Speaker 1: There we go. What's up everyone, Welcome to another episode
Speaker 1: of Adventures in DevOps Warren. Thanks for joining me again.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I think you don't need to thank me.
Speaker 3: Every time I decided to show up, I always said
Speaker 3: that we were going to have like a maybe a
Speaker 3: cool fact at the beginning of every episode, and I
Speaker 3: try to come up with one, although I do believe
Speaker 3: last time Jillian committed to bringing the fact and I don't.
Speaker 3: Maybe it's a coincidence that she's just not here today,
Speaker 3: so I will have to step in and share something.
Speaker 2: I forgot the pin for my backup phone.
Speaker 3: And I didn't remember how many digits it was and
Speaker 3: on Android, apparently you can keep going forever.
Speaker 2: So I was on one hundred and fifty attempts.
Speaker 3: I would try to guess for this PINNs and it
Speaker 3: wasn't like, no, I don't care about factory resetting it,
Speaker 3: but you know, I just wanted to see, like can
Speaker 3: I get it? And actually one hundred and fifty one
Speaker 3: I finally got it. I had up the pin size.
Speaker 2: To twelve digits and like that was like a real
Speaker 2: for me.
Speaker 3: So you know, if you forget your Android, Penn, just
Speaker 3: keep trying there's there's no there's no time. I mean,
Speaker 3: there's a thirty second time out for up per attempt,
Speaker 3: but other than that, you just keep going.
Speaker 1: So is that like manual brute force attack? Is that
Speaker 1: the category this would fall into?
Speaker 4: Right on?
Speaker 1: Cool, I'm excited about today's episode. Joining us today, we
Speaker 1: have Matt Lee from Schematical and from cloud wargames dot com.
Speaker 1: Looking at your background here, Matt, co founder of drawn
Speaker 1: by dot ai, author of ship or Get Off Thepot
Speaker 1: dot com, and then gymnastics coach for eighteen years and
Speaker 1: out of Madison, Wisconsin. Welcome Matt, Thanks thanks for having me.
Speaker 5: Yeah, the shipper dot com I'm not doing anymore, but
Speaker 5: uh the I actually did write a book on coaching
Speaker 5: gymnastics called Hacking Here Strategies how to help high performing
Speaker 5: police through mental issues.
Speaker 4: So fun fays right on.
Speaker 1: My youngest son did gymnastics from I think from when
Speaker 1: he was about ten all the way up until his
Speaker 1: senior year and high school and his senior year. I
Speaker 1: mean you're probably well aware of this, Like the number
Speaker 1: of collegiate positions for men gymnastics is very, very small,
Speaker 1: and so he knew that that wasn't going to get
Speaker 1: him anywhere, and he wanted to participate in some kind
Speaker 1: of activity at school because for his entire education, he
Speaker 1: would get out of school, his mom would be waiting
Speaker 1: in the parking lot and she would drive him an
Speaker 1: hour to the gymnastics facility and he would work out
Speaker 1: for four hours, doing his homework in the car, and
Speaker 1: that was his life growing up. So his senior year
Speaker 1: he wanted to do something that was school related and
Speaker 1: that was the end of his gymnastics career. But it's
Speaker 1: a commitment and there's so much mental to itbsolutely.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's not an on count of a story unfortunately,
Speaker 5: men gymnastics it's just.
Speaker 4: Not doing as well these days. Too many competitors this
Speaker 4: sport are cooler in.
Speaker 1: Other things, right for sure. Yeah, And I think the
Speaker 1: commitment to it just kind of kind of just like
Speaker 1: self filters, you know, so that when you do get
Speaker 1: to those people that are there, you've got some very
Speaker 1: committed individuals.
Speaker 4: Yeah you don't.
Speaker 5: You played football, You play soccer. No one plays gymnastics.
Speaker 1: Right A point. Cool, So tell us a little bit
Speaker 1: about actually, first you it looks like you've been in
Speaker 1: Wisconsin for a long time. Are you Wisconsin native?
Speaker 5: Yeah, born and raised, traveled the world that I keep
Speaker 5: coming back here, and about four years settled down a
Speaker 5: bout a house out in the countryside a little north
Speaker 5: of Madison, and.
Speaker 3: And love right on Madison is fantastic. I lived there
Speaker 3: for two years, and I will say that I love
Speaker 3: being there in the summer. Only qualifier that.
Speaker 5: Summer and fall. Yeah, you would get this time of
Speaker 5: year or not not as nice.
Speaker 1: What's your current temperature today?
Speaker 4: Oh, it's actually really nice. I was outside earlier with
Speaker 4: the dogs out, and.
Speaker 5: I do some jumping jacks to wake up myself pretty
Speaker 5: for the podcast and be around ten degrees.
Speaker 4: So it's actually very pleasant compared to Yeah, funny we
Speaker 4: were close to a week ago.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's balmy.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 1: So Cloud I'm gonna mess up with the name. Dammit,
Speaker 1: sorry about that. Cloud wargames dot Com tell us a
Speaker 1: little bit about that.
Speaker 5: Don't feel bad about messing up the games. I keep
Speaker 5: calling it cloud watch games because the cloudwashed all day
Speaker 5: long if you had signers on web services and uh,
Speaker 5: you know with cloud war games. Yeah, so this goes
Speaker 5: back a little bit, if you don't mind me going back.
Speaker 4: I had a team I was running.
Speaker 5: I think I had like eleven people on staff, and
Speaker 5: I needed to come up with the training idea of.
Speaker 4: Project for that. So I've come up with a couple of.
Speaker 5: Different games over the years and different tools to help
Speaker 5: out my devs. And so one of them was the
Speaker 5: predecessor to cloud board games, which is where I would
Speaker 5: take awayboard and draw network mathlets like you know, and
Speaker 5: so I would I would do with this Dungeons and Dragon.
Speaker 4: Style game with them, and what.
Speaker 5: I did size just straight and down all these different
Speaker 5: points as I had hundreds of scenarios of things that
Speaker 5: had gone horribly wrong over the years that I would
Speaker 5: then throw at them, and I'd say something like, yeah,
Speaker 5: give them a brief, which would be like all of
Speaker 5: a sudden, your website's timing out, you know, was that,
Speaker 5: and they'd have to walk through and tell me how
Speaker 5: they wanted to solve it. And so this one, in
Speaker 5: this case a security group switch. Somebody removed a security
Speaker 5: group which is basically a firewall rule from one of
Speaker 5: the various instances or resources running there and started to
Speaker 5: time out. So I've got all these other ones incident
Speaker 5: cannot deploy, and so it's you know, you don't get
Speaker 5: a lot of information.
Speaker 4: A lot of times when people come to you saying there's.
Speaker 5: A problem at the time as customer service person saying,
Speaker 5: our guys, you know, our shopping cart is disappearing randomly
Speaker 5: for our e commerce store, like people all of a sudden
Speaker 5: the shopping cars empty. Uh you know, So using that
Speaker 5: and just their wits and and we would just walked
Speaker 5: through it as if I was a dungeon master, and
Speaker 5: it was a pretty good training tool. You could really
Speaker 5: figure out who was, you know, thinking outside the box,
Speaker 5: who was like really analytical or who just kind of I.
Speaker 4: Don't know, you know. It turned to be a great
Speaker 4: sales tool as well. You go off the client through this,
Speaker 4: They're like.
Speaker 5: That can go wrong, That's like, like that can happen.
Speaker 4: You're like, yeah, I can. What would you do?
Speaker 5: I don't know. I guess I'd call you all right.
Speaker 5: So that is how it started.
Speaker 4: Then. Uh literally the last Thursday.
Speaker 5: I was on a Mastermind group and I was talking
Speaker 5: about some goals I got. I was going to launch
Speaker 5: a community for people to want to learn at US.
Speaker 5: And I was telling them about my idea for war games,
Speaker 5: which is where we spin up actual infrastructure, a database
Speaker 5: infrastructure because we got infrastructures code.
Speaker 4: It's not like I have to mangle you.
Speaker 5: It's like to spin it up and then I basically
Speaker 5: knock down a part of it, or fill up the database,
Speaker 5: or remove the security groups, you know something or gid
Speaker 5: us attack myself at the front of it. And then
Speaker 5: people will the participants that hot seat participants, which people
Speaker 5: with their cameras on ideally will be sitting there and
Speaker 5: they'll be like, hey, they'll they'll they they'll try and
Speaker 5: fix it, you know. And there's a couple of different variables.
Speaker 5: I'm gonna I've got a beginner, intermediate, and advance. Like
Speaker 5: the beginner one maybe they would just talk to me
Speaker 5: and I'll fix it on my computer screen. The advanced ones,
Speaker 5: I'll give them the actual AWUS keys and say here.
Speaker 4: You go, go ahead and fix it.
Speaker 5: And so there's just a yeah, I'm trying to make
Speaker 5: it available to all ages. So I'm getting creative with it.
Speaker 5: But yeah, that was the of oh yeah, it's Friday.
Speaker 5: I bought the domain cloudmoregame dot com and then I
Speaker 5: set it up and sent out a mailing list to
Speaker 5: it by easily underd subscribers, and I had the biggest
Speaker 5: reaction I've ever seen. I've got people signing up coming
Speaker 5: out of the look where I had no idea who
Speaker 5: they are, and then I you know, you guys, and
Speaker 5: then you guys are like you want to be on
Speaker 5: so here I am five days later and uh, this
Speaker 5: is it's going.
Speaker 3: Well, Well, I'm glad it's going, you know, so quickly
Speaker 3: for you, you know, to have a hundred different scenarios
Speaker 3: that must have taken quite a long time. Like I'm
Speaker 3: just thinking back throughout my career and like, I don't
Speaker 3: know if I could come up with like one hundred
Speaker 3: things that had gone wrong and have the whole I'm like,
Speaker 3: for sure more than one hundred things have gone wrong
Speaker 3: in my career. It's just you know, having remembered them
Speaker 3: and where I've written them down like that must have
Speaker 3: taken some effort on your part.
Speaker 5: I am a compulsive I mean I showed you guys
Speaker 5: in the previam I am a compulsive note taker and
Speaker 5: journaler and whatnot.
Speaker 4: I actually had multiple journals.
Speaker 5: And a journalists side on that journal here, journal there,
Speaker 5: business notebooks.
Speaker 4: So I piece it together.
Speaker 5: And you know, if I'm not if I write it
Speaker 5: down another scenario, if something goes wrong, I also make
Speaker 5: a comic about it.
Speaker 4: Sometimes, so.
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, you shared some of your comics with us
Speaker 1: when we were emailing back and forth. Is that are
Speaker 1: theose something you publish regularly?
Speaker 4: I try and do them.
Speaker 5: I was doing them twice a week, but now that
Speaker 5: my content schedule has changed, I'm doing more video content
Speaker 5: publicly again, I'm probably only.
Speaker 4: Going to do once a week. But we'll see.
Speaker 3: That's still a lot. That's you know, fifty two a year.
Speaker 3: That's still a lot of content.
Speaker 4: I'll be honest.
Speaker 5: They're not all bangers, but some of them take Yeah,
Speaker 5: I printed out this was the first one that broke
Speaker 5: a hundred thousand.
Speaker 4: Views on Reddit, soo I was. I was pretty happy
Speaker 4: about that. This one was a banger too. But don't
Speaker 4: get the coffee cut yet. I got to work out
Speaker 4: the details and those.
Speaker 3: R Do you find that through through your I mean
Speaker 3: capting journals of all of the different scenarios and what
Speaker 3: had happened, what went wrong, and how it was fixed, Like,
Speaker 3: did that have a beneficial impact for your career? Did
Speaker 3: you just find that you are able to consume that
Speaker 3: information now to make the cloud war games?
Speaker 5: I mean I had thought and this this idea. I
Speaker 5: thought about coming back to you for a long time. So
Speaker 5: I have been keeping a lot of times now. I mean,
Speaker 5: I will just write a deal to time deal with emailing.
Speaker 5: Listen if there's something that goes wrong or something I
Speaker 5: hear about. There's one that I want to really run
Speaker 5: a center through the S three ransomware attackers out there.
Speaker 5: Right now, I'm gonna I'm gonna attack myself with that
Speaker 5: and that should be fun. But yeah, I write it
Speaker 5: down and and nail it out, you know people. So now, yeah,
Speaker 5: I guess collecting all that data has been helpful. I
Speaker 5: mean the last year I've been better. I hired a
Speaker 5: business coas and have been better at sharing that information,
Speaker 5: you know, before I write it down just because I
Speaker 5: pecically take notes. And then now it's like I'm actually
Speaker 5: finding and helping other people get up based on Amazon,
Speaker 5: you get up there, you know, on things I'm an
Speaker 5: expert and I enjoy doing so. Yes, I think it's
Speaker 5: kind of beneficial impact that I didn't really capitalize on
Speaker 5: that and self care of that recently.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean the fact you just mentioned this, like,
Speaker 3: I can't believe I haven't been keeping track of every
Speaker 3: single bug that I run into that as some sort
Speaker 3: of you know, owt as it turns out, you know,
Speaker 3: and then a story because I feel like there is
Speaker 3: some novel, interesting thing there that is worth sharing. And
Speaker 3: now I'm starting to think, like would I give this
Speaker 3: advice to even experience senior engineers, Like, oh, you know what,
Speaker 3: like start keeping a personal journal of these sorts of things.
Speaker 3: I mean I usually talk about in business context, like
Speaker 3: it's great to keep track of what you're doing from
Speaker 3: like a brag standpoint, so that you can report on
Speaker 3: it during your hopefully quarterly performance evaluation. Like you have
Speaker 3: a list already of everything you've done, and I think
Speaker 3: there's a lot to be said there. But I think
Speaker 3: there's another level of like the interesting technical challenges that
Speaker 3: you had to face and how you sort of tackle them,
Speaker 3: because like you've already found a new opportunity based off
Speaker 3: of what you've written down to you know, turn into
Speaker 3: a business.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 5: I mean, it's a good habit to do after action reports,
Speaker 5: especially when you're training in a junior or something like that.
Speaker 5: You know they make mistake, you know, a fairly expensive mistake.
Speaker 4: Maybe you know they.
Speaker 5: Delete something they shouldn't, and then you've got two options.
Speaker 5: You could slap on the risk and say you know
Speaker 5: you're in trouble, get it, or you say.
Speaker 4: What did you learn from this?
Speaker 5: We just you know, say I got a client, you know,
Speaker 5: their website goes down, and say it costs some one
Speaker 5: hundred thousand dollars an hour. Junior takes down that website
Speaker 5: for a while and they can look at it like,
Speaker 5: oh my god, we've lost all this money. Or you
Speaker 5: just say, oh, we invested this much into our junior
Speaker 5: running important lesson. Let's have them present that in and
Speaker 5: after action.
Speaker 4: Report to the whole team. So we've got you know,
Speaker 4: there's a positive from it.
Speaker 5: Here's you're writing the SOPs for the business standard operating
Speaker 5: tenders for the business.
Speaker 4: I don't know what not to do.
Speaker 5: You know, sm I try and push towards my developers.
Speaker 5: No fail forward faster, no where to fail at where
Speaker 5: you can make mistage at, you know, fail on stage,
Speaker 5: nuke staging out of the water and slow down our
Speaker 5: dev for a day, pretty our identity for a day.
Speaker 5: It still costs us less than if you knew production
Speaker 5: for even a few minutes.
Speaker 4: You know, So learn where to fail, learn how to fail.
Speaker 4: And so this is one of those ranks that you're
Speaker 4: working out.
Speaker 1: I want to come back to something. There's been a
Speaker 1: couple of things you've said that have stood out to me,
Speaker 1: and I want to come back to those, even though
Speaker 1: they have nothing to do with Cloudwardgames dot Com. You
Speaker 1: mentioned that you're in a Mastermind and then you also
Speaker 1: talked about your journaling, and those are two of like
Speaker 1: the consistent things that like, if you study like high impact,
Speaker 1: high performing people, like those two things come up over
Speaker 1: and over again. So how did you get into a
Speaker 1: Mastermind and what does that look like for you?
Speaker 5: I'm actually in several and we can do a whole
Speaker 5: other podcasts and consulting side of things, instruction in your business,
Speaker 5: which I'm gonna save for another time, but there's one
Speaker 5: where I am a group coaching where they do live
Speaker 5: q and a's and stuff like that aimed at solo consultants,
Speaker 5: expertise people who want to put themselves as expert. And
Speaker 5: I would never call myself the expert, but I've been
Speaker 5: doing this a long time, so that's a good one.
Speaker 5: I had direct access to the main community guy there.
Speaker 5: And the other one is the room of around Robin Approach,
Speaker 5: where I found that one, I think through another community,
Speaker 5: a third community where it's actually got very limited interaction,
Speaker 5: but they do things and I can give you.
Speaker 4: As the name of some of the stuff if you
Speaker 4: want later.
Speaker 5: But I'm actually starting, I'm hoping to start another Mastermind group,
Speaker 5: but I kind of deprioritize.
Speaker 4: That for CTO for Cloud of Organcy. Now I don't
Speaker 4: even remember the name of because that's that's got a
Speaker 4: lot of trash right now.
Speaker 5: But I would strongly advise that, especially if you're going
Speaker 5: out there and starting on your own and you're not
Speaker 5: part of the big team, you're starting your own consulting,
Speaker 5: you need.
Speaker 4: That sounding board.
Speaker 5: I'm very fortunate to have a informal business partner that
Speaker 5: we have just we are always bouncing ideas of each other,
Speaker 5: because it could be, you know, in the vacuum when
Speaker 5: you're trying to get clients, it can be you know,
Speaker 5: very daunting, seem very dark.
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, I belong to a Mastermind that I've
Speaker 1: been in for well over ten years now, and it's
Speaker 1: been it's been the difference in my career because, like
Speaker 1: our sole purpose in that group is to call each
Speaker 1: other out on our bullshit and hold each other accountable
Speaker 1: and it's made a difference.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: We actually we actually do a full episode dedicated to
Speaker 3: Will being called out on as bullshit.
Speaker 1: I mean, because there's a lot of it. Like those
Speaker 1: guys in My Mastermind, they have a full time job
Speaker 1: calling me out on my bullshit.
Speaker 5: Yeah. My most valuable people are the people.
Speaker 4: That have blunts us with me, you know, willing to
Speaker 4: be like stop building developer tools, you're fool.
Speaker 3: And giving them away for free. I think that's the
Speaker 3: important caveat there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so for sure. And then on journaling, is that
Speaker 1: a daily exercise for you?
Speaker 4: Yeah? Let the dogs out and then it's pretty much
Speaker 4: straight to journaling.
Speaker 5: And then I've recently been trying to do more journaling
Speaker 5: in the evening actually.
Speaker 4: The close of the thought.
Speaker 5: I have a lot of trouble sleeping, and I wake
Speaker 5: up in the night and I'm like, all these things
Speaker 5: I should do, so right forward to bed. I try
Speaker 5: and write down anything that's that's open ended here and
Speaker 5: on theece of paper, and I got sticky nuts inside
Speaker 5: of the bed. They're like right up to do to
Speaker 5: do to do it that way, like okay tomorrow and Matt,
Speaker 5: we'll get to this. I don't have to be thinking
Speaker 5: about it. Let's me sleeps. It's a very strong tool
Speaker 5: for me.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I think there were a non trivial number of times
Speaker 3: where in order to sleep well at night, I had
Speaker 3: to write up a whole email regarding a situation and
Speaker 3: then just not send it. That's the important factor there. Yeah,
Speaker 3: for sure, when when you're when when you're frustrated, definitely
Speaker 3: don't click said.
Speaker 2: But you know, it's because those those thoughts are.
Speaker 3: Going around in your head, and it's like I'm constantly
Speaker 3: focused on whatever that is, whatever problem it is, whether
Speaker 3: or not I did the right thing in that situation,
Speaker 3: and sometimes just I mean I know from a fact
Speaker 3: now I have to terminate those threads, whatever the thread
Speaker 3: is that I picked up and I started just getting
Speaker 3: it done, whether it's writing an email.
Speaker 2: I use like every single kind.
Speaker 3: Of scheduling tool available, Like I will delay emails to myself,
Speaker 3: I will snooze them, I will send myself future emails.
Speaker 3: I'll use calendar events, anything to get stuff off of
Speaker 3: my radar and into some sort of temporal delay so
Speaker 3: that can come back to it later when I like
Speaker 3: at the right time.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's a big one.
Speaker 5: I talk about you frustrated and you write that email
Speaker 5: when I get frustrated with something or possibly even a
Speaker 5: Kylie or something like that right under stick, you.
Speaker 4: Know, and a month later it's a comic. So I
Speaker 4: just you know, that's how I.
Speaker 5: Don't send it to them necessarily unless it's funny.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's great.
Speaker 4: Right on.
Speaker 1: So cloud We'll come back to cloud Board Games. You've
Speaker 1: got people signing up for it. Is it like, uh,
Speaker 1: are you operating it like scheduled head to head matches
Speaker 1: or is it a single player experience? What's the interface
Speaker 1: look like?
Speaker 5: I like to do it with small teams, So I'm
Speaker 5: thinking right now, we've got four.
Speaker 4: People in the hot seat.
Speaker 5: We're going to experiment with our initial match. So that
Speaker 5: means they've got two events. Four people could be on camera.
Speaker 5: You know, MIC's hot and well hopefully anybody else that
Speaker 5: wants to be in the weightlist or whatever the gallery.
Speaker 5: They can chat quietly. But like I said, there's I'm
Speaker 5: going to do three tiers of it, and in the
Speaker 5: future I might do four people sign up for Big Dinner,
Speaker 5: four people sign up for Intermediate, four people sign up for.
Speaker 4: Advance or something.
Speaker 5: But you can kind of just hang around if you
Speaker 5: did the beginner one, and you can listen.
Speaker 4: To the intermediate and the advance, but.
Speaker 5: I don't want the advanced people solving the intermediate one
Speaker 5: instantly there. And so the way I do it is
Speaker 5: there'll be a pre kind of let's just say it's
Speaker 5: an hour long session.
Speaker 4: First fifteen minutes. You can get in there, you get your pairings,
Speaker 4: you can I'll.
Speaker 5: Send out network diagrams using my pixelert network diagram software
Speaker 5: that I use for my YouTube videos and ahead of time,
Speaker 5: and I'll set up the terraform ahead of time, so
Speaker 5: then people can get a feel for that.
Speaker 4: But then we get in there, maybe you set up
Speaker 4: your dashboards.
Speaker 5: You know, you figure out your firefighting tools for the
Speaker 5: first fifteen minutes, and then I do the brief and
Speaker 5: I say, Customer service just called and said, you know
Speaker 5: that we just sent out this is actually this is
Speaker 5: probably my first one, so preview for those of you guys,
Speaker 5: I don't know when this is coming out, but pre
Speaker 5: view for the first advanced one. Customer Service shows up
Speaker 5: and says, we just sent out a lot of emails
Speaker 5: from our primary email address that people will get and
Speaker 5: it's for a pharmaceutical add of some nature it's.
Speaker 4: Like that, and we don't do that. So what just happened?
Speaker 5: So and that happened to me? That did happen to me,
Speaker 5: and it also has account, so you know. And then
Speaker 5: after that, let's just say fifteen minutes to half an
Speaker 5: hour diagnosing, So you got to do diagnosis first.
Speaker 4: And then from there they got to come up with
Speaker 4: a solution.
Speaker 5: And I'm going to give re access to my aw's
Speaker 5: account to anybody on there, but I'm not going to
Speaker 5: give you a right.
Speaker 4: Access, So you get to tell me the solution. I'm
Speaker 4: not never hearing anybody else right access to that.
Speaker 5: And then from there, last fifteen minutes after action report,
Speaker 5: you know, I kind of get them peeped by the scene.
Speaker 4: What did I do?
Speaker 5: And how could you have improved the speed at which.
Speaker 4: You diagnosed the situation?
Speaker 1: So, oh, that's cool, that's cool. Are you recording these
Speaker 1: for like a dish, like creating a YouTube channel where
Speaker 1: people can watch it after the fact.
Speaker 5: Yes, I mean, one thing I thought about is that
Speaker 5: one part of the needless thing is that there are
Speaker 5: so many AI generated resumes out there. It's tough for
Speaker 5: people software engineers, DevOps people to stand out and that's
Speaker 5: that resumes.
Speaker 4: Also, so many people using AI codd.
Speaker 5: And I'm not against that, but you know, the coding
Speaker 5: standard coding tests don't work so well. So this I
Speaker 5: want them to record it, and I want them to
Speaker 5: share that, be able to share this with perspective hiring people.
Speaker 5: On the other side of this, if you're hiring people,
Speaker 5: do you know that they're actually able to problem solve?
Speaker 4: Don't you want to kind of get a feel for it.
Speaker 5: Don't you want to see if they are collaborative in
Speaker 5: nature or they're more like I'm going to just go
Speaker 5: heads down and not tell anybody.
Speaker 4: Who I'm thinking, you know, you you you want to
Speaker 4: get a feel for that.
Speaker 5: Maybe there's you know, there's you want one to the other.
Speaker 4: But this could be a really powerful hire tool.
Speaker 1: I think, oh yeah for sure. Yeah yeah, because then
Speaker 1: you get like a little insight into what this what
Speaker 1: it's like to work with this person under pressure, which
Speaker 1: is everything that you want to know before hiring a person,
Speaker 1: but have no way to test it.
Speaker 4: Well.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and then the flip side, it's a great way
Speaker 5: to inoculate yourself to stress. I see so many developers
Speaker 5: and the you know, the the CEO comes running in saying.
Speaker 4: We're losing money.
Speaker 5: We're losing money, and they're screaming and everything, and they're
Speaker 5: just like, oh, they lock up, you know, And this
Speaker 5: evacuated from the stress.
Speaker 4: You know we talked about.
Speaker 5: I mean, back to my gymastics career. I'm pretty good
Speaker 5: at dealing with this type of stress because in my
Speaker 5: gymnastics career, if you're spotting somebody and you mess up
Speaker 5: that you could significantly injure or harm an athlete. You
Speaker 5: know this, some rich guy loses a bunch of money,
Speaker 5: but no one dies. And so if you put that
Speaker 5: in that perspective, it makes it easier to handle the
Speaker 5: stressing situation.
Speaker 3: I mean, sure, there's not a lot of opportunity to
Speaker 3: practice emergency situations in yeah, attack right, and so the
Speaker 3: only time we're in that situation is when we really
Speaker 3: mess up. I mean, some companies do, like, there is
Speaker 3: this idea in the industry, oh, you should, you know,
Speaker 3: practice your run books, you know, databases being down, genal failures,
Speaker 3: et cetera. But I think that a majority of companies,
Speaker 3: the ones who need to practice at the most because
Speaker 3: they're too much in fire fighting modes, are exactly the
Speaker 3: ones who don't practice it. Yeah, so I mean this
Speaker 3: this could be more than just a hiring tool. Realistically,
Speaker 3: this could be like out of band practice for engineers
Speaker 3: at any company to sign up and be like, hey,
Speaker 3: you know, go through this equivalent you know, live training, right,
Speaker 3: continue education on how to do these things. Uh, you know,
Speaker 3: how are you going to respond in that situation and
Speaker 3: then potentially be graded or get opportunity like feedback on
Speaker 3: how they can improve.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean I could.
Speaker 5: I'd see myself being bringing this into a large company
Speaker 5: and then looking at their infrastructure, setting up a drill
Speaker 5: similar to their infrastructure and knocking it over and doing
Speaker 5: trainings internally. I mean there's there's all sources of options.
Speaker 5: I mean back to the kind of individual side. I'd
Speaker 5: love to have a leader board and championships eventually. I've
Speaker 5: got ideas for all sorts of fun stuff to do.
Speaker 5: But yeah, there's I think there's a lot it can
Speaker 5: be done.
Speaker 1: It could be like the next next iteration of like
Speaker 1: e gaming, like the professional gamers.
Speaker 5: Yeah, you're actually not just I am a gamer obviously,
Speaker 5: but you know, a little more productive than just beforetnite. Yeah,
Speaker 5: so I think I saw will you're you run across.
Speaker 5: But I can see the Crossted games for you know,
Speaker 5: opspeakle for infrastructure people.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, for sure.
Speaker 4: But let it.
Speaker 3: I'm sure no one ever heard me say this before.
Speaker 2: But you know, what I'm done with work.
Speaker 3: What I want to do is go home and play
Speaker 3: another game, Like play a game that's exactly the same
Speaker 3: as what I do for work every day, you know,
Speaker 3: with with with high higher stakes potentially than what I'm
Speaker 3: doing at work.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's I'm hoping people do.
Speaker 4: That so far. I mean, like people are interested.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's to be great.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think it's like, well, I'm going to
Speaker 1: make that a little stronger statement. I don't think. I
Speaker 1: know that there are a lot of people who are
Speaker 1: early in their career and DevOps is one of those
Speaker 1: industries that it's so hard to get into because you
Speaker 1: can't get into DevOps without having DevOps experience, and you
Speaker 1: can't get DevOps experience without working in DevOps. And this
Speaker 1: actually gives you a way to solve that problem.
Speaker 5: As this Thursday's comic by the way, you have to
Speaker 5: have five years of experience for the century level job
Speaker 5: or whatever.
Speaker 4: How do you chick that egg?
Speaker 5: This might solve that problem though.
Speaker 3: You know, yeah, I mean, I think that's sort of
Speaker 3: the same thing though, where like people don't leave the
Speaker 3: university and go directly into executive role where realistically part
Speaker 3: of I think one of the most important aspects of
Speaker 3: DevOps and sort of understanding the connection of the business
Speaker 3: and what you're trying to execute and running it and
Speaker 3: how that impacts the technology and what it actually means
Speaker 3: for uptime and providing that as a value add.
Speaker 2: To whoever your users or customers are.
Speaker 3: And I think, you know, one of the huge challenges
Speaker 3: there is that's just not really something you're taught in
Speaker 3: any level of education system. Like you don't go to
Speaker 3: your chemistry class or your physics or you know, calculus
Speaker 3: and be taught about how that provides value to end
Speaker 3: users somewhere and how critical that is. I mean, because
Speaker 3: if you were, then you could sort of maybe make
Speaker 3: the jump there. But I feel like that's one of
Speaker 3: the biggest things, the lack of experience, but also the
Speaker 3: lack of attention to how to utilize those skills.
Speaker 2: In a real world environment.
Speaker 3: And I think that like the email sent out that
Speaker 3: has a business impact starts to get like scratch that
Speaker 3: it's not just that there's an emergency situation. It could
Speaker 3: just be about a debugging experience, like how did this happen?
Speaker 3: But understanding that there is a real impact to real
Speaker 3: custom somewhere that someone will care and money.
Speaker 2: Is getting lost.
Speaker 3: I think that's the sort of thing that a lot
Speaker 3: of people are insulated throughout their academic career.
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's the I see engineers making a lot of
Speaker 5: decisions based on ones and zeros and not dollars and cents.
Speaker 5: I like that tagline. Yeah, I see it happen, and
Speaker 5: as a business owner, I have to take them into
Speaker 5: account the bottom line. Recently, I had a major outage
Speaker 5: for one of my clients right before the holiday season,
Speaker 5: and we had a triage. We actually had to decide
Speaker 5: to have a bunch of different domains. Kind of it's
Speaker 5: not Copra, PEPs or anything, but think about how like
Speaker 5: PEPSI owns Mountain Dew and it owns KFC or whatever,
Speaker 5: it owns Taco Bebble, one of those mister PIB was down,
Speaker 5: you know, was causing this to the traffics. Mister pip
Speaker 5: was causing every other site to have problems that rippled
Speaker 5: across the whole system, and we had the triage that say, listen,
Speaker 5: we don't sell that much, mister pid shut it down.
Speaker 5: We don't care, you know, so you've got to It's
Speaker 5: it's interesting they'd do that in real time.
Speaker 4: While firefighting that that was a pretty exciting day.
Speaker 5: But same type of concept I see with the open
Speaker 5: source software where versus paying Amazon. If you're a big company,
Speaker 5: you've got thousands of people and you can save millions
Speaker 5: of dollars, it makes sense to host your own cluster
Speaker 5: of xyz. But if you're a smaller company and you
Speaker 5: forget the engineers forgetting that, oh yeah, my man hours
Speaker 5: are being wasted maintaining this thing and we're only getting
Speaker 5: an ROI of one third of what my man hours
Speaker 5: are spent. You know what they're paying me to maintain
Speaker 5: this cluster, then what are we doing it for you?
Speaker 5: So that's that's a very important skill that Yeah, you're
Speaker 5: a don't teach in school.
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. I think it's something I've said on
Speaker 1: this podcast that at least a billion times, like no
Speaker 1: company cares about how tight and compact and efficient doctor
Speaker 1: file is, and because they only care about what value
Speaker 1: it's providing to the customers who are paying money to
Speaker 1: that business. And I think that's the biggest career advice
Speaker 1: anyone in this industry can learn, is your technical skills
Speaker 1: are a tool used by the business. They're not the product.
Speaker 5: And to be clear, I'm not saying there's one right
Speaker 5: answer for the other. You've got to take into account
Speaker 5: the bigger picture and say, you know, we're a company
Speaker 5: this size.
Speaker 4: You know, how much time should I be spending on
Speaker 4: this or is that moving the needle for the company?
Speaker 5: You know, because you always got to pick what you
Speaker 5: know it is important there So sorry I didn't interrupt you.
Speaker 4: No, I was done. That was it.
Speaker 2: I mean, I think this goes in another direction as well.
Speaker 3: And I'm sort of curious your perspective, Matt, is that
Speaker 3: right now? I know there's a allegedly the job economy
Speaker 3: is not great for knowledge workers, and I am I'm
Speaker 3: curious if you see particular opportunities in some way or
Speaker 3: really like, how do you stand out? What what are
Speaker 3: there particular things that do help engineers in this area
Speaker 3: or throughout the industry stand out compared to you know,
Speaker 3: we talked about AI generated resumes or you know, other
Speaker 3: aspects that they could really lay on any any thoughts
Speaker 3: on that.
Speaker 5: Yes, tons, The first thing is that with I'm actively
Speaker 5: talking to several companies that are creating large language model
Speaker 5: lllms to basically replace meat and my designs so they
Speaker 5: can just put in words and then it's spits up
Speaker 5: terra form and it goes There's they're not there yet,
Speaker 5: They're a long way from it be able to maintain it,
Speaker 5: but they'll get there. So that means I'm out. That's
Speaker 5: my whole job there. But just like elevator operators back
Speaker 5: in the day, when's the last time you saw an
Speaker 5: elevator operator?
Speaker 4: I think quite some time?
Speaker 5: You know, So that who wants to stand in a
Speaker 5: hot box people's you know, inclosed space like that, especially
Speaker 5: after COVID and everything.
Speaker 4: Oh my gosh.
Speaker 5: You know, so you no nowhere elevator operators, but they
Speaker 5: need engineers to maintain those things.
Speaker 4: You know, you don't those things fall apart. That could
Speaker 4: be real bad for you.
Speaker 5: So you've got to evolve. That's something that I can't
Speaker 5: emphasize enough is to evolve and change your skills, you know,
Speaker 5: holding on to that position like Okay, I'm going to
Speaker 5: be there one typing in the code at the CSS
Speaker 5: or pixel push and you're like, no, you want to
Speaker 5: be a step above that and you want to find
Speaker 5: that next step. So things I do to stand out,
Speaker 5: I mean, I make sure they see my face. I
Speaker 5: do a ton of content on stuff I try, and
Speaker 5: you know, basically, I mean, I'll be honest with my content.
Speaker 5: Sometimes I'm just reading in the news and that way
Speaker 5: they see my face and they could recognize me there.
Speaker 5: But that's something I personally had to get over. I'm
Speaker 5: an introvert. Oddly enough, I probably don't see it, but
Speaker 5: I introvert by nature, extrovert by necessity. So you know,
Speaker 5: don't be afraid to make videos about stuff. Some of
Speaker 5: my videos, one of my videos from As Always Bugs
Speaker 5: with Me, I did a video where I was trilaborating
Speaker 5: Wi Fi signals in between projects to track down printers
Speaker 5: and different things, just because I was bored out of
Speaker 5: my mind, and I put it on YouTube and it's
Speaker 5: still one of my most popular videos. And I don't
Speaker 5: do that and I have no cap so stuff like that,
Speaker 5: you know, the communication, that's a huge skill.
Speaker 4: You need it.
Speaker 5: I mean, even if you're typing into an LLM, some
Speaker 5: guy in a suit is gonna come up and say hey,
Speaker 5: we need this bigger picture thing, and then you can
Speaker 5: sure go ahead type of army of lms and have
Speaker 5: it generated. But they can't do that prompt. There's values
Speaker 5: to you doing that. So find a way to bridge
Speaker 5: that gap between human and machine. It's just we're just
Speaker 5: changing the way that works, you know. So find ways
Speaker 5: to add value to other people. And that's one thing
Speaker 5: I obsess over my clients. It's like, I'll help my
Speaker 5: clients like source other developers. Now that this tool here,
Speaker 5: my winners, I'm going to send rades to my clients
Speaker 5: like you need a guy.
Speaker 4: You know, I'm a girl that need a person. Whatever.
Speaker 5: Here you go, this is this one just won, This
Speaker 5: one solved my puzzle and two second and flat.
Speaker 4: So yeah, that's what I would do.
Speaker 5: Communicate, that's it, you know, you give them a wise
Speaker 5: service there and don't communicate the same way everybody else's
Speaker 5: There's a reason I use pixelart everywhere.
Speaker 4: People remember, I love my client's death.
Speaker 5: They gained as kids, you know, we're the perfectations of
Speaker 5: the games of kids. They remember, you know, Mario pros
Speaker 5: and so they see that and they remember, so standout
Speaker 5: and and and communicate quite a bit.
Speaker 3: I love the perspective on spend some time creating content
Speaker 3: because you know, it really does resonate with the there's
Speaker 3: only so much you can do of practicing lead code
Speaker 3: interviews or learning a new programming language, but you know,
Speaker 3: really take that next step of doing literally anything else.
Speaker 3: You know, if everyone's focusing on tech, focus on creating
Speaker 3: content or making some artwork or you know, using l
Speaker 3: MS or whatnot, or hand drawn or you know, making comics,
Speaker 3: because that is some way that you can really stand
Speaker 3: out you can put on your resume. Oh yeah, and
Speaker 3: also all of these are me, right, you know, this
Speaker 3: is something about me that really stands out that's unique
Speaker 3: for who I am compared to everyone else who's trying
Speaker 3: to compete for the same job. I think right now
Speaker 3: it's it's I think this is always true. It's always
Speaker 3: now is the best time to say, even start your
Speaker 3: own company. I see like a lot of resumes are
Speaker 3: like practice projects by engineers who are interested, like, oh
Speaker 3: I made a recommendation engine or I made this other thing.
Speaker 3: And the most important question I always ask is why
Speaker 3: did you do that? Like what was your end goal here?
Speaker 3: And it's like, oh, I just wanted to do a project.
Speaker 2: I'm like, Okay, well that doesn't really mean anything to me.
Speaker 3: You had no bounds, no restrictions, no constraints on what
Speaker 3: you were doing. You just went wherever you felt like it.
Speaker 3: What's way more interesting is, oh, I was actually trying
Speaker 3: to make a business, or I was actually trying to
Speaker 3: automate my my pictures being uploaded to LinkedIn or whatever,
Speaker 3: and like I had a real problem that I actually
Speaker 3: needed to solve, and this is how I went about
Speaker 3: solving it. That's a way more interesting thing to hear
Speaker 3: as a potential interviewer. So you know, the content's great,
Speaker 3: the webcomics are great. You know, anything that really makes
Speaker 3: you stand out as an individual.
Speaker 5: Yeah, Another thing that pops into mind is he here
Speaker 5: the t skill set.
Speaker 4: You know, you don't want to be a generalist. You know,
Speaker 4: if you can.
Speaker 5: Find a niche, a niche that's in demand, you know,
Speaker 5: then the volks and I think my aws.
Speaker 4: Niche for my consulting businesses too wide.
Speaker 5: I'm trying to figure out how to like zero that
Speaker 5: and like maybe I'm just going to do whaff you know,
Speaker 5: or now they've got these trainings, I'm probably going to
Speaker 5: focus on that.
Speaker 4: But you know, I was thinking.
Speaker 5: About just being the WHAFT command or web application firewall.
Speaker 4: Can I fight d DOS attacks all day long?
Speaker 5: And I could do a whole course on that, and
Speaker 5: Weld teach a whole course on that. So but yeah,
Speaker 5: find a niche that's in demand and dive in. And
Speaker 5: I've got a discord full of hotepodge of brand developers
Speaker 5: and they had these really cool projects, but they that
Speaker 5: are niche and they just don't showcase them.
Speaker 4: They tell you about it in Texas like.
Speaker 5: Yeah, cameras everywhere your computer, you can grow the screen
Speaker 5: just screen recorded and show this cool project, you know,
Speaker 5: off as much as you can.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's definitely we're moving from like a technical marketplace
Speaker 1: to a creator marketplace. And it's I think what both
Speaker 1: of you are saying really highlights that. It's that the
Speaker 1: technical skills are the foundation, but then as the creator,
Speaker 1: you have to to showcase and and market those to
Speaker 1: make you stand out and then identify like here's the
Speaker 1: thing that I do. Like on the te like you've
Speaker 1: got the top line of the tea here where everyone
Speaker 1: has the same skill set, and then here's where I
Speaker 1: go deep.
Speaker 5: M Yeah, I'm not saying don't you know, don't learn
Speaker 5: things outside your purview, but don't make that your public
Speaker 5: facing persona.
Speaker 4: You know, you I know how to do a lot
Speaker 4: of things. I could do.
Speaker 5: Word press anybody ever, but you know, stay with I publicly.
Speaker 5: I have very particular thing I talk about, you know,
Speaker 5: And you've got a very short amount of time to
Speaker 5: get people's attention right now with you know, all the
Speaker 5: spam and garbage out there. So you've got to figure
Speaker 5: out a way to do that very quickly, and and
Speaker 5: find people that have your problem, not everybody. You know,
Speaker 5: I solve a million dollar problems for some of my clients.
Speaker 5: Not everybody has those problems. You've got to find the
Speaker 5: people that have the that you are the ass into
Speaker 5: their headche you know. So so yeah, be very aware
Speaker 5: and don't just cast a wide and that and try
Speaker 5: and pitch to everybody. Find the businesses that are suffering
Speaker 5: from your stuff. I mean, I've got criteria that I
Speaker 5: use for lead gien where they are the running at
Speaker 5: as great. You know, I have a very specific size requirement.
Speaker 5: I don't want to be too big. I've got an
Speaker 5: HR department. You're probably bigger than you don't need me.
Speaker 5: And then if you've gone down recently, then I'm talking
Speaker 5: to because you've you've got the pain you've like if
Speaker 5: your site's slowing down because you're growing too fast, I
Speaker 5: want to talk to you right away. You want to
Speaker 5: talk to me. So if you have that criteria, then
Speaker 5: it makes it so you're focus. You're not just you know,
Speaker 5: get being disheartened because you sent you know, a thousand
Speaker 5: resumes out to Glamo Joe. Is that you know it
Speaker 5: doesn't have you know, doesn't have the need that you
Speaker 5: can scratch.
Speaker 4: You want to be like, this.
Speaker 5: Is your problem, this is my this is my expertise.
Speaker 5: This is how I can solve that problem. Is how
Speaker 5: I've solved it. Hunderd times case site. It's a big
Speaker 5: thing I'm working on. Issue is getting more cases on
Speaker 5: my website. Show how you how you solve that exact problem, right,
Speaker 5: put a coin and the I'm gonna keep going.
Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely, I know. I'm Now I'm gonna ask you
Speaker 3: another question, uh, like the sort of issues that you
Speaker 3: see come up for each of your customers and from
Speaker 3: your experience, do you feel like they are sort of
Speaker 3: repetitive in any way, like, oh, you've seen this problem
Speaker 3: before or do you see that some of these problems
Speaker 3: like they are actually nuanced and new in some way
Speaker 3: that you haven't experienced.
Speaker 4: Yes, and no.
Speaker 5: The the people problems I see, Uh, that pops up
Speaker 5: point a bit. So I don't do a lot of
Speaker 5: hands on work for my clients. I do advisory overside
Speaker 5: quite a bit. So they paired me with the project
Speaker 5: manager and they say, we've got this problem we want
Speaker 5: we want to scale up to this thing. I do
Speaker 5: a design and then I work with PM to hand
Speaker 5: that off to other people to do so I trained
Speaker 5: other people. I see a lot of people problems that
Speaker 5: are repetitive. The technology problem, yes, for nine times out
Speaker 5: of ten is.
Speaker 4: A security group problem. That's true.
Speaker 5: But with that said, past that, there's always new technologies.
Speaker 5: We're getting detossed in ways I've never seen before. It's
Speaker 5: it's quite fascinating. Actually, I got this, if you guys
Speaker 5: will indulge me, I've got one kind of more prop
Speaker 5: like the game that.
Speaker 4: You guys might find interesting. Real quickly.
Speaker 5: Sorry, I'm going to digitize this. I don't know the spinners.
Speaker 5: I've lost the spinner. Oh well, so you said you
Speaker 5: talk about the repetitive stuff. When I had some mid
Speaker 5: level junior devs. A lot of times they'd get stuck
Speaker 5: on things and they'd be like, I don't know what
Speaker 5: to do.
Speaker 4: I don't do they come up to me and and
Speaker 4: a lot of times it became repetitive.
Speaker 5: So so I took the top like ten or twenty things
Speaker 5: that I don't know.
Speaker 4: I mean, you think that.
Speaker 5: Happens, including chef the security group, you know. And I
Speaker 5: put a spinner on this thing, and I said, you can't.
Speaker 5: You can't bug me until you spun it at least,
Speaker 5: you know, I think I said three three times to
Speaker 5: try three different things on here, Like you got to
Speaker 5: tell me you've already checked the logs, you've already rt FM.
Speaker 5: I'm not going to explain that abbreviation, but yeah, add
Speaker 5: more logging, you know. So this is actually coming soon
Speaker 5: to h to cloud. At war games, they get stuck
Speaker 5: spin for the beginners take us away from the advanced people.
Speaker 2: So you've got to free spind you know, spend Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 5: A phone a friend as to ask your peer before
Speaker 5: you come asking me, like another junior might actually have
Speaker 5: this lead to work together collaborate.
Speaker 3: People and not just in the same company, you know,
Speaker 3: I find that, especially above the senior level. A lot
Speaker 3: of engineers haven't realized that they can go outside the
Speaker 3: company to solicit assistance, Like you don't need to pay someone,
Speaker 3: but there are communities out there that you can go to.
Speaker 3: And it's so ridiculous to me that at like SMBs,
Speaker 3: like small medium businesses, like not giant modelists, you know,
Speaker 3: the fang companies, et cetera. You know, at smaller sizes,
Speaker 3: you just don't have anyone that's more experienced than you
Speaker 3: and the company. You have no one to mentor you
Speaker 3: no one to sort of bounce ideas off of. And
Speaker 3: they're like, well what do I do? And I'm like, well,
Speaker 3: how many how many discord servers are you in? Like
Speaker 3: I'm like in thirty or forty or something like. There
Speaker 3: are those out there where people you know, are willing
Speaker 3: to provide assistance if you just ask the question publicly.
Speaker 3: And the idea that they're just not even they don't
Speaker 3: even see this as an opportunity is like, like really
Speaker 3: great additional source of valuable information that you're missing out on.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, as part of the reason I am
Speaker 5: starting a community for my niche is that there's there,
Speaker 5: absolutely people are you know, where do I go?
Speaker 4: Where do I go?
Speaker 5: I love that I've got these communities I can go
Speaker 5: to about my business and all the other stuff. But
Speaker 5: if you if you're an engineer and you know, for
Speaker 5: a smaller company at least, and you're running on Amazon, like,
Speaker 5: there's probably no one else that knows more than you
Speaker 5: and you need answers, and it's like, yeah, you can
Speaker 5: take a course, you know, or take a bunch of
Speaker 5: tests and get certified, but it's almost better to have
Speaker 5: that mastermind group, that community you can you bounce off.
Speaker 5: There's there's some additional value to it. So that's with
Speaker 5: all the AI going on, you can ask chat, youpt
Speaker 5: all day, you know, to have somebody else that actually
Speaker 5: breathes and has a pulse that understands your pain. Even
Speaker 5: sometimes if you just event to about like ah, it's
Speaker 5: the security group for one hundred times, why did I
Speaker 5: make that?
Speaker 4: I say again, you know, so I completely agree with you.
Speaker 5: I think that's a huge value matter if you if
Speaker 5: you're not in one of those, you know, I would
Speaker 5: strongly recommend it.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And it seems like cloud Ward Games is going
Speaker 1: to be like a foundation for helping you identify those
Speaker 1: groups because you get in, you start working with people
Speaker 1: that you don't know, and then you just start chatting
Speaker 1: from there. It looks like those are just going to
Speaker 1: naturally form as a result of this.
Speaker 4: I would love that.
Speaker 5: I hope, I hope there's some because you get some
Speaker 5: good relationships that are formed in foxholes.
Speaker 4: So to say you're in the fire there, it's like
Speaker 4: you know, if if someone.
Speaker 5: Cracks in the pressure, you know, but I've got some
Speaker 5: guys that I'm pretty tight with because we've splitted it out,
Speaker 5: you know, in bad times and you know that there's
Speaker 5: there's be amazed how quickly you forged those relationships.
Speaker 4: Sorry, hopefully the audio is still good.
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, the the worse the situation is the
Speaker 3: more interesting and honestly the thing that you can sort
Speaker 3: of look back at later to sort of enjoy it.
Speaker 3: The better the story it is that you can, you know,
Speaker 3: walk through like, oh, there was these decisions that were
Speaker 3: made and there were problems there and then and then
Speaker 3: you're able to tell that story later, Like it's a
Speaker 3: much better story if everything just worked right all the time,
Speaker 3: Like your job would be boring and you would leave
Speaker 3: after when you retired, be like you didn't do anything,
Speaker 3: but the fact you can look back and be like, oh,
Speaker 3: like there was one time the website was down because
Speaker 3: someone did this and it took forever, Like that's a
Speaker 3: great story that you can tell.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I tell my parents' stuff.
Speaker 5: My mom was like, you know, I don't know how
Speaker 5: you can handle this.
Speaker 4: This sounds so bad, Like.
Speaker 5: Well, if this stuff didn't go down occasionally, we didn't
Speaker 5: get tired, we didn't get attacked like this, then I
Speaker 5: wouldn't have a job. So you know, it's kind of
Speaker 5: like that's there's Yeah, I find these kind of outliers.
Speaker 5: The problem is you design a system that's so solid
Speaker 5: doesn't go down, so then they don't need you anymore.
Speaker 5: But luckily the internet is full of evil people attacking us,
Speaker 5: so it gives me a job.
Speaker 4: Sorry, that sounds weird to say that.
Speaker 1: It's always opportunity somewhere. Yeah, so you've been you're literally
Speaker 1: just a week indo cloudboard games, right.
Speaker 4: Less than a week.
Speaker 1: But yeah, yeah, what was the trigger that made you
Speaker 1: decide to to start this?
Speaker 5: So I had thought of it as a side par
Speaker 5: for my kind of community I was creating.
Speaker 4: I wanted to help.
Speaker 5: I'm trying to my mission try and finds many people
Speaker 5: that I can add value to their lives. And you know,
Speaker 5: some of my big clients, you know, that's that's great.
Speaker 5: But what if a mom and pop, tiny little shop
Speaker 5: comes to me and needs something.
Speaker 4: I can't offer them as much one on one time.
Speaker 5: So I was like, I'll build a community and then
Speaker 5: they can, you know, share information just like we've been
Speaker 5: talking about, and I can help more.
Speaker 4: People and it works out for all of us.
Speaker 5: But then I was in the Mastermind group and I
Speaker 5: was like, one of the events we're going to do
Speaker 5: is the wargaming and they're like, no, no, no, that's
Speaker 5: the front and center thing, like that's I can see
Speaker 5: companies hire you just go in and do war game
Speaker 5: through all these other things. And then they got me
Speaker 5: hyped up and I'm like, I'll have it launched. I'll
Speaker 5: had it launched by tomorrow. I said, I'll have it.
Speaker 5: I'll have a post, I'll have a video, and I'll
Speaker 5: have a landing page. And you know, I tied my
Speaker 5: hands because I in the same way with I was like,
Speaker 5: no coding, okay, you can't, no over engineering. Luckily, I'm
Speaker 5: a orrible designer, so I was like, I'm not going
Speaker 5: to design, I'll just use a template, and I set
Speaker 5: up just I'm convert kit dot com this landing page
Speaker 5: and I used calendarly to schedule the first couple and
Speaker 5: I just wrote some emails there so there's no coding,
Speaker 5: because I do have a tendency to over engineer if
Speaker 5: I allow myself. And so here we are Monday morning,
Speaker 5: and I had.
Speaker 4: Five people signed up, and now it's doubled already.
Speaker 5: It's overdoubled since then, so it's moving and now I'm
Speaker 5: on this podcast.
Speaker 4: So yeah, it was just a masterminder. They focused me.
Speaker 4: It really was going to cut away the other stuff
Speaker 4: and focus.
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. That's like another benefit of that is
Speaker 1: having people who will well, like you said, just focus you,
Speaker 1: you know, because we tend to over engineer it. And
Speaker 1: you think, oh, man, I've got to have a website,
Speaker 1: and I need a database to store the people's information
Speaker 1: and get their profiles, and I need authentication. And but honestly,
Speaker 1: by having someone hold you accountable to it, you have
Speaker 1: the VP in less than five days without having to
Speaker 1: do any of that stuff that's not actually gonna test
Speaker 1: your idea or not.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and I will say there's also some other factors here.
Speaker 5: It's a hot dog business. Being as I had all
Speaker 5: these other ingredients just sitting around, Like, I already have
Speaker 5: open source terra form scripts I manage, and I used
Speaker 5: to run my entire infrastructure and some of my client stuff,
Speaker 5: so I already had that. Next so I'm like, oh,
Speaker 5: I could spin up a domain that we can knock down.
Speaker 5: Actually that box explodeme dot com yesterday, which is gonna
Speaker 5: be attack, so I can spin that up. I didn't mean,
Speaker 5: it's not quite ready yet, but I can have it
Speaker 5: up in a few hours. And then all I gotta
Speaker 5: do is take some of these scenarios that I've got
Speaker 5: written down, make them more formal, you know, figure out, okay,
Speaker 5: this is what I'm gonna do phase one, phase two,
Speaker 5: and I will put some hints in there and stuff.
Speaker 5: So I already just had these pieces of the puzzle
Speaker 5: ready to go, and that they were just gathering dust.
Speaker 5: I'm like, all right, let's kind of.
Speaker 4: Like hot dogs.
Speaker 5: There's a bunch of other pieces of meat that you got,
Speaker 5: the little leavings that you put them together, and now
Speaker 5: you got hot dogs in Bologne or whatever else. So
Speaker 5: that was uniquely that I was lucky enough to have that, fortunate.
Speaker 4: Enough to have that.
Speaker 1: So right on, how long have you been in the
Speaker 1: Mastermind groups? How long have you been doing that?
Speaker 4: Yet?
Speaker 5: On and off throughout the years, But I over the
Speaker 5: last two years I really.
Speaker 4: Went edged down.
Speaker 5: I hired a bitch business coach and I think it
Speaker 5: was twenty twenty two. They didn't quite work out, but
Speaker 5: then I found this solo expertise one in twenty twenty three.
Speaker 4: At the beginning of that that was great.
Speaker 5: I actually ended up engaging the founder of that for
Speaker 5: a one on one coaching and we met Yesterday's phenomenon.
Speaker 4: And then I threw a parallel I found a parallel group.
Speaker 5: That was more hands off, small best dot com that
Speaker 5: then I found another person that was run another Mastermind
Speaker 5: group that was more hands on, and I jumped in
Speaker 5: with them, and I think I almost mentor them as
Speaker 5: much as they mentored me.
Speaker 4: Luckily at this but I mastered my group. Is So
Speaker 4: that's that's been.
Speaker 5: That was about nine months ago there, and I'm looking
Speaker 5: for more and I'm probably gonna start another one in
Speaker 5: the next few weeks, well maybe.
Speaker 4: Months, I just say next few months. I'm gona finish.
Speaker 1: Work right, cool? And then you're your cartoons that you
Speaker 1: release Where do you release those at for anyone who
Speaker 1: wants to see those?
Speaker 5: I have my mailing list, my socials, and then I
Speaker 5: push them. If they're relative to terrorform, I push them
Speaker 5: into terrorform.
Speaker 4: Groups here and there, our slash terraform, they're relevant.
Speaker 5: Our slash programmer humor. That's where I launched a bunch
Speaker 5: of them. Those are the ones where I get the
Speaker 5: most views.
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, And there was one week there was Yeah,
Speaker 6: there was, there was one that was relevant to something
Speaker 6: we said earlier that that just came out last week.
Speaker 5: But I don't think I can connected reads anymore.
Speaker 1: So the one you sent that cracked me up was
Speaker 1: the Y two K one because I like, I know
Speaker 1: people that in nineteen ninety nine they went into bunkers
Speaker 1: and I've never seen them since, and so pretty frequently
Speaker 1: I wonder like, wow, did they because some of them
Speaker 1: were going to stay in their bunkers for like ten
Speaker 1: or twenty years, and I was like, did they stay?
Speaker 1: Like are they still alive? What happened when they came out?
Speaker 1: And I don't know where any of them are?
Speaker 4: Yeah, I got to think and I was this could
Speaker 4: be an annual one.
Speaker 5: Because this is actually I released on the thirty first
Speaker 5: of December.
Speaker 4: I got to think of what's the dest thing that
Speaker 4: you could go back into a bunker and live your
Speaker 4: life and hiding for JavaScript everywhere?
Speaker 7: What they had a little bit of the controversy to it,
Speaker 7: because you know, of course, as like half the internet
Speaker 7: hates JavaScript and half the internet's like JavaScript, let's put
Speaker 7: it in everything right.
Speaker 4: That helped it definitely helped it go up the numbers
Speaker 4: for sure.
Speaker 3: I mean, if people I know about this as a controversy,
Speaker 3: and I just I wonder if the people who are
Speaker 3: against JavaScript will be more in favor or against whatever
Speaker 3: LM generated programming language the whole world ends up utilizing
Speaker 3: in the future. I mean, we'll be forced by our
Speaker 3: robot overlords to use the one true programming language, whatever
Speaker 3: that is. And I wonder if they'll be okay with that,
Speaker 3: or whether or not they'll have wished to go back
Speaker 3: to the days of JavaScript and everything.
Speaker 4: You just give me an idea for a camera.
Speaker 5: We're arguing about JavaScript versus not JavaScript, but what about
Speaker 5: we can all agree that people that use no code
Speaker 5: solutions are fools.
Speaker 1: I think I probably get pinned in the anti JavaScript
Speaker 1: crowd a lot, and I'm not anti JavaScript. Like the
Speaker 1: point I try to drill in there is the JavaScript's
Speaker 1: not always the right answer, you know, Like you don't
Speaker 1: hire a carpenter based on the type of hammer that
Speaker 1: they use. You hire them based on their ability to
Speaker 1: build a garage or a house or a fence or
Speaker 1: whatever you are. And I think JavaScript, to me is
Speaker 1: a tool, and so JavaScript's not always the right answer.
Speaker 1: So it's not that I'm against JavaScript. I'm against saying
Speaker 1: JavaScript is always the answer.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I was definitely in my life on
Speaker 3: the like they're just all the program languages are tools.
Speaker 3: But you know, I've definitely come more around to the
Speaker 3: fact that every single one of these tools has some
Speaker 3: specific quirks which change the utility in the solution space
Speaker 3: that we're in, and so it actually is more important
Speaker 3: that we evaluate whether or not this tool, this language,
Speaker 3: what it implies, how it works, who the maintainers are,
Speaker 3: what their mentality for the long term is, for the
Speaker 3: type of solution that we're building. And I feel like
Speaker 3: we're still very much stuck in the fact of whether
Speaker 3: or not people sort of like the tool itself, Like
Speaker 3: I like cameras, I don't like cameras, rather than the
Speaker 3: company that manufactures the hammers is who we should be evaluating.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, from from a my thoughts on jobascript from
Speaker 5: a business standpoint are.
Speaker 4: It's probably a little data now.
Speaker 5: But back in let's just say the mid twenty tens,
Speaker 5: I can high if you're gonna if you're gonna write
Speaker 5: PHP and have a website, you know you're gonna need
Speaker 5: to have JavaScript in the browser. Right, that's just you
Speaker 5: can't run PHP in the browser. Same thing with Java,
Speaker 5: the same thing with a lot of things. So a
Speaker 5: lot of these developers that I was finding had some
Speaker 5: amount of jabascript background, and I found that you can
Speaker 5: repurpose you know, that little bit of JavaScript in the
Speaker 5: browser to run server side if you wanted to, much easier.
Speaker 5: So it was more of a cost efficient thing. I
Speaker 5: could a PHP dev that's full stat and nike them
Speaker 5: a no JS dev without breaking the bank on that one.
Speaker 5: With that said, now, with AI being a big thing,
Speaker 5: it would be silly to try and use to run
Speaker 5: their own.
Speaker 4: Networks in JavaScript. I know because I've tried it. Probably
Speaker 4: not a good.
Speaker 5: Idea, So but no yeah, you can you So you're right,
Speaker 5: you got to pick the right tool for the job.
Speaker 4: But it was strictly on like a who could I
Speaker 4: you know, we can.
Speaker 5: Cast a wider net and hire people that have JavaScript experience,
Speaker 5: and you know, so we can get a wider range
Speaker 5: of people coming in, better applicants and ideally a better outcome.
Speaker 4: So that was that's that business. You know, numbers, you
Speaker 4: got to kind of do that calculus as well. Not
Speaker 4: the right tool for AI, not the right tool for
Speaker 4: a lot of things.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it might be the right tool for your
Speaker 1: business because you just need a versatile programmer who can
Speaker 1: get shit done.
Speaker 5: Yeah, if I'm hiring for the top Python dev, a
Speaker 5: lot harder to figure out how to hire those guys.
Speaker 4: Than just you know, top job of death for sure.
Speaker 1: So for people who want to go check out Cloud
Speaker 1: war Games, cloud wargames dot com.
Speaker 4: Cloud wargames dot com. Yeh, that's that's where you find it.
Speaker 4: You can find me the time arm cloths. That's kind
Speaker 4: of tells you all the different.
Speaker 1: Things I was trying to I was trying to tee
Speaker 1: it up to let you plug the website, but then
Speaker 1: I just plugged the website for you and stole the
Speaker 1: answer out from under you.
Speaker 4: I sure did.
Speaker 3: For for the release of the episode on the website
Speaker 3: adventure indevops dot com, there'll be a bunch of blurbs
Speaker 3: along with whatever links you want us to post there.
Speaker 3: So if you want to just respond to us after
Speaker 3: the podcast, you know, all of the things that we've
Speaker 3: talked about in this episode.
Speaker 2: For anyone who's interested, well, I'll be listed there.
Speaker 5: Sure, okay, well yes, Cloud wargames dot com is where
Speaker 5: you can find that stemmatical dot com that's the worst
Speaker 5: schematical al at the end is where you can find
Speaker 5: most of my writings. Matical dot com and soon. I
Speaker 5: haven't announced this publicly. It is the first time announcing it.
Speaker 5: I actually just in the last three months of my
Speaker 5: life building a video course for O'Reilly's the publishing company,
Speaker 5: an on demand video course that very they wanted me
Speaker 5: to say on demand on themand video of course for
Speaker 5: o'riiley Publishing, and so that will be live hopefully by
Speaker 5: the next two weeks or so, may go at the
Speaker 5: time this comes out. So if you want to learn
Speaker 5: zero to Hero and a w security and animated guide
Speaker 5: to security in the cloud, then we'll be there.
Speaker 4: So if I'm overplugging this, feel free to cut it.
Speaker 1: But now I'm super interested in this. So now this
Speaker 1: is an animated course on a w security.
Speaker 5: Yes, yes it is. Actually if if you want, I've
Speaker 5: got a diagram here that I queued up. Okay, we
Speaker 5: can cut this if you want. But if you guys want,
Speaker 5: I'm actually we can play a micro round of cloud war.
Speaker 4: Game right now.
Speaker 1: Let's do it.
Speaker 5: Can I present here? Share a screen? Share screen this
Speaker 5: right here? You guys tell me if you could see it?
Speaker 4: We can.
Speaker 1: Now anyone listening to the podcast can, so I'm gonna
Speaker 1: narrate it for them.
Speaker 5: There, Okay, there we go. All right, we have our
Speaker 5: infrastructure here. This is a network map, all right, and
Speaker 5: we've got to use it right here. So this I'm
Speaker 5: gonna go as fast as I can because I know
Speaker 5: we're I want to be respectful.
Speaker 4: The timement. A request come in.
Speaker 5: It's the application load balance, or it's the it's the
Speaker 5: application server. Then you're shopping cart, so I should set
Speaker 5: the tone. E commerce store. You run an e commerce
Speaker 5: store here, they're shopping cart stored and reddis so they say, hey,
Speaker 5: I want to buy this thing. It goes into reddis
Speaker 5: it goes back to the application layer, and now they've
Speaker 5: added it to their car.
Speaker 4: And let's just say that they actually go.
Speaker 5: To make a purchase. It's the application server. We're doing
Speaker 5: a vendor of an architecture. Maybe it's not the right one.
Speaker 5: All right, We're gonna fgure about the animation for now.
Speaker 5: The vendor and architecture pumps a kinesis that updates the
Speaker 5: database it purchases made and updates the inventory management software
Speaker 5: and updates the product worker which charges them and updates
Speaker 5: the nail service and all that stuff. That All right,
Speaker 5: I'm getting to all the details here.
Speaker 4: Here's the scenario.
Speaker 5: Okay, Customer service comes to you and says, we are
Speaker 5: getting reports that people are missing stuff in their cart.
Speaker 5: They they're adding stuff to their cart, and all of
Speaker 5: a sudden, when they go to check out, it's not there.
Speaker 4: They go to another page, it's not there. All right,
Speaker 4: what do we do?
Speaker 1: So I'm gonna highlight this real quick. We're looking at
Speaker 1: an animated diagram of an AWS environment, right and is
Speaker 1: this part of the Cloud Wars games interface?
Speaker 4: It will be, it's not.
Speaker 5: Actually this is running locally right now, because I've never
Speaker 5: bothered to put it on a website, but it'll be
Speaker 5: up eventually.
Speaker 4: I'll use it locally if I have to.
Speaker 1: For now, right on. Okay, so there's stuff's missing from
Speaker 1: their cart. I'm assuming that the cart is persisted somewhere
Speaker 1: in some data store somewhere.
Speaker 4: That is correct, It is in reddits right on?
Speaker 1: So do we have a way to check the logs
Speaker 1: on reddus or check the whatever's writing logs to reddus.
Speaker 4: It's running out elastic cash. Elastic cash does have events.
Speaker 5: I don't know if you get directly to the logs there,
Speaker 5: but you can log into reddis and run some stuff.
Speaker 5: You've got metrics too, don't forget you've got you do
Speaker 5: have five watch metrics.
Speaker 4: Good, I guess.
Speaker 3: The first question is, like, is the data in the
Speaker 3: database where it's supposed to be if we're using reddus
Speaker 3: like Reddit commander or something to tell us whether or
Speaker 3: not the items are actually in the shopping carts that so.
Speaker 5: You go in there, you've got's call it one hundred
Speaker 5: thousand keys and you look at it.
Speaker 4: There is data in there.
Speaker 5: You can I wouldn't do this step for you normally,
Speaker 5: but I'm going to do it just because I'm speak
Speaker 5: things long you go in there and you try and
Speaker 5: add thinks to your car. Of course, you add things
Speaker 5: to your car, you check yourself key against it, and
Speaker 5: your stuff is.
Speaker 4: In the cart.
Speaker 3: There does the cart for the customers complaining? Uh, are
Speaker 3: you able to have a session for that that you
Speaker 3: can track the check to see if there are actual
Speaker 3: items for that session in the cart.
Speaker 5: So this is this is where I want to go,
Speaker 5: like a five ceented diet. You have a technical minded
Speaker 5: customer or not?
Speaker 4: Okay, you just rolled. You have a technical minded.
Speaker 5: Customer, they can open up their browser and copy the
Speaker 5: cookie for the session and send it to and so yes,
Speaker 5: have their session.
Speaker 3: I mean I always assume they're not a technical customer,
Speaker 3: and so you try to get them to purchase some
Speaker 3: fake item in the cart that only only their session
Speaker 3: will will have access to. This is a magic r
Speaker 3: L right that allows That's brilliant attracted.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, I love that if yeah, I was just
Speaker 5: being nice because we don't want to be for the
Speaker 5: second time.
Speaker 4: But yes, I love that solution. This is the type
Speaker 4: of solution I didn't I wouldn't have thought of that.
Speaker 4: I would have thought this is the type of stuff
Speaker 4: you can get with these seven games.
Speaker 3: Well, we we gotta we gotta debug this stuff for
Speaker 3: real all the time. At our company, I mean we're
Speaker 3: not e commerce, but uh, you know someone we we
Speaker 3: do log in and access control, and so it's always
Speaker 3: a point of contention like why didn't this user have
Speaker 3: access to this resource at this particular moment, and so
Speaker 3: figuring that out, you know, requires a bunch of things.
Speaker 3: So we have ways to give our customers information that
Speaker 3: they can inject into their environment when they're performing the
Speaker 3: sort of investigation that we can see on our side,
Speaker 3: so that we can highlight exactly which traces make sense. Otherwise,
Speaker 3: you know, you're looking at all of the data for
Speaker 3: every customer in order to narrow that down.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: So I mean you said technical customer or some magic solution,
Speaker 3: and are we getting their items in the cart?
Speaker 2: Their session busted?
Speaker 5: You checked the session against the reddest statvasion. You have
Speaker 5: the session key, there, items You're gone, not there there,
Speaker 5: there's nothing, There's nothing but that.
Speaker 4: Y key's gone.
Speaker 1: So you mentioned elastic cash. I'm assuming that wasn't just
Speaker 1: randomly throwing out words where's that at in this ie pline.
Speaker 5: Running on a US Is the lastic cash just don't
Speaker 5: have the last cash service that runs value key stores. Okay,
Speaker 5: I got a couple of different ones, but I picked
Speaker 5: reddis this is my go to.
Speaker 1: Gotcha interested? So they put something through the browser in
Speaker 1: the cart, never made it up, never made it into reddish.
Speaker 1: Who's responsible for sending it to reddis to clarify?
Speaker 4: So just again, I'm giving you way too much here.
Speaker 5: I never said it didn't make it into reddis in
Speaker 5: the first place.
Speaker 3: Just got deleted instantaneously, Like you know, by the time
Speaker 3: it gets to the cart, by the time you look
Speaker 3: at it, it's no longer there. So there could be
Speaker 3: some sort of TTL on the items that are going
Speaker 3: into the cart, or some other process that's eliminating them
Speaker 3: from redus, or you know, of course not getting there
Speaker 3: in the first place.
Speaker 4: M yeah.
Speaker 5: So yeah, So just to speed us along, I'm gonna
Speaker 5: drop what I gives a hint uh that you do.
Speaker 4: Have cloudwashed logs for uh for reddas, so you could
Speaker 4: ask me what they are saying.
Speaker 1: Well, what are the logs saying?
Speaker 5: Number of items is pretty number of items went up
Speaker 5: the flat lined. Okay, see if usage fine, number of
Speaker 5: evictions is up quite a bit.
Speaker 1: Evictions, Oh, so they they got evicted.
Speaker 5: Yep, and I guess the usual memory drop. So again
Speaker 5: I'm gonna simulate this. Yeah, I wasted one of my
Speaker 5: real juicy ones, but I guess it's probably good here.
Speaker 4: So yeah, so what what's the what's the solution there?
Speaker 1: So I don't use reddus a whole lot. So obviously
Speaker 1: it seems like reddis evicted for some reason because it
Speaker 1: either has like a max number of key values that
Speaker 1: it can store, or it ran out of space.
Speaker 4: Yep, it is correct, it just runs out of dat.
Speaker 5: You can set aviction policy, but in this case, I
Speaker 5: think the default is to just start evicting the older ones.
Speaker 5: And so that's what happens, is they filled up. Maybe
Speaker 5: it was a big shopping day, you know, only you
Speaker 5: didn't expect this much. This many people put stuff in
Speaker 5: the cart and so it filled up. Or I mean
Speaker 5: it's again I'm gonna just kind of speed through this.
Speaker 5: But possibly you could look at it and some change
Speaker 5: made the payload of each key too big, you know,
Speaker 5: So we added something and now we're cashing like this
Speaker 5: whole structure instead of just the product ideas and quantities
Speaker 5: were catching the metadata and the products.
Speaker 4: For some reason.
Speaker 5: Somebody actually messed up and put that in there, so
Speaker 5: and now it's just bloated.
Speaker 4: So the fix would I mean, I get you.
Speaker 5: I'll let you guys present the fix if you guys
Speaker 5: have anything there and to the problem.
Speaker 1: I think the emergency fixes increase the size of reddish.
Speaker 5: So that's that's probably what I would do, and then
Speaker 5: the long term fix would need to fix the bug
Speaker 5: that Adam.
Speaker 4: Catch all that so actually happened once actually happened. They
Speaker 4: had a cash a bunch of HTML in there.
Speaker 5: That was like, I'm like, what this is adjacent objects
Speaker 5: with HTML and it like what what are you doing?
Speaker 4: Your stop cashing that stuff in this thing. But it happens.
Speaker 5: So yeah, all right, congratulations after action report and so.
Speaker 4: On and so forth.
Speaker 3: So well, yeah, I mean this is great. I'm actually
Speaker 3: sort of curious on the scenario. Is using reddis as
Speaker 3: a temporary store for the cart common pattern in e
Speaker 3: commerce stores.
Speaker 4: At early stage. Yeah.
Speaker 5: So a lot of my clients, you know, I love
Speaker 5: the death clients, understand they you know, they start off
Speaker 5: with something simple like WordPress and they start slapping more things.
Speaker 4: That not the way I would do it. Okay, not
Speaker 4: the way I would do is. I mean, there's there's
Speaker 4: a lot of data you can extract from carts. It's
Speaker 4: not ephemeral data. You want to know.
Speaker 5: Who's adding what when, where's you can send a reminder, emails,
Speaker 5: all stuff.
Speaker 4: But a lot of times with.
Speaker 5: Dev's, a lot of times it's the stuff everything in
Speaker 5: the session and then prey.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I get I get the perspective of
Speaker 3: knowing that it's temporary data. It's not the order hasn't
Speaker 3: been created yet, so storing it in a data store
Speaker 3: that may not be persistent. I also get the idea
Speaker 3: that people believe that reddis is this non ephemeral data
Speaker 3: store and you know, go ahead and use it as
Speaker 3: your source of truth database. But you know, in the
Speaker 3: mature businesses, as you said, like you you actually don't
Speaker 3: even want to throw away that session data.
Speaker 2: As soon as you have it, you might as well be.
Speaker 3: Persisting it for for permanency so that you can evaluate,
Speaker 3: you know, why didn't that convert to an actual order?
Speaker 2: You know, why didn't that person come back?
Speaker 3: And then once they do actually click by h and
Speaker 3: payment gets processed, you don't need to convert it from
Speaker 3: your temporary data store into into a permanent one.
Speaker 2: You already have it there. The payment is sort of separate.
Speaker 4: I'm trying. I'm actually trying to get you to exactly
Speaker 4: what you're describing for my the video I did on
Speaker 4: Amazon Glue and.
Speaker 8: You know, putting those that data in a long term
Speaker 8: coal source, basically telling the people who difference between source
Speaker 8: of truth ephemeral and long term term you know, red
Speaker 8: shift or big data analytics tools, data warehouse, data leg
Speaker 8: type of situation.
Speaker 3: So this is one of your videos that's going on
Speaker 3: on demand on O'Reilly or no, that's.
Speaker 4: My YouTube videos.
Speaker 5: The Riley videos are specific to the security course, so
Speaker 5: you can see if you have a bunch.
Speaker 4: Of that in here. But I see, all right, I'm
Speaker 4: gonna stop sharing sometimes.
Speaker 5: No, I didn't prepare that one.
Speaker 2: Will has gone Will has gone dark for me.
Speaker 3: He's got no camera on's he's hiding from the from
Speaker 3: the public and anonymous. Yeah, I mean, I think, you know,
Speaker 3: I think it's a good point to maybe wrap up
Speaker 3: the episode, unless to anything last word you want to
Speaker 3: share about cloud war games or your consultancy.
Speaker 5: No, I want to thank you both for being the
Speaker 5: first participants, and I mean's somewhat of an unofficial. It's
Speaker 5: somewhat an unofficial capacity there, but thank you both for
Speaker 5: being the first participants. I mean, we kind of played
Speaker 5: a micro around there, but I invite you once I
Speaker 5: get the thing moving, I invite you guys to come
Speaker 5: and participate in. If you guys are game, maybe I
Speaker 5: come back and run a full length game with you
Speaker 5: guys some of that nature.
Speaker 4: So it's s throwing that out there.
Speaker 1: If you're interesting, that'd be a blast and I would
Speaker 1: love to have you back on at any time for that.
Speaker 1: And there's a bunch of other topics we we like
Speaker 1: touched on here that I think would be cool to
Speaker 1: dig deeper on.
Speaker 4: Yeah, for sure, be my pleasure.
Speaker 5: You let me know what and I'll you know, another
Speaker 5: guest drops out, you come find me.
Speaker 4: With that.
Speaker 3: Should we move on to pickswell we should lop.
Speaker 2: Ah man words.
Speaker 1: Yeah right. Just like to take this opportunity to point
Speaker 1: out to everyone that English is my native language and
Speaker 1: I still screw it up.
Speaker 5: You should see me editing my videos. Love swearing.
Speaker 1: Well, for sure. I used to do quite a few
Speaker 1: YouTube videos and did some video courses and stuff, and
Speaker 1: my wife would always give me a hard time. She
Speaker 1: would say I can always tell how it's going by
Speaker 1: how many cuss words I can hear coming out of
Speaker 1: your office. But at one point I made like a
Speaker 1: blooper reel where I just took all the cuss words
Speaker 1: that I cut out of all my videos and it
Speaker 1: was like an eight minute stream of just some of
Speaker 1: the most offensive language that has ever been recorded. Yeah,
Speaker 1: all right, anyway, on the picks, Warren, you brought it up,
Speaker 1: so I'll go first. I'm picking. A couple of weeks ago,
Speaker 1: I picked Kunk on Earth, the Netflix special, and I
Speaker 1: think that was when we had aj Funk on and
Speaker 1: he said that there was a new one called Kunk
Speaker 1: on Life, and so I watched that, and I thought
Speaker 1: Kunk on Earth was so great that there would be
Speaker 1: no way a follow up to it could be as entertaining.
Speaker 1: And I'm happy to tell you that I was wrong
Speaker 1: on so many levels. So Kunk on Life. Go check
Speaker 1: that out on Netflix. The just the sense of humor
Speaker 1: there and the dryness of that sense of humor had
Speaker 1: me just rolling on the floor laughing, just absolutely amazing,
Speaker 1: and they accidentally made it educational as well. So go
Speaker 1: check that out.
Speaker 4: Well.
Speaker 3: I definitely will, because I liked all of the other
Speaker 3: series by Filamina. Yeah, I guess that's her her stage
Speaker 3: name and not her not.
Speaker 2: The actress's name.
Speaker 3: Okay, mine is I guess I also have a show.
Speaker 3: So I read the book's Three Body Problem by Leo Sheen,
Speaker 3: and it's actually one of the scenarios where I actually
Speaker 3: like the series better. I think the series is absolutely fantastic.
Speaker 3: I think some of the books are good, but the
Speaker 3: series like absolutely really well done.
Speaker 2: I really look.
Speaker 3: Forward to the fallow Up seasons. If you haven't seen
Speaker 3: it or read the books, I highly recommend a lot
Speaker 3: of good philosophical ideas that.
Speaker 4: Are brought up.
Speaker 1: Okay, give me the high level of what it's about,
Speaker 1: because I'm just assuming from the title three Body Problem,
Speaker 1: this is how to get away with murdering someone, but
Speaker 1: I may be wrong.
Speaker 3: No, it actually has to do with the unsolvability of
Speaker 3: finding out without the initial conditions, what the path and
Speaker 3: orientation of a solar system with three masses in it is.
Speaker 1: Okay, that's not going to be as useful to me
Speaker 1: as I thought it was at first.
Speaker 3: See yeah, without without without spoiling, without without spoiling really
Speaker 3: that much. There is one of the very close solar
Speaker 3: systems in our galaxy to the milk in the Milky
Speaker 3: Way to our solar system is one with three stars
Speaker 3: in it, and so there is a relation's science fiction,
Speaker 3: really good philosophical dilemmas, absolutely fantastic, well done.
Speaker 1: Is that the Alpha Centauri system that you're referring to?
Speaker 4: Yeah? Yeah, because they.
Speaker 1: Originally thought it was one star and then found out
Speaker 1: that it was two binary stars in orbit with another
Speaker 1: star close by.
Speaker 3: I think, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's four light years away right.
Speaker 1: Just across the street.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So, Matt, what do you got for us?
Speaker 5: Yes, you got all the science science stuff.
Speaker 4: I did not come prepared for that.
Speaker 5: I got the comic book Scott Pilgrim Versus of the World,
Speaker 5: a lot of Yeah, they do a lot of pixel
Speaker 5: aart in there, and I've been doing and wrapping on
Speaker 5: my desk, and I've been doing a lot of comic
Speaker 5: book stuff, so I'm like, Okay, this would be a
Speaker 5: good thing to pick up. And I'm trying to look
Speaker 5: at screens less before bed. So I've been uh, just
Speaker 5: reading through this lately. Yeah, not not quite as not
Speaker 5: quite as big as as interesting.
Speaker 4: As as the three body problem, but it helps me
Speaker 4: go to sleep.
Speaker 2: What was what was that last thing that you held up?
Speaker 4: Scott Philbrin versus, The world was just uh that's volume one.
Speaker 3: Vollime, I say, I didn't know it was a written
Speaker 3: work of art.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I believe that's how it started. And then I
Speaker 4: think they made the video game and then the movie
Speaker 4: so interesting.
Speaker 9: But the video game, it was the guy's the dark
Speaker 9: for that guy named Paul Robinson, I think the probas
Speaker 9: G or whatever, and he's just a phenomenal pixlartist, and
Speaker 9: I just I.
Speaker 4: My work doesn't come close to it. And I got
Speaker 4: a style that I can do.
Speaker 5: A two seconds, but he spends like years building these
Speaker 5: amazing animations.
Speaker 4: It's phenomenal.
Speaker 1: So right on. Cool well, Matt, thanks again for coming
Speaker 1: on the show. This has been a blast and we
Speaker 1: will definitely have you back on. For everyone else, check
Speaker 1: out cloud war games dot Com and anywhere else that
Speaker 1: you hang out, you hang out on like ex LinkedIn,
Speaker 1: any of that kind of stuff.
Speaker 5: What you can find me, you find me most of
Speaker 5: these places schematic Okay, I'll try and grab it anywhere
Speaker 5: I can.
Speaker 1: So okay, Yeah, so check it out on schematical and
Speaker 1: thanks for listening. And we'll see everyone next week.