WEBVTT 1 00:00:03.980 --> 00:00:05.780 The Joe Rogan Experience. 2 00:00:06.179 --> 00:00:09.509 Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. 3 00:00:09.529 --> 00:00:13.669 Hey, good to see you, brother. 4 00:00:13.689 --> 00:00:14.130 What's going on? 5 00:00:14.529 --> 00:00:17.870 Good, man. It's been a wild year for me. 6 00:00:18.250 --> 00:00:19.690 I bet it has been. 7 00:00:20.370 --> 00:00:23.429 Since I was last here, I mean, I've seen my 8 00:00:23.449 --> 00:00:26.609 YouTube growth in numbers I couldn't have imagined before. I've 9 00:00:26.629 --> 00:00:29.210 met so many cool people. I've managed to get to 10 00:00:29.250 --> 00:00:32.740 a point where it's now my job to research and 11 00:00:32.780 --> 00:00:36.539 investigate ancient history and the vast mysteries of our past. 12 00:00:36.560 --> 00:00:39.399 And yeah, I mean, that's something I was doing for 13 00:00:39.820 --> 00:00:42.399 free before. So the fact that I'm now able to 14 00:00:42.420 --> 00:00:45.000 do that full time is just an immense privilege. And 15 00:00:45.020 --> 00:00:47.200 I'm so grateful to everyone that's helped me get there, 16 00:00:47.219 --> 00:00:47.679 including you. 17 00:00:47.939 --> 00:00:50.090 Well, you're putting out fantastic content. 18 00:00:50.380 --> 00:00:50.979 Thank you. 19 00:00:51.340 --> 00:00:56.329 And it's such an interesting subject. And the giant blind 20 00:00:56.409 --> 00:01:03.420 spot that the mainstream archaeologists have left has allowed all 21 00:01:03.439 --> 00:01:05.319 these people to go through and get a much larger 22 00:01:05.459 --> 00:01:06.920 audience even than them. 23 00:01:06.939 --> 00:01:07.019 Yeah. 24 00:01:07.780 --> 00:01:10.469 And it's, it's really important when someone like you does 25 00:01:10.549 --> 00:01:13.530 it because you're so thorough and you're so objective and 26 00:01:13.549 --> 00:01:16.950 you're so, you're so measured in the way you describe 27 00:01:16.989 --> 00:01:19.989 these things and talk about these things. There's no fantastic claims, 28 00:01:20.090 --> 00:01:23.590 no hyperbole. It's all very well laid out. And even 29 00:01:23.670 --> 00:01:27.310 when you go to like extreme possibilities of these things, 30 00:01:27.390 --> 00:01:29.730 it's very measured. So I really appreciate that. 31 00:01:30.109 --> 00:01:31.489 Well, thank you. I appreciate you saying that. 32 00:01:31.569 --> 00:01:32.290 And, Yeah. 33 00:01:32.310 --> 00:01:32.430 Yeah. 34 00:01:32.450 --> 00:01:34.189 I mean, I'm always trying to make it as good 35 00:01:34.230 --> 00:01:35.730 as I possibly can. And I try and listen to 36 00:01:35.750 --> 00:01:37.189 what people say and try and improve. And I don't 37 00:01:37.209 --> 00:01:39.430 think I've reached like the peak of where I could 38 00:01:39.450 --> 00:01:41.409 possibly be, but you know, I'm trying my hardest, but 39 00:01:41.909 --> 00:01:43.370 it's not just that. I mean, as you say, I 40 00:01:43.390 --> 00:01:46.109 think there are so many people out there and now 41 00:01:46.150 --> 00:01:48.829 that I'm in this position, I've seen it firsthand. There 42 00:01:48.849 --> 00:01:51.329 are like millions and millions of people around the world 43 00:01:51.349 --> 00:01:55.670 that are deeply fascinated by these questions, by the vast 44 00:01:55.730 --> 00:01:56.750 mysteries of our past. 45 00:01:56.780 --> 00:01:59.650 So As well they should be. And they also know 46 00:01:59.709 --> 00:02:03.670 that we're getting a very narrow version of it from 47 00:02:03.750 --> 00:02:09.319 mainstream academics. And they're so determined to cling to their 48 00:02:09.340 --> 00:02:13.319 timelines and cling to this notion that anything new that's 49 00:02:13.360 --> 00:02:17.759 discovered by people outside of their little circle can't be accurate. 50 00:02:18.000 --> 00:02:20.490 And I think that's so silly. Yeah. 51 00:02:20.650 --> 00:02:23.050 I mean, I think someone like me has the kind 52 00:02:23.069 --> 00:02:25.689 of advantage of the fact that because I, you know, 53 00:02:25.750 --> 00:02:28.849 didn't continue my career in academia or I wasn't in academia, 54 00:02:28.889 --> 00:02:31.210 but that was the pathway that I was on. Because 55 00:02:31.270 --> 00:02:34.199 I've gone independent now, I kind of have the freedom, 56 00:02:34.259 --> 00:02:36.199 if you like, to talk about these ideas in a 57 00:02:36.240 --> 00:02:38.000 much more open way than maybe I would have been 58 00:02:38.039 --> 00:02:41.240 able to if I was, well, wouldn't have been able 59 00:02:41.280 --> 00:02:43.879 to if I was still in academia, because, you know, 60 00:02:43.919 --> 00:02:47.099 I'm not restricted by funding or I'm not restricted by, 61 00:02:48.099 --> 00:02:52.270 Even the pressures of, you know, people working in academia 62 00:02:52.289 --> 00:02:53.550 hating on me. I mean, I get a lot of 63 00:02:53.590 --> 00:02:56.250 hate anyway. But I mean, I think I have that 64 00:02:56.349 --> 00:02:59.050 freedom to almost come at things from a completely open 65 00:02:59.090 --> 00:03:03.169 minded perspective and speak about these ideas without any restrictions. 66 00:03:03.250 --> 00:03:06.400 And I think that is the advantage that I have 67 00:03:06.460 --> 00:03:12.080 that academics perhaps don't. So, yeah, I mean, yeah, I mean, 68 00:03:12.120 --> 00:03:12.699 I'm in a great place. 69 00:03:13.180 --> 00:03:13.439 Yeah. 70 00:03:13.560 --> 00:03:14.639 So let's get into it. 71 00:03:14.979 --> 00:03:18.030 So in the last year, a lot of wild stuff 72 00:03:18.409 --> 00:03:20.530 has been discovered, which is really exciting. 73 00:03:20.750 --> 00:03:20.969 Yeah. 74 00:03:21.030 --> 00:03:23.669 It's so interesting how quick this stuff is moving. 75 00:03:23.889 --> 00:03:24.129 Yeah. 76 00:03:24.210 --> 00:03:24.590 It's wild. 77 00:03:24.650 --> 00:03:26.949 I mean, there's been, I think, two papers in particular 78 00:03:26.969 --> 00:03:29.310 that have come out in the year since I was 79 00:03:29.330 --> 00:03:32.830 last here on the show that I think have huge 80 00:03:32.889 --> 00:03:37.889 ramifications for how we view history. So, I mean, I 81 00:03:37.889 --> 00:03:40.210 don't know where to start. I mean, I think we 82 00:03:40.229 --> 00:03:44.680 should start like this. I think As things currently stand, 83 00:03:45.159 --> 00:03:51.560 there are three huge questions that archaeology cannot answer. And 84 00:03:51.900 --> 00:03:54.719 it's interesting because these three questions we used to think 85 00:03:54.740 --> 00:03:57.539 we had an answer to, but in light of new discoveries, 86 00:03:57.599 --> 00:04:00.759 in light of new evidence coming up, we no longer 87 00:04:00.780 --> 00:04:02.620 have the answer to these questions. And I think that's 88 00:04:03.270 --> 00:04:06.289 fascinating because it's almost like the rug has been pulled 89 00:04:06.330 --> 00:04:08.810 out from underneath our understanding of human history, but on 90 00:04:08.849 --> 00:04:11.879 the surface, it's kind of like business as usual. Do 91 00:04:11.919 --> 00:04:12.460 you know what I mean? 92 00:04:12.580 --> 00:04:13.460 So what are these questions? 93 00:04:14.039 --> 00:04:15.990 So, I mean, and this is just coming from me, right? 94 00:04:16.019 --> 00:04:18.790 So the caveat on the whole conversation, I'm not an academic, 95 00:04:18.829 --> 00:04:21.310 I'm not a professional archaeologist. I'm just, I mean, I 96 00:04:21.350 --> 00:04:22.930 have a degree in ancient history, but I think my 97 00:04:22.970 --> 00:04:25.329 main qualification is that I'm a super nerd for all 98 00:04:25.350 --> 00:04:27.149 this stuff. And I spent my whole life researching it. 99 00:04:28.209 --> 00:04:30.129 So that's the caveat on everything. So don't take what 100 00:04:30.149 --> 00:04:32.410 I say as gospel. And I always encourage people to 101 00:04:32.490 --> 00:04:35.319 go and look at the actual archaeology, go and read 102 00:04:35.360 --> 00:04:37.740 the journals, read the papers and go investigate what yourself, 103 00:04:38.100 --> 00:04:40.569 for yourself, like listen to what I say, but, don't 104 00:04:40.620 --> 00:04:42.079 take what I say as gospel because at the end 105 00:04:42.100 --> 00:04:43.420 of the day, I'm just a YouTuber, you know? So 106 00:04:44.019 --> 00:04:45.360 that's the caveat I want to put on it. But 107 00:04:45.920 --> 00:04:48.100 from my mind, these are the three questions that I 108 00:04:48.160 --> 00:04:51.319 think archaeology can no longer answer, but used to think 109 00:04:51.360 --> 00:04:54.060 it had an answer for. So the first question is, 110 00:04:54.079 --> 00:04:56.459 and we spoke about this a little bit last time, 111 00:04:57.209 --> 00:05:02.790 is the fascinating question of why after hundreds and hundreds 112 00:05:02.810 --> 00:05:05.389 and hundreds and hundreds of thousands of years of human 113 00:05:05.430 --> 00:05:09.480 beings like us being on this planet, Why did it 114 00:05:09.519 --> 00:05:12.959 take so long for civilization to emerge? And then why, 115 00:05:13.040 --> 00:05:15.720 when it did, did it emerge in all these different 116 00:05:15.800 --> 00:05:18.959 unconnected locations all over the globe at pretty much the 117 00:05:19.000 --> 00:05:23.259 exact same time? So we see civilization flourishing in Mesoamerica. 118 00:05:23.319 --> 00:05:26.850 We see civilization flourishing in South America, in Egypt, in 119 00:05:26.870 --> 00:05:30.470 the Indus Valley, in Mesopotamia, in ancient India, in ancient China, 120 00:05:30.930 --> 00:05:34.410 all around about the same time, give or take a 121 00:05:34.449 --> 00:05:37.250 thousand or so years. But compared to the time span 122 00:05:37.290 --> 00:05:40.459 of human beings on this planet, you know, 300,000 years 123 00:05:40.519 --> 00:05:43.660 plus for modern humans. And I would argue some of 124 00:05:43.680 --> 00:05:46.319 these papers are showing that it could be a lot 125 00:05:46.339 --> 00:05:50.639 longer than that. Why after so long did civilization suddenly 126 00:05:50.680 --> 00:05:53.519 crop up all over the place? And we no longer 127 00:05:53.560 --> 00:05:56.750 can answer that question in light of new discoveries. So 128 00:05:56.769 --> 00:05:59.970 that's question one. Why does civilization emerge everywhere all at 129 00:06:00.050 --> 00:06:03.410 once after so long of not doing so? Question two 130 00:06:04.189 --> 00:06:10.699 is how old is human intelligence? how long have humans 131 00:06:10.740 --> 00:06:14.240 been intelligent? How long has a mind like ours really 132 00:06:14.360 --> 00:06:19.399 inhabited this planet? And I think two papers in particular 133 00:06:19.420 --> 00:06:21.420 that have come out in the 12 months since I 134 00:06:21.439 --> 00:06:25.420 was here have huge ramifications for that question. And also 135 00:06:25.480 --> 00:06:28.060 combining to that is the question of other human species. 136 00:06:28.639 --> 00:06:30.959 How intelligent were other human species? Because we used to 137 00:06:31.000 --> 00:06:34.240 think that we were the smart ones. I mean, our name, 138 00:06:34.800 --> 00:06:38.180 Homo sapiens, literally translates to wise man, which is a 139 00:06:38.610 --> 00:06:42.829 incredibly humble thing for us to say about ourselves. But yeah, 140 00:06:42.990 --> 00:06:46.149 so that's question two, how old is human intelligence? And again, 141 00:06:46.209 --> 00:06:48.910 I think the answer is, we don't have the answer anymore. 142 00:06:50.189 --> 00:06:53.750 So that's really fascinating. And then question three is, when 143 00:06:53.790 --> 00:06:58.399 did humans first reach the more isolated landmasses? So that's 144 00:06:58.600 --> 00:07:01.779 the Americas where we are right now. And also Australia, 145 00:07:01.839 --> 00:07:06.360 which is perhaps less important, but still interesting. And again, 146 00:07:06.439 --> 00:07:08.139 we don't have the answer for that anymore. And I 147 00:07:08.180 --> 00:07:12.290 think whatever the answer is to these three questions, why 148 00:07:12.329 --> 00:07:14.879 does civilization appear everywhere all at once? How old is 149 00:07:14.920 --> 00:07:18.939 human intelligence? And when did humans first reach the more 150 00:07:19.019 --> 00:07:22.300 isolated parts of the world? The answer to those questions, 151 00:07:22.339 --> 00:07:27.399 whatever it is, I think is fundamentally important because whatever 152 00:07:27.420 --> 00:07:29.040 the answer is, is the reason we're all here, right? 153 00:07:29.290 --> 00:07:31.230 It's the reason we all live in this civilization. It's 154 00:07:31.250 --> 00:07:35.029 the reason we all enjoy the fruits of everything that 155 00:07:35.050 --> 00:07:36.970 we exist in today. And yet we don't know the 156 00:07:37.050 --> 00:07:40.019 answer anymore. But As I said, on the surface, everyone's 157 00:07:40.079 --> 00:07:43.189 kind of carrying on like it's business as usual, but 158 00:07:43.730 --> 00:07:46.990 we no longer know the answer to the most fundamental 159 00:07:47.029 --> 00:07:48.050 questions of how we got here. 160 00:07:48.089 --> 00:07:54.649 So, yeah. So for question number one, why did all 161 00:07:54.829 --> 00:07:59.569 of these civilizations emerge roughly the same time? 162 00:08:00.449 --> 00:08:01.269 What do you think? 163 00:08:01.550 --> 00:08:05.910 Do you think that this is incorrect? And that these 164 00:08:06.009 --> 00:08:11.189 civilizations probably existed far earlier than that, but there's no 165 00:08:11.329 --> 00:08:15.069 evidence of them because of time and just erosion and 166 00:08:15.740 --> 00:08:20.180 natural catastrophes and fill in the blank, all the factors. 167 00:08:20.759 --> 00:08:24.560 And or we have not discovered some of these yet, 168 00:08:24.980 --> 00:08:27.560 like some of the weirdness of the Amazon, you know, 169 00:08:27.600 --> 00:08:30.399 as they find these things. what would appear to be 170 00:08:30.699 --> 00:08:32.919 the grids of ancient cities that are hidden in the 171 00:08:32.960 --> 00:08:36.080 jungle that they're discovering with LIDAR and these other technologies 172 00:08:36.460 --> 00:08:40.659 that were unavailable until fairly recently. So we know that 173 00:08:40.759 --> 00:08:44.190 not only was the Amazon filled with people, but it 174 00:08:44.210 --> 00:08:47.309 was filled with millions of people. And that's crazy. That 175 00:08:47.370 --> 00:08:50.210 is a crazy shift in the way we used to 176 00:08:50.250 --> 00:08:54.149 look at the Amazon just a few decades ago. And, 177 00:08:54.669 --> 00:08:56.549 We don't know who these people were. We don't know. 178 00:08:56.730 --> 00:08:59.029 Like if you go really far back, like the Olmecs 179 00:08:59.169 --> 00:09:01.250 is just a word. We gave them that word. We 180 00:09:01.289 --> 00:09:03.269 don't know what the fuck they were doing. We have 181 00:09:03.320 --> 00:09:05.779 no idea what they looked like. We know some of 182 00:09:05.799 --> 00:09:10.000 the heads look roughly either Polynesian or perhaps even African. 183 00:09:10.639 --> 00:09:14.759 It's very strange. Very strange. Big giant heads that are 184 00:09:14.820 --> 00:09:18.000 left behind and that's like the cornerstone of what we 185 00:09:18.019 --> 00:09:20.779 understand about the civilization. Okay. What? 186 00:09:21.399 --> 00:09:21.799 How long? 187 00:09:21.799 --> 00:09:24.409 6,000 years we think? Who knows? Who knows? It's just 188 00:09:24.450 --> 00:09:27.909 a rough guess. Like there's really nothing to go on. 189 00:09:29.299 --> 00:09:33.179 Do you think that this is just like as far 190 00:09:33.240 --> 00:09:37.019 back as we can find stuff? Or do you think– 191 00:09:37.320 --> 00:09:37.779 what do you think? 192 00:09:38.419 --> 00:09:41.809 Well, I think in terms of the civilization question, I 193 00:09:41.850 --> 00:09:45.070 think it's just– I think it's an old idea that 194 00:09:45.110 --> 00:09:47.250 we kind of drew this line. And the line is 195 00:09:47.289 --> 00:09:49.470 the invention of writing, right? So it's around 3000, 4000 B.C. 196 00:09:52.379 --> 00:09:54.419 was the invention of writing or supposedly was the invention 197 00:09:54.440 --> 00:09:56.299 of writing. And that in the 20th century was kind 198 00:09:56.320 --> 00:09:58.409 of given as the marker of civilization. We were finding 199 00:09:58.450 --> 00:10:01.000 all these civilizations in the 20th century. like ancient Sumer. 200 00:10:01.039 --> 00:10:02.980 And so that was kind of given as the start 201 00:10:03.019 --> 00:10:06.179 of civilization. But I think in terms of like more 202 00:10:06.259 --> 00:10:11.100 recent stuff, so 3000 BC back to like 12,000 BC, 203 00:10:11.620 --> 00:10:14.590 I think the answer is that clearly civilization is older. 204 00:10:14.639 --> 00:10:18.269 I mean, considering we see things like Tashtapella, Gobekli Tepe, 12,000 205 00:10:18.269 --> 00:10:21.309 years ago. I think that is a civilization. I think 206 00:10:21.570 --> 00:10:24.100 over time that will come to be accepted as a civilization. 207 00:10:24.139 --> 00:10:27.259 And I think whatever you want to define civilization as, 208 00:10:27.299 --> 00:10:29.580 I think we can now clearly say that it did 209 00:10:29.659 --> 00:10:32.759 exist 12,000 years ago rather than 6,000 years ago. So 210 00:10:32.799 --> 00:10:35.059 that's a kind of doubling of the timeline. In terms 211 00:10:35.120 --> 00:10:37.519 of going back much further than that, I think then 212 00:10:37.559 --> 00:10:40.279 you get into kind of like purely hypothetical scenarios, like 213 00:10:40.350 --> 00:10:43.090 is it possible? And that's when I think things like 214 00:10:43.409 --> 00:10:45.610 the history of human intelligence start to come into play 215 00:10:45.649 --> 00:10:49.889 because It was incredibly recently that we thought humans were 216 00:10:50.210 --> 00:10:53.970 only got intelligent. We thought humans were young, like only 100,000 217 00:10:53.970 --> 00:10:55.909 years old, only a few decades ago. And now we 218 00:10:55.950 --> 00:10:58.210 know we're much older than that. And so this is 219 00:10:58.309 --> 00:11:00.110 how what I mean about everything kind of being back 220 00:11:00.149 --> 00:11:03.169 on the table again, because we now have a incredibly 221 00:11:03.210 --> 00:11:07.000 increased time span of human intelligence that I would argue, 222 00:11:07.049 --> 00:11:10.279 and I'll come to this later, stretches over a million years. 223 00:11:10.659 --> 00:11:13.179 And yet the old idea, which is still sort of 224 00:11:13.240 --> 00:11:15.610 in place, but I think is breaking, I think, Most 225 00:11:15.669 --> 00:11:18.470 archaeologists would accept that it's breaking, but the old idea 226 00:11:18.509 --> 00:11:22.100 was that humans only became intelligent around 50,000 years ago. 227 00:11:23.169 --> 00:11:26.899 And so because that idea kind of was in hold, 228 00:11:26.919 --> 00:11:30.419 it almost made sense, right? So humans only existed from 100,000 229 00:11:30.419 --> 00:11:32.919 years ago, then got smart 50,000 years ago. Then the 230 00:11:32.960 --> 00:11:36.259 climate got good around. 231 00:11:35.440 --> 00:11:35.860 14,000 years ago. 232 00:11:36.220 --> 00:11:38.639 We see the agricultural revolution and the emergence of the 233 00:11:38.679 --> 00:11:41.000 first civilizations. Like it was very neat, you know what 234 00:11:41.019 --> 00:11:43.029 I mean? But now in light of new evidence and 235 00:11:43.049 --> 00:11:45.970 in light of new discoveries, suddenly everything's back on the table. 236 00:11:46.029 --> 00:11:48.929 Suddenly the whole time span of prehistory, or not the 237 00:11:48.960 --> 00:11:51.480 whole of prehistory, but I would argue, and I'll get 238 00:11:51.539 --> 00:11:54.320 onto why I think this later, I would argue that 239 00:11:54.519 --> 00:11:58.620 the time span of human intelligence has increased by 20 240 00:11:58.620 --> 00:12:01.820 times from 50,000 to over a million years. And I'll 241 00:12:01.840 --> 00:12:04.919 explain why in a minute, but I think that puts 242 00:12:04.960 --> 00:12:07.399 everything back on the table. I think that the possibilities 243 00:12:07.450 --> 00:12:11.629 of prehistory are so vast now because our understanding has 244 00:12:11.669 --> 00:12:14.610 shifted so dramatically in the last few decades. And I 245 00:12:14.629 --> 00:12:16.629 don't think anyone's really talking about it. And that's kind 246 00:12:16.669 --> 00:12:19.389 of why I do what I do because I really 247 00:12:19.429 --> 00:12:23.149 want to bang this drum. If you like the, everything's 248 00:12:23.190 --> 00:12:25.429 back on the table, as I say. And so, yeah, 249 00:12:25.450 --> 00:12:26.590 I don't know. I kind of got a bit sidetracked 250 00:12:26.610 --> 00:12:27.669 there from the original question. 251 00:12:27.710 --> 00:12:30.389 Well, that's a, no, you, it's a great start. Um, 252 00:12:30.889 --> 00:12:33.669 Jesse Michaels was here yesterday and he had a really 253 00:12:33.809 --> 00:12:35.769 fascinating theory. I don't know if it's, is that his 254 00:12:35.809 --> 00:12:38.629 theory or is it someone else's theory? The, the ergot theory, 255 00:12:39.750 --> 00:12:46.759 his theory was that, um, He believes that agriculture and 256 00:12:46.799 --> 00:12:50.120 that as they started agriculture wasn't just significant in that 257 00:12:50.899 --> 00:12:53.529 you could like stay in one place and you would 258 00:12:53.570 --> 00:12:56.429 have food and you always had a reliable diet. You 259 00:12:56.450 --> 00:12:59.389 didn't have to worry about starving to death. And then 260 00:12:59.429 --> 00:13:02.690 you– because you had that sort of relaxation that came 261 00:13:02.730 --> 00:13:05.409 with that, you could start inventing things and building things 262 00:13:05.509 --> 00:13:11.240 and civilization would advance. He thinks it's also because ergot 263 00:13:11.299 --> 00:13:15.350 grows more. on these different wheats and barleys and grains, 264 00:13:15.909 --> 00:13:19.789 and that these people, whether knowingly or unknowingly, were probably 265 00:13:19.830 --> 00:13:26.149 ingesting this psychedelic substance, which is akin to LSD, and 266 00:13:26.169 --> 00:13:29.480 that this was a key part of what Brian Murarrescu 267 00:13:29.500 --> 00:13:32.679 talked about in the Eleusinian Mysteries, in his great book, 268 00:13:32.720 --> 00:13:37.340 The Immortality Key, and that this was probably what led 269 00:13:37.379 --> 00:13:39.779 to a lot of invention, a lot of innovation, a 270 00:13:40.019 --> 00:13:43.730 lot of alternative thought. A lot of creativity and a 271 00:13:43.769 --> 00:13:48.169 lot of like whatever the wild advancements of the time were. 272 00:13:48.620 --> 00:13:51.059 Did you see that they just– not proved it but 273 00:13:51.100 --> 00:13:55.059 they just did a study on the Eleusinian mysteries where 274 00:13:55.080 --> 00:13:58.059 they kind of showed that they were doing– they did 275 00:13:58.080 --> 00:14:00.559 have ergot. Because when Brian wrote that book, they hadn't 276 00:14:00.620 --> 00:14:02.320 proved that but something just came out. 277 00:14:02.600 --> 00:14:06.519 Did you see the– it was a puma bone pipe 278 00:14:06.980 --> 00:14:10.340 that they found that tested positive for DMT? 279 00:14:11.000 --> 00:14:13.480 Where in– I do not know. 280 00:14:13.639 --> 00:14:16.279 I think it was– I don't– it might have been 281 00:14:16.320 --> 00:14:19.019 in the– no. Where was that? Peru. 282 00:14:19.139 --> 00:14:19.440 Yes. 283 00:14:19.600 --> 00:14:20.320 Really? Yes. 284 00:14:20.860 --> 00:14:21.820 How old is that, Jamie? 285 00:14:24.750 --> 00:14:26.159 See if you can put that in a perplexity if 286 00:14:26.509 --> 00:14:29.029 it knows what this is all about because it's a 287 00:14:29.370 --> 00:14:33.549 fascinating subject. Because not only does it imply that they 288 00:14:33.590 --> 00:14:36.470 were willingly taking psychedelic drugs, it's somehow or another they 289 00:14:36.590 --> 00:14:41.799 knew how to make DMT. Like, OK, what? What? Because 290 00:14:42.120 --> 00:14:45.750 that's a complicated process when you have to separate the 291 00:14:45.809 --> 00:14:49.450 molecule from whatever plant it's in. And then you have 292 00:14:49.470 --> 00:14:51.210 to figure out that you need to freebase it or 293 00:14:51.269 --> 00:14:52.750 smoke it. Like, what? 294 00:14:52.850 --> 00:14:55.350 This is actually in northwestern Argentina. 295 00:14:55.590 --> 00:14:55.929 Aha. 296 00:14:56.529 --> 00:14:57.710 So it's still the Andes. 297 00:14:58.980 --> 00:15:05.480 The Inca Cueva, a high-altitude cave site in Jujuy, northwestern Argentina. 298 00:15:06.740 --> 00:15:09.539 The tubular smoking pipes were made from the long bones 299 00:15:09.580 --> 00:15:21.370 of a puma. They were found alongside anadenanthra seeds, including 300 00:15:21.409 --> 00:15:30.230 the plant commonly associated with Vilca Sibyl snuff traditions. Residue 301 00:15:30.289 --> 00:15:35.460 testing detected tryptamine alkaloids in the pipes. So they were 302 00:15:35.820 --> 00:15:39.700 figuring out how to take these seeds and smoke them. 303 00:15:41.679 --> 00:15:47.059 The material has been dated to roughly 2130 BCE, over 4,000 304 00:15:47.059 --> 00:15:50.039 years ago. That makes the find amongst the oldest direct 305 00:15:50.590 --> 00:16:01.590 archaeological evidence for intentional use of psychoactive anadenanthera. Sorry, scientists 306 00:16:02.029 --> 00:16:06.509 in the southern Andes. That's fucking crazy. The careful answer 307 00:16:06.549 --> 00:16:14.620 is DMT was detected in pipe residues. But anadanthera colubrina 308 00:16:14.820 --> 00:16:18.570 is not simply a DMT plant. Its psychoactive chemistry can 309 00:16:19.330 --> 00:16:26.429 include bufetinin DMT and 5-MeO DMT in varying quantities. Depending 310 00:16:26.490 --> 00:16:29.720 on plant material and preparation, the archaeological interpretation is that 311 00:16:29.759 --> 00:16:34.559 the pipes were used in a ritual context involving– one 312 00:16:34.580 --> 00:16:40.259 more time– anadanthera. rather than proof that people were using 313 00:16:40.799 --> 00:16:44.799 modern purified DMT. Either way, they're smoking whatever the fuck 314 00:16:44.840 --> 00:16:47.860 that stuff is. They're getting DMT from it. So they 315 00:16:47.879 --> 00:16:51.299 had figured out somehow or another that ingesting it through 316 00:16:51.379 --> 00:16:54.960 smoke– now, one of the reasons why this is particularly 317 00:16:55.000 --> 00:16:59.570 significant is there are scholars out of– I think it's 318 00:16:59.590 --> 00:17:04.509 the University of Jerusalem that believe that the burning bush 319 00:17:05.029 --> 00:17:10.250 that Moses encountered– Some kind of psychedelic. That's exactly what 320 00:17:10.269 --> 00:17:13.210 they think. They think the translation was, they believe it 321 00:17:13.250 --> 00:17:16.750 was possibly the acacia tree, which is apparently rich in DMT. 322 00:17:17.289 --> 00:17:21.869 So that Moses has Moses trips balls and gets some 323 00:17:21.890 --> 00:17:25.009 really good solid rules to live by and comes back 324 00:17:25.210 --> 00:17:27.930 with them and said, hey, this is what God said. Yeah. 325 00:17:27.950 --> 00:17:32.190 I mean, I think it's clearly the case that ancient cultures, 326 00:17:32.849 --> 00:17:36.240 not just in South America, but across the world, were 327 00:17:36.319 --> 00:17:40.740 using psychedelic substances. And yeah, that's interesting. I mean, the 328 00:17:40.759 --> 00:17:44.420 theory of whether that caused agriculture, whether that led to 329 00:17:44.460 --> 00:17:46.710 civilization or anything like that, I mean, I don't know. 330 00:17:46.829 --> 00:17:50.009 But it's certainly interesting that human beings seem to have 331 00:17:50.029 --> 00:17:54.309 been experimenting with psychoactive substances for a long, long, long, long, 332 00:17:54.329 --> 00:17:56.410 long time. And yeah, that's fascinating. 333 00:17:57.130 --> 00:18:01.250 Yeah, and much like in our culture today, and, you know, 334 00:18:02.269 --> 00:18:05.650 especially what happened in 1970, where all that stuff was 335 00:18:05.710 --> 00:18:08.589 demonized and put on schedule one. Back then during the 336 00:18:08.710 --> 00:18:12.150 Eleusinian Mysteries, the reason why those mysteries stopped is because 337 00:18:12.190 --> 00:18:14.710 the powers that be were like, hey, these guys are 338 00:18:14.730 --> 00:18:17.910 a fucking problem. These trippy dudes with their weird ideas 339 00:18:17.950 --> 00:18:21.470 who invented democracy, they're going to fuck this whole thing up. 340 00:18:21.890 --> 00:18:23.150 We're not going to be able to run it and 341 00:18:23.230 --> 00:18:24.849 tell everybody what to do and force them into going 342 00:18:24.869 --> 00:18:25.170 to war. 343 00:18:26.369 --> 00:18:28.490 Yeah, I know. The powers that be always want to 344 00:18:28.529 --> 00:18:31.089 restrict any kind of like thought that's outside of the– 345 00:18:31.529 --> 00:18:32.950 What they want people to think. They don't want people 346 00:18:32.970 --> 00:18:35.309 to think as freely as they can. 347 00:18:35.329 --> 00:18:39.430 Well, anything that limits their control. Yeah. You know, because 348 00:18:39.470 --> 00:18:42.140 everybody wants control. And there's always new groups that say, 349 00:18:42.200 --> 00:18:43.519 you don't know what the fuck you're doing. Let me 350 00:18:43.559 --> 00:18:48.119 take the realm. And that's always been the case. Which 351 00:18:48.160 --> 00:18:52.549 is probably good for people. It probably is what leads 352 00:18:52.670 --> 00:18:55.289 to– I mean not the war part of it but 353 00:18:55.670 --> 00:18:58.950 probably these new ideas is what leads to an advancement 354 00:18:58.970 --> 00:19:02.069 of civilization rather than stagnation that we find in some 355 00:19:02.109 --> 00:19:04.619 places in the world where they haven't had a chance 356 00:19:04.670 --> 00:19:05.210 to do that. 357 00:19:05.859 --> 00:19:05.990 Yeah. 358 00:19:20.619 --> 00:19:24.220 And that's how they've always done it. And they live 359 00:19:24.259 --> 00:19:27.720 this weird nomadic lifestyle in the mountains and it's not 360 00:19:27.740 --> 00:19:30.039 much different than the way it was thousands and thousands 361 00:19:30.079 --> 00:19:34.500 of years ago. Very clan-like. Yeah. And if you don't 362 00:19:34.539 --> 00:19:37.849 have– if that guy and these groups just stay in 363 00:19:37.900 --> 00:19:41.230 control forever, like it's like there's no motivation for them 364 00:19:41.230 --> 00:19:42.829 to change and evolve and grow. 365 00:19:42.829 --> 00:19:44.029 There's no innovation. 366 00:19:44.029 --> 00:19:44.450 Or anything like that. 367 00:19:44.490 --> 00:19:44.589 Yeah. 368 00:19:44.609 --> 00:19:47.309 Nothing's happening. Also, they're stuck in the mountains. So it's 369 00:19:47.329 --> 00:19:50.599 like you're just trying to live. But when we think 370 00:19:50.619 --> 00:19:53.579 of these places, these very fertile places on earth where 371 00:19:53.759 --> 00:19:59.920 like particularly Turkey, Turkey is fascinating. And many people are 372 00:19:59.980 --> 00:20:03.359 now speculating that that– if there is a singular place, 373 00:20:03.640 --> 00:20:06.859 but that might have been one of the birthplaces of 374 00:20:07.200 --> 00:20:08.140 true civilization. 375 00:20:08.160 --> 00:20:08.240 Yeah. 376 00:20:08.670 --> 00:20:11.619 This episode is brought to you by Blue Chew. Man, 377 00:20:11.839 --> 00:20:14.359 let's talk about Blue Chew. They're already the number one 378 00:20:14.440 --> 00:20:17.210 brand for better sex. But what they're doing with Blue 379 00:20:17.250 --> 00:20:21.549 Chew Gold is completely next level. Gold is a four-in-one 380 00:20:21.670 --> 00:20:26.680 formula designed to make your bedroom noisy again. Obviously, it 381 00:20:26.720 --> 00:20:29.589 gets you hard, like you're back in your 20s, and 382 00:20:29.890 --> 00:20:34.930 everything is handled 100% online. 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Head over to bluechew.com 392 00:21:06.880 --> 00:21:09.450 for details and important safety information. 393 00:21:09.890 --> 00:21:10.410 Check it out. 394 00:21:11.230 --> 00:21:14.390 This ad and the products being advertised are intended for 395 00:21:14.430 --> 00:21:15.690 a United States audience. 396 00:21:16.690 --> 00:21:19.109 Yeah, I mean, I think it undoubtedly is. I think Taştapela, 397 00:21:19.150 --> 00:21:22.359 which is in modern day Turkey, is the earliest evidence, 398 00:21:22.400 --> 00:21:24.859 in my view, of something akin to civilization. And now 399 00:21:25.180 --> 00:21:28.259 archaeologists will say it's not civilization because it doesn't quite 400 00:21:28.319 --> 00:21:31.940 tick off every part of the checklist. But I think 401 00:21:31.960 --> 00:21:33.759 that's neither here nor there. I think it's clearly a 402 00:21:33.809 --> 00:21:36.609 very sophisticated culture. I mean, you have like 14 sites 403 00:21:36.670 --> 00:21:40.849 there that are now clearly shown to be interlinked, shared symbolism, 404 00:21:40.869 --> 00:21:45.670 shared religious traditions, same architectural styles. Very impressive architecture, clearly 405 00:21:46.109 --> 00:21:49.589 organized labor, stratified society, because how do you achieve that 406 00:21:49.609 --> 00:21:51.470 without someone at the top and someone below? And these 407 00:21:51.509 --> 00:21:55.289 are all things that we used to think were civilization, right? 408 00:21:55.349 --> 00:21:59.450 And yet people aren't happy with us calling Tashdapella a civilization, 409 00:21:59.490 --> 00:22:00.910 but I think it will get there. 410 00:22:00.950 --> 00:22:03.619 But don't you think that's just because of them trying 411 00:22:03.650 --> 00:22:05.619 to protect their timeline that they've been teaching? 412 00:22:06.190 --> 00:22:07.809 Yeah, and I think it will change. I think it 413 00:22:07.829 --> 00:22:08.130 will change. 414 00:22:08.269 --> 00:22:10.559 I don't think there's any other explanation other than that. 415 00:22:10.599 --> 00:22:13.019 I mean, it fits, as you said, all the criteria 416 00:22:13.079 --> 00:22:15.559 for a civilization that we used to apply. And the 417 00:22:15.599 --> 00:22:18.660 fact that they were moving the goalposts just because they 418 00:22:18.680 --> 00:22:19.599 didn't know it existed. 419 00:22:19.940 --> 00:22:22.299 And they're finding residential buildings at Gobekli Tepe now. And 420 00:22:22.319 --> 00:22:23.779 that was always one that used to say, look, people 421 00:22:23.799 --> 00:22:25.359 didn't live there. They must have migrated there. But now 422 00:22:25.380 --> 00:22:27.539 they're finding that people did live there, like, I guess, 423 00:22:27.579 --> 00:22:30.289 permanently or at least semi-permanently. Yeah, there's all the sites 424 00:22:30.349 --> 00:22:34.640 and quite a vast area all connected and So the 425 00:22:34.680 --> 00:22:37.480 only ones they haven't got now is writing. And there's 426 00:22:37.519 --> 00:22:41.900 an interesting discovery regarding writing at Gobekli Tepe and agriculture. 427 00:22:41.920 --> 00:22:43.349 Yeah, we talked about that yesterday. 428 00:22:43.430 --> 00:22:44.789 The Irving Finkel thing. 429 00:22:44.829 --> 00:22:48.730 Yes. Yeah, really interesting. So are those, where you see 430 00:22:48.769 --> 00:22:51.750 those pillars, are those sites where you have like those 431 00:22:51.809 --> 00:22:52.789 concentric circles? 432 00:22:53.450 --> 00:22:57.079 I assume so. Those are the famous ones anyway. Callahan Tepe, 433 00:22:57.119 --> 00:22:59.619 Gobekli Tepe, Seyfer Tepe. Those are the biggest ones. 434 00:22:59.970 --> 00:23:05.990 And only 5% of Gobekli Tepe currently has even been excavated, right? 435 00:23:06.549 --> 00:23:09.990 Which is pretty crazy when you think like, well, okay, 436 00:23:10.650 --> 00:23:14.069 how many of them are also still underground? Like how 437 00:23:14.109 --> 00:23:16.569 many do we know only exists because of ground penetrating 438 00:23:16.630 --> 00:23:19.319 radar and all the other techniques? Yeah. 439 00:23:19.339 --> 00:23:21.500 I mean, it's wild. Like Gobekli Tepe, if all of 440 00:23:21.579 --> 00:23:24.059 it was excavated as something like 50 times larger than 441 00:23:24.099 --> 00:23:26.920 Stonehenge and Stonehenge is obviously an incredibly famous site and 442 00:23:26.940 --> 00:23:30.660 yet it's so much bigger and To be clear, it 443 00:23:30.819 --> 00:23:35.829 is standard archaeological practice to not excavate too much of 444 00:23:35.869 --> 00:23:36.230 a site. 445 00:23:36.690 --> 00:23:37.529 What are we looking at here? 446 00:23:37.829 --> 00:23:38.710 That's Gobekli Tepe. 447 00:23:38.930 --> 00:23:41.809 And what are we looking at in terms of these grids? 448 00:23:42.970 --> 00:23:45.839 I think maybe that's the kind of archaeological pit. 449 00:23:45.950 --> 00:23:46.390 I think. 450 00:23:46.470 --> 00:23:47.200 I'm not 100% sure. 451 00:23:47.259 --> 00:23:49.559 It seems like it, right? Because it seems like the 452 00:23:49.599 --> 00:23:51.920 grids go on top of these circles, which doesn't make 453 00:23:51.960 --> 00:23:52.440 any sense. 454 00:23:53.380 --> 00:23:57.920 So, obviously, they have to go very slowly. The risk of. 455 00:23:57.940 --> 00:24:03.839 Destroying some incredible find some beautiful ancient thing because you're 456 00:24:03.900 --> 00:24:05.900 using tractors or something like that. 457 00:24:05.900 --> 00:24:08.319 Is too valid it is valid but i would argue 458 00:24:08.440 --> 00:24:10.920 and i've said this before is that gobekli tepe is 459 00:24:10.960 --> 00:24:15.490 a site that has such important ramifications for our understanding 460 00:24:15.529 --> 00:24:18.650 of civilization and the origins of civilization that it should 461 00:24:18.710 --> 00:24:22.130 receive special treatment right because it is the oldest site 462 00:24:22.170 --> 00:24:25.609 that looks like civilization so i always think that maybe 463 00:24:25.650 --> 00:24:28.849 we should not, obviously you want to be careful when 464 00:24:28.869 --> 00:24:31.250 you go in and you want to follow correct archaeological procedure, 465 00:24:31.289 --> 00:24:34.490 but at the same time, what if a relic, like 466 00:24:34.549 --> 00:24:37.079 equivalent to the Rosetta Stone, the one stone that we 467 00:24:37.130 --> 00:24:41.259 found that completely translated Egyptian hieroglyphs and opened up ancient 468 00:24:41.319 --> 00:24:44.200 Egypt to our understanding, what if some kind of equivalent 469 00:24:44.259 --> 00:24:48.519 artifact is hiding in the unexcavated 95% of Gobekli Tepe? 470 00:24:48.759 --> 00:24:50.599 That could be waiting for us to find. 471 00:24:50.660 --> 00:24:52.740 Have we talked about this boar before, Joe? 472 00:24:52.960 --> 00:24:53.380 Yeah. 473 00:24:53.859 --> 00:24:56.779 I don't remember ever seeing it, but It's not new, 474 00:24:57.039 --> 00:24:58.559 but it was also found at Gobekli Tepe. 475 00:24:58.579 --> 00:25:01.839 It was painted. I think some of the mouth was 476 00:25:01.880 --> 00:25:02.400 painted red. 477 00:25:03.920 --> 00:25:04.799 It's crazy looking. 478 00:25:04.819 --> 00:25:06.029 It's pretty close to life-size. 479 00:25:09.390 --> 00:25:12.109 The whole thing is really fascinating because it's also, I 480 00:25:12.589 --> 00:25:17.079 think it's the first evidence of 3D carving in stone too. 481 00:25:17.339 --> 00:25:20.819 Yeah, raised relief I think is called. Or not a statue. 482 00:25:20.940 --> 00:25:23.859 What we're saying about that is like these boars and 483 00:25:23.940 --> 00:25:26.000 snakes and all these different animals that are on these 484 00:25:26.160 --> 00:25:30.099 incredible pillars, they're not carved into it. The stone is 485 00:25:30.180 --> 00:25:36.720 carved around it, which is advanced. It takes sophisticated use 486 00:25:36.759 --> 00:25:39.519 of tools. And an understanding of how to work stone 487 00:25:39.559 --> 00:25:40.740 to be able to do something like that. 488 00:25:41.059 --> 00:25:44.619 And crucially, specialization, right? That's someone's job. They're not out 489 00:25:44.660 --> 00:25:48.089 there gathering food. That's their job. That's how they spend 490 00:25:48.109 --> 00:25:48.509 their time. 491 00:25:48.529 --> 00:25:53.210 And it's also, hey, how did you move those? Those 492 00:25:53.250 --> 00:25:56.150 stones are huge. The biggest ones are like how many? 493 00:25:56.349 --> 00:25:58.430 I think most of them are like 10 tons. 494 00:25:58.450 --> 00:26:00.650 But I think they found one that hadn't been moved 495 00:26:00.690 --> 00:26:02.819 by the quarry that was something like 50 tons. And obviously, 496 00:26:02.839 --> 00:26:05.440 they would have... assumed that they would have had a 497 00:26:05.509 --> 00:26:07.269 method to move that or else they wouldn't have carved 498 00:26:07.289 --> 00:26:07.549 it out. 499 00:26:07.609 --> 00:26:11.789 Yeah, 50 tons is high and stubby little peckers. 500 00:26:12.029 --> 00:26:13.690 It says clutching. 501 00:26:14.250 --> 00:26:21.250 Clutching their peckers. Yeah. Okay. Whatever you're into, bro. Must 502 00:26:21.269 --> 00:26:23.089 have been a weird world back then. And then the 503 00:26:23.130 --> 00:26:28.210 real question is, is this the oldest civilization or is 504 00:26:28.269 --> 00:26:32.170 this the oldest reboot of civilization that was destroyed by 505 00:26:32.190 --> 00:26:35.329 the Great Flood? And by the younger Jairus impact and 506 00:26:35.529 --> 00:26:40.490 whatever the fuck could have happened to whatever civilization previously existed. 507 00:26:40.670 --> 00:26:43.299 That's when things get real squirrely. Yeah, well, exactly. 508 00:26:43.319 --> 00:26:45.700 Because if that is a civilization, which I think it's 509 00:26:45.720 --> 00:26:47.619 becoming clear that it is, then it doesn't really matter 510 00:26:47.660 --> 00:26:50.700 how you define civilization. It's clearly incredibly sophisticated. Like, it's 511 00:26:50.720 --> 00:26:51.779 a very sophisticated culture. 512 00:26:51.799 --> 00:26:52.579 Yeah, that word is a problem. 513 00:26:52.599 --> 00:26:53.240 Yeah, exactly. 514 00:26:53.279 --> 00:26:55.849 Just, like, who cares? It's clearly a very sophisticated culture. 515 00:26:55.869 --> 00:26:59.490 It's like when Fauci was talking about gain of function. Like, hey, fucker. 516 00:26:59.829 --> 00:27:00.049 Yeah. 517 00:27:00.069 --> 00:27:02.470 You know what we're talking about. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. 518 00:27:02.509 --> 00:27:02.650 But. 519 00:27:02.950 --> 00:27:06.640 But yeah, that means that, you know, the timeline of civilization, 520 00:27:06.680 --> 00:27:09.579 whatever you want to call it, has doubled from 6,000 521 00:27:09.579 --> 00:27:12.420 years to 12,000 years. So then the question becomes, how 522 00:27:12.440 --> 00:27:15.920 much further back does it go? Because clearly, Tashtapella, Gobekli Tepe, 523 00:27:15.940 --> 00:27:18.569 it's not the first thing these people built. They weren't 524 00:27:18.789 --> 00:27:21.569 starting from scratch. They weren't just hunter-gatherers that thought, let's 525 00:27:21.730 --> 00:27:24.410 try something new and build this. There's clearly a long 526 00:27:24.869 --> 00:27:26.609 procedure up to that point. So how far back does 527 00:27:26.650 --> 00:27:27.029 that go? 528 00:27:27.150 --> 00:27:30.190 And for people that don't know, we should probably explain 529 00:27:30.250 --> 00:27:33.569 that One of the reasons why they're able to accurately 530 00:27:33.650 --> 00:27:38.059 carbon test Gobekli Tepe is because– and this is where 531 00:27:38.079 --> 00:27:41.859 it gets really weird. The dirt is uniform in that 532 00:27:42.000 --> 00:27:48.019 it was intentionally covered. So these sites weren't covered just 533 00:27:48.099 --> 00:27:51.509 over time like maybe the Sphinx was in Egypt. They 534 00:27:51.529 --> 00:27:56.210 were covered intentionally and they were covered 11,600-ish years ago. 535 00:27:57.450 --> 00:28:00.549 So how old were they before they were covered? Yeah, 536 00:28:00.589 --> 00:28:00.869 of course. 537 00:28:00.910 --> 00:28:03.109 I mean, that's only the earliest date we have, but 538 00:28:03.130 --> 00:28:05.029 that doesn't mean it's the date that they were constructed. 539 00:28:05.049 --> 00:28:06.029 And why were they covered? 540 00:28:06.109 --> 00:28:07.990 Yeah, I mean, there is debate over that, but that's 541 00:28:08.029 --> 00:28:08.829 what Klaus Schmidt thought. 542 00:28:08.930 --> 00:28:10.210 What is the debate? 543 00:28:10.470 --> 00:28:12.470 Well, some people say it wasn't intentionally covered, and it 544 00:28:12.509 --> 00:28:14.269 was just kind of like a landslide. 545 00:28:14.309 --> 00:28:16.359 Like a crazy landslide that'll happen at once? 546 00:28:16.430 --> 00:28:17.759 Because, I mean, it's really hard to prove. 547 00:28:17.990 --> 00:28:21.019 What an amazing landslide that covers everything. Yeah, I mean, 548 00:28:21.359 --> 00:28:21.720 I don't know. 549 00:28:22.319 --> 00:28:25.819 I would still lean towards the original interpretation from the 550 00:28:25.839 --> 00:28:28.079 original archaeologist, Klaus Schmidt. 551 00:28:28.099 --> 00:28:30.569 And why did he think they covered it? I don't know. 552 00:28:30.589 --> 00:28:33.819 Like a conquering civilization where like, fuck these people and 553 00:28:33.839 --> 00:28:34.710 their beautiful pillars. 554 00:28:35.319 --> 00:28:36.920 No, I think he thought the people that built it 555 00:28:36.940 --> 00:28:37.279 covered it. 556 00:28:38.099 --> 00:28:38.400 Interesting. 557 00:28:38.420 --> 00:28:40.140 Well, I guess you can't tell, can you? And that's 558 00:28:40.160 --> 00:28:42.099 the thing with so much of this stuff is that 559 00:28:42.460 --> 00:28:45.700 no one knows. And especially the further back you get 560 00:28:45.720 --> 00:28:48.500 in time, anyone that talks with any confidence around the past, 561 00:28:48.519 --> 00:28:51.259 and this is one of my main bugbears with archaeology. Like, 562 00:28:52.160 --> 00:28:53.880 I love archaeology and I have a huge respect for 563 00:28:54.359 --> 00:28:56.720 archaeologists and I think they do amazing work, but one 564 00:28:56.740 --> 00:28:59.730 of my main bugbears is the confidence in which people 565 00:28:59.769 --> 00:29:02.619 talk about the past and ruling out other possibilities, because 566 00:29:03.210 --> 00:29:05.059 at the end of the day, none of us know 567 00:29:05.259 --> 00:29:07.460 what happened in the deep, deep past, especially when you 568 00:29:07.480 --> 00:29:10.640 start getting back to these crazy timescales. It's all speculation. 569 00:29:10.660 --> 00:29:12.900 And it doesn't matter if you're a YouTuber like me, 570 00:29:12.960 --> 00:29:15.519 or if you're a professor, we're all just speculating based 571 00:29:15.579 --> 00:29:17.869 on the very limited evidence that we have. And so 572 00:29:17.890 --> 00:29:20.670 I don't like it when people say definitive things. I 573 00:29:20.710 --> 00:29:23.009 always try and say, maybe this is the case, or 574 00:29:23.130 --> 00:29:25.309 maybe that's the case. We don't know. And I think 575 00:29:25.430 --> 00:29:27.630 everyone should approach history with that mindset. And that's kind 576 00:29:27.650 --> 00:29:31.039 of If I can get any message across to people, 577 00:29:31.480 --> 00:29:34.690 that is the message. Like, we don't know, and here's 578 00:29:34.730 --> 00:29:37.089 a possibility, and here's a possibility, and here's the evidence 579 00:29:37.130 --> 00:29:40.339 that we think is true, but, you know... it's really 580 00:29:40.380 --> 00:29:40.720 hard to. 581 00:29:40.680 --> 00:29:44.220 Tell but it also does stand to reason that biology 582 00:29:44.339 --> 00:29:48.079 and archaeology as they expand the timeline as biology has 583 00:29:48.140 --> 00:29:51.559 expanded the timeline archaeology should probably tag along. 584 00:29:51.519 --> 00:29:53.390 Well yeah that's what i mean about the fact that 585 00:29:53.509 --> 00:29:55.289 the rug's kind of been pulled out from underneath us 586 00:29:55.309 --> 00:29:59.099 yeah What on purpose means here? There's good reason to 587 00:29:59.140 --> 00:30:01.799 think humans intentionally deposited at least some of the fill. 588 00:30:03.799 --> 00:30:07.880 Enclosure D alone contained roughly 500 cubic meters of rubble 589 00:30:08.000 --> 00:30:13.619 and cultural debris and particular items including broken anthropomorphic sculpture 590 00:30:13.660 --> 00:30:17.339 heads appear to have been deliberately placed near pillars during refilling. 591 00:30:17.960 --> 00:30:20.779 But archaeologists do not have definitive evidence for the often 592 00:30:20.819 --> 00:30:25.259 repeated popular claim that its builders intentionally buried the entire 593 00:30:25.359 --> 00:30:28.349 site at once to hide it, preserve it, or mark 594 00:30:28.430 --> 00:30:32.569 a single ritual closure. The mound is man-made in the 595 00:30:32.609 --> 00:30:36.069 sense that it consists of accumulated archaeological deposits, but its 596 00:30:36.109 --> 00:30:41.369 formation involved both human actions and natural sediment movement, ending 597 00:30:41.430 --> 00:30:43.509 around 8,000 BCE. 598 00:30:44.009 --> 00:30:48.130 Yo. That's a long fucking time ago. I don't think 599 00:30:48.150 --> 00:30:50.230 people even really can wrap their head around how long 600 00:30:50.250 --> 00:30:55.019 we're talking. You know, especially, that's the other thing. One 601 00:30:55.279 --> 00:30:59.619 of the things that I loved about your whole video 602 00:30:59.640 --> 00:31:02.940 series was the one where you were talking about what 603 00:31:03.029 --> 00:31:06.630 would be left if there was a human civilization 100,000 604 00:31:06.630 --> 00:31:13.049 or more years ago. And that's not unreasonable if this 605 00:31:13.549 --> 00:31:18.930 biology assessment is correct, is that there have been humans 606 00:31:19.490 --> 00:31:22.920 far longer than we used to think. So that's the case. 607 00:31:22.940 --> 00:31:25.019 Because if we used to think it was 50,000 years, 608 00:31:25.259 --> 00:31:26.279 I think when I was in high school, they were 609 00:31:27.180 --> 00:31:29.920 saying the Homo sapiens were like 50,000 years old or 610 00:31:30.369 --> 00:31:35.109 maybe 100, right? And now the conventional estimate is like, what, three? 611 00:31:35.890 --> 00:31:39.170 So the oldest fossils we have of anatomically modern humans 612 00:31:39.369 --> 00:31:41.170 are 315 to 360,000 years old. I mean, it's the 613 00:31:41.210 --> 00:31:46.920 same fossil set from Jebel Aroud in Morocco and But 614 00:31:46.940 --> 00:31:49.279 this obviously is really hard to date accurately, but it's 615 00:31:49.299 --> 00:31:50.259 between 300 and 350,000. 616 00:31:50.240 --> 00:31:53.640 And then I think it's really important to note that 617 00:31:53.819 --> 00:31:58.460 the fossil record is incredibly incomplete because most people don't 618 00:31:58.500 --> 00:31:59.220 leave a fossil. 619 00:31:59.359 --> 00:32:02.119 It's so hard to like, it's so unlikely that you'd fossilize. 620 00:32:02.160 --> 00:32:03.299 It's something like one in a million. 621 00:32:03.799 --> 00:32:07.640 So it's such a crazy metric to like try to 622 00:32:07.859 --> 00:32:12.359 figure out what the past is from these tiny scraps. 623 00:32:12.420 --> 00:32:15.359 It's like trying to read a book. By a single 624 00:32:15.539 --> 00:32:17.880 shard of a piece of paper with a half a 625 00:32:17.920 --> 00:32:19.420 sentence in it. And you're like, what do you think 626 00:32:19.440 --> 00:32:22.599 this book was about? Like, fuck. Exactly. There's not much evidence. 627 00:32:23.099 --> 00:32:26.160 That's the problem. But the evidence that they do find 628 00:32:26.720 --> 00:32:32.390 is pushing the timeline way back, way back. And that alone, 629 00:32:32.450 --> 00:32:36.349 you would think archaeology would go, well, hey, guys, in 630 00:32:36.390 --> 00:32:39.150 light of this new evidence, maybe we should consider the 631 00:32:39.190 --> 00:32:41.529 possibility that civilization is quite a bit older than we think. 632 00:32:41.930 --> 00:32:47.180 They are the same exact animal. What would take them 300,000 633 00:32:47.180 --> 00:32:52.460 years to develop complex civilization and agriculture and all these 634 00:32:52.480 --> 00:32:54.910 different things? Like why would it take so long? And 635 00:32:54.950 --> 00:33:01.650 is it possible that given the– I mean the incredible 636 00:33:01.730 --> 00:33:05.609 possibilities in terms of like what kind of natural disasters 637 00:33:05.970 --> 00:33:09.680 took place, just asteroid impacts that we know, we find 638 00:33:09.720 --> 00:33:13.259 them all over the earth. All over the earth and 639 00:33:13.380 --> 00:33:16.599 some of them are 20,000 years old, 50,000 years old. 640 00:33:16.900 --> 00:33:19.059 We find them everywhere. What kind of an impact would 641 00:33:19.079 --> 00:33:22.019 that have had? What would be left of those civilizations? 642 00:33:22.059 --> 00:33:25.519 And all those questions, again, guys like you are the 643 00:33:25.579 --> 00:33:28.819 ones proposing them and putting them out there. And it's 644 00:33:28.859 --> 00:33:33.220 a really good question. It's– especially in light of what 645 00:33:33.240 --> 00:33:36.029 we understand about humans biologically. Like wouldn't– doesn't it make 646 00:33:36.109 --> 00:33:45.099 sense that these people, these just as– anatomically completely like us. Like, 647 00:33:45.200 --> 00:33:48.180 why would it take them hundreds of thousands of years 648 00:33:48.720 --> 00:33:49.829 to figure out a roof? 649 00:33:50.369 --> 00:33:54.609 Yeah, exactly. But I think we have clear evidence now 650 00:33:54.670 --> 00:34:02.049 that what we call modern intelligence, behavioral modernity, goes back so, so, 651 00:34:02.589 --> 00:34:05.119 so much further than we think. Like, I would argue 652 00:34:05.160 --> 00:34:08.079 back over a million years in light of a couple 653 00:34:08.099 --> 00:34:10.730 of papers that have come out. in the last 12 months. 654 00:34:11.309 --> 00:34:13.070 What are these papers? 655 00:34:13.090 --> 00:34:16.010 So, I mean, there's been two really significant papers, I think, 656 00:34:16.050 --> 00:34:20.409 since we last spoke. One of them, I think, has 657 00:34:20.530 --> 00:34:23.659 really big ramifications for human intelligence. And that's a paper 658 00:34:23.679 --> 00:34:27.420 that came out regarding the island of Sulawesi, which is 659 00:34:27.480 --> 00:34:31.539 in Indonesia. And this is in relation to human seafaring. 660 00:34:32.059 --> 00:34:35.789 So Seafaring was always thought to be an exclusively sapien strait, 661 00:34:35.909 --> 00:34:38.570 exclusively modern human strait, because it's a really hard thing 662 00:34:38.610 --> 00:34:40.139 to do, right? You need to be quite clever to 663 00:34:40.469 --> 00:34:44.179 build a boat, to build something that's sophisticated enough to 664 00:34:44.219 --> 00:34:47.380 be seaworthy, to get across ocean boundaries and to reach 665 00:34:47.460 --> 00:34:51.039 isolated landmasses. And we always thought that was only sapiens 666 00:34:51.079 --> 00:34:55.179 until very recently. But a paper came out in August 667 00:34:55.420 --> 00:34:58.300 last year. You actually sent it to me. You sent 668 00:34:58.320 --> 00:35:01.309 me a post that was about stone tools that was found. 669 00:35:01.349 --> 00:35:02.849 And I was like, that's interesting. I clicked on the paper. 670 00:35:03.230 --> 00:35:05.050 And then I was like, oh, wow, look where these 671 00:35:05.090 --> 00:35:07.869 stone tools were found. And it was really, really interesting 672 00:35:07.909 --> 00:35:10.849 because they were found on Sulawesi. And Sulawesi is an 673 00:35:11.130 --> 00:35:15.889 island that crucially sits east of something called the Wallace Line, 674 00:35:16.269 --> 00:35:19.030 which is a biogeographic boundary, which means that it has 675 00:35:19.090 --> 00:35:22.489 been an island and separated from the mainland for tens 676 00:35:22.530 --> 00:35:25.170 of millions of years and separated by deep ocean channels 677 00:35:25.690 --> 00:35:29.230 that are between, depending on the fluctuating sea levels at 678 00:35:29.250 --> 00:35:32.880 the time, between 50 and 100 kilometers across. So it's 679 00:35:32.900 --> 00:35:36.849 always been an island. And yet, in August 2025, archaeologists 680 00:35:37.489 --> 00:35:41.230 at a site called Callio found stone tools on Sulawesi. 681 00:35:41.670 --> 00:35:44.309 And that means that some type of human, probably not sapiens, 682 00:35:44.349 --> 00:35:46.409 but I guess you never know, some type of human 683 00:35:46.769 --> 00:35:51.119 managed to cross that ocean boundary and reach Sulawesi. And 684 00:35:51.139 --> 00:35:54.300 that's fascinating. But it's worth saying that it's not the 685 00:35:54.380 --> 00:35:57.900 only piece of evidence in the region. There's also a 686 00:35:58.320 --> 00:36:00.880 decade or so ago, we found stone tools on Flores, 687 00:36:01.199 --> 00:36:04.260 which is just below Sulawesi. It's another island and crucially, again, 688 00:36:04.780 --> 00:36:06.800 east of the Wallace line. So again, you have to 689 00:36:06.840 --> 00:36:09.019 cross an ocean boundary to get to Flores. And they 690 00:36:09.059 --> 00:36:13.900 found stone tools there that are 1.02 million years old. 691 00:36:13.940 --> 00:36:17.000 And I didn't even say the Sulawesi tools are 1.04 692 00:36:17.000 --> 00:36:21.679 to 1.4 million years old. So Over a million years ago, 693 00:36:21.739 --> 00:36:24.219 some type of human was crossing ocean boundaries to get 694 00:36:24.260 --> 00:36:27.139 to these islands. And there's also Luzon, which is just 695 00:36:27.199 --> 00:36:30.150 above Sulawesi, same region. And they found stone tools there, 696 00:36:30.190 --> 00:36:35.949 which are 700,000 years old. Now, the theory always was 697 00:36:35.989 --> 00:36:38.670 that this was an accident. When we just had Flores, 698 00:36:39.409 --> 00:36:42.650 the theory was that it was accidental drift. So a 699 00:36:42.730 --> 00:36:45.150 couple of humans were swept out to sea and somehow 700 00:36:45.210 --> 00:36:48.710 survived the the stormy ocean and the tropical sun cling 701 00:36:48.769 --> 00:36:52.469 to some driftwood and made it to Flores and somehow 702 00:36:52.510 --> 00:36:55.570 survived and colonized the island. But now that we've got Flores, 703 00:36:56.210 --> 00:36:59.429 Luzon and Sulawesi, three islands all in the same region, 704 00:36:59.489 --> 00:37:02.909 all separated by this ocean boundary, I think it's starting 705 00:37:02.929 --> 00:37:07.199 to point less towards accident and more towards behavior, right? 706 00:37:07.239 --> 00:37:12.900 More towards a deliberate sea crossing because to colonize, I 707 00:37:13.119 --> 00:37:16.159 was doing some research because of these discoveries and There's 708 00:37:16.260 --> 00:37:18.699 actually been a few papers from NASA on how many 709 00:37:18.739 --> 00:37:23.449 humans you need to colonize an isolated landmass because NASA 710 00:37:23.469 --> 00:37:24.769 were doing it for like, if you were going to 711 00:37:24.829 --> 00:37:28.150 Mars or something and you need a certain amount of 712 00:37:28.210 --> 00:37:33.809 humans of breeding age to not have like genetic problems 713 00:37:33.869 --> 00:37:36.690 in the population. So you need a certain amount of 714 00:37:36.730 --> 00:37:40.760 humans of a breeding age to ensure viability, right? Because 715 00:37:40.800 --> 00:37:42.440 otherwise you're going to inbreed and you're all going to 716 00:37:42.460 --> 00:37:45.030 die out because of genetic issues. And they said it 717 00:37:45.070 --> 00:37:49.130 was something like you need 160 people at least. And 718 00:37:49.170 --> 00:37:52.820 that is with strict breeding controls and genetic testing. We 719 00:37:52.860 --> 00:37:55.739 can probably assume they weren't doing genetic testing on themselves. 720 00:37:56.099 --> 00:37:58.119 And so then the number somewhere near 500. So what 721 00:37:59.019 --> 00:38:02.469 are the chances that 500 individuals were all swept out 722 00:38:02.530 --> 00:38:05.190 to sea at the same time, all survived the crossing 723 00:38:05.230 --> 00:38:09.440 and all landed on an island and colonized it? That's 724 00:38:09.500 --> 00:38:11.659 a huge amount of humans for an accident. Do you 725 00:38:11.679 --> 00:38:14.039 know what I mean? And then three times in three 726 00:38:14.119 --> 00:38:17.099 separate islands, all in the same region. At what point 727 00:38:17.119 --> 00:38:19.900 does accident start looking like behavior? Do you know what 728 00:38:19.920 --> 00:38:24.130 I mean? Because what are the chances of 500 individuals 729 00:38:24.230 --> 00:38:26.550 all being swept out to sea, all surviving, all reaching 730 00:38:26.570 --> 00:38:30.070 these islands and all colonizing in three separate occasions, all 731 00:38:30.090 --> 00:38:31.510 around about a million years ago? 732 00:38:32.889 --> 00:38:33.329 Not good. 733 00:38:33.670 --> 00:38:35.690 It's not a high chance, is it? And I think 734 00:38:35.730 --> 00:38:37.809 if we apply Occam's razor to it, which is the 735 00:38:38.090 --> 00:38:41.289 simplest explanation wins, I think the simplest explanation is that 736 00:38:41.429 --> 00:38:45.800 these humans were intelligent enough to build boats, right? 737 00:38:46.199 --> 00:38:47.159 Right. 738 00:38:47.320 --> 00:38:49.920 And that is a controversial opinion. That's not accepted. It's 739 00:38:49.960 --> 00:38:53.219 accepted that the humans reached these islands. That's not controversial. 740 00:38:53.420 --> 00:38:56.119 Humans were on these islands a million years ago, 700K. 741 00:38:56.159 --> 00:38:57.809 It's just not accepted that it was intentional. 742 00:38:57.929 --> 00:38:59.090 Yeah, it's not accepted that they built boats. 743 00:38:59.130 --> 00:39:01.449 That seems silly. But I think it's– It doesn't make 744 00:39:01.469 --> 00:39:04.309 any sense if it's not. 500 of them make it 745 00:39:04.389 --> 00:39:06.090 over by floating and surviving? 746 00:39:06.409 --> 00:39:06.590 Yeah. 747 00:39:06.989 --> 00:39:07.190 What? 748 00:39:07.510 --> 00:39:07.820 Exactly. 749 00:39:07.840 --> 00:39:09.139 All at the same time? Exactly. 750 00:39:09.280 --> 00:39:10.719 And this is what I mean about taking data points 751 00:39:10.739 --> 00:39:12.679 from different kind of science. 752 00:39:13.019 --> 00:39:13.239 Yeah. 753 00:39:13.900 --> 00:39:16.260 Because I'm looking into what NASA is saying about humans 754 00:39:16.280 --> 00:39:20.420 colonizing somewhere, and I'm saying, well, look, 500 people or 755 00:39:20.500 --> 00:39:22.809 more than 500 people of breeding age as well, not 756 00:39:22.829 --> 00:39:26.489 just people, all reaching an island on three separate occasions, 757 00:39:26.829 --> 00:39:29.969 all in the same region. Are we sure this wasn't deliberate? 758 00:39:30.260 --> 00:39:33.179 So I think that has huge ramifications for human intelligence 759 00:39:33.260 --> 00:39:37.510 because that was always thought to be exclusively Sapien's thing, 760 00:39:37.860 --> 00:39:40.469 building a boat, because that's really hard to build a boat. 761 00:39:40.489 --> 00:39:42.130 You have to have planning. You have to have foresight. 762 00:39:42.150 --> 00:39:45.349 You have to be good enough at carpentry to construct 763 00:39:45.369 --> 00:39:46.309 something that's seaworthy. 764 00:39:46.349 --> 00:39:48.010 You have to Trial and error. 765 00:39:48.190 --> 00:39:49.789 Yeah, trial and error. And you have to have the 766 00:39:50.230 --> 00:39:53.010 imagination as well to dream about what's on the other 767 00:39:53.050 --> 00:39:53.849 side of the horizon. 768 00:39:53.869 --> 00:39:54.050 Yes. 769 00:39:54.349 --> 00:39:57.539 And the bravery and the incredible reckless courage to go 770 00:39:57.619 --> 00:39:59.780 for it and to go out there across the horizon 771 00:39:59.820 --> 00:40:00.780 and reach an island. 772 00:40:00.820 --> 00:40:04.500 And possibly navigate through the stars. Like they knew how 773 00:40:04.539 --> 00:40:06.079 to do that. Maybe. 774 00:40:06.480 --> 00:40:08.739 Otherwise, why would you set out, you know? 775 00:40:08.849 --> 00:40:12.219 Right. And how would you repeat it? Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. 776 00:40:12.239 --> 00:40:13.619 Do you remember which way you went? 777 00:40:13.659 --> 00:40:18.590 Tower. It's a fucking dude with a giant brow ridge. 778 00:40:18.630 --> 00:40:18.889 Yeah. 779 00:40:19.190 --> 00:40:22.309 Furry face is telling you, I remember going this way. Like, 780 00:40:22.369 --> 00:40:24.969 are you fucking sure? How are you doing? Are you 781 00:40:24.989 --> 00:40:27.170 using the stars? Like, what are you doing? 782 00:40:27.190 --> 00:40:29.389 But humans weren't even meant to have complex language by then. 783 00:40:29.429 --> 00:40:31.369 They weren't meant to be capable of this. 784 00:40:31.550 --> 00:40:32.150 That's crazy. 785 00:40:32.190 --> 00:40:35.030 We're seeing these things. There has to be some sort 786 00:40:35.050 --> 00:40:37.769 of organization. If you're getting a group of people to 787 00:40:37.809 --> 00:40:40.050 agree to get in the boat. If they can't communicate 788 00:40:40.090 --> 00:40:43.269 with each other, that seems ridiculous. It seems even more ridiculous. 789 00:40:43.590 --> 00:40:46.730 Because let's say at the minimum of 50 kilometers, how 790 00:40:46.769 --> 00:40:49.289 long does it take you to row 50 kilometers? It 791 00:40:49.309 --> 00:40:50.449 seems like it would be days. 792 00:40:50.469 --> 00:40:53.289 It would be tough, wouldn't it? And an ocean as well. 793 00:40:53.369 --> 00:40:56.869 Yeah, right. If you even survive, how long is it 794 00:40:56.889 --> 00:40:58.969 going to take before you get across? I mean, maybe 795 00:40:59.010 --> 00:41:01.849 they figured out when the stormy season was and they 796 00:41:01.889 --> 00:41:04.690 time it for when it's not so stormy. But, I mean, 797 00:41:05.010 --> 00:41:06.719 how are they doing that? Do they have a calendar 798 00:41:06.739 --> 00:41:07.489 a million years ago? 799 00:41:07.989 --> 00:41:10.889 Whatever they were doing– If it was deliberate, which I 800 00:41:10.929 --> 00:41:13.510 think the evidence points towards, it's a clear sign of 801 00:41:13.570 --> 00:41:15.889 what we call modern intelligence. 802 00:41:16.090 --> 00:41:18.699 And organization and most likely communication. 803 00:41:19.239 --> 00:41:22.000 Which we always used to think only emerged 50,000 years ago. 804 00:41:22.019 --> 00:41:22.840 That's crazy. 805 00:41:22.880 --> 00:41:24.909 And so now, if it's over a million years old, 806 00:41:24.929 --> 00:41:25.769 you know, that's like a 20 times. 807 00:41:27.340 --> 00:41:30.360 And it could be 1.4. The Sulawesi tools are dated 808 00:41:30.579 --> 00:41:32.900 to 1.04 to 1.4. So that's, I don't know, what's that, 809 00:41:32.920 --> 00:41:33.980 like 25 times older than we think? 810 00:41:34.179 --> 00:41:37.119 That's so funny, that 0.4. That's a lot. 811 00:41:37.239 --> 00:41:37.840 It's huge. 812 00:41:37.909 --> 00:41:38.869 It's absolutely gigantic. 813 00:41:38.889 --> 00:41:39.550 Hundreds of thousands. 814 00:41:39.650 --> 00:41:41.329 Yeah, and this is what you were saying about, like, 815 00:41:41.369 --> 00:41:43.789 people can't get their heads around the sheer enormity of 816 00:41:43.809 --> 00:41:45.289 these timescales that we're talking about. 817 00:41:45.329 --> 00:41:48.969 Like, it's so long. Yeah. It's so long. Well, another 818 00:41:49.050 --> 00:41:52.840 weird one that's come up fairly recently that I know 819 00:41:52.860 --> 00:41:56.440 you've talked about is the copper mining in North America. 820 00:41:56.460 --> 00:41:56.599 Oh, yeah. 821 00:41:57.139 --> 00:42:01.599 That one blew me away. Just the volume of copper 822 00:42:02.010 --> 00:42:02.929 that was removed. 823 00:42:04.389 --> 00:42:07.849 Yeah, they had a whole copper industry in North America 9,000 824 00:42:07.849 --> 00:42:09.050 years ago. 825 00:42:09.309 --> 00:42:12.719 Just listen to that again. Say that one more time. 826 00:42:12.739 --> 00:42:15.579 A whole copper industry in North America 9,000 years ago. 827 00:42:15.639 --> 00:42:18.199 And that's the same as the earliest day anywhere else 828 00:42:18.239 --> 00:42:18.699 in the world. 829 00:42:19.420 --> 00:42:20.659 And the volume. 830 00:42:20.969 --> 00:42:23.329 This is what's going to freak people out. Tell them 831 00:42:23.429 --> 00:42:24.909 how much copper was removed. 832 00:42:25.090 --> 00:42:26.449 I don't know off the top of my head, but 833 00:42:26.510 --> 00:42:28.670 it's a lot. And to be fair, there's lots of 834 00:42:28.750 --> 00:42:30.469 natural copper. I think it's in the kind of northern 835 00:42:30.510 --> 00:42:33.159 parts of the United States as it is now. I 836 00:42:33.179 --> 00:42:34.659 don't know how much they removed off the top of 837 00:42:34.679 --> 00:42:37.000 my head, but it is a lot of copper. 838 00:42:37.420 --> 00:42:40.780 Like a commercial copper mine volume. 839 00:42:40.920 --> 00:42:42.059 Yeah, that's why I said industry. 840 00:42:42.099 --> 00:42:46.579 Like it's big. It's so crazy. And I don't understand 841 00:42:46.659 --> 00:42:49.119 how they determined the amount of copper that was removed. 842 00:42:49.559 --> 00:42:50.719 But if that is correct. 843 00:42:51.289 --> 00:42:55.070 That seems to indicate that there was some sort of 844 00:42:55.139 --> 00:43:01.159 sophisticated metallurgy going on in North America 9,000 years ago. 845 00:43:01.519 --> 00:43:04.619 Yeah, which is as early as anywhere else in the world. 846 00:43:05.000 --> 00:43:06.590 And that completely flies in the face of what we 847 00:43:06.639 --> 00:43:11.269 used to think about people in North America. And it's 848 00:43:11.309 --> 00:43:14.389 interesting because what the evidence appears to show is that 849 00:43:14.469 --> 00:43:16.590 they did this for a few thousand years, but then 850 00:43:16.650 --> 00:43:18.739 they dropped it and they stopped doing it. Now, I 851 00:43:18.739 --> 00:43:21.989 don't know what that suggests, but Either it suggests something 852 00:43:22.050 --> 00:43:23.809 happened to them or they decided they didn't want to 853 00:43:23.829 --> 00:43:25.989 do it anymore. But either way, it kind of goes 854 00:43:26.050 --> 00:43:28.889 against this idea that we've always kind of assumed that 855 00:43:29.409 --> 00:43:32.050 technology is like an escalator, right? We always assume that 856 00:43:32.070 --> 00:43:33.449 technology is an escalator. 857 00:43:33.590 --> 00:43:34.289 Yeah, there you go. 858 00:43:34.289 --> 00:43:35.409 1.5 billion pounds of copper. 859 00:43:35.889 --> 00:43:36.349 What? 860 00:43:37.170 --> 00:43:41.110 So wrap your head around this, folks. Archaeology and date 861 00:43:41.210 --> 00:43:44.860 mining and copper tool use, but it generally cannot calculate 862 00:43:45.000 --> 00:43:52.320 annual or century-specific production 9,500 years ago. One older broad 863 00:43:52.460 --> 00:43:56.369 estimate puts a total archaic period extraction in the Lake 864 00:43:56.389 --> 00:44:02.630 Superior region at up to about 1.5 billion pounds of copper, 865 00:44:02.949 --> 00:44:10.199 roughly 680,000 metric tons. But that covers many millennia, not 866 00:44:10.239 --> 00:44:14.360 the century 9,500 years ago. So that means that they 867 00:44:14.380 --> 00:44:20.190 were doing it for thousands of years. They're saying it 868 00:44:20.230 --> 00:44:21.409 covers many millennia. 869 00:44:21.809 --> 00:44:23.590 Yeah, they were doing it for, yeah, as it says, 870 00:44:23.630 --> 00:44:25.989 the peak between 7,000 and 5,000 years ago. 871 00:44:26.090 --> 00:44:30.190 That's crazy. That's crazy. 872 00:44:30.690 --> 00:44:34.409 So at least 9,500 years ago, they started doing this 873 00:44:35.130 --> 00:44:38.570 somewhere around there. And they did it for thousands of years. 874 00:44:38.949 --> 00:44:40.920 They removed copper for thousands of years. 875 00:44:41.099 --> 00:44:43.300 A bunch of it was just sitting on the top. 876 00:44:43.320 --> 00:44:45.460 They called it float copper, I think. 877 00:44:45.579 --> 00:44:45.900 Yeah. 878 00:44:46.219 --> 00:44:46.579 Like that. 879 00:44:47.599 --> 00:44:50.019 That's probably how they first started finding it. And then 880 00:44:50.059 --> 00:44:55.019 they probably started digging. Isn't it interesting how like precious, 881 00:44:55.059 --> 00:44:58.960 what we call precious metals, just they exist in weird deposits. 882 00:44:59.139 --> 00:45:01.699 It's like erratic. It's all over the place. It's like, 883 00:45:01.940 --> 00:45:02.579 come find me. 884 00:45:03.719 --> 00:45:03.940 Yeah. 885 00:45:04.320 --> 00:45:08.679 And these people use this stuff for weapons. They use 886 00:45:08.719 --> 00:45:11.840 this stuff for jewelry. They used it for all kinds 887 00:45:11.900 --> 00:45:14.559 of things. Arrow points, I'm sure. They probably used it 888 00:45:14.579 --> 00:45:16.829 for all sorts of things. They had to use it 889 00:45:16.849 --> 00:45:17.750 for weapons, right? 890 00:45:17.769 --> 00:45:18.170 Probably, yeah. 891 00:45:18.510 --> 00:45:19.889 I think they found like spear points and stuff. 892 00:45:19.969 --> 00:45:21.090 Yeah, maybe that makes sense. 893 00:45:21.409 --> 00:45:22.969 But then they dropped it and then they just, they 894 00:45:23.010 --> 00:45:25.150 stopped doing it. And we don't know why they did that. 895 00:45:25.570 --> 00:45:27.880 But as I was saying, it kind of. 896 00:45:28.030 --> 00:45:30.010 There's the copperhead arrow. 897 00:45:30.670 --> 00:45:33.809 It goes against this idea that we have that technology 898 00:45:33.849 --> 00:45:35.690 is like an escalator and you just take one level 899 00:45:35.710 --> 00:45:37.550 of technology and you keep going up. It shows that 900 00:45:37.739 --> 00:45:40.429 people can invent something or discover something and then stop 901 00:45:40.449 --> 00:45:42.059 doing it and forget about it. And I think that 902 00:45:42.099 --> 00:45:44.360 has implications for how we look at prehistory as a 903 00:45:44.380 --> 00:45:47.030 whole because it suggests that people You know, rather than 904 00:45:47.050 --> 00:45:49.750 just going straight line this linear path upwards, we can 905 00:45:49.789 --> 00:45:52.670 go up and down and forget things and rediscover things. 906 00:45:53.150 --> 00:45:53.369 Right. 907 00:45:53.829 --> 00:45:57.750 And that's what the– this is the alternative theory is 908 00:45:57.789 --> 00:46:02.590 that we're a reinvention of civilization currently and that we're 909 00:46:02.650 --> 00:46:06.119 the most advanced reinvention that we're aware of. But it 910 00:46:06.159 --> 00:46:08.380 doesn't mean that there hasn't been some sort of a 911 00:46:08.420 --> 00:46:13.800 civilization before us that perhaps reached heights where we are 912 00:46:14.179 --> 00:46:17.659 or greater in a completely different direction. And I think 913 00:46:17.960 --> 00:46:20.460 when you look at some of the stone structures that exist, 914 00:46:20.539 --> 00:46:24.719 those are the best evidence because they're so perplexing. The 915 00:46:24.760 --> 00:46:27.280 stones in Lebanon, what are they called? The Trilithon stones? 916 00:46:27.300 --> 00:46:28.019 Yeah, Baalbek. 917 00:46:28.099 --> 00:46:30.889 Yeah. Those are crazy. Like what happened there? 918 00:46:31.110 --> 00:46:31.389 How? 919 00:46:31.659 --> 00:46:33.030 What? How did you get them up there? 920 00:46:33.050 --> 00:46:36.170 It's weird because they're attributed to the Romans, right? But 921 00:46:36.210 --> 00:46:40.610 there's no Roman records of them doing that. And that's 922 00:46:40.650 --> 00:46:43.210 not particularly weird in itself until you realize that it's 923 00:46:43.469 --> 00:46:48.030 a bigger engineering project than anything the Romans did anywhere. 924 00:46:48.050 --> 00:46:50.269 I mean, the Colosseum is obviously an incredible thing, but 925 00:46:50.610 --> 00:46:53.150 the blocks aren't as big as these blocks at Baalbek. 926 00:46:53.710 --> 00:46:55.710 And yeah, they don't mention it anywhere. And you'd think that, 927 00:46:55.769 --> 00:46:58.980 you know, a civilization that documented as much the Romans 928 00:46:59.019 --> 00:47:02.460 would at least mention their biggest engineering project somewhere, you know? 929 00:47:02.500 --> 00:47:04.239 And I mean, that doesn't mean it wasn't the Romans, 930 00:47:04.280 --> 00:47:05.239 but it's just a weird thing. 931 00:47:05.639 --> 00:47:08.860 It's very weird. It's very weird. And it's also weird 932 00:47:08.940 --> 00:47:13.250 that like many places, The structures that are on top 933 00:47:13.289 --> 00:47:16.530 of it are not as sophisticated, not as difficult to do. 934 00:47:17.610 --> 00:47:19.289 That's how it is over and over and over again. 935 00:47:19.329 --> 00:47:21.849 That's Sacsayhuaman. That's a lot of these places. You see 936 00:47:22.389 --> 00:47:25.739 the base, the oldest stuff. It seems like they find 937 00:47:25.800 --> 00:47:27.380 stuff and they build on top of stuff that was 938 00:47:27.400 --> 00:47:30.380 already there. And then you're dealing with thousands and thousands 939 00:47:30.440 --> 00:47:33.019 of years of civilization where people don't even remember who 940 00:47:33.059 --> 00:47:37.079 built it. You know, like the gods. The gods put 941 00:47:37.119 --> 00:47:37.719 these rocks here. 942 00:47:37.900 --> 00:47:38.739 It happens all over the world. 943 00:47:38.940 --> 00:47:39.139 Yeah. 944 00:47:39.360 --> 00:47:41.739 People build on old sites because often the sites are 945 00:47:41.760 --> 00:47:43.739 the best site in the region because that's why someone's 946 00:47:43.760 --> 00:47:46.099 built there originally. So it makes sense to reuse them. 947 00:47:46.119 --> 00:47:48.400 But that doesn't mean that the latest civilization that used 948 00:47:48.440 --> 00:47:50.579 it was the first. I mean, it could be, but 949 00:47:50.619 --> 00:47:53.699 it also doesn't mean that they are definitively. But often 950 00:47:53.820 --> 00:47:57.420 that's how we take it. And, yeah, that's not necessarily 951 00:47:57.440 --> 00:47:58.659 the best way of looking at them, I think. 952 00:47:58.699 --> 00:48:01.880 I think what you said earlier is really important that– 953 00:48:02.519 --> 00:48:06.929 We can't possibly know. And to make these definitive statements 954 00:48:07.550 --> 00:48:10.489 about things where you just don't have enough evidence, you 955 00:48:10.510 --> 00:48:15.489 don't have enough facts, you can't really say definitively we know. 956 00:48:15.630 --> 00:48:19.519 And that drives experts crazy because they don't like to 957 00:48:19.579 --> 00:48:22.980 do that. They don't like to let that go, especially humans, 958 00:48:23.320 --> 00:48:27.500 especially men. They love the ego that comes with being 959 00:48:27.559 --> 00:48:31.460 the one who has the information, the expert opinion. That 960 00:48:31.480 --> 00:48:34.900 appeal to authority. That I'm the one who could tell you, oh. 961 00:48:34.929 --> 00:48:36.050 This is nonsense. 962 00:48:36.130 --> 00:48:43.230 These Michael Buttons on YouTube with their bullshit, their archaeological bullshit. 963 00:48:43.789 --> 00:48:45.909 They love doing that. But no one's listening to them. 964 00:48:46.150 --> 00:48:47.570 That's what's cute. Yeah. 965 00:48:47.929 --> 00:48:50.630 And, yeah, I mean, I'm grateful that a lot of 966 00:48:50.650 --> 00:48:51.449 people listen to me. 967 00:48:51.719 --> 00:48:53.949 Well, like I said, you're really good at it. And 968 00:48:54.170 --> 00:48:57.230 it is undeniably, just based on what we've said so far, 969 00:48:57.590 --> 00:49:02.139 this is undeniably strange. It's undeniably weird and it's undeniably, 970 00:49:02.179 --> 00:49:06.920 at least to me and you, interesting. And that's why 971 00:49:06.960 --> 00:49:11.949 the subject will– hopefully it will continue the pathway that 972 00:49:11.989 --> 00:49:15.150 it's on because there's so many people like you now 973 00:49:15.309 --> 00:49:17.309 that are looking at this stuff and they're very credible 974 00:49:17.349 --> 00:49:20.239 people who are very objective. The Ben Van Kirkwick. of 975 00:49:20.260 --> 00:49:22.820 the world and Jimmy Corsetti, all these people that are 976 00:49:22.840 --> 00:49:25.219 looking at stuff and go, hey, there's a lot going 977 00:49:25.420 --> 00:49:27.340 on here, people. There's a lot. 978 00:49:27.780 --> 00:49:31.079 Yeah, I think it's interesting that– like the more we uncover, 979 00:49:31.099 --> 00:49:34.030 the more we discover, the more new evidence that comes out. 980 00:49:34.090 --> 00:49:37.250 I think what we're starting to realize is that the 981 00:49:37.349 --> 00:49:42.190 limits on our own knowledge– vastly bigger than we ever 982 00:49:42.250 --> 00:49:44.050 used to think. We used to think we kind of 983 00:49:44.070 --> 00:49:45.690 had it figured out, and this is what I'm talking 984 00:49:45.730 --> 00:49:48.429 about with those three questions I mentioned at the start. 985 00:49:48.889 --> 00:49:50.690 We used to think we had the answer to these 986 00:49:50.730 --> 00:49:53.760 big questions, but with each new discovery, we're starting to 987 00:49:53.780 --> 00:49:58.440 realize just how vast the unknown is. I think there's 988 00:49:58.460 --> 00:50:00.780 two subjects where this kind of applies. I think the 989 00:50:00.820 --> 00:50:03.420 first is physics, and obviously I'm not smart enough or 990 00:50:03.500 --> 00:50:05.679 clever enough to talk about physics in any meaningful capacity, 991 00:50:05.719 --> 00:50:07.940 but I think it's fair to say that the more 992 00:50:07.980 --> 00:50:10.159 we learn about the nature of reality and the universe, 993 00:50:10.179 --> 00:50:11.920 the more we realize just how big it is and 994 00:50:11.960 --> 00:50:13.780 how crazy it is and how little we understand about 995 00:50:13.820 --> 00:50:16.360 our place in it. And I think the other subject 996 00:50:16.420 --> 00:50:19.179 is history. I think the more we learn about history, 997 00:50:19.619 --> 00:50:22.019 the more we realize how huge the amount of time 998 00:50:22.059 --> 00:50:24.300 humans have been on this planet is, how long a 999 00:50:24.320 --> 00:50:26.460 mind like ours has been on this planet, how long 1000 00:50:26.519 --> 00:50:29.300 humans that are very similar to us have been on 1001 00:50:29.360 --> 00:50:32.219 this planet is. And I think it's a vital thing 1002 00:50:32.260 --> 00:50:35.320 because it's, physics is kind of the question of where 1003 00:50:35.469 --> 00:50:38.079 are we, but History is kind of the question of 1004 00:50:38.760 --> 00:50:41.320 who are we and where did we come from? And 1005 00:50:41.340 --> 00:50:44.980 that's why I'm so interested in it because it's a 1006 00:50:45.440 --> 00:50:48.159 fundamental question to civilization and to who we are. And 1007 00:50:48.179 --> 00:50:50.699 I think it's really important. And so that's why I 1008 00:50:50.920 --> 00:50:51.599 talk about this stuff. 1009 00:50:52.179 --> 00:50:53.920 Yeah. And also it's cool. 1010 00:50:54.159 --> 00:50:55.760 It's very cool. It's so fascinating. 1011 00:50:55.780 --> 00:50:56.139 I love it. 1012 00:50:56.199 --> 00:50:57.219 And I know you love it too. 1013 00:50:57.260 --> 00:51:02.110 And it's great. Well, it's so weird. It's so weird 1014 00:51:02.150 --> 00:51:05.789 to think like what was it like thousands and thousands 1015 00:51:05.829 --> 00:51:08.880 of years ago? What did they know? Where did they 1016 00:51:08.920 --> 00:51:14.889 learn it? And are these stories, these flood myths that 1017 00:51:14.929 --> 00:51:17.869 exist in all these ancient cultures, is this an echo 1018 00:51:18.349 --> 00:51:24.070 of a historical record of people trying to keep track 1019 00:51:24.289 --> 00:51:27.469 of this event that took place that crushed us and 1020 00:51:27.510 --> 00:51:29.809 brought us down to a few thousand people all over 1021 00:51:29.829 --> 00:51:34.000 the world and we had to rebuild? And that's– also 1022 00:51:34.019 --> 00:51:38.150 when you go back, thousands of years in the conventional timeline, 1023 00:51:38.670 --> 00:51:42.829 people were so barbaric. They were so horrible just a 1024 00:51:42.869 --> 00:51:46.010 few thousand years ago. If they were capable 5,000 years 1025 00:51:46.070 --> 00:51:50.340 ago of building ancient Egypt, probably earlier than that. But 1026 00:51:51.030 --> 00:51:54.039 why were they so brutal 2,000 years ago? Because I 1027 00:51:54.079 --> 00:51:56.599 think those are the people that survived. I think the 1028 00:51:56.619 --> 00:51:59.360 people that survived were probably fucking terrible. 1029 00:52:00.139 --> 00:52:00.800 They had to be. 1030 00:52:00.820 --> 00:52:06.909 We know that the Toba volcano, which was like is 1031 00:52:06.929 --> 00:52:12.210 that Indonesia 70,000 years ago got us down to what 1032 00:52:12.269 --> 00:52:17.070 just a few thousand people globally yeah imagine that life 1033 00:52:19.090 --> 00:52:21.340 imagine what you had to do to stay alive imagine 1034 00:52:21.380 --> 00:52:24.500 even the thought of raising children in a world where 1035 00:52:24.519 --> 00:52:28.039 there's only 7,000 people left and limited amounts of food 1036 00:52:28.940 --> 00:52:31.659 and you know most of the population of earth is 1037 00:52:31.800 --> 00:52:35.570 dead what This is crazy. 1038 00:52:35.809 --> 00:52:37.670 We've been through some crazy things as a species. 1039 00:52:37.969 --> 00:52:38.260 Yeah. 1040 00:52:39.110 --> 00:52:39.730 You did it. 1041 00:52:39.800 --> 00:52:45.380 Didn't you do a video of there's some evidence that 1042 00:52:46.440 --> 00:52:49.380 at some point in history, most people were killed off 1043 00:52:49.440 --> 00:52:49.840 in war? 1044 00:52:50.760 --> 00:52:51.110 Yes. 1045 00:52:51.190 --> 00:52:53.389 That is related to what you were just saying about. 1046 00:52:53.610 --> 00:52:57.829 So just after the agricultural revolution, the theory is that 1047 00:52:57.929 --> 00:53:01.630 because humans then had like property. And we're kind of 1048 00:53:01.690 --> 00:53:04.750 defending things that people got a lot more violent. And 1049 00:53:04.769 --> 00:53:08.360 there's a lot of evidence that around 6,000 years ago, 1050 00:53:10.099 --> 00:53:13.480 basically all the men died. There's like evidence that 95% 1051 00:53:13.480 --> 00:53:15.460 of male bloodlines were removed. And we can see this 1052 00:53:15.500 --> 00:53:20.059 from the Y chromosome in genetics. And there's a massive 1053 00:53:20.099 --> 00:53:23.199 drop off of the diversity, the genetic diversity in male bloodlines. 1054 00:53:23.559 --> 00:53:26.909 And something like 95% went. And no one quite knows 1055 00:53:26.949 --> 00:53:28.809 why this is, but we see lots of mass graves 1056 00:53:28.849 --> 00:53:31.940 around this time and violent graves and like all these 1057 00:53:31.980 --> 00:53:33.900 people were killing each other. And it might not have 1058 00:53:33.920 --> 00:53:35.780 been that, but it's weird that it only affected men 1059 00:53:35.840 --> 00:53:37.699 because if it was a natural disaster, it would, you know, 1060 00:53:37.719 --> 00:53:41.159 it wouldn't be specific to either gender, but it's only men. 1061 00:53:41.239 --> 00:53:43.840 So some people think it's like a big amount of 1062 00:53:43.860 --> 00:53:47.179 violence and that no one really knows, but it's really interesting. 1063 00:53:47.199 --> 00:53:50.030 Well, doesn't it make sense though? I mean think if 1064 00:53:50.070 --> 00:53:53.329 you go from hunter and gathering where you're constantly moving, 1065 00:53:53.550 --> 00:53:56.230 nomadic tribes, people– a bunch of people that stick together. 1066 00:53:56.869 --> 00:53:59.030 You're in tents or whatever. And then all of a 1067 00:53:59.030 --> 00:54:03.900 sudden you're stationary and you've developed agriculture and you stay put. 1068 00:54:04.199 --> 00:54:06.920 And then there's hunter-gatherer tribes that still exist because guess what? 1069 00:54:06.940 --> 00:54:08.960 They still exist today. So it's not like it was 1070 00:54:08.980 --> 00:54:12.440 a uniform discovery of agriculture. Everybody adopted it and there 1071 00:54:12.480 --> 00:54:15.420 was no more hunter-gatherer tribes and there's no more tribes 1072 00:54:15.460 --> 00:54:16.860 of wandering marauders. 1073 00:54:16.880 --> 00:54:17.219 Mm-hmm. 1074 00:54:17.679 --> 00:54:20.199 So there's still these tribes of wandering marauders. And so 1075 00:54:20.239 --> 00:54:22.960 now you have to defend this spot because you're stuck 1076 00:54:23.019 --> 00:54:27.429 there because you're dumbass built a house. Like the Mongols 1077 00:54:27.489 --> 00:54:29.190 used to make fun of people that lived in houses. 1078 00:54:29.349 --> 00:54:34.630 They thought they were fools and they lived in felt tents, period. 1079 00:54:34.650 --> 00:54:37.219 That's how you're supposed to live. You keep moving. And 1080 00:54:37.280 --> 00:54:39.809 this idea of staying put, like, look at these idiots. Like, 1081 00:54:39.929 --> 00:54:42.050 we're just going to go sack their city. Like, they 1082 00:54:42.070 --> 00:54:44.250 really had no respect for people that were so stupid 1083 00:54:44.289 --> 00:54:47.210 that they stuck themselves behind walls. Like, you assholes can't 1084 00:54:47.230 --> 00:54:50.909 even run away. We're going to launch lit human beings 1085 00:54:51.010 --> 00:54:53.860 on fire with catapults onto your thatched roofs and set 1086 00:54:53.929 --> 00:54:57.380 everything ablaze. You know, it turns out people are really 1087 00:54:57.440 --> 00:54:59.739 good at starting fires when you light them on fire 1088 00:54:59.760 --> 00:55:04.460 because we're fatty. Mongols figured out a lot of cute stuff. But. 1089 00:55:05.019 --> 00:55:08.019 You know, it makes sense that that's when war would 1090 00:55:08.059 --> 00:55:12.530 become ubiquitous. This episode is brought to you by Ketone IQ. 1091 00:55:12.750 --> 00:55:15.469 I've tried a lot of supplements, but for years it's 1092 00:55:15.489 --> 00:55:17.579 been one thing that I've been obsessed with to keep 1093 00:55:17.619 --> 00:55:21.019 my brain locked in, and that's ketones. an energy molecule 1094 00:55:21.199 --> 00:55:24.840 our brains naturally create when pushed to our limits. Ketones 1095 00:55:24.940 --> 00:55:27.739 used to cost thousands of dollars a shot and were 1096 00:55:27.820 --> 00:55:31.260 only used by super elite people. 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Go to ketone.com slash rogan for 1106 00:56:03.659 --> 00:56:07.820 30% off your subscription order or find Ketone IQ at 1107 00:56:07.940 --> 00:56:11.780 Target stores nationwide in the protein and electrolyte aisle today. 1108 00:56:12.079 --> 00:56:15.449 and get your first shot free. They're so confident in 1109 00:56:15.510 --> 00:56:19.969 it that they even offer a 60-day money-back guarantee. So 1110 00:56:20.030 --> 00:56:21.409 go ahead and take your shot. 1111 00:56:21.789 --> 00:56:23.590 Yeah, once we settle down and once we owned. 1112 00:56:24.030 --> 00:56:26.510 Just stay put. You've become a target. Exactly. 1113 00:56:26.550 --> 00:56:28.940 And you have something to defend, be it livestock or 1114 00:56:28.960 --> 00:56:31.780 crops or houses, as you say. And so, yeah, there's 1115 00:56:31.800 --> 00:56:33.920 quite a lot of evidence that violence did increase massively 1116 00:56:34.000 --> 00:56:37.300 as we entered the kind of agricultural age that we're 1117 00:56:37.539 --> 00:56:39.619 still in. So that is interesting. 1118 00:56:40.639 --> 00:56:43.199 It's very interesting and it also is logical. It's a 1119 00:56:43.219 --> 00:56:46.519 logical progression of how people would behave given the fact 1120 00:56:46.559 --> 00:56:48.579 that now all of a sudden they have resources that 1121 00:56:48.599 --> 00:56:51.840 they've accumulated. They have a very specific location. They have 1122 00:56:51.860 --> 00:56:54.719 to defend that location. That's when people figure out walls 1123 00:56:54.820 --> 00:57:00.190 and that's a bigger– whatever. The weird thing is the 1124 00:57:00.570 --> 00:57:04.349 Great Wall of China. Like the arrow turrets are facing 1125 00:57:04.369 --> 00:57:05.630 the wrong way. Really? 1126 00:57:06.190 --> 00:57:06.590 Yeah. 1127 00:57:07.070 --> 00:57:09.349 Yeah, a lot of it. A lot of the Great Wall, 1128 00:57:09.429 --> 00:57:12.000 the arrows– Are facing inward. 1129 00:57:12.460 --> 00:57:14.570 To try to keep people in rather than out? 1130 00:57:14.590 --> 00:57:18.829 Or try to keep people from China. Escaping. Going to wherever, 1131 00:57:19.010 --> 00:57:21.650 whatever's on the other side. It might have been some 1132 00:57:21.909 --> 00:57:24.849 sections of it weren't constructed by the people that we 1133 00:57:24.869 --> 00:57:27.309 think were constructed it. You ever seen that? 1134 00:57:27.650 --> 00:57:28.250 No, I've never seen that. 1135 00:57:28.309 --> 00:57:31.400 It's very weird. Like people have pondered like why are 1136 00:57:31.420 --> 00:57:35.480 the arrow? Because there's these slots where they can be 1137 00:57:35.519 --> 00:57:38.900 protected but shoot arrows through. But they're facing towards China. 1138 00:57:39.239 --> 00:57:39.420 Yeah. 1139 00:57:39.679 --> 00:57:43.159 They're not like China defending the wall against the Huns. 1140 00:57:43.679 --> 00:57:44.219 It's weird. 1141 00:57:44.599 --> 00:57:46.019 That is strange. That is strange. 1142 00:57:46.139 --> 00:57:46.980 See if you can find some of that. 1143 00:57:47.300 --> 00:57:50.289 I'm looking it up. 1144 00:57:50.300 --> 00:57:52.059 It's not a really great answer in this. 1145 00:57:53.219 --> 00:57:55.159 So part of it is and part of it isn't. 1146 00:57:55.820 --> 00:57:59.239 Mostly the Great Wall's defensive features face north outward towards 1147 00:57:59.280 --> 00:58:02.300 the steppe, the usual direction of major raids and invasions, 1148 00:58:02.320 --> 00:58:06.739 but many surviving sections have arrow slits and parapets facing 1149 00:58:06.820 --> 00:58:12.079 both north and south, including seemingly inward towards China. Why 1150 00:58:12.099 --> 00:58:15.739 face inward? Defense after a breach. If attackers crossed the 1151 00:58:15.800 --> 00:58:18.699 wall or captured a tower, so they prepared to be invaded? 1152 00:58:20.099 --> 00:58:23.590 Chinese garrisons needed to shoot and counterattack from the south 1153 00:58:23.610 --> 00:58:26.949 side as well. Control of movement both ways. The wall 1154 00:58:26.969 --> 00:58:29.369 was a network of forts, gates, signals, roads, not just 1155 00:58:29.429 --> 00:58:33.130 a one-sided barrier. Also regulated border crossings, trade, and movement. 1156 00:58:34.349 --> 00:58:37.739 It is crazy that they've invented a wall that you 1157 00:58:37.760 --> 00:58:40.110 could see from space. I know, it's wild. 1158 00:58:40.250 --> 00:58:41.929 It's like one of the biggest engineering projects ever. 1159 00:58:42.369 --> 00:58:44.510 Like, how long is that? Is it like a thousand 1160 00:58:44.550 --> 00:58:45.510 miles or something crazy? 1161 00:58:45.530 --> 00:58:46.550 I have no idea, but it's big. 1162 00:58:46.650 --> 00:58:51.889 How long is the Great Wall of China? Take a guess. 1163 00:58:52.489 --> 00:58:55.369 I say a thousand miles. It's probably more. Easily. 1164 00:58:56.070 --> 00:58:57.650 China's so big in itself and the fact that it's 1165 00:58:57.670 --> 00:58:58.170 the whole, like. 1166 00:58:58.449 --> 00:59:00.030 Yeah. What do you think, Jamie? Take a guess. 1167 00:59:00.030 --> 00:59:00.530 6,000 kilometers. 6,000? 1168 00:59:00.530 --> 00:59:00.650 Yeah. 1169 00:59:00.670 --> 00:59:00.809 Wow. 1170 00:59:00.829 --> 00:59:01.050 Jesus, Jamie. 1171 00:59:01.070 --> 00:59:01.139 Wow. 1172 00:59:06.409 --> 00:59:08.500 You would be really good on The Price is Right. 1173 00:59:08.559 --> 00:59:10.920 Oh my god 21,000 kilometers. 1174 00:59:11.460 --> 00:59:13.420 Holy shit oh my god oh my god 13,171 miles 1175 00:59:13.440 --> 00:59:15.219 motherfucker that's crazy have you ever. 1176 00:59:15.199 --> 00:59:18.539 Been there no. 1177 00:59:29.860 --> 00:59:30.219 I've been there. 1178 00:59:30.239 --> 00:59:33.500 It's crazy. It's amazing. It's so beautiful. The whole region 1179 00:59:33.539 --> 00:59:34.980 around there, I mean, obviously it's really long. 1180 00:59:35.059 --> 00:59:40.110 The famous continuous-looking Ming-era wall that most visitors picture is 1181 00:59:40.170 --> 00:59:47.010 much shorter, still 8,850 kilometers. When associated structures and natural 1182 00:59:47.110 --> 00:59:51.530 barriers are included, UNESCO describes the overall Great Wall complex 1183 00:59:51.630 --> 00:59:55.510 as more than 20,000 kilometers long. So at the very least, 1184 00:59:55.610 --> 01:00:02.449 the part that you visit The Ming era wall, 8,850 kilometers, 1185 01:00:02.530 --> 01:00:08.349 which is fucking wild. That is so much wall. Yeah. 1186 01:00:09.650 --> 01:00:12.679 Like what were they doing? So it was built over 2,000 1187 01:00:12.679 --> 01:00:17.340 years from early walls in the 5th to 3rd centuries 1188 01:00:17.400 --> 01:00:21.300 BCE through major work in the Ming dynasty, which ended 1189 01:00:21.519 --> 01:00:24.340 in 1644. Have you ever seen some of the stuff 1190 01:00:24.440 --> 01:00:29.559 that Cassie Coppersmith– has uh talked about in regards to 1191 01:00:29.579 --> 01:00:32.679 uh ancient technology evidence from china. 1192 01:00:33.559 --> 01:00:37.949 Not specifically her stuff but there's lots of weird lots 1193 01:00:38.010 --> 01:00:39.389 of weird things in ancient china. 1194 01:00:39.170 --> 01:00:43.510 Yeah weird stuff like jade artifacts that seem to be 1195 01:00:43.550 --> 01:00:46.409 machined that don't make any sense that are like super 1196 01:00:46.590 --> 01:00:49.760 old and that seem to be artifacts that were passed 1197 01:00:49.780 --> 01:00:55.000 down from generation to generation and the Thousands of years ago, 1198 01:00:55.340 --> 01:00:58.940 the civilization that was in possession of them, their current 1199 01:00:59.920 --> 01:01:03.739 ability to make artifacts was much cruder. So it seems 1200 01:01:03.780 --> 01:01:06.099 like this was older stuff that they had somehow or 1201 01:01:06.119 --> 01:01:06.900 another acquired. 1202 01:01:07.039 --> 01:01:08.119 And they lost their knowledge of. 1203 01:01:08.059 --> 01:01:13.260 … Like wafer-thin jade, highly polished, seemed to be machined, 1204 01:01:13.469 --> 01:01:14.889 like weird stuff. 1205 01:01:16.349 --> 01:01:19.670 I haven't seen that specifically, but yeah, that's interesting. I 1206 01:01:19.809 --> 01:01:20.389 don't know about that. 1207 01:01:20.780 --> 01:01:27.820 Yeah, it seems like a really clear pattern that exists everywhere, 1208 01:01:28.260 --> 01:01:32.099 that there was something like these ancient vases that they 1209 01:01:32.159 --> 01:01:35.610 find in Egypt, that they find these in these old sites, 1210 01:01:36.369 --> 01:01:39.530 and that these things that were carved out of diorite, 1211 01:01:39.570 --> 01:01:43.889 which is insanely hard stone, and carved to, you know, 1212 01:01:43.929 --> 01:01:48.079 within less than a human hair of variance, not only that, 1213 01:01:48.510 --> 01:01:50.570 If it was on a lathe, how do you account 1214 01:01:50.610 --> 01:01:53.150 for the fact that it has these handles on the side? 1215 01:01:53.190 --> 01:01:56.050 How the fuck did they do this? And this was 1216 01:01:56.090 --> 01:02:00.090 all stuff that was like really, really old by the 1217 01:02:00.130 --> 01:02:03.230 time these people had it. And that these people, their 1218 01:02:03.789 --> 01:02:08.650 current state of pottery and sculpture is much cruder than 1219 01:02:08.690 --> 01:02:11.110 this stuff. So it seems like these are like really 1220 01:02:11.269 --> 01:02:13.869 old things that are artifacts of a time where things 1221 01:02:13.889 --> 01:02:17.000 were more sophisticated. So it's more evidence of this … 1222 01:02:17.400 --> 01:02:17.679 Up and. 1223 01:02:17.619 --> 01:02:18.380 Down nature of technology. 1224 01:02:18.420 --> 01:02:19.019 Up and down nature. 1225 01:02:19.260 --> 01:02:19.380 Yeah. 1226 01:02:19.400 --> 01:02:22.139 I mean, it's logical, right, that people learn things, discover things, 1227 01:02:22.719 --> 01:02:24.780 excel at them, and then later people forget them. 1228 01:02:25.320 --> 01:02:28.349 Of course, especially when you take into consideration natural disasters. 1229 01:02:28.889 --> 01:02:34.030 Natural disasters, wars, things along those lines. You know, like Baghdad, 1230 01:02:34.530 --> 01:02:37.010 before the Mongols got there, was like the center of 1231 01:02:37.070 --> 01:02:38.860 science in the world. Yeah, yeah. 1232 01:02:39.239 --> 01:02:41.309 The Arabs, yeah, they were incredible at science. And then 1233 01:02:41.309 --> 01:02:43.980 … It's just the natural cycle of civilizations. And we 1234 01:02:44.000 --> 01:02:46.139 see that throughout recorded history. So why would it not 1235 01:02:46.159 --> 01:02:49.159 be the case for human beings in the much, much, much, much, 1236 01:02:49.199 --> 01:02:52.489 much larger period of time, which is prehistory? But it's 1237 01:02:52.530 --> 01:02:55.989 not just thing is it's not just like natural disasters 1238 01:02:56.030 --> 01:02:57.969 and things. And obviously that plays a part. But it's 1239 01:02:58.010 --> 01:03:00.610 also just the sheer nature of preservation. 1240 01:03:00.880 --> 01:03:01.050 Right. 1241 01:03:01.460 --> 01:03:03.340 Such a long amount of time that we've been around 1242 01:03:03.960 --> 01:03:07.760 human beings on this planet. It's just almost impossible for 1243 01:03:07.800 --> 01:03:11.059 things to survive when we talk about these 100,000 years, 200,000 years. 1244 01:03:11.559 --> 01:03:13.840 It's so hard for things to survive that long. 1245 01:03:14.139 --> 01:03:14.300 Right. 1246 01:03:14.400 --> 01:03:19.019 Any objects, any things that would be left over, like 1247 01:03:19.719 --> 01:03:22.699 I'm sure you've seen those AI depictions of what New 1248 01:03:22.719 --> 01:03:25.150 York City would look like in just 1,000 years. It's 1249 01:03:25.170 --> 01:03:27.030 like nothing. Everything is crumbling, gone. 1250 01:03:27.610 --> 01:03:28.130 It's mental. 1251 01:03:28.369 --> 01:03:30.730 No buildings, no glass. Everything gets absorbed in the earth. 1252 01:03:30.789 --> 01:03:34.090 You've got a jungle where Manhattan is. And maybe you 1253 01:03:34.110 --> 01:03:36.369 would stumble upon a piece of metal one day. Yeah. 1254 01:03:36.570 --> 01:03:38.050 But even then, like, I mean, I've done quite a 1255 01:03:38.050 --> 01:03:40.550 lot of research on material degradation and almost all our 1256 01:03:40.570 --> 01:03:44.010 modern materials other than stone are gone in a few millennia. 1257 01:03:44.190 --> 01:03:45.750 And a few millennia is a long time, but not 1258 01:03:45.829 --> 01:03:47.349 compared to these timescales that we're talking about. 1259 01:03:47.429 --> 01:03:51.469 No, if these timescales are accurate in terms of the 1260 01:03:51.610 --> 01:03:57.030 human brain, in terms of the ability to logically like 1261 01:03:57.139 --> 01:04:01.139 view the world, invent things, creativity, if they possess this 300,000 1262 01:04:01.139 --> 01:04:07.630 years ago Like, why wouldn't they have figured a lot 1263 01:04:07.650 --> 01:04:08.289 of this stuff out? 1264 01:04:08.550 --> 01:04:11.550 They definitely did. That's the thing. Like, the seafaring thing 1265 01:04:11.610 --> 01:04:13.329 over 1 million years ago, okay, you can debate it. 1266 01:04:13.449 --> 01:04:15.010 It could have been an accident, I suppose. I don't 1267 01:04:15.030 --> 01:04:17.090 think it is, but you can debate it. But I 1268 01:04:17.139 --> 01:04:20.639 think that we have completely undisputable evidence that human beings 1269 01:04:20.699 --> 01:04:24.820 were this intelligent 500,000 years ago with the Colombo structure, 1270 01:04:24.840 --> 01:04:26.739 which we spoke about a lot last time. But that 1271 01:04:26.820 --> 01:04:33.789 is undeniable evidence that some kind of human was unbelievably smart. 476,000 1272 01:04:33.789 --> 01:04:34.929 years ago? 1273 01:04:34.949 --> 01:04:36.800 Yeah, it was building houses. 1274 01:04:37.340 --> 01:04:38.400 Or building something. 1275 01:04:38.559 --> 01:04:39.500 Some sort of structure. 1276 01:04:39.619 --> 01:04:42.980 Whatever that is requires incredible levels of intelligence. It is 1277 01:04:43.079 --> 01:04:45.840 clear evidence of what we define as modern behavior. 1278 01:04:46.079 --> 01:04:47.480 Right, and it probably wasn't a one-off. 1279 01:04:47.840 --> 01:04:48.280 Definitely not. 1280 01:04:48.519 --> 01:04:50.679 And so this is what you found. So then it means, 1281 01:04:51.010 --> 01:04:55.289 were they teaching each other? So, okay. So if they 1282 01:04:55.309 --> 01:04:57.449 were teaching each other, what kind of language did they have? 1283 01:04:58.269 --> 01:05:00.409 What kind of concepts could they grasp? 1284 01:05:00.889 --> 01:05:04.329 You're not doing that without abstract thinking without symbolic intelligence 1285 01:05:04.389 --> 01:05:05.150 right and. 1286 01:05:05.210 --> 01:05:08.210 How far did it go because if it's very rare 1287 01:05:08.269 --> 01:05:11.090 that we find a piece of wood from that long 1288 01:05:11.150 --> 01:05:13.099 ago that we can carbon date and that we can 1289 01:05:13.139 --> 01:05:16.019 test so how much how much do we not find 1290 01:05:16.340 --> 01:05:16.699 most of. 1291 01:05:16.739 --> 01:05:19.460 It almost all of it because the chances of that 1292 01:05:19.480 --> 01:05:23.679 surviving is so unbelievably unlikely. 1293 01:05:24.389 --> 01:05:27.730 I'm a moron but uh i had a thought uh 1294 01:05:27.969 --> 01:05:34.320 my thought was if AI can get so intelligent that 1295 01:05:34.519 --> 01:05:39.250 it can do an accurate account of all of the 1296 01:05:39.510 --> 01:05:43.670 objects on Earth, all of the people on Earth, all 1297 01:05:43.690 --> 01:05:47.750 of the things on Earth, essentially every molecule that exists 1298 01:05:47.949 --> 01:05:52.210 on Earth, and then extrapolate back to how they got 1299 01:05:52.269 --> 01:05:56.210 in that position in the first place, whether through natural 1300 01:05:56.309 --> 01:06:00.329 ore deposits, natural disasters, volcanoes, all these different things like 1301 01:06:01.090 --> 01:06:07.150 I wonder what kind of a version of a timeline 1302 01:06:07.710 --> 01:06:10.329 we would be able to construct with like a super 1303 01:06:10.369 --> 01:06:14.510 advanced artificial intelligence. I wonder if it's possible to get 1304 01:06:14.530 --> 01:06:18.619 a framework that is much more definitive than what we're 1305 01:06:18.639 --> 01:06:21.639 looking at now. I don't know if it's possible. I mean, 1306 01:06:21.840 --> 01:06:24.139 you'd have to have enough technology that you would be 1307 01:06:24.179 --> 01:06:27.579 able to literally like scan the entire outer crust of 1308 01:06:27.619 --> 01:06:34.110 the earth, which seems daunting today. But ground-penetrating radar seemed 1309 01:06:34.230 --> 01:06:37.650 ridiculous 500 years ago, right? So as we continue to 1310 01:06:37.710 --> 01:06:43.139 expand– I mean AI is solving math equations that have 1311 01:06:43.239 --> 01:06:46.440 perplexed mathematicians for 50 years. They're solving it like that. 1312 01:06:46.460 --> 01:06:49.860 So this is a new thing. It's a very rapidly 1313 01:06:49.920 --> 01:06:54.820 emerging thing. I wonder what kind of a version, what 1314 01:06:54.840 --> 01:06:58.219 kind of a map of history, at least in terms 1315 01:06:58.300 --> 01:07:01.659 of like Rough timelines of things we'll be able to get. 1316 01:07:03.039 --> 01:07:05.260 That's the great hope for archaeology, right? Is that modern 1317 01:07:05.280 --> 01:07:09.280 technology allows us to discover things that we previously would 1318 01:07:09.300 --> 01:07:10.920 not have been able to discover. And as you say, 1319 01:07:10.960 --> 01:07:13.480 LIDAR is the current example of that. But if you 1320 01:07:13.500 --> 01:07:16.800 just extrapolate forward, what else could we possibly use to 1321 01:07:16.840 --> 01:07:17.880 discover things that we haven't? 1322 01:07:17.900 --> 01:07:21.440 And of course, something like that will emerge. Because nobody 1323 01:07:21.860 --> 01:07:24.739 even considered LIDAR. Again, 500 years ago, what are you 1324 01:07:24.780 --> 01:07:27.679 talking about? 500 years from now, who the fuck knows? 1325 01:07:27.949 --> 01:07:32.010 Who knows? We literally can't imagine what kind of breakthroughs 1326 01:07:32.070 --> 01:07:32.650 are available. 1327 01:07:34.690 --> 01:07:38.940 That's the hope. But again, I think part of what 1328 01:07:39.000 --> 01:07:42.480 makes me think that perhaps we're not going to discover 1329 01:07:42.519 --> 01:07:45.300 stuff is this preservation problem because so much of it 1330 01:07:45.739 --> 01:07:48.099 is just gone. I mean, I guess if like what 1331 01:07:48.139 --> 01:07:49.960 you say, if we can like somehow extrapolate. 1332 01:07:49.980 --> 01:07:50.699 Or time machines. 1333 01:07:50.840 --> 01:07:51.449 Yeah, I mean. 1334 01:07:51.469 --> 01:07:53.849 They could figure out a time machine that'll throw the 1335 01:07:53.869 --> 01:07:55.969 whole monkey wrench right into the gears. 1336 01:07:57.289 --> 01:08:01.289 Well, I think that whatever happens our current understanding of 1337 01:08:01.349 --> 01:08:05.880 history that's that cannot be the the kind of end 1338 01:08:05.909 --> 01:08:08.699 point that what we currently think about history is is 1339 01:08:08.880 --> 01:08:10.780 there's no way that we've like reached. 1340 01:08:10.940 --> 01:08:13.400 No there's no way we're done and. 1341 01:08:12.860 --> 01:08:14.420 That's why it frustrates me so much when people are 1342 01:08:14.440 --> 01:08:16.760 so definitive about it because it's like you really think 1343 01:08:16.800 --> 01:08:19.500 that we're not gonna because i mean that's the science 1344 01:08:19.539 --> 01:08:21.979 is always advancing in every single field all the time 1345 01:08:22.020 --> 01:08:24.939 are we We're never at the point where we've discovered everything. 1346 01:08:24.979 --> 01:08:27.140 And yet there's always people in every period of history 1347 01:08:27.180 --> 01:08:29.119 that think this is the kind of upper limit. 1348 01:08:30.039 --> 01:08:35.579 What would be around from 300,000 years ago? Other than 1349 01:08:35.619 --> 01:08:38.220 what we've found so far, stone tools, shit like that, 1350 01:08:38.500 --> 01:08:40.439 like that'll would all be gone. 1351 01:08:40.939 --> 01:08:42.859 Well, that's the thing. Everything would be gone unless it's 1352 01:08:42.880 --> 01:08:46.819 like incredibly unlikely preservation, like the Colombo structure, like incredibly 1353 01:08:47.180 --> 01:08:48.899 unlikely for it to happen. But I mean, there could 1354 01:08:48.920 --> 01:08:50.840 be other things like that out there and there almost certainly. 1355 01:08:50.619 --> 01:08:53.630 Is, but yeah. Most things will be gone. That's what's exciting. 1356 01:08:53.770 --> 01:08:55.699 It's like, God, you don't want to dig up the 1357 01:08:55.720 --> 01:08:58.529 whole world, but you kind of do. It's not that old, 1358 01:08:58.569 --> 01:08:59.449 but this is a jade. 1359 01:09:00.069 --> 01:09:00.550 Sword. 1360 01:09:00.729 --> 01:09:03.979 Sorry, the handle's jade. The sword would have been probably metal. 1361 01:09:04.489 --> 01:09:08.300 That's why the metal's all fucked up, but the handle's not. 1362 01:09:09.039 --> 01:09:09.380 Wow. 1363 01:09:09.520 --> 01:09:12.520 So anything with cool rocks or crystals or diamonds. 1364 01:09:12.560 --> 01:09:15.899 Right, because the handle is kind of all that's left. 1365 01:09:16.119 --> 01:09:18.529 The sword is... A rotten piece of shit. 1366 01:09:18.550 --> 01:09:19.569 There's a few other old. 1367 01:09:19.729 --> 01:09:20.569 Let's. 1368 01:09:21.789 --> 01:09:22.010 See. 1369 01:09:22.369 --> 01:09:26.130 Yeah, that's the ones, these disks are really weird. 1370 01:09:26.130 --> 01:09:31.640 3000 B.C. to 2000 B.C. But they have, I was 1371 01:09:31.659 --> 01:09:34.720 just doing the research. Up until the Ming Dynasty, I 1372 01:09:34.739 --> 01:09:37.380 think it was like 1660, they have a book someone 1373 01:09:37.420 --> 01:09:39.779 wrote about how they were doing this. 1374 01:09:39.880 --> 01:09:42.199 But that's in 1600. 1600. 1375 01:09:42.199 --> 01:09:42.760 What did they do? 1376 01:09:42.779 --> 01:09:44.619 I mean, various things. 1377 01:09:45.149 --> 01:09:47.699 In 1600. Yeah. But some of these are 3,000 years 1378 01:09:47.810 --> 01:09:49.569 older than that, which is weird. 1379 01:09:51.449 --> 01:09:52.369 Jade artifacts. 1380 01:09:52.750 --> 01:09:57.409 Wow. This is the cooler shit, though. Nephrite. 1381 01:09:58.630 --> 01:09:58.890 Ooh. 1382 01:10:00.029 --> 01:10:02.930 But the description on how they did this, I'm almost not... 1383 01:10:02.890 --> 01:10:05.750 I have to take it as they say it, but 1384 01:10:05.789 --> 01:10:07.250 the description on how they did it was like they 1385 01:10:07.270 --> 01:10:11.390 would put abrasives on string and. 1386 01:10:12.640 --> 01:10:15.000 slowly wear away the jade. 1387 01:10:15.319 --> 01:10:19.119 How did they do these three-dimensional little carvings yeah it 1388 01:10:19.159 --> 01:10:21.880 says like they would put they'd get this slurry of 1389 01:10:22.140 --> 01:10:24.930 water and that kind of makes sense that one that 1390 01:10:24.939 --> 01:10:25.710 you just showed. 1391 01:10:25.510 --> 01:10:26.890 How old is that one i don't i don't even 1392 01:10:26.899 --> 01:10:31.090 know what it is that's fucking weird it says how 1393 01:10:31.109 --> 01:10:34.729 did ancient chinese carve what's the word that's the question 1394 01:10:34.770 --> 01:10:37.689 i asked without metal tools this is the link i 1395 01:10:37.729 --> 01:10:38.810 think what is that image. 1396 01:10:40.550 --> 01:10:46.569 That's crazy, man. What's that from? Where's that from? 1397 01:10:46.630 --> 01:10:47.090 Carving. 1398 01:10:47.409 --> 01:10:52.619 What year is that? Oh, that's a modern master. Okay. 1399 01:10:52.699 --> 01:10:54.939 That makes sense. That makes sense. Because I was like, 1400 01:10:55.079 --> 01:10:57.800 how could you do that? That's like the flower petals 1401 01:10:57.840 --> 01:11:00.579 and everything like that. That seems like you need metal tools. Oh, 1402 01:11:00.600 --> 01:11:02.399 so this is just an article on the evolution of 1403 01:11:02.439 --> 01:11:03.470 Chinese jade carving. 1404 01:11:03.489 --> 01:11:04.130 Yeah. 1405 01:11:04.210 --> 01:11:04.609 Okay. 1406 01:11:04.630 --> 01:11:05.630 So this is a modern. 1407 01:11:05.810 --> 01:11:07.050 Okay. That's why it's confusing. 1408 01:11:07.069 --> 01:11:16.479 That's older. That's older. A griffin. Obviously older. Some of 1409 01:11:16.500 --> 01:11:17.039 these are drilled. 1410 01:11:17.060 --> 01:11:19.699 Like these little holes, if you look and zoom in 1411 01:11:19.720 --> 01:11:21.520 real close, you can see evidence of drills. 1412 01:11:21.850 --> 01:11:24.710 But that's not, you know. You could have hand drills. 1413 01:11:24.729 --> 01:11:25.369 Okay. 1414 01:11:25.770 --> 01:11:28.710 Yeah. I mean, you could have harder stone that you've 1415 01:11:28.949 --> 01:11:32.210 figured out how to work into a position. You could 1416 01:11:32.229 --> 01:11:34.329 have sand. And there's a bunch of things they could use. 1417 01:11:35.590 --> 01:11:36.090 Pretty wild. 1418 01:11:36.130 --> 01:11:38.489 Something like this. I mean, it's very crude. 1419 01:11:38.710 --> 01:11:38.890 Mm-hmm. 1420 01:11:39.609 --> 01:11:42.060 Yeah, I mean all that is like you could attribute 1421 01:11:42.100 --> 01:11:46.979 that to ingenuity and craftsmen with years of learning how 1422 01:11:47.000 --> 01:11:49.319 to work these different things. It's when you get to 1423 01:11:49.399 --> 01:11:52.739 large stuff that you're like, okay, how did you get 1424 01:11:52.779 --> 01:11:58.079 these stones from Aswan? How did you get a 50-ton 1425 01:11:58.319 --> 01:12:01.520 block of granite and move it through the mountains with 1426 01:12:01.560 --> 01:12:06.630 no roads? Help me out. I just get hundreds of them, 1427 01:12:06.710 --> 01:12:09.789 thousands of them, millions of them. How'd you do it? 1428 01:12:10.850 --> 01:12:15.289 It's too wild. Yeah, it is very wild. And like 1429 01:12:16.430 --> 01:12:19.109 some of these things, I'll send you the Cassie Coppersmith 1430 01:12:19.149 --> 01:12:21.130 episode that I did with her because some of the 1431 01:12:21.170 --> 01:12:23.890 stuff is like, it's very confusing because the timeline is 1432 01:12:23.930 --> 01:12:26.149 pretty clear that this is older stuff and the older 1433 01:12:26.189 --> 01:12:29.569 stuff is more complex, more difficult to create and seems 1434 01:12:29.760 --> 01:12:32.819 to indicate the use of machinery. You know, one of 1435 01:12:32.840 --> 01:12:37.600 the things she pointed out was this statue of a 1436 01:12:37.649 --> 01:12:42.460 Buddha is that in India where the guy achieved enlightenment 1437 01:12:42.520 --> 01:12:47.220 by standing still and it's how tall was it is 1438 01:12:47.340 --> 01:12:53.670 it 90 feet tall the largest individual standing statue thousands 1439 01:12:53.689 --> 01:12:58.310 of years old looks like it's machined like really weird 1440 01:12:58.689 --> 01:13:02.670 like really weird statue there's so much weird stuff and 1441 01:13:02.710 --> 01:13:05.409 how did they get it there Did you guys, did 1442 01:13:05.430 --> 01:13:08.890 you move it there? Or was it a stone that 1443 01:13:08.909 --> 01:13:11.189 you said, hmm, wouldn't it be dope if we just, yeah, 1444 01:13:11.220 --> 01:13:14.739 look at that fucker with a big giant hog. But, 1445 01:13:14.779 --> 01:13:17.560 I mean, it's really detailed. It's like, see if you 1446 01:13:17.579 --> 01:13:21.960 can find a good image of it, young Jimmy. There's some. 1447 01:13:22.399 --> 01:13:23.689 Her photo is still on my computer. 1448 01:13:24.189 --> 01:13:27.930 Yeah. It's really wild. And she said you see it 1449 01:13:28.010 --> 01:13:31.729 from a long way away. Somebody put their watermark right 1450 01:13:31.770 --> 01:13:34.869 over his dong. How rude. They knew you were going 1451 01:13:34.890 --> 01:13:35.609 to be looking right there. 1452 01:13:36.380 --> 01:13:36.689 Me? 1453 01:13:37.180 --> 01:13:41.760 No, everybody. Humans. There's also like the Kaliasa. 1454 01:13:41.279 --> 01:13:45.399 Temple, I think the one where they carve right down somehow, 1455 01:13:46.260 --> 01:13:47.380 hammer and chisel apparently. 1456 01:13:47.399 --> 01:13:47.960 Yeah. 1457 01:13:49.039 --> 01:13:50.699 Who knows? It's an incredible sophistication. 1458 01:13:50.729 --> 01:13:53.050 That's the one where an army went to try to 1459 01:13:53.229 --> 01:13:56.069 destroy it and they tried for years and they gave up. 1460 01:13:56.529 --> 01:13:56.750 Really? 1461 01:13:56.930 --> 01:13:57.069 Yeah. 1462 01:13:57.130 --> 01:13:57.590 I didn't know that. 1463 01:13:57.609 --> 01:14:00.029 They barely put a fucking dent in it. They scratched 1464 01:14:00.069 --> 01:14:02.109 a few things up, but they worked on it for 1465 01:14:02.149 --> 01:14:04.810 years to try to destroy it. Why? Because some new 1466 01:14:04.869 --> 01:14:06.970 guy came along and said, fuck these people in the temple. 1467 01:14:06.989 --> 01:14:09.390 Yeah, this isn't my, like, religion. This doesn't suit my story. 1468 01:14:09.430 --> 01:14:11.090 Like what the Taliban did to those ancient Buddhists. 1469 01:14:11.109 --> 01:14:11.869 Yeah, they blew them up. 1470 01:14:11.930 --> 01:14:12.189 Yeah. 1471 01:14:12.210 --> 01:14:15.350 I mean, there's over a thousand years old and they're like, no. 1472 01:14:15.390 --> 01:14:16.409 An ISIS to Palmyra. 1473 01:14:16.630 --> 01:14:16.869 Yeah. 1474 01:14:17.329 --> 01:14:20.270 Sad, man. I know. It's really sad. And if that's 1475 01:14:20.329 --> 01:14:23.390 human inclination to do that kind of stuff, like, how 1476 01:14:23.430 --> 01:14:28.600 long have we been doing that? Well, yeah. Probably always. Yeah. 1477 01:14:29.020 --> 01:14:31.399 How much stuff is not around anymore because some asshole 1478 01:14:31.420 --> 01:14:33.319 came along and wanted it removed? 1479 01:14:33.539 --> 01:14:34.960 Yeah, because it doesn't suit your narrative. 1480 01:14:35.239 --> 01:14:35.619 Exactly. 1481 01:14:35.640 --> 01:14:38.260 Because everyone's always building a story. Humans have always done that, 1482 01:14:38.300 --> 01:14:42.260 built a story around to legitimize power and rule. And 1483 01:14:42.420 --> 01:14:45.430 if it doesn't suit your story, you destroy it. And then, yeah. 1484 01:14:45.600 --> 01:14:46.170 Exactly. 1485 01:14:46.350 --> 01:14:47.430 Would I be able to have some of that coffee? 1486 01:14:47.449 --> 01:14:50.449 Hell yeah, dog. Get on in there. Thank you. 1487 01:14:50.470 --> 01:14:52.250 I've got to wake myself up. 1488 01:14:53.689 --> 01:14:56.590 Yeah, you're jet lagged. Trip across the pond. 1489 01:14:56.909 --> 01:14:57.729 Yes, exactly. 1490 01:14:58.270 --> 01:15:00.909 Here he is. This is what it looks like. Isn't 1491 01:15:00.949 --> 01:15:01.520 that wild, dude? 1492 01:15:02.439 --> 01:15:03.000 That's incredible. 1493 01:15:03.300 --> 01:15:03.640 Yeah. 1494 01:15:03.760 --> 01:15:06.760 What's the, um, date on this, the conventional date? Do 1495 01:15:06.779 --> 01:15:07.000 we know? 1496 01:15:08.510 --> 01:15:11.329 That's a good question. They're going to have to carbon 1497 01:15:11.350 --> 01:15:14.689 date his dong. We don't know, but I'm sure it's known. Uh, 1498 01:15:14.770 --> 01:15:17.229 there's a guess, right? Like what is the guess of 1499 01:15:17.289 --> 01:15:22.609 the timeline? Whatever it is, it's very perplexing. It's a 1500 01:15:22.609 --> 01:15:30.550 57 feet tall monolithic statue of Lord Bahubali, uh, Okay, 1501 01:15:30.630 --> 01:15:38.329 so 983 CE. That's what they believe. That's AD, yeah. Yeah, AD, 1502 01:15:38.689 --> 01:15:44.569 current era. Regard as the tallest Jain statue until 2016. 1503 01:15:44.569 --> 01:15:49.979 Construction of the statue was commissioned by the Ganga dynasty minister. Okay, 1504 01:15:50.000 --> 01:15:52.560 so how? How did you make that? Where did you 1505 01:15:52.600 --> 01:15:55.600 get it? How did you get it there? You did that, what? 1506 01:15:56.180 --> 01:15:59.409 You did that over a thousand years ago? And how 1507 01:15:59.430 --> 01:16:05.670 do we know that that's the timeline? I mean, it's weird. 1508 01:16:06.350 --> 01:16:09.520 It's weird because it looks machined. When you look at it, 1509 01:16:10.029 --> 01:16:13.270 go back to some of the images, please. When you 1510 01:16:13.310 --> 01:16:17.020 look at the detail of the fingers and the toes 1511 01:16:17.140 --> 01:16:21.060 and the uniformity of the face, it's fucking weird, man. 1512 01:16:23.140 --> 01:16:26.880 It's like these people had a lot of fucking resources. 1513 01:16:27.039 --> 01:16:29.729 Look at the size of that dude standing next to it. Like, 1514 01:16:29.850 --> 01:16:32.550 for real, how do you get that? If that's not 1515 01:16:32.590 --> 01:16:36.909 a big, giant, contiguous block that was sitting there, what 1516 01:16:36.949 --> 01:16:37.529 is it made out of? 1517 01:16:38.189 --> 01:16:38.810 Granite, I think. 1518 01:16:39.390 --> 01:16:42.260 So that's not just a giant, perfect slab of granite 1519 01:16:42.270 --> 01:16:44.600 that happens to be roughly in the shape of a guy. 1520 01:16:44.920 --> 01:16:47.180 And you're like, wouldn't that be dope if we made 1521 01:16:47.260 --> 01:16:49.560 a dude out of that with a giant dong and 1522 01:16:49.600 --> 01:16:52.520 just had him just staring over our kingdom? 1523 01:16:53.399 --> 01:16:56.180 But we don't do that anymore. That's what's weird. No 1524 01:16:56.220 --> 01:16:57.439 one's building things like this anymore. 1525 01:16:57.819 --> 01:16:58.859 Certainly not out of stone. 1526 01:16:59.159 --> 01:16:59.300 No. 1527 01:16:59.640 --> 01:17:01.819 Yeah, because we like to make money and it takes 1528 01:17:01.859 --> 01:17:04.960 too much time to do a fucking pyramid when you 1529 01:17:04.979 --> 01:17:06.939 can make a nice skyscraper in just a couple of 1530 01:17:06.979 --> 01:17:08.619 years and put a big Trump on the roof. 1531 01:17:08.979 --> 01:17:12.229 Yeah. 1532 01:17:12.319 --> 01:17:17.810 No surviving technical manual records records rather the exact construction procedure. 1533 01:17:17.989 --> 01:17:22.430 Archaeological and art historical understanding is that the artisans shaped 1534 01:17:22.470 --> 01:17:26.399 the statue in situ, removing stone around the intended figure. 1535 01:17:26.939 --> 01:17:29.909 roughing out the body, then refining the face, limbs, hair, 1536 01:17:30.289 --> 01:17:32.949 and distinctive vines, climbing the legs. Imagine if you fucked 1537 01:17:32.989 --> 01:17:38.869 that up. This approach avoided the near impossible task of quarrying, transporting, 1538 01:17:38.930 --> 01:17:43.789 and raising a 17 meter finished sculpture onto a hill. Yeah. 1539 01:17:43.970 --> 01:17:46.149 So if they moved it, if there was definitive proof 1540 01:17:46.189 --> 01:17:49.039 that it was moved there, then there's another monkey wrench 1541 01:17:49.119 --> 01:17:51.199 gets thrown into the whole thing. And then you have 1542 01:17:51.220 --> 01:17:54.579 to go, okay, how? But it does make much more 1543 01:17:54.619 --> 01:17:56.720 sense if you just carved it out. But also like, 1544 01:17:57.359 --> 01:18:00.189 How long would that take? What kind of tools are 1545 01:18:00.229 --> 01:18:03.189 we talking about? What kind of shitty-ass tools do people 1546 01:18:03.229 --> 01:18:05.670 have at 900 CE? 1547 01:18:06.550 --> 01:18:08.979 Well, then here's the rest of the stuff they did 1548 01:18:09.020 --> 01:18:09.479 in India. 1549 01:18:09.779 --> 01:18:12.159 They did weird stuff in India where they just carved 1550 01:18:12.199 --> 01:18:14.939 stuff right out of the stone. Like what? What was 1551 01:18:14.979 --> 01:18:18.529 the motivation to build these temples, just carve them right 1552 01:18:18.569 --> 01:18:19.970 out of volcanic stone? 1553 01:18:20.939 --> 01:18:21.500 It's insane. 1554 01:18:21.819 --> 01:18:22.460 Crazy. 1555 01:18:22.539 --> 01:18:23.579 So detailed as well. 1556 01:18:24.140 --> 01:18:28.199 Insanely detailed. And also, some of the sculptures are three-dimensional. Like, 1557 01:18:28.239 --> 01:18:30.439 how did you get behind them and carve that out? 1558 01:18:30.510 --> 01:18:32.609 And how did you make all these, like, weird things? 1559 01:18:32.649 --> 01:18:34.090 Have you ever seen some of them where they go 1560 01:18:34.149 --> 01:18:36.550 over it with a light and you can see how 1561 01:18:36.569 --> 01:18:39.590 three-dimensional it is? Yeah, and the Barabar Caves. 1562 01:18:39.609 --> 01:18:41.649 Do you know about them? Also in India, where there's, like, 1563 01:18:41.689 --> 01:18:45.390 completely mirror-polished surfaces. And yet the conventional explanation for that 1564 01:18:45.409 --> 01:18:47.109 is that they were just shelters. 1565 01:18:47.489 --> 01:18:47.729 Right. 1566 01:18:47.770 --> 01:18:49.970 But why are they so precise? They're, like, completely precise. 1567 01:18:50.319 --> 01:18:52.779 And they've got this weird mirror polishing yeah you don't 1568 01:18:52.800 --> 01:18:54.399 need that if you're just building a shelter and how 1569 01:18:54.439 --> 01:18:56.300 about those pillars that look like they were cut on 1570 01:18:56.359 --> 01:19:02.130 lathes yeah like what how did you what's. 1571 01:19:01.989 --> 01:19:05.890 Going on guys I know what did you we're missing 1572 01:19:05.949 --> 01:19:09.789 so much We're missing so many details about the past. 1573 01:19:10.289 --> 01:19:12.729 It's so frustrating if you're really interested in it because 1574 01:19:12.750 --> 01:19:16.369 it's like how much do we know versus how much 1575 01:19:16.409 --> 01:19:18.590 are we just assuming? Well, that's the thing. 1576 01:19:18.609 --> 01:19:20.909 We're assuming so much. And that's why it bugs me 1577 01:19:20.939 --> 01:19:24.439 when it's presented as fact or presented as we have 1578 01:19:24.520 --> 01:19:25.859 all the answers because we clearly don't. 1579 01:19:26.220 --> 01:19:29.439 Yeah. What are the other papers that have come out 1580 01:19:29.500 --> 01:19:30.199 that have been. 1581 01:19:30.039 --> 01:19:32.979 So there was the paper about the one million-year-old skull, 1582 01:19:33.279 --> 01:19:37.859 human skull that was found in China last year. And 1583 01:19:37.899 --> 01:19:40.119 this is super interesting because this is a human with 1584 01:19:40.140 --> 01:19:43.399 a modern size brain, but that was found a million 1585 01:19:43.420 --> 01:19:46.460 years ago. And so again, that has implications for what 1586 01:19:46.500 --> 01:19:47.880 was really going on a million years ago. And if 1587 01:19:47.920 --> 01:19:50.640 you link that to the, what I would argue is 1588 01:19:50.699 --> 01:19:54.359 modern behavior with the seafaring in Southeast Asia, then you 1589 01:19:54.399 --> 01:19:57.479 have a million year old skull found in China in 1590 01:19:57.859 --> 01:20:02.779 Northeast Asia. You know, you put those two things together 1591 01:20:02.859 --> 01:20:06.170 and you suddenly got human beings with Modern brains doing 1592 01:20:06.210 --> 01:20:08.970 modern things a million years ago. And I think it's fascinating. So, 1593 01:20:09.710 --> 01:20:13.210 I mean, the paper came out, I think, in October 1594 01:20:13.229 --> 01:20:16.180 last year. And what they did was they took these 1595 01:20:16.640 --> 01:20:20.119 fossils from a place called Yongshan in China. And they 1596 01:20:20.140 --> 01:20:22.279 were discovered actually in the 1990s. I think it was 1597 01:20:22.279 --> 01:20:26.600 1989 and 1990. There's two skulls, Yongshan one and Yongshan two. 1598 01:20:27.529 --> 01:20:29.460 But they were badly deformed. Yeah, there you go, Jamie, 1599 01:20:29.500 --> 01:20:32.920 right on cue. Badly, badly deformed. And they were always 1600 01:20:33.039 --> 01:20:36.699 thought to be Homo erectus because of where they were found, China, 1601 01:20:36.739 --> 01:20:38.699 and how old they were, over a million years old, 1602 01:20:39.119 --> 01:20:40.680 because that was the only type of human that should 1603 01:20:40.699 --> 01:20:43.350 have been in China or in that area at that time, 1604 01:20:43.399 --> 01:20:47.010 at that age. They were always assumed to be Homo erectus, 1605 01:20:47.050 --> 01:20:50.829 but a few researchers from a university in China, along 1606 01:20:50.869 --> 01:20:54.350 with the Natural History Museum in London, a professor named 1607 01:20:54.369 --> 01:20:58.850 Professor Chris Stringer, They applied modern reconstruction techniques to Yungxiang II, 1608 01:20:58.909 --> 01:21:02.649 the second skull. And so they used something called CT 1609 01:21:02.689 --> 01:21:05.270 scanning to reconstruct it. And what they discovered was that 1610 01:21:05.590 --> 01:21:09.170 they think it's actually a Homo longi skull, which is 1611 01:21:09.210 --> 01:21:12.710 this part of the same clad as Denisovan, Denisovan. And 1612 01:21:12.729 --> 01:21:15.270 why that's important is that Denisovan is kind of like 1613 01:21:15.310 --> 01:21:15.600 a cyst. 1614 01:21:15.619 --> 01:21:17.680 How do you say it? Do you say Denisovan or Denisovan? 1615 01:21:17.800 --> 01:21:21.340 I don't know. I say Denisovan, but I keep hearing Denisovan. 1616 01:21:21.439 --> 01:21:22.819 I'm trying to change it. Yeah. 1617 01:21:23.079 --> 01:21:24.000 What would the scientists say? 1618 01:21:25.069 --> 01:21:25.609 Denisovan. 1619 01:21:25.869 --> 01:21:29.250 But the cave is Denisovan cave. So it should be Denisovan, 1620 01:21:29.270 --> 01:21:29.649 you would think. 1621 01:21:29.670 --> 01:21:30.350 Fuck the scientists. 1622 01:21:30.489 --> 01:21:34.189 It doesn't matter. Denisovan, Denisovan, whatever. Either way, these scientists 1623 01:21:34.229 --> 01:21:36.890 think this skull is Homo longi, which is a cloud 1624 01:21:36.909 --> 01:21:40.300 of Denisovan, which is crucially a sister species to Neanderthal 1625 01:21:40.409 --> 01:21:43.539 and us, sapiens. Which means that if this skull is 1626 01:21:43.779 --> 01:21:46.000 a million years old, and if it is Homo longi, 1627 01:21:46.380 --> 01:21:49.439 that means that the divergence of our species must have 1628 01:21:49.460 --> 01:21:54.180 happened before then. So when humans split into Neanderthal, Denisovan, 1629 01:21:54.220 --> 01:21:57.939 and Homo sapien, if this human was already walking around 1630 01:21:57.939 --> 01:22:01.239 1 million years ago, that means that whatever became us 1631 01:22:01.619 --> 01:22:03.680 had already diverged at that point. So we were already 1632 01:22:03.720 --> 01:22:07.899 a distinct species, Homo sapiens, 1 million years ago, which 1633 01:22:07.960 --> 01:22:10.340 is a staggeringly long amount of time and so much 1634 01:22:10.699 --> 01:22:12.100 older than what we thought before. We used to think 1635 01:22:12.119 --> 01:22:16.020 this was around 500,000 years ago. So it's like a 400,000 1636 01:22:16.020 --> 01:22:18.039 or more than that jump from what we thought before. 1637 01:22:18.539 --> 01:22:21.760 Have you heard the theory about Neanderthals that they believe 1638 01:22:21.800 --> 01:22:25.890 that Neanderthals were not just a separate group of human 1639 01:22:25.989 --> 01:22:30.760 but were actually created by humans interbreeding with other ancient primates. 1640 01:22:32.380 --> 01:22:32.850 How do you mean? 1641 01:22:33.439 --> 01:22:39.739 So instead of Neanderthals existing previously, that Homo sapiens predate 1642 01:22:39.800 --> 01:22:45.859 Neanderthals and that Homo sapiens breeding with some other ancient primate, 1643 01:22:46.359 --> 01:22:50.319 some other one of these, created Neanderthals. Maybe. 1644 01:22:50.340 --> 01:22:51.199 I haven't heard that. 1645 01:22:51.260 --> 01:22:53.619 I don't know. Yeah. I don't know if it's right. 1646 01:22:54.289 --> 01:22:57.010 I read it and I was like, what? I was like, okay, 1647 01:22:57.050 --> 01:23:01.770 this is a crazy theory. And it's– because the thought 1648 01:23:01.829 --> 01:23:05.600 is that Neanderthals were bred out with– that there was 1649 01:23:05.640 --> 01:23:10.720 interbreeding between humans and Neanderthals. But that might have actually 1650 01:23:10.760 --> 01:23:14.380 like predated Neanderthals themselves. Like it might be the cause 1651 01:23:14.439 --> 01:23:18.779 of Neanderthals is that humans, Homo sapiens bred with something else. 1652 01:23:19.560 --> 01:23:23.149 Well, we definitely bred with Neanderthals. and probably Denisovans and 1653 01:23:23.689 --> 01:23:26.689 Neanderthals and Denisovans bred together as well. We're all so similar. 1654 01:23:26.729 --> 01:23:29.109 The fact that we can have kids together is incredible. 1655 01:23:29.130 --> 01:23:32.760 And they actually recently found evidence of humans and as 1656 01:23:32.810 --> 01:23:35.899 in sapiens and Neanderthals actually coexisting for a long, long 1657 01:23:35.939 --> 01:23:37.760 time in the same place and like living in the 1658 01:23:37.800 --> 01:23:40.239 same place. And because you could always argue before that 1659 01:23:40.680 --> 01:23:44.239 perhaps it was, you know, non-consensual breeding between like a 1660 01:23:44.260 --> 01:23:46.640 Neanderthal male, a sapien woman. But now we have evidence 1661 01:23:46.659 --> 01:23:49.500 that we did live like alongside each other cooperatively. I 1662 01:23:49.560 --> 01:23:52.229 can't remember where the site is, but. that was found 1663 01:23:52.310 --> 01:23:55.590 recently so yeah that's interesting as well because see. 1664 01:23:55.430 --> 01:23:58.350 If you can find any whatever the hell i found 1665 01:23:58.689 --> 01:24:03.170 about um neanderthals possibly a result of humans breeding with 1666 01:24:03.210 --> 01:24:04.329 other primates. 1667 01:24:04.430 --> 01:24:06.210 With other primates so is it not even i mean. 1668 01:24:06.090 --> 01:24:10.689 Not other other humans we're not created by modern humans 1669 01:24:10.890 --> 01:24:14.750 they're closely related extinct branch of the human family this 1670 01:24:14.810 --> 01:24:17.189 is a very recent proposal. 1671 01:24:17.359 --> 01:24:19.039 I might have asked the question too in a different way. 1672 01:24:19.199 --> 01:24:19.890 How did you ask it? 1673 01:24:19.920 --> 01:24:22.699 I said Neanderthals are created by humans, which isn't. 1674 01:24:22.619 --> 01:24:30.359 Really what you said. No. See if you search, is there, 1675 01:24:31.239 --> 01:24:39.050 put this in. Is there a theory that Neanderthals were 1676 01:24:39.199 --> 01:24:46.729 a result of human, maybe you see Homo sapiens? Homo sapiens. 1677 01:24:47.750 --> 01:25:00.449 Homo sapiens breeding with other primates. I guess you wouldn't 1678 01:25:00.489 --> 01:25:06.090 say primates, though, because that's a monkey. Other... Homos? Other homos. 1679 01:25:08.029 --> 01:25:13.119 Other ancient humans. Write that, ancient humans. Ancient human species. 1680 01:25:15.340 --> 01:25:19.039 Let's see what perplexity has to say about this. I 1681 01:25:19.060 --> 01:25:25.399 wish I'd saved that because it was really interesting. It 1682 01:25:25.420 --> 01:25:29.899 says no, not as the main scientific explanation. That's that 1683 01:25:29.920 --> 01:25:33.659 I don't mean the main scientific explanation. I'm saying, is 1684 01:25:33.739 --> 01:25:36.859 there a theory? I want to know if there's a theory. 1685 01:25:38.550 --> 01:25:40.149 Uh, well then that has to now, I mean, that's 1686 01:25:40.210 --> 01:25:42.250 about how we're using this actual thing is I'm using 1687 01:25:42.270 --> 01:25:43.229 it in a general way. 1688 01:25:43.350 --> 01:25:47.699 Right. But not as the main scientific explanation. Absolutely. But 1689 01:25:48.000 --> 01:25:52.079 is there a theory? Has anyone, has anyone theorized that 1690 01:25:52.100 --> 01:26:00.810 this is possible? Ask that. Theorized that this is possible. 1691 01:26:02.229 --> 01:26:03.210 It's going to have to crawl. 1692 01:26:03.270 --> 01:26:05.600 If it's new, it has to crawl the websites to 1693 01:26:05.699 --> 01:26:07.420 find that information. 1694 01:26:07.520 --> 01:26:08.840 I want it to crawl. I know. 1695 01:26:08.859 --> 01:26:09.659 We can't make it crawl. 1696 01:26:09.960 --> 01:26:10.539 Crawl, bitch. 1697 01:26:12.439 --> 01:26:13.520 They're going to take over, man. 1698 01:26:13.979 --> 01:26:19.050 Yes. Here it goes. Researchers have proposed hybridization-based ideas, but 1699 01:26:19.109 --> 01:26:22.189 generally not the exact claim that Neanderthals originally formed from 1700 01:26:22.250 --> 01:26:26.069 Homo sapiens plus another species. What has been proposed? Paralytologists 1701 01:26:26.149 --> 01:26:29.069 propose that particularly late Neanderthal or early modern human fossils 1702 01:26:29.090 --> 01:26:33.460 are might be Neanderthal-Homo sapien hybrids or descendants of populations 1703 01:26:33.840 --> 01:26:36.510 that mix repeatedly. No, this is not quite what I'm saying. 1704 01:26:36.529 --> 01:26:39.770 This is what's fucked up when you watch too many 1705 01:26:39.829 --> 01:26:41.630 videos and you read too many articles and you don't 1706 01:26:41.670 --> 01:26:44.529 save them. This was quite a few months ago too. 1707 01:26:48.850 --> 01:26:54.380 The Denisovan thing is weird because there's recent proposals. I 1708 01:26:54.399 --> 01:26:56.630 think this is a paper I sent in. I sent 1709 01:26:56.649 --> 01:27:00.449 you a podcast where they're discussing this paper that as 1710 01:27:00.510 --> 01:27:05.289 of August, like this month, there's some speculation about the 1711 01:27:05.350 --> 01:27:08.470 height of the Denisovans and that they think they might 1712 01:27:08.489 --> 01:27:11.010 have been much larger than Homo sapiens at the time. 1713 01:27:11.170 --> 01:27:12.970 Yeah, they found a bone. They found a bone, a 1714 01:27:13.010 --> 01:27:15.199 thigh bone, I think, under the sea and suggest the 1715 01:27:15.199 --> 01:27:19.890 … Denisovans. And everything we found about Denisovans is that 1716 01:27:19.930 --> 01:27:22.310 they were bigger than us. So the teeth we found, 1717 01:27:22.329 --> 01:27:24.609 we haven't got much from them, but the tooth is bigger. 1718 01:27:24.989 --> 01:27:27.770 The jawbone is bigger. The dragon man skull, which has 1719 01:27:28.210 --> 01:27:31.470 been classified as very similar to Denisovan, is bigger. And 1720 01:27:31.489 --> 01:27:33.850 then they found this thigh bone that suggests that they 1721 01:27:33.890 --> 01:27:37.010 were considerably over six foot tall. Now, obviously that's not 1722 01:27:37.050 --> 01:27:40.649 like a massive giant, but compared to, you know, the 1723 01:27:40.710 --> 01:27:43.489 average height of a human today is something like A 1724 01:27:43.510 --> 01:27:46.390 male human is something like 5'8 or 5'9. And so 1725 01:27:46.750 --> 01:27:49.199 a Denisovan being over six foot is like quite a 1726 01:27:49.199 --> 01:27:51.699 considerable jump from that. So it's not like a mythical giant, 1727 01:27:51.739 --> 01:27:55.100 but it's still bigger than you'd expect an ancient human 1728 01:27:55.119 --> 01:27:55.380 to be. 1729 01:27:55.720 --> 01:27:58.500 And it's also we're going with a limited amount of fossils. 1730 01:27:58.699 --> 01:27:59.760 So limited. So limited. 1731 01:27:59.880 --> 01:28:05.270 So just from what we know, they existed with larger skulls. 1732 01:28:07.649 --> 01:28:11.050 recent genetic research confirms that modern humans, Homo sapiens, and 1733 01:28:11.069 --> 01:28:14.909 Neanderthals repeatedly interbred a course of period spanning roughly 200,000 1734 01:28:14.909 --> 01:28:18.829 to 250,000 years ago. While it's long believed that interbreeding 1735 01:28:18.890 --> 01:28:22.659 occurred during a brief window of about 50 to 60,000 1736 01:28:22.659 --> 01:28:27.500 years ago, advanced genomic mapping shows multiple waves of contact 1737 01:28:28.359 --> 01:28:33.239 occurred much earlier. 200,000 to 250,000 years ago, an early 1738 01:28:33.279 --> 01:28:37.000 wave of Homo sapiens migrating out of Africa encountered and 1739 01:28:37.060 --> 01:28:40.569 mated with Neanderthals in Eurasia. So what this guy was 1740 01:28:40.640 --> 01:28:44.920 saying was that it might not have been that, but 1741 01:28:45.039 --> 01:28:50.560 that even earlier than this, Neanderthals were a result of 1742 01:28:50.800 --> 01:28:57.180 human beings interbreeding with others. Or Homo sapiens interbreeding with others. 1743 01:28:57.199 --> 01:29:04.600 I don't know. Thank you, though. what were we just at? Oh, Denisovans. 1744 01:29:04.949 --> 01:29:08.760 So just that one alone was way bigger than most 1745 01:29:08.800 --> 01:29:11.560 humans at the time. And just given the size of 1746 01:29:11.579 --> 01:29:13.920 the head, the bones are bigger. It's a bigger brow. 1747 01:29:14.600 --> 01:29:18.279 It seems like a more robust, larger version of a human. 1748 01:29:18.810 --> 01:29:21.869 And then when you take into account the range and 1749 01:29:22.010 --> 01:29:26.630 size of human beings, given the correct amount of resources 1750 01:29:26.689 --> 01:29:30.710 and food and protein, we got seven foot plus humans 1751 01:29:31.090 --> 01:29:35.060 that are all over the place today. And imagine if 1752 01:29:35.260 --> 01:29:38.479 these Denisovan skulls, which seem to be like a completely 1753 01:29:38.520 --> 01:29:42.359 different structure than a Homo sapiens, we might, they might 1754 01:29:42.420 --> 01:29:45.020 be the giants of the Bible is the point. Like 1755 01:29:45.039 --> 01:29:46.800 this might be what they were talking about. Like there 1756 01:29:46.840 --> 01:29:49.399 might've been a race of much larger people that were 1757 01:29:49.420 --> 01:29:51.300 physically dominant over Homo sapiens. 1758 01:29:51.949 --> 01:29:54.039 They could have been they could have been considerably bigger. 1759 01:29:54.119 --> 01:29:56.180 They don't even need to be that big for the 1760 01:29:56.239 --> 01:29:58.880 myths to kind of perpetuate. I mean, like just someone 1761 01:29:58.899 --> 01:30:00.899 to be a little bit bigger and you encounter a 1762 01:30:00.920 --> 01:30:04.140 group of them and you're like a homo sapien community. 1763 01:30:04.159 --> 01:30:05.600 You're going to remember that. 1764 01:30:05.640 --> 01:30:09.010 Well, whenever I do the UFC weigh ins, I'm standing 1765 01:30:09.050 --> 01:30:15.189 next to massive fucking, you know, these huge heavyweights like 1766 01:30:15.250 --> 01:30:17.949 some of these guys are just gigantic humans, you know. 1767 01:30:18.600 --> 01:30:21.859 Six foot seven, six foot nine, 265 pounds and they 1768 01:30:21.880 --> 01:30:24.779 have to cut weight to make 265. These are giant people. 1769 01:30:26.260 --> 01:30:31.569 And then you think this is whatever percentage of people 1770 01:30:31.590 --> 01:30:35.010 that are around today that are that big. If the Denisovans, 1771 01:30:35.350 --> 01:30:36.989 if we just have a limit, we might have caught 1772 01:30:37.029 --> 01:30:39.869 just a few small ones. I mean that's what we 1773 01:30:39.909 --> 01:30:42.710 don't know. I mean I wonder what the fuck would 1774 01:30:42.770 --> 01:30:46.109 happen if they found some bones that indicated there was 1775 01:30:46.149 --> 01:30:47.329 a man that was nine feet tall. 1776 01:30:47.979 --> 01:30:50.159 And we know that primates can get that big. And 1777 01:30:50.189 --> 01:30:51.930 obviously we're a primate. I can't remember what it's called, 1778 01:30:51.970 --> 01:30:52.869 but that's the one. 1779 01:30:52.890 --> 01:30:54.029 Gigantopithecus. Yeah. 1780 01:30:54.069 --> 01:30:56.670 Absolutely gigantic as per the name. 1781 01:30:56.850 --> 01:30:57.149 Yeah. 1782 01:30:57.409 --> 01:31:02.210 So they can, primates are kind of line of animals 1783 01:31:02.250 --> 01:31:03.229 can get really big. 1784 01:31:03.350 --> 01:31:07.770 And that along the same lines of like the timeline 1785 01:31:07.789 --> 01:31:10.689 of discovery of that is fascinating too. Because I think 1786 01:31:10.729 --> 01:31:13.289 it was in the 1920s, an archaeologist was in an 1787 01:31:13.529 --> 01:31:17.739 apothecary shop in China and he found molars. They were 1788 01:31:17.760 --> 01:31:19.479 from a primate that didn't make any sense. 1789 01:31:19.699 --> 01:31:20.380 They were really big. 1790 01:31:20.460 --> 01:31:23.970 Yeah, huge. He's like, where did you get this? And 1791 01:31:24.010 --> 01:31:26.149 he went there and then that's where they found jawbones 1792 01:31:26.210 --> 01:31:28.909 and things. So there's some– we used to think that 1793 01:31:28.930 --> 01:31:31.850 they were bipedal because I've read that before. But now 1794 01:31:31.890 --> 01:31:36.220 they're thinking that not necessarily and that they might have 1795 01:31:36.239 --> 01:31:38.739 been– because like a lot of people thought that's Bigfoot. 1796 01:31:39.439 --> 01:31:46.319 There's this myth that persists throughout Native American cultures, everywhere else. Yeah, 1797 01:31:46.380 --> 01:31:51.560 they think it might have been an enormous orangutan. Look 1798 01:31:51.600 --> 01:31:53.039 at that movie. What was it, The Jungle Book? 1799 01:31:53.100 --> 01:31:53.720 Jungle Book, yeah. 1800 01:31:53.739 --> 01:31:53.979 Yeah. 1801 01:31:56.079 --> 01:32:03.180 So a 10-foot-tall orangutan, like what? I mean, it just 1802 01:32:03.239 --> 01:32:06.760 makes sense. If there's the people– you brought up florists before. 1803 01:32:07.260 --> 01:32:09.939 Now we also know about those little hobbit people that 1804 01:32:09.970 --> 01:32:12.350 lived on the island of Flores that were these three-foot-tall 1805 01:32:12.430 --> 01:32:16.420 tiny little people. Mm-hmm. So the island dwarfism and then 1806 01:32:16.819 --> 01:32:20.840 there's– they're a totally different version of human beings, of 1807 01:32:20.880 --> 01:32:24.960 the human chain, the human tree. Who knows? Who knows 1808 01:32:25.000 --> 01:32:26.420 what these Denisovans look like? 1809 01:32:26.800 --> 01:32:29.319 And island gigantism is also a thing in nature. We 1810 01:32:29.340 --> 01:32:30.500 see that and we see island dwarfism. 1811 01:32:30.520 --> 01:32:33.210 With reptiles, right? So it could apply to primates and 1812 01:32:33.229 --> 01:32:36.310 to humans. Sure, as long as they had enough food. Yeah. 1813 01:32:36.810 --> 01:32:41.319 It's just the idea of a Denisovan. I mean, they 1814 01:32:41.600 --> 01:32:43.340 only discovered them in 2010, right? 1815 01:32:43.739 --> 01:32:46.119 Oh, yeah, Sony. And we have hardly anything about them. 1816 01:32:47.020 --> 01:32:49.039 How many are we missing? You know what I mean? 1817 01:32:49.060 --> 01:32:50.979 We literally have like a tooth, a jawbone, and this 1818 01:32:51.020 --> 01:32:52.539 thigh bone, and a few other things. 1819 01:32:52.590 --> 01:32:55.649 Right, and how many other versions of humans are we missing? 1820 01:32:55.770 --> 01:32:57.850 Yeah, there's ghost populations in our DNA. We know we're 1821 01:32:57.970 --> 01:33:00.470 missing humans. There are other types of humans that we 1822 01:33:00.489 --> 01:33:01.449 just have nothing for. 1823 01:33:01.710 --> 01:33:03.050 Yeah, that's weird. 1824 01:33:03.210 --> 01:33:03.770 That's so weird. 1825 01:33:03.869 --> 01:33:07.500 That show, Human, have you ever seen that show? It's on... God, 1826 01:33:07.539 --> 01:33:08.319 is it a BBC show? 1827 01:33:08.430 --> 01:33:09.750 Oh, yeah. No, I watched that. 1828 01:33:09.829 --> 01:33:12.250 Very interesting. It's good. But she was on a podcast 1829 01:33:12.310 --> 01:33:16.310 recently talking about this ghost DNA and how weird it 1830 01:33:16.430 --> 01:33:20.220 is that a few hundred thousand years ago something happened 1831 01:33:20.569 --> 01:33:23.439 and there's this DNA that's in there that's like, what 1832 01:33:23.500 --> 01:33:24.680 is this? What's this stuff? 1833 01:33:25.079 --> 01:33:28.439 Yeah, there's so many populations of humans that we think 1834 01:33:28.520 --> 01:33:30.699 existed because of our DNA, but we don't know who 1835 01:33:30.720 --> 01:33:33.199 they were. We've never found them. And they could be, 1836 01:33:33.850 --> 01:33:36.529 you know, Very close to us, but also with significant 1837 01:33:36.649 --> 01:33:38.729 differences and it's just, it's all up in the end. 1838 01:33:40.060 --> 01:33:43.500 Same with so much of prehistory. We just, we don't know. Yeah. 1839 01:33:44.319 --> 01:33:47.279 And I wonder like what kind of a society, what 1840 01:33:47.319 --> 01:33:51.750 kind of, if do, do they find stone tools? With Denisovans? 1841 01:33:52.050 --> 01:33:52.850 Do they know that yet? 1842 01:33:52.949 --> 01:33:55.649 It's really hard to attribute stone tools to anything because 1843 01:33:55.689 --> 01:33:57.270 if you just have the tools, you don't know what 1844 01:33:57.310 --> 01:33:59.579 human used them, what human made them. 1845 01:33:59.779 --> 01:34:00.079 Right. 1846 01:34:00.119 --> 01:34:02.220 Because you have to find like a skeleton and it's 1847 01:34:02.239 --> 01:34:04.340 so hard to find a skeleton next to the tools. 1848 01:34:04.380 --> 01:34:05.800 And even then you don't actually know if it was 1849 01:34:05.899 --> 01:34:06.960 that that made the tools. 1850 01:34:08.279 --> 01:34:12.279 We don't know. Yeah. What else has been fascinating for 1851 01:34:12.319 --> 01:34:13.380 you recently? 1852 01:34:15.340 --> 01:34:18.409 So I think. the question that i mentioned at the 1853 01:34:18.470 --> 01:34:21.489 start the one like when did humans reach isolated land 1854 01:34:21.510 --> 01:34:25.409 masses such as uh america and australia is a really 1855 01:34:25.449 --> 01:34:32.560 interesting question because again the old ideas we have have 1856 01:34:32.659 --> 01:34:35.420 proven to be incorrect and i think especially in the 1857 01:34:35.439 --> 01:34:37.819 case of the americas i think it's super interesting because 1858 01:34:37.859 --> 01:34:39.899 obviously as you know we used to think it was 1859 01:34:40.260 --> 01:34:43.609 clovis first 13 000 years ago but So many sites 1860 01:34:43.710 --> 01:34:45.869 now seem to be pushing that back much, much, much, much, 1861 01:34:45.909 --> 01:34:49.890 much older into the past. So, yeah, that's a really 1862 01:34:49.909 --> 01:34:53.810 interesting question. I mean, obviously, now we know that humans 1863 01:34:53.829 --> 01:34:57.100 have been in the Americas for at least 22,000 years 1864 01:34:57.140 --> 01:34:59.659 with white sands footprints, which I'm sure you've heard of that. 1865 01:34:59.819 --> 01:35:02.079 Yes, 22,000 years. It's crazy. 1866 01:35:02.239 --> 01:35:04.239 So that's the oldest accepted evidence. But I think there's 1867 01:35:04.260 --> 01:35:07.380 loads of interesting sites that potentially push it quite a 1868 01:35:07.380 --> 01:35:09.930 lot further back than that, which are a bit more controversial. 1869 01:35:09.970 --> 01:35:11.689 But when you take them all together, they're kind of, yeah, 1870 01:35:11.710 --> 01:35:14.890 there's white sands. So that's now accepted, I think, by 1871 01:35:14.930 --> 01:35:19.300 most archaeologists. And why that's important is because it kind 1872 01:35:19.319 --> 01:35:23.159 of opens it all up again. Because of when the 1873 01:35:23.939 --> 01:35:27.060 glacial maximums happen, kind of the opening of the corridor, 1874 01:35:27.359 --> 01:35:30.380 because that's pre that. It means that we now don't 1875 01:35:30.399 --> 01:35:32.279 know how long humans have been in the Americas. It 1876 01:35:32.300 --> 01:35:34.090 could go back way further. And then you start looking 1877 01:35:34.100 --> 01:35:36.789 at these other sites and you think maybe it's a lot, 1878 01:35:36.829 --> 01:35:41.409 lot older. So there's one in Mexico called Chicoita Cave. 1879 01:35:42.600 --> 01:35:45.409 apologies for the pronunciation is probably wrong but this is 1880 01:35:45.609 --> 01:35:50.329 a 33 000 years old and high in the mountains 1881 01:35:50.369 --> 01:35:53.029 of northern mexico they found like 2 000 stone tools 1882 01:35:54.010 --> 01:35:58.770 um and they did like 50 separate dates and the 1883 01:35:58.829 --> 01:36:01.989 date isn't controversial what's controversial is if they were human-made 1884 01:36:02.050 --> 01:36:05.729 tools um but the scientists working at the site think 1885 01:36:05.770 --> 01:36:08.020 that this is evidence of humans in the americas 33 1886 01:36:08.020 --> 01:36:11.279 000 years ago then there's a site in brazil called 1887 01:36:11.319 --> 01:36:16.069 pedro ferrada which is 50 000 years old um is 1888 01:36:16.090 --> 01:36:22.170 that chica chica yeah yeah exactly so i mean it 1889 01:36:22.189 --> 01:36:23.970 looks just like a tool but i mean people argue 1890 01:36:23.989 --> 01:36:26.699 that they're natural um so it's up in the air 1891 01:36:26.720 --> 01:36:30.500 it's not accepted yet but i think that's the probably 1892 01:36:30.520 --> 01:36:35.899 the most uh the least controversial um 26 000 years 1893 01:36:35.939 --> 01:36:38.539 ago yeah but it goes up to it's like 30 1894 01:36:38.539 --> 01:36:41.359 to 33 000 years i think um but yeah there's 1895 01:36:41.380 --> 01:36:44.079 a site called pedro furada in brazil where they found 1896 01:36:44.100 --> 01:36:47.329 a hearth like structure so people making fire they found 1897 01:36:47.390 --> 01:36:51.829 charcoal they found blackened stones uh heated stones rather uh 1898 01:36:52.189 --> 01:36:54.439 and that they dated that to like 50 or 60 1899 01:36:54.439 --> 01:36:57.850 000 years ago so that's like a lot older than 1900 01:36:58.130 --> 01:37:01.439 than white sands obviously um so that's a really interesting 1901 01:37:01.479 --> 01:37:04.829 site again not fully accepted by archaeologists but the people 1902 01:37:04.890 --> 01:37:07.789 working there are quite convinced that it's evidence of human 1903 01:37:07.829 --> 01:37:11.810 presence in Brazil, which is obviously quite far South, um, 50, 1904 01:37:11.810 --> 01:37:15.180 over 50,000 years ago. Um, but the thing is you 1905 01:37:15.220 --> 01:37:18.420 can't prove it because you haven't, they need so many 1906 01:37:18.460 --> 01:37:20.420 things to say it for sure. They need like a 1907 01:37:20.859 --> 01:37:22.800 fossil of a human basically, because otherwise you can say 1908 01:37:22.840 --> 01:37:23.760 it's natural. 1909 01:37:24.859 --> 01:37:25.159 Yeah. 1910 01:37:25.600 --> 01:37:28.899 Uh, I don't know what those paintings are. I'm assuming 1911 01:37:28.939 --> 01:37:32.039 they're more recent because always that would be pretty clear evidence. Um, 1912 01:37:32.590 --> 01:37:37.449 But I think the hearth-like structures and the heated stones 1913 01:37:37.489 --> 01:37:39.689 and the charcoal are dated to over 50,000 years ago. 1914 01:37:39.750 --> 01:37:43.529 That's crazy. Go back to that last one, please. Right there. 1915 01:37:44.329 --> 01:37:45.869 That is wild. That is wild. 1916 01:37:45.949 --> 01:37:48.270 I'm assuming that is much more recent because otherwise that 1917 01:37:48.289 --> 01:37:52.109 would be very clear evidence of human presence. But I 1918 01:37:52.149 --> 01:37:55.529 think the oldest layers go back. I think it's been continuously, 1919 01:37:55.630 --> 01:37:58.810 or they think it's been continuously inhabited for thousands and 1920 01:37:58.850 --> 01:38:06.399 thousands of years with the oldest being over 50,000 years old. Yeah. 1921 01:38:06.739 --> 01:38:09.130 Are they the tools? They might be the tools. So 1922 01:38:09.170 --> 01:38:10.750 critics say that it's natural, right? 1923 01:38:13.489 --> 01:38:16.029 That those are natural things, not tools? 1924 01:38:16.630 --> 01:38:16.909 Yeah. 1925 01:38:17.029 --> 01:38:19.149 But a paper came out in 2023 that really made 1926 01:38:19.189 --> 01:38:21.289 the case that it's human presence. 1927 01:38:21.710 --> 01:38:22.909 Napping. Yeah. 1928 01:38:23.090 --> 01:38:27.989 Yeah. And I think it's leaning that way, but it's 1929 01:38:28.010 --> 01:38:29.270 just so hard to prove it, right? 1930 01:38:29.350 --> 01:38:29.949 So it's not accepted. 1931 01:38:30.220 --> 01:38:32.800 Yet but jamie uh i just sent you a link 1932 01:38:32.920 --> 01:38:35.039 that i found yesterday i thought it was pretty bizarre 1933 01:38:35.220 --> 01:38:37.420 a completely different part of the world but also really 1934 01:38:37.479 --> 01:38:43.359 interesting it's a link to an instagram video there's so 1935 01:38:43.380 --> 01:38:46.140 much of this stuff now that's what's so cool it's 1936 01:38:46.180 --> 01:38:49.930 like and if you're in a good algorithm You get inundated. 1937 01:38:49.949 --> 01:38:50.909 Give me some volume on this. 1938 01:38:55.699 --> 01:39:00.250 Algerian Sahara with 5,000 rooms, and we still haven't seen 1939 01:39:00.310 --> 01:39:00.649 all of them. 1940 01:39:00.810 --> 01:39:02.029 It's called Sefar. 1941 01:39:02.229 --> 01:39:04.729 No roads lead to it. No vehicle can reach it. 1942 01:39:05.029 --> 01:39:07.609 The only way in is on foot through a maze 1943 01:39:07.649 --> 01:39:11.409 of stone pathways that all look identical. On the walls inside, 1944 01:39:11.569 --> 01:39:15.850 there are 15,000 paintings, animals that no longer exist here, 1945 01:39:16.210 --> 01:39:19.229 rivers that dried up thousands of years ago, and then 1946 01:39:19.550 --> 01:39:23.670 things no one can identify. Floating figures with no faces. 1947 01:39:23.979 --> 01:39:27.100 Beings with round heads wearing what looks like suits. A 1948 01:39:27.189 --> 01:39:30.260 figure over three meters tall that the man who discovered 1949 01:39:30.300 --> 01:39:34.600 it simply called a god. Most of Sephar is still unmapped. 1950 01:39:34.920 --> 01:39:37.180 Whatever else is in there, no one's seen it yet. 1951 01:39:38.859 --> 01:39:42.500 I could do without that guy's voice. He's a little ridiculous. 1952 01:39:42.520 --> 01:39:43.560 I'm going to take the radio head out. 1953 01:39:43.819 --> 01:39:46.720 Yeah, settle down, buddy. It sounds like an AI voice, right? 1954 01:39:47.079 --> 01:39:49.479 Like a super enthusiastic AI voice? Is that what it is? 1955 01:39:49.819 --> 01:39:53.319 Well, it could be. It very well could be. It 1956 01:39:53.340 --> 01:39:54.699 definitely is going to be in the future, but. 1957 01:39:57.520 --> 01:39:58.229 What was it called? 1958 01:39:58.239 --> 01:40:03.090 I don't... I don't remember. Sephar? It's just... Yeah. Okay. 1959 01:40:03.109 --> 01:40:04.010 Let's try to look it up. 1960 01:40:04.770 --> 01:40:07.890 See if we can look it up. Sub-Saharan Africa is 1961 01:40:07.909 --> 01:40:12.869 another weird one, right? Because especially the Sahara itself, that 1962 01:40:12.970 --> 01:40:17.829 used to be vast, green, grassy trees, jungle. Who knows 1963 01:40:17.850 --> 01:40:23.390 what it was? And now, no one's really has really 1964 01:40:23.409 --> 01:40:25.609 any understanding of what's under that sand. 1965 01:40:25.810 --> 01:40:28.189 Yeah but it was fertile and green right up until 1966 01:40:28.770 --> 01:40:31.729 literally right up until the point that the conventional timeline 1967 01:40:31.750 --> 01:40:35.609 has civilization starting like around 4000 bc is when it 1968 01:40:35.979 --> 01:40:39.159 flipped to to desert um so yeah i mean i'm 1969 01:40:39.180 --> 01:40:41.479 sure there's there has been archaeological work done in the 1970 01:40:41.500 --> 01:40:43.920 sahara but compared to the size of the sahara right 1971 01:40:44.220 --> 01:40:46.460 there's there's just got to be loads of stuff under 1972 01:40:46.479 --> 01:40:49.960 there that could potentially change our understanding of origins of 1973 01:40:50.000 --> 01:40:53.560 civilization for sure um very interesting region but yeah extremely 1974 01:40:53.600 --> 01:40:57.109 hard to excavate for many reasons such as the climate 1975 01:40:57.289 --> 01:40:59.609 and also political instability a lot of those countries are 1976 01:40:59.970 --> 01:41:01.609 pretty fucked up so it's hard to like go in 1977 01:41:01.630 --> 01:41:04.869 there and do archaeology but very interesting region of the 1978 01:41:04.909 --> 01:41:08.569 world and obviously that is where egypt emerged just after 1979 01:41:08.630 --> 01:41:10.449 this period so you know what were the people that 1980 01:41:10.630 --> 01:41:12.399 kind of went to the mal river doing before there's 1981 01:41:13.180 --> 01:41:16.560 many interesting things there's um What's it called? There's an 1982 01:41:16.619 --> 01:41:18.819 interesting site. Napta Playa, I think it's called. 1983 01:41:18.840 --> 01:41:20.359 Yeah, it's going to be a little hard to get to. 1984 01:41:20.800 --> 01:41:22.420 It's in the middle of the Sahara Desert. 1985 01:41:22.840 --> 01:41:23.180 Boy. 1986 01:41:23.340 --> 01:41:24.000 In Algeria. 1987 01:41:25.060 --> 01:41:25.510 Jeez. 1988 01:41:26.550 --> 01:41:26.909 Buried. 1989 01:41:28.510 --> 01:41:28.829 Oh, yeah. 1990 01:41:28.850 --> 01:41:29.989 I have heard of this, actually. 1991 01:41:30.989 --> 01:41:31.590 Somewhere in there. 1992 01:41:32.449 --> 01:41:41.039 Fuck. Imagine you're an archaeologist. You're tasked with, you know, 1993 01:41:41.319 --> 01:41:42.840 someone gives you some funding. Hey. 1994 01:41:43.279 --> 01:41:44.239 Sahara Desert, bro. 1995 01:41:44.260 --> 01:41:48.189 We want you to get in there. And go look around. What? 1996 01:41:48.729 --> 01:41:50.479 Yeah, it's probably not the ideal place to go. 1997 01:41:50.560 --> 01:41:51.779 You can't even go without getting killed. 1998 01:41:51.800 --> 01:41:52.539 Yeah, you don't want to get shot. 1999 01:41:52.560 --> 01:41:57.500 You could literally die. So, no. Yeah. 2000 01:41:58.039 --> 01:42:00.760 Just imagine if you found something cool. Imagine you found 2001 01:42:00.779 --> 01:42:01.659 a bunch of cool shit. 2002 01:42:01.680 --> 01:42:04.260 Yeah, you go. Good luck. Just good luck taking it out. 2003 01:42:04.319 --> 01:42:05.920 Just like, oh, where'd you get that? 2004 01:42:06.220 --> 01:42:08.970 Exactly. Thank you. Exactly. They'll kill you. 2005 01:42:09.409 --> 01:42:10.750 That was also my thought. 2006 01:42:10.869 --> 01:42:12.670 I was going to bring that up about Gobekli Tepe, 2007 01:42:12.850 --> 01:42:15.909 about if they bring in more archaeologists, more people to dig, 2008 01:42:15.949 --> 01:42:18.149 if they really, truly expand. They really have to keep 2009 01:42:18.229 --> 01:42:21.239 track of what they find because the amount of money 2010 01:42:21.260 --> 01:42:24.000 that someone can get for an artifact on the black 2011 01:42:24.079 --> 01:42:27.880 market is pretty incredible. This is an issue with Egypt, right? 2012 01:42:28.100 --> 01:42:28.760 And South America. 2013 01:42:29.439 --> 01:42:32.920 Yes, and South America. But Egypt in particular, there's some inconsistencies. 2014 01:42:33.500 --> 01:42:38.100 With Zahi Hawass's versions of like what was discovered in 2015 01:42:38.140 --> 01:42:40.460 some places, whether or not a skeleton was in a 2016 01:42:40.500 --> 01:42:46.239 sarcophagus versus what he said later. Like in the older versions, 2017 01:42:46.439 --> 01:42:48.840 there was a skeleton. And the newer versions, they didn't 2018 01:42:48.880 --> 01:42:52.479 find anything. So did you sell a skeleton? Because people 2019 01:42:52.510 --> 01:42:55.270 sell– I'm not saying he did. But did somebody sell 2020 01:42:55.310 --> 01:42:59.069 a skeleton? Because people sell skeletons. And if you are 2021 01:42:59.109 --> 01:43:01.989 some rich guy who lives in some other country and 2022 01:43:02.029 --> 01:43:05.010 you're a billionaire from oil– And you're like, you know 2023 01:43:05.029 --> 01:43:07.170 what I'd like? You got a guy. He's like, you've 2024 01:43:07.189 --> 01:43:09.050 got everything. You've got all the Ferraris. He's like, you 2025 01:43:09.069 --> 01:43:12.829 know what I want? I want an Egyptian skeleton. Get 2026 01:43:12.869 --> 01:43:15.210 me that. Go get me a mummy. I want a 2027 01:43:15.329 --> 01:43:16.029 fucking mummy. 2028 01:43:16.470 --> 01:43:18.569 Or any kind of artifacts or anything. Yeah. 2029 01:43:18.770 --> 01:43:19.069 Yeah. 2030 01:43:19.329 --> 01:43:22.760 Especially something gold, some ancient gold. All that stuff was 2031 01:43:22.840 --> 01:43:26.239 stolen out of there. So was it melted down? For 2032 01:43:26.300 --> 01:43:29.979 grave robbers, that must have been an incredible place to 2033 01:43:30.020 --> 01:43:33.779 be before everybody discovered all those things. tombs because we 2034 01:43:33.819 --> 01:43:37.239 know like with King Tut, which was preserved, but luckily 2035 01:43:37.300 --> 01:43:40.840 nobody got into that until what year was that? They 2036 01:43:40.880 --> 01:43:43.220 found it. Two-ton commons. 2037 01:43:43.579 --> 01:43:45.850 I'm not sure, but within the last couple of decades, 2038 01:43:45.890 --> 01:43:47.369 I think. I'm not sure. 2039 01:43:48.050 --> 01:43:49.569 Whatever it was, it was, I think it was a 2040 01:43:49.569 --> 01:43:51.609 little longer than that. But the point is, it's like 2041 01:43:51.829 --> 01:43:58.050 fantastic gold sarcophagus cover and massive fucking treasure trove of 2042 01:43:58.170 --> 01:44:00.720 jewels and things like how much of that stuff is 2043 01:44:01.470 --> 01:44:05.289 scattered in private collections in the world, you know? 2044 01:44:05.630 --> 01:44:05.810 Yeah. 2045 01:44:06.029 --> 01:44:10.039 And in South America, like, because they spent, like, underneath Cusco, 2046 01:44:10.060 --> 01:44:12.399 there's all these tunnels, right? And people have known about 2047 01:44:12.420 --> 01:44:14.460 them for a long, long time. But it took a 2048 01:44:14.500 --> 01:44:17.100 long time for archaeology to kind of accept that they 2049 01:44:17.119 --> 01:44:19.949 were there. But people have been going in, like, people had, like, 2050 01:44:20.430 --> 01:44:22.270 tours and stuff down at the tunnels before it was, like, 2051 01:44:22.289 --> 01:44:25.149 widely accepted. And back then, it's just rife for people 2052 01:44:25.210 --> 01:44:27.289 selling off to the black market because there's no control 2053 01:44:27.350 --> 01:44:27.590 over it. 2054 01:44:27.609 --> 01:44:29.270 There's no kind of institutional. 2055 01:44:29.949 --> 01:44:31.729 control over it so people could just kind of do 2056 01:44:31.760 --> 01:44:35.819 what they want until it actually finally got like uh 2057 01:44:36.119 --> 01:44:39.239 you know controlled by the authorities so yeah who knows 2058 01:44:39.279 --> 01:44:41.300 what went and all over the world as you say 2059 01:44:41.859 --> 01:44:44.140 uh yeah there could be stuff that is really interesting 2060 01:44:44.159 --> 01:44:45.939 that is just out there. 2061 01:44:46.420 --> 01:44:51.010 And then there's the elongated skulls the weird fucking skulls 2062 01:44:51.119 --> 01:44:54.130 and a long history of people discovering those like how 2063 01:44:54.149 --> 01:44:56.289 many people got the good ones how many of them 2064 01:44:56.710 --> 01:44:59.710 were removed a long time ago and sit somewhere mhm 2065 01:45:00.340 --> 01:45:01.800 It's almost like you have to go raid all the 2066 01:45:01.899 --> 01:45:03.180 rich guys in the world. 2067 01:45:03.699 --> 01:45:04.979 See what you got hiding in your basement. 2068 01:45:05.000 --> 01:45:07.739 Just find some guy. Like, what's your Google search like? 2069 01:45:10.600 --> 01:45:13.770 Let's find out who's got the stuff. Because, I mean, 2070 01:45:13.810 --> 01:45:16.569 if you're a person with a private museum, if you've 2071 01:45:16.590 --> 01:45:18.409 got that kind of money. And, like, there's people in 2072 01:45:18.430 --> 01:45:21.189 the world that have private zoos, right? So they have 2073 01:45:21.250 --> 01:45:23.930 so much money in other countries that they've, you know, 2074 01:45:24.390 --> 01:45:29.449 they have basically the wild kingdom in their backyards. And 2075 01:45:29.489 --> 01:45:31.109 that guy's like, well, I got that. 2076 01:45:31.600 --> 01:45:34.979 Now I want– I want something even more weird. 2077 01:45:35.220 --> 01:45:37.279 I want you to build– like I went to the 2078 01:45:37.380 --> 01:45:40.220 Cairo Museum once and I like the way it looks. 2079 01:45:40.359 --> 01:45:43.850 I want that in my house. There's got to be 2080 01:45:43.859 --> 01:45:44.770 people like that in the world. 2081 01:45:44.779 --> 01:45:47.789 This guy. He's one of them. 2082 01:45:48.149 --> 01:45:48.590 Here he goes. 2083 01:45:48.609 --> 01:45:51.010 91-year-old Don Miller from Indiana. 2084 01:45:51.689 --> 01:45:54.390 He had thousands of artifacts removed from his house. 2085 01:45:55.220 --> 01:45:55.640 Oh, wow. 2086 01:45:55.699 --> 01:45:57.859 I think he had Egyptian mummies. 2087 01:45:58.460 --> 01:45:59.159 Whoa. 2088 01:45:59.279 --> 01:46:00.840 I'm trying to find the good pictures. 2089 01:46:00.539 --> 01:46:03.479 In the list of what he had. So they seized 2090 01:46:03.539 --> 01:46:06.500 his stuff. How'd they find out about it? Was he 2091 01:46:06.619 --> 01:46:07.439 on Instagram? 2092 01:46:09.600 --> 01:46:12.789 A delegation from China went to Indiana to claim their stuff. 2093 01:46:12.810 --> 01:46:15.789 Whoa. A delegation from China. I wonder if they showed 2094 01:46:15.829 --> 01:46:18.529 up with guns. Give me your shit back. FBI raided 2095 01:46:18.590 --> 01:46:22.850 a 91-year-old missionary's home and found thousands of stolen Native 2096 01:46:22.869 --> 01:46:24.770 American bones. Whoa. 2097 01:46:25.739 --> 01:46:27.159 Amazon River canoe. 2098 01:46:28.079 --> 01:46:32.859 Wow, Ming Dynasty jade, an Egyptian sarcophagus, and a dugout 2099 01:46:32.899 --> 01:46:36.850 canoe that had traveled down the Amazon River. Wow. 2100 01:46:37.010 --> 01:46:39.189 It was just in his house. There's a picture of 2101 01:46:39.229 --> 01:46:41.210 his house in another thing I had. I mean, it's 2102 01:46:41.250 --> 01:46:41.810 just all. 2103 01:46:42.569 --> 01:46:44.550 How'd this guy get the scratch? Where's he getting the 2104 01:46:44.590 --> 01:46:47.079 money for all this? What'd this guy do? 2105 01:46:47.319 --> 01:46:48.640 I don't know why there's not a movie about him. 2106 01:46:48.960 --> 01:46:54.550 After 10 years, FBI returned 7,000 rare artifacts... Looted by 2107 01:46:54.710 --> 01:46:57.149 Indiana grave robber. Oh, he's a grave robber. 2108 01:46:57.270 --> 01:47:01.250 That's what they call him? So it's just a dude 2109 01:47:01.270 --> 01:47:05.189 who's a collector. He might not necessarily be a grave robber. 2110 01:47:06.149 --> 01:47:10.390 I don't think this is the same guy. FBI found 42,000 2111 01:47:10.390 --> 01:47:13.970 relics and 2,000 human bones in a man's home. 2112 01:47:13.989 --> 01:47:16.520 What is that? 2113 01:47:16.989 --> 01:47:19.579 Whoa, what the? What is that, a horse? 2114 01:47:19.600 --> 01:47:20.840 Maybe like a pangolin or something. 2115 01:47:20.920 --> 01:47:27.449 A sloth? Yeah, it looks like a pangolin, right? 42,000 relics. Oh, 2116 01:47:27.470 --> 01:47:29.609 same guy. No. Don Miller. 2117 01:47:30.329 --> 01:47:31.609 Whoa. 2118 01:47:31.810 --> 01:47:37.369 It is the same guy. That's crazy. This guy's a nut. 2119 01:47:37.670 --> 01:47:42.310 He died in 2015. Too bad. He was 91 when 2120 01:47:42.430 --> 01:47:45.170 agents first knocked on his door in 2014. Wow, he 2121 01:47:45.189 --> 01:47:48.670 only lived a year later. The 42,000 artifacts hoarded by 2122 01:47:48.710 --> 01:47:53.180 Miller represent maybe the largest ever seizure from a private collection. 2123 01:47:54.100 --> 01:47:57.970 So this was interesting. It's like, are they saying that 2124 01:47:58.050 --> 01:48:01.329 he's not allowed to acquire them? Do we have rules 2125 01:48:01.470 --> 01:48:04.109 in terms of like, say, if you found some stuff? 2126 01:48:05.909 --> 01:48:09.510 I know we have rules about Native Americans, right? FBI 2127 01:48:09.529 --> 01:48:12.390 became involved when they learned thousands of items were obtained 2128 01:48:12.789 --> 01:48:17.090 in violation of antiquities laws and federal and state statutes. 2129 01:48:17.130 --> 01:48:20.149 According to the FBI, Miller went on digs around the 2130 01:48:20.189 --> 01:48:23.989 world and illegally brought his finds home to the United States. 2131 01:48:24.789 --> 01:48:26.710 I think Nick Cage had to give back that skull 2132 01:48:26.729 --> 01:48:29.569 he bought because it was stolen from somewhere or something. 2133 01:48:30.069 --> 01:48:32.109 He bought a skull? Like a T-Rex skull. 2134 01:48:32.880 --> 01:48:32.949 Oh. 2135 01:48:32.949 --> 01:48:34.760 You ever hear about that? 2136 01:48:35.569 --> 01:48:37.140 Oh, he had to give back his T-Rex skull? I 2137 01:48:37.159 --> 01:48:37.739 think so because. 2138 01:48:37.619 --> 01:48:41.000 They found out that it was like stolen. So he 2139 01:48:41.020 --> 01:48:43.159 gave it back. I don't know what happened with the money, but. 2140 01:48:43.699 --> 01:48:47.340 Whoa. How much is the T-Rex? 2141 01:48:47.500 --> 01:48:48.649 Also, I was thinking, this guy got. 2142 01:48:48.659 --> 01:48:49.220 He got fucked. 2143 01:48:49.460 --> 01:48:50.420 They found this guy. 2144 01:48:50.479 --> 01:48:53.149 There's got to be... I brought him up because I 2145 01:48:53.170 --> 01:48:57.609 knew about it. He probably talked about it at the 2146 01:48:57.630 --> 01:48:58.289 bar and all that. 2147 01:48:58.229 --> 01:48:58.649 Kind of shit. 2148 01:48:58.689 --> 01:48:58.810 Yeah. 2149 01:48:59.270 --> 01:49:00.069 What about the people who don't? 2150 01:49:00.090 --> 01:49:01.010 He's on Facebook. 2151 01:49:01.130 --> 01:49:02.210 Yeah. What about the people who don't? 2152 01:49:02.229 --> 01:49:05.350 Those old dudes are all on Facebook. Have you seen 2153 01:49:05.399 --> 01:49:09.500 the dinosaur that Ways to Well has? Yes. Ways to Well... 2154 01:49:10.109 --> 01:49:11.630 legally purchased a dinosaur. 2155 01:49:12.170 --> 01:49:12.569 What, like a. 2156 01:49:12.569 --> 01:49:15.689 So they have a, like a dinosaur bone, some aquatic 2157 01:49:15.710 --> 01:49:18.479 dinosaur that they have suspended in their ceiling. 2158 01:49:18.819 --> 01:49:19.060 Really? 2159 01:49:19.279 --> 01:49:22.800 Yeah, you can buy dinosaur bones. Um... He bought a 2160 01:49:22.819 --> 01:49:23.640 skull for $ 276, 000. 2161 01:49:23.399 --> 01:49:24.520 Whoa, he got fucked. 2162 01:49:24.539 --> 01:49:27.600 Stole it from the Mongolian government. Wow. 2163 01:49:27.619 --> 01:49:28.800 Smuggled it out of the Gobi Desert. 2164 01:49:29.680 --> 01:49:33.239 He voluntarily returned the fossil to the Mongolian government after U.S. 2165 01:49:33.279 --> 01:49:34.770 authorities found it was smuggled. 2166 01:49:35.149 --> 01:49:35.510 Oh, no. 2167 01:49:36.510 --> 01:49:36.949 Wow. 2168 01:49:38.130 --> 01:49:38.210 Um. 2169 01:49:38.810 --> 01:49:42.289 See if you can find the ways to weld dinosaur. Yeah, 2170 01:49:42.310 --> 01:49:44.770 you can buy dinosaur bones. That's pretty cool. There's a 2171 01:49:44.770 --> 01:49:47.449 lot of people that don't believe in dinosaurs lately. Really? 2172 01:49:47.470 --> 01:49:48.770 This is very confusing. 2173 01:49:49.390 --> 01:49:49.569 Why? 2174 01:49:49.609 --> 01:49:52.649 What's their reasoning? Oh, just they've been lied to about everything. 2175 01:49:52.930 --> 01:49:55.710 Maybe dinosaurs too. And there's people that think that dinosaurs 2176 01:49:55.729 --> 01:50:00.409 were actually the dragons of ancient history. And that's all bullshit. 2177 01:50:01.229 --> 01:50:03.930 It's the dumbest theories. I mean, look, you know, we 2178 01:50:03.970 --> 01:50:07.270 have– there's the ways to weld dinosaur. That's what it 2179 01:50:07.289 --> 01:50:07.630 looks like. 2180 01:50:08.090 --> 01:50:08.649 That's pretty dope. 2181 01:50:08.800 --> 01:50:11.550 Yeah, it's pretty sick. Some sort of an aquatic dinosaur. 2182 01:50:13.229 --> 01:50:15.310 How much of that is actual bone and how much 2183 01:50:15.329 --> 01:50:17.170 of it is replica? I don't know. Some of them 2184 01:50:17.229 --> 01:50:20.409 are replica. I think that's actual bone. But, like, they 2185 01:50:20.430 --> 01:50:23.880 have T-Rexes. I think the most complete T-Rex is, I 2186 01:50:28.420 --> 01:50:32.640 want to say 80%. What is the most complete T-Rex 2187 01:50:32.699 --> 01:50:34.119 skeleton ever found? 2188 01:50:34.140 --> 01:50:36.500 That one just sold recently. 2189 01:50:37.609 --> 01:50:38.050 At an auction. 2190 01:50:38.909 --> 01:50:39.180 Oh, yeah? 2191 01:50:39.380 --> 01:50:40.739 Yeah, it was 62% complete. 2192 01:50:41.159 --> 01:50:42.359 Is that the most complete one ever? 2193 01:50:42.380 --> 01:50:42.880 I'm pretty sure. 2194 01:50:44.420 --> 01:50:45.060 I thought there was a. 2195 01:50:45.220 --> 01:50:48.180 Oh, there's one that's 90%. Oh, there you go. Well, 2196 01:50:48.239 --> 01:50:50.529 discovered with 90% of its skeleton recovered. 2197 01:50:52.170 --> 01:50:54.729 Yeah, we know a lot, folks. This idea that dinosaurs 2198 01:50:54.750 --> 01:50:57.909 aren't real is really silly. No, it's definitely real. 2199 01:50:58.369 --> 01:50:58.649 Sue. 2200 01:50:59.050 --> 01:50:59.329 Yeah. 2201 01:50:59.550 --> 01:50:59.770 Whoa. 2202 01:51:00.229 --> 01:51:05.359 Okay. So that's real. Guys, stop. That's a real skull. 2203 01:51:05.880 --> 01:51:09.979 The problem is there's been deception. And one of the 2204 01:51:10.000 --> 01:51:13.119 big pieces of deception is when you go to a 2205 01:51:13.159 --> 01:51:16.279 lot of museums and you see a dinosaur skeleton, you 2206 01:51:16.319 --> 01:51:18.460 assume that's how they found it and they put it 2207 01:51:18.479 --> 01:51:21.300 back together again. Whereas a lot of the pieces of 2208 01:51:21.340 --> 01:51:23.539 those bones are not real. A lot of the pieces 2209 01:51:23.880 --> 01:51:30.739 are recreations and some entire skeletons that are in museums 2210 01:51:30.840 --> 01:51:33.960 are all a recreation. There's no actual bone that you're 2211 01:51:33.979 --> 01:51:40.100 actually looking at. And so then people are like, hey. 2212 01:51:40.140 --> 01:51:42.140 It's the same with ancient sites, though. 2213 01:51:42.140 --> 01:51:46.199 67 million years old, 80% intact. So, like, just that alone, 2214 01:51:46.199 --> 01:51:48.850 80% of that is real. That's amazing. 2215 01:51:49.020 --> 01:51:49.550 They're real. 2216 01:51:50.630 --> 01:51:54.090 It's a fucking real thing that existed just like fucking 2217 01:51:54.130 --> 01:51:58.250 crocodiles are still real today. There was a real group 2218 01:51:58.310 --> 01:52:01.100 of large reptiles that roamed the earth. 2219 01:52:01.390 --> 01:52:02.989 For a long time. But the crazy thing, I think 2220 01:52:03.050 --> 01:52:06.729 dinosaurs really highlight the kind of fragmentary nature of the 2221 01:52:06.770 --> 01:52:11.029 fossil record, right? Because they existed for 160 million years 2222 01:52:11.069 --> 01:52:13.369 or something like that. But we only have like a 2223 01:52:13.390 --> 01:52:17.930 few thousand fossils from that huge amount of time. And 2224 01:52:17.989 --> 01:52:20.090 it just shows how little survives, right? 2225 01:52:20.350 --> 01:52:23.609 Yeah, exactly. And the fossil record is just really weird. 2226 01:52:24.029 --> 01:52:26.939 It takes a lot to make a fossil. So we 2227 01:52:26.979 --> 01:52:29.300 have a tiny fraction of the actual data. 2228 01:52:30.229 --> 01:52:33.229 And we have to extrapolate out from that. And just 2229 01:52:33.529 --> 01:52:36.130 that's our understanding. And that's why we do not know 2230 01:52:36.149 --> 01:52:37.329 what happened in the deep past. 2231 01:52:37.430 --> 01:52:38.850 Isn't it fucking cool? 2232 01:52:38.909 --> 01:52:39.329 It's so cool. 2233 01:52:39.350 --> 01:52:39.710 I love it. 2234 01:52:39.770 --> 01:52:40.829 That's why I do what I do, man. 2235 01:52:40.890 --> 01:52:43.640 I fucking love it. Yeah, I don't know anybody who 2236 01:52:44.000 --> 01:52:46.520 when you first learn about this, anybody that I want 2237 01:52:46.539 --> 01:52:48.340 to talk to, when you first learn about this stuff, 2238 01:52:48.359 --> 01:52:53.500 you don't go, whoa. Because it is so interesting. and 2239 01:52:53.720 --> 01:52:57.829 um that's why to me the um reaction to graham 2240 01:52:57.850 --> 01:53:02.609 hancock's netflix series was so strange like so unhinged like 2241 01:53:02.670 --> 01:53:05.420 why why are you guys freaking out about this and 2242 01:53:05.460 --> 01:53:07.539 calling it the most dangerous show. 2243 01:53:07.520 --> 01:53:10.340 Yeah i mean i've experienced this firsthand now because i 2244 01:53:10.560 --> 01:53:12.520 mean last time i was here i wasn't really known 2245 01:53:12.560 --> 01:53:14.850 about but now i'm a kind of people know who 2246 01:53:14.890 --> 01:53:19.069 i am and I get so much hate. It's weird 2247 01:53:19.109 --> 01:53:21.310 because people paint me out to be something I'm not like. 2248 01:53:21.489 --> 01:53:23.069 And it's just so strange because I'm me and I 2249 01:53:23.109 --> 01:53:25.489 know what I think and I know what I believe. Obviously, 2250 01:53:25.529 --> 01:53:27.170 you've experienced that on a whole different level. 2251 01:53:27.689 --> 01:53:30.409 Yeah, I've experienced it from the government. Yeah, exactly. 2252 01:53:31.770 --> 01:53:34.510 But it's just wild. It's so weird when people paint 2253 01:53:34.529 --> 01:53:36.029 you out to be someone that you're not and put 2254 01:53:36.069 --> 01:53:38.409 words in your mouth. It's strange. 2255 01:53:39.649 --> 01:53:42.270 You'll get used to it. The key is just don't 2256 01:53:42.329 --> 01:53:44.710 read it. That's the key. Like you're going to be 2257 01:53:44.729 --> 01:53:47.720 aware of enough of it peripherally. People will bring it 2258 01:53:47.739 --> 01:53:50.680 to your attention if it's really important or if it's 2259 01:53:50.720 --> 01:53:53.560 like significant. None of it is going to really be important. 2260 01:53:53.739 --> 01:53:56.579 But as long as– and you're a very conscientious guy 2261 01:53:56.720 --> 01:53:58.600 and you do a really good job, like I said, 2262 01:53:58.640 --> 01:54:00.859 of being objective and measured and that's all you need 2263 01:54:00.880 --> 01:54:02.899 to do. Just keep doing that. Just don't read the 2264 01:54:02.920 --> 01:54:07.010 comments because there's a bunch of people out there that 2265 01:54:07.289 --> 01:54:11.329 are just very– unhappy period, no matter what. And when 2266 01:54:11.409 --> 01:54:14.529 someone is getting a lot of attention, they're very angry always. 2267 01:54:15.069 --> 01:54:17.600 And there's whatever that number is, one out of a hundred, 2268 01:54:17.689 --> 01:54:19.960 one out of a thousand, it doesn't matter when they 2269 01:54:20.319 --> 01:54:23.819 reach you, that negativity is never good for you. It's 2270 01:54:23.859 --> 01:54:24.180 only bad. 2271 01:54:24.220 --> 01:54:25.699 And it sits with you a little bit more. Like 2272 01:54:25.720 --> 01:54:28.579 you get all the positive comments, but you don't really fuck, 2273 01:54:28.600 --> 01:54:30.020 you know, like the negative ones sticks in your brain. 2274 01:54:30.039 --> 01:54:32.800 But you know, what's really interesting is like, uh, people 2275 01:54:32.819 --> 01:54:34.600 have done like hit pieces on me and shit, but 2276 01:54:35.229 --> 01:54:37.390 And obviously loads of negative stuff comes through. But also 2277 01:54:37.430 --> 01:54:41.090 I've had like actual archaeologists and actual people working in 2278 01:54:41.189 --> 01:54:43.810 actual institutions reach out to me and say like, you know, 2279 01:54:43.829 --> 01:54:46.130 these are like actual archaeologists. And they're saying like, Michael, 2280 01:54:46.409 --> 01:54:48.390 we value your work and we actually think you're an 2281 01:54:48.489 --> 01:54:50.760 important voice and stuff like that. And I find that 2282 01:54:50.770 --> 01:54:53.340 really encouraging because these are, you know, it's easy for 2283 01:54:53.399 --> 01:54:56.319 us to think about archaeologists as like a kind of bogeyman. 2284 01:54:56.699 --> 01:54:58.539 They're like. want to suppress all this stuff, but they're 2285 01:54:58.560 --> 01:55:01.420 not all like that. No, I think. 2286 01:55:00.819 --> 01:55:04.180 Particularly the young ones, particularly people that are coming up 2287 01:55:04.199 --> 01:55:05.939 that really the reason why they got into this in 2288 01:55:05.970 --> 01:55:08.090 the first place is because it's such a fascinating subject. 2289 01:55:08.810 --> 01:55:12.930 And like you, when you've spoken on this, when you 2290 01:55:12.989 --> 01:55:17.350 were in school and you were getting your degree, you 2291 01:55:17.390 --> 01:55:22.430 were confused as to why these alternative perspectives weren't entertained. 2292 01:55:23.090 --> 01:55:24.770 And I think there's a lot of young people that 2293 01:55:24.930 --> 01:55:30.460 feel confined by the gatekeepers they can they feel confined 2294 01:55:30.640 --> 01:55:34.710 by the career academics that are sort of in charge 2295 01:55:34.909 --> 01:55:39.050 of who gets tenure who gets jobs who gets grants 2296 01:55:39.069 --> 01:55:41.729 and it's a very confusing thing you don't want to 2297 01:55:41.810 --> 01:55:44.069 ruffle any feathers step on any toes and so you 2298 01:55:44.090 --> 01:55:48.789 feel constrained in your ability to be you know curious 2299 01:55:49.210 --> 01:55:52.560 and that's that seems insane for something that is so 2300 01:55:53.210 --> 01:55:55.829 Inherently curious. Curiosity driven. 2301 01:55:55.909 --> 01:55:59.020 So inherently unknown as well. We do not know as 2302 01:55:59.039 --> 01:55:59.600 we keep saying. 2303 01:55:59.859 --> 01:56:02.720 Right, right, right. We're not talking about stuff that's like 2304 01:56:03.920 --> 01:56:08.319 established science where you can clearly– it's not mathematics. This 2305 01:56:08.399 --> 01:56:13.130 is something like weird. You're looking at hints of the past. 2306 01:56:14.170 --> 01:56:17.989 And the more we look, the more we find older stuff. 2307 01:56:18.050 --> 01:56:22.409 It's like Graham always says. Stuff just keeps getting older. Yeah. Yeah. 2308 01:56:24.250 --> 01:56:26.369 crazy well it's just so cool that you're out there 2309 01:56:26.470 --> 01:56:28.609 making videos and that you could do that for a living. 2310 01:56:28.409 --> 01:56:30.760 Now i know it's wild i feel i feel so 2311 01:56:30.800 --> 01:56:33.220 lucky that i get to uh do something i'm so 2312 01:56:33.229 --> 01:56:36.720 interested in and talk about these topics and also to 2313 01:56:37.300 --> 01:56:41.479 like create not to kind of like inspire this thinking 2314 01:56:41.520 --> 01:56:43.239 and other people that's really what i want to try 2315 01:56:43.260 --> 01:56:45.880 and do is to get people thinking about history from 2316 01:56:45.920 --> 01:56:48.979 this different perspective and to think about the unknown and 2317 01:56:49.020 --> 01:56:51.600 think about the potential that what humans could have been 2318 01:56:51.640 --> 01:56:53.920 doing now that we know that a mind like ours 2319 01:56:53.960 --> 01:56:56.880 could have existed for a million years, that humans like 2320 01:56:56.939 --> 01:57:00.039 us could have inhabited this planet for such a vastly 2321 01:57:00.100 --> 01:57:01.819 longer length of time than we used to believe and 2322 01:57:01.840 --> 01:57:04.520 all the possibilities that throws up. More than anything, that's 2323 01:57:04.560 --> 01:57:07.399 what I want people to think about when they watch 2324 01:57:07.460 --> 01:57:09.319 my work. I don't want to tell them to believe 2325 01:57:09.359 --> 01:57:11.439 this or tell them to believe that. I just want 2326 01:57:11.460 --> 01:57:14.439 them to kind of think about it themselves and open 2327 01:57:14.479 --> 01:57:17.560 their minds to the possibilities that could have occurred. And 2328 01:57:17.590 --> 01:57:20.470 that doesn't mean that, like people always say that I 2329 01:57:20.510 --> 01:57:22.970 like saying that there's like advanced civilizations in prehistory. I'm 2330 01:57:22.989 --> 01:57:25.970 not saying that I'm just saying there's a lot more 2331 01:57:26.010 --> 01:57:28.529 on the table than we used to think. And I 2332 01:57:28.560 --> 01:57:31.140 think that's really fascinating. I wish more people would kind 2333 01:57:31.180 --> 01:57:34.500 of take that possibility seriously. And that's why I get 2334 01:57:34.520 --> 01:57:36.300 encouraged when I get these emails from people that actually 2335 01:57:36.319 --> 01:57:38.720 in the institutions, because they're the people that are going 2336 01:57:38.739 --> 01:57:41.359 to rewrite the textbooks. Like I can say what I want. 2337 01:57:41.399 --> 01:57:43.619 Like I'm just a YouTuber, but we need the people 2338 01:57:43.659 --> 01:57:45.699 that actually work in, in the institutions to think in 2339 01:57:45.739 --> 01:57:47.850 this way. And then, then I think we, we might 2340 01:57:48.329 --> 01:57:49.310 update our thinking on these things. 2341 01:57:50.000 --> 01:57:53.020 I think there's a lot of those young folks that 2342 01:57:53.060 --> 01:57:58.189 are coming up now in archaeology that do have alternative perspectives. 2343 01:57:58.659 --> 01:58:00.869 Whether or not they're being suppressed. And it's also very 2344 01:58:00.890 --> 01:58:05.510 encouraging for them to see a pathway outside of academics, academia, 2345 01:58:05.550 --> 01:58:08.390 like what you're pursuing. And to see like not only 2346 01:58:08.489 --> 01:58:10.420 is this viable, but you can do … do it 2347 01:58:10.560 --> 01:58:14.220 with the proper approach, like the way that you're doing it. 2348 01:58:14.560 --> 01:58:17.220 Where you're not making crazy claims, not saying the aliens 2349 01:58:17.260 --> 01:58:20.180 did it. You're not saying anything nutty. You're just saying, hey, 2350 01:58:20.800 --> 01:58:24.430 there's a lot going on here. And to pretend that 2351 01:58:24.449 --> 01:58:28.170 we have an accurate map of the territory seems silly. Mm-hmm. 2352 01:58:28.810 --> 01:58:30.770 Yeah, I just think there's so much more on the 2353 01:58:30.810 --> 01:58:32.329 table now than there used to be only a few 2354 01:58:32.369 --> 01:58:34.659 decades ago. And I think that's so exciting when we 2355 01:58:34.680 --> 01:58:36.760 look at our past because, as I say, it's the 2356 01:58:36.779 --> 01:58:38.680 reason we're all here, right? It's the reason we live 2357 01:58:38.699 --> 01:58:40.760 in this civilization is the answer to these questions. And 2358 01:58:41.180 --> 01:58:43.060 we don't know the answer to these questions anymore. So 2359 01:58:43.979 --> 01:58:45.649 let's talk about it. 2360 01:58:45.680 --> 01:58:46.079 Yeah. 2361 01:58:46.560 --> 01:58:48.390 What else have you found recently that's interesting? 2362 01:58:49.239 --> 01:58:50.720 Um yeah so i mean i was still there's still 2363 01:58:50.819 --> 01:58:55.189 um there's older american sites so um so there's obviously 2364 01:58:55.270 --> 01:58:57.909 the saruti mastodon site which is 130 000 years old 2365 01:58:57.930 --> 01:58:59.869 which is controversial but i think people. 2366 01:58:59.710 --> 01:59:03.590 That's the mastodon bones where they appear to be it 2367 01:59:03.810 --> 01:59:07.670 appears signs of human smashing the bones to get the marrow. 2368 01:59:07.430 --> 01:59:10.229 Yeah just after like fresh freshly smashed after the animal 2369 01:59:10.270 --> 01:59:12.590 had died and they found like these anvils like these 2370 01:59:12.890 --> 01:59:14.770 things that look like tools next to the bones and 2371 01:59:15.550 --> 01:59:18.390 It's controversial because we can't prove that that was human activity, 2372 01:59:18.430 --> 01:59:20.449 but it looks like human activity. It was even published 2373 01:59:20.489 --> 01:59:24.090 in Nature in 2017. So, you know, it's another little 2374 01:59:24.130 --> 01:59:26.529 data point that pushes back human presence in the America 2375 01:59:26.550 --> 01:59:29.970 potentially to over 100,000 years ago. And there's even more. 2376 01:59:30.010 --> 01:59:33.109 There's a site called Calico where, I think this one's 2377 01:59:33.149 --> 01:59:35.109 a little bit, I don't really buy this one, but 2378 01:59:35.380 --> 01:59:38.779 a very famous archaeologist called Louis Leakey, who was like 2379 01:59:38.939 --> 01:59:40.840 one of the top names in the archaeology in the 2380 01:59:40.899 --> 01:59:44.529 20th century, he believed that The Calico showed evidence of 2381 01:59:44.569 --> 01:59:48.130 human presence in the Americas over 100,000 years ago as well. 2382 01:59:48.229 --> 01:59:52.010 So it's another data point. And then there's Way at Larco, 2383 01:59:52.149 --> 01:59:53.789 which I think you've heard of. Have you heard of 2384 01:59:54.029 --> 01:59:56.329 Way at Larco? It's this site in Mexico where they 2385 01:59:56.470 --> 01:59:59.710 had this volcanic ash over these human tools, and they 2386 01:59:59.750 --> 02:00:03.270 dated the ash to crazy numbers. I'm talking like 300,000, 400,000, 500,000 2387 02:00:03.250 --> 02:00:04.520 years ago, and the tools were below this layer. 2388 02:00:04.529 --> 02:00:04.680 What? 2389 02:00:04.689 --> 02:00:04.869 Yeah, so. 2390 02:00:05.439 --> 02:00:06.050 I'm not aware of that one. 2391 02:00:06.060 --> 02:00:06.199 So.... 2392 02:00:12.119 --> 02:00:16.470 In the 1950s, there was a Mexican archaeologist who was 2393 02:00:16.729 --> 02:00:19.550 doing some work in the Vasco basin in Mexico near 2394 02:00:19.630 --> 02:00:21.869 the city of Pubella. And he was finding all these 2395 02:00:21.930 --> 02:00:25.890 extinct Pleistocene animal remains there alongside human activity. So he 2396 02:00:25.930 --> 02:00:28.310 called in some American archaeologists and they did some work 2397 02:00:28.369 --> 02:00:32.069 and they identified this site called Huayatlaco, which is an 2398 02:00:32.130 --> 02:00:35.890 archaeological site there. And they found these very sophisticated stone tools. 2399 02:00:36.329 --> 02:00:38.729 They're like bifacial stone tools, which means they've been worked 2400 02:00:38.789 --> 02:00:41.109 on on two sides. And it's quite a sophisticated level 2401 02:00:41.130 --> 02:00:43.829 of tool. And so they found this and they were like, OK, 2402 02:00:43.840 --> 02:00:46.260 this is an interesting site. Let's bring in some geologists. 2403 02:00:46.640 --> 02:00:49.520 So the geologists came in and they were expecting to 2404 02:00:49.720 --> 02:00:52.859 date the kind of sediment around the tools to around 8,000 2405 02:00:52.859 --> 02:00:56.260 to 10,000 years ago because they knew about a volcanic 2406 02:00:56.300 --> 02:00:58.460 eruption that had happened at that time. And so they 2407 02:00:58.500 --> 02:01:00.659 expected the volcanic ash to be from that. So they 2408 02:01:00.680 --> 02:01:03.439 did all this testing. But then they found that the 2409 02:01:03.560 --> 02:01:06.619 ash was giving these crazy dates, like 200,000, 300,000, up 2410 02:01:06.640 --> 02:01:11.649 to 600,000 years old. And that was completely mental because 2411 02:01:11.670 --> 02:01:14.829 the tools were below this layer of ash. And then 2412 02:01:14.850 --> 02:01:19.449 they dated a camel pelvis, I think, that was in 2413 02:01:19.489 --> 02:01:22.479 situ with the tools. And that camel pelvis came back 2414 02:01:22.899 --> 02:01:25.939 to 250,000 years old as well. And that was in 2415 02:01:25.979 --> 02:01:27.779 the same layer of the tools. So they kind of 2416 02:01:27.800 --> 02:01:30.899 brought all their different dating methods together. And there's multiple 2417 02:01:31.100 --> 02:01:34.760 kind of geological dating methods on the sediment, the ash, 2418 02:01:34.939 --> 02:01:37.800 and also the camel pelvis. And they kind of collected 2419 02:01:37.840 --> 02:01:41.680 all this to a date of 250,000 years ago for 2420 02:01:41.779 --> 02:01:46.920 this site, for where these tools were found. And yeah, 2421 02:01:46.939 --> 02:01:50.180 and so they tried to publish this and they received 2422 02:01:50.199 --> 02:01:52.939 like immense pushback because obviously this was the time of 2423 02:01:52.979 --> 02:01:57.479 the Clovis first paradigm. And, you know, people weren't ready 2424 02:01:57.520 --> 02:02:00.319 for Clovis to be broken, let alone by such a 2425 02:02:00.430 --> 02:02:03.369 huge margin, like hundreds and hundreds of thousands of years old. 2426 02:02:03.409 --> 02:02:06.489 And they couldn't publish for like 20 years. And by 2427 02:02:06.529 --> 02:02:09.359 that time, many of the artifacts had gone missing and 2428 02:02:10.100 --> 02:02:12.840 they didn't know where they were and the site actually 2429 02:02:12.880 --> 02:02:16.520 got raised, like it got kind of removed. And I'm 2430 02:02:16.539 --> 02:02:18.539 not trying to say that's like some conspiracy or anything, 2431 02:02:18.579 --> 02:02:20.970 but it just means that you can't really prove it. 2432 02:02:21.000 --> 02:02:23.880 But they did eventually publish and the geologists have always 2433 02:02:23.899 --> 02:02:25.960 stuck by this date and there's multiple lines of evidence 2434 02:02:26.010 --> 02:02:29.510 that suggests that the tools were found below this layer 2435 02:02:29.710 --> 02:02:34.470 of roughly 250,000 years old. And that's obviously like hugely 2436 02:02:34.550 --> 02:02:36.470 older than we think humans have been in the Americas. 2437 02:02:36.510 --> 02:02:40.539 So It's a very interesting site. I want to give 2438 02:02:40.560 --> 02:02:42.779 a shout out to Will Brown, who's got a channel 2439 02:02:42.800 --> 02:02:44.899 called Incredible History. He's actually been to the site and 2440 02:02:44.939 --> 02:02:47.010 he kind of like nudged me in the direction of 2441 02:02:47.029 --> 02:02:50.949 looking into this one. He's got a great channel. But yeah, 2442 02:02:51.050 --> 02:02:53.869 it's super interesting because we can't prove it because the 2443 02:02:54.029 --> 02:02:57.069 tools have gone missing. The site no longer exists, but 2444 02:02:57.670 --> 02:03:01.250 there's a paper out there written by serious scientists saying that, 2445 02:03:01.789 --> 02:03:03.489 you know, there could be human presence in the Americas. 2446 02:03:04.539 --> 02:03:07.659 over 200,000 years ago, potentially even older than that. And 2447 02:03:07.699 --> 02:03:11.560 that would just radically change our understanding of humans in America. 2448 02:03:11.619 --> 02:03:13.319 So then when you put all these sites together, so 2449 02:03:13.340 --> 02:03:16.239 obviously White Sands is the earliest at 22,000. But then 2450 02:03:16.279 --> 02:03:18.970 when you add that to Chicoete Cave, as I mentioned earlier, 33,000. 2451 02:03:18.970 --> 02:03:21.050 Pedra Furada in Brazil, over 50,000. Cerruti Mastodon, 130,000. I 2452 02:03:21.050 --> 02:03:21.989 don't really think Calico is. 2453 02:03:28.560 --> 02:03:31.380 I think that's natural. But then we had Larko at 250,000. 2454 02:03:31.380 --> 02:03:33.300 You know, it only takes one of them to be 2455 02:03:33.359 --> 02:03:35.760 right for our understanding of when humans reached America to 2456 02:03:36.279 --> 02:03:39.560 radically shift. And I think it's only logical that humans 2457 02:03:39.600 --> 02:03:42.590 were in America a lot longer than we think. Because, 2458 02:03:43.109 --> 02:03:44.710 you know, when we're talking about the vast span of 2459 02:03:44.770 --> 02:03:47.390 time that we've been on this planet, why couldn't we 2460 02:03:47.430 --> 02:03:48.649 have reached these places? 2461 02:03:48.989 --> 02:03:49.130 Right. 2462 02:03:49.149 --> 02:03:51.069 And then the question is, how did we reach them? 2463 02:03:51.329 --> 02:03:56.619 And from where? You know, from where? Exactly. That's the 2464 02:03:56.640 --> 02:03:59.470 weird thing is some of the When you look at 2465 02:03:59.810 --> 02:04:03.539 like pyramid structures, for instance, like where did that idea 2466 02:04:03.600 --> 02:04:06.159 come from? How did that idea make it to the Aztecs? 2467 02:04:07.060 --> 02:04:08.359 All over the world we find pyramids. 2468 02:04:08.920 --> 02:04:10.000 Weird. It is weird. 2469 02:04:10.899 --> 02:04:12.220 I mean you could say that it's just like a 2470 02:04:13.060 --> 02:04:17.069 logical way of building things, but maybe. Who knows? 2471 02:04:17.430 --> 02:04:19.069 Well, there's also the weirdness in the fact that the 2472 02:04:19.170 --> 02:04:21.170 Aztecs themselves didn't build the pyramids. 2473 02:04:22.460 --> 02:04:23.119 Oh, with some of them. 2474 02:04:23.159 --> 02:04:23.439 Yeah. 2475 02:04:23.479 --> 02:04:27.270 Like, uh, Teotihuacan was there before and they said it was, 2476 02:04:27.689 --> 02:04:30.729 the name literally means place where the gods lived and 2477 02:04:30.770 --> 02:04:34.250 they found it there. And, uh, so it was before 2478 02:04:34.289 --> 02:04:35.630 them and they don't know who built it. 2479 02:04:35.930 --> 02:04:36.130 Right. 2480 02:04:36.449 --> 02:04:37.770 They give us lots of our names. They get, they 2481 02:04:37.810 --> 02:04:41.689 gave us the name Olmec. Olmec means, uh, the rubber people, uh, 2482 02:04:41.729 --> 02:04:43.689 because they knew about the Olmecs. They knew they existed 2483 02:04:43.729 --> 02:04:45.640 before them, but they didn't know, really know who they were, 2484 02:04:45.689 --> 02:04:47.079 but they just called them the rubber people. 2485 02:04:47.619 --> 02:04:49.319 Is it because they lived around rubber trees? 2486 02:04:49.949 --> 02:04:51.989 I think it's because they use rubber or something. I'm 2487 02:04:52.109 --> 02:04:53.250 not 100% sure. 2488 02:04:54.069 --> 02:04:58.470 So what's the conventional theory about who built these Aztec temples? 2489 02:04:59.710 --> 02:05:02.189 I think the theory is that it was a culture 2490 02:05:02.270 --> 02:05:06.159 that came just before the Aztecs that we don't have 2491 02:05:06.199 --> 02:05:09.520 a name for. But they don't know. 2492 02:05:09.539 --> 02:05:11.760 Imagine you don't know anything about them. You don't have 2493 02:05:11.800 --> 02:05:17.359 a name for them. But they made insanely sophisticated architecture 2494 02:05:17.659 --> 02:05:18.180 with stone. 2495 02:05:18.199 --> 02:05:18.680 Mm-hmm. 2496 02:05:19.140 --> 02:05:20.260 That mirrored the cosmos. 2497 02:05:20.560 --> 02:05:22.460 Yeah, no one knows who built the Pyramid of the Sun. 2498 02:05:22.479 --> 02:05:24.939 I think that's what it's called at Teotihuacan. But it's 2499 02:05:25.039 --> 02:05:28.340 ginormous and it's incredible. And there's all these different layers 2500 02:05:28.380 --> 02:05:31.300 to it and incredibly sophisticated. But we don't know who 2501 02:05:31.319 --> 02:05:33.260 built it. We don't really know when they built it. 2502 02:05:33.279 --> 02:05:34.880 I mean, we think we know kind of the region, 2503 02:05:34.920 --> 02:05:38.979 but we don't know. As is the case with so 2504 02:05:39.020 --> 02:05:40.279 much of this stuff, we do not know. 2505 02:05:40.600 --> 02:05:42.319 Is there a conventional timeline? 2506 02:05:43.460 --> 02:05:44.279 For Teotihuacan? 2507 02:05:44.319 --> 02:05:48.369 Yeah. And what are they basing it on? If they 2508 02:05:48.409 --> 02:05:50.550 think it came right before the Aztecs? Because I had 2509 02:05:50.609 --> 02:05:54.140 read as long as 1,000 years before them. Yeah. 2510 02:05:54.159 --> 02:05:55.579 I mean that's kind of what I mean by right 2511 02:05:55.600 --> 02:05:57.760 before because I'm thinking in these big– That's a long time. 2512 02:05:57.880 --> 02:05:58.859 It's a long time, yeah. 2513 02:05:58.880 --> 02:06:01.079 The United States is not even 300 years old. 2514 02:06:01.260 --> 02:06:01.560 Yeah, yeah. 2515 02:06:01.699 --> 02:06:04.859 Yeah, of course. But yeah, what I'm trying to say 2516 02:06:04.899 --> 02:06:06.859 is I don't think it's like way, way, way old. 2517 02:06:06.899 --> 02:06:10.710 Right, right, right, right. So somewhere around 1,000 years before. 2518 02:06:11.029 --> 02:06:12.789 But that's the thing. It's like how many of these 2519 02:06:12.869 --> 02:06:16.649 things happened where there was some sort of a civilization 2520 02:06:16.829 --> 02:06:19.619 and then it collapsed? and then new people came along. 2521 02:06:21.560 --> 02:06:24.060 The idea that you would have a civilization that was 2522 02:06:24.119 --> 02:06:28.189 capable of building something as fantastic as some of those 2523 02:06:28.329 --> 02:06:31.609 Aztec constructions, and then they would just go away. 2524 02:06:31.930 --> 02:06:34.250 We just lost all memory of it, all memory of it. 2525 02:06:34.310 --> 02:06:36.430 And then people just wandered up there one day, the Aztecs, 2526 02:06:36.510 --> 02:06:38.689 and they're like, whoa, what is this? 2527 02:06:38.710 --> 02:06:41.810 And it was probably covered with jungle, right? 2528 02:06:42.760 --> 02:06:42.989 Yeah. 2529 02:06:43.640 --> 02:06:45.880 I mean, how many of those things were just absorbed? 2530 02:06:46.710 --> 02:06:50.689 by you know the just the just nature and. 2531 02:06:50.649 --> 02:06:52.569 It's no wonder that they think it was built by 2532 02:06:52.630 --> 02:06:54.489 gods right because you see it and you're like that 2533 02:06:54.529 --> 02:06:56.899 is incredible who built this it must have been the 2534 02:06:56.939 --> 02:07:00.920 gods and there's no one living in it mark and 2535 02:07:00.960 --> 02:07:03.819 just so it shows how easily human civilizations can reach 2536 02:07:03.880 --> 02:07:06.859 a really high peak level of sophistication and then go 2537 02:07:06.899 --> 02:07:09.050 down again and collapse and just all memory of them is. 2538 02:07:09.010 --> 02:07:14.470 Gone yeah um any other cool things you've discovered recently Well. 2539 02:07:14.489 --> 02:07:16.710 There's also the question of when humans reached Australia, which 2540 02:07:16.729 --> 02:07:19.510 I think is another really interesting question because the conventional 2541 02:07:19.529 --> 02:07:23.310 time is 65,000 years ago. And there's a site called 2542 02:07:23.350 --> 02:07:26.340 Majed Bebe in Northern Australia. And that's the earliest accepted 2543 02:07:26.899 --> 02:07:28.489 site in Australia. And that's right in the north of 2544 02:07:28.520 --> 02:07:31.220 the country. And it makes sense because you have to 2545 02:07:31.739 --> 02:07:33.819 cross water to get to Australia. You have to build 2546 02:07:33.859 --> 02:07:37.000 boats and cross water. But there's another really interesting site 2547 02:07:37.039 --> 02:07:42.060 that's right in the south of Australia where archaeologists found... 2548 02:07:43.439 --> 02:07:47.539 Blackened stones again and charcoal and hearth-like structures. And they 2549 02:07:47.579 --> 02:07:52.170 dated this site to 120,000 years ago, which is double, 2550 02:07:52.630 --> 02:07:54.609 just about double the time that we think humans were 2551 02:07:54.630 --> 02:07:56.810 in Australia. And it's in the very south of the country. 2552 02:07:57.350 --> 02:08:01.119 And the archaeologists that are working there actually wrote in 2553 02:08:01.159 --> 02:08:04.960 their paper that the evidence supports a cultural origin over 2554 02:08:04.979 --> 02:08:07.939 a natural origin so they think that it's cultural as 2555 02:08:08.000 --> 02:08:11.399 in human rather than natural but they can't prove it 2556 02:08:11.460 --> 02:08:16.109 because there's no associated artifacts and no associated skeletons but 2557 02:08:16.369 --> 02:08:19.340 they think that it it kind of leans towards being 2558 02:08:19.399 --> 02:08:24.109 a cultural origin. And obviously if that's correct, that means 2559 02:08:24.170 --> 02:08:26.810 human beings were only in Australia twice as long as 2560 02:08:26.850 --> 02:08:29.590 we thought, but also had inhabited the entire continent or 2561 02:08:29.609 --> 02:08:32.970 not inhabited, but had gone through the entire continent right 2562 02:08:32.989 --> 02:08:35.609 down to the very south of the country, twice as 2563 02:08:35.689 --> 02:08:37.649 old as we thought. And it's just another thing that's 2564 02:08:37.670 --> 02:08:39.770 like pushing it older and older and older. And it's 2565 02:08:39.789 --> 02:08:42.579 not accepted, but it's so hard to prove these things 2566 02:08:42.659 --> 02:08:46.140 because we can't find skeletons or we can find skeletons, 2567 02:08:46.159 --> 02:08:49.050 but it's extremely rare. So The bar is so high 2568 02:08:49.670 --> 02:08:55.289 for proof, but this site called Moygill 120,000 years ago is, 2569 02:08:55.510 --> 02:08:58.890 I think, very strong suggestive evidence that human beings have 2570 02:08:58.909 --> 02:09:01.489 been in Australia twice as long as we think. And 2571 02:09:01.529 --> 02:09:03.090 obviously that means that they had to have got there 2572 02:09:03.109 --> 02:09:06.960 by boat. And yeah. That's another interesting one. 2573 02:09:06.979 --> 02:09:11.689 Wasn't there something that was done on the genetic connection 2574 02:09:11.819 --> 02:09:16.890 between Australian Aboriginal people and Denisovans? 2575 02:09:16.949 --> 02:09:19.949 Yeah, yeah. They think that maybe there was different migration 2576 02:09:20.329 --> 02:09:23.550 pathways and different human species potentially also reached Australia. And 2577 02:09:23.649 --> 02:09:25.130 it's not that wild because if you think back to 2578 02:09:25.189 --> 02:09:27.850 the seafaring thing we were talking about earlier, if people 2579 02:09:27.890 --> 02:09:30.140 were reaching islands over a million years ago, then why 2580 02:09:30.180 --> 02:09:32.520 couldn't they have reached Australia much earlier than we think? 2581 02:09:32.819 --> 02:09:35.000 Yeah. Because if we had that capability for so long, 2582 02:09:36.079 --> 02:09:40.560 Why not? When they do this, is this– I mean 2583 02:09:40.760 --> 02:09:44.659 because obviously they didn't even know about Denisovans until 2010. 2584 02:09:44.659 --> 02:09:50.319 So is this like genetic analysis? And if so, like 2585 02:09:50.880 --> 02:09:54.550 do they have genes? Like how do they get genetic 2586 02:09:55.229 --> 02:09:58.770 material from these Denisovan skeletons? I think you can take 2587 02:09:58.850 --> 02:10:02.180 it from– Like a tooth or something? I'm not quite sure, 2588 02:10:02.220 --> 02:10:03.649 but I think you can. I think they know the 2589 02:10:03.659 --> 02:10:07.550 kind of genetic makeup of the different human species. So 2590 02:10:07.569 --> 02:10:09.229 I think you can tell that way if you've got, like, 2591 02:10:09.250 --> 02:10:11.510 a trace of the DNA. Yeah, that's what I was saying. Like, 2592 02:10:11.770 --> 02:10:16.090 if it's fossilized, do they have actual DNA from Denisovans? 2593 02:10:16.569 --> 02:10:20.539 And if they do, like, how are they guessing that people, 2594 02:10:21.279 --> 02:10:25.140 Aboriginal people in Australia, have some traces of it? Just 2595 02:10:25.159 --> 02:10:27.159 like Europeans have traces of Neanderthal. 2596 02:10:27.420 --> 02:10:28.560 Yeah. And also people in. 2597 02:10:30.350 --> 02:10:32.729 I think like Nepal and these high-altitude places, they have 2598 02:10:32.789 --> 02:10:36.050 quite high traces of Denisovan DNA, and that's what they 2599 02:10:36.109 --> 02:10:38.800 think allows them to live in high-altitude environments. They think 2600 02:10:38.840 --> 02:10:42.880 that Denisovans are more robust than modern humans and can 2601 02:10:42.899 --> 02:10:45.899 live in more extreme environments. And they think that people 2602 02:10:45.939 --> 02:10:48.880 that live in those kind of high-altitude regions of the 2603 02:10:48.899 --> 02:10:52.729 Himalayas and stuff have that kind of gene, if you like. 2604 02:10:52.750 --> 02:10:55.130 I'm not sure that's the science behind it, but they 2605 02:10:55.149 --> 02:10:57.250 think they have the traces of that, and that's what 2606 02:10:57.270 --> 02:10:59.640 allows them to live in these more isolated places. high 2607 02:10:59.659 --> 02:11:00.399 altitude environments. 2608 02:11:00.760 --> 02:11:03.779 So they think Denisovans lived in high altitude, mostly? 2609 02:11:04.039 --> 02:11:04.300 Maybe. 2610 02:11:04.460 --> 02:11:08.739 They don't know. Well, there's only a few bones, right? Exactly. 2611 02:11:08.760 --> 02:11:09.659 So it's really hard to tell. 2612 02:11:10.239 --> 02:11:11.859 So fucking interesting, man. 2613 02:11:12.439 --> 02:11:16.630 And also in that region, they found recently the oldest 2614 02:11:16.710 --> 02:11:19.149 evidence of advanced surgery, which is like way older than 2615 02:11:19.170 --> 02:11:21.710 we think. It's like 31,000 years ago. They found some 2616 02:11:21.729 --> 02:11:25.449 surgery in Borneo, which is again in this same region. 2617 02:11:25.510 --> 02:11:28.420 I think Indonesia is such a fascinating region because It's 2618 02:11:28.439 --> 02:11:30.739 the place of where the Sunda Shelf was, where obviously 2619 02:11:30.760 --> 02:11:34.529 the sea level's risen, have covered a huge expanse of 2620 02:11:34.569 --> 02:11:37.149 land that used to be land, but now no longer is. 2621 02:11:37.210 --> 02:11:40.229 And so many interesting discoveries here. But yeah, this surgery 2622 02:11:40.250 --> 02:11:45.010 thing is, they found the skeleton of a child that 2623 02:11:45.090 --> 02:11:50.609 had had his leg amputated, but had lived for many, many, many, 2624 02:11:50.649 --> 02:11:53.979 many years afterwards. And his whole lower leg had been 2625 02:11:54.750 --> 02:11:57.550 amputated off and but like healed like completely and he 2626 02:11:57.590 --> 02:11:59.350 lived like or she i think as a girl lived 2627 02:11:59.409 --> 02:12:02.409 like a lot longer after that and obviously that's quite 2628 02:12:02.430 --> 02:12:04.750 an advanced thing to to do right because you have 2629 02:12:04.789 --> 02:12:08.229 to understand how to prevent infection you have to it's 2630 02:12:08.250 --> 02:12:09.989 a very humid place as well so it's very hard 2631 02:12:10.029 --> 02:12:12.500 to survive probably was very painful for that individual but 2632 02:12:12.800 --> 02:12:16.340 this pushed back our understanding of surgery by like 20 2633 02:12:16.340 --> 02:12:18.779 000 no maybe not quite that long i can't remember 2634 02:12:18.859 --> 02:12:20.399 i think it was like 7 000 years ago so 2635 02:12:20.420 --> 02:12:21.930 yeah by a long way because this is 31 000 2636 02:12:21.920 --> 02:12:24.920 years ago So again, it's showing prehistoric humans to be 2637 02:12:24.960 --> 02:12:29.079 far more sophisticated than we think. They were performing surgery 31,000 2638 02:12:29.079 --> 02:12:32.399 years ago and surviving and living for years afterwards. 2639 02:12:32.619 --> 02:12:36.590 That is insane. I wonder if they had any pharmacological 2640 02:12:37.229 --> 02:12:39.729 interventions to deal with the pain. 2641 02:12:39.970 --> 02:12:41.649 Well, I think they would have used wild plants because 2642 02:12:41.670 --> 02:12:44.029 we've got so much evidence now of other human species 2643 02:12:44.270 --> 02:12:49.810 and our human species using wild plants to– For medicinal purposes. 2644 02:12:49.909 --> 02:12:50.170 Right. 2645 02:12:50.380 --> 02:12:52.840 We see Neanderthals doing that a long, long time ago, 2646 02:12:52.939 --> 02:12:55.979 like cultivating wild plants and using them as painkillers and 2647 02:12:56.020 --> 02:12:56.779 stuff like that. 2648 02:12:57.159 --> 02:12:59.979 What's going to kill the pain of a fucking amputation? 2649 02:13:00.039 --> 02:13:00.939 Well, probably not much. 2650 02:13:01.140 --> 02:13:02.619 Of a bone saw. I know. 2651 02:13:02.659 --> 02:13:02.819 Right? 2652 02:13:04.470 --> 02:13:06.569 And they're like, what kind of tools do they have? Like, 2653 02:13:06.609 --> 02:13:09.050 what were they doing it with? How did they stitch 2654 02:13:09.149 --> 02:13:11.939 people up? Did they have needles? Did they have thread? 2655 02:13:11.949 --> 02:13:13.979 Did they just leave the wound open? Like, what did 2656 02:13:13.989 --> 02:13:14.380 they do? 2657 02:13:14.680 --> 02:13:17.159 But whatever they did, it worked. And they were sophisticated 2658 02:13:17.199 --> 02:13:19.800 enough to keep that person alive and to care for 2659 02:13:19.819 --> 02:13:22.520 them and for them to live years afterwards. Excuse me. 2660 02:13:23.640 --> 02:13:24.460 It's wild. It's wild. 2661 02:13:25.180 --> 02:13:27.659 So it's yet more evidence of people being super sophisticated 2662 02:13:27.699 --> 02:13:29.680 so much longer in time than we thought. And it 2663 02:13:29.760 --> 02:13:32.439 all points in one direction, man, which is humans have 2664 02:13:32.460 --> 02:13:34.699 been here longer. They've been more intelligent than we thought 2665 02:13:34.840 --> 02:13:35.619 for a long, long time. 2666 02:13:36.619 --> 02:13:38.720 If you had to guess, what do you think is 2667 02:13:38.760 --> 02:13:45.250 the oldest... real true civilization how long when do you 2668 02:13:45.270 --> 02:13:46.409 think it started. 2669 02:13:46.949 --> 02:13:49.189 So i think in terms of like what we call 2670 02:13:49.229 --> 02:13:52.720 civilization in terms of our current like cycle of it 2671 02:13:52.770 --> 02:13:55.729 if you like i think it is and whatever came 2672 02:13:55.770 --> 02:13:57.640 before that but i don't think it would probably been 2673 02:13:57.659 --> 02:14:00.699 that far further before that but i think that from 2674 02:14:00.739 --> 02:14:02.359 the onset of the holocene i think we basically started 2675 02:14:02.399 --> 02:14:06.939 right away all over the globe and you know develop 2676 02:14:06.960 --> 02:14:09.920 civilization because it happens everywhere right back to question one 2677 02:14:10.180 --> 02:14:11.680 why did it happen everywhere all over the time because 2678 02:14:11.720 --> 02:14:13.720 i think that's what humans do i think once we 2679 02:14:13.760 --> 02:14:17.979 get a stable period of climate we we innovate because 2680 02:14:18.319 --> 02:14:21.560 agriculture and civilization can't have been a very hard invention 2681 02:14:22.239 --> 02:14:26.460 to do because everyone did it it happened everywhere all 2682 02:14:26.500 --> 02:14:28.380 over the world so it's not like a really unique 2683 02:14:28.420 --> 02:14:31.439 hard thing to do because people did it everywhere so 2684 02:14:31.460 --> 02:14:33.020 that makes me think of what about all the other 2685 02:14:33.199 --> 02:14:35.020 periods of stable climate that we've had and now that 2686 02:14:35.050 --> 02:14:36.649 we know that human beings have been around for so 2687 02:14:36.689 --> 02:14:39.979 long we've had It's something like four stable warm periods 2688 02:14:40.260 --> 02:14:44.180 in the time that we have modern sapient fossils, so 300,000 years. 2689 02:14:44.539 --> 02:14:47.119 But then if you extrapolate that out to this million 2690 02:14:47.140 --> 02:14:50.619 year timescale of modern sized brains and modern behavior with 2691 02:14:50.649 --> 02:14:54.350 the seafaring, it's something like 11 warm periods that we've 2692 02:14:54.390 --> 02:14:57.329 lived through of stable climate conditions that have lasted for 2693 02:14:57.869 --> 02:15:00.210 over 10,000 years. So you look at each of those 2694 02:15:00.250 --> 02:15:04.729 warm periods and you think, if agriculture and civilization isn't 2695 02:15:04.770 --> 02:15:09.029 that hard seismic of an invention to do, Why couldn't 2696 02:15:09.050 --> 02:15:11.430 it have happened in those previous warm periods, 11 of 2697 02:15:11.470 --> 02:15:13.470 them going back to a million years and possibly beyond? 2698 02:15:13.930 --> 02:15:18.770 There's also that very weird phenomenon when someone somewhere figures 2699 02:15:18.789 --> 02:15:22.189 something out. Even if people aren't connected, other places in 2700 02:15:22.220 --> 02:15:23.949 the world, people figure it out at the same time. 2701 02:15:24.760 --> 02:15:27.340 We know that to be the case today. Rupert Sheldrake 2702 02:15:27.380 --> 02:15:30.279 has a term for it. I think it's called– is 2703 02:15:30.319 --> 02:15:35.279 it morphic resonance? So his term is also based around 2704 02:15:35.359 --> 02:15:39.140 theories that they've done with rats and mazes. That if 2705 02:15:39.159 --> 02:15:41.560 you teach a rat a maze on the East Coast, 2706 02:15:41.659 --> 02:15:43.359 rats on the West Coast learn it quicker. 2707 02:15:43.850 --> 02:15:44.189 Really? 2708 02:15:44.430 --> 02:15:44.890 Yeah. 2709 02:15:46.069 --> 02:15:48.350 Yeah, he's got lots of interesting work, hasn't he? About 2710 02:15:48.409 --> 02:15:50.189 kind of almost telepathic. 2711 02:15:50.409 --> 02:15:54.449 Yeah, weird stuff. Yeah, very weird stuff. There's probably some 2712 02:15:54.529 --> 02:15:57.449 sort of Akashic record. There's probably some sort of shared 2713 02:15:57.649 --> 02:16:01.510 field of information that whether or not it's tangible and 2714 02:16:01.529 --> 02:16:04.020 you can write it down verbatim or whether or not 2715 02:16:04.060 --> 02:16:07.060 it's some sort of implied concepts and ideas that are 2716 02:16:07.159 --> 02:16:13.970 transmitted online. through the species that like creativity itself is 2717 02:16:14.029 --> 02:16:18.930 almost like something that we tap into like uniformly as 2718 02:16:18.970 --> 02:16:19.970 a species. 2719 02:16:19.770 --> 02:16:22.050 It's like you can like almost like we're in an antenna. 2720 02:16:21.670 --> 02:16:24.710 Yeah yeah and that like when michael button figures something 2721 02:16:24.729 --> 02:16:26.310 out someone on the other part of the world's like 2722 02:16:27.489 --> 02:16:30.979 oh i feel it yeah it's just very weird it's 2723 02:16:31.000 --> 02:16:34.840 a very weird idea yeah you know and it's It's 2724 02:16:34.879 --> 02:16:38.139 impossible to prove or– you can imply it. And the 2725 02:16:38.200 --> 02:16:40.260 rat thing is very interesting. I think they've done them 2726 02:16:40.379 --> 02:16:47.379 with some other things as well. So it's interesting because 2727 02:16:47.399 --> 02:16:49.760 like if that's not the case, then what do you have? 2728 02:16:49.799 --> 02:16:53.120 A seafaring civilization that travels the entire globe? Do you 2729 02:16:53.159 --> 02:16:57.680 have something that's so advanced they figured out how to 2730 02:16:57.719 --> 02:17:00.700 traverse continents and they're bringing all this information with them? 2731 02:17:01.049 --> 02:17:03.180 Is it one group? No, it seems like they all 2732 02:17:03.459 --> 02:17:05.959 kind of figure it out at the same time or roughly. 2733 02:17:06.540 --> 02:17:08.680 But it is pretty much the same time in comparison 2734 02:17:08.700 --> 02:17:10.500 to the amount of time that we've been on the planet, right? 2735 02:17:10.520 --> 02:17:11.399 It's not a coincidence. 2736 02:17:11.489 --> 02:17:13.809 It's an explosion. Exactly. Yeah. So why? 2737 02:17:13.829 --> 02:17:17.469 Because the reason given is the climate. That's the old reason. 2738 02:17:17.889 --> 02:17:19.590 But I think that is the reason because, you know, 2739 02:17:19.610 --> 02:17:22.469 the climate got warmer. So agriculture, civilization. And yeah, that 2740 02:17:22.510 --> 02:17:24.370 makes sense. But then why not before? Why not in 2741 02:17:24.930 --> 02:17:26.829 all of these 11 warm periods where humans have been 2742 02:17:26.870 --> 02:17:30.280 here and been smart? If it's such a common invention, 2743 02:17:30.319 --> 02:17:31.079 why didn't it happen before? 2744 02:17:31.540 --> 02:17:31.680 Right. 2745 02:17:31.719 --> 02:17:34.799 Maybe it did. Maybe it did. It's also interesting how 2746 02:17:34.829 --> 02:17:39.139 much stuff, like, if you think about the global temperature, like, 2747 02:17:39.360 --> 02:17:41.340 where is it always warm? Well, it's always warm around 2748 02:17:41.360 --> 02:17:44.809 the equator. It kind of always stays warm around there. And, well, 2749 02:17:44.850 --> 02:17:46.549 what's around there? Well, the Amazon. 2750 02:17:47.229 --> 02:17:47.989 Yeah, exactly. 2751 02:17:48.290 --> 02:17:50.899 And even in periods of, yeah, like... the fully glaciated 2752 02:17:50.940 --> 02:17:54.399 periods some places on the earth were perfectly habitable right 2753 02:17:54.760 --> 02:17:58.520 so who knows but then i mean and that goes 2754 02:17:58.559 --> 02:18:00.000 back into the like you say the amazon it goes 2755 02:18:00.040 --> 02:18:01.600 back into the question of how long have humans been 2756 02:18:01.620 --> 02:18:03.520 in america because if we've been in america and the 2757 02:18:03.559 --> 02:18:06.180 america's for a lot longer than we think then people 2758 02:18:06.200 --> 02:18:07.950 have been in the amazon a lot longer we think 2759 02:18:07.969 --> 02:18:09.530 and then you look at the discoveries in the amazon 2760 02:18:09.549 --> 02:18:12.780 and how there's been civilizations there a lot further back 2761 02:18:12.819 --> 02:18:15.340 in time than we thought. Well, how far back in time? Obviously, 2762 02:18:15.360 --> 02:18:17.870 the evidence we've seen so far doesn't point like crazy 2763 02:18:17.889 --> 02:18:19.549 back in time, but we don't know. 2764 02:18:19.969 --> 02:18:22.549 Well, there's so little evidence. That's the problem. I mean, 2765 02:18:22.569 --> 02:18:26.229 they're just recently discovering these grids, right? And so how 2766 02:18:26.270 --> 02:18:30.250 much archaeological work has been done on all these grids? Oh, yeah, exactly. 2767 02:18:30.270 --> 02:18:32.729 It's so hard. And also the rainforest is such like 2768 02:18:32.770 --> 02:18:36.700 an extreme recycling kind of natural machine that it's going 2769 02:18:36.719 --> 02:18:40.389 to destroy anything that's older than... than uh right a 2770 02:18:40.430 --> 02:18:41.180 few thousand years. 2771 02:18:41.079 --> 02:18:43.420 Ago so it doesn't mean there's not stuff that's older 2772 02:18:43.459 --> 02:18:45.059 than a few thousand years ago it just means there's 2773 02:18:45.079 --> 02:18:45.899 nothing left. 2774 02:18:46.340 --> 02:18:48.219 And they could have built in organic materials that have 2775 02:18:48.260 --> 02:18:51.399 just decayed and you would never see it and they 2776 02:18:51.459 --> 02:18:52.899 could have been done with doing that hundreds of thousands 2777 02:18:52.920 --> 02:18:56.489 of years ago and who knows so it's wild man 2778 02:18:56.670 --> 02:18:59.489 it's so wild i think there's the potential is all 2779 02:18:59.670 --> 02:19:03.049 enormous just absolutely enormous and that's why i do what 2780 02:19:03.069 --> 02:19:05.450 i do because i think it's so fascinating and i 2781 02:19:05.489 --> 02:19:08.760 love talking about it and i love uh getting other 2782 02:19:08.780 --> 02:19:10.920 people to think about it. And that's the great privilege 2783 02:19:10.979 --> 02:19:13.059 of me being able to do this job. 2784 02:19:13.639 --> 02:19:14.739 So, yeah. 2785 02:19:15.840 --> 02:19:19.870 Well, it's an important job. It really is. Because those videos, 2786 02:19:19.909 --> 02:19:22.709 although they are, you know, just YouTube and they're entertaining, 2787 02:19:23.290 --> 02:19:25.809 they're just, you know, something that anyone can digest. There's 2788 02:19:25.930 --> 02:19:29.829 so much valid, fascinating information on them and so many 2789 02:19:30.090 --> 02:19:34.280 valid questions that we really can't quite answer. And it 2790 02:19:34.500 --> 02:19:37.920 expands the, like, when people watch them you get this 2791 02:19:37.979 --> 02:19:42.079 understanding like oh wow this is a big puzzle this 2792 02:19:42.120 --> 02:19:44.299 this thing is really complicated like it's a lot more 2793 02:19:44.340 --> 02:19:48.510 complicated than we've been told especially by you know people 2794 02:19:48.549 --> 02:19:50.829 that want you to believe that they have they have 2795 02:19:50.850 --> 02:19:51.629 the answers. 2796 02:19:51.770 --> 02:19:53.469 Yeah that's why i just hate it i hate the 2797 02:19:53.489 --> 02:19:55.350 certainty that people talk about the past because i never 2798 02:19:55.370 --> 02:19:57.889 talk about with certainty i'm not saying this is necessarily 2799 02:19:57.930 --> 02:20:01.309 true i'm just saying you know possible possibilities everywhere so 2800 02:20:01.350 --> 02:20:05.219 many different possibilities And yeah, everything we seem to discover 2801 02:20:05.260 --> 02:20:07.659 pushes it in one direction that's older and more intelligent 2802 02:20:07.739 --> 02:20:11.469 back in time. And yeah, there's so many interesting things. 2803 02:20:12.829 --> 02:20:14.850 And we barely scratched the surface today. 2804 02:20:14.909 --> 02:20:17.649 I know. We could do this for days. Before we 2805 02:20:17.690 --> 02:20:20.209 wrap it up, though, is there any other really interesting 2806 02:20:20.309 --> 02:20:21.729 ones that you'd like to talk about? 2807 02:20:21.950 --> 02:20:24.709 Yeah, there was something interesting that came out in regards 2808 02:20:24.750 --> 02:20:27.690 to writing. There's a couple of interesting things regarding writing. 2809 02:20:27.719 --> 02:20:31.079 So obviously writing is the kind of marker of civilization. 2810 02:20:31.219 --> 02:20:34.090 Like writing began, civilization began. but we're starting to see 2811 02:20:34.149 --> 02:20:40.459 evidence of symbolic meaning being transmitted through symbolic notation, like 2812 02:20:40.700 --> 02:20:43.120 way back further in time than we believe. So obviously 2813 02:20:43.159 --> 02:20:46.500 the earliest writing is still thought to be about 4,000 2814 02:20:46.500 --> 02:20:49.159 BC with the ancient Mesopotamian cuneiform and stuff like that. 2815 02:20:49.719 --> 02:20:52.809 But as you mentioned, Irvin Finkel, the kind of idea 2816 02:20:52.940 --> 02:20:56.370 regarding Tashdapella having a similar thing, and that's 12,000 years ago, 2817 02:20:56.649 --> 02:21:00.069 but there's much, much older evidence of humans conveying information 2818 02:21:00.090 --> 02:21:06.280 in a symbolic fashion. So there's... An archaeologist called Genevieve 2819 02:21:06.340 --> 02:21:08.819 von Petzinger, I believe she's called, and she found evidence 2820 02:21:08.860 --> 02:21:12.360 that on all these Ice Age paintings that we find 2821 02:21:12.399 --> 02:21:15.340 in Europe with all these incredible like bulls and bison 2822 02:21:15.379 --> 02:21:17.280 and stuff, and you've probably seen them, but next to 2823 02:21:17.340 --> 02:21:19.719 them is like this kind of symbol of notation that 2824 02:21:19.760 --> 02:21:24.170 people have kind of overlooked for years. But she found 2825 02:21:24.170 --> 02:21:28.729 32 recurring signs across a period of 30,000 years all 2826 02:21:28.790 --> 02:21:32.370 across the continent. And these signs, she thinks, are like a, 2827 02:21:32.549 --> 02:21:34.909 not a language as such, but a kind of a 2828 02:21:34.969 --> 02:21:37.090 system of encoding meaning. Yeah, there you go. 2829 02:21:37.170 --> 02:21:37.709 They're the signs. 2830 02:21:38.670 --> 02:21:41.510 And she kind of makes the argument that these signs 2831 02:21:41.659 --> 02:21:45.959 are not a language as such, but a kind of 2832 02:21:46.000 --> 02:21:51.799 tradition of conveying information that lasted for 30,000 years. And 2833 02:21:51.819 --> 02:21:53.719 that is such a long length of time. Like if 2834 02:21:53.739 --> 02:21:56.870 you think about the oldest language Today, I think it's 2835 02:21:56.969 --> 02:21:59.149 ancient Chinese and that's only a few thousand years old. 2836 02:21:59.450 --> 02:22:02.010 And yet these signs appear all across the continent of 2837 02:22:02.129 --> 02:22:06.370 Europe across a time span of 30,000 years. Pretty much 2838 02:22:06.430 --> 02:22:09.110 exactly the same and just these signs. And they also 2839 02:22:09.170 --> 02:22:11.950 find them in other continents as well. And she doesn't 2840 02:22:12.290 --> 02:22:14.370 say there's any connection there. I'm not sure there is 2841 02:22:14.409 --> 02:22:15.110 any connection there. 2842 02:22:15.739 --> 02:22:20.079 The spirals are really weird. They find spirals all over 2843 02:22:20.100 --> 02:22:20.780 the place, right? 2844 02:22:21.120 --> 02:22:21.340 Yeah. 2845 02:22:22.100 --> 02:22:23.920 They find these signs all over the world. Jamie, you 2846 02:22:23.940 --> 02:22:24.850 might be able to find a. 2847 02:22:26.239 --> 02:22:27.020 All over the world. 2848 02:22:27.079 --> 02:22:28.860 Yeah, there's like a cool map where they kind of 2849 02:22:28.979 --> 02:22:31.200 point where it's found. If you scroll down a little 2850 02:22:31.239 --> 02:22:34.420 bit on the left, that one, yeah. 2851 02:22:35.600 --> 02:22:36.989 You see this. That's really blurry. 2852 02:22:40.149 --> 02:22:42.049 Yeah, once it loads. But it's all over the world. 2853 02:22:42.069 --> 02:22:42.510 There you go. 2854 02:22:42.750 --> 02:22:46.389 And it's the same signs. Wow. 2855 02:22:47.250 --> 02:22:52.030 That's crazy. So the same signs in Europe, North America, 2856 02:22:52.370 --> 02:22:59.110 Central Africa, South America. Southern Africa, Australia, Malaysia, East Africa, 2857 02:22:59.129 --> 02:23:04.520 New Guinea. Wow. Borneo, Myanmar. 2858 02:23:05.899 --> 02:23:08.879 And she thinks it's like a much older symbolic tradition 2859 02:23:08.920 --> 02:23:11.799 that humans have kind of carried with them in the 2860 02:23:11.879 --> 02:23:13.959 kind of migratory routes. And it actually goes back much 2861 02:23:14.200 --> 02:23:17.049 older than the Ice Age art date of like 40,000 years, 2862 02:23:17.069 --> 02:23:20.250 but actually comes from when humans first reached Europe out 2863 02:23:20.270 --> 02:23:22.930 of Africa and spreading across the world. And we've kind 2864 02:23:22.950 --> 02:23:26.920 of kept the same tradition of conveying information. And again, 2865 02:23:26.959 --> 02:23:30.819 this has massive implications for human intelligence, because even though 2866 02:23:30.840 --> 02:23:34.639 it's not a full language, the ability to convey information 2867 02:23:34.680 --> 02:23:38.219 in a symbolic way is a marker of really sophisticated intelligence. 2868 02:23:38.299 --> 02:23:41.049 And so it's another really interesting discovery that kind of 2869 02:23:41.069 --> 02:23:46.790 points towards intelligence. And also to maintain that tradition over 2870 02:23:46.809 --> 02:23:50.010 such a long length of time is really interesting, because 2871 02:23:50.030 --> 02:23:52.049 we don't really do that. As I say, the oldest 2872 02:23:52.090 --> 02:23:54.639 language is ancient chinese and it's only a few thousand 2873 02:23:54.659 --> 02:23:57.600 years old and yet these people somehow managed to pass 2874 02:23:57.639 --> 02:24:01.899 on this language quote-unquote for 30 000 years. 2875 02:24:02.700 --> 02:24:05.340 Have you ever heard anybody discuss the concept that human 2876 02:24:05.420 --> 02:24:09.149 beings might have had some sort of some sort of 2877 02:24:09.250 --> 02:24:15.290 telepathy that atrophied when we started using language and writing 2878 02:24:15.709 --> 02:24:17.170 and communicating with words. 2879 02:24:18.030 --> 02:24:21.129 What's really interesting is the human brain size has decreased 2880 02:24:21.530 --> 02:24:23.469 since Civilization began. 2881 02:24:23.489 --> 02:24:24.129 Uh-huh. 2882 02:24:24.790 --> 02:24:27.569 Which is strange. And it makes sense because if everything 2883 02:24:27.610 --> 02:24:30.209 was oral before, you need more of your brain to 2884 02:24:30.770 --> 02:24:33.000 hold all the information. But once you can kind of 2885 02:24:33.239 --> 02:24:38.719 outsource it to physical objects, you don't need so much brain, like, 2886 02:24:38.940 --> 02:24:39.979 size and space. 2887 02:24:40.219 --> 02:24:41.200 How much has it decreased? 2888 02:24:41.420 --> 02:24:42.899 I can't remember off the top of my head. But 2889 02:24:43.340 --> 02:24:45.389 I don't think that's even controversial. I think there's quite 2890 02:24:45.409 --> 02:24:47.909 a lot of evidence that the human brain size has 2891 02:24:47.969 --> 02:24:50.829 decreased a little bit in the last 10,000 years or whatever. 2892 02:24:51.250 --> 02:24:54.950 Well, what... Weren't like there was some ancient people that 2893 02:24:55.030 --> 02:24:57.969 thought writing was a bad idea and that you should 2894 02:24:58.469 --> 02:25:02.170 you should remember everything and that writing and writing things 2895 02:25:02.209 --> 02:25:04.010 down was actually going to degrade your memory. 2896 02:25:04.409 --> 02:25:07.629 Well, I think it certainly does, because you don't need 2897 02:25:07.690 --> 02:25:10.719 that brain like part of your brain anymore if you're 2898 02:25:10.739 --> 02:25:13.090 not memorizing all the information you have. It makes us 2899 02:25:13.129 --> 02:25:15.010 smarter as a whole, as a civilization. 2900 02:25:15.510 --> 02:25:18.239 And then if you extrapolate, so do hard drives. Exactly. 2901 02:25:18.299 --> 02:25:21.479 It's happening on an even bigger scale now with AI and. 2902 02:25:21.379 --> 02:25:24.600 Stuff like that. Yes, exactly. Same process, though. People talk 2903 02:25:24.620 --> 02:25:26.760 about chat GPT decreasing people's intelligence. 2904 02:25:26.780 --> 02:25:30.399 Well, because it outsources thinking itself, which is a crazy step. 2905 02:25:30.440 --> 02:25:33.510 And we're going to just go like a raisin. Exactly. 2906 02:25:33.690 --> 02:25:38.110 So, I mean, maybe we're regressing. But I think as 2907 02:25:38.149 --> 02:25:39.889 a civilization, we're learning more. 2908 02:25:40.190 --> 02:25:41.129 Yes, collectively. 2909 02:25:41.149 --> 02:25:42.069 But as the individual. 2910 02:25:42.510 --> 02:25:42.709 Right. 2911 02:25:42.770 --> 02:25:43.530 Maybe we're aggressive. 2912 02:25:43.850 --> 02:25:47.479 And our potential to learn and just to remember things. 2913 02:25:47.579 --> 02:25:49.379 Just from when I was a boy, I knew everybody's 2914 02:25:49.399 --> 02:25:49.819 phone number. 2915 02:25:50.180 --> 02:25:50.520 Yeah, yeah. 2916 02:25:50.680 --> 02:25:52.799 And now I know anybody's. I know like three people's 2917 02:25:52.819 --> 02:25:53.260 phone numbers. 2918 02:25:53.500 --> 02:25:54.860 Because we don't have to memorize anymore. 2919 02:25:55.000 --> 02:25:55.520 Exactly. 2920 02:25:55.549 --> 02:25:56.079 It's wild. 2921 02:25:56.450 --> 02:25:56.690 Yeah. 2922 02:25:57.290 --> 02:25:57.510 Yeah. 2923 02:25:57.909 --> 02:26:00.510 And there was also another paper that came out regarding language, 2924 02:26:00.889 --> 02:26:05.010 which is they found over 200 objects. And it's around 2925 02:26:05.030 --> 02:26:08.020 the same date, around 40,000 years ago. And they basically 2926 02:26:08.059 --> 02:26:10.540 found like a proto-writing script that had the same level 2927 02:26:10.559 --> 02:26:14.299 of complexity as the early Sumerian scripts from 3000 BC, 2928 02:26:14.340 --> 02:26:18.489 but from 40,000 years ago in Ice Age Europe. Again, 2929 02:26:18.530 --> 02:26:24.049 so it's like another kind of proto-language symbolic thinking and 2930 02:26:24.489 --> 02:26:27.090 conveying meaning through symbols. I don't know if, I can't 2931 02:26:27.209 --> 02:26:28.489 quite remember off the top of my head, Jamie, but 2932 02:26:28.770 --> 02:26:30.629 if you type in like, it was this year. So 2933 02:26:31.030 --> 02:26:37.059 if you type in P-N-A-S proto-writing script, 40 000 years 2934 02:26:37.120 --> 02:26:39.819 ago or something they found it like loads of like 2935 02:26:39.860 --> 02:26:41.940 symbols engraved on bones and they argued that it was 2936 02:26:41.979 --> 02:26:45.079 the same level of complexity as the early sumerian scripts 2937 02:26:45.120 --> 02:26:49.129 and again this was the marker of civilization 3000 bc 2938 02:26:49.950 --> 02:26:52.629 but now it's this capability is so much older now 2939 02:26:52.690 --> 02:26:54.389 because of these new discoveries yeah i. 2940 02:26:54.329 --> 02:26:56.750 Saw that it's really weird like when you're looking at 2941 02:26:56.790 --> 02:26:58.649 the writing like okay what are they like the little 2942 02:26:58.790 --> 02:27:01.510 scratches on the bones and clay and whatever it is 2943 02:27:02.239 --> 02:27:05.340 Like what are they conveying? Do we even understand what 2944 02:27:05.360 --> 02:27:07.969 they're conveying or just assume they're conveying something? 2945 02:27:09.110 --> 02:27:11.389 Well, I think they categorized it and they seem to 2946 02:27:11.430 --> 02:27:13.129 think it is a kind of proto-script. 2947 02:27:15.030 --> 02:27:17.799 Fucking weird, man. Like that's a script? 2948 02:27:19.120 --> 02:27:21.360 Well, yeah, like a proto-script. So like the kind of 2949 02:27:21.399 --> 02:27:22.659 thing that became language, but. 2950 02:27:23.100 --> 02:27:25.139 Right, so there had to be a precursor to language. 2951 02:27:25.319 --> 02:27:29.489 A written language. But if it existed 40,000 years ago, 2952 02:27:29.790 --> 02:27:31.909 it's so much older than we used to think this 2953 02:27:31.909 --> 02:27:32.969 capability emerged. 2954 02:27:32.969 --> 02:27:33.219 Yeah. 2955 02:27:33.219 --> 02:27:35.190 And what does that what does that kind of entail? 2956 02:27:35.329 --> 02:27:37.860 Can I see that again, Jamie, the images? How weird. 2957 02:27:39.340 --> 02:27:41.700 And so at the bottom, that looks a lot like cuneiform. 2958 02:27:41.739 --> 02:27:43.739 I think the, I think these ones are examples of 2959 02:27:43.760 --> 02:27:45.780 more advanced, but they're saying it's at the same level 2960 02:27:45.819 --> 02:27:48.219 as this, but 40,000 years. 2961 02:27:48.120 --> 02:27:56.209 Ago, which is vastly older than cuneiform. It's so interesting. 2962 02:27:56.290 --> 02:27:56.450 Okay. 2963 02:27:57.680 --> 02:27:59.760 I'm sure you've seen the, we talked about this yesterday 2964 02:27:59.780 --> 02:28:03.799 as well, the Italian guy who came up with this 2965 02:28:03.860 --> 02:28:09.549 concept of erosion dating. Oh, on the pyramids. Yeah. That's 2966 02:28:09.569 --> 02:28:11.969 another weird one. It was like at the high end, 2967 02:28:11.989 --> 02:28:14.530 he thinks it might be 20 plus thousand years old. 2968 02:28:14.709 --> 02:28:15.750 It's like, okay, what? 2969 02:28:16.069 --> 02:28:16.290 Yeah. 2970 02:28:16.889 --> 02:28:19.010 Yeah, because he compared the erosion. Because there was an 2971 02:28:19.049 --> 02:28:21.049 earthquake like 500 years ago that kind of shook all 2972 02:28:21.090 --> 02:28:21.989 these casing stones off. 2973 02:28:22.270 --> 02:28:22.370 Yeah. 2974 02:28:22.389 --> 02:28:25.760 And he compared the erosion. with the blocks that had 2975 02:28:25.780 --> 02:28:28.840 always been exposed, with the ones that had recently become exposed. And, yeah, 2976 02:28:28.879 --> 02:28:30.940 he got this date. I mean, I'd like to see 2977 02:28:30.979 --> 02:28:33.409 that method, like, tried and tested on sites we know 2978 02:28:33.420 --> 02:28:36.010 the age of and, you know, proven that way before 2979 02:28:36.049 --> 02:28:38.329 I take that too seriously. But, you know, it's interesting. 2980 02:28:39.569 --> 02:28:43.729 It's all interesting. Listen, your show is super interesting. I'm 2981 02:28:43.750 --> 02:28:46.030 so glad you're around. I'm so glad there's someone like 2982 02:28:46.069 --> 02:28:48.549 you that's willing to do that kind of work because, obviously, 2983 02:28:48.590 --> 02:28:51.739 Jamie and I are not going to do it. Not 2984 02:28:51.770 --> 02:28:54.319 this week. but we're super happy to have you in 2985 02:28:54.440 --> 02:28:57.020 anytime you've got some new stuff you want to talk about. 2986 02:28:57.079 --> 02:29:00.100 And I'm really excited that your channel just keeps growing 2987 02:29:00.440 --> 02:29:02.379 because it's really good, man. It could, you could really 2988 02:29:02.420 --> 02:29:04.219 tell you put in so much work and so much 2989 02:29:04.280 --> 02:29:07.739 effort and research and it's just excellent. It's super entertaining 2990 02:29:07.780 --> 02:29:08.840 and it's right up my alley. 2991 02:29:08.920 --> 02:29:10.370 So I appreciate it, Joe. 2992 02:29:10.520 --> 02:29:13.200 Thanks for being the fucking man. Thank you, man. 2993 02:29:13.229 --> 02:29:15.020 We'll straight back at you. And I really appreciate all 2994 02:29:15.049 --> 02:29:17.549 the support you've shown me. Like it doesn't go unnoticed, man. 2995 02:29:17.590 --> 02:29:21.190 Like it, it really means a lot. And, uh, Yeah, 2996 02:29:21.309 --> 02:29:22.930 if I could just do a little self-plug real quick. 2997 02:29:23.709 --> 02:29:26.350 I've got my channel, Michael Button, search it up, everyone, 2998 02:29:26.370 --> 02:29:28.790 and check me out. But also, I just started a 2999 02:29:28.829 --> 02:29:32.850 second channel called Patterns of History because I'm really interested in, 3000 02:29:33.389 --> 02:29:36.659 once we move into recorded history, it's really interesting to 3001 02:29:36.690 --> 02:29:38.819 see how when the silence lifts and we have these 3002 02:29:39.350 --> 02:29:42.680 ruins we can cross-check and these dates we can kind 3003 02:29:42.719 --> 02:29:46.079 of match to different civilizations. It's so interesting how civilizations 3004 02:29:46.459 --> 02:29:48.940 seem to follow the same patterns all over the world 3005 02:29:49.360 --> 02:29:53.239 of rise, collapse, fall, things like that and it applies 3006 02:29:53.299 --> 02:29:55.649 today i think we see the same patterns happening and 3007 02:29:56.000 --> 02:30:00.250 civilizations always think that they're more advanced and there we 3008 02:30:00.270 --> 02:30:03.510 go thanks and better than the ones before but right 3009 02:30:03.709 --> 02:30:05.610 i mean it's another fucking i could go on for 3010 02:30:05.629 --> 02:30:08.500 another three hours on that but it's so it's so 3011 02:30:08.540 --> 02:30:11.559 interesting how we see the same recurring patterns happen throughout 3012 02:30:11.620 --> 02:30:14.739 civilizations across recorded history as well so that's like another 3013 02:30:14.780 --> 02:30:17.399 little project that i'm i'm working on but i'm still 3014 02:30:17.520 --> 02:30:19.299 a I'm still going to go as hard as I 3015 02:30:19.319 --> 02:30:22.100 possibly can on the kind of archaeological lost history side 3016 02:30:22.120 --> 02:30:22.299 of things. 3017 02:30:22.319 --> 02:30:24.379 Well, it's beautiful that you have so much time to 3018 02:30:24.879 --> 02:30:26.700 do two different channels too. It's awesome. 3019 02:30:26.719 --> 02:30:27.860 Yeah, well, I'm trying my best. 3020 02:30:28.319 --> 02:30:31.729 Well, you're kicking ass, dude. Congratulations. It's awesome. Always great 3021 02:30:31.750 --> 02:30:34.469 to have you. Thank you for being here. One more time, 3022 02:30:34.549 --> 02:30:36.569 people want to see your channel. They want to find you. 3023 02:30:36.610 --> 02:30:38.549 What's the best place? I know you're on Spotify now 3024 02:30:38.610 --> 02:30:40.370 as well, right? So just audio? 3025 02:30:40.729 --> 02:30:41.690 Yeah, well, it's the videos as well. 3026 02:30:41.770 --> 02:30:42.430 The videos as well? 3027 02:30:42.569 --> 02:30:43.870 Yeah, I just put them up there so people can, 3028 02:30:44.010 --> 02:30:45.709 if people, some people prefer to listen, they let me 3029 02:30:45.729 --> 02:30:46.090 know that. 3030 02:30:46.129 --> 02:30:47.250 So I put it out there. Yeah. 3031 02:30:47.930 --> 02:30:49.469 So yeah, I've got both my channels. I'm also about 3032 02:30:49.489 --> 02:30:50.090 to make some music. 3033 02:30:50.690 --> 02:30:52.549 People should check out my music. Yeah. I'm in a band. 3034 02:30:52.590 --> 02:30:54.729 This is my band. Oh, that's the alien head. 3035 02:30:54.770 --> 02:30:55.969 That's why I keep wearing the alien head. 3036 02:30:55.989 --> 02:30:56.170 Yeah. 3037 02:30:56.629 --> 02:30:57.889 Oh, what's the name of your band? 3038 02:30:57.969 --> 02:30:58.670 We're called headache. 3039 02:30:59.010 --> 02:31:02.440 Uh, if people get it, it's like the headache. Yeah. 3040 02:31:02.959 --> 02:31:04.129 Um, so people want to check that out. 3041 02:31:04.139 --> 02:31:04.940 What kind of music? 3042 02:31:05.239 --> 02:31:05.620 Punk rock. 3043 02:31:06.239 --> 02:31:09.239 Oh, you're a fucking punk rocker. 3044 02:31:09.299 --> 02:31:10.340 I used to do that all the time. And then 3045 02:31:10.379 --> 02:31:12.059 COVID kind of fucked us up and we couldn't perform 3046 02:31:12.100 --> 02:31:15.250 live and our drummer moved to Australia. Um, But we're 3047 02:31:15.270 --> 02:31:16.829 going to try to make some music again in the 3048 02:31:16.899 --> 02:31:17.659 near future. 3049 02:31:17.940 --> 02:31:18.500 That's awesome. 3050 02:31:18.680 --> 02:31:22.079 This is Headache.com if people want to check that out. 3051 02:31:22.440 --> 02:31:25.469 Check it out. All right. Michael, thank you. Appreciate it, Joe. 3052 02:31:25.479 --> 02:31:25.780 Look at that. 3053 02:31:25.799 --> 02:31:26.559 There you go. 3054 02:31:26.579 --> 02:31:28.719 Get us on. Moody-looking motherfuckers. 3055 02:31:28.979 --> 02:31:29.500 Yeah, the boys. 3056 02:31:29.520 --> 02:31:32.079 Get your hair out of your eyes, bro. Can't see 3057 02:31:32.200 --> 02:31:34.120 you like that. 3058 02:31:34.200 --> 02:31:34.700 Bye, everybody.