Speaker 1: Sometimes in the world of killers, the idea that they
Speaker 1: can get away with their crimes gets the best of them.
Speaker 1: Some can't help but return to the scene of the crime.
Speaker 1: Others keep mementos from their victims stored in their homes,
Speaker 1: and others taunt investigators by leaving cryptic clues or messages.
Speaker 1: In the nineteen eighties, Florida would find itself home to
Speaker 1: a crime that boasted such messages, and it would be
Speaker 1: one that would go down in the history books as
Speaker 1: one of the strangest unsolved murders in American history. This
Speaker 1: is the case known as the Liquid Matthew Murders.
Speaker 2: My name's Ben, I'm Nicole, and you're listening to Wicked and.
Speaker 1: Grim, a true crime podcast.
Speaker 3: Following mature audience listener discretion, Welcome back to Wicked and Graham, Yes, welcome.
Speaker 1: What do you think of that intro? Captivating? It was
Speaker 1: has your attention?
Speaker 2: Our intro's always get my attention. But that just means
Speaker 2: we're doing it right.
Speaker 1: That's true. We're doing it right, doing it right, And
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, that's really terrible about us.
Speaker 2: Right before this, we were literally just singing, we are family,
Speaker 2: if you were.
Speaker 1: We were just making up our own renditions. So here
Speaker 1: we are again. Yeah, you know, it's just never a
Speaker 1: null moment in this tiny home. Yeah. So yeah, the
Speaker 1: case today is an unsolved one, and I'm guaranteeing you
Speaker 1: now it's going to piss Nicole off.
Speaker 2: Yeah, apparently that's just what's going down today.
Speaker 1: To piss you off. I'm slapping money on it right now.
Speaker 2: I'm really looking forward to this. Yet, I felt like
Speaker 2: I wanted to be pissed the fuck off today.
Speaker 1: I wanted to piss you off today. That was my
Speaker 1: goal with this one. Oh my gosh, this case seems
Speaker 1: really interesting to me. There's certain things about it which
Speaker 1: I can't say yet because we're going to get into it.
Speaker 1: There's certain things about it that are frustrating, aggravating, entertaining,
Speaker 1: and interesting all in the same boat.
Speaker 2: And we're going down to Florida again.
Speaker 1: We are going down to Florida again.
Speaker 2: And also I guess just wait, the last one went
Speaker 2: to Florida. I think that was our Patreon. Was it
Speaker 2: a Florida man? That's Patreon?
Speaker 1: Was it a Patreon one? I think?
Speaker 2: So?
Speaker 1: Okay, thanks, so well, we are going to be going
Speaker 1: to Florida again. Here I'll touch on that here shortly,
Speaker 1: but I do also want to give a quick shout
Speaker 1: out to Patreon and our patron's over there. So we
Speaker 1: always have patrons who sign up every week for Patreon
Speaker 1: join us over there, and we have a bunch more
Speaker 1: people who signed up this week. So this week we
Speaker 1: have Alison Rabiro. She she told me I was gonna
Speaker 1: pronounce her name wrong, so we'll see. So I'm gonna
Speaker 1: try one more time just to make sure Alison or
Speaker 1: Ra Biro whoa? I was like, should a roll v R?
Speaker 1: And she's like the first one, So I think I
Speaker 1: think I might have got it in one of those tries. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I probably that sounds pretty good. Allison's probably laughing her
Speaker 1: ass off right now. Sorry, Alison, appreciate you helping us
Speaker 1: out and how to say your name. So Alison signed up.
Speaker 1: We also have Rosie, Joseph Stayton, Megan Groves shout out
Speaker 1: to Megan friend Local, and kimber.
Speaker 2: Long right on this week it is I Like It.
Speaker 1: And over on Hatreon. This week we also had everyone
Speaker 1: do a little bit of a vote a vote I
Speaker 1: want to tell us about that.
Speaker 2: Well, just basically trying to let people choose our next case. Well,
Speaker 2: it's not gonna be our next one, because the next
Speaker 2: one we already have started our research process, but like
Speaker 2: maybe one after that or one after that, I don't know,
Speaker 2: but very soon.
Speaker 1: In the next few weeks.
Speaker 2: And yeah, we got recommendations and then we kind of
Speaker 2: picked the top recommendations and then we had a vote
Speaker 2: on those.
Speaker 1: And out of that vote, the top case was Maddie Clifton.
Speaker 1: I was I wasn't going to actually say, but I thought,
Speaker 1: maybe you're not screw it, let's say it. So Patreon
Speaker 1: selected the case of Maddie Clifton going to be coming
Speaker 1: up in the next few weeks. So if you like
Speaker 1: that case, you know that case was.
Speaker 2: I haven't looked recently at how the voting ended up being.
Speaker 1: Was it closely? Maddie was a clear clear winner out
Speaker 1: of the top three, So.
Speaker 2: And I need to google that when I'm not even
Speaker 2: sure what it is.
Speaker 1: That's another one that I looked at either. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: there's a lot of cases out there, and for us,
Speaker 1: I mean, we're researching all the time, they kind of
Speaker 1: blurred together sometimes so Starry, we do know this case,
Speaker 1: it's just not possibly.
Speaker 2: But then we also did realize that we're not quite
Speaker 2: as as true crime fanatics as we thought we were.
Speaker 1: Oh that's true one percent. Now you guys out there
Speaker 1: are way more into this. I'm not into it, Like
Speaker 1: we're just as into it. You're way more knowledgeable than Yeah.
Speaker 1: We we do our research on these cases, and it's like,
Speaker 1: crazy cool. We learnt a lot where you guys are like, yeah,
Speaker 1: we knew all that already. So yeah, that's cool. Though,
Speaker 1: that's good. There is actually also something crazy cool that
Speaker 1: happened this week in the Great White Norse. The Great
Speaker 1: White Norse, we had a a wild encounter on our
Speaker 1: doorstep here. It was the.
Speaker 2: Cutest, one of the cutest things I've ever witnessed in
Speaker 2: my entire life.
Speaker 1: It was pretty adorable. Yeah, so out our front door,
Speaker 1: just across like the our walkway to our entrance whatever,
Speaker 1: on the other side of our fence that we have
Speaker 1: for our dog, we have our quad, our four wheeler
Speaker 1: stored there for the winter, and our dogs just staring
Speaker 1: at it. Yeah, she's a little hunter.
Speaker 2: She she likes to to make animals feel uncomfortable.
Speaker 1: And I was like, right away, I'm like, there's probably
Speaker 1: a mouse starting to make a home something in that quad.
Speaker 2: This is going to be fun, which isn't good. It
Speaker 2: could cause some damage, Oh it can.
Speaker 1: Especially with the chew and wires or something. Yeah, but
Speaker 1: it was far worse than I'm out good because it
Speaker 1: was a weasel yea, and the weasel could do it Ferret, well,
Speaker 1: Ferret is a large weasel basically, yeah, but a little
Speaker 1: white weasel. These weasels could do way more damage than
Speaker 1: the mouse.
Speaker 2: So yeah, what I don't know, just how you're describing
Speaker 2: it is so funny. But anyway, I'm going to take
Speaker 2: over because you're just sing.
Speaker 1: Pausey Well, I was waiting for you to jump in.
Speaker 1: I just feel like I'm just telling the whole story.
Speaker 2: So rips after the squad just she'll sit there for
Speaker 2: days just staring at the quad with the weasel in there, right,
Speaker 2: And so we're like, hey, we're gonna go out there
Speaker 2: and try to get this weasel out. But first it
Speaker 2: just like at one moment popped Where did it pop
Speaker 2: out from under the seat?
Speaker 1: Kind of right, It was right of the steering column,
Speaker 1: right where the steering goes down by the gas tank.
Speaker 1: There's a little gap there, and it popped its head out.
Speaker 2: There, just this tiny, little white weasel and it was
Speaker 2: like and it was the cutest shit I've ever seen
Speaker 2: in my life.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it did it like four times, popped its head out, squeak,
Speaker 1: gone yepped his head squeak, just like telling Ripley off,
Speaker 1: being like fuck you, and then gone yeah, like it's hilarious.
Speaker 2: I can't believe that it would stick up for itself
Speaker 2: to like this. I mean, Rip's on a huge dog,
Speaker 2: but still she would.
Speaker 1: Have did to be fair though, to be fair, you're
Speaker 1: all about it, to be fair, be fair. Weasels are mean,
Speaker 1: they will fight your fucking well.
Speaker 2: No, you kind of made me afraid of it. So
Speaker 2: then when we're trying to get out of the quad,
Speaker 2: I was like, shit, like.
Speaker 1: Oh no, they will take off, but they will also
Speaker 1: stand their ground. Yeah you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: We kind of had it surrounded, so then I stepped
Speaker 2: back and we did end up being able to get
Speaker 2: out of the quad. But yeah, so Rip would have
Speaker 2: killed that thing in a hearty Oh yeah.
Speaker 1: She would have shredded it, but that weasel would have
Speaker 1: fought back. It wouldn't have fought for long, but it
Speaker 1: would have fought back. But that was an encounter and
Speaker 1: a half.
Speaker 2: That was Yeah, that was interesting little face with this
Speaker 2: little yeah, so freaking adorable. My gosh, I kind of
Speaker 2: wanted to keep it.
Speaker 1: No, No, could you imagine having that in a tiny home?
Speaker 2: Oh I don't think it would last in here. No
Speaker 2: one of our key year rip would kill it, or.
Speaker 1: Me or you just being annoyed. Unless you imagine just
Speaker 1: going to bed at nights a little thing pops its
Speaker 1: head out of the blankets. Gone, well, that's ourady counter.
Speaker 1: We just want to share that story with you guys,
Speaker 1: because I thought it was funny.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was really really cute.
Speaker 1: Should we get to the podcast? We digress a little
Speaker 1: bit here, I think, so let's let's go all right,
Speaker 1: so as off. Apparently you are going to be pissed off.
Speaker 1: As we mentioned though, we're going to Florida. We talked
Speaker 1: about different stuff with Florida before. It's a state known
Speaker 1: around the world for many different things and many different reasons.
Speaker 1: As we have mentioned interesting headlines Florida Man for example,
Speaker 1: right yep. Now, Florida also just so happens to be
Speaker 1: home of this very strange case known as the liquid
Speaker 1: Matthew murders. Okay, okay, any idea why it would be
Speaker 1: called the liquid Matthew Murder.
Speaker 2: I've already been kind of wondering. I don't know if
Speaker 2: I'm going to go there, because like what happens if
Speaker 2: I say something really fucked up?
Speaker 1: Fair enough? I just realized I forgot that.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, may look at all those SIPs he could
Speaker 2: have already had.
Speaker 1: I just got to catch up. I guess liquid what Sorry,
Speaker 1: Matthew Liquid Matthew Murder. Okay, So this story takes us
Speaker 1: back forty years into nineteen eighty three. Florida residents across
Speaker 1: the state were beginning to wake up as the sun rose,
Speaker 1: and they found themselves with a mystery almost directly lifted
Speaker 1: from the pages of a Sherlock Holmes book, placed upon them.
Speaker 1: Everyone you know, started their day the sun rising, getting
Speaker 1: ready for work. But early in that morning, two joggers
Speaker 1: out of highly in Miami were out for their morning jog,
Speaker 1: probably living a much healthier lifestyle than I ever will.
Speaker 2: It's always the joggers or the dog walkers, man, I know, right,
Speaker 2: being out those early risers, this just makes me out
Speaker 2: want to be an early riser.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So they were doing their thing. It was out
Speaker 1: on December sixth of nineteen eighty three. Now while their
Speaker 1: feet hit the pavement, which eat with each step, they
Speaker 1: eventually led them to find a man laying face down
Speaker 1: in an almost empty parking lot. Now, once in a while,
Speaker 1: people have such a fun evening at the next morning,
Speaker 1: they wake up in fairly peculiar places.
Speaker 2: To be fair, right, I can't see that's ever happened
Speaker 2: to me.
Speaker 1: I've never woken up in a parking lot. Well, given
Speaker 1: this is Florida, with such extravagant titles with the Florida
Speaker 1: Man sort of thing, right, a parking lot doesn't seem
Speaker 1: like it's too far fetched to be waking up after
Speaker 1: a bender.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 1: However, as a two joggers approached the motionless man laying
Speaker 1: face down, it became increasingly clear that he wasn't just
Speaker 1: passed out drunk. He was most undoubtedly dead deceased. Yes,
Speaker 1: the two joggers called the discovery of the body into
Speaker 1: the police and found themselves the center of a murder investigation. Dang.
Speaker 1: When investigators arrived on the scene, it would be Sergeant
Speaker 1: David Miller who would be piecing together what would become
Speaker 1: one of the most confusing and yet striking simple investigations
Speaker 1: in Florida's history. At the scene, barriers were immediately set
Speaker 1: up to help contain and prevent crime scene contamination. Then
Speaker 1: the investigation officially began. They searched for blood, footprints, clues,
Speaker 1: all shapes and sizes, whether it was a murder weapon,
Speaker 1: or anything that could lead them the right path. They
Speaker 1: took crime scene photos and interviewed the two joggers who
Speaker 1: found the man. It was immediately clear that the man
Speaker 1: had been strangled to death oh jeez, and an estimated
Speaker 1: time death was also able to be determined fairly quickly.
Speaker 1: It was likely that he passed away and was killed
Speaker 1: the evening before and laid there on the cold ground
Speaker 1: to be discovered in the light of the new day
Speaker 1: all night, hey yeap. Now, being that as death most
Speaker 1: likely took place in the dark, investigators were not really
Speaker 1: able to find anyone who was seeing any suspicious activity. Right,
Speaker 1: it's dark. You can't see shit. Yep. There's not many
Speaker 1: people around because they're all at home now sleeping, And
Speaker 1: despite their searching, there wasn't much immediate apparent evidence as
Speaker 1: far as things went either. Thankfully, though, due to the
Speaker 1: victim's belongings, they did learn his name. His name was
Speaker 1: I'm gonna butcher this. I'm sorry, but I'm gonna t
Speaker 1: hi my best here. Francisco Patino Griterrez a sailor from Colombia. Now,
Speaker 1: Francisco was on a cargo ship he had been working,
Speaker 1: and they recently docked in Panama, and Francisco had found
Speaker 1: himself at the wrong end of a pair of hands.
Speaker 1: Clearly who had strangled him and left him there in
Speaker 1: the parking lot. But the question is why what had happened?
Speaker 1: We know he was strangled, we know he came in
Speaker 1: from a boat, but how did he get there in between?
Speaker 1: And who had a motive to kill him? Exactly?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was expecting his name to be like Matthew
Speaker 2: or something. Just wait, now, this title makes zero sense
Speaker 2: to me. So I'm I'm okay, I'm want to listen.
Speaker 1: We're getting there, Okay, don't you worry. Okay. So these
Speaker 1: were the sort of questions that Sergeant David Miller and
Speaker 1: his team of investigators were trying to find out now.
Speaker 1: Unfortunately for them, though, the investigation would come to a
Speaker 1: screeching halt when a bright flash of light across the sky,
Speaker 1: followed by a deep rumble of thunder echoing above, and
Speaker 1: then all hell broke loose came upon them like a thunderstorm. Yeap,
Speaker 1: oh shit, massive rains beyond suddenly pouring down and practically
Speaker 1: flooded the crime scene, making it nearly impossible to physically
Speaker 1: work on the scene any longer, and the investigators were
Speaker 1: forced to go home for the rest.
Speaker 2: Of the year. Oh, I've never really thought of something
Speaker 2: like that happening.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it could wash a whole shit ton away. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I do remember watching CSI back in the day and
Speaker 1: that happened in an episode. Actually, yeah, that rings the
Speaker 1: bell too. Yeah, And I think that's why you'll see
Speaker 1: a lot of modern day crime scene investigation photos. They
Speaker 1: often have tents set up in areas where at all possible.
Speaker 1: But even still, it's not foolproof, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, even if there was like a torrential downpour, it
Speaker 2: would still be wrecking stuff.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, imagine a crime happens in the middle of
Speaker 1: a rain storm or it's just normally raining. It's going
Speaker 1: to wash away blood immediately. That blood's not staying there
Speaker 1: on the sidewalk, it's getting washed away.
Speaker 2: You'd have nothing left. Yeah, wow, I mean that would
Speaker 2: be some lock really on the killers side.
Speaker 1: No kidding, So investigators return the next morning. There was
Speaker 1: little hope of finding any evidence that it survived the
Speaker 1: sudden storm, but they were hopeful. They went out there,
Speaker 1: they crossed their fingers and they began searching. Now they
Speaker 1: were going through the wet crime scene to see what
Speaker 1: may have survived, hoping that something, anything, weathered the storm.
Speaker 1: And it didn't actually take them too long to find something.
Speaker 1: Oh the strangest of places.
Speaker 2: Okay, what did they find?
Speaker 1: Well, it was only meters away and I mean meters
Speaker 1: away from where Francisco's body had been discovered where they
Speaker 1: found the clue. This wasn't just any clue though. It
Speaker 1: wasn't something that someone would unintentionally leave behind, not a
Speaker 1: cigarette butt or a footprint or a hair. This was
Speaker 1: intentionally left and it sparked Sergeant David Miller on a
Speaker 1: search for clues and what would quickly turn into the
Speaker 1: crime scene like in WHICHPT. Florida would never have seen before.
Speaker 1: This is what he found. He found on taped to
Speaker 1: the back of a no dumping sign was a note.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, something that shouldn't have survived a rainstorm either. However,
Speaker 1: whoever had left the note had sealed it in a
Speaker 1: plastic bag, almost like they had seen the storm coming,
Speaker 1: like the third for it beforehand.
Speaker 2: They looked at the weather network before almost like that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he looks up. They find this note tagged to
Speaker 1: the back of a sign weather Proof ready to go,
Speaker 1: waiting for him.
Speaker 2: Such bullshit though, like murderers and like killing someone, it's
Speaker 2: not a game, like people when they leave shit like
Speaker 2: that intentionally, like they're just making it a game, which
Speaker 2: is kind of just makes you feel a little gross.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I do want you to remember that, specifically what
Speaker 1: you just said, okay.
Speaker 2: Oh, like because it's going to be a grosser.
Speaker 1: I just want you to remember that. Awesome okay. Now.
Speaker 1: The note was only slightly damp and certainly in good
Speaker 1: enough condition for the investigators to open up and read
Speaker 1: the typed up message left on the crime scene photo
Speaker 1: Urst crime scene note. Sorry, so what's it say? What
Speaker 1: do we got here? Well to read what is said?
Speaker 1: I want to bring in Jacko. Whoa.
Speaker 4: Once you're back on the track, you'll travel in night.
Speaker 4: So prepare your old self for a terrible fright now. Oh,
Speaker 4: the motive is clear and the victim is too. You've
Speaker 4: got all the answers just follow the.
Speaker 2: Clues, so it's like a real life scavender hunt pretty much.
Speaker 1: Yikes.
Speaker 2: Usually scavender hunts are like fun. This is like not fun.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, jaws were Jeff definitely dropped when they were
Speaker 1: reading this note. They're just like what the fuck? Yeah?
Speaker 1: And whoever left it literally seemed to be taunting investigators
Speaker 1: with this like cryptic riddle. And now serial killers do,
Speaker 1: like who do leave these clues? They do taunt or
Speaker 1: tease authorities. That's kind of their what they're getting after,
Speaker 1: Like it is a game, like it is a scavenger
Speaker 1: hunt that lights them up. Yeah. The guys that do this,
Speaker 1: they believe they are smarter than authorities, and so it's
Speaker 1: their way of showing like you can't catch me. Mm hmm.
Speaker 1: But was this a taunting message left behind by Francisco's
Speaker 1: murderer or was it maybe just a hoax left behind
Speaker 1: by someone during the rainstorm who caught wind of the
Speaker 1: investigation and wanted to leave a fun riddle at the
Speaker 1: investigator's expense. No, that's kind of the question they were
Speaker 1: I think it was the murderer, You think so for sure? Well,
Speaker 1: the investigators weren't one hundred percent. They weren't sure, but
Speaker 1: they certainly were in a hurry to find out. M hmmm.
Speaker 1: They didn't have much physical evidence from the night before,
Speaker 1: but they did have something that would help them figure
Speaker 1: out if this note was real, if it was posted
Speaker 1: during the rainstorm in their absence or not. They had
Speaker 1: crime scene photos, so they went back in the photos.
Speaker 1: They took shit and looked at the photos.
Speaker 2: That wasn't there. This person was probably just sitting there
Speaker 2: fucking car watching.
Speaker 1: I hate that the note was there. Oh okay, the
Speaker 1: note was there in their crime shift here. I'm already
Speaker 1: just like overreacting. Ben said, I'm going to be mad.
Speaker 1: Is this apart where I'm meant? The note was legitimately
Speaker 1: there at the time of the murder. Okay, So investigators
Speaker 1: to find some answers. They needed to piece it together.
Speaker 1: So thinking back, once you're back on track, you'll travel
Speaker 1: in night. What could it mean? Now back on the boat, Well,
Speaker 1: I'm not so sure. I don't. I can't get inside
Speaker 1: Sergeant David Miller's head here, but in about an hour
Speaker 1: or so he did figure it out. An impressive feet
Speaker 1: for a note that's as cryptic as it is, potentially
Speaker 1: left behind by a killer who clearly imagined themselves with
Speaker 1: a fucking real life from Riddler from Batman. Yeah, but
Speaker 1: he had a feeling that if he followed this clues,
Speaker 1: he would find another piece of the puzzle, and his
Speaker 1: gut proved be right when he found a second note
Speaker 1: only a few minutes down the road from where the
Speaker 1: first note had been found.
Speaker 2: Okay, so I assumed it would be kind of further away,
Speaker 2: but okay, Well.
Speaker 1: He came across a speed limit sign and found another
Speaker 1: plastic bag taped to the back of it. Oh and
Speaker 1: I mean you can guess what was inside that plastic bag,
Speaker 1: of course the note, right, Yeah, now back on track.
Speaker 1: I'm assuming must have meant on the road. So I'm
Speaker 1: thinking someone traveling a certain direction, a certain flow of
Speaker 1: maybe a highway or something, right, okay, And that sign
Speaker 1: would certainly be visible in the reflective night from vehicles
Speaker 1: passing by in headlights. So that's kind of where I'm
Speaker 1: thinking he got this from. But I'm not certain how
Speaker 1: he deciphered to go this direction and find it on
Speaker 1: the sign he figured it out. I don't know what
Speaker 1: was going on in his head, but that's what happened.
Speaker 2: Well, It's lucky that they had someone that's good at
Speaker 2: riddles on this case.
Speaker 1: Right within an hour he had a figure.
Speaker 2: Out, like that's really good.
Speaker 1: That is really good. So he's he's doing awesome. Yeah,
Speaker 1: shout out to him now. The message this time only
Speaker 1: raised more questions rather than reassuring the investigators that they
Speaker 1: were on the right track. Now this note again bringing
Speaker 1: in Jacko. This note read this.
Speaker 4: Yes, Matthew is dead, but his body not felt those
Speaker 4: brains would Matt's because his body did melt for Billy
Speaker 4: through Matt in some hot boiling oil to confuse the
Speaker 4: police for the mystery they did toil.
Speaker 1: Huh.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm confused as shit now and you should be like,
Speaker 2: he did they play two names in there, two names
Speaker 2: Matthew and Billy.
Speaker 1: Billy and Matthew. Matthew and Billy.
Speaker 2: Yes, and that is not the name of the friggin
Speaker 2: person that is dead.
Speaker 1: Correct, So by Matthew could potentially be a whole other
Speaker 1: victim that they've yet to find. And how does this
Speaker 1: tie Francisco into it?
Speaker 2: Huh that's terrifying almost, because then it's like, brig how
Speaker 2: many victims do we have here?
Speaker 1: What is this exactly? Huh.
Speaker 2: And this guy's freaking crazy like psycho?
Speaker 1: And what did you say earlier that I said, I
Speaker 1: don't want you to forget what you said? Should I forgot?
Speaker 1: I knew you forgot it? What the hell did I say?
Speaker 1: You're basically saying that these guys playing a fucking sick.
Speaker 2: Game and it's not Oh yeah, yeah, it makes you
Speaker 2: feel feel sick or make you feel gross gross, made
Speaker 2: you feel gross?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: I did remember you had helped me, good job. I
Speaker 2: should have a notebook that they're just right fentle me
Speaker 2: to remember this.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so this is sick, and it seems so bizarre,
Speaker 1: as if someone was trying, honestly, in my opinion, too
Speaker 1: hard to be clever with what they're writing, to the
Speaker 1: point that it didn't make sense anymore if they took
Speaker 1: the note at face value. Investigators were looking at another
Speaker 1: victim and his remains may not be so easily found
Speaker 1: because it sounds like Matthew could very well be in
Speaker 1: well a liquid state, like because they boiled in oil.
Speaker 2: Okay, And that is actually kind of where my head
Speaker 2: went with that title, And.
Speaker 1: I was like, I'm not going to say anything because
Speaker 1: I don't want to sound like well, I mean, a
Speaker 1: lot of us have seen Breaking Bad. We know that
Speaker 1: people you know, certain assiles, certain compounds and bodies, and yeah,
Speaker 1: so Bringing Bad's a good show. It is a good
Speaker 1: show now this time, investigators, though regarding the clues, at
Speaker 1: a loss. They weren't able to unravel these cryptic messages
Speaker 1: in this riddle and what they were talking about. They
Speaker 1: didn't have any answers. They couldn't come up with anything,
Speaker 1: and the case was darker and stranger as the more
Speaker 1: they thought about this. They potentially had a serial killer
Speaker 1: out there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it seemed very random. Really, Oh yeah, it was
Speaker 2: not what I was expecting. It doesn't make any sense.
Speaker 1: It doesn't. So investigators worked trying to figure it out,
Speaker 1: trying to make sense of it for days, and they
Speaker 1: were unable to make any headway. They managed to figure out.
Speaker 1: You know, the first one may said quick, but the
Speaker 1: second one baffled.
Speaker 2: Well, it's almost it's probably a fear too, that they're
Speaker 2: just waiting for a Matthew to show up or something
Speaker 2: deceased or missing or something right like, that's terrifying.
Speaker 1: Well, and they're also going against a clock, because who
Speaker 1: knows that if this individual is going to strike again,
Speaker 1: and they're going to get another note with another body, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: who's to say we clearly have someone. As you said,
Speaker 1: it's a sick game like this is just not a
Speaker 1: good situation. Yeah. Well, it was almost a week later
Speaker 1: that Sergeant David Miller made a call. He decided they
Speaker 1: were going to release the second note to the public
Speaker 1: and enlist their help in solving the cryptic crime. Okay,
Speaker 1: so he sent it out to be published in the
Speaker 1: local press. When they waited, they sat back and said,
Speaker 1: let's hope someone might have the insight they need to
Speaker 1: crack this code. Someone could know something. Yeah. Well, and
Speaker 1: even still, you might have someone who might even be
Speaker 1: able to look at it a different perspective and come
Speaker 1: up with an idea. Yeah. Now, the Liquid Matthew case,
Speaker 1: as it was printed in the press, came to be
Speaker 1: an overnight sensation, with amateur detectives and sleuths all across
Speaker 1: the nation putting their minds together to catch the mysterious
Speaker 1: murderer and stop them before they could strike again. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it didn't take long before investigators would receive a phone
Speaker 1: call from someone who was able to help decipher them
Speaker 1: note Okay, and the call didn't come from a would
Speaker 1: be detective or a newspaper puzzle addict either, who was it?
Speaker 1: The call came from the very person who left the note.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, you're kidding. My head did not go there. No,
Speaker 2: not at all. What the frig Because it's like this
Speaker 2: person is probably thinking this is taking too long. I'm
Speaker 2: just going to help them so they can buy the
Speaker 2: next clue and we can move on.
Speaker 1: Do you think so?
Speaker 3: Huh?
Speaker 1: You think that's what's going on? Yeah? Remember how I
Speaker 1: said you were going to get pissed off?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Did I just nail it?
Speaker 1: No, you're far from it. Oh, and I'm going to
Speaker 1: tell you why, and you're about to learn why. I'm
Speaker 1: going to say you're going to get pissed off. CA
Speaker 1: I'm ready. The man on the phone told law enforcement
Speaker 1: that he had seen a copy of the riddle in
Speaker 1: the public press and wanted to let them know that
Speaker 1: he had written it along with the first note as well.
Speaker 1: But that isn't all he had to say. In fact,
Speaker 1: the man on the phone went as far as actually
Speaker 1: giving investigators his full name and his home address. Weird,
Speaker 1: but why would the person who wrote these notes simply
Speaker 1: turn himself in as you just said it's weird.
Speaker 2: Well, he's probably turning someone in. That's not him.
Speaker 1: Oh he was. It was his real name, it was
Speaker 1: his real address. The man was a leader of a
Speaker 1: local church youth group, and according to him, the notes
Speaker 1: had been part of an event that his local church
Speaker 1: ran every Halloween. The notes reclues for a murder mystery
Speaker 1: scavenger hunt, meant to send participants through the city to
Speaker 1: try and solve it for fun, and was actually run
Speaker 1: by four local churches, not one mysterious mastermind on a
Speaker 1: murderous rampage.
Speaker 2: Oh okay, so this note wasn't even like had anything
Speaker 2: to do with this person in the parking lot. Then correct,
Speaker 2: Well the fuck? Wow? Okay, well it's good that they
Speaker 2: put that out there. Then that's so fucking weird, something
Speaker 2: they would never have. Oh like what the wasted resources?
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, but okay, you pissed off. Not as just
Speaker 2: off as I thought I would be. But that's interesting,
Speaker 2: like it's almost comical, but not.
Speaker 1: Well, the man had claimed he had wrote the clues
Speaker 1: then knew that the weather might turn worse for the
Speaker 1: rain in the forecast on Halloween night. Yeah, so we
Speaker 1: sealed them in plastic bags and tape them to the
Speaker 1: back of the street sign so they could survive the weather. Now,
Speaker 1: as it turns out, it's true another storm had struck
Speaker 1: on Halloween night that year, and since it did occur,
Speaker 1: the Scavender hunt had been called off early and the
Speaker 1: participants went home, leaving the leftover notes behind, just.
Speaker 2: Left them there. They should probably have gone and like
Speaker 2: collected them.
Speaker 1: No, they were just left behind, taped there and left
Speaker 1: and they never went back to retrieve them.
Speaker 2: And here now they are like clues to a murder.
Speaker 1: It seemed. Wow. The notes had been on the back
Speaker 1: of those signs for months, surviving wind rain in their
Speaker 1: plastic bags, until the fateful December when a very real
Speaker 1: murder and alive Francisco just so happened to be fallen
Speaker 1: victim right beneath. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Can you think that they would look pretty weather though?
Speaker 2: Like you would think they wouldn't look like they were
Speaker 2: just put there.
Speaker 1: So, I don't know. I found that weird. Well, how
Speaker 1: long does plastics deteriorate? In a month or two? Well,
Speaker 1: they would be like dusty or dirty rain. It just rained.
Speaker 2: I guess, huh, maybe I'll have to test this. You'll
Speaker 2: come home tomorrow, plastic bags around it around the yard
Speaker 2: testing well.
Speaker 1: Any any sort of weathering that would have occurred. You
Speaker 1: could have explained it with the rain. Oh, the note
Speaker 1: is wet. Will it just rained? Yeah? The plastic bag
Speaker 1: isn't hanging on very well anymore. Will it just rain?
Speaker 1: The storm kind of washed some of the tape away.
Speaker 2: I gotta use some good tape.
Speaker 1: It's blowing in the wind. Who knows what could have
Speaker 1: used good tape? Yeah, I mean this is a whole
Speaker 1: fetch story as far as the police were concerned, though,
Speaker 1: So to confirm, investigators called another church and other church
Speaker 1: leaders in the area as well, and they were actually
Speaker 1: able to confirm the identity of the caller and his
Speaker 1: story as well. Huh So that's bizarre. Yeah, it turns
Speaker 1: out that the notes had absolutely nothing to do with
Speaker 1: Francisco's murder. Wow, nothing to do with actually anything really
Speaker 1: at all, nothing real anyways, But what exactly did that
Speaker 1: mean for Francisco's murder and investigation?
Speaker 2: My gears are really turning here. That's wild.
Speaker 1: Well, first, we do know there's no real serial killer
Speaker 1: on the loose. There's no notes being left behind, right,
Speaker 1: so it could be just like a one.
Speaker 2: Off death, so Matthew is not in danger.
Speaker 1: Here, Matthew is not in danger, which is good. So
Speaker 1: at least no one was leaving behind riddles taunting investigators.
Speaker 1: But the remaining questions were left why had a real
Speaker 1: person been murdered and left in this parking lot? Well?
Speaker 1: To explain why that had happened, the investigators actually didn't
Speaker 1: have to look very far. Instead of chasing these mysterious
Speaker 1: cryptic notes, investigators turned to the ship Francisco arrived on
Speaker 1: the cargo ship. Yeah had Francisco as they cruised into
Speaker 1: the country and docked in Panama, or so they initially thought.
Speaker 1: The truth of the ship was that it had come
Speaker 1: into American waters and port authorities stormed the ship before
Speaker 1: we could ever get ashore. They had taken control of it,
Speaker 1: and people who were on board the ship were led ashore. However,
Speaker 1: the goods and everything were seas because authorities had good
Speaker 1: reason to suspect it was part of a drug smuggling scheme.
Speaker 1: Oh okay, and while aboard they found eleven pounds or
Speaker 1: five kilograms of cocaine on the ship. Woh yeah wow.
Speaker 1: No one on the crew had been arrested yet, like
Speaker 1: I said, a lot of them were led ashore, and
Speaker 1: authorities were actually in the process of figuring out which
Speaker 1: crewmates were involved in the drug smuggling scheme, the whole crime.
Speaker 2: A lot of them might not even have known exactly
Speaker 2: that was what they're caring so they're trying to figure
Speaker 2: out who's who, who's involved.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and in the midst of all this, Francisco got murdered. Huh.
Speaker 1: So this could have looked like another coincidence at first,
Speaker 1: but Francisco was still on their list of suspects as
Speaker 1: far as the drug ring went when he was found
Speaker 1: dead in that parking lot. Okay, and after the mysterious
Speaker 1: no part but that aside, his involvement in the drug
Speaker 1: smuggling scheme was confirmed. Hmm. So the leading theory was
Speaker 1: that when the missing shipment of cocaine did not arrive,
Speaker 1: Francisco was in hot waters with some local drug cartel
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, and ultimately it cost him his life.
Speaker 2: You know. That honestly kind of makes sense too, because
Speaker 2: lots of times people that are like that, they kind
Speaker 2: of kill someone I just leave them there like it's
Speaker 2: just like whatever. They're not even like trying to hide
Speaker 2: their crime whatsoever. Yeah, but then this note situation just
Speaker 2: like threw it for a fucking look them on a
Speaker 2: wild goose chase, so just shit right, Like, yeah, it
Speaker 2: just delayed the process. It's pretty good that they were
Speaker 2: still able to like go about finding this out.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but and what are the odds of actually having
Speaker 1: these fucking scavenger hunt notes taped right there by a body? Yeah,
Speaker 1: and then having a an investigator actually solved the first
Speaker 1: one too, because he didn't have the steps leading up
Speaker 1: to it. Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2: It's just lucky. And it could have cost them them
Speaker 2: solving this altogether. Really, Oh, it could have because it
Speaker 2: took so much time, yeah, away from them searching other
Speaker 2: paths and other like things that might have happened.
Speaker 1: Yeah, one hundred percent. It detracted from him for sure.
Speaker 1: And then also on top of it, I mean, the
Speaker 1: crime scene was basically washed away giant storm. But yeah,
Speaker 1: the goose chase, the false leads, who knows how long
Speaker 1: it could have delayed and potentially disrupted this entire case.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I'm assuming these people probably still got away
Speaker 2: with this.
Speaker 1: Well. Francisco's case was closed on December nineteenth, nineteen eighty three,
Speaker 1: only thirteen days after his body was found. But it
Speaker 1: has forever been tied with the now legendary and infamous,
Speaker 1: infamous Liquid Matthew murderer case. And though his case was
Speaker 1: closed or is closed, yes, his killer got away with murder. Wow. Wow,
Speaker 1: so it is a closed case, but it is technically
Speaker 1: to this day unsolved.
Speaker 2: That's like the biggest piss off, right there. Yep, that
Speaker 2: they just like got away with this.
Speaker 1: Yep. And okay, sorry, was the notes called? Okay?
Speaker 2: I just needed to clarify this name situation. Here was
Speaker 2: the case or the person in those letters was called Matthew,
Speaker 2: and like he was to be like liquid, So that's
Speaker 2: why it's like liquid Matthew.
Speaker 1: Correct. Okay. Wow, it's a bizarre case. Yeah, this is
Speaker 1: so bizarre. Okay. I can hear the gears turning.
Speaker 2: They're really turning, because I don't think at any moment
Speaker 2: and time in this case I could have predicted shit
Speaker 2: of what was going to happen. I know, there's nothing
Speaker 2: I could have predicted.
Speaker 1: In all honesty. If you remove the scavenger hunt notes
Speaker 1: from this case, the case is ten seconds long.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and it's it's probably a lot like other cases. Yeah,
Speaker 2: they get away with the shit because drugs are involved
Speaker 2: and it's scary people.
Speaker 1: And yeah, so essentially this individual got away with murder
Speaker 1: potentially because of the wild goose chase the washed away evidence,
Speaker 1: but also potentially because they know they're just not going
Speaker 1: to catch this guy. Who the fuck is it.
Speaker 2: I think they would have gotten away with it regardless.
Speaker 1: I think so too. Yeah, huh, so that is well
Speaker 1: now known as a liquid Matthew murder case.
Speaker 2: I shouldn't Okay, I'm not laughing in regards to this
Speaker 2: at all, but I'm just like thinking that the church
Speaker 2: probably did not continue playing that game in future. That
Speaker 2: is my That's how I'm ending my thoughts of this case.
Speaker 1: I'm assuming that the church did not get charged with
Speaker 1: any sort of obstruction of justice or anything. Oh I
Speaker 1: don't think so. I mean, maybe they got charged with
Speaker 1: fucking littering, who knows. I doubt it. But even still,
Speaker 1: it's like that could have gone so sour. Yeah, it
Speaker 1: could have gone because they're lucky they figured this out
Speaker 1: and have a case still solved within thirteen days.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, they're lucky that the guy decided to put
Speaker 2: it out to the media, because they just kept like
Speaker 2: trying to solve this.
Speaker 1: Gosh, it could have been like a fucking Zodiac killer situation.
Speaker 1: Years the road. We're still trying to decipher this shit. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and here it's just some scavenger hunt put on by
Speaker 1: someone in a youth group. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So it honestly seems like the stars kind of just
Speaker 2: like aligned so much in this case for me, like that,
Speaker 2: it just things happened for reasons, and it's lucky they happened.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and it's it baffles me that it was
Speaker 1: solved within thirteen days. Yeah, And I also want to
Speaker 1: draw attention to how fucking ridiculous those clues were. This
Speaker 1: is for a youth group. What kind of kids are
Speaker 1: going to be able to solve this shit?
Speaker 2: Well? Or should they even be thinking about like a
Speaker 2: body being boiled?
Speaker 1: That too, But it took a professional detective one hour
Speaker 1: to cipher one clue.
Speaker 2: Well yeah, but like we said, said, he doesn't have
Speaker 2: the backstory or there was probably or he was kind
Speaker 2: of solving them not in an order, and so makes
Speaker 2: sense still yeah, but I like, I just think that
Speaker 2: if he didn't put it out with the media, they
Speaker 2: would have probably spent months months on this.
Speaker 1: I have a feeling it would have been years. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I have a feeling that if it wasn't put out
Speaker 1: to media, it would have been one of those things
Speaker 1: that's going to be sitting on a police officer's desk
Speaker 1: where the couple guys are working on it, working on it,
Speaker 1: that going around talking to people. Public doesn't really know
Speaker 1: about these notes, trying to keep them quiet. Sure, maybe
Speaker 1: it's getting leaked a little bit here and there, but
Speaker 1: general public doesn't see him for the most part. Right,
Speaker 1: general public hasn't read freaking Zodiac killer's notes, right, or
Speaker 1: seen them or whatever, not that you can read them,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Yeah, so it would have
Speaker 1: been probably years, and by the time it even is
Speaker 1: to the point where these individuals could have read it,
Speaker 1: they probably fucking don't remember anyways. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Wow, just the amount of money that could have cost
Speaker 2: is unbelievable. But then also someone did did die here,
Speaker 2: and that's oh, that is terrible.
Speaker 1: So sad.
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, his I don't even think. Yeah, his
Speaker 2: death wouldn't have probably even made the news other than
Speaker 2: all this crazy shit that happened here, right, I'm sure
Speaker 2: his death would have Still, it would have been not
Speaker 2: in like the sense where it's like on a true
Speaker 2: crime podcasts and stuff what I sort of mean, but yeah,
Speaker 2: fair enough, super.
Speaker 1: Sad, Yeah it is. But I mean, honestly, you find
Speaker 1: yourself in a bad situation with drugs like that, that's
Speaker 1: it seems like that's kind of the world. I mean,
Speaker 1: I don't I don't think anyone deserves to be murdered.
Speaker 1: Don't get me wrong here. No, however, he's kind of
Speaker 1: putting himself in that kind of situation. You know, it's unfortunately,
Speaker 1: it's kind of part of the business. You know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that is just scared. I would just be so
Speaker 2: scared shitless. Oh yeah, don't do breaking bad shit.
Speaker 1: Don't do drugs kids.
Speaker 2: Yeah right, that's that's how we're going to end this.
Speaker 1: Yeap. So thank you for listening. Hopefully enjoyed that episode.
Speaker 1: Hopefully it didn't piss you off too much. It didn't
Speaker 1: pissed the hole off as much as I thought.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it didn't actually super piss me off. There was
Speaker 2: parts of it, but it's just like, like, I think
Speaker 2: the fuck that should be the saying of this podcast.
Speaker 1: I thought you were going to be all like, are
Speaker 1: you fucking kidding me? We just went through all that
Speaker 1: for nothing, Like I thought that was going to be
Speaker 1: your attitude.
Speaker 2: Well, if it was years or months, I think my
Speaker 2: attitude would be like that more so. But it was
Speaker 2: quite quick, right, Well, I meant.
Speaker 1: You having to sit here listen to me talk about it.
Speaker 2: Oh no, I enjoy listening to you talk.
Speaker 1: I thought you would have gotten ramped up and everything
Speaker 1: and been like, fuck, now we just start over. And
Speaker 1: by the way, I did tell you remember that thing
Speaker 1: you said, and I said, remember that you said, this
Speaker 1: isn't some sort of sick game. Yeah, oh, it was
Speaker 1: a game. It was a scavenger hunt. You even said
Speaker 1: scavenger hunt in fact. Oh shit, So I did predict
Speaker 1: something then, unknowingly that was exactly what it is. And
Speaker 1: it was really hard for me to bite my tongue
Speaker 1: and keep that quiet. Wow, I'm good. Well, well you
Speaker 1: said it wasn't, so it was the exact opposite of
Speaker 1: what you were saying. No, I think I did good.
Speaker 1: I did well here, you did good. Hopefully you guys
Speaker 1: did too. If you want to check anything else for
Speaker 1: our social media website whatever, it's all in the description
Speaker 1: of this podcast. You can even go down there and
Speaker 1: find Patreon, and there you can sign up for some
Speaker 1: behind the scenes content. Get on our discord server you
Speaker 1: name it, exclusive episode at the end of the month
Speaker 1: for all access patron tire.
Speaker 2: There you go.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Or if you just want to chill out here
Speaker 1: and listen to this episode next episode, that is cool too.
Speaker 1: We appreciate you.
Speaker 2: Justine, I appreciate you all. So until next week, stay wicked.