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This is your host Dan Zupansky for the 37 00:01:49.719 --> 00:01:52.920 program True Murder, The most shocking Killers in true crime 38 00:01:53.079 --> 00:01:56.519 History and the authors that have written about them. In 39 00:01:56.680 --> 00:02:01.400 May twenty twelve, suspected serial killer Angel gurdy Gabrel was 40 00:02:01.599 --> 00:02:05.359 extradited from the Dominican Republic for the nineteen ninety three 41 00:02:05.480 --> 00:02:09.400 murder of his girlfriend, alte Gracia Valdez twenty four after 42 00:02:09.560 --> 00:02:13.879 new DNA technology linked him to the crime. Baldez was 43 00:02:13.960 --> 00:02:16.520 found on the living room floor of her apartment, her 44 00:02:16.560 --> 00:02:19.800 baby's son unharmed nearby. She was stabbed in the neck 45 00:02:19.879 --> 00:02:23.520 and shoulder and appeared to have been sexually assaulted. Gurdy 46 00:02:23.599 --> 00:02:26.719 Cabrel fought his extradition from the Dominican Republic for nearly 47 00:02:26.800 --> 00:02:30.000 two years. Police also spect him in a half dozen 48 00:02:30.120 --> 00:02:33.800 other crimes in the Bronx Manhattan and Queens, including rapes 49 00:02:33.840 --> 00:02:36.319 and murders, but he could only be charged with the 50 00:02:36.439 --> 00:02:38.759 nineteen ninety three murder due to a clause in the 51 00:02:38.840 --> 00:02:43.800 extradition deal. He was a detective supervisor for nineteen years 52 00:02:43.919 --> 00:02:47.280 and commanding officer of the Bronx Cold Case Homicide Squad, 53 00:02:47.759 --> 00:02:50.840 personally working on hundreds of murder and missing person cases. 54 00:02:51.280 --> 00:02:54.960 In his career, he has written The Criminal Investigative Function, 55 00:02:55.319 --> 00:02:59.800 a guide for a guide for new investigators, a real 56 00:02:59.840 --> 00:03:03.800 world look into criminal investigations from the crime scene all 57 00:03:03.879 --> 00:03:07.039 the way to the courtroom, all the actual legalities that 58 00:03:07.280 --> 00:03:11.240 impact investigations the most. The book we're featuring this evening 59 00:03:11.599 --> 00:03:16.759 is Bronx Cold Case Homicide, The Investigative Pardon me, The 60 00:03:17.199 --> 00:03:26.039 Investigative Function, with my special guest, Joseph L. Jack Coloney. 61 00:03:26.560 --> 00:03:30.319 Welcome to the program, Joseph, and thank you for ingreeing 62 00:03:30.360 --> 00:03:31.000 to this interview. 63 00:03:31.599 --> 00:03:32.360 Hi Dan, how are you? 64 00:03:33.520 --> 00:03:36.080 Oh fine? Thank you? I screwed up on the I 65 00:03:36.199 --> 00:03:40.360 had what I call this program was Bronx Cold Case Homicide. 66 00:03:40.400 --> 00:03:43.159 And before we go any further, I'll just explain to 67 00:03:43.240 --> 00:03:45.599 the audience we're going to be talking about is your 68 00:03:45.680 --> 00:03:49.759 experiences as commander of Bronx Cold Case Homicide. We're going 69 00:03:49.840 --> 00:03:53.639 to talk about some cases like the Angel Gabriel case 70 00:03:53.719 --> 00:03:59.120 that I mentioned in the introduction, but also The Criminal 71 00:03:59.199 --> 00:04:04.199 Investigative Function, a guide for new investigators, which is required reading, 72 00:04:05.479 --> 00:04:09.520 and we'll talk all about that, and just welcome to 73 00:04:09.599 --> 00:04:17.639 the program. And let's first talk about what you why 74 00:04:17.759 --> 00:04:20.560 you were in a position to want to write The 75 00:04:20.720 --> 00:04:22.120 Criminal Investigative Function. 76 00:04:22.279 --> 00:04:22.639 What was it? 77 00:04:23.040 --> 00:04:27.079 What was your position and what was the reason why 78 00:04:27.319 --> 00:04:30.879 you were convinced that you needed to write this book, 79 00:04:31.000 --> 00:04:32.439 The Criminal Investigative Function. 80 00:04:33.439 --> 00:04:38.639 Okay, well it's actually a twofold issue. When I started 81 00:04:38.879 --> 00:04:41.600 as an adjunct professor at John Jay College number of 82 00:04:41.639 --> 00:04:44.399 years agot to gain Mike seventh year. Now, I was 83 00:04:44.680 --> 00:04:47.800 teaching the criminal investigation classes and you know, most of 84 00:04:47.839 --> 00:04:50.800 it just you know, kids eighteen, nineteen, twenty years old, 85 00:04:51.879 --> 00:04:54.000 and you know, you know, you get these textbooks from 86 00:04:54.160 --> 00:04:56.040 some of these big companies and you get these huge 87 00:04:56.160 --> 00:05:00.319 textbooks that it's a great it's like a Dick Sary 88 00:05:00.399 --> 00:05:02.279 more or an encyclopedia. Let's look at that, you know, 89 00:05:02.480 --> 00:05:04.759 most of the criminal investigation textbooks that I found were 90 00:05:04.839 --> 00:05:09.480 more likely you know, Encyclopedia Britannica, and they just everything 91 00:05:09.560 --> 00:05:12.079 is an overview. Everything is you know, this is what 92 00:05:12.279 --> 00:05:14.519 this is, this with this, you know that with that is. 93 00:05:14.639 --> 00:05:17.399 And it's kind of one of those things where they 94 00:05:17.879 --> 00:05:20.240 they end up dealing with more what the uniform officer 95 00:05:20.360 --> 00:05:24.040 does than the actual detective. So I said, if I 96 00:05:24.199 --> 00:05:26.720 want to teach these kids, or teach even law enforcement 97 00:05:26.800 --> 00:05:31.040 on how to you know, conduct an actual investigation, I 98 00:05:31.160 --> 00:05:34.759 need to write a more of a practical guide. Then 99 00:05:35.040 --> 00:05:37.519 let's just say, you know, a descriptive guide or you know, 100 00:05:37.600 --> 00:05:40.439 a descriptive text that you find out there. And I 101 00:05:40.519 --> 00:05:42.720 wanted to do it too. Then respect that I wanted 102 00:05:42.759 --> 00:05:45.879 it easier to be understood. I wanted to run in 103 00:05:46.639 --> 00:05:49.639 investigative order. So they designed the book so that the 104 00:05:50.160 --> 00:05:52.759 student get you know, picks the case up from crime 105 00:05:52.839 --> 00:05:55.399 scene actually the notification of the crime, to the crime 106 00:05:55.439 --> 00:05:58.519 scene to the courtroom and everything in between. And I 107 00:05:58.600 --> 00:06:00.879 wanted to lay it out that way so that the 108 00:06:00.959 --> 00:06:03.680 student would be able to absorb everything that he or 109 00:06:03.720 --> 00:06:05.720 she had have to do in all those steps, so 110 00:06:05.839 --> 00:06:07.959 you don't miss them, and I throw in a lot 111 00:06:08.000 --> 00:06:10.920 of things, a lot of errors that I made, you know, 112 00:06:11.319 --> 00:06:14.399 as a supervisor and even as a mistigator way back 113 00:06:14.439 --> 00:06:17.439 when that to make sure you don't you know, you 114 00:06:17.480 --> 00:06:19.720 can avoid these things so that you know, we can 115 00:06:19.800 --> 00:06:22.439 move on from that. And the second reason that I 116 00:06:22.519 --> 00:06:25.560 wrote this book is that we have a big problem 117 00:06:25.600 --> 00:06:28.439 in the country where we're starting to see clearance rates, 118 00:06:29.519 --> 00:06:33.240 especially in murder, dropping in many major cities. And it 119 00:06:33.480 --> 00:06:35.279 has to do with a lot of the experience to 120 00:06:35.519 --> 00:06:39.639 investigators have retired or they've been transferred from investigations back 121 00:06:39.639 --> 00:06:42.040 to patrol work because of this whole downturn in the economy. 122 00:06:42.360 --> 00:06:44.519 So there was a real experience gap that I wanted 123 00:06:44.519 --> 00:06:45.160 to try to fill. 124 00:06:48.360 --> 00:06:53.759 Now, let us tell our audience what was your route personally? 125 00:06:53.920 --> 00:06:57.240 You talk about in very early in the book about 126 00:06:57.439 --> 00:07:01.240 what it takes to be actually become an investigator, and 127 00:07:01.360 --> 00:07:02.879 you say, this is the most one of the most 128 00:07:02.920 --> 00:07:06.720 asked questions in the classroom everywhere. 129 00:07:07.360 --> 00:07:12.040 Yeah, I'm sorry, go ahead. Now, it's usually the students 130 00:07:12.079 --> 00:07:13.920 that this is what they want to come right out 131 00:07:13.920 --> 00:07:16.600 of the police academy and go right into the detective bureau. 132 00:07:16.680 --> 00:07:20.759 You know, sure, well, tell us to tell our audience 133 00:07:20.800 --> 00:07:24.240 how it actually works. What is the entire process, and 134 00:07:24.600 --> 00:07:27.319 and take it from your experience. What was the process 135 00:07:27.720 --> 00:07:29.319 that you had to go through. And I'm sure you 136 00:07:29.399 --> 00:07:32.800 didn't do anything that no one else couldn't have possibly done, 137 00:07:33.439 --> 00:07:35.560 but you do say that this is an exceptional if 138 00:07:35.560 --> 00:07:38.160 you're going to get to be an investigator. This is 139 00:07:38.279 --> 00:07:41.240 not for everybody that enters into the into the police department. 140 00:07:41.319 --> 00:07:45.319 So tell us how exactly you did and got to 141 00:07:45.399 --> 00:07:48.600 this position, and take us through the entire process what 142 00:07:48.759 --> 00:07:52.439 you had to do to be able to be classified 143 00:07:52.680 --> 00:07:56.600 and to be qualified for this investigator rule. 144 00:07:57.079 --> 00:08:02.120 Okay, well, what usually happens. There's police departments vary from 145 00:08:02.480 --> 00:08:04.959 different ways, but most of them I wouldn't put a 146 00:08:04.959 --> 00:08:06.480 percentage on them, but I would say most of them 147 00:08:07.040 --> 00:08:11.480 have what they refer to as a system where you 148 00:08:11.680 --> 00:08:15.399 have to starting out of the uniform officer and work 149 00:08:15.439 --> 00:08:17.879 your way up through the investigative ranks. And I'll explain 150 00:08:17.959 --> 00:08:19.839 what that is. And there are actually some police departments, 151 00:08:19.879 --> 00:08:23.680 such as Philadelphia that actually has a written exam to 152 00:08:23.759 --> 00:08:27.439 become a detective. So you know, most of I said, 153 00:08:27.480 --> 00:08:29.160 most of it is the you know, you kind of 154 00:08:29.240 --> 00:08:31.240 earn it kind of thing, and there are actually two 155 00:08:31.319 --> 00:08:33.519 routes within the earn it kind of thing, and I'll 156 00:08:33.559 --> 00:08:35.799 explain that. What happens is after you come out of 157 00:08:35.799 --> 00:08:39.000 the academy, everyone gets assigned to a precinct. So I'm 158 00:08:39.279 --> 00:08:42.080 just gonna talk like in general terms of New York 159 00:08:42.120 --> 00:08:45.120 City because I'm not really so familiar with every police 160 00:08:45.159 --> 00:08:47.039 department's way of how they do this, but this is 161 00:08:47.120 --> 00:08:50.440 generally how most departments follow it. Out of the police academy, 162 00:08:50.440 --> 00:08:53.120 you get assigned to a patrol precinct or a district 163 00:08:53.320 --> 00:08:55.120 or you know where they have lots of different names 164 00:08:55.159 --> 00:08:58.320 for them. And what happens is you try to, you know, 165 00:08:58.759 --> 00:09:01.559 you try to get recognized by the amount of arrests 166 00:09:01.600 --> 00:09:03.480 that you do make and what they look for. They 167 00:09:03.519 --> 00:09:08.480 look for quality arrests, such as, you know, gun callers 168 00:09:08.720 --> 00:09:11.240 and you know where you're finding people out on the 169 00:09:11.240 --> 00:09:16.159 street with guns, and you're looking at areas where you know, 170 00:09:16.240 --> 00:09:19.639 you burglary collars, major felony collars, and some of them. 171 00:09:19.679 --> 00:09:21.559 They want to see if you what they call referred 172 00:09:21.559 --> 00:09:23.840 to as a pickup arrest, which is you didn't get 173 00:09:23.879 --> 00:09:25.360 it off the radio, like you didn't get a call 174 00:09:25.440 --> 00:09:27.279 that there's a robbery going on the street corner, you 175 00:09:27.360 --> 00:09:29.320 pulled up in your car and you interested the guy 176 00:09:29.399 --> 00:09:31.720 still there, So they want you to you know, they 177 00:09:31.799 --> 00:09:37.320 look for those individuals that will you know, observe it 178 00:09:37.639 --> 00:09:40.879 some of these things. Now, one of the incidents I 179 00:09:41.000 --> 00:09:44.840 was actually involved in an on duty shooting that involved 180 00:09:44.879 --> 00:09:48.039 they actually walked into a I'm just a regular call 181 00:09:48.840 --> 00:09:51.919 for disturbance and we ended up walking into a robbery 182 00:09:51.960 --> 00:09:56.600 in progress. So I kind of fell into the you know, 183 00:09:56.679 --> 00:10:00.000 I went into the warrants do any investigations right after 184 00:10:00.039 --> 00:10:04.559 for this incident. And what happens is after a certain 185 00:10:04.639 --> 00:10:07.720 number of arrests, what happens is most of the police 186 00:10:07.720 --> 00:10:10.279 officers they go into what they call the anti clime unit, 187 00:10:10.360 --> 00:10:13.440 which is the plane closed assignments where you're you know, 188 00:10:13.759 --> 00:10:18.600 driving around looking for guns and robberies and burglaries. That's 189 00:10:18.679 --> 00:10:21.960 basically what your role is, and it's you know, generally 190 00:10:22.039 --> 00:10:26.600 you work in knights and you're doing you know, you're 191 00:10:26.679 --> 00:10:29.759 really doing like that, beginning to build that investigative work. 192 00:10:30.399 --> 00:10:34.279 Once you're done with the anti crime section, you will 193 00:10:34.360 --> 00:10:38.600 then be chosen by the detective bureau. And what happens 194 00:10:38.679 --> 00:10:41.200 is in the city. What they have is the precinct 195 00:10:42.360 --> 00:10:45.000 patrol offices and the detective squad are in the same building, 196 00:10:45.399 --> 00:10:47.759 but they're run by two different bureaus. Each one has 197 00:10:47.759 --> 00:10:50.320 their own chief and each chief is the same rank, 198 00:10:50.399 --> 00:10:54.080 so it's really becomes like they're really separate, if that 199 00:10:54.200 --> 00:10:59.639 makes any sense. Yes, So what happens is and that's 200 00:10:59.720 --> 00:11:03.120 just so that you know, nobody, you know, sticks their 201 00:11:03.200 --> 00:11:05.200 nose into an area where they shouldn't. You know, where 202 00:11:05.200 --> 00:11:07.360 they shouldn't, so each one has the same level of 203 00:11:07.440 --> 00:11:09.879 rank so that you keep the peace. That way, everyone 204 00:11:09.960 --> 00:11:11.799 knows what their role they have to do. Between the 205 00:11:11.879 --> 00:11:15.320 detective Bureau and when I got promoted to I got 206 00:11:15.360 --> 00:11:18.159 promoted to sergeant pretty quick, and you know, it's for 207 00:11:18.759 --> 00:11:22.519 you know, basically for you know, exams for promotions and sergeants, 208 00:11:23.039 --> 00:11:26.240 and what they do is they scoop up people who 209 00:11:26.320 --> 00:11:29.200 have this type of experience or even don't into the 210 00:11:29.279 --> 00:11:31.919 Internal Affairs Bureau. And I ended up going into the 211 00:11:31.960 --> 00:11:36.159 Internal Affairs Bureau as an investigator as a sergeant and 212 00:11:36.639 --> 00:11:40.519 working there. They there's basically I mean, you can volunteer 213 00:11:40.600 --> 00:11:42.720 for but most people are there are forced to be there, 214 00:11:44.000 --> 00:11:46.879 and you learn how to do the internal investigations, which 215 00:11:47.519 --> 00:11:49.799 you know are easy and difficult all at the same time. 216 00:11:50.639 --> 00:11:52.799 And what happens is after you do your stint age, 217 00:11:52.840 --> 00:11:55.240 you're generally last a little over two years or two years. 218 00:11:55.600 --> 00:11:58.039 I ended up in the one to ten precinc squad, 219 00:11:58.080 --> 00:12:00.399 which was at a Corona which actually covers you know, 220 00:12:00.519 --> 00:12:03.879 Shay Stadium and well actually now a city field where 221 00:12:03.919 --> 00:12:07.120 the Mets play and you know, the tennis courts, and 222 00:12:07.200 --> 00:12:09.639 then you have you know, your your all the sections 223 00:12:09.679 --> 00:12:13.279 of Corona and Elmer's and all these other locations. And 224 00:12:13.600 --> 00:12:16.320 there I was responsible for We had about twenty at 225 00:12:16.360 --> 00:12:19.279 the time, twenty seven detectives, and we handled all the 226 00:12:19.360 --> 00:12:24.159 major crimes, murder, rape, robberies, you name it. You know, 227 00:12:24.279 --> 00:12:27.200 these guys and girls handle it. And part of my 228 00:12:27.360 --> 00:12:30.919 job was being able to manage these things and get them, 229 00:12:31.200 --> 00:12:33.320 you know, make sure that where these cases are going up, 230 00:12:33.840 --> 00:12:36.360 and you know, going out and making arrest with these 231 00:12:36.639 --> 00:12:39.440 with the teams and you know, finding doing search warrants 232 00:12:39.480 --> 00:12:41.600 and those kind of things. And that's and that's basically 233 00:12:41.720 --> 00:12:44.799 how how that that what that aspect of my career went. 234 00:12:45.360 --> 00:12:48.080 And then I was going to school. I finished up 235 00:12:48.120 --> 00:12:49.519 my mass degree while I was trying to do all 236 00:12:49.559 --> 00:12:51.960 this stuff. Believe it or not. I was married, no kids, 237 00:12:52.039 --> 00:12:53.919 so it was a little easy to go to work 238 00:12:54.000 --> 00:12:56.000 and work all day and overtime in school. But then 239 00:12:56.000 --> 00:12:57.559 you had to get your teachers to, you know, try 240 00:12:57.600 --> 00:12:59.639 to help you out and try to explain to them like, hey, listen, 241 00:12:59.679 --> 00:13:01.639 sometimes something might happen. I might not get the class. 242 00:13:02.360 --> 00:13:05.080 So you know, most of the teachers were you becx understanding, 243 00:13:05.080 --> 00:13:07.360 but probably not. Didn't miss too many too many classes 244 00:13:07.399 --> 00:13:11.360 because of that. And what I did then was after 245 00:13:11.440 --> 00:13:14.919 I got my master's degree and the chief had reached 246 00:13:14.919 --> 00:13:17.919 out to me and wanted me to put together the 247 00:13:18.039 --> 00:13:20.399 training unit for the detectives. So this is how I 248 00:13:20.440 --> 00:13:23.879 started getting into the training aspect and you know, really 249 00:13:24.039 --> 00:13:26.080 trying to impart some of the knowledge that I've had 250 00:13:26.120 --> 00:13:29.960 and then bringing other experts in who can teach the 251 00:13:30.080 --> 00:13:34.080 detectives how to do things. And my responsibility there for 252 00:13:34.759 --> 00:13:37.960 a couple of years was that I ran what we 253 00:13:38.200 --> 00:13:42.120 referred to as like the the NYPD Homicide School, which. 254 00:13:42.000 --> 00:13:45.360 I was gonna ask you about that because that's very interesting. 255 00:13:45.440 --> 00:13:49.960 You were the director of New York Police Department Homicide School, right. 256 00:13:50.200 --> 00:13:55.200 I ran six accredited homicide courses with college credits where 257 00:13:55.240 --> 00:13:58.399 the detectives actually, upon successful completion of the class, they 258 00:13:58.440 --> 00:14:00.559 have to take an exam and they would get three 259 00:14:00.639 --> 00:14:04.879 college credits. So it was more of, you know, a 260 00:14:04.960 --> 00:14:09.120 learning experience for the detectives to get all this information 261 00:14:09.200 --> 00:14:11.759 about how do you investigate a homicide? Because when you 262 00:14:11.840 --> 00:14:14.039 look at homicide, and I know from your you know, 263 00:14:14.120 --> 00:14:17.879 reading about you and your site and your books, one 264 00:14:17.879 --> 00:14:19.799 of the things that you learn is that a homicide 265 00:14:19.919 --> 00:14:24.080 is what we refer to as the exemplar, the example 266 00:14:24.200 --> 00:14:27.559 for every type of investigation. Every thing that you can 267 00:14:27.720 --> 00:14:30.799 learn how to investigate in a homicide, you would use 268 00:14:30.840 --> 00:14:33.600 for the much lesser crimes. You know, your obberies and 269 00:14:33.639 --> 00:14:36.360 your births, you use the same things that you would 270 00:14:36.360 --> 00:14:38.080 for the homicide. It's just that and the homicide you 271 00:14:38.120 --> 00:14:40.720 pull out all the stops. So if you teach the 272 00:14:40.879 --> 00:14:44.159 detectives how to handle the homicides, those skills that you 273 00:14:44.240 --> 00:14:46.120 teach them how to handle homicides will filter it down 274 00:14:46.120 --> 00:14:49.440 into the lesser crimes. And you know, and like in 275 00:14:49.519 --> 00:14:52.960 my experience, I always found that rape wasn't a lesser 276 00:14:53.080 --> 00:14:55.159 crime per se, even though it is in the penal law. 277 00:14:56.960 --> 00:14:59.120 You know, what I found is that, you know, if 278 00:14:59.159 --> 00:15:01.759 you kill somebody dead, you know, the family had to suffer. 279 00:15:02.159 --> 00:15:06.039 But unfortunately, with rape victims, I found that they suffer 280 00:15:06.159 --> 00:15:09.440 their whole lived, their relationships and everything else. So you know, 281 00:15:09.600 --> 00:15:12.399 to me, rape was always a crime that was more 282 00:15:12.480 --> 00:15:14.039 devastating than even murder. 283 00:15:16.279 --> 00:15:18.759 Now you'd say in your book early on as well 284 00:15:18.840 --> 00:15:22.559 that and you'll have to be specific about this because 285 00:15:22.600 --> 00:15:25.320 it's you know, maybe it sounds like we're watching TV 286 00:15:25.399 --> 00:15:28.399 a little bit where, but anyway, you talk about that 287 00:15:28.600 --> 00:15:32.440 the victim advocate, and that's your role as an investigator, 288 00:15:32.519 --> 00:15:36.600 and tell us, you know how long you did do this, 289 00:15:36.879 --> 00:15:38.600 but you were the victim advocate, and you said this 290 00:15:38.759 --> 00:15:43.080 was the most rewarding and satisfying. I just think it 291 00:15:43.159 --> 00:15:46.600 might be frustrating. So tell us why specifically was rewarding 292 00:15:47.080 --> 00:15:50.480 and not frustrating as I might have imagined initially. 293 00:15:50.919 --> 00:15:54.279 Well, well, one of the things as the investigator and 294 00:15:54.320 --> 00:15:56.840 as the supervisor, and the eventually from my dealings with 295 00:15:56.919 --> 00:15:58.759 the homicide school and all that other stuff, I was 296 00:15:58.879 --> 00:16:01.919 chosen by then Chief of Detectives at the time to 297 00:16:02.639 --> 00:16:05.879 head up the Bronx cold case squad as pretty much 298 00:16:05.879 --> 00:16:08.159 as like an reward of you know, getting this thing together, 299 00:16:08.279 --> 00:16:10.240 and because I actually got the class of credited to 300 00:16:10.399 --> 00:16:12.600 through the state, so this was like a bonus for 301 00:16:12.720 --> 00:16:16.399 all the detectives and so kind of my reward, and 302 00:16:16.440 --> 00:16:17.879 I wanted to get back out there and do what 303 00:16:17.960 --> 00:16:19.919 I referred to as real police work, even though you 304 00:16:20.000 --> 00:16:22.840 know you're helping out all these other aspects. I always 305 00:16:22.840 --> 00:16:25.399 felt that I wanted to get out there. But even 306 00:16:25.559 --> 00:16:27.200 from the detective squad or even when I was in 307 00:16:27.279 --> 00:16:30.200 the cold case squad, the victims advocate is a big 308 00:16:30.279 --> 00:16:34.879 part because many individuals in the public think that the police, 309 00:16:35.039 --> 00:16:38.120 you know, just don't care, or you know, this is 310 00:16:38.240 --> 00:16:41.639 not an important case, or you know, it's something that 311 00:16:41.759 --> 00:16:45.000 all that you know, the case is cold, or the 312 00:16:45.080 --> 00:16:47.440 case has to be reopened. And I always just explained that, 313 00:16:47.559 --> 00:16:52.320 you know, homicides are never closed. They're always open. They 314 00:16:52.440 --> 00:16:54.320 just have to be re examined from time to time. 315 00:16:54.879 --> 00:16:57.159 But when you reach out to the family members, either 316 00:16:57.200 --> 00:16:59.279 with good news or bad news, you know, and you 317 00:16:59.440 --> 00:17:00.919 try to make contact. 318 00:17:01.000 --> 00:17:04.680 With the lucky landslopts, you can get lucky just about anywhere. 319 00:17:05.640 --> 00:17:08.359 This is your Captain speaking. We've got clear runway and 320 00:17:08.400 --> 00:17:10.200 the weather's fine, but we're just going to circle up 321 00:17:10.240 --> 00:17:13.400 here a while and get lucky. Oh no, nothing like that. 322 00:17:13.559 --> 00:17:15.920 It's just these cash prizes add up quick. So I 323 00:17:16.000 --> 00:17:18.279 suggest you sit back, keep your trade table up right, 324 00:17:18.359 --> 00:17:20.799 and start getting lucky pay for. 325 00:17:20.839 --> 00:17:24.079 Free at lucky landslaps dot com. Are you feeling lucky? 326 00:17:24.440 --> 00:17:27.799 No purchase necessary void. We're prohibited by Law eighteen plus. 327 00:17:27.960 --> 00:17:30.640 Terms and conditions apply see website for details. 328 00:17:31.200 --> 00:17:35.279 Of course, you know as part of the investigation and 329 00:17:35.839 --> 00:17:39.640 is the victimization part. And no matter if you're doing 330 00:17:39.839 --> 00:17:42.359 a crime that just happened five minutes ago or a 331 00:17:42.440 --> 00:17:45.839 crime that happened five ten years ago, the victimization part 332 00:17:45.960 --> 00:17:48.599 is becoming is the most important part of your investigation 333 00:17:48.680 --> 00:17:50.559 because you've got to get to know who your you, 334 00:17:50.720 --> 00:17:53.799 your victim, is why they became a victim of a crime, 335 00:17:53.880 --> 00:17:57.079 what led up to this event. And the issue comes 336 00:17:57.119 --> 00:17:59.640 down to is what we're victimized by. You know, somebody 337 00:17:59.720 --> 00:18:02.240 we know more times than not. So when you get 338 00:18:02.240 --> 00:18:05.400 to know your victim, you might end up identifying suspects 339 00:18:05.720 --> 00:18:06.720 in the case. 340 00:18:09.480 --> 00:18:12.240 So you say, this makes good police sense anyway, just 341 00:18:12.279 --> 00:18:14.519 to find out as much about this person as a 342 00:18:14.640 --> 00:18:17.640 human being as possible anyway, Yes. 343 00:18:17.599 --> 00:18:20.000 And to get to the family members, you know, and 344 00:18:20.119 --> 00:18:21.960 then you know he's trying to show you're you know, 345 00:18:22.279 --> 00:18:24.599 in the cold case part of it, in the in 346 00:18:24.680 --> 00:18:29.039 the liaison part, you have, you know, this thing where 347 00:18:29.079 --> 00:18:30.960 you call up somebody that they haven't heard from the 348 00:18:30.960 --> 00:18:34.240 police probably in ten or fifteen years, and you know, 349 00:18:34.359 --> 00:18:37.400 it kind of makes the you know, the public, the 350 00:18:37.480 --> 00:18:40.559 general public, the families, you know, confident in the way 351 00:18:40.599 --> 00:18:43.039 that the police work and that there are people out 352 00:18:43.079 --> 00:18:45.279 there that still care that we still try to carry on. 353 00:18:45.839 --> 00:18:48.880 You know, you're the last there's a cold case person. 354 00:18:49.000 --> 00:18:53.000 You are the last liaison between the police department and 355 00:18:53.240 --> 00:18:56.839 the public, and you know, and that's your role as 356 00:18:56.920 --> 00:19:00.599 the advocate to keep that relationship going. And you have 357 00:19:00.720 --> 00:19:02.839 to be very careful when you're dealing with that also 358 00:19:03.319 --> 00:19:05.799 because you don't want to get somebody's hopes up high. 359 00:19:05.880 --> 00:19:08.799 So you know, when if you're contacting a family, you 360 00:19:09.079 --> 00:19:11.880 have something you know, either as a DNA hit or 361 00:19:12.480 --> 00:19:16.440 some other type of you know, information maybe from you know, 362 00:19:16.640 --> 00:19:18.559 that was developed through an arrest of somebody, and I 363 00:19:18.640 --> 00:19:20.200 wanted to make a deal, I mean, you know as 364 00:19:20.240 --> 00:19:22.599 well as I do. There are you know, a dozen things. 365 00:19:22.680 --> 00:19:25.480 Why cases that were so old that all of a 366 00:19:25.519 --> 00:19:27.759 sudden now come to light because new evidence comes out. 367 00:19:28.720 --> 00:19:31.880 Sure you know that, well you must have seen. DNA 368 00:19:32.079 --> 00:19:34.920 has been probably the thing that people hear about most 369 00:19:35.079 --> 00:19:38.240 because that's the thing that can well it's not the 370 00:19:38.319 --> 00:19:40.960 only thing, but that's what people hear about most, is 371 00:19:41.119 --> 00:19:47.119 new DNA discoveries because DNA technology advanced and for example, 372 00:19:47.160 --> 00:19:49.119 you could use a smaller sample to be able to 373 00:19:49.200 --> 00:19:53.480 do yeah, or detail tests as time went on. So 374 00:19:54.400 --> 00:19:57.119 and some police departments before even the advent of DNA 375 00:19:57.599 --> 00:20:03.359 had the good sense or forethought to package everything. 376 00:20:03.119 --> 00:20:06.680 Up and so well, yeah, that's a problem though because 377 00:20:06.759 --> 00:20:08.920 at the time, most the least departments, even the one 378 00:20:08.920 --> 00:20:10.839 I worked for at the time, we didn't understand those 379 00:20:10.880 --> 00:20:14.240 whole stuff about DNA, you know, ten, fifteen, twenty years ago, 380 00:20:15.200 --> 00:20:18.400 and you know, most of the stuff that was package 381 00:20:18.559 --> 00:20:22.519 was packaged improperly and put in plastic. And one of 382 00:20:22.559 --> 00:20:24.759 the things that you learn about DNA is that it's 383 00:20:25.039 --> 00:20:27.880 in the plastic, it degrades very quickly because of the 384 00:20:27.920 --> 00:20:30.720 moisture that gets built up inside the plastic. So even 385 00:20:30.759 --> 00:20:32.599 if you have a DNA sample, if it was put 386 00:20:32.640 --> 00:20:35.400 in plastic, there might be a possibility that the evidence 387 00:20:35.519 --> 00:20:38.799 was destroyed. Things could be It can't be reversed. But 388 00:20:38.960 --> 00:20:41.119 for instance, if you find something in plastic ahead of 389 00:20:41.160 --> 00:20:44.039 time and you try to and you freeze it, you know, 390 00:20:44.039 --> 00:20:46.839 if there's something that you can save, but you know, 391 00:20:46.960 --> 00:20:49.160 then you're okay. But like even when you were talking 392 00:20:49.240 --> 00:20:51.039 before about the size of a sample, I mean you 393 00:20:51.119 --> 00:20:53.599 needed the size of about a half a dollar, and 394 00:20:53.680 --> 00:20:56.039 now you need about eight cells, so that you you know, 395 00:20:56.400 --> 00:20:58.799 we can't even see unless you have a microscope and 396 00:20:59.720 --> 00:21:03.480 the the wave, the forensics and the DNA are moving 397 00:21:03.559 --> 00:21:06.799 at lightning speed. You know, with the introduction of touch 398 00:21:06.960 --> 00:21:10.440 DNA or familial DNA, these are the things that can 399 00:21:10.559 --> 00:21:14.599 really help out, especially in cold cases where you might 400 00:21:14.680 --> 00:21:17.960 not have had anything before, and now this new technology 401 00:21:18.000 --> 00:21:20.960