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<v Speaker 1>On the evening of May third, two thousand and seven,

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<v Speaker 1>the sleepy resort town of Preya Dalous in Portugal was

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<v Speaker 1>thrown into chaos. A three year old girl had vanished

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<v Speaker 1>from her family's holiday apartment while her parents dined at

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<v Speaker 1>a nearby restaurant. The little girl was Madeline McCann, and

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<v Speaker 1>what followed was an unprecedented international search effort that capitalized

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<v Speaker 1>the world and turned the McCanns into household names.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm Nicole, I'm Ben, and this is Wicked and Grim, a.

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<v Speaker 1>True crime podcast.

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<v Speaker 2>Good Morning. The following podcast cemetery mature audience.

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<v Speaker 1>Listener dis question is that the double you wouldn't even

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<v Speaker 1>tell who was who?

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<v Speaker 2>You wouldn't. You did a good job. You nailed that way.

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<v Speaker 1>I've been practicing.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, that's not something to flex on. Usually that

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<v Speaker 2>generally just means you're an alcoholic.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm just kidding. I haven't.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, you have been, don't lie.

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<v Speaker 1>I guess Okay, cheers, cheers. This is the last time

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<v Speaker 1>we're going to talk about Ben being done, because Ben's done.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm done. It's it. I quit my nine to five

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<v Speaker 2>with the help of all you amazing, awesome people out there.

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<v Speaker 2>I am pursuing owning my own company and Wicked and

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<v Speaker 2>Graham and podcasting is a piece of that.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, okay, what did we What did we keep saying

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<v Speaker 1>to each other? Because I think it was from a

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<v Speaker 1>we can't remember what movie it was, but it's basically

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<v Speaker 1>in there. I think they're on a date and got

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<v Speaker 1>one person's like, I'm an entrepreneur, and then the chick's like,

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<v Speaker 1>so you're unemployed? Yeah, or you're not unemployed?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, she's She's like, so you're unemployed and he's like, no,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm an entrepreneur and she's like, so you're unemployed. I

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<v Speaker 2>can't remember what that's from, but yeah, I feel like.

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<v Speaker 1>Justin Timberlake is in that scene. I'm pretty sure unless

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<v Speaker 1>I really am making shure.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh shit, that that was the Facebook movie. What's it

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<v Speaker 2>fucking called?

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<v Speaker 1>I can't remember. We actually just watched it recently.

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<v Speaker 2>We did you guys know what movie we're talking about?

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<v Speaker 2>Justin Timberlake And oh, I forget his name too, he

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<v Speaker 2>plays the Facebook dude names right now. Anyways, it's the

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<v Speaker 2>one about Facebook and how it all got started and everything.

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<v Speaker 1>Ben is like really really tired, So it's probably good

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<v Speaker 1>that I'm presenting this case today.

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<v Speaker 2>Probably my sleep schedules are all over the place. It

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<v Speaker 2>hasn't been normal last few days. I'm exhausted.

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<v Speaker 1>But you hit this for the first time in months. Yes,

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<v Speaker 1>am I allowed to make fun.

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<v Speaker 2>Of you of that, go for it. I'm super sore,

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<v Speaker 2>so yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>But you're back at it. That's all that matters.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, and yeah, it's it's exciting. What's going to be

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<v Speaker 2>coming down the pipe? This week marks the official start

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<v Speaker 2>of it all sure, done, done done, because it's probably

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<v Speaker 2>needing that dramatic effect music.

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<v Speaker 1>This alcoholic beverage that I'm drinking currently is fucking amazing.

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<v Speaker 1>It's actually distracting me every time I take a sip.

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<v Speaker 2>The way you held your can up and said this

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<v Speaker 2>alcoholic beverage, it just pictured me seeing you in a

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<v Speaker 2>stand being like, I love this alcoholic beverage. Go generic

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<v Speaker 2>sports team like you know, it's just like so non descript, Oh.

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<v Speaker 1>My gosh, with no it's a vodka soda verb. I

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<v Speaker 1>think it's called I've never had this wild strawberry.

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<v Speaker 2>Lemon fantastic, Like holy shit, huh, So you're gonna be

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<v Speaker 2>buying those more often, that's what you're saying.

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<v Speaker 1>I think so, and I'm kind of disappointed now that

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<v Speaker 1>I'm presenting, because I don't know if I'll be able

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<v Speaker 1>to drink this whole thing while it's cold.

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<v Speaker 2>She got to get you a straw so you can

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<v Speaker 2>just like have it sit in your mouth as you're

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<v Speaker 2>reading and slowly sip away. Could you imagine just an

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<v Speaker 2>ivy maybe just hook it into your veins?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, there you go.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, should do it.

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<v Speaker 1>So we have some patrons to think we do again.

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<v Speaker 1>We have quite a few this week, thank you, We

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<v Speaker 1>do freaking much.

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<v Speaker 2>And they're going to be subject to some awesome stuff

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<v Speaker 2>coming out on Patreon. Well starting the day you're listening

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<v Speaker 2>to this podcast, because it's about to get revamped reworked

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<v Speaker 2>with me going full time.

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<v Speaker 1>So we actually already have something new we're putting out today.

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<v Speaker 2>We do, which is kind of cool. Yeah, you gotta

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<v Speaker 2>have to go check it out though if you want

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<v Speaker 2>to know what it.

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<v Speaker 1>Is, well, we'll talk about it a bit at the

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<v Speaker 1>end too.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh we will, Okay, Okay, we'll do that then. For now, though,

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<v Speaker 2>we got to thank the people that signed up this

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<v Speaker 2>past week. So we have James Bamsey, Crystal Harvey, Courtney Garner,

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<v Speaker 2>Jessica Maury Tricia Leech s Alexia, I'm gonna probably say

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<v Speaker 2>her last name wrong, even though she gave us a

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<v Speaker 2>description on how to say it right. Vlenzuelia, I know

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<v Speaker 2>I said that wrong. The Lenuelia, the Lenzuela. I'm butchering this.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm doing so bad. I'm sorry, Alexia. And then also,

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<v Speaker 2>Lindy V.

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<v Speaker 1>You gave it your best effort. That's all that.

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<v Speaker 2>Anyways, hold on, my eyes are like tired and I

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<v Speaker 2>can't even.

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<v Speaker 1>See my lasses too. I just gotta throw that out there.

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<v Speaker 2>I think I do. Alexia, the Lenzuelia. Okay, a Lenzuela,

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<v Speaker 2>Alexia Belenzuela. There we go. I think I nailed it

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<v Speaker 2>on the.

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<v Speaker 1>Last one day. I think, well, you can let us know.

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<v Speaker 2>I even try to get Google to help me out,

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<v Speaker 2>and it was just actually it wasn't making a.

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<v Speaker 1>Difference, much to everybody's disbelief. We do use Google.

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<v Speaker 3>The only difference between us and the other pronounce or

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<v Speaker 3>whatever you want to call it, Yeah, the whole like

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<v Speaker 3>Texas Beech thing, the difference between us and other podcasts

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<v Speaker 3>is we just don't it out and we just own it.

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<v Speaker 1>And maybe we should sometimes or also I think a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of podcasts I've been listening to, well, I don't

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<v Speaker 1>actually listen to a shit podcast, but they then tell

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<v Speaker 1>me make it and like I'll be listening and I'm like,

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<v Speaker 1>that's freaking wrongs. But they pronounce it so well and

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<v Speaker 1>they don't like overthink it that it's just like boom, yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, they just pretend that they're saying it right.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, when it especially comes to patrons, I am not

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<v Speaker 2>going to sit here and pretend I know how to

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<v Speaker 2>say their name correctly, you know, so I will apologize,

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<v Speaker 2>But that is butcher.

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<v Speaker 1>That was a cool name, So there you go. I

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<v Speaker 1>feel like if you have a hard pronounced name, maybe

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<v Speaker 1>it's a cool name. Maybe maybe that's our names are

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<v Speaker 1>not hard to pronounce.

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<v Speaker 2>Ben and Nicole. That's about as standard and white as

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<v Speaker 2>you get.

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<v Speaker 1>Heay. But the amount of times, okay, we're going to

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<v Speaker 1>start here in one second. The amount of time though,

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<v Speaker 1>I get asked, how do you spell your first and

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<v Speaker 1>last name? Mostly the last, like people that actually don't

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<v Speaker 1>know how to.

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<v Speaker 2>Spell it well, because with Gibson there could be two bees.

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<v Speaker 1>I guess, and like Nicole, sometimes they're gonna be an

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<v Speaker 1>h yeah. But but sometimes they generally, I think, don't know.

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<v Speaker 1>Do you ever get asked how to sell ben? Actually yes,

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<v Speaker 1>but they're thinking it's Benjamin Benjamin.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, yeah, there's some stories about that that I'm not

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<v Speaker 2>going to dive into. But yeah, some people can fuck off.

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<v Speaker 2>I know my own name, tell me that. That's just

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<v Speaker 2>as far as I'll go.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, sure, it's ben Yeah, yeah, Okay, So let's

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<v Speaker 1>dive into this case here today we're talking about Madeline McCann.

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<v Speaker 2>I just shivered before you said the name, not after.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, this case, this case, actually, I mean a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of case are very interesting, with this one I find

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<v Speaker 1>very interesting and just like I don't know, this one

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<v Speaker 1>heart strings. Yeah. So Madeline McCann is a name we've

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<v Speaker 1>heard a lot about, right, especially recently with the recent controversy,

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<v Speaker 1>But we'll get around to that closer to the end.

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<v Speaker 1>There's been a lot of coverage on this case and

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of opinions, but we're going to try our

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<v Speaker 1>very best to stick to the facts. So Madeline Beth

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<v Speaker 1>McCann was born on May twelfth, two thousand and three,

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<v Speaker 1>in Leicester, England, her parents Gerald or Jerry. I'm going

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<v Speaker 1>to refer to him as Jerry Enough and Kate McCann

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<v Speaker 1>were both doctors, and shortly after they had Madeline, they

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<v Speaker 1>had a set of twins as well. In May two

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<v Speaker 1>thousand and seven, Jerry and Kate were going on a

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<v Speaker 1>holiday to Portugal with their three children, but they weren't

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<v Speaker 1>just going as a family. They were actually going with

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<v Speaker 1>nine adults and eight children. Like, that's a gang and

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<v Speaker 1>a half.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a whole gaggle of people.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so they're all going to Praya Dalouz to spend

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<v Speaker 1>some time together. The adults all knew each other in

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<v Speaker 1>some way, with a lot of them being doctors like

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<v Speaker 1>the McCanns. They would later be dubbed to the media

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<v Speaker 1>as the Tapis seven because they dined together in the

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<v Speaker 1>resorts Tapis restaurant most evenings, being that all were vacation

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<v Speaker 1>in the same apartment complex. This meant that the adults

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<v Speaker 1>could all pitch in to help look after each other's children,

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<v Speaker 1>and they can make use of the hotel's daycare center

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<v Speaker 1>and nightcare as well.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh that's handy.

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<v Speaker 1>That is handy, isn't it.

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<v Speaker 2>I do have to say though, being known as like

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<v Speaker 2>the Tapis seven, that's interesting. Like, I'm sure there was

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<v Speaker 2>a phase in my life where if I got murdered

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<v Speaker 2>or something and they come to my house, I'd be

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<v Speaker 2>known as like the Domino's box guy because of the

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<v Speaker 2>stack of Domino's pizzas, like in the garage and stuff.

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<v Speaker 1>Now we saw a good Yeah, there was when we

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<v Speaker 1>lived on at the other house because you could get delivery.

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<v Speaker 1>We can't get delivery where we are now.

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<v Speaker 2>And when we collected the little tabs off the boxes,

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<v Speaker 2>you got like free pizza. So often you were.

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<v Speaker 1>Pissed when they took that away. It was because of COVID.

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<v Speaker 1>COVID ruined a lot of things. Yeah, So the McCanns

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<v Speaker 1>had apartment five A, which was one of the two

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<v Speaker 1>grand floor apartments in that particular building, and another of

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<v Speaker 1>the families from their group had the other. But the

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<v Speaker 1>McCann's apartment was a little bit different. Therefore, the their

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<v Speaker 1>front door opened up onto the street outside the hotel complex,

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<v Speaker 1>and their balcony could be accessed by climbing up some steps.

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<v Speaker 1>The patio door around the back of the apartment opened

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<v Speaker 1>up onto the hotel's pooled, the tennis courts and the

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<v Speaker 1>restaurant in the bar. So they were like, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>I feel like almost the place you could just get

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<v Speaker 1>everywhere from, no kidding.

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<v Speaker 2>It was a very centralized location by the sound of it. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>and I mean you have like I mean, it's good

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<v Speaker 2>to have access and egress on your balcony for fire

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<v Speaker 2>hazards situations. Oh safety over there, not anymore, just saying,

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<v Speaker 2>but I mean that that is always a plus. However,

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<v Speaker 2>you got to make sure you are locking that.

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<v Speaker 1>As yeah, yeah, yeah, I do. So this was the

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<v Speaker 1>only way into the apartment that could be seen from

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<v Speaker 1>the inside of the hotel complex. Okay, the patio door. Sorry,

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<v Speaker 1>we kind of chatted in between there, so that piece

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<v Speaker 1>of information is important that you could see that the

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<v Speaker 1>paddy door faced kind of the resort.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, and then from the resort you could see into

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<v Speaker 2>their apartment through the patio doors.

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<v Speaker 1>Well kind of. The adults kind of claimed that, I think,

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<v Speaker 1>so okay. Because the adults of the group put the

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<v Speaker 1>children to bed around seven pm every night, they then

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<v Speaker 1>would go to the Tapis restaurant at eight thirty. They

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<v Speaker 1>specifically asked for a certain table every night so that

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<v Speaker 1>they could see the apartments from the restaurant, but the

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<v Speaker 1>children were left alone when the adults went for dinner.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, how old were the kids? Sorry? Do we get there?

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<v Speaker 2>You that here? Sorry, I am I getting ahead of

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<v Speaker 2>my They're.

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<v Speaker 1>Pretty young actually, well because Madeline is three, like almost four. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>and the boys, the twins are younger.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, that's that's that's pretty sketchy to be leaving alone,

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<v Speaker 2>even if you could just see the windows of your

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<v Speaker 2>apart apartment. That's kind of not.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, so we're touching on the first controversial point in

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<v Speaker 1>the case. The restaurant that the group ate at every

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<v Speaker 1>night was about fifty five meters away from the apartments,

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<v Speaker 1>but only if you could walk in a single straight line.

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<v Speaker 1>To actually get to the restaurant from five A, you

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<v Speaker 1>had to go out onto the main street and go

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<v Speaker 1>down the street, meaning that you had to walk close

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<v Speaker 1>to one hundred meters to get there. And the group

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<v Speaker 1>could actually only see the top of the apartment buildings,

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<v Speaker 1>not the patio door, and definitely not the front door

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<v Speaker 1>from where they were sitting. But they had their own

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<v Speaker 1>way of making sure the children were all right. This

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<v Speaker 1>is what their way was. Okay, About every half an hour,

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<v Speaker 1>one of the parents from each family would go and

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<v Speaker 1>check on the children.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, all right.

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<v Speaker 1>So every half an hour they one of the sets

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<v Speaker 1>of parents would leave the restaurant and go check on

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<v Speaker 1>their kids.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, I mean that's not perfect, but that's not bad.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm going to make the devil's advocate argument here of say,

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<v Speaker 2>the kids having an afternoon nap and parents who are

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<v Speaker 2>like I would never leave my kid at home alone. Sure,

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<v Speaker 2>you're right, but your kids having an afternoon nap, you

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<v Speaker 2>might be out in the backyard gardening, might not be

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<v Speaker 2>in the house to hear pop in the house every

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<v Speaker 2>half an hour or so. I don't see a whole

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<v Speaker 2>lot of a difference, really. I mean, there is a

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<v Speaker 2>little bit of a difference, but not.

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<v Speaker 1>A it's a little bit more of a journey.

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<v Speaker 2>It is, but there because what I see is if

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<v Speaker 2>they're sitting in a restaurant, they can't They might be

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<v Speaker 2>able to see the windows of flights go on or

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<v Speaker 2>something like that. Typically you'd think, but if you're going

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<v Speaker 2>into the building, that's when you'd hear crying, for example,

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<v Speaker 2>you couldn't hear that from the restaurant.

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<v Speaker 1>No, absolutely not.

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<v Speaker 2>You probably wouldn't be able to hear crying. Say, if

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<v Speaker 2>you're in the backyard gardening or something like that too.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, chances are you might, but not always. There's

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<v Speaker 2>situations where it might be similar to you might as

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<v Speaker 2>well be across the street in a restaurant.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>So I'm not saying that what they're doing is good,

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<v Speaker 2>but I'm saying that at least they have a solid

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<v Speaker 2>plan on how to take care of it and make

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<v Speaker 2>it a better situation.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, they're making somewhat an effort, Yes, but I think

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know nowadays, I'm just thinking that you couldn't

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<v Speaker 1>do that. No, no, right, I mean, but this isn't

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<v Speaker 1>that long ago. This was in like two thousand and seven.

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<v Speaker 2>No, well, I'm not saying they should do that. I'm saying,

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<v Speaker 2>one hundred percent they should not be doing this. Yeah, however,

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00:14:30.720 --> 00:14:33.879
<v Speaker 2>it's not like they're that far off from what people

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00:14:33.919 --> 00:14:37.120
<v Speaker 2>do in a regular basis anyways. Yeah, is what I'm saying.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, what they could have just done is one night,

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<v Speaker 1>maybe the guys go out for dinner and the next

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<v Speaker 1>night the girls go out for dinner or something. Right,

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00:14:44.000 --> 00:14:46.480
<v Speaker 1>just switch it up exactly, Or they put all the

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<v Speaker 1>kids in one room and like one person just has.

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<v Speaker 2>To stay or bear with me here, this is a stretch.

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<v Speaker 2>I know they get a babysitter.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, yeah, because the place did apparently have a care

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00:14:57.919 --> 00:15:02.240
<v Speaker 1>center exactly, so I don't know. Okay, So about every

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<v Speaker 1>half an hour, one of the parents from each family

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00:15:04.840 --> 00:15:06.960
<v Speaker 1>would go check on the kids, So meaning that on

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<v Speaker 1>May or two thousand and seven, the first check happened

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<v Speaker 1>at about nine pm from the McCanns. Gary or Jerry,

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00:15:15.279 --> 00:15:19.120
<v Speaker 1>Where did Gary come from? Jerry went first, Good old Gary.

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<v Speaker 1>They had decided, you're not gonna like this part here.

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00:15:22.120 --> 00:15:24.759
<v Speaker 1>They had decided to use the patio door to get

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<v Speaker 1>to the restaurant that night. Aw that was because the

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00:15:27.559 --> 00:15:30.279
<v Speaker 1>children slept in the room closest to the front door,

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00:15:30.559 --> 00:15:33.519
<v Speaker 1>which the mccans kept locked, and they were afraid that

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00:15:33.600 --> 00:15:35.879
<v Speaker 1>going in and out that way would wake up the children.

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00:15:36.840 --> 00:15:39.679
<v Speaker 1>But that also meant that the patio door that opened

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00:15:39.720 --> 00:15:43.159
<v Speaker 1>up to the living room had to stay unlocked, because

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00:15:43.159 --> 00:15:46.080
<v Speaker 1>it only locked from the inside of the apartment.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you don't do that.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that kind of just makes me shiver a little. No.

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00:15:50.919 --> 00:15:53.559
<v Speaker 2>Rule number one of any sort of horror movie always

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00:15:53.559 --> 00:15:58.080
<v Speaker 2>says that you lock your patio door when you are anywhere,

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00:15:59.120 --> 00:16:01.960
<v Speaker 2>Lock your doors, lock your doors, hid your kids hi'd

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00:16:01.960 --> 00:16:03.279
<v Speaker 2>your wife lock your doors? Right?

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<v Speaker 1>So Jerry went into the apartment and went to the

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00:16:06.399 --> 00:16:10.200
<v Speaker 1>door to the children's bedroom. The twin twins were in

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00:16:10.240 --> 00:16:12.799
<v Speaker 1>travel cots in the middle of the room, and Madeline

319
00:16:12.879 --> 00:16:14.759
<v Speaker 1>was in a bed close to the bedroom door and

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00:16:14.840 --> 00:16:18.279
<v Speaker 1>opposite the only window in the room. The window faced

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00:16:18.279 --> 00:16:21.759
<v Speaker 1>the main street, not the hotel complex, but the metal

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00:16:21.799 --> 00:16:24.159
<v Speaker 1>shutter was down and the only way to open it

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00:16:24.240 --> 00:16:29.320
<v Speaker 1>was from the inside. The children were asleep. Madeline was

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00:16:29.360 --> 00:16:33.960
<v Speaker 1>wrapped in bed with her comfort blanket, her toy called Cuddlecat,

325
00:16:34.399 --> 00:16:36.919
<v Speaker 1>and was wearing a pair of white and pink pajamas.

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00:16:37.440 --> 00:16:39.600
<v Speaker 1>I hate the descriptions of that kind of shit. I

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00:16:39.759 --> 00:16:41.440
<v Speaker 1>almost not everyone to put them in.

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00:16:41.799 --> 00:16:45.559
<v Speaker 2>That's because I know why those ties there too. Yeah.

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00:16:46.080 --> 00:16:48.279
<v Speaker 1>The only thing that really stood out to Jerry that

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00:16:48.320 --> 00:16:51.360
<v Speaker 1>particular trip to check on the children was that he

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00:16:51.480 --> 00:16:56.000
<v Speaker 1>remembered mostly closing but not fully closing the door to

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00:16:56.039 --> 00:16:59.600
<v Speaker 1>the bedroom, and now it was actually completely open. He

333
00:16:59.639 --> 00:17:02.200
<v Speaker 1>did this same thing again, though mostly closed the door

334
00:17:02.200 --> 00:17:04.519
<v Speaker 1>to the bedroom, but nothing seemed out of the place.

335
00:17:05.240 --> 00:17:08.160
<v Speaker 1>There was also a children's gate between the bedroom and

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00:17:08.200 --> 00:17:10.880
<v Speaker 1>the rest of the apartment and that was still closed,

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00:17:11.359 --> 00:17:15.519
<v Speaker 1>so Jerry let things be and went back to the restaurant.

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<v Speaker 1>One of the adults of the group, a woman named

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00:17:18.799 --> 00:17:21.720
<v Speaker 1>Jane Tanner, had also gone up to check on her

340
00:17:21.799 --> 00:17:25.759
<v Speaker 1>children at the same time. She remembers seeing how I

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00:17:25.880 --> 00:17:27.720
<v Speaker 1>want to see Gary every time. Now this is gonna

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00:17:27.759 --> 00:17:30.640
<v Speaker 1>fuck with me. Jerry, Jerry, Jerry, Jerry.

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00:17:31.119 --> 00:17:33.359
<v Speaker 2>She remembers, just don't say it in the mirror three times,

344
00:17:33.400 --> 00:17:34.440
<v Speaker 2>otherwise they'll show up.

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00:17:35.240 --> 00:17:39.200
<v Speaker 1>She remembers seeing Jerry outside five eighth talking to another

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00:17:39.279 --> 00:17:43.920
<v Speaker 1>British person on holiday, but she also remembers seeing someone else.

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00:17:44.319 --> 00:17:48.559
<v Speaker 1>At around nine fifteen, Jane spotted a man carrying a

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00:17:48.599 --> 00:17:52.720
<v Speaker 1>young child and heading east away from the building. The

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00:17:52.799 --> 00:17:55.880
<v Speaker 1>man looked to be in his mid thirties to early forties,

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00:17:55.920 --> 00:17:59.640
<v Speaker 1>with dark hair and dark eyes. Jane said that he

351
00:17:59.680 --> 00:18:04.079
<v Speaker 1>looked like he was either Southern European or Mediterranean. Only

352
00:18:04.079 --> 00:18:08.279
<v Speaker 1>about an hour later, this sighting would become hugely important

353
00:18:08.680 --> 00:18:11.640
<v Speaker 1>because the child he'd been caring had been wearing similar

354
00:18:11.680 --> 00:18:16.440
<v Speaker 1>pajamas as Madeline. Around nine thirty, when it came time

355
00:18:16.480 --> 00:18:20.000
<v Speaker 1>to do the next rounds of checks, it was Kate's turn.

356
00:18:20.440 --> 00:18:22.920
<v Speaker 1>She got up, but the father from the family next

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00:18:22.920 --> 00:18:27.160
<v Speaker 1>door in five b Matthew Oldfield offered to check in

358
00:18:27.200 --> 00:18:29.799
<v Speaker 1>on the McCann's children while he was checking in on

359
00:18:29.880 --> 00:18:33.359
<v Speaker 1>his own. Kate sat down and Matthew went to the

360
00:18:33.400 --> 00:18:37.359
<v Speaker 1>park to the apartment instead. He first checked on his

361
00:18:37.400 --> 00:18:41.160
<v Speaker 1>own children and then went into five A. There he

362
00:18:41.200 --> 00:18:44.559
<v Speaker 1>found the door to the children's bedroom again wide open,

363
00:18:44.920 --> 00:18:47.200
<v Speaker 1>but he didn't go in. He had a quick look

364
00:18:47.200 --> 00:18:50.240
<v Speaker 1>into the room, but he couldn't hear anything. It sounded

365
00:18:50.279 --> 00:18:52.839
<v Speaker 1>like the children were still fast asleep, so he turned

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00:18:52.880 --> 00:18:56.960
<v Speaker 1>around and left. That put the next check at ten pm,

367
00:18:57.599 --> 00:19:01.200
<v Speaker 1>and this time Kate did go herself to check on them.

368
00:19:01.920 --> 00:19:05.240
<v Speaker 1>Kate left the restaurant and entered the apartment through the

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00:19:05.359 --> 00:19:09.759
<v Speaker 1>unlocked patio door. The first thing she noticed was at

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00:19:09.799 --> 00:19:13.599
<v Speaker 1>the door to the children's room was wide open, and

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00:19:13.599 --> 00:19:16.880
<v Speaker 1>when she went to close it, the door actually slammed

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00:19:16.880 --> 00:19:21.400
<v Speaker 1>in her face. She opened it again, realizing that it

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00:19:21.519 --> 00:19:24.680
<v Speaker 1>actually closed because of a draft. The shutter on the

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00:19:24.720 --> 00:19:28.599
<v Speaker 1>window inside the room was up and the window was open,

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00:19:29.160 --> 00:19:31.359
<v Speaker 1>and Madeline was not in her bed.

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00:19:32.799 --> 00:19:35.839
<v Speaker 2>That is a moment where any parent their heart would

377
00:19:36.200 --> 00:19:43.240
<v Speaker 2>absolutely sink. Oh my gosh, yeah, holy shit, what I

378
00:19:43.359 --> 00:19:46.640
<v Speaker 2>just I mean, I'm pretty sure that it's not the case,

379
00:19:46.680 --> 00:19:49.240
<v Speaker 2>but I'm going to just talk about this anyways, the

380
00:19:49.279 --> 00:19:52.640
<v Speaker 2>sighting of the individual carrying the child away in the

381
00:19:52.680 --> 00:19:56.079
<v Speaker 2>similar pajamas. What if it was literally just some dude

382
00:19:56.200 --> 00:19:58.880
<v Speaker 2>and his kid was just also wearing these like pink pajamas.

383
00:19:58.920 --> 00:20:00.000
<v Speaker 2>He's carrying his kid somewhere.

384
00:20:00.599 --> 00:20:03.319
<v Speaker 1>It was it was I'm going to say that later, but.

385
00:20:03.319 --> 00:20:06.319
<v Speaker 2>I was, oh, really, yeah, okay, yeah, it.

386
00:20:06.240 --> 00:20:08.839
<v Speaker 1>Was literally someone picking up their kid from that care

387
00:20:08.920 --> 00:20:10.559
<v Speaker 1>center and going back.

388
00:20:11.359 --> 00:20:12.960
<v Speaker 2>Hashtag called it so.

389
00:20:14.519 --> 00:20:14.759
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

390
00:20:14.839 --> 00:20:16.400
<v Speaker 2>I had a feeling we were going to get onto this,

391
00:20:16.440 --> 00:20:18.000
<v Speaker 2>and it was like, no, it was actually the dude.

392
00:20:18.039 --> 00:20:19.480
<v Speaker 2>That's where I thought you were going to be going.

393
00:20:19.519 --> 00:20:22.279
<v Speaker 2>But I was like, what if it's just some fucking

394
00:20:22.319 --> 00:20:22.640
<v Speaker 2>dude and.

395
00:20:22.640 --> 00:20:25.920
<v Speaker 1>His some random Yeah, some random dude also on holiday

396
00:20:26.200 --> 00:20:27.680
<v Speaker 1>picking up his child and going home.

397
00:20:27.799 --> 00:20:30.079
<v Speaker 2>I mean, how many little girls have like pink and

398
00:20:30.079 --> 00:20:31.000
<v Speaker 2>white pajamas?

399
00:20:31.000 --> 00:20:32.079
<v Speaker 1>A lot? I would assume.

400
00:20:32.240 --> 00:20:35.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so I would assume any father carrying his kid

401
00:20:35.279 --> 00:20:38.000
<v Speaker 2>to and from a daycare or to the apartment or whatever,

402
00:20:38.799 --> 00:20:41.039
<v Speaker 2>their kid falls asleep on the road trip or in

403
00:20:41.079 --> 00:20:43.039
<v Speaker 2>his arms or whatever, it's just because it was late.

404
00:20:43.480 --> 00:20:45.680
<v Speaker 1>I have pink and white pajamas, for God's sakes.

405
00:20:45.519 --> 00:20:45.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah you do.

406
00:20:46.519 --> 00:20:47.359
<v Speaker 1>So there you go.

407
00:20:47.599 --> 00:20:50.920
<v Speaker 2>So it was just a dad carrying their kid. Yeah,

408
00:20:51.279 --> 00:20:55.200
<v Speaker 2>but that's not to say that, uh, Madeline's still not missing.

409
00:20:56.079 --> 00:20:59.319
<v Speaker 1>So both of the twins were still fast asleep, that

410
00:20:59.440 --> 00:21:03.960
<v Speaker 1>Madeline wasn't anywhere in the apartment, and Kate went straight

411
00:21:04.319 --> 00:21:07.480
<v Speaker 1>into panic mode. She briefly searched the apartment and then

412
00:21:07.599 --> 00:21:12.440
<v Speaker 1>ran back towards the restaurant, screaming, Madeline's gone. Someone has

413
00:21:12.519 --> 00:21:16.240
<v Speaker 1>taken her. Both the group that the mccans were traveling

414
00:21:16.400 --> 00:21:19.200
<v Speaker 1>or both. Oh yeah, I did say that, right, the

415
00:21:19.240 --> 00:21:21.920
<v Speaker 1>group that the mccans were traveling with and the hotel

416
00:21:22.000 --> 00:21:23.680
<v Speaker 1>staff sprang into action.

417
00:21:24.079 --> 00:21:25.440
<v Speaker 2>The hotel staff too, Hey.

418
00:21:25.279 --> 00:21:26.880
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, they had like a protocol thing.

419
00:21:26.920 --> 00:21:30.400
<v Speaker 2>Oh that's good. That's awesome, it's really good. Procedures are important.

420
00:21:31.039 --> 00:21:31.759
<v Speaker 1>Oh wow.

421
00:21:32.000 --> 00:21:35.160
<v Speaker 2>See coming from the safety professional background, procedures they are.

422
00:21:35.440 --> 00:21:37.519
<v Speaker 2>They are very important. Yeah, they are.

423
00:21:37.640 --> 00:21:40.240
<v Speaker 1>I mean, I'm assuming that kids have gone missing from

424
00:21:40.279 --> 00:21:43.640
<v Speaker 1>the resort before, potentially not to this degree, but like

425
00:21:43.720 --> 00:21:46.319
<v Speaker 1>they wandered off while they're like oh fool or something. Right.

426
00:21:46.400 --> 00:21:48.960
<v Speaker 2>Well, and that's why minimizing the risk, assessing the hazardous

427
00:21:49.000 --> 00:21:51.599
<v Speaker 2>situations where it can happen, and making sure you have

428
00:21:51.599 --> 00:21:54.160
<v Speaker 2>a procedure in place in the event of you can

429
00:21:54.160 --> 00:21:56.480
<v Speaker 2>follow it exactly, not to mention that you're also going

430
00:21:56.519 --> 00:21:59.119
<v Speaker 2>to do an investigation afterwards to ensure that you can

431
00:21:59.480 --> 00:22:02.000
<v Speaker 2>follow up on any risks and hazards and minimize them

432
00:22:02.000 --> 00:22:02.519
<v Speaker 2>even further.

433
00:22:03.200 --> 00:22:06.319
<v Speaker 1>So that would be probably making sure your patio door

434
00:22:06.440 --> 00:22:09.200
<v Speaker 1>is locked and have not have your children alone.

435
00:22:09.359 --> 00:22:12.519
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, right, procedure for your house. Lock your doors, hide

436
00:22:12.559 --> 00:22:14.720
<v Speaker 2>your kids, hide your wife. There you go, We started

437
00:22:14.720 --> 00:22:16.799
<v Speaker 2>your procedure for you out post it.

438
00:22:17.000 --> 00:22:19.640
<v Speaker 1>We're just saying facts here. We're trying not to judge

439
00:22:19.759 --> 00:22:23.720
<v Speaker 1>or not judging because like, no one ever in scenarios

440
00:22:23.759 --> 00:22:26.200
<v Speaker 1>like you're on vacation, you're like with your friends, you're

441
00:22:26.240 --> 00:22:29.960
<v Speaker 1>enjoying yourself. You're never going to be like especially in

442
00:22:30.000 --> 00:22:32.799
<v Speaker 1>that situation when you're relaxed, thinking of probably about worst

443
00:22:32.839 --> 00:22:36.000
<v Speaker 1>case scenarios. Right, So oh yeah, no, I'm I never

444
00:22:36.200 --> 00:22:37.319
<v Speaker 1>wanted this to happen.

445
00:22:37.559 --> 00:22:39.759
<v Speaker 2>No, No, I'm being a little bit facetious here and

446
00:22:39.799 --> 00:22:41.680
<v Speaker 2>just kind of going over the top. No one's ever

447
00:22:41.720 --> 00:22:43.680
<v Speaker 2>going to be perfect. We don't expect everyone to lock

448
00:22:43.880 --> 00:22:46.759
<v Speaker 2>everything in their house every single day. Half the time,

449
00:22:46.799 --> 00:22:47.920
<v Speaker 2>our front door isn't locked.

450
00:22:48.559 --> 00:22:51.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, just say waited to stare that with everyone.

451
00:22:51.079 --> 00:22:52.759
<v Speaker 2>Okay, now we're going to be locking it.

452
00:22:54.559 --> 00:22:57.279
<v Speaker 1>Okay. So by ten ten the police have been called,

453
00:22:57.319 --> 00:23:01.960
<v Speaker 1>and by ten thirty the hotel initiated it's Missing Children's protocol,

454
00:23:02.480 --> 00:23:06.559
<v Speaker 1>putting every available staff member on searches throughout the entire

455
00:23:06.640 --> 00:23:11.160
<v Speaker 1>hotel complex. And they continued searching until four thirty in

456
00:23:11.200 --> 00:23:14.160
<v Speaker 1>the morning. And I think a lot of actual hotel

457
00:23:14.200 --> 00:23:17.319
<v Speaker 1>guests also kind of joined the search, which is good, nice,

458
00:23:17.559 --> 00:23:20.200
<v Speaker 1>good for them. So the first two officers arrived at

459
00:23:20.200 --> 00:23:23.799
<v Speaker 1>eleven ten, they did a brief search and called for

460
00:23:23.880 --> 00:23:27.319
<v Speaker 1>backup at midnight, with those people arriving at one in

461
00:23:27.359 --> 00:23:31.279
<v Speaker 1>the morning. The first person they tried to track down

462
00:23:31.440 --> 00:23:34.920
<v Speaker 1>was that man that Jane Tanner had seen around nine fifteen,

463
00:23:35.640 --> 00:23:40.599
<v Speaker 1>especially because Matthew Oldfield couldn't remember if he'd specifically seen

464
00:23:40.680 --> 00:23:43.319
<v Speaker 1>Madeline when he checked in on the children around nine

465
00:23:43.319 --> 00:23:44.559
<v Speaker 1>to thirty, which is shitty.

466
00:23:45.440 --> 00:23:47.839
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but I can't blame them, no, because like half

467
00:23:47.839 --> 00:23:49.839
<v Speaker 2>the time when people are checking on other kids will

468
00:23:49.880 --> 00:23:51.039
<v Speaker 2>just like listen in to the door.

469
00:23:51.119 --> 00:23:52.839
<v Speaker 1>Because then you know, whe will accidentally wake.

470
00:23:52.640 --> 00:23:55.240
<v Speaker 2>Them exactly, So I can't blame them for that whatsoever.

471
00:23:55.680 --> 00:23:57.720
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, But I mean it kind of sucks that they

472
00:23:57.720 --> 00:24:01.279
<v Speaker 1>didn't exactly know when the kids, Yeah, when Madeline.

473
00:24:00.960 --> 00:24:03.920
<v Speaker 2>And let gone r The time frame is much more

474
00:24:04.000 --> 00:24:04.680
<v Speaker 2>than they could have been.

475
00:24:04.759 --> 00:24:08.119
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. So, but the man the police were searching for

476
00:24:08.759 --> 00:24:13.319
<v Speaker 1>was one of many people witnesses saw around the apartment building.

477
00:24:14.079 --> 00:24:17.160
<v Speaker 1>Some witnesses were called seeing an ugly blonde man in

478
00:24:17.240 --> 00:24:20.759
<v Speaker 1>and around the hotel and days leading up to that night. Wow,

479
00:24:20.799 --> 00:24:23.559
<v Speaker 1>that's description, shitty description to have for yourself.

480
00:24:23.680 --> 00:24:26.480
<v Speaker 2>Watch it's just some other dude just staying there on vacation.

481
00:24:26.599 --> 00:24:28.759
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, there's this ugly blonde man that's been hanging

482
00:24:28.799 --> 00:24:31.480
<v Speaker 2>around and he's just like around the corner listening to

483
00:24:31.480 --> 00:24:36.079
<v Speaker 2>this Oh oh, sad ugly blonde man. Feel for him.

484
00:24:36.359 --> 00:24:40.279
<v Speaker 1>Several witnesses remember seeing a group of suspicious looking men

485
00:24:41.200 --> 00:24:46.400
<v Speaker 1>pretending to actually be charity workers. Another couple reported seeing

486
00:24:46.400 --> 00:24:49.680
<v Speaker 1>a man carrying a child wearing light colored pajamas. And

487
00:24:49.759 --> 00:24:52.480
<v Speaker 1>I'm not certain if this is the same man. This

488
00:24:52.599 --> 00:24:55.119
<v Speaker 1>is a different couple reporting it, so it could be

489
00:24:55.200 --> 00:24:59.160
<v Speaker 1>a different individual. This one was approximately five hundred yards

490
00:24:59.160 --> 00:25:02.079
<v Speaker 1>from the mccannsip apartment and was heading towards the beach,

491
00:25:02.160 --> 00:25:04.319
<v Speaker 1>and that was around ten that night, So I think

492
00:25:04.359 --> 00:25:07.759
<v Speaker 1>it's a different man. But and who knows this could

493
00:25:07.799 --> 00:25:09.759
<v Speaker 1>be the man that had Madeline.

494
00:25:09.279 --> 00:25:12.599
<v Speaker 2>Five hundred yard that's a long ways, yeah.

495
00:25:12.119 --> 00:25:15.559
<v Speaker 1>Because that the Jane person saw the kid at nine

496
00:25:15.559 --> 00:25:19.920
<v Speaker 1>point fifteen, and that one was deemed to be a

497
00:25:20.079 --> 00:25:24.440
<v Speaker 1>like also holiday person, Okay, and so I'm assuming that

498
00:25:24.519 --> 00:25:27.359
<v Speaker 1>person probably wasn't five hundred yards away, So I'm thinking

499
00:25:27.400 --> 00:25:32.039
<v Speaker 1>this is a different, different spotting. So some of these

500
00:25:32.079 --> 00:25:35.039
<v Speaker 1>men were tracked down. Some of them were actually already

501
00:25:35.039 --> 00:25:38.079
<v Speaker 1>on police's radar because the area was experienced a peak

502
00:25:38.160 --> 00:25:41.519
<v Speaker 1>of burglaries at the time. The block the McCanns were

503
00:25:41.519 --> 00:25:44.680
<v Speaker 1>staying on had two break ins in the seventeen days

504
00:25:44.720 --> 00:25:49.640
<v Speaker 1>before Madeleine's disappearance, but no one could find the man

505
00:25:49.680 --> 00:25:53.240
<v Speaker 1>that Jane Tanner claimed to have seen at nine point fifteen,

506
00:25:54.119 --> 00:25:56.559
<v Speaker 1>And there were more than a few reasons for it.

507
00:25:57.440 --> 00:26:00.039
<v Speaker 1>In those I've already spilled the beans on that, and

508
00:26:00.079 --> 00:26:02.440
<v Speaker 1>I'm just going to continue on the fucking fair enough.

509
00:26:02.519 --> 00:26:03.720
<v Speaker 2>Just go with your script for now.

510
00:26:04.599 --> 00:26:08.920
<v Speaker 1>So, in those very critical first hours of Madeline's disappearance,

511
00:26:09.000 --> 00:26:12.559
<v Speaker 1>the police response was questionable, and I hate when we

512
00:26:12.640 --> 00:26:14.599
<v Speaker 1>have to say that, but we're just giving facts here.

513
00:26:15.279 --> 00:26:19.240
<v Speaker 1>So they arrived late, even though they were within close proximity.

514
00:26:19.759 --> 00:26:22.799
<v Speaker 1>They didn't inform the Border or the Marine police right

515
00:26:22.839 --> 00:26:26.119
<v Speaker 1>away of the situation or give them a description of

516
00:26:26.160 --> 00:26:27.559
<v Speaker 1>Madeline's appearance.

517
00:26:27.640 --> 00:26:32.519
<v Speaker 2>Are you kidding? Yeah, on a fucking missing child. Yeah,

518
00:26:32.640 --> 00:26:36.480
<v Speaker 2>where chances are if they have been kidnapped, the person

519
00:26:36.559 --> 00:26:40.920
<v Speaker 2>is literally fleeing running away with them. Yeah.

520
00:26:41.240 --> 00:26:44.720
<v Speaker 1>So so those people who have been on alert for this, right.

521
00:26:44.799 --> 00:26:46.319
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, that's the first thing you want to do

522
00:26:46.400 --> 00:26:48.440
<v Speaker 2>is make sure you inform everyone in the area to

523
00:26:48.440 --> 00:26:49.160
<v Speaker 2>be on the lookout.

524
00:26:49.359 --> 00:26:52.880
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, they didn't do house to house searches in the

525
00:26:53.000 --> 00:26:56.279
<v Speaker 1>area and they didn't set up roadblocks until ten the

526
00:26:56.359 --> 00:27:00.720
<v Speaker 1>following morning, but that, unfortunately wasn't all they did wrong.

527
00:27:01.039 --> 00:27:02.400
<v Speaker 2>What the fuck did they do?

528
00:27:03.000 --> 00:27:07.079
<v Speaker 1>They also didn't interview everyone staying and working at the hotel,

529
00:27:07.160 --> 00:27:09.720
<v Speaker 1>and to top it all off, the crime scene didn't

530
00:27:09.720 --> 00:27:13.920
<v Speaker 1>get secured properly. Samples taken from the room came back

531
00:27:14.000 --> 00:27:19.000
<v Speaker 1>with DNA belonging to an identified person, but by the

532
00:27:19.039 --> 00:27:21.160
<v Speaker 1>time the samples had been sent to the lab, about

533
00:27:21.200 --> 00:27:23.920
<v Speaker 1>twenty people had been in and out of the apartment.

534
00:27:24.400 --> 00:27:25.319
<v Speaker 2>Holy shit.

535
00:27:26.039 --> 00:27:30.119
<v Speaker 1>Yeah wow, So that's like a lot of things that

536
00:27:30.880 --> 00:27:33.160
<v Speaker 1>could have messed up this investigation.

537
00:27:33.640 --> 00:27:37.640
<v Speaker 2>No kidding. I mean unless you're able to identify and

538
00:27:37.720 --> 00:27:40.960
<v Speaker 2>track exactly who's been in and out and why and everything,

539
00:27:41.759 --> 00:27:44.880
<v Speaker 2>then you it would take a lot of time and resources,

540
00:27:44.920 --> 00:27:47.599
<v Speaker 2>but you'd be able to weed them out then. But still,

541
00:27:47.759 --> 00:27:49.440
<v Speaker 2>holy fuck, Okay.

542
00:27:49.559 --> 00:27:51.119
<v Speaker 1>I know, because I don't think they were really been

543
00:27:51.200 --> 00:27:53.960
<v Speaker 1>tracking that, Like they probably know which twenty were in there,

544
00:27:54.000 --> 00:27:55.400
<v Speaker 1>like which hotel staff.

545
00:27:55.079 --> 00:27:58.039
<v Speaker 2>Are in there, Like yeah, like it's Steve the bellhop

546
00:27:58.079 --> 00:28:00.480
<v Speaker 2>who's been here for a week. He's up there for

547
00:28:01.039 --> 00:28:01.720
<v Speaker 2>who knows what.

548
00:28:01.960 --> 00:28:04.480
<v Speaker 1>Well, everyone's frantic and I'm sure all the hotel stuff

549
00:28:04.599 --> 00:28:06.440
<v Speaker 1>was like frantic and trying to help and.

550
00:28:06.480 --> 00:28:08.720
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, you know, don't get me wrong, I'm just.

551
00:28:08.680 --> 00:28:11.359
<v Speaker 1>Well, yeah, I'm not saying but it's just a shitty situation.

552
00:28:11.559 --> 00:28:15.039
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, who knows who's gone and if they haven't secured

553
00:28:15.079 --> 00:28:18.200
<v Speaker 2>it properly, like someone just wandering in there for weird

554
00:28:18.240 --> 00:28:20.400
<v Speaker 2>odds and ends reasons that probably people don't even know

555
00:28:20.400 --> 00:28:22.039
<v Speaker 2>what they're being they're actually in there.

556
00:28:22.079 --> 00:28:24.759
<v Speaker 1>No, yeah, so they know.

557
00:28:24.720 --> 00:28:27.400
<v Speaker 2>Probably about twenty people. There's probably twenty.

558
00:28:27.319 --> 00:28:30.720
<v Speaker 1>Plus, Yeah, because lot of times you what's the word,

559
00:28:30.720 --> 00:28:35.079
<v Speaker 1>But if you're like in the wrong, you Oh, I

560
00:28:35.079 --> 00:28:37.640
<v Speaker 1>can't think of the word, but you lesser it, lesser

561
00:28:37.799 --> 00:28:41.160
<v Speaker 1>the blow than it actually should be. Right, Oh, that's

562
00:28:41.200 --> 00:28:41.599
<v Speaker 1>the word.

563
00:28:41.880 --> 00:28:43.680
<v Speaker 2>Oh, I know what you're trying to say, but I

564
00:28:43.720 --> 00:28:45.880
<v Speaker 2>don't know if I know the word you're thinking about all.

565
00:28:45.880 --> 00:28:46.279
<v Speaker 1>I don't know.

566
00:28:46.519 --> 00:28:49.400
<v Speaker 2>You're trying to like say like oh, instead of being

567
00:28:49.440 --> 00:28:52.359
<v Speaker 2>like I only did this.

568
00:28:52.559 --> 00:28:54.759
<v Speaker 1>I only or I spent five hundred bucks, but then

569
00:28:54.759 --> 00:28:55.920
<v Speaker 1>you actually spend a thousand.

570
00:28:56.359 --> 00:28:58.839
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so when you come home from a shopping spree,

571
00:28:58.960 --> 00:29:01.039
<v Speaker 2>I didn't spend that much. She was only five hundred bucks.

572
00:29:01.079 --> 00:29:03.200
<v Speaker 2>Look at the receipts. It was actually a thousand. Yeah,

573
00:29:03.240 --> 00:29:05.160
<v Speaker 2>there you go. That's a good analogy.

574
00:29:06.440 --> 00:29:10.279
<v Speaker 1>Moving on, Jerry and Kate tried to take matters into

575
00:29:10.279 --> 00:29:13.200
<v Speaker 1>their own hands, and they tried to keep the momentum

576
00:29:13.279 --> 00:29:17.039
<v Speaker 1>building on Madeleine's case. Jerry's plan was to use the

577
00:29:17.079 --> 00:29:20.240
<v Speaker 1>media to keep the public aware of his daughter's disappearance

578
00:29:20.720 --> 00:29:23.319
<v Speaker 1>so the tips and leads could keep on coming. But

579
00:29:23.440 --> 00:29:27.359
<v Speaker 1>what happened was something rarely seen before. Jerry hired a

580
00:29:27.400 --> 00:29:30.880
<v Speaker 1>team of pr consultants from Britain and had them come

581
00:29:31.680 --> 00:29:36.920
<v Speaker 1>to Priya doll loose. Most said that wrong. The constant

582
00:29:36.960 --> 00:29:40.240
<v Speaker 1>media attention worked in keeping the public talking about and

583
00:29:40.319 --> 00:29:43.160
<v Speaker 1>searching for Madeline. That's good, but it created a lot

584
00:29:43.200 --> 00:29:46.480
<v Speaker 1>of tension between the McCanns and the local police. The

585
00:29:46.480 --> 00:29:50.240
<v Speaker 1>police argued that the constant media presence and the journalists

586
00:29:50.279 --> 00:29:53.079
<v Speaker 1>in and around the area were getting in the way

587
00:29:53.079 --> 00:29:56.519
<v Speaker 1>of the investigation. We're actually hurting Madeleine's case.

588
00:29:57.319 --> 00:29:58.680
<v Speaker 2>I have a counter argument for that.

589
00:29:59.119 --> 00:30:04.720
<v Speaker 1>What invest Oh you went there? Hey, you went there.

590
00:30:06.039 --> 00:30:09.599
<v Speaker 1>The tension ended up rising so high that the British

591
00:30:10.000 --> 00:30:13.720
<v Speaker 1>government ended up sending its own press officers to try

592
00:30:13.720 --> 00:30:17.759
<v Speaker 1>to manage the situation. But the outporth support from the

593
00:30:17.759 --> 00:30:23.160
<v Speaker 1>public was huge already. By May fifteenth, only twelve days

594
00:30:23.240 --> 00:30:26.839
<v Speaker 1>after Madeline had gone missing, the mccans had created a

595
00:30:26.880 --> 00:30:32.359
<v Speaker 1>fund named Madelin's Fund, Leaving No Stone unturned. The fund's

596
00:30:32.400 --> 00:30:35.799
<v Speaker 1>website had over fifty eight million hits on the first

597
00:30:35.839 --> 00:30:37.079
<v Speaker 1>two days it was live.

598
00:30:37.319 --> 00:30:38.000
<v Speaker 2>Holy shit.

599
00:30:38.359 --> 00:30:40.359
<v Speaker 1>And the fund created a place where people could go

600
00:30:40.400 --> 00:30:44.079
<v Speaker 1>make donations and support the search. Wow, so that is

601
00:30:44.119 --> 00:30:49.119
<v Speaker 1>pretty impressive, no kidding. The fund ended up paying for

602
00:30:49.160 --> 00:30:52.839
<v Speaker 1>the McCanns to follow leads in other Portuguese cities, and

603
00:30:52.960 --> 00:30:58.119
<v Speaker 1>even sent them to Halland Germany and Morocco. By May thirtieth,

604
00:30:58.240 --> 00:31:01.640
<v Speaker 1>the McCanns were flown out to where they got to

605
00:31:01.640 --> 00:31:05.599
<v Speaker 1>meet the pope. But this was was all of this

606
00:31:05.759 --> 00:31:08.359
<v Speaker 1>getting them anywhere and finding Madeline.

607
00:31:08.440 --> 00:31:10.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I was just wondering, Okay, what does that have

608
00:31:10.759 --> 00:31:11.759
<v Speaker 2>to do with finding their kid?

609
00:31:11.960 --> 00:31:15.200
<v Speaker 1>I'm not really sure. But they were religious, so maybe

610
00:31:15.240 --> 00:31:17.799
<v Speaker 1>they were thinking, like by going and meeting them and

611
00:31:17.839 --> 00:31:20.079
<v Speaker 1>like in some sort of religious ceremony of.

612
00:31:20.039 --> 00:31:23.599
<v Speaker 2>Sorts like that could prayers and blessings or something. Yeah, okay, okay,

613
00:31:23.599 --> 00:31:24.440
<v Speaker 2>fair enough.

614
00:31:24.440 --> 00:31:26.480
<v Speaker 1>So I don't think I had said in there that

615
00:31:26.480 --> 00:31:31.119
<v Speaker 1>they were like had religious beliefs. The police believed they

616
00:31:31.119 --> 00:31:34.720
<v Speaker 1>found the answers and it was all thanks to Jane

617
00:31:35.200 --> 00:31:40.279
<v Speaker 1>Tanner's sighting. About one hundred and thirty seven meters east

618
00:31:40.359 --> 00:31:44.000
<v Speaker 1>from five A lived thirty four year old Robert Marat,

619
00:31:44.519 --> 00:31:48.200
<v Speaker 1>and he was a man that police knew well. Robert

620
00:31:48.279 --> 00:31:51.720
<v Speaker 1>was a British property consulted and when he heard about

621
00:31:51.720 --> 00:31:54.319
<v Speaker 1>what had happened just down the street from him, he

622
00:31:54.440 --> 00:31:58.759
<v Speaker 1>jumped at the opportunity to help. Robert translated for the police,

623
00:31:59.039 --> 00:32:01.799
<v Speaker 1>doing everything he could to get them and the McCann's

624
00:32:01.839 --> 00:32:05.480
<v Speaker 1>closer to finding their daughter. That was until he was

625
00:32:05.559 --> 00:32:10.559
<v Speaker 1>named an official suspect in Madeleine's disappearance. All of this

626
00:32:10.640 --> 00:32:14.599
<v Speaker 1>stemmed from him catching the description of the man Jane

627
00:32:14.599 --> 00:32:18.240
<v Speaker 1>had seen heading east carrying a child that night, and

628
00:32:18.279 --> 00:32:22.000
<v Speaker 1>because a journalist reported to the police that Robert had

629
00:32:22.039 --> 00:32:27.519
<v Speaker 1>been asking about the investigation. So he basically kind of

630
00:32:27.559 --> 00:32:32.519
<v Speaker 1>matched that description and he was asking questions. Yeah, so,

631
00:32:33.039 --> 00:32:35.039
<v Speaker 1>and he was known for police I guess right.

632
00:32:35.160 --> 00:32:40.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, fair enough. I mean it's reasonable suspicion at that point,

633
00:32:40.799 --> 00:32:41.839
<v Speaker 2>so I can't argue that.

634
00:32:42.240 --> 00:32:47.119
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. So his home was searched, he and two of

635
00:32:47.119 --> 00:32:51.400
<v Speaker 1>his friends were interviewed, but the police found nothing. Robert

636
00:32:51.480 --> 00:32:53.519
<v Speaker 1>said that he'd offered to help because he had a

637
00:32:53.640 --> 00:32:56.720
<v Speaker 1>daughter in England around the same age as Madeline, but

638
00:32:56.839 --> 00:33:00.319
<v Speaker 1>the police and the public were still not convinced he

639
00:33:00.480 --> 00:33:02.519
<v Speaker 1>was publicly slandered.

640
00:33:02.839 --> 00:33:04.119
<v Speaker 2>Oh fantastic.

641
00:33:04.880 --> 00:33:08.599
<v Speaker 1>His friend's car was torched and spray painted on the

642
00:33:08.640 --> 00:33:12.319
<v Speaker 1>pavement next to it read FLA I believe it's pronounced,

643
00:33:12.440 --> 00:33:17.279
<v Speaker 1>which says speak like it means speak yes. So the

644
00:33:17.319 --> 00:33:20.599
<v Speaker 1>next thing anyone knew, the friends the McCanns had been

645
00:33:20.599 --> 00:33:25.680
<v Speaker 1>on holiday with remembered feeling suspicious of Robert, and witnesses

646
00:33:25.759 --> 00:33:30.839
<v Speaker 1>replacing him at the scene too. Years later, police confirmed

647
00:33:30.880 --> 00:33:33.440
<v Speaker 1>the identity of the man Jane had seen that night.

648
00:33:34.319 --> 00:33:38.720
<v Speaker 1>He was another British holiday maker. I don't know is

649
00:33:38.759 --> 00:33:40.640
<v Speaker 1>that the right word, British holidaymaker?

650
00:33:41.519 --> 00:33:43.400
<v Speaker 2>That sounds like when of sand his little elves.

651
00:33:43.559 --> 00:33:45.759
<v Speaker 1>I don't know, on holiday. I don't know why I

652
00:33:45.759 --> 00:33:46.319
<v Speaker 1>have that in there.

653
00:33:46.400 --> 00:33:49.400
<v Speaker 2>Okay, he was another British dude on holidays.

654
00:33:49.480 --> 00:33:53.599
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, who was on his way to his apartment after

655
00:33:53.680 --> 00:33:57.480
<v Speaker 1>picking up his daughter from the hotel's night care. So

656
00:33:57.559 --> 00:34:01.640
<v Speaker 1>there you go, called it. Robert and his friends were

657
00:34:01.720 --> 00:34:06.799
<v Speaker 1>vindicated and managed to sue for like compensation. Good They

658
00:34:06.839 --> 00:34:10.840
<v Speaker 1>collected hundreds of thousands of pounds, but only after and

659
00:34:10.920 --> 00:34:14.800
<v Speaker 1>during years of abuse and suspicions from both the locals

660
00:34:14.880 --> 00:34:19.400
<v Speaker 1>and the general public. But if Robert hadn't take hadn't

661
00:34:19.440 --> 00:34:23.119
<v Speaker 1>taken Madeline, then what had happened to her? We're no

662
00:34:23.239 --> 00:34:24.400
<v Speaker 1>closer again, right.

663
00:34:24.320 --> 00:34:26.719
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, exactly. But I do want to just say, like

664
00:34:27.199 --> 00:34:29.719
<v Speaker 2>the police being like, oh, you're interfering with our investigation,

665
00:34:29.800 --> 00:34:34.480
<v Speaker 2>and their investigation leads to just slandering someone who's completely innocent.

666
00:34:34.960 --> 00:34:38.920
<v Speaker 1>Well it's really shitty because that guy that he had,

667
00:34:39.559 --> 00:34:41.880
<v Speaker 1>from what we know, he had the peers of intentions

668
00:34:41.880 --> 00:34:42.639
<v Speaker 1>of just helping.

669
00:34:42.920 --> 00:34:43.599
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, exactly.

670
00:34:43.760 --> 00:34:46.679
<v Speaker 1>And sometimes, I mean, this is so bad, but just

671
00:34:46.679 --> 00:34:48.599
<v Speaker 1>like the world we live in, sometimes you almost don't

672
00:34:48.599 --> 00:34:49.440
<v Speaker 1>want to help.

673
00:34:49.559 --> 00:34:52.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, because then you're implicated, you're part of it, and

674
00:34:52.320 --> 00:34:56.039
<v Speaker 2>you can get hurt or whatever to perform and you're

675
00:34:56.440 --> 00:34:58.000
<v Speaker 2>in the limelight or line of fire.

676
00:34:58.440 --> 00:35:02.599
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, because he had that for years. Right, Yeah, this

677
00:35:02.800 --> 00:35:05.480
<v Speaker 1>is like his name just being shit.

678
00:35:06.039 --> 00:35:08.920
<v Speaker 2>Oh, I'm sure, and I'm sure his reputation even after

679
00:35:08.960 --> 00:35:12.800
<v Speaker 2>the fact, was still tarnished quite a bit. Yeah, because

680
00:35:12.840 --> 00:35:17.880
<v Speaker 2>people don't generally turn around and bring the sunshine your

681
00:35:17.920 --> 00:35:22.760
<v Speaker 2>way when you're proved innocent. Right, it seems to be like, oh, yeah,

682
00:35:22.760 --> 00:35:25.400
<v Speaker 2>I know, he was like an outcast for a long time.

683
00:35:25.440 --> 00:35:27.360
<v Speaker 2>We're just going to still continue to avoid him, especially

684
00:35:27.360 --> 00:35:29.199
<v Speaker 2>because we feel bad because we were the one are

685
00:35:29.280 --> 00:35:32.559
<v Speaker 2>part of the whole like slandering group of people. Yeah,

686
00:35:32.599 --> 00:35:35.440
<v Speaker 2>you know, so he's just still an outcast, still name tarnished,

687
00:35:35.480 --> 00:35:39.320
<v Speaker 2>and trying to live a normal life.

688
00:35:39.519 --> 00:35:41.519
<v Speaker 1>From what I read, a lot of the reports did

689
00:35:41.519 --> 00:35:45.360
<v Speaker 1>say he kind of from numerous means, got a lot

690
00:35:45.360 --> 00:35:50.320
<v Speaker 1>of money because like articles from different new sources and stuff, right,

691
00:35:50.400 --> 00:35:53.400
<v Speaker 1>Like he was able to kind of get some compensation

692
00:35:53.519 --> 00:35:55.360
<v Speaker 1>from that. So hopefully he at least ended up with

693
00:35:55.760 --> 00:35:57.159
<v Speaker 1>a chunk of change. I guess.

694
00:35:57.280 --> 00:36:00.960
<v Speaker 2>I just hope that he monetary value or whatever aside.

695
00:36:01.000 --> 00:36:04.239
<v Speaker 2>I just hope he has a normal life. Yeah, I

696
00:36:04.280 --> 00:36:08.000
<v Speaker 2>hope this did not affect him negatively mentally and all

697
00:36:08.000 --> 00:36:09.719
<v Speaker 2>that sort of stuff. I hope that just today he's

698
00:36:09.800 --> 00:36:11.840
<v Speaker 2>just doing good. That's what I hope.

699
00:36:11.920 --> 00:36:17.679
<v Speaker 1>Oh man, oh man, Okay, where are we here? So

700
00:36:17.719 --> 00:36:22.280
<v Speaker 1>by then the police opinion of the McCanns had actually shifted,

701
00:36:22.960 --> 00:36:26.159
<v Speaker 1>and they asked for British sniffer dogs to come be

702
00:36:26.280 --> 00:36:30.360
<v Speaker 1>brought to the apartment to search. Sniffer dogs. That sounds funny, Hey,

703
00:36:30.480 --> 00:36:34.039
<v Speaker 1>I think that's what they're called. The one dog was

704
00:36:34.119 --> 00:36:36.920
<v Speaker 1>trained to give a reaction to the smell of human

705
00:36:36.960 --> 00:36:40.559
<v Speaker 1>blood and the other to the scent of a human cadaver,

706
00:36:41.719 --> 00:36:44.519
<v Speaker 1>and they came back with the results that blew this

707
00:36:44.639 --> 00:36:48.199
<v Speaker 1>case wide open. It's interesting. I can't remember which dog

708
00:36:48.280 --> 00:36:50.920
<v Speaker 1>was witch, but one of them, oh man, I don't

709
00:36:50.920 --> 00:36:53.280
<v Speaker 1>know which one, but one of them, when they got

710
00:36:53.280 --> 00:36:55.079
<v Speaker 1>what they were supposed to be like like, barked and

711
00:36:55.119 --> 00:36:57.199
<v Speaker 1>they only barked kind of when they.

712
00:36:57.280 --> 00:37:00.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, give their sign or whatever. But I don't know

713
00:37:00.480 --> 00:37:03.280
<v Speaker 2>the cadaver one I'm sure. I mean, there's there's a

714
00:37:03.360 --> 00:37:06.880
<v Speaker 2>distinct smell of death, but blood. I mean, what if

715
00:37:06.920 --> 00:37:09.960
<v Speaker 2>someone was just like cutting an ingrown toenail and like

716
00:37:10.400 --> 00:37:12.519
<v Speaker 2>drop of blood goes beside the bed or something.

717
00:37:12.559 --> 00:37:14.480
<v Speaker 1>You lose a lot of blood from that.

718
00:37:14.480 --> 00:37:16.559
<v Speaker 2>Cut your finger in the kitchen or stub your toe

719
00:37:16.639 --> 00:37:18.280
<v Speaker 2>out in the bathroom hall or like.

720
00:37:18.599 --> 00:37:22.039
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, the cadaver would kind of maybe show a bit more.

721
00:37:22.079 --> 00:37:24.360
<v Speaker 2>I guess, yeah, that one I could see. But I'm

722
00:37:24.599 --> 00:37:28.159
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I'm uneducated in sniffer dogs. Maybe it has

723
00:37:28.199 --> 00:37:30.159
<v Speaker 2>to be a whole lot of amount for the dog

724
00:37:30.239 --> 00:37:32.440
<v Speaker 2>to actually like pick up on it or something. I

725
00:37:32.440 --> 00:37:32.800
<v Speaker 2>don't know.

726
00:37:34.360 --> 00:37:37.440
<v Speaker 1>The other dog that's reaction, I think would just like

727
00:37:37.559 --> 00:37:40.119
<v Speaker 1>sit and stare at the spot. So they had like

728
00:37:40.159 --> 00:37:43.639
<v Speaker 1>different trainings for that. But very interesting. I think that

729
00:37:43.639 --> 00:37:45.639
<v Speaker 1>would be such an interesting job to work with one

730
00:37:45.679 --> 00:37:46.519
<v Speaker 1>of those dogs.

731
00:37:46.760 --> 00:37:49.840
<v Speaker 2>Anything involving dogs, you're just like, sign me the fuck

732
00:37:49.880 --> 00:37:50.480
<v Speaker 2>pretty much.

733
00:37:50.519 --> 00:37:52.519
<v Speaker 1>The other day, I think I told her friend. I

734
00:37:52.559 --> 00:37:54.199
<v Speaker 1>was like, we should open a candle, Ben and I

735
00:37:54.239 --> 00:37:56.599
<v Speaker 1>should open a candle And she was like, with all

736
00:37:56.679 --> 00:37:59.039
<v Speaker 1>your free time, hey yeah, no, I was like, we'd

737
00:37:59.079 --> 00:38:03.920
<v Speaker 1>be really good at it though, but no, so both

738
00:38:04.039 --> 00:38:08.039
<v Speaker 1>dogs alerted since behind the sofa in the living room

739
00:38:08.079 --> 00:38:12.519
<v Speaker 1>of the apartment. They also detected something on the car

740
00:38:12.679 --> 00:38:16.920
<v Speaker 1>the McCanns had rented, But the McCanns had rented this

741
00:38:17.039 --> 00:38:23.719
<v Speaker 1>car a few weeks after Madeline had disappeared, and it

742
00:38:23.800 --> 00:38:29.519
<v Speaker 1>was something was detected on Madeline's cuddle cat toy. So

743
00:38:29.599 --> 00:38:33.559
<v Speaker 1>the very next day the Portuguese press began running stories

744
00:38:33.599 --> 00:38:37.519
<v Speaker 1>about how Jerry and Kate had probably killed Madeleine and

745
00:38:37.599 --> 00:38:40.280
<v Speaker 1>tried to cover it up. But that was at the

746
00:38:40.400 --> 00:38:42.880
<v Speaker 1>end of July and they were already printing what was

747
00:38:42.920 --> 00:38:47.159
<v Speaker 1>considered old news because by the beginning of June, the

748
00:38:47.199 --> 00:38:51.159
<v Speaker 1>international press had turned on the mccans. Do you remember this?

749
00:38:51.320 --> 00:38:52.920
<v Speaker 1>I feel like I remember this happening.

750
00:38:53.239 --> 00:38:56.039
<v Speaker 2>I don't, but I'm I'm kind of wavering on some

751
00:38:56.159 --> 00:38:59.079
<v Speaker 2>of the stuff with the dogs. It seems like a

752
00:39:01.000 --> 00:39:05.480
<v Speaker 2>I don't know, not a foolproof thing, almost like a polygraph.

753
00:39:05.760 --> 00:39:08.719
<v Speaker 2>It's a quasi type science because you're telling me, okay,

754
00:39:08.960 --> 00:39:12.599
<v Speaker 2>they had a positive response on a rental car. A

755
00:39:12.639 --> 00:39:16.039
<v Speaker 2>rental car. How many other people use this car prior

756
00:39:16.079 --> 00:39:19.159
<v Speaker 2>to them? What else happened in this car? As far

757
00:39:19.239 --> 00:39:21.239
<v Speaker 2>as I'm concerned that one should be out the window.

758
00:39:21.760 --> 00:39:25.679
<v Speaker 1>Well I think they had even said like Madaline's scent

759
00:39:25.800 --> 00:39:28.800
<v Speaker 1>of sorts could have been like on the or no,

760
00:39:28.800 --> 00:39:31.239
<v Speaker 1>none on them. That must not have worked because the luggage,

761
00:39:32.320 --> 00:39:34.559
<v Speaker 1>her luggage would probably not have been in there. This

762
00:39:34.639 --> 00:39:36.880
<v Speaker 1>car was rented after so never mind take that out.

763
00:39:37.280 --> 00:39:41.159
<v Speaker 2>But this is and then the toy. So we're talking

764
00:39:41.559 --> 00:39:45.199
<v Speaker 2>blood and deceased, right, I'm pretty sure they wouldn't have

765
00:39:45.239 --> 00:39:50.400
<v Speaker 2>a deceased child holding the toy. A blood maybe and

766
00:39:50.519 --> 00:39:52.880
<v Speaker 2>kids scrape their knees who knows what, and they could

767
00:39:52.920 --> 00:39:57.079
<v Speaker 2>get on there, no problem, totally a couch again blood,

768
00:39:57.119 --> 00:39:58.960
<v Speaker 2>who knows and get on a couch easy enough. What

769
00:39:59.000 --> 00:40:01.039
<v Speaker 2>if there's a dead mouse in the wall behind the

770
00:40:01.039 --> 00:40:02.159
<v Speaker 2>couch or something.

771
00:40:02.320 --> 00:40:05.239
<v Speaker 1>Or someone could have passed away in that that apartment

772
00:40:05.400 --> 00:40:08.360
<v Speaker 1>or something. We have done cases where the dogs have

773
00:40:08.480 --> 00:40:09.159
<v Speaker 1>gotten it wrong.

774
00:40:09.400 --> 00:40:13.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, exactly, And I'm making up different possibilities and what

775
00:40:14.000 --> 00:40:15.679
<v Speaker 2>the dogs are actually hitting on. What did they do

776
00:40:15.760 --> 00:40:18.920
<v Speaker 2>just straight up get it wrong? Yeah, I don't know.

777
00:40:19.079 --> 00:40:22.920
<v Speaker 2>I don't I'm not sold on that at all. Yeah,

778
00:40:23.480 --> 00:40:24.679
<v Speaker 2>especially the rental car one.

779
00:40:24.679 --> 00:40:26.719
<v Speaker 1>That one's just like, it's far fetched.

780
00:40:26.920 --> 00:40:29.920
<v Speaker 2>There's way too many variables in that situation as far

781
00:40:29.960 --> 00:40:30.639
<v Speaker 2>as I'm concerned.

782
00:40:30.880 --> 00:40:36.519
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. So, German, Portuguese, and British papers had been publishing

783
00:40:36.559 --> 00:40:40.760
<v Speaker 1>stories suggesting that Jerry and Kate had had something to

784
00:40:40.760 --> 00:40:44.440
<v Speaker 1>do with their daughter's disappearance. Some suggested that the whole

785
00:40:44.480 --> 00:40:48.880
<v Speaker 1>group were a group of swingers and they all actively

786
00:40:48.920 --> 00:40:52.079
<v Speaker 1>sedated their children so that they could party undisturbed.

787
00:40:53.000 --> 00:40:53.519
<v Speaker 2>Okay.

788
00:40:54.079 --> 00:40:57.039
<v Speaker 1>Some suggested that Madaline had died of a result of

789
00:40:57.079 --> 00:40:59.800
<v Speaker 1>the sedation, and that was why the whole group was

790
00:40:59.800 --> 00:41:03.760
<v Speaker 1>work working so hard to cover things up. These claims

791
00:41:03.760 --> 00:41:07.880
<v Speaker 1>were somewhat backed up when the Portuguese police shared stories

792
00:41:07.920 --> 00:41:13.840
<v Speaker 1>about the remaining McCann children. According to investigators, the twins

793
00:41:13.880 --> 00:41:17.199
<v Speaker 1>had stayed asleep all through the night, even when the

794
00:41:17.400 --> 00:41:19.960
<v Speaker 1>entire room had turned into a crime scene and people

795
00:41:19.960 --> 00:41:26.000
<v Speaker 1>were in and out. Kids can sleep through like extensive things, though,

796
00:41:26.199 --> 00:41:28.679
<v Speaker 1>and they not. They can surprising things.

797
00:41:28.719 --> 00:41:33.639
<v Speaker 2>I feel like, yes, now, if kid falls asleep, they

798
00:41:33.760 --> 00:41:36.599
<v Speaker 2>have a weird ability. It seems like some not all kids,

799
00:41:37.159 --> 00:41:39.880
<v Speaker 2>not all kids, but they have a surprising ability to

800
00:41:40.000 --> 00:41:41.360
<v Speaker 2>just sleep through anything.

801
00:41:42.800 --> 00:41:45.679
<v Speaker 1>Like sometimes I feel late, Okay, lately I've been having

802
00:41:45.679 --> 00:41:49.679
<v Speaker 1>sleeping issues, which is a new thing, and I sometimes

803
00:41:49.679 --> 00:41:51.119
<v Speaker 1>just think about how when you were a kid, like

804
00:41:51.199 --> 00:41:56.119
<v Speaker 1>you just like literally get the best fucking sleeps ever,

805
00:41:57.039 --> 00:41:59.159
<v Speaker 1>Like you just don't wake up and you just actually

806
00:41:59.159 --> 00:42:01.079
<v Speaker 1>feel rested when you wake up in the morning, and.

807
00:42:01.039 --> 00:42:04.320
<v Speaker 2>Shit, yeah, and then you get older and you're just like,

808
00:42:04.639 --> 00:42:07.119
<v Speaker 2>why does everything hurt? And why can't I fall asleep

809
00:42:07.119 --> 00:42:09.480
<v Speaker 2>and get rested? Yeah, And even when you do fall

810
00:42:09.519 --> 00:42:11.719
<v Speaker 2>asleep and get rested, you wake up with a new

811
00:42:11.760 --> 00:42:15.119
<v Speaker 2>invigoration of tiredness still looming over you.

812
00:42:16.440 --> 00:42:21.960
<v Speaker 1>Adult life out. The police also publicly asked why Kate

813
00:42:22.039 --> 00:42:25.280
<v Speaker 1>had discovered that one of her children had gone missing

814
00:42:25.880 --> 00:42:29.559
<v Speaker 1>and then immediately left after or left her other two

815
00:42:29.639 --> 00:42:32.599
<v Speaker 1>children in the room to go and alert the others.

816
00:42:33.360 --> 00:42:36.280
<v Speaker 1>That was something she was questioned about, like why didn't

817
00:42:36.280 --> 00:42:39.679
<v Speaker 1>she just shout out to them or phone them on

818
00:42:39.760 --> 00:42:41.639
<v Speaker 1>their cellphone or something.

819
00:42:41.480 --> 00:42:43.440
<v Speaker 2>Because they were just right there across the street and

820
00:42:43.480 --> 00:42:46.079
<v Speaker 2>she wanted to and get their help immediately, and she's panicking.

821
00:42:46.119 --> 00:42:53.000
<v Speaker 1>That's why she wasn't thinking clearly. So Jane, Matthew, and

822
00:42:53.079 --> 00:42:55.760
<v Speaker 1>the two parents, so four of the nine adults were

823
00:42:55.760 --> 00:42:59.320
<v Speaker 1>being questioned in regards to some of their behavior. Jane,

824
00:42:59.360 --> 00:43:02.800
<v Speaker 1>who could have allegedly made up her observation altogether of

825
00:43:02.800 --> 00:43:06.599
<v Speaker 1>spotting a man carrying a young child. Matthew could have

826
00:43:06.679 --> 00:43:09.159
<v Speaker 1>volunteered to check on the children at nine point thirty

827
00:43:09.159 --> 00:43:13.280
<v Speaker 1>because he had ulterior motives and actually handed Madeline out

828
00:43:13.320 --> 00:43:18.199
<v Speaker 1>to someone on the streets. Jerry for intentionally misdirecting police

829
00:43:18.239 --> 00:43:23.280
<v Speaker 1>by giving contradictory statements and Kate's cries of they've taken

830
00:43:23.360 --> 00:43:27.880
<v Speaker 1>her were intentional in order to point the investigator investigators

831
00:43:27.880 --> 00:43:31.000
<v Speaker 1>towards a kidnapping rather than a murder.

832
00:43:33.360 --> 00:43:37.480
<v Speaker 2>No, on that one. I'm sorry. If an investigation is occurring,

833
00:43:37.599 --> 00:43:41.840
<v Speaker 2>you should not assume that the parent knows exactly what happened,

834
00:43:41.920 --> 00:43:44.519
<v Speaker 2>or anyone knows exactly what happens. You start from square one.

835
00:43:45.119 --> 00:43:46.400
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, exactly.

836
00:43:46.599 --> 00:43:50.679
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's solely on investigators, even if she was doing

837
00:43:50.679 --> 00:43:54.159
<v Speaker 2>that or not, just say yeah.

838
00:43:55.039 --> 00:43:58.000
<v Speaker 1>But then there were so many reports to that basically,

839
00:43:58.719 --> 00:44:01.039
<v Speaker 1>I mean, there was a lot of reports actually about

840
00:44:01.079 --> 00:44:03.519
<v Speaker 1>the parents and a lot I think in a lot

841
00:44:03.559 --> 00:44:07.480
<v Speaker 1>of interviews and stuff, they like they portrayed themselves pretty well,

842
00:44:09.679 --> 00:44:12.320
<v Speaker 1>but they were also being like advised to as well

843
00:44:12.360 --> 00:44:15.880
<v Speaker 1>because they didn't. They were kind of saying like, don't

844
00:44:15.880 --> 00:44:18.320
<v Speaker 1>show like your fear, your emotion to the person that

845
00:44:18.440 --> 00:44:22.079
<v Speaker 1>has potentially kidnapped your kid, right, Yeah. And then also

846
00:44:22.079 --> 00:44:25.880
<v Speaker 1>with them being doctors, like I don't know, I feel

847
00:44:25.920 --> 00:44:28.719
<v Speaker 1>like doctors lots of times they are all like delivering

848
00:44:28.760 --> 00:44:32.039
<v Speaker 1>bad news and dealing with like really bad shit often

849
00:44:32.079 --> 00:44:35.199
<v Speaker 1>that they may have like a really good coping mechanism

850
00:44:35.679 --> 00:44:37.880
<v Speaker 1>probably right to like not show stuff.

851
00:44:38.000 --> 00:44:40.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, they see death and sad people and like say,

852
00:44:40.920 --> 00:44:44.360
<v Speaker 2>delivering these news all the time, so they probably have

853
00:44:44.760 --> 00:44:48.079
<v Speaker 2>that kind of numbness to it a little bit already

854
00:44:48.079 --> 00:44:49.360
<v Speaker 2>inherently built into them.

855
00:44:49.360 --> 00:44:52.760
<v Speaker 1>Like it's their own kid, so it's different. Yeah, sure,

856
00:44:53.119 --> 00:44:55.840
<v Speaker 1>but they could have a coping mechanism different than just

857
00:44:55.880 --> 00:44:57.840
<v Speaker 1>like say, you and I maybe definitely.

858
00:44:58.159 --> 00:44:59.639
<v Speaker 2>And I do want to preface this not to say

859
00:44:59.639 --> 00:45:04.280
<v Speaker 2>it it isn't possible that the parents aren't responsible. Yeah,

860
00:45:04.360 --> 00:45:05.320
<v Speaker 2>I just don't see it.

861
00:45:07.039 --> 00:45:08.800
<v Speaker 1>I know, I don't feel like I see it too.

862
00:45:08.920 --> 00:45:11.440
<v Speaker 1>But sometimes in the back of my head, I'm like, oh,

863
00:45:11.599 --> 00:45:12.119
<v Speaker 1>could they have?

864
00:45:12.400 --> 00:45:15.599
<v Speaker 2>But they could have, but what we've been presented with

865
00:45:15.719 --> 00:45:20.360
<v Speaker 2>so far, everything seems too far fetched. Yeah, now it's

866
00:45:20.400 --> 00:45:23.159
<v Speaker 2>possible that that is the truth. It's just like, if

867
00:45:23.199 --> 00:45:26.480
<v Speaker 2>that is the truth, it's like, holy fuck, that's that's

868
00:45:26.519 --> 00:45:30.599
<v Speaker 2>a very specific way and specific things, an odd, odd

869
00:45:30.599 --> 00:45:32.159
<v Speaker 2>way for it to be happening. M h.

870
00:45:33.119 --> 00:45:35.360
<v Speaker 1>I think there's only question in my mind because I

871
00:45:35.440 --> 00:45:39.320
<v Speaker 1>remember when the media had kind of turned on them,

872
00:45:39.320 --> 00:45:41.960
<v Speaker 1>and so I think that's in my mind, like just

873
00:45:42.079 --> 00:45:44.559
<v Speaker 1>hearing that and being holy crap, like could these parents

874
00:45:44.599 --> 00:45:45.440
<v Speaker 1>have done this? Right?

875
00:45:45.760 --> 00:45:48.079
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? So, I mean, also, we have to look at

876
00:45:48.119 --> 00:45:51.480
<v Speaker 2>the idea. And I'm not saying that investigators or authorities

877
00:45:51.599 --> 00:45:57.840
<v Speaker 2>or are bad individuals, but say a certain individual in

878
00:45:57.920 --> 00:46:02.840
<v Speaker 2>the investigation screw the so bad because clearly the investigation

879
00:46:02.920 --> 00:46:05.760
<v Speaker 2>didn't go how it should have in the earlier stages. Right,

880
00:46:06.639 --> 00:46:10.920
<v Speaker 2>what if to get back their own reputation or clear

881
00:46:11.000 --> 00:46:13.519
<v Speaker 2>things up, they decided to, well, they were going to

882
00:46:13.639 --> 00:46:17.039
<v Speaker 2>chase down what we all know to be the first

883
00:46:17.400 --> 00:46:20.679
<v Speaker 2>people to look at the parents, the spouse, the husband,

884
00:46:20.760 --> 00:46:23.800
<v Speaker 2>the family members. Yeah, well I screwed the Poots so bad.

885
00:46:23.880 --> 00:46:26.599
<v Speaker 2>I'm going to put the spotlight on the parents. Clearly

886
00:46:26.639 --> 00:46:29.039
<v Speaker 2>it was them, and I'm going to get my career

887
00:46:29.079 --> 00:46:32.400
<v Speaker 2>back on track by blaming them and painting them in

888
00:46:32.440 --> 00:46:33.159
<v Speaker 2>the negative light.

889
00:46:34.000 --> 00:46:37.199
<v Speaker 1>Okay, that's so interesting that you say this. So after

890
00:46:37.320 --> 00:46:40.719
<v Speaker 1>this episode's done, we're going to do another like mini episode,

891
00:46:40.719 --> 00:46:43.519
<v Speaker 1>like a post episode that we're posting in Patreon. Yep,

892
00:46:43.639 --> 00:46:47.360
<v Speaker 1>going over like nine different theories out there, and that's

893
00:46:47.440 --> 00:46:48.639
<v Speaker 1>literally one of the theories.

894
00:46:48.760 --> 00:46:49.639
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well, there we go.

895
00:46:50.039 --> 00:46:52.880
<v Speaker 1>So there you go. If you want to like divulge

896
00:46:52.880 --> 00:46:55.639
<v Speaker 1>in the theories with us, then you can do that

897
00:46:55.679 --> 00:47:01.519
<v Speaker 1>over on Patreon. Okay, So the poortraies Portuguese police announced

898
00:47:01.559 --> 00:47:05.239
<v Speaker 1>that Jerry and Kate were suspects in the case, the

899
00:47:05.320 --> 00:47:09.480
<v Speaker 1>leading theory being that they'd killed Madeline, either intentionally or

900
00:47:09.519 --> 00:47:12.960
<v Speaker 1>by accident, hid her body, and then dumped it much

901
00:47:13.039 --> 00:47:16.119
<v Speaker 1>later on when everyone was busy looking for a kidnapper.

902
00:47:19.480 --> 00:47:19.920
<v Speaker 2>Okay.

903
00:47:20.239 --> 00:47:24.039
<v Speaker 1>The McCanns ended up leaving Portugal under advice from their

904
00:47:24.119 --> 00:47:27.320
<v Speaker 1>legal team, which I'm sure was not easy, being that

905
00:47:27.360 --> 00:47:31.440
<v Speaker 1>their little girl had not been found. The Portuguese police

906
00:47:31.480 --> 00:47:34.320
<v Speaker 1>continued to leak stories to the press, and the public

907
00:47:34.400 --> 00:47:39.119
<v Speaker 1>opinion continued to divide. In October two thousand and seven,

908
00:47:39.559 --> 00:47:42.559
<v Speaker 1>only a month after the McCanns were declared as suspects

909
00:47:43.480 --> 00:47:49.039
<v Speaker 1>in the case by Chief Inspector Amriol, Amriol was removed

910
00:47:49.360 --> 00:47:54.599
<v Speaker 1>from his post as the Inquirer's coordinator. This was part

911
00:47:54.920 --> 00:47:59.280
<v Speaker 1>due in his criticism of British police investigators, saying they

912
00:47:59.320 --> 00:48:02.960
<v Speaker 1>only pursued leads in the McCann's favor and his involvement

913
00:48:03.000 --> 00:48:07.360
<v Speaker 1>in a similar case. So the disappearance of Joanna Cypriana

914
00:48:08.000 --> 00:48:11.760
<v Speaker 1>was who disappeared on August twelve, two thousand and four,

915
00:48:11.920 --> 00:48:15.960
<v Speaker 1>at eight years old. So Amriel was accused of having

916
00:48:16.039 --> 00:48:20.679
<v Speaker 1>covered up for other officers and convicted of having falsified

917
00:48:20.760 --> 00:48:25.360
<v Speaker 1>police documents in the case. He received an eighteen month

918
00:48:25.440 --> 00:48:31.079
<v Speaker 1>suspended sentence. So Joanna went missing three years earlier and

919
00:48:31.199 --> 00:48:34.280
<v Speaker 1>only seven miles from where Madeleine went missing.

920
00:48:34.760 --> 00:48:35.360
<v Speaker 2>Oh shit.

921
00:48:35.960 --> 00:48:39.480
<v Speaker 1>So like Madeleine, she is not yet to be found.

922
00:48:39.719 --> 00:48:42.320
<v Speaker 1>But at one point her mother and her uncle were

923
00:48:42.400 --> 00:48:45.320
<v Speaker 1>convicted of her murders. Who actually they were convicted of

924
00:48:45.360 --> 00:48:50.519
<v Speaker 1>her murder. Her mother later retracted her confession, saying that

925
00:48:50.599 --> 00:48:54.199
<v Speaker 1>she'd only confess because the police had beaten her during

926
00:48:54.239 --> 00:48:56.960
<v Speaker 1>her interrogation. It was apparently like a forty eight hour

927
00:48:57.039 --> 00:48:58.119
<v Speaker 1>interrogation or something.

928
00:48:58.159 --> 00:49:03.800
<v Speaker 2>Holy fuck, Oh thank you. I know that's like highly

929
00:49:03.880 --> 00:49:05.119
<v Speaker 2>illegal shit going on with that.

930
00:49:05.199 --> 00:49:08.320
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's just like I can't even want Yes, there

931
00:49:08.320 --> 00:49:12.840
<v Speaker 1>you go. So Amorel was not present during the alleged assault,

932
00:49:13.119 --> 00:49:15.760
<v Speaker 1>but that is what I believe he was accused of

933
00:49:15.760 --> 00:49:20.000
<v Speaker 1>covering up seems like a similar m to Madeleine's case too.

934
00:49:20.480 --> 00:49:23.000
<v Speaker 1>Not the police assaulting the parents per se, but a

935
00:49:23.039 --> 00:49:26.400
<v Speaker 1>young girl missing and the family being put to blame

936
00:49:26.440 --> 00:49:30.280
<v Speaker 1>by the police. Yeah, Amorel did go on to write

937
00:49:30.280 --> 00:49:34.159
<v Speaker 1>a book alleging that Madeleine had died in an accident

938
00:49:34.599 --> 00:49:37.639
<v Speaker 1>in the apartment, and then mccans went about covering it

939
00:49:37.719 --> 00:49:41.800
<v Speaker 1>up by faking a reduction. The McCanns did take legal

940
00:49:41.840 --> 00:49:43.840
<v Speaker 1>action against him and his publisher.

941
00:49:44.719 --> 00:49:48.119
<v Speaker 2>Wow, just falsifying information. There's no facts on the shit,

942
00:49:48.159 --> 00:49:48.840
<v Speaker 2>and he's just being like.

943
00:49:48.840 --> 00:49:51.199
<v Speaker 1>Really yeah, and in that book, I was like in

944
00:49:51.280 --> 00:49:53.480
<v Speaker 1>and out of courts and stuff, but like tons of

945
00:49:53.480 --> 00:49:58.440
<v Speaker 1>copies got sold, which is really fucked actually, no kidding. Yeah,

946
00:49:58.440 --> 00:50:00.159
<v Speaker 1>But then like some of the in the case, so

947
00:50:00.159 --> 00:50:03.519
<v Speaker 1>it was like, that's just freedom of speech and stuff,

948
00:50:03.519 --> 00:50:05.440
<v Speaker 1>and I'm like, actually, I don't know if it is,

949
00:50:05.480 --> 00:50:07.679
<v Speaker 1>because at the time of the investigation he was in

950
00:50:07.719 --> 00:50:10.440
<v Speaker 1>a position that shouldn't be able to just like willy

951
00:50:10.519 --> 00:50:11.840
<v Speaker 1>nilly push it out there.

952
00:50:12.039 --> 00:50:17.199
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And there's a difference between freedom of speech and slander. Yeah,

953
00:50:17.440 --> 00:50:21.639
<v Speaker 2>if you are out there publishing information in a book

954
00:50:22.639 --> 00:50:27.440
<v Speaker 2>as fact that certain people are murderers, that's going to

955
00:50:27.519 --> 00:50:32.039
<v Speaker 2>have implications on their lives. That is slandering them. Yeah,

956
00:50:32.119 --> 00:50:35.079
<v Speaker 2>so you have complete legal action to course or sorry,

957
00:50:35.199 --> 00:50:38.119
<v Speaker 2>legal course to take action against that one hundred percent.

958
00:50:38.519 --> 00:50:41.400
<v Speaker 2>If he publishes a book and he says I feel

959
00:50:41.400 --> 00:50:44.920
<v Speaker 2>they're not good people, that's different. That's a personal opinion

960
00:50:45.559 --> 00:50:48.800
<v Speaker 2>as opposed to they are murderers. Here are the facts?

961
00:50:49.760 --> 00:50:51.480
<v Speaker 2>What facts? It did not go to court.

962
00:50:52.320 --> 00:50:54.840
<v Speaker 1>I just feel like the McCanns, the parents just were

963
00:50:54.920 --> 00:50:57.960
<v Speaker 1>like drug through the mud. Hey, it sounds like like

964
00:50:58.039 --> 00:51:00.920
<v Speaker 1>it's so if I mean and just so, I mean

965
00:51:00.960 --> 00:51:05.239
<v Speaker 1>they had enough stress of their child being missing and

966
00:51:05.280 --> 00:51:08.519
<v Speaker 1>now all this additional stress just I don't know, it's

967
00:51:08.519 --> 00:51:10.239
<v Speaker 1>almost how would you even survive? Really?

968
00:51:11.119 --> 00:51:14.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's that's a good question actually.

969
00:51:14.840 --> 00:51:17.599
<v Speaker 1>So moving on. About a year later, in the summer

970
00:51:17.639 --> 00:51:21.079
<v Speaker 1>of two thousand and eight, the Portuguese Attorney General announced

971
00:51:21.119 --> 00:51:23.960
<v Speaker 1>that there was no evidence to tie the mckens to

972
00:51:24.039 --> 00:51:28.800
<v Speaker 1>Madeleine's disappearance and close the case. What followed in the

973
00:51:28.920 --> 00:51:33.000
<v Speaker 1>years after were a lot more theories, a lot more investigations,

974
00:51:33.039 --> 00:51:37.599
<v Speaker 1>but ultimately no answers. To this day, no one can

975
00:51:37.719 --> 00:51:41.159
<v Speaker 1>positively say, without a shadow of adult what happened to

976
00:51:41.199 --> 00:51:44.880
<v Speaker 1>Madeline and who did it. Though The case has been

977
00:51:44.920 --> 00:51:47.199
<v Speaker 1>in the news recently for two reasons.

978
00:51:47.400 --> 00:51:51.679
<v Speaker 2>M M wait two, I know oneas oh snap.

979
00:51:52.400 --> 00:51:55.559
<v Speaker 1>So first being with Christian Brucker, who was a German

980
00:51:56.239 --> 00:52:00.360
<v Speaker 1>national who has emerged recently as the prime suspect in

981
00:52:00.400 --> 00:52:04.519
<v Speaker 1>the disappearance of Madeleine. He was identified as a suspect

982
00:52:04.519 --> 00:52:09.480
<v Speaker 1>in twenty seventeen, and in June twenty twenty, German authorities

983
00:52:09.519 --> 00:52:14.480
<v Speaker 1>announced that they had evidence suspecting he was responsible or

984
00:52:14.480 --> 00:52:19.199
<v Speaker 1>sorry suggesting that he was responsible for Madeline's disappearance and

985
00:52:19.320 --> 00:52:24.880
<v Speaker 1>her presumed death. So they're basically saying this guy killed her. However,

986
00:52:24.960 --> 00:52:27.480
<v Speaker 1>he is yet to be convicted in connection with the case,

987
00:52:27.800 --> 00:52:33.119
<v Speaker 1>and the investigation remains ongoing. But it's very like recent.

988
00:52:33.199 --> 00:52:37.320
<v Speaker 1>He's like the most recent suspect I guess out there.

989
00:52:38.559 --> 00:52:40.719
<v Speaker 1>And it's basically just being that he was kind of

990
00:52:40.760 --> 00:52:43.719
<v Speaker 1>in the area at the time, and that he had

991
00:52:45.000 --> 00:52:49.360
<v Speaker 1>like a past record kind of of like sexually assaulting

992
00:52:49.519 --> 00:52:50.559
<v Speaker 1>tourists and like.

993
00:52:50.639 --> 00:52:54.000
<v Speaker 2>Gotcha, shit, is he by any chance really ugly and blonde?

994
00:52:55.239 --> 00:52:59.079
<v Speaker 1>Maybe? Actually is he? I don't know. I did actually

995
00:52:59.079 --> 00:53:00.760
<v Speaker 1>see a photo of him. I can't remember if he

996
00:53:00.840 --> 00:53:01.519
<v Speaker 1>was blonde or not.

997
00:53:02.440 --> 00:53:03.199
<v Speaker 2>But he was ugly.

998
00:53:04.840 --> 00:53:08.960
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, sure, yeah, yeah, let's say. Yeah, I can't like

999
00:53:09.000 --> 00:53:11.079
<v Speaker 1>I can picture his face, but I can't like picture

1000
00:53:11.079 --> 00:53:12.280
<v Speaker 1>his face, But that makes sense.

1001
00:53:12.920 --> 00:53:16.199
<v Speaker 2>I'm still just picturing some really ugly blonde dude out there,

1002
00:53:16.239 --> 00:53:17.280
<v Speaker 2>just really sad.

1003
00:53:17.519 --> 00:53:20.199
<v Speaker 1>I know, they're so sad that they just have been

1004
00:53:20.280 --> 00:53:22.239
<v Speaker 1>reported so many times as being ugly.

1005
00:53:22.400 --> 00:53:24.199
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, he's just got no friends. He's just trying to

1006
00:53:24.320 --> 00:53:27.719
<v Speaker 2>enjoy his life on vacation, and he's just people just said, yeah,

1007
00:53:27.760 --> 00:53:29.199
<v Speaker 2>I saw is an ugly blonde guy.

1008
00:53:29.440 --> 00:53:31.079
<v Speaker 1>Now he also has no friends.

1009
00:53:31.320 --> 00:53:36.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, or ugly blonde man? Oh shit, I feel so

1010
00:53:36.440 --> 00:53:37.199
<v Speaker 2>bad for him.

1011
00:53:38.239 --> 00:53:41.039
<v Speaker 1>Oh so what if he is a complete asshole? Though?

1012
00:53:41.280 --> 00:53:43.400
<v Speaker 2>What if he is the sweetest man alive?

1013
00:53:44.079 --> 00:53:49.079
<v Speaker 1>Anyway? Moving on, the second reason that this has been

1014
00:53:49.119 --> 00:53:52.760
<v Speaker 1>in the news recently is the recent claim from Julia

1015
00:53:53.159 --> 00:53:56.639
<v Speaker 1>Wendell claiming to be Madeline McCann. So is that the

1016
00:53:56.639 --> 00:53:57.199
<v Speaker 1>one you know of?

1017
00:53:57.400 --> 00:53:59.679
<v Speaker 2>Yes, I know of this one, though I didn't read

1018
00:53:59.719 --> 00:54:02.239
<v Speaker 2>many articles on it because I was not wanting to

1019
00:54:02.239 --> 00:54:04.440
<v Speaker 2>get emotionally attached. I was waiting for results.

1020
00:54:04.519 --> 00:54:06.840
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. I did go down quite a bit of a

1021
00:54:06.920 --> 00:54:10.199
<v Speaker 1>rabbit hole, actually, but I didn't really put all of

1022
00:54:10.199 --> 00:54:12.119
<v Speaker 1>that in here because I just I don't know, for

1023
00:54:12.159 --> 00:54:15.800
<v Speaker 1>many reasons. Maybe I'll talk about it more. We'll see,

1024
00:54:15.840 --> 00:54:17.519
<v Speaker 1>we'll see what I did. I actually choose to put

1025
00:54:17.559 --> 00:54:21.159
<v Speaker 1>in here. So she drummed up a huge Instagram following

1026
00:54:21.599 --> 00:54:25.719
<v Speaker 1>after creating account called I Am Madeleine MCCAINN. When I

1027
00:54:25.760 --> 00:54:29.039
<v Speaker 1>first came across this account, I actually took a screenshot

1028
00:54:29.039 --> 00:54:30.559
<v Speaker 1>I don't know if you remember, and I posted it

1029
00:54:30.599 --> 00:54:35.000
<v Speaker 1>in Patreon. The count at that time had one million followers.

1030
00:54:36.079 --> 00:54:38.519
<v Speaker 1>I do believe that it's been since like taken down

1031
00:54:39.480 --> 00:54:43.239
<v Speaker 1>and the whole time, the whole thing has ultimately turned

1032
00:54:43.519 --> 00:54:47.840
<v Speaker 1>into a disappointing mess. The DNA results revealed that Julia

1033
00:54:48.079 --> 00:54:51.800
<v Speaker 1>is not Madeline. She claims now that she never said

1034
00:54:51.840 --> 00:54:55.039
<v Speaker 1>she was Madeline McCain and used the sentence to create

1035
00:54:55.400 --> 00:54:58.920
<v Speaker 1>a nickname for an old Instagram account, which was a mistake,

1036
00:54:59.000 --> 00:55:04.559
<v Speaker 1>and now she appalledgizes for that. But ultimately I cannot

1037
00:55:04.559 --> 00:55:07.639
<v Speaker 1>even imagine the old wounds that this opened up for

1038
00:55:07.679 --> 00:55:11.840
<v Speaker 1>the McCanns. No shit, Julia's parents are hoping they can

1039
00:55:11.880 --> 00:55:15.039
<v Speaker 1>get their daughter the help she needs. She has a

1040
00:55:15.079 --> 00:55:20.360
<v Speaker 1>new Instagragram account where there are new issues being brought up,

1041
00:55:20.880 --> 00:55:25.920
<v Speaker 1>like with the self professed psychic called doctor Fia Johanson

1042
00:55:26.480 --> 00:55:31.400
<v Speaker 1>who involved herself in Julia's case kind of as her spokesperson,

1043
00:55:32.360 --> 00:55:36.079
<v Speaker 1>and I kind of seemed like it was being done

1044
00:55:36.079 --> 00:55:40.360
<v Speaker 1>for potential fame herself. But all in all, I think

1045
00:55:40.400 --> 00:55:42.679
<v Speaker 1>that she needs to just get out of the headlines

1046
00:55:43.039 --> 00:55:45.920
<v Speaker 1>at this point, because I'm not even putting her new

1047
00:55:45.960 --> 00:55:48.360
<v Speaker 1>Instagram in here. I did, like check it out, and

1048
00:55:49.599 --> 00:55:51.599
<v Speaker 1>I don't know, I don't know. That's just all I'm

1049
00:55:51.599 --> 00:55:54.559
<v Speaker 1>going to say about that. Fair enough, So older cases

1050
00:55:54.639 --> 00:55:57.480
<v Speaker 1>being brought to attention can definitely be helpful at times,

1051
00:55:59.480 --> 00:56:01.920
<v Speaker 1>I do think so, right, like, because it maybe people

1052
00:56:02.000 --> 00:56:04.800
<v Speaker 1>remember something or trigger something, right.

1053
00:56:04.920 --> 00:56:07.719
<v Speaker 2>Oh, definitely, No, it's it's better to keep.

1054
00:56:08.079 --> 00:56:11.079
<v Speaker 1>Stories alive, yes, but in the right way.

1055
00:56:11.199 --> 00:56:14.519
<v Speaker 2>In the right way, yeah. Not for personal gain or

1056
00:56:14.559 --> 00:56:19.480
<v Speaker 2>emotional gain or anything. It's I mean, it's not a

1057
00:56:19.519 --> 00:56:24.119
<v Speaker 2>story for yourself. It's not something for you to gain from,

1058
00:56:24.800 --> 00:56:27.519
<v Speaker 2>to be fair, I mean, yeah, of course, news media podcasts,

1059
00:56:27.880 --> 00:56:30.920
<v Speaker 2>there is monetary gain from it in certain aspects. However,

1060
00:56:30.960 --> 00:56:34.119
<v Speaker 2>to sit here and say I'm going to claim to

1061
00:56:34.159 --> 00:56:38.760
<v Speaker 2>be a potentially missing child or deceased individual and gain

1062
00:56:38.920 --> 00:56:41.760
<v Speaker 2>Instagram fame for it, and that is your motive, Like

1063
00:56:41.840 --> 00:56:43.119
<v Speaker 2>what the buck?

1064
00:56:43.639 --> 00:56:46.679
<v Speaker 1>And see, i'mon't even like you never know what is

1065
00:56:46.920 --> 00:56:49.760
<v Speaker 1>going on in person's mind, like like she maybe did

1066
00:56:49.800 --> 00:56:53.440
<v Speaker 1>help need help, she maybe did believe that she actually was.

1067
00:56:55.719 --> 00:56:57.760
<v Speaker 1>I know she was trying to figure out some of

1068
00:56:57.800 --> 00:57:00.280
<v Speaker 1>her past stuff and I know she did have some

1069
00:57:00.320 --> 00:57:04.239
<v Speaker 1>trauma in her past. So but still like that is

1070
00:57:04.519 --> 00:57:07.800
<v Speaker 1>I mean, that's just oh, like something you can't just

1071
00:57:07.840 --> 00:57:13.199
<v Speaker 1>be like apologized for later because just amount of oh

1072
00:57:13.280 --> 00:57:15.639
<v Speaker 1>shit that it just brought up, probably for so many people,

1073
00:57:15.760 --> 00:57:17.360
<v Speaker 1>is really really gross.

1074
00:57:17.559 --> 00:57:20.079
<v Speaker 2>I honestly think that that should be going into something

1075
00:57:20.079 --> 00:57:22.920
<v Speaker 2>like identity thefter fraud as far as I'm concerned.

1076
00:57:23.039 --> 00:57:28.119
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, So there's no shorts of information out there in

1077
00:57:28.159 --> 00:57:30.920
<v Speaker 1>regards to this case, so if you're interested in a

1078
00:57:30.920 --> 00:57:34.599
<v Speaker 1>more In March of twenty nineteen, Netflix released an eight

1079
00:57:34.639 --> 00:57:38.679
<v Speaker 1>part docu series that's titled The Disappearance of Madeleine McCain.

1080
00:57:39.599 --> 00:57:41.639
<v Speaker 1>It did renew a lot of interest in the case,

1081
00:57:41.679 --> 00:57:45.320
<v Speaker 1>but as I've said, there's unfortunately still no clear answers

1082
00:57:45.320 --> 00:57:46.760
<v Speaker 1>of what happened to Madeline.

1083
00:57:47.840 --> 00:57:48.679
<v Speaker 2>That's unfortunate.

1084
00:57:49.000 --> 00:57:50.760
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean the fact that she's just a three

1085
00:57:50.880 --> 00:57:53.679
<v Speaker 1>year old little girl, well she's basically almost four, but

1086
00:57:53.760 --> 00:57:56.639
<v Speaker 1>still huh, that is too young.

1087
00:57:57.119 --> 00:58:00.760
<v Speaker 2>Hopefully she's much older now. Yeah, hopefully she's still around

1088
00:58:00.760 --> 00:58:04.360
<v Speaker 2>and she's she's older than that.

1089
00:58:04.840 --> 00:58:07.679
<v Speaker 1>M h. And yeah, so we're about to do a

1090
00:58:07.719 --> 00:58:12.800
<v Speaker 1>post show on Patreon and there's a there's a list

1091
00:58:12.880 --> 00:58:15.480
<v Speaker 1>of just the theories and some of them do potentially

1092
00:58:15.559 --> 00:58:18.159
<v Speaker 1>involve her still being around. So yeah, we're going to

1093
00:58:18.239 --> 00:58:18.880
<v Speaker 1>dive into those.

1094
00:58:19.079 --> 00:58:21.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, we usually do a pre show where we're talking

1095
00:58:21.440 --> 00:58:24.119
<v Speaker 2>a little bit of stuff, and so a post show

1096
00:58:24.199 --> 00:58:26.119
<v Speaker 2>is a little bit different for us. We're gonna given

1097
00:58:26.119 --> 00:58:28.039
<v Speaker 2>a shot see how it works out. So head on

1098
00:58:28.079 --> 00:58:29.719
<v Speaker 2>over check it out if you want to take a look.

1099
00:58:30.000 --> 00:58:31.920
<v Speaker 2>Link is down in the description below. You can follow

1100
00:58:31.920 --> 00:58:34.199
<v Speaker 2>that link, hit us up on Patreon. Could check out

1101
00:58:34.199 --> 00:58:36.920
<v Speaker 2>all the social media's if you want, Instagram, Facebook, YouTube,

1102
00:58:36.960 --> 00:58:39.519
<v Speaker 2>you name it, and they're all about to start getting

1103
00:58:39.960 --> 00:58:42.079
<v Speaker 2>a lot more content putting up here pretty quick.

1104
00:58:42.000 --> 00:58:42.880
<v Speaker 1>A little more traction.

1105
00:58:43.280 --> 00:58:46.719
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that was a good episode though, I mean, I

1106
00:58:46.800 --> 00:58:49.760
<v Speaker 2>really do feel for Madeline, and I also feel for

1107
00:58:49.840 --> 00:58:50.880
<v Speaker 2>the ugly blonde man.

1108
00:58:50.760 --> 00:58:54.199
<v Speaker 1>Too, oh my gosh, and the parents and the parents.

1109
00:58:54.199 --> 00:58:56.440
<v Speaker 1>The parents for some reason just like break my heart

1110
00:58:56.440 --> 00:58:59.400
<v Speaker 1>a little because I just I mean, we don't have kids,

1111
00:58:59.440 --> 00:59:03.119
<v Speaker 1>but just the thought, like I mean they say, like

1112
00:59:03.159 --> 00:59:04.679
<v Speaker 1>what when you have a kid, it's like your heart's

1113
00:59:04.719 --> 00:59:08.239
<v Speaker 1>almost living outside your body, right, and then that's just

1114
00:59:08.239 --> 00:59:10.119
<v Speaker 1>being taken away, Like how do you survive?

1115
00:59:10.320 --> 00:59:14.239
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, let me think of it like that movie dragon Heart,

1116
00:59:14.280 --> 00:59:16.480
<v Speaker 2>Remember that old movie back in the day, dragon Heart.

1117
00:59:16.800 --> 00:59:18.840
<v Speaker 2>The dude needed like to survive, so he went to

1118
00:59:18.880 --> 00:59:21.199
<v Speaker 2>the dragon, the king or something like that, got a

1119
00:59:21.239 --> 00:59:23.280
<v Speaker 2>piece of his the dragon's heart, to put in his

1120
00:59:23.400 --> 00:59:26.760
<v Speaker 2>son to let him survive. And then yeah, they shared

1121
00:59:27.280 --> 00:59:29.159
<v Speaker 2>a heart, so the only way to kill one was

1122
00:59:29.199 --> 00:59:31.239
<v Speaker 2>to kill the other. So in the movie, he's like

1123
00:59:31.280 --> 00:59:34.519
<v Speaker 2>getting stabbed in the heart and as he's the son's

1124
00:59:34.519 --> 00:59:37.119
<v Speaker 2>getting stabbed later on, like the dragon's feeling the pain.

1125
00:59:37.239 --> 00:59:42.639
<v Speaker 1>And yeah, well I lost Honey today for about five minutes,

1126
00:59:42.639 --> 00:59:44.079
<v Speaker 1>and I lost was losing my ship.

1127
00:59:44.280 --> 00:59:47.320
<v Speaker 2>So our dog, Honey, our dog. Yeah no, she wasn't

1128
00:59:47.480 --> 00:59:49.199
<v Speaker 2>raging over the pantry.

1129
00:59:48.800 --> 00:59:52.039
<v Speaker 1>Because yeah, if you're new here, we have a dog

1130
00:59:52.159 --> 00:59:57.000
<v Speaker 1>named Ripley and Honey and Honey is an asshole that wow,

1131
00:59:57.239 --> 00:59:59.079
<v Speaker 1>she kind of is. I'm actually a little pissed at

1132
00:59:59.119 --> 01:00:02.199
<v Speaker 1>her today. She he gets out of the yard occasionally

1133
01:00:03.039 --> 01:00:04.400
<v Speaker 1>does which is a husky thing.

1134
01:00:04.639 --> 01:00:05.480
<v Speaker 2>She doesn't though.

1135
01:00:06.280 --> 01:00:08.519
<v Speaker 1>She gets out of the art only when Ben's not here,

1136
01:00:08.559 --> 01:00:12.280
<v Speaker 1>so it's just all me. And usually, like I notice

1137
01:00:12.360 --> 01:00:14.079
<v Speaker 1>right away and then I call her and she comes back.

1138
01:00:14.119 --> 01:00:15.800
<v Speaker 1>And today she didn't come back right away, and I

1139
01:00:15.840 --> 01:00:17.039
<v Speaker 1>kind of lost my shit a little.

1140
01:00:17.039 --> 01:00:19.239
<v Speaker 2>Actually she came back, it was just a little longer.

1141
01:00:19.320 --> 01:00:21.159
<v Speaker 2>She was a little bit farther away this time.

1142
01:00:21.760 --> 01:00:22.840
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, she's a brat.

1143
01:00:23.039 --> 01:00:24.960
<v Speaker 2>She is a brat, but she's cute, so it's okay.

1144
01:00:24.960 --> 01:00:26.199
<v Speaker 2>She makes up for it.

1145
01:00:26.440 --> 01:00:28.519
<v Speaker 1>My apologies for calling her dog an asshole.

1146
01:00:29.039 --> 01:00:33.199
<v Speaker 2>You're not sorry at all. She also abuses our animals.

1147
01:00:33.239 --> 01:00:35.840
<v Speaker 1>Oh my gosh, and you one that would know me,

1148
01:00:36.039 --> 01:00:38.840
<v Speaker 1>like what abused them with? Like too many cugs and kisses.

1149
01:00:38.960 --> 01:00:41.079
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you hug them too tight and you strangle them.

1150
01:00:41.239 --> 01:00:43.559
<v Speaker 1>Oh my gosh. I'm just obsessed with them. I can't

1151
01:00:44.039 --> 01:00:46.119
<v Speaker 1>love them enough. No, they're so cute.

1152
01:00:46.320 --> 01:00:47.119
<v Speaker 2>Look at them right now.

1153
01:00:47.760 --> 01:00:50.960
<v Speaker 1>I know they're perfect, well not perfect from like ninety

1154
01:00:51.039 --> 01:00:51.519
<v Speaker 1>nine percent.

1155
01:00:51.760 --> 01:00:56.079
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Kiwi's perfect. The cat, the dogs, I don't know.

1156
01:00:56.119 --> 01:00:57.760
<v Speaker 2>Their life is a little rough.

1157
01:00:58.440 --> 01:01:01.480
<v Speaker 1>Holy eck. Okay, on that note, thank you so much

1158
01:01:01.519 --> 01:01:04.960
<v Speaker 1>for being here and listening, and until next Tuesday.

1159
01:01:05.119 --> 01:01:08.079
<v Speaker 2>Until next Tuesday, when I'm finally getting the case that

1160
01:01:08.159 --> 01:01:10.440
<v Speaker 2>had been working on for a little while. Oh yeah,

1161
01:01:10.519 --> 01:01:10.840
<v Speaker 2>until

1162
01:01:10.880 --> 01:01:14.360
<v Speaker 1>Then, stay wicked.