1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,200 Speaker 1: So picture this right, You've got this NASA space probe 2 00:00:03,640 --> 00:00:05,960 way out in the boonies of the Solar System, right 3 00:00:06,040 --> 00:00:08,039 cruising along, and then bam, everything. 4 00:00:07,759 --> 00:00:09,839 Speaker 2: Goes silent, like hitting a cosmic brick wall. 5 00:00:10,080 --> 00:00:14,240 Speaker 1: Yeah exactly. But what could have that kind of power 6 00:00:14,519 --> 00:00:16,440 out there in the deep dark, Like, what kind of 7 00:00:16,519 --> 00:00:20,640 cosmic entity or just crazy phenomenon has the juice to 8 00:00:20,719 --> 00:00:23,039 just shut down a whole NASA mission. I mean that's 9 00:00:23,079 --> 00:00:24,640 a question, right, that's got to be the question. 10 00:00:24,760 --> 00:00:26,600 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it grabs you that whole idea of like 11 00:00:26,640 --> 00:00:29,640 the non bumping into the unknown, especially out there in 12 00:00:29,679 --> 00:00:32,280 the outer Solar System where things are already so mysterious. 13 00:00:32,719 --> 00:00:35,159 You think about that spacecraft running into something so weird 14 00:00:35,320 --> 00:00:39,240 just goes cut put. I mean, that's pure imagination fuel 15 00:00:39,280 --> 00:00:39,640 right there. 16 00:00:39,759 --> 00:00:42,679 Speaker 1: And we're talking full tank of imagination fuel on this 17 00:00:42,799 --> 00:00:46,000 deep dive, folks. We're heading straight for the Kuiper Belt, 18 00:00:46,039 --> 00:00:49,600 that massive zone of icy stuff way past Neptune. We're 19 00:00:49,640 --> 00:00:52,320 going to dig into some fascinating science from missions like 20 00:00:52,399 --> 00:00:56,039 New Horizons, and you know, we'll also toss in some 21 00:00:56,759 --> 00:00:59,280 let's just call them alternative views about what might be 22 00:00:59,320 --> 00:01:02,679 going on way there right on the edge exactly, And 23 00:01:02,719 --> 00:01:06,239 like always, we're all about navigating this icy wilderness together. 24 00:01:06,560 --> 00:01:09,519 We're going to separate the solid science from the more 25 00:01:09,560 --> 00:01:12,799 speculative stuff, the intriguing stuff. By the end you'll have 26 00:01:12,840 --> 00:01:15,640 a way better grasp of the mystery swirling around this 27 00:01:15,760 --> 00:01:17,760 distant frontier and what they might tell us about our 28 00:01:17,760 --> 00:01:19,680 place in the cosmos. So you're ready to trek out 29 00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:21,480 to the twilight zone of our Solar system. 30 00:01:21,879 --> 00:01:25,040 Speaker 2: Absolutely, the Kuiper Belt, even without all the weird stuff, 31 00:01:25,159 --> 00:01:28,359 is already a remarkable place, like it holds clues to 32 00:01:28,359 --> 00:01:31,079 how our Solar system formed, and it's a frontier where 33 00:01:31,079 --> 00:01:32,920 we're still figuring things out constantly. 34 00:01:33,000 --> 00:01:35,239 Speaker 1: So let's get our bearings. What exactly is this Kuiper 35 00:01:35,280 --> 00:01:37,079 Belt we keep talking about. Paint a picture for us. 36 00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:39,159 It's location, how big it is? All that? 37 00:01:39,439 --> 00:01:43,000 Speaker 2: Okay, So picture the Solar system right Sun in the middle, 38 00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:46,599 Planet's orbiting around now, zoom way past Neptune, something like 39 00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:49,159 two point eight billion miles out. That's where the Kiper 40 00:01:49,159 --> 00:01:51,840 Belt starts. It's not like Saturn's rings, all nice and thin. 41 00:01:52,120 --> 00:01:55,560 It's more like this huge doughnut shaped region stretching outward 42 00:01:55,599 --> 00:01:59,640 for another four point five billion miles. To really get 43 00:02:00,079 --> 00:02:02,480 how massive it is, think about this, the distance from 44 00:02:02,480 --> 00:02:04,879 the Sun to Earth. That's one astronomical unit or AU. 45 00:02:05,480 --> 00:02:07,840 The Kuiper belt goes from about thirty AU to fifty 46 00:02:07,840 --> 00:02:11,199 five AU. It's colossal, like, way bigger than the inner 47 00:02:11,240 --> 00:02:12,039 Solar System we know. 48 00:02:12,159 --> 00:02:14,000 Speaker 1: So it dwarfs the familiar totally. 49 00:02:14,120 --> 00:02:16,120 Speaker 2: Think about it like leaving your neighborhood and ending up 50 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:18,319 on another continent. That's the kind of leap and scale 51 00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:19,000 we're talking about. 52 00:02:19,039 --> 00:02:21,240 Speaker 1: Wow, Okay, that's mind blowing. It makes our little corner 53 00:02:21,240 --> 00:02:23,120 of the Solar System feel pretty small. So how did 54 00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:26,120 we even realize this giant icy doughnut was out there? 55 00:02:26,159 --> 00:02:27,120 Who tipped us off? 56 00:02:27,599 --> 00:02:29,680 Speaker 2: Well, it starts back in nineteen forty three with this 57 00:02:29,759 --> 00:02:32,879 Irish astronomer Kenneth Edgeworth. He's the one who first suggested 58 00:02:32,919 --> 00:02:35,080 there might be a bunch of icy bodies hanging out 59 00:02:35,080 --> 00:02:39,360 past Neptune, the source for those short period comments we see. 60 00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:42,639 Then in nineteen fifty one, Gerard Kuyper, a major thunder 61 00:02:42,680 --> 00:02:46,759 and planetary science, really fleshed out the idea. He proposed 62 00:02:46,759 --> 00:02:49,280 a whole belt of leftover stuff from the Solar system's 63 00:02:49,319 --> 00:02:53,120 berth way out beyond Neptune, so he's the namesake right on. 64 00:02:54,000 --> 00:02:56,599 But get this, we didn't actually see the Kuiper Belt 65 00:02:56,639 --> 00:02:59,840 for decades. It wasn't until nineteen ninety two that Distro 66 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:03,400 Remembers David Jewett and his grad student Jane lou finally 67 00:03:03,439 --> 00:03:06,400 spotted Kuiper built objects or KBOs for the first time. 68 00:03:06,759 --> 00:03:09,199 They named it after Kuiper, which is fitting. 69 00:03:09,680 --> 00:03:12,000 Speaker 1: It shows you how sometimes these theoretical ideas can take 70 00:03:12,080 --> 00:03:14,280 ages to be confirmed by actually seeing them. 71 00:03:14,280 --> 00:03:16,120 Speaker 2: It's proof that sometimes you gotta trust the math. 72 00:03:16,199 --> 00:03:16,879 Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. 73 00:03:16,960 --> 00:03:19,039 Speaker 2: So what's all this cosmic junk floating around in this 74 00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:22,439 giant doughnut? Is it just frozen water and rocks? That's 75 00:03:22,439 --> 00:03:27,080 the basic recipe. Yeah, but it's surprisingly diverse. We've got comets, 76 00:03:27,879 --> 00:03:31,280 dwarf planets like Pluto. You know, Pluto's a KBO and 77 00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:34,039 one of the biggest dwarf planets we know. And then 78 00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:36,840 there are asteroids and all sorts of other icy bodies 79 00:03:36,840 --> 00:03:40,240 of different sizes and makeups. It's basically a cosmic junkyard 80 00:03:40,280 --> 00:03:43,080 filled with leftovers from when the Solar System formed, the 81 00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:46,599 building blocks that never quite got together to make bigger planets. 82 00:03:46,120 --> 00:03:48,439 Speaker 1: Like the spare parts bin of the Solar System. 83 00:03:48,520 --> 00:03:50,960 Speaker 2: Uh huh, yeah, something like that. Yeah, And the really 84 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:53,039 important thing to remember is this is still a largely 85 00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:56,240 unexplored region. We're finding new things all the time and 86 00:03:56,319 --> 00:03:59,080 constantly refinding what we know about the Kuiper Belt. Just 87 00:03:59,159 --> 00:04:03,560 recently they found new KBOs with really weird orbits, throwing 88 00:04:03,599 --> 00:04:06,199 a wrench into our models of the outer Solar System. 89 00:04:06,280 --> 00:04:08,599 Speaker 1: It's like a cosmic game of hide and seek out there. 90 00:04:08,439 --> 00:04:10,159 Speaker 2: And we're just getting started. 91 00:04:09,919 --> 00:04:14,039 Speaker 1: A true frontier, which leads us to the good stuff, 92 00:04:14,240 --> 00:04:17,800 the anomalous Kuiper Belt objects you mentioned. Some of these 93 00:04:17,959 --> 00:04:20,240 icy guys aren't exactly following the rules. What kind of 94 00:04:20,240 --> 00:04:22,240 cosmic curve balls are they throwing at us? 95 00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:25,120 Speaker 2: Well, most of the KBOs we've seen seem to behave predictably, 96 00:04:25,560 --> 00:04:28,399 they follow paths and show characteristics that line up with 97 00:04:28,439 --> 00:04:30,800 our understanding of physics and how things move in space. 98 00:04:31,240 --> 00:04:33,279 But then you have these outliers, these odd balls that 99 00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:36,839 do things that make scientists scratch their heads and go 100 00:04:36,879 --> 00:04:39,680 back to the drawing board. Take, for example, an object 101 00:04:39,720 --> 00:04:42,240 they spotted back in nineteen ninety four by Michael Irwin 102 00:04:42,319 --> 00:04:43,120 and Nigieto. 103 00:04:43,319 --> 00:04:45,120 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, the one with the cool name Typhon. What 104 00:04:45,160 --> 00:04:46,680 made it so special it's spin. 105 00:04:46,879 --> 00:04:49,319 Speaker 2: It was spinning crazy fast. Yeah, they saw it getting 106 00:04:49,360 --> 00:04:52,399 brighter and dimmer in regular pattern, completing a full rotation 107 00:04:52,480 --> 00:04:54,720 every five point five hours. Now, way out in the 108 00:04:54,759 --> 00:04:57,839 Kuiper Belt, where it's cold and dark, things tend to 109 00:04:57,839 --> 00:05:01,040 move pretty slowly, So for an od that size to 110 00:05:01,079 --> 00:05:04,800 be spinning that fast, it's just bizarre. In fact, based 111 00:05:04,839 --> 00:05:07,199 on what we know about how these icy bodies hold together, 112 00:05:07,240 --> 00:05:11,439 mostly through wheak gravity, something like Typhon spinning that fast 113 00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:14,040 should rip itself apart. It'd be like watching a loosely 114 00:05:14,079 --> 00:05:17,480 packed snowball spin so fast it defies gravity and doesn't explode. 115 00:05:17,519 --> 00:05:19,759 Speaker 1: That's a serious head scratcher, it really. 116 00:05:19,600 --> 00:05:22,800 Speaker 2: Is, because our models of how these icy objects form 117 00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:26,199 suggest they should be pretty loosely bound. For something that 118 00:05:26,279 --> 00:05:29,040 size to spin that fast without disintegrating, it means it's 119 00:05:29,199 --> 00:05:31,480 either way denser than we thought, or there's some internal 120 00:05:31,519 --> 00:05:33,720 force holding it together something we don't understand yet. 121 00:05:33,759 --> 00:05:35,879 Speaker 1: A cosmic spinning top that breaks the rules. 122 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:36,920 Speaker 2: That's definitely weird. 123 00:05:37,879 --> 00:05:40,120 Speaker 1: And this was all before the New Horizons mission gave 124 00:05:40,199 --> 00:05:42,720 us a closer look at the Kuiper Belt, right, So, 125 00:05:43,399 --> 00:05:46,600 jump ahead the twenty sixteen New Horizons has done its 126 00:05:46,680 --> 00:05:49,560 amazing flyby of Pluto and it's on its way to 127 00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:52,439 another Kuiper Belt object. What was the name of that 128 00:05:52,519 --> 00:05:53,720 KBO it was going for? 129 00:05:54,079 --> 00:05:56,199 Speaker 2: The one found in ninety four was nineteen ninety four 130 00:05:56,480 --> 00:05:59,600 ES two, nicknamed Typhon. Now, when it comes to New Horizons, 131 00:05:59,639 --> 00:06:02,439 it did observe a lot of KBOs. But the story 132 00:06:02,439 --> 00:06:05,240 you might be thinking of often involves this hypothetical situation 133 00:06:05,319 --> 00:06:08,920 around April twenty sixteen, where the spacecraft was supposedly heading 134 00:06:08,920 --> 00:06:11,399 toward a different object that was also spinning super fast. 135 00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:15,560 In some stories, this object is called Adon. It's important 136 00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:18,560 to separate this hypothetical close encounter from what New Horizons 137 00:06:18,560 --> 00:06:21,439 actually saw and documented during its extended mission. 138 00:06:21,720 --> 00:06:25,920 Speaker 1: Right Umumua was that first interstellar object we ever saw 139 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:28,920 passing through our Solar System, and a lot of tension 140 00:06:28,920 --> 00:06:32,639 because it was so strange. But the specific fast spinning 141 00:06:32,720 --> 00:06:36,240 KBO that some accounts say New Horizons was approaching for 142 00:06:36,279 --> 00:06:39,360 a close flyby around that time is sometimes referred to 143 00:06:39,399 --> 00:06:42,879 as Addon. So in this story, New Horizons is getting 144 00:06:42,879 --> 00:06:45,399 ready for this close encounter with odd On, and then 145 00:06:45,480 --> 00:06:47,079 things get a little dramatic. 146 00:06:46,759 --> 00:06:49,319 Speaker 2: Right, That's how some of the stories tell it. The 147 00:06:49,399 --> 00:06:52,079 idea is that as new horizons got close to add On, 148 00:06:52,959 --> 00:06:56,800 all communication with the spacecraft just stopped. A CPU safing 149 00:06:56,879 --> 00:07:00,319 event happened, which is basically a safety feature that puts 150 00:07:00,319 --> 00:07:02,800 the spacecraft into a low power mode to protect itself 151 00:07:02,879 --> 00:07:04,240 if something goes wrong. 152 00:07:04,120 --> 00:07:05,399 Speaker 1: Like a cosmic circuit breaker. 153 00:07:05,519 --> 00:07:08,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, And these safing events can happen for all 154 00:07:08,399 --> 00:07:11,680 sorts of reasons out in deep space, radiation, spike, software, glitches, 155 00:07:11,759 --> 00:07:14,560 you name it. But one particular story suggests that a 156 00:07:14,639 --> 00:07:17,319 NASA engineer thought it might be something more deliberate, like 157 00:07:17,480 --> 00:07:20,480 signal jamming. The idea being that something out there was 158 00:07:20,519 --> 00:07:24,079 actively blocking our communication with a spacecraft, stopping us from 159 00:07:24,079 --> 00:07:25,240 getting a good look at add On. 160 00:07:25,720 --> 00:07:28,199 Speaker 1: Signal jamming. That sounds more like a spy movie than 161 00:07:28,240 --> 00:07:30,959 a space mission. What would be the point of someone 162 00:07:31,079 --> 00:07:34,480 or something blocking our view of a Kuiper Belt object. 163 00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:37,959 Speaker 2: That's where things get really speculative. We already talked about 164 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:40,560 how weird it is that some KBOs like Typhon spin 165 00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:44,040 so fast that five point five hour rotation has been 166 00:07:44,079 --> 00:07:47,600 a mystery for decades, And like you mentioned, some people 167 00:07:47,639 --> 00:07:50,600 have even suggested that maybe it's some form of artificial gravity, 168 00:07:50,959 --> 00:07:53,800 like what NASA has been researching for space habitats. The 169 00:07:53,879 --> 00:07:56,480 idea is that if you spin a cylindrical structure, you 170 00:07:56,480 --> 00:07:59,600 can create a force that mimics gravity along the inside. 171 00:07:59,279 --> 00:08:02,439 Speaker 1: Artificial gravity. That's classic sci fi. But how close are 172 00:08:02,439 --> 00:08:05,040 we to actually making that a reality for space travel. 173 00:08:05,560 --> 00:08:08,519 Speaker 2: The basic physics works, but actually making it work for 174 00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:11,079 humans in space has been tough. There's been a ton 175 00:08:11,120 --> 00:08:13,319 of research showing that when people are exposed to the 176 00:08:13,360 --> 00:08:16,720 forces created inside a spinning environment, it can cause all 177 00:08:16,720 --> 00:08:20,519 sorts of problems, nausee, disorientation, even long term health issues. 178 00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:23,040 Speaker 1: So basically, our bodies don't like being spun around. 179 00:08:23,319 --> 00:08:25,639 Speaker 2: Yeah, pretty much. The point some of these stories are 180 00:08:25,639 --> 00:08:29,319 making is that if Adon is spinning that fast and 181 00:08:29,439 --> 00:08:32,559 somehow creating its own internal gravity, it might point to 182 00:08:32,600 --> 00:08:35,120 a level of technology or a natural process that we 183 00:08:35,279 --> 00:08:36,240 just don't get yet. 184 00:08:36,480 --> 00:08:39,799 Speaker 1: So we've got this strange spinning object, maybe hinting at 185 00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:43,440 some unknown tech or physics, and then our spacecraft goes 186 00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:46,200 silent as it gets close. It's a recipe for some 187 00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:49,360 pretty out there theories, and the Kuiper Belt itself you 188 00:08:49,399 --> 00:08:51,360 said it's a good place to hide. Why is that? 189 00:08:51,840 --> 00:08:55,360 Speaker 2: Think about how massive it is, trillions of cubic miles 190 00:08:55,360 --> 00:08:59,399 of space lit by this faint distant sun. Finding small 191 00:08:59,480 --> 00:09:03,080 dark object there is like finding a needle in a haystack. Plus, 192 00:09:03,159 --> 00:09:05,559 the Kuiper Belt is packed with icy bodies. It's like 193 00:09:05,559 --> 00:09:09,559 a cosmic minefield. Spotting one unusual object and all that 194 00:09:09,720 --> 00:09:12,279 is almost impossible. It's like trying to find a specific 195 00:09:12,320 --> 00:09:14,879 grain of sand on a beach at night. The distance 196 00:09:14,919 --> 00:09:17,879 and all those other objects create the perfect camouflage for 197 00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:19,759 anything that wants to stay hidden. 198 00:09:19,720 --> 00:09:21,360 Speaker 1: Like a cosmic game of hide and seek on a 199 00:09:21,399 --> 00:09:23,679 grand scale. So what happened to New Horizons after it 200 00:09:23,679 --> 00:09:26,200 when silent? Did it just magically come back online? 201 00:09:26,399 --> 00:09:29,519 Speaker 2: That's what the story says. After some time being quiet, 202 00:09:29,639 --> 00:09:33,039 the spacecraft supposedly started talking to us again and continued 203 00:09:33,080 --> 00:09:35,720 on its mission. The reason for the silence in this 204 00:09:35,799 --> 00:09:38,600 version of events was never really figured out. And these 205 00:09:38,600 --> 00:09:41,480 accounts also say that New Horizons saw other Kuiper Belt 206 00:09:41,519 --> 00:09:45,039 objects acting strangely during its journey, as if something out 207 00:09:45,039 --> 00:09:46,399 there was messing with them. 208 00:09:46,679 --> 00:09:49,480 Speaker 1: Other KBOs acting up. What kind of strange stuff are 209 00:09:49,519 --> 00:09:52,919 we talking about? More crazy spinning or something else entirely. 210 00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:56,279 Speaker 2: The details in these stories are usually pretty vague, but 211 00:09:56,360 --> 00:10:00,919 the general idea is that these objects were moving or 212 00:10:01,039 --> 00:10:03,759 doing things that didn't make sense according to normal science. 213 00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:05,879 It's like the Kuiper Belt, is this place where the 214 00:10:06,200 --> 00:10:08,399 unexpected is more common than we realize. 215 00:10:08,519 --> 00:10:10,840 Speaker 1: It's like the wild West of the Solar System. But 216 00:10:10,879 --> 00:10:13,159 of course we need to address the official side of things. 217 00:10:13,559 --> 00:10:17,000 What does NASA say about communication problems with New Horizons 218 00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:20,480 around that time and this whole total control blackout idea 219 00:10:20,519 --> 00:10:22,000 that's been floating around online. 220 00:10:22,159 --> 00:10:26,000 Speaker 2: Officially, NASA considers the New Horizon's mission a huge success. 221 00:10:26,600 --> 00:10:29,120 They do admit there was a short communication blip back 222 00:10:29,159 --> 00:10:32,240 in July twenty fifteen, about ten days before the Pluto 223 00:10:32,279 --> 00:10:35,279 fly by, but as a known issue, something about a 224 00:10:35,360 --> 00:10:38,039 memory overload, and it only lasted for about an hour. 225 00:10:38,759 --> 00:10:40,960 NASA is adamant that this had nothing to do with 226 00:10:41,039 --> 00:10:44,639 any encounters with fast spinning KBOs in April twenty sixteen. 227 00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:48,519 Their records don't show any long communication blackout or signs 228 00:10:48,519 --> 00:10:51,080 of interference during that time. They also point out that 229 00:10:51,120 --> 00:10:54,799 this dramatic total control blackout story seems to come from 230 00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:57,080 a specific unofficial source online. 231 00:10:57,399 --> 00:10:59,600 Speaker 1: It's a good reminder that not everything you read online 232 00:10:59,639 --> 00:11:02,360 is true, so especially when it comes to complex science stuff. 233 00:11:02,480 --> 00:11:04,360 But even with that in mind, the Kuper Belt does 234 00:11:04,399 --> 00:11:07,080 seem to have some real scientific mysteries that are keeping 235 00:11:07,080 --> 00:11:09,440 researchers busy, and that brings us to some of the 236 00:11:09,440 --> 00:11:12,480 more mainstream theories, like the idea of a hidden planet 237 00:11:12,519 --> 00:11:14,639 sometimes called planet X or planet nine. 238 00:11:14,600 --> 00:11:18,679 Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. The idea of a large, undiscovered planet lurking 239 00:11:18,720 --> 00:11:21,399 in the Outer Solar System has been around for a while. 240 00:11:21,879 --> 00:11:24,440 It's often used to explain why some of the objects 241 00:11:24,480 --> 00:11:28,639 out past Neptune has such weird orbits. One specific theory 242 00:11:28,679 --> 00:11:31,799 suggests that our sun might have a binary companion, a 243 00:11:31,840 --> 00:11:34,399 brown dwarf, hanging out way out in the Kuiper Belt. 244 00:11:35,039 --> 00:11:38,399 Brown dwarfs are like failed stars. They're bigger than planets, 245 00:11:38,440 --> 00:11:40,639 but not big enough to start burning like a real star, 246 00:11:41,159 --> 00:11:43,639 so they don't give off much light, which would make 247 00:11:43,679 --> 00:11:46,120 them super hard to see in the darkness of the 248 00:11:46,159 --> 00:11:47,200 Outer Solar System. 249 00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:52,000 Speaker 1: A massive invisible object shaping the Outer Solar System. What 250 00:11:52,159 --> 00:11:53,879 kind of effects could something like that have? 251 00:11:54,240 --> 00:11:56,480 Speaker 2: A brown dwarf, or even a big planet like this 252 00:11:56,559 --> 00:11:59,480 planet nine would have a huge gravitational pull on the 253 00:11:59,519 --> 00:12:01,600 outer planet that's and everything else in the Guiper Belt. 254 00:12:02,039 --> 00:12:05,000 That poll could explain why some KBOs have those strange, 255 00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:08,120 clustered orbits that don't quite fit with our current models 256 00:12:08,159 --> 00:12:10,720 of the Solar System. It's like an invisible hand guiding 257 00:12:10,720 --> 00:12:12,879 the movements of everything out there. And like you said, 258 00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:16,000 NASA and other astronomers have been actively searching for planet 259 00:12:16,080 --> 00:12:17,759 nine because finding it would solve a lot of these 260 00:12:17,799 --> 00:12:18,879 gravitational puzzles. 261 00:12:19,159 --> 00:12:21,399 Speaker 1: So Planet X could be the reason behind some of 262 00:12:21,440 --> 00:12:22,799 the Kuiper Belt's weirdness. 263 00:12:23,080 --> 00:12:25,639 Speaker 2: It's a leading theory that could explain some of the 264 00:12:25,759 --> 00:12:28,639 orbital anomalies we see, but it's important to remember that 265 00:12:28,679 --> 00:12:32,200 it doesn't necessarily explain everything, like those fast spinning objects 266 00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:35,440 or the alleged new horizons blackout. And then there are 267 00:12:35,440 --> 00:12:37,960 those individual objects out there that are just plain strange, 268 00:12:38,080 --> 00:12:43,120 like KBO two thousand and eight kV forty two, nicknamed Dracula. 269 00:12:43,279 --> 00:12:46,360 Speaker 1: Dracula, that's a pretty intense name for a chunk of ice. 270 00:12:46,399 --> 00:12:47,759 What makes it so blood thirsty. 271 00:12:47,919 --> 00:12:49,919 Speaker 2: It's not about what it's made of, it's how it moves. 272 00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:53,000 Pretty much everything in our Solar system planets, asteroids you 273 00:12:53,039 --> 00:12:55,519 name it, orbits the Sun in the same direction. That's 274 00:12:55,519 --> 00:12:58,039 called prograde motion, and they all pretty much stay in 275 00:12:58,039 --> 00:13:00,000 the same flat plane called the plane of the eclipse. 276 00:13:00,919 --> 00:13:03,080 Think of it like cars on a racetrack, all going 277 00:13:03,080 --> 00:13:06,399 the same way. But Dracula breaks all the rules. It 278 00:13:06,399 --> 00:13:08,840 has a retrograde orbit, meaning it goes in the opposite 279 00:13:08,879 --> 00:13:12,039 direction to almost everything else, and its orbit is tilted 280 00:13:12,039 --> 00:13:15,120 at a crazy angle, almost perpendicular to that flat plane. 281 00:13:15,159 --> 00:13:16,879 It's like seeing a car going the wrong way in 282 00:13:16,960 --> 00:13:17,720 a busy highway. 283 00:13:17,840 --> 00:13:20,559 Speaker 1: Definitely a rebel. How big is this rogue icy body. 284 00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:24,720 Speaker 2: Estimates put it at about thirty meters across, so not tiny. 285 00:13:25,240 --> 00:13:27,519 If it hit Earth, it would cause some serious damage, 286 00:13:27,639 --> 00:13:30,639 kind of like the Tunguska event Luckily, its orbit keeps 287 00:13:30,639 --> 00:13:31,879 it far away from us, so we don't have to 288 00:13:31,919 --> 00:13:34,440 worry about that. But the fact that it exists and 289 00:13:34,440 --> 00:13:37,279 has such a weird orbit is a problem for our 290 00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:39,960 models of how the Solar system formed. It's hard to 291 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:42,799 explain how it ended up in that backward tilted orbit 292 00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:45,519 through the normal processes. 293 00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:47,120 Speaker 1: Like it came from somewhere else entirely. 294 00:13:47,279 --> 00:13:48,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a real mystery. 295 00:13:48,679 --> 00:13:51,360 Speaker 1: It sounds like the Kuiper Belt is full of surprises, 296 00:13:51,480 --> 00:13:56,000 spinning weirdos, orbital rebels, you name it. We've covered some 297 00:13:56,039 --> 00:13:58,559 of the scientific mysteries and the theories trying to explain them. 298 00:13:58,600 --> 00:14:00,799 But as we hinted at earlier, there's another side to 299 00:14:00,840 --> 00:14:05,559 this discussion, the world of controlled information and whistleblower accounts. 300 00:14:06,279 --> 00:14:08,559 This is where our deep dive takes a turn into 301 00:14:08,600 --> 00:14:10,440 some pretty unconventional territory. 302 00:14:10,679 --> 00:14:15,279 Speaker 2: Definitely, some narratives surrounding space exploration claim that official organizations 303 00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:18,879 like NASA are messing with images or hiding information from 304 00:14:18,919 --> 00:14:21,919 the public. The reasons for this alleged cover up often 305 00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:25,720 involve theories about hiding evidence of unusual objects, alien life, 306 00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:29,320 or other big discoveries that could change everything. Plus, the 307 00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:33,200 Internet is full of clickbait headlines announcing amazing space discoveries 308 00:14:33,519 --> 00:14:36,440 that often turn out to be nothing. This creates a 309 00:14:36,440 --> 00:14:41,000 sense of mistrust and fuel speculation about hidden truths. It's 310 00:14:41,039 --> 00:14:42,799 a confusing information landscape out there. 311 00:14:42,879 --> 00:14:46,120 Speaker 1: It's like a constant stream of tantalizing hints but no 312 00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:48,720 real evidence. It's easy to see why people get suspicious 313 00:14:48,759 --> 00:14:51,720 and look for alternative explanations. And then we have the 314 00:14:51,759 --> 00:14:54,799 really extraordinary claims like the story of Rebecca Rose and 315 00:14:54,840 --> 00:14:57,840 a twenty and back secret space program. This is where 316 00:14:57,879 --> 00:14:59,279 things get really strange. 317 00:14:59,360 --> 00:15:02,279 Speaker 2: Yeah of people clowning to have been abducted as kids, 318 00:15:02,279 --> 00:15:05,159 given psychic training, and then set on twenty year missions 319 00:15:05,159 --> 00:15:08,720 in a secret space program, often involving advanced tech and aliens, 320 00:15:09,159 --> 00:15:11,720 is a common theme in certain circles. The idea of 321 00:15:11,759 --> 00:15:14,039 a dar fleet operating in the shadows is a big 322 00:15:14,080 --> 00:15:15,440 part of these alleged programs. 323 00:15:15,799 --> 00:15:17,919 Speaker 1: So let's break down some of the main points of 324 00:15:17,960 --> 00:15:21,000 Rebecca Rose's story. From a young age, she talks about 325 00:15:21,039 --> 00:15:24,840 being abducted repeatedly and undergoing intense psychic training on a 326 00:15:24,840 --> 00:15:28,120 base on the Moon. During these experiences, she claims to 327 00:15:28,120 --> 00:15:32,159 have met various extraterrestrials, including the Grays and the Mantids. 328 00:15:32,720 --> 00:15:36,279 This training apparently involved developing telepathy to communicate with other 329 00:15:36,360 --> 00:15:40,120 abductees and even having her DNA taken. Then, at nine 330 00:15:40,159 --> 00:15:43,799 years old, she was supposedly recruited into this dark. 331 00:15:43,639 --> 00:15:47,240 Speaker 2: Fleet, and according to her, this recruitment involved trauma based 332 00:15:47,279 --> 00:15:50,159 mind control at a facility under Great Lakes Naval Station. 333 00:15:50,919 --> 00:15:54,080 After that, she says she traveled to different places using jumpgates, 334 00:15:54,399 --> 00:15:58,639 basically instant transportation portals. Her supposed missions included serving in 335 00:15:58,679 --> 00:16:02,039 a Mars defense force, where she flew modified helicopters to 336 00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:05,320 protect a human base from native Martian life forms, which 337 00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:08,320 she describes as mantids and reptilians. She also claims to 338 00:16:08,320 --> 00:16:11,320 have been given cybernetic enhancements that made her stronger and smarter, 339 00:16:11,480 --> 00:16:13,200 basically turning her into a super soldier. 340 00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:16,879 Speaker 1: It gets even wilder when she describes being essentially sold 341 00:16:16,960 --> 00:16:21,200 to a reptilian species called the Draconians, who she portrays 342 00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:23,600 as the rulers of Planet X, which is located beyond 343 00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:26,720 the Kuiper Belt. She says the Draconians are an ancient, 344 00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:30,919 technologically advanced race with strong psychic powers and a society 345 00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:34,480 based on fear and control. Her job apparently involved being 346 00:16:34,519 --> 00:16:37,840 a patrol pilot protecting a Draconian ship orbiting Planet X. 347 00:16:38,159 --> 00:16:39,919 During this time, she claims she was forced to do 348 00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:42,840 some pretty bad things, like killing harmless creatures. After her 349 00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:45,240 supposed twenty year tour of duty, she says she was 350 00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:47,879 aid to regress her consciousness, sent back to her nine 351 00:16:47,919 --> 00:16:50,600 year old body with her memory suppressed, and these memories 352 00:16:50,600 --> 00:16:52,200 only came back to her later in life. 353 00:16:52,320 --> 00:16:56,200 Speaker 2: It's an incredibly detailed and complex story with elements from 354 00:16:56,240 --> 00:16:59,840 science fiction and various conspiracy theories. When you hear claims 355 00:16:59,840 --> 00:17:02,399 like this, it's important to think about where they come 356 00:17:02,440 --> 00:17:05,279 from and if there's any way to check if they're true. 357 00:17:05,319 --> 00:17:08,000 This twenty and back narrative is often linked to Corey Good, 358 00:17:08,440 --> 00:17:11,480 who started telling a similar story around twenty ten, also 359 00:17:11,519 --> 00:17:14,119 claiming he was recruited as a kid into a secret 360 00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:17,759 space program and then age regressed after twenty years. But 361 00:17:17,880 --> 00:17:20,039 Good himself has said that parts of his story might 362 00:17:20,079 --> 00:17:23,000 be dreams or delusions. He's also been in legal fights 363 00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:25,319 over who owns the rights to the twenty and back idea. 364 00:17:25,519 --> 00:17:27,960 Speaker 1: So the guy who made this twenty and backstory famous 365 00:17:28,039 --> 00:17:30,319 has doubts about it himself and even tried to claim 366 00:17:30,359 --> 00:17:32,880 ownership of it. That definitely raises some red flags. 367 00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:35,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, it does. And what's interesting is that the core 368 00:17:35,079 --> 00:17:39,119 ideas in this twenty and backstory, like kids being recruited 369 00:17:39,119 --> 00:17:43,079 into secret programs, psychic training, age regression, and encounters with 370 00:17:43,160 --> 00:17:47,799 reptilians actually existed before Goods started talking about them. You 371 00:17:47,839 --> 00:17:51,160 can find similar elements in Michael Relt's The Mars Records books, 372 00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:53,559 which came out in two thousand. Those people like al 373 00:17:53,599 --> 00:17:56,440 Buelick have also talked about age regression and being sent 374 00:17:56,519 --> 00:17:58,799 back in time, and their stories are even older. And 375 00:17:58,839 --> 00:18:01,079 like you mentioned earlier, Bill Cooper talked about a secret 376 00:18:01,160 --> 00:18:04,559 Navy space program way back in nineteen ninety two. This 377 00:18:04,640 --> 00:18:07,000 suggests that these ideas have been around in certain groups 378 00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:10,400 for a while, with each new story adding its own unique, 379 00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:12,599 often sci fi inspired details. 380 00:18:12,680 --> 00:18:15,039 Speaker 1: It sounds more like an evolving story than a real 381 00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:17,920 historical event. And our source material is pretty clear about 382 00:18:17,960 --> 00:18:21,000 these twenty and back claims, saying they're probably not true 383 00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:23,759 and almost definitely not true. That's a pretty strong statement 384 00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:24,319 it is. 385 00:18:24,519 --> 00:18:27,359 Speaker 2: There's no real evidence to support these stories, and they're 386 00:18:27,400 --> 00:18:32,000 full of inconsistencies and fantastical elements, so being skeptical is understandable. 387 00:18:32,319 --> 00:18:34,960 But the fact that these stories exist and continue to 388 00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:38,680 be popular shows how fascinated people are with the unknown 389 00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:42,319 and how much distrust there is towards official explanations about 390 00:18:42,359 --> 00:18:46,559 space and government secrecy. This specific idea of the Draconian's 391 00:18:46,599 --> 00:18:50,279 controlling access beyond the Kuiper Belt plays into that fear 392 00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:53,079 that maybe were being kept from exploring the cosmos by 393 00:18:53,079 --> 00:18:54,440 some powerful hidden force. 394 00:18:54,599 --> 00:18:57,680 Speaker 1: It's a cool idea, but probably not very realistic. But 395 00:18:57,839 --> 00:19:00,440 let's get back to something more tangible. What about the 396 00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:03,599 future of our actual scientific exploration of the Kuiper Belt. 397 00:19:03,680 --> 00:19:06,240 Could there be valuable resources out there or could it 398 00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:08,440 be a stepping stone for deeper space travel? 399 00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:11,319 Speaker 2: Definitely, the Kuiper Belt is thought to have tons of 400 00:19:11,519 --> 00:19:14,400 icy stuff like water, ice, and frozen gases, which could 401 00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:17,720 be turned into water, rocket fuel, and other things we 402 00:19:17,759 --> 00:19:19,960 need for long space missions going further out into the 403 00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:22,720 Solar System or even beyond. It could be like a 404 00:19:22,759 --> 00:19:27,759 cosmic gas station and supply depot for future interstellar travel. Plus, 405 00:19:27,880 --> 00:19:30,920 studying these ancient icy bodies can tell us a lot 406 00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:34,079 about the early Solar System and how planets formed, So. 407 00:19:34,119 --> 00:19:37,000 Speaker 1: Even with all the mysteries and wild stories, there is 408 00:19:37,079 --> 00:19:41,680 a real scientific reason to keep exploring this distant region. 409 00:19:41,519 --> 00:19:44,519 Speaker 2: Exactly, and some researchers think that the Kuiper Belt might 410 00:19:44,559 --> 00:19:47,519 be more active than we realize, and that this activity 411 00:19:47,559 --> 00:19:50,400 could have subtle effects on the whole Solar System, maybe 412 00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:52,880 even influencing things here on Earth in ways we don't 413 00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:55,920 fully understand. The best way to figure all this out 414 00:19:56,000 --> 00:19:59,000 is to send more spacecraft out there for long term exploration. 415 00:19:59,599 --> 00:20:01,880 But of course, like some of those more imaginative stories, 416 00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:04,839 suggests whether hypothetical beings like the Draconians would let us 417 00:20:04,839 --> 00:20:05,759 do that as a whole other. 418 00:20:05,759 --> 00:20:08,880 Speaker 1: Question, that's a pretty wild thought. So as we wrap 419 00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:11,880 up our deep dive into the Kuiper Belt, it's clear 420 00:20:11,920 --> 00:20:14,000 that this place is way more than just a bunch 421 00:20:14,039 --> 00:20:18,079 of leftover ice. We've encountered real scientific puzzles like those 422 00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:22,640 crazy spinning KBOs and the rebellious orbit of Dracula. And 423 00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:25,880 while the stories about secret space programs and alien power 424 00:20:25,920 --> 00:20:30,079 struggles are intriguing, they're probably not true. But hopefully you, 425 00:20:30,119 --> 00:20:32,519 our listener, now have a better understanding of both the 426 00:20:32,559 --> 00:20:35,680 science and the stories surrounding this final frontier of our 427 00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:36,400 Solar system. 428 00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:39,559 Speaker 2: The Kuiper Belt is a powerful reminder of just how 429 00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:42,599 much we still don't know about our cosmic neighborhood, and 430 00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:45,200 how much there is left to discover. It's a place 431 00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:48,359 where our scientific knowledge is constantly being challenged and where 432 00:20:48,359 --> 00:20:49,920 we're likely to find more surprises. 433 00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:52,200 Speaker 1: So here's a final thought to chew on as we 434 00:20:52,279 --> 00:20:55,359 finish our journey to the icy edge of our Solar system. 435 00:20:55,920 --> 00:20:58,759 Given the mind boggling size of the universe and the 436 00:20:58,839 --> 00:21:02,640 limits of our current technology, what else could be out 437 00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:05,759 there lurking beyond our ability to see it. Could there 438 00:21:05,759 --> 00:21:08,920 be things, phenomena, or even forms of life hiding in 439 00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:11,079 the outer reaches of our solar system that we haven't 440 00:21:11,079 --> 00:21:14,119 even imagined yet. It makes you think about that line 441 00:21:14,119 --> 00:21:16,960 between real science and our human desire to fill the 442 00:21:17,039 --> 00:21:20,480 unknown with possibilities, no matter how wild they might seem. 443 00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:22,799 Speaker 2: The Kuiper Belt is a perfect example of that. It's 444 00:21:22,799 --> 00:21:25,440 a place where science and imagination collide. 445 00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:26,880 Speaker 1: And who knows what we'll find out there next. Thanks 446 00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:29,200 for joining us on this deep dive. Folks. Until next time, 447 00:21:29,319 --> 00:21:31,000 keep looking up and keep wondering.