WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.799 --> 00:00:07.320 Well, whiskey coming thing, my pain, the moneys a ray. 2 00:00:10.000 --> 00:00:12.400 Why think alone when you can drink it all? In 3 00:00:12.519 --> 00:00:17.440 with Ricochet's Three Whiskey Happy Hour, join your bartenders, Steve Hayward, 4 00:00:17.640 --> 00:00:25.879 John You, and the International Woman of Mystery Lucretia where. 5 00:00:25.800 --> 00:00:28.480 They lapped it up and David Hain't you busy? On 6 00:00:28.640 --> 00:00:30.160 the show? Happy? 7 00:00:30.239 --> 00:00:34.759 Got to give it? Let me welcome everybody to another 8 00:00:34.840 --> 00:00:39.679 episode of the Three Whiskey Happy Hour where I believe 9 00:00:39.679 --> 00:00:41.920 it or not, I think President Trump has only been 10 00:00:41.960 --> 00:00:46.159 president for what eighteen days? Nineteen days? When nineteen days 11 00:00:46.840 --> 00:00:53.200 it seems like it's already year seven. So this is 12 00:00:53.320 --> 00:00:58.119 John You and I'm joined by my co hosts Steve Hayward. 13 00:00:58.759 --> 00:01:02.280 Hey, Steve, Hey, John, are you fully awake from your 14 00:01:02.320 --> 00:01:04.719 afternoon nap? You don't sound like the you know, the 15 00:01:04.840 --> 00:01:08.159 energetic person you are when you're on the Outnumbered on Fox. 16 00:01:08.439 --> 00:01:12.159 What's the Yeah. 17 00:01:12.200 --> 00:01:17.959 I'm surrounded by two white bald men and Kusha because 18 00:01:18.000 --> 00:01:19.799 we have a lurker with us. Steve, do you want 19 00:01:19.840 --> 00:01:21.480 to introduce your a lurker friend or no? 20 00:01:21.599 --> 00:01:24.319 Well I could. It's the it's the person who hosts 21 00:01:24.359 --> 00:01:27.760 me frequently in Seattle, Northern command with three whiskey happy hour, 22 00:01:28.200 --> 00:01:31.400 who attentive readers or power line will know by his 23 00:01:31.519 --> 00:01:34.359 handle hound Dog. That's a name I gave him forty 24 00:01:34.400 --> 00:01:37.879 five years ago, a nickname. So I'll just say that I. 25 00:01:37.840 --> 00:01:45.719 Don't even want to know how you came, what that means. 26 00:01:43.959 --> 00:01:47.480 The way I mean, it's such a great You never 27 00:01:47.560 --> 00:01:50.120 caught a rabbit, and you ain't no friend of mine. 28 00:01:50.680 --> 00:01:55.519 So there, Elvis. Is that like music from when the 29 00:01:55.519 --> 00:01:58.599 phonograph had to be turned by hand? Or what? 30 00:01:59.319 --> 00:01:59.799 Almost? 31 00:02:00.760 --> 00:02:04.599 And then the International Woman Mystery Lucretia, How are you, Lucretia. 32 00:02:05.000 --> 00:02:07.799 I'm well, John, It's very good to see you. Thanks. 33 00:02:09.280 --> 00:02:12.000 Well, we're just passing the time until the Eagles win 34 00:02:12.039 --> 00:02:16.280 the Super Bowl. Here, Oh, Steve, so I assume this 35 00:02:17.360 --> 00:02:21.879 we'll have to retape with the Philadelphia celebration and all 36 00:02:21.960 --> 00:02:23.560 the mayhem that will occur then. 37 00:02:23.919 --> 00:02:26.599 But you're not in Philadelphia, are you don't have to 38 00:02:26.639 --> 00:02:28.400 worry about your safety? 39 00:02:28.960 --> 00:02:32.439 Oh? Come on, people, Oh you gotta have Philly street smarts. 40 00:02:32.479 --> 00:02:34.840 Come on, give me a break. All these people keep 41 00:02:34.879 --> 00:02:38.199 getting attacked and shot in Philadelphia. They just don't know 42 00:02:38.199 --> 00:02:42.639 what they're doing. So today, the theme of our episode 43 00:02:42.879 --> 00:02:47.879 is the five noisy fights. Trump has started, and so 44 00:02:47.919 --> 00:02:50.759 we have five different issues that we're talking about, all 45 00:02:50.919 --> 00:02:52.759 just came up in the last week and a half, 46 00:02:53.319 --> 00:02:58.479 and we're going to start with Lucretia on the first issue, 47 00:02:58.719 --> 00:03:03.319 birthright citizenship. Although you know, the hosts of the Free 48 00:03:03.439 --> 00:03:06.919 three Whiskey Happen are so prescient, we actually had a 49 00:03:07.000 --> 00:03:10.560 full episode about birthright citizenship. But there have been recent 50 00:03:10.599 --> 00:03:12.479 developments Lucretia. 51 00:03:13.400 --> 00:03:15.879 I don't think anybody expected him to do it on 52 00:03:15.960 --> 00:03:21.120 the first day, and so John and I both written 53 00:03:21.199 --> 00:03:26.560 articles on this. My argument is that Trump is, you know, 54 00:03:27.000 --> 00:03:30.360 pressing the point. He took a bit of what you 55 00:03:30.439 --> 00:03:34.680 might call a middle ground on his executive order. Instead 56 00:03:34.719 --> 00:03:40.599 of saying anybody who claims birthright citizenship ever automatically has 57 00:03:40.680 --> 00:03:43.919 their citizenship revoked or at least can no longer get 58 00:03:44.000 --> 00:03:49.199 a passport from the State Department, he made it prospective. 59 00:03:49.360 --> 00:03:54.039 So only those people going forward trying to sneak into 60 00:03:54.080 --> 00:03:57.919 the United States to have their baby and thereby claim 61 00:03:58.000 --> 00:04:02.560 citizenship for their child and themselves, of all the welfare 62 00:04:02.560 --> 00:04:06.719 benefits of America has to offer, it can only we're only 63 00:04:06.719 --> 00:04:08.840 stopping it going forward. And of course, you know a 64 00:04:08.960 --> 00:04:13.280 stupid ass judge excuse me, sorry, stupid judge has put 65 00:04:13.479 --> 00:04:17.600 some sort of injunction on it, as you might might expect. 66 00:04:17.639 --> 00:04:21.480 But the other question is could there be enough of 67 00:04:21.519 --> 00:04:27.160 a enough of a movement in that regard that Congress 68 00:04:27.199 --> 00:04:32.879 would actually just pass legislation defining what citizenship is under 69 00:04:32.920 --> 00:04:38.079 the fourteenth Amendment, something that they've never done host fourteenth Amendment. 70 00:04:38.120 --> 00:04:41.319 They did pre fourteenth Amendment. And I think under the 71 00:04:41.399 --> 00:04:44.439 enforcement clause Congress could in fact say what exactly they 72 00:04:44.480 --> 00:04:48.480 mean by subject to the jurisdiction thereof, and say, yeah, 73 00:04:49.199 --> 00:04:53.279 whatever it might be that your father, the way Trump 74 00:04:53.279 --> 00:04:56.040 has done it, the father has to be a citizen, 75 00:04:56.120 --> 00:04:59.279 whatever all of those different things are. Congress could do that, 76 00:04:59.319 --> 00:05:01.120 and I don't think the would have much to say 77 00:05:01.160 --> 00:05:04.600 about it. One kim ark relies on really bad president 78 00:05:05.279 --> 00:05:07.519 and it's a dumb decision and it should be overturned 79 00:05:07.839 --> 00:05:09.480 if it gets back to the court. There you go 80 00:05:09.839 --> 00:05:10.680 everything you want, you know. 81 00:05:10.639 --> 00:05:13.639 So I'm good turn to Steve because two interesting points 82 00:05:13.759 --> 00:05:18.360 have risen. One is John Eastman, the notorious John Eastman, 83 00:05:18.720 --> 00:05:24.240 took a triumphant, triumphant extra lap around the track. Upon 84 00:05:24.279 --> 00:05:26.000 this there was a story I don't know if you 85 00:05:26.000 --> 00:05:28.040 caught it. You guys don't read the Washington Post, but 86 00:05:28.120 --> 00:05:31.600 I do. And John granted the Washington Post an interview 87 00:05:32.319 --> 00:05:35.120 saying that he felt like a coach that had gatorade 88 00:05:35.120 --> 00:05:39.839 poured all over himself when President Trump issued the executive 89 00:05:39.920 --> 00:05:44.360 order on birthright citizenship. Wow, what an image John Eastman 90 00:05:44.519 --> 00:05:48.000 covered in gatorade. There'd have to be a boycott of gatorade, 91 00:05:48.040 --> 00:05:50.439 I suppose after that. But the reason I bring it 92 00:05:50.519 --> 00:05:53.959 up with Steve is because Steve was the roommate of 93 00:05:54.040 --> 00:05:56.319 one that John Eastman in graduate school. So I have 94 00:05:56.680 --> 00:06:00.360 a question for you, Steve that I actually post when 95 00:06:00.399 --> 00:06:03.120 I did a debate about birthright citizenship this week. Is 96 00:06:03.600 --> 00:06:07.079 if Eastman is right, if Trump is right, if Lucretia 97 00:06:07.160 --> 00:06:12.279 is right, then isn't wasn't Kamala Harris illegally vice president? 98 00:06:12.560 --> 00:06:16.639 Oh and illegally presidential Kennedy because both of her parents 99 00:06:16.639 --> 00:06:19.560 were here on student visas, if I remember he is? 100 00:06:20.120 --> 00:06:23.079 Yeah, Well, okay, So by the way you mentioned, you 101 00:06:23.160 --> 00:06:25.000 gave a way that we were roommates for a couple 102 00:06:25.040 --> 00:06:26.800 of years and the house he rented from the great 103 00:06:26.959 --> 00:06:29.480 late Peter Drucker, you know, pretty famous person. 104 00:06:29.720 --> 00:06:31.600 Oh, the business management guru. 105 00:06:31.839 --> 00:06:32.560 Yes, that's right. 106 00:06:32.879 --> 00:06:36.399 I hope he overcharged you on the rents? Capitalist would 107 00:06:36.600 --> 00:06:39.639 he undercharged us? He was way below the market rate. 108 00:06:40.040 --> 00:06:41.800 And the funny thing was is we would often be 109 00:06:41.920 --> 00:06:45.199 deliberately late with our rent, so he would call us 110 00:06:45.279 --> 00:06:47.519 up in his great vine actresses. 111 00:06:47.399 --> 00:06:50.040 You are late with your rent. Oh, I'm so sorry. 112 00:06:50.040 --> 00:06:52.480 Professor Trucker will drive it right over. So you go 113 00:06:52.480 --> 00:06:54.240 over and talk to him a little bit, because he's 114 00:06:54.240 --> 00:06:56.639 a very friendly guy. And then some of her time, 115 00:06:56.680 --> 00:06:59.600 I'll tell you about John's van catching fire in the 116 00:06:59.600 --> 00:07:01.360 back of yourd and burning to the ground. That was 117 00:07:01.360 --> 00:07:06.199 a fun moment in nineteen eighty two or so. Oh 118 00:07:06.680 --> 00:07:10.680 but Lucretia and I both have lots of paper on John. Look, 119 00:07:10.839 --> 00:07:12.639 all I want to say is they are. 120 00:07:12.639 --> 00:07:15.439 You mean more indictments than the ones we already know about? 121 00:07:15.759 --> 00:07:19.360 Oh? God, sorry, I've got lots, although I do remember John. 122 00:07:19.360 --> 00:07:22.160 I'm sorry. This is fun, you know, John, Both you 123 00:07:22.199 --> 00:07:25.079 and I talked to the Los Angeles Times reporter who 124 00:07:25.079 --> 00:07:27.759 we both with reluctance talk to because she said the 125 00:07:27.839 --> 00:07:31.839 story was what was John Eastman like before January sixth? 126 00:07:31.800 --> 00:07:33.879 And I thought, okay, if you want to know serious background. 127 00:07:33.920 --> 00:07:37.360 I'll give it a try. And she said, you guys 128 00:07:37.360 --> 00:07:39.079 sound like a bunch of nerds. What did you do 129 00:07:39.199 --> 00:07:42.639 for fun? And I hesitate and I said, we went 130 00:07:42.720 --> 00:07:46.639 to grateful dead concerts, which is true. There's this long 131 00:07:46.759 --> 00:07:48.439 pause on the phone and you could hear her head 132 00:07:48.439 --> 00:07:51.279 exploding because this did not work right. I mean, this 133 00:07:51.360 --> 00:07:53.040 is impossible. But there was a whole bunch of US 134 00:07:53.199 --> 00:07:55.800 right wing dead heads at Claremont those days. Look, all 135 00:07:55.800 --> 00:07:57.600 I want to say, very briefly, is because I can 136 00:07:57.600 --> 00:08:01.639 tell I'm frustrating Lucretia already with this trivia. Is you 137 00:08:01.680 --> 00:08:04.240 know Richard Epstein and Elizabeth Foley both came out on 138 00:08:04.240 --> 00:08:07.800 our side against you, John so Ha, And you know 139 00:08:08.279 --> 00:08:10.759 I'll leave the exact arguments for later, but I think 140 00:08:10.800 --> 00:08:13.079 that's interesting. And the broader point is is Trump likes 141 00:08:13.120 --> 00:08:15.560 to pick a fight. It's by the way, I said 142 00:08:15.600 --> 00:08:17.839 five things, there's more than five, but these are related 143 00:08:17.879 --> 00:08:21.079 at the highest level. The birthright citizenship connects with the 144 00:08:21.160 --> 00:08:25.240 question of these nationwide injunctions by district court judges. We 145 00:08:25.319 --> 00:08:27.720 may want to talk about that an hour later, but 146 00:08:27.879 --> 00:08:30.040 both of these things are up in the air, and 147 00:08:30.120 --> 00:08:34.240 I think good for Trump. Look the bushes, the bushwazi 148 00:08:34.399 --> 00:08:37.320 as I forever said, they always shrunk from these challenges, 149 00:08:37.519 --> 00:08:39.840 and Trump it's like, oh, really there's a challenge. 150 00:08:39.879 --> 00:08:47.480 I yes, I will just say this much, John, that 151 00:08:47.639 --> 00:08:52.720 I probably received twenty or twenty five emails from listeners 152 00:08:53.240 --> 00:08:55.200 who wanted to know what the heck was wrong with 153 00:08:55.240 --> 00:08:59.399 you on your views on birthright citizenship, many of them 154 00:09:00.080 --> 00:09:04.240 speculating that your opposition to it is because you yourself 155 00:09:04.720 --> 00:09:06.519 are an immigrant. 156 00:09:07.519 --> 00:09:09.320 I am, yeah, and. 157 00:09:11.679 --> 00:09:14.720 Of removing your personal feelings from the issue, and therefore 158 00:09:14.720 --> 00:09:16.320 we don't have to pay attention to what you say. 159 00:09:17.039 --> 00:09:20.000 Way, I'm actually I'm unaffected by whatever the rule is 160 00:09:20.039 --> 00:09:23.279 because I'm a naturalized citizen no matter what the rules. 161 00:09:23.360 --> 00:09:27.799 Well, and to me, well also, I mean here I 162 00:09:27.840 --> 00:09:32.039 have to invoke the Peter Shram slogan. Peter Shram, also 163 00:09:32.039 --> 00:09:35.279 an immigrant from Hungary, said I was born American but 164 00:09:35.320 --> 00:09:37.480 in the wrong country, and that that kind of fits you. John. 165 00:09:37.519 --> 00:09:39.120 I hate to give you that high compliment because it 166 00:09:39.200 --> 00:09:40.240 kills me, but it's true. 167 00:09:41.879 --> 00:09:44.639 Well, you know, I'm a citizen of the world. Wherever 168 00:09:44.679 --> 00:09:48.039 there's a MCI, I can I can go. I'm I'm 169 00:09:48.039 --> 00:09:50.879 at home anywhere I can go to McDonald's. I'm at home. 170 00:09:51.720 --> 00:09:53.279 Do they have McGriff's in Israel? 171 00:09:54.399 --> 00:09:57.279 Actually not going to McDonald's in Israel. I have been 172 00:09:57.559 --> 00:09:59.279 in Israel for a whole summer and I didn't go 173 00:09:59.320 --> 00:10:01.559 to McDonald's. I didn't see one, actually now that I 174 00:10:01.600 --> 00:10:05.639 remember it. But let me address the universal injunction question 175 00:10:06.480 --> 00:10:09.799 real quick. We could fit in here because, as Lucretia mentioned, 176 00:10:10.080 --> 00:10:16.240 a judge in Washington State has issued nationwide injunction and 177 00:10:16.240 --> 00:10:20.720 this is actually something that judges have done against both parties, right, 178 00:10:20.720 --> 00:10:23.960 Obama and Biden suffered from these as well as Trump. 179 00:10:24.879 --> 00:10:29.039 There's actually a hard legal question here, and there have 180 00:10:29.080 --> 00:10:33.120 been Justice Thomas at least has called for this question 181 00:10:33.200 --> 00:10:34.960 to make it up to the Supreme Court. Whether a 182 00:10:34.960 --> 00:10:40.279 district judge can actually enjoin the entire federal government. I 183 00:10:40.320 --> 00:10:43.720 don't think he can or she can, because the way 184 00:10:43.759 --> 00:10:46.600 it works is a district judge is a judge over 185 00:10:46.679 --> 00:10:50.240 certain territory, like in there's a Southern District of New 186 00:10:50.320 --> 00:10:53.480 York which includes New York City. Of them, yeah, there's 187 00:10:53.600 --> 00:10:56.440 ninety four of them. I think Washington d C. Has 188 00:10:56.519 --> 00:11:02.240 Some states are entire districts themselves, and so the way 189 00:11:02.320 --> 00:11:05.960 I understand it is the district judge can issue an 190 00:11:06.080 --> 00:11:10.279 order to whoever's in their territory, but not outside their territory. 191 00:11:11.159 --> 00:11:15.639 But the question is what if the order is one 192 00:11:16.080 --> 00:11:20.480 where it would cause excessive disruption for having the government 193 00:11:20.519 --> 00:11:24.320 operate under two different rules, that would be impossible, you 194 00:11:24.320 --> 00:11:27.679 know that, So they could you know, the could Trump, 195 00:11:27.679 --> 00:11:31.120 for example, deny passports to people in Texas because the 196 00:11:31.200 --> 00:11:33.960 judges they agree with them. But then he can't give 197 00:11:33.960 --> 00:11:36.360 out he can't give out the passports. He can give 198 00:11:36.360 --> 00:11:39.360 out the passports and other parts of it, doesn't that's 199 00:11:39.399 --> 00:11:42.120 the claim. I think that's a misreading of the powers 200 00:11:42.120 --> 00:11:43.840 of the judge. I think a judge only has the 201 00:11:43.919 --> 00:11:48.240 power within their territory. And that's the question Justice Thomas 202 00:11:48.279 --> 00:11:53.080 identified as requiring Supreme Court resolution because there's no clear 203 00:11:53.200 --> 00:11:55.039 answer in the cases. 204 00:11:55.480 --> 00:11:59.559 So John, couldn't that question a be answered by Congress 205 00:11:59.600 --> 00:12:04.600 because the district courts were created by Congress, so Congress 206 00:12:04.600 --> 00:12:09.919 could in fact define what their jurisdiction is, yes or no. 207 00:12:10.600 --> 00:12:12.360 And the second thing is, I'll just bring it up 208 00:12:12.360 --> 00:12:14.080 because Steve put it in the chat too. We were 209 00:12:14.080 --> 00:12:18.440 both curious, how is it accepted practice that a district 210 00:12:18.480 --> 00:12:22.759 court judge's injunction et cetera can apply to the whole nation, 211 00:12:23.120 --> 00:12:27.240 but a circuit court ruling, the appellate court ruling applies 212 00:12:27.360 --> 00:12:30.879 only to that circuit. And unless you know that the 213 00:12:30.919 --> 00:12:34.440 Supreme Court gets involved, you do have in fact different 214 00:12:34.879 --> 00:12:40.120 interpretations of laws and constitutional provisions depending on the circuit 215 00:12:40.200 --> 00:12:42.919 if the Supreme Court hasn't spoken on the issue. 216 00:12:43.080 --> 00:12:46.360 Oh no, that's another reason why I think judges aren't 217 00:12:46.360 --> 00:12:51.000 allowed to do these universal injunctions. But what people on 218 00:12:51.000 --> 00:12:55.000 the other side would say is, well, there's universal nationwide injunction. 219 00:12:55.120 --> 00:12:58.559 That doesn't mean somewhere else, in another court or another circuit, 220 00:12:58.559 --> 00:13:02.080 the government can't go and litigate there and try to 221 00:13:02.080 --> 00:13:06.600 get a different outcome. That's still possible. But I think no, 222 00:13:06.679 --> 00:13:08.679 But I agree with that. I think that that's I mean, 223 00:13:08.720 --> 00:13:11.799 we have circuits that have their own territories too, and 224 00:13:11.840 --> 00:13:14.759 they can't affect I don't think effectively bind a government 225 00:13:14.759 --> 00:13:16.960 for this actually came up in the Reagan years, and 226 00:13:17.240 --> 00:13:21.360 Reagan actually did try for about two years to try 227 00:13:21.360 --> 00:13:23.919 to deny that circuit courts and district courts could do 228 00:13:24.120 --> 00:13:27.200 this kind of nationwide injunction. Uh, And they got so 229 00:13:27.320 --> 00:13:29.639 much crap from Congress that they kind of caved. It 230 00:13:29.679 --> 00:13:31.320 was towards it was in the second half in the 231 00:13:31.320 --> 00:13:34.559 second term, Reagan second term. But look, we have to 232 00:13:34.600 --> 00:13:37.600 take a break. You believe this is like gosh, this 233 00:13:37.720 --> 00:13:39.840 is just like Trump's time in office. The time is 234 00:13:39.879 --> 00:13:42.720 passing so fast. We've already hit the first ad break. 235 00:13:42.759 --> 00:13:50.919 So we'll be back after these messages. We're back, and 236 00:13:51.120 --> 00:13:53.600 Lucretia has yet another question about these. 237 00:13:53.559 --> 00:13:57.159 Nation promise I promised, John, because you're the expert on this, 238 00:13:57.240 --> 00:14:00.159 and I really have been asking many many people, and 239 00:14:00.200 --> 00:14:02.679 I don't know the answers to any of this. What 240 00:14:02.720 --> 00:14:06.360 you said makes sense. But my last question is a 241 00:14:06.399 --> 00:14:09.159 little bit more fun. What if you just mentioned that 242 00:14:09.200 --> 00:14:11.759 Reagan tried to sort of push back on it. What 243 00:14:11.799 --> 00:14:15.919 if Trump just said, screw you, excuse my language, Family show, 244 00:14:16.279 --> 00:14:19.440 and to any of those judges the ones you know, 245 00:14:19.480 --> 00:14:21.240 there's been quite a few of them now, even one 246 00:14:21.240 --> 00:14:25.399 that he appointed, I believe, said you can't lay off 247 00:14:25.440 --> 00:14:30.080 all of those despicable USAID employees until at least Monday. 248 00:14:30.799 --> 00:14:33.000 You know, the whole thing's crazy. But what if Trump 249 00:14:33.120 --> 00:14:36.120 just caused a constitutional crisis here? 250 00:14:36.200 --> 00:14:36.399 Then? 251 00:14:36.440 --> 00:14:39.480 What what if he did the Andrew Jackson thing. 252 00:14:40.480 --> 00:14:42.399 I mean he could do that. I mean it would 253 00:14:42.840 --> 00:14:44.919 not be a good way to win at the Supreme 254 00:14:44.960 --> 00:14:48.840 Court ultimately, but you can effectively get the same outcome 255 00:14:48.919 --> 00:14:52.559 I think by just going to like we were talking about, 256 00:14:52.600 --> 00:14:55.480 going to another district court or another circuit and litigating 257 00:14:55.559 --> 00:14:59.360 for a different outcome. So you know, if you're if 258 00:14:59.399 --> 00:15:03.480 one judge you know holds the birthright citizenship clause, I'm sorry, 259 00:15:03.559 --> 00:15:07.240 EO un constitutional, go to another judge somewhere else in 260 00:15:07.240 --> 00:15:09.320 the country and get them to uphold it, and then 261 00:15:09.360 --> 00:15:11.879 go to the Supreme Court. That way, I think defying 262 00:15:11.919 --> 00:15:14.399 the Court. I mean yes, I mean you could follow 263 00:15:14.440 --> 00:15:18.360 in Jackson or Lincoln's footsteps, or even FDR's footsteps, but 264 00:15:19.360 --> 00:15:21.279 you're not gonna win any friends at the Supreme Court 265 00:15:21.360 --> 00:15:23.200 with the people you need to win a case from, 266 00:15:23.279 --> 00:15:26.639 which is Chief Justice John Roberts and Breck Cavanaugh, who 267 00:15:26.759 --> 00:15:32.559 are big believers in judicial supremacy. But anyway, let's turn 268 00:15:32.600 --> 00:15:35.840 to more fun stuff. Unfortunately, this is another Supreme Court issue. 269 00:15:35.879 --> 00:15:38.879 I'm afraid and actually this is I can see how 270 00:15:38.960 --> 00:15:42.679 Lucretia's mind works, devilish as it is, which is she's 271 00:15:42.679 --> 00:15:47.440 already thinking about how to get Humphrey's Executor overturned. Because 272 00:15:47.480 --> 00:15:50.559 the second thing that Trump did is not only has 273 00:15:50.600 --> 00:15:55.480 he been removing people within the executive branch agencies, but 274 00:15:55.600 --> 00:15:59.279 this week he also fired a member of the National 275 00:15:59.360 --> 00:16:03.320 Labor Whereations Board. He's been he's fired people on these 276 00:16:03.360 --> 00:16:08.399 what they think of what we call independent agencies, these commissions. 277 00:16:09.600 --> 00:16:11.759 They're a whole bunch of them. They're not run by 278 00:16:11.799 --> 00:16:14.879 a single person. They're run by a usually a panel 279 00:16:14.919 --> 00:16:19.120 of three to five people. Congress usually requires therapy partisan 280 00:16:19.200 --> 00:16:23.080 balance on them. The President, excuse me, does nominate with 281 00:16:23.159 --> 00:16:26.080 the Vice and the Consentate of the Senate appoint them. 282 00:16:26.399 --> 00:16:31.320 But usually these commissioners, like the FEC, the sec, SEC, 283 00:16:31.559 --> 00:16:36.039 all the alphabet agencies, usually cannot be removed unless they've 284 00:16:36.080 --> 00:16:41.559 done something illegal. So Trump went ahead and fired a few, 285 00:16:41.600 --> 00:16:44.960 I think two of these types of people. There's a 286 00:16:45.080 --> 00:16:49.759 case called Humphrey's Executor from FDR Days, much loved by 287 00:16:49.799 --> 00:16:51.559 our listener one Hadley ark. 288 00:16:51.559 --> 00:16:55.000 Is by the way, he thinks it's wrong, does doesn't? 289 00:16:55.279 --> 00:16:57.879 Oh no, No, I think Hadley's a big fan of 290 00:16:57.960 --> 00:17:00.879 Humphrey's Executor. But we're we're going to invite him to 291 00:17:00.919 --> 00:17:02.840 send an email to let us know what he thinks. 292 00:17:03.159 --> 00:17:08.079 But Humphrey's executor might now be on the chopping block. 293 00:17:08.440 --> 00:17:10.759 By the way, I should point out that under the 294 00:17:10.839 --> 00:17:14.359 Roberts Court, in a case to called seal a law 295 00:17:14.359 --> 00:17:17.799 a few years ago about the Consumer Finance Protection Board, 296 00:17:18.240 --> 00:17:21.680 Chief Justice Roberts and the majority of the Court held 297 00:17:21.680 --> 00:17:25.960 that for executive branch officers in the agencies like Defense 298 00:17:26.240 --> 00:17:30.880 or State or Justice, the president can fire them at will. 299 00:17:30.960 --> 00:17:34.319 They Congress can't protect them, even when Congress passes a 300 00:17:34.400 --> 00:17:37.680 law saying you can't fire, say, the head of the 301 00:17:37.720 --> 00:17:42.480 CFPB except for cause, except for doing something legal. The 302 00:17:42.519 --> 00:17:44.640 Court struck that down and said no, the president must 303 00:17:44.680 --> 00:17:48.880 have free will to fire members of those agencies for 304 00:17:49.039 --> 00:17:51.759 any reason or no reason. But then the court said, 305 00:17:51.759 --> 00:17:56.759 we're not touching yet the case of commissions, Humphrey's executors 306 00:17:56.799 --> 00:17:59.880 not overruled. So that's where that's the state of things. 307 00:18:00.000 --> 00:18:05.240 Trump is directly contravening Humphrey's executor. 308 00:18:05.759 --> 00:18:07.119 Well, so you know what I would do if I 309 00:18:07.160 --> 00:18:10.319 was on the court. I had to take up a 310 00:18:10.359 --> 00:18:14.880 case challenging Humphrey's executor. I wouldn't even reach the question 311 00:18:15.000 --> 00:18:19.680 of whether or not the President could fire officials on 312 00:18:19.759 --> 00:18:26.640 these quasi legislative and quasi judicial administrative bodies. I would 313 00:18:26.759 --> 00:18:31.400 strike down the entire apparatus from the get go. I 314 00:18:31.440 --> 00:18:35.400 would say, an fec an sec et cetera, et cetera, 315 00:18:35.400 --> 00:18:40.119 et cetera, is unconstitutional. We have a separation of powers. 316 00:18:40.200 --> 00:18:43.359 Where it's not separated, it's checks and balances. There's nothing 317 00:18:43.400 --> 00:18:47.960 in the Constitution about the stupid quasi whatever bodies. Knock 318 00:18:48.000 --> 00:18:51.240 them out and tell Congress figure out a better way 319 00:18:51.880 --> 00:18:54.839 consistent with the separation of powers to do what it 320 00:18:54.920 --> 00:18:56.839 is you're trying to do with those agencies. That's what 321 00:18:56.880 --> 00:18:59.039 I would do if I were on the Supreme Court. 322 00:19:00.160 --> 00:19:01.839 Oh dear, oh see, I was gonna go. I was 323 00:19:01.880 --> 00:19:05.480 gonna talk on the point about how independent agency is 324 00:19:05.519 --> 00:19:10.200 an oxymoron, and not just in National Labor Relations Board person. 325 00:19:10.279 --> 00:19:14.720 But the firing I celebrated most was Ellen Wintromp from 326 00:19:14.759 --> 00:19:17.680 the Federal Election Commission, who was appointed to what is 327 00:19:17.680 --> 00:19:19.799 the six or seven year terms. That's the weird commission 328 00:19:19.799 --> 00:19:22.240 because it's three and three unlike most of the commissions. 329 00:19:22.839 --> 00:19:24.720 But she was appointed to a six or seven year 330 00:19:24.799 --> 00:19:28.119 term and has been there for twenty two years. Without 331 00:19:28.559 --> 00:19:32.519 without a successive appointment. Right, that's because the FEC is dysfunctional. 332 00:19:33.119 --> 00:19:35.279 But the NLRI so, and by the way, I'll just 333 00:19:35.319 --> 00:19:37.880 say this, I have a lot of inside knowledge about 334 00:19:37.920 --> 00:19:41.000 the FBC and Ellen Wine Trump. She's not well liked 335 00:19:41.240 --> 00:19:44.160 by anybody. Let's just leave that aside. 336 00:19:44.759 --> 00:19:49.079 Okay, take a really important point and trivialize it for me. Thanks, Steve. 337 00:19:49.400 --> 00:19:51.720 No, it's fow No. I'm going to come back to 338 00:19:51.759 --> 00:19:55.200 your point actually and invoke sorry, you're baiting me, is 339 00:19:55.240 --> 00:19:58.200 the problem. So the NLRIB lady, so a week ago, 340 00:19:58.240 --> 00:19:59.759 I think we mentioned this or two weeks ago, or 341 00:19:59.799 --> 00:20:03.440 maybe he was on Ricochet, but nobody had yet challenged 342 00:20:03.480 --> 00:20:05.599 the firings because they thought, oh my god, it's going 343 00:20:05.680 --> 00:20:07.839 to open up Humphreys executors and to be struck down 344 00:20:07.839 --> 00:20:11.200 and then Trump's off to the races. But the NLRB 345 00:20:11.359 --> 00:20:15.119 lady has sued. So now the case is teed up. Now, 346 00:20:15.200 --> 00:20:19.519 Lucretia your point. You know, look, the Supreme Court ruled, 347 00:20:19.599 --> 00:20:22.039 i mean way back in the late nineteenth century about 348 00:20:22.039 --> 00:20:24.839 the Interstate Commerce Commission. It is an important political science 349 00:20:24.880 --> 00:20:28.119 point that it was constitutional. Now I think it's weak. 350 00:20:28.440 --> 00:20:31.720 I think i'd be on your side. However, our late 351 00:20:31.759 --> 00:20:36.200 friend John Weddergreen made the point that those old commissions, 352 00:20:36.200 --> 00:20:40.960 the ICC, the Federal Trade Commission, the Food and certain 353 00:20:41.000 --> 00:20:43.920 other ones you can name the Securities Exchange Commission. They 354 00:20:43.960 --> 00:20:46.480 always had the five members, but they had to be, 355 00:20:46.880 --> 00:20:49.079 you know, three from the majority party, two for the 356 00:20:49.160 --> 00:20:52.599 minority party. What those commissions did was replicate on the 357 00:20:52.599 --> 00:20:56.000 administrative level the partisan split in Congress in between the 358 00:20:56.000 --> 00:20:58.920 two parties, so they would fight about things. Then you 359 00:20:58.960 --> 00:21:02.279 get to the sixties and you get now the EPA 360 00:21:02.440 --> 00:21:06.920 with the administrator and and and the Consumer product, the 361 00:21:07.720 --> 00:21:10.240 Consumer Protection and Financial whatever the hell thing the thing 362 00:21:10.319 --> 00:21:14.400 is right CFPB. The CFPB, the new model was much 363 00:21:14.400 --> 00:21:19.799 more centralized, did not replicate albeit defective but still deliberative 364 00:21:20.440 --> 00:21:26.559 body h whose actions and regulations could be appealed through 365 00:21:26.599 --> 00:21:31.920 the defective Administrator Procedure Act. And so anyway, I think 366 00:21:31.920 --> 00:21:34.079 you can start unraveling these I don't think you're geting 367 00:21:34.079 --> 00:21:36.000 a Supreme Court to appoint you to the court, because 368 00:21:36.000 --> 00:21:38.559 that would terrify the whole universe lucretia if you were 369 00:21:38.559 --> 00:21:41.720 on the court. But I think you might work back the. 370 00:21:41.799 --> 00:21:45.680 Kid whose name I won't mention, the savantin do. 371 00:21:46.359 --> 00:21:46.680 I won't. 372 00:21:47.559 --> 00:21:50.319 Well, that's not the guy who got rehired. We'll come 373 00:21:50.359 --> 00:21:51.160 back to that later. I hope. 374 00:21:51.200 --> 00:21:53.319 Well he never got fired, but he's getting a lot 375 00:21:53.319 --> 00:21:58.240 of bad press because you know, Okayonis, I'll say it 376 00:21:58.279 --> 00:21:59.720 like that, that's his handle. 377 00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:01.440 Okay, that's that way. 378 00:22:01.759 --> 00:22:05.000 So yeah, come on, this is a whole new era, Steve. 379 00:22:05.039 --> 00:22:08.160 We're not pussy footing around at the margins anymore. 380 00:22:08.519 --> 00:22:10.720 Well, I agree, I agree, and. 381 00:22:10.599 --> 00:22:13.359 I think that this is that the court oughtite say. 382 00:22:14.119 --> 00:22:17.640 It doesn't matter that you you said it yourself. Independent 383 00:22:17.640 --> 00:22:20.799 agencies and oxymoron, but not more than that. We don't 384 00:22:20.880 --> 00:22:24.960 want an independent agency. We have to get over that 385 00:22:25.319 --> 00:22:29.400 stupid progressive idea that because someone has some expertise in 386 00:22:29.440 --> 00:22:33.400 some discipline, some area of policy, that they somehow can 387 00:22:33.440 --> 00:22:38.359 be totally public spirited and never self interested or partisan. 388 00:22:38.960 --> 00:22:43.000 That's why we have Congress. We don't want independent agencies, 389 00:22:43.119 --> 00:22:47.000 quasi agency, judicial agencies, et cetera, et cetera. Get rid 390 00:22:47.039 --> 00:22:47.759 of them all. 391 00:22:48.119 --> 00:22:50.599 Can I just add that for the street fighting that 392 00:22:50.640 --> 00:22:53.279 you need for this battle. Look, it was near dear 393 00:22:53.319 --> 00:22:56.279 to me because of my past life. Trump has fired 394 00:22:56.319 --> 00:22:58.759 the science advisory boards, all of them at the EPA. 395 00:22:59.200 --> 00:23:01.599 That's something that during the Bush years we were yelling 396 00:23:01.640 --> 00:23:04.960 about and they didn't do it. Okay, so that's not 397 00:23:05.000 --> 00:23:07.279 getting a lot of press except for you know, wonky 398 00:23:07.359 --> 00:23:07.960 nerds like me. 399 00:23:08.839 --> 00:23:12.000 I don't know if you also saw this, but just 400 00:23:12.000 --> 00:23:14.400 just a few hours ago, Trump said he's going to 401 00:23:14.440 --> 00:23:18.079