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Speaker 1: Oh, so where is it that? All right? There? We are,

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all right, so let's go ahead. How you doing?

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Speaker 2: Man?

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Speaker 3: Hold on, Hold on a second, I shouldn't have but

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I'm gonna bring up in a second we shouldn't be

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able to see.

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Speaker 1: I'm trying to make.

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Speaker 4: Sure you know how to do it to prevent them

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from flashing you.

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Speaker 1: Like, Yes, that's what I'm trying to set it up as.

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Speaker 4: So you just go up real quick and he'll be

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in the background.

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Speaker 1: No.

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Speaker 3: No, there's there's a set where I can I can

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lay out the layout without even having to do that right,

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Yes too, and they'll just be audio.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So I'm just trying to fix that up here. In

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the meantime, I'm gonna I'm gonna get this together. What

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would you just going through on your last.

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Speaker 4: Live I was going to go on what the early

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Christian writer said about Daniel's trinitarianism messianism, but God had

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me go super I mean it was super and depth

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on the internal, reckless structure of the Bible as proof

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of its inspirations. It was I would reckon meant all

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Christians to watch it. Really, it's the way God designed

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these books. You can see God's hand behind them, but

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for his glory. It's it's reckless, it's collection. But without

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saying I'll follow your lead, mister, I guess Jay forgot us.

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What happened to shoot?

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Speaker 1: Maybe you sleep? He's sleep, he knocked out.

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Speaker 4: This is what it is?

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Speaker 1: All right? There we go. Now that works, There we go,

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So now I can do it.

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Speaker 4: The handsome light brown hair dude, he's right there.

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Speaker 5: I wrote down the wrong days, so I thought it

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was tomorrow. But uh, I remember?

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Speaker 1: Oh so you did remember us, but you just wrote

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down the wrong day. I did. Story nice, It's okay.

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I forgive you, man, I forgive you. Good to have

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you here. What's up? Now? You're doing all right? Great?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, just been super super busy. I'm glad to be

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back with you guys though, for sure.

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Speaker 3: All right, so we got we got most of the

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mob girl on the panel. How you doing, man?

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Speaker 1: Hello? How you guys doing? Pretty good? Pretty good?

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Speaker 4: Man?

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Speaker 3: Pretty good? So what did you have a question for us?

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Did you want to show? Do you want to bring

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in evidence on Islam being true?

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Speaker 1: What you got? Uh?

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Speaker 6: Since you guys are on the opposite how about you

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guys start this?

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Speaker 2: Is this that? So?

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Speaker 3: What are you talking about man Ah, Zach, why do

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you keep trying to come up and on different names

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and and different you know, why do you keep going?

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Speaker 5: Because you guys are cowards.

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Speaker 4: You guys, that's what we're riding behind the camera.

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Speaker 7: Well, if you guys got the balls to talk, well.

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Speaker 4: I got a snack for you down girl es.

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Speaker 1: Sam, how's the plumber? How's the plumber?

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Speaker 4: She's been writing him?

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Speaker 1: Thanks for coming man. So uh, there was a zact

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that converted to Christianity. I confused it with that Zach.

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That's not the right one.

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Speaker 4: But okay, yes, so what if you correct, I'm the

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bad cop to your good cop.

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Speaker 3: Oh absolutely, man, And by the way, you will be

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proven to be a false prophet.

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Speaker 1: Just letting you know exactly.

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Speaker 4: Happy birthday moment. It's his birthday Friday thirteenth.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, let's bring a nam up. How you doing it now?

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Speaker 7: Hey, guys, how's it going?

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Speaker 1: Pretty good? Pretty good? I didn't put you on the

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big screen too.

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Speaker 4: There you go.

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Speaker 6: Nice to see you again, brother, Sam and Jay. My

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first time meeting you. But I saw you did a

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debate with Coreggian the set of a contest.

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Speaker 7: You did an amazing job, I thought, Jay.

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Speaker 5: Oh yeah, that was That was about five years ago.

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Speaker 1: Thank you. Yeah, I forgot about that.

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Speaker 4: Oh really is this? Are you the one that has

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been with David Wood and postly profit.

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Speaker 7: No.

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Speaker 6: I spoke to David Wood once, but I'm the trinitarian Muslim.

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So we had a nice talk and then you came

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on every show.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that's I got you something over that.

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Speaker 7: Debate, so you know, and I'm intividated because I have

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both of you.

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Speaker 6: You know, I wasn't expecting Jay, but you know, I'm

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still a Muslim nominally, even though I've come to realize that,

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like I was mistaken in being against the Trinity, and

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I mean to help j because Jay doesn't know me

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or about me. I had a religious experience when I

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was about twenty two years old, so I believe, you know,

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Christ kind of well spoke to me, I guess, like

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without words or without seeing him, and I realized, like,

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you know, you know, ever since I was fourteen, I

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would like look at the New Testament and I would

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try to memorize the subordinationist arguments and I knew all

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of them. And then one day I feel like the

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Holy Spirit just hit me on the head with the

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two by four and that kind of bless you.

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Speaker 4: How are you still a Muslim if you're trying to

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tarian that's weird? Yeah it is.

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Speaker 7: I'll can see to you.

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Speaker 6: I'm definitely like a church of a church of one,

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and I'm not happy about that position. But you know

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I would I would say, though, yes, in the name

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of the Father and the Son and so.

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Speaker 7: Or and nomine patre at philiates. It's also a good formula.

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But and so but I feel like, you know, I.

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Speaker 6: Would submit you guys this thesis, you know, just to

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not to you know, because also one of the things is,

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you know, you guys have a hard job avery too.

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It's like you deal with trolls and sincere people, personal attacks,

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abuse and uh you know, I remember even Jay he

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was being picked on for you know, like uh, smoking

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weed or something by his opponent. So it's like it's

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so facetious, like nobody wants to talk about the arguments.

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They just want to talk about extreme stuff.

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Speaker 4: So but you know that's gone, Jo Jay, So I.

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Speaker 8: No longer is in the church.

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Speaker 5: I mean now in the make and change where we

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can do what we want brought out.

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Speaker 1: Good.

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Speaker 6: One thing one thing though, I would, you know, because

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and one of the things I like to come on

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every show is because you guys take so much abuse.

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I just like to come up and have like a

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different kind of conversation other.

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Speaker 4: Than give me a hug, because I need a hug, because.

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Speaker 1: We need a safe space.

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Speaker 7: You had a great discussion with doctor Khalil and Donnie though.

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I really liked that discussion.

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Speaker 6: And by the way, I find myself agreeing with you

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most of the time, brother Sam.

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Speaker 4: But I do need a hug because you know that

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Plumber really did the number on me.

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Speaker 6: So the thing is that could I submit, like to

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you guys, maybe a thesis right, because I feel like

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Islam is an offshoot of Christianity. I know, brothers would

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like not like me for saying that, and I know

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we don't want to say that because obviously our first

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thing is that, you know, we're not derivative, you know,

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But I feel like, especially when you look at Orthodox

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you know, Christianity and the monaster tradition, like monks were

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so important in the third, fourth, fifth centuries. It's Saint

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Isaac of Ninbay saying, Gregory of Nissa, you know I'm

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The Codex Sinidicus was written by the monastery at Saint

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Catharine's and the SINAI.

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Speaker 7: So, like, if you.

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Speaker 6: Didn't have this like monastic tradition, people who just gave

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up the world for Christ, you really wouldn't have Like,

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I mean, that was so important in the first.

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Speaker 7: Few centuries of Christianity, and it's hard for us to.

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Speaker 6: Fathom today because you know, who wants to live in

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a monastery now it's not really are.

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Speaker 4: You affirming the monastic life? Yeah?

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Speaker 7: I think, I mean, I I'm I would love to discern.

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Speaker 4: It the kron where it says they invented it.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, but hold on, it also says though God will

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accept it of them because of their good intentions.

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Speaker 4: They do it rightly if they do it correctly.

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Speaker 6: But don't condemned them for being celibate, by the way,

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even though God never told them to be selling.

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Speaker 7: What am I selling?

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Speaker 4: Because you said you celibate? What are you selling?

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Speaker 2: No?

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Speaker 7: No selling me, no sex.

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Speaker 4: Oh, I'm sorry, I'm I'm a little under the weather.

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I'm sorry.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 6: So, So the thing is that I would like to

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suggest to you, guys.

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Speaker 7: I'd like to suggest to you guys.

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Speaker 6: You know that, like you know, Islam was deeply influenced

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by these Christian monastics. And in fact, even yesterday, Avery

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was talking about the story of Alexander arriving at the

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setting of the sun in the muddy spring, and that

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comes from an Aramaic tradition of where Alexander finds the

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sun setting in the spring of muddy water.

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Speaker 7: So I feel like, you know this.

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Speaker 4: Brother before you move on. Really, you really confuse me,

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because you're amazing different. So you're admitting the Conan is Alexander.

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They're great.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, I don't see how else who else it could be.

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Speaker 4: Dude, You're not a Muslim anymore, So why don't you

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just give it up?

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Speaker 7: I know Avery's trying to tell me the same thing, Avery.

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Speaker 4: Not a muscl because you're admitting to everyone in chapter

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eighteen Rade eighty three to ninety eight the two horn

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one is Alexander. And yet all the evidence we have

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is that Alexander was not a believer, in spite of

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what later legends say. And le Kron says that he

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was a believer who followed the law. But you know

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historically that's not the case.

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Speaker 7: Right, yeah, I mean historically he probably wasn't.

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Speaker 4: So then you're saying the Krwan is wrong. So how

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are you following the crew?

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Speaker 1: You know?

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Speaker 6: Okay, like I said, I'm okay, that is okay. You

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do have me nailed there, brother Stam. I would just

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say this, right, like, I think he was kind of

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like a pluralist king and maybe he might have had

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like a monotheistic ethic. I don't know, but he was

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marrying Persian wives out of like practicality, you know, you

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have to marry, like I mean, he had the largest

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landmass empire the world ever had.

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Speaker 1: And it's over repeat after me, man, also.

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Speaker 6: Do anyway, hold on, hold on, hold on, okay, you

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know what actually, so if you want to go, okay,

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I don't want to go. If you want to if

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that that's a discussion, you know, life was having me

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repeat after him too, right, right. But the thing is, though,

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I don't want to have that discussion about how you

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enter Christianity, right because in other words, I mean, with

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all due respective right, my religion is the one that

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you enter faith upon giving testimony as witness your religion,

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especially in the seventh century, the way you enter the

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faith is through baptism of water.

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Speaker 4: So yeah, but if you're a convert, it's not either

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or because if he read Romans ten nine to thirteen

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and Romans six three to six and Acts twenty two sixteen,

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and your act of baptism, there has to be a confession.

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There is a confession that you confess with your Moutj's Lorden,

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calling upon his name. That's done at baptism. If you

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look at Acts twenty two sixteen with Paul's own conversion,

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which he mentions Romans sixty three to six and Romans

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ten nine to thirteen. So in your act of baptism,

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you have to make that confession. Does You're a convert,

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You're not an infant. We're not baptizing as anything.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah, I have a what's stopping you?

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Speaker 8: Well?

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Speaker 6: You know, could I I feel like, okay, what's stopping

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me is you know I was telling this avery yesterday.

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Speaker 1: Actually.

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Speaker 6: You know, so I grew up in a Muslim family,

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Muslim culture, Muslim tradition. I liked most of it, right,

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it gave me my morality and you know, like not

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for nothing, right, Uh. You know, Islam actually like teaches

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you to study the other religions, right, like to read

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those holy books and to analyze them and to and

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to like you know, there was Islam gave me, even though,

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like I said, I was combative against Christianity in my

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teenage years, and then later I came to realize that

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I was wrong in my criticism and that you know,

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I thought the news Testament was a jumble of contradictions,

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but when you read it with faith, you see that

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it's a cohesive whole.

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Speaker 7: It's telling you.

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Speaker 6: You know, the Gospels paint an image, a stereo image

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of the Christ, so it's very valuable to read those works.

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But I would say, though, like, okay, so growing up Muslim,

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I feel like I feel like this is where I'm

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at right now. Right Islam started as a Christian movement

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composed of mostly monastics, you know, monks, monk types, people

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who were just borrowing from monasteries, which are the culture

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and centers of literacy back then. And then it eventually

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morphed into this combative relationship with Christianity.

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Speaker 1: But it used to.

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Speaker 6: Be somewhat concilia conciliatory or conciliatory even and then later

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you have this like antagonism. So I feel like I'm

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part of the I feel like original Islam would have

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been adjacent to Christianity, and and you know, like, for example,

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when you bring.

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Speaker 4: Up the argument real quickly, if you're going by the

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earliest evidence, and Jay is the expert in this area.

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But John of the Damascus, John the Demascene eighth century

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seven Unhoods, writing of the in Syria, says that Mohammad

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was actually preaching arianism, that there was a monk who

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was of the persuasion of arianism, taught what area is taught,

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and that's what ISLAMI So he agrees that it's a Sectivistlam,

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but it's arian. But you're a trinitarian.

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Speaker 3: Hey, Sam, after this point we're gonna move on to

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the next guest.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So let me just want.

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Speaker 4: To know, if you're a trinitarian Muslim, you're not even

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faithful to the type of Islam that Islam claimed to be.

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In other words, if I go by John of Damascus,

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Islam is an arian sector, so you would not be

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a trinitarian. You'd be an arian. But you're not an

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Aaron here a trinitarian. So historically you're out of Islam

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no matter how you slice.

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Speaker 5: The one thing I'll add to just to backup Sam's point,

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is that a lot of people for a long time

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had contentions with that claim of St. John Damascus that

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it was Arian and the historian monastics that influenced early Islam.

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But the present day Oxford Handbook of Islam, the whole

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chapter on early Islam in that book actually vindicates John Damascus,

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and today's scholars admit that it was early Aryan Historian

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Christianity that influenced Mohammed.

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Speaker 4: And to confirm further a little further, there is a

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head statement in that dice where when Muhammad is supposedly

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writing to Heraclius, I supposedly he then said he doesn't

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accept his uh conditions, then the guilt of the adisseeing

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will fall on you. That's the word at a seein

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there are scholars like ivaniyas Arcati who claimed that dyssean

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means what was done to the followers of Arius because

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of Byzantine Christianity, that judgment will fall on you. So

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if we go with that statement, that means Muhammad thought

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he was defending the followers of Arius.

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Speaker 1: Very interesting, So you've got to.

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Speaker 6: Go returns I read I read in a that's a

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that's a valid point. I would just the only thing understanding.

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And then you know, every once to move on to the

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next guest. I want to re respectful to my host,

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Saint johnath Damascus. His uh work was called the heresy

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of the is my lights. So that is the thesis

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that I'm proposing that this is an is heresy.

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Speaker 4: Rather than trinitarian.

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Speaker 7: Right, right, right, but work Islam? I got you. Thank you,

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beautiful talk to you guys. Nice meeting you, brother Jay,

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have a great evening.

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Speaker 1: See you later now in peace. Good to see you.

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Speaker 4: Wow, I'm baffled. But hey man, hopefully he'll get baptized soon.

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Let's see, we'll see. I don't know, we'll see trinitarians of.

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Speaker 3: The trinitarian Muslim. That's right, all right, Meals, you are

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on the panel. How you doing, Males, you're on the panel.

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Speaker 1: I'm doing great? Correct, Yes, welcome, welcome, welcome. So we're

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just we're just here.

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Speaker 3: We're inviting you to give us the best reason why

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Islam as true. So what what would you say is

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the best reason why you Beliem as true?

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Speaker 9: I won't got that broad because I'm not yet fully studied,

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but I'll start with this that for me, I think

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Mohammad is a true prophet.

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Speaker 1: And maybe you'll let me land with a few points.

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Speaker 3: You just give me one, give me one reason why

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you believe Muhammad is a is a true profit and

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we'll start there.

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Speaker 9: Now, I'm going to approach it from a negative aspect.

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I'm not going to approach it from a positive aspect.

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Then when I'm approaching it from a negative aspect, then

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compared to the Bible to someone but.

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Speaker 3: It's okay, just I just need a reason why you

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think Mohammed is a true prophet.

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Speaker 1: Will work from there, bro.

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Speaker 9: So one he talks about Moses, and he talks about

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the profits of God, and there's some kind of morality

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to what it brings, although there's a lot of, you know,

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negative things that she does.

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Speaker 1: And that's why I'm telling I'm going to approach it.

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From there. We can look at the life of David.

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Speaker 9: David as also coming did some of those crimes Solomon

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has committed some of the scenes.

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Speaker 1: And I'm was for a.

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Speaker 4: Second, when David committed those crimes, did God rebuke him

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and chasing him?

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Speaker 1: Absolutely?

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Speaker 4: When Solomon committed those crimes, God chasing him? Rebuke him?

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Speaker 1: Absolutely?

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Speaker 4: But when your prophet lusted for his adopted son's wife

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and then abolished adoption after marrying her, did Allah rebuke

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him or did Allah make that part of the divine legislation?

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Speaker 1: Alla picked it.

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Speaker 9: As a part of You know, he told him he

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shouldn't be afraid to do this exactly that he has

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already planned for.

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Speaker 1: This to happen.

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Speaker 4: So I want everyone hear what you said. I'll already

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planned Muhammad to commit adulterine us art lust for a

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married woman and lust for his adopted son's wife, causing

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the divorce to marry her and the destroy adoption. So

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your God create this, So how can I be the

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God of the Bible.

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Speaker 9: I'm just coming with a claim that when God decreased something,

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this is my claim. This is my particular claim. When

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God decreased something, you, as a human, you have no

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authority to say that it's not moral. In fact, I'm

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just trying to say God moral basis.

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Speaker 4: I don't assume God decreated. That's the argument. What he's

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given you prove to us Allah is the God who decreated,

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because you went to the Bible. When I look at

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the character of the God of the Bible, he condemns

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what your God had your prophet do. So they're not

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the same God. So why should we believe Mohammad.

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Speaker 9: I'm just trying to say that there is a particular

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claim that Allah is the most powerful. It's the all

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knowing and it's the only present God. So when I'm

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putting that claim.

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Speaker 4: Down present, I don't mean because you're making I don't

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mean to cut you up, but I'm trying to see

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because you believe Allah's present everywhere.

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Speaker 1: Oh, come on, like you're going to ask me, what do.

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Speaker 8: We come on?

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Speaker 4: The self is don't believe that. They don't believe that.

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Speaker 1: Some let's just go with simple argument.

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Speaker 2: Again.

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Speaker 4: The self is saying Allah is present bias knowledge, but

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he himself is not omnipresent. Do you believe that?

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Speaker 9: No, I've just retracted my statement. I've just said that

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I'm not sure about the omnipresent. So I don't feel

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like maybe you need to go ahead on me on that.

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Speaker 1: But claim God.

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Speaker 9: My claim is so simple that God has that power

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to declare the things that you perceive us wrong. It

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can declare them as right because initially we know so

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well that morality depends on God. So you can't make

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a claim that one day God now decides something that

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you've been thinking that it's immoral. Now it turns it

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another day, it makes it to be moral. So then

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you have to be wondering like, oh, like, no, God

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has now become immral when you know so well is

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the source of morality. So in this specifical context where

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Summer's brought up, where the issue with Zaid and Mohammad,

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I'm just trying to put that concept and in that

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context that that day God decided that giving the wife

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of Zaid to Muhammad is something that was necessary. I

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don't know how it was necessary, but I'm very specific

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with the I.

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Speaker 4: Want want to hear what you said. You're admitting Allah

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gave a man's wife to your prophet.

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Speaker 9: That's what's written. It's right there. I can't deny that.

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Speaker 4: So you'd met that. But then the example was and

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then Jay is the one who knows logic, he can

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and coming puddles. But I just want everyone here this.

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I'm right, you're honest enough to admit that. But the

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example for Mohammad doing was that, according to thirty three

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to thirty seven, was so that he could set an

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example for other men to also marry the divorce wives

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of their adopted sons, right exactly. Yeah, okay, good, you're honest,

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I really respect that because I have to force with

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it now. But then you then know that that right

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afterwards abolished adoption.

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Speaker 1: Right exactly? I know that?

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Speaker 4: Oh good? You know? So then what kind of example

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was Mohammed setting by marrying the divorced wife of the

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adopted son so the other people can do it? When

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all I knew is going to bolish adoption.

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Speaker 9: This kind of feels like, you know, like a long

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term effect on the things, because I'm going to be

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very honest, I don't know what's the top was or

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was the principle that all is trying to play with

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us there about giving more men, giving Zaid's wife to Muhammad.

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But yeah, I want you to hear me out. I

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want you to hear me out like.

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Speaker 4: And I'll hear you are just one more question, okay,

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one more and I promise you. Here's it. So you

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Allah took a more woman, okay, Zaiad was married to

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this woman and he was intimate with her. Now said

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has to look to that woman as his mother, even

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at one time he was intimate her and having sex.

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Some don't you think there's somewhere with that picture a

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woman that I slept with and had sex with. Now

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she's one of the mothers of the believers, and I

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have to look at her as my mother. You don't,

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You don't have a problem with that picture.

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Speaker 1: Some you do.

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Speaker 9: You you do realize that I admitted that. Okay, personally,

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I don't agree with that, with the whole of that concept. Personally,

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I don't agree with it. But I want you to

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hear me out. Just give me this time. Hear me out.

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I personally I don't agree with that whole concept of

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Zaid's wife.

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Speaker 1: Becoming Mohammad's wife, but me out.

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Speaker 9: My point is God can decide one day that killing

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all humans on Earth is moral, then he can do it.

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I want you to hear me from that perspective. He

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can decide one day killing all humans on planet Earth

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is moral, then he can do it. Then we have

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nothing against him. Although you guys can come across then

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say that, okay, that's not God, because but we know

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sowhere that God one day can decide that it's an

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open possibility. Then I'm going to tie you to the

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issue of David and best seback. When David commits adults

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you best God knows it's a saying. And God comes

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and rebukes David about it. After he rebukes David about it,

472
00:23:48,079 --> 00:23:51,119
there is a punishment that David faces, and that punishment

473
00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:53,640
is that be Shebar gives birth and.

474
00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:56,240
Speaker 1: The child dies. I don't know if I'm correct on that.

475
00:23:56,799 --> 00:23:58,640
Speaker 4: Yes, I can serve about it.

476
00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:04,880
Speaker 9: So take it from this perspective. But Seba gives back

477
00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:09,119
the child died. We know back then God says, no

478
00:24:09,279 --> 00:24:11,400
child will be paying for the sin of who.

479
00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:16,599
Speaker 4: Yeah, you're you're taking. You're going to aniculating to run,

480
00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:19,599
you're taking You're jumping from here.

481
00:24:19,599 --> 00:24:22,680
Speaker 9: And I'm going to bring the argument to the issue

482
00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:24,440
of Zaid. I'm going to bring it back. I'm going

483
00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:25,160
to ammonize it.

484
00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:28,880
Speaker 4: There's no more. Let me explain why I'm going to

485
00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:32,359
commonize it. Just let me dress your false analogy. I

486
00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:34,039
know you want to preach. Take it is, it's not

487
00:24:34,079 --> 00:24:34,559
just preaching.

488
00:24:34,599 --> 00:24:36,400
Speaker 1: No, no, let me let me finish the argument.

489
00:24:37,279 --> 00:24:37,559
Speaker 4: Okay.

490
00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:40,359
Speaker 9: So the point is there is there is a time

491
00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:45,119
that God said that it's moral to not punish the

492
00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:48,240
child in the place of the fad. But today, in

493
00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:51,279
terms of David.

494
00:24:50,839 --> 00:24:52,839
Speaker 4: You're miss coding. This is the third time I just

495
00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:57,160
told you you're miss coding. Drawing me five listen twenty

496
00:24:57,160 --> 00:25:00,519
four sixteen, and you're mis supplying, issulating. So that's why

497
00:25:00,559 --> 00:25:03,839
I say stop preaching. Let me correct your mistake. The

498
00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:06,880
mistake is so you cut me off. We're not in conversation.

499
00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:09,279
Do you want to go preach a shab Ali? Let

500
00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:13,799
me address your mistake. If you read his eighteen in context,

501
00:25:14,519 --> 00:25:19,799
that has nothing to do with whether someone's actions can

502
00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:23,720
affect some hell good or about. In other words, if

503
00:25:23,759 --> 00:25:27,039
I'm a drunk driver and I smash into a car

504
00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:30,359
and I kill everyone that car, they suffer because of

505
00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:33,519
my sin, but they're not punished for my sin. I'll

506
00:25:33,559 --> 00:25:37,880
be held accountable for that sin. You're confusing apples and pineapples. Now,

507
00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:40,839
let me come back and address why God took that child,

508
00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:44,200
because this is the mercy of God. Explain why if

509
00:25:44,279 --> 00:25:46,599
that child was allowed to belived, that would be a

510
00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:49,359
stigma because everyone would know that child is the fruit

511
00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:52,559
of adultery. So God, in his first he could take

512
00:25:52,599 --> 00:25:55,799
that child in a state of grace. That child now

513
00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:58,079
would dwell with God. Because we're not atheists, we believe

514
00:25:58,079 --> 00:26:01,359
in our life that child now liz with God and

515
00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:05,000
he's not punished. But that child is spared the scorn

516
00:26:05,519 --> 00:26:10,720
and the stigma of being oppressed and being viewed as

517
00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:14,799
a bastard steed of an adulterous relationship. But you don't

518
00:26:14,839 --> 00:26:16,559
see the wisdom of luck because you're not reading the

519
00:26:16,599 --> 00:26:17,920
scripture in its context.

520
00:26:19,599 --> 00:26:22,599
Speaker 9: Oh come on, okay, I'm listening. I'm listening right now.

521
00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:25,359
I think this is part of Lenny, so I'm kind

522
00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:25,880
of listening.

523
00:26:26,599 --> 00:26:31,440
Speaker 5: So I think there's another mistake that's being made, which

524
00:26:31,519 --> 00:26:33,119
is that in the argument that you gave, if I

525
00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:35,559
understood it about the situation of.

526
00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:40,119
Speaker 1: Zayid, you were li likening it to God flooding the world.

527
00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:44,200
Speaker 5: It's not a situation where something is moral or immoral,

528
00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:48,440
just based on God's arbitrary decree at that moment.

529
00:26:48,839 --> 00:26:50,279
Speaker 1: The reason that the world was.

530
00:26:50,279 --> 00:26:52,880
Speaker 5: Flooded was because humans were wicked, So it's an action

531
00:26:53,039 --> 00:26:56,279
of justice in the same situation with these other cases,

532
00:26:56,400 --> 00:26:58,920
like when God makes these judgments, it's because of sin

533
00:26:59,039 --> 00:27:02,759
and wickedness. It's not that he is arbitrarily just deciding Okay,

534
00:27:02,839 --> 00:27:06,160
right now, this is good, and then tomorrow I'm gonna

535
00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:08,279
switch and this is going to be evil tomorrow. So

536
00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:10,400
good can't become evil and evil can become good.

537
00:27:13,039 --> 00:27:15,559
Speaker 1: Okay, I'm getting I'm getting that one.

538
00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:20,200
Speaker 9: But you do agree with me that therese morality is

539
00:27:20,279 --> 00:27:25,240
tied to God. And when Muslims as as Muslims come

540
00:27:25,319 --> 00:27:29,359
across and see that, okay, you guys know that morality

541
00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:31,440
is tied to God. We are saying that God has

542
00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:33,880
declared this to be moral. We are getting our more.

543
00:27:34,279 --> 00:27:37,680
We are we are making a claim this moral authority,

544
00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:40,960
this action of moral authority. We are taking it to

545
00:27:41,079 --> 00:27:43,160
the most powerful God, who is Allah.

546
00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:46,920
Speaker 5: So do you believe that it's just what he decrees

547
00:27:47,319 --> 00:27:50,359
called theological voluntarism? And so all I could could decree

548
00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:52,680
the evils good or the good is evil. We don't

549
00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:56,000
believe that. We believe that things have natures, they have qualities.

550
00:27:56,519 --> 00:27:59,519
God can't lie and say that good suddenly today is

551
00:27:59,559 --> 00:28:01,960
evil and in three years, Oh now I actually I've

552
00:28:02,039 --> 00:28:02,559
changed my mind.

553
00:28:02,599 --> 00:28:03,680
Speaker 1: Now evil is actually good.

554
00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:07,559
Speaker 5: Why because, as Paul says, it is impossible for God

555
00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:11,559
to lie, because God's character dictates his actions, because he

556
00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:14,160
has the holy nature, holy character, he will never do

557
00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:17,599
something evil or declare good to be evil. But I

558
00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:21,319
understand your qur'an Allah is actually a really cunning deceiver

559
00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:25,400
and he tricks people with phantasms of Jesus being you know,

560
00:28:25,559 --> 00:28:27,640
killed on the cross, but it didn't really happen. So

561
00:28:27,759 --> 00:28:31,119
you actually have a god who literally engages in descuption

562
00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:31,880
and lies.

563
00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:45,920
Speaker 1: We don't. It's not the same. Okay, okay, ok but okay, okay, okay, okay,

564
00:28:46,559 --> 00:28:48,559
can you give us money?

565
00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:52,839
Speaker 4: The prophet, because we spent twenty minutes on morality, he

566
00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:54,759
wants an argument for one among this p Can you

567
00:28:54,799 --> 00:28:56,640
give us at least something so we don't talk about

568
00:28:56,680 --> 00:29:00,200
morality and how it can change depending on circumstances to all,

569
00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:02,079
I can do what he wants. What's the proof of

570
00:29:02,079 --> 00:29:02,839
man as a prophet?

571
00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:08,000
Speaker 9: That's what Okay, I'll just go with the you know,

572
00:29:08,599 --> 00:29:11,400
the the kind of influence that he has, it's kind

573
00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:14,799
of in it's kind of parallel. It's parallel to the

574
00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:18,960
kind of influence that Jesus has. So I don't know

575
00:29:19,039 --> 00:29:21,759
if God is just sitting down and if Mommad was

576
00:29:21,799 --> 00:29:23,599
a false prophet, I don't know if God is just

577
00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:26,240
sitting down and saying that, okay, this money is so

578
00:29:26,319 --> 00:29:30,240
powerful is overtaking me in terms of you know, people

579
00:29:30,319 --> 00:29:31,559
were believing in him.

580
00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:35,759
Speaker 1: And the impact that he has. I don't know if

581
00:29:36,039 --> 00:29:37,839
how you guys, can all of.

582
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:41,839
Speaker 5: The people who believe in false polytheistic religions.

583
00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:43,799
Speaker 1: Are they also of God? Is that?

584
00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:47,480
Speaker 5: Does that prove that polytheism true? Because probably the majority

585
00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:49,359
of the world still believes in some kind of polytheism,

586
00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:50,759
I can do them right.

587
00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:58,119
Speaker 9: I wouldn't talk for Hindism because I don't know anything

588
00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:00,839
about Indism, but if they do.

589
00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:01,799
Speaker 1: You understand the meaning.

590
00:30:03,119 --> 00:30:05,440
Speaker 5: The point is that the argument that you made was

591
00:30:05,559 --> 00:30:10,720
that God wouldn't allow this influence to be there unless

592
00:30:10,799 --> 00:30:14,759
it was of God. And by the same token, Hinduism

593
00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:18,359
has duped millions, perhaps billions of people. So why isn't

594
00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:19,079
Hinduism true?

595
00:30:19,799 --> 00:30:24,240
Speaker 4: Yeah, especially in India, the Hindu the miltenants are persecutting Muslims, Christions,

596
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:25,200
they seem to be dominant.

597
00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:29,880
Speaker 9: But that one is on on a scale of India,

598
00:30:30,079 --> 00:30:33,160
So on a skill of the whole art, it depends.

599
00:30:33,759 --> 00:30:35,640
I don't know if you believe that getting my argument.

600
00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:38,279
Speaker 1: My argument is that's an arbitrary point. That's why it

601
00:30:38,279 --> 00:30:38,839
doesn't worry.

602
00:30:38,839 --> 00:30:41,839
Speaker 5: It's a bad argument because it's arbitrary. So like, what's

603
00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:44,519
the number by which is it? What two billion? Two

604
00:30:44,599 --> 00:30:46,519
billion people believe it? Then it's true and of God

605
00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:49,960
one billion. That's the point is that it's arbitrary. It

606
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:54,240
doesn't make any sense. It's not going to be fun

607
00:30:54,319 --> 00:30:55,160
by the number of people.

608
00:30:55,599 --> 00:30:58,319
Speaker 1: So what the religion becomes true when one billion and

609
00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:00,319
one person believe it? I mean, it's this is a

610
00:31:00,319 --> 00:31:03,319
silly argument, my friend.

611
00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:05,319
Speaker 4: We have a good argument. Why don't you come back

612
00:31:05,799 --> 00:31:08,880
so others can ask questions. We appreciate you, but we've

613
00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:12,000
been spending a number situation.

614
00:31:13,319 --> 00:31:14,799
Speaker 1: Would you allow me to talk to one question on

615
00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:15,279
the Bible?

616
00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:19,240
Speaker 4: It depends, I don't know, until.

617
00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:22,559
Speaker 9: As up to you guys if you want to continue,

618
00:31:22,599 --> 00:31:25,519
and it should we move on only one question on

619
00:31:25,599 --> 00:31:29,160
the Bible like a kind of mental contradition, so you

620
00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:30,119
guys might explain.

621
00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:34,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, so let me just get the bus right now?

622
00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:42,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, okay, so we're keeping them. Yeah, I let

623
00:31:43,039 --> 00:31:44,400
them bring it because that's all they can do is

624
00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:46,640
bring a legends of the Bible. But they don't understand

625
00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:48,680
this is the burial the Jenasm Mohammed. That's why I like,

626
00:31:48,759 --> 00:31:51,559
this guy's talking about scribal here and these guys don't

627
00:31:51,559 --> 00:31:55,559
get it. But it's tiring, man. Yeah, yeah, but go ahead.

628
00:31:57,759 --> 00:32:02,680
He's now going to maybe so the no first one

629
00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:05,519
we don't have. Yeah, just give me one so I

630
00:32:05,559 --> 00:32:06,960
can show why Mohammed is in hell.

631
00:32:08,759 --> 00:32:11,400
Speaker 1: Mathy ten nine to ten, No.

632
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:14,680
Speaker 4: Go idea.

633
00:32:19,799 --> 00:32:24,799
Speaker 1: Two ten ninety ten. Yeah, no's talking about you know,

634
00:32:25,119 --> 00:32:27,599
go out, don't go with that stuff. Then louve.

635
00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:31,319
Speaker 4: Then it says take us that. I never heard that before. No,

636
00:32:34,319 --> 00:32:37,200
I never heard that before because number one.

637
00:32:37,759 --> 00:32:40,519
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm just just nice. I'm whee that.

638
00:32:41,319 --> 00:32:44,799
Speaker 4: Yeah, buddy, I know the argument before Mohammed had you

639
00:32:45,279 --> 00:32:49,079
descend upon him and squeeze him to the point that

640
00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:52,400
he thought he was going to die. This objection has

641
00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:55,119
already been answered. But one second before I answered, because

642
00:32:55,119 --> 00:32:57,359
I just want to screen share for a minute. One

643
00:32:57,440 --> 00:33:00,759
second we want a screen share, want of us? Now

644
00:33:01,119 --> 00:33:04,759
you know if the Bible has a contradiction, because that's

645
00:33:04,759 --> 00:33:06,799
why I don't ways time with muslim who ask contradiction,

646
00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:08,559
because we're not answer because I'm gonna show you now.

647
00:33:09,039 --> 00:33:13,279
Now I'm going to open this up. Writer, Now can

648
00:33:13,359 --> 00:33:16,599
you open up my screen? Gee, I've never heard dis

649
00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:20,680
argument before. And GES's commissioned to twelve disciples. Were they

650
00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:22,039
or were they not to take staff?

651
00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:23,240
Speaker 1: Damn? This guy caught me.

652
00:33:23,319 --> 00:33:27,599
Speaker 4: He slammed me. All right, now, the answer is simple.

653
00:33:27,599 --> 00:33:30,960
If you look at particular Greek words used by different authors,

654
00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:33,880
they're not communicating the same point. If we look at

655
00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:36,400
the Greek terminology means you're not taking expo staff. But

656
00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:38,799
I'm not here and I don't have time to unpack it.

657
00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:43,000
Mircle's there. I'm going to concede your argument. There's a contradiction.

658
00:33:43,759 --> 00:33:49,359
Why are you still a because there's stories on masking

659
00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:54,519
number one, if the con tells you're using Christian that

660
00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:56,680
they are nothing until they have pulled the poor. In

661
00:33:56,720 --> 00:33:59,480
the Gospel, all relation given to them, so that didn't mind.

662
00:34:00,039 --> 00:34:04,160
By sixty eight and we're told that the chron confirms

663
00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:06,720
what is between there is between his hands, and that's

664
00:34:06,799 --> 00:34:08,599
all throughout the chrome. I mean, I can give you

665
00:34:08,679 --> 00:34:12,679
the list, all right, Just give you a few death

666
00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:16,599
by forty eight, Chapter three, verse three. You conclude four

667
00:34:17,119 --> 00:34:21,000
we can go to. But I've so many times the

668
00:34:21,119 --> 00:34:24,719
only scriptures that these Christians had at the time of Muhammad.

669
00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:27,960
Needs you to listen to me. The only scriptures that

670
00:34:28,119 --> 00:34:33,800
the Christians had at the time of Muhammad are Matthew, Mark, Luke,

671
00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:35,960
and John and the rest of you just told me

672
00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:40,719
they have contradictories, but Muhammad says that Allah commands them

673
00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:46,039
to pull the Gospel and all the relation that has

674
00:34:46,079 --> 00:34:48,000
come to them. So if I'm a Christian, I hear

675
00:34:48,039 --> 00:34:51,920
mom and say, hey, Baldi, you are Syrian heretic. Yeah,

676
00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:56,199
you need to follow the torn Gospel, the relation that's

677
00:34:56,239 --> 00:34:59,199
with you. Oh, so I follow my New Testament. So

678
00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:03,039
all was telling me follow this New Testament. You're telling

679
00:35:03,079 --> 00:35:05,840
me it as contradictions. So it's all a wrong and

680
00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:06,920
you know more than a long.

681
00:35:07,559 --> 00:35:11,519
Speaker 9: Okay, I totally get your point. But so you admit

682
00:35:11,679 --> 00:35:14,039
it's I want to make I want I want.

683
00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:18,280
Speaker 4: To answer, are you by the gin?

684
00:35:19,039 --> 00:35:21,079
Speaker 1: So you admit it's a contradition. I want to just.

685
00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:26,599
Speaker 4: Here, I just posted the article that answers the contradiction

686
00:35:26,639 --> 00:35:28,679
in front of your eyes. Or is the gin blinding you?

687
00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:31,239
It's right there on the screen. Do you see the

688
00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:33,039
answer here?

689
00:35:34,039 --> 00:35:34,559
Speaker 10: Right here?

690
00:35:36,239 --> 00:35:38,559
Speaker 4: Did you repeat what my answer was to you to

691
00:35:38,599 --> 00:35:43,920
see if you're even listening. I just said, we've answered

692
00:35:44,639 --> 00:35:48,679
the contradiction. But I said that I'm not wasting my

693
00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:53,559
time answering because if there's a contradiction, you admit Mohammed's

694
00:35:53,559 --> 00:35:55,760
in hell and I'll say, because Allah didn't know what

695
00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:57,960
he's talking about, So do you admit Alla stupid?

696
00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:01,039
Speaker 1: Actually, that's not my point.

697
00:36:01,119 --> 00:36:03,519
Speaker 9: My whole point was to ask a question if do

698
00:36:03,599 --> 00:36:06,239
you recognize it as a contradition or is there an

699
00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:07,199
explanation to it?

700
00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:10,960
Speaker 4: But I want you to say, because you're Muslim, I

701
00:36:11,079 --> 00:36:14,320
want you to say, I reject Islam and the churn

702
00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:16,280
because the chron is wrong about the Gospels. So then

703
00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:18,960
we can put that aside, and then I can answer

704
00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:20,679
if you sincerely want to believe the Bible. So do

705
00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:22,679
you agree Mohammad doesn't know what he's talking about.

706
00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:28,400
Speaker 1: I kind of feel what you're saying, but I wanted.

707
00:36:28,519 --> 00:36:30,480
Speaker 4: You agree he's wrong because he says the Bible is

708
00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:31,760
the uncropt preserve words of God.

709
00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:36,159
Speaker 1: He's not wrong on that. He's not wrong on that

710
00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:39,440
when he says Matthew, Mark and Luke.

711
00:36:39,559 --> 00:36:42,920
Speaker 4: So wait, he's not wrong that the Bible is the

712
00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:46,039
word of God. And at the same time, you just

713
00:36:46,119 --> 00:36:48,519
said the Bible has contradictions, So you mean all that's

714
00:36:48,559 --> 00:36:49,599
okay with contradictions.

715
00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:52,360
Speaker 1: No, I didn't make an assasson I.

716
00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:56,119
Speaker 9: In fact, I give those specific verses to ask you

717
00:36:56,400 --> 00:36:59,119
because I feel like you know more about it to

718
00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:02,679
ask you, is it a contradition? So if it's a prediction,

719
00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:04,760
then I'm going to make my claim. If it's not,

720
00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:05,920
I cannot make my.

721
00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:09,199
Speaker 4: Tradection because if you read the article the writer, you're

722
00:37:09,239 --> 00:37:12,920
going to see that the Greek words employed tell my

723
00:37:14,079 --> 00:37:17,760
airol different words use in the context, and when you

724
00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:20,159
look at how the words are used, you're going to

725
00:37:20,239 --> 00:37:22,880
note that a careful reading of the different Greek wording

726
00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:27,079
implies that the instruction means you don't take an extra staff,

727
00:37:27,480 --> 00:37:34,079
because the words employed will give you that interpretation, as

728
00:37:34,159 --> 00:37:37,519
the entire article shows take up. But the whole point

729
00:37:37,599 --> 00:37:41,679
is there's an answer now that you'd make. The chron

730
00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:46,079
confirms the Bible's God, but the Chrown contracts the Bible.

731
00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:47,239
So is Mohammed Rod.

732
00:37:50,840 --> 00:37:55,960
Speaker 9: I feel like Kuran contradict the Bible. I don't feel

733
00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:58,880
like it makes it makes the kurank falls, because.

734
00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:03,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, like if.

735
00:38:05,519 --> 00:38:08,199
Speaker 4: The Korn tells me to follow my Bible, and that

736
00:38:08,559 --> 00:38:11,639
the chorn confirms my Bible, and I read Jesus as

737
00:38:11,639 --> 00:38:13,360
a son of God who died on the cross and

738
00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:16,199
rose again and returned as Lord of Lord, king of kings.

739
00:38:16,599 --> 00:38:19,920
The Koran and I so who's wrong now the Bible

740
00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:20,559
of the kron.

741
00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:27,559
Speaker 1: That's gonna be so difficult ones, man, I.

742
00:38:27,639 --> 00:38:29,679
Speaker 4: Know, man, that's why I gotta leave us Slam, come

743
00:38:29,719 --> 00:38:30,239
to Jesus.

744
00:38:33,519 --> 00:38:36,760
Speaker 1: Goa take my time like I'm reading for information.

745
00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:38,960
Speaker 4: Okay, let me get you that article if you want

746
00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:40,800
the answer, because it seems like you are sincere. Now

747
00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:44,159
go to the private chat, the private chat here, it

748
00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:47,239
is right here. If you look at the private chat,

749
00:38:47,239 --> 00:38:51,320
here's a link. Now there it is. You look sincere.

750
00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:53,400
And I think if you keep going this way from

751
00:38:53,440 --> 00:38:56,679
the way you're acting, we will have you joining us

752
00:38:56,719 --> 00:38:59,840
in glorifying Jesus Christ. So expose Muhammad and Jay will

753
00:38:59,840 --> 00:39:01,480
be kind of tell you what church you're go and

754
00:39:01,519 --> 00:39:02,719
get baptizing.

755
00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:04,960
Speaker 11: That.

756
00:39:07,079 --> 00:39:08,280
Speaker 1: I can't say anything to that.

757
00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:12,280
Speaker 4: But keep searching, brother, because you look since here, my brother, mamama,

758
00:39:12,719 --> 00:39:14,320
and it will be a matter of time you leave us,

759
00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:17,199
lamp and what do you do? Let God logic alsay

760
00:39:17,239 --> 00:39:18,199
share your testimony.

761
00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:23,920
Speaker 3: All right, let's go ahead and bring up next guest.

762
00:39:26,599 --> 00:39:33,239
Let's see what we got here. If Noulah Mohammed, if you.

763
00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:34,760
Speaker 4: Want to keep talking, my brother, I don't want to

764
00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:36,880
keep talking the time, So keep talking. Say what you

765
00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:37,559
need to see.

766
00:39:41,559 --> 00:39:41,920
Speaker 1: For Noula.

767
00:39:42,039 --> 00:39:52,719
Speaker 3: Mohammad A there, hello, going once, going twice? All right,

768
00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:58,360
he wasn't ready hit his camera on and everything, y'all go.

769
00:40:00,239 --> 00:40:02,000
Speaker 4: Remember he said I'm a liar. He says only to

770
00:40:02,039 --> 00:40:04,320
make people know little okay, goohe y, I guess you

771
00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:04,920
know a lot more.

772
00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:11,280
Speaker 1: Hello, you're on the panel. Can you hear me? Fortunately?

773
00:40:11,440 --> 00:40:12,639
Speaker 4: Becare he's gonna start cussing?

774
00:40:13,639 --> 00:40:18,320
Speaker 1: Hello? Yeah, what's what's up? What? What position you're coming from?

775
00:40:19,239 --> 00:40:20,039
Speaker 12: Can you guys hear me?

776
00:40:21,559 --> 00:40:27,800
Speaker 1: Yes? What position you're coming from?

777
00:40:27,880 --> 00:40:27,960
Speaker 2: Bro?

778
00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:29,719
Speaker 1: Can you hear me? Boy?

779
00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:33,000
Speaker 4: So yeah, I told you you heard them? No, he's

780
00:40:33,039 --> 00:40:35,000
making fun. Boy, he's the same guy the last troll.

781
00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:36,239
Speaker 2: All right.

782
00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:39,199
Speaker 4: The plumber didn't pay his mommy.

783
00:40:41,119 --> 00:40:41,960
Speaker 1: That's a different guy.

784
00:40:42,719 --> 00:40:44,360
Speaker 4: No, it came under a different nit because you see

785
00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:46,960
hear me, boy, I can sell you that I know.

786
00:40:47,159 --> 00:40:48,480
Speaker 1: I know the other guy. I know.

787
00:40:49,400 --> 00:40:51,480
Speaker 4: All right, so does the plumber.

788
00:40:54,119 --> 00:40:55,719
Speaker 1: Mohammed, you're on the panel. What's up?

789
00:40:56,719 --> 00:40:59,320
Speaker 12: Good afternoon? Good, well, good evening. How you guys doing today?

790
00:40:59,519 --> 00:40:59,960
Speaker 1: Pretty good?

791
00:41:00,039 --> 00:41:00,239
Speaker 13: Yeah?

792
00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:03,760
Speaker 1: Pretty good man, pretty good. We're asking why why do

793
00:41:03,800 --> 00:41:05,920
you guys believe Mohammad is a prophet? What's your what's

794
00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:06,519
your best reason?

795
00:41:07,800 --> 00:41:11,599
Speaker 12: Well, I think he's a prophet because there's a lot

796
00:41:11,639 --> 00:41:14,239
of people that wrote about him, and he is very

797
00:41:14,360 --> 00:41:21,000
influential in his character. And what's so funny?

798
00:41:21,519 --> 00:41:23,960
Speaker 1: Does that make John John Lennard a prophet too?

799
00:41:24,639 --> 00:41:27,039
Speaker 12: No, I'm not saying that, but I also wanted to

800
00:41:27,639 --> 00:41:32,199
piggyback on the panel that the discussion you guys had

801
00:41:32,599 --> 00:41:37,679
prior to with I forgot his name, but but I

802
00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:40,079
just think he was he was very influential because just

803
00:41:40,159 --> 00:41:40,360
of his.

804
00:41:40,480 --> 00:41:43,400
Speaker 5: Character, Marley a prophet.

805
00:41:44,199 --> 00:41:45,079
Speaker 12: No, he's not a prophet.

806
00:41:45,679 --> 00:41:47,519
Speaker 5: I mean people wrote about him. He was influential.

807
00:41:48,559 --> 00:41:52,280
Speaker 12: I'm not speaking literally about just like influential because everybody

808
00:41:52,280 --> 00:41:54,559
everybody's influencial. I mean you guys, you guys might have

809
00:41:54,920 --> 00:41:55,880
a sense of influence.

810
00:41:55,960 --> 00:41:58,400
Speaker 5: Well, your argument was that if you're written about influential,

811
00:41:58,480 --> 00:41:59,360
that makes your profit.

812
00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:02,800
Speaker 12: No, I was just I mean I was, I was

813
00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:05,679
going through a checklist. But he was influence and he

814
00:42:05,760 --> 00:42:09,880
had he had had miracles as well too, and for

815
00:42:10,039 --> 00:42:10,599
somebody that.

816
00:42:11,559 --> 00:42:14,639
Speaker 4: He had no miracles, don't deceive yourself, but answer his question.

817
00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:17,159
So he's asking, so you go back on that influence

818
00:42:17,199 --> 00:42:18,639
has nothing to do with him being a prophet.

819
00:42:19,639 --> 00:42:21,719
Speaker 12: No, it does have I mean, that's one of the things,

820
00:42:21,800 --> 00:42:23,519
but that's not the only thing. That's not what makes

821
00:42:23,639 --> 00:42:24,639
a profit a profit.

822
00:42:25,119 --> 00:42:27,079
Speaker 1: So what you got to have all the checklists? Five

823
00:42:27,159 --> 00:42:27,719
of them? Ten?

824
00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:31,679
Speaker 12: I mean he had miracles, just like Jesus made piece

825
00:42:31,719 --> 00:42:33,079
of the best we put them and all the profits

826
00:42:33,079 --> 00:42:33,840
that came prior.

827
00:42:33,679 --> 00:42:35,400
Speaker 4: To He had no miracles. But we'll get to that.

828
00:42:35,559 --> 00:42:35,960
Speaker 1: That's a lot.

829
00:42:36,119 --> 00:42:36,880
Speaker 4: Go ahead. Continue.

830
00:42:37,920 --> 00:42:39,480
Speaker 12: Why don't you think you had any miracles?

831
00:42:39,679 --> 00:42:41,880
Speaker 4: The chron says he didn't, So your later traditions that

832
00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:43,639
say he did means the Chron is a life.

833
00:42:45,119 --> 00:42:45,480
Speaker 2: I don't know.

834
00:42:46,320 --> 00:42:48,920
Speaker 12: Yeah, I don't. I don't specifically believe that. Can you

835
00:42:48,960 --> 00:42:49,760
show some evidence?

836
00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:51,840
Speaker 4: Yes, yes, In fact, I'll do you even one better.

837
00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:53,880
I'll give you an article. We're going to go through

838
00:42:54,119 --> 00:42:54,679
all the verses.

839
00:42:54,760 --> 00:42:54,960
Speaker 2: Yeah.

840
00:42:56,320 --> 00:43:00,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, The Cron says repeatedly, the reason why they were

841
00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:02,320
having a problem with Muhammed is because they're asking for

842
00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:05,039
a sign and no sign was given. So let me

843
00:43:05,159 --> 00:43:05,679
just open up.

844
00:43:05,960 --> 00:43:08,920
Speaker 12: Didn't they ask Jesus the same thing to do it?

845
00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:11,679
Speaker 4: Stop that nonsense, because in the same chapter, Jesus did miracles.

846
00:43:11,679 --> 00:43:13,480
Whereas the Kron says, I'm just the warner. I did

847
00:43:13,519 --> 00:43:15,199
no miracles. Stop getting the game.

848
00:43:16,039 --> 00:43:18,719
Speaker 12: He did miracles through God, through the power of God.

849
00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:22,800
Speaker 4: No, Jesus, Jesus, don't change the topic. I know you

850
00:43:22,840 --> 00:43:23,280
want to run.

851
00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:25,920
Speaker 12: I'm just answering the question.

852
00:43:25,960 --> 00:43:28,000
Speaker 4: The power that Jesus did the miracles was the power

853
00:43:28,039 --> 00:43:30,000
that belongs to the Father's suddenly spirit. And the proof

854
00:43:30,039 --> 00:43:32,840
of it is they did miracles in Jesus's name. They

855
00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:34,679
cast out demons in his name, they raised the dead

856
00:43:34,679 --> 00:43:35,199
in his name.

857
00:43:35,840 --> 00:43:39,440
Speaker 12: That's something the history of people casting out in qing.

858
00:43:39,599 --> 00:43:41,280
Speaker 4: Why don't you because I don't want to change the topic.

859
00:43:41,320 --> 00:43:42,800
I know you're scared like aisha, but you're not.

860
00:43:42,800 --> 00:43:46,159
Speaker 14: Going I'm not scared at all. Brother, I'm just going

861
00:43:46,199 --> 00:43:50,159
to stop. We're going to stick with the miracles. Don't run, easy, man,

862
00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:52,840
I know, of course, brother, of course, of course.

863
00:43:52,920 --> 00:43:53,280
Speaker 1: Always.

864
00:43:54,159 --> 00:43:58,400
Speaker 4: Now do me a favor, brother, screenshare, let me do it. Yeah,

865
00:43:58,400 --> 00:44:00,119
you see, that's what they do when it came to moment. Oh,

866
00:44:00,159 --> 00:44:02,239
what does the Bible? No, the Bible shows us thim

867
00:44:02,360 --> 00:44:05,400
is from Hell. Okay, here it is. I want now

868
00:44:05,480 --> 00:44:08,480
give you the link all the verses where your prophet

869
00:44:08,599 --> 00:44:14,239
did not do a single miracle not a single one, nada, nada.

870
00:44:14,320 --> 00:44:18,840
Here it is in the private chat writer. Okay, right,

871
00:44:18,920 --> 00:44:21,280
let's begin. Let me know when you want me to

872
00:44:21,280 --> 00:44:23,760
stop because it's too many showing your prophet was a father,

873
00:44:23,840 --> 00:44:27,400
did no miracles? Okay, okay. Chapter two, verse went eighteen.

874
00:44:28,039 --> 00:44:30,280
And they that know not say, why does God not

875
00:44:30,320 --> 00:44:32,440
speak to us? Why does a sign not come to us?

876
00:44:33,079 --> 00:44:37,039
So spoke those before them, as these men say, their

877
00:44:37,079 --> 00:44:39,920
hearts are much alike. We have made clear the signs

878
00:44:41,400 --> 00:44:46,719
until people are sure, all right? Thirty seven? They also

879
00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:49,960
say I have no sign? Why has no sign been

880
00:44:50,039 --> 00:44:54,320
sent down upon him? From his Lord? Say? Surely God

881
00:44:54,440 --> 00:44:56,280
is able to send down a sign, But most of

882
00:44:56,280 --> 00:45:00,000
the notice their lame explasion, God ken send this sign?

883
00:45:00,599 --> 00:45:02,559
We know you can't. Where's your sign?

884
00:45:02,960 --> 00:45:03,360
Speaker 8: Oops?

885
00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:04,320
Speaker 1: All right?

886
00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:04,599
Speaker 2: Six?

887
00:45:04,719 --> 00:45:08,480
Speaker 4: One or nine. They have sworn by God the most

888
00:45:08,559 --> 00:45:12,119
earnest oath if a sign comes to them, they will

889
00:45:12,280 --> 00:45:14,920
believe in it. See, Man, give us a sign, we're

890
00:45:14,920 --> 00:45:17,960
gonna believe. Say, signs are only with God. He We

891
00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:20,800
didn't know that. Thank you Allah for telling us something

892
00:45:20,840 --> 00:45:23,519
we didn't know. That signs are with you exactly, So

893
00:45:23,599 --> 00:45:28,039
if you're with him, where's the sign? Thirteen seven. Then

894
00:45:28,159 --> 00:45:31,039
believers say, why has a sign not been sent down

895
00:45:31,559 --> 00:45:35,280
upon him from his lord? Thou art only a warner

896
00:45:35,639 --> 00:45:38,880
and a guide to every people. Okay, beating, all you

897
00:45:39,039 --> 00:45:41,239
do is warn you will not send with gone and

898
00:45:41,719 --> 00:45:45,440
in case, I'm still gonna give it seventeen fifty nine

899
00:45:45,960 --> 00:45:47,320
and I got a lot more. But I want you

900
00:45:47,440 --> 00:45:52,800
to explain. This not prevented us, Nothing stopped us from

901
00:45:52,920 --> 00:45:57,400
sending the signs, but that the ancients cried licenon. Now, Jay,

902
00:45:57,440 --> 00:46:00,280
you see the logic heure j It's saying, look, things

903
00:46:00,320 --> 00:46:03,440
stopped it from giving miracles, but people before when he

904
00:46:03,519 --> 00:46:04,880
gave the miracles, they still deny it.

905
00:46:06,960 --> 00:46:09,480
Speaker 12: Correct, But I do have a so I have so

906
00:46:09,679 --> 00:46:12,280
I can explain it. I can explain. I'm not I

907
00:46:13,320 --> 00:46:17,400
watched uh uh well, he says psychologic now, but God logics,

908
00:46:18,079 --> 00:46:21,440
I mean his his he says Muslim shuffle. He says

909
00:46:21,480 --> 00:46:24,960
a Muslim shuffle. You know, I pay attention, but I'm

910
00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:27,719
not going to shuffle at all. So one of the miracles,

911
00:46:27,760 --> 00:46:30,920
I mean, yeah, he was a warner and this clear signs.

912
00:46:31,280 --> 00:46:33,639
But at the same time, for the Quran to come

913
00:46:33,719 --> 00:46:37,119
from somebody who was unlettered, somebody that wasn't able to

914
00:46:37,800 --> 00:46:40,079
wasn't able to read nor write, and then for it

915
00:46:40,199 --> 00:46:44,199
to have and entail all of these miracles that science

916
00:46:44,280 --> 00:46:47,239
is now really revealing, Like how would he knows about

917
00:46:47,559 --> 00:46:50,519
on Wait? Wait, wait, that's a miracle itself. That's a miracle.

918
00:46:53,000 --> 00:46:56,840
Speaker 4: Abandon the lie that your korwan foretells science. It's a

919
00:46:56,920 --> 00:46:58,280
lie from the pedal. Know that I'm going to put

920
00:46:58,280 --> 00:47:01,079
the wholes to that narrative. But actually, you're right, the

921
00:47:01,159 --> 00:47:04,480
chron is proof that's someone illiterate composed it, because you

922
00:47:04,559 --> 00:47:06,599
got to be alliterate to produce something like the chronic.

923
00:47:07,199 --> 00:47:10,119
Speaker 12: Okay, but but my question is, though, how would somebody

924
00:47:10,199 --> 00:47:13,840
that's illiterate that has it back in the days of

925
00:47:14,280 --> 00:47:17,000
the fourteen thousand years ago? How would he be able

926
00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:20,639
to years ago? Fourteen thousand over, fourteen thousand years ago?

927
00:47:21,800 --> 00:47:23,960
Speaker 4: Was there at the time of Adam and Eve?

928
00:47:25,480 --> 00:47:30,400
Speaker 12: No, fourteen hundred years ago. I apologize, I apologize, I apologize. So,

929
00:47:30,639 --> 00:47:34,480
but how would somebody that's claim to be illiterate if

930
00:47:34,519 --> 00:47:36,920
he was in present day, how would he be able

931
00:47:37,000 --> 00:47:41,119
to stay? And they have no no doctors, well doctors

932
00:47:41,159 --> 00:47:42,800
that can able to be able to see like a

933
00:47:42,880 --> 00:47:45,400
woman's stages of pregnancy. How would he be able to

934
00:47:45,440 --> 00:47:49,519
come up with that all of these, all these characters,

935
00:47:49,679 --> 00:47:50,519
how would he be able to.

936
00:47:52,000 --> 00:47:56,719
Speaker 4: I want you to logically, four stages of embryology was

937
00:47:56,840 --> 00:48:02,679
something taught by the Greeks, preserve by the Christians translated Arabic,

938
00:48:03,360 --> 00:48:07,639
the stages of what we call Gallanic or gallin. Those

939
00:48:07,719 --> 00:48:11,639
four stages were already known and was common knowledge among

940
00:48:12,119 --> 00:48:15,559
the people at the time. Your prophet, being an ignoramus,

941
00:48:15,960 --> 00:48:18,119
thought there were only four stages in the development of

942
00:48:18,159 --> 00:48:20,719
the embryo because he was picking up the science that

943
00:48:20,880 --> 00:48:23,320
was known by the Greeks and preserved by the Christians

944
00:48:23,719 --> 00:48:26,239
and discovered by the Muslims even at the time, Mohammed,

945
00:48:26,559 --> 00:48:28,679
So that's actually an argument. Your prophet doesn't know what

946
00:48:28,760 --> 00:48:31,280
he's talking about, because there's more than four stages in

947
00:48:31,400 --> 00:48:33,880
the development of the embryo. And let me get you

948
00:48:33,960 --> 00:48:35,760
the information on that one second.

949
00:48:37,320 --> 00:48:38,079
Speaker 8: Plate to the game.

950
00:48:38,239 --> 00:48:38,719
Speaker 4: You wouldn't know.

951
00:48:39,519 --> 00:48:41,519
Speaker 3: Hey, MoMA, do you have something like do you have

952
00:48:41,639 --> 00:48:42,880
YouTube open or something like that?

953
00:48:43,039 --> 00:48:45,159
Speaker 1: As you're on stream? Yer, because there's a little echo

954
00:48:45,360 --> 00:48:47,559
when when I.

955
00:48:47,639 --> 00:48:49,159
Speaker 12: Just closed it out, that.

956
00:48:52,159 --> 00:48:58,320
Speaker 4: Give me your fait screenship? Okay, can you use screenshare.

957
00:48:59,039 --> 00:49:01,840
I'm sorry, what screen gotta come up? Well, I don't

958
00:49:01,840 --> 00:49:03,119
know where I'm at now I'm lost.

959
00:49:02,920 --> 00:49:06,360
Speaker 12: All right, as you're looking for. And then so how

960
00:49:06,400 --> 00:49:08,679
about the expansion of the universe. How would they know that?

961
00:49:08,719 --> 00:49:12,039
Speaker 4: That's already about God stretching out the heavens.

962
00:49:12,719 --> 00:49:19,320
Speaker 12: Nice try though, No, I'm just I'm just already known. Okay, okay, but.

963
00:49:21,239 --> 00:49:26,239
Speaker 3: One second, mom, in one second, bro, Sam, So on

964
00:49:26,360 --> 00:49:32,719
your screen you're sharing uh extreame yard Yeah, okay.

965
00:49:32,360 --> 00:49:35,760
Speaker 4: No a screen share? Hold on, dude, shoot right here? Okay,

966
00:49:35,880 --> 00:49:36,320
how about that?

967
00:49:37,760 --> 00:49:38,079
Speaker 2: All right?

968
00:49:39,119 --> 00:49:41,480
Speaker 4: So right here, guys, here it is. I'm going to

969
00:49:41,519 --> 00:49:43,400
give you guys a link. See, these guys are gonna

970
00:49:43,480 --> 00:49:45,280
even the Muslims have abandoned this argument. I guess this,

971
00:49:45,400 --> 00:49:48,159
guys that Johnny Come Lately, even Ali drama or that,

972
00:49:48,280 --> 00:49:50,840
and I'll say, yeah, yeah, I was mistaken. Yeah, we

973
00:49:50,920 --> 00:49:53,000
know there's no new scientific facts in the Koran, but

974
00:49:53,400 --> 00:49:54,639
you're kind of late to the game. But here you

975
00:49:54,719 --> 00:49:57,960
go Greek and Jewish ideas about reproduction, the kron and

976
00:49:58,000 --> 00:50:02,440
Adi and other embological stages in the Koran. And here

977
00:50:02,519 --> 00:50:05,880
you're gonna see the four stages were already commented on

978
00:50:06,880 --> 00:50:10,360
long before Muhammad and one thirty one a d. He

979
00:50:10,440 --> 00:50:13,599
already talked about the four stages of embryo, and his

980
00:50:13,760 --> 00:50:16,199
four stages are identical to what stayed in the kron

981
00:50:16,199 --> 00:50:20,239
because the Koran is plagiarizing what was already known. You

982
00:50:20,320 --> 00:50:25,239
don't know what you're talking about, buddy, You don't know

983
00:50:25,239 --> 00:50:27,320
what you're talking about because you're late to the game.

984
00:50:28,039 --> 00:50:31,440
You're just catching on the tricks of Dalaganda's. But those

985
00:50:31,519 --> 00:50:36,679
before you already dropped that lie. Muhammed a jab Adi.

986
00:50:37,079 --> 00:50:39,519
They're all they got videos saying, yeah, we are wrong

987
00:50:39,599 --> 00:50:43,599
about scientific miracles in the Koran. We now know. No,

988
00:50:43,719 --> 00:50:47,000
it doesn't have any scientific tracks that were unknown at

989
00:50:47,000 --> 00:50:51,679
that time. Give up the game, give it up. It's

990
00:50:51,679 --> 00:50:52,920
not gonna work anymore.

991
00:50:52,760 --> 00:50:54,679
Speaker 3: All right, So you can mute now, Mohammad. But I

992
00:50:54,800 --> 00:50:56,480
just had to mute you while he speaks because there's

993
00:50:56,519 --> 00:50:58,599
still that echo. So just keep that in mind when

994
00:50:58,639 --> 00:51:01,639
he when he's speaking, just try to meet your mic, okay,

995
00:51:01,719 --> 00:51:04,599
because it's it's necho and I can't stand it.

996
00:51:05,800 --> 00:51:09,840
Speaker 12: Sorry about that, Apologize about that, But I'm not saying

997
00:51:09,840 --> 00:51:11,639
I was late later that year. I was just saying

998
00:51:11,800 --> 00:51:15,440
I was going back and back about the situation where

999
00:51:15,440 --> 00:51:19,119
you asked me the question about his miracles. But it

1000
00:51:19,199 --> 00:51:21,280
could say that as well too, like the text that

1001
00:51:21,360 --> 00:51:24,800
you're reading as well too, But I wouldn't. There's a

1002
00:51:24,880 --> 00:51:27,400
lot of other things like him splitting the moon and

1003
00:51:27,519 --> 00:51:31,119
all these other various things that that that, like Moses

1004
00:51:31,119 --> 00:51:33,679
splaining the sea, is the two seas not mixing? How

1005
00:51:33,719 --> 00:51:35,440
would he be able to how would be able to

1006
00:51:35,559 --> 00:51:39,079
know that? And then on top of that, wait, wait, brother,

1007
00:51:39,159 --> 00:51:41,480
hold on. And then on top of that, it is

1008
00:51:41,599 --> 00:51:44,280
not even all of the prophets used to gain wisdom

1009
00:51:44,360 --> 00:51:47,400
from everywhere. Even Jesus went where when he when he

1010
00:51:47,480 --> 00:51:50,840
left Nazareth? Where did he go? And he said, he

1011
00:51:50,920 --> 00:51:53,559
said there's people that's more wise.

1012
00:51:53,760 --> 00:51:56,679
Speaker 4: He went to Hawaii because you cluckification to no.

1013
00:51:56,760 --> 00:51:59,079
Speaker 12: But but then he but he said there's people over there,

1014
00:51:59,159 --> 00:52:08,440
more wives. Yeah, okay, okay. So and then even before yeah,

1015
00:52:09,400 --> 00:52:10,960
I just have a question that I've just have one.

1016
00:52:12,760 --> 00:52:14,360
Speaker 1: You've been you've been going on and on and on.

1017
00:52:14,599 --> 00:52:16,360
So now we're going to address the point that you

1018
00:52:16,440 --> 00:52:17,440
raised one about.

1019
00:52:18,840 --> 00:52:20,199
Speaker 4: Ja if you want to tell them, I don't want

1020
00:52:20,199 --> 00:52:21,360
to just keep talking to say something.

1021
00:52:25,000 --> 00:52:26,920
Speaker 5: It reminds me of a just a side point, both

1022
00:52:27,000 --> 00:52:29,400
the Sunni and the Shea will do this kind of

1023
00:52:29,519 --> 00:52:35,199
retroactive quantum cause causality, where uh like the Shia will

1024
00:52:35,280 --> 00:52:38,639
argue that, yeah, the the Koran is all coded neoplatonism,

1025
00:52:39,079 --> 00:52:41,480
but they didn't get it from ancient neoplatonists, even though

1026
00:52:41,480 --> 00:52:44,480
it's centuries after the Neoplatonists. The korn actually invented this,

1027
00:52:44,840 --> 00:52:47,760
and the Greek philosophers there were centuries earlier, stole it

1028
00:52:47,920 --> 00:52:51,400
somehow or when the when the Sunies talk about we

1029
00:52:51,480 --> 00:52:54,679
believe in atomism, but it wasn't the ancient Greek philosophers

1030
00:52:54,679 --> 00:52:57,599
and democratists that proposed atomism. It was actually the Qoran

1031
00:52:57,639 --> 00:52:59,400
that it's like all it's like a theft job.

1032
00:53:00,880 --> 00:53:03,840
Speaker 12: No, I apologize if that was the perception of how

1033
00:53:03,920 --> 00:53:05,840
it came off, but no, that was not. I'm not

1034
00:53:05,920 --> 00:53:08,039
saying that we stole it from They stole it from us,

1035
00:53:08,159 --> 00:53:10,760
or there was people that people that came, There was

1036
00:53:10,840 --> 00:53:14,639
profits that came way before, got before both both of

1037
00:53:14,679 --> 00:53:19,280
their times before apart from Mohammad and Jesus, was both

1038
00:53:19,280 --> 00:53:20,840
of them. So I'm not saying that we stole it

1039
00:53:20,920 --> 00:53:23,280
from them. I'm not sure how the knowledge was transferred,

1040
00:53:23,360 --> 00:53:25,800
but for it to be well, I know how it's

1041
00:53:25,800 --> 00:53:29,280
transferred revealed to Muhammad, but I'm just saying that. I'm

1042
00:53:29,320 --> 00:53:30,960
not saying that, oh, we stolen and we were the

1043
00:53:31,000 --> 00:53:31,719
first ones.

1044
00:53:31,559 --> 00:53:32,000
Speaker 1: Know h.

1045
00:53:32,039 --> 00:53:33,960
Speaker 5: But at this point, the point is that this shows

1046
00:53:34,000 --> 00:53:35,000
it was a ripoff.

1047
00:53:35,159 --> 00:53:35,920
Speaker 1: You don't understand.

1048
00:53:38,239 --> 00:53:40,000
Speaker 12: I don't. I can't. I can't agree to that.

1049
00:53:40,239 --> 00:53:42,679
Speaker 1: I can't agree to that. What's the reason that it's not?

1050
00:53:43,960 --> 00:53:47,400
Speaker 12: Because it like they like it says that it confirms

1051
00:53:47,599 --> 00:53:49,719
the Gospel and the tour. And I'm not saying that

1052
00:53:49,880 --> 00:53:53,159
people logically, if people already back.

1053
00:53:55,280 --> 00:53:56,199
Speaker 10: You know what, I'm just saying.

1054
00:53:57,159 --> 00:53:59,039
Speaker 12: I'm just saying that I'm not I'm just saying that

1055
00:53:59,119 --> 00:54:02,000
it's not a ripoff because if there were wise people

1056
00:54:02,119 --> 00:54:06,079
before then, prior to and then, and there was able

1057
00:54:06,159 --> 00:54:10,079
to undiscover all of these truths prior to even any

1058
00:54:10,320 --> 00:54:13,360
before Abraham before because Abraham is the father of our relation.

1059
00:54:13,440 --> 00:54:15,800
As you guys know, we all agree on if it

1060
00:54:15,920 --> 00:54:18,960
was if it was scientific, if it was things that

1061
00:54:19,039 --> 00:54:21,480
were revealed prior not even revealed, but things that they

1062
00:54:21,559 --> 00:54:24,559
discovered prior to for it to fall down, and it's

1063
00:54:24,559 --> 00:54:27,000
still in alignment with everything that was back then, with

1064
00:54:27,079 --> 00:54:29,000
the ancient Egyptian got.

1065
00:54:28,880 --> 00:54:29,599
Speaker 8: You off for a second.

1066
00:54:30,880 --> 00:54:32,719
Speaker 4: I want you to hear what you said about mute yourself.

1067
00:54:33,320 --> 00:54:36,039
Did you understand your initial argument was, how can a

1068
00:54:36,119 --> 00:54:39,840
litteric man no scientific statements that are reckless that we

1069
00:54:39,960 --> 00:54:42,199
only discovered Now you know, you change your argument.

1070
00:54:44,840 --> 00:54:49,440
Speaker 5: I'm not sure now exists prior to Mohammad. But wise

1071
00:54:49,480 --> 00:54:52,760
people can discover things in other wise places.

1072
00:54:52,559 --> 00:54:55,039
Speaker 12: Because because the reason why, the reason why I'm not

1073
00:54:55,119 --> 00:54:58,159
saying that I'm contradicting my argument is because we believe

1074
00:54:58,280 --> 00:55:03,159
that angel Gabriel, Jabriel came down and revealed God's word

1075
00:55:03,239 --> 00:55:06,159
to part Muhammad that was illiterate, so for him to

1076
00:55:06,639 --> 00:55:09,519
be able to gather all that knowledge from the past

1077
00:55:09,639 --> 00:55:13,079
that was already revealed and Andrew Gabriel has been since

1078
00:55:13,400 --> 00:55:16,280
since the beginning of time. So for him for him

1079
00:55:16,360 --> 00:55:18,880
to and and this is God's words that's being revealed

1080
00:55:18,920 --> 00:55:21,119
to Mohammad, for him to know all that and then

1081
00:55:21,199 --> 00:55:24,039
put it in its in this alignment with science. Now,

1082
00:55:24,800 --> 00:55:26,559
then that's what I'm That's what I'm saying. It's not

1083
00:55:26,639 --> 00:55:27,280
a contradiction.

1084
00:55:27,880 --> 00:55:30,679
Speaker 4: We got your point, but you said Gabriel revealed it.

1085
00:55:30,760 --> 00:55:32,119
Now I want to ask you a question let's see

1086
00:55:32,159 --> 00:55:34,960
if this is the real gab Do you believe just

1087
00:55:35,079 --> 00:55:36,480
I want you to be honest with me. Do you

1088
00:55:36,599 --> 00:55:38,079
believe women have sperm?

1089
00:55:41,320 --> 00:55:42,280
Speaker 12: Do I believe women?

1090
00:55:42,360 --> 00:55:47,360
Speaker 4: Have you believe sperm? That a child looks like the

1091
00:55:47,480 --> 00:55:49,440
mother's side of the family if she has an orgasm.

1092
00:55:49,480 --> 00:55:58,599
Speaker 12: Person, I've never that kind of threw That threw me

1093
00:55:58,679 --> 00:56:01,079
off brother, But you laughed at Muhammad.

1094
00:56:01,440 --> 00:56:03,559
Speaker 1: It threw us all off man. When we read that,

1095
00:56:03,840 --> 00:56:04,960
it threw us all off man.

1096
00:56:06,320 --> 00:56:07,440
Speaker 4: You just laughed at Muhamma.

1097
00:56:07,440 --> 00:56:09,679
Speaker 12: Why are you laughing, dude, I'm not laughing at I'm

1098
00:56:09,719 --> 00:56:11,039
just laughing at what you just said.

1099
00:56:11,599 --> 00:56:19,280
Speaker 4: Yes, Muhammed taught that the reason why a child looks

1100
00:56:20,039 --> 00:56:22,519
like the mother side of the family is because the

1101
00:56:22,960 --> 00:56:26,440
woman has an orgasm climaxes and her sperm comes out first,

1102
00:56:26,440 --> 00:56:29,559
which is yellow. But if the child looks like the

1103
00:56:29,719 --> 00:56:32,000
father side of the family is because he had an

1104
00:56:32,119 --> 00:56:35,119
orgasm and his sperm is white. And he said, Gabriel

1105
00:56:35,159 --> 00:56:38,079
revealed it to him. It's right here, I'm going to give.

1106
00:56:37,920 --> 00:56:38,079
Speaker 13: It to you.

1107
00:56:38,199 --> 00:56:41,119
Speaker 4: So before we move on, So are you saying that

1108
00:56:41,719 --> 00:56:45,880
science is wrong because science says women don't have sperm?

1109
00:56:46,480 --> 00:56:48,639
And who has an orgasm in bed has nothing to

1110
00:56:48,679 --> 00:56:50,360
do whether you look like your mommy's side or your

1111
00:56:50,440 --> 00:56:55,800
daddy's side. I'm gonna read it. I have it here,

1112
00:56:55,800 --> 00:56:57,880
but I just want to see. So is Gibriel right?

1113
00:56:58,239 --> 00:56:58,639
Speaker 15: He said, that.

1114
00:57:00,960 --> 00:57:02,840
Speaker 12: Is he right about woman having sperm.

1115
00:57:03,280 --> 00:57:05,719
Speaker 4: That not only sperm, it's yellow, and that if the

1116
00:57:05,760 --> 00:57:08,119
woman has an orgasm. So if you're making out with you,

1117
00:57:08,159 --> 00:57:10,119
I got to be g rated you're making out your wife.

1118
00:57:10,599 --> 00:57:12,880
She then organ when she gets pregnant, she goes look

1119
00:57:12,960 --> 00:57:15,719
like mommy's side. So if you're side of the family's ugly,

1120
00:57:15,800 --> 00:57:17,800
always have your wife climax.

1121
00:57:17,480 --> 00:57:21,280
Speaker 1: One, but no.

1122
00:57:22,840 --> 00:57:29,039
Speaker 4: Tell you yes, it's okay, right, and it's online, so

1123
00:57:29,079 --> 00:57:30,679
people don't think I'm making it up. I'll get you

1124
00:57:30,719 --> 00:57:34,519
to the link. But let me read annas because you said,

1125
00:57:34,559 --> 00:57:37,400
Jibril when Abdullah Bin saidam her the arrival of the

1126
00:57:37,440 --> 00:57:39,800
Prophet of Medinna, he came to him and said, I'm

1127
00:57:39,840 --> 00:57:42,519
going to ask you about three things which nobody knows

1128
00:57:42,559 --> 00:57:44,199
except for now mom, and I want to see you're listening.

1129
00:57:44,320 --> 00:57:47,119
He said, no one knows this except the prophet. What

1130
00:57:47,320 --> 00:57:49,719
is the first port of the hour? What will be

1131
00:57:49,800 --> 00:57:52,119
the first meal taken by the people of Paradise. Now watch,

1132
00:57:52,719 --> 00:57:56,800
why does the child resemble its father? Why does it

1133
00:57:56,880 --> 00:58:00,440
resemble its maternal comedian? Why does he look like his mother? Brothers,

1134
00:58:00,760 --> 00:58:02,679
beternal uncle, I want you to listen, so I don't

1135
00:58:02,679 --> 00:58:03,800
want you to say, well, doesn't say that?

1136
00:58:04,440 --> 00:58:04,559
Speaker 2: Now?

1137
00:58:04,639 --> 00:58:08,480
Speaker 4: Who gave him the answer? Jay and logic? Jibril, He

1138
00:58:08,559 --> 00:58:13,519
said out, Gabriel has just now told me of their answers.

1139
00:58:13,760 --> 00:58:17,000
Abdullah said, he from amongst all the angels is the

1140
00:58:17,119 --> 00:58:20,119
enemy of the Jews. Okay, so now you're supposedly the

1141
00:58:20,199 --> 00:58:27,320
Jews h this religion anyway, Apostle said, the first portal

1142
00:58:28,320 --> 00:58:30,840
of the hour will be a fire that will bring

1143
00:58:30,920 --> 00:58:33,360
together people from these two west. Well, that we can't verify,

1144
00:58:33,400 --> 00:58:35,920
because that's the end. The first meal of the people

1145
00:58:35,960 --> 00:58:39,159
of the Paradise will be extra low the fish liver. Well,

1146
00:58:39,239 --> 00:58:41,840
that we can't verify because we're not in Paradise. But

1147
00:58:42,000 --> 00:58:47,159
here allah, brother, as for there is numblance of the

1148
00:58:47,239 --> 00:58:50,760
child to its parents. If a man has sexual intercourse

1149
00:58:50,800 --> 00:58:55,239
with his wife and gets discharge first, the child will

1150
00:58:55,280 --> 00:58:59,480
resemble the father. If the woman gets the charge first,

1151
00:59:00,480 --> 00:59:02,079
the child will remember her.

1152
00:59:02,880 --> 00:59:03,119
Speaker 2: On that.

1153
00:59:03,400 --> 00:59:05,840
Speaker 4: Abdelaphan Saddam said, I testify you with them, apostle lot.

1154
00:59:05,920 --> 00:59:07,320
Now before you answer, I want you to catch it,

1155
00:59:08,119 --> 00:59:11,199
and I have more right here narration, but I want

1156
00:59:11,239 --> 00:59:14,360
you to catch what he said. Here he said, if

1157
00:59:14,480 --> 00:59:19,159
the man goes first, Jah gonna look like Daddy and

1158
00:59:19,280 --> 00:59:25,000
Daddy's brother. If the woman discharges first, baby gonna look

1159
00:59:25,079 --> 00:59:29,280
like Mama and Mama's brother. Right here now, Saddam said,

1160
00:59:29,639 --> 00:59:32,199
these answers show you a prophet. So my first question,

1161
00:59:32,599 --> 00:59:36,480
please answer it honestly. He said, no one knows the

1162
00:59:36,519 --> 00:59:40,000
answers except a prophet. Well, Abdelaphan Saddam wasn't a prophet.

1163
00:59:40,039 --> 00:59:46,119
How do you know the answers? He just said, pay attention.

1164
00:59:47,079 --> 00:59:50,039
Only a prophet knows these answers. But Abdelaphan Saddam is

1165
00:59:50,079 --> 00:59:52,079
not a prophet. How do you know all these answers?

1166
00:59:52,320 --> 00:59:53,039
And Mama is right?

1167
00:59:56,679 --> 00:59:59,039
Speaker 12: But is this saying that it came out of Muhamma's mouth.

1168
01:00:00,159 --> 01:00:03,679
Speaker 4: It says he came out of Gabriel. Gabriel has just

1169
01:00:03,800 --> 01:00:05,800
now told me their answer. So it came worse. It

1170
01:00:05,880 --> 01:00:06,880
came out of Gabriel's mouth.

1171
01:00:08,920 --> 01:00:12,760
Speaker 12: What but this is not a This is not a sura.

1172
01:00:13,079 --> 01:00:13,880
Speaker 2: And is this.

1173
01:00:16,119 --> 01:00:17,679
Speaker 4: Because if you're going Krono. Then I'm gonna make you

1174
01:00:17,760 --> 01:00:19,320
more problem that if we go to chapter eighty six.

1175
01:00:19,440 --> 01:00:20,480
Are you Koran only?

1176
01:00:21,559 --> 01:00:23,199
Speaker 12: No, I'm not, I'm just I was just asking.

1177
01:00:23,719 --> 01:00:30,480
Speaker 4: This is Sahi el Buhari, Sahi el Buchari. Okay, So

1178
01:00:30,840 --> 01:00:35,400
again the answer the first question, if only a prophet

1179
01:00:36,199 --> 01:00:39,519
knows the answers. Look, let me read it again. Abdullah

1180
01:00:40,000 --> 01:00:42,639
ben Saddam heard that the arrival of the prophet of Medina.

1181
01:00:42,719 --> 01:00:44,480
He came to him and said, I'm gonna ask you

1182
01:00:44,559 --> 01:00:46,920
about three things which nobody knows except the prophet. No

1183
01:00:47,000 --> 01:00:50,760
one knows except the prophet. Well, Abdullah ben Saddam is

1184
01:00:50,840 --> 01:00:58,119
not a prophet. How did he know the answers? M

1185
01:01:00,119 --> 01:01:01,599
how do you know the answers? Can you answer that?

1186
01:01:01,719 --> 01:01:02,760
Can come to the second point.

1187
01:01:05,960 --> 01:01:09,800
Speaker 12: Sorry, I don't even first that first thing was breaking

1188
01:01:09,880 --> 01:01:11,400
up on my end. I think it's my WiFi. But

1189
01:01:12,119 --> 01:01:15,159
you said, I'm going to actually just highlight how did highlighted? Please,

1190
01:01:15,679 --> 01:01:17,480
I'm going to I'm going to ask you about three

1191
01:01:17,519 --> 01:01:19,840
things which nobody knows except for a prophet. So you're

1192
01:01:19,880 --> 01:01:20,880
asking me, how does he know.

1193
01:01:21,719 --> 01:01:23,639
Speaker 4: Because there's Abdullah bin Salama prophet.

1194
01:01:24,679 --> 01:01:26,000
Speaker 1: No, how do you know that?

1195
01:01:26,119 --> 01:01:28,360
Speaker 4: Mohammed is right. If only a prophet knows the answers,

1196
01:01:29,719 --> 01:01:30,199
he must.

1197
01:01:30,079 --> 01:01:34,039
Speaker 1: Have asked him logically, how does he know that Mohammad's right?

1198
01:01:34,119 --> 01:01:36,519
When Mohammad gives the answer, How does he know Mohamma's right?

1199
01:01:37,320 --> 01:01:37,480
Speaker 2: Oh?

1200
01:01:37,599 --> 01:01:42,079
Speaker 1: From uh through a revelation. So he's getting revelation that

1201
01:01:42,159 --> 01:01:44,880
Mohammed's right. I haven't.

1202
01:01:45,159 --> 01:01:50,639
Speaker 14: I don't know where this is going or I'm materials

1203
01:01:50,840 --> 01:01:51,159
come back.

1204
01:01:51,239 --> 01:01:53,519
Speaker 4: But here's the second question. Is that what you didn't

1205
01:01:53,519 --> 01:01:56,119
get it? Do you agree with Gabriel? Gabriel and you

1206
01:01:56,159 --> 01:01:58,079
look at this guy talking about the son that I'm

1207
01:01:58,079 --> 01:01:59,679
going to have you read the Senate in Arabic on

1208
01:01:59,800 --> 01:02:03,000
so dot com. The guy in your conversation Gabriel said

1209
01:02:03,480 --> 01:02:05,880
the answers. So who gave Gabriel the answers?

1210
01:02:08,639 --> 01:02:08,960
Speaker 1: Illave?

1211
01:02:10,039 --> 01:02:15,159
Speaker 4: So Allah says, if your wife climaxes, your child's gonna

1212
01:02:15,199 --> 01:02:18,440
look like mommy and her brother. But Alla said, if

1213
01:02:18,480 --> 01:02:20,920
you climax is gonna look like you. So does Allah

1214
01:02:20,960 --> 01:02:22,239
know genetics?

1215
01:02:22,280 --> 01:02:24,639
Speaker 5: Because that's not he knows what he's playing, domb.

1216
01:02:24,679 --> 01:02:25,639
Speaker 1: He knows what this says.

1217
01:02:25,960 --> 01:02:27,519
Speaker 12: No, I don't. I have never seen this, so.

1218
01:02:29,159 --> 01:02:30,119
Speaker 1: You know what it's saying.

1219
01:02:30,239 --> 01:02:33,199
Speaker 12: But I'm saying that, yeah, all knowing. Of course he's

1220
01:02:33,239 --> 01:02:37,000
all knowing. But if that's the case, how is the

1221
01:02:37,119 --> 01:02:41,599
how is this incorrect? How is this incorrect? How is

1222
01:02:41,639 --> 01:02:44,960
it incorrect? And where is the too? How is this incorrect?

1223
01:02:45,320 --> 01:02:48,519
Speaker 4: When you get to the blackstone, make sure you kiss

1224
01:02:48,559 --> 01:02:50,679
the blackstone and touch it because it will interceed for

1225
01:02:50,719 --> 01:02:52,639
you on the day of judgment. Buddy, this is too

1226
01:02:52,679 --> 01:02:54,920
much for you. It's you're not getting it. It's okay, Hey,

1227
01:02:55,039 --> 01:02:57,199
Jesus guide you. Who's next?

1228
01:02:58,639 --> 01:02:59,480
Speaker 12: I do have a question.

1229
01:03:00,440 --> 01:03:02,760
Speaker 4: Yes, yeah, you're gonna get where it was going.

1230
01:03:02,800 --> 01:03:07,519
Speaker 1: And he was playing with a Pokemon on a panel

1231
01:03:07,559 --> 01:03:07,960
and what's that?

1232
01:03:08,119 --> 01:03:08,199
Speaker 4: Bro?

1233
01:03:08,400 --> 01:03:12,039
Speaker 1: It's been a minute, yo, you hear me? Yeah, okay,

1234
01:03:12,119 --> 01:03:15,440
you can hear us. Yeah, yeah, I have a question.

1235
01:03:15,760 --> 01:03:22,239
It's not a very long Okay, it's on the thirty three.

1236
01:03:22,280 --> 01:03:24,920
Speaker 4: I think I can't even hear what is he saying?

1237
01:03:27,800 --> 01:03:29,039
Speaker 1: Three he's gonna ask about.

1238
01:03:30,320 --> 01:03:36,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, it comes from Snai, Yeah, Sierra, and.

1239
01:03:37,039 --> 01:03:42,679
Speaker 16: Part because yeah, because I watched your video assumption and

1240
01:03:43,079 --> 01:03:47,599
you say that it speaks about the Lord, Okay, yes

1241
01:03:47,719 --> 01:03:51,719
it does. Okay, But then I've watched a Muslim video

1242
01:03:52,000 --> 01:03:56,039
which says that's like in Exodus seven seventeen.

1243
01:03:56,639 --> 01:03:58,559
Speaker 1: Yeah, it says that the Lord will you.

1244
01:03:58,599 --> 01:03:59,880
Speaker 2: Know, we.

1245
01:04:02,840 --> 01:04:04,119
Speaker 1: The blood in the in the water.

1246
01:04:04,519 --> 01:04:05,400
Speaker 2: You know, what care?

1247
01:04:05,760 --> 01:04:06,400
Speaker 4: What is he saying?

1248
01:04:08,159 --> 01:04:14,000
Speaker 11: Like in Exogus seven seventeen, what about it? Yeah, it

1249
01:04:14,119 --> 01:04:18,639
says that's the Lord like he will hit the water.

1250
01:04:18,800 --> 01:04:21,239
Speaker 4: You know, he will do what He.

1251
01:04:21,239 --> 01:04:23,360
Speaker 1: Will hit the water, He will strike the water, he

1252
01:04:23,360 --> 01:04:25,159
will turn the blood. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1253
01:04:25,199 --> 01:04:26,800
Speaker 4: What do I got to do with God being there?

1254
01:04:27,559 --> 01:04:30,559
As you read excess seventeen, But did you read the

1255
01:04:30,599 --> 01:04:34,800
same Exodus seventeen or in Exodus thirteen, twenty one and

1256
01:04:34,920 --> 01:04:38,360
twenty two. In Exodus fourteen nineteen twenty six, is the

1257
01:04:38,400 --> 01:04:40,320
Lord was there in the pillar of cloud guiding them?

1258
01:04:42,440 --> 01:04:43,519
He was actually there?

1259
01:04:46,199 --> 01:04:50,760
Speaker 1: It's not my point. Can I tell you my point? Yeah?

1260
01:04:50,840 --> 01:04:52,480
Speaker 4: You're I know at your point. Let me let me

1261
01:04:52,519 --> 01:04:54,760
tell me if I got right? Yeah, it just the Lord.

1262
01:04:54,960 --> 01:04:56,920
Let me see if I got the Lord is there.

1263
01:04:57,119 --> 01:04:59,880
It doesn't mean him. It can be Moses acting for

1264
01:05:00,079 --> 01:05:00,400
the Lord.

1265
01:05:00,559 --> 01:05:00,679
Speaker 2: Right.

1266
01:05:01,519 --> 01:05:04,079
Speaker 12: Yeah, in this seven you didn't answer it.

1267
01:05:04,159 --> 01:05:06,880
Speaker 4: Here my question? Okay, here my answer. Let me try

1268
01:05:06,880 --> 01:05:10,920
it again the same Exodus you're quoting. In Exodus thirteen

1269
01:05:11,119 --> 01:05:14,840
twenty one, twenty two Exodus fourteen, nineteen twenty six. It

1270
01:05:14,960 --> 01:05:18,280
says the Lord is there in the pillar of cloud

1271
01:05:18,840 --> 01:05:20,960
talking to Moses, and Moses would going to the pillar

1272
01:05:21,000 --> 01:05:24,559
of cloud. So he's actually there, not simply working through

1273
01:05:24,559 --> 01:05:24,960
an agent.

1274
01:05:27,519 --> 01:05:31,000
Speaker 1: Okay. And is there the same thing in Paran and the.

1275
01:05:31,719 --> 01:05:34,119
Speaker 4: Yes, because if no, I'm in a screen share again,

1276
01:05:34,119 --> 01:05:35,480
it's like I gotta do a lot of screen sharing.

1277
01:05:36,000 --> 01:05:37,239
You got it up? Can you bring it up?

1278
01:05:37,679 --> 01:05:37,880
Speaker 1: Yeah?

1279
01:05:38,960 --> 01:05:39,320
Speaker 2: You got it?

1280
01:05:39,960 --> 01:05:40,159
Speaker 1: Yep.

1281
01:05:40,480 --> 01:05:43,159
Speaker 4: All right, here we go, Here we go. Was God

1282
01:05:43,559 --> 01:05:48,159
there with them and put on and tonight yep? Numbers ten, eleven, thirteen. Okay,

1283
01:05:48,239 --> 01:05:51,679
watch her on the twentieth day of the second month

1284
01:05:51,760 --> 01:05:55,159
of the second year. The cloud. There's the cloud right there,

1285
01:05:55,480 --> 01:05:58,559
right here. Lift it up from above the tamin of

1286
01:05:58,559 --> 01:06:02,280
the testimony. Then these lights set out from the desert

1287
01:06:02,360 --> 01:06:07,039
of SINAI traveled from place to place until the cloud

1288
01:06:08,039 --> 01:06:10,440
came to rest in the desert Paran. So I want

1289
01:06:10,480 --> 01:06:14,159
you to tell everyone Allah took Moses to Mecca while

1290
01:06:14,199 --> 01:06:16,559
they're in the desert, so they went to the Kaba

1291
01:06:17,199 --> 01:06:17,920
for a little while.

1292
01:06:21,519 --> 01:06:21,719
Speaker 1: Yay.

1293
01:06:23,039 --> 01:06:24,880
Speaker 4: So no, I want to want to because we want

1294
01:06:24,920 --> 01:06:27,280
to believe his mom And I want you to say

1295
01:06:27,280 --> 01:06:30,239
to everyone in numbers ten when all because he leaves

1296
01:06:30,239 --> 01:06:32,719
a lot in the cloud, he let Sinai, he went

1297
01:06:32,800 --> 01:06:35,320
to Mecca, and he brought Moses with them to Mecca.

1298
01:06:35,760 --> 01:06:37,559
So they went to Mecca and they stayed there for

1299
01:06:37,559 --> 01:06:41,800
a while, because it says the cloud went from Sinai

1300
01:06:42,480 --> 01:06:43,800
and went to the desert a paran.

1301
01:06:45,880 --> 01:06:49,079
Speaker 1: So what you believe now, you're you're Right's right?

1302
01:06:49,719 --> 01:06:51,559
Speaker 4: Thank you, that's it. It means.

1303
01:06:52,400 --> 01:06:56,079
Speaker 1: So why why why did you write in the end

1304
01:06:56,480 --> 01:07:02,719
that he was written in the previous pictures? Like why

1305
01:07:02,800 --> 01:07:06,079
did he did he write right that he was in

1306
01:07:06,159 --> 01:07:07,639
the previous scriptures?

1307
01:07:07,719 --> 01:07:10,800
Speaker 4: Moment, wait, I swear I can't hear your.

1308
01:07:10,719 --> 01:07:13,760
Speaker 3: My com he's saying, he's saying, why did he write

1309
01:07:13,880 --> 01:07:16,599
in the in the Qoran that Muhammad is in the

1310
01:07:16,639 --> 01:07:17,559
previous scriptures.

1311
01:07:18,199 --> 01:07:21,880
Speaker 4: That's our question to you. That's why we're saying Mohammed

1312
01:07:21,960 --> 01:07:23,440
is a false prophet because he didn't know what he

1313
01:07:23,519 --> 01:07:23,840
was saying.

1314
01:07:24,039 --> 01:07:28,320
Speaker 16: That's exactly our argument, because that's too big too, you know,

1315
01:07:29,599 --> 01:07:32,119
it's not too big, it's well, it's a big claim.

1316
01:07:32,880 --> 01:07:33,000
Speaker 17: Uh.

1317
01:07:33,679 --> 01:07:36,719
Speaker 3: And And the fact that within this big claim, there's

1318
01:07:36,800 --> 01:07:40,880
not a single reference to Muhammad being in the previous scriptures.

1319
01:07:41,280 --> 01:07:43,880
Speaker 1: It shows that he's a false prophet. He wasn't telling

1320
01:07:43,960 --> 01:07:49,880
the truth. That's that's the whole that's that's one of

1321
01:07:49,960 --> 01:07:51,880
our biggest arguments against this law.

1322
01:07:55,119 --> 01:08:03,519
Speaker 15: Okay, so repeat after me, I shall do? Can you

1323
01:08:03,800 --> 01:08:05,599
can you say the whole sentence?

1324
01:08:05,639 --> 01:08:12,039
Speaker 1: And then I, okay, I should do? Uh huh, I

1325
01:08:12,119 --> 01:08:21,000
shall do? I shall do illaha illallah? Yes, sure Alma,

1326
01:08:23,359 --> 01:08:26,960
I know what it means. Yes, sure.

1327
01:08:33,399 --> 01:08:36,079
Speaker 4: I can't say that, Yes.

1328
01:08:35,920 --> 01:08:39,039
Speaker 1: Sure Alma se wa kalima?

1329
01:08:39,279 --> 01:08:41,119
Speaker 10: Who I know?

1330
01:08:41,199 --> 01:08:43,119
Speaker 4: What is? Wow?

1331
01:08:44,880 --> 01:08:45,239
Speaker 2: Uh huh?

1332
01:08:47,239 --> 01:08:49,039
Speaker 4: Okay, By the way, do you know do you know

1333
01:08:49,039 --> 01:08:51,600
how a bic pokemon is that his name?

1334
01:08:51,720 --> 01:08:51,760
Speaker 13: No?

1335
01:08:52,399 --> 01:08:54,159
Speaker 1: I can a little bit speak of the jon.

1336
01:08:54,319 --> 01:08:57,600
Speaker 4: But you know why he's starting to take that shahada.

1337
01:08:57,680 --> 01:08:58,279
He wasn't lie.

1338
01:08:58,520 --> 01:08:58,920
Speaker 2: You know why?

1339
01:08:59,760 --> 01:09:02,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, I know it's a Jesus is the world.

1340
01:09:03,760 --> 01:09:05,560
Speaker 4: But why is he telling you to say that shahada?

1341
01:09:05,720 --> 01:09:06,000
You know what?

1342
01:09:07,640 --> 01:09:09,880
Speaker 1: Because in the anything that Jesus is the spirit.

1343
01:09:10,000 --> 01:09:14,880
Speaker 4: Now it's what you know, not only that in the Sahihari,

1344
01:09:14,960 --> 01:09:18,600
I'm gonna get it for you, Mohammad tells you that

1345
01:09:18,960 --> 01:09:23,800
the shahada isn't simply there is no God but a

1346
01:09:23,960 --> 01:09:27,479
lah and Mohammad is his messenger. Actually, no, let me

1347
01:09:27,520 --> 01:09:29,560
show you what the real shot is. If you can screenshare,

1348
01:09:30,680 --> 01:09:33,119
You're right, I'm gonna large it. Here's the real shadow.

1349
01:09:33,119 --> 01:09:35,880
Then the Muslims don't tell you. This is again because

1350
01:09:35,880 --> 01:09:37,880
if you ask the Muslims where do you get the

1351
01:09:37,960 --> 01:09:40,960
shadow from? You get it from the Ahdi Sahi.

1352
01:09:41,039 --> 01:09:43,840
Speaker 1: Hey, the shot is not in the Kuran. That's not there.

1353
01:09:44,079 --> 01:09:46,399
Speaker 4: You don't say you know that. But anyway, here watch her.

1354
01:09:47,000 --> 01:09:50,119
This is I should be red side collection of Albuhari.

1355
01:09:51,039 --> 01:09:56,000
All right, Bari, this is Sahi. Watch look what it says.

1356
01:09:56,199 --> 01:10:00,079
It says it is related from Junada. I'm sorry he

1357
01:10:00,159 --> 01:10:04,279
went to It is rated from Obada that the prophet said,

1358
01:10:04,479 --> 01:10:08,479
whoever testifies that there is no God but all alone

1359
01:10:08,960 --> 01:10:12,239
with no partner, and the moment is a slave and messenger.

1360
01:10:12,840 --> 01:10:16,520
That Asa is the slave of a lah and his messenger,

1361
01:10:16,640 --> 01:10:18,680
and a word which he casts into Miniam and his

1362
01:10:18,720 --> 01:10:21,960
spirit from him, and that the garden is real and

1363
01:10:22,039 --> 01:10:24,840
the fire is real, will enter the garden, whatsoever his actions.

1364
01:10:25,239 --> 01:10:28,119
This actually confirms over saying Earliel that Islam is a

1365
01:10:28,199 --> 01:10:32,279
Christian sect. Because the real shada you have to bear witness.

1366
01:10:33,119 --> 01:10:35,640
Asa is the son of Midian. The word of a

1367
01:10:35,760 --> 01:10:37,840
law cast the man and spread from him. And then

1368
01:10:37,880 --> 01:10:42,039
again here Sahi Muslim. Here it is the real Shahada

1369
01:10:42,119 --> 01:10:46,600
that the Muslims don't mention, the real chadda that the

1370
01:10:46,680 --> 01:10:49,760
Muslims don't mention because again they wanted to see people.

1371
01:10:49,800 --> 01:10:51,840
But it's okay, you're not a deceiver. That's why you're

1372
01:10:51,840 --> 01:10:54,159
going to leave a slam sooner or later in Jee's name.

1373
01:10:54,199 --> 01:10:58,960
But here it is narrowing on the authority of beIN summit,

1374
01:10:59,439 --> 01:11:03,199
that the message the law observed, he who said there

1375
01:11:03,319 --> 01:11:06,199
is no God but a law, he has one. There's

1376
01:11:06,239 --> 01:11:09,279
no associate with him. That Mamata is a servant, and

1377
01:11:09,359 --> 01:11:12,520
as message that crisis servant, the son of a slavery

1378
01:11:12,600 --> 01:11:16,079
slave girl, and his word which he commuted to marrying

1379
01:11:16,079 --> 01:11:18,680
a spirit, that paradise is a fact, that hell is

1380
01:11:18,720 --> 01:11:22,439
a fact. Allah will make him. He affirms these truths

1381
01:11:22,600 --> 01:11:25,920
enter paradise through any one. If it's eight doors, which

1382
01:11:25,960 --> 01:11:28,439
we would like. She was actually giving you the real shahada.

1383
01:11:31,479 --> 01:11:31,920
Speaker 1: Mhm.

1384
01:11:34,880 --> 01:11:37,359
Speaker 4: So I'll come to Muslims real shahada.

1385
01:11:41,239 --> 01:11:44,560
Speaker 1: In the shadow that we make in there in the sidlance.

1386
01:11:45,399 --> 01:11:51,159
Speaker 5: It's If you enjoy this video, be sure and take

1387
01:11:51,359 --> 01:11:54,680
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1388
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absolutely necessary in combating the toxic culture that we live in.

1401
01:12:36,359 --> 01:12:38,119
I also would say, if you want to get access

1402
01:12:38,159 --> 01:12:40,000
to my books, head on over to the shop at

1403
01:12:40,039 --> 01:12:41,840
my website and get signed copies there.

1404
01:12:42,279 --> 01:12:42,560
Speaker 1: Thank you.

1405
01:12:43,840 --> 01:12:48,600
Speaker 4: So here here Mohammed said, this is Sahi Muslim sa Klaudi,

1406
01:12:48,720 --> 01:12:52,479
the Sahihan and Mohammed site. You have to say this.

1407
01:12:53,079 --> 01:12:56,640
You can't just say lah el ila la and then

1408
01:12:56,760 --> 01:12:59,720
Mohammed is this messenger you have to finish it. And

1409
01:13:01,920 --> 01:13:06,399
right is Abdullah who his servant, the son of a

1410
01:13:06,479 --> 01:13:09,479
slave girl, his word which he committed to Mary in

1411
01:13:09,520 --> 01:13:12,439
a spirit. How come they don't tell you what the

1412
01:13:12,479 --> 01:13:13,079
real shot is?

1413
01:13:15,640 --> 01:13:15,800
Speaker 2: Oh?

1414
01:13:16,520 --> 01:13:19,640
Speaker 1: I have never seen that, to beest you know.

1415
01:13:19,840 --> 01:13:21,840
Speaker 4: That's why we have to go and do the homework

1416
01:13:21,880 --> 01:13:27,439
for you guys, and show you what they're hiding from you. Okay,

1417
01:13:28,920 --> 01:13:29,840
what they're hiding from you.

1418
01:13:32,239 --> 01:13:33,640
Speaker 1: I have a last question.

1419
01:13:35,680 --> 01:13:38,760
Speaker 3: The last the last time we spoke, we I think

1420
01:13:38,800 --> 01:13:42,399
we concluded that the New Testament was the jail, right,

1421
01:13:45,399 --> 01:13:46,199
and then now you're.

1422
01:13:46,079 --> 01:13:49,600
Speaker 1: Seeing all of this. No, that that's what's just I

1423
01:13:49,760 --> 01:13:58,920
just talked about the engine. Mm hmmm. I have no

1424
01:13:59,079 --> 01:14:03,800
other arguments, you know, for the insine you're right? So

1425
01:14:05,119 --> 01:14:07,119
so then what what what is it that? Man? What's

1426
01:14:07,600 --> 01:14:10,560
what's keeping you away from the truth about Jesus? And

1427
01:14:10,640 --> 01:14:11,680
why do you keep following?

1428
01:14:13,000 --> 01:14:19,279
Speaker 11: To be honest, I I'm not doing anything about Islam,

1429
01:14:19,680 --> 01:14:26,800
no good Like I'm just searching. But I every day,

1430
01:14:27,079 --> 01:14:33,239
like I listen to the Bible and I'm just keep searching.

1431
01:14:33,319 --> 01:14:33,439
Speaker 2: You know.

1432
01:14:35,359 --> 01:14:37,640
Speaker 1: I saw one dedo about this on meal like a

1433
01:14:37,720 --> 01:14:40,960
few days ago. So I came to this life stream

1434
01:14:41,039 --> 01:14:44,800
to ask the question. But I have no pretension to anything.

1435
01:14:45,439 --> 01:14:47,680
Speaker 4: Good man, you seem sincere. We're proud of you, man,

1436
01:14:47,720 --> 01:14:50,119
because the brother, if you're reading the Bible, the more

1437
01:14:50,119 --> 01:14:51,720
you hear about Jesus words, the more you're gonna fall

1438
01:14:51,760 --> 01:14:52,760
in love with God.

1439
01:14:52,920 --> 01:14:56,640
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, No, you're nothing better to say. To be honest,

1440
01:14:58,319 --> 01:15:01,199
did you you said you have one final, one final question?

1441
01:15:02,359 --> 01:15:02,560
Speaker 4: Yeah?

1442
01:15:02,680 --> 01:15:05,840
Speaker 11: That's how can we be sure? Because the hat this,

1443
01:15:06,000 --> 01:15:08,159
you know, it's too spatial, it's too too strange.

1444
01:15:08,680 --> 01:15:11,159
Speaker 4: What is How can we want?

1445
01:15:12,359 --> 01:15:17,640
Speaker 1: How can we be sure? That's? How can we exclude

1446
01:15:17,720 --> 01:15:19,520
the only view?

1447
01:15:20,520 --> 01:15:23,600
Speaker 4: Oh? That's easy, man, I'm feeling bad. We gotta get

1448
01:15:23,720 --> 01:15:25,560
Jay to start talking. Man, I feel bad.

1449
01:15:25,640 --> 01:15:25,760
Speaker 1: Jay.

1450
01:15:25,760 --> 01:15:27,319
Speaker 4: I don't want to keep talking. But let me answer that.

1451
01:15:27,479 --> 01:15:29,159
Speaker 1: I got a topic for j next. I'm good.

1452
01:15:30,680 --> 01:15:33,760
Speaker 4: Hey, let me let me let me answer you, my

1453
01:15:33,840 --> 01:15:36,840
brother inmanity. If you don't go to that eth, this

1454
01:15:37,000 --> 01:15:39,600
is why you can't be Koran Only if I ask

1455
01:15:39,720 --> 01:15:44,399
you when was the Koran sent down? Can you show

1456
01:15:44,439 --> 01:15:49,119
me the answer from the Koran? No, when it says

1457
01:15:49,199 --> 01:15:51,880
Mohammad four times? Oh, the name Mohammed only appears four times?

1458
01:15:52,880 --> 01:15:54,760
Can you tell me this Mohammad when you lived from

1459
01:15:54,760 --> 01:16:00,600
the Koran? No, but that's that's important, in the very important,

1460
01:16:00,600 --> 01:16:02,800
because then you're telling me Koran only, because if you

1461
01:16:02,840 --> 01:16:04,520
go kron only, you can't tell me when the Koran

1462
01:16:04,640 --> 01:16:06,359
was written, to whom was written and where?

1463
01:16:06,560 --> 01:16:07,079
Speaker 2: What do you mean?

1464
01:16:09,920 --> 01:16:12,560
Speaker 11: Yeah, because if someone is need he would say that's

1465
01:16:12,640 --> 01:16:15,079
it's uneven tote you know nothing more.

1466
01:16:15,600 --> 01:16:19,079
Speaker 4: But how do you know how many chapters make up

1467
01:16:19,119 --> 01:16:21,239
the Koran? And how many verses make up each chapter?

1468
01:16:21,840 --> 01:16:23,520
Where does the Koran tell you that? How do you

1469
01:16:23,640 --> 01:16:26,600
even know what the Koran is? Because someone gave you

1470
01:16:26,640 --> 01:16:29,119
a Koran? Okay, well, hold on, where did it come from? No?

1471
01:16:31,000 --> 01:16:32,960
Speaker 1: The Quran says it's a book from.

1472
01:16:33,960 --> 01:16:35,840
Speaker 4: Can you show me the Koran where it tells you?

1473
01:16:35,920 --> 01:16:39,359
And this book has one hundred fourteen chapters? How do

1474
01:16:39,399 --> 01:16:44,279
you know what book? Are you getting it? Now?

1475
01:16:45,760 --> 01:16:45,960
Speaker 1: Yeah?

1476
01:16:46,119 --> 01:16:49,119
Speaker 4: I can see, because the point is you forgive me

1477
01:16:49,159 --> 01:16:51,359
a Koran. It has one hundred fourteen chapters, all right,

1478
01:16:51,920 --> 01:16:54,319
each chapter has number of verses. Then I ask you, okay,

1479
01:16:55,039 --> 01:16:58,760
where in the Quran does it tell me this book

1480
01:16:59,039 --> 01:17:02,439
has this number of chapters and this number of verses.

1481
01:17:02,439 --> 01:17:04,520
How do you know how many chapters make up the

1482
01:17:04,560 --> 01:17:05,479
chron how many verses.

1483
01:17:06,319 --> 01:17:08,960
Speaker 1: It's because it says that it has never changed. So

1484
01:17:09,119 --> 01:17:13,439
if we trust it, what hasn't changed? So if we

1485
01:17:13,600 --> 01:17:15,960
trust it, we know that there are.

1486
01:17:16,479 --> 01:17:18,680
Speaker 4: Question what is the Koran that hasn't been changed? How

1487
01:17:18,680 --> 01:17:19,560
do you know that's the Kron?

1488
01:17:20,840 --> 01:17:23,840
Speaker 1: We can You cannot know for sure? You know exactly?

1489
01:17:23,920 --> 01:17:26,000
Speaker 4: So you can't be chrown only you gotta go to

1490
01:17:26,079 --> 01:17:26,680
that dis.

1491
01:17:28,479 --> 01:17:28,840
Speaker 12: Mmm.

1492
01:17:29,920 --> 01:17:32,319
Speaker 4: That's my point. And then there are things in the Kron.

1493
01:17:32,439 --> 01:17:33,840
I want you an answer from the chronolon. Let me

1494
01:17:33,880 --> 01:17:40,319
give you one chapter one eleven one Ye, yeah, curse

1495
01:17:41,359 --> 01:17:43,039
curson is and his wife right there cursed own?

1496
01:17:43,079 --> 01:17:47,760
Speaker 1: Who's it's? Because it's important, it was important at this moment.

1497
01:17:48,640 --> 01:17:49,359
Speaker 4: Yeah, but who's he?

1498
01:17:50,920 --> 01:17:53,159
Speaker 1: If we all put on we don't know you?

1499
01:17:53,319 --> 01:17:53,960
Speaker 2: Ah see?

1500
01:17:54,239 --> 01:17:57,800
Speaker 4: How about you? Thirty seven? When I mentioned saying who

1501
01:17:58,039 --> 01:17:58,520
the heck is?

1502
01:17:58,560 --> 01:18:06,680
Speaker 1: Say it? Yeah, we cannot know. Only is that important

1503
01:18:06,720 --> 01:18:07,880
for the for the theology?

1504
01:18:08,079 --> 01:18:08,239
Speaker 2: You know?

1505
01:18:08,600 --> 01:18:11,720
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's very important because just because the book tells

1506
01:18:11,760 --> 01:18:13,520
me it came down from God? How do I know

1507
01:18:14,920 --> 01:18:17,239
it came down? When to whom? And what's the evidence?

1508
01:18:17,680 --> 01:18:19,159
If you just follow the chron you can't tell me

1509
01:18:19,199 --> 01:18:22,239
when it came down did it come down the Musa?

1510
01:18:23,199 --> 01:18:26,000
Did it come down at the time of Jeremiah. You

1511
01:18:26,159 --> 01:18:27,279
can't tell me from the Koran.

1512
01:18:29,920 --> 01:18:34,199
Speaker 1: M But there's also another layer.

1513
01:18:34,359 --> 01:18:38,079
Speaker 3: Another problem with that is that the Koran says that

1514
01:18:38,199 --> 01:18:42,800
it's detailed and explained about everything. So if the Koran

1515
01:18:42,920 --> 01:18:45,680
is detailed and explained about everything, then you shouldn't have

1516
01:18:45,800 --> 01:18:46,039
to go.

1517
01:18:46,079 --> 01:18:46,960
Speaker 1: Outside the Koran.

1518
01:18:47,960 --> 01:18:50,600
Speaker 5: It also relies on the Bible for a lot of

1519
01:18:50,640 --> 01:18:52,760
the stories and a lot of the you know, identifying

1520
01:18:52,760 --> 01:18:54,279
a lot of the people, and you know, we have

1521
01:18:54,439 --> 01:18:57,640
references to this or that prophet, and with nothing else

1522
01:18:57,720 --> 01:19:00,640
is said about then there's you know a lot of

1523
01:19:00,680 --> 01:19:05,720
ambiguities that require biblical revelations. So it can't be Corona only.

1524
01:19:06,239 --> 01:19:10,359
Speaker 1: Mm hmm. Okay. And what's your position about Islam? Was

1525
01:19:10,439 --> 01:19:13,600
it like a Christian thing? Or Muhammad did exists? Or

1526
01:19:13,640 --> 01:19:14,159
what do you think?

1527
01:19:16,119 --> 01:19:16,760
Speaker 4: Who are you asking?

1528
01:19:19,319 --> 01:19:21,119
Speaker 1: I'm who is almost to.

1529
01:19:22,680 --> 01:19:22,960
Speaker 4: Answer?

1530
01:19:23,000 --> 01:19:23,319
Speaker 1: Go ahead?

1531
01:19:24,960 --> 01:19:25,000
Speaker 2: What?

1532
01:19:25,880 --> 01:19:29,319
Speaker 4: I'm sorrying everyone's answer? Go ahead? So when I answer that, yeah,

1533
01:19:29,359 --> 01:19:33,439
you can, yes, Well, I I don't know what to

1534
01:19:33,479 --> 01:19:36,840
make up Mohmad because the traditions about Mohammad they're too

1535
01:19:36,960 --> 01:19:41,239
late and obviously I don't completely trust them. So I

1536
01:19:41,319 --> 01:19:42,960
don't doubt there was a Mohammed, but I don't know

1537
01:19:43,680 --> 01:19:45,319
what that Mohammad looked like. I can't tell you.

1538
01:19:45,720 --> 01:19:48,920
Speaker 1: I don't know what about you, Jay, what's your position?

1539
01:19:50,279 --> 01:19:52,600
Speaker 5: I mean, it could be a one guy or it

1540
01:19:52,640 --> 01:19:55,079
could be a collection of war lords. I mean, I

1541
01:19:55,239 --> 01:19:59,159
tend to think that Islam is a a bunch of

1542
01:19:59,199 --> 01:20:03,319
different myths and stories from the Talmud, from Christian studipigrapha,

1543
01:20:03,479 --> 01:20:07,800
from the New Testament, world traditions, arianism, all mixed together

1544
01:20:07,960 --> 01:20:13,399
into a religion that's malleable for any warlord or khlief

1545
01:20:13,520 --> 01:20:15,760
at any time to make it whatever they wanted to be.

1546
01:20:16,680 --> 01:20:20,159
Speaker 4: Yep, exactly. So I don't know, we don't.

1547
01:20:21,159 --> 01:20:23,600
Speaker 1: It's like a patchwork. Like a lot of things.

1548
01:20:24,680 --> 01:20:27,079
Speaker 4: Touchwork, most definitely the evidence, so you can see there's

1549
01:20:27,119 --> 01:20:28,479
a patchwork. It was badly edited.

1550
01:20:29,199 --> 01:20:32,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay.

1551
01:20:33,079 --> 01:20:35,640
Speaker 3: I like to argue that Muhammad was originally a Christian

1552
01:20:35,680 --> 01:20:37,359
but then Uthman corrupted his story.

1553
01:20:42,760 --> 01:20:44,800
Speaker 1: But it speaks of the Nazarene.

1554
01:20:44,840 --> 01:20:48,439
Speaker 4: You know, that's another mystery. Who were the Nazarenes. And

1555
01:20:48,920 --> 01:20:51,000
even when you say Nazarenes, you have to then tell

1556
01:20:51,039 --> 01:20:52,680
me the time from the kron because when it says

1557
01:20:52,760 --> 01:20:58,239
the Masada. Okay, what Nosara? Where? And how do you

1558
01:20:58,359 --> 01:21:02,159
know when this comment was quote unquote sent down? What

1559
01:21:02,319 --> 01:21:02,760
year is this?

1560
01:21:04,039 --> 01:21:06,640
Speaker 1: You just go back from what I know. I know

1561
01:21:06,760 --> 01:21:11,720
that the nether means are the like the posterity of

1562
01:21:12,279 --> 01:21:15,840
the Church of James. That correct, or we can.

1563
01:21:15,800 --> 01:21:16,199
Speaker 2: Get into that.

1564
01:21:16,279 --> 01:21:18,039
Speaker 4: But before I do it, I'm saying, when the kron

1565
01:21:18,119 --> 01:21:22,479
mentions Thesara, what is the timeframe of that reference? When

1566
01:21:23,720 --> 01:21:25,760
I mean, because you're assuming in the seventh century, how

1567
01:21:25,800 --> 01:21:26,159
do you know that?

1568
01:21:27,319 --> 01:21:30,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, we have to take the Yeah, of course we

1569
01:21:30,640 --> 01:21:31,199
got problems.

1570
01:21:31,479 --> 01:21:33,439
Speaker 4: We got problems. And even when you tell you that

1571
01:21:33,600 --> 01:21:36,239
they're the group of James, if you've done your study

1572
01:21:36,279 --> 01:21:39,760
in church history, there are various Jewish groups.

1573
01:21:39,520 --> 01:21:43,000
Speaker 1: And they are I've just read it to you.

1574
01:21:43,640 --> 01:21:45,439
Speaker 4: Yeah, they didn't all agree. I know a lot of

1575
01:21:45,560 --> 01:21:47,239
Muslims like to deal to thebu Nites, but they got

1576
01:21:47,279 --> 01:21:49,560
a problem with the Emi Knights. Because number one, if

1577
01:21:49,600 --> 01:21:52,000
you go with the Church Fathers, we are told that

1578
01:21:52,079 --> 01:21:55,279
there were even Knites that thought Jesus wasn't born of

1579
01:21:55,399 --> 01:21:58,359
the Margeon. Joseph sied Jesus. So if they're right, the

1580
01:21:58,439 --> 01:22:03,560
chron is wrong. So if those Ebiennites were right that

1581
01:22:03,720 --> 01:22:06,800
said Jesus was the physical seed of Joseph because he

1582
01:22:06,880 --> 01:22:09,439
got very pregnant. Koran is wrong. He is born of

1583
01:22:09,479 --> 01:22:11,159
a virgin, So are they right? Then you got to

1584
01:22:11,159 --> 01:22:12,319
stop being Muslim.

1585
01:22:12,720 --> 01:22:17,399
Speaker 1: Of course. But you know the Nazarenes before the ebu Knites, you.

1586
01:22:17,399 --> 01:22:18,000
Speaker 2: Know the.

1587
01:22:20,760 --> 01:22:24,520
Speaker 4: Christians. They mentioned a group of Nazarenes that actually did

1588
01:22:24,640 --> 01:22:31,880
accept trinity, but they kept the laws of Moses. So

1589
01:22:32,800 --> 01:22:35,640
I would say there are certain Jews. They worship God,

1590
01:22:35,840 --> 01:22:39,760
same God, Trinity, Father, Sunday Spirit. But their problem was

1591
01:22:39,840 --> 01:22:42,600
they followed the Jewish law. Okay, but if they're right,

1592
01:22:42,680 --> 01:22:44,760
the Churan is false again, so are they right?

1593
01:22:46,880 --> 01:22:47,359
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah.

1594
01:22:49,239 --> 01:22:51,279
Speaker 4: And then a group of Abianites are said to have

1595
01:22:51,319 --> 01:22:56,640
been vegetarians. They they believe that Jesus absolved them from

1596
01:22:56,640 --> 01:23:00,680
eating meat. So if they're right, is a wrong again?

1597
01:23:02,680 --> 01:23:04,800
Speaker 1: Mm hmm. Yeah.

1598
01:23:04,880 --> 01:23:07,319
Speaker 4: So no matter what group you go to, Islam still loses.

1599
01:23:07,359 --> 01:23:11,640
Speaker 1: My friend, it's pretty bad. Mm hmm.

1600
01:23:12,800 --> 01:23:14,560
Speaker 4: These days are rough. Man, keep reading the bobble. You're

1601
01:23:14,600 --> 01:23:15,680
gonna come and worship Jesus?

1602
01:23:17,439 --> 01:23:19,279
Speaker 1: Yep? Maybe amen?

1603
01:23:19,520 --> 01:23:19,800
Speaker 4: You will?

1604
01:23:21,159 --> 01:23:23,880
Speaker 3: All right, Thanks for coming, Pokemon. You know you're always welcome. Man,

1605
01:23:23,920 --> 01:23:26,119
Don't let it be too long that you're that you're gone, man,

1606
01:23:26,199 --> 01:23:27,000
keep coming through.

1607
01:23:27,119 --> 01:23:31,000
Speaker 1: Keep asking questions. Thank you will all right, take care.

1608
01:23:34,079 --> 01:23:36,640
Speaker 3: All right, let's get to a couple of super chats,

1609
01:23:36,960 --> 01:23:40,199
and g says, my opinion is Muhammad was a white colonist.

1610
01:23:40,720 --> 01:23:41,000
Speaker 15: Damn.

1611
01:23:41,560 --> 01:23:43,319
Speaker 4: By the way, there are I say he was white?

1612
01:23:43,359 --> 01:23:46,359
Speaker 1: So she's say he was white and a black slave owner.

1613
01:23:47,640 --> 01:23:50,640
Damn gino. That's the here.

1614
01:23:51,359 --> 01:23:55,680
Speaker 3: Uh is Sam now a prophet. He's predicting their arguments

1615
01:23:55,720 --> 01:23:56,760
before they even speak.

1616
01:23:59,479 --> 01:24:02,680
Speaker 4: I shall do, I shall do, Sam shamuon sol Lah.

1617
01:24:04,880 --> 01:24:08,199
Speaker 3: We got Lovely who's always supporting the ministry, says Amen,

1618
01:24:08,920 --> 01:24:10,920
thank you Lord, God, bless your sisters.

1619
01:24:10,920 --> 01:24:13,279
Speaker 1: Thank you so much, or brother, thank you so much

1620
01:24:13,359 --> 01:24:17,399
for your contribution. Appreciate it. We got David Rodriguez who says,

1621
01:24:17,479 --> 01:24:21,520
Jesus is king. That's right, is sh o bar, that's

1622
01:24:21,560 --> 01:24:25,479
what we do. And let me see one more here,

1623
01:24:28,079 --> 01:24:31,600
Oh this is good. Follow up. Jesus says, Mary is

1624
01:24:31,920 --> 01:24:35,239
the all power for God of Islam. She doesn't need

1625
01:24:35,319 --> 01:24:38,279
a mate to have a son. And here it is.

1626
01:24:39,319 --> 01:24:43,720
Absolutely it's such a fun argument to you.

1627
01:24:44,159 --> 01:24:45,960
Speaker 3: All right, For the next Muslim, I would like for

1628
01:24:46,039 --> 01:24:48,880
you guys to engage with us and tell us why

1629
01:24:49,039 --> 01:24:49,520
how heed?

1630
01:24:49,640 --> 01:24:51,640
Speaker 1: The concept of how heed is better than the trinity?

1631
01:24:52,199 --> 01:24:52,279
Speaker 12: Uh?

1632
01:24:52,479 --> 01:24:55,399
Speaker 1: Is taw heed simple? Does it make sense? Is it coherent?

1633
01:24:56,039 --> 01:24:58,479
Speaker 3: Come up and tell us how if you holde to

1634
01:24:58,560 --> 01:25:00,720
tell he? Well, you're a Muslim, so you better all right?

1635
01:25:00,800 --> 01:25:02,159
So we got off mid on the stage.

1636
01:25:02,159 --> 01:25:04,319
Speaker 1: How are you doing ill?

1637
01:25:05,000 --> 01:25:06,319
Speaker 2: Roight? Oh?

1638
01:25:09,560 --> 01:25:10,960
Speaker 1: Why is your name?

1639
01:25:11,000 --> 01:25:11,159
Speaker 4: Really?

1640
01:25:12,039 --> 01:25:12,239
Speaker 1: Yeah?

1641
01:25:12,279 --> 01:25:12,479
Speaker 2: Yeah?

1642
01:25:12,479 --> 01:25:13,119
Speaker 1: My name Jackman?

1643
01:25:13,840 --> 01:25:16,439
Speaker 18: Where you from? All from the landown?

1644
01:25:16,479 --> 01:25:20,000
Speaker 4: And okay, Cat, I'm the bobby.

1645
01:25:21,359 --> 01:25:24,239
Speaker 1: You might nice? So do you do you hope to

1646
01:25:24,279 --> 01:25:32,359
tell him? Okay, take it from there, jac So, Uh,

1647
01:25:32,600 --> 01:25:33,560
I got a question for you.

1648
01:25:33,680 --> 01:25:36,239
Speaker 5: If tal heat is true, are the attributes of all

1649
01:25:36,319 --> 01:25:40,680
law dependent amongst one another? Or are they independent in

1650
01:25:40,720 --> 01:25:42,560
their Are they asset in their existence?

1651
01:25:44,000 --> 01:25:47,359
Speaker 18: I mean attribute is from gold, isn't it?

1652
01:25:49,600 --> 01:25:52,640
Speaker 1: That's not in question? Are they independent amongst themselves or

1653
01:25:52,680 --> 01:25:54,159
do they have a dependence relationship?

1654
01:25:55,760 --> 01:26:00,199
Speaker 18: I mean gold has attributes the descript two.

1655
01:26:01,319 --> 01:26:03,520
Speaker 5: Okay, that's your argument just to stay the position.

1656
01:26:04,800 --> 01:26:07,039
Speaker 1: Well, I mean that it's I mean it's not it's

1657
01:26:07,079 --> 01:26:11,000
not this that so, I mean this is a historic

1658
01:26:11,079 --> 01:26:11,880
debate in Islam.

1659
01:26:11,960 --> 01:26:14,319
Speaker 5: Are are the attributes a say, do they have an

1660
01:26:14,359 --> 01:26:17,560
independent existence? Or are they dependent upon one another and

1661
01:26:17,760 --> 01:26:24,239
upon Allah's essence. I mean, that doesn't make sense, and

1662
01:26:24,359 --> 01:26:26,680
so the debates in your own tradition don't make sense.

1663
01:26:26,720 --> 01:26:27,119
Speaker 1: I agree.

1664
01:26:27,880 --> 01:26:30,359
Speaker 18: No, no, no, I mean, for example, saying, you know,

1665
01:26:30,439 --> 01:26:33,600
the attributes have a mind of their own, and if

1666
01:26:33,640 --> 01:26:34,640
the at the.

1667
01:26:34,640 --> 01:26:36,800
Speaker 1: Mind of their own, do they have the dependence relationship

1668
01:26:36,880 --> 01:26:37,560
upon one another?

1669
01:26:38,920 --> 01:26:44,479
Speaker 18: So his attributes is he is he doing what he encompasses?

1670
01:26:45,000 --> 01:26:46,720
Speaker 1: Well, he's doing is one of the attributes.

1671
01:26:46,800 --> 01:26:48,359
Speaker 5: But no, they're not all the doing.

1672
01:26:50,680 --> 01:26:51,960
Speaker 18: So okay, give me an example.

1673
01:26:53,359 --> 01:26:59,920
Speaker 1: So is there a relationship between Allah's say, his mercy,

1674
01:27:00,640 --> 01:27:05,159
his justice, his knowledge, and his essence? What's that relationship?

1675
01:27:06,840 --> 01:27:10,439
Speaker 18: That's that's his own, that's his pell, that's God's pell.

1676
01:27:11,399 --> 01:27:13,920
Speaker 5: Are those things distinct or are they all descriptions of

1677
01:27:14,000 --> 01:27:14,520
the same thing.

1678
01:27:15,880 --> 01:27:19,439
Speaker 18: They're all encompassing of the one God's capability?

1679
01:27:20,399 --> 01:27:22,560
Speaker 5: Are they really many or are they not really many?

1680
01:27:24,439 --> 01:27:26,680
Speaker 18: These many's God is transcendent.

1681
01:27:27,359 --> 01:27:32,560
Speaker 1: Believe ninety nine independent gods or one God? So those

1682
01:27:32,600 --> 01:27:37,079
are attributes. What's the relationship between the attributes and the essence?

1683
01:27:37,119 --> 01:27:37,840
That's what I'm asking.

1684
01:27:38,960 --> 01:27:41,960
Speaker 18: So as in for example, he's the most merciful, so

1685
01:27:42,079 --> 01:27:43,600
he's he's Moossy.

1686
01:27:44,680 --> 01:27:46,800
Speaker 5: Yeah, so you're just stating what the attributes are. I'm

1687
01:27:46,840 --> 01:27:50,079
asking what the relationship is because you said you believe

1688
01:27:50,119 --> 01:27:53,560
in taalheed, which is to unify, which is oneness. And

1689
01:27:53,680 --> 01:27:56,479
I'm asking you what's the relationship of these many things

1690
01:27:56,520 --> 01:27:58,640
that you're talking about to the oneness? Are they really

1691
01:27:58,720 --> 01:27:59,239
many or not?

1692
01:27:59,359 --> 01:27:59,560
Speaker 2: Really?

1693
01:28:02,560 --> 01:28:05,560
Speaker 18: There's many. We can say, here's many attributes because he's

1694
01:28:05,560 --> 01:28:10,159
a transcendent being. To be honest, or can't even comprehend

1695
01:28:10,359 --> 01:28:11,680
you know what God is capable of?

1696
01:28:12,000 --> 01:28:15,640
Speaker 5: Okay, so the Trinity is incomprehensible and God is three

1697
01:28:16,439 --> 01:28:17,199
three persons.

1698
01:28:17,520 --> 01:28:18,159
Speaker 1: What's wrong with that?

1699
01:28:19,760 --> 01:28:22,039
Speaker 18: I mean, we're putting somebody before God.

1700
01:28:24,880 --> 01:28:25,960
Speaker 1: How does that follow?

1701
01:28:26,960 --> 01:28:32,560
Speaker 18: I mean, so we have Jesus as God and we're

1702
01:28:32,560 --> 01:28:37,159
putting Jesus as the person the deity of God instead

1703
01:28:37,159 --> 01:28:37,800
of God himself.

1704
01:28:40,159 --> 01:28:42,560
Speaker 5: Jesus is God himself, So how would that be? I mean,

1705
01:28:42,560 --> 01:28:44,359
you would disagree, might disagree with that, but it's not

1706
01:28:44,439 --> 01:28:47,640
putting him before God. He's the son of God, the Father.

1707
01:28:47,840 --> 01:28:50,319
So why does that put him before God?

1708
01:28:51,840 --> 01:28:55,920
Speaker 18: Because we're putting something in between the worship of God.

1709
01:28:56,800 --> 01:29:01,800
Not if God is three persons, so I mean, is

1710
01:29:01,880 --> 01:29:03,479
good one in natural three in nature?

1711
01:29:03,840 --> 01:29:04,960
Speaker 1: Is he ninety nine or one?

1712
01:29:06,560 --> 01:29:10,680
Speaker 18: H he's one, he's one.

1713
01:29:11,680 --> 01:29:13,119
Speaker 1: Well, you said he was really ninety nine.

1714
01:29:13,119 --> 01:29:16,920
Speaker 18: A minute ago, I said, these are attributes, These are attributes,

1715
01:29:17,159 --> 01:29:18,239
these a sos.

1716
01:29:18,520 --> 01:29:21,279
Speaker 1: So she had the same problem. It's just you're not

1717
01:29:21,399 --> 01:29:23,239
calling them persons, you're calling them attributes.

1718
01:29:24,760 --> 01:29:29,079
Speaker 18: It's attributes because we don't believe he can manifest or

1719
01:29:29,600 --> 01:29:31,640
as income his own creation.

1720
01:29:33,960 --> 01:29:37,079
Speaker 5: Well, he doesn't become creation. He takes on human nature.

1721
01:29:37,119 --> 01:29:40,640
He retains and argue his divinity and his eternality is

1722
01:29:40,720 --> 01:29:44,119
uncreated status. But he can also add to himself a

1723
01:29:44,239 --> 01:29:47,439
created human nature to deify and restore it. But if

1724
01:29:47,479 --> 01:29:49,800
you can't, if a law can't do that, then how

1725
01:29:49,840 --> 01:29:51,439
do you have any knowledge of a law? If he

1726
01:29:51,520 --> 01:29:53,039
can't interact with the creative world.

1727
01:29:55,119 --> 01:29:59,720
Speaker 18: He can interact with the creative world, but he cannot

1728
01:29:59,800 --> 01:30:05,159
be when he speaks, you know, nature.

1729
01:30:05,279 --> 01:30:08,319
Speaker 5: Okay, when he speaks to Gabriel. Is there any similarity

1730
01:30:08,399 --> 01:30:13,000
between Allah's eternal speech and the created speech of the Quran?

1731
01:30:14,640 --> 01:30:14,760
Speaker 11: Uh?

1732
01:30:16,760 --> 01:30:16,800
Speaker 4: No?

1733
01:30:17,560 --> 01:30:19,960
Speaker 5: Oh, so then it doesn't tell you anything about the

1734
01:30:20,079 --> 01:30:21,199
eternal speech of Allah.

1735
01:30:22,680 --> 01:30:25,800
Speaker 1: No it does. But he just said there's no similarity.

1736
01:30:28,520 --> 01:30:32,239
Speaker 18: It's not it's not uncreated as in as in it's

1737
01:30:32,279 --> 01:30:33,800
already it's been the I mean.

1738
01:30:35,119 --> 01:30:39,239
Speaker 5: So is the Koran uncreated or created or both? It's

1739
01:30:39,399 --> 01:30:42,479
it's the word of God, So it's uncreated.

1740
01:30:44,000 --> 01:30:47,720
Speaker 18: God's word is I mean I can't feed them, I

1741
01:30:47,760 --> 01:30:49,359
mean you and me can't feed them have gold.

1742
01:30:49,600 --> 01:30:52,239
Speaker 5: So then I I can't fathom the mystery the incarnation.

1743
01:30:52,319 --> 01:30:55,600
Speaker 1: There you go, So you admit our position. Well, I

1744
01:30:55,720 --> 01:30:59,960
mean the Jews thing pro to a man. Are you

1745
01:31:00,079 --> 01:31:02,119
sure about that? You read the Old Testament? You ever

1746
01:31:02,119 --> 01:31:03,319
read the Old Testament? Okay?

1747
01:31:03,359 --> 01:31:05,279
Speaker 5: How many times does the Angel of the Lord appear

1748
01:31:05,279 --> 01:31:06,000
as I they oftening?

1749
01:31:07,279 --> 01:31:10,479
Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, we're talking about what was it? Abraham?

1750
01:31:10,600 --> 01:31:12,079
And what I mean?

1751
01:31:12,119 --> 01:31:14,920
Speaker 5: I'm looking at Exodus fourteen fifteen right now, and the

1752
01:31:15,239 --> 01:31:19,600
Trinity is manifesting Exodus fourteen and fifteen from the previous discussion.

1753
01:31:20,439 --> 01:31:23,439
So it's not just Genesis sixteen seventeen eighteen. What you know,

1754
01:31:23,520 --> 01:31:26,439
it's all throughout Genesis, all throughout Exodus. I've done actually

1755
01:31:26,479 --> 01:31:29,720
a three hour lecture just on Theophanes in the Torah.

1756
01:31:29,920 --> 01:31:34,039
Sam's done a similar talk. So who more than you

1757
01:31:34,119 --> 01:31:36,319
has interacting with the worshiping in those instances.

1758
01:31:35,920 --> 01:31:40,079
Speaker 1: It's not the Father. So they worshiping three goods.

1759
01:31:41,920 --> 01:31:44,159
Speaker 5: So the Old Testament teaches a trinity, which now you're

1760
01:31:44,239 --> 01:31:47,079
now you're admitting, And so does the Quran tell us

1761
01:31:47,159 --> 01:31:49,359
to look to the teaching of Moses and the prophet

1762
01:31:49,359 --> 01:31:49,880
the Torah or not?

1763
01:31:50,920 --> 01:31:54,000
Speaker 18: No, I mean your interpretation of mes red boys say

1764
01:31:54,079 --> 01:31:54,680
ilse was.

1765
01:31:55,720 --> 01:31:58,439
Speaker 5: Well, rabbis don't accept the Quran, so so what who

1766
01:31:58,520 --> 01:31:59,680
cares what rabbis say?

1767
01:32:00,640 --> 01:32:05,000
Speaker 1: No, I mean, you know, because the Torah is their

1768
01:32:05,039 --> 01:32:08,600
book of this croup. Well that just begs the question.

1769
01:32:08,720 --> 01:32:11,319
Speaker 5: It's is the Torah their bup or is it? Because

1770
01:32:11,319 --> 01:32:12,159
the Quran says.

1771
01:32:12,000 --> 01:32:15,399
Speaker 1: I could go to the torah is, but the revelation

1772
01:32:15,600 --> 01:32:16,079
came to them.

1773
01:32:17,199 --> 01:32:20,159
Speaker 5: Well, you're assuming that today's rabbinic Jews are identical to

1774
01:32:20,239 --> 01:32:23,119
the Hebrew Testament prophets, which I would contest because you

1775
01:32:23,239 --> 01:32:25,479
don't believe what the rabbis say about the Quran.

1776
01:32:25,279 --> 01:32:27,840
Speaker 2: Do you. I mean, so.

1777
01:32:30,000 --> 01:32:32,319
Speaker 1: It depends it depends what they say.

1778
01:32:32,439 --> 01:32:35,000
Speaker 5: You think, Well, the rabbis don't accept the Kuran, so

1779
01:32:35,439 --> 01:32:36,800
you don't believe what they say about the Koran.

1780
01:32:38,439 --> 01:32:40,279
Speaker 1: It depends what they say. They must say something.

1781
01:32:40,479 --> 01:32:42,920
Speaker 5: They accept the Kuran's revelation from Hasham.

1782
01:32:44,159 --> 01:32:45,039
Speaker 1: Yeah, yes, some do.

1783
01:32:45,199 --> 01:32:49,079
Speaker 5: Yes, Okay, Well, I can find rabbis that believe that

1784
01:32:49,159 --> 01:32:50,000
Jesus the Messiah.

1785
01:32:50,039 --> 01:32:51,039
Speaker 1: So how does that work?

1786
01:32:51,199 --> 01:32:51,319
Speaker 4: Was that?

1787
01:32:51,399 --> 01:32:51,439
Speaker 8: What?

1788
01:32:51,600 --> 01:32:54,000
Speaker 5: How's that relevant to the point of what is the

1789
01:32:54,039 --> 01:32:56,239
Old Testament itself to do? So is a it's a

1790
01:32:56,319 --> 01:32:59,159
fallacy to say that, Well, these later groups don't accept that,

1791
01:33:00,399 --> 01:33:02,800
So what does the Old Testament reveal it?

1792
01:33:03,680 --> 01:33:05,199
Speaker 4: Go Ah, I don't mean to cut you out. You

1793
01:33:05,239 --> 01:33:07,319
want to challenge them on not assertion, and I won't interrupt,

1794
01:33:07,479 --> 01:33:10,680
But buddy, would you say the rabbis accept the churn

1795
01:33:10,720 --> 01:33:13,840
as a revelation. That means those rabbis would accept Jesus

1796
01:33:13,920 --> 01:33:17,960
Messiah born of a virgin. Yet those rabbis saying Jesus

1797
01:33:18,079 --> 01:33:19,920
is not the Messiah one of the virgins. So are

1798
01:33:20,000 --> 01:33:22,279
you lying to Jay or you're trying to deceive yourself?

1799
01:33:22,359 --> 01:33:23,439
Go ahead, Jay, want.

1800
01:33:23,319 --> 01:33:27,600
Speaker 18: To make sure because you know some some Jenis believe

1801
01:33:27,640 --> 01:33:32,760
that the Quran was revealed to you know, the Jentles,

1802
01:33:32,800 --> 01:33:35,640
you know, the the sons of Ishmael.

1803
01:33:38,039 --> 01:33:39,640
Speaker 5: Well, I mean again, you could find somebody who's a

1804
01:33:39,680 --> 01:33:42,840
Jew who believes in everything from Satanism to Luciferianism to

1805
01:33:43,159 --> 01:33:47,560
Messianic Christianity, Judaism. I mean, this is really irrelevant to

1806
01:33:47,680 --> 01:33:50,720
whether the Old Testament teaches in the Torah that there's

1807
01:33:50,800 --> 01:33:54,239
three persons and that there's theophanies that are prayed to

1808
01:33:54,319 --> 01:33:57,079
and worshiped and called Yahweh. So that's a deflection, has

1809
01:33:57,119 --> 01:33:59,000
nothing to do with whether the Old Testament actually says

1810
01:33:59,039 --> 01:34:01,880
this doesn't matter what later rabbinic people believe.

1811
01:34:04,479 --> 01:34:08,319
Speaker 18: Okay, So I mean, how do we come to this

1812
01:34:08,479 --> 01:34:12,880
conclusion that it mentions the three good persons.

1813
01:34:13,800 --> 01:34:18,079
Speaker 5: Because there's dozens of references to Jahweh, his Angel, spirit

1814
01:34:18,199 --> 01:34:21,239
and or seeing his Angel, Messenger, Messenger of the Covenant

1815
01:34:22,039 --> 01:34:23,960
and the Spirit. So you either have to say all

1816
01:34:24,000 --> 01:34:26,840
those texts are corrupted, at which point the Koran is false,

1817
01:34:27,479 --> 01:34:29,239
or you have to admit that the Old Testament Jews

1818
01:34:29,279 --> 01:34:32,199
were not worshiping a unitarian duty.

1819
01:34:32,640 --> 01:34:33,479
Speaker 1: Boom boom, So.

1820
01:34:35,239 --> 01:34:37,560
Speaker 18: Was Jesus, the Spirital was Jesus the Angel.

1821
01:34:38,640 --> 01:34:41,520
Speaker 5: Jesus identifies himself as the Angel of the Lord in

1822
01:34:41,640 --> 01:34:43,800
John five, six, seven, eight nine when he debates with

1823
01:34:43,800 --> 01:34:44,840
the Pharisees.

1824
01:34:44,399 --> 01:34:45,039
Speaker 1: Over this topic.

1825
01:34:47,079 --> 01:34:49,840
Speaker 5: Okay, what does it say, No one has seen the

1826
01:34:49,880 --> 01:34:52,840
Father at any time? But he tells in that chapter

1827
01:34:52,920 --> 01:34:55,079
in John five that he was the one speaking face

1828
01:34:55,119 --> 01:34:56,079
to face with Moses.

1829
01:34:58,720 --> 01:35:01,760
Speaker 4: That's another question. Hold on, uh, what's his name because

1830
01:35:01,800 --> 01:35:02,479
I don't see his name?

1831
01:35:03,600 --> 01:35:03,880
Speaker 1: My name?

1832
01:35:04,720 --> 01:35:08,279
Speaker 4: Okay, before you ask him a question, and I'm gonna

1833
01:35:08,319 --> 01:35:11,239
show you. You understand your Koran, Jesus is the.

1834
01:35:12,439 --> 01:35:17,720
Speaker 1: Right and the from Yes, from God.

1835
01:35:17,800 --> 01:35:21,079
Speaker 4: Yes, okay, So when you ask him of Jesus, angel

1836
01:35:21,119 --> 01:35:24,279
is the spirit, an angel by nature of spirit, so

1837
01:35:24,640 --> 01:35:32,680
Jesus being the angel would be spirit by believe isla, you.

1838
01:35:32,840 --> 01:35:36,720
Speaker 18: Believe it is, so he was supported with the spirit

1839
01:35:36,760 --> 01:35:37,079
of Moo.

1840
01:35:37,560 --> 01:35:42,800
Speaker 4: The Qoran calls him r men who seventy one, which

1841
01:35:42,920 --> 01:35:46,079
is why Enda had the slam tradition. He's called a law.

1842
01:35:48,439 --> 01:35:50,000
Let me show it to you and then sorry, j

1843
01:35:50,159 --> 01:35:54,079
just want him to college that he believes Jesus is

1844
01:35:54,119 --> 01:35:54,640
the spirit of God.

1845
01:35:54,680 --> 01:35:55,079
Speaker 2: Can you shore?

1846
01:35:55,760 --> 01:35:58,439
Speaker 4: Let me just show him? Oh sorry, let me spreenshare

1847
01:35:58,479 --> 01:36:02,640
brother Alam because I yeah, there you go, and then

1848
01:36:02,680 --> 01:36:04,479
you can take from judge. You want to make sure

1849
01:36:05,119 --> 01:36:08,720
that he doesn't go too fast because it's your dean.

1850
01:36:10,159 --> 01:36:17,560
Based on four one seventy one, Asa mu Anhu and

1851
01:36:17,720 --> 01:36:22,039
then according to the hadis one of the honorific names

1852
01:36:22,079 --> 01:36:25,640
of asa is ruh ha la ruh hala spirit of

1853
01:36:25,720 --> 01:36:32,199
God a special time Muhammad to Jesus. Concise Section Islamic Terms,

1854
01:36:32,239 --> 01:36:36,760
page fifty seven. And in the stories about Jesus, his

1855
01:36:37,000 --> 01:36:40,840
followers call him yah uh a Lah. Here, oh spirit

1856
01:36:40,920 --> 01:36:42,800
of a Lah. You believe he's the spirit of God.

1857
01:36:43,000 --> 01:36:44,960
Go ahead, I just want to make sure that's.

1858
01:36:47,920 --> 01:36:48,079
Speaker 2: Right.

1859
01:36:51,840 --> 01:36:53,159
Speaker 1: Go ahead, And did you have a comment on that?

1860
01:36:54,520 --> 01:36:58,079
Speaker 18: Yeah, I mean, I'll go to so it's said one

1861
01:36:58,199 --> 01:37:02,640
seventy one. It talks about you know, the messenger of

1862
01:37:03,000 --> 01:37:05,560
but a messenger of a Lah and his word which

1863
01:37:05,720 --> 01:37:08,680
he directed to marry and a soul created at a

1864
01:37:08,720 --> 01:37:09,560
command from him.

1865
01:37:09,720 --> 01:37:11,720
Speaker 4: He doesn't say soul. You're lying to me or you

1866
01:37:11,760 --> 01:37:18,359
don't know Arabic men who. It doesn't mean verb create

1867
01:37:18,880 --> 01:37:22,119
and r is not the same as nefts. The word

1868
01:37:22,199 --> 01:37:27,760
for soul is enoughs This is men who from him,

1869
01:37:27,760 --> 01:37:30,319
and don't say ruhen created? Where's the verb for create?

1870
01:37:30,399 --> 01:37:34,680
Speaker 1: Where's the verb? Because you have to you have to

1871
01:37:34,760 --> 01:37:37,079
understand that there's multiple meanings to the.

1872
01:37:37,079 --> 01:37:40,079
Speaker 4: Word about the angel that we're going to talk about

1873
01:37:40,079 --> 01:37:41,920
the training, because that is are going to change. You

1874
01:37:41,920 --> 01:37:43,039
want to talk about che.

1875
01:37:44,479 --> 01:37:47,000
Speaker 5: No, I mean, go ahead, continue I mean if he's

1876
01:37:47,000 --> 01:37:48,920
wrong about this topic and needs to wrong.

1877
01:37:49,920 --> 01:37:52,760
Speaker 1: I mean you know, I mean you know R has

1878
01:37:52,840 --> 01:37:53,560
a double meat.

1879
01:37:53,560 --> 01:37:55,479
Speaker 18: Look, there's a double meaning to you can say spirit

1880
01:37:56,319 --> 01:37:57,079
picking things up.

1881
01:37:57,880 --> 01:37:59,760
Speaker 1: No, it means the mean soul spirit.

1882
01:38:00,199 --> 01:38:02,800
Speaker 4: If you will, you're making things up. Nowhere in the

1883
01:38:02,920 --> 01:38:07,479
tran will you find the word used for humans. Humans

1884
01:38:07,520 --> 01:38:11,159
are called soul nefs. The word rue is only used

1885
01:38:11,920 --> 01:38:15,239
for Asa and the rule of God. It's never used

1886
01:38:15,239 --> 01:38:17,880
for humans. When humans are spoken of, it's the word

1887
01:38:18,119 --> 01:38:22,159
nef's soul. So you're making things up? Stop making things up?

1888
01:38:22,199 --> 01:38:25,800
In fact, the exact same expression listen so I can

1889
01:38:25,880 --> 01:38:29,319
show you ruhin Minhu. That same phrase is used in

1890
01:38:29,439 --> 01:38:31,840
chapter fifty eight twenty two of the kron where it's

1891
01:38:31,880 --> 01:38:36,680
also alls strengthens the believers. Ruhin Minhu a spirit from him.

1892
01:38:37,720 --> 01:38:40,319
So stop making things up. If you don't know, it's okay.

1893
01:38:40,399 --> 01:38:43,680
So you don't know, because if you speak and ignorance,

1894
01:38:44,000 --> 01:38:46,039
if God is real, your God is is gonna punish you.

1895
01:38:46,560 --> 01:38:50,840
Speaker 18: Say hello, wan so little because because I'll not look

1896
01:38:51,479 --> 01:38:51,800
the same.

1897
01:38:51,880 --> 01:38:53,359
Speaker 1: Look, I know what means.

1898
01:38:54,880 --> 01:38:57,239
Speaker 4: I'm gonna make it easy for you. Show me a

1899
01:38:57,319 --> 01:39:01,359
single verse where it says humans are rule spirit.

1900
01:39:03,840 --> 01:39:07,199
Speaker 18: If you look at the Arab dictionary, I'm gonna do

1901
01:39:07,319 --> 01:39:08,439
jaz on you show it to me.

1902
01:39:08,840 --> 01:39:10,840
Speaker 1: If you look at the Arabic dictionary and you look

1903
01:39:10,880 --> 01:39:12,119
at the rule, I.

1904
01:39:12,159 --> 01:39:14,560
Speaker 4: Didn't ask you. I asked you for all this dictionary

1905
01:39:14,600 --> 01:39:17,640
the Quran. Show me in the Quran where the word

1906
01:39:17,680 --> 01:39:20,239
the rule is used for a human that humans are.

1907
01:39:20,800 --> 01:39:22,520
I didn't ask your dictionary. So ye, I said, it's

1908
01:39:22,520 --> 01:39:26,920
gonna be your jenaza ah. The dictionary did not come

1909
01:39:26,960 --> 01:39:28,479
from the seventh heaven.

1910
01:39:29,840 --> 01:39:37,399
Speaker 1: Yep. So with Jesus a human, thanks for it's change object.

1911
01:39:37,920 --> 01:39:38,439
Thanks shame.

1912
01:39:39,239 --> 01:39:44,800
Speaker 4: Okay, that's what moment is a shame. Did you see

1913
01:39:44,880 --> 01:39:48,319
that I'm quoting Kuran. They want to quote dictionary. I

1914
01:39:48,319 --> 01:39:50,640
didn't know the dictionary is why he sunned down from Jabe.

1915
01:39:51,880 --> 01:39:54,479
Speaker 1: And that's your mistake. You didn't know that. I learned

1916
01:39:54,920 --> 01:39:57,159
once you, Once you figure that out, that deviation will

1917
01:39:57,199 --> 01:39:58,680
lead your heart. Thank you, sir.

1918
01:39:59,119 --> 01:40:01,079
Speaker 3: All right, So we got one of your old friends

1919
01:40:01,119 --> 01:40:06,560
here that is excited to see you, and uh, you know,

1920
01:40:06,600 --> 01:40:08,920
I'm just go ahead and let them let them do

1921
01:40:09,000 --> 01:40:09,600
a thing here.

1922
01:40:10,800 --> 01:40:13,439
Speaker 4: Yes, uh this guy.

1923
01:40:18,479 --> 01:40:22,079
Speaker 2: Still yeah, yeah, she's still married to me.

1924
01:40:22,399 --> 01:40:27,039
Speaker 4: The preserver she at least worships the Trinity. So but anyway,

1925
01:40:27,800 --> 01:40:29,800
Jay wants to ask you questions about Jay.

1926
01:40:29,800 --> 01:40:32,760
Speaker 17: Go ahead, help help my wait wait, wait, wait, because

1927
01:40:32,960 --> 01:40:35,199
I want to catch up on the last word you say.

1928
01:40:35,840 --> 01:40:38,920
Besides to be honest, I wanted to be a conversation

1929
01:40:39,119 --> 01:40:40,960
and discussion, not argument.

1930
01:40:41,159 --> 01:40:43,199
Speaker 4: You don't want to let me tell people are no?

1931
01:40:44,119 --> 01:40:47,399
Speaker 17: Look, look, look when I'm talking, please listen to me

1932
01:40:47,479 --> 01:40:51,119
to the end. Don't interrupt me, and let's enjoy this.

1933
01:40:52,800 --> 01:40:54,760
Can you for four years?

1934
01:40:55,960 --> 01:40:56,199
Speaker 18: Sam?

1935
01:40:56,600 --> 01:40:57,000
Speaker 1: You block?

1936
01:40:59,239 --> 01:41:00,600
Speaker 4: So people know why? I know you don't.

1937
01:41:00,680 --> 01:41:03,239
Speaker 2: You don't have to explain history.

1938
01:41:04,079 --> 01:41:09,399
Speaker 17: Let's start with talking about the rule, and let's Koran

1939
01:41:09,760 --> 01:41:15,279
answer the question about the rule a lot of Sura

1940
01:41:15,600 --> 01:41:25,399
forty two fifty two. He said, like, well, immen, well

1941
01:41:29,119 --> 01:41:33,960
and those we have revealed a spirit from our command.

1942
01:41:34,399 --> 01:41:38,720
Yet you did did not know the book nor the face,

1943
01:41:39,960 --> 01:41:41,520
but we make it a light.

1944
01:41:43,000 --> 01:41:47,159
Speaker 4: Who were What's my question about the spirit? Lets see

1945
01:41:47,159 --> 01:41:50,560
if you even know what my question was? What was

1946
01:41:50,600 --> 01:41:51,000
my question?

1947
01:41:51,760 --> 01:41:56,279
Speaker 2: Yeah? Here we are we start. I'm gonna look.

1948
01:41:58,880 --> 01:42:08,920
Speaker 19: Ward regarding that he is a rule.

1949
01:42:09,920 --> 01:42:15,239
Speaker 2: Hello, but you put it hello, but not mean a law.

1950
01:42:15,560 --> 01:42:21,000
The spirit of God, not the spirit of God. Please

1951
01:42:21,039 --> 01:42:21,880
please please.

1952
01:42:22,840 --> 01:42:25,399
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, you got. You gotta let your name

1953
01:42:25,520 --> 01:42:26,920
because you've been going on a minute.

1954
01:42:27,279 --> 01:42:28,600
Speaker 4: Let me now do on.

1955
01:42:28,720 --> 01:42:34,840
Speaker 2: You know if you heard I'm still young, you want

1956
01:42:34,880 --> 01:42:37,760
to leave more. I don't want Janaza now please, I.

1957
01:42:39,680 --> 01:42:40,119
Speaker 4: Don't want you.

1958
01:42:40,199 --> 01:42:42,439
Speaker 2: Wait wait wait wait.

1959
01:42:48,239 --> 01:42:52,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, go to the Blackstone for you guys. If you

1960
01:42:52,800 --> 01:42:56,039
guys don't know this dream. I debated this guy. He

1961
01:42:56,199 --> 01:43:00,800
manifested in the debate. He blasphem Jesus, and I obliterated him,

1962
01:43:01,439 --> 01:43:04,920
annihilated him, made his prophet cry from hell. You could

1963
01:43:04,960 --> 01:43:07,119
go watch it the beat on my YouTube channel. We

1964
01:43:07,199 --> 01:43:10,199
were having a debate. He insulted, blaspheming Jesus, and I said,

1965
01:43:10,239 --> 01:43:13,439
the gods loves are off. I made his profit cry

1966
01:43:13,479 --> 01:43:15,039
from the pit of help. By the way, I don't

1967
01:43:15,039 --> 01:43:17,920
know if you were there. He was actually I think

1968
01:43:18,000 --> 01:43:20,199
in the video and to his credit, by the way,

1969
01:43:20,800 --> 01:43:24,119
I believe he was in the video or he was

1970
01:43:24,239 --> 01:43:28,119
there when I believe Hattune Guy's fact checked me either

1971
01:43:28,279 --> 01:43:31,600
got slapped. I think he was there, not that he

1972
01:43:31,720 --> 01:43:34,319
condoned it. To his credit, he didn't condone it, but

1973
01:43:34,399 --> 01:43:36,600
he was there the background in speaker's corner.

1974
01:43:36,640 --> 01:43:42,239
Speaker 1: But go ahead, that was just a nice little for

1975
01:43:42,359 --> 01:43:45,479
me as for my gift to you, Sam I.

1976
01:43:45,439 --> 01:43:48,079
Speaker 4: They don't listen. Misrepresentative argument.

1977
01:43:48,680 --> 01:43:48,960
Speaker 1: Loved it.

1978
01:43:49,680 --> 01:43:52,680
Speaker 4: Uh so the guy's married to a Catholic home poor woman?

1979
01:43:52,800 --> 01:43:53,800
What did she do to herself?

1980
01:43:54,560 --> 01:43:58,920
Speaker 1: Wow? Made the Lord continue to help her?

1981
01:43:59,199 --> 01:43:59,479
Speaker 2: All right?

1982
01:43:59,520 --> 01:44:00,960
Speaker 1: We got super chat from Manny.

1983
01:44:00,960 --> 01:44:04,079
Speaker 3: He says, hey, chat, GBT, how do you follow Jesus

1984
01:44:04,199 --> 01:44:07,079
Christ when you know nothing about Jesus Christ?

1985
01:44:07,760 --> 01:44:12,359
Speaker 1: How does that work? Be a Muslim? Easy? Easy as pie?

1986
01:44:12,840 --> 01:44:14,800
And we also got a shout out for Ap. Were

1987
01:44:14,840 --> 01:44:15,399
you at ap?

1988
01:44:15,880 --> 01:44:18,399
Speaker 3: We got Yah Yah in the building. Man Ap ain't

1989
01:44:18,520 --> 01:44:21,880
nowhere to be found, all right, So let's go ahead

1990
01:44:21,960 --> 01:44:25,000
and oh, actually got a question for you Jay. Here

1991
01:44:26,000 --> 01:44:29,199
is Jay familiar with John of Damascus and him dealing

1992
01:44:29,279 --> 01:44:29,920
with Islam?

1993
01:44:30,439 --> 01:44:33,760
Speaker 1: I'm sure he is. And can he say something short

1994
01:44:33,840 --> 01:44:34,760
about it? Thank you?

1995
01:44:35,399 --> 01:44:37,000
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean that came up earlier in the debate.

1996
01:44:37,119 --> 01:44:42,479
We the very beginning we discussed John about John writings

1997
01:44:42,520 --> 01:44:46,760
on this. Yeah, I mean, I think the overall he

1998
01:44:46,960 --> 01:44:51,199
was vindicated in modern scholarship in terms of his thesis

1999
01:44:51,319 --> 01:44:53,279
on where it came from. You know, the story is

2000
01:44:53,319 --> 01:44:56,159
that he was described to you know, one of the

2001
01:44:56,239 --> 01:45:01,239
early colleagues. So he knew do it pretty directly. He

2002
01:45:01,279 --> 01:45:04,319
said it was influenced by arianism and historianism. That's been

2003
01:45:04,399 --> 01:45:10,319
vindicated by modern academic scholarship. The Oxford Handbook Islam vindicates that.

2004
01:45:10,520 --> 01:45:14,800
But I think probably, you know, after his time, Islam

2005
01:45:15,119 --> 01:45:20,119
evolved into different traditions, different schools or you know, Akida.

2006
01:45:20,880 --> 01:45:24,039
So it's it's very valuable and he's right about the basics.

2007
01:45:24,079 --> 01:45:26,399
But I think in order to you know, really address

2008
01:45:27,680 --> 01:45:30,520
Islam and in terms of apologetics, we need more than

2009
01:45:30,720 --> 01:45:33,560
just the early Saint John Damascus Arab.

2010
01:45:36,000 --> 01:45:40,560
Speaker 3: Awesome, awesome, thanks for that. Jay, we got a super

2011
01:45:40,640 --> 01:45:43,319
chef from Andrew. Love you, Avery, and I love your work.

2012
01:45:43,920 --> 01:45:46,920
Thank you for reigniting the flame that feels my love

2013
01:45:47,000 --> 01:45:49,640
for Christ. Amen, Glory to God. My question for you,

2014
01:45:50,119 --> 01:45:53,359
is there any significance to the singing to singing trash

2015
01:45:53,399 --> 01:45:56,960
in the camp from Tarzia. Yeah, it's usually when I

2016
01:45:57,039 --> 01:46:01,319
sing that little melody, that's usually when the Muslims are

2017
01:46:01,680 --> 01:46:04,840
searching for something I said, they make a claim I may,

2018
01:46:04,920 --> 01:46:06,880
I ask them to prove it, and they're taken forever

2019
01:46:06,960 --> 01:46:10,119
to prove it. So that's the little intermission song that

2020
01:46:10,239 --> 01:46:12,079
I sing to pass the time.

2021
01:46:12,359 --> 01:46:14,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, so those are little funny thing.

2022
01:46:15,119 --> 01:46:16,600
Speaker 5: One thing I'd like to add before we go to

2023
01:46:16,600 --> 01:46:18,359
the next guy is that you know, whenever we hear

2024
01:46:18,439 --> 01:46:20,279
this argument. I know you guys know this, but for

2025
01:46:20,399 --> 01:46:22,960
the people in the audience, when you hear this argument

2026
01:46:23,039 --> 01:46:25,920
that all the Bible's corrupted, in the mind of the Muslim,

2027
01:46:25,960 --> 01:46:28,199
I think most of the time they're thinking that, oh,

2028
01:46:28,239 --> 01:46:30,520
it's going to be this verse over here or that

2029
01:46:30,720 --> 01:46:33,720
verse over there. When you really know the Bible really well,

2030
01:46:33,920 --> 01:46:36,760
for example, to say that the Old Testament, when it

2031
01:46:36,960 --> 01:46:40,279
demonstrates a tryad or it demonstrates they often needs which

2032
01:46:40,319 --> 01:46:42,800
proved the deed to Christ or whatever like. They're not

2033
01:46:42,920 --> 01:46:47,319
understanding that this would be a vast corruption all throughout

2034
01:46:47,399 --> 01:46:50,079
the Old Testament, this would be a vast corruption throughout

2035
01:46:50,119 --> 01:46:51,000
the Psalms.

2036
01:46:50,640 --> 01:46:53,039
Speaker 1: Which predict the coming of the Messiah as Christ.

2037
01:46:53,520 --> 01:46:56,680
Speaker 5: I mean, in other words, you're really admitting like corruption everywhere,

2038
01:46:57,239 --> 01:46:59,640
and they don't usually think about that scale or that

2039
01:47:00,000 --> 01:47:02,760
scope of corruption. They're thinking that, oh, there's one verse

2040
01:47:02,840 --> 01:47:05,960
that they use to prove the deed Christ and John somewhere.

2041
01:47:06,199 --> 01:47:09,239
Speaker 1: No, No, the whole gospel's corrupted. It is masked.

2042
01:47:09,720 --> 01:47:13,239
Speaker 5: So now you're admitting that the prior revelation in mass

2043
01:47:13,640 --> 01:47:16,520
is corrupted, which really again undoes the whole argument.

2044
01:47:17,079 --> 01:47:18,359
Speaker 1: Yep, exactly. That's good.

2045
01:47:19,399 --> 01:47:21,960
Speaker 3: All right, guys, before we bring this next guest up,

2046
01:47:22,239 --> 01:47:24,199
I think I need to say for us to make

2047
01:47:24,239 --> 01:47:26,960
sure we're hitting the like button. We got Sam Schamon

2048
01:47:27,039 --> 01:47:30,079
in the house. We got Jay Die in the house cooking. Guys,

2049
01:47:30,359 --> 01:47:31,800
Let's make sure we get the likes up.

2050
01:47:31,840 --> 01:47:34,960
Speaker 4: We got us four thousand, five.

2051
01:47:34,920 --> 01:47:41,840
Speaker 1: Hundred exactly, we got all the lunch. Shoot, we got

2052
01:47:41,920 --> 01:47:43,880
almost five thousand people watching, guys.

2053
01:47:44,439 --> 01:47:47,800
Speaker 3: Uh so, everybody that's watching from Sam's channel, everybody watching here,

2054
01:47:48,319 --> 01:47:50,840
everybody smashed the like. But if you're watching on god

2055
01:47:50,880 --> 01:47:53,199
log of the channel, let's get the likes up to

2056
01:47:53,399 --> 01:47:56,800
four thousand likes. We got guys, forty two hundred people watching,

2057
01:47:57,239 --> 01:47:59,800
only two point three k likes. Let's get the likes

2058
01:47:59,840 --> 01:48:02,920
up to four thousand lights. Man, come on, this is you,

2059
01:48:03,039 --> 01:48:05,880
guys's way to support the stream, all right, So let's

2060
01:48:05,880 --> 01:48:08,159
do the same thing with if you're watching on Sam's channel,

2061
01:48:08,239 --> 01:48:09,039
get the likes up.

2062
01:48:09,119 --> 01:48:11,399
Speaker 1: Let's get the lights up to a thousand lights all right,

2063
01:48:12,239 --> 01:48:12,960
just sticking.

2064
01:48:12,680 --> 01:48:16,479
Speaker 4: Out, we got javery taking off getting ten thousand making money,

2065
01:48:16,479 --> 01:48:18,119
and Mere and Jay are panhandling to make it a

2066
01:48:18,199 --> 01:48:19,159
ministry exactly.

2067
01:48:19,199 --> 01:48:23,800
Speaker 3: These are my paid informance here. All right, let's go

2068
01:48:23,920 --> 01:48:27,000
with it. So, Omar, you are on the stage. Welcome, Omar.

2069
01:48:27,239 --> 01:48:29,560
Can you can you explain to us how how he

2070
01:48:29,760 --> 01:48:41,359
makes sense? Omar sa Nasa. Sorry, Omar, I saw you

2071
01:48:41,479 --> 01:48:42,039
un meet your mic.

2072
01:48:42,079 --> 01:48:42,199
Speaker 1: Man.

2073
01:48:42,199 --> 01:48:44,000
Speaker 3: If you're playing games, man, I'm about to kick you off.

2074
01:48:44,199 --> 01:48:50,000
Going once, going twice, gone. All right, let's see here

2075
01:48:50,079 --> 01:48:51,039
we got Pablo.

2076
01:48:51,359 --> 01:48:52,720
Speaker 1: How you doing, Pablo? Are you Muslim?

2077
01:48:53,720 --> 01:48:53,800
Speaker 2: There?

2078
01:48:53,880 --> 01:48:57,279
Speaker 1: Come? Well, it's a love I think I remember you

2079
01:48:57,359 --> 01:49:01,720
came on a few days ago, right now? Yes, why

2080
01:49:01,760 --> 01:49:02,640
did you just speak English?

2081
01:49:03,439 --> 01:49:07,800
Speaker 10: Yes? Yes, listen, I give you the likes saying Mike,

2082
01:49:07,840 --> 01:49:09,359
get a light depends on how you.

2083
01:49:09,439 --> 01:49:13,159
Speaker 1: Act, depends on how Sam acts.

2084
01:49:14,319 --> 01:49:16,039
Speaker 3: Yeah, I feel it. I feel it depends on how

2085
01:49:16,079 --> 01:49:18,119
he acts. You you'll get that, you'll hit that light button.

2086
01:49:18,800 --> 01:49:20,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, But I got I got a question.

2087
01:49:21,720 --> 01:49:25,560
Speaker 3: Wait, wait, our question first is, since you're a Muslim,

2088
01:49:25,600 --> 01:49:31,079
you followed you follow tall Heed? Right, yeah, you believe

2089
01:49:31,119 --> 01:49:33,359
that taw heat is what did you say?

2090
01:49:33,560 --> 01:49:35,640
Speaker 1: What did you say? And so.

2091
01:49:37,760 --> 01:49:37,920
Speaker 4: Yeah?

2092
01:49:38,119 --> 01:49:38,800
Speaker 2: You do you?

2093
01:49:38,960 --> 01:49:39,079
Speaker 13: Uh?

2094
01:49:39,600 --> 01:49:43,359
Speaker 3: Do you hold to the theological belief in taal heed

2095
01:49:43,439 --> 01:49:47,159
and Islam, the one that yeah, the one that's in

2096
01:49:47,279 --> 01:49:48,720
unification of all law and.

2097
01:49:51,159 --> 01:49:54,000
Speaker 1: Okay, and you believe that that's that's true and it's coherent.

2098
01:49:54,760 --> 01:49:58,960
Speaker 10: Yes, I love I love the tall heat he teaches

2099
01:49:59,760 --> 01:50:05,680
teas is me how how a law is one? He

2100
01:50:05,760 --> 01:50:09,199
has never begotten or never was begotten?

2101
01:50:10,000 --> 01:50:14,159
Speaker 1: H and and and he he he is the creative

2102
01:50:14,159 --> 01:50:17,600
of everything. Okay, nice, All right?

2103
01:50:17,920 --> 01:50:18,079
Speaker 2: Jay?

2104
01:50:18,239 --> 01:50:21,960
Speaker 1: Did you want to comment on that? Is he does

2105
01:50:22,000 --> 01:50:23,840
he have ninety nine attributes.

2106
01:50:25,840 --> 01:50:26,199
Speaker 8: A law?

2107
01:50:26,520 --> 01:50:26,720
Speaker 1: Yeah?

2108
01:50:27,079 --> 01:50:27,439
Speaker 4: He has?

2109
01:50:27,720 --> 01:50:27,880
Speaker 2: Uh?

2110
01:50:29,760 --> 01:50:33,680
Speaker 5: Yeah, he has many astributes, sir? Do they depend upon

2111
01:50:33,840 --> 01:50:36,399
one another? Is there an interdependence relationship?

2112
01:50:38,560 --> 01:50:42,439
Speaker 1: Is a law dependent on his attributes? Do the attributes

2113
01:50:42,479 --> 01:50:48,920
have a dependence relationship amongst one another? No, I'll say no.

2114
01:50:50,239 --> 01:50:53,039
Speaker 5: Oh, so they're not really distinct?

2115
01:50:53,560 --> 01:50:54,439
Speaker 1: Is he just one?

2116
01:50:54,560 --> 01:50:57,239
Speaker 5: And he appears to be having ninety nine attributes?

2117
01:50:58,760 --> 01:51:04,800
Speaker 10: A law is one and his attributes do not. His

2118
01:51:05,000 --> 01:51:07,199
attributes are don't are not dependent?

2119
01:51:08,520 --> 01:51:15,840
Speaker 1: So they self exist? Do they self exist? Yeah? I'm

2120
01:51:15,880 --> 01:51:17,520
not I'm not sure what you mean by that.

2121
01:51:17,680 --> 01:51:20,800
Speaker 5: Well, if they're not dependent, then they're independent, meaning they

2122
01:51:20,840 --> 01:51:23,800
are self existent. So you believe in ninety nine self

2123
01:51:23,880 --> 01:51:29,319
existing powers? Yes, Oh, so you're a polytheist.

2124
01:51:30,159 --> 01:51:35,119
Speaker 10: Now I believe in the Law and all his attributes.

2125
01:51:36,119 --> 01:51:38,960
Speaker 5: Well, you just said there's ninety nine self existing attributes.

2126
01:51:39,119 --> 01:51:41,840
So they don't require any other thing to exist. That's

2127
01:51:41,880 --> 01:51:45,840
what self existing. They're independent. If they're not dependent, then

2128
01:51:45,840 --> 01:51:50,199
they're independent, right, yes, okay, so then you believe in

2129
01:51:50,279 --> 01:51:51,119
ninety nine gods.

2130
01:51:51,520 --> 01:51:52,600
Speaker 1: So how are you a monethist.

2131
01:51:52,960 --> 01:51:56,199
Speaker 10: I don't believe that they depend on the Law. I mean,

2132
01:51:56,319 --> 01:51:58,840
I mean don't depend on his attributes.

2133
01:52:00,039 --> 01:52:02,800
Speaker 5: So they're independent. That means they don't they exist on.

2134
01:52:02,840 --> 01:52:05,279
Speaker 10: Their own, don't need his attributes.

2135
01:52:07,479 --> 01:52:11,760
Speaker 1: He doesn't need his attributes. No, so then they're not.

2136
01:52:12,279 --> 01:52:15,640
Speaker 5: So they're so he has changeable attributes.

2137
01:52:16,640 --> 01:52:19,079
Speaker 1: They come and go. All his knowledge comes and goes,

2138
01:52:19,119 --> 01:52:20,279
he loses it, he throws it.

2139
01:52:20,920 --> 01:52:24,880
Speaker 10: No no, no, no, his not not his not his

2140
01:52:25,039 --> 01:52:27,560
knowledge and his attributes. But they're two different things.

2141
01:52:29,199 --> 01:52:30,640
Speaker 1: Knowledge is not one of the attributes.

2142
01:52:31,720 --> 01:52:36,079
Speaker 10: All all knowledge, all knowing is one of his attributes.

2143
01:52:37,600 --> 01:52:44,359
Speaker 1: Okay, that's okay. I like five contradictions in a row.

2144
01:52:44,399 --> 01:52:45,079
I don't know where to go.

2145
01:52:45,359 --> 01:52:49,479
Speaker 5: I mean, either they're dependent or they're independent. They're independent,

2146
01:52:49,520 --> 01:52:50,680
then you have ninety nine gods.

2147
01:52:54,680 --> 01:52:57,520
Speaker 10: No, there's one god. He has many names. He goes

2148
01:52:57,600 --> 01:52:58,439
by many names.

2149
01:52:59,119 --> 01:53:04,239
Speaker 5: But you said they're all independent, so they don't need allat.

2150
01:53:06,319 --> 01:53:09,079
Speaker 10: They don't need Yeah, no, a law don't need it,

2151
01:53:09,239 --> 01:53:11,520
dumb a law don't need it.

2152
01:53:11,640 --> 01:53:15,279
Speaker 1: That they were independent, not allaw. You know, let's bring

2153
01:53:15,359 --> 01:53:18,000
up somebody that maybe can help him out. Armando? What's

2154
01:53:18,039 --> 01:53:19,000
that man? You think you can help?

2155
01:53:19,479 --> 01:53:22,319
Speaker 4: Oh? My goodness, man comes out?

2156
01:53:22,880 --> 01:53:23,680
Speaker 8: This is painful.

2157
01:53:24,239 --> 01:53:24,840
Speaker 4: What are you doing?

2158
01:53:24,960 --> 01:53:25,199
Speaker 2: Guys?

2159
01:53:25,279 --> 01:53:25,479
Speaker 1: Hey?

2160
01:53:26,079 --> 01:53:26,840
Speaker 8: What's about then?

2161
01:53:27,680 --> 01:53:27,720
Speaker 1: What?

2162
01:53:30,520 --> 01:53:33,439
Speaker 8: Nice to meet you? Nice to meet you. Hello, Avery again,

2163
01:53:34,000 --> 01:53:35,159
we have left time.

2164
01:53:36,159 --> 01:53:39,479
Speaker 4: Okay, what kind of actually that name? Armando?

2165
01:53:39,600 --> 01:53:39,960
Speaker 1: What are you?

2166
01:53:41,079 --> 01:53:42,960
Speaker 8: I'm from Venezuela, but I'm Muslim?

2167
01:53:43,520 --> 01:53:44,439
Speaker 4: Were you born Muslim?

2168
01:53:44,479 --> 01:53:46,640
Speaker 8: Or you can it born Muslim?

2169
01:53:46,720 --> 01:53:46,880
Speaker 1: Yeah?

2170
01:53:47,119 --> 01:53:49,600
Speaker 4: Okay because the name Armando. Sorry I just got thrown off.

2171
01:53:49,760 --> 01:53:52,600
Speaker 8: Also, I want to say to the comment in private chair.

2172
01:53:52,720 --> 01:53:55,199
Speaker 3: And forget the comment. Forget the comments, We get the

2173
01:53:55,239 --> 01:53:57,720
private chests, focus on the discussion.

2174
01:53:58,119 --> 01:54:00,880
Speaker 4: You ask me some Pablo you are you? Are you

2175
01:54:02,039 --> 01:54:03,119
you converted to a Slam?

2176
01:54:03,840 --> 01:54:04,039
Speaker 1: Yes?

2177
01:54:04,239 --> 01:54:06,039
Speaker 10: I was raised Catholic.

2178
01:54:06,600 --> 01:54:09,279
Speaker 4: Yeah, so how long you've been Muslim? Pablo?

2179
01:54:10,479 --> 01:54:10,640
Speaker 12: Uh?

2180
01:54:12,520 --> 01:54:13,319
Speaker 10: A couple of months?

2181
01:54:13,800 --> 01:54:14,119
Speaker 1: Okay?

2182
01:54:14,199 --> 01:54:16,239
Speaker 4: Well, what I need you to do? Even when we're

2183
01:54:16,279 --> 01:54:19,960
done here, reach out to me on Skype when you're done,

2184
01:54:19,960 --> 01:54:22,359
because I want to well get a chance. I want

2185
01:54:22,399 --> 01:54:23,800
you to talk to me one on one when you

2186
01:54:23,840 --> 01:54:25,560
get a chance. All right, So here's my Skype name.

2187
01:54:25,640 --> 01:54:26,000
Speaker 2: You got it?

2188
01:54:27,640 --> 01:54:27,960
Speaker 10: That's right.

2189
01:54:28,520 --> 01:54:34,199
Speaker 1: You take a picture you see it? Yeah, I got it.

2190
01:54:34,319 --> 01:54:34,880
Speaker 10: I snapped it.

2191
01:54:35,119 --> 01:54:38,319
Speaker 4: Contact me on Skype later because we can't just focus

2192
01:54:38,399 --> 01:54:39,960
on you. And I want to talk to you about

2193
01:54:40,279 --> 01:54:42,479
why you became Muslim, because he seemed like a respectful

2194
01:54:42,520 --> 01:54:44,560
chap and if you're respectful, we can be respectful. But

2195
01:54:44,680 --> 01:54:46,840
stick around, don't leave. So go ahead. I just want

2196
01:54:46,880 --> 01:54:47,239
to make sure.

2197
01:54:47,239 --> 01:54:49,439
Speaker 1: Go ahead. And so, so you heard what you was

2198
01:54:49,479 --> 01:54:50,279
hearing was painful.

2199
01:54:50,560 --> 01:54:52,840
Speaker 3: I'm allowing you. I'm allowing you, Amanda, to you know,

2200
01:54:52,920 --> 01:54:55,039
help help your brother out, help Pablo out a little bit.

2201
01:54:55,199 --> 01:54:56,439
Where you think it was painful?

2202
01:54:56,520 --> 01:54:57,720
Speaker 2: What do you what?

2203
01:54:57,880 --> 01:54:59,439
Speaker 1: What mistakes did you hear? Where do you think he

2204
01:54:59,479 --> 01:54:59,920
could do better?

2205
01:55:01,000 --> 01:55:01,479
Speaker 11: I mean.

2206
01:55:03,640 --> 01:55:04,000
Speaker 1: A loss?

2207
01:55:04,039 --> 01:55:08,000
Speaker 8: Attributes like they come from their name, right, So he

2208
01:55:08,119 --> 01:55:11,479
has many names, but in Islam, unless attributes are not

2209
01:55:11,640 --> 01:55:16,159
independent or separate from his essence, like they're not independent,

2210
01:55:16,279 --> 01:55:19,880
like each name of a law is independent on his own,

2211
01:55:20,319 --> 01:55:23,720
like like it's not like ninety nine names or ninety

2212
01:55:23,760 --> 01:55:25,680
nine gods, Like, we don't see.

2213
01:55:25,479 --> 01:55:25,960
Speaker 1: It that way.

2214
01:55:26,720 --> 01:55:29,159
Speaker 5: I understand that you don't have that position, but you

2215
01:55:29,319 --> 01:55:32,000
have to give some account for and what since their

2216
01:55:32,079 --> 01:55:35,159
many and what since they're different? And your own history

2217
01:55:35,199 --> 01:55:37,680
has tried to do this. You had fights and battles

2218
01:55:37,720 --> 01:55:39,720
over this in the first few centuries. So I'm always

2219
01:55:39,760 --> 01:55:43,520
curious to hear how they how you guys give an

2220
01:55:43,520 --> 01:55:47,680
account for the multiplicity? Right, So are the names really

2221
01:55:47,760 --> 01:55:49,039
different or are they identical?

2222
01:55:49,560 --> 01:55:52,399
Speaker 8: No, like for example, a lost attributes like for example,

2223
01:55:53,239 --> 01:55:56,640
his names like knowledge and Arabic or power, mercy and

2224
01:55:56,760 --> 01:56:01,000
such and such like they don't there are not independent

2225
01:56:01,079 --> 01:56:04,239
on their own, like they're not separate from his essence.

2226
01:56:04,680 --> 01:56:07,720
But for example, like when they say a lie aline

2227
01:56:07,880 --> 01:56:12,279
alanine or knowing right, his knowledge is not separate an entity,

2228
01:56:12,600 --> 01:56:14,880
like his knowledge is not an entity on his own,

2229
01:56:15,319 --> 01:56:18,159
is simply one of the perfect aspects of his essence.

2230
01:56:18,920 --> 01:56:21,760
Like we don't consider his attributes.

2231
01:56:21,600 --> 01:56:24,880
Speaker 5: Like, so you think the attributes are the essence because

2232
01:56:25,000 --> 01:56:28,680
actually part of his essence. Yeah, so all has parts.

2233
01:56:31,439 --> 01:56:34,039
What do you mean you just said part of his essence?

2234
01:56:35,199 --> 01:56:35,239
Speaker 4: No?

2235
01:56:35,439 --> 01:56:39,600
Speaker 8: No, no, no, those are those belong to his essence

2236
01:56:39,680 --> 01:56:40,439
or who he is?

2237
01:56:40,960 --> 01:56:42,359
Speaker 1: So are they part he has?

2238
01:56:43,199 --> 01:56:43,520
Speaker 8: Finger?

2239
01:56:44,000 --> 01:56:46,479
Speaker 1: Are they part whole relationships or not parts?

2240
01:56:47,560 --> 01:56:48,680
Speaker 8: No, they're not independent.

2241
01:56:48,760 --> 01:56:51,319
Speaker 5: There there who just said are they part wholes?

2242
01:56:51,760 --> 01:56:52,720
Speaker 1: You use parts, not me?

2243
01:56:54,840 --> 01:56:58,079
Speaker 8: Okay, but like you're taking the word part like you

2244
01:56:58,239 --> 01:57:01,000
use the word part, not me, right, But what I

2245
01:57:01,079 --> 01:57:03,359
mean is that it's not like parts, like different parts

2246
01:57:03,399 --> 01:57:06,199
of a body. It's just like the attributes of a

2247
01:57:06,319 --> 01:57:09,560
law or who he is, Like like does this Christ?

2248
01:57:09,640 --> 01:57:11,840
Speaker 1: Who is? But wait a minute, most Muslims? Are you

2249
01:57:11,920 --> 01:57:16,640
a Shia? No, I'm sure, But so every sooner you I've.

2250
01:57:16,560 --> 01:57:19,079
Speaker 8: Ever heard, even Avery shake you're gonna let me.

2251
01:57:19,640 --> 01:57:22,239
Speaker 5: Every sooner I've ever heard of believes that there's really

2252
01:57:22,319 --> 01:57:28,279
a distinction between all and I mean its attributes. Every what,

2253
01:57:29,640 --> 01:57:32,640
every sooner I've ever debated with believes that there really

2254
01:57:32,800 --> 01:57:35,359
is a difference between all and his attributes, that they're

2255
01:57:35,399 --> 01:57:37,479
not identical and they're not the same as his essence.

2256
01:57:38,560 --> 01:57:40,640
Speaker 8: I mean, that's part of his divine essence.

2257
01:57:40,720 --> 01:57:43,119
Speaker 1: It's not like a Now you're saying parts again, So

2258
01:57:43,279 --> 01:57:44,239
is it parts holes or not?

2259
01:57:44,479 --> 01:57:48,319
Speaker 8: I mean, I say parts, but the way I mean it,

2260
01:57:48,640 --> 01:57:52,720
like it's like that's who he is. You're taking me

2261
01:57:52,880 --> 01:57:55,600
saying parts like he has different parts, like different parts

2262
01:57:55,640 --> 01:57:58,000
of my body. But no, it's like who he is

2263
01:57:58,199 --> 01:57:59,960
is this comes back on camera.

2264
01:58:00,000 --> 01:58:01,279
Speaker 1: I I whened to see a beautiful face.

2265
01:58:01,319 --> 01:58:06,600
Speaker 4: Man hold on a thing by the way, before Jake continued,

2266
01:58:06,600 --> 01:58:09,680
I just wanted curious because you said you're Sudney and

2267
01:58:09,800 --> 01:58:11,479
you said it's not like your body. I just want

2268
01:58:11,520 --> 01:58:13,279
to make for clarification because I haven't.

2269
01:58:13,119 --> 01:58:15,399
Speaker 8: Because I think it's Spanish, and then my English is

2270
01:58:15,479 --> 01:58:15,760
kind of like.

2271
01:58:16,359 --> 01:58:18,199
Speaker 4: It's okay, I don't problem in English. I just want

2272
01:58:18,239 --> 01:58:23,840
to know though good English, Bablo, Man, don't forget to

2273
01:58:23,880 --> 01:58:27,239
contact me. Now. Though you say you're Sudney, do you

2274
01:58:27,399 --> 01:58:30,960
believe what the set of facial I believe that Allah's

2275
01:58:31,760 --> 01:58:37,159
foot his shin unlike anything in creation. But he does

2276
01:58:37,319 --> 01:58:38,520
have a foot and a shin.

2277
01:58:41,960 --> 01:58:43,960
Speaker 10: Yeah, but not like mine or yours.

2278
01:58:44,159 --> 01:58:46,239
Speaker 4: Yeah, Bablo, I know that man. I know your selfe

2279
01:58:46,479 --> 01:58:49,520
we talked. I want to know his position because he

2280
01:58:49,680 --> 01:58:53,720
just told Jay Allah doesn't have parts like me, parts

2281
01:58:53,760 --> 01:58:56,800
of my body. But I want to know if he's

2282
01:58:56,880 --> 01:59:01,600
a cell efie. Does he believe a lot hands? But

2283
01:59:01,760 --> 01:59:04,359
you don't make real you don't say, oh, hand means power. No,

2284
01:59:04,439 --> 01:59:06,560
he has hands, but unlike anything creation. Is that what

2285
01:59:06,680 --> 01:59:07,039
you believe?

2286
01:59:08,359 --> 01:59:10,640
Speaker 8: No? No, no, no, Like when I say like the

2287
01:59:10,760 --> 01:59:12,800
attributes of from now are part of him, I'm not

2288
01:59:12,880 --> 01:59:15,960
saying part of him, like like different parts of a body,

2289
01:59:16,319 --> 01:59:17,079
like no, No, I know.

2290
01:59:17,159 --> 01:59:20,239
Speaker 4: That I would to believe about Allah's foot and shin

2291
01:59:20,680 --> 01:59:23,880
and hands and eyes. Do you believe he has actual

2292
01:59:23,920 --> 01:59:25,039
eyes unlike anything?

2293
01:59:25,640 --> 01:59:30,119
Speaker 8: No, actually without the offense of like in the Quran,

2294
01:59:30,600 --> 01:59:33,399
like if you translated to English, it's like he has

2295
01:59:33,479 --> 01:59:36,960
the knowledge, like he has the power of thing without eyes,

2296
01:59:37,119 --> 01:59:38,000
like he can hear with it.

2297
01:59:38,079 --> 01:59:40,680
Speaker 4: Then you're not Selffie. You're just with Pablo because you

2298
01:59:40,800 --> 01:59:44,920
are then Asher. Because Pablo says, no, Allah has a

2299
01:59:44,960 --> 01:59:48,920
foot unlike anything creation, you said no, and you're both sunny.

2300
01:59:51,079 --> 01:59:53,640
So now, Pablo, let me ask him something you just

2301
01:59:53,720 --> 01:59:57,880
said because you're selfie. Allah has an actual foot unlike

2302
01:59:57,960 --> 02:00:02,239
your foot, right yeah, and he has hands unlike your hands.

2303
02:00:02,319 --> 02:00:07,399
Right yes, but he said, and he said he's saying no, no,

2304
02:00:07,479 --> 02:00:10,399
hands means power. So which of you are right about this?

2305
02:00:13,039 --> 02:00:14,000
Speaker 10: Hands means power?

2306
02:00:14,119 --> 02:00:19,479
Speaker 4: Sam, you said, he said, mmm, you just said Armando,

2307
02:00:19,600 --> 02:00:22,359
you said in Arabic the hands, we would say power.

2308
02:00:22,439 --> 02:00:23,960
So does he have actual hands or no?

2309
02:00:25,439 --> 02:00:26,520
Speaker 8: When did I fagn Arabic?

2310
02:00:27,640 --> 02:00:29,800
Speaker 4: You just said two minutes ago that when I'm reading

2311
02:00:29,840 --> 02:00:32,800
Arabic hands, when we say thing, you mean power. It's

2312
02:00:33,319 --> 02:00:36,520
don't nott rewind that clip. But okay, do you believe

2313
02:00:36,560 --> 02:00:37,399
Allah has hands?

2314
02:00:37,479 --> 02:00:37,960
Speaker 1: Yes? Or no?

2315
02:00:38,800 --> 02:00:38,840
Speaker 2: No?

2316
02:00:39,039 --> 02:00:39,079
Speaker 15: No?

2317
02:00:39,239 --> 02:00:39,279
Speaker 1: No?

2318
02:00:40,039 --> 02:00:43,359
Speaker 4: Okay? Then why argue with me? So, Pablo, does Ala

2319
02:00:43,439 --> 02:00:44,279
have actual hands?

2320
02:00:45,359 --> 02:00:46,119
Speaker 1: I don't know about it?

2321
02:00:46,199 --> 02:00:47,920
Speaker 2: Said hands? I know he has a.

2322
02:00:48,119 --> 02:00:51,000
Speaker 4: Hand, okay, ah hand, but does he says he has

2323
02:00:51,039 --> 02:00:53,520
two right hands, But does he have an actual hand?

2324
02:00:53,600 --> 02:00:59,079
That's unlike anything right? Yes, but here Armando says no,

2325
02:00:59,680 --> 02:01:02,439
he does and have But you're both.

2326
02:01:04,439 --> 02:01:07,000
Speaker 5: And historically they call each other idolators.

2327
02:01:07,039 --> 02:01:09,720
Speaker 4: By the way, really, Jay, you can take it from

2328
02:01:09,760 --> 02:01:10,159
there now.

2329
02:01:11,439 --> 02:01:14,159
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean this is exactly The point was to

2330
02:01:14,279 --> 02:01:17,439
point out that you guys don't actually have a coherent conception.

2331
02:01:17,520 --> 02:01:19,720
It's all he You don't even know whether there's body

2332
02:01:19,760 --> 02:01:20,199
parts or not.

2333
02:01:21,119 --> 02:01:24,239
Speaker 3: Jay, you mean to tell me, yeah, but what on

2334
02:01:24,319 --> 02:01:26,319
Armnic because I need a clarification. Jay, you mean to

2335
02:01:26,399 --> 02:01:30,720
tell me that within Islam, within Sunni Islam, they're not

2336
02:01:30,960 --> 02:01:32,479
even united on.

2337
02:01:33,039 --> 02:01:37,039
Speaker 1: The most basic the most, the most coherent concept of

2338
02:01:37,199 --> 02:01:40,560
God because there's oneness and uniqueness. They're not they don't

2339
02:01:40,640 --> 02:01:42,119
just have one single belief on that.

2340
02:01:43,399 --> 02:01:45,399
Speaker 5: I thought it was simple, right, it's supposed to be

2341
02:01:46,079 --> 02:01:47,640
and it was supposed to be clear and simple.

2342
02:01:47,720 --> 02:01:50,119
Speaker 8: But good, yeah, pretty good.

2343
02:01:50,600 --> 02:01:50,800
Speaker 4: Yeah?

2344
02:01:51,319 --> 02:01:55,039
Speaker 10: Yeah okay. But no, so y'all y'all making it difficult.

2345
02:01:55,119 --> 02:01:59,960
Speaker 4: No, no, you guys' this is y'all disagree.

2346
02:02:00,800 --> 02:02:01,680
Speaker 2: No, but I didn't.

2347
02:02:01,800 --> 02:02:05,119
Speaker 13: I didn't hear the man say that average big hands

2348
02:02:05,239 --> 02:02:05,840
means power.

2349
02:02:05,960 --> 02:02:06,800
Speaker 2: I didn't even hear the no.

2350
02:02:06,960 --> 02:02:09,640
Speaker 1: But he just said what they believe, Pablo.

2351
02:02:09,880 --> 02:02:12,760
Speaker 4: He just said Allah doesn't have a hand. You said

2352
02:02:12,800 --> 02:02:13,760
he does, unlike anything.

2353
02:02:14,279 --> 02:02:17,039
Speaker 8: Okay, So in Islam, the question of whether Allah has

2354
02:02:17,079 --> 02:02:20,520
a hand like if if it's approached differently, it's like

2355
02:02:20,960 --> 02:02:28,600
in a metaphorical understanding, not his position. No, okay, let

2356
02:02:28,640 --> 02:02:29,880
me ask a question.

2357
02:02:30,319 --> 02:02:34,199
Speaker 4: Let me just tak it. Let me take a certification.

2358
02:02:34,640 --> 02:02:41,600
The celeffie like Muslim metaphysician will tell you Allah has hands.

2359
02:02:42,920 --> 02:02:45,560
It's more than one because of chapter thirty eight, verse

2360
02:02:45,600 --> 02:02:47,399
seventy five of the Koran. But we put that aside.

2361
02:02:47,720 --> 02:02:50,079
He has a foot, yesertion. He debated jay Go watching

2362
02:02:50,119 --> 02:02:53,039
the bag. He says it, yes, but he says unlike

2363
02:02:53,119 --> 02:02:57,319
anything you amandor saying no he doesn't have a hand,

2364
02:02:58,479 --> 02:03:01,840
the celaffie say he has, saying hand, it's unlike any hand.

2365
02:03:02,039 --> 02:03:04,000
You're saying no he doesn't have a hand. That's you're

2366
02:03:04,000 --> 02:03:04,960
not saying the same thing.

2367
02:03:07,880 --> 02:03:10,399
Speaker 8: Yeah, But like, can I ask a question like, hey, Paulo,

2368
02:03:11,119 --> 02:03:12,800
how how long you've been a Muslim?

2369
02:03:14,000 --> 02:03:22,000
Speaker 13: Ah about I say about let me see October twelve

2370
02:03:23,000 --> 02:03:24,560
mm hmm okay, so.

2371
02:03:27,119 --> 02:03:30,279
Speaker 4: October thirty first, didn't you come with some one Halloween? Oh?

2372
02:03:30,319 --> 02:03:37,520
Speaker 8: Come on, okay, No, come on man, Okay, no, don't

2373
02:03:37,560 --> 02:03:41,199
don't do that to Okay. So like when we say

2374
02:03:41,279 --> 02:03:43,960
hands and stuff like that about the life in a

2375
02:03:44,039 --> 02:03:47,640
metaphorical perspective, not like because.

2376
02:03:50,439 --> 02:03:53,760
Speaker 4: Armando you you're the one putting him down. No, you're

2377
02:03:53,880 --> 02:03:56,520
saying all Muslims agreed to they don't. I just mentioned

2378
02:03:57,239 --> 02:04:01,079
there are Muslims like check Assem and Hakim, the Abu

2379
02:04:01,199 --> 02:04:06,880
Amina Bilal Phillips, even Muslim metaphysician. They take Pablo's positions.

2380
02:04:06,920 --> 02:04:08,520
See when you ask him how long are Muslim? See

2381
02:04:08,520 --> 02:04:10,560
you're trying to say, oh, you just came to a stime.

2382
02:04:10,600 --> 02:04:13,600
You don't know. No no, no, no, no, no, okay,

2383
02:04:13,960 --> 02:04:16,640
but do you want to now agree so we can

2384
02:04:16,720 --> 02:04:19,479
get to the next point you have In Sunia Slam,

2385
02:04:20,199 --> 02:04:24,680
you have people that say these are the sefat the

2386
02:04:24,720 --> 02:04:26,920
attributes of the law. He has a hand, even check

2387
02:04:28,000 --> 02:04:31,680
he says it. He has a hand, he has a foot,

2388
02:04:32,239 --> 02:04:36,199
he has a shin. We don't say it's metaphorical, but

2389
02:04:36,279 --> 02:04:39,920
it's unlike any integration. They don't take your position on Mando.

2390
02:04:40,039 --> 02:04:42,399
So you're you keep thinking, also needs agree with you.

2391
02:04:42,520 --> 02:04:42,960
They don't.

2392
02:04:43,560 --> 02:04:46,520
Speaker 8: I'm not saying alson disagree with me, okay, but what.

2393
02:04:46,600 --> 02:04:47,239
Speaker 4: Your view is right?

2394
02:04:49,000 --> 02:04:51,119
Speaker 8: I mean, I just my view is according to what

2395
02:04:51,239 --> 02:04:53,880
I read in the Koran. And then when I ask

2396
02:04:53,960 --> 02:04:55,800
to my chef, and when I go to the mosque

2397
02:04:55,840 --> 02:04:58,319
and I ask questions because I cannot sit here and

2398
02:04:58,399 --> 02:05:01,279
be like, oh, I'm a scholar, of course, But when

2399
02:05:01,319 --> 02:05:03,159
I read and I have questions, I ask him, this

2400
02:05:03,319 --> 02:05:05,159
is what I've been educated.

2401
02:05:05,720 --> 02:05:07,920
Speaker 5: So when I read, when I read sunny text that

2402
02:05:08,039 --> 02:05:11,600
say that the anthropomorphis or heretics and committing shirk, which

2403
02:05:11,640 --> 02:05:12,039
one's right?

2404
02:05:13,159 --> 02:05:14,079
Speaker 8: Can you repeat that question?

2405
02:05:15,560 --> 02:05:20,319
Speaker 5: I read sunny scholars that say that anthropomorphists are idolators

2406
02:05:20,359 --> 02:05:21,279
in committing shirk.

2407
02:05:21,439 --> 02:05:22,640
Speaker 1: How do I which one's right.

2408
02:05:24,039 --> 02:05:29,880
Speaker 8: For morphous I'm not familiar the sella who says hands

2409
02:05:29,960 --> 02:05:31,880
and foot but they're not not aphorical.

2410
02:05:32,560 --> 02:05:35,720
Speaker 4: Your group say they are heretics.

2411
02:05:37,119 --> 02:05:39,680
Speaker 8: He keeps faming my group. I don't have a group.

2412
02:05:40,119 --> 02:05:43,479
Speaker 1: Okay, So he so he doesn't know.

2413
02:05:43,560 --> 02:05:46,079
Speaker 5: Within Islam you have akida schools.

2414
02:05:47,399 --> 02:05:48,359
Speaker 1: Making up right.

2415
02:05:49,399 --> 02:05:52,199
Speaker 8: So when when I read like God has hands or

2416
02:05:52,720 --> 02:05:55,399
or or he has judgment or whatever, I don't see

2417
02:05:55,439 --> 02:05:58,720
it as a as like human understanding of like hands.

2418
02:05:58,880 --> 02:06:02,239
Speaker 4: Like that's not the argument, Pablo Armando. No, let me

2419
02:06:02,319 --> 02:06:05,800
repeat the argument more time, Okay, Okay, No one is

2420
02:06:05,880 --> 02:06:09,520
saying that the celea fees believe Allah's hand is like

2421
02:06:09,640 --> 02:06:15,560
human hand. No, No, he has a hand unlike any hand,

2422
02:06:15,720 --> 02:06:16,640
but he has a hand.

2423
02:06:22,520 --> 02:06:22,840
Speaker 1: I don't.

2424
02:06:23,439 --> 02:06:25,720
Speaker 8: I don't necessarily support that, Okay.

2425
02:06:25,760 --> 02:06:26,920
Speaker 4: But then I have a question for you.

2426
02:06:27,239 --> 02:06:27,560
Speaker 1: Okay.

2427
02:06:28,239 --> 02:06:32,119
Speaker 4: If you're telling me the hands of a law means

2428
02:06:32,279 --> 02:06:33,640
power his power, right?

2429
02:06:33,920 --> 02:06:35,039
Speaker 8: No, I didn't say that.

2430
02:06:35,359 --> 02:06:37,039
Speaker 4: Okay. Now, what does it mean when it says Allah

2431
02:06:37,039 --> 02:06:38,640
has hands for the love of Islam?

2432
02:06:39,199 --> 02:06:41,600
Speaker 8: Okay, what does it mean you're saying that? I say

2433
02:06:41,680 --> 02:06:47,520
hands means power? Attribute whenever I see an attribute like,

2434
02:06:47,640 --> 02:06:50,079
I don't see it in a like in a way

2435
02:06:50,199 --> 02:06:52,840
that we humans see it like in Islam. It's very

2436
02:06:52,880 --> 02:06:55,760
it's very clear, it's very basic context of Islam that

2437
02:06:56,319 --> 02:06:57,319
you're contradicting yourself.

2438
02:06:57,319 --> 02:07:00,560
Speaker 4: You just told me that you say it's matter a floricle,

2439
02:07:00,680 --> 02:07:01,239
and I told.

2440
02:07:01,119 --> 02:07:02,079
Speaker 8: You it's metaphorical.

2441
02:07:02,119 --> 02:07:03,520
Speaker 1: It's not like we're doing.

2442
02:07:03,600 --> 02:07:04,680
Speaker 4: So what does the hand mean?

2443
02:07:04,840 --> 02:07:10,279
Speaker 8: If it's a metaphor, it can mean different things according

2444
02:07:10,279 --> 02:07:11,399
to the context.

2445
02:07:11,159 --> 02:07:14,079
Speaker 4: Of Okay, give me some definitions of hands.

2446
02:07:14,840 --> 02:07:15,159
Speaker 12: Uh.

2447
02:07:17,159 --> 02:07:18,720
Speaker 8: Man, I have to go to the Koran.

2448
02:07:19,800 --> 02:07:21,880
Speaker 4: What come on, buddy Chorn. If it says Allah has

2449
02:07:21,920 --> 02:07:25,119
a hand, his hand is over you, what does that mean?

2450
02:07:25,199 --> 02:07:26,319
His hands over your hand.

2451
02:07:26,359 --> 02:07:29,920
Speaker 8: Over you's like? It can mean like protection, like he's

2452
02:07:30,279 --> 02:07:31,319
like he can protect you.

2453
02:07:31,640 --> 02:07:34,439
Speaker 4: Okay, When it says all I created Adam.

2454
02:07:34,159 --> 02:07:39,159
Speaker 8: With his hands, Yeah, with his power.

2455
02:07:39,279 --> 02:07:41,920
Speaker 4: Maybe with like But you just told me that hands

2456
02:07:41,960 --> 02:07:42,760
doesn't mean power.

2457
02:07:43,479 --> 02:07:46,239
Speaker 8: Yeah, because I never mentioned it until now you did.

2458
02:07:47,760 --> 02:07:48,720
When did I mention it?

2459
02:07:49,079 --> 02:07:50,319
Speaker 1: You mentioned it before we start?

2460
02:07:51,439 --> 02:07:53,680
Speaker 4: Can you share my screen for a second, I'm sorry,

2461
02:07:53,840 --> 02:07:56,039
then you can continue. Do you want to have answer

2462
02:07:56,079 --> 02:07:58,239
to this? You got my screen up because my pages

2463
02:07:59,880 --> 02:08:04,880
if you're telling me that Allah's hands means his power

2464
02:08:05,159 --> 02:08:09,880
when it says Allah created Adam is way okay? Well,

2465
02:08:10,000 --> 02:08:13,199
in this context you told me when Allah created Adam

2466
02:08:13,239 --> 02:08:14,479
with his hands, it means his power.

2467
02:08:15,279 --> 02:08:15,600
Speaker 1: Okay.

2468
02:08:16,199 --> 02:08:20,199
Speaker 4: Here Allah's telling it, beliez, oh blease, what prevents you

2469
02:08:20,960 --> 02:08:24,000
from prostrating thyself to one who I've created my hands?

2470
02:08:24,079 --> 02:08:26,760
So here when he tells the blase, I created Adam

2471
02:08:26,800 --> 02:08:28,319
with my hands, what does hands mean?

2472
02:08:28,399 --> 02:08:28,520
Speaker 3: Here?

2473
02:08:32,560 --> 02:08:36,760
Speaker 4: Where m Chapter thirty eighth of the Crown versus seventy

2474
02:08:36,760 --> 02:08:39,920
one seventy five? Here? Right, I'm gonna highlight it right,

2475
02:08:41,119 --> 02:08:41,880
Oh it please?

2476
02:08:42,159 --> 02:08:46,880
Speaker 8: Oh it please? What prevents thee from Australian thyself to

2477
02:08:47,279 --> 02:08:49,720
one who might have created with my hands?

2478
02:08:50,520 --> 02:08:51,239
Speaker 4: What his hands mean?

2479
02:08:51,319 --> 02:08:53,119
Speaker 1: Here? Uh?

2480
02:08:54,680 --> 02:08:57,279
Speaker 8: So it does the hands this verse speak about like

2481
02:08:57,359 --> 02:09:00,520
the hand of a love but in a contextating.

2482
02:09:00,399 --> 02:09:01,880
Speaker 4: What does he mean he created with his hands?

2483
02:09:05,239 --> 02:09:05,439
Speaker 2: Yeah?

2484
02:09:06,520 --> 02:09:08,960
Speaker 4: I want Armando's position. I want to see what does

2485
02:09:09,000 --> 02:09:10,239
it mean he created with his hands?

2486
02:09:11,439 --> 02:09:13,960
Speaker 8: Like in states like I see it. That's like a

2487
02:09:14,079 --> 02:09:16,439
lot of absolute power and control over act.

2488
02:09:16,640 --> 02:09:18,680
Speaker 4: We created Adam with his power, right right?

2489
02:09:18,840 --> 02:09:18,960
Speaker 1: Right?

2490
02:09:19,720 --> 02:09:21,640
Speaker 4: But did he create Ablise with his power?

2491
02:09:26,239 --> 02:09:26,439
Speaker 1: Yeah?

2492
02:09:27,439 --> 02:09:30,239
Speaker 4: So then what's the difference between Abliez