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Speaker 1: You asked a question earlier about whether I ever felt

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Speaker 1: like in danger at all. This night probably fell into

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Speaker 1: that category. I was inside my camper and something came

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Speaker 1: up outside my camper, but it was making the most

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Speaker 1: ungodly sounds. I mean, it was a cross between growls

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Speaker 1: and screams, and it literally sounded like it was right

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Speaker 1: outside my camper. And I have to say that, as

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Speaker 1: much as I want to in some ways see one

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Speaker 1: of these up close, that particular night, I was afraid

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Speaker 1: to go outside. I didn't want to open my camper door.

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Speaker 1: I didn't have a light. My flashlight had broken earlier

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Speaker 1: that same day, and I didn't feel comfortable opening my

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Speaker 1: camper door and going out into the dark to see

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Speaker 1: what it was.

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Speaker 2: I'd like to welcome Mark to Bigfoot Crossroads. Mark is

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Speaker 2: a Bigfoot investigator. His investigations have taken them all over

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Speaker 2: the place. Thanks Mark for joining me, Well, thank you

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Speaker 2: for having me on. I appreciate the invitation. Yeah, we

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Speaker 2: just had a little bit of a hiccup with the

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Speaker 2: infamous Bigfoot curse. Leave it to things to go wrong

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Speaker 2: anytime you talk about Bigfoot. So oh sure you were

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Speaker 2: saying what got you started on this journey.

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Speaker 1: Well, in nineteen seventy three, I was camping with a

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Speaker 1: friend and he was a little older than me, so

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Speaker 1: I kind of looked up to him took his word

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Speaker 1: for things. But we were camping in somewhere around midnight.

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Speaker 1: It had started to rain, just very light, and he

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Speaker 1: was asleep and I had maybe dozed off. But I

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Speaker 1: woke up and I heard what sounded like somebody walking

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Speaker 1: around the edge of our camping area. And we were

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Speaker 1: under a tarp and had a fire going, but the

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Speaker 1: fire had died down, so I threw some more wood

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Speaker 1: on it and got it going pretty good, and I

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Speaker 1: could see the outline of what looked like a very

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Speaker 1: large person, and so I got a little bit worried,

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Speaker 1: not knowing what it was. So I woke him up

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Speaker 1: and I told him, and he got up and he

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Speaker 1: looked and he saw it too, and he said, oh,

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Speaker 1: he said, that's the old hermit that lives back here

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Speaker 1: in the woods. He said, I've seen him before, and

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Speaker 1: he's weird because he has long hair and he wears

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Speaker 1: a fur coat all year round, even in the summertime.

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Speaker 1: And so I just kind of took his word for

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Speaker 1: it that it was a hermit. But this figure continued

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Speaker 1: to hang around for several hours till probably around three

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Speaker 1: in the morning. Even my friend was getting a little scared,

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Speaker 1: and so he said, well, let's walk to the house.

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Speaker 1: So we're probably half a mile at least from my house,

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Speaker 1: and I said, there's no way I'm leaving this campfire,

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Speaker 1: you know, in the dark and not knowing, you know,

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Speaker 1: what this is out there. And so we ended up

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Speaker 1: staying till it got daylight, probably five thirty six o'clock,

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Speaker 1: and we left and walked up to my house. And

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Speaker 1: at the time, Bigfoot wasn't really on my mind, and

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Speaker 1: so I didn't think to look for tracks or you know,

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Speaker 1: anything like that. We just got away from there. And

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Speaker 1: a little bit, I'll add to that. Not long after that,

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Speaker 1: my brother, who was actually nineteen years older than me,

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Speaker 1: had been back there. He had some cars that he

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Speaker 1: would go from time to time and get parts off

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Speaker 1: of and things, and he had gone back there, and

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Speaker 1: he as far as I know, I mean, I felt

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Speaker 1: like he wasn't afraid of anything. And I wasn't there

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Speaker 1: at the time, but my mother told me later, she

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Speaker 1: said he came to the house and came roaring up

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Speaker 1: in his car from back at what we call back

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Speaker 1: in the back end, which was where this was at,

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Speaker 1: in the wooded part of our farm, and she said

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Speaker 1: he was white as a ghost. And he came in

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Speaker 1: the house and she said, what in the world is

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Speaker 1: wrong with you? And he said, I'm not going to

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Speaker 1: tell anybody what just happened because they'll think I'm crazy. Well,

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Speaker 1: I suspect that he also saw what was lurking around

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Speaker 1: the edge of our campfire that night, and so anyway,

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Speaker 1: that kind of led me down the path to having

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Speaker 1: an interest. You know, It was probably a few years

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Speaker 1: later before it really dawned on me that what I

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Speaker 1: had probably seen that night was in fact a bigfoot.

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Speaker 1: But that kind of got me started on the path,

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Speaker 1: and so then I've been interested every since.

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Speaker 2: The figure that you saw, you said it was there

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Speaker 2: for a very long time. Was it just hanging out

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Speaker 2: in the trees watching or was it pacing around?

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Speaker 1: What was it doing? It was walking around, but it

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Speaker 1: would stay just far enough out that it was difficult

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Speaker 1: to really see. But when I would build the fire up,

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Speaker 1: it would move farther away, and as the fire would

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Speaker 1: die down, it would come closer in. It was very

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Speaker 1: much conscious of where or how close it could get

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Speaker 1: before it could be very obviously identified. But it was

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Speaker 1: definitely close enough that we could see that it was

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Speaker 1: a very large figure. You know. Like I said, I

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Speaker 1: couldn't say that it was hair covered, but I just

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Speaker 1: took my friend's word that he had seen it before

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Speaker 1: and that he thought it was a hermit that lived

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Speaker 1: in the woods, which you know, in hindsight is kind

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Speaker 1: of funny to think about, but you know, we were

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Speaker 1: just teenagers, so that didn't seem so to me at

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Speaker 1: the time, but you know, it was also I would say,

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Speaker 1: if it was a man, it was a very very

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Speaker 1: enlarge man. I you know, I didn't really have anything

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Speaker 1: to judge size by, but you know, I come from

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Speaker 1: a family of fairly large people.

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Speaker 3: I have a a brother that was six foot four

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Speaker 3: and a couple of uncles that were six seven six eight,

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Speaker 3: and I would say this figure was easily larger than any.

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Speaker 1: Of them, so I would have to guess at least

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Speaker 1: seven foot. But again, it was dark. We were just

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Speaker 1: seeing it in the fire light, and so didn't really

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Speaker 1: have anything to judge size by. So that's just an

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Speaker 1: estimate on my part, right.

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Speaker 2: You know, stories of Hermits living in the woods are

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Speaker 2: something from decades ago. You don't really hear about them

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Speaker 2: that much anymore. But the whole idea of you know,

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Speaker 2: someone going off and living in the woods is to

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Speaker 2: avoid people and get away from people. So it doesn't

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Speaker 2: really make sense to me that a hermit would hang

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Speaker 2: around people that it saw camping at night or even

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Speaker 2: be that active at night time. You know, humans can't

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Speaker 2: see very well in the dark, and it's kind of

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Speaker 2: dangerous and if you're living out there by yourself, I

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Speaker 2: just don't know why a person would be hanging around

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Speaker 2: a campsite and just walking around all night. It doesn't

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Speaker 2: really make any sense. But it also doesn't make sense

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Speaker 2: for an animal to do that either, So it kind

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Speaker 2: of leaves you with only one possibility at that point,

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Speaker 2: if you're using logic to reach the conclusion.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's kind of what took me down the

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Speaker 1: path of thinking it had to be a bigfoot. And

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Speaker 1: you know, in hindsight, you know, we weren't small children,

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Speaker 1: we were teenagers. But at the same time, I, you know,

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Speaker 1: I've read a lot of reports of Bigfoot being interested

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Speaker 1: in younger people, children in particular, and so that whether

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Speaker 1: it's curiosity or you know, some people refer to them

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Speaker 1: as watchers. You know, they tend to, for whatever reason,

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Speaker 1: have an interest in what people are doing. And so,

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Speaker 1: you know, and like I said, in hindsight, I've kind

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Speaker 1: of gone through all the possibilities like you just talked about,

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Speaker 1: and it's really the only thing that I could come

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Speaker 1: up with. And so that, you know, that really led

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Speaker 1: my interest into trying to find out more about them.

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Speaker 2: Well when did you make that crossover from just being

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Speaker 2: interested to actively pursuing this.

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Speaker 1: Well, I was. I was very interested in read a

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Speaker 1: lot of material all through my life after you know,

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Speaker 1: I probably probably a few years, two or three years

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Speaker 1: after that was when I maybe first saw the Patterson

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Speaker 1: Gimlin film and then I saw the legend of Boggy

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Speaker 1: Creek and I started to kind of make that connection,

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Speaker 1: and then I started reading material. I used to be

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Speaker 1: a very avid reader and I read pretty much everything

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Speaker 1: I could get my hands on, and I continued to

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Speaker 1: do that and be interested through my career. You know,

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Speaker 1: I had a career and then I had children, and

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Speaker 1: it kind of limited how much time I could devote

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Speaker 1: to any actual research, and I did have other things happened,

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Speaker 1: but I didn't become really full time research until twenty

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Speaker 1: eighteen when I retired, and then I started really spending

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Speaker 1: a lot of time on expeditions and you know, spending

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Speaker 1: time out actually actively seeking out information experiences that I

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Speaker 1: could have on my own.

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Speaker 2: He told me a story about a trip to Alaska.

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Speaker 2: I believe was that part of your Bigfoot investigations or

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Speaker 2: was that just a trip?

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Speaker 1: It was? Actually I worked in Alaska for quite a

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Speaker 1: few years, and so it was while I was working there,

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Speaker 1: I was actually living in a city called Cordova, which

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Speaker 1: is on the east side of Prince William Sound. The

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Speaker 1: only way in and out of that city or by

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Speaker 1: a boat or airplane. There's no roads there, and there

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Speaker 1: are roads once you get there. So I was living

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Speaker 1: there at a vehicle, and I drove out to a

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Speaker 1: spot where there's a glacier and I wanted to walk

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Speaker 1: up a trail to the glacier, and so I started

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Speaker 1: up the trail and I had probably made it maybe

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Speaker 1: half a mile. I'm not sure exactly, but I would

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Speaker 1: guess about that. And it was almost like, not only

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Speaker 1: did I hear something in my head, but I almost

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Speaker 1: like I felt resistance. As I was walking. I don't

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Speaker 1: know how to explain that, but I heard, basically in

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Speaker 1: my head, I heard something say stop, and so I

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Speaker 1: stopped for a second, and I thought, what on earth

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Speaker 1: was that. That was the first time I'd ever experienced

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Speaker 1: anything like that. I'd never at that time, I'd never

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Speaker 1: heard of the phenomenon of bigfoot doing mind speak or

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Speaker 1: ESP so I had absolutely no idea what it was,

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Speaker 1: but I knew it felt very odd, and so, you know,

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Speaker 1: I'm not typically afraid of much, so I thought, well,

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Speaker 1: it was just a weird coincidence. So I start to

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Speaker 1: walk again, and I made it maybe maybe three steps,

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Speaker 1: so maybe tops ten feet, and I felt a very

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Speaker 1: strong push back, and I heard in my head again

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Speaker 1: stop now. And along with that, I didn't hear the words,

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Speaker 1: but I had a very strong feeling that if I

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Speaker 1: didn't stop, something bad was going to happen. It was

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Speaker 1: like the hair on the back of my neck stood up,

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Speaker 1: my arms, you know, the hair stood up. So I

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Speaker 1: stopped a minute and I thought about it, and I thought, well,

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Speaker 1: you know, in my mind, I didn't again associate mind speak,

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Speaker 1: but I thought, you know, there must be a bear

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Speaker 1: around here or something, something is causing me to have

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Speaker 1: the hair stand up and whatever. So I turned around

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Speaker 1: and I left. Didn't see anything, didn't hear anything audibly.

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Speaker 1: But then later on, as I became more interested and

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Speaker 1: we're watching a lot of videos on YouTube and still

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Speaker 1: beating material, I heard people tell stories about very similar

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Speaker 1: instances and what they called mind speak or ESP, and

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Speaker 1: I thought, wow, that seems like exactly what happened to me.

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Speaker 1: So again, didn't see anything, didn't audibly hear anything, but

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Speaker 1: in my head I definitely heard a very strong warning

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Speaker 1: of not going on. And when I turned around and left,

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Speaker 1: then everything was fine. I didn't have any more problems.

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Speaker 1: I got back to my vehicle and went back home,

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Speaker 1: and nothing else happened that day.

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Speaker 2: Why do you think some people experience that not others.

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Speaker 1: The only thing I could say is that you have

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Speaker 1: to be in the wrong place at the right time.

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Speaker 1: I think there was a reason, whether it was because

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Speaker 1: there was a young one. I mean, this was a

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Speaker 1: trail I was on that people walk quite frequently, so

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Speaker 1: there had to be, in my opinion, some reason why

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Speaker 1: this happened on this particular day. There was something there

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Speaker 1: that they did not want me around, and you know.

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Speaker 1: Like I said, that's the only thing I can think of.

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Speaker 1: I don't know that it's some people. It's just that

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Speaker 1: you've got to be in the as I said, the

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Speaker 1: wrong place at the right time, and then they will

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Speaker 1: warn you. Now with that said, I know other peopleomen

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Speaker 1: who have been in the wrong place and got what's

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Speaker 1: called zapped where they you know, And I don't know

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Speaker 1: if you're familiar, you probably are with that, and a

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Speaker 1: lot of your listeners probably are, but a feeling of

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Speaker 1: almost they call it zapped because I understand now, I

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Speaker 1: haven't had this happen to me. So there again, why

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Speaker 1: does that happen to some and not others? Again, I

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Speaker 1: think you've just got to be in that spot at

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Speaker 1: the time when they don't want you there. And I

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Speaker 1: have had people tell me that they felt like they

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Speaker 1: were being told not to go on, but they went

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Speaker 1: on anyway, and then that's when they got zapped. So

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Speaker 1: that very well might be what would have happened to

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Speaker 1: me that day had I continued on. I don't know that,

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Speaker 1: but I've heard stories similar to that. So I think

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Speaker 1: it's kind of the same thing. You've got to be

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Speaker 1: in that spot. And when I say some people it happen,

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Speaker 1: some don't. I just think some people haven't been in

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Speaker 1: that spot yet to have either the warning in their

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Speaker 1: mind or to be zapped because they maybe didn't pay

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Speaker 1: attention to that warning.

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Speaker 2: Oftentimes, whenever people share experiences of mind speak situations, it

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Speaker 2: seems to be a warning, especially get out of an area, right.

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Speaker 2: And I always found that kind of interesting in comparison to,

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Speaker 2: you know, the horror stories that you hear where you know,

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Speaker 2: people are claiming these things are dangerous and will kidnap

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Speaker 2: you or harm you if possible, in some cases eat you.

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Speaker 2: But then you have these contrasting stories of people basically

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Speaker 2: being saved by these things, you know, being warned like

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Speaker 2: something bad is going to happen if you don't leave

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Speaker 2: the area. All right, It doesn't really make sense that,

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Speaker 2: you know, there would be that large of a contrast

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Speaker 2: out there.

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Speaker 1: Well, but think of it in terms of humans. I mean,

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Speaker 1: we have people in the human society that will help

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Speaker 1: you go out of their way to do good things

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Speaker 1: for you, and we have other people who would kill

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Speaker 1: you for a ten dollar bill or less. And so

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Speaker 1: you know, I personally, I don't have a problem with

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Speaker 1: the contrast because I think they in many ways are

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Speaker 1: similar to us, and that there is a huge variation

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Speaker 1: in mentality and attitude, and just like there is in humans,

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Speaker 1: I think there probably are. Just like with humans, I

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Speaker 1: think there's probably a thousand good people for every really

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Speaker 1: really bad person, the ones that would be willing to

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Speaker 1: kill you, or maybe even the ratio might even be

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Speaker 1: more than that. Maybe there's ten thousand good for one bad.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, but I think the same thing may

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Speaker 1: hold true. And that's you know, that's kind of how

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Speaker 1: I look at it anyway.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but by nature, I just question things and oh, sure,

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Speaker 2: you know, whenever, and I'm not doubting that mind speak occurs.

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Speaker 2: I've talked to enough people. I've known people personally that

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Speaker 2: have experienced it, and again it was a warning type situation.

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Speaker 2: But then I start to question, Okay, well, if they

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Speaker 2: can communicate that way, why do they make vocalizations at all? Why,

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Speaker 2: you know, why don't the bad ones use it to

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Speaker 2: their advantage and get inside of our heads to confuse

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Speaker 2: us so they can take us or kill us or

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Speaker 2: whatever they're going to do to us. Do you think

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Speaker 2: that it's possible that them being individuals like you're talking

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Speaker 2: about that some might have abilities that others don't have.

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Speaker 1: Oh, you know, I really don't know. I don't have

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Speaker 1: anything to really base an opinion or a judgment concerning

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Speaker 1: that on. So, you know, though, back to what you

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Speaker 1: were saying about, do you know, do some of them

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Speaker 1: have the ability, the bad ones to use it to

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Speaker 1: somehow trick people and maybe cause people harm. We don't

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Speaker 1: really know that that doesn't happen. I mean, there are

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Speaker 1: thousands of people that disappear in the forests every year,

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Speaker 1: and many of which are never found. Now, what happens

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Speaker 1: to those people nobody knows. You know. The assumption is

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Speaker 1: wild animals or they fall into some kind of an

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Speaker 1: area and get hurt where they're never found. But is

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Speaker 1: it possible that maybe some of the bad ones are

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Speaker 1: using something to trick these people and therefore do them harm.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, No one knows, but I think it's

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Speaker 1: definitely a possibility, even if it seems out there a ways,

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Speaker 1: it's something that could happen.

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Speaker 2: Well, that's kind of what I was getting at on

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Speaker 2: that train of thought. You know, like you said, there

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Speaker 2: are thousands of people that go missing in the wilderness,

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Speaker 2: and we know that there's bountiful reasons why that can

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Speaker 2: happen normally, but there are situations where it seems rather strange.

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Speaker 2: And I guess if that happened to a person where

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Speaker 2: it was used against them in a nefarious way, if

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Speaker 2: you don't make it out of there, you don't get

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Speaker 2: to share the story. So may it may be one

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Speaker 2: of those situations, exactly. I agree. So tell me about

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Speaker 2: the first official big foot trip you made the first

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Speaker 2: time that you're like, Okay, I'm going here and I'm investigating.

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Speaker 2: Did you meet up with a group of people.

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Speaker 1: Did you go solo? Yeah? No, I well I had

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Speaker 1: done a few things solo, but not with any results

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Speaker 1: to speak of. And the first official one I went

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Speaker 1: on was with a BFRORO expedition and it actually went

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Speaker 1: to a place called Temco State Park in Tennessee, and

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Speaker 1: so that was where we went. There was a let's see, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was on that expedition. I was not with them,

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Speaker 1: but some other people had a visual sighting. They took

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Speaker 1: pictures of footprints. They didn't have casting material with them,

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Speaker 1: but they took photographs along with the only thing they

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Speaker 1: had for size comparison was some money. So they laid

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Speaker 1: that down and photographed that next to the footprints, and

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Speaker 1: I actually went back out the next morning with them

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Speaker 1: and we went to the site where it happened, and

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Speaker 1: there was a fair amount of physical evidence as far

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Speaker 1: as the footprint that they found. Unfortunately had been driven

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Speaker 1: over by someone else before they got back the next morning,

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Speaker 1: so they couldn't cast it that. They did have the photographs,

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Speaker 1: excuse me, and there was some evidence of where we

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Speaker 1: kind of determined it must have been a juvenile because

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Speaker 1: it according to the people that saw it. We used

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Speaker 1: another gentleman in the group for size comparison who was

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Speaker 1: a little over six foot tall, and they thought that

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Speaker 1: it was very close in size to him. And then

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Speaker 1: we could see where it had gone up an embankment.

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Speaker 1: There weren't footprints, but there were definitely marks in the

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Speaker 1: soil where something had climbed up there. Now, the reason

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Speaker 1: that we determined that we did not think it was

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Speaker 1: a bear was that there was a was a very

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Speaker 1: steep bank and there was a tree and there had

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Speaker 1: been a limb sticking out that was probably about two

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Speaker 1: or three inches in diameter, and you could see where

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Speaker 1: that limb and they had reported that they saw it

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Speaker 1: reach up and grab a tree limb and help pull

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Speaker 1: itself up, which a bear obviously doesn't do. But that

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Speaker 1: limb was twisted, so whatever had grabbed it had obviously

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Speaker 1: had the ability to wrap it's for lack of a

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Speaker 1: better word, hand around it, and as it pulled itself up,

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Speaker 1: it rotated that and actually twisted that limb, and then

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Speaker 1: of course you could see the marks in the ground

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Speaker 1: where it had gone up, and that was to me

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Speaker 1: one of the more exciting things that happened on that trip.

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Speaker 1: But as far as myself hearing and seeing things, we

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Speaker 1: were out probably the second or third night of the expedition,

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Speaker 1: and there was a pretty good group of us, probably

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Speaker 1: eight or ten people, and we had built a little

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Speaker 1: fire and we were all sitting around talking and there

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Speaker 1: were two things that occurred. One was orbs, and I

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Speaker 1: know you had mentioned you wanted to hear about the orbs,

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Speaker 1: and what we saw that night were small orbs. I

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Speaker 1: would say, very small by most people's identification. You know,

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Speaker 1: I've heard of pretty big ones, but these range I

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Speaker 1: would say from the It was hard to say because

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Speaker 1: they were far away, fairly far, one hundred feet at

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Speaker 1: the closest to probably one hundred yards at the farthest,

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Speaker 1: but they were probably from marble to golf ball size.

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Speaker 1: And the people said, well, you probably just saw fireflies

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Speaker 1: or lightning bugs, whatever term you used for them, and

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Speaker 1: I would say, okay. The problem was they weren't blinking

380
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Speaker 1: most of the time, they were moving around very quickly,

381
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Speaker 1: and they were all different colors. They were not the

382
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Speaker 1: same color, they were not even a similar color. They

383
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Speaker 1: ranged from red to blue to green and white, all

384
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Speaker 1: different colors. And they were in the woods, you know,

385
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Speaker 1: just like I said, they were moving around that there

386
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Speaker 1: was no rhyme or reason for what they were doing

387
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Speaker 1: as far as I could tell. But there were hundreds

388
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Speaker 1: of them, and it was a very moving thing, a

389
00:27:26,319 --> 00:27:29,079
Speaker 1: spectacular thing, whatever word you want to use. But I

390
00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:31,559
Speaker 1: was kind of in awe because I'd never seen anything

391
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Speaker 1: like that before. You say, hundreds of them, yes, yes, Wow?

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Speaker 1: How long? Did this go on? Pretty much all evening?

393
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Speaker 1: You know, it got to the point where, you know,

394
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Speaker 1: we had seen them, we had all talked about them.

395
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Speaker 1: We kind of were in awe of them. But at

396
00:27:54,359 --> 00:28:02,160
Speaker 1: the same time, you know, they became sort of a

397
00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:05,160
Speaker 1: part of what was around us, and so we didn't

398
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Speaker 1: really you know, after so long, after maybe I would

399
00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:13,279
Speaker 1: say fifteen minutes or at most half an hour of

400
00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:15,839
Speaker 1: watching these things and talking about them, you know, you

401
00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:20,559
Speaker 1: just kind of tend to start talking about other things,

402
00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:22,799
Speaker 1: and you know, we still kept an eye on them

403
00:28:23,079 --> 00:28:26,880
Speaker 1: and watch them, and they did kind of come and go.

404
00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:29,440
Speaker 1: I mean there were times where they would almost die

405
00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:33,079
Speaker 1: out to where there weren't any or very few, and

406
00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:35,920
Speaker 1: at other times they would just like I said, there'd

407
00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:39,000
Speaker 1: be hundreds of them all, and they were all in

408
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Speaker 1: the woods. We were in kind of a clearing that

409
00:28:43,079 --> 00:28:50,359
Speaker 1: was maybe I'm guessing, well, it was less than one

410
00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:53,799
Speaker 1: hundred yards across. I don't know exactly how far, but

411
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Speaker 1: I would say less than one hundred yards, and I'm

412
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Speaker 1: judging that on the size of a football field. It

413
00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:02,839
Speaker 1: was I would say maybe sixty yards across, if I was

414
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Speaker 1: going to guess, And we were kind of near one

415
00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:09,119
Speaker 1: side of it, and they were pretty much in the

416
00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:14,160
Speaker 1: woods all around the far side from us, and none

417
00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:17,920
Speaker 1: of them ever came near us. You know, I've heard

418
00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:22,000
Speaker 1: people talk about orbs that basically came right up almost

419
00:29:22,039 --> 00:29:25,680
Speaker 1: almost to them. This never happened. For this evening, they

420
00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:30,519
Speaker 1: were all, you know, I would guess again, fifty sixty

421
00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:36,880
Speaker 1: seventy yards away in the woods, and I'm guessing on

422
00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:41,039
Speaker 1: the size because it was far away, but they looked almost,

423
00:29:41,119 --> 00:29:43,960
Speaker 1: you know, from a distance, almost like from a pinpoint

424
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Speaker 1: of light. Which are the ones that I'm guessing were

425
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:50,319
Speaker 1: maybe actually the size of a marble up to something

426
00:29:50,359 --> 00:29:52,559
Speaker 1: that I would estimate to be the size of a

427
00:29:52,599 --> 00:29:56,400
Speaker 1: golf ball, maybe a baseball, but I don't think they

428
00:29:56,400 --> 00:30:00,960
Speaker 1: got quite that big. That all different colors, And again,

429
00:30:01,279 --> 00:30:04,960
Speaker 1: why they were there, what they are, I have absolutely

430
00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:09,759
Speaker 1: no idea. It's the only time I've seen orbs in person.

431
00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:13,640
Speaker 1: I've talked to a lot of people that have seen them.

432
00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:16,519
Speaker 1: I've seen actually some photographs. People have been able to

433
00:30:16,519 --> 00:30:21,440
Speaker 1: photograph them. And the other thing that sometimes, as you know,

434
00:30:21,759 --> 00:30:25,480
Speaker 1: occur with orbs are what are called rods, which look

435
00:30:25,599 --> 00:30:30,599
Speaker 1: like a rod of light. And you know, I always

436
00:30:30,599 --> 00:30:34,240
Speaker 1: think of like the lightsabers you know on Star Wars,

437
00:30:34,279 --> 00:30:38,000
Speaker 1: only these move and they're like a rod of light.

438
00:30:38,119 --> 00:30:42,400
Speaker 1: But there were none of those, just these very small

439
00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:44,960
Speaker 1: orbs all through the woods.

440
00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:50,559
Speaker 2: Did they change in elevation compared to the ground or

441
00:30:50,559 --> 00:30:54,000
Speaker 2: were they all on a similar plane.

442
00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:58,880
Speaker 1: I would say they ranged from two or three feet

443
00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:03,759
Speaker 1: above the ground up to probably twenty or thirty feet

444
00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:09,279
Speaker 1: up into the into the trees. And they moved both

445
00:31:09,359 --> 00:31:13,359
Speaker 1: horizontally and vertically, so the same orb. If you tried

446
00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:16,880
Speaker 1: to watch one orb, which at times was very hard

447
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:19,160
Speaker 1: because there were so many, But if you tried to

448
00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:23,599
Speaker 1: watch one, it would sometimes move up and down. It

449
00:31:23,599 --> 00:31:28,519
Speaker 1: would move left and right. I mean not like just across,

450
00:31:28,559 --> 00:31:31,960
Speaker 1: not in that particular, but you know, it might. It might.

451
00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:35,359
Speaker 1: They were almost like they were floating, So one might

452
00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:39,119
Speaker 1: kind of float upward into the right and then you know,

453
00:31:39,279 --> 00:31:42,799
Speaker 1: across to the left, and you know whatever. They were

454
00:31:42,839 --> 00:31:46,279
Speaker 1: just random patterns, but it was like they were almost

455
00:31:46,279 --> 00:31:52,400
Speaker 1: like they were floating around. Would they change speeds? Yes, yes,

456
00:31:52,519 --> 00:31:56,440
Speaker 1: sometimes very slow, sometimes very fast. Now I'm not saying

457
00:31:56,599 --> 00:32:00,839
Speaker 1: I didn't really pay attention to whether a per one

458
00:32:01,799 --> 00:32:04,480
Speaker 1: first went slow and then went fast or vice versa.

459
00:32:04,599 --> 00:32:06,839
Speaker 1: But I can say that I noticed some we're moving

460
00:32:07,119 --> 00:32:10,440
Speaker 1: pretty slowly, others were moving very rapidly.

461
00:32:12,119 --> 00:32:18,119
Speaker 2: I mean just those few details alone. I mean, my

462
00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:21,559
Speaker 2: brain's trying to, you know, do the thing that everybody does,

463
00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:22,720
Speaker 2: like what could it have been?

464
00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:23,559
Speaker 1: Right?

465
00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:27,960
Speaker 2: And it pretty much rolls out everything normal that would

466
00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:28,920
Speaker 2: produce light.

467
00:32:29,359 --> 00:32:34,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I've been down the same, the same thought pattern,

468
00:32:35,039 --> 00:32:39,359
Speaker 1: the same you know, this is what continues. You know,

469
00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:42,759
Speaker 1: everybody says this, and I'm one to be right there.

470
00:32:42,799 --> 00:32:47,480
Speaker 1: The more research you do, the more confusing it gets.

471
00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:52,039
Speaker 1: You know, instead of getting answers, you just get more questions.

472
00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:55,839
Speaker 1: And that's definitely where I'm at. I have more questions

473
00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:59,480
Speaker 1: now than I had ten or twenty years ago. You know,

474
00:32:59,599 --> 00:33:03,880
Speaker 1: when when I first got into this, and you hear

475
00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:06,759
Speaker 1: this from people all the time, I was definitely in

476
00:33:06,839 --> 00:33:10,240
Speaker 1: the flesh and blood camp. I thought they were some

477
00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:13,960
Speaker 1: kind of an undiscovered primate, whether it was an ape

478
00:33:14,079 --> 00:33:18,640
Speaker 1: or a you know, I didn't really think human back then.

479
00:33:18,839 --> 00:33:20,759
Speaker 1: It was pretty much it had to be some kind

480
00:33:20,799 --> 00:33:24,519
Speaker 1: of an undiscovered ape or a monkey or whatever you

481
00:33:24,559 --> 00:33:27,480
Speaker 1: want to call it. But as time has gone on,

482
00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:33,319
Speaker 1: I have become more in the idea that if they're

483
00:33:33,359 --> 00:33:36,559
Speaker 1: flesh and blood, they're closer to humans than they are

484
00:33:36,599 --> 00:33:40,960
Speaker 1: to apes. And I'm not even convinced anymore that they

485
00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:45,160
Speaker 1: are entirely flesh and blood. I don't know what they are,

486
00:33:45,319 --> 00:33:49,119
Speaker 1: but sometimes and I'm kind of going back to Bigfoot

487
00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:52,480
Speaker 1: now instead of just the orbs, but the orbs are

488
00:33:52,559 --> 00:33:56,680
Speaker 1: very confusing too. But anyway, the point is that as

489
00:33:56,759 --> 00:34:00,640
Speaker 1: time goes on, and the orbs as well, I just

490
00:34:00,759 --> 00:34:03,200
Speaker 1: get more questions rather than more answers.

491
00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:06,480
Speaker 2: I mean, what do you make of the orb phenomenon,

492
00:34:06,519 --> 00:34:09,119
Speaker 2: because you hear a lot of it being reported in

493
00:34:09,159 --> 00:34:12,880
Speaker 2: the bigfoot world. Is this something that's connected to the

494
00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:15,239
Speaker 2: Bigfoot or just happening in the same environments.

495
00:34:16,679 --> 00:34:22,320
Speaker 1: Well, that's another one of those that I don't really

496
00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:25,840
Speaker 1: have an answer to, and I don't think anybody really does.

497
00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:33,320
Speaker 1: But I have heard reports of people seeing Bigfoot coming

498
00:34:33,679 --> 00:34:38,280
Speaker 1: out of orbs, or so we say, orbs turning into Bigfoot.

499
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:43,559
Speaker 1: I have not witnessed that myself, but you're right, they

500
00:34:43,599 --> 00:34:47,880
Speaker 1: tend to happen in the same places and often at

501
00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:52,599
Speaker 1: the same time. And like I said, the interesting thing

502
00:34:52,639 --> 00:34:55,639
Speaker 1: about the ones that I saw were that size were

503
00:34:55,760 --> 00:35:00,039
Speaker 1: very small, whereas I've heard other people describe them the

504
00:35:00,039 --> 00:35:03,639
Speaker 1: size of a basketball or even bigger. I've heard people

505
00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:07,079
Speaker 1: say they've seen them up to two or three feet across,

506
00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:10,920
Speaker 1: and nothing that I saw that night was anywhere near

507
00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:15,960
Speaker 1: that size. So what they are, what their purpose is,

508
00:35:16,199 --> 00:35:17,119
Speaker 1: I do not know.

509
00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:23,039
Speaker 2: So in your different travels and investigations. Have you found

510
00:35:23,079 --> 00:35:26,639
Speaker 2: yourself in any situation where you felt that you might

511
00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:30,199
Speaker 2: be in danger or experienced aggressive activity.

512
00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:39,719
Speaker 1: No, but I let's see, how do I want to

513
00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:45,599
Speaker 1: say this. I haven't really felt in danger. Well, that time,

514
00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:50,159
Speaker 1: I guess in Alaska, I felt like I could potentially

515
00:35:50,199 --> 00:35:53,880
Speaker 1: be in danger. I didn't know what it was. There

516
00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:58,000
Speaker 1: was another time when I was on an expedition in

517
00:35:58,039 --> 00:36:01,679
Speaker 1: the out in the eastern part of the United States

518
00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:11,320
Speaker 1: where it wasn't a bluff charge, but something approached us

519
00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:16,480
Speaker 1: very closely and fairly rapidly in the woods. Now I

520
00:36:16,519 --> 00:36:18,599
Speaker 1: don't know what it was. I'm not going to say

521
00:36:18,599 --> 00:36:23,920
Speaker 1: it was a bigfoot. I don't know. But it made

522
00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:27,920
Speaker 1: a lot of noise coming toward us, which typical wild

523
00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:31,719
Speaker 1: life doesn't do. In my experience, I've spent a lot

524
00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:35,320
Speaker 1: of time hunting and out in the woods, and you know,

525
00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:40,400
Speaker 1: typically wildlife wants to be quiet, whether it's you know,

526
00:36:40,639 --> 00:36:43,360
Speaker 1: and if they make noise, they make noise going away

527
00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:47,760
Speaker 1: from you, such as deer if you spook one. But

528
00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:50,960
Speaker 1: this was coming at us and it was making noise,

529
00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:54,920
Speaker 1: and somebody commented that, you know, they felt like it

530
00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:58,519
Speaker 1: was similar to a bluff charge. But I didn't feel

531
00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:02,119
Speaker 1: really in danger, just felt like, I don't know what

532
00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:08,079
Speaker 1: this is, and I was on guard. So you know,

533
00:37:08,159 --> 00:37:10,599
Speaker 1: whether that man I felt like I was in danger,

534
00:37:10,679 --> 00:37:14,639
Speaker 1: I don't know, but I mean, it didn't consciously register

535
00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:19,679
Speaker 1: that way, but we were all kind of on edge

536
00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:22,880
Speaker 1: or on guard. And then you know, it just quit

537
00:37:23,119 --> 00:37:26,760
Speaker 1: and there wasn't any more sound, and in a little

538
00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:31,280
Speaker 1: bit everything calmed down and we were fine. But that

539
00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:34,159
Speaker 1: that's the only other instance, other than the time in Alaska,

540
00:37:34,239 --> 00:37:36,400
Speaker 1: that I can think of, that there was something that

541
00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:41,559
Speaker 1: caused me to feel like there could have been something

542
00:37:41,599 --> 00:37:42,519
Speaker 1: strange happening.

543
00:37:42,559 --> 00:37:46,280
Speaker 2: I guess talking about that experience reminded me of several

544
00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:49,719
Speaker 2: times of my own experiences in the field. That was

545
00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:54,480
Speaker 2: one of the things that happened on multiple occasions and

546
00:37:54,559 --> 00:37:58,119
Speaker 2: always kind of bothered me, was you hear them coming

547
00:37:58,159 --> 00:38:02,559
Speaker 2: in very loudly, whatever it is, and then everything just

548
00:38:02,599 --> 00:38:09,559
Speaker 2: goes quiet, and eventually the atmosphere changes, everything goes back

549
00:38:09,559 --> 00:38:12,880
Speaker 2: to at ease, and you realize whatever it was is

550
00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:16,280
Speaker 2: no longer in the area. But you didn't hear whatever

551
00:38:16,320 --> 00:38:19,199
Speaker 2: it was leave. There was no noise being made as

552
00:38:19,239 --> 00:38:19,760
Speaker 2: it left.

553
00:38:21,199 --> 00:38:25,719
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, another one of those questions, more questions and answers,

554
00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:30,599
Speaker 1: and I would agree that's pretty much what happened. Happened

555
00:38:30,599 --> 00:38:33,360
Speaker 1: that time, and even going back to that incident I

556
00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:38,039
Speaker 1: talked about to begin with when I was young, you know,

557
00:38:38,119 --> 00:38:42,639
Speaker 1: at some point I would say between three and three

558
00:38:42,679 --> 00:38:46,440
Speaker 1: am and daylight whatever that was, it was circling our

559
00:38:46,519 --> 00:38:52,159
Speaker 1: camp and watching us left, But it did so very quietly.

560
00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:55,480
Speaker 1: I mean I'd been hearing it. I could hear footsteps

561
00:38:55,480 --> 00:38:59,480
Speaker 1: as it circled around. But then when it left, it

562
00:38:59,639 --> 00:39:05,880
Speaker 1: just left and that was it. No more sound. So

563
00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:08,599
Speaker 1: I was going to add one more thing. On that

564
00:39:08,719 --> 00:39:13,480
Speaker 1: trip at Teleco. This was very strange. And you've heard

565
00:39:13,519 --> 00:39:19,760
Speaker 1: of them mimicking people's voices, I'm sure sure. But we were,

566
00:39:20,079 --> 00:39:23,079
Speaker 1: we were all talking, and I had heard this too.

567
00:39:23,639 --> 00:39:29,599
Speaker 1: It sounded like somebody in our group was saying uh huh,

568
00:39:30,519 --> 00:39:32,840
Speaker 1: like when somebody would say something, there'd be this uh

569
00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:37,039
Speaker 1: huh uh. And so pretty soon one of the guys

570
00:39:37,239 --> 00:39:39,639
Speaker 1: was sitting there near me. He said, is that you

571
00:39:39,719 --> 00:39:42,000
Speaker 1: doing that? And I said, doing a lot, And he

572
00:39:42,039 --> 00:39:44,840
Speaker 1: said making that uh huh, And I said, no, it's

573
00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:46,559
Speaker 1: not me, I said, I assumed it was one of

574
00:39:46,599 --> 00:39:49,039
Speaker 1: you guys, and so all the guys were it was

575
00:39:49,039 --> 00:39:53,199
Speaker 1: a man. It sounded like a male, uh huh. And

576
00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:56,159
Speaker 1: all the guys said, no, no, we're not doing that,

577
00:39:56,719 --> 00:40:00,280
Speaker 1: and we're all I kind of laughed, and I said, well,

578
00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:02,880
Speaker 1: I said, I guess if it's a bigfoot, he's agreeing

579
00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:05,760
Speaker 1: with us. I said, I wonder what would happen if

580
00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:09,800
Speaker 1: I did something, you know, disagreeable. So I just pretty

581
00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:15,400
Speaker 1: loudly I said no. And it wasn't probably ten seconds,

582
00:40:15,599 --> 00:40:18,480
Speaker 1: and this voice came back from very near us. It

583
00:40:18,599 --> 00:40:23,000
Speaker 1: said no, and it sounded exactly like my voice. Oh wow,

584
00:40:23,079 --> 00:40:26,239
Speaker 1: but that was that was another one of those hair

585
00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:28,559
Speaker 1: on the back of my neck kind of things stood up.

586
00:40:28,599 --> 00:40:31,159
Speaker 1: But you know, we didn't do anything. We all just

587
00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:33,639
Speaker 1: kind of, you know, looked at each other with their

588
00:40:33,679 --> 00:40:38,360
Speaker 1: mouths hanging open. But that was that was one of

589
00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:42,280
Speaker 1: those mimic moments that you've probably heard about as well.

590
00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:46,559
Speaker 2: So you've gone on several BFRORO audience and then you've

591
00:40:46,559 --> 00:40:51,440
Speaker 2: gone on other outings yourself. Is there an area that

592
00:40:51,480 --> 00:40:54,519
Speaker 2: you particularly like to go to that is more active

593
00:40:54,559 --> 00:40:57,320
Speaker 2: than others. Do you have sort of like a home

594
00:40:57,360 --> 00:40:59,000
Speaker 2: base of research.

595
00:41:00,840 --> 00:41:06,159
Speaker 1: Not a home base per se, But I've had very

596
00:41:06,199 --> 00:41:14,760
Speaker 1: interesting things happen both in western Pennsylvania, particularly at the

597
00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:21,559
Speaker 1: Allegheny National Forest, and then also in Florida in the Panhandle,

598
00:41:21,679 --> 00:41:25,280
Speaker 1: although well, I should say more than one place in Florida.

599
00:41:25,719 --> 00:41:29,679
Speaker 1: I typically spend winters in Florida, and so I've had

600
00:41:30,639 --> 00:41:35,880
Speaker 1: very interesting things happen in Florida as well. But I

601
00:41:35,920 --> 00:41:40,280
Speaker 1: do want to go back to Teleco because I had,

602
00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:43,599
Speaker 1: as I said, there was some very good activity there,

603
00:41:43,639 --> 00:41:47,719
Speaker 1: and that's in Tennessee. So I don't have one particular area.

604
00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:51,400
Speaker 1: I have several, and I'm sure that as time goes on,

605
00:41:51,559 --> 00:41:53,719
Speaker 1: I'll probably find more.

606
00:41:55,199 --> 00:41:59,760
Speaker 2: Is there one particular piece of evidence or experience that

607
00:41:59,800 --> 00:42:02,000
Speaker 2: you've had that really stands out in your mind as

608
00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:04,079
Speaker 2: your pinnacle achievement.

609
00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:08,559
Speaker 1: Well, I don't know if it's a pinnacle achievement. It's

610
00:42:08,639 --> 00:42:14,039
Speaker 1: probably a pinnacle failure on my part. I was in

611
00:42:14,639 --> 00:42:19,760
Speaker 1: Amighainy National Forest, and I pull a pretty big trailer.

612
00:42:19,800 --> 00:42:22,679
Speaker 1: When I go out, I've got a thirty three foot

613
00:42:22,760 --> 00:42:27,159
Speaker 1: toy hommer, and I carry an electric buggy with me

614
00:42:27,239 --> 00:42:30,039
Speaker 1: because I'm not able to really hike very far anymore.

615
00:42:30,800 --> 00:42:35,679
Speaker 1: And so anyway, we had a fire going and we

616
00:42:35,679 --> 00:42:41,199
Speaker 1: were sitting on one side of my camper. And I

617
00:42:41,239 --> 00:42:43,880
Speaker 1: don't know how to explain this, but we'll just use

618
00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:48,440
Speaker 1: directional like left and right. So if I was facing

619
00:42:48,519 --> 00:42:51,679
Speaker 1: my camper, which I was actually sitting with my back

620
00:42:51,719 --> 00:42:54,280
Speaker 1: to it, but let's say I was facing it off

621
00:42:54,360 --> 00:42:57,360
Speaker 1: to all the people that had gone out that night

622
00:42:57,800 --> 00:43:02,880
Speaker 1: to do investigations had gone down a like a fire

623
00:43:02,920 --> 00:43:07,079
Speaker 1: trail to my left, and they I had a radio

624
00:43:07,159 --> 00:43:10,519
Speaker 1: at base camp, and they were radioing me from time

625
00:43:10,559 --> 00:43:13,400
Speaker 1: to time, and there was one other guy there with me.

626
00:43:14,159 --> 00:43:16,960
Speaker 1: They had all gone to the left. One group had

627
00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:20,119
Speaker 1: gone down I would estimate a quarter mile, another group

628
00:43:20,159 --> 00:43:22,400
Speaker 1: about a half a mile down this fire trail, and

629
00:43:22,440 --> 00:43:27,719
Speaker 1: they were sitting and there was while this was in

630
00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:31,880
Speaker 1: a national forest, there was some private property to my

631
00:43:32,119 --> 00:43:36,159
Speaker 1: right and up the hillways and where we were at

632
00:43:36,320 --> 00:43:40,159
Speaker 1: it was gravel, so you could hear things moving around

633
00:43:40,199 --> 00:43:46,920
Speaker 1: in the gravel. And I heard footsteps coming down toward

634
00:43:47,119 --> 00:43:50,239
Speaker 1: from the way of the cabin from my right, toward

635
00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:53,400
Speaker 1: my camper, and I made the comment to the gentleman

636
00:43:53,440 --> 00:43:58,079
Speaker 1: I was with, I said, it sounds like somebody's walking down.

637
00:43:58,159 --> 00:44:00,440
Speaker 1: I bet some hunters had came up up to that

638
00:44:00,559 --> 00:44:03,119
Speaker 1: cabin and they're coming down here to see what we're doing,

639
00:44:04,079 --> 00:44:07,800
Speaker 1: and he agreed, and so a few minutes goes by,

640
00:44:08,079 --> 00:44:10,840
Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden, we start hearing what

641
00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:16,559
Speaker 1: people call samurai chatter. I don't really like that term

642
00:44:16,599 --> 00:44:21,280
Speaker 1: because I don't think it sounds anything like samurai, but nonetheless,

643
00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:27,159
Speaker 1: it is a chatter, and it sounded amazingly similar to

644
00:44:27,320 --> 00:44:31,400
Speaker 1: the recordings that were done known as the Sierra Sounds,

645
00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:38,039
Speaker 1: but it was virtually right. So it came from my

646
00:44:38,239 --> 00:44:41,719
Speaker 1: right and by the time we heard the chatter, it

647
00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:46,880
Speaker 1: was like they were right behind my camper, which was

648
00:44:47,159 --> 00:44:50,800
Speaker 1: probably from me to where I estimate they were. It

649
00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:54,960
Speaker 1: was definitely less than fifty feet, probably maybe only thirty.

650
00:44:56,119 --> 00:45:01,280
Speaker 1: And my failure was I set there and I listened

651
00:45:01,320 --> 00:45:05,760
Speaker 1: to this for probably a good twenty seconds or more.

652
00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:09,199
Speaker 1: And there were obviously two different voices. One was lower pitched,

653
00:45:09,239 --> 00:45:11,599
Speaker 1: the other was a little bit higher. They were both deep,

654
00:45:11,719 --> 00:45:15,519
Speaker 1: but one was way much deeper than the other, so

655
00:45:15,559 --> 00:45:19,159
Speaker 1: I'm assuming it was maybe a male female couple. I

656
00:45:19,159 --> 00:45:23,599
Speaker 1: don't know, but anyway, they were doing their chatter. And

657
00:45:23,800 --> 00:45:30,519
Speaker 1: then by the time I thought to turn my recorder on,

658
00:45:32,159 --> 00:45:36,480
Speaker 1: I literally the instant I hit the button to turn

659
00:45:36,559 --> 00:45:41,280
Speaker 1: it on and record. They stopped, and I don't know

660
00:45:41,400 --> 00:45:45,800
Speaker 1: if they somehow heard something although there was no click.

661
00:45:47,480 --> 00:45:51,599
Speaker 1: I don't know if they since EMF It's hard to say.

662
00:45:52,559 --> 00:45:56,320
Speaker 1: But anyway, they immediately stopped and we heard them walk

663
00:45:56,400 --> 00:45:59,400
Speaker 1: away through the gravel. Again, you could hear the crunch, crunch,

664
00:45:59,440 --> 00:46:06,360
Speaker 1: crunch they left, And that's probably the thing that stands

665
00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:11,960
Speaker 1: out in my mind as kind of the most impressive

666
00:46:12,039 --> 00:46:15,079
Speaker 1: thing that has happened to me. Now, the next morning,

667
00:46:15,159 --> 00:46:18,039
Speaker 1: when it got daylight, we did go out and look

668
00:46:18,119 --> 00:46:21,719
Speaker 1: for footprints, but you know, in gravel there were you

669
00:46:21,760 --> 00:46:25,960
Speaker 1: could see some impressions and some scrape marks, but definitely

670
00:46:26,039 --> 00:46:32,639
Speaker 1: no castable or recognizable, not even picture something you could

671
00:46:32,639 --> 00:46:36,960
Speaker 1: take pictures of for footprints. But that was a very

672
00:46:36,960 --> 00:46:40,199
Speaker 1: exciting thing that happened. And you know, somebody said, you know,

673
00:46:40,280 --> 00:46:42,960
Speaker 1: that was a once in a lifetime happening, and I

674
00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:45,119
Speaker 1: think that's probably true.

675
00:46:45,360 --> 00:46:47,559
Speaker 2: Did you have lights on in the camper and everything?

676
00:46:48,679 --> 00:46:51,559
Speaker 1: No, everything was dark. The only thing we had was

677
00:46:52,639 --> 00:46:56,119
Speaker 1: a fairly small fire going where we were sitting.

678
00:46:56,559 --> 00:47:02,079
Speaker 2: Wow, yeah, that would be pretty inner. And again, if

679
00:47:02,119 --> 00:47:05,800
Speaker 2: we're talking about the possibility of it being hunters or

680
00:47:05,880 --> 00:47:10,039
Speaker 2: humans or whatever. The idea of someone creeping up on

681
00:47:10,400 --> 00:47:17,079
Speaker 2: somebody's camper after dark like that, you tend to announce yourself,

682
00:47:17,119 --> 00:47:21,039
Speaker 2: you know, and let people know. I just again, it

683
00:47:21,079 --> 00:47:22,199
Speaker 2: doesn't really make sense.

684
00:47:23,280 --> 00:47:25,480
Speaker 1: That's what I would have expected, That's what I was

685
00:47:25,599 --> 00:47:29,480
Speaker 1: expecting prior to the chatter starting. I was expecting somebody

686
00:47:29,559 --> 00:47:32,519
Speaker 1: to say, hey, you know how you guys doing, or

687
00:47:32,599 --> 00:47:38,679
Speaker 1: you know something. But instead we got the very distinctive

688
00:47:38,840 --> 00:47:41,840
Speaker 1: sound that has been recorded, I think in more than

689
00:47:41,920 --> 00:47:45,960
Speaker 1: one instance, but definitely that's and you know, I made

690
00:47:46,000 --> 00:47:48,599
Speaker 1: the comment to the guy I was with later, I said,

691
00:47:49,280 --> 00:47:52,360
Speaker 1: you know what amazed me? And he agreed with this completely,

692
00:47:52,440 --> 00:47:56,559
Speaker 1: But I said, what amazed me was that it sounded

693
00:47:57,559 --> 00:48:04,079
Speaker 1: almost exactly like the Sierra sounds that were recorded twenty

694
00:48:04,119 --> 00:48:09,440
Speaker 1: five hundred miles away. And that was very surprising to

695
00:48:09,480 --> 00:48:13,440
Speaker 1: me because I would assume that, especially if these are

696
00:48:13,480 --> 00:48:17,079
Speaker 1: flesh and blood and they're scattered all over the United States,

697
00:48:17,639 --> 00:48:21,079
Speaker 1: that they would at least have different dialects, you know,

698
00:48:22,320 --> 00:48:25,159
Speaker 1: similar to what the Native Americans would have had years ago.

699
00:48:25,199 --> 00:48:28,920
Speaker 1: They had different languages, and some of their languages overlapped.

700
00:48:29,039 --> 00:48:34,719
Speaker 1: But you know, your East Coast Native Americans, I don't

701
00:48:34,760 --> 00:48:38,039
Speaker 1: think talked at all like the natives out on the

702
00:48:38,039 --> 00:48:41,679
Speaker 1: West coast, And so that was one of the things

703
00:48:41,719 --> 00:48:45,960
Speaker 1: that really surprised me, was the similarity in the way

704
00:48:46,000 --> 00:48:46,599
Speaker 1: it sounded.

705
00:48:47,559 --> 00:48:50,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was something that stood out to me, as

706
00:48:50,519 --> 00:48:53,199
Speaker 2: well as how you can go to all these different locations.

707
00:48:53,199 --> 00:48:56,840
Speaker 2: And I know that people have different opinions whenever it

708
00:48:56,840 --> 00:48:59,800
Speaker 2: comes to stick structures, and I know that we don't

709
00:48:59,840 --> 00:49:04,079
Speaker 2: have any proof that says bigfoot makes these sick structures.

710
00:49:04,480 --> 00:49:08,119
Speaker 2: But what I can tell you is regardless of where

711
00:49:08,159 --> 00:49:12,440
Speaker 2: you go, you find them in areas that are purported

712
00:49:12,480 --> 00:49:15,400
Speaker 2: to have bigfoot or that have all the right things

713
00:49:15,440 --> 00:49:18,360
Speaker 2: for bigfoot to be there. But the structures remain the

714
00:49:18,400 --> 00:49:22,320
Speaker 2: same no matter where you're at. They are the same designs.

715
00:49:22,360 --> 00:49:25,880
Speaker 2: And I always wondered, so are they these things being

716
00:49:25,960 --> 00:49:29,880
Speaker 2: taught and where they all one group at one time

717
00:49:29,880 --> 00:49:31,920
Speaker 2: to have that knowledge and moved it to different parts

718
00:49:31,960 --> 00:49:37,199
Speaker 2: of the country. Like the language thing, How does the

719
00:49:37,199 --> 00:49:39,440
Speaker 2: ones on the west coast speak the same language as

720
00:49:39,440 --> 00:49:41,239
Speaker 2: the ones on the East coast if they all weren't

721
00:49:41,320 --> 00:49:42,480
Speaker 2: the same at some point.

722
00:49:44,079 --> 00:49:49,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I have It's not my own theory. I've

723
00:49:50,000 --> 00:49:53,920
Speaker 1: heard other people say it as well, but I. As

724
00:49:54,039 --> 00:49:57,840
Speaker 1: time goes on, I have become more of the opinion

725
00:49:58,000 --> 00:50:02,440
Speaker 1: that these structures are also some form of language that

726
00:50:02,480 --> 00:50:06,280
Speaker 1: we haven't figured out how to read yet. But as

727
00:50:06,320 --> 00:50:08,960
Speaker 1: they build these structures, or they put you know, what

728
00:50:09,000 --> 00:50:14,400
Speaker 1: some people call glyphs, you know, they make certain patterns

729
00:50:14,440 --> 00:50:19,960
Speaker 1: with sticks and so forth, I think they are communicating

730
00:50:20,000 --> 00:50:23,119
Speaker 1: with each other somehow. You know. Some people say, well,

731
00:50:23,199 --> 00:50:28,519
Speaker 1: they might be warnings of territory or you know whatever.

732
00:50:28,760 --> 00:50:31,119
Speaker 1: I don't know what they are, but I do know

733
00:50:31,199 --> 00:50:35,719
Speaker 1: that there are very similar I just saw a friend

734
00:50:35,760 --> 00:50:40,639
Speaker 1: of mine had posted where he had taken a picture

735
00:50:41,000 --> 00:50:46,639
Speaker 1: of a stick pattern that he had found in the forest,

736
00:50:47,360 --> 00:50:52,519
Speaker 1: and a friend of his and mine also had also

737
00:50:52,880 --> 00:50:56,519
Speaker 1: found a stick structure and posted a picture. These two

738
00:50:56,639 --> 00:51:01,480
Speaker 1: pictures were taken about ten miles apart, but they looked identical.

739
00:51:02,440 --> 00:51:06,599
Speaker 1: So the odds of that happening randomly, you know, some

740
00:51:06,639 --> 00:51:09,480
Speaker 1: people say, well, the sticks just happen to fall that way,

741
00:51:09,920 --> 00:51:12,440
Speaker 1: all right, Well, how do you get two patterns, and

742
00:51:12,480 --> 00:51:16,159
Speaker 1: these were fairly complex patterns. How do you get two

743
00:51:16,199 --> 00:51:21,480
Speaker 1: patterns ten miles apart that look exactly the same, you know,

744
00:51:21,840 --> 00:51:25,079
Speaker 1: barring that some person is going around doing that. But

745
00:51:26,880 --> 00:51:29,719
Speaker 1: then I say, okay, why what would be their purpose

746
00:51:29,800 --> 00:51:35,639
Speaker 1: in doing that, you know, and doing it out in

747
00:51:35,679 --> 00:51:38,239
Speaker 1: the middle of the woods where they don't know if

748
00:51:38,239 --> 00:51:41,719
Speaker 1: anybody is necessarily going to find it or not? Right,

749
00:51:42,000 --> 00:51:45,199
Speaker 1: and certainly, what are the odds of if they're doing it,

750
00:51:45,280 --> 00:51:48,679
Speaker 1: if some person is doing it? Okay, they have to

751
00:51:48,760 --> 00:51:53,199
Speaker 1: think that somebody else is going to find these two

752
00:51:53,239 --> 00:51:58,760
Speaker 1: structures ten miles apart and think, oh, that's just like

753
00:51:58,800 --> 00:52:05,119
Speaker 1: the one I saw the other day. So it's it's

754
00:52:05,159 --> 00:52:07,480
Speaker 1: another one of those questions, you know, what are they?

755
00:52:07,920 --> 00:52:12,599
Speaker 1: But I think they're definitely a communications system of some sort.

756
00:52:12,920 --> 00:52:14,119
Speaker 1: I don't know what kind.

757
00:52:14,360 --> 00:52:19,159
Speaker 2: I've experienced something similar where we were investigating a location

758
00:52:19,360 --> 00:52:23,920
Speaker 2: where these things were reportedly visiting a dumpster behind a

759
00:52:23,960 --> 00:52:28,480
Speaker 2: restaurant here in Oklahoma, and on the backside of this

760
00:52:28,559 --> 00:52:33,800
Speaker 2: dumpster were some peculiar markings made by something with a

761
00:52:33,880 --> 00:52:38,280
Speaker 2: hand and fingers. Again, can't say that it wasn't human,

762
00:52:38,840 --> 00:52:42,800
Speaker 2: but it was odd. But one of the markings in

763
00:52:42,840 --> 00:52:46,760
Speaker 2: particular that was repeated a couple different times, it looked

764
00:52:46,800 --> 00:52:51,000
Speaker 2: like something took three or four fingers. And if you

765
00:52:51,079 --> 00:52:55,079
Speaker 2: can just imagine someone drawing the number seven with all

766
00:52:55,679 --> 00:52:59,920
Speaker 2: the digits at the same time. Yeah, this was post

767
00:53:00,079 --> 00:53:04,440
Speaker 2: it online, and a researcher who at the time was

768
00:53:04,480 --> 00:53:08,639
Speaker 2: with the bfro Stan Courtney up in Illinois, I believe,

769
00:53:09,239 --> 00:53:13,079
Speaker 2: contacted me and had a photograph of the same exact

770
00:53:13,159 --> 00:53:17,960
Speaker 2: pattern that was left on the window of his vehicle

771
00:53:18,760 --> 00:53:21,000
Speaker 2: whenever he had parked in an area and gone out,

772
00:53:21,079 --> 00:53:24,159
Speaker 2: investigated and come back. It was on the driver's side window.

773
00:53:24,599 --> 00:53:26,760
Speaker 2: Oh wow, he sent me a photo of that. You know,

774
00:53:27,280 --> 00:53:31,360
Speaker 2: so again the same marking showing up could have been

775
00:53:31,400 --> 00:53:35,400
Speaker 2: a person in both scenarios, I guess, but again very

776
00:53:35,400 --> 00:53:39,320
Speaker 2: odd and the similarity, I mean, it looked like the

777
00:53:39,400 --> 00:53:40,239
Speaker 2: exact same thing.

778
00:53:40,880 --> 00:53:42,320
Speaker 1: Yeah.

779
00:53:42,400 --> 00:53:44,880
Speaker 2: I started to wonder if the stick structures and things

780
00:53:44,920 --> 00:53:48,840
Speaker 2: like that aren't of a spiritual nature instead of communication.

781
00:53:50,800 --> 00:53:55,400
Speaker 1: Well, that could be, But again I think if it is,

782
00:53:55,639 --> 00:54:01,079
Speaker 1: then you know, there's still commune indicating in a way

783
00:54:01,159 --> 00:54:06,079
Speaker 1: they're saying, okay, you know, here's here's our spiritual symbol,

784
00:54:06,400 --> 00:54:08,800
Speaker 1: you know, from my literal way of saying it. And

785
00:54:08,840 --> 00:54:12,679
Speaker 1: then other bigfoot come along and see it and they say, oh,

786
00:54:12,800 --> 00:54:14,840
Speaker 1: you know, they're it's kind of like us. You know,

787
00:54:14,880 --> 00:54:19,000
Speaker 1: if we see across we relate it with Christianity. If

788
00:54:19,039 --> 00:54:22,039
Speaker 1: we see the start of David, we relate it to Judaism,

789
00:54:22,239 --> 00:54:26,840
Speaker 1: and so maybe there are different spiritual beliefs and they're

790
00:54:26,960 --> 00:54:31,599
Speaker 1: using these symbols to depict that just like just like

791
00:54:31,719 --> 00:54:35,039
Speaker 1: humans do. Again, I try to It may be wrong

792
00:54:35,119 --> 00:54:38,960
Speaker 1: of me, but I oftentimes relate things they do or

793
00:54:39,000 --> 00:54:44,320
Speaker 1: compare things they do to things humans do, and try

794
00:54:44,360 --> 00:54:48,280
Speaker 1: to look at the purpose or try to figure out

795
00:54:48,320 --> 00:54:52,360
Speaker 1: an answer based on that. Now I might be completely

796
00:54:52,400 --> 00:54:55,079
Speaker 1: wrong in doing that, it might not have anything to

797
00:54:55,119 --> 00:54:58,239
Speaker 1: do with that, but at least that's the best way

798
00:54:58,280 --> 00:55:00,679
Speaker 1: I've come up with to try to maybe get some

799
00:55:00,760 --> 00:55:02,079
Speaker 1: answers to things.

800
00:55:03,000 --> 00:55:06,840
Speaker 2: This is something that we didn't really talk about previously,

801
00:55:06,960 --> 00:55:09,679
Speaker 2: but you had mentioned it and we went down some

802
00:55:09,719 --> 00:55:13,360
Speaker 2: other avenues, but I wanted to bring it up. In

803
00:55:13,400 --> 00:55:18,000
Speaker 2: the worlds of Bigfoot and the paranormal and UFOs, aliens

804
00:55:18,039 --> 00:55:21,360
Speaker 2: and all that. I don't know if it's a new thing,

805
00:55:21,440 --> 00:55:25,320
Speaker 2: but it seems to be growing in popularity that some

806
00:55:25,440 --> 00:55:29,639
Speaker 2: people theorize that all these things are kind of one

807
00:55:29,679 --> 00:55:32,480
Speaker 2: and the same and they're all demonic in nature.

808
00:55:33,199 --> 00:55:33,400
Speaker 1: Right.

809
00:55:34,280 --> 00:55:36,519
Speaker 2: I know that you have a little bit of history

810
00:55:37,559 --> 00:55:41,400
Speaker 2: in the area of religion. What are your thoughts on

811
00:55:41,440 --> 00:55:43,880
Speaker 2: the possibility of Bigfoot being a demon.

812
00:55:45,760 --> 00:55:50,199
Speaker 1: Well, I think it's possible. As time goes on. Again,

813
00:55:51,880 --> 00:55:55,320
Speaker 1: at one time I thought it was probable. I've kind

814
00:55:55,320 --> 00:56:00,880
Speaker 1: of moved away from that. I don't really know. It's

815
00:56:01,039 --> 00:56:09,719
Speaker 1: definitely to me a possibility, and I don't want to,

816
00:56:10,440 --> 00:56:12,199
Speaker 1: you know, as you said, go too far down the

817
00:56:12,599 --> 00:56:18,880
Speaker 1: rabbit hole. But they they could all be that, and

818
00:56:19,199 --> 00:56:23,400
Speaker 1: there's no way for us to really know. I guess

819
00:56:23,440 --> 00:56:26,840
Speaker 1: the reason that I think it may not be the

820
00:56:26,840 --> 00:56:33,719
Speaker 1: case is what we talked about earlier, that you know, theoretically,

821
00:56:33,760 --> 00:56:38,559
Speaker 1: if they were demonic, they would all be all be bad,

822
00:56:39,719 --> 00:56:42,239
Speaker 1: they would all be trying to do harm to people,

823
00:56:42,840 --> 00:56:46,079
Speaker 1: and that doesn't seem to be the case. Now. With

824
00:56:46,239 --> 00:56:51,519
Speaker 1: that said, I don't think that all people that are

825
00:56:51,599 --> 00:57:02,559
Speaker 1: possessed by demons are necessarily obvious in their demonic nature.

826
00:57:02,800 --> 00:57:11,000
Speaker 1: They sometimes are just people that collect information, so to speak,

827
00:57:11,039 --> 00:57:15,360
Speaker 1: and pass it on. And again, I'm trying to be

828
00:57:15,519 --> 00:57:18,039
Speaker 1: kind of broad here, and I don't want to get

829
00:57:18,079 --> 00:57:22,320
Speaker 1: too far down the hole. But like I said, I

830
00:57:22,360 --> 00:57:27,079
Speaker 1: think it's possible. I don't know that. I think it's probable,

831
00:57:27,920 --> 00:57:31,000
Speaker 1: But on the other hand, I really have no idea

832
00:57:32,079 --> 00:57:34,199
Speaker 1: what they are at this point. I guess one of

833
00:57:34,199 --> 00:57:37,599
Speaker 1: the things I would say that I think makes it

834
00:57:37,840 --> 00:57:42,440
Speaker 1: a possibility is their ability, according to eyewitness reports, to

835
00:57:42,679 --> 00:57:48,519
Speaker 1: do things that seem supernatural, as in appearing or disappearing,

836
00:57:48,840 --> 00:57:54,960
Speaker 1: or mind speak and a sense of supernatural. And these

837
00:57:55,159 --> 00:58:03,360
Speaker 1: are things that could be attributed to something that is spiritual,

838
00:58:03,599 --> 00:58:09,400
Speaker 1: i e. Demonic in nature. So that's I guess my

839
00:58:10,920 --> 00:58:12,320
Speaker 1: primary thoughts on that.

840
00:58:13,320 --> 00:58:18,159
Speaker 2: Have you encountered outside of Bigfoot? I mean, what you

841
00:58:18,239 --> 00:58:19,320
Speaker 2: believe was a demon?

842
00:58:24,280 --> 00:58:28,639
Speaker 1: I will say that I believe that there are people

843
00:58:29,239 --> 00:58:37,000
Speaker 1: that are possessed who don't demonstrate that in the sense

844
00:58:37,119 --> 00:58:43,679
Speaker 1: of what people think in like, you know, you're what

845
00:58:43,840 --> 00:58:47,440
Speaker 1: was the movie The Exorcist? So heads spinning around, phone

846
00:58:47,480 --> 00:58:51,039
Speaker 1: coming out of the mouth. Yeah, I don't. I've never

847
00:58:51,079 --> 00:58:56,440
Speaker 1: seen anything like that. But I will say that I

848
00:58:56,559 --> 00:59:02,280
Speaker 1: believe that I have been around people who were possessed,

849
00:59:02,920 --> 00:59:08,480
Speaker 1: but their purpose of possession was simply to collect information.

850
00:59:09,639 --> 00:59:14,239
Speaker 1: And this is typically collecting that information from within a church,

851
00:59:15,239 --> 00:59:18,840
Speaker 1: to keep an eye on what's going on. And I

852
00:59:18,920 --> 00:59:23,199
Speaker 1: believe that because as a Christian, I believe that Satan

853
00:59:23,559 --> 00:59:28,840
Speaker 1: focuses his primary First of all, Satan isn't everywhere Satan

854
00:59:29,000 --> 00:59:32,960
Speaker 1: is not omnipresent like God is, so Satan has to

855
00:59:33,039 --> 00:59:37,440
Speaker 1: have a way to keep track of what's going on,

856
00:59:37,679 --> 00:59:42,880
Speaker 1: so he knows where to focus his primary efforts, and

857
00:59:43,079 --> 00:59:49,000
Speaker 1: he does that through demons that possess humans. We know

858
00:59:49,119 --> 00:59:52,360
Speaker 1: that from the Bible. The Bible talks about demon possession

859
00:59:52,440 --> 01:00:00,679
Speaker 1: and as instances of Jesus casting demons out, he uses

860
01:00:00,760 --> 01:00:05,960
Speaker 1: those demon possessed people, oftentimes to collect information and relay

861
01:00:05,960 --> 01:00:11,559
Speaker 1: that information back to him. And that's the closest I

862
01:00:11,599 --> 01:00:16,760
Speaker 1: can say I've ever came to demonic activity. I've never

863
01:00:16,840 --> 01:00:22,199
Speaker 1: been involved in a exorcism, although I can tell you

864
01:00:22,239 --> 01:00:27,280
Speaker 1: there are people outside of the Catholic Church that do exorcisms,

865
01:00:28,440 --> 01:00:30,760
Speaker 1: and I have talked to some of those people, and

866
01:00:30,880 --> 01:00:35,039
Speaker 1: their advice to me has always been to stay away

867
01:00:35,079 --> 01:00:39,239
Speaker 1: from it unless you want to become fully immersed as

868
01:00:39,320 --> 01:00:44,559
Speaker 1: they are. You don't want to get involved because once

869
01:00:44,639 --> 01:00:51,440
Speaker 1: you become involved, then they will start attacking you. And

870
01:00:51,480 --> 01:00:55,239
Speaker 1: of course we saw that examples of that in the Exorcist,

871
01:00:55,280 --> 01:00:59,480
Speaker 1: where the Catholic priest that was trying to do the

872
01:00:59,519 --> 01:01:04,920
Speaker 1: exercist would be attacked personally, physical harm done, thrown across

873
01:01:04,960 --> 01:01:08,920
Speaker 1: the room, you know, whatever so they said, don't get

874
01:01:08,920 --> 01:01:12,639
Speaker 1: involved unless you want to become fully involved, and so

875
01:01:12,760 --> 01:01:14,679
Speaker 1: I never really got very involved.

876
01:01:15,280 --> 01:01:18,199
Speaker 2: See that's part of the thing that bothers me is

877
01:01:19,840 --> 01:01:23,440
Speaker 2: there are similarities between some of the stuff that goes

878
01:01:23,480 --> 01:01:27,519
Speaker 2: on in the Bigfoot world and how demons are depicted,

879
01:01:29,199 --> 01:01:32,039
Speaker 2: you know, and we joked at the beginning about the

880
01:01:32,039 --> 01:01:35,159
Speaker 2: Bigfoot curse, but it's something that you become fully aware

881
01:01:35,199 --> 01:01:37,360
Speaker 2: of whenever you get involved in this. And then you

882
01:01:37,440 --> 01:01:43,039
Speaker 2: also hear stories about people oftentimes starting to experience activity

883
01:01:43,079 --> 01:01:45,800
Speaker 2: at their home after they start investigating and going out

884
01:01:45,800 --> 01:01:51,000
Speaker 2: in the field, these things following them, and it has

885
01:01:51,920 --> 01:01:57,360
Speaker 2: ruined lives. It absolutely has ruined some lives. So there's

886
01:01:57,400 --> 01:01:59,519
Speaker 2: just some interesting similarities.

887
01:01:58,880 --> 01:01:59,320
Speaker 1: Here in there.

888
01:01:59,320 --> 01:02:01,480
Speaker 2: So I was just curious about your opinion on it.

889
01:02:02,559 --> 01:02:06,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, no, there are similarities. And I'm aware as

890
01:02:06,440 --> 01:02:10,039
Speaker 1: well of people who have had them follow them home,

891
01:02:10,320 --> 01:02:15,760
Speaker 1: and you know, they have said, well, the only way

892
01:02:15,760 --> 01:02:17,960
Speaker 1: that they could do that, the only way they would

893
01:02:18,000 --> 01:02:21,440
Speaker 1: know because many in some of these instances, the people

894
01:02:21,559 --> 01:02:28,079
Speaker 1: lived twenty thirty forty miles from their research area and

895
01:02:28,199 --> 01:02:30,960
Speaker 1: yet they were followed home, and they said the only

896
01:02:31,000 --> 01:02:34,679
Speaker 1: way that could happen was if they were somehow spiritual

897
01:02:34,719 --> 01:02:38,360
Speaker 1: in nature, because they would have to be able to

898
01:02:38,960 --> 01:02:47,559
Speaker 1: know where you were without actually physically being there. Right,

899
01:02:48,639 --> 01:02:51,760
Speaker 1: So I have heard the same things, and I think that,

900
01:02:52,400 --> 01:02:54,360
Speaker 1: you know, I have no reason to think that people

901
01:02:54,400 --> 01:02:57,400
Speaker 1: saying that were anything but truthful.

902
01:02:58,719 --> 01:03:03,760
Speaker 2: You mentioned orbs. Have you experienced any other phenomenon outside

903
01:03:03,760 --> 01:03:06,960
Speaker 2: of Bigfoot in the orbs, ghosts or UFOs or anything

904
01:03:07,000 --> 01:03:07,519
Speaker 2: like that.

905
01:03:09,280 --> 01:03:14,039
Speaker 1: Not personal. Yeah, I've taken some reports from people of rakes,

906
01:03:15,000 --> 01:03:18,480
Speaker 1: and you know, for anybody out there that's not familiar

907
01:03:18,559 --> 01:03:20,840
Speaker 1: with the rake, the best way I can tell people

908
01:03:20,920 --> 01:03:24,079
Speaker 1: to find out what they are is to type in

909
01:03:24,719 --> 01:03:27,039
Speaker 1: R A K E and a search engine. Only you

910
01:03:27,119 --> 01:03:29,400
Speaker 1: have to do more than that, because otherwise it's going

911
01:03:29,440 --> 01:03:33,639
Speaker 1: to take you to home depot. But put in rake

912
01:03:33,760 --> 01:03:37,480
Speaker 1: and then the word cryptid like cryp t I D

913
01:03:38,920 --> 01:03:42,599
Speaker 1: or rake entity something like that, and it will bring

914
01:03:42,679 --> 01:03:46,800
Speaker 1: up pictures that people have taken of rakes, as well

915
01:03:46,840 --> 01:03:52,440
Speaker 1: as drawings and depictions. But I've had several reports. I've

916
01:03:52,440 --> 01:03:56,960
Speaker 1: seen pictures. I saw a picture a year or so

917
01:03:57,000 --> 01:04:00,320
Speaker 1: ago of a rake that was captured in Pennsylvania on

918
01:04:00,360 --> 01:04:06,760
Speaker 1: a trail cam. So rake would be the other thing. Now,

919
01:04:06,800 --> 01:04:11,719
Speaker 1: as far as things that I've heard, and this is

920
01:04:11,800 --> 01:04:14,440
Speaker 1: back to Bigfoot related, I will say that I was

921
01:04:14,480 --> 01:04:19,320
Speaker 1: on an expedition in the Florida Panhandle, the Apalachic Colon

922
01:04:19,440 --> 01:04:22,639
Speaker 1: National Forest, and there was a lady in the group

923
01:04:22,800 --> 01:04:29,199
Speaker 1: and she could do amazing howls. She had been trained

924
01:04:29,280 --> 01:04:33,840
Speaker 1: in voice and she could just do amazing howls. And

925
01:04:35,119 --> 01:04:38,440
Speaker 1: so one night I was not with her, I was

926
01:04:38,480 --> 01:04:42,840
Speaker 1: with some other people, but we heard what we pretty

927
01:04:42,840 --> 01:04:46,920
Speaker 1: well knew was her do a howl. But the odd

928
01:04:46,920 --> 01:04:50,800
Speaker 1: thing was, over the next five to ten minutes, we

929
01:04:50,880 --> 01:04:57,360
Speaker 1: heard three more howls come from different directions, and at

930
01:04:57,400 --> 01:05:00,360
Speaker 1: one point, I think after the second one, it had

931
01:05:00,400 --> 01:05:03,880
Speaker 1: came from the direction towards our base camp, and I said, oh,

932
01:05:03,920 --> 01:05:06,280
Speaker 1: somebody at base camp just did a reply to her,

933
01:05:06,320 --> 01:05:10,920
Speaker 1: and they sounded just like her. And then we heard

934
01:05:10,960 --> 01:05:14,800
Speaker 1: two more and they were from yet other directions, and so,

935
01:05:16,239 --> 01:05:18,239
Speaker 1: you know, a while later, we all got back to

936
01:05:18,280 --> 01:05:21,159
Speaker 1: base camp and we're talking, and then her group came

937
01:05:21,199 --> 01:05:24,079
Speaker 1: in and we said, you know, wow, you know, those

938
01:05:24,079 --> 01:05:27,199
Speaker 1: were some good howls we heard, and she said, I

939
01:05:27,239 --> 01:05:31,039
Speaker 1: only did one. She said those other three were replies

940
01:05:31,800 --> 01:05:35,360
Speaker 1: and they were not from anybody in our group, and

941
01:05:35,400 --> 01:05:38,280
Speaker 1: they sounded just like her. They were the back to

942
01:05:38,360 --> 01:05:41,559
Speaker 1: the mimicking. I mean, they sounded exactly like her howl,

943
01:05:42,159 --> 01:05:45,519
Speaker 1: but from different directions. And the odds I think again,

944
01:05:46,119 --> 01:05:52,159
Speaker 1: this was at probably midnight one am timeframe. The odds

945
01:05:52,320 --> 01:05:56,880
Speaker 1: of other humans being out in the Appalachic Cola National

946
01:05:56,920 --> 01:06:02,159
Speaker 1: Forest that were able to replicate her howl, the odds

947
01:06:02,239 --> 01:06:07,840
Speaker 1: of that are almost zero. And so that was that

948
01:06:08,000 --> 01:06:12,800
Speaker 1: was definitely a very interesting evening. And that was on

949
01:06:12,920 --> 01:06:16,199
Speaker 1: the last night of this was not a BFRO expedition,

950
01:06:16,239 --> 01:06:18,639
Speaker 1: but it was a private group that had gotten together.

951
01:06:19,400 --> 01:06:23,519
Speaker 1: And then and then the other instance was in a

952
01:06:23,679 --> 01:06:27,800
Speaker 1: green swamp in Florida, which is down in central Florida

953
01:06:27,880 --> 01:06:34,159
Speaker 1: between Orlando and Tampa. And I had been out, we

954
01:06:34,280 --> 01:06:37,840
Speaker 1: had done some night investigation and I got back and

955
01:06:37,880 --> 01:06:41,360
Speaker 1: I was inside my camper, and you know, you you

956
01:06:41,440 --> 01:06:43,840
Speaker 1: asked a question earlier, and I had forgotten this one

957
01:06:44,199 --> 01:06:48,320
Speaker 1: about whether I ever felt like in danger at all.

958
01:06:49,119 --> 01:06:53,119
Speaker 1: This night probably fell into that category because we had

959
01:06:53,159 --> 01:06:58,440
Speaker 1: gotten back, I was inside my camper and something came

960
01:06:58,559 --> 01:07:02,599
Speaker 1: up outside my camp. Now I guess it could have

961
01:07:02,639 --> 01:07:05,199
Speaker 1: been a wild animal of some kind, but if it was,

962
01:07:05,280 --> 01:07:08,280
Speaker 1: it was something I had never heard anything like this before,

963
01:07:09,039 --> 01:07:14,000
Speaker 1: but it was making the most you know, go back

964
01:07:14,000 --> 01:07:17,320
Speaker 1: to our demonic thing ungodly sounds. I mean, it was

965
01:07:18,760 --> 01:07:23,840
Speaker 1: a cross between growls and screams, and it literally sounded

966
01:07:23,880 --> 01:07:26,960
Speaker 1: like it was right outside my camper. And I have

967
01:07:27,079 --> 01:07:32,159
Speaker 1: to say that, as much as I want to in

968
01:07:32,159 --> 01:07:35,360
Speaker 1: some ways see one of these up close, that particular

969
01:07:35,480 --> 01:07:39,320
Speaker 1: night I was I was afraid to go outside. I

970
01:07:39,960 --> 01:07:43,000
Speaker 1: didn't want to open my camper door. I didn't have

971
01:07:43,760 --> 01:07:48,199
Speaker 1: a light. My flashlight had broken earlier that same day,

972
01:07:49,760 --> 01:07:54,960
Speaker 1: and I didn't feel comfortable opening my camper door and

973
01:07:55,360 --> 01:07:57,800
Speaker 1: going out into the dark to see what it was.

974
01:07:58,320 --> 01:08:01,559
Speaker 2: Well, before we get off here, do you want to

975
01:08:01,559 --> 01:08:04,199
Speaker 2: talk a little bit about CSI yeah.

976
01:08:04,079 --> 01:08:06,760
Speaker 1: That'd be great. I appreciate the opportunity to do that.

977
01:08:07,000 --> 01:08:16,039
Speaker 1: I've organized a new organization. It's Cryptid Search Investigations, and

978
01:08:17,640 --> 01:08:21,520
Speaker 1: my goal in this is for it to eventually be nationwide,

979
01:08:22,439 --> 01:08:26,079
Speaker 1: just like the BFRO. And the reason that I wanted

980
01:08:26,119 --> 01:08:33,039
Speaker 1: to do this is I want to do several things,

981
01:08:33,079 --> 01:08:35,159
Speaker 1: I guess, and before I go on with that, I

982
01:08:35,199 --> 01:08:39,279
Speaker 1: guess I should finish. The organization is a nonprofit. It

983
01:08:39,399 --> 01:08:43,000
Speaker 1: is currently authorized as a five to OHO one C three,

984
01:08:43,600 --> 01:08:48,000
Speaker 1: so any money that people might donate will be tax deductible.

985
01:08:49,520 --> 01:08:54,800
Speaker 1: I have some expeditions planned, none are set in stone yet,

986
01:08:54,880 --> 01:09:02,560
Speaker 1: but hopefully one in the Allighaneny National Forest Area in

987
01:09:02,680 --> 01:09:08,000
Speaker 1: October early October, and then late October one in South

988
01:09:08,039 --> 01:09:11,880
Speaker 1: Carolina in I always have trouble say in the name

989
01:09:11,920 --> 01:09:16,279
Speaker 1: of this place, it's oconey, I think state Park, it's

990
01:09:16,359 --> 01:09:20,159
Speaker 1: o CEO n ee uh. And so we're going to

991
01:09:20,239 --> 01:09:25,239
Speaker 1: be there late October, and if people are interested in

992
01:09:25,279 --> 01:09:32,039
Speaker 1: those they can My email for the organization is cryptid

993
01:09:32,159 --> 01:09:39,520
Speaker 1: search at my Yahoo dot com and then they can

994
01:09:39,560 --> 01:09:42,520
Speaker 1: email me for information about that. But currently I'm not

995
01:09:43,640 --> 01:09:46,840
Speaker 1: having a set amount of money the way that BFRORO does.

996
01:09:47,239 --> 01:09:51,399
Speaker 1: I'm asking for donations from people. I feel like if

997
01:09:51,439 --> 01:09:54,159
Speaker 1: people that don't have the money to go on a

998
01:09:54,239 --> 01:09:59,119
Speaker 1: BFRO expedition want to be involved, this is a way

999
01:09:59,159 --> 01:10:02,000
Speaker 1: for them to get in. And that's part of why

1000
01:10:02,000 --> 01:10:03,640
Speaker 1: I wanted it to be a five oh one C

1001
01:10:03,880 --> 01:10:07,840
Speaker 1: three so that donations are tax deductible. So for those

1002
01:10:07,880 --> 01:10:11,680
Speaker 1: people that can afford to make a donation of you know,

1003
01:10:11,720 --> 01:10:17,279
Speaker 1: a sizable donation, it will be tax deductible for them.

1004
01:10:17,079 --> 01:10:19,199
Speaker 1: I'm trying to think what else I should add to this.

1005
01:10:19,399 --> 01:10:22,479
Speaker 1: I don't have my website up and going yet, but

1006
01:10:22,560 --> 01:10:25,199
Speaker 1: it should be within the next week or two and

1007
01:10:25,279 --> 01:10:29,119
Speaker 1: it will be at cryptidseearch dot org. I have a

1008
01:10:29,199 --> 01:10:32,640
Speaker 1: Facebook page that's called cryptied Search. Now there is a

1009
01:10:32,720 --> 01:10:37,399
Speaker 1: space in between cryptied and search on the Facebook page.

1010
01:10:37,520 --> 01:10:40,439
Speaker 1: And I'm hoping at some point to get a podcast

1011
01:10:40,520 --> 01:10:43,960
Speaker 1: of my own going. And I have a YouTube channel

1012
01:10:44,079 --> 01:10:48,560
Speaker 1: currently and Rumble called cryptied Search, so people can just

1013
01:10:48,600 --> 01:10:51,920
Speaker 1: start looking for crypted search. The other reason I wanted

1014
01:10:51,920 --> 01:10:56,199
Speaker 1: it to be a nonprofit is so that when I'm gone,

1015
01:10:56,359 --> 01:11:03,479
Speaker 1: it will continue. So currently the organizations, now I shouldn't

1016
01:11:03,520 --> 01:11:05,680
Speaker 1: say all of them there are I did find out

1017
01:11:05,680 --> 01:11:10,600
Speaker 1: there is at least one other nonprofit Bigfoot organization. But

1018
01:11:10,880 --> 01:11:14,359
Speaker 1: let's just if I can, I'll just use bfro and

1019
01:11:14,359 --> 01:11:18,359
Speaker 1: as an example that is formed as an LLC. And

1020
01:11:19,960 --> 01:11:25,680
Speaker 1: you know, when the current person in charge passes away,

1021
01:11:26,800 --> 01:11:29,600
Speaker 1: maybe a long time, we hope, But when that happens,

1022
01:11:31,399 --> 01:11:35,000
Speaker 1: there's as far as I know, there's no succession there.

1023
01:11:35,680 --> 01:11:40,000
Speaker 1: With CSI, it will have a succession in that it's

1024
01:11:40,039 --> 01:11:43,199
Speaker 1: a nonprofit. We have a board of directors and they

1025
01:11:43,279 --> 01:11:46,079
Speaker 1: will simply get I'm the president right now, they'll get

1026
01:11:46,079 --> 01:11:49,920
Speaker 1: another president. Things will just continue on. And that was

1027
01:11:50,840 --> 01:11:55,039
Speaker 1: part of my goal in the organization was to have

1028
01:11:55,119 --> 01:11:58,319
Speaker 1: something that would continue. People can definitely email me if

1029
01:11:58,359 --> 01:12:01,319
Speaker 1: they want more information, or they can follow the Facebook

1030
01:12:01,359 --> 01:12:02,119
Speaker 1: group as well.

1031
01:12:02,960 --> 01:12:06,439
Speaker 2: And I will just say an organization like this is

1032
01:12:07,119 --> 01:12:11,520
Speaker 2: first off, a great idea, especially the nonprofit aspect of it.

1033
01:12:12,479 --> 01:12:15,880
Speaker 2: But for people looking to get their feet wet or

1034
01:12:15,920 --> 01:12:19,119
Speaker 2: to get involved in this, these type of audings are

1035
01:12:19,159 --> 01:12:23,239
Speaker 2: the way to go. This is a great opportunity to

1036
01:12:23,520 --> 01:12:27,359
Speaker 2: meet bigfooters that maybe have some experience, and meet other

1037
01:12:27,439 --> 01:12:29,840
Speaker 2: people that are kind of new to it and everything,

1038
01:12:30,399 --> 01:12:34,319
Speaker 2: and go out there with like minded people and learn

1039
01:12:34,399 --> 01:12:37,079
Speaker 2: things and experience this for yourself.

1040
01:12:37,439 --> 01:12:41,159
Speaker 1: Right. We are going to develop as time goes on,

1041
01:12:41,359 --> 01:12:49,479
Speaker 1: specific scientific experiments and use them to help further the understanding.

1042
01:12:49,560 --> 01:12:52,920
Speaker 1: And by that I mean I can't say what any

1043
01:12:52,960 --> 01:12:56,720
Speaker 1: of these are yet, but I have some PhD scientists

1044
01:12:56,760 --> 01:12:59,960
Speaker 1: that are going to work with me to help develop

1045
01:13:00,239 --> 01:13:05,319
Speaker 1: experiments that we can do to further our understanding. And now,

1046
01:13:05,359 --> 01:13:08,760
Speaker 1: the average person that comes on an expedition does not

1047
01:13:08,960 --> 01:13:11,560
Speaker 1: have to be involved in that if they don't want

1048
01:13:11,600 --> 01:13:14,720
Speaker 1: to be, but if they choose to be they can,

1049
01:13:15,520 --> 01:13:20,199
Speaker 1: and that's another thing that you know. I feel like

1050
01:13:21,920 --> 01:13:25,760
Speaker 1: there are some other organizations I think out there the

1051
01:13:25,800 --> 01:13:28,800
Speaker 1: Olympic Project comes to mind, but that are doing some

1052
01:13:28,920 --> 01:13:35,600
Speaker 1: actual scientific experimentation. But I think the organizations doing that

1053
01:13:35,680 --> 01:13:38,840
Speaker 1: are pretty few and far between most people that most

1054
01:13:38,920 --> 01:13:46,840
Speaker 1: organizations are just doing expeditions, and they provide experiential evidence,

1055
01:13:47,159 --> 01:13:50,399
Speaker 1: meaning people's experiences. Like you and I have been talking.

1056
01:13:50,479 --> 01:13:54,600
Speaker 1: My experiences are experiential, but I want to get to

1057
01:13:54,640 --> 01:13:59,000
Speaker 1: the point where we actually have some scientific information going

1058
01:13:59,039 --> 01:14:06,079
Speaker 1: on that will allow more understanding of what's going on

1059
01:14:06,279 --> 01:14:10,119
Speaker 1: out there in the bigfoot world. The orbs, the dog men,

1060
01:14:10,279 --> 01:14:13,680
Speaker 1: the you know, on and on and on, rakes and

1061
01:14:14,920 --> 01:14:18,119
Speaker 1: pug widgees and you name it. We want we want

1062
01:14:18,159 --> 01:14:20,039
Speaker 1: more information on all of this stuff.

1063
01:14:21,760 --> 01:14:24,760
Speaker 2: Mark, thanks for joining me. Thanks for sharing your experiences

1064
01:14:24,760 --> 01:14:27,800
Speaker 2: and your stories. I've thoroughly enjoyed it, my friend, and

1065
01:14:27,840 --> 01:14:31,560
Speaker 2: I wish you the best of luck with CSI all right, well.

1066
01:14:31,560 --> 01:14:35,079
Speaker 1: I appreciate that, and hopefully you and I can stay

1067
01:14:35,079 --> 01:14:37,920
Speaker 1: in contact and talk about some of these things further.

1068
01:14:38,279 --> 01:14:43,079
Speaker 2: Absolutely, if you've had your own encounter with bigfoot or

1069
01:14:43,079 --> 01:14:45,560
Speaker 2: something else you can't explain send me an email at

1070
01:14:45,560 --> 01:14:48,880
Speaker 2: Bigfoot Crossroads at gmail dot com. Check out the website

1071
01:14:48,880 --> 01:14:52,199
Speaker 2: Bigfoot Crossroads dot com. You can find links to social media,

1072
01:14:52,520 --> 01:14:56,720
Speaker 2: past episodes, merchandise, everything you need all in one place,

1073
01:14:57,359 --> 01:15:00,960
Speaker 2: and until next time, remember something in the woods.