Speaker 1: Welcome to my world.
Speaker 2: Bitch good.
Speaker 3: Here, that's right, listeners, we are here. I'm Jason Knight.
Speaker 1: And I'm Oscar Spector.
Speaker 3: And this is the one hundred and fifty ninth episode
Speaker 3: of the Supernatural Occurrent Studies podcast.
Speaker 1: So sluggishly paranormal.
Speaker 3: Another adjective, Happy Christmas season, my little Candy canes, very happy.
Speaker 3: Oscar's more peace. See, I'm a Christmas guy. Yeah, well,
Speaker 3: happy Christmas, my little Candy canes, my little Santa hats.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, so weird it out. I'm sitting with them, folks.
Speaker 3: I just makes it. It's Christmas and I'm saying all
Speaker 3: your Christmas Is things. But we have a fucked up
Speaker 3: episode tonight, Yeah we do. It's it's kind of ugly.
Speaker 3: But before we get into that, Oscar, we uh. Even
Speaker 3: though we're releasing this on December first, this is being
Speaker 3: recorded before Halloween.
Speaker 1: Yes, well before Halloween's a few weeks away. Still, that's
Speaker 1: right from our current stature.
Speaker 3: So echoes from the past.
Speaker 1: So I would say that when you listen to the show,
Speaker 1: we must have been happier people at the time.
Speaker 3: Why would you say, I don't know that it's gonna
Speaker 3: get worse. It does it just gets worse and w worse.
Speaker 1: You're listening to us and very happy old in times.
Speaker 3: So three months ago, happy old three months yes.
Speaker 1: Not even I guess no, but SI say though, Jay,
Speaker 1: I think I'm gonna try to perict the future with
Speaker 1: you and the future. So like we're in October, we're
Speaker 1: in October, we're time releasing this episode. When we listen
Speaker 1: to this next, it'll be released on air in December
Speaker 1: first for our listeners. Yes, I think by then there's
Speaker 1: a good chance you you're.
Speaker 3: Predicting my future. So you're predicting my future.
Speaker 1: I personally think you will be addicted to vicodin.
Speaker 3: Yes, I'm gonna come down with a prescription addiction.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I've been watching House lately also, wow,
Speaker 1: oh my god.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So that's my prediction for you. What do you think
Speaker 1: is that happened to me?
Speaker 3: I think you are going to stumble upon a designer
Speaker 3: drug really, and you are going to jump in feed
Speaker 3: first really and be addiction adduled.
Speaker 1: I don't do anything half asked.
Speaker 3: By January, I would hope.
Speaker 1: So that's my birthday month. It's my birthday month.
Speaker 3: I get all your New Year's baby, that's r yes, right, yes,
Speaker 3: you're gonna pick, You're gonna find it. A designer drug.
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, okay.
Speaker 3: Some take on on mes some new spin.
Speaker 1: What's that fence andyl? Is that designer drug? What's a
Speaker 1: designer drug?
Speaker 3: What does that mean?
Speaker 1: What makes a designer drug?
Speaker 3: Like you know in my day?
Speaker 4: Is it?
Speaker 1: Is it something pack it?
Speaker 3: That ecstasy that was malli like a.
Speaker 1: Designer I feel like a designer drug was a designer drug.
Speaker 1: What's popular with the young people? Is that what that is?
Speaker 3: I don't know, Like I feel like hearing at one
Speaker 3: time was a designer drug. Then it just you know,
Speaker 3: just started creating fighting zombies and right everything else. So
Speaker 3: that's that's just kind of a dirt bag drug now, Yeah,
Speaker 3: I guess just just the bottom of the barrel, fucking
Speaker 3: dirt bag drug. I don't know. Yeah, indeed, like your ecstasy,
Speaker 3: your molly, your.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess I never thought about looking about you know,
Speaker 1: the meaning of the cocaine.
Speaker 3: I'm sure still a designer drug. I don't know. I
Speaker 3: never got into drugs. It's one thing I never did.
Speaker 3: I would like the drug.
Speaker 1: I would like to upgrade my crack house to a
Speaker 1: cocaine house one.
Speaker 3: Day, dude, you gotta shoot for the stars.
Speaker 1: I'm trying.
Speaker 3: It's the holiday season.
Speaker 1: I'm trying.
Speaker 3: Miracles happen.
Speaker 1: I tell you about that one time I did try cocaine, right,
Speaker 1: didn't tell you about that time?
Speaker 3: I don't think so.
Speaker 1: For the first time ever, two years ago, I tried
Speaker 1: cocaine one that one day, one night only. It was
Speaker 1: like I tried it again?
Speaker 3: What was it like?
Speaker 1: It was good?
Speaker 3: I can see that.
Speaker 1: I can't see like I went to I went to
Speaker 1: not a rave but no an DM concert with a
Speaker 1: friend and she was like because we were like, She's like,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna bring something special. I don't know what it
Speaker 1: was gonna be. And she's like it's a little baggy.
Speaker 1: I'm like, is that fucking chalk powder? No? No, He's
Speaker 1: like no, it's like really and like, yes, we want
Speaker 1: to try it. I'm like yes, Oh my god, I
Speaker 1: said yes. With that hesitation.
Speaker 3: We got to put a disclaimer on this episode.
Speaker 1: It's fine, no one that you limiteddu is a long gune.
Speaker 1: The not in my system.
Speaker 3: But yeah, no, I'm worried about the children out there.
Speaker 1: That they're not listening to it. If they are, we
Speaker 1: say fucked up ship here we do so we do anyway.
Speaker 1: But I did try it and it was fun. I
Speaker 1: liked it. I had a few bumps. Got me going,
Speaker 1: I hate my hey, my throat though differently, which is
Speaker 1: I had to get used to that, the throat thing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know. I don't know how to feel
Speaker 3: right now.
Speaker 1: That's that's fine. It's just a drug. It's not like
Speaker 1: I'm into it.
Speaker 3: No, no, no, no, you're not into it for sure. You
Speaker 3: have to start stealing my fucking silverware? Are you thinking
Speaker 3: from your coke?
Speaker 1: I've seen your silverware. It's barely silver.
Speaker 3: Oh my lord, the revelations that come out on this show,
Speaker 3: I swear to God, Well, for a Christmas miracle, you're
Speaker 3: gonna you're gonna get hooked on some some designer drug
Speaker 3: and you updated to a cocaine.
Speaker 1: Just so you yeah, exactly, just so you all know.
Speaker 1: The concert was for Lady.
Speaker 3: De John, Lady Jon de Jon Mustard.
Speaker 1: YEA believe that was her.
Speaker 3: Nice all right. Well, since this is talking from the past,
Speaker 3: I don't have any news or any anything to talk
Speaker 3: about as far as catching up.
Speaker 1: I mean, because it will we know who got elected.
Speaker 3: Yeah, not yet.
Speaker 1: No, by that time the episode comes out for sure,
Speaker 1: as I'm saying, yeah, but.
Speaker 3: We can't talk about it now. No, But I mean
Speaker 3: I haven't idea who's going to get elected. I'm not
Speaker 3: going to talk about it.
Speaker 1: No, I'm not saying that. I guess either.
Speaker 3: Let's talk about these election These canvassers that do they
Speaker 3: come to your house all the time? No, multiple times
Speaker 3: a week people ring my doorbell. It's hooked up through
Speaker 3: ELECTSA and all this ship, so it rings like werewolves
Speaker 3: fucking throughout the house.
Speaker 1: That's Jesus Christ.
Speaker 3: So multiple times a week's.
Speaker 1: What kind of wearob like te teen wolf or like
Speaker 1: something old school.
Speaker 3: Out of from American wearl from London. So at times
Speaker 3: a week these people come to my house and they're like,
Speaker 3: are your plan to vote?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 3: I planned to vote who you're voting for? I remember
Speaker 3: a time, but back in my you didn't talk about
Speaker 3: this ship politics, You didn't who you're voting for.
Speaker 1: People didn't talk about money. But you don't ask people
Speaker 1: about money.
Speaker 3: I feel like that's still the same. People still don't
Speaker 3: like what you make of it.
Speaker 1: In general.
Speaker 3: I still consider that full pall. But yeah, politics, we
Speaker 3: never talked about it. Growing up. No that you just
Speaker 3: didn't talk. It's my business, not your business. So these
Speaker 3: people are always come to the house and they want an
Speaker 3: answer who am I voting for? And I always tell
Speaker 3: them I just well, I used to say Kennedy and
Speaker 3: you should see the fads to look on these people's faces,
Speaker 3: and then they would leave. Now I just tell them, dude,
Speaker 3: I don't talk about it, and they're like, okay, I
Speaker 3: respect that, and they walk away.
Speaker 1: Okay, get the fuck out of here. Yeah, I've had
Speaker 1: I have a couple of friends literally, just two that
Speaker 1: do canonsen, one in Ohio and one in Chicago or
Speaker 1: the outskirts of Chicago, and they tell me some they've
Speaker 1: been texting me lately about some interesting people.
Speaker 3: They meet, like you know, I'm sure, oh, I'm sure.
Speaker 1: People conflicted about this, so that or the way to
Speaker 1: talk about it is they find it interesting. And they're
Speaker 1: very blue people, by the way, as you can imagine
Speaker 1: being from Chicago. And uh yeah, they don't. They don't
Speaker 1: hassle me.
Speaker 3: Jay.
Speaker 1: For one reason is that not only do I live
Speaker 1: in an apartment, second floor type, but I have no doorbell,
Speaker 1: thank you, thank god. No one can bother me and
Speaker 1: as they know my fucking phone number, I'll keep bastard,
Speaker 1: so God damn riding. No one's gonna fucking hassle me,
Speaker 1: Lucky Lucky.
Speaker 3: All right, Well, should we get into this episode. Let's
Speaker 3: do it, Oscar. Could we take a break? Listeners, welcome
Speaker 3: back to the show. Well, the lights are turned down low,
Speaker 3: the ceremonial candle is lit, and the drinks are about
Speaker 3: to start flowing. Let's start this show. Okay, So, just
Speaker 3: like last episode.
Speaker 1: It's funny how just the drinks portion of that intro
Speaker 1: is actually right?
Speaker 3: Or two episodes ago? Would it be two episodes ago?
Speaker 3: When we I gave you to drink whiskey. As we
Speaker 3: podcast loosens up a bit, I gave you three bottles
Speaker 3: to choose from. Yeah, last time, and you chose the
Speaker 3: very old Saint Nick. This time, I kept two of
Speaker 3: those bottles and I introduced a new third bottle, which
Speaker 3: would you like me to open? Oscar. We have the
Speaker 3: Elijah Craig toast. This was one of your picks last time.
Speaker 3: Ninety four proof picked that up from the distillery. I
Speaker 3: have written house Rye bottled in bond, so it's one
Speaker 3: hundred proof. Also not not Kyle mitten House, Oscar, you're
Speaker 3: gonna get us canceled. Picked this up from the distillery too.
Speaker 3: That's bottled in Bond one hundred proof. I think I
Speaker 3: said that already. And the new one I introduced is
Speaker 3: a ten year Henry McKenna. This is also bib bottled
Speaker 3: in Bond. It was bottled in April fifth, twenty twelve,
Speaker 3: which one good, sir.
Speaker 1: So it's a twelve year not a ten year.
Speaker 3: Well nowadays, but it was bottle that ten years. They
Speaker 3: don't continue to age once they're in the bottle joke
Speaker 3: like last time, which would you like?
Speaker 1: Well, listeners, you guys don't know how the sausage is
Speaker 1: made with this particular kind of aspect of the show.
Speaker 1: But I'm gonna give you the choice. I'm gonna give
Speaker 1: you the answer. It's gonna be the Rye. It's gonna
Speaker 1: be the.
Speaker 3: Written House, the written House Rye. Yeah, good choice. I've
Speaker 3: really wanted to try this one.
Speaker 1: You don't say that's.
Speaker 3: Try okay, So I'm gonna open the sucker up.
Speaker 1: It's not like you told me I had time to
Speaker 1: pick this.
Speaker 3: I would never what tell me this is not a
Speaker 3: screw cap. I'll be really upset if this is a screwcap.
Speaker 1: It looks like it is from here.
Speaker 3: It certainly does, doesn't it. But oh, it's a screw cap.
Speaker 1: Really it loses respect, doesn't It.
Speaker 3: Really does lose a low respect. I like getting that
Speaker 3: first nose filled as soon as you crack that bottle. Yep,
Speaker 3: it's alcohol. I don't have that palette. I don't have that.
Speaker 4: No.
Speaker 3: I love bourbons and whiskeys. I just don't have the
Speaker 3: nose of the palette. It's kind of sad, actually, I
Speaker 3: have even less. It's a wonderful color.
Speaker 1: Oh, I do like the color, deep deep color.
Speaker 3: I don't know if there's an age statement on here anyway. Oh,
Speaker 3: it's bottled and bond. Okay, give me your glass. There, sir,
Speaker 3: is a mic picking that up it is. That's a
Speaker 3: nice sound right there.
Speaker 1: Well, okay, I can definitely tell us stronger.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that that very old saint nick. That wasn't even
Speaker 3: I don't think eighty seven proof. This is a hundred proof,
Speaker 3: so good, good solid hunch. Give her a little. Don't
Speaker 3: you taste it yet to tell me there's definitely some
Speaker 3: thing there's that's caramel for sure. M Okay, here we go.
Speaker 3: I'm gonna swirl it away.
Speaker 1: You smell camel?
Speaker 3: Really?
Speaker 4: Do?
Speaker 1: I smell like dead dreams? Wow?
Speaker 3: This is a Christmas episode for Christ's like, Oscar right now?
Speaker 1: It ain't.
Speaker 3: Yeah, man, carmel, it's not great. It smells gin. That's okay,
Speaker 3: spicy cinnamon for sure. Yeah, I guess you kind of like,
Speaker 3: all right, we got our whiskey mm hmm.
Speaker 1: And he's pouring in other glassbooks.
Speaker 3: Oh you're gonna hear that, but oh you won't hear
Speaker 3: the bottle because it's a fucking twist cap. Yeah, tonight, Oscar.
Speaker 3: We have one of those rare, few and far between
Speaker 3: kind of timely episodes. But we actually originally covered this
Speaker 3: topic back in twenty nineteen as one of our very
Speaker 3: first Patreon only shows. Now I decided to cover this
Speaker 3: topic again and expand on our original episode because recently
Speaker 3: it's seen a resurgence in popularity, or at least in curiosity,
Speaker 3: due to a Netflix movie called Woman of the Hour,
Speaker 3: which started streaming on October eighteenth, twenty twenty four. Now.
Speaker 3: Woman of the Hour is directed by my celebrity freebie,
Speaker 3: you know the celebrity.
Speaker 1: Oh my, I remember nats All coming back?
Speaker 3: Yes, the celebrity my wife says, I could you know
Speaker 3: I could sleep with if the opportunity ever arises. I
Speaker 3: think hers is Josh Hartnett. Anyway, Anna Kendrick. She directs
Speaker 3: the movie and she also stars in it. She plays
Speaker 3: a woman named Cheryl Bradshaw, an aspiring actress who in
Speaker 3: nineteen seventy eight picked a serial killer as her winner
Speaker 3: on a wildly popular game show called The Dating Game. Now,
Speaker 3: this serial killer and rapist in question is a man
Speaker 3: more like a goddamn animal named Rodney James Alcala, also
Speaker 3: known as the Dating Game killer Now. Al Kala was
Speaker 3: active between nineteen sixty eight and nineteen seventy nine, and
Speaker 3: he had a very peculiar mo since Rodney was considered
Speaker 3: good looking, tall fit, bright white, shark smile, tan skin, long,
Speaker 3: thick black hair, and he was incredibly smart and very smooth,
Speaker 3: and he was good with a camera. Rodney Alcalo would
Speaker 3: lull his victims into this false sense of security because
Speaker 3: he would pose as a successful fashion photographer. So here's
Speaker 3: this handsome for the nineteen seventies guy. He's an incredibly
Speaker 3: smooth talker, and he's got a camera, and he's a
Speaker 3: fashion photographer. He's harmless, so women open themselves up to him,
Speaker 3: totally clueless as to who the man behind the camera
Speaker 3: really was. And that was his m tricking women into
Speaker 3: getting them alone by posing as a photographer. Well that
Speaker 3: in rape and torture, he liked to strangle his victims
Speaker 3: to the point of death, then revive them again, only
Speaker 3: to do it again and again and again. He also
Speaker 3: loved to pose his victims' bodies to as a calla
Speaker 3: put it, defile the victims the best I can and death.
Speaker 3: This is a real fucking winner we're talking about this
Speaker 3: time had said that Rodney alcala is one of the
Speaker 3: most prolific serial killers in American history, and he's often
Speaker 3: likened to Ted Bundy. Just a killing machine. Any young
Speaker 3: woman or girl, young man who crossed this guy's path
Speaker 3: and survived is extremely lucky, as anyone regardless of age, race,
Speaker 3: or second was a potential victim. And when it comes
Speaker 3: to victim count, Rodney Alcolla's trail of bodies is placed
Speaker 3: between eight and one hundred and thirty. Okay, Now, if
Speaker 3: the numbers are correct, and I'll Calla's body count is
Speaker 3: really that high, that would rank this monster as the
Speaker 3: second worst serial killer in modern history, the first being
Speaker 3: Luis Garavito, known as Labistilla the Beast, a child murderer
Speaker 3: from Colombia who has one hundred and thirty eight confirmed kills.
Speaker 1: I'm sure you will explain it. That gap, right, and
Speaker 1: there must be a reason. Yeah, there is, Okay, there is,
Speaker 1: and I won't ask until you get there. But obviously
Speaker 1: to my first question is like, how do you go
Speaker 1: from A to one thirty?
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, you're right, and I will I'll touch on that.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 3: I'll calla this guy. He was fucking smart, incredibly smart.
Speaker 3: He had a genius level IQ. Now, when it comes
Speaker 3: to intelligent quotient or someone's IQ, I want to give
Speaker 3: you guys some information on how people score and what
Speaker 3: those IQ numbers mean. Now, generally, an IQ under one
Speaker 3: hundred is considered below average, almost kind of borderlining on
Speaker 3: a mental issue, mentally challenged, while an IQ of one
Speaker 3: hundred is considered average. An IQ over one hundred and
Speaker 3: forty is considered a high IQ, and an IQ score
Speaker 3: of one hundred and sixty plus is considered genius level IQ.
Speaker 3: Approximately seventy percent of the population falls within the IQ
Speaker 3: range of eighty five to one point fifteen, which doesn't
Speaker 3: say very much about population. In most scoring systems, less
Speaker 3: than three percent of people score higher than one hundred
Speaker 3: and thirty. Rodney Alcala, this asshole had a staggering one
Speaker 3: hundred and sixty IQ, which classified him as exceptionally gifted.
Speaker 3: And this is rare occurring in about one in thirty
Speaker 3: one thousand, five hundred and sixty people. Isn't that some shit?
Speaker 3: This fucking guy was a genius like verifiably, verifiably, Charles
Speaker 3: Darwin and Ludwig van Beethoven had IQs of one sixty five.
Speaker 3: Einstein and Stephen Hawkings both had IQs of one sixty,
Speaker 3: Ted Bundy one twenty four, Adolf Hitler one forty one,
Speaker 3: and Jeffrey Dahmer won forty five. If al call it
Speaker 3: didn't become a serial killer, God knows what he could
Speaker 3: have accomplished with a mind like that. I mean, he
Speaker 3: had an IQ equivalent to Stephen Hawking and Einstein.
Speaker 1: Isn't that something Hey kind of makes you think about psychopathy.
Speaker 1: I'm assuming he has that or had.
Speaker 3: That, and sexual satis for sure.
Speaker 1: Yeah, But you know, psychopathy is interesting because a lot
Speaker 1: of people attribute that to intelligence, not like saying people
Speaker 1: that's not a fright eire, not like people who people
Speaker 1: who don't know what's going on with that with you know,
Speaker 1: the psychology of that would can attribute people being a
Speaker 1: psychopath with being smart.
Speaker 3: Yes, you know what I'm saying. Yes, they say, like dumb.
Speaker 1: People can be psychopaths one hundred percent, but like that's
Speaker 1: what we don't attribute that that way.
Speaker 3: Well, they say, like your your high powered lawyers, you're,
Speaker 3: you're cream of the crop, doctors, you're, you know, these
Speaker 3: insanely successful businessmen, you know, captains of industry. They share
Speaker 3: a lot of similarities with people that are psychotic with psychopathy. Yes,
Speaker 3: it's Michael Jordan, this is true. Yeah, you're you're your
Speaker 3: cream of the crop, ultimate sports stars, right, have a
Speaker 3: lot of the same similarities as psychopaths.
Speaker 1: It's fucked up any Kubrick. He was an asshole with Kubrick.
Speaker 3: Oh, Stanley Kubrick.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yes, like that, you know, and you whatever tweaked.
Speaker 1: There is to a psychopa psychopathic person that can lead
Speaker 1: to violence enough to merit them serial killer. Obviously, that's
Speaker 1: where you differ from you know, other psychopaths slash other geniuses.
Speaker 1: But it's it's I think it's fascinating that we see
Speaker 1: it that way. We tend to see smart people less evil,
Speaker 1: bad or callous, a callous cold good point, you know,
Speaker 1: it's there's gotta be some connection there that's more obvious
Speaker 1: that I'm not gonna talk about right now. But beyond
Speaker 1: that connection, it seems like it's a it's a fact
Speaker 1: when it isn't two separate things. You can be empathetic
Speaker 1: and a genius. It doesn't have to be one of them.
Speaker 1: There's many examples of that. But yeah, I just found
Speaker 1: that interesting. I want to how many people blame his intellect.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I haven't seen that too much. I don't think
Speaker 3: people want to give him the credit, you know. Yeah,
Speaker 3: but yeah, genius genius. Possibly one of the worst serial
Speaker 3: killers in modern history, but he was a genius. And
Speaker 3: one of the craziest things about Rodney Alcola, besides being
Speaker 3: a genius level murdering piece of shit. While he was
Speaker 3: an active serial killer, Rodney Alcola had the gall to
Speaker 3: appear as a contestant on a hit American television show
Speaker 3: called The Dating Game Now The Dating Game, If you
Speaker 3: don't Know, was an incredibly popular sleazy daytime television show
Speaker 3: in the mid to late nineteen seventies. We're talking a
Speaker 3: smoking hot bachelorette would ask ridiculous questions, usually dripping with
Speaker 3: sexual undertones, to a hidden panel of three handsome bachelors.
Speaker 1: No, it's funny because I've I've seen this clip, and
Speaker 1: I've seen a lot of jokes, like skits that makes
Speaker 1: fun of the dating game over the years in my lifetime,
Speaker 1: Like I've seen the Simpsons do it, I think, and
Speaker 1: other things. I always find them funny. They're ridiculous. It's
Speaker 1: as bad as love is blind. Honestly, it's as bad
Speaker 1: as any of those things.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I equate milk, Oh god, I equated to like
Speaker 3: today's bachelor.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's another good one. Man. And now their questions
Speaker 1: are always so ridiculous.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's all this. And listeners, I would get to
Speaker 3: this in a second, but you're gonna hear it. You're
Speaker 3: gonna hear it firsthand, the questions that are asked, the
Speaker 3: tone in which they're asked, and the responses.
Speaker 1: Also the pride. I mean talk about pride before the
Speaker 1: fall of the sky.
Speaker 3: Well he was already fallen.
Speaker 1: I'm just saying, like the kind of balls. He's got
Speaker 1: to be you said Raisen to fight. It's beyond Braisen.
Speaker 1: It's idiotic, it's psychotic. Yeah right, yeah.
Speaker 3: Now so yeah, so, these sexually charged questions would be
Speaker 3: asked to a panel of three handsome for the seventies bachelor's.
Speaker 1: Honestly hand some for today, to a lot of a.
Speaker 3: Lot of butterfly collars, a lot of porn stashes, a
Speaker 3: lot of manes of hair going hair. This is very strange. Now,
Speaker 3: based on the bachelor's answer, the bachelorette would ultimately choose
Speaker 3: one of these guys to go on a date with
Speaker 3: with hopes of something more happening kind of harmless BRAUNCHI
Speaker 3: fun right. But on this particular episode of The Dating Game,
Speaker 3: which aired on September thirteenth, nineteen seventy eight, despite his
Speaker 3: criminal history because at this time, Alcala had been arrested
Speaker 3: on numerous occasions up to this point, and stories differ
Speaker 3: as to whether or not producers for The Dating Game
Speaker 3: really checked into his background or not, which they were
Speaker 3: supposed to do for all contestants. Anyway, on this date,
Speaker 3: millions of people got to watch a deranged serial killer
Speaker 3: called Bachelor Number one attempt to lure his next victim
Speaker 3: into his web by giving these cute, quippy, sexually charged
Speaker 3: answers to the bachelorette's probing questions with this big, flashing,
Speaker 3: bright smile. It's kind of this hyena smile to shading grin,
Speaker 3: shitting grin of the cameras. It's actually it's horrifying once
Speaker 3: you know who this guy is. Right, And as I
Speaker 3: mentioned at the top of the show, the bachelorette Ryl Bradshaw,
Speaker 3: actually chose to go on a date with Alcala. And
Speaker 3: I'm not going to tell you what what happened to
Speaker 3: the unlucky bachelorette yet yet. Now, actually we have a
Speaker 3: clip from the Dating Game episode featuring Rodney Alcala as
Speaker 3: Bachelor number one. Now listeners, it is a pretty long clip.
Speaker 3: It's over three minutes. I hope you don't mind. But
Speaker 3: now that you know just a little bit about Alcoala
Speaker 3: and his crimes, the answer he gives in this Dating
Speaker 3: Dame episode Dating Game episode are that much creepier and fascinating.
Speaker 1: Just imagine yourself as the audience while you're listening.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, Oscar, could you please roll that clip?
Speaker 4: Thank you very much, thank you, and Welcome to the
Speaker 4: dating game, and we'll get right on the way. It's
Speaker 4: fun to meet our first three eligible bachelor's for game
Speaker 4: number one, and here they are. Good luck Gallan, Well,
Speaker 4: let's see bats. Number one is a successful photographer who
Speaker 4: got his start when his father found him in the
Speaker 4: dark room at the age of thirteen. Fully developed. Between takes,
Speaker 4: he might find him skydiving or motorcycling. Please welcome Rodney
Speaker 4: Alcohol Rode. Welcome, and it's time to beat our young
Speaker 4: lady for game number one.
Speaker 1: And here she is.
Speaker 4: Here's a young lady with a welcome experience.
Speaker 3: She once earned a.
Speaker 4: Living massaging feet, but she quit when her boss suggested
Speaker 4: that she worked.
Speaker 2: Her way up.
Speaker 4: Then she taught school in Phoenix, Arizona. Now she's here
Speaker 4: to educate our three bachelors in the article more, It's
Speaker 4: welcome if you will sensational Cheryl Bradshaw, Hello, Cheryl, don't
Speaker 4: sit down the.
Speaker 1: Act just a minute.
Speaker 4: I want to make sure everything is straight. He relaxed,
Speaker 4: to do okay, all right, you know there are three
Speaker 4: bachelors over there. There'll be one, two, and three. Anything
Speaker 4: you like to find out more about them except their name, age, occupation,
Speaker 4: or income.
Speaker 1: Okay, and we're gonna start by.
Speaker 4: Having them say hello to you and see how they
Speaker 4: shall Number one, would you say hello to Cheryl?
Speaker 2: Please?
Speaker 1: We're gonna have a great time together.
Speaker 4: Cheryl, okay, nad here we.
Speaker 5: Go, Bachelor number one, Yes, across your best time.
Speaker 1: The best time is at night, a nighttime.
Speaker 5: Why do you say that because.
Speaker 1: That's the only time.
Speaker 5: There is the only time. What's wrong with the morning? Afternoon?
Speaker 4: Well, they're okay, But nighttimes when it really gets good.
Speaker 4: Then you're really ready.
Speaker 5: I'm a drama teacher and I'm going to audition each
Speaker 5: of you for my private class. Bachelor number one, and
Speaker 5: you're red, dirty old man.
Speaker 3: Take it. Come on over here.
Speaker 4: Y go latin me.
Speaker 5: A Bachelor number one. I am serving you for dinner.
Speaker 5: Oh what are you called? And what do.
Speaker 4: You look like? I'm called the Banana and I'm looking
Speaker 4: really good?
Speaker 5: Can you be a little more descriptive?
Speaker 3: Peel me.
Speaker 5: Later, Bachelor one later.
Speaker 4: Welcome back to the dating game, and Cheryl, we have
Speaker 4: reached the moment of truth, as we call it. You've
Speaker 4: heard from the bachelor's You've got some great dramatic presentations,
Speaker 4: some good answers. But now I'm gonna ask you a question.
Speaker 4: We'll let d be bachelor number one, Bachelor number two,
Speaker 4: or bachelor number three. Who gets the dates?
Speaker 5: Well, I like bananas, so I'll take one number.
Speaker 4: One batchlor number one. All right, Well, there they go. However,
Speaker 4: you did leave one remaining, and this is your date.
Speaker 4: And I want to tell you something about him, Cheryl.
Speaker 4: He's a skydiver, so he's got a lot of nerve.
Speaker 4: He's in a motorcycle. He's also fine photographer. And say
Speaker 4: hello Rodney Alcalo. Rodney, God the hell I said, Rodney dinner?
Speaker 4: But the one answer.
Speaker 3: Such a creepy, sleazy fucker he is. Now, I'll leave
Speaker 3: a link to the video showing all of this so
Speaker 3: you can see Cheryl and Rodney and Rodney's shitty grin
Speaker 3: in his mane of hair, and his eyes, his eyes
Speaker 3: are there's nothing there there. Yeah, you could tell.
Speaker 1: You know who's playing. You mentioned an the contract in
Speaker 1: the movie. You know who's playing.
Speaker 3: I've seen him, I mean i've seen a picture of him.
Speaker 3: To me, doesn't look anything like Rodney Alcala. But I
Speaker 3: can't think of his name.
Speaker 1: Okay, sorry, I mean I could look at it.
Speaker 3: But yeah, it is of right this and recording this.
Speaker 3: It's not October eighteenth yet, it's the thirteenth, so I
Speaker 3: haven't seen the movie yet, right. We could always come
Speaker 3: back and report on it in January.
Speaker 1: That's true.
Speaker 3: Now, as prize is for winning the dating game, paid
Speaker 3: to send Cheryl and Rodney for tennis lessons and for
Speaker 3: ridiculous looking matching tennis outfits and to Magic Mountain, a
Speaker 3: theme park in California. Sadly, the couple would never take
Speaker 3: those tennis lessons or visit Magic Mountain. We'll get into why,
Speaker 3: and we're also going to get into Alcala's hideous crimes,
Speaker 3: of course, but for now, let's take a look at
Speaker 3: his background. Was something there that could have foreshadowed this monster?
Speaker 1: Oh? Sorry, I didn't know. I guess you're wanted to know. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I did find them. It is your mom. Oh no,
Speaker 1: that's not right. His name is Daniel.
Speaker 3: Daniel Silvato is playing Rodney Alcala.
Speaker 1: Yes, and he's been in things before. Funny enough, we
Speaker 1: mentioned a movie of his in the last show. He
Speaker 1: was in The Pope s Exionist. I think he plays
Speaker 1: one of the younger priests in that movie. Really, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's funny. Interesting, interesting connection. Okay, so now we know,
Speaker 1: but he's more about He's definitely not a big name.
Speaker 1: I definitely, I know I reckonize his face, but I
Speaker 1: don't know him offhand like that, not like Anna Kendrick.
Speaker 3: Anyway, m Yannndrick.
Speaker 1: Yes, it's such a hard offer.
Speaker 3: That's my celebrity free bree bo I get it now.
Speaker 3: Rodney Alcala was born Rodrigo Jacques Alcala boukoor yikes on
Speaker 3: August twenty third, nineteen forty three, in San Antonio, Texas.
Speaker 1: Is that bottling bontu?
Speaker 3: No, the Rodney Alcola is definitely a fucking twist, cap
Speaker 3: oh nice. His parents were Raoul Alcala Bookor and Anna
Speaker 3: Maria Gutierres. In nineteen fifty one, Rodney Alcala moved with
Speaker 3: his family to Mexico, and around nineteen fifty four out
Speaker 3: his father, Raoul abandoned his family, which led to Alkala
Speaker 3: and his brother's Alcal and his brother and two sisters.
Speaker 3: So he's got a brother and two sisters and his
Speaker 3: mother moving to Los Angeles, California when he was only
Speaker 3: twelve years old. His childhood was pretty uneventful from what
Speaker 3: I can tell. No real warning signs to predict what
Speaker 3: he would become. And I've read too much about this asshole,
Speaker 3: watched too many documentaries, and really there was nothing there
Speaker 3: that would have signaled this. This is someone other than
Speaker 3: the and the father, right, But that doesn't mean you're
Speaker 3: going to grow up to be the rapist ciracular this guy.
Speaker 1: Was because so many of us are ab.
Speaker 3: And there's not much on his parents either. I read
Speaker 3: that his mother, Anna Maria, was incredibly hard working. She
Speaker 3: did whatever she could to provide for her son and
Speaker 3: for the brother and the two sisters. It said his
Speaker 3: mother gave Rodney every opportunity to succeed, including sending him
Speaker 3: to private schools bare So there's nothing tragic there. Really. Yeah,
Speaker 3: you know, a little father issue who doesn't have those,
Speaker 3: that's it. But at the edge of seventeen, he joined
Speaker 3: the US Army and served as a clerk. But four
Speaker 3: years into his service he suffered what was likened to
Speaker 3: a nervous breakdown, and he faced allegations of sexual misconduct,
Speaker 3: and he was ultimately discharged from the army in nineteen
Speaker 3: sixty four after being diagnosed with severe antisocial personality disorder. Okay, now,
Speaker 3: once side of the Army. Alcala enrolled in the UCLA
Speaker 3: School of Fine Arts and earned his Bachelor of Arts
Speaker 3: degree in nineteen sixty eight. And it's in nineteen sixty eight,
Speaker 3: that's something in Alkala snaps or triggers. What triggered him,
Speaker 3: we don't know. We know that in sixty eight Alcala
Speaker 3: attempted to kill what we think was his first victim,
Speaker 3: an eight year old girl named Tali Shapiro, just a
Speaker 3: fucking vicious, heinous crying. Were they're victims before Tali Shapiro?
Speaker 3: We don't know. But from the details I'm about to
Speaker 3: give you about what Alcala did to the little Tally,
Speaker 3: I find it hard to believe she was his first,
Speaker 3: Like he just decided out of nowhere to do what
Speaker 3: he did to her. I just don't buy it. I
Speaker 3: think there were victims before this little girl.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: So, on the morning of September twenty fifth, nineteen sixty eight,
Speaker 3: Rodney Alcola pulled up to Tally as she was walking
Speaker 3: to school on Sunset Boulevard. This is in Los Angeles.
Speaker 3: Of course, he tried to convince little Tally to get
Speaker 3: into his car, but she refused, saying that she wasn't
Speaker 3: allowed to talk to strangers. Good for you, ever, the
Speaker 3: smooth talker. In response, Alkala told Tally that he was
Speaker 3: good friends with her family and that if she got
Speaker 3: into his car, he'd show her a pretty picture. And sadly,
Speaker 3: this was enough to convince Tally to get into Alcala's
Speaker 3: beige color sedan with no license plates, and according to
Speaker 3: court testimony, getting into the car is the last thing
Speaker 3: Tali Shapiro remembers, thank God now as literally a heaven
Speaker 3: sent miracle. A good samaritan who was also heading down
Speaker 3: Sunset saw this whole thing transpire. He saw a little
Speaker 3: girl walking down Sunset Boulevard, He saw this beige car
Speaker 3: pull up to her, and then he witnessed the girl
Speaker 3: getting into the vehicle. Thinking this was kind of odd,
Speaker 3: the good samaritan called the police and proceeded to give
Speaker 3: a detailed description of Alcala and the vehicle. Now, some
Speaker 3: articles I read say that the good samaritan actually followed
Speaker 3: Alcala's car. Either way, the police were able to quickly
Speaker 3: locate Alcala's DeLong Pre Avenue apartment. When the police arrived
Speaker 3: at Alcala's apartment door, they demanded to be let in.
Speaker 3: They're banging on the door, and Alcala peeked through the
Speaker 3: door and said he couldn't let him in because he
Speaker 3: was taking a shower. The cops gave him a few
Speaker 3: seconds to get his shit together, and when he didn't
Speaker 3: come back to the door, they said fuck it and
Speaker 3: they kicked the door in, but Alcala, that slippery piece
Speaker 3: of shit, had already escaped out the back door. Upon
Speaker 3: entering the apartment, police found poor Tali Shapiro on the
Speaker 3: kitchen floor close to death. Now, remember this is an
Speaker 3: innocent eight year old girl. Tali was found naked, legs
Speaker 3: spread and lying in a puddle of her own blood.
Speaker 3: Alcala had beaten, raped, and nearly strangled Tolly to death
Speaker 3: with a ten pound metal bar. Now, thankfully, this incredibly strong,
Speaker 3: brave little girl survived the most vicious attack imaginable, but
Speaker 3: only after being in a coma for a month, and
Speaker 3: after months of intense medical treatment following that coma. After
Speaker 3: Tali was well enough, her family moved out of the country.
Speaker 3: And I don't blame him. This fact becomes important later
Speaker 3: and unfortunately leads to many more murders. Now I understand
Speaker 3: as we go through this. This guy, he was a traveler,
Speaker 3: a wanderer. Alkala traveled from California to New York and
Speaker 3: back again a number of times while he was an
Speaker 3: active serial killer, stopping who knows where and doing who
Speaker 3: knows what across country. Killer. Now, when Alkala fled his
Speaker 3: apartment after brutalizing Tali Shapiro, he high tailed it to
Speaker 3: New York. And while he's in New York, Rodney Alcala
Speaker 3: changed his name to John Berger. John Berger enrolled in
Speaker 3: film school at NYU, and he even got to study
Speaker 3: under none other than Roman Polanski.
Speaker 1: Well not a little surprising, I guess.
Speaker 3: Now, while studying at NYU, Alcoala is added to the
Speaker 3: FBI's ten most wanted list for the attempted murder of
Speaker 3: Tali Shapiro. And I guess he began to feel the
Speaker 3: heat in New York, was he? Because he quickly moved
Speaker 3: to New Hampshire, where he again changed his name, but
Speaker 3: just a little bit. In New York, Alcala was John
Speaker 3: Berger b E r g e R. And when he
Speaker 3: moves to New Hampshire, he's now John Berger b U
Speaker 3: r g e R. Like a fucking cheeseburger. Yeah, In
Speaker 3: New Hampshire, Alcola or Cheeseburger gets a job as a
Speaker 3: counselor at, of all places, a girls camp. This fucking guy,
Speaker 3: I'm telling you can't make this ship up, Oscar.
Speaker 1: I mean well, I mean talk about our system being
Speaker 1: slow to catch up with things.
Speaker 3: I mean, Jesus Christ there, wait, just wait.
Speaker 1: I mean the other the idea of him flying from
Speaker 1: one to the other, assuming he flew from LA to
Speaker 1: New York.
Speaker 3: He's he's he's pretty much driving it, driving it, which
Speaker 3: is worse. That's worse for a guy like this.
Speaker 1: It does seem worse, yes, but also like it feels
Speaker 1: like well, I mean, compared to today flying you can't
Speaker 1: get away with not with your face, you.
Speaker 3: Know, Oh you should be caught in a second, in
Speaker 3: a second. Yeah. See, he gets a job at a
Speaker 3: fucking girls camp in New Hampshire. Cheeseburger does. Now, now
Speaker 3: this is great.
Speaker 4: Now.
Speaker 3: A few girls from the camp noticed an FBI wanted
Speaker 3: poster tacked up at a post office what and they
Speaker 3: commented to each other that the man on the poster
Speaker 3: looks an awful lot like their creepy Cans camp counselor,
Speaker 3: mister Cheeseburger. Yeah, the girls notified authorities and Alcoho was
Speaker 3: apprehended and brought back to California to stand trial for
Speaker 3: the abduction, rape, and attempted murder of Tillie Shapiro. Thank god. Right,
Speaker 3: here's where the problem comes in.
Speaker 1: I know exactly where you're going.
Speaker 3: Because the Shapiro family was out of the country and unavailable,
Speaker 3: there wasn't a primary witness to testify against Alcola. All
Speaker 3: the charges Alcala would have faced, which would have come
Speaker 3: with a lengthy prison term. He instead was offered a
Speaker 3: plea deal and pled down to a lesser charge of
Speaker 3: child molestation alcohol. Wound up spending only thirty four months
Speaker 3: in jail, and he had to register as a sex
Speaker 3: vender thirty four months for what he did to that
Speaker 3: poor kid. Yeah, so fucked up. So in less than
Speaker 3: three years, the animal was back out in the streets
Speaker 3: and hunting once again.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I saw it come in. The second
Speaker 1: you mentioned yeah, my bad, Okay, the second you mentioned
Speaker 1: that they went out of town, well the country, not
Speaker 1: the country. Sorry, Yeah, I knew exactly what this was going.
Speaker 1: And then this is nothing necessarily that I would It
Speaker 1: is easy to blame the justice system. But when I
Speaker 1: here to do that right now? Yeah, it's super predictable there.
Speaker 1: For there was something you mentioned earlier. I'm trying to
Speaker 1: remember what it was before you got into the Little Girl,
Speaker 1: which something about his upbringing. I had it a minute ago. Man,
Speaker 1: I'm losing it as I'm talking.
Speaker 3: It's late. It is late, and we just recorded the
Speaker 3: second Exor System right episode.
Speaker 1: We're doing that double.
Speaker 3: We're doing two for if he comes back, say hey,
Speaker 3: stupid stop, No, you're fine now. Alcohol's next victim was
Speaker 3: a woman named Cornelia Cryley. Originally Alcoholo was only suspecting
Speaker 3: suspected of killing Criley in New York in nineteen seventy
Speaker 3: one while he was on the run for the crimes
Speaker 3: he committed against Tali Shapiro. Criley was a twenty three
Speaker 3: year old TWA flight attendant. Alcala brutally raped and strangled
Speaker 3: Cryley with a pair of her own pantyhose inside her
Speaker 3: Upper East Side apartment. When police found her, Criley was
Speaker 3: lying naked and posed against an overturned bed, with the
Speaker 3: nylon stocking to strangle her still cinched around her neck.
Speaker 3: Cornelia's bra had been pulled up over her head, and
Speaker 3: Alcola had severely bitten her left breast. Alcolo was confirmed
Speaker 3: as Cryley's killer in twenty twelve. So for forty one years,
Speaker 3: Cornelia Cryley's murder went unsolved. Wow, forty one fucking years.
Speaker 3: Imagine being their family and not knowing for forty one years.
Speaker 1: Imagine allowed them to make it through all that time.
Speaker 1: Probably the ones and then I remembered and.
Speaker 3: Not much is known about this next victim, but this
Speaker 3: one was lucky to get away. This one actually got away.
Speaker 3: In California, in nineteen seventy four, while on parole for
Speaker 3: Talie Shapiro's molet station charges, Remember he was plied down
Speaker 3: to a molestation, Alcolo was arrested for assaulting a thirteen
Speaker 3: year old girl referred to in court documents only as
Speaker 3: Julie J. Julie J had accepted from Alcala what she
Speaker 3: thought was be a ride to school, very reminiscent of
Speaker 3: Tarlie Shapiro. Instead, Alkoala attacked and sexually assaulted Julie J.
Speaker 3: He was caught and only spent two years in jail
Speaker 3: for these terrible offenses. Then he was back out on
Speaker 3: the prowl and unbelievably, his parole officer allowed him to
Speaker 3: travel back to New York in nineteen seventy seven.
Speaker 1: I wonder if that's a case of, like, you know,
Speaker 1: too much going on, like an overbearing amount of cases,
Speaker 1: that kind of thing.
Speaker 3: I don't even know if it was that.
Speaker 1: I think Alkoala was charming that much charming at that
Speaker 1: kind of harmless.
Speaker 3: I mean, this is a I don't know, I feel
Speaker 3: like killer were dealing with he could talk, right, buddy,
Speaker 3: you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: I guess you're right. But also like and maybe this
Speaker 1: is me living in the current age, and I just
Speaker 1: don't feel like anyone will get away with that anymore,
Speaker 1: and just not to back then. But it does seem
Speaker 1: like when it comes to Convex in general, basically they've
Speaker 1: been traying like shit all their lives in his country forever,
Speaker 1: whether or not they're deserved, but especially they're deserve once.
Speaker 1: And I feel like when it comes to that, especially
Speaker 1: if you're a po officer or halfway house manager or whatever,
Speaker 1: you beat the rap sheet. You assign a judgment to
Speaker 1: that person by reading what they've done, what they're sentenced for,
Speaker 1: before their looks are charmed. You don't believe any bullshit
Speaker 1: they're gonna tell, are you? You know, everything they say
Speaker 1: is a lie. I feel like there's a there's a
Speaker 1: disconnect there that I'm not understanding that I don't think
Speaker 1: it's just the time.
Speaker 3: You're right, there is a disconnect, a huge disconnect, you
Speaker 3: know what I'm saying, because what follows, you know, is terrible, right,
Speaker 3: you know, had he not been allowed to go back
Speaker 3: to New York at that point?
Speaker 1: Also, like you know, did you hear all these stories
Speaker 1: that are very very true today and must been must
Speaker 1: have been true back then? That child moll the station
Speaker 1: doesn't go well with people or incarcerated.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 3: That's another great point that that too, he got off
Speaker 3: pretty easy, not getting fucking.
Speaker 1: Shanked pretty fucking easy twice.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, Dad's again, did was he turning up the
Speaker 3: charm in jail?
Speaker 1: What the fuck was he doing? I don't understand. Once
Speaker 1: he's yeah, que genius, doesn't mean he gets away with everything.
Speaker 1: It just means he had a capacity I did not
Speaker 1: doesn't mean you know what I'm saying, If I if
Speaker 1: I see this guy in jail, in a jail cell,
Speaker 1: I automatically know he's an asshole. Convicted asshole felon and
Speaker 1: I know he melested a child. No way am I
Speaker 1: trust anything he says. How can he charm me from
Speaker 1: that point?
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 1: I don't understand.
Speaker 3: I know it's rhetorical, but yeah, great point. And by
Speaker 3: the way, you mentioned that you know how he looks,
Speaker 3: and I mentioned how he looks. Listeners, go to the
Speaker 3: show notes. I should have mentioned this at the top
Speaker 3: of the show. All the victims I have pictures of,
Speaker 3: and I also have pictures of cheeseburger I'll as fuck.
Speaker 3: So yeah, go to the show notes. But no, that's
Speaker 3: a great point. How did he not get the shit
Speaker 3: kicked out of him in prison or killed for doing
Speaker 3: this stuff?
Speaker 1: Did he merely jon the Natzi gang in there or
Speaker 1: who knows? Well he's actually Hispanics? Now maybe the other right.
Speaker 3: It wouldn't work. No, I don't know, but yeah, it's
Speaker 3: a great question. I don't know.
Speaker 4: Uh.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So his pro officer lets him back to New York.
Speaker 3: So in New York in nineteen seventy seven, alcohol got
Speaker 3: right to it, killing a woman named Ellen Hoover. Ellen
Speaker 3: Hover now she was twenty three years old at the
Speaker 3: time of her death. On July fifteenth, nineteen seventy seven.
Speaker 3: She was a comedy writer and an aspiring music conductor
Speaker 3: who disappeared after leaving her Manhattan apartment on July fifteenth,
Speaker 3: nineteen seventy seven. On the date she went missing, Ellen
Speaker 3: had written that she was to meet with someone named
Speaker 3: John Berger, a photographer, in her date book. That used
Speaker 3: to be a thing back then. Now I use Google
Speaker 3: Calendar for everything, but there used to be a date book.
Speaker 3: So in her date book on that date she was
Speaker 3: meeting with a photographer named John Berger. Fucking red flags
Speaker 3: right for us. And her friend said that this John
Speaker 3: Berger character had been pressuring Ellen to have lunch with them,
Speaker 3: so that's what she did. She left her apartment on
Speaker 3: July fifteenth, again, seventy seven, and she was never seen
Speaker 3: alive again. Eleven months later, Ellen's bones were found near
Speaker 3: Rockefeller Estates the grounds the Rockefeller Estate grounds. Alcohola liked
Speaker 3: to use the beautiful, vast Rockefeller Estate as a backdrop
Speaker 3: for his photography sessions, so he is intimately familiar with
Speaker 3: the grounds and any potential hiding spots. When Ellen Hover's
Speaker 3: body was found, she was so badly decomposed that dental
Speaker 3: records were the only way to identify her. Now here's
Speaker 3: a twist, Ellen Hover, she wasn't a nobody. Yeah, her goddaughter.
Speaker 3: She was goddaughter of both Dean Martin and Sammy Davis Junior.
Speaker 3: You're kidding that was their goddaughter.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 3: And her father owned an incredibly popular, probably the most
Speaker 3: popular nightclub in Hollywood at the time, a joint called Ciro's,
Speaker 3: which Ellen was set to inherit. She was an heiress
Speaker 3: to this vast kind of They were very wealthy and
Speaker 3: she was going to inherit this nightclub and all that
Speaker 3: came with it. Baby. Yeah. And it wasn't until twenty
Speaker 3: ten that Alcohola was confirmed to be Hovah's killed, Hoover's killer. Wow.
Speaker 3: And I didn't mean that the other women that were
Speaker 3: killed were nobody's right now, but she was a somebody. Clearly,
Speaker 3: she was a somebody and Samit Day was junior and
Speaker 3: Sami Day.
Speaker 1: No if anything barks and me when you mentioned that,
Speaker 1: it's not that you know that other victims are nobody
Speaker 1: says more that I'm surprised that the the and maybe
Speaker 1: maybe you're about to say, how that the investigation didn't
Speaker 1: get kicked up a notch because of the celebrity status connection.
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3: Oh, it was Front page News also.
Speaker 1: Okay, police, you know usually that's the thing that was
Speaker 1: involved that kicks this off to one hundred famous infamy.
Speaker 1: They didn't catch them, right, but they didn't catch them.
Speaker 3: Yeah, front page News. Hover was for sure now. Alcola's
Speaker 3: next victim was a woman named Jill Barkham. Barkham was
Speaker 3: eighteen years old at the time of her death. She
Speaker 3: was an New York transplant who moved to la with
Speaker 3: aspirations of becoming a Hollywood actress. How many times we've
Speaker 3: heard that story. And she was a small thing, barely
Speaker 3: five feet tall, had less than one hundred pounds. Jill
Speaker 3: disappeared from Sunset Boulevard and her body was found on
Speaker 3: a service road off Mulholland Drive near Marlon Brando's house
Speaker 3: actually in the Hollywood Hills, on November tenth, nineteen seventy seven.
Speaker 3: She had been raped, sodomized, her face bashed in with
Speaker 3: a rock, and she'd been strangled three times with belt,
Speaker 3: with her pantyhose and with one of her pant legs,
Speaker 3: and she had been posed on her knees with her
Speaker 3: face in the dirt. Alcolo was charged with Jill's murder
Speaker 3: through DNA evidence. So this guy, he was a fucking maniac,
Speaker 3: just a maniac.
Speaker 1: So I assume that they know they she got found
Speaker 1: out to his house because he used three different implements.
Speaker 3: Yes, and this.
Speaker 1: Will come up again soon.
Speaker 3: I don't know if the implements were still around her
Speaker 3: neck that wasn't disclosed, or whether they were kind of
Speaker 3: strewn around the body.
Speaker 1: Oh, there's patterns to it that you can tell.
Speaker 3: Oh, oh yeah, definitely. Yeah, he's got an mo for sure.
Speaker 1: I'm just saying. I wonder if he had just used
Speaker 1: his hands, could they have told could they be would
Speaker 1: they be able to tell that he strangled his victims
Speaker 1: multiple times?
Speaker 3: Oh? I don't know.
Speaker 1: I can you tell that? I'm sure maybe now you
Speaker 1: can with our modern sciences.
Speaker 3: But no, that's true. Yeah back then, I don't know.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 1: I'm curious, which makes.
Speaker 3: Me think that's why they knew, because that shit was
Speaker 3: either still around her neck or it was strewn around
Speaker 3: the body, and there could have been ligature marks that
Speaker 3: were of differing widths, or.
Speaker 1: Do they mention at all if these items were broken,
Speaker 1: they didn't because it's possible that he strangled this victim
Speaker 1: maybe at least more than those three times, because and
Speaker 1: then used a different item after it broke, which meaning
Speaker 1: that he could have used an item more than once,
Speaker 1: like in the middle of the second time.
Speaker 3: He did have that thing where he liked to choke
Speaker 3: him to the point of death, then.
Speaker 1: He's prolonging that he may he's making that emotion multiple
Speaker 1: times with one person, right, yes, whereas a lot of
Speaker 1: other strangulations just a one and done. I wonder if
Speaker 1: he's using the panty host first, right, let's her go
Speaker 1: breathe come back down. It breaks on the second time
Speaker 1: he uses a different thing, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: Maybe it's more than three.
Speaker 3: It could be, right, Well, this guy.
Speaker 1: Depending on how their forensics were able to tell at all,
Speaker 1: how how this vectorm was strangled, right, I don't know
Speaker 1: how they had it.
Speaker 3: Well, the technology certainly wasn't there back then, right, you know,
Speaker 3: because a lot of these cases aren't being closed until
Speaker 3: the you know, twenty tens and higher.
Speaker 1: You know, is that when they found out about her,
Speaker 1: I didn't.
Speaker 3: Write a date on that. I apologize, Well, it was
Speaker 3: through DNA evidence so I'm assuming.
Speaker 1: It has to be after that because then, okay, Now, on.
Speaker 3: June twenty fourth, nineteen seventy eight, Alkala murdered thirty two
Speaker 3: year old Charlotte Lamb. Lamb was found posed again this
Speaker 3: is one of his emos, in the laundry room of
Speaker 3: a large apartment complex in El Segunda, California. She had
Speaker 3: been raped, beaten, and strangled to death with a shoelace.
Speaker 3: She was found with her arms behind her, bound behind her,
Speaker 3: and bite marks on one of her breasts. Once again,
Speaker 3: DNA linked Alcala to Charlotte Lamb. Now for one of
Speaker 3: the most interesting things about this case, during all this
Speaker 3: murder in Mayhem and less than three months after killing
Speaker 3: Charlotte Lamb, so he's already a fucking rapist, child rapist,
Speaker 3: and he's a multi multiple murderer. At this point, Rodney
Speaker 3: Alcoa had the balls to appear on the Gate dating
Speaker 3: game television show. Like I said on September thirteenth, nineteen
Speaker 3: seventy eight. Now, up to this point, from what we know,
Speaker 3: Alcala has killed at least two women, attempted to kill
Speaker 3: one child, and is spect in two murders and the
Speaker 3: Jay was it Julie j a rapist as well. He's
Speaker 3: also been in prison multiple times for offenses ranging from
Speaker 3: child molestation, drug possession, parole violation, providing drugs to a minor,
Speaker 3: and assault. I mean, a real gold star here. If
Speaker 3: the producers on The Dating Game just took a peek
Speaker 3: into this clowns background, we're talking literally a surface level look,
Speaker 3: they would have seen that he was an animal, and
Speaker 3: he would have never been led onto the show.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is what the internet would have been used?
Speaker 3: Or would he remember Rodney Alcala? He was attractive. He
Speaker 3: was an intelligent guy with a huge, pearly white smile,
Speaker 3: tanned skin, a supposedly lucrative career as a fashion photographer
Speaker 3: who also liked extreme sports like parachuting and motorbiking. A
Speaker 3: guy like that great for ratings. So who knows what
Speaker 3: the Game Dating Game's attentions really were. Maybe they did
Speaker 3: look into his background and said, ah, he's too good,
Speaker 3: we got to get this guy on camera. I don't know,
Speaker 3: I can't say that for.
Speaker 1: Sure right now. And also those people are long gone
Speaker 1: and like they still have those jobs to worry about it, right, yeah? Right,
Speaker 1: I assume so I hope. So anyway, if you're still
Speaker 1: in that job, you know, old TV producer, I'm sorry
Speaker 1: for you. I yeah, see the more you tell these
Speaker 1: details of the story, when we talk about the prison stuff,
Speaker 1: when we talk about how he gets people like I
Speaker 1: get how he gets the victims, the charm of that
Speaker 1: with the women that I get. This charm makes sense
Speaker 1: when his life is dedicated to just getting his next
Speaker 1: fucking strangulation. He tries his hardest, but when it comes
Speaker 1: to these things like the TV producer angle, the prison
Speaker 1: thing we mentioned, seems to me like it's easier to
Speaker 1: just attribute a lot of his success to his smarts
Speaker 1: and his looks. And it's easy to go there. And
Speaker 1: I'm sure it works for some stuff, but it can't
Speaker 1: be for everything. And I don't know how that game
Speaker 1: show thing is the producer's faults.
Speaker 3: And if something well.
Speaker 1: There's no man ach arm. He could have done his
Speaker 1: way in there.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 1: It almost seems like he did it on the lark
Speaker 1: and he got in and like on my end, I'll
Speaker 1: do it right. It almost seems like that, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: like someone dared him.
Speaker 3: You know, I don't know, but the Bachelorette that starred
Speaker 3: in that episode with Alcohola, the one Anna Kendrick is
Speaker 3: playing in Woman of the Hour, and that voice you
Speaker 3: heard at the top of the show when we played
Speaker 3: that clip, the woman asking questions that Ryl Bradshaw. Bradshaw
Speaker 3: was an attractive bond with this bubbly personality, and she
Speaker 3: wore a revealing low cut top on the show, exposing
Speaker 3: her ample cleavage, which we know he likes, and he
Speaker 3: does and ultimately and so do I. Ultimately, as you know,
Speaker 3: as you know, Bradshaw chose Alcala as the one she
Speaker 3: would like to go on a date with. And if
Speaker 3: you follow that link in the show notes, you could
Speaker 3: see the newly joined couple hugging each other and shooting
Speaker 3: these big, cheesy grins to the cameras. Outwardly on camera,
Speaker 3: both contestants seemed really happy with each other until they
Speaker 3: were backstage alone after the show. Cheryl Bradshaw immediately began
Speaker 3: feeling uneasy around Alcola. She didn't like being alone with them,
Speaker 3: and she said he was acting creepy. She said Alcohola
Speaker 3: tried to smooth talker, promising her a date she'd never forget,
Speaker 3: Bradshaw sen said when she began to fish she began
Speaker 3: to feel really ill, sick, physically sick, and really uneasy
Speaker 3: being an Alcala's presence with her internal alarm bells blaring,
Speaker 3: Bradshaw decided to reject Alcohala's promise for a date she'd
Speaker 3: never forget, and she sided to Ditchum, having absolutely no
Speaker 3: idea at how close she came to being likely brutally murdered.
Speaker 3: So fate intervened and the two never went out, and
Speaker 3: they never saw each other again. But just think what
Speaker 3: this kind of rejection would have done to a person
Speaker 3: like Alkala mentally. Authorities do feel that Cheryl Bradshaw's rejection
Speaker 3: led to the next string of violent murders we're going
Speaker 3: to talk about.
Speaker 1: Oh see, I don't know you were going with that.
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, I wonder, and maybe you're gonna
Speaker 1: get to this later. I wonder if she has said
Speaker 1: anything after alcohol was captured.
Speaker 3: Dude, it's so hard to find anything on Cheryl Bradshaw.
Speaker 3: Oh Man quotes where she at today. That's why I
Speaker 3: can't kind of wait to see this movie, and I
Speaker 3: want to know where she because I've searched, I can't
Speaker 3: find shit about her.
Speaker 1: Well, it doesn't mean that she doesn't either.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 1: It's a movie. They're going to make it up.
Speaker 3: They probably have better research, and I am, but I
Speaker 3: couldn't find shit.
Speaker 1: I mean saying they could just make it up, saying
Speaker 1: it's a movie.
Speaker 3: But oh, I got you.
Speaker 1: You're gonna make up?
Speaker 3: What if I see if it's really true?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 3: I got you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know what I'm saying. They don't. They probably
Speaker 1: haven't talked to you, Shay Broshaw either, but you think
Speaker 1: probably not.
Speaker 3: I would hope they would have.
Speaker 1: Nah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Frankly, I don't even know if she's alive. I'm
Speaker 3: hoping she I'm assuming she is.
Speaker 1: I mean, she's well within the age to be alive.
Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, but I'm just that's my first quest. Obviously,
Speaker 1: you don't have an answer that I don't. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: can tell you. Yeah, that sucks for you. But yeah,
Speaker 1: my first question would be, like, did anybody follow up
Speaker 1: on an interview with her?
Speaker 3: You know, it's almost like after this, she just got
Speaker 3: ghost Yeah nothing, Yeah, maybe she was that scared.
Speaker 2: I don't.
Speaker 3: I don't know, but you're right, it bothers me. I
Speaker 3: do want to know.
Speaker 1: I mean, she seems pretty like sharp instinctively. Why she
Speaker 1: follow that instinct watching to follow it again? Like why
Speaker 1: even pursue any kind of limelight or whatever. She's only
Speaker 1: can be chased and follow it can only be negative
Speaker 1: for her. Might as well just immediately get out of
Speaker 1: the spotlight, disappear as soon as you found out, Like
Speaker 1: why even?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean they say women's intuition, it's a real thing. Yeah,
Speaker 3: and she didn't even I mean, this is backstage. This
Speaker 3: isn't a month down the line when they're out alone,
Speaker 3: you know, in his car parked somewhere. This is fucking
Speaker 3: behind stage of the dating games. She got it, She
Speaker 3: felt it. She was right because just three months after
Speaker 3: appearing on the Dating Game and facing rejection by Ryl Bradshaw,
Speaker 3: Rodney Alcala claimed his next victim. Twenty seven year old
Speaker 3: Georgia Wicksted Wicksted, a nurse, was found murdered in her
Speaker 3: Malibu home, California, of course, December sixteenth, nineteen seventy seven.
Speaker 3: She had been raped, sodomized, sexually abused with a hammer
Speaker 3: which mutilated her genitals. Then the claw end of the
Speaker 3: hammer was used to bash her head in, and she
Speaker 3: was also strangled with her own nylons as if everything
Speaker 3: else wasn't enough. DNA evidence and a handprint found at
Speaker 3: the scene matched Alcala's next Alkala murdered twenty one year
Speaker 3: old Jill Parento. Parento, a computer programmer, was found raped
Speaker 3: and strangled to death in her apartment in Burbank, California,
Speaker 3: on June fourteenth, nineteen seventy nine. She was found naked
Speaker 3: on her bathroom floor, posed with pillows under her shoulders.
Speaker 3: She had been sexually assaulted, beaten, and strangled. Blood was
Speaker 3: found at the scene matching that of three percent of
Speaker 3: the population, which did not rule out or confirm Rodney
Speaker 3: Alcala as the killer. However, Jill Parento's friend, Catherine Bryant
Speaker 3: testified that she and Jill had met Alkala at a
Speaker 3: club several times, and Alkalo would ultimately be charged in
Speaker 3: Jill Parento's death. Okay, now, this next murder, this is
Speaker 3: the one that finally nailed Rodney Alcala. In Long Beach,
Speaker 3: calif on June twentieth, nineteen seventy nine, Alcala murdered twelve
Speaker 3: year old twelve years old Robin Samso.
Speaker 1: Robin Boy or Robin Girl, A girl. I assume girl
Speaker 1: but just making sure no.
Speaker 3: No, you're right. No at the point name, she's twelve
Speaker 3: years old man.
Speaker 4: So.
Speaker 3: On June twentieth, nineteen seventy nine, Robin was set to
Speaker 3: start a job answering phones at a local ballet studio
Speaker 3: in exchange for a ballet lessons It's so sad, dude.
Speaker 3: Before starting her first day at work, earlier in the day, Robin,
Speaker 3: along with her friend Bridget Wilvert, decided to go to beach,
Speaker 3: and there Robin and Bridget were approached by a man
Speaker 3: with long, dark hair who asked if he could take
Speaker 3: their picture. The girls agreed, but at the same time,
Speaker 3: one of Bridget's Robin's friend, one of Bridget's neighbors, ran up,
Speaker 3: this woman named Jappie Jackie Young, and she because she
Speaker 3: witnessed this man talking to the little girls, and she
Speaker 3: approached there and she said, hey, is everything okay? You
Speaker 3: guys all right? And at that the man, who of
Speaker 3: course was Rodney Alcala, he put his head down and
Speaker 3: he turned and he walked away fast, and Robin and
Speaker 3: Bridget then decided to leave that beach. But Robin never
Speaker 3: made it to work at that ballet school. In fact,
Speaker 3: that was the last time anyone ever saw Robin alive.
Speaker 3: Twelve days later, on July second, nineteen seventy nine, a
Speaker 3: film crew found I'm sorry. A fire crew found the
Speaker 3: badly decomposing body of a child in California's Sierra Madre
Speaker 3: Foothills near Monterey Park. Animals had done a number on
Speaker 3: the poor child's body. As there was nothing but scattered
Speaker 3: bones left. It took three days to identify the body.
Speaker 3: It was Robin Samso Alcala didn't get her at the beach.
Speaker 3: He waited, and he got her while she was riding
Speaker 3: a bike to that ballet school. Now, luckily, Bridget Wolvert,
Speaker 3: the friend, was able to give a description to the
Speaker 3: police of the man who offered to take their pictures
Speaker 3: at the beach. The description led to a composite sketch,
Speaker 3: and that composite sketch very much looked like Rodney Alcala. Now,
Speaker 3: I left this composite sketch in the show notes so
Speaker 3: you can see it for yourself. It's pretty remarkable how
Speaker 3: accurate this sketch is. Twelve year old Bridget did a
Speaker 3: great job at describing Alcala. The sketch was released and
Speaker 3: Alcala's parole officer saw it. He then called the cops
Speaker 3: and said, you know what, that sketch looks an awful
Speaker 3: lot like this guy I have in my caseload. You
Speaker 3: really need to go check him out. Police took the
Speaker 3: advice and quickly tracked Alcala down. Turns out he was
Speaker 3: living with his mother very near where he dumped Robin's
Speaker 3: body in Monterey Park. This guy's such a loser. Alcola
Speaker 3: could not provide an alibi for his whereabouts during the
Speaker 3: time I'm in question, so on July twenty fourth, nineteen
Speaker 3: seventy nine, Rodney Alkoo was arrested for the kidnap and
Speaker 3: murder of Robin Samso and he never saw the lighted
Speaker 3: day again. Now for killing Robin Samso, Alcala received the
Speaker 3: death sentence in nineteen eighty Yay, But we know that
Speaker 3: Alcala had been slippery before when he served such a
Speaker 3: ridiculously light sentence for its violent crimes against Tali Shapiro
Speaker 3: because the Shapiro family was out of the country during
Speaker 3: his trial. Here too, with Robin SAMSO's trial, Alkalo was
Speaker 3: slippery once again. I guess terrible people can have good luck.
Speaker 3: Six years after his death sentence for killing Samso So
Speaker 3: In nineteen eighty six, it was decided that scumbag Alcala
Speaker 3: had received an unfair trial. His legal team argued that
Speaker 3: the jury had been improperly told about Alcala's past sex crimes,
Speaker 3: including the attack on Tali Shapiro, which clouded their judgment,
Speaker 3: which lat led to an unfair verdict and therefore his
Speaker 3: death sentence was overturned. A second trial for the kidnapping
Speaker 3: and murder of Robin Samso was held, in which Robin's mother,
Speaker 3: Marianne Conley had to testify and face Alcala again. She
Speaker 3: did in the first trial. Now she's facing her child's
Speaker 3: killer again in the second trial. Now it was later
Speaker 3: discovered that Marianne, Robin's mother, brought a twenty five caliber
Speaker 3: pistol to the trial. She was going to murder Alcala,
Speaker 3: but ultimately decided against it. Now, thankfully, just justice system
Speaker 3: work and Alkalo was found guilty a second time and
Speaker 3: was served another death sentence. Now that a second judgment
Speaker 3: had been handed down, with another death sentence, Rodney Alcala
Speaker 3: had the right to appeal, and of course he did
Speaker 3: through working appeals and the justice system in two thousand
Speaker 3: and one, So twenty two years after he murdered Robin Samso,
Speaker 3: a federal court of appeals overturned Alcala's death sentence again,
Speaker 3: now for the second time, based on Alcala's claim that
Speaker 3: he had evidence that would prove his innocence, but he
Speaker 3: never got a chance to present it in court. This
Speaker 3: fucker was about to get off, But while Alcala's third
Speaker 3: trial was underway, police were working hard in the background.
Speaker 3: It's during this time police figured out through patterns, fingerprints,
Speaker 3: bite marks, and DNA that Alcala had in fact murdered
Speaker 3: Joe Barkham, Georgia Wicksted, and Charlotte Lamb. They also linked
Speaker 3: the murder of Joe Parento to him as well. Now
Speaker 3: the police could prove Alkala was the serial murderer they
Speaker 3: always thought him to be. In a hail Mary play.
Speaker 3: For Alkali's third trial, California prosecutors decided to try him
Speaker 3: for all five murders at once, that's Barkum, Wicksted, Lamb, Parento,
Speaker 3: and Robin Samso. In this trial, Alcala acted as his
Speaker 3: own attorney, really asking himself questions in the third person
Speaker 3: and answering himself in a much lower, creepy voice, just
Speaker 3: a circus show. He even called Robin SAMSO's mother to
Speaker 3: the stand. Could you imagine being that mother being questioned
Speaker 3: in open court by your own daughter's murderer. The ball's
Speaker 3: on this now. The third time around, there was a
Speaker 3: star witness, a specter from Alcala's past, Tali Shapiro. Tali
Speaker 3: captivated the jurors by recounting her harrowing story from back
Speaker 3: in nineteen sixty nine, what she could remember anyway, and
Speaker 3: on February twenty fifth, twenty ten, the jury found Alcala
Speaker 3: guilty on all five counts of capital murder, along with
Speaker 3: one count of kidnapping and four counts of rape. Good
Speaker 3: fuck this guy. The jury handed him another death sentence.
Speaker 3: The judge agreed, and this time it stuck. Alkala was
Speaker 3: sent to death row at San Quentin and then to
Speaker 3: California State Prison Cochrane, the same prison where Charles Manson
Speaker 3: was housed, and that's where his ass sat up until
Speaker 3: his death on July twenty fourth, twenty twenty one, from
Speaker 3: quote unspecified natural causes. He was seventy seven years old,
Speaker 3: and good writtens to that piece of shit. But this
Speaker 3: isn't the end of the story. In twenty ten, police
Speaker 3: released online a cash of over one hundred photos of men, women,
Speaker 3: and children seen as possible victims of Rodney Alcala. Shortly
Speaker 3: after his final arrest on July twenty fourth, nineteen seventy nine,
Speaker 3: for the kidnapping and murder of Robin Samso. While he
Speaker 3: was in jail, Alkala fucked up. You see, his sister
Speaker 3: came to see him, and while Alcala and his sister
Speaker 3: were visiting with each other, he told her about a
Speaker 3: storage locker he kept in Seattle, and he begged her
Speaker 3: go to the locker, clean it out, get rid of everything.
Speaker 3: But little did Alkala know this entire conversation was being recorded.
Speaker 3: The police now had a hot tip, and actually, while
Speaker 3: the police were searching his mother's house where Alkala was
Speaker 3: staying when he murdered Robin Samso, they found a receipt
Speaker 3: for that storage locker in Seattle. Now, the contents of
Speaker 3: this locker is what's keeping the Alkala story alive to
Speaker 3: this day and the new movie, of course, and what
Speaker 3: leads investigators to believe his actual murder count is much
Speaker 3: much higher than what he's charged for.
Speaker 1: Now we're getting there.
Speaker 3: Inside this Seattle storage locker, police found somewhere around a
Speaker 3: thousand highly suggestive and pornographic photos of mostly women and
Speaker 3: young girls and some little kids and a few men,
Speaker 3: which Alcala had taken over the years. He was posing
Speaker 3: as this fashion photographer, so.
Speaker 1: He took these personally. Oh yeah, oh my god.
Speaker 3: He was mad active, I mean, this was his thing. Now.
Speaker 3: Also in the storage locker, underneath all these illicit photos,
Speaker 3: police found a silk bag, this little silk bag filled
Speaker 3: of earrings. He was keeping trophies on. One set of
Speaker 3: earrings was later proven to belong to Robin Samso, and
Speaker 3: a second pair of earrings with tiny roses would years
Speaker 3: later reveal Charlotte Lamb's DNA. They got this guy, I
Speaker 3: mean lockstock Enberrel And of course Lamb was the woman
Speaker 3: found murdered and posed in her apartment complex's laundry room
Speaker 3: in Al Sagundo, California, back in seventy eight. Now, the
Speaker 3: photos that could be released online are out there right now,
Speaker 3: and they're available to view, and I'll leave a link
Speaker 3: in the show notes to these photos. Now, listeners, please
Speaker 3: check out the pictures and don't worry. It's nothing that'll
Speaker 3: give you nightmares. Pg. Thirteen. At best, police hope that
Speaker 3: by putting these photos online, someone will recognize a friend
Speaker 3: or a loved one and alert authorities to that person's
Speaker 3: current status. Are they alive, are they dead? Are they
Speaker 3: in order to help identi possible additional victims. Now, of course,
Speaker 3: Alcola didn't keep detailed records and the photos are decades
Speaker 3: old from the seventies, mostly so the people in the
Speaker 3: pictures are really lost to time. No names, no locations,
Speaker 3: nothing now. So far, twenty two women have been identified
Speaker 3: since the pictures were posted, and thankfully, twenty one of
Speaker 3: those women are still alive. But unfortunately, a woman named
Speaker 3: Kathy Thornton saw her missing sister among the online photos.
Speaker 3: Through working with police and mitochondrial DNA evidence, Kathy Thornton
Speaker 3: discovered that Alkala did in fact kill her sister, Christine Thornton,
Speaker 3: in Wyoming in nineteen seventy seven. Christine Thornton was six
Speaker 3: months pregnant at the time of her murder. So the
Speaker 3: photos do work and they have revealed an additional victim.
Speaker 3: Who knows how many people this animal really killed? Remember
Speaker 3: he was a traveler. Now again, there's a link to
Speaker 3: the photos in the show notes, do you recognize any
Speaker 3: of these people? If you have information about anyone in
Speaker 3: the photos, police asks that you contact Sergeant Sam Shepherd
Speaker 3: with the Huntington Police Huntington Beach Police Department at seven
Speaker 3: one four, five three six, five nine four seven. That's
Speaker 3: Sam Shepherd seven one four, five three six, five nine
Speaker 3: four seven. Take a look at the photos. See if
Speaker 3: you know anybody. It's fucked up. So that's how they
Speaker 3: get that big gap. He's got his confirmed kills, and
Speaker 3: then this and and.
Speaker 1: Now they discover that this archive is not filled with
Speaker 1: just dead women or dead victims, because a lot of
Speaker 1: these are alive. So yeah, yeah, so he played up
Speaker 1: his role just to probably make money move on. Maybe
Speaker 1: couldn't find the right opportunity at most of these places
Speaker 1: as well. You think of that, maybe they come with
Speaker 1: chaperones and it's too hard.
Speaker 3: Well yeah, well that's funny because this last one, Christine Thornton,
Speaker 3: the one who was six months pregnant at the time. Yeah,
Speaker 3: she was kind of a wanderer, kind of a loose
Speaker 3: spirit if you will. Her sister said sure, And she
Speaker 3: was with a man who was abusing her and somehow
Speaker 3: during travels Christine's and Rodney's travels. They met, Christine dumbed
Speaker 3: her abusive boyfriend and wound up kind of traveling around
Speaker 3: with Rodney. And the picture her sister saw online is
Speaker 3: of Christine on a motorcycle. She's got a big smile
Speaker 3: on her face. She looked good. Yeah, you know, she
Speaker 3: just happened to not know who this person she happened
Speaker 3: to be traveling with really was and fucking killed her. Wow,
Speaker 3: that sucks, fucked up. It's this is such a such
Speaker 3: a shitty story.
Speaker 2: Man.
Speaker 1: No, yeah, he's a piece of shit.
Speaker 3: They know.
Speaker 1: Also, he's not very smart. I'm not Stephen saying I
Speaker 1: almost don't get me wrong, once sixty IQ not saying
Speaker 1: not nothing. Obviously it's not.
Speaker 3: Nothing to sneeze at it at one sixty.
Speaker 1: That but uh, he made a lot of mistakes, a
Speaker 1: lot of mistakes than not. He are really forgivable in
Speaker 1: the seventies. DNA evidence is he is forgivable because that
Speaker 1: that technology is invented.
Speaker 3: Yet he's that's okay, So then what's not forgivable?
Speaker 1: The brazen attitude of some of these places and victims.
Speaker 1: He sounded like the way he acted around that girl,
Speaker 1: like the one before he got the one before he
Speaker 1: got captured. I forgot a name. I'm sorry. You know
Speaker 1: what the adults saw her with her friend that gave
Speaker 1: a good description of him.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Robin Sansu and like Wilvert.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like there's ways to do that.
Speaker 3: It's just fucking broad daylight, broad daylight, broad fucking daylight.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 1: There were other details that I forgot to exactly remember.
Speaker 1: But he is making mistakes a lot actually, like he
Speaker 1: is beholden and brazen, like he is too comfortable and
Speaker 1: thinking he's getting away. But he's been cop before too,
Speaker 1: by the way, should be said he's been caught before. Yes,
Speaker 1: It's almost like it's almost like he feels like his
Speaker 1: power is that he'll get away with a murder, is
Speaker 1: that he could get a murder that he commits knocked
Speaker 1: down to a misdemeanor. It's almost like his power is
Speaker 1: like his charm, his whatever, his genius looks whatever. Maybe
Speaker 1: it serves him best in the judicial system than it
Speaker 1: does on the streets or with people on the streets,
Speaker 1: or with potential victims or victims families. I mean, where
Speaker 1: is this brazen that is coming from?
Speaker 3: I would hope it's not the judicial system, that's for sure.
Speaker 1: Well obviously on to at least two occasions that I'm
Speaker 1: out when they shouldn't have one of them.
Speaker 3: And let him travel when he shouldn't have.
Speaker 1: That's a big one. That's a big one. Huge. It
Speaker 1: just seems like a lot of stuff is more to
Speaker 1: be to just luck. And I'm not saying charming genius
Speaker 1: or sorry, charming cleverness don't hold hands together. They do,
Speaker 1: but they're also two different things. I don't know. I
Speaker 1: feel like pretty dumb for a smart guy.
Speaker 3: No, you're right, you're right, you know, maybe he's book smart.
Speaker 1: Obviously, obviously there is different kinds of you know, smart,
Speaker 1: like you just mentioned, different kinds of whatever. I just
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know this guy. There's another
Speaker 1: thing mentioned way earlier. Yeah, and you're gonna hate You're
Speaker 1: gonna love this because it's gonna make you scroll up again.
Speaker 1: Well maybe not, maybe not. When you were talking earlier
Speaker 1: on his career before he started killing about his uh,
Speaker 1: when he turned seventeen eighteen, he went to the military, Yes,
Speaker 1: and then he got I don't know, I assumed dishonorably discharged.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure what you said. It doesn't matter. It
Speaker 1: doesn't matter.
Speaker 3: I had just said discharged, discharge.
Speaker 1: I wasn't sure if it was dishonorably, but he he
Speaker 1: had done something.
Speaker 3: So there was some sexual devency, yeah.
Speaker 1: Which is not specified, which makes sense. Yeah, this could
Speaker 1: be because it's homosexual related either get rumor or reel.
Speaker 1: Or it could be something else like a Barrack's bunny thing,
Speaker 1: which probably wasn't existing back then.
Speaker 3: I do, but Barrack's bunny. Yeah, there's not a lot
Speaker 3: of talk about him being homosexual or anything.
Speaker 1: Wait.
Speaker 3: No, he did have male photo male posing for photos,
Speaker 3: but it's never it's never explicitly said that he also
Speaker 3: had sex with men.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because that could also be a legit shoot for money.
Speaker 3: I do think he thought he was a legitimate photographer. Yes, yeah,
Speaker 3: some of his pictures are good. I've seen him. Some
Speaker 3: of them are good. But it never says he was
Speaker 3: specifically gay. So I don't know.
Speaker 1: Well, I want to feel like if that's the real
Speaker 1: first sign, right, Oh, I think definitely, And you mentioned
Speaker 1: so right after that he I think definitely.
Speaker 3: The military thing was the first sign.
Speaker 1: He joined the arts right before he cracks and then
Speaker 1: starts peaking and start graduate becoming the wandering serial killer.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he wandered, he graduated and correct, Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, after the military, you know, which is a short
Speaker 1: time after but after it, after the military. I kind
Speaker 1: of think, and again maybe this could be in the movie.
Speaker 1: I don't know, but what it's me when you mentioned
Speaker 1: that before he started killing, he became a wandering serial killer,
Speaker 1: which is all the rage in the seventies.
Speaker 3: By the way, it really was.
Speaker 1: It really was. I said it as a joke, but
Speaker 1: it's so true. Is that what if what made him
Speaker 1: crack was a piece like a piece of art, you know,
Speaker 1: like because like we talked about his childhood, nothing there.
Speaker 3: Really not really nothing there right now.
Speaker 1: We're we're attributing to something about the military regarding this,
Speaker 1: But then he probably would have been disarmly discharged if
Speaker 1: it was that bad, as opposed to like maybe not
Speaker 1: really think so I don't think that's enough either. And
Speaker 1: I feel like the not the not the U turn,
Speaker 1: not the one to eighty, but the ninety degree turn
Speaker 1: he made from his time in the arts, meaning learning
Speaker 1: photography or whatever, into becoming a serial killer or trying
Speaker 1: to be or killing is or trying to kill that
Speaker 1: a young girl. Uh, I feel like, what if something
Speaker 1: broke him artistically, because it seems like.
Speaker 3: The expand on that what it was interesting because they
Speaker 3: say it wasn't Hitler a failed artist. He was all
Speaker 3: depressed because he couldn't be that's a artist, and then
Speaker 3: he moved into Public's good.
Speaker 1: Any connection I can make with Hitler is great. I
Speaker 1: didn't think of that that's good. I mean, yeah, that
Speaker 1: could be enough Avenue. I was thinking more like he
Speaker 1: saw something. No, I'm not saying in his own art.
Speaker 3: Well, don't forget he was also with Polanski. He was
Speaker 3: studying under Polanski for a while too. Well he was Oh,
Speaker 3: that's when he went to n YU though, that's when
Speaker 3: he went to n YU.
Speaker 1: That was after. This is when he was escaped, after
Speaker 1: after his first attempt. Yeah, this after the breaking point,
Speaker 1: and he probably just, I don't know, got tips on
Speaker 1: how to talk to young girls from Plansky. Sorry not sorry,
Speaker 1: it's true. It's true, great filmmaker, but it's goddamn he's
Speaker 1: a piece of shit anyway. So I'm thinking like, oh, so, right,
Speaker 1: be one thing that at the failed artist thing broke him?
Speaker 1: Like he saw it early on. Manson Kazza has that
Speaker 1: too with the music career and just fucking broke them
Speaker 1: and you know, started slaking his thirst, so to speak,
Speaker 1: his urges right instead and just going for that the
Speaker 1: focused zero. Then it could be that which the connection
Speaker 1: to the connective tissue to that is the way. Uh
Speaker 1: sure what I forgot her named the dating gang girl
Speaker 1: denied him saw Bradshaw My bad When Bradshaw denied him
Speaker 1: could be like a second fail, you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: Like a like you could connect those two the way
Speaker 1: he overreacted, the way, like the way he picked his
Speaker 1: victims from that point on, the way he kind of
Speaker 1: showed his hand by trying something so brazen as going
Speaker 1: on the dating game, like it knocked them down a
Speaker 1: few notches, the way the arts thing knocked them down
Speaker 1: a few notches. I feel like those two connect.
Speaker 3: It's interesting and that could wonder.
Speaker 1: That could be something or where I was originally thinking,
Speaker 1: which is less likely now that I'm talking, is that
Speaker 1: what if he saw a piece of art. I don't
Speaker 1: know what kind of it's la right, So they have
Speaker 1: museums to have a lot of things, They have a
Speaker 1: lot of personal things. Students are making shit all the time.
Speaker 1: What if he saw something that broke him, Like maybe
Speaker 1: he saw talent way beyond what he feels he could
Speaker 1: have done, you know, something like that, or something more personal,
Speaker 1: he saw something that reminded him something awful about himself,
Speaker 1: you know, something much more like this is this is
Speaker 1: where it gets cinematic and not be realistic. But like,
Speaker 1: what if he saw something reminded of mouth sucked up
Speaker 1: he is and just trying it just went forward like
Speaker 1: kind of inspired him to kill I don't know, I
Speaker 1: kind of had that these because the way again, ninety
Speaker 1: degree turned that one to eighty, but.
Speaker 3: To the seventies were weird time, weird time. There were
Speaker 3: some weird shit in the seventies.
Speaker 1: Trust me, there's no way he's never high in this decade.
Speaker 3: No, no, no way, all the time.
Speaker 1: No way, He's never not you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3: It's uh fucking I don't know.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, what do you do when what happens
Speaker 3: when a genius psychopath gets knocked down a few rungs? Yeah,
Speaker 3: fuck God help.
Speaker 1: They usually overreact. I'm usually to get themselves caught. But
Speaker 1: they also have a lot of damage along the way.
Speaker 1: You know, they do a lot of carnage on the
Speaker 1: way out.
Speaker 3: I'm saying, I can't wait to see this movie. I
Speaker 3: can't wait to see now that I've researched this too.
Speaker 1: I hope you're not hyping up too much. I don't
Speaker 1: know how good it's gonna be.
Speaker 3: I don't know. I don't know. That's what I'm saying,
Speaker 3: now that I researched this thing to death, this topic,
Speaker 3: you know, seeing the movie, I can't wait to see
Speaker 3: what's what they talked about, what's not talked about, what's
Speaker 3: brought up? You know. But I mean, we'll we'll let
Speaker 3: you know what we think of the movie. Are you
Speaker 3: gonna watch it?
Speaker 1: I mean yeah, I am now, yes for sure. I
Speaker 1: don't even know it existed until.
Speaker 3: When I heard it and Kendrick IM like, I'm watching it.
Speaker 3: I don't even know what the fuck it was about, right,
Speaker 3: but yep, I'm in right. Katie's like, that's that's terrible,
Speaker 3: You're terrible.
Speaker 1: Did you see trap? She didn't.
Speaker 3: I saw her eyes peeled the entire time, didn't look
Speaker 3: at her phone once Josh whip his ass.
Speaker 1: He was a sarracad in that movie, Whip your ass.
Speaker 1: It was all right, that's all I got on there.
Speaker 3: Yeah, me too. Just think this guy's dead fuck him. Yeah, cheeseburger.
Speaker 1: I love how you mention that over and over. That's great.
Speaker 1: He's actually been the motor to Hamburger.
Speaker 3: Cheese, no cheese, veggie burgery.
Speaker 1: Man, you got it, Cale Burger. Okay, we're done now.
Speaker 3: Merry Christmas listeners.
Speaker 1: Oh yes, Merry Christmas.
Speaker 3: We will see you when you see an oscar take
Speaker 3: us home. Yeah. So Game of Thrones, that's that was
Speaker 3: our big thing. We're watching the new Menendez show. That's
Speaker 3: pretty good. Remember than Menendez Brothers in the early nineties.
Speaker 3: Rich kids killed their family, killed their mom and dad.
Speaker 1: Oh I saw. I saw the thumbnail for this. I
Speaker 1: haven't seen it. I don't know crime ship most of
Speaker 1: the time. Oh okay, they don't give a ship.
Speaker 3: Yeah then yeah, they won't like it.
Speaker 1: Then, my god, like it. If you write it, I
Speaker 1: gonna like. I think.
Speaker 3: What a Tulsa King stallone? Probably not interested.
Speaker 1: No, but I know that the new season's coming up
Speaker 1: because I've been seen trailers. It's out and they finished Evil.
Speaker 1: I was great.
Speaker 3: You like the ending.
Speaker 1: I love the end.
Speaker 3: Hated the ending? Why because nothing happened? Literally nothing happened.
Speaker 1: I mean she goes to the back, went to Rome.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but Leland's still out there kicking.
Speaker 1: Wasn't he like taking away?
Speaker 3: Yeah, but you don't know what happened to him. He's gone, No,
Speaker 3: I don't think so, I don't know.
Speaker 1: Well, also, like they leave it open, propose there's a
Speaker 1: whole thing where you know, they wanted to leave things
Speaker 1: open because they're like, well, he was never really dead.
Speaker 1: But like there's also talking about season five now, well,
Speaker 1: I mean that's what people are rallying for it. Well,
Speaker 1: that's I just don't know.
Speaker 3: I just wanted more. Nothing really happened with David.
Speaker 1: He's wanted to fuck. You know, like two characters that
Speaker 1: you ship in a show fuck. As soon as they fucked,
Speaker 1: the show becomes uninteresting.
Speaker 3: Really, maybe you're right, Ben, what happened to Ben the Magnificent?
Speaker 1: I don't remember.
Speaker 3: I don't remember either, Like the whole thing was the
Speaker 3: fun I.
Speaker 1: Mean I did see this a month ago, so I
Speaker 1: don't remember.
Speaker 3: Now, aner the whole thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he was saying that the man nothing happened. No,
Speaker 1: he did something. I just remember what it was.
Speaker 3: Well, he got this job that was paying him like
Speaker 3: three hundred and fifty thousand dollars a year, half a
Speaker 3: million a year or something like that.
Speaker 1: That's all right, I remember that.
Speaker 3: Nothing that was like, oh this is great, we invested
Speaker 3: all this time and there's a payoff. Well, I didn't
Speaker 3: feel like there was a payoff.
Speaker 1: Well, I think he's the truth skeptic right of the show.
Speaker 1: Who yeah, I mean if he starts believing out of nowhere,
Speaker 1: I would have not found that believable either.
Speaker 3: He was coming close.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he was close for sure. So what else?
Speaker 3: Movies? What movies did we see? We Trap?
Speaker 1: I love Trap?
Speaker 3: Trap is okay? Trap?
Speaker 1: I mean I can no, no, I'll tell you it's
Speaker 1: a terrible movie. I love it. It's awful. I didn't
Speaker 1: have so many mistakes.
Speaker 3: I didn't think it was awful.
Speaker 1: Why people say it's awful and every time they give up,
Speaker 1: you know, like this is awful and this is up,
Speaker 1: Like I totally buy it.
Speaker 3: We understand what were some examples.
Speaker 1: Which are so many things in the movie is so unrealistic.
Speaker 1: It's so unreal it's so laughably unrealistic. But I had
Speaker 1: so much fun with attention that I didn't care and
Speaker 1: I loved it was But like and in the high
Speaker 1: water mark, being like they let him hug his daughter
Speaker 1: at the end, or let him fix the bike off
Speaker 1: the lawn, like why why has he not any police
Speaker 1: escort on the way to the wise alone? It's so dumb.
Speaker 1: I get it, it's dumb. I had a blast.
Speaker 3: Though that that's the least of my worries.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but there's a lot of ship like tim saying.
Speaker 3: So it's night shamala emending though.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Right, So I was waiting for that twist. Man, I'm
Speaker 3: waiting for the twist, and I'm like, okay, no.
Speaker 1: It's not really twisted. The twisty thing is that you
Speaker 1: find out that well, that could be a twisty thing,
Speaker 1: but no, I was the only real twisty thing in
Speaker 1: the movie is that I thought the movie was going
Speaker 1: to take place entirely on the concert and then they
Speaker 1: moved away. They have a fourth act on the at
Speaker 1: the house, and yeah, that was cool. I didn't expect it.
Speaker 3: Oh see, I didn't consider that a twist.
Speaker 1: No, that's not twisted. Neither is the wife thing that she's.
Speaker 3: The one who found the ticket and turned it in
Speaker 3: and blah blah blah.
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess it kind of plays twist.
Speaker 3: But not a Shyamalan twist.
Speaker 1: No, no, not a temon.
Speaker 3: So my whole thing was I was having fun with
Speaker 3: it because everything fell into place for Josh Hart and
Speaker 3: it's character.
Speaker 1: To a tee.
Speaker 3: Every single time, every a door opens, a card just
Speaker 3: happens to be laying there. The apron that he stole
Speaker 3: happens to have a wall in it, and oh, there's
Speaker 3: the secret card that we were given, you know, at
Speaker 3: the debriefing, and you know, he meets the black dude
Speaker 3: who gives him the word.
Speaker 1: I think the worst of that every time you do
Speaker 1: on the radio. He had perfect information for there hed
Speaker 1: it that was like the word.
Speaker 3: So I was like, Okay, this is so outlandish. This
Speaker 3: has to be part of the twist. That the twist
Speaker 3: is he's writing or not.
Speaker 1: That's why you thought it was just okay, because you
Speaker 1: thought it was building into something. You're giving m I
Speaker 1: too much writerly credit. He doesn't care about that.
Speaker 3: Well, back in the early two thousands, that's or late nineties,
Speaker 3: that's what he was.
Speaker 1: Well in the late nineties, we also had shittier movies.
Speaker 1: I think we were just like so used to a
Speaker 1: certain kind of movies. And we're so used to different
Speaker 1: kinds of movies.
Speaker 3: Now, when was Shemelin's Heyday?
Speaker 1: Early? Two thousands?
Speaker 3: Early?
Speaker 1: Okay, because ineteen ninety nine was with six Sense came out?
Speaker 3: Okay, there are two thousand, it's right. So yeah, all
Speaker 3: those twists were like mind blowing.
Speaker 1: Mane because we're also dumber as cinema cinema goals. Maybe
Speaker 1: we'll tell you we were. I'll tell you we were,
Speaker 1: and think about the best movies of that era and
Speaker 1: how dumb they are if you look back at him,
Speaker 1: so dumb, so many errors were. We're used much more
Speaker 1: sophisticated plotting. We're not great at the emotion stuff. The
Speaker 1: nights are much better at that, but we're so much
Speaker 1: better at plotting stuff, making things sense, making things tension.
Speaker 1: We're so much better at that now, something that m
Speaker 1: Night was the grandfather of. But that not so much anymore.
Speaker 1: We just had so many better, wow, more tightly packed stuff.
Speaker 1: But he also doesn't care about that. He likes the shlockiness.
Speaker 1: He likes being kind of like Scream, the first Scream,
Speaker 1: kind of like being a slasher. I know it's not
Speaker 1: a slasher, but like he likes being in that way.
Speaker 1: I think I personally think he needs a partner to
Speaker 1: settle him down so you can write a little better,
Speaker 1: Because you're right, his dieg is not great. I hate
Speaker 1: he puts himself in the movies. I don't like any
Speaker 1: of this stuff. Well well I hate it and a
Speaker 1: few times it makes the movie worse. Not always, but
Speaker 1: and then but and with with Trap, it's like I
Speaker 1: just felt I just like like I was.
Speaker 3: In the mood you know it was. Or there's another one, yeah,
Speaker 3: Josh Harten and all these twenty thousand people, he just
Speaker 3: happens to turn around and there's the Brad's uncle and
Speaker 3: it happens to be m Night.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's another thing.
Speaker 3: He's like, oh, hey, my daughter was dying.
Speaker 2: She's not.
Speaker 3: Oh why don't you come backstage? So watching the movie
Speaker 3: with this in mind, where okay, this is so outlanded.
Speaker 1: What would be the reason though, what like this twist
Speaker 1: that you.
Speaker 3: Are I don't know, Like the guy's fucking laid up
Speaker 3: in the hospital or it's m Night right in the
Speaker 3: book and this is in his mind or whatever it is,
Speaker 3: there's some big reveal if that was gonna hatch Why
Speaker 3: all these things just wanting to fall into place.
Speaker 1: I would have bought a table just to flip it.
Speaker 3: During the movie I was in. I was watching it.
Speaker 3: I was like, oh yeah, this is cool. Something thing's
Speaker 3: gonna happen.
Speaker 1: This makes no I mean the biggest thing was a nepotism.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, who was I forgot a name. Someone
Speaker 3: told me that it's like a commercial for his daughter.
Speaker 1: It's like, yeah, oh no, it is.
Speaker 3: That's her.
Speaker 1: M Shaymon's daughter is the singer the Lady, and she
Speaker 1: wants to be a pop idol singer in real life.
Speaker 3: Oh she does.
Speaker 1: And those are her real songs that you listen to
Speaker 1: the whole movie. So you're listening to an album for
Speaker 1: free or for the move for a price.
Speaker 3: Of a movie.
Speaker 1: He's like, good, you know what I'm saying. I guess
Speaker 1: so he's trying to help her. It wasn't Oh no,
Speaker 1: I don't know anything about pop music. I didn't care either.
Speaker 1: I'm just saying that's a super movie. I'm just saying
Speaker 1: it's very blatant.
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh one hundred.
Speaker 1: That's all I mean. I don't think it's terrible. Like whatever,
Speaker 1: you have power, go do it, you have money, go
Speaker 1: do it.
Speaker 3: What I would do it with my kid. But after
Speaker 3: anything was done and I realized, hey, there's no twist here.
Speaker 3: Now none of this ship makes sense, and I was angry.
Speaker 1: See I was fine with it not making sense in
Speaker 1: the moment, and I was like, let's just go with
Speaker 1: it because I wasn't hoping for a big twist.
Speaker 3: I guess, so there was a difference I was waiting.
Speaker 1: Or at least the twist I was hoping for had
Speaker 1: nothing to do with why the movie's written badly. I
Speaker 1: mean I like that and some of that stuff was
Speaker 1: cool though, like when he pushes that girl to see
Speaker 1: the reaction of the cops and they don't move because
Speaker 1: they have other cops to do that, so they're not
Speaker 1: going to move from the entrance so he can't escape.
Speaker 1: I'm like, that's a cool move. That's a cool time.
Speaker 1: I think the way he talks his way out of
Speaker 1: the cops when he's like when they're doing a briefing
Speaker 1: thing and he gets in there like, oh the sugar
Speaker 1: down here, Like I thought that was cool too. The
Speaker 1: way he acts some good moments, great moments. But yeah,
Speaker 1: overall the movies also super silly. No cop on the planet,
Speaker 1: whatever stage a trap on this magnitude nothing well nothing,
Speaker 1: The concept is so ridiculous.
Speaker 3: It's all off of a ticket stub.
Speaker 1: A dumb ass ticket stuf that that I mean that.
Speaker 1: I guess that may explain why it felt like a
Speaker 1: twist when you find out the wife did it, because
Speaker 1: that comes back later. But yeah, it's a dumb reason.
Speaker 1: Why would they think that it's not enough? Also with
Speaker 1: the point in that, because we review on the show,
Speaker 1: the point of the thing we argued about the most
Speaker 1: was I was pissed that we didn't get enough of
Speaker 1: the f pive profiler because they were making her off
Speaker 1: to be like the super smart person, but we get
Speaker 1: no evidence of that, And I really wanted to know
Speaker 1: what would they have asked at the entrances that kept
Speaker 1: Josh Harten is so scared to be questioned, and like
Speaker 1: if he just showed us a little bit of that
Speaker 1: intelligence by these well, I would have bought into it more.
Speaker 1: I was like, that's is one of the clients I had.
Speaker 3: Well, especially because that profiler is a famous actress from
Speaker 3: the Hayley Mills from the Parent Parent Trip. Yeah, I
Speaker 3: mean that's who.
Speaker 1: Are you texting people? Everyone go to sleep?
Speaker 3: Well, I hear the chair it was like almost the
Speaker 3: same exact title, right, so we're like, oh my god,
Speaker 3: it's like Downar ninety nine on vod or whatever. Let's
Speaker 3: rent it. Okay, it was the worst B movie, piece
Speaker 3: of shit. They completely just took advantage of the name.
Speaker 1: That's how they get you.
Speaker 3: And we were so mad. So now it's out and
Speaker 3: so I'm going to get that one. That what else?
Speaker 3: Horror wise?
Speaker 1: Nothing I told you about this great movie. I tested
Speaker 1: you about it. Oddity.
Speaker 3: Oh we did see Oddity?
Speaker 1: Did you like it? It was okay? Okay, movie man,
Speaker 1: I love that movie.
Speaker 3: Really.
Speaker 1: Everything paid off about it. Everything was perfectly set up
Speaker 1: from the very beginning. Everything worked out. There's no like
Speaker 1: loose thread in the movie.
Speaker 3: You didn't want to see more than dummy.
Speaker 1: No, we got enough.
Speaker 3: Really Yeah, just sitting there.
Speaker 1: I think working detention. I think I feel like, whatever
Speaker 1: the budget was, maybe they couldn't show it with us
Speaker 1: looking too hokey. I feel like like the Jaws effect,
Speaker 1: the less you show, the more horroring it is. So
Speaker 1: I felt like it was fine that way. It is
Speaker 1: technically an indie movie, so, like you know, they probably
Speaker 1: couldn't do.
Speaker 3: A whole lot.
Speaker 1: We didn't know, and if they and if they had
Speaker 1: to ceg the whole thing, it might have looked funny.
Speaker 2: Humm.
Speaker 1: You know, I liked that it was sitting there, It
Speaker 1: was real there, it was tactile. For me. It was
Speaker 1: enough for me.
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, so I guess for me it wasn't. Everyone
Speaker 3: was saying it's the scariest movie of the year, it's
Speaker 3: the best movie.
Speaker 1: I'm not saying that, but I I thought it was
Speaker 1: pretty creepy.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I guess maybe, I guess.
Speaker 1: I just I mean that whole thing with the sister
Speaker 1: and jump, don't open the door or that was that was?
Speaker 1: I love that.
Speaker 3: Scene the crazy Eye. Ye, yeah, we saw it. I didn't.
Speaker 3: I liked it when I watched it again.
Speaker 1: No, I wouldn't.
Speaker 3: But yeah, what else? What other horror?
Speaker 4: Oh?
Speaker 1: I mean I actually looked in my been watching.
Speaker 2: So much?
Speaker 1: All right, So I did see Fidoh. I saw Zombie
Speaker 1: Flash Shooters, but that's from seventy nine. I saw Never
Speaker 1: Let Go With.
Speaker 3: How was it?
Speaker 1: It was okay?
Speaker 3: It looked the previews look really good.
Speaker 1: No, it asked retty good tension. It has really good scenes.
Speaker 3: Watchers that was a while ago. I saw Watchers for
Speaker 3: some reason that movie reminded me of Watchers, both in the.
Speaker 1: Forest I can't leave this also both in the forest
Speaker 1: and the forest. Uh yeah, I like that movie too.
Speaker 1: I say, Never Let Go is I think better film,
Speaker 1: like better made, but I think it falls apart with
Speaker 1: the ending. I don't think I liked.
Speaker 3: It really, I liked it. I liked I liked Watchers.
Speaker 1: No, I'm in Never Let Go. No, No, I like,
Speaker 1: you know, the Watches was more even the whole time.
Speaker 1: It was like even, Yeah, it was cool, Like the
Speaker 1: whole thing with the Ferio is cool. Yeah, let's see.
Speaker 1: I saw The Last Stop in Newma County is not
Speaker 1: a horror, but that's a very good movie. Really, it's
Speaker 1: like a crime movie. I guess, uh almost entire movie.
Speaker 1: He's based in this like shitty diner in the middle
Speaker 1: of nowhere. It's about this guy who is putt is going,
Speaker 1: uh stops at this diners thatched to a gas station.
Speaker 1: He wants to put gas in it, but they don't
Speaker 1: have any gas. They're waiting for the truck. The truck
Speaker 1: is late, and they gave if you want to wait
Speaker 1: to go into the diner. Right And as he's waiting,
Speaker 1: there's chatting up with the waitress there. All these people
Speaker 1: start coming in, including uh and you said you hear
Speaker 1: on the radio that earlier in the morning a bank
Speaker 1: was robbed, like a bank robbery, and the bank robbers
Speaker 1: need gas and they stop in the diner, right, and
Speaker 1: they get found out, so they start kid, you know,
Speaker 1: having people hostage until the gas truck arrives. And it's
Speaker 1: just a mountain tension that just keeps tension, tension, tensine
Speaker 1: until the ending. I'm not gonna spoil it, but that's
Speaker 1: a very good movie.
Speaker 3: It's a new one.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, well a few months ago. But yeah, I
Speaker 1: did see Spaceman. Forgot about that spaceman that's uh, what's
Speaker 1: his name?
Speaker 3: The Mexican dude.
Speaker 1: No, there was a space with No you think of
Speaker 1: a sling shot. Maybe not.
Speaker 3: He he's been in a ton of stuff.
Speaker 1: I don't know his spaceman is with uh a little nikky?
Speaker 1: Was this guy's name Adam Sandler?
Speaker 3: Oh, with a big spider.
Speaker 1: Yes, I didn't like that movie. You didn't like it?
Speaker 3: I did not?
Speaker 1: Oh? I did like it?
Speaker 3: Did I love it? I guess I just missed the
Speaker 3: whole prime. I guess I just missed the point. Maybe
Speaker 3: oh maybe I was tired. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I did not like I enjoyed that one. Who are
Speaker 1: you thinking of though?
Speaker 3: It's a I can't think of it, And now, of
Speaker 3: course I can't think of a movie that the hispanic
Speaker 3: dude's been in.
Speaker 1: That's funny. I did see Blink twice.
Speaker 3: Blink twice.
Speaker 1: That was good. Is it might still be in theaters.
Speaker 3: I'm not sure who's who's in that.
Speaker 1: Shot. Quat that's her name.
Speaker 3: I know I've heard of Bling twice.
Speaker 1: Channing Tatum is the bigger name in that movie.
Speaker 3: He takes him off to the island.
Speaker 1: Yes, that's the movie.
Speaker 3: It was good, very good. Really.
Speaker 1: A lot of people are not hailing it, talking about
Speaker 1: like Irreverend, like, oh my god, there's this crazy, fucking
Speaker 1: like traumatic rape scene or I saw it. It's not
Speaker 1: that traumatic, okay, but also I've seen way worse. So
Speaker 1: like I thought it was pretty tame, Like I thought
Speaker 1: it was, not that it has to be amazing, but
Speaker 1: people were talking about it as if it were I'm like, guys,
Speaker 1: come on, I've seen compliance. Not that that shows it either,
Speaker 1: but that felt worse. M No, but Bulling Toys was
Speaker 1: a very cool, very cool movie, very cool again and
Speaker 1: it's like it is a horror kind of thriller stuff,
Speaker 1: but it's also very like it's funny along the way.
Speaker 1: It doesn't try to be just one genre. It tries
Speaker 1: to like kind of be fun with it cool. Strange, Darling, guys,
Speaker 1: when that comes out on already watched it. Strange. Don't
Speaker 1: even read into it unless you know the better. This
Speaker 1: is literally a spoiler if you know one thing, like,
Speaker 1: that's an amazing movie. We view that movie took. Yeah,
Speaker 1: this is a show strange. Listen to the show.
Speaker 3: Have you seen Cuckoo?
Speaker 1: I did say Cuckoo?
Speaker 3: What did you think was good?
Speaker 1: I thought it was good, not great? Though, where's Cuckoo
Speaker 1: on here?
Speaker 2: Damn?
Speaker 3: That's out now too? We want to rent that one.
Speaker 1: Oh, you know what, that's so funny. I never added
Speaker 1: Cuckoo to my list of things I watched.
Speaker 3: M Have you seen have you heard about this? Milk
Speaker 3: and Cereal?
Speaker 4: No?
Speaker 1: What's that?
Speaker 3: Did I text you about it? Milk and Cereal? It's
Speaker 3: a movie on YouTube. It was done for like eight
Speaker 3: hundred bucks. And you know now they're saying this kid
Speaker 3: who directed, he's a comedian, he's a comedy. He made
Speaker 3: it big on YouTube with comedy skits, but now he's
Speaker 3: into directing horror short films and things for YouTube and
Speaker 3: Milk and Cereal. It was really fucking good for eight
Speaker 3: hundred bucks fro an eight hundred dollars budget with these
Speaker 3: guys were able to pull off. And now, I mean
Speaker 3: it's got the attention of like everybody people in Hollywood.
Speaker 3: You know, they're milk and cereal and it's cereal like
Speaker 3: Serial Killer with s c R I A L.
Speaker 1: Milk Cereal. Mom.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it's very good. It's very good. Watch our
Speaker 3: our ish that goes back quick? Oh well everything htes
Speaker 3: Oh God, Jesus take the wheel.
Speaker 1: I see demons.
Speaker 3: I'm just gonna let's start there. Okay, let's do this.
Speaker 1: Five was that n this cage and gone sixty seconds?
Speaker 3: Well I can see him he's doing something like that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, he doesn't. Gone second, Let's do this, Let's
Speaker 1: go or something like that. Five four three two