WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.120 --> 00:00:09.839 Oh is Bolt, it's showtime. People thank good money to 2 00:00:09.839 --> 00:00:10.560 see this movie. 3 00:00:10.919 --> 00:00:13.560 When they go out to a theater, they want clod sodas, 4 00:00:13.880 --> 00:00:17.239 hot popcorn and no monsters in the protection booths. 5 00:00:17.359 --> 00:00:20.879 Everyone pretend podcasting isn't boring, got it off. 6 00:00:40.560 --> 00:00:43.280 What we want is to have an entertaining series. Yeah, 7 00:00:43.920 --> 00:00:45.640 with interesting characters. 8 00:00:45.759 --> 00:00:49.679 Yeah, that people like, Yeah and care about. Yeah, thank you, 9 00:00:49.679 --> 00:00:50.280 You're welcome. 10 00:00:53.920 --> 00:00:56.960 In the early days of television, there really were no 11 00:00:57.159 --> 00:01:01.320 kids shows, and for Sherry to come along puppets comedy, 12 00:01:01.880 --> 00:01:03.560 I just knew this was different. 13 00:01:03.759 --> 00:01:04.760 What's that? 14 00:01:04.760 --> 00:01:05.239 That's there? 15 00:01:05.560 --> 00:01:06.280 That's a camera. 16 00:01:08.079 --> 00:01:10.719 She made sure you wanted to love for those characters. 17 00:01:13.280 --> 00:01:16.480 Sherry was able to speak to issues controversial for a 18 00:01:16.480 --> 00:01:19.799 woman in that era. You can't be the president your 19 00:01:19.920 --> 00:01:21.480 girl as a kid. 20 00:01:21.640 --> 00:01:24.560 If you saw Sherry Lewis on TV, you fell in love. 21 00:01:25.000 --> 00:01:29.280 It was so clear I had found myself with Lamb Chop. 22 00:01:29.560 --> 00:01:31.560 After all, Lamb Chop, what am I without you? 23 00:01:32.280 --> 00:01:32.640 Nothing? 24 00:01:33.000 --> 00:01:34.480 I feel a Samurai about you. 25 00:01:35.120 --> 00:01:39.760 But there's only room for one son, and Lamb Chop 26 00:01:39.959 --> 00:01:45.319 became a big star. Mom wanted to be seen as 27 00:01:45.400 --> 00:01:47.680 more than a one trick pony, and the audience like, 28 00:01:47.840 --> 00:01:49.200 that's nice. Where's lamb Chop? 29 00:01:50.680 --> 00:01:54.280 But there was a time when people didn't want Sherry Lewis. 30 00:01:54.159 --> 00:01:55.400 When mar show was camped. 31 00:01:56.000 --> 00:01:58.159 The only time I ever went to lamp Chop and 32 00:01:58.159 --> 00:02:01.439 cried with her where she did not have a show. 33 00:02:01.719 --> 00:02:04.000 I think that was a very lonely, horrible time for her. 34 00:02:04.519 --> 00:02:07.519 She did whatever came up to rebuild her career. It 35 00:02:07.560 --> 00:02:10.240 was in her DNA, Are you all right? 36 00:02:12.439 --> 00:02:15.960 She was a fighter and not kidding it all gives 37 00:02:16.000 --> 00:02:16.759 you that fight. 38 00:02:17.120 --> 00:02:19.599 There were a lot of kids who had very unhappy childhoods, 39 00:02:19.639 --> 00:02:24.000 and their oasis was this loving adult who accepted you. 40 00:02:24.319 --> 00:02:26.759 No matter how little you are, you can still be 41 00:02:26.800 --> 00:02:28.919 a big help to a friend in need. 42 00:02:29.639 --> 00:02:33.400 You create confident and curious human beings by showing them 43 00:02:33.439 --> 00:02:35.800 how to do something and then applauding their success. 44 00:02:36.000 --> 00:02:39.639 I can, I can, I can, and I will. Okay good. 45 00:02:41.599 --> 00:02:45.520 I was just having fun watching these brilliant characters teach me. 46 00:02:45.800 --> 00:02:49.039 I think it's called self esteem and it is the 47 00:02:49.080 --> 00:02:51.520 most important lesson for children to get. 48 00:02:53.159 --> 00:02:59.879 And just remember to make yourself go. 49 00:03:04.120 --> 00:03:20.879 Can Hey, folks, Welcome to a special episode of the 50 00:03:20.879 --> 00:03:23.520 Projection Booth. I'm your host Mike White. On this episode, 51 00:03:23.560 --> 00:03:26.960 I'm talking about Lisa Diappolito all about her new documentary, 52 00:03:27.280 --> 00:03:30.639 Sherry and Lamb Chop. Yes, it is a story of 53 00:03:30.680 --> 00:03:34.840 Sherry Lewis and her puppet Lamb Chop, entertaining children and 54 00:03:34.919 --> 00:03:39.360 adults for decades. Great documentary really shines a light on 55 00:03:39.439 --> 00:03:42.960 someone who I was not aware of, just how amazing 56 00:03:43.039 --> 00:03:46.800 they are, how talented, and how much of a born entertainer. 57 00:03:47.120 --> 00:03:48.960 We had Lisa on the show a few years ago 58 00:03:49.039 --> 00:03:52.439 as she was talking about her Gilda radnerd documentary. She's 59 00:03:52.479 --> 00:03:58.240 back with another solid doc highly recommended. Be sure to 60 00:03:58.319 --> 00:04:00.319 check that out if it comes to your TOWNE and 61 00:04:00.400 --> 00:04:03.400 I hope you enjoy this interview. How did the Sherry 62 00:04:03.479 --> 00:04:04.919 Lewis project come about for you? 63 00:04:05.759 --> 00:04:09.639 After Gilda? I had a list of inspiring women. I 64 00:04:09.680 --> 00:04:12.639 was looking for another inspiring woman, like an unsung hero 65 00:04:12.840 --> 00:04:15.759 whose story I felt need to be told, and Cherry 66 00:04:15.879 --> 00:04:18.800 wasn't actually even on my list. But I had become 67 00:04:18.839 --> 00:04:23.279 friends with Gene Wilder's nephew and he had a production company, 68 00:04:23.319 --> 00:04:25.480 and he called me up and he's Pee. One of 69 00:04:25.480 --> 00:04:28.839 his producers had met Mallory Cherry's daughter, and he said, 70 00:04:28.839 --> 00:04:32.439 would you be interested in Sherry Lewis and Lamb Chop 71 00:04:33.040 --> 00:04:35.879 Cherry Lewis because he knew I was looking for a project, 72 00:04:36.279 --> 00:04:38.879 and I was like, h Lamb Chop, and I got 73 00:04:38.879 --> 00:04:42.120 all excited. And I didn't really know much about Sherry, 74 00:04:42.160 --> 00:04:44.319 and then I started doing the research on her and 75 00:04:44.360 --> 00:04:46.560 she was definitely an unsung hero. So that's kind of 76 00:04:46.560 --> 00:04:47.920 how that came about. 77 00:04:48.240 --> 00:04:50.680 What's your experience with Lamb Chop when you're growing up? 78 00:04:51.279 --> 00:04:53.360 Well, that was the weird thing is I didn't have 79 00:04:53.800 --> 00:04:56.399 either of the two shows. I was also in between, 80 00:04:56.519 --> 00:04:58.879 so it wasn't I didn't watch the Sherry Lewis show 81 00:04:59.360 --> 00:05:01.800 and I didn't want watch Lamb CHOP's play along. I 82 00:05:01.920 --> 00:05:04.240 was like in the middle. But somehow I always knew 83 00:05:04.319 --> 00:05:07.279 Lamb Chop and always love Lamb Chop, and somehow I 84 00:05:07.319 --> 00:05:11.560 had like Lamb Chop stuff, like still so love I 85 00:05:11.639 --> 00:05:14.000 love Lamb Chop though I nat had not thought about 86 00:05:14.079 --> 00:05:17.199 Lamb Chop, but you know, hearing the name Lamb Chop, 87 00:05:17.240 --> 00:05:19.519 I just got excited. But I didn't watch her or 88 00:05:19.560 --> 00:05:22.240 anything on television, but I did see, you know, Sherry 89 00:05:22.240 --> 00:05:27.040 would be on talk shows and Hollywood Squares and things 90 00:05:27.079 --> 00:05:29.800 like that. But I just always still love lamp Chop. 91 00:05:30.600 --> 00:05:32.600 Yeah, I'm kind of the same way I was between 92 00:05:32.639 --> 00:05:34.720 the two shows. But she just seemed like such a 93 00:05:34.800 --> 00:05:37.720 part of pop culture it was impossible to escape, not 94 00:05:37.800 --> 00:05:38.519 that I wanted to. 95 00:05:39.240 --> 00:05:42.240 It's interesting because she had, you know, a very big 96 00:05:42.279 --> 00:05:46.240 gap in her real career though she was always working 97 00:05:46.279 --> 00:05:49.079 and always doing stuff, and I'll be honest, I. 98 00:05:49.040 --> 00:05:52.240 Had no idea about that older career just when she 99 00:05:52.360 --> 00:05:55.839 started off, and just she's such a born entertainer. It 100 00:05:55.920 --> 00:05:58.800 was amazing to see, even at such a young age, 101 00:05:58.839 --> 00:06:01.000 that she was just for the stage. 102 00:06:01.600 --> 00:06:05.240 Yeah. Yeah, that was really interesting. That she grew up 103 00:06:05.319 --> 00:06:07.680 you know, in a vaudeville environment, you know, with two 104 00:06:07.759 --> 00:06:11.600 teacher parents who were teachers. But music and magic and 105 00:06:11.720 --> 00:06:14.519 vaudeville and that was always a part of her life. 106 00:06:15.040 --> 00:06:18.319 And dance, oh yeah, lots and lots of dance. And 107 00:06:18.360 --> 00:06:22.680 to see her with that Freda Stare puppet, that was insane. 108 00:06:23.680 --> 00:06:26.759 Yeah, it's crazy. It's crazy there. You know, you can't 109 00:06:26.759 --> 00:06:30.319 put every story in the film, but there were stories 110 00:06:30.360 --> 00:06:32.360 that people would tell about you know, that was a 111 00:06:32.399 --> 00:06:37.240 life size like six feet tall Freda Stare or five 112 00:06:37.360 --> 00:06:39.959 something and he would be like in a coffin case 113 00:06:40.199 --> 00:06:44.759 like that we traveled around with him, and people thought 114 00:06:44.800 --> 00:06:49.680 like the puppet in there. As you can imagine when. 115 00:06:49.839 --> 00:06:52.560 You got the suggestion of Sherry Lewis, I mean, did 116 00:06:52.639 --> 00:06:55.160 you just immediately go, oh, yeah, that sounds great or 117 00:06:55.160 --> 00:06:57.000 did you have to do a little presearch before you 118 00:06:57.040 --> 00:06:59.199 even said there's a project here. 119 00:06:59.800 --> 00:07:02.560 I had to do some work to figure out what 120 00:07:02.720 --> 00:07:04.920 it was. And the first thing I came across was 121 00:07:04.959 --> 00:07:08.759 the New York Times obituary for her father, Abe Herowitz, 122 00:07:08.759 --> 00:07:12.120 who was official the official magician of New York City. 123 00:07:12.800 --> 00:07:15.279 So that kind of grew me in because I was like, 124 00:07:15.360 --> 00:07:21.000 meet what, there's an official magician And that was sort 125 00:07:21.079 --> 00:07:25.560 of kind of what started getting me is the background 126 00:07:25.600 --> 00:07:28.279 and what she came from. And then as I started 127 00:07:28.319 --> 00:07:31.519 to research, I felt it was a real comeback story 128 00:07:32.079 --> 00:07:34.959 for Cherry, kind of like Hacks in a way like 129 00:07:35.360 --> 00:07:38.879 that she was just determined to get back on television 130 00:07:38.920 --> 00:07:41.480 and it took her decades, but she did. And she 131 00:07:41.560 --> 00:07:44.000 was in our sixties and she's singing and dancing and 132 00:07:44.079 --> 00:07:47.439 kicking up her legs and doing splits and upside down, 133 00:07:47.800 --> 00:07:50.199 and I think that was really inspiring to me. So 134 00:07:50.279 --> 00:07:53.040 I think after some research, I realized that to me, 135 00:07:53.120 --> 00:07:54.399 it was like a comeback story. 136 00:07:55.240 --> 00:07:57.120 So when you said, Okay, this is going to be 137 00:07:57.160 --> 00:07:59.439 my next project, how do you go about even starting 138 00:07:59.439 --> 00:08:00.360 to organize all this? 139 00:08:01.439 --> 00:08:04.360 Oh well there was this as opposed to Gilda. With 140 00:08:04.439 --> 00:08:06.879 Gilda was just me and I was a production company, 141 00:08:07.240 --> 00:08:10.639 so there's a production company behind us, and there were 142 00:08:10.639 --> 00:08:16.000 more resources to organize things. But Sherry had a history 143 00:08:16.160 --> 00:08:19.319 of fifty years in entertainment, so there was a lot 144 00:08:19.399 --> 00:08:24.360 to go through. So I think with my amazing editor Andrea, 145 00:08:25.360 --> 00:08:29.560 who started looking at the material in a new eye, 146 00:08:29.959 --> 00:08:32.320 we started to organize and we start to see that 147 00:08:32.399 --> 00:08:35.320 Cherry really started to talk through her puppets, like there 148 00:08:35.360 --> 00:08:38.840 were some really interesting things that I no one talked about. 149 00:08:39.360 --> 00:08:41.919 It never came up, but Andrea has started seeing it 150 00:08:41.919 --> 00:08:44.759 in the material. So that's how we started to organize it, 151 00:08:44.840 --> 00:08:46.919 you know, as a sort of linear doc but with 152 00:08:47.440 --> 00:08:50.600 the idea that Cherry used her puppets too to tell 153 00:08:50.639 --> 00:08:52.080 her story. 154 00:08:52.120 --> 00:08:54.799 With all of that historical footage, I mean, where did 155 00:08:54.799 --> 00:08:56.720 you manage to find all that at? Is there like 156 00:08:56.759 --> 00:08:58.039 a Sherry Lewis archive. 157 00:08:59.039 --> 00:09:04.039 There's the great thing is that David Copperfield when Cherry 158 00:09:04.519 --> 00:09:08.639 somehow David Copperfield got all of Sherry's archives and they 159 00:09:08.679 --> 00:09:11.120 weren't organized in any way. So we had a truck 160 00:09:11.159 --> 00:09:14.559 go to Las Vegas pick up all her tapes and 161 00:09:14.600 --> 00:09:17.600 her collections and her stuff, and we brought her to 162 00:09:17.840 --> 00:09:21.200 Sherry's daughter's house. Mallory and I just started going through 163 00:09:21.240 --> 00:09:25.759 it and then we started transferring things, and not everything 164 00:09:25.799 --> 00:09:28.840 came from there. Some things came from her assistance, and 165 00:09:29.039 --> 00:09:31.480 some things came from different places. But that was a 166 00:09:31.519 --> 00:09:34.399 good you know, it had every Sherry Lewis show in there, 167 00:09:34.440 --> 00:09:37.840 and had every Lamb Chops play along. It had articles 168 00:09:37.879 --> 00:09:41.000 and articles and so there was a lot of that. 169 00:09:41.559 --> 00:09:43.559 How was Malory to work with on this project? 170 00:09:43.960 --> 00:09:46.919 Well, she's great, She's great. You know, she does Lamb Chops. 171 00:09:47.480 --> 00:09:52.360 So it's so basically that's how Malory had approval over 172 00:09:52.399 --> 00:09:55.240 who the director would be. So she came and she 173 00:09:55.320 --> 00:09:57.120 was talking to people, and she came to New York 174 00:09:57.519 --> 00:10:00.080 until she interviewed me. And then Lamb Chop interviewed me, 175 00:10:00.559 --> 00:10:03.399 which at first is like a little but then you 176 00:10:03.440 --> 00:10:06.440 get used to Lamb Chop. But Lamb Chop like me, 177 00:10:07.159 --> 00:10:08.600 So I got the job. 178 00:10:09.399 --> 00:10:13.000 Did she asked those kind of weird interview questions like 179 00:10:13.039 --> 00:10:15.600 what's your strongest weakness some of those things, or like 180 00:10:15.639 --> 00:10:17.000 what's that interview process? 181 00:10:17.120 --> 00:10:20.080 Like? She said, she did her research and she looked 182 00:10:20.080 --> 00:10:22.919 for at all my interviews online and she said, tell 183 00:10:22.960 --> 00:10:27.200 me something that I wouldn't know by watching your interviews. 184 00:10:27.200 --> 00:10:29.639 And I told her something, and we had the same 185 00:10:29.639 --> 00:10:32.120 thing in common, and we just kind of bonded over 186 00:10:32.200 --> 00:10:34.799 that well, very comfortable with her to be able to 187 00:10:34.840 --> 00:10:37.600 tell her things that I normally wouldn't say to other people. 188 00:10:38.120 --> 00:10:39.960 Now, is that Mallory? Is that lamb Chop? 189 00:10:40.879 --> 00:10:41.279 Mallory? 190 00:10:41.559 --> 00:10:44.960 Okay, all right? I was just curious. 191 00:10:44.320 --> 00:10:47.240 Easier to talk to Mallory than lamb Chop that. 192 00:10:47.519 --> 00:10:52.159 Yeah, I've not been interviewed by puppets, but I've been, 193 00:10:52.279 --> 00:10:53.919 you know, I've talked with some people that feel like 194 00:10:53.960 --> 00:10:55.000 total muppets. 195 00:10:55.240 --> 00:10:55.559 Yeah. 196 00:10:55.639 --> 00:10:59.960 Yeah, your editing is so great. Andrew did such a 197 00:11:00.039 --> 00:11:03.879 wonderful job. And I love how sometimes the footage will 198 00:11:03.919 --> 00:11:07.519 comment on itself or comment on the documentary itself. That's 199 00:11:07.559 --> 00:11:11.600 almost like Sherry is a voice inside of the film 200 00:11:12.159 --> 00:11:14.519 or lamp Chop talking about the things that have just 201 00:11:14.840 --> 00:11:15.720 we've just seen. 202 00:11:16.600 --> 00:11:18.919 Oh really, Oh that's I didn't really think about it 203 00:11:18.960 --> 00:11:22.360 that way. But that's the l Andrew you know her, 204 00:11:22.919 --> 00:11:26.759 you know editing taste in her style, and it was 205 00:11:26.840 --> 00:11:30.600 really it was we had a really great working relationship. 206 00:11:31.399 --> 00:11:33.120 What were some of the parts of the story that 207 00:11:33.159 --> 00:11:35.159 you wanted to get to but weren't able to just 208 00:11:35.200 --> 00:11:37.320 because you can't make a ten hour documentary. 209 00:11:38.159 --> 00:11:40.759 Well, one thing I totally regret that we didn't put 210 00:11:40.799 --> 00:11:43.679 in because nobody talked about it and it somehow didn't 211 00:11:43.679 --> 00:11:45.879 fit in. And then we forgot was that Sherry had 212 00:11:45.919 --> 00:11:47.759 written episode of Star Trek. 213 00:11:48.360 --> 00:11:49.919 Oh wow, I know that. 214 00:11:50.480 --> 00:11:51.360 No man, that I. 215 00:11:51.320 --> 00:11:54.399 Didn't put it in, So I don't know how. I 216 00:11:54.440 --> 00:11:56.639 remember thinking we should put this in, and I remember 217 00:11:56.720 --> 00:11:58.840 Andy was saying, well, no one talks about it, and 218 00:11:59.440 --> 00:12:03.519 it wasn't coming in, like it wasn't fitting into where 219 00:12:03.600 --> 00:12:07.720 things were fitting in. But I regretted that I didn't 220 00:12:08.120 --> 00:12:10.960 do that like that because that is such a big thing. 221 00:12:12.159 --> 00:12:14.679 I didn't put that in, and I regret that. And 222 00:12:14.720 --> 00:12:18.320 then there's a puppet that I love called Mister Person, 223 00:12:18.399 --> 00:12:22.399 which was a Captain Person, which was Kangaroo. He never 224 00:12:22.480 --> 00:12:23.320 made it in either. 225 00:12:24.360 --> 00:12:26.559 I was aware of Lamb Chop, but I wasn't aware 226 00:12:26.559 --> 00:12:29.679 of all of the other puppets and just that like 227 00:12:29.759 --> 00:12:32.559 they were saying in the interview that I think it 228 00:12:32.639 --> 00:12:35.159 might be what Charlie Rose that she's talking to about 229 00:12:35.159 --> 00:12:38.559 how the puppets are different facets of her personality. That 230 00:12:38.720 --> 00:12:39.519 was fascinating. 231 00:12:40.120 --> 00:12:42.240 Yeah, it was a different interview. And I can't remember 232 00:12:42.279 --> 00:12:44.720 his name because and I should go look it up 233 00:12:44.720 --> 00:12:48.159 because he was the best interviewer of everybody. When I 234 00:12:48.200 --> 00:12:51.919 found that interview, it was the insights to Sherry that 235 00:12:52.000 --> 00:12:54.279 I didn't get from any other interview because she was 236 00:12:54.399 --> 00:12:57.159 very you know shery was very conscious of her what 237 00:12:57.240 --> 00:13:00.799 she looked like, what she talked like, what her you know, 238 00:13:00.840 --> 00:13:03.480 her persona was. So that was a really good interview 239 00:13:03.600 --> 00:13:07.759 because he got into her and she felt comfortable enough. 240 00:13:08.000 --> 00:13:10.879 It was during the time she was having problems with 241 00:13:10.919 --> 00:13:15.679 her husband, so I think more vulnerable than she normally 242 00:13:15.679 --> 00:13:16.240 would have been. 243 00:13:17.080 --> 00:13:20.639 The whole thing with her marriage was so fascinating and 244 00:13:20.759 --> 00:13:22.879 just such an undercurrent going through everything. 245 00:13:24.240 --> 00:13:27.600 Sarry has a lot of lessons I think in her life, 246 00:13:27.679 --> 00:13:30.080 Like you know that people have marriage problems, people have 247 00:13:30.200 --> 00:13:33.120 problems with their children, they have health problems, but it's 248 00:13:33.159 --> 00:13:37.080 really like getting through it and with a good attitude, 249 00:13:37.840 --> 00:13:40.360 you know, and that everybody has these problems, but you know, 250 00:13:40.399 --> 00:13:42.200 you can get through it. So I thought that was 251 00:13:42.240 --> 00:13:43.120 pretty interesting. 252 00:13:44.480 --> 00:13:46.960 It is such a great structure to her life and 253 00:13:47.000 --> 00:13:49.799 to her story where you have that initial success and 254 00:13:49.840 --> 00:13:52.440 that comeback at the end, but those days in the 255 00:13:52.440 --> 00:13:54.919 wilderness where you're saying, like, oh, here she is in 256 00:13:54.919 --> 00:13:57.720 this movie, here she is in this television special. That 257 00:13:57.919 --> 00:14:00.519 was some of the most fascinating stuff, just how she 258 00:14:00.679 --> 00:14:03.559 kept her name alive and kept her personality out there. 259 00:14:04.320 --> 00:14:06.200 Yeah, and she would still you know, she would go 260 00:14:06.240 --> 00:14:08.799 to these fairs and if four people showed up, she 261 00:14:08.840 --> 00:14:12.720 would still you know, she always appreciated her audience, no 262 00:14:12.759 --> 00:14:15.720 matter how many they were or who they were. You know, 263 00:14:15.759 --> 00:14:18.440 she just loved performing and entertaining people well. 264 00:14:18.519 --> 00:14:21.679 And then also educator as well, which was just so 265 00:14:21.960 --> 00:14:24.120 great to see the way that she worked with kids. 266 00:14:25.039 --> 00:14:27.840 Both her parents, her father being a you know, math 267 00:14:27.879 --> 00:14:31.240 professor and her mother being a music teacher. I think 268 00:14:31.360 --> 00:14:34.919 she grew up with teachers in the family and they 269 00:14:34.960 --> 00:14:39.000 both used you know, her father used magic to teach 270 00:14:39.120 --> 00:14:42.600 children math, So I think there was just always like 271 00:14:42.720 --> 00:14:44.840 teaching was always part of it. And I think all 272 00:14:44.840 --> 00:14:48.440 her early shows, her dad entertained children. So I think 273 00:14:48.840 --> 00:14:52.320 all her early shows, they was sort of an entertainment. 274 00:14:52.639 --> 00:14:55.159 They called it like entertainment. 275 00:14:55.960 --> 00:14:58.360 So what did you actually start on this project. 276 00:14:58.759 --> 00:14:59.720 Right before COVID. 277 00:15:00.039 --> 00:15:02.120 How did that affect you? I'm sure that must made 278 00:15:02.159 --> 00:15:03.919 the interviews almost impossible. 279 00:15:04.600 --> 00:15:09.440 Yeah, it was. It was difficult. I like waited for 280 00:15:09.519 --> 00:15:13.120 Canada the second the border opened up when in flew there. 281 00:15:13.519 --> 00:15:16.600 You know, it's hard to interview people, like, especially older 282 00:15:16.639 --> 00:15:19.600 people when you're wearing a mask, like so that was 283 00:15:19.639 --> 00:15:23.120 a lot of It didn't really stop us, but it 284 00:15:23.159 --> 00:15:25.000 made it more difficult. 285 00:15:25.879 --> 00:15:30.240 I could see the old footage being such a boon 286 00:15:30.360 --> 00:15:32.759 to this, but yeah, without those interviews, and those interviews 287 00:15:32.799 --> 00:15:35.519 are wonderful, and I do love like her daughter's voice, 288 00:15:35.559 --> 00:15:39.799 her family's voice, David Copperfield's voice, and just how did 289 00:15:39.840 --> 00:15:42.080 you even decide, like when it came to people outside 290 00:15:42.120 --> 00:15:44.519 of that circle, who you're going to talk to? 291 00:15:45.519 --> 00:15:49.799 Her family obviously, her sister, her her cousin Eli is 292 00:15:49.840 --> 00:15:53.000 one of my favorites who's in the film. And then 293 00:15:53.519 --> 00:15:58.159 David Copperfield represents the magic part, and then finding young 294 00:15:58.960 --> 00:16:04.519 ventriloquist who influenced by Sherry, and then Sarah Sherman, the 295 00:16:04.559 --> 00:16:08.840 comedian from SNL was a find out of nowhere because 296 00:16:08.879 --> 00:16:12.879 somebody said, oh, look on Instagram, she posted her lamb 297 00:16:12.960 --> 00:16:17.679 chop tattoo, So that was like, that was kind of like, 298 00:16:17.799 --> 00:16:20.679 I wasn't looking for some a comedian who had a 299 00:16:20.759 --> 00:16:24.240 lamb chop tattoo, but that seemed to just happen. 300 00:16:25.360 --> 00:16:27.600 That was such a wonderful moment in the movie. Her 301 00:16:27.679 --> 00:16:30.840 voice just really added a lot, which I'm not even 302 00:16:30.840 --> 00:16:33.639 that familiar with her on SNL, but she just really 303 00:16:33.679 --> 00:16:37.120 brought a lot to that. And Yeah, David Copperfield stuff 304 00:16:37.200 --> 00:16:39.879 was just incredible, and I was like, I've never really 305 00:16:39.960 --> 00:16:42.960 seen him interviewed about somebody else other than him. 306 00:16:43.759 --> 00:16:46.799 He loves Sherry, like he had a crush on her 307 00:16:47.000 --> 00:16:49.240 watching her and then he was able to meet her 308 00:16:49.639 --> 00:16:51.919 later in life. And they had a lot in common, 309 00:16:52.039 --> 00:16:55.960 like the work ethic, because Sherry the worker and so 310 00:16:56.120 --> 00:16:58.919 is David. So they talked a lot about their philosophy 311 00:16:58.960 --> 00:17:03.240 on you know, working hard, and I think that's you know, 312 00:17:04.160 --> 00:17:08.440 Cherry's message really is like you work hard, I want 313 00:17:08.559 --> 00:17:11.119 and I think David was like that too. And David 314 00:17:11.160 --> 00:17:13.799 had wanted to be a ventriloquist when he was young. 315 00:17:14.640 --> 00:17:14.799 Yeah. 316 00:17:14.839 --> 00:17:17.559 I really appreciate too. They'd given a nice little history 317 00:17:17.559 --> 00:17:20.000 of ventriloquism and just where it was at and when 318 00:17:20.000 --> 00:17:24.359 it comes to vaudeville and entertainment. And I mean it 319 00:17:24.440 --> 00:17:27.559 still is a marvel to me that Edgar Bergham was 320 00:17:27.559 --> 00:17:28.200 on the radio. 321 00:17:29.319 --> 00:17:33.720 That doesn't make sense, does it. 322 00:17:32.200 --> 00:17:35.720 But does see Mortimer Sheard and lamp Job together. That 323 00:17:35.880 --> 00:17:36.799 was really nice. 324 00:17:37.200 --> 00:17:40.680 That came from like an event that Cherry was definitely 325 00:17:40.680 --> 00:17:44.039 the only woman in that in the show and there 326 00:17:44.039 --> 00:17:46.880 were several like male male and Lamb Chump was the 327 00:17:46.880 --> 00:17:50.599 only puppet. Everything else was a big, big dummy the 328 00:17:50.720 --> 00:17:51.319 Lamb Chop had. 329 00:17:52.279 --> 00:17:54.519 Oh yeah, well, and Sherry could hold her own and 330 00:17:54.640 --> 00:17:58.640 just her being such a maverick when it came to 331 00:17:59.039 --> 00:18:01.480 breaking into a male dominated field. 332 00:18:02.000 --> 00:18:04.839 Yeah, yeah, well I think you know, she says in 333 00:18:04.880 --> 00:18:07.160 the film that you know, she was raised sort of 334 00:18:07.240 --> 00:18:09.200 as a It didn't matter that she was a woman, 335 00:18:09.920 --> 00:18:11.680 you know, And she said if her father had had 336 00:18:11.720 --> 00:18:14.359 a son, maybe things would have been different, but she 337 00:18:14.519 --> 00:18:17.839 was just raised, you know, as as a person. 338 00:18:18.680 --> 00:18:20.839 There was one moment of footage I wanted to ask 339 00:18:20.880 --> 00:18:25.599 you about particularly, it feels like it's almost like b 340 00:18:25.880 --> 00:18:28.720 roll or like almost test footage from I think it's 341 00:18:28.720 --> 00:18:32.000 a good Morning La interview and you're kind of off 342 00:18:32.039 --> 00:18:34.480 the stage and you can see the other cameras. Do 343 00:18:34.519 --> 00:18:36.240 you know what moment I'm talking about? 344 00:18:37.160 --> 00:18:39.640 That was Yeah, that was like kat La or one 345 00:18:39.640 --> 00:18:41.880 of those shows she was on, I know, and it's 346 00:18:41.920 --> 00:18:45.720 like spooky. It has this orange sort of thing, so 347 00:18:45.799 --> 00:18:47.960 that yeah, that just looked a little different. And they 348 00:18:48.000 --> 00:18:50.000 had a little some b roll in there that I 349 00:18:50.079 --> 00:18:52.680 was able to use as like Sherry behind you know, 350 00:18:52.759 --> 00:18:56.039 behind the the chair with her puppet. 351 00:18:56.319 --> 00:19:00.960 That was great. I thought that was so and just 352 00:19:01.079 --> 00:19:04.359 felt so not stage like. Of course, she knows she 353 00:19:04.519 --> 00:19:06.680 is a performer, so getting in front of a camera, 354 00:19:06.799 --> 00:19:09.880 but that just felt so natural and so behind the scenes. 355 00:19:10.720 --> 00:19:13.599 I think it was rare that Cherry felt that natural 356 00:19:13.680 --> 00:19:17.400 on these shows. So, like you, when we found the 357 00:19:17.440 --> 00:19:21.039 moment that she felt like she was herself where she 358 00:19:21.079 --> 00:19:24.039 felt comfortable with the person because you could see, you know, 359 00:19:24.119 --> 00:19:27.480 she directs a lot of the interviews herself in some sense, 360 00:19:27.640 --> 00:19:30.839 like she doesn't want anyone to tell her anything. Like 361 00:19:30.920 --> 00:19:35.480 when they ask Lambshop how old you are, she turns 362 00:19:35.480 --> 00:19:38.640 it around and does what she wants. 363 00:19:38.359 --> 00:19:41.880 To say, to be able to use Lamb Chop to 364 00:19:41.920 --> 00:19:44.480 deflect or any of those other puppets. I thought was. 365 00:19:44.599 --> 00:19:48.319 Brilliant when Cherry was going through She's with her husband 366 00:19:48.440 --> 00:19:51.759 and she's on a show with Charlie ros Is getting 367 00:19:51.839 --> 00:19:55.559 you know, having problems and possibly getting a divorce. That's 368 00:19:55.599 --> 00:19:59.119 really was kind of so out of character for Sherry, 369 00:19:59.240 --> 00:20:02.599 but often known her husband was sitting there watching, whether 370 00:20:02.680 --> 00:20:05.279 he was there or watching it at home. 371 00:20:06.119 --> 00:20:07.920 I can't remember when she passed away. 372 00:20:08.839 --> 00:20:10.440 I think it was nineteen ninety nine. 373 00:20:10.720 --> 00:20:14.359 Okay, so you, oh, no problem. I just wanted to 374 00:20:14.559 --> 00:20:16.920 verify that you didn't actually have a chance to talk 375 00:20:16.960 --> 00:20:17.319 with her. 376 00:20:18.000 --> 00:20:20.279 No, we used a lot of a and he had 377 00:20:20.319 --> 00:20:23.319 done a documentary about her, so we were able to 378 00:20:23.440 --> 00:20:25.759 and the footage was at UCLA, so we were able 379 00:20:25.799 --> 00:20:28.519 to get all the archives and the outtakes. So that 380 00:20:28.680 --> 00:20:31.000 was really good. So that was a good base for 381 00:20:31.079 --> 00:20:31.599 us to have. 382 00:20:32.480 --> 00:20:34.559 If you could have sat down with her for an interview, 383 00:20:34.559 --> 00:20:35.559 what would you asked her? 384 00:20:36.319 --> 00:20:40.079 I guess more about her relationship with her husband, because 385 00:20:40.119 --> 00:20:44.440 I think she made him a producer, like he was 386 00:20:44.440 --> 00:20:47.960 like a trust fund kid. I just wanted to know 387 00:20:48.039 --> 00:20:52.680 more about that. I think the personal, that personal side 388 00:20:52.720 --> 00:20:56.920 of things I think I'd like to know about. I 389 00:20:56.920 --> 00:20:59.720 feel like I know her pretty well. Surey was a 390 00:20:59.720 --> 00:21:03.160 really practical person, but her husband was doing all these 391 00:21:03.240 --> 00:21:06.559 crazy things and she would go along with them, and 392 00:21:06.599 --> 00:21:10.279 I would wonder about what her experience was like meeting, 393 00:21:10.599 --> 00:21:12.599 you know, being out of her comfort zone. So I 394 00:21:12.599 --> 00:21:14.880 guess those are the questions I would ask her. Is like, 395 00:21:15.480 --> 00:21:17.720 in situations where I knew she was out of her 396 00:21:17.759 --> 00:21:21.960 comfort zone, how did she react or what was that 397 00:21:22.160 --> 00:21:27.759 like for her? Because she wasn't esoteric, she wasn't that way, 398 00:21:27.799 --> 00:21:30.359 but she went along and I just she probably would 399 00:21:30.359 --> 00:21:34.359 have funny stories about things that happened to her. So 400 00:21:34.440 --> 00:21:35.799 I think that I would ask. 401 00:21:35.640 --> 00:21:38.759