Speaker 1: It's Maria's much and Stuff.
Speaker 2: What a great idea on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 1: Welcome to Maria's Mutts and Stuff. And with me today
Speaker 1: is Marianne Leoni. She is an actress, a screenwriter and
Speaker 1: author and her Five Dog Epiphany book is here and
Speaker 1: I want to talk to her about it. So first
Speaker 1: of all, I'm thrilled and honored to be talking to you.
Speaker 2: Oh same here, Maria. I have read your history and
Speaker 2: I love all of the work you do with rescuing animals.
Speaker 3: Well, thanks so much. And your book.
Speaker 1: Can I tell you I read it in a day.
Speaker 1: This I really did. I couldn't put it down. And
Speaker 1: I know some people have said that on the reviews
Speaker 1: in the back, but it was really true. It was
Speaker 1: just first of all, it is just such a loving
Speaker 1: tribute to your beautiful son Jesse, just so much.
Speaker 3: It's just so perfect.
Speaker 1: And then of course you threw and everything about the
Speaker 1: rescues and the rescue, but your book is so real,
Speaker 1: and I think and that's what made it so. I mean,
Speaker 1: I was laughing, I was crying.
Speaker 3: It was just like a mix of emotions.
Speaker 2: And I'm very happy to hear you say that, because
Speaker 2: you know, I think people are afraid to read books
Speaker 2: that have grief involved, and I want them to know
Speaker 2: that you will still have joy, you will still laugh,
Speaker 2: you will you know, I will always live with this loss.
Speaker 2: But what I wanted to talk about was how rescuing
Speaker 2: these animals, you know, how brought back a measure of
Speaker 2: joy that I thought was gone forever. And it is not, of.
Speaker 3: Course no, but the whole process, and you explain that.
Speaker 1: I mean, because everything went from so dark and gray,
Speaker 1: and then with the dogs, it's like a little bit
Speaker 1: of light came in and then more and but never
Speaker 1: losing the gray, because that's what that's what loss is
Speaker 1: to all of us and to and that we go
Speaker 1: through as humans.
Speaker 3: And but the it was just it just really was
Speaker 3: very perfect.
Speaker 2: Oh thank you. And you know, the first dog was
Speaker 2: not a rescue. I think I explained in the book.
Speaker 2: Our son was born ten weeks early and had a
Speaker 2: brain bleed on the third day and as a result
Speaker 2: developed cerebral palsy. He was spastic, quadriplegic, nonverbal, and brilliant, right,
Speaker 2: so every once in a while, I mean he couldn't speak,
Speaker 2: but it was muscular, not cognitive, So every once in
Speaker 2: a while he could get a word out. And boy,
Speaker 2: when he was six years old and he sat on
Speaker 2: Santa's lap, it was his fondest dream and he took
Speaker 2: everything he had to say, dog.
Speaker 3: I love that.
Speaker 2: I turned to my husband and said, he's getting a dog,
Speaker 2: and it was you know, it was pre internet, really
Speaker 2: and we didn't know any better. We went to the
Speaker 2: pet store. We we got Goodie and Goody was Jesse's
Speaker 2: first sibling forever more. But we didn't realize that we
Speaker 2: were getting a dog from a you know, one of
Speaker 2: the poor breeder dogs that's kept in a cage. And
Speaker 2: it was only afterwards that I found that out, and
Speaker 2: so from then on it was rescue.
Speaker 3: But you know what, I did the same thing.
Speaker 1: My first dog was also bought in a pet store
Speaker 1: because we didn't know. I mean, you're right without the Internet,
Speaker 1: and you point that out in your book, and it
Speaker 1: made me think, that's right, She's right, Like I never
Speaker 1: thought about that.
Speaker 3: But because before the.
Speaker 1: Internet, we didn't know these things, you know, unless you
Speaker 1: watched a dog show or something. But even still, Suzi
Speaker 1: Milan didn't happen until years later, so we didn't know. So,
Speaker 1: you know, the thing was, oh, you want a dog.
Speaker 1: You'd go to a pet store not even knowing what
Speaker 1: puppy mills. But you know what, there are people today
Speaker 1: who don't even know what puppy mills are, which is terrible.
Speaker 2: You know. I researched in a dead tree book, you know,
Speaker 2: actual book paper, what would be good for a child
Speaker 2: using a wheelchair, and and you know, and I thought, okay,
Speaker 2: East were one lap dogs and they don't shed, and
Speaker 2: they look like muppets, and he loves the muppets. And
Speaker 2: that's how we kind of got hooked on be Shan's.
Speaker 2: You know, I think you kind of get hooked on
Speaker 2: a breed, although I love all the breeds and uh
Speaker 2: and so that was and then you did read that
Speaker 2: I was initially terrified of dogs because one almost took
Speaker 2: my eye out when I was But that was my
Speaker 2: own fault. I didn't understand that, you know. I I
Speaker 2: crawled into this uh hutch where a German shepherd had
Speaker 2: just whelped, and I picked up her. I thought I
Speaker 2: had discovered treasure, and then she almost took my eye.
Speaker 1: Out because.
Speaker 2: I would take someone's eye out of somebody.
Speaker 3: Didn't know, you didn't know, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: So but then the rescues were. They were a whole other,
Speaker 2: you know, journey to find out, you know. And I
Speaker 2: also learned about how varying the temperaments are of dogs,
Speaker 2: that it doesn't matter they've all gone through something, they
Speaker 2: will react differently too. Some have more resilience than others.
Speaker 2: And it was it was really interesting. The ones we
Speaker 2: have now, the last ones, the first girl dogs I've
Speaker 2: ever had, they are amazing. I cannot get over the
Speaker 2: resilience of little Tete, who spent her entire six years
Speaker 2: in a cage as a breeder and was so neglected
Speaker 2: that the harness grew into her flat horrible, and she
Speaker 2: was a fear biter and nobody was adopting her. And
Speaker 2: she did draw blood from my husband the first day,
Speaker 2: but then she fell madly in love with him. And
Speaker 2: even now, oh my god, he goes away and comes back,
Speaker 2: she just the pitch of her bark is just and
Speaker 2: to watch her comeback she still brings me to tears
Speaker 2: because she is still making discoveries. We've had her for
Speaker 2: three years and the other day, just a few weeks ago,
Speaker 2: we took her to the Bay farm which is near us,
Speaker 2: and this this beautiful nature walk by the ocean, and
Speaker 2: she's been off leash because she knows where the chicken is,
Speaker 2: you know. So and she suddenly took off into the
Speaker 2: woods and then came running back with a big smile
Speaker 2: on her face, like I chased a rabbit. I chased
Speaker 2: a rabbit and I came back.
Speaker 1: Right, which is amazing when you think about where she
Speaker 1: came from.
Speaker 2: That's right, you know. It's just moved me so much.
Speaker 2: I thought, Wow. And the other one, Sugar was never abused.
Speaker 2: She just was. I think she was living in a
Speaker 2: place where no one paid attention to her. Yeah, And
Speaker 2: so she was playing with a ball and then I
Speaker 2: saw the next day TETI. It's as if she's teaching her.
Speaker 2: You know, it's beautiful. It's beautiful.
Speaker 1: It is When you first started writing this book, what
Speaker 1: was your intent, did you?
Speaker 3: Because I know this is is this correct? It's your
Speaker 3: third book. It's my third book, one about your mom,
Speaker 3: one about Jesse.
Speaker 2: Yes, you know my mother. I'm first to generation. My
Speaker 2: mother came here to escape fascism in an arranged marriage,
Speaker 2: believe it or not, Womaz Yeah, but yeah, I had
Speaker 2: written about Jesse. I wanted to write about the healing
Speaker 2: power of you know, because I was reading this thing
Speaker 2: about how the psychiatrists had done this thing, like, if
Speaker 2: you're still grieving heavily six months after somebody has died,
Speaker 2: then you have complicated greeds. I thought, no, you know,
Speaker 2: and I thought, I really want to write to I
Speaker 2: want to write about the healing power of giving back
Speaker 2: to a creature that is has been damaged and how
Speaker 2: that can help you heal. And I don't buy what
Speaker 2: this says. This is wrong. I agree with you.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, there's no there's no what is the word like
Speaker 1: not a diagram, but there's no like book that right,
Speaker 1: because we're humans, so.
Speaker 3: Everybody's different and every situation is different, that's right.
Speaker 2: And I just I just and raised me when I
Speaker 2: saw that. Yeah, so this is in response to that,
Speaker 2: more or lesson just talking about like what it did
Speaker 2: personally for me. I don't say everybody has to be me,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. It's it's not a how to.
Speaker 2: This is what it did for us, right.
Speaker 1: But I think because it's so real, your book is
Speaker 1: so real, and I think anyone will be able to
Speaker 1: identify with it in some way.
Speaker 2: Oh, I really believe that. I mean, honestly, I hope
Speaker 2: that's true.
Speaker 3: Well, because trust me, I never can. I never read
Speaker 3: books in a day, you know.
Speaker 2: W thank you so much. I promise you.
Speaker 3: I'm not making it up. I really did read it
Speaker 3: in a day.
Speaker 1: I started it when I got home from work, and
Speaker 1: then I started reading it after dinner, and then I
Speaker 1: was had the baseball game in the background and I
Speaker 1: was reading it, and then I went to bed. I
Speaker 1: stayed up to like twelve. I wanted to finish it,
Speaker 1: and then I thought, oh, it's like twelve thirty, which
Speaker 1: is you know, much later that I go to bed.
Speaker 1: But BUPA plus, it was really that good.
Speaker 3: And I'm not just telling you that, I really truly
Speaker 3: mean it because.
Speaker 2: It was just so touching. It was just so touching, and.
Speaker 3: You touched on so many different things.
Speaker 1: And of course you know to talk to me about
Speaker 1: the whole dog thing, which is how I was.
Speaker 3: Introduced to you, like, oh, you want to read this book.
Speaker 1: It's about rescues in her life. But I have to
Speaker 1: tell you. You say something at the beginning of the book.
Speaker 1: And I've been saying this for years, and when I
Speaker 1: say it to certain people sometimes they get it.
Speaker 3: And I just think it's because it's human nature.
Speaker 1: And people are awkward with death and when right and
Speaker 1: to me, you should always say and maybe just because
Speaker 1: you know, we're Italian, so we're used.
Speaker 3: To going to.
Speaker 2: Yes.
Speaker 1: So I think, you know, because I remember being in
Speaker 1: college and having friends who had never gone to a wake,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, are you kidding? We went as children,
Speaker 1: you know, Yes, So I think it's death is different
Speaker 1: to us. And and I also think so that we
Speaker 1: are not. You're never comfortable with it, but you know,
Speaker 1: if somebody us is someone you say, I'm sorry, and
Speaker 1: that's all you need to say.
Speaker 2: That's right, that's right. I remember my dad died when
Speaker 2: I was fifteen, and it was one of those really
Speaker 2: terrible ways with people pulling him out of the coffin
Speaker 2: and you know, really full out. And I remember the
Speaker 2: most comfort I got was from my my dear friend,
Speaker 2: who was, you know, my little playmate from four years old,
Speaker 2: who did nothing, just came into the room and sat
Speaker 2: yes to me, touching me hip to hip, and that
Speaker 2: was it. You know. It was because my mother's people
Speaker 2: came from they understood. They have this song called Mai
Speaker 2: you have left Me dark, and they that culture is
Speaker 2: comfortable with death. Our culture is not cure is not
Speaker 2: exactly I mean, get over it is the is the answer,
Speaker 2: and you don't and you don't, and then you feel
Speaker 2: or take drugs, which is so terrible. I mean not
Speaker 2: I don't judge people, who are you to. I just
Speaker 2: feel like I wish it weren't so, you know, forcing
Speaker 2: yourself to push everything underneath and we're just.
Speaker 3: Going to say, yes, you sweep it under the carpet.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I really hate that. So I did too.
Speaker 1: And the thing that you said is when people instead
Speaker 1: of saying I'm sorry, they say I can't imagine.
Speaker 2: Oh my god.
Speaker 1: And I regardless of who it is or what or
Speaker 1: you know, whether it's a child or a parent or
Speaker 1: an animal, and people say I can't imagine.
Speaker 3: I've gotten so angry with people, right, And then when
Speaker 3: I saw that part of your book at the beginning,
Speaker 3: I'm like, oh my god, I love her for addressing this.
Speaker 1: Don't ever say I can't imagine, because you're going to
Speaker 1: have to so just stop it.
Speaker 2: Oh my god. The go to. It's the go to
Speaker 2: for people. I get it, because it's really you don't know,
Speaker 2: you never know what to say, and God forbid. I mean,
Speaker 2: our son was disabled, so I mean there are actually
Speaker 2: people who said it was for the best.
Speaker 3: I mean horrible, and I'm just horrible, horrible. I know.
Speaker 1: I was like, like, as I was reading it, said
Speaker 1: the neighbor who said that.
Speaker 3: Like what what?
Speaker 2: Yeah, but you know she was from another generation. She
Speaker 2: was in her nineties, and maybe it was I don't know.
Speaker 2: It was like it was something that you said if
Speaker 2: you were wasp f.
Speaker 3: You're stupid, you know, or callous or you don't have
Speaker 3: a heart. It's terrible.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I don't get it. But I don't get it,
Speaker 2: but I do. I do love our life with dogs,
Speaker 2: and we were you know, we lost Lucky and Frenchy,
Speaker 2: the first rescue dogs during COVID, and I remember saying
Speaker 2: to my husband, it's bleak. A dogless household after having
Speaker 2: dogs is bleak.
Speaker 3: It is bleak.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And he said, I'm still morning Frenchy. I said, yeah,
Speaker 2: but I'm looking at that finder right now.
Speaker 3: That's what you said.
Speaker 1: And then because you kind of you convinced him to
Speaker 1: get the recent ones.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, and he adores them, of course.
Speaker 3: And they adore him of course.
Speaker 2: Yes. Overally, I might add I'm a little bit jealous,
Speaker 2: I know.
Speaker 3: But the other one who's feeding them and doing everything.
Speaker 3: But first they love him. But yeah, those are dogs.
Speaker 2: They have been. It's been interesting. Have you noticed a
Speaker 2: difference between having girl dogs or boy you know, male
Speaker 2: dogs or female dogs. Yes, what is your feeling of
Speaker 2: the difference.
Speaker 3: It's interesting.
Speaker 1: My very first dog, my pug, was a female, and
Speaker 1: then the two dogs since then were males. And then
Speaker 1: when a neighbor of mine passed away, I took her
Speaker 1: dog in and she was an eight pound poodle who
Speaker 1: traumatized my seventy pound lab mix. It was, oh my god,
Speaker 1: it was insane. But yes, when I took her and
Speaker 1: she was a female, I don't know. I kind of
Speaker 1: feel sometimes females are a tad meteor.
Speaker 3: And I hate to say that.
Speaker 1: I don't mean to be against our own gender. My
Speaker 1: two male dogs were like frat boys.
Speaker 2: They were like these I didn't feel that. I felt
Speaker 2: that these were more tuned like Lucky and Frenchy were
Speaker 2: bonded too. That made a difference because they were a
Speaker 2: bonded pair. They were like, yeah, we're good, you know
Speaker 2: what I mean. And they never slept with us. These
Speaker 2: two when they see me get water and go into
Speaker 2: the bedroom like all right, hurry up, going to bed,
Speaker 2: let's go. Yeah, you know, yes, yeah. They seemed very
Speaker 2: in tuned, although they were kind of bullies in the
Speaker 2: beginning because they would I mean, my husband is a
Speaker 2: light sleeper, and they would start Sugar would start this
Speaker 2: low girl like get up, get and now I was
Speaker 2: like an idiot taking them out even before my coffee.
Speaker 2: That's how easily bullied I was.
Speaker 3: Well, you're you're a very good dog parent. That's why
Speaker 3: you are. I know you would say that I took
Speaker 3: them out. I didn't have my coffee yet, so bad,
Speaker 3: I know, I don't know. It's it's interesting about the difference.
Speaker 1: I mean, my last dog, I feel compared to all
Speaker 1: of them, and he passed away f months ago, so
Speaker 1: I'm in that dogless household right now, which is thank you,
Speaker 1: which is it's tough.
Speaker 3: I mean, you know, it's just.
Speaker 1: But and it's interesting because he was the only dog
Speaker 1: of all the dogs I've had who didn't want He
Speaker 1: never would sleep with me, uh huh. And it was
Speaker 1: really crazy, like never, but he was very happy to
Speaker 1: sleep in the bedroom, but in his bed.
Speaker 2: Interesting, very interesting. It's temperament. It's like, you know, here's
Speaker 2: Frenchie that we've had for thirteen years. Even at the
Speaker 2: end of his life, if you put him on his back,
Speaker 2: his legs were like a four poster.
Speaker 3: They never relaxed and.
Speaker 2: Lying around the first month. Yeah, no, it's true.
Speaker 3: It's very interesting.
Speaker 1: It's very I'm fascinated by dogs for this reason because
Speaker 1: they're all so very different. And what was familiar about
Speaker 1: Lucky and Frenchy to me is my last dog, Fredo.
Speaker 1: He came from Mississippi and he was very, very fearful,
Speaker 1: you know, and live I live in New York City,
Speaker 1: so like, oh, that was smart. But he was, you know,
Speaker 1: a tuck tale for like two years. When people are like, oh,
Speaker 1: just give him like a month and he'll be fine,
Speaker 1: it's like, yeah, no, no, it's interesting, you know, I mean, yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they're all different.
Speaker 2: I found it that way too. It was I just
Speaker 2: got used to the fact that they were just different
Speaker 2: temperaments and they were going to respond in their own way.
Speaker 2: And you know, the way Chris and I were trained
Speaker 2: as actors, which is so weird, is to listen for
Speaker 2: what was under the words, which of course trained us
Speaker 2: for our sons. Yeah, but also to deal with nonverbal dogs. Yes,
Speaker 2: you know, and to be able to communicate with them
Speaker 2: without words, you know, or to or to understand what
Speaker 2: they were trying to communicate to us. This was a benefit.
Speaker 2: It was truly a benefit to be trained.
Speaker 1: That right, right, And I think what you and Chris
Speaker 1: did and do as dog owners, which I hate to
Speaker 1: say it, but many do not, that you paid attention
Speaker 1: to their body language and their communication, which you know,
Speaker 1: I see people on the street and I'm like, why
Speaker 1: are you doing that? But I'm not going to interfere,
Speaker 1: But because people don't pay attention and they don't write.
Speaker 3: Have you noticed that? But the way you guys have.
Speaker 2: Walks with people, when I see people approaching, I feel
Speaker 2: like wow, or it makes me sad when I see
Speaker 2: people not let their dogs like sniff on there. Yes,
Speaker 2: I feel like, do you understand the whole purpose of
Speaker 2: this walk? No?
Speaker 3: And they don't. They don't.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think that's makes the big difference, because
Speaker 1: you know how you were trained.
Speaker 3: You know, when I first got my first dog, I
Speaker 3: read so many.
Speaker 1: Books and I used to watch Caesar Milan and all that,
Speaker 1: so I kind of right, and you did, and you
Speaker 1: kind of learn and like, oh wait, watch the body language,
Speaker 1: and I think that's the difference. Like I've seen people, young,
Speaker 1: very young people having a dog and it goes over
Speaker 1: and it sniffs the other dog's butt and they go.
Speaker 3: Don't do that, And I'm like, what, I know, right,
Speaker 3: we're not expecting you to. Yes, well, that's another thing.
Speaker 1: That's another thing I find and I know many people
Speaker 1: who and I'm sure you do as well, that they
Speaker 1: and there's a word for it that I always get wrong,
Speaker 1: but when you put human traits on an animal, and
Speaker 1: I know, yes, yes, that's it. Many people do that.
Speaker 2: Yes, right, and they're not humans and they're.
Speaker 1: Humans, yeah, they're animals, they're wired different canines.
Speaker 2: Yes, yea. So although I did have that moment that
Speaker 2: I described in the book where Frince he thought he
Speaker 2: was part of the coyote package, that was very funny.
Speaker 2: It was to see him raise his little head and
Speaker 2: make a little howl. It was just so I thought
Speaker 2: you were an amused boosh, my darling.
Speaker 3: Oh my goodness.
Speaker 1: I know, I felt like I knew all your dogs
Speaker 1: just by the way you describe them, and they was
Speaker 1: just it was just so very familiar, even though I
Speaker 1: don't know them. But no, you did you just did
Speaker 1: such a wonderful job with this book, and I'm so
Speaker 1: I'm so happy for you and that you wrote this.
Speaker 2: Thank you.
Speaker 3: And I know you're about you.
Speaker 1: You're doing you know, interviews and going on like a
Speaker 1: book tour. And I know I shouldn't even ask you
Speaker 1: this because it's too soon. But and what's next on
Speaker 1: your agenda.
Speaker 2: The next thing I'm going to do is put together.
Speaker 2: I do have this. I have a book of auto fiction.
Speaker 2: I did go to Catholic school for thirteen years and
Speaker 2: it was a nightmare. Yeah, and I did write a
Speaker 2: bunch of connected short stories about it. And if you
Speaker 2: go on my website, which is maryanlioni cooper dot com,
Speaker 2: because there's another Maryanione, but you will see.
Speaker 3: Yeah right, I didn't realize that.
Speaker 2: Not right, And you will see a video of me
Speaker 2: and Chris reading a story from that. And Chris is
Speaker 2: pretty hilarious because here's this Midwestern cowboy reading my grandfather,
Speaker 2: you know, saying like it's pretty funny. So I would
Speaker 2: like to publish that. But also I'm putting together. I've
Speaker 2: written a lot of essays, you know, I've written for
Speaker 2: the Boston Globe and a bunch of So I thought
Speaker 2: I'm going to put together a book of essays because
Speaker 2: I was, you know, I was at an event and
Speaker 2: I heard Anne Leary, who is hilarious, Dennis Leary's wife,
Speaker 2: reading from her book of essays, and I thought, geez,
Speaker 2: I think she wrote she wrote something about what it's
Speaker 2: like to be on the red carpet when your husband's
Speaker 2: a movie star and you're not. And I thought, I've
Speaker 2: written the exact same essay for the Globe. So I
Speaker 2: thought I should, I should put together this. Yeah, well
Speaker 2: that would be.
Speaker 3: Great, that's exciting.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and people are so distracted. I think essays
Speaker 2: are good.
Speaker 1: Essays are good, yes, because they're short. People have no
Speaker 1: attention spans.
Speaker 3: But that's all yeah, I know, you know, I know, yeah,
Speaker 3: they really don't. Absolutely, it's amazing.
Speaker 1: So yeah, well, okay, So if people want to buy
Speaker 1: your book, which I want them to do, they can
Speaker 1: do it through your website.
Speaker 2: Correct, Yes, And I prefer bookshop dot org because that
Speaker 2: gets independent bookstores or your local independent bookstore or Acassic Books.
Speaker 2: Of course. Oh, I'm going to be in Brooklyn at
Speaker 2: Green Green Light Books. I have to get the tag upstate.
Speaker 3: I have a date. I do.
Speaker 2: I do.
Speaker 3: I did some homework.
Speaker 1: Wait, you're going to be in Brooklyn on Wednesday, September
Speaker 1: eighteenth at seven thirty.
Speaker 2: Thank you.
Speaker 3: You're very welcome.
Speaker 2: I'm over my head here, thank you. Yeah, so I'm
Speaker 2: looking forward to that. And uh yeah, we lived in
Speaker 2: New York for seventeen years. I miss it terribly. Well.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you're going to be around You're in Rhode Island,
Speaker 3: you're up in Almany, Massachusetts.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so you're doing a whole thing, which my listeners,
Speaker 1: because there are also people who are listening to this
Speaker 1: are also listening to this around the country, so they
Speaker 1: can actually by going to your website Mary dot com. Yes,
Speaker 1: thank you, and then I definitely want to talk to
Speaker 1: you again.
Speaker 2: So thank you.
Speaker 1: Dogs whatever you want, but all the best to you,
Speaker 1: and thank you so much for writing it. Like I said,
Speaker 1: it's just it's just so lovely, lovely. I feel like
Speaker 1: I know Jesse, I know your family, and it.
Speaker 3: Just like kills well really I really do mean it.
Speaker 3: It like warms my heart. So thank you for sharing
Speaker 3: your life with us.
Speaker 2: Thank you for having me. I really appreciate it. Maria
Speaker 2: shar has never been a raider operator and does not
Speaker 2: see you Rader moamigator