WEBVTT 1 00:00:03.919 --> 00:00:07.000 You are listening to the IFAH podcast Network. For more 2 00:00:07.080 --> 00:00:12.720 amazing filmmaking and screenwriting podcasts, just go to ifagpodcastnetwork dot com. 3 00:00:12.839 --> 00:00:16.359 Welcome to the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast, Episode number four eleven. 4 00:00:16.640 --> 00:00:23.480 First Think, second Dream, Third, Believe, and finally dare Walt Disney. 5 00:00:23.600 --> 00:00:27.079 Broadcasting from a dark, windowless room in Hollywood when we 6 00:00:27.160 --> 00:00:29.679 really should be working on that next draft. It's the 7 00:00:29.719 --> 00:00:33.840 Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast, showing you the craft and business of 8 00:00:33.840 --> 00:00:37.240 screenwriting while teaching you how to make your screenplay bulletproof. 9 00:00:37.560 --> 00:00:39.759 And here's your host, Alex Ferrari. 10 00:00:41.719 --> 00:00:44.679 Welcome, Welcome to another episode of the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast. 11 00:00:44.719 --> 00:00:46.600 I am your humble host, Alex Ferrari. 12 00:00:47.119 --> 00:00:51.359 Now, today's show is sponsored by Bulletproof Script Coverage. 13 00:00:51.560 --> 00:00:51.759 Now. 14 00:00:51.840 --> 00:00:56.759 Unlike other script coverage services, Bulletproof Script Coverage actually focuses 15 00:00:56.799 --> 00:00:59.759 on the kind of project you are in the goals 16 00:00:59.799 --> 00:01:02.200 of the project you are, so we actually break it 17 00:01:02.240 --> 00:01:05.760 down by three categories micro budget, indie film, market, and 18 00:01:05.840 --> 00:01:08.519 studio film. There's no reason to get coverage from a 19 00:01:08.560 --> 00:01:11.200 reader that's used to reading tempole movies when your movie 20 00:01:11.319 --> 00:01:13.680 is going to be done for one hundred thousand dollars, 21 00:01:13.760 --> 00:01:16.680 and we wanted to focus on that. At Bulletproof Script Coverage, 22 00:01:16.920 --> 00:01:22.400 our readers have worked with Marvel Studios, CIA, w me E, NBC, HBO, Disney, 23 00:01:22.840 --> 00:01:26.239 Scott Free, Warner Brothers, The Blacklist, and many many more. 24 00:01:26.319 --> 00:01:29.680 So if you need your screenplay or TV script covered 25 00:01:30.000 --> 00:01:35.840 by professional readers, head on over to covermiscreenplay dot com 26 00:01:35.879 --> 00:01:40.200 dot com. Enjoy today's episode with guest host Dave Bullis. 27 00:01:40.200 --> 00:01:42.480 My next guest is a screenwriter and director. 28 00:01:43.200 --> 00:01:47.319 His film Love Liza won the Waldo Salt Screaming Award 29 00:01:47.319 --> 00:01:49.879 at the two thousand and two Sundance Film Festival. His 30 00:01:50.000 --> 00:01:53.079 other film, Dog Bowl Well premiere it at the twenty 31 00:01:53.159 --> 00:01:57.120 fifteen Sundance Film Festival. We're going to talk all about 32 00:01:57.480 --> 00:01:59.840 Paul Thomas Anderson, and we're going to talk a little 33 00:01:59.840 --> 00:02:02.719 boitam thread. We're gonna talk about all that good stuff 34 00:02:02.719 --> 00:02:04.200 because this guest. 35 00:02:03.879 --> 00:02:06.120 Has you know, been down the road a couple of times. 36 00:02:06.280 --> 00:02:08.800 And we're also going to talk about obviously the Blue 37 00:02:08.800 --> 00:02:12.000 Cat Screenwriting Competition, which some deadlines are coming up, but 38 00:02:12.039 --> 00:02:13.840 I've also linked to those in the show notes, and 39 00:02:13.879 --> 00:02:15.919 also all the movies we talk about are in the 40 00:02:15.960 --> 00:02:20.039 show notes. Again Dave Bullis dot com. Just remember that's 41 00:02:20.080 --> 00:02:23.159 in case you need it for later. But with guest 42 00:02:23.840 --> 00:02:27.280 Gordy Hoffman. You know, Gourdy, I've actually you know, followed 43 00:02:27.319 --> 00:02:29.199 you for a while. I've I've actually entered the Blue 44 00:02:29.199 --> 00:02:32.879 Cat a few times. I've seen a few webinars. You know, 45 00:02:33.639 --> 00:02:36.080 not only is Blue Cat awesome, but but Gordy, you're 46 00:02:36.120 --> 00:02:38.680 kind of like the the the guy that you want 47 00:02:38.680 --> 00:02:41.719 to learn writing from because you're so like good natured 48 00:02:41.800 --> 00:02:43.520 and you just like have that attitude, you know what 49 00:02:43.560 --> 00:02:46.280 I mean, Like you just seem like you you not 50 00:02:46.319 --> 00:02:48.360 only know what you're doing, but but you know what 51 00:02:48.400 --> 00:02:50.680 I mean, like it's that that you're that you have 52 00:02:50.680 --> 00:02:52.479 the personality that sort of comes through if you know 53 00:02:52.520 --> 00:02:53.120 what I'm trying to. 54 00:02:53.039 --> 00:02:57.280 Say, Well, you know, well thank you. That's that's very 55 00:02:57.360 --> 00:03:00.919 sweet to say. And you know, I learned probably a 56 00:03:00.919 --> 00:03:03.879 long time ago that you know, when I was directing 57 00:03:04.840 --> 00:03:07.680 and when I got into teaching, that. 58 00:03:09.960 --> 00:03:11.400 You know, being. 59 00:03:11.240 --> 00:03:14.479 Loving and kind and courteous when you're talking to somebody 60 00:03:14.520 --> 00:03:17.960 about their stuff and trying to be makes them more receptive. 61 00:03:18.000 --> 00:03:19.800 I mean, if you ultimately want to help people and 62 00:03:19.879 --> 00:03:22.560 serve them and give them some information and help them 63 00:03:22.560 --> 00:03:24.319 with their writing. You want them to be able to 64 00:03:24.360 --> 00:03:29.360 listen and hear what you're saying. And you know, people 65 00:03:29.439 --> 00:03:31.360 get you know, no one wants to be sort of 66 00:03:31.360 --> 00:03:36.479 get negative or sort of shaming or anything, or like me, 67 00:03:36.639 --> 00:03:40.879 denigrated or discouraged in a way. It just it shuts 68 00:03:40.879 --> 00:03:44.439 people down, and they're not going to produce. Actors getting 69 00:03:44.479 --> 00:03:48.879 that nervous crew gets angry, resentful, they're not going to be. 70 00:03:49.080 --> 00:03:52.400 But if you're kind of courteous and respectful when you're 71 00:03:52.439 --> 00:03:55.520 making a film and and when you're talking to people 72 00:03:55.599 --> 00:03:59.879 about their work, it's difficult sometimes to navigate that. But 73 00:04:00.039 --> 00:04:03.560 it's something that we stress with our readers often. You know, 74 00:04:03.719 --> 00:04:05.840 we just say, you know, you got to be you 75 00:04:05.879 --> 00:04:07.800 are talking to the reader when you're setting you know, 76 00:04:07.840 --> 00:04:11.400 writing up the notes and and no one you know, 77 00:04:11.599 --> 00:04:14.960 it's just natural. It's just no one wants to People 78 00:04:15.000 --> 00:04:17.040 tend to shut down. They're not going to listen, they're 79 00:04:17.079 --> 00:04:19.759 not going to hear the notes if if they're delivered 80 00:04:19.800 --> 00:04:23.240 in a way so over time, I think, you know, 81 00:04:23.279 --> 00:04:26.399 I'm just not the you know, it's not really I 82 00:04:26.439 --> 00:04:30.079 guess that you know, there's probably some higher ethical reasons 83 00:04:30.079 --> 00:04:31.959 why you should be good to nice to people. But 84 00:04:32.000 --> 00:04:35.079 it's also it's also very practical, you know. It's also 85 00:04:35.199 --> 00:04:38.199 it's also practical if you want to actually tell a 86 00:04:38.240 --> 00:04:43.160 better story, then it's good to collaborate and work with 87 00:04:43.199 --> 00:04:48.560 writers and work with your fellow collaborators in a way 88 00:04:48.600 --> 00:04:52.399 that fosters that spirit so that they're relaxed and they 89 00:04:52.399 --> 00:04:58.360 feel entitled in the work and excited. So yeah, I 90 00:04:58.399 --> 00:05:04.199 don't want to crush people's spirits, Dave, crust their dreams. 91 00:05:04.240 --> 00:05:07.279 You know. It's just like it stays with you for years, 92 00:05:07.360 --> 00:05:09.399 you know. I mean it's like it's not a good look. 93 00:05:09.480 --> 00:05:13.439 So yeah, so I think it's just I think all 94 00:05:13.600 --> 00:05:17.120 anybody who likes to teach and has been teaching a 95 00:05:17.120 --> 00:05:20.160 while kind of learns that it's a it's a much 96 00:05:20.240 --> 00:05:23.560 more effective way to help a student. And that's what 97 00:05:23.639 --> 00:05:24.839 you want to do when you're teaching. 98 00:05:27.160 --> 00:05:30.439 You know, in your journey, Gordy, you know, through through 99 00:05:30.720 --> 00:05:33.360 going through all these different you know, uh places like 100 00:05:33.439 --> 00:05:35.680 you know, like Sundance and going on to you know, 101 00:05:35.720 --> 00:05:37.839 doing these webinars, and I mean, I'm sure you've met 102 00:05:37.839 --> 00:05:40.120 a ton of ton of people, you know, and and 103 00:05:40.199 --> 00:05:42.560 so you know, having done all that, have you met 104 00:05:42.560 --> 00:05:45.759 screenwrinning teachers who are who are like that, who just 105 00:05:45.839 --> 00:05:49.439 give like these very like paint like these notes that 106 00:05:49.439 --> 00:05:52.480 are just like directing to the point and very maybe even. 107 00:05:52.639 --> 00:05:55.879 Yeah, I've I've for yeah, I've heard of students going 108 00:05:56.680 --> 00:06:00.639 coming back and being like, oh, you like saying you know, 109 00:06:00.680 --> 00:06:02.839 And I think some people just feel like that's I mean, 110 00:06:02.879 --> 00:06:06.519 some people think that that and you know if and 111 00:06:06.600 --> 00:06:08.639 I think some people maybe like that, I don't know, 112 00:06:08.680 --> 00:06:11.519 they like the oh I need to be I need 113 00:06:11.639 --> 00:06:13.439 somebody to be tough on me, you know. And I 114 00:06:13.439 --> 00:06:18.040 guess that. But I've had a lot of good writers, 115 00:06:18.079 --> 00:06:21.959 talented people, people that are back have pretty good backbones. 116 00:06:22.519 --> 00:06:24.639 You know, people just fold, you know when they do that. 117 00:06:24.680 --> 00:06:27.600 But yeah, absolutely there's people that because it's, you know what, 118 00:06:27.680 --> 00:06:32.079 it's easier to yell. I mean, it's it's easier to 119 00:06:32.120 --> 00:06:34.519 just freak out on people, you know what I mean. 120 00:06:34.800 --> 00:06:39.759 The work of being like a teacher and the work 121 00:06:39.800 --> 00:06:43.519 of getting somebody effective notes that's struggling in this Wither story. 122 00:06:43.560 --> 00:06:47.360 The work of being a respected director and effective director 123 00:06:47.480 --> 00:06:50.879 is is is being is kind of being able to 124 00:06:50.920 --> 00:06:54.360 react with grace and be able to be respectful It's 125 00:06:54.399 --> 00:06:58.040 so easy to be a jerk, you know, I mean 126 00:06:58.079 --> 00:07:00.360 to just be like why what were you know, like 127 00:07:00.480 --> 00:07:03.720 whatever it is? And but you know, the thing is, 128 00:07:03.759 --> 00:07:06.079 I'm a writer, you know, and I'm and I'm a 129 00:07:06.120 --> 00:07:10.439 filmmaker myself. And I think that's that's why Bluecat, I 130 00:07:10.439 --> 00:07:13.439 think is flourished the way it hasn't grown the way 131 00:07:13.439 --> 00:07:17.360 it has And and I think that's what makes me 132 00:07:17.439 --> 00:07:19.839 an effective teacher as well, because I'm like, would I 133 00:07:19.879 --> 00:07:22.639 want to hear this? How would I want to hear notes? 134 00:07:22.759 --> 00:07:25.120 How would I want to hear this? Like? What would 135 00:07:25.120 --> 00:07:30.079 I what do I think would be fair? And you 136 00:07:30.079 --> 00:07:32.480 know that having that perspective really helps. And I think 137 00:07:32.560 --> 00:07:36.759 some maybe some teachers aren't we're never really writers or 138 00:07:36.879 --> 00:07:39.639 they haven't been writing for a long time, and they 139 00:07:40.279 --> 00:07:42.839 maybe it helps them so, but most teachers, you know, 140 00:07:43.079 --> 00:07:47.480 I think a lot of really affective teachers, you know, 141 00:07:48.040 --> 00:07:50.240 approach it with a pretty even keel. I don't think 142 00:07:50.279 --> 00:07:53.319 you really hear a bunch of you know, here too 143 00:07:53.399 --> 00:07:56.040 much about lunatic people. And I just don't think that that. 144 00:07:56.160 --> 00:08:01.160 I don't think that screamers really. I mean, writing is 145 00:08:01.160 --> 00:08:05.519 such a personal action, you know, it's a very vulnerable 146 00:08:05.560 --> 00:08:11.720 thing all creative artistic pursuits. You know, it's like you're 147 00:08:11.720 --> 00:08:15.199 really opening yourself up. You know, your instrument is your 148 00:08:15.279 --> 00:08:18.680 personal life. And you know it can get a little 149 00:08:18.680 --> 00:08:21.519 hairy when somebody's coming after the writing because it feels 150 00:08:21.560 --> 00:08:24.199 like they're coming after you. So yes, and you only 151 00:08:24.240 --> 00:08:28.079 know that. I think if you experience the process of 152 00:08:28.120 --> 00:08:33.399 writing yourself and you know how personal it is, so yeah. 153 00:08:32.320 --> 00:08:34.639 Yeah, you know that that's that thing. You know, how 154 00:08:34.679 --> 00:08:37.639 do you differentiate between the writing and yourself? You know, 155 00:08:37.679 --> 00:08:39.840 you hit the nail on the head right there, because 156 00:08:39.879 --> 00:08:41.519 you know, it's kind of like if you write a 157 00:08:41.519 --> 00:08:44.919 screenplay or a short story and you turn it in 158 00:08:45.120 --> 00:08:49.360 and the judges or the script consultant or whomever, or 159 00:08:49.559 --> 00:08:52.159 you know, the writers group doesn't like it. So you 160 00:08:52.159 --> 00:08:54.000 I mean, you feel like I've been there before. I 161 00:08:54.240 --> 00:08:56.159 feel like it's an assault on me, you know, and 162 00:08:56.200 --> 00:08:58.639 you're like, how dare you? You know, and then you 163 00:08:58.639 --> 00:08:59.879 start cogitated. 164 00:09:00.960 --> 00:09:02.879 Yeah, and that's and that's that's a good it's a 165 00:09:02.919 --> 00:09:07.600 good professional it's good exercising professionalism to be like, you know, 166 00:09:07.679 --> 00:09:12.000 this is not about you, and sometimes things are very personal, 167 00:09:12.159 --> 00:09:14.000 and you know, it feels like oh god, you know, 168 00:09:14.080 --> 00:09:17.639 and somebody's like, I think that character is a certain 169 00:09:17.679 --> 00:09:20.840 way and you thought differently, and that might reflect on 170 00:09:20.960 --> 00:09:25.120 your values, and it might reflect on your ethical uh 171 00:09:25.480 --> 00:09:28.399 you know core, you know, and and that can it 172 00:09:28.440 --> 00:09:30.720 starts to feel like you're kind of getting It's kind 173 00:09:30.720 --> 00:09:33.080 of like, oh, you know, you you think I'm a 174 00:09:33.080 --> 00:09:35.559 creep or you think I'm angry, or you think I'm like, 175 00:09:36.000 --> 00:09:38.919 you know whatever, or you think I condone this or 176 00:09:39.279 --> 00:09:42.879 you know whatever. And the professionals, I think, you know, 177 00:09:43.080 --> 00:09:46.000 I think it's good we all fall into that. And 178 00:09:46.039 --> 00:09:48.200 I think it's always good for me to remember that. 179 00:09:49.679 --> 00:09:52.519 You know. It's like, you know, this is a story. 180 00:09:53.200 --> 00:09:55.600 You know, you're creating something. You're going to create more. 181 00:09:55.919 --> 00:09:57.320 You know, you're gonna have a body of work. 182 00:09:59.120 --> 00:10:01.639 We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor, 183 00:10:05.240 --> 00:10:06.519 and now back to the show. 184 00:10:08.759 --> 00:10:10.960 It's not you, it's not your life, it's you know, 185 00:10:11.039 --> 00:10:15.080 and everything is so personal the reactions from people. I mean, 186 00:10:15.120 --> 00:10:18.360 people are so spot get so wound up with feedback 187 00:10:19.000 --> 00:10:21.159 sometimes and it's it's like haven't you ever gone to 188 00:10:21.240 --> 00:10:24.039 a movie? It's like people that you love, like your 189 00:10:24.080 --> 00:10:27.600 family or your best friends or your spouses, or your 190 00:10:27.960 --> 00:10:31.080 partners or whoever, and you walk out and one person goes, 191 00:10:31.200 --> 00:10:33.840 I hated that, and the other person goes, god, I 192 00:10:33.879 --> 00:10:36.320 loved it, you know. And then and no one goes, 193 00:10:36.440 --> 00:10:39.360 oh my god, we need to move out, you know, 194 00:10:39.480 --> 00:10:42.600 or you know, there's no there's no big fallout. You know, 195 00:10:42.639 --> 00:10:45.720 it's sort of like, okay, yeah, you like Star Wars, 196 00:10:45.759 --> 00:10:48.440 I didn't you know, or whatever, and and you like 197 00:10:48.519 --> 00:10:51.519 Shape of Water and I didn't. There's something, and and 198 00:10:51.759 --> 00:10:53.960 that's it. Then you just go home and get dinner, 199 00:10:54.000 --> 00:10:55.759 and you know, you just kind of go on. But 200 00:10:55.960 --> 00:10:59.399 like when people have a reader or a writer's group, 201 00:10:59.639 --> 00:11:04.480 or a manager pass or a producer never get back 202 00:11:04.519 --> 00:11:07.120 to you, it's like and it's like, oh, you know, 203 00:11:07.120 --> 00:11:10.159 it's so devastating. It's like, you know, they're just people 204 00:11:10.399 --> 00:11:14.200 and it's just another reaction. And sometimes you might have 205 00:11:14.279 --> 00:11:18.440 expectations about you know, wanting a reaction from like say 206 00:11:18.480 --> 00:11:21.240 a contest, or from a producer or from a colleague. 207 00:11:21.799 --> 00:11:24.000 You want that reaction to be you know, the work. 208 00:11:24.039 --> 00:11:27.240 You know, you have expectations. But that's that's also something 209 00:11:27.279 --> 00:11:30.519 that we you know, as professionals, we want to keep developing, 210 00:11:31.080 --> 00:11:33.720 you know, a healthy sense of expectations and keep things 211 00:11:33.720 --> 00:11:35.919 in check and know that it's not at the end 212 00:11:35.960 --> 00:11:39.120 of the world if something doesn't, because you can as 213 00:11:39.159 --> 00:11:43.360 a writer. Writers always you know, there's always another movie, 214 00:11:43.360 --> 00:11:46.759 there's always another great idea. I mean, I'm you know, 215 00:11:46.840 --> 00:11:50.200 I get so worked up and then you know, and 216 00:11:50.240 --> 00:11:53.919 then you know, I come across another thing it's so incredible, 217 00:11:53.919 --> 00:11:56.320 and I go and I'm so excited about the idea 218 00:11:56.360 --> 00:11:58.720 of writing it, and I go, you know, and it 219 00:11:58.720 --> 00:12:02.000 makes you free of everything else, you know, so lower 220 00:12:02.039 --> 00:12:06.320 your expectations and realize everything is you know, everything's coming 221 00:12:06.360 --> 00:12:11.039 from a personal their own personal plays. And just remember that. 222 00:12:11.200 --> 00:12:13.480 You know how many times you've gone to the theater 223 00:12:13.600 --> 00:12:18.960 and walked out with divided reactions and it's so perplexing sometimes, 224 00:12:19.000 --> 00:12:20.679 you know, like what do you mean you didn't like that? 225 00:12:21.240 --> 00:12:23.639 You know, and it's like no, I didn't, and it's 226 00:12:23.720 --> 00:12:26.440 like okay, you know, and and it's just that's what 227 00:12:26.600 --> 00:12:29.480 makes everything kind of fun, you know, that's what makes 228 00:12:29.519 --> 00:12:31.720 the storytelling, you know, interesting. 229 00:12:31.799 --> 00:12:34.600 I think, yeah, you know, it reminds you that episode 230 00:12:34.639 --> 00:12:39.080 of Seinfeld where where mister Peterman he didn't like he 231 00:12:39.360 --> 00:12:42.879 said he took English Elaine to see the English patient 232 00:12:42.919 --> 00:12:48.120 and she hated it and he actually fired her. It 233 00:12:48.200 --> 00:12:50.600 is so funny because you know, not only does that 234 00:12:50.600 --> 00:12:53.679 speak of character within Seinfeld, but it's also I mean, 235 00:12:53.720 --> 00:12:56.399 you know, that's comedy because it's the ordinary that's brought 236 00:12:56.440 --> 00:13:00.120 up to the extraordinary. Because it's so ludicrous that that 237 00:13:00.159 --> 00:13:02.639 a boss fire an employee because he didn't she didn't 238 00:13:02.639 --> 00:13:03.440 like what movie. 239 00:13:03.360 --> 00:13:06.519 Is right and that. But that's how impassionate we are. 240 00:13:06.600 --> 00:13:10.000 That's how emotional we are about our decisions and our reactions. 241 00:13:10.000 --> 00:13:13.399 But as a writer, you know, it's it's like, yeah, 242 00:13:13.440 --> 00:13:15.960 and a lot of people get get really hung up 243 00:13:16.120 --> 00:13:19.200 on you know, and and you know, blue Cat gives 244 00:13:19.200 --> 00:13:21.639 out feedback and you know, and there's there's going to 245 00:13:21.679 --> 00:13:24.679 always be somebody who's going to be like this person 246 00:13:25.120 --> 00:13:28.279 you know, didn't you know, And I'm like, well, you know, 247 00:13:28.399 --> 00:13:31.000 that's what it's going to happen. You know. It's not 248 00:13:31.080 --> 00:13:34.120 a perfect process. You know, it's not math. It's not 249 00:13:34.200 --> 00:13:36.840 two plus two equals for and it's just not we're 250 00:13:36.879 --> 00:13:39.840 not doing that and not when like some people watch 251 00:13:39.960 --> 00:13:41.919 call me by your name and have one reaction and 252 00:13:42.000 --> 00:13:44.440 other people. I talked to a guy last night who 253 00:13:44.639 --> 00:13:46.799 walked out. You know, he just thought it was too slow. 254 00:13:47.159 --> 00:13:49.919 And other people think it's a masterpiece, you know, so 255 00:13:50.440 --> 00:13:53.799 and both of everybody's right. I mean, you know, love Wise, 256 00:13:53.840 --> 00:13:55.240 it was a movie I wrote. It came out a 257 00:13:55.240 --> 00:13:57.919 long time ago. It was reviewed in that you know, 258 00:13:58.000 --> 00:14:01.120 and people some are you know, came on theater, so 259 00:14:01.159 --> 00:14:03.879 it was reviewed by the press, and and you know, 260 00:14:04.000 --> 00:14:06.000 I realized that it was like the people that just 261 00:14:06.039 --> 00:14:08.200 thought it wasn't even worthy of a short. They just 262 00:14:08.200 --> 00:14:10.919 thought it was crap. You know. I'd be like, oh 263 00:14:10.960 --> 00:14:13.000 my god, you know, and then and then but then 264 00:14:13.039 --> 00:14:15.039 the people were like, oh, this is like a this 265 00:14:15.120 --> 00:14:17.960 is this is genius. And I realized it's like they're 266 00:14:18.000 --> 00:14:20.440 both sort of wrong and right, you know what I mean, 267 00:14:20.639 --> 00:14:22.960 Like I can't go to the genius people. People that 268 00:14:23.000 --> 00:14:24.960 think it was a masking roll. Well, you're right, that's 269 00:14:24.960 --> 00:14:27.159 a good review, you know what you're talking about the 270 00:14:27.200 --> 00:14:30.360 person who didn't like it. It's like, no, they're both right, 271 00:14:30.600 --> 00:14:33.360 you know, they're both like somebody likes something really like, 272 00:14:33.440 --> 00:14:36.440 oh my god, this is incredible. They're as crazy as 273 00:14:36.480 --> 00:14:38.919 the person that says something's horrible, you know what I mean. 274 00:14:39.000 --> 00:14:41.759 They're just it's just it's you know, it's all emotional 275 00:14:41.799 --> 00:14:46.320 response and personal history and you know it's it's but 276 00:14:46.519 --> 00:14:48.600 I mean, I hope you know, if anything, it's like 277 00:14:48.679 --> 00:14:52.279 I always I'm glad I think it when people when 278 00:14:52.279 --> 00:14:54.879 writers can like really look past that, because it really 279 00:14:54.919 --> 00:14:57.080 frees you up, you know, you realize it's like it 280 00:14:57.200 --> 00:14:59.600 keeps you going, and I think it gets you back 281 00:14:59.639 --> 00:15:02.279 to folks, you know, on developing better story instead of 282 00:15:02.440 --> 00:15:05.440 just focusing on reactions and all that stuff. 283 00:15:05.480 --> 00:15:08.559 So yeah, and you hit the nail on the head too, 284 00:15:08.639 --> 00:15:12.360 Gordy when you said about you know, this whole idea 285 00:15:12.360 --> 00:15:15.879 of story, because I think too many times when when 286 00:15:15.919 --> 00:15:18.679 you I mean, there's ten thousand screw running books out there, 287 00:15:19.159 --> 00:15:20.799 and the problem is you start to read some of 288 00:15:20.840 --> 00:15:22.600 these and it's all about a formula, you know what 289 00:15:22.639 --> 00:15:25.240 I mean. It's it's the precise, you know, and it 290 00:15:25.279 --> 00:15:27.720 is like you said, it's not math. But some of 291 00:15:27.720 --> 00:15:30.480 those books, though, they treat it as such, where it's 292 00:15:30.559 --> 00:15:33.000 like on page this, on page that this has to 293 00:15:33.080 --> 00:15:35.279 happen and blah blah blah blah, and then you start 294 00:15:35.320 --> 00:15:37.919 to get just lost in this. And that's why I think, 295 00:15:38.000 --> 00:15:40.080 I mean, you must see a lot where you're kind 296 00:15:40.120 --> 00:15:43.960 of like, this feels like they're not really writing a story, 297 00:15:43.960 --> 00:15:48.159 but they're trying to solve like a like a math problem. 298 00:15:48.519 --> 00:15:51.320 Absolutely. I mean, you know, there was a really there 299 00:15:51.440 --> 00:15:54.399 was a period of time where people were Saved the 300 00:15:54.440 --> 00:15:58.240 Cat was sort of you know, I mean with all 301 00:15:58.279 --> 00:16:01.799 credits to Save the Cat and the and the principles 302 00:16:01.799 --> 00:16:05.679 that the really healthy story principles that it so that 303 00:16:05.759 --> 00:16:07.799 it affirms and everything, and it was a period where 304 00:16:07.840 --> 00:16:09.480 it was like, you know, maybe ten years ago where 305 00:16:09.519 --> 00:16:12.879 it was like everybody was like, you know, really ablaze 306 00:16:12.919 --> 00:16:14.919 with that, and people were using it left and right, 307 00:16:14.960 --> 00:16:17.240 and and scripts some of the scripts were just ain't 308 00:16:17.240 --> 00:16:20.360 coherent because they were just they weren't even they had 309 00:16:20.519 --> 00:16:24.120 lost offense. They weren't even connected to their own story 310 00:16:24.200 --> 00:16:29.039 intuitive sort of compass inside, and so they were like, well, 311 00:16:29.080 --> 00:16:30.759 this is what the character is supposed to do on 312 00:16:30.759 --> 00:16:32.679 this page. And it was like with them, and you'd 313 00:16:32.679 --> 00:16:33.919 read it, you'd be like, I don't even know what's 314 00:16:33.960 --> 00:16:36.080 going on, you know, and and and you and the 315 00:16:36.120 --> 00:16:40.200 emotional thing wasn't happening and everything else. So yeah, you know, 316 00:16:40.279 --> 00:16:42.759 you kind of look for you can you know, the 317 00:16:42.799 --> 00:16:46.120 books are great and if you get stuff that inspires 318 00:16:46.159 --> 00:16:49.440 you incredible, If you get something that makes sense, it's great. 319 00:16:49.919 --> 00:16:54.039 A teacher, an analyst, a consultant. You know. It could 320 00:16:54.080 --> 00:16:56.759 be the guy, some guy you need at Starbucks who says, oh, 321 00:16:56.799 --> 00:16:59.120 I want to read your script, or some the barista, 322 00:16:59.559 --> 00:17:02.120 you know, anybody wants to you know, I'll read it, 323 00:17:02.200 --> 00:17:04.480 you know, And then they go, I just didn't think. 324 00:17:04.559 --> 00:17:07.200 I mean, I've gotten notes from everywhere, you know what 325 00:17:07.279 --> 00:17:09.960 I mean, and it just doesn't there's no there's no 326 00:17:11.039 --> 00:17:13.799 bad source of notes. It's just the one that actually 327 00:17:13.839 --> 00:17:16.680 help you move forward. And know that. But yeah, you 328 00:17:16.759 --> 00:17:21.720 have to strike a balance between what the what formula is, 329 00:17:21.799 --> 00:17:24.680 what kind of this is? What this is the third act, 330 00:17:24.720 --> 00:17:30.039 you know whatever, and knowing that the only rule of 331 00:17:30.079 --> 00:17:34.680 storytelling is emotional investment and getting an audience to care. 332 00:17:35.240 --> 00:17:37.759 I mean, you know, I mean, good example, call me 333 00:17:37.759 --> 00:17:41.000 by your name. I mean, I don't know what formula 334 00:17:41.480 --> 00:17:45.039 that followed or were like act structure or anything like that. 335 00:17:45.119 --> 00:17:48.079 I don't know. I don't know where a phantom thread. 336 00:17:48.680 --> 00:17:51.000 You know, you can't. I don't know what I mean. 337 00:17:51.039 --> 00:17:53.599 I mean, I'd have to probably watch it again or 338 00:17:53.599 --> 00:17:55.640 a couple more times to see. But I'm sure that 339 00:17:55.640 --> 00:17:57.839 Paul Thomas Anderson did not, you know, it was not 340 00:17:58.200 --> 00:18:01.880 even thinking about that. He was just telling an emotional story, 341 00:18:02.839 --> 00:18:06.839 creating characters that he thought an audience would be interested 342 00:18:06.880 --> 00:18:11.680 in and invested in emotionally. And that is what drives 343 00:18:11.799 --> 00:18:16.200 That's what drives affected storytelling. That's what that's what drives 344 00:18:16.279 --> 00:18:21.000 classic movies making, and that's what that's what drives profit 345 00:18:21.079 --> 00:18:24.319 in the marketplace is emotion. I mean, wonder Woman was 346 00:18:24.400 --> 00:18:28.839 wonder Woman because people loved wonder Woman and they were 347 00:18:29.000 --> 00:18:32.920 so gratified by her performance who she was, we were 348 00:18:32.960 --> 00:18:35.640 able to connect with her. It was like, oh, you know, 349 00:18:35.759 --> 00:18:38.880 and it's you know, and so this this happens, Whereas, 350 00:18:39.000 --> 00:18:41.440 like you know, the thing with Star Wars. It's like 351 00:18:41.519 --> 00:18:44.720 there was some mixed reactions out there we can all 352 00:18:44.839 --> 00:18:48.200 kind of safely say, and some people were like, I 353 00:18:48.240 --> 00:18:51.640 am not and basically boiled down to I am not 354 00:18:51.960 --> 00:18:55.839 feeling Luke Skywalker. I do not. I'm like I've lost 355 00:18:55.920 --> 00:19:00.279 my connection with Luke Skywalker. That's really what happened. It's 356 00:19:00.359 --> 00:19:03.079 like it's like they did something else with Luke and 357 00:19:04.200 --> 00:19:08.359 made some choices about the story, and that's what happened. 358 00:19:08.400 --> 00:19:11.119 You can't. I don't think anyone can deny that there 359 00:19:11.200 --> 00:19:15.079 was an emotional breakdown with some of the audience because 360 00:19:15.119 --> 00:19:19.279 of who they knew, Luke Skywalker should be so anyway, 361 00:19:19.400 --> 00:19:21.519 So it's all emotional investment. And so as long as 362 00:19:21.559 --> 00:19:25.880 we can remember that when we're when we're writing, I mean, 363 00:19:26.079 --> 00:19:29.079 just just you know, make a balance between. You can 364 00:19:29.160 --> 00:19:32.440 read stuff inspired, get you thinking about things, get you 365 00:19:32.480 --> 00:19:37.519 thinking about conflict and tone and things like this, you know, 366 00:19:36.759 --> 00:19:39.920 get it's good to think about these things and study 367 00:19:39.960 --> 00:19:42.079 them and look at other movies and how they function 368 00:19:42.160 --> 00:19:44.960 everything else. But don't forget that eight year old child 369 00:19:45.039 --> 00:19:47.319 that knew how to tell a story, you know what 370 00:19:47.319 --> 00:19:49.079 I mean? You can you can. You can go to 371 00:19:49.119 --> 00:19:52.759 a ten year old and go what happened after school today? 372 00:19:53.200 --> 00:19:55.440 And they'll tell you a story. They'll know at a beginning, 373 00:19:55.440 --> 00:19:57.240 to middle and end it. They know what the inciting 374 00:19:57.240 --> 00:19:59.319 incident is, they know what the payoff is, they know 375 00:19:59.359 --> 00:19:59.880 what the ending. 376 00:20:01.839 --> 00:20:04.319 We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor 377 00:20:07.960 --> 00:20:09.200 and now back to the show. 378 00:20:10.960 --> 00:20:13.720 You know, and they they know what that is. It's 379 00:20:13.759 --> 00:20:16.839 in their bloodstream, it's in their DNA. And so we 380 00:20:16.960 --> 00:20:19.559 got we we want to strike a balance between what 381 00:20:19.599 --> 00:20:21.440 we learn and what we already. 382 00:20:21.079 --> 00:20:25.319 Know, you know, yeah, you know, and uh, somebody once 383 00:20:25.359 --> 00:20:28.519 told me about kids storytellers that one of the main 384 00:20:28.599 --> 00:20:32.200 reason that there they actually become such good storytellers is 385 00:20:32.200 --> 00:20:35.160 is because they they're not afraid to fail, and they're 386 00:20:35.200 --> 00:20:37.519 you know, they're not really concerned about that, and they 387 00:20:37.599 --> 00:20:38.319 just sort of they. 388 00:20:38.279 --> 00:20:40.200 Just go in full force of that story. 389 00:20:40.599 --> 00:20:42.920 And it's not until you start, you know, going through 390 00:20:43.000 --> 00:20:45.839 you know, your your young adult life or what have you, 391 00:20:45.839 --> 00:20:47.960 you start to go, oh my god, the pure pressure, 392 00:20:48.000 --> 00:20:49.359 Oh my god, what if I look, don't you know, 393 00:20:49.359 --> 00:20:50.599 what if so many things, I'm an idiot? 394 00:20:50.880 --> 00:20:53.240 What if this isn't good, I suck? Then if this sucks, 395 00:20:53.279 --> 00:20:53.799 you know what I mean? 396 00:20:55.200 --> 00:20:59.960 Right right? There is definitely a definitely an open, open 397 00:21:00.119 --> 00:21:04.559 feeling about what they're doing and everything else. Absolutely so. 398 00:21:04.599 --> 00:21:07.480 And by the way, I know you mentioned Paul Thomas Anderson. 399 00:21:07.680 --> 00:21:10.119 You know, I actually saw your am a on on 400 00:21:10.240 --> 00:21:14.079 Reddit Gordy and I last when you when somebody asked 401 00:21:14.279 --> 00:21:16.799 are you the Gordy that but Paul Thomas Ayerson thanked 402 00:21:16.839 --> 00:21:19.480 at the end of the master and you just responded 403 00:21:19.519 --> 00:21:23.880 back with the the Heisenberg meme of your damn right. 404 00:21:25.759 --> 00:21:28.160 Yeah, you know, it was funny. As I was. I 405 00:21:28.279 --> 00:21:30.799 remember that, I think I was. I had an intern 406 00:21:30.880 --> 00:21:33.119 in the office and he was like, no, let me 407 00:21:33.160 --> 00:21:36.359 get this any and I was like, okay, just put 408 00:21:36.359 --> 00:21:37.880 it up there, you know. He was he thought that 409 00:21:38.000 --> 00:21:41.519 was funny, or somebody was somebody in our office was like, yeah, 410 00:21:41.559 --> 00:21:44.319 he kind of grabbed that meme and put that up there. Yeah, 411 00:21:44.640 --> 00:21:47.319 I was. I was. I looked at the master a 412 00:21:47.319 --> 00:21:51.400 little bit along the way the script, and and you know, 413 00:21:51.480 --> 00:21:54.880 I'm obviously you know, Paul was very close to my brother, 414 00:21:55.160 --> 00:21:59.119 and they were like best friends and like literally brothers 415 00:21:59.119 --> 00:22:01.400 in their own right, you know. And and so we're 416 00:22:01.480 --> 00:22:05.839 very been very close to Paul for for twenty oh, 417 00:22:05.880 --> 00:22:07.839 you know, over twenty years. I mean, I you know, 418 00:22:07.960 --> 00:22:10.599 I mean I saw, you know, the Boogie Knights. I mean, 419 00:22:10.799 --> 00:22:13.920 my brother was telling me about Boogie I gave. I 420 00:22:13.960 --> 00:22:17.279 gave my brother Love Lies than the Fall of ninety six, 421 00:22:17.319 --> 00:22:19.799 and that was when he was shooting Boogie Knights, and 422 00:22:19.839 --> 00:22:22.480 he was telling me about this movie that he was 423 00:22:22.519 --> 00:22:26.440 making about the peign industry. You know. So it's I've known, 424 00:22:26.599 --> 00:22:30.440 you know, Paul, he's amazing. He's he really is our best. 425 00:22:30.960 --> 00:22:33.359 He's really the best we have, you know in America. 426 00:22:33.400 --> 00:22:37.839 I mean he's just he's like a Kubrick level genius. 427 00:22:37.880 --> 00:22:39.880 And he's gonna be I mean, the best is you 428 00:22:39.960 --> 00:22:43.079 have to come. I mean he's gonna Phantom Thread totally 429 00:22:44.599 --> 00:22:47.480 says that. You know, he's going to different play, he's 430 00:22:47.519 --> 00:22:49.839 gonna be, he's gonna everything is gonna he's gonna make 431 00:22:49.880 --> 00:22:52.400 so many great movies and then you know, in the 432 00:22:52.599 --> 00:22:56.200 second half of his life. It's really exciting. But yeah, 433 00:22:56.200 --> 00:22:59.759 I'm very honored. And he's always been very such a 434 00:23:00.200 --> 00:23:03.720 such a humble he's always very respectful of me, and 435 00:23:04.200 --> 00:23:06.680 you know, he's always been respectful of me, and he 436 00:23:06.720 --> 00:23:10.359 always he likes my judgment. And he's just a great guy, 437 00:23:10.640 --> 00:23:12.640 you know. I mean, he's a wonderful man too, is 438 00:23:12.640 --> 00:23:13.119 a good guy. 439 00:23:13.720 --> 00:23:15.359 So you know, as we were talking about, you know, 440 00:23:15.440 --> 00:23:19.279 directors and giving notes and stuff like that, so you know, 441 00:23:19.319 --> 00:23:22.039 in your experiences and working with him, you know, does 442 00:23:22.079 --> 00:23:25.119 he sort of have that sort of same mentality where 443 00:23:25.319 --> 00:23:28.359 you know, it's it's not so much of hey listen 444 00:23:28.440 --> 00:23:30.319 to me because I'm the director, but it's more of 445 00:23:30.480 --> 00:23:33.799 like he knows how to collaborate, you know, the right way. 446 00:23:34.160 --> 00:23:35.799 Because I've had people on here who've worked with like 447 00:23:35.880 --> 00:23:37.720 Quentin Tarantino, and that's one of the things they say 448 00:23:37.799 --> 00:23:39.960 was his strengths was was that, you know, he would 449 00:23:39.960 --> 00:23:41.720 get into this groove and they always knew when he 450 00:23:41.759 --> 00:23:43.680 likes stuff because he would start, you know, laughing and 451 00:23:43.720 --> 00:23:46.279 stuff like that, and and and you know, they they 452 00:23:46.319 --> 00:23:48.079 knew his vibe is this does Paul Thomas. 453 00:23:48.119 --> 00:23:51.359 And I'm not been on the sat with Paul, so 454 00:23:51.440 --> 00:23:53.839 I can't really speak to him as a director and 455 00:23:53.920 --> 00:23:56.759 like what that is. But I mean, you know, so 456 00:23:56.880 --> 00:23:59.920 I just all I can say is from my vantage point. 457 00:24:00.519 --> 00:24:02.839 You know, he obviously knows how to cast. He knows 458 00:24:02.839 --> 00:24:06.640 how to direct an ensemble of actors and and bring 459 00:24:06.680 --> 00:24:10.559 them together in the scene. You know, he's very very gifted. 460 00:24:10.680 --> 00:24:14.680 I mean, it's he does so many things well. People 461 00:24:14.799 --> 00:24:18.920 just don't understand that he you know, he's writing on 462 00:24:19.000 --> 00:24:24.920 a certain level that is highly original and authentic, emotionally authentic, 463 00:24:25.079 --> 00:24:29.519 and he delivers high conflict. He never he doesn't run 464 00:24:29.559 --> 00:24:37.079 from emotional emotional beats and high highly intense emotional situations. 465 00:24:38.440 --> 00:24:40.000 You know, he knows how to cast he has an 466 00:24:40.000 --> 00:24:44.759 incredible he has a Shakespearean sense of comedy and how 467 00:24:44.799 --> 00:24:48.160 he balanced his comedy in his stories. So, I mean, 468 00:24:48.400 --> 00:24:50.880 you know, you're a limited I mean, just in what 469 00:24:50.960 --> 00:24:57.119 I just said, you're eliminating like several major directors that 470 00:24:57.160 --> 00:25:00.119 are in this country, around the world that can't do 471 00:25:00.200 --> 00:25:02.440 all of those things. They do not do all of 472 00:25:02.480 --> 00:25:05.039 those things. They can't they can't do all that. And 473 00:25:05.119 --> 00:25:07.880 you go on, you're not even talking about, you know, 474 00:25:07.920 --> 00:25:11.240 where he puts the camera, You're not even you're not 475 00:25:11.279 --> 00:25:15.519 even talking about how he employs score and sound. I mean, 476 00:25:15.599 --> 00:25:18.319 it's it's it's it's off the charge. So it's like 477 00:25:18.680 --> 00:25:22.400 he has so much of that cupboard. He's literally like 478 00:25:23.480 --> 00:25:25.519 I mean to me, I mean, I I you know, 479 00:25:25.559 --> 00:25:29.240 obviously you know I might biased, you know whatever, But 480 00:25:29.319 --> 00:25:31.920 the fact is is that it's like, I mean, not 481 00:25:32.000 --> 00:25:34.559 anyone who knows anything I think probably would agree with me. 482 00:25:34.599 --> 00:25:37.160 But he is one of our he is he is 483 00:25:37.200 --> 00:25:39.640 the master. I mean, he is one of the greats, 484 00:25:40.480 --> 00:25:42.400 you know. And by the time it's all done, I mean, 485 00:25:42.440 --> 00:25:45.519 he's because he's gonna keep going. He's a young man 486 00:25:45.599 --> 00:25:48.559 and he's gonna keep going. And he's he's got all 487 00:25:48.559 --> 00:25:52.559 his faculties, and Phantom Threat was such a such a 488 00:25:52.599 --> 00:25:55.160 step forward I thought in so many you know, it's 489 00:25:55.400 --> 00:25:58.359 such a mature there was something so mat sure about 490 00:25:58.400 --> 00:26:00.960 the movie, and it was a real, real achievement. And 491 00:26:01.440 --> 00:26:04.599 you know, and obviously the Academy you know, agrees because 492 00:26:04.640 --> 00:26:08.519 they they not only nominated the movie Best Picture, but 493 00:26:08.559 --> 00:26:12.400 also nominated him for directing and and I think that 494 00:26:12.400 --> 00:26:15.039 that was well deserved. They know it, they know that 495 00:26:15.079 --> 00:26:17.960 it was it was, it was truly, it was truly 496 00:26:18.000 --> 00:26:21.599 an achievement and really really wonderful to see. 497 00:26:21.680 --> 00:26:25.279 So, you know, Gordy, that's that's actually one of the 498 00:26:25.279 --> 00:26:28.680 movies I want to see this year. I haven't actually 499 00:26:28.720 --> 00:26:31.119 been you know, either it wasn't playing at the time 500 00:26:31.359 --> 00:26:33.480 I went, or I you know, I haven't been able 501 00:26:33.519 --> 00:26:34.519 to sort of schedule time to go. 502 00:26:34.880 --> 00:26:36.880 It just came out. I mean, it just came out. 503 00:26:37.039 --> 00:26:39.680 I mean it just came out, like I mean, in 504 00:26:39.839 --> 00:26:42.920 la It's been out since the end of the year, 505 00:26:43.079 --> 00:26:45.839 end of twenty seventeen, but it just was released I 506 00:26:45.839 --> 00:26:48.839 think last weekend a lot of places, so a lot 507 00:26:48.839 --> 00:26:51.720 of people have not caught up to that one yet, so, 508 00:26:52.160 --> 00:26:54.359 you know, But so yeah, so but everyone will get 509 00:26:54.400 --> 00:26:57.039 a chance to take it in. But I encourage every 510 00:26:57.279 --> 00:27:01.839 all writers to look at that, you know, to go 511 00:27:02.079 --> 00:27:05.640 to go to that movie and and think about what 512 00:27:05.640 --> 00:27:08.799 what is successful and what is what is effective about 513 00:27:08.839 --> 00:27:13.000 the story telling in the movie, and and and take 514 00:27:13.039 --> 00:27:14.599 it in and I think you'll you know, it's a 515 00:27:14.640 --> 00:27:18.599 good it's a really great movie for screenwriters. You know. 516 00:27:18.680 --> 00:27:19.400 That was my mistake. 517 00:27:19.400 --> 00:27:21.640 Which I actually thought it came out like the end 518 00:27:21.640 --> 00:27:23.599 of November beginning December last year. 519 00:27:23.880 --> 00:27:25.079 So but but no, it didn't. 520 00:27:25.400 --> 00:27:27.920 Yeah, no, I was just gonna say, I I I 521 00:27:27.960 --> 00:27:30.400 sometimes I get like released it's all mixed up, you know, 522 00:27:30.799 --> 00:27:32.920 and uh but yeah, yeah, but but you know, you 523 00:27:33.039 --> 00:27:34.359 made a good point. I want to I want to 524 00:27:34.359 --> 00:27:37.759 actually ask about it. Is you know, when you're a screenwriter, 525 00:27:38.240 --> 00:27:41.119 you know some of the you know, the the ideas 526 00:27:41.119 --> 00:27:43.359 of becoming a better screenwriter or you know, you have 527 00:27:43.359 --> 00:27:46.000 you have to read aize screenplays, and obviously you have 528 00:27:46.039 --> 00:27:49.519 to go to different movies. Do you feel that there's 529 00:27:49.599 --> 00:27:52.119 ever like an advantage of one over the other, Because 530 00:27:52.240 --> 00:27:54.480 I I one time went to a screenwriting seminar and 531 00:27:54.480 --> 00:27:57.720 the person said, you can't judge a you can't watch 532 00:27:57.720 --> 00:28:00.240 a movie and try to dissect it that way because 533 00:28:01.559 --> 00:28:03.160 you don't know what the script even look like. You know, 534 00:28:03.200 --> 00:28:05.880 they actors could be improvising, you know, this scene blah 535 00:28:05.920 --> 00:28:08.000 blah blah, and and I wanted to. 536 00:28:07.960 --> 00:28:09.720 Ask you what do you think of that advice? 537 00:28:13.079 --> 00:28:16.440 Well, I mean, the fact is is that you know, 538 00:28:16.640 --> 00:28:22.240 that sounds I mean, it sounds like, uh, a fairly 539 00:28:22.839 --> 00:28:27.559 reasonable point. But the fact that a screenplay is is 540 00:28:27.880 --> 00:28:31.160 it's it's part of making the film. And I think 541 00:28:31.200 --> 00:28:34.880 that ultimately, because there's a lot of scripts that you know, 542 00:28:35.000 --> 00:28:38.160 so you're so you can't judge the script. Well, if 543 00:28:38.200 --> 00:28:40.680 the script, you know, it doesn't matter in the end. 544 00:28:41.079 --> 00:28:43.920 We need our audience. We're not writing scripts, you know, 545 00:28:44.000 --> 00:28:46.400 we're right, We're trying to make a movie, you know. 546 00:28:46.559 --> 00:28:51.880 So yeah, So, I mean I think ultimately it's it's yeah, 547 00:28:51.920 --> 00:28:54.440 that sounds like, okay, well, you can't judge the movie 548 00:28:55.000 --> 00:28:57.359 based off of this stuff? Are you? Are you saying 549 00:28:57.400 --> 00:28:59.839 you can't judge the screenplay based off of the movie 550 00:29:00.200 --> 00:29:00.960 that we've just seen. 551 00:29:01.359 --> 00:29:01.599 Yeah? 552 00:29:01.599 --> 00:29:05.079 That that's what they were saying was because Okay. 553 00:29:04.839 --> 00:29:07.440 I think generally, I think generally, I mean, I think 554 00:29:07.519 --> 00:29:11.000 I'm sure there's exceptions where people, you know, drop the 555 00:29:11.039 --> 00:29:14.839 ball or the money doesn't happen, or there's bad performances 556 00:29:14.960 --> 00:29:19.279 or you know whatever. There's probably a number of reasons, 557 00:29:19.359 --> 00:29:24.119 but I think it's generally, you know, strong writing, you know, 558 00:29:24.359 --> 00:29:28.359 tends to reflect in a strong movie. It's it's very 559 00:29:28.400 --> 00:29:32.359 difficult to make a great movie from a mediocre script. 560 00:29:32.400 --> 00:29:35.640 It's just, you know, it's just difficult. They are very 561 00:29:35.720 --> 00:29:39.960 much correlated. I don't think there's a lot of variants there. 562 00:29:40.480 --> 00:29:45.519 And yeah, so interesting question though I've never heard that. 563 00:29:46.440 --> 00:29:49.559 Yeah, that's why I always like going and and you know, 564 00:29:49.680 --> 00:29:52.039 just interviewing people like you, Gordy, just you know, people 565 00:29:52.079 --> 00:29:54.119 out there in the field, and and you know, that's 566 00:29:54.119 --> 00:29:55.720 why I want to do this podcast because they get 567 00:29:55.720 --> 00:29:57.799 to hear all these different different takes on different things, 568 00:29:57.799 --> 00:29:59.759 you know what I mean, and you get to share knowledge. 569 00:30:01.160 --> 00:30:03.680 We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor, 570 00:30:07.279 --> 00:30:08.559 and now back to the show. 571 00:30:10.240 --> 00:30:12.759 Because I think that's what technology has done. I mean, honestly, 572 00:30:13.079 --> 00:30:15.000 you know, once I started, it's it's kind of I 573 00:30:15.079 --> 00:30:17.039 kind of had my Aha moment, you know, with all 574 00:30:17.039 --> 00:30:19.720 this technology and the way media is the way it 575 00:30:19.799 --> 00:30:21.839 is now, you know, that's that's what it is. It's 576 00:30:21.880 --> 00:30:24.680 it's sharing knowledge and communicating with each other, just a 577 00:30:24.720 --> 00:30:27.480 lot faster and on a much now it's on a 578 00:30:27.519 --> 00:30:29.920 global scale, because I don't know if there's anybody on 579 00:30:29.920 --> 00:30:31.839 this planet anymore that you can't talk to if you 580 00:30:31.880 --> 00:30:36.680 want to, right, But uh, but yeah, and of course 581 00:30:36.720 --> 00:30:38.480 we've seen with movies you know now it's you know, 582 00:30:39.079 --> 00:30:40.920 you know you can put them on Netflix, Hulu, all 583 00:30:41.000 --> 00:30:42.759 that good stuff, and then you can you know, that 584 00:30:43.039 --> 00:30:45.920 show is distribution. But but I wanted to get back 585 00:30:45.920 --> 00:30:47.920 to to you. Gordia is talking about, you know, your 586 00:30:47.920 --> 00:30:48.680 career and everything. 587 00:30:49.319 --> 00:30:49.480 You know. 588 00:30:49.559 --> 00:30:52.720 You've actually, you know, directed a few movies, You've written 589 00:30:52.759 --> 00:30:54.920 a few movies, so I actually wanted to ask you 590 00:30:54.960 --> 00:30:57.079 about some of those and some of your experiences actually 591 00:30:57.119 --> 00:30:57.680 making those. 592 00:30:58.079 --> 00:31:00.039 So you know, your your first movie. 593 00:30:59.759 --> 00:31:02.680 As you as you mentioned earlier, was Love Liza, So 594 00:31:02.759 --> 00:31:04.160 you know, I wanted to ask you where where was 595 00:31:04.160 --> 00:31:06.720 the impetus for writing that screenplay and how did you 596 00:31:07.359 --> 00:31:10.000 go about being able to direct that movie. 597 00:31:11.599 --> 00:31:15.279 I didn't direct it. Todd So directed it. Yeah, I 598 00:31:15.319 --> 00:31:18.119 wrote it, and I was I was a cab driver 599 00:31:18.200 --> 00:31:22.279 in Chicago and I saw somebody near a gas pump 600 00:31:22.359 --> 00:31:24.960 and I was like, I was like, is that person 601 00:31:25.119 --> 00:31:28.519 sniffing the gas? And I didn't really see them sniffing it, 602 00:31:28.559 --> 00:31:31.000 but I was like, and I was in my cabin. 603 00:31:31.079 --> 00:31:33.240 I wrote that down in an index card. I used 604 00:31:33.279 --> 00:31:35.599 to have all these blank index cards with me. I 605 00:31:35.599 --> 00:31:38.119 wondered where those are. I like, I wish I could 606 00:31:38.119 --> 00:31:40.519 find them. I wonder where they ended up. But I 607 00:31:42.000 --> 00:31:43.759 you know, I had like, yeah, I got like, uh 608 00:31:44.240 --> 00:31:47.559 to find some of that stuff. Anyways, Yeah, I wrote 609 00:31:47.559 --> 00:31:50.759 down a man starts hopping gas and and you know, 610 00:31:50.839 --> 00:31:52.680 and then that was the germ of it where I 611 00:31:52.759 --> 00:31:55.119 was like, well, why would he start doing that? It's 612 00:31:55.160 --> 00:31:58.119 just like, well, what if his wife committed suicide? And 613 00:31:58.160 --> 00:32:01.000 then I started to write that, and and he finds 614 00:32:01.039 --> 00:32:03.880 a note and I found that I didn't plan on that. 615 00:32:04.000 --> 00:32:06.200 He finds the note, and the note ended up driving 616 00:32:06.240 --> 00:32:09.920 the movie. But that's where love WISEA came from. 617 00:32:10.279 --> 00:32:13.559 So you know, sometimes when I find pieces of material 618 00:32:13.559 --> 00:32:15.680 that I've like written on an index card or back 619 00:32:15.720 --> 00:32:18.000 of a receipt or something, I'll look at it Gordy 620 00:32:18.039 --> 00:32:21.000 and I go, what the hell was I trying to say? 621 00:32:21.759 --> 00:32:24.480 Yeah, yeah, that doesn't happen to me too much anymore 622 00:32:24.480 --> 00:32:27.079 but sometimes yeah, I'm like I'll look back on something 623 00:32:27.160 --> 00:32:30.240 I write down in a little idea file. Usually I write, 624 00:32:30.440 --> 00:32:32.119 I get the idea, and I put it on like 625 00:32:32.160 --> 00:32:34.119 a little document, and I just you know, I have 626 00:32:34.160 --> 00:32:36.880 so many of them, and but I usually I know 627 00:32:37.039 --> 00:32:39.799 myself that I better explain it so that I can 628 00:32:39.839 --> 00:32:41.920 look back on it and know exactly what it is, 629 00:32:42.160 --> 00:32:45.039 because if I just write down macaroni and cheese, it's like, 630 00:32:45.160 --> 00:32:49.079 I'm like, what the oh was that idea? You know? 631 00:32:49.200 --> 00:32:51.519 You got to like looks like, oh what was that? 632 00:32:51.759 --> 00:32:56.799 It's like so yeah, But I think we've all had 633 00:32:56.799 --> 00:32:59.240 that experience of looking back at something we jotted down 634 00:32:59.279 --> 00:33:03.079 and been like, Okay, I guess that one's gone. 635 00:33:03.720 --> 00:33:06.559 You know, I've gotten into the habit of using my 636 00:33:06.640 --> 00:33:09.119 phone now. I use I use like ever note to 637 00:33:09.400 --> 00:33:12.599 to take down all yeah, because it helps you organize things. 638 00:33:12.640 --> 00:33:15.480 And also you're not like counting around tons of sheets 639 00:33:15.480 --> 00:33:16.440 of paper. 640 00:33:17.000 --> 00:33:21.160 Yeah yeah, yeah, that's that's electronic. You know. That's the 641 00:33:21.200 --> 00:33:23.480 technology that we have now, is that. Yeah, you don't 642 00:33:23.519 --> 00:33:26.440 really have index cards anymore. You just I just usually 643 00:33:26.519 --> 00:33:28.799 just write an email to myself, send it to myself, 644 00:33:28.839 --> 00:33:33.440 and then it ends up on my little movie folder 645 00:33:33.759 --> 00:33:37.680 idea lists for the year, and then uh, and I'm 646 00:33:37.720 --> 00:33:40.359 backing it up every couple of days, the whole computer. 647 00:33:40.599 --> 00:33:43.440 So I got creak. Sure I have everything. So it's 648 00:33:43.480 --> 00:33:46.799 all it's all different from back in the days twenty 649 00:33:46.880 --> 00:33:48.839 years ago when I came up with the idea for 650 00:33:48.920 --> 00:33:49.440 Love Lives. 651 00:33:51.359 --> 00:33:52.519 And I find it interesting too. 652 00:33:52.559 --> 00:33:55.000 Gordy, you were you were a cab driver in Chicago 653 00:33:55.079 --> 00:33:56.920 and you were just you know, I guess in between fares, 654 00:33:56.960 --> 00:33:59.039 you were just you know, on index cards. You would 655 00:33:59.079 --> 00:34:02.079 just sort of outline brainstorming ideas that you could put 656 00:34:02.079 --> 00:34:02.720 into a screenplat. 657 00:34:02.720 --> 00:34:07.480 Oh yeah, oh yeah, yeah, absolutely, I mean that's the thing. 658 00:34:07.559 --> 00:34:09.159 I mean, you know, it just that was what I 659 00:34:09.199 --> 00:34:11.519 was doing. And I you know, to this day, it's like, 660 00:34:11.639 --> 00:34:14.199 you know, I mean, you know, it's like anywhere. 661 00:34:13.880 --> 00:34:16.679 An idea will come up. But at that time, you know, 662 00:34:16.920 --> 00:34:19.039 that's what that's what my day job was. It was 663 00:34:19.039 --> 00:34:23.280 a whole nother experience, you know. And I drove a 664 00:34:23.320 --> 00:34:26.320 cab in Chicago for three and a half years and 665 00:34:26.320 --> 00:34:30.039 and and that was yeah, I can still remember exactly 666 00:34:30.239 --> 00:34:33.400 the gas station that that happened, and and it was 667 00:34:33.440 --> 00:34:35.719 just one of the random things it was like and 668 00:34:35.719 --> 00:34:38.039 and and I just decided to go with it. You know, 669 00:34:38.239 --> 00:34:41.239 it was an idea, and you know, I just remember that. 670 00:34:41.320 --> 00:34:44.079 It's like sometimes you sit there and go, Okay, what 671 00:34:44.159 --> 00:34:48.400 ideas should I work on? And and you know, any 672 00:34:48.440 --> 00:34:51.760 idea that you pick, you're gonna make great, you know 673 00:34:51.840 --> 00:34:53.800 what I mean. So it's like it's like, I'm like, 674 00:34:53.880 --> 00:34:55.679 don't be so worried about whether or not this is 675 00:34:55.679 --> 00:34:57.960 the right idea, because you're going to work on it 676 00:34:58.039 --> 00:35:00.480 and it's gonna be awesome, you know, I mean, so 677 00:35:00.960 --> 00:35:05.320 you'll make everyone everything work. And so it's like it's 678 00:35:05.360 --> 00:35:08.119 such a and I forget that because I'll be like, 679 00:35:08.840 --> 00:35:11.519 you know, like I don't know. And it's like even 680 00:35:11.840 --> 00:35:15.320 because if I was forced to write my worst idea, 681 00:35:16.239 --> 00:35:18.480 I would I would make it great, you know what 682 00:35:18.519 --> 00:35:20.519 I mean. I would just be like, but one, I'd 683 00:35:20.519 --> 00:35:21.960 be like, Okay, I got to write on that, and 684 00:35:21.960 --> 00:35:24.280 then I would lean into it and I would start to, 685 00:35:24.480 --> 00:35:27.119 you know, my imagination would kick in and I'd start 686 00:35:27.159 --> 00:35:29.199 to come up with ideas. You know. 687 00:35:29.559 --> 00:35:33.719 Stephen Pressfield once said that you could if you can 688 00:35:33.800 --> 00:35:36.480 get like a sentence out, you can draw a whole 689 00:35:36.559 --> 00:35:38.800 novel just from that one sentence you can pull just 690 00:35:38.840 --> 00:35:41.400 from that one absolutely, and and and he said, I 691 00:35:42.119 --> 00:35:45.440 oh sorry, go ahead, no, no, no, I'm sorry. I was 692 00:35:45.480 --> 00:35:48.280 just gonna say that he actually wrote the legend of 693 00:35:48.280 --> 00:35:50.800 Backer Vance just from that one sentence. He had like 694 00:35:50.840 --> 00:35:53.039 this moment where he kind of jotted down the sentence 695 00:35:53.320 --> 00:35:55.119 and then he has pulled the whole novel from. 696 00:35:54.920 --> 00:35:59.679 That, right, I mean, you know, and that's it's you know, 697 00:35:59.800 --> 00:36:02.039 do you usually like one little idea, a few little 698 00:36:02.039 --> 00:36:04.800 words you jot down, and then it's like the idea 699 00:36:04.920 --> 00:36:08.199 is there, and and and then you're off to the races. 700 00:36:08.199 --> 00:36:10.920 And but you know, I've done that in classes too, 701 00:36:11.000 --> 00:36:14.400 where it's like I have people, you know, brainstorm like 702 00:36:15.360 --> 00:36:19.320 ten ideas for scenes, and then I ask them pick 703 00:36:19.400 --> 00:36:23.800 the worst idea out of all the ones, and that's 704 00:36:23.840 --> 00:36:26.199 the one I have them right on, and to show 705 00:36:26.280 --> 00:36:30.440 them that basically, any anything you can make anything work, 706 00:36:30.840 --> 00:36:33.639 you know, you do not have to It does not 707 00:36:33.679 --> 00:36:35.400 have to be the best idea is not have to be. 708 00:36:35.679 --> 00:36:38.679 I mean that's really why Ford any kind of writing challenges, 709 00:36:39.199 --> 00:36:41.599 any kind of forty eight hour film. That's where that 710 00:36:41.800 --> 00:36:46.320 comes from. It's because it's for it's people can give 711 00:36:46.719 --> 00:36:51.199 given restrictions, you know, they can still have fun and 712 00:36:51.559 --> 00:36:53.079 be creative and everything else. 713 00:36:54.480 --> 00:36:57.199 Yeah, and again it's I think it's just when you're 714 00:36:57.199 --> 00:36:59.679 having fun, because I think that I think that's a 715 00:36:59.679 --> 00:37:01.639 lot of things that people forget. But I mean I've 716 00:37:01.679 --> 00:37:03.760 been there too, Gordy, where I'm like, you know, I 717 00:37:04.119 --> 00:37:06.400 completely forget this is supposed to be fun, and it 718 00:37:06.480 --> 00:37:09.119 becomes like so definitely serious, and you start kind of 719 00:37:09.599 --> 00:37:11.760 doubting yourself along the way, and then it becomes a 720 00:37:11.760 --> 00:37:13.320 little more, a little more, and then by the end 721 00:37:13.360 --> 00:37:14.880 you're like, this whole thing sucks. I gotta get rid 722 00:37:14.880 --> 00:37:17.519 of this whole screenplay. I gotta star it all over again. 723 00:37:18.000 --> 00:37:20.440 And then you can. It becomes a habit that you 724 00:37:20.239 --> 00:37:21.800 have that you have to break. 725 00:37:23.199 --> 00:37:26.559 Well, every every screenplay. You know. It's like, you know, 726 00:37:26.760 --> 00:37:30.840 any kind of master screenwriter or filmmaker you know will 727 00:37:30.880 --> 00:37:34.239 tell you it's like anything you're working on, you're gonna 728 00:37:34.239 --> 00:37:36.400 get to a wall. You're gonna get to a place 729 00:37:36.400 --> 00:37:39.519 where you're like, this is awful, and I'm bored as 730 00:37:39.519 --> 00:37:41.400 hell and I want to start something else, and there's 731 00:37:41.480 --> 00:37:44.559 this has so many problems and I don't know how 732 00:37:44.559 --> 00:37:47.239 to solve them. And and this is like taking forever, 733 00:37:48.039 --> 00:37:51.480 you know, I mean, it's true despair. And and the 734 00:37:51.519 --> 00:37:53.400 thing is now I know that like when I get 735 00:37:53.440 --> 00:37:55.559 to that place, I'm like, okay, I'm making that way, 736 00:37:56.320 --> 00:37:58.679 Like I know, it's like, okay, I'm actually halfway through, 737 00:37:58.800 --> 00:38:02.000 you know, like because you are always going to hit 738 00:38:02.039 --> 00:38:04.760 that spot and it's like and you are, and you 739 00:38:04.920 --> 00:38:07.199 never get oh man, this is like a this is 740 00:38:07.360 --> 00:38:10.800 so awesome. You know. It's never like that. You always 741 00:38:10.800 --> 00:38:13.119 get to a place where like I'm I hate every page, 742 00:38:13.559 --> 00:38:16.159 I'm like all this stuff. I'm sick of reading this thing. 743 00:38:16.199 --> 00:38:19.119 I'm like, you have that feeling, and it's like in 744 00:38:19.239 --> 00:38:22.559 that and when you have that feeling, it's like, oh, well, 745 00:38:22.599 --> 00:38:26.840 you're getting there, You're almost You're you're probably rounding second. 746 00:38:26.920 --> 00:38:29.280 Just keep going and then suddenly it will come back 747 00:38:29.320 --> 00:38:31.599 and you'll fall in love with it again, and you'll 748 00:38:31.599 --> 00:38:34.199 come up with new ideas and your problem you're you know, 749 00:38:34.440 --> 00:38:37.320 solve these problems, and you'll have another draft and then 750 00:38:37.360 --> 00:38:39.519 you'll start and then you'll be like okay, and you'll 751 00:38:39.519 --> 00:38:41.559 own it all over again, and then you'll really have 752 00:38:41.679 --> 00:38:45.360 something special. But we have to fight through, you know. 753 00:38:45.440 --> 00:38:50.719 The boredom, the despair, you know, just the just the 754 00:38:51.320 --> 00:38:54.480 loathing of the script. You know, at times it comes 755 00:38:54.519 --> 00:38:57.519 up where you're just like, oh God, like I'm so 756 00:38:57.559 --> 00:38:59.599 sick of looking at this and thinking about it. I 757 00:38:59.639 --> 00:39:03.239 think it's sucks or whatever. And you know, you're like 758 00:39:03.320 --> 00:39:04.280 four drafts. 759 00:39:04.039 --> 00:39:08.639 And you know, yeah it yeah, just even in the 760 00:39:08.920 --> 00:39:11.400 outlining stages, you know, sometimes you're like, oh my god, 761 00:39:11.440 --> 00:39:13.119 what the hell, what the hell was I thinking? 762 00:39:13.519 --> 00:39:15.280 And uh, you know, yeah. 763 00:39:15.320 --> 00:39:17.320 One of the things that I've learned too over the 764 00:39:17.400 --> 00:39:20.760 years is just like little tips or so to speak, 765 00:39:20.800 --> 00:39:22.039 or if you want to call them a hack. 766 00:39:22.519 --> 00:39:24.719 Uh you know that's a popular word now, Gordy hack. 767 00:39:25.119 --> 00:39:26.639 So so everything to hack. 768 00:39:26.880 --> 00:39:29.880 So one thing I've learned is, uh, is if you 769 00:39:30.280 --> 00:39:33.039 to start an argument, uh, you know, have one, you 770 00:39:33.079 --> 00:39:35.480 know obviously that's where conflict comes from, Right, I want 771 00:39:35.519 --> 00:39:39.159 a Uh you want a and uh we each have 772 00:39:39.159 --> 00:39:40.519 a different way of how we're going to get it 773 00:39:40.639 --> 00:39:42.039 or maybe you know what I mean, and then which 774 00:39:42.320 --> 00:39:45.239 we both need this thing, And that's where this conflict 775 00:39:45.239 --> 00:39:48.159 comes from, is that you know you want something and 776 00:39:48.199 --> 00:39:48.760 you can't get it. 777 00:39:48.800 --> 00:39:50.000 I want something and I can't get it. 778 00:39:50.239 --> 00:39:52.400 So if you started you know, starting an argument, and 779 00:39:52.840 --> 00:39:55.559 and that's why I make little notes where I'm going 780 00:39:55.599 --> 00:39:57.880 back through stuff and just saying myself. 781 00:39:59.119 --> 00:40:01.599 We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor, 782 00:40:05.239 --> 00:40:06.519 and now back to the show. 783 00:40:08.559 --> 00:40:08.960 This is. 784 00:40:09.400 --> 00:40:11.559 You know, maybe this is something that I can do better. 785 00:40:11.559 --> 00:40:13.440 And then you know, like Stephen King once said, if 786 00:40:13.480 --> 00:40:14.920 you if you take a draft or something, put it 787 00:40:14.960 --> 00:40:16.760 in your drawer for two weeks or whatever, go back 788 00:40:16.760 --> 00:40:19.119 to it and that's when you can look at it 789 00:40:19.159 --> 00:40:20.159 again with fresh eyes. 790 00:40:21.480 --> 00:40:25.239 Yeah, it's great out time changes things and you can 791 00:40:25.280 --> 00:40:27.800 look at stuff and be like, oh yeah, you know, 792 00:40:28.400 --> 00:40:30.519 and you can definitely you know, there's a lot of 793 00:40:30.519 --> 00:40:32.920 that stuff. But yeah, that's great advice. 794 00:40:34.639 --> 00:40:37.639 So you know, Gody As you took Love Liza and 795 00:40:37.679 --> 00:40:39.800 you were able to write a full screenplay, you know, 796 00:40:40.079 --> 00:40:42.079 how how did you go about you know, just sort 797 00:40:42.079 --> 00:40:44.599 of even pitching it and you know, getting it into 798 00:40:44.599 --> 00:40:46.119 the right hands to get it produced. 799 00:40:49.440 --> 00:40:53.320 Well, you know, it was a long process. But you know, 800 00:40:53.519 --> 00:40:56.599 my brother read it and like I said, he had 801 00:40:56.599 --> 00:40:59.039 not started shooting Boogie Knights yet, so he wasn't a 802 00:40:59.079 --> 00:41:02.679 movie star or anything like that. He just young and 803 00:41:03.679 --> 00:41:06.079 he read it and he loved it. You know, and 804 00:41:06.119 --> 00:41:08.320 I didn't wasn't giving it to him to be like, hey, 805 00:41:08.480 --> 00:41:10.480 you want to do this, but he wanted to play 806 00:41:10.480 --> 00:41:14.440 the guy, and and that's what it is. So we 807 00:41:14.480 --> 00:41:17.280 attached he was a task. We got a director, we 808 00:41:17.320 --> 00:41:21.119 got Todd Deliso, and then we started to a couple 809 00:41:21.199 --> 00:41:25.039 of producers, and then we started to talk to people 810 00:41:25.119 --> 00:41:28.880 that could add access to money and uh find you know, 811 00:41:29.239 --> 00:41:32.840 producers that you know, could raise raise actually the money 812 00:41:32.840 --> 00:41:36.320 to make the movie. And so it took a you know, 813 00:41:37.039 --> 00:41:40.760 it didn't take that on maybe four years from from 814 00:41:40.800 --> 00:41:44.480 like the whole period of like starting to think about 815 00:41:44.519 --> 00:41:46.840 it and people looking at it, you know, and then 816 00:41:47.440 --> 00:41:53.119 and then then we found some folks and and made it, 817 00:41:53.320 --> 00:41:56.280 you know, and got was able to get Kathy Bates involved, 818 00:41:56.400 --> 00:42:00.000 and and that was how we we got the money. 819 00:42:00.239 --> 00:42:05.880 It was a very low budget at the time. And 820 00:42:05.880 --> 00:42:08.119 and then you know, it got into Sundance. You know, 821 00:42:08.280 --> 00:42:11.920 people responded at Sundance to it, and it got to 822 00:42:12.000 --> 00:42:16.280 Sundance and and then it was bought by Sony Classics 823 00:42:18.519 --> 00:42:25.119 and they distributed. So yeah, so that was that's sort 824 00:42:25.119 --> 00:42:27.039 of the journey. And I think it's I mean, somebody 825 00:42:27.079 --> 00:42:30.039 told me it's on HBO right now, so I think 826 00:42:30.079 --> 00:42:32.079 if you have HBO you'll be able to watch it. 827 00:42:32.280 --> 00:42:38.159 And obviously it's on Amazon for rental, but it's but 828 00:42:38.239 --> 00:42:42.280 Sony ended up Sony Classics. The same guys that were 829 00:42:42.320 --> 00:42:45.360 involved with Love Wise Are, you know, are still running 830 00:42:46.199 --> 00:42:49.119 Sony Classics, you know, and uh call Me by Your 831 00:42:49.199 --> 00:42:52.639 Name is a Sony Classics acquisition that they picked up 832 00:42:53.199 --> 00:42:57.199 before Sundance. And yeah, so you. 833 00:42:57.119 --> 00:43:00.159 Know, go do you mentioned Sundance and you mentioned, uh know, 834 00:43:00.440 --> 00:43:03.280 call Me by your Name and also you know, with 835 00:43:03.119 --> 00:43:06.519 the Love Liza. I saw an article and I don't 836 00:43:06.519 --> 00:43:08.440 know if you saw this yet in the La Times 837 00:43:08.519 --> 00:43:12.079 that says the SPECS script is dead, and what they 838 00:43:12.119 --> 00:43:14.679 mean is is that Hollywood only wants to make the 839 00:43:14.719 --> 00:43:17.880 big budget blockbuster movies you know, based on you know, 840 00:43:17.960 --> 00:43:21.519 superheroes and things like that, or or remakes of classic 841 00:43:21.559 --> 00:43:24.079 movies and stuff like that, you know, you know, and 842 00:43:24.360 --> 00:43:26.719 that the SPECS scripts now all good at Sundance. So 843 00:43:26.719 --> 00:43:29.039 if you want to make an original movie, you know, 844 00:43:29.320 --> 00:43:31.400 the place to debut it, to show it and get 845 00:43:31.400 --> 00:43:33.000 it bought, et cetera is Sundance. 846 00:43:33.360 --> 00:43:33.519 You know. 847 00:43:33.599 --> 00:43:36.480 I don't know if you've read that article, but but 848 00:43:36.519 --> 00:43:38.840 do you do you agree with that in today's current 849 00:43:39.079 --> 00:43:43.000 market for screenwriters that you know, Sundances is where you know, 850 00:43:43.039 --> 00:43:44.840 independent movies really go. 851 00:43:46.440 --> 00:43:46.800 Well. 852 00:43:46.880 --> 00:43:51.239 I mean, Sundance is an incredible market. I mean, you 853 00:43:51.320 --> 00:43:53.960 get into Sundance, I mean, all eyeballs are there for 854 00:43:54.039 --> 00:43:58.239 acquisitions and you can, you know, pick up a movie 855 00:43:58.320 --> 00:44:05.679 that can do considerable performance at the box office and 856 00:44:05.719 --> 00:44:09.800 also could win Academy Awards. So you know, obviously it's 857 00:44:09.559 --> 00:44:13.599 a it's a great launch pad now, you know. I mean, look, 858 00:44:14.719 --> 00:44:17.079 if you write a great screenplay, you know you're gonna 859 00:44:17.079 --> 00:44:18.800 be able to do a lot of things, you know, 860 00:44:19.079 --> 00:44:23.079 and that's never going to change the idea of Yeah, 861 00:44:23.320 --> 00:44:27.119 the what was happening in the nineties. The market's changed, 862 00:44:27.679 --> 00:44:31.880 there's uh the you know how they but you know, 863 00:44:32.440 --> 00:44:35.599 but the nineties were also different from the forties, you 864 00:44:35.639 --> 00:44:38.880 know what I mean. So it's not like some you know, 865 00:44:39.199 --> 00:44:42.599 like some evil thing has happened. It's just the market changed. 866 00:44:42.960 --> 00:44:48.440 Storytellers can go different places, but you obviously can you know, 867 00:44:48.719 --> 00:44:51.440 if you write something special, you know you might be 868 00:44:51.480 --> 00:44:54.039 able to get you know, involved in television and television 869 00:44:54.159 --> 00:44:57.880 episodic is obviously sort of that there's another golden age 870 00:44:59.320 --> 00:45:03.800 U right now in terms of you know, storytelling and television. 871 00:45:04.159 --> 00:45:06.880 But you know, but then you can also you know, 872 00:45:07.039 --> 00:45:10.840 write a get Out or write a Lady Bird. Obviously 873 00:45:10.920 --> 00:45:15.199 these people have access and everything, and there's certain you know, 874 00:45:15.280 --> 00:45:17.960 opportunities that might have been afforded Greta Gerwig or whatever. 875 00:45:18.199 --> 00:45:21.199 But the fact is is that you know, three billboards, 876 00:45:21.679 --> 00:45:25.559 you know, these are all movies that are doing doing well. 877 00:45:25.639 --> 00:45:28.440 They're going to do well. No one who is involved 878 00:45:28.440 --> 00:45:30.800 with making them is on is like, wow, I wish 879 00:45:30.800 --> 00:45:32.920 I hadn't have been involved to get Out. I mean, 880 00:45:32.960 --> 00:45:34.960 it's like no way and get Out was you know, 881 00:45:35.000 --> 00:45:37.679 a low lower budget, did not have any kind of 882 00:45:37.719 --> 00:45:41.079 like Avengers type of budget, and it was. But it 883 00:45:41.119 --> 00:45:44.719 all goes back to the writing, you know, and you know, 884 00:45:44.840 --> 00:45:49.599 so just you know, people find you know, writers, and 885 00:45:49.719 --> 00:45:53.559 people want to find like well spec market or you know, 886 00:45:53.719 --> 00:45:57.000 make some you know, ideas about and the bottom line 887 00:45:57.039 --> 00:46:01.639 is it's ultimately an excuse not to do like to 888 00:46:01.960 --> 00:46:04.199 not to deal with the truth. The truth is is 889 00:46:04.199 --> 00:46:07.840 that we have to do what we were talking about earlier. 890 00:46:08.000 --> 00:46:10.079 We have to fight through the boredom to just spare 891 00:46:10.599 --> 00:46:13.400 keep working on our drafts and make them so good 892 00:46:14.000 --> 00:46:17.039 that it blows people away. I mean I got my 893 00:46:17.119 --> 00:46:19.559 short got into Sundance two years ago and got me 894 00:46:19.639 --> 00:46:25.679 a job, like a feature writing job shortly thereafter. And 895 00:46:25.760 --> 00:46:27.519 it was all because of the work that I put 896 00:46:27.519 --> 00:46:30.480 into the short. And I made the short as best 897 00:46:30.559 --> 00:46:33.920 I knew. I just made it best I could, and 898 00:46:34.159 --> 00:46:36.960 you know, and it worked. You know, it got into 899 00:46:37.039 --> 00:46:40.199 Sundayance and people saw it and and land and you know, 900 00:46:40.280 --> 00:46:44.159 it led to a really nice you know, it helped 901 00:46:44.239 --> 00:46:47.239 it can help my career and then moved everything forward. 902 00:46:47.280 --> 00:46:50.199 And you know, somebody would be like, oh, how you 903 00:46:50.199 --> 00:46:52.599 know it didn't follow any kind of formula or anything 904 00:46:52.639 --> 00:46:55.840 else in terms of I just decided to make you know, 905 00:46:55.880 --> 00:46:57.679 I was like, I want to make the short to 906 00:46:57.760 --> 00:46:59.920 kind of show people I can direct, and and then 907 00:47:00.159 --> 00:47:03.480 up doing things that I did not anticipate or expect. 908 00:47:04.039 --> 00:47:06.400 And but I but the thing that I did plan 909 00:47:06.480 --> 00:47:10.079 on doing was making it as best I could. And 910 00:47:10.159 --> 00:47:13.920 so everybody, and I know, people were like, well whatever, 911 00:47:14.400 --> 00:47:17.239 you know, yeah, sure right, it worked really hard on 912 00:47:17.320 --> 00:47:21.039 your screen place that's really great advice. Well you know what, 913 00:47:21.519 --> 00:47:24.599 that's what happened. I mean, it's like where do you 914 00:47:24.599 --> 00:47:28.039 think get out any of these movies, anything that's like 915 00:47:28.280 --> 00:47:31.039 comes out of nowhere, any you know, anything that like 916 00:47:31.119 --> 00:47:33.199 it's like interesting, Where do you think it comes from? 917 00:47:33.280 --> 00:47:36.920 It comes from people like picking up, you know, opening 918 00:47:36.960 --> 00:47:40.079 it up, getting going with their movie, working really hard 919 00:47:40.119 --> 00:47:44.440 on it, continuing to take notes, continuing to push it forward. 920 00:47:45.079 --> 00:47:48.199 That's that's stuff that's never that's that has not changed, 921 00:47:48.840 --> 00:47:51.719 you know. And yeah, the idea, maybe it's a good 922 00:47:51.800 --> 00:47:54.880 thing that like, oh, you can't just put together a 923 00:47:54.960 --> 00:47:59.559 high concept and the movie movie. You know, the studios 924 00:47:59.599 --> 00:48:01.559 are so scared somebody else is going to get it, 925 00:48:01.639 --> 00:48:04.599 so they buy something and it's like sort of half 926 00:48:04.679 --> 00:48:06.800 baked and it's not even that great, and then you 927 00:48:06.800 --> 00:48:08.639 don't even get to really work on it after they 928 00:48:08.760 --> 00:48:11.559 bought it. I mean, you know, maybe that's not really 929 00:48:12.320 --> 00:48:15.400 what we want, you know, Maybe we want a system 930 00:48:15.719 --> 00:48:19.320 that is like that is exactly like that. It's like right, 931 00:48:19.400 --> 00:48:23.519 a big sick right right, write something like three billboards, 932 00:48:23.920 --> 00:48:27.239 come up with something creative, righte, create a dramatic story, 933 00:48:27.559 --> 00:48:31.360 write a really funny comedy, rte a really scary horror movie, 934 00:48:31.840 --> 00:48:34.760 and just make it the best you can, you know. 935 00:48:34.960 --> 00:48:37.679 And I think the market's going to find you anyways, 936 00:48:37.840 --> 00:48:41.320 and it might be better than if they bought your 937 00:48:41.599 --> 00:48:46.320 high concept you know a thing fifteen years ago or 938 00:48:46.360 --> 00:48:49.840 twenty years ago and did that you know. 939 00:48:50.800 --> 00:48:53.039 Yeah, and the movie you took the Sundance was dog 940 00:48:53.079 --> 00:48:53.639 Ball correct. 941 00:48:55.239 --> 00:48:57.239 Yeah, yeah, that was a short I had a couple 942 00:48:57.199 --> 00:49:00.960 of years ago that I that I had there. That's 943 00:49:00.960 --> 00:49:04.440 also that's on Amazon Prime. So if anybody you know 944 00:49:04.559 --> 00:49:07.400 wants to see it, it's it's on Amazon Prime. So 945 00:49:07.400 --> 00:49:09.679 if you have Amazon Prime, you can watch it for free. 946 00:49:10.400 --> 00:49:11.880 And I'll make sure to link to that in the 947 00:49:11.960 --> 00:49:12.840 show notes as well. 948 00:49:13.440 --> 00:49:15.480 So yeah, yeah, just you know, so if you're like, 949 00:49:15.639 --> 00:49:17.199 you're like, I want to see if this guy that's 950 00:49:17.239 --> 00:49:19.199 what he's talking about, I would see his crappy short, 951 00:49:19.440 --> 00:49:22.079 I'm gonna go. I'm gonna go check out his short. 952 00:49:22.119 --> 00:49:22.880 See if it's good. 953 00:49:22.960 --> 00:49:27.000 Man, I want to check out on you Gordy Hoffman. 954 00:49:27.719 --> 00:49:29.599 So yeah, yeah, you gotta you gotta check out you 955 00:49:29.679 --> 00:49:32.400 gotta watch dog Bowling Man. See like, come on, man, 956 00:49:32.760 --> 00:49:34.239 check it out. It's nothing like you know, you go 957 00:49:34.280 --> 00:49:36.599 and check out his movie. You're like, oh man, he 958 00:49:36.840 --> 00:49:40.039 really but I think people are like dog Will's good. 959 00:49:40.239 --> 00:49:43.280 It's got some nice, great actor. I mean, the star 960 00:49:43.360 --> 00:49:45.960 of is excellent, and I think people enjoy it. 961 00:49:46.920 --> 00:49:50.400 Yeah, you know, I remember, you know, I saw you 962 00:49:50.400 --> 00:49:52.800 are crowdfunding for that, and I just wanted to ask Gordy, 963 00:49:53.280 --> 00:49:55.480 you know really quickly, you know what were your experience 964 00:49:55.559 --> 00:49:56.199 is crowdfunding? 965 00:49:56.199 --> 00:49:56.840 That movie did? 966 00:49:57.039 --> 00:49:58.679 Was crowdfunding what you thought it would be? It was 967 00:49:58.719 --> 00:50:00.000 a little harder, a little easier. 968 00:50:01.679 --> 00:50:04.199 We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor, 969 00:50:07.800 --> 00:50:09.079 and now back to the show. 970 00:50:11.039 --> 00:50:13.599 Oh man, it's like, I mean, for somebody with low 971 00:50:13.639 --> 00:50:16.440 self esteem, I mean, it is brutal. You gotta you 972 00:50:16.480 --> 00:50:19.239 gotta like you know what, you gotta ask people for stuff. 973 00:50:19.599 --> 00:50:22.039 It's like, oh, I mean it really but you know 974 00:50:22.119 --> 00:50:24.480 what it was like, I was, I you know, I 975 00:50:25.679 --> 00:50:27.679 you know, I stumbled onto a lot of things that 976 00:50:27.719 --> 00:50:30.239 you do well. I mean, it's a whole nother podcast, 977 00:50:30.280 --> 00:50:33.119 but you know I I you know, I found my 978 00:50:33.159 --> 00:50:35.960 way through it and people. I had a lot of 979 00:50:35.960 --> 00:50:38.719 people that wanted to help me and I so I 980 00:50:38.760 --> 00:50:41.639 had a successful run. And then I hadn't finished the 981 00:50:41.679 --> 00:50:44.519 script yet, and I like, I raised all this money 982 00:50:44.519 --> 00:50:46.599 and I was like, oh no, now this has to 983 00:50:46.639 --> 00:50:49.480 be good and talk about pressure. I was like whoa. 984 00:50:49.639 --> 00:50:52.320 And but then I you know, then I kept it 985 00:50:52.360 --> 00:50:54.559 was great. I mean, you know, I really made you 986 00:50:54.599 --> 00:50:58.039 committed to like making a great movie. It was an 987 00:50:58.079 --> 00:51:02.960 excellent way to fund the movie. It worked. I mean, man, 988 00:51:03.119 --> 00:51:06.760 I mean think about all the kickstarter campaigns or crowdfunding 989 00:51:06.840 --> 00:51:10.119 campaigns you've been involved with, and you know, and fortunately 990 00:51:10.159 --> 00:51:13.280 for my backers, you know, they backed a film that 991 00:51:13.360 --> 00:51:15.840 went to sundancee. You know, so they were like they 992 00:51:15.880 --> 00:51:17.960 were like, wow, this is awesome. And then it went 993 00:51:18.280 --> 00:51:20.119 and then it went. You know, I played all over 994 00:51:20.159 --> 00:51:22.440 the country and you know, so people were able to 995 00:51:22.639 --> 00:51:25.199 most a lot of people that backed it were able 996 00:51:25.239 --> 00:51:27.719 to see it in a theater, like at a festival, 997 00:51:28.119 --> 00:51:30.800 and and I was at a lot of those festivals. 998 00:51:30.800 --> 00:51:33.639 So it was really it was super fun and and 999 00:51:34.440 --> 00:51:36.639 but yeah, the Kickstarter was a lot of work. I mean, 1000 00:51:36.679 --> 00:51:38.800 you know, it's again it's a whole other podcast. But 1001 00:51:39.360 --> 00:51:42.039 you know, there's a lot there's a few few tips 1002 00:51:42.039 --> 00:51:47.079 for that. But if you ever want to do a Kickstarter, uh, like, 1003 00:51:47.079 --> 00:51:49.519 like as I did two campaigns with dog Ball, one 1004 00:51:49.559 --> 00:51:52.400 at the beginning, one at the end. And yeah, I've 1005 00:51:52.440 --> 00:51:55.000 got a raft of experience about that and I always 1006 00:51:55.679 --> 00:51:57.960 always want to share that because I think there's a 1007 00:51:57.960 --> 00:52:01.559 lot of things that people do and they can avoid 1008 00:52:02.199 --> 00:52:05.880 and and I think it's a great way to find 1009 00:52:05.920 --> 00:52:09.159 the money to make a short film and show people 1010 00:52:09.159 --> 00:52:12.079 that you can write and show people you can direct, 1011 00:52:12.239 --> 00:52:16.519 and you know, I think it's Kickstarter is fantastic. But 1012 00:52:17.119 --> 00:52:19.920 there are some things that I think people get, you know, 1013 00:52:19.960 --> 00:52:23.159 and it usually goes ultimate you know, in many ways, 1014 00:52:23.159 --> 00:52:27.039 it goes back to you know, something that bogs writers down, 1015 00:52:27.599 --> 00:52:30.639 bogs filmmakers down, is a lack of patience. I think 1016 00:52:30.679 --> 00:52:34.840 people are impatient to launch their campaign. They're impatient to shoot, 1017 00:52:35.239 --> 00:52:37.480 so they don't want to like do another draft, they 1018 00:52:37.519 --> 00:52:39.800 don't want to write another movie. They want to get 1019 00:52:39.800 --> 00:52:42.719 to shooting. And I think with Kickstarter, it's like you 1020 00:52:42.800 --> 00:52:44.800 just kind of want to launch it. You know, You're 1021 00:52:44.840 --> 00:52:46.920 like I want to Okay, we're ready, you know, and 1022 00:52:46.960 --> 00:52:49.000 then you launch it and you know, you don't really 1023 00:52:49.039 --> 00:52:51.320 have your ducks in a row. You're not really ready, 1024 00:52:51.800 --> 00:52:53.679 and then all of a sudden it's like, oh, you know, 1025 00:52:53.800 --> 00:52:57.639 like I'm like, no one is no one, I don't 1026 00:52:57.679 --> 00:52:59.599 really I'm not really getting the money I thought I 1027 00:52:59.679 --> 00:53:02.280 was gonna you know, And I think it goes back 1028 00:53:02.320 --> 00:53:07.000 to having some patience and you know, preparing and doing 1029 00:53:07.039 --> 00:53:09.719 the right work and getting it all ready and doing 1030 00:53:09.800 --> 00:53:12.119 exactly what you would do if you were, you know, 1031 00:53:12.199 --> 00:53:13.960 wanting to shoot a script, you know, just taking the 1032 00:53:14.000 --> 00:53:14.639 time to do it. 1033 00:53:15.480 --> 00:53:18.239 Yeah, you know, I crowdfunded way back when, in like 1034 00:53:18.320 --> 00:53:21.079 twenty ten, and then I did it again in twenty eleven, 1035 00:53:21.400 --> 00:53:24.599 and you know, it was explaining people what crowdfunding was 1036 00:53:24.639 --> 00:53:26.840 it that time, because you know, not you know, nowadays 1037 00:53:26.880 --> 00:53:28.119 everybody has a Kickstarter. 1038 00:53:28.239 --> 00:53:29.800 It seems I think some people. 1039 00:53:29.519 --> 00:53:31.559 Get a little burned out, right, But I mean when 1040 00:53:31.599 --> 00:53:34.800 you're actually doing it, Gordy, I mean I hear you. 1041 00:53:34.920 --> 00:53:38.280 I was right there with you, because it feels, you know, 1042 00:53:38.840 --> 00:53:41.159 you're like, my god, is this seeing even gonna be possible? 1043 00:53:41.840 --> 00:53:43.719 You know, are people you know, because everyone will tell 1044 00:53:43.719 --> 00:53:45.800 you what I what I usually do is and this 1045 00:53:45.840 --> 00:53:47.440 is really quickly bring out of time. 1046 00:53:48.159 --> 00:53:50.239 I call it the one percent rule. 1047 00:53:50.639 --> 00:53:53.159 And so if you ask one hundred people to donate 1048 00:53:53.199 --> 00:53:57.199 to your crowdfunding campaign, ninety nine everyone everyone's gonna tell 1049 00:53:57.239 --> 00:54:00.320 you yes, but ninety nine won't do it, and that 1050 00:54:00.400 --> 00:54:03.480 one person will actually go through, and and and give 1051 00:54:03.519 --> 00:54:06.639 you some money. So if you use that one percent rule, 1052 00:54:07.599 --> 00:54:09.960 that's what the that's the multiplication that you're gonna have 1053 00:54:10.039 --> 00:54:12.199 to do to make sure that you have your movie. 1054 00:54:12.239 --> 00:54:15.119 So your multiplication your and your your division. And then 1055 00:54:15.119 --> 00:54:16.719 if you you you figure you have to tell that 1056 00:54:16.800 --> 00:54:19.480 many people. So if you know that you're gonna need 1057 00:54:19.559 --> 00:54:22.840 maybe like I don't know, twenty thousand dollars, twenty thousand dollars, 1058 00:54:23.000 --> 00:54:25.000 you have to kind of can you know, figure out 1059 00:54:25.000 --> 00:54:26.679 how many people that you're gonna have to talk to 1060 00:54:27.159 --> 00:54:30.039 in order to get that done, because you know, everyone 1061 00:54:30.119 --> 00:54:32.559 does what's called Chinese math, and they're like, well, if 1062 00:54:32.599 --> 00:54:35.400 I had twenty thousand people each give me a dollar, 1063 00:54:35.519 --> 00:54:37.440 i'd have one have them all the money. 1064 00:54:37.880 --> 00:54:39.519 Or I need only need one person to give me 1065 00:54:39.599 --> 00:54:41.000 twenty thousand dollars, you know what I mean. 1066 00:54:41.320 --> 00:54:44.119 So it's kind of like, you know, using all that 1067 00:54:44.159 --> 00:54:46.239 to your advantage, you have to figure out, you know, okay, 1068 00:54:46.280 --> 00:54:48.440 these are where I could go, these are the family, 1069 00:54:48.519 --> 00:54:50.480 these are their friends, they can give me thirty percent. 1070 00:54:50.519 --> 00:54:53.519 You know. It's stuff like that that you know you've 1071 00:54:53.599 --> 00:54:55.360 learned as you as you go about. 1072 00:54:55.119 --> 00:54:55.960 Doing all this stuff. 1073 00:54:58.159 --> 00:55:00.719 Yeah, yeah, it's a you know there's a lot of 1074 00:55:00.719 --> 00:55:04.400 stuff going on with it, but I think it I 1075 00:55:04.400 --> 00:55:08.920 mean it boils down to content, how you present you know, 1076 00:55:09.000 --> 00:55:12.360 your idea, and I think there's a lot of pitfalls 1077 00:55:12.400 --> 00:55:15.440 with that. I figure people think, oh, I should make 1078 00:55:15.480 --> 00:55:17.880 a four minute video. No one in the world has 1079 00:55:17.920 --> 00:55:20.400 ever watched a four minute video. No one watches four 1080 00:55:20.440 --> 00:55:23.639 minute videos. Ever. It's like, you know, and it's like, 1081 00:55:23.719 --> 00:55:25.760 let me explain it, let me bring everybody in. Let's 1082 00:55:25.760 --> 00:55:28.639 talk for seven minutes about what the movie's gonna be about. 1083 00:55:28.719 --> 00:55:31.079 No oney want to Nobody wants to watch that. You know. 1084 00:55:31.159 --> 00:55:33.840 It's like so there's these things that you sort of realize. 1085 00:55:33.880 --> 00:55:36.320 It's like, you know, make a forty five second video, 1086 00:55:36.800 --> 00:55:38.960 you know, and and like write a little bit about it. 1087 00:55:39.039 --> 00:55:40.920 People want to read it. They're going to find it. 1088 00:55:41.199 --> 00:55:44.360 But basically, just give them a little video reminder. Make 1089 00:55:44.360 --> 00:55:46.840 sure you have a ton of rewards. Make sure you 1090 00:55:46.880 --> 00:55:48.960 have a lot of different ways for people to get in. 1091 00:55:49.440 --> 00:55:52.039 If you only have one twenty five dollars award and 1092 00:55:52.079 --> 00:55:54.119 then the next one seventy five dollars, you're gonna be 1093 00:55:54.119 --> 00:55:56.280 in trouble, you know. But if you have five different 1094 00:55:56.320 --> 00:55:59.920 twenty five dollars awards. You know, some people don't want DVDs, 1095 00:56:00.400 --> 00:56:02.480 you know, they don't want a poster, you know, And 1096 00:56:02.519 --> 00:56:04.719 it's like if the only thing at that money level 1097 00:56:04.760 --> 00:56:07.199 is a poster, and then they're like, I don't want 1098 00:56:07.199 --> 00:56:10.079 a poster, you know. But if you're like, oh, you know, 1099 00:56:10.559 --> 00:56:12.840 I won't give you anything at twenty five dollars, you 1100 00:56:12.920 --> 00:56:14.840 get people signed up for that because they don't want 1101 00:56:14.840 --> 00:56:18.480 anything nail to them. So I mean, it's like, it's amazing. 1102 00:56:18.599 --> 00:56:20.480 I mean, all these things that I sort of learned 1103 00:56:20.519 --> 00:56:21.360 while I was doing it. 1104 00:56:22.880 --> 00:56:25.960 Yeah, it's it's all the things, you know, speaking of 1105 00:56:25.960 --> 00:56:28.119 the video really quickly. I know, we were almost out 1106 00:56:28.119 --> 00:56:30.079 of time, but really, but I once had a friend 1107 00:56:30.079 --> 00:56:33.840 of mine hit his crowdfunding campaign was not going anywhere, 1108 00:56:34.440 --> 00:56:36.320 and he said, could you you know, he goes, Dave, 1109 00:56:36.360 --> 00:56:38.280 I've know you've done this before, would you mind looking 1110 00:56:38.320 --> 00:56:40.800 at this for me? And I looked at it and 1111 00:56:41.039 --> 00:56:44.159 and Gordie he had him he had like a nine 1112 00:56:44.280 --> 00:56:47.400 or ten minute trailer so to speak, and it was 1113 00:56:47.480 --> 00:56:48.559 him talking on the couch. 1114 00:56:48.920 --> 00:56:51.639 I said, my god, I said, what could you pop it? 1115 00:56:51.880 --> 00:56:53.719 There was no like other shots, There was no like 1116 00:56:54.039 --> 00:56:56.760 footage of the movie or even concept uard or the 1117 00:56:56.800 --> 00:56:59.760 storyboard or nothing, even the screenplay. For godsakes, it was 1118 00:57:00.000 --> 00:57:02.480 literally him on a couch talking for like ten minutes, 1119 00:57:02.639 --> 00:57:04.559 and I said, dude, I know you and I don't 1120 00:57:04.559 --> 00:57:05.880 want to do any money to this. 1121 00:57:08.000 --> 00:57:11.280 Yeah. Yeah, I mean it's it's it's really I mean 1122 00:57:11.320 --> 00:57:14.039 I learned that like right when I was doing it. 1123 00:57:14.079 --> 00:57:17.079 They I mean somebody, I was reading a blog and 1124 00:57:17.119 --> 00:57:21.360 somebody was like, we we watched we watched videos for 1125 00:57:21.480 --> 00:57:26.239 six months, like we just studied Kickstarter campaigns for six months. 1126 00:57:26.400 --> 00:57:28.760 And I was like, wow, okay, and they were like, 1127 00:57:29.119 --> 00:57:31.519 and we ended up making a movie. We ended our 1128 00:57:31.639 --> 00:57:35.800 video ended up being two minutes or a minute and 1129 00:57:35.840 --> 00:57:38.360 a half or something like that. And they said, and 1130 00:57:38.400 --> 00:57:40.880 we should have made it shorter. And I was like 1131 00:57:40.960 --> 00:57:44.159 when I heard that, I was like, whoa, And so 1132 00:57:44.400 --> 00:57:48.440 my you know, my video is seventy seconds. I think 1133 00:57:48.840 --> 00:57:51.239 it's like a minute. And I made it like a 1134 00:57:51.320 --> 00:57:53.920 deconstruct I did like this. I just came up with 1135 00:57:53.960 --> 00:57:56.000 a quick concept and went out and shot it, and 1136 00:57:56.480 --> 00:57:58.599 it was it was a little bit slapped together, but 1137 00:57:58.679 --> 00:58:01.280 it was like I just I was like, I'm gonna 1138 00:58:01.280 --> 00:58:03.719 sort of do the anti Kickstarter video and not really 1139 00:58:04.000 --> 00:58:06.719 it was different, but people love the video, you know, 1140 00:58:06.920 --> 00:58:10.400 and it was like it was people really responded to 1141 00:58:10.440 --> 00:58:13.960 the video because it just reminded people like, oh, Gorty's talented, 1142 00:58:14.039 --> 00:58:16.480 is funny or whatever. You know, they just said enough 1143 00:58:16.480 --> 00:58:19.079 and then you know so, and then I just I 1144 00:58:19.280 --> 00:58:21.599 And I also believe I had a lot of rewards. 1145 00:58:21.880 --> 00:58:25.199 I had creative rewards. They were funny to read, and 1146 00:58:25.239 --> 00:58:27.559 I had a ton of different ones, you know, not 1147 00:58:27.679 --> 00:58:30.400 so many that people couldn't make a decision, but I 1148 00:58:30.519 --> 00:58:33.480 just had a lot of ways for people to participate. 1149 00:58:33.760 --> 00:58:36.599 And I also just remember that it's like just remember 1150 00:58:37.079 --> 00:58:41.159 not everybody wants a DVD, And if you apply that 1151 00:58:41.239 --> 00:58:44.719 principle to every war that you give, then you're gonna 1152 00:58:44.719 --> 00:58:47.639 come up with alternatives and you'll be surprised that people 1153 00:58:47.719 --> 00:58:52.159 will actually they'll take the other thing. And you'll be like, oh, 1154 00:58:52.239 --> 00:58:54.159 they don't even want a DVD or they don't even 1155 00:58:54.199 --> 00:58:56.679 want to a download, or you know, they just want 1156 00:58:56.679 --> 00:58:59.239 to this, you know, they want to actually have that 1157 00:58:59.440 --> 00:59:03.400 or whatever. And but yeah, the videos, you know, I 1158 00:59:03.400 --> 00:59:06.440 don't think I've ever watched a video, I mean anything 1159 00:59:06.480 --> 00:59:10.840 that's over like literally and everyone you go on there 1160 00:59:10.840 --> 00:59:12.960 I was like four minutes long. Five It's like, you 1161 00:59:13.159 --> 00:59:15.719 kidding me. I mean, no one watches, nobody wants Nobody 1162 00:59:15.760 --> 00:59:18.840 watches that, not even you know, not that anyone related 1163 00:59:18.880 --> 00:59:22.719 to them. Nobody, nobody watches. You know. It's just too long, man, 1164 00:59:22.760 --> 00:59:25.480 It's too long, dude. Okay, come on, man. 1165 00:59:26.559 --> 00:59:30.000 The best crowdfunding video I've ever seen, Gordy. This guy 1166 00:59:30.360 --> 00:59:34.519 actually pretended he was kidnapped and they filmed it and 1167 00:59:34.559 --> 00:59:37.440 he was actually and his guys were like, well, you know, 1168 00:59:37.519 --> 00:59:40.320 you need this money, and he would goes, well, I'll 1169 00:59:40.360 --> 00:59:42.079 get it, and they're like, who's gonna give you this money? 1170 00:59:42.079 --> 00:59:44.239 He said, I'll go to crowd I'll go to Kickstarter 1171 00:59:44.400 --> 00:59:46.519 and or Indy go go. And he goes, I'll ask 1172 00:59:46.559 --> 00:59:48.519 the money on that and he goes. They go, really 1173 00:59:48.519 --> 00:59:50.519 you can do that, and they That was the pitch 1174 00:59:50.880 --> 00:59:53.159 and it was actually it tied into the movie as 1175 00:59:53.159 --> 00:59:54.880 well because it was about a kidnapping, so it was 1176 00:59:54.920 --> 00:59:56.559 actually pretty creative. 1177 00:59:56.559 --> 00:59:58.280 And it was the body by Kenny G. 1178 01:00:00.159 --> 01:00:02.639 We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor 1179 01:00:06.280 --> 01:00:07.559 and now back to the show. 1180 01:00:09.840 --> 01:00:12.000 Not not the musician, by the way, it was, but 1181 01:00:12.119 --> 01:00:15.639 it was another another Kenny G. But but but I'll 1182 01:00:15.639 --> 01:00:17.119 link to that everyone in the show notes but it 1183 01:00:17.159 --> 01:00:20.000 was actually a really really good, uh good crowdfunding campaign 1184 01:00:20.039 --> 01:00:23.719 and he ended up making the movie. But but you know, Gordy, 1185 01:00:23.760 --> 01:00:27.519 I know we're running out of time. I just enclosing, Gordy, Uh, 1186 01:00:27.559 --> 01:00:29.920 I just want to talk about Blue Cat again. I 1187 01:00:29.920 --> 01:00:32.400 know Blue Cat it's open for submissions right now for 1188 01:00:32.440 --> 01:00:35.840 the twenty eighteen season. So if you could, you know, 1189 01:00:35.960 --> 01:00:37.599 just in the in a few minutes we have left, 1190 01:00:37.920 --> 01:00:39.599 could you just you know, give us a little bit 1191 01:00:39.599 --> 01:00:40.800 more information about Blue Cat. 1192 01:00:43.079 --> 01:00:48.840 Well, everybody should know that we have really great readers 1193 01:00:48.920 --> 01:00:52.119 and we provide written analysis on every script that enters. 1194 01:00:52.159 --> 01:00:55.039 So if you enter Bluecat, you will get notes back 1195 01:00:55.519 --> 01:00:57.920 on your script. Google read your entire script and you 1196 01:00:57.960 --> 01:01:00.480 will get notes back. So that's that's a lot of 1197 01:01:00.480 --> 01:01:03.159 people still don't know about that, but Blue Cat's been 1198 01:01:03.199 --> 01:01:06.679 doing that for you know, over fifteen years now. But 1199 01:01:06.719 --> 01:01:09.280 that's that's that's one of our traditions and we do 1200 01:01:09.360 --> 01:01:12.360 that as a part of the entry fee. We accept 1201 01:01:12.480 --> 01:01:16.960 features shorts pilots both hour and a half hour, and 1202 01:01:16.960 --> 01:01:20.079 we are also accepting short films this year, the first 1203 01:01:20.400 --> 01:01:22.559 time we've ever done that. So we're gonna have a 1204 01:01:22.599 --> 01:01:26.280 screening next June of the top short films that we receive. 1205 01:01:27.239 --> 01:01:33.280 The deadline's February twentieth, and the next I'm not sure 1206 01:01:33.320 --> 01:01:35.800 when you're airing this, but February twentieth is the is 1207 01:01:35.880 --> 01:01:40.000 the next is the final deadline. And you know you 1208 01:01:40.000 --> 01:01:42.000 can google us and sure you guys will have the 1209 01:01:42.039 --> 01:01:45.320 links for that. But yeah, I mean, and if you're 1210 01:01:45.679 --> 01:01:48.159 ready to submit, you'd like to get some notes, Bluecats 1211 01:01:48.239 --> 01:01:50.679 great for that. If you've got if you're really really 1212 01:01:50.679 --> 01:01:53.320 excited about your script, please send it to us. If 1213 01:01:53.320 --> 01:01:56.199 you're still like knowing you needed to work on it, 1214 01:01:56.239 --> 01:01:59.639 then work on it. Fend it to Nichols or Austin 1215 01:01:59.719 --> 01:02:02.360 later of the year and you can you can get 1216 01:02:02.360 --> 01:02:05.239 back to us in the future. But you know, just 1217 01:02:05.400 --> 01:02:09.480 use Bluecat use screenplay contests to you know, to help 1218 01:02:09.519 --> 01:02:13.960 you and encourage you to develop yourself. And and only 1219 01:02:14.000 --> 01:02:17.480 when that happens, you know, should you be using screenplay contests. 1220 01:02:18.239 --> 01:02:20.480 But yeah, we're really excited. We you know, we have 1221 01:02:20.519 --> 01:02:24.880 a great such a fantastic group of readers. I'm very 1222 01:02:24.920 --> 01:02:29.079 proud of them, and and and everyone really loves our feedback. 1223 01:02:29.159 --> 01:02:32.960 So you know, looking looking forward to meeting the next 1224 01:02:33.000 --> 01:02:38.039 winner and you know, the next winners and uh and yeah, 1225 01:02:38.159 --> 01:02:40.920 so I'm looking forward to getting your scripts. 1226 01:02:41.800 --> 01:02:42.519 Yeah and uh. 1227 01:02:43.320 --> 01:02:45.320 Like I said, I've entered group blue Cap before and 1228 01:02:45.559 --> 01:02:47.960 I really like the feedback that I got. And like 1229 01:02:48.000 --> 01:02:49.559 I said, gord to you, somebody I have one to 1230 01:02:49.599 --> 01:02:52.480 have on here before because you have you have the right, 1231 01:02:52.880 --> 01:02:55.760 you know, added to the personality to run a screwing competition. 1232 01:02:56.119 --> 01:02:58.519 You're you're not only the founder, but you're also like 1233 01:02:58.519 --> 01:03:00.760 this brand ambassador for it. And you know you have 1234 01:03:00.840 --> 01:03:02.039 that right attitude for it. 1235 01:03:02.079 --> 01:03:02.280 Man. 1236 01:03:02.719 --> 01:03:05.719 And uh, I and uh, you know that's why it's 1237 01:03:05.719 --> 01:03:07.719 so cool having you are on Gordy exent every interview. 1238 01:03:07.760 --> 01:03:08.440 You know what I mean. 1239 01:03:08.480 --> 01:03:10.760 It's like you're the type of guy like nothing bothers you, 1240 01:03:10.760 --> 01:03:12.440 you know what I mean, You're just like you just 1241 01:03:12.440 --> 01:03:13.119 go with the flow. 1242 01:03:14.719 --> 01:03:17.840 Yeah. Well I appreciate that, man. I mean hopefully I 1243 01:03:17.920 --> 01:03:20.559 can remember that sometimes when I'm a traffic out in 1244 01:03:20.599 --> 01:03:24.719 Los Angeles. But yeah, I uh look forward to being 1245 01:03:24.800 --> 01:03:27.559 back on again. Man. It was a great talk. I 1246 01:03:27.599 --> 01:03:29.960 could we could probably keep going. I mean, so if 1247 01:03:29.960 --> 01:03:32.119 you ever want me back on, I'd love to talk 1248 01:03:32.119 --> 01:03:34.039 about anything. You'd you know, and want to get into 1249 01:03:34.079 --> 01:03:36.280 there's a lot of stuff and the just a great 1250 01:03:36.320 --> 01:03:39.239 interview and love having love being. 1251 01:03:39.079 --> 01:03:41.199 On oh and I'd love to have you back on 1252 01:03:41.239 --> 01:03:43.599 Gordy and and before we uh we we sort of 1253 01:03:43.599 --> 01:03:44.159 cut this off. 1254 01:03:44.719 --> 01:03:46.280 Where can people find you out online? 1255 01:03:49.000 --> 01:03:51.280 Well, you can find me if you Google, you can 1256 01:03:51.320 --> 01:03:54.039 find my probably my Instagram account and I you know, 1257 01:03:54.119 --> 01:03:55.719 I don't really tweet a lot, but I do have 1258 01:03:55.760 --> 01:03:58.840 a Twitter account, and you know, you can reach out 1259 01:03:58.880 --> 01:04:02.639 to me through Blue It's pretty easy to find Blue 1260 01:04:02.679 --> 01:04:05.840 Cat and you can reach out to me the air 1261 01:04:05.960 --> 01:04:07.920 and stuff. And I'm also you know, one of the 1262 01:04:07.960 --> 01:04:10.559 things that we do where there's a lot of interaction 1263 01:04:10.719 --> 01:04:14.079 is we have something called the Blue Cat Writers Group 1264 01:04:14.239 --> 01:04:18.159 and that's on Facebook and it's a closed group but 1265 01:04:18.440 --> 01:04:21.480 pretty much anyone who wants to join just gets approved 1266 01:04:21.880 --> 01:04:25.280 and we always have weekly discussion questions, and you know, 1267 01:04:25.320 --> 01:04:28.079 there's a lot of interaction and it's very positive and 1268 01:04:28.960 --> 01:04:31.519 it's not overwhelming, and there's not a lot of you know, 1269 01:04:31.599 --> 01:04:34.559 extra stuff in there. It's really you know, it's really 1270 01:04:34.559 --> 01:04:36.559 about the craft of writing and sort of give and 1271 01:04:36.599 --> 01:04:39.639 take around that. So that's another place that people can find. 1272 01:04:39.440 --> 01:04:43.159 Me and I'll make sure everyone to link to all 1273 01:04:43.159 --> 01:04:45.920 of Gordy's social media links in the show notes. But 1274 01:04:46.280 --> 01:04:49.079 Gordie Hoffman Man, it has been a blast talking to you, 1275 01:04:49.119 --> 01:04:50.719 and I definitely would like to have you back on 1276 01:04:50.800 --> 01:04:52.639 because we you know, like I like, we were just saying, 1277 01:04:52.639 --> 01:04:54.079 you know, we could we could talk for another whole 1278 01:04:54.119 --> 01:04:54.760 another hour or. 1279 01:04:54.719 --> 01:04:59.159 Two, right, Well, looking forward to it, Dave. 1280 01:05:00.239 --> 01:05:02.079 I want to thank Dave so much for doing such 1281 01:05:02.079 --> 01:05:03.599 a great job on this episode. If you want to 1282 01:05:03.599 --> 01:05:05.519 get links to anything we spoke about in this episode, 1283 01:05:05.559 --> 01:05:08.840 head over to the show notes at Bulletproof Screenwriting dot tv. 1284 01:05:09.159 --> 01:05:11.920 Forward slash four eleven. Thank you so much for listening 1285 01:05:11.920 --> 01:05:14.760 to guys, as always, keep on writing no matter what. 1286 01:05:15.119 --> 01:05:15.880 I'll talk to you soon. 1287 01:05:16.360 --> 01:05:21.079 Thanks for listening to the Bulletproof Screenwriting podcast at Bulletproofscreenwriting 1288 01:05:21.159 --> 01:05:21.719 dot tv.