WEBVTT

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome back to part two of The Barbie and Ken Killers.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm Nicole and I'm Ben and you're listening to Wicked

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<v Speaker 2>and Grim and Drew Grime podcast.

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<v Speaker 1>Morning audience listeners question.

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<v Speaker 2>Is what's up, guys?

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome.

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<v Speaker 2>Booze is present because we need we need booze for

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<v Speaker 2>this case.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a wild one.

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<v Speaker 2>And I did say in the last episode I needed whiskey.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm not drinking whiskey strictly because because it's still hot

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<v Speaker 2>as balls and I need a cold beer.

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<v Speaker 1>A cold beer. You're not drinking White Claws.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I'm drinking cold beer from Smithers Smithers Brewing Fun.

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<v Speaker 2>It's their new cloud Waters with Beer. I saw it

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<v Speaker 2>the liquor store and I was like, I'm trying it

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<v Speaker 2>and at my first sip I like it good.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm glad.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Anyways, after that.

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<v Speaker 1>Plug, yeah, not sponsored or anything not sponsored by So yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>we're going to jump back into it as a little recap.

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<v Speaker 1>I guess we were talking about Paul Bernardo and Carla.

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<v Speaker 1>Hello home, whoa Carla? I can't even speak.

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<v Speaker 2>Wow, Nicole's had one. She's drunk.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, this is okay. Could you imagine if I was

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<v Speaker 1>like shouldar trying to do a podcast.

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<v Speaker 2>We should do that one day drunk wicked and great.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, well I thought that would be fun back in

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<v Speaker 1>the day, but now that we've like started this second,

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<v Speaker 1>you know.

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<v Speaker 2>If I would want to back in the day a

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<v Speaker 2>whole like five months that we first started the podcast,

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<v Speaker 2>So I think we should do that one day drunk

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<v Speaker 2>wickening grim.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, maybe maybe, maybe maybe we should.

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<v Speaker 2>We'll put up a story and see what people think.

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<v Speaker 1>For sure they're gonna want it, but it might be

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<v Speaker 1>ever disaster.

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<v Speaker 2>I think would be. That's the best part.

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<v Speaker 1>I'll have to do commentary because, like lots of times, if

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<v Speaker 1>I'm too drunk, I can't read.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, I will be so screwed. I'll be the same.

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<v Speaker 2>It's gonna be a ship show if we do it.

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<v Speaker 2>But I'm totally down for it.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay. So yeah, we're talking about Paul, and we're talking

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<v Speaker 1>about Carla, and we're talking about how their pieces of

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<v Speaker 1>shit cutting right to it, cutting right to it. We

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<v Speaker 1>went through like the Scarborough rapes and then we just

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<v Speaker 1>stopped at We've actually was quite a ship place to stop.

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<v Speaker 1>Sorry about that pipes, but how they were going to

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<v Speaker 1>their next victim who was going to beat Tammy Homolko.

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<v Speaker 1>I keep saying the last name wrong, so just bear

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<v Speaker 1>with me. Names are hard, And Carla was basically offering

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<v Speaker 1>her little sister's virginity.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, the biggest piece of thing you could get Christmas present. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>Merry Christmas to my hobby. You can bang my sister

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<v Speaker 2>like that's without her consented. That's really fucked. You don't

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<v Speaker 2>get that. You can't do that.

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<v Speaker 1>Sorry, I know it's it's just fucked up. It's fucked.

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<v Speaker 2>These people are so messed up.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, So yeah, I basically had dropped hit off saying

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<v Speaker 1>that the next victim was Tammy, so to start us off.

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<v Speaker 1>This didn't necessarily come out of left field, though, okay,

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<v Speaker 1>because although he was engaged, he as in Paul to Carla.

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<v Speaker 1>Paul would flirt constantly with her young sister Tammy. His

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<v Speaker 1>obsession with her would grow on the daily.

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<v Speaker 2>Really, and how old is she? She's like fourteen fifteen fifteen.

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<v Speaker 1>He would peer into her window and enter into her

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<v Speaker 1>room to master while sheet while she's your face.

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<v Speaker 2>That's fucking disgusting.

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<v Speaker 1>You're just like a pauled. I couldn't even get through.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm sorry, I'm not gonna be able to look at you, Carla,

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<v Speaker 1>helping him gain access to her sisters, right the fuck?

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<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, this case it just goes downhill from when

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<v Speaker 1>I already fucking present. Earlier in July, Paul took Tammy

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<v Speaker 1>across the border to get beer for a party, which,

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<v Speaker 1>like that didn't make any sense to me, because like

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<v Speaker 1>he could have gotten beer in Canada for her, and

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<v Speaker 1>like she was young, so like and the drinking age

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<v Speaker 1>over there is older. Anyway, I was just like whatever. Later,

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<v Speaker 1>telling her fiance that they got drunk and made out that.

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<v Speaker 2>All right, I feel really gross listening to this, but okay,

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<v Speaker 2>keep going.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh just wait, I just kind of read this next line. Okay.

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<v Speaker 1>Carla would also role play her sister Oh in bed

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<v Speaker 1>with Paul Oh wearing his wearing her sister's clothes, saying

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<v Speaker 1>her name was Tammy and that she was fifteen years

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<v Speaker 1>old and I'm your virgin.

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<v Speaker 2>That is why what? No, yeah, no, that's that's a

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<v Speaker 2>whole new kind of fucked up.

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<v Speaker 1>Just a bit. It's a little fucked.

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<v Speaker 2>You are enjoying putting me through this. I think I.

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<v Speaker 1>Actually, okay, I put so much frickin' work into this one.

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<v Speaker 1>This this podcast, so I'm like almost kind of like, oh,

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<v Speaker 1>it's gonna be over.

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<v Speaker 2>And get my life back until next one. You have

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<v Speaker 2>to reach it.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. But then it's also like I knew that you

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<v Speaker 1>would just cringe at so many things, and it's kind

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<v Speaker 1>of fun to watch. Okay, this part doesn't make a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of sense to me, with Carla offering Tammy's virginity

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<v Speaker 1>as a Christmas gift, but I was like, maybe this

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<v Speaker 1>was just their first attempt at it. But one night,

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<v Speaker 1>Carla laced Tammy's spaghetti sauce with crushed vol volume vallium

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<v Speaker 1>vallium valium she had stolen from her employee at the

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<v Speaker 1>Martindale Animal Clinic. She served it to her sister, who

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<v Speaker 1>soon lost consciousness. Paul then raped or maybe just like

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<v Speaker 1>sexually assaulted Tammy while Carla watched, because Tammy woke up

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<v Speaker 1>about a minute later. So the valium wasn't.

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<v Speaker 2>Super strong enough for potent enough.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, So like I guess I don't know if that

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<v Speaker 1>was first attemp or maybe the very tempted, but really

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<v Speaker 1>like it wasn't long. So then on December twenty third,

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<v Speaker 1>nineteen ninety, this is six months before Paul and Carla

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<v Speaker 1>were going to get married. Oh god, which is like

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<v Speaker 1>kind of fucked up.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, this whole thing is kind of fucked up.

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<v Speaker 1>My back is already hurting. This is going to be

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<v Speaker 1>a long ride. Carla had stole the anesthetic agent and like,

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<v Speaker 1>there's some medical things, so just bear with me. Halothane

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<v Speaker 1>halathane from the clinic. They administered sleeping pills to the

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<v Speaker 1>fifteen year old in a rub rub rumen eggnog cocktail.

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<v Speaker 1>You like that.

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<v Speaker 2>I love rummen eggnog.

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<v Speaker 1>Without without the sleeping pills, right.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, well, I mean sometimes I want to get the

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<v Speaker 2>nap in.

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<v Speaker 1>So and when Tammy lost consciousness, they undressed her and

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<v Speaker 1>Carla applied a Hall of Fame soaked cloth to her

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<v Speaker 1>sister's nose and mouth. With Tammy's parents sleeping upstairs, Carla

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<v Speaker 1>and Paul videotaped themselves raping her in the basement.

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<v Speaker 2>They videoed it too.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, they're really into that.

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<v Speaker 2>Actually, So her sister was not necessarily just involved in

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<v Speaker 2>the rape. She actually partook in the rape.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah. There was even times where I think that

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<v Speaker 1>she did things, but I didn't really dive into that.

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<v Speaker 2>Let something, she's eating something off the floor, what are

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<v Speaker 2>you doing, ripley, ripley, what you've got? Did you find

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<v Speaker 2>a bug or something it's gone whatever it was, or no,

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know, there's some thing over there.

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<v Speaker 1>It's really a bug. Probably, So at one point Tammy

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<v Speaker 1>began to vomit. They tried to revive her, and once

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<v Speaker 1>the evidence was hidden, like Tammy being dressed and in

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<v Speaker 1>her bedroom, they called nine one one. A few hours later,

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<v Speaker 1>Tammy was pronounced dead at the Saint Catherine's General Hospital.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh no, they killed her. Shit, really, despite their odd

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<v Speaker 1>behavior of vacuuming and washing laundry in the middle of

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<v Speaker 1>the night and Tammy having a nasty like it was nasty.

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<v Speaker 1>I saw a picture chemical burn on her face. The

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<v Speaker 1>coroner and the family accepted Paul and Carla's story are

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<v Speaker 1>the official cause of Tammy's death. Death was accidental accidental

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<v Speaker 1>choking on vomit after consumption of alcohol.

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<v Speaker 2>That's oh my god.

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<v Speaker 1>Like the burn was horrific on her face and I

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<v Speaker 1>don't don't even have it in here, but they their

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<v Speaker 1>lie or something was that while they're trying to like

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<v Speaker 1>save her. It was carpet burn.

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<v Speaker 2>Really, Yeah, there is a big difference between carpet burn

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<v Speaker 2>and chemical burn.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Like it's honestly just it blows my mind that

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<v Speaker 1>they didn't check into that, Like that's crazy.

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<v Speaker 2>No kidding, what kind of corner is this? Were they

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<v Speaker 2>just like going down to the corner of like who

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<v Speaker 2>knows where downtown being like, hey, yeah, someone to look

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<v Speaker 2>at a dead body, and they're like some dudes at

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<v Speaker 2>trench coat. Yo, I got your back, man.

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<v Speaker 1>We've kind of been over that before though too lot

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<v Speaker 1>somes if they're if it's not like super suspicious, Like

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<v Speaker 1>it's like they don't dive in.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, a chemical burn on the face of someone

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<v Speaker 2>who just died of exphyxiation is super suspicious.

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<v Speaker 1>I would think.

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<v Speaker 2>So, whether she actually died of exphyxiation or it was

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<v Speaker 2>the drug overdose regardless.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, yeah, like I think that she was puking, they

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<v Speaker 1>probably didn't notice, Like they had this cloth up to

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<v Speaker 1>her mouth and then she like choked it at on

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<v Speaker 1>her vomit.

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<v Speaker 2>Jeez.

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<v Speaker 1>So Paul and Carla moved out of the Hamoko house

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<v Speaker 1>shortly after to allow the parents to grieve, Carla apparently

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<v Speaker 1>being quite annoyed that they were taking so long to

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<v Speaker 1>get over it.

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<v Speaker 2>Are you fucking serious?

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<v Speaker 1>No? Not or I am okay. I was like, oh,

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<v Speaker 1>you're like, okay, She's not that bad then, so she

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<v Speaker 1>was annoyed that she was annoyed because like her wedding

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<v Speaker 1>was approaching, so she wanted like all the attention to

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<v Speaker 1>be on her. And then they, the parents even were

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<v Speaker 1>thinking that she should postpone her wedding because just this

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<v Speaker 1>traumatic event just happened, like her Brigand's sister died, and

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<v Speaker 1>she was like basically like, get the fuck over it.

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<v Speaker 2>What the frig you know, like, seriously, what a piece

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<v Speaker 2>of work? Ah, I want to call her the C word.

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<v Speaker 2>I know, I want to say it. I can I

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<v Speaker 2>say it? This?

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, okay, moving on, I love you. Paul's next rape

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<v Speaker 1>would be on April sixth, nineteen ninety one, committing his

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<v Speaker 1>twelfth rape, raping a fourteen year old girl in Saint

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<v Speaker 1>Catharine's but staying away from his like regular emo. He

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<v Speaker 1>attacked the fourteen year old in the morning rather than

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<v Speaker 1>late at night, and it did not occur near us. Stop.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, So he's evolving, like we discussed last time.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. So then on June seventh, nineteen ninety one, Carla

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<v Speaker 1>invited a fifteen year old girl she had befriended at

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<v Speaker 1>a pet shop years earlier over for a girl's night

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<v Speaker 1>member she used to work at like a pets yea, right,

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<v Speaker 1>and I'm going to refer to this girl as Jane

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<v Speaker 1>Doe after just.

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<v Speaker 2>Because she's underage, is that right?

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<v Speaker 1>You'll find out Okay. After an evening of shopping and dining,

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<v Speaker 1>Carla began to feed Jane Doe alcohol laced with helcy

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<v Speaker 1>in Helcian used to treat insomnia.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay.

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<v Speaker 1>When the girl lost consciousness, Carla called Paul to tell

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<v Speaker 1>her that his surprise virgin wedding gift was ready.

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<v Speaker 2>What the fuck? Like, what the fuck is.

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<v Speaker 1>Isn't that just like unimaginable that you're like your gifts

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<v Speaker 1>to someone is like a freaking young person that you've

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<v Speaker 1>drugged and that is a virgin and you're gonna let

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<v Speaker 1>your spouse right.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, my wedding gift to you, I got you a

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<v Speaker 2>replica Cinderella shoe, Yeah, I really.

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<v Speaker 1>I got you a gun, which I guess it kind

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<v Speaker 1>of weird, but.

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<v Speaker 2>A hunting rifle, yes, for the record, not just like hey,

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<v Speaker 2>here's a nine mel go cap. Some asses like no.

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<v Speaker 1>Paul videotape Carla raping the girl before he took over

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<v Speaker 1>vaginally and anally penetrating her. The next morning, Jane Doe

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<v Speaker 1>was nauseous but thought that her vomiting was from drinking

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<v Speaker 1>alcohol for the first time and did not realize that

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<v Speaker 1>she had been sexually assaulted.

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<v Speaker 2>What she was sexually she was nauseous from being sexual assaulted,

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<v Speaker 2>well from drinking.

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<v Speaker 1>Like, remember they were feeding her lots of alcohol.

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<v Speaker 2>That okay, okay, okay. I was like, wait, so she.

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<v Speaker 1>Thought she was just sick from that, okay, but it

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<v Speaker 1>was probably also it had to do I'm sure with

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<v Speaker 1>like drinking, but then also like the drug that was

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<v Speaker 1>in there, and then she was sore too, But like

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<v Speaker 1>I think she just thought it.

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<v Speaker 2>Was from booze. Yeah, I don't know, first time boozer,

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<v Speaker 2>doesn't know what to expect to mean.

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<v Speaker 1>In August, the same girl was invited back to their

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<v Speaker 1>home to spend the night and was once again drugged

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<v Speaker 1>and raped. At one point, Carla called nine one one

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<v Speaker 1>as Jane Doe had appeared to stop breathe stop breathing,

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<v Speaker 1>but called back a few minutes later to say that

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<v Speaker 1>everything is actually all right, and the ambulance was recalled

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<v Speaker 1>without following up. Jane Doe did survive.

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<v Speaker 2>She did good.

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<v Speaker 1>So yeah, I mean she's underage, so and she survived,

254
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<v Speaker 1>so they're just referring to her chin fair enough, fair enough,

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<v Speaker 1>I mean kind of sad, like I'm sure she's still

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<v Speaker 1>out there and like she she had no idea. She

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<v Speaker 1>thought she was just going to a friend's post to

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<v Speaker 1>hang out and later has to find out that she

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<v Speaker 1>was actually.

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<v Speaker 2>Like rap rap twice. Yeah, fuck no, thank you, I

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<v Speaker 2>don't I'm never going to go to a friend's house again.

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<v Speaker 2>Someone's like, hey, you want to come over and fucking

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<v Speaker 2>play watch the hockey game or something. Yeah, no, I

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<v Speaker 2>want my sphincter intact. Thank you.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh my gosh, this is making you going to be

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<v Speaker 1>like a hermitting.

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<v Speaker 2>Probably this entire podcast, we're talking about people going out

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<v Speaker 2>and like killing people and just crawl like the bedroom strangler,

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<v Speaker 2>crawling in windows at night.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh well, I know even like, oh, I don't even

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<v Speaker 1>think I should say this, but we've been leaving like

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<v Speaker 1>one window open at night. That's like kind of bothersome

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<v Speaker 1>to me. And I think I've asked you a couple

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<v Speaker 1>of times, so okay, and you're always kitchen. Yeah, but

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<v Speaker 1>then if you weren't tell them. That would not be

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<v Speaker 1>fucking open. There's no way.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, the thing is, we do have dogs that would

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<v Speaker 2>definitely alert us.

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<v Speaker 1>They would alert us. I don't know if they would

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<v Speaker 1>do anything.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well, you know how it goes when I wake

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<v Speaker 2>up and I hear some strange noises.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but if you're not home, right.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but I've been home. Yeah, I'll break some teeth

285
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<v Speaker 2>in at least I like to think I would, but

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<v Speaker 2>I probably would just die, you would know.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, So next up, because we're not quite done yet,

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<v Speaker 1>would be Leslie Mahaffey. On June fifteenth, nineteen ninety one,

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<v Speaker 1>Paul was in Burlington to steal license plates and came

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<v Speaker 1>across Leslie. She was a fourteen year old girl, and

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<v Speaker 1>just to do the math for you, Paul would have

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<v Speaker 1>been twenty seven at that time. Fox sake Like that's nasty, Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>like nasty.

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<v Speaker 2>That's basically double her age.

295
00:15:56.320 --> 00:16:00.600
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, like disgusting. Leslie missed her curfew after attending a

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00:16:00.639 --> 00:16:04.360
<v Speaker 1>friend's wake and was locked out of her house, which

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00:16:04.360 --> 00:16:07.120
<v Speaker 1>I'm like, that's sad. I mean, okay, that wake was

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<v Speaker 1>earlier in the day and then they were just like

299
00:16:08.919 --> 00:16:11.120
<v Speaker 1>she was kind of at a celebration, and I think

300
00:16:11.440 --> 00:16:14.600
<v Speaker 1>she was kind of like not she was not. She

301
00:16:14.679 --> 00:16:16.840
<v Speaker 1>had some issues and her parents like locked her out,

302
00:16:16.840 --> 00:16:20.360
<v Speaker 1>but I mean, god, they probably yeah.

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00:16:20.000 --> 00:16:21.840
<v Speaker 2>Shit, I don't want to hear what's coming up.

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00:16:21.879 --> 00:16:25.720
<v Speaker 1>But because also she had phoned a friend too to

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00:16:25.720 --> 00:16:28.159
<v Speaker 1>see if she could sleep there, but then the friend

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00:16:28.240 --> 00:16:29.720
<v Speaker 1>was like, no, it's not like a good idea. It's

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00:16:29.720 --> 00:16:32.039
<v Speaker 1>really late, like my mom might get mad, and so

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00:16:32.240 --> 00:16:35.759
<v Speaker 1>like Leslie was on her own and then have terrible

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00:16:35.840 --> 00:16:36.720
<v Speaker 1>look luck.

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<v Speaker 2>She ran into Paul across this dick weed.

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<v Speaker 1>So Paul, coming across Leslie on the street, approached her

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00:16:45.320 --> 00:16:48.799
<v Speaker 1>saying that he wanted to break into a neighbor's house. Leslie,

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00:16:48.879 --> 00:16:52.080
<v Speaker 1>being unfazed by this, was more concerned if Paul had

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00:16:52.120 --> 00:16:52.960
<v Speaker 1>any cigarettes.

315
00:16:53.600 --> 00:16:55.200
<v Speaker 2>Really, that's that's her question.

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<v Speaker 1>I know, I would feel like, you're out.

317
00:16:58.000 --> 00:17:02.080
<v Speaker 2>Alone with some strange dude and he's like, suck you

318
00:17:02.120 --> 00:17:02.399
<v Speaker 2>want to?

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00:17:02.480 --> 00:17:04.759
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that something was at that age, especially if you're

320
00:17:04.799 --> 00:17:07.160
<v Speaker 1>like going through something, you probably think that you're rule in.

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00:17:07.079 --> 00:17:11.119
<v Speaker 2>The world, right, I guess Yeah, when.

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00:17:13.039 --> 00:17:14.759
<v Speaker 1>I was dumb as a kid, I can tell you

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00:17:14.839 --> 00:17:17.480
<v Speaker 1>that when Paul led her to his car to get

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00:17:17.480 --> 00:17:21.160
<v Speaker 1>the cigarettes, I'm assuming he blindfolded her, forced her into

325
00:17:21.200 --> 00:17:23.599
<v Speaker 1>his car, and proceeded to drive her home.

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00:17:26.160 --> 00:17:26.680
<v Speaker 2>Interesting.

327
00:17:27.079 --> 00:17:31.920
<v Speaker 1>Okay, I needed a breath there. Paul and Carla, Okay,

328
00:17:32.000 --> 00:17:33.799
<v Speaker 1>actually I didn't throw this in there, but it's so

329
00:17:33.880 --> 00:17:37.119
<v Speaker 1>fucked up. It's like, okay, Carl, I think was like

330
00:17:37.240 --> 00:17:41.759
<v Speaker 1>sleeping and in the morning was like all pissy that

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<v Speaker 1>he had this girl there. And you want to know

332
00:17:44.720 --> 00:17:48.119
<v Speaker 1>the reason why she was actually pissy? Why is because

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00:17:48.160 --> 00:17:51.680
<v Speaker 1>I guess the night before Paul had served him in

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00:17:51.799 --> 00:17:57.279
<v Speaker 1>Leslie's champagne, in their nice champagne glasses, like they're special ones,

335
00:17:58.319 --> 00:18:00.400
<v Speaker 1>and so she was pissed off that.

336
00:18:00.839 --> 00:18:02.839
<v Speaker 2>But not the fact that he just kidnapped this young

337
00:18:02.880 --> 00:18:05.119
<v Speaker 2>fu girl and brought her home to rape while she's sleeping.

338
00:18:05.359 --> 00:18:07.720
<v Speaker 1>She eventually just came around and came part of it.

339
00:18:09.000 --> 00:18:13.200
<v Speaker 2>These guys are fucked up, Like I can't understand. All right, Okay,

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00:18:13.319 --> 00:18:15.359
<v Speaker 2>I'm sorry. Moving on.

341
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<v Speaker 1>Paul and Carla then once again videotape themselves torturing and

342
00:18:20.240 --> 00:18:23.559
<v Speaker 1>sexually abusing Leslie while they listened to Bob Marley and

343
00:18:23.680 --> 00:18:24.400
<v Speaker 1>David Bowie.

344
00:18:25.400 --> 00:18:32.799
<v Speaker 2>At one point, all right, what they're sitting here torturing

345
00:18:32.839 --> 00:18:36.279
<v Speaker 2>and sexually assaulting this girl while they're playing songs like

346
00:18:37.000 --> 00:18:45.359
<v Speaker 2>every little thing right, like what that like.

347
00:18:43.480 --> 00:18:46.160
<v Speaker 1>Like this, wait till this, this next line, like this

348
00:18:46.240 --> 00:18:50.119
<v Speaker 1>next line is like wow Okay. At one point, Paul

349
00:18:52.200 --> 00:18:55.640
<v Speaker 1>praised Leslie, saying that she was doing a good job,

350
00:18:55.839 --> 00:18:58.599
<v Speaker 1>a damned good job, and that the next two hours

351
00:18:58.599 --> 00:19:03.079
<v Speaker 1>would determine her fate. Right now, her scoring was perfect.

352
00:19:03.920 --> 00:19:05.400
<v Speaker 2>What the fuck does that even mean?

353
00:19:05.559 --> 00:19:06.240
<v Speaker 1>That's nasty?

354
00:19:06.319 --> 00:19:07.440
<v Speaker 2>Hey wow.

355
00:19:07.519 --> 00:19:11.680
<v Speaker 1>The assault escalated, with Leslie crying out in pain, begging

356
00:19:11.720 --> 00:19:15.079
<v Speaker 1>Paul to stop as he was sodomizing her and her

357
00:19:15.079 --> 00:19:20.279
<v Speaker 1>hands were bound with twine. Leslie's fate was sealed later

358
00:19:20.640 --> 00:19:24.000
<v Speaker 1>when she mentioned to Paul that her blindfold seemed to

359
00:19:24.000 --> 00:19:29.400
<v Speaker 1>be slipping down. This single signaled to Paul and Carla

360
00:19:29.960 --> 00:19:33.440
<v Speaker 1>the possibility that she could identify them if she lived.

361
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<v Speaker 1>The following day, Leslie was killed.

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00:19:36.640 --> 00:19:38.359
<v Speaker 2>These people make me fucking sick.

363
00:19:39.039 --> 00:19:41.839
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I know. And it's almost like God, if she

364
00:19:41.839 --> 00:19:44.599
<v Speaker 1>didn't say something about her blindfold, like would she have lived?

365
00:19:44.680 --> 00:19:47.599
<v Speaker 2>But probably not, But her blindfold would have fell down.

366
00:19:48.440 --> 00:19:48.759
<v Speaker 1>I know.

367
00:19:48.920 --> 00:19:51.839
<v Speaker 2>If it's slipping, it's going to keep slipping, it's going

368
00:19:51.920 --> 00:19:54.720
<v Speaker 2>to fall down, and they would see She would see

369
00:19:54.720 --> 00:19:56.559
<v Speaker 2>them for sure, and that would see her fate even

370
00:19:56.599 --> 00:19:59.680
<v Speaker 2>more so. This way she rolled the dice, maybe they

371
00:19:59.680 --> 00:20:02.799
<v Speaker 2>would fix it and it's okay, But they didn't take that.

372
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<v Speaker 2>They didn't let her take the chance.

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<v Speaker 1>So a little glimpse into the future too. Paul claimed

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00:20:08.839 --> 00:20:14.119
<v Speaker 1>Carla fed her a lethal dose of hallsint halsane. I

375
00:20:14.119 --> 00:20:16.839
<v Speaker 1>think I might be saying that wrong, helse On.

376
00:20:17.039 --> 00:20:17.480
<v Speaker 2>I don't know.

377
00:20:18.359 --> 00:20:22.319
<v Speaker 1>It was the thing for insolmia, I think. And Carla

378
00:20:22.359 --> 00:20:26.960
<v Speaker 1>claimed that Paul strangled Leslie. So they have different different

379
00:20:27.000 --> 00:20:27.680
<v Speaker 1>stories there.

380
00:20:27.759 --> 00:20:29.400
<v Speaker 2>Also in the future they kind of turn on each

381
00:20:29.400 --> 00:20:29.839
<v Speaker 2>other a bit.

382
00:20:30.079 --> 00:20:32.440
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that might be a little glimpse, A little glimpse.

383
00:20:33.240 --> 00:20:34.680
<v Speaker 2>They a little bit of kara at least.

384
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<v Speaker 1>They then proceeded to hold on to Leslie's dead body

385
00:20:38.039 --> 00:20:42.440
<v Speaker 1>in their basement until after they hosted Carla's family over

386
00:20:42.519 --> 00:20:45.839
<v Speaker 1>for dinner, at which point they then disposed of the

387
00:20:45.880 --> 00:20:53.440
<v Speaker 1>evidence by dismembering Leslie and encasing her remains in cement. Keeping.

388
00:20:53.519 --> 00:20:56.759
<v Speaker 1>The receipts would be held against Paul later as he

389
00:20:56.799 --> 00:20:59.559
<v Speaker 1>purchased a dozen bags of the cement at a hardware store.

390
00:21:00.680 --> 00:21:04.880
<v Speaker 2>Why did he keep the receipt That's the dumbest thing

391
00:21:04.920 --> 00:21:05.279
<v Speaker 2>he kept.

392
00:21:05.279 --> 00:21:07.839
<v Speaker 1>Other weird shit, Well, I mean they're fucking videotape in

393
00:21:07.920 --> 00:21:08.279
<v Speaker 1>the ship.

394
00:21:08.519 --> 00:21:09.839
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's true.

395
00:21:10.000 --> 00:21:12.200
<v Speaker 1>I don't know what they're concerned about getting caught like

396
00:21:12.200 --> 00:21:12.920
<v Speaker 1>the Rodney I'll.

397
00:21:12.799 --> 00:21:15.759
<v Speaker 2>Call a case. One of the things, like the dating

398
00:21:15.759 --> 00:21:16.240
<v Speaker 2>game killer.

399
00:21:16.440 --> 00:21:16.680
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

400
00:21:16.720 --> 00:21:18.799
<v Speaker 2>One of the things he had that convicted him was

401
00:21:18.839 --> 00:21:20.160
<v Speaker 2>a fucking receipt.

402
00:21:20.039 --> 00:21:23.680
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean that would probably I keep receipts. So

403
00:21:23.720 --> 00:21:24.279
<v Speaker 1>I'm fucked.

404
00:21:26.079 --> 00:21:28.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I do not. I'm bad at that.

405
00:21:29.559 --> 00:21:33.839
<v Speaker 1>So, using his grandfather father saw to dismember Leslie, Paula

406
00:21:33.880 --> 00:21:36.480
<v Speaker 1>and Carla made a number of trips to Lake Gibson

407
00:21:36.519 --> 00:21:40.599
<v Speaker 1>to dump Leslie's remains, leaving the heaviest block, which weighed

408
00:21:40.599 --> 00:21:43.599
<v Speaker 1>about two hundred pounds, near the shore as they didn't

409
00:21:43.640 --> 00:21:46.680
<v Speaker 1>have the ability to sink it. It was found a

410
00:21:46.720 --> 00:21:50.200
<v Speaker 1>couple of weeks later on Carla and Paul's wedding day.

411
00:21:51.359 --> 00:21:55.599
<v Speaker 2>Don't dull they So they didn't even.

412
00:21:55.519 --> 00:21:58.000
<v Speaker 1>Dispose the body properly, not really, like I mean, they

413
00:21:58.240 --> 00:22:00.640
<v Speaker 1>fucked up, Like that's two hundred pounds, Like what were

414
00:22:00.680 --> 00:22:04.480
<v Speaker 1>they thinking? Yeah, no shit, and so yeah, they couldn't

415
00:22:04.680 --> 00:22:07.119
<v Speaker 1>they couldn't put it deep enough and stuff, and so

416
00:22:07.160 --> 00:22:09.559
<v Speaker 1>they just left it on the shore, all right.

417
00:22:10.000 --> 00:22:11.519
<v Speaker 2>Of course, someone's gonna find it.

418
00:22:11.680 --> 00:22:17.160
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, so the next victim would be Christian French.

419
00:22:17.519 --> 00:22:19.160
<v Speaker 2>How many victims are there?

420
00:22:19.359 --> 00:22:22.160
<v Speaker 1>I think I think this might be the last one,

421
00:22:22.279 --> 00:22:24.160
<v Speaker 1>but I don't want to scroll and lose my spot.

422
00:22:24.640 --> 00:22:27.279
<v Speaker 1>Paul and Carla were driving through. I'm pretty sure it

423
00:22:27.319 --> 00:22:32.200
<v Speaker 1>is Saint Catherine's looking for a potential next victim, you know,

424
00:22:32.400 --> 00:22:36.880
<v Speaker 1>just strolling around when God, I would be going like

425
00:22:36.920 --> 00:22:37.400
<v Speaker 1>ice creamers.

426
00:22:37.480 --> 00:22:38.599
<v Speaker 2>I was just about to say, go and get some

427
00:22:38.680 --> 00:22:39.319
<v Speaker 2>ice cream.

428
00:22:39.480 --> 00:22:45.440
<v Speaker 1>You drive out teenager when they okay, I mean.

429
00:22:45.279 --> 00:22:47.559
<v Speaker 2>You could probably get someone under age with an ice

430
00:22:47.599 --> 00:22:50.240
<v Speaker 2>cream truck. Combine the two. I don't know, you want

431
00:22:50.240 --> 00:22:52.119
<v Speaker 2>to get the creepy Peto van? Maybe?

432
00:22:52.400 --> 00:22:59.039
<v Speaker 1>Oh gosh, Okay. As they passed Holy Cross Secondary School,

433
00:22:59.359 --> 00:23:02.759
<v Speaker 1>a Catholic high school, they spotted fifteen year old Christian

434
00:23:03.200 --> 00:23:06.720
<v Speaker 1>Kristin making her way home. They pulled into a nearby

435
00:23:06.759 --> 00:23:09.680
<v Speaker 1>parking lot and Carla got out of the car, approaching

436
00:23:09.720 --> 00:23:12.759
<v Speaker 1>her with a map in hand, pretending to meet assistance.

437
00:23:13.359 --> 00:23:16.119
<v Speaker 1>I feel like, okay, I'm actually a super bitch. Actually

438
00:23:16.160 --> 00:23:20.240
<v Speaker 1>if people like approach me. And I think it's from

439
00:23:20.279 --> 00:23:22.400
<v Speaker 1>just listening to true crime, because lots of times it's

440
00:23:22.440 --> 00:23:25.240
<v Speaker 1>like sketch and well, no, the majority of time it's

441
00:23:25.279 --> 00:23:29.039
<v Speaker 1>not sketch, but it can be sketch. And I'm can

442
00:23:29.079 --> 00:23:30.759
<v Speaker 1>you just like keep your distance away.

443
00:23:30.519 --> 00:23:35.480
<v Speaker 2>From me, place your hand out like excuse that, just

444
00:23:35.519 --> 00:23:38.240
<v Speaker 2>like stop, do not come any closer.

445
00:23:38.880 --> 00:23:41.839
<v Speaker 1>So as Kristin looked at the map, Paul attacked her

446
00:23:41.839 --> 00:23:44.920
<v Speaker 1>from behind, forcing her into the front seat of the car.

447
00:23:45.599 --> 00:23:52.200
<v Speaker 1>From the back seat, Carla subdued her by pulling her hair. Kristen,

448
00:23:52.319 --> 00:23:55.359
<v Speaker 1>taking the same route home from school every day and

449
00:23:56.319 --> 00:23:59.559
<v Speaker 1>arriving home at generally the same time each day, was

450
00:23:59.640 --> 00:24:02.440
<v Speaker 1>reported missing very soon after the abduction.

451
00:24:02.599 --> 00:24:03.319
<v Speaker 2>Good good, Good.

452
00:24:03.519 --> 00:24:08.359
<v Speaker 1>Her parents convinced that something bad had happened within I

453
00:24:08.400 --> 00:24:09.359
<v Speaker 1>thought you're drinking something.

454
00:24:09.160 --> 00:24:11.000
<v Speaker 2>Funey, I might burp because of the beers, some leaning

455
00:24:11.039 --> 00:24:12.599
<v Speaker 2>away the microphone. Sorry.

456
00:24:12.640 --> 00:24:18.200
<v Speaker 1>Within twenty four hours, the Niagara Regional Police Service assembled

457
00:24:18.200 --> 00:24:23.039
<v Speaker 1>a team searching Christian's root and found several witnesses who

458
00:24:23.079 --> 00:24:27.279
<v Speaker 1>had actually seen the abduction from different locations. Her shoe

459
00:24:27.359 --> 00:24:31.920
<v Speaker 1>was also recovered from the parking lot, which definitely showed

460
00:24:32.000 --> 00:24:34.440
<v Speaker 1>the seriousness of the of the adduction.

461
00:24:35.079 --> 00:24:42.400
<v Speaker 2>One you lose the spot I did getting too distracted

462
00:24:42.400 --> 00:24:43.759
<v Speaker 2>with me getting this because you're.

463
00:24:43.640 --> 00:24:45.319
<v Speaker 1>Moving around a lot like just sit there.

464
00:24:45.480 --> 00:24:47.799
<v Speaker 2>I leaned away from the mic for a second and

465
00:24:47.839 --> 00:24:50.680
<v Speaker 2>then I like just reached down for a pencil, and

466
00:24:50.839 --> 00:24:52.960
<v Speaker 2>you're just like the whole world's ending.

467
00:24:53.359 --> 00:24:57.839
<v Speaker 1>Okay. So over the Easter weekend, Paul and Carla videotape

468
00:24:57.880 --> 00:25:03.400
<v Speaker 1>themselves torturing, raping, and sodomizing this girl, forcing her to

469
00:25:03.480 --> 00:25:07.440
<v Speaker 1>drink large amounts of alcohol and submit to Paul. They

470
00:25:07.599 --> 00:25:12.200
<v Speaker 1>never blindfolding blindfolded her, so they intended to kill her

471
00:25:12.359 --> 00:25:16.559
<v Speaker 1>all along. Her nude body was found on April thirtieth,

472
00:25:16.799 --> 00:25:20.319
<v Speaker 1>nineteen ninety two in a ditch in Burlington. Paul and

473
00:25:20.359 --> 00:25:22.799
<v Speaker 1>Carla had washed her body and cut off her hair

474
00:25:23.319 --> 00:25:27.839
<v Speaker 1>to like impede identification and yeat. As far as we know,

475
00:25:28.359 --> 00:25:35.279
<v Speaker 1>Christian French would be their last victim, hopefully, But well,

476
00:25:35.319 --> 00:25:37.200
<v Speaker 1>I mean I touch on this later. I think there's

477
00:25:37.279 --> 00:25:38.319
<v Speaker 1>like so many.

478
00:25:38.079 --> 00:25:41.359
<v Speaker 2>More generally with serial killers, there's they.

479
00:25:41.200 --> 00:25:43.839
<v Speaker 1>Don't they don't admit to every single one, like do

480
00:25:43.920 --> 00:25:44.960
<v Speaker 1>they really no?

481
00:25:45.640 --> 00:25:49.440
<v Speaker 2>And just yeah, yeah, yeah, there's of course a bigger

482
00:25:49.519 --> 00:25:50.039
<v Speaker 2>rap sheet.

483
00:25:51.119 --> 00:25:54.359
<v Speaker 1>So if Paul hadn't already compromised his future, he did

484
00:25:54.400 --> 00:25:58.000
<v Speaker 1>even more so that summer when Carla would turn into

485
00:25:58.000 --> 00:26:04.200
<v Speaker 1>his literal punching big oh shit, severely beating her many times,

486
00:26:04.400 --> 00:26:08.599
<v Speaker 1>causing people to notice in January, and I just mean

487
00:26:08.640 --> 00:26:10.799
<v Speaker 1>that because like that's going to help her in court. Right.

488
00:26:11.519 --> 00:26:13.680
<v Speaker 1>I don't know if you grated that, but I'm I did.

489
00:26:13.720 --> 00:26:14.519
<v Speaker 1>I'm disappointed.

490
00:26:14.640 --> 00:26:18.519
<v Speaker 2>I got it a note take in Remember that pencil

491
00:26:18.519 --> 00:26:21.240
<v Speaker 2>I said I was reaching for I'm writing this day.

492
00:26:22.160 --> 00:26:24.200
<v Speaker 1>Okay, but lots of times like you do throw out

493
00:26:24.279 --> 00:26:26.319
<v Speaker 1>subtle hints and I don't get them. So now I'm

494
00:26:26.359 --> 00:26:27.839
<v Speaker 1>just like, oh, maybe Ben doesn't get it.

495
00:26:28.920 --> 00:26:32.000
<v Speaker 2>I got it. I appreciate it. Thanks, thanks for letting

496
00:26:32.079 --> 00:26:33.240
<v Speaker 2>me know. I appreciate it.

497
00:26:33.319 --> 00:26:36.519
<v Speaker 1>You got my back, and you're right. Of nineteen ninety three,

498
00:26:37.000 --> 00:26:41.440
<v Speaker 1>Carla's parents would intervene and persuade her to take refuge

499
00:26:41.480 --> 00:26:44.519
<v Speaker 1>in the home of one of her sisters, her sister

500
00:26:44.599 --> 00:26:49.039
<v Speaker 1>Laurie's friend's house, whose husband was a police officer. Chargers

501
00:26:49.039 --> 00:26:53.119
<v Speaker 1>were filed against Paul and he was arrested but later released.

502
00:26:53.400 --> 00:26:56.960
<v Speaker 2>Of course, they're always fucking later released every goddamn story.

503
00:26:57.160 --> 00:27:00.640
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, well, he's already been like, like I already mentioned

504
00:27:00.640 --> 00:27:03.759
<v Speaker 1>it one I think once, I think in yesterday's episode,

505
00:27:04.039 --> 00:27:06.759
<v Speaker 1>but there was other times too, like I could have.

506
00:27:06.880 --> 00:27:10.400
<v Speaker 1>This case could probably be like five episodes. But there

507
00:27:10.440 --> 00:27:12.680
<v Speaker 1>was other times where like police would chat with him

508
00:27:12.920 --> 00:27:15.000
<v Speaker 1>and he just always got away with it because he

509
00:27:15.160 --> 00:27:15.920
<v Speaker 1>was like a charmer.

510
00:27:15.960 --> 00:27:18.920
<v Speaker 2>I guess right, And it's like I go like five

511
00:27:19.039 --> 00:27:20.759
<v Speaker 2>over the speed limit and I get a speeding ticket

512
00:27:20.799 --> 00:27:21.960
<v Speaker 2>and can't talk my way out of it.

513
00:27:22.279 --> 00:27:26.000
<v Speaker 1>Well, honestly, I would be not guilty of something and

514
00:27:26.079 --> 00:27:29.079
<v Speaker 1>look guilty of something. It's like, is how I would

515
00:27:29.119 --> 00:27:30.039
<v Speaker 1>I think what happened to me?

516
00:27:30.319 --> 00:27:32.119
<v Speaker 2>Well, it's like like when you get pulled over by

517
00:27:32.119 --> 00:27:34.400
<v Speaker 2>the cops and then it's like when they're slowly walking

518
00:27:34.480 --> 00:27:36.160
<v Speaker 2>up to the vehicle from behind you, you're all of

519
00:27:36.200 --> 00:27:38.079
<v Speaker 2>a sudden, like shit, do I have a key blow

520
00:27:38.119 --> 00:27:40.319
<v Speaker 2>of cocaine in my glovebox? I don't even do drugs,

521
00:27:40.400 --> 00:27:43.400
<v Speaker 2>and you're just like panic like all this random stuff

522
00:27:43.759 --> 00:27:45.319
<v Speaker 2>like maybe I have a dead body in my trunk.

523
00:27:45.319 --> 00:27:46.400
<v Speaker 2>I hope he doesn't search the trunk.

524
00:27:46.440 --> 00:27:47.960
<v Speaker 1>I know, I hope that he doesn't look around. I

525
00:27:48.039 --> 00:27:49.440
<v Speaker 1>might know something like right.

526
00:27:50.039 --> 00:27:52.359
<v Speaker 2>Maybe someone left a joint behind or something like who knows,

527
00:27:52.640 --> 00:27:54.799
<v Speaker 2>Oh my goodness, I wasn't drinking today, was I Like?

528
00:27:55.000 --> 00:27:56.480
<v Speaker 2>All this sort of shit goes through your head.

529
00:27:56.559 --> 00:28:03.079
<v Speaker 1>I know then shortly after this, and this is twenty

530
00:28:03.119 --> 00:28:07.279
<v Speaker 1>six months after Paul originally submitted his DNA sample. Remember

531
00:28:07.279 --> 00:28:09.839
<v Speaker 1>that DNA sample, the pool of a.

532
00:28:09.720 --> 00:28:11.599
<v Speaker 2>Sample, the whole pool of samples.

533
00:28:12.400 --> 00:28:15.279
<v Speaker 1>Police were informed that it was a match of the

534
00:28:15.279 --> 00:28:20.359
<v Speaker 1>Scarboro rapist and immediately placed Paul under twenty four hour surveillance.

535
00:28:20.680 --> 00:28:23.640
<v Speaker 2>So it took them two years to identify that sam.

536
00:28:23.799 --> 00:28:28.400
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, like, well they just kept Okay. One thing is

537
00:28:28.519 --> 00:28:32.680
<v Speaker 1>they stopped right, the scar rape stopped when he moved,

538
00:28:33.079 --> 00:28:35.160
<v Speaker 1>and so that almost even put them even more on

539
00:28:35.200 --> 00:28:37.240
<v Speaker 1>the back burner because they're like, oh, they're not really

540
00:28:37.880 --> 00:28:38.680
<v Speaker 1>happening now.

541
00:28:39.400 --> 00:28:39.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

542
00:28:40.279 --> 00:28:45.240
<v Speaker 1>Still, but I'm like, that's bad. So they requested an

543
00:28:45.240 --> 00:28:49.880
<v Speaker 1>interview with Carla on February ninth, nineteen ninety three. Despite

544
00:28:49.920 --> 00:28:53.640
<v Speaker 1>hearing their suspicions about Paul, Carla only focused on his

545
00:28:53.680 --> 00:28:58.079
<v Speaker 1>abuse of her. Later that night, being worried, she told

546
00:28:58.119 --> 00:29:02.079
<v Speaker 1>her aunt and uncle that Paul was the Scarborough rapist

547
00:29:02.519 --> 00:29:04.720
<v Speaker 1>and that her and Paul Paul were involved in the

548
00:29:04.799 --> 00:29:08.079
<v Speaker 1>rape and murder of Leslie and Christian, and that the

549
00:29:08.200 --> 00:29:12.079
<v Speaker 1>rapes were videotaped, were recorded on videotape.

550
00:29:12.119 --> 00:29:14.640
<v Speaker 2>So she just up and admitted it all.

551
00:29:14.640 --> 00:29:17.799
<v Speaker 1>She's telling her family. Yeah, well, I mean.

552
00:29:17.720 --> 00:29:20.400
<v Speaker 2>That's that's admitting it, but like, yeah to someone at.

553
00:29:20.319 --> 00:29:24.519
<v Speaker 1>Least, Yeah, she's admitting it. But you'll see she doesn't

554
00:29:24.960 --> 00:29:26.000
<v Speaker 1>admit it really well.

555
00:29:26.079 --> 00:29:28.680
<v Speaker 2>She goes back in her word in court. Well, no

556
00:29:28.839 --> 00:29:30.400
<v Speaker 2>official statements and stuff or what.

557
00:29:30.759 --> 00:29:34.680
<v Speaker 1>Carla got herself a good lawyer, George Walker. Here we go,

558
00:29:34.880 --> 00:29:38.000
<v Speaker 1>and this is funny. She apparently knew. It's not funny. Actually,

559
00:29:39.279 --> 00:29:43.200
<v Speaker 1>she apparently knew knew him because she cared for her

560
00:29:43.440 --> 00:29:47.519
<v Speaker 1>his cancer, his dalmatian that had cancer. So that's actually

561
00:29:47.559 --> 00:29:50.680
<v Speaker 1>not funny. I'm not sure who said that. George realized

562
00:29:50.720 --> 00:29:54.359
<v Speaker 1>that Carla was not necessary the innocent victim of Paul

563
00:29:54.440 --> 00:29:57.279
<v Speaker 1>as she had painted herself to be, but he did

564
00:29:57.359 --> 00:30:00.079
<v Speaker 1>not fully understand what exactly her rule had been in

565
00:30:00.279 --> 00:30:02.680
<v Speaker 1>the crimes and seek some kind of and wanted to

566
00:30:02.680 --> 00:30:07.000
<v Speaker 1>seek some kind of immunity for her. On February seventeenth,

567
00:30:07.200 --> 00:30:11.559
<v Speaker 1>Paul was arrested in conjunction with both the Scarborough rapes

568
00:30:11.799 --> 00:30:15.160
<v Speaker 1>and the murders of Leslie and Christian, with the search

569
00:30:15.200 --> 00:30:19.960
<v Speaker 1>weren't obtained because his link to the murders was weak,

570
00:30:20.359 --> 00:30:21.559
<v Speaker 1>the warrant was limited.

571
00:30:22.599 --> 00:30:26.559
<v Speaker 2>How is it weak? What do you mean, how is

572
00:30:26.799 --> 00:30:28.279
<v Speaker 2>his link to the murders?

573
00:30:28.359 --> 00:30:31.480
<v Speaker 1>And they had think not the so they were not

574
00:30:31.920 --> 00:30:35.440
<v Speaker 1>weak to the rapes. But they didn't have a lot

575
00:30:35.440 --> 00:30:39.559
<v Speaker 1>of edible so the search weren't was mostly like on

576
00:30:39.640 --> 00:30:43.279
<v Speaker 1>the grounds that he was just the Scarborough rapist and

577
00:30:43.440 --> 00:30:44.759
<v Speaker 1>didn't murder these two girls.

578
00:30:44.839 --> 00:30:47.119
<v Speaker 2>Well, search weren't still allows them to search as ship

579
00:30:47.240 --> 00:30:47.680
<v Speaker 2>for stuff.

580
00:30:47.839 --> 00:30:49.920
<v Speaker 1>Well okay, well I'm about I was about to get in.

581
00:30:50.559 --> 00:30:53.240
<v Speaker 2>Sorry, sorry, I was.

582
00:30:53.200 --> 00:30:55.720
<v Speaker 1>About to say everything the warrant was limited, and then

583
00:30:55.759 --> 00:30:57.880
<v Speaker 1>I was going to say how it was limited, okay

584
00:30:58.000 --> 00:30:59.480
<v Speaker 1>before you had your little hissy.

585
00:31:00.119 --> 00:31:01.440
<v Speaker 2>Sorry, I want to know this shit.

586
00:31:02.200 --> 00:31:06.599
<v Speaker 1>No evidence which was not expected and documented in the

587
00:31:06.640 --> 00:31:10.559
<v Speaker 1>warrant could be removed from the premises, and all videotapes

588
00:31:10.599 --> 00:31:12.920
<v Speaker 1>found by police had to be viewed in the house.

589
00:31:13.880 --> 00:31:16.640
<v Speaker 1>Damage had to be kept to a minimum. Police could

590
00:31:16.720 --> 00:31:23.400
<v Speaker 1>not tear down walls looking for videotapes. That was what

591
00:31:23.480 --> 00:31:24.240
<v Speaker 1>it was limited to.

592
00:31:24.640 --> 00:31:25.920
<v Speaker 2>Were the fucking tapes in the walls.

593
00:31:25.960 --> 00:31:30.200
<v Speaker 1>So an extension extensive library of books and videos on

594
00:31:30.359 --> 00:31:35.680
<v Speaker 1>sexual deviation, porn and serial killers was found, as well

595
00:31:35.720 --> 00:31:38.839
<v Speaker 1>as a written description from Paul of every one of

596
00:31:38.880 --> 00:31:44.720
<v Speaker 1>the Scarborough rapes. Unfortunately, the only home videotape found was

597
00:31:44.759 --> 00:31:48.880
<v Speaker 1>a brief segment of Carla performing oral sex on Jane

598
00:31:48.880 --> 00:31:51.720
<v Speaker 1>Doe that.

599
00:31:53.559 --> 00:31:57.200
<v Speaker 2>Wow, yeah, so the tapes were in the fucking walls, weren't.

600
00:31:56.920 --> 00:32:02.880
<v Speaker 1>They, yeah, or the ceiling or something. Yeah. Shortly after that,

601
00:32:03.759 --> 00:32:09.440
<v Speaker 1>George George Walker, which was Carla's lawyer, and Murray Siegel

602
00:32:10.079 --> 00:32:13.440
<v Speaker 1>Sigel I don't know who was a plea bargain specialist

603
00:32:13.720 --> 00:32:17.240
<v Speaker 1>for the Attorney General, informed Carla that the government was

604
00:32:17.279 --> 00:32:22.160
<v Speaker 1>offering her a plea bargain. She would get twelve years

605
00:32:22.160 --> 00:32:25.680
<v Speaker 1>in prison and be eligible for parole in as little

606
00:32:25.680 --> 00:32:31.240
<v Speaker 1>as three years with good behavior. The government even agreed

607
00:32:31.920 --> 00:32:36.319
<v Speaker 1>to content contact the parole Board on Carla's behalf, pointing

608
00:32:36.359 --> 00:32:40.000
<v Speaker 1>out to them the importance of her testimony against Paul.

609
00:32:41.240 --> 00:32:44.359
<v Speaker 1>In exchange for this, Carla would agree to tell the

610
00:32:44.440 --> 00:32:47.960
<v Speaker 1>absolute truth about her involvement in the crimes and everything

611
00:32:48.000 --> 00:32:53.880
<v Speaker 1>she knew about them. Carla obviously agreed unconditionally, and she.

612
00:32:53.799 --> 00:32:58.799
<v Speaker 2>Doesn't tell the truth spoiler alert. I'm sure I don't know.

613
00:32:59.160 --> 00:33:03.240
<v Speaker 1>She maybe does, but she also plays, She also.

614
00:33:03.000 --> 00:33:05.039
<v Speaker 2>Makes her she downplays her involvement.

615
00:33:05.079 --> 00:33:07.119
<v Speaker 1>She's a victim in her eyes, she's.

616
00:33:06.960 --> 00:33:09.519
<v Speaker 2>A victim of Paul, which I did kind of say

617
00:33:09.559 --> 00:33:12.079
<v Speaker 2>that in the other episode. I felt bad for her

618
00:33:12.079 --> 00:33:14.319
<v Speaker 2>because she's just so like taken by this dude that

619
00:33:14.440 --> 00:33:15.519
<v Speaker 2>she's willing to do everything.

620
00:33:15.880 --> 00:33:21.960
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but she's actively took in and like I also

621
00:33:21.960 --> 00:33:23.880
<v Speaker 1>feel like she had the opportunity to leave him.

622
00:33:24.359 --> 00:33:30.240
<v Speaker 2>Yes, I agree, she is partly a victim. However, yes,

623
00:33:30.279 --> 00:33:32.880
<v Speaker 2>she is also a fucking predator, a rapist her I know.

624
00:33:32.920 --> 00:33:34.160
<v Speaker 1>Well, yeah, he's a charmer.

625
00:33:34.359 --> 00:33:36.960
<v Speaker 2>Would she have done those things if it weren't for him,

626
00:33:37.880 --> 00:33:40.640
<v Speaker 2>Probably not, So that is where I think she is

627
00:33:40.680 --> 00:33:43.200
<v Speaker 2>a victim. However, she's still a fucking piece of shit

628
00:33:43.279 --> 00:33:45.200
<v Speaker 2>because she did it all too. She was involved.

629
00:33:45.880 --> 00:33:47.599
<v Speaker 1>Okay, so this next part is a bit of a

630
00:33:47.599 --> 00:33:51.400
<v Speaker 1>tear jerker. In March, Carla would be checked into psychiatric

631
00:33:51.480 --> 00:33:55.519
<v Speaker 1>hospital for assessment. She also eventually got up the courage

632
00:33:56.079 --> 00:33:59.519
<v Speaker 1>to write a very important letter. Do you have any

633
00:33:59.519 --> 00:34:00.920
<v Speaker 1>idea who the letter would.

634
00:34:00.680 --> 00:34:01.759
<v Speaker 2>Be to her sister?

635
00:34:02.559 --> 00:34:03.200
<v Speaker 1>Her parents?

636
00:34:03.359 --> 00:34:05.920
<v Speaker 2>Oh? I thought it was gonna be like a beyond

637
00:34:05.920 --> 00:34:07.079
<v Speaker 2>the grave letter sort of thing.

638
00:34:07.240 --> 00:34:12.360
<v Speaker 1>Okay, And it said, dear Mom, Dad, and Laurie, this

639
00:34:12.400 --> 00:34:15.320
<v Speaker 1>is the hardest letter I'll ever have to write, and

640
00:34:15.360 --> 00:34:17.920
<v Speaker 1>you'll probably all hate me once you read it. I've

641
00:34:18.000 --> 00:34:21.119
<v Speaker 1>kept this inside myself for so long, and I just

642
00:34:21.159 --> 00:34:24.639
<v Speaker 1>can't lie to you anymore. Both Paul and I are

643
00:34:24.679 --> 00:34:29.639
<v Speaker 1>responsible for Tammy's death. I could like almost cry. Paul

644
00:34:29.800 --> 00:34:31.960
<v Speaker 1>was in love with her and wanted to have sex

645
00:34:32.039 --> 00:34:35.360
<v Speaker 1>with her. He wanted me to help him. He wanted

646
00:34:35.400 --> 00:34:37.880
<v Speaker 1>me to get sleeping pills from work to drug her.

647
00:34:38.719 --> 00:34:41.920
<v Speaker 1>He threatened me and physically and emotionally abused me when

648
00:34:42.000 --> 00:34:45.360
<v Speaker 1>I refused. No words I can say can make you

649
00:34:45.480 --> 00:34:49.400
<v Speaker 1>understand what he put me through. So stupidly, I agreed

650
00:34:49.440 --> 00:34:53.360
<v Speaker 1>to do as he said, but something, maybe the combination

651
00:34:53.480 --> 00:34:56.320
<v Speaker 1>of drugs and the food she ate that night, caused

652
00:34:56.360 --> 00:34:59.239
<v Speaker 1>her to vomit. I tried so hard to save her.

653
00:34:59.679 --> 00:35:03.239
<v Speaker 1>I am I'm so sorry, but my words, but no

654
00:35:03.360 --> 00:35:06.039
<v Speaker 1>words I can say, can bring her back. I would

655
00:35:06.079 --> 00:35:08.480
<v Speaker 1>gladly give my life for her. I don't expect you

656
00:35:08.519 --> 00:35:11.320
<v Speaker 1>to ever forgive me, for I will never forgive myself.

657
00:35:11.960 --> 00:35:19.400
<v Speaker 1>Carla xo XO. Wow, isn't that really fucking sad?

658
00:35:19.519 --> 00:35:20.280
<v Speaker 2>That's heartbreaking?

659
00:35:20.440 --> 00:35:23.079
<v Speaker 1>Like it actually like makes me feel more sweaty. And

660
00:35:23.079 --> 00:35:24.599
<v Speaker 1>it's not just because we're in a heat wave, because

661
00:35:24.639 --> 00:35:28.119
<v Speaker 1>it's so sad, Like, it's so sad it's so sad.

662
00:35:28.280 --> 00:35:30.119
<v Speaker 2>Drink some of your white claw might help take the

663
00:35:30.159 --> 00:35:34.679
<v Speaker 2>sweatiness away. But no, definitely, that's that's straight from the heart.

664
00:35:34.840 --> 00:35:39.880
<v Speaker 2>That's that's serious. And she's definitely feeling some not resentment

665
00:35:40.320 --> 00:35:45.599
<v Speaker 2>to her family or even necessarily towards fucking what's his nat, Paul,

666
00:35:46.000 --> 00:35:49.000
<v Speaker 2>but a lot towards herself for what she did rightfully.

667
00:35:49.039 --> 00:35:54.079
<v Speaker 1>So, but then also she is just like she's smart, right,

668
00:35:54.159 --> 00:35:56.760
<v Speaker 1>and I think that she was she actually writing that

669
00:35:56.840 --> 00:36:00.519
<v Speaker 1>letter from the heart or was it like trying to

670
00:36:00.559 --> 00:36:04.519
<v Speaker 1>make the letter seem like she's a good person that

671
00:36:04.639 --> 00:36:08.760
<v Speaker 1>just got caught up in something potentially, I don't know.

672
00:36:08.960 --> 00:36:10.800
<v Speaker 1>I mean, she didn't even nearly necessarily have to write

673
00:36:10.800 --> 00:36:13.400
<v Speaker 1>a letter to her family really if she didn't want to.

674
00:36:15.199 --> 00:36:17.039
<v Speaker 2>So Carla doesn't forgive her for what she did.

675
00:36:17.360 --> 00:36:20.960
<v Speaker 1>She's still a piece of shit, you know, like just brutal.

676
00:36:22.440 --> 00:36:26.400
<v Speaker 1>Carla's trial began on June twenty eighth, nineteen ninety three,

677
00:36:26.880 --> 00:36:30.639
<v Speaker 1>her psychiatric report helping to set the stage for the

678
00:36:31.119 --> 00:36:35.559
<v Speaker 1>plea bargain deal. It concluded that Carla knew what was happening,

679
00:36:35.880 --> 00:36:38.920
<v Speaker 1>but she felt totally helpless and unable to act in

680
00:36:38.960 --> 00:36:44.199
<v Speaker 1>her own defense. Or anyone else's defense. She was, in

681
00:36:44.280 --> 00:36:48.159
<v Speaker 1>my opinion, like the psychiatric report, paralyzed with fear and

682
00:36:48.239 --> 00:36:51.960
<v Speaker 1>the state, and in that state became obedient and self serving.

683
00:36:52.920 --> 00:36:55.639
<v Speaker 1>Have a question, Apparently you do, because your hand's been raised,

684
00:36:55.679 --> 00:36:58.039
<v Speaker 1>and I was like, hold on, hold on.

685
00:36:58.760 --> 00:37:02.360
<v Speaker 2>So did she write that letter before her psychiatric evaluation

686
00:37:02.480 --> 00:37:04.280
<v Speaker 2>in the report for her plea deal?

687
00:37:06.760 --> 00:37:07.599
<v Speaker 1>Do I know that?

688
00:37:08.079 --> 00:37:11.679
<v Speaker 2>Because if she did, then I think it most likely

689
00:37:11.880 --> 00:37:14.880
<v Speaker 2>was a ploy to better her position.

690
00:37:15.039 --> 00:37:17.360
<v Speaker 1>I feel like, well, she wrote it before she was

691
00:37:17.360 --> 00:37:19.000
<v Speaker 1>in court, then yeah, it.

692
00:37:18.960 --> 00:37:22.079
<v Speaker 2>Was most likely upon in her scheme, because as far

693
00:37:22.079 --> 00:37:25.480
<v Speaker 2>as I'm concerned, because there's there's two ways I see it.

694
00:37:25.559 --> 00:37:28.760
<v Speaker 2>Either A she and I do think she is partly

695
00:37:28.800 --> 00:37:31.400
<v Speaker 2>a victim in this whole thing. So either A she

696
00:37:31.639 --> 00:37:36.039
<v Speaker 2>is showing she's a victim and showing she is, though

697
00:37:36.079 --> 00:37:39.880
<v Speaker 2>still a piece of shit, still part human. Or B

698
00:37:40.239 --> 00:37:41.960
<v Speaker 2>she has no emotions about it and she's trying to

699
00:37:41.960 --> 00:37:44.400
<v Speaker 2>fucking play the system and get some fucking benefit out

700
00:37:44.400 --> 00:37:44.639
<v Speaker 2>of it.

701
00:37:45.000 --> 00:37:47.800
<v Speaker 1>One of those well, because something I had even not said,

702
00:37:48.360 --> 00:37:51.679
<v Speaker 1>I forgot to actually mention it. But like there was

703
00:37:51.719 --> 00:37:54.960
<v Speaker 1>some jealousy too with her sister, right, Oh yeah, because

704
00:37:55.000 --> 00:37:58.400
<v Speaker 1>like Paul was flirting with her, and then I think

705
00:37:58.440 --> 00:38:00.760
<v Speaker 1>her sister kind of liked it and was even like

706
00:38:01.119 --> 00:38:04.840
<v Speaker 1>I'm younger and prettier and stuff, and so I could

707
00:38:04.840 --> 00:38:08.920
<v Speaker 1>see it there was like some resentment there. But then

708
00:38:08.960 --> 00:38:11.360
<v Speaker 1>I also don't know, I don't think that when they

709
00:38:11.400 --> 00:38:13.679
<v Speaker 1>did that and when they were taking planning to take

710
00:38:13.719 --> 00:38:17.639
<v Speaker 1>her virginity, that they didn't plan to kill her. And honestly,

711
00:38:17.719 --> 00:38:20.760
<v Speaker 1>Paul was actually mad for a long time at Carla

712
00:38:20.880 --> 00:38:24.880
<v Speaker 1>that he killed her because he like that she killed her.

713
00:38:24.960 --> 00:38:29.119
<v Speaker 2>I mean yeah, but also they were pissed off at

714
00:38:29.280 --> 00:38:31.119
<v Speaker 2>Carla's parents were not getting over it soon enough for

715
00:38:31.159 --> 00:38:31.519
<v Speaker 2>the wedding.

716
00:38:32.039 --> 00:38:33.440
<v Speaker 1>Well Carla was yeah.

717
00:38:33.280 --> 00:38:35.119
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So clearly she doesn't have much remorse.

718
00:38:35.440 --> 00:38:38.960
<v Speaker 1>I know, I don't know. I know, like when at

719
00:38:39.000 --> 00:38:41.760
<v Speaker 1>the end we can talk about it, and I feel

720
00:38:41.760 --> 00:38:44.159
<v Speaker 1>like I, in the sense could feel bad for Carla,

721
00:38:44.199 --> 00:38:47.920
<v Speaker 1>But I also don't think that she's as victim as

722
00:38:47.920 --> 00:38:50.000
<v Speaker 1>she came across, and in my opinion.

723
00:38:49.800 --> 00:38:51.719
<v Speaker 2>I don't think so either. I do you think there's

724
00:38:52.000 --> 00:38:55.960
<v Speaker 2>she's still partly a victim, but she's wholly responsible.

725
00:38:55.400 --> 00:38:58.719
<v Speaker 1>Still, well yeah, because like without her meeting him, I

726
00:38:58.719 --> 00:39:03.679
<v Speaker 1>don't know if she would have been criminal. So the

727
00:39:03.760 --> 00:39:07.519
<v Speaker 1>trial ended with the media only being allowed to report

728
00:39:07.760 --> 00:39:10.199
<v Speaker 1>on a few details of the case so that the

729
00:39:10.320 --> 00:39:13.639
<v Speaker 1>jury pool that would be selected for Paul's trial would

730
00:39:13.679 --> 00:39:17.599
<v Speaker 1>not be tainted by information they heard prior to his trial.

731
00:39:19.519 --> 00:39:24.480
<v Speaker 1>Expecting a public oak cry over the plea bargain, Murray,

732
00:39:24.480 --> 00:39:27.719
<v Speaker 1>who was the plea bargain specialist, chose to make a statement,

733
00:39:28.599 --> 00:39:32.840
<v Speaker 1>why not a greater penalty in light of the horrendous facts?

734
00:39:32.840 --> 00:39:35.880
<v Speaker 1>Without her, the true state of affairs might never be

735
00:39:36.000 --> 00:39:40.559
<v Speaker 1>known again. Guilty plea is the traditional hallmark of remorse.

736
00:39:41.599 --> 00:39:44.639
<v Speaker 1>Her age, her lack of criminal record, the abuse and

737
00:39:44.679 --> 00:39:48.639
<v Speaker 1>the influence of her husband, and her somewhat secondary role

738
00:39:48.679 --> 00:39:54.480
<v Speaker 1>were factors. She's unlikely to reoffend. Carla left the trial

739
00:39:54.519 --> 00:39:58.599
<v Speaker 1>after receiving the greed upon sentence and prepared herself for

740
00:39:58.719 --> 00:40:02.400
<v Speaker 1>what was sure to be an ordeal, the trial of

741
00:40:02.440 --> 00:40:03.400
<v Speaker 1>her husband Paul.

742
00:40:04.760 --> 00:40:07.920
<v Speaker 2>Unlikely to re offend, Yeah, that doesn't mean you should

743
00:40:07.920 --> 00:40:11.480
<v Speaker 2>be fucking forgiven or let out in public. Yeah you

744
00:40:11.480 --> 00:40:14.679
<v Speaker 2>can still go fucking kill someone just because you're unlikely

745
00:40:14.760 --> 00:40:15.599
<v Speaker 2>to fuck off.

746
00:40:16.559 --> 00:40:18.840
<v Speaker 1>Well, yeah, like just because you're unlikely too. You did

747
00:40:18.840 --> 00:40:21.000
<v Speaker 1>all this bad shit and should you just be living

748
00:40:21.039 --> 00:40:25.239
<v Speaker 1>a life like people who haven't done that ship exactly.

749
00:40:26.239 --> 00:40:26.800
<v Speaker 1>I don't know.

750
00:40:26.880 --> 00:40:29.639
<v Speaker 2>It's like I just killed and raped, like or evolved

751
00:40:29.639 --> 00:40:32.639
<v Speaker 2>in raping and killing combination of like twelve people. Yeah,

752
00:40:32.719 --> 00:40:34.079
<v Speaker 2>I served a couple of years. Now let's go get

753
00:40:34.079 --> 00:40:36.159
<v Speaker 2>white Claws and have some fucking hot dogs out of Costco.

754
00:40:36.239 --> 00:40:36.880
<v Speaker 2>Like what the fuck?

755
00:40:37.000 --> 00:40:39.639
<v Speaker 1>No, well she had to, like I mean I mentioned

756
00:40:39.679 --> 00:40:42.880
<v Speaker 1>at the end when she had kids. Yeah, those kids

757
00:40:42.960 --> 00:40:45.360
<v Speaker 1>are gonna fuck. They could listen to this podcast one

758
00:40:45.440 --> 00:40:46.880
<v Speaker 1>day and be like, Wow, that's my mom.

759
00:40:47.280 --> 00:40:50.440
<v Speaker 2>Your mom did some bad shit, really bad shit.

760
00:40:51.400 --> 00:40:55.440
<v Speaker 1>So this is this is interesting. The trial of Paul

761
00:40:55.480 --> 00:40:59.519
<v Speaker 1>wouldn't start until May of nineteen ninety five, mainly due

762
00:40:59.559 --> 00:41:02.360
<v Speaker 1>to the fact, Oh sorry, the.

763
00:41:02.320 --> 00:41:03.760
<v Speaker 2>Fact should have leaned away from the mic. If you

764
00:41:03.760 --> 00:41:04.159
<v Speaker 2>get a burp.

765
00:41:04.599 --> 00:41:06.159
<v Speaker 1>I don't think I burped. It was just like a

766
00:41:06.159 --> 00:41:07.519
<v Speaker 1>weird I don't know, a.

767
00:41:07.480 --> 00:41:11.519
<v Speaker 2>Weird what out of body experience.

768
00:41:11.639 --> 00:41:12.599
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's what it was.

769
00:41:13.519 --> 00:41:13.719
<v Speaker 2>Death.

770
00:41:13.920 --> 00:41:17.079
<v Speaker 1>He almost died, Okay, So mainly due to the fact

771
00:41:17.119 --> 00:41:20.400
<v Speaker 1>that Paul had placed his lawyer Ken in a very

772
00:41:20.440 --> 00:41:27.599
<v Speaker 1>difficult ethical situation. Oh, Paul had told Ken where to

773
00:41:27.639 --> 00:41:31.480
<v Speaker 1>get the videotapes, or to where the videotapes were, and

774
00:41:31.519 --> 00:41:32.280
<v Speaker 1>to get them.

775
00:41:32.519 --> 00:41:35.199
<v Speaker 2>Oh, so he's all like, get them and destroy them

776
00:41:35.199 --> 00:41:37.320
<v Speaker 2>for me, get rid of the evidence.

777
00:41:37.599 --> 00:41:42.280
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, motherfucker, believing that by doing this they would never

778
00:41:42.360 --> 00:41:46.519
<v Speaker 1>get into the hands of the prosecutors. However, Carla had

779
00:41:46.519 --> 00:41:51.119
<v Speaker 1>made these videotapes known to the prosecutors, so eventually the

780
00:41:51.119 --> 00:41:54.719
<v Speaker 1>pressure was too much and Ken withdrew from the case.

781
00:41:55.199 --> 00:41:58.440
<v Speaker 1>And he still had the videotapes and he handed them

782
00:41:58.440 --> 00:42:02.400
<v Speaker 1>over to Paul's next law John Rosen, who quickly turned

783
00:42:02.440 --> 00:42:08.920
<v Speaker 1>them in good. So Carla's plea bargain was especially criticized

784
00:42:08.960 --> 00:42:14.000
<v Speaker 1>by many Canadians because of this. The videotapes were withheld

785
00:42:14.159 --> 00:42:19.280
<v Speaker 1>for seventeen months and considered critical evidence. Well no prosecutors

786
00:42:19.280 --> 00:42:22.159
<v Speaker 1>said they would never have agreed to the plea bargain

787
00:42:22.239 --> 00:42:26.320
<v Speaker 1>if they had seen those tapes, because she was very

788
00:42:26.400 --> 00:42:32.639
<v Speaker 1>much so active. Ken Murray Murray, that's the lawyer, the

789
00:42:32.679 --> 00:42:36.199
<v Speaker 1>original lawyer of Paul, was later acquitted of obstruction of

790
00:42:36.400 --> 00:42:40.239
<v Speaker 1>justice and faced a disciplinary hearing by the Laws Society

791
00:42:40.280 --> 00:42:41.079
<v Speaker 1>of Upper Canada.

792
00:42:41.239 --> 00:42:44.599
<v Speaker 2>I was waiting to hear something. He was yeah, good, good.

793
00:42:45.039 --> 00:42:48.440
<v Speaker 1>Like I mean Paul played him though, like he kind

794
00:42:48.440 --> 00:42:51.239
<v Speaker 1>of played him because he was like wanting to defend

795
00:42:51.360 --> 00:42:54.280
<v Speaker 1>his his what would you call that, what would you

796
00:42:54.280 --> 00:42:58.119
<v Speaker 1>call their relafe? Yeah? I think but then if he

797
00:42:58.199 --> 00:43:02.159
<v Speaker 1>turned those in, like he wouldn't definitely like the case

798
00:43:02.159 --> 00:43:04.159
<v Speaker 1>would have been fucked basically, right.

799
00:43:04.320 --> 00:43:08.719
<v Speaker 2>But he's also a human. Yeah, he's now defending what

800
00:43:08.920 --> 00:43:11.800
<v Speaker 2>he's guaranteed to know that someone who's fucking murdered and raped.

801
00:43:12.280 --> 00:43:13.800
<v Speaker 2>He has the evidence to show that, and he's still

802
00:43:13.800 --> 00:43:14.400
<v Speaker 2>going to defend that.

803
00:43:14.679 --> 00:43:15.199
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

804
00:43:15.480 --> 00:43:19.199
<v Speaker 2>I'm at least glad that he's at least stepped back

805
00:43:19.599 --> 00:43:20.119
<v Speaker 2>and passed the.

806
00:43:20.119 --> 00:43:22.440
<v Speaker 1>Tapes on he realized, I mean, it took him a

807
00:43:22.880 --> 00:43:24.800
<v Speaker 1>way too long, but he realized.

808
00:43:24.440 --> 00:43:26.400
<v Speaker 2>He didn't do the right thing, but he didn't do

809
00:43:26.440 --> 00:43:27.840
<v Speaker 2>the wrong thing. Yeah, you know what I mean.

810
00:43:28.119 --> 00:43:32.760
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, So, with the videotapes as critical pieces of evidence,

811
00:43:33.119 --> 00:43:37.039
<v Speaker 1>Paul faced two counts of first agree murder, murder murder,

812
00:43:37.519 --> 00:43:42.400
<v Speaker 1>two counts of aggravated sexual assault, two counts of forcible confinement,

813
00:43:42.840 --> 00:43:46.840
<v Speaker 1>two counts of kidnapping, and one count of performing an

814
00:43:46.880 --> 00:43:50.679
<v Speaker 1>indignity on a human body. And I'm not going to

815
00:43:50.760 --> 00:43:53.760
<v Speaker 1>go into a lot of detail here. Yeah, please don't, well,

816
00:43:53.880 --> 00:43:54.840
<v Speaker 1>like just what the case is.

817
00:43:54.880 --> 00:43:56.519
<v Speaker 2>I mean, Okay, I thought you were taking talk.

818
00:43:58.559 --> 00:44:01.840
<v Speaker 1>He's fucked we already know that with the videos and

819
00:44:01.920 --> 00:44:06.800
<v Speaker 1>Carla testifying, the prosecutors had some very powerful evidence to

820
00:44:06.880 --> 00:44:10.960
<v Speaker 1>convict Paul of the charges, and the defense would attack

821
00:44:11.039 --> 00:44:13.880
<v Speaker 1>Carla's credibility with the goal of showing that she was

822
00:44:13.920 --> 00:44:16.840
<v Speaker 1>not the victim she portrayed herself to be, but a

823
00:44:16.880 --> 00:44:23.079
<v Speaker 1>willing participant, regardless of the degree of Carla's guilt or innocence.

824
00:44:23.679 --> 00:44:27.760
<v Speaker 1>On September first, nineteen ninety five, Paul was convicted on

825
00:44:27.920 --> 00:44:32.440
<v Speaker 1>all the charges against him regarding the kidnappings, rapes and

826
00:44:32.559 --> 00:44:36.440
<v Speaker 1>murders of Leslie. Makes say it wrong again, No, but I.

827
00:44:36.360 --> 00:44:38.559
<v Speaker 2>Was just wanting to mock you again. I was really

828
00:44:38.559 --> 00:44:40.360
<v Speaker 2>waiting for that chance her again.

829
00:44:40.639 --> 00:44:43.920
<v Speaker 1>So rapes and murders of Leslie and Kristen. He also

830
00:44:44.079 --> 00:44:47.719
<v Speaker 1>faced trials and the death of Tammy and the serial

831
00:44:47.840 --> 00:44:52.119
<v Speaker 1>rapes of the rapes of Scarborough. Sentenced to life in

832
00:44:52.159 --> 00:44:55.519
<v Speaker 1>prison without parole for at least twenty five years. He

833
00:44:55.679 --> 00:45:01.239
<v Speaker 1>was designated a dangerous offender, making him very unlikely to

834
00:45:01.320 --> 00:45:02.840
<v Speaker 1>ever be released.

835
00:45:02.639 --> 00:45:03.599
<v Speaker 2>Very unlikely.

836
00:45:05.039 --> 00:45:09.519
<v Speaker 1>It should be well unlikely, very likely he will still

837
00:45:09.559 --> 00:45:10.000
<v Speaker 1>in there.

838
00:45:10.199 --> 00:45:15.800
<v Speaker 2>Good. He's fucking rotten there. He's getting sodomized by some

839
00:45:15.880 --> 00:45:17.000
<v Speaker 2>like really big dude.

840
00:45:17.039 --> 00:45:19.280
<v Speaker 1>Well, I didn't even put that on there. Like he

841
00:45:19.679 --> 00:45:22.880
<v Speaker 1>was always secluded because I think isn't it that people

842
00:45:22.920 --> 00:45:27.199
<v Speaker 1>who rape, especially like rape children basically like they don't

843
00:45:27.239 --> 00:45:28.679
<v Speaker 1>have a fun time in prison do that?

844
00:45:28.719 --> 00:45:31.960
<v Speaker 2>Oh, they generally end up beaten and killed.

845
00:45:32.119 --> 00:45:35.440
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, So he was always secluded, but there was odd times,

846
00:45:35.440 --> 00:45:36.920
<v Speaker 1>like I think there was an attack on him when

847
00:45:36.920 --> 00:45:39.840
<v Speaker 1>he was like coming back from the shower, or like

848
00:45:40.079 --> 00:45:42.360
<v Speaker 1>a mob one time started trying to get at him.

849
00:45:42.639 --> 00:45:46.239
<v Speaker 1>So it wasn't like rainbows in there for him good.

850
00:45:47.760 --> 00:45:50.800
<v Speaker 1>Since being in prison, he has also admitted to even

851
00:45:50.960 --> 00:45:55.400
<v Speaker 1>more sexual assaults of course, and there's a lengthly list

852
00:45:55.440 --> 00:46:01.519
<v Speaker 1>of other potential victims, including a rape that occurred in Hawaii. Well,

853
00:46:01.559 --> 00:46:05.920
<v Speaker 1>the couple was honeymoon honeymooning there, Jesus, So they raped

854
00:46:05.960 --> 00:46:07.920
<v Speaker 1>someone while they were of honeymooning, which I think is

855
00:46:07.960 --> 00:46:12.280
<v Speaker 1>so fucked no kidding. Paul became eligible for day parol

856
00:46:12.320 --> 00:46:16.840
<v Speaker 1>in twenty fifteen, in full parole in twenty eighteen, but

857
00:46:17.000 --> 00:46:20.559
<v Speaker 1>he was denied good. His next parole hearing took place

858
00:46:20.599 --> 00:46:23.400
<v Speaker 1>on June twenty second, twenty twenty one.

859
00:46:23.599 --> 00:46:24.679
<v Speaker 2>So just a couple days ago.

860
00:46:24.840 --> 00:46:28.400
<v Speaker 1>So this case like was just in the news. It

861
00:46:28.440 --> 00:46:33.039
<v Speaker 1>took only one hour of deliberation, but the judge for

862
00:46:33.119 --> 00:46:36.199
<v Speaker 1>his application was turned down. A fuck you, Paul, the

863
00:46:36.280 --> 00:46:41.679
<v Speaker 1>judge turned his application down. As for Carla, she had

864
00:46:41.719 --> 00:46:44.559
<v Speaker 1>to serve her full twelve years, which is good. She

865
00:46:44.679 --> 00:46:47.280
<v Speaker 1>never did get like the parole after three years. I

866
00:46:47.320 --> 00:46:50.559
<v Speaker 1>think because of stuff that came up with like the

867
00:46:50.679 --> 00:46:53.840
<v Speaker 1>videos and stuff, they like realized they can probably fucked

868
00:46:53.920 --> 00:46:56.199
<v Speaker 1>up with her. So they did make her stay the

869
00:46:56.239 --> 00:46:59.320
<v Speaker 1>whole twelve years, which is good. But she was released

870
00:46:59.320 --> 00:47:02.039
<v Speaker 1>from prison in two thousand and five and she now

871
00:47:02.079 --> 00:47:07.320
<v Speaker 1>goes by the name of Leanne Borderless something like that,

872
00:47:07.920 --> 00:47:11.800
<v Speaker 1>and is married with two children. And she keeps getting

873
00:47:11.840 --> 00:47:17.400
<v Speaker 1>like being in places and then like being discovered. I think, yeah,

874
00:47:17.519 --> 00:47:19.440
<v Speaker 1>so they like move around a lot. Right now, they're

875
00:47:19.440 --> 00:47:24.760
<v Speaker 1>in Oh my gosh, saw a buried the valley field

876
00:47:25.360 --> 00:47:28.519
<v Speaker 1>or something, and it's a city in southwestern Quebec. She

877
00:47:28.559 --> 00:47:30.760
<v Speaker 1>didn't actually live in Canada for a period, like she

878
00:47:30.840 --> 00:47:33.719
<v Speaker 1>was in the Caribbean and stuff. But they came back the.

879
00:47:33.719 --> 00:47:37.920
<v Speaker 2>Caribbean or Caribbean. It's like tomato tomato.

880
00:47:38.079 --> 00:47:39.519
<v Speaker 1>I don't know actually which one now.

881
00:47:39.639 --> 00:47:41.960
<v Speaker 2>Some people say one, some say the other. Like pirates

882
00:47:41.960 --> 00:47:43.440
<v Speaker 2>of the Caribbean or Pirates.

883
00:47:43.079 --> 00:47:47.800
<v Speaker 1>Of the Caribbean, Caribbean Caribbean. I would probably say, yeah,

884
00:47:47.840 --> 00:47:50.639
<v Speaker 1>and this is just an interesting tidbit too that might

885
00:47:50.719 --> 00:47:54.400
<v Speaker 1>make you like, feo, Carla's better, but you know, the

886
00:47:54.559 --> 00:47:59.199
<v Speaker 1>like psychopath checklist or the score you can get. Yeah,

887
00:47:59.320 --> 00:48:03.159
<v Speaker 1>so Paul's were thirty five out of forty and Carla

888
00:48:03.320 --> 00:48:08.000
<v Speaker 1>was five out of forty. Huh, I actually want to

889
00:48:08.000 --> 00:48:10.639
<v Speaker 1>take it. What happened to my score? To high?

890
00:48:10.639 --> 00:48:13.320
<v Speaker 2>It'd be like, holy would be surprised.

891
00:48:13.519 --> 00:48:15.599
<v Speaker 1>What do you mean You wouldn't be surprised.

892
00:48:15.639 --> 00:48:18.480
<v Speaker 2>You're generally really good at tests. You'd get a good score.

893
00:48:18.519 --> 00:48:21.639
<v Speaker 1>I'd want to try to get a good score. So yeah,

894
00:48:21.719 --> 00:48:22.440
<v Speaker 1>there you have it.

895
00:48:22.559 --> 00:48:25.880
<v Speaker 2>Well, those people are are trash. What's her name now,

896
00:48:25.960 --> 00:48:30.400
<v Speaker 2>Leslie or something? Which one Carla's new name, oh.

897
00:48:32.559 --> 00:48:36.320
<v Speaker 1>Leanne Leanne. Yeah. So if there's a Leanne that you

898
00:48:36.360 --> 00:48:41.039
<v Speaker 1>know living in southwestern Quebec, you maybe might want to

899
00:48:41.079 --> 00:48:42.360
<v Speaker 1>ask her a couple questions.

900
00:48:42.480 --> 00:48:45.679
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, be like do you rape those people?

901
00:48:46.840 --> 00:48:49.280
<v Speaker 1>Yeah? I mean I wouldn't want her to be my neighbor.

902
00:48:49.679 --> 00:48:51.599
<v Speaker 1>But then there was people that said that she was

903
00:48:51.639 --> 00:48:54.679
<v Speaker 1>actually like a pretty good neighbor, like quiet, She's probably

904
00:48:54.719 --> 00:48:55.320
<v Speaker 1>quiet as.

905
00:48:55.199 --> 00:48:57.800
<v Speaker 2>Fuck, probably keeps to herself as best as she can,

906
00:48:58.000 --> 00:48:58.920
<v Speaker 2>I would imagine.

907
00:48:59.239 --> 00:49:03.559
<v Speaker 1>So you're like, I feel like your almost team Carla

908
00:49:04.800 --> 00:49:09.039
<v Speaker 1>not being manipulated quite badly by Paul, aren't you.

909
00:49:09.239 --> 00:49:11.480
<v Speaker 2>Oh no, she was one hundredercent kuilty. She was definitely

910
00:49:11.559 --> 00:49:12.760
<v Speaker 2>she did it on her own free will.

911
00:49:12.840 --> 00:49:14.920
<v Speaker 1>And you think she should have got more than twelve years?

912
00:49:15.119 --> 00:49:19.159
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, for sure. I think the only way Paul

913
00:49:19.239 --> 00:49:23.079
<v Speaker 2>really manipulated her. I'm sure she was abused to some degree,

914
00:49:23.719 --> 00:49:26.880
<v Speaker 2>but I think the only way that he really manipulated

915
00:49:26.880 --> 00:49:28.519
<v Speaker 2>her in the way she was a victim is she

916
00:49:28.599 --> 00:49:31.079
<v Speaker 2>just loved him and just did what. Yeah, like she

917
00:49:32.239 --> 00:49:34.119
<v Speaker 2>feelings is what got her in it.

918
00:49:34.039 --> 00:49:37.840
<v Speaker 1>After being beaten and stuff. She stayed for some time

919
00:49:37.960 --> 00:49:40.960
<v Speaker 1>like that last summer. Basically, yeah, she did divorce.

920
00:49:40.639 --> 00:49:44.280
<v Speaker 2>Him, well, even before any beatings or abuse came, Like

921
00:49:45.239 --> 00:49:47.480
<v Speaker 2>when they were first getting together in stuff and he

922
00:49:47.559 --> 00:49:50.239
<v Speaker 2>first brought up the whole prospect of like fucking raping

923
00:49:50.280 --> 00:49:51.840
<v Speaker 2>people and stuff, and she's like, oh, that's cool.

924
00:49:52.440 --> 00:49:56.280
<v Speaker 1>I know, that's that's on cool, Like she could have

925
00:49:56.360 --> 00:49:57.159
<v Speaker 1>ran for the hill.

926
00:49:57.199 --> 00:50:00.719
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and that's on her because that's her feet. I

927
00:50:00.760 --> 00:50:05.320
<v Speaker 2>understand she's getting like physically abused mentally abused later on,

928
00:50:05.679 --> 00:50:08.159
<v Speaker 2>and that's some serious trap shit that it's really hard

929
00:50:08.159 --> 00:50:11.320
<v Speaker 2>to get out of. That's on Paul. But shit where

930
00:50:11.360 --> 00:50:14.159
<v Speaker 2>she's just like, oh that's cool. Nah, that's on you.

931
00:50:14.159 --> 00:50:17.039
<v Speaker 2>You are a victim there more so well not that

932
00:50:17.119 --> 00:50:20.400
<v Speaker 2>she's not a victim of abuse, she is abuse, but yeah,

933
00:50:20.480 --> 00:50:24.519
<v Speaker 2>getting roped in is the love factor. The honeymoon stage

934
00:50:24.679 --> 00:50:25.559
<v Speaker 2>is what roped her in.

935
00:50:26.079 --> 00:50:28.880
<v Speaker 1>And I mean I think more influ Like I learned

936
00:50:28.880 --> 00:50:30.960
<v Speaker 1>so much and there's even things that I left out

937
00:50:31.000 --> 00:50:33.159
<v Speaker 1>because I didn't want this to be like five hours long,

938
00:50:33.559 --> 00:50:36.000
<v Speaker 1>but something that came back, Like Paul was good at

939
00:50:36.159 --> 00:50:39.519
<v Speaker 1>charming and manipulating people even when he was in prison.

940
00:50:39.599 --> 00:50:43.280
<v Speaker 1>At one point he almost got married to someone. Fuck

941
00:50:43.559 --> 00:50:45.679
<v Speaker 1>like you might you could look up that article or whatever,

942
00:50:45.719 --> 00:50:48.360
<v Speaker 1>and I don't think it actually happened. And this person

943
00:50:48.519 --> 00:50:52.800
<v Speaker 1>was like an educated person. I mean Carlo was smart too,

944
00:50:54.440 --> 00:50:56.920
<v Speaker 1>but like she literally believed that he was like he

945
00:50:56.960 --> 00:51:01.239
<v Speaker 1>made her believe that he was innocent. Wow, Like so

946
00:51:01.320 --> 00:51:03.400
<v Speaker 1>I mean he had he had some power, he had

947
00:51:03.440 --> 00:51:05.239
<v Speaker 1>some charm to him for sure.

948
00:51:06.679 --> 00:51:11.840
<v Speaker 2>Well he's hopefully in he rot forever and hopefully Laura Leslie,

949
00:51:11.960 --> 00:51:14.320
<v Speaker 2>what was her fucking name again, the new one. Yes,

950
00:51:16.599 --> 00:51:17.519
<v Speaker 2>you don't remember it either.

951
00:51:18.159 --> 00:51:21.400
<v Speaker 1>No, because I don't care about her she is.

952
00:51:21.480 --> 00:51:22.519
<v Speaker 2>I'm terrible with names.

953
00:51:22.639 --> 00:51:26.320
<v Speaker 1>Will I was going to say Leanne was the only.

954
00:51:26.199 --> 00:51:28.280
<v Speaker 2>Reason I'm wanting to say her name multiple times is

955
00:51:28.679 --> 00:51:30.239
<v Speaker 2>because I want to fucking out her.

956
00:51:30.400 --> 00:51:34.920
<v Speaker 1>Leanne bordialis b O R D E l A. I S.

957
00:51:35.119 --> 00:51:38.840
<v Speaker 2>There you go, her being out. I hope that she

958
00:51:39.039 --> 00:51:41.079
<v Speaker 2>keeps getting found out, and I hope that she has

959
00:51:41.119 --> 00:51:43.000
<v Speaker 2>to keep moving, and I hope that she has to

960
00:51:43.039 --> 00:51:43.559
<v Speaker 2>keep hiding.

961
00:51:44.000 --> 00:51:46.719
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but I also don't think that she's going to

962
00:51:46.800 --> 00:51:48.239
<v Speaker 1>ever make like another stink.

963
00:51:48.840 --> 00:51:49.360
<v Speaker 2>She better not.

964
00:51:49.480 --> 00:51:51.679
<v Speaker 1>I would be surprised if she ever came up again.

965
00:51:52.079 --> 00:51:57.320
<v Speaker 2>She better fucking not. So anyway, that's that well done

966
00:51:57.360 --> 00:51:58.159
<v Speaker 2>your first two parter.

967
00:51:58.400 --> 00:52:00.719
<v Speaker 1>I get myself in to. I think that's why I

968
00:52:00.760 --> 00:52:05.199
<v Speaker 1>was putting this case all getting around. Thank you, Thank you.

969
00:52:05.280 --> 00:52:05.760
<v Speaker 1>It's fine.

970
00:52:06.360 --> 00:52:08.880
<v Speaker 2>Well here, cheers for that two parter.

971
00:52:09.039 --> 00:52:11.159
<v Speaker 1>Cheers, and I can drink my white claw ye and make.

972
00:52:11.039 --> 00:52:12.679
<v Speaker 2>Sure you guys come back for the next episode and

973
00:52:12.679 --> 00:52:13.239
<v Speaker 2>make sure.

974
00:52:13.039 --> 00:52:16.679
<v Speaker 1>You stay wicked.

975
00:52:16.880 --> 00:52:17.159
<v Speaker 2>I know