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Speaker 1: I wanted to take a swing at the what do

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we do question, because my answer to that question really

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does change if I'm depending on what kind of audience

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I'm talking to. Right when I'm talking to black folks,

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my answer is, well, what you're supposed to do, brother,

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is survive, right, because white folks have done this to

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us before. We have seen this before, and we have

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survived this before. As Karen was kind of alluding to,

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we know what's about to happen. White folks is about

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to happen. White folks is what's happening, and black people

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need to survive this current eruption and fever in white supremacy.

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White folks, when I'm talking to a predominantly white audience,

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they have different responsibilities. You know, they have responsibilities to

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get over themselves, deal with their own race. You know,

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all the kind of usual stuff that you would tell

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white folks in eighteen sixty two, that you would tell

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white folks in nineteen fifty nine, Like it's the same

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story that white folks have to deal you know, have

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to learn shoot with their mouths closed and get over themselves.

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But in this moment, black folks just need to survive

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this because white. You know this. We are in a

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phase that we have been in before, and we are

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now what we are experiencing the white violence against us,

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and we need to go into survival mode. But carry

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your shaking here.

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Speaker 2: I completely disagree, And I think the centering of whiteness

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as a thing as if as if a group of

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people that spend one point six trillion dollars and you

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could ask target the impact of that, we maybe fifteen

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sixteen percent of population, but can shut down a corporation

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because we decide not to go there because we spend

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more than any other group in this country. That's power.

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So I'm not I'm not surviving this. I'm thriving in this.

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I'm not surviving. I'm coming out the other side where

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I'm not dependent upon a system that never considered me anyway.

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So I'm not even centering whiteness. Do what you do

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and see how it works out, because I guarantee you

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just like building up this country. You needed us, then

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go to need us again. And if we ever figure

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out where the real source of power in this country is,

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it's going to be a different ballgame. So I'm not

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surviving this time. I'm thriving and building and not centering

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anything that they're doing. We're going to figure out, neighborhood

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by neighborhood what we need, and we're going to provide

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it for ourselves. We're going to feed ourselves, We're going

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to educate ourselves. Go ahead, tear up the education system.

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You haven't really cared about our education anyway. Who gives

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a damn go ahead, tear it all down. I'm like,

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let's go not surviving, thriving And I feel like that's

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a victim mentality that I will not ever ever it

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here too.

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Speaker 3: And why do you translate? How do you translate across

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I mean, I love that and would agree with it

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in large measure, but how do you translate that in

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a way that it's actualized? Because, you know, telling people

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to thrive in the face of what Ellie's describing becomes

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in this day and age, largely because we are locked

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in into the into these boxes that people see on

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the screen right now. We are locked into a different

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kind of social contract in which what are you know,

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white and black grandfathers and great grandparents, uh, you know,

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dealt with to thrive those aspects of our humanity of thriving.

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I think have been morphed or changed in ways that

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just that I think make that a little bit a

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little bit more difficult. I'm going to give that Tomalin,

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because I know you got to run, so to give

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you the word on that before you go.

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Speaker 4: I'm just honored to be with this group. I'm sorry

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that I am a mass.

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Speaker 2: And can I say it's nice to meet you. I

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hope we can connect at some point. You have well

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I I.

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Speaker 4: Was listening to you and I was like, oh, I

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got to get her on the podcast. And by the way,

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like I do think I have been, there's been The

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rev was also involved in the rever now was also

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involved in the Target protest, and I remember when it started,

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and like that is amazing, Like that is that is seismic.

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And I do think we don't spend enough time talking

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about like just how there is really good organizing going

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there are really there is actual, really good organizing going on,

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and like we get so stuck in all of the

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bleakness of this moment. But the Target Protest is a

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real example of just like with the lawyers, you know,

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this is not going the way they want to go.

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And I just one last thing before I go, Uh,

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Trump made inroads with Latino voters. Right. Maybe you saw

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yesterday the woman who runs Latinos for Trump not pleased

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so as much as like there, you know, he's grown

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his coalition, God knows how by I think there will

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be a sort of lesson. I mean, I don't want it,

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and it's terrible, but there is this way in which

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he has you know, Democrats men all this time being

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like how can we win back Latino voters? And he

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is now jailing Latino voters. So that and that's so

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I just think that's worth thinking about. I'm so sorry, goodbye, goodbye, goodbye.

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I appreciate all of you, and please keep sorry Mini.

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Speaker 3: Donge faster everybody. Thank you so much Mony for being

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with us. I really appreciate your time. So, but you know,

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I think for me that you know, Karen raises, I

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think a very interesting set of issues. They're not problems,

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they're issues, and how how do you navigate? I tend

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to align with Karen in that regard, in that I'm

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just gonna do me because I'm not expecting anybody to

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make it better for me, and so I've got to

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create that lane. The question becomes when, if and when

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the obstacles, John, are so high that you know you've

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got bootstrapped thugs, you know, jack booted, you know, law

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enforcement on the ground who are buying into this bullshit

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You've got. You've got business leaders who want to strip

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away your identity, your heritage, and your history because they're

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afraid of dear leader in that bullshit. How do I

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carve out that space where I'm going to create a

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life for my family, grow the business that I have,

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and continue to try to thrive in an environment that

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is more and more repressive.

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Speaker 5: I'm so glad you asked that question, Michael, because I

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really want to talk to your viewers about bitcoin and

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how it can change your life and change your entire

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family's economy. And look, and I engulge h, Well, I

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have an entire seminar at the Airport Radison just this

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weekend about buying gold and the Church of Scientific You

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need to.

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Speaker 6: Clean my gutters out first, No, you need.

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Speaker 5: To forget what you've heard about Dianetics and just read

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the book for yourself and understand health. Well, we're gonna

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make America great again, you see. And I'm here to

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give you white people a sense of dignity and that's

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how it works.

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Speaker 3: Folks.

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Speaker 5: Look, this guy's invoking the Insurrection Act like it's a

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promo code. Okay, he's not fighting chaos, he's manufacturing it,

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and most of us can see that. And the problem

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is those charming, non college educated Caucasians and quite a

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few of the ones with degrees, they don't mind it.

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But that's the one insurrection that's actually underway. The California

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thing's been brewing. I mean, cutting the UC research grants

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like this should have outraged all white people. This is

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gonna sabotage cancer cures, this is going to stop genetic breakthroughs.

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But hey, you know, we're gonna own the Libs and

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make Gramma die sooner. I mean, at some point, the

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fact that all these policies are like sawing off your

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own head because your brain disagrees with you is going

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to weigh in on people.

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Speaker 3: Now.

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Speaker 5: With California, they give the federal government eighty billion more

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than it gets back. So you know, if Gavin Newsom

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wants to take a break from prepping his new reality show,

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Dancing with Fascists, I think Gavin's learned maybe that maybe

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bagas aren't the pals he was hoping they would be,

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but he can just come out and say, should we

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reinvest that money? We could have sent the federal government

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to welfare states back into our economy. I mean, that

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whole thing was all rubbish. Congress controls the purse strings.

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Trump couldn't do it. But it shows the media is

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on the side of clicks. It's not that they're on

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the side of Trump. It's that boring governance doesn't get

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the eyeballs, so you can't count on the media. You

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can count on journalists, but not the actual media. I

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think this is another area where capitalism may save us,

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where the market realizing this bullshit doesn't really help the

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bottom line may save us. Elon's you know, Elon's realizing

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that he's beholden to the shareholders even more than the

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voices in his head. What I keep thinking of is

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Berlin and those white people, and how those particular Caucasians

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needed to see Berlin in rubble before they could believe

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that their leader had not been straight with them. They

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needed to see how much damage has been caused by

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their believing in him, and that led to a national shame,

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which is why they don't wave their swastika around like

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we wave our Confederate swastik around in this country because

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they actually had to face the consequences of their vote.

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I think it's going to have to get worse before

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it gets better, and a lot of good people are

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going to be hurt. But I have no doubt whatsoever

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that it is going to get better. The winner and

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all of this may be the seven inches of plaque

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around Donald Trump's heart, because that could be the game

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changer any day here. But in the long run, you know,

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we're going to need a democratic party that can at

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least spell the words truth or reconciliation committee when this

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is done, because this will not last. As Ellie said,

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the incompetence is too great. This is a lot like Bush,

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who who might still be worse than Trump because he

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won't come out against him. But under Bush, the stupid

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was always greater than the sinister, and that incompetence kept

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us from a fascist state under Bush Cheney, that same

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in competence may save our lives here. And of course

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noble patriots like Rand Paul for opposing the stupid bill.

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But Trump has got the losses. His base doesn't know

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he has the losses because the media is not covering

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the losses. But he's getting smaller and smaller and smaller

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every day. And the people who own this country, the

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oligarchs who use Trump's golf course and think he's cute,

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They're gonna get tired of this too.

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Speaker 1: One of the reasons, though, John, that the media doesn't

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cover the losses is because the Democratic Party that you

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alluded to, and whenever I hear that name now I

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see read the Democratic Party that you alluded to is

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the most incompetent opposition ruling in the modern world. Like

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they are they are, they are beyond pathetic.

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Speaker 4: La.

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Speaker 5: If you talk that way anymore, I'm gonna write a letter.

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I'm gonna write a letter.

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Speaker 3: Podcast.

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Speaker 2: I think I think I think that speaks to something Lucy

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was saying. Was she mentioned the Republican Party? What's the

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Republican Party? Who's the Republican Party?

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Speaker 3: Is this?

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Speaker 2: Are these Republicans? Are these Democrats?

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Speaker 3: Like? Who's the Democrats?

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Speaker 4: I don't know what the Democratic Party?

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Speaker 3: I don't know who there are?

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Speaker 1: Time?

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Speaker 5: Democrats have time right now, Democrats have two years to

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get this together.

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Speaker 4: Ye are they?

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Speaker 5: That's that's what they're gonna figure out right now. And

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they're gonna have a big, big, crowded primary season as

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soon as the midterms are over. Democrats have four years

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to figure out who they are, and that process is

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already underway. Let me just remind everyone. Vice President Harris

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was in that race for one hundred days against the

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most famous man of the world, and she got the

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third highest amount of votes anybody's ever gotten in the history.

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Kamala Harris got more votes than Ronald Reagan did both times,

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than Bill Clinton than Barack Obama did both times. The

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majority of Americans have shown up to vote against Trump

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in twenty sixteen, twenty twenty, and twenty twenty four. There

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is no mandate, There is no incredible bulwark of support

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that can't be knocked down for this guy because the

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majority of US three elections in a row have said

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no to his agenda. He hasn't got the mojo going.

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He's got the power, but he can't go long term

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with this and it's going to collapse on him like

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it did last time.

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Speaker 6: But you know what, Democrats are not understanding that they're

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in an asymmetrical warfare environment and Democrats are taking, in

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my opinion, the wrong lessons from twenty twenty four, and

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there have been many, many post mortems. They're conflating policy

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with rhetoric. They don't understand. Actually, if MAGA shows you anything,

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marginal voters who flipped this time, Actually, there are a

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lot of progressive policies, a lot of policies that used

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to be Democratic partied bread and butter that a lot

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of people might really really like. I mean, I'm an

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ex Republican. My politics are pretty centrist. I don't think

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that my politics are where most Americans politics are at all.

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I think that most Americans want to tap into something

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much more populist. I'm not a populist, but there's a

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form of populism that could be healthy. They want to

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tap into some much more progressive and instead you've got

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Democrats falling over themselves, like how do we win back

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David Sachs and are you kidding me? Oh my god,

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do you know what went wrong? Kamala Harris came out

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in favor of rent control, and that's scared the titans

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of industry, who are what anyone who's telling you that

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that's why they didn't vote for her, They weren't voting

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for her anyway.

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Speaker 5: Rights on the issues, though, I'll stop with this on

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the issues. Look at the issues that people care about,

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and they go with the progressive issue. They paid family,

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that's billionaires more. Medicaid should cover bi hearing in dental

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I'm sorry under medicare. I mean issue after women's reproductive freedoms,

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issue after issue. The people are already there. The Democrats

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are walking around like Clark Kent without a phone booth.

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Speaker 3: And to your point, John, if if republicans rank and file,

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republicans were more honest about that, they they would show

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through their words and their actions that they align with

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the very things that you're talking about. Because they don't

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want their grandmama's Medicaid to stop, they don't want their

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their cousin's SNAP program to end. They don't want that

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person who who's you know, helping them around the house

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to be deported. They don't. But what they what they.

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Speaker 5: Offer Democrats, sorry, go ahead, I'm gonna say.

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Speaker 3: But what they're offering up, you know, to to Lucy's point,

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is this sort of fake populism that somehow they think,

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going back to your Berlin example, that that world is

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going to be very different until it gets burned down

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and then they realize, oh but at that point, it's

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too late for you because Grandma's Medicaid has been canceled

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and she gone now because she had no health care,

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you know that program. And your kid is trying to

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find out what they're going to eat for three square meals,

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and the person who was helping you saw them carted

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off by ice. So those realities are going to come home.

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Speaker 1: But I want to try to answer Karen's point about

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like who are the Democrats, because I actually I think

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that's that's an incredibly important question, as you know, if

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we're ever going to have an opposition party. And I

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think that while we can debate should we be more left,

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should be being more centrist? What policy agenda do we want?

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I feel like what gets missed in those debates is

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that the consultant class of the Democratic Party needs to

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be like burnt out of the ground right, like needs

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to be like ripped up root and stem. These people

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are idiots. They've paid no price for frankly fucking up

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three elections in a row, as as John saying there

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is no way Trump should have one any of these elections.

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And while it's fashionable to blame the women candidates, Hillary

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didn't win a good campaign. CAMA didn't run a good game,

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like who was advising them at point after point after

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point And even if you look in our current primary process,

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like who the fuck is advising Wes Moore and told

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them to veto the reparations bill because that was an

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idiot move. That was a Democrat consultant idiot move. And

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so there's some level at which whoever the Democrats are

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as a party, the people who are paid money to

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tell Democrats what to do need to be stopped in

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some like aggressive way.

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Speaker 5: Pen effigies, effigies of Mark Penn hung from buildings.

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Speaker 6: Oh my god, if the Demo, oh my god, Mark Penn,

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don't even get me started.

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Speaker 5: On That's what I was talking about.

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Speaker 1: I like it.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, democratic operatives, I will say this, I've worked on

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both sides of the aisle. Now I spend all my

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time trying to burn the Republican Party to the ground

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and trying to get Democratic operatives to listen to me.

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Republicans not top down. Actually they are like let all

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flowers bloom, like, let's see what works. Throw that againy,

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we'll speak whatsticks. Democrats are like anxiety cats. I mean,

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I mean, just not to bore people with campaign tactics.

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But like in the last election, they weren't even doing

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voter contact by like a week to go because they

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were still doing persuasion and they were like, let's centralize

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all of our ads and we're just we're going to

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test so much. Like I love political data, I love polling,

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I love tactics. Like you know what ad is not

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going to persuade anyone of anything, The ads you don't cut,

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the ad that dies on the cutting room floor, the

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ad that people never see. A couple of weeks ago,

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I was at a thing in DC. It was a

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meeting of It was a group that does a lot

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of work with black and brown voters. There were people

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who were social influencers who have multi hundred person followings

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one hundred thousand, pardon me, multi hundred, multi hundred thousand

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or million person followings, talking about how at the DNC

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they were being given. I mean, these are people who

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are like collecting information and some of them, by the way,

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became social influencers because they were field organizers, like they

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were like Black Lives Matter activists who got a big

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following in the summer of twenty twenty who now have

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a profession as a social influencer, and they were talking

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about getting talking points from the DNC instead of the

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DNC saying to them, like, what are you hearing? Right,

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Like what's resonating with your people? It is so reversed

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and crazy. On the other hand, Republicans, I mean not

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to make people feel really all the ick, but I've

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been trying to remind people of what Republicans do and

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what Andrew Breitbart used to say to Republicans, politics is

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downstream of culture, right, And Democrats think that they can

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have culture be downstream of politics and be prescriptive. And

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when you have a bunch of the sort of like

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a sella corridor dem operatives whose entire experience with anything

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in the field is that they went to Pennsylvania for

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a weekend last fall to door knock making the playbook,

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you're going to consistently get a really bad product. And that,

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I mean, I couldn't agree with you more, Ellie. In short,

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I hope that comes across. They're a disaster.

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Speaker 3: It's a disaster in some respects. It kind of reminds

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me and I've had this conversation with a number a

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number of times with folks over the years. I remember

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when I came into the in two thousand and nine,

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we had just been selected in the eight elections, and

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we had gotten our ass kicked in the six elections.

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I know that well. I was on the ballot for

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the US Senate, and the reality was as I walked

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into the building, I was hemorrhaging donors, I was hemorrhaging

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grassroots support, that the base was pissed as hell. There

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was statewide disorganization. I found out out of fifty states,

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only roughly twelve had websites that communicated with the American people.

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And so there was this this feeling in the party

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that it was over lights out. We we are being rejected.

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We've been rejected by the American people. So for me,

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it was a matter of tapping into that thing that

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that would reawaken the imagination of the American people relative

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to the party and the party relative to the American people.

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I ran into a lot of resistance, a lot more

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than has been recounted publicly about from the very people

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that you guys are talking about, that that the culture

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class right, the folks who believe that the country is

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a far right country and it's not the political class

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that is, that's living in a limbo land where they think,

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to Lucy's point, that because they showed up for field

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trip in Iowa, that somehow they've got political chops. The

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certainly the K Street class, those folks who write the

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checks and you know, try to persuade through their money,

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were knocking on my door telling me I had to

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pay for races. I didn't, they didn't need they lost.

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Why am I paying paying for Well, it's a bonus.

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I don't pay bonuses for losing races, right, So those

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realities hit hard. So the problem the Democrats are having

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are similar to the ones after the six eight elections

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for Republicans, and that is finding that orientation. How do

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you reimagine the conversation with the American people?

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Speaker 5: May I on this, yes, because I'm upset. I'm not

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a Democrat and I never have been. I do think

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that mister Schumer is going to tastefully transition out of

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leadership after the mid terms either way. And again, they've

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got they've got three and a half years, Michael, to

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begin this rebranding. They they do have time. I think

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they noticed some degree what a mess it is. But

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to Ellie's point, I don't know if the if the UH,

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this class of consultants in their private jets, which eat

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up donations and spit out bad advice, can ever be

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saved in this party. But what I think they have

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to do is start telling the truth and calling out

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bluffs on immigration. I think they need to come out

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and say that any Republican, any politician of any party

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who talks about illegals but doesn't want to go after

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the white people doing all the hiring, they're the problem

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and they're the reason they're here. There's a gigantic help

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wanted sign in our southern border, and white people put

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it up, and there's no wall you can build that's

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big enough to hide that giant help wanted sign, and

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no Republicans are interested in taking down the help wanted signed.

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By the way, friends and neighbors, have you noticed Donald

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Trump won't go after the agricultural workers. He's already said

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those illegals who pick your food, right, well, they are

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a protected class because it's all about money. Now, Democrats

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can come out and say we're all part of the

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same hypocrisy. But if you like not paying seventy five

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dollars for a salad, you can thank an illegal alien,

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and so the smart Democrats can come out and risk

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a lot of donor money, but say, we're all part

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of this hypocrisy. I am submitting a law that makes

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it a federal crime to hire any undocumented immigrants. That

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would put Donald Trump behind bars because he's the only

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president in history to hire illegal aliens because he didn't

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feel like paying a living wage to American workers. And

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Trump did it in two different centuries. Why the Democrats

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are terrified to call this out is a microcosm of

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the cowardice. But I also think and again Democrats who promise, hey,

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law and order comes back. The Democrats who show up

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in this campaign season and say the Constitution is back

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in play. In January of twenty twenty seven, we are

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having hearings in every member of this cabinet can make

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all the money and insiders trading they want now, but

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your hands go on bibles in January of twenty twenty seven.

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Those are the guys and women who are going to

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get the votes, and they're the ones who are going

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to get the donations. People don't want to watch Gavin

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Newsom give a pedicure to Charlie Kirk. They want to

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know who's going to fight about this. And finally, I

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want to see Democrats come out and have the guts

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to say that Republicans aren't a party from men, not

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real men, and Democrats who say that recognize being a

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real man is not about how many people you can dominate.

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Being a real man is about how many people you

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can help. And it's not a hard message for Democrats

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to link the Gospels, the Constitution, and their agenda in

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one sentence. I want to see them do it and

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start bringing back men and let Republicans keep the boys, guys, homies,

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and dudes