Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to the show. I'm Martin Willis your host.
Speaker 1: Tonight's guest is Ryes Dalton Morgan. I'd like to thank
Speaker 1: him personally. He was a great person interview. I have
Speaker 1: the opportunity to sit down with him at Contact in
Speaker 1: the Desert and to turn into this amazing conversation. Really,
Speaker 1: it's about his grandfather and a military UFO encounter that
Speaker 1: he experienced and kept private for many years. I think
Speaker 1: you're really going to like this interview a lot. Be
Speaker 1: sure to check this week's blog by Charles Leer, titled
Speaker 1: a nineteen seventy nine UFO Case in an Irish newspaper.
Speaker 1: Charles always uncovers interesting historical cases deserve another look. So
Speaker 1: I'm very grateful to Charles for all these years of
Speaker 1: great blogs you can find. I think there's well over
Speaker 1: one hundred or even maybe even two hundred of them
Speaker 1: over at a website PODCASTUFO dot com. And as always,
Speaker 1: thank you for watching and supporting the show. I'll be
Speaker 1: hanging out live in the chat room tonight, but I'll
Speaker 1: be leaving really early tomorrow morning for Washington, DC to
Speaker 1: attend the disclosure form. I will be filming there at
Speaker 1: the event on Thursday, but I cannot live stream it,
Speaker 1: so just keep your eyes open for some clips that
Speaker 1: come out on YouTube, some interviews, possibly a full full
Speaker 1: show later that night Thursday, and maybe even a special.
Speaker 2: Podcast release I do not know, but if so, that.
Speaker 1: Would be on Thursday evening at eight o'clock. So next
Speaker 1: Tuesday we'll be joined by Joe Piscato of the UAP
Speaker 1: Reporting Center. And that is really another great conversation that
Speaker 1: I had out at Contact in the Desert, and he
Speaker 1: and I agree on so many UFO issues I and.
Speaker 2: He's a really a great person.
Speaker 1: So check that out next Tuesday at APM Eastern here,
Speaker 1: and I'd like to thank everyone that supports the show.
Speaker 1: Anyone can support the show on our Patreon page for
Speaker 1: just two dollars.
Speaker 2: Or more a month.
Speaker 1: That's over at PODCASTUFO dot com. You can see the
Speaker 1: links there so you can have an ad free version
Speaker 1: of the audio podcast and can be listened to by
Speaker 1: virtually any app or a media player. Thanks again for
Speaker 1: joining and I hope you really enjoy the conversation tonight.
Speaker 2: Reestlton Morgan, I am so happy to have you here. Irene.
Speaker 2: Our mutual friend said, you've got to have this guy
Speaker 2: on my show, and you appeared here Contact in the desert,
Speaker 2: so we got to meet and it's been such a
Speaker 2: pleasure talking to you. Likewise, this room just opened up
Speaker 2: and I grabbed a hold of you. So let's go.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's how we do it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, great, that's great. What do you think of Is
Speaker 2: this your first time? No, no, it's not your first
Speaker 2: home to America, but your first home to California? Is
Speaker 2: that right?
Speaker 3: No, not first time in California, but first time at
Speaker 3: Contact here.
Speaker 2: We yeah, we did a little.
Speaker 3: Trip around the California sort of parks and some of
Speaker 3: the states outside as well as southwest there. So we
Speaker 3: sported a little Was that a few years ago like
Speaker 3: last year actually?
Speaker 2: Or yeah? Last year? So okay, I think did you
Speaker 2: go to Secorol?
Speaker 3: No, not yet.
Speaker 2: That's this trip.
Speaker 3: We're going to try and get up there to you
Speaker 3: said to me in Sequoia and Kings Canyon. Oh nice,
Speaker 3: but yeah, last time we did sort of Zion, Red Rock,
Speaker 3: Grand Canyon, Yeah, yeah, the big parks, so we were
Speaker 3: trying to see as much.
Speaker 2: As we could. Yeah. Yeah, So we had a great
Speaker 2: conversation and we know someone mutually Bell Charker correct. Yes,
Speaker 2: I consider Bell Charker the leading No, maybe I'm partial,
Speaker 2: but the leading Australian UFO researcher, I would agree, yes,
Speaker 2: and a very nice gentleman.
Speaker 3: He is a gentleman, definitely, yep.
Speaker 2: So he's sort of mentoring you, that's right. Yeah, So
Speaker 2: what's a funny story.
Speaker 3: He originally had done a lot of research into kind
Speaker 3: of the Australian military defense cases sort of across the years,
Speaker 3: and one of those accounts that had sort of been
Speaker 3: passed on that he ended up getting his hands onto
Speaker 3: was my grandfather's account of a flying saucer during the
Speaker 3: launch of a nuclear black Night rocket in nineteen fifty
Speaker 3: eight or nineteen fifty nine at the woman of Test Range,
Speaker 3: which is sort of Australia's Area fifty one. It was
Speaker 3: where Britain were doing their ICBM and atomic testing and
Speaker 3: it's a massive facility. But long story short, I kind
Speaker 3: of connected through Bill trying to find more information about
Speaker 3: this case and my grandfather because it had never been
Speaker 3: known to the family.
Speaker 2: So how did you find out about it? So I
Speaker 2: actually found it online.
Speaker 3: There was a published there was a published testimony of
Speaker 3: the siding, and I bound Bill Chalker's home phone number
Speaker 3: online and gave him a call, wrung him up and said, Hi, Bill,
Speaker 3: my name is Reestot Morgan. He probably don't know who
Speaker 3: I am, but I'm interested in sort of some information
Speaker 3: he might have about my grandfather. And he thought Dalton
Speaker 3: Morgan a name sounds very familiar. And we ended up
Speaker 3: from there just doing a lot of work. And he's
Speaker 3: sort of been, I think, guiding me along, trying to
Speaker 3: help me in any way he can get more information
Speaker 3: about my grandfather but also take on board the enigma
Speaker 3: that is the phenomenon in the exploration of this and
Speaker 3: trying to get to the truth. So he's always very
Speaker 3: good with providing critical analysis and helping me on what
Speaker 3: content or material I should read in to get myself
Speaker 3: continually up to speed. So yeah, very grateful to have
Speaker 3: Bill there to I guess guide me along this journey.
Speaker 2: Well, you know, you think about I think about how
Speaker 2: things have changed my life, and I love where my
Speaker 2: life was gone because I was sitting at a hot
Speaker 2: tub and something flew over me. But now you happen
Speaker 2: to catch this thing online that you would have never
Speaker 2: known about. Yeah, and here you are now and that's
Speaker 2: kind of how these things work, and it's pretty amazing.
Speaker 2: And so your grandfather never spoke about this, No, it's
Speaker 2: quite strange.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so he kind of went to his grave not
Speaker 3: really talking to the family or anyone that we know
Speaker 3: about these experiences that he'd had. And yeah, given that
Speaker 3: they were, I think such credible documented accounts given his title.
Speaker 3: So you know, my grandfather originally he was a famous
Speaker 3: spider pilot as from the ref sort of one of
Speaker 3: the golden boys or the few that was sort of
Speaker 3: tipped to go all the way to the Air Chief
Speaker 3: of Staff. And in nineteen fifty two he sort of
Speaker 3: resigned from an Air Force base in West Germany, it
Speaker 3: was a NATO operation there and was tasked by the
Speaker 3: Ministry of Supply to come to Australia to act as
Speaker 3: the operations head for the woman A Test Range, so
Speaker 3: essentially to run all their ICBM and classified advanced technology
Speaker 3: tests as part of a joint project with Australia. And
Speaker 3: during his time a few years into that, when he
Speaker 3: was range head, they were going to launch a black
Speaker 3: Night rocket. He was in the control tower and there
Speaker 3: was a collection team one hundred miles down the northwest
Speaker 3: of the Woman a test range and for context, the
Speaker 3: Woman a test range essentially is just a desert in
Speaker 3: the middle of Australia, South Australia and the middle of
Speaker 3: Australia a little below the middle, but in the middle
Speaker 3: of South Australia where there's nothing.
Speaker 4: From what I understand the light of it, it's a
Speaker 4: lot of sparse territory, but it's the Woman A test
Speaker 4: range at that time was double the size of England.
Speaker 3: Just that brill the largest test range in the world.
Speaker 3: Ah say, And he got a call from someone called
Speaker 3: Lieutenant Percy Hawkins who was there to collect the material.
Speaker 3: After the ICBM had gone up, the warhead had separated
Speaker 3: the dummy warhead and they would re enter the atmosphere
Speaker 3: and they would collect the data and bring it back.
Speaker 3: And Lieutenant Percy Hawkins said, called up the telecom in
Speaker 3: the control tower and my grandfather was and a couple
Speaker 3: of others and said, hey, there's a bright light moving
Speaker 3: at high speed towards where you guys at the rangehead.
Speaker 3: And he estimated faster than mak too. So my grandfather
Speaker 3: went out with Alan Mole.
Speaker 2: That's like fifteen hundred miles an hour YEP. Something like that. Yep.
Speaker 3: So they weren't sure, but they thought it was moving
Speaker 3: very quick and big and bright the light. So him
Speaker 3: and Alan Mole and six others went out onto the
Speaker 3: control area and they picked up this light. Sure enough,
Speaker 3: moving quite quickly. It came down in at five thousand feet,
Speaker 3: which is quite low in terms of the woman or
Speaker 3: a test area, because it's all it's all sky three
Speaker 3: quarter sky, flat desert, beautiful landscape, and the light was
Speaker 3: illuminating a circular disc. And my grandfather documented that you
Speaker 3: could see a cupola light cabin on top of the disc.
Speaker 3: And this circled over top of the missile on the
Speaker 3: site for a few minutes or so, and then it
Speaker 3: shot off to the northeast and accelerated into space, essentially
Speaker 3: right in front of them.
Speaker 2: Did they have it on radar or anything?
Speaker 3: He said that the radar did not detect it and
Speaker 3: pick it up, but they watched it.
Speaker 2: That's so unusually, isn't now? Did I do remember we
Speaker 2: had this conversation yesterday or the day before that you
Speaker 2: mentioned there results of windows in this thing.
Speaker 3: Yes, that's right. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Was there a description of what the windows were like?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 3: I think car probably it would be well, you would
Speaker 3: equate to a portholes them guessing. So, yeah, the craft disappeared.
Speaker 3: He wrote five reports allegedly about this.
Speaker 2: Now, was anyone on the outside of the tower that
Speaker 2: witnessed us out in the open? Do you happen to know?
Speaker 2: Is that in the report?
Speaker 3: So when you say well we so, we actually haven't
Speaker 3: been able to get access to the official report. Basically
Speaker 3: it's still allegedly in the ether or classified. What we
Speaker 3: were able to find was my grandfather's handwritten transcript or
Speaker 3: the testimony of the account.
Speaker 2: That must have been exciting.
Speaker 3: Yes, that's right. So he'd actually put that in with
Speaker 3: the author who was to do his biography, and that's
Speaker 3: that's how we ended up finding the actual account through
Speaker 3: the author, so we had his written words and testimony
Speaker 3: of it and from there, basically Bill Chalker helped me
Speaker 3: speak with another researcher in the UK called doctor David Clark.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, so, no, David, he's been on the show yep.
Speaker 3: Yeah, David's a great bloke. So he actually interviewed my
Speaker 3: grandfather two years before he passed.
Speaker 2: Away, Is that right? Yeah, and no one in the
Speaker 2: family knew about it, no one, boy, He was a
Speaker 2: secret of man.
Speaker 3: He was always very understated, unassuming, but clearly you know,
Speaker 3: was sort of from that era I think too, and
Speaker 3: they didn't talk about a lot of work that they did,
Speaker 3: and it was all sort of behind closed doors. But yeah,
Speaker 3: David Clark had spoken with my grandfather, and my grandfather
Speaker 3: had told him that in the late nineteen forties that
Speaker 3: he'd served on a secret joint United States Air Force
Speaker 3: committee as an RAF officer to investigate UFOs.
Speaker 2: And great, that's right.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so at that time it would have beenably nineteen
Speaker 3: forty eight, we estimate based off his records.
Speaker 2: That's early.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And also that's an early encounter involving noks. Yes, because
Speaker 2: you know, I used to have Robert Heasting's on my
Speaker 2: show a lot. Are you familiar with Robert Heasting? I am?
Speaker 3: Indeed, does he know about this situation? I don't know
Speaker 3: if he does. Yeah, Well, Bill's documented and written about
Speaker 3: it actually in a few of his books. He has
Speaker 3: it in the ors files. He also UFOs and government
Speaker 3: it's in there as well the case. But yeah, there's
Speaker 3: still a lot of information I think to be found
Speaker 3: about my grandfather's involvement because.
Speaker 2: The more I was digging.
Speaker 3: The more we were looking, the more it seemed like
Speaker 3: he was somewhat always in these interesting places at interesting
Speaker 3: times that happened to be a kind of there were
Speaker 3: either UFO encounters going on or there were cases documented
Speaker 3: at that time, and very famously, Harry Turner, who saw
Speaker 3: wrote some explosive UFO documents which have sort of gone
Speaker 3: quite public since they've been put out there. Very interesting.
Speaker 3: My grandfather and Harry Turner had worked together at the
Speaker 3: Woman A Test Range, and there's a whole history there
Speaker 3: as well between those two where Harry Turner was actually
Speaker 3: investigating the UFOs in his time at the Woman A
Speaker 3: Test Range. You've got my grandfather, who'd been involved in
Speaker 3: investigations in what we estimate to be Europe or Germany,
Speaker 3: taking over the Test Range and then having a UFO
Speaker 3: experienced himself, but then also the chief commander of the
Speaker 3: Woman A Test Range who was Australian. His name is
Speaker 3: Richard Durant. He ran the facility with my grandfather at
Speaker 3: the time, and he was in the Washington, DC radar
Speaker 3: room during the nineteen fifty two flyover. He was there
Speaker 3: as the year tache for the Australia and the United States.
Speaker 3: So you had three very prominent figures at the Test
Speaker 3: Stranger at the same time, all involved with the UFO
Speaker 3: phenomenon at some level.
Speaker 2: Very interestingly, Now, when David Clark interviewed him, was that
Speaker 2: a written interview or is that an ideal?
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was audio over the phone, and you have
Speaker 3: it to him. I'm sure I've got the notes, yes,
Speaker 3: from David Clark, right, We've gone through them. Yeah. So,
Speaker 3: as I said, my grandfather didn't list the name of
Speaker 3: the committee or why he was on it to David Clark.
Speaker 3: I still think he kept it quite close to the
Speaker 3: chest from what we can determine. But all I suspect
Speaker 3: is that whatever they determined in that report or that
Speaker 3: committee is still probably locked away somewhere I have. I
Speaker 3: don't think we will have seen the real report. And
Speaker 3: the reason that it's fascinating is Britain's first documented investigation
Speaker 3: into UFOs. The formal report that we have is nineteen
Speaker 3: fifty to nineteen fifty one, and that was Sir Henry
Speaker 3: Tizzard who initiated that. He was the Chief Scientific Officer
Speaker 3: of Winston Churchill and they gathered a few different parties
Speaker 3: from the Admiralty, the Air Ministry sorry excuse me, to
Speaker 3: launch an investigation into the phenomena for Britain, and they
Speaker 3: determined that only a very small percentage were basically unacknowledged
Speaker 3: or unknown, but there wasn't enough Dartatta to make any
Speaker 3: decision as to whether that was actually anonymous, and that
Speaker 3: report didn't come out until two thousand. It was discovered. Really,
Speaker 3: and my grandfather's account of being on this committee predates
Speaker 3: Britain's first documented investigation by a few years.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I have to stop. You're here, We're going
Speaker 2: to do I'll do it a little bit at it
Speaker 2: and I can't make a note of that, but so
Speaker 2: you're you're a laniard has falling down the microphone. So
Speaker 2: I'm wondering if if you can't really you can try
Speaker 2: to pinch it on your shirt.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm trying to see.
Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe that's better. God sorry, yeah, yeah, So I
Speaker 2: just got to I got to go through this and
Speaker 2: make sure I note. I'm going to put my card
Speaker 2: out of something to remind myself to note that this
Speaker 2: is in thirteen minutes and fifty five seconds. Okay, I
Speaker 2: have to do weird things when I don't have a
Speaker 2: pen and paper to get my Oh yeah, that's.
Speaker 3: That's all right.
Speaker 2: Sorry, no, no, no, that's like that's just one of
Speaker 2: those things. It's kind of funny. So okay, So what
Speaker 2: do you think that your grandfather would think about your
Speaker 2: research if he were alive today.
Speaker 3: That's a great question. That's a really interesting question, because
Speaker 3: I wondered if he'd be almost you know, would he
Speaker 3: be annoyed that I'd be trying to dig into things
Speaker 3: He should probably remain, you know, where they are with
Speaker 3: the history that he had. But very strangely, you know,
Speaker 3: I've gotten this sense. You know, my grandfather and I
Speaker 3: were close growing up. He lived in an Adelai Idea.
Speaker 3: He would throw a rugby ball with me, and we
Speaker 3: spent a lot of time together. And my grandmother might
Speaker 3: have a huge family, right, so my dad has sort
Speaker 3: of four brothers and three sisters and other siblings as well.
Speaker 3: And my grandmother would always cry when she saw me
Speaker 3: because she thought I was sort of the reincarnation of
Speaker 3: time my grandfather. Very funnily, so, I'd always been obsessed
Speaker 3: and interested in UFO since after high school, and I
Speaker 3: never had any explanation why. And I was deeply invested
Speaker 3: in his topic from twenty seventeen. Once the New York
Speaker 3: Times article came out, and was learning reading everything I could,
Speaker 3: And when I discovered that Bill Chalker testimony of my grandfather,
Speaker 3: I nearly fell off my chair, I bet, And because
Speaker 3: I almost wondered if there was something that was maybe
Speaker 3: deep with inside me that maybe I'd inherited, or it
Speaker 3: was something that my grandfather never for whatever reason didn't express,
Speaker 3: maybe sort of came out in me, sort of skipped
Speaker 3: the generation because my dad was a major skeptic and
Speaker 3: not really interested in No, he's come on board. He's
Speaker 3: come on board.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: After he learned about all the details his father, his history, Yeah,
Speaker 3: plus all the other cases I've sort of thrown in
Speaker 3: front of him, he started to come around. But yeah,
Speaker 3: it felt as if my connection to being so interested
Speaker 3: in the UFO phenomenon in some way was related to
Speaker 3: my grandfather somehow.
Speaker 2: Seems that way.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I would say, without knowing how the world
Speaker 3: works or what the universe really is, and this phenomenon,
Speaker 3: with how strange it can be, that there's a part
Speaker 3: of me that somewhat believes that, you know, my grandfather
Speaker 3: has some part to play in my journey along this
Speaker 3: as well. I don't know, and maybe not, But as
Speaker 3: I said, I think there have been some very interesting
Speaker 3: coincidences that have sort of almost felt like I've been
Speaker 3: pulled into this a period of time.
Speaker 2: Now, what about I don't know if you have any
Speaker 2: siblings or is there other parts of the family that
Speaker 2: really find this fascinating.
Speaker 3: So I'm not to the same extent. No, I've got
Speaker 3: a sister and an older brother, but no one's really
Speaker 3: curious as much as I am.
Speaker 2: My mom I have the same situation.
Speaker 3: Maybe, yeah, it can happen. My mom's very interesting because
Speaker 3: my mom sort of you know, she's a scientist's very intelligent.
Speaker 2: She yes, Now you told me something about your mother.
Speaker 2: I know she was born in Bison. That's same as myself. Yep, yep,
Speaker 2: But so yeah, tell us about your mother. Yeah.
Speaker 3: So my mom is in a senior role at Australia's
Speaker 3: only a nuclear reactor. She runs the communications for Australia's
Speaker 3: only nuclear reactor. And she's never mentioned anything about UFOs,
Speaker 3: never really blinked deny about my interests to sort of
Speaker 3: let me be with it. And after I released all
Speaker 3: my research about my grandfather Tom, she sat my father
Speaker 3: and I down and came out and explained that she'd
Speaker 3: actually had multiple experiences with what we might call the
Speaker 3: UFO phenomenon throughout her life, some in the United States,
Speaker 3: some in Australia, and she was almost, I don't want
Speaker 3: to say traumatized, but very hesitant to kind of explore
Speaker 3: it and talk about it. And it shocked my father
Speaker 3: more than anyone, because she'd never spoken about this ever.
Speaker 3: It was the first time she had shared anything like
Speaker 3: this with anyone, you know.
Speaker 2: Did it come up at it like a sorry, did
Speaker 2: it come up like at a family gathering or something
Speaker 2: like that.
Speaker 3: No, just quietly when I was down visiting my parents
Speaker 3: down the coast, she just sort of sat us down
Speaker 3: and said, look, I've got something to share with you
Speaker 3: and make of it what you will. And yeah, she'd
Speaker 3: had close encounters.
Speaker 2: Can we talk about it and did you give your details?
Speaker 3: Of course? Yeah, absolutely. This one she was quite young.
Speaker 3: She said she was playing in the backwoods and she
Speaker 3: came across an entity of sorts in America in Boston, yeah,
Speaker 3: north andover, I believe, Oh yes, a shadow like entity
Speaker 3: of sorts. And her description was that it stretched wide
Speaker 3: and tall and went transparent and then she blacked out.
Speaker 3: She woke up there and went out, obviously out of
Speaker 3: the woods, pretty freaked out. From her description, she was
Speaker 3: coming out of a parking lot in Boston in her twenties.
Speaker 2: Hang on, just one second. Were you going to that one?
Speaker 2: Did she talk about any tape of missing time? Do
Speaker 2: you know she noticed any tape? No?
Speaker 3: No, I think she was she was too young, I
Speaker 3: think to acknowledge basically that that kind of yeah, that effect.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so she's in her twenties and coming out of
Speaker 2: a parking lot.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so this one, she's in her twenties. The next
Speaker 3: one coming out of a parking lot, and she said,
Speaker 3: basically a k or so above the parking lot and
Speaker 3: just in front of her there was a craft with
Speaker 3: rainbow colored lights, moving very strangely. Her description in the
Speaker 3: air the way was that she said it didn't look
Speaker 3: like it was flying, and that was how she knew
Speaker 3: something odd was going.
Speaker 2: This is the second time I've heard since I've been
Speaker 2: out here someone described rainbow color plates. The other one
Speaker 2: was in eighteen seventy eight.
Speaker 3: That incident very interesting.
Speaker 2: And it'd probably be hard to tell what year this
Speaker 2: was with your mother or did she tell.
Speaker 3: You no, I would have to track it down and
Speaker 3: go back to it. I haven't got the exact year.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, okay, so continue, I'm sorry for now. That's okay.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. It's all great data points, isn't it. It's overlap, yes.
Speaker 3: And then it was performing maneuvers in the sky, so
Speaker 3: he'sig zagging all in front of her and she was
Speaker 3: there watching it sort of in awe. What type of
Speaker 3: sheep classic saucer?
Speaker 2: Yes, and any noise?
Speaker 3: No noise?
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I always loved that part. Yeah, it's great. So's there's
Speaker 3: more details that I think at some point I think
Speaker 3: maybe once she leaves her position in her role, she
Speaker 3: would come out and speak about But I think that's
Speaker 3: a it's a great account. And then the next account
Speaker 3: she told me about was actually in Australia, was in
Speaker 3: a place called Yolara, which is just outside of u Larou,
Speaker 3: and she would have been in her thirties there, and
Speaker 3: she was living in a sort of portable home and
Speaker 3: she was going to bed and heard a low pitch
Speaker 3: vibration wobble sound coming up to the portable home and
Speaker 3: then a bright light filled her whole bedroom window like
Speaker 3: almost like a car it was sort of shining a
Speaker 3: light in a sense, but much brighter, and she'd got
Speaker 3: up to investigate, and the light had gone around to
Speaker 3: the other side of the portable home and she could
Speaker 3: still hear the sound and was petrified. Point she became
Speaker 3: quite scared. She said, she was quite freaked out. And
Speaker 3: when the light filled the room againning and came back around,
Speaker 3: she said she was paralyzed. She had paralysis.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 3: She said she felt a presence approaching her but couldn't
Speaker 3: move and was the most scared she's ever been. And
Speaker 3: then she said she blacked out and she just woke
Speaker 3: up tucked into her bed the next morning, no memory
Speaker 3: of anything in between from when she had that presence
Speaker 3: coming up behind her the feeling blacked out. But she
Speaker 3: described that she had the feeling that she got being
Speaker 3: under heavy anesthetic and couldn't get out of bed and
Speaker 3: go to work. She had to call in sick. Wow,
Speaker 3: and she was really freaked out by that experience.
Speaker 2: Now, I know she would probably do anything now, but
Speaker 2: have you ever considered telling her about regression hypnotherapy?
Speaker 3: Yeah, so, I've actually so. I tried to put a
Speaker 3: few books in front of her just to test the
Speaker 3: waters use her into the eye idea about exploring it.
Speaker 3: You know, I got her to have a look at
Speaker 3: John Mack's abduction, so maybe something more which is more
Speaker 3: transformative rather than looking at kind of the darker aspects
Speaker 3: of abduction or phenomenon. And she read a page and
Speaker 3: just put it down as says, I don't want to
Speaker 3: do it. Yeah, so yeah, she hasn't been I think
Speaker 3: rillings so much to explore it and regression, I'm not sure. Yeah,
Speaker 3: if she would be open to.
Speaker 2: It, yeah, but I know a few people that I'm
Speaker 2: close to, one that will not do it, does not
Speaker 2: want to know. Yeah, and I can understand that way
Speaker 2: of thinking mostself.
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. I respect her opinion. It's funny because, yeah,
Speaker 3: obviously that's all I spend my time reading and researching
Speaker 3: about that aspect. I'm very interested in that component too.
Speaker 3: So to see her and see how it affected her,
Speaker 3: I think it paints it in a different light. How
Speaker 3: real you know, these kind of experiences can be. And
Speaker 3: also you know how traumatic maybe as well, when you
Speaker 3: know things are out of your control in that sense.
Speaker 2: I couldn't bear that, Yeah, I mean, if I really
Speaker 2: think about it. So, yeah, this is all really interesting.
Speaker 2: I love that this is a family story. Yeah, thank
Speaker 2: you so much for sharing all this. Now let's go
Speaker 2: into other things that you're interested in. Australia's got some
Speaker 2: great cases. I know I mentioned this every single time
Speaker 2: I have someone from Australia on my show. But you're
Speaker 2: like the second largest audience between the second and third.
Speaker 2: It bounces back and forth between the UK and Australia.
Speaker 2: It's America first and then Australia with twenty six million
Speaker 2: people or whatever it is. Somehow it is my second largest.
Speaker 2: So Hi, everyone down down Under the.
Speaker 3: Big supporters of real work. So that would be why.
Speaker 3: So absolutely, oh oh thank you.
Speaker 2: And so let's talk about some other cases that fascinate you.
Speaker 2: And there's some great ones, and you know I've had
Speaker 2: Bill talking about some that are fascinating. But let me
Speaker 2: just put it this way. Are there some obscure cases
Speaker 2: that we don't really hear about a lot that has
Speaker 2: piqued your interests or is it just like a lot
Speaker 2: of the mean ones that like West Isle and things
Speaker 2: like that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's an interesting question because obviously I think the
Speaker 3: main Australian cases get a lot of attention. You know,
Speaker 3: West all in particular because it's a mass sighting, but
Speaker 3: I think, you know, with someone like Bill who's done
Speaker 3: a lot of work personally investigating a lot more remote
Speaker 3: or just individual cases across the board, you start to see,
Speaker 3: and as I've started to do this myself with speaking
Speaker 3: to people, that there's an incredible amount of high strangeness
Speaker 3: and obscurity in a lot of the individual cases of
Speaker 3: people that are experiences. And there's a great case which
Speaker 3: is sort of I guess an early abductee you would call.
Speaker 3: And Bill's probably done documented this, and it's in his
Speaker 3: book Care of the Ailing, but it's one of my favorites.
Speaker 3: And her name's Vicky Klein, and she lives sort of
Speaker 3: just outside the capital of Australia, and this is in
Speaker 3: the sort of early seventies. But her actual case was
Speaker 3: documented and researched by someone called Harry Turner, who was
Speaker 3: saying was investigating UFO cases at Woomera, and all the
Speaker 3: sort of indicators around her experiences seemed to fall into
Speaker 3: the classic kind of abduction narrative, but also with other
Speaker 3: stranger aspects as well. And for example, one night her
Speaker 3: neighbor comes back out and there's two entities out in
Speaker 3: Vicki's property there in the backyard, and this is the
Speaker 3: neighbor that's seeing this, And one of them is sort
Speaker 3: of like a humanoid, but the other one has like
Speaker 3: the face of a dog, but it's a human like entity,
Speaker 3: and they're both sort of their standing, yeah, like a
Speaker 3: dog man sort of they're smiling at her in the darkness,
Speaker 3: and they sort of just start to drift off and disappear,
Speaker 3: and you go into i think her personal experiences and
Speaker 3: so many of the things that happen with presences and
Speaker 3: poltergeist activity and the psychic aspects, and I think you
Speaker 3: really start to look at those cases where the individual
Speaker 3: is sort of having these extraordinary experiences. Many UFO experiences
Speaker 3: in that sense, have these sort of paranormal psychic encounters,
Speaker 3: and that's really what interests me, and I've been putting
Speaker 3: a lot of my time and effort into exploring those
Speaker 3: aspects of what happens to individuals once the sort of
Speaker 3: reality starts to break around you. So there's many, I
Speaker 3: think stories to be told for personal cases, but it
Speaker 3: doesn't necessarily all just fall into the classic UFO technology
Speaker 3: phenomenon that we look at a.
Speaker 2: Lot now I've never asked this of anyone from Australia.
Speaker 2: And when you just mentioned the dark man type creature cryptid,
Speaker 2: are there people that report cryptids and has anyone? I
Speaker 2: don't even know what would be called there. We call
Speaker 2: it bigfoot subsquare, Yeah, yawi yahwi, that's right. I have
Speaker 2: heard that before. So there is reports of the yahwi
Speaker 2: And is it similar to the bigfoot and form.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's very similar. So the indigenous call them the
Speaker 3: hairy men, that's their word for them. But yeah, yaoi
Speaker 3: signings are absolutely a thing and cryptids in Australia and
Speaker 3: Australian indigenous culture has a long history of cryptids documented
Speaker 3: in their dreaming or their sort of historical accounts of experiences.
Speaker 2: But there are.
Speaker 3: Many similarities, I think between the yaoi encounters that we
Speaker 3: have in Australia and what you might call the highest
Speaker 3: strangeness around bigfoot sasquatch yei here in North America. And
Speaker 3: again it sort of falls into that kind of high
Speaker 3: strangeness aspect where people might have an overwhelming sense of
Speaker 3: fear come across them. They might have a dream, a
Speaker 3: pre cognitive dream about a yaoui being outside their tent
Speaker 3: and they wake up and then he's actually out there
Speaker 3: the next morning, or this strange sort of overlap with
Speaker 3: orbs being seen prior to an encounter with the Yaoui
Speaker 3: as well. Yeah, So one of the strangest cases I
Speaker 3: heard was someone had gone to basically track down a
Speaker 3: yaoi and had maybe set up cams to try and
Speaker 3: get footage, and was going out there to the cams
Speaker 3: and they heard they felt an overwhelming sense of fear
Speaker 3: overcome them when they were there, going out to change
Speaker 3: the cams there, and they didn't understand why, but they
Speaker 3: got in their car and turned around and drove back
Speaker 3: home and didn't want to do it. And the next
Speaker 3: morning they were dreaming that something was banging on the
Speaker 3: outside of their house wall and it was a sort
Speaker 3: of roaring sound. And when they woke up, something was
Speaker 3: banging on the outside of their household and the wall
Speaker 3: was shaking and there was a giant roar, and they
Speaker 3: went outside and checked it out and there was nothing there.
Speaker 3: But the neighbors had also heard this as well, and
Speaker 3: even though nothing was seen or confirmed, it's an interesting
Speaker 3: case in the sense that it sort of ties into
Speaker 3: that whole kind of consciousness dreams aspects, which falls into
Speaker 3: the phenomenon we see so often, but yet it seems
Speaker 3: to maybe be associated with a sort of crypt did encounter.
Speaker 2: She's that's really amazing. So we talked about West soul
Speaker 2: I know you went there, right, I did?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I went there recently.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was that experience because that was the sixtieth anniversary.
Speaker 3: Sixtieth anniversary. Yeah, it was fabulous seeing all the witnesses
Speaker 3: speak firsthand, and you know, being there, And was Irene
Speaker 3: there as well? Yes, I believe so, Yeah, I believe so.
Speaker 2: I think she told me she's going to mutual friend.
Speaker 2: Iren Previn's been on this show a number of times
Speaker 2: and I met her years ago in Phoenix.
Speaker 3: But she's great.
Speaker 2: Yeah, she is great. And what was that like talking
Speaker 2: to those people at West Saule.
Speaker 3: Yeah, fascinating. The thing that really interested me was one
Speaker 3: of the witnesses who had passed away who wasn't there.
Speaker 3: It was called Victor Zakrusni, and he had actually witnessed
Speaker 3: one of the UFO's, two of them land just next
Speaker 3: door to the school prior to the whole Grange landing
Speaker 3: as well, so just over the fence that allegedly were
Speaker 3: two classic silver discs right there on the ground, and
Speaker 3: he'd hop the fence and there were other kids on
Speaker 3: the fence there, allegedly, and he'd gone up to it
Speaker 3: and was dis close, you know, putting his hand out.
Speaker 2: I knew that before.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he held his hand out and he could feel
Speaker 3: the heat.
Speaker 2: Was that talked about before? And I just didn't hear it.
Speaker 3: It has been documented, Yeah, it has been. It's probably
Speaker 3: it's not as covered because it was a bit of
Speaker 3: an outlier compared to some of the A lot of
Speaker 3: the main witnesses excuse me, shared a sort of similar
Speaker 3: account about what they'd seen, where it took off, where
Speaker 3: it landed, and this was an outlier. But some of
Speaker 3: the work Shane Ryan had done recently, Yeah, fantastic researcher,
Speaker 3: which he presented at the Worst Fall Sixties Anniversary, confirmed
Speaker 3: that there were multiple witnesses that were actually had seen
Speaker 3: this event as well that victors of Cusny had described
Speaker 3: and experienced with them being on the ground prior to
Speaker 3: actually going to the grange and landing. Also, so the
Speaker 3: thing that stood out to me, which James Rigney pointed
Speaker 3: out to me, he gave me a map and showed
Speaker 3: me the different landing sites where they all believe that
Speaker 3: the craft had come down at different points and landed,
Speaker 3: that none of them could agree on the location of
Speaker 3: where it had happened. That every single person had a
Speaker 3: different understanding about where they thought the Fine Saurce had
Speaker 3: landed at different times.
Speaker 2: That's not surprising if you really think about how memory
Speaker 2: you rebuild tebrary time you rethink of something, it can
Speaker 2: be off a little bit and then off a little more,
Speaker 2: and the next time you think about it enough a
Speaker 2: little more true. True.
Speaker 3: Well, the funny thing was is that some of the sightings,
Speaker 3: though were very far apart. The one next to the
Speaker 3: school was completely different to the grange, which is, you know,
Speaker 3: like a five hundred meters example, across the road down
Speaker 3: into where the pine trees are, and some of the
Speaker 3: witnesses that had claimed to have seen the actual craft
Speaker 3: moving through the trees as if moving through the actual
Speaker 3: logs really that straight through it like a hologram almost
Speaker 3: to actually landing in that range area as well. But
Speaker 3: there was there's there's hundreds of witnesses that saw this
Speaker 3: event in the sky and the maneuvers that were seen,
Speaker 3: so it was popping out of existence appearing again zigzagging.
Speaker 3: A plane had come down, a little cessna and there's
Speaker 3: a Moravian airport which is close by, and this UFO
Speaker 3: was playing with it. It was chasing at this plane.
Speaker 3: It was, yeah, playing like a game of cat and mouse,
Speaker 3: and and more little cessna like planes appeared. But the
Speaker 3: strangest thing about that is there is no record or
Speaker 3: any indication that there were planes from the airport in
Speaker 3: the sky at that time. No one can seem to
Speaker 3: find out who those planes were, who they belonged to,
Speaker 3: where they came from. So again it sort of plays
Speaker 3: into this whole idea of the UFO potentially being almost
Speaker 3: performative in nature and plane to putting on a show
Speaker 3: for the spectators. Because when you're at Westall and you're
Speaker 3: on the ground there at the school on the oval
Speaker 3: where it happened, you look up and it's all sky.
Speaker 3: It's all right there. Like I was standing there looking
Speaker 3: at it, and I thought, this is a great viewing
Speaker 3: spot for a UFO encounter. And even the pine trees
Speaker 3: where they are where the UFO actually landed, it looks
Speaker 3: like a beacon, so it sort of stands out. It's
Speaker 3: like a landmark and I think about how the UFO
Speaker 3: went down there and went to the pine trees and
Speaker 3: went and landed in there, and they were all watching
Speaker 3: it from the oval. They knew exactly where that UFO
Speaker 3: was going based off the trees where to go. It's
Speaker 3: all flat except for the pines.
Speaker 2: Now, I neglected sometimes I forget about this that there
Speaker 2: are people, you know, there's a lot of people listening
Speaker 2: to this podcast, so listened to it for a long
Speaker 2: time and know about this case. But there are new
Speaker 2: people getting into it all the time, and they neglected
Speaker 2: to have you give the nutshell for this, you know,
Speaker 2: for the newcomer. So if you don't mind and bearwethers
Speaker 2: people that know about this case, if you can just
Speaker 2: do a real brief over there, big version of this.
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay. So April sixty April sixth, nineteen sixty six,
Speaker 3: there's a cold couple classes of kids out on the oval,
Speaker 3: the school oval. It's early in the morning and one
Speaker 3: to two three maybe classic sources flying sources looked like
Speaker 3: two silver mechallic discs put together, came down over the
Speaker 3: oval and were so low at one point for some
Speaker 3: of the kids that they were in line with the
Speaker 3: tree tops or the goalposts. They appeared there. Pandemonium broke out.
Speaker 3: Some of the kids went running into the school and
Speaker 3: were screaming that there's flying sources out on the yard.
Speaker 3: Before you knew it, you had hundreds of kids out
Speaker 3: on the oval. They're watching this event. And as we said,
Speaker 3: there's different UFOs. There's discrepancies in how many UFOs were present,
Speaker 3: but one to three is the indicator. And a science
Speaker 3: teacher called Andrew Greenwood came out of his class to
Speaker 3: watch what was happening as well, and he had actually
Speaker 3: witnessed this event as well where these sources were there.
Speaker 3: They were popping out of existence, zigzagging around doing incredible things,
Speaker 3: and everyone was in there watching and then planes came
Speaker 3: down chase some of these UFOs right in front of
Speaker 3: the school. I watched this event play out. Then two
Speaker 3: of them, one to two allegedly landed in an area
Speaker 3: called the Grange, which was sort of a forest pine
Speaker 3: area five hundred meters back down there on the ground,
Speaker 3: and the kids took off, some of them to chase
Speaker 3: and go and actually find the UFO and arrived to
Speaker 3: see some claim at taking off. The three of them
Speaker 3: synked up in form and then took off together any
Speaker 3: trace case. So from the accounts we have from a
Speaker 3: lot of the kids, the military intervened within twenty minutes,
Speaker 3: allegedly some forty. They were there on the site quick
Speaker 3: they shut it down. They were burning grass, removing material
Speaker 3: in the areas where the sources were claimed to have landed.
Speaker 3: But nothing happened to you, but nothing, nothing happened. And
Speaker 3: I think Westall is a great example of the idea
Speaker 3: that people say there isn't to cover up. Yeah, no
Speaker 3: one knows exactly what occurred with the flying sources, but
Speaker 3: I think everyone generally sort of understands that the military
Speaker 3: or whoever was in charge of that operation moved to
Speaker 3: shut that down quickly. And Andrew Greenwood, who was the teacher,
Speaker 3: had none didn't you take a picture, Andrew Greenwood?
Speaker 2: Someone took a photo, So sorry, that's all right.
Speaker 3: So that was James Kibble and that was four days prior.
Speaker 3: The photo, the ball one photo that was taken four
Speaker 3: days prior. He saw that object moving in the sky.
Speaker 2: Oh okay, I'm sorry to confuse No, No, that's okay.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the ball one photo. But it's in the same area,
Speaker 3: and there's been a lot of associations that, you know,
Speaker 3: maybe it is related to the Westall case. We can't
Speaker 3: confirm that. Obviously, that's a great photo, too, fantastic. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: and I think once you know the history and the
Speaker 3: context around who James Kibble is, who he was with,
Speaker 3: and that photo occurring, I think there's probably a lot
Speaker 3: of people who are serious researchers who have looked at
Speaker 3: that photo believe that's a credible photo, and then it's legitimate.
Speaker 3: And I think people say it looks so hokey, you know,
Speaker 3: it almost looks that kind of looks too good, like yeah,
Speaker 3: like an upside down bowl with a little great nub
Speaker 3: on top.
Speaker 2: I think, And it's going people not at all. Well,
Speaker 2: just we only have a couple of minutes, so I
Speaker 2: just want to ask you. I remember there was a
Speaker 2: girl that kind of was gone the next day and
Speaker 2: never came back to school, but she has been located.
Speaker 2: Do I have that rate?
Speaker 3: That's right? Yeah, And I don't think it's as mysterious
Speaker 3: as always brought out to be from what I understand,
Speaker 3: but yeah, it's I think it's sort of probably played
Speaker 3: into the we were called conspiracy, not conspiracy, but yeah,
Speaker 3: the mythology around the whole experience or account, which I
Speaker 3: think naturally happens when there was such a heavy military
Speaker 3: presence and clearly an effort to shut down.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a story.
Speaker 3: You know. They went to Andrew Greenwood's home and they
Speaker 3: told him if you talk about this, you know, we'll
Speaker 3: ruin your career. We'll tell everyone you're an alcoholic and
Speaker 3: you'll never work again.
Speaker 2: That's just horrible.
Speaker 3: And he was just an innocent yes, you know, man
Speaker 3: who was there, who had witnessed something extraordinary as a teacher.
Speaker 3: And we you know, as research is there in Australia,
Speaker 3: we wonder how there can be no documented accounts or
Speaker 3: evidence of this case given what happened. There was such
Speaker 3: an extraordinary event, so there has to be a report
Speaker 3: somewhere someplace maybe that confirms what occurred, or maybe what
Speaker 3: the military were really there for.
Speaker 2: To spent a real pleasure and it's so much fun
Speaker 2: to hang out with you, and we've had some great
Speaker 2: conversations over the last two days. So anyway, thank you
Speaker 2: so much for.
Speaker 3: We have Indeed, no, thank you, mim. It's been great mate,
Speaker 3: I've really enjoyed it, so thank you for taking the.
Speaker 2: Time you've bet. Yeah, it's great and we'll be in touch.
Speaker 2: Hope to have you back again one day. How can
Speaker 2: we be virtual and to go down under it?
Speaker 3: That's right, we'll see it then, all right, take care,