Speaker 1: What is up, Fellowsiko's I am dan Fa Valley coming
at you with another twenty twenty four twenty twenty five MBA.
Look at we are on to number twenty seven. It's
the New York Knicks, which means I'm talking to Knicks
Film School's Andrew Claudio. Follow him on the Twitter machine.
That's at Andrew J. Claudio underscore I'm going to be
up on your screen and the link that will be
in the YouTube and podcast description as well as where
you can support Knicks Film School. That'll be in the
YouTube and podcast description as well. They do an exhaustively
fantastic job over there, so go support them. I wanted
to pre record this intro because we when we were talking,
it was just before it happened during I'm not quite
clear on it. That Chams of ESPN that's going to
take a while to get used to reported that Mitchell
Robinson is now just going to be out following ankle
surgery through the end of twenty twenty four into twenty
twenty five. Doesn't impact anything we're talking about. Andrew actually
talks about not expecting to see him before the All
Star break, so, but just wanted to add that note here,
and also just to remind you, go join our discord.
The link to that's in the podcast YouTube description. We
will be running our over under competition. If you win,
you will get a free merch item of your choice
to support the show, and I think this year I
got to clear it with Grant, but I'm sure he's
on board. We're going to allow the winner to also
guest host. Maybe you'll do a mail bag and you
can throw the questions at us if that's something you're
interested in. So the link to that will be in
our The link to our discord will be in the
podcast and YouTube description. The contest is only going to
be running for members of that discord. We've already had
a bunch of new members since this started, so hurry up.
I'll be putting it out this weekend and you'll have
until I'll probably leave it up opening night for you
to go through. So head over to the discord and look.
If you haven't done so already, just subscribe Apple Spotify
on YouTube, hit the sub button, turn post notifications on,
leave comments, likes, comment on our shorts too. Hope that
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this isn't part of the merch, even though it's a
cool shirt, But visit our shop and you can support
the show that way by buying some of our our swag,
our hardwood Knox swag. That's enough out of me, though,
Let's get to talking a lot of Knicks with the
one the only kfs is g Mac. What is up,
Fellowsiko's I am dan fa Valley coming at you with
another twenty twenty four to twenty twenty five NBA season
look ahead, renentering the home stretch. We're up to the
New York Knicks, who did basically nothing this offseason. But
we're gonna talk to Gmac from Nick's Film School anyway.
He's also the producer a producer for the Game Theory
podcast with Sam Sam Bessini. Very good podcast if you
love cover listening to the NBA stuff at large to
go check that out. And he's also the host, the
founder the CEO of Mets Therapy, which you can find
on all your social platforms Instagram, TikTok, I'm assuming YouTube
as well. Andrew Claudio does a whole lot. Does it
super well. No one else I'd rather talk Nicks with,
especially at this moment you are coming off of We're
recording this on a Thursday. Nothing really happened on Wednesday,
So how are you doing.
Speaker 2: Nope, nothing happened.
Speaker 3: I'm here to clearly just break down the Knicks win
over the Washington Wizards in the preseason, because that's the
only thing that happened in the New York area. No
teams won gigantic historic baseball games that advanced them into
playoff rounds that they never advanced to last night.
Speaker 2: So happy to be here, Dan, As always.
Speaker 1: I am legitimately always happy when, like die hard fans,
their teams are doing really well. And so congratulations to
you on the Mets making the NLCS. Was this I'm
so unplugged from every other sport that's not the NBA.
Was this even in the back of your mind as
an expectation entering this season for this team?
Speaker 2: This season?
Speaker 3: No, And when I say this season, there's like two
months of this season. I thought that they were headed
for ninety losses and blowing up the team. And then
June first rolled around and they just they made some
roster changes throughout the year. They've been really good at
admitting mistakes on the fly.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 3: And then I don't know how plugged into you are
to like the gimmicks that have showed up. They have
a second basement named Jose Iglesias that has a song
called OMG that is like number one on the charts,
and he's like a pop star and he's the remix
coming out on Friday with Pitbull on it.
Speaker 2: It's a Spanish song and it is a banger.
Speaker 3: I encourage every His name is Kendelita and so like
that became an anthem for them, and from the time
they called him up from Triple A, this pop star,
he like, the team has the best record in baseball.
Then I'm not sure how how much you're aware of Grimace,
the McDonald's character.
Speaker 1: I know, yeah, I know him.
Speaker 3: So they have also the best record in baseball since
Grimace randomly throughout the first pitch on what his quote
unquote birthday is. And f first, it was funny because
they won eight straight games after Grimmace throughout the first pitch,
and I was like, oh, wow, this is stupid, but
it's fun.
Speaker 2: They're winning.
Speaker 3: And now like you have Mets fans at the game
last night, wearing a Grimace costume, not a jersey for
Francisco Indoor Peter Alanzo their favorite player. No I decided
to dress as Grimace to a Mets game, so like
the Hawk tour girl throughout the first pitch.
Speaker 2: They have a great record since then.
Speaker 3: Pete Alonzo, their first baseman, went pumpkin picking and brought
a pumpkin to the locker room and he's like, this
is the rally pumpkin, and they just like keep winning
with the like there's so many rally pumpkins.
Speaker 1: Still there might be rotten.
Speaker 3: Yeah, probably, it's like covering to champagne. But that's the thing.
All the things in the past that we'd look at
and be like this is stupid. Now it's like, oh,
that's that's cute, and it's cute because they're winning, and winning,
you know, adds a different context to it. So, uh,
it's been really fun and I hope it continues.
Speaker 2: Well.
Speaker 1: I'm excited for you, excited for all Mets fans, even
Yankees fans too, and Padres fans as well. They have
a special place in my heart because San Diego fucking rules.
We're top basketball though, and for anyone. We did a
POD shortly after the cal Bridges trade, so we're not
going to focus like too much on the normal look
ahead stuff like this is going to be largely about
the Karl Anthony Towns trade, which is not Doesn't it
feel like it's probably because it happened while we were
going through training camps and the preseason that since started.
It hasn't even been two weeks, and it feels like
it's been two months since it happened. So my first
question to you is did it surprise you at all?
Not necessarily that the Knicks were interested, but just the
timing of it and the steps that like it went
through together, you know, the reporting around it, like what
they put on the table initially versus what they ended
up giving up.
Speaker 3: So I have to bring the Mets back into this,
because the Mets had to sweat out the final week
of the playoff week of the baseball regular season for
a playoff spot. They were going back and forth with
two other teams, the Braves and the Padres, not the
Padres the Diamondbacks for the last two playoffs spots, and
Friday night, the last Friday night of the regular season.
Speaker 2: I'm sitting there. The Mets are losing.
Speaker 3: This is back when I was like, oh man, they're
gonna crash and burn again these Mets. And I'm texting
a bunch of friends that are Mets fans. I'm like, hey,
this about two games less, not the end of the world.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 3: And then someone just texted me like holy shit. It's like,
whoa what what do you mean? Like I'm staring at
the Mets game. What happened? And dearly departed Asian woljen
Rowski is the one I usually go to for alerts.
For alerts, I didn't go to my phone. It's like,
what are people ho holy shitting about?
Speaker 2: Uh?
Speaker 3: And the timing of it being that Friday night when
Media Day is two days away and I'm thinking I
could still kind of tiptoe my way into the NBA season,
and I like.
Speaker 2: Okay, this is this, This Villanova thing is gonna be fun.
Speaker 3: You know this this this all four of them actually
sharing the court together.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 2: And then to see the trade happen.
Speaker 3: I think the timing of it being before Media Day,
like right the same around the same time that the
Dame Lillard trade happened, was shocking. The reality of it
when you look at why it was now when you
factor in like all the maneuvering they were gonna have
to do to make this happen, the fact that Randall
is headed into basically a contract year because he can
opt out at the end of the year, and it
didn't look like they were going to land on an extension.
The fact that like Evencenzo, I don't even know how
disgruntled he was. He's refuted any inklings of it. So
I don't know if that him not being in the
starting lineup was actually that big an issue, but the
fact that it seemed like like if they wanted to
do this, this was really their last chance to make
it happen, especially under the new CBA restrictions. So it's
become less and less shocking as the last ten days
or two weeks have gone by. I'll say, the initial
shock of like, oh my god, they they just did
this was there, but realizing the timing almost had to
be then it has made it less and less of
a surprise. And I will say, like, I'm not a reporter,
I'm not a journalist, but I did go to the
Summer League, and this was the talk at Summer League after,
like everybody was asking me about mcl and I'm like, oh, yeah,
it's exciting. It's like, hey, you're hearing this thing about
Towns and how they're still interested in him, and it's like, wait, really,
so that like that is the conversation was the conversation,
And we've obviously heard their interest in Towns for years.
But the fact that it happened is not shocking. The
fact of exactly when it happened was indeed shocking.
Speaker 1: What do you think went into or was the biggest
factor to them kind of relenting where they tried to
package Mitchell Robinson initially rather than Dante DiVincenzo. There's even
been some reporting about they weren't initially going to include
the first round pick, and so I understand your your
view of well kind of had to be now when
you look at the restrictions of their payroll moving forward.
But I've seen a lot of people frame it as
and I tend to agree with Mackrey's interpretation of this
where it's like the Mitch injury accelerated their plans to
do this, and I'm just like the Knicks had to
know that this was a possibility before, Like it was
actually announced. I know it kind of cropped up that
Mitch would miss time. Oh okay, I don't necessarily ascribe
to the idea that, oh, the Mitch injury like accelerated,
We're willing to trade Dante DiVincenzo now. So what was
it the Julius randall in his future or was it
really just they thought now was the time to strike,
like we've kind of continued to go all in. I'm
just curious as to what you think was the biggest
factor with them again relenting on what was their baseline offer,
and it seems like at least two degrees worth where
it's like they didn't want to give up that Detroit
first rounder and they didn't want to give up Evincenzo,
and they end up giving up both.
Speaker 2: It's a combination of everything.
Speaker 3: The fact that I mean, if say Mitch was gonna
miss the first month of the season and you're looking
at him back in November, I don't think they do
this deal.
Speaker 2: Say Hertenstein resigns, I don't think they do this deal.
Speaker 3: Say you have more confidence in Julius as ye're playing
the five, which he just Timms has not played him
at the five all the entire time that he's been here,
and he probably isn't going to be playing the five in.
Speaker 2: In Minnesota either, because Nasried will.
Speaker 3: Play in those lineups where Julius and nas can play
the five together. They just had a legit need at center,
and I will co sign my colleague Benji Ridhols, who said, like,
that's not why you make a Karl Anthony Challenge trade
because you need a center, and all the reporting has
suggested they went out looking for other center options, and
I think at the end of the day, with the
Julius extension negotiations probably getting to a point where he
wasn't going to take why the market, he wasn't gonna
take what they were offering him, which was probably less
than what he thinks he believes on the market. And
the fact that you know, if they wanted to do
this for years, they have a certain belief in Karl
Anthony Towns that he makes them better. And the more
I've talked myself into this trade, I think there's there's
some truth to what there. They can be offensively, I
think it's a combination of now they haven't need at center.
This guy that plays center is an upgrade over Randall,
we might lose Julius at the end of the year anyway,
and waiting to see to do this in the season
doesn't allow us to do the very cute cat mechanics
of what they did with all of their non minimum
minimums that they stacked to make this trade happen. Like
the actual timing of when they had to do this
was now, so that we don't have the same roster
and salary cap restrictions you would have to you have
to have to navigate in season, and it just made
it almost like it was almost like a deadline, like
we have to do this before the season starts, and
the best time to do it is before media day,
so at least these things we can get a full
preseason in before, you know, with all these new pieces
playing together.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's interesting because they still could have made it happen.
You just have had to give up like a member
of your rotation in addition to the two players are
already given up.
Speaker 2: So is that more advantageous do it now?
Speaker 1: Then that's why give the I don't know if like
the difference between like giving up precious thatchuas like would
force me into that timeline, But I totally understand.
Speaker 2: It's Minnesota doing that, precious Atchua.
Speaker 1: No, you need to find another team. And I know
people are saying, well, it's harder to make those roster spots,
definitely harder mid season, but there's enough like trade exceptions
and mid level exceptions salting around you could have done it.
I don't have a problem with the timing. I was
just fascinated that, like what did it take to get
you here?
Speaker 3: Like?
Speaker 1: Why wasn't this done sooner? Was my point? If you
if you're all of a sudden like relented on Devens show. See,
I've kind of had a hard time wrapping my head
around that. I'm not faulting them for doing it. I
understand the trade for both sides, but I found that
element intriguing.
Speaker 3: So I see the way I perceived your question was
why didn't they do it? Why wouldn't they wait till
later to do it? Why wouldn't they wait until during
the season. Why did they do it sooner? From all accounts,
it sounds like they tried to. Apparently this was a
draft night conversation that they had when they had to draft.
You know, Julius wasn't extension eligible then either so maybe
they went into the summer thinking Mitch will be back.
You know, we'll see his progress, we'll see if we
can work something out with Julius, and you know, they
obviously found out that they were going to have a
need at center, which, like it was Monday of that week,
it was reported that Mitch was gonna miss till at
earliest December. And I'll just I'll be honest, I'm not
one hundred percent sure we see mister Robinson. I'll say
the All Star Break is the is the date I'm
circling if he I would.
Speaker 1: Agree with you that if I'll be shocked if we
see him before twenty twenty five.
Speaker 3: Yeah, like Kmer porzingis coming back? Is the conversation who
comes back first?
Speaker 1: That's a great I didn't even think of that. Yeah,
I will say if he's if we're talking All Star break,
part of me just wonders at that point if he's
even still on the roster, like was he salary ballast
as part of another trade at.
Speaker 3: That One of our Claudio Casino questions is how how
many games does Mitchell Robinson play for the Knicks this year?
Speaker 2: And the over under I set was point five?
Speaker 1: What did you take.
Speaker 2: Well, so we haven't done that episode.
Speaker 3: Okay, so that's the spoiler for when we do that episode,
is that will the Knicks? Will mister Robinson play for
the Knicks this year? Is my is my question.
Speaker 1: I'm not even gonna answer that because I don't have to.
That's that's a really good question.
Speaker 2: M m.
Speaker 1: There were so many different ways that you can just give.
But maybe he just still injured and can't play this year.
Speaker 3: That's the season ending injury. What this may end up,
And this is like no disrespect to Mitch. I hope
he comes back. I hope he should contribute to this team.
I think there's gonna be series. Like, the best defender
of Joel Embiid in the playoffs last year was Mitchell Robbinson.
Hertenstein couldn't stay out of foul trouble. They had no
other real answers at center except for when they would
switch Anonobi onto onto him. But Mitch, when Embiid wasn't
trying to rip his ankle off, defended him better than
anybody else in that series, And I like, I would
want him for a series against Philly.
Speaker 1: The other thing, too, is like Mitchell Robinson is critical
if you want to view the Knicks is deep enough
still there's there's almost like you could make the case
and I might even make case that he's now going
to be almost in his ideal role where we don't
need to care if Mitche Robinson can only play twenty
two minutes tonight, like that's all you're gonna and that'll
have to have some overlap with the Town's minutes anyway,
So you've him coming off the bench because everyone's concerned
about the depth of this rotation now, which is a
fair concern. But if Mitchell Robinson's healthy, like that's a
starting aliber player coming off the bench, kind of like
you've that we've grown to see the Knicks have over
these past few years, and that just becomes huge. I know,
again there's overlap, but that's Karl Anthony Town's best position.
But those two could play together. So yeah, I still
view him is just super important. But is he going
to be healthy? And you have to make the call
you're all in on now. So even if you think
he's coming back this year, you don't think it's still
after the trade deadline, you're trading him probably with the
night year of his value. But like you need to
win games, like your window is now, like you decided
it's now.
Speaker 3: They've done a really good job the last I mean
since Leon Rose took over of we're not going to
make a move because everyone's telling us to like we
will if we don't like the deal, We're not going
to make it. Donovan Mitchell as example one. Right, they
had plenty of opportunities to trade Mitch Robinson before he
signed this new contract. There was a Julius Randall trade
on the table if they wanted to pursue it. Like,
they had options to make deals for a long time,
and then they had this offseason where I like my
theory and I have nothing to support this, but I
have run it by some people and they're like, oh, it's.
Speaker 2: Not that's not completely off.
Speaker 3: The first free agent that they ever lost, the first
player that they wanted to bring back that they weren't
able to bring back, was as Aa Hartenstein, and it's
because they signed him to such a good deal the
first time, and his value got so high that it actually,
like by CBA rules, like made it impossible for them
to bring him back, and that changed the calculus to oh,
now we're losing assets. It used to be like if
we if we think we want to keep something, we
keep it. If we don't want to keep it, goodbye
our j Barrett, Goodbye Manuel Quickly, goodbye Quentin Grimes. Like
they've found ways to part with players they don't want
anymore on their terms. This was the first time that
something left and it wasn't on their terms, and it
rechanged the calculus to man, we're gonna start losing pieces.
Speaker 2: Now it's time to go all in.
Speaker 3: And you saw them go like all the chips to
the middle of the table for Michael Bridges and now
it's like, all right, I actually found some chips in
my pocket.
Speaker 2: Here we're going all in for Karl Anthony Towns.
Speaker 3: And you know that's that's why the NIXT being all
in is going to be a new feeling of like, oh,
this is a fun story. The next getting a two
seed or like beating the calves in the first round. Now,
now there's expectations with this roster.
Speaker 1: Is that when you're looking because we're gonna get into
more Karl Anthony town stuff. But I'm asking everyone for
a promotional episode that will go up, like right when
the season starts, what is the biggest storyline that you're
tracking for this team, is it the overarching expectations now
because they've made all these moves, is that maybe one
of the new additions, Like what is it?
Speaker 3: I mean, just storylines are concerned. It's it's it has
to be like what Carl Anthony Towns looks like and
well in New York, I think is the biggest and.
Speaker 1: That round and I'm even sorry drop, but that to
you would trounce like what is Michel Bridges? We're just
it's so I would agree with you, I think just
because Michel Bridges is just universally like he just fits
anywhere and does anything. So yeah, which is interesting that
they gave up so much for this guy. But the
biggest storyline is, oh this other center that they brought
in and they detected. They didn't give nearly as much
draft equity up. They gave up real stuff.
Speaker 2: But so that's the funny thing.
Speaker 3: And again you alluded to to again my colleague, mister
mcre like when the Knicks went all in for Michel Bridges,
I don't know anybody that said that was a bad
trade by the Nick Like they gave up a lot.
They definitely probably overpaid for Michel Bridges like five picks,
one heavily protected Milwaukee pick and some salary failler like
and all the swaps right. But everybody's immediate thought was, man,
they have anenobium Bridges like two of the best role
players potentially in the NBA, the one of the best
wing combos. That you've now created something that is contender worthy,
and if they could figure out the right lineup combinations
as a chance to be deadly and with towns, because
there's so much concerned with towns, the person the personality,
the match with the market and what he's just flat
out been over the course of his career. The Knicks
gave up just flat out less than what they gave
up for Bridges. But there's so many questions for one
trade over the other.
Speaker 2: So like it.
Speaker 3: It's why I just have no questions mcil bridge. I
think he's gonna fit perfectly in New York. The guy
never misses games and is playing for Tom Thibodau. It's
gonna be a match made in heaven, you know. Although
I had one of my again, another Claudia Casino bet,
how many games will cal Bridges missed this year?
Speaker 2: Point five?
Speaker 3: I dare somebody to take the over under Tibbs, Like,
did you see it the day that the mcal Bridges
misses his first game and it's like, oh, TIBs up
to his old of course he misses his first game
under top Thibodeau. It has to be the concerns about
Karl Anthony Towns. And here's the thing. I think they're
gonna be an outstanding regular season team. I think they're
gonna finish top three or four in offense, top twelve
or thirteen in defense. They're gonna win close to fifty
five games. But the expectation's changed now. This isn't the
let's just win a bunch of games and hopefully make
the second round anymore. There's a Conference finals expectations on
this team and this roster, and especially when you've gone
this all in that you know, for the first time
in a long time, I can say it will be
a disappointment for me if the Knicks don't make it.
And I welcome the challenge of that storyline and who's
who it's gonna fall on, which part of it might
fall on tips, But back to the original point, Karl
Anthony Towns and going all in on him as your
second best guy. Will have a lot to say about
whether they accomplish it or not.
Speaker 1: I think mine is in his Dovetails Nightly with where
I wanted to start with the Karl Anthony Town stuff
on the court is they played basically every trade ship
that they have, basically like they still have stuff they
could do, but they paid basically all the trade ships
that they have. And I would argue because of who's
gone out, the types of players that have come in,
but I don't think you can argue with their fits.
I find them even more reliant on Jalen Brunson than
they were before, just because of I had concerns before
this trade about is there enough playmaking shock creation with
Julius Randall going out and of course going to how
those same concerns. But I'm fascinated that they made these
series of bets, pretty much all of which are an arguable.
They're arguable, but none of You don't look at anything
they've done and say they shouldn't have done it, even
the Michael Bridges price tag. They've waited long enough, by
the way, you know, we thought like they sat out
these other sweep stakes that didn't make sense the trade
landscape has changed. I don't think they made moves for
the sake of making moves. They just got good enough
to where it was you can make these decisions now.
I'm just fascinated to see, like, how much do you
think Jalen Brunson benefits from the Knicks basically playing you know,
Josh Hart debatable if you want to go five out
the call five out with him, but you can even
see it in the preseason. He's gonna get lost in
the amount of space that he has in the half
court relative to the past two years. It's like how
big one? How big of like a boon is this
for him specifically? But then two do you would all
agree or find interest in? Okay, the Knicks made all
these moves, and yet you could argue now that Jalen
Brunson is even more indispensable than he was before.
Speaker 3: If I had any where, he's about Jalen bruns and
I'd be with you. I just he's the prince that
was promised man like that, between the extension and the
ways he's gotten better in both of his first two seasons,
despite the circumstances not always creating a world where someone
can get better, Like the guy averaged twenty eight point
seven points per game last year and for half of it,
Precious to Chua played the flour you know, next to
Josh Hart and Isaiah Hartenstein. Like the spacing issues were
there last year with three non shooters on the floor
and oh, by the way, his first year he largely
played next to Julius Randall, RJ. Barrett and Isaiah Hart
and Mitchell Robinson, you know, like they would go to
lineups with Manuel quickly that were great and obviously boosted
the spacing. And you know, I this is gonna be
an issue for Twitter, which who cares throughout the season
the Josh Hart's starting, Like, there's the only way you
can go five out is if Juce McBride plays the two,
And I like, I want to see Deuce with those
starters lineups because I want to see them actually have
five shooters on the floor at the same time. But
what Josh Hart does on the floor is contribute to winning,
Like he's a playoff hero for this franchise and one
of the leaders. So I'm at the point where I
just I'm fine with all the good things that Josh
Hart does on the floor, leading to winning, and like
if it futs in the paint, then you like, there's
rebounding that Josh Hart adds, and there's all, by the way,
some big playoff threes. Like I'm not putting it past
him to shoot thirty four thirty five percent from three
this year. They'll still ignore him, but he just has
to make them pay.
Speaker 1: I would just say, even more important than the percentage
for me would just be the volume. I'm a big
believer in that volume.
Speaker 2: Yeah watch, yeah, yeah, yeah, I agree.
Speaker 3: So like, look, Jalen Brunson now playing with nobody in
the dunker spot is going to be fascinating because he's
someone that's been able to score at a high volume
with so many people in the paint. Now that it's
going to be much more open, they've created an environment
for the offensive ceiling to be much higher, not just
for him but for everybody, but specifically to him. I mean,
are we looking at a thirty point season point per
game season.
Speaker 2: From Jalen Brunson?
Speaker 3: Is he headed toward a Dame Lillard's ceiling of offensive efficiency?
Speaker 1: I'll be doing BR's staple MVP Ladder this year, so
everyone can get mad at me. Advance my first one,
my preseason one, I had him fourth and my line
was just like, this is going to be a thirty
point eight as this season from him at minimum. I
do worries he can see ghosts when he gets into
the paint of like the body of the mixed players
pass and he gets spooked. But like, there's my concern.
Wasn't that I doubt down Jalen bruntson. It's just that
when you look at these really high level contenders, most
of them are going to have at least two guys
in the top fifty of self generated buckets. The Knicks
have one of those guys. Karlton Towns was not in
the top fifty last year. Michale Bridges not even as
the focal point of then that's offense, wasn't in the
top fifty last year. I'm not saying it won't work.
I find it fascinating and it's a huge it's on.
It's a testament to Jalon Brunt and that the Knicks
feel confident enough to travel this path when you look
at the asset outlay, because he is that good, and
I think that they're they're they're leaning into the five
out model. And what I think can really work. But
then they're also kind of like they're zagging a little
bit because this the entire thought process, like you need
those two high level creators and as right now until
Karl Anthony Towns and Miquel Bridges proves me wrong, both
of whom are exceptional players. But like the Knicks don't
have that, they have one, and I think the rebuke
to that too would be they had one before. If
you just don't trust Julius Randall, Okay, that's fine. I
just U miss having more on ball gravity than a
Towns or a Bridges right now as a as a
playmaker specifically. So I I think Nick some Nick Sands
already interpreted it as like I'm negative on this trade.
I'm fascinated by this. It's not. I don't have a
negative feeling towards it. I'm just this feels genuinely unique
where it's, oh, we unders dan what they're doing. But
to be this dependent on Jalen Brunson, which you always
would have been dependent on Jalen Brunson, But like I
maybe they see something in Towns or Bridges that we
just haven't seen yet. And there's there's that potential too
but like Oji Adenobi's not We're done. I'm done. This
has been like we didn't like six years. Is like, oh,
he might ads some on ball layers. He has those
like one to three drives a game where it's, oh,
like he's kind of spinning, all right, all right, Clyde'll
say spinning and winning at that point. But so I
find it the word is fascinating. I'm not down on it.
I'm not super high on it. I'm just I'm intrigued.
Speaker 3: What's the key word in what you said about Julius
just now? On ball offs, well, playoffs, yes, which I
Towns has some questions he has to answer too, But
like the on ball gravity is a thing like when
do you have to pay attention to Julius Randall when
he has the ball? And I was looking forward to
him being on the floor with four shooters at the
same time this season and then going into some some
versions of Ojan Andobi as your center, which I mean
would have went completely against Tom Thibadeau's philosophy of rimp protection,
but it leans into some of the death lineups that
we've seen over the years, which I talked about the
last time the Knicks made a blockbuster trade with you. Uh,
the on ball gravity was a thing and like Mitchell
Robinson even he was there's this weird playoff series against
the Calves where Mitchell Robinson was attracting to every time
the shot went up. So it's not even on ball
or off ball, it's on shot attempt or it's like
not even a quantifiable stat right, Like he's so important
that we're now going to send both Mobiley and Allen
at him.
Speaker 1: On the numbers that year were the Knicks' most efficient
offense came after Mitchell Robinson offensive ree.
Speaker 3: So that that's the That's a big difference though, is
we've gone from prioritizing as many shot attempts on a
possession as possible and on ball gravity to prioritizing making
your first shot as often as possible and off ball gravity.
Speaker 2: Because to your point.
Speaker 3: About spacing, the fact that it's really just Josh Hart
that you can sag off of and then he'll be
able to provide some rebounding as a result, what you've
seen in how they've played so far, when a defender
puts a foot in the paint or tries to you know,
sag a little bit on drives off of Josh Hart.
He follows stead defender and you know, makes it so
that way the gap to him getting a rebound is shorter.
And it helps when Jalen Brunson doesn't need that much
space anyway. But when it's just one defender that is
now gonna be potentially double teaming and you have Josh
Hart already mid drive, it just it creates more opportunity.
You've seen step Brothers right the will Fer It's like
there's more room for activities, Dan, like, I can't wait
for so much room for activities on the basketball court
on the offensive end for the Knicks this year, and
we haven't even talked about what I think they're gonna
be on defense yet.
Speaker 1: Which we will get to, but I want to stick
with the offense and I want to ask the baseline
simplified question first. Karnathony Towns is guarded like he's a
def con level one threat from beyond the arc, because
he is. But I've always just had issues with his volume,
with the exception of maybe one season. Will he take
more threes on this iteration than he was at he
was under he was at the same number as Julius
Randall per game last year, What like is this do
you see him getting back to seven or eight. He's
never even had a season where he was at eight.
Speaker 3: I'm pulling up a stat because I want to make
sure I get the number right. So Julius Randall two
years ago on the Knicks shot eight point three threes
a game per thirty six minutes.
Speaker 1: He shot probably four because Tims was playing him fifty.
Speaker 3: Minutes eight point four, right, look at that, the exact
same lowd was managed. Good job Tibbs quite literally. So
I what I remember from that year is the volume.
It was up there with Steph Curry for three is
a game. And it's to your point about the emphasis,
but I think that's what they're gonna do is just
like Kat, we need you at eight to nine threes
a game, and it's gonna be the same emphasis, and
it's gonna be part of our formula, and they're gonna
take forty to fifty threes per game as a team.
And I mean, for those who have had questions about
Tom Thibeau on the offensive end in the past, I've
seen it up close. This man is not the dinosaur
that you know he was. I mean, his talent has
dictated how he his teams have played. But like, I
think they're gonna lean very heavy into the Celtics model
of like get as many threes up a game, they
have the shooting to do it, And I think that's
just that's the direction. This is all headed, dude, especially
from a Town's perspective, Like it wouldn't shock me if
he's averaging close to nine three is a game at
least for thirty six this season.
Speaker 1: Is there anything else here? Because also we talk a
lot about the space and John Brunson is gonna get
Towns has kind of never had this perfect storm of
circumstances where last two years in Minnesota, not only is
he not really the primary screener anymore because Rudy Gobert
has been there. One of the things that kind of
flew under the radars that Minnesota's wing shooting was a depthsit,
which is why everyone's elated they have Dante DiVincenzo. So
now he's the primary screener, has all this different sort
of space, and I know that John Brunton Towns pick
and roll will be like the thing everyone wants to see,
But is there anything else? Like maybe I don't actually
think they're gonna go to this too much where it's
Town's without Brunson, because I think so much of his
value might be intermingled with what Jalen Brunson's able to do.
But like when you're talking about Jalen Brunson maybe not
initiating everything or finishing plays, is there's something about Karl
Anthony Towns that you're most interested to see how he'll
impact the off whether it's stuff in the post or
does he like how often does he play in minors
with Brunson, anything along those lines.
Speaker 3: So I've I've talked myself into him as a hub
like that was always my thought before the trade that
the Knicks could how they can make up for losing
Hertenstein is that you make Julius the new Hertenstein on offense,
and you run the offense through him as hub in
the high post, and then you have Anonobe guard the
center on the other end, and it's it's you don't
lose much with Kat. I don't think he's had to
your point about his perimeter shooting, his wing shooting not
being as good. This team's also gonna cut a ton
this year, So if you operate out of the high
post and you've got Anonobe cutting, you got Bridges cutting,
you got Josh Hart cutting, or any of these bench
pieces you know you have. You have options now for
him to get closer to the He's never averaged more
than four point eight assists per game, but like maybe
he can get back to that being a regular thing
where Kat's averaging like five assists or maybe just closer
to four and a half. With with that being how
he does things where you have guys moving around him
and creating opportunities. So him becoming more of a passer
this year, as weird as it sounds, because you think
Karl Anthony Towns, you think shooting, but I think there
is an element to his game now that he's going
to be in some really per circumstances on the offensive
end that can elevate as well.
Speaker 1: I am really interested to see if he can do
this stuff. Like you know, especially the past two years,
we're not seeing him passing a ton out of the
short role to the corners or cutters, and like that's
something we know the Knicks are gonna do, especially when
it comes to like I think the biggest thing for
him might be he's in space, like can he find
those corner shooters for the Knicks Like that ends up
being huge and that's a way for him to maybe
I don't want to say, inflate his assist total, but
average more assists. And that's not necessarily hub stuff, but
that stuff that Isaiah Hartenstein was really good at.
Speaker 3: It's also stuff that Julius Randall was really good at.
And last year when Jalen Brunson was their only guy
and this there's this Kings game from last year that
I'm gonna always bring up because it was a Eureka
moment for me where Mike Brown I think he's a
good coach, but for some reason, the entire game was
like I'm gonna just double Jalen at half court and
the Knicks just like hit Josh hard on the short
roll and Josh was playing four on three and then
if it wasn't Josh Hartam hit.
Speaker 2: Hartenstein on the short role.
Speaker 3: Josh Harty eleven assists that night, hart sided six and
Brunston was like, fine, I'll just like this is what
we'll do with when they double, And it was the
moment I realized, oh, even if you double him, we
have a plant. And now Carl Anthony Towns is in
this short role and like Josh Art could still be
there too, But I project that that Heart will be
somewhat of a screener, especially if they're gonna like put
weaker defenders on him on the offense on the on
the offensive side of the ball, and so I I
think they'll bring him into a lot of actions. And
if you double and you bring Josh Hart, then guess
who's also on the corners, Like Carl Anthony Towns is
on the corner as well. And so also if you
do the brunts in to cat pick and roll and
you decide to like play with fire and double to
your point, he's either guy like a lane to the
basket because he's rolling, or he's got two of the
best corner three points and bridges in Ananovi, or like
Duce McBride out there to potentially, you know, win, potentially
lead to a possession of points. So I'm I'm excited
about the offensive side of the ball for the Knicks.
Speaker 2: It's it's the thing I'm most excited to patten.
Speaker 1: I'll be honest, I'm also I'm curious if he can
do more of that stuff on like kind of I
don't want to say dead stop drives, like maybe he's popping.
He's catching like out of the pick and roll and
he decides like he's going to tack off the dribble.
Julius Rendal was also kind of good at that stuff
where it's not catching it on the roll and making
those reads necessarily, it's ken you if he's gonna get downhill,
which Town's has the ability to do, can he find
more of those you know, those kickout opportunities or those
cutters in those situations. Again, I don't think he's ever
operated with any semblance of spacing like the Knicks are
going to have now. Even with Josh Hart being on
the floor.
Speaker 3: H deep Man was playing hold on the man was
playing next to Rudy Gobert like the last two seasons,
like out of position and then like Jaden McDaniel's great
wing defender. You know, it reminded me a lot of
Mitchell Robinson and our j Barrett next to Julius, Like
that's why Julius had to get the volume up and
he wasn't that great a three point shooter. Well, yeah,
kat is. Now there's gonna be a ton of space
for him to operate as well.
Speaker 1: What do you make of the defense now post Towns trade?
I think the only thing I'll say before I throw
it to you is, I do think people have a
very outmoded view of what Karl Anthony Towns is on defense,
and I was probably guilty of that like early last season,
still like hanging on to it. I think he's made
a lot of strides, maybe not in the way that
Tibbs is used to using his bigs when you look
at making strides, but this idea that like the Knicks
have just punted on defense in the middle is just
it's so hyperbolic to me, and I was surprised that
so many people had that sentiment following the trade.
Speaker 3: So I'd actually be curious to turn the question back
on you.
Speaker 2: Then what those what? Okay? So I have to answer it.
I mean, I have my concerns.
Speaker 3: What is the question that you're the same So, just like,
what are your thoughts on Kat's as Kat as a
defender if you think people have have gone through far
one direction about him as a defender his I'm I
have my hesitations, and I think it's why expecting a
Tom Thibodeaux team to you know, be top ten in
defense again, or you know, to have top ten in
both is probably not happening.
Speaker 2: But I also recognized what he was. Everybody points to
the Denver series.
Speaker 3: He didn't shut down Jokic what he did, And Dane
Moore came on our pot in and spoke to this,
like he would redirect Jokic to go beat or because
he just used his his big body to get in
the way, like he made things difficult for uh for
for Yokic, And I think sometimes that's what he's gonna
have to do if he's playing against Embiid or if
he's playing against you know, Jannis, and then you have
these these wings that play big, like Anonobe or at
times uh Mikal bridges that he can direct traffic to.
But I'm curious, do you think he's like am I
should I give him more credit as like a stopper
in the middle.
Speaker 2: Then I think he might. He might be. Then then
I was originally giving him.
Speaker 1: I don't think he's a defensive anchor. I like that's
I don't think that. And so if you're trying to
use him in the vein of a traditional big man anchor,
where I know the nexts have tried some different stuff
with Mitchell Robinson, but like if you want him to
be Mitchell Robinson in like the abyss of a drop, No,
I don't think that's what Carl. I think he's at
his best when he can either like the Jokic stuff
is like if you have him zero in on an assignment.
I think that's always been easier for him. What I
think he's gotten a lot better at is if he's
allowed to play aggressively or if you have to have
him scram switch or pre switch. I think he's gotten
a lot better at navigating the floor in those instances
to get out of the mismatches that could wind up
hurting him. Or if you're letting him come up to
the level and be more aggressive, there are more things
that you can do with him. And the question would
be do the Knicks have the guys who can you know,
be the low man on that? And I would think
I think oj Anobi might be. I don't know. I
don't think he's overrated in that regard, but I think
he's someone who is capable of doing that. I think
that you could even like lean on McHale bridges in
that instance, we can even see Josh Hart do some
of it. And so if the Knicks are willing to
use Karl Anthony Towns or give him a level of
agency in terms of his aggression, I actually predicted when
we were doing our we were doing a hot or
not pod for every team. I said, I think the
Knicks are still going to have a top ten defense.
I think they can get to lineups with Their defense
is really good. But I think that Karl Anthony Towns
has come a long way. And I also think Tom
Thibodeau has come a long way. And yes he has
his pensions, his functional proclivities, but he's been willing to
adapt to the personnel around him more over the past
like two seasons, I would say, And so it wouldn't
shock me. I haven't seen a ton of like preseason basketball,
but it wouldn't shock me if we see the Knicks
play more aggressively, if Towns is playing outside of Tibbs's
comfort zone a lot on defense, and then it ends
up working because I think Towns has gotten I know
the Knicks don't have Rudy Gobert behind him, and that's something,
but if Mitchell Robinson's healthy, you could experiment with that too,
So I do believe that Karl Anthony Towns is close
to or to a league average defender than a detrimental
defender at that point might be the best way for
me to describe it. And to have a league average
defender at the center position, it's it's a big deal,
especially when you're looking at the other end of the spectrum,
which would be to have someone who is detrimental defensively
at the center position.
Speaker 3: I think if if that's the floor league average, uh,
maybe it's even the ceiling.
Speaker 2: Who knows, but.
Speaker 3: I passable, what I need. Passable is what I need
at this point.
Speaker 1: The ceiling is because he's in New York, that people
the defense is so good. It's happening when he's on
the court and people are clamoring for him to make
all defense, which will be egregious, But that that's the
ceiling because he's now in New York.
Speaker 2: Mm hmmm.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I would be on the front lines arguing said point.
Speaker 3: If the defense is that good, which will have nothing
to do with Ognob mckel bridge is playing next to him,
Do you have.
Speaker 1: Or would you have any hopes, like, do you think
Tis will wind up being more flexible with how he's
playing this team defensively when Karl Anthony Towns is going
to be your five, like has he just tims imbued
you with that sort of confidence in his flexibility over
the past couple of seasons.
Speaker 3: So he's already said that they're gonna switch more this year,
which they kind of have to with the roster makeup.
And this is this is something I've come to understand
about this man that is the next head coach that
all these years of frustrations that I had with the rigidity,
it's and look, I I'm always gonna have a special
place in my heart for Julius Randall. And I said
as much on social like what emotionally that that twenty
twenty one season was for me post pandemic is just
like life changing, and it's why I'll always I'll always
have like a hope that you know, he does well.
Speaker 2: Wherever he goes.
Speaker 3: But he's not the most flexible in how you can
use like you can really only use him as a four.
You really can't like he's not someone that can help you,
like when we were talking about Michael Bridges and how
he's pop him in and he can fit you know,
like there's there's there's a lot of fit concerns with
Julius Randall and who can play next to him. You know,
there's on nights and off nights with him, and you know,
I I think Tibbs knew that and was like, I
have like very few ways to make this work. And
last year when he went out, I think the Knicks
got worse. But you saw Tibbs try different ways with
Hartenstein in the short role, and Hartenstein is a hub
and you know, he tried the possession battle with Precious
Achua at the four and when then the spacing just
got to too crowded, he went to Deuce McBride and
these these three guard lineups, and you know, we saw
way more ball movements, possessions that were determined to end
in uh the Datsidi Evencenzo threes, and you know how
he was using all of his different guys on offense
were just so much more different. Now his roster has
changed again, and I think it translates to the other side,
to the defensive end, because he doesn't have a dominant
rim protector and the possession battle outside of Josh hart
isn't something that you're going to have to try and win,
you can actually maximize on the other end, trying to
you know, switch things up going. I don't think they'll
switch one through four, like I don't think. I don't
know how cat is switching. I don't know if I
want Chilean brunts and switching all that much. But specifically
with your your three wings with heart and anobium bridges,
like they've been called wingstop so far in the New
York area, And I love that nickname because do you I.
Speaker 1: Feel like we could be a little bit more creative.
Speaker 3: It depends how old you are, and it depends how
into hip hop you are. Shout out to Mensa, who like,
what was this New York? Why isn't the locks? The
shout out to Jadakiss, like why is that not the
nickname that we went with? And I just reminded Mensa,
it's twenty twenty four. They're kids that have no idea
what you're talking about. So I think the fact that
he has these very switchable wings, it wouldn't make sense
to just be like, all right, you guard him, you
guard him, you guard him, and that's your assignment for
the night. Now, now you have guys that can guard
multiple people at once, And I mean you could switch
two through five or two through four, and well you
switch to the Celtics switch one through four, and then
Porzingis plays that high drop. But then when Horford's in,
they switch like all five, you know, So I would
think the Knicks would just switch to through four and
then it's brunts in and kat like have their assignments
or their areas, which man it speaks to a zone
that like Tibou Tips has never played zone with the Knicks,
and I like, there there are flexible options that they
can go to that I think he's now going to
because his roster now gives him the opportunity to.
Speaker 1: I'm wondering if we could see more I kind of
mentioned it before, just more of like the necessarily maybe
it's pre switching or it's just do you rely on
Karl Anthony Town specifically to scramble out of those mismatches,
like kind of as they're happening in real time. I
think there's a lot of things they could do, and
I'm fair that I honestly the offense is going to
be Thermo nuclear, but I might just be more interested
in seeing kind of how the defense unfolds with their
top five guys on the court, because I think there's
a lot of different routes they could go. Do you
have any or not that you have any sense? But
let's say Mital Robinson gets healthy, knock on wood or
my desk that's right in front of me. Do you
think that the Knicks will try playing him and Karl
Anthony Towns together.
Speaker 3: Yes, and he should not, like as it's starting five,
I still think Josh Hart's the starter, but they're gonna
be lineups and matchups specifically where Mitch next to Kat
is a viable option. And like I spoke to the
Embeid assignment, I think the the the Milwaukee Bucks like
that's an assignment that I'd be like, I want as
many big bodies on Yiannis as possible. I don't think
it should ever be for more than like five to
ten minutes in a specific game, but it's it's gonna
be matchup dependents, which is why I'm not completely like
tossing miss Robinson by the curb. I just think that
they need to prioritize more durable players into their long
term plans and into their high ceiling plans. But I
I mean, look, I hope there's Precious to Chua lineups
this year with Karl Anthony Towns, which is so ironic.
Speaker 1: That doesn't there kind of have to be like what
would be like.
Speaker 3: Well, so Precious right now is your backup five, right,
and so if you wanted to your backup four is
either Josh Hart or Michael Bridges next to Campaign and
Landry Shammitt and Duce McBride, like you have options there.
But like if Precious, if you did want to go
to Cat and Precious on the court at the same time. Ironically,
all this frustration last year of Precious situe of playing
the four that drove everybody crazy because of the spacing,
now you're putting Precious on the floor with three other
shooters as long as Josh Hart's on the floor with Precious.
I just I hope those possessions when you go to
cleaning the Glass and you type in like and you
put Precious and Josh Hart together, I hope the possessions
are less than ten. Like I don't need I just
think they just don't exactly don't show up. I don't
even need data from cleaning the Glass at that point,
just showing me that they played like a handful of
possessions because it was garbage, sheime and that's it.
Speaker 1: So what do you make of kind of the state
of the secondary ball handling, the shock creation and specifically
are they planning. I don't think we're in agreement. I
know you've said this, like they don't view Deuce McBride
as that guy. They kind of treat him as like
this undersized wing. Basically, is it do we just default
to campaign it's kind of doing some of that secondary stuff.
Is it? Does Tyler Kolloch have like a real chance
of being a member of this team of a contender
as a rookie, which is I'm just gonna get out
in front of this. I'm not saying you are. I
get annoyed with fans who just constantly say, like, no,
we have this, like this rookie's ready. It so rarely
happens on a contender. It just when's the like we
saw Christian Brown and Derek Lively doing that, very rarely happens,
and so I like Tyler Kollik, I just the idea
of wrapping my head around, oh the knickser this reliant
on campaign in twenty twenty four or twenty five. But
although it turned to a rookie. It's just hard for
me to wrap my brain around and figure out which
direction they should.
Speaker 2: Or will go there. So I'll start here with Tyler Kollik.
Speaker 3: I do think he's gonna play a very important role
with the Knicks this year, and I don't.
Speaker 2: Think he's gonna start off as the backup one.
Speaker 3: I do think they're gonna go with the combination of
Campaign and Deuce as a secondary ball handler. I understand
Oganaobi is on this team. I understand that Jalen Brunson
has missed time in the past. He's never played eighty
two games.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I thought you were going like Og as
the initiator or something, you know.
Speaker 3: Like is where I'm going with this, Okay, I think
Duce McBride will be the first uh uh starter off
the bench, Like if if OG's out, all right, we're
going to Josh Hart slash mccalbridge is at the four,
and then Duce playing the two. I also think Tips
could go to Precious and it will make sense. Although
those are Josh Hart Precious to cheer lineups, which I'm
not a fan of h but I could I could
see it working, especially if Deuce closes games, I'll be
okay with it. I do think he's gonna find a
way into this rotation for a substantial portion of this year.
But to your point about him being a rookie, it's
different when it's when it's Derek Lively and it's like
you're a rim running center like Luca and Kyrie are
gonna do everything else you have, Like the game is
very simplified for you. If it's Christian Braun, You're playing
opposite Murray and Jokic and all these other veterans that
have made your job like just defend and and hit
threes like that, that's.
Speaker 2: Largely your job here.
Speaker 3: Like Tyler Kolek is gonna have to run the offense
as a point guard, and that's a lot to ask
of a rookie, is especially on.
Speaker 1: Excel, Like was it Donovan Mitchell in Utah? Was it that?
Like the Jazz were basically good.
Speaker 3: I'm going to tatum with with mine with that again,
was like half the team he was.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was like, oh, this this rookie is really great.
Speaker 3: And during the playoffs had some moments that year because
Kyrie was out, but like Terry Rose Year was running
that offense. They were running Jalen Brown through a lot
of that team, So that to your point, it's just
it's very rare, not even just for a rookie, but
a second round pick to then suddenly play a.
Speaker 1: Lottery pick. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, like Tatum was the third overall pick here, Like
I'm I'll be I'll be here for Tyler Koleik finding.
Speaker 2: A role in this team.
Speaker 3: Maybe the the thing I I am confident in is
he could play point guard in this league and looks
NBA ready. I just there there are some defensive concerns
that I have, uh that I think are gonna need
some some NBA his his NBA body will still have
to out and as a result.
Speaker 2: He'll he'll need a little more seasoning.
Speaker 3: But I do think he's gonna play really well this
year and play a lot because I don't remember people
don't play eighty two games anymore either, so just by necessity,
they'll they'll need him.
Speaker 1: Which and I think that could be valuable. Like I'm not,
I don't know if he'll be great right out the game,
but to have maybe find out that he's like it worked,
it could work.
Speaker 2: But so I'll add one thing, I'll add one thing.
I do think.
Speaker 3: I do think getting him in the second round probably
the guy probably should have been like a late first
and just fell to the second round. And what he
was in summer league, what the Knicks evaluate him as.
I do think that did contribute, not like the final
straw of why they made the cat trade, but I
do think they consider him like an option to go
to that made them more comfortable that their their death
concerns post trade wouldn't be as drastic.
Speaker 1: I actually took it as another vote of confidence induce
McBride a little bit.
Speaker 2: Oh that too, that too, But it does show.
Speaker 1: But it does show. It shows more degrees of evolution
from Tibbs to where even if this isn't his idea,
that that's that the front office is trusting that he
would go like Tims doesn't play rookies. Was just like
the thing like remember how Jimmy Butler started out in Chicago,
un it was clear when he was ready. I didn't
want to ask you about Deuce. What are you sort
of looking to see? Because he's now he continues to
move up the pecking orders. They make these consolidation trades.
What are you like the theory of duce McBride is
he plays his us off on defense, he will hit
threes and can do like some kind of attacking in
open space. Is there more there to explore for him?
What are you just monitoring most closely as Deuce heads
into this.
Speaker 2: Year, So there's a sixth Man of the Year conversation.
Speaker 3: As far as I'm concerned with duce McBride, now, who
knows if he especially if he's the starter, if that
plays in.
Speaker 1: That, do you think that's a real I didn't even
have that pencil in as the possibility. You think there's
a chance that he's so right.
Speaker 2: Now depends what book you look at.
Speaker 3: Josh Hart still lists it as the Knicks representative on
odds for sixty Man of the Year, and I'm sure
the are still adjusting post cat trade and Deu just
doesn't have odds yet, so there's no again, these are
these are shout out to Vegas. They're still adjusting to
the moves the Knicks make. But I'm on the day
of the trade, I was like, so where do they
go with the starting five? And if you're saying five out,
Josh Hart's not a shooter. So I recognized who has
proven himself to be not just a shooter, but a
guy that can be successful next to Jalen Brunson and
an impactful starter, which he was last year when they
went to those lineups. I'll be it into a ton
of winning because they were very small during that time.
Speaker 2: But you know, I don't look at him as the.
Speaker 3: Backup point guard, but I think he can run your
second unit really well.
Speaker 2: And it's why, like I have.
Speaker 3: No issue with Josh Hart starting whatsoever, and I actually
think it might be beneficial to really open things up
produce with Pride if you insert him in for Josh
Hart as one of the subs, have him play the
with the five out lineup. Then he's running the second
unit with Campaign and with Shammitt. And you know, whether
it's Bridges or anonob or whoever you play with the
second unit next to next to Precious, Like you just
that that's a decent second unit where he's probably the
best offensive player on it.
Speaker 2: So I think there's there's a.
Speaker 3: World where we're like, oh, just McBride is like probably
should be considered like top five for six Man of
the Year at the end of the season. And it's again,
it's it's just what he's done. He's just slowly gotten better,
and this is the next ceiling for him to get to.
Speaker 1: I do wonder if maybe he won't be playing in
lineups and have the same benefits of the spacing. But
if you're ever gonna insert him into lineups with like
let's say Jalen Brunts is off the court, but Towns
is on the court, like what he could do in
the pick and roll within that spacing, I'd be very
intrigued to see. We just didn't see a ton of it,
like he ran some of them last year. But like
the Knicks, everyone's seen that crumpled jumper graphic by now.
It's like the Knicks just didn't have anyone up front
in terms of a big man that was pulling defenses
out of the paint, like away from the basket.
Speaker 3: Well, so the back door cutting he would do with
Hertenstein too, was like a pet play that they ran
a ton where if that's why I'm curious if they
take advantage of Cat's passing where you run like those
blind pig actions where you know, you throw it to
a cat in the high post and then Deuce is
cutting back door, like you you have options if you
want to use him more as a cutter, But I'm
with you. The pick and roll just was not necessarily
featured as much because of the limitations of the Knicks
centers in the past.
Speaker 1: You know, when you sort of look at this team,
would you still expect that there's unfinished business when it
comes to making trades, probably in the middle of the season,
And what type of trade? I'm talking about deepening the rotation,
not trying to get another big name in it, right.
Speaker 3: Right, I was like, trade like any other trade they've
made four in the last calendar year.
Speaker 1: Well, it comes down to, like, I guess, how confident
are you that they do need to deepen flesh out
this rotation? And what would you what type of trade
would you like? I guess I'll throw it to you
like this, is it more likely that they kind of
make a move like that's more marginal where it's oh,
it's chee, a salary is going out that's six million dollars,
or could you see them doing something like well, can
we like turn Mitchell Robinson's salary slot into two player salary?
So it's like, just what are you We haven't seen
the games played yet, but I guess it speaks to
what level concern would you have for the overall depth
of a right you could talk yourself into like they're
seven or if you want to say eight trustworthy guys
on this team, you also have like at least two
of them one invariably miss time, and you're gonna wonder,
in the back of your mind, are these other guys
who's gonna play so many minutes that they're due for
something to happen? So just where are you? Kind of
out on that entire topic.
Speaker 3: So this is a cop out, but I think I
just gonna have to see it, Like you're you're gonna
have to get like thirty thirty, twenty to thirty games
in and get a sample size of like, oh, we
have seven guys, we weak guys. We probably need one more. Well,
we know the position will scour the market and then
the assess. I think the reason Precious was signed for
the number he was is, to your point, like a
very tradable salary. I think Mitch Robinson, the salary he
was signed to three years ago, very tradable salary, descending
contract that's about to have about to become an expiring
contract at the end of the year.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 3: That's that This is where my my trust and my
faith in leon Rose and more specifically brock Galer. If
there's a trade to be made, they will find a
way to do it. They have this this Washington pick
that I don't think is ever going to convey, but
it's it basically amounts to second round picks they have,
So Macer's been on this.
Speaker 2: They do.
Speaker 3: They did leave out one swap of the mckal bridges trade,
and like that's.
Speaker 2: Their last actual asset.
Speaker 3: Is this one swap that we have no idea if
it's ever going to convey or not, because the knicks
might be really good for a long time. But I
think it's twenty twenty nine or it's twenty it's twenty thirty.
It's a twenty thirty swap. So like they have that asset,
the Washington as set, and then the contracts that you're
talking about, and if there's a bench piece that they
want to go to and look this the sticks taste
it a little bit too. But like injuries happen, Like
who knows what this roster looks like in January. I
think there are some significant injuries that you know, you
have the white flag for but if there's a fringe
injury that just affects your depth, then it could realy
like say Douce gets hurt and you're like, oh, we
do actually need like a backup guard or a backup
wing that can shoot. And that's that's I think the
direction that they would potentially go. But gone are the
days of like Derreck Rose is our backup and we're
hoping he and his their ability plays a large part
in this season.
Speaker 2: You know, are you.
Speaker 1: Ready to enter the cookie cutter lightning round portion of
the pot? Let's do it without having seen the games?
What do you consider this roster single biggest need right now?
Speaker 2: A backup point guard?
Speaker 1: So you're saying Tyler Koloks a busts is what.
Speaker 2: A terrible terrible player? Yes?
Speaker 3: I think he stinks and then to waste the draft pick, No,
just like a veteran backup point guard.
Speaker 1: Is there anything which is kind of hard to imagine
anything about this team flying under the raidar at the moment?
Is there anything flying under the radar that we haven't
talked about that you think deserves more shine when you're
looking at this Knicks roster this season, the whole shebang.
Speaker 2: I actually think we covered all of it.
Speaker 3: It's especially with the last pod factored in. The Knicks
made the two biggest trades in the NBA in the
span of three months, and it completely shook up their
roster while also keeping their core and their culture intact.
So as far as I'm concerned, they're They're interesting and
a fascinating team to pay attention to, while also I
think being a very good one.
Speaker 1: Nothing on Jericho Simms there like what type of opportunity
he's gonna have.
Speaker 3: His opportunity will be injury dictated, So hopefully they get
enough help from all of their centers ahead of Sims
in the rotation that I don't have to turn to
him as much.
Speaker 1: Well, this this question is actually interesting because there are
I always ask what's the top ten rotation look like?
At full strength? We have the start on Pensley and
Josh Hard is the starter just right now, I view
that as five locks. Deuce McBride is a sixth lock,
precious that she was a seventh lock after that with
Mitchell Robinson being healthy, so we're saying full strength, that's
an eighth flock. It feels like things can get pretty
like experimental and exploratory from there.
Speaker 2: So you need be Nils ten like you're holding me
to ten, I'm.
Speaker 1: Holding I'm holding you to There's something you can if
you want to cop out, you can. It happens all
the time. But you have to identify the ten most
played players on this team if they're at full strength.
Speaker 2: So you said you said Deuce, you said Precious at
full strength. I was Mitch Mitch.
Speaker 3: Although I wonder if it's Deucer Deuce or not Duce
Precious or Mitch, like, would he actually go to Precious
and Mitch on the second unit together?
Speaker 2: How does the space meet there?
Speaker 1: Yes, should questionable?
Speaker 2: Well, that's a good point.
Speaker 1: I do wonder though, if like the ability, if you're
gonna play Mitchell Robinson and Towns together at all, does
that kind of then open the opportunity for like, oh,
we can squeeze Prescious in here. But that's I had
not given that consideration that Precious could get squeezed out
of the rotation with a healthy Mitchell Robinson.
Speaker 3: When the playoffs happened and Mitch came back, Precious set well.
Speaker 1: I mean, like the Knicks playing ten players in the
playoffs is like but five left and they're gonna play
in the playoffs.
Speaker 3: So Mitch came back with seven games left and Precious
set like that. That's what I'll add then, like it
was one or the other. So tips did go. The
part of the some dancing around is I think the
next we're going to a nine man rotation, because it's
been that way for three years, you know, So I don't.
I can give you ten names, and I think Mitch
and Precious are somewhat your ninth and tenth guys, because
I think if one is healthy, the other's not playing,
and then you go sham it campaign uh and Deuce
as your other three, and then Coolicks you're eleventh man.
Now I'm just opening the door for Tyler Kollik in
campaign to be interchangeable, or maybe even Shammitt to be interchangeable.
I think there's a world where you uh camp campaign
shows signs of aging and Tyler Kollak just flat out
plays better to the point where they they might have
actually found their backup point guard. And perfectly he's a
lefty playing under Jalen Brunson. So I think those are
your elevens. Yeah, even I thought I was going to
short change you, and I gave you an extra one.
Speaker 1: I forgot Landry Shammitt was on this team for a minute.
I was so in on him for the first two
years of his career. I mean, if they want three
point volume and he's making shots, he could end up
being a sneaky important part of this team.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Who knew that that was going to be such an
important move? Then they just like.
Speaker 1: Random these times.
Speaker 2: There was a training campaign by I was like, oh,
this is interesting.
Speaker 1: That's that's the card that tipped everything in the way
of this. We don't even turns out we have Landry Shammitt.
Speaker 2: There you go. Many people are saying that, yeah, what.
Speaker 1: Do you see this will be? I'm sure it'll be
matchup dependent to some extent or maybe not. But if
you were to guess what winds up being their most
used crunch time lineup, is it just what we're projecting
the starters to be or could you see some kind
of fuzzing and fiddling in one of those spots.
Speaker 3: The starting five, Like like you said, they'll be matchup
to the matchup dependent games where they might go to
a douche over Josh Hart or precious over Josh Hart.
I actually can't see it. Moment, but not Mitch Obbson
over Josh Hart. I mean, but I think the way
he's used Josh Hart in the past, there's just like
very few instances I think where Josh Hart is on
the in the closing lineup. So there's your four staples
and then Josh Hart, which honestly probably should be considered
a staple at this point.
Speaker 1: That would be my It would if we went back
and looked at the minutes, like who played the most
in crunch time and barring injury, I would just expect
it to be that five by Lan.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, it just he's gotten some of the biggest
rebounds in the franchise's history in the last couple of years,
not as well as well has made some of the
biggest shots.
Speaker 2: So and you don't stand it.
Speaker 1: He's also just like maybe as an well not maybe
like Deuce is an on ball defense, I've going okay, sure,
but Josh Hart is bigger and he plays like more
like a big So it's just like from a defensive perspective,
if you're worried about Towns, having Josh Hart Og and
mchil Bridges on the court.
Speaker 3: Is kind of a big deal, which again preseason who
cares and I was mostly watching the Mets, but from
all accounts, last night against the Wizards, the wingstop effect
was fully realized, and seeing what those three can do
together on the court, together with Josh Hart and Anenobium
Bridges has a chance to be really special this year.
Speaker 1: Shout out to Matt Maderno believe in Wizards, who listened
to our record projections for the Wizards. I had them
at thirteen and he was like, that might be a
little much.
Speaker 2: Can I ask you a question, Wizards of Brooklyn, who
has more wins this year?
Speaker 1: I think I think Brooklyn will I do. I know
that they have like that smaller finite window, but their
player I just feel like with Cam Johnson and Dorian
Finney Smith, Dennis Shruder being there, Nicholas Claxton, I think
they're gonna pick up probably more early season wins than Washington.
But I also kind of think that Brooklyn's probably more
likely to if they got to start making moves early,
like before trade season or just like, they'd be more
likely to. So I had them at fifteen and Washington
at thirteen, so it was close.
Speaker 3: Okay, So they'll be so Washington now takes the Detroit
position and Brooklyn Washington.
Speaker 1: Might have the worst defense of all time. It's just
like where I'm kind of at. And so that's why
I think they'll ultimately lose more. Both of these teams
were committed. I'm not not questioning their commitment to losing.
Speaker 3: So John and I did our our over unders. This
is before the cat trade, but he actually took the
Brooklyn over this year.
Speaker 1: He has them and a half.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he took the over and I went so far
the other way that on the most recent pod that
we did where we did our projections on Patreon for
how the East standings would line up, and he has
Washington in last, Brooklyn fourteenth, and I'm so confident Brooklyn
will be fifteenth. We have a deal this year. Anytime
Brooklyn wins a game, I'm gonna buy him a drink.
Anytime he has a drink on me. Anytime Brooklyn wins
a game, I think I'm gonna buy him like nine
drinks this year. I think they're gonna be so bad.
Speaker 1: That's an interesting bet. I'm gonna you're gonna have to
keep them well. I'll know how it's going by looking
at the standings. But yeah, we'll see how many drinks
Jonathan McRae has on one Andrew Claudio.
Speaker 3: Look, if there's a world where I'm buying him like
twenty five drinks, they will be well earned because I'm
their their ability to be asked is going to be
fascinating when it comes to like we have this second
life where you have control over our draft pick on
a year that there's a generational talent at the top
of the draft.
Speaker 1: I will say, if they win over twenty games, it's
almost a disaster for like what was I you could
see yeah bottom for at that point, but I'm just
it's a disaster if they win more than twenty years.
Speaker 2: And what's this? Who's a new coach? Should win? Coach?
Speaker 1: Jordy Fernandez?
Speaker 3: Yea, JORDI should win coach of the Year because he
got that team to win like twenty four.
Speaker 1: We should be fired for conduct detrimental to the team's future.
How about both?
Speaker 3: He went to the Dwayne Casey Coach of the Year
award when you're not the coach of the team anymore.
Speaker 1: Back to the Knicks, is there a weirdo offbeat lineup
that you would like to see this team try?
Speaker 2: Ooh, the weirdo lineup.
Speaker 1: You've been doing this for like three or four years now,
you can't like a guard.
Speaker 3: It used to be I wanted to see them go
to the death lineup that I was comparing to the
Warriors lineup, And now their lineups are so very specific
to Like, there's no three guard lineup that I'm interested in,
like with bruntson and Deuce and another guard. There's no
like super big lineup with Mitch and like a Mitch
Precious and Cat. You know, like there's none of that.
It'd be funny. Yeah, there isn't all defense lineup. I
think they could potentially go to with Duce playing point
and with Cat out you go to Mitch that I
just want to see if a team can score on
them when they've got Mitch, Deuce and then Josh Hart
and anenobian Bridges. I don't want to see it for
more than like three minutes because I think the score
would be like two nothing in those three minutes. But
I think that could be a very really a really
good defensive stretch that you could go to. But that's
the fascinating part about this thing they've created is their
most fascinating quirky lineup is now starting five.
Speaker 2: As far as I'm concerned, I kind.
Speaker 1: Of want to see them like, let's yank hert out
of there, but we'll put it in Tyler Kollick. And
if you really wanted to get wacky, like let's pull Towns,
make o g the five and we'll we'll have Deuce
in there. But I would kind of like to see.
Speaker 2: Really small Oh so Duce is the three in that situation.
Speaker 1: You could do it. I'd be more concerned about what's
gonna happen on the interior that I'm gonna be concerned
about on the perimeter. And that got it the idea
of pull you want to go five out? I guess
like Deuce pulling Duce for Josh Hart is kind of
like let's meet in the middle. It's like kind of
as okay, now you're really five out. But he did
get a little smaller as part of the process.
Speaker 2: So you remember when TODJ.
Speaker 3: Gibson played for the Knicks last year and he told
the story about he was on his couch watching the
Sopranos and Tims called him and was like you in shape,
and like Taj was on the team by the next
day because Mitche had just gotten hurt and the Knicks
were like hurting for a backup, backup five because they
hadn't made the trade yet precious and Jericho Simms was
Jericho Simms so and he they had this game in
Brooklyn where Taj was like in shape but not like
ready to play thirty NBA minutes of shape. And there's
this look that Toaj Gibson had waiting at the free
throw line, where he's gasping for air. And I say
all of this because that's what Ogan Andobi and Michel
Bridges will look like if they have to share the
floor with Tyler Kohlik and Jalen Brunson and they're stuck
with being both the best wings and having to guard
the perimeter and card the rim and card everything else.
If they're they're playing around traffic cones.
Speaker 1: You know, the over under for this team is fifty
four and a half g Mac, how many games are
they winning.
Speaker 3: I'm taking the over, and I think they're gonna be
the one seed, so I'm taking I'll say fifty eight.
Speaker 1: Okay, wow, I did go under, and I think I
had them at fifty three. I'm cacking in is it
gonna take time for this to co lace. But I'm
just they're shallower. Ogo we always miss his time. I
don't know what happens to the defense if Ogano we
miss his time, and so it's fair, I still think.
But this is my next question on top of that,
would be, are there any matchups that, well, what do you?
I think we're universally ving they are better match up
for the Celtics now following this town trade. Correct? Absolutely, yes,
Are there any other matchups in the East that either
concern you or just intrigue you from the perspective of
a best of seven series?
Speaker 2: Milwaukee?
Speaker 3: I just have a lot of respect for Milwaukee, and
I think Milwaukee's gonna be a two sheet this year.
Speaker 2: So I think there's Do you just think Boston's just suck? Yes?
I hate Boston.
Speaker 3: No, they they we need to remember like Denver was
the one seed a year ago and then dropped the three. Also,
I'm not saying that they're gonna be like ten games
worse than the Knicks. I'm just saying at the end
of a long season, one where the majority of the
Celtics went over and played like into June and then
into July and August because of the Olympics.
Speaker 1: I get.
Speaker 2: I understand travel is a thing. Okay, workouts a thing.
Speaker 3: I understand Jason Tatum didn't exactly play in the Olympics,
but like Drew Holly and Derek White also went over there,
and Jalen bruns It and Josh Hart spoke to like
they were exhausted going into last season because they didn't
have an offseason. So you add in porzingis not showing
up until January, and just the fact that I think
the top of the East got better. I don't think
there's gonna be a cake walk with the Celtics were
taking three months off because they don't have any competition
for the one seed anymore. I think they're gonna win
fifty five games fifty four games the Celtics, and I
think Milwaukee adding more depth as well as I just
think organizational competence and stability that they're not making a
blockbuster trade right before the season starts. That requires more
of a growing period or I get to know you period,
especially for an older player like Dame Uh. Maybe not
firing your coach midway through the season also helps.
Speaker 1: Doc Rivers is their coach, so I won't really any this, but.
Speaker 2: Doc Rivers, Like the question is with Doc or the postseason.
Speaker 3: I that's a that's a guy, that's like a walking
fifty five wins.
Speaker 1: You know, everything is just their health there. If you
have those four guys Plust, Gary Tron on the court,
they're gonna They're gonna roll.
Speaker 2: So I'm projecting ceiling.
Speaker 3: It is hard to make the case for the Bucks
as like the two seed and and all that I'm
projecting when I go to ESPN's depth chart and everybody
has a red two red letters next to their name.
Everybody's got something like day to day out like if
there's an O or an I R or a D
D or okay, so or it's like watching my fantasy
lineup for football every week, all right, so everybody's hurt.
Speaker 2: Got it?
Speaker 1: So I the Celtics at fifty seven wins and being
first in the East. But I think to your point,
I did have the knick second they're fifty three, or
maybe did I have him? I had him at fifty four.
I went under, but it was a fifty four. They
will more than I would assume, more than Philly, more
than Boston, more than Milwaukee. They're gonna be the team
that cares about the regular season. More of that group
Cleveland could be up for debate. And I think some
people are sleeping on them. This team is so I've
used the word a million times. It is they continue
to get more fascinating. It's just been one move after another.
Is there anything any one I didn't ask you about,
mister Claudio, that you think needs to be touched upon
before I let uskadaddo?
Speaker 3: Is this a make it break year for Tom Thibodeau?
Since I know we like to fire him on this show.
Speaker 1: Well, I get him to the point where that's the
only thing they could change.
Speaker 3: I agree, by the way, I do think that this
is a make it a break a year for Tom Tibbdeau.
They lose in the second round, it's Tim like he's
the thing they'll change, and then they'll they'll go get
like an offensive minded head coach. Maybe go get Dan Hurley.
That's what we've heard is that like Dan Hurley. The
reason he turned down the Lakers job is because the
next job might become available in the next couple of years.
Speaker 2: But look, I liked Tives.
Speaker 3: I think he's one of the biggest, one of the
best coaches in the franchise's history. They're at the point
where if you don't get to where you need to go,
you have very few options on how to potentially get
there the next time. So I think this is a
mandatory Conference Finals run for them, and if not, I
think he's the first head that a role.
Speaker 1: I think that as soon as they made the mchal
Bridges trade, I think that was the case.
Speaker 3: So you know what's funny, I wasn't there with the
Bridges trade. The Cat trade crystallized it for me.
Speaker 2: You had the Julius Randall piece. If you wanted to
move it, I.
Speaker 1: Guess my whole thing is just Julius Randall's value is
very clearly divisive around the league, and you gave up all,
basically all of your draft equity to mchal Bridges trade.
So you were kind of at that point where, Okay,
they proved they had another move up their sleeve, but
it was for someone who's starting this supermax extension that
very few teams are probably willing to pay, and it
doesn't happen without like if Jaln Brunson doesn't sign his extension,
or the Knick's gonna go out and trade for Karl
Anthony Towns and then potentially have to deal with maybe
I'm saying maybe this is not a team that has
cheaped out a ton so, but I think it's once
the mccaount once you make that level of draft equity trade,
like the coach is like just immediately on the hot seat.
Speaker 3: If they lost in the first round with Bridges and
like Jalen hadn't signed his extension and it was with Julius,
then then I agree with you. I think him signing
the extension to then make the Cat trade, it was like, oh,
now it's the rosters that they've given you a championship
Calber roster. Now it's up for you to win the
championship or at least finished top four, and you could
look at it as a success. Give you give Dolan
three rounds of home games and and he's not going
to say he's not going to say this was a
failed season.
Speaker 1: G Mac, you've already stayed five minutes past what you
said you were going to. Or you're able just to
tell our listeners where they can find you and all
the fantastic stuff that you do.
Speaker 3: All the things so you could find Nick's Film school
anywhere podcasts and YouTube channels are available, you find Game
Theory with Sam Vassini. Wherever podcasts and YouTube channels are available,
you can find Mets Therapy if you want to follow
my musings on the New York Mets. Mets Therapy ac
on All Socials. There's a podcast version that I haven't
updated because I've gotten some more short form immediate reactions
from my phone. But if you're into that, you can
follow all my Mets and baseball thoughts there and follow
me on All Socials that Andrew J. Claudio underscore. I
am excited for this basketball season, even though it's not
going to start until baseball season's over for me.
Speaker 1: Well, thank you again for so much of your time.
Congrats once more on the Mets being to where they
are and look should go follow Mets there just for
the reaction videos from him, like the reactions to him
watching the game. I'm not talking about the analysis and
the feelings afterwards. I like the visuals of you going
through it.
Speaker 3: So shout out to missus Claudia, who started a trend
of and we missed the second round version of this,
but the last day of the regular season where the
Mets were playing a game against the Braves, uh the
But she came home from work and I was pacing,
like the whole living room, just pacing.
Speaker 2: She's like what is this and I'm like, they're they're
the night dinning words things.
Speaker 3: And then she just turned her phone on and recorded
the ending and I was like, oh, this is like
a nice moment. And so she did the same thing
for uh the game last night. So yeah, you can
follow Mets Therapy and you'll you'll see all all the
reactions to this improbable, magical Mets run.
Speaker 1: Thank you once again, g Mac, And as you know
by now, I'll be pastoring you yet in the future.
Speaker 3: Of course, because of course is going to make another
blockbook to trade that shakes up our weekend.
Speaker 2: That's Abzac, who absolutely going.
Speaker 1: To have him in.
Speaker 2: Anytime I try to be planning, the Knicks are like
fuck you.
Speaker 3: So there you go.