WEBVTT 1 00:00:23.120 --> 00:00:26.640 We're Tarmin Lorenzo and this is the Pop Style Opinion Fest. 2 00:00:26.679 --> 00:00:28.960 Hello get and welcome back to another edition of the PSO. 3 00:00:29.120 --> 00:00:31.480 I am the teen, you'r Tilo Tom Fitzgerald, and I'm 4 00:00:31.480 --> 00:00:34.560 here with the Low and your til Lorens. My love husband, 5 00:00:34.759 --> 00:00:35.640 are your lovely husband? 6 00:00:35.719 --> 00:00:37.079 Wonderfully fantastic. 7 00:00:37.200 --> 00:00:42.520 We have so much to talk about this topic heavy podcast. 8 00:00:42.600 --> 00:00:45.840 We have matters of style to discuss, matters of celebrity 9 00:00:45.880 --> 00:00:47.679 to discuss, and then we're going to talk about two 10 00:00:47.679 --> 00:00:50.880 TV shows. So it is living up to its name, 11 00:00:51.000 --> 00:00:55.079 The Pop Style Opinion Fest. Anything else you want any 12 00:00:55.079 --> 00:00:56.840 happy talking, you want to get out of your system? 13 00:00:57.000 --> 00:00:59.640 Oh no, it's just beautiful out, sunny, beautiful out. 14 00:00:59.679 --> 00:01:02.479 All the tourists are here in Philadelphia, and. 15 00:01:02.399 --> 00:01:04.560 I know you actually took a picture of. 16 00:01:04.319 --> 00:01:07.400 The line for the Liberty Bill this morning was just insane. 17 00:01:07.920 --> 00:01:10.439 So it's that time of year. And also it's the 18 00:01:10.439 --> 00:01:14.519 two hundred and fiftieth anniversary, but we won't be here 19 00:01:14.560 --> 00:01:18.120 for it anyway. Yeah, we're traveling to Europe, so we 20 00:01:18.159 --> 00:01:18.560 want this. 21 00:01:19.120 --> 00:01:21.120 It wasn't planned that way, We just happened to. 22 00:01:21.200 --> 00:01:23.519 It just happened to be. Well, we're going for a wedding. 23 00:01:23.640 --> 00:01:25.840 We're going to Ireland for a wedding and then we're 24 00:01:25.840 --> 00:01:27.680 going to We said we were going to tell people 25 00:01:27.719 --> 00:01:29.760 we're going to Edinburgh. After that we're. 26 00:01:29.560 --> 00:01:34.560 Going to Scotland. Yeah, so that's buh, very very I'm 27 00:01:34.560 --> 00:01:37.200 so excited. Looks like, oh my god, the most beautiful place. 28 00:01:37.200 --> 00:01:39.319 It's gonna be so hot though. Yes, all right, so 29 00:01:39.480 --> 00:01:43.000 that's our little happy talk. The cats are fine. Everything's good. 30 00:01:43.280 --> 00:01:44.439 Yeah, everything's fine. 31 00:01:44.480 --> 00:01:46.239 Everything's fine, everything's everything. 32 00:01:47.719 --> 00:01:48.560 Tab is coming. 33 00:01:48.719 --> 00:01:51.319 Tab is going to jump up on the table any second, 34 00:01:51.359 --> 00:01:54.239 any second, anyway with a big thump. All right, So 35 00:01:55.200 --> 00:01:57.239 right out the gate, let's talk about matters of fashion, 36 00:01:57.359 --> 00:02:02.719 which is Olivia Rodrigo, the pop singer, is embroiled in 37 00:02:02.799 --> 00:02:05.760 a silly little controversy. It's not really a controversy at all, 38 00:02:05.840 --> 00:02:11.439 but she has brought I guess single hand because I 39 00:02:11.439 --> 00:02:13.560 guarantee this is now going to become a fashion item. 40 00:02:13.919 --> 00:02:16.919 So probably single handedly has brought the baby doll dress 41 00:02:17.039 --> 00:02:22.319 back into style. She last month wore one on stage 42 00:02:22.400 --> 00:02:23.360 to perform her late. 43 00:02:23.280 --> 00:02:25.919 Well, it's on the cover of the new album, so 44 00:02:25.960 --> 00:02:28.599 it's all part of her branding of the whole package 45 00:02:28.599 --> 00:02:30.960 for the new album. Called you Look Pretty Sad for 46 00:02:31.000 --> 00:02:31.919 a growing love. 47 00:02:31.919 --> 00:02:34.639 Right, and then the single she wore on stage like 48 00:02:34.680 --> 00:02:36.960 in the video or something drop dead, which. 49 00:02:36.879 --> 00:02:41.360 Is amazing song I love is it okay? 50 00:02:42.120 --> 00:02:42.280 You know? 51 00:02:42.520 --> 00:02:44.639 Make me laugh? Cor Tom said that in terms of 52 00:02:44.680 --> 00:02:46.680 pop music, I have the dates of a sixteen year 53 00:02:46.680 --> 00:02:51.360 old girl, does I do? But that song is amazing. Anyway, 54 00:02:51.439 --> 00:02:52.639 I think she's very talented. 55 00:02:52.840 --> 00:02:55.919 To be honest, I think she's very talented, and I 56 00:02:55.919 --> 00:03:01.879 think she's very naive about baby doll dress. So let's 57 00:03:01.879 --> 00:03:05.159 start off with this. So she wore a baby doll dress, 58 00:03:05.199 --> 00:03:07.599 and let's define this baby doll dresses. It is a 59 00:03:07.639 --> 00:03:13.879 specific style of dress which is meant to mimic juvenile dresses, 60 00:03:13.960 --> 00:03:18.639 dresses for little girls. So it's a very short skirt, 61 00:03:19.439 --> 00:03:22.759 like very micro short skirt, like if she raised her arms, 62 00:03:22.759 --> 00:03:25.319 you would see her pante like you. That's usually she's 63 00:03:25.360 --> 00:03:26.319 built in feature of it. 64 00:03:26.319 --> 00:03:28.560 But she's also wearing bloomers, so it's the whole combo. 65 00:03:28.479 --> 00:03:34.879 Right, Usually puppy sleeves, and it doesn't have a defined waist. 66 00:03:34.960 --> 00:03:38.759 It's usually like triangle shaped. It's very much what little 67 00:03:38.800 --> 00:03:43.199 girls wear. When you put a little girl in a dress, 68 00:03:43.759 --> 00:03:46.439 it has a specific etymology. It has been called the 69 00:03:46.520 --> 00:03:48.879 baby doll dress because of the film Baby Doll in 70 00:03:48.919 --> 00:03:53.439 nineteen fifty six, which the lead character wore played by 71 00:03:53.479 --> 00:03:56.000 Carol Baker, wore a baby doll dress. And you know, 72 00:03:56.080 --> 00:04:01.120 Baby Doll was about a baby doll. Well, I mean, 73 00:04:01.159 --> 00:04:04.000 I don't know if cless why that is pedophilia, because 74 00:04:04.000 --> 00:04:06.400 I think she was playing a teenager, but it was. 75 00:04:07.240 --> 00:04:09.599 It's something it was about underage sex, and it was 76 00:04:09.639 --> 00:04:16.199 about about infantilizing women and as a form of sexualizing it. 77 00:04:16.959 --> 00:04:20.959 So this is not something that just got imposed on 78 00:04:21.000 --> 00:04:24.800 Olivia Rodrigo. This is a seventy year old term referring 79 00:04:24.800 --> 00:04:29.199 to a specific style of dress that was specifically designed 80 00:04:30.040 --> 00:04:36.879 to evoke childhood and sexuality. So that is a very 81 00:04:37.120 --> 00:04:40.560 very volatile combination. And in nineteen fifty six you could 82 00:04:40.560 --> 00:04:43.879 get away with that. But even then it was a 83 00:04:43.920 --> 00:04:47.040 controversial style. And then in the nineteen sixties that style 84 00:04:47.079 --> 00:04:53.680 of dress actually became popular among adult women, and it 85 00:04:53.759 --> 00:04:56.120 was popularized a lot by the sex kittens of the 86 00:04:56.199 --> 00:04:59.920 nineteen sixties, these screensiren's, big hair, winged eyes, you know, 87 00:05:00.920 --> 00:05:06.879 coquettish sexuality. The Bridgie Bardouz of that era and then 88 00:05:06.920 --> 00:05:11.399 in the nineties it was repurposed again by you know, 89 00:05:11.720 --> 00:05:14.160 riot girl singers like Courtney Love. 90 00:05:14.399 --> 00:05:17.199 Yes, uh, And it was part. 91 00:05:17.079 --> 00:05:22.000 Of that whole Kinderhorr movement in the nineties, which in 92 00:05:22.040 --> 00:05:26.319 that instance it was a sort of post feminist punk 93 00:05:26.439 --> 00:05:31.079 take on the baby doll because they weren't sexualizing the dress. 94 00:05:31.120 --> 00:05:34.680 They were removing the sexualization of it, the undertones, and 95 00:05:34.720 --> 00:05:38.160 they were adding all of this sort of violent punk imagery, 96 00:05:38.240 --> 00:05:43.279 messy hair slash, you know, messy makeup, that sort of thing, grungy, 97 00:05:43.480 --> 00:05:46.279 you know, adding grungy items on top of it. In 98 00:05:46.360 --> 00:05:49.199 all in order to take it away from its juvenile 99 00:05:49.920 --> 00:05:54.079 undertones and from its sexual undertones. It was more about 100 00:05:55.959 --> 00:06:01.279 defying those things, defying femininity, defying coquettish, and being more 101 00:06:01.319 --> 00:06:03.920 in your face about it. That is not what Olivia 102 00:06:04.000 --> 00:06:06.759 Rodrigo is doing. She's embracing it completely. 103 00:06:06.839 --> 00:06:09.759 Go all right. She made a statement, and I think 104 00:06:09.800 --> 00:06:12.800 that's what they her team had in mind to go 105 00:06:12.879 --> 00:06:15.839 with the court Love, because she actually mentioned I'm glad 106 00:06:15.839 --> 00:06:18.800 you mentioned Courton Love, because she actually said that I 107 00:06:18.839 --> 00:06:21.319 wanted to go with sort of like a court and 108 00:06:21.360 --> 00:06:24.639 Love kind of Look, if you watch the video, I 109 00:06:24.639 --> 00:06:26.839 don't know about the cover, can't remember, but the video 110 00:06:26.879 --> 00:06:28.279 she's wearing boots, you know. 111 00:06:28.959 --> 00:06:31.800 I know she does wear nihil black leather boots with it, 112 00:06:31.879 --> 00:06:34.360 which does go against the baby dolls. 113 00:06:34.439 --> 00:06:37.000 So it exploded everywhere with all of the social media 114 00:06:37.199 --> 00:06:40.800 TikTok and et cetera. And she she was kind of 115 00:06:40.839 --> 00:06:45.000 shocked that because you know, she's young, she's twenty three three, 116 00:06:45.279 --> 00:06:49.360 she's twenty three. I don't know what the team was thinking. 117 00:06:49.600 --> 00:06:52.279 The thing is that I wish they had an argument 118 00:06:52.360 --> 00:06:55.040 why they chose that dress, you know, because usually like 119 00:06:55.079 --> 00:06:57.399 look look at Taylor Swift for example, when she did 120 00:06:57.399 --> 00:07:00.560 the whole you know Vegas thing, right you show girl, 121 00:07:00.839 --> 00:07:02.680 she went with a showgirl look. So I wish they 122 00:07:02.759 --> 00:07:06.120 had a better explanation why they chose to that look 123 00:07:06.160 --> 00:07:07.399 for this particular album. 124 00:07:07.920 --> 00:07:11.160 Can I yeah, sure, I just want to I want 125 00:07:11.160 --> 00:07:15.120 to say here, there's no there's no real scandal here. 126 00:07:15.480 --> 00:07:17.600 A young woman is allowed to dress however she wants 127 00:07:17.639 --> 00:07:21.519 to dress, and I don't think she should be criticized 128 00:07:21.560 --> 00:07:23.959 for wearing baby doll dresses if that's what she wants 129 00:07:24.000 --> 00:07:30.680 to wear. However, those dresses are not without implications, and 130 00:07:30.920 --> 00:07:35.240 she is she seemed very ignorant of what the implications 131 00:07:35.240 --> 00:07:38.600 of those dresses are. And that's fine, All of it's fine. 132 00:07:38.639 --> 00:07:41.319 This is not a criticism of her, But it's more 133 00:07:41.759 --> 00:07:44.720 we're unpacking the fact that because she did this thing 134 00:07:44.759 --> 00:07:47.360 where she said, you know, in defense of herself, she 135 00:07:47.519 --> 00:07:49.879 was like, well, if you look at it that way, 136 00:07:49.920 --> 00:07:52.920 I think you're normalizing pedophilia, which is shows a complete 137 00:07:52.959 --> 00:07:54.959 lack of understanding about what that's Also. 138 00:07:54.720 --> 00:07:58.439 That the whole dress is rooted in female liberation, which 139 00:07:58.639 --> 00:07:59.120 I don't know. 140 00:07:59.199 --> 00:08:01.639 I don't think that's true either. The baby doll dress 141 00:08:01.800 --> 00:08:05.160 was it was a pedophile dream. I mean, that's how 142 00:08:05.160 --> 00:08:08.560 it has evolved. I get it. And she should not 143 00:08:08.639 --> 00:08:11.920 be criticized, right, and no woman actually should be criticized 144 00:08:11.959 --> 00:08:15.600 for wearing those dresses. But they do have implications to them, 145 00:08:15.680 --> 00:08:19.319 and pretending that they don't, right is And she did 146 00:08:19.319 --> 00:08:22.720 this thing where she said, you know where she fell 147 00:08:22.759 --> 00:08:24.879 back on I get it. She fell back on the 148 00:08:24.879 --> 00:08:28.600 whole we're policing what women wear kind of thing. And 149 00:08:28.600 --> 00:08:30.439 and you know that tends to get my back up 150 00:08:30.519 --> 00:08:32.360 because I've been hearing that for twenty years, for as 151 00:08:32.440 --> 00:08:35.720 long as we've been doing what we do because we're 152 00:08:35.720 --> 00:08:40.440 not policing what women wear. We're discussing what fashion does, 153 00:08:40.759 --> 00:08:45.159 what meanings and aesthetics and messages and fashion send out. 154 00:08:45.919 --> 00:08:46.720 And I think. 155 00:08:46.519 --> 00:08:48.519 There's a crowd out there to do what you just 156 00:08:48.559 --> 00:08:52.080 said we don't do. But again, and she's responding to that, 157 00:08:52.159 --> 00:08:54.679 and I understand that. I'm sure people called her a 158 00:08:54.720 --> 00:08:57.159 whore or whatever. I'm sure they called her a slut. 159 00:08:57.200 --> 00:09:00.200 And she made the point that she she said, as 160 00:09:00.200 --> 00:09:03.320 you know, like for example, I've I've worn more revealing outfits. 161 00:09:03.480 --> 00:09:06.200 It's not about a And I think that's that's that's 162 00:09:06.240 --> 00:09:09.159 when she missed a point. It's not about you what 163 00:09:09.240 --> 00:09:14.120 you wear. It's you choosing a certain item that has 164 00:09:14.159 --> 00:09:16.120 a whole history of a lot of things. 165 00:09:16.159 --> 00:09:22.720 So again, TikTok generation is so uh. Their antenna are 166 00:09:22.799 --> 00:09:25.519 so up for like pedophile and age gap and all 167 00:09:25.559 --> 00:09:27.679 that I can't even mention the words, Yeah, you can't. 168 00:09:27.759 --> 00:09:31.960 So it's not surprising that this abrupted among fans among 169 00:09:32.000 --> 00:09:36.399 young people. But they aren't wrong to point out like 170 00:09:36.559 --> 00:09:40.600 that is what the implication it is juvenile dresses that 171 00:09:40.639 --> 00:09:43.200 are made to make adult women look sexy. 172 00:09:43.360 --> 00:09:46.279 Also, we have to point out that someone likely we 173 00:09:46.360 --> 00:09:47.600 were doing her fans are. 174 00:09:47.559 --> 00:09:50.200 Very young, and she's very young, so I catty. 175 00:09:49.960 --> 00:09:54.840 Young and you know, anyway, I think she was shocked, honestly, 176 00:09:55.879 --> 00:09:58.799 but you know, I understand that. But at the same time, 177 00:09:59.039 --> 00:10:03.279 you have forty p people around your creating a package 178 00:10:03.279 --> 00:10:07.960 here to promote your album. Uh, and nobody discussed that baby. 179 00:10:07.720 --> 00:10:12.480 Well yeah, okay, but I think that, like I said, 180 00:10:12.519 --> 00:10:14.559 to wear baby do all dresses on stage, there's no 181 00:10:14.639 --> 00:10:17.000 scan career, but I think there probably should have been 182 00:10:17.000 --> 00:10:20.519 a prepared understand why. That's what it goes to what 183 00:10:20.559 --> 00:10:23.159 you said about, well, why are you wearing for. 184 00:10:23.120 --> 00:10:26.200 This specific album? Yeah? Why? I mean because usually you 185 00:10:26.320 --> 00:10:28.720 choose a whole package. You know, at least that's most 186 00:10:28.720 --> 00:10:32.200 people do. Sabrina Corbet or Taylor Swift, they all do, 187 00:10:33.320 --> 00:10:38.679 so I don't know. Yeah, So anyway, we're still talking 188 00:10:38.679 --> 00:10:42.240 about it and magazines are writing articles about it. 189 00:10:42.279 --> 00:10:44.440 They're gonna be on the Runway next season. Yeah, I 190 00:10:44.480 --> 00:10:47.840 mean probably pretty much brought them back. And you know, 191 00:10:47.919 --> 00:10:51.360 we've been doing style commentary for twenty years now and 192 00:10:52.320 --> 00:10:56.399 they they were in style during that period, so it 193 00:10:56.440 --> 00:10:59.240 hasn't been that long since baby doll dresses were last 194 00:10:59.320 --> 00:11:02.720 in style. Probably I don't know, circa two thousand and 195 00:11:02.759 --> 00:11:04.519 eight or so, it's probably been about fifteen. 196 00:11:04.960 --> 00:11:07.519 As a queer man, queer man, I think it's a 197 00:11:07.559 --> 00:11:08.080 great look. 198 00:11:09.240 --> 00:11:11.960 I know, I always thought it was a disturbing I did. 199 00:11:12.080 --> 00:11:14.919 It's especially when they really embraced the little girls. 200 00:11:15.159 --> 00:11:17.000 It depends on how you style it the way she 201 00:11:17.080 --> 00:11:19.000 did the way she did it, I. 202 00:11:18.960 --> 00:11:21.360 Thought it was confusing. The black boots just kind of 203 00:11:21.519 --> 00:11:23.639 like now. I mean, if you want to wear like 204 00:11:23.720 --> 00:11:26.559 high top sneakers or something, that's fine, but I don't 205 00:11:26.639 --> 00:11:29.960 I didn't think the black boots went all right. Moving 206 00:11:30.279 --> 00:11:40.159 on Billy Eichner, comic Billy Eigner, he God bless him. 207 00:11:40.360 --> 00:11:43.799 I've always been a fan of Billy as a loud 208 00:11:43.799 --> 00:11:46.399 mouth gay man with a lot of opinions. I feel 209 00:11:46.399 --> 00:11:50.600 like very simpatico with him. I also feel that he 210 00:11:55.639 --> 00:11:59.200 like certain gay men in the public eye who have 211 00:11:59.440 --> 00:12:05.759 made their careers on being loud and obnoxious gay men. 212 00:12:05.879 --> 00:12:08.720 And again there's a certain sympathy there, like, Okay, we 213 00:12:08.720 --> 00:12:10.840 we sort of did the same thing, although we're bloggers 214 00:12:10.919 --> 00:12:14.440 not not actors. There's a certain sympathy because I could 215 00:12:14.759 --> 00:12:18.080 I could tell for years that he was struggling against 216 00:12:18.159 --> 00:12:20.440 the image of himself that he had put out in 217 00:12:20.480 --> 00:12:23.080 the world of this screaming, screaming. 218 00:12:22.679 --> 00:12:27.200 Homosexuallyrand and he didn't like it. He didn't like it. 219 00:12:27.360 --> 00:12:30.799 He actually said that he didn't like that everyone associated 220 00:12:30.840 --> 00:12:33.240 him with the Billy on the Street type of you know, 221 00:12:33.679 --> 00:12:37.960 screaming you know, persona asking questions, blah blah blah. But 222 00:12:38.200 --> 00:12:41.600 you know, I don't know, you know what you got. 223 00:12:41.679 --> 00:12:44.799 Really, let's let's talk about why we're talking about Billy. 224 00:12:45.320 --> 00:12:48.679 There was a big splashy New York Times article this week, 225 00:12:48.759 --> 00:12:54.320 of course, of course, for his new memoir, And I 226 00:12:54.440 --> 00:12:57.360 could not roll my eyes at this hard enough because 227 00:12:57.679 --> 00:12:59.720 first off, it's Billy on Billy is the name of 228 00:12:59.759 --> 00:13:04.639 the Let me just say I do like Billy. He's 229 00:13:04.679 --> 00:13:07.600 carved out and knits for himself that he seems intent 230 00:13:07.720 --> 00:13:14.120 on destroying. But I also think in recent years his 231 00:13:14.320 --> 00:13:17.879 sense of self is very inflated, like you're just not 232 00:13:18.000 --> 00:13:20.360 that big a deal, Billy Eichner, You're not that big 233 00:13:20.399 --> 00:13:24.240 a comedian, You're not that big a celebrity, and like 234 00:13:24.320 --> 00:13:26.519 Billy on Billy, Like, okay, well, are there a lot 235 00:13:26.519 --> 00:13:28.320 of people that were asking for that? I know this 236 00:13:28.399 --> 00:13:33.240 sounds meaner than I wanted. At least Madonna, I mean 237 00:13:33.320 --> 00:13:36.879 Barbara and Barbara, that makes sense, Liza, Unliza, but come on, 238 00:13:37.279 --> 00:13:42.600 And it's also I'm being really mean here. But it's 239 00:13:42.639 --> 00:13:46.840 an audio only memoir. Yes, it's a sad podcast, which 240 00:13:46.919 --> 00:13:49.519 which to me was like what he didn't write it. 241 00:13:49.759 --> 00:13:53.559 His explanation was that because he's always creamy and people 242 00:13:53.600 --> 00:13:56.840 assist with Billy on the street, he wanted to have 243 00:13:56.879 --> 00:14:00.639 a soft because he talks about his mother, who story 244 00:14:00.799 --> 00:14:03.799 I know, and his mother his father they both passed. 245 00:14:03.879 --> 00:14:06.159 But ostensibly the point of the book, like he adds 246 00:14:06.159 --> 00:14:08.240 all the mom and dad stuff in there, But the point, 247 00:14:08.279 --> 00:14:10.080 the central point of the book, and the point of 248 00:14:10.080 --> 00:14:14.480 the piece in the in the New York Times, was 249 00:14:14.519 --> 00:14:17.879 that he how painful it was that his movie flopped, right, 250 00:14:18.519 --> 00:14:21.840 Christ So we talked about Bros. When it first came out, 251 00:14:22.240 --> 00:14:24.080 and we did a podcast about it. I should have 252 00:14:24.120 --> 00:14:26.240 gone back to listen to it. And I don't think 253 00:14:26.320 --> 00:14:27.399 we trashed the film. 254 00:14:27.759 --> 00:14:28.399 No, we didn't. 255 00:14:28.519 --> 00:14:30.759 It was a it was you know, it was okay, 256 00:14:31.320 --> 00:14:33.120 but we kind of trashed him for how he was 257 00:14:33.159 --> 00:14:34.360 acting during that period. 258 00:14:34.440 --> 00:14:35.639 But the thing is that I don't know what he 259 00:14:35.720 --> 00:14:40.039 was Wait, I mean expecting look at this movie now 260 00:14:40.200 --> 00:14:43.519 with Jennifer Lopez office roommate. I mean, we're gonna forget 261 00:14:43.519 --> 00:14:46.679 about this movie five minutes. My point is that people 262 00:14:46.759 --> 00:14:49.799 do shit and they don't become huge successful. 263 00:14:50.159 --> 00:14:57.159 He so Bros. Was a gay romantic comedy, and from 264 00:14:57.200 --> 00:15:01.200 the jump he couldn't just let this be like, here's 265 00:15:01.240 --> 00:15:05.519 my gay romantic comedy. It became this big like issue 266 00:15:05.799 --> 00:15:10.320 where we all needed to support this because and straight 267 00:15:10.440 --> 00:15:14.120 people needed to support this. And I remember he made 268 00:15:14.240 --> 00:15:16.320 such a big deal out of the fact that literally 269 00:15:16.399 --> 00:15:20.480 not every single member of the cast was some form 270 00:15:20.519 --> 00:15:26.679 of queer and I was like, well, why, that's that's 271 00:15:26.799 --> 00:15:31.120 just goofy gimmickry. That's just if you don't need to 272 00:15:31.200 --> 00:15:33.279 make sure there are no straight people on your set 273 00:15:33.320 --> 00:15:36.000 when you make a gay film, that sort of gimmicky 274 00:15:36.120 --> 00:15:39.879 short of nonsense. That's that actually put a pall over 275 00:15:39.919 --> 00:15:42.799 the film before it even came out. I remember he 276 00:15:42.960 --> 00:15:45.840 was on I think the VMA's or something one of 277 00:15:45.879 --> 00:15:48.080 the MTV shows. It might have been the Movie Awards, 278 00:15:49.200 --> 00:15:52.080 and he did this big riff about America needs to 279 00:15:52.080 --> 00:15:54.360 come out like he did into his microphone America needs 280 00:15:54.360 --> 00:15:56.320 to come out and support gay blah blah blah. 281 00:15:56.360 --> 00:15:58.120 I think we came a long way when it comes 282 00:15:58.159 --> 00:16:02.879 to queer entertainment TV shows, but we're not there yet. 283 00:16:03.000 --> 00:16:06.639 I mean, look, even Heated Rivalry is a huge success 284 00:16:06.720 --> 00:16:09.080 right now, but it's not like across the board. I mean, 285 00:16:09.200 --> 00:16:11.519 it's not for everybody. 286 00:16:10.639 --> 00:16:12.840 No, but it is the kind of success that he 287 00:16:12.919 --> 00:16:13.919 wanted for pros. 288 00:16:14.039 --> 00:16:16.759 But well they're both young, and yeah, that's a whole 289 00:16:16.759 --> 00:16:19.039 different story. But anyway, my point is that we're not 290 00:16:19.159 --> 00:16:23.320 there yet. I have watched so many great things that 291 00:16:23.799 --> 00:16:26.559 you know, it's not for everybody. It doesn't interest everybody 292 00:16:26.600 --> 00:16:29.879 because we're still very much you know, white straight society. 293 00:16:30.080 --> 00:16:32.440 Not only that. I mean, and I remember saying this 294 00:16:32.480 --> 00:16:36.600 at the time with Bros. Bros was every bit a 295 00:16:36.919 --> 00:16:40.759 classic rom com in style, all the in the character types, 296 00:16:40.799 --> 00:16:43.559 in the plot points. And I don't like rom coms, 297 00:16:43.720 --> 00:16:48.039 and I would wager that a significant portion of gay 298 00:16:48.080 --> 00:16:51.320 men are just not into Heated Rivalry. Well, I said 299 00:16:51.320 --> 00:16:53.679 this before he did. Rivalry wasn't for gay man. It 300 00:16:53.720 --> 00:16:57.240 was the straight win. That's why it's so But gay 301 00:16:57.279 --> 00:17:00.000 men generally, and I know there is a gay romance 302 00:17:00.080 --> 00:17:03.720 its fandom, and a significant portion of those are gay men. 303 00:17:03.840 --> 00:17:06.839 But generally, as a group, I don't think we're especially 304 00:17:07.559 --> 00:17:11.480 when you get into like elder millennials and above. We 305 00:17:11.920 --> 00:17:15.160 were not socialized to embrace that sort of thing. So 306 00:17:15.240 --> 00:17:17.200 the whole point of that movie, I was like, all right, 307 00:17:17.279 --> 00:17:20.759 I'll watch it, but I'm not into these kinds of stories. 308 00:17:20.599 --> 00:17:24.720 Right, and yeah, I can only speak for experience. I mean, 309 00:17:24.799 --> 00:17:28.039 when we talk about rum coms in general, iro at 310 00:17:28.039 --> 00:17:30.000 that this is not for me. There's not for me. 311 00:17:30.160 --> 00:17:32.839 And I remember having conversation with my queer friends and 312 00:17:32.960 --> 00:17:35.960 even queer rum they were just like, oh what now. 313 00:17:35.960 --> 00:17:39.519 The only one I ever liked was Fire Island. Yeah, right, 314 00:17:40.240 --> 00:17:44.559 and again Billy. Both of those films came out in 315 00:17:44.599 --> 00:17:48.160 the same year, and Billy kind of accidentally or he 316 00:17:48.240 --> 00:17:52.400 made some rather dismissive commentary about it. She didn't go well, 317 00:17:52.480 --> 00:17:55.079 which didn't got I mean, the whole everything about how 318 00:17:55.119 --> 00:17:58.039 he handled that film. He was expecting too much, the 319 00:17:58.079 --> 00:18:00.359 thing is, and then he had a public Milton when 320 00:18:00.559 --> 00:18:03.839 you know, he blamed straight people for a right for 321 00:18:03.880 --> 00:18:07.400 some reason, he thought that you know, straight people owe 322 00:18:07.480 --> 00:18:09.440 that to him, you know, like that they would have 323 00:18:09.519 --> 00:18:13.400 to like, support this movie because whatever, it doesn't work 324 00:18:13.440 --> 00:18:15.359 that way, it doesn't it doesn't work. I mean, you know, 325 00:18:15.480 --> 00:18:18.200 I've you look at someone like Ben Wishaw, for example, 326 00:18:18.319 --> 00:18:19.640 amazing actor. 327 00:18:20.119 --> 00:18:23.119 He pretty much plays a gay character in everything. 328 00:18:22.880 --> 00:18:25.359 Because he can't. I mean, he has it'd be very 329 00:18:25.440 --> 00:18:27.440 hard to cast that guy as a straight man, right, And. 330 00:18:27.400 --> 00:18:30.640 He talks about that. But he's so talented and look, 331 00:18:30.839 --> 00:18:34.319 you know, I mean, I mean, he finds interesting roles, 332 00:18:34.599 --> 00:18:37.480 but he's not like, you know, very very famous, you know, 333 00:18:37.559 --> 00:18:40.559 like that everybody is running to see his movies or 334 00:18:40.599 --> 00:18:42.200 TV shows. That's what that's my point. 335 00:18:42.319 --> 00:18:46.039 Yeah, that's I just wanted to bring it up because 336 00:18:46.079 --> 00:18:48.519 I do feel bad for him. He really can't let 337 00:18:48.559 --> 00:18:53.759 this go, and I think he's destroying his brand. To 338 00:18:53.799 --> 00:18:56.559 be perfectly honest, like, if your whole thing is I 339 00:18:56.599 --> 00:18:59.319 want to be soft spoken Billy, well okay, good luck 340 00:18:59.359 --> 00:19:01.480 with that, but that that's not what people want from you. 341 00:19:02.200 --> 00:19:04.200 I mean, I understand if you don't want to be 342 00:19:04.319 --> 00:19:06.480 screaming at total strangers on the street for the rest 343 00:19:06.480 --> 00:19:09.960 of your career, I get it. But this complete one 344 00:19:10.039 --> 00:19:13.240 eighty into I'm going to write a memoir about my 345 00:19:13.279 --> 00:19:15.359 mother and my feelings like, all right, well, I don't 346 00:19:15.400 --> 00:19:17.799 really think this is what people want from you, much 347 00:19:17.920 --> 00:19:20.359 like Bros Was not what people wanted from you. 348 00:19:20.880 --> 00:19:24.960 I understand wanting to expand your career and do other things, 349 00:19:25.000 --> 00:19:27.319 but sometimes it doesn't work and you just have to 350 00:19:27.319 --> 00:19:27.680 face it. 351 00:19:27.960 --> 00:19:30.279 Yeah, all right, we've rambled a bit too long here. 352 00:19:30.400 --> 00:19:32.519 Let's go for a break and then we'll come back 353 00:19:32.519 --> 00:19:35.480 and talk about one more bit of celebrity gossip before 354 00:19:35.480 --> 00:19:37.559 we jump into the TV stuff. We'll be right back. 355 00:19:38.960 --> 00:19:42.119 We're back in our final final bit of celebrity gossip 356 00:19:42.160 --> 00:19:44.559 before we launch into our TV talk. Is actually about 357 00:19:44.559 --> 00:19:47.599 a TV show mob Land, starring Pierce President and Helen 358 00:19:47.640 --> 00:19:52.079 Mirren and maybe Tom Hardy for the next season. Who knows. 359 00:19:52.559 --> 00:19:54.680 It came out this week. I'm going to toss to 360 00:19:54.759 --> 00:19:57.799 Lorenzo on this because he actually want you watched the 361 00:19:57.839 --> 00:20:00.440 full season, right, I watched both seasons. All right, let 362 00:20:00.440 --> 00:20:02.319 me just do the setup and then I'm tossing to 363 00:20:02.400 --> 00:20:06.039 you for all the details. So it came out this 364 00:20:06.079 --> 00:20:09.240 week that Tom Hardy was being fired from the show 365 00:20:09.279 --> 00:20:11.839 where he wasn't coming back for the second season, and 366 00:20:11.880 --> 00:20:16.200 then there was a flurry of reports that he and 367 00:20:16.240 --> 00:20:19.079 Helen Mirren had clash and that some of the classes 368 00:20:19.119 --> 00:20:24.000 were about Palestine, which I didn't think was really likely. 369 00:20:24.079 --> 00:20:27.119 It just sounded like a lot of publicists were trying 370 00:20:27.160 --> 00:20:31.440 to get their version of the story out, and ultimately 371 00:20:33.000 --> 00:20:35.960 I think Miron made a statement and the producers made 372 00:20:36.000 --> 00:20:39.480 a statement, and it doesn't look like he's fired, but 373 00:20:39.599 --> 00:20:42.519 it sure sounds like that is one messy as hell set. 374 00:20:42.680 --> 00:20:46.160 All right, you fill all the rest in well, it just. 375 00:20:46.599 --> 00:20:48.440 I've got to figure out what magazine on what site 376 00:20:48.960 --> 00:20:51.319 came out with an art of saying that, you know, 377 00:20:51.480 --> 00:20:54.400 Tom Hardy was fired from Moblin. That's how the whole 378 00:20:54.400 --> 00:20:57.759 thing started, right, And then everyone was like what wow, 379 00:20:58.160 --> 00:21:00.799 And then all these stories came out and well, apparently, 380 00:21:00.920 --> 00:21:04.480 and that part is true. I believe allegedly he was 381 00:21:04.519 --> 00:21:09.759 always late, but he's famous for that, and Helen Mirren specifically, 382 00:21:09.799 --> 00:21:12.799 not so much Pierce Prosen, but Halen mireor specific was 383 00:21:12.799 --> 00:21:15.160 complaining about it that you know that they wait for 384 00:21:15.279 --> 00:21:17.200 hours for him to come out and do the scene, 385 00:21:17.920 --> 00:21:23.200 so apparently he he was late. He was getting to 386 00:21:23.240 --> 00:21:27.759 fights with the show's creator and producer, presenting like script 387 00:21:27.759 --> 00:21:30.240 notes at the last minute, and you know, fighting for 388 00:21:30.319 --> 00:21:32.640 them at the last minute, that kind of stuff, so 389 00:21:32.960 --> 00:21:36.680 causing a lot of trouble on set. And you guys 390 00:21:36.759 --> 00:21:39.680 might have read in the past that Charlie then had 391 00:21:39.880 --> 00:21:42.880 kind of the same complaints about him on The Man Max. 392 00:21:42.920 --> 00:21:49.119 Apparently she was a very stressful set. They were on 393 00:21:49.160 --> 00:21:52.519 the it was very hot desert, and apparently the director 394 00:21:52.559 --> 00:21:54.559 was kind of an asshole too, That's that's what I read. 395 00:21:54.799 --> 00:21:58.240 And things were very tense, and he was always late, 396 00:21:58.359 --> 00:22:01.079 he wouldn't take forever to come out of trailer, and 397 00:22:01.480 --> 00:22:04.119 so she complained about him, and she Yeah, there's like 398 00:22:04.160 --> 00:22:06.680 a book. There's a whole book written. 399 00:22:06.359 --> 00:22:09.559 About Buchanan, who is a mutual on social media and 400 00:22:09.599 --> 00:22:12.839 writes for The New York Times. He wrote a book, Blood, 401 00:22:12.839 --> 00:22:14.759