1
00:00:01,960 --> 00:00:05,000
Speaker 1: There we go. What's up everyone, Welcome to another episode

2
00:00:05,040 --> 00:00:09,919
of Adventures in DevOps Warren. Thanks for joining me again.

3
00:00:10,720 --> 00:00:12,599
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I think you don't need to thank me.

4
00:00:12,640 --> 00:00:15,480
Speaker 3: Every time I decided to show up, I always said

5
00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:16,920
that we were going to have like a maybe a

6
00:00:17,000 --> 00:00:18,960
cool fact at the beginning of every episode, and I

7
00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:21,039
try to come up with one, although I do believe

8
00:00:21,120 --> 00:00:25,280
last time Jillian committed to bringing the fact and I don't.

9
00:00:25,600 --> 00:00:28,039
Maybe it's a coincidence that she's just not here today,

10
00:00:28,120 --> 00:00:31,519
so I will have to step in and share something.

11
00:00:31,640 --> 00:00:35,079
Speaker 2: I forgot the pin for my backup phone.

12
00:00:35,840 --> 00:00:37,759
Speaker 3: And I didn't remember how many digits it was and

13
00:00:37,759 --> 00:00:39,960
on Android, apparently you can keep going forever.

14
00:00:40,119 --> 00:00:42,359
Speaker 2: So I was on one hundred and fifty attempts.

15
00:00:44,079 --> 00:00:45,880
Speaker 3: I would try to guess for this PINNs and it

16
00:00:45,920 --> 00:00:48,759
wasn't like, no, I don't care about factory resetting it,

17
00:00:49,039 --> 00:00:50,679
but you know, I just wanted to see, like can

18
00:00:50,719 --> 00:00:53,079
I get it? And actually one hundred and fifty one

19
00:00:53,200 --> 00:00:56,520
I finally got it. I had up the pin size.

20
00:00:56,240 --> 00:00:59,880
Speaker 2: To twelve digits and like that was like a real

21
00:01:00,359 --> 00:01:00,600
for me.

22
00:01:00,719 --> 00:01:02,439
Speaker 3: So you know, if you forget your Android, Penn, just

23
00:01:02,520 --> 00:01:05,079
keep trying there's there's no there's no time. I mean,

24
00:01:05,079 --> 00:01:07,799
there's a thirty second time out for up per attempt,

25
00:01:07,799 --> 00:01:09,120
but other than that, you just keep going.

26
00:01:10,040 --> 00:01:13,879
Speaker 1: So is that like manual brute force attack? Is that

27
00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:15,640
the category this would fall into?

28
00:01:17,840 --> 00:01:18,159
Speaker 4: Right on?

29
00:01:19,319 --> 00:01:23,079
Speaker 1: Cool, I'm excited about today's episode. Joining us today, we

30
00:01:23,120 --> 00:01:29,079
have Matt Lee from Schematical and from cloud wargames dot com.

31
00:01:29,079 --> 00:01:33,439
Looking at your background here, Matt, co founder of drawn

32
00:01:33,519 --> 00:01:37,159
by dot ai, author of ship or Get Off Thepot

33
00:01:37,200 --> 00:01:43,359
dot com, and then gymnastics coach for eighteen years and

34
00:01:43,519 --> 00:01:48,200
out of Madison, Wisconsin. Welcome Matt, Thanks thanks for having me.

35
00:01:48,560 --> 00:01:53,120
Speaker 5: Yeah, the shipper dot com I'm not doing anymore, but

36
00:01:53,439 --> 00:01:56,200
uh the I actually did write a book on coaching

37
00:01:56,200 --> 00:01:59,840
gymnastics called Hacking Here Strategies how to help high performing

38
00:02:00,079 --> 00:02:01,359
police through mental issues.

39
00:02:01,519 --> 00:02:03,879
Speaker 4: So fun fays right on.

40
00:02:04,120 --> 00:02:08,520
Speaker 1: My youngest son did gymnastics from I think from when

41
00:02:08,560 --> 00:02:11,800
he was about ten all the way up until his

42
00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:15,479
senior year and high school and his senior year. I

43
00:02:15,479 --> 00:02:17,479
mean you're probably well aware of this, Like the number

44
00:02:17,560 --> 00:02:24,520
of collegiate positions for men gymnastics is very, very small,

45
00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:27,319
and so he knew that that wasn't going to get

46
00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:30,719
him anywhere, and he wanted to participate in some kind

47
00:02:30,719 --> 00:02:36,840
of activity at school because for his entire education, he

48
00:02:36,879 --> 00:02:39,520
would get out of school, his mom would be waiting

49
00:02:39,520 --> 00:02:41,319
in the parking lot and she would drive him an

50
00:02:41,400 --> 00:02:44,879
hour to the gymnastics facility and he would work out

51
00:02:44,919 --> 00:02:47,680
for four hours, doing his homework in the car, and

52
00:02:47,719 --> 00:02:50,599
that was his life growing up. So his senior year

53
00:02:50,639 --> 00:02:53,240
he wanted to do something that was school related and

54
00:02:53,280 --> 00:02:55,639
that was the end of his gymnastics career. But it's

55
00:02:55,639 --> 00:03:00,479
a commitment and there's so much mental to itbsolutely.

56
00:03:01,439 --> 00:03:04,120
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's not an on count of a story unfortunately,

57
00:03:04,240 --> 00:03:05,599
men gymnastics it's just.

58
00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:08,319
Speaker 4: Not doing as well these days. Too many competitors this

59
00:03:08,360 --> 00:03:09,479
sport are cooler in.

60
00:03:09,439 --> 00:03:13,199
Speaker 1: Other things, right for sure. Yeah, And I think the

61
00:03:13,520 --> 00:03:17,719
commitment to it just kind of kind of just like

62
00:03:17,919 --> 00:03:21,039
self filters, you know, so that when you do get

63
00:03:21,039 --> 00:03:23,800
to those people that are there, you've got some very

64
00:03:23,840 --> 00:03:25,520
committed individuals.

65
00:03:25,879 --> 00:03:26,800
Speaker 4: Yeah you don't.

66
00:03:26,919 --> 00:03:30,639
Speaker 5: You played football, You play soccer. No one plays gymnastics.

67
00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:36,479
Speaker 1: Right A point. Cool, So tell us a little bit

68
00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:41,919
about actually, first you it looks like you've been in

69
00:03:41,960 --> 00:03:44,439
Wisconsin for a long time. Are you Wisconsin native?

70
00:03:45,039 --> 00:03:48,039
Speaker 5: Yeah, born and raised, traveled the world that I keep

71
00:03:48,039 --> 00:03:51,879
coming back here, and about four years settled down a

72
00:03:51,879 --> 00:03:53,759
bout a house out in the countryside a little north

73
00:03:53,759 --> 00:03:56,199
of Madison, and.

74
00:03:55,560 --> 00:03:59,599
Speaker 3: And love right on Madison is fantastic. I lived there

75
00:03:59,639 --> 00:04:03,000
for two years, and I will say that I love

76
00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:08,520
being there in the summer. Only qualifier that.

77
00:04:08,479 --> 00:04:10,639
Speaker 5: Summer and fall. Yeah, you would get this time of

78
00:04:10,680 --> 00:04:12,560
year or not not as nice.

79
00:04:13,319 --> 00:04:14,719
Speaker 1: What's your current temperature today?

80
00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:18,720
Speaker 4: Oh, it's actually really nice. I was outside earlier with

81
00:04:18,879 --> 00:04:19,439
the dogs out, and.

82
00:04:19,399 --> 00:04:21,600
Speaker 5: I do some jumping jacks to wake up myself pretty

83
00:04:21,600 --> 00:04:24,800
for the podcast and be around ten degrees.

84
00:04:24,879 --> 00:04:28,160
Speaker 4: So it's actually very pleasant compared to Yeah, funny we

85
00:04:28,160 --> 00:04:29,680
were close to a week ago.

86
00:04:30,120 --> 00:04:30,959
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's balmy.

87
00:04:33,920 --> 00:04:34,120
Speaker 4: Right.

88
00:04:34,360 --> 00:04:39,439
Speaker 1: So Cloud I'm gonna mess up with the name. Dammit,

89
00:04:39,560 --> 00:04:42,519
sorry about that. Cloud wargames dot Com tell us a

90
00:04:42,560 --> 00:04:43,279
little bit about that.

91
00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:45,720
Speaker 5: Don't feel bad about messing up the games. I keep

92
00:04:45,759 --> 00:04:49,879
calling it cloud watch games because the cloudwashed all day

93
00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:52,759
long if you had signers on web services and uh,

94
00:04:52,959 --> 00:04:56,160
you know with cloud war games. Yeah, so this goes

95
00:04:56,199 --> 00:04:58,759
back a little bit, if you don't mind me going back.

96
00:04:58,800 --> 00:05:00,800
Speaker 4: I had a team I was running.

97
00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:03,240
Speaker 5: I think I had like eleven people on staff, and

98
00:05:02,839 --> 00:05:06,399
I needed to come up with the training idea of.

99
00:05:06,560 --> 00:05:08,560
Speaker 4: Project for that. So I've come up with a couple of.

100
00:05:08,519 --> 00:05:11,439
Speaker 5: Different games over the years and different tools to help

101
00:05:11,439 --> 00:05:14,240
out my devs. And so one of them was the

102
00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:17,079
predecessor to cloud board games, which is where I would

103
00:05:17,319 --> 00:05:24,000
take awayboard and draw network mathlets like you know, and

104
00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:26,759
so I would I would do with this Dungeons and Dragon.

105
00:05:26,519 --> 00:05:28,160
Speaker 4: Style game with them, and what.

106
00:05:28,199 --> 00:05:30,839
Speaker 5: I did size just straight and down all these different

107
00:05:30,879 --> 00:05:35,360
points as I had hundreds of scenarios of things that

108
00:05:35,399 --> 00:05:38,360
had gone horribly wrong over the years that I would

109
00:05:38,399 --> 00:05:42,199
then throw at them, and I'd say something like, yeah,

110
00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:44,399
give them a brief, which would be like all of

111
00:05:44,439 --> 00:05:48,079
a sudden, your website's timing out, you know, was that,

112
00:05:48,319 --> 00:05:50,639
and they'd have to walk through and tell me how

113
00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:53,040
they wanted to solve it. And so this one, in

114
00:05:53,079 --> 00:05:56,639
this case a security group switch. Somebody removed a security

115
00:05:56,680 --> 00:06:00,600
group which is basically a firewall rule from one of

116
00:06:00,639 --> 00:06:04,199
the various instances or resources running there and started to

117
00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:06,680
time out. So I've got all these other ones incident

118
00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:09,000
cannot deploy, and so it's you know, you don't get

119
00:06:09,040 --> 00:06:09,680
a lot of information.

120
00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:12,240
Speaker 4: A lot of times when people come to you saying there's.

121
00:06:12,079 --> 00:06:14,639
Speaker 5: A problem at the time as customer service person saying,

122
00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:20,040
our guys, you know, our shopping cart is disappearing randomly

123
00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:22,040
for our e commerce store, like people all of a sudden

124
00:06:22,079 --> 00:06:26,360
the shopping cars empty. Uh you know, So using that

125
00:06:26,720 --> 00:06:30,120
and just their wits and and we would just walked

126
00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:31,879
through it as if I was a dungeon master, and

127
00:06:31,959 --> 00:06:34,319
it was a pretty good training tool. You could really

128
00:06:34,480 --> 00:06:38,279
figure out who was, you know, thinking outside the box,

129
00:06:38,319 --> 00:06:41,120
who was like really analytical or who just kind of I.

130
00:06:41,120 --> 00:06:43,199
Speaker 4: Don't know, you know. It turned to be a great

131
00:06:43,240 --> 00:06:45,600
sales tool as well. You go off the client through this,

132
00:06:46,319 --> 00:06:46,800
They're like.

133
00:06:46,959 --> 00:06:51,399
Speaker 5: That can go wrong, That's like, like that can happen.

134
00:06:51,480 --> 00:06:53,279
Speaker 4: You're like, yeah, I can. What would you do?

135
00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:55,360
Speaker 5: I don't know. I guess I'd call you all right.

136
00:06:55,879 --> 00:06:57,920
So that is how it started.

137
00:06:58,519 --> 00:07:01,040
Speaker 4: Then. Uh literally the last Thursday.

138
00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:03,680
Speaker 5: I was on a Mastermind group and I was talking

139
00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:06,040
about some goals I got. I was going to launch

140
00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:08,639
a community for people to want to learn at US.

141
00:07:08,800 --> 00:07:11,360
And I was telling them about my idea for war games,

142
00:07:11,399 --> 00:07:14,360
which is where we spin up actual infrastructure, a database

143
00:07:14,399 --> 00:07:16,120
infrastructure because we got infrastructures code.

144
00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:17,319
Speaker 4: It's not like I have to mangle you.

145
00:07:17,399 --> 00:07:21,480
Speaker 5: It's like to spin it up and then I basically

146
00:07:21,519 --> 00:07:23,879
knock down a part of it, or fill up the database,

147
00:07:24,120 --> 00:07:26,920
or remove the security groups, you know something or gid

148
00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:30,079
us attack myself at the front of it. And then

149
00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:34,160
people will the participants that hot seat participants, which people

150
00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:37,319
with their cameras on ideally will be sitting there and

151
00:07:37,319 --> 00:07:40,839
they'll be like, hey, they'll they'll they they'll try and

152
00:07:40,879 --> 00:07:42,920
fix it, you know. And there's a couple of different variables.

153
00:07:42,959 --> 00:07:45,920
I'm gonna I've got a beginner, intermediate, and advance. Like

154
00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:47,720
the beginner one maybe they would just talk to me

155
00:07:47,759 --> 00:07:50,560
and I'll fix it on my computer screen. The advanced ones,

156
00:07:50,600 --> 00:07:53,639
I'll give them the actual AWUS keys and say here.

157
00:07:53,480 --> 00:07:56,279
Speaker 4: You go, go ahead and fix it.

158
00:07:56,319 --> 00:07:59,199
Speaker 5: And so there's just a yeah, I'm trying to make

159
00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:02,560
it available to all ages. So I'm getting creative with it.

160
00:08:02,600 --> 00:08:06,319
But yeah, that was the of oh yeah, it's Friday.

161
00:08:06,319 --> 00:08:09,720
I bought the domain cloudmoregame dot com and then I

162
00:08:09,759 --> 00:08:11,480
set it up and sent out a mailing list to

163
00:08:11,519 --> 00:08:13,959
it by easily underd subscribers, and I had the biggest

164
00:08:13,959 --> 00:08:16,399
reaction I've ever seen. I've got people signing up coming

165
00:08:16,399 --> 00:08:17,639
out of the look where I had no idea who

166
00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:20,240
they are, and then I you know, you guys, and

167
00:08:20,240 --> 00:08:21,519
then you guys are like you want to be on

168
00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:24,920
so here I am five days later and uh, this

169
00:08:24,959 --> 00:08:26,759
is it's going.

170
00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:29,480
Speaker 3: Well, Well, I'm glad it's going, you know, so quickly

171
00:08:29,519 --> 00:08:32,120
for you, you know, to have a hundred different scenarios

172
00:08:32,120 --> 00:08:33,960
that must have taken quite a long time. Like I'm

173
00:08:33,960 --> 00:08:35,799
just thinking back throughout my career and like, I don't

174
00:08:35,799 --> 00:08:37,639
know if I could come up with like one hundred

175
00:08:37,720 --> 00:08:40,720
things that had gone wrong and have the whole I'm like,

176
00:08:40,840 --> 00:08:42,559
for sure more than one hundred things have gone wrong

177
00:08:42,600 --> 00:08:44,759
in my career. It's just you know, having remembered them

178
00:08:44,759 --> 00:08:46,600
and where I've written them down like that must have

179
00:08:46,639 --> 00:08:48,000
taken some effort on your part.

180
00:08:48,600 --> 00:08:51,559
Speaker 5: I am a compulsive I mean I showed you guys

181
00:08:51,600 --> 00:08:54,639
in the previam I am a compulsive note taker and

182
00:08:54,960 --> 00:08:56,200
journaler and whatnot.

183
00:08:56,279 --> 00:08:57,960
Speaker 4: I actually had multiple journals.

184
00:08:57,639 --> 00:08:59,679
Speaker 5: And a journalists side on that journal here, journal there,

185
00:09:00,679 --> 00:09:01,919
business notebooks.

186
00:09:01,960 --> 00:09:04,120
Speaker 4: So I piece it together.

187
00:09:04,120 --> 00:09:07,120
Speaker 5: And you know, if I'm not if I write it

188
00:09:07,159 --> 00:09:10,360
down another scenario, if something goes wrong, I also make

189
00:09:10,399 --> 00:09:11,240
a comic about it.

190
00:09:11,159 --> 00:09:11,799
Speaker 4: Sometimes, so.

191
00:09:14,159 --> 00:09:17,279
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, you shared some of your comics with us

192
00:09:18,080 --> 00:09:23,159
when we were emailing back and forth. Is that are

193
00:09:23,200 --> 00:09:24,559
theose something you publish regularly?

194
00:09:25,720 --> 00:09:26,759
Speaker 4: I try and do them.

195
00:09:26,840 --> 00:09:28,919
Speaker 5: I was doing them twice a week, but now that

196
00:09:29,039 --> 00:09:32,159
my content schedule has changed, I'm doing more video content

197
00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:34,000
publicly again, I'm probably only.

198
00:09:33,799 --> 00:09:36,600
Speaker 4: Going to do once a week. But we'll see.

199
00:09:37,440 --> 00:09:39,840
Speaker 3: That's still a lot. That's you know, fifty two a year.

200
00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:41,639
That's still a lot of content.

201
00:09:42,519 --> 00:09:43,080
Speaker 4: I'll be honest.

202
00:09:43,080 --> 00:09:46,639
Speaker 5: They're not all bangers, but some of them take Yeah,

203
00:09:46,679 --> 00:09:48,799
I printed out this was the first one that broke

204
00:09:48,840 --> 00:09:49,759
a hundred thousand.

205
00:09:49,559 --> 00:09:52,440
Speaker 4: Views on Reddit, soo I was. I was pretty happy

206
00:09:52,440 --> 00:09:56,480
about that. This one was a banger too. But don't

207
00:09:56,480 --> 00:09:57,919
get the coffee cut yet. I got to work out

208
00:09:57,960 --> 00:09:58,919
the details and those.

209
00:09:59,480 --> 00:10:05,840
Speaker 3: R Do you find that through through your I mean

210
00:10:06,519 --> 00:10:09,759
capting journals of all of the different scenarios and what

211
00:10:09,799 --> 00:10:12,279
had happened, what went wrong, and how it was fixed, Like,

212
00:10:12,399 --> 00:10:15,600
did that have a beneficial impact for your career? Did

213
00:10:15,600 --> 00:10:19,080
you just find that you are able to consume that

214
00:10:19,240 --> 00:10:22,320
information now to make the cloud war games?

215
00:10:23,840 --> 00:10:25,919
Speaker 5: I mean I had thought and this this idea. I

216
00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:27,759
thought about coming back to you for a long time. So

217
00:10:27,799 --> 00:10:29,679
I have been keeping a lot of times now. I mean,

218
00:10:29,720 --> 00:10:31,679
I will just write a deal to time deal with emailing.

219
00:10:31,720 --> 00:10:34,200
Listen if there's something that goes wrong or something I

220
00:10:34,360 --> 00:10:35,879
hear about. There's one that I want to really run

221
00:10:35,919 --> 00:10:39,279
a center through the S three ransomware attackers out there.

222
00:10:39,360 --> 00:10:41,759
Right now, I'm gonna I'm gonna attack myself with that

223
00:10:41,840 --> 00:10:43,960
and that should be fun. But yeah, I write it

224
00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:47,000
down and and nail it out, you know people. So now, yeah,

225
00:10:47,039 --> 00:10:49,840
I guess collecting all that data has been helpful. I

226
00:10:49,879 --> 00:10:52,600
mean the last year I've been better. I hired a

227
00:10:52,600 --> 00:10:56,000
business coas and have been better at sharing that information,

228
00:10:56,240 --> 00:10:58,720
you know, before I write it down just because I

229
00:10:58,960 --> 00:11:01,759
pecically take notes. And then now it's like I'm actually

230
00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:05,960
finding and helping other people get up based on Amazon,

231
00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:08,600
you get up there, you know, on things I'm an

232
00:11:08,600 --> 00:11:11,519
expert and I enjoy doing so. Yes, I think it's

233
00:11:11,559 --> 00:11:14,840
kind of beneficial impact that I didn't really capitalize on

234
00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:16,039
that and self care of that recently.

235
00:11:16,519 --> 00:11:18,559
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean the fact you just mentioned this, like,

236
00:11:18,600 --> 00:11:21,360
I can't believe I haven't been keeping track of every

237
00:11:21,720 --> 00:11:23,960
single bug that I run into that as some sort

238
00:11:23,960 --> 00:11:27,080
of you know, owt as it turns out, you know,

239
00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:29,320
and then a story because I feel like there is

240
00:11:29,360 --> 00:11:33,600
some novel, interesting thing there that is worth sharing. And

241
00:11:33,639 --> 00:11:35,799
now I'm starting to think, like would I give this

242
00:11:35,840 --> 00:11:39,840
advice to even experience senior engineers, Like, oh, you know what,

243
00:11:40,039 --> 00:11:43,159
like start keeping a personal journal of these sorts of things.

244
00:11:43,240 --> 00:11:45,600
I mean I usually talk about in business context, like

245
00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:47,600
it's great to keep track of what you're doing from

246
00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:50,120
like a brag standpoint, so that you can report on

247
00:11:50,200 --> 00:11:54,879
it during your hopefully quarterly performance evaluation. Like you have

248
00:11:54,919 --> 00:11:57,759
a list already of everything you've done, and I think

249
00:11:57,759 --> 00:11:59,120
there's a lot to be said there. But I think

250
00:11:59,120 --> 00:12:02,799
there's another level of like the interesting technical challenges that

251
00:12:02,879 --> 00:12:05,600
you had to face and how you sort of tackle them,

252
00:12:05,639 --> 00:12:08,720
because like you've already found a new opportunity based off

253
00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:11,960
of what you've written down to you know, turn into

254
00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:12,480
a business.

255
00:12:13,320 --> 00:12:13,559
Speaker 4: Yeah.

256
00:12:13,639 --> 00:12:16,360
Speaker 5: I mean, it's a good habit to do after action reports,

257
00:12:16,440 --> 00:12:18,559
especially when you're training in a junior or something like that.

258
00:12:18,919 --> 00:12:21,639
You know they make mistake, you know, a fairly expensive mistake.

259
00:12:21,759 --> 00:12:22,960
Speaker 4: Maybe you know they.

260
00:12:22,799 --> 00:12:25,519
Speaker 5: Delete something they shouldn't, and then you've got two options.

261
00:12:25,519 --> 00:12:27,399
You could slap on the risk and say you know

262
00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:29,559
you're in trouble, get it, or you say.

263
00:12:29,360 --> 00:12:30,399
Speaker 4: What did you learn from this?

264
00:12:30,879 --> 00:12:33,639
Speaker 5: We just you know, say I got a client, you know,

265
00:12:33,639 --> 00:12:35,399
their website goes down, and say it costs some one

266
00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:38,159
hundred thousand dollars an hour. Junior takes down that website

267
00:12:38,159 --> 00:12:39,759
for a while and they can look at it like,

268
00:12:39,799 --> 00:12:41,240
oh my god, we've lost all this money. Or you

269
00:12:41,320 --> 00:12:44,399
just say, oh, we invested this much into our junior

270
00:12:44,519 --> 00:12:47,799
running important lesson. Let's have them present that in and

271
00:12:47,879 --> 00:12:48,679
after action.

272
00:12:48,519 --> 00:12:50,440
Speaker 4: Report to the whole team. So we've got you know,

273
00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:51,480
there's a positive from it.

274
00:12:51,759 --> 00:12:54,919
Speaker 5: Here's you're writing the SOPs for the business standard operating

275
00:12:55,039 --> 00:12:55,960
tenders for the business.

276
00:12:56,159 --> 00:12:57,759
Speaker 4: I don't know what not to do.

277
00:12:57,759 --> 00:13:01,799
Speaker 5: You know, sm I try and push towards my developers.

278
00:13:01,879 --> 00:13:04,960
No fail forward faster, no where to fail at where

279
00:13:04,960 --> 00:13:07,600
you can make mistage at, you know, fail on stage,

280
00:13:08,200 --> 00:13:10,159
nuke staging out of the water and slow down our

281
00:13:10,159 --> 00:13:12,799
dev for a day, pretty our identity for a day.

282
00:13:12,759 --> 00:13:15,240
It still costs us less than if you knew production

283
00:13:15,399 --> 00:13:16,399
for even a few minutes.

284
00:13:16,480 --> 00:13:19,120
Speaker 4: You know, So learn where to fail, learn how to fail.

285
00:13:19,240 --> 00:13:22,360
And so this is one of those ranks that you're

286
00:13:22,360 --> 00:13:23,440
working out.

287
00:13:26,919 --> 00:13:28,759
Speaker 1: I want to come back to something. There's been a

288
00:13:28,799 --> 00:13:31,440
couple of things you've said that have stood out to me,

289
00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:33,279
and I want to come back to those, even though

290
00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:37,399
they have nothing to do with Cloudwardgames dot Com. You

291
00:13:37,480 --> 00:13:41,480
mentioned that you're in a Mastermind and then you also

292
00:13:41,559 --> 00:13:43,679
talked about your journaling, and those are two of like

293
00:13:43,799 --> 00:13:48,840
the consistent things that like, if you study like high impact,

294
00:13:48,919 --> 00:13:52,840
high performing people, like those two things come up over

295
00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:55,919
and over again. So how did you get into a

296
00:13:55,960 --> 00:13:57,679
Mastermind and what does that look like for you?

297
00:13:59,120 --> 00:14:04,360
Speaker 5: I'm actually in several and we can do a whole

298
00:14:04,360 --> 00:14:07,120
other podcasts and consulting side of things, instruction in your business,

299
00:14:07,159 --> 00:14:11,240
which I'm gonna save for another time, but there's one

300
00:14:11,279 --> 00:14:14,960
where I am a group coaching where they do live

301
00:14:15,039 --> 00:14:19,080
q and a's and stuff like that aimed at solo consultants,

302
00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:22,159
expertise people who want to put themselves as expert. And

303
00:14:22,159 --> 00:14:26,000
I would never call myself the expert, but I've been

304
00:14:26,080 --> 00:14:28,639
doing this a long time, so that's a good one.

305
00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:32,039
I had direct access to the main community guy there.

306
00:14:32,039 --> 00:14:35,080
And the other one is the room of around Robin Approach,

307
00:14:35,480 --> 00:14:38,360
where I found that one, I think through another community,

308
00:14:38,360 --> 00:14:41,440
a third community where it's actually got very limited interaction,

309
00:14:41,559 --> 00:14:44,320
but they do things and I can give you.

310
00:14:44,279 --> 00:14:45,600
Speaker 4: As the name of some of the stuff if you

311
00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:46,080
want later.

312
00:14:46,120 --> 00:14:51,279
Speaker 5: But I'm actually starting, I'm hoping to start another Mastermind group,

313
00:14:51,279 --> 00:14:53,639
but I kind of deprioritize.

314
00:14:52,879 --> 00:14:58,000
Speaker 4: That for CTO for Cloud of Organcy. Now I don't

315
00:14:58,000 --> 00:15:02,240
even remember the name of because that's that's got a

316
00:15:02,279 --> 00:15:03,320
lot of trash right now.

317
00:15:03,399 --> 00:15:06,919
Speaker 5: But I would strongly advise that, especially if you're going

318
00:15:06,919 --> 00:15:08,480
out there and starting on your own and you're not

319
00:15:08,720 --> 00:15:11,120
part of the big team, you're starting your own consulting,

320
00:15:11,559 --> 00:15:12,559
you need.

321
00:15:12,200 --> 00:15:13,200
Speaker 4: That sounding board.

322
00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:17,200
Speaker 5: I'm very fortunate to have a informal business partner that

323
00:15:17,279 --> 00:15:20,200
we have just we are always bouncing ideas of each other,

324
00:15:20,240 --> 00:15:22,320
because it could be, you know, in the vacuum when

325
00:15:22,320 --> 00:15:24,320
you're trying to get clients, it can be you know,

326
00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:26,960
very daunting, seem very dark.

327
00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:31,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, I belong to a Mastermind that I've

328
00:15:31,159 --> 00:15:36,480
been in for well over ten years now, and it's

329
00:15:37,080 --> 00:15:42,440
been it's been the difference in my career because, like

330
00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:46,240
our sole purpose in that group is to call each

331
00:15:46,279 --> 00:15:48,879
other out on our bullshit and hold each other accountable

332
00:15:49,240 --> 00:15:50,480
and it's made a difference.

333
00:15:51,360 --> 00:15:51,559
Speaker 4: Yeah.

334
00:15:51,559 --> 00:15:54,320
Speaker 3: We actually we actually do a full episode dedicated to

335
00:15:55,080 --> 00:15:57,120
Will being called out on as bullshit.

336
00:15:57,200 --> 00:15:59,639
Speaker 1: I mean, because there's a lot of it. Like those

337
00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:02,080
guys in My Mastermind, they have a full time job

338
00:16:02,120 --> 00:16:03,480
calling me out on my bullshit.

339
00:16:05,720 --> 00:16:09,399
Speaker 5: Yeah. My most valuable people are the people.

340
00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:11,960
Speaker 4: That have blunts us with me, you know, willing to

341
00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:14,759
be like stop building developer tools, you're fool.

342
00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:19,720
Speaker 3: And giving them away for free. I think that's the

343
00:16:19,759 --> 00:16:21,080
important caveat there.

344
00:16:21,840 --> 00:16:26,399
Speaker 1: Yeah, so for sure. And then on journaling, is that

345
00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:27,879
a daily exercise for you?

346
00:16:28,720 --> 00:16:31,840
Speaker 4: Yeah? Let the dogs out and then it's pretty much

347
00:16:31,879 --> 00:16:32,799
straight to journaling.

348
00:16:32,879 --> 00:16:35,399
Speaker 5: And then I've recently been trying to do more journaling

349
00:16:35,440 --> 00:16:37,399
in the evening actually.

350
00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:38,679
Speaker 4: The close of the thought.

351
00:16:39,519 --> 00:16:41,159
Speaker 5: I have a lot of trouble sleeping, and I wake

352
00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:43,840
up in the night and I'm like, all these things

353
00:16:43,879 --> 00:16:46,039
I should do, so right forward to bed. I try

354
00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:49,679
and write down anything that's that's open ended here and

355
00:16:49,799 --> 00:16:52,679
on theece of paper, and I got sticky nuts inside

356
00:16:52,679 --> 00:16:54,159
of the bed. They're like right up to do to

357
00:16:54,200 --> 00:16:56,879
do to do it that way, like okay tomorrow and Matt,

358
00:16:56,919 --> 00:16:58,559
we'll get to this. I don't have to be thinking

359
00:16:58,600 --> 00:17:02,759
about it. Let's me sleeps. It's a very strong tool

360
00:17:02,799 --> 00:17:03,039
for me.

361
00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:04,039
Speaker 4: Yeah.

362
00:17:04,079 --> 00:17:05,960
Speaker 3: I think there were a non trivial number of times

363
00:17:05,960 --> 00:17:08,039
where in order to sleep well at night, I had

364
00:17:08,039 --> 00:17:12,279
to write up a whole email regarding a situation and

365
00:17:12,319 --> 00:17:19,400
then just not send it. That's the important factor there. Yeah,

366
00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:22,880
for sure, when when you're when when you're frustrated, definitely

367
00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:23,640
don't click said.

368
00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:26,160
Speaker 2: But you know, it's because those those thoughts are.

369
00:17:26,039 --> 00:17:28,559
Speaker 3: Going around in your head, and it's like I'm constantly

370
00:17:28,839 --> 00:17:32,039
focused on whatever that is, whatever problem it is, whether

371
00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:34,000
or not I did the right thing in that situation,

372
00:17:34,119 --> 00:17:36,559
and sometimes just I mean I know from a fact

373
00:17:36,559 --> 00:17:39,039
now I have to terminate those threads, whatever the thread

374
00:17:39,079 --> 00:17:41,519
is that I picked up and I started just getting

375
00:17:41,559 --> 00:17:43,440
it done, whether it's writing an email.

376
00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:45,440
Speaker 2: I use like every single kind.

377
00:17:45,240 --> 00:17:48,920
Speaker 3: Of scheduling tool available, Like I will delay emails to myself,

378
00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:51,839
I will snooze them, I will send myself future emails.

379
00:17:51,960 --> 00:17:55,920
I'll use calendar events, anything to get stuff off of

380
00:17:55,960 --> 00:17:59,480
my radar and into some sort of temporal delay so

381
00:17:59,519 --> 00:18:01,319
that can come back to it later when I like

382
00:18:01,440 --> 00:18:02,240
at the right time.

383
00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:04,799
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's a big one.

384
00:18:04,839 --> 00:18:07,160
Speaker 5: I talk about you frustrated and you write that email

385
00:18:07,480 --> 00:18:09,799
when I get frustrated with something or possibly even a

386
00:18:09,920 --> 00:18:12,119
Kylie or something like that right under stick, you.

387
00:18:12,119 --> 00:18:14,240
Speaker 4: Know, and a month later it's a comic. So I

388
00:18:14,319 --> 00:18:15,200
just you know, that's how I.

389
00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:20,200
Speaker 5: Don't send it to them necessarily unless it's funny.

390
00:18:20,559 --> 00:18:21,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's great.

391
00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:23,359
Speaker 4: Right on.

392
00:18:24,039 --> 00:18:28,480
Speaker 1: So cloud We'll come back to cloud Board Games. You've

393
00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:31,519
got people signing up for it. Is it like, uh,

394
00:18:32,079 --> 00:18:34,960
are you operating it like scheduled head to head matches

395
00:18:35,079 --> 00:18:38,039
or is it a single player experience? What's the interface

396
00:18:38,079 --> 00:18:38,480
look like?

397
00:18:39,640 --> 00:18:42,400
Speaker 5: I like to do it with small teams, So I'm

398
00:18:42,440 --> 00:18:44,240
thinking right now, we've got four.

399
00:18:44,039 --> 00:18:45,000
Speaker 4: People in the hot seat.

400
00:18:45,119 --> 00:18:47,200
Speaker 5: We're going to experiment with our initial match. So that

401
00:18:47,279 --> 00:18:50,200
means they've got two events. Four people could be on camera.

402
00:18:50,519 --> 00:18:53,039
You know, MIC's hot and well hopefully anybody else that

403
00:18:53,119 --> 00:18:55,200
wants to be in the weightlist or whatever the gallery.

404
00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:58,759
They can chat quietly. But like I said, there's I'm

405
00:18:58,759 --> 00:19:02,799
going to do three tiers of it, and in the

406
00:19:02,839 --> 00:19:05,119
future I might do four people sign up for Big Dinner,

407
00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:07,279
four people sign up for Intermediate, four people sign up for.

408
00:19:07,279 --> 00:19:08,000
Speaker 4: Advance or something.

409
00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:10,640
Speaker 5: But you can kind of just hang around if you

410
00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:12,599
did the beginner one, and you can listen.

411
00:19:12,440 --> 00:19:13,680
Speaker 4: To the intermediate and the advance, but.

412
00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:16,079
Speaker 5: I don't want the advanced people solving the intermediate one

413
00:19:16,160 --> 00:19:20,079
instantly there. And so the way I do it is

414
00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:23,160
there'll be a pre kind of let's just say it's

415
00:19:23,319 --> 00:19:24,359
an hour long session.

416
00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:26,880
Speaker 4: First fifteen minutes. You can get in there, you get your pairings,

417
00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:27,960
you can I'll.

418
00:19:27,759 --> 00:19:31,519
Speaker 5: Send out network diagrams using my pixelert network diagram software

419
00:19:31,559 --> 00:19:34,440
that I use for my YouTube videos and ahead of time,

420
00:19:34,480 --> 00:19:36,200
and I'll set up the terraform ahead of time, so

421
00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:37,559
then people can get a feel for that.

422
00:19:37,599 --> 00:19:40,000
Speaker 4: But then we get in there, maybe you set up

423
00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:41,119
your dashboards.

424
00:19:40,680 --> 00:19:42,559
Speaker 5: You know, you figure out your firefighting tools for the

425
00:19:42,559 --> 00:19:45,920
first fifteen minutes, and then I do the brief and

426
00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:49,680
I say, Customer service just called and said, you know

427
00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:52,440
that we just sent out this is actually this is

428
00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:55,200
probably my first one, so preview for those of you guys,

429
00:19:55,279 --> 00:19:56,480
I don't know when this is coming out, but pre

430
00:19:56,599 --> 00:19:59,799
view for the first advanced one. Customer Service shows up

431
00:20:00,039 --> 00:20:03,000
and says, we just sent out a lot of emails

432
00:20:03,039 --> 00:20:06,039
from our primary email address that people will get and

433
00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:10,160
it's for a pharmaceutical add of some nature it's.

434
00:20:10,079 --> 00:20:12,160
Speaker 4: Like that, and we don't do that. So what just happened?

435
00:20:12,759 --> 00:20:15,519
Speaker 5: So and that happened to me? That did happen to me,

436
00:20:15,559 --> 00:20:18,680
and it also has account, so you know. And then

437
00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:22,200
after that, let's just say fifteen minutes to half an

438
00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:25,200
hour diagnosing, So you got to do diagnosis first.

439
00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:27,039
Speaker 4: And then from there they got to come up with

440
00:20:27,039 --> 00:20:27,519
a solution.

441
00:20:27,799 --> 00:20:30,839
Speaker 5: And I'm going to give re access to my aw's

442
00:20:30,839 --> 00:20:33,720
account to anybody on there, but I'm not going to

443
00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:34,279
give you a right.

444
00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:36,279
Speaker 4: Access, So you get to tell me the solution. I'm

445
00:20:36,319 --> 00:20:38,480
not never hearing anybody else right access to that.

446
00:20:39,160 --> 00:20:42,359
Speaker 5: And then from there, last fifteen minutes after action report,

447
00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:44,160
you know, I kind of get them peeped by the scene.

448
00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:44,839
Speaker 4: What did I do?

449
00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:49,200
Speaker 5: And how could you have improved the speed at which.

450
00:20:49,039 --> 00:20:50,400
Speaker 4: You diagnosed the situation?

451
00:20:50,599 --> 00:20:58,240
Speaker 1: So, oh, that's cool, that's cool. Are you recording these

452
00:20:58,279 --> 00:21:02,000
for like a dish, like creating a YouTube channel where

453
00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:03,240
people can watch it after the fact.

454
00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:06,640
Speaker 5: Yes, I mean, one thing I thought about is that

455
00:21:06,839 --> 00:21:08,759
one part of the needless thing is that there are

456
00:21:08,799 --> 00:21:11,799
so many AI generated resumes out there. It's tough for

457
00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:15,480
people software engineers, DevOps people to stand out and that's

458
00:21:15,559 --> 00:21:16,400
that resumes.

459
00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:19,000
Speaker 4: Also, so many people using AI codd.

460
00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:21,119
Speaker 5: And I'm not against that, but you know, the coding

461
00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:23,960
standard coding tests don't work so well. So this I

462
00:21:24,039 --> 00:21:26,200
want them to record it, and I want them to

463
00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:30,359
share that, be able to share this with perspective hiring people.

464
00:21:30,599 --> 00:21:32,640
On the other side of this, if you're hiring people,

465
00:21:33,079 --> 00:21:35,319
do you know that they're actually able to problem solve?

466
00:21:35,359 --> 00:21:36,640
Speaker 4: Don't you want to kind of get a feel for it.

467
00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:38,359
Speaker 5: Don't you want to see if they are collaborative in

468
00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:40,480
nature or they're more like I'm going to just go

469
00:21:40,559 --> 00:21:42,160
heads down and not tell anybody.

470
00:21:41,799 --> 00:21:43,720
Speaker 4: Who I'm thinking, you know, you you you want to

471
00:21:43,759 --> 00:21:44,440
get a feel for that.

472
00:21:44,519 --> 00:21:47,160
Speaker 5: Maybe there's you know, there's you want one to the other.

473
00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:49,279
Speaker 4: But this could be a really powerful hire tool.

474
00:21:49,319 --> 00:21:52,720
Speaker 1: I think, oh yeah for sure. Yeah yeah, because then

475
00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:54,839
you get like a little insight into what this what

476
00:21:54,880 --> 00:21:58,839
it's like to work with this person under pressure, which

477
00:21:58,880 --> 00:22:01,519
is everything that you want to know before hiring a person,

478
00:22:01,559 --> 00:22:02,799
but have no way to test it.

479
00:22:03,799 --> 00:22:03,920
Speaker 4: Well.

480
00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:05,720
Speaker 5: Yeah, and then the flip side, it's a great way

481
00:22:05,759 --> 00:22:08,440
to inoculate yourself to stress. I see so many developers

482
00:22:08,599 --> 00:22:11,839
and the you know, the the CEO comes running in saying.

483
00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:12,960
Speaker 4: We're losing money.

484
00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:15,519
Speaker 5: We're losing money, and they're screaming and everything, and they're

485
00:22:15,559 --> 00:22:17,480
just like, oh, they lock up, you know, And this

486
00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:19,480
evacuated from the stress.

487
00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:20,599
Speaker 4: You know we talked about.

488
00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:23,240
Speaker 5: I mean, back to my gymastics career. I'm pretty good

489
00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:25,400
at dealing with this type of stress because in my

490
00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:28,319
gymnastics career, if you're spotting somebody and you mess up

491
00:22:28,359 --> 00:22:31,720
that you could significantly injure or harm an athlete. You

492
00:22:31,759 --> 00:22:34,440
know this, some rich guy loses a bunch of money,

493
00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:36,359
but no one dies. And so if you put that

494
00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:38,160
in that perspective, it makes it easier to handle the

495
00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:39,039
stressing situation.

496
00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:44,480
Speaker 3: I mean, sure, there's not a lot of opportunity to

497
00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:48,640
practice emergency situations in yeah, attack right, and so the

498
00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:51,440
only time we're in that situation is when we really

499
00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:53,680
mess up. I mean, some companies do, like, there is

500
00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:56,279
this idea in the industry, oh, you should, you know,

501
00:22:56,400 --> 00:23:00,799
practice your run books, you know, databases being down, genal failures,

502
00:23:00,839 --> 00:23:03,960
et cetera. But I think that a majority of companies,

503
00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:06,640
the ones who need to practice at the most because

504
00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:09,599
they're too much in fire fighting modes, are exactly the

505
00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:14,119
ones who don't practice it. Yeah, so I mean this

506
00:23:14,119 --> 00:23:16,720
this could be more than just a hiring tool. Realistically,

507
00:23:16,759 --> 00:23:21,279
this could be like out of band practice for engineers

508
00:23:21,279 --> 00:23:22,920
at any company to sign up and be like, hey,

509
00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:25,759
you know, go through this equivalent you know, live training, right,

510
00:23:25,799 --> 00:23:28,880
continue education on how to do these things. Uh, you know,

511
00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:30,759
how are you going to respond in that situation and

512
00:23:30,799 --> 00:23:34,119
then potentially be graded or get opportunity like feedback on

513
00:23:34,799 --> 00:23:35,559
how they can improve.

514
00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:37,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean I could.

515
00:23:38,039 --> 00:23:40,799
Speaker 5: I'd see myself being bringing this into a large company

516
00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:44,119
and then looking at their infrastructure, setting up a drill

517
00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:46,480
similar to their infrastructure and knocking it over and doing

518
00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:49,559
trainings internally. I mean there's there's all sources of options.

519
00:23:49,559 --> 00:23:52,279
I mean back to the kind of individual side. I'd

520
00:23:52,279 --> 00:23:55,519
love to have a leader board and championships eventually. I've

521
00:23:55,519 --> 00:23:57,839
got ideas for all sorts of fun stuff to do.

522
00:23:57,920 --> 00:24:00,359
But yeah, there's I think there's a lot it can

523
00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:00,680
be done.

524
00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:07,119
Speaker 1: It could be like the next next iteration of like

525
00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:09,680
e gaming, like the professional gamers.

526
00:24:10,759 --> 00:24:14,400
Speaker 5: Yeah, you're actually not just I am a gamer obviously,

527
00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:22,400
but you know, a little more productive than just beforetnite. Yeah,

528
00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:24,400
so I think I saw will you're you run across.

529
00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:28,079
But I can see the Crossted games for you know,

530
00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:30,039
opspeakle for infrastructure people.

531
00:24:30,519 --> 00:24:31,359
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, for sure.

532
00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:33,359
Speaker 4: But let it.

533
00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:35,920
Speaker 3: I'm sure no one ever heard me say this before.

534
00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:37,039
Speaker 2: But you know, what I'm done with work.

535
00:24:37,079 --> 00:24:39,279
Speaker 3: What I want to do is go home and play

536
00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:41,880
another game, Like play a game that's exactly the same

537
00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:44,519
as what I do for work every day, you know,

538
00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:47,640
with with with high higher stakes potentially than what I'm

539
00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:48,440
doing at work.

540
00:24:49,519 --> 00:24:53,839
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's I'm hoping people do.

541
00:24:53,839 --> 00:24:56,079
Speaker 4: That so far. I mean, like people are interested.

542
00:24:56,759 --> 00:24:59,079
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's to be great.

543
00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:04,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think it's like, well, I'm going to

544
00:25:04,519 --> 00:25:06,920
make that a little stronger statement. I don't think. I

545
00:25:07,039 --> 00:25:09,720
know that there are a lot of people who are

546
00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:12,799
early in their career and DevOps is one of those

547
00:25:12,839 --> 00:25:15,960
industries that it's so hard to get into because you

548
00:25:16,039 --> 00:25:20,599
can't get into DevOps without having DevOps experience, and you

549
00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:24,640
can't get DevOps experience without working in DevOps. And this

550
00:25:24,799 --> 00:25:29,839
actually gives you a way to solve that problem.

551
00:25:30,039 --> 00:25:33,000
Speaker 5: As this Thursday's comic by the way, you have to

552
00:25:33,039 --> 00:25:35,640
have five years of experience for the century level job

553
00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:36,079
or whatever.

554
00:25:37,519 --> 00:25:38,799
Speaker 4: How do you chick that egg?

555
00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:40,920
Speaker 5: This might solve that problem though.

556
00:25:40,799 --> 00:25:43,839
Speaker 3: You know, yeah, I mean, I think that's sort of

557
00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:46,839
the same thing though, where like people don't leave the

558
00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:52,640
university and go directly into executive role where realistically part

559
00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:54,319
of I think one of the most important aspects of

560
00:25:54,519 --> 00:25:57,519
DevOps and sort of understanding the connection of the business

561
00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:00,480
and what you're trying to execute and running it and

562
00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:04,240
how that impacts the technology and what it actually means

563
00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:08,920
for uptime and providing that as a value add.

564
00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:10,559
Speaker 2: To whoever your users or customers are.

565
00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:13,480
Speaker 3: And I think, you know, one of the huge challenges

566
00:26:13,519 --> 00:26:16,759
there is that's just not really something you're taught in

567
00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:21,000
any level of education system. Like you don't go to

568
00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:25,880
your chemistry class or your physics or you know, calculus

569
00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:29,440
and be taught about how that provides value to end

570
00:26:29,519 --> 00:26:33,079
users somewhere and how critical that is. I mean, because

571
00:26:33,079 --> 00:26:34,960
if you were, then you could sort of maybe make

572
00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:36,440
the jump there. But I feel like that's one of

573
00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:39,440
the biggest things, the lack of experience, but also the

574
00:26:39,519 --> 00:26:43,240
lack of attention to how to utilize those skills.

575
00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:44,200
Speaker 2: In a real world environment.

576
00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:46,680
Speaker 3: And I think that like the email sent out that

577
00:26:46,759 --> 00:26:50,440
has a business impact starts to get like scratch that

578
00:26:50,559 --> 00:26:53,599
it's not just that there's an emergency situation. It could

579
00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:56,400
just be about a debugging experience, like how did this happen?

580
00:26:56,640 --> 00:26:59,599
But understanding that there is a real impact to real

581
00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:02,279
custom somewhere that someone will care and money.

582
00:27:02,079 --> 00:27:02,640
Speaker 2: Is getting lost.

583
00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:04,000
Speaker 3: I think that's the sort of thing that a lot

584
00:27:04,039 --> 00:27:06,960
of people are insulated throughout their academic career.

585
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:11,880
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's the I see engineers making a lot of

586
00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:14,680
decisions based on ones and zeros and not dollars and cents.

587
00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:19,759
I like that tagline. Yeah, I see it happen, and

588
00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:24,079
as a business owner, I have to take them into

589
00:27:24,119 --> 00:27:27,119
account the bottom line. Recently, I had a major outage

590
00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:30,160
for one of my clients right before the holiday season,

591
00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:34,000
and we had a triage. We actually had to decide

592
00:27:34,039 --> 00:27:36,440
to have a bunch of different domains. Kind of it's

593
00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:38,119
not Copra, PEPs or anything, but think about how like

594
00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:41,680
PEPSI owns Mountain Dew and it owns KFC or whatever,

595
00:27:41,759 --> 00:27:45,519
it owns Taco Bebble, one of those mister PIB was down,

596
00:27:45,799 --> 00:27:48,839
you know, was causing this to the traffics. Mister pip

597
00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:51,559
was causing every other site to have problems that rippled

598
00:27:51,559 --> 00:27:54,759
across the whole system, and we had the triage that say, listen,

599
00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:57,799
we don't sell that much, mister pid shut it down.

600
00:27:58,000 --> 00:27:59,799
We don't care, you know, so you've got to It's

601
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:01,880
it's interesting they'd do that in real time.

602
00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:04,319
Speaker 4: While firefighting that that was a pretty exciting day.

603
00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:07,279
Speaker 5: But same type of concept I see with the open

604
00:28:07,319 --> 00:28:10,880
source software where versus paying Amazon. If you're a big company,

605
00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:13,319
you've got thousands of people and you can save millions

606
00:28:13,319 --> 00:28:16,039
of dollars, it makes sense to host your own cluster

607
00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:20,160
of xyz. But if you're a smaller company and you

608
00:28:20,519 --> 00:28:23,119
forget the engineers forgetting that, oh yeah, my man hours

609
00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:25,720
are being wasted maintaining this thing and we're only getting

610
00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:28,680
an ROI of one third of what my man hours

611
00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:31,000
are spent. You know what they're paying me to maintain

612
00:28:31,079 --> 00:28:33,440
this cluster, then what are we doing it for you?

613
00:28:33,599 --> 00:28:37,000
So that's that's a very important skill that Yeah, you're

614
00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:38,119
a don't teach in school.

615
00:28:40,359 --> 00:28:42,079
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. I think it's something I've said on

616
00:28:42,119 --> 00:28:46,480
this podcast that at least a billion times, like no

617
00:28:46,599 --> 00:28:51,880
company cares about how tight and compact and efficient doctor

618
00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:57,000
file is, and because they only care about what value

619
00:28:57,039 --> 00:28:59,720
it's providing to the customers who are paying money to

620
00:28:59,799 --> 00:29:02,880
that business. And I think that's the biggest career advice

621
00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:07,119
anyone in this industry can learn, is your technical skills

622
00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:13,200
are a tool used by the business. They're not the product.

623
00:29:15,359 --> 00:29:18,119
Speaker 5: And to be clear, I'm not saying there's one right

624
00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:20,240
answer for the other. You've got to take into account

625
00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:23,000
the bigger picture and say, you know, we're a company

626
00:29:23,079 --> 00:29:23,680
this size.

627
00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:26,720
Speaker 4: You know, how much time should I be spending on

628
00:29:26,759 --> 00:29:28,880
this or is that moving the needle for the company?

629
00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:31,039
Speaker 5: You know, because you always got to pick what you

630
00:29:31,079 --> 00:29:35,480
know it is important there So sorry I didn't interrupt you.

631
00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:36,640
Speaker 4: No, I was done. That was it.

632
00:29:37,759 --> 00:29:40,279
Speaker 2: I mean, I think this goes in another direction as well.

633
00:29:40,319 --> 00:29:43,680
Speaker 3: And I'm sort of curious your perspective, Matt, is that

634
00:29:43,839 --> 00:29:50,119
right now? I know there's a allegedly the job economy

635
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:53,400
is not great for knowledge workers, and I am I'm

636
00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:59,400
curious if you see particular opportunities in some way or

637
00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:02,440
really like, how do you stand out? What what are

638
00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:06,279
there particular things that do help engineers in this area

639
00:30:06,559 --> 00:30:09,599
or throughout the industry stand out compared to you know,

640
00:30:09,599 --> 00:30:13,519
we talked about AI generated resumes or you know, other

641
00:30:13,599 --> 00:30:15,759
aspects that they could really lay on any any thoughts

642
00:30:15,799 --> 00:30:16,720
on that.

643
00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:24,160
Speaker 5: Yes, tons, The first thing is that with I'm actively

644
00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:27,640
talking to several companies that are creating large language model

645
00:30:27,799 --> 00:30:32,599
lllms to basically replace meat and my designs so they

646
00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:35,119
can just put in words and then it's spits up

647
00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:38,200
terra form and it goes There's they're not there yet,

648
00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:40,640
They're a long way from it be able to maintain it,

649
00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:43,880
but they'll get there. So that means I'm out. That's

650
00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:49,000
my whole job there. But just like elevator operators back

651
00:30:49,039 --> 00:30:50,519
in the day, when's the last time you saw an

652
00:30:50,519 --> 00:30:51,400
elevator operator?

653
00:30:51,799 --> 00:30:52,799
Speaker 4: I think quite some time?

654
00:30:52,839 --> 00:30:54,960
Speaker 5: You know, So that who wants to stand in a

655
00:30:55,039 --> 00:30:59,000
hot box people's you know, inclosed space like that, especially

656
00:30:59,000 --> 00:30:59,839
after COVID and everything.

657
00:30:59,839 --> 00:31:00,400
Speaker 4: Oh my gosh.

658
00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:04,559
Speaker 5: You know, so you no nowhere elevator operators, but they

659
00:31:04,559 --> 00:31:07,319
need engineers to maintain those things.

660
00:31:07,359 --> 00:31:09,680
Speaker 4: You know, you don't those things fall apart. That could

661
00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:10,519
be real bad for you.

662
00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:14,640
Speaker 5: So you've got to evolve. That's something that I can't

663
00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:18,279
emphasize enough is to evolve and change your skills, you know,

664
00:31:18,359 --> 00:31:21,359
holding on to that position like Okay, I'm going to

665
00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:23,759
be there one typing in the code at the CSS

666
00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:25,559
or pixel push and you're like, no, you want to

667
00:31:25,599 --> 00:31:28,480
be a step above that and you want to find

668
00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:32,200
that next step. So things I do to stand out,

669
00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:35,359
I mean, I make sure they see my face. I

670
00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:37,400
do a ton of content on stuff I try, and

671
00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:40,799
you know, basically, I mean, I'll be honest with my content.

672
00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:42,920
Sometimes I'm just reading in the news and that way

673
00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:44,920
they see my face and they could recognize me there.

674
00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:47,599
But that's something I personally had to get over. I'm

675
00:31:47,599 --> 00:31:49,880
an introvert. Oddly enough, I probably don't see it, but

676
00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:53,759
I introvert by nature, extrovert by necessity. So you know,

677
00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:56,559
don't be afraid to make videos about stuff. Some of

678
00:31:56,559 --> 00:31:58,960
my videos, one of my videos from As Always Bugs

679
00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:01,160
with Me, I did a video where I was trilaborating

680
00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:05,799
Wi Fi signals in between projects to track down printers

681
00:32:05,799 --> 00:32:08,799
and different things, just because I was bored out of

682
00:32:08,839 --> 00:32:10,480
my mind, and I put it on YouTube and it's

683
00:32:10,519 --> 00:32:13,240
still one of my most popular videos. And I don't

684
00:32:13,319 --> 00:32:17,480
do that and I have no cap so stuff like that,

685
00:32:17,559 --> 00:32:19,759
you know, the communication, that's a huge skill.

686
00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:20,200
Speaker 4: You need it.

687
00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:22,240
Speaker 5: I mean, even if you're typing into an LLM, some

688
00:32:22,359 --> 00:32:24,319
guy in a suit is gonna come up and say hey,

689
00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:27,400
we need this bigger picture thing, and then you can

690
00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:30,400
sure go ahead type of army of lms and have

691
00:32:30,519 --> 00:32:33,240
it generated. But they can't do that prompt. There's values

692
00:32:33,279 --> 00:32:35,799
to you doing that. So find a way to bridge

693
00:32:35,839 --> 00:32:38,000
that gap between human and machine. It's just we're just

694
00:32:38,079 --> 00:32:42,119
changing the way that works, you know. So find ways

695
00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:44,440
to add value to other people. And that's one thing

696
00:32:44,519 --> 00:32:46,400
I obsess over my clients. It's like, I'll help my

697
00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:49,359
clients like source other developers. Now that this tool here,

698
00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:51,640
my winners, I'm going to send rades to my clients

699
00:32:51,799 --> 00:32:52,640
like you need a guy.

700
00:32:52,759 --> 00:32:54,599
Speaker 4: You know, I'm a girl that need a person. Whatever.

701
00:32:55,519 --> 00:32:58,000
Speaker 5: Here you go, this is this one just won, This

702
00:32:58,079 --> 00:33:00,519
one solved my puzzle and two second and flat.

703
00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:03,519
Speaker 4: So yeah, that's what I would do.

704
00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:06,160
Speaker 5: Communicate, that's it, you know, you give them a wise

705
00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:08,319
service there and don't communicate the same way everybody else's

706
00:33:08,359 --> 00:33:10,640
There's a reason I use pixelart everywhere.

707
00:33:10,839 --> 00:33:13,519
Speaker 4: People remember, I love my client's death.

708
00:33:13,519 --> 00:33:16,400
Speaker 5: They gained as kids, you know, we're the perfectations of

709
00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:19,359
the games of kids. They remember, you know, Mario pros

710
00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:22,319
and so they see that and they remember, so standout

711
00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:26,960
and and and communicate quite a bit.

712
00:33:27,839 --> 00:33:31,200
Speaker 3: I love the perspective on spend some time creating content

713
00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:34,680
because you know, it really does resonate with the there's

714
00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:37,839
only so much you can do of practicing lead code

715
00:33:37,839 --> 00:33:40,599
interviews or learning a new programming language, but you know,

716
00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:43,880
really take that next step of doing literally anything else.

717
00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:46,920
You know, if everyone's focusing on tech, focus on creating

718
00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:51,000
content or making some artwork or you know, using l

719
00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:55,039
MS or whatnot, or hand drawn or you know, making comics,

720
00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:57,079
because that is some way that you can really stand

721
00:33:57,079 --> 00:33:58,599
out you can put on your resume. Oh yeah, and

722
00:33:58,759 --> 00:34:01,680
also all of these are me, right, you know, this

723
00:34:01,759 --> 00:34:04,319
is something about me that really stands out that's unique

724
00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:06,839
for who I am compared to everyone else who's trying

725
00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:09,960
to compete for the same job. I think right now

726
00:34:10,159 --> 00:34:12,719
it's it's I think this is always true. It's always

727
00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:15,239
now is the best time to say, even start your

728
00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:18,320
own company. I see like a lot of resumes are

729
00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:21,760
like practice projects by engineers who are interested, like, oh

730
00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:23,800
I made a recommendation engine or I made this other thing.

731
00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:26,559
And the most important question I always ask is why

732
00:34:26,559 --> 00:34:28,960
did you do that? Like what was your end goal here?

733
00:34:29,119 --> 00:34:30,519
And it's like, oh, I just wanted to do a project.

734
00:34:30,559 --> 00:34:32,280
Speaker 2: I'm like, Okay, well that doesn't really mean anything to me.

735
00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:37,039
Speaker 3: You had no bounds, no restrictions, no constraints on what

736
00:34:37,119 --> 00:34:38,920
you were doing. You just went wherever you felt like it.

737
00:34:39,159 --> 00:34:41,480
What's way more interesting is, oh, I was actually trying

738
00:34:41,519 --> 00:34:43,320
to make a business, or I was actually trying to

739
00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:47,320
automate my my pictures being uploaded to LinkedIn or whatever,

740
00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:49,119
and like I had a real problem that I actually

741
00:34:49,119 --> 00:34:51,000
needed to solve, and this is how I went about

742
00:34:51,079 --> 00:34:54,280
solving it. That's a way more interesting thing to hear

743
00:34:54,519 --> 00:34:57,039
as a potential interviewer. So you know, the content's great,

744
00:34:57,119 --> 00:34:59,760
the webcomics are great. You know, anything that really makes

745
00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:01,639
you stand out as an individual.

746
00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:05,280
Speaker 5: Yeah, Another thing that pops into mind is he here

747
00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:06,360
the t skill set.

748
00:35:06,719 --> 00:35:08,480
Speaker 4: You know, you don't want to be a generalist. You know,

749
00:35:08,519 --> 00:35:09,199
if you can.

750
00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:11,719
Speaker 5: Find a niche, a niche that's in demand, you know,

751
00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:14,719
then the volks and I think my aws.

752
00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:15,880
Speaker 4: Niche for my consulting businesses too wide.

753
00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:17,599
Speaker 5: I'm trying to figure out how to like zero that

754
00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:20,159
and like maybe I'm just going to do whaff you know,

755
00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:22,199
or now they've got these trainings, I'm probably going to

756
00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:22,719
focus on that.

757
00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:24,280
Speaker 4: But you know, I was thinking.

758
00:35:24,039 --> 00:35:27,199
Speaker 5: About just being the WHAFT command or web application firewall.

759
00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:29,360
Speaker 4: Can I fight d DOS attacks all day long?

760
00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:32,760
Speaker 5: And I could do a whole course on that, and

761
00:35:33,079 --> 00:35:35,840
Weld teach a whole course on that. So but yeah,

762
00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:39,039
find a niche that's in demand and dive in. And

763
00:35:40,519 --> 00:35:44,559
I've got a discord full of hotepodge of brand developers

764
00:35:44,599 --> 00:35:48,039
and they had these really cool projects, but they that

765
00:35:48,159 --> 00:35:50,519
are niche and they just don't showcase them.

766
00:35:50,639 --> 00:35:52,199
Speaker 4: They tell you about it in Texas like.

767
00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:56,280
Speaker 5: Yeah, cameras everywhere your computer, you can grow the screen

768
00:35:56,400 --> 00:36:00,199
just screen recorded and show this cool project, you know,

769
00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:01,280
off as much as you can.

770
00:36:03,719 --> 00:36:03,960
Speaker 4: Yeah.

771
00:36:05,039 --> 00:36:11,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's definitely we're moving from like a technical marketplace

772
00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:15,960
to a creator marketplace. And it's I think what both

773
00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:19,039
of you are saying really highlights that. It's that the

774
00:36:19,119 --> 00:36:23,440
technical skills are the foundation, but then as the creator,

775
00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:26,880
you have to to showcase and and market those to

776
00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:31,079
make you stand out and then identify like here's the

777
00:36:31,159 --> 00:36:35,119
thing that I do. Like on the te like you've

778
00:36:35,119 --> 00:36:37,440
got the top line of the tea here where everyone

779
00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:39,280
has the same skill set, and then here's where I

780
00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:40,079
go deep.

781
00:36:40,679 --> 00:36:43,920
Speaker 5: M Yeah, I'm not saying don't you know, don't learn

782
00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:47,199
things outside your purview, but don't make that your public

783
00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:48,119
facing persona.

784
00:36:48,639 --> 00:36:51,119
Speaker 4: You know, you I know how to do a lot

785
00:36:51,159 --> 00:36:52,079
of things. I could do.

786
00:36:52,079 --> 00:36:58,480
Speaker 5: Word press anybody ever, but you know, stay with I publicly.

787
00:36:58,519 --> 00:37:01,159
I have very particular thing I talk about, you know,

788
00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:02,800
And you've got a very short amount of time to

789
00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:05,679
get people's attention right now with you know, all the

790
00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:07,840
spam and garbage out there. So you've got to figure

791
00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:10,559
out a way to do that very quickly, and and

792
00:37:10,679 --> 00:37:14,480
find people that have your problem, not everybody. You know,

793
00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:16,840
I solve a million dollar problems for some of my clients.

794
00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:19,639
Not everybody has those problems. You've got to find the

795
00:37:19,679 --> 00:37:22,119
people that have the that you are the ass into

796
00:37:22,159 --> 00:37:25,559
their headche you know. So so yeah, be very aware

797
00:37:25,559 --> 00:37:27,800
and don't just cast a wide and that and try

798
00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:30,679
and pitch to everybody. Find the businesses that are suffering

799
00:37:31,239 --> 00:37:33,440
from your stuff. I mean, I've got criteria that I

800
00:37:33,519 --> 00:37:35,760
use for lead gien where they are the running at

801
00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:38,679
as great. You know, I have a very specific size requirement.

802
00:37:38,679 --> 00:37:40,000
I don't want to be too big. I've got an

803
00:37:40,119 --> 00:37:42,440
HR department. You're probably bigger than you don't need me.

804
00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:46,519
And then if you've gone down recently, then I'm talking

805
00:37:46,519 --> 00:37:48,880
to because you've you've got the pain you've like if

806
00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:51,760
your site's slowing down because you're growing too fast, I

807
00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:53,719
want to talk to you right away. You want to

808
00:37:53,719 --> 00:37:57,039
talk to me. So if you have that criteria, then

809
00:37:57,280 --> 00:37:59,639
it makes it so you're focus. You're not just you know,

810
00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:02,360
get being disheartened because you sent you know, a thousand

811
00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:06,639
resumes out to Glamo Joe. Is that you know it

812
00:38:06,679 --> 00:38:09,239
doesn't have you know, doesn't have the need that you

813
00:38:09,239 --> 00:38:09,840
can scratch.

814
00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:11,039
Speaker 4: You want to be like, this.

815
00:38:11,079 --> 00:38:13,800
Speaker 5: Is your problem, this is my this is my expertise.

816
00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:15,400
This is how I can solve that problem. Is how

817
00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:17,960
I've solved it. Hunderd times case site. It's a big

818
00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:20,159
thing I'm working on. Issue is getting more cases on

819
00:38:20,159 --> 00:38:24,039
my website. Show how you how you solve that exact problem, right,

820
00:38:24,119 --> 00:38:25,440
put a coin and the I'm gonna keep going.

821
00:38:26,039 --> 00:38:28,599
Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely, I know. I'm Now I'm gonna ask you

822
00:38:28,599 --> 00:38:32,159
another question, uh, like the sort of issues that you

823
00:38:32,679 --> 00:38:35,199
see come up for each of your customers and from

824
00:38:35,239 --> 00:38:37,400
your experience, do you feel like they are sort of

825
00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:39,960
repetitive in any way, like, oh, you've seen this problem

826
00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:42,679
before or do you see that some of these problems

827
00:38:42,679 --> 00:38:45,639
like they are actually nuanced and new in some way

828
00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:47,559
that you haven't experienced.

829
00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:49,480
Speaker 4: Yes, and no.

830
00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:54,800
Speaker 5: The the people problems I see, Uh, that pops up

831
00:38:54,840 --> 00:38:56,559
point a bit. So I don't do a lot of

832
00:38:56,599 --> 00:38:59,079
hands on work for my clients. I do advisory overside

833
00:38:59,119 --> 00:39:01,559
quite a bit. So they paired me with the project

834
00:39:01,559 --> 00:39:04,599
manager and they say, we've got this problem we want

835
00:39:04,639 --> 00:39:06,039
we want to scale up to this thing. I do

836
00:39:06,079 --> 00:39:08,199
a design and then I work with PM to hand

837
00:39:08,199 --> 00:39:09,880
that off to other people to do so I trained

838
00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:11,960
other people. I see a lot of people problems that

839
00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:15,800
are repetitive. The technology problem, yes, for nine times out

840
00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:17,159
of ten is.

841
00:39:17,119 --> 00:39:20,440
Speaker 4: A security group problem. That's true.

842
00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:25,039
Speaker 5: But with that said, past that, there's always new technologies.

843
00:39:25,039 --> 00:39:27,760
We're getting detossed in ways I've never seen before. It's

844
00:39:27,840 --> 00:39:31,599
it's quite fascinating. Actually, I got this, if you guys

845
00:39:31,599 --> 00:39:34,039
will indulge me, I've got one kind of more prop

846
00:39:34,199 --> 00:39:34,719
like the game that.

847
00:39:34,719 --> 00:39:36,199
Speaker 4: You guys might find interesting. Real quickly.

848
00:39:36,719 --> 00:39:42,679
Speaker 5: Sorry, I'm going to digitize this. I don't know the spinners.

849
00:39:42,679 --> 00:39:46,920
I've lost the spinner. Oh well, so you said you

850
00:39:46,960 --> 00:39:50,400
talk about the repetitive stuff. When I had some mid

851
00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:52,639
level junior devs. A lot of times they'd get stuck

852
00:39:52,679 --> 00:39:55,119
on things and they'd be like, I don't know what

853
00:39:55,119 --> 00:39:55,280
to do.

854
00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:57,639
Speaker 4: I don't do they come up to me and and

855
00:39:58,400 --> 00:39:59,880
a lot of times it became repetitive.

856
00:39:59,920 --> 00:40:03,320
Speaker 5: So so I took the top like ten or twenty things

857
00:40:03,360 --> 00:40:04,000
that I don't know.

858
00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:04,599
Speaker 4: I mean, you think that.

859
00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:10,039
Speaker 5: Happens, including chef the security group, you know. And I

860
00:40:10,079 --> 00:40:12,079
put a spinner on this thing, and I said, you can't.

861
00:40:12,239 --> 00:40:15,079
You can't bug me until you spun it at least,

862
00:40:15,199 --> 00:40:17,199
you know, I think I said three three times to

863
00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:19,840
try three different things on here, Like you got to

864
00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:25,000
tell me you've already checked the logs, you've already rt FM.

865
00:40:25,679 --> 00:40:29,480
I'm not going to explain that abbreviation, but yeah, add

866
00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:32,280
more logging, you know. So this is actually coming soon

867
00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:36,840
to h to cloud. At war games, they get stuck

868
00:40:37,039 --> 00:40:40,320
spin for the beginners take us away from the advanced people.

869
00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:46,079
Speaker 2: So you've got to free spind you know, spend Yeah, exactly.

870
00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:48,960
Speaker 5: A phone a friend as to ask your peer before

871
00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:51,400
you come asking me, like another junior might actually have

872
00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:53,719
this lead to work together collaborate.

873
00:40:53,239 --> 00:40:55,679
Speaker 3: People and not just in the same company, you know,

874
00:40:55,719 --> 00:40:59,800
I find that, especially above the senior level. A lot

875
00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:03,239
of engineers haven't realized that they can go outside the

876
00:41:03,280 --> 00:41:07,679
company to solicit assistance, Like you don't need to pay someone,

877
00:41:07,719 --> 00:41:09,920
but there are communities out there that you can go to.

878
00:41:10,079 --> 00:41:13,719
And it's so ridiculous to me that at like SMBs,

879
00:41:13,719 --> 00:41:18,840
like small medium businesses, like not giant modelists, you know,

880
00:41:19,119 --> 00:41:22,000
the fang companies, et cetera. You know, at smaller sizes,

881
00:41:22,039 --> 00:41:24,000
you just don't have anyone that's more experienced than you

882
00:41:24,039 --> 00:41:25,480
and the company. You have no one to mentor you

883
00:41:25,559 --> 00:41:27,519
no one to sort of bounce ideas off of. And

884
00:41:27,559 --> 00:41:29,519
they're like, well what do I do? And I'm like, well,

885
00:41:30,519 --> 00:41:32,760
how many how many discord servers are you in? Like

886
00:41:33,039 --> 00:41:35,639
I'm like in thirty or forty or something like. There

887
00:41:35,679 --> 00:41:38,159
are those out there where people you know, are willing

888
00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:40,480
to provide assistance if you just ask the question publicly.

889
00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:43,199
And the idea that they're just not even they don't

890
00:41:43,199 --> 00:41:46,400
even see this as an opportunity is like, like really

891
00:41:46,559 --> 00:41:50,639
great additional source of valuable information that you're missing out on.

892
00:41:51,320 --> 00:41:53,280
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, as part of the reason I am

893
00:41:53,320 --> 00:41:57,159
starting a community for my niche is that there's there,

894
00:41:57,239 --> 00:41:59,360
absolutely people are you know, where do I go?

895
00:41:59,360 --> 00:41:59,880
Speaker 4: Where do I go?

896
00:42:00,199 --> 00:42:03,559
Speaker 5: I love that I've got these communities I can go

897
00:42:03,559 --> 00:42:05,079
to about my business and all the other stuff. But

898
00:42:05,119 --> 00:42:08,119
if you if you're an engineer and you know, for

899
00:42:08,159 --> 00:42:10,880
a smaller company at least, and you're running on Amazon, like,

900
00:42:11,039 --> 00:42:13,519
there's probably no one else that knows more than you

901
00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:16,679
and you need answers, and it's like, yeah, you can

902
00:42:16,719 --> 00:42:18,800
take a course, you know, or take a bunch of

903
00:42:18,840 --> 00:42:21,760
tests and get certified, but it's almost better to have

904
00:42:21,840 --> 00:42:24,440
that mastermind group, that community you can you bounce off.

905
00:42:24,440 --> 00:42:26,760
There's there's some additional value to it. So that's with

906
00:42:26,840 --> 00:42:29,000
all the AI going on, you can ask chat, youpt

907
00:42:29,119 --> 00:42:31,280
all day, you know, to have somebody else that actually

908
00:42:31,320 --> 00:42:34,840
breathes and has a pulse that understands your pain. Even

909
00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:37,239
sometimes if you just event to about like ah, it's

910
00:42:37,280 --> 00:42:39,239
the security group for one hundred times, why did I

911
00:42:39,280 --> 00:42:39,440
make that?

912
00:42:39,519 --> 00:42:43,760
Speaker 4: I say again, you know, so I completely agree with you.

913
00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:46,119
Speaker 5: I think that's a huge value matter if you if

914
00:42:46,159 --> 00:42:48,000
you're not in one of those, you know, I would

915
00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:48,920
strongly recommend it.

916
00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:50,920
Speaker 4: Yeah.

917
00:42:51,320 --> 00:42:52,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, And it seems like cloud Ward Games is going

918
00:42:53,039 --> 00:42:56,199
to be like a foundation for helping you identify those

919
00:42:56,239 --> 00:42:58,679
groups because you get in, you start working with people

920
00:42:58,719 --> 00:43:02,440
that you don't know, and then you just start chatting

921
00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:03,880
from there. It looks like those are just going to

922
00:43:04,039 --> 00:43:06,320
naturally form as a result of this.

923
00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:08,119
Speaker 4: I would love that.

924
00:43:08,320 --> 00:43:10,599
Speaker 5: I hope, I hope there's some because you get some

925
00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:13,760
good relationships that are formed in foxholes.

926
00:43:13,800 --> 00:43:16,000
Speaker 4: So to say you're in the fire there, it's like

927
00:43:16,559 --> 00:43:18,760
you know, if if someone.

928
00:43:18,519 --> 00:43:21,119
Speaker 5: Cracks in the pressure, you know, but I've got some

929
00:43:21,159 --> 00:43:24,079
guys that I'm pretty tight with because we've splitted it out,

930
00:43:24,199 --> 00:43:28,719
you know, in bad times and you know that there's

931
00:43:28,760 --> 00:43:31,800
there's be amazed how quickly you forged those relationships.

932
00:43:31,920 --> 00:43:33,480
Speaker 4: Sorry, hopefully the audio is still good.

933
00:43:34,119 --> 00:43:37,559
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, the the worse the situation is the

934
00:43:37,599 --> 00:43:40,840
more interesting and honestly the thing that you can sort

935
00:43:40,880 --> 00:43:43,159
of look back at later to sort of enjoy it.

936
00:43:43,199 --> 00:43:45,719
The better the story it is that you can, you know,

937
00:43:46,280 --> 00:43:48,800
walk through like, oh, there was these decisions that were

938
00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:51,159
made and there were problems there and then and then

939
00:43:51,199 --> 00:43:52,920
you're able to tell that story later, Like it's a

940
00:43:52,960 --> 00:43:55,679
much better story if everything just worked right all the time,

941
00:43:56,079 --> 00:43:58,159
Like your job would be boring and you would leave

942
00:43:58,199 --> 00:44:00,760
after when you retired, be like you didn't do anything,

943
00:44:00,760 --> 00:44:02,239
but the fact you can look back and be like, oh,

944
00:44:02,599 --> 00:44:04,559
like there was one time the website was down because

945
00:44:04,559 --> 00:44:06,400
someone did this and it took forever, Like that's a

946
00:44:06,400 --> 00:44:07,559
great story that you can tell.

947
00:44:08,119 --> 00:44:10,199
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I tell my parents' stuff.

948
00:44:10,280 --> 00:44:11,960
Speaker 5: My mom was like, you know, I don't know how

949
00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:12,679
you can handle this.

950
00:44:12,920 --> 00:44:13,960
Speaker 4: This sounds so bad, Like.

951
00:44:13,920 --> 00:44:16,280
Speaker 5: Well, if this stuff didn't go down occasionally, we didn't

952
00:44:16,280 --> 00:44:18,840
get tired, we didn't get attacked like this, then I

953
00:44:18,880 --> 00:44:20,920
wouldn't have a job. So you know, it's kind of

954
00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:24,119
like that's there's Yeah, I find these kind of outliers.

955
00:44:24,440 --> 00:44:26,480
The problem is you design a system that's so solid

956
00:44:26,519 --> 00:44:28,960
doesn't go down, so then they don't need you anymore.

957
00:44:29,000 --> 00:44:31,719
But luckily the internet is full of evil people attacking us,

958
00:44:31,760 --> 00:44:33,880
so it gives me a job.

959
00:44:34,079 --> 00:44:35,360
Speaker 4: Sorry, that sounds weird to say that.

960
00:44:38,039 --> 00:44:44,519
Speaker 1: It's always opportunity somewhere. Yeah, so you've been you're literally

961
00:44:44,559 --> 00:44:47,000
just a week indo cloudboard games, right.

962
00:44:47,440 --> 00:44:48,039
Speaker 4: Less than a week.

963
00:44:48,079 --> 00:44:51,119
Speaker 1: But yeah, yeah, what was the trigger that made you

964
00:44:51,199 --> 00:44:56,199
decide to to start this?

965
00:44:57,239 --> 00:44:59,920
Speaker 5: So I had thought of it as a side par

966
00:45:00,199 --> 00:45:01,960
for my kind of community I was creating.

967
00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:04,000
Speaker 4: I wanted to help.

968
00:45:04,039 --> 00:45:06,400
Speaker 5: I'm trying to my mission try and finds many people

969
00:45:06,400 --> 00:45:08,960
that I can add value to their lives. And you know,

970
00:45:09,039 --> 00:45:11,880
some of my big clients, you know, that's that's great.

971
00:45:11,880 --> 00:45:13,920
But what if a mom and pop, tiny little shop

972
00:45:13,960 --> 00:45:15,119
comes to me and needs something.

973
00:45:15,400 --> 00:45:17,239
Speaker 4: I can't offer them as much one on one time.

974
00:45:17,239 --> 00:45:19,599
Speaker 5: So I was like, I'll build a community and then

975
00:45:19,639 --> 00:45:21,920
they can, you know, share information just like we've been

976
00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:23,639
talking about, and I can help more.

977
00:45:23,519 --> 00:45:26,119
Speaker 4: People and it works out for all of us.

978
00:45:26,159 --> 00:45:27,920
Speaker 5: But then I was in the Mastermind group and I

979
00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:29,239
was like, one of the events we're going to do

980
00:45:29,360 --> 00:45:31,119
is the wargaming and they're like, no, no, no, that's

981
00:45:31,159 --> 00:45:33,760
the front and center thing, like that's I can see

982
00:45:33,760 --> 00:45:36,079
companies hire you just go in and do war game

983
00:45:36,159 --> 00:45:38,400
through all these other things. And then they got me

984
00:45:38,440 --> 00:45:40,400
hyped up and I'm like, I'll have it launched. I'll

985
00:45:40,400 --> 00:45:42,519
had it launched by tomorrow. I said, I'll have it.

986
00:45:42,599 --> 00:45:44,559
I'll have a post, I'll have a video, and I'll

987
00:45:44,599 --> 00:45:48,039
have a landing page. And you know, I tied my

988
00:45:48,079 --> 00:45:50,360
hands because I in the same way with I was like,

989
00:45:50,400 --> 00:45:53,960
no coding, okay, you can't, no over engineering. Luckily, I'm

990
00:45:53,960 --> 00:45:55,760
a orrible designer, so I was like, I'm not going

991
00:45:55,800 --> 00:45:58,760
to design, I'll just use a template, and I set

992
00:45:58,840 --> 00:46:01,920
up just I'm convert kit dot com this landing page

993
00:46:02,280 --> 00:46:04,920
and I used calendarly to schedule the first couple and

994
00:46:05,000 --> 00:46:07,360
I just wrote some emails there so there's no coding,

995
00:46:07,360 --> 00:46:10,119
because I do have a tendency to over engineer if

996
00:46:10,119 --> 00:46:16,480
I allow myself. And so here we are Monday morning,

997
00:46:16,519 --> 00:46:17,199
and I had.

998
00:46:17,320 --> 00:46:19,760
Speaker 4: Five people signed up, and now it's doubled already.

999
00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:23,719
Speaker 5: It's overdoubled since then, so it's moving and now I'm

1000
00:46:23,719 --> 00:46:24,519
on this podcast.

1001
00:46:24,559 --> 00:46:27,239
Speaker 4: So yeah, it was just a masterminder. They focused me.

1002
00:46:27,360 --> 00:46:29,159
It really was going to cut away the other stuff

1003
00:46:29,159 --> 00:46:30,639
and focus.

1004
00:46:31,800 --> 00:46:35,519
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. That's like another benefit of that is

1005
00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:41,679
having people who will well, like you said, just focus you,

1006
00:46:41,679 --> 00:46:43,719
you know, because we tend to over engineer it. And

1007
00:46:43,760 --> 00:46:46,079
you think, oh, man, I've got to have a website,

1008
00:46:46,159 --> 00:46:50,440
and I need a database to store the people's information

1009
00:46:50,599 --> 00:46:55,840
and get their profiles, and I need authentication. And but honestly,

1010
00:46:55,880 --> 00:46:59,360
by having someone hold you accountable to it, you have

1011
00:46:59,639 --> 00:47:04,280
the VP in less than five days without having to

1012
00:47:04,360 --> 00:47:07,360
do any of that stuff that's not actually gonna test

1013
00:47:07,480 --> 00:47:08,800
your idea or not.

1014
00:47:09,760 --> 00:47:12,920
Speaker 5: Yeah, and I will say there's also some other factors here.

1015
00:47:13,159 --> 00:47:15,519
It's a hot dog business. Being as I had all

1016
00:47:15,519 --> 00:47:18,679
these other ingredients just sitting around, Like, I already have

1017
00:47:18,800 --> 00:47:21,519
open source terra form scripts I manage, and I used

1018
00:47:21,519 --> 00:47:24,079
to run my entire infrastructure and some of my client stuff,

1019
00:47:24,239 --> 00:47:26,400
so I already had that. Next so I'm like, oh,

1020
00:47:26,440 --> 00:47:28,760
I could spin up a domain that we can knock down.

1021
00:47:28,800 --> 00:47:31,960
Actually that box explodeme dot com yesterday, which is gonna

1022
00:47:31,960 --> 00:47:35,880
be attack, so I can spin that up. I didn't mean,

1023
00:47:35,880 --> 00:47:37,639
it's not quite ready yet, but I can have it

1024
00:47:37,719 --> 00:47:39,199
up in a few hours. And then all I gotta

1025
00:47:39,199 --> 00:47:41,239
do is take some of these scenarios that I've got

1026
00:47:41,239 --> 00:47:44,679
written down, make them more formal, you know, figure out, okay,

1027
00:47:44,679 --> 00:47:46,199
this is what I'm gonna do phase one, phase two,

1028
00:47:46,280 --> 00:47:47,920
and I will put some hints in there and stuff.

1029
00:47:47,960 --> 00:47:50,920
So I already just had these pieces of the puzzle

1030
00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:53,239
ready to go, and that they were just gathering dust.

1031
00:47:53,320 --> 00:47:55,679
I'm like, all right, let's kind of.

1032
00:47:55,639 --> 00:47:56,039
Speaker 4: Like hot dogs.

1033
00:47:56,039 --> 00:47:58,199
Speaker 5: There's a bunch of other pieces of meat that you got,

1034
00:47:58,480 --> 00:48:00,239
the little leavings that you put them together, and now

1035
00:48:00,239 --> 00:48:02,719
you got hot dogs in Bologne or whatever else. So

1036
00:48:03,519 --> 00:48:06,719
that was uniquely that I was lucky enough to have that, fortunate.

1037
00:48:06,480 --> 00:48:07,079
Speaker 4: Enough to have that.

1038
00:48:08,199 --> 00:48:12,639
Speaker 1: So right on, how long have you been in the

1039
00:48:12,679 --> 00:48:14,719
Mastermind groups? How long have you been doing that?

1040
00:48:17,119 --> 00:48:17,360
Speaker 4: Yet?

1041
00:48:17,400 --> 00:48:19,519
Speaker 5: On and off throughout the years, But I over the

1042
00:48:19,599 --> 00:48:22,840
last two years I really.

1043
00:48:22,599 --> 00:48:23,400
Speaker 4: Went edged down.

1044
00:48:23,679 --> 00:48:26,880
Speaker 5: I hired a bitch business coach and I think it

1045
00:48:26,920 --> 00:48:29,559
was twenty twenty two. They didn't quite work out, but

1046
00:48:29,599 --> 00:48:33,760
then I found this solo expertise one in twenty twenty three.

1047
00:48:34,480 --> 00:48:35,960
Speaker 4: At the beginning of that that was great.

1048
00:48:36,000 --> 00:48:38,480
Speaker 5: I actually ended up engaging the founder of that for

1049
00:48:38,519 --> 00:48:42,400
a one on one coaching and we met Yesterday's phenomenon.

1050
00:48:42,400 --> 00:48:46,559
Speaker 4: And then I threw a parallel I found a parallel group.

1051
00:48:46,440 --> 00:48:49,039
Speaker 5: That was more hands off, small best dot com that

1052
00:48:49,679 --> 00:48:52,079
then I found another person that was run another Mastermind

1053
00:48:52,079 --> 00:48:54,800
group that was more hands on, and I jumped in

1054
00:48:54,880 --> 00:48:58,400
with them, and I think I almost mentor them as

1055
00:48:58,480 --> 00:48:59,280
much as they mentored me.

1056
00:48:59,440 --> 00:49:02,360
Speaker 4: Luckily at this but I mastered my group. Is So

1057
00:49:02,440 --> 00:49:03,519
that's that's been.

1058
00:49:04,039 --> 00:49:06,039
Speaker 5: That was about nine months ago there, and I'm looking

1059
00:49:06,039 --> 00:49:07,960
for more and I'm probably gonna start another one in

1060
00:49:07,960 --> 00:49:10,920
the next few weeks, well maybe.

1061
00:49:10,639 --> 00:49:12,440
Speaker 4: Months, I just say next few months. I'm gona finish.

1062
00:49:12,880 --> 00:49:24,440
Speaker 1: Work right, cool? And then you're your cartoons that you

1063
00:49:24,519 --> 00:49:27,320
release Where do you release those at for anyone who

1064
00:49:27,320 --> 00:49:28,000
wants to see those?

1065
00:49:29,039 --> 00:49:33,159
Speaker 5: I have my mailing list, my socials, and then I

1066
00:49:33,239 --> 00:49:36,760
push them. If they're relative to terrorform, I push them

1067
00:49:36,760 --> 00:49:37,840
into terrorform.

1068
00:49:37,480 --> 00:49:40,880
Speaker 4: Groups here and there, our slash terraform, they're relevant.

1069
00:49:40,440 --> 00:49:42,800
Speaker 5: Our slash programmer humor. That's where I launched a bunch

1070
00:49:42,800 --> 00:49:44,679
of them. Those are the ones where I get the

1071
00:49:44,719 --> 00:49:45,480
most views.

1072
00:49:45,760 --> 00:49:53,159
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, And there was one week there was Yeah,

1073
00:49:53,159 --> 00:49:56,239
there was, there was one that was relevant to something

1074
00:49:56,280 --> 00:49:58,559
we said earlier that that just came out last week.

1075
00:49:58,559 --> 00:50:00,599
Speaker 5: But I don't think I can connected reads anymore.

1076
00:50:00,639 --> 00:50:05,440
Speaker 1: So the one you sent that cracked me up was

1077
00:50:05,480 --> 00:50:08,880
the Y two K one because I like, I know

1078
00:50:09,079 --> 00:50:14,440
people that in nineteen ninety nine they went into bunkers

1079
00:50:14,760 --> 00:50:17,880
and I've never seen them since, and so pretty frequently

1080
00:50:17,960 --> 00:50:21,119
I wonder like, wow, did they because some of them

1081
00:50:21,159 --> 00:50:22,920
were going to stay in their bunkers for like ten

1082
00:50:23,000 --> 00:50:25,760
or twenty years, and I was like, did they stay?

1083
00:50:26,440 --> 00:50:30,039
Like are they still alive? What happened when they came out?

1084
00:50:30,360 --> 00:50:31,679
And I don't know where any of them are?

1085
00:50:32,440 --> 00:50:34,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, I got to think and I was this could

1086
00:50:34,400 --> 00:50:34,920
be an annual one.

1087
00:50:34,920 --> 00:50:36,880
Speaker 5: Because this is actually I released on the thirty first

1088
00:50:36,880 --> 00:50:37,719
of December.

1089
00:50:38,039 --> 00:50:39,639
Speaker 4: I got to think of what's the dest thing that

1090
00:50:39,679 --> 00:50:41,639
you could go back into a bunker and live your

1091
00:50:41,639 --> 00:50:44,679
life and hiding for JavaScript everywhere?

1092
00:50:44,760 --> 00:50:49,440
Speaker 7: What they had a little bit of the controversy to it,

1093
00:50:49,440 --> 00:50:51,239
because you know, of course, as like half the internet

1094
00:50:51,280 --> 00:50:54,559
hates JavaScript and half the internet's like JavaScript, let's put

1095
00:50:54,599 --> 00:50:55,800
it in everything right.

1096
00:50:56,239 --> 00:50:59,679
Speaker 4: That helped it definitely helped it go up the numbers

1097
00:51:00,559 --> 00:51:01,039
for sure.

1098
00:51:01,599 --> 00:51:04,320
Speaker 3: I mean, if people I know about this as a controversy,

1099
00:51:04,320 --> 00:51:06,920
and I just I wonder if the people who are

1100
00:51:06,960 --> 00:51:11,119
against JavaScript will be more in favor or against whatever

1101
00:51:11,480 --> 00:51:15,280
LM generated programming language the whole world ends up utilizing

1102
00:51:15,840 --> 00:51:17,480
in the future. I mean, we'll be forced by our

1103
00:51:17,559 --> 00:51:21,679
robot overlords to use the one true programming language, whatever

1104
00:51:21,719 --> 00:51:24,719
that is. And I wonder if they'll be okay with that,

1105
00:51:24,960 --> 00:51:27,639
or whether or not they'll have wished to go back

1106
00:51:27,639 --> 00:51:29,360
to the days of JavaScript and everything.

1107
00:51:30,559 --> 00:51:31,960
Speaker 4: You just give me an idea for a camera.

1108
00:51:34,480 --> 00:51:38,280
Speaker 5: We're arguing about JavaScript versus not JavaScript, but what about

1109
00:51:38,280 --> 00:51:40,079
we can all agree that people that use no code

1110
00:51:40,079 --> 00:51:44,880
solutions are fools.

1111
00:51:45,800 --> 00:51:49,679
Speaker 1: I think I probably get pinned in the anti JavaScript

1112
00:51:49,719 --> 00:51:54,360
crowd a lot, and I'm not anti JavaScript. Like the

1113
00:51:54,440 --> 00:52:02,079
point I try to drill in there is the JavaScript's

1114
00:52:02,159 --> 00:52:04,519
not always the right answer, you know, Like you don't

1115
00:52:04,639 --> 00:52:08,400
hire a carpenter based on the type of hammer that

1116
00:52:09,320 --> 00:52:12,039
they use. You hire them based on their ability to

1117
00:52:12,119 --> 00:52:16,119
build a garage or a house or a fence or

1118
00:52:16,159 --> 00:52:20,000
whatever you are. And I think JavaScript, to me is

1119
00:52:20,039 --> 00:52:24,719
a tool, and so JavaScript's not always the right answer.

1120
00:52:25,079 --> 00:52:27,719
So it's not that I'm against JavaScript. I'm against saying

1121
00:52:27,800 --> 00:52:29,320
JavaScript is always the answer.

1122
00:52:29,920 --> 00:52:34,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I was definitely in my life on

1123
00:52:34,079 --> 00:52:37,280
the like they're just all the program languages are tools.

1124
00:52:37,320 --> 00:52:39,320
But you know, I've definitely come more around to the

1125
00:52:39,320 --> 00:52:42,000
fact that every single one of these tools has some

1126
00:52:42,159 --> 00:52:49,199
specific quirks which change the utility in the solution space

1127
00:52:49,239 --> 00:52:52,440
that we're in, and so it actually is more important

1128
00:52:52,480 --> 00:52:55,960
that we evaluate whether or not this tool, this language,

1129
00:52:56,000 --> 00:52:58,440
what it implies, how it works, who the maintainers are,

1130
00:52:58,480 --> 00:53:01,280
what their mentality for the long term is, for the

1131
00:53:01,320 --> 00:53:03,280
type of solution that we're building. And I feel like

1132
00:53:04,360 --> 00:53:06,639
we're still very much stuck in the fact of whether

1133
00:53:06,719 --> 00:53:09,199
or not people sort of like the tool itself, Like

1134
00:53:09,280 --> 00:53:11,679
I like cameras, I don't like cameras, rather than the

1135
00:53:12,280 --> 00:53:15,280
company that manufactures the hammers is who we should be evaluating.

1136
00:53:15,840 --> 00:53:20,320
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, from from a my thoughts on jobascript from

1137
00:53:20,360 --> 00:53:21,679
a business standpoint are.

1138
00:53:23,239 --> 00:53:24,440
Speaker 4: It's probably a little data now.

1139
00:53:24,480 --> 00:53:27,519
Speaker 5: But back in let's just say the mid twenty tens,

1140
00:53:27,880 --> 00:53:30,679
I can high if you're gonna if you're gonna write

1141
00:53:31,079 --> 00:53:35,360
PHP and have a website, you know you're gonna need

1142
00:53:35,400 --> 00:53:37,840
to have JavaScript in the browser. Right, that's just you

1143
00:53:37,880 --> 00:53:40,119
can't run PHP in the browser. Same thing with Java,

1144
00:53:40,119 --> 00:53:42,280
the same thing with a lot of things. So a

1145
00:53:42,280 --> 00:53:45,440
lot of these developers that I was finding had some

1146
00:53:45,559 --> 00:53:48,840
amount of jabascript background, and I found that you can

1147
00:53:48,880 --> 00:53:51,480
repurpose you know, that little bit of JavaScript in the

1148
00:53:51,880 --> 00:53:57,559
browser to run server side if you wanted to, much easier.

1149
00:53:57,559 --> 00:53:59,719
So it was more of a cost efficient thing. I

1150
00:53:59,719 --> 00:54:03,320
could a PHP dev that's full stat and nike them

1151
00:54:03,719 --> 00:54:07,159
a no JS dev without breaking the bank on that one.

1152
00:54:07,320 --> 00:54:09,480
With that said, now, with AI being a big thing,

1153
00:54:10,119 --> 00:54:11,920
it would be silly to try and use to run

1154
00:54:11,920 --> 00:54:12,360
their own.

1155
00:54:12,199 --> 00:54:15,079
Speaker 4: Networks in JavaScript. I know because I've tried it. Probably

1156
00:54:15,079 --> 00:54:15,599
not a good.

1157
00:54:15,480 --> 00:54:20,760
Speaker 5: Idea, So but no yeah, you can you So you're right,

1158
00:54:20,760 --> 00:54:21,960
you got to pick the right tool for the job.

1159
00:54:22,000 --> 00:54:24,119
Speaker 4: But it was strictly on like a who could I

1160
00:54:24,280 --> 00:54:24,880
you know, we can.

1161
00:54:24,719 --> 00:54:28,159
Speaker 5: Cast a wider net and hire people that have JavaScript experience,

1162
00:54:28,880 --> 00:54:30,599
and you know, so we can get a wider range

1163
00:54:30,639 --> 00:54:33,079
of people coming in, better applicants and ideally a better outcome.

1164
00:54:33,119 --> 00:54:36,199
Speaker 4: So that was that's that business. You know, numbers, you

1165
00:54:36,239 --> 00:54:38,880
got to kind of do that calculus as well. Not

1166
00:54:39,000 --> 00:54:41,159
the right tool for AI, not the right tool for

1167
00:54:41,199 --> 00:54:42,280
a lot of things.

1168
00:54:42,960 --> 00:54:44,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it might be the right tool for your

1169
00:54:44,800 --> 00:54:48,679
business because you just need a versatile programmer who can

1170
00:54:48,679 --> 00:54:49,559
get shit done.

1171
00:54:50,119 --> 00:54:53,199
Speaker 5: Yeah, if I'm hiring for the top Python dev, a

1172
00:54:53,239 --> 00:54:55,760
lot harder to figure out how to hire those guys.

1173
00:54:55,480 --> 00:55:02,679
Speaker 4: Than just you know, top job of death for sure.

1174
00:55:03,280 --> 00:55:07,199
Speaker 1: So for people who want to go check out Cloud

1175
00:55:07,199 --> 00:55:10,280
war Games, cloud wargames dot com.

1176
00:55:10,159 --> 00:55:13,239
Speaker 4: Cloud wargames dot com. Yeh, that's that's where you find it.

1177
00:55:13,280 --> 00:55:15,760
You can find me the time arm cloths. That's kind

1178
00:55:15,760 --> 00:55:17,519
of tells you all the different.

1179
00:55:17,199 --> 00:55:20,119
Speaker 1: Things I was trying to I was trying to tee

1180
00:55:20,119 --> 00:55:22,199
it up to let you plug the website, but then

1181
00:55:22,199 --> 00:55:24,280
I just plugged the website for you and stole the

1182
00:55:24,320 --> 00:55:25,679
answer out from under you.

1183
00:55:26,079 --> 00:55:26,880
Speaker 4: I sure did.

1184
00:55:27,920 --> 00:55:30,079
Speaker 3: For for the release of the episode on the website

1185
00:55:30,159 --> 00:55:33,039
adventure indevops dot com, there'll be a bunch of blurbs

1186
00:55:33,079 --> 00:55:36,199
along with whatever links you want us to post there.

1187
00:55:36,239 --> 00:55:37,800
So if you want to just respond to us after

1188
00:55:37,840 --> 00:55:40,400
the podcast, you know, all of the things that we've

1189
00:55:40,400 --> 00:55:41,719
talked about in this episode.

1190
00:55:41,920 --> 00:55:43,960
Speaker 2: For anyone who's interested, well, I'll be listed there.

1191
00:55:44,599 --> 00:55:48,119
Speaker 5: Sure, okay, well yes, Cloud wargames dot com is where

1192
00:55:48,159 --> 00:55:50,719
you can find that stemmatical dot com that's the worst

1193
00:55:50,719 --> 00:55:53,280
schematical al at the end is where you can find

1194
00:55:53,320 --> 00:55:56,880
most of my writings. Matical dot com and soon. I

1195
00:55:56,880 --> 00:55:59,239
haven't announced this publicly. It is the first time announcing it.

1196
00:55:59,280 --> 00:56:00,960
I actually just in the last three months of my

1197
00:56:00,960 --> 00:56:04,559
life building a video course for O'Reilly's the publishing company,

1198
00:56:05,000 --> 00:56:08,519
an on demand video course that very they wanted me

1199
00:56:08,559 --> 00:56:10,880
to say on demand on themand video of course for

1200
00:56:10,960 --> 00:56:14,559
o'riiley Publishing, and so that will be live hopefully by

1201
00:56:14,920 --> 00:56:16,440
the next two weeks or so, may go at the

1202
00:56:16,440 --> 00:56:18,679
time this comes out. So if you want to learn

1203
00:56:19,039 --> 00:56:21,360
zero to Hero and a w security and animated guide

1204
00:56:21,400 --> 00:56:24,639
to security in the cloud, then we'll be there.

1205
00:56:25,280 --> 00:56:27,360
Speaker 4: So if I'm overplugging this, feel free to cut it.

1206
00:56:27,360 --> 00:56:30,840
Speaker 1: But now I'm super interested in this. So now this

1207
00:56:30,920 --> 00:56:35,039
is an animated course on a w security.

1208
00:56:36,159 --> 00:56:38,159
Speaker 5: Yes, yes it is. Actually if if you want, I've

1209
00:56:38,159 --> 00:56:40,719
got a diagram here that I queued up. Okay, we

1210
00:56:40,719 --> 00:56:43,039
can cut this if you want. But if you guys want,

1211
00:56:43,079 --> 00:56:46,960
I'm actually we can play a micro round of cloud war.

1212
00:56:46,920 --> 00:56:47,639
Speaker 4: Game right now.

1213
00:56:51,039 --> 00:56:51,679
Speaker 1: Let's do it.

1214
00:56:52,079 --> 00:56:58,639
Speaker 5: Can I present here? Share a screen? Share screen this

1215
00:56:59,159 --> 00:57:02,559
right here? You guys tell me if you could see it?

1216
00:57:04,199 --> 00:57:04,480
Speaker 4: We can.

1217
00:57:04,639 --> 00:57:06,639
Speaker 1: Now anyone listening to the podcast can, so I'm gonna

1218
00:57:06,719 --> 00:57:07,320
narrate it for them.

1219
00:57:07,360 --> 00:57:12,599
Speaker 5: There, Okay, there we go. All right, we have our

1220
00:57:12,599 --> 00:57:15,880
infrastructure here. This is a network map, all right, and

1221
00:57:16,039 --> 00:57:17,480
we've got to use it right here. So this I'm

1222
00:57:17,480 --> 00:57:18,840
gonna go as fast as I can because I know

1223
00:57:18,880 --> 00:57:20,559
we're I want to be respectful.

1224
00:57:20,599 --> 00:57:21,920
Speaker 4: The timement. A request come in.

1225
00:57:22,199 --> 00:57:24,639
Speaker 5: It's the application load balance, or it's the it's the

1226
00:57:24,679 --> 00:57:28,960
application server. Then you're shopping cart, so I should set

1227
00:57:29,000 --> 00:57:31,440
the tone. E commerce store. You run an e commerce

1228
00:57:31,440 --> 00:57:34,760
store here, they're shopping cart stored and reddis so they say, hey,

1229
00:57:34,800 --> 00:57:38,199
I want to buy this thing. It goes into reddis

1230
00:57:39,159 --> 00:57:42,679
it goes back to the application layer, and now they've

1231
00:57:42,679 --> 00:57:43,719
added it to their car.

1232
00:57:44,800 --> 00:57:47,880
Speaker 4: And let's just say that they actually go.

1233
00:57:47,880 --> 00:57:50,760
Speaker 5: To make a purchase. It's the application server. We're doing

1234
00:57:50,800 --> 00:57:54,800
a vendor of an architecture. Maybe it's not the right one.

1235
00:57:54,920 --> 00:57:56,920
All right, We're gonna fgure about the animation for now.

1236
00:57:57,000 --> 00:57:59,480
The vendor and architecture pumps a kinesis that updates the

1237
00:57:59,519 --> 00:58:02,840
database it purchases made and updates the inventory management software

1238
00:58:02,880 --> 00:58:06,960
and updates the product worker which charges them and updates

1239
00:58:06,960 --> 00:58:09,000
the nail service and all that stuff. That All right,

1240
00:58:09,039 --> 00:58:10,320
I'm getting to all the details here.

1241
00:58:10,960 --> 00:58:11,800
Speaker 4: Here's the scenario.

1242
00:58:12,480 --> 00:58:16,039
Speaker 5: Okay, Customer service comes to you and says, we are

1243
00:58:16,039 --> 00:58:19,840
getting reports that people are missing stuff in their cart.

1244
00:58:20,400 --> 00:58:22,800
They they're adding stuff to their cart, and all of

1245
00:58:22,840 --> 00:58:24,599
a sudden, when they go to check out, it's not there.

1246
00:58:24,679 --> 00:58:26,840
Speaker 4: They go to another page, it's not there. All right,

1247
00:58:26,840 --> 00:58:27,280
what do we do?

1248
00:58:27,800 --> 00:58:30,760
Speaker 1: So I'm gonna highlight this real quick. We're looking at

1249
00:58:30,960 --> 00:58:35,400
an animated diagram of an AWS environment, right and is

1250
00:58:35,400 --> 00:58:37,719
this part of the Cloud Wars games interface?

1251
00:58:38,239 --> 00:58:39,559
Speaker 4: It will be, it's not.

1252
00:58:39,719 --> 00:58:41,880
Speaker 5: Actually this is running locally right now, because I've never

1253
00:58:41,920 --> 00:58:44,199
bothered to put it on a website, but it'll be

1254
00:58:44,360 --> 00:58:45,519
up eventually.

1255
00:58:45,840 --> 00:58:47,159
Speaker 4: I'll use it locally if I have to.

1256
00:58:47,559 --> 00:58:51,079
Speaker 1: For now, right on. Okay, so there's stuff's missing from

1257
00:58:51,119 --> 00:58:58,039
their cart. I'm assuming that the cart is persisted somewhere

1258
00:58:58,039 --> 00:58:59,239
in some data store somewhere.

1259
00:59:00,159 --> 00:59:04,800
Speaker 4: That is correct, It is in reddits right on?

1260
00:59:05,679 --> 00:59:08,000
Speaker 1: So do we have a way to check the logs

1261
00:59:08,000 --> 00:59:11,440
on reddus or check the whatever's writing logs to reddus.

1262
00:59:11,760 --> 00:59:16,480
Speaker 4: It's running out elastic cash. Elastic cash does have events.

1263
00:59:17,039 --> 00:59:19,639
Speaker 5: I don't know if you get directly to the logs there,

1264
00:59:19,679 --> 00:59:24,400
but you can log into reddis and run some stuff.

1265
00:59:24,400 --> 00:59:26,480
You've got metrics too, don't forget you've got you do

1266
00:59:26,519 --> 00:59:27,840
have five watch metrics.

1267
00:59:30,400 --> 00:59:31,159
Speaker 4: Good, I guess.

1268
00:59:31,159 --> 00:59:33,039
Speaker 3: The first question is, like, is the data in the

1269
00:59:33,119 --> 00:59:35,320
database where it's supposed to be if we're using reddus

1270
00:59:35,320 --> 00:59:38,480
like Reddit commander or something to tell us whether or

1271
00:59:38,480 --> 00:59:42,280
not the items are actually in the shopping carts that so.

1272
00:59:42,559 --> 00:59:45,639
Speaker 5: You go in there, you've got's call it one hundred

1273
00:59:45,679 --> 00:59:48,320
thousand keys and you look at it.

1274
00:59:48,360 --> 00:59:49,400
Speaker 4: There is data in there.

1275
00:59:49,679 --> 00:59:53,079
Speaker 5: You can I wouldn't do this step for you normally,

1276
00:59:53,119 --> 00:59:54,760
but I'm going to do it just because I'm speak

1277
00:59:54,760 --> 00:59:56,960
things long you go in there and you try and

1278
00:59:57,000 --> 00:59:58,840
add thinks to your car. Of course, you add things

1279
00:59:58,840 --> 01:00:01,800
to your car, you check yourself key against it, and

1280
01:00:01,920 --> 01:00:02,599
your stuff is.

1281
01:00:02,519 --> 01:00:02,920
Speaker 4: In the cart.

1282
01:00:02,960 --> 01:00:07,360
Speaker 3: There does the cart for the customers complaining? Uh, are

1283
01:00:07,360 --> 01:00:09,199
you able to have a session for that that you

1284
01:00:09,199 --> 01:00:11,239
can track the check to see if there are actual

1285
01:00:11,239 --> 01:00:13,079
items for that session in the cart.

1286
01:00:13,440 --> 01:00:14,519
Speaker 5: So this is this is where I want to go,

1287
01:00:14,519 --> 01:00:16,480
like a five ceented diet. You have a technical minded

1288
01:00:16,519 --> 01:00:17,119
customer or not?

1289
01:00:17,519 --> 01:00:19,519
Speaker 4: Okay, you just rolled. You have a technical minded.

1290
01:00:19,280 --> 01:00:21,320
Speaker 5: Customer, they can open up their browser and copy the

1291
01:00:21,320 --> 01:00:24,639
cookie for the session and send it to and so yes,

1292
01:00:24,880 --> 01:00:25,599
have their session.

1293
01:00:26,719 --> 01:00:28,920
Speaker 3: I mean I always assume they're not a technical customer,

1294
01:00:28,960 --> 01:00:31,079
and so you try to get them to purchase some

1295
01:00:31,159 --> 01:00:34,920
fake item in the cart that only only their session

1296
01:00:35,000 --> 01:00:38,760
will will have access to. This is a magic r

1297
01:00:38,880 --> 01:00:41,000
L right that allows That's brilliant attracted.

1298
01:00:41,159 --> 01:00:43,800
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, I love that if yeah, I was just

1299
01:00:43,840 --> 01:00:45,719
being nice because we don't want to be for the

1300
01:00:45,760 --> 01:00:46,199
second time.

1301
01:00:46,239 --> 01:00:48,039
Speaker 4: But yes, I love that solution. This is the type

1302
01:00:48,039 --> 01:00:49,760
of solution I didn't I wouldn't have thought of that.

1303
01:00:50,159 --> 01:00:51,679
I would have thought this is the type of stuff

1304
01:00:51,679 --> 01:00:53,199
you can get with these seven games.

1305
01:00:53,360 --> 01:00:55,199
Speaker 3: Well, we we gotta we gotta debug this stuff for

1306
01:00:55,239 --> 01:00:56,800
real all the time. At our company, I mean we're

1307
01:00:56,800 --> 01:00:59,719
not e commerce, but uh, you know someone we we

1308
01:00:59,800 --> 01:01:02,039
do log in and access control, and so it's always

1309
01:01:02,079 --> 01:01:04,239
a point of contention like why didn't this user have

1310
01:01:04,400 --> 01:01:07,719
access to this resource at this particular moment, and so

1311
01:01:07,840 --> 01:01:09,840
figuring that out, you know, requires a bunch of things.

1312
01:01:09,840 --> 01:01:13,719
So we have ways to give our customers information that

1313
01:01:13,719 --> 01:01:16,880
they can inject into their environment when they're performing the

1314
01:01:16,920 --> 01:01:19,280
sort of investigation that we can see on our side,

1315
01:01:19,360 --> 01:01:23,960
so that we can highlight exactly which traces make sense. Otherwise,

1316
01:01:24,000 --> 01:01:25,719
you know, you're looking at all of the data for

1317
01:01:25,800 --> 01:01:28,039
every customer in order to narrow that down.

1318
01:01:28,599 --> 01:01:28,840
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1319
01:01:28,880 --> 01:01:32,760
Speaker 3: So I mean you said technical customer or some magic solution,

1320
01:01:32,960 --> 01:01:35,239
and are we getting their items in the cart?

1321
01:01:35,440 --> 01:01:36,400
Speaker 2: Their session busted?

1322
01:01:36,960 --> 01:01:41,079
Speaker 5: You checked the session against the reddest statvasion. You have

1323
01:01:41,159 --> 01:01:45,000
the session key, there, items You're gone, not there there,

1324
01:01:45,280 --> 01:01:46,400
there's nothing, There's nothing but that.

1325
01:01:46,519 --> 01:01:47,400
Speaker 4: Y key's gone.

1326
01:01:50,119 --> 01:01:53,360
Speaker 1: So you mentioned elastic cash. I'm assuming that wasn't just

1327
01:01:53,519 --> 01:01:56,920
randomly throwing out words where's that at in this ie pline.

1328
01:01:58,119 --> 01:02:00,559
Speaker 5: Running on a US Is the lastic cash just don't

1329
01:02:00,599 --> 01:02:04,880
have the last cash service that runs value key stores. Okay,

1330
01:02:04,920 --> 01:02:06,639
I got a couple of different ones, but I picked

1331
01:02:06,760 --> 01:02:08,000
reddis this is my go to.

1332
01:02:08,480 --> 01:02:13,960
Speaker 1: Gotcha interested? So they put something through the browser in

1333
01:02:14,039 --> 01:02:17,719
the cart, never made it up, never made it into reddish.

1334
01:02:17,960 --> 01:02:21,599
Who's responsible for sending it to reddis to clarify?

1335
01:02:21,960 --> 01:02:24,320
Speaker 4: So just again, I'm giving you way too much here.

1336
01:02:24,480 --> 01:02:26,440
Speaker 5: I never said it didn't make it into reddis in

1337
01:02:26,440 --> 01:02:27,320
the first place.

1338
01:02:27,119 --> 01:02:31,400
Speaker 3: Just got deleted instantaneously, Like you know, by the time

1339
01:02:31,599 --> 01:02:33,400
it gets to the cart, by the time you look

1340
01:02:33,440 --> 01:02:35,800
at it, it's no longer there. So there could be

1341
01:02:35,840 --> 01:02:38,320
some sort of TTL on the items that are going

1342
01:02:38,320 --> 01:02:41,199
into the cart, or some other process that's eliminating them

1343
01:02:41,199 --> 01:02:43,079
from redus, or you know, of course not getting there

1344
01:02:43,079 --> 01:02:43,679
in the first place.

1345
01:02:44,360 --> 01:02:45,400
Speaker 4: M yeah.

1346
01:02:45,719 --> 01:02:47,760
Speaker 5: So yeah, So just to speed us along, I'm gonna

1347
01:02:47,800 --> 01:02:51,280
drop what I gives a hint uh that you do.

1348
01:02:51,239 --> 01:02:54,360
Speaker 4: Have cloudwashed logs for uh for reddas, so you could

1349
01:02:54,360 --> 01:02:56,000
ask me what they are saying.

1350
01:02:57,360 --> 01:02:58,760
Speaker 1: Well, what are the logs saying?

1351
01:03:00,199 --> 01:03:03,320
Speaker 5: Number of items is pretty number of items went up

1352
01:03:03,320 --> 01:03:08,719
the flat lined. Okay, see if usage fine, number of

1353
01:03:08,760 --> 01:03:10,800
evictions is up quite a bit.

1354
01:03:11,079 --> 01:03:16,079
Speaker 1: Evictions, Oh, so they they got evicted.

1355
01:03:19,920 --> 01:03:23,880
Speaker 5: Yep, and I guess the usual memory drop. So again

1356
01:03:24,239 --> 01:03:27,800
I'm gonna simulate this. Yeah, I wasted one of my

1357
01:03:27,880 --> 01:03:30,519
real juicy ones, but I guess it's probably good here.

1358
01:03:30,679 --> 01:03:34,800
Speaker 4: So yeah, so what what's the what's the solution there?

1359
01:03:37,079 --> 01:03:40,840
Speaker 1: So I don't use reddus a whole lot. So obviously

1360
01:03:41,679 --> 01:03:45,000
it seems like reddis evicted for some reason because it

1361
01:03:45,079 --> 01:03:47,840
either has like a max number of key values that

1362
01:03:47,920 --> 01:03:49,639
it can store, or it ran out of space.

1363
01:03:50,679 --> 01:03:52,719
Speaker 4: Yep, it is correct, it just runs out of dat.

1364
01:03:53,239 --> 01:03:55,679
Speaker 5: You can set aviction policy, but in this case, I

1365
01:03:55,679 --> 01:03:58,239
think the default is to just start evicting the older ones.

1366
01:03:58,639 --> 01:04:02,480
And so that's what happens, is they filled up. Maybe

1367
01:04:02,480 --> 01:04:04,199
it was a big shopping day, you know, only you

1368
01:04:04,239 --> 01:04:07,320
didn't expect this much. This many people put stuff in

1369
01:04:07,320 --> 01:04:09,920
the cart and so it filled up. Or I mean

1370
01:04:09,960 --> 01:04:12,280
it's again I'm gonna just kind of speed through this.

1371
01:04:12,400 --> 01:04:16,480
But possibly you could look at it and some change

1372
01:04:16,880 --> 01:04:20,559
made the payload of each key too big, you know,

1373
01:04:20,639 --> 01:04:24,360
So we added something and now we're cashing like this

1374
01:04:24,480 --> 01:04:27,719
whole structure instead of just the product ideas and quantities

1375
01:04:27,719 --> 01:04:30,960
were catching the metadata and the products.

1376
01:04:31,000 --> 01:04:31,559
Speaker 4: For some reason.

1377
01:04:31,559 --> 01:04:33,559
Speaker 5: Somebody actually messed up and put that in there, so

1378
01:04:34,239 --> 01:04:35,440
and now it's just bloated.

1379
01:04:35,519 --> 01:04:37,559
Speaker 4: So the fix would I mean, I get you.

1380
01:04:37,559 --> 01:04:39,800
Speaker 5: I'll let you guys present the fix if you guys

1381
01:04:39,840 --> 01:04:44,000
have anything there and to the problem.

1382
01:04:44,079 --> 01:04:46,920
Speaker 1: I think the emergency fixes increase the size of reddish.

1383
01:04:47,119 --> 01:04:49,960
Speaker 5: So that's that's probably what I would do, and then

1384
01:04:50,000 --> 01:04:52,400
the long term fix would need to fix the bug

1385
01:04:52,480 --> 01:04:53,679
that Adam.

1386
01:04:53,360 --> 01:04:56,119
Speaker 4: Catch all that so actually happened once actually happened. They

1387
01:04:56,119 --> 01:04:58,840
had a cash a bunch of HTML in there.

1388
01:04:58,880 --> 01:05:01,239
Speaker 5: That was like, I'm like, what this is adjacent objects

1389
01:05:01,280 --> 01:05:04,360
with HTML and it like what what are you doing?

1390
01:05:04,480 --> 01:05:07,440
Speaker 4: Your stop cashing that stuff in this thing. But it happens.

1391
01:05:07,519 --> 01:05:12,159
Speaker 5: So yeah, all right, congratulations after action report and so.

1392
01:05:12,280 --> 01:05:12,920
Speaker 4: On and so forth.

1393
01:05:13,000 --> 01:05:16,480
Speaker 3: So well, yeah, I mean this is great. I'm actually

1394
01:05:16,599 --> 01:05:20,039
sort of curious on the scenario. Is using reddis as

1395
01:05:20,039 --> 01:05:24,079
a temporary store for the cart common pattern in e

1396
01:05:24,079 --> 01:05:25,239
commerce stores.

1397
01:05:25,719 --> 01:05:26,719
Speaker 4: At early stage. Yeah.

1398
01:05:27,199 --> 01:05:29,559
Speaker 5: So a lot of my clients, you know, I love

1399
01:05:29,679 --> 01:05:33,039
the death clients, understand they you know, they start off

1400
01:05:33,039 --> 01:05:35,800
with something simple like WordPress and they start slapping more things.

1401
01:05:35,880 --> 01:05:37,800
Speaker 4: That not the way I would do it. Okay, not

1402
01:05:37,800 --> 01:05:39,079
the way I would do is. I mean, there's there's

1403
01:05:39,079 --> 01:05:40,960
a lot of data you can extract from carts. It's

1404
01:05:40,960 --> 01:05:42,599
not ephemeral data. You want to know.

1405
01:05:42,920 --> 01:05:45,719
Speaker 5: Who's adding what when, where's you can send a reminder, emails,

1406
01:05:45,760 --> 01:05:46,239
all stuff.

1407
01:05:46,239 --> 01:05:49,280
Speaker 4: But a lot of times with.

1408
01:05:49,480 --> 01:05:51,679
Speaker 5: Dev's, a lot of times it's the stuff everything in

1409
01:05:51,679 --> 01:05:53,360
the session and then prey.

1410
01:05:53,719 --> 01:05:58,079
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I get I get the perspective of

1411
01:05:58,480 --> 01:06:01,119
knowing that it's temporary data. It's not the order hasn't

1412
01:06:01,159 --> 01:06:03,199
been created yet, so storing it in a data store

1413
01:06:03,199 --> 01:06:05,400
that may not be persistent. I also get the idea

1414
01:06:05,440 --> 01:06:08,840
that people believe that reddis is this non ephemeral data

1415
01:06:08,880 --> 01:06:10,440
store and you know, go ahead and use it as

1416
01:06:10,440 --> 01:06:13,039
your source of truth database. But you know, in the

1417
01:06:13,039 --> 01:06:15,639
mature businesses, as you said, like you you actually don't

1418
01:06:15,639 --> 01:06:16,960
even want to throw away that session data.

1419
01:06:17,000 --> 01:06:18,840
Speaker 2: As soon as you have it, you might as well be.

1420
01:06:18,840 --> 01:06:22,440
Speaker 3: Persisting it for for permanency so that you can evaluate,

1421
01:06:22,519 --> 01:06:24,639
you know, why didn't that convert to an actual order?

1422
01:06:24,840 --> 01:06:26,320
Speaker 2: You know, why didn't that person come back?

1423
01:06:26,400 --> 01:06:30,960
Speaker 3: And then once they do actually click by h and

1424
01:06:31,400 --> 01:06:34,079
payment gets processed, you don't need to convert it from

1425
01:06:34,559 --> 01:06:37,239
your temporary data store into into a permanent one.

1426
01:06:37,239 --> 01:06:40,400
Speaker 2: You already have it there. The payment is sort of separate.

1427
01:06:41,400 --> 01:06:43,719
Speaker 4: I'm trying. I'm actually trying to get you to exactly

1428
01:06:43,719 --> 01:06:46,599
what you're describing for my the video I did on

1429
01:06:46,639 --> 01:06:48,400
Amazon Glue and.

1430
01:06:49,039 --> 01:06:52,440
Speaker 8: You know, putting those that data in a long term

1431
01:06:52,440 --> 01:06:54,719
coal source, basically telling the people who difference between source

1432
01:06:54,760 --> 01:06:58,599
of truth ephemeral and long term term you know, red

1433
01:06:58,679 --> 01:07:02,000
shift or big data analytics tools, data warehouse, data leg

1434
01:07:02,599 --> 01:07:03,360
type of situation.

1435
01:07:03,519 --> 01:07:07,039
Speaker 3: So this is one of your videos that's going on

1436
01:07:07,039 --> 01:07:10,679
on demand on O'Reilly or no, that's.

1437
01:07:10,559 --> 01:07:11,519
Speaker 4: My YouTube videos.

1438
01:07:11,559 --> 01:07:14,119
Speaker 5: The Riley videos are specific to the security course, so

1439
01:07:14,159 --> 01:07:15,519
you can see if you have a bunch.

1440
01:07:15,280 --> 01:07:17,719
Speaker 4: Of that in here. But I see, all right, I'm

1441
01:07:17,719 --> 01:07:18,880
gonna stop sharing sometimes.

1442
01:07:19,519 --> 01:07:22,440
Speaker 5: No, I didn't prepare that one.

1443
01:07:23,960 --> 01:07:25,599
Speaker 2: Will has gone Will has gone dark for me.

1444
01:07:25,679 --> 01:07:28,400
Speaker 3: He's got no camera on's he's hiding from the from

1445
01:07:28,400 --> 01:07:33,159
the public and anonymous. Yeah, I mean, I think, you know,

1446
01:07:33,199 --> 01:07:35,440
I think it's a good point to maybe wrap up

1447
01:07:35,480 --> 01:07:38,800
the episode, unless to anything last word you want to

1448
01:07:38,840 --> 01:07:43,000
share about cloud war games or your consultancy.

1449
01:07:43,199 --> 01:07:45,199
Speaker 5: No, I want to thank you both for being the

1450
01:07:45,239 --> 01:07:50,000
first participants, and I mean's somewhat of an unofficial. It's

1451
01:07:50,000 --> 01:07:53,239
somewhat an unofficial capacity there, but thank you both for

1452
01:07:53,320 --> 01:07:56,559
being the first participants. I mean, we kind of played

1453
01:07:56,559 --> 01:07:59,639
a micro around there, but I invite you once I

1454
01:07:59,679 --> 01:08:02,480
get the thing moving, I invite you guys to come

1455
01:08:02,519 --> 01:08:05,079
and participate in. If you guys are game, maybe I

1456
01:08:05,199 --> 01:08:08,719
come back and run a full length game with you

1457
01:08:08,800 --> 01:08:10,119
guys some of that nature.

1458
01:08:10,159 --> 01:08:11,599
Speaker 4: So it's s throwing that out there.

1459
01:08:11,599 --> 01:08:14,239
Speaker 1: If you're interesting, that'd be a blast and I would

1460
01:08:14,239 --> 01:08:18,640
love to have you back on at any time for that.

1461
01:08:19,000 --> 01:08:21,560
And there's a bunch of other topics we we like

1462
01:08:21,720 --> 01:08:23,560
touched on here that I think would be cool to

1463
01:08:23,560 --> 01:08:24,279
dig deeper on.

1464
01:08:26,520 --> 01:08:28,720
Speaker 4: Yeah, for sure, be my pleasure.

1465
01:08:28,760 --> 01:08:30,960
Speaker 5: You let me know what and I'll you know, another

1466
01:08:31,000 --> 01:08:32,600
guest drops out, you come find me.

1467
01:08:35,520 --> 01:08:35,920
Speaker 4: With that.

1468
01:08:36,359 --> 01:08:39,000
Speaker 3: Should we move on to pickswell we should lop.

1469
01:08:39,720 --> 01:08:41,840
Speaker 2: Ah man words.

1470
01:08:42,479 --> 01:08:45,800
Speaker 1: Yeah right. Just like to take this opportunity to point

1471
01:08:45,800 --> 01:08:48,319
out to everyone that English is my native language and

1472
01:08:48,359 --> 01:08:49,560
I still screw it up.

1473
01:08:51,159 --> 01:08:54,680
Speaker 5: You should see me editing my videos. Love swearing.

1474
01:08:56,640 --> 01:08:58,840
Speaker 1: Well, for sure. I used to do quite a few

1475
01:09:00,560 --> 01:09:05,680
YouTube videos and did some video courses and stuff, and

1476
01:09:05,840 --> 01:09:07,880
my wife would always give me a hard time. She

1477
01:09:07,920 --> 01:09:11,840
would say I can always tell how it's going by

1478
01:09:11,840 --> 01:09:14,000
how many cuss words I can hear coming out of

1479
01:09:14,039 --> 01:09:18,119
your office. But at one point I made like a

1480
01:09:18,159 --> 01:09:20,039
blooper reel where I just took all the cuss words

1481
01:09:20,079 --> 01:09:22,239
that I cut out of all my videos and it

1482
01:09:22,319 --> 01:09:25,039
was like an eight minute stream of just some of

1483
01:09:25,079 --> 01:09:31,039
the most offensive language that has ever been recorded. Yeah,

1484
01:09:31,439 --> 01:09:36,359
all right, anyway, on the picks, Warren, you brought it up,

1485
01:09:36,359 --> 01:09:40,079
so I'll go first. I'm picking. A couple of weeks ago,

1486
01:09:40,239 --> 01:09:43,720
I picked Kunk on Earth, the Netflix special, and I

1487
01:09:43,720 --> 01:09:46,960
think that was when we had aj Funk on and

1488
01:09:47,560 --> 01:09:51,000
he said that there was a new one called Kunk

1489
01:09:51,079 --> 01:09:54,520
on Life, and so I watched that, and I thought

1490
01:09:54,560 --> 01:09:57,399
Kunk on Earth was so great that there would be

1491
01:09:57,520 --> 01:10:01,560
no way a follow up to it could be as entertaining.

1492
01:10:02,199 --> 01:10:04,800
And I'm happy to tell you that I was wrong

1493
01:10:05,119 --> 01:10:08,920
on so many levels. So Kunk on Life. Go check

1494
01:10:08,960 --> 01:10:14,039
that out on Netflix. The just the sense of humor

1495
01:10:14,079 --> 01:10:17,520
there and the dryness of that sense of humor had

1496
01:10:17,560 --> 01:10:21,680
me just rolling on the floor laughing, just absolutely amazing,

1497
01:10:22,119 --> 01:10:26,239
and they accidentally made it educational as well. So go

1498
01:10:26,399 --> 01:10:26,960
check that out.

1499
01:10:30,199 --> 01:10:30,439
Speaker 4: Well.

1500
01:10:30,479 --> 01:10:32,560
Speaker 3: I definitely will, because I liked all of the other

1501
01:10:32,680 --> 01:10:37,600
series by Filamina. Yeah, I guess that's her her stage

1502
01:10:37,680 --> 01:10:39,000
name and not her not.

1503
01:10:39,000 --> 01:10:39,800
Speaker 2: The actress's name.

1504
01:10:40,760 --> 01:10:44,840
Speaker 3: Okay, mine is I guess I also have a show.

1505
01:10:45,239 --> 01:10:51,680
So I read the book's Three Body Problem by Leo Sheen,

1506
01:10:52,199 --> 01:10:54,680
and it's actually one of the scenarios where I actually

1507
01:10:54,760 --> 01:10:57,439
like the series better. I think the series is absolutely fantastic.

1508
01:10:57,800 --> 01:11:00,399
I think some of the books are good, but the

1509
01:11:00,479 --> 01:11:03,039
series like absolutely really well done.

1510
01:11:03,439 --> 01:11:04,119
Speaker 2: I really look.

1511
01:11:04,000 --> 01:11:07,840
Speaker 3: Forward to the fallow Up seasons. If you haven't seen

1512
01:11:07,840 --> 01:11:10,239
it or read the books, I highly recommend a lot

1513
01:11:10,279 --> 01:11:12,119
of good philosophical ideas that.

1514
01:11:12,119 --> 01:11:12,600
Speaker 4: Are brought up.

1515
01:11:13,680 --> 01:11:16,399
Speaker 1: Okay, give me the high level of what it's about,

1516
01:11:16,439 --> 01:11:19,039
because I'm just assuming from the title three Body Problem,

1517
01:11:19,119 --> 01:11:21,319
this is how to get away with murdering someone, but

1518
01:11:21,960 --> 01:11:22,800
I may be wrong.

1519
01:11:23,720 --> 01:11:27,800
Speaker 3: No, it actually has to do with the unsolvability of

1520
01:11:27,840 --> 01:11:32,439
finding out without the initial conditions, what the path and

1521
01:11:32,560 --> 01:11:37,039
orientation of a solar system with three masses in it is.

1522
01:11:38,079 --> 01:11:39,720
Speaker 1: Okay, that's not going to be as useful to me

1523
01:11:39,760 --> 01:11:40,800
as I thought it was at first.

1524
01:11:40,840 --> 01:11:45,640
Speaker 3: See yeah, without without without spoiling, without without spoiling really

1525
01:11:45,680 --> 01:11:49,319
that much. There is one of the very close solar

1526
01:11:49,319 --> 01:11:53,119
systems in our galaxy to the milk in the Milky

1527
01:11:53,119 --> 01:11:58,279
Way to our solar system is one with three stars

1528
01:11:58,279 --> 01:12:01,680
in it, and so there is a relation's science fiction,

1529
01:12:02,159 --> 01:12:06,920
really good philosophical dilemmas, absolutely fantastic, well done.

1530
01:12:07,920 --> 01:12:11,479
Speaker 1: Is that the Alpha Centauri system that you're referring to?

1531
01:12:11,640 --> 01:12:12,680
Speaker 4: Yeah? Yeah, because they.

1532
01:12:12,640 --> 01:12:14,760
Speaker 1: Originally thought it was one star and then found out

1533
01:12:14,800 --> 01:12:18,640
that it was two binary stars in orbit with another

1534
01:12:18,680 --> 01:12:19,640
star close by.

1535
01:12:19,479 --> 01:12:26,159
Speaker 3: I think, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's four light years away right.

1536
01:12:26,520 --> 01:12:27,399
Speaker 1: Just across the street.

1537
01:12:27,920 --> 01:12:30,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, So, Matt, what do you got for us?

1538
01:12:31,359 --> 01:12:33,960
Speaker 5: Yes, you got all the science science stuff.

1539
01:12:33,960 --> 01:12:35,479
Speaker 4: I did not come prepared for that.

1540
01:12:35,640 --> 01:12:41,199
Speaker 5: I got the comic book Scott Pilgrim Versus of the World,

1541
01:12:42,560 --> 01:12:45,199
a lot of Yeah, they do a lot of pixel

1542
01:12:45,239 --> 01:12:49,439
aart in there, and I've been doing and wrapping on

1543
01:12:49,600 --> 01:12:52,239
my desk, and I've been doing a lot of comic

1544
01:12:52,239 --> 01:12:54,079
book stuff, so I'm like, Okay, this would be a

1545
01:12:54,159 --> 01:12:56,399
good thing to pick up. And I'm trying to look

1546
01:12:56,439 --> 01:12:59,920
at screens less before bed. So I've been uh, just

1547
01:13:00,079 --> 01:13:04,560
reading through this lately. Yeah, not not quite as not

1548
01:13:04,720 --> 01:13:07,119
quite as big as as interesting.

1549
01:13:06,720 --> 01:13:09,199
Speaker 4: As as the three body problem, but it helps me

1550
01:13:09,279 --> 01:13:09,760
go to sleep.

1551
01:13:10,239 --> 01:13:11,960
Speaker 2: What was what was that last thing that you held up?

1552
01:13:12,560 --> 01:13:15,760
Speaker 4: Scott Philbrin versus, The world was just uh that's volume one.

1553
01:13:15,840 --> 01:13:20,119
Speaker 3: Vollime, I say, I didn't know it was a written

1554
01:13:20,199 --> 01:13:20,760
work of art.

1555
01:13:21,359 --> 01:13:23,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, I believe that's how it started. And then I

1556
01:13:23,520 --> 01:13:25,720
think they made the video game and then the movie

1557
01:13:26,239 --> 01:13:26,960
so interesting.

1558
01:13:27,560 --> 01:13:30,319
Speaker 9: But the video game, it was the guy's the dark

1559
01:13:30,359 --> 01:13:33,439
for that guy named Paul Robinson, I think the probas

1560
01:13:33,560 --> 01:13:37,039
G or whatever, and he's just a phenomenal pixlartist, and

1561
01:13:37,079 --> 01:13:38,039
I just I.

1562
01:13:38,359 --> 01:13:40,000
Speaker 4: My work doesn't come close to it. And I got

1563
01:13:40,000 --> 01:13:40,880
a style that I can do.

1564
01:13:40,840 --> 01:13:43,439
Speaker 5: A two seconds, but he spends like years building these

1565
01:13:43,479 --> 01:13:44,800
amazing animations.

1566
01:13:44,840 --> 01:13:45,720
Speaker 4: It's phenomenal.

1567
01:13:46,319 --> 01:13:51,520
Speaker 1: So right on. Cool well, Matt, thanks again for coming

1568
01:13:51,560 --> 01:13:53,880
on the show. This has been a blast and we

1569
01:13:53,920 --> 01:13:58,520
will definitely have you back on. For everyone else, check

1570
01:13:58,560 --> 01:14:03,000
out cloud war games dot Com and anywhere else that

1571
01:14:03,079 --> 01:14:05,399
you hang out, you hang out on like ex LinkedIn,

1572
01:14:05,479 --> 01:14:06,439
any of that kind of stuff.

1573
01:14:06,640 --> 01:14:09,319
Speaker 5: What you can find me, you find me most of

1574
01:14:09,319 --> 01:14:11,560
these places schematic Okay, I'll try and grab it anywhere

1575
01:14:11,560 --> 01:14:12,159
I can.

1576
01:14:12,000 --> 01:14:15,439
Speaker 1: So okay, Yeah, so check it out on schematical and

1577
01:14:17,000 --> 01:14:19,079
thanks for listening. And we'll see everyone next week.