Speaker 1: Golf Smarter number four hundred and twenty seven.
Speaker 2: Welcome to Golf Smarter Mulligans, your second chance to gain
insight and advice from the best instructors featured on the
Golf Smarter podcast. Great Golf Instruction Never gets Old. Our
interview library features hundreds of hours of game improvement conversations
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Speaker 3: There's the external confidence and that internal confidence. External confidence
isn't long lasting. External confidence is based on how long
you're playing, and most people think that confidence is a
result of how well you just played the lost shot,
or played the lost hole, or played the lost round,
when really we want to think about confidence being something
that you can generate within, which then affects your play.
If you're thinking about confidence as being you have to
be playing well to build confidence, then you put more
pressure on your game and you don't feel like you're
as good a player after hitting a couple of bad shots.
Whereas confidence can be built from the inside out if
you can stop to imagining yourself as a good player
and convincing yourself that you're a good player, and talking
to yourself in the like way running out on the
golf course, you can build confidence that is much more
long lasting and enduring.
Speaker 1: Golf state of Mind Part two in our conversation with
David Mackenzie. This is Golf Smarter. Thank you again for
joining us, for sticking around for the rest of this
conversation because I have so many more questions that I
wanted to talk about with you on golf state of Mind. Right, yeah,
thank you were And where are you based? If somebody
wants to start taking lessons from you? How do you
how does that work?
Speaker 3: I'm in Washington, BC, so I do give you face
to face lessons in the in the DC metropolitan area
Northern Virginia, Ireland. But I do a lot of lessons
on Skype. It's become quite it's quite popular, and uh,
you know it works. You know, we can fit lessons
around people's schedules, and you know, we've got to just
switch on your computer and I use a couple of programs.
One of them is e Golf Plan and that players
are able to record stats after their round. So I
go in and I can check, you know, exactly how
how someone's you know that how their performance was during rounds,
and then we you know, a weekly on a weekly basis.
We meet and we talked about the experience of the round,
and we also refer to these these stats for areas
of improvement.
Speaker 1: Okay, all right. One of the things you said towards
the end of our last part of the conversation was
you talked about practicing and going to the range, but
you were referring to practicing the mental game, not just
working on your swing mechanics. Is that right?
Speaker 3: Yeah, yes, I'm not. I'm not discounting swing coaches and
the need for swing coaching, you know. I think that
that's you know, that is an element of the game
that you know, people that players need to work on.
But for me, the more you can you can synchronize
your body and your mind through visualization, through feel and
ingraining ingraining those those feelings and is becoming aware of
your body. So I wouldn't you know, for example, uh,
an example of a bad session, bad practice session for
me would be to stand on the driving range one target,
a bucket of balls, you know, perhaps a couple of clubs,
and just hitting hitting straight to that same target. That's
not to me, that's not affective practice. Why effective? Because
that's nothing like you would be there's nothing like it
would be on the golf course. On the golf course,
you're changing shots all the time, and you're you're having
to play different kinds of shots. So my idea for
a fulfilling, an effective practice session on the driving range
would be to hit hit no more than three balls
with the same club. I'd be picking different targets. I'd
be trying to hit different trajectories, moving the ball around
in my stan saying different trajectories I would do. I
would try to hit as many different kinds of shots
as I could. I would even try to hit you
a slice, a hook, a draw. You know, I've got
a practice drill on the website called the nine Shots
where you know, you're playing a fade and a draw
and a straight shot with three different trajectories, and so
you end up with with nine shots. So it's that variety.
Otherwise you just get into range with them. I think
it's very very easy to think that you've mastered the
game on the driving range, and that's why a lot
of golfers say, you know, I wish I could take
my diving range game to the golf course. And there's
so many things that are wrong with what they're doing
on the driving range that you know they wouldn't want
to take that game to the golf course.
Speaker 1: No, we don't, you know. But like if you go
to the driving range and you'll see, let's just say
there's twenty five people out there, and you just kind
of stand back and watch for a while, I can
almost that ninety nine percent of those guys are hitting
one club over and over and over again. Why is
it that that just seems the way you're supposed to
do it? And what's really interesting, especially if you're warming
up for a round. I'm guilty of this myself, going Okay,
that was a shot I wanted. I don't want to
do that again. I mean, you just as soon as
you get one that you like, it's like, okay, I
can move on now.
Speaker 3: Yeah, if I'm under saying the question, I.
Speaker 1: Don't even know if I asked one? Did I long
pause and like, did I ask him anything?
Speaker 3: Sorry? No, I think I know, I know. You know, yeah,
they you hit one club, you know, one shot one club,
and you know, because you're working on a swing drill,
you know, you're trying to ingrain that that swing into
your into your your muscle memory and that's that's how
a lot of golfers spent a lot of the time.
And it's just, you know, to me, it's not effective.
And I've been there, and you know I used to
throw eight dollars down for a bucket of balls, and
bucket ball off the bucket of balls, and uh and
and and make those same mistakes over and over again.
Now I practice in a completely different way. It's it's
about imagining, imagining holes. It's about trying to create pressure
on myself playing games. I think that games should be
a big part of practice, and I actually have a
book on practice drills which is designed for that purpose,
to to to create score even on the driving range.
You can play games against yourself to try and create
the same thin kind of pressure. Not get into that
that habit of just you know, you hit one ball.
Oh I didn't like that shot. Oh hit you know,
I've got another one here, you know, to pull it
out of the basket. It's about every shot you know
should have, should have a purpose and a consequence.
Speaker 1: Give me an example of what you mean by these
games that you play while you're on the range.
Speaker 3: So you would be I would be practicing, I would
be visualizing holes in my mind, and so you could,
you know, essentially play holes and you know imagine. I mean,
I Ben Hogan used to talk about this, like playing
holes in his mind. So you can actually play, you
play against yourself on the driving range and imagine that
you're in a certain situation, Imagine that you're on the
of course, you know, try to you know, I heard
heard about Gray and McDowell like running on the spot,
like on the on the driving range to try and
get his heart ate up. Not that I can imagine
many listeners are gonna want to do that on a
pack driving range. But the the point is that you
know he's trying to he's trying to simulate that feeling
on the golf course, being under pressure, feeling that, yeah, exactly.
And so you know, it's it's that most of most
authors just practice thinking that you know, there's just there's
always that next ball, and that's not the mentality that
we're trying to practice. Because I think, you know, practicing
practicing an opportunity to practice your mental game just as
just as it is your your your physical game. And
I think that bank gets that gets missed. But yeah,
so I've got you know, I've got a number of
different games in my my practice for this book, where
you know you're you're playing games and get and getting schools,
so every shot has a meaning on you.
Speaker 1: On your website, I was noticing that you have in
your mental Game section one of the lessons that you
have here is how to play non conscious golf. And
how is that different than unconscious golf. I just answered
my own question in my head unconscious Golf.
Speaker 3: That I didn't write that article a I called calling Chromac,
who's a contributor to Golf State of Mind, wrote that article.
And I'm still conscious, but is subconscious? So I might
not be able to be able to answer that as
well as I would like it this at this time.
Speaker 1: But that's fair.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's ahead, Yeah, he's uh yeah. I mean, for me,
the subconscious your your swing is made with your subconscious mind.
And so those are just those are just important things
to think about, like the division, the division of what
your mind, what what these different parts of your mind plays,
or the roles of the different parts of your mind
play in a game of golf. You know, the conscious mind,
the logical analytical brain, is going to be at work
only during the pre shot routine. So that's you know,
that's deciding on which the right shot to play, that's
calculating you know, the yardage. That's you know, making sure
that you're going through that sequence of steps throughout your routine,
keeping you you're focused on the on the right things
throughout your routine. But when you're ready to go, and
you you know, you might have some some some confidence
triggers and some go triggers in your as a part
of your routine, as soon as you're ready to go,
that's in the conscious mind shuts off completely. And whether
it's non conscious or subconscious, it's you know, there's there's
there's absolutely nothing, but there's you know, a thoughtless swing,
I thought free, I should say thought free swing. Yeah,
being executed.
Speaker 1: Actually, Colin Cromac was on the Golf Smarter podcast back
in two thousand and eight, so and we all right, yeah, yeah,
and we talked to him about target oriented golf, which
which was an epiphany for me. I love talking about
target golf.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean that's you know, that's one of one
of the fundamentals of his program. But I mean, for me,
the precise I mean, I tell the players that I
work with you know, where is your target? Where's your target?
Always comes down to where is your target? And you
know a lot of the average players that I speak
to just aiming center of fairway, center of green. They
don't even have like a precise target. And it's amazing,
how I mean, especially for the short game, you know,
just having like spots that you're aiming at and just
you become connected with the target, connected with the shot,
and that takes away, you know, any focus on on
your swing, which is a negative, which is negatively going
to impact you your play. It's you know, it's always
you're always thinking about the shot and the target, and
you're seeing that in your mind's eye right up until
you know you take you take the club back. And
so you know, I can't emphasize enough how you know,
target shot shape, visualizing becoming connected with that particular shot
you know is going to help. And I know that
a lot of players, you know, when they're making their
practice swings, they're just you know, they're working on a
drill or they're trying to correct, you know, what they
thought that problem was in the swing on their on
their last shot, instead of using that time to really
become connected with that shot that they're about to play
for seeing the target, seeing the shot shape, and really
uh really becoming connected with it. You know.
Speaker 1: I would think that if people had a better sense,
if golfers had a better sense of strategy or what
they like to call course management, I think that everybody
out out on the fairways and at the tea box
would would be better golfers. They would cut down some strokes.
But getting onto the putting green, to me, is where
the mental game seems to have the most powerful impact.
You recently wrote a piece, uh called you called the
five most common putting mistakes. Can we talk about that?
Speaker 3: Yeah? I can, and have that article in front of me,
but yeah.
Speaker 1: I'll try command I wrote it. You know what it is.
You wrote it. You know what it is.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Well, the I mean the closer you get to
the to the whole, you know, the closer you get
to your score. So that's that's where we feel pressure.
I mean, it's the you know, it's the easiest, the
easiest shot to play. I mean that, you know, it's
easier than than any other shot that you're facing on
the golf course. But yeah, it's where it's where we
make the most. It seems like it's where we make
make the most mistakes and.
Speaker 1: Feel the most pressure. I would think, yeah, it's.
Speaker 3: Where we feel the most pressure, and it's where we
need to have, you know, where we need to have
a lot of discipline, where we need to make sure
that the process is good, make sure that breathing is good,
and you know, not not thinking, not thinking about the
consequences of you know, of the part and the score
and what it might do for you. And these are
things that you know, with with the right techniques, the
right you know, knowing how to switch off and not
think about think about score and focusing on process because
process is just one of those things that that you know,
you can rely on in any situations that's always going
to help you calm down. And you've got a good
putting process, that's that's that's really going to help you,
and that's that's what you know. Jack Nicholas said that
he never missed a putt in his mind, and you know,
and like the you know, I think that's a good
a good way to think about it, because if you
know that you've gone through your process, you've you know,
you've visualized, you've you've felt the part, you've seen it,
you've done everything you can you possibly can, you've read
given the part a good read, and you've gone through
your process. That's all you can do. The rest is
out of your control. And something another. I think that
another thing that's important in the mental gain is self
talk and phrases that you can you can you can
include in your game. So when you're standing over you
know ten to fifteen foot part, say to ask yourself
a question, is this possible? And by asking yourself that question,
and you know your response should be yeah, it is possible,
instead of you know, I've got to manke this. You
know I'm going to make this. It's you know, you
take pressure off yourself. You're not you're not expecting to
make anything. You're expecting to go through your process as
well as you can. And when you think that, you know,
even on the PGA tour, them is in fifty percent
of parts of about five feet you know it's there's
there's there really shouldn't be be any pressure. The best
thing you can do is just go through your pre
your routine.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but you know I know that if I were
to ask myself is this possible? The answer as always
of course it's possible. Is it probable that I'm gonna
make it? That's when doubt enters the conversation in my head.
But if I walk up to a putt and you know,
you know, and I'm looking at the putt as I'm
walking towards the green, I'm going, I got this one.
I know I got this one. This one, I walk
in with total confidence instead of questioning myself. I feel
more comfortable. But then then when I'm standing over the ball,
that the doubt enters and I start questioning, do you
really got this one? So, yeah, it's a very thin line.
You're walking between asking yourself can I do this? Versus
telling yourself I can do this? Do you agree?
Speaker 3: Yeah? I think that you know, the intention is to
make every shot within I mean, I say within fifty odds.
I think the intention should be to make every shot.
The closer, the more positive, and the more precise your
your visualization for the shot, the closer you're going to
get to the target. So I would always say that
the intention is to is to make the shot. But
I think that there's no I don't think there's any
harm in sort of pre accepting you know, a miss,
you know, the worst thing you can do is to
you know, say you know, I'm going to make this. Well,
not the worst thing, but it doesn't help you to
say I'm going to make this because you're you're you're
setting that expectation that if you don't make that part,
then you failed. And and so I think the intention
through your routine, the intention is to is to make
every part you're seeing it go in. I mean, you're
even being as detailed as to see you know where
on the whole that the ball is going to fall in.
But I think that those you know, building in a
bit of acceptance into your routine so that you don't
disappoint yourself when you do this, you know, can can
can help study the ship.
Speaker 1: Excellent advice in your putting mistakes article. I'm curious why
you say it's a mistake to Are you saying it's
a mistake to not find out whether you're a straight back,
straight through putter or an arc putter, or are you saying
it is a mistake to worry about that.
Speaker 3: I would say, I mean this is this is it's
more of a technical thing actually, but but everyone has
you know, some players take it straight back, straight through
in some pots, you know, the putter going on a
narc and you want to make sure you have the
right equipment for that. You know, there's there's a you know,
face balance putter and a you know heure or toe
toe weighted putter. So if you're a you know, if
you're a straight back straight through, you want to have
a face balance putter and know and know what the
difference is because that can that can extra stroke.
Speaker 1: Can you explain face balance for those who don't know.
Speaker 3: So, face balance potter is when there's equal weight across
across the face of the potter, and you can you
can test this out by holding the potter, you know,
a few inches from the from the head of the
potter on the shaft and you can see how the
potter is is balanced, whether it's it's balanced in the
toe or the heel, or it just lies it just
lies flat.
Speaker 1: So if you are a straight back straight through, then
you do want face.
Speaker 3: Balanced You want to face balanced potter.
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay. And if you are if your your stroke
is on an arc around like and that arc is
like around your body, not the arc of a full swing,
that arc you want to you want to have a
a heel weighted putter.
Speaker 3: Why is that that's that's a that's a technical question. Okay,
It's just to do with the the you know, the
movement that the the put is naturally going to take
when it gets you know, when you when you would
if you were to take it back on a pendulum.
So I would have thought that if you're if you're
taking it straight back and you've got to you know,
a heel weighted putter, you're going to be kind of
like fighting against against the potterst natural movement.
Speaker 1: Getting too technical is is what you think is also
a very big issue for most people as they spend
too much time forcing that. Is that what you mean
by being too technical?
Speaker 3: Yeah? I do. I think that putting, you know, as
we just discussed, putting is probably the most mental part
of the game, and it should for me. It's it's
an art, not a science. And I think that you know,
even with you know, I don't I could use a
you know, one of those old bull's eye putters and
and plays as well as you know, using one of
the the most recent uh super luper potters, because for me,
it's all about you know, how while I've visualized the
line how while I've felt it and and really got
got into the putt itself instead of anything to do
with with my stroke. I think that same with the
with the longer, the long game. If you've got a
good if you've got if you've got strong fundamentals and
you know you're setting up consistently to every part and
you know, I mean, alignment is absolutely key. And that's
another another one of the mistakes is that you know,
you could have a you know, a great visualization and
great great feel and then great green reading, but if
you don't actually put the potter face down in line
with where you want the ball to start, then then
you're not going to you know, you're going to miss
the put. So good fundamentals and then really good alignment
and making sure that you are making sure that your
alignment is absolutely spot on.
Speaker 1: The place where I find the mental game, uh intersects
so much with the physical elements the swing mechanics are
in my short game, whether it be bunker play or chipping,
because where I think I understand what I'm supposed to
be doing and I have the tools to do it properly,
but my head gets into you know, like the amount
of pressure the amount of the back swing, the you know,
how how much do I hit down on it?
Speaker 3: How?
Speaker 1: You know, there's so many different technical elements that get
in the way of the mental game when when the
metal game is so important when it comes to the
short part of.
Speaker 3: Your game, Yeah it is. I mean there's there's so
many different ways that you can play those short shots.
And you know, I know exactly what you mean when
you're when you're in a bunker and you've got a
certain kind of lie and you're thinking, you know, well,
you know how it's going to you know, how it's
going to pop out, how deeps the sand, and you know,
there's all sorts of things that are going through your head.
And I think that you know, commitment is commitment. Commitment
to a bad shot is going to result better than
you know, not committing to a good shot, if you
understand what I mean, so.
Speaker 1: Not at all committed to have no idea what.
Speaker 3: Man so for for example, I would say that whatever
whatever you decide, no matter how good a player you
are around the greens or you know, out of bunkers,
committing and believing that you can hit those shots is
going to help you out more than any kinds of
thought thoughts, technical thoughts about you know, how far you
should open the club face and how far you know,
you know, how deep you should hit through the sand.
Those are things that you can figure out in your
in your practice, your practice things and your preparation for
the shot. And I think that if you you've had
more meaningful practice sessions where you actually like put yourself
in tricky situations and and and you have, you know,
you're experimenting with different rise and you're experiment experimenting that
open the club, opening the club place to various degrees
the game, the game can become more instinctive, and those
shots can become more instinctive, so that you'll have you'll
have a lot more confidence over them instead of having
to fulfill your head with with all the technical stuff.
But I would just say that committing, committing to the
shot you've chosen and setting up in the correct way
to be able to play that shot is all you
really need to all you really need to focus on.
Speaker 1: Is it possible to convince yourself that you're confident?
Speaker 3: I think so. I think that there's there's a couple
of types of confidence. There's there's the external confidence and
there's internal confidence. External confidence isn't long lasting. It's you know,
external confidence is based on how well you're you're playing,
And most people think that confidence is a result of
how well well you just played, played the last shot,
or played the lost hole, or played the last round,
when really we want to we want to think about
confidence being something that you can generate within, which then
affects your your playing. If you're thinking about confidence as
being you know, you have to be playing well to
build confidence, and you put it, you put more pressure
on your game, and you you know, you don't feel
like you're as good as good a player after hitting it,
you know, a couple of black bad shots. Whereas confidence
can be built through through you know, from from the
inside out. If you can start to imagine yourself as
a good player and convincing yourself that you're a good
player and talking to yourself in the right way right
now golf course, you can you can build confidence that
is is much more long lasting and enduring.
Speaker 1: And at what point does the the confidence uh over
what's the word I'm looking for take control over your mechanics?
Does that make sense? Like, how do I word this properly?
So it makes sense, at what point in your game
that does the mental game have a stronger impact than
then your mechanics in helping you get get to lower scores?
Am I is this working? Is is that question making
any sense?
Speaker 3: It? Does it? Uh?
Speaker 1: You know, because you know we talked earlier about how
you went from an eighteen or you went from an
eleven down. You know, you had all the mechanics there,
and then we talked about, well what about a middle
handicapper who would love to go from an eighteen nineteen
down to ten or eleven? I mean, just getting close
to ten is is a great accomplishment for somebody, you know,
knowing that the single digits may never be part of
my life.
Speaker 3: Right, I think that I think that no matter what
level of player you are, you can instantly take shots
off your game with a better mental approach. And I
do understand a completely agree with question. But most people
that you know, people that either visit my website or
talk to me about the mental game. And you know,
when I'm out on the golf course and I'm talking
to people, they don't think they're ready for the mental game.
They think that it's for the elite player, and you know,
they haven't mastered the golf swing yet, so why you
know what, why would they be thinking about, you know,
trying to learn learn the mind game when I I
would say that there's no sooner time than than now
to start learning the mental game, no matter what player
you are. I mean, that's just it's just you know,
when I when I watch tour players or walk around
with very good players, there's just things that they do
that don't require any physical skill that probably you know,
you know, makes them like, you know, four or five
shots better go round? And you know who doesn't want
to knock four or five shots off the off their score,
no matter you know what, you know, whether twenty eight
handicapper or sixteen handicapper, it's just it's it's it's stuff
that doesn't require any physical skill and just you know,
following following a process. I mean, these you know, these things,
it's not instantaneous. You know, you have to go through
the practice, just like you do with the mental game.
But it is it gets you there, It gets you
there quicker.
Speaker 1: And I think you can help us get there too, yes, yeah.
Speaker 3: You know, and I certainly can. It's it's it's a
fascinating area of the game. And you know, my eyes,
you know, were just you know, open to it through
through my in my performance that you know, when I
when I started on this route of really trying to
understand about the mental side of the game and how
it is a game of of of of mostly you know,
emotional and mental management. And you know, as I said before,
I'm not discounting looking swing mechanics. What I am saying
is that there's way too much focus on swing, on equipment,
and you know there's other things like ego and score
stuff like that. But if you if you can and
can refocus on what's really important and really and it's
really going to uh to take you, take you to
the next level quicker and more effectively, and and you'll
have more fun as a result.
Speaker 1: I hope so, and I think so well, David, You've
got I was saying before on the previous episode that
your your website, Golf State Offmind dot com is just
a wealth of video and and and writings and articles
on the mental game. But it's not just focused on
mental part. You go into the short game and putting
and practice and make recommendations on books. It's really a
great website and I want to thank Nick Chirtak, who's
a golf long time Golf Smarter listener, for introducing us.
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, I appreciate that too. Yeah, he's been he's
been a friend for quite a few years now and
I always enjoy you know, his little his his him
sparking the conversations on on Facebook, and you know, he
knows his stuff.
Speaker 1: And if anybody wants to contact David, you can do so.
Just go to his website and again you can get
his free newsletter and he's got a lot of goodies
he's given away. But if you want to spend more
time with him, I'm sure he's not given that away,
but you can check it out. David Mackenzie, thank you
so much for coming on to the Golf Smarter podcast
and sharing your methods and your teachings.
Speaker 3: Thank you very much, fred I. You know I love
talking about this stuff. This is my passion and you
know I've been a big fan of your your You're
Both Smart podcast for for a long time now and
it's been an absolute pleasure talking to you.