Speaker 1: We're Tarmin Lorenzo and this is the Pop Style Opinion Fest.
Speaker 1: Hello get and welcome back to another edition of the PSO.
Speaker 1: I am the teen, you'r Tilo Tom Fitzgerald, and I'm
Speaker 1: here with the Low and your til Lorens. My love husband,
Speaker 1: are your lovely husband?
Speaker 2: Wonderfully fantastic.
Speaker 1: We have so much to talk about this topic heavy podcast.
Speaker 1: We have matters of style to discuss, matters of celebrity
Speaker 1: to discuss, and then we're going to talk about two
Speaker 1: TV shows. So it is living up to its name,
Speaker 1: The Pop Style Opinion Fest. Anything else you want any
Speaker 1: happy talking, you want to get out of your system?
Speaker 2: Oh no, it's just beautiful out, sunny, beautiful out.
Speaker 1: All the tourists are here in Philadelphia, and.
Speaker 2: I know you actually took a picture of.
Speaker 1: The line for the Liberty Bill this morning was just insane.
Speaker 1: So it's that time of year. And also it's the
Speaker 1: two hundred and fiftieth anniversary, but we won't be here
Speaker 1: for it anyway. Yeah, we're traveling to Europe, so we
Speaker 1: want this.
Speaker 2: It wasn't planned that way, We just happened to.
Speaker 1: It just happened to be. Well, we're going for a wedding.
Speaker 1: We're going to Ireland for a wedding and then we're
Speaker 1: going to We said we were going to tell people
Speaker 1: we're going to Edinburgh. After that we're.
Speaker 2: Going to Scotland. Yeah, so that's buh, very very I'm
Speaker 2: so excited. Looks like, oh my god, the most beautiful place.
Speaker 1: It's gonna be so hot though. Yes, all right, so
Speaker 1: that's our little happy talk. The cats are fine. Everything's good.
Speaker 2: Yeah, everything's fine.
Speaker 1: Everything's fine, everything's everything.
Speaker 2: Tab is coming.
Speaker 1: Tab is going to jump up on the table any second,
Speaker 1: any second, anyway with a big thump. All right, So
Speaker 1: right out the gate, let's talk about matters of fashion,
Speaker 1: which is Olivia Rodrigo, the pop singer, is embroiled in
Speaker 1: a silly little controversy. It's not really a controversy at all,
Speaker 1: but she has brought I guess single hand because I
Speaker 1: guarantee this is now going to become a fashion item.
Speaker 1: So probably single handedly has brought the baby doll dress
Speaker 1: back into style. She last month wore one on stage
Speaker 1: to perform her late.
Speaker 2: Well, it's on the cover of the new album, so
Speaker 2: it's all part of her branding of the whole package
Speaker 2: for the new album. Called you Look Pretty Sad for
Speaker 2: a growing love.
Speaker 1: Right, and then the single she wore on stage like
Speaker 1: in the video or something drop dead, which.
Speaker 2: Is amazing song I love is it okay?
Speaker 1: You know?
Speaker 2: Make me laugh? Cor Tom said that in terms of
Speaker 2: pop music, I have the dates of a sixteen year
Speaker 2: old girl, does I do? But that song is amazing. Anyway,
Speaker 2: I think she's very talented.
Speaker 1: To be honest, I think she's very talented, and I
Speaker 1: think she's very naive about baby doll dress. So let's
Speaker 1: start off with this. So she wore a baby doll dress,
Speaker 1: and let's define this baby doll dresses. It is a
Speaker 1: specific style of dress which is meant to mimic juvenile dresses,
Speaker 1: dresses for little girls. So it's a very short skirt,
Speaker 1: like very micro short skirt, like if she raised her arms,
Speaker 1: you would see her pante like you. That's usually she's
Speaker 1: built in feature of it.
Speaker 2: But she's also wearing bloomers, so it's the whole combo.
Speaker 1: Right, Usually puppy sleeves, and it doesn't have a defined waist.
Speaker 1: It's usually like triangle shaped. It's very much what little
Speaker 1: girls wear. When you put a little girl in a dress,
Speaker 1: it has a specific etymology. It has been called the
Speaker 1: baby doll dress because of the film Baby Doll in
Speaker 1: nineteen fifty six, which the lead character wore played by
Speaker 1: Carol Baker, wore a baby doll dress. And you know,
Speaker 1: Baby Doll was about a baby doll. Well, I mean,
Speaker 1: I don't know if cless why that is pedophilia, because
Speaker 1: I think she was playing a teenager, but it was.
Speaker 1: It's something it was about underage sex, and it was
Speaker 1: about about infantilizing women and as a form of sexualizing it.
Speaker 1: So this is not something that just got imposed on
Speaker 1: Olivia Rodrigo. This is a seventy year old term referring
Speaker 1: to a specific style of dress that was specifically designed
Speaker 1: to evoke childhood and sexuality. So that is a very
Speaker 1: very volatile combination. And in nineteen fifty six you could
Speaker 1: get away with that. But even then it was a
Speaker 1: controversial style. And then in the nineteen sixties that style
Speaker 1: of dress actually became popular among adult women, and it
Speaker 1: was popularized a lot by the sex kittens of the
Speaker 1: nineteen sixties, these screensiren's, big hair, winged eyes, you know,
Speaker 1: coquettish sexuality. The Bridgie Bardouz of that era and then
Speaker 1: in the nineties it was repurposed again by you know,
Speaker 1: riot girl singers like Courtney Love.
Speaker 2: Yes, uh, And it was part.
Speaker 1: Of that whole Kinderhorr movement in the nineties, which in
Speaker 1: that instance it was a sort of post feminist punk
Speaker 1: take on the baby doll because they weren't sexualizing the dress.
Speaker 1: They were removing the sexualization of it, the undertones, and
Speaker 1: they were adding all of this sort of violent punk imagery,
Speaker 1: messy hair slash, you know, messy makeup, that sort of thing, grungy,
Speaker 1: you know, adding grungy items on top of it. In
Speaker 1: all in order to take it away from its juvenile
Speaker 1: undertones and from its sexual undertones. It was more about
Speaker 1: defying those things, defying femininity, defying coquettish, and being more
Speaker 1: in your face about it. That is not what Olivia
Speaker 1: Rodrigo is doing. She's embracing it completely.
Speaker 2: Go all right. She made a statement, and I think
Speaker 2: that's what they her team had in mind to go
Speaker 2: with the court Love, because she actually mentioned I'm glad
Speaker 2: you mentioned Courton Love, because she actually said that I
Speaker 2: wanted to go with sort of like a court and
Speaker 2: Love kind of Look, if you watch the video, I
Speaker 2: don't know about the cover, can't remember, but the video
Speaker 2: she's wearing boots, you know.
Speaker 1: I know she does wear nihil black leather boots with it,
Speaker 1: which does go against the baby dolls.
Speaker 2: So it exploded everywhere with all of the social media
Speaker 2: TikTok and et cetera. And she she was kind of
Speaker 2: shocked that because you know, she's young, she's twenty three three,
Speaker 2: she's twenty three. I don't know what the team was thinking.
Speaker 2: The thing is that I wish they had an argument
Speaker 2: why they chose that dress, you know, because usually like
Speaker 2: look look at Taylor Swift for example, when she did
Speaker 2: the whole you know Vegas thing, right you show girl,
Speaker 2: she went with a showgirl look. So I wish they
Speaker 2: had a better explanation why they chose to that look
Speaker 2: for this particular album.
Speaker 1: Can I yeah, sure, I just want to I want
Speaker 1: to say here, there's no there's no real scandal here.
Speaker 1: A young woman is allowed to dress however she wants
Speaker 1: to dress, and I don't think she should be criticized
Speaker 1: for wearing baby doll dresses if that's what she wants
Speaker 1: to wear. However, those dresses are not without implications, and
Speaker 1: she is she seemed very ignorant of what the implications
Speaker 1: of those dresses are. And that's fine, All of it's fine.
Speaker 1: This is not a criticism of her, But it's more
Speaker 1: we're unpacking the fact that because she did this thing
Speaker 1: where she said, you know, in defense of herself, she
Speaker 1: was like, well, if you look at it that way,
Speaker 1: I think you're normalizing pedophilia, which is shows a complete
Speaker 1: lack of understanding about what that's Also.
Speaker 2: That the whole dress is rooted in female liberation, which
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 1: I don't think that's true either. The baby doll dress
Speaker 1: was it was a pedophile dream. I mean, that's how
Speaker 1: it has evolved. I get it. And she should not
Speaker 1: be criticized, right, and no woman actually should be criticized
Speaker 1: for wearing those dresses. But they do have implications to them,
Speaker 1: and pretending that they don't, right is And she did
Speaker 1: this thing where she said, you know where she fell
Speaker 1: back on I get it. She fell back on the
Speaker 1: whole we're policing what women wear kind of thing. And
Speaker 1: and you know that tends to get my back up
Speaker 1: because I've been hearing that for twenty years, for as
Speaker 1: long as we've been doing what we do because we're
Speaker 1: not policing what women wear. We're discussing what fashion does,
Speaker 1: what meanings and aesthetics and messages and fashion send out.
Speaker 1: And I think.
Speaker 2: There's a crowd out there to do what you just
Speaker 2: said we don't do. But again, and she's responding to that,
Speaker 2: and I understand that. I'm sure people called her a
Speaker 2: whore or whatever. I'm sure they called her a slut.
Speaker 2: And she made the point that she she said, as
Speaker 2: you know, like for example, I've I've worn more revealing outfits.
Speaker 2: It's not about a And I think that's that's that's
Speaker 2: when she missed a point. It's not about you what
Speaker 2: you wear. It's you choosing a certain item that has
Speaker 2: a whole history of a lot of things.
Speaker 1: So again, TikTok generation is so uh. Their antenna are
Speaker 1: so up for like pedophile and age gap and all
Speaker 1: that I can't even mention the words, Yeah, you can't.
Speaker 1: So it's not surprising that this abrupted among fans among
Speaker 1: young people. But they aren't wrong to point out like
Speaker 1: that is what the implication it is juvenile dresses that
Speaker 1: are made to make adult women look sexy.
Speaker 2: Also, we have to point out that someone likely we
Speaker 2: were doing her fans are.
Speaker 1: Very young, and she's very young, so I catty.
Speaker 2: Young and you know, anyway, I think she was shocked, honestly,
Speaker 2: but you know, I understand that. But at the same time,
Speaker 2: you have forty p people around your creating a package
Speaker 2: here to promote your album. Uh, and nobody discussed that baby.
Speaker 1: Well yeah, okay, but I think that, like I said,
Speaker 1: to wear baby do all dresses on stage, there's no
Speaker 1: scan career, but I think there probably should have been
Speaker 1: a prepared understand why. That's what it goes to what
Speaker 1: you said about, well, why are you wearing for.
Speaker 2: This specific album? Yeah? Why? I mean because usually you
Speaker 2: choose a whole package. You know, at least that's most
Speaker 2: people do. Sabrina Corbet or Taylor Swift, they all do,
Speaker 2: so I don't know. Yeah, So anyway, we're still talking
Speaker 2: about it and magazines are writing articles about it.
Speaker 1: They're gonna be on the Runway next season. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean probably pretty much brought them back. And you know,
Speaker 1: we've been doing style commentary for twenty years now and
Speaker 1: they they were in style during that period, so it
Speaker 1: hasn't been that long since baby doll dresses were last
Speaker 1: in style. Probably I don't know, circa two thousand and
Speaker 1: eight or so, it's probably been about fifteen.
Speaker 2: As a queer man, queer man, I think it's a
Speaker 2: great look.
Speaker 1: I know, I always thought it was a disturbing I did.
Speaker 1: It's especially when they really embraced the little girls.
Speaker 2: It depends on how you style it the way she
Speaker 2: did the way she did it, I.
Speaker 1: Thought it was confusing. The black boots just kind of
Speaker 1: like now. I mean, if you want to wear like
Speaker 1: high top sneakers or something, that's fine, but I don't
Speaker 1: I didn't think the black boots went all right. Moving
Speaker 1: on Billy Eichner, comic Billy Eigner, he God bless him.
Speaker 1: I've always been a fan of Billy as a loud
Speaker 1: mouth gay man with a lot of opinions. I feel
Speaker 1: like very simpatico with him. I also feel that he
Speaker 1: like certain gay men in the public eye who have
Speaker 1: made their careers on being loud and obnoxious gay men.
Speaker 1: And again there's a certain sympathy there, like, Okay, we
Speaker 1: we sort of did the same thing, although we're bloggers
Speaker 1: not not actors. There's a certain sympathy because I could
Speaker 1: I could tell for years that he was struggling against
Speaker 1: the image of himself that he had put out in
Speaker 1: the world of this screaming, screaming.
Speaker 2: Homosexuallyrand and he didn't like it. He didn't like it.
Speaker 2: He actually said that he didn't like that everyone associated
Speaker 2: him with the Billy on the Street type of you know,
Speaker 2: screaming you know, persona asking questions, blah blah blah. But
Speaker 2: you know, I don't know, you know what you got.
Speaker 1: Really, let's let's talk about why we're talking about Billy.
Speaker 1: There was a big splashy New York Times article this week,
Speaker 1: of course, of course, for his new memoir, And I
Speaker 1: could not roll my eyes at this hard enough because
Speaker 1: first off, it's Billy on Billy is the name of
Speaker 1: the Let me just say I do like Billy. He's
Speaker 1: carved out and knits for himself that he seems intent
Speaker 1: on destroying. But I also think in recent years his
Speaker 1: sense of self is very inflated, like you're just not
Speaker 1: that big a deal, Billy Eichner, You're not that big
Speaker 1: a comedian, You're not that big a celebrity, and like
Speaker 1: Billy on Billy, Like, okay, well, are there a lot
Speaker 1: of people that were asking for that? I know this
Speaker 1: sounds meaner than I wanted. At least Madonna, I mean
Speaker 1: Barbara and Barbara, that makes sense, Liza, Unliza, but come on,
Speaker 1: And it's also I'm being really mean here. But it's
Speaker 1: an audio only memoir. Yes, it's a sad podcast, which
Speaker 1: which to me was like what he didn't write it.
Speaker 2: His explanation was that because he's always creamy and people
Speaker 2: assist with Billy on the street, he wanted to have
Speaker 2: a soft because he talks about his mother, who story
Speaker 2: I know, and his mother his father they both passed.
Speaker 1: But ostensibly the point of the book, like he adds
Speaker 1: all the mom and dad stuff in there, But the point,
Speaker 1: the central point of the book, and the point of
Speaker 1: the piece in the in the New York Times, was
Speaker 1: that he how painful it was that his movie flopped, right,
Speaker 1: Christ So we talked about Bros. When it first came out,
Speaker 1: and we did a podcast about it. I should have
Speaker 1: gone back to listen to it. And I don't think
Speaker 1: we trashed the film.
Speaker 2: No, we didn't.
Speaker 1: It was a it was you know, it was okay,
Speaker 1: but we kind of trashed him for how he was
Speaker 1: acting during that period.
Speaker 2: But the thing is that I don't know what he
Speaker 2: was Wait, I mean expecting look at this movie now
Speaker 2: with Jennifer Lopez office roommate. I mean, we're gonna forget
Speaker 2: about this movie five minutes. My point is that people
Speaker 2: do shit and they don't become huge successful.
Speaker 1: He so Bros. Was a gay romantic comedy, and from
Speaker 1: the jump he couldn't just let this be like, here's
Speaker 1: my gay romantic comedy. It became this big like issue
Speaker 1: where we all needed to support this because and straight
Speaker 1: people needed to support this. And I remember he made
Speaker 1: such a big deal out of the fact that literally
Speaker 1: not every single member of the cast was some form
Speaker 1: of queer and I was like, well, why, that's that's
Speaker 1: just goofy gimmickry. That's just if you don't need to
Speaker 1: make sure there are no straight people on your set
Speaker 1: when you make a gay film, that sort of gimmicky
Speaker 1: short of nonsense. That's that actually put a pall over
Speaker 1: the film before it even came out. I remember he
Speaker 1: was on I think the VMA's or something one of
Speaker 1: the MTV shows. It might have been the Movie Awards,
Speaker 1: and he did this big riff about America needs to
Speaker 1: come out like he did into his microphone America needs
Speaker 1: to come out and support gay blah blah blah.
Speaker 2: I think we came a long way when it comes
Speaker 2: to queer entertainment TV shows, but we're not there yet.
Speaker 2: I mean, look, even Heated Rivalry is a huge success
Speaker 2: right now, but it's not like across the board. I mean,
Speaker 2: it's not for everybody.
Speaker 1: No, but it is the kind of success that he
Speaker 1: wanted for pros.
Speaker 2: But well they're both young, and yeah, that's a whole
Speaker 2: different story. But anyway, my point is that we're not
Speaker 2: there yet. I have watched so many great things that
Speaker 2: you know, it's not for everybody. It doesn't interest everybody
Speaker 2: because we're still very much you know, white straight society.
Speaker 1: Not only that. I mean, and I remember saying this
Speaker 1: at the time with Bros. Bros was every bit a
Speaker 1: classic rom com in style, all the in the character types,
Speaker 1: in the plot points. And I don't like rom coms,
Speaker 1: and I would wager that a significant portion of gay
Speaker 1: men are just not into Heated Rivalry. Well, I said
Speaker 1: this before he did. Rivalry wasn't for gay man. It
Speaker 1: was the straight win. That's why it's so But gay
Speaker 1: men generally, and I know there is a gay romance
Speaker 1: its fandom, and a significant portion of those are gay men.
Speaker 1: But generally, as a group, I don't think we're especially
Speaker 1: when you get into like elder millennials and above. We
Speaker 1: were not socialized to embrace that sort of thing. So
Speaker 1: the whole point of that movie, I was like, all right,
Speaker 1: I'll watch it, but I'm not into these kinds of stories.
Speaker 2: Right, and yeah, I can only speak for experience. I mean,
Speaker 2: when we talk about rum coms in general, iro at
Speaker 2: that this is not for me. There's not for me.
Speaker 2: And I remember having conversation with my queer friends and
Speaker 2: even queer rum they were just like, oh what now.
Speaker 1: The only one I ever liked was Fire Island. Yeah, right,
Speaker 1: and again Billy. Both of those films came out in
Speaker 1: the same year, and Billy kind of accidentally or he
Speaker 1: made some rather dismissive commentary about it. She didn't go well,
Speaker 1: which didn't got I mean, the whole everything about how
Speaker 1: he handled that film. He was expecting too much, the
Speaker 1: thing is, and then he had a public Milton when
Speaker 1: you know, he blamed straight people for a right for
Speaker 1: some reason, he thought that you know, straight people owe
Speaker 1: that to him, you know, like that they would have
Speaker 1: to like, support this movie because whatever, it doesn't work
Speaker 1: that way, it doesn't it doesn't work. I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: I've you look at someone like Ben Wishaw, for example,
Speaker 1: amazing actor.
Speaker 2: He pretty much plays a gay character in everything.
Speaker 1: Because he can't. I mean, he has it'd be very
Speaker 1: hard to cast that guy as a straight man, right, And.
Speaker 2: He talks about that. But he's so talented and look,
Speaker 2: you know, I mean, I mean, he finds interesting roles,
Speaker 2: but he's not like, you know, very very famous, you know,
Speaker 2: like that everybody is running to see his movies or
Speaker 2: TV shows. That's what that's my point.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's I just wanted to bring it up because
Speaker 1: I do feel bad for him. He really can't let
Speaker 1: this go, and I think he's destroying his brand. To
Speaker 1: be perfectly honest, like, if your whole thing is I
Speaker 1: want to be soft spoken Billy, well okay, good luck
Speaker 1: with that, but that that's not what people want from you.
Speaker 1: I mean, I understand if you don't want to be
Speaker 1: screaming at total strangers on the street for the rest
Speaker 1: of your career, I get it. But this complete one
Speaker 1: eighty into I'm going to write a memoir about my
Speaker 1: mother and my feelings like, all right, well, I don't
Speaker 1: really think this is what people want from you, much
Speaker 1: like Bros Was not what people wanted from you.
Speaker 2: I understand wanting to expand your career and do other things,
Speaker 2: but sometimes it doesn't work and you just have to
Speaker 2: face it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, we've rambled a bit too long here.
Speaker 1: Let's go for a break and then we'll come back
Speaker 1: and talk about one more bit of celebrity gossip before
Speaker 1: we jump into the TV stuff. We'll be right back.
Speaker 1: We're back in our final final bit of celebrity gossip
Speaker 1: before we launch into our TV talk. Is actually about
Speaker 1: a TV show mob Land, starring Pierce President and Helen
Speaker 1: Mirren and maybe Tom Hardy for the next season. Who knows.
Speaker 1: It came out this week. I'm going to toss to
Speaker 1: Lorenzo on this because he actually want you watched the
Speaker 1: full season, right, I watched both seasons. All right, let
Speaker 1: me just do the setup and then I'm tossing to
Speaker 1: you for all the details. So it came out this
Speaker 1: week that Tom Hardy was being fired from the show
Speaker 1: where he wasn't coming back for the second season, and
Speaker 1: then there was a flurry of reports that he and
Speaker 1: Helen Mirren had clash and that some of the classes
Speaker 1: were about Palestine, which I didn't think was really likely.
Speaker 1: It just sounded like a lot of publicists were trying
Speaker 1: to get their version of the story out, and ultimately
Speaker 1: I think Miron made a statement and the producers made
Speaker 1: a statement, and it doesn't look like he's fired, but
Speaker 1: it sure sounds like that is one messy as hell set.
Speaker 1: All right, you fill all the rest in well, it just.
Speaker 2: I've got to figure out what magazine on what site
Speaker 2: came out with an art of saying that, you know,
Speaker 2: Tom Hardy was fired from Moblin. That's how the whole
Speaker 2: thing started, right, And then everyone was like what wow,
Speaker 2: And then all these stories came out and well, apparently,
Speaker 2: and that part is true. I believe allegedly he was
Speaker 2: always late, but he's famous for that, and Helen Mirren specifically,
Speaker 2: not so much Pierce Prosen, but Halen mireor specific was
Speaker 2: complaining about it that you know that they wait for
Speaker 2: hours for him to come out and do the scene,
Speaker 2: so apparently he he was late. He was getting to
Speaker 2: fights with the show's creator and producer, presenting like script
Speaker 2: notes at the last minute, and you know, fighting for
Speaker 2: them at the last minute, that kind of stuff, so
Speaker 2: causing a lot of trouble on set. And you guys
Speaker 2: might have read in the past that Charlie then had
Speaker 2: kind of the same complaints about him on The Man Max.
Speaker 2: Apparently she was a very stressful set. They were on
Speaker 2: the it was very hot desert, and apparently the director
Speaker 2: was kind of an asshole too, That's that's what I read.
Speaker 2: And things were very tense, and he was always late,
Speaker 2: he wouldn't take forever to come out of trailer, and
Speaker 2: so she complained about him, and she Yeah, there's like
Speaker 2: a book. There's a whole book written.
Speaker 1: About Buchanan, who is a mutual on social media and
Speaker 1: writes for The New York Times. He wrote a book, Blood,
Speaker 1: Sweat and Crown, The Wild and True Story of Mad
Speaker 1: Max Fierry wrote.
Speaker 2: A couple of years ago.
Speaker 1: The set was brutal, and it was a legendarily a
Speaker 1: contentious set, and it made it sound like it was
Speaker 1: mostly him. I mean, I don't think Charlie's has a
Speaker 1: reputation for being difficult, but Tom Hardy absolutely does.
Speaker 2: And the thing is that Charlie theren is she is tough.
Speaker 2: She's a tough woman.
Speaker 1: She was scared, but she says that's my point.
Speaker 2: I mean, if she complained about it and said she
Speaker 2: was kind of like worried and it's you know, scared,
Speaker 2: I mean that something happened. I mean, but apparently he
Speaker 2: was in character being an asshole the whole time and
Speaker 2: even want to come out of histrailia blah blah blah
Speaker 2: blah blah. So anyway, so the same thing apparently was
Speaker 2: happening again with Moblin. And the thing is that these
Speaker 2: three actors are a main.
Speaker 1: Character, central character.
Speaker 2: So take Tom Hardy. How are you gonna explain that? Right?
Speaker 1: I guess I could kill him off?
Speaker 2: Why now? But even so then you don't have a
Speaker 2: show anymore certain way anyway, So I think that's why
Speaker 2: he's not getting fired because they can't. They can't fire
Speaker 2: him because otherwise they don't have a show. They don't
Speaker 2: have a third season. That's my take.
Speaker 1: There's not gonna be They're gonna have one really right,
Speaker 1: gritted teeth season. Now obvious that everybody in the cast
Speaker 1: hates each other, and then they're not coming back. That's
Speaker 1: what's probably gonna happen.
Speaker 2: The thing is that I think Helen Muhraan wasn't liking.
Speaker 2: She didn't like the whole narrative about her, you know,
Speaker 2: because then on social media and TikTok specifically, they were
Speaker 2: talking about, well, she's pro Israel and he's propoust to
Speaker 2: and that's why, you know, she probably told them to fight.
Speaker 1: I don't think so.
Speaker 2: I don't think that any of that happened. Yeah, I know,
Speaker 2: and I think she didn't like that. That's why she
Speaker 2: posted something on Instagram about him, saying, you know, like,
Speaker 2: I don't know, I love you, but.
Speaker 1: Some some but it sounded like he was difficult on seting.
Speaker 2: I think he was just difficult, and you know, and
Speaker 2: that's something I never understood. I read stories about that,
Speaker 2: and I'm like, all right, you very famous, but come on,
Speaker 2: that's not professional.
Speaker 1: You know, like that the whole not coming out of
Speaker 1: your trailer thing.
Speaker 2: I now, wow, you I still still do that. I know.
Speaker 2: I don't think that kind of depth my point. I
Speaker 2: don't think that kind of behavior should be accepted.
Speaker 1: I don't think it is as accepted as it once was.
Speaker 1: So that's why this is coming out. But that whole
Speaker 1: you know, abusing the crew, make wasting hours a time,
Speaker 1: you know, the industry is not flush with cash at
Speaker 1: the moment, so we can't put up with that sort
Speaker 1: of ship. You can't put up with stars, you know,
Speaker 1: wasting hamp a day or whatever.
Speaker 2: You lose the light, you lose something.
Speaker 1: You're paying union wages to everyone to stand around.
Speaker 2: So I think I was.
Speaker 1: Actually a little surprised to hear those whole Oh he
Speaker 1: spent hours in his trailer.
Speaker 2: I was like, Wow, they still do that. Huh they do,
Speaker 2: And I think that's why he hasn't been fired, because
Speaker 2: they need it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I always thought he was an asshole. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I always thought he was an asshole.
Speaker 2: I know, I don't know. He's so great in the show.
Speaker 1: I think he's a great actor, but a person, I'm like,
Speaker 1: I can just tell that's not someone you'd want to work.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, I mean he looks and sounds difficult.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he sounds difficult. All right, let's just lead into
Speaker 1: the next and we'll start talking about Hacks.
Speaker 2: Oh my god. Yes, Well, we.
Speaker 1: Have two shows to talk about this week, one of
Speaker 1: which we're saying goodbye to and the other one we're
Speaker 1: saying hello too. So we're going to talk about Hacks,
Speaker 1: which had its finale series finale last night, and we're
Speaker 1: just gonna talk about the entire series and the final season,
Speaker 1: and then after that, we're going to talk about Widow's
Speaker 1: Bay on Apple TV, which is our new favorite show
Speaker 1: and you absolutely need to watch it, and we're going
Speaker 1: to talk about that after Hacks, and the beginning of
Speaker 1: that convo will be spoiler free, but the end of
Speaker 1: that conversation, which we will give you warnings, we're going
Speaker 1: to get into spoilers because I know some of you
Speaker 1: have already watched it and we need to talk about
Speaker 1: some of these episodes.
Speaker 2: All right, So Hacks Hecks, I have to start by
Speaker 2: saying that I'm glad it's gone.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love it. I love that show. But and
Speaker 1: we checked in on it early in this season for
Speaker 1: our podcast, but we said we weren't going to be
Speaker 1: doing like recaps of it, and I'm I'm happy with that.
Speaker 1: I went. I had to sort of binge to get
Speaker 1: through the rest of the season in time to watch
Speaker 1: the because I really let it fall off my viewing schedule.
Speaker 1: So I watched like six episodes in a row. I
Speaker 1: got like a shot of it. And it wasn't a
Speaker 1: bad season of television at all. It had some real highlights.
Speaker 1: It was actually, I think better than the poor season
Speaker 1: which almost ruined the show.
Speaker 2: I agree.
Speaker 1: So they got back into their vibe, they got back
Speaker 1: into their groove, and then it became okay, let's wrap
Speaker 1: this up. Like there was just a bunch of episodes
Speaker 1: where I was like, well, why are we still here?
Speaker 1: What are we doing? Like, what's going on here?
Speaker 2: Why do we have to write lines for these people?
Speaker 2: Sort of? I mean, like the daughter never came back?
Speaker 2: Why not?
Speaker 1: You know, she has her own show. She has two shows.
Speaker 2: Actually know it is like, you know, that's she's so.
Speaker 1: Funny too, and they're so funny together, I know, but
Speaker 1: she actually has two other shows. She's got It's always sunny,
Speaker 1: and she has that other like it's like a procedural
Speaker 1: on ABC or whatever.
Speaker 2: But she was hysteric with with her body.
Speaker 1: Yeah mma husband, And then the the Amazing Rays episode
Speaker 1: was really funny. But I don't I don't have a
Speaker 1: lot of critiques of the season. I just felt like,
Speaker 1: it's we need to wrap it up. It's time this
Speaker 1: we're just sort of spinning our wheels on a lot
Speaker 1: of this stuff. So let's talk about some of the
Speaker 1: arcs of the season. I one of the things I
Speaker 1: had a problem with the show since the previous season,
Speaker 1: and we talked about it last year, was that some
Speaker 1: of the plotting on this show, it's very lazy, and
Speaker 1: they don't it doesn't actually make a lot of sense
Speaker 1: if you know anything about the world. So, for instance,
Speaker 1: last season, the entire season was based on an idea
Speaker 1: of late night television that simply it does not reflect
Speaker 1: reality at all. Like, first off, no one's getting new shows. Secondly,
Speaker 1: no women are getting shows, and third no one in
Speaker 1: their seventies is getting a show. So she gets this
Speaker 1: show and I'm like, all right, you're already this doesn't
Speaker 1: reflect anything about the current world. And prior to that happening,
Speaker 1: the first three seasons of Hacks, it felt like we
Speaker 1: were looking at real people in the real world, and
Speaker 1: now it's like, okay, you're going off into fantasy. And
Speaker 1: it was the same thing with this season, which with
Speaker 1: the whole Madison Square Garden thing, I did not like
Speaker 1: that idea at all. As soon as it was announced,
Speaker 1: I was like, Oh, the whole fucking season is going
Speaker 1: to be about this show, about preparing for this show,
Speaker 1: And I even thought the whole I'm like, preparing for
Speaker 1: this show that is not going to happen.
Speaker 2: I did.
Speaker 1: I never thought that show was going to happen. So
Speaker 1: it felt like a lot of wheel spinning, like it was.
Speaker 1: It was nine episodes of preparing for this and it
Speaker 1: was a thing, and it was done in such a
Speaker 1: way like I'm pretty sure you can't trick someone into
Speaker 1: giving you a date for and I don't think you
Speaker 1: can trick people into buying tickets. And then later like
Speaker 1: the penultimate episode, I don't really think you can get
Speaker 1: thirty thousand people to show up in Central Portagram three
Speaker 1: days notice with no planning.
Speaker 2: Right, the whole license to get a license thing, She like, Oh,
Speaker 2: I'm taking my break now, I'm not going to listen
Speaker 2: to my favorite book cast. Oh that happens to be produced.
Speaker 1: I rolled my eyes at that so hard. That's the
Speaker 1: thing about lazy, crazy writing.
Speaker 2: That's what I don't like about these writers, the writers
Speaker 2: for the show, is that they they want to make
Speaker 2: certain points, they want to make about certain things in.
Speaker 1: So they just sort of rush past. So they just
Speaker 1: sprinkle them all over and they rush past explaining anything.
Speaker 1: So and yes, that scene with oh my god, you
Speaker 1: produced my favorite podcast and what Okay, you get a light,
Speaker 1: you get yeah, you get a permit?
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, permit.
Speaker 1: All of that is just and there's so much of
Speaker 1: that where it just doesn't describe a real world. It
Speaker 1: doesn't describe people who act in real ways, it doesn't
Speaker 1: describe the entertainment industry. None of this is realistic.
Speaker 2: I watched the show. I have watched the show because
Speaker 2: of those two main amazing women, Jeane Smart and Hannah
Speaker 2: ein Bend. I think they are phenomenal and those two
Speaker 2: characters were great. It was about two different women having
Speaker 2: to go through a lot of stuff together. Yeah, kind
Speaker 2: of they beginning to being forced be together and kind
Speaker 2: of developed developing a relationship. I think it's awesome. In fact,
Speaker 2: the episode the lesbian I call it the episode they
Speaker 2: make a point about that, well, you too are in
Speaker 2: a relationship.
Speaker 1: They are in a relationship. I had heard about that
Speaker 1: episode before I actually saw it, and some of the
Speaker 1: headlines made it sound like they actually were a couple,
Speaker 1: and I was like, oh God, no, that's not worth
Speaker 1: that's not They didn't do that today, And I would
Speaker 1: not have been furious if they had made those two
Speaker 1: a couple. At the end of the Actually, I would
Speaker 1: have found it dumb. I'm not opposed to queer storylines
Speaker 1: or people discovering their queerness late in life. It happens, but.
Speaker 2: There's nothing wrong. It was too easy.
Speaker 1: There's nothing wrong with depicting an unusual friendship, unusual and
Speaker 1: a deep friendship between two people, and you don't have
Speaker 1: to make it sexual or romantic. In fact, I think
Speaker 1: sometimes we don't have enough depictions of that in the culture.
Speaker 1: Deep deep, deep friendships and you know, cross generational friendships.
Speaker 1: You never see that sort of.
Speaker 2: Thing, especially you know, among women, because yeah, because most
Speaker 2: shows about women are there they're fighting, right.
Speaker 1: Well, there was quite a bit of that, and I
Speaker 1: didn't mind that, but I that's my main critique. Well
Speaker 1: we'll get into uh, the finale and all that, but
Speaker 1: my main critique is that the show creates scenarios that
Speaker 1: are so far removed from reality that it just kind
Speaker 1: of annoys me. And I'm like, why couldn't you have
Speaker 1: filled in some more details a little bit better?
Speaker 2: I mean, And it's just the things that they do,
Speaker 2: like the whole thing with a company with well yeah, okay.
Speaker 1: Yeah, God, I don't hate Jimmy and Kala the way
Speaker 1: you do, Yes, I do. I don't hate them the
Speaker 1: way you do. I feel that there's a place for
Speaker 1: them in the story. Okay, go ahead. But these last
Speaker 1: few episodes were everything that was going on with them
Speaker 1: was happening separate from from the main story, and I
Speaker 1: really I didn't care. And again, it was insanely unrealistic.
Speaker 1: The idea that he would be first off, the idea
Speaker 1: that he would even wind up in the mail room.
Speaker 1: I didn't find that believable at all. He is well connected,
Speaker 1: he does you know, he would not have put up
Speaker 1: with that, and you know, no, I just didn't agree
Speaker 1: with that at all. And then his whole oh well,
Speaker 1: I found some things and I opened some envelopes, and
Speaker 1: now you have to give me control of the company. Okay, fine,
Speaker 1: fuck you. You control the company.
Speaker 2: What I know? I know everything. The mother is happy
Speaker 2: now with a partner, you know, and you know, Marty
Speaker 2: comes back.
Speaker 1: It's just like and I actually wish they had gotten together.
Speaker 2: But my point is, everything is like, okay, we have
Speaker 2: to take care of all the characters.
Speaker 1: Now, yeah, yeah, all right, let's take a short break
Speaker 1: and then we'll get into the finale and all that.
Speaker 1: All right, we'll be right back. We're back, and we're
Speaker 1: gonna I do. I feel bad because so much of
Speaker 1: my commentary today about Hacks is negative. I did not
Speaker 1: like the finale. I didn't hate the finale, but I
Speaker 1: didn't love it.
Speaker 2: I thought it was a cheap shot as a mission
Speaker 2: to you. When you bring in y.
Speaker 1: As literally the last episode and assisted suicide literally the
Speaker 1: last episode, I'm like, this is not what this show
Speaker 1: was about. This is not what the vibe of the
Speaker 1: show was about, and it doesn't seem like it's lovely.
Speaker 1: In many ways, the scenes in Paris were actually lovely.
Speaker 1: Those two actresses are insanely good together, so it was
Speaker 1: somewhat enjoyable in that sense. But I kept thinking, like,
Speaker 1: this is so weird that they decided to end it
Speaker 1: this way, and I knew they weren't going to end
Speaker 1: with her dying, so again, it was more it was
Speaker 1: sort of like the same thing with the Madison Square Garden,
Speaker 1: where it's like, well, I know that's not going to happen,
Speaker 1: so we're just gonna waste a lot of time until
Speaker 1: we get to why it's not happening, And that's exactly
Speaker 1: how it played out. It's it was sweet don't get
Speaker 1: me wrong, I'm not that cold hearted. It was very sweet.
Speaker 1: It was very emotional having Barbara and Judy saying happy
Speaker 1: days are here again at the end of it was genius.
Speaker 1: Needle Drop could not have summed up the entire point
Speaker 1: of that show better than with that one song, because
Speaker 1: it's an old veteran and a young you know, young
Speaker 1: upstart and they're harmonizing together. So it was such a
Speaker 1: beautiful choice ended on a lovely note. But I just
Speaker 1: really hated the whole I'm going to Switzerland to die.
Speaker 2: What that's how you're doing this yet? Yeah? That that
Speaker 2: made no sense to me. And I think, like I said,
Speaker 2: it's just an easy way to you know, and add
Speaker 2: some emotions. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like this is the
Speaker 2: problem with shows like The East, that you have creators
Speaker 2: like that and then they they're also characters.
Speaker 1: In Down You, he's your enemy.
Speaker 2: I can't stand it. Well, the fact that he's naked
Speaker 2: in one of the scenes. This is a queer thing, right,
Speaker 2: There no need for him to be naked, but he
Speaker 2: has a great body. I'm the creator, so I'm gonna
Speaker 2: be naked, right so people can talk about that kind
Speaker 2: of stuff drives me crazy like her his friend. I mean,
Speaker 2: that's how he found Megan Stelter. He found her, loved her,
Speaker 2: and I was like, all right, you're gonna be a character.
Speaker 2: I hate that kind of approach because you're forcing things
Speaker 2: into it. The only thing that I find interesting and
Speaker 2: deep and amazing is those two women aside from them,
Speaker 2: and I know, and I know, you can't have a
Speaker 2: show with just two people.
Speaker 1: No, I agree, but they are the show and anytime
Speaker 1: it gets away from them, there are I don't hate
Speaker 1: any of the characters, but I do feel like I
Speaker 1: don't even hate Kayla. I just feel like most of
Speaker 1: the other characters they never knew what to do with.
Speaker 1: I've always talked about Marcus, that guy. They never hated
Speaker 1: the guy, but I was like, what is the point
Speaker 1: of this character? He's just morose In every scene, he
Speaker 1: always seems annoyed, and he never goes anywhere. Christopher McDonald
Speaker 1: is Marty like, what do you you?
Speaker 2: Never?
Speaker 1: They have insane fucking chemistry together. There should have been
Speaker 1: a whole on again, off again romance with those characters,
Speaker 1: but they seemed like completely against it for some reason.
Speaker 2: The lesbian I call it the lesbians.
Speaker 1: One and one more thing. The blackjack dealer, Oh right,
Speaker 1: fucking hilarious, and she's on We get to see her
Speaker 1: for maybe three minutes a season. This is what I mean.
Speaker 1: You never knew what to do and not to be mean.
Speaker 1: But they spent too much time on the housekeeper and
Speaker 1: the assistant. Yes, they're not that funny.
Speaker 2: They weren't that interesting. Nothing nothing to the other assistant.
Speaker 2: He's I mean, the actor's kind of funny. But those
Speaker 2: characters never ever went anywhere. I totally agree that that
Speaker 2: has always been the problem with the show, is that
Speaker 2: you had two amazing central characters and then you had
Speaker 2: all these colorful side characters that you didn't want to develop,
Speaker 2: so they just sort of they they're not really people,
Speaker 2: they're just there. And yeah, I agree. More Kiki more
Speaker 2: was that her name.
Speaker 1: Was hilarious, and she they almost never used her hilarious.
Speaker 1: I do want to end on a nice note. I
Speaker 1: do think, as much as I found it completely unrealistic,
Speaker 1: the Central Park ending was I wish the season had
Speaker 1: ended there there. It was triumphant, it was beautiful. I
Speaker 1: don't think it made a ton of sense, but it
Speaker 1: was mostly earned, like, okay, fine, but we're on a
Speaker 1: show with.
Speaker 2: A ton of things that don't make sense. That would
Speaker 2: have been a nice one.
Speaker 1: That would have been a nice one, And I just
Speaker 1: I really wish it had ended on that. It would
Speaker 1: have been such a perfect capper to this series, but
Speaker 1: instead it turned into this please don't die thing at
Speaker 1: the end.
Speaker 2: I think when it's about them, like the episode where
Speaker 2: they would Leslie uh Bess as a guest actress appearance guests,
Speaker 2: she she was hill. She was so funny. The whole
Speaker 2: thing about them pretending to be a couple. It was
Speaker 2: freaking hilarious.
Speaker 1: That was the best episode of the season because it
Speaker 1: was funny. And that is the other thing about this
Speaker 1: show is that for a show about two comedians, it
Speaker 1: wasn't as funny as it should have been. And that's
Speaker 1: a big complaint is in five seasons of the show,
Speaker 1: we almost never saw one of Devors sets like someone
Speaker 1: needed to write a killer set, a killer stand up set,
Speaker 1: and we should have seen her deliver at least one
Speaker 1: killer stand All we heard about was what a legend
Speaker 1: she was, but we never got to see it, and
Speaker 1: in fact, we had multiple scenes of her over the
Speaker 1: series bombing terribly, So you kind of worked against your purposes.
Speaker 1: You should have gotten some comics to write a killer
Speaker 1: type five and have her deliver it just so the
Speaker 1: audience could see it.
Speaker 2: I agree.
Speaker 1: I do love the show.
Speaker 2: Though I liked the idea of the show. I enjoyed
Speaker 2: the show for the most part. But every time, as
Speaker 2: you said, it felt like a different show when he
Speaker 2: when it switched to the other characters. So it's like,
Speaker 2: all right, like we're taking a break here and we're
Speaker 2: watching something else.
Speaker 1: Jimmy, We're like a total sitcom. God, it just happening
Speaker 1: completely apart from everybody else.
Speaker 2: So annoying because their lines were so like, oh my god,
Speaker 2: not real, you know, like I just want to make
Speaker 2: a pointee about something, so I'm giving you a line.
Speaker 2: It was just it didn't felt it didn't feel like
Speaker 2: organic at always.
Speaker 1: Now, Well that's that's a good way of putting it.
Speaker 1: It's so much of us just does not feel organic. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it all felt very contrived.
Speaker 2: Yes, I want to make a pointee about the industry,
Speaker 2: about I don't know how offices work and how pitching
Speaker 2: a show that's how it works. So I'm going to
Speaker 2: create this scene here and you know, if you if
Speaker 2: you understand the industry, like we're kind of doing a way.
Speaker 2: I mean, then you find that kind of funny and
Speaker 2: interesting and you see why they're doing it. But at
Speaker 2: the same time, I'm like why it makes no sense?
Speaker 1: Right, But listen, I salute those two ladies. Yes, I
Speaker 1: think they're both up for Emmys again. And as much
Speaker 1: as I think sometimes the Emmys get into a rut
Speaker 1: and reward the same show, I would not be upset
Speaker 1: if Jean Smart one another Emmy because I think she
Speaker 1: really killed me. I think she's won three or four
Speaker 1: every single season.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but yeah, it.
Speaker 1: Was lovely, but it was an imperfect show, and like
Speaker 1: a lot of shows in the modern era, it probably
Speaker 1: could have ended after three seasons.
Speaker 2: I agree. It started very strong and then he got
Speaker 2: lost and then he kind of like sort of like
Speaker 2: you know, got better, sort of better. And then I
Speaker 2: actually when I started watching this season, I watched like
Speaker 2: three episodes and I stoppedcause like, I can't take this anymore.
Speaker 2: And then I finished it, and I have to say
Speaker 2: I was kind of like annoyed that I had to
Speaker 2: watch it, but I actually enjoyed a lot of it.
Speaker 2: A lot of it. I thought Paris was awesome, because
Speaker 2: of course it's Paris and they're great. Yeah, a lot
Speaker 2: of things were great. And I actually got very emotion
Speaker 2: during the scene in Central Park, you know, like the
Speaker 2: whole thing when they're when she thanking everyone for that moment.
Speaker 2: Blah blah blah. I mean stuff like that. It's interesting,
Speaker 2: I agree, and it goes with a character, goes with
Speaker 2: a character's history. But everything else is just like, all right,
Speaker 2: you're just giving lines to your friends. Agreed.
Speaker 1: Do you want to take another break and we'll come
Speaker 1: back and talk about Widow's Bay or do you want
Speaker 1: to go right into it.
Speaker 2: Sure, let's take a break.
Speaker 1: All right, we're back and having said goodbye to Hacks,
Speaker 1: we need to say hello to Widow's Bay.
Speaker 2: Oh god, yes.
Speaker 1: On Apple TV Plus. You know I was hearing buzz
Speaker 1: about this show about a month before it dropped. We
Speaker 1: I don't even ask for screeners anymore. I just figured
Speaker 1: I'll talk about this show after it airs. It's not
Speaker 1: worth it trying to get screeners.
Speaker 2: No, because the thing is that there are so many
Speaker 2: shows coming out all the time that it's hard to
Speaker 2: keep up with him. I have to say someone I
Speaker 2: can't remember one of our readers on Instagram maybe recommended
Speaker 2: the show, So I want to thank you because I
Speaker 2: was like, oh, maybe I should give it a shot. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and I and I watched it and I loved it,
Speaker 2: absolutely loved it.
Speaker 1: I had heard about it and and some critics were like,
Speaker 1: this is the best new show of the year, and
Speaker 1: I was like, all right, And I did watch the
Speaker 1: first episode the week it came out, and I wasn't.
Speaker 1: It didn't grab me, mainly because the first episode is
Speaker 1: really a wash in the sort of shit's Creak twin
Speaker 1: Peaks vibe of like a year in a small town
Speaker 1: and everyone's very colorful and weird and dysfunctional and it
Speaker 1: I just didn't appeal to me in that first episode.
Speaker 1: It just did not appeal to me because he is
Speaker 1: so let's talk about this.
Speaker 2: Widow's Bay is.
Speaker 1: A comic horror series.
Speaker 2: It is.
Speaker 1: Set on a on an island in the Wing, England
Speaker 1: that has a host of curses upon it and everything
Speaker 1: like that. But it is a comic series and the
Speaker 1: central character is the mayor played by Matthew Reese, and
Speaker 1: it's all about his like his foibles and and and
Speaker 1: Shenanigan says he tries to run this town and he
Speaker 1: tries to get tourists to come to the turn it
Speaker 1: into His whole goal is to turn it into the
Speaker 1: next Martha's Vineyard, and he is thwarted by these locals
Speaker 1: who are all, you know, very colorful, very strange, and
Speaker 1: and and if if that was the only thing the
Speaker 1: show was, I would have tapped out after one episode.
Speaker 1: But I have to say and there's a part of
Speaker 1: me that's almost reluctant to say this, because when someone
Speaker 1: says this to me, I almost always tap out, Which
Speaker 1: is it gets so much better after you if you
Speaker 1: stick with it.
Speaker 2: It does. It does.
Speaker 1: But this is a thing that people always say in
Speaker 1: the streaming era, and what it usually means is you
Speaker 1: have to sit through six hours before there's some sort
Speaker 1: of payoff, And I'm telling you now that's not the case.
Speaker 2: Right or you force yourself into liking something which is
Speaker 2: not the case. I love it from the beginning because
Speaker 2: I watched so many this Cannaving shows about you know,
Speaker 2: like dark islands and small towns and you know, people
Speaker 2: in mar so I was. I loved it right from
Speaker 2: the air. And Matthew, my god, Matthew Rees is just incredible.
Speaker 1: It's a hell of a comedic performance. I did not
Speaker 1: know he had it into him to be that much
Speaker 1: of a clown expression. Yeah, I mean he's he's really giving,
Speaker 1: like Don Knuts in a horror film kind of thing.
Speaker 1: Just I didn't know he was like that. I didn't
Speaker 1: know he could be like that on camera. I think
Speaker 1: I tend to see him as someone who's a little
Speaker 1: more serious all the time. It also stars Stephen Root,
Speaker 1: who is killing it.
Speaker 2: And then it's.
Speaker 1: Got like these great character actresses like Dale Dicky and
Speaker 1: Kay Callen and Katie o Flynn who plays Patricia.
Speaker 2: She's just funny.
Speaker 1: Yeah, she's really really funny. Oh and Jeff Hiller, but
Speaker 1: he only has a small part. Jeff Hiller who won
Speaker 1: the Emmy last year for what is it Somebody Somewhere?
Speaker 2: So oh yeah, right, yeah.
Speaker 1: So you know, there's like hauntings, and there's curses, and
Speaker 1: there's witches and there's all this other stuff and I
Speaker 1: have to say when it wants oh, and there's killer clowns.
Speaker 1: That's the thing. It's sort of it pays homage to
Speaker 1: so many things. One of the heaviest, heaviest influences on it,
Speaker 1: and they're not shy about it. Is Jaws. You there's
Speaker 1: all these allusions to Jaws, like the Mayor and and
Speaker 1: you know, opening up the beaches and there's a scene
Speaker 1: on a boat in the latest episode very much evokes Jaws.
Speaker 1: But when it wants to be scary, it is legitimately scary.
Speaker 1: The killer clown scene, I actually had a pause it.
Speaker 1: I was like, Okay, this is a little too intense,
Speaker 1: but I will say, if you're not into horror, it's
Speaker 1: not it's not going to give you nightmares, and it's
Speaker 1: not gory. It's not that kind of horror.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm here to tell you that because I can't
Speaker 2: stand it's not any of that.
Speaker 1: And if you don't even have jump scaries, it's more
Speaker 1: like high high tension. And it plays on what you
Speaker 1: know about the stories that they're showing you because there's
Speaker 1: so many illusions. Like I said, there's a killer clown,
Speaker 1: they they dig up someone who's not dead, that sort
Speaker 1: of thing.
Speaker 2: The whole hotel thing, very you know, like all that
Speaker 2: kind of pale.
Speaker 1: I don't want to get into too right.
Speaker 2: But pay much to all these great movies.
Speaker 1: It's just clever and funny. And by the fourth episode
Speaker 1: I was hooked and Like I said, I was mildly
Speaker 1: interested up to that. I really didn't like the first
Speaker 1: second and third I kind of okay, that's interesting, and
Speaker 1: then fourth episode I was like, oh, okay, this is
Speaker 1: creative as hell.
Speaker 2: It is extremely creative. The writing is genius.
Speaker 1: It's just so smart, yes, and well reserved. I don't
Speaker 1: know if it's going to be if they're going to
Speaker 1: wrap it up brilliantly. I do think the last two
Speaker 1: episodes are showing an intelligence and maturity in the writing
Speaker 1: that I wasn't quite getting in the first couple of episodes.
Speaker 1: I do want to get into spoilery stuff, so I
Speaker 1: think from here on out, you know, right, I just
Speaker 1: want to mention to create the creatible.
Speaker 2: Yes, she is really really good. The lines are hysterical,
Speaker 2: delivered in such a brilliant way by Matthew specifically yea, yeah, yeah, God,
Speaker 2: it's just funny, funny, funny, funny.
Speaker 1: Funny, and then when it wants to be scary, it's
Speaker 1: it's legitimately scary. But from this point on are going
Speaker 1: to start doing a few spoilers. I mean, there weren't
Speaker 1: that many twists and turns, and you know, but whatever,
Speaker 1: if you if you haven't seen the show yet. Take
Speaker 1: care of yourself, love you mean it, Bye bye, and
Speaker 1: the rest of us are going to keep talking. Okay,
Speaker 1: So Patricia's Sunset Cocktails party was when the show went
Speaker 1: completely like, oh no, this is actually really really smart
Speaker 1: filmmaking and smart writing because it was hilarious. It was
Speaker 1: really really funny, and then it took a sharp turn
Speaker 1: and you were like, oh no, this is horrifying. This
Speaker 1: is kind of scary. Like when you saw all the
Speaker 1: faces in the mirror, you know what I'm.
Speaker 2: Talking about, looking at me kind of I'm just looking
Speaker 2: at you because you love me, Yes, I love me
Speaker 2: so much, and.
Speaker 1: The antlers on her head and everything. I just just
Speaker 1: really really well done.
Speaker 2: The hotel scene was incredible, like the whole conversation. Yes,
Speaker 2: and then he goes into basement. I mean that was scary.
Speaker 1: It was scary, is That's what I mean? That was
Speaker 1: the one I had a pause. I was like, all right,
Speaker 1: that's a little that's a little freaky. When the first
Speaker 1: time he went down in the basement and he saw
Speaker 1: the crawl space that he was supposed to go into,
Speaker 1: and he was like, not a chance. And I was like,
Speaker 1: I love when people in horror stories act like people
Speaker 1: I know, I know, and that is one of the
Speaker 1: great things about him in this is that he acts
Speaker 1: like a real person in this story. Uh, what else
Speaker 1: did I want to talk about? I want to talk
Speaker 1: about Betty Gilpin.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well we need to explain why.
Speaker 1: And well, if you're listening, you've probably seen because it's
Speaker 1: a fantastic explanation of the whole curse, the whole thing
Speaker 1: going on on the Acay. So Betty Gelpin comes in
Speaker 1: in the latest episode and the entire or actually not
Speaker 1: the latest the but the penultimate latest episode, and they
Speaker 1: do a total shift and they go back a flashback
Speaker 1: to seventeen oh two and she arrives in this village
Speaker 1: and she's betrothed to the basically the sheriff or mayor
Speaker 1: of the village is played by Hamish Link later it's Derek,
Speaker 1: and they're both so good. The thing about Betty Gilben
Speaker 1: is you can hand her a character like that who
Speaker 1: doesn't have a lot of background to her, doesn't have
Speaker 1: a lot of story to her, and it's a one off.
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure we're not going to see that character again. No,
Speaker 1: I don't, And yet she imbus that character was so
Speaker 1: alive and there was so much going on with her
Speaker 1: in that forty minutes that she was on screen. Because
Speaker 1: that's what you do. If you have a character like that,
Speaker 1: you handed to an actress like Betty Gilben because she's
Speaker 1: going to make that character come alive and become indelible.
Speaker 1: She is like one of the most memorable characters on
Speaker 1: the show right and she probably won't come back.
Speaker 2: She is phenomenal. I'll watch anything, yeah, anything with Betty.
Speaker 2: She is just incredible. And I read an interview with
Speaker 2: her and she joked, she said, you know, I'd love
Speaker 2: over the top acting in a bonnet. Yea, she said,
Speaker 2: give me that now you know. You know I'm a
Speaker 2: sucker for that. So anyway, she she loves that kind
Speaker 2: of you know, over the top acting, and she does
Speaker 2: such a great job.
Speaker 1: And I want to a note that, like, for instance,
Speaker 1: on her episode, which was directed by Ty West, the
Speaker 1: horror filmmaker, the cinematography on that episode was stunning, all
Speaker 1: that candle light and everything, all the nighttime scenes just
Speaker 1: absolutely stunning. And apparently they shot it at a a
Speaker 1: in a cabin that was owned by a condemned witch
Speaker 1: or something.
Speaker 2: Her name is Rebecca Nurse House.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know Rebca Nurse.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, she was. She went through the whole Salem trial. Yeah,
Speaker 2: she was accused of witchcraft. Yeah, back in sixteen ninety something. Anyway,
Speaker 2: So yeah, they shot in her.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because Hamton later said it was like he didn't
Speaker 1: even realize it was on his bucket list to be
Speaker 1: buried in the grounds of a witch's house and dug
Speaker 1: up and you know.
Speaker 2: Barently they shot the whole thing and les separate. Yeah, yes,
Speaker 2: left that for the last part, and so the whole
Speaker 2: set was like kind of empty, right, Yeah.
Speaker 1: It was just a yeah, it was fascinating. And then
Speaker 1: then they the episode after that is set in the
Speaker 1: present day. But ha much Link later has to continue
Speaker 1: playing this character.
Speaker 2: Uh huh.
Speaker 1: And what I found out later was that those, as
Speaker 1: you said, they were shot in reverse. He played the
Speaker 1: old version of the character first. In fact, he didn't
Speaker 1: even know I believe he didn't even know who was
Speaker 1: going to play his wife, like Betty Gilpin hadn't even
Speaker 1: been cast, right, And then they had to go back
Speaker 1: and shoot, and he said that he actually modulated his
Speaker 1: voice so that it sounded like a younger version of
Speaker 1: the but It's just so strange to me that those
Speaker 1: were shot out of sequence because.
Speaker 2: That episode was so fucking funny, the whole part on
Speaker 2: the boat.
Speaker 1: The part on the boat. Yes, although I wanted to
Speaker 1: kill Matthew Reese because come on, how big of an
Speaker 1: idiot are you?
Speaker 2: Well, he is an idiot.
Speaker 1: He is an idiot.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but that was so funny when he's like.
Speaker 1: Everything about that scene was really really funny. And I
Speaker 1: actually thought Stephen Or was going to die that episode too.
Speaker 1: I really thought he was going to die. I still
Speaker 1: think he's going to die because he gave an episode,
Speaker 1: he gave an interview and they talked about a second season,
Speaker 1: and he gave answers that I was like, sounds like
Speaker 1: you don't make it out alive through this season. He's
Speaker 1: great in it, And no, what is not great in it?
Speaker 2: Was that the last episode?
Speaker 1: No, the last of the season. Yeah, no, no, I
Speaker 1: think there's three more or two more, I can't remember,
Speaker 1: but we're here to tell you to watch it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's really really good. It's it's smart.
Speaker 2: It's smart.
Speaker 1: Yes, I mean we we really like smart stuff.
Speaker 2: I do witty, Yeah, that be intellectual, but but well
Speaker 2: observed to be intelligent, right right, right, that's it's me.
Speaker 2: Even when it's supposed to be a silly humor, it
Speaker 2: has to be delivered in a witty, intelligent way.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think, just to bring this back to our
Speaker 1: previous conversation, as much as I love Hacks, the last
Speaker 1: several seasons of the show, I just don't think it
Speaker 1: was smart. I don't think it was very smart writing.
Speaker 1: It was it all rested on those two actresses, who
Speaker 1: are amazing.
Speaker 2: But with.
Speaker 1: Widow's Bay as good as Matthew Reesays, as good as
Speaker 1: Stephen Rude is, it doesn't all rest on those actors.
Speaker 1: The writing is actually smart, well.
Speaker 2: Observed, awesome. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I cannot find a single, you know, weak point or
Speaker 1: there's never a point where I'm taken out of the story.
Speaker 1: And like what, I hate the Sun, I hate the teenagers.
Speaker 1: I can't stand him, but I mean he does.
Speaker 2: He's supposed to be annoying.
Speaker 1: He's supposed to be annoying, and he does have reason to
Speaker 1: be mad at his dad. But that's Psycho girl. Who
Speaker 1: was going does I kept waiting for, like what is
Speaker 1: she some sort of I know, curse or something because
Speaker 1: she was acting so strange.
Speaker 2: I know, I was so mad at her, But I
Speaker 2: love the secretary at the office, the old lady.
Speaker 1: The old lady. Yeah, I can't read her own hand.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: It's just a lot of colorful characters. And then it's
Speaker 1: in the middle of a Stephen King novel. Basically, that's
Speaker 1: highly recommend highly recommend it. Yes, so Widow's Bay on
Speaker 1: Apple TV can't recommend it enough. And I believe we
Speaker 1: have exhausted our topics for the way, so we'll be
Speaker 1: back next week. We do have a new set of movies,
Speaker 1: movies for the Bitter Movie Club. We're taking this week off,
Speaker 1: but we have a whole set of movies for June.
Speaker 1: The first one we'll be doing next week is Atonement
Speaker 1: from two thousand and seven starring Kieran Nightly, So go
Speaker 1: ahead and watch that. I believe it's on both Netflix
Speaker 1: and HBO Max.
Speaker 2: Great movie.
Speaker 1: You should be able to catch it if you if
Speaker 1: you are so inclined, And we'll be back with whatever
Speaker 1: else you know across our eyes across our desk next week.
Speaker 1: Till then, take care of yourself, love you mean it.
Speaker 2: Bye bye bye.