Speaker 1: To know the Cougar's opponents and rivals Right now, you know.
Speaker 2: The faux segment on Cougar Sports with Ben Kretelber.
Speaker 3: Welcome back Cougar Sports one O three nine ninety eight
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by my side, Vicram on the data, It's time to
get to know the foe BYU versus Utah, the Holy War.
We love this rivalry. It's it's one of the best one,
I think. Finally, the national media and the national college
football audiences, they're finally realizing now that both teams are
in the same conference at the P four level and
their rank, just how unique and singular this robbery is.
They're being introduced to it at a high level and can't.
Speaker 1: Wait to see how this particular.
Speaker 3: Game turns out, how the the oblong shaped ball bounces
this particular weekend.
Speaker 1: So let's get to know the foe.
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Welcome in host of the Shan O'Connell Show on ESPN
seven hundred, The real oc Sean O'Connell's on the line.
Speaker 1: What's up, Sean.
Speaker 2: It's Holy War Week, the best week of the year
in the Utah sports Callum, we got what's a little
over twenty four hours to wait for kickoff? It's like
Christmas in October. Great stuff, bro, Like I.
Speaker 3: Just don't think that the national media really knows what
this rivalry is all about. Like they're starting to kind
of grasp hold, Like Dave Poytnoy has been retweeting some
of these things, like there was a young man arrested
for like threatening to kill people. I mean, there's not
things that we're trying to celebrate here, but it's insane
what has occurred last year. Right, Mark carl runs onto
the football field with time remaining and is barking at
the refs. He goes to the press conference and gives
a five minute rant. There's a water bottle thrown from
the stands that knocks out a cheerleader. We have the
old school like two thousand game or whatever, where cheerleader
tackled by a BYU fan. The cheerleader beats him up.
Like you just go down the list of things the
quotes that the rivalry nationally is starting to get known,
and I think it's going to be considered one of
the best rivalry games in college football in the years
to come. Give me your thoughts on the unique and
singular nature of this rivalry.
Speaker 4: Well, I think you're absolutely right, You're spot on. It
should be thought of.
Speaker 2: That on that level Nationally, it is unique for a
lot of different reasons because of you know, the religious
element to it, which makes it a more of a
passion point for a lot of people. And I guess
we'd have to go through all the other coaching staffs
and all the other rivalry games, and all the other
rosters and all the other rivalry games. But the incestuous
nature of this thing makes it so close to home
for everybody. I mean, I don't know how common it
is for Alabama coaches to have played at Auburn or
vice versa. I don't know how common it is for, like,
you know, a Tennessee coach to have really come up
and cut his teeth in a floor at a system
or a Notre Dame in USC to have that kind
of crossover. Those are all great rivalries. But the proximity
and the fact that somebody on both of these both
sides of everything, right, somebody has it uncle le grandpa,
a dad, a mom whose alma.
Speaker 4: Mater was the rival school. It's just it's awesome.
Speaker 2: It's so passionate, and it is statistically one of the
closest rivalries from a one score game perspective. I just
learned this fact yesterday that in the last thirty years,
nineteen of those games have been one score games, which
is most in the country for any rivalry games. So
the fact that finally it's getting a little bit of
natural attention, it's ranked versus ranked conference championship implications, just
like when both teams were back in the Mountain West,
but this time on a Power five stage. I guess
we have to stay Power four now. It just makes
it that much better, and you know we're getting attention.
Big noon kickoff is going to be there. Give the
country just a little glimpse into how as that this
thing really is.
Speaker 4: It's amazing.
Speaker 3: Why is Utah favored in this game? Why will you know?
Why is it that they could come out victorious in
this game at Lavelle Edward Stadium.
Speaker 2: In your opinion, I think that people are still convinced
that Utah's got one of the best offensive lines in
the country. And I think that there's skepticism that BYU
is tested at the same level to this point, and
some of that has justified, some of it probably isn't.
I also think that sportsbooks don't love freshman quarterbacks and
bear Backmeyer has certainly outperformed a lot of expectations and
is starting to play himself out of the Well, you're
a freshman quarterback, so you're going to make mistakes conversations.
But he still is only six games, six starts into
his career. And I think that those are the reasons
why people feel like you thought should be the favorite
in this game. Anyone who pays attention to it, anyone
who knows looks at three and a half points on
the road in Utah's favor according to the books, and
you're just like, man, this this feels like one of
those games where they're so evenly matched. All of the
other numbers show that they're pretty evenly matched, and more
often than not, this comes down to a turnover here,
a block something there, a penalty flag is with the
case in last year's game that either gets thrown or doesn't,
and then you know a kick is made and b
WHYU ends up with a road win. So it feels
more like that type of a game to me than
even three and a half points in Utah's favor, which,
of course for a road game, means that Vegas thinks
that Utah is like almost a touchdown favorite. And I
don't know how confident I feel in that from.
Speaker 3: An analytics standpoint. Maybe when you compare contrast objective data points, productivity, efficiency,
strength of schedule, what do you see on that front?
Speaker 1: Have you delved into any of that on your On
your show this week.
Speaker 2: I've been doing over the numbers more from like a hey,
what do you do with your run game? What do
you do in you know, kind of the tackles for lost,
the havoc defensive havoc plays, and the turnover margin situations,
because I do believe that that's where games like this
are decided at the.
Speaker 4: Line of scrimmage, to lean into.
Speaker 2: The old cliche, and then the big time impact plays
that are made when you start your drive on a
short field and those are often turnovers. Of course, those
are often you know, the the strip sack and the
quick change type plays, and you know they kind of
net out pretty evenly in a lot.
Speaker 4: Of those numbers. The most hilarious one that I.
Speaker 2: That I dived into today on my show these quarterbacks.
You might know the answer to this already, because I
know you do your research a lot. So total yard
is two deal turn quarterbacks squaring off. Do you know
what the gutting for a total yard and standpoint responsible
for a past How these guys? How many yards these
each of these quarterbacks are accounting for on average so
far through six games.
Speaker 1: Sorry, Sean, you're kind of cutting out a little bit.
Speaker 3: I don't know if we need to reconnect, getting a
little bit robotic that may be on our end. I
don't know if Zach if we want to, you know, reconnect,
but let's just reconnect really quick and then he can
pose that same question to us about the quarterbacks. I
did to hear that, you know, comparing maybe contrasting these
two quarterbacks and what they do well. So Shawn back
with us now, then yeah, you sound a lot better
so you can hear me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, yeah, yeah, you.
Speaker 3: Got a little bit robotic there, So it could have
been on our end as well. So go ahead and
restate that question.
Speaker 2: Okay, So, so I was going, I was looking at,
you know, baar Bachmeyer versus Devin Dampier, even though that's
not the matchup, that that's the dual, Right, Sure, Devin
Dampier is responsible for two and fifty one and a
half yards per game on average so far this year.
How many do you think that bear Bachmeyer's accounting for
total offense rushing, passing yards, et cetera. Two fifty one
and a half for Devin Dan Pierre. How many yards
do you think separate him and bear Bachmeyer?
Speaker 1: Gosh, it's got to be pretty close.
Speaker 3: I mean because Bear's thrown for what twelve hundred and
then rush for about three hundred, So I mean, yeah,
I mean, you're you're right there through six games.
Speaker 1: It's pretty god to stay close.
Speaker 2: It's literally one yard. It's two fifty one and a
half versus two fifty two and a half, right, Like God,
these teams are not just brothers battling it out. They
are twin brothers battling it out. And there's always one twin.
If you grew up with knowing any twins, if there's
twins in your family, you always know that there's one
who's just slightly better at everything than the other, especially
with athletics. And that's that's what we're trying to find
out at Labella Eedwards Stadium. Which of these twin brothers
is the better brother? The one that's an inch taller,
has you know, the straighter teeth, runs a little bit faster.
Speaker 3: Let me ask you this over the last fifteen years,
maybe less than that. So, like let's go back to
like you know, in the twelve years or so, where
where BYU was an independent before they got the invite
to the Big twelve and received additional resources, additional investment internally,
and then NIL kicked in and allowed them to be
even more competitive. So Utah fansine media over the last
decade plus have cited.
Speaker 1: Talent gap as the reason why Utah.
Speaker 3: Is beating BYU year over year with the nine straight wins.
Do you still think that is a true statement that
there's still a talent gap between Utah and BYU, or
as BYU ultimately closed that gap and they are equivalents
and twin brothers.
Speaker 2: I don't know that. Maybe maybe when you get down
into like the twos and threes, you could you could
start to try to make a case for talent gap.
I think that the things that you mentioned have closed
it and closed it rapidly. I also think that it
was overblown in the first place to say that one
was significantly more talented than the other. I mean by
you starting to win these recruiting battles. The transfer portal
is such an important thing, and when you talk about
talent gap comparisons on a team, you just say, Okay,
could L J. Martin be a starting running back at
the University of Utah. The answer to that question is
very obviously yes. Could John Henry Daily be starting at BYU? Well, yeah,
obviously he was at BYU at one point and if
he was still there, he'd be their best pass rushing threat.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 2: Could Jack Kelly and Isaiah Glasker be part of the
every down defense for Morgan Scaley at the University of Utah?
Obviously yes. Now, if there is a talent gap, maybe
you start getting into, like I said, the depth, But
even that I have a really hard time saying that
like BYU's wide receiver room isn't as good or better
from man one through ten than Utah's. I mean, I
think that actually BYU has the advantage there this year.
So if it were ever true, and probably in the
height of the PAC twelve years for Utah and BYU
really struggling in independence from the scheduling standpoint, maybe there
was a talent gap of some sort. It probably wasn't
as pronounced as people think it is. And I think
that the quality of NFL players that have come out
of BYU in those years speaks to that It's not
a quantity thing necessarily BOU, but the quality thing has
been really incredible. So I just I never bought all
the way into that, like, oh, you just can't compete
because you don't have everything.
Speaker 4: Well now they do.
Speaker 2: They've got the resources, they've got the facilities, and most importantly,
and something that has not talked about enough, they have
the right coach and the right coaches at BYU. And
that is far more important than any of the other
things that we're talking about when it comes to comparing
these two schools. Coaching is the number one impact sort
of proposition in college football, and BYU's got the right
people there.
Speaker 3: Now, if BYU sends Kyle Whittingham home with a third
straight loss in this rivalry game, does Kyle Whittingham retire
or does he come back another year to duke it
out once again with the Cougars.
Speaker 2: I think that comes down to a question of if
somehow Utah doesn't win this game, but redeems their season
by backdooring into a Big twelve championship game by on
balance having their year finish better than BYU's year. So
from that comparative metric, like they beat us head to head,
but we ended up having the better year, so I
can feel better about it. Maybe I also don't know.
I mean, he's gonna have a hard time walking away
no matter what. So if he loses three in a
row to BYU, he's gonna want to come back to
take another crack at it. But then you have to
be realistic and you have to look at all, right,
my offensive line, that's one of the strengths of my teams.
All of them are going to be gone next year.
So do I want to come back and take another
crack at BYU? Rebuilding Matt's most important part of my team.
I mean, I understand there's I mean this, we talked
about this on my show. This is a big part
of the narrative this year. It'll be hard for Kyle
Whittingham to walk away on a loss to BYU. But
if the time is right, the time is right, it's
just going to be a lot more of a fairy
tale ending. If he can get back in the wind
column against his alma mater that has of course becomes rival.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I just wonder if, if if a legacy would
be slightly solid at all, because, like I was, I
was debating this with Spence check its earlier this week
as well, and I I'll post the same question to
you because I want to get your thoughts on it.
You know, I would say, there's there's it's there's a
partition of the legacy. One aspect of his legacy as
the greatest coach. It's it's indubitably, like conclusive, like he's
the greatest all time coach in University of Utah history.
Speaker 1: A partition of that is his.
Speaker 3: Dominance in the rivalry, right, There's no question his dominance
in the rivalry.
Speaker 1: Is a huge part of that legacy.
Speaker 3: And then you have like the double digit wins, top
twenty five seasons, You have the two thousand and eight
undefeated season that was great. In the latter half, you
maybe didn't get a bowl victory, a big time Bowl victory,
but you were in big time bowl games, right, and
you were you're in.
Speaker 1: The top ten or flirtations at the top ten.
Speaker 3: So where does his legacy from a fans and a
media standpoint, where is it more so maybe attributed to
that legacy, which one has more pomp and circumstance, and
and maybe you know, enduring qualities for the fan in
the mob, if you will.
Speaker 2: I think that what you know, in the short term,
five years from now, people would talk about, oh, Kyle
Whittingham went out on either a sour note or a
high note. But once you get past that five year mark, right,
all you're talking about is like that, that's what legacy
really means. Like how are you thought of and talked about?
And what did you leave behind that you know, even
the folks who didn't get to see it live remember
about you. And Kyle Whittingham's gonna have a statue outside
of the stadium that says multiple conference championships into different conferences,
highest ranking in school history, this many NFL players and
all that stuff. And by the way, even if he
loses again to BYU this year, then a winning record
against BYU. Right, So, like all of that comes out
I think as a net positive for Kyle Whittingham. He's
just so hyper competitive that he wants and he's a
control freak, right, he wants to control that narrative to
a point where it's like, not only did he finish strong,
he finished strong by taking this team in his final
year to a conference championship bid, to a college football playoff,
which is the thing that's kind of the final box
to check for him. If Utah would have beat Ohio
State in that Rose Bowl when they won their first
Pack twelve championship, I think he retires right there. I
think he recognizes, like, this is the high water mark
of my career.
Speaker 4: I'm out.
Speaker 2: It hasn't happened, and there's always been some carrot to
dangle to bring him back. Right now, that has been
getting back against BYU, but much more important than that
making a college football playoff. He wants to do that
before he leaves, and this is his best chance to
do it with this senior group of offensive linemen on
the interior, with two first round draft picks potentially playing
offensive tackle, with a hyper talented quarterback.
Speaker 4: Who's a dual threat.
Speaker 2: And an experienced defense, especially that linebacking corps. There's always
going to be something. There's always going to be an
exciting young player. Hey can I get this guy better
for next year? But at some point the succession plan
has to come to fruition. Morgan Scalley's not going to
wait around forever. And I do know this for a fact.
The nil thing and the transfer portal thing. While Kyle
Whittingham has done a pretty good job adjusting to it,
he does not.
Speaker 4: Like it at all.
Speaker 2: It is a heavy lift for him to keep up
with the Joneses on that front, and it's a heavy
lift for the athletic department and the University of Utah
supporters to keep up with the Joneses on that front.
He recognizes all of this stuff. I think it's his
last year, no matter what happens on Saturday, and probably
no matter what happens the rest of the way. But
I do think he's got a great shot of finishing
on a high note.
Speaker 4: With this roster.
Speaker 3: Sean, give me a score prediction. How do you see
this game playing out? What are the keys to the game.
Speaker 2: Well, the keys of the game are possessed the football,
don't turn it over, do not give short fields to BYU,
and obviously you've got to stop the run. Bear Bachmeyer
and LJ. Martin are an absolute nightmare when you put
those two together. I think that Bo he's going to
have a couple of big plays in this one. I
think that you know, there's a reason why Chase Roberts
and ten Parker Kingston and those guys have what like
when you put the whole group together of pass catchers,
it's like thirteen to fifteen yards per catch. I think
Roberts is like nineteen yarders.
Speaker 4: It's there.
Speaker 2: They're big, dumb numbers. They're like explosive play type numbers.
Keep that stuff in front of you, don't give up
too many of them, and play more like you did
against Arizona State in West Virginia on the line of
scrimmage than you did against Texas Tech. I don't think
BYU is anywhere near what Texas Tech is on either
offense or defensive line right now. So Utah should be
able to win that battle. But it's the rivalry game.
There's talent on both sides. These coaches know each other
incredibly well. Jay Hill is one of the best defensive
coordinators in the country, just like Morgan scally is. I
think it stays relatively low scoring because of that twenty
four to twenty US.
Speaker 3: There you go, that's the real O C Sean O'Connell.
What would you have done to a fan that jumped
down and tried to beat you up, you know, in
on on on the football field, if you were a cheerleader,
you know.
Speaker 2: Well, if I were a cheerleader, I think my whole
life story would.
Speaker 4: Have gone a lot different than I probably wouldn't have
some of.
Speaker 1: That gus that I have.
Speaker 3: Dude, Hey, that guy actually can't remember his name, but
he was like a really good wrestler at Mountain View
High School apparently, and then he like transitioned into cheerleading.
Apparently he just beat the snot out of that poor
BYU fan that jumped onto the football field.
Speaker 1: So he was actually a pretty good wrestler apparently.
Speaker 2: Well, you know, he level changed pretty well. He drives
through the takedown. He got greedy with the ground and
pound because you got to keep that that far his
right arm. You know, he's got that overhooked across the body.
You got to keep there and just hammer away with
the left. You don't get greedy and start throwing the right.
But the BYU fan recognized very early he had bit
off more than he could chew, and he went into
full defensive mode. Look, he went kind of violence at
the game. But if you see a guy with a
little bit of a dad bod and a great beard
standing down there where that maybe looks like he's rooting
for the utes BYU fans. I'm not the one, Okay,
don't come out and try to test me. It'll be
a bad day for both of us, but it'll be
worse for you.
Speaker 3: Sean O'Connell. Ladies and gentlemen, real OC. Make sure you're
following him on Twitter. Listen to him on ESPN seven
hundred every single day in the midday. Thanks Sean, We
appreciate you man, Thanks for hopping on.
Speaker 4: Thanks Ben, there go the real Yeah.
Speaker 3: I appreciate you, the real OC guys. That segment was
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on a holy war Rovvalry edition of Cougar Sports General
one O three nine ninety eight point three ESPN The
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