382 00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:26,160 for ten years. But when kids were mentioned during the 383 00:23:26,279 --> 00:23:29,799 oral arguments during Obergefel, one of the reasons they said 384 00:23:29,799 --> 00:23:32,480 we need this is the kids with same sex parents. 385 00:23:32,559 --> 00:23:36,400 They need the stability of marriage. And yet doctor Sullen's 386 00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:39,279 found that the children with married same sex parents did 387 00:23:39,279 --> 00:23:42,519 worse than unmarried same sex parents, and he suggested, well, 388 00:23:42,519 --> 00:23:47,440 that's probably because they were more significantly cut off from 389 00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:51,240 their missing parent, whereas the kids with cohabiting same sex parents, 390 00:23:51,839 --> 00:23:55,519 he hypothesized that they probably still had some contact with 391 00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:58,440 their father or their mother that was missing. Maybe that 392 00:23:58,559 --> 00:24:01,039 was more likely the product of a head or sexual breakup, 393 00:24:01,279 --> 00:24:03,319 and so the child still had some kind of a 394 00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:07,559 relationship with the parent that was generally totally excluded in 395 00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:12,799 the married homes. So whenever we actually get good data, 396 00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:15,759 whenever we actually can put our hands on the real 397 00:24:15,799 --> 00:24:23,200 outcomes of kids and not just this ideological smokescreen or 398 00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:26,839 these poor methodologies that allow adults to wish cast on 399 00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:30,000 to children how they hope that they feel, rather than 400 00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:34,640 what they actually experience. The results are damning. And again, 401 00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:38,559 none of this should be a surprise to us. What 402 00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:41,599 gay marriage is, what same sex headed households is. It's 403 00:24:41,759 --> 00:24:45,519 just another variety of broken home. It's just another kind 404 00:24:45,559 --> 00:24:48,960 of broken home. It's just another manifestation of a way 405 00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:52,319 that children lose a relationship with either their mother or 406 00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:55,839 their father or both. And so far in the whole 407 00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:58,960 pantheon of human experience, there's no way for a child 408 00:24:59,039 --> 00:25:02,079 to lose their mother or fother and not be really 409 00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:04,440 significant harm, significantly harmed by it. 410 00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:07,119 Speaker 1: Well, on all of that, let me ask you a 411 00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:09,359 question I think I know the answer to, and a 412 00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:12,559 question I don't know the answer to. The question I 413 00:25:12,599 --> 00:25:16,799 know the answer to because I have, you know, reported 414 00:25:16,799 --> 00:25:20,200 on this. How come the studies that you mentioned that 415 00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:26,279 are you know, they're so telling? They use the gold standard, 416 00:25:26,319 --> 00:25:32,079 as you mentioned, and they're showing absolutely different outcomes for children, 417 00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:35,480 negative outcomes and same sex marriages. How come those are 418 00:25:35,559 --> 00:25:39,000 so buried? We never see those being reported in the 419 00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:46,480 usual arenas, the so called mainstream media, what I like 420 00:25:46,519 --> 00:25:50,799 to call the accomplice media. And I know we're only 421 00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:53,160 ten years out after the fact, but are there any 422 00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:56,640 long term studies The studies you mentioned really dealt with, 423 00:25:56,759 --> 00:25:59,640 you know, the children, a lot of that at the time. 424 00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:04,480 What about the long term impacts of this over ten 425 00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:06,079 fifteen years? 426 00:26:06,279 --> 00:26:10,640 Speaker 2: Good questions, very good questions. So, first of all, a 427 00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:13,079 couple of those are mentioned. You know, it is the 428 00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:17,240 four studies in that Cornell survey, you know, the seventy 429 00:26:17,559 --> 00:26:20,720 five out of seventy nine. Well the other you know, 430 00:26:20,759 --> 00:26:23,839 seventy six, seventy seven, seventy nine that they don't like, 431 00:26:24,319 --> 00:26:27,799 that is Ragnaris, that is doctor Sullens, So they have 432 00:26:27,839 --> 00:26:32,039 to acknowledge them there. But you have these massively strong 433 00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:36,480 studies that are just a handful up against this this 434 00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:44,759 absolute you know, there's just an abundance of garbage studies, 435 00:26:44,799 --> 00:26:46,359 and so it makes it look like all of the 436 00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:49,240 social science is on one side, when the reality is 437 00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:51,559 like anybody can go out and kind of make that 438 00:26:51,559 --> 00:26:53,319 that trash study. But it's very hard to do the 439 00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:56,079 kind of study that Ragnaris or doctor Sullens did, and 440 00:26:56,119 --> 00:26:58,599 that's why it stands up to scrutiny. That's why you 441 00:26:58,599 --> 00:27:02,200 can actually extrapolate to the general population. What studies have 442 00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:05,680 been done since then, very few. There's been a couple 443 00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:08,079 that have come out out of Europe. Like I mentioned, 444 00:27:08,079 --> 00:27:11,720 there was a good one, good By. It actually did 445 00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:15,880 use robust methodology from the Netherlands and it showed on 446 00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:19,319 an academic level that children of lesbians had the same 447 00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:22,359 academic outcomes. So that's one that we do have to 448 00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:25,480 look at and contend with. Most people would say, well, 449 00:27:25,799 --> 00:27:29,359 the lesbians evaluated in that study had us higher socioeconomic status, 450 00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:32,079 so it's probably more of a distinction between rich and poor, 451 00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:35,359 not household structure. But that's a study that really does 452 00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:41,079 deserve some attention in terms of challenging those narratives and anything. 453 00:27:41,079 --> 00:27:43,799 In the United States, there's been virtually nothing. I think 454 00:27:43,839 --> 00:27:48,759 a lot of the research machine shifted as soon as 455 00:27:48,759 --> 00:27:51,559 they got Obergefell. Right, Oh, you're so concerned about outcomes 456 00:27:51,599 --> 00:27:53,799 of children with same sex parents until you get your 457 00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:57,839 legislative win and really that's been it really has hardly 458 00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:01,039 been studied since then. Everybody shift their focus started, you know, 459 00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:06,680 cranking out, in my opinion, ideological material and supposed research 460 00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:10,240 for the question about transgender and transing the kids and 461 00:28:10,279 --> 00:28:11,640 all of that. And now we've seen a lot of 462 00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:16,160 that research also is built on very shifting sands, you know, 463 00:28:16,799 --> 00:28:21,359 So why isn't more being done? Good studies are expensive 464 00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:25,240 and very few institutions are going to fund them because 465 00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:29,200 virtually nobody will publish them. There has been absolute widespread 466 00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:33,680 institutional capture across the social sciences, and so it's hard 467 00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:35,960 to get funding, and it's hard to get approval, and 468 00:28:36,039 --> 00:28:38,960 even if you did get it published somewhere. Ask doctor 469 00:28:39,039 --> 00:28:42,519 rig Nars how that went for him. They absolutely tried 470 00:28:42,559 --> 00:28:46,400 to destroy him, and by God's grace, the university stood 471 00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:49,279 behind him, and that man has been vindicated in terms 472 00:28:49,319 --> 00:28:52,960 of his methodologies. There was just somebody ran his conclusions 473 00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:55,960 through some kind of AI algorithm and in like two 474 00:28:56,039 --> 00:28:58,880 million multiverses. Because there's actually a lot of ways that 475 00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:01,480 you can kind of parse and present data, and so 476 00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:04,200 even if you do get data that's unfavorable, you can 477 00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:05,880 trim and cut and trim and cut and trim and 478 00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:09,319 cut and then present the bit that supports your conclusions. 479 00:29:09,799 --> 00:29:12,440 So somebody did that with Mark Gregniros's data and it 480 00:29:12,519 --> 00:29:17,079 was like, in two million multiverse options, his conclusions held. So, 481 00:29:17,079 --> 00:29:19,480 I mean, it was such a well done study, but 482 00:29:19,559 --> 00:29:22,759 that is hard to do. It's expensive, and even if 483 00:29:22,799 --> 00:29:26,000 you do fund it and publish it, are you able 484 00:29:26,039 --> 00:29:30,599 to withstand the barrage, the attacks not just for you 485 00:29:30,839 --> 00:29:33,599 and your job, but for your family. And most people 486 00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:37,319 don't want to put themselves through that. So the answer is, 487 00:29:37,359 --> 00:29:39,039 we don't know a whole lot about how those kids 488 00:29:39,039 --> 00:29:42,200 have fared since twenty fifteen because no one's studying it. Yeah. 489 00:29:42,279 --> 00:29:45,640 Speaker 1: Well, you know, as an elections correspondent for the Federalist 490 00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:49,960 and covering elections longer than I want to acknowledge, the 491 00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:54,440 mantra is always follow the money. And so I ask 492 00:29:54,519 --> 00:29:58,400 you the same question in these so called seventy five 493 00:29:58,559 --> 00:30:04,920 studies that, according to Cornell corroborate, you know that love 494 00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:09,720 is love, same sex marriages don't have any adverse outcomes 495 00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:12,880 for kids. Who's funding most of these studies? 496 00:30:13,279 --> 00:30:16,000 Speaker 2: That's a great question. I have not done a deep 497 00:30:16,039 --> 00:30:18,119 dive into who is funding them, But the good news 498 00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:20,680 is for them is they're pretty cheap. It's not that 499 00:30:20,759 --> 00:30:24,240 hard to go down to the local LGBTQ center and 500 00:30:24,559 --> 00:30:26,680 you know, have a little poll tab thing like want 501 00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:29,119 to take part in a same sex parenting study? You know, 502 00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:31,720 call this number and then you know complete as something 503 00:30:31,799 --> 00:30:33,960 over the phone or over online, and then you colate 504 00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:35,759 that information. I mean, that's not hard to do and 505 00:30:35,799 --> 00:30:38,920 it's not expensive. So a lot of these I don't 506 00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:41,559 think needed a lot of funding behind them, But because 507 00:30:41,599 --> 00:30:45,599 they conveyed the message that was necessary at the time, 508 00:30:46,079 --> 00:30:48,039 they were treated as something that was legitimate. 509 00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:58,799 Speaker 1: What it means to be a conservative used to be clear, 510 00:30:59,319 --> 00:31:04,079 tax cuts, free markets, Christian family values, and supporting democracies 511 00:31:04,079 --> 00:31:08,200 around the world. That's not true anymore, as anyone following 512 00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:13,400 politics sees every day. As where the new podcast Conservative 513 00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:17,160 Crossroads with Henry Olsen, Senior Fellow at the Ethics and 514 00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:20,799 Public Policy Center comes in and it doesn't shy away 515 00:31:20,839 --> 00:31:23,720 from these disputes. It leans into them by putting two 516 00:31:23,839 --> 00:31:28,640 conservatives who disagree about an important issue together to hash 517 00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:33,039 it out on the air. Every other week, Conservative Crossroads 518 00:31:33,039 --> 00:31:38,799 does what no other program does, explore conservatisms disagreements without 519 00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:43,799 name calling. Conservative Crossroads is the podcast for conservatives who 520 00:31:43,839 --> 00:31:48,680 want to understand what's happening to their movement. Join Henry 521 00:31:48,759 --> 00:31:52,759 Olsen and his guest at Conservative Crossroads every other Monday 522 00:31:52,839 --> 00:31:56,279 as they hash out the ideas and principles that will 523 00:31:56,319 --> 00:32:00,200 decide the future of the right. Download Conservative Crossroads from 524 00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:04,240 our partner Ricochet or any platform where you get your podcast. 525 00:32:04,839 --> 00:32:09,200 Conservativism is at a crossroads, which is why all conservatives 526 00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:21,359 need Conservative Crossroads. Listen today. There is something I think 527 00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:25,720 a lot of Americans have contemplated thought about just trying 528 00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:29,839 to follow all of this, the you know, the cultural 529 00:32:30,359 --> 00:32:33,599 plate tectonics of it all, if you will, not just 530 00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:37,799 from Obergefell, but you know all of these different areas 531 00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:44,319 of the leftist cultural takeover, and that is in the 532 00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:47,359 last several years, if you want to market the last 533 00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:52,680 ten years from Obergefell, you have seen numbers showing, you know, 534 00:32:52,759 --> 00:32:58,839 significant numbers of kids now identifying as gay, or buy 535 00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:03,240 or tran. I think Bill Maher did an excellent piece 536 00:33:03,359 --> 00:33:06,960 on this a while back, showing the numbers of trans 537 00:33:07,039 --> 00:33:11,079 kids in California from the early nineteen nineties until the 538 00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:15,400 early twenty twenties and how that exploded over the years, 539 00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:18,920 and we're all scratching our heads, going, how did that happen? 540 00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:21,960 This is in the same universe that you're dealing with. 541 00:33:22,039 --> 00:33:26,599 But why are we seeing these kinds of numbers that 542 00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:30,200 seem to a lot of Americans as fraudulent. 543 00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:35,519 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, Well, I think that the trans situation was 544 00:33:35,559 --> 00:33:38,599 definitely obviously a social contagent, which is what Bill Maher 545 00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:40,559 was pointing to. There's no way that you can have 546 00:33:40,599 --> 00:33:43,680 a high concentration of transgender kids in San Francisco, but 547 00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:45,759 why are there virtually none in North Carolina. It's a 548 00:33:45,799 --> 00:33:49,759 total mystery. It's because it's absolutely a social contagion. I 549 00:33:49,799 --> 00:33:52,559 think that with the gay marriage thing and the engineering 550 00:33:52,599 --> 00:33:55,440 of the data around children with same sex parents, I 551 00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:58,200 think a lot of that is just kind of the 552 00:33:58,359 --> 00:34:02,559 trajectory of we are here to advance the next wave 553 00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:07,359 of liberation and equality, and right this is the next step. 554 00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:11,599 After we tore down barriers for interracial marriage, you know, 555 00:34:11,599 --> 00:34:13,199 now we're going to move on and tear down barriers 556 00:34:13,199 --> 00:34:15,639 between same sex marriage. And I personally think a lot 557 00:34:15,679 --> 00:34:17,840 of it is, you know, people that grew up in 558 00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:20,960 the seventies and eighties and nineties that so revered the 559 00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:23,639 civil rights movement. I mean, I remember in social studies, 560 00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:26,360 you know, we all thought, well, those that's what heroes 561 00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:29,480 really look like. Where's our movement, where's our campaign? Where's 562 00:34:29,519 --> 00:34:31,800 our chance to fight for the marginalized and the most vulnerable? 563 00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:34,639 And day marriage served that up on a plate. You know, 564 00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:38,440 this is your chance to also, you know, tear down 565 00:34:38,519 --> 00:34:41,920 the barriers, just like you know what our black brothers 566 00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:43,760 and sisters had to face under Jim Crow. And I 567 00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:46,480 will say, there's an awful lot of black pastors that 568 00:34:46,519 --> 00:34:50,079 are like, uh, no, you don't. You do not get 569 00:34:50,079 --> 00:34:53,199 to co opt our story of civil rights and our 570 00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:59,599 suffering because you cannot have your sexual relationship validated by 571 00:34:59,639 --> 00:34:59,960 the state. 572 00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:03,239 Speaker 1: Oh no, no, I agree with you. But what about 573 00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:09,960 intersexual in intersectionality in all radical leftist terms where they're 574 00:35:10,039 --> 00:35:12,119 you know, and that gets you to back to the 575 00:35:12,159 --> 00:35:14,360 point where you were talking about before. Is this nothing 576 00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:18,400 more than just power? Uh? It is to put people 577 00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:23,360 on the left, the Marxist left, into power. They're they're 578 00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:27,239 using this. It's a vehicle to get people elected. 579 00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:28,199 Speaker 2: Uh. 580 00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:33,280 Speaker 1: And and then ultimately to change and redefine not only 581 00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:34,840 society but reality. 582 00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:38,960 Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, and I will say that it's strange that 583 00:35:39,159 --> 00:35:42,800 Marxism always seems to have this component of separating children 584 00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:46,559 from parents. You absolutely can see it in you know, 585 00:35:46,639 --> 00:35:51,800 like Maus Red Youth, you know the Metal Red Book, Yeah, 586 00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:55,079 Little Red Book, and you know, they all sort of 587 00:35:55,079 --> 00:35:58,920 have their own movement. I just especially familiar with China 588 00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:01,840 where you start to now as your father, not your parents. 589 00:36:02,039 --> 00:36:03,880 He's your father, right, He's the one that you rely on. 590 00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:06,239 He's the one you should turn your parents in. But 591 00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:10,519 then there also is this family deconstruction element as well, 592 00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:13,639 of children don't belong to you, they belong to the state. 593 00:36:14,199 --> 00:36:18,239 And this absolutely just goes hand in hand. We understand 594 00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:21,320 that there has been a right. Parental rights have been 595 00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:23,639 under attack. All of us have seen it. We're up 596 00:36:23,719 --> 00:36:27,559 in arms. Governor Glenn Youngin got elected because people are like, 597 00:36:27,639 --> 00:36:30,400 don't you touch my kids. So we understand that parents 598 00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:33,719 have a right to their own children. But we need 599 00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:35,719 to start looking at is actually children have a right 600 00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:38,360 to their own parents as well. There's two sides of 601 00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:42,400 that natural law coin right, that relationship between parents and 602 00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:46,079 child has been privileged by the state going back to 603 00:36:46,119 --> 00:36:50,320 the colonial times, because there is something critical about that 604 00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:55,400 that safeguards against government overreach, and now, in the name 605 00:36:55,519 --> 00:37:01,159 of marriage equality, they are deconstructing that further. They're beginning 606 00:37:01,199 --> 00:37:04,480 by separating children from the parents. But if children don't 607 00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:06,519 have a claim to their own parents in the world 608 00:37:06,599 --> 00:37:09,079 of natural law and in the common law, why on 609 00:37:09,079 --> 00:37:10,880 don ours two parents have a claim to their own children. 610 00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:15,480 Isn't that relationship? So that's two sides of the same coin. 611 00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:20,719 And so this ultimately will weaken parental rights because if 612 00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:23,199 the government can decide who is and is not a parent, 613 00:37:23,239 --> 00:37:25,639 if they have that kind of power, which is exactly 614 00:37:25,679 --> 00:37:28,239 what we have given them in the last ten years. 615 00:37:29,519 --> 00:37:31,719 We used to say, how do you know what a 616 00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:35,519 parent is? A parent is the genetic parent they gave 617 00:37:35,599 --> 00:37:41,559 birth or they're biologically related. We didn't do evaluations on 618 00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:45,440 pregnant women and their husbands because we presumed that that 619 00:37:45,559 --> 00:37:48,840 was a pre political relationship that the state wasn't going 620 00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:51,199 to get involved in unless there was abuse or neglect, 621 00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:54,679 and then the state gets involved, often very hesitantly. But 622 00:37:55,159 --> 00:37:57,920 then we said, okay, there's one other way that we 623 00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:01,280 can recognize that you have a claim to a child, 624 00:38:01,599 --> 00:38:05,239 and that is adoption. If you undergo significant screening and 625 00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:09,599 vetting and background checks to as much as possible replicate 626 00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:13,840 the kind of protectiveness that biological parents naturally have for 627 00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:17,199 their own children. Then you also can be a parent. 628 00:38:18,079 --> 00:38:21,280 But in the world of modern family, both of those 629 00:38:22,079 --> 00:38:26,039 are discriminatory because same sex couples can never both be 630 00:38:26,159 --> 00:38:29,079 biologically related. And many of them felt like it was 631 00:38:29,159 --> 00:38:32,400 undignified to have to adopt a child that is the 632 00:38:33,039 --> 00:38:35,719 son of the woman that they're married to. I mean, 633 00:38:36,119 --> 00:38:38,280 men don't have to do that when their wife gives birth. 634 00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:40,000 Why do I have to do it when my wife 635 00:38:40,039 --> 00:38:41,920 gives birth. Well, the difference is the man is the 636 00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:45,079 biological parent of the child and you are a genetic stranger. 637 00:38:45,679 --> 00:38:47,360 And so what they did is they said, we're going 638 00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:51,039 to create new pathways of child acquisition. So now it's 639 00:38:51,119 --> 00:38:55,119 just not just biology, it's not adoption. We have created 640 00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:59,000 new pathways in the name of adult equality, for unrelated 641 00:38:59,039 --> 00:39:04,559 adults to take possession of infants. It's called intent based 642 00:39:04,559 --> 00:39:09,079 parented or de facto parented. It's actually just state sanctioned trafficking. 643 00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:13,159 But what we're doing here, notice, is a massive power 644 00:39:13,199 --> 00:39:16,800 grab of the state. Now it's not biology that determines 645 00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:19,519 whether you are or not a parent. Now it is 646 00:39:19,599 --> 00:39:23,280 the government that decides when you are or not a parent. 647 00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:25,920 And let me be very clear with you. If the 648 00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:29,679 state can decide who is and is not a parent arbitrarily, 649 00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:32,400 not because of biology, if they can assign that to 650 00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:34,920 an unrelated adult, it is much more easy for them 651 00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:39,559 to unassign you as the biological parents, as the legal 652 00:39:39,559 --> 00:39:41,880 parents of your own biological children. I wrote about this 653 00:39:41,960 --> 00:39:44,639 at First Things in the fall. It's called the end 654 00:39:44,679 --> 00:39:48,480 of natural parenthood, and I looked at nine different statutes 655 00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:51,840 that used to recognize the pre eminence of the natural 656 00:39:51,880 --> 00:39:56,840 parent child relationship, and all nine has been weakened or 657 00:39:58,280 --> 00:40:03,119 gutted because of Obergefel. So this is not just a 658 00:40:03,159 --> 00:40:07,079 threat to the children who become intentionally motherless or fatherless 659 00:40:07,079 --> 00:40:09,800 because of new gay marriage laws. This is a threat 660 00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:12,880 to every parent child relationship. So when I talk about 661 00:40:12,880 --> 00:40:16,440 how significant the impact is that Obergefel has had on law, 662 00:40:17,320 --> 00:40:22,360 people just don't understand. And there are very real children 663 00:40:22,519 --> 00:40:24,920 that are being harmed because of this. But also this 664 00:40:25,039 --> 00:40:28,280 is actually a threat to all of society, to every 665 00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:29,280 parent and every child. 666 00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:33,719 Speaker 1: There are some real horror stories out there as well 667 00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:39,119 about parental rights being taken away because that biological parent 668 00:40:39,159 --> 00:40:42,039 didn't want to see their child mutilated, didn't want to 669 00:40:42,079 --> 00:40:48,159 see their child, you know, with you know, most control. 670 00:40:48,840 --> 00:40:53,280 The parent who then became involved in a same sex relationship, 671 00:40:53,320 --> 00:40:57,840 what have you. The parent wanted more custodial rights and 672 00:40:58,239 --> 00:41:01,320 lost them in the bargain. I mean, as you mentioned before, 673 00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:04,199 these are our stories that are going on. These are 674 00:41:04,039 --> 00:41:08,719 the faces of what's happened over the last ten years 675 00:41:08,719 --> 00:41:09,639 since Obergefell. 676 00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:11,920 Speaker 2: I think a lot of us are familiar with that. 677 00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:17,039 How ideology has encroached on parental rights and it's horrifying. 678 00:41:17,679 --> 00:41:20,480 But when children don't have a right to their own parents, 679 00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:24,440 and that's what Obergerfeld does, it destroys the claim that 680 00:41:24,519 --> 00:41:27,079 children have to their own parents. It regards them as 681 00:41:27,079 --> 00:41:30,159 functional accessories to be awarded to any and every adult. 682 00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:34,880 What Obergefeld did is it removed all the contours of 683 00:41:34,920 --> 00:41:37,840 the natural family in law. You probably have not looked 684 00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:40,360 at a legal document recently, but if in state law 685 00:41:40,639 --> 00:41:42,559 or federal law, you probably are not seeing the words 686 00:41:42,559 --> 00:41:46,000 mother and father. You're probably seeing the words guardian or parent. 687 00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:50,760 Speaker 1: You may be inmated person person yea. In the state 688 00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:52,880 of Wisconsin by the way based on all kinds of 689 00:41:53,039 --> 00:41:54,800 and it's not alone. I mean that's the one that 690 00:41:55,119 --> 00:42:00,559 came out the governor there took the leftist governor. Well, 691 00:42:00,639 --> 00:42:02,360 it took a lot of heat, of course from the 692 00:42:02,440 --> 00:42:04,800 right on something that he should have taken a lot 693 00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:08,639 of heat for the sort of changing terminology that's right. 694 00:42:08,519 --> 00:42:11,280 Speaker 2: And what you cannot name, you cannot defend. And so 695 00:42:11,480 --> 00:42:13,800 you're taking out mother and father. You can't defend a 696 00:42:13,880 --> 00:42:17,159 child's right to their mother and father. You're reducing biology 697 00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:20,480 in terms of its importance. You're elevating intent based parenthood. 698 00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:22,639 Now it's like any way that you acquire a child 699 00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:26,039 is legitimate in a lot of jurisdictions. They've redefined the 700 00:42:26,039 --> 00:42:31,960 word infertility because it's discriminatory. You know, if twelve months 701 00:42:31,960 --> 00:42:35,199 of unprotected heterosexual sex deems you infertile, and then you 702 00:42:35,199 --> 00:42:38,360 can get insurance benefits that will subsidize your IVF coverage 703 00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:42,000 for heterosexuals. But a same sex couple can have as 704 00:42:42,079 --> 00:42:45,159 much unprotected heterosexual sex as they want. They'll never result 705 00:42:45,159 --> 00:42:47,519 in a pregnancy or a life. Word, that's discrimination. So 706 00:42:47,559 --> 00:42:51,639 they've redefined infertility. Now there's no recognition that the procreative 707 00:42:51,679 --> 00:42:55,039 relationship has anything special to offer society or you're not 708 00:42:55,079 --> 00:42:59,559 allowed to say that. It's just any two is helpful, 709 00:42:59,639 --> 00:43:02,239 and you know, that's the stable bond that we're looking for. 710 00:43:02,599 --> 00:43:05,400 And so what they've done is they have stripped the 711 00:43:05,679 --> 00:43:10,360 law of all of the distinctives of the natural family. 712 00:43:11,119 --> 00:43:14,239 That's what they've done. And when that's the problem is 713 00:43:14,239 --> 00:43:16,599 all that's really important, Like mothers and fathers are important 714 00:43:16,599 --> 00:43:19,320 to kids, a biological connection or a minimum and adoption 715 00:43:19,440 --> 00:43:23,119 is important to kids. Not having the insurance companies subsidize 716 00:43:23,119 --> 00:43:26,000 the manufacturing of motherless or fatherless kids, all of that 717 00:43:26,039 --> 00:43:29,679 matters to kids. And so what we've seen here is 718 00:43:30,639 --> 00:43:33,920 the commodification of children. That is what happens when the 719 00:43:33,960 --> 00:43:38,039 only contours of family law is what the adults want. 720 00:43:38,519 --> 00:43:40,599 Male and female aren't part of it. Biology isn't a 721 00:43:40,639 --> 00:43:43,239 part of it. Genuine infertility is not a part of it. 722 00:43:43,320 --> 00:43:47,000 The only guiding principle in parenthood law now is is 723 00:43:47,039 --> 00:43:50,719 the adult happy. That means that children are commodities to 724 00:43:50,800 --> 00:43:53,840 be awarded to any and every adult. So what is 725 00:43:53,880 --> 00:43:57,480 the result of that, Yes, some children are going to 726 00:43:57,480 --> 00:44:01,320 be raised by same sex couples, but also you'll have 727 00:44:02,360 --> 00:44:08,519 twenty one children created by Chinese nationals in California through surrogacy, 728 00:44:09,239 --> 00:44:12,280 fifteen of which are under the age of three. You're 729 00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:14,480 going to have a seventy four year old man who 730 00:44:14,519 --> 00:44:18,079 has six year old twins that he created through IVF 731 00:44:18,119 --> 00:44:22,440 and surrogacy. You're going to have sex offenders and predators 732 00:44:22,480 --> 00:44:26,800 acquiring children and handing them over. Because that's the world 733 00:44:26,840 --> 00:44:29,880 of Obergefel, that is the world of modern family. If 734 00:44:29,920 --> 00:44:33,280 biology doesn't matter, if gender does not matter, if children 735 00:44:33,320 --> 00:44:35,280 don't have a claim to their own mother and father, 736 00:44:35,920 --> 00:44:39,480 if intent and contracts are the only thing that makes 737 00:44:39,519 --> 00:44:42,920 you a parent, then you can mass produce them. Pedophiles 738 00:44:42,920 --> 00:44:47,280 can acquire them. Retirees can raise their own caregivers. All 739 00:44:47,320 --> 00:44:51,400 of that is what you get when you legalize gay marriage. 740 00:44:51,760 --> 00:44:53,800 So you can either believe that children have a right 741 00:44:53,840 --> 00:44:56,840 to their mother and father or you can support gay marriage. 742 00:44:57,599 --> 00:44:59,840 Pick you can't have both. 743 00:45:00,880 --> 00:45:04,159 Speaker 1: Well, isn't it all just the extension of the concept 744 00:45:04,199 --> 00:45:09,079 from the abortion industry that it's just a clump of cells, 745 00:45:09,599 --> 00:45:12,440 just a collection of cells. And that's how they've argued 746 00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:21,679 about the preborn not being you know, living dreams of 747 00:45:23,239 --> 00:45:26,599 the parents. And now they've taken that of course to 748 00:45:28,639 --> 00:45:33,360 children who have been treated this way for some time, 749 00:45:33,400 --> 00:45:37,280 as you mentioned, as commodities for the feelings of parents. 750 00:45:37,519 --> 00:45:40,920 Final question, what's next for Greater Than I know you're 751 00:45:40,960 --> 00:45:43,880 just launching now, but I know there are a lot 752 00:45:43,920 --> 00:45:46,840 of different fronts here. What's next for the campaign? 753 00:45:47,360 --> 00:45:50,280 Speaker 2: Well, we have three goals. The first one is to 754 00:45:50,360 --> 00:45:53,920 create a credible judicial strategy for success, and we do 755 00:45:53,960 --> 00:45:56,679 feel like we have that, And if you are a 756 00:45:56,679 --> 00:45:58,760 policymaker at the state level and would like to be 757 00:45:58,760 --> 00:46:00,440 a part of that, you can come to the campaign 758 00:46:00,519 --> 00:46:02,920 website and email us and we'll give you some ideas 759 00:46:02,920 --> 00:46:05,800 about how you can participate. Number two, we need to 760 00:46:05,840 --> 00:46:09,440 change public opinion, and so thankfully I've got some incredible 761 00:46:10,079 --> 00:46:13,559 influencers on board, from Michael Knowles to Lila Rose, to 762 00:46:13,559 --> 00:46:18,400 Ali Stuckey, to Abby Johnson and Steve Dason, Josh Hammer 763 00:46:18,480 --> 00:46:22,000 and Hidi Saint John and Delana Squire's and I mean 764 00:46:22,079 --> 00:46:25,840 just really some incredible people, Lisa Vivie that are involved 765 00:46:25,840 --> 00:46:29,360 in that effort. And the goal is to help people 766 00:46:29,480 --> 00:46:34,039 understand the very direct connection between gay marriage and child 767 00:46:34,119 --> 00:46:39,079 victimization and natural marriage and child protection. So we are 768 00:46:39,119 --> 00:46:42,000 going to change the way Americans think about marriage. We 769 00:46:42,079 --> 00:46:45,440 are going to communicate this is not primarily about adult 770 00:46:45,559 --> 00:46:50,960 emotional validation, this is about child protection. And then third, 771 00:46:51,320 --> 00:46:53,920 we need to turn the church into a child centric 772 00:46:54,039 --> 00:46:57,760 fighting force. So I've got a wonderful team of Catholics 773 00:46:57,760 --> 00:47:01,159 and Protestants who are going to develop some materials for 774 00:47:01,320 --> 00:47:05,679 Christians so they can understand their job is child protection 775 00:47:06,320 --> 00:47:09,199 and advancing a true definition of marriage is one way 776 00:47:09,239 --> 00:47:12,039 that we Christians are going to do that. So there's 777 00:47:12,079 --> 00:47:15,760 a lot of head in terms of activity, Definitely a 778 00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:19,000 lot of head ahead as it relates to opposition to 779 00:47:19,079 --> 00:47:23,639 what we're working on. But I feel very confident that 780 00:47:23,760 --> 00:47:26,440 when we have this question, when we look at this 781 00:47:26,480 --> 00:47:30,440 issue through the lens of putting kids first, we're going 782 00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:33,000 to see a lot of clarity, both in the culture 783 00:47:33,119 --> 00:47:34,119 and in the courtroom. 784 00:47:35,079 --> 00:47:38,360 Speaker 1: There are no more important battles, no battle that is 785 00:47:38,400 --> 00:47:41,920 more important than the battle for our children and for 786 00:47:41,960 --> 00:47:45,639 their future. Thanks to my guest today, Katie Foust, founder 787 00:47:45,679 --> 00:47:49,400 and president of Them Before US, spokeswoman for the newly 788 00:47:49,480 --> 00:47:53,519 launched Greater Than campaign advocating for the US Supreme Court 789 00:47:53,559 --> 00:47:58,840 to overturn or Burga Fell and prioritize children's rights. You've 790 00:47:58,840 --> 00:48:01,599 been listening to another edition The Federalist Radio Hour. I'm 791 00:48:01,639 --> 00:48:05,480 Matt Kittle, Senior Elections correspondent at the Federalist. We'll be 792 00:48:05,559 --> 00:48:10,280 back soon with more. Until then, stay lovers of freedom 793 00:48:10,320 --> 00:48:13,480 and anxious for the fray 794 00:48:18,280 --> 00:48:20,920 Speaker 2: Where I've been out walking