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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to Destiny. Now here's your host, Cliff Dunning.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, we're into a little bit of a late delivery

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<v Speaker 2>this week. We had this Mars program, the Face on

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<v Speaker 2>Mars program that we launched yesterday, and it ate up

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<v Speaker 2>our time for releasing this week's Destiny and it's a

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<v Speaker 2>special program. I got to tell you the material this

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<v Speaker 2>week is zen Buddhism, but not just the religion, it's

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<v Speaker 2>what came out of it in Japan in the fifteen hundreds.

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<v Speaker 2>This is the Japanese medieval period, and it's all about

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<v Speaker 2>samurai and the agility, clarity, and the calm and the

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<v Speaker 2>whole mental state that these men and women, because there

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<v Speaker 2>were women that not necessarily were samurai, but there were

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<v Speaker 2>the wives of the samurai. There were the various rulers,

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<v Speaker 2>consort consorts, and it's a whole society based on a

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<v Speaker 2>level of consciousness that we'll be discussing today. And my

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<v Speaker 2>guest Anthony Cummins has written just he's written ten books

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<v Speaker 2>on the samurai and when we are asking him questions

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<v Speaker 2>regarding the mindset, it's fascinating. He's a historian of ancient

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<v Speaker 2>Japanese culture and I would think the most well versed Caucasian,

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<v Speaker 2>non Japanese historian that I've ever run into. So that's

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<v Speaker 2>our program today, and I also want to mention that

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<v Speaker 2>I am going to be posting a couple of videos

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<v Speaker 2>that he has recommended that you can see on the

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<v Speaker 2>Facebook page. Go to Facebook, go to Earth Ancients and

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<v Speaker 2>they'll be there. And the other thing I want to

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<v Speaker 2>mention is that we launched a Destiny website about six

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<v Speaker 2>months ago now, and along with that, when you go

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<v Speaker 2>to YouTube, you can actually type in Destiny. Actually, here's

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<v Speaker 2>what you type in the Destiny podcast and you can

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<v Speaker 2>see the guests we have every Wednesday, and I hope

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<v Speaker 2>you do that because a lot of these people are

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<v Speaker 2>showing documents or showing images, in some cases photographs illustrations

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<v Speaker 2>that are in the books that there are high So

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<v Speaker 2>that's very very important. So today's program is Zen and

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<v Speaker 2>the Samurai Sword, and my guest is Anthony Cummins. Hey,

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<v Speaker 2>did you know that artificial intelligence or AI can now

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<v Speaker 2>loved ones. AI can replicate a voice and fool the

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<v Speaker 2>your host of Earth Ancients and destiny. There's an important

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<v Speaker 2>Earth Ancients. That's I n coeo g NI dot com

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<v Speaker 2>Forward slash Earth Ancients. There's a fascination here in the

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<v Speaker 2>United States with the samurai and I'm a big fan

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<v Speaker 2>of it. I've been a fan of it since I

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<v Speaker 2>was a kid, and I studied judo when I was

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<v Speaker 2>in high school. Not so much because of the I

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<v Speaker 2>think I did it because of the exercise, but also

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<v Speaker 2>because of this tradition. But as my guests we'll talk

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<v Speaker 2>about today, samurai are a fascinating subject. We had this

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<v Speaker 2>series on TV, the Samurai Series, that was hugely responded

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<v Speaker 2>to in the tens of millions of people. And it's

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<v Speaker 2>not just the fact that they're cutting up each other

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<v Speaker 2>with swords. It's also the meditative quality. Here. We are

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<v Speaker 2>looking at warriors who are doing calligraphy. They're doing these

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<v Speaker 2>very subtle Zen like meditations and lifestyles and would you

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<v Speaker 2>believe samurai are It's all based on Zen Buddhism, which

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<v Speaker 2>is fascinating. My guest today is Anthony Cummins. He is

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<v Speaker 2>the founder of Historical Ninjustu research Team. He's a prolific writer.

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<v Speaker 2>He's written a fascinating new book called Zen and the

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<v Speaker 2>Samurai Sword. But he's also written the Book of Ninja,

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<v Speaker 2>the Book of Samurai, Zen and Samurai Sword. That's what

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<v Speaker 2>we're that's another Oh, that's the book we're talking about now.

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<v Speaker 2>He is a prolific writer, he's a prolific historian, and

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<v Speaker 2>we're gonna talk to him today about his research which

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<v Speaker 2>is just phenomenal. So Anthony, welcome to Destiny Great to

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<v Speaker 2>have you on the program.

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<v Speaker 1>Thank you very much. I'm very happy to be here.

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<v Speaker 2>I got to ask you, with such a h a

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<v Speaker 2>library of work, what got you into samurai work? Was

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<v Speaker 2>it your own personal journey or is it something that

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<v Speaker 2>triggered your need to know?

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<v Speaker 1>It depends who you asked this one. I was born

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<v Speaker 1>loving the Ninja. That's it. I was born with it.

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<v Speaker 1>The Japanese think I'm a reincarnation of some samurai. They

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<v Speaker 1>felt like you're a reincarnation, Anthony, There's no way. So

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<v Speaker 1>when you were saying you were introducing that, it's actually, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>there's the Book of Samurai, which I did, which is

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<v Speaker 1>a collection of ancient scrolls that we had translating, and

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<v Speaker 1>the new book is zen and the Samurai saw. So yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>they are to you will write, You're correct the first

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<v Speaker 1>time round. They are two separate books. And basically I've

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<v Speaker 1>always I've always loved them. I remember my granddad showing me,

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<v Speaker 1>said what toys do you want cowboys and everything? Or

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<v Speaker 1>do you want ninjas? And I was like, Ninja's without

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<v Speaker 1>a doubt. And I was tiny. So from there I

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<v Speaker 1>studied that I went into the depths that I broke

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<v Speaker 1>that open, which led leads you to samurai, which then

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<v Speaker 1>leads you to like Chinese philosophy. It leads you to Zen, Taoism,

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<v Speaker 1>and Buddhism, all of those things.

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<v Speaker 2>Gotcha? How did the Japanese react to a Caucasian Englishman

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<v Speaker 2>as a interpreter of the sacred Samurai?

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<v Speaker 1>I like all things the Japanese very polite on the surface.

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<v Speaker 1>But I've lived there for like five years in my life.

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<v Speaker 1>I've lived there for a long time. I've been there

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<v Speaker 1>or going there nearly twenty years now, and I've learned

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<v Speaker 1>to realize which one is that's amazing versus oh, I see,

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<v Speaker 1>very well done, that very polite, But no, we don't

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<v Speaker 1>like it. We don't like it. So some of them

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<v Speaker 1>love it, and some of them really don't like it.

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<v Speaker 1>It depends some of them. If they're a bit proud

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<v Speaker 1>of their own stuff and I've found something that maybe

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<v Speaker 1>is a little bit wrong in what they've done, they

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<v Speaker 1>get quite angry. Were some of them are really okay

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<v Speaker 1>about and say, yeah, yeah, this is great, Anthony, tell

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<v Speaker 1>us what you've found? Yeah?

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<v Speaker 2>Interesting. Talk a bit about the history. Now we know

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<v Speaker 2>the samurai come out of the medieval period. Why is

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<v Speaker 2>there such a fascination for people cutting each other up

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<v Speaker 2>ceremoniously in this period of time, you know, I mean

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<v Speaker 2>they're just and it's all based on zen Buddhism. How

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<v Speaker 2>does that work? I mean, you would think zen Buddhism

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<v Speaker 2>would be quiet, more severe, more meditative, more contemplative is

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<v Speaker 2>the word I'm thinking of. And yet here are these

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<v Speaker 2>men dueling and fighting and hacking each other up right.

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<v Speaker 1>There's a couple of things on this. First of all,

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<v Speaker 1>it's the reason we love them is it's the same

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<v Speaker 1>as why we love the nights Templar. We all love

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<v Speaker 1>Night's Templar. Everyone loves Samurai, a warrior who's disciplined, hard focused,

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<v Speaker 1>but he will be a killer as well as speak

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<v Speaker 1>to God, you know, I mean that type of thing.

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<v Speaker 1>And then with Samurai, what you've got to remember is, yes,

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<v Speaker 1>they were Buddhists and they were into all that, but

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<v Speaker 1>they're also there's no real name for it, but there's

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<v Speaker 1>a ten year gap difference. They were adults by the

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<v Speaker 1>time they were thirteen and fourteen, and they were given

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<v Speaker 1>a sword, and then after five years of being fighting killers,

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<v Speaker 1>they're only twenty and they're all drinking alcohol and they're

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<v Speaker 1>allowed to do whatever they want. And you're asking a

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<v Speaker 1>bunch of twenty old lads with weapons to be nice.

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<v Speaker 1>Not going to happen. It's just not going to happen.

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<v Speaker 1>So it's only you know, and a lot of them

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<v Speaker 1>follow this spiritual way. But as I've found in my research,

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<v Speaker 1>our image of the samurai is quite wrong. Yes they

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<v Speaker 1>are disciplined, Yes they are loyal. Yes there are some

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<v Speaker 1>really enlightened people, but they're also they're actually a head

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<v Speaker 1>hunting culture. Their culture is based on taking the heads

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<v Speaker 1>of their enemies.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh my god, there's something holistic anenteronyed about this that

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<v Speaker 2>is very interesting. And when I say holistic, they were

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<v Speaker 2>a true samurai samurai, said Graphy. They studied how to

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<v Speaker 2>be one with nature. They were into meditation. For me,

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<v Speaker 2>who's meditated for thirty years, immediately to take a samurai

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<v Speaker 2>sword and go in the war, it's kind of like

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<v Speaker 2>dual opposites.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, yeah, it's not actively if, because the number one

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<v Speaker 1>thing a samurai has to do is serve his master.

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<v Speaker 1>And they are knights, they are warriors. So what they

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<v Speaker 1>do is they use them Buddhism to achieve that warfare.

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<v Speaker 1>It's not that they're all studying Buddhism and then they

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<v Speaker 1>try and find a reason to fight. There are power grabs,

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<v Speaker 1>land grabs, big, you know, almost nations going together. So

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<v Speaker 1>the Samurai have to face that. They have to go

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<v Speaker 1>how do we face that. First of all, Buddhism gives

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<v Speaker 1>you reincarnation, so straight away you're reincarnated and you can

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<v Speaker 1>come back. And someone famous samurai where they him and

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<v Speaker 1>his brother killed themselves and said they wanted to be

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<v Speaker 1>reincarnated seven times to the same plan so they could

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<v Speaker 1>serve again. But actually Samurai afterlife is a bit confusing,

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<v Speaker 1>it does. Nobody asked this question, right. They believe in Shinto,

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<v Speaker 1>they believe in Buddhism, and they believe in Taoism, and

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<v Speaker 1>also they follow Confucianism, but that's not that's not a

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<v Speaker 1>religion per se. So according to Buddhism they're gonna be reincounterated.

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<v Speaker 1>According to Daoism, they're going to break into cheat and

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<v Speaker 1>move into the universe, and according and Shinto, they're going

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<v Speaker 1>to become a goddess from the ancient times. But nobody

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<v Speaker 1>ever points out that you can't do all three. But

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<v Speaker 1>they do know. You obviously find a very positive tonality

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<v Speaker 1>to this, and I say tone because there's this book

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<v Speaker 1>with one hundred different lessons. Is the highlights the good parts?

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<v Speaker 1>But I mean, did you write this book because you

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<v Speaker 1>feel that the Samurai way of life has positive aspects

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<v Speaker 1>that we need to keep an eye on. Or is

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<v Speaker 1>it more that you're looking at our current way of

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<v Speaker 1>living in and seeing the problems of our society and saying, look,

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<v Speaker 1>you should trick this out as a way to improve yourself,

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<v Speaker 1>or what's what's the motivation behind the book? Right? So,

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<v Speaker 1>I've got a couple of layers here. One of them

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<v Speaker 1>is to give everybody, because I'm I consider myself a historian,

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<v Speaker 1>historical researcher, I want to give everyone a real picture

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<v Speaker 1>of what the Samurai were like. We no longer believe

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<v Speaker 1>that Night's war shining armor and they rescue dambles in

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<v Speaker 1>distress and they fought dragons. We know how realistic it was,

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<v Speaker 1>and I need to do the same for the Samurai.

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<v Speaker 1>But inside of all that, inside of that pressure pot

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<v Speaker 1>of like warfare, there are some really really good lessons.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, we can pull them out. We don't want

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<v Speaker 1>to take the warfare with us, but we can take

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<v Speaker 1>what that forged into the into our lives. So, for example,

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<v Speaker 1>the Japanese today, their society is amazing. Aans run perfectly.

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<v Speaker 1>They they're they're one of the most populated place on

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<v Speaker 1>the planet, yet the lowest crime rate. Yeah. They I

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<v Speaker 1>dropped my phone in on the train and I had

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<v Speaker 1>no worries. It was never stolen. I just got on

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<v Speaker 1>the train back, went to the the lost and found

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<v Speaker 1>somebody give it in. And I've got one story I

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<v Speaker 1>always tell. Some Japanese thieves stole a friend of mine's

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<v Speaker 1>wallet and it had concert tickets in. So even the

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<v Speaker 1>thief in Japan, the lowest of the low, went back

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<v Speaker 1>and gave them their concert tickets back, so they didn't

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<v Speaker 1>miss their concert. They post because they had their addrestin it.

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<v Speaker 1>They said, we're very sorry, please go to your concert.

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<v Speaker 1>We've kept the wallet it because we're thieves. But here

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<v Speaker 1>you go. So you know, but where did that come from?

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<v Speaker 1>Because if you go to Japanese history, it's full of warfare.

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<v Speaker 1>After that forging and then bringing this together, they they

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<v Speaker 1>created a society that is based on these fundamentals. So

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<v Speaker 1>why can't we why can't we do that? Why can't

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<v Speaker 1>the West do that? So you admire that I do.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't think it's perfect by any means. They have

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<v Speaker 1>one of the highest suicide rates or did do. And

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<v Speaker 1>they had really a really strong culture of overworking people

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<v Speaker 1>too much. Yeah, they had really bad but beyond that,

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<v Speaker 1>beyond those problems, Oh my, you can't believe how easy

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<v Speaker 1>Japan is to live in. I mean, safe, clean, happy,

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<v Speaker 1>and they really do pursue doing something beautiful. Like you

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<v Speaker 1>would walk through the streets and people were just there

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<v Speaker 1>was somebody playing violin in there, somebody else was breakdancing,

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<v Speaker 1>somebody else was doing painting, somebody was drumming. Nobody bothered them.

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<v Speaker 1>Everybody paid attention, people clapped, chatted to them about it,

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<v Speaker 1>and they took the time out of the day to

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<v Speaker 1>enjoy the arts. That is why the Japanese do well.

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<v Speaker 2>So talking a little bit about the swordsmanship, which is

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<v Speaker 2>huge obviously, because you're training at a young age as

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<v Speaker 2>a samurai. You don't become a samurai, you're training in

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<v Speaker 2>at some point you're anointed as samurai is and how

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<v Speaker 2>it works, no.

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<v Speaker 1>It's the opposite. So that's the way nights work. You're

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<v Speaker 1>anointed as a night, later on are born samurai. In

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<v Speaker 1>the class system, However, you can achieve samurai status by

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<v Speaker 1>being a good warrior on the battlefield, so it's actually twofold.

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<v Speaker 1>You can be brought into that society, but you're also

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<v Speaker 1>born into that society.

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<v Speaker 2>Talk about the rise of samurai.

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<v Speaker 1>How does this?

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, was it zen Buddhism before samurai and then

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<v Speaker 2>somebody developed a sense of the feudal warlord and then

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<v Speaker 2>his minions who are the samurai? Talk about the fundamentals

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<v Speaker 2>of it? How does it work?

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<v Speaker 1>You've actually hit on a really good point here, right, Cliff.

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<v Speaker 1>Loads of people missed this point. Is so originally Japan

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<v Speaker 1>before the samurai. Looking about the year five hundred AD,

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<v Speaker 1>when the Romans are just collapsing. Yeah, they're just collapsing,

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<v Speaker 1>and they have some service. The court is run by

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<v Speaker 1>the nobles, and the nobles run their armies and they

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<v Speaker 1>have like a Chinese standing army system. And then there's

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<v Speaker 1>no Buddhism, no Buddhism, just shinto the land of the gods.

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<v Speaker 1>So years ago, no one, five hundred roughly, yeah, right, yeah, okay,

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<v Speaker 1>and then then what happens is now you've got to

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<v Speaker 1>remember this. Another thing people don't remember is it's Indian

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<v Speaker 1>Japanese culture is based on Indian tradition, right, Buddhism comes

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<v Speaker 1>from India. Yeah, it is absolutely Indian, and it goes

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<v Speaker 1>through China. It picks up Daoism along the way, and

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<v Speaker 1>then it drops into Japan about the year five hundred

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<v Speaker 1>just after, and they start debating which is best Shinto Buddhism.

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<v Speaker 1>And those people who are serving in the imperial court

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<v Speaker 1>are called servants samurai. They're actually mean servant, and the

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<v Speaker 1>warriors are called bushi, which is warrior, fighting man, which

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<v Speaker 1>means military gentlemen. But over five hundred years them servants

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<v Speaker 1>suddenly take on more and more aggressive roles and start

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<v Speaker 1>helping with fighting and things like that, and eventually servants

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<v Speaker 1>the samurai become the warriors, and bushi and samurai mix together,

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<v Speaker 1>and over that five hundred years they start to develop Zen. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>they actually develop Buddhism mainly. Now you've got to remember

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<v Speaker 1>Zen is part of Buddhism. But Buddhism is about the

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<v Speaker 1>four basically the four noble truths. But you know, we're

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<v Speaker 1>all going to we're all insuffering. We have to leave

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<v Speaker 1>the Samsara, which is the cycle of life and death,

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<v Speaker 1>and we should follow perfect lives to get there and

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<v Speaker 1>like the Buddha will become enlightened. And the one way

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<v Speaker 1>we do this is Buddha was sat under the tree

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<v Speaker 1>and he enlightened himself by through meditation. That's how it is.

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<v Speaker 1>And he had a great realization. And that is what

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<v Speaker 1>the Samurai did. And they, you know, they didn't invent

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<v Speaker 1>zen because it was clearly the budder who invented zen.

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<v Speaker 1>And he knocks it down the patriarchal line or the patriarchs,

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<v Speaker 1>and they just try to replicate that. And they have

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<v Speaker 1>something called satory, which is you know, revelation. They have revelation,

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<v Speaker 1>and the idea is that hopefully you can mix it

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<v Speaker 1>with your swordmanship and in the middle of a battle

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<v Speaker 1>you can. Actually I'm going to spin off it. Have

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<v Speaker 1>you seen the new film F one with Brad Pitt

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<v Speaker 1>F one?

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<v Speaker 2>Oh it's the racer Car. Yeah, yeah, I heard. It's

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<v Speaker 2>pretty good.

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<v Speaker 1>It's the best example of zen. I've ever seen, the

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<v Speaker 1>best example of zen. And in high combat or high danger,

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00:19:10.119 --> 00:19:12.960
<v Speaker 1>he says, you know, he's chasing this one lap that

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00:19:13.000 --> 00:19:15.720
<v Speaker 1>he can do. He says, it's loud, it's noisy, racing

302
00:19:15.759 --> 00:19:17.519
<v Speaker 1>casa good. But he said, if I can hit that

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00:19:17.640 --> 00:19:21.480
<v Speaker 1>perfect lap. Everything goes quiet and I float. Even though

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00:19:21.480 --> 00:19:23.799
<v Speaker 1>he's going two hundred and fifty miles an hour, he's

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00:19:23.839 --> 00:19:26.920
<v Speaker 1>turning corners one hundred miles an hour and he's crashed.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, they might be crashing, he said. He just

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00:19:28.480 --> 00:19:31.119
<v Speaker 1>floats and it's silent and I can do everything. That

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00:19:31.319 --> 00:19:33.920
<v Speaker 1>is where you need to be with zen, which is

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<v Speaker 1>called mushin, which is no mind, and it's always translated

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00:19:37.240 --> 00:19:41.039
<v Speaker 1>incorrectly means no and mind is your mind. And he

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00:19:41.079 --> 00:19:43.000
<v Speaker 1>doesn't mean to have no mind to be mindless, or

312
00:19:43.440 --> 00:19:46.200
<v Speaker 1>is that it means to be absent of what trying

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<v Speaker 1>thinking what to do. It's pure subconscious at the forefront

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<v Speaker 1>of your mind. And that's what meditators try to achieve,

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<v Speaker 1>is getting rid of that talking monkey mind and just

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00:19:57.759 --> 00:19:59.960
<v Speaker 1>your flatline into perfect stillness.

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<v Speaker 2>Who are some of the contributors early on to the

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<v Speaker 2>whole samurai movement. Is there philosophers that are writing in

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<v Speaker 2>Japan at the time that are building this consciousness of

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<v Speaker 2>that becomes the.

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<v Speaker 1>Samurai Basically, No, Mainly it's the religion is coming from

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<v Speaker 1>the monks, so the monks are doing it, and the

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<v Speaker 1>Samurai are considered lesser at this than the monks. So

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<v Speaker 1>the warriors realize, oh, you know, we can't just be

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<v Speaker 1>brutal thugs all the time. We've got to try and

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00:20:32.000 --> 00:20:34.559
<v Speaker 1>you know, enter and try to you know, make ourselves

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<v Speaker 1>a bit more sophisticated. So they and of course there's

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<v Speaker 1>that element of so monks in Japan were the most

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<v Speaker 1>literate people. They wrote the most, they knew the most

330
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<v Speaker 1>Chinese characters, so samurai would really try to emulate that

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<v Speaker 1>because it was a really like speaking, you know, posh levels.

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<v Speaker 1>And then of course they wanted to. Some people genuinely

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<v Speaker 1>want to search for their soul and what they're trying

334
00:20:56.960 --> 00:20:59.720
<v Speaker 1>to achieve, so they go in to find that. And yes,

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<v Speaker 1>at the beginning that you do find selection of individuals

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<v Speaker 1>who really push Zen forward. Some people go against it

337
00:21:06.200 --> 00:21:08.079
<v Speaker 1>and say, no, I'm gonna stick with Dowism, I'm gonna

338
00:21:08.079 --> 00:21:11.319
<v Speaker 1>stick with Shinto or I don't believe that version. But

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<v Speaker 1>for some reason, around the year thirteen hundred, in a

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00:21:15.119 --> 00:21:18.400
<v Speaker 1>place called Kamakura, which was the military government, Zen just

341
00:21:18.440 --> 00:21:21.880
<v Speaker 1>takes over and the samurai love it. The samurai love it,

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00:21:22.279 --> 00:21:24.160
<v Speaker 1>whereas the monks, a lot of the monks tended to

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<v Speaker 1>go with all of the esoteric magic, breathing, yoga, you know,

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00:21:28.359 --> 00:21:32.240
<v Speaker 1>really trying to push their mental states. Zen just fitted

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<v Speaker 1>the samurai perfectly because they it was about stillness and

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<v Speaker 1>staying still inside of.

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<v Speaker 2>Fascinating that that Zen would be the fundamentals of the

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<v Speaker 2>samurai culture because it seems opposite to me, but maybe

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<v Speaker 2>you're saying that they're grasping onto it because they want

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<v Speaker 2>to be these pure warriors.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, they need to find stillness. Yeah, yeah, they

352
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<v Speaker 1>need to find stillness. They need to find that because

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<v Speaker 1>this is the problem with zen. People who try zen

354
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<v Speaker 1>really try to find that stillness in meditation, but Zen

355
00:22:07.119 --> 00:22:10.119
<v Speaker 1>is actually not for that. That is a byproduct. The

356
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<v Speaker 1>point of Zen is to leave samsara, the cycle of

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<v Speaker 1>life and death. You're meant to stop reincarnation and go

358
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<v Speaker 1>to nirvana. That's the point of Zen, and that's what

359
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<v Speaker 1>the monks are trying to do. But the samurai like, well,

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<v Speaker 1>I don't want to leave Samsara. I don't want to

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<v Speaker 1>leave the cycle of life and death and existence. I

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<v Speaker 1>want to stay with my Lord. Now, if I may

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<v Speaker 1>let me explain it, you know, to your audience, can

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<v Speaker 1>I do that? Yeah? So, sam Sarah is an Indian

365
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<v Speaker 1>word Basically, it's a Buddhist term and it means no

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<v Speaker 1>matter what you do. You can shoot yourself, you can

367
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<v Speaker 1>do it, hang yourself, you can dine in a car crash.

368
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<v Speaker 1>You'll be back tomorrow born as a baby. That's it.

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<v Speaker 1>You'll be back, and you've got some lessons to learn.

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<v Speaker 1>And the Buddha is one of many who have come

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<v Speaker 1>before him, but he's the last one to do it,

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<v Speaker 1>who saw the great realization. And that means that a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of people speak about this, but what it means

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<v Speaker 1>is he genuinely had a supernatural experience. He saw through reality.

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<v Speaker 1>He saw that it was just the atoms and it

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<v Speaker 1>was just however you want to call it, string theory

377
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<v Speaker 1>or whatever we want, we would use. He saw it,

378
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<v Speaker 1>and he said, I've seen all my past lives. I

379
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<v Speaker 1>know the lives of the future of everyone. We are

380
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<v Speaker 1>not always going to be here. You will end up

381
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<v Speaker 1>going to a place called nirvana. It's not a place,

382
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<v Speaker 1>but it means extinguishing. It means you will never come

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<v Speaker 1>back again. And once he died, he never came back again.

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<v Speaker 1>That was it. He has gone to somewhere else. Now

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<v Speaker 1>we have to use three dimensional terms like somewhere else

386
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<v Speaker 1>sometime else. We don't know that. That's because we're inside

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<v Speaker 1>the universe. We cannot get outside of three dimensions in

388
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<v Speaker 1>our vocabulary. So as far as we're concerned, it's something

389
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<v Speaker 1>else that is not this. And it might take you

390
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<v Speaker 1>a million times. You could be you know, nobody knows

391
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<v Speaker 1>how many times it'll take you. But you'll be an ant,

392
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<v Speaker 1>You'll be a fly, a mosquito, you'll burn, you'll be

393
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<v Speaker 1>a son in the worm, a worm in the sun,

394
00:23:59.599 --> 00:24:03.039
<v Speaker 1>and sickly. You'll play out karma until you get it correct.

395
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<v Speaker 1>And then eventually you will become so enlightened within yourself

396
00:24:07.359 --> 00:24:10.000
<v Speaker 1>that you won't want to fight, you won't want anything.

397
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<v Speaker 1>You won't mind if somebody kills you, because you know

398
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<v Speaker 1>you'll be back again tomorrow to start all over again.

399
00:24:14.200 --> 00:24:17.559
<v Speaker 1>It doesn't matter. And eventually you'll sit under that tree

400
00:24:17.640 --> 00:24:19.759
<v Speaker 1>or sit in a chair and have that realization of

401
00:24:19.799 --> 00:24:21.880
<v Speaker 1>be the Buddha and you'll never come back again.

402
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<v Speaker 2>That's so amazing. I can see the the Harry Carey

403
00:24:25.519 --> 00:24:29.440
<v Speaker 2>kind of mentality. If you commit suicide, it doesn't matter

404
00:24:29.480 --> 00:24:33.079
<v Speaker 2>because you'll reincarnate in another So so is that why

405
00:24:33.079 --> 00:24:34.920
<v Speaker 2>they were I mean, I don't know if the portrayal

406
00:24:34.960 --> 00:24:37.119
<v Speaker 2>we see on TV and in the movies is the right

407
00:24:37.160 --> 00:24:42.400
<v Speaker 2>one where we're so willing to die, you know. So yeah,

408
00:24:42.400 --> 00:24:44.599
<v Speaker 2>well this is the yes and no.

409
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<v Speaker 1>So right. It's called seppuku. But it's had a kiddy,

410
00:24:48.039 --> 00:24:51.880
<v Speaker 1>but everyone in the West has haddie carry my grand carry. Yeah,

411
00:24:52.079 --> 00:24:54.359
<v Speaker 1>it had a kitty, but it's because you know, my

412
00:24:54.359 --> 00:24:57.480
<v Speaker 1>granddad's and everyone was in the wall with ah. You know.

413
00:24:57.880 --> 00:25:01.519
<v Speaker 1>So it's professional name is separaku. It's lower class name

414
00:25:01.640 --> 00:25:05.680
<v Speaker 1>is harak kitty, which means harah belly kitty, cut, cut

415
00:25:05.680 --> 00:25:09.599
<v Speaker 1>your belly. And there's two basic divisions of it. One

416
00:25:09.599 --> 00:25:12.920
<v Speaker 1>of them is you decide to do it yourself because

417
00:25:13.160 --> 00:25:16.240
<v Speaker 1>that's your mentality, or the other one is you're forced

418
00:25:16.319 --> 00:25:19.079
<v Speaker 1>to do it to save your family because you've done

419
00:25:19.079 --> 00:25:21.960
<v Speaker 1>something wrong. And the Lord can say, right, everyone in

420
00:25:22.000 --> 00:25:23.680
<v Speaker 1>your family is killed and I will take your land,

421
00:25:24.000 --> 00:25:27.359
<v Speaker 1>or you can commit harak kiddy. Now you know, by

422
00:25:27.400 --> 00:25:30.200
<v Speaker 1>the morrow, you've got that choice. So everyone dies or

423
00:25:30.279 --> 00:25:33.319
<v Speaker 1>you die. So a lot of samurai will sit there,

424
00:25:33.359 --> 00:25:35.240
<v Speaker 1>and this is where the zen comes in. They have

425
00:25:35.319 --> 00:25:38.680
<v Speaker 1>to sit there and face it without flickering and without

426
00:25:38.680 --> 00:25:41.240
<v Speaker 1>showing pain, and they have to be you know, and

427
00:25:41.359 --> 00:25:43.599
<v Speaker 1>cut up in their belly. And the more cut you do,

428
00:25:43.680 --> 00:25:46.839
<v Speaker 1>and the more dramatic is the better it is. There

429
00:25:46.960 --> 00:25:50.519
<v Speaker 1>is examples of samurai in the early days who were

430
00:25:50.599 --> 00:25:53.000
<v Speaker 1>charging on horse and who were running away from the

431
00:25:53.079 --> 00:25:55.599
<v Speaker 1>enemies or whatever, and they just got their swords, jumped

432
00:25:55.599 --> 00:25:58.240
<v Speaker 1>off their horse and landed head first to kill themselves.

433
00:25:58.599 --> 00:26:01.799
<v Speaker 1>That was the origins of haak. What's the origins of it?

434
00:26:02.079 --> 00:26:03.720
<v Speaker 1>But in the end you've got to do it. And

435
00:26:03.759 --> 00:26:06.559
<v Speaker 1>there are Western accounts, There are plenty of accounts of

436
00:26:06.720 --> 00:26:10.319
<v Speaker 1>samurai who absolutely did it with a stoic, stoic face.

437
00:26:10.359 --> 00:26:13.119
<v Speaker 1>They were like, you know. There's even one account of

438
00:26:13.160 --> 00:26:16.000
<v Speaker 1>some French soldiers in the eighteen hundreds watching one and

439
00:26:16.119 --> 00:26:18.799
<v Speaker 1>this Japanese person hated the foreigners coming in. They said,

440
00:26:18.799 --> 00:26:21.359
<v Speaker 1>this is bad, We've got too many immigrants. And they

441
00:26:21.400 --> 00:26:25.200
<v Speaker 1>basically said, so he was singing war songs and then

442
00:26:25.240 --> 00:26:28.039
<v Speaker 1>cut his own throat out as he did it. You know,

443
00:26:28.119 --> 00:26:31.000
<v Speaker 1>you're like, they've put it, but you know, so then

444
00:26:31.119 --> 00:26:33.640
<v Speaker 1>becomes the question, Cliff, is that indoctrination or is that

445
00:26:33.680 --> 00:26:37.640
<v Speaker 1>self realization? That's the question. Have you got to a

446
00:26:37.680 --> 00:26:40.680
<v Speaker 1>point where you're so zen that it doesn't matter you

447
00:26:40.680 --> 00:26:44.200
<v Speaker 1>were like yes, I believe it, or like say a

448
00:26:44.240 --> 00:26:47.039
<v Speaker 1>suicidal terrorist, you're indoctrinated to a point where you will

449
00:26:47.079 --> 00:26:50.920
<v Speaker 1>kill yourself. Nobody, you know, only God knows that answer

450
00:26:51.000 --> 00:26:54.640
<v Speaker 1>in your mind, only you know, only the universe knows.

451
00:26:58.000 --> 00:26:59.880
<v Speaker 2>We're going to take a short break to allow our

452
00:27:00.079 --> 00:27:04.279
<v Speaker 2>sponsors to identify themselves and will and we will return

453
00:27:04.319 --> 00:27:09.119
<v Speaker 2>shortly with my guest today, Anthony Cummins, discussing his latest release,

454
00:27:10.000 --> 00:27:15.920
<v Speaker 2>Zin and the Samurai Sword. We'll be right back with you.

455
00:27:58.920 --> 00:28:00.839
<v Speaker 2>My guest today is Antony and he comes. He has

456
00:28:00.880 --> 00:28:04.039
<v Speaker 2>written a new book called Zin in the Samurai Sword.

457
00:28:04.720 --> 00:28:08.960
<v Speaker 2>This is a look at samurai consciousness, what Japan was

458
00:28:09.119 --> 00:28:12.640
<v Speaker 2>like during the medieval periods of the fifteen hundreds, and

459
00:28:12.799 --> 00:28:22.799
<v Speaker 2>why there's such an interest in samurai philosophy. But it

460
00:28:22.880 --> 00:28:25.559
<v Speaker 2>comes back to the reincarnation question. It's like they know

461
00:28:25.960 --> 00:28:28.880
<v Speaker 2>they come back at some point, so you're willing to

462
00:28:28.960 --> 00:28:31.480
<v Speaker 2>take their life. Isn't that really the foundation?

463
00:28:32.720 --> 00:28:34.960
<v Speaker 1>Yeah? Absolutely, that's that's one hundred percent there and a

464
00:28:34.960 --> 00:28:37.000
<v Speaker 1>lot of monks. You must have seen the famous Rage

465
00:28:37.000 --> 00:28:39.079
<v Speaker 1>against the Machine album cover where the monk's covered in

466
00:28:39.079 --> 00:28:41.319
<v Speaker 1>petrol and he's burning, and then he did that in

467
00:28:41.359 --> 00:28:43.200
<v Speaker 1>the fifties, I think during.

468
00:28:43.039 --> 00:28:45.960
<v Speaker 2>The Vietnam War. It's a very famous scene.

469
00:28:46.279 --> 00:28:50.200
<v Speaker 1>Yet that scene, and that's exactly it, because he's coming back.

470
00:28:50.240 --> 00:28:52.559
<v Speaker 1>He's a puttish monk. He knows he's coming back. He's like,

471
00:28:52.759 --> 00:28:54.279
<v Speaker 1>I am going to tell the world. I'm going to

472
00:28:54.319 --> 00:28:56.119
<v Speaker 1>create this picture and I'm going to tell the world

473
00:28:56.160 --> 00:28:57.720
<v Speaker 1>he's wrong, and I will do it. I'll just come

474
00:28:57.759 --> 00:28:58.640
<v Speaker 1>back to again and do it again.

475
00:28:59.119 --> 00:28:59.400
<v Speaker 2>Wow.

476
00:28:59.519 --> 00:29:02.599
<v Speaker 1>So aly problem is not His problem is pain. So

477
00:29:02.720 --> 00:29:06.319
<v Speaker 1>then anybody really really believes in reincarnation has the problem

478
00:29:06.359 --> 00:29:08.519
<v Speaker 1>of loss and pain. Do I know I'm going to

479
00:29:08.599 --> 00:29:11.119
<v Speaker 1>be reincarnated, but I lose all my friends, I lose

480
00:29:11.119 --> 00:29:13.640
<v Speaker 1>my family, I will never see these people again, and

481
00:29:13.680 --> 00:29:16.160
<v Speaker 1>I'm gonna go through some serious pain. So that's your

482
00:29:16.359 --> 00:29:18.680
<v Speaker 1>that's your barrier. But if you believe you're coming back,

483
00:29:19.119 --> 00:29:20.680
<v Speaker 1>if you can get past them barriers, you're okay.

484
00:29:20.759 --> 00:29:23.799
<v Speaker 2>It's amazing. Yeah, I mean the mind over the body

485
00:29:23.839 --> 00:29:27.359
<v Speaker 2>and the pain that that you're suffering. I want to

486
00:29:27.359 --> 00:29:30.559
<v Speaker 2>talk about martial arts because I mentioned Judo in the

487
00:29:30.640 --> 00:29:39.359
<v Speaker 2>very beginning. Is the Samurai lifestyle considered a martial art.

488
00:29:38.400 --> 00:29:42.160
<v Speaker 1>And they stood they have to study the martial arts

489
00:29:42.200 --> 00:29:45.839
<v Speaker 1>to prepare for war. That is what they do. The

490
00:29:46.240 --> 00:29:49.119
<v Speaker 1>lord at the top of the klan has his retainers.

491
00:29:49.119 --> 00:29:51.519
<v Speaker 1>It's a medieval system he has he owns the land

492
00:29:51.960 --> 00:29:54.119
<v Speaker 1>and they take the rise from the land and they

493
00:29:54.799 --> 00:29:57.079
<v Speaker 1>that provides them with weapons when they sell it. And

494
00:29:57.079 --> 00:30:01.039
<v Speaker 1>that's how it works. And yes they have to and

495
00:30:01.119 --> 00:30:04.400
<v Speaker 1>they what they did is integrate their Buddhist zen with

496
00:30:04.519 --> 00:30:07.319
<v Speaker 1>their martial arts. That's what happened as time went on.

497
00:30:07.400 --> 00:30:09.599
<v Speaker 1>They did that and it is one percent their lifestyle.

498
00:30:09.799 --> 00:30:12.559
<v Speaker 1>They get up, they train. The best way you could

499
00:30:12.599 --> 00:30:15.720
<v Speaker 1>understand it is if the American military, instead of going

500
00:30:15.720 --> 00:30:18.839
<v Speaker 1>to a base, you woke up and all your family

501
00:30:18.839 --> 00:30:21.759
<v Speaker 1>were in the military and you trained every day and

502
00:30:21.799 --> 00:30:23.160
<v Speaker 1>then a war comes.

503
00:30:23.480 --> 00:30:26.960
<v Speaker 2>So the family was an integral part of their samurais yes, yeah,

504
00:30:27.000 --> 00:30:27.920
<v Speaker 2>you training.

505
00:30:27.680 --> 00:30:30.759
<v Speaker 1>One yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, one hundred ten.

506
00:30:31.440 --> 00:30:34.599
<v Speaker 1>So this is there's a dividing line in the Samurai.

507
00:30:34.680 --> 00:30:37.359
<v Speaker 1>There's a divide in line. There's before the year sixteen

508
00:30:37.440 --> 00:30:39.960
<v Speaker 1>hundred and there's after the year sixteen hundred. That's a

509
00:30:39.960 --> 00:30:44.480
<v Speaker 1>broad divide, but it's true. Before that year, most people

510
00:30:44.559 --> 00:30:46.839
<v Speaker 1>lived in the mountains, they lived in the fields, and

511
00:30:46.880 --> 00:30:49.480
<v Speaker 1>they owned a village. You must have seen shogun. Remember

512
00:30:49.559 --> 00:30:50.640
<v Speaker 1>nineteen eighties shogun.

513
00:30:50.759 --> 00:30:52.799
<v Speaker 2>Oh, yeah, with Richard Chamberlain.

514
00:30:53.559 --> 00:30:56.119
<v Speaker 1>Chamberlain, Yeah, you died recently, didn't Yes. So in that

515
00:30:56.240 --> 00:30:58.319
<v Speaker 1>when he arrives, he arrives in a village, and the

516
00:30:58.319 --> 00:31:01.240
<v Speaker 1>head samurai of the village, who who owns the village,

517
00:31:01.400 --> 00:31:04.799
<v Speaker 1>him and his families, his local family. They then send

518
00:31:04.880 --> 00:31:07.279
<v Speaker 1>wessage to the lords say should we bring him. That's

519
00:31:07.319 --> 00:31:09.680
<v Speaker 1>exactly how they used to live. Every village had their

520
00:31:09.680 --> 00:31:14.160
<v Speaker 1>samurai family looking after it. They were like their agricultural warriors. Yeah.

521
00:31:14.279 --> 00:31:17.000
<v Speaker 1>So they would have their fortified manor house up in

522
00:31:17.079 --> 00:31:20.319
<v Speaker 1>somewhere defendable, and that they have they maybe their extended

523
00:31:20.319 --> 00:31:23.440
<v Speaker 1>family of twenty thirty people training in the martial arts,

524
00:31:24.279 --> 00:31:25.960
<v Speaker 1>and that's what they did, and they did their zen.

525
00:31:26.160 --> 00:31:29.160
<v Speaker 1>They did their training. Granddad would teach me, uncles would

526
00:31:29.160 --> 00:31:33.680
<v Speaker 1>teach me. But what happened is one family, one single family,

527
00:31:33.680 --> 00:31:36.640
<v Speaker 1>took over all Japan, the Tokokawa family, the shogun, the

528
00:31:36.640 --> 00:31:38.920
<v Speaker 1>shogan took over old Japan, and he said, right, stop

529
00:31:38.960 --> 00:31:41.759
<v Speaker 1>living in the countryside because we can't tax you. So

530
00:31:42.079 --> 00:31:44.240
<v Speaker 1>everyone's moved to the city. So they all moved to

531
00:31:44.240 --> 00:31:46.799
<v Speaker 1>the city and they taxed the samurai properly. They and

532
00:31:46.839 --> 00:31:49.559
<v Speaker 1>that's what happened is they made martial arts dojos, and

533
00:31:49.599 --> 00:31:52.599
<v Speaker 1>that's where dojos were really invented, when you just had

534
00:31:52.680 --> 00:31:57.359
<v Speaker 1>loads of samurai in urban settings and they were gambling, drinking, praying,

535
00:31:57.640 --> 00:32:00.400
<v Speaker 1>going to the temple, doing some meditation. And then he

536
00:32:00.440 --> 00:32:02.079
<v Speaker 1>was like, we better to go to the dojo and train.

537
00:32:03.720 --> 00:32:06.799
<v Speaker 2>But I mean, I've never and you must know this.

538
00:32:06.960 --> 00:32:12.039
<v Speaker 2>There must be a martial art for swordsmanship because the

539
00:32:12.079 --> 00:32:14.480
<v Speaker 2>way and of course I don't know, and we're gonna

540
00:32:14.519 --> 00:32:18.519
<v Speaker 2>talk about this in a minute. If these movies portray

541
00:32:19.039 --> 00:32:22.440
<v Speaker 2>the lifestyle correctly. But if you look at some of

542
00:32:22.440 --> 00:32:24.400
<v Speaker 2>the earlier ones, like The Seventh Samurai, who is a

543
00:32:24.480 --> 00:32:27.680
<v Speaker 2>very famous movie that was made, they hold the sword

544
00:32:27.720 --> 00:32:31.640
<v Speaker 2>in such a way just before they begin the attack,

545
00:32:32.400 --> 00:32:37.359
<v Speaker 2>and these positions are all practice and and it's like

546
00:32:37.759 --> 00:32:42.200
<v Speaker 2>one hit and the guy's dead. So that alone, the

547
00:32:42.240 --> 00:32:46.799
<v Speaker 2>samurai technique must be a martial art. Is that correct?

548
00:32:47.319 --> 00:32:50.960
<v Speaker 1>Oh? Absolutely, you have one hundred percent. Yeah, There's there's

549
00:32:51.000 --> 00:32:53.319
<v Speaker 1>a deeper question within that, which is what did they

550
00:32:53.319 --> 00:32:56.640
<v Speaker 1>actually practice? Because what we do know is that what

551
00:32:57.000 --> 00:32:59.279
<v Speaker 1>we don't know, I say, is how they actually fought

552
00:32:59.319 --> 00:33:01.799
<v Speaker 1>before the year sixteen hundred, in the most important time

553
00:33:01.799 --> 00:33:04.400
<v Speaker 1>in the wartime. There is no description of it anywhere.

554
00:33:04.599 --> 00:33:07.920
<v Speaker 1>It doesn't exist. And the earliest description of how samurai

555
00:33:08.000 --> 00:33:09.839
<v Speaker 1>used to fight, and what I mean by that is

556
00:33:09.920 --> 00:33:12.680
<v Speaker 1>left foot forward. Do you know hold your sword like this? Yeah,

557
00:33:12.680 --> 00:33:15.759
<v Speaker 1>he comes from a Chinese text. It's in a Chinese text.

558
00:33:16.000 --> 00:33:19.000
<v Speaker 1>The earliest samurai want is from a Chinese text Bazale,

559
00:33:19.359 --> 00:33:22.319
<v Speaker 1>and then a Korean text after that, and then it's

560
00:33:22.359 --> 00:33:26.480
<v Speaker 1>Miamoto Musashi in sixteen forty and a man called Yagua

561
00:33:26.480 --> 00:33:29.559
<v Speaker 1>because everybody knows Miamoto Musashi, the jew wilding guy, you

562
00:33:29.599 --> 00:33:31.519
<v Speaker 1>know with two swords. Do you know him?

563
00:33:31.920 --> 00:33:32.079
<v Speaker 2>No?

564
00:33:33.440 --> 00:33:35.119
<v Speaker 1>Right, So basically he's one of the most famous if

565
00:33:35.160 --> 00:33:37.279
<v Speaker 1>you sort of do martialists, he's the famous one. But

566
00:33:37.680 --> 00:33:39.680
<v Speaker 1>very few people realize that that's at the end of

567
00:33:39.680 --> 00:33:41.359
<v Speaker 1>the war. In periods he wrote at the very end,

568
00:33:41.480 --> 00:33:45.000
<v Speaker 1>and what he said was what everybody does today has changed.

569
00:33:45.079 --> 00:33:46.920
<v Speaker 1>It's not how it used to fight. So we know

570
00:33:47.079 --> 00:33:49.880
<v Speaker 1>exactly how they fought from the year sixteen hundred to

571
00:33:50.119 --> 00:33:53.640
<v Speaker 1>eighteen hundred, and we know exactly, but that was duels

572
00:33:53.640 --> 00:33:56.759
<v Speaker 1>in the street, street combat, not war. What we don't

573
00:33:56.759 --> 00:33:59.480
<v Speaker 1>know is really how they fought in war. Our archaeology

574
00:33:59.480 --> 00:34:02.599
<v Speaker 1>tells us that mostly they got shot by arrows. Swords

575
00:34:02.599 --> 00:34:05.799
<v Speaker 1>were very low on the killer list. Mostly you would

576
00:34:05.799 --> 00:34:08.480
<v Speaker 1>be shot by arrows or killed by a spear. Talk

577
00:34:08.559 --> 00:34:12.239
<v Speaker 1>about even that. There there's the martial arts for spears,

578
00:34:12.320 --> 00:34:15.400
<v Speaker 1>martial arts for arrows, martial arts. They have a martial

579
00:34:15.480 --> 00:34:16.199
<v Speaker 1>art for everything.

580
00:34:16.559 --> 00:34:20.360
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I've seen these amazingly large bon and arrows.

581
00:34:21.360 --> 00:34:24.280
<v Speaker 2>The bow itself is as tall as a man, and

582
00:34:25.159 --> 00:34:27.239
<v Speaker 2>they were able to shoot from a horse and then

583
00:34:27.239 --> 00:34:29.960
<v Speaker 2>from various positions, and that that looks like a martial

584
00:34:30.039 --> 00:34:36.800
<v Speaker 2>art by itself, But is that considered a Samurai warriors technique?

585
00:34:37.639 --> 00:34:40.000
<v Speaker 1>Is one un a Samurai thing. And not only that,

586
00:34:40.079 --> 00:34:42.440
<v Speaker 1>the bow was more important than the sword. So it

587
00:34:42.519 --> 00:34:45.239
<v Speaker 1>goes in Samurai culture the bow is the most important,

588
00:34:45.519 --> 00:34:48.519
<v Speaker 1>spear is the second most important. Sword is your last backup.

589
00:34:49.079 --> 00:34:52.079
<v Speaker 1>It's one so originally when the Samuri first started, and

590
00:34:52.119 --> 00:34:54.360
<v Speaker 1>all the great samurai and the great walls, that they

591
00:34:54.360 --> 00:34:57.280
<v Speaker 1>were charging up and down like the Mongols, turning backwards

592
00:34:57.280 --> 00:35:00.760
<v Speaker 1>on their bows, holding their reins between of their arm pits,

593
00:35:00.760 --> 00:35:03.320
<v Speaker 1>and shooting. And that's the reason they believe that bowie

594
00:35:03.360 --> 00:35:05.639
<v Speaker 1>is like that where it shot the bottom but really

595
00:35:05.679 --> 00:35:08.079
<v Speaker 1>tall at the top is because they've got to transfer

596
00:35:08.159 --> 00:35:10.679
<v Speaker 1>it across a horse, and they've got to move across

597
00:35:10.679 --> 00:35:12.440
<v Speaker 1>the horse, but they just never change the design of

598
00:35:12.480 --> 00:35:14.320
<v Speaker 1>the boat. I think it's one of the only places

599
00:35:14.320 --> 00:35:15.199
<v Speaker 1>that exists in the world.

600
00:35:15.559 --> 00:35:18.199
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you made an interesting statement just now. You said

601
00:35:18.199 --> 00:35:22.840
<v Speaker 2>that archaeologists have not discovered how they fought. In a

602
00:35:22.920 --> 00:35:26.679
<v Speaker 2>war situation where there's hundreds or perhaps thousands of warriors

603
00:35:27.079 --> 00:35:32.800
<v Speaker 2>going up against each other. It seems kind of rudimentary

604
00:35:33.000 --> 00:35:38.440
<v Speaker 2>for sword wilding people soldiers to be running after each other.

605
00:35:38.880 --> 00:35:41.840
<v Speaker 2>So it would probably be I would think, just as

606
00:35:41.880 --> 00:35:47.119
<v Speaker 2>a logic, it would be a halo of arrows would start,

607
00:35:47.519 --> 00:35:51.719
<v Speaker 2>then the long blades, because we see this ad media Europe,

608
00:35:52.840 --> 00:35:55.559
<v Speaker 2>then the long swords, and then perhaps the very end,

609
00:35:55.599 --> 00:35:58.480
<v Speaker 2>whoever's left is going sword to sword. Does that the

610
00:35:58.519 --> 00:35:59.440
<v Speaker 2>guests work for that?

611
00:35:59.559 --> 00:36:02.280
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, say, that's about as best as we can get.

612
00:36:02.400 --> 00:36:05.079
<v Speaker 1>What we don't know is just exactly how they moved

613
00:36:05.079 --> 00:36:07.840
<v Speaker 1>their swords and what positions. But you are one hundredercent right.

614
00:36:07.880 --> 00:36:10.280
<v Speaker 1>It was spears first and then guns. Of course, Samurai

615
00:36:10.280 --> 00:36:12.400
<v Speaker 1>loved the gun. After a certain year, they loved the

616
00:36:12.440 --> 00:36:15.960
<v Speaker 1>guns and they so the archaeology tells us we've got

617
00:36:16.000 --> 00:36:18.480
<v Speaker 1>so many bullet shots, so many stones, sling shots, you know,

618
00:36:18.760 --> 00:36:21.559
<v Speaker 1>and sword deaths are much much lower. But yeah, no,

619
00:36:21.639 --> 00:36:23.960
<v Speaker 1>it would be absolutely like that. But in the beginning,

620
00:36:24.119 --> 00:36:26.559
<v Speaker 1>say it, between the year one thousand to like one

621
00:36:26.639 --> 00:36:29.639
<v Speaker 1>thy three hundred, Samurai were running up and down on horses.

622
00:36:29.880 --> 00:36:32.760
<v Speaker 1>Then three hundred to six hundred, you start getting more compact.

623
00:36:32.920 --> 00:36:35.599
<v Speaker 1>They're on the battlefield. They now got pikes. So we

624
00:36:35.639 --> 00:36:38.599
<v Speaker 1>always imagine the Greeks with the long pikes and the phalanxes,

625
00:36:38.639 --> 00:36:40.400
<v Speaker 1>but I actually Samurai did it as well. And then

626
00:36:40.440 --> 00:36:43.320
<v Speaker 1>they had musket shots. And then what happened is when

627
00:36:43.360 --> 00:36:45.480
<v Speaker 1>the wars finished, they got rid of all of that

628
00:36:45.719 --> 00:36:49.280
<v Speaker 1>and the sword became the number one weapon. That's when

629
00:36:49.320 --> 00:36:51.239
<v Speaker 1>the sword, and that's why we all see in the

630
00:36:51.280 --> 00:36:53.760
<v Speaker 1>movies a cirricua sour and all this type of stuff.

631
00:36:53.760 --> 00:36:56.760
<v Speaker 1>Seven Samurai. That's why we all imagine the sword as

632
00:36:56.760 --> 00:37:00.360
<v Speaker 1>the greatest thing since slice bread story.

633
00:37:00.400 --> 00:37:02.559
<v Speaker 2>And when you see these movies, do you think that

634
00:37:02.719 --> 00:37:07.800
<v Speaker 2>they are interpreting the samuraised life correctly or is it

635
00:37:08.000 --> 00:37:12.920
<v Speaker 2>enhanced and embellished like Hollywood tends to do.

636
00:37:15.519 --> 00:37:17.679
<v Speaker 1>First of all, I don't mind the embellishment. I don't

637
00:37:17.679 --> 00:37:21.480
<v Speaker 1>mind stereotypes. I like that. But I my friends know

638
00:37:21.639 --> 00:37:23.800
<v Speaker 1>they if they my friends want to annoy me, they

639
00:37:23.840 --> 00:37:25.559
<v Speaker 1>always come up to me and whisper in my ear

640
00:37:25.599 --> 00:37:29.039
<v Speaker 1>and say, I think Last Summurai is a perfect Samurai film.

641
00:37:29.239 --> 00:37:34.599
<v Speaker 1>It's wonderful. Yeah, it really annoys me, that film. It's

642
00:37:34.639 --> 00:37:38.440
<v Speaker 1>the least perfect film. So I wish they would do

643
00:37:38.559 --> 00:37:41.400
<v Speaker 1>a perfect film for Samurai. I really want to be

644
00:37:41.840 --> 00:37:44.719
<v Speaker 1>I've been around now for about twenty years, and the

645
00:37:44.760 --> 00:37:47.480
<v Speaker 1>two things I've never been able to broach is computer

646
00:37:47.599 --> 00:37:50.679
<v Speaker 1>games and a film. I've been on TV. I've done

647
00:37:50.760 --> 00:37:53.679
<v Speaker 1>TV dramas, I've done all this, I've supported, I've never

648
00:37:53.760 --> 00:37:55.920
<v Speaker 1>I would love to get my hands on being the

649
00:37:56.079 --> 00:37:56.360
<v Speaker 1>you know.

650
00:37:56.960 --> 00:38:01.719
<v Speaker 2>Year year perfect candidate for a for a docu drama

651
00:38:01.880 --> 00:38:05.920
<v Speaker 2>or a documentary. You know.

652
00:38:06.039 --> 00:38:08.280
<v Speaker 1>No, No, I have done some documentaries I've done I

653
00:38:08.360 --> 00:38:11.119
<v Speaker 1>recently I have done with Smiths. But what the problem

654
00:38:11.119 --> 00:38:12.920
<v Speaker 1>with that is, And if you don't know, guys, once

655
00:38:12.960 --> 00:38:15.559
<v Speaker 1>you get picked up by television, they've already written the script,

656
00:38:15.960 --> 00:38:18.280
<v Speaker 1>they've already got the action read it. So when I

657
00:38:18.360 --> 00:38:20.280
<v Speaker 1>come along, they go, no, we can't do that today. No,

658
00:38:20.360 --> 00:38:22.880
<v Speaker 1>that's not changing, that's not happening, and they cut what

659
00:38:22.920 --> 00:38:27.119
<v Speaker 1>I say to fit what they want. Basically hmm. Interesting,

660
00:38:27.440 --> 00:38:29.400
<v Speaker 1>And of course I can say things that you know,

661
00:38:29.519 --> 00:38:31.360
<v Speaker 1>that are close to what they want, because but like

662
00:38:31.400 --> 00:38:34.559
<v Speaker 1>you say, sometimes, like Last Samurai, it's not incorrect, it's

663
00:38:34.599 --> 00:38:36.719
<v Speaker 1>just the very disney polished version.

664
00:38:37.760 --> 00:38:41.360
<v Speaker 2>So just give us two examples. I mean, because I

665
00:38:41.679 --> 00:38:43.880
<v Speaker 2>just saw that. I love that movie that they just

666
00:38:44.199 --> 00:38:47.239
<v Speaker 2>came out with, because I like the samurai who's the warlord.

667
00:38:47.639 --> 00:38:49.119
<v Speaker 2>I can't think of his name. He's been in a

668
00:38:49.159 --> 00:38:51.800
<v Speaker 2>lot of movies. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you know who

669
00:38:51.800 --> 00:38:52.480
<v Speaker 2>I'm talking about.

670
00:38:52.960 --> 00:38:56.480
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, the tall gentleman and he's like yeah, he's quite tall,

671
00:38:56.599 --> 00:38:58.039
<v Speaker 1>yeah yeah, and he's the main guy.

672
00:38:58.079 --> 00:39:00.840
<v Speaker 2>And it isn't next to Tom Cruise, yeah yeah, yeah,

673
00:39:00.880 --> 00:39:03.920
<v Speaker 2>yeah no. But I'm just wondering, give us one or

674
00:39:04.000 --> 00:39:07.360
<v Speaker 2>two examples of something that just grates you when you

675
00:39:07.440 --> 00:39:11.480
<v Speaker 2>see the modern version of Sugun. I mean, is it

676
00:39:11.559 --> 00:39:16.039
<v Speaker 2>the samurai itself or is it how they carry themselves

677
00:39:16.039 --> 00:39:17.360
<v Speaker 2>that is upsetting for you.

678
00:39:18.559 --> 00:39:23.360
<v Speaker 1>They tend to be almost like a caricature, like almost

679
00:39:23.480 --> 00:39:25.800
<v Speaker 1>zen all the time, and they stand around and they'd

680
00:39:25.800 --> 00:39:28.599
<v Speaker 1>say perfect statements, and you're like when you read Samurai

681
00:39:28.639 --> 00:39:32.559
<v Speaker 1>documentary Samurai things like there was one samurai who reckoned

682
00:39:32.559 --> 00:39:35.440
<v Speaker 1>it could out eat all samurai of eggs, is said, Ali,

683
00:39:35.599 --> 00:39:37.800
<v Speaker 1>the most eggs out of all of you, let's go.

684
00:39:38.000 --> 00:39:40.239
<v Speaker 1>And they had a competition who could stomach the most

685
00:39:40.239 --> 00:39:43.719
<v Speaker 1>eggs and alcohol and they're all drunk. They're running around,

686
00:39:43.800 --> 00:39:48.840
<v Speaker 1>you know, and they're far more complicated than Hollywood has it.

687
00:39:49.400 --> 00:39:52.559
<v Speaker 1>Yes they have Buddhism, but they've got so many layers, Like,

688
00:39:52.599 --> 00:39:55.760
<v Speaker 1>for example, they have to study military strategies. So first

689
00:39:55.800 --> 00:39:59.159
<v Speaker 1>of all, they're reading ancient classics of sun soup two

690
00:39:59.199 --> 00:40:02.800
<v Speaker 1>thousand year old at the time. Already you're Confucius and

691
00:40:02.800 --> 00:40:06.360
<v Speaker 1>they're talking about they're debating, and they're debating politics. Some

692
00:40:06.400 --> 00:40:09.119
<v Speaker 1>of them try to overthrow the government, like guy folks.

693
00:40:09.440 --> 00:40:11.760
<v Speaker 1>And then in you know, Buddhism, they're talking about how

694
00:40:11.840 --> 00:40:14.599
<v Speaker 1>but you know, the mind can reach another dimension? Or

695
00:40:14.960 --> 00:40:18.239
<v Speaker 1>do monsters exist? And there's all this wonderful stuff to

696
00:40:18.280 --> 00:40:21.719
<v Speaker 1>talk about, and they always just go, cherry blossoms are

697
00:40:21.760 --> 00:40:23.119
<v Speaker 1>beautiful in spring.

698
00:40:23.880 --> 00:40:26.880
<v Speaker 2>It's like that, you know, you want to see more

699
00:40:26.880 --> 00:40:29.679
<v Speaker 2>of the philosophical aspects, is what you're saying.

700
00:40:30.679 --> 00:40:32.800
<v Speaker 1>So I'll give you an example. I'll give you one example.

701
00:40:32.840 --> 00:40:36.000
<v Speaker 1>So there's a well, there's a warlord called Oda Nobunaga. Right,

702
00:40:36.000 --> 00:40:38.039
<v Speaker 1>he's one of the most ruthless men they reckon, you know,

703
00:40:38.800 --> 00:40:39.599
<v Speaker 1>and he has with him.

704
00:40:39.880 --> 00:40:40.079
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

705
00:40:40.800 --> 00:40:44.360
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, he is like like the tyrant. That's his reputation anyway,

706
00:40:44.360 --> 00:40:46.719
<v Speaker 1>it's debatable, but yes, he is the tyrant. And he

707
00:40:46.880 --> 00:40:49.159
<v Speaker 1>has a Buddhist monk with him. Right. They listen to

708
00:40:49.199 --> 00:40:52.760
<v Speaker 1>this a Buddhist monk, and the Christian jesuit joins them

709
00:40:52.880 --> 00:40:55.440
<v Speaker 1>in the fifteen hundreds, and the jesuit is trying to

710
00:40:55.440 --> 00:40:57.760
<v Speaker 1>explain the soul, and the monk is like, there is

711
00:40:57.760 --> 00:41:00.519
<v Speaker 1>no soul. You go on your reincarnated back, but it's

712
00:41:00.519 --> 00:41:01.960
<v Speaker 1>not a soul. It's not it doesn't go to happen

713
00:41:01.960 --> 00:41:05.199
<v Speaker 1>and all that. So the monk says, I'll tell you what,

714
00:41:05.559 --> 00:41:08.280
<v Speaker 1>why don't you show me this soul? And the Christians like, well,

715
00:41:08.280 --> 00:41:10.800
<v Speaker 1>we can't show. It's invisible, and he tries to chop

716
00:41:10.840 --> 00:41:12.599
<v Speaker 1>his head off. He gets a blade and tries to

717
00:41:12.679 --> 00:41:14.840
<v Speaker 1>chop that. Obviously, I'm gonna look inside you for this

718
00:41:14.920 --> 00:41:18.920
<v Speaker 1>imaginary soul. And in the end they are to separate

719
00:41:19.039 --> 00:41:22.519
<v Speaker 1>the monk and the Christian friar from the monk. The

720
00:41:22.559 --> 00:41:25.840
<v Speaker 1>Japanese are trying to murder him. You know what a

721
00:41:25.880 --> 00:41:29.199
<v Speaker 1>great scene in like a film, you know, two religious

722
00:41:29.199 --> 00:41:32.159
<v Speaker 1>people being separated by the warriors because they were being

723
00:41:32.159 --> 00:41:32.760
<v Speaker 1>too violent.

724
00:41:33.559 --> 00:41:38.199
<v Speaker 2>Wow, I want to ask you about the ninja here

725
00:41:38.239 --> 00:41:40.039
<v Speaker 2>in a minute, because you've written a whole book on it,

726
00:41:40.079 --> 00:41:44.639
<v Speaker 2>and there's a tremendous amount of misunderstanding about that whole sect.

727
00:41:45.079 --> 00:41:48.000
<v Speaker 2>Who are some of the well known warlords that go

728
00:41:48.159 --> 00:41:53.519
<v Speaker 2>up against rulers and what is their philosophy that makes

729
00:41:53.519 --> 00:41:54.639
<v Speaker 2>them a warlord?

730
00:41:56.079 --> 00:41:59.480
<v Speaker 1>So right, the way this works is it's hard to

731
00:41:59.519 --> 00:42:02.119
<v Speaker 1>say it land based. So imagine it's like Scotland. I

732
00:42:02.159 --> 00:42:04.000
<v Speaker 1>don't know, I even know anything people more at Scotland.

733
00:42:04.079 --> 00:42:05.960
<v Speaker 1>We always have this image of the scott So what's

734
00:42:06.000 --> 00:42:09.480
<v Speaker 1>the famous blood feuds in America? There's some like really

735
00:42:09.480 --> 00:42:14.079
<v Speaker 1>famous blood feuds of it? Well, well, yeah, well the

736
00:42:14.119 --> 00:42:16.320
<v Speaker 1>Civil War is one, but there was these like plans

737
00:42:16.360 --> 00:42:18.000
<v Speaker 1>that used to go against each other. You know, if

738
00:42:18.000 --> 00:42:21.079
<v Speaker 1>you've got the Okay Corral and stuff like you know families,

739
00:42:21.119 --> 00:42:23.440
<v Speaker 1>you mean they have two families and there's like some

740
00:42:23.480 --> 00:42:27.079
<v Speaker 1>famous ones in America. That's how it starts with samurai.

741
00:42:27.159 --> 00:42:31.559
<v Speaker 1>The Samurai were originally run by the emperor. So what

742
00:42:31.920 --> 00:42:33.920
<v Speaker 1>you have to understand, the emperor has been in existence

743
00:42:33.920 --> 00:42:36.000
<v Speaker 1>for two thousand years and he's still there today. The

744
00:42:36.079 --> 00:42:38.400
<v Speaker 1>same family is still there today, and the Samurai were

745
00:42:38.440 --> 00:42:40.880
<v Speaker 1>only there for a thousand years, so for fifty percent

746
00:42:40.920 --> 00:42:42.679
<v Speaker 1>of the time there was no samurai. They would run

747
00:42:42.719 --> 00:42:45.519
<v Speaker 1>with other you know people. And then what you find is,

748
00:42:46.039 --> 00:42:49.239
<v Speaker 1>bit by bit the aristocracy gets they do too many

749
00:42:49.280 --> 00:42:52.079
<v Speaker 1>tea parties and make up parties. It gets really soft,

750
00:42:52.360 --> 00:42:55.559
<v Speaker 1>and the samurai come along and they're really brutal and hard.

751
00:42:55.599 --> 00:42:57.639
<v Speaker 1>And what happens then is they try to emulate the

752
00:42:57.679 --> 00:43:00.599
<v Speaker 1>nobles by doing tea parties and put makeup and you know,

753
00:43:00.880 --> 00:43:02.880
<v Speaker 1>and then theahbor comes to yourself. So the next set

754
00:43:02.880 --> 00:43:05.480
<v Speaker 1>of samurai family throw them out, and it just keeps

755
00:43:05.480 --> 00:43:08.719
<v Speaker 1>going on this conveyor belt. But what happens is by

756
00:43:08.800 --> 00:43:12.880
<v Speaker 1>the year fifteen fifty to fifteen eighty, you get three

757
00:43:13.000 --> 00:43:17.760
<v Speaker 1>people and these are very famous three people, Oda Nobunaga, Toyotomihideyoshi,

758
00:43:18.079 --> 00:43:22.280
<v Speaker 1>and Tokogawa Iyasu, known as very famously as the Three Unifiers.

759
00:43:22.679 --> 00:43:24.519
<v Speaker 1>And what happens is bit by bit their clans get

760
00:43:24.519 --> 00:43:27.719
<v Speaker 1>bigger and they just absorb all the clans until they

761
00:43:27.760 --> 00:43:31.039
<v Speaker 1>take over all of Japan. And that's and they then

762
00:43:31.360 --> 00:43:33.920
<v Speaker 1>make and I'm gonna say this, and people don't like

763
00:43:33.960 --> 00:43:36.280
<v Speaker 1>it when I say this. What people call it the

764
00:43:36.320 --> 00:43:39.800
<v Speaker 1>period of peace when the shogun owns everything. Actually, it's

765
00:43:39.920 --> 00:43:43.039
<v Speaker 1>very much a dictatorship, and it's like North Korea. It's

766
00:43:43.079 --> 00:43:45.400
<v Speaker 1>like living in North Korea. They can kill you for

767
00:43:45.440 --> 00:43:48.400
<v Speaker 1>no reason. If you steal anything in your the penalty's death.

768
00:43:48.559 --> 00:43:50.920
<v Speaker 1>You can only have a certain haircut, your house has

769
00:43:50.920 --> 00:43:53.679
<v Speaker 1>to be a certain shape, you can't travel without papers.

770
00:43:53.920 --> 00:43:58.599
<v Speaker 1>It's a very very like strict structured society. And it

771
00:43:58.679 --> 00:44:00.840
<v Speaker 1>was only that only collapsed that the end. So do

772
00:44:00.880 --> 00:44:02.880
<v Speaker 1>you remember Last Samurai when they cut the top knots

773
00:44:02.920 --> 00:44:05.960
<v Speaker 1>off the Samurai and it's a very sad scene. Do

774
00:44:05.960 --> 00:44:08.320
<v Speaker 1>you remember It's like they're cutting the hair off them,

775
00:44:08.599 --> 00:44:10.760
<v Speaker 1>and you know the samurai they'd banned the top knots,

776
00:44:11.000 --> 00:44:14.199
<v Speaker 1>And that's put across as really emotional by the director.

777
00:44:14.559 --> 00:44:17.480
<v Speaker 1>Actually it's the other way around. The samurai were the

778
00:44:17.719 --> 00:44:21.559
<v Speaker 1>oppressors and the underclasses were so glad that the Samurai collapsed,

779
00:44:21.679 --> 00:44:23.639
<v Speaker 1>they still cut their top knots off, so that was

780
00:44:23.679 --> 00:44:26.000
<v Speaker 1>their symbol of Samurai yeah, so you know, but they

781
00:44:26.039 --> 00:44:27.840
<v Speaker 1>never show that on samurai films and I was like,

782
00:44:27.880 --> 00:44:30.719
<v Speaker 1>oh no, it was the horrible peasants who did it.

783
00:44:30.760 --> 00:44:33.920
<v Speaker 2>Is there a one warlord that's most noted for taking

784
00:44:33.960 --> 00:44:42.119
<v Speaker 2>down an emperor and becoming like the dominant ruler of

785
00:44:42.159 --> 00:44:43.239
<v Speaker 2>the entire country.

786
00:44:43.440 --> 00:44:47.880
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, basically that is definitely older Nobernaga. So what we

787
00:44:47.960 --> 00:44:50.159
<v Speaker 1>have to understand here is there's three positions. This gets

788
00:44:50.159 --> 00:44:53.320
<v Speaker 1>a bit historical. But the emperor can't you can't get

789
00:44:53.400 --> 00:44:55.159
<v Speaker 1>rid of him. You can kill him, but it doesn't

790
00:44:55.199 --> 00:44:58.760
<v Speaker 1>matter because whoever's next in line is that you can't

791
00:44:58.880 --> 00:45:01.639
<v Speaker 1>take his blood. He is the emperor by divine right.

792
00:45:01.760 --> 00:45:04.119
<v Speaker 1>Nobody can take that. So what they tended to do

793
00:45:04.199 --> 00:45:07.119
<v Speaker 1>was marry their children into the bloodline. Then you get

794
00:45:07.119 --> 00:45:10.079
<v Speaker 1>the shogun. Yeah, so the shogun is actually a general.

795
00:45:10.079 --> 00:45:12.400
<v Speaker 1>It's just so for example, who is you know, like

796
00:45:12.480 --> 00:45:16.679
<v Speaker 1>McCarthy from World War Two. Yeah, so you've got my

797
00:45:16.800 --> 00:45:18.880
<v Speaker 1>Oh no, no, let's do it in English because he's in English.

798
00:45:18.960 --> 00:45:21.320
<v Speaker 1>You've got the queen. Yeah, who's the emperor, and you've

799
00:45:21.360 --> 00:45:23.960
<v Speaker 1>got Churchill, who's the shogun? The general and if he

800
00:45:24.039 --> 00:45:26.599
<v Speaker 1>takes over the whole country, the Queen's got no power, right,

801
00:45:26.639 --> 00:45:29.880
<v Speaker 1>But then if he loses power, someone like olda Noberenaga

802
00:45:29.920 --> 00:45:32.239
<v Speaker 1>comes in and Kate's control of him, who controls them?

803
00:45:32.480 --> 00:45:33.679
<v Speaker 1>So the actual power is older.

804
00:45:34.039 --> 00:45:36.639
<v Speaker 2>You're thinking like lord man.

805
00:45:37.119 --> 00:45:40.400
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Ban comes in and he's like, well, actually I'm

806
00:45:40.440 --> 00:45:42.400
<v Speaker 1>more powerful. So you could go with the Hitler thing,

807
00:45:42.440 --> 00:45:45.719
<v Speaker 1>which is Rommel. Hitler had Rommel killed because he was like,

808
00:45:45.719 --> 00:45:48.800
<v Speaker 1>you know, you've got the German emperors, we got rid of.

809
00:45:49.119 --> 00:45:51.280
<v Speaker 1>Hitler comes in, but then Rommel is doing better than him,

810
00:45:51.280 --> 00:45:54.280
<v Speaker 1>so Hitler's like, let's kill Rommel before he becomes too powerful.

811
00:45:54.679 --> 00:45:57.679
<v Speaker 1>The same happened to older Nobiga. They his own men

812
00:45:57.760 --> 00:45:59.639
<v Speaker 1>killed him because he was just too powerful.

813
00:45:59.679 --> 00:46:02.760
<v Speaker 2>His own miller forced Raml to drink poison.

814
00:46:03.960 --> 00:46:05.880
<v Speaker 1>I don't know, I can't remember. He shot himself in

815
00:46:05.920 --> 00:46:09.760
<v Speaker 1>the car, had to take poison poison, right, Okay, I think,

816
00:46:09.800 --> 00:46:12.920
<v Speaker 1>And then I can't remember. But yes, he was like,

817
00:46:13.039 --> 00:46:15.320
<v Speaker 1>you're too good. I'm getting rid of you before you

818
00:46:15.360 --> 00:46:20.079
<v Speaker 1>get rid of me. I'm just going to Africa. I

819
00:46:20.079 --> 00:46:21.280
<v Speaker 1>don't know what you're talking about.

820
00:46:21.760 --> 00:46:24.360
<v Speaker 2>Stupid, because Rama was one of his best generals and

821
00:46:24.440 --> 00:46:28.519
<v Speaker 2>he took him out. Yeah, it was too bad. We're

822
00:46:28.559 --> 00:46:30.639
<v Speaker 2>going to take a short commercial break to allow our

823
00:46:30.679 --> 00:46:35.039
<v Speaker 2>sponsors to identify themselves, and will return shortly with my

824
00:46:35.239 --> 00:46:40.199
<v Speaker 2>guest today, Anthony Cummins discussing his new book, Zin and

825
00:46:40.239 --> 00:46:45.639
<v Speaker 2>the Samurai Sword. Will be right back with you shortly.

826
00:47:30.280 --> 00:47:32.719
<v Speaker 2>I guess today is Anthony Cummins. He has written a

827
00:47:32.760 --> 00:47:36.599
<v Speaker 2>wonderful book called Zen and the Samurai Sword. This is

828
00:47:36.760 --> 00:47:42.440
<v Speaker 2>a book on one hundred lessons on the mindset, the

829
00:47:42.480 --> 00:47:47.400
<v Speaker 2>physical set, and the spiritual accutum of a Zen warrior

830
00:47:47.480 --> 00:47:53.480
<v Speaker 2>known as a samurai. All right, well, let's get to

831
00:47:53.760 --> 00:47:57.760
<v Speaker 2>the ninja. There's a tremendous amount of misunderstanding about the ninja.

832
00:47:58.280 --> 00:48:03.800
<v Speaker 2>It's like it's its own, it's its own group. Give

833
00:48:03.880 --> 00:48:08.800
<v Speaker 2>us the definition and then how they worked within the samurai.

834
00:48:12.760 --> 00:48:16.239
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, no problem. Are you all right, Christmas? Oh sorry,

835
00:48:16.840 --> 00:48:19.920
<v Speaker 1>Cliff you Paule's there, Yeah, we're good.

836
00:48:20.000 --> 00:48:20.159
<v Speaker 2>Right.

837
00:48:21.320 --> 00:48:24.519
<v Speaker 1>So basically, this is what it is. Everyone believes at

838
00:48:24.519 --> 00:48:26.800
<v Speaker 1>the minute, or most people believe that the Ninja were

839
00:48:26.840 --> 00:48:29.840
<v Speaker 1>their own little sect inside of some mountains. They dressed

840
00:48:29.840 --> 00:48:32.360
<v Speaker 1>in black, and they had little throwing stars and they

841
00:48:32.559 --> 00:48:36.760
<v Speaker 1>fought the samurai that you know, that was the trope. Actually,

842
00:48:36.920 --> 00:48:40.559
<v Speaker 1>what the Ninja are is just the same as the

843
00:48:40.559 --> 00:48:43.840
<v Speaker 1>CIA or the It's like the Seals and the CIA

844
00:48:43.960 --> 00:48:47.199
<v Speaker 1>mixed together inside your army. So imagine you've got all

845
00:48:47.239 --> 00:48:49.960
<v Speaker 1>your army there, all your Samurai stood together, and there's

846
00:48:50.000 --> 00:48:53.840
<v Speaker 1>a group of rough looking lads with knives in their mouths, tattoos,

847
00:48:53.920 --> 00:48:56.360
<v Speaker 1>you know, like you know, skinheads and all that. You know,

848
00:48:56.519 --> 00:48:59.199
<v Speaker 1>we're going to fight to the death, and they creep

849
00:48:59.239 --> 00:49:02.480
<v Speaker 1>behind enemy and they do all that. So that's who

850
00:49:02.519 --> 00:49:06.199
<v Speaker 1>they are. They're especially trained soldiers who do a specific job.

851
00:49:07.000 --> 00:49:09.880
<v Speaker 1>But they are divided into two just like CIA. They

852
00:49:09.880 --> 00:49:12.559
<v Speaker 1>go behind enemy lines and they address as shopkeepers. They

853
00:49:12.559 --> 00:49:16.480
<v Speaker 1>have language specialist, code breakers, code makers, and they also

854
00:49:16.519 --> 00:49:19.119
<v Speaker 1>have those who stay with the army, and they will literally,

855
00:49:19.159 --> 00:49:21.039
<v Speaker 1>like you know, patrol the army and kill people in

856
00:49:21.079 --> 00:49:24.239
<v Speaker 1>the night. That's the main two sets of ninja. And

857
00:49:24.280 --> 00:49:26.039
<v Speaker 1>they're always inside the Samurai army.

858
00:49:26.599 --> 00:49:30.239
<v Speaker 2>So they're not mercenaries. They're not You can't buy them

859
00:49:30.280 --> 00:49:32.639
<v Speaker 2>if you want to protect your village.

860
00:49:35.599 --> 00:49:41.760
<v Speaker 1>No, but this is another fundamental problem with samurai is this. Honestly,

861
00:49:41.800 --> 00:49:43.840
<v Speaker 1>you can keep digging here, Cley, We'll keep going down

862
00:49:44.280 --> 00:49:49.800
<v Speaker 1>into the dam. Basically, samurai will divide into two basic people,

863
00:49:49.920 --> 00:49:53.880
<v Speaker 1>those who will be generationally serve their lord. So imagine

864
00:49:54.719 --> 00:49:58.280
<v Speaker 1>the Churchills have served the queen for twelve generations and

865
00:49:58.360 --> 00:50:01.000
<v Speaker 1>they've never turned their backs on them. But some of

866
00:50:01.039 --> 00:50:03.719
<v Speaker 1>the you know, but other clans will serve other people

867
00:50:03.760 --> 00:50:07.280
<v Speaker 1>and do other things. So the term mercenary in Japan

868
00:50:07.360 --> 00:50:10.400
<v Speaker 1>doesn't quite work because that's how their war. You would

869
00:50:10.440 --> 00:50:12.840
<v Speaker 1>rent yourself out for war. A samurai would go and

870
00:50:12.880 --> 00:50:16.119
<v Speaker 1>become loyal to their lord for a period of time,

871
00:50:16.440 --> 00:50:19.079
<v Speaker 1>but they can equally change to another lord later. That's

872
00:50:19.119 --> 00:50:21.880
<v Speaker 1>one of the things what was praised is if your

873
00:50:21.960 --> 00:50:25.599
<v Speaker 1>family served a certain lord for generations, and then you

874
00:50:25.639 --> 00:50:29.079
<v Speaker 1>could say, yes, you know, we have served for seven generations.

875
00:50:29.079 --> 00:50:33.239
<v Speaker 1>We're never gonna change sides. So you can hire people.

876
00:50:33.639 --> 00:50:35.760
<v Speaker 1>But no, you couldn't just go and get a ninja

877
00:50:35.800 --> 00:50:37.880
<v Speaker 1>from the mountains and say can you come and protect

878
00:50:37.880 --> 00:50:38.400
<v Speaker 1>my village?

879
00:50:38.400 --> 00:50:38.599
<v Speaker 2>You know.

880
00:50:38.519 --> 00:50:41.400
<v Speaker 1>No, No, what they normally did is they went up

881
00:50:41.480 --> 00:50:43.880
<v Speaker 1>to a lord and said, listen, I am such and

882
00:50:43.920 --> 00:50:46.480
<v Speaker 1>such a samurai from such and such a place. I'm

883
00:50:46.480 --> 00:50:50.039
<v Speaker 1>an expert in ninjitsu and the art of the ninja,

884
00:50:50.079 --> 00:50:52.360
<v Speaker 1>and I will work for you. And then what they

885
00:50:52.400 --> 00:50:54.920
<v Speaker 1>have to do is exchange hostages that his wife will

886
00:50:54.960 --> 00:50:57.760
<v Speaker 1>go in as exchange for hostage. Children will go in

887
00:50:57.920 --> 00:50:59.880
<v Speaker 1>and they they're kept in luxury, you know, they're kept

888
00:50:59.920 --> 00:51:03.199
<v Speaker 1>in their little pallis aias, and if that guy turns

889
00:51:03.320 --> 00:51:07.480
<v Speaker 1>spy or traitor, they will kill them. So to counter this,

890
00:51:07.559 --> 00:51:09.400
<v Speaker 1>the ninja would get a fake wife. He'd go and

891
00:51:09.400 --> 00:51:11.840
<v Speaker 1>marry someone without telling us she was a ninja, just

892
00:51:11.840 --> 00:51:14.400
<v Speaker 1>telling Mama samurai and I love you, darling. They'd have

893
00:51:14.480 --> 00:51:16.920
<v Speaker 1>children and he'd put them in and then he'd go

894
00:51:16.960 --> 00:51:18.480
<v Speaker 1>and cheat on them. They die, and he'd go off

895
00:51:18.480 --> 00:51:23.960
<v Speaker 1>and win the war. Let's talk about women.

896
00:51:25.960 --> 00:51:31.119
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's hilarious. Let's talk about women in the samurais society.

897
00:51:31.199 --> 00:51:34.920
<v Speaker 2>In these in these funeral periods of medieval periods, there's

898
00:51:35.000 --> 00:51:37.760
<v Speaker 2>they seem to be subservent unless you're in the government,

899
00:51:37.920 --> 00:51:44.440
<v Speaker 2>which is uh, the sugun's wife or the emperor's wife.

900
00:51:45.800 --> 00:51:47.320
<v Speaker 2>Is that just by design?

901
00:51:48.960 --> 00:51:52.800
<v Speaker 1>Well, actually, this this gets a bit complicated because it's

902
00:51:52.920 --> 00:51:55.920
<v Speaker 1>like most medieval things, it's been too simplified.

903
00:51:55.960 --> 00:51:56.039
<v Speaker 2>This.

904
00:51:56.679 --> 00:52:00.320
<v Speaker 1>Yes, women are one hundred percent subservient to men, not

905
00:52:00.400 --> 00:52:04.719
<v Speaker 1>all men, only their own equal standing men. So a

906
00:52:04.800 --> 00:52:07.440
<v Speaker 1>woman of the household whose wife to a samurai is

907
00:52:07.599 --> 00:52:10.599
<v Speaker 1>one hundred percent higher ranking than all the other men

908
00:52:10.679 --> 00:52:13.639
<v Speaker 1>in the house. She is or higher than the servants,

909
00:52:13.679 --> 00:52:16.960
<v Speaker 1>the slaves, the messengers, the postman, and everybody bows to her.

910
00:52:17.239 --> 00:52:19.719
<v Speaker 1>She is in command, but she bows to her husband.

911
00:52:21.119 --> 00:52:22.679
<v Speaker 1>So you've got to remember that. And so the higher

912
00:52:22.679 --> 00:52:25.440
<v Speaker 1>the ranking samurai, the hire his wife is, which means

913
00:52:25.440 --> 00:52:28.199
<v Speaker 1>the men underneath that have to bow to her. And

914
00:52:28.400 --> 00:52:32.280
<v Speaker 1>earlier in samurai times the women had more rights. What

915
00:52:32.519 --> 00:52:36.320
<v Speaker 1>happened was this once the un once they got everybody together,

916
00:52:36.400 --> 00:52:40.599
<v Speaker 1>this older nober Niagara and the three warlords, they changed

917
00:52:40.639 --> 00:52:43.360
<v Speaker 1>from zen Buddhism being the greatest thing and all that,

918
00:52:43.639 --> 00:52:47.800
<v Speaker 1>and said, let's study Confucianism. Confucianism is the best thing.

919
00:52:47.920 --> 00:52:51.800
<v Speaker 1>Everyone study it because Confucianism says you have a place

920
00:52:51.800 --> 00:52:55.239
<v Speaker 1>in society. Men are highest, and you don't move from

921
00:52:55.280 --> 00:52:59.000
<v Speaker 1>that position, don't ever move, and spe subservient. So then

922
00:52:59.119 --> 00:53:02.079
<v Speaker 1>you get women a really mistreated then in that period,

923
00:53:02.280 --> 00:53:07.519
<v Speaker 1>because Confucianism like places this massive patriarchal structure over them.

924
00:53:07.760 --> 00:53:11.360
<v Speaker 1>So actually it changes a bit. Well even then higher

925
00:53:11.440 --> 00:53:13.320
<v Speaker 1>ranking women are higher than lower ranking men.

926
00:53:14.079 --> 00:53:17.679
<v Speaker 2>Is this where the geisha comes out? Is this feudal period,

927
00:53:17.719 --> 00:53:19.599
<v Speaker 2>this medieval period, or is it later?

928
00:53:20.719 --> 00:53:23.159
<v Speaker 1>Note the geisha are there for years, and that's down

929
00:53:23.199 --> 00:53:26.159
<v Speaker 1>to we can now swing back to the aristocratic type

930
00:53:26.199 --> 00:53:30.599
<v Speaker 1>parties if you wanted, you know what, to emulate the emperor.

931
00:53:30.840 --> 00:53:33.119
<v Speaker 1>You know, it's the same in our cultures. It's like,

932
00:53:33.400 --> 00:53:37.639
<v Speaker 1>what's the president doing, what's he wearing, what's his wife wearing?

933
00:53:37.679 --> 00:53:39.719
<v Speaker 1>What music is he listening to? Yeah, so it's the

934
00:53:39.800 --> 00:53:42.239
<v Speaker 1>same what's the emperor doing? What are they doing? So

935
00:53:42.400 --> 00:53:44.719
<v Speaker 1>geishas are going out and saying, oh, this is the

936
00:53:44.719 --> 00:53:48.119
<v Speaker 1>newest music everybody's listening to. And they cost a lot

937
00:53:48.159 --> 00:53:50.679
<v Speaker 1>of money. So the higher ranking geisher you get, the

938
00:53:50.679 --> 00:53:53.800
<v Speaker 1>more you can entertain. You imagine now it would be

939
00:53:53.840 --> 00:53:58.599
<v Speaker 1>like throwing a party with just magnums of champagne everywhere.

940
00:53:58.840 --> 00:54:03.760
<v Speaker 1>They're like, you could have what is it like Tony

941
00:54:03.760 --> 00:54:05.719
<v Speaker 1>Blair or someone come and speak at your you know

942
00:54:05.840 --> 00:54:10.559
<v Speaker 1>finger and jk Row Yeah, k Kate that no, you

943
00:54:10.639 --> 00:54:13.639
<v Speaker 1>are you are completely right. I trying to find an example.

944
00:54:14.199 --> 00:54:17.199
<v Speaker 1>Kim Kardashian turns up and she says, here's the newest

945
00:54:17.239 --> 00:54:21.440
<v Speaker 1>booty dance and she's twerking, you know, but it just

946
00:54:21.480 --> 00:54:24.599
<v Speaker 1>happens to be medieval lovely dancing. But it's the same thing.

947
00:54:25.360 --> 00:54:26.760
<v Speaker 1>This is us, This is prestige.

948
00:54:27.119 --> 00:54:29.920
<v Speaker 2>Wow, let's talk about this book title Zin in the

949
00:54:29.960 --> 00:54:37.119
<v Speaker 2>Samurai Sword, subtitle Japanese Warrior Techniques for Agility, Clarity and Calm. Okay,

950
00:54:37.639 --> 00:54:42.280
<v Speaker 2>one hundred lessons. What is the purpose of the one

951
00:54:42.320 --> 00:54:44.519
<v Speaker 2>hundred lessons? And we're going to talk about some lessons

952
00:54:44.559 --> 00:54:45.159
<v Speaker 2>here in a minute.

953
00:54:46.280 --> 00:54:50.320
<v Speaker 1>So basically, I did a book originally called one called

954
00:54:50.320 --> 00:54:52.239
<v Speaker 1>How to Be a Modern Samurai, and this is actually

955
00:54:52.280 --> 00:54:53.800
<v Speaker 1>a sister book to that. You don't have to read

956
00:54:53.800 --> 00:54:55.840
<v Speaker 1>them both, you can read them independently. But what I'm

957
00:54:55.840 --> 00:54:58.760
<v Speaker 1>trying to do is build up from the foundations through this.

958
00:54:59.119 --> 00:55:00.440
<v Speaker 1>So what I did is I should to it to

959
00:55:00.440 --> 00:55:02.760
<v Speaker 1>a one hundred lessons before in the other book. I'm

960
00:55:02.760 --> 00:55:04.639
<v Speaker 1>structuring it to one hundred lessons in this book, and

961
00:55:04.679 --> 00:55:07.440
<v Speaker 1>I'm hoping to do a third one with one hundred lessons.

962
00:55:07.519 --> 00:55:10.559
<v Speaker 1>And the idea is it's just that decimal, lovely thing.

963
00:55:10.719 --> 00:55:12.840
<v Speaker 1>So it took me a long time to divide everything

964
00:55:13.199 --> 00:55:15.679
<v Speaker 1>between the one hundred actually, so it's not there's no

965
00:55:15.840 --> 00:55:19.440
<v Speaker 1>like spiritual reason for it. Okay. The idea is what

966
00:55:19.599 --> 00:55:21.920
<v Speaker 1>I like to do. I do two types of books.

967
00:55:21.960 --> 00:55:25.320
<v Speaker 1>One is really complicated academic translation of things, but the

968
00:55:25.320 --> 00:55:28.559
<v Speaker 1>other one is I love the idea of ancient philosophy

969
00:55:28.760 --> 00:55:32.920
<v Speaker 1>told simply with an easy I call it my three

970
00:55:33.000 --> 00:55:35.639
<v Speaker 1>rhythm beat. So I'll have the title which tells you

971
00:55:35.639 --> 00:55:38.679
<v Speaker 1>what it is, I have the information about where you

972
00:55:38.840 --> 00:55:40.840
<v Speaker 1>learn it, and then have a little bold thing at

973
00:55:40.880 --> 00:55:43.760
<v Speaker 1>the bottom which reiterates something about it so you can

974
00:55:43.840 --> 00:55:47.159
<v Speaker 1>read it. And it's usually within a page. And I

975
00:55:47.199 --> 00:55:50.639
<v Speaker 1>call this my taxi driver theory. Is your taxi driver.

976
00:55:51.039 --> 00:55:52.920
<v Speaker 1>He's bored, he's been on a job, he's got to

977
00:55:52.960 --> 00:55:54.960
<v Speaker 1>wait in the car parking lot for the next person.

978
00:55:55.119 --> 00:55:57.480
<v Speaker 1>He's only got minutes, so he can read three beats

979
00:55:57.639 --> 00:56:00.400
<v Speaker 1>learn something. It goes in instead of having to say, oh,

980
00:56:00.400 --> 00:56:02.920
<v Speaker 1>you know, not this what page amount or what we're

981
00:56:02.960 --> 00:56:06.880
<v Speaker 1>we talking about. It's that I've made them easy to understand.

982
00:56:07.800 --> 00:56:12.440
<v Speaker 2>Okay, And so like, let's look at the first one.

983
00:56:12.599 --> 00:56:17.760
<v Speaker 2>Less than one become a Zen warrior. When you're saying that,

984
00:56:19.280 --> 00:56:27.400
<v Speaker 2>you're asking them to take on the characteristics of that individual,

985
00:56:28.000 --> 00:56:35.199
<v Speaker 2>the Zen philosophy, the meditative quality and the ability to

986
00:56:35.239 --> 00:56:42.760
<v Speaker 2>strike quickly, you know, mentally, physically, spiritually. So define that.

987
00:56:43.280 --> 00:56:47.559
<v Speaker 2>Define that in the modern world, Anthony find it as

988
00:56:47.639 --> 00:56:51.440
<v Speaker 2>we live today, in the complexities of our world.

989
00:56:52.360 --> 00:56:55.800
<v Speaker 1>So basically, the war inside your mind is the number

990
00:56:55.800 --> 00:56:58.440
<v Speaker 1>one war. So obviously we like the Sammarai. We won't

991
00:56:58.599 --> 00:57:00.800
<v Speaker 1>We know they went to war, but Buddha, we let's

992
00:57:00.800 --> 00:57:03.000
<v Speaker 1>take this back to what Buddhist said, which is, there

993
00:57:03.039 --> 00:57:05.280
<v Speaker 1>is no one else but you. That's the problem. There's

994
00:57:05.280 --> 00:57:07.639
<v Speaker 1>no one else a pressing here, there's nothing else. You

995
00:57:07.800 --> 00:57:10.119
<v Speaker 1>have to learn to cut through your own delusion. So

996
00:57:10.159 --> 00:57:12.960
<v Speaker 1>when you look at Buddhist statues, a lot of them

997
00:57:13.000 --> 00:57:15.480
<v Speaker 1>carry swords. Why would a Buddhist statue have a sword.

998
00:57:15.760 --> 00:57:18.480
<v Speaker 1>It's ridiculous, you know why. And usually it's to cut

999
00:57:18.480 --> 00:57:21.599
<v Speaker 1>through your own problem. So the sword is a symbol

1000
00:57:21.840 --> 00:57:25.119
<v Speaker 1>for destroying your own negativity. That's the point of it.

1001
00:57:25.440 --> 00:57:27.719
<v Speaker 1>So you've got one more one place to fight, and

1002
00:57:27.760 --> 00:57:29.639
<v Speaker 1>that's in your mind, and it's to carve through that

1003
00:57:29.719 --> 00:57:32.599
<v Speaker 1>until you get to the great realization. So we're busy,

1004
00:57:32.880 --> 00:57:36.119
<v Speaker 1>we're struggling. She said this, They said that, am I

1005
00:57:36.159 --> 00:57:38.559
<v Speaker 1>gonna watch Kim kardash Year? And am I gonna do this?

1006
00:57:39.280 --> 00:57:41.159
<v Speaker 1>You know that's where we're You know, I've got a

1007
00:57:41.239 --> 00:57:44.440
<v Speaker 1>Netflix to watch. Nope, stop, Go and take some time

1008
00:57:44.480 --> 00:57:49.960
<v Speaker 1>for yourself, Buy a cushion, sit down, relax, and analyze

1009
00:57:49.960 --> 00:57:53.199
<v Speaker 1>in your own mind what are your own negativity points

1010
00:57:53.360 --> 00:57:54.440
<v Speaker 1>and then cut them down.

1011
00:57:56.519 --> 00:58:04.320
<v Speaker 2>Okay, so you're instilling the samurai philosophy to a modern society.

1012
00:58:04.360 --> 00:58:06.199
<v Speaker 2>This is what I'm getting from what you're saying to me.

1013
00:58:06.599 --> 00:58:07.119
<v Speaker 1>Very much.

1014
00:58:08.639 --> 00:58:11.119
<v Speaker 2>And we haven't even talked about swordian. You must have

1015
00:58:11.159 --> 00:58:13.760
<v Speaker 2>a killer selection of samurai swords, is that true.

1016
00:58:14.599 --> 00:58:16.559
<v Speaker 1>I've got a good selection. Yes, she has a good selection.

1017
00:58:16.599 --> 00:58:19.320
<v Speaker 1>Now I've only got one original, unfortunately, because they can

1018
00:58:19.360 --> 00:58:22.559
<v Speaker 1>go for quite a lot of money. Original. Yeah, yeah,

1019
00:58:23.119 --> 00:58:25.920
<v Speaker 1>from five hundred years ago. It's five hundred year old.

1020
00:58:26.280 --> 00:58:29.000
<v Speaker 1>You can't pick them up, not too much. But yes,

1021
00:58:29.039 --> 00:58:31.079
<v Speaker 1>you're in the thousands, and then you go into the

1022
00:58:31.119 --> 00:58:33.360
<v Speaker 1>tens of thousands, and then there's swords for millions. There's

1023
00:58:33.360 --> 00:58:36.159
<v Speaker 1>samurai sords out for millions, you know, depending on who

1024
00:58:36.199 --> 00:58:38.719
<v Speaker 1>owned it and where it was made or who made it.

1025
00:58:38.960 --> 00:58:41.079
<v Speaker 1>Yeah right, yeah, yeah totally who made it?

1026
00:58:41.199 --> 00:58:45.639
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, real quickly. So it's kind of scary because these

1027
00:58:45.679 --> 00:58:48.719
<v Speaker 2>things are lethal, these swords, you know, I mean you

1028
00:58:48.719 --> 00:58:51.000
<v Speaker 2>could not just cut your finger, you cut your arm

1029
00:58:51.079 --> 00:58:52.840
<v Speaker 2>off totally.

1030
00:58:53.280 --> 00:58:56.159
<v Speaker 1>They will go through your body, no problem.

1031
00:58:56.800 --> 00:58:59.639
<v Speaker 2>I didn't look into the book about swordsmanship. I kind

1032
00:58:59.639 --> 00:59:04.000
<v Speaker 2>of aised over. It glanced over. Excuse me, how do

1033
00:59:04.159 --> 00:59:06.559
<v Speaker 2>we go about working with swords? Do you work with

1034
00:59:06.599 --> 00:59:10.719
<v Speaker 2>the wooden version of a sword? Talk about that because

1035
00:59:11.400 --> 00:59:14.239
<v Speaker 2>they're beautiful. It's like me, I love guns, but I

1036
00:59:14.239 --> 00:59:18.639
<v Speaker 2>would never have one. I just I'm afraid there's too

1037
00:59:18.679 --> 00:59:20.159
<v Speaker 2>many problems associated with them.

1038
00:59:20.599 --> 00:59:21.360
<v Speaker 1>How do you go.

1039
00:59:21.239 --> 00:59:25.800
<v Speaker 2>About living in the modern world with these lethal weapons?

1040
00:59:27.079 --> 00:59:29.239
<v Speaker 1>So that obviously down to your So for example, it's

1041
00:59:29.280 --> 00:59:31.880
<v Speaker 1>down to your society. In England, we cannot own a gun.

1042
00:59:31.960 --> 00:59:34.360
<v Speaker 1>You just can't own the gun unless you are a

1043
00:59:34.599 --> 00:59:37.639
<v Speaker 1>farmer shooting. It's only a shotgun. But having a gun

1044
00:59:37.679 --> 00:59:39.719
<v Speaker 1>in England is almost impossible, you know, it's a very

1045
00:59:39.800 --> 00:59:42.440
<v Speaker 1>very rare thing. So we can have swords that they're

1046
00:59:42.440 --> 00:59:44.559
<v Speaker 1>trying to ban them at the minute. So I tend

1047
00:59:44.599 --> 00:59:48.800
<v Speaker 1>to have some blunt ones, but at ninety nine point

1048
00:59:48.840 --> 00:59:50.199
<v Speaker 1>nine percent at the time, I work with a wood

1049
00:59:50.239 --> 00:59:52.519
<v Speaker 1>one one. You know, I pretty much I'll get my

1050
00:59:52.840 --> 00:59:57.400
<v Speaker 1>shout ones out occasionally, but I work with a wood one. Okay,

1051
00:59:57.599 --> 01:00:00.639
<v Speaker 1>I do have them. You know, they've become symbolic, and

1052
01:00:00.679 --> 01:00:03.320
<v Speaker 1>they are symbolic. So this is where it goes back

1053
01:00:03.360 --> 01:00:06.000
<v Speaker 1>to the last samurai without trying to make it cheesy

1054
01:00:06.079 --> 01:00:09.039
<v Speaker 1>like the last samurai. We have to go that direction.

1055
01:00:09.440 --> 01:00:12.280
<v Speaker 1>We have to say this is actually a symbol, and

1056
01:00:12.320 --> 01:00:15.000
<v Speaker 1>they samurai did believe it was a symbol, and the

1057
01:00:15.000 --> 01:00:17.800
<v Speaker 1>Buddhist statues, the bud believed it was a symbol to

1058
01:00:17.920 --> 01:00:20.880
<v Speaker 1>cut through our own problems. And the swordsman ship gives

1059
01:00:20.880 --> 01:00:23.280
<v Speaker 1>you a focus for that. It gives you a focus,

1060
01:00:23.719 --> 01:00:26.400
<v Speaker 1>you know, because meditating on its own is really difficult.

1061
01:00:26.480 --> 01:00:29.760
<v Speaker 1>It's hard, and most people just stop doing it. Yeah.

1062
01:00:29.840 --> 01:00:34.360
<v Speaker 2>So is the interpretation of the samurai walking around with

1063
01:00:34.400 --> 01:00:38.239
<v Speaker 2>the sword and then the little tiny sword in his belt?

1064
01:00:38.360 --> 01:00:40.119
<v Speaker 2>Is that correct?

1065
01:00:40.719 --> 01:00:42.639
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's correct, that's what we'd say. Correct. And they

1066
01:00:42.639 --> 01:00:45.800
<v Speaker 1>would never be seen without those swords, and there's very

1067
01:00:45.840 --> 01:00:48.719
<v Speaker 1>strict places where they take them off and keep them on.

1068
01:00:49.519 --> 01:00:56.719
<v Speaker 2>So the wearing of the swords is not necessarily I

1069
01:00:56.719 --> 01:00:58.800
<v Speaker 2>guess it is ceremonial, isn't it.

1070
01:01:00.119 --> 01:01:03.679
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's traditional, but definitely traditional, and you would, yeah,

1071
01:01:03.719 --> 01:01:06.960
<v Speaker 1>you would go through ceremonies with the sword. But mainly

1072
01:01:07.760 --> 01:01:10.519
<v Speaker 1>that's this is weird. It is a practical implement at

1073
01:01:10.559 --> 01:01:13.559
<v Speaker 1>your side. It's also your status symbol as a samurai,

1074
01:01:13.679 --> 01:01:16.400
<v Speaker 1>but of course that's no longer there. But there is

1075
01:01:16.440 --> 01:01:18.960
<v Speaker 1>the myth that it represents your soul, but that's not true.

1076
01:01:19.000 --> 01:01:21.840
<v Speaker 1>That you know the samurai is you know, he's represented

1077
01:01:21.880 --> 01:01:24.920
<v Speaker 1>by sword. That's not true. But at the same time,

1078
01:01:24.960 --> 01:01:27.719
<v Speaker 1>a samurai would never ever be without his sword. It

1079
01:01:27.760 --> 01:01:31.239
<v Speaker 1>would be like the worst faux pat to ever do.

1080
01:01:31.559 --> 01:01:33.679
<v Speaker 1>Like walking round at the operas with you know, the

1081
01:01:33.679 --> 01:01:36.920
<v Speaker 1>oscars without any clothes on. People would literally look at

1082
01:01:36.920 --> 01:01:39.159
<v Speaker 1>you like you are crazy. If a samurai want down

1083
01:01:39.159 --> 01:01:40.800
<v Speaker 1>the street without swords on, they would just be like,

1084
01:01:41.000 --> 01:01:43.199
<v Speaker 1>what are you doing? Funny.

1085
01:01:43.599 --> 01:01:46.519
<v Speaker 2>Let's talk about another lesson, Lesson twenty one, which is,

1086
01:01:46.559 --> 01:01:51.800
<v Speaker 2>and you can correct my pronunciation, practice the zay and

1087
01:01:51.880 --> 01:01:55.639
<v Speaker 2>other forms of meditation. Now that's I like that because

1088
01:01:56.119 --> 01:01:58.719
<v Speaker 2>I think more people need to learn meditation to quiet

1089
01:01:58.800 --> 01:02:03.079
<v Speaker 2>the mind. But specifically, what are you recommending by that practice?

1090
01:02:04.239 --> 01:02:06.239
<v Speaker 1>So that is called it's actually called zazen and it

1091
01:02:06.360 --> 01:02:10.760
<v Speaker 1>means seated meditation and zen. So the word zen is

1092
01:02:10.880 --> 01:02:16.320
<v Speaker 1>actually a Japanese pronunciation of the Chinese word chian chat.

1093
01:02:16.320 --> 01:02:18.119
<v Speaker 1>It's really difficult to do the Chinese. I'm not even

1094
01:02:18.119 --> 01:02:20.400
<v Speaker 1>gonna try in the Indian one. And the Chinese name

1095
01:02:20.599 --> 01:02:23.880
<v Speaker 1>Chan is actually a pronunciation of an Indian word which

1096
01:02:23.960 --> 01:02:26.199
<v Speaker 1>was around at the time of the Buddha, and we

1097
01:02:26.320 --> 01:02:28.639
<v Speaker 1>go back to the budder all the time. Most people

1098
01:02:28.719 --> 01:02:30.639
<v Speaker 1>forget to go back to the budder when they do zen.

1099
01:02:30.840 --> 01:02:33.039
<v Speaker 1>But it's about meditation, and you must sit down and

1100
01:02:33.039 --> 01:02:37.239
<v Speaker 1>you must meditate personally. I prefer there's two ways I

1101
01:02:37.280 --> 01:02:40.559
<v Speaker 1>prefer meditate. That is one chopping wood. You never ever,

1102
01:02:40.719 --> 01:02:43.719
<v Speaker 1>your mind never strays. I normally chop wood in flip flops.

1103
01:02:44.239 --> 01:02:45.840
<v Speaker 1>Have you ever tried to chop the wood at your

1104
01:02:45.880 --> 01:02:48.400
<v Speaker 1>feet in flip flops? You will never think of anything

1105
01:02:48.400 --> 01:02:52.079
<v Speaker 1>else you think of chopping wood. So it's very focused.

1106
01:02:52.440 --> 01:02:55.079
<v Speaker 1>And of course when you and I, when I walk,

1107
01:02:55.119 --> 01:02:58.760
<v Speaker 1>I love walking. And but then that asked the question,

1108
01:02:59.000 --> 01:03:01.280
<v Speaker 1>and I know you do me, so I ask the questions,

1109
01:03:01.360 --> 01:03:04.679
<v Speaker 1>should meditation be formal or should it be more informal

1110
01:03:04.719 --> 01:03:08.119
<v Speaker 1>because the Japanese have it down very very formally. But

1111
01:03:08.320 --> 01:03:10.920
<v Speaker 1>is that then no longer meditation? I don't know.

1112
01:03:13.159 --> 01:03:15.760
<v Speaker 2>You go to a quiet room, you sit on a

1113
01:03:15.800 --> 01:03:20.000
<v Speaker 2>special pillow, you you have no interruptions for thirty minutes,

1114
01:03:20.599 --> 01:03:24.280
<v Speaker 2>and then you close your eyes and you meditate.

1115
01:03:25.360 --> 01:03:27.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and they've got to have the posture in a

1116
01:03:27.000 --> 01:03:29.760
<v Speaker 1>certain way. They've got to so For example, there's walking meditation,

1117
01:03:29.840 --> 01:03:31.679
<v Speaker 1>which is what I like. And they don't just walk,

1118
01:03:31.800 --> 01:03:34.360
<v Speaker 1>they do a specific step in a rhythm to a

1119
01:03:34.440 --> 01:03:37.119
<v Speaker 1>time and they go round in a circle. And then

1120
01:03:37.159 --> 01:03:39.159
<v Speaker 1>the lead monk will be hitting when there was a stick

1121
01:03:39.199 --> 01:03:41.440
<v Speaker 1>when they're sat down, if they're not quite doing it right,

1122
01:03:41.519 --> 01:03:44.079
<v Speaker 1>or they don't interpret the energy from them right, and

1123
01:03:44.119 --> 01:03:46.559
<v Speaker 1>it almost becomes and then you have what's a I

1124
01:03:46.599 --> 01:03:49.239
<v Speaker 1>think it's called mondo, the questions and answer of like

1125
01:03:49.360 --> 01:03:52.280
<v Speaker 1>Coen's and you know, these strange riddles and there's certain

1126
01:03:52.320 --> 01:03:57.440
<v Speaker 1>answers you should give, almost formulaic, and I'm like, to me,

1127
01:03:58.119 --> 01:04:01.360
<v Speaker 1>walking in the woods and clearing your mind is probably

1128
01:04:01.559 --> 01:04:04.719
<v Speaker 1>more accurate to what the Buddha said than all those

1129
01:04:04.880 --> 01:04:07.679
<v Speaker 1>very strict Japanese rules. You know, the buddhy didn't it

1130
01:04:07.719 --> 01:04:09.480
<v Speaker 1>didn't have these rules. He just sat under the tree

1131
01:04:09.480 --> 01:04:12.159
<v Speaker 1>and said, I am going to have this realization. I'm

1132
01:04:12.159 --> 01:04:15.440
<v Speaker 1>going to break through. But yet the Japanese are so

1133
01:04:15.480 --> 01:04:19.280
<v Speaker 1>bothered about these little nuances in the uniform and the

1134
01:04:19.480 --> 01:04:21.480
<v Speaker 1>have I got this bubble right? And you know it's

1135
01:04:21.519 --> 01:04:23.840
<v Speaker 1>my top not right. It sort of takes away from

1136
01:04:24.119 --> 01:04:26.480
<v Speaker 1>the point of meditation. So I think what I'm trying

1137
01:04:26.519 --> 01:04:29.039
<v Speaker 1>to say with this lesson is you must take some

1138
01:04:29.079 --> 01:04:31.599
<v Speaker 1>time out of the day. But so this is why

1139
01:04:31.679 --> 01:04:33.760
<v Speaker 1>we go back to one of the early questions when

1140
01:04:33.760 --> 01:04:35.559
<v Speaker 1>you meditate, are you trying to clear your mind or

1141
01:04:35.599 --> 01:04:37.840
<v Speaker 1>you're trying to leave the cycle of life and death

1142
01:04:37.880 --> 01:04:41.679
<v Speaker 1>and become a budder. Most people they don't even consider

1143
01:04:41.719 --> 01:04:44.119
<v Speaker 1>that as a question, And that is the fundamental question.

1144
01:04:44.159 --> 01:04:45.320
<v Speaker 1>You've got to ask yourself.

1145
01:04:45.840 --> 01:04:48.760
<v Speaker 2>So again, and you may have said it, but I'm

1146
01:04:48.760 --> 01:04:52.440
<v Speaker 2>going to ask you again. Yes, by practicing the meditation,

1147
01:04:53.039 --> 01:04:57.239
<v Speaker 2>are you looking for a clarity in life after you

1148
01:04:57.320 --> 01:05:01.480
<v Speaker 2>have finished the technique of meditation or is it just

1149
01:05:01.519 --> 01:05:05.119
<v Speaker 2>a daily practice that you must do to be fulfilled?

1150
01:05:06.800 --> 01:05:10.360
<v Speaker 1>So, yeah, that is Uh, it's a difficult question to

1151
01:05:10.400 --> 01:05:13.159
<v Speaker 1>answer that because I think it does both. I first,

1152
01:05:13.159 --> 01:05:15.719
<v Speaker 1>when I first started to investigating meditation, I put it

1153
01:05:15.760 --> 01:05:19.639
<v Speaker 1>to like defragging a computer. Everyone used to defrag computers

1154
01:05:20.000 --> 01:05:22.559
<v Speaker 1>and you used to have to go and it was like,

1155
01:05:22.679 --> 01:05:26.239
<v Speaker 1>I've got to reorganize it. Yeah, and that's what it is.

1156
01:05:26.280 --> 01:05:29.760
<v Speaker 1>In my opinion, meditation at its base level, what everybody

1157
01:05:29.760 --> 01:05:32.440
<v Speaker 1>does when they say they do zen, they defrag their mind.

1158
01:05:32.519 --> 01:05:36.280
<v Speaker 1>That's all they're doing. So step one is reset your

1159
01:05:36.280 --> 01:05:39.760
<v Speaker 1>mind because otherwise the stress of the day, and this

1160
01:05:39.840 --> 01:05:42.920
<v Speaker 1>is where people have breakdowns, commits suicide. Goal to alcoholism

1161
01:05:43.199 --> 01:05:46.639
<v Speaker 1>is because they don't stop. It's none stop. We no

1162
01:05:46.719 --> 01:05:49.320
<v Speaker 1>longer short shops, we don't follow the Sabbath, we don't

1163
01:05:49.360 --> 01:05:52.159
<v Speaker 1>have any time off, we work Christmases. People are just

1164
01:05:52.239 --> 01:05:54.920
<v Speaker 1>like blowing up and you're like, well, just stop for

1165
01:05:54.960 --> 01:05:57.719
<v Speaker 1>twenty minutes a day. Literally try to do nothing for

1166
01:05:57.760 --> 01:06:00.960
<v Speaker 1>twenty minutes a day, and no one can do it. Recently,

1167
01:06:01.000 --> 01:06:02.679
<v Speaker 1>there was a YouTube video came out and I think

1168
01:06:02.719 --> 01:06:04.639
<v Speaker 1>it was a professional or something. He said, if you

1169
01:06:04.719 --> 01:06:07.239
<v Speaker 1>don't stop and get bored every day, you're there's a

1170
01:06:07.280 --> 01:06:10.119
<v Speaker 1>certain chemical that doesn't get produced in your brain. Sorry,

1171
01:06:10.119 --> 01:06:12.159
<v Speaker 1>I've not memorized this. That just only started a youtubutor

1172
01:06:12.239 --> 01:06:15.360
<v Speaker 1>and he said, we need to be bored. If you're

1173
01:06:15.360 --> 01:06:18.079
<v Speaker 1>not bored, you're designed to have this to reset your mind.

1174
01:06:18.440 --> 01:06:22.039
<v Speaker 1>And that is meditation is really boring. It's really to

1175
01:06:22.119 --> 01:06:22.400
<v Speaker 1>me that.

1176
01:06:22.400 --> 01:06:25.159
<v Speaker 2>I always you said something that I've always believed in,

1177
01:06:25.199 --> 01:06:32.480
<v Speaker 2>which is when I meditate, I reset my brain. I

1178
01:06:32.519 --> 01:06:37.039
<v Speaker 2>totally reset. In fact, I studied Tibetan version it's called

1179
01:06:37.079 --> 01:06:40.239
<v Speaker 2>transcendental meditation, which was brought to the US in the

1180
01:06:40.360 --> 01:06:45.639
<v Speaker 2>in the seventies, and it's it's based on short twenty

1181
01:06:45.639 --> 01:06:49.840
<v Speaker 2>minutes twice a day. So you reset the morning, perfect,

1182
01:06:50.000 --> 01:06:54.079
<v Speaker 2>you reset the afternoon. So interesting, So that that's so,

1183
01:06:54.159 --> 01:06:56.159
<v Speaker 2>that's the reset. And then the question is what do

1184
01:06:56.159 --> 01:06:56.880
<v Speaker 2>you do next?

1185
01:06:57.119 --> 01:06:58.960
<v Speaker 1>So if you if all you do is you reset,

1186
01:06:59.039 --> 01:07:01.960
<v Speaker 1>that's like I clean my shoes every day, well done.

1187
01:07:02.360 --> 01:07:04.599
<v Speaker 1>I clean my gun every day. Every time I shoot

1188
01:07:04.639 --> 01:07:06.679
<v Speaker 1>my gun, I clean it. Yes, that's correct. Because if

1189
01:07:06.679 --> 01:07:08.440
<v Speaker 1>you shot your gun we're talking about ones all your

1190
01:07:08.480 --> 01:07:11.039
<v Speaker 1>life and never cleaned it, it suddenly stopped working. But

1191
01:07:11.119 --> 01:07:13.719
<v Speaker 1>nobody meditates. But then your question is is what what's

1192
01:07:13.760 --> 01:07:14.360
<v Speaker 1>the next step?

1193
01:07:16.199 --> 01:07:19.239
<v Speaker 2>Exactly? I want to do two more quick lessons and

1194
01:07:19.239 --> 01:07:22.639
<v Speaker 2>then our time is h lesson three is in this one?

1195
01:07:22.719 --> 01:07:24.679
<v Speaker 2>I would love to hear what you you're gonna tell

1196
01:07:24.719 --> 01:07:28.239
<v Speaker 2>me the explanation? Embrace the confusion?

1197
01:07:30.480 --> 01:07:32.519
<v Speaker 1>Right? And sorry? Is that lesson three? Did you let's

1198
01:07:32.559 --> 01:07:32.960
<v Speaker 1>in three?

1199
01:07:35.039 --> 01:07:37.679
<v Speaker 2>Right? I thought we were doing move but okay we're

1200
01:07:38.440 --> 01:07:40.000
<v Speaker 2>move's next? Right?

1201
01:07:40.039 --> 01:07:49.559
<v Speaker 1>Okay? The confused put me off, let me fry right basically,

1202
01:07:49.639 --> 01:07:51.039
<v Speaker 1>so yeah, you'd have to get me on that. I'd

1203
01:07:51.039 --> 01:07:52.840
<v Speaker 1>have to do. But reach But so basically going back

1204
01:07:52.880 --> 01:07:56.000
<v Speaker 1>to that. So the confusion in your mind really is

1205
01:07:56.039 --> 01:07:58.480
<v Speaker 1>what I'm trying to say. It's all over the place,

1206
01:07:58.639 --> 01:08:03.280
<v Speaker 1>it's everywhere, and people try to escape that. But it's

1207
01:08:03.320 --> 01:08:06.079
<v Speaker 1>not that you're trying to escape confusion. What you've got

1208
01:08:06.119 --> 01:08:09.480
<v Speaker 1>to do is float through confusion. You're not like, don't

1209
01:08:09.519 --> 01:08:12.159
<v Speaker 1>isolate yourself from the world. A lot of people do monasteries.

1210
01:08:12.199 --> 01:08:16.000
<v Speaker 1>They're like, let's isolate ourselves, let's do this. But actually,

1211
01:08:16.359 --> 01:08:19.760
<v Speaker 1>you're meant to be zen and the Budda is meant

1212
01:08:19.760 --> 01:08:23.640
<v Speaker 1>to be inside of society. Why if you become a

1213
01:08:23.680 --> 01:08:26.399
<v Speaker 1>hermit outside of society, all you've done is made your

1214
01:08:26.439 --> 01:08:31.000
<v Speaker 1>life easy. What what have you achieved? So they say,

1215
01:08:31.039 --> 01:08:34.920
<v Speaker 1>in enlightenment stages, you become a hermit, and that's only

1216
01:08:34.960 --> 01:08:37.199
<v Speaker 1>the halfway mark. When you die and come back, you've

1217
01:08:37.239 --> 01:08:39.920
<v Speaker 1>got to get back into society. So at the minute,

1218
01:08:40.119 --> 01:08:44.159
<v Speaker 1>I cannot stand going out to society. It's really I've

1219
01:08:44.199 --> 01:08:46.439
<v Speaker 1>got all these things go in my head. Samurai this,

1220
01:08:46.600 --> 01:08:48.920
<v Speaker 1>Ninja that, and somebody is saying, oh, did you watch

1221
01:08:48.960 --> 01:08:51.520
<v Speaker 1>the football. No, I did not watch the football, and

1222
01:08:51.560 --> 01:08:52.439
<v Speaker 1>I do not care.

1223
01:08:53.279 --> 01:08:54.920
<v Speaker 2>I was quite meditating.

1224
01:08:56.039 --> 01:08:58.960
<v Speaker 1>I was having a jolly time. So but The question

1225
01:08:59.119 --> 01:09:01.319
<v Speaker 1>becomes is when when you the confusion out there in

1226
01:09:01.319 --> 01:09:03.560
<v Speaker 1>the world, when you go back into society, when you

1227
01:09:03.600 --> 01:09:06.880
<v Speaker 1>pass that half way mark, you will speak about football

1228
01:09:06.920 --> 01:09:08.840
<v Speaker 1>for ten hours and not be stressed about it, and

1229
01:09:08.880 --> 01:09:11.439
<v Speaker 1>you hate it, but you're like, that's wonderful you tell

1230
01:09:11.479 --> 01:09:14.119
<v Speaker 1>me about that football. I don't mind listening. I have

1231
01:09:14.199 --> 01:09:17.720
<v Speaker 1>got an easy going, amazing.

1232
01:09:18.079 --> 01:09:20.319
<v Speaker 2>The final one is, and this is an interesting one,

1233
01:09:20.439 --> 01:09:25.680
<v Speaker 2>is it's a less than fifty seven, which is discovering wo.

1234
01:09:26.880 --> 01:09:29.479
<v Speaker 1>Right. Moo is a concept which comes out of China

1235
01:09:29.880 --> 01:09:33.520
<v Speaker 1>and it we especially for anyone who meditates out there

1236
01:09:33.520 --> 01:09:36.119
<v Speaker 1>and does all the meditation. You often hear how many

1237
01:09:36.119 --> 01:09:38.479
<v Speaker 1>times have you read in a book no mind? They

1238
01:09:38.479 --> 01:09:41.279
<v Speaker 1>don't tell you the jap just saying no mind, no form.

1239
01:09:41.520 --> 01:09:45.239
<v Speaker 1>Know this and it's such a bad translation. So moo

1240
01:09:45.840 --> 01:09:50.800
<v Speaker 1>means absence, not no, so the absence of something. The

1241
01:09:50.840 --> 01:09:53.239
<v Speaker 1>best way to explain this is an apple on an

1242
01:09:53.239 --> 01:09:56.359
<v Speaker 1>apple tree. Right, an apple on an apple tree is

1243
01:09:56.439 --> 01:10:01.600
<v Speaker 1>only there from about July to September. It is not there.

1244
01:10:01.640 --> 01:10:03.399
<v Speaker 1>If you go there in January, the apple's not there.

1245
01:10:03.399 --> 01:10:05.640
<v Speaker 1>If you go there in March, is not there. But

1246
01:10:05.760 --> 01:10:08.840
<v Speaker 1>you know that apple is going to be there. That

1247
01:10:09.000 --> 01:10:11.640
<v Speaker 1>is the state of moo. If you open up the tree,

1248
01:10:12.239 --> 01:10:14.600
<v Speaker 1>the tree has no apples inside of it. It doesn't

1249
01:10:14.640 --> 01:10:17.760
<v Speaker 1>suddenly you open it. There's like a stock of fifty apples.

1250
01:10:18.319 --> 01:10:21.800
<v Speaker 1>All there is is the idea of the apple inside

1251
01:10:21.840 --> 01:10:25.800
<v Speaker 1>of that idea. So when you're talking, when you're doing anything,

1252
01:10:25.880 --> 01:10:29.319
<v Speaker 1>you're going constantly in and out of moo and which

1253
01:10:29.359 --> 01:10:33.039
<v Speaker 1>is called ooh, which is existence and non existence constantly.

1254
01:10:33.239 --> 01:10:35.680
<v Speaker 1>So your thought comes in I'm going to reach for

1255
01:10:35.760 --> 01:10:37.640
<v Speaker 1>a kind of coke, and you reach for a kind

1256
01:10:37.680 --> 01:10:39.920
<v Speaker 1>of coke, But before you reach for that kind of coke,

1257
01:10:40.119 --> 01:10:42.439
<v Speaker 1>it's in a state of moo. So there's a rhythm

1258
01:10:42.479 --> 01:10:46.119
<v Speaker 1>that goes in life in that moo and that absence.

1259
01:10:46.600 --> 01:10:49.600
<v Speaker 1>And what you're trying to do with that is what

1260
01:10:49.640 --> 01:10:53.399
<v Speaker 1>you're trying to do is reach deep down and stop

1261
01:10:53.439 --> 01:10:56.920
<v Speaker 1>your chattery mind going on a ticket and then just

1262
01:10:56.960 --> 01:10:59.560
<v Speaker 1>go back into that stage where it's not come out yet.

1263
01:10:59.680 --> 01:11:01.960
<v Speaker 1>You're thoughts are not rushing out, you're not throwing him

1264
01:11:01.960 --> 01:11:04.800
<v Speaker 1>into the world. You exist inside of that where it

1265
01:11:04.880 --> 01:11:09.399
<v Speaker 1>isn't quite there yet, and relax. And this is where

1266
01:11:09.520 --> 01:11:12.960
<v Speaker 1>subconscious and so in the best way I can explain

1267
01:11:13.000 --> 01:11:16.439
<v Speaker 1>it for is tennis. Tennis's one. Tennis players don't go

1268
01:11:16.479 --> 01:11:18.479
<v Speaker 1>in and go, oh, the balls coming from this angle

1269
01:11:18.640 --> 01:11:21.560
<v Speaker 1>or that's a seventy five degree angle, you would instantly

1270
01:11:22.000 --> 01:11:24.880
<v Speaker 1>to be defeated. They just go click click, click, click click,

1271
01:11:25.039 --> 01:11:28.680
<v Speaker 1>and it's perfect. Yeah, And that's why they say no

1272
01:11:29.039 --> 01:11:33.000
<v Speaker 1>form inside of form. So a tennis players going ah ah,

1273
01:11:33.039 --> 01:11:36.199
<v Speaker 1>and he's reaching and he's been dramatic. But how many

1274
01:11:36.279 --> 01:11:38.159
<v Speaker 1>thousands of hours did it take for him to have

1275
01:11:38.239 --> 01:11:42.800
<v Speaker 1>those reflexes? Thousands of hours because he lives in the

1276
01:11:42.840 --> 01:11:45.560
<v Speaker 1>state of moo. And that's what we should be trying

1277
01:11:45.600 --> 01:11:48.640
<v Speaker 1>to find, is this state of moo, this living inside

1278
01:11:48.720 --> 01:11:52.399
<v Speaker 1>a flowing world. And this is where the embrace of

1279
01:11:52.439 --> 01:11:54.439
<v Speaker 1>the confusion comes in. Is like don't don't, don't be

1280
01:11:54.520 --> 01:11:56.439
<v Speaker 1>like oh this and that and I'll think about that.

1281
01:11:56.720 --> 01:11:59.680
<v Speaker 1>Just flow through it. And the one of the examples

1282
01:11:59.680 --> 01:12:02.319
<v Speaker 1>they give in ancient Japanese texts is like a ball

1283
01:12:02.399 --> 01:12:04.680
<v Speaker 1>on the ocean. If there's a ball on the ocean

1284
01:12:04.680 --> 01:12:06.680
<v Speaker 1>and you try and grab it, it forever pushes and

1285
01:12:06.720 --> 01:12:09.199
<v Speaker 1>goes on the waist. If you're splashing around, the ball

1286
01:12:09.239 --> 01:12:11.319
<v Speaker 1>doesn't go on it just just pops around like that.

1287
01:12:11.880 --> 01:12:15.279
<v Speaker 1>So everything's confusion underneath, but it just exists inside of

1288
01:12:15.359 --> 01:12:16.119
<v Speaker 1>MEU like this.

1289
01:12:16.720 --> 01:12:19.880
<v Speaker 2>Wow, the books calls in in the Samurai sword. My

1290
01:12:19.920 --> 01:12:24.600
<v Speaker 2>guest today has been Anthony Cammens. You're so passionate about this.

1291
01:12:24.640 --> 01:12:27.079
<v Speaker 2>It's amazing. You know, I can see why you're ripping

1292
01:12:27.079 --> 01:12:31.520
<v Speaker 2>out books every year or two. How can people learn

1293
01:12:31.520 --> 01:12:33.239
<v Speaker 2>more about you? Do you have a YouTube channel?

1294
01:12:34.760 --> 01:12:36.640
<v Speaker 1>So what I would say to everyone the best thing

1295
01:12:36.720 --> 01:12:39.720
<v Speaker 1>to do is search on YouTube. Just search for the

1296
01:12:39.920 --> 01:12:43.319
<v Speaker 1>man who Killed the Ninja. I did a mini documentary

1297
01:12:43.359 --> 01:12:45.279
<v Speaker 1>called the Man who Killed the Ninja, and that will

1298
01:12:45.279 --> 01:12:47.600
<v Speaker 1>bring you to my channel and you can watch it

1299
01:12:47.640 --> 01:12:49.479
<v Speaker 1>and you can find out exactly what I do.

1300
01:12:49.960 --> 01:12:53.520
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, exactly okay, And your books are easily to get you.

1301
01:12:53.800 --> 01:12:57.000
<v Speaker 2>Watkins is a major publisher in England, so that means

1302
01:12:57.000 --> 01:13:00.359
<v Speaker 2>that you can get it on Amazon without a problem.

1303
01:13:00.880 --> 01:13:07.880
<v Speaker 2>Do you have like, uh lessons where you're actually teaching

1304
01:13:08.000 --> 01:13:10.600
<v Speaker 2>from the book or do you prefer the reader just

1305
01:13:10.920 --> 01:13:14.079
<v Speaker 2>take and interpret it in their own manner? I mean

1306
01:13:15.079 --> 01:13:17.880
<v Speaker 2>right or wrong way to go about reading your material?

1307
01:13:18.640 --> 01:13:20.880
<v Speaker 1>No, no, not at all, Not at all, keeping I

1308
01:13:20.920 --> 01:13:24.199
<v Speaker 1>would say, so it depends on what you're what the

1309
01:13:24.279 --> 01:13:26.479
<v Speaker 1>reader wants. If the reader wants a history of Japan.

1310
01:13:26.560 --> 01:13:28.479
<v Speaker 1>I have specifically got a series of books and I

1311
01:13:28.479 --> 01:13:31.399
<v Speaker 1>can do you know that, but if you want, if

1312
01:13:31.439 --> 01:13:34.560
<v Speaker 1>you just want the philosophical side, I would start with

1313
01:13:34.600 --> 01:13:36.199
<v Speaker 1>how to be a Modern Samurai and then Zen in

1314
01:13:36.239 --> 01:13:38.399
<v Speaker 1>the Samurai saw It and just read them and get

1315
01:13:38.439 --> 01:13:41.479
<v Speaker 1>them deep down my channel. I do talk about that,

1316
01:13:41.520 --> 01:13:45.159
<v Speaker 1>but it's about eighty percent history and about twenty percent philosophy,

1317
01:13:45.479 --> 01:13:47.399
<v Speaker 1>so you know, you have to be aware of that.

1318
01:13:47.640 --> 01:13:51.439
<v Speaker 1>This is my way of a getting people to really

1319
01:13:51.479 --> 01:13:54.920
<v Speaker 1>understand the Samurai. Basically, the samurai not popular anymore, and

1320
01:13:54.960 --> 01:13:57.039
<v Speaker 1>because of films like you know, the Last Summari, it's

1321
01:13:57.079 --> 01:14:01.960
<v Speaker 1>become cheesy. So my idea is let's recapture that samurai enthusiasm,

1322
01:14:02.039 --> 01:14:02.840
<v Speaker 1>go back to it.

1323
01:14:03.840 --> 01:14:06.960
<v Speaker 2>Anthony, A real pleasure having you on the program. Continue success,

1324
01:14:07.039 --> 01:14:10.920
<v Speaker 2>and I really appreciate you spending some time with me today.

1325
01:14:12.000 --> 01:14:13.720
<v Speaker 1>Thank you so much on a wonderful time.

1326
01:14:23.119 --> 01:14:25.760
<v Speaker 2>This book is also narrated, so if you want to

1327
01:14:25.760 --> 01:14:29.600
<v Speaker 2>get Zen in the Samurai Sword, he has narrated all

1328
01:14:29.640 --> 01:14:33.119
<v Speaker 2>the lessons, one hundred lessons in this new book. It's

1329
01:14:33.319 --> 01:14:38.279
<v Speaker 2>Zen in the Samurai Sword Japanese Warrior Techniques for Agility,

1330
01:14:38.359 --> 01:14:42.159
<v Speaker 2>clarity and calm. I don't know, and I looked at

1331
01:14:42.199 --> 01:14:44.279
<v Speaker 2>a little bit off. The meditation parts of it are

1332
01:14:44.319 --> 01:14:47.560
<v Speaker 2>pretty cool, actually, I like that, and he made some

1333
01:14:47.680 --> 01:14:54.399
<v Speaker 2>very good points. The Japanese are very exacting, very traditional

1334
01:14:55.119 --> 01:14:58.800
<v Speaker 2>in their meditative techniques as well as everything else, and

1335
01:14:58.960 --> 01:15:04.399
<v Speaker 2>maybe a little too formal for an American. I learned

1336
01:15:05.199 --> 01:15:11.439
<v Speaker 2>my transtdental meditation in a weekend, in three days, really,

1337
01:15:12.319 --> 01:15:15.640
<v Speaker 2>and then had follow ups after that. I don't know

1338
01:15:15.760 --> 01:15:19.880
<v Speaker 2>if I could have sat and done months or even

1339
01:15:20.039 --> 01:15:24.560
<v Speaker 2>years of practice before learning it. It was so simple.

1340
01:15:25.680 --> 01:15:28.600
<v Speaker 2>I haven't really talked about the experience I had. It

1341
01:15:28.680 --> 01:15:35.079
<v Speaker 2>was a school in Palo Alto, California, and I was

1342
01:15:35.119 --> 01:15:39.800
<v Speaker 2>only eighteen, and it was developed by the Maharishi Meshyogi,

1343
01:15:39.880 --> 01:15:46.760
<v Speaker 2>who understood the impatience of Americans and developed this twenty

1344
01:15:46.800 --> 01:15:51.079
<v Speaker 2>minute system which drops you down to a deep data level,

1345
01:15:51.560 --> 01:15:55.760
<v Speaker 2>almost like sleep, but deeper, but you're completely aware.

1346
01:15:56.560 --> 01:15:57.359
<v Speaker 1>And in that.

1347
01:15:59.319 --> 01:16:04.920
<v Speaker 2>Meditative date, you relax for twenty minutes and then you

1348
01:16:04.960 --> 01:16:09.119
<v Speaker 2>slowly come out of it, and what tremendous healing takes

1349
01:16:09.159 --> 01:16:13.880
<v Speaker 2>place and you reset, You reset for the morning, and

1350
01:16:13.920 --> 01:16:18.279
<v Speaker 2>you reset for the afternoon evening, and oh my god,

1351
01:16:18.479 --> 01:16:21.000
<v Speaker 2>I don't know I'd be a different person if I

1352
01:16:21.439 --> 01:16:26.479
<v Speaker 2>hadn't learned a meditative technique. So the Zen meditation may

1353
01:16:26.520 --> 01:16:30.760
<v Speaker 2>be something that people like my cousin took a Zen

1354
01:16:32.039 --> 01:16:34.439
<v Speaker 2>course and he said it was really good. He is

1355
01:16:34.520 --> 01:16:38.560
<v Speaker 2>an emergency room physician, he says, he, I mean, he

1356
01:16:38.840 --> 01:16:43.600
<v Speaker 2>swears by his meditative technique. He's in Santa Cruz, so

1357
01:16:43.920 --> 01:16:46.079
<v Speaker 2>you know, everybody's different. So check that out. Zen and

1358
01:16:46.119 --> 01:16:50.840
<v Speaker 2>the Samurai Sword. And by the way, Anthony's got just

1359
01:16:51.119 --> 01:16:53.640
<v Speaker 2>tons of video. You can see him on YouTube. It's

1360
01:16:53.640 --> 01:16:57.359
<v Speaker 2>all free. And also you look up Anthony Cummins his

1361
01:16:58.000 --> 01:17:03.439
<v Speaker 2>see umm s Antony is a nt O n Y

1362
01:17:04.399 --> 01:17:10.359
<v Speaker 2>Anthony Cummins and he's involved in numerous interviews because he's

1363
01:17:10.399 --> 01:17:14.199
<v Speaker 2>been doing this for years. And I mentioned at the

1364
01:17:14.239 --> 01:17:18.520
<v Speaker 2>very beginning this is the tenth book in this series,

1365
01:17:18.640 --> 01:17:24.439
<v Speaker 2>the Samurai series, so fascinating and really what a outstanding

1366
01:17:24.560 --> 01:17:28.479
<v Speaker 2>interview someone who's very passionate obviously in his work. So

1367
01:17:28.880 --> 01:17:33.479
<v Speaker 2>I hope you enjoyed that. Hey, listen, we have our

1368
01:17:33.600 --> 01:17:36.560
<v Speaker 2>first tour of the year. It's our seventh annual Grand

1369
01:17:36.600 --> 01:17:40.000
<v Speaker 2>Egyptian Tour April twenty eight through May tenth. This is

1370
01:17:40.840 --> 01:17:43.239
<v Speaker 2>really I'm excited about this. This is a megalithic tour

1371
01:17:43.239 --> 01:17:47.399
<v Speaker 2>because we have designed the itinerary to see very old,

1372
01:17:48.039 --> 01:17:52.840
<v Speaker 2>rarely visited sites up and down the Nile, and it

1373
01:17:52.880 --> 01:17:55.840
<v Speaker 2>is a fabulous tour. For all the details and information

1374
01:17:55.920 --> 01:17:59.960
<v Speaker 2>go to Earthacents dot com forward slash Tours. You'll see

1375
01:18:00.119 --> 01:18:03.920
<v Speaker 2>the entire itinerary and it is wonderful. I want to

1376
01:18:03.920 --> 01:18:07.680
<v Speaker 2>mention also that most of these tours are extremely expensive,

1377
01:18:07.720 --> 01:18:11.720
<v Speaker 2>and when I say expensively, between ten and twelve thousand dollars,

1378
01:18:11.760 --> 01:18:15.640
<v Speaker 2>ours are left than half that much. It includes all

1379
01:18:15.680 --> 01:18:20.319
<v Speaker 2>your in country flights, all your accommodations, your food, your beverages,

1380
01:18:20.880 --> 01:18:26.119
<v Speaker 2>and access to private tours. And when I say private tours,

1381
01:18:26.520 --> 01:18:29.399
<v Speaker 2>we are not with the general public. We have our

1382
01:18:29.439 --> 01:18:34.960
<v Speaker 2>own access to pyramids, to temples, to sites that are

1383
01:18:35.079 --> 01:18:38.279
<v Speaker 2>up and down the Nile. And it includes a five

1384
01:18:38.319 --> 01:18:42.199
<v Speaker 2>star tour of the Nile in this wonderful cruise ship

1385
01:18:42.399 --> 01:18:46.880
<v Speaker 2>that is just amazing. For all the details and all

1386
01:18:46.920 --> 01:18:50.439
<v Speaker 2>the information, go to Earth Ancients dot com forward slash

1387
01:18:50.520 --> 01:18:53.439
<v Speaker 2>tours check it out. If you have any questions whatsoever,

1388
01:18:53.560 --> 01:18:57.760
<v Speaker 2>go to send me an email. Go to Earth Agents

1389
01:18:57.760 --> 01:18:59.520
<v Speaker 2>to the number four of the letter you at gmail

1390
01:18:59.560 --> 01:19:01.920
<v Speaker 2>dot com and let me know what's going on. I'll

1391
01:19:01.920 --> 01:19:05.840
<v Speaker 2>be happy to answer your questions. All right, that's it

1392
01:19:05.880 --> 01:19:07.479
<v Speaker 2>for this program. I want to think my guest today

1393
01:19:07.520 --> 01:19:11.239
<v Speaker 2>Anthony Cummins and his new books In and the Samurai Sword,

1394
01:19:11.359 --> 01:19:14.039
<v Speaker 2>coming to us from England. As always, the team of

1395
01:19:14.079 --> 01:19:20.760
<v Speaker 2>Gail tour, Mark Foster and Faya Pavar. You guys rock

1396
01:19:21.600 --> 01:19:23.560
<v Speaker 2>all right, take care of you well and we'll talk

1397
01:19:23.600 --> 01:20:06.159
<v Speaker 2>to you next time. The Conduct