1 00:00:24,640 --> 00:00:27,160 Speaker 1: Welcome to episode ninety three of Get Out Alive, a 2 00:00:27,199 --> 00:00:29,800 podcast about animal attacks, why they happen, and how we 3 00:00:29,839 --> 00:00:33,439 can avoid them. This is a special episode. If you're 4 00:00:33,439 --> 00:00:35,600 a longtime listener, you know how often we talk about 5 00:00:35,640 --> 00:00:38,560 America's national parks, and more often than not, in those 6 00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:41,320 attack stories, park service workers are some of the first 7 00:00:41,359 --> 00:00:44,759 people to respond and give aid. As you're probably aware, 8 00:00:45,039 --> 00:00:48,560 there are so many more for service Park USA employees, 9 00:00:48,640 --> 00:00:51,240 and so many more that provide public services that we 10 00:00:51,280 --> 00:00:55,320 all benefit from. I am a former federal USDA Animal 11 00:00:55,359 --> 00:00:58,320 and Plant Health Inspection Service employee. It was my first 12 00:00:58,399 --> 00:01:00,840 job out of college, and without that job, I wouldn't 13 00:01:00,840 --> 00:01:03,759 have most of the things that I have today. In 14 00:01:03,799 --> 00:01:06,400 my time there, I help people who are experiencing problems 15 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:09,640 with wildlife and my coworkers, and I monitored for diseases 16 00:01:09,680 --> 00:01:13,120 like avian influenza and rabies, and we even vaccinated wildlife 17 00:01:13,159 --> 00:01:17,239 against rabies. The reason I'm talking about this is because 18 00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:20,519 currently in the United States, federal employees are under attack 19 00:01:20,599 --> 00:01:24,959 by the Trump administration. Since Valentine's Day this year. In February, 20 00:01:25,359 --> 00:01:28,519 tens of thousands of federal employees who were on probationary 21 00:01:28,599 --> 00:01:32,439 status were wrongfully and illegally terminated due to the Department 22 00:01:32,480 --> 00:01:36,439 of Government Efficiency also known as DOGE, headed by Elon Musk. 23 00:01:36,519 --> 00:01:40,400 For some reason, these terminations did not just affect the 24 00:01:40,439 --> 00:01:44,519 Park Service for service in USDA, it's everything the federal government, 25 00:01:44,760 --> 00:01:47,680 including the Department of Education, who is tasked with eliminating 26 00:01:47,799 --> 00:01:51,840 half their workforce, the Department of Veterans Affairs who needs 27 00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:56,159 to cut eighty thousand employees, and the Social Security Administration, 28 00:01:56,319 --> 00:02:01,079 whose employees were offered buyouts. A very twenty six memo 29 00:02:01,159 --> 00:02:05,400 from President Trump told federal agencies to identify quote statutorily 30 00:02:05,480 --> 00:02:10,159 mandated functions and seek to achieve five things. Number one, 31 00:02:10,599 --> 00:02:15,759 better service for the American people. Number two increased productivity. 32 00:02:15,800 --> 00:02:19,120 Three a significant reduction in the number of full time 33 00:02:19,159 --> 00:02:23,639 equivalent positions by eliminating positions that are quote unquote not required, 34 00:02:24,840 --> 00:02:29,479 a reduced real property footprint, and number five reduced budget 35 00:02:29,520 --> 00:02:33,520 top line. As you may be aware, especially if you 36 00:02:33,560 --> 00:02:36,680 are in the environmental or wildlife field, many agencies are 37 00:02:36,680 --> 00:02:39,960 already underfunded and understaffed. As much as it may not 38 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:42,280 seem like it, Sometimes the federal government is meant to 39 00:02:42,319 --> 00:02:46,599 serve us the people. National parks and forests belong to 40 00:02:46,719 --> 00:02:49,080 all of us and are some of very few public 41 00:02:49,080 --> 00:02:53,280 spaces left for us, and America's wildlife and wildlife is 42 00:02:53,280 --> 00:02:55,879 held in the public trust, meaning the state and federal 43 00:02:55,919 --> 00:02:59,199 governments may manage the wildlife for us, but America's wildlife 44 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:02,520 belongs to all all of us. Less employees to manage 45 00:03:02,520 --> 00:03:05,479 our public spaces and our wildlife is detrimental to us. 46 00:03:05,479 --> 00:03:09,719 All we are in what's being coined the sixth extinction, 47 00:03:10,080 --> 00:03:12,400 which is the current extinction event we are in, being 48 00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:16,680 primarily driven by humans. Current extinction rates are one hundred 49 00:03:16,759 --> 00:03:20,879 to even one thousand times pre human levels. At this point, 50 00:03:20,919 --> 00:03:24,000 a fourth of all species in the world are estimated 51 00:03:24,039 --> 00:03:27,919 to go extinct by twenty fifty. Since nineteen seventy, we 52 00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:31,960 have lost thirty nine percent of land based species, thirty 53 00:03:32,039 --> 00:03:36,240 nine percent of marine species, and seventy six percent of 54 00:03:36,280 --> 00:03:40,479 all freshwater animal species. In the time that you listen 55 00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:44,360 to this entire podcast episode, over nine thousand humans will 56 00:03:44,360 --> 00:03:48,759 be born and we will lose three species. We do 57 00:03:48,840 --> 00:03:52,000 not have the luxury of moving backwards. Twenty fifty is 58 00:03:52,039 --> 00:03:54,800 only twenty five years away. We need all the time 59 00:03:54,840 --> 00:03:57,599 and resources we can get to preserve our natural environment. 60 00:03:58,599 --> 00:04:00,919 Everything that you have, that you eat, that you drink 61 00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:04,639 is either grown from the ground or as mind, everything 62 00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:07,919 comes from the environment. If you're listening to this podcast, 63 00:04:07,960 --> 00:04:10,439 it's probably because you're interested in wildlife for nature in general. 64 00:04:10,479 --> 00:04:13,360 So I'm probably preaching to the choir here, but we 65 00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:16,199 cannot allow our federal government to act against us and 66 00:04:16,319 --> 00:04:19,759 act against our land and our wildlife because I want 67 00:04:19,759 --> 00:04:22,000 to do anything I can to help. In this episode 68 00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:24,600 and our next episode, I will be sharing stories from 69 00:04:24,639 --> 00:04:28,319 some of those federal employees who were wrongfully terminated. We'll 70 00:04:28,319 --> 00:04:30,240 hear the work that they were doing, the nature of 71 00:04:30,279 --> 00:04:33,959 their termination, and where we stand now. Today. We're going 72 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:36,920 to start by hearing from Alex Troutman, a former environmental 73 00:04:36,920 --> 00:04:40,600 protection specialist with the National Park Service. Alex is one 74 00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:42,800 of the employees who received a letter of termination on 75 00:04:42,839 --> 00:04:51,480 February fourteenth. This is his story. 76 00:04:54,079 --> 00:04:58,959 Speaker 2: Yeah, So my name is Alex Troutman, my pronoils are 77 00:04:59,240 --> 00:05:07,879 he young is, and I'm from Austelle, Georgia. I study biology, birds, wetlands, 78 00:05:08,279 --> 00:05:11,959 butterflies pretty much. I like to call myself a cult 79 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:18,560 tit biologist because all of my species and qualities are 80 00:05:18,639 --> 00:05:22,040 kind of cooled together. I'm not really focusing on one 81 00:05:22,639 --> 00:05:26,120 like type of species or one type of habitat all. 82 00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:29,240 My work has allowed me to work in many different 83 00:05:29,279 --> 00:05:33,839 habitats and work with many different species, even work in 84 00:05:33,879 --> 00:05:38,600 many different states as well as a few countries as well. 85 00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:41,000 Speaker 1: That's so cool. With other countries have you worked in? 86 00:05:41,399 --> 00:05:46,639 Speaker 2: So I did research for bats in Malaysia only I'm 87 00:05:46,639 --> 00:05:52,879 island of Borneo. I was there for about two roughly 88 00:05:52,959 --> 00:05:56,160 two months, so I'm doing bad research. And dabbled a 89 00:05:56,199 --> 00:05:59,439 little bit and and leaf litter studies, but most of 90 00:05:59,480 --> 00:06:03,720 the research for bats. And then I did a couple 91 00:06:04,560 --> 00:06:06,879 like really, I mean it's not really a lot, but 92 00:06:07,560 --> 00:06:13,759 a simple electro fishing for some fresh water fish in Australia. 93 00:06:14,399 --> 00:06:18,120 Just a form of like a demonstration accounts that's still work. 94 00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:19,079 Speaker 3: I guess that. 95 00:06:19,199 --> 00:06:23,879 Speaker 1: Counts so cool. Well, how did you end up in Malaysia? Like? 96 00:06:23,959 --> 00:06:25,519 How did that opportunity present itself? 97 00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:29,360 Speaker 2: It was something that almost didn't happen. It was right 98 00:06:29,399 --> 00:06:32,680 in between undergrad and trying to figure out my life. 99 00:06:33,160 --> 00:06:37,279 I saw a position on text am job board. The 100 00:06:37,639 --> 00:06:40,560 old version. I'm not really I'm familiar with IM. I 101 00:06:40,600 --> 00:06:44,519 don't like the new version. The old version was better anyways. 102 00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:48,120 On text am job board, I saw it and then 103 00:06:49,079 --> 00:06:53,240 it was a position. It said for early career scientists. 104 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:56,920 But I really didn't consider myself at that stage because 105 00:06:56,920 --> 00:06:59,759 I had been out of my undergrad for almost two 106 00:06:59,839 --> 00:07:00,360 year years. 107 00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:03,720 Speaker 3: So I didn't apply to it. And then a couple 108 00:07:03,759 --> 00:07:06,160 of friends sent me I'm like, hey, you should apply, 109 00:07:06,519 --> 00:07:08,079 and I was like, all right, well, if everyone's saying 110 00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:10,800 to me, let me apply and I see what it's about. 111 00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:11,800 So I applied. 112 00:07:12,439 --> 00:07:15,000 Speaker 2: When I got the position, the position was for a 113 00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:20,199 small mammal like team league, so I was like, okay, yeah, 114 00:07:20,439 --> 00:07:22,720 I'll apply to it. I did some small mental work 115 00:07:23,439 --> 00:07:26,560 and undergrad, working with one of our grad students, I'm 116 00:07:26,639 --> 00:07:31,279 looking at early successional habitat use by old phil mice 117 00:07:31,399 --> 00:07:35,040 before and after fires, and so I applied. 118 00:07:35,120 --> 00:07:37,000 Speaker 3: I got it. A couple of weeks later. 119 00:07:37,120 --> 00:07:39,360 Speaker 2: I was like, oh, like, we're starting to tell you 120 00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:43,120 like funny fell through for a small mountain project, so 121 00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:46,160 we switched you to the bat team. 122 00:07:46,879 --> 00:07:49,319 Speaker 3: Is that okay? And I was like, oh yeah, Like 123 00:07:49,439 --> 00:07:52,040 I'm not going to turn up the opportunity to one 124 00:07:52,120 --> 00:07:56,439 way for that accident, go do research on the other 125 00:07:56,519 --> 00:07:58,120 side of the world. So I was like, yeah, I'll 126 00:07:58,160 --> 00:08:00,839 still do it. So yeah, it's just a lot of 127 00:08:00,879 --> 00:08:04,160 people like encourage me to apply and not letting my 128 00:08:04,519 --> 00:08:08,360 own imposters syndrome get into my head as well. So 129 00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:12,120 that's what led me on other side of the world 130 00:08:12,360 --> 00:08:13,720 map whatever you want to call it. 131 00:08:14,199 --> 00:08:18,360 Speaker 1: So cool. So how has your relationship with nature been 132 00:08:18,399 --> 00:08:20,120 throughout your life? Like, were you always one of those 133 00:08:20,199 --> 00:08:22,639 kids I was outside turned over rocks looking at birds 134 00:08:22,680 --> 00:08:23,279 and stuff, or. 135 00:08:23,800 --> 00:08:27,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like nature husband in my life, like from 136 00:08:27,519 --> 00:08:29,639 the time I was born, Like I used to go 137 00:08:29,800 --> 00:08:33,960 fishing with my brothers, uncles and dad. I was lucky 138 00:08:34,039 --> 00:08:38,120 that my family actually had like we own our home 139 00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:41,799 and have like Atlanta. I think it's somewhere between like 140 00:08:42,159 --> 00:08:45,600 a little over a quarter to just over a half 141 00:08:45,720 --> 00:08:48,879 acre or so, but it has a creak in the back, 142 00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:51,200 and I would spend a lot of my childhood like 143 00:08:51,399 --> 00:08:55,320 fishing back there building somewhat like a down and then 144 00:08:55,480 --> 00:08:59,320 like looking for water lizards, which are salamanders. At the time, 145 00:08:59,840 --> 00:09:01,799 I know where they were. I just saw that there 146 00:09:01,879 --> 00:09:04,240 was looked like lizards and it was body of water, 147 00:09:04,639 --> 00:09:06,200 so we call it water lizards. So me and my 148 00:09:06,399 --> 00:09:09,879 friend I would do that for most of our days, 149 00:09:09,960 --> 00:09:12,679 like after school in elementary school. 150 00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:16,000 Speaker 3: And then around the same time, like. 151 00:09:16,080 --> 00:09:20,600 Speaker 2: I was getting interested in Stee Warren, Jeff Corn, Jack Handa, 152 00:09:20,759 --> 00:09:25,399 all the great conservationists and wildlife people. I man like 153 00:09:25,480 --> 00:09:28,679 I knew I wanted to do something in nature and 154 00:09:28,759 --> 00:09:32,240 work with wildlife, I really didn't know in what capacity. 155 00:09:33,759 --> 00:09:39,600 Undergrad I switched my major from biology pre vet to 156 00:09:39,759 --> 00:09:43,120 Middle RaSE Education minor an biology. That during that time 157 00:09:43,440 --> 00:09:49,720 I took two field classes field orientology and then mammology 158 00:09:49,879 --> 00:09:52,440 study of birds and then study of mammals. And I 159 00:09:52,559 --> 00:09:56,200 had two great mentors or well professors that they're my 160 00:09:56,320 --> 00:10:00,080 mentors now who are leading those classes, who like the 161 00:10:00,159 --> 00:10:03,000 show not only a passion for what they were doing son, 162 00:10:03,159 --> 00:10:05,159 but also a passion for us and make sure that 163 00:10:05,240 --> 00:10:07,840 we were actually learning. And that's why I realized, like, oh, 164 00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:11,320 like I can do research and be outside and work 165 00:10:11,360 --> 00:10:13,919 with animals and also potentially get paid to do it. 166 00:10:14,759 --> 00:10:18,559 So like I switched my major back to biology and 167 00:10:18,840 --> 00:10:20,679 with a focus in wildlife management. 168 00:10:21,240 --> 00:10:23,480 Speaker 3: And it was during that time that I also found 169 00:10:23,519 --> 00:10:27,200 out that like all the time like I was outside, 170 00:10:27,360 --> 00:10:31,919 like looking and listening at birds and four birds, that 171 00:10:32,080 --> 00:10:35,279 I was doing something called birding or bird watching. 172 00:10:35,399 --> 00:10:36,159 Speaker 1: I didn't know what it was. 173 00:10:36,279 --> 00:10:38,519 Speaker 3: I just knew I liked redtail hall so. 174 00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:43,120 Speaker 2: Like Sinel then so taking orthology, like I fell in 175 00:10:43,240 --> 00:10:46,720 love with the most beautiful duck on the wood duck. 176 00:10:47,480 --> 00:10:49,799 And after that, like I was doing how to do 177 00:10:49,840 --> 00:10:51,679 it for class, Like, well, let me just continue burdening 178 00:10:51,679 --> 00:10:52,480 and see what it's about. 179 00:10:53,159 --> 00:10:54,639 Speaker 3: And I was hooked. 180 00:10:55,559 --> 00:10:58,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, I've been following you for years now, and I 181 00:10:58,039 --> 00:11:00,360 think that's how I first found you, was through birding. 182 00:11:00,480 --> 00:11:02,840 And then I was like, also, his last name is Troutman, 183 00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:05,480 which is the perfect name for a biologist. I'm sure 184 00:11:05,480 --> 00:11:05,840 you get that. 185 00:11:05,879 --> 00:11:07,120 Speaker 3: All the time, right, Yeah. 186 00:11:07,320 --> 00:11:13,519 Speaker 2: I was destined for her. Yeah, yeah, it's funny. Everyone 187 00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:16,080 asked me like, do you like to fish? And then 188 00:11:16,200 --> 00:11:18,320 they're like, oh, you must work with fish. 189 00:11:18,360 --> 00:11:18,679 Speaker 3: She was. 190 00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:22,720 Speaker 2: Up until last year, I haven't worked with fish. It 191 00:11:22,879 --> 00:11:27,840 wasn't until like I got the fellowship that I actually 192 00:11:27,879 --> 00:11:30,960 started doing some fish work. And like it was it 193 00:11:31,039 --> 00:11:33,279 was a runny joke with me and some of my 194 00:11:33,519 --> 00:11:35,360 like friends. One of my other mentors, he was like, 195 00:11:35,720 --> 00:11:38,600 you should go your whole life and never work with fish. 196 00:11:39,039 --> 00:11:47,080 Speaker 3: Yeah. I enjoyed it, so. 197 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:53,799 Speaker 1: How has your job journey been post graduation and how 198 00:11:53,919 --> 00:11:56,159 did it lead you to the most recent job that 199 00:11:56,279 --> 00:11:56,600 you had. 200 00:11:57,279 --> 00:12:01,879 Speaker 2: Yeah, So after graduation, I they got a job or 201 00:12:02,559 --> 00:12:06,799 an internship with the Student Conservation Association and America Corps. 202 00:12:07,600 --> 00:12:11,759 And there I was a park ranger for Allegany County, 203 00:12:11,840 --> 00:12:16,240 which is Pittsburgh and they have nine county parks and 204 00:12:16,720 --> 00:12:19,519 like my team was a corpse team, so we was 205 00:12:20,919 --> 00:12:24,200 broken up into two different teams, the North County in 206 00:12:24,279 --> 00:12:26,200 South County and I was in the South County. 207 00:12:26,679 --> 00:12:29,240 Speaker 3: So I helped manage five with Accounting parks. 208 00:12:29,559 --> 00:12:33,120 Speaker 2: Did that for just over a year, and most of 209 00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:36,879 our job was to just get people to one know 210 00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:39,080 more about the green spaces that they have with the 211 00:12:39,080 --> 00:12:42,639 accounting parks and then actually utilize it and then like 212 00:12:42,879 --> 00:12:46,159 do programming. So I did a lot of nature hikes, 213 00:12:47,039 --> 00:12:50,399 led boy Scouts and went to the school group, talked 214 00:12:50,399 --> 00:12:55,639 about pollinators, did defense mechanism hikes, did some owl and 215 00:12:55,840 --> 00:12:57,240 bat hikes as well. 216 00:12:58,159 --> 00:12:59,879 Speaker 3: So I did that for about a year. 217 00:13:00,639 --> 00:13:02,919 Speaker 2: And that's kind of why I figure out that I'm 218 00:13:02,960 --> 00:13:04,840 good at communicating science. 219 00:13:05,440 --> 00:13:08,480 Speaker 3: Before that, like I liked science and talking about animals, 220 00:13:08,519 --> 00:13:11,080 but I didn't realize like how good I was at it, 221 00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:14,279 and also that could actually do it because I really 222 00:13:14,279 --> 00:13:16,840 didn't like talking. I was a little shy, but that 223 00:13:17,039 --> 00:13:20,960 made me do it. After that job, I went home 224 00:13:21,039 --> 00:13:25,879 and worked with Atlanta at Georgia Aquarium as an educator 225 00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:30,519 for both of those different organizations, leading school groups throughout 226 00:13:30,559 --> 00:13:35,519 the aquarium and talking about different conservational issues. And then 227 00:13:35,559 --> 00:13:38,679 at the aquarium also leading school groups, but also doing 228 00:13:38,799 --> 00:13:41,399 like overnight events where you can like stay at the 229 00:13:41,519 --> 00:13:45,240 zoo and do night like ventures around the zoo and 230 00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:48,960 see some animals and utilize like some are night vision 231 00:13:49,039 --> 00:13:52,720 goggles to see like I caught it leopard at most 232 00:13:52,759 --> 00:13:56,240 of the time was hiding that we could see it. 233 00:13:56,840 --> 00:13:59,279 So I did that for about roughly I. 234 00:13:59,240 --> 00:14:03,000 Speaker 2: Guess around eight or nine months, and then I finally 235 00:14:03,080 --> 00:14:06,360 got a job with the federal government after like applying 236 00:14:07,559 --> 00:14:11,799 for years or almostly two years from the time I 237 00:14:11,919 --> 00:14:16,360 graduated to actually finally get an interview and then getting 238 00:14:16,399 --> 00:14:19,080 a job. But I got a job with a fishing 239 00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:24,360 wild Life service and New Richmond, Wisconsin, like it's a 240 00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:27,320 smaller town that even people from Wisconsin don't know where 241 00:14:27,360 --> 00:14:31,480 it's at, but it's on the border of Minnesota and Wisconsin, 242 00:14:32,200 --> 00:14:36,480 but I went up there did habitat management work, and 243 00:14:37,080 --> 00:14:41,480 the main focus was doing habitat management and restoration for 244 00:14:41,639 --> 00:14:44,559 a small butterfly called the corner blue butterfly. It's a 245 00:14:45,320 --> 00:14:48,360 dangerous species that used to be throughout the whole state 246 00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:53,799 of Wisconsin and even leading into some of the Eastern 247 00:14:53,919 --> 00:14:57,679 and North Eastern states, but now it's like have different 248 00:14:57,720 --> 00:15:01,759 hot spots throughout those states. It's extra paid or locally 249 00:15:01,840 --> 00:15:04,720 as stink in the region. So I did that for 250 00:15:04,840 --> 00:15:08,840 about a year and then applied for a position with 251 00:15:08,919 --> 00:15:12,440 the National Park Service doing seaturt work, on which I 252 00:15:12,519 --> 00:15:15,120 really didn't think I was gonna get in my mind, 253 00:15:15,360 --> 00:15:17,799 like I never started I would work with sea turtles 254 00:15:17,840 --> 00:15:20,639 because at that time I wasn't going on the boat 255 00:15:20,879 --> 00:15:23,840 out in the middle of the ocean to look for them, 256 00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:26,320 and I didn't think that they would come up to me. 257 00:15:27,279 --> 00:15:30,360 Speaker 3: So then I started working with sea turtles. Fell in 258 00:15:30,440 --> 00:15:33,799 love with the best sea turtles, the Kim's Radley sea turtles. 259 00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:37,399 They're my favorite because they're they're kind of like me there. 260 00:15:38,279 --> 00:15:43,279 They're misfit, not really under understood, and then they just 261 00:15:43,399 --> 00:15:46,519 like break out all the like social norms like sea turtles. 262 00:15:46,960 --> 00:15:50,759 They folks to the nests at night, but the Kim's 263 00:15:50,799 --> 00:15:52,480 ray they never sturing the day. 264 00:15:52,679 --> 00:15:55,759 Speaker 2: They're the smallest sea turtle species. And then they also 265 00:15:57,200 --> 00:16:00,399 one one of a few groups that nests or nesting 266 00:16:00,519 --> 00:16:04,159 like large groups caravadus. So I did that work for 267 00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:07,840 two different seasons and then I left and went to 268 00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:12,559 Borneo and did bat work. Finished my season and like 269 00:16:12,840 --> 00:16:17,120 June like eighth and June tenths, I was heading to 270 00:16:17,279 --> 00:16:21,279 Borneo on like things like the first fight was like 271 00:16:21,440 --> 00:16:24,480 eighteen hours or so, and then had to find another 272 00:16:24,679 --> 00:16:28,320 like eight or so hours, then like a three hour 273 00:16:28,399 --> 00:16:32,039 of ride. But yeah, so I did Borneo. I did 274 00:16:32,120 --> 00:16:36,360 batwork in Borneo and that was pretty cool. We were 275 00:16:36,480 --> 00:16:39,639 doing batwork in the one of the national parks there, 276 00:16:40,559 --> 00:16:44,519 looking at like species occurrence in abundance, just trying to 277 00:16:44,559 --> 00:16:47,759 document some of the species that was in that area. 278 00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:52,240 Speaker 3: It was rough, hard work at first, it was a lot, 279 00:16:52,759 --> 00:16:53,720 but it was it was good. 280 00:16:54,240 --> 00:16:56,720 Speaker 1: From what I know of Borneo, never been but I've 281 00:16:56,759 --> 00:16:58,440 heard that it's pretty hot and humid, so I can 282 00:16:58,519 --> 00:16:59,440 imagine it was tough. 283 00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:04,319 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, it's definitely very humid and hot. But 284 00:17:04,799 --> 00:17:08,160 thankfully there are rain showers there because it's a rainforest. 285 00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:11,319 But yeah, it's it's definitely like being in like the 286 00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:13,119 swamps of Louisiana. 287 00:17:13,640 --> 00:17:14,359 Speaker 3: I'm from Georgia. 288 00:17:14,359 --> 00:17:18,920 Speaker 2: It's very human here, but bornio humidity, it's different. They 289 00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:23,039 also have a lot of different interesting creatures. They have 290 00:17:23,319 --> 00:17:26,200 land leeches that you have to work where you out from. 291 00:17:26,279 --> 00:17:29,000 They look like inchworms and calibers where they're actually leaches 292 00:17:29,079 --> 00:17:32,720 and they like fight through your socks and stuff. They're 293 00:17:32,759 --> 00:17:37,000 pretty cool. And then oh my god, yeah it's intense. 294 00:17:38,079 --> 00:17:40,279 But did that for two months and then literally like 295 00:17:40,759 --> 00:17:43,880 landed and I spent like three days at home and 296 00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:47,000 went hopped on the boat that's in dangerous wee s 297 00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:50,279 observer off the coast so max Hatta, North Carolina, and 298 00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:55,240 lived there for about two weeks. Then went home and 299 00:17:55,720 --> 00:17:57,440 stayed there for a day and drove all the way 300 00:17:57,640 --> 00:18:01,480 to Galveston, Texas and helped on different boat and stay 301 00:18:01,519 --> 00:18:05,680 there for about four months on getting off to drive 302 00:18:05,759 --> 00:18:08,400 to a newport and getting back home back. During that time, 303 00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:11,920 I was doing an endangered species observer work, so looking 304 00:18:12,160 --> 00:18:16,119 for marine mammals and watching out for you as the 305 00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:21,720 boat is completing the dredging activity for beach new renewishment 306 00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:24,119 or widening and shipting channels. 307 00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:26,039 Speaker 3: So we making sure the both wasn't running into. 308 00:18:25,960 --> 00:18:29,319 Speaker 2: Any marine mammals that were in danger, like the right 309 00:18:29,359 --> 00:18:32,839 well start digging up any marine mammal or other danger. 310 00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:37,039 Speaker 3: Species like sea turtles on selfish. So that was a 311 00:18:37,119 --> 00:18:38,680 lot of fun. Got to see a lot of cool 312 00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:43,119 on sea creatures that I haven't seen before. And then 313 00:18:43,279 --> 00:18:46,240 I did that for roughly I. 314 00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:50,400 Speaker 2: Don't know, like three, three or four months, and then 315 00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:55,160 I got into grad school, which is a huge like 316 00:18:55,680 --> 00:19:00,119 story in itself. So anyways, I did that when to 317 00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:04,880 grad school and worked with the NPS for two months. 318 00:19:05,039 --> 00:19:09,680 I'm doing grad school doing biological science work in Manasas, Virginia, 319 00:19:10,279 --> 00:19:15,000 doing a lot of deer. Were all study building gear 320 00:19:15,039 --> 00:19:20,640 exclusion defenses for sensitive plants, habits, had measurement plans for 321 00:19:20,839 --> 00:19:24,000 Hensol sparrow and Bob whitequill as well as I'm doing 322 00:19:24,039 --> 00:19:27,759 surveys for both of them, and did that for two months, 323 00:19:28,119 --> 00:19:31,839 and then went back to grad school did my master's 324 00:19:31,960 --> 00:19:34,680 project with the count Kents. 325 00:19:34,759 --> 00:19:39,160 Speaker 3: Really with the Seaside sparrow, seaqure. 326 00:19:39,119 --> 00:19:42,880 Speaker 2: The turtles are stuck in my head, but did work 327 00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:47,480 with the seaside sparrow looking at their nestlinge diets and 328 00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:52,079 was available to them on the Tittle Marshes in South Georgia. 329 00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:56,359 So I did that for two summers and then I 330 00:19:56,440 --> 00:20:00,119 got a job with the Fish wild Life Service as 331 00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:06,480 a biological science technician working and Ulula River in Louisiana, 332 00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:09,519 back on Tensaw River National Waldlarfe Refuge. 333 00:20:10,319 --> 00:20:13,160 Speaker 3: It was just like an eighty eight thousand and acre refuge. 334 00:20:14,119 --> 00:20:17,319 Speaker 2: So I did that from July or twenty twenty one 335 00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:20,960 to January twenty two, and then took a break while 336 00:20:20,960 --> 00:20:24,039 I was waiting to get convered over into a permanent 337 00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:27,440 position with the Fish and wild Life Service, and I 338 00:20:27,519 --> 00:20:30,440 got converted over in April and did that for a 339 00:20:30,559 --> 00:20:34,559 year as a part lands biologist in South Georgia. So 340 00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:39,039 I did that for roughly almost a year nine months, 341 00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:43,119 and then I got awarded the Kenos Marine Policy Fellowship 342 00:20:43,799 --> 00:20:47,119 and left and did that fellowship for a year, and 343 00:20:47,519 --> 00:20:51,599 I was placed in a Fishing Wildlife division, so obviously 344 00:20:52,839 --> 00:20:57,680 executive assistant to the division. It was great experience and 345 00:20:57,839 --> 00:21:00,920 just need a lot of different fish biology as some 346 00:21:01,079 --> 00:21:03,960 of the fish bologists were also people of color and 347 00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:06,720 they were just kid of great examples as well, and 348 00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:09,599 someone like they've been in the service for so long 349 00:21:09,759 --> 00:21:12,920 but haven't yet had a chance to work with another 350 00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:16,400 like black biologists as well. So it was a little 351 00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:20,839 good experience. And then that brings us back to twenty 352 00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:26,039 twenty four when I left the position as on the 353 00:21:26,319 --> 00:21:30,000 EXECU assistant. Once I finished my Canoe schellowship, I applied 354 00:21:30,759 --> 00:21:33,319 for the position back at home as an environmental protection 355 00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:37,279 specialist with the National Park Service, and I was really 356 00:21:37,319 --> 00:21:39,480 looking forward to it because it was bringing me back home. 357 00:21:39,559 --> 00:21:43,039 The Georgia National Park unit was right up the street 358 00:21:43,119 --> 00:21:46,519 from my house, within like twenty miles. I was okay 359 00:21:46,720 --> 00:21:51,240 like his homes in Atlanta, and a supervisor seemed pretty 360 00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:54,079 good on meta biologists and like I was doing that work. 361 00:21:54,759 --> 00:21:58,279 I was the environment protect specialist for the park, but 362 00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:03,519 also the Georgia Department their transportation and liaison. So with 363 00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:08,000 that I not only did the newook compliance for the part, 364 00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:13,400 but also helped with a nebook compliance and acted as 365 00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:18,160 an animediary between the National Park Service units that were 366 00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:20,759 in Georgia and the Georgia Department of Transportation. 367 00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:23,079 Speaker 3: So that's how I got there a lot. 368 00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:28,559 Speaker 1: Well, but like you have had the career that's so 369 00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:31,640 many widelife biologists dream of, where like I get to 370 00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:33,680 travel all over the country in the world, just like 371 00:22:33,799 --> 00:22:36,559 studying different things. Like you have a great resume to 372 00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:39,319 do literally whatever you want. That's amazing. 373 00:22:39,720 --> 00:22:44,200 Speaker 3: Well thank you, yeah, yeah, hopefully all listen out there. Wow. 374 00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:48,519 Speaker 1: Well yeah, So speaking of the whole reason that we're 375 00:22:48,559 --> 00:22:53,799 talking about this, So what happened, Like you were terminated 376 00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:56,640 from your position that you had just received last year 377 00:22:56,680 --> 00:22:59,359 with the National Park Service. How did that go down? 378 00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:05,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, it was very like unfortunate and like blindsiding because 379 00:23:05,799 --> 00:23:08,960 one like I mentioned that my job was working as 380 00:23:09,039 --> 00:23:13,440 the Georgia Department of Transportation liaison, so they actually funded 381 00:23:13,519 --> 00:23:19,799 my position, Like all my money is already allocated not 382 00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:21,960 just for this year, but for at least the next 383 00:23:22,079 --> 00:23:25,920 four years, and it's already had been sent to the 384 00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:29,640 park and was in a bank. So by getting rid 385 00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:32,920 of me, the government is not getting any more money, 386 00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:36,240 they're not spending any more money, like they're not saving anything. 387 00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:39,680 Speaker 3: The money had already been allocated for my position. 388 00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:44,079 Speaker 2: And with that, man said, like for the longest time 389 00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:47,039 going back and forth, like after the first execon order 390 00:23:47,119 --> 00:23:49,359 came out, I was like, I asked my super. 391 00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:51,279 Speaker 3: I was like, am I safe? 392 00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:54,559 Speaker 2: And she's like, yeah, Like, your money isn't funded by 393 00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:57,119 the government government, it's already in the bank, so you 394 00:23:57,160 --> 00:24:01,440 should be good. So I would I said question every 395 00:24:01,519 --> 00:24:04,440 couple every couple of days because the new things were 396 00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:06,480 coming out, and I was like, all right, am I 397 00:24:06,599 --> 00:24:10,319 really good? Like you masked the g DOT coordinator, It's like, yes, 398 00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:14,079 your money is provided by states already been there, so 399 00:24:14,279 --> 00:24:15,440 you should be fine. 400 00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:18,480 Speaker 3: At least some are in with g DOT. I said okay. 401 00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:23,400 And then around on the thirteenth, like I went on 402 00:24:23,559 --> 00:24:25,240 vacation and I. 403 00:24:26,279 --> 00:24:29,039 Speaker 2: Just asked again to be sure. I was like like, 404 00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:33,680 is everything okay. It's like, yes, you're fine. You shouldn't 405 00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:34,720 have to worry. 406 00:24:35,039 --> 00:24:37,160 Speaker 3: And then on the fourteenth, while I was on vacation, 407 00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:40,599 I heard like a lot of people got terminated. So 408 00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:42,920 I reached out to my super. I was like, hey, 409 00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:47,599 what is this, Like, Am I on the list? Am 410 00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:49,720 I on the list? And she's like, oh, I haven't 411 00:24:49,759 --> 00:24:54,039 heard anything as of yet, so that could be a 412 00:24:54,079 --> 00:24:56,920 good sign. Since I haven't heard anything, so I was like, okay, 413 00:24:57,720 --> 00:24:58,440 it sounds good. 414 00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:02,559 Speaker 2: And then like that she followed with like I heard 415 00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:05,519 through the grape vine that there's a chance that there 416 00:25:05,519 --> 00:25:11,440 will be another like cut on Tuesday. So like hearing 417 00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:14,319 that on Monday, I made a decision to like just 418 00:25:14,519 --> 00:25:17,720 drive back up our drive back from Florida and in 419 00:25:17,839 --> 00:25:21,079 my vacation early because I'd rather like get it in 420 00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:25,440 person instead of like having to worry about it for 421 00:25:25,559 --> 00:25:29,319 the next couple of days. I drove back up Monday 422 00:25:30,039 --> 00:25:33,759 forgot something and had to go back to Florida that 423 00:25:34,039 --> 00:25:34,839 night and. 424 00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:38,079 Speaker 3: Turn back around and drive up. So I ended up. 425 00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:42,079 Speaker 2: Technically left around two thirty pm. That we didn't get 426 00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:45,000 back home until five o'clock in the morning on Tuesday, 427 00:25:46,039 --> 00:25:47,920 so I had been up for a full twenty four 428 00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:52,000 hours and open up my computer just to like answer 429 00:25:52,119 --> 00:25:54,200 some emails and think, like if I'm going to get 430 00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:57,279 an email, i'll probably be later today that I open 431 00:25:57,359 --> 00:25:59,759 it up, and it was answering emails and it was 432 00:25:59,799 --> 00:26:03,319 like seventh one down on Friday the fourteenth, and it 433 00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:06,960 was like basically like, oh, you've been terminated, And I 434 00:26:07,079 --> 00:26:10,000 was like what, So I like sent to my supervisor like, oh, 435 00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:12,279 like I got Nicks, and like that's all I can say, 436 00:26:12,359 --> 00:26:15,359 Like I got nig It was like so like find 437 00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:19,119 sighting like what they didn't even like send like any 438 00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:24,519 information or they didn't include my supervisor park superintendent. 439 00:26:24,279 --> 00:26:27,440 Speaker 3: On the letter. It was just sent to me. So 440 00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:30,279 it was just like frustrate. So she didn't know anything 441 00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:30,799 about it. 442 00:26:31,759 --> 00:26:34,759 Speaker 1: That's crazy. So who did you get the email from? 443 00:26:34,839 --> 00:26:36,359 Like did you even recognize the sunder? 444 00:26:37,279 --> 00:26:38,039 Speaker 3: I did not know. 445 00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:43,200 Speaker 2: This person came from the definitely director of the well 446 00:26:43,519 --> 00:26:47,920 the acting deputy director of the National Parks Service. And 447 00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:52,359 I never had any contact with this individual at all, 448 00:26:52,799 --> 00:26:57,079 never heard their name. They sent their email and it 449 00:26:57,240 --> 00:26:59,960 was because I was approachenationary employee. 450 00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:05,119 Speaker 3: And they also say that before I failed to approve 451 00:27:05,319 --> 00:27:12,480 my performances adequate in my progretionary phase, which again I 452 00:27:12,599 --> 00:27:16,079 never heard this person. They never did any type of 453 00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:19,920 evaluation on me, like they don't even know my name. 454 00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:22,799 And the fact that like the email they sent was 455 00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:27,799 clearly a cookie killer email that was mass produced and 456 00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:32,359 they just changed your name, your park and then the dates. 457 00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:34,720 But yeah, it was crazy. 458 00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:38,960 Speaker 1: So the letter did it say, like you know, I 459 00:27:39,279 --> 00:27:41,160 saw the letter that you post on Instagram. It does 460 00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:44,759 seem like the letter everyone else that got terminated got 461 00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:48,480 so like what So if you started last year, when 462 00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:50,279 was your probation up? 463 00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:54,000 Speaker 3: My probation would be up on in June. 464 00:27:55,559 --> 00:27:59,119 Speaker 2: So the thing is like I switched from the official 465 00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:02,440 wild Life Service and only had like two months of 466 00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:06,480 probationary pier left, and then why left from the fishing 467 00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:10,200 will less areas to take the fellowship that like councilors 468 00:28:10,559 --> 00:28:14,079 everything out. But even if I would have stayed and 469 00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:18,039 did that, like complete that probationary period with the ficial 470 00:28:18,039 --> 00:28:20,960 wal Life Service, since I left to a new agency, 471 00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:22,480 I still would have to restart it. 472 00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:26,359 Speaker 3: You know, I have worked with the Department Interior several 473 00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:27,160 other times. 474 00:28:28,039 --> 00:28:30,960 Speaker 2: So but anyways, I would have been up June sixteenth 475 00:28:31,519 --> 00:28:35,680 would have been my probationary period, so a little over 476 00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:37,240 four months. 477 00:28:37,839 --> 00:28:40,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, And I guess for people who might not be familiar, 478 00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:43,400 could you explain what that probation period is and like 479 00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:43,880 what it's. 480 00:28:43,839 --> 00:28:48,039 Speaker 2: For depending on your position, it's either a year long 481 00:28:48,519 --> 00:28:53,559 or two years alone period or basically there make sure 482 00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:56,240 you have you're good enough to work there, you have 483 00:28:56,480 --> 00:29:00,440 good conduct on your performances, it's up to par and 484 00:29:00,559 --> 00:29:04,519 you don't have any disciplinary actions. And if you complete 485 00:29:04,599 --> 00:29:08,079 that full year or two years without any actions, I'm 486 00:29:08,119 --> 00:29:10,920 guarantee your status and I have to like go through 487 00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:15,559 another coperate orationary phase. And since you're a stable employee, 488 00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:20,400 whenever you leave an agency or sometimes depending on the position, 489 00:29:21,039 --> 00:29:23,920 it's switched to a different position, you have to go 490 00:29:24,039 --> 00:29:26,880 through like a trial period. So like for other jobs 491 00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:31,119 it's ninety days or so, but with the government, it's 492 00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:34,359 a year or two years, And it doesn't really take 493 00:29:34,359 --> 00:29:37,440 an account like how long you have worked for the government, 494 00:29:38,319 --> 00:29:41,599 even though the Department of Interior like over house several 495 00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:42,559 different agencies. 496 00:29:43,359 --> 00:29:45,440 Speaker 1: So a position that you're talking about with the Park Service, 497 00:29:45,519 --> 00:29:46,799 this was a permanent position. 498 00:29:47,519 --> 00:29:51,920 Speaker 2: This one was a turn position for four years, but 499 00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:56,119 it was hoped to be permanent eventually. The work that 500 00:29:56,160 --> 00:29:59,599 I was doing is pretty much a central to the park. 501 00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:02,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, And I mean so I was a former term 502 00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:05,359 employee too at the federal government with the USDA, And 503 00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:07,720 it can be confusing because so I was like term 504 00:30:07,799 --> 00:30:10,440 on four years, and similar to your job, it's like, yeah, 505 00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:12,200 if we still have funding after the four years, then 506 00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:14,799 we like renew you. So it's kind of like your 507 00:30:14,839 --> 00:30:17,640 permanent employee, like as long as the funding is there. 508 00:30:17,759 --> 00:30:20,759 But like you were saying if it's a necessary position, 509 00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:23,359 very likely you're going to have the funding to keep going. 510 00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:25,880 So it's not like this was even just some like 511 00:30:26,119 --> 00:30:29,400 seasonal job, like this could have been your career. 512 00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:33,599 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I definitely cared our career. And like I 513 00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:37,240 mentioned before, like the funding was already there for at 514 00:30:37,319 --> 00:30:42,160 least four years. So like now that money is just 515 00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:45,599 Center Bank being wasted since yeah, like I'm not working 516 00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:47,440 only there and not going to hire. 517 00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:52,279 Speaker 3: Anybody else to do it. Talk about wasting money there 518 00:30:52,319 --> 00:30:52,480 you go. 519 00:30:52,799 --> 00:30:54,920 Speaker 1: Literally that's the definition of wasting the money it was 520 00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:57,000 allocated for this thing, and they're like, never mind where 521 00:30:57,000 --> 00:30:58,599 it's just gonna let it sit there and not have 522 00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:01,079 the work done. Like that doesn't make any fucking sense. 523 00:31:01,759 --> 00:31:02,799 Speaker 3: Yes, not at all. 524 00:31:04,079 --> 00:31:07,599 Speaker 1: God, So, like we were talking about before we started 525 00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:11,200 recording last night, so today we're recording this on March fourteenth. 526 00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:14,279 Last night, judges I believe in California and some other 527 00:31:14,319 --> 00:31:16,599 state that I can't think of right now, ruled that 528 00:31:17,079 --> 00:31:20,559 this type of termination that the Department of Government Efficiency 529 00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:24,200 whatever determined like this was not legal the way that 530 00:31:24,599 --> 00:31:27,160 you and many other people like you were fired. So 531 00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:32,279 what is do you have an update what's going on? 532 00:31:32,559 --> 00:31:34,920 Are you going to be reinstated? Do you have any idea? 533 00:31:36,039 --> 00:31:39,480 Speaker 2: I mean right now, I don't really have like an update. 534 00:31:40,519 --> 00:31:43,680 I reached out on to my park, as other people 535 00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:46,640 have reached out as well, like we're not really sure 536 00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:51,440 what it means. Because while that judge did rule like 537 00:31:51,759 --> 00:31:54,880 technically in our favor, the question is like if it 538 00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:59,599 was uphill and we were reinstated, we were not really 539 00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:03,720 sure like how long we would be reinstated because the 540 00:32:03,839 --> 00:32:07,240 goal is to get rid of at least thirty percent 541 00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:12,279 or more of the federal workforce. And now this sess 542 00:32:12,279 --> 00:32:14,960 to me like it says that we were fired illegally. 543 00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:19,400 Now just it just like they can reinstate US and 544 00:32:19,519 --> 00:32:23,160 then now actually go through a proper reducing for us 545 00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:27,039 on RIF and you actually say, okay, you have thirty 546 00:32:27,119 --> 00:32:30,640 and sixty days notice that you're going to lose your job, 547 00:32:30,759 --> 00:32:33,640 which is on what they're supposed to do if they're 548 00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:37,680 gonna perform on Ril. So now that that's where we are, 549 00:32:37,839 --> 00:32:42,599 we're it's still like we're not sure what's happening, looking 550 00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:46,079 for jobs, trying to figure out what's that. And then 551 00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:49,880 someone us like are following like trying to get unemployment 552 00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:53,799 that we can because we are waiting for our documents 553 00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:56,160 and a lot of people have been let go, so 554 00:32:56,440 --> 00:33:01,079 there's nobody to provide those documents are back their back hill. 555 00:33:01,279 --> 00:33:05,599 And then unfortunately the MELI system is going through a 556 00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:07,240 crisis as well, thank god. 557 00:33:07,799 --> 00:33:09,400 Speaker 3: So yeah, we're not sure. 558 00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:13,079 Speaker 2: And then like are not able to get unemployment because 559 00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:16,000 for some stakes you can't have like it be your 560 00:33:16,119 --> 00:33:20,400 follow or performance issue and unfortunate that's what the letter 561 00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:21,440 says for some people. 562 00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:25,359 Speaker 3: So that's issue too. And you got to like appeal. 563 00:33:25,839 --> 00:33:27,079 It's a lie. 564 00:33:27,799 --> 00:33:31,359 Speaker 1: Wow, I didn't even think of that. That's evil. 565 00:33:32,079 --> 00:33:33,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a lot. 566 00:33:34,039 --> 00:33:37,960 Speaker 1: Wow. So you said that you're, you know, applying for jobs. 567 00:33:38,279 --> 00:33:42,079 What can other people do to like advocate for people 568 00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:44,000 like you who have been wrongfully terminated. 569 00:33:45,079 --> 00:33:51,559 Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely calling your representative senators and fighting for them. 570 00:33:51,599 --> 00:33:54,359 And then there's a couple of different acts that are 571 00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:57,359 going through. One of them is the merit At that 572 00:33:57,599 --> 00:34:02,400 is encouraging like Congress and to get involved in get 573 00:34:02,519 --> 00:34:06,599 us reinstated. And I believe that's why represent the modl 574 00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:11,320 Milk or Lawer Milk. That's the Merry Act that you 575 00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:15,079 can call your congress people about and try to help 576 00:34:15,079 --> 00:34:19,119 them support it also like standing up telling them to 577 00:34:19,679 --> 00:34:25,079 actually have a backbone would be more like Al Green 578 00:34:25,199 --> 00:34:30,599 of Texas and stand up to the administration and us 579 00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:35,079 even if you at one time support this administration that 580 00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:39,639 you realize now that you don't anymore. Like make sure 581 00:34:39,679 --> 00:34:44,360 you voice that concern and tell your congress people and 582 00:34:44,639 --> 00:34:47,480 even your films like this, this is not okay. On 583 00:34:47,639 --> 00:34:53,119 what's happening, and participate in the economic boycott. So right 584 00:34:53,199 --> 00:34:57,920 now there's one on Amazon today. Pretty much every Friday 585 00:34:58,079 --> 00:35:02,760 throughout the year, there's a boycott owned many large businesses 586 00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:04,440 and utilizing their credit cards. 587 00:35:05,079 --> 00:35:09,079 Speaker 3: That just basically hitting them where it hurts and donald 588 00:35:09,119 --> 00:35:10,159 that's their pockets. 589 00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:16,920 Speaker 2: Also one more thing, it's a pretty conceived notion by 590 00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:20,679 some people that government employees are. 591 00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:25,760 Speaker 3: Lazy and do not deserve their checks. 592 00:35:26,159 --> 00:35:30,119 Speaker 2: One of them is a congress person from Georgia, but 593 00:35:30,639 --> 00:35:34,519 not realizing that she also is a governmental in federal worker. 594 00:35:36,079 --> 00:35:40,960 But yeah, but anyways, speaking from the National Park Service 595 00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:45,880 and Fish Wial Life Service aspect of it, like there 596 00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:50,239 are people who are who were terminated wrongfully by this 597 00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:54,320 administration who are literally volunteering their time helping to continue 598 00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:58,000 the work that they were doing with dangerous cycs because 599 00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:02,599 they know that without them there, it's detrimental to those species. 600 00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:08,480 But even before like all this, the National Park Service, 601 00:36:08,599 --> 00:36:13,159 US Sociality Service has been heavily underfunded, and we were 602 00:36:13,639 --> 00:36:17,960 doing double duty in many different places like the refuge 603 00:36:18,559 --> 00:36:21,239 on that work that that was eighty eight thousand acres, 604 00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:27,199 there were roughly six employees that was managing that refuge, and. 605 00:36:27,559 --> 00:36:33,280 Speaker 3: Of those six, only three of them were like full 606 00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:39,039 time employees. So hold your tongue if you're going to 607 00:36:39,079 --> 00:36:43,920 say for the employees excusually are are lazy and we 608 00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:46,199 don't deserve our tech like we're doing so much work. 609 00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:48,920 We're even doing more work. 610 00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:53,920 Speaker 2: Them we possibly could for not even an equal amount 611 00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:58,039 of pay that other people would be getting as well. 612 00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:01,679 So it's it's ridiculous. So jail, don't don't say for 613 00:37:02,079 --> 00:37:04,760 employees are lazy. If you're some want to say that, 614 00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:09,559 actually correct feel and tell like all we're doing and 615 00:37:09,679 --> 00:37:12,840 what we take care of and just for instance, National 616 00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:18,119 Park Service we bring in roughly like around like fifty 617 00:37:18,199 --> 00:37:23,000 five billion dollars of money for the US and that's 618 00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:29,800 through fees from visitors, but also local economies like gateway 619 00:37:30,119 --> 00:37:34,239 towns or towns that are alone or just right outside 620 00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:39,719 of national parks. And yet we spend less money that 621 00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:43,639 we bring in that much revenue, So it would be 622 00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:47,599 wise to actually fund us and keep us there. And 623 00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:52,039 I don't even know where this is gonna go as 624 00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:56,800 we continue to lose for employees, Like there's National park 625 00:37:56,880 --> 00:38:01,400 services that are already counseling, like tour there's some they're 626 00:38:01,519 --> 00:38:04,880 closing on Mondays for the rest of the year because 627 00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:07,599 they don't have the staff. And then like some of 628 00:38:07,639 --> 00:38:12,280 the bigger ones like Yeostone and Yosemite, which see like, 629 00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:16,199 uh increble amount of people over the summertime, and their 630 00:38:16,320 --> 00:38:19,360 lines are are ray long with the stuff that they 631 00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:22,960 did have that now meachine those selfs have been cut. 632 00:38:23,639 --> 00:38:26,239 On top of that, when a lot of people come, 633 00:38:26,360 --> 00:38:29,119 you're gonna have a lot of waste. You're gonna have 634 00:38:29,159 --> 00:38:32,519 a lot of also, people not following rules, interacting with 635 00:38:33,239 --> 00:38:36,679 wildlife or going out to beating the path. You're gonna 636 00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:40,199 need staff and people to help them out, and they're 637 00:38:40,239 --> 00:38:43,159 not gonna be able to assist them because they have 638 00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:43,679 been cut. 639 00:38:44,679 --> 00:38:46,599 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, when this started happening, I was like 640 00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:50,000 let me tell you, wildlife is not the place where 641 00:38:50,039 --> 00:38:56,079 we have excess money. We are chronically everywhere understaffed, underpaid, overworked. 642 00:38:56,960 --> 00:39:00,000 I don't understand why we wouldn't be investing in our life, 643 00:39:00,159 --> 00:39:03,920 wild places, our wildlife, especially because wildlife is held in 644 00:39:03,920 --> 00:39:06,559 the public trust, so it belongs to all of us. 645 00:39:06,679 --> 00:39:09,000 We should want that to be funded because it's a 646 00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:12,760 public resource for us. Also, like you were saying, you know, 647 00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:15,840 not having a lot of park service employees, like that 648 00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:19,880 includes rangers who are literally employed to like help save 649 00:39:19,960 --> 00:39:22,679 your life if you are having some sort of issue 650 00:39:22,719 --> 00:39:25,960 in a national park. And I've also heard of wildfire 651 00:39:26,239 --> 00:39:29,000 firefighters being fired, and it's like, is that where we 652 00:39:29,039 --> 00:39:31,599 should be cutting the money? That seems pretty important to me. 653 00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:33,920 Speaker 3: Right, yeah, crazy? 654 00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:37,960 Speaker 2: I look, wild fire are wearing cut and I mean 655 00:39:38,559 --> 00:39:42,320 there's fires going on in most a lot of the 656 00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:44,440 kind I say most of the country, but at least. 657 00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:46,280 Speaker 3: Three other the codes. 658 00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:46,639 Speaker 1: I know. 659 00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:50,400 Speaker 2: There's a couple that happened in South Carolina recently, there's 660 00:39:50,559 --> 00:39:54,960 one in Texas and some in California, and those are 661 00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:56,880 the ones that just the news talk about. 662 00:39:57,960 --> 00:40:01,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, well, well, as we wrap up, where 663 00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:04,840 can people find you online? And support your work and 664 00:40:05,119 --> 00:40:06,239 also tell us about your book. 665 00:40:07,199 --> 00:40:07,400 Speaker 3: Yeah. 666 00:40:07,679 --> 00:40:13,480 Speaker 2: So people can find me online at Nature underscore al. 667 00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:17,239 So that's Nature with an A N the letter for 668 00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:21,280 the number eight t R E underscore AL. And I'm 669 00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:27,639 on Instagram blue sky x that apartment, vacating that place soon. 670 00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:31,679 You also can email me at Alex K. Dot Trautman 671 00:40:32,440 --> 00:40:37,519 at gmail dot com. And my books their pocket Guides 672 00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:40,599 to Animals to in your state. So I have around 673 00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:46,679 pro different states south right now, I have at Georgia, Florida, 674 00:40:47,519 --> 00:40:56,559 South Carolina. We'll be coming out soon. I have Michigan, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Arizona, Colorado, Texas, 675 00:40:57,360 --> 00:41:01,880 and California and Washington are coming out this year. Easy 676 00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:06,519 book to read and introduce to kids and people new nature. 677 00:41:07,800 --> 00:41:11,880 I make sure that they're accessible. It's meaning that people 678 00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:15,360 can't understand them and easily use them with that even 679 00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:17,400 being the first time that they ever picked up a 680 00:41:17,559 --> 00:41:21,320 field guide. But yeah, you can get those at some 681 00:41:21,559 --> 00:41:26,440 local bookstores. Barnes and Noble has it, Target has it 682 00:41:26,559 --> 00:41:30,800 online and some targets as well. And then you also 683 00:41:31,199 --> 00:41:36,519 get it from the Adventure King on website and the 684 00:41:37,039 --> 00:41:39,639 link is in my bio on the Instagram as well, 685 00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:43,599 and if you need like a large set or teacher 686 00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:48,960 classroom set, just emailed me and we can figure something out. 687 00:41:49,559 --> 00:41:51,400 Speaker 1: Hell yeah, when are you going to work on some 688 00:41:51,559 --> 00:41:54,440 New England states? I'm biased because I'm here in New England. 689 00:41:54,199 --> 00:42:00,840 Speaker 2: But oh so I do he Massachusetts is already out. Yeah, 690 00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:04,480 so mass is out, and then we have New York 691 00:42:04,639 --> 00:42:08,440 is out, and then the other ones will be coming out, Charlie. 692 00:42:08,519 --> 00:42:11,599 So I'm trying to do like a couple in the east, 693 00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:17,320 then west in central so everyone gets it. I mean 694 00:42:17,639 --> 00:42:20,599 I could be biased and go all of the East 695 00:42:20,719 --> 00:42:21,760 coast first. 696 00:42:23,719 --> 00:42:24,400 Speaker 3: Spreads out. 697 00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:26,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean also to be fair, so like I'm 698 00:42:26,920 --> 00:42:29,599 in New Hampshire, Vermont, New Hampshire and Maine. We have 699 00:42:29,679 --> 00:42:31,639 a lot of the same stuff, so it'd be like 700 00:42:31,800 --> 00:42:35,440 pretty repetitive, but I would love I will definitely get 701 00:42:35,480 --> 00:42:39,039 the Massachusetts either way. But that is so fucking cool 702 00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:40,039 that you have that. 703 00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:44,000 Speaker 3: Oh thank you. Yeah, I'm very happy I do. 704 00:42:44,159 --> 00:42:47,639 Speaker 2: And like I said, like I used to like try 705 00:42:47,679 --> 00:42:50,679 to read field guys when I was younger, and I 706 00:42:50,760 --> 00:42:53,199 can read some of the words, and I love the 707 00:42:53,280 --> 00:42:56,039 pictures that I want to make sure that this is 708 00:42:56,239 --> 00:43:00,119 this has been accessible for people so they can not 709 00:43:00,199 --> 00:43:01,159 only look at a. 710 00:43:01,159 --> 00:43:04,199 Speaker 3: Picture, but also I actually understand what they're reading. 711 00:43:05,400 --> 00:43:08,239 Speaker 1: Yeah, oh that is so cool. Thank you so much 712 00:43:08,320 --> 00:43:10,119 for coming on and chatting with me about your story. 713 00:43:10,199 --> 00:43:13,880 Alex and I will keep re sharing your stories and 714 00:43:13,920 --> 00:43:16,679 stuff on Instagram and we'll stay updated and see what 715 00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:20,159 happens next. Hopefully something good, yes. 716 00:43:20,119 --> 00:43:21,000 Speaker 3: Yes, thank you. 717 00:43:21,639 --> 00:43:26,039 Speaker 2: We often cross that something good does happen. And hopefully 718 00:43:26,280 --> 00:43:31,800 I'm reinstated or for good, yes, for good, or this 719 00:43:31,960 --> 00:43:34,880 administration is allst it somehow. 720 00:43:34,880 --> 00:43:37,639 Speaker 1: That would be even better. Both would be really cool. 721 00:43:48,280 --> 00:43:51,119 Thank you again to Alex for sharing your story in 722 00:43:51,239 --> 00:43:53,360 this episode and the next. I'm also going to be 723 00:43:53,440 --> 00:43:55,760 sharing some write in stories I got from people who 724 00:43:55,840 --> 00:43:59,400 were terminated. This next story is from Chyenne Beach in 725 00:43:59,519 --> 00:44:04,000 her words quote, I started working for the Natural Resources 726 00:44:04,079 --> 00:44:07,679 Conservation Service under the USDA as a soil conservationist in 727 00:44:07,719 --> 00:44:11,320 September twenty twenty four in Illinois. I worked with private 728 00:44:11,400 --> 00:44:15,239 landowners and farm producers to implement federally funded conservation practices 729 00:44:15,280 --> 00:44:18,280 on their land. I helped make their farming practice more 730 00:44:18,280 --> 00:44:22,480 sustainable and restore native prairie, grassland, forest, or wetland ecosystems. 731 00:44:22,559 --> 00:44:24,599 On their land if the landowner chose to do so. 732 00:44:25,519 --> 00:44:27,039 As for my story of when I felt like my 733 00:44:27,159 --> 00:44:29,800 work was most important, A few months ago I conducted 734 00:44:29,840 --> 00:44:32,000 a site visit for a landowner that has been actively 735 00:44:32,079 --> 00:44:34,519 managing the forest on his property with funding through the 736 00:44:34,920 --> 00:44:39,760 Environmental Quality Incentives Program or called EQUIP. His forest was 737 00:44:39,840 --> 00:44:43,599 overgrown with bush, honeysuckle and other invasive plant species. He 738 00:44:43,679 --> 00:44:45,760 had cleared a large portion of the honeysuckle and had 739 00:44:45,840 --> 00:44:48,119 new oak and hickory saplings sprouting in the areas that 740 00:44:48,199 --> 00:44:51,239 he had cleared. We talked about how beautiful his forest 741 00:44:51,400 --> 00:44:53,079 was and how amazing it was to see such old 742 00:44:53,159 --> 00:44:56,360 oak trees on his property. We talked for a while 743 00:44:56,400 --> 00:44:58,920 about the native plants and his property, the wildlife movement 744 00:44:58,960 --> 00:45:01,480 through his property, the the force is being managed, and 745 00:45:01,559 --> 00:45:03,760 we discussed new ways in which he can manage his property, 746 00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:07,039 like prescribed fire. He was so grateful for my time 747 00:45:07,159 --> 00:45:10,199 and information. It felt amazing to be able to connect 748 00:45:10,239 --> 00:45:12,320 with someone that has a passion for conservation and is 749 00:45:12,360 --> 00:45:16,360 implementing conservation practices on their property. Every little bit counts, 750 00:45:16,440 --> 00:45:18,719 and I'm grateful for the opportunity to encourage and support 751 00:45:18,760 --> 00:45:22,360 others and their conservation endeavors. The people I worked with 752 00:45:22,440 --> 00:45:25,280 are motivated and dedicated to conservation and care a lot 753 00:45:25,320 --> 00:45:29,119 about the people we impact. On the morning of February fourteenth, 754 00:45:29,239 --> 00:45:32,079 twenty twenty five, I opened my email and had received 755 00:45:32,119 --> 00:45:36,639 a spammy looking email titled Notification of termination during probationary period. 756 00:45:37,599 --> 00:45:41,199 The email had no body, only an attachment. The email 757 00:45:41,280 --> 00:45:44,119 was sent to me at eight fifteen pm CST on 758 00:45:44,280 --> 00:45:48,320 two thirteen twenty five. The attachment was my termination letter, 759 00:45:48,400 --> 00:45:52,039 and it outlined, quote, the Agency finds, based on your performance, 760 00:45:52,320 --> 00:45:54,639 that you have not demonstrated that your further employment at 761 00:45:54,639 --> 00:45:58,639 the agency would be in public interest. The letter proceeded 762 00:45:58,639 --> 00:46:00,880 to outline that I would be removed from service effective 763 00:46:00,960 --> 00:46:05,039 two thirteen twenty five. I had to relay that termination 764 00:46:05,159 --> 00:46:08,079 letter to my supervisor and their supervisor, as they were 765 00:46:08,199 --> 00:46:11,239 not contacted to discuss my performance or made aware of 766 00:46:11,360 --> 00:46:14,599 my termination. I have not been in service long enough 767 00:46:14,639 --> 00:46:18,000 to receive a formal evaluation, yet my supervisor has given 768 00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:21,880 me an informal valuation stating that I am quote, highly educated, motivated, 769 00:46:22,079 --> 00:46:26,840 and hardworking. We had no guidance on offboarding either. My 770 00:46:26,920 --> 00:46:29,280 states scrambled to figure out off boarding procedures the morning 771 00:46:29,320 --> 00:46:32,840 of two, fourteen, twenty five. Currently, I'm waiting to be 772 00:46:32,920 --> 00:46:36,800 reinstated into my federal position again. Last week, the Federal 773 00:46:36,880 --> 00:46:40,760 Merit Systems Project Board ruled that all USDA terminated probationary 774 00:46:40,800 --> 00:46:44,320 employees must be reinstated into their positions for forty five days. 775 00:46:45,760 --> 00:46:49,159 I haven't received any further information, However, the agency indicates 776 00:46:49,199 --> 00:46:52,599 that they are developing plans to reinstate us Otherwise, I'm 777 00:46:52,639 --> 00:46:54,880 looking for employment outside of the federal system in the 778 00:46:54,920 --> 00:46:57,119 event that I am no longer employed after my forty 779 00:46:57,159 --> 00:47:10,920 five day reinstatement period. That's it for this week's episode. 780 00:47:11,360 --> 00:47:13,039 I know there have been some updates to the situation, 781 00:47:13,360 --> 00:47:16,119 and we'll get into them in the next episode, but 782 00:47:16,320 --> 00:47:18,840 for now, as Alex mentioned, if you want to help, 783 00:47:19,000 --> 00:47:21,760 call your state representatives and remind them that they work 784 00:47:21,880 --> 00:47:25,400 for you and that this is not okay, you can 785 00:47:25,440 --> 00:47:29,039 also share this episode to further share everyone's stories. I 786 00:47:29,159 --> 00:47:31,519 just want to give my deepest condolences and sympathy to 787 00:47:31,679 --> 00:47:34,880 those Central employees who have been terminated, and also to 788 00:47:35,079 --> 00:47:38,360 just anyone being negatively impacted by the current administration's direct 789 00:47:38,400 --> 00:47:42,360 attack on diversity. I hear you I see you, I'm 790 00:47:42,440 --> 00:47:44,960 with you. You are always welcome to hop into my 791 00:47:45,039 --> 00:47:47,320 DMS or email me, even if you just want to 792 00:47:47,320 --> 00:47:49,760 scream to the void. The only way that we'll get 793 00:47:49,760 --> 00:47:51,800 through these next few years is if we do it together. 794 00:47:52,559 --> 00:47:56,360 We are stronger when we work together. If you want 795 00:47:56,400 --> 00:47:58,119 to get in contact with the people I mentioned in 796 00:47:58,199 --> 00:48:00,360 this episode, check out the episode description, where you can 797 00:48:00,400 --> 00:48:02,559 also find us on social media and find an email 798 00:48:02,599 --> 00:48:05,559 if you want to reach out. Thank you to Josh 799 00:48:05,639 --> 00:48:08,239 Walsh for intermusic, and thank you to his brother Jesse 800 00:48:08,360 --> 00:48:11,280 Walsh for editing everything. And next week I will see 801 00:48:11,320 --> 00:48:15,719 you with another interview with another wrongfully terminated federal employee. 802 00:48:16,360 --> 00:48:16,679 Thanks