Speaker 1: What's going on. Thank you so much for listening to
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to your smartphone or tablet. And again, thank you so
much for your support. Last hour we talked to Joe Bruno. Well,
in the last half hour of the show, we talked
to Joe Bruno from WSOCTV. And I want to go
a little bit more in depth on one aspect of
this story. Okay, that's a lie. I'm probably going to
go in depth on more of it, but I want
to start off with this one aspect of this story
about the Charlotte Mecklaburg police chief Johnny Jennings is reportedly
contemplating suing the city for half a million dollars, claiming
that a city councilman now off the council because he's
working for the Trump administration. Tark Bakari. This is the
councilman's name, that tarc Bakari maligned him to such a
degree that his reputation was damaged, and he has apparently
put that price tag at half a million dollars. I
don't know how he comes up with that number. I
don't know what reputational harm he actually did suffer. I
had completely forgotten about the whole brew haha over the
police vests because in the grand scheme of things, it
really like it didn't matter, unless, of course, somebody had
their feelings hurt because they lost on the issue, which
Jennings did, because he did eventually cave and say, fine,
I will let if officers want to get these vests,
they will be permitted to get them. But he's not
going to force everybody to wear the vest. And the
only reason was aesthetics. That was it you're going to
look too militarized, which is something that the leftists say.
It's just a vest. You could put your stuff in it,
you wear it on the outside, and you put your
flashlight in it, your handcuffs and your notepad, you your smartphone,
whatever you can, so it's all it's easily accessible. And
these cops were asking for this vest and they were
being told no, and so Tark Bacary says, well, they
should be able to get these vests, and Chief Jennings
is like no, and in text messages, Councilman Bacary pleads
with him, urging him please let these guys have these vests.
And if not, like, I'm going to launch a campaign
for this and it's going to get you know, it's
going to get some traction and it's not going to
be good for you. And the Yeah, the report here,
let me start with WFAE. They reported that the council
was considering giving Jennings up to three hundred thousand dollars
following text messages that then Councilman tarc Bookari sent him
in twenty twenty four when the council member was at
odds with the Chief over the type of bulletproof vests
that should be issued to CMPD officers. WFAE published those
text messages in November. In May, Bakari told Jennings that quote,
whatever happens from this point forward is not personal, and
Jennings responded, as long as you stick to that, we
are fine. Just know that I don't plan on sitting
on my hands either. Okay, So, like they're telling each other.
Game on, These cops need to have these vests, and
Jennings is saying, no, they don't. And Bakari, as a
member of council, but albeit one of only two Republicans
so a distinct minority on council, doesn't really have any
power to force CMPD to do this unless he can
convince a majority of the city Council to do it,
which he can't. He did not have the pull to
get all of those Democrats on council to vote with
him on this over their police chief. They just wouldn't
do it. So what has he left with? A public
pressure campaign? And so he's telling Jennings, this is what
I'm going to do, and Jennings says, that's fine. As
long as you don't make it personal. That's fine. But
I'm not going to be holding back either, So game on, okay.
So Bookari criticizes Jennings in an interview on WC and
CTV about the vests. A couple of weeks later, in July,
he also texted Jennings and told him he made a
terrible error in judgment. My friend, I hate what comes next.
So this is would I have sent this message? No,
I would actually not be sending any messages. This is
not how I operate. I go on the radio, I
would not I would not be telling you like, oh
what's coming next? Oh you should have done this? Oh
like I'm not smack talking in text messages to you.
I will lay out my case on the air or
to your face. The former council member texted Jennings to
tell him he planned on hammering Jennings. It's a quote
in the press and political circles. Andy said he would
not stop, and it will cripple your legacy. You've worked
so hard for it. This has Hunter Biden vibes. I'm sorry,
but it does. Remember the Hunter Biden text message where
he was trying to get the Chinese guy to pay off,
and he's like, you know, you will learn no one
holds a grudge like a Biden or whatever it was.
Bacari texted Jennings, you have thirty six hours to call
it all off by compromising in some small way. Otherwise
it's in God's hands. So I don't know what that's about.
I don't know what the calling it all off? What
is all? I don't know what is he? What is
Bakari referring to to call what all off is Jennings
whipping up votes against Bakari? Is this about a complaint,
an ethics complaint that the NAACP filed against Bakari over this?
So where my mind goes, If I'm just connecting some
dots right in a Charlie Day kind of way, I'm
thinking Jennings and the NAACP and maybe some people over
at CMPD. Are they coordinating with the NAACP to file
the ethics complaint in order to get Bookari to stand down?
When Jennings says, I'm not sitting on my hands either,
does he call the NAACP. Does he text with Reverend
curin mac We'll work with you on some language for
the ethics complaint. So now we can get an ethics
complaint against Bokary and we can bring some pressure on him.
He may be able to bring a pressure campaign in
the media against me, but I can go after him
on an ethics violation. Is that what happened? I don't know.
I would be very clear. I am simply spitball in
here because there are a lot of there are a
lot of pieces of information that are not available. We
have a lot of gaps in our knowledge. All I
can go by is what's in the in the the
reports I have in front of me. Jennings never responded
to that text. He did eventually compromise, which is what
Bakari was asking for in that text message, to compromise
in some small way, and the compromise was that the
city wasn't paying for the vest. Bakari then raised the
money privately, and then Jennings said, fine, if people requested
they can, they can get one. And that's how it ended.
But meanwhile, behind the scenes, people's feelings got hurt. That's
what this looks like, because I would need to see
some actual damages to reputation that Jennings suffered because of that,
that public disagreement. And honestly, in a city and in
a county as Democrat as we are, why would Tark
Bakari's comments cause you enough reputational damage to warrant half
a million dollars. You didn't lose your job, right, I
don't think he got denied any raises or anything. There
wasn't it. There were no penalties here. What were the damages?
To me? That seems a pretty important piece of it.
And I don't like the idea that you come in
and you say, I'm considering suing, so maybe you should
just pay me now. No, maybe you should draw up
the freaking complaints, sir. Maybe that's the first step. Put
your stuff in writing, let's hear exactly what it is
you've got to say, and then the city would be
in a position, with the advice of a lawyer, to say,
this is a pretty good argument that he's making. Let's
avoid litigation, and then you settle. You don't settle before
you even file a lawsuit. You don't settle before you
even lay out the allegations and put it on paper
so everybody can understand what the evidence is. You have
to give people some sort of a summary, make the allegations.
They do not have to be public. You can do
it all in closed session. It's an a turning client privilege.
I'm fine with that, but you got to put this down.
Simply threatening a lawsuit and then getting paid out. That
looks shady. It looks really really shady to me. Again,
I don't have all the information because you guys control
all the information and you're keeping it from me so
and everybody else. So all I can tell you is
what it looks like from the outside. All right, So
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Charlie Meckelburg Police chief Johnny Jennings last week announced that
he is considering suing the city. Sources said he felt
unfairly targeted and suffered reputational damage over the dispute with
former city council in Tark Bakari and the purchasing of
the new vests for law enforcement for police officers. I
simply ask, what is the evidence that reputational damage was
actually suffered? Because if it's just your feeling, that's not
worth half a million dollars. Let's go over to the
phones and chat with Spencer. Hey, Spencer, how are you?
Speaker 2: How are you doing? Pete good?
Speaker 1: What's up?
Speaker 2: I thought there was another issue in this whole thing.
The four officers that got killed in that shootout where
the guy was in the upstairs window shooting the rifle.
All of those officers were work and vests that would
protect against pistol rounds and they could be worn under
your uniform. But the vest that protects against rifle rounds
was so heavy and had plates in it. They had
to be worn on the outside. And that's why Jennings
didn't want them to wear it, because it would make
their uniforms look like they were you know, militaristic. But
I would suggest that had the pistol round protection vest
been kind of bulky and had to be worn on
the outside, that Jennings would not let them wear the
original vest.
Speaker 1: Any vest at all. Yeah, I don't know if the Yeah,
I'm not sure. I do seem to recall a couple
of things. Well, Number one, I do seem to recall
your description there about the rifle pistol round vest differences.
Number two, though I recall correctly the officers that were
killed were Marshall's office. Uh, they weren't CMPD if I
remember correctly.
Speaker 2: But still it goes that, right, the difference in the
best made him look militaristic.
Speaker 1: Right and so right, So that was the third thing.
And then is that either way the the It always
comes back to the aesthetics of the vest being the issue.
Speaker 2: And yeah, and that's why I said. That's why I said,
if the pistol pistol around best was bulky like that
and had to be worn on the outside, I don't
think Jennings would have let him wear those.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he might not have. Yeah, for all I know,
he may not have. I don't know, or maybe said no,
there's some other thing to wear, and that's got even
less protection as long as it goes under the uniform.
It's a it's a good question. I don't know the
answer now. And here's another thing, on the reputational harm
that he allegedly suffered. You know, I'm not aware of
any political harm that he suffer in Charlotte Mecklenberg. But
maybe there's something going on inside of the police department ranks, right,
the rank and file may have a different opinion of
him now because of this fight. That's possible too. But
is that Bakari's fault or is that jennings fault for
taking the position he took based on purely aesthetics?
Speaker 2: That's right, Yeah, Spencer.
Speaker 1: I appreciate the call about he got to hear from you,
all right, So yeah, I try to think through the
different angles on stories and issues, and so if I'm
like trying to scratch my head and think, okay, what
damage could he have suffered? I really cannot imagine local
Democrat politicians taking a dim view of Chief Johnny Jennings
over this issue in a fight with Tark Bakari that
probably ninety nine some of the Democrat politicians in our
area don't like. They don't like Bakari. So if anything,
it feels like they would be happy that you're pushing
back on Bookari because they don't like him. Now maybe
at the state level, maybe different for politicians up there.
But so that's, you know, one part of it.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 1: The other part of it is the public. What's the
public perception of him? I don't know how he would
know if he suffered reputational harm among the public. Did
they put out some polling or something on this issue,
or maybe it could be with his own officers, because
his officers are asking for these vests that are better
for them. I don't know if they provide more protection.
I don't believe it did, but maybe they do. And
if he's saying no, I could easily see some law
enforcement officers CMPD officers, you know, getting a little, hmmm,
taking some umbrage. Let's say they may take some umbrage
that their boss will not allow them to have a
better vest, even if it means that they could survive
a shootout. Because the boss is more interested in looks
right than officer protection. I could see that being a
problem for him. Yeah, definitely, But again, I have no
evidence of that because there hasn't been any evidence laid
out for us. But we do have evidence that there
was communication going on between CMPD and the local NAACP
about filing an ethics complaint against Bakari. Why would the
NAACP ask CMPD to file an ethics complaint before she
files the ethics complaint? What would you need from CMPD
to do that unless you're doing it for them? Is
that possible? That could be possible. See, I'm just I'm
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and make memories that'll last a lifetime. Thank you, Jason,
he sent me a tweet. Joshua Eyer. He was CMPD
so one of the four agents law enforcement officers that
were murdered while serving the warrant in East Charlotte last
year last April twenty ninth, was CMPD officer. I guess
two were Marshall's office, and then there was another one
from the state that was there serving the warrant. If
five recall correctly. At Patriot Girl says Chief Jennings, attempt
to extort thousands from the taxpayers is outrageous. He should
resign and discrebs immediately. As a taxpayer of Mecklenberg County,
I am asking for his resignation. Could it be an
effort to cost Bokari his position in the Trump administration?
That maybe I don't know. Another message I got says
maybe the purpose of the potential shakedown is about torpedoing
Missus Bokhari from getting appointed to the seat right because
Tark Bukari's wife is interested in filling the remainder of
his unexpired term. And Russ says throughout this stage, Chief
Jennings seems to be conflating or seemed to be conflating
the protective effects of the under the shirt pistol vests
and the outer rifle protective gear. He was making it
sound like there was no difference other than the optics.
The councilmen and officers were saying they wanted more protection
and better access to gear. Also, I recall early reports
from that shooting event where it was speculated that had
the officers had the exterior vests with a drag loop.
It might have made it easier to get the downed
officers out of the line of fire and render aid sooner.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 1: So a strap that you that, like, if I get shot,
I'm wearing the vest. I get shot, somebody can grab
that strap and drag me away more easily. It's part
of the vest. Yeah. See, this is what I mean.
Like the reputational damage that Jennings is alleging, I'm unclear
on because people don't even even I don't remember all
of the details of that argument. And like I did
not have any lower opinion of the police chief after that,
after that debate, unchallenged. Ideas are easy to hold me
disagreeing with somebody and trying to get them to change
their mind and do a policy I think is better
that is not reputational damage to you. Let me go
over and talk to Ed. Hello, Ed, welcome to the
show boy.
Speaker 3: You can't be with this guy just said it's unbelievable.
But this guy, this chief of this chief of police,
ought to resign. You know, this is nothing but a
bunch of collusions. He's supposed to be fighting crime. Crime
is rampant in this city, whether they tell you not, whatever.
It has murders all over the place here. How many
people got murdered on his watch? So why wouldn't you
give the policeman the protection to go do their job.
It's pretty simple. You can't go win the war with a.
Speaker 1: Knife, right, Well, I think it was behind the door. Yeah.
His argument I think at the time was that the
that there was no protection difference. I don't know if
that's true, and I don't recall these specific arguments because
this was, you know, two years ago, whenever it was
when the fight was happening.
Speaker 3: But why is the NAACP getting involved in this stuff
and colluding? They're all doing backdoor stuff here and this
doesn't look good for the council. No, anybody that votes
to give this guy any money, there should be a
caveat there. I give you the money, you need to resign,
You need to go. Let's get somebody in here that
can crime fight. I mean, the people here in this
city are pissed off. We've had enough of this stuff.
You know, anytime you see somebody get.
Speaker 2: Murdered, will you hear about it?
Speaker 3: It breaks your damn heart because there are a wholeless
of people behind it, family members that have to suffer
through all this stuff.
Speaker 2: It shouldn't be. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Well, and the first responders, law enforcement, everybody. Yeah yeah,
it's traumatic for a lot a lot of people. It
changes people's lives permanently.
Speaker 3: And every time, every time there's a murder in this city,
they should wake up the councilmen in that area or
the council person in the area and have to go
and let them see exactly what these first responders have
to see. Then they're going to change their tone. The
only time they go to change their tomb about crime
fighting is if they have to go see it firsthand,
because let me tell you something, it isn't a pleasant scene.
Speaker 1: Yea, yeah, Ed, I appreciate the call. Yeah, yes, sir,
thank you. Ed raises the question, why is the NAACP
involved in this? What is the nature of this relationship? So,
according to WSOCTV, two top aids to the police chief
advised what should be in a complaint against former Charlotte
City councilman Tarkboocary. Channel nine. WSOC obtained emails sent from
the personal email accounts of Major Brad Kotch, the assistant
to the chief, and Sandy Vastola, the public Affairs Division
Bureau Commander. Channel nine first reported the ethics complaints existence
on Friday. The complaint was filed in January by the
NAACP President, Reverend Krinn mac and it was dismissed by
interim City Attorney Anthony Fox a short time later. By
the way, the city council also just just let go
their attorney, the city attorney. Is that related to all
of this? I don't know all of that stuff happens
in closed session. Vestola sent Major kochin email on August
twenty seventh, and again this is from the Public Affairs
Division Bureau Commander to Major Brad Kotch, who is Jennings
right hand man. Quote, Hey, I would have her focus
on Tark and the Fraternal Order of Police in their
official capacities taking this on as a crusade against the
chief with personal and major threats to force him to retire,
slash get fired, and forgetting that the operational decison visions
of this department rest with the Chief of Police, not
bullies who try to bully him into making decisions that
may not be in accordance with his desires, Threats against
his home by disclosing where he lives, stating publicly that
he forced officers to check his home. Bacari tried to
claim that he was doing this as a citizen and
not in his official capacity. He has been in his
official capacity the entire time. He has been threatening the
chief the entire time. Right because Bacari would say things
like from the dais at the council meetings, like I'm
going to take off my city councilman hat and I'm
just going to say this as a private citizen, which
I don't know if you. I don't know how that
stands up in court. I really do not know. I'm
not saying that that's protective or not.
Speaker 2: So.
Speaker 1: Major Koch takes this email from Sandy Vastola and forwards
it to the NAACP leader the next day, and lo
and behold, this lane language turns up in her complaint.
The ethics complaint includes sentences that were similar and at
times identical, to the email that was forwarded to Reverend mec.
Reached by phone, Veastola said that she had quote no
involvement with crafting the complaint. Well, now I don't think
that's actually true, is it? Because your email says I
would have her focus on tark Bacari and the FOP
in their official capacities. So you knew that the complaint
was being drafted up. Your boss, I assume, asked you
what she should put in there, or how she should
frame it, and what's the best way to approach it
or whatever, and you offered advice to that. So I
would say that is involvement. Yeah, that's involvement in the
crafting of a complaint. If I were to, I don't know,
do an analogy to a crime. For example, if somebody
says to you, hey, I'm fixing to rob a store.
How what's the best way to go about doing that,
and you then give them some advice on how to
do that, and then they go do it. I'm pretty
sure that the cops might show up at your door
and say, hey, you were involved in the commission of
this crime. Right, that's involvement. She said she did speak
with Reverend mac about concerns that Mac had about Bokari.
She described her role as simply answering questions and maybe
that's all it was. I don't know. A spokesperson for
the City of Charlotte said neither Vestola nor Kotch violated
city policy. All right, if you're listening to this show,
you know I try to keep up with all sorts
of current events, and I know you do too, And
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Why well, because it's how you detect media bias, which
is why I've been so impressed with ground News. It's
an app and it's a website and it combines news
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Your subscription then not only helps my podcast, but it
also supports ground News as they make the media landscape
more transparent. Greg emails, why don't they just settle this
the old fashioned way, a duel, each wearing the vest
of their choice. John says, don't forget ed Driggs is
still a Republican on the city council. Yeah, that's true,
Jay says, Ja not wanting to have a militarized look.
Is bs CMPD switched to uniforms that look like BDUs
or military uniforms like six to ten years ago. I
do wonder why they wear such dark uniforms in this heat.
Always feel bad for them. So back to the WSOC
story wsoctv dot com reporting by Joe Bruno that we
spoke with We spoke with the last hour.
Speaker 3: So.
Speaker 1: A spokesperson for the City of Charlotte said that neither
Vestola nor Kotch violated city policy. City personnel rules and
regulations recognizes each employee's constitutional right to join or affiliate
with political organizations, attend political meetings, and advocate and support
political principles and policies. State law recognized that every employee
has the constitutional right to engage in free speech and associations.
Spokesperson Jason Jason Schneider City personnel rules prohibit city employees
from quote engaging in any political activity while on duty,
and may not use any supplies or equipment owned by
the city for any other political purposes. Right, So them
using their personal email would not have violated any of this,
any of the city personnel rules. But then that also
makes me question why are they using the emails of
the private emails but four avoiding the rules? Right? So
they know that this is they know they are engaging
in some kind of a political activity. It's protected. I'm
not saying they should be fired, to be clear about that, like,
I'm not calling for them. As far as I know,
they haven't done anything that would warrant them getting fired.
But you cannot say that you were not involved in
the complaint. You knew that the NAACP leader wanted to
fire a complaint against tark Bookary and when she asked
you too, or maybe she asked Jennings and then Jennings
kicked it over to you, or or maybe he had
no idea. I don't know. We need a We need
a TikTok, not the not the social media app. We
need a we need a chronology.
Speaker 2: What all?
Speaker 1: What was the what was the chronological order where all
these comms were going on? Who reached out to whom right,
We have some bit of you know, time stamps here
from the email exchange. But there was obvious involvement with
two people inside CMPD helping the NAACP draft a complaint
against tark Bookari sitting city councilmen. This was before he
got the appointment up to the Trump administration. Was this retribution?
Was this using the nuble a CP like, did CMPD
try to use the end of ACP in order to
hurt Bakari? Or was this something the NAACP was off
freelancing on their own. They this was their operation that
they were running, and they happened. She current mac happens
to know Johnny Jennings. That would not surprise me at all.
In fact, I expect the head of the NAACP to
be very well acquainted with the police chief and maybe
even his right hand man. I assume that CMPD does
a lot of events with the NAACP right various events,
all sorts of things. You're doing any kind of like
you know, events, gala or something you want to invite
the police chief and you're going to do something, you know,
community safety event you want to invite CMPD. I have
no doubt whatsoever. There's nothing inappropriate about that whatsoever. And
then you develop a relationship. You have the chief's number,
or you have his right hand man's number, and so
you reach out to this person because this is the
one you know. And rather than Koch or Vestola, rather
of them them saying, you know what, we shouldn't be
engaged in this kind of behavior, they said, well, we'll
take it offline, out of the government servers, and we'll
put it on you know, Google email or Gmail accounts
or whatever, and we'll email you that way. So they
recognized that this would not be appropriate to do from
a city employee standpoint, which means they did recognize the
political nature of it because they moved it off to
private email, or maybe they always communicate via private email.
I don't know. See again, there are lots of there
are lots of gaps in this story. But it's still early,
it's still developing, so there are going to be a
lot of gaps. And there's no formal complaint where you
would spell all of this stuff out and then it
could be tested in a court of law or in
mediation or something. But we're not. We are deprived of
that as well, because all we get is the police
chief is threatening to sue for half a million dollars
because of reputational haunt. Um okay, Uh. WBT is the
one who reported that Jennings wants half a million dollars.
We also reported that the chief is the one who
reached out to the head of the NAACP asking her
to file the complaint, and then his staff got busy
with those emails signed your colleague, Mark Garrison, news director.
Thank you, Mark, I appreciate it, right. So okay, so
there you go that there's the there's the detailed Jennings
reached out to the NAACP asking her to file the complaint.
That seems pretty important. So now you get your friend
in the NAACP to file the complaint. Now you go
and say, well, if you don't want me to sue
you guys, you know, give me half a million dollars
because now the complaint doesn't even matter, right because Bocari's gone, yeah,
this is it. It just smacks of a shakedown, all right,
real quick? Uh sad. Note to report to you that
Brad Krantz, former WBT host here, he passed away today.
There is a memorial service. He will be held on
Friday at eleven am up in Greensboro, where he lived,
and our prayers are with his family and may his
memory be a blessing. All Right, that'll do it for
this episode. Thank you so much for listening. I could
not do the show without your support and the support
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