WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.280 --> 00:00:02.960 Oh kay, it's that friend who never carries a purse, 2 00:00:03.000 --> 00:00:06.559 which must feel so liberating. But also she always asks 3 00:00:06.599 --> 00:00:09.640 you to keep her lipstick in your purse and you're like, well, okay, 4 00:00:09.720 --> 00:00:14.080 I mean sure. Ali Ward back with another episode of Ologies. Boy, 5 00:00:14.080 --> 00:00:17.039 Howdy hot, damn you all this one is. It's super exciting. 6 00:00:17.160 --> 00:00:20.839 This is like introducing someone to their future spouse. Like 7 00:00:20.920 --> 00:00:24.320 you're about to not know what hit you. Okay, First, 8 00:00:24.559 --> 00:00:26.519 I'm going to hit you with a thank you. Thank 9 00:00:26.559 --> 00:00:29.640 you to everyone on patreon dot com, slash ologies who 10 00:00:29.679 --> 00:00:32.200 supports a show so I keep making it and for 11 00:00:32.359 --> 00:00:35.560 submitting all of your excellent, rapid fire around questions to 12 00:00:35.600 --> 00:00:38.399 the ologists. Also thank you to everyone tuning into the 13 00:00:38.439 --> 00:00:42.000 new Netflix science show I'm on called Brainchild. It's really weird, 14 00:00:42.079 --> 00:00:44.079 it's really funny. You do not have to have kids 15 00:00:44.159 --> 00:00:46.600 to like it. Feel free to tweet about it using 16 00:00:46.640 --> 00:00:51.039 the hashtag Brainchild and hopefully we'll make another season. Let's 17 00:00:51.079 --> 00:00:53.880 just make a little noise, okay. Also, thank you ologites 18 00:00:53.920 --> 00:00:58.759 for exchanging your money for merch at ologiesmerch dot com 19 00:00:59.119 --> 00:01:02.359 and for spreading the word. Thank you for zero dollar 20 00:01:02.399 --> 00:01:05.680 support just telling your Instagram and Twitter friends or the 21 00:01:05.760 --> 00:01:10.120 lady who drives the ice cream truck about the podcast. Rating, reviewing, 22 00:01:10.159 --> 00:01:11.640 subscribing keeps this thing up in. 23 00:01:11.640 --> 00:01:12.879 The charts every week. 24 00:01:12.920 --> 00:01:15.920 I read you a very piping hot tongue burner of 25 00:01:15.959 --> 00:01:17.959 a review fresh off the press. 26 00:01:19.040 --> 00:01:19.480 We speak. 27 00:01:19.560 --> 00:01:24.319 Painted Novus says, this podcast is the Cloaca of science facts. 28 00:01:24.519 --> 00:01:26.400 It's got a little bit of everything going on. I 29 00:01:26.439 --> 00:01:29.000 can't stop talking about trees and squid arms and the 30 00:01:29.079 --> 00:01:32.599 long long life span of sharks. I'm putting a solitary 31 00:01:32.680 --> 00:01:35.599 bee house in my yard and fighting to overcome my 32 00:01:35.680 --> 00:01:39.680 fear of snakes and legless lizards. Thank you, Painted Novus. 33 00:01:40.599 --> 00:01:42.879 I think a snake would love to have you as 34 00:01:42.920 --> 00:01:47.560 a friend. To be honest, Okay, microbiology the workings of 35 00:01:47.599 --> 00:01:50.680 a live tiny little things. You're about to get to 36 00:01:50.680 --> 00:01:53.719 know yourself in a way that will shatter how you 37 00:01:53.760 --> 00:01:56.480 think of yourself as a beast and as a human. 38 00:01:56.799 --> 00:01:58.560 I'm so excited for all of us. 39 00:01:58.599 --> 00:01:58.920 Okay. 40 00:01:59.040 --> 00:02:03.079 Now, I had email this ologist repeatedly, creepily, over and 41 00:02:03.120 --> 00:02:05.920 over for the better part of six months. I thought 42 00:02:05.920 --> 00:02:08.759 this would never happen. Honestly, I had pretty much given 43 00:02:08.800 --> 00:02:11.840 up hope until we finally found a time we could 44 00:02:11.879 --> 00:02:14.960 boastit down in her office on the UCLA campus where 45 00:02:14.960 --> 00:02:19.639 she runs her own microbiology lab. Also in her office 46 00:02:19.639 --> 00:02:21.919 on a couch a pillow in the shape of the 47 00:02:21.960 --> 00:02:25.039 poop emoji, but with hearts for eyes. True story the 48 00:02:25.080 --> 00:02:27.199 Ologies Instagram has proof seek it out. 49 00:02:27.560 --> 00:02:28.240 Okay, So this. 50 00:02:28.240 --> 00:02:32.080 Ologist has authored so many papers about the inner drama 51 00:02:32.319 --> 00:02:34.960 and triumphs of the critters that live in our guts 52 00:02:35.039 --> 00:02:39.879 and ostensibly make us us and I am in very unsubtle, 53 00:02:40.360 --> 00:02:43.639 very obvious awe of her work. I was freaking out. 54 00:02:43.919 --> 00:02:46.680 I was also very sweaty and frazzled because even though 55 00:02:46.719 --> 00:02:49.319 I got to campus half an hour early, the parking 56 00:02:50.120 --> 00:02:53.639 was a hellscape, and I walked into her lab fifteen 57 00:02:53.719 --> 00:02:56.520 minutes late. Did you do the math on that, because 58 00:02:56.520 --> 00:02:59.039 that means it took me forty five minutes to park. 59 00:02:59.120 --> 00:03:01.800 You're correct, so that was mortifying. But as you will 60 00:03:01.840 --> 00:03:03.560 soon discover, she is chill as hell. 61 00:03:03.879 --> 00:03:06.800 She wasn't even mad at me. So please pat. 62 00:03:06.599 --> 00:03:10.759 Your belly and let the trillions of tiny, invisible friends 63 00:03:10.759 --> 00:03:13.879 who control your mind get ready to listen to gut 64 00:03:13.960 --> 00:03:37.560 biome expert and microbiologist doctor Elaine Shao. Once again, I'm 65 00:03:37.560 --> 00:03:38.719 sorry that I'm so sweating. 66 00:03:38.879 --> 00:03:43.319 No, I like to arrive moist to my interviews. Just Dewey, 67 00:03:43.719 --> 00:03:44.879 And what is your title? 68 00:03:45.400 --> 00:03:49.400 It's assistant professor in Integrative biology and Physiology. 69 00:03:49.680 --> 00:03:51.879 Oh, a lot of ologies. 70 00:03:51.840 --> 00:03:52.080 I know. 71 00:03:52.120 --> 00:03:53.840 I was going to say, do you think that you 72 00:03:54.000 --> 00:03:59.639 are molecular biologist, a microbiologist, physiologist? 73 00:03:59.680 --> 00:04:00.840 What would you call yourself? 74 00:04:01.120 --> 00:04:05.919 I am a crisis ologist, I in to many things. Yeah, 75 00:04:06.199 --> 00:04:09.520 so our work touches on microbiology, but we also use 76 00:04:09.639 --> 00:04:14.319 molecular biology approaches, and it also touches on neurobiology. 77 00:04:15.159 --> 00:04:18.519 We'll go with microbiology. We're just we're going with microbiology 78 00:04:18.639 --> 00:04:21.319 because you're like one of those D and D dice 79 00:04:21.439 --> 00:04:23.720 with all those different facets. You're like a twenty sided 80 00:04:23.759 --> 00:04:27.079 oh DND dice pretty much. Oh man, that was too nerdy, 81 00:04:27.120 --> 00:04:27.519 too soon. 82 00:04:27.920 --> 00:04:30.439 When did you decide that biology was for you? 83 00:04:31.480 --> 00:04:31.800 Yeah? 84 00:04:31.839 --> 00:04:35.680 So I did choose a biology related major. So I 85 00:04:35.800 --> 00:04:38.319 had to make the decision in high school. To be honest, 86 00:04:38.360 --> 00:04:40.879 at the time, it wasn't that informed. I wasn't one 87 00:04:40.920 --> 00:04:44.920 of those kids that just love science forever know, nobody. 88 00:04:44.560 --> 00:04:45.759 In my family does science. 89 00:04:46.680 --> 00:04:50.720 I was really into other things like performing arts and music. 90 00:04:51.360 --> 00:04:53.480 But I just thought that I had to choose. 91 00:04:53.319 --> 00:04:56.399 Something practical, and I'd just taken biology in high school 92 00:04:56.399 --> 00:04:59.079 and I thought it was neat, So that's my little 93 00:04:59.160 --> 00:05:02.000 choice at that moment. Thankfully, it turned out well, so 94 00:05:02.040 --> 00:05:02.839 I stuck with it. 95 00:05:02.879 --> 00:05:05.439 And now you have your own lab, which means that 96 00:05:05.920 --> 00:05:09.759 you're the boss, which is pretty dope. What was it like, 97 00:05:09.959 --> 00:05:12.519 Do they have a ribbon cutting ceremony? What happens when 98 00:05:12.519 --> 00:05:13.360 you get your own lab? 99 00:05:14.160 --> 00:05:15.600 There was no ribbon cutting. 100 00:05:15.839 --> 00:05:20.240 Basically, you get faced with an empty space and then 101 00:05:20.319 --> 00:05:23.399 you have your pot of money and then you just 102 00:05:23.519 --> 00:05:27.319 go and there's no instructions on how to set it up. 103 00:05:27.399 --> 00:05:31.240 So different labs will have different styles and you know, 104 00:05:31.360 --> 00:05:33.639 different structures, so it's really. 105 00:05:33.480 --> 00:05:34.000 Up to you. 106 00:05:34.439 --> 00:05:35.639 I mean, that's so boss. 107 00:05:35.879 --> 00:05:37.360 It's fun. It's really fun. 108 00:05:37.519 --> 00:05:37.720 Yeah. 109 00:05:37.800 --> 00:05:39.959 Did you think when you started out in biology that 110 00:05:40.040 --> 00:05:41.920 you would go this far with it? Did you think 111 00:05:41.959 --> 00:05:44.839 that you'd be kind of heading operations like this? 112 00:05:45.319 --> 00:05:45.759 No? 113 00:05:45.759 --> 00:05:49.800 No, Actually, I first decided to enter grad school because 114 00:05:49.800 --> 00:05:53.040 I thought that I really enjoyed teaching and that's all 115 00:05:53.079 --> 00:05:54.040 I wanted to do. 116 00:05:54.720 --> 00:05:55.639 And in the. 117 00:05:55.600 --> 00:06:00.319 First half of grad school I seriously considered dropping out, like. 118 00:06:00.399 --> 00:06:02.000 Not really doing well. 119 00:06:02.079 --> 00:06:06.720 Yeah, but afterward, you know, things started rolling and kind 120 00:06:06.720 --> 00:06:10.279 of got the hang of doing research and just really 121 00:06:10.319 --> 00:06:11.759 got sucked in and I really love it. 122 00:06:11.959 --> 00:06:12.240 Now. 123 00:06:12.439 --> 00:06:14.879 That's interesting though, that you were that there was a 124 00:06:15.079 --> 00:06:17.199 kind of a hump to get over and then you're like, okay, 125 00:06:17.279 --> 00:06:19.319 oh wow, I'm really good at this. Like you see 126 00:06:19.360 --> 00:06:21.600 people who are so successful in what they do and 127 00:06:21.639 --> 00:06:23.639 you think, oh, it must have just been kind of 128 00:06:23.680 --> 00:06:24.680 a straight path, you know. 129 00:06:24.800 --> 00:06:26.480 Yeah, not at all for me. 130 00:06:26.920 --> 00:06:29.360 But what really kept me in it is the science 131 00:06:29.480 --> 00:06:32.519 is a lot of fun. You know, there's a lot 132 00:06:32.519 --> 00:06:35.160 of room for creativity. You get to decide what you 133 00:06:35.199 --> 00:06:37.720 want to study, and you get to decide on what 134 00:06:37.759 --> 00:06:40.959 the important questions are, and then you get to decide 135 00:06:41.000 --> 00:06:43.199 on how you're going to try to answer those questions. 136 00:06:43.279 --> 00:06:45.519 So I find that it's really fun. 137 00:06:45.759 --> 00:06:46.160 Yeah. 138 00:06:46.480 --> 00:06:49.959 Elaine studied microbology during undergrad and at that time, the 139 00:06:50.040 --> 00:06:53.839 program's focus was really on the so called bad bugs 140 00:06:53.839 --> 00:06:55.519 that cause infectious disease. 141 00:06:55.920 --> 00:06:57.600 But then she became. 142 00:06:57.399 --> 00:07:02.360 Fascinated by the somewhat neglected study of for drama's sake, 143 00:07:02.560 --> 00:07:05.439 we'll just say the good guys, the helpful bugs. 144 00:07:05.680 --> 00:07:08.920 I was just watching this new field develop where more 145 00:07:08.959 --> 00:07:12.000 of the focus now is on good bugs rather than 146 00:07:12.040 --> 00:07:15.120 bad guys. The bad ones turn out to be super 147 00:07:15.199 --> 00:07:18.079 small portion of all the bacteria that are that are 148 00:07:18.120 --> 00:07:21.480 out there. So yeah, that's how I became interested. It's 149 00:07:21.560 --> 00:07:24.680 just watching the field develop and wanting to, you know, 150 00:07:24.759 --> 00:07:25.519 help explore. 151 00:07:25.879 --> 00:07:28.480 Yeah, and so we focus on these bad bugs because 152 00:07:28.480 --> 00:07:32.160 they can take us down. But meanwhile, how many things 153 00:07:32.240 --> 00:07:35.120 do we have living on and in us? Because there's 154 00:07:35.120 --> 00:07:37.560 always that number you hear that's like ten to one, 155 00:07:37.879 --> 00:07:41.240 because one of for every cell of yours there's maybe 156 00:07:41.360 --> 00:07:42.879 ten microorganisms. 157 00:07:42.920 --> 00:07:44.040 Is that total bullshit? 158 00:07:44.160 --> 00:07:45.519 I mean, no pun intended. 159 00:07:45.680 --> 00:07:48.240 You know, the actual numbers are a little bit fuzzy. 160 00:07:48.279 --> 00:07:50.120 It gets down the nitty gritty. It depends on what 161 00:07:50.160 --> 00:07:53.000 you count as a cell. So there are some cells 162 00:07:53.040 --> 00:07:56.079 that don't have a nucleus, so they don't have like 163 00:07:56.920 --> 00:07:59.240 the DNA that you're thinking of. If you had to 164 00:07:59.319 --> 00:08:03.240 give someone, like a dinner party estimate of how outnumbered 165 00:08:03.279 --> 00:08:06.000 you are, what would you say, Like, roughly, I would 166 00:08:06.040 --> 00:08:08.920 stick to the ten to one. I would actually I 167 00:08:08.959 --> 00:08:11.920 also just reference the raw number. The actual number that 168 00:08:12.000 --> 00:08:14.720 people have found based on sequencing is like one hundred 169 00:08:14.720 --> 00:08:18.160 trillion bacteria in your gut, Yeah, just in. 170 00:08:18.120 --> 00:08:19.879 Your gut, What about your nose and your eyes and 171 00:08:19.920 --> 00:08:22.360 your hair and your mouth and stuff. They're everywhere, and 172 00:08:22.360 --> 00:08:25.839 they're everywhere so quick aside, why do we call these 173 00:08:25.879 --> 00:08:27.000 bacteria bugs? 174 00:08:27.000 --> 00:08:27.399 Anyway? 175 00:08:27.680 --> 00:08:31.600 So the etymology of the word bug is ancient Welsh 176 00:08:31.920 --> 00:08:35.840 for ghost or goblin, which in this case kind of 177 00:08:35.840 --> 00:08:40.440 makes sense. You figure invisible, scary things that can exert 178 00:08:40.720 --> 00:08:45.279 mysterious forces on us. I mean, yeah, it tracks. So 179 00:08:45.519 --> 00:08:49.720 Elaine is essentially a ghost hunter who's just out looking 180 00:08:49.759 --> 00:08:53.440 for caspers. And so what makes a good bacteria versus 181 00:08:53.480 --> 00:08:54.440 a bad bacteria? 182 00:08:54.639 --> 00:08:55.919 Yeah, that's a good question. 183 00:08:56.039 --> 00:09:00.960 I mean, a very superficial level normal is that they 184 00:09:01.039 --> 00:09:02.559 don't actually cause disease. 185 00:09:03.919 --> 00:09:05.200 And now people. 186 00:09:05.039 --> 00:09:07.440 Are finding that the bugs that are in and on 187 00:09:07.559 --> 00:09:10.200 us that some of them play really important roles. Like 188 00:09:10.240 --> 00:09:13.559 there's some bugs that help us digest things that we 189 00:09:13.600 --> 00:09:16.639 wouldn't otherwise be able to digest, Like there's no way, 190 00:09:17.080 --> 00:09:20.440 like the complicated fibers in your granola bar, there's no 191 00:09:20.519 --> 00:09:23.000 way ourselves could actually digest that ourselves. 192 00:09:23.240 --> 00:09:25.519 We rely on bugs to help us do it. 193 00:09:25.840 --> 00:09:28.679 Yeah, So if there are certain foods you can't eat, 194 00:09:28.720 --> 00:09:30.200 do you think you just need better bugs? 195 00:09:30.600 --> 00:09:31.440 That's a good question. 196 00:09:31.559 --> 00:09:35.120 I think, you know, some people are actually studying that, 197 00:09:35.440 --> 00:09:39.600 and yeah, I think that's an active area of research. 198 00:09:39.960 --> 00:09:40.639 Interesting. 199 00:09:40.759 --> 00:09:43.519 Okay, going back to going back to your research a 200 00:09:43.559 --> 00:09:47.840 little bit. Was there anything at the intersection of biology 201 00:09:47.879 --> 00:09:52.120 and psychology that really intrigued you? How are you studying 202 00:09:52.159 --> 00:09:55.200 all these different ways that our stomachs and our guts, 203 00:09:55.320 --> 00:09:56.559 our intestines affect our brain. 204 00:09:56.600 --> 00:10:00.639 That's nuts, that's so cool. What was it that intrigue 205 00:10:00.639 --> 00:10:01.159 you about that? 206 00:10:01.480 --> 00:10:04.440 Yeah, the same thing that you're mentioning is what really 207 00:10:04.480 --> 00:10:08.240 sucked me in. I started grad school not really intending 208 00:10:08.279 --> 00:10:11.679 to study bacteria at all. We were studying in my lab. 209 00:10:12.559 --> 00:10:15.600 My mentor's name was Paul Patterson at Caltech, and he 210 00:10:15.679 --> 00:10:19.679 kind of pioneered these animal models for studying autism and 211 00:10:19.759 --> 00:10:24.440 also animal models for studying schizophrenia. And it was really 212 00:10:24.519 --> 00:10:27.080 just noticing that at the time, if I changed the 213 00:10:27.120 --> 00:10:30.200 microbiome somehow, that these mice started behaving differently. 214 00:10:30.360 --> 00:10:33.080 Oh my gosh, It's like, oh this is really weird. 215 00:10:33.320 --> 00:10:35.559 I can't stop. I'm getting sucked into this. 216 00:10:35.679 --> 00:10:36.600 I need to know why. 217 00:10:37.600 --> 00:10:41.799 I mean, so, we're puppets to a bunch of strangers, 218 00:10:41.960 --> 00:10:45.120 friendly strangers that are living like in our colons. 219 00:10:45.240 --> 00:10:46.679 Essentially, you could. 220 00:10:46.480 --> 00:10:48.840 Put it that way, but the lines are getting blurred. 221 00:10:48.840 --> 00:10:51.399 It's like, do you count them as strangers or do 222 00:10:51.440 --> 00:10:53.759 you also count them as self? You know, there's no 223 00:10:53.960 --> 00:10:57.879 animals that don't there's no animals that exist without microbes, 224 00:10:57.919 --> 00:11:02.279 so some people like prefer to count them as part 225 00:11:02.320 --> 00:11:03.039 of yourself. 226 00:11:04.120 --> 00:11:08.159 I mean they're definitely close collaborators. Yeah, I'd have to say, well, 227 00:11:08.200 --> 00:11:10.360 it's a team effort over here, definitely. 228 00:11:10.519 --> 00:11:10.720 Yeah. 229 00:11:10.759 --> 00:11:13.240 I think that's the idea now, is that there's this 230 00:11:13.720 --> 00:11:16.919 maybe what people like to say, like, oh, coevolution. Then 231 00:11:17.000 --> 00:11:20.039 you know, we grew together and they do some things 232 00:11:20.120 --> 00:11:23.360 and we do some things, and it's this symbiosis. 233 00:11:23.559 --> 00:11:25.759 You know, it's so it's so bizarre, and it also 234 00:11:25.840 --> 00:11:27.519 makes you feel never lonely. 235 00:11:28.000 --> 00:11:32.039 Have one hundred jillion friends at least a big party. 236 00:11:32.360 --> 00:11:35.120 Yeah, you're that, You're a party bus is what I 237 00:11:35.200 --> 00:11:39.200 like to think of it. As can you explain to me. 238 00:11:39.159 --> 00:11:42.639 A little bit how the things that are living in 239 00:11:42.679 --> 00:11:45.399 your guts how they affect your brain? 240 00:11:45.960 --> 00:11:49.039 Yeah, that's a great question. At this point, the field 241 00:11:49.080 --> 00:11:52.320 is really excited just by you know, acknowledging that they 242 00:11:52.360 --> 00:11:56.240 do affect behaviors so most of it this work comes 243 00:11:56.240 --> 00:12:00.440 from animal studies, Like if you study mice or or 244 00:12:00.480 --> 00:12:04.000 flies or fish, if you get rid of the microbiome, 245 00:12:04.039 --> 00:12:07.320 then they start behaving differently, or if you change the microbiome, 246 00:12:07.360 --> 00:12:11.120 then they'll behave another way. And now labs are just 247 00:12:11.159 --> 00:12:13.360 trying to figure out how that happens. What are the 248 00:12:13.399 --> 00:12:16.879 signals that microbes are sending to us. Are they sending 249 00:12:16.919 --> 00:12:20.440 these signals to neurons, or are they seconding these signals 250 00:12:20.480 --> 00:12:23.840 that just float around and enter your brain, or are 251 00:12:23.840 --> 00:12:26.960 they sending signals to immune cells? So all of these 252 00:12:27.000 --> 00:12:28.279 different possibilities. 253 00:12:28.639 --> 00:12:31.679 So they might be putting out some kind of chemical, 254 00:12:31.759 --> 00:12:34.559 some kind of signal and your brain's like, oh, got it, 255 00:12:34.639 --> 00:12:36.320 ten four, I'll do that. 256 00:12:36.600 --> 00:12:37.600 Or they might just be. 257 00:12:37.679 --> 00:12:41.320 Like pooping out things and our brain is receiving them 258 00:12:41.360 --> 00:12:42.639 being like, oh, I think I'm going to go in 259 00:12:42.639 --> 00:12:45.960 this direction just from having them pass like a blood 260 00:12:46.159 --> 00:12:46.879 brain barrier. 261 00:12:47.000 --> 00:12:48.840 Is that it that works? Yeah, exactly. 262 00:12:49.000 --> 00:12:52.240 So that's a really good and that's a really good 263 00:12:52.279 --> 00:12:56.159 reference that some molecules that bacteria make can cross over. 264 00:12:56.679 --> 00:12:59.600 It can get absorbed into the intestine, can get into 265 00:12:59.639 --> 00:13:02.480 the blood stream, and some of them can enter the 266 00:13:02.480 --> 00:13:04.759 brain across this blood brain barrier. 267 00:13:05.320 --> 00:13:07.120 I don't even know what a blood brain barrier is, 268 00:13:07.159 --> 00:13:08.519 but I just said it because it sounded like I 269 00:13:08.559 --> 00:13:08.799 knew it. 270 00:13:08.840 --> 00:13:11.200 I was, Oh, really, it sounded like that. It was perfect. 271 00:13:11.559 --> 00:13:12.960 It was perfect. 272 00:13:13.120 --> 00:13:16.000 It's basically that not everything you know that's in the 273 00:13:16.000 --> 00:13:19.440 bloodstream enters the brain, and so there's this barrier like 274 00:13:20.000 --> 00:13:23.200 sandwiches of many cells that are there that kind of 275 00:13:23.240 --> 00:13:26.480 you know, are the gatekeepers of what can enter real quick. 276 00:13:26.639 --> 00:13:28.519 So I looked into this, and so the blood brain 277 00:13:28.559 --> 00:13:33.840 barrier is a semi permeable situation that happily lets in water, 278 00:13:34.200 --> 00:13:39.639 some gases glucose, which is delicious sugary think fuel. And 279 00:13:39.720 --> 00:13:43.879 in some cases, like with neurological disease or trauma or inflammation, 280 00:13:44.399 --> 00:13:47.720 this blood brain barrier can become more lax, kind of 281 00:13:47.799 --> 00:13:50.480 like a bouncer who gets distracted by their phone and 282 00:13:50.519 --> 00:13:57.320 starts admitting douchebags like toxoplasmosis, lime causing bacteria, syphilis, and 283 00:13:57.360 --> 00:14:01.279 other party runers. So you want the blood brain barrier 284 00:14:01.399 --> 00:14:04.879 alert and only letting in those folks on your guest list. 285 00:14:05.440 --> 00:14:09.399 Oof. Okay, so when you're looking at human beings. 286 00:14:09.600 --> 00:14:14.600 Are you like we are all maybe a little bit 287 00:14:14.799 --> 00:14:18.399 off of our rockers, just gently because our diets are 288 00:14:18.440 --> 00:14:21.759 maybe so different than they would be in the wild. 289 00:14:21.960 --> 00:14:24.279 Is there a really big correlation like the fact that 290 00:14:24.320 --> 00:14:27.440 we're eating honey crisps for breakfast and like a Venti 291 00:14:27.639 --> 00:14:29.919 frap for lunch, Like, is that really screwing us over 292 00:14:29.960 --> 00:14:30.279 a lot? 293 00:14:30.480 --> 00:14:33.679 So that's also a huge area of study in microbiome work, 294 00:14:33.759 --> 00:14:38.600 and other scientists have done these huge amazing studies. So 295 00:14:39.080 --> 00:14:44.039 for example, there's one Maria Domingos Bello and Rob Knight 296 00:14:44.159 --> 00:14:47.799 and a bunch of their colleagues where they sampled microbiomes 297 00:14:47.840 --> 00:14:51.440 from indigenous tribes of you know, people that have not 298 00:14:51.799 --> 00:14:56.399 had any exposure to any you know, modern medicine or 299 00:14:56.720 --> 00:15:00.919 our normal you know, what we consider Western lifestyles, and 300 00:15:01.039 --> 00:15:04.879 they basically find that they have these extremely diverse, super 301 00:15:05.000 --> 00:15:08.919 rich microbiomes with bugs that are there that are not 302 00:15:09.279 --> 00:15:12.720 seen in any people here in the US at least 303 00:15:12.759 --> 00:15:17.000 that they sample. And so there's this idea that maybe 304 00:15:17.039 --> 00:15:22.159 we've lost the diversity of microbes over time through things 305 00:15:22.240 --> 00:15:27.519 like our lifestyle and practices, our hygiene practices here, and 306 00:15:27.559 --> 00:15:31.200 that maybe it's a bad thing that could contribute to 307 00:15:31.240 --> 00:15:32.679 more like chronic diseases. 308 00:15:33.039 --> 00:15:35.919 Is there any truth that our serotonin is made largely 309 00:15:35.960 --> 00:15:36.919 in our intestines? 310 00:15:37.480 --> 00:15:38.679 Yeah? Absolutely. 311 00:15:38.799 --> 00:15:44.039 So that work was from Michael Gershon and he first 312 00:15:44.080 --> 00:15:48.279 published this finding that about ninety percent of the body's 313 00:15:48.320 --> 00:15:52.480 serotonin is made from gut cells. 314 00:15:52.559 --> 00:15:56.960 Yes, that's so many numbers, that's so much. 315 00:15:57.559 --> 00:16:00.000 It's made in our guts. It's just simmering in our 316 00:16:00.279 --> 00:16:02.919 in these big hoses full of poop down there. 317 00:16:03.039 --> 00:16:03.279 Yeah. 318 00:16:03.360 --> 00:16:06.360 Well, the gut is so cool. It's not just a container. 319 00:16:06.960 --> 00:16:10.519 It's really important that they hold poop, but they're really cool. 320 00:16:10.639 --> 00:16:13.159 There's actually a lot of neurons that are in there, 321 00:16:13.200 --> 00:16:15.799 maybe like five times more than in the spinal cord. 322 00:16:16.240 --> 00:16:16.480 Wow. 323 00:16:16.480 --> 00:16:20.039 So yeah, there's a lot of neurons that you know 324 00:16:20.120 --> 00:16:22.320 are there. It's one of the few organs that if 325 00:16:22.320 --> 00:16:24.200 you take it, if you sever it from the brain, 326 00:16:24.360 --> 00:16:25.639 it can work by itself. 327 00:16:26.679 --> 00:16:28.360 Yeah, oh my god. 328 00:16:28.600 --> 00:16:31.440 Okay, So, if ninety percent of your serotonin is made 329 00:16:31.440 --> 00:16:34.720 in your gut, what cells are pumping it out or 330 00:16:34.759 --> 00:16:36.360 is it the bacteria that are pumping it out? 331 00:16:36.679 --> 00:16:40.799 So there are these endocrine cells that are basically cells 332 00:16:40.799 --> 00:16:43.759 that are in the gut lining and their role is 333 00:16:43.799 --> 00:16:48.960 to make lots of serotonin and some hormones, so they 334 00:16:49.120 --> 00:16:52.679 do things like control your appetite, when you get full, 335 00:16:53.360 --> 00:16:57.759 when you feel nauseous, things like that. And yeah, what 336 00:16:58.000 --> 00:17:02.879 we found a couple years ago, oh, is that bacteria 337 00:17:03.000 --> 00:17:06.880 are really important for communicating with these cells to control 338 00:17:06.920 --> 00:17:09.200 how much serotonin is being made and released. 339 00:17:09.319 --> 00:17:13.359 Oh my god, my colon is blowing my mind right now. 340 00:17:13.759 --> 00:17:16.200 How do you ever look at like the way that 341 00:17:16.240 --> 00:17:18.839 we treat depression and anxiety and are you ever like 342 00:17:18.920 --> 00:17:20.079 on the sidelines being. 343 00:17:19.920 --> 00:17:21.440 Like you're doing it wrong. 344 00:17:21.720 --> 00:17:24.680 We wonder how much the gut plays a role even 345 00:17:24.839 --> 00:17:29.279 in side effects. So it's known that antidepressants have a 346 00:17:29.319 --> 00:17:32.920 lot of like GI related side effects. It's important to study, 347 00:17:33.079 --> 00:17:36.240 you know, how the systems interact. That being said, there 348 00:17:36.279 --> 00:17:39.319 are dedicated neurons in the brain that make the remaining 349 00:17:39.400 --> 00:17:42.440 you know, ten percent of serotonin of the body, and 350 00:17:42.519 --> 00:17:45.119 those are really important for depression too. 351 00:17:45.599 --> 00:17:47.680 But gosh, that sounds like when you think someone's the 352 00:17:47.720 --> 00:17:49.279 boss and then you find out that like it's the 353 00:17:49.440 --> 00:17:53.680 assistant does all the work, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, 354 00:17:54.359 --> 00:17:56.200 if you could just go ahead and make sure you. 355 00:17:56.240 --> 00:17:57.839 Do that from now on, that would be. 356 00:17:58.000 --> 00:18:01.119 Great because you'd think the brain, thanks for the serotonin. 357 00:18:01.200 --> 00:18:05.440 You're doing you're doing your job, but downstairs is just 358 00:18:05.480 --> 00:18:11.839 a serotonin factory. Yeah, how does serotonin even make us happy? 359 00:18:12.039 --> 00:18:15.000 Yeah, okay, that's a really good question. So in the brain, 360 00:18:15.279 --> 00:18:19.680 it's serotonin is a really important neurotransmitter and it's only 361 00:18:19.759 --> 00:18:24.759 made from certain neurons, so very select few of neurons 362 00:18:24.839 --> 00:18:29.160 make it. And so it's thought that these the serotonin 363 00:18:29.279 --> 00:18:34.279 will activate these circuits that are really important for things 364 00:18:34.319 --> 00:18:39.640 like reward and happiness. And yeah, that's how people think 365 00:18:39.720 --> 00:18:45.440 that works. And so with antidepressants, there's this way that 366 00:18:45.519 --> 00:18:48.640 when serotonin gets secreted, it'll get recycled and it'll get 367 00:18:48.680 --> 00:18:51.480 taken up by the cell that secreted it, and so 368 00:18:51.640 --> 00:18:56.680 antidepressants will block that reuptake. So basically you've got more 369 00:18:56.720 --> 00:19:00.759 outside that we'll just keep activating this circuit. And it's 370 00:19:00.759 --> 00:19:04.480 thought that's how antidepressants help, you know, boost activity of 371 00:19:04.519 --> 00:19:08.119 these like reward and things circuits that make you happy. 372 00:19:08.200 --> 00:19:11.200 Ultimately, and our animals are people who are depressed, do 373 00:19:11.240 --> 00:19:15.559 they have less serotonin than people who maybe aren't depressed. 374 00:19:15.920 --> 00:19:18.720 I think that's one thing that could happen. I feel 375 00:19:18.720 --> 00:19:22.480 like there's probably many different you know, pathways that contribute 376 00:19:22.480 --> 00:19:27.759 to depression. But yeah, decreases in serotonin are associated. 377 00:19:28.400 --> 00:19:31.079 Man, I feel like you're going to look back. We're 378 00:19:31.079 --> 00:19:33.160 all going to look back and be like, oh my gosh, 379 00:19:33.160 --> 00:19:36.720 it was so obvious, like what caused certain things? You know, 380 00:19:36.920 --> 00:19:39.279 when you look back at medical practices of your and 381 00:19:39.319 --> 00:19:40.359 you're like, that's horrible. 382 00:19:40.400 --> 00:19:41.279 How did we do that? 383 00:19:41.519 --> 00:19:46.480 Yeah, that might be that might apply with the vehicle 384 00:19:46.519 --> 00:19:47.960 translates right now. 385 00:19:48.000 --> 00:19:49.960 Maybe like remember the days you. 386 00:19:49.920 --> 00:19:52.559 Couldn't go to like a jiffy loop type of a 387 00:19:52.640 --> 00:19:54.880 situation where you just pop in. I'm just gonna pop 388 00:19:54.880 --> 00:19:57.680 in for a quick feak. Trans You're like, Okay, when 389 00:19:57.720 --> 00:20:00.359 you describe your job to someone who's never met you, 390 00:20:01.359 --> 00:20:03.559 how do you talk about it? 391 00:20:03.920 --> 00:20:05.200 Like, what do you say that you do? 392 00:20:06.079 --> 00:20:07.400 Yeah, that's a good question. 393 00:20:07.519 --> 00:20:10.920 It depends on I would probably give a boring answer 394 00:20:10.960 --> 00:20:12.960 about you know how. I'm a professor, I run a 395 00:20:13.000 --> 00:20:17.160 research lab and I teach. But to lab members, I 396 00:20:17.200 --> 00:20:19.759 often tell them that I'm the hype person of their work. 397 00:20:20.400 --> 00:20:26.160 They make really cool findings. I communicate the findings, I 398 00:20:26.200 --> 00:20:29.119 pitch the findings to try to get funding more funding 399 00:20:29.160 --> 00:20:31.680 for their work and so I'm kind of the hype 400 00:20:31.720 --> 00:20:33.279 person for what they discover. 401 00:20:33.519 --> 00:20:36.519