Speaker 1: You asked a question earlier about whether I ever felt
Speaker 1: like in danger at all. This night probably fell into
Speaker 1: that category. I was inside my camper and something came
Speaker 1: up outside my camper, but it was making the most
Speaker 1: ungodly sounds. I mean, it was a cross between growls
Speaker 1: and screams, and it literally sounded like it was right
Speaker 1: outside my camper. And I have to say that, as
Speaker 1: much as I want to in some ways see one
Speaker 1: of these up close, that particular night, I was afraid
Speaker 1: to go outside. I didn't want to open my camper door.
Speaker 1: I didn't have a light. My flashlight had broken earlier
Speaker 1: that same day, and I didn't feel comfortable opening my
Speaker 1: camper door and going out into the dark to see
Speaker 1: what it was.
Speaker 2: I'd like to welcome Mark to Bigfoot Crossroads. Mark is
Speaker 2: a Bigfoot investigator. His investigations have taken them all over
Speaker 2: the place. Thanks Mark for joining me, Well, thank you
Speaker 2: for having me on. I appreciate the invitation. Yeah, we
Speaker 2: just had a little bit of a hiccup with the
Speaker 2: infamous Bigfoot curse. Leave it to things to go wrong
Speaker 2: anytime you talk about Bigfoot. So oh sure you were
Speaker 2: saying what got you started on this journey.
Speaker 1: Well, in nineteen seventy three, I was camping with a
Speaker 1: friend and he was a little older than me, so
Speaker 1: I kind of looked up to him took his word
Speaker 1: for things. But we were camping in somewhere around midnight.
Speaker 1: It had started to rain, just very light, and he
Speaker 1: was asleep and I had maybe dozed off. But I
Speaker 1: woke up and I heard what sounded like somebody walking
Speaker 1: around the edge of our camping area. And we were
Speaker 1: under a tarp and had a fire going, but the
Speaker 1: fire had died down, so I threw some more wood
Speaker 1: on it and got it going pretty good, and I
Speaker 1: could see the outline of what looked like a very
Speaker 1: large person, and so I got a little bit worried,
Speaker 1: not knowing what it was. So I woke him up
Speaker 1: and I told him, and he got up and he
Speaker 1: looked and he saw it too, and he said, oh,
Speaker 1: he said, that's the old hermit that lives back here
Speaker 1: in the woods. He said, I've seen him before, and
Speaker 1: he's weird because he has long hair and he wears
Speaker 1: a fur coat all year round, even in the summertime.
Speaker 1: And so I just kind of took his word for
Speaker 1: it that it was a hermit. But this figure continued
Speaker 1: to hang around for several hours till probably around three
Speaker 1: in the morning. Even my friend was getting a little scared,
Speaker 1: and so he said, well, let's walk to the house.
Speaker 1: So we're probably half a mile at least from my house,
Speaker 1: and I said, there's no way I'm leaving this campfire,
Speaker 1: you know, in the dark and not knowing, you know,
Speaker 1: what this is out there. And so we ended up
Speaker 1: staying till it got daylight, probably five thirty six o'clock,
Speaker 1: and we left and walked up to my house. And
Speaker 1: at the time, Bigfoot wasn't really on my mind, and
Speaker 1: so I didn't think to look for tracks or you know,
Speaker 1: anything like that. We just got away from there. And
Speaker 1: a little bit, I'll add to that. Not long after that,
Speaker 1: my brother, who was actually nineteen years older than me,
Speaker 1: had been back there. He had some cars that he
Speaker 1: would go from time to time and get parts off
Speaker 1: of and things, and he had gone back there, and
Speaker 1: he as far as I know, I mean, I felt
Speaker 1: like he wasn't afraid of anything. And I wasn't there
Speaker 1: at the time, but my mother told me later, she
Speaker 1: said he came to the house and came roaring up
Speaker 1: in his car from back at what we call back
Speaker 1: in the back end, which was where this was at,
Speaker 1: in the wooded part of our farm, and she said
Speaker 1: he was white as a ghost. And he came in
Speaker 1: the house and she said, what in the world is
Speaker 1: wrong with you? And he said, I'm not going to
Speaker 1: tell anybody what just happened because they'll think I'm crazy. Well,
Speaker 1: I suspect that he also saw what was lurking around
Speaker 1: the edge of our campfire that night, and so anyway,
Speaker 1: that kind of led me down the path to having
Speaker 1: an interest. You know, It was probably a few years
Speaker 1: later before it really dawned on me that what I
Speaker 1: had probably seen that night was in fact a bigfoot.
Speaker 1: But that kind of got me started on the path,
Speaker 1: and so then I've been interested every since.
Speaker 2: The figure that you saw, you said it was there
Speaker 2: for a very long time. Was it just hanging out
Speaker 2: in the trees watching or was it pacing around?
Speaker 1: What was it doing? It was walking around, but it
Speaker 1: would stay just far enough out that it was difficult
Speaker 1: to really see. But when I would build the fire up,
Speaker 1: it would move farther away, and as the fire would
Speaker 1: die down, it would come closer in. It was very
Speaker 1: much conscious of where or how close it could get
Speaker 1: before it could be very obviously identified. But it was
Speaker 1: definitely close enough that we could see that it was
Speaker 1: a very large figure. You know. Like I said, I
Speaker 1: couldn't say that it was hair covered, but I just
Speaker 1: took my friend's word that he had seen it before
Speaker 1: and that he thought it was a hermit that lived
Speaker 1: in the woods, which you know, in hindsight is kind
Speaker 1: of funny to think about, but you know, we were
Speaker 1: just teenagers, so that didn't seem so to me at
Speaker 1: the time, but you know, it was also I would say,
Speaker 1: if it was a man, it was a very very
Speaker 1: enlarge man. I you know, I didn't really have anything
Speaker 1: to judge size by, but you know, I come from
Speaker 1: a family of fairly large people.
Speaker 3: I have a a brother that was six foot four
Speaker 3: and a couple of uncles that were six seven six eight,
Speaker 3: and I would say this figure was easily larger than any.
Speaker 1: Of them, so I would have to guess at least
Speaker 1: seven foot. But again, it was dark. We were just
Speaker 1: seeing it in the fire light, and so didn't really
Speaker 1: have anything to judge size by. So that's just an
Speaker 1: estimate on my part, right.
Speaker 2: You know, stories of Hermits living in the woods are
Speaker 2: something from decades ago. You don't really hear about them
Speaker 2: that much anymore. But the whole idea of you know,
Speaker 2: someone going off and living in the woods is to
Speaker 2: avoid people and get away from people. So it doesn't
Speaker 2: really make sense to me that a hermit would hang
Speaker 2: around people that it saw camping at night or even
Speaker 2: be that active at night time. You know, humans can't
Speaker 2: see very well in the dark, and it's kind of
Speaker 2: dangerous and if you're living out there by yourself, I
Speaker 2: just don't know why a person would be hanging around
Speaker 2: a campsite and just walking around all night. It doesn't
Speaker 2: really make any sense. But it also doesn't make sense
Speaker 2: for an animal to do that either, So it kind
Speaker 2: of leaves you with only one possibility at that point,
Speaker 2: if you're using logic to reach the conclusion.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's kind of what took me down the
Speaker 1: path of thinking it had to be a bigfoot. And
Speaker 1: you know, in hindsight, you know, we weren't small children,
Speaker 1: we were teenagers. But at the same time, I, you know,
Speaker 1: I've read a lot of reports of Bigfoot being interested
Speaker 1: in younger people, children in particular, and so that whether
Speaker 1: it's curiosity or you know, some people refer to them
Speaker 1: as watchers. You know, they tend to, for whatever reason,
Speaker 1: have an interest in what people are doing. And so,
Speaker 1: you know, and like I said, in hindsight, I've kind
Speaker 1: of gone through all the possibilities like you just talked about,
Speaker 1: and it's really the only thing that I could come
Speaker 1: up with. And so that, you know, that really led
Speaker 1: my interest into trying to find out more about them.
Speaker 2: Well when did you make that crossover from just being
Speaker 2: interested to actively pursuing this.
Speaker 1: Well, I was. I was very interested in read a
Speaker 1: lot of material all through my life after you know,
Speaker 1: I probably probably a few years, two or three years
Speaker 1: after that was when I maybe first saw the Patterson
Speaker 1: Gimlin film and then I saw the legend of Boggy
Speaker 1: Creek and I started to kind of make that connection,
Speaker 1: and then I started reading material. I used to be
Speaker 1: a very avid reader and I read pretty much everything
Speaker 1: I could get my hands on, and I continued to
Speaker 1: do that and be interested through my career. You know,
Speaker 1: I had a career and then I had children, and
Speaker 1: it kind of limited how much time I could devote
Speaker 1: to any actual research, and I did have other things happened,
Speaker 1: but I didn't become really full time research until twenty
Speaker 1: eighteen when I retired, and then I started really spending
Speaker 1: a lot of time on expeditions and you know, spending
Speaker 1: time out actually actively seeking out information experiences that I
Speaker 1: could have on my own.
Speaker 2: He told me a story about a trip to Alaska.
Speaker 2: I believe was that part of your Bigfoot investigations or
Speaker 2: was that just a trip?
Speaker 1: It was? Actually I worked in Alaska for quite a
Speaker 1: few years, and so it was while I was working there,
Speaker 1: I was actually living in a city called Cordova, which
Speaker 1: is on the east side of Prince William Sound. The
Speaker 1: only way in and out of that city or by
Speaker 1: a boat or airplane. There's no roads there, and there
Speaker 1: are roads once you get there. So I was living
Speaker 1: there at a vehicle, and I drove out to a
Speaker 1: spot where there's a glacier and I wanted to walk
Speaker 1: up a trail to the glacier, and so I started
Speaker 1: up the trail and I had probably made it maybe
Speaker 1: half a mile. I'm not sure exactly, but I would
Speaker 1: guess about that. And it was almost like, not only
Speaker 1: did I hear something in my head, but I almost
Speaker 1: like I felt resistance. As I was walking. I don't
Speaker 1: know how to explain that, but I heard, basically in
Speaker 1: my head, I heard something say stop, and so I
Speaker 1: stopped for a second, and I thought, what on earth
Speaker 1: was that. That was the first time I'd ever experienced
Speaker 1: anything like that. I'd never at that time, I'd never
Speaker 1: heard of the phenomenon of bigfoot doing mind speak or
Speaker 1: ESP so I had absolutely no idea what it was,
Speaker 1: but I knew it felt very odd, and so, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm not typically afraid of much, so I thought, well,
Speaker 1: it was just a weird coincidence. So I start to
Speaker 1: walk again, and I made it maybe maybe three steps,
Speaker 1: so maybe tops ten feet, and I felt a very
Speaker 1: strong push back, and I heard in my head again
Speaker 1: stop now. And along with that, I didn't hear the words,
Speaker 1: but I had a very strong feeling that if I
Speaker 1: didn't stop, something bad was going to happen. It was
Speaker 1: like the hair on the back of my neck stood up,
Speaker 1: my arms, you know, the hair stood up. So I
Speaker 1: stopped a minute and I thought about it, and I thought, well,
Speaker 1: you know, in my mind, I didn't again associate mind speak,
Speaker 1: but I thought, you know, there must be a bear
Speaker 1: around here or something, something is causing me to have
Speaker 1: the hair stand up and whatever. So I turned around
Speaker 1: and I left. Didn't see anything, didn't hear anything audibly.
Speaker 1: But then later on, as I became more interested and
Speaker 1: we're watching a lot of videos on YouTube and still
Speaker 1: beating material, I heard people tell stories about very similar
Speaker 1: instances and what they called mind speak or ESP, and
Speaker 1: I thought, wow, that seems like exactly what happened to me.
Speaker 1: So again, didn't see anything, didn't audibly hear anything, but
Speaker 1: in my head I definitely heard a very strong warning
Speaker 1: of not going on. And when I turned around and left,
Speaker 1: then everything was fine. I didn't have any more problems.
Speaker 1: I got back to my vehicle and went back home,
Speaker 1: and nothing else happened that day.
Speaker 2: Why do you think some people experience that not others.
Speaker 1: The only thing I could say is that you have
Speaker 1: to be in the wrong place at the right time.
Speaker 1: I think there was a reason, whether it was because
Speaker 1: there was a young one. I mean, this was a
Speaker 1: trail I was on that people walk quite frequently, so
Speaker 1: there had to be, in my opinion, some reason why
Speaker 1: this happened on this particular day. There was something there
Speaker 1: that they did not want me around, and you know.
Speaker 1: Like I said, that's the only thing I can think of.
Speaker 1: I don't know that it's some people. It's just that
Speaker 1: you've got to be in the as I said, the
Speaker 1: wrong place at the right time, and then they will
Speaker 1: warn you. Now with that said, I know other peopleomen
Speaker 1: who have been in the wrong place and got what's
Speaker 1: called zapped where they you know, And I don't know
Speaker 1: if you're familiar, you probably are with that, and a
Speaker 1: lot of your listeners probably are, but a feeling of
Speaker 1: almost they call it zapped because I understand now, I
Speaker 1: haven't had this happen to me. So there again, why
Speaker 1: does that happen to some and not others? Again, I
Speaker 1: think you've just got to be in that spot at
Speaker 1: the time when they don't want you there. And I
Speaker 1: have had people tell me that they felt like they
Speaker 1: were being told not to go on, but they went
Speaker 1: on anyway, and then that's when they got zapped. So
Speaker 1: that very well might be what would have happened to
Speaker 1: me that day had I continued on. I don't know that,
Speaker 1: but I've heard stories similar to that. So I think
Speaker 1: it's kind of the same thing. You've got to be
Speaker 1: in that spot. And when I say some people it happen,
Speaker 1: some don't. I just think some people haven't been in
Speaker 1: that spot yet to have either the warning in their
Speaker 1: mind or to be zapped because they maybe didn't pay
Speaker 1: attention to that warning.
Speaker 2: Oftentimes, whenever people share experiences of mind speak situations, it
Speaker 2: seems to be a warning, especially get out of an area, right.
Speaker 2: And I always found that kind of interesting in comparison to,
Speaker 2: you know, the horror stories that you hear where you know,
Speaker 2: people are claiming these things are dangerous and will kidnap
Speaker 2: you or harm you if possible, in some cases eat you.
Speaker 2: But then you have these contrasting stories of people basically
Speaker 2: being saved by these things, you know, being warned like
Speaker 2: something bad is going to happen if you don't leave
Speaker 2: the area. All right, It doesn't really make sense that,
Speaker 2: you know, there would be that large of a contrast
Speaker 2: out there.
Speaker 1: Well, but think of it in terms of humans. I mean,
Speaker 1: we have people in the human society that will help
Speaker 1: you go out of their way to do good things
Speaker 1: for you, and we have other people who would kill
Speaker 1: you for a ten dollar bill or less. And so
Speaker 1: you know, I personally, I don't have a problem with
Speaker 1: the contrast because I think they in many ways are
Speaker 1: similar to us, and that there is a huge variation
Speaker 1: in mentality and attitude, and just like there is in humans,
Speaker 1: I think there probably are. Just like with humans, I
Speaker 1: think there's probably a thousand good people for every really
Speaker 1: really bad person, the ones that would be willing to
Speaker 1: kill you, or maybe even the ratio might even be
Speaker 1: more than that. Maybe there's ten thousand good for one bad.
Speaker 1: I don't know, but I think the same thing may
Speaker 1: hold true. And that's you know, that's kind of how
Speaker 1: I look at it anyway.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but by nature, I just question things and oh, sure,
Speaker 2: you know, whenever, and I'm not doubting that mind speak occurs.
Speaker 2: I've talked to enough people. I've known people personally that
Speaker 2: have experienced it, and again it was a warning type situation.
Speaker 2: But then I start to question, Okay, well, if they
Speaker 2: can communicate that way, why do they make vocalizations at all? Why,
Speaker 2: you know, why don't the bad ones use it to
Speaker 2: their advantage and get inside of our heads to confuse
Speaker 2: us so they can take us or kill us or
Speaker 2: whatever they're going to do to us. Do you think
Speaker 2: that it's possible that them being individuals like you're talking
Speaker 2: about that some might have abilities that others don't have.
Speaker 1: Oh, you know, I really don't know. I don't have
Speaker 1: anything to really base an opinion or a judgment concerning
Speaker 1: that on. So, you know, though, back to what you
Speaker 1: were saying about, do you know, do some of them
Speaker 1: have the ability, the bad ones to use it to
Speaker 1: somehow trick people and maybe cause people harm. We don't
Speaker 1: really know that that doesn't happen. I mean, there are
Speaker 1: thousands of people that disappear in the forests every year,
Speaker 1: and many of which are never found. Now, what happens
Speaker 1: to those people nobody knows. You know. The assumption is
Speaker 1: wild animals or they fall into some kind of an
Speaker 1: area and get hurt where they're never found. But is
Speaker 1: it possible that maybe some of the bad ones are
Speaker 1: using something to trick these people and therefore do them harm.
Speaker 1: I don't know, No one knows, but I think it's
Speaker 1: definitely a possibility, even if it seems out there a ways,
Speaker 1: it's something that could happen.
Speaker 2: Well, that's kind of what I was getting at on
Speaker 2: that train of thought. You know, like you said, there
Speaker 2: are thousands of people that go missing in the wilderness,
Speaker 2: and we know that there's bountiful reasons why that can
Speaker 2: happen normally, but there are situations where it seems rather strange.
Speaker 2: And I guess if that happened to a person where
Speaker 2: it was used against them in a nefarious way, if
Speaker 2: you don't make it out of there, you don't get
Speaker 2: to share the story. So may it may be one
Speaker 2: of those situations, exactly. I agree. So tell me about
Speaker 2: the first official big foot trip you made the first
Speaker 2: time that you're like, Okay, I'm going here and I'm investigating.
Speaker 2: Did you meet up with a group of people.
Speaker 1: Did you go solo? Yeah? No, I well I had
Speaker 1: done a few things solo, but not with any results
Speaker 1: to speak of. And the first official one I went
Speaker 1: on was with a BFRORO expedition and it actually went
Speaker 1: to a place called Temco State Park in Tennessee, and
Speaker 1: so that was where we went. There was a let's see, yeah,
Speaker 1: it was on that expedition. I was not with them,
Speaker 1: but some other people had a visual sighting. They took
Speaker 1: pictures of footprints. They didn't have casting material with them,
Speaker 1: but they took photographs along with the only thing they
Speaker 1: had for size comparison was some money. So they laid
Speaker 1: that down and photographed that next to the footprints, and
Speaker 1: I actually went back out the next morning with them
Speaker 1: and we went to the site where it happened, and
Speaker 1: there was a fair amount of physical evidence as far
Speaker 1: as the footprint that they found. Unfortunately had been driven
Speaker 1: over by someone else before they got back the next morning,
Speaker 1: so they couldn't cast it that. They did have the photographs,
Speaker 1: excuse me, and there was some evidence of where we
Speaker 1: kind of determined it must have been a juvenile because
Speaker 1: it according to the people that saw it. We used
Speaker 1: another gentleman in the group for size comparison who was
Speaker 1: a little over six foot tall, and they thought that
Speaker 1: it was very close in size to him. And then
Speaker 1: we could see where it had gone up an embankment.
Speaker 1: There weren't footprints, but there were definitely marks in the
Speaker 1: soil where something had climbed up there. Now, the reason
Speaker 1: that we determined that we did not think it was
Speaker 1: a bear was that there was a was a very
Speaker 1: steep bank and there was a tree and there had
Speaker 1: been a limb sticking out that was probably about two
Speaker 1: or three inches in diameter, and you could see where
Speaker 1: that limb and they had reported that they saw it
Speaker 1: reach up and grab a tree limb and help pull
Speaker 1: itself up, which a bear obviously doesn't do. But that
Speaker 1: limb was twisted, so whatever had grabbed it had obviously
Speaker 1: had the ability to wrap it's for lack of a
Speaker 1: better word, hand around it, and as it pulled itself up,
Speaker 1: it rotated that and actually twisted that limb, and then
Speaker 1: of course you could see the marks in the ground
Speaker 1: where it had gone up, and that was to me
Speaker 1: one of the more exciting things that happened on that trip.
Speaker 1: But as far as myself hearing and seeing things, we
Speaker 1: were out probably the second or third night of the expedition,
Speaker 1: and there was a pretty good group of us, probably
Speaker 1: eight or ten people, and we had built a little
Speaker 1: fire and we were all sitting around talking and there
Speaker 1: were two things that occurred. One was orbs, and I
Speaker 1: know you had mentioned you wanted to hear about the orbs,
Speaker 1: and what we saw that night were small orbs. I
Speaker 1: would say, very small by most people's identification. You know,
Speaker 1: I've heard of pretty big ones, but these range I
Speaker 1: would say from the It was hard to say because
Speaker 1: they were far away, fairly far, one hundred feet at
Speaker 1: the closest to probably one hundred yards at the farthest,
Speaker 1: but they were probably from marble to golf ball size.
Speaker 1: And the people said, well, you probably just saw fireflies
Speaker 1: or lightning bugs, whatever term you used for them, and
Speaker 1: I would say, okay. The problem was they weren't blinking
Speaker 1: most of the time, they were moving around very quickly,
Speaker 1: and they were all different colors. They were not the
Speaker 1: same color, they were not even a similar color. They
Speaker 1: ranged from red to blue to green and white, all
Speaker 1: different colors. And they were in the woods, you know,
Speaker 1: just like I said, they were moving around that there
Speaker 1: was no rhyme or reason for what they were doing
Speaker 1: as far as I could tell. But there were hundreds
Speaker 1: of them, and it was a very moving thing, a
Speaker 1: spectacular thing, whatever word you want to use. But I
Speaker 1: was kind of in awe because I'd never seen anything
Speaker 1: like that before. You say, hundreds of them, yes, yes, Wow?
Speaker 1: How long? Did this go on? Pretty much all evening?
Speaker 1: You know, it got to the point where, you know,
Speaker 1: we had seen them, we had all talked about them.
Speaker 1: We kind of were in awe of them. But at
Speaker 1: the same time, you know, they became sort of a
Speaker 1: part of what was around us, and so we didn't
Speaker 1: really you know, after so long, after maybe I would
Speaker 1: say fifteen minutes or at most half an hour of
Speaker 1: watching these things and talking about them, you know, you
Speaker 1: just kind of tend to start talking about other things,
Speaker 1: and you know, we still kept an eye on them
Speaker 1: and watch them, and they did kind of come and go.
Speaker 1: I mean there were times where they would almost die
Speaker 1: out to where there weren't any or very few, and
Speaker 1: at other times they would just like I said, there'd
Speaker 1: be hundreds of them all, and they were all in
Speaker 1: the woods. We were in kind of a clearing that
Speaker 1: was maybe I'm guessing, well, it was less than one
Speaker 1: hundred yards across. I don't know exactly how far, but
Speaker 1: I would say less than one hundred yards, and I'm
Speaker 1: judging that on the size of a football field. It
Speaker 1: was I would say maybe sixty yards across, if I was
Speaker 1: going to guess, And we were kind of near one
Speaker 1: side of it, and they were pretty much in the
Speaker 1: woods all around the far side from us, and none
Speaker 1: of them ever came near us. You know, I've heard
Speaker 1: people talk about orbs that basically came right up almost
Speaker 1: almost to them. This never happened. For this evening, they
Speaker 1: were all, you know, I would guess again, fifty sixty
Speaker 1: seventy yards away in the woods, and I'm guessing on
Speaker 1: the size because it was far away, but they looked almost,
Speaker 1: you know, from a distance, almost like from a pinpoint
Speaker 1: of light. Which are the ones that I'm guessing were
Speaker 1: maybe actually the size of a marble up to something
Speaker 1: that I would estimate to be the size of a
Speaker 1: golf ball, maybe a baseball, but I don't think they
Speaker 1: got quite that big. That all different colors, And again,
Speaker 1: why they were there, what they are, I have absolutely
Speaker 1: no idea. It's the only time I've seen orbs in person.
Speaker 1: I've talked to a lot of people that have seen them.
Speaker 1: I've seen actually some photographs. People have been able to
Speaker 1: photograph them. And the other thing that sometimes, as you know,
Speaker 1: occur with orbs are what are called rods, which look
Speaker 1: like a rod of light. And you know, I always
Speaker 1: think of like the lightsabers you know on Star Wars,
Speaker 1: only these move and they're like a rod of light.
Speaker 1: But there were none of those, just these very small
Speaker 1: orbs all through the woods.
Speaker 2: Did they change in elevation compared to the ground or
Speaker 2: were they all on a similar plane.
Speaker 1: I would say they ranged from two or three feet
Speaker 1: above the ground up to probably twenty or thirty feet
Speaker 1: up into the into the trees. And they moved both
Speaker 1: horizontally and vertically, so the same orb. If you tried
Speaker 1: to watch one orb, which at times was very hard
Speaker 1: because there were so many, But if you tried to
Speaker 1: watch one, it would sometimes move up and down. It
Speaker 1: would move left and right. I mean not like just across,
Speaker 1: not in that particular, but you know, it might. It might.
Speaker 1: They were almost like they were floating, So one might
Speaker 1: kind of float upward into the right and then you know,
Speaker 1: across to the left, and you know whatever. They were
Speaker 1: just random patterns, but it was like they were almost
Speaker 1: like they were floating around. Would they change speeds? Yes, yes,
Speaker 1: sometimes very slow, sometimes very fast. Now I'm not saying
Speaker 1: I didn't really pay attention to whether a per one
Speaker 1: first went slow and then went fast or vice versa.
Speaker 1: But I can say that I noticed some we're moving
Speaker 1: pretty slowly, others were moving very rapidly.
Speaker 2: I mean just those few details alone. I mean, my
Speaker 2: brain's trying to, you know, do the thing that everybody does,
Speaker 2: like what could it have been?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 2: And it pretty much rolls out everything normal that would
Speaker 2: produce light.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I've been down the same, the same thought pattern,
Speaker 1: the same you know, this is what continues. You know,
Speaker 1: everybody says this, and I'm one to be right there.
Speaker 1: The more research you do, the more confusing it gets.
Speaker 1: You know, instead of getting answers, you just get more questions.
Speaker 1: And that's definitely where I'm at. I have more questions
Speaker 1: now than I had ten or twenty years ago. You know,
Speaker 1: when when I first got into this, and you hear
Speaker 1: this from people all the time, I was definitely in
Speaker 1: the flesh and blood camp. I thought they were some
Speaker 1: kind of an undiscovered primate, whether it was an ape
Speaker 1: or a you know, I didn't really think human back then.
Speaker 1: It was pretty much it had to be some kind
Speaker 1: of an undiscovered ape or a monkey or whatever you
Speaker 1: want to call it. But as time has gone on,
Speaker 1: I have become more in the idea that if they're
Speaker 1: flesh and blood, they're closer to humans than they are
Speaker 1: to apes. And I'm not even convinced anymore that they
Speaker 1: are entirely flesh and blood. I don't know what they are,
Speaker 1: but sometimes and I'm kind of going back to Bigfoot
Speaker 1: now instead of just the orbs, but the orbs are
Speaker 1: very confusing too. But anyway, the point is that as
Speaker 1: time goes on, and the orbs as well, I just
Speaker 1: get more questions rather than more answers.
Speaker 2: I mean, what do you make of the orb phenomenon,
Speaker 2: because you hear a lot of it being reported in
Speaker 2: the bigfoot world. Is this something that's connected to the
Speaker 2: Bigfoot or just happening in the same environments.
Speaker 1: Well, that's another one of those that I don't really
Speaker 1: have an answer to, and I don't think anybody really does.
Speaker 1: But I have heard reports of people seeing Bigfoot coming
Speaker 1: out of orbs, or so we say, orbs turning into Bigfoot.
Speaker 1: I have not witnessed that myself, but you're right, they
Speaker 1: tend to happen in the same places and often at
Speaker 1: the same time. And like I said, the interesting thing
Speaker 1: about the ones that I saw were that size were
Speaker 1: very small, whereas I've heard other people describe them the
Speaker 1: size of a basketball or even bigger. I've heard people
Speaker 1: say they've seen them up to two or three feet across,
Speaker 1: and nothing that I saw that night was anywhere near
Speaker 1: that size. So what they are, what their purpose is,
Speaker 1: I do not know.
Speaker 2: So in your different travels and investigations. Have you found
Speaker 2: yourself in any situation where you felt that you might
Speaker 2: be in danger or experienced aggressive activity.
Speaker 1: No, but I let's see, how do I want to
Speaker 1: say this. I haven't really felt in danger. Well, that time,
Speaker 1: I guess in Alaska, I felt like I could potentially
Speaker 1: be in danger. I didn't know what it was. There
Speaker 1: was another time when I was on an expedition in
Speaker 1: the out in the eastern part of the United States
Speaker 1: where it wasn't a bluff charge, but something approached us
Speaker 1: very closely and fairly rapidly in the woods. Now I
Speaker 1: don't know what it was. I'm not going to say
Speaker 1: it was a bigfoot. I don't know. But it made
Speaker 1: a lot of noise coming toward us, which typical wild
Speaker 1: life doesn't do. In my experience, I've spent a lot
Speaker 1: of time hunting and out in the woods, and you know,
Speaker 1: typically wildlife wants to be quiet, whether it's you know,
Speaker 1: and if they make noise, they make noise going away
Speaker 1: from you, such as deer if you spook one. But
Speaker 1: this was coming at us and it was making noise,
Speaker 1: and somebody commented that, you know, they felt like it
Speaker 1: was similar to a bluff charge. But I didn't feel
Speaker 1: really in danger, just felt like, I don't know what
Speaker 1: this is, and I was on guard. So you know,
Speaker 1: whether that man I felt like I was in danger,
Speaker 1: I don't know, but I mean, it didn't consciously register
Speaker 1: that way, but we were all kind of on edge
Speaker 1: or on guard. And then you know, it just quit
Speaker 1: and there wasn't any more sound, and in a little
Speaker 1: bit everything calmed down and we were fine. But that
Speaker 1: that's the only other instance, other than the time in Alaska,
Speaker 1: that I can think of, that there was something that
Speaker 1: caused me to feel like there could have been something
Speaker 1: strange happening.
Speaker 2: I guess talking about that experience reminded me of several
Speaker 2: times of my own experiences in the field. That was
Speaker 2: one of the things that happened on multiple occasions and
Speaker 2: always kind of bothered me, was you hear them coming
Speaker 2: in very loudly, whatever it is, and then everything just
Speaker 2: goes quiet, and eventually the atmosphere changes, everything goes back
Speaker 2: to at ease, and you realize whatever it was is
Speaker 2: no longer in the area. But you didn't hear whatever
Speaker 2: it was leave. There was no noise being made as
Speaker 2: it left.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, another one of those questions, more questions and answers,
Speaker 1: and I would agree that's pretty much what happened. Happened
Speaker 1: that time, and even going back to that incident I
Speaker 1: talked about to begin with when I was young, you know,
Speaker 1: at some point I would say between three and three
Speaker 1: am and daylight whatever that was, it was circling our
Speaker 1: camp and watching us left, But it did so very quietly.
Speaker 1: I mean I'd been hearing it. I could hear footsteps
Speaker 1: as it circled around. But then when it left, it
Speaker 1: just left and that was it. No more sound. So
Speaker 1: I was going to add one more thing. On that
Speaker 1: trip at Teleco. This was very strange. And you've heard
Speaker 1: of them mimicking people's voices, I'm sure sure. But we were,
Speaker 1: we were all talking, and I had heard this too.
Speaker 1: It sounded like somebody in our group was saying uh huh,
Speaker 1: like when somebody would say something, there'd be this uh
Speaker 1: huh uh. And so pretty soon one of the guys
Speaker 1: was sitting there near me. He said, is that you
Speaker 1: doing that? And I said, doing a lot, And he
Speaker 1: said making that uh huh, And I said, no, it's
Speaker 1: not me, I said, I assumed it was one of
Speaker 1: you guys, and so all the guys were it was
Speaker 1: a man. It sounded like a male, uh huh. And
Speaker 1: all the guys said, no, no, we're not doing that,
Speaker 1: and we're all I kind of laughed, and I said, well,
Speaker 1: I said, I guess if it's a bigfoot, he's agreeing
Speaker 1: with us. I said, I wonder what would happen if
Speaker 1: I did something, you know, disagreeable. So I just pretty
Speaker 1: loudly I said no. And it wasn't probably ten seconds,
Speaker 1: and this voice came back from very near us. It
Speaker 1: said no, and it sounded exactly like my voice. Oh wow,
Speaker 1: but that was that was another one of those hair
Speaker 1: on the back of my neck kind of things stood up.
Speaker 1: But you know, we didn't do anything. We all just
Speaker 1: kind of, you know, looked at each other with their
Speaker 1: mouths hanging open. But that was that was one of
Speaker 1: those mimic moments that you've probably heard about as well.
Speaker 2: So you've gone on several BFRORO audience and then you've
Speaker 2: gone on other outings yourself. Is there an area that
Speaker 2: you particularly like to go to that is more active
Speaker 2: than others. Do you have sort of like a home
Speaker 2: base of research.
Speaker 1: Not a home base per se, But I've had very
Speaker 1: interesting things happen both in western Pennsylvania, particularly at the
Speaker 1: Allegheny National Forest, and then also in Florida in the Panhandle,
Speaker 1: although well, I should say more than one place in Florida.
Speaker 1: I typically spend winters in Florida, and so I've had
Speaker 1: very interesting things happen in Florida as well. But I
Speaker 1: do want to go back to Teleco because I had,
Speaker 1: as I said, there was some very good activity there,
Speaker 1: and that's in Tennessee. So I don't have one particular area.
Speaker 1: I have several, and I'm sure that as time goes on,
Speaker 1: I'll probably find more.
Speaker 2: Is there one particular piece of evidence or experience that
Speaker 2: you've had that really stands out in your mind as
Speaker 2: your pinnacle achievement.
Speaker 1: Well, I don't know if it's a pinnacle achievement. It's
Speaker 1: probably a pinnacle failure on my part. I was in
Speaker 1: Amighainy National Forest, and I pull a pretty big trailer.
Speaker 1: When I go out, I've got a thirty three foot
Speaker 1: toy hommer, and I carry an electric buggy with me
Speaker 1: because I'm not able to really hike very far anymore.
Speaker 1: And so anyway, we had a fire going and we
Speaker 1: were sitting on one side of my camper. And I
Speaker 1: don't know how to explain this, but we'll just use
Speaker 1: directional like left and right. So if I was facing
Speaker 1: my camper, which I was actually sitting with my back
Speaker 1: to it, but let's say I was facing it off
Speaker 1: to all the people that had gone out that night
Speaker 1: to do investigations had gone down a like a fire
Speaker 1: trail to my left, and they I had a radio
Speaker 1: at base camp, and they were radioing me from time
Speaker 1: to time, and there was one other guy there with me.
Speaker 1: They had all gone to the left. One group had
Speaker 1: gone down I would estimate a quarter mile, another group
Speaker 1: about a half a mile down this fire trail, and
Speaker 1: they were sitting and there was while this was in
Speaker 1: a national forest, there was some private property to my
Speaker 1: right and up the hillways and where we were at
Speaker 1: it was gravel, so you could hear things moving around
Speaker 1: in the gravel. And I heard footsteps coming down toward
Speaker 1: from the way of the cabin from my right, toward
Speaker 1: my camper, and I made the comment to the gentleman
Speaker 1: I was with, I said, it sounds like somebody's walking down.
Speaker 1: I bet some hunters had came up up to that
Speaker 1: cabin and they're coming down here to see what we're doing,
Speaker 1: and he agreed, and so a few minutes goes by,
Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden, we start hearing what
Speaker 1: people call samurai chatter. I don't really like that term
Speaker 1: because I don't think it sounds anything like samurai, but nonetheless,
Speaker 1: it is a chatter, and it sounded amazingly similar to
Speaker 1: the recordings that were done known as the Sierra Sounds,
Speaker 1: but it was virtually right. So it came from my
Speaker 1: right and by the time we heard the chatter, it
Speaker 1: was like they were right behind my camper, which was
Speaker 1: probably from me to where I estimate they were. It
Speaker 1: was definitely less than fifty feet, probably maybe only thirty.
Speaker 1: And my failure was I set there and I listened
Speaker 1: to this for probably a good twenty seconds or more.
Speaker 1: And there were obviously two different voices. One was lower pitched,
Speaker 1: the other was a little bit higher. They were both deep,
Speaker 1: but one was way much deeper than the other, so
Speaker 1: I'm assuming it was maybe a male female couple. I
Speaker 1: don't know, but anyway, they were doing their chatter. And
Speaker 1: then by the time I thought to turn my recorder on,
Speaker 1: I literally the instant I hit the button to turn
Speaker 1: it on and record. They stopped, and I don't know
Speaker 1: if they somehow heard something although there was no click.
Speaker 1: I don't know if they since EMF It's hard to say.
Speaker 1: But anyway, they immediately stopped and we heard them walk
Speaker 1: away through the gravel. Again, you could hear the crunch, crunch,
Speaker 1: crunch they left, And that's probably the thing that stands
Speaker 1: out in my mind as kind of the most impressive
Speaker 1: thing that has happened to me. Now, the next morning,
Speaker 1: when it got daylight, we did go out and look
Speaker 1: for footprints, but you know, in gravel there were you
Speaker 1: could see some impressions and some scrape marks, but definitely
Speaker 1: no castable or recognizable, not even picture something you could
Speaker 1: take pictures of for footprints. But that was a very
Speaker 1: exciting thing that happened. And you know, somebody said, you know,
Speaker 1: that was a once in a lifetime happening, and I
Speaker 1: think that's probably true.
Speaker 2: Did you have lights on in the camper and everything?
Speaker 1: No, everything was dark. The only thing we had was
Speaker 1: a fairly small fire going where we were sitting.
Speaker 2: Wow, yeah, that would be pretty inner. And again, if
Speaker 2: we're talking about the possibility of it being hunters or
Speaker 2: humans or whatever. The idea of someone creeping up on
Speaker 2: somebody's camper after dark like that, you tend to announce yourself,
Speaker 2: you know, and let people know. I just again, it
Speaker 2: doesn't really make sense.
Speaker 1: That's what I would have expected, That's what I was
Speaker 1: expecting prior to the chatter starting. I was expecting somebody
Speaker 1: to say, hey, you know how you guys doing, or
Speaker 1: you know something. But instead we got the very distinctive
Speaker 1: sound that has been recorded, I think in more than
Speaker 1: one instance, but definitely that's and you know, I made
Speaker 1: the comment to the guy I was with later, I said,
Speaker 1: you know what amazed me? And he agreed with this completely,
Speaker 1: But I said, what amazed me was that it sounded
Speaker 1: almost exactly like the Sierra sounds that were recorded twenty
Speaker 1: five hundred miles away. And that was very surprising to
Speaker 1: me because I would assume that, especially if these are
Speaker 1: flesh and blood and they're scattered all over the United States,
Speaker 1: that they would at least have different dialects, you know,
Speaker 1: similar to what the Native Americans would have had years ago.
Speaker 1: They had different languages, and some of their languages overlapped.
Speaker 1: But you know, your East Coast Native Americans, I don't
Speaker 1: think talked at all like the natives out on the
Speaker 1: West coast, And so that was one of the things
Speaker 1: that really surprised me, was the similarity in the way
Speaker 1: it sounded.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was something that stood out to me, as
Speaker 2: well as how you can go to all these different locations.
Speaker 2: And I know that people have different opinions whenever it
Speaker 2: comes to stick structures, and I know that we don't
Speaker 2: have any proof that says bigfoot makes these sick structures.
Speaker 2: But what I can tell you is regardless of where
Speaker 2: you go, you find them in areas that are purported
Speaker 2: to have bigfoot or that have all the right things
Speaker 2: for bigfoot to be there. But the structures remain the
Speaker 2: same no matter where you're at. They are the same designs.
Speaker 2: And I always wondered, so are they these things being
Speaker 2: taught and where they all one group at one time
Speaker 2: to have that knowledge and moved it to different parts
Speaker 2: of the country. Like the language thing, How does the
Speaker 2: ones on the west coast speak the same language as
Speaker 2: the ones on the East coast if they all weren't
Speaker 2: the same at some point.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I have It's not my own theory. I've
Speaker 1: heard other people say it as well, but I. As
Speaker 1: time goes on, I have become more of the opinion
Speaker 1: that these structures are also some form of language that
Speaker 1: we haven't figured out how to read yet. But as
Speaker 1: they build these structures, or they put you know, what
Speaker 1: some people call glyphs, you know, they make certain patterns
Speaker 1: with sticks and so forth, I think they are communicating
Speaker 1: with each other somehow. You know. Some people say, well,
Speaker 1: they might be warnings of territory or you know whatever.
Speaker 1: I don't know what they are, but I do know
Speaker 1: that there are very similar I just saw a friend
Speaker 1: of mine had posted where he had taken a picture
Speaker 1: of a stick pattern that he had found in the forest,
Speaker 1: and a friend of his and mine also had also
Speaker 1: found a stick structure and posted a picture. These two
Speaker 1: pictures were taken about ten miles apart, but they looked identical.
Speaker 1: So the odds of that happening randomly, you know, some
Speaker 1: people say, well, the sticks just happen to fall that way,
Speaker 1: all right, Well, how do you get two patterns, and
Speaker 1: these were fairly complex patterns. How do you get two
Speaker 1: patterns ten miles apart that look exactly the same, you know,
Speaker 1: barring that some person is going around doing that. But
Speaker 1: then I say, okay, why what would be their purpose
Speaker 1: in doing that, you know, and doing it out in
Speaker 1: the middle of the woods where they don't know if
Speaker 1: anybody is necessarily going to find it or not? Right,
Speaker 1: and certainly, what are the odds of if they're doing it,
Speaker 1: if some person is doing it? Okay, they have to
Speaker 1: think that somebody else is going to find these two
Speaker 1: structures ten miles apart and think, oh, that's just like
Speaker 1: the one I saw the other day. So it's it's
Speaker 1: another one of those questions, you know, what are they?
Speaker 1: But I think they're definitely a communications system of some sort.
Speaker 1: I don't know what kind.
Speaker 2: I've experienced something similar where we were investigating a location
Speaker 2: where these things were reportedly visiting a dumpster behind a
Speaker 2: restaurant here in Oklahoma, and on the backside of this
Speaker 2: dumpster were some peculiar markings made by something with a
Speaker 2: hand and fingers. Again, can't say that it wasn't human,
Speaker 2: but it was odd. But one of the markings in
Speaker 2: particular that was repeated a couple different times, it looked
Speaker 2: like something took three or four fingers. And if you
Speaker 2: can just imagine someone drawing the number seven with all
Speaker 2: the digits at the same time. Yeah, this was post
Speaker 2: it online, and a researcher who at the time was
Speaker 2: with the bfro Stan Courtney up in Illinois, I believe,
Speaker 2: contacted me and had a photograph of the same exact
Speaker 2: pattern that was left on the window of his vehicle
Speaker 2: whenever he had parked in an area and gone out,
Speaker 2: investigated and come back. It was on the driver's side window.
Speaker 2: Oh wow, he sent me a photo of that. You know,
Speaker 2: so again the same marking showing up could have been
Speaker 2: a person in both scenarios, I guess, but again very
Speaker 2: odd and the similarity, I mean, it looked like the
Speaker 2: exact same thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I started to wonder if the stick structures and things
Speaker 2: like that aren't of a spiritual nature instead of communication.
Speaker 1: Well, that could be, But again I think if it is,
Speaker 1: then you know, there's still commune indicating in a way
Speaker 1: they're saying, okay, you know, here's here's our spiritual symbol,
Speaker 1: you know, from my literal way of saying it. And
Speaker 1: then other bigfoot come along and see it and they say, oh,
Speaker 1: you know, they're it's kind of like us. You know,
Speaker 1: if we see across we relate it with Christianity. If
Speaker 1: we see the start of David, we relate it to Judaism,
Speaker 1: and so maybe there are different spiritual beliefs and they're
Speaker 1: using these symbols to depict that just like just like
Speaker 1: humans do. Again, I try to It may be wrong
Speaker 1: of me, but I oftentimes relate things they do or
Speaker 1: compare things they do to things humans do, and try
Speaker 1: to look at the purpose or try to figure out
Speaker 1: an answer based on that. Now I might be completely
Speaker 1: wrong in doing that, it might not have anything to
Speaker 1: do with that, but at least that's the best way
Speaker 1: I've come up with to try to maybe get some
Speaker 1: answers to things.
Speaker 2: This is something that we didn't really talk about previously,
Speaker 2: but you had mentioned it and we went down some
Speaker 2: other avenues, but I wanted to bring it up. In
Speaker 2: the worlds of Bigfoot and the paranormal and UFOs, aliens
Speaker 2: and all that. I don't know if it's a new thing,
Speaker 2: but it seems to be growing in popularity that some
Speaker 2: people theorize that all these things are kind of one
Speaker 2: and the same and they're all demonic in nature.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: I know that you have a little bit of history
Speaker 2: in the area of religion. What are your thoughts on
Speaker 2: the possibility of Bigfoot being a demon.
Speaker 1: Well, I think it's possible. As time goes on. Again,
Speaker 1: at one time I thought it was probable. I've kind
Speaker 1: of moved away from that. I don't really know. It's
Speaker 1: definitely to me a possibility, and I don't want to,
Speaker 1: you know, as you said, go too far down the
Speaker 1: rabbit hole. But they they could all be that, and
Speaker 1: there's no way for us to really know. I guess
Speaker 1: the reason that I think it may not be the
Speaker 1: case is what we talked about earlier, that you know, theoretically,
Speaker 1: if they were demonic, they would all be all be bad,
Speaker 1: they would all be trying to do harm to people,
Speaker 1: and that doesn't seem to be the case. Now. With
Speaker 1: that said, I don't think that all people that are
Speaker 1: possessed by demons are necessarily obvious in their demonic nature.
Speaker 1: They sometimes are just people that collect information, so to speak,
Speaker 1: and pass it on. And again, I'm trying to be
Speaker 1: kind of broad here, and I don't want to get
Speaker 1: too far down the hole. But like I said, I
Speaker 1: think it's possible. I don't know that. I think it's probable,
Speaker 1: But on the other hand, I really have no idea
Speaker 1: what they are at this point. I guess one of
Speaker 1: the things I would say that I think makes it
Speaker 1: a possibility is their ability, according to eyewitness reports, to
Speaker 1: do things that seem supernatural, as in appearing or disappearing,
Speaker 1: or mind speak and a sense of supernatural. And these
Speaker 1: are things that could be attributed to something that is spiritual,
Speaker 1: i e. Demonic in nature. So that's I guess my
Speaker 1: primary thoughts on that.
Speaker 2: Have you encountered outside of Bigfoot? I mean, what you
Speaker 2: believe was a demon?
Speaker 1: I will say that I believe that there are people
Speaker 1: that are possessed who don't demonstrate that in the sense
Speaker 1: of what people think in like, you know, you're what
Speaker 1: was the movie The Exorcist? So heads spinning around, phone
Speaker 1: coming out of the mouth. Yeah, I don't. I've never
Speaker 1: seen anything like that. But I will say that I
Speaker 1: believe that I have been around people who were possessed,
Speaker 1: but their purpose of possession was simply to collect information.
Speaker 1: And this is typically collecting that information from within a church,
Speaker 1: to keep an eye on what's going on. And I
Speaker 1: believe that because as a Christian, I believe that Satan
Speaker 1: focuses his primary First of all, Satan isn't everywhere Satan
Speaker 1: is not omnipresent like God is, so Satan has to
Speaker 1: have a way to keep track of what's going on,
Speaker 1: so he knows where to focus his primary efforts, and
Speaker 1: he does that through demons that possess humans. We know
Speaker 1: that from the Bible. The Bible talks about demon possession
Speaker 1: and as instances of Jesus casting demons out, he uses
Speaker 1: those demon possessed people, oftentimes to collect information and relay
Speaker 1: that information back to him. And that's the closest I
Speaker 1: can say I've ever came to demonic activity. I've never
Speaker 1: been involved in a exorcism, although I can tell you
Speaker 1: there are people outside of the Catholic Church that do exorcisms,
Speaker 1: and I have talked to some of those people, and
Speaker 1: their advice to me has always been to stay away
Speaker 1: from it unless you want to become fully immersed as
Speaker 1: they are. You don't want to get involved because once
Speaker 1: you become involved, then they will start attacking you. And
Speaker 1: of course we saw that examples of that in the Exorcist,
Speaker 1: where the Catholic priest that was trying to do the
Speaker 1: exercist would be attacked personally, physical harm done, thrown across
Speaker 1: the room, you know, whatever so they said, don't get
Speaker 1: involved unless you want to become fully involved, and so
Speaker 1: I never really got very involved.
Speaker 2: See that's part of the thing that bothers me is
Speaker 2: there are similarities between some of the stuff that goes
Speaker 2: on in the Bigfoot world and how demons are depicted,
Speaker 2: you know, and we joked at the beginning about the
Speaker 2: Bigfoot curse, but it's something that you become fully aware
Speaker 2: of whenever you get involved in this. And then you
Speaker 2: also hear stories about people oftentimes starting to experience activity
Speaker 2: at their home after they start investigating and going out
Speaker 2: in the field, these things following them, and it has
Speaker 2: ruined lives. It absolutely has ruined some lives. So there's
Speaker 2: just some interesting similarities.
Speaker 1: Here in there.
Speaker 2: So I was just curious about your opinion on it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, no, there are similarities. And I'm aware as
Speaker 1: well of people who have had them follow them home,
Speaker 1: and you know, they have said, well, the only way
Speaker 1: that they could do that, the only way they would
Speaker 1: know because many in some of these instances, the people
Speaker 1: lived twenty thirty forty miles from their research area and
Speaker 1: yet they were followed home, and they said the only
Speaker 1: way that could happen was if they were somehow spiritual
Speaker 1: in nature, because they would have to be able to
Speaker 1: know where you were without actually physically being there. Right,
Speaker 1: So I have heard the same things, and I think that,
Speaker 1: you know, I have no reason to think that people
Speaker 1: saying that were anything but truthful.
Speaker 2: You mentioned orbs. Have you experienced any other phenomenon outside
Speaker 2: of Bigfoot in the orbs, ghosts or UFOs or anything
Speaker 2: like that.
Speaker 1: Not personal. Yeah, I've taken some reports from people of rakes,
Speaker 1: and you know, for anybody out there that's not familiar
Speaker 1: with the rake, the best way I can tell people
Speaker 1: to find out what they are is to type in
Speaker 1: R A K E and a search engine. Only you
Speaker 1: have to do more than that, because otherwise it's going
Speaker 1: to take you to home depot. But put in rake
Speaker 1: and then the word cryptid like cryp t I D
Speaker 1: or rake entity something like that, and it will bring
Speaker 1: up pictures that people have taken of rakes, as well
Speaker 1: as drawings and depictions. But I've had several reports. I've
Speaker 1: seen pictures. I saw a picture a year or so
Speaker 1: ago of a rake that was captured in Pennsylvania on
Speaker 1: a trail cam. So rake would be the other thing. Now,
Speaker 1: as far as things that I've heard, and this is
Speaker 1: back to Bigfoot related, I will say that I was
Speaker 1: on an expedition in the Florida Panhandle, the Apalachic Colon
Speaker 1: National Forest, and there was a lady in the group
Speaker 1: and she could do amazing howls. She had been trained
Speaker 1: in voice and she could just do amazing howls. And
Speaker 1: so one night I was not with her, I was
Speaker 1: with some other people, but we heard what we pretty
Speaker 1: well knew was her do a howl. But the odd
Speaker 1: thing was, over the next five to ten minutes, we
Speaker 1: heard three more howls come from different directions, and at
Speaker 1: one point, I think after the second one, it had
Speaker 1: came from the direction towards our base camp, and I said, oh,
Speaker 1: somebody at base camp just did a reply to her,
Speaker 1: and they sounded just like her. And then we heard
Speaker 1: two more and they were from yet other directions, and so,
Speaker 1: you know, a while later, we all got back to
Speaker 1: base camp and we're talking, and then her group came
Speaker 1: in and we said, you know, wow, you know, those
Speaker 1: were some good howls we heard, and she said, I
Speaker 1: only did one. She said those other three were replies
Speaker 1: and they were not from anybody in our group, and
Speaker 1: they sounded just like her. They were the back to
Speaker 1: the mimicking. I mean, they sounded exactly like her howl,
Speaker 1: but from different directions. And the odds I think again,
Speaker 1: this was at probably midnight one am timeframe. The odds
Speaker 1: of other humans being out in the Appalachic Cola National
Speaker 1: Forest that were able to replicate her howl, the odds
Speaker 1: of that are almost zero. And so that was that
Speaker 1: was definitely a very interesting evening. And that was on
Speaker 1: the last night of this was not a BFRO expedition,
Speaker 1: but it was a private group that had gotten together.
Speaker 1: And then and then the other instance was in a
Speaker 1: green swamp in Florida, which is down in central Florida
Speaker 1: between Orlando and Tampa. And I had been out, we
Speaker 1: had done some night investigation and I got back and
Speaker 1: I was inside my camper, and you know, you you
Speaker 1: asked a question earlier, and I had forgotten this one
Speaker 1: about whether I ever felt like in danger at all.
Speaker 1: This night probably fell into that category because we had
Speaker 1: gotten back, I was inside my camper and something came
Speaker 1: up outside my camp. Now I guess it could have
Speaker 1: been a wild animal of some kind, but if it was,
Speaker 1: it was something I had never heard anything like this before,
Speaker 1: but it was making the most you know, go back
Speaker 1: to our demonic thing ungodly sounds. I mean, it was
Speaker 1: a cross between growls and screams, and it literally sounded
Speaker 1: like it was right outside my camper. And I have
Speaker 1: to say that, as much as I want to in
Speaker 1: some ways see one of these up close, that particular
Speaker 1: night I was I was afraid to go outside. I
Speaker 1: didn't want to open my camper door. I didn't have
Speaker 1: a light. My flashlight had broken earlier that same day,
Speaker 1: and I didn't feel comfortable opening my camper door and
Speaker 1: going out into the dark to see what it was.
Speaker 2: Well, before we get off here, do you want to
Speaker 2: talk a little bit about CSI yeah.
Speaker 1: That'd be great. I appreciate the opportunity to do that.
Speaker 1: I've organized a new organization. It's Cryptid Search Investigations, and
Speaker 1: my goal in this is for it to eventually be nationwide,
Speaker 1: just like the BFRO. And the reason that I wanted
Speaker 1: to do this is I want to do several things,
Speaker 1: I guess, and before I go on with that, I
Speaker 1: guess I should finish. The organization is a nonprofit. It
Speaker 1: is currently authorized as a five to OHO one C three,
Speaker 1: so any money that people might donate will be tax deductible.
Speaker 1: I have some expeditions planned, none are set in stone yet,
Speaker 1: but hopefully one in the Allighaneny National Forest Area in
Speaker 1: October early October, and then late October one in South
Speaker 1: Carolina in I always have trouble say in the name
Speaker 1: of this place, it's oconey, I think state Park, it's
Speaker 1: o CEO n ee uh. And so we're going to
Speaker 1: be there late October, and if people are interested in
Speaker 1: those they can My email for the organization is cryptid
Speaker 1: search at my Yahoo dot com and then they can
Speaker 1: email me for information about that. But currently I'm not
Speaker 1: having a set amount of money the way that BFRORO does.
Speaker 1: I'm asking for donations from people. I feel like if
Speaker 1: people that don't have the money to go on a
Speaker 1: BFRO expedition want to be involved, this is a way
Speaker 1: for them to get in. And that's part of why
Speaker 1: I wanted it to be a five oh one C
Speaker 1: three so that donations are tax deductible. So for those
Speaker 1: people that can afford to make a donation of you know,
Speaker 1: a sizable donation, it will be tax deductible for them.
Speaker 1: I'm trying to think what else I should add to this.
Speaker 1: I don't have my website up and going yet, but
Speaker 1: it should be within the next week or two and
Speaker 1: it will be at cryptidseearch dot org. I have a
Speaker 1: Facebook page that's called cryptied Search. Now there is a
Speaker 1: space in between cryptied and search on the Facebook page.
Speaker 1: And I'm hoping at some point to get a podcast
Speaker 1: of my own going. And I have a YouTube channel
Speaker 1: currently and Rumble called cryptied Search, so people can just
Speaker 1: start looking for crypted search. The other reason I wanted
Speaker 1: it to be a nonprofit is so that when I'm gone,
Speaker 1: it will continue. So currently the organizations, now I shouldn't
Speaker 1: say all of them there are I did find out
Speaker 1: there is at least one other nonprofit Bigfoot organization. But
Speaker 1: let's just if I can, I'll just use bfro and
Speaker 1: as an example that is formed as an LLC. And
Speaker 1: you know, when the current person in charge passes away,
Speaker 1: maybe a long time, we hope, But when that happens,
Speaker 1: there's as far as I know, there's no succession there.
Speaker 1: With CSI, it will have a succession in that it's
Speaker 1: a nonprofit. We have a board of directors and they
Speaker 1: will simply get I'm the president right now, they'll get
Speaker 1: another president. Things will just continue on. And that was
Speaker 1: part of my goal in the organization was to have
Speaker 1: something that would continue. People can definitely email me if
Speaker 1: they want more information, or they can follow the Facebook
Speaker 1: group as well.
Speaker 2: And I will just say an organization like this is
Speaker 2: first off, a great idea, especially the nonprofit aspect of it.
Speaker 2: But for people looking to get their feet wet or
Speaker 2: to get involved in this, these type of audings are
Speaker 2: the way to go. This is a great opportunity to
Speaker 2: meet bigfooters that maybe have some experience, and meet other
Speaker 2: people that are kind of new to it and everything,
Speaker 2: and go out there with like minded people and learn
Speaker 2: things and experience this for yourself.
Speaker 1: Right. We are going to develop as time goes on,
Speaker 1: specific scientific experiments and use them to help further the understanding.
Speaker 1: And by that I mean I can't say what any
Speaker 1: of these are yet, but I have some PhD scientists
Speaker 1: that are going to work with me to help develop
Speaker 1: experiments that we can do to further our understanding. And now,
Speaker 1: the average person that comes on an expedition does not
Speaker 1: have to be involved in that if they don't want
Speaker 1: to be, but if they choose to be they can,
Speaker 1: and that's another thing that you know. I feel like
Speaker 1: there are some other organizations I think out there the
Speaker 1: Olympic Project comes to mind, but that are doing some
Speaker 1: actual scientific experimentation. But I think the organizations doing that
Speaker 1: are pretty few and far between most people that most
Speaker 1: organizations are just doing expeditions, and they provide experiential evidence,
Speaker 1: meaning people's experiences. Like you and I have been talking.
Speaker 1: My experiences are experiential, but I want to get to
Speaker 1: the point where we actually have some scientific information going
Speaker 1: on that will allow more understanding of what's going on
Speaker 1: out there in the bigfoot world. The orbs, the dog men,
Speaker 1: the you know, on and on and on, rakes and
Speaker 1: pug widgees and you name it. We want we want
Speaker 1: more information on all of this stuff.
Speaker 2: Mark, thanks for joining me. Thanks for sharing your experiences
Speaker 2: and your stories. I've thoroughly enjoyed it, my friend, and
Speaker 2: I wish you the best of luck with CSI all right, well.
Speaker 1: I appreciate that, and hopefully you and I can stay
Speaker 1: in contact and talk about some of these things further.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, if you've had your own encounter with bigfoot or
Speaker 2: something else you can't explain send me an email at
Speaker 2: Bigfoot Crossroads at gmail dot com. Check out the website
Speaker 2: Bigfoot Crossroads dot com. You can find links to social media,
Speaker 2: past episodes, merchandise, everything you need all in one place,
Speaker 2: and until next time, remember something in the woods.