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<v Speaker 1>Hey, everybody, welcome to Pink Shade.

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<v Speaker 2>It's Thursday, and that means we're going to talk about

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<v Speaker 2>pop culture and Bravo. And I've got a new guest.

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<v Speaker 2>It is Melissa, who is known as your bish therapist.

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<v Speaker 2>And do we say your last name Reich or reich

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<v Speaker 2>Or's wrong?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah?

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<v Speaker 3>Right?

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<v Speaker 1>That was great. Okay, it's very good to meet you.

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<v Speaker 3>So good to meet you, Mary Payne. I feel like

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<v Speaker 3>we've traveled in the same circles and I just adore you.

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<v Speaker 3>I love this podcast, so grateful to be here.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and we have a mutual friend, Amy Phillips, yes,

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<v Speaker 2>who gave me info so I could reach out and

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<v Speaker 2>I was like, all right, I was like, I got somebody,

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<v Speaker 2>I got. I gotta break down. I'm following all the trials,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm solving all the murders, and I am so interested

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<v Speaker 2>to hear your take as a therepist on Love Hotel

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<v Speaker 2>and the Valley and what's going on with Real Housewives

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<v Speaker 2>of Atlanta I'm watching. I'm not a below deck person

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<v Speaker 2>and I have nothing against it. It's just there's so

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<v Speaker 2>many that somewhere along the way they lost me, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>by the way.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, Okay, So Summerhouse I'm in on, but Below Deck

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<v Speaker 3>I feel the same way. I've not watched one episode.

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<v Speaker 3>There's too many iterations. And also I'm one of those

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<v Speaker 3>weird people that I get so seasick even sometimes watching

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<v Speaker 3>the movement it actually makes me. Yeah. So I also

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<v Speaker 3>never gravitated towards it. And so you're not.

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<v Speaker 2>Alone, Okay, I mean I've watched like I've watched it,

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<v Speaker 2>but the last few seasons, I haven't watched A couple

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<v Speaker 2>of seas ago, I watched a whole season and covered

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<v Speaker 2>it and I really didn't even tell you why. I think, Oh,

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<v Speaker 2>because there was a crossover with a person that was

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<v Speaker 2>on another show I was covering with Deanna Chang, which

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<v Speaker 2>was Milf manor Oh Danna and I were covering that,

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<v Speaker 2>and one of the one of the young boys, I

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<v Speaker 2>mean a thirty something year old, twenty something year old,

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<v Speaker 2>was on Below Deck as a charter guest.

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<v Speaker 1>So I was like, oh, well, we're gonna have to

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<v Speaker 1>cover that.

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<v Speaker 2>So then I got sucked into the season Summerhouse.

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<v Speaker 1>Listen.

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<v Speaker 2>I know that makes me a liability for anybody who

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<v Speaker 2>wants to talk Bravo with me, But I've never watched

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<v Speaker 2>a whole episode really, and it's just too late.

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<v Speaker 1>I can't catch up.

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<v Speaker 3>See, can I be honest? I disagree with that. Now

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<v Speaker 3>here's people ask me to cover sister Wives all the time.

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<v Speaker 3>That's too late to catch up on like that boat

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<v Speaker 3>has there's like forty seven seasons. Yes, I'm they sit.

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<v Speaker 1>Around and do nothing.

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<v Speaker 3>Yes, right, But I really do think Summerhouse you can

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<v Speaker 3>pick up. I mean, listen, no pressure, because I think

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<v Speaker 3>that we all as content creators, we have the bandwidth

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<v Speaker 3>for what we have the bandwidth for, and if you don't,

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<v Speaker 3>that is totally fine. But it is really good. And

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<v Speaker 3>I haven't watched since the beginning. I picked up in

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<v Speaker 3>the middle because I kind of felt the same way

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<v Speaker 3>in terms of like, I don't know how relevant it

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<v Speaker 3>is to watch from the beginning, but I started picking

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<v Speaker 3>up somewhere in the middle and now I'm totally in

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<v Speaker 3>so it listen. It's never too late.

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<v Speaker 2>I know, And it maybe if I ever have like

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<v Speaker 2>an extended vacation or I have some sort of surgery

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<v Speaker 2>where I have to like sit in the bed.

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<v Speaker 1>That did happen to me? Yeah, that's that's what I'm

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<v Speaker 1>hoping for.

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<v Speaker 2>A few years ago, I had a surgery, and I

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<v Speaker 2>watched all of Doubton Abbey because I'd never watched one episode. Well,

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<v Speaker 2>I really felt like i'd accomplished something. I mean, I

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<v Speaker 2>went all the way through the movies like I did

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<v Speaker 2>it all I felt and that got me through. So

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<v Speaker 2>if ever I have to have another major surgery summerhouse,

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<v Speaker 2>it is okay.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, let's also not hope that you have to have

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<v Speaker 3>a surgery so you can watch. I hope you stay healthy.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, only if it's like something fun,

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<v Speaker 2>like a facelift or like a tummy tucker or something.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, absolutely sure, I'm with you. Yep.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Well let's talk about these shows.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay.

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<v Speaker 2>So well, first I want to talk about pop culture,

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<v Speaker 2>because I like to start with pop culture. Are you

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<v Speaker 2>in on the Karen Reid trial? I mean literally that

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<v Speaker 2>is on my phone right this minute. I just paused

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<v Speaker 2>it because I'm not caught up.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I am dialed in to the Karen Trial. I

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<v Speaker 3>have watched every single solitary episode of anything that has

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<v Speaker 3>to do with her. I am fascinated.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, well, I've been watching the trial every single day.

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<v Speaker 2>I was very happy when I drove here to the beach.

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<v Speaker 2>I had six hours in the car by myself. I

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<v Speaker 2>could just listen to trial coverage, like literally listened to

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<v Speaker 2>Emily b Baker, Emily de Baker tell me about the

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<v Speaker 2>trial while the trial was trialing. So today when I

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<v Speaker 2>was flying, I did miss a little bit of the

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<v Speaker 2>testimony because I was flying. I got up, got right

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<v Speaker 2>back in rewound, found where I was. Now they just

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<v Speaker 2>this today. We're recording this Wednesday. It comes out Thursday.

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<v Speaker 2>But they just announced no court Thursday, Friday, Monday, see

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<v Speaker 2>you back on Tuesday, because they already were going to

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<v Speaker 2>take the weekend, but then something happened where they're ahead

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<v Speaker 2>on their witnesses.

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<v Speaker 1>To testify.

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<v Speaker 2>So I think that whoever was like the next one

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<v Speaker 2>probably like couldn't be in town because they were scheduled

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<v Speaker 2>to go on Tuesday. So they're like, no court Thursday, Friday, Monday.

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<v Speaker 2>So that's gonna be upsetting for me. It's going to

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<v Speaker 2>be a long break for me.

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<v Speaker 3>That's so fascinating because I don't know how they're ahead

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<v Speaker 3>because she was sick and then court had to be

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<v Speaker 3>canceled only one day, you know, but you would think

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<v Speaker 3>that would be behind, not ahead. That is that's interesting.

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<v Speaker 1>MM hmm. So what am I going to do?

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<v Speaker 2>So between now and then, what I'm going to do

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<v Speaker 2>is I'm ketch up on the Diddy trial. Now I

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<v Speaker 2>watch I'm up to date and Brian Coberger. I'm ready

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<v Speaker 2>for that, Yes, But the Diddy trial, I've I've been

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<v Speaker 2>listening to Kate Casey because she's covering it. I've been

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<v Speaker 2>listening to her coverage. She's got a lawyer on there

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<v Speaker 2>that's talking to her. I think I'll be interested to

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<v Speaker 2>hear your point of view, from a therapist point of view,

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<v Speaker 2>from the Cassie Ventura what I've seen, Like I said,

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<v Speaker 2>I haven't been following it as closely, but what I

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<v Speaker 2>saw was she explained everything. But of course, what they're

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<v Speaker 2>always going to bring up in things like this is

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<v Speaker 2>her willing to dissipation in quite a bit of it,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, And this is it hasn't quite got to

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<v Speaker 2>where I feel like it's blamed the victim, but it's

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<v Speaker 2>skating the edge of blaming the victim. And you have

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<v Speaker 2>to remember he met her when she was very young,

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<v Speaker 2>and you know, groomed her and kept her around, and

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<v Speaker 2>so yeah, if she's sending him these suggestive texts, like

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<v Speaker 2>she's ready for the freak golf, or she can't wait,

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<v Speaker 2>or yes, she'll contact the prostitute.

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<v Speaker 1>Whatever. I see it.

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<v Speaker 2>As grooming, and she's doing what she's told because now

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<v Speaker 2>she's got this life that she's living.

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<v Speaker 1>Anyway, I think they skated a very fine line on

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<v Speaker 1>blaming the victim there. What are your thoughts.

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<v Speaker 3>I don't think they skated the line. I think they

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<v Speaker 3>crossed it. But if I'm being honest, I think whenever

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<v Speaker 3>women historically are put in this position, it is always

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<v Speaker 3>a group of male lawyers trying to victim blame, victim shame,

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<v Speaker 3>slut shame, right, because having kinks isn't anything to go

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<v Speaker 3>on trial for. But what you said a word, which

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<v Speaker 3>is grooming, I fully agree, and so I actually went

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<v Speaker 3>on Rachel Levis. I went on her podcast, I think

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<v Speaker 3>it was last year, you know, after the scandal happened,

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<v Speaker 3>and I talked about grooming because in the core of law,

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<v Speaker 3>there is a lot that people and abusers can get

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<v Speaker 3>away with because psychological abuse there's not a lot of

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<v Speaker 3>great definitions and there's certainly not a lot of great

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<v Speaker 3>accountability holding in terms of our justice system that.

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<v Speaker 1>We have to prove it right. How do you prove it.

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<v Speaker 2>How do you prove that that person was groomed to,

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<v Speaker 2>not just doing it of their own free will?

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, yeah, right, right.

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<v Speaker 3>But anyone with any sort of common sense or observational

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<v Speaker 3>skills whatsoever can see that as he was very young,

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<v Speaker 3>she was absolutely groomed by him. And it sounds like,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, some of those texts and things, what happens

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<v Speaker 3>is when you're in abusive relationships, which is wholeheartedly what

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<v Speaker 3>this was. Did you see the video of him attacking

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<v Speaker 3>her in the hallway and throwing her around road?

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<v Speaker 2>So it's so nobody's going to look at that and

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<v Speaker 2>be like, oh, she's terrified of him, and here's why.

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<v Speaker 3>And if that's what he's willing to do in a

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<v Speaker 3>public corridor where there's a hallway, can you imagine what

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<v Speaker 3>he was willing to do behind closed doors. It's absolutely

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<v Speaker 3>frightening and it's astounding to me but not surprising, how

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<v Speaker 3>the lengths that this misogynistic culture will go to to

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<v Speaker 3>try to tear women down. And this is why women

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<v Speaker 3>don't come forward, because there's the abuse, there's the assaults,

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<v Speaker 3>and then it happens all over again in a court

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<v Speaker 3>of law, and it's just it's it's a very broken system. Cassie,

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<v Speaker 3>in my opinion, is an absolute angel who is meaning

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<v Speaker 3>angel on earth in terms of her strength, her perseverance,

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<v Speaker 3>and her willingness to say, you know what, I know,

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<v Speaker 3>I'm going to be torn down here, but I'm going

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<v Speaker 3>to hold him accountable so that he can't hurt more people.

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<v Speaker 3>And I just think her bravery is really something that

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<v Speaker 3>should be celebrated and she shouldn't be torn down in anything.

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<v Speaker 2>I think a lot of people that are maybe going

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<v Speaker 2>to be coming forward to testifying are feeling safer to

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<v Speaker 2>speak their mind because he's behind bars, you know, because

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<v Speaker 2>if he wasn't behind bars, and we haven't heard of

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<v Speaker 2>yet a sort of a number two person that's running

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<v Speaker 2>his enterprise, and maybe there is someone, but if you

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<v Speaker 2>were afraid of him, and then you're also afraid of

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<v Speaker 2>whoever's number two is, it doesn't seem like a number

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<v Speaker 2>two has been revealed that people would be afraid of

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<v Speaker 2>that person. It seems like more people are coming forward

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<v Speaker 2>with stories because he's behind bars and they feel safer.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 3>Right, And I think to your point, that is a

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<v Speaker 3>huge factor in terms of why women don't come forward

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<v Speaker 3>or why they acquiesce essentially to the abuse. So her

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<v Speaker 3>text to me is not evidence of her participating, it's

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<v Speaker 3>her evidence of her acquiescing because she doesn't want to

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<v Speaker 3>get injured or killed or you know, I mean, I

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<v Speaker 3>think for all intents and purposes. You know, I don't

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<v Speaker 3>know Diddy. I haven't assessed him. You know, I can't

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<v Speaker 3>speak on that, but his behaviors, I can say are

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<v Speaker 3>indicative of a very dangerous person, likely with some very

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<v Speaker 3>severe psychopathology. And what psychopathology is is just kind of

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<v Speaker 3>you know, you hear people use the term sociopath's psychopath

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<v Speaker 3>and essentially it's all you know, the psychological correct term

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<v Speaker 3>is sociopathy. And that happens when people you know, lack

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<v Speaker 3>empathy consistently over time. And so not only does he

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<v Speaker 3>like empathy, I just feel this visceral reaction every time

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<v Speaker 3>I see you know, that video or something he says

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<v Speaker 3>or does you know, I'm kind of like I joke

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<v Speaker 3>a little bit, I'm like a bomb sniffing dog when

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<v Speaker 3>it comes to sociopathy. Okay, in my history, I've worked

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<v Speaker 3>with a lot of different populations. I'm trying to figure

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<v Speaker 3>out how to say this diplomatically, and so I just

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<v Speaker 3>am really able to with certain men with those characteristics.

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<v Speaker 3>It's like a visceral feeling that I get in my

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<v Speaker 3>body and I just feel that whenever I watch any

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<v Speaker 3>sort of coverage with him.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and we talk a lot on our shows about

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<v Speaker 2>sociopath and psychopath and explain to me the difference, because

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<v Speaker 2>I know one is sort of like you're born with

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<v Speaker 2>it and the other one is sort of like you

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<v Speaker 2>become Is that right?

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<v Speaker 3>Well, and so there essentially euphemisms for the same term,

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<v Speaker 3>which is psychopathology. So a sociopath and a psychopath, people

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<v Speaker 3>will say. People online, if you look at TikTok, they'll say, well,

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<v Speaker 3>this means this, and this means this. It's hard.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm getting my information, let's be real.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and listen fair enough. I get I'm on TikTok too,

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<v Speaker 3>and I have to check myself too. I'm like is

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<v Speaker 3>that right? And I'm like, well, I don't believe that.

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<v Speaker 3>So they can be very convincing, but it's essentially just

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<v Speaker 3>one broad umbrella term, which is psychopathology. And what those

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<v Speaker 3>terms mean is that brain studies and imaging have shown

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<v Speaker 3>that people who have psychopathology, they you know, their frontal

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<v Speaker 3>lobes and certain areas of the brain do not light

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<v Speaker 3>up the way that other folks who have healthy functioning

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<v Speaker 3>brains do, and so there is some biological you know,

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<v Speaker 3>really the answer to why things happen the way they

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<v Speaker 3>are is it's called epigenetics, and epigenetics is when environment

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<v Speaker 3>meets genetics, and so it really, you know, the old

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<v Speaker 3>in psychology was nature or nurture, and we now know

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<v Speaker 3>the answer is always both, I mean usually both. And

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<v Speaker 3>so psycho pathology means that in terms of how they behave,

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<v Speaker 3>they don't have pro social behaviors, meaning they don't have empathy.

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<v Speaker 3>They're very self serving. They use other people to serve

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<v Speaker 3>their needs and desires. But lack of empathy is really

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<v Speaker 3>the only huge defining characteristic for those specific diagnoses. I

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<v Speaker 3>would say, if that makes sense.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So when you see somebody, we'll say Jacks. So

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<v Speaker 2>Jack's a long time ago on Stacy's podcast, and that

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<v Speaker 2>was one of the first podcasts to ever listen to

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<v Speaker 2>because I love Stacy and come at me, I don't care.

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<v Speaker 2>And she had a podcast that was really good, and

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<v Speaker 2>she still does have a podcast, she has kind of

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<v Speaker 2>a different one now, but she sat down with Jack

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<v Speaker 2>I think it was. Even on vander Pump Rules, she

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<v Speaker 2>sat down with Jack's for her podcast and gave him

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<v Speaker 2>it was was it a sociopath test or a narcissist test?

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<v Speaker 2>He passed with the line colors.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh well, okay, so I can speak to that too.

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<v Speaker 3>Is that I think it was a narcissist test. But

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<v Speaker 3>Tom Sandival went on Doctor Drew's. He went on a

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<v Speaker 3>podcast and doctor Drew has this test to look at narcissism.

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<v Speaker 3>And I went and I looked at it because part

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<v Speaker 3>of my training is in psychological assessment as well. Now

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<v Speaker 3>I don't provide that, but I you know, I took

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<v Speaker 3>courses on it, and I understand that in these assessments

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<v Speaker 3>there need to be some measures to prevent fakery essentially,

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<v Speaker 3>And so I took that narcissis test that doctor Drew

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<v Speaker 3>gave to Tom Sandival, and you can answer it the

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<v Speaker 3>way that you want to get the answer that you want.

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<v Speaker 3>So unless it's an actual psychological assessment tool, I don't

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<v Speaker 3>always put a lot of stock in it for that reason,

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<v Speaker 3>because Jackson is smart enough to know how to answer

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<v Speaker 3>those questions to get the desire result that he wants.

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<v Speaker 2>But the result that the got was he is a narcissist,

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<v Speaker 2>he is a sociopath.

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<v Speaker 1>That was the result. Okay, well then it was I

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<v Speaker 1>was saying.

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<v Speaker 2>As he passed, She's like, you have to answer everything.

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<v Speaker 2>She's like, and you understand, like we were together for years,

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<v Speaker 2>like you can't lie. He's like, okay, you know. One

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<v Speaker 2>of the questions was if this then that, would you

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<v Speaker 2>choose yourself or would you choose to help your an

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<v Speaker 2>old lady about to get hit by a bus. And

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<v Speaker 2>he'd be like, well, I mean she's already runt of

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<v Speaker 2>the bus, so what am I going to do. It

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<v Speaker 2>was just all of his answers were the wrong thing

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<v Speaker 2>to say, and she was like, oh my god.

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<v Speaker 1>And at the end she was like, well, okay, you.

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<v Speaker 2>Scored, you know, nineteen out of twenty. You know, yes,

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<v Speaker 2>you're a social path.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. He's like, okay, okay, so I'm cute. Who cares?

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<v Speaker 2>But with Jack's with his behavior, a lot of his

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<v Speaker 2>behavior I can relate to with my past with my husband.

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<v Speaker 2>A lot of his behaviors are just attic behavior in

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<v Speaker 2>that he says, yeah, I shouldn't have done it, but

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<v Speaker 2>everybody else would well, everybody else would have done the

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<v Speaker 2>same thing.

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<v Speaker 1>It's very much of.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, it was wrong, but what would you do if

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<v Speaker 2>that happened, or every everybody would do the same And

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<v Speaker 2>you're like, no, they wouldn't. And he can't ever just

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<v Speaker 2>say yes, that was wrong, yes that was wrong, but

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<v Speaker 2>you would do the same thing. He always is trying

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<v Speaker 2>to caveat you would do the same thing. Any guy

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<v Speaker 2>would do the same thing. And then I noticed this week,

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<v Speaker 2>I guess it was on the Valley that Danny was

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<v Speaker 2>doing the same thing about his drinking that my husband

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<v Speaker 2>used to do a lot of, like, well, everybody was drinking,

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<v Speaker 2>Why were you? Why are you saying I was drunk?

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<v Speaker 2>Everybody was drinking. So it's like if everybody's doing it,

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<v Speaker 2>then I'm not the problem. So with Danny, his behavior

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<v Speaker 2>presents to me as addict behavior, and the way he

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<v Speaker 2>speaks about it the same as Jack's the way Jack

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<v Speaker 2>speaks about like two, Okay, I had a cocaine problem,

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<v Speaker 2>but you did cocaine too. It's like, that's not the point.

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<v Speaker 3>That was So when I watched that scene, it was

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<v Speaker 3>so textbook addictive behavior, where it's like the addict. It's like,

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<v Speaker 3>if they're going to go down they're going to take

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<v Speaker 3>everyone around them with them, because I and I think truly,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, it's funny that you mentioned that Jack's failed

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<v Speaker 3>the test, and so it sounds like he was truthful,

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<v Speaker 3>because I do believe at the core that Jack's his

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<v Speaker 3>narcissistic traits and tendencies, you know, because I can't diagnose

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<v Speaker 3>it's not appropriate and it's also not ethical. I don't

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<v Speaker 3>know Jacks. I'm not a therapist, but I can look

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<v Speaker 3>at the behaviors and I can tell you that on

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<v Speaker 3>you know, clinically, I look at things on a continuum,

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<v Speaker 3>and so he is for sure on the higher end

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<v Speaker 3>of this continuum of these narcissistic traits and tendencies, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>bordering on I would say anti social, anti social traits

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<v Speaker 3>and tendencies, meaning you know, like when he stole the

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<v Speaker 3>sunglasses just for just for kicks, you know, he yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>his brain really, he does, really see to have the

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<v Speaker 3>one thing that all people in addiction have in common,

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<v Speaker 3>which is just like a thirst for chaos. It's you know,

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<v Speaker 3>it's not always even about the substance. It's about the

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<v Speaker 3>thirst for absolute chaos in relationships with your friend groups,

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<v Speaker 3>just creating you know, the ripple effect of his behaviors

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<v Speaker 3>on other people. I think he sort of gets a

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<v Speaker 3>kick out of that. And so for me, I'll tell

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<v Speaker 3>you something funny. I actually didn't watch VPR in the

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<v Speaker 3>beginning because I felt allergic to Jack's I was so like,

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<v Speaker 3>I felt I was so hot.

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<v Speaker 2>I was so hot for him, you know, because that

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<v Speaker 2>just shows you the kind of men I've chosen in

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<v Speaker 2>my life.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh my god, I was like, he.

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<v Speaker 2>Is so hot, he is so mean, he would be

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<v Speaker 2>so mean to me, and I would be the one

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<v Speaker 2>to change him.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh and listen, that's why Brittany stuck around and was right.

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<v Speaker 3>And that's that's the way people like this have significant

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<v Speaker 3>other women especially think I can change him. I'll make

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<v Speaker 3>him want to change and.

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<v Speaker 2>Then it would be one he picked up all the women.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm one he picked because I'm I was able to

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<v Speaker 2>change him. So I'm special, you know. And You're like,

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<v Speaker 2>he's been with hundreds and hundreds of women, but I'm

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<v Speaker 2>the one, you.

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<v Speaker 3>Know, right, right, And so I think, you know, at

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<v Speaker 3>a point, that's maybe how Brittany felt. But I just

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<v Speaker 3>think that Jack's particularly there's something a little bit sadistic

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<v Speaker 3>about him where it's like you know that saying misery

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<v Speaker 3>loves company, like he's not happy unless people around him

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<v Speaker 3>are miserable and in chaos as well. And so that's

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<v Speaker 3>something extra special about Jackson's personality that I don't necessarily

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<v Speaker 3>see in someone like Jesse. For example, Jesse and Jack's

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<v Speaker 3>are very similar, right, I very similar.

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<v Speaker 1>Jesse's just a little bit smarter.

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<v Speaker 3>And more charismatic.

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<v Speaker 2>I would I argue, I've been around Jack's twice, not

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<v Speaker 2>you know, just seeing him and had had work spoken twice,

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<v Speaker 2>and I would argue that he is very charismaic, but

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<v Speaker 2>I think it's simmering underneath, and you know him enough

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<v Speaker 2>to know that, you know, whereas Jesse is so cutting

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<v Speaker 2>with his words, and like when he said to Janet

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<v Speaker 2>on the valley, when he said this is not a

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<v Speaker 2>game you want to play, like that scared me a

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<v Speaker 2>little bit. I was like, oh, I'm a little scared him.

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<v Speaker 2>I could probably take him because they're probably bigger than him,

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<v Speaker 2>but I'm.

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<v Speaker 3>Like, that scared me a little bit to say that

390
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<v Speaker 3>what she yeah say bloomers, you know.

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<v Speaker 2>To say that to somebody, a girl in front of

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<v Speaker 2>their husband, like he doesn't care. You know, he said it, right,

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<v Speaker 2>to her in front of her husband. He didn't care

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<v Speaker 2>if he offended her her husband. Who's this friend? He said,

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<v Speaker 2>You're not gonna this is not a game you're gonna

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<v Speaker 2>be good at. You don't need to try to play

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<v Speaker 2>with me.

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<v Speaker 1>I was like, WHOA.

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<v Speaker 3>I think that Jack's cares less about people seeing behind

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<v Speaker 3>the mask, and Jesse's max mask is a little bit

401
00:21:06.920 --> 00:21:10.319
<v Speaker 3>more affixed, and he only lets it down in those

402
00:21:10.359 --> 00:21:12.920
<v Speaker 3>little moments and you have to be watching carefully. So

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<v Speaker 3>I agree with your assessment on that.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's very interesting. I think that's right. I think

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<v Speaker 2>Jax is just so like this has gotten me on

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<v Speaker 2>TV for fifteen years.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes is the why not? This made me fairs, so

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<v Speaker 1>people must like it.

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<v Speaker 2>Do you have what else are you discussing like on

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<v Speaker 2>your show and in general?

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<v Speaker 1>What are you talking?

412
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<v Speaker 2>Because we did, Karen, Ree're talkbout cover Diddy? So when

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00:21:34.880 --> 00:21:37.599
<v Speaker 2>you're talking about things, are you do you pick like

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<v Speaker 2>one specific subject or like, this is what's happening this

415
00:21:40.599 --> 00:21:42.559
<v Speaker 2>week on the Love Hotel, let's talk about Shannon?

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<v Speaker 3>You know, yeah, great question. So honestly, I have this

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<v Speaker 3>thing where I will only cover what I am authentically

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<v Speaker 3>drawn to as a human being. And I have the

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<v Speaker 3>privilege of doing that because you know this, I get

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<v Speaker 3>to do this for fun. This is you know, I'm

421
00:21:58.359 --> 00:22:00.680
<v Speaker 3>trying to make it a career, trying to you know,

422
00:22:00.759 --> 00:22:03.119
<v Speaker 3>do my best at this. But you know, I have

423
00:22:03.160 --> 00:22:06.839
<v Speaker 3>an amazing, wonderful, supportive husband, and so I can really

424
00:22:07.079 --> 00:22:10.079
<v Speaker 3>just kind of cherry pick and so I look at

425
00:22:10.119 --> 00:22:12.559
<v Speaker 3>what does my brain feel authentically drawn to. So what

426
00:22:12.599 --> 00:22:15.079
<v Speaker 3>it's been drawn to is Shannon on Love Hotel. I

427
00:22:15.279 --> 00:22:18.160
<v Speaker 3>swear to you I could write a dissertation on her

428
00:22:18.279 --> 00:22:21.519
<v Speaker 3>relational issues. I have so much to say about that.

429
00:22:21.839 --> 00:22:24.440
<v Speaker 3>So I've covered that. Of course, the valley is so

430
00:22:24.759 --> 00:22:27.920
<v Speaker 3>rich in terms of because I have a huge people

431
00:22:27.920 --> 00:22:32.079
<v Speaker 3>that follow me their you know, Thriver, survivors of domestic abuse,

432
00:22:33.039 --> 00:22:36.519
<v Speaker 3>sober community, because I talk a lot about you know, addiction,

433
00:22:37.480 --> 00:22:40.680
<v Speaker 3>you know, as a former drug and alcohol counselor, and

434
00:22:40.759 --> 00:22:44.359
<v Speaker 3>so I you know, the valley. I try. I'm trying

435
00:22:44.400 --> 00:22:47.599
<v Speaker 3>to make something good out of something really toxic by

436
00:22:47.839 --> 00:22:50.880
<v Speaker 3>you know, making it educational at least a little bit.

437
00:22:51.039 --> 00:22:54.400
<v Speaker 3>And then I was covering Atlanta, but you know what,

438
00:22:54.599 --> 00:22:56.640
<v Speaker 3>no one seems to care about it, and it really

439
00:22:57.359 --> 00:22:58.640
<v Speaker 3>you know, because it's so good.

440
00:22:59.839 --> 00:23:02.720
<v Speaker 1>I will say, let's talk about Atlanta really quick.

441
00:23:02.920 --> 00:23:05.519
<v Speaker 2>So this last week we had Shemia and Porscha sit

442
00:23:05.599 --> 00:23:08.599
<v Speaker 2>down as they've been friends for a very long time,

443
00:23:09.359 --> 00:23:11.640
<v Speaker 2>and it was very weird what was happening at that

444
00:23:11.759 --> 00:23:14.599
<v Speaker 2>table because so Shemia was trying to tell her as

445
00:23:14.640 --> 00:23:16.200
<v Speaker 2>a good friend of me, I'm trying to tell you,

446
00:23:16.240 --> 00:23:17.759
<v Speaker 2>and she got going, stop, why are you doing this?

447
00:23:17.960 --> 00:23:19.400
<v Speaker 1>I can't believe you're doing this for the show.

448
00:23:19.799 --> 00:23:22.319
<v Speaker 2>She was trying to call Shemiah out and say you

449
00:23:22.480 --> 00:23:25.720
<v Speaker 2>are overreacting or creating drama for the show, where Shemia

450
00:23:25.799 --> 00:23:28.839
<v Speaker 2>is like, what are you talking about? Like, I'm literally

451
00:23:28.880 --> 00:23:31.319
<v Speaker 2>trying to talk to you about something. Something happened when

452
00:23:31.319 --> 00:23:33.079
<v Speaker 2>Portia went to the bathroom and came back and she

453
00:23:33.160 --> 00:23:36.000
<v Speaker 2>sort of had reset and was like, we do need

454
00:23:36.039 --> 00:23:38.200
<v Speaker 2>to work this out. I found that whole thing so

455
00:23:38.400 --> 00:23:43.119
<v Speaker 2>interesting because it was like Portia wouldn't really let Shemia talk,

456
00:23:43.599 --> 00:23:45.720
<v Speaker 2>and then she got mad at her and started saying, you're.

457
00:23:45.559 --> 00:23:47.279
<v Speaker 1>Doing this for the show. I was like, where's the

458
00:23:47.319 --> 00:23:50.440
<v Speaker 1>evidence of that? Why are you saying that? I thought,

459
00:23:50.480 --> 00:23:51.960
<v Speaker 1>what did you think? I thought it was interesting.

460
00:23:52.480 --> 00:23:56.640
<v Speaker 3>I also was fascinated by the scene because so much

461
00:23:56.640 --> 00:24:01.559
<v Speaker 3>of communication is actually nonverbal, Like the stuff that can

462
00:24:01.680 --> 00:24:04.519
<v Speaker 3>really matter, a lot of it is nonverbal. And it

463
00:24:04.599 --> 00:24:06.680
<v Speaker 3>was like I felt like I was watching the US

464
00:24:06.720 --> 00:24:09.880
<v Speaker 3>Open like a tennis match, like boom boom boom. And

465
00:24:09.960 --> 00:24:12.720
<v Speaker 3>it was so fascinating as a therapist to watch, you know,

466
00:24:12.799 --> 00:24:15.519
<v Speaker 3>because what I have a history of, you know, when

467
00:24:15.519 --> 00:24:18.839
<v Speaker 3>you're in a situation and you're watching it escalate. I

468
00:24:18.880 --> 00:24:23.200
<v Speaker 3>saw each and every bit of how they both contributed

469
00:24:23.240 --> 00:24:27.160
<v Speaker 3>to that excalation. And so I think that, my honest,

470
00:24:27.480 --> 00:24:31.240
<v Speaker 3>if I have never loved a new housewife like I

471
00:24:31.279 --> 00:24:35.599
<v Speaker 3>love Shamiyah, I feel, where has this peach been all

472
00:24:35.680 --> 00:24:38.480
<v Speaker 3>of our real housewives of a Landa lives? She should

473
00:24:38.480 --> 00:24:40.680
<v Speaker 3>have been on a million years ago? Who dropped the

474
00:24:40.680 --> 00:24:47.400
<v Speaker 3>ball on that? And Porscha just has this history of,

475
00:24:48.119 --> 00:24:52.599
<v Speaker 3>let's face it, relational issues in her romantic and her

476
00:24:52.720 --> 00:24:58.160
<v Speaker 3>friendship relationships. And I believe Porscha is kind of a

477
00:24:58.240 --> 00:25:03.680
<v Speaker 3>perpetual victim in that she feels. I don't think at

478
00:25:03.680 --> 00:25:06.599
<v Speaker 3>that dinner she felt she had the bandwidth for Shamiah,

479
00:25:07.200 --> 00:25:11.319
<v Speaker 3>but sometimes life is hard and we may not have

480
00:25:11.440 --> 00:25:14.240
<v Speaker 3>the bandwidth. But if this is your sister that you've

481
00:25:14.240 --> 00:25:17.640
<v Speaker 3>been friends for decades, right, this is not some random

482
00:25:17.680 --> 00:25:21.079
<v Speaker 3>new housewife, like he gives a who this is your girl,

483
00:25:21.200 --> 00:25:25.119
<v Speaker 3>this is your sister. And so it was not surprising

484
00:25:25.160 --> 00:25:29.880
<v Speaker 3>to see how Porsha behaved, but it was understandable why

485
00:25:29.920 --> 00:25:32.799
<v Speaker 3>that made Shamia angry because Shemiah was on the right

486
00:25:32.799 --> 00:25:35.480
<v Speaker 3>side of history here, I believe, and I think Porsha

487
00:25:35.599 --> 00:25:38.400
<v Speaker 3>was just like, listen, I'm going through a real divorce.

488
00:25:38.519 --> 00:25:41.119
<v Speaker 3>I can't go through a friend divorce. But the problem

489
00:25:41.160 --> 00:25:45.200
<v Speaker 3>is she doesn't want to address any of the problems

490
00:25:45.640 --> 00:25:49.400
<v Speaker 3>that are creating these what I would call relationship ruptures.

491
00:25:49.839 --> 00:25:52.279
<v Speaker 3>So if you have a rupture and you don't deal

492
00:25:52.319 --> 00:25:53.960
<v Speaker 3>with it and then you move on, and then there's

493
00:25:54.000 --> 00:25:57.480
<v Speaker 3>another rupture, well soon the relationship becomes you know, you

494
00:25:57.519 --> 00:26:01.319
<v Speaker 3>can't fix it. It's inflexible. Yeah, and I think unfortunately

495
00:26:01.400 --> 00:26:04.240
<v Speaker 3>Portia has a history of doing that in relationships, hoping

496
00:26:04.279 --> 00:26:07.880
<v Speaker 3>issues will just fly away and miraculously resolve, and that's

497
00:26:07.920 --> 00:26:09.039
<v Speaker 3>just not how life goes.

498
00:26:09.400 --> 00:26:09.960
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

499
00:26:10.240 --> 00:26:14.839
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I'm really I've been watching Atlanta and maybe it's

500
00:26:14.839 --> 00:26:17.039
<v Speaker 2>because it's the only housewives on right now, like we're

501
00:26:17.039 --> 00:26:21.640
<v Speaker 2>getting Miami soon, but I've been really enjoying it. I've

502
00:26:21.680 --> 00:26:24.640
<v Speaker 2>loved the whole new stylized version of it. I'm generally

503
00:26:24.720 --> 00:26:28.079
<v Speaker 2>liking that. I'm really liking Angela Oakley because I felt

504
00:26:28.119 --> 00:26:30.640
<v Speaker 2>like she was being super honest about her relationship with

505
00:26:30.640 --> 00:26:31.119
<v Speaker 2>her husband.

506
00:26:31.160 --> 00:26:34.160
<v Speaker 1>She's like, oh, yeah, like we have separated because of

507
00:26:34.160 --> 00:26:34.640
<v Speaker 1>what happened.

508
00:26:34.680 --> 00:26:36.559
<v Speaker 2>I mean, so I like that when they don't try

509
00:26:36.599 --> 00:26:38.359
<v Speaker 2>to say oh, people just try to spread rumors, and

510
00:26:38.400 --> 00:26:39.960
<v Speaker 2>she's like, no, we went through some shit.

511
00:26:40.319 --> 00:26:40.880
<v Speaker 1>And I like that.

512
00:26:40.920 --> 00:26:43.319
<v Speaker 2>I feel like she's a grown up woman who has

513
00:26:43.319 --> 00:26:45.359
<v Speaker 2>been through things in her life and she can you know.

514
00:26:45.400 --> 00:26:47.680
<v Speaker 2>She's like, and then my daughter got married and didn't

515
00:26:47.720 --> 00:26:50.559
<v Speaker 2>tell me, and then my mom doesn't like my husband.

516
00:26:50.599 --> 00:26:53.200
<v Speaker 2>I mean, you know, so I think it's like real life,

517
00:26:53.240 --> 00:26:56.240
<v Speaker 2>and I really like her. Kelly I'm getting into because

518
00:26:56.279 --> 00:26:58.920
<v Speaker 2>she's just She's just she literally is like a like

519
00:26:58.920 --> 00:27:01.240
<v Speaker 2>a Betty Boot character, you know what I mean.

520
00:27:01.519 --> 00:27:03.240
<v Speaker 3>A literal ray of sunshine.

521
00:27:03.640 --> 00:27:06.599
<v Speaker 2>But I'm not interesting about her daughters that she has.

522
00:27:06.640 --> 00:27:08.759
<v Speaker 2>The she has the three or the four daughters, and

523
00:27:08.799 --> 00:27:10.880
<v Speaker 2>three of them have that riddle bone disease and they

524
00:27:11.519 --> 00:27:13.920
<v Speaker 2>be a CPS was time to take them away because

525
00:27:13.920 --> 00:27:15.279
<v Speaker 2>they thought she was beating her children.

526
00:27:16.200 --> 00:27:18.160
<v Speaker 1>You're like, whoa, we skated past that.

527
00:27:18.160 --> 00:27:21.079
<v Speaker 3>That's a huge story, right, and not her a lot,

528
00:27:21.160 --> 00:27:23.599
<v Speaker 3>but she has an ex husband who, by for all

529
00:27:23.599 --> 00:27:27.799
<v Speaker 3>intents and purposes, has been allegedly very abusive and talking

530
00:27:27.799 --> 00:27:31.319
<v Speaker 3>about scary right like threats. Yeah, and I kind of

531
00:27:31.400 --> 00:27:35.319
<v Speaker 3>believe that Kelly. I think she's a beautiful soul, but

532
00:27:35.440 --> 00:27:39.440
<v Speaker 3>I think her bubbly personality is built off of trying

533
00:27:39.480 --> 00:27:43.240
<v Speaker 3>to keep herself safe, to keep people around her so

534
00:27:43.279 --> 00:27:45.839
<v Speaker 3>that she's not alone. So that and I also think

535
00:27:45.880 --> 00:27:48.200
<v Speaker 3>some of it, like trauma survivors, a lot of times

536
00:27:48.240 --> 00:27:52.799
<v Speaker 3>we do this thing where will just not want to

537
00:27:52.839 --> 00:27:55.000
<v Speaker 3>deal with the emotions, so we'll kind of like have

538
00:27:55.079 --> 00:27:59.400
<v Speaker 3>a little bit of toxic positivity accidentally, right unintentionally, And

539
00:27:59.480 --> 00:28:02.920
<v Speaker 3>sometimes I get that a little bit with Kelly, Like

540
00:28:03.000 --> 00:28:05.319
<v Speaker 3>I want to see your sadness, like you're not a

541
00:28:05.400 --> 00:28:07.920
<v Speaker 3>way of sunshine every day and if you are, well,

542
00:28:07.920 --> 00:28:12.240
<v Speaker 3>that's you're not feeling something. So you know, I want

543
00:28:12.279 --> 00:28:14.039
<v Speaker 3>to I feel like I want to peel back the

544
00:28:14.119 --> 00:28:17.079
<v Speaker 3>layers of Kelly and get to her, but you know,

545
00:28:17.119 --> 00:28:19.079
<v Speaker 3>I think she needs to feel safe enough to do that.

546
00:28:20.039 --> 00:28:23.119
<v Speaker 2>So you just said toxic positivity, which reminded me of

547
00:28:23.160 --> 00:28:26.920
<v Speaker 2>the recap I just did with Kimberly that came out

548
00:28:26.960 --> 00:28:30.759
<v Speaker 2>on Wednesday about The Valley. She used the phrase toxic

549
00:28:30.839 --> 00:28:34.920
<v Speaker 2>positivity to describe NIA.

550
00:28:34.119 --> 00:28:36.279
<v Speaker 1>And what you're saying is to covering up trauma.

551
00:28:36.319 --> 00:28:38.400
<v Speaker 2>Obviously we didn't know this about Nia, but she said

552
00:28:38.400 --> 00:28:40.440
<v Speaker 2>it on this latest episode of The Valley of all

553
00:28:40.480 --> 00:28:43.920
<v Speaker 2>that she went through and she's she said, I'm intentional

554
00:28:44.200 --> 00:28:46.920
<v Speaker 2>in my positivity because of what I went through today.

555
00:28:46.960 --> 00:28:49.799
<v Speaker 2>I'm grateful that I have a home, but then I

556
00:28:49.839 --> 00:28:51.920
<v Speaker 2>was grateful that I had a car to live in.

557
00:28:52.200 --> 00:28:54.559
<v Speaker 2>So she's been through so much that she she says,

558
00:28:54.599 --> 00:28:56.680
<v Speaker 2>I'm intentional with my positivity and maybe I could be

559
00:28:56.720 --> 00:28:59.039
<v Speaker 2>a light and help other people. But like you're saying,

560
00:28:59.480 --> 00:29:02.200
<v Speaker 2>sometimes when you're like that, all your friends around you

561
00:29:02.240 --> 00:29:04.160
<v Speaker 2>will get mad and be like, but you're not being real.

562
00:29:04.640 --> 00:29:06.480
<v Speaker 2>You're not being real, and we don't like it. And

563
00:29:06.599 --> 00:29:08.480
<v Speaker 2>especially for on a show where we're all getting paid

564
00:29:08.519 --> 00:29:10.880
<v Speaker 2>the same amount to show our lives and you're not.

565
00:29:11.079 --> 00:29:13.039
<v Speaker 2>And you find that you see that a lot and

566
00:29:13.119 --> 00:29:15.480
<v Speaker 2>housewives of some of these shows, or what really they're

567
00:29:15.480 --> 00:29:17.440
<v Speaker 2>mad at the person about is mad about is because

568
00:29:17.440 --> 00:29:18.880
<v Speaker 2>they came late to a party.

569
00:29:18.960 --> 00:29:20.359
<v Speaker 1>When it's like, this is a cast call. We have

570
00:29:20.400 --> 00:29:20.759
<v Speaker 1>to be there.

571
00:29:20.839 --> 00:29:23.039
<v Speaker 2>You didn't have to come because you did something else

572
00:29:23.039 --> 00:29:25.400
<v Speaker 2>and we all had to go. So sometimes they're mad

573
00:29:25.440 --> 00:29:27.480
<v Speaker 2>about that kind of stuff, or like, you got invited

574
00:29:27.519 --> 00:29:30.640
<v Speaker 2>to be a speaker as something and you didn't add me,

575
00:29:30.759 --> 00:29:32.480
<v Speaker 2>so I didn't get that money to be a speaker

576
00:29:32.519 --> 00:29:34.599
<v Speaker 2>at something. So there's all these little things. So I

577
00:29:34.640 --> 00:29:37.680
<v Speaker 2>think it's very interesting what you said Nia and her

578
00:29:37.720 --> 00:29:40.440
<v Speaker 2>toxic positivity. That's a little bit of what they're mad about.

579
00:29:40.480 --> 00:29:42.319
<v Speaker 2>They're like, well, that's great that you're so happy and

580
00:29:42.359 --> 00:29:45.680
<v Speaker 2>you and your husband are true partners and handle everything

581
00:29:45.680 --> 00:29:48.000
<v Speaker 2>together with therapy and all that, but we are shooting

582
00:29:48.079 --> 00:29:50.759
<v Speaker 2>a reality show where we have to show all our shit,

583
00:29:51.039 --> 00:29:51.240
<v Speaker 2>you know.

584
00:29:52.359 --> 00:29:56.160
<v Speaker 3>And it's so funny because where I talked about toxic positivity,

585
00:29:56.200 --> 00:30:00.119
<v Speaker 3>that initially came from that scene with Nia, and as

586
00:30:00.119 --> 00:30:02.319
<v Speaker 3>a therapist, I swear to you it was like a

587
00:30:02.400 --> 00:30:04.359
<v Speaker 3>light bulb went off in my head. And so I

588
00:30:04.440 --> 00:30:08.079
<v Speaker 3>just want to explain quickly. My assessment was like, so

589
00:30:08.160 --> 00:30:11.680
<v Speaker 3>she growing up, had her and her mom were chronically

590
00:30:11.759 --> 00:30:15.759
<v Speaker 3>unhoused for people listening that maybe don't know, and when

591
00:30:16.079 --> 00:30:18.960
<v Speaker 3>you're growing up as a child and you have what's

592
00:30:18.960 --> 00:30:23.799
<v Speaker 3>called scarcity trauma, so as humans, the only thing we

593
00:30:24.000 --> 00:30:27.759
<v Speaker 3>really absolutely have to have her needs met is like shelter, food,

594
00:30:27.880 --> 00:30:31.880
<v Speaker 3>and safety. And when those needs aren't met as children,

595
00:30:32.039 --> 00:30:37.559
<v Speaker 3>there's a scarcity trauma that happens and really can rewire

596
00:30:37.680 --> 00:30:41.880
<v Speaker 3>children's brains. And you know, the thing that became apparent

597
00:30:41.880 --> 00:30:44.440
<v Speaker 3>to me is that I think Nia in this scenario,

598
00:30:44.640 --> 00:30:48.519
<v Speaker 3>it's it's they're arguing about semantics. She's being as open

599
00:30:48.559 --> 00:30:51.359
<v Speaker 3>as she knows how to because I believe when she

600
00:30:51.559 --> 00:30:54.839
<v Speaker 3>was a child, you have to develop this sense of

601
00:30:54.880 --> 00:30:58.480
<v Speaker 3>secrecy when you know if someone at school finds out,

602
00:30:58.519 --> 00:31:00.920
<v Speaker 3>you're going to get separated from your mind, and children

603
00:31:00.920 --> 00:31:03.559
<v Speaker 3>and youth are going to get involved. So I believe

604
00:31:03.599 --> 00:31:07.200
<v Speaker 3>that Nia has the suit of armor to self protect

605
00:31:07.599 --> 00:31:10.319
<v Speaker 3>and I believe that she's doing the same thing because

606
00:31:10.359 --> 00:31:12.480
<v Speaker 3>the only thing that matters to her is Danny and

607
00:31:12.519 --> 00:31:15.839
<v Speaker 3>those children. And so I believe I'm viewing it more

608
00:31:15.920 --> 00:31:20.519
<v Speaker 3>as much more self protective due to that child scarcity trauma.

609
00:31:21.079 --> 00:31:24.200
<v Speaker 3>And this is as open as she knows how to be,

610
00:31:24.200 --> 00:31:28.519
<v Speaker 3>because I think she worries in real time if people

611
00:31:28.559 --> 00:31:30.799
<v Speaker 3>think that Danny has an addiction and what is going

612
00:31:30.839 --> 00:31:33.720
<v Speaker 3>to happen to her current family unit are children and

613
00:31:33.799 --> 00:31:36.880
<v Speaker 3>youth going to get involved there is she at risk

614
00:31:36.920 --> 00:31:42.440
<v Speaker 3>of losing her home, her car, her job, and for

615
00:31:42.599 --> 00:31:49.279
<v Speaker 3>someone in that position, that fear would override any requirements

616
00:31:49.319 --> 00:31:51.799
<v Speaker 3>of being on a reality TV show. She's doing the

617
00:31:51.799 --> 00:31:53.240
<v Speaker 3>best she can, I believe.

618
00:31:53.759 --> 00:31:56.839
<v Speaker 2>I thought it was interesting when she was arguing with

619
00:31:56.920 --> 00:31:59.519
<v Speaker 2>you know, Britney Jazzin and Britney's room and Danny King

620
00:31:59.599 --> 00:32:02.079
<v Speaker 2>kind of stucker mad at me, like what's going on?

621
00:32:02.279 --> 00:32:04.000
<v Speaker 2>And then they went back in the bedroom and she

622
00:32:04.200 --> 00:32:07.519
<v Speaker 2>was saying, just like so many things I've heard myself say,

623
00:32:07.599 --> 00:32:11.039
<v Speaker 2>is like, yeah, everybody was drinking, and she was sort

624
00:32:11.039 --> 00:32:14.640
<v Speaker 2>of saying the words that he was saying too. And

625
00:32:14.960 --> 00:32:16.880
<v Speaker 2>then like when she came home from the dinner and

626
00:32:16.920 --> 00:32:18.160
<v Speaker 2>she sat down and she goes, well, you know, you

627
00:32:18.160 --> 00:32:20.759
<v Speaker 2>told me you drank tequila, but I didn't know it

628
00:32:20.799 --> 00:32:22.759
<v Speaker 2>was in the closet, and he said that's where the

629
00:32:22.799 --> 00:32:25.279
<v Speaker 2>bottles were. She goes, Okay, that makes sense. It seems

630
00:32:25.319 --> 00:32:28.400
<v Speaker 2>like that is a show for people to see that

631
00:32:28.599 --> 00:32:31.319
<v Speaker 2>she knows and she understands. But in my mind, I'm

632
00:32:31.359 --> 00:32:34.160
<v Speaker 2>like they're trying to protect this image because they're very

633
00:32:34.160 --> 00:32:39.599
<v Speaker 2>involved with their church number one, and she absolutely doesn't

634
00:32:39.680 --> 00:32:41.440
<v Speaker 2>want the word to get out that he has some

635
00:32:41.480 --> 00:32:45.039
<v Speaker 2>sort of substance issue that'll affect his career as a

636
00:32:45.119 --> 00:32:48.279
<v Speaker 2>voiceover artist, which then affects her and the kids.

637
00:32:48.720 --> 00:32:52.759
<v Speaker 3>That's right, and creates that again, that trigger for scarcity trauma,

638
00:32:52.960 --> 00:32:55.839
<v Speaker 3>where if he loses his job, what happens to this house,

639
00:32:55.920 --> 00:32:58.119
<v Speaker 3>what happens to our kids? I've lived in my car.

640
00:32:58.240 --> 00:33:01.720
<v Speaker 3>I can't do that, you know. She She's just trying

641
00:33:01.759 --> 00:33:03.359
<v Speaker 3>to do the best she can for her children. But

642
00:33:03.400 --> 00:33:05.680
<v Speaker 3>it's so interesting you bring up that scene because what

643
00:33:05.720 --> 00:33:09.519
<v Speaker 3>I wrote down is I can tell that she's making

644
00:33:09.599 --> 00:33:15.000
<v Speaker 3>excuses to playcate Danny's anger in the moment, it was

645
00:33:15.240 --> 00:33:19.119
<v Speaker 3>super obvious to me, and she's done this millions of

646
00:33:19.240 --> 00:33:23.640
<v Speaker 3>times before. She you know, cameras were on and so

647
00:33:24.279 --> 00:33:26.880
<v Speaker 3>she felt safe enough to say something. But Danny has

648
00:33:26.920 --> 00:33:31.480
<v Speaker 3>this real I call it a simmering rage which she

649
00:33:31.759 --> 00:33:35.039
<v Speaker 3>can see. Like there was one scene where Danny smirked

650
00:33:35.319 --> 00:33:37.920
<v Speaker 3>and she got so triggered and defensive and she said,

651
00:33:37.960 --> 00:33:41.559
<v Speaker 3>don't do that smirk. I know what that's about. And

652
00:33:41.640 --> 00:33:43.079
<v Speaker 3>I forget what point it was and.

653
00:33:43.200 --> 00:33:47.880
<v Speaker 1>Should she said don't do that nervous laughter? Yes, what?

654
00:33:48.079 --> 00:33:49.440
<v Speaker 1>And she goes quit doing the nervous.

655
00:33:49.640 --> 00:33:52.160
<v Speaker 2>I think she's trying to say, quit nervous, laughing about

656
00:33:52.200 --> 00:33:54.799
<v Speaker 2>me talking about you chunking tequila in a closet. She goes,

657
00:33:54.880 --> 00:33:58.839
<v Speaker 2>it does look bad. It does, and he's like, right, okay,

658
00:33:58.880 --> 00:34:00.319
<v Speaker 2>all right, you know, yeah.

659
00:34:00.160 --> 00:34:03.640
<v Speaker 3>But I'm saying that I can see that that's the

660
00:34:03.680 --> 00:34:06.720
<v Speaker 3>mark of a woman who's had those conversations so many

661
00:34:06.720 --> 00:34:10.840
<v Speaker 3>times that knows the slight change in his smile and

662
00:34:10.960 --> 00:34:14.960
<v Speaker 3>tone of voice. And so when you're dealing with a

663
00:34:15.079 --> 00:34:19.360
<v Speaker 3>partner who may be overutilizing substances. Because I can't judge

664
00:34:19.360 --> 00:34:21.280
<v Speaker 3>what's going on with Danny, I can only look at

665
00:34:21.320 --> 00:34:26.199
<v Speaker 3>what I see. It's what happens when they're confronted about

666
00:34:26.199 --> 00:34:28.840
<v Speaker 3>the ripple effects of their behavior. And I think that

667
00:34:28.920 --> 00:34:31.280
<v Speaker 3>you know, Danny's saying, well, he's had to go to

668
00:34:31.400 --> 00:34:35.920
<v Speaker 3>therapy before because of his behaviors when he's blacked out

669
00:34:35.920 --> 00:34:40.719
<v Speaker 3>on alcohol, but he's shocked and surprised that it's still

670
00:34:40.800 --> 00:34:43.400
<v Speaker 3>causing an issue, and you know, so it's a lot

671
00:34:43.440 --> 00:34:46.559
<v Speaker 3>of rich information, and it just tells me that there's

672
00:34:46.760 --> 00:34:51.400
<v Speaker 3>so much more under the surface that they're just desperately

673
00:34:51.480 --> 00:34:55.199
<v Speaker 3>trying to hide. And it's not disingenuous I think it's

674
00:34:55.280 --> 00:34:57.960
<v Speaker 3>just I think Nia's trying to preserve her safety in

675
00:34:58.000 --> 00:34:58.880
<v Speaker 3>her family unit.

676
00:34:59.760 --> 00:35:00.880
<v Speaker 1>Real really interesting.

677
00:35:01.000 --> 00:35:03.440
<v Speaker 2>It's really interesting to think of it that way, because

678
00:35:03.519 --> 00:35:07.599
<v Speaker 2>I see it as her trying to say face because

679
00:35:08.079 --> 00:35:09.760
<v Speaker 2>we don't want him to lose his job because he's

680
00:35:09.800 --> 00:35:13.599
<v Speaker 2>the main breadwinner. I find it fascinating, all right. So

681
00:35:13.639 --> 00:35:18.119
<v Speaker 2>we also touched on Shannon on Love Hotel Now. When

682
00:35:18.159 --> 00:35:21.239
<v Speaker 2>Shannon did sort of explain that she was coming up

683
00:35:21.280 --> 00:35:24.880
<v Speaker 2>on the one year of her duy, Well, anybody that's

684
00:35:24.880 --> 00:35:29.440
<v Speaker 2>been in any kind of traumatic situation knows that somehow biologically,

685
00:35:29.559 --> 00:35:33.440
<v Speaker 2>your brain or your body or something knows it's an anniversary.

686
00:35:33.559 --> 00:35:33.800
<v Speaker 1>You know.

687
00:35:34.159 --> 00:35:36.559
<v Speaker 2>My husband had a sister that passed away as a child,

688
00:35:37.079 --> 00:35:40.360
<v Speaker 2>and when they were children, and in December he would

689
00:35:40.400 --> 00:35:43.000
<v Speaker 2>always get he said, he goes. I can't explain it.

690
00:35:43.000 --> 00:35:44.880
<v Speaker 2>I could feel it because when it happened, it was

691
00:35:44.880 --> 00:35:47.760
<v Speaker 2>in December, right, even though it's fifty years ago at

692
00:35:47.760 --> 00:35:52.800
<v Speaker 2>this point. But it's interesting that watching that, I was like, Okay,

693
00:35:52.840 --> 00:35:55.519
<v Speaker 2>this might be because she says, you know, tomorrow is

694
00:35:55.559 --> 00:35:58.519
<v Speaker 2>the when you're anniversary, and then she shows all these

695
00:35:58.559 --> 00:36:01.079
<v Speaker 2>men who she's technically supposed to be wanting to be

696
00:36:01.119 --> 00:36:03.039
<v Speaker 2>attractive to let me show you what what a hot

697
00:36:03.119 --> 00:36:04.000
<v Speaker 2>fucking mess I am.

698
00:36:04.360 --> 00:36:06.920
<v Speaker 4>Let me show always throw my bloody face. So I

699
00:36:07.000 --> 00:36:13.760
<v Speaker 4>was like, girls like no, no. But it's interesting because

700
00:36:13.800 --> 00:36:15.360
<v Speaker 4>people are like, what is up with her?

701
00:36:15.400 --> 00:36:19.360
<v Speaker 2>I go, I just see her life literally did not

702
00:36:19.559 --> 00:36:22.079
<v Speaker 2>turn out like she planned it. And she planned to

703
00:36:22.119 --> 00:36:24.559
<v Speaker 2>be married to David Bbora and David Badoor and live

704
00:36:24.599 --> 00:36:27.239
<v Speaker 2>in the twenty million dollar mansion with the crystals embedded

705
00:36:27.239 --> 00:36:29.360
<v Speaker 2>in the wall and the indoor basketball court.

706
00:36:29.440 --> 00:36:32.639
<v Speaker 1>That's what she planned. So that didn't happen.

707
00:36:32.719 --> 00:36:35.840
<v Speaker 2>And then she planned John Danson, you know, this amazing

708
00:36:35.960 --> 00:36:39.400
<v Speaker 2>boyfriend whatever, and that didn't happen. So you know what

709
00:36:39.440 --> 00:36:43.039
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I don't think she's just struggling to.

710
00:36:42.960 --> 00:36:43.639
<v Speaker 1>Get above water.

711
00:36:43.840 --> 00:36:47.239
<v Speaker 3>You know, I absolutely agree, And I said on my

712
00:36:47.280 --> 00:36:50.719
<v Speaker 3>podcast pretty much the one a similar piece to that,

713
00:36:50.800 --> 00:36:54.639
<v Speaker 3>which is that I think that Shannon is grief stricken

714
00:36:55.320 --> 00:36:58.480
<v Speaker 3>because she is at a she is at an age

715
00:36:58.480 --> 00:37:00.840
<v Speaker 3>in her life where, like you said, the picture of

716
00:37:00.880 --> 00:37:03.000
<v Speaker 3>what she had for herself in her mind, it is

717
00:37:03.119 --> 00:37:06.360
<v Speaker 3>totally different. She is, you know, recovering from a duy

718
00:37:06.599 --> 00:37:10.480
<v Speaker 3>because you know, I mean in the sober community, you know,

719
00:37:10.679 --> 00:37:13.199
<v Speaker 3>post acute withdrawals, you know, and I don't know if

720
00:37:13.199 --> 00:37:16.920
<v Speaker 3>she stopped drinking, but post acute withdrawal syndrome last for

721
00:37:17.119 --> 00:37:17.840
<v Speaker 3>over a year.

722
00:37:17.920 --> 00:37:20.920
<v Speaker 2>After people at please she's drinking on this show, she

723
00:37:20.960 --> 00:37:22.519
<v Speaker 2>did not stop drinking, you know.

724
00:37:22.760 --> 00:37:26.480
<v Speaker 3>Right, So, but my point is is that when you

725
00:37:26.519 --> 00:37:31.639
<v Speaker 3>know she's not Shannon does not love to feel a feeling.

726
00:37:31.719 --> 00:37:35.760
<v Speaker 3>She does not love to allow herself to feel an emotion,

727
00:37:35.840 --> 00:37:39.000
<v Speaker 3>and so I think she's profoundly unhappy. And what she

728
00:37:39.119 --> 00:37:43.599
<v Speaker 3>does is she projects that onto all the males who

729
00:37:43.719 --> 00:37:47.360
<v Speaker 3>she dates. Because the one thing that became super clear

730
00:37:47.400 --> 00:37:49.480
<v Speaker 3>to me with this whole Shannon stuff, I've talked about

731
00:37:49.480 --> 00:37:53.400
<v Speaker 3>it every week is that she is recreating all of

732
00:37:53.400 --> 00:37:56.840
<v Speaker 3>her relation relational issues with men that she doesn't know.

733
00:37:57.159 --> 00:37:59.360
<v Speaker 3>So what does that tell me? That tells me that

734
00:37:59.400 --> 00:38:03.119
<v Speaker 3>Shannon is is a huge part of the issue, and

735
00:38:03.159 --> 00:38:07.840
<v Speaker 3>that she's recreating this chaos here we see again chaos

736
00:38:07.920 --> 00:38:12.639
<v Speaker 3>right with people overutilizing alcohol. She uses this chaos I

737
00:38:12.960 --> 00:38:17.400
<v Speaker 3>feel to be able to express these painful emotions, like

738
00:38:17.440 --> 00:38:20.199
<v Speaker 3>when she and Earle fought, I don't know how much

739
00:38:20.199 --> 00:38:22.559
<v Speaker 3>it was about Earl and how much of it was

740
00:38:22.599 --> 00:38:25.000
<v Speaker 3>about I'm on the show. I feel like a fish

741
00:38:25.000 --> 00:38:28.320
<v Speaker 3>out of water. Nobody but Earle likes me. These three

742
00:38:28.360 --> 00:38:33.400
<v Speaker 3>women are swimming in d and I'm just like, no

743
00:38:33.480 --> 00:38:36.480
<v Speaker 3>one likes me. And I think also that's why she

744
00:38:36.639 --> 00:38:39.519
<v Speaker 3>was with David and with John Jansen, because it's like

745
00:38:39.559 --> 00:38:42.760
<v Speaker 3>if anyone likes her, even if she's not happy or

746
00:38:42.840 --> 00:38:45.480
<v Speaker 3>doesn't like them, she settles. And we've seen her do

747
00:38:45.599 --> 00:38:48.239
<v Speaker 3>it time and time and time again on Love Hotel,

748
00:38:49.039 --> 00:38:51.800
<v Speaker 3>and so you know, it just really did give me

749
00:38:51.840 --> 00:38:55.000
<v Speaker 3>a lot of insight into I just think she has

750
00:38:55.000 --> 00:38:57.320
<v Speaker 3>a lot of big emotions, does not know how to

751
00:38:57.360 --> 00:39:01.599
<v Speaker 3>process those, uses these conflicts to express them. But when

752
00:39:01.599 --> 00:39:05.039
<v Speaker 3>you're not being like when you have a feeling about

753
00:39:05.639 --> 00:39:09.719
<v Speaker 3>situation A and you're making it about situation B, all

754
00:39:09.760 --> 00:39:13.000
<v Speaker 3>those feelings about situation A really gets stuck and then

755
00:39:13.039 --> 00:39:16.760
<v Speaker 3>you stuff them and then it gets all muddy because

756
00:39:16.760 --> 00:39:19.440
<v Speaker 3>feelings are on top of feelings, if that makes sense.

757
00:39:19.880 --> 00:39:23.239
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, the thing with Earl was so interesting because she

758
00:39:23.239 --> 00:39:26.599
<v Speaker 2>she did what she thinks is cute or guys like

759
00:39:26.679 --> 00:39:27.639
<v Speaker 2>or she's like, what.

760
00:39:28.039 --> 00:39:30.880
<v Speaker 1>Huh is she? That's always kind of been a cutesy

761
00:39:30.960 --> 00:39:31.800
<v Speaker 1>thing that she does.

762
00:39:32.360 --> 00:39:35.280
<v Speaker 2>And then he was like, he doesn't know her from TV,

763
00:39:35.760 --> 00:39:37.920
<v Speaker 2>so he didn't think he doesn't know that sort of

764
00:39:37.960 --> 00:39:40.320
<v Speaker 2>her stick. So he goes, why do you always look

765
00:39:40.360 --> 00:39:42.320
<v Speaker 2>at me like you want to slap me? Because when

766
00:39:42.360 --> 00:39:47.039
<v Speaker 2>she's doing that, he feels judged by her right, And

767
00:39:47.440 --> 00:39:49.639
<v Speaker 2>it's interesting, I haven't even thought about it that way

768
00:39:49.679 --> 00:39:51.960
<v Speaker 2>of her feeling like, oh, all these like sexy ladies

769
00:39:51.960 --> 00:39:54.360
<v Speaker 2>here and people want them, but they don't want me.

770
00:39:54.800 --> 00:39:56.519
<v Speaker 2>I would feel that way if I was in a

771
00:39:56.519 --> 00:39:59.039
<v Speaker 2>show with those women, I would be like, Okay, these

772
00:39:59.079 --> 00:40:02.239
<v Speaker 2>are all like beautiful, sexy women. And Shannon is a

773
00:40:02.239 --> 00:40:05.960
<v Speaker 2>beautiful woman in her own way, but she's very sort

774
00:40:06.000 --> 00:40:10.280
<v Speaker 2>of a little more conservative. And by the way, there's

775
00:40:10.440 --> 00:40:14.159
<v Speaker 2>plenty of guys out there that like that too, the

776
00:40:14.199 --> 00:40:16.199
<v Speaker 2>same amount of guys that like like Lui Ane being

777
00:40:16.199 --> 00:40:20.320
<v Speaker 2>the opposite, you know, but she just doesn't see it.

778
00:40:20.360 --> 00:40:24.480
<v Speaker 2>She doesn't see that she's got this to offer, you know, right,

779
00:40:24.719 --> 00:40:26.519
<v Speaker 2>I like, why, you know, why don't you see?

780
00:40:26.599 --> 00:40:30.280
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it's sad, and I agree Shannon. I don't believe

781
00:40:30.320 --> 00:40:32.800
<v Speaker 3>she has any self worth. I don't believe she has

782
00:40:32.920 --> 00:40:36.000
<v Speaker 3>any self esteem. I actually believe that Shannon is one

783
00:40:36.079 --> 00:40:39.159
<v Speaker 3>of those women who will, you know, she'll be sad

784
00:40:39.199 --> 00:40:42.960
<v Speaker 3>about feeling bad and then you know, she Giselle was like, listen,

785
00:40:43.000 --> 00:40:46.159
<v Speaker 3>you're too fabulous for this, and then she'll almost parrot it,

786
00:40:46.239 --> 00:40:48.079
<v Speaker 3>you know, like oh, yeah, I'm too fabulous, but she

787
00:40:48.079 --> 00:40:50.960
<v Speaker 3>doesn't really believe that yeah, And so it's like, well,

788
00:40:51.039 --> 00:40:53.840
<v Speaker 3>you can't talk yourself into feeling fabulous. If that worked,

789
00:40:53.840 --> 00:40:59.760
<v Speaker 3>i'd be out of a job. So I think that Shannon, really,

790
00:41:00.840 --> 00:41:04.000
<v Speaker 3>if I'm being honest, people who overutilize alcohol to the

791
00:41:04.000 --> 00:41:06.920
<v Speaker 3>point where it's created some consequences, right like if UI

792
00:41:07.039 --> 00:41:11.159
<v Speaker 3>or something like that. Alcohol is a depressant, and it

793
00:41:11.519 --> 00:41:17.440
<v Speaker 3>literally makes people feel depressed, It makes them emotionally volatile,

794
00:41:17.639 --> 00:41:22.159
<v Speaker 3>it can make them you know it what you experienced

795
00:41:22.199 --> 00:41:24.239
<v Speaker 3>with your husband. I'm sure that you kind of know

796
00:41:24.320 --> 00:41:27.199
<v Speaker 3>what I mean here. But there's just like a thunk.

797
00:41:27.360 --> 00:41:29.760
<v Speaker 3>People who use a lot of alcohol are in a

798
00:41:29.800 --> 00:41:33.199
<v Speaker 3>lot because it's just so toxic and unhealthy for us.

799
00:41:34.559 --> 00:41:38.679
<v Speaker 3>And so I think that she doesn't give herself the

800
00:41:38.800 --> 00:41:41.679
<v Speaker 3>chance to have clarity, Like if she had the DUI

801
00:41:42.159 --> 00:41:45.599
<v Speaker 3>and then use the opportunity to really put the alcohol

802
00:41:45.679 --> 00:41:49.159
<v Speaker 3>down and just assess temporarily, I think that she would

803
00:41:49.159 --> 00:41:51.960
<v Speaker 3>be in a much better position. Number one and number two,

804
00:41:52.159 --> 00:41:53.800
<v Speaker 3>I'm going to go out on the limb and say,

805
00:41:53.880 --> 00:41:56.760
<v Speaker 3>I actually think Love Hotel was a bad idea for

806
00:41:56.840 --> 00:42:00.679
<v Speaker 3>Shannon personally. Maybe professionally was a great idea, but I

807
00:42:00.719 --> 00:42:05.639
<v Speaker 3>think after John Jansen, she's just too triggered. She's triggered

808
00:42:05.880 --> 00:42:09.440
<v Speaker 3>by all of it, by you know, not feeling wanted,

809
00:42:09.599 --> 00:42:12.760
<v Speaker 3>not feeling like she can catch up with I mean,

810
00:42:13.199 --> 00:42:14.800
<v Speaker 3>but like you said, I would feel the same way.

811
00:42:14.840 --> 00:42:18.360
<v Speaker 3>I'm like a grandma compared to lou Ayne, and she's

812
00:42:18.400 --> 00:42:22.840
<v Speaker 3>so much older than me. I'm like, that is so rude,

813
00:42:22.840 --> 00:42:25.039
<v Speaker 3>So I can understand how it feels.

814
00:42:25.360 --> 00:42:26.920
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I think I think you're right.

815
00:42:26.960 --> 00:42:28.840
<v Speaker 2>I think it was a bad choice for her, especially

816
00:42:28.880 --> 00:42:31.559
<v Speaker 2>if they're filming right at a pivotal time where it's

817
00:42:31.599 --> 00:42:34.000
<v Speaker 2>one year since her DUI, which is going to bring

818
00:42:34.079 --> 00:42:35.159
<v Speaker 2>up all this shit for her.

819
00:42:35.800 --> 00:42:38.360
<v Speaker 1>And I did hear Ashley.

820
00:42:38.039 --> 00:42:40.159
<v Speaker 2>On Watch What Happens Live the other night made a

821
00:42:40.239 --> 00:42:43.280
<v Speaker 2>really good analogy about the four of them being the

822
00:42:43.320 --> 00:42:47.199
<v Speaker 2>sex in the city, and lou Ayne is obviously Samantha, right,

823
00:42:48.039 --> 00:42:53.039
<v Speaker 2>and Shannon is obviously Charlotte right, and Gizelle is obviously Miranda,

824
00:42:53.760 --> 00:42:55.719
<v Speaker 2>and then Ashley is like, and I'm Carrie, you know

825
00:42:56.039 --> 00:43:00.599
<v Speaker 2>she But I was like, that is so good that

826
00:43:00.760 --> 00:43:03.320
<v Speaker 2>is so good. But I think that Shannon probably is

827
00:43:03.360 --> 00:43:05.159
<v Speaker 2>like they're like they're gonna throw her a bone and

828
00:43:05.159 --> 00:43:06.679
<v Speaker 2>film something with her and all that it.

829
00:43:06.760 --> 00:43:09.559
<v Speaker 1>I'm like, it wasn't the right time for her. Now,

830
00:43:09.599 --> 00:43:11.559
<v Speaker 1>I don't know. I haven't you know, watched Ahead.

831
00:43:11.719 --> 00:43:13.519
<v Speaker 2>You know, I don't get screeners, so I just like

832
00:43:13.559 --> 00:43:15.519
<v Speaker 2>watch it when it comes on Monday like everybody else.

833
00:43:15.639 --> 00:43:18.360
<v Speaker 3>Or baby, I'm not that important. No one sends me

834
00:43:18.440 --> 00:43:19.239
<v Speaker 3>a screener, no one.

835
00:43:19.239 --> 00:43:21.639
<v Speaker 2>No, no, I asked, and I get told no, I

836
00:43:21.679 --> 00:43:24.599
<v Speaker 2>always ask. They did send me Salt Lake City screeners.

837
00:43:24.639 --> 00:43:26.960
<v Speaker 2>So I'm hoping though, So I don't know how I

838
00:43:27.000 --> 00:43:29.400
<v Speaker 2>got in with the Salt Lake City person that likes me.

839
00:43:29.639 --> 00:43:31.400
<v Speaker 2>But each show is different and you have to ask

840
00:43:31.440 --> 00:43:34.079
<v Speaker 2>for each show, and each person can tell, you know,

841
00:43:34.199 --> 00:43:36.559
<v Speaker 2>like John Hill told me, and John Hill works on

842
00:43:36.639 --> 00:43:39.239
<v Speaker 2>Radio Andy, that for every show that comes out, he

843
00:43:39.320 --> 00:43:42.000
<v Speaker 2>has to ask every single time, every single season, for

844
00:43:42.079 --> 00:43:45.000
<v Speaker 2>every single show. John Hill, yeah, he said he has

845
00:43:45.039 --> 00:43:47.880
<v Speaker 2>to like call the blow Deck person and say, I

846
00:43:47.880 --> 00:43:49.679
<v Speaker 2>need to get Blowdeck screeners, and I.

847
00:43:49.639 --> 00:43:52.119
<v Speaker 1>Need to get Below Deck Australia screeners.

848
00:43:52.199 --> 00:43:54.760
<v Speaker 2>I need to get Oh, Miami's coming out, don't forget

849
00:43:54.760 --> 00:43:56.679
<v Speaker 2>to send me screeners is every time every season he

850
00:43:56.719 --> 00:43:57.920
<v Speaker 2>asks us every time.

851
00:43:58.079 --> 00:44:01.679
<v Speaker 3>Well that feels less bad because chut to me, you

852
00:44:01.719 --> 00:44:04.239
<v Speaker 3>and John Hill are legends. So I'm like, well, if

853
00:44:04.280 --> 00:44:05.119
<v Speaker 3>y'all can't get.

854
00:44:05.000 --> 00:44:08.360
<v Speaker 2>Screeners, no, no, no, no. He gets all the screeners,

855
00:44:08.360 --> 00:44:10.639
<v Speaker 2>but I don't. But they did give them to me

856
00:44:10.679 --> 00:44:12.840
<v Speaker 2>for Salt Lake now probably, But I wrote to ask

857
00:44:12.880 --> 00:44:14.800
<v Speaker 2>if I could get screeners for The Valley so that

858
00:44:14.920 --> 00:44:17.039
<v Speaker 2>I have my episodes out super early, and they just

859
00:44:17.039 --> 00:44:19.440
<v Speaker 2>went back and said no, We're just keeping a tight

860
00:44:19.639 --> 00:44:21.360
<v Speaker 2>list on who can get screeners.

861
00:44:20.920 --> 00:44:21.320
<v Speaker 1>For the Valley.

862
00:44:21.320 --> 00:44:23.599
<v Speaker 2>He's like, okay, great, they say no, and you just

863
00:44:23.639 --> 00:44:25.400
<v Speaker 2>the next show comes out and you try for that one.

864
00:44:25.440 --> 00:44:28.559
<v Speaker 1>I'm just like, okay, that's right, doing your bust. Aren't

865
00:44:28.599 --> 00:44:31.519
<v Speaker 1>we all doing my best? All right?

866
00:44:31.559 --> 00:44:32.960
<v Speaker 2>Let me see what I want to ask you else

867
00:44:33.119 --> 00:44:37.039
<v Speaker 2>about Love Hotel? What about Okay? What do you think

868
00:44:37.039 --> 00:44:38.880
<v Speaker 2>about Earl? Do you think girl's going to get voted off?

869
00:44:38.880 --> 00:44:40.280
<v Speaker 2>What do you think is in that letter that she

870
00:44:40.320 --> 00:44:42.679
<v Speaker 2>gave him this week? Because she looked very proud of

871
00:44:42.679 --> 00:44:45.199
<v Speaker 2>herself or handing him this letter, and he looked like

872
00:44:45.239 --> 00:44:48.199
<v Speaker 2>he like broke into tears. So what do we think

873
00:44:48.280 --> 00:44:48.880
<v Speaker 2>is in that letter.

874
00:44:49.239 --> 00:44:52.559
<v Speaker 3>Okay, this is my theory. And again, since we don't

875
00:44:52.599 --> 00:44:54.599
<v Speaker 3>get screeners, we have no idea if I'm correct, But

876
00:44:55.239 --> 00:45:00.800
<v Speaker 3>I believe that Shannon the other guy. So remember how

877
00:45:00.840 --> 00:45:04.239
<v Speaker 3>Shannon picked And I'm not remembering any of these men's names.

878
00:45:04.360 --> 00:45:05.639
<v Speaker 1>I've got I've got a list.

879
00:45:05.800 --> 00:45:10.199
<v Speaker 3>So okay, So the one that Shannon initially gave her

880
00:45:10.280 --> 00:45:12.679
<v Speaker 3>key to, but then now he's with Countess Luann. He

881
00:45:12.719 --> 00:45:14.920
<v Speaker 3>always says I love my life. Who's that guy?

882
00:45:15.119 --> 00:45:15.440
<v Speaker 1>Okay?

883
00:45:15.480 --> 00:45:18.960
<v Speaker 2>That guy is James and Kate Casey has inside scoop

884
00:45:19.639 --> 00:45:22.559
<v Speaker 2>that he is a total loser with no job.

885
00:45:23.840 --> 00:45:27.679
<v Speaker 3>I mean, doesn't he give those vibes like he gives

886
00:45:28.840 --> 00:45:32.000
<v Speaker 3>it was like a guy who loves Margaritaville and loves

887
00:45:32.079 --> 00:45:35.480
<v Speaker 3>just like being on the beach drinking and being like,

888
00:45:35.599 --> 00:45:37.400
<v Speaker 3>I love my life. You know what I mean. Yes,

889
00:45:37.440 --> 00:45:38.079
<v Speaker 3>that's the vibes.

890
00:45:38.199 --> 00:45:39.280
<v Speaker 1>He's from Santa Monica.

891
00:45:39.320 --> 00:45:43.400
<v Speaker 2>He's an entrepreneur, and he he's the I love my life.

892
00:45:43.440 --> 00:45:45.519
<v Speaker 1>But he went to USC so that's what he bonded

893
00:45:45.599 --> 00:45:46.400
<v Speaker 1>with Shannon.

894
00:45:46.079 --> 00:45:52.239
<v Speaker 3>Over right, But now Shannon is gravitating towards the.

895
00:45:52.280 --> 00:45:55.559
<v Speaker 2>Adam Adam and he's the worldly guy that like went

896
00:45:55.559 --> 00:45:58.159
<v Speaker 2>to Oxford and went to Yale and lived in Italy,

897
00:45:58.199 --> 00:45:58.960
<v Speaker 2>and he's like over.

898
00:45:58.960 --> 00:45:59.719
<v Speaker 1>Educated that guy.

899
00:46:00.119 --> 00:46:04.519
<v Speaker 3>Right. Yeah, So Adam, Countess Lwanne, and Shannon were walking

900
00:46:05.039 --> 00:46:08.639
<v Speaker 3>and so Shannon was so she literally was like, I'm

901
00:46:08.679 --> 00:46:10.960
<v Speaker 3>done with Earle. Let me move on to Adam. And

902
00:46:11.000 --> 00:46:13.679
<v Speaker 3>then Adam said, this was the moment I knew he

903
00:46:13.800 --> 00:46:16.840
<v Speaker 3>was done with her. He told Shannon, if you and

904
00:46:16.880 --> 00:46:20.199
<v Speaker 3>Countess Luanne were one woman, you would be my perfect woman.

905
00:46:20.280 --> 00:46:23.880
<v Speaker 3>And I was like, bye, Adam, bye, bye, see you later,

906
00:46:24.079 --> 00:46:28.159
<v Speaker 3>you dumbass, No, what are you even talking about? You do?

907
00:46:29.039 --> 00:46:32.000
<v Speaker 3>It was so rude and so but here's the thing.

908
00:46:32.119 --> 00:46:35.719
<v Speaker 3>Shannon is like, she's not like Countess luwan Countess Luan.

909
00:46:35.800 --> 00:46:38.519
<v Speaker 3>She's like, who cares, I'm just trying to get you know,

910
00:46:38.639 --> 00:46:40.559
<v Speaker 3>I'm just trying to get my needs met, which, like

911
00:46:40.679 --> 00:46:43.880
<v Speaker 3>Kine good for her, But for Shannon, she was like

912
00:46:44.119 --> 00:46:47.159
<v Speaker 3>I she thought she was going from Earle to to Adam,

913
00:46:47.280 --> 00:46:49.559
<v Speaker 3>and now she's done with Adam. And I believe the

914
00:46:49.599 --> 00:46:53.960
<v Speaker 3>note says will you be my something or other? Like

915
00:46:54.039 --> 00:46:58.119
<v Speaker 3>I think she's choosing him and she's gonna eliminate Adam,

916
00:46:58.199 --> 00:47:01.480
<v Speaker 3>That's what I think. And he's so overwhelmed with like

917
00:47:01.599 --> 00:47:04.880
<v Speaker 3>shock and gratitude because he thought he was done.

918
00:47:05.599 --> 00:47:08.400
<v Speaker 2>Okay, that's a great theory. That's a that's a that's

919
00:47:08.400 --> 00:47:10.639
<v Speaker 2>a flipping and reverse it. I didn't think about that,

920
00:47:10.679 --> 00:47:12.800
<v Speaker 2>but you could be right. The tears could because he's

921
00:47:12.840 --> 00:47:17.360
<v Speaker 2>so grateful that he's getting the second chance. And but listen,

922
00:47:17.400 --> 00:47:19.719
<v Speaker 2>they're never gonna work out. Where does he live? Earl

923
00:47:19.800 --> 00:47:22.920
<v Speaker 2>lives in He lives in Atlanta. He like lives on

924
00:47:22.920 --> 00:47:26.760
<v Speaker 2>a lake. He's got the stupid, weird shoes, and I

925
00:47:26.760 --> 00:47:31.280
<v Speaker 2>think she purposely picks that. In my opinion, everybody's feelings

926
00:47:31.320 --> 00:47:34.880
<v Speaker 2>are different. My opinion, the least attractive man. She picked

927
00:47:34.960 --> 00:47:36.760
<v Speaker 2>him because she was like, the least attractive guy will

928
00:47:36.840 --> 00:47:38.480
<v Speaker 2>light me. That's like me when I was growing up

929
00:47:38.519 --> 00:47:41.519
<v Speaker 2>and there there's a boy band or a rock band,

930
00:47:41.599 --> 00:47:43.719
<v Speaker 2>i would pick what I deemed to be the least

931
00:47:43.719 --> 00:47:47.880
<v Speaker 2>attractive member of Guns n' Roses or whatever, and I'd

932
00:47:47.880 --> 00:47:50.960
<v Speaker 2>be like, that's my boyfriends, you know what I mean,

933
00:47:50.960 --> 00:47:53.039
<v Speaker 2>because I'm like, I could never get the lead singer.

934
00:47:53.280 --> 00:47:55.559
<v Speaker 2>So I think Shannon does that. She's like, Okay, all

935
00:47:55.599 --> 00:47:59.639
<v Speaker 2>these guys. Earl he is a legal consultant. He's probably

936
00:47:59.639 --> 00:48:01.960
<v Speaker 2>pretty successful, but he's not very cute, So I'm going

937
00:48:02.039 --> 00:48:03.480
<v Speaker 2>to go for him because I know I could get him.

938
00:48:03.920 --> 00:48:07.440
<v Speaker 3>That's that fully a great First of all, Mary Payne,

939
00:48:07.480 --> 00:48:11.480
<v Speaker 3>you deserve lead singer energy, okay, number one snap.

940
00:48:11.199 --> 00:48:14.079
<v Speaker 2>Okay, no, no, I'm definitely like the bass player or

941
00:48:14.079 --> 00:48:14.679
<v Speaker 2>the keyboarder.

942
00:48:15.000 --> 00:48:17.679
<v Speaker 3>Okay, fine, But I'm just saying you deserve no scraps,

943
00:48:17.760 --> 00:48:22.679
<v Speaker 3>my dear. But I fully agree because remember Giselle, they

944
00:48:22.679 --> 00:48:25.639
<v Speaker 3>were talking about how Earl's her safety net, and so

945
00:48:25.960 --> 00:48:29.280
<v Speaker 3>I knew as soon as Adam said that thing that

946
00:48:29.440 --> 00:48:32.440
<v Speaker 3>was so rude that she was like, all she had

947
00:48:32.519 --> 00:48:36.719
<v Speaker 3>was Earle. She has no other connections or roads to

948
00:48:37.599 --> 00:48:38.440
<v Speaker 3>any other guy.

949
00:48:38.719 --> 00:48:41.519
<v Speaker 2>She doesn't even know that the ladies had a meeting

950
00:48:41.599 --> 00:48:45.440
<v Speaker 2>and decided to give Adam to her. And I think

951
00:48:45.480 --> 00:48:47.239
<v Speaker 2>when she sees that, because I doubt we're going to

952
00:48:47.280 --> 00:48:49.360
<v Speaker 2>get a reunion, when she sees that, her feelings is

953
00:48:49.400 --> 00:48:51.320
<v Speaker 2>going to be like that would that would hurt my

954
00:48:51.320 --> 00:48:53.159
<v Speaker 2>feelings so bad, be like, oh, they think I'm such

955
00:48:53.159 --> 00:48:55.639
<v Speaker 2>a loser that they're giving me some guy I can't

956
00:48:55.679 --> 00:48:56.519
<v Speaker 2>get him on my own.

957
00:48:57.159 --> 00:48:59.960
<v Speaker 3>But I think that's how she's already feeling. I think

958
00:49:00.159 --> 00:49:02.559
<v Speaker 3>she'll be very upset when she sees it, but it's

959
00:49:02.639 --> 00:49:06.559
<v Speaker 3>like a literal representation of how she feels inside. And

960
00:49:06.599 --> 00:49:09.920
<v Speaker 3>that's truly what happened. Shannon is just getting seconds of

961
00:49:09.960 --> 00:49:13.800
<v Speaker 3>what these other women don't want, and that has got

962
00:49:13.800 --> 00:49:16.519
<v Speaker 3>to be a blow to her already, just like really

963
00:49:16.599 --> 00:49:19.360
<v Speaker 3>terrible self esteem. And it bums me out because I

964
00:49:19.480 --> 00:49:23.559
<v Speaker 3>want fabulous women to believe that they're fabulous, because I

965
00:49:23.599 --> 00:49:28.360
<v Speaker 3>think that if she did, she'd probably utilize alcohol less

966
00:49:28.920 --> 00:49:31.679
<v Speaker 3>than she does. I think, I mean, people don't drink

967
00:49:31.719 --> 00:49:33.119
<v Speaker 3>a lot because they're super happy.

968
00:49:34.480 --> 00:49:37.639
<v Speaker 2>That's right, Oh, they really don't. They might have a

969
00:49:37.719 --> 00:49:39.440
<v Speaker 2>drink when they're super happy, but they don't.

970
00:49:39.599 --> 00:49:40.000
<v Speaker 3>Sure.

971
00:49:40.599 --> 00:49:41.599
<v Speaker 1>Let me ask you this too.

972
00:49:42.480 --> 00:49:45.599
<v Speaker 2>Louis talked about this she's on a seven year cycle,

973
00:49:46.119 --> 00:49:47.840
<v Speaker 2>because she was like, you know, I'm on the seven

974
00:49:47.880 --> 00:49:49.880
<v Speaker 2>year cycle, and then the birthday in the seven seventeen.

975
00:49:50.079 --> 00:49:53.320
<v Speaker 2>We've never really seen Luyne ever have an emotion like

976
00:49:53.360 --> 00:49:56.119
<v Speaker 2>that where she actually got sort of choked up about

977
00:49:56.159 --> 00:49:58.559
<v Speaker 2>like a family situation, like we've never seen it.

978
00:49:58.719 --> 00:49:59.559
<v Speaker 1>I've never seen it.

979
00:50:00.119 --> 00:50:02.000
<v Speaker 2>Saying she had to like put herself in the bathroom

980
00:50:02.039 --> 00:50:06.119
<v Speaker 2>and like pull herself together talking about because they said, oh,

981
00:50:06.159 --> 00:50:08.199
<v Speaker 2>something that she goes well, I was married for seven

982
00:50:08.280 --> 00:50:09.920
<v Speaker 2>years and divorced, and then I was with this guy

983
00:50:09.960 --> 00:50:12.239
<v Speaker 2>for seven months and now I'm on the seventh year

984
00:50:12.280 --> 00:50:15.239
<v Speaker 2>of that. That whole thing really means I've never heard

985
00:50:15.280 --> 00:50:17.719
<v Speaker 2>of such is the seven year cycle something that you've

986
00:50:17.760 --> 00:50:18.440
<v Speaker 2>heard of before.

987
00:50:19.119 --> 00:50:23.360
<v Speaker 3>So I haven't heard of that specific thing, but it

988
00:50:23.440 --> 00:50:27.880
<v Speaker 3>does make sense that, you know, and I don't know

989
00:50:27.880 --> 00:50:31.320
<v Speaker 3>if this is true or not. Physiologically, our bodies like

990
00:50:31.840 --> 00:50:35.960
<v Speaker 3>every like certain amount of years, like cells regenerate and things,

991
00:50:36.039 --> 00:50:39.280
<v Speaker 3>you know, our bodies change, and so if that stands

992
00:50:39.360 --> 00:50:41.519
<v Speaker 3>to be true, why not the same thing for our

993
00:50:41.519 --> 00:50:44.679
<v Speaker 3>mental health. So it's not like there's something I've studied

994
00:50:44.679 --> 00:50:47.199
<v Speaker 3>about this or like a major theory that I'm aware of.

995
00:50:47.760 --> 00:50:50.679
<v Speaker 3>But I definitely think that the whole cycle thing speaks

996
00:50:50.760 --> 00:50:55.360
<v Speaker 3>to how if we don't, if we don't look at

997
00:50:55.440 --> 00:51:00.199
<v Speaker 3>underlying issues that are leading us, Yeah, there's going to

998
00:51:00.239 --> 00:51:04.480
<v Speaker 3>be repetitive behaviors that kind of boomerang around back to us.

999
00:51:04.920 --> 00:51:08.239
<v Speaker 3>I like to say sometimes it's the Universe's way of saying, well,

1000
00:51:08.920 --> 00:51:11.440
<v Speaker 3>you know, you're you don't get away without you know,

1001
00:51:11.639 --> 00:51:13.679
<v Speaker 3>this hit in your head in the head again for

1002
00:51:13.760 --> 00:51:17.519
<v Speaker 3>you know, the seventh time, or whatever I want. Because

1003
00:51:18.079 --> 00:51:21.000
<v Speaker 3>Countess Lewann doesn't give me the sense again of someone

1004
00:51:21.079 --> 00:51:25.360
<v Speaker 3>who's incredibly comfortable with her emotions, and so and again,

1005
00:51:25.400 --> 00:51:29.400
<v Speaker 3>I think she drank overutilized alcohol because she struggles to

1006
00:51:29.440 --> 00:51:32.320
<v Speaker 3>feel those big emotions too, as evidence by you know,

1007
00:51:32.440 --> 00:51:35.039
<v Speaker 3>having to go into the bathroom finding out that that

1008
00:51:35.079 --> 00:51:37.199
<v Speaker 3>guy had the same birthday as her dad. Right, it

1009
00:51:37.239 --> 00:51:39.719
<v Speaker 3>brought up so much grief. So it just tells me

1010
00:51:39.760 --> 00:51:41.960
<v Speaker 3>that she does have a lot of feelings there that

1011
00:51:42.000 --> 00:51:46.440
<v Speaker 3>she's in process of or maybe not, but that are

1012
00:51:46.880 --> 00:51:50.599
<v Speaker 3>maybe leading her to have some repetitive cycles of some behaviors.

1013
00:51:50.880 --> 00:51:53.800
<v Speaker 2>It's so interesting. All these people are so interesting. I'm

1014
00:51:53.840 --> 00:51:57.199
<v Speaker 2>so happy I got to talk to you about all

1015
00:51:57.239 --> 00:52:02.280
<v Speaker 2>of them because I'm always like armchair ex for psychoanalyzing everybody.

1016
00:52:02.840 --> 00:52:06.360
<v Speaker 2>And so, okay, I would like to wrap it up

1017
00:52:06.360 --> 00:52:10.320
<v Speaker 2>with this. Jack said Jesse really are the same, and

1018
00:52:10.360 --> 00:52:12.079
<v Speaker 2>that's why they're drawn to each other, and that's why

1019
00:52:12.159 --> 00:52:15.039
<v Speaker 2>Jesse's always taking up for Jackson all that stuff. But

1020
00:52:15.320 --> 00:52:19.000
<v Speaker 2>you know, my theory is Jesse's a little smarter. You said,

1021
00:52:19.039 --> 00:52:22.079
<v Speaker 2>his mask is on just a little tighter. Do you

1022
00:52:22.119 --> 00:52:26.440
<v Speaker 2>think in the in the terms of sociopaths, psychopath whatever,

1023
00:52:26.599 --> 00:52:31.039
<v Speaker 2>I definitely think Jackson is there, Jesse, I feel like

1024
00:52:31.119 --> 00:52:33.239
<v Speaker 2>has a little more and it could just be what

1025
00:52:33.239 --> 00:52:35.599
<v Speaker 2>we're seeing on TV, but he seems to have a

1026
00:52:35.639 --> 00:52:44.320
<v Speaker 2>little more paternal feelings or you know, really being into

1027
00:52:44.400 --> 00:52:46.519
<v Speaker 2>like his kid and stuff of what we're seeing on TV.

1028
00:52:46.639 --> 00:52:49.119
<v Speaker 2>Now Michelle will tell you like, yeah, okay, great, not

1029
00:52:49.199 --> 00:52:50.960
<v Speaker 2>so much. He does like the kid with the nanny

1030
00:52:51.000 --> 00:52:54.920
<v Speaker 2>all the time. What are your thoughts on these two

1031
00:52:55.079 --> 00:52:58.360
<v Speaker 2>particular guys as far as if they were your clients

1032
00:52:58.400 --> 00:53:03.800
<v Speaker 2>and you could just broadly diagnose them, if they were

1033
00:53:04.360 --> 00:53:05.960
<v Speaker 2>how to navigate life.

1034
00:53:05.760 --> 00:53:07.960
<v Speaker 3>If they were my client, they would never come back

1035
00:53:08.559 --> 00:53:11.559
<v Speaker 3>because I've worked with men like this my entire career,

1036
00:53:11.840 --> 00:53:15.559
<v Speaker 3>and I've had death threats as a result. Because so

1037
00:53:15.760 --> 00:53:19.280
<v Speaker 3>again I you know, it's a long story, but I

1038
00:53:19.320 --> 00:53:22.400
<v Speaker 3>am unable to be manipulated by men like this. I

1039
00:53:22.480 --> 00:53:25.800
<v Speaker 3>have their number, I understand what's going on. I'm not

1040
00:53:25.880 --> 00:53:28.280
<v Speaker 3>able to be fooled. And so with someone like this,

1041
00:53:28.320 --> 00:53:30.480
<v Speaker 3>when you're not able to be fooled, what do they do?

1042
00:53:30.519 --> 00:53:33.760
<v Speaker 3>They try to like deflect project, well, you used cocaine too,

1043
00:53:33.840 --> 00:53:38.159
<v Speaker 3>or blah blah whatever. So if they were my client,

1044
00:53:38.199 --> 00:53:41.880
<v Speaker 3>which they wouldn't be, because I don't think they really

1045
00:53:42.000 --> 00:53:46.000
<v Speaker 3>want to change. That's the only like when it comes

1046
00:53:46.079 --> 00:53:50.760
<v Speaker 3>to human beings and the question of can they change,

1047
00:53:50.880 --> 00:53:55.000
<v Speaker 3>the only real question is like do they want to?

1048
00:53:56.039 --> 00:54:01.840
<v Speaker 3>Anyone can change under any circumstances if they have the motivation.

1049
00:54:02.920 --> 00:54:05.960
<v Speaker 3>And I don't believe that Jackson is motivated to change

1050
00:54:05.960 --> 00:54:08.639
<v Speaker 3>at all. I think that Jax has been rewarded for

1051
00:54:08.719 --> 00:54:13.039
<v Speaker 3>his bad behavior by becoming famous because of it. I

1052
00:54:13.159 --> 00:54:17.639
<v Speaker 3>believe that Jesse. Here's what I'll say about Jesse. I

1053
00:54:17.679 --> 00:54:25.719
<v Speaker 3>think he feigns more care and kindness and awareness, but

1054
00:54:26.199 --> 00:54:30.960
<v Speaker 3>I don't believe he actually possesses those things because, for example,

1055
00:54:30.960 --> 00:54:34.159
<v Speaker 3>when he went on Watch What Happens Live, he continued

1056
00:54:34.199 --> 00:54:38.119
<v Speaker 3>to kind of blame shift about his behaviors to Michelle.

1057
00:54:38.760 --> 00:54:43.559
<v Speaker 3>And so it's like, well, I think Jacks and Jesse

1058
00:54:43.840 --> 00:54:47.760
<v Speaker 3>are both two people that present differently but have very

1059
00:54:47.800 --> 00:54:52.800
<v Speaker 3>similar pathology. I can't necessarily give a diagnosis, because again

1060
00:54:52.840 --> 00:54:56.239
<v Speaker 3>that wouldn't be ethical, but I can definitely say that

1061
00:54:56.360 --> 00:54:59.920
<v Speaker 3>there is antisocial behaviors. There is for sure a lot

1062
00:55:00.039 --> 00:55:03.000
<v Speaker 3>lack of empathy. And especially here's what I would argue

1063
00:55:03.000 --> 00:55:06.159
<v Speaker 3>with Jesse. Right, Jesse seems like more of a present parent,

1064
00:55:06.480 --> 00:55:10.760
<v Speaker 3>seems being the key word, because if he, in my opinion,

1065
00:55:10.920 --> 00:55:14.519
<v Speaker 3>really cared about his daughter, he would probably treat the

1066
00:55:14.599 --> 00:55:19.960
<v Speaker 3>mother of his daughter right differently, because what happens is

1067
00:55:20.159 --> 00:55:23.719
<v Speaker 3>kids don't learn how to teach others from what they're told.

1068
00:55:23.800 --> 00:55:28.079
<v Speaker 3>They learn by modeling and watching. And so I think

1069
00:55:28.360 --> 00:55:30.800
<v Speaker 3>I'm going to stick with my previous assessment, which is

1070
00:55:30.840 --> 00:55:34.400
<v Speaker 3>I think that Jesse's mac mask is just a fixed

1071
00:55:34.599 --> 00:55:38.719
<v Speaker 3>tighter and it slides less often. Jack's doesn't care if

1072
00:55:38.719 --> 00:55:41.840
<v Speaker 3>the mask comes off because Bravo pays him to take

1073
00:55:41.880 --> 00:55:42.480
<v Speaker 3>it off.

1074
00:55:43.000 --> 00:55:46.480
<v Speaker 2>Until it's still Brittany finally told production what was going

1075
00:55:46.519 --> 00:55:49.960
<v Speaker 2>on and threatened his job, and that's that's what he's

1076
00:55:49.960 --> 00:55:52.360
<v Speaker 2>mad about. He's not mad that she said he did

1077
00:55:52.400 --> 00:55:55.840
<v Speaker 2>cocaine and anything. She's mad that his job is threatened.

1078
00:55:56.119 --> 00:56:00.800
<v Speaker 3>So what does that tell you about Jacks? He literally care. Yeah,

1079
00:56:01.239 --> 00:56:03.480
<v Speaker 3>he only cares about himself. And let's not forget. Do

1080
00:56:03.519 --> 00:56:06.039
<v Speaker 3>you remember one time Jacks was asked the question of like,

1081
00:56:06.079 --> 00:56:08.920
<v Speaker 3>if you were dying of had like a terminal illness,

1082
00:56:09.280 --> 00:56:11.239
<v Speaker 3>what would you do? And he said he would off

1083
00:56:11.320 --> 00:56:13.280
<v Speaker 3>a bunch of people because he wanted to know what

1084
00:56:13.280 --> 00:56:13.840
<v Speaker 3>it felt like.

1085
00:56:16.039 --> 00:56:17.719
<v Speaker 1>That's, uh, that sounds about right.

1086
00:56:17.880 --> 00:56:22.239
<v Speaker 2>That would be your mean who would have that thought?

1087
00:56:22.320 --> 00:56:25.039
<v Speaker 3>And that's my point. It's like, and I don't think

1088
00:56:25.039 --> 00:56:27.119
<v Speaker 3>he says these things for shock value. I think he

1089
00:56:27.320 --> 00:56:31.960
<v Speaker 3>just is. He doesn't need his mask because people like

1090
00:56:32.159 --> 00:56:36.079
<v Speaker 3>on Watch What Happens Live, they did a poll about

1091
00:56:36.119 --> 00:56:38.719
<v Speaker 3>like all the valley men and who would want to

1092
00:56:38.840 --> 00:56:42.599
<v Speaker 3>date who. There were fourteen percent of people that chose

1093
00:56:43.119 --> 00:56:45.719
<v Speaker 3>Jax and Jesse. And I said, fourteen percent of these

1094
00:56:45.760 --> 00:56:49.079
<v Speaker 3>people need to get to therapy a Saparina because that

1095
00:56:49.320 --> 00:56:52.199
<v Speaker 3>is the wildest choice after.

1096
00:56:52.119 --> 00:56:53.840
<v Speaker 1>Watching these men.

1097
00:56:54.280 --> 00:56:59.280
<v Speaker 3>But to point, sometimes when we're young, insecure, we think, oh,

1098
00:56:59.320 --> 00:57:01.159
<v Speaker 3>maybe I could get to Jack's, maybe I could get

1099
00:57:01.159 --> 00:57:03.440
<v Speaker 3>a Jesse. I'd let him abuse me because you know

1100
00:57:03.519 --> 00:57:05.320
<v Speaker 3>it would make me feel something.

1101
00:57:05.320 --> 00:57:06.440
<v Speaker 1>And then I'll be famous too.

1102
00:57:06.719 --> 00:57:10.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah right, yeah, well, I think the difference between Jesse

1103
00:57:10.639 --> 00:57:13.840
<v Speaker 2>and Jackson's You'll see Jesse this past episode said, you know,

1104
00:57:13.920 --> 00:57:16.280
<v Speaker 2>Michelle's got these deep seated hatred towards me.

1105
00:57:16.199 --> 00:57:17.119
<v Speaker 1>And I have no idea why.

1106
00:57:17.800 --> 00:57:21.400
<v Speaker 3>And you're like, bro, I literally wrote that, Mary Payne,

1107
00:57:21.440 --> 00:57:23.519
<v Speaker 3>I wrote, I wrote it, and then I wrote, bro.

1108
00:57:23.800 --> 00:57:26.480
<v Speaker 2>I was like, I didn't know, that's exactly what I wrote.

1109
00:57:26.679 --> 00:57:27.559
<v Speaker 2>That's exactly what.

1110
00:57:27.559 --> 00:57:32.400
<v Speaker 3>I wrote, I wrote, next, but bro, I.

1111
00:57:32.480 --> 00:57:33.800
<v Speaker 1>Love, what are you talking about?

1112
00:57:33.840 --> 00:57:36.320
<v Speaker 2>And then but then on the other hand, Jacks will say,

1113
00:57:37.199 --> 00:57:39.039
<v Speaker 2>I mean, Brittany's really mad at me, and of course

1114
00:57:39.039 --> 00:57:41.079
<v Speaker 2>she has every reason to me I've been a terrible husband.

1115
00:57:41.119 --> 00:57:42.440
<v Speaker 2>But I mean, you know, at the same time, she's

1116
00:57:42.480 --> 00:57:44.599
<v Speaker 2>not a great wife. So he'll say the right thing,

1117
00:57:44.679 --> 00:57:46.400
<v Speaker 2>say the right thing, and then he can't just stop.

1118
00:57:46.760 --> 00:57:49.960
<v Speaker 2>He has to then say but that she did it too.

1119
00:57:49.960 --> 00:57:52.280
<v Speaker 2>I mean, he can't just say she has every reason

1120
00:57:52.280 --> 00:57:54.280
<v Speaker 2>to be mad at me, I get it, and then stop.

1121
00:57:54.320 --> 00:57:54.760
<v Speaker 1>He has to go.

1122
00:57:54.840 --> 00:57:56.639
<v Speaker 2>But at the same time, she's been terrible, you know

1123
00:57:56.679 --> 00:57:58.719
<v Speaker 2>what I mean, where Jesse just seems to be like

1124
00:57:59.559 --> 00:58:03.639
<v Speaker 2>on a planet clueless. Oh no, no, no, blame on

1125
00:58:03.760 --> 00:58:05.000
<v Speaker 2>himself for what he's done.

1126
00:58:05.440 --> 00:58:08.639
<v Speaker 3>No, And that's why Jesse, like I said, he feigns

1127
00:58:08.639 --> 00:58:11.480
<v Speaker 3>accountability like Hill when he woke up after like his

1128
00:58:11.840 --> 00:58:17.400
<v Speaker 3>drunken like bloomer freak out, like he was like, I

1129
00:58:17.519 --> 00:58:19.840
<v Speaker 3>understand now that I was wrong, but you know it

1130
00:58:19.880 --> 00:58:21.880
<v Speaker 3>really was Michelle's fault. And it's like, then you don't

1131
00:58:21.960 --> 00:58:26.639
<v Speaker 3>understand that you were wrong. So I definitely think that

1132
00:58:27.760 --> 00:58:33.360
<v Speaker 3>when I'm all for people going into treatment, you know, sobriety, recovery,

1133
00:58:33.719 --> 00:58:37.000
<v Speaker 3>whatever that looks like for them. But based on behaviors,

1134
00:58:37.119 --> 00:58:40.760
<v Speaker 3>I can tell you that Jax is no different than

1135
00:58:40.840 --> 00:58:42.559
<v Speaker 3>he was before, right, And.

1136
00:58:42.639 --> 00:58:44.440
<v Speaker 2>She says, that's what Brittany says. She says, I guess

1137
00:58:44.440 --> 00:58:48.239
<v Speaker 2>he's sober, but he's literally the exact same person. I go, yeah,

1138
00:58:47.840 --> 00:58:48.119
<v Speaker 2>he is.

1139
00:58:48.239 --> 00:58:52.719
<v Speaker 3>And sometimes people get quote unquote they get sober, but

1140
00:58:52.800 --> 00:58:56.480
<v Speaker 3>really what happens is they're dry. Sobriety is a process

1141
00:58:56.920 --> 00:59:02.039
<v Speaker 3>of significant self exploration and work on yourself. It's tedious,

1142
00:59:02.199 --> 00:59:04.960
<v Speaker 3>it's hard. It's the hardest work people have ever done.

1143
00:59:05.000 --> 00:59:10.079
<v Speaker 3>Your husband could attest to that, and it's not hard

1144
00:59:10.199 --> 00:59:13.039
<v Speaker 3>to take the substance away and to have all the

1145
00:59:13.079 --> 00:59:16.119
<v Speaker 3>same behaviors that you had as an addict. That's being dry,

1146
00:59:16.159 --> 00:59:20.119
<v Speaker 3>that's not being sober. And so again, I can't say

1147
00:59:20.199 --> 00:59:24.000
<v Speaker 3>I don't know, but Jack's behaviors tell me that he's

1148
00:59:24.119 --> 00:59:27.639
<v Speaker 3>not working a program where he is looking to be

1149
00:59:28.119 --> 00:59:32.000
<v Speaker 3>accountable for things, because a true accountability lies in I

1150
00:59:32.119 --> 00:59:36.000
<v Speaker 3>did this, full stop. It doesn't matter what someone else does.

1151
00:59:36.079 --> 00:59:39.800
<v Speaker 3>If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, and that is the end

1152
00:59:39.800 --> 00:59:41.840
<v Speaker 3>of it. It doesn't matter if someone accepts the apology.

1153
00:59:41.840 --> 00:59:44.920
<v Speaker 3>It doesn't matter what the person did. It's solely on me.

1154
00:59:45.360 --> 00:59:49.840
<v Speaker 3>And when Jesse and Jacks can take that route, then

1155
00:59:50.159 --> 00:59:52.239
<v Speaker 3>to me, that will be a sign that something shifted.

1156
00:59:52.320 --> 00:59:56.719
<v Speaker 3>Until that point, they are just a revolving door of bullshit. Yep.

1157
00:59:56.920 --> 01:00:01.400
<v Speaker 2>Well amen, oh I got that's a good place to

1158
01:00:01.480 --> 01:00:04.119
<v Speaker 2>end it, because wow, yeah, they're revolving doora bullshit.

1159
01:00:04.159 --> 01:00:04.800
<v Speaker 1>Okay, it's just like.

1160
01:00:04.800 --> 01:00:07.239
<v Speaker 2>Jesse jack Jesse Jack's Jesse Jackson just going through that

1161
01:00:07.480 --> 01:00:10.920
<v Speaker 2>revolving dura bullshit. Tell everybody where they can find you

1162
01:00:10.960 --> 01:00:13.719
<v Speaker 2>on social media and where they can find your podcast too.

1163
01:00:14.360 --> 01:00:18.559
<v Speaker 3>Sure, so it is your bish therapist podcast. Bish is

1164
01:00:18.559 --> 01:00:22.679
<v Speaker 3>spelled bish because I can be bitchy, but you know

1165
01:00:22.840 --> 01:00:25.920
<v Speaker 3>that's not a great handle, So it's your bish therapist.

1166
01:00:26.079 --> 01:00:29.880
<v Speaker 2>But it does it does come from Joe Gorga saying

1167
01:00:29.880 --> 01:00:30.679
<v Speaker 2>my bitch wife.

1168
01:00:31.039 --> 01:00:34.559
<v Speaker 3>That's exactly right, right, and it was good Amy, So yes,

1169
01:00:34.679 --> 01:00:37.920
<v Speaker 3>Amy gave me the moniker. Coming from Joe Gorga saying

1170
01:00:37.920 --> 01:00:40.199
<v Speaker 3>that about Teresa, that for sure a playoff of that.

1171
01:00:41.679 --> 01:00:45.039
<v Speaker 3>So you can find me on Instagram. That's my biggest

1172
01:00:45.079 --> 01:00:49.039
<v Speaker 3>social media platform, and my podcast is available anywhere you

1173
01:00:49.039 --> 01:00:52.920
<v Speaker 3>listen to podcasts. I am on YouTube, I am on Patreon,

1174
01:00:53.039 --> 01:00:58.000
<v Speaker 3>your bish therapist on Patreon, I am on Blue Sky, TikTok, Facebook,

1175
01:00:58.039 --> 01:01:01.519
<v Speaker 3>I mean all of the things everywhere. It's always your therapist,

1176
01:01:01.920 --> 01:01:07.920
<v Speaker 3>always your bisch therapist. My Patreon is subscribers and free

1177
01:01:07.920 --> 01:01:11.199
<v Speaker 3>members as well, but then the podcast is also completely free.

1178
01:01:11.400 --> 01:01:14.000
<v Speaker 3>And what I'm doing is I'm offering on Apple podcast,

1179
01:01:14.119 --> 01:01:19.400
<v Speaker 3>on YouTube and on Patreon. I'm offering subscription services for people,

1180
01:01:19.480 --> 01:01:22.000
<v Speaker 3>you know, because people really hate ads and things like that.

1181
01:01:22.360 --> 01:01:24.559
<v Speaker 3>So if you love my podcast and you hate an ad,

1182
01:01:24.880 --> 01:01:26.639
<v Speaker 3>please sign up. We'd love to have you.

1183
01:01:27.159 --> 01:01:29.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, subscribe if you want to get that ad

1184
01:01:29.280 --> 01:01:33.480
<v Speaker 2>free stuff. I have that too, on my ten dollars

1185
01:01:33.559 --> 01:01:35.440
<v Speaker 2>level too. I was like, it's all ad free, it's advere,

1186
01:01:35.480 --> 01:01:38.679
<v Speaker 2>you get the medio everything, advery, advere, advery because people

1187
01:01:38.679 --> 01:01:39.960
<v Speaker 2>really will complain about an AD.

1188
01:01:40.239 --> 01:01:42.679
<v Speaker 3>I'm like, oh sure, will Mary Payne.

1189
01:01:42.639 --> 01:01:44.400
<v Speaker 1>And I'm like, you know, and then guess what, there

1190
01:01:44.440 --> 01:01:46.719
<v Speaker 1>here's an option for you, right.

1191
01:01:46.679 --> 01:01:49.079
<v Speaker 3>Exactly, because we still got to make that coin, honey.

1192
01:01:48.880 --> 01:01:53.119
<v Speaker 2>Because podcasting at free, agree, and then that's crazy a

1193
01:01:53.320 --> 01:01:55.599
<v Speaker 2>free and it ain't easy. And everybody, if you're listening

1194
01:01:55.719 --> 01:01:58.199
<v Speaker 2>here and you don't follow me, please follow me at

1195
01:01:58.320 --> 01:02:00.480
<v Speaker 2>peink Shade Pod. That's where you can find there'll be

1196
01:02:00.480 --> 01:02:02.960
<v Speaker 2>a fun real about this. I'll come up with it.

1197
01:02:03.000 --> 01:02:06.119
<v Speaker 2>I wrote a couple of notes here revolving door bullshit

1198
01:02:06.159 --> 01:02:06.880
<v Speaker 2>will probably win.

1199
01:02:07.320 --> 01:02:11.119
<v Speaker 1>That's pretty good. That's pretty good. All right, Thank you, Melissa,

1200
01:02:11.199 --> 01:02:12.960
<v Speaker 1>don't hang out. Thank you, thank you,