Speaker 1: On the evening of May third, two thousand and seven,
Speaker 1: the sleepy resort town of Preya Dalous in Portugal was
Speaker 1: thrown into chaos. A three year old girl had vanished
Speaker 1: from her family's holiday apartment while her parents dined at
Speaker 1: a nearby restaurant. The little girl was Madeline McCann, and
Speaker 1: what followed was an unprecedented international search effort that capitalized
Speaker 1: the world and turned the McCanns into household names.
Speaker 2: I'm Nicole, I'm Ben, and this is Wicked and Grim, a.
Speaker 1: True crime podcast.
Speaker 2: Good Morning. The following podcast cemetery mature audience.
Speaker 1: Listener dis question is that the double you wouldn't even
Speaker 1: tell who was who?
Speaker 2: You wouldn't. You did a good job. You nailed that way.
Speaker 1: I've been practicing.
Speaker 2: I mean, that's not something to flex on. Usually that
Speaker 2: generally just means you're an alcoholic.
Speaker 1: I'm just kidding. I haven't.
Speaker 2: Yes, you have been, don't lie.
Speaker 1: I guess Okay, cheers, cheers. This is the last time
Speaker 1: we're going to talk about Ben being done, because Ben's done.
Speaker 2: I'm done. It's it. I quit my nine to five
Speaker 2: with the help of all you amazing, awesome people out there.
Speaker 2: I am pursuing owning my own company and Wicked and
Speaker 2: Graham and podcasting is a piece of that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, what did we What did we keep saying
Speaker 1: to each other? Because I think it was from a
Speaker 1: we can't remember what movie it was, but it's basically
Speaker 1: in there. I think they're on a date and got
Speaker 1: one person's like, I'm an entrepreneur, and then the chick's like,
Speaker 1: so you're unemployed? Yeah, or you're not unemployed?
Speaker 2: Yeah, she's She's like, so you're unemployed and he's like, no,
Speaker 2: I'm an entrepreneur and she's like, so you're unemployed. I
Speaker 2: can't remember what that's from, but yeah, I feel like.
Speaker 1: Justin Timberlake is in that scene. I'm pretty sure unless
Speaker 1: I really am making shure.
Speaker 2: Oh shit, that that was the Facebook movie. What's it
Speaker 2: fucking called?
Speaker 1: I can't remember. We actually just watched it recently.
Speaker 2: We did you guys know what movie we're talking about?
Speaker 2: Justin Timberlake And oh, I forget his name too, he
Speaker 2: plays the Facebook dude names right now. Anyways, it's the
Speaker 2: one about Facebook and how it all got started and everything.
Speaker 1: Ben is like really really tired, So it's probably good
Speaker 1: that I'm presenting this case today.
Speaker 2: Probably my sleep schedules are all over the place. It
Speaker 2: hasn't been normal last few days. I'm exhausted.
Speaker 1: But you hit this for the first time in months. Yes,
Speaker 1: am I allowed to make fun.
Speaker 2: Of you of that, go for it. I'm super sore,
Speaker 2: so yeah.
Speaker 1: But you're back at it. That's all that matters.
Speaker 2: Yes, and yeah, it's it's exciting. What's going to be
Speaker 2: coming down the pipe? This week marks the official start
Speaker 2: of it all sure, done, done done, because it's probably
Speaker 2: needing that dramatic effect music.
Speaker 1: This alcoholic beverage that I'm drinking currently is fucking amazing.
Speaker 1: It's actually distracting me every time I take a sip.
Speaker 2: The way you held your can up and said this
Speaker 2: alcoholic beverage, it just pictured me seeing you in a
Speaker 2: stand being like, I love this alcoholic beverage. Go generic
Speaker 2: sports team like you know, it's just like so non descript, Oh.
Speaker 1: My gosh, with no it's a vodka soda verb. I
Speaker 1: think it's called I've never had this wild strawberry.
Speaker 2: Lemon fantastic, Like holy shit, huh, So you're gonna be
Speaker 2: buying those more often, that's what you're saying.
Speaker 1: I think so, and I'm kind of disappointed now that
Speaker 1: I'm presenting, because I don't know if I'll be able
Speaker 1: to drink this whole thing while it's cold.
Speaker 2: She got to get you a straw so you can
Speaker 2: just like have it sit in your mouth as you're
Speaker 2: reading and slowly sip away. Could you imagine just an
Speaker 2: ivy maybe just hook it into your veins?
Speaker 1: Yeah, there you go.
Speaker 2: Yeah, should do it.
Speaker 1: So we have some patrons to think we do again.
Speaker 1: We have quite a few this week, thank you, We
Speaker 1: do freaking much.
Speaker 2: And they're going to be subject to some awesome stuff
Speaker 2: coming out on Patreon. Well starting the day you're listening
Speaker 2: to this podcast, because it's about to get revamped reworked
Speaker 2: with me going full time.
Speaker 1: So we actually already have something new we're putting out today.
Speaker 2: We do, which is kind of cool. Yeah, you gotta
Speaker 2: have to go check it out though if you want
Speaker 2: to know what it.
Speaker 1: Is, well, we'll talk about it a bit at the
Speaker 1: end too.
Speaker 2: Oh we will, Okay, Okay, we'll do that then. For now, though,
Speaker 2: we got to thank the people that signed up this
Speaker 2: past week. So we have James Bamsey, Crystal Harvey, Courtney Garner,
Speaker 2: Jessica Maury Tricia Leech s Alexia, I'm gonna probably say
Speaker 2: her last name wrong, even though she gave us a
Speaker 2: description on how to say it right. Vlenzuelia, I know
Speaker 2: I said that wrong. The Lenuelia, the Lenzuela. I'm butchering this.
Speaker 2: I'm doing so bad. I'm sorry, Alexia. And then also,
Speaker 2: Lindy V.
Speaker 1: You gave it your best effort. That's all that.
Speaker 2: Anyways, hold on, my eyes are like tired and I
Speaker 2: can't even.
Speaker 1: See my lasses too. I just gotta throw that out there.
Speaker 2: I think I do. Alexia, the Lenzuelia. Okay, a Lenzuela,
Speaker 2: Alexia Belenzuela. There we go. I think I nailed it
Speaker 2: on the.
Speaker 1: Last one day. I think, well, you can let us know.
Speaker 2: I even try to get Google to help me out,
Speaker 2: and it was just actually it wasn't making a.
Speaker 1: Difference, much to everybody's disbelief. We do use Google.
Speaker 3: The only difference between us and the other pronounce or
Speaker 3: whatever you want to call it, Yeah, the whole like
Speaker 3: Texas Beech thing, the difference between us and other podcasts
Speaker 3: is we just don't it out and we just own it.
Speaker 1: And maybe we should sometimes or also I think a
Speaker 1: lot of podcasts I've been listening to, well, I don't
Speaker 1: actually listen to a shit podcast, but they then tell
Speaker 1: me make it and like I'll be listening and I'm like,
Speaker 1: that's freaking wrongs. But they pronounce it so well and
Speaker 1: they don't like overthink it that it's just like boom, yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they just pretend that they're saying it right.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Well, when it especially comes to patrons, I am not
Speaker 2: going to sit here and pretend I know how to
Speaker 2: say their name correctly, you know, so I will apologize,
Speaker 2: But that is butcher.
Speaker 1: That was a cool name, So there you go. I
Speaker 1: feel like if you have a hard pronounced name, maybe
Speaker 1: it's a cool name. Maybe maybe that's our names are
Speaker 1: not hard to pronounce.
Speaker 2: Ben and Nicole. That's about as standard and white as
Speaker 2: you get.
Speaker 1: Heay. But the amount of times, okay, we're going to
Speaker 1: start here in one second. The amount of time though,
Speaker 1: I get asked, how do you spell your first and
Speaker 1: last name? Mostly the last, like people that actually don't
Speaker 1: know how to.
Speaker 2: Spell it well, because with Gibson there could be two bees.
Speaker 1: I guess, and like Nicole, sometimes they're gonna be an
Speaker 1: h yeah. But but sometimes they generally, I think, don't know.
Speaker 1: Do you ever get asked how to sell ben? Actually yes,
Speaker 1: but they're thinking it's Benjamin Benjamin.
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, there's some stories about that that I'm not
Speaker 2: going to dive into. But yeah, some people can fuck off.
Speaker 2: I know my own name, tell me that. That's just
Speaker 2: as far as I'll go.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, sure, it's ben Yeah, yeah, Okay, So let's
Speaker 1: dive into this case here today we're talking about Madeline McCann.
Speaker 2: I just shivered before you said the name, not after.
Speaker 1: Okay, this case, this case, actually, I mean a lot
Speaker 1: of case are very interesting, with this one I find
Speaker 1: very interesting and just like I don't know, this one
Speaker 1: heart strings. Yeah. So Madeline McCann is a name we've
Speaker 1: heard a lot about, right, especially recently with the recent controversy,
Speaker 1: But we'll get around to that closer to the end.
Speaker 1: There's been a lot of coverage on this case and
Speaker 1: a lot of opinions, but we're going to try our
Speaker 1: very best to stick to the facts. So Madeline Beth
Speaker 1: McCann was born on May twelfth, two thousand and three,
Speaker 1: in Leicester, England, her parents Gerald or Jerry. I'm going
Speaker 1: to refer to him as Jerry Enough and Kate McCann
Speaker 1: were both doctors, and shortly after they had Madeline, they
Speaker 1: had a set of twins as well. In May two
Speaker 1: thousand and seven, Jerry and Kate were going on a
Speaker 1: holiday to Portugal with their three children, but they weren't
Speaker 1: just going as a family. They were actually going with
Speaker 1: nine adults and eight children. Like, that's a gang and
Speaker 1: a half.
Speaker 2: It's a whole gaggle of people.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so they're all going to Praya Dalouz to spend
Speaker 1: some time together. The adults all knew each other in
Speaker 1: some way, with a lot of them being doctors like
Speaker 1: the McCanns. They would later be dubbed to the media
Speaker 1: as the Tapis seven because they dined together in the
Speaker 1: resorts Tapis restaurant most evenings, being that all were vacation
Speaker 1: in the same apartment complex. This meant that the adults
Speaker 1: could all pitch in to help look after each other's children,
Speaker 1: and they can make use of the hotel's daycare center
Speaker 1: and nightcare as well.
Speaker 2: Oh that's handy.
Speaker 1: That is handy, isn't it.
Speaker 2: I do have to say though, being known as like
Speaker 2: the Tapis seven, that's interesting. Like, I'm sure there was
Speaker 2: a phase in my life where if I got murdered
Speaker 2: or something and they come to my house, I'd be
Speaker 2: known as like the Domino's box guy because of the
Speaker 2: stack of Domino's pizzas, like in the garage and stuff.
Speaker 1: Now we saw a good Yeah, there was when we
Speaker 1: lived on at the other house because you could get delivery.
Speaker 1: We can't get delivery where we are now.
Speaker 2: And when we collected the little tabs off the boxes,
Speaker 2: you got like free pizza. So often you were.
Speaker 1: Pissed when they took that away. It was because of COVID.
Speaker 1: COVID ruined a lot of things. Yeah, So the McCanns
Speaker 1: had apartment five A, which was one of the two
Speaker 1: grand floor apartments in that particular building, and another of
Speaker 1: the families from their group had the other. But the
Speaker 1: McCann's apartment was a little bit different. Therefore, the their
Speaker 1: front door opened up onto the street outside the hotel complex,
Speaker 1: and their balcony could be accessed by climbing up some steps.
Speaker 1: The patio door around the back of the apartment opened
Speaker 1: up onto the hotel's pooled, the tennis courts and the
Speaker 1: restaurant in the bar. So they were like, you know,
Speaker 1: I feel like almost the place you could just get
Speaker 1: everywhere from, no kidding.
Speaker 2: It was a very centralized location by the sound of it. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and I mean you have like I mean, it's good
Speaker 2: to have access and egress on your balcony for fire
Speaker 2: hazards situations. Oh safety over there, not anymore, just saying,
Speaker 2: but I mean that that is always a plus. However,
Speaker 2: you got to make sure you are locking that.
Speaker 1: As yeah, yeah, yeah, I do. So this was the
Speaker 1: only way into the apartment that could be seen from
Speaker 1: the inside of the hotel complex. Okay, the patio door. Sorry,
Speaker 1: we kind of chatted in between there, so that piece
Speaker 1: of information is important that you could see that the
Speaker 1: paddy door faced kind of the resort.
Speaker 2: Okay, and then from the resort you could see into
Speaker 2: their apartment through the patio doors.
Speaker 1: Well kind of. The adults kind of claimed that, I think,
Speaker 1: so okay. Because the adults of the group put the
Speaker 1: children to bed around seven pm every night, they then
Speaker 1: would go to the Tapis restaurant at eight thirty. They
Speaker 1: specifically asked for a certain table every night so that
Speaker 1: they could see the apartments from the restaurant, but the
Speaker 1: children were left alone when the adults went for dinner.
Speaker 2: Okay, how old were the kids? Sorry? Do we get there?
Speaker 2: You that here? Sorry, I am I getting ahead of
Speaker 2: my They're.
Speaker 1: Pretty young actually, well because Madeline is three, like almost four. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and the boys, the twins are younger.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that's that's that's pretty sketchy to be leaving alone,
Speaker 2: even if you could just see the windows of your
Speaker 2: apart apartment. That's kind of not.
Speaker 1: Okay, so we're touching on the first controversial point in
Speaker 1: the case. The restaurant that the group ate at every
Speaker 1: night was about fifty five meters away from the apartments,
Speaker 1: but only if you could walk in a single straight line.
Speaker 1: To actually get to the restaurant from five A, you
Speaker 1: had to go out onto the main street and go
Speaker 1: down the street, meaning that you had to walk close
Speaker 1: to one hundred meters to get there. And the group
Speaker 1: could actually only see the top of the apartment buildings,
Speaker 1: not the patio door, and definitely not the front door
Speaker 1: from where they were sitting. But they had their own
Speaker 1: way of making sure the children were all right. This
Speaker 1: is what their way was. Okay, About every half an hour,
Speaker 1: one of the parents from each family would go and
Speaker 1: check on the children.
Speaker 2: Okay, all right.
Speaker 1: So every half an hour they one of the sets
Speaker 1: of parents would leave the restaurant and go check on
Speaker 1: their kids.
Speaker 2: Okay, I mean that's not perfect, but that's not bad.
Speaker 2: I'm going to make the devil's advocate argument here of say,
Speaker 2: the kids having an afternoon nap and parents who are
Speaker 2: like I would never leave my kid at home alone. Sure,
Speaker 2: you're right, but your kids having an afternoon nap, you
Speaker 2: might be out in the backyard gardening, might not be
Speaker 2: in the house to hear pop in the house every
Speaker 2: half an hour or so. I don't see a whole
Speaker 2: lot of a difference, really. I mean, there is a
Speaker 2: little bit of a difference, but not.
Speaker 1: A it's a little bit more of a journey.
Speaker 2: It is, but there because what I see is if
Speaker 2: they're sitting in a restaurant, they can't They might be
Speaker 2: able to see the windows of flights go on or
Speaker 2: something like that. Typically you'd think, but if you're going
Speaker 2: into the building, that's when you'd hear crying, for example,
Speaker 2: you couldn't hear that from the restaurant.
Speaker 1: No, absolutely not.
Speaker 2: You probably wouldn't be able to hear crying. Say, if
Speaker 2: you're in the backyard gardening or something like that too.
Speaker 2: I mean, chances are you might, but not always. There's
Speaker 2: situations where it might be similar to you might as
Speaker 2: well be across the street in a restaurant.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So I'm not saying that what they're doing is good,
Speaker 2: but I'm saying that at least they have a solid
Speaker 2: plan on how to take care of it and make
Speaker 2: it a better situation.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're making somewhat an effort, Yes, but I think
Speaker 1: I don't know nowadays, I'm just thinking that you couldn't
Speaker 1: do that. No, no, right, I mean, but this isn't
Speaker 1: that long ago. This was in like two thousand and seven.
Speaker 2: No, well, I'm not saying they should do that. I'm saying,
Speaker 2: one hundred percent they should not be doing this. Yeah, however,
Speaker 2: it's not like they're that far off from what people
Speaker 2: do in a regular basis anyways. Yeah, is what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: I mean, what they could have just done is one night,
Speaker 1: maybe the guys go out for dinner and the next
Speaker 1: night the girls go out for dinner or something. Right,
Speaker 1: just switch it up exactly, Or they put all the
Speaker 1: kids in one room and like one person just has.
Speaker 2: To stay or bear with me here, this is a stretch.
Speaker 2: I know they get a babysitter.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, because the place did apparently have a care
Speaker 1: center exactly, so I don't know. Okay, So about every
Speaker 1: half an hour, one of the parents from each family
Speaker 1: would go check on the kids, So meaning that on
Speaker 1: May or two thousand and seven, the first check happened
Speaker 1: at about nine pm from the McCanns. Gary or Jerry,
Speaker 1: Where did Gary come from? Jerry went first, Good old Gary.
Speaker 1: They had decided, you're not gonna like this part here.
Speaker 1: They had decided to use the patio door to get
Speaker 1: to the restaurant that night. Aw that was because the
Speaker 1: children slept in the room closest to the front door,
Speaker 1: which the mccans kept locked, and they were afraid that
Speaker 1: going in and out that way would wake up the children.
Speaker 1: But that also meant that the patio door that opened
Speaker 1: up to the living room had to stay unlocked, because
Speaker 1: it only locked from the inside of the apartment.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you don't do that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that kind of just makes me shiver a little. No.
Speaker 2: Rule number one of any sort of horror movie always
Speaker 2: says that you lock your patio door when you are anywhere,
Speaker 2: Lock your doors, lock your doors, hid your kids hi'd
Speaker 2: your wife lock your doors? Right?
Speaker 1: So Jerry went into the apartment and went to the
Speaker 1: door to the children's bedroom. The twin twins were in
Speaker 1: travel cots in the middle of the room, and Madeline
Speaker 1: was in a bed close to the bedroom door and
Speaker 1: opposite the only window in the room. The window faced
Speaker 1: the main street, not the hotel complex, but the metal
Speaker 1: shutter was down and the only way to open it
Speaker 1: was from the inside. The children were asleep. Madeline was
Speaker 1: wrapped in bed with her comfort blanket, her toy called Cuddlecat,
Speaker 1: and was wearing a pair of white and pink pajamas.
Speaker 1: I hate the descriptions of that kind of shit. I
Speaker 1: almost not everyone to put them in.
Speaker 2: That's because I know why those ties there too. Yeah.
Speaker 1: The only thing that really stood out to Jerry that
Speaker 1: particular trip to check on the children was that he
Speaker 1: remembered mostly closing but not fully closing the door to
Speaker 1: the bedroom, and now it was actually completely open. He
Speaker 1: did this same thing again, though mostly closed the door
Speaker 1: to the bedroom, but nothing seemed out of the place.
Speaker 1: There was also a children's gate between the bedroom and
Speaker 1: the rest of the apartment and that was still closed,
Speaker 1: so Jerry let things be and went back to the restaurant.
Speaker 1: One of the adults of the group, a woman named
Speaker 1: Jane Tanner, had also gone up to check on her
Speaker 1: children at the same time. She remembers seeing how I
Speaker 1: want to see Gary every time. Now this is gonna
Speaker 1: fuck with me. Jerry, Jerry, Jerry, Jerry.
Speaker 2: She remembers, just don't say it in the mirror three times,
Speaker 2: otherwise they'll show up.
Speaker 1: She remembers seeing Jerry outside five eighth talking to another
Speaker 1: British person on holiday, but she also remembers seeing someone else.
Speaker 1: At around nine fifteen, Jane spotted a man carrying a
Speaker 1: young child and heading east away from the building. The
Speaker 1: man looked to be in his mid thirties to early forties,
Speaker 1: with dark hair and dark eyes. Jane said that he
Speaker 1: looked like he was either Southern European or Mediterranean. Only
Speaker 1: about an hour later, this sighting would become hugely important
Speaker 1: because the child he'd been caring had been wearing similar
Speaker 1: pajamas as Madeline. Around nine thirty, when it came time
Speaker 1: to do the next rounds of checks, it was Kate's turn.
Speaker 1: She got up, but the father from the family next
Speaker 1: door in five b Matthew Oldfield offered to check in
Speaker 1: on the McCann's children while he was checking in on
Speaker 1: his own. Kate sat down and Matthew went to the
Speaker 1: park to the apartment instead. He first checked on his
Speaker 1: own children and then went into five A. There he
Speaker 1: found the door to the children's bedroom again wide open,
Speaker 1: but he didn't go in. He had a quick look
Speaker 1: into the room, but he couldn't hear anything. It sounded
Speaker 1: like the children were still fast asleep, so he turned
Speaker 1: around and left. That put the next check at ten pm,
Speaker 1: and this time Kate did go herself to check on them.
Speaker 1: Kate left the restaurant and entered the apartment through the
Speaker 1: unlocked patio door. The first thing she noticed was at
Speaker 1: the door to the children's room was wide open, and
Speaker 1: when she went to close it, the door actually slammed
Speaker 1: in her face. She opened it again, realizing that it
Speaker 1: actually closed because of a draft. The shutter on the
Speaker 1: window inside the room was up and the window was open,
Speaker 1: and Madeline was not in her bed.
Speaker 2: That is a moment where any parent their heart would
Speaker 2: absolutely sink. Oh my gosh, yeah, holy shit, what I
Speaker 2: just I mean, I'm pretty sure that it's not the case,
Speaker 2: but I'm going to just talk about this anyways, the
Speaker 2: sighting of the individual carrying the child away in the
Speaker 2: similar pajamas. What if it was literally just some dude
Speaker 2: and his kid was just also wearing these like pink pajamas.
Speaker 2: He's carrying his kid somewhere.
Speaker 1: It was it was I'm going to say that later, but.
Speaker 2: I was, oh, really, yeah, okay, yeah, it.
Speaker 1: Was literally someone picking up their kid from that care
Speaker 1: center and going back.
Speaker 2: Hashtag called it so.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I had a feeling we were going to get onto this,
Speaker 2: and it was like, no, it was actually the dude.
Speaker 2: That's where I thought you were going to be going.
Speaker 2: But I was like, what if it's just some fucking
Speaker 2: dude and.
Speaker 1: His some random Yeah, some random dude also on holiday
Speaker 1: picking up his child and going home.
Speaker 2: I mean, how many little girls have like pink and
Speaker 2: white pajamas?
Speaker 1: A lot? I would assume.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I would assume any father carrying his kid
Speaker 2: to and from a daycare or to the apartment or whatever,
Speaker 2: their kid falls asleep on the road trip or in
Speaker 2: his arms or whatever, it's just because it was late.
Speaker 1: I have pink and white pajamas, for God's sakes.
Speaker 2: Yeah you do.
Speaker 1: So there you go.
Speaker 2: So it was just a dad carrying their kid. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but that's not to say that, uh, Madeline's still not missing.
Speaker 1: So both of the twins were still fast asleep, that
Speaker 1: Madeline wasn't anywhere in the apartment, and Kate went straight
Speaker 1: into panic mode. She briefly searched the apartment and then
Speaker 1: ran back towards the restaurant, screaming, Madeline's gone. Someone has
Speaker 1: taken her. Both the group that the mccans were traveling
Speaker 1: or both. Oh yeah, I did say that, right, the
Speaker 1: group that the mccans were traveling with and the hotel
Speaker 1: staff sprang into action.
Speaker 2: The hotel staff too, Hey.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, they had like a protocol thing.
Speaker 2: Oh that's good. That's awesome, it's really good. Procedures are important.
Speaker 1: Oh wow.
Speaker 2: See coming from the safety professional background, procedures they are.
Speaker 2: They are very important. Yeah, they are.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm assuming that kids have gone missing from
Speaker 1: the resort before, potentially not to this degree, but like
Speaker 1: they wandered off while they're like oh fool or something. Right.
Speaker 2: Well, and that's why minimizing the risk, assessing the hazardous
Speaker 2: situations where it can happen, and making sure you have
Speaker 2: a procedure in place in the event of you can
Speaker 2: follow it exactly, not to mention that you're also going
Speaker 2: to do an investigation afterwards to ensure that you can
Speaker 2: follow up on any risks and hazards and minimize them
Speaker 2: even further.
Speaker 1: So that would be probably making sure your patio door
Speaker 1: is locked and have not have your children alone.
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, procedure for your house. Lock your doors, hide
Speaker 2: your kids, hide your wife. There you go, We started
Speaker 2: your procedure for you out post it.
Speaker 1: We're just saying facts here. We're trying not to judge
Speaker 1: or not judging because like, no one ever in scenarios
Speaker 1: like you're on vacation, you're like with your friends, you're
Speaker 1: enjoying yourself. You're never going to be like especially in
Speaker 1: that situation when you're relaxed, thinking of probably about worst
Speaker 1: case scenarios. Right, So oh yeah, no, I'm I never
Speaker 1: wanted this to happen.
Speaker 2: No, No, I'm being a little bit facetious here and
Speaker 2: just kind of going over the top. No one's ever
Speaker 2: going to be perfect. We don't expect everyone to lock
Speaker 2: everything in their house every single day. Half the time,
Speaker 2: our front door isn't locked.
Speaker 1: Yeah, just say waited to stare that with everyone.
Speaker 2: Okay, now we're going to be locking it.
Speaker 1: Okay. So by ten ten the police have been called,
Speaker 1: and by ten thirty the hotel initiated it's Missing Children's protocol,
Speaker 1: putting every available staff member on searches throughout the entire
Speaker 1: hotel complex. And they continued searching until four thirty in
Speaker 1: the morning. And I think a lot of actual hotel
Speaker 1: guests also kind of joined the search, which is good, nice,
Speaker 1: good for them. So the first two officers arrived at
Speaker 1: eleven ten, they did a brief search and called for
Speaker 1: backup at midnight, with those people arriving at one in
Speaker 1: the morning. The first person they tried to track down
Speaker 1: was that man that Jane Tanner had seen around nine fifteen,
Speaker 1: especially because Matthew Oldfield couldn't remember if he'd specifically seen
Speaker 1: Madeline when he checked in on the children around nine
Speaker 1: to thirty, which is shitty.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I can't blame them, no, because like half
Speaker 2: the time when people are checking on other kids will
Speaker 2: just like listen in to the door.
Speaker 1: Because then you know, whe will accidentally wake.
Speaker 2: Them exactly, So I can't blame them for that whatsoever.
Speaker 1: Yeah, But I mean it kind of sucks that they
Speaker 1: didn't exactly know when the kids, Yeah, when Madeline.
Speaker 2: And let gone r The time frame is much more
Speaker 2: than they could have been.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So, but the man the police were searching for
Speaker 1: was one of many people witnesses saw around the apartment building.
Speaker 1: Some witnesses were called seeing an ugly blonde man in
Speaker 1: and around the hotel and days leading up to that night. Wow,
Speaker 1: that's description, shitty description to have for yourself.
Speaker 2: Watch it's just some other dude just staying there on vacation.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, there's this ugly blonde man that's been hanging
Speaker 2: around and he's just like around the corner listening to
Speaker 2: this Oh oh, sad ugly blonde man. Feel for him.
Speaker 1: Several witnesses remember seeing a group of suspicious looking men
Speaker 1: pretending to actually be charity workers. Another couple reported seeing
Speaker 1: a man carrying a child wearing light colored pajamas. And
Speaker 1: I'm not certain if this is the same man. This
Speaker 1: is a different couple reporting it, so it could be
Speaker 1: a different individual. This one was approximately five hundred yards
Speaker 1: from the mccannsip apartment and was heading towards the beach,
Speaker 1: and that was around ten that night, So I think
Speaker 1: it's a different man. But and who knows this could
Speaker 1: be the man that had Madeline.
Speaker 2: Five hundred yard that's a long ways, yeah.
Speaker 1: Because that the Jane person saw the kid at nine
Speaker 1: point fifteen, and that one was deemed to be a
Speaker 1: like also holiday person, Okay, and so I'm assuming that
Speaker 1: person probably wasn't five hundred yards away, So I'm thinking
Speaker 1: this is a different, different spotting. So some of these
Speaker 1: men were tracked down. Some of them were actually already
Speaker 1: on police's radar because the area was experienced a peak
Speaker 1: of burglaries at the time. The block the McCanns were
Speaker 1: staying on had two break ins in the seventeen days
Speaker 1: before Madeleine's disappearance, but no one could find the man
Speaker 1: that Jane Tanner claimed to have seen at nine point fifteen,
Speaker 1: And there were more than a few reasons for it.
Speaker 1: In those I've already spilled the beans on that, and
Speaker 1: I'm just going to continue on the fucking fair enough.
Speaker 2: Just go with your script for now.
Speaker 1: So, in those very critical first hours of Madeline's disappearance,
Speaker 1: the police response was questionable, and I hate when we
Speaker 1: have to say that, but we're just giving facts here.
Speaker 1: So they arrived late, even though they were within close proximity.
Speaker 1: They didn't inform the Border or the Marine police right
Speaker 1: away of the situation or give them a description of
Speaker 1: Madeline's appearance.
Speaker 2: Are you kidding? Yeah, on a fucking missing child. Yeah,
Speaker 2: where chances are if they have been kidnapped, the person
Speaker 2: is literally fleeing running away with them. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So so those people who have been on alert for this, right.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that's the first thing you want to do
Speaker 2: is make sure you inform everyone in the area to
Speaker 2: be on the lookout.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they didn't do house to house searches in the
Speaker 1: area and they didn't set up roadblocks until ten the
Speaker 1: following morning, but that, unfortunately wasn't all they did wrong.
Speaker 2: What the fuck did they do?
Speaker 1: They also didn't interview everyone staying and working at the hotel,
Speaker 1: and to top it all off, the crime scene didn't
Speaker 1: get secured properly. Samples taken from the room came back
Speaker 1: with DNA belonging to an identified person, but by the
Speaker 1: time the samples had been sent to the lab, about
Speaker 1: twenty people had been in and out of the apartment.
Speaker 2: Holy shit.
Speaker 1: Yeah wow, So that's like a lot of things that
Speaker 1: could have messed up this investigation.
Speaker 2: No kidding. I mean unless you're able to identify and
Speaker 2: track exactly who's been in and out and why and everything,
Speaker 2: then you it would take a lot of time and resources,
Speaker 2: but you'd be able to weed them out then. But still,
Speaker 2: holy fuck, Okay.
Speaker 1: I know, because I don't think they were really been
Speaker 1: tracking that, Like they probably know which twenty were in there,
Speaker 1: like which hotel staff.
Speaker 2: Are in there, Like yeah, like it's Steve the bellhop
Speaker 2: who's been here for a week. He's up there for
Speaker 2: who knows what.
Speaker 1: Well, everyone's frantic and I'm sure all the hotel stuff
Speaker 1: was like frantic and trying to help and.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, you know, don't get me wrong, I'm just.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I'm not saying but it's just a shitty situation.
Speaker 2: Yeah, who knows who's gone and if they haven't secured
Speaker 2: it properly, like someone just wandering in there for weird
Speaker 2: odds and ends reasons that probably people don't even know
Speaker 2: what they're being they're actually in there.
Speaker 1: No, yeah, so they know.
Speaker 2: Probably about twenty people. There's probably twenty.
Speaker 1: Plus, Yeah, because lot of times you what's the word,
Speaker 1: But if you're like in the wrong, you Oh, I
Speaker 1: can't think of the word, but you lesser it, lesser
Speaker 1: the blow than it actually should be. Right, Oh, that's
Speaker 1: the word.
Speaker 2: Oh, I know what you're trying to say, but I
Speaker 2: don't know if I know the word you're thinking about all.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 2: You're trying to like say like oh, instead of being
Speaker 2: like I only did this.
Speaker 1: I only or I spent five hundred bucks, but then
Speaker 1: you actually spend a thousand.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so when you come home from a shopping spree,
Speaker 2: I didn't spend that much. She was only five hundred bucks.
Speaker 2: Look at the receipts. It was actually a thousand. Yeah,
Speaker 2: there you go. That's a good analogy.
Speaker 1: Moving on, Jerry and Kate tried to take matters into
Speaker 1: their own hands, and they tried to keep the momentum
Speaker 1: building on Madeleine's case. Jerry's plan was to use the
Speaker 1: media to keep the public aware of his daughter's disappearance
Speaker 1: so the tips and leads could keep on coming. But
Speaker 1: what happened was something rarely seen before. Jerry hired a
Speaker 1: team of pr consultants from Britain and had them come
Speaker 1: to Priya doll loose. Most said that wrong. The constant
Speaker 1: media attention worked in keeping the public talking about and
Speaker 1: searching for Madeline. That's good, but it created a lot
Speaker 1: of tension between the McCanns and the local police. The
Speaker 1: police argued that the constant media presence and the journalists
Speaker 1: in and around the area were getting in the way
Speaker 1: of the investigation. We're actually hurting Madeleine's case.
Speaker 2: I have a counter argument for that.
Speaker 1: What invest Oh you went there? Hey, you went there.
Speaker 1: The tension ended up rising so high that the British
Speaker 1: government ended up sending its own press officers to try
Speaker 1: to manage the situation. But the outporth support from the
Speaker 1: public was huge already. By May fifteenth, only twelve days
Speaker 1: after Madeline had gone missing, the mccans had created a
Speaker 1: fund named Madelin's Fund, Leaving No Stone unturned. The fund's
Speaker 1: website had over fifty eight million hits on the first
Speaker 1: two days it was live.
Speaker 2: Holy shit.
Speaker 1: And the fund created a place where people could go
Speaker 1: make donations and support the search. Wow, so that is
Speaker 1: pretty impressive, no kidding. The fund ended up paying for
Speaker 1: the McCanns to follow leads in other Portuguese cities, and
Speaker 1: even sent them to Halland Germany and Morocco. By May thirtieth,
Speaker 1: the McCanns were flown out to where they got to
Speaker 1: meet the pope. But this was was all of this
Speaker 1: getting them anywhere and finding Madeline.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was just wondering, Okay, what does that have
Speaker 2: to do with finding their kid?
Speaker 1: I'm not really sure. But they were religious, so maybe
Speaker 1: they were thinking, like by going and meeting them and
Speaker 1: like in some sort of religious ceremony of.
Speaker 2: Sorts like that could prayers and blessings or something. Yeah, okay, okay,
Speaker 2: fair enough.
Speaker 1: So I don't think I had said in there that
Speaker 1: they were like had religious beliefs. The police believed they
Speaker 1: found the answers and it was all thanks to Jane
Speaker 1: Tanner's sighting. About one hundred and thirty seven meters east
Speaker 1: from five A lived thirty four year old Robert Marat,
Speaker 1: and he was a man that police knew well. Robert
Speaker 1: was a British property consulted and when he heard about
Speaker 1: what had happened just down the street from him, he
Speaker 1: jumped at the opportunity to help. Robert translated for the police,
Speaker 1: doing everything he could to get them and the McCann's
Speaker 1: closer to finding their daughter. That was until he was
Speaker 1: named an official suspect in Madeleine's disappearance. All of this
Speaker 1: stemmed from him catching the description of the man Jane
Speaker 1: had seen heading east carrying a child that night, and
Speaker 1: because a journalist reported to the police that Robert had
Speaker 1: been asking about the investigation. So he basically kind of
Speaker 1: matched that description and he was asking questions. Yeah, so,
Speaker 1: and he was known for police I guess right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, fair enough. I mean it's reasonable suspicion at that point,
Speaker 2: so I can't argue that.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So his home was searched, he and two of
Speaker 1: his friends were interviewed, but the police found nothing. Robert
Speaker 1: said that he'd offered to help because he had a
Speaker 1: daughter in England around the same age as Madeline, but
Speaker 1: the police and the public were still not convinced he
Speaker 1: was publicly slandered.
Speaker 2: Oh fantastic.
Speaker 1: His friend's car was torched and spray painted on the
Speaker 1: pavement next to it read FLA I believe it's pronounced,
Speaker 1: which says speak like it means speak yes. So the
Speaker 1: next thing anyone knew, the friends the McCanns had been
Speaker 1: on holiday with remembered feeling suspicious of Robert, and witnesses
Speaker 1: replacing him at the scene too. Years later, police confirmed
Speaker 1: the identity of the man Jane had seen that night.
Speaker 1: He was another British holiday maker. I don't know is
Speaker 1: that the right word, British holidaymaker?
Speaker 2: That sounds like when of sand his little elves.
Speaker 1: I don't know, on holiday. I don't know why I
Speaker 1: have that in there.
Speaker 2: Okay, he was another British dude on holidays.
Speaker 1: Yeah, who was on his way to his apartment after
Speaker 1: picking up his daughter from the hotel's night care. So
Speaker 1: there you go, called it. Robert and his friends were
Speaker 1: vindicated and managed to sue for like compensation. Good They
Speaker 1: collected hundreds of thousands of pounds, but only after and
Speaker 1: during years of abuse and suspicions from both the locals
Speaker 1: and the general public. But if Robert hadn't take hadn't
Speaker 1: taken Madeline, then what had happened to her? We're no
Speaker 1: closer again, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. But I do want to just say, like
Speaker 2: the police being like, oh, you're interfering with our investigation,
Speaker 2: and their investigation leads to just slandering someone who's completely innocent.
Speaker 1: Well it's really shitty because that guy that he had,
Speaker 1: from what we know, he had the peers of intentions
Speaker 1: of just helping.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: And sometimes, I mean, this is so bad, but just
Speaker 1: like the world we live in, sometimes you almost don't
Speaker 1: want to help.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because then you're implicated, you're part of it, and
Speaker 2: you can get hurt or whatever to perform and you're
Speaker 2: in the limelight or line of fire.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because he had that for years. Right, Yeah, this
Speaker 1: is like his name just being shit.
Speaker 2: Oh, I'm sure, and I'm sure his reputation even after
Speaker 2: the fact, was still tarnished quite a bit. Yeah, because
Speaker 2: people don't generally turn around and bring the sunshine your
Speaker 2: way when you're proved innocent. Right, it seems to be like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 2: I know, he was like an outcast for a long time.
Speaker 2: We're just going to still continue to avoid him, especially
Speaker 2: because we feel bad because we were the one are
Speaker 2: part of the whole like slandering group of people. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you know, so he's just still an outcast, still name tarnished,
Speaker 2: and trying to live a normal life.
Speaker 1: From what I read, a lot of the reports did
Speaker 1: say he kind of from numerous means, got a lot
Speaker 1: of money because like articles from different new sources and stuff, right,
Speaker 1: Like he was able to kind of get some compensation
Speaker 1: from that. So hopefully he at least ended up with
Speaker 1: a chunk of change. I guess.
Speaker 2: I just hope that he monetary value or whatever aside.
Speaker 2: I just hope he has a normal life. Yeah, I
Speaker 2: hope this did not affect him negatively mentally and all
Speaker 2: that sort of stuff. I hope that just today he's
Speaker 2: just doing good. That's what I hope.
Speaker 1: Oh man, oh man, Okay, where are we here? So
Speaker 1: by then the police opinion of the McCanns had actually shifted,
Speaker 1: and they asked for British sniffer dogs to come be
Speaker 1: brought to the apartment to search. Sniffer dogs. That sounds funny, Hey,
Speaker 1: I think that's what they're called. The one dog was
Speaker 1: trained to give a reaction to the smell of human
Speaker 1: blood and the other to the scent of a human cadaver,
Speaker 1: and they came back with the results that blew this
Speaker 1: case wide open. It's interesting. I can't remember which dog
Speaker 1: was witch, but one of them, oh man, I don't
Speaker 1: know which one, but one of them, when they got
Speaker 1: what they were supposed to be like like, barked and
Speaker 1: they only barked kind of when they.
Speaker 2: Yeah, give their sign or whatever. But I don't know
Speaker 2: the cadaver one I'm sure. I mean, there's there's a
Speaker 2: distinct smell of death, but blood. I mean, what if
Speaker 2: someone was just like cutting an ingrown toenail and like
Speaker 2: drop of blood goes beside the bed or something.
Speaker 1: You lose a lot of blood from that.
Speaker 2: Cut your finger in the kitchen or stub your toe
Speaker 2: out in the bathroom hall or like.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the cadaver would kind of maybe show a bit more.
Speaker 2: I guess, yeah, that one I could see. But I'm
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm uneducated in sniffer dogs. Maybe it has
Speaker 2: to be a whole lot of amount for the dog
Speaker 2: to actually like pick up on it or something. I
Speaker 2: don't know.
Speaker 1: The other dog that's reaction, I think would just like
Speaker 1: sit and stare at the spot. So they had like
Speaker 1: different trainings for that. But very interesting. I think that
Speaker 1: would be such an interesting job to work with one
Speaker 1: of those dogs.
Speaker 2: Anything involving dogs, you're just like, sign me the fuck
Speaker 2: pretty much.
Speaker 1: The other day, I think I told her friend. I
Speaker 1: was like, we should open a candle, Ben and I
Speaker 1: should open a candle And she was like, with all
Speaker 1: your free time, hey yeah, no, I was like, we'd
Speaker 1: be really good at it though, but no, so both
Speaker 1: dogs alerted since behind the sofa in the living room
Speaker 1: of the apartment. They also detected something on the car
Speaker 1: the McCanns had rented, But the McCanns had rented this
Speaker 1: car a few weeks after Madeline had disappeared, and it
Speaker 1: was something was detected on Madeline's cuddle cat toy. So
Speaker 1: the very next day the Portuguese press began running stories
Speaker 1: about how Jerry and Kate had probably killed Madeleine and
Speaker 1: tried to cover it up. But that was at the
Speaker 1: end of July and they were already printing what was
Speaker 1: considered old news because by the beginning of June, the
Speaker 1: international press had turned on the mccans. Do you remember this?
Speaker 1: I feel like I remember this happening.
Speaker 2: I don't, but I'm I'm kind of wavering on some
Speaker 2: of the stuff with the dogs. It seems like a
Speaker 2: I don't know, not a foolproof thing, almost like a polygraph.
Speaker 2: It's a quasi type science because you're telling me, okay,
Speaker 2: they had a positive response on a rental car. A
Speaker 2: rental car. How many other people use this car prior
Speaker 2: to them? What else happened in this car? As far
Speaker 2: as I'm concerned that one should be out the window.
Speaker 1: Well I think they had even said like Madaline's scent
Speaker 1: of sorts could have been like on the or no,
Speaker 1: none on them. That must not have worked because the luggage,
Speaker 1: her luggage would probably not have been in there. This
Speaker 1: car was rented after so never mind take that out.
Speaker 2: But this is and then the toy. So we're talking
Speaker 2: blood and deceased, right, I'm pretty sure they wouldn't have
Speaker 2: a deceased child holding the toy. A blood maybe and
Speaker 2: kids scrape their knees who knows what, and they could
Speaker 2: get on there, no problem, totally a couch again blood,
Speaker 2: who knows and get on a couch easy enough. What
Speaker 2: if there's a dead mouse in the wall behind the
Speaker 2: couch or something.
Speaker 1: Or someone could have passed away in that that apartment
Speaker 1: or something. We have done cases where the dogs have
Speaker 1: gotten it wrong.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, And I'm making up different possibilities and what
Speaker 2: the dogs are actually hitting on. What did they do
Speaker 2: just straight up get it wrong? Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2: I don't I'm not sold on that at all. Yeah,
Speaker 2: especially the rental car one.
Speaker 1: That one's just like, it's far fetched.
Speaker 2: There's way too many variables in that situation as far
Speaker 2: as I'm concerned.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So, German, Portuguese, and British papers had been publishing
Speaker 1: stories suggesting that Jerry and Kate had had something to
Speaker 1: do with their daughter's disappearance. Some suggested that the whole
Speaker 1: group were a group of swingers and they all actively
Speaker 1: sedated their children so that they could party undisturbed.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 1: Some suggested that Madaline had died of a result of
Speaker 1: the sedation, and that was why the whole group was
Speaker 1: work working so hard to cover things up. These claims
Speaker 1: were somewhat backed up when the Portuguese police shared stories
Speaker 1: about the remaining McCann children. According to investigators, the twins
Speaker 1: had stayed asleep all through the night, even when the
Speaker 1: entire room had turned into a crime scene and people
Speaker 1: were in and out. Kids can sleep through like extensive things, though,
Speaker 1: and they not. They can surprising things.
Speaker 2: I feel like, yes, now, if kid falls asleep, they
Speaker 2: have a weird ability. It seems like some not all kids,
Speaker 2: not all kids, but they have a surprising ability to
Speaker 2: just sleep through anything.
Speaker 1: Like sometimes I feel late, Okay, lately I've been having
Speaker 1: sleeping issues, which is a new thing, and I sometimes
Speaker 1: just think about how when you were a kid, like
Speaker 1: you just like literally get the best fucking sleeps ever,
Speaker 1: Like you just don't wake up and you just actually
Speaker 1: feel rested when you wake up in the morning, and.
Speaker 2: Shit, yeah, and then you get older and you're just like,
Speaker 2: why does everything hurt? And why can't I fall asleep
Speaker 2: and get rested? Yeah, And even when you do fall
Speaker 2: asleep and get rested, you wake up with a new
Speaker 2: invigoration of tiredness still looming over you.
Speaker 1: Adult life out. The police also publicly asked why Kate
Speaker 1: had discovered that one of her children had gone missing
Speaker 1: and then immediately left after or left her other two
Speaker 1: children in the room to go and alert the others.
Speaker 1: That was something she was questioned about, like why didn't
Speaker 1: she just shout out to them or phone them on
Speaker 1: their cellphone or something.
Speaker 2: Because they were just right there across the street and
Speaker 2: she wanted to and get their help immediately, and she's panicking.
Speaker 1: That's why she wasn't thinking clearly. So Jane, Matthew, and
Speaker 1: the two parents, so four of the nine adults were
Speaker 1: being questioned in regards to some of their behavior. Jane,
Speaker 1: who could have allegedly made up her observation altogether of
Speaker 1: spotting a man carrying a young child. Matthew could have
Speaker 1: volunteered to check on the children at nine point thirty
Speaker 1: because he had ulterior motives and actually handed Madeline out
Speaker 1: to someone on the streets. Jerry for intentionally misdirecting police
Speaker 1: by giving contradictory statements and Kate's cries of they've taken
Speaker 1: her were intentional in order to point the investigator investigators
Speaker 1: towards a kidnapping rather than a murder.
Speaker 2: No, on that one. I'm sorry. If an investigation is occurring,
Speaker 2: you should not assume that the parent knows exactly what happened,
Speaker 2: or anyone knows exactly what happens. You start from square one.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's solely on investigators, even if she was doing
Speaker 2: that or not, just say yeah.
Speaker 1: But then there were so many reports to that basically,
Speaker 1: I mean, there was a lot of reports actually about
Speaker 1: the parents and a lot I think in a lot
Speaker 1: of interviews and stuff, they like they portrayed themselves pretty well,
Speaker 1: but they were also being like advised to as well
Speaker 1: because they didn't. They were kind of saying like, don't
Speaker 1: show like your fear, your emotion to the person that
Speaker 1: has potentially kidnapped your kid, right, Yeah. And then also
Speaker 1: with them being doctors, like I don't know, I feel
Speaker 1: like doctors lots of times they are all like delivering
Speaker 1: bad news and dealing with like really bad shit often
Speaker 1: that they may have like a really good coping mechanism
Speaker 1: probably right to like not show stuff.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they see death and sad people and like say,
Speaker 2: delivering these news all the time, so they probably have
Speaker 2: that kind of numbness to it a little bit already
Speaker 2: inherently built into them.
Speaker 1: Like it's their own kid, so it's different. Yeah, sure,
Speaker 1: but they could have a coping mechanism different than just
Speaker 1: like say, you and I maybe definitely.
Speaker 2: And I do want to preface this not to say
Speaker 2: it it isn't possible that the parents aren't responsible. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I just don't see it.
Speaker 1: I know, I don't feel like I see it too.
Speaker 1: But sometimes in the back of my head, I'm like, oh,
Speaker 1: could they have?
Speaker 2: But they could have, but what we've been presented with
Speaker 2: so far, everything seems too far fetched. Yeah, now it's
Speaker 2: possible that that is the truth. It's just like, if
Speaker 2: that is the truth, it's like, holy fuck, that's that's
Speaker 2: a very specific way and specific things, an odd, odd
Speaker 2: way for it to be happening. M h.
Speaker 1: I think there's only question in my mind because I
Speaker 1: remember when the media had kind of turned on them,
Speaker 1: and so I think that's in my mind, like just
Speaker 1: hearing that and being holy crap, like could these parents
Speaker 1: have done this? Right?
Speaker 2: Yeah? So, I mean, also, we have to look at
Speaker 2: the idea. And I'm not saying that investigators or authorities
Speaker 2: or are bad individuals, but say a certain individual in
Speaker 2: the investigation screw the so bad because clearly the investigation
Speaker 2: didn't go how it should have in the earlier stages. Right,
Speaker 2: what if to get back their own reputation or clear
Speaker 2: things up, they decided to, well, they were going to
Speaker 2: chase down what we all know to be the first
Speaker 2: people to look at the parents, the spouse, the husband,
Speaker 2: the family members. Yeah, well I screwed the Poots so bad.
Speaker 2: I'm going to put the spotlight on the parents. Clearly
Speaker 2: it was them, and I'm going to get my career
Speaker 2: back on track by blaming them and painting them in
Speaker 2: the negative light.
Speaker 1: Okay, that's so interesting that you say this. So after
Speaker 1: this episode's done, we're going to do another like mini episode,
Speaker 1: like a post episode that we're posting in Patreon. Yep,
Speaker 1: going over like nine different theories out there, and that's
Speaker 1: literally one of the theories.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, there we go.
Speaker 1: So there you go. If you want to like divulge
Speaker 1: in the theories with us, then you can do that
Speaker 1: over on Patreon. Okay, So the poortraies Portuguese police announced
Speaker 1: that Jerry and Kate were suspects in the case, the
Speaker 1: leading theory being that they'd killed Madeline, either intentionally or
Speaker 1: by accident, hid her body, and then dumped it much
Speaker 1: later on when everyone was busy looking for a kidnapper.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 1: The McCanns ended up leaving Portugal under advice from their
Speaker 1: legal team, which I'm sure was not easy, being that
Speaker 1: their little girl had not been found. The Portuguese police
Speaker 1: continued to leak stories to the press, and the public
Speaker 1: opinion continued to divide. In October two thousand and seven,
Speaker 1: only a month after the McCanns were declared as suspects
Speaker 1: in the case by Chief Inspector Amriol, Amriol was removed
Speaker 1: from his post as the Inquirer's coordinator. This was part
Speaker 1: due in his criticism of British police investigators, saying they
Speaker 1: only pursued leads in the McCann's favor and his involvement
Speaker 1: in a similar case. So the disappearance of Joanna Cypriana
Speaker 1: was who disappeared on August twelve, two thousand and four,
Speaker 1: at eight years old. So Amriel was accused of having
Speaker 1: covered up for other officers and convicted of having falsified
Speaker 1: police documents in the case. He received an eighteen month
Speaker 1: suspended sentence. So Joanna went missing three years earlier and
Speaker 1: only seven miles from where Madeleine went missing.
Speaker 2: Oh shit.
Speaker 1: So like Madeleine, she is not yet to be found.
Speaker 1: But at one point her mother and her uncle were
Speaker 1: convicted of her murders. Who actually they were convicted of
Speaker 1: her murder. Her mother later retracted her confession, saying that
Speaker 1: she'd only confess because the police had beaten her during
Speaker 1: her interrogation. It was apparently like a forty eight hour
Speaker 1: interrogation or something.
Speaker 2: Holy fuck, Oh thank you. I know that's like highly
Speaker 2: illegal shit going on with that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's just like I can't even want Yes, there
Speaker 1: you go. So Amorel was not present during the alleged assault,
Speaker 1: but that is what I believe he was accused of
Speaker 1: covering up seems like a similar m to Madeleine's case too.
Speaker 1: Not the police assaulting the parents per se, but a
Speaker 1: young girl missing and the family being put to blame
Speaker 1: by the police. Yeah, Amorel did go on to write
Speaker 1: a book alleging that Madeleine had died in an accident
Speaker 1: in the apartment, and then mccans went about covering it
Speaker 1: up by faking a reduction. The McCanns did take legal
Speaker 1: action against him and his publisher.
Speaker 2: Wow, just falsifying information. There's no facts on the shit,
Speaker 2: and he's just being like.
Speaker 1: Really yeah, and in that book, I was like in
Speaker 1: and out of courts and stuff, but like tons of
Speaker 1: copies got sold, which is really fucked actually, no kidding. Yeah,
Speaker 1: But then like some of the in the case, so
Speaker 1: it was like, that's just freedom of speech and stuff,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, actually, I don't know if it is,
Speaker 1: because at the time of the investigation he was in
Speaker 1: a position that shouldn't be able to just like willy
Speaker 1: nilly push it out there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And there's a difference between freedom of speech and slander. Yeah,
Speaker 2: if you are out there publishing information in a book
Speaker 2: as fact that certain people are murderers, that's going to
Speaker 2: have implications on their lives. That is slandering them. Yeah,
Speaker 2: so you have complete legal action to course or sorry,
Speaker 2: legal course to take action against that one hundred percent.
Speaker 2: If he publishes a book and he says I feel
Speaker 2: they're not good people, that's different. That's a personal opinion
Speaker 2: as opposed to they are murderers. Here are the facts?
Speaker 2: What facts? It did not go to court.
Speaker 1: I just feel like the McCanns, the parents just were
Speaker 1: like drug through the mud. Hey, it sounds like like
Speaker 1: it's so if I mean and just so, I mean
Speaker 1: they had enough stress of their child being missing and
Speaker 1: now all this additional stress just I don't know, it's
Speaker 1: almost how would you even survive? Really?
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's a good question actually.
Speaker 1: So moving on. About a year later, in the summer
Speaker 1: of two thousand and eight, the Portuguese Attorney General announced
Speaker 1: that there was no evidence to tie the mckens to
Speaker 1: Madeleine's disappearance and close the case. What followed in the
Speaker 1: years after were a lot more theories, a lot more investigations,
Speaker 1: but ultimately no answers. To this day, no one can
Speaker 1: positively say, without a shadow of adult what happened to
Speaker 1: Madeline and who did it. Though The case has been
Speaker 1: in the news recently for two reasons.
Speaker 2: M M wait two, I know oneas oh snap.
Speaker 1: So first being with Christian Brucker, who was a German
Speaker 1: national who has emerged recently as the prime suspect in
Speaker 1: the disappearance of Madeleine. He was identified as a suspect
Speaker 1: in twenty seventeen, and in June twenty twenty, German authorities
Speaker 1: announced that they had evidence suspecting he was responsible or
Speaker 1: sorry suggesting that he was responsible for Madeline's disappearance and
Speaker 1: her presumed death. So they're basically saying this guy killed her. However,
Speaker 1: he is yet to be convicted in connection with the case,
Speaker 1: and the investigation remains ongoing. But it's very like recent.
Speaker 1: He's like the most recent suspect I guess out there.
Speaker 1: And it's basically just being that he was kind of
Speaker 1: in the area at the time, and that he had
Speaker 1: like a past record kind of of like sexually assaulting
Speaker 1: tourists and like.
Speaker 2: Gotcha, shit, is he by any chance really ugly and blonde?
Speaker 1: Maybe? Actually is he? I don't know. I did actually
Speaker 1: see a photo of him. I can't remember if he
Speaker 1: was blonde or not.
Speaker 2: But he was ugly.
Speaker 1: Yeah, sure, yeah, yeah, let's say. Yeah, I can't like
Speaker 1: I can picture his face, but I can't like picture
Speaker 1: his face, But that makes sense.
Speaker 2: I'm still just picturing some really ugly blonde dude out there,
Speaker 2: just really sad.
Speaker 1: I know, they're so sad that they just have been
Speaker 1: reported so many times as being ugly.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's just got no friends. He's just trying to
Speaker 2: enjoy his life on vacation, and he's just people just said, yeah,
Speaker 2: I saw is an ugly blonde guy.
Speaker 1: Now he also has no friends.
Speaker 2: Yeah, or ugly blonde man? Oh shit, I feel so
Speaker 2: bad for him.
Speaker 1: Oh so what if he is a complete asshole? Though?
Speaker 2: What if he is the sweetest man alive?
Speaker 1: Anyway? Moving on, the second reason that this has been
Speaker 1: in the news recently is the recent claim from Julia
Speaker 1: Wendell claiming to be Madeline McCann. So is that the
Speaker 1: one you know of?
Speaker 2: Yes, I know of this one, though I didn't read
Speaker 2: many articles on it because I was not wanting to
Speaker 2: get emotionally attached. I was waiting for results.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I did go down quite a bit of a
Speaker 1: rabbit hole, actually, but I didn't really put all of
Speaker 1: that in here because I just I don't know, for
Speaker 1: many reasons. Maybe I'll talk about it more. We'll see,
Speaker 1: we'll see what I did. I actually choose to put
Speaker 1: in here. So she drummed up a huge Instagram following
Speaker 1: after creating account called I Am Madeleine MCCAINN. When I
Speaker 1: first came across this account, I actually took a screenshot
Speaker 1: I don't know if you remember, and I posted it
Speaker 1: in Patreon. The count at that time had one million followers.
Speaker 1: I do believe that it's been since like taken down
Speaker 1: and the whole time, the whole thing has ultimately turned
Speaker 1: into a disappointing mess. The DNA results revealed that Julia
Speaker 1: is not Madeline. She claims now that she never said
Speaker 1: she was Madeline McCain and used the sentence to create
Speaker 1: a nickname for an old Instagram account, which was a mistake,
Speaker 1: and now she appalledgizes for that. But ultimately I cannot
Speaker 1: even imagine the old wounds that this opened up for
Speaker 1: the McCanns. No shit, Julia's parents are hoping they can
Speaker 1: get their daughter the help she needs. She has a
Speaker 1: new Instagragram account where there are new issues being brought up,
Speaker 1: like with the self professed psychic called doctor Fia Johanson
Speaker 1: who involved herself in Julia's case kind of as her spokesperson,
Speaker 1: and I kind of seemed like it was being done
Speaker 1: for potential fame herself. But all in all, I think
Speaker 1: that she needs to just get out of the headlines
Speaker 1: at this point, because I'm not even putting her new
Speaker 1: Instagram in here. I did, like check it out, and
Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't know. That's just all I'm
Speaker 1: going to say about that. Fair enough, So older cases
Speaker 1: being brought to attention can definitely be helpful at times,
Speaker 1: I do think so, right, like, because it maybe people
Speaker 1: remember something or trigger something, right.
Speaker 2: Oh, definitely, No, it's it's better to keep.
Speaker 1: Stories alive, yes, but in the right way.
Speaker 2: In the right way, yeah. Not for personal gain or
Speaker 2: emotional gain or anything. It's I mean, it's not a
Speaker 2: story for yourself. It's not something for you to gain from,
Speaker 2: to be fair, I mean, yeah, of course, news media podcasts,
Speaker 2: there is monetary gain from it in certain aspects. However,
Speaker 2: to sit here and say I'm going to claim to
Speaker 2: be a potentially missing child or deceased individual and gain
Speaker 2: Instagram fame for it, and that is your motive, Like
Speaker 2: what the buck?
Speaker 1: And see, i'mon't even like you never know what is
Speaker 1: going on in person's mind, like like she maybe did
Speaker 1: help need help, she maybe did believe that she actually was.
Speaker 1: I know she was trying to figure out some of
Speaker 1: her past stuff and I know she did have some
Speaker 1: trauma in her past. So but still like that is
Speaker 1: I mean, that's just oh, like something you can't just
Speaker 1: be like apologized for later because just amount of oh
Speaker 1: shit that it just brought up, probably for so many people,
Speaker 1: is really really gross.
Speaker 2: I honestly think that that should be going into something
Speaker 2: like identity thefter fraud as far as I'm concerned.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So there's no shorts of information out there in
Speaker 1: regards to this case, so if you're interested in a
Speaker 1: more In March of twenty nineteen, Netflix released an eight
Speaker 1: part docu series that's titled The Disappearance of Madeleine McCain.
Speaker 1: It did renew a lot of interest in the case,
Speaker 1: but as I've said, there's unfortunately still no clear answers
Speaker 1: of what happened to Madeline.
Speaker 2: That's unfortunate.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean the fact that she's just a three
Speaker 1: year old little girl, well she's basically almost four, but
Speaker 1: still huh, that is too young.
Speaker 2: Hopefully she's much older now. Yeah, hopefully she's still around
Speaker 2: and she's she's older than that.
Speaker 1: M h. And yeah, so we're about to do a
Speaker 1: post show on Patreon and there's a there's a list
Speaker 1: of just the theories and some of them do potentially
Speaker 1: involve her still being around. So yeah, we're going to
Speaker 1: dive into those.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we usually do a pre show where we're talking
Speaker 2: a little bit of stuff, and so a post show
Speaker 2: is a little bit different for us. We're gonna given
Speaker 2: a shot see how it works out. So head on
Speaker 2: over check it out if you want to take a look.
Speaker 2: Link is down in the description below. You can follow
Speaker 2: that link, hit us up on Patreon. Could check out
Speaker 2: all the social media's if you want, Instagram, Facebook, YouTube,
Speaker 2: you name it, and they're all about to start getting
Speaker 2: a lot more content putting up here pretty quick.
Speaker 1: A little more traction.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was a good episode though, I mean, I
Speaker 2: really do feel for Madeline, and I also feel for
Speaker 2: the ugly blonde man.
Speaker 1: Too, oh my gosh, and the parents and the parents.
Speaker 1: The parents for some reason just like break my heart
Speaker 1: a little because I just I mean, we don't have kids,
Speaker 1: but just the thought, like I mean they say, like
Speaker 1: what when you have a kid, it's like your heart's
Speaker 1: almost living outside your body, right, and then that's just
Speaker 1: being taken away, Like how do you survive?
Speaker 2: Yeah, let me think of it like that movie dragon Heart,
Speaker 2: Remember that old movie back in the day, dragon Heart.
Speaker 2: The dude needed like to survive, so he went to
Speaker 2: the dragon, the king or something like that, got a
Speaker 2: piece of his the dragon's heart, to put in his
Speaker 2: son to let him survive. And then yeah, they shared
Speaker 2: a heart, so the only way to kill one was
Speaker 2: to kill the other. So in the movie, he's like
Speaker 2: getting stabbed in the heart and as he's the son's
Speaker 2: getting stabbed later on, like the dragon's feeling the pain.
Speaker 1: And yeah, well I lost Honey today for about five minutes,
Speaker 1: and I lost was losing my ship.
Speaker 2: So our dog, Honey, our dog. Yeah no, she wasn't
Speaker 2: raging over the pantry.
Speaker 1: Because yeah, if you're new here, we have a dog
Speaker 1: named Ripley and Honey and Honey is an asshole that wow,
Speaker 1: she kind of is. I'm actually a little pissed at
Speaker 1: her today. She he gets out of the yard occasionally
Speaker 1: does which is a husky thing.
Speaker 2: She doesn't though.
Speaker 1: She gets out of the art only when Ben's not here,
Speaker 1: so it's just all me. And usually, like I notice
Speaker 1: right away and then I call her and she comes back.
Speaker 1: And today she didn't come back right away, and I
Speaker 1: kind of lost my shit a little.
Speaker 2: Actually she came back, it was just a little longer.
Speaker 2: She was a little bit farther away this time.
Speaker 1: Yeah, she's a brat.
Speaker 2: She is a brat, but she's cute, so it's okay.
Speaker 2: She makes up for it.
Speaker 1: My apologies for calling her dog an asshole.
Speaker 2: You're not sorry at all. She also abuses our animals.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, and you one that would know me,
Speaker 1: like what abused them with? Like too many cugs and kisses.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you hug them too tight and you strangle them.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. I'm just obsessed with them. I can't
Speaker 1: love them enough. No, they're so cute.
Speaker 2: Look at them right now.
Speaker 1: I know they're perfect, well not perfect from like ninety
Speaker 1: nine percent.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Kiwi's perfect. The cat, the dogs, I don't know.
Speaker 2: Their life is a little rough.
Speaker 1: Holy eck. Okay, on that note, thank you so much
Speaker 1: for being here and listening, and until next Tuesday.
Speaker 2: Until next Tuesday, when I'm finally getting the case that
Speaker 2: had been working on for a little while. Oh yeah,
Speaker 2: until
Speaker 1: Then, stay wicked.