Speaker 1: Hey folks, good evening. Welcome to you all wherever you're
Speaker 1: listening from. My name is calu Aja. Welcome to the
Speaker 1: money space with me.
Speaker 2: On this space, we're.
Speaker 1: Talking money, we're talking to the economy, we're talking personal finance.
Speaker 1: And this week we're talking what a great topic is
Speaker 1: Nigeria entering a debt trap. Right, so just before we start, guys,
Speaker 1: just make a statement. When we hold our spaces and
Speaker 1: almost you guys know me on Twitter, right, when we
Speaker 1: hold our spaces, we aim to inform. We aim to
Speaker 1: equip the listener with the fact fact only every time
Speaker 1: I have a space.
Speaker 2: Remember I'm hosting a show, so I will.
Speaker 3: Ask questions, to clarify, ask questions as the Devil's advocate.
Speaker 1: It's all to give you that information. But we are
Speaker 1: totally we want to be totally unbiased. We want to
Speaker 1: have all voices heard. We want you to have the facts.
Speaker 1: Then you can have your own opinions. Right, that's what
Speaker 1: we're in to do here. I wanted to give you
Speaker 1: the facts. Don't never you become a better citizen. So
Speaker 1: it's a great topic this week. And of course, if
Speaker 1: you've been pulling this week, this topic has been triggered
Speaker 1: by the request by the present of Nigeria. Well, I've
Speaker 1: BETI to borrow. If you converted what wants to borrow
Speaker 1: to naira, it's about forty five trillion. It's about fifty
Speaker 1: one billion dollars. There's some euros in there. There's also
Speaker 1: some yen in there. There's also some grants in there.
Speaker 1: But if you did a conversion of that figure, that
Speaker 1: won't borrow's going to give about forty five trillion.
Speaker 2: So let's set it up for you. Nigeria.
Speaker 3: Currently, I pulled up our debts and I'm going to
Speaker 3: use the official numbers.
Speaker 1: Right, So the official numbers go as far by as
Speaker 1: December twenty twenty four. I know when in June, but
Speaker 1: this is the official official numbers from the Debt Management Office.
Speaker 2: We're going to use thosebannal numbers.
Speaker 1: We have as a as a December to tween twenty
Speaker 1: four a total extandout death EXTANDALUT debt about forty five
Speaker 1: billion dollars.
Speaker 2: It's actually four or five.
Speaker 3: Seven and eighty minute if you're not count there, actually
Speaker 3: figure it's about forty five billion United States does all
Speaker 3: we have right now? If you look at last year,
Speaker 3: the number itself did not change that much. Last year
Speaker 3: we had about forty two billion, twenty three, forty two billion. Well,
Speaker 3: if you just pick those numbers, you usually wouldn't get
Speaker 3: the sense of where the.
Speaker 2: Change usually coming from.
Speaker 3: Right, So what has made the foreign deaths go up?
Speaker 1: Guys, I'm building a picture for you. Just follow you
Speaker 1: get the picture of the building for you. As a
Speaker 1: twenty twenty four what went up was the eurobonds, eurobones
Speaker 1: went up. Loans from the China Development Bank also went up.
Speaker 1: Then alone from the African Development Bank also went up,
Speaker 1: and of course the bulk of the increase has come
Speaker 1: from the World Bank. Now, when you look at seferating debts,
Speaker 1: it's very important that you separate the volume of the
Speaker 1: debt from the cost of the debt.
Speaker 2: The volume, separate that from the deaths from the cost.
Speaker 1: What I mean is this, right in twenty twenty three,
Speaker 1: the total World Bank, so let's say, the total multilateral debt,
Speaker 1: which is like the World Bank, the African deplum Bank,
Speaker 1: all Islamic, the Balloon Bank, all that sort of death
Speaker 1: was about twenty one billion dollars, about twenty one billion dollars. Right,
Speaker 1: if you come to twenty twenty four, all that debt
Speaker 1: has gonna buy a billion, So what do about twenty
Speaker 1: two billion dollars? And the bulk of that increase has
Speaker 1: come from the World Bank. Again, twenty twenty three, Nigeria
Speaker 1: was doing give or take about if you just move
Speaker 1: the IMF right just from the World Bank, which is
Speaker 1: the IDA and the ib are the the Intentional Bank
Speaker 1: for Reconstructional Development. Weren't about fourhundred million with them, But
Speaker 1: if you come to twenty twenty four, that has ballooned
Speaker 1: up to about one point two. So from four hundred,
Speaker 1: four hundred and eighty five million, we're now.
Speaker 3: Over the World Bank about one point two. And this
Speaker 3: is as that December December twenty twenty four. We've taken
Speaker 3: more loans. We've taken about five hundred million for empowerment.
Speaker 3: We've taken upon that five million for nutrition and all
Speaker 3: that kind of stuff. So this is more than the
Speaker 3: one point to the bulk of the increase that's been
Speaker 3: to the World Bank, because I've really pay because you've
Speaker 3: energized borrowing from.
Speaker 2: The World Bank and all that. The World Bank debts.
Speaker 1: Are really not a problem because the cost of that
Speaker 1: debt is very, very bhy it's like maybe two percent,
Speaker 1: and it's spread over a longer period. Right, So even
Speaker 1: though the volume of that debt has gone up, the
Speaker 1: cost of the debt itself is still that two percent.
Speaker 1: You pay your commitment fee and all that, So not
Speaker 1: a lot going on there. Let's look at eurobon eurobons
Speaker 1: Nigeria was that about fifteen billion europeons considered about twenty
Speaker 1: five percent debt, and we're about fifteen billion as at
Speaker 1: December twenty twenty three. Where are we in December twenty
Speaker 1: twenty four. We've gone up, not down, up to seventeen
Speaker 1: billion and now it makes up thirty seven percent of
Speaker 1: our debt. Guys, this is what the problem is because
Speaker 1: eurobons are the bones that work, but the Wall Street
Speaker 1: gives to you and all that gives you. So it's
Speaker 1: a commercial loans. It's about anywhere from seven percent to
Speaker 1: about eight percent.
Speaker 2: Nigeria is borrowing. Essentially, we're borrowing.
Speaker 1: For thirty years, ten years, fifteen and we're going to
Speaker 1: pay these guys in dollars.
Speaker 3: There is not a beg. It is no development loan
Speaker 3: with a pure commercial note.
Speaker 1: So the problem for Nigeria is this eurobond which make
Speaker 1: about there's ten percent as at December twenty twenty four. Right,
Speaker 1: So I also pulled up the total cost of the debt.
Speaker 1: So I pulled up how much you had in debt
Speaker 1: as a decembenty four and how much we used to
Speaker 1: service it. The average is about ten percent. And we're
Speaker 1: talking dollars now, not my Ira dollars. So we are
Speaker 1: paying for Nigeria ten percent dollars to anyone that owns
Speaker 1: our bonds. That's the average cost of our debt.
Speaker 3: If you're at the World Bank, if you at everybody,
Speaker 3: it's about ten.
Speaker 2: So it's higher, but the average is.
Speaker 1: About ten if you take everything in, so it's ten
Speaker 1: percent a high cost, Yes, it is.
Speaker 2: It's a very very high cost.
Speaker 1: Because when you borrow, you use you borrow livel plus
Speaker 1: there's no more libel, but you borrow based on the
Speaker 1: London Interbank. It has a new name, the name escapes me.
Speaker 1: That's what you or based on. Ten percent is a
Speaker 1: very very high return. Because if you went to the
Speaker 1: United States today and you put money in their banks,
Speaker 1: they will pay you one percent. If you bought a
Speaker 1: US bond, you get about three or four percent. Thats
Speaker 1: a risk free bond.
Speaker 2: By the widow.
Speaker 1: It's the d brissin has come down. If you buy
Speaker 1: a Nigerian bond, they're going to get ten percent. So essentially,
Speaker 1: when you hear that Nigerian bonds were over subscribed, what
Speaker 1: happens that the Americans are taking money from Japan. From
Speaker 1: America Japan is zero percent. You take one at zero percent.
Speaker 1: You come to Nigeria and you buy federal government bonds
Speaker 1: or almost securities and you make six to ten percent.
Speaker 1: So look at the margin in dollars not a dollar terms.
Speaker 1: Then you can go back and cover your risks and
Speaker 1: all that.
Speaker 3: Nigeria is a you see what we'll call it a
Speaker 3: Christmas intelligi international yields.
Speaker 1: We're giving forth a lot of yel to borrow. So
Speaker 1: up lay that picture for you. Let's come out what's
Speaker 1: going on in Nigeria. The present wants to borrow.
Speaker 3: About twenty one billion dollars, about two billion euros and
Speaker 3: a few years here and there about like said, forty
Speaker 3: five trillren when you converted to naira.
Speaker 2: What's the problem. It's too much debt. Remember what I said.
Speaker 1: The total death Nigeria has as a December twenty forty
Speaker 1: last because we have it's forty five, So the present
Speaker 1: wants to borrow fifty percent. About fifty percent of that debt.
Speaker 1: We don't know from where, So we don't know if
Speaker 1: it's going to be eurobonds, what's going to be development
Speaker 1: is We don't know. Until we know, we can do
Speaker 1: a deeper dive. Now, what's the problem. Clearly you can
Speaker 1: tell that if you own the company and you are
Speaker 1: going to borrow that amount of money, your board will say,
Speaker 1: come on, let's let's be let's kind let's slow down.
Speaker 1: What's the money going to be used for? How are
Speaker 1: we going to pay back? When we borrow in naira,
Speaker 1: which is what we've been doing with treasury bills, treasury bonds,
Speaker 1: civils bone, we can print niner pay back if all
Speaker 1: else fails. When you borrow money, it's like a tax increase.
Speaker 1: It's the same thing. Borrowing is faster than taxes. That's
Speaker 1: why government is like to borrow.
Speaker 2: But when you borrow.
Speaker 3: And you increase taxes is the exact same thing. The
Speaker 3: citizens paid the lending.
Speaker 1: The lending, so citizens pay down the debt and the
Speaker 1: citizens also pay taxes. There's no difference. So when you
Speaker 1: want to borrow twenty five billion, right, let's just create
Speaker 1: twenty three billion dollars or forty five trillion.
Speaker 2: Essentially, what you're doing is.
Speaker 1: That you are increasing taxes by forty five trillion NYRA.
Speaker 1: So you see, it's easier to borrow than to increase
Speaker 1: taxes because the citizens do not understand it's the tax.
Speaker 1: They think it's borrowing that they will not pay.
Speaker 2: No, no, no, no.
Speaker 1: The government doesn't pay back loans. Citizens pay back loans.
Speaker 1: Same where the government taxes here, you pay the tax.
Speaker 1: There's no body called government, there's a little someone called citizen.
Speaker 1: So if you go back now we want to borrow
Speaker 1: the forty five trillion, what do we want to use
Speaker 1: it for?
Speaker 2: We don't know.
Speaker 1: We haven't been told. What has been the response of
Speaker 1: the government. The government has said no, no, no, no, hold on,
Speaker 1: we're not borrowing forty five trillion. We're not borrowing to
Speaker 1: the three billion. We are simply saying we want to have.
Speaker 2: The capacity to borrow that.
Speaker 1: If you look at something called the Medium Term Expenditure
Speaker 1: Framework or the whatever it's called, right that you will
Speaker 1: see this borrowing there. It just means that we are
Speaker 1: planning to borrow. Okay, So I went to the medium
Speaker 1: term exponential framework to take a look at it and
Speaker 1: see what's in that framework. In that framework, what it
Speaker 1: is again give you history in the past.
Speaker 3: I think it was under a Passenger's regime. He was
Speaker 3: fighting a lot of it with.
Speaker 1: With they stay because a lot of fight and they
Speaker 1: said he will will just come every year a new
Speaker 1: budget would come there and there'll be a new surprise
Speaker 1: either bid that wanted to bench my prize but want
Speaker 1: to borrow, want to pay back.
Speaker 2: So it's like keep us in an.
Speaker 1: Elongated plan, a physical plan to say, if you want
Speaker 1: to borrow, break it down, let's show what we want
Speaker 1: to do the next two three years. So in some
Speaker 1: reason that's how we got the medium term exponential of framework.
Speaker 2: So the government just can wake.
Speaker 1: Up in a budget cycle and say want to borrow
Speaker 1: a hundred billion, It has to plan that out and say, okay,
Speaker 1: in the next three years, we're going to borrow a
Speaker 1: hundred billion, will borrow thirty, will borrow thirty, will borrow thirty.
Speaker 2: Okay, that's fantastic.
Speaker 1: But if you don't look at the medium term XPoNential
Speaker 1: framework for five the total amount that Nigeria wants to
Speaker 1: borrow is about eight trillion. It's one, two three. But
Speaker 1: right now we're asking for a person to borrow forty
Speaker 1: five trillion, so he doesn't add even if you take
Speaker 1: a rounding error, even if you take inflation, is just
Speaker 1: simply too much to borrow. It's just too much.
Speaker 3: Even if you add up to twenty five and twenty six,
Speaker 3: it's still not up to fifteen billion trillion.
Speaker 1: It's still up to fifteen trillion. If you had both years,
Speaker 1: it's still not fifteen trillion. So why is there a
Speaker 1: big disparity? Simple the exchange rates in the medium term.
Speaker 1: Explain framework. Sorry, lots of information, but just follow. It's
Speaker 1: less than seven hundred dollars. So Nagia had written it's
Speaker 1: in twenty four and said we're going to borrow eight
Speaker 1: trillion and we're going to use less than several hundred
Speaker 1: dollars to one. Then twere to one dollars, So now
Speaker 1: dollar is about sixteen hundred.
Speaker 2: So call it the entire medium ten. Just be sure.
Speaker 2: Framework no longer can stand under in its scrutiny. It
Speaker 2: is outdated.
Speaker 1: It's got seven hundred that space it's actually six ninety nine,
Speaker 1: but it's updated. We're now at fifteen hundred, sixteen hundred dollars.
Speaker 2: That's not one inflation. Everything is off the charts. So
Speaker 2: what should the government do when you want to borrow money?
Speaker 1: I come to your plan in twenty twenty four, but
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty five, your currency has appreciated, your implation
Speaker 1: has gone up, and you can no longer borrow. Same
Speaker 1: way if I ask you a question, Let's say you
Speaker 1: plan to buy two Rolls Roys in twenty twenty four
Speaker 1: because you were expecting to end dollars, and then twent
Speaker 1: twenty five came. The dollars you were explained to end
Speaker 1: no longer came.
Speaker 2: What would you do? Would you go and borrow.
Speaker 1: Going to buy two rolls Roys, or would you say, Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm going to gonna buy Toyota. I don't have many
Speaker 1: focials anymore. I'll simply buy a Toyota. In Nineteeriaki Nageria said,
Speaker 1: We're not only going to buy the two rules reds,
Speaker 1: We're gonna add two more rolls Roys. We're gonna buy
Speaker 1: four brand new rule stress and I'm going to fund
Speaker 1: this for many rules rights who are going to borrow.
Speaker 1: That's what's going on here guys. So let me give
Speaker 1: you my last start. I said, some guys want to speak, right,
Speaker 1: and I'll want you guys to speak and come back
Speaker 1: on me.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 2: This is my last start.
Speaker 3: Let's look at actuals now, because I'm giving you twent
Speaker 3: twenty four, I'm giving you twenty three projection. So let's
Speaker 3: go back to the time when Nigeria actually spend money
Speaker 3: on broadmen.
Speaker 2: I see what was the result.
Speaker 1: Let's compare with oil prices and then see what we
Speaker 1: can tell them that.
Speaker 2: So I pulled up twenty to twenty three.
Speaker 1: This is the actual now actual in twenty twenty three,
Speaker 1: Nigeria said we're going to spend at the oil price. Right,
Speaker 1: what going to borrow was about seventy five dollars a barrel?
Speaker 1: Just that's what it said. That oil price is not
Speaker 1: only just it's a free In twenty twenty three, forget
Speaker 1: what they said. In twenty twenty three, the oil price
Speaker 1: on average was eighteen So twenty twenty three, follow the
Speaker 1: oil price on average was eighty one dollars. What was
Speaker 1: not just output, just output was one point three million
Speaker 1: barrels per day. What's our output today about one point
Speaker 1: four one point five what oil price today about sixty five.
Speaker 1: So remember in twenty twenty three the average oil price
Speaker 1: was eighty one dollars, but an output of one point
Speaker 1: three three. Okay, with these numbers, what do you think
Speaker 1: was the total revenue, no deductions, none.
Speaker 2: That Nigeria made from crude oil? No deduction? Was a
Speaker 2: total amount of money that you made from.
Speaker 3: Crude oil when the oil prize were eighty one dollars
Speaker 3: barrel and output was one point three Guys, we made
Speaker 3: about five point five trillion, no deductions.
Speaker 2: So not paid fifty percent to Shell and the joint venture. Guys.
Speaker 1: Just the total our character taming is five point five trillion.
Speaker 1: It's not a lot of money. The point I'm making
Speaker 1: us all these projections of forty five trillion borrowing is
Speaker 1: based on selling oil at seventy five dollars and two
Speaker 1: million barrels. But I'm sure you guys are in twenteeny three,
Speaker 1: when we actually sold one point trillion barrels a day
Speaker 1: at eighty one dollars, we got less than six trillion.
Speaker 1: We got less than six trillion, which is less than
Speaker 1: what's in the midium term frame work for twenty five,
Speaker 1: which is if you take sixtillion. Multiply by forty five.
Speaker 3: This is almost five or six times what we want
Speaker 3: to borrow or what wanted. The license to borrow doesn't
Speaker 3: make any sense. The government can't tell Nigerians, Oh, you
Speaker 3: don't understand what we're doing. We're not going to borrow
Speaker 3: twenty two billion dollars. If you're not going to borrow it,
Speaker 3: why did you write a letter to the Assembly and
Speaker 3: get the red your right to the Assembly to get
Speaker 3: permission to spend money. That's why letter better letter to get.
Speaker 1: Permission to borrow and spend, because the National Assembly can
Speaker 1: give the President the powers to borrow and spend. Remember
Speaker 1: Harry printed twenty three trillion without permission for National Assembly.
Speaker 2: What happened in the end he had to go back
Speaker 2: to National.
Speaker 3: Assembly and get those that borrowing the ways and means
Speaker 3: converted to a bond which sits in our bond piece today.
Speaker 3: That's why we're forty five billion because we've converted to
Speaker 3: Harry's printing waison means two.
Speaker 1: Death bonds, which you are and I and our kids
Speaker 1: that don't pay. So if you're going to borrow, why
Speaker 1: are you writing to National Assembly? Doesn't spass a snall test.
Speaker 1: I've given you guys too much data. Let me hear
Speaker 1: you that. After all, you've got the floor. Sut what
Speaker 1: you I mean, I've tried to There's a lot I
Speaker 1: could see on this. I would want to just flood
Speaker 1: the space with numbers. But what's your ticket?
Speaker 2: What's good? Are we in the death track?
Speaker 5: I calibor, Harry, I can, I can?
Speaker 2: I can hear you, So go ahead.
Speaker 5: Yeah, so let's again get to it. It's you kind
Speaker 5: of covered that into the picture. I think I'll just
Speaker 5: go to your question.
Speaker 4: We are.
Speaker 5: Most people assume we are approached, if not very close.
Speaker 6: I personally think we're already there, and I'll just I'll
Speaker 6: give you us a quick reason.
Speaker 5: Twenty twenty four any ending of twenty.
Speaker 7: Twenty four our.
Speaker 6: That's servicing the sense of the confessional that everything was around.
Speaker 8: Of approximately generally speaking, you were and it was a
Speaker 8: death trap. When you are getting out of forty five percent,
Speaker 8: that's you're getting your your forty five you're in the
Speaker 8: depth trap.
Speaker 5: Now, But that is that was at seventy three dollars
Speaker 5: a barrow at the time.
Speaker 6: This is before all the at least the last six months,
Speaker 6: the World Bank requests have come in the dollar, the.
Speaker 9: Dollar bond and the rest.
Speaker 10: So I assume I guess one of the official figures.
Speaker 10: We are already above twenty, so already close. But in
Speaker 10: this whole discussion, most people do factor an NPC a
Speaker 10: standing them one hundred and fifty three trilling and that
Speaker 10: is official officially.
Speaker 6: With this investigations, it's suspected to be more because then
Speaker 6: he had had one a series of deals. They have
Speaker 6: multiple subsidutions scattered across the globe.
Speaker 5: Then that's their internal general operations.
Speaker 11: Since Carrier left, Carrier there is highly suspected to be
Speaker 11: much larger than the States, and it's not. It's not
Speaker 11: mutually exclusive because nnpc's debt directly the first the ability
Speaker 11: to contribute to the federalal.
Speaker 5: The primary the primary base for our revenue.
Speaker 6: So if we are already close just looking at Nigeria's
Speaker 6: current depth standing the percentage of the.
Speaker 5: Already there factoring in a NBC. From my perspective, well,
Speaker 5: well is that.
Speaker 6: It's just and the oil prices is the thicker because
Speaker 6: if if, if, if geopolitical sense was down a bit,
Speaker 6: let's assume things get worst case SCENARIOIL, it is.
Speaker 2: Only going to continue to go down.
Speaker 8: Unless it Israel bombs around tomorrow that might that might
Speaker 8: spike thing as well.
Speaker 5: But why is it we're not going to.
Speaker 12: Get to the eighty dollars seventy five dollars or very unlikely.
Speaker 5: And there's not not any review it would be sustained.
Speaker 5: So it's just answer the question.
Speaker 6: I think we're either already there and the.
Speaker 5: Metrics just have to catch up. We're very close, and
Speaker 5: this is the latest request if in any if it's
Speaker 5: well I don't expect with.
Speaker 8: Robert Stamps and is that they are ready pushed back
Speaker 8: lys requests more than likely that.
Speaker 5: It's a good point.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because that's I mean.
Speaker 5: We can go into all aspects. But just answer your question.
Speaker 6: I think we were we are very close or already there.
Speaker 3: And folks asking what is it trap that you understand?
Speaker 3: What is it in nomer? So let me give it
Speaker 3: dismissed for trap. It doesn't come to your well. And
Speaker 3: when she was Minister of.
Speaker 1: Finance when she negatility the parents that I believe she
Speaker 1: was seeing at the actual amount that was borrowed by
Speaker 1: night year was about five billion. The total amount that
Speaker 1: was actually borrowed on five or seven billion. What we
Speaker 1: owe them was forty four billion, So what's the different
Speaker 1: interest on interest negative amortization finds that I capitalized. So
Speaker 1: when you have a debt that it is impossible to
Speaker 1: get out of because the cost of something that debt.
Speaker 2: It's just you.
Speaker 1: You can only says it does pay the interest, but
Speaker 1: you can't pay the principle.
Speaker 3: That's a debt trap. So you see it both times.
Speaker 3: When you have this word called payday loans. Maybe you
Speaker 3: eard one hundred nira.
Speaker 1: Then someone says I'll give you an advance on your salary,
Speaker 1: but you will give me your salary when it comes.
Speaker 2: You say, okay.
Speaker 1: So the guy gives you fifty ira, but that adding
Speaker 1: you fifty percent. So in essence, when you get your
Speaker 1: next paycheck, he takes fifty dollars fifty niner er from
Speaker 1: your paycheck. How do you survive? You go back to
Speaker 1: him and say, I want to borrow on that fifteen
Speaker 1: nine er he gives you. Now you're on in one
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty, you give him seventy five. You can
Speaker 1: never pay him as principal, you are just taking real
Speaker 1: financing that loan to survive. Switce NYDERA has death servicing
Speaker 1: as our number one expense item what we pay the
Speaker 1: service debt is what I will pay for education, defense.
Speaker 1: Come bind. That's the point. You can't get out of it.
Speaker 1: You're making money for Wall Street. That's what everybody is saying.
Speaker 1: If n NPC is.
Speaker 3: Every bone number is a one nineteen trillion, one hund
Speaker 3: three one hundred and fifty three trillion has already been
Speaker 3: logged in by n NPC.
Speaker 1: This is an off balance sheet or in NIER will
Speaker 1: call it an off fack debt. When NPC owes money,
Speaker 1: what means to you is that they don't contribute. Going
Speaker 1: to fuck, So you are paying.
Speaker 3: You are subsidizing any pcy because NPC should payble to
Speaker 3: the fuck.
Speaker 2: The government takes that fuck and pays does your roads.
Speaker 1: But in this sense, NNPC is not contributing one hundred
Speaker 1: and fifty three too fark, So you are paying in taxes.
Speaker 2: That's what's going on.
Speaker 1: So when you then add this to forty five trillion,
Speaker 1: and remember this is in dollars. Anything is growing in dollars,
Speaker 1: we're borrowing in dollars. How do you pay back?
Speaker 3: I don't give you, guys the figures when oil prices
Speaker 3: were at eighty one or so.
Speaker 1: We only end five trillion. It's not a lot of money.
Speaker 1: This oil is not a lot of money. We have
Speaker 1: too many people in Nigeria and we share forty or
Speaker 1: said to the oil majors.
Speaker 3: So I think thanks for that background, let me get
Speaker 3: see you. Yeah, go ahead, I just answered.
Speaker 11: Another major concern is that the n NPC's.
Speaker 5: Loans are not as transparent as the in terms.
Speaker 11: Of nmpc's loans are not the directing the public, which
Speaker 11: is something to concern.
Speaker 5: And again just just a.
Speaker 7: Reminder that.
Speaker 5: Is the best.
Speaker 6: That is what is publicly not there is suspicion that
Speaker 6: is significant, maybe not significantly.
Speaker 7: It might be higher than that.
Speaker 2: And they're doing forward sales. So n NPC sells oil.
Speaker 1: The money goes to the lend to the lender, the
Speaker 1: lender takes his his payment and then sends an ny
Speaker 1: pc of the balance. So what you might see is
Speaker 1: that we sell oil and not making any money, you know.
Speaker 1: But I refer for the last two or three years
Speaker 1: and it had not done any remittance to the CBN.
Speaker 1: JP Morgan wrote that more to set report what I said,
Speaker 1: Nigera was the only oil exporting nation only that had
Speaker 1: not taken advantage of the rising oil prices because people
Speaker 1: keeps oil seals for most of the oil countries on Earth.
Speaker 1: Right this said Nigeria was the only country on Earth
Speaker 1: that oil prices had gone up and we had not
Speaker 1: increased our rappeens in the periods are coming to JP Morgan,
Speaker 1: this was gonna happen. So even if oil prices go
Speaker 1: up or down, if you are paid too much basic,
Speaker 1: it's not gonna wun to fuck. If money doesn't come
Speaker 1: to fuck, your miror is going to fall. It's it's
Speaker 1: not it's it's Matt.
Speaker 3: Your nera is a derivative of Brent crude oil. Your
Speaker 3: nera if brent'screwde goes up, never goes up. So if
Speaker 3: you keep on borrowing in dollars, you are taking more
Speaker 3: of that nera to attach to that breastprud living the
Speaker 3: error no support, but business are connected. You can't remember
Speaker 3: the tax increase when you borrow is a tax increase?
Speaker 3: See you what your mind sir? You've had what's to
Speaker 3: talking about? What you think?
Speaker 9: Yeah?
Speaker 13: Yeah, thank you can for giving me the opportunity to
Speaker 13: speak once gain Your insights are very informative and everybody
Speaker 13: what you talked about as well can you hear.
Speaker 2: Me, yes, I can clearly, Okay.
Speaker 14: So I want to come from this your position into
Speaker 14: in a more balanced here because.
Speaker 5: I also look at the negatives and look at the positive.
Speaker 14: So first of all, I want to remind people that
Speaker 14: you know, we should remember that you know that deficits
Speaker 14: are not bad things. You know, if you look at
Speaker 14: the periods from nineteen ninety seven two thousand and seven,
Speaker 14: most of the G seven round economies.
Speaker 5: Around large deficits.
Speaker 15: Why is that so because during that period, if you
Speaker 15: look at the business cycle, you are in this period
Speaker 15: and every time a country in the boss period, you're
Speaker 15: going to see that government needs to post a good demand.
Speaker 13: So that by busting an argued demand, you see that
Speaker 13: deathy spending goes up. Now, the issue with Nigeria, and
Speaker 13: you know talking about disopening is when I when I
Speaker 13: say that that's and desks aren't really a bad thing,
Speaker 13: you have to look.
Speaker 5: At it from three.
Speaker 14: Is an economic An economic machine is driven by three
Speaker 14: main fasts.
Speaker 5: Population growth Nigeria is a tonal the Indiana and what
Speaker 5: we call productivity growth.
Speaker 14: And also leverage what we also call you know, government spending,
Speaker 14: government expenditure. Now, the issue is that if you use productivity,
Speaker 14: growth and economy, you generally groom to see that you
Speaker 14: can increasingly play growth, but at a slower piece. Now,
Speaker 14: why most countries in the global most in Nigeria addicted
Speaker 14: to this leverage spending, is because if you're able to reach,
Speaker 14: you're able to hit economic growth at a much faster pace.
Speaker 2: But the issue with you know, this long.
Speaker 13: Term spending is that if you keep borrowing, you if
Speaker 13: you keep borrowing and you keep on financing things that
Speaker 13: are leads.
Speaker 5: Over consumption rather than productive.
Speaker 14: So for example, look at Nigeria's wistful government spending in
Speaker 14: the past, the any DCC projects, the financing of the
Speaker 14: aircrafts and fleets and all these kind of things that
Speaker 14: is overcon that is financing via deficity, spending over consumption
Speaker 14: on things.
Speaker 5: That do not yield growth in the economy.
Speaker 14: Now, my concern in Nigeria's fiscal position and desastainability. If
Speaker 14: you look at you know, our government budgets, our government
Speaker 14: budget deficity GDP, it actually slowed on that tamable from
Speaker 14: high point forty three point five percent and it actually
Speaker 14: has you know, forecasted by the World Bank expected to
Speaker 14: stay within three percent three and a half percent over
Speaker 14: the next few years.
Speaker 5: That g GDP has also came down as well. Well,
Speaker 5: this is good.
Speaker 16: I also want to mention that any economy that is
Speaker 16: in a budget deficits, you have to be able to
Speaker 16: use what we call the desastibility rule.
Speaker 14: So in the desas satability role, you're saying that primarily
Speaker 14: struggles the GDP. You know it also public sector.
Speaker 13: The GDP you multiply your interest, your interest rates on
Speaker 13: death or your interested your debts might multiplied by a
Speaker 13: real economic growth rate.
Speaker 5: Now, an issue in Nigeria is.
Speaker 13: That if you're or any other economy, if you're running
Speaker 13: budget deficits, you need to have your primarise.
Speaker 5: You need to have to run a primary surplus. That's
Speaker 5: what brings them top down.
Speaker 13: What Nigeria is trying to do is borrows so that
Speaker 13: I don't know, im maybiely wants to borrow.
Speaker 5: Money to you know, maybe increase productivity growth.
Speaker 16: But you can only do that when your real economic
Speaker 16: growth rate is great beater than your real interest rate
Speaker 16: of your economy.
Speaker 5: That is, that is the problem that Nigeria has.
Speaker 13: Now, the last thing I want to mention before I
Speaker 13: give it back to you is that you know, what
Speaker 13: Nigeria needs.
Speaker 16: To do is that they have to go to a
Speaker 16: deleveraging phase.
Speaker 5: And in the leveraging.
Speaker 14: Phase, think you have to look at such as debt
Speaker 14: restructuring such as what was saying, such as what was
Speaker 14: seen in Ghana and Zambia, or you know, the cuting
Speaker 14: of wasteful spending. So for example, you guys talk talk
Speaker 14: about that phasical forecast.
Speaker 13: Yes, we want to say seventy five dollars a barrel,
Speaker 13: two million bars a day.
Speaker 16: And you know oil right now trending in the mid
Speaker 16: sixties and I don't see all even going anywhere or
Speaker 16: because of opex massive for supply and Trump's really dual
Speaker 16: you know, economic.
Speaker 14: Policy to see to allow US dalers to pump more shield.
Speaker 5: So I don't see all you're going anywhere.
Speaker 14: And what this does is that it really is quite
Speaker 14: our physical deficit. So it also also see that we
Speaker 14: need to have very conservative fiscal focus.
Speaker 16: And also another thing that you talked about is you
Speaker 16: know the brands crude correlation with our currency. Now, I
Speaker 16: believe I've always said this that Nigeria needs to direstify
Speaker 16: our export revenue.
Speaker 14: Currently export revenue mixed up about a big more than
Speaker 14: eighty percent of this.
Speaker 5: And what we need to do is increase more supply side.
Speaker 16: Policies, deregulation and align the ruins of our capitalism flow.
Speaker 14: Because once you do that, you allow all the sectors
Speaker 14: to come and that compete with export revenue so that
Speaker 14: we're not dependent on this.
Speaker 5: Room bus cycle of commodity prices.
Speaker 16: Noure is a commodity back to economy, and if commodity
Speaker 16: back economy, you're going to see a very.
Speaker 5: High fiscal deficits. So example, you can.
Speaker 16: Look at Gala as well Gada known as you know coco.
Speaker 5: Producers, which is touched in that currency.
Speaker 14: I just read read recently that you're exporting you know,
Speaker 14: more good exports and that's going to bring him twelve billion.
Speaker 5: And we have potential mining outputs are going to this
Speaker 5: about more than twenty percent. So there's something that I'm
Speaker 5: saying with her mirror. Is this something we can do now?
Speaker 5: Not sure, but long term I think we should look
Speaker 5: at that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think some great yeah also yeah yeah.
Speaker 14: And also the last thing I just wanted to say,
Speaker 14: because I must speaking again after this, I just want
Speaker 14: to say this need for their sustainabilities you know, paramounts
Speaker 14: across the global economy. You know the US already looking
Speaker 14: at you know, everybody's complaining about the deficit TCJA, and
Speaker 14: that is why you're seeing that.
Speaker 16: You know, the Trump tires are there to not only
Speaker 16: bring manufacturing, but they want to bring down the deficits.
Speaker 17: Because in my opinion, if you're not in a war,
Speaker 17: if you're not in a recession, if you do not.
Speaker 14: Have financial if you if you don't have financial system stress,
Speaker 14: you should not run a budget deficit more than six
Speaker 14: percent Nigeria broad desk to three percent undtable.
Speaker 13: But then again, like I said, in the debt or
Speaker 13: the ability role, you have to run a primary.
Speaker 5: Surplus, so then you bring your GDP down. So that's
Speaker 5: that's all I was saying.
Speaker 1: I mean, great points. When you mean you're not talking again,
Speaker 1: please hanger, don't go anywhere. So I have this, So
Speaker 1: just let's say this right, So thank you for making
Speaker 1: that point that debt deficits are not bad. As a
Speaker 1: matter of fact, you cannot point to any major economy
Speaker 1: on Earth.
Speaker 2: That has not to borrow to grow.
Speaker 3: Borrowing, even if you are making record revenues, record revenues
Speaker 3: do not come at common systems pace.
Speaker 1: But your experenses are consistent, so you must borrow to
Speaker 1: cover that you know back and forth and also to
Speaker 1: invest in infrastructure which you pay. So thanks for making
Speaker 1: a point that we're not against death, we're not against borrowing.
Speaker 1: You must borrow in Nigeria's case to bridge that infrastructure gap.
Speaker 1: I'm not along with that. I think let's highlight this now.
Speaker 1: If the government came to us and said, we want
Speaker 1: to borrow one trillion dollars, we want to use that
Speaker 1: one tillion dollars to connect all states with attending expressway,
Speaker 1: high speed reil and want to put stylings in every
Speaker 1: community in Nigeria. Was want to build a dams and
Speaker 1: connect all the rivers so you can seal.
Speaker 3: From Soco to to that delta. I don't think you.
Speaker 1: Will get anybody saying what you're behind is project management capacity.
Speaker 1: But will anyone talking about debt sustainability because most Nigerians
Speaker 1: understand they won't want to buy a house. You go
Speaker 1: to the bank and you borrow to buy a house,
Speaker 1: and that's a good debt. The problem is that Nigeria
Speaker 1: is borrowing. Well, we're not count is good while borrowing
Speaker 1: for recovering expenditures that add nothing to the treasury. If
Speaker 1: you look at what we're borrowing money from the World banker,
Speaker 1: like I was delivered when I said for nutritional support,
Speaker 1: dot's pull up World banks loans Nigeria.
Speaker 2: Let me give you the one that drives me up.
Speaker 1: Nigeria is borrowing in dollars to give nira to poor people.
Speaker 2: Say it again, Nigeria is borrowing.
Speaker 1: In dollars to give naira to poor people. Will the
Speaker 1: poor pop will pay back? No, So down the line,
Speaker 1: I just don't pay that loan back in dollars, but
Speaker 1: we give it out in naira.
Speaker 2: So essentially it's a we're.
Speaker 1: Supposed to use our internal taxes to give naira or
Speaker 1: borrowing naira and give out there nothing to social skill.
Speaker 1: People are poor, give them money, that's fine social welfare.
Speaker 1: But to go to the World Bank and borrow they
Speaker 1: would argue, oh, it's very very low.
Speaker 3: Interest rate, but why why are you borrowing in dollars
Speaker 3: for that? That's what's making the what bank side go up.
Speaker 3: This is the problem where we borrow for salads. We
Speaker 3: call it budget support.
Speaker 1: And if you do that, you created that physical hold
Speaker 1: in the future that you have no revenue to pay
Speaker 1: back on.
Speaker 2: That's the problem.
Speaker 3: This twenty two billion we're going to borrow, what's it
Speaker 3: going to be used for? No one has told us.
Speaker 3: They've simply told us we are not borrowing that money.
Speaker 2: In a year or two.
Speaker 3: But when you do it eventually borrow it, what are
Speaker 3: you going to use it for?
Speaker 2: No one?
Speaker 1: That's the first red flag. If you can see flashing,
Speaker 1: that's the red flag flag. That's why what's what I happen.
Speaker 2: In this space.
Speaker 3: We've held the same topic on this space two or
Speaker 3: three times now about death, death, sustainability and borrowing.
Speaker 2: You've got to.
Speaker 3: Be transpaparent with the tax payers. You cannot come to
Speaker 3: Nigerian and say Nigerian's want to borrow forty five children.
Speaker 3: Listen who hard it printed twenty three trillion. The cost
Speaker 3: in a quarter of that point was a trillion. That's
Speaker 3: what's still you were paying cib and before they connected
Speaker 3: to a bond was a trillion. So the interest we're
Speaker 3: paying to the CBN was more than the what nature
Speaker 3: the ferragrament was making from crude oil and gas, and
Speaker 3: that was just twenty two trillion. Now we're talking about
Speaker 3: forty five trillion. Who is gonna pay it back? The
Speaker 3: economy is at a spot where they are no essame
Speaker 3: is creating jobs because interest rates are very very high.
Speaker 2: IMPII is very very high.
Speaker 3: We just lost the bridge in Maqua, so food is
Speaker 3: gonna go up with miss impisition is gonna go up.
Speaker 2: I don't know what's happening right.
Speaker 1: So I saw a guy on Twitter celebrating that the
Speaker 1: federal government drew so cook borrowed money at nineteen percent
Speaker 1: and it was over subscribed several times.
Speaker 2: That's actually a red flag.
Speaker 3: It's telling you that Nigeria's are no longer taking risk.
Speaker 3: Nobody wants to invest in a business anymore. So everybody's
Speaker 3: running for safety of the federal government and are willing
Speaker 3: to take nineteen percent even when inflation is twenty three
Speaker 3: percent debribased, it was twenty three percent rebased to twenty
Speaker 3: three So Nigeria's attend the government that listen.
Speaker 2: The environment we.
Speaker 3: Find ourselves in Nigeria is so bad that we are
Speaker 3: willing to take nineteen percent then take a risk and
Speaker 3: start the business. You don't celebrate that. There is not
Speaker 3: to celebrate that. Look at America and the US. Good
Speaker 3: up to five percent. They're shaking. It's a big problem
Speaker 3: that their users are going to five percent.
Speaker 2: They wanted to come down. You don't celebrate high yields.
Speaker 3: You don't celebrate over subscription based on how yield. If
Speaker 3: you want to go gentgy, you were bond it was
Speaker 3: abus subscribed. People came home with it to celebrate. And yes,
Speaker 3: you celebrate that there's confidence in Nigeria. But people are
Speaker 3: only investing because you are paying them seven six ten
Speaker 3: on a dollar base. That's why they're investing.
Speaker 5: You don't. It doesn't call so.
Speaker 1: See you let me give you back to you just
Speaker 1: in case you had. I doesn't clarify that point even
Speaker 1: about the boys or the issue.
Speaker 2: But what we're borrowing for.
Speaker 5: Yes, like I said, the boring is not the issue.
Speaker 14: It's just what we're boring using theseus, using these.
Speaker 5: Step I would say the deficits because it's deficity spending. Yeah,
Speaker 5: we're using this to do in terms of productivity good
Speaker 5: because let me tell.
Speaker 16: You once you once if it's borings additional level, you're
Speaker 16: going to see that and niest productivity isn't at a
Speaker 16: as a very sustainable that are going to see that
Speaker 16: our debts will rise faster than our income. And if
Speaker 16: we are debt rights faster than income, I'm sorry. You
Speaker 16: are you are screwed because we are going to be
Speaker 16: spending more on interest payments over you know, supply side policies.
Speaker 16: That is why I even think you know, I agree
Speaker 16: that we are if not in the debt track. The
Speaker 16: only way we get out of this is you can
Speaker 16: borrow money. Finally, but you need to make.
Speaker 5: Sure that the productivity side is efficiently comver.
Speaker 2: We don't have proctifically growth in a population of.
Speaker 5: Twenty and thirty million. If you say this in Europe,
Speaker 5: people call you. They will say what you're crazy.
Speaker 16: In Europe, for example, people are complaining about Globard rates.
Speaker 5: If you have lbald rates, you don't have the sufficient
Speaker 5: productivity goes to run economy.
Speaker 18: An economy, we have a bulging population group of twenty
Speaker 18: and thirty million people and yet productifically growd wrong, yet
Speaker 18: the government is boring.
Speaker 5: Doesn't make sense to me. You can borrow money China.
Speaker 5: That is why we were having double.
Speaker 14: G G people from when they year they entered the
Speaker 14: WTO so when they started having this real estate crisis.
Speaker 14: You can borrow money and you can grow it on
Speaker 14: me with productive That's that's my main issue. And also
Speaker 14: with the n piecing thing as well. I think it's
Speaker 14: stupid in terms of you know, the wind we forecasted,
Speaker 14: the the our budget, you know, the way we forecasted
Speaker 14: in terms of you know, seventy five.
Speaker 5: Dollars a barrel, you know, oil is not. Oil is
Speaker 5: not going up. I bet you oil is not going
Speaker 5: to go.
Speaker 14: Past It's not going to go past tenty five dollars
Speaker 14: in this point economic climate.
Speaker 5: Because even if you say, you know, Goldman said a
Speaker 5: few weeks ago, a few days ago that they believed
Speaker 5: that the best edge for your portfolio is to have
Speaker 5: gold and oil.
Speaker 14: Yes, you can have oil to oil, but if you
Speaker 14: have oil in portfolio, I'm sorry, it also brings down,
Speaker 14: you know, you know.
Speaker 5: Some kind of capital returns, because oil.
Speaker 2: Is not going to go up.
Speaker 5: Even if you know, at.
Speaker 14: Israel we have this realist crisis because of the oversupply
Speaker 14: and because all peck plus are increasing.
Speaker 19: You know, the founder eleven thousand barrel produced. I don't
Speaker 19: know when they said they were going to do, but
Speaker 19: that's what they projected. You're going to see that oil
Speaker 19: prices are going to do and process's still spare capacity,
Speaker 19: you know.
Speaker 14: And then Trump as well begging the oil execs in
Speaker 14: the US to drill more even though I believe that
Speaker 14: that doesn't you know, they wouldn't do it because they
Speaker 14: don't want to make losses on your investments.
Speaker 5: So that is how it TEA is grow.
Speaker 9: You can borrow money.
Speaker 5: I don't have no issue in the country borrowing every country.
Speaker 5: The de seven countries are brown tons of money.
Speaker 2: But you have to fix the.
Speaker 5: Productive the decide. That is how you get your supposible.
Speaker 16: I think last thing I'll say, you know, Scott person
Speaker 16: said said something about set something similar that they.
Speaker 5: Will grow their way, they will go that way out
Speaker 5: out of that crisis by But I said, you can't
Speaker 5: do that if, like you said, I if you use.
Speaker 13: That sustainability rule, which is you know, paramount to any IMF.
Speaker 17: Fiscal If you use that susimility which says that the
Speaker 17: really interests rates, your real economic boot has to be
Speaker 17: greater than interest rates. Then if you do that, you
Speaker 17: can definite spend and then you can bring down you can.
Speaker 5: Your dergy people doesn't rise.
Speaker 14: But if you don't have the the productivity bout rates
Speaker 14: and you want to suspend, You're only going to increase
Speaker 14: your death and devasity sustainability much more higher.
Speaker 5: So that's just what I want to say.
Speaker 1: Okay, And again, just to be clear, Nigeria's growth rate
Speaker 1: is lower than population, more than productivity.
Speaker 2: Whatever, very verge and I'll give you a good example.
Speaker 2: Let me just just give an example that the bridge inqua.
Speaker 1: If you guys don't know what the bridge maqua means
Speaker 1: there not, then the good the food from the north
Speaker 1: comes to the south via that bridge.
Speaker 2: It's gone. Now to the floors. Okay, where are the reels.
Speaker 2: We have no reels.
Speaker 1: The grail from Legos to Canoe it's narrow gage. Narrow gage,
Speaker 1: follow guys, narrow gage from Legos to Cano. We have
Speaker 1: built standard gage from Legals to Ibadon. Then we stopped. Okay,
Speaker 1: we're now building a rail from Kano to Maradi, Innisia.
Speaker 1: That rail line is standard gauge. But the rail line
Speaker 1: in Karduna, the one that is in the north presently
Speaker 1: is narrow gauge. So follow what I'm saying. In the
Speaker 1: whole of the North they only have narrow gauge apart
Speaker 1: from the one that goes from a Buja to Karduna.
Speaker 1: Now the government has gone to start to build a
Speaker 1: standard gauge from Kano to New Year Republic.
Speaker 3: Let's assume that rail is completed tomorrow. Who would use it? Nobody?
Speaker 3: Why because it's not connected to any rail line coming.
Speaker 2: To the south.
Speaker 1: It's a standard gauge rail line. The entire rail line
Speaker 1: the north is narrow gauge. What means if you want
Speaker 1: to send food, well, if the would go from Carno,
Speaker 1: then stop at the end of Cano.
Speaker 2: We can't put it on the rail that is going
Speaker 2: to Legos or for tackled because those are narrow gauge.
Speaker 3: You see the point about how we spend on Nigeria
Speaker 3: and Governor that I said, Okay, let us continue that standard.
Speaker 1: Gauge from from a Badon or even go to Kaduna.
Speaker 1: Connect the Kaduna rail that the standard gauge to Cano.
Speaker 2: So you're not having.
Speaker 3: Network from Nije, Jigawa, Cano, Kaduna, Abuja.
Speaker 2: At least get to Abuja.
Speaker 3: Then you now connect the rail line that is an
Speaker 3: off farm from Worry to a Buja bring or you
Speaker 3: have food in the north from that is what we
Speaker 3: haven't done that but we're borrowing money to.
Speaker 1: Build that infrastructure. So it's not all in fast structure.
Speaker 1: It's good is the productivity gap? See who's talking about
Speaker 1: We are spending money on quote unquote capital productivity, but
Speaker 1: it's not adding to the productivity. It's not going to
Speaker 1: be connected. It's like building a power plant in the
Speaker 1: middle of nowhere. Meanwhile, Legos needs power, which is what
Speaker 1: we did. We build power plants in the southwest. The
Speaker 1: gas fields are in the south South. Then we're connected
Speaker 1: with traditional lines that cannot take more than certain termational cable.
Speaker 1: That's eliminate. Coming up and say for us, you've head
Speaker 1: a lot of our limited death sustainability debt trap. That
Speaker 1: the fact that we want to borrow and egg and
Speaker 1: I've seen amount of money about fifty percent right of
Speaker 1: the total foreign reserves forging debt right now, that's all
Speaker 1: where we want to project to borrow about forty five
Speaker 1: ERA about twenty three billions, not just stays dollars. I
Speaker 1: think that amount, if I'm not wrong, a people would
Speaker 1: know that amount should be more than our net foreign reserves.
Speaker 1: What wants to borrow more our nets, not the gross
Speaker 1: that we need.
Speaker 3: She wanted the nets for reserves right un fortunately for
Speaker 3: correct So so we're boring more than the morning.
Speaker 2: Okay, what.
Speaker 9: Good, afternoon?
Speaker 5: Good?
Speaker 4: I think.
Speaker 20: The first of all, I totally alive with your hydeology
Speaker 20: towards you know, we always say he was have this
Speaker 20: popular say that we don't have the revene problem, we
Speaker 20: have the spending problem.
Speaker 5: And I fully alive with that because I.
Speaker 20: First listened to the global picture about globals, you know,
Speaker 20: at dubs and the world it's said that about debt
Speaker 20: is about one hundred treasure dollars, and so I hadn't
Speaker 20: moving towards the one twenty in his pace faster than
Speaker 20: the speak of light and coming back home, you know.
Speaker 20: After listening to Jim Stemond, I said that we're expecting
Speaker 20: a crack in the year's bond market. For people that
Speaker 20: don't understand, the bond market is the world's most systemic
Speaker 20: markets where banks, institutions, government, central banks.
Speaker 5: Liquidity financing and to run different things.
Speaker 20: And from the crypto to stock market, it's a derivative
Speaker 20: of the bond market. For example, the staple coin, for example,
Speaker 20: has a large office and exposure of US bone market.
Speaker 20: You look at the mortgage also has so the bond
Speaker 20: market is very systemic. And when Dan was saying that
Speaker 20: we expected crack, you don't take that statement likely coming
Speaker 20: back home when you see the kind of shows happening
Speaker 20: the go by economy, and yes we are coming.
Speaker 9: From the bottom.
Speaker 5: Yes we got upgraded, but muti, the fiscal policy looks
Speaker 5: right than But our spending problem.
Speaker 20: If you read the empty article about the presidents celebrations
Speaker 20: for the first two years, you could see they have
Speaker 20: concerns about the fact that we still spend like a
Speaker 20: crypto body, you know, And I get scared because cal Yes,
Speaker 20: the excuse is that the twenty four billions is the
Speaker 20: Federation of the Federal government is the span of two
Speaker 20: years millium minimum.
Speaker 5: But the concern is that.
Speaker 20: If you look at what the FAS structure, we spent
Speaker 20: money on stat ale posts, unfunctional refery, guest houses, government houses.
Speaker 5: You become scared.
Speaker 2: Because the list I don't want to spend the money
Speaker 2: on the list a lot.
Speaker 20: If I'm talking about the money because we look wouldn't
Speaker 20: spending money on you know.
Speaker 5: Definitely they make you look beautiful.
Speaker 20: Who's talk about spending money in the FIRS structure. But
Speaker 20: when you look at the really FRAS structure, you get worried.
Speaker 20: And I'm so happy to be able who spoke on
Speaker 20: Bloomberg and spoke about the FRA structure deficits in Africa.
Speaker 7: And I'm sure it was trying.
Speaker 5: He was looking more on the macro rather than like you.
Speaker 5: But you know that in problems that language the problems
Speaker 5: and that you.
Speaker 20: Look at Seminal and yours with etricity and them to
Speaker 20: GDP is becoming is about when you add that amount
Speaker 20: of money.
Speaker 5: So it becomes scary when the Finance Ministry now explains
Speaker 5: to you that there's what we call productive tapt des
Speaker 5: is debt.
Speaker 7: You know, whether it's useful.
Speaker 20: For purpose or it's useful and historical da that show
Speaker 20: that nastbs has not been used productivity efficiently.
Speaker 5: And that's my major concern.
Speaker 20: So come he goes back to the question of why
Speaker 20: this mess because you see what's scares micaldo is not
Speaker 20: even just the opportunity because then give you a small sample.
Speaker 5: Well discussing MYCHD is you know it takes to you.
Speaker 20: It takes a child if he's malnutrition and he goes
Speaker 20: to the age of eighteen. If things go well for
Speaker 20: larger for example, maybe experience or he happens to get
Speaker 20: good things just because the child has had reformed years,
Speaker 20: the child cannot go beor that levety he might be
Speaker 20: build up intellectually. In my beauty, both physically metabolic healthwise,
Speaker 20: he has already been compromised because there certain age, is
Speaker 20: a certain age where your body will group your eyes
Speaker 20: to group perpe.
Speaker 5: For eighteen for guys twenty one. So the fact that
Speaker 5: that it implores children uneducated.
Speaker 20: I look at the span decades right now and you
Speaker 20: had another ten years to that age, it means that
Speaker 20: they become more the labor side. So it means we're
Speaker 20: having more like it is to friend for it means
Speaker 20: that we are having much.
Speaker 5: Risk in future. So and here I come in and play.
Speaker 5: It becomes very scary that where are we able to
Speaker 5: get the financing in future from? And the argument is
Speaker 5: that government definitely needs to pose deficis.
Speaker 9: But we know that.
Speaker 5: The major problem in the administration, not towards this administration
Speaker 5: over the last decade has been peas kind discipline, wasteful spending.
Speaker 20: And you know, I just hope that the resins who
Speaker 20: come to then you can't just with the young government
Speaker 20: much national then has also it seems like they.
Speaker 5: Want to keep your country, mostly because.
Speaker 20: Onely gets to wonder why you're building infrastructure to know
Speaker 20: where in the unit is not connected to the north,
Speaker 20: to the southeast and not aligned with really network networks.
Speaker 5: The airports that we build so far just three major
Speaker 5: briding about two percent traffic.
Speaker 20: The friaries that we have are looking like corps and
Speaker 20: you know they are just fts labyrisies.
Speaker 5: So the question is why don't do all them then?
Speaker 5: Or the fire government also.
Speaker 20: I think he has he has kept his cabinet more
Speaker 20: polklader equmic.
Speaker 2: We still have no business having more.
Speaker 5: Than mister card. To be honest with you, you know,
Speaker 5: before I drop them, I think these are the.
Speaker 20: Questions we really need to ask the government because well
Speaker 20: because say the government has shown dissensing in certain reforms.
Speaker 20: The critical things are helping the populised, education and culture, health,
Speaker 20: it's still by you know, the appad Nigeria's consumption if
Speaker 20: you it's not something to write to my post. And
Speaker 20: with the pastforms coming to play, I think the the
Speaker 20: the ammunition for the government is really rowing up because
Speaker 20: the pass reforms definitely might look painful with weak economy consumption.
Speaker 5: Dan Coote is bringing.
Speaker 20: Production has really helped stabilize increase exports, particularly in refined
Speaker 20: crude Advertizer, but they feared that the people who release
Speaker 20: Opeka said that they're going to production in July. Mixed
Speaker 20: me also very scared because the Saudeast and the Russians
Speaker 20: they are trying to get makesha.
Speaker 5: So he puts my right in.
Speaker 20: A in a kind of parabolic situation where we now
Speaker 20: have to create our good reprises.
Speaker 5: They have sixty dollars because the Trump has really.
Speaker 20: Spoken aggressively on the fact that he really wants to
Speaker 20: keep inflation down.
Speaker 5: And he wants to oation.
Speaker 20: So can That's the way I think depth this is
Speaker 20: not it's not just the call a banket, because what
Speaker 20: is going to.
Speaker 5: Be happening to Nigeria is not just.
Speaker 9: We don't have no series.
Speaker 20: We're spending like as if we're in Crates or the Southeast,
Speaker 20: where we able to understand that years we are already
Speaker 20: taking the right drugs, but we have also forgotten that
Speaker 20: they aren't. The poltics in our body really requires enough
Speaker 20: metal bodhism for wants to kind to the next stage.
Speaker 20: And that is my fear because when you eat without
Speaker 20: when you take drugs without eating, we can and inorganical ability.
Speaker 1: So that's the question for you guys, see you everybody,
Speaker 1: why can the government bring the list to see this
Speaker 1: is what wants used the borrowing for the mouth.
Speaker 2: What can just come on and say this is what
Speaker 2: we want to spend money on.
Speaker 5: And it doesn't work.
Speaker 7: It doesn't work.
Speaker 21: You mean, you know, I really looked play.
Speaker 20: But if you look at the temple of loan reasons
Speaker 20: for planting, it makes a lot up sense.
Speaker 5: You know, I don't think see the one of the
Speaker 5: problem I think we have. It's not the formation of ideas.
Speaker 5: It's the implementation of policies that's the major problem. So
Speaker 5: for example, you know, you look at the cost of
Speaker 5: running operations that you have.
Speaker 9: You know, I listened to I think I.
Speaker 2: Can't remember what was looking in space when I had.
Speaker 20: To engage to compare the cost of part line in Venezuela.
Speaker 5: Rockie. Theial way even.
Speaker 21: Has a lot of risk.
Speaker 20: Russia psygra rest behind you that one want to play
Speaker 20: and I foind out that the money contracting and you
Speaker 20: are very expensive.
Speaker 9: So the person is you have to look.
Speaker 5: At all these problems before and that's why the valizer
Speaker 5: will tell you that it's not the information of what
Speaker 5: they want you to wan is the money going to
Speaker 5: be used? Andially sure that the niger public is right.
Speaker 20: You're coming from the government that spends less than word
Speaker 20: Google mix in a quarter.
Speaker 5: But you look at the the type of presidency. We
Speaker 5: have one of the most expensive in the world, you know,
Speaker 5: and it's really a concerning across Africa. We're matual aliments
Speaker 5: or for celebrators.
Speaker 22: So I think it's not just even about I think
Speaker 22: the question is you shouldn't use our fonts and the
Speaker 22: funds that were wasted. What happened the finerary issue for example,
Speaker 22: bellions of dolars.
Speaker 20: That will send tend them kits to Seal University from
Speaker 20: busic education.
Speaker 5: Is we're saying what happens next?
Speaker 20: You know, we had cases of somebody building several houses
Speaker 20: now which are so.
Speaker 9: It's a product.
Speaker 2: So we have an wether economy where we have no
Speaker 2: horizontal real line.
Speaker 3: You can't go from stay in Nasara to you by
Speaker 3: real It's not possibly some genetics.
Speaker 20: That's the problem because look at the US, for example,
Speaker 20: the US has used the control didn't.
Speaker 5: Go with res was like you you will see that
Speaker 5: the connected economic.
Speaker 20: Lives EXAs New York is the connect I don't see example,
Speaker 20: can negos and are economic lins you know, and there's
Speaker 20: mtage economic linses amplfies economic community, its.
Speaker 9: Processes and prosperity.
Speaker 20: Because already that's that line is business interactive.
Speaker 5: So I think go back to you need to this
Speaker 5: formation next.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and again we have an economy again, I see you.
Speaker 1: We have an economy again where there is no power
Speaker 1: supply even for twelve hours for a company.
Speaker 2: To plan and say I want to produce for twelve
Speaker 2: hours straight. They can't get that.
Speaker 1: The economy where you can go by road from say
Speaker 1: Legos or Ugo or say so so to another.
Speaker 2: Part of the region on an express road.
Speaker 3: We have them by name, but you can't go from
Speaker 3: one region Nigeria to another region Nigeria with an express road.
Speaker 3: Just step on the brakes, close your eyes and just go.
Speaker 4: So.
Speaker 1: I'm because infrastructure, no hanging fruits, no handling food that
Speaker 1: you cannot investing.
Speaker 2: See you go ahead.
Speaker 5: I just want to add something. What about what don't
Speaker 5: we look at it like this?
Speaker 9: I like to look at things.
Speaker 5: From a different perspective.
Speaker 13: I agree with what all you're saying, but what if
Speaker 13: let's say, all this is being equal, we decided to
Speaker 13: move this deficity spending, this government spend, whatever it may be,
Speaker 13: what form it is, we moved into the private sector.
Speaker 13: That's I think what you're doing.
Speaker 14: Is you're creating more injection of injection to the circular
Speaker 14: for the economy, or rather with drums.
Speaker 5: So if you move the government spending, you move.
Speaker 14: The fiscal you move the fiscal spending into the private sector.
Speaker 5: I think a lot less of this out of the
Speaker 5: public public sector.
Speaker 16: You're going to see that all those all those economic
Speaker 16: activities they're talking about you in ineffectively, sorry, would bring.
Speaker 13: Our deficits and GP that which is actually a beta metrics.
Speaker 2: See what you're saying that we should issue bonds the
Speaker 2: private that's what you're saying.
Speaker 14: No, No, I'm saying that we should move the move
Speaker 14: fiscal spending. It could be issue of bonds, yes, for
Speaker 14: most of it should be in growth.
Speaker 5: Supply aligned for example, if we're.
Speaker 14: Giving roads for example, why don't we instead of give
Speaker 14: an example?
Speaker 15: Right, So I read a few weeks ago that the
Speaker 15: United States private for example.
Speaker 14: Private credit rights, private credit is not going to be
Speaker 14: the main financing of infrastructure because because what trumperdentition or
Speaker 14: doing podcasts, it isn't going to be any you know,
Speaker 14: anyone is left to you know finance, you know in
Speaker 14: the US airports terminals, you know.
Speaker 5: Utilities, all that kind of thing. So what I'm saying is,
Speaker 5: if we know that we have a debt problem, why
Speaker 5: don't we spending Why don't.
Speaker 16: You move that spending into the private sector, allow more
Speaker 16: of these individuals.
Speaker 5: To come and say, Okay, we're not going to do
Speaker 5: the more these projects. Let's let these who have more
Speaker 5: economics to skill and.
Speaker 14: More expertise, have more experience, come and you know, finance
Speaker 14: these activities.
Speaker 18: Because doing in effectively that you're bringing you these guys,
Speaker 18: and these guys have enough casual what you're effectively doing,
Speaker 18: they will start to go to see if using the automatics,
Speaker 18: you're going to see more increase in your tax revenues.
Speaker 5: So that's much more withdraws if he works like that.
Speaker 5: That's what I'm thinking about.
Speaker 2: But don't we have that the rate.
Speaker 1: Don't we have the tax risky where you can you
Speaker 1: can build a road on infrastructure and you get a
Speaker 1: tax credit. I think Empthony is supposed to be building
Speaker 1: the road in a way to the bonnet that doesn't work.
Speaker 5: I think the problems I think it's beyond that because
Speaker 5: you can be passed. For example, look at the likes
Speaker 5: of Transcope exclusure there and you have the problem. They
Speaker 5: have governments and don't.
Speaker 9: Pay for their services.
Speaker 5: How do you want how do you want.
Speaker 20: To pass to try when God make you sell don't
Speaker 20: pay bills? You know, and look how happened when the
Speaker 20: journey and we pretty in the movie as electric.
Speaker 23: The content is not just the cons is not just moving.
Speaker 23: The question is that understand that limits. You have research
Speaker 23: that was okay, I that k goes to them.
Speaker 20: They are learning the cutter car aspect of their economy.
Speaker 5: And trust me, people need to understand that despite.
Speaker 20: The fact that has at opportunities, this the the the colot.
Speaker 20: It's very tough for foreign to align in sol or
Speaker 20: the richest guys in the quantity depe So the fact
Speaker 20: that is already busy with petrol, the reoman is busy
Speaker 20: with that's busy the electric. It was that we really
Speaker 20: need to count size. Yes, I create the fact that
Speaker 20: private that she needs to take control. But the honest
Speaker 20: government governmental paviews.
Speaker 5: But just the payers is a coupla lists.
Speaker 20: You know from ours spoke about want people that big
Speaker 20: taxes in the country.
Speaker 5: You know, I mean, I'm metal access.
Speaker 24: So the question back.
Speaker 5: When the who.
Speaker 2: What do you keep the public?
Speaker 5: So the government need to this the example. If you
Speaker 5: want to have the small functional government, yes it's possible.
Speaker 20: If you want to as we have the big government
Speaker 20: that really wants to achievement, then you want the examples.
Speaker 4: That's what.
Speaker 5: I mean.
Speaker 1: I like to see what see you say. I'm saying
Speaker 1: wlready have it, and I think look at it this way.
Speaker 1: If you want to build a real line across the
Speaker 1: southeast or not these states, you can have just if
Speaker 1: the government has to come and pass those laws that
Speaker 1: would say in the states, for instance, rights of eminent
Speaker 1: domain taxes will be deferred to make the project bankable.
Speaker 1: But I think if you go to a particular stage,
Speaker 1: yes you can get it because it's just just one
Speaker 1: governor or productivity starts with Lincoln regions in Nigeria.
Speaker 2: That's when you get the real productive.
Speaker 1: What I said, if you're a Nigerian exporter or importer
Speaker 1: or trader, you cannot drive from one region Nigeria to
Speaker 1: the other.
Speaker 2: Region on a on a six lane clean expressway.
Speaker 3: We have all this express us by name. But try
Speaker 3: and drive on the legal suite bad on expressway. That's
Speaker 3: the one they've done.
Speaker 1: But go out of your but go west and try
Speaker 1: to go towards being. Then you start to see. Okay,
Speaker 1: I there's a video of going from portacle to our bar. Look,
Speaker 1: I've seen that video. I posted it myself. I s
Speaker 1: every ten meters a policetation's a police checkpoint and I'm
Speaker 1: not exaggerating.
Speaker 2: There's a video every ten.
Speaker 3: Meters you can see next to the next checkpoint and
Speaker 3: that's an express road. So if you don't take away
Speaker 3: those self invisiblettom next, the country can't grow.
Speaker 2: There's no productivity.
Speaker 3: If a truck carrying food will one hundred times for
Speaker 3: policemen to give them money one hundred times or minimum minus.
Speaker 5: Yea as as that and said you know they.
Speaker 3: In the zone sitle toom government is.
Speaker 9: Trying to control.
Speaker 5: I get what you has said. He miss a lot said,
Speaker 5: but I also feel that the government really needs to
Speaker 5: work with.
Speaker 25: This government and look in addressing honestly, if you really
Speaker 25: want to hit high intensity need to invest.
Speaker 9: In the East. You can.
Speaker 2: I'm going to share the video. It's just crazy that
Speaker 2: it's I'm not exaggerating the videos of my tar. I
Speaker 2: have to find it again.
Speaker 3: It's literally fifteen or ten meters literally when you stop
Speaker 3: for this police guy, you can see the next guy.
Speaker 5: I'm not.
Speaker 2: I'm all for Listen. We have drones today. We have
Speaker 2: a I today.
Speaker 3: If they really are serious, you can use drones and
Speaker 3: a and track every movement on that road, every.
Speaker 2: Movement you can. The thing will take the picture of
Speaker 2: the number plate to tell you that someone is suspected
Speaker 2: in the state here. A there said technology they have here.
Speaker 3: If you drive into a county and your number plate
Speaker 3: is wanted for a crime in another place, they pomust
Speaker 3: be elected that this car has come to this county.
Speaker 2: They will know exactly.
Speaker 3: Where you are and I can just drive on and
Speaker 3: meet you there. It's not an expensive tackle. It just
Speaker 3: drove me becoming like an read number plates. So I'm
Speaker 3: not saying that, you know, it's it's to have a
Speaker 3: checkpoint every ten meters.
Speaker 1: That's an overkill. But let me get omar. Has he
Speaker 1: changed his name Bright? I don't know which long name
Speaker 1: is Bright? What's this long name? Omar lua b look
Speaker 1: bright you've come again.
Speaker 5: Go ahead.
Speaker 2: I'm doing very well, thank you, sir.
Speaker 1: Yes, sir, Yeah, you've had a conversation where we agreed
Speaker 1: that we must borrow with vi great debts and depicits
Speaker 1: have with stimulants for economic growth. We don't mind the
Speaker 1: government borrowing for infrastructure.
Speaker 3: We're worried about the volume that they're borrowing without the
Speaker 3: should we say the disclosure on where these points are
Speaker 3: going to be going to we are.
Speaker 2: Worded and it's not borrow right.
Speaker 3: Nigerao be in a debt trap because oil revenues are
Speaker 3: declining while the cost of debts are going up.
Speaker 2: What's you take.
Speaker 5: So for me? I kind of when I check that MPTE,
Speaker 5: I regnize that it's a plan. It wasn't something that
Speaker 5: is gonna hap so was a plan that needs to
Speaker 5: be approached.
Speaker 16: And the reason that I wouldn't want to give myself
Speaker 16: Eddy And the reason I'm saying this is that I
Speaker 16: think I think we pay too more emphasis on the
Speaker 16: product we left the steps don't request penny.
Speaker 5: You just mentioned something about infrastructure, about airport.
Speaker 16: We just talk about it that briefly in the person
Speaker 16: so many states are building airport.
Speaker 5: Why do they need airport? And that's when I have
Speaker 5: a problems. We got federal government at every time we
Speaker 5: say further government is doing reckless man. And I think
Speaker 5: the reckless meaning it's not limited to the federal government.
Speaker 16: State governors are telling you categoricality your phrase that well
Speaker 16: started borrowing and the money they are getting, they're not
Speaker 16: being productive with it, rather building projects that are not
Speaker 16: that cannot even help the economy of their state.
Speaker 5: I'll give you an example. That's what that court we
Speaker 5: wrote you.
Speaker 16: You're talking about hour passed through that road.
Speaker 5: Three or four weeks ago. I was in owing. I
Speaker 5: don't know what happened.
Speaker 16: I don't know if you remember a week did something.
Speaker 5: To their flights, so I have to travel from over
Speaker 5: it to catch the flight.
Speaker 16: In Ptacles and for me, for me, I was ashamed
Speaker 16: for the state governors.
Speaker 5: From that part of the world. And let me please people.
Speaker 16: This is one thing that I just realized this country
Speaker 16: is quite big that let's agree that if govert is
Speaker 16: too slow, if this, if NAGA is gonna function properly, well,
Speaker 16: then the state governor.
Speaker 5: Especially now that you're getting money, especially now that you're
Speaker 5: getting money.
Speaker 16: There are state governors, there are fifteen federal route and at.
Speaker 5: The end of the didn't get their money back. I mean,
Speaker 5: it's it's so painful for.
Speaker 16: Me that I went to worry from the village where
Speaker 16: I was to over the township. It takes us only
Speaker 16: thirty five minutes because they did that rule. Even though
Speaker 16: that rule that was done beside the drillage on the
Speaker 16: side that ought to be convert because let's open in that.
Speaker 16: What five days I spent on that plays four accidents,
Speaker 16: Let's leave the other side.
Speaker 5: Oh my pot is that.
Speaker 16: Each state governors decided to spend and I think this
Speaker 16: has been always my argument. Please forgive me about all
Speaker 16: these our physical discipline blah blah blah discipline. If the
Speaker 16: state governor decided to imprest a million a billionaire into
Speaker 16: food into let's even say five hundred million into agriculture
Speaker 16: on a monthly basis simple thing.
Speaker 5: A lot of them have planned that. It's not cultivated,
Speaker 5: it's just there. If you decide to say.
Speaker 16: That with this five hundred million, I'm gonna buy tractors,
Speaker 16: I'm gonna buy.
Speaker 5: The things I need to do.
Speaker 16: Farming on a monthly day is just spent five hundred million.
Speaker 16: Do yourself to go to those villages because I passed
Speaker 16: through villages and those villages.
Speaker 5: By six pm, seven pm.
Speaker 16: You pass through those those villages, you see your five
Speaker 16: grandchildren fifteen between fifteen and twenty one.
Speaker 5: You were standing by the junctions of.
Speaker 16: Those places because there's no light, so meaning that touring
Speaker 16: the day, they're not productive.
Speaker 5: This is not limited to await. I was going from
Speaker 5: a Buja two weeks ago. I drove from a Buja.
Speaker 16: For after eight or nine years, I've not driven off
Speaker 16: that road. I drew from a Buja to Legos and
Speaker 16: between Abuja and Law of that that road is there.
Speaker 16: And the reason I'm saying this is that I don't
Speaker 16: want to us stay in and do these calculations that
Speaker 16: were me.
Speaker 5: If I'm going to borrow money. In fact it is
Speaker 5: me that I'm going to borrow money. I would rather burrow.
Speaker 16: I say that, look this tax, the tax to credit
Speaker 16: that they did that I'm going they used to fixing
Speaker 16: or show key everything and is using to fix those
Speaker 16: other roles.
Speaker 5: Why can't we open that thing up to so many
Speaker 5: companies in Nigeria to make it like legs. But the Expressway.
Speaker 5: Like you said, I spent between a Puja to get.
Speaker 16: To to a Kitty, not to get to or on
Speaker 16: those states. It takes me almost eight hours. In the process,
Speaker 16: I lost my exhausts. And when I use that road distly,
Speaker 16: that comes to my head is that I can't imagine
Speaker 16: how any logistics business can work.
Speaker 5: And I say, let's not deceive ourselves, because I met
Speaker 5: quite a lot of trucks that got broke down in
Speaker 5: that bad rule and the rest of them. Sure now,
Speaker 5: and I even show that we're stayed rules for me.
Speaker 5: If I have a highway that passed through my state,
Speaker 5: I am telling you as I will spend that rule.
Speaker 5: I will spend money to fix that.
Speaker 2: I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't interrupted, but let me just say this right So,
Speaker 1: the issue is the federal borrowing is also state and federal.
Speaker 1: Nometter that this borrowing we're talking about. It's not the
Speaker 1: federal governmental borrowing. It is federal and state. And what
Speaker 1: we're trying to talk about is that the borrowing is
Speaker 1: going to create a death trap. You are talking about
Speaker 1: the effects of the Maral administration. I get it, and
Speaker 1: I think I suppose your points you are making. But
Speaker 1: the issue we are trying to raise.
Speaker 2: Is this you have to borrow? Right?
Speaker 3: I hear you saying the figure If you borrow this
Speaker 3: for forty seven forty five trillion and you use it
Speaker 3: for to build a new real way to masure republic,
Speaker 3: it's not on our productivity if it's not nected to
Speaker 3: the existing railways.
Speaker 2: And the point is not the borrowing, but what.
Speaker 9: That boy.
Speaker 16: That is going to there's the one that she's going
Speaker 16: to the southeast from the how do you know?
Speaker 2: How do you know?
Speaker 5: No? No, no, no, that can wait. So so the
Speaker 5: team for me is like I said that borrowing.
Speaker 1: No, I'm asking because there's no I don't have the record.
Speaker 1: And again you said the medium term framework. The medium
Speaker 1: term framework has eight trillion in it? Does you have
Speaker 1: forty five has eight trillion in it? That's number one.
Speaker 2: Number two.
Speaker 1: If he says a plan, then were they right into
Speaker 1: the to the Senate to approve it. If it's a plan,
Speaker 1: it wasn't let a force it letter just to say, oh,
Speaker 1: where they have midium ten framework? Want to remind you
Speaker 1: of that? Just be reminded.
Speaker 3: No, they are right into the Senate to approve That's
Speaker 3: why the Senate is centered as to the Committee on Debt,
Speaker 3: Remember the Senate President said, I afforded to the Committee
Speaker 3: on extern out Debt to reive what the committee do.
Speaker 1: Committee will skip the recommendation. They need to be approved.
Speaker 1: This is only without approval. And the Ministry of Finance
Speaker 1: and the DMO then issued the securities to borrow. So
Speaker 1: that idea that it's the sack, it doesn't follow that
Speaker 1: the process is so just as I've played out, you
Speaker 1: have got to write an intimate a Senate that you'd
Speaker 1: like to borrow, then the center that approved that borrowing,
Speaker 1: and then you can borrow exactly what bo did. But
Speaker 1: in the end, but having printed twenty two trillion, he
Speaker 1: didn't go to the Senate. What happened to the Living Office?
Speaker 1: He had to issue a bond. The Senate and the
Speaker 1: House approved that bond. The DMO then issued and added
Speaker 1: that bond tonight, you have said, so that's the reason
Speaker 1: I'm going to fly my brother saying oh off, he
Speaker 1: dropped off, sorry about that, and lo.
Speaker 3: Show how are you doing? So let me add my
Speaker 3: brother back show you've got the flopleas, go ahead, let
Speaker 3: me add you.
Speaker 5: I think you can't do good inning everyone.
Speaker 26: Yeah, So it's actually been a very interesting topic of
Speaker 26: extremity also for its contribution. So for me, I think,
Speaker 26: like everyone said, borow is actually not a big deal,
Speaker 26: but we've got a.
Speaker 5: Problem as to where the borrowing is actually going through
Speaker 5: like it.
Speaker 26: For instance, Abercuta in the States as a more flyovers
Speaker 26: than Manchester in England. What and Abercuta in Uburann States. Yeah,
Speaker 26: has more fly overs than Manchester in England.
Speaker 2: That's an interesting start.
Speaker 26: And then Manchester has I mean several many, I mean
Speaker 26: several cars than Albercuta in Uburn, States. So it makes
Speaker 26: me question why Halbercuter should actually have more flyovers than
Speaker 26: the very economic, comically right brands are city like in England,
Speaker 26: then like in Manchester, like everywhere, every every road actually
Speaker 26: leads to somewhere. But we have a situation in that
Speaker 26: where once you leave the major road then you are
Speaker 26: you are allowed, you are literally on your own. And
Speaker 26: also we have a situation where step governors actually also
Speaker 26: neglect our rural areas and in so doing they actually
Speaker 26: indirectly create more pressure on the urban areas because youth
Speaker 26: from the from the rural areas will actually have to
Speaker 26: migrate riding orcadas in the urban centers, which is actually
Speaker 26: also creating a huge, I mean problem on farming activities,
Speaker 26: which is actually the rock of.
Speaker 5: Economy within the rural areas.
Speaker 26: So we have we have still governors actually deliberately neglecting
Speaker 26: the rural areas. So what what kind of roads are
Speaker 26: we actually expecting in in this or in this kind
Speaker 26: of scenario, which is actually so I mean so so bad.
Speaker 5: And also I also think we.
Speaker 26: Also have a huge problem with accountability. Just on just
Speaker 26: for precent Honarized TV, a TV presenter was actually question
Speaker 26: in the minutes out of works as through the cost
Speaker 26: pakilometer for for the coastal road and right on tree
Speaker 26: you can see we can all see the reaction from
Speaker 26: those that are actually in support of governments. It's like everybody,
Speaker 26: I mean, people don't actually want to be to be
Speaker 26: I mean, we don't like accountability quote and on code
Speaker 26: and I don't see where the country is actually added
Speaker 26: in this in this regard.
Speaker 5: That's my submission.
Speaker 9: Colue.
Speaker 3: Yeah, someone just checked priest and said it's actually true,
Speaker 3: that's true.
Speaker 2: I didn't know that. It's interesting, is it?
Speaker 3: Because Albercota is expanding, so they're building, you know, in
Speaker 3: anticipation of the population of cars.
Speaker 5: No, no, no, calu. I see it as a kind
Speaker 5: of misplaced priority.
Speaker 26: Maybe flyovers are actually cash cows for governors.
Speaker 5: And also true if you look at this, I mean,
Speaker 5: if you look.
Speaker 26: At the recent project in notion, you can see also
Speaker 26: flyovers are flying around in ocean and these are this,
Speaker 26: I mean, this is an economy way by not every
Speaker 26: ousehold of cars. So Abercuta is actually about if not
Speaker 26: triple four times are the population of Manchester and Manchester.
Speaker 26: As there are many more cars in Manchester, far many
Speaker 26: more cars in Manchester than Abercuta. So which actually yeah,
Speaker 26: which actually shows that people are really there are far
Speaker 26: less cards in Abercuta. So now in Manchester, like I
Speaker 26: said earlier, every road actually leads to somewhere. There are
Speaker 26: there are so many routes due to actually gates get
Speaker 26: on to his destination. If you look at in our
Speaker 26: roads in they are totally totally bad. And this is
Speaker 26: actually just to support your claim on I mean Nigeria
Speaker 26: not being connected. I mean our cities and states are
Speaker 26: not being connected to each other. So it's actually also
Speaker 26: happening within the within the the amain, within the smaller
Speaker 26: units of the country.
Speaker 5: So I think it's actually a very larger problem.
Speaker 26: And also I mean also linking to the fact that
Speaker 26: our governments or I mean governors and governments actually spend
Speaker 26: on things that are not relevant.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I saw I saw an infographic from
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy three and it was like a train shadow
Speaker 1: in nineteenth three. So it was like, if you want
Speaker 1: to go from port haar Court to Legos, it will
Speaker 1: take you three days. So you do Protacod, then you
Speaker 1: go to Kaduna, then the trainer goes from Kaduna to Legos.
Speaker 1: If you want to go from Legos to Cano, it
Speaker 1: takes you a day because just goes straight from Legos
Speaker 1: to Cano. That was in nineteen seventy three. Today nothing
Speaker 1: has changed. If you want to go from Portacot to
Speaker 1: Legos by train, the minimum is still going to be
Speaker 1: that three days. Nothing has changed from nineteen seventy three.
Speaker 3: And I noticed because I've gone on a train from
Speaker 3: Jos to Legos and you'll go dross.
Speaker 2: You go all the way to kavan Chan. Cavan Chine is.
Speaker 3: Where you have to changeover to go from the northern
Speaker 3: line to the from the western line to the eastern line.
Speaker 1: You change over in Cavent, China. It was built by
Speaker 1: the British. So look at the point I'm making. All
Speaker 1: the oil Nigeria has earned. From nineteen sixty to date, Nigeria.
Speaker 3: Has not added one one one, one brand new line,
Speaker 3: one brand new line of reil. The only brand new
Speaker 3: line is gonna be the one from Abuja to Kaduna
Speaker 3: and the one from attack By to Worry.
Speaker 1: Attack Ber to Worry is for a jacuta. It's not
Speaker 1: for commercials to carry iron oil. We just built train
Speaker 1: stations to make that look like it was only for
Speaker 1: iron ore the one from so Literally, from nineteen sixty
Speaker 1: to date, Nigeria has only added The only brand new.
Speaker 3: Line is this attack By one which was built in
Speaker 3: nineteen eighties. Nineteen eighties, I saw that Shain with my eyes.
Speaker 3: In the nineteen eighties, you was better attack back to
Speaker 3: ward I saw it. And then the one that goes
Speaker 3: from Kaduna to Abuja. Since nineteen sixty, all them crude
Speaker 3: oil money. It is to go from Portacos to Legos.
Speaker 3: You will go from Portarcot, you will go all the
Speaker 3: way to cafan Chan. Then you will change a train
Speaker 3: and then go from cafan chan to legos. How How
Speaker 3: how can a country that says it is the largest
Speaker 3: economy in sub Sahan Africa not be able to connect
Speaker 3: two regions?
Speaker 1: Now the bridge and morkwise down. I told people on
Speaker 1: Twitter qualm buy food. No one who told me with
Speaker 1: twitch power, how do you start food? Because if you're
Speaker 1: not talking about this tomato and pepper, where are you
Speaker 1: gonna start it? If he buys the book?
Speaker 3: This is this is this is this serious question in
Speaker 3: the year twenty twenty five, that Nigeria you cannot stop
Speaker 3: pepper and tomato because there's no power. So we you know,
Speaker 3: sometimes we speak fly like we speak these flowery things.
Speaker 3: We do this fowery project. But was the economic impact
Speaker 3: of this? Why are we borrowing if we borrow this
Speaker 3: money for power, if we brought if we borrow this
Speaker 3: for five trillion and they tell me in ten years
Speaker 3: we're going to have power to the first of Naga.
Speaker 2: I don't think an about will complain. I doubt anybody
Speaker 2: will complain. Yes, I doubt it not you're hanging there.
Speaker 5: Thanks for that.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna have to investigate more.
Speaker 3: But thanks for bringing at attention and let's get the
Speaker 3: tech you're here, they will get there and they will
Speaker 3: go to the go ahead.
Speaker 2: You ready, go ahead, You've got the yes, sir.
Speaker 5: So like the Complex said, he I'm listening to a
Speaker 5: person well in thinking that what I'm like and.
Speaker 9: There's really wrong.
Speaker 27: With Seriously, there's really what you're going advantage.
Speaker 4: Worries I death.
Speaker 5: They are, they are, they are, they are banding, they
Speaker 5: are al they do they see for what they say.
Speaker 28: In fact, there's one who What my concern is, what
Speaker 28: is the.
Speaker 5: Day dealing with all the wrongs that they are going now.
Speaker 28: I think they put out in quest to.
Speaker 29: The National to the Senate that they are the national
Speaker 29: stategy that they're going to do with the olaws.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 27: So now the problem that couple people have I listened
Speaker 27: to a tree from my life. See where someone on
Speaker 27: the show would say, and what you saying that they.
Speaker 9: Request for.
Speaker 30: That's on the National sateergy to see that letter that
Speaker 30: the president stands to the National State to see what
Speaker 30: they're there is.
Speaker 24: A list of projects that have died to that partibularity
Speaker 24: quest to go.
Speaker 29: I think they get he said that that is that's
Speaker 29: why I requests and I tell them to I don't
Speaker 29: know whether they.
Speaker 27: Sell it or that's at because I don't have any
Speaker 27: problems with the reports.
Speaker 29: That they are making, but the jeers should not be
Speaker 29: in the that of not what is that's what what
Speaker 29: project that these do?
Speaker 5: Please do described to do the doing.
Speaker 29: So I'm motioned to see whether anybody involvements do all
Speaker 29: say oh, this morning that we're going to be taking
Speaker 29: this is worth and work and what has.
Speaker 24: Re tied to and I think they would be it
Speaker 24: will be that's what this is that I'm doing that work.
Speaker 5: I don't.
Speaker 28: I would not sit down and think that they need
Speaker 28: they will have in those moneys with.
Speaker 29: House have these specific budget, it's a specific project that's
Speaker 29: going to.
Speaker 28: Go to and also then having its include the one.
Speaker 27: On the ground, whether that goose monies are used.
Speaker 29: For those specific futures that they have realed for they are.
Speaker 24: I don't really I'm I an one band and MTV
Speaker 24: fun sold.
Speaker 28: Than I athletes name, but I don't.
Speaker 9: I don't.
Speaker 31: I don't.
Speaker 30: You can you can pet from home, but I don't
Speaker 30: think too that they judge give your money and I.
Speaker 28: Really need this is spectum about what you want to
Speaker 28: do with you and whatever you want to deal with them.
Speaker 2: So that is my worry.
Speaker 5: My worry is our system.
Speaker 32: Is not you know, I've just wanted to do what
Speaker 32: I did you be doing now I just want to
Speaker 32: say contain Also.
Speaker 24: That's why are you going into this doing well as
Speaker 24: I do? How it's time before Bloody and Glady said
Speaker 24: they were playing five to sixty on subsidy.
Speaker 28: Now because of it, literally.
Speaker 32: And of that, I know that the subsidy like as
Speaker 32: women talk to you today, the.
Speaker 28: GOO governments who playing good for tempty level to subs.
Speaker 21: If you can't consider.
Speaker 32: Informational, I'm inspluture inclusion or whatever.
Speaker 27: If Guard was playing five to sixte years old, so
Speaker 27: we should be playing.
Speaker 5: Your arm.
Speaker 28: So now what's the argument that they were people in government.
Speaker 29: Is deeping is that they are sure that the same
Speaker 29: government is getting a wrong one from the series so
Speaker 29: many thing he says, do a got your fine, I
Speaker 29: got you.
Speaker 28: The move stops in me by letter by left one
Speaker 28: night composed and he said, quitted there it is sold.
Speaker 2: You worry and tell.
Speaker 28: Pretty here and we're so old put there.
Speaker 30: So we all went to like now you invested in
Speaker 30: the nineties and NY two hundred every two thousands.
Speaker 28: Were so deep this unspe investors that we in the world.
Speaker 21: You will see this video was view like this.
Speaker 30: Pretty there stall with Japan. I mean it moves, so
Speaker 30: you wanted to the move stops to be because.
Speaker 32: Of set of shortly were so can't time of my first.
Speaker 30: Bosses bosses all which lived up and we will see
Speaker 30: shop that you will see this good things that you
Speaker 30: or they wanted to do.
Speaker 28: Subs what allowed to do so in anyway they wanting
Speaker 28: for that they shopping?
Speaker 7: Now what this most of.
Speaker 32: The government saying that they are.
Speaker 28: Taking money from the something and reed to.
Speaker 14: Stay for the almost stay.
Speaker 9: The ones how.
Speaker 28: To speak the morning what I'm set up?
Speaker 5: What don't they set up?
Speaker 30: In fact flashing pudd, I said this level through the scud.
Speaker 4: So that Glen that this is.
Speaker 32: Not making doesn't make any someday that doesn't.
Speaker 7: Want to be going.
Speaker 28: But I trust you to poltics go young politicians.
Speaker 4: To cretizing.
Speaker 3: I'll yeah, thank you submission. I did a tweet and
Speaker 3: I said the I like him with an analogy that
Speaker 3: what they was to operate all the Nigerian and to
Speaker 3: remove the pendict without anaesthesia. And then the day after
Speaker 3: the operation and told the guy to go on a marathon.
Speaker 3: That's how I see it. I think they were being
Speaker 3: to clever for the world. Maybe maybe they were overthinking this.
Speaker 3: They were going to buy bosses, but they had a
Speaker 3: c NG bus policy. I think they wanted to tie
Speaker 3: in the bosses they were going to buy for the
Speaker 3: subs removal in with the c NG. So when they
Speaker 3: was subtoday on the war.
Speaker 1: Which the president of the one, I don't know if
Speaker 1: that was a plan or if it was that, don't
Speaker 1: know if he planned that first.
Speaker 2: I think they were ready for the announcement was made.
Speaker 3: But when says somebody is gone, revenues came in immediately,
Speaker 3: because somebody removal is a revenue event, So revenues came in.
Speaker 3: And then they did not follow immediately. They were waiting
Speaker 3: for CEE energy bosses that are not not that are
Speaker 3: being deployed in masks as are to day, and I
Speaker 3: think that's a problem. So they allowed the suffering to hit.
Speaker 3: Like you said, PTFO satality.
Speaker 1: So even when you are paying more for your fuel,
Speaker 1: you look to your university, you saw that it was
Speaker 1: being rebuilt.
Speaker 3: You looked at your rules, you could see the roads
Speaker 3: being built. You are like, okay, I get it.
Speaker 1: This morning if I'm pain is rebuilding my inversity, I
Speaker 1: get it, But you will struggle those times they were
Speaker 1: sharing rice the most.
Speaker 2: Subsidy and there were sharing rice.
Speaker 3: You will struggle to put your finger on what these states,
Speaker 3: the federal.
Speaker 2: And the local governments have done with the subsidy removal.
Speaker 3: Because we're more, subsidy is a revenue event, the revenues doubled.
Speaker 2: States got more with system.
Speaker 3: State governors doing wonders in their state. Since some states
Speaker 3: governors that are paying for nonsense in their states. So
Speaker 3: it's a mixed back. But still even the own federal
Speaker 3: goverment itself, what has it done because we're all federal,
Speaker 3: not all the states, but we are all federal, what
Speaker 3: have they done?
Speaker 1: Well, there's a time they are appointed Issa also right
Speaker 1: to sort of monitor he then report that these states
Speaker 1: have done this. I mean PTF was also like this.
Speaker 3: The federal ran it, but it was a bit of
Speaker 3: the states that were over the rose on by the
Speaker 3: states and the federal did it.
Speaker 2: So I just think that's the point that I'm having
Speaker 2: today is trust deficits.
Speaker 1: Right now with Taber administration, because they would only trust
Speaker 1: them to borrow forty five trillion and spend it because
Speaker 1: they got money from field subsidy and they spend That's just.
Speaker 2: My take on that. Ben, I have you here, Ben
Speaker 2: go ahead. Thanks, Thanks octly, Ben, you've got the flow.
Speaker 5: Yeah, thanks for interesting in space.
Speaker 33: I like this just based about the subsidy removal and
Speaker 33: the sort of politians, you know, whatever the government had,
Speaker 33: whatever the was pushing the effect.
Speaker 5: To subsidi remover.
Speaker 9: The idea of okay, remote subsidies.
Speaker 34: So you know, immediately the press of transportation would go
Speaker 34: the idea of okay, let's cushing the effects on transportation
Speaker 34: by buying.
Speaker 35: The bosses c engine bosses. I don't know why they're
Speaker 35: obsessed in vers NGI boats. It's a good one that's
Speaker 35: clean energy.
Speaker 9: So they're saying that.
Speaker 33: They say, let's buy the boss and you know, and
Speaker 33: provide some sort of discounted you know, transports for.
Speaker 5: University's.
Speaker 9: Yeah, the government governor his name again.
Speaker 34: Fubar actually well actually for ours, government actually put a
Speaker 34: lot of bosses.
Speaker 31: I wouldn't say they were enough, but they were just
Speaker 31: enough to be visible. You could say, okay, if you
Speaker 31: go to this place.
Speaker 35: In university, goes to this place in university, stands around
Speaker 35: therefore a while at the same time in the morning
Speaker 35: you would see a boss come.
Speaker 31: Bosses well liberaled in nager positions, always liberally well spaced.
Speaker 9: Yeah, socially remove our boss.
Speaker 5: You knew that is, you know, and the bridal job
Speaker 5: is cheaper.
Speaker 35: But I don't think that the what I would say, say,
Speaker 35: fifty sixty percent reach as the reach of the.
Speaker 31: Bosses in the univers states prior reversity protacles.
Speaker 5: I don't think it was the only replicated. There was
Speaker 5: all replicated in most of the states.
Speaker 9: In Actually, you know, what the president should have.
Speaker 31: Done was to do before you announced the removal of
Speaker 31: jobs here. You know, he announced it only ps.
Speaker 5: This inaugration day, which is usually very tricky.
Speaker 9: You know, there is a love question channel was it was?
Speaker 9: What was was that the plan in that? I mean,
Speaker 9: what was their plan?
Speaker 31: These bosses should have been to have been great and
Speaker 31: deployed as subsidy.
Speaker 36: As you know, subtidy, so that the pushing the effect
Speaker 36: the transportation effects because when if you deploy them marks
Speaker 36: and people can actually feel and asset these poses are
Speaker 36: pay less or just not.
Speaker 5: Fuel did increase.
Speaker 31: Because we started seeing like one hundred percent increasing transports
Speaker 31: where that you go for and spend two undred and
Speaker 31: started to coming three hundred, four hundreds in some cases.
Speaker 9: You know, so if you could pushing that effects.
Speaker 31: Of the increasing transportation plans would have at least had
Speaker 31: something to say, oh, this is what the government need
Speaker 31: to pushing effects and to have some sort.
Speaker 5: Of the multiply effects.
Speaker 9: You know, when those bosses choose and when those bosses
Speaker 9: come into.
Speaker 31: The transportation market and it's sufficient enough to supply, it's
Speaker 31: cetain level of demand.
Speaker 35: Even if it's a test a percent five percent, forty
Speaker 35: percents to tell the drivers the probably comm dive about something.
Speaker 31: They will feel, they may feel some some there's a
Speaker 31: chance depending on the degree, there's a chance that they
Speaker 31: may feel so many so reduced to demand an average
Speaker 31: use to demand, who now incertivis them to really meet
Speaker 31: the levels the increased Because there's a manager and engineers
Speaker 31: always take advantage of situations to favor themselves, you know,
Speaker 31: defer themselves well as the group as an individual.
Speaker 9: Before nagers as the whole.
Speaker 37: So there's always a chance that the drivers move that
Speaker 37: look for to make money also make the same amount
Speaker 37: of money you're making.
Speaker 21: It's the chance that it's supposed to increase it from.
Speaker 5: Per say two hundred to to to three hundred.
Speaker 21: We can actually do to fifty and make the same money.
Speaker 37: But we're making well because of everything that is happening
Speaker 37: to take the opportunity are moving to three hundred or.
Speaker 9: Some people who want three fifty.
Speaker 37: So if this this came out in masses and actually
Speaker 37: served at LISTA, I said Testi Percence Woker of.
Speaker 35: The markets in the urban areas protacles, they got to
Speaker 35: know a ble earth that you have a big money
Speaker 35: for transport.
Speaker 5: These bosses actually served.
Speaker 9: That purpose.
Speaker 35: That's forty Testif Percents did they increased the boarding that
Speaker 35: Nagerance would have had to bear as a result of
Speaker 35: the subsidient increase, the subsidies.
Speaker 31: Removal, you know the transports increased subsidies removal.
Speaker 21: Well, I don't know how to have but he guess
Speaker 21: understand Dransy. The boarding agents will have had to be
Speaker 21: would have been less.
Speaker 31: And this administration just by doing this adminstration that needs
Speaker 31: to see, Yes, removed subsidy but immediately this is what
Speaker 31: we did to cushion the effects. But they failed to
Speaker 31: me if you really feel that, I think seam tried
Speaker 31: the team tried to be cstain.
Speaker 21: Level generally as because for the fair they felt that
Speaker 21: there was.
Speaker 5: No can'tiable cushing effects. The buying of rice is rubbish.
Speaker 35: See god man just went to your market and both
Speaker 35: rights from local local rights from both right.
Speaker 5: And as changed Nigerias.
Speaker 31: Now what that does is that's who give the it
Speaker 31: to increasing the demand of rice.
Speaker 5: From the from the distribute of the farmers.
Speaker 31: So they will now have they will not have the
Speaker 31: some sort of insensitive it's incentive.
Speaker 5: To evil put the prices higher.
Speaker 31: If you notice when they were when they go mad
Speaker 31: with buyer rising both.
Speaker 35: From them and distributed in Nigeria's the prissent rise was
Speaker 35: increasing like as was happening, things was increasing.
Speaker 21: Then okay, now let's even look at the rise that
Speaker 21: they bought.
Speaker 9: How many people are many important? You have actually even
Speaker 9: go this rice?
Speaker 4: You know?
Speaker 34: So if you've got mentioned that has done lots, they've
Speaker 34: done some good things.
Speaker 21: They've done a lot of batter and doing a lot
Speaker 21: of good things.
Speaker 35: But that rise rise buying as pushing effect something is rubbish.
Speaker 31: It failed did not have as I had in negative
Speaker 31: effects on the coast of rice.
Speaker 21: And the rise and never gets an a j so,
Speaker 21: uh that was That's what I wanted to say on
Speaker 21: you know, the.
Speaker 9: Substances remove issue. You know what I initially I.
Speaker 31: Thought it was about five six rillion that we see
Speaker 31: that the figured around twenty billion that we see now.
Speaker 9: The main issue not.
Speaker 5: Spend What are we spending this money on?
Speaker 21: You know, what are we doing with this twenty billion dollars?
Speaker 5: What? What?
Speaker 9: What have you people doing with this money?
Speaker 5: You know?
Speaker 31: So that the issue around subsidy expenditure, expenditures the main
Speaker 31: issue when we talk about.
Speaker 21: The examine, about the thing about the.
Speaker 2: Yeah, go for it.
Speaker 9: Yeah, so when we where we score, when.
Speaker 5: We talk about them, yes, we've.
Speaker 9: All established that.
Speaker 2: Okay is good.
Speaker 9: But the issue for me for there is the coastal
Speaker 9: borry and.
Speaker 35: Once you spend it, when you spend the debtor as
Speaker 35: you expended to this government has been very very very irresponsible.
Speaker 35: If you look at the twenty five budgets, look at
Speaker 35: the latest instation by Nurse, look at the latest insertion dynasts.
Speaker 31: You see a lot of questionable a lot of questionable insertions.
Speaker 38: The media.
Speaker 31: You are located about several billion, if I know, yes, okay,
Speaker 31: about two Mayvillio.
Speaker 5: Ministries that are not even scenity.
Speaker 31: The deformed ministry of sports on end and existing some
Speaker 31: departs and existing.
Speaker 35: Then you guys are I think most of you would
Speaker 35: have heard about the street issue about it.
Speaker 21: It was even then six million for mons street lights.
Speaker 22: You know.
Speaker 31: So if if you investigates the latest insertions in me,
Speaker 31: it's filled with a lot of questionable projects, questionable.
Speaker 9: Expenditures. Videos entis what that all these.
Speaker 21: Things you have to put that, these things to add
Speaker 21: the podcast?
Speaker 9: What these things?
Speaker 21: How are they going to benefit the life of Nigeria?
Speaker 9: You know?
Speaker 31: So the level of physical discipline is very very high.
Speaker 21: So when you brew, it's not inherent what you spend
Speaker 21: the morning.
Speaker 9: That you go, what do you spend it on?
Speaker 5: And also the cost of burying on the.
Speaker 21: On the issue of the episod.
Speaker 35: Reserve is lending, reserves, lends, all those things are very bad.
Speaker 35: Pledging your future kludo to assess cash now is very
Speaker 35: very bad.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 9: So we need to just a roundo.
Speaker 31: We need to be very conscious of the cost of
Speaker 31: the morning, the cost of growing and what we spend
Speaker 31: it to be raised, what we spend the expenditure we
Speaker 31: spend it to be very concious of this thank.
Speaker 2: You, Thank you. Ben appreciate that those comments, well well done. Again,
Speaker 2: we're just going back and saying the same same thing.
Speaker 5: Right.
Speaker 2: We don't mind the borrowing.
Speaker 3: But if the government tomorrow Monday morning, was to come
Speaker 3: out a list of projects that we're going to spend
Speaker 3: this on, this will actually help the government because we'll say, okay,
Speaker 3: we want to build these power plans we're going to
Speaker 3: get in the hour. I wanted to build this route.
Speaker 3: People who understand when you stay on to borrow twenty
Speaker 3: two billion dollars for the five trillion nira and we
Speaker 3: have nowhere of Now we're going I'm going to buy
Speaker 3: a new jets and New York's new SUV is of course, I'm.
Speaker 2: Going to ask questions.
Speaker 1: So it's your job to give the information which you
Speaker 1: have to piloce An f o I to know where
Speaker 1: the government wants to spend our attacks revenues.
Speaker 20: Killer.
Speaker 2: Let's have you clear, Let's have you.
Speaker 7: Clear.
Speaker 2: Ok, yeah, I see you guys. Please go ahead.
Speaker 39: So I've heard about this, all theban nutation has done
Speaker 39: and all of that.
Speaker 4: It gets.
Speaker 9: Two years after the policies that have been.
Speaker 4: I would have to say it's been a fire it's, uh,
Speaker 4: our good trajectory hasn't increased. That big has continued.
Speaker 5: Because you could see.
Speaker 4: Some markers of consumption collapsed.
Speaker 40: It's the economy is essentially being propped up by government
Speaker 40: spending our net exports having.
Speaker 4: Really reasons per see aescually in real terms.
Speaker 41: Yes, and nominal terms, it's increased, but when you corrected
Speaker 41: for US dollars, it's.
Speaker 4: Even strike me with the US dollar. So one time
Speaker 4: has to start one dream?
Speaker 5: Was this.
Speaker 9: Idea?
Speaker 23: It's I know there are a lot of rule I
Speaker 23: was saying, was re surprised.
Speaker 3: You please try everything, try try to stell your audio
Speaker 3: your you're agreed, and I'll stell your audio if you
Speaker 3: don't mind.
Speaker 4: Okay, okay, sorry.
Speaker 2: Yea, yes, like you're agreed, and I just just look
Speaker 2: at the mic when you're speaking here.
Speaker 7: Okay.
Speaker 4: So I think, like, uh.
Speaker 41: So when you look at all those different markers of
Speaker 41: of the economy, there doesn't seem to me to be
Speaker 41: home grace that we need.
Speaker 21: I at all point.
Speaker 5: I think the first six.
Speaker 41: To one year I was on because we mole boots
Speaker 41: or who said, oh yes, maybe the divardation made sense
Speaker 41: or we have to do it, and all of that boats.
Speaker 40: Three years in and we're looking at we're looking.
Speaker 41: At podcasts going forward that suggests de people go to
Speaker 41: be about works three points or three point five percent.
Speaker 41: Our population Grok is worse two point five two point
Speaker 41: four percent.
Speaker 4: The need well essentially meaning that the average.
Speaker 41: Persons for capital income is increasing by.
Speaker 4: Just one the saints or less.
Speaker 41: What to say A yeah, like beginning we are talking
Speaker 41: about here because first of.
Speaker 4: All, we are we are disablittle Magan society. Let's not
Speaker 4: say we are not.
Speaker 41: The average Maggion is really really suffering. And Coverty has difference.
Speaker 41: It doesn't it doesn't often the PACA. And if a
Speaker 41: doct of insecurity, I know a look at point of
Speaker 41: important talk about all we need to declare the b
Speaker 41: best way to self in security in the country is
Speaker 41: by fully employing people. You can carry all the all
Speaker 41: the soldiers, all the police, all you want people that
Speaker 41: many young men out there that do not have the future,
Speaker 41: people that are in job or do not or what
Speaker 41: gainfully employed, they.
Speaker 4: Will resort to carrying arms are doing the governments lessons.
Speaker 41: The social implications are hand know and stations.
Speaker 5: Isn't just even children.
Speaker 40: Going in this period you can imagine when in the
Speaker 40: winters are all lost and people have to ask the
Speaker 40: pacture of children, they are not feeding their children as
Speaker 40: much as they can.
Speaker 41: So the twenty years around, we have children that can
Speaker 41: adequately think they're not very nutric because the foundation of
Speaker 41: the nutritional foundation and has do has.
Speaker 4: Also as we then start to create a style.
Speaker 41: Everything about the educational system is the educational system.
Speaker 4: This thing is a social economic implications that will last
Speaker 4: breaking a course, the quarry.
Speaker 41: The economy and sociocology complications that will go to last.
Speaker 41: Taking now the new good situation has now as our
Speaker 41: compounded on.
Speaker 21: Top of a terrible situation.
Speaker 41: Let's beginning, let's just almost previously. So in the beginning
Speaker 41: of this year, the New York Times Sports reported that
Speaker 41: about thirty one year my journe at least thirty Yes,
Speaker 41: that's about what it's Several of the definition were we
Speaker 41: all going together without citing now be do we need
Speaker 41: to be pros became really arrest the ficult those people
Speaker 41: after look out as committing co at the start at
Speaker 41: unique and start coming everything. That's a lot of the
Speaker 41: implication for me.
Speaker 4: Booking back, I would say.
Speaker 41: That I was wrong about the should have been done
Speaker 41: gradually you do less devaluecourrency.
Speaker 4: By the level I think it was done so drastically.
Speaker 42: Do you see.
Speaker 41: People's income stock cases in any countries.
Speaker 21: It's in country for economic because.
Speaker 4: In Argentina the work of pet and this economic difficult
Speaker 4: on the.
Speaker 41: Speed and before the one on the report it's great
Speaker 41: and going.
Speaker 5: To really improved. Yes, I'm giving.
Speaker 4: It comes up in that giving.
Speaker 5: It comes up when it's economy has it's improved, and
Speaker 5: kind he has has.
Speaker 4: Has activity dequence.
Speaker 41: Now the issue of energy, you are the fad that
Speaker 41: you see public accounts and you just simply say, philosophsag
Speaker 41: is gone and means of the humans, prices.
Speaker 21: Of prices of the few increased by six.
Speaker 4: Foods in some parts of the country, and.
Speaker 41: You somehow think that they of the country stopper.
Speaker 2: Like energy is.
Speaker 4: Anttude to every ethnic activity.
Speaker 41: When it's increasing, you essentially are ticking of the fact
Speaker 41: individuals you you can't stay or even the you alt
Speaker 41: bring out and buying boots or band of bud a.
Speaker 3: Bun a.
Speaker 4: Studio and all these.
Speaker 32: Other things people and people say.
Speaker 41: And one of these are the things that that are
Speaker 41: that are stupid a subsisting people in the economy.
Speaker 4: I think it was a very rash decision.
Speaker 41: Gradually ya, I know it is just sixty It is
Speaker 41: one of business people don't like.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you do like to talk about but it is
Speaker 4: not a clay appointingly pay that gradual.
Speaker 42: Gy was it?
Speaker 2: Video? I mean clear, clear, don't want to cut you off,
Speaker 2: but let's let's have you just for time. Yeah, just
Speaker 2: to speak yet, okay, okay.
Speaker 41: Okay, So that's so those twenty seconds, I'm going to
Speaker 41: meet these points. So you so I'm can't begreen at
Speaker 41: about and a half percents us that for our GDP
Speaker 41: to move from the corrent about Stronographic seems to want
Speaker 41: to get billion dollars.
Speaker 9: You can take about twenty.
Speaker 5: One years and that's the chorus A capital grows to be.
Speaker 41: But you're a guessing if you take about seventy seven.
Speaker 5: Years, now, how many of those cones seventy seven years from.
Speaker 41: Inn from about station seven from environments and it's something
Speaker 41: myra but by hour six hundred, which is stimate less
Speaker 41: than what's jennap Electica in two thousand fort wall talk
Speaker 41: about thirty thousand years with us, we should think about
Speaker 41: these things in years.
Speaker 4: In people's lives, years, our lives, Parlie. Please let us
Speaker 4: be this open.
Speaker 41: Just just just roughly the valley things increase energy price
Speaker 41: that will obviously he was.
Speaker 5: In any very rough and I think the nine we
Speaker 5: are going to pay for it.
Speaker 41: As a country, this should be talking about putting the
Speaker 41: pailies and brings more families.
Speaker 4: That stop that collapsed in the new value of people's.
Speaker 21: People still ten.
Speaker 4: That's the Detai group pure and.
Speaker 9: Me twenty nine.
Speaker 5: So conte, thank you.
Speaker 3: Very much, thank you, I mean great, greatful points that
Speaker 3: I think you bring up some context because that's just
Speaker 3: just let that speak, just let speak, just let that speak,
Speaker 3: because I have waited, just real quick and let me get.
Speaker 2: Right just really quickly. You jumped off. Let me have
Speaker 2: your computer bright that's right, Okay, that's yeah, I know you.
Speaker 2: You you dropped off. H you walked down. Which were
Speaker 2: you're speaking about last time? Okay, I'm almost done.
Speaker 16: But look, like I said for me, if we were
Speaker 16: punctrating this the furderate government, I think we should started
Speaker 16: governors more accountable and like I said earlier, if every
Speaker 16: government decided to put a factory of whatever products to
Speaker 16: add value to it, in their state. For those cops
Speaker 16: were moved out of their stick in each of their
Speaker 16: local government.
Speaker 5: Like I said to you, my your fly eve already's on.
Speaker 5: I don't believe praising him. I'm not praising him. I
Speaker 5: would rather see him do just some small factory that
Speaker 5: in local government. We are those children that run.
Speaker 16: Around after speaking in the village square, that they.
Speaker 5: Will be running around the city. They will get sports
Speaker 5: more job to do. Government need to increase any capacity
Speaker 5: of an eighth citizen. I don't want to do it
Speaker 5: in this evaluation where even when the money was not
Speaker 5: before me, when Donata had a very good group god
Speaker 5: six something billion, we didn't do anything with it.
Speaker 16: So I don't want to live in this warrior of
Speaker 16: legnard you want to want I don't care. South Korea's
Speaker 16: currency is not the not want to want to dollar,
Speaker 16: but today their production accountry until we start working off
Speaker 16: what our output of our.
Speaker 5: Production, and that production is not going to be mainly
Speaker 5: is the state governors. State governors and local governments. These
Speaker 5: are people who need.
Speaker 16: To start putting a fire in the if those people
Speaker 16: are able to do those things, and I've said there's
Speaker 16: no reasons.
Speaker 5: State governors also chelf food.
Speaker 7: In their states.
Speaker 9: Food.
Speaker 5: I'm not talking about any other thing.
Speaker 21: I'm talking about.
Speaker 5: Food, and let us not deceive ourselves hunger.
Speaker 16: As old as I am, as far back past nineteen
Speaker 16: eighty two, I remember when mocos and.
Speaker 5: People have now started it does be. I remember how
Speaker 5: people used to shove.
Speaker 9: Away or hungry.
Speaker 16: I remember when my uncles used to see the back
Speaker 16: before they could get when they left university.
Speaker 5: Our set do not get it.
Speaker 16: So the point is that, look, there are decisions that
Speaker 16: ought to have been taking twenty thirty.
Speaker 5: Forty years ago that we refuse. We continue to play
Speaker 5: polities with it. And this is one thing I would
Speaker 5: say that to the last. We need to stop politicizing
Speaker 5: issues in Nigeria.
Speaker 4: If we have.
Speaker 5: Problems, let's face the problem and fix the problem.
Speaker 16: Let's stop giving it political or relation. And the reason
Speaker 16: is that when we give a political coloration, will never
Speaker 16: get solution to be because at.
Speaker 5: The end of the day, the person that is coming
Speaker 5: to defend it is also going to give this spot.
Speaker 5: We also have robbers spoken about the students learn that's
Speaker 5: going on.
Speaker 16: We think that twousands of our students that normally when
Speaker 16: they get admission, they couldn't follow their education, they drop out.
Speaker 16: Then at the second time, it's one thousand, five hundred
Speaker 16: students right jam, at the end.
Speaker 5: Of the day, the numbers that we go to that
Speaker 5: school will not be more than two hundred. But no,
Speaker 5: it's a different boogame. And for me, these are the
Speaker 5: kind of things I think the government invests more. Let's
Speaker 5: even produce more of the students out of school.
Speaker 16: Perhaps some of them become productive, do something to business.
Speaker 5: To add to the economy.
Speaker 4: And for me, we need to spend more in our health.
Speaker 16: We need to start the health system. It's not going
Speaker 16: to be fair, eral able takes.
Speaker 9: Need to do more.
Speaker 5: It's still black mind health insurance, insurance for these people.
Speaker 5: Everybody's guys, thank you very welcome. Guys.
Speaker 2: Just gust to speak. I do get it. I don't
Speaker 2: cut anybody off, but just be mad for all the time.
Speaker 2: We have all opinions to be heard.
Speaker 3: I don't know everyone that has had or will speak,
Speaker 3: but just just let everyone speak, right, you got to
Speaker 3: go ahead, you gotta flop.
Speaker 5: Okay, Yeah, What what I would just say is this,
Speaker 5: I see the situation.
Speaker 12: In Nigeria is our problems start to be politicized and
Speaker 12: what you have is every side of the divide, but
Speaker 12: for the government side and the opposing side. You see
Speaker 12: a lot of propaganda about the issues. Every issue like
Speaker 12: for instance, now let's look at this issue of subsidy.
Speaker 5: When subsidy was remote.
Speaker 12: It's very very erroneous for anybody to say, like as
Speaker 12: if the money was the money Nigeria I had somewhere,
Speaker 12: and when you remove subsidy you saved the money.
Speaker 5: It forgets it. Currently, when Powarry was there, the Minister.
Speaker 12: And Finance then was saying they were trying to use
Speaker 12: two point two billion dollars you re bound to finance
Speaker 12: subsidy and that any PC was not remaining anything to
Speaker 12: the federation accounts. If we listen towards this, former Governor
Speaker 12: of Dusty said then opacity that they just go to
Speaker 12: a budget for fake and what the governor was doing
Speaker 12: was just to be pending money and that was all
Speaker 12: we had with that the how many trillions of night
Speaker 12: that in ways that means so really subsidy was not
Speaker 12: the money that you had. You were actually borrowing to
Speaker 12: fund the subsidy. So when you remove the subsidy, what you.
Speaker 43: Had ended up doing is you don't borrow anymore to
Speaker 43: face the subs.
Speaker 5: To pay the subsidy.
Speaker 43: Then ANYPC can then pay the money into the federation
Speaker 43: accounts and we need to unders and any money that
Speaker 43: come into the federation that appre shiate the constituency share
Speaker 43: be shared our.
Speaker 5: More detreaties of government. So that said, where I blame
Speaker 5: the Noobook.
Speaker 12: Government stays the government does not live by example you
Speaker 12: remove subsidy. I don't expect that it's the fier government
Speaker 12: that would bude municipal transport in all the state or
Speaker 12: the federation. But I expect the government to live by
Speaker 12: example Nabuja to buy a bus.
Speaker 9: This for people to be able to move.
Speaker 5: Within the Budja.
Speaker 44: Then you then't give a kind of disample for these
Speaker 44: states because if you look by the state's.
Speaker 5: Government, it is due to the basic government.
Speaker 44: To provide municipal buses in these states where you frommso
Speaker 44: city education primary as the education is within the responsibility
Speaker 44: of these states.
Speaker 5: How many primary as the other school does?
Speaker 2: The er government asked?
Speaker 44: And then you look at primary as center because if
Speaker 44: as are done, the effect of the subsidy will be
Speaker 44: less on our people.
Speaker 5: This level of subsidy remover.
Speaker 9: That we've had.
Speaker 12: How drastic it is that surprise from two hundred and
Speaker 12: ar to one thousand, no amount.
Speaker 5: Of politive and soviet.
Speaker 44: You have to preace the issue to write bosses two
Speaker 44: more people make primary as second education, revampite, let them
Speaker 44: be free and be politative so that people don't need
Speaker 44: to spend money.
Speaker 5: On paying schofee. And then heyse tal center.
Speaker 38: When I was very young and on those.
Speaker 9: States, I go to Hexy, I go to general spect.
Speaker 5: You don't do you go there, you literat, you pregnant.
Speaker 5: We make it bad freely, they don't pay anything is
Speaker 5: needed to be done. That is such a good subsidy.
Speaker 12: And again letland look at this if your object what
Speaker 12: I say Nigeria is there's a lot of message formation.
Speaker 12: Everything is the publicized approach when government presented borrowing plan and.
Speaker 5: I want to take all of what one of this
Speaker 5: dose that okay, that is what they want to borrow.
Speaker 5: And mister, I would like to.
Speaker 12: Ask you, is there any eighty work to d the
Speaker 12: past twenty one to borrow any government?
Speaker 2: Yes? Yes, at one at it go yes?
Speaker 5: Why yeah, yes, that's one belong.
Speaker 1: I just think when I said the space, I keep
Speaker 1: it the successful world Back. World Back has about four
Speaker 1: billion in the last six months or year.
Speaker 12: I give it if you tried the if website of
Speaker 12: the world by the last discipsement that was the Ligera's lasted.
Speaker 1: What I'm just telling you is this, if you go
Speaker 1: back and look at the numbers, four billion has gone
Speaker 1: to Nigeria from twenty twenty three four and that's just
Speaker 1: from work. I am well, I am a gift Nigeria
Speaker 1: nearly three billion. Right, we have about thirty five billion
Speaker 1: in europe bonds. The point I'm making is that you
Speaker 1: know you've fraized. After you finished, I don't interrupt you.
Speaker 1: If you have a medium term plan, that plan says
Speaker 1: we want to borrow, you are right. It's a plan
Speaker 1: to borrow, right.
Speaker 2: Like a projection.
Speaker 1: The projection there is eight trillion one two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight,
Speaker 1: fourteen five. The next year is about seven trillion, so
Speaker 1: about fifteen triller for two years in one go. The
Speaker 1: letter that the President roses for forty five trillion.
Speaker 5: So I ask you what I'm saying is that that
Speaker 5: came to the National Assembly. That is a borrowing.
Speaker 2: It's not it's not a plan.
Speaker 1: It's their request for the permission to borrow and spend.
Speaker 1: The borrowing plan is already in the medium term framework.
Speaker 12: So this letter, okay, the question to ask you now,
Speaker 12: is there an entity will row morning to night without
Speaker 12: that that morning project?
Speaker 2: Yes, the world?
Speaker 1: What project is nutrition tied to? When the world but
Speaker 1: the five million dollars for nutrition? What project was it
Speaker 1: tied to.
Speaker 2: When we got the i MS. It's not.
Speaker 9: You can borrow.
Speaker 2: You can borrow. Listen, I'm giving you the course. The
Speaker 2: d M or that of his website.
Speaker 1: Pull up the use of funds. You see budgets, supports,
Speaker 1: you see railways, you see telecom. You see a line
Speaker 1: called budget support.
Speaker 2: Boet support is the highest use.
Speaker 3: Of borrowings in Nigeria. DMO go the DMO website.
Speaker 12: What I'm saying is what I am saying is when
Speaker 12: you have that kind of plank, comes the National Assembly.
Speaker 12: It's supposed to be assembly right for April night. Make
Speaker 12: important to real look at okay, what is this borrowing relief?
Speaker 2: Where we borrowed when we brought the World Bank?
Speaker 3: Any debates, I've had the space here with the World
Speaker 3: Bank iever, We've had the World Bank space here.
Speaker 2: We don't go to celt To debate anything we borrow.
Speaker 2: The World Banking.
Speaker 5: Is very stringent. The conditions are very strict gent.
Speaker 2: But don't.
Speaker 3: I hear you and I'm saying that, I'm answering your question.
Speaker 3: Have we ever debated the World Bank notes in Nigeria?
Speaker 2: We borrowed. We just broth a million dollars. I believe
Speaker 2: the last two months.
Speaker 12: Has ever been any borrowing from the World Bank?
Speaker 5: That does assembly?
Speaker 2: If democratic?
Speaker 9: Not during the military?
Speaker 2: What answered you over and.
Speaker 5: The quest I'm trying to this.
Speaker 9: If we have this situation with.
Speaker 5: Democracy, we have the National simply.
Speaker 12: That and the president essense of this power to sicids
Speaker 12: you can have one and waiting absolute power that there.
Speaker 5: Must be check and pallas. If you want to do
Speaker 5: this thing, you.
Speaker 12: Ask the National Assembly. The National Assembly has to approve?
Speaker 2: What about? What about?
Speaker 5: What? What? What?
Speaker 2: What about? What's about the state of the emergency? Who
Speaker 2: was it not done? After its approved?
Speaker 3: I mean we can the president are now sident no
Speaker 3: no no no no signing the state of emergency?
Speaker 12: They can make and the constution man did that. The
Speaker 12: National semily most session we discibled this to had reject
Speaker 12: assembly during the time of Googgeny.
Speaker 44: The rejected it okay led by timplecause most looks where diff.
Speaker 5: Is coming from. Give the National Assembly are supposed to do.
Speaker 9: Don't do this.
Speaker 1: You'renderstand nobody. I want to take you to take you
Speaker 1: back and we have about the debt you. I want
Speaker 1: to take you back to the substy just for put
Speaker 1: that listening. Just as we understand when you pay subsidy.
Speaker 1: When we say the federal does not pay subsidy, the
Speaker 1: Federation of Nigeria, the Federation pays subsidy. Federation meets federal,
Speaker 1: state and local government they pay subject.
Speaker 2: What does this mean? It means that when n NPC.
Speaker 3: Sells crude oil NBACY brings the dot the dollar, the
Speaker 3: dollar back to Nigeria to deceive to JP Morgan account.
Speaker 3: NNPC owns that dollar. Then n NPC is supposed.
Speaker 2: To pay the nyra to fuck.
Speaker 3: So when we sell coute oil NPC and the dollars,
Speaker 3: then NNPC remains the nyra they converted to CPN They
Speaker 3: remain the nyra to the FUC. When we pay subsidy,
Speaker 3: n NPC is the one paying the subsidy. N NPC
Speaker 3: not borrowing n NPC son n PC would debit that
Speaker 3: nirah and limit nothing.
Speaker 2: That's why method itself.
Speaker 3: For three years NPC had remitted nothing because you are using.
Speaker 2: The subsidy money.
Speaker 5: Let me let me take you on that.
Speaker 2: Please, sir, please let me finish. Then you can. Please,
Speaker 2: I'll let you. I let you talk, I let you speak, sir,
Speaker 2: allow me explain. You will speak.
Speaker 3: I'm not cutting you off. I let you speak at
Speaker 3: not interrupt you once. Allow me speak that you can speak.
Speaker 3: I'm explaining. So listening and follow the conversation. Subsidy is
Speaker 3: paid by the n n PC. That's so when the
Speaker 3: NNPC pays is subsidy, there is no remittance to fuck.
Speaker 2: So is the federation that pace. So when you remove subsidy,
Speaker 2: what happens to that firsial money? Money flows into the
Speaker 2: federitional account.
Speaker 3: That's why you see today FARC has doubled because there's
Speaker 3: no more subsidy payment and NPC is not remitting the
Speaker 3: full amount to fact. That's why it states at the
Speaker 3: federal government have gotten more revenues from FAK.
Speaker 2: Please go ahead, sir, ah, yeah, please go ahead. Are
Speaker 2: you want to speak or okay?
Speaker 3: The second point about the borrowing in twenty twenty four December,
Speaker 3: note the data of putting. December twenty twenty four, Nigeria
Speaker 3: borrowed two billion dollars to implement the twenty twenty four budget.
Speaker 3: Tell me again December twenty twenty four, that's at the
Speaker 3: end of the year. We borrowed two.
Speaker 1: Billion at a go to implement the twenty twenty four projects.
Speaker 1: When you ask, can the agency borrows the five billion? No,
Speaker 1: what's going to go and borrows with five billion? But
Speaker 1: what you are saying is that you want to borrow
Speaker 1: twenty five billion.
Speaker 2: Question is for what the.
Speaker 1: Simplical doors can have a blank check for. What do
Speaker 1: you want to borrow the money for? Is it going
Speaker 1: to be used for a And then you say it
Speaker 1: so that we come and we ask you questions. We
Speaker 1: are citizens and taxpayers. When you borrow, it is tax hike.
Speaker 3: So as the government, you must come back to the
Speaker 3: people and hold yourself to be accountable.
Speaker 1: That's all I say. If I is not going to
Speaker 1: spay again, We're going to move on to the collar.
Speaker 1: At the color, you've got the floor. At the collar,
Speaker 1: you've got the floor. Let's get ken KBOUTI Ken please
Speaker 1: go ahead.
Speaker 5: Thank you very much everyone. It's great discussion and you know,
Speaker 5: focusing on the topic.
Speaker 45: Miss Nigeria and Nager entering the dead and with the
Speaker 45: boat plans for having the borrowing plants that that the
Speaker 45: government is possuming, especially with the recent.
Speaker 5: You know what we have discovered about the twenty one
Speaker 5: billion dollar loan request.
Speaker 46: I mean, it's the highest, you know, single number I've
Speaker 46: heard in terms of loan for Nigeria. And the first
Speaker 46: thing I did when I saw that headline was I
Speaker 46: have to start reading to know exactly what is being
Speaker 46: tied to this amount.
Speaker 5: It is ambitious.
Speaker 12: I was expecting to see something like the The goal
Speaker 12: of this amount is to is to upgrade our I.
Speaker 46: Don't know, maybe transmission line in the country and the miniatures.
Speaker 46: It is to a super gride, which I will support
Speaker 46: such such amount because of course to have super grid
Speaker 46: in the country you need to spend It's not close
Speaker 46: to that kind of you know amount. I was also
Speaker 46: checking to see this amount the types with projects that
Speaker 46: will connect all the major cities by concrete highways, you
Speaker 46: know that will that will guarantee their effectiveness over fifty
Speaker 46: to one hundred years, and also connect all the major
Speaker 46: cities by rail. I couldn't see anything like that, and
Speaker 46: I had to go and look at the video where
Speaker 46: the Senate President was read the letter, and he read
Speaker 46: the letter and there was no purpose for this loan,
Speaker 46: and knowing that we already have a midim borrowing plant
Speaker 46: that is already approved.
Speaker 5: So what is this loom going to be useful.
Speaker 46: With this type of behavior. This is very dangerous precedents.
Speaker 46: We are, we are, we are, we are trying to
Speaker 46: to to establish. Here we saw how reckless the Boar regime,
Speaker 46: together with with imly printed money, without records, without regard
Speaker 46: for an existing law regarding.
Speaker 5: How much we can print, and borrowing ways and means.
Speaker 46: Now we are seeing a situation where a blank check
Speaker 46: is being requested for this amount, this amount of loan
Speaker 46: without it being a tied to something, and and and
Speaker 46: and we know what our Senate present is capable of.
Speaker 2: We've seen it on live TV where where the National.
Speaker 12: Assembly would vote on a particular issue maybe years or no,
Speaker 12: and the man would would strike his his his judgment
Speaker 12: and picked the other the other decision favor what he
Speaker 12: wants to do.
Speaker 5: This is dangerous and I think a jelous.
Speaker 21: Need to speak.
Speaker 46: We need to be shouting on this because yes, they
Speaker 46: might say, we are not in a death trap. You
Speaker 46: might say standards are Post just recently upgraded our rating
Speaker 46: to I think a BB.
Speaker 5: One or something like that.
Speaker 46: They just recently upgraded us, and and that that might mean, oh, okay,
Speaker 46: the course is clear, we can borrow and there's no
Speaker 46: there's no risk anywhere with our economy is.
Speaker 5: Doing very well.
Speaker 2: Our economy is not doing well.
Speaker 12: If more than half of your population is in abject poversy,
Speaker 12: we're not doing well. If our GDP move from number
Speaker 12: one overnight to number four in Africa, we are not
Speaker 12: doing well.
Speaker 21: We are not doing well.
Speaker 5: I'm I'm really, I'm really shocked.
Speaker 46: Our death corrently stands up at about Mondon and forty
Speaker 46: five trillion narra trillion.
Speaker 5: You can't pay merely billionaire.
Speaker 2: I am a flown And then you come.
Speaker 5: The next morning say you want to borrow into one billion.
Speaker 12: That is a past so absolutely nothing if president, but
Speaker 12: it can come today and say this project, this money
Speaker 12: is for this project, and this is what we plan
Speaker 12: to achieve, and we want to we want to build
Speaker 12: code rooms that will that will, that will, that will.
Speaker 46: Apple say the fifty percent of agricultural produce that we
Speaker 46: lose every year before that crash the prices of food producing.
Speaker 46: The idea can one hundred percent and for it because
Speaker 46: I know that there's going to be value for that loan.
Speaker 46: What what happens in Angela that we keep awarding contracts
Speaker 46: that are that are overblooken over price contracts. The The
Speaker 46: question on ther Girl is the cost par kilometer of
Speaker 46: that may four percent of the seven hundred kilometer road.
Speaker 46: The cost park kilometer can do it.
Speaker 12: Is high risk with respect to what you can do
Speaker 12: in any part of the world, even in the US.
Speaker 12: In Europe, cost par of that role is about sixteen
Speaker 12: million dollars.
Speaker 2: Okay, but they built it right. It's built right.
Speaker 3: I'm just saying I don't have any problem in do
Speaker 3: but what is the value? I hear you, but I
Speaker 3: don't think I think. I think we're focused on this
Speaker 3: course parkilimeter.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 1: I saw someone say this about fourteen them. Look at
Speaker 1: the difficult I was giving me here, they built it.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 2: For me, it's like, well, I've had people that have
Speaker 2: taken loans and not done anything. This one has been built.
Speaker 5: But let's not justify.
Speaker 46: Let's not justify that practice because we're talking about money
Speaker 46: that could have sixty kilometers.
Speaker 2: I hear, I hear.
Speaker 3: So I'm hearing this fourteen million, fourteen point two million
Speaker 3: part kilometer.
Speaker 2: That's what it does.
Speaker 21: It's still more.
Speaker 5: It's still more to the Chinese contractor to do that
Speaker 5: a job probably I don't know, maybe seven and to
Speaker 5: course five.
Speaker 21: Million to build in time cont from China and.
Speaker 5: Proli said, your per.
Speaker 2: And literally sickness.
Speaker 12: Fully roads you want, I do need to or even
Speaker 12: more realize that I mean that.
Speaker 46: So you don't do so except you gification there that
Speaker 46: contact that can do kind of drobing board the Okay.
Speaker 5: This is the only guy that can do in the
Speaker 5: world whatever.
Speaker 9: Is sick No, I can't.
Speaker 2: I I'm just asking. That was an good question. I
Speaker 2: agree with the broad points you're making.
Speaker 5: I e.
Speaker 3: Perhaps it's expensive, but it was built in twelve months
Speaker 3: and twelve months building twelve months. I will be more
Speaker 3: concerned if it is not extended out.
Speaker 5: For me.
Speaker 2: You are how you Nigeria where we talked about money.
Speaker 2: I approved, there's not money.
Speaker 1: Dis First, there is no like you've said, you can't
Speaker 1: go from region to region on a good road in Nigeria.
Speaker 2: In this road can.
Speaker 1: Extend and can do what they said they wants to do.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, then thank you very much. But I
Speaker 1: have a feeling that this is the end of this road.
Speaker 1: He has already flown the kite and said they've met
Speaker 1: a swamp. He has already flown that kite that they
Speaker 1: saw swamp. When I have a post soon on Twitter.
Speaker 1: When I saw this road and I'm going to build
Speaker 1: this road, they said in ten years or so. No,
Speaker 1: they said they're going to be the road in four years.
Speaker 1: On that in the world, I said, it's not possible
Speaker 1: to build this road in teny even in ten years
Speaker 1: because of the swamps. The reason why the East West
Speaker 1: road is not built is because of the swamps. You
Speaker 1: can't build a road like this in four years or
Speaker 1: even eight years of table.
Speaker 2: It's not possible. And it's only beggar that can do
Speaker 2: it because they are large, they have the equipment. They
Speaker 2: can come.
Speaker 1: Well, tribalist, you are doing it, but I will not
Speaker 1: seen it. Now we're not going to nat That was
Speaker 1: saying Ogun state he's staying there swamping urgen, which Nigerian
Speaker 1: does not know. There are swamps outside the Legos e
Speaker 1: Leco itself. I grew up in Legos where you had mobile.
Speaker 1: This was what year was this in nineteen ninety No,
Speaker 1: nineteen nineteen eighties. My friend went to visit our friend
Speaker 1: whose father lived in these Chevron quarters.
Speaker 3: Beside that mobile where the mobile was now. I remember
Speaker 3: we were dragging. We'll go through it went through swamps, monkeys, crocodiles,
Speaker 3: and you get to that where mobile is now, it
Speaker 3: was swamp and crocodiles on all sides. Then mobile doors
Speaker 3: built that in there. There was no first second or
Speaker 3: tron about. It was just that mobile thing there. I
Speaker 3: was like, why is this guy living here?
Speaker 1: His father's a oil company guy, why is he living
Speaker 1: here around them?
Speaker 3: You I'm not exaggerating. They were pan swamp like a swamp.
Speaker 3: You go on the bridge, if you look left or right,
Speaker 3: it's a swamp. A mobile building in there. So even
Speaker 3: legos that call that whole like you face one, it's
Speaker 3: still a swamp. And it goes from legos like this
Speaker 3: all the way to Cameroon the same thing. So that's
Speaker 3: why East West Food and East Twest Food is not
Speaker 3: in the coast. So it's in the town, it's in
Speaker 3: the land, it's a lot of the area, and still
Speaker 3: they can't build it. Five many years Lemeter and you
Speaker 3: want to build a coastal road in eight years, it's
Speaker 3: not possible because it's just you need one guy can
Speaker 3: do it and you need a lot of money.
Speaker 1: So but here we are, so this should is fantastic.
Speaker 1: I think it's it's going to end here. They will
Speaker 1: do a few things.
Speaker 3: They do Calabar, they'll do fanfare on Calabar land, but
Speaker 3: once they cross Calabar and enter the swamps, that's too stop.
Speaker 2: They will entire elections.
Speaker 3: Not noble to should they gain until after elections then
Speaker 3: somebody will come.
Speaker 2: They will build. Being on the late land side, they
Speaker 2: will take pictures what this.
Speaker 1: Swamp is the issue. The coastal road is proble because
Speaker 1: on the coast. So unfortunately it is.
Speaker 2: It is what it is right.
Speaker 1: I hope they build it because it will boost commers.
Speaker 1: There's no East West link. From nineteen sixty till today,
Speaker 1: Nigeria does not have an East West link none. So
Speaker 1: whether you like to Nuvu or you don't like Tenovu,
Speaker 1: they have to build this road or this rail lor
Speaker 1: Jonathan gave the largest contract in the history of China
Speaker 1: to the Chinese Railway Company to connect the railway line
Speaker 1: from Legos to Calibi.
Speaker 2: It's not even on the coast.
Speaker 1: It's that difficult that that contract was the largest contract
Speaker 1: ever given to a Chinese company in the history of China,
Speaker 1: largest foreign contract to build it from Legos to Calabar
Speaker 1: railway not on the coast.
Speaker 2: Then you think high tech would just wake up and
Speaker 2: can build a coastal road in the Do you know
Speaker 2: how many bridges is they have to build?
Speaker 3: Do you know how many bridges have to build just
Speaker 3: to go from Legos to say just be not even Delta,
Speaker 3: just across Gogo states.
Speaker 2: Have you driven to alec of before? Have you driven
Speaker 2: all the way down before?
Speaker 3: But let's hope that God there, God did got to
Speaker 3: build it for us. Russian you've got the floor rushing,
Speaker 3: go ahead, Russian, go ahead. But she hands up that
Speaker 3: she can't hear unless John Crowder sorry, I had issues,
Speaker 3: yeah and everyone.
Speaker 47: Yeah, So I don't want to quickly talk about the
Speaker 47: first I'll talk about like how important the.
Speaker 5: Subsidies were, the removal of subsidy and the flu of.
Speaker 47: The there was actually for the car, for the economy.
Speaker 47: I mean, someone else mentioned how we had like we
Speaker 47: had back page and then they were also said enough
Speaker 47: future training, future feature resources, for house for sorry for
Speaker 47: for and all these things, but.
Speaker 5: Also for the neerror and the value of the currency.
Speaker 47: It was also very important to float the are which
Speaker 47: is actually quite different from just just increasing the price
Speaker 47: of the dollar of reducing the value of.
Speaker 5: The it's different.
Speaker 48: All they did was they moved the regulations, like the
Speaker 48: government restrictions on the price which was being.
Speaker 5: Funded basically by the CBN using our reserves.
Speaker 9: And not only not only was it.
Speaker 47: Detrimentals or reserves, it was also it was also detrimter
Speaker 47: because it was an a venue for corruption.
Speaker 48: There was and it's not just abutraged normal abutrage corruption.
Speaker 12: There was deep set corruption in that particular system where
Speaker 12: people who have to make.
Speaker 47: Requests and the necess have to make requests through certain
Speaker 47: connections to get set in.
Speaker 5: A mumber of dollars and all those things and.
Speaker 48: All those convoluted processes that made it's not really had
Speaker 48: to do maybe it.
Speaker 5: Had to do business and was just a system in general.
Speaker 47: And there was also draining our resources, our financial resources,
Speaker 47: so it was.
Speaker 5: It was completely bad. It was not a good thing,
Speaker 5: and so like it had to be removed, We had
Speaker 5: to be fluted. So they didn't. They didn't introduce value
Speaker 5: of genera and it just flutedge. It does allowed the markets.
Speaker 47: Terminits and then once in a while, as we've seen.
Speaker 5: Then discipli and decipient it.
Speaker 47: Having things and trying to maintain it, tries to maintain
Speaker 47: that stability.
Speaker 5: And then I also wanted to talk quickly to about
Speaker 5: the Coastal Highway.
Speaker 47: Personally, I'm very very optimistic about about the Tinoo's vision
Speaker 47: and plan to complete the highway. And I mean, I've
Speaker 47: listened to David do I talk about it a lot
Speaker 47: of times, and I'm I believe in him somehow, you know,
Speaker 47: for some reason.
Speaker 5: And then we talked about how hard it is pomplish
Speaker 5: roads like that.
Speaker 47: The Americans bused in that state highway in twenty five
Speaker 47: years was about for six thousand kilometers and then they
Speaker 47: did it like nineteen whatever.
Speaker 5: I don't know when they did it, but like a
Speaker 5: long time ago.
Speaker 9: We are two twenty five.
Speaker 48: We have more resources, we have resources, but like there's
Speaker 48: technology pup and everything, and personally, I feel like you can't.
Speaker 32: Be done maybe not maybe not in four years or
Speaker 32: you know, six years.
Speaker 2: The le yeah, but but but that's the point, sir,
Speaker 2: I think I want the road more than you.
Speaker 1: I don't think that you can find any real Nigerian
Speaker 1: anyone that says he loves Nigeria that's against this road.
Speaker 1: You won't find any because if this road opens up,
Speaker 1: there is no road. Guys, from the east to the west.
Speaker 1: There is legos about an express which is an express way.
Speaker 1: Then from a background or l ray that you have
Speaker 1: two three lanes, you get to be in something's happening,
Speaker 1: You get to something is happening. There's no real like
Speaker 1: you said, the I five you have in America, it
Speaker 1: doesn't exist in Nigeria at that level. But the point
Speaker 1: is that the point I made it for the folks
Speaker 1: on Twitter is you can't build this road in four
Speaker 1: or eight years. Tinapool is not gonna complete this road.
Speaker 1: So I would have wished in the would have created
Speaker 1: an East West Road commission. Fund that commission with something
Speaker 1: maybe one percent or two percent of gas flame.
Speaker 2: Or something like that. Let that commission build the road.
Speaker 3: Tinerbook will not be this road can be built in
Speaker 3: ten You probably said in sixteen years when America is building,
Speaker 3: it can be building ten years.
Speaker 2: It's just too massive. A bridge, A load will take
Speaker 2: you one twelve months or so months to build.
Speaker 3: You're gonna build nearly seventy bridges to go just to
Speaker 3: cross maybe to Stage seventy.
Speaker 1: Because it's a coastal road. The folks that East West
Speaker 1: Road saw this and moved it more into the land.
Speaker 1: But when you go to the land, it's you. You
Speaker 1: are hitting towns. Coast Road is smooth, so you can
Speaker 1: build your six lanes and just go. That's really why
Speaker 1: you want to coast road. So nobody's against the Coast.
Speaker 2: Road, my brother, we want it, but we have to
Speaker 2: be a bit more.
Speaker 3: You know, it's not by prayer roads and not built
Speaker 3: by prayer or by good intent or by if someone
Speaker 3: speaks no, let's be level heard here.
Speaker 1: If nobody wants to build, get a commission. Let's commission
Speaker 1: fund that road and let them build that road. That's
Speaker 1: just my take because who do VORs everybody? Now it
Speaker 1: favors everybody because that road now generate parts. If you
Speaker 1: have a road, you can build a railway. You have
Speaker 1: a railway, you can build pots. So who doesn't want it?
Speaker 1: But we have to be able to temper. Okay, but
Speaker 1: should I hope you get my pointer?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 5: Yeah, your points and I quite agree with you. It's
Speaker 5: actually because I need to be realistic.
Speaker 9: Just like this take time.
Speaker 47: Like you said, you're building your building like a lot
Speaker 47: of bridges is a cool star road, and there's going
Speaker 47: to be a lot of a lot of state parks.
Speaker 5: Along the way, and it's going to take time. And
Speaker 5: I think I like your solution.
Speaker 9: And there are other.
Speaker 5: Solutions, like like.
Speaker 47: Getting private investments and then trying to cook the investments.
Speaker 1: I think that what I should do is to say
Speaker 1: that the federal government mapped the road out, map the
Speaker 1: road out from Legos to Calabar with spurs to on HR,
Speaker 1: or that map the road right, put the railway there.
Speaker 1: Then simply say okay, if you want to build this section,
Speaker 1: is what's to cost you. So, for instance, a local
Speaker 1: the Alta state has got tralios in Iran, they have
Speaker 1: cash to burn. The pasts can say contract dot com
Speaker 1: will fund one kilometer every.
Speaker 2: Month, The Alta can stay that biers.
Speaker 3: I can step contract dot com would fundilut us every month,
Speaker 3: and you start to building you like Lego, so Biosis
Speaker 3: can have their own one hundred kilmeters built. The actor
Speaker 3: can build diclimitters oh where they can build this one.
Speaker 3: But you have the road already mapped out. It's already
Speaker 3: mapped out, and then you're just build like Lego. But
Speaker 3: if you wait for mister Tingego to build that road
Speaker 3: from Legos to Calabar in eight years, my god, you're
Speaker 3: you're a dreamer.
Speaker 2: It's not gonna happen.
Speaker 1: And when we say these things, I'm saying so you
Speaker 1: can have the right structure in place, have a commission
Speaker 1: or have an SPV fund that SPV now with a
Speaker 1: tax structure that will guarantee the funding. You remember, once
Speaker 1: you leave office, you are gone. The things that Harry
Speaker 1: wanted to build, they've abandoned them. I'll be get the
Speaker 1: point I'm making. All right, let's get thanks to the
Speaker 1: Russia pictured yourself, please copy right here?
Speaker 2: Who speak? Yeah, please better?
Speaker 5: Thank you for giving me this so first I would
Speaker 5: love to the books from Stentiment.
Speaker 12: That's what making you know, when so people are saying
Speaker 12: that we are politicizing this, and that the truth advert
Speaker 12: the variables that affects the life of two mans and
Speaker 12: Enduria has been controlled by the federal governments. Is it
Speaker 12: interest rates, inflation rates, echangerates? It is this variables, this
Speaker 12: very it is controlled by it's so controlled by federal government.
Speaker 12: So it is the policies that ships this variables. And
Speaker 12: in fact, in the last two in the last three years,
Speaker 12: the source of infliction DURIA has been brewing by likely effects.
Speaker 5: EFTs evaluations like mother is of infliction NEDUA. He's been
Speaker 5: driving by f X passed through.
Speaker 12: Data is there, Data is available. Many of us may
Speaker 12: not agree with what I'm saying, so so SI like
Speaker 12: that just the parts of it.
Speaker 46: But it's this majorly majority FX that would that would.
Speaker 5: We really mentioned business? The president of past reform be see. Yes,
Speaker 5: the presidents of pasform.
Speaker 12: Three he said, he said, he said, FX passed through
Speaker 12: its major source of inflation.
Speaker 5: They are you know what I did? Yes, also mentioned business.
Speaker 5: So at first it's major I I do controls effects.
Speaker 12: It is federal governments controls FLEXU inflation.
Speaker 5: It is federal governments. Now this admission came into it today.
Speaker 5: Number of poverty, number.
Speaker 12: Of probable wait, those on four million by ten twentyform
Speaker 12: it's up.
Speaker 5: It's named millium. So what are we saying.
Speaker 12: It's about the It's not about criticizing the administration.
Speaker 5: It is the numbers. So we shouldn't be ringling emotions
Speaker 5: with numbers.
Speaker 12: Now and we are looking back all star roads as
Speaker 12: we are asking tell us how much pack look that
Speaker 12: do do you plan for these projects? They can't give
Speaker 12: us assers. They say they're not happy for the projects.
Speaker 5: You can't do this that way. We have to we
Speaker 5: have to be transparent. So did you don't matter that when.
Speaker 12: This debt the debt proof of the matter is that
Speaker 12: when it comes to debt, to me, that's what you're
Speaker 12: wrong with in borrowing.
Speaker 5: But we feel like saying that what's matass what are.
Speaker 9: We borrowing for? Are we borrowing to.
Speaker 5: Loose or we are borrowing for productivity?
Speaker 12: As a matter of fact, neture to this natuia, now
Speaker 12: our factor.
Speaker 5: Of productivity is negative, so mean that this economy is
Speaker 5: not productive.
Speaker 12: In short, during the session of the contradactors driving this economy,
Speaker 12: it's legals. If you take of the out of the dua,
Speaker 12: that's what it is in the duria. So if you
Speaker 12: go and change GDP our GDP.
Speaker 5: Is contributed the deer because contributed to five percent. The
Speaker 5: nurse states two legos is reverse with four percent. The
Speaker 5: rest were just one percent percent.
Speaker 12: Contribute to the missions degree mean that the growth were having.
Speaker 12: The DA is not inclusive and that's why economic group
Speaker 12: economic group by three points twenty four.
Speaker 5: Butter say that our com is declining. So now even
Speaker 5: what about the electricitysterrific? You know electricism is going to
Speaker 5: be there, likely to increase, that vary.
Speaker 12: Now, now if the two controls the facts that changes Crigoros,
Speaker 12: I could remember if when it was there?
Speaker 5: Where is the ministers of another?
Speaker 9: That enough?
Speaker 5: Maybe I can't really remember names in them? Something she
Speaker 5: said that the successfully.
Speaker 12: Removed electricity subsidy.
Speaker 5: Now this admissions gave me. They broke everything to bad,
Speaker 5: they said.
Speaker 12: So lub must pay higher because the course of the
Speaker 12: eis your answer safe who controls? Who controls the valuables
Speaker 12: that make the course of electricy to go? It is
Speaker 12: the furtherer goms. You've got to check the n N
Speaker 12: I see NYC website.
Speaker 5: What if really? What the fact that that.
Speaker 16: Affects electricity generation?
Speaker 7: Change rates is there?
Speaker 5: Inflation rates is there? Gas price is there? So who
Speaker 5: is in Chige for this?
Speaker 7: It's father going.
Speaker 12: Even though I must combine the admission that after the fat,
Speaker 12: after that removed subsidy, the revenue has increased.
Speaker 5: The revenue path in christ from eight percent about fourteen
Speaker 5: percent in twent times form.
Speaker 12: But let's advertise that revenue has increased, fact has increased
Speaker 12: to distate goverments. But this money, this all this allocation
Speaker 12: has increased, has been rooted by eye inflation. Because you
Speaker 12: agatize that the prices of change, growth, entery.
Speaker 5: It's not that the same thing. Many of them have
Speaker 5: God blog wote three food. So we made that the
Speaker 5: money increased. The money that the stigment is he's being
Speaker 5: readed by inflation.
Speaker 12: So to me, the money we should not usually expected
Speaker 12: too much from the governors because the money that is,
Speaker 12: it's be rooded by inflation.
Speaker 5: Except what dicilize the last really what I'm talking about.
Speaker 5: So people are saying that and the state governments to
Speaker 5: engage in this, and that's see declar matters.
Speaker 12: If any economy to create a shape prosperity for his people,
Speaker 12: you can't be driven by people, private citizens, not government
Speaker 12: government based on at the bast on the antistidy.
Speaker 5: They always with corruptions. Sodina I said, a stutions a
Speaker 5: fellow weak.
Speaker 12: So if we have you students allow weak, it's fete
Speaker 12: very difficult for these institutions to be driving productions. So
Speaker 12: governments who find a way to empower the people, let
Speaker 12: people drive these productions that I needed. Never look acadists
Speaker 12: of the economy, life for self. How many are many
Speaker 12: who have the capacity to even drive productions. It is
Speaker 12: my elits because it's this, They have the capacity to
Speaker 12: drive productions. SOCCO must find a way to say that
Speaker 12: it gives never play fit for everybody.
Speaker 7: So indeed, it was the American that.
Speaker 5: Is today a big back.
Speaker 12: Are built by the people, government dogs, familiar policies.
Speaker 28: Yeah, the people, I don't build the work that challenge it?
Speaker 5: Who does it?
Speaker 3: So?
Speaker 5: Thank you very much?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I hear.
Speaker 1: I know we've sort of objected away from the dead side, right,
Speaker 1: but let me speak a quick comment on the devaluation
Speaker 1: and also on the subsidition number. Guys, if you do
Speaker 1: not devalue, you are seeing that one nyira of or
Speaker 1: five hundred narra is one dollar.
Speaker 2: That's what you're saying, that five hundred narra is one dollar.
Speaker 2: So what do you think could happen? Simple?
Speaker 1: A government guy will apply for a lot of a
Speaker 1: million dollars, bring you to the black market, sell it
Speaker 1: for fifteen hundred and make a thousand narra per dollar,
Speaker 1: which is what was happening in the past, because the
Speaker 1: real exchange rate you see today the black market is
Speaker 1: the real exchange rate, not what CBN gives you. The
Speaker 1: black market is the real xchang, which is whatever the
Speaker 1: black market, the interplay of demand and supply.
Speaker 2: Is the real rate.
Speaker 3: So your narror is not weak or strong the market
Speaker 3: it is saying it is weak. You can't fight the market.
Speaker 3: If you don't want a weak Nira, export more. The
Speaker 3: more you export, then your narra will gain value. You
Speaker 3: can't say I want strong then you know that our
Speaker 3: production then you fix the production capability.
Speaker 9: You can't.
Speaker 3: It's like it's like saying in Nidia better suit and
Speaker 3: monikul them. You can't say you want strong Nira with
Speaker 3: no power supply to manufacture.
Speaker 16: Problems first, so if you don't fix problems, they hold on.
Speaker 2: Hold on. Let's look at this way.
Speaker 1: If you say, first, if you don't fixit evaluation, you
Speaker 1: are losing more money, true theft of the dollar, because
Speaker 1: this would continue if you don't stop the devaluation. What
Speaker 1: you are saying is that you are going to allow
Speaker 1: people to just go to the CB and say they
Speaker 1: want to import essential what it is. Get dollars at
Speaker 1: five hundred, turn around and sell it at a thousand
Speaker 1: and five. That's all you're doing. So you can't do both.
Speaker 1: You can tuggle them at work at the same time
Speaker 1: you can devalue and you can see. You want to
Speaker 1: fix the production community. The problem in Nigeria. You know,
Speaker 1: we've had lots of space and look, I said this.
Speaker 1: The problem is that it's too expensive to manufacture anything
Speaker 1: in Nigeria.
Speaker 2: It's cheaper to go to India, buy rice.
Speaker 1: Put on the ship, pay freight, pay insurance, bring that
Speaker 1: rise to the part in Legos than to grow rice
Speaker 1: in Keavy and transport to Legos.
Speaker 2: It's cheaper.
Speaker 3: And if you have an economy like that, you can't
Speaker 3: you can't progress. If it was cheap to make things
Speaker 3: in Nigeria, inflation will fall. But imports are cheaper, which
Speaker 3: is why people go for imports. Imputs are cheaper, and
Speaker 3: that's the problem with the economy. If you have an
Speaker 3: economy where imports that America can afford cheaper input because
Speaker 3: their dollar is quote and quote straw.
Speaker 2: But your NYRA is weak and you are important double warming.
Speaker 3: You go ahead from spoken right, that's just achiever, achiever,
Speaker 3: achia dot a go achievement, go for it.
Speaker 7: You the gerod okay anyway I can hear you.
Speaker 5: Okay, okay, good Now.
Speaker 49: I think what the economists was actually saying is about
Speaker 49: the fact that government of claturally I walk on the
Speaker 49: this thing is actually I believe work from the basiness, right,
Speaker 49: you need from our perspective, right. I think the things
Speaker 49: in which we are talking about is just from the top.
Speaker 49: I think we have to walk fastly on the first
Speaker 49: things that remodes.
Speaker 5: Trust me. I think I tart can't do one thing.
Speaker 5: I think that sweet Alia last week or something.
Speaker 49: But now, the funny thing there is mostly most normal
Speaker 49: Agenians because we get access to goodle agrigate.
Speaker 38: Interesting, right, and we know how you.
Speaker 49: Put some electricity actually contributes to productivity.
Speaker 5: Right now, even the outbreak Nigeria that is.
Speaker 49: Supposed to probably have a great idea, right you're trying
Speaker 49: to just before the scratches.
Speaker 21: Something like that.
Speaker 7: If you don't have answers to this normal daily.
Speaker 49: Utress electricity, there is no way he or she built
Speaker 49: the beauty to its highest potential.
Speaker 9: Right.
Speaker 14: And I believe if we're when you're talking about productivity
Speaker 14: or important exporting in the highest levels, right.
Speaker 49: I think it's the groundwork system that actually matters to
Speaker 49: be right. And this is be talking about from our
Speaker 49: own perspective, because these are the things we be You
Speaker 49: don't the young guys if I'm not even eld it right,
Speaker 49: the guy that are trying to build a giant conto
Speaker 49: spaces to name one or two of the world's really
Speaker 49: happening in Nigeria.
Speaker 5: How can we look in how can we actually have
Speaker 5: position our sets? What are the rest new thing?
Speaker 9: Right?
Speaker 5: What is really happening?
Speaker 9: Right?
Speaker 5: So that's just in form of perspective.
Speaker 49: Necessarily, I think the government needs to just walk on
Speaker 49: these things first.
Speaker 5: Right, let's get on the trees.
Speaker 12: Let's get basic things that happens before we were talking about,
Speaker 12: because if the businesses are sorting trusting spark.
Speaker 3: So they're just just I know, there's no right answer.
Speaker 3: So I'm not putting on the spot. But if you
Speaker 3: had a billion dollars, would you do power or would
Speaker 3: you do a.
Speaker 2: Road to Calabar.
Speaker 3: I'm going to do power power first. Okay, Again, that's
Speaker 3: just I just want to get shot of you on that.
Speaker 3: All right, perfect, you appreciate that. So hey, mister Diana, Hi,
Speaker 3: Welcome to Austin Senna.
Speaker 2: How doing the goora is a slave to.
Speaker 5: Twenty two verse seven? Is Nigeria entering a death trap?
Speaker 5: I call it a thing.
Speaker 3: Called not a death trap. I see more of us
Speaker 3: inferiatic complex because we depend on the Britain. The state
Speaker 3: is they tell us jump this way, you jump jump
Speaker 3: that way.
Speaker 12: So there's no homegrown economic outlook, there's no underpinning for
Speaker 12: the decisions they made during.
Speaker 5: The Diverse conference.
Speaker 3: While speaking on TV, I'm saying, oh, the traffic for
Speaker 3: the airport was too much, Minister of Transport Vision, let's start.
Speaker 5: Doing the second railway, second wrong.
Speaker 2: Way for the airport.
Speaker 5: What did that tell me?
Speaker 12: That told me that there was no processes to the
Speaker 12: decisions that they make. And every decision you make has
Speaker 12: a political, environmental, human and financial implications. So the decisions
Speaker 12: are approps, not data based. So on the legos, I
Speaker 12: just want on the opinion? What data given that?
Speaker 5: Just the question those who do not.
Speaker 3: Know the purposed of pain, they can never put wealth
Speaker 3: to best use and never aim for the.
Speaker 5: Land lights until you can light up the world.
Speaker 3: What do I say? But as they said, you cannot
Speaker 3: solve a problem with the same Thingking that created it.
Speaker 3: Their innovative funding strategies to developing an economy, to building
Speaker 3: iconic projects.
Speaker 5: They done globally and locally.
Speaker 12: Egypt built the Swiss Canal Extension, sent the three kilimters.
Speaker 5: It was worth eight point five billion dollars.
Speaker 3: Egypt looked inwards, so I said, borrowing is actually inferiorly complex.
Speaker 5: Borrowing is still not understanding the gun Victor development.
Speaker 3: Because if China grew an our economy by a GDP
Speaker 3: from ninety seventeen to twenty thirteen, by over one hundred percent,
Speaker 3: by what you call total factor productivity, and you got
Speaker 3: to China to borrow money, not to learn one. Total
Speaker 3: factor productivity underpins my brothers and sisters.
Speaker 9: We canna help you.
Speaker 3: Second to the projects. It's not just pushing on projects.
Speaker 3: The cost of delays to projects are actually higher than
Speaker 3: the cost of the projects themselves.
Speaker 5: Because when the standard.
Speaker 3: That is road and two terribly away from Julius, Burger
Speaker 3: and Patty.
Speaker 5: To set trackle I smiled, because if you.
Speaker 3: Look at inflation and the major cost of project is mobilization, So.
Speaker 5: Why are you mobilized?
Speaker 3: Motor science, you do mobilize them if mobilize those size
Speaker 3: you mobilize them. Even the cost of congestions, the couse
Speaker 3: of traffic and construction in Ue.
Speaker 5: Traffic for those projects is higher than the projects.
Speaker 3: So there's a lack of holistic project outlooks in Africa.
Speaker 3: We look at costs only on a monetary basis. We
Speaker 3: don't look at it on the other protesting centers like congestion,
Speaker 3: like mobilization, like cost of delays.
Speaker 5: Now let's go to death.
Speaker 3: Twenty twenty four, your death servicing was thirteen trillion. It
Speaker 3: rose by sixteen percent from the previous year. I'll just
Speaker 3: say notes of that. And the debt issue is not
Speaker 3: just local. I'll say the debt is global because when
Speaker 3: Grace we wanted to join EU to adopt the Europe
Speaker 3: in nineteen ninety nine, when it was ushered A, you
Speaker 3: refuse to allow Greece because their death continue ratio, which
Speaker 3: was the threshow and the conditionality to adopt the euro
Speaker 3: their debt to dipperation was above sixty percent.
Speaker 5: So death it gives the wrong signal. Cost of borrowing
Speaker 5: goes up.
Speaker 12: Where you keep borrowing, the conditionalities contionalities are attached to
Speaker 12: your borrowing sequences, which are affect the answer of trade.
Speaker 12: Your costom borrowing proves to me, and your your pension
Speaker 12: for borrowing proves to me that you're lacking innovation because
Speaker 12: they're you know, the fitty strategies like sensitization and many
Speaker 12: as we cannot count on your competitiveness drops and the
Speaker 12: weakness to the effectiveness of your policies.
Speaker 5: But I would say this of the current president, a
Speaker 5: broken clock is right twice a day. One is obsessed
Speaker 5: with lakers.
Speaker 3: I give that to him because if the order state
Speaker 3: governors that's obsessed with.
Speaker 5: The way it is obsessed with lacus Naitria will not
Speaker 5: be wareh is two. He's a good student of history.
Speaker 2: What do I mean?
Speaker 3: He lands from the best PDP and live that part
Speaker 3: of posterity.
Speaker 5: What is the way forward?
Speaker 3: Children win elections, great minds, transform countries, link and you
Speaker 3: transforms in the performance third world economy four hundred dollars
Speaker 3: Jilly capital in nineteen sixty today to a first world economy.
Speaker 3: Chepe the capital of ninety three thousand dollars. Norway has
Speaker 3: proven to us before our face and oil and gas
Speaker 3: country and economy like us. In nineteen sixty seven, they
Speaker 3: set up the government pension from global or in my colleague.
Speaker 5: Norwegian server world fun. Why they had a collective outlook.
Speaker 12: They underpinned it on an innovative client strategy.
Speaker 5: For the common good of their people. They didn't just
Speaker 5: follow the back wagon.
Speaker 3: Because you go to Norway, brothers and sisters, there are
Speaker 3: no skyscrapers in Norway.
Speaker 12: There are no pocus pocus projects. No, it's a simple country.
Speaker 12: No high rises, no big museums, no major theaters, no
Speaker 12: international conference centers.
Speaker 5: Because they know all that has no impact on the economy.
Speaker 5: They focused on doing best what.
Speaker 12: Was needed to be done. They put their best food forward.
Speaker 12: What did they do, said phones?
Speaker 3: They filtered their crude oil headings. They defied the crude
Speaker 3: oil costs because the resource cost Because while the other
Speaker 3: resource cause countries.
Speaker 5: Are deepending the Nigeria to the world for the for trillion,
Speaker 5: they're back to borrow to at one billion. Either goes
Speaker 5: to a sorry, but.
Speaker 3: No way as to the build their Cubermo phones to
Speaker 3: one point seven trillion United States dollars. In conclusion, I
Speaker 3: see intellectual inferiority complex, I see lack of innovativeness and
Speaker 3: like a that I in said, you hire a part
Speaker 3: of the problem out of the solution, and you cannot create.
Speaker 3: You cannot solve a problem with the same thinking that
Speaker 3: created it. Going forward, Nigeria is a business row your
Speaker 3: Ninjia company readio history. So what does Nigeria need to
Speaker 3: do to remove this boro spree to a developmental spree?
Speaker 5: Nanda needs a business.
Speaker 12: Have been fictional leader who understands Joe politics, economic on
Speaker 12: the current and fills the past of the people.
Speaker 5: God bless the nan genera with a righteous leader in.
Speaker 2: Jesus pray amen.
Speaker 1: But I don't run away to the first place. I mean,
Speaker 1: I like the fact that you talked about that cinema
Speaker 1: wants to develop legos. That's the point that you have
Speaker 1: to make with the fact that the road has been built.
Speaker 1: In the end, the road has been built. What he
Speaker 1: could loves and building an adulta? What do the patting
Speaker 1: job building on goal states? Even Harry, what the debuilt
Speaker 1: and cartina?
Speaker 2: I mean, I get I get it. I'm just going there.
Speaker 1: I'm going there because if everyone has built his own
Speaker 1: community build a terror by now, what have had you know,
Speaker 1: more things done in Nigeria.
Speaker 2: I get that part about him. I'm not mad at him.
Speaker 2: I'm all concerned with getting that road built.
Speaker 1: But let's come back to the decission not borrow for now,
Speaker 1: even China at when they have the heroic as they
Speaker 1: borrowed right right now? Are you saying that we can
Speaker 1: achieve what wants a center of infrastructure without borrowing?
Speaker 2: Can you give us a part way if you want
Speaker 2: to build nest of this road?
Speaker 9: Now?
Speaker 2: How can they would have borrowing if you could?
Speaker 9: Please?
Speaker 3: The big question discussed? Like I said, really want economic
Speaker 3: forum ourselves.
Speaker 5: During Jatte twenty.
Speaker 3: Fourteen fifteen, I noticed something that Jonathan was taking. Decisions
Speaker 3: are literally which means people invest us look at your leaders.
Speaker 5: So just like when I listen to anybody speaking, I'm
Speaker 5: thinking what is the foundation and they are the planning
Speaker 5: of how we are taking this decision? Was it a
Speaker 5: business case? That's why the journey say.
Speaker 12: Business are a leader that understands your politics, economic on
Speaker 12: the current and kills the possible people. So by Jonathan
Speaker 12: just saying because there's a need, let us put a
Speaker 12: second wrong way.
Speaker 5: When I know that the heatrow wrong way in the
Speaker 5: UK is.
Speaker 3: Running at ninety nine or nine percent capacity, how many
Speaker 3: placed land in the North Africa?
Speaker 5: As you will say you need a second wrong way,
Speaker 5: So I really see it thinking.
Speaker 3: Thinking is not optimization. The thinking is a post focused
Speaker 3: less spend the money too. The beauty of infrastructure is
Speaker 3: not to borrow money. Were using infrastructure to borrow money.
Speaker 3: Infrastructure first, like roads, is the largest and.
Speaker 5: Most visible asset of government.
Speaker 3: This is how people know that the government sexual forty
Speaker 3: subsection to be like dress Constitution says this securated the
Speaker 3: worth of the people. So the propart concerns of governments,
Speaker 3: So how do you give people up six of governments?
Speaker 3: Infrastructure is what they can see first. And if you're
Speaker 3: under pinion for infrastructure just as a minutes of borrow money,
Speaker 3: that's not the intern for infrastructure, which are using infrastructure
Speaker 3: to adopt technology. So I'm saying the other peniag for
Speaker 3: such some projects. I will not talk about that project
Speaker 3: because don't know your opinion Like you know are you
Speaker 3: said in this space airport or cost pocus, no fundamentals,
Speaker 3: no economic on the current, no cause for the people.
Speaker 3: You just go borrow money, build the project would have
Speaker 3: puting it in place. Now that goes specialists. How do
Speaker 3: you fold this project? Let me ask you a question.
Speaker 5: Calum Egypt built France tried to build the Swiss Canal.
Speaker 5: They tried for years. It collapsed after wasting money.
Speaker 3: It was in eighteen ninety seven they now finally moneage
Speaker 3: after people have died. It was a field project.
Speaker 5: The commission is now one general assist.
Speaker 3: The current president was about to do the extension. The
Speaker 3: original LT was one ninety six kilometers. No I wanted
Speaker 3: to had about half of that size, seventy three percent.
Speaker 5: One of the seventy three kilometers. One of the major
Speaker 5: issues they had them was funding it.
Speaker 12: The funding came from external But now what did eg
Speaker 12: do Egypt was innovative seventy three kilometers extension Swiss canner.
Speaker 5: A global projects that concert across the ocean and reduce
Speaker 5: this navigational business is an economic game changer. Now they
Speaker 5: wanted to expend it. What did they do? One they
Speaker 5: taught in wards. Two they were innovative, which was they
Speaker 5: were not inferior.
Speaker 3: The money is in Nigeria pro Mmm therese dicam people,
Speaker 3: these sabers, they just this, there's this coming people. That's
Speaker 3: why Nagreney said business ary leader because exactly people see
Speaker 3: that you understand the numbers and that you have a
Speaker 3: business case, they would not invest in this. How did
Speaker 3: Egypt create the eight point five billion dollars on over subscribe?
Speaker 5: They tend people to stop bringing money. The world was surprised,
Speaker 5: the whole world when.
Speaker 12: When the project was permissioned, he put out their worships.
Speaker 5: The whole country was watching. The whole world. Theatter was giving.
Speaker 5: That was in nother project. How they taught in words,
Speaker 5: they founded this form within They.
Speaker 3: Sold dollar certificates to their citizens, then put.
Speaker 5: Into it as an investment. Nowhere is not high by this.
Speaker 5: I just got to I go to Toronto. I just
Speaker 5: go to New York. I see as skyscrapers and sower.
Speaker 5: What's my business now? I said no, I will not
Speaker 5: do follow. I will not do mob thinking. I will
Speaker 5: think out of the park. I will not just say
Speaker 5: it because I have money for crude.
Speaker 3: Let me build the terms I Conference center, Let me
Speaker 3: build the National Theater, let me build this, let me
Speaker 3: build The money is going to non service sector of
Speaker 3: the economy, because the sectors of the economy. If you build,
Speaker 3: for example, every kill everyone willing spends on.
Speaker 5: Highways, you do about seteen thousand jobs.
Speaker 2: So let's do the sectors.
Speaker 3: How much would you found into these sectors that will
Speaker 3: spread the economy most so nowhere did not journey bad.
Speaker 3: Now I say I will save my money. I will
Speaker 3: bring this money. Let's say that money for legals. Let
Speaker 3: me give an example a legos I can. If I
Speaker 3: have that money in my hands as president, I have
Speaker 3: ten trillion, I will look and I completely project.
Speaker 5: In ten years, you say them, I will look overseas.
Speaker 3: Can I found a toll roads in Canada and I
Speaker 3: will dogle that money in three years bring back the
Speaker 3: investments to fund money in Nigeria.
Speaker 5: That's what the Norwege of servitor fund.
Speaker 3: That's done to the wars with the Atulia, that's what
Speaker 3: they cannot the pressure phone that's done to the June
Speaker 3: they awards.
Speaker 5: So the while looking out what to borrow in, want
Speaker 5: to to press to pressure ourselves. When am I supposed
Speaker 5: to look in, want to be no fitting out, want
Speaker 5: to make profits. I must not fund project in Nigeria.
Speaker 3: If they project me more profitable Ladia, if the productill
Speaker 3: be more profitable Insidia, if the probably will be more
Speaker 3: profited in Suitland, I would.
Speaker 5: Take my dress money and invest the national a n
Speaker 5: s I.
Speaker 3: A the investment excellent investment I'm I will inventing money there,
Speaker 3: get a high return, it's gonna rise.
Speaker 5: It's it's hedge against the currency fulling. Even if the
Speaker 5: cursive for three.
Speaker 12: Thousand, I would do that instead of to go bull
Speaker 12: dollar beauty roads. I do not complete it in thirty years,
Speaker 12: Like the second Nada bridge, the dollar price goes up,
Speaker 12: the gaps to fund, the death servicing increases, everybody's facing
Speaker 12: ourselves cost focus.
Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 1: I think everyone would have gained, you know, to So essentially,
Speaker 1: instead of taking a billion dollars to invest in Nigeria,
Speaker 1: take a billion dollars invest yield a return. Even if
Speaker 1: we get four percent return, that's going to be forty
Speaker 1: million dollars in ten years.
Speaker 3: You still have your principal back. Use the four million
Speaker 3: dollars and start the road. You have your one billion,
Speaker 3: you have the road funding two to be to one
Speaker 3: more or less. Well, it's an idea and I think
Speaker 3: I see some sense in it, and I think it's
Speaker 3: also something we can also do. The point is local
Speaker 3: direct investment is also not been positioned as a potential
Speaker 3: revenue source local investment looking at a foreign tex investment.
Speaker 2: This road that we're talking about, can be built and
Speaker 2: funded locally. I also agree with you that it can
Speaker 2: be built out for it locally.
Speaker 3: Like we said, design the road, divide that road into
Speaker 3: park kilometer mile. You will have folks that have brought
Speaker 3: to say I and my school folks who are going
Speaker 3: to do this working. You still pay to the consocial
Speaker 3: company or break that rode down. Let's state look ugment.
Speaker 3: I want to fund fund if by USO has the
Speaker 3: money that I'm fund there. If rivers have the money,
Speaker 3: let them fund there's let's move on, Ahmed, Thanks.
Speaker 2: For how many how you do? How many types for
Speaker 2: joining us? I'm not talking about the dead trap?
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, talking about NIDIA is borrowing one about forty
Speaker 1: five trillion.
Speaker 3: We have no list of projects were already indebted. Debt
Speaker 3: to revenue is very very low. What's your take on
Speaker 3: this all?
Speaker 5: I thank you very much for having me.
Speaker 42: I think the real questions should not even be if
Speaker 42: we're entering the gatch trap. I believe we're already in
Speaker 42: the death trap. The real question is how do we
Speaker 42: get out of it? I think since you know, doing
Speaker 42: a passengers regame, when we were able to set to
Speaker 42: all our debts actually just too cause about it or
Speaker 42: two before we started BOLO and maybe it's just a
Speaker 42: spiral out of.
Speaker 39: Control, and then we are where we are right now now.
Speaker 39: If you look at it, yes, you look at our
Speaker 39: revenue to DAT service. I think Continue was able to
Speaker 39: bring it down to about sixty five percent out of
Speaker 39: last quarter of twenty twenty four, and then our debt
Speaker 39: to GDP issue still fifty six percent.
Speaker 38: Debt Management office are still arguing that we have the
Speaker 38: best Now.
Speaker 5: My argument is this, and as you have.
Speaker 38: Rightly pointed out, and so many people have rightly pointed out,
Speaker 38: is what are we borrowing for?
Speaker 9: Right?
Speaker 39: We just I think a settle the COVID nineteen debt
Speaker 39: that was given to us by World Bank.
Speaker 42: But if you look at it, you can't have you
Speaker 42: can't see any visible impact. What was this money useful
Speaker 42: in the first place that we will paid back?
Speaker 5: You can't see.
Speaker 42: Anything visible on the ground to say, okay, this is
Speaker 42: what the money was used for in the first place.
Speaker 38: And my thinking is that unless you are America or
Speaker 38: you cannot.
Speaker 5: Borrow yourself to prosperity.
Speaker 42: As the last speaker, right, he said, we really really
Speaker 42: really have to think in words.
Speaker 38: Right, and the funniest thing is with Niger's economist. The
Speaker 38: more you see, the less you understand. We have fluted
Speaker 38: an era, we.
Speaker 5: Have removed subsidy, revenue has increased, but yet people are
Speaker 5: telling us that, look, you still have to borrow more.
Speaker 5: And I thought the real.
Speaker 42: Reason, one of the main reasons, was so that there
Speaker 42: will be enough money to go around and then we
Speaker 42: don't need this.
Speaker 38: Get this borrowing that we're doing up and down, and.
Speaker 9: At the end of the day.
Speaker 42: We go and borrow two billion dollars, we borrow ten
Speaker 42: billion dollars and at the end of the day we
Speaker 42: don't given what we're using it for. And you have
Speaker 42: to pay this tax and you know, this breadth of
Speaker 42: woods institution of not helping us anything. When they see job,
Speaker 42: the only thing we ask is how high do you
Speaker 42: need to join? And for my my own view is
Speaker 42: whatever they do to you, whatever advise they eve, it's
Speaker 42: to their own advantage.
Speaker 5: They think of themselves first, because.
Speaker 42: You collect, you collect dollars from them something that they
Speaker 42: just print, and you know when you're going to pay back.
Speaker 42: You have to sell something to them, not necessarily directly
Speaker 42: to them, but it's your resources that you are selling.
Speaker 42: Because they want accept you a mar So I think
Speaker 42: it's it's something that we really really need to leave inside.
Speaker 38: I believe it already in a debt trap because how
Speaker 38: do you get up of this?
Speaker 42: We're talking about one hundred and fortified three right, so
Speaker 42: how we need what we need to do now, you
Speaker 42: need a lot of work.
Speaker 38: For you to pay that money back. One way or
Speaker 38: the other, you have to pay it.
Speaker 7: So already you have already mortgaged.
Speaker 38: Your own future.
Speaker 42: Whatever you're going to get maybe in the next ten
Speaker 42: fifteen years, it doesn't even belong to you.
Speaker 38: You just have to be managing so instormation.
Speaker 42: What I would like to say is, as you properly
Speaker 42: pointed out, we need to you know, the government, whoever
Speaker 42: is in the government, it doesn't matter which party, we
Speaker 42: have to hold them into account or hold them to account, Like, okay,
Speaker 42: what are you doing with all this money.
Speaker 2: You are connected?
Speaker 42: If I don't be brewing and just morgaging the futures
Speaker 42: of futal Nigerians.
Speaker 38: Because you just feel you can't do it.
Speaker 42: All the World Bank says you should do it or
Speaker 42: I am see you should do it, But for me,
Speaker 42: we are already in the debtra it's just how