Speaker 1: Ever wonder how prepared, like really prepared your organization is
Speaker 1: for a.
Speaker 2: Cyber attack, like not just checking the box, yes.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like actually facing down a real threat.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: That's where red teaming comes in exactly. It's like ethical
Speaker 1: hacking on steroids. We're diving deep into the book Red
Speaker 1: Team Development and Operations.
Speaker 2: Great book.
Speaker 1: Think of it as our playbook for understanding this whole world.
Speaker 2: It's a fascinating world because red teaming goes way beyond
Speaker 2: just like finding a vulnerability, Okay, you know, it's about
Speaker 2: understanding how an attacker would actually exploit those weaknesses. Kind
Speaker 2: like a stress test for your security, but instead of
Speaker 2: just looking at technical specs, it simulates a real attack scenario.
Speaker 1: Okay, so let's say someone is listening and they're thinking,
Speaker 1: all right, but isn't that what penetration testing is for.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so pen testing is definitely a part of it,
Speaker 2: but red teaming takes a much broader view. Okay, Okay,
Speaker 2: imagine security is like a fortress. Okay, pen testing might
Speaker 2: if the walls are strong. Red teaming is trying to
Speaker 2: sneak in, maybe disguised as a delivery person, or even
Speaker 2: digging a tunnel underneath.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: It tests the people, processes, and technology all at once.
Speaker 1: That's a great analogy, and it reminds me of the
Speaker 1: story from the book about a company where the leadership
Speaker 1: just assumed that only five people had access to their
Speaker 1: accounting systems, but when the red team came in.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they found a bunch more people who actually had access,
Speaker 2: which obviously creates a much bigger security risk. It's a
Speaker 2: classic example of how red teaming challenges assumptions. It forces
Speaker 2: you to look beyond the obvious and consider all the
Speaker 2: potential attack vectors.
Speaker 1: So it's not about if you have a weaknesses, it's
Speaker 1: about how an attacker would actually exploit them and what
Speaker 1: would happen if they did exactly.
Speaker 2: And that brings us to a really helpful visual. The
Speaker 2: book uses the inverted triangle. It shows the relationship between
Speaker 2: vulnerability assessments, penetration testing, and red teaming. At the very top,
Speaker 2: you've got vulnerability assessments. Think of this is casting a
Speaker 2: wide net to find as many potential weak points as possible.
Speaker 2: It gives you a broad overview but doesn't go into
Speaker 2: a lot of depth.
Speaker 1: Okay, that makes sense. So it's like a basic scan
Speaker 1: to identify the low hanging fruit.
Speaker 2: Then what Then you move down the triangle to penetration testing.
Speaker 2: This is where you actually try to exploit those vulnerabilities.
Speaker 2: You poke and prod to see if you can actually
Speaker 2: get in. It's a deeper dive, but still primarily focused
Speaker 2: on technical weaknesses.
Speaker 1: And then at the very bottom of the triangle the
Speaker 1: tip yep, that's where red teaming comes in.
Speaker 2: Exactly. Red teaming encompasses all of it. You're looking at
Speaker 2: the vulnerability scans, the penetration test results, but you're also
Speaker 2: factoring in the human element. Okay, how do employees respond
Speaker 2: to phishing attempts? Are there gaps in security procedures? Could
Speaker 2: someone literally tailgate their way into a secure area? It's
Speaker 2: about seeing how the entire system, people, processes, and technology
Speaker 2: would hold up against a determined attacker.
Speaker 1: Okay, so it's like a full blown simulation of real
Speaker 1: world attack taking everything into account. That's pretty intense. But
Speaker 1: how do they even begin to plant something like that?
Speaker 1: Do they just pick a random attack scenario and go
Speaker 1: for it?
Speaker 2: Not at all. Red teams use threat intelligence and frameworks
Speaker 2: like mitre, ATT and CK to understand real world tactics
Speaker 2: and techniques. Basically, they create a profile of the threat
Speaker 2: they're simulating based on real world adversaries.
Speaker 1: So instead of just throwing spaghetti at the wall and
Speaker 1: seeing what sticks, they're actually studying the playbook of real
Speaker 1: attackers and saying, Okay, how would this group target our organization?
Speaker 2: You got it? And they don't try to simulate everything
Speaker 2: at once. The book calls it decomposing the threat. They
Speaker 2: break down a complex adversary into their core components. What
Speaker 2: are their goals, what tactics are they known for, what
Speaker 2: tools do they use? This helps them focus on what's
Speaker 2: feasible within the time and budget constraints of.
Speaker 1: The engagement, right because you can't simulate every single aspect
Speaker 1: of a sophisticated attack, but you can focus on the
Speaker 1: key elements that are most elevant to the organization you're testing.
Speaker 1: So let's say they've identified the threat they want to emulate.
Speaker 1: What happens next.
Speaker 2: This is where it gets really interesting. Red teams have
Speaker 2: to decide what type of engagement they're going to conduct.
Speaker 2: There are two main types, announced and unannounced.
Speaker 1: Wooh unannounced that sounds like it could get a little spicy.
Speaker 2: They can with an announced engagement, the organization knows the
Speaker 2: test is coming. They might be a little more prepared,
Speaker 2: maybe they've patched some known vulnerabilities where they're on high
Speaker 2: alert for phishing emails.
Speaker 1: So it's more of a controlled experiment exactly.
Speaker 2: But unannounced engagements, those are designed to be more like
Speaker 2: a real attack. Okay, the organization has no idea its coming,
Speaker 2: so they're caught completely off guard.
Speaker 1: Wow, that must be a real eye opener for them.
Speaker 1: You get to see their true reactions and how well
Speaker 1: they would actually respond to a real world attack exactly.
Speaker 2: And the book has this Red Team tip that I love.
Speaker 2: It says unannounced engagements are best for understanding overall security
Speaker 2: operations effectiveness, while announced engagements are better for testing specific capabilities.
Speaker 2: So if you want to see how your incident response
Speaker 2: team would handle a ransomware attack, an announced engagement might
Speaker 2: be a better fit. But if you want a truly
Speaker 2: realistic assessment of your overall security posture, unannounced is the
Speaker 2: way to go.
Speaker 1: It's like the difference between a fire drill and an
Speaker 1: actual fire. Right, one is a practice run, the other
Speaker 1: is the real deal.
Speaker 2: That's a great way to put it. And then there's
Speaker 2: another type of engagement that's worth mentioning. The assumed breach model. Okay,
Speaker 2: this is where the red team is given initial access
Speaker 2: to the system. They skip the getting in part and
Speaker 2: go straight to seeing what they can do once they're inside.
Speaker 1: Hold on. So it's like saying, Okay, we know someone
Speaker 1: could get in, so let's just focus on what happens next.
Speaker 1: Isn't that a bit risky?
Speaker 2: It can be, but it's also incredibly valuable for understanding
Speaker 2: an organization's ability to detect and respond to an active threat.
Speaker 2: It's like saying, Okay, the alarm bells are already ringing.
Speaker 2: Now let's see how quickly and effectively you can contain
Speaker 2: the damage.
Speaker 1: So it's about understanding how far an attacker could get
Speaker 1: once they're passed the initial defenses. That makes a lot
Speaker 1: of sense, but it does raise another question. If they're
Speaker 1: already inside, how do they actually operate without getting caught?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 1: I mean, isn't there a ton of monitoring and security
Speaker 1: software that would pick up on unusual activity?
Speaker 2: Absolutely, that's where tradecraft comes in. The art of stealthy operations.
Speaker 2: Red teams are all about being as quiet and undetected
Speaker 2: as possible. I think ninja's of the cybersecurity world. They
Speaker 2: have to blend in, avoid detection and minimize their footprint.
Speaker 2: They don't want to tip anyone off that they're.
Speaker 1: There, so they're not just brute forcing their way in.
Speaker 1: They're being strategic and careful about every move.
Speaker 2: They make exactly. For example, they might minimize callback volume
Speaker 2: to avoid detection by network monitoring tools. Instead of constantly
Speaker 2: sending data back and forth, which could raise red flags,
Speaker 2: they'll try to limit their communication as much as possible.
Speaker 1: So it's not just about what they do, it's about
Speaker 1: how they do it. It's about being stealthy and understanding
Speaker 1: how to operate under the radar. If that raises the question,
Speaker 1: how do they actually get commands to their tools once
Speaker 1: they're inside.
Speaker 2: It's a great question, and it gets into some of
Speaker 2: the more advanced tactics that red teams use. Okay, we'll
Speaker 2: dig into that more in just a moment.
Speaker 1: Okay, so we've covered a lot of ground here. We've
Speaker 1: talked about what red teaming is, the different types of engagements,
Speaker 1: and even a bit about the tradecraft involved. But before
Speaker 1: we go, let me ask you this, why should someone
Speaker 1: listening care about all of this? I mean, if you're
Speaker 1: not a security professional, doesn't really matter.
Speaker 2: It absolutely matters, because here's the thing. Red teaming isn't
Speaker 2: just about protecting organizations. It's about protecting you. Think about
Speaker 2: all the data you have stored online. Your bank accounts,
Speaker 2: your social media profiles, your medical records, all of that
Speaker 2: is potentially vulnerable.
Speaker 1: To attack, right, And even if you're not a target yourself,
Speaker 1: you could be collateral damage in a larger attack, right,
Speaker 1: Like if a company you do business with gets hacked,
Speaker 1: your data could be compromised exactly.
Speaker 2: So understanding how red teaming works gives you a better
Speaker 2: understanding of the threats you face and how to protect yourself.
Speaker 2: It's about being aware of the risks and taking steps
Speaker 2: to mitigate them.
Speaker 1: So it's not just about technology, it's about awareness and
Speaker 1: education and maybe a little bit of healthy paranoia. We'll
Speaker 1: be back in just a moment to continue our deep
Speaker 1: dive into red teaming. Don't go anywhere.
Speaker 2: Looking forward to it. So before the break, we were
Speaker 2: talking about how red teams stay stealthy once they're inside
Speaker 2: a system, right, right, And it reminded me of this
Speaker 2: passage in the book that talks about how even a
Speaker 2: simple command can be a giveaway if you're not cures.
Speaker 1: Wait, really, like, what kind of command are we talking.
Speaker 2: It's a great example because it shows just how detail
Speaker 2: oriented red teams have to be. Okay, the book mentions
Speaker 2: the netstack command, which is used to display network connections. Okay,
Speaker 2: it seems pretty basically yeah, yeah, but the thing is
Speaker 2: it behaves differently on Windows and Linux systems.
Speaker 1: Uh huh.
Speaker 2: So if a red teamer is operating on a Windows
Speaker 2: system but accidentally uses the Linux version of the command, oh,
Speaker 2: I see, they've blown their cover. It's a dead giveaway
Speaker 2: that something's not right. Wow, and that's just one tiny example. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Red teamers need to be incredibly meticulous and have a
Speaker 2: deep understanding of the tools and systems they're working with.
Speaker 1: It's like they have to be fluent in multiple computer languages,
Speaker 1: but instead of speaking, they're typing exactly, and any little
Speaker 1: grammatical error, yes, could get them caught.
Speaker 2: That's a fantastic analogy, and it brings us back to
Speaker 2: that idea of threat planning and using frameworks like miterre
Speaker 2: att and CK.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: Remember, it's like a giant catalog of tactics and techniques
Speaker 2: that real world attackers use.
Speaker 1: Right, So instead of reinventing the wheel, red teams can
Speaker 1: draw on this knowledge base of proven tactics, right, but
Speaker 1: how does that actually work in practice.
Speaker 2: Let's say the red team is emulating a group known
Speaker 2: for using spearfishing to deliver malware. Okay, they'd start by
Speaker 2: looking at the att and CK matrix for techniques related
Speaker 2: to fishing, like spearfishing attachment or spearfishing link.
Speaker 1: So they're looking for specific technique that match the adversary
Speaker 1: they're trying to emulate exactly.
Speaker 2: And they wouldn't just copy a technique blindly. They would
Speaker 2: research those techniques in detail, okay, to understand how they work,
Speaker 2: what kinds of lures are effective, and what tools and
Speaker 2: infrastructure are typically used.
Speaker 1: So if I'm picturing this correctly, they're going through this
Speaker 1: massive database of attack techniques, reading about how real attackers
Speaker 1: have used them in the past, and then figuring out
Speaker 1: how to adapt those techniques to the specific organization they're targeting.
Speaker 2: You're getting it. It's about replicating the specific tactics and
Speaker 2: techniques of a real adversary, not just finding generic vulnerabilities.
Speaker 2: And that level of detail is what makes red teaming
Speaker 2: so effective.
Speaker 1: It's like they're writing a screenplay for a cyber attack. Yes,
Speaker 1: based on a true story, but instead of actors, they're
Speaker 1: using malware and exploits.
Speaker 2: I love that You've got it exactly Now. Once they've
Speaker 2: chosen their techniques, it's time to start thinking about how
Speaker 2: to actually tells the organization's defenses. Okay, remember those three
Speaker 2: main phases we discussed earlier, Get in, stay in, and.
Speaker 1: Act right like a cyberheist movie. Yes, first you got
Speaker 1: to get inside the vault. Then you have to stay
Speaker 1: hidden long enough to crack the safe, and then you
Speaker 1: make your move.
Speaker 2: That's a great way to think about it. Uh huh,
Speaker 2: So let's break down each phase. Okay, get in is
Speaker 2: pretty straightforward. That's the initial point of entry. This is
Speaker 2: often where social engineering techniques like phishing come into play.
Speaker 2: The red team might send a carefully crafted email designed
Speaker 2: to trick an employee into clicking a malicious link or
Speaker 2: opening an infected attachment.
Speaker 1: And we all know how easy it is to fall
Speaker 1: for a well crafted phishing email. I mean, I've even
Speaker 1: seen security professionals get fooled by some of these things.
Speaker 2: It happens to the best of us, right. Humans are
Speaker 2: often the weakest link in the security chain, and attackers
Speaker 2: know that red teaming helps organizations understand how susceptible their
Speaker 2: employees are to social engineering, and how to train them
Speaker 2: to be more vigilant.
Speaker 1: It's not just looking for technical vulnerabilities and systems. They're
Speaker 1: looking for vulnerabilities and human behavior as well.
Speaker 2: Exactly. It's about understanding how people react under pressure and
Speaker 2: how to build a security culture that encourages vigilance and awareness.
Speaker 1: Okay, so let's say the Red team successfully gains access
Speaker 1: through a phishing attack. Okay, what happens next? That's the
Speaker 1: stay in phase, right right.
Speaker 2: Once they have a foothold, they need to maintain their
Speaker 2: access and avoid detection. Okay, this is where persistence comes in.
Speaker 2: They're essentially setting up shophand finding ways to stay embedded
Speaker 2: in the system without raising any alarms.
Speaker 1: I can only imagine how nerve racking that must be.
Speaker 1: They're like a secret agent operating behind enemy lines, trying
Speaker 1: to blend in and avoid detection. But what specific tactics
Speaker 1: do they use to stay hidden.
Speaker 2: They might install back doors, create rogue user accounts, or
Speaker 2: even hijack legitimate processes to blend in with normal system activity.
Speaker 1: So they're basically camouflaging themselves within the system exactly. But
Speaker 1: all of that must take a lot of technical skill
Speaker 1: and knowledge.
Speaker 2: It does, and it's a reminder that security is not
Speaker 2: a one time fix. It's an ongoing battle.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Organizations need to be constantly monitoring their systems for suspicious
Speaker 2: activity and looking for signs of compromise.
Speaker 1: Right, because once an attacker is inside, they can potentially
Speaker 1: lie dormant for months or even years before they actually
Speaker 1: make their move.
Speaker 2: That's right, And that brings us to the final phase act. Okay,
Speaker 2: this is where the red team actually carries out their objective,
Speaker 2: which could be anything from stealing sensitive data to disrupting
Speaker 2: operations to demonstrating that they were able to achieve a
Speaker 2: specific goal.
Speaker 1: It's showtime.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's not.
Speaker 1: Just about proving that they can get in. No, it's
Speaker 1: about showing what they can do once they're inside and
Speaker 1: what the real world consequences could be exactly.
Speaker 2: And that brings us to one of the most fascinating
Speaker 2: aspects of red teaming operational impacts. Okay, this is where
Speaker 2: things can get really interesting and potentially a little uncomfortable
Speaker 2: for the organization.
Speaker 1: Okay, so we're talking about actually simulating the effects of
Speaker 1: a real world attack, right, what kind of things are
Speaker 1: we talking about here.
Speaker 2: It could be anything from simulating a denial of service attack,
Speaker 2: to disrupting critical business processes to even manipulating industrial control systems.
Speaker 1: Wow, that's pretty intense, but I can see how it
Speaker 1: would be a powerful way to get the organization's attention
Speaker 1: and make the risks feel real.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: It's like, look, we're not just playing games here. This
Speaker 1: is what could happen if you don't take security seriously.
Speaker 2: That's exactly the point. It's one thing to read a
Speaker 2: report about a vulnerability. It's another thing entirely to experience
Speaker 2: the impact of that vulnerability firsthand.
Speaker 1: Right. It's like the difference between reading about a fire
Speaker 1: and actually feeling the heat exactly. It makes it much
Speaker 1: more real and immediate, exactly.
Speaker 2: And that's why operational impacts can be so effective in
Speaker 2: driving change.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: They help organizations move beyond the theoretical realm of risk
Speaker 2: and into the realm of tangible consequences.
Speaker 1: It's like a wake up call, yes, but instead of
Speaker 1: a loud noise, it's a simulated cyber attack.
Speaker 2: I like that. And it's important to remember that the
Speaker 2: Red Team isn't doing this to punish the organization, right,
Speaker 2: They're doing it to help them improve their security posture.
Speaker 1: So it's not about scaring people, it's about motivating them
Speaker 1: to take action and improve their security precisely.
Speaker 2: And that's why it's so important for the red team
Speaker 2: and the organization to work closely together throughout the engagement. Okay,
Speaker 2: they need to understand the organization's business goals, risk tolerance,
Speaker 2: and operational constraints in order to design meaningful operational impacts.
Speaker 1: It makes sense that you wouldn't want to simulate an
Speaker 1: attack that would cripple the organization or put their operations
Speaker 1: at risk. You need to find that balance between demonstrating
Speaker 1: the impact and avoiding any real world damage exactly.
Speaker 2: And that's where the planning phase of a red team
Speaker 2: engagement is so critical. Okay, it's not just about using
Speaker 2: the right tools and techniques. It's about understanding the target
Speaker 2: organization and tailoring the engagement to their specific needs and objectives.
Speaker 1: So it's really a customized approach, almost like a tailored suit. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you're taking into account all the unique factors of that organization,
Speaker 1: their size, their industry, their risk profile, and designing an
Speaker 1: engagement that will be both effective and meaningful for them.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, and that brings us back to the importance of reporting. Okay,
Speaker 2: the Red Team report isn't just a list of vulnerabilities.
Speaker 2: It's a roadmap for improvement. It should tell the story
Speaker 2: of the attack, highlight key observations, and provide actionable recommendations
Speaker 2: for strengthening defenses.
Speaker 1: So it's almost like a consulting engagement, with the Red
Speaker 1: Team acting as trusted advisors to help the organization improve
Speaker 1: their security posture. But I'm curious how do they actually
Speaker 1: go about writing a report like that. I mean, it
Speaker 1: can't be as simple as just saying, hey, you guys
Speaker 1: have some vulnerabilities, you should fix them, right.
Speaker 2: It needs to be much more detailed and insightful than that. Okay,
Speaker 2: one of the things that stood up to me in
Speaker 2: the book is that they talk about using attack flow
Speaker 2: diagrams to visually represent the steps taken by the Red Team.
Speaker 2: I think that would be incredibly helpful for organizations to
Speaker 2: see exactly how the attack unfolded and what areas need
Speaker 2: the most attention.
Speaker 1: It's like giving them a blueprint of the attack, so
Speaker 1: they can see exactly where the weak points are and
Speaker 1: how to fortify them. But what about risk ratings? Do
Speaker 1: Red Team reports use the traditional high, medium, low scale.
Speaker 2: They can, but the book actually proposes an alternative approach
Speaker 2: that I find much more compelling.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 2: Instead of relying on a subjective risk matrix, right, they
Speaker 2: suggest using metrics based on the red team's goals.
Speaker 1: Oh interesting.
Speaker 2: Instead of saying this vulnerability has a high likelihood of
Speaker 2: being exploited, they might say we were able to achieve
Speaker 2: our goal of stealing sensitive data within twenty four hours.
Speaker 2: Oh wow. And this approach provides much more actionable information
Speaker 2: for the organization. It's not just about the euoretical risk
Speaker 2: of a vulnerability, it's about the demonstrable impact of a
Speaker 2: successful attack, and it really brings the risks to life.
Speaker 1: That's a great point. This all makes perfect sense, but
Speaker 1: it does raise another question. We've talked a lot about
Speaker 1: the technical aspects of red teaming, right, but what about
Speaker 1: the human element? I mean, how do they account for
Speaker 1: the fact that people are often the weakest link in
Speaker 1: the security chain.
Speaker 2: That's a great question, and it's something that RID teams
Speaker 2: are very aware of. Remember those social engineering techniques we
Speaker 2: talked about earlier, Yes, things like phishing, pre texting, and baiting.
Speaker 2: Red teams use those techniques to test an organization's human defenses.
Speaker 1: So they might send a phishing email that looks like
Speaker 1: it's from the IT department, asking employees to reset their passwords.
Speaker 2: Exactly, and they'll track how many employees click on the link,
Speaker 2: how many enter their credentials, and how far they get
Speaker 2: before they realize it's a scam. They might also conduct
Speaker 2: physical security tests, like seeing if they can gain access
Speaker 2: to secure areas by tailgating employees or maintenance workers.
Speaker 1: It sounds like they're really thinking outside the box, looking
Speaker 1: for any potential weak points in the organization's security. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and that brings up another question. How do they ensure
Speaker 1: they don't cause unintended damage? Right? I mean, some of
Speaker 1: these operational impacts could have serious consequences if they're not
Speaker 1: carefully controlled.
Speaker 2: That's where the concept of deconfliction comes in. It's all
Speaker 2: about making sure that the Red Team's activities are clearly
Speaker 2: distinguishable from real world attacks and that everyone is on
Speaker 2: the same page.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: We'll be back after the break to discuss that and more.
Speaker 1: Okay, so we've covered a lot of ground here, but
Speaker 1: it sounds like we're just getting started. Stay tuned, Welcome
Speaker 1: back to the deep dive. We're wrapping up our exploration
Speaker 1: of red teaming, and honestly, my mind is still buzzing
Speaker 1: from all of this incredible information. We were just talking
Speaker 1: about the importance of deconfliction, right right, making sure those
Speaker 1: Red team attacks don't get mistaken for the real deal.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's crucial, especially during those unannounced engagements. Imagine the
Speaker 2: chaos if this security team saw this suspicious activity and
Speaker 2: thought it was a genuine threat, you would have like
Speaker 2: a full blown incidant response for nothing.
Speaker 1: Oh, talk about a fire drill gone wrong. So how
Speaker 1: do they prevent that kind of mix up?
Speaker 2: Communication is key? Okay, The Red and Blue teams need
Speaker 2: to have like clear channels of communication. Okay, maybe predefined
Speaker 2: contact points, shared logs, or even real time monitoring of
Speaker 2: the Red team's activities.
Speaker 1: So it's like having a referee on hand to make
Speaker 1: sure everyone's playing by the rules and knows what's going
Speaker 1: on exactly.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and there needs to be a clear process for
Speaker 2: reporting and verifying anything suspicious. If the Blue team see
Speaker 2: something that looks like it could be the Red team,
Speaker 2: they need a way to quickly confirm.
Speaker 1: Makes sense, And if it's not the Red team.
Speaker 2: Well, then it's game on for a real incident response.
Speaker 2: But the key is to avoid those false alarms, especially
Speaker 2: when you're trying to assess how the organization would handle
Speaker 2: a real attack. But it's not just about deconfliction. Red
Speaker 2: teams also need to keep meticulous records of everything.
Speaker 1: They do, right I imagine, documentation is super important, not
Speaker 1: just to avoid confusion, but also so the organization can
Speaker 1: actually learn from the experience.
Speaker 2: Absolutely meticulous record keeping is essential for that post engagement analysis.
Speaker 2: The red team needs to be able to explain exactly
Speaker 2: what they did, how they did it, and what the
Speaker 2: organization can learn from it.
Speaker 1: It's like leaving a trail of breadcrumbs, but instead of
Speaker 1: leading to a gingerbread house, it leads to better security.
Speaker 2: I love that, and that's where those operator logs come in.
Speaker 2: The red team should document every single action they take,
Speaker 2: every command, every file they access, almost like a forensic investigation,
Speaker 2: but in reverse.
Speaker 1: So you can see exactly how they got in, where
Speaker 1: they went, and what they did once they were inside.
Speaker 1: It's like a step by step guide to hacking your
Speaker 1: own organization, but in a good way, of course, precisely.
Speaker 2: And those logs are invaluable for the Blue team as
Speaker 2: they try to understand the attack path and identify areas
Speaker 2: for improvement.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, So, to wrap things up, I think it's safe
Speaker 1: to say that that red teaming is a critical part
Speaker 1: of any organization's security strategy. It's not just about finding vulnerabilities.
Speaker 1: It's about understanding how attackers think, how they operate, and
Speaker 1: what they're capable of. And it's about using that knowledge
Speaker 1: to build stronger defenses and protect ourselves from real world threats.
Speaker 2: It really is. And the more we understand about how
Speaker 2: attackers operate, the better equipped will be to defend ourselves.
Speaker 1: And have said it better myself, this has been an
Speaker 1: incredible journey exploring this topic with you for our listeners.
Speaker 1: If you're interested in learning more about red teaming, we
Speaker 1: highly recommend checking out the book Red Team Development and Operations.
Speaker 1: It's a fantastic resource for anyone who wants to understand
Speaker 1: this increasingly important field of cybersecurity. Well that's all the
Speaker 1: time we have for today's deep dive. Thanks for joining
Speaker 1: us on this journey into the world of red teaming.
Speaker 1: We'll be back next week with another deep dive into
Speaker 1: a different fascinating topic. Until then, stay curious stay informed
Speaker 1: and stay secure.