1 00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:08,640 Speaker 1: What is up, fellow sickos. I am Dana Valley coming 2 00:00:08,679 --> 00:00:12,439 at you with my certified fan fabulous and powering through 3 00:00:12,919 --> 00:00:14,800 an illness because he worked out too hard. I want 4 00:00:14,839 --> 00:00:16,800 n't tell you that he couldn't that he caught above 5 00:00:16,839 --> 00:00:19,160 you or something. He was working out way too hard, 6 00:00:19,160 --> 00:00:22,519 that that training for the World's Strongest Man CrossFit competition 7 00:00:22,559 --> 00:00:25,079 that I didn't know existed. He's really ramping it up. 8 00:00:25,440 --> 00:00:28,600 That's Grant Hughes. We are here to do our mega 9 00:00:28,879 --> 00:00:31,519 award show at the season's quarter poll. We thought it 10 00:00:31,519 --> 00:00:33,799 was a good idea before I ask you how you're 11 00:00:33,799 --> 00:00:36,560 feeling and doing, Grant, just because no other podcast or 12 00:00:36,560 --> 00:00:39,640 writer or blogger or reporter has done any Awards content 13 00:00:40,119 --> 00:00:41,600 just yet, so it just made a ton of sense 14 00:00:41,640 --> 00:00:44,679 to do one. So I feel like that's just super 15 00:00:44,759 --> 00:00:46,520 unique and not something that any of other podcast is 16 00:00:46,560 --> 00:00:49,359 doing right now. So hat tip to us, mister Hughes. 17 00:00:49,520 --> 00:00:51,759 Before we get started, how are you doing? Are you 18 00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:53,719 nervous that you're sick? And are you nervous because when's 19 00:00:53,719 --> 00:00:55,399 the last time we streamed anything live? 20 00:00:55,560 --> 00:00:59,679 Speaker 2: Yeah, I was gonna say no no bad words one 21 00:00:59,719 --> 00:01:05,719 because I'm I'm I'm powering through it's like, I don't 22 00:01:05,719 --> 00:01:07,439 want to complain about it. We're you know what, we 23 00:01:07,519 --> 00:01:09,879 all we all give what we got on the day, Dan, 24 00:01:10,120 --> 00:01:12,560 and so this is what this is what, this is 25 00:01:12,560 --> 00:01:16,200 what you're gonna get. I would say that this is 26 00:01:16,239 --> 00:01:18,439 in fact, I know you're being facetious. This is in 27 00:01:18,480 --> 00:01:21,920 fact unique because everybody has already done their Quarter of 28 00:01:21,959 --> 00:01:24,519 the Way awards and we're the only ones doing them now, 29 00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:27,200 so we have more time to get them right. 30 00:01:27,599 --> 00:01:31,040 Speaker 1: We publish NBA content on the weekends during football season 31 00:01:31,079 --> 00:01:33,719 because that's clearly the most popular time to post your 32 00:01:33,799 --> 00:01:34,439 NBA content. 33 00:01:34,519 --> 00:01:35,719 Speaker 2: We understand our audience. 34 00:01:35,760 --> 00:01:38,359 Speaker 1: I think I think we get it. Uh this, I'm 35 00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:40,159 nervous to thank you for asking how I'm doing? 36 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:40,719 Speaker 2: How are you doing? 37 00:01:40,719 --> 00:01:43,000 Speaker 1: How are you doing? I'm a little bit it's not nervous. 38 00:01:43,040 --> 00:01:45,680 I'm so you know that like in post, like I 39 00:01:45,719 --> 00:01:47,560 cut out a lot of stuff. It's like people are 40 00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:50,079 gonna have to see the graphics transitions that would otherwise 41 00:01:50,120 --> 00:01:52,239 be cut out. So that's making me a little bit 42 00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:54,799 sad since we're streaming. But other than that, I'm doing okay. 43 00:01:54,840 --> 00:01:58,280 These This is always stressful to do, and we'll have 44 00:01:58,359 --> 00:02:02,079 some like criteria no when we get to the individual categories. 45 00:02:02,120 --> 00:02:05,040 But I approached it as did you. As the NBA 46 00:02:05,159 --> 00:02:08,759 season is ending right now on December seventh, this is 47 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:10,680 who we would pick to win. I'm not trying to 48 00:02:10,680 --> 00:02:12,159 predict to will win at the end of the season 49 00:02:12,199 --> 00:02:14,199 right now, and I'm also not trying to predict what 50 00:02:14,280 --> 00:02:16,639 other media members with votes might be doing. 51 00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:19,599 Speaker 2: Right Yeah, it's it's as if these are like the 52 00:02:19,599 --> 00:02:22,319 first quarter awards. Basically, it's just like and we'll have 53 00:02:22,360 --> 00:02:26,360 discussions about in some cases how how these things might 54 00:02:26,439 --> 00:02:29,280 change if you were asking us to predict, you know, 55 00:02:29,439 --> 00:02:32,240 who's actually going to win the real award, you know, 56 00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:34,280 at the end of the season. I think our list 57 00:02:34,319 --> 00:02:37,800 would look pretty different. So that, yes, yes, exactly. That 58 00:02:37,919 --> 00:02:40,759 keep in mind that like, for example, our all NBA 59 00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:42,840 teams are not a list of the five best players 60 00:02:42,840 --> 00:02:44,800 in the NBA. They're the list of the guys we 61 00:02:44,879 --> 00:02:47,120 think have been the best through the first quarter of 62 00:02:47,120 --> 00:02:48,719 the season. It's a very different thing. 63 00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:51,159 Speaker 1: And I think because this Dovetails will start with MVP 64 00:02:51,280 --> 00:02:53,240 and go into All NBA for at least, the way 65 00:02:53,280 --> 00:02:55,439 I approach it and you might approach it a little differently, 66 00:02:55,599 --> 00:02:59,000 is there is a separation between All NBA and value 67 00:02:59,039 --> 00:03:01,360 to me, where I think that you can be more 68 00:03:01,479 --> 00:03:04,840 valuable to a team, whereas when it comes to all NBA, 69 00:03:05,039 --> 00:03:07,800 I'm viewing it more. That's more individual value to me 70 00:03:08,120 --> 00:03:09,639 to where it's I'm not looking at oh, if you 71 00:03:09,680 --> 00:03:11,479 pull this player off this team or look at how 72 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:14,479 much his team has surprised around him. Necessarily that's part 73 00:03:14,479 --> 00:03:17,080 of the equation, But I'm looking at the numbers their 74 00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:19,479 performance in their role more than I am. With MVP. 75 00:03:19,599 --> 00:03:22,000 It feels like you have to take into account just 76 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:24,719 more aggregate factors of like well, the on offs. Of course, 77 00:03:24,719 --> 00:03:26,439 everyone loves the on offs when it comes to that 78 00:03:26,479 --> 00:03:29,120 as an instance, I don't know that that should impact 79 00:03:29,520 --> 00:03:31,919 for me. It does not impact my All NBA selections 80 00:03:31,919 --> 00:03:34,599 as much. I'm also more inclined to unless the player 81 00:03:34,599 --> 00:03:36,479 has been really great like I'm and you'll see this 82 00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:39,240 on my third team, Like minutes played matters at the 83 00:03:39,319 --> 00:03:41,560 end of the day, and if players are tracking towards eligibility, 84 00:03:41,560 --> 00:03:43,520 that matters. But this is the quarter season, and so 85 00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:45,680 if they've played what I deem enough minutes right now, 86 00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:48,599 I'm gonna pick them, Especially once you get outside the 87 00:03:48,639 --> 00:03:52,919 first team territory. Yeah, fair, are we ready to get started? 88 00:03:52,960 --> 00:03:56,560 Then let's get into it and with MVP. Do you 89 00:03:56,599 --> 00:03:59,400 want to take us through through your ballot, mister Hughes. 90 00:03:59,680 --> 00:04:03,240 Speaker 2: Yes, So, I mean number one is Nikola Jokic. I like, 91 00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:05,840 I don't know really how much we need to say it. 92 00:04:06,039 --> 00:04:08,280 Just he's been the best player in the league for 93 00:04:08,319 --> 00:04:10,960 a long time. That's as true as ever, maybe more 94 00:04:11,000 --> 00:04:13,400 true this season than even some of the years he's 95 00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:15,719 won it in the past. The on off stuff is 96 00:04:16,040 --> 00:04:20,720 remains just absurd, Like the thing I gravitated towards among 97 00:04:20,759 --> 00:04:22,879 the many stats you could point out, you know, we've 98 00:04:22,879 --> 00:04:25,360 seen several times this year people are tallying up like 99 00:04:25,399 --> 00:04:27,680 where he ranks in points, rebounds, and assists per game, 100 00:04:27,759 --> 00:04:30,199 and his odds at you know, a triple crown, which 101 00:04:30,199 --> 00:04:33,240 basically never happens. I just look at Denver being thirty 102 00:04:33,279 --> 00:04:36,199 point nine points per hunter better on offense when he plays, 103 00:04:36,519 --> 00:04:38,160 and for a minute there he was on pace. He 104 00:04:38,199 --> 00:04:41,279 may still be there to just essentially have the biggest 105 00:04:41,319 --> 00:04:44,160 on off impact on an offense that anyone's ever had, 106 00:04:44,800 --> 00:04:47,439 and he's basically just competing with himself in past years 107 00:04:47,439 --> 00:04:50,000 for that honor. So I like what else, what else 108 00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:52,519 do you say for Jokic? And then after that, I've 109 00:04:52,560 --> 00:04:57,399 got SGA, Tatum, Giannis and I guess you know, I've 110 00:04:57,439 --> 00:05:01,199 got Franz fifth and basically that's my NBA team. But 111 00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:04,240 I think maybe that's when we could talk about because 112 00:05:04,279 --> 00:05:07,480 we are in lockstep essentially on you know, one, two 113 00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:09,519 and three, and then we just swapped four and five 114 00:05:09,720 --> 00:05:11,399 right very quickly. 115 00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:13,879 Speaker 1: On the Jokic front, though didn't judge by the way, 116 00:05:13,920 --> 00:05:17,879 Sorry to jump ahead, but yeah, yeah, so Jokic. The 117 00:05:17,959 --> 00:05:20,040 Nuggets are out scoring posts by twelve point four points 118 00:05:20,040 --> 00:05:22,279 per one hundred posessions when he's on the court. That's 119 00:05:22,399 --> 00:05:25,240 less than like the Celtics with Tatum at thirteen point seven, 120 00:05:25,600 --> 00:05:28,120 less than the Thunder with Sga fifteen point eight. But 121 00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:29,920 it's like, it's more than the Spurs with Wemby. It's 122 00:05:29,920 --> 00:05:31,879 more than the Dubs with Steph. It's more than the 123 00:05:31,879 --> 00:05:33,759 Wolves with Ann It's more than the Cavs even with 124 00:05:33,759 --> 00:05:36,199 Evan Mobley. It's definitely more than the Bucks. With Giannis. 125 00:05:36,439 --> 00:05:40,040 The fact that he shoulders, they forget about the actual 126 00:05:40,079 --> 00:05:41,680 on off stuff when he is on the court. A 127 00:05:41,720 --> 00:05:46,279 Nuggets team that has no business contending without him plays 128 00:05:46,319 --> 00:05:48,600 like an actual Like if you just could play and 129 00:05:48,639 --> 00:05:51,160 I can guarantee you Nicole Yokich wouldn't get tired or injured, 130 00:05:51,399 --> 00:05:53,680 and you played him all forty eight minutes, you'd probably 131 00:05:53,720 --> 00:05:55,480 consider the Nuggets like one of the two or three 132 00:05:55,519 --> 00:05:58,519 foremost threats to win the championship. And that's a hell 133 00:05:58,560 --> 00:06:00,519 of a feather under his cap. When you look at 134 00:06:00,519 --> 00:06:03,879 the supporting cast, yep fair, I would say, so our 135 00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:06,240 difference here are just sga. I think it's obvious. I 136 00:06:06,279 --> 00:06:08,759 think you could qubble over between him or Tatum. Tatum's 137 00:06:08,839 --> 00:06:12,079 leveled up his playmaking. I still view shake Gill Alexander 138 00:06:12,079 --> 00:06:15,199 as the more valuable playmaker and self starter on offense. 139 00:06:15,240 --> 00:06:17,680 And I don't think the defense of If you think 140 00:06:17,680 --> 00:06:20,560 Tatum is the better defender because of his size, I 141 00:06:20,639 --> 00:06:22,759 don't think that the defensive gap that was big enough 142 00:06:22,759 --> 00:06:26,040 to just shoot him over. And then so look, Franz belong. 143 00:06:26,120 --> 00:06:29,240 Let's start with Franz belongs on this ballot. To me, 144 00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:32,959 the Magic without Polo on the court this season are 145 00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:35,439 outscoring opponents by nine point six points per one hundred. 146 00:06:35,480 --> 00:06:38,879 With Franz on the court, he has been spect I 147 00:06:38,920 --> 00:06:41,519 think some people aren't thrilled. But we've seen, Okay, the 148 00:06:41,560 --> 00:06:44,639 three point efficiency has ticked up relative to some years past. 149 00:06:44,959 --> 00:06:47,439 But when you look at the level of self creation 150 00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:50,560 he's shouldering, his efficiency on those looks is not as 151 00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:53,360 good as some of what would be his contemporaries. But 152 00:06:53,439 --> 00:06:55,439 to me, that would be a discussion more so for 153 00:06:55,519 --> 00:06:57,800 all NBA because when you're looking at just the results 154 00:06:58,040 --> 00:07:01,360 being driven here, like the Magic are a team that's 155 00:07:01,360 --> 00:07:03,480 still floating near the top of the Eastern Conference without 156 00:07:03,560 --> 00:07:06,000 who's supposed to be their best player. And I think 157 00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:07,879 the thing that stands out the most to me, aside 158 00:07:07,879 --> 00:07:11,040 from him shouldering a huge offensive burden while being an 159 00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:15,279 active participant in a good defense, is the playmaking here. 160 00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:18,000 And so we went over some other playmaking stats with 161 00:07:18,079 --> 00:07:20,800 him in our most Improved stuff. But grant this is 162 00:07:20,839 --> 00:07:23,839 per b Ball Index. Here's every player in the ninety 163 00:07:23,839 --> 00:07:27,519 fifth percentile or better of true usage, which incorporates passing 164 00:07:27,519 --> 00:07:30,560 and potential assists and then passing quality. So like the 165 00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:33,040 quality of the shots that you're setting up for your 166 00:07:33,240 --> 00:07:36,959 your teammates Luca, Steph, jaw Tree, Young and Franz. 167 00:07:37,839 --> 00:07:40,879 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's just like who's got less help you know, 168 00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:44,160 you know that's the other thing is just the that's 169 00:07:44,199 --> 00:07:46,079 an insane stat in a vacuum. And then when you 170 00:07:46,160 --> 00:07:50,519 consider the supporting cast and like the attention that is 171 00:07:50,560 --> 00:07:54,000 being paid to guys around Frond, so like the theoretically 172 00:07:54,519 --> 00:07:57,240 like it should be harder to create quality shots because 173 00:07:57,319 --> 00:08:01,360 you're just being swarmed because there's no that opposing defenses 174 00:08:01,399 --> 00:08:03,399 are all that scared of on the magic. So the 175 00:08:03,480 --> 00:08:06,519 degree of difficulty I think really really recommends Franz and 176 00:08:06,519 --> 00:08:08,319 you've got him higher than I do an MVP, so 177 00:08:08,879 --> 00:08:11,120 I think I'm preaching to the choir on that one. 178 00:08:11,959 --> 00:08:13,519 Speaker 1: We do have a difference when it gets to the 179 00:08:13,519 --> 00:08:15,839 fifth spot. So what was I don't think it's you 180 00:08:15,839 --> 00:08:18,199 don't have to like justify this, but you have Yiannis 181 00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:19,720 at four here. 182 00:08:20,879 --> 00:08:23,240 Speaker 2: I just think, you know, defensively, I don't think giannest 183 00:08:23,319 --> 00:08:25,800 is where he was. I do think that's being discussed 184 00:08:25,959 --> 00:08:29,079 more and more, and I think it's fair. But you know, 185 00:08:29,160 --> 00:08:31,279 the mid Rangers falling, that's been the big story of 186 00:08:31,279 --> 00:08:34,000 this season. How much that matters ultimately is hard to say. 187 00:08:34,039 --> 00:08:35,960 I think defenses are still happy when he shoots that, 188 00:08:36,039 --> 00:08:39,720 but he's just been so insanely productive and has continued 189 00:08:39,759 --> 00:08:43,120 to be like, you know, one of the hardest playing superstars, 190 00:08:43,159 --> 00:08:47,159 which is just like Janis has not fallen fallen off 191 00:08:47,279 --> 00:08:50,879 enough defensively for me to like for me to ignore 192 00:08:50,919 --> 00:08:55,120 the thirty ten and six just two you know, the 193 00:08:56,799 --> 00:09:01,080 like clockwork production. He still is. He's a top five 194 00:09:01,080 --> 00:09:04,200 player in the league to me, even with some slippage defensively, 195 00:09:04,279 --> 00:09:07,679 so I just I couldn't leave him off. Actually, like 196 00:09:08,200 --> 00:09:12,399 the the trickier decision for me wasn't like I think 197 00:09:12,519 --> 00:09:15,960 SGA was pretty clearly too, and then it was gonna 198 00:09:15,960 --> 00:09:17,960 be Honest or Tatum for three and four. I went 199 00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:20,720 with Tatum third, just because I actually think you can 200 00:09:20,799 --> 00:09:23,360 make the case he's been more valuable defensively because he's 201 00:09:23,399 --> 00:09:26,120 guarding centers like all the time for the Celtics, which 202 00:09:26,159 --> 00:09:28,919 is difficult and should be snapping his legs. And he's 203 00:09:28,960 --> 00:09:32,240 still just been exceptionally valuable on offense. His distribution Talking 204 00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:34,600 about Tatum, because we haven't really mentioned him much, has 205 00:09:34,639 --> 00:09:38,279 been like otherworldly, just even in the game against the 206 00:09:38,320 --> 00:09:42,399 Bucks last night, just making passes, extremely difficult passes to 207 00:09:42,519 --> 00:09:45,440 set guys up. He's hit a new level there. So 208 00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:49,159 Jannis four, and then I so, I really, what I 209 00:09:49,200 --> 00:09:52,159 think we need to talk about is you have Steph 210 00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:54,200 on your ballot and I don't in the top five. 211 00:09:54,960 --> 00:09:58,799 Why don't you just volume I think, and like, you know, 212 00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:01,159 if it's well, here's what I want to say. 213 00:10:01,559 --> 00:10:03,399 Speaker 1: Is that the one thing I'm gonna say though, because 214 00:10:03,399 --> 00:10:05,320 I thought about that too. He's played like seventy five 215 00:10:05,320 --> 00:10:06,440 minutes less than Yannis. 216 00:10:06,759 --> 00:10:09,559 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, so for me it was Steph or Franz 217 00:10:09,559 --> 00:10:12,519 because I wasn't gonna leave Giannis off there. Like, so 218 00:10:13,039 --> 00:10:16,799 it's just the case, like if you said who would 219 00:10:16,799 --> 00:10:18,519 you rather have for the rest of the year, it's 220 00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:21,240 Steph over Franz. Like that's not a hard question. Who's 221 00:10:21,240 --> 00:10:23,840 the better player in a vacuum, like just for how 222 00:10:23,879 --> 00:10:27,600 whatever the next you know, next week, next month. Just objectively, 223 00:10:27,600 --> 00:10:30,320 I think Steph is better. I think he impacts winning more. 224 00:10:31,120 --> 00:10:33,879 That just hasn't been the case so far. And I'm trying, 225 00:10:34,120 --> 00:10:36,879 really trying to stick to the like first quarter, you know, 226 00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:40,399 who's not what they're gonna do or how I view 227 00:10:40,440 --> 00:10:44,159 them in some like non you know, objective sense, but 228 00:10:44,279 --> 00:10:46,320 just who's done it to this point in the season, 229 00:10:46,320 --> 00:10:51,360 and Franz has been just like undeniably incredible with just 230 00:10:51,799 --> 00:10:55,360 a level of responsibility that's new for him. And maybe 231 00:10:55,399 --> 00:10:57,399 I'm like counting that a little too much, and maybe 232 00:10:57,440 --> 00:11:00,360 I'm like letting some of the most improved stuff bleed 233 00:11:00,399 --> 00:11:03,799 into this, But I think Franz has just been so 234 00:11:04,600 --> 00:11:08,440 like stunningly good in a really difficult situation and for 235 00:11:08,480 --> 00:11:11,200 a minute there, like this is how quickly these things change. 236 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:13,120 So put as much stock in him as you want. 237 00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:17,200 He was leading the NBA in EPM and estimated wins. 238 00:11:17,519 --> 00:11:19,879 He's fallen a little bit and those after like just 239 00:11:19,960 --> 00:11:22,080 you know, over twenty four hours or thirty six hours 240 00:11:22,159 --> 00:11:24,919 or whenever it was I last looked. But like, I don't. 241 00:11:25,039 --> 00:11:27,759 I can't just ignore that if we're talking about who's 242 00:11:27,799 --> 00:11:31,879 done what to this point. Right, So Steph better, as 243 00:11:31,919 --> 00:11:34,480 people like to say, but and I agree, but not 244 00:11:34,519 --> 00:11:34,919 so far. 245 00:11:35,559 --> 00:11:39,720 Speaker 1: I just Steph elevated the Warriors to contention level when 246 00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:42,840 he's on the court, and they can't function without him 247 00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:46,320 when he's off, And like the Yannest stuff, I don't. 248 00:11:46,559 --> 00:11:48,519 I still think he's fantastic. Do I think he's one 249 00:11:48,559 --> 00:11:51,159 of the five best players in basketball? Still? Absolutely? And 250 00:11:51,240 --> 00:11:53,039 that'll be reflected when we get to all NBA in 251 00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:55,799 a second. But like I think you're starting to see, 252 00:11:55,879 --> 00:11:59,080 especially because Middleton doesn't come back until Friday, some of 253 00:11:59,120 --> 00:12:01,720 the limitations if he has to be a driver of 254 00:12:01,759 --> 00:12:04,759 the entire offense for longer stretches than you would like, 255 00:12:05,080 --> 00:12:07,320 and how that's going to impact players around him. I 256 00:12:07,360 --> 00:12:09,440 also do think mostly at the beginning of the year, 257 00:12:09,440 --> 00:12:11,679 he's been a part of some of what their defensive 258 00:12:11,720 --> 00:12:14,840 issues were. And I look at Steph Yes, okay, his 259 00:12:14,919 --> 00:12:17,399 defense is no great shakes either. He is a participant 260 00:12:17,440 --> 00:12:19,559 in one of the better defenses in the league, though, 261 00:12:19,919 --> 00:12:22,360 and the fact that he is so valuable on offense 262 00:12:22,440 --> 00:12:24,600 on the ball, away from the ball, you just the 263 00:12:24,639 --> 00:12:26,799 way he bends defenses. I think he's play enough to 264 00:12:26,840 --> 00:12:29,559 be put in there. And like the Warriors offense has 265 00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:32,559 been bad, and when you look at the personnel outside 266 00:12:32,600 --> 00:12:34,639 of him, it probably should be bad. And yet when 267 00:12:34,639 --> 00:12:36,759 he's on the court, they're still just in the seventy 268 00:12:36,759 --> 00:12:38,720 fifth percent tile and they have the net rating of 269 00:12:38,720 --> 00:12:42,480 what would be a bona fide championship contender. So it 270 00:12:42,559 --> 00:12:45,519 was Giannis was clearly the toughest cut, which think now 271 00:12:45,559 --> 00:12:47,080 is a good time to get into our all NBA pick, 272 00:12:47,120 --> 00:12:49,399 So we'll start with mine. My first team does not 273 00:12:49,480 --> 00:12:52,080 mirror my MVP ballot because like I said, I do 274 00:12:52,200 --> 00:12:54,600 believe that you can look more at just the individual 275 00:12:54,679 --> 00:12:57,080 numbers at that point, and so I have Giannis in 276 00:12:57,120 --> 00:12:59,600 there for Franz where it's like he's going to be 277 00:12:59,639 --> 00:13:02,440 the more player. He is still he's slipped on defense, 278 00:13:02,480 --> 00:13:04,399 but he is going to be the better defender, And 279 00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:06,919 like those those numbers are just video game where it's 280 00:13:06,919 --> 00:13:08,879 like who's most likely to just put up like a thirty, 281 00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:11,559 fifteen and six game in the league, it's Yo Kitch 282 00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:14,279 and then Giannis is probably next up. But I have 283 00:13:14,320 --> 00:13:16,480 Yo Kitch on first team SG on first Team Tatum, 284 00:13:16,519 --> 00:13:18,759 which Tatum. I feel like we just gloss over too 285 00:13:18,840 --> 00:13:21,759 much because the Celtics are so known on b Ball 286 00:13:21,799 --> 00:13:24,519 Index if you were just for the context of their role. 287 00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:27,840 He actually leads the NBA in Lebron right now, So 288 00:13:27,879 --> 00:13:30,039 shout out to Jason Tatum for that. I kept step 289 00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:31,799 at one because, like I said, I think he's probably 290 00:13:31,799 --> 00:13:35,240 been like playing time and availability matters, and he's played 291 00:13:35,240 --> 00:13:38,399 it like substantially less than some of these guys. I 292 00:13:38,399 --> 00:13:40,399 still think he's been like the third or fourth most 293 00:13:40,440 --> 00:13:43,679 valuable player in basketball. And then so I have my 294 00:13:43,759 --> 00:13:46,399 second team, I do have Fronz on there, and then 295 00:13:46,480 --> 00:13:48,120 new entries that we didn't really talk about with the 296 00:13:48,200 --> 00:13:51,000 MVP Jalen Brunson. I could see him kind of wedging 297 00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:53,080 his way into an MVP discussion by the way, like 298 00:13:53,120 --> 00:13:56,240 that top five ish like he did last season Anthony Davis. 299 00:13:56,279 --> 00:13:58,440 The numbers are brilliant for the most part. There's been 300 00:13:58,480 --> 00:14:01,360 real defensive slippitche there for him well, but that's look 301 00:14:01,399 --> 00:14:04,120 at the personnel around him for that too. We've seen 302 00:14:04,120 --> 00:14:06,159 some of the offensive numbers slip off, but I think 303 00:14:06,480 --> 00:14:08,399 in the macro he's still been one of the ten 304 00:14:08,440 --> 00:14:13,480 best basketball players this season. Uh, Wemby, I don't like, 305 00:14:13,519 --> 00:14:15,679 what is the what's the case against Wemby is what 306 00:14:16,039 --> 00:14:18,720 will the kids say that that we're glazing right now? 307 00:14:18,759 --> 00:14:21,279 Because he's only in year two. I'm trying to think, 308 00:14:21,559 --> 00:14:24,240 when's the last time And I don't want to speak 309 00:14:24,240 --> 00:14:26,200 for you, but like, when's the last time you considered 310 00:14:26,480 --> 00:14:30,399 a sophomore for second team All NBA? Was it last 311 00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:31,559 year with Jalen Williams. 312 00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:35,120 Speaker 2: This is this is who I hate that you make 313 00:14:35,159 --> 00:14:36,720 that joke because I was like, what would be a 314 00:14:36,720 --> 00:14:38,240 funny thing to say, and that would have been it. 315 00:14:38,679 --> 00:14:40,679 Uh yeah, I know, that's that's a great point, Like 316 00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:43,240 I don't you know, we'll get to it when we 317 00:14:43,360 --> 00:14:46,159 talk about the defense stuff. But it's just Wenby I 318 00:14:46,159 --> 00:14:49,799 think is the offense is good enough, and I think 319 00:14:49,840 --> 00:14:52,720 the three point shooting is intriguing and actually like has 320 00:14:52,799 --> 00:14:55,440 been very effective of late after him not being very 321 00:14:55,480 --> 00:14:58,720 accurate to start the season, and I just like, I 322 00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:01,720 I think if your argument is it's he's a second 323 00:15:01,799 --> 00:15:03,600 year player, it's too soon, that's like, that's not a 324 00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:06,440 real argument. So I think the satistical case is there, 325 00:15:06,519 --> 00:15:09,000 especially as we will talk shortly. I'm sure about some 326 00:15:09,039 --> 00:15:11,120 of the defensive numbers that are just like, there's so 327 00:15:11,159 --> 00:15:14,279 many unheard of things about his defensive profile. 328 00:15:14,360 --> 00:15:17,159 Speaker 1: Right, And it's the thing about his offense is, I 329 00:15:17,480 --> 00:15:19,480 know some people are uncomfortable with the shot profile, but 330 00:15:19,519 --> 00:15:22,600 he shoulders just like a larger self creation burden than 331 00:15:22,600 --> 00:15:24,799 you would expect. I mean, because he's taking those threes, 332 00:15:24,799 --> 00:15:27,840 they're not all like they're not all being generated for him. 333 00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:29,559 And even more of his looks at the rim or 334 00:15:29,559 --> 00:15:31,720 in the paint. Those are self generated more than I 335 00:15:31,720 --> 00:15:33,440 think people give him credit for. So when you are 336 00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:35,960 the best defensive player in the league and you're also 337 00:15:35,960 --> 00:15:39,039 a net positive on offense, like you're all NBA case 338 00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:42,720 lies in that I have j dub on my second team, 339 00:15:42,919 --> 00:15:45,120 I just is this. Can I unleash my J dub 340 00:15:45,120 --> 00:15:46,879 stat now that I was trying to blow your brain, 341 00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:52,120 please please do. Jalen Williams six foot six inch Jail 342 00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:55,519 Willims the Oklahoma City Thunder leaves the league in the 343 00:15:55,600 --> 00:15:59,159 percentage of field goals contested at the rim when he's 344 00:15:59,159 --> 00:16:01,639 on the court. So the percentage of shots that other 345 00:16:01,679 --> 00:16:04,639 teams are taking at the rim, he's contesting fifty seven 346 00:16:04,679 --> 00:16:08,240 point nine percent of those. Grant that leads the league 347 00:16:08,360 --> 00:16:10,799 because the Thunder are so fucking tiny. So when you 348 00:16:10,919 --> 00:16:13,720 are able to play that type of defense and it's 349 00:16:14,039 --> 00:16:16,600 wrapped in an offensive profile, that maybe it's been more 350 00:16:16,639 --> 00:16:20,799 incremental improvement. But he's a more self sustaining offensive player. 351 00:16:20,840 --> 00:16:23,320 After a little bit of a rickety start you've been 352 00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:25,399 I don't know if this will hold. I think guys 353 00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:28,320 like Luca and Edwards will probably be coming for him. Specifically. 354 00:16:28,919 --> 00:16:30,840 To date, I think he's been one of the ten 355 00:16:30,879 --> 00:16:32,960 best players, ten most valuable players, ever you want to 356 00:16:32,960 --> 00:16:35,960 frame it. In basketball, Luca's on the third team. I 357 00:16:35,960 --> 00:16:38,519 don't expect that to stay. I'm not gonna lie. I 358 00:16:38,519 --> 00:16:40,480 feel like he's gonna be someone who bumps up. He's 359 00:16:40,519 --> 00:16:42,799 been playing off the ball more. Looks a little healthier 360 00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:45,159 since he sat out. I think some of his efficiency 361 00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:47,000 numbers will just come up. And by the way, he 362 00:16:47,039 --> 00:16:49,799 still has the highest net rating swing on Dallas. I 363 00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:52,799 also threw Anthony Edwards in there. Kyrie Erving's been spectacular 364 00:16:52,799 --> 00:16:55,159 as a shot maker this year. Evan Mobley, I'm sure 365 00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:56,600 you'll talk more about him, so I don't need to 366 00:16:56,600 --> 00:17:00,320 get into his case. The controversial one here is we 367 00:17:00,320 --> 00:17:02,080 were supposed to let each other ask questions, so I 368 00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:05,400 apologize it's Kevin Durant has played under five hundred minutes. 369 00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:09,519 I don't care. He's arguably been Phoenix's best player at 370 00:17:09,519 --> 00:17:11,119 both ends of the floor. But when you factor in 371 00:17:11,160 --> 00:17:13,480 the numbers he's putting up offensively, just like twenty five 372 00:17:13,519 --> 00:17:17,160 points on sixty five true shooting, He's one of just 373 00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:20,640 the better still self created shot makers. And then it's 374 00:17:20,680 --> 00:17:24,400 the defense that he's shouldering. Opponents are shooting seventeen point 375 00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:26,960 three percentage points worse at the basket. When Kevin Durant's 376 00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:29,279 contesting a shot, He's not going to be eligible for 377 00:17:29,279 --> 00:17:30,839 this much longer. I want to make that clear. Next 378 00:17:30,839 --> 00:17:32,880 time we do this, he might have missed enough time 379 00:17:32,920 --> 00:17:35,920 to be bounced. I just think, like I said to me, 380 00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:38,599 it's going to be more about just outstanding at this point, 381 00:17:38,640 --> 00:17:40,799 and I think he's been easily to me, one of 382 00:17:40,839 --> 00:17:42,759 the fifteen best players in basketball. 383 00:17:43,119 --> 00:17:45,039 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's all fair. I think, why don't 384 00:17:45,039 --> 00:17:47,200 you put mine up and then that'll spur some of 385 00:17:47,240 --> 00:17:50,839 the differences that we can discuss. So my first team 386 00:17:51,079 --> 00:17:54,480 is not any different than my MVP ballot. If it 387 00:17:54,519 --> 00:17:57,200 were to be different, I would probably just swap Stephan 388 00:17:57,440 --> 00:17:59,759 for Franz. You've made a lot of good arguments about 389 00:17:59,759 --> 00:18:02,599 it in the MVP discussion about you know, the differences 390 00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:05,480 between what they're doing and just Steph being like, you know, 391 00:18:05,559 --> 00:18:07,519 he's still still pretty much Steph. I don't know what 392 00:18:07,559 --> 00:18:09,960 percentage of Stephie is, but it's it's in the nineties 393 00:18:09,960 --> 00:18:11,920 and that's good enough for an All NBA first I. 394 00:18:11,839 --> 00:18:13,759 Speaker 1: Will say he's still Steph. When it comes to flying 395 00:18:13,759 --> 00:18:15,759 around without the ball, like when you just watching with 396 00:18:15,799 --> 00:18:17,960 it like that is Steph is still Steph. 397 00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:20,880 Speaker 2: I think, I think if I don't know, I don't again, like, yeah, 398 00:18:20,880 --> 00:18:23,119 put him on my second team. That's that's the only 399 00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:24,960 real I think that's the only difference we have on 400 00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:26,799 second team. Actually, as you had Franz there and I 401 00:18:26,799 --> 00:18:27,599 have Steph there. 402 00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:29,200 Speaker 1: So we have the same two teams. 403 00:18:29,279 --> 00:18:31,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, same top ten essentially, Yeah, at first and second. 404 00:18:33,039 --> 00:18:35,200 I think I might be I might be getting a 405 00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:38,440 little bit affected by concern about the knees, the knees 406 00:18:38,440 --> 00:18:41,279 that he's been having, like he's I think we're probably 407 00:18:41,359 --> 00:18:43,319 now this is again I'm just kind of trying to 408 00:18:43,359 --> 00:18:47,000 explain myself here, but like I think there's a good 409 00:18:47,039 --> 00:18:48,640 chance he's not going to play both ends of back 410 00:18:48,680 --> 00:18:51,759 to backs going forward. He does, I think you're dead 411 00:18:51,799 --> 00:18:54,279 on it. Like he's still the load he carries as 412 00:18:54,359 --> 00:18:56,759 just you know, from a mileage perspective, like how much 413 00:18:56,799 --> 00:19:00,480 he has to move around is incredibly tough. And I 414 00:19:00,519 --> 00:19:03,559 think the Warriors lack of a you know, credible second 415 00:19:03,599 --> 00:19:06,880 creator means that Steph's like the level of defensive attention 416 00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:09,400 he's facing and physicality this year is like as higher, 417 00:19:09,480 --> 00:19:12,400 higher than ever, Like just the book really is just 418 00:19:12,440 --> 00:19:15,240 don't let him get you know, run loose, and the 419 00:19:15,279 --> 00:19:17,359 Warriors can't score. And that's I mean, you look at 420 00:19:17,359 --> 00:19:19,599 the on off stuff for real validation of that. But 421 00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:21,680 even on the floor, if you can deny him the 422 00:19:21,680 --> 00:19:23,759 ball for long enough in a possession, the Warriors really 423 00:19:23,799 --> 00:19:25,839 just like turn it over or cough up a tough 424 00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:28,480 shot or you know, take the ball to trouble, So 425 00:19:29,079 --> 00:19:31,200 that that's part of it. I mean, I think he's 426 00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:33,000 one of the fifth five best players in the league. 427 00:19:33,039 --> 00:19:36,599 Still blah blah blah. Our difference on the third team 428 00:19:36,680 --> 00:19:40,319 because I also have Luca and Kyrie and you had 429 00:19:40,599 --> 00:19:43,440 we both have Mobilely, I have Jaron Jackson Junior over Durant, 430 00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:46,160 and that's really just a volume thing. And now Jackson 431 00:19:46,160 --> 00:19:48,400 takes himself off the floor plenty with fouls and all 432 00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:50,799 that stuff, And on a permanent basis, I don't think 433 00:19:50,839 --> 00:19:53,440 there's a case to say that Jackson's been better than Durant. 434 00:19:53,799 --> 00:19:56,559 But I need to give the Grizzlies somebody here, I think, 435 00:19:56,599 --> 00:19:59,119 and that's not always a great argument, but I think 436 00:19:59,119 --> 00:20:02,279 he's been there best player overall, like Morant, certainly on 437 00:20:02,319 --> 00:20:04,240 a permanent basis, has a case for that, but he's 438 00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:07,519 missed enough time to kind of remove himself from consideration here. 439 00:20:07,960 --> 00:20:10,640 And like you, I think Luca's Luca is not going 440 00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:12,440 to be a third teamer and it's a what a 441 00:20:12,599 --> 00:20:13,200 credit to him? 442 00:20:13,279 --> 00:20:13,599 Speaker 1: Wild? 443 00:20:15,759 --> 00:20:18,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like and like I did, I don't know, 444 00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:21,160 did you give a second of consideration to not having 445 00:20:21,240 --> 00:20:22,920 Luca on an All NBA team? 446 00:20:23,440 --> 00:20:25,240 Speaker 1: No? When I was the thing that tripped me up 447 00:20:25,599 --> 00:20:28,279 was when I was not that I was trying to 448 00:20:28,319 --> 00:20:32,480 include Durant, but I believe just so with such conviction 449 00:20:32,720 --> 00:20:35,319 that he has been like he belongs here. It was 450 00:20:35,440 --> 00:20:37,279 who am I going to bounce? And it ended up 451 00:20:37,319 --> 00:20:41,200 being Jared Jackson Junior, which I don't love, but his shoulders, 452 00:20:41,599 --> 00:20:43,880 I think in net may I think it would have 453 00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:45,720 to be him or Mobile. You. I'm gotta hoping you 454 00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:47,160 get into too, because I don't think a lot of 455 00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:49,279 people are gonna have Mobile on one of their three 456 00:20:49,279 --> 00:20:50,160 All NBA teams. 457 00:20:50,519 --> 00:20:53,880 Speaker 2: Yeah. So, and we talked about this a fair amount 458 00:20:54,119 --> 00:20:58,279 uh on the last pod discussing most improved. So the numbers, 459 00:20:58,319 --> 00:21:00,359 if you're just looking at the counting stats, I'll pull 460 00:21:00,440 --> 00:21:02,759 him up here as I'm as I'm vamping, like they 461 00:21:02,759 --> 00:21:06,279 don't they don't look like all NBA numbers, and they 462 00:21:06,319 --> 00:21:09,880 also don't look really meaningfully different from last year. And 463 00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:12,960 so I think the narrative of like, oh my god, 464 00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:15,960 look at the growth he's made year over year that 465 00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:19,079 started the season, I feel like slipped a little bit, 466 00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:22,160 and like that's just kind of missing the point right, 467 00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:25,279 Like he's shooting, you know, his three point volume is 468 00:21:25,319 --> 00:21:28,079 two point one per game, Like that's you know, more 469 00:21:28,119 --> 00:21:29,960 than last year, but it's not. I mean, it's still 470 00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:32,000 so low. So oh, that's where the growth was going 471 00:21:32,039 --> 00:21:34,000 to be and it's not there. So therefore, Mobily is 472 00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:36,519 the same guy. Defensively, we're both going to have him 473 00:21:36,559 --> 00:21:40,359 really high on DPOY and offensively, the way that he's 474 00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:43,559 playing is so fundamentally different and so much more valuable 475 00:21:43,559 --> 00:21:46,440 to this Cavs offense. And that's specifically with respect to 476 00:21:47,119 --> 00:21:51,480 the volume of and nature of his drives, the physicality 477 00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:53,519 that he plays with. You clipped out a chunk from 478 00:21:53,519 --> 00:21:56,440 the last pod that I think really kind of encapsulates 479 00:21:56,480 --> 00:21:59,759 my thoughts on how he's so drastically different as an 480 00:21:59,799 --> 00:22:03,200 offensive player for the better because he's just attacking the basket, 481 00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:05,680 he's dunking on guys, He's using his strength. He looks 482 00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:09,079 physically much stronger and is playing that way. So, yeah, 483 00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:12,200 seventeen point nine points a game. I don't know is 484 00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:14,200 that an all? Is that all NBA worthy if you're 485 00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:16,759 not one of the five? Maybe lower than that best 486 00:22:16,799 --> 00:22:20,119 defenders in the league, maybe not. But the combination of 487 00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:25,599 how he's attacking offensively and the way he's like juicing 488 00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:28,599 that Cavs offense by being the guy that is helping 489 00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:31,160 set up a lot of threes and you know, forcing 490 00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:34,359 defensive collapses into the lane on top of the defense. 491 00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:36,200 Like I just I think if I were going to 492 00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:39,160 cut somebody for Durant, it probably would have been Jaron Jackson. 493 00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:42,079 It would not have been Mobiley. I think Mobley's been 494 00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:43,039 that good. 495 00:22:43,519 --> 00:22:46,359 Speaker 1: Any honorable mentions? Want to go back and forth on 496 00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:48,119 who were some of our toughest cuts? 497 00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:51,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, tough cuts for me. I mean Durant was obviously 498 00:22:51,519 --> 00:22:54,079 number one because just the volume, the fact that he's 499 00:22:54,079 --> 00:22:56,799 missed time is really the only the only case you 500 00:22:56,839 --> 00:22:57,200 can make. 501 00:22:57,680 --> 00:23:00,240 Speaker 1: And in fact, the same time as we record this, I'm. 502 00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:03,759 Speaker 2: Currently missing I'm missing more time that that doesn't help him. 503 00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:05,519 I'm trying to look for guys that I have that 504 00:23:05,599 --> 00:23:06,960 you don't. 505 00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:07,400 Speaker 1: I have. 506 00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:09,559 Speaker 2: Go ahead, I just mentioned mine. Give me one. 507 00:23:09,599 --> 00:23:13,079 Speaker 1: We both have dearon Fox, and I think you can 508 00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:14,960 probably make the case like it's a bonus their best player. 509 00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:16,440 I think it's still him. I know some of the 510 00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:18,319 three point shootings fallen off and the Kings have been 511 00:23:18,799 --> 00:23:21,440 As an impartial observer, I find the King's very stressful 512 00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:25,279 this season. So but he's he's still like ninety percent 513 00:23:25,279 --> 00:23:27,200 of his shots at the rimmer going unassisted. Like he's 514 00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:29,400 still scoring. I think he's like fifty five plus percent 515 00:23:29,759 --> 00:23:32,920 on twoes. He's he's been like one of their heaviest 516 00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:37,039 workload defenders this year as well. He was tough. Anyone 517 00:23:37,039 --> 00:23:38,400 else for you? I have one that I know you 518 00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:41,319 didn't mention. I think that might surprise some people, But yeah, 519 00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:42,160 I mean, so. 520 00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:46,680 Speaker 2: You'll notice that we have only one Cavalier in our 521 00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:49,920 top three all NBA teams. I have both Garland and Mitchell. 522 00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:52,559 We both have Garland Mitchell on our honorable mentions. And 523 00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:55,960 like I really did for a minute there, it was 524 00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:59,319 a real discussion between Kyrie and one of those two guys, 525 00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:03,359 I just think Gyrie's shooting like forty five forty six 526 00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:05,440 percent from three to fifty percent from the field. 527 00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:10,400 Speaker 1: He's been year too, sorry activity this year too has 528 00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:11,279 been through the roof. 529 00:24:11,279 --> 00:24:13,720 Speaker 2: And he's they're positive in the non Luca minutes, which 530 00:24:13,759 --> 00:24:15,640 is like and it's really because of him, because he's 531 00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:20,480 just been an elite driver. Note sir, uh, so who 532 00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:22,519 else you got? That was Garland and Mitchell? 533 00:24:22,559 --> 00:24:25,880 Speaker 1: Who would you have picked between them? 534 00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:29,519 Speaker 2: I think this is so. I think, in keeping consistent 535 00:24:29,599 --> 00:24:33,200 with with like contributions to this point, I probably would 536 00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:35,119 have had to pick Garland. I still think Donovan Mitchell 537 00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:37,599 is the better player, like he's the I think if 538 00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:41,519 you're hierarchy izing the Calves, I probably have him a 539 00:24:41,559 --> 00:24:44,000 good word, right, you can tell him my brain's firing. 540 00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:45,880 Speaker 1: Because I think that's an excellent word. 541 00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:50,920 Speaker 2: There's got to be an actual word organizing hierarchically the 542 00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:54,079 Calves pecking order. I would say Mitchell is higher on it, 543 00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:57,480 but I probably would have gone with Garland just because 544 00:24:57,480 --> 00:24:59,599 I think he's been marginally better to this point. I 545 00:24:59,599 --> 00:25:01,200 don't think he's the better player. 546 00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:05,279 Speaker 1: Though, so I probably wouldn't with Garland too. And I 547 00:25:05,279 --> 00:25:07,200 agree with everything you said there one of my I'm 548 00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:10,000 gonna reveal it this way. Here's all these This is 549 00:25:10,079 --> 00:25:12,920 per b Bellot index as well. Here's every player who's 550 00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:17,920 in the ninetieth percent tile of both defensive field goal 551 00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:20,640 percentage allowed at the rim, difference to what's expected and 552 00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:23,839 self created shot efficiency, like some of the most important 553 00:25:23,839 --> 00:25:25,599 things on either end of the floor. And I also 554 00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:28,839 filtered it out by you can't be a low activity defender. 555 00:25:29,319 --> 00:25:34,519 Kevin Durant, Victor webin Yama, Jaron Jackson Junior, Daniel Gafford, 556 00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:37,799 but that's a volume thing. And Keg Cunningham, who also 557 00:25:37,839 --> 00:25:40,319 think deserves some shine here. I think he's just improved 558 00:25:40,319 --> 00:25:42,240 a bunch defensively this year. That was meant to highlight 559 00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:44,480 it more, and he's responsible for driving so much of 560 00:25:44,519 --> 00:25:47,720 their offense. Unless there are there Chet Holmgreen would have 561 00:25:47,759 --> 00:25:50,880 been mentioned if he played anywhere near enough. I do 562 00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:53,200 have Devin Bookers like sort of a distant honorable mention. 563 00:25:53,279 --> 00:25:55,039 Is there any other names you wanted to throw out 564 00:25:55,079 --> 00:25:55,680 that I had. 565 00:25:55,599 --> 00:25:58,880 Speaker 2: Alpern Shangouna someone I thought about. The scoring efficiency has 566 00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:01,599 been really disappointing so far this season. He's at a 567 00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:04,359 career low overall from the field, the three point stuff 568 00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:08,960 hasn't happened, and you know, and yet nineteen ten and 569 00:26:09,039 --> 00:26:11,279 five and his defense, we've talked about this a little bit, 570 00:26:11,319 --> 00:26:13,960 has been like not passable, but actually a part of 571 00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:17,000 the reason that the Rockets have a great defense this year. 572 00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:20,559 I think like if he'd had last year's efficiency numbers, 573 00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:23,000 forget the counting stats on offense, I think I probably 574 00:26:23,039 --> 00:26:24,960 would have thought really really hard about putting him on 575 00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:25,519 a third team. 576 00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:29,319 Speaker 1: I did give LaMelo consideration because then the thirty plus 577 00:26:29,319 --> 00:26:32,640 points and still passing really well and shooting a crazy 578 00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:35,680 number of threes and hitting them drop below thirty six percent. 579 00:26:35,799 --> 00:26:38,680 He's hurt. The defense is bad. The turnovers are all 580 00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:41,920 over the place too. I couldn't get there for him either. 581 00:26:42,079 --> 00:26:44,119 Did you feel before we unless you have anyone else 582 00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:45,799 to mention, we should probably get the defensive player of 583 00:26:45,839 --> 00:26:49,160 the year. Did you feel like as of right now 584 00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:53,160 that the top crop of the league is sort of lacking? 585 00:26:55,039 --> 00:27:00,240 Speaker 2: Well? I think, like viewed through the just to sort 586 00:27:00,279 --> 00:27:03,000 of backtrack a little bit through the MVP prism, I 587 00:27:03,039 --> 00:27:07,960 thought it was like Jokic, Giant Gap, Sga, Tatum, Jannis 588 00:27:08,039 --> 00:27:10,279 maybe for me, but really just SGA Tatum, and then 589 00:27:10,279 --> 00:27:12,960 after that it's like, man, I don't know, because we'll 590 00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:15,599 think of who's not involved, right, like Curry not an 591 00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:19,599 MVP consideration, Durant, Lebron. It's really kind of that story 592 00:27:19,599 --> 00:27:21,359 that's being told more and more this year about how 593 00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:23,319 like the old guard is kind of fading out and 594 00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:27,119 the young crop of the like Edwards's and whoever else 595 00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:29,119 you want to throw in there, haven't fully ascended to 596 00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:31,599 that high level. So it feels like we're in kind 597 00:27:31,599 --> 00:27:34,400 of a transition phase where maybe a year from now, 598 00:27:34,559 --> 00:27:38,240 like Mobile Whimby, Edwards, Jaw, like some of these other 599 00:27:38,279 --> 00:27:42,240 guys climb up to where they're closer to SGA, Tatum, Jokic, 600 00:27:42,279 --> 00:27:44,839 but there seems like a pretty big gap there on. 601 00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:46,880 I don't know, would you call them like you're there's 602 00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:49,240 only a couple a pluses this year, and I feel 603 00:27:49,279 --> 00:27:51,480 like there's a lot of b's and b pluses that'll climb, 604 00:27:51,519 --> 00:27:52,680 but that aren't there yet. 605 00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:55,640 Speaker 1: Because it does it feels like a lot of the 606 00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:58,480 time there's at least sort of a consensus top five 607 00:27:58,599 --> 00:28:02,240 or six players, and we just don't have that yeah 608 00:28:02,279 --> 00:28:04,079 this year, and it's not look I think the games 609 00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:06,880 have been I've had a lot of fun like watching games. Well, 610 00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:09,400 I don't watch games. I forgot about that, But when 611 00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:11,079 you look at the box scores, Grant, it seems like 612 00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:13,240 there's been a lot of fun game this year. 613 00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:16,039 Speaker 2: When you put a clip pro and you're just watching 614 00:28:16,079 --> 00:28:18,680 somebody's pick and roll possessions over and over with no context, 615 00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:19,799 it's really hard to find. 616 00:28:19,599 --> 00:28:22,400 Speaker 1: The and she on Roe, I apologize if I butchered 617 00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:24,720 the pronunciation of that. No, Cat, I did think about him, 618 00:28:24,759 --> 00:28:27,440 even if you don't believe me the I think his 619 00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:30,359 biggest case would be he's averaging over twenty five points. 620 00:28:30,839 --> 00:28:32,799 You think he's had three assists, and he's always been 621 00:28:32,799 --> 00:28:35,160 a good passer, but he's just throwing like some He's 622 00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:37,119 had some monster passing games in New York, and I 623 00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:38,559 think the light might be a little bit brighter, but 624 00:28:38,599 --> 00:28:40,720 he's always been had the potential to be a good passer. 625 00:28:41,039 --> 00:28:43,519 They're winning. So when he's on the court without Jayalen 626 00:28:43,519 --> 00:28:45,240 Brun saying this will show you I considered him. I 627 00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:47,119 think I think the nixt are like a plus seven 628 00:28:47,279 --> 00:28:50,000 when he plays without JB. I can't get there with 629 00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:54,119 the defense. I think when you look at this list 630 00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:58,160 as of right now, the most damaging defensive player on 631 00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:01,440 it is Luca, and it's like it's Luca. There's just 632 00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:03,680 like a like, and then Steph is followed up there. 633 00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:06,319 I think you could eat like you know, of the 634 00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:09,319 names we mentioned, like Kat is certainly in the okay 635 00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:11,839 Fox tire, He's certainly in the Cake Cunningham tier, He's 636 00:29:11,839 --> 00:29:13,880 certainly in the Is he on the level of Garland 637 00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:16,400 and Mitchell? That might be. I just think the rim 638 00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:18,960 protection numbers are bad U and I don't know if 639 00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:21,119 the Nicks have put him in the best spot to succeed, 640 00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:24,039 Like I don't know that Tibbs is. I also don't 641 00:29:24,039 --> 00:29:26,440 know what else TIB's is supposed to do defensively with him. Yeah, 642 00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:30,000 and you acquired him knowing this. But I just when 643 00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:32,680 you've hurt your defense as much as I think he has, 644 00:29:32,799 --> 00:29:34,400 even if you think he's played better over the last 645 00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:36,920 five or seven games or whatever. I can't get there 646 00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:38,759 right now. But when you look at this, I will 647 00:29:38,759 --> 00:29:41,519 say this field of candidates, Kat would be another name 648 00:29:41,599 --> 00:29:43,200 to kind of just monitor as like, Okay, well, this 649 00:29:43,279 --> 00:29:45,039 order is clearly going to change when you look at 650 00:29:45,559 --> 00:29:48,480 and look if you wanted to say for mine specifically, 651 00:29:48,519 --> 00:29:50,039 like Cat should be in there over Kevin Durant. You 652 00:29:50,119 --> 00:29:52,039 look at the difference in minutes, I think I honestly 653 00:29:52,079 --> 00:29:52,680 think that's fair. 654 00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:55,359 Speaker 2: Yeah, No, I think I think Kat is sort of 655 00:29:55,359 --> 00:29:59,480 a victim of like there just are different positional demands. 656 00:29:59,519 --> 00:30:02,079 And if you are as bad as he's been defensively 657 00:30:02,119 --> 00:30:04,200 and as bad specifically as a rim protector as the 658 00:30:04,279 --> 00:30:07,119 numbers have shown him to be, like at the center spot, 659 00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:10,400 that's just like that's that's a huge part of what 660 00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:12,559 you're supposed to do in that role, and he's just 661 00:30:12,599 --> 00:30:15,720 not been good at it. And then you'd say, well, like, okay, 662 00:30:15,839 --> 00:30:18,640 so how good is Darius Garland defensively? For example, if 663 00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:20,680 we're just gonna pick somebody out, He's like, well, you 664 00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:22,960 can make the case that Garland's defensive impact is and 665 00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:27,240 is still somehow like not as good as Towns, but 666 00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:31,079 like Garland is a singular driver of offense, and that's not 667 00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:33,680 what Kat does either, like Jalen Brunson does that for 668 00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:36,240 the nixt. So like a big guy that has awesome 669 00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:39,559 offensive numbers but poor defense, it's just like you're not 670 00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:44,119 fulfilling like a significant chunk of your like job requirements. 671 00:30:44,519 --> 00:30:46,359 So I hold that against him a little bit. 672 00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:48,400 Speaker 1: I also hold it against him because he made me 673 00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:50,160 look like a fool by saying he was gonna attempt 674 00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:51,680 at least a three as a game this year and 675 00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:55,799 he's under this is also I've thought about this so much, 676 00:30:56,839 --> 00:30:59,000 and Gianro says he moves, he'll move to the four 677 00:30:59,039 --> 00:31:02,640 after Robinson comes back. I want to see what it 678 00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:05,640 looks like. I'm just curious. I think Karl Anthony Towns 679 00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:08,359 is a skeleton key in that setup. But it's all right, well, 680 00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:10,880 I guess you're taking out Heart in that scenario, which 681 00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:13,000 is I mean, Heart's a better four space than the 682 00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:14,640 Mitchell Robinson. That's not what I was getting at. I'm 683 00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:16,680 just so curious what that looks like offensively. But I 684 00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:18,880 think you could make the case. Look at how much 685 00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:22,119 the Timberwolves miss Karl Anthy Towns defensively compared to Julius Randall. 686 00:31:22,319 --> 00:31:24,680 Speaker 2: Yeah. No, I think the whole dynamic changes if he's 687 00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:27,759 not asked to be your improtector right like, that's it's 688 00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:30,880 just completely he's got Now he's basically a wing, you know, 689 00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:34,000 like and he's not a good defensive wing by any stretch, 690 00:31:34,079 --> 00:31:38,400 but his length matters more if he's in that. Yeah, yeah, 691 00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:40,920 you're you're not asking him to be the back line guy, 692 00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:45,519 which he just has never consistently been like average at Really. 693 00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:49,279 Speaker 1: We're on the defensive player of the Year. You want 694 00:31:49,279 --> 00:31:50,960 to take that, well, yeah I took it. You want 695 00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:51,319 to take this? 696 00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:53,960 Speaker 2: Sure? Yeah, So uh we're just gonna go top three 697 00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:57,440 here and then we'll kind of dovetail into all defense. 698 00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:01,599 So Wemby first, it's just like, what do you I 699 00:32:01,599 --> 00:32:05,920 don't know which ridiculous stat to go with, just like, actually, 700 00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:08,599 you know, I'm sure you have stats. I will make 701 00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:13,480 the case that I have never seen someone just prevent 702 00:32:13,599 --> 00:32:16,960 players from attempting to score the way that he does 703 00:32:17,119 --> 00:32:20,319 all over the court, like just his suppression of Now 704 00:32:20,359 --> 00:32:22,200 there is data, they're like, oh, what does what does 705 00:32:22,279 --> 00:32:24,680 rimtep frequency look like with him on or off? It's 706 00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:28,319 and you know all that stuff rim accuracy, mid range accuracy, 707 00:32:28,359 --> 00:32:31,640 all that stuff he impacts. But just if you watch 708 00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:36,039 the games, his presence is just like a unique thing 709 00:32:36,319 --> 00:32:38,839 in in the NBA right now, Like and there we're 710 00:32:38,839 --> 00:32:40,920 going to talk about other good rim protectors, great rim 711 00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:43,279 protectors like Rudy Gobert is on my ballot. He's an 712 00:32:43,319 --> 00:32:47,279 all time RIM protector. Gobert does not change the way 713 00:32:47,319 --> 00:32:50,839 offenses operate to the same extent that Wemby does, and 714 00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:54,519 that's because Wemby is the best combination of like length 715 00:32:54,559 --> 00:32:58,440 and mobility we've ever seen. So I just think, like 716 00:32:59,359 --> 00:33:03,240 the way that that he changes how entire teams approach 717 00:33:03,359 --> 00:33:08,240 trying to score is fundamentally unique. And I think I 718 00:33:08,359 --> 00:33:11,000 just wouldn't even really entertain an argument like for a 719 00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:14,240 better for somebody else ahead of him, for first like that, 720 00:33:14,559 --> 00:33:17,359 like is that do you feel that strongly? Or was there? 721 00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:19,799 You know, I don't want to diminish the accomplishments of 722 00:33:19,839 --> 00:33:21,319 the other guys we're going to talk about, But like, 723 00:33:21,799 --> 00:33:25,240 this was maybe the easiest of a decision I made 724 00:33:25,279 --> 00:33:26,799 in any of these ballots. 725 00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:30,759 Speaker 1: I don't, Yeah, I think it was easy. What do 726 00:33:30,799 --> 00:33:33,240 you make of the What do you make of the argument? 727 00:33:33,319 --> 00:33:37,079 I guess that Wemby isn't the highest IQ defender and 728 00:33:37,119 --> 00:33:38,720 he could also be doing more because I think when 729 00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:41,039 you watch him and I might agree with this where 730 00:33:41,039 --> 00:33:45,079 it's kind of oh, he could definitely contest. He's contesting 731 00:33:45,119 --> 00:33:47,599 by the way, forty five plus percent of all shots 732 00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:50,400 when he's on the court near the rim, that's a lot, 733 00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:52,680 so like I'm not trying to put there. I think 734 00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:54,519 when you look at him, you could see the potential 735 00:33:54,519 --> 00:33:56,799 for him to do more or that he's not. You know, 736 00:33:56,839 --> 00:33:59,480 sometimes he's going to fall behind plays, but he has 737 00:33:59,519 --> 00:34:02,359 the physical tools to where it doesn't matter. I can't 738 00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:05,200 ding him for that. Like a hashtag born this way 739 00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:08,880 and he's just using it. I don't. He's upon the 740 00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:12,159 statu you want like forty five percent a could test 741 00:34:12,159 --> 00:34:13,679 of opponents when he's on the court and as a 742 00:34:13,679 --> 00:34:15,679 mobile big I think that's a pretty good number. Is 743 00:34:15,679 --> 00:34:16,960 the center, you might want it to be a little 744 00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:20,960 bit higher, especially him, Opponents are shooting sixteen percentage points 745 00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:24,360 worse at the basket when he's on at the basket 746 00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:27,199 when he's challenging them. That's just a monster drop off. 747 00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:31,079 And then he's saving about two point seven points at 748 00:34:31,119 --> 00:34:34,559 the rim per seventy five possessions, which you know, that's 749 00:34:34,599 --> 00:34:36,960 a pretty that you might expect that number to be higher. 750 00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:39,119 But I think a lot of his value lies even 751 00:34:39,159 --> 00:34:41,880 though when you see it, I think statistically the Spurs 752 00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:45,920 might be allowing more points or excuse me, a larger 753 00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:48,440 share of opponent shots at the basket when he's on 754 00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:50,800 the court. But a lot of Wemby's value kind of 755 00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:53,840 lies in don't try that, right, And. 756 00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:55,559 Speaker 2: That's case I'm making essentially. 757 00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:57,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, and look, I think that's fine. And by the way, 758 00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:01,400 so all those numbers I mentioned when you're looking at, okay, 759 00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:03,559 the percentage of shots contested at the rim coupled with 760 00:35:03,639 --> 00:35:05,840 how poorly opponents shoot. They are then coupled with how 761 00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:09,519 many points per seventy five possessions he saved. I'm filtering 762 00:35:09,679 --> 00:35:12,199 just through players that have played at least two hundred 763 00:35:12,199 --> 00:35:15,079 and fifty minutes, so the sample size is huge here. 764 00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:18,280 There's only one other player who matches all those benchmarks 765 00:35:18,599 --> 00:35:19,559 and his chet Holm Grin. 766 00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:22,880 Speaker 2: So I even have the games essentially. 767 00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:25,360 Speaker 1: Right, Oh, we got spam in the chat. Look at 768 00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:30,119 this Knicks Film School MVP Karl Anthony Towns DPOI oganna noobi. 769 00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:34,079 Do you have any other notes? Well, I'll throw all 770 00:35:34,119 --> 00:35:35,920 their picks up there. We'll see if they have any. Oh, 771 00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:38,320 Rookie of the Year Ariel huck Porty, that's a good one. 772 00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:42,679 Anything else, I just and the Spurs are elite defensively 773 00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:44,320 with him on the court, although it has slipped. I 774 00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:46,039 don't know if you've noticed, like the offense is kind 775 00:35:46,079 --> 00:35:47,920 of headed in the right directions, the defense is not. 776 00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:53,280 I still think if this award is actually here's my question, 777 00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:57,920 on an annual basis moving forward, how many other players 778 00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:01,159 do you think realistically could be a better than Victor 779 00:36:01,159 --> 00:36:03,920 Webbery more valuable defender in any given season right now? 780 00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:08,599 Speaker 2: Uh? None? I just like what maybe Chet? Maybe Chet? 781 00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:09,480 Maybe Chet? 782 00:36:09,679 --> 00:36:11,280 Speaker 1: I will give a shout out because I do think 783 00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:14,280 he's kind of like a hybrid big and normally I do. Look, 784 00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:16,840 I think big men are the most important defenders in basketball. 785 00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:19,320 I just think that's without a doubt. You kind of 786 00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:22,840 have to think about Ama Thompson there a little bit. 787 00:36:23,119 --> 00:36:26,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, the versatility is insane. I guess if you're to 788 00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:29,960 your question, do I do I think that Wemben Yama 789 00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:33,039 is gonna get like anything but better at you know, 790 00:36:33,119 --> 00:36:35,639 defending in space or you know, the some of the 791 00:36:35,679 --> 00:36:40,519 decision making stuff like She's like, again, that's a separate 792 00:36:40,559 --> 00:36:42,519 issue from what we're talking about here. I just like, 793 00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:45,079 I do you mentioned Chet and he's not on either 794 00:36:45,119 --> 00:36:47,519 of our our top three here and that is. 795 00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:49,079 Speaker 1: Strictly in sixty five minutes. 796 00:36:49,119 --> 00:36:53,039 Speaker 2: That's truly because he's played ten games. Uh and but 797 00:36:53,599 --> 00:36:56,360 to your point, just you know, the inside six feet 798 00:36:56,440 --> 00:36:59,559 defensive fieldbell percent of stuff. Wemby's number one among anybody 799 00:36:59,559 --> 00:37:02,199 that's defend and did more than seven attempts per game, 800 00:37:02,639 --> 00:37:06,119 allowing forty seven percent shooting inside six feet. That's sixteen 801 00:37:06,199 --> 00:37:08,719 percent below what you would expect to be allowed. That's 802 00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:12,679 like Mobile's at twelve percent. We have him second, Like okay, 803 00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:16,519 so one and two, great Chet is eighteen percent below 804 00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:19,320 what you would expect guys to shoot inside when he's 805 00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:23,519 designated the primary defender inside six feet. I wonder, like, 806 00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:26,719 one how sustainable that is? And two that that's to 807 00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:29,480 answer your question earlier, like Chet sort of has to 808 00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:32,880 be the guy that you would consider as like, is 809 00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:35,239 anybody in a challenge when Bin Yama for the next 810 00:37:35,559 --> 00:37:37,920 however many defensive Player of the Year awards, because like 811 00:37:39,639 --> 00:37:42,400 Chet might, Chet probably is like a little bit sharper 812 00:37:42,599 --> 00:37:45,719 off the ball, a little bit more versatile in space, 813 00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:48,119 like all that stuff, not as long because nobody is 814 00:37:48,119 --> 00:37:51,159 but close enough, and his his interior, like his rim 815 00:37:51,199 --> 00:37:54,960 protection numbers are bonkers. So I think chet is clearly 816 00:37:55,039 --> 00:37:58,559 the answer. But ten, you just can't. His impact hasn't 817 00:37:58,559 --> 00:38:01,360 been great enough to be you know, top three here 818 00:38:01,519 --> 00:38:04,800 or you know, in consideration for all first team. 819 00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:08,280 Speaker 1: For example, I will say I said this erroneously, that 820 00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:10,599 the Spurs were allowing more attempts at the room with 821 00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:12,960 him on the court. That is just factually not true. 822 00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:14,639 I don't know why I thought that was a thing. 823 00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:20,000 They're allowing three point nine opponents shares. Excuse me, the 824 00:38:20,559 --> 00:38:22,599 frequency with which opponents reached the rim with one me 825 00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:25,480 on the court drops by three point nine percent. That's 826 00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:29,159 in the seventy eighth or it's eighty ninth percentile. Excuse me. 827 00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:32,320 That's a huge number. It's second in the league among 828 00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:34,360 anyone who's play at least two hundred fifty minutes. And 829 00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:37,159 by the way, he combines that with well, he's in 830 00:38:37,159 --> 00:38:39,679 the ninety four percent tile of the share of shots 831 00:38:39,679 --> 00:38:42,000 that aren't taken in float range when he's on the court. 832 00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:44,119 So just like players that don't want to be in 833 00:38:44,119 --> 00:38:44,480 the paint. 834 00:38:44,559 --> 00:38:47,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, I love your did you come up with the 835 00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:48,880 the like the don't try it factor? 836 00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:51,400 Speaker 1: I feel like that was that was off rip. That 837 00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:53,840 was just he's the he's the consummate. Don't try it. 838 00:38:54,199 --> 00:38:56,440 We probably should so we both have Mobi number two. 839 00:38:57,119 --> 00:38:59,480 He's apparently Mobili's five or six from three in the 840 00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:02,880 first half. By the way, Buttresses is all NBA case. 841 00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:07,000 I just he's the best defender on a team that's 842 00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:09,360 still a pretty good defensive team. And when you talk 843 00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:13,079 about hybrid bigs, he's the hybrid big. He's the center, 844 00:39:13,199 --> 00:39:15,039 but he can also be the wing defender. He's playing 845 00:39:15,079 --> 00:39:18,760 next to Jared Allen. I think, look, if we're talking 846 00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:21,800 about the most versatile defenders in basketball, is it probably 847 00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:26,039 between him, Adenobi and Bam. Who am I leaving off? 848 00:39:26,239 --> 00:39:29,159 Speaker 2: I think that you might you might have said Draymond 849 00:39:29,199 --> 00:39:32,679 By that well let's we'll we'll save the Draymond for 850 00:39:32,679 --> 00:39:35,519 for a moment here. But yeah, like Mobile is someone that, 851 00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:39,400 like you're as comfortable with him on Jason Tatum as 852 00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:41,199 you are with him on Anthony Edwards as you are 853 00:39:41,199 --> 00:39:43,960 with him on name the big right like and and 854 00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:46,599 then as a as an off ball guy that flies around. 855 00:39:46,639 --> 00:39:49,079 I mean, you're you'd be hard pressed to find anybody 856 00:39:49,119 --> 00:39:51,440 you'd want more in that role, like other than Wemby. 857 00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:53,719 I guess who's kind of disqualified from any of those 858 00:39:54,079 --> 00:39:55,639 comparative conversations. 859 00:39:56,480 --> 00:39:59,360 Speaker 1: I have Draymond three. I actually think you snubbed him here. 860 00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:01,519 But Rudy, go bear, and we'll get into this a 861 00:40:01,559 --> 00:40:03,440 little bit with all defense. I'll throw your all defense 862 00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:07,079 teams up here in one second. Draymond just he remains 863 00:40:07,119 --> 00:40:10,159 the quarterback of the Warriors defense, and the Warriors defense 864 00:40:10,159 --> 00:40:12,559 has been elite, it's actually been worse when he's on 865 00:40:12,599 --> 00:40:15,159 the court. That just says more anything about what their 866 00:40:15,199 --> 00:40:18,320 bench personnel has been able to do against other bench personnel. 867 00:40:18,440 --> 00:40:21,639 I still view him as the lifeblood of what is 868 00:40:22,119 --> 00:40:25,039 you know, one of the most disruptive or terrifying defenses 869 00:40:25,079 --> 00:40:27,480 in the league to date. And yes, the Warriors are 870 00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:29,599 going through what are they on a six game losing 871 00:40:29,639 --> 00:40:32,400 streak or whatever it is, there's still fourth in defensive 872 00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:37,360 efficiency overall. That doesn't happen without Draymond Green. Like I 873 00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:39,679 know again, I know this is where the on off 874 00:40:39,719 --> 00:40:42,599 stuff is weird this season. If you look at Anthony 875 00:40:42,679 --> 00:40:44,320 Davis's and you told me the Lakers are better off 876 00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:46,960 defensively with him off the court, I'd probably believe you. 877 00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:48,639 But like last year when it said that the Lakers 878 00:40:48,639 --> 00:40:50,920 were better defensively without him. I don't buy it, and 879 00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:53,960 I wouldn't buy this with you pull Draymond Green off 880 00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:56,679 the Warriors. I think they're probably a bottom ten defense. 881 00:40:57,719 --> 00:41:00,119 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think, well we may we may get some 882 00:41:00,280 --> 00:41:01,880 version of a test of that, because he's going to 883 00:41:01,920 --> 00:41:04,039 the bench now for at least a little while. As 884 00:41:04,119 --> 00:41:05,599 Jonathan Kaminga get Finally. 885 00:41:05,599 --> 00:41:08,039 Speaker 1: You know why they're doing that right to buttresses on 886 00:41:08,199 --> 00:41:10,679 off splits for this exact argument that we're having. 887 00:41:11,239 --> 00:41:14,519 Speaker 2: So I agree with you that Draymond is still is 888 00:41:14,559 --> 00:41:18,320 an alzheimer and is still very very very good. I've 889 00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:22,159 seen enough like oh that was a blowby like on 890 00:41:22,199 --> 00:41:26,519 switches this season. I'm an ageist. Yeah, to degrade him 891 00:41:26,639 --> 00:41:28,840 just just a touch, he's gonna make one of my teams. 892 00:41:29,599 --> 00:41:31,039 And I, in fact like had to move him up 893 00:41:31,039 --> 00:41:34,599 because I had him too low. So I have Gobert there. 894 00:41:35,159 --> 00:41:38,719 I think, like, well, people that have been paying attention 895 00:41:38,840 --> 00:41:40,199 day to day and that have been looking at the 896 00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:44,199 numbers all year are aware that the idea that Minnesota's 897 00:41:44,239 --> 00:41:46,880 early defensive struggles like did not have a lot to 898 00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:49,079 do with Gobert. Now you can criticize him for like 899 00:41:49,159 --> 00:41:52,199 the stonehands and the pouting about not getting post touches 900 00:41:52,239 --> 00:41:54,880 and just wanting to be too much of an offensive 901 00:41:54,880 --> 00:41:57,079 player when he just has never been and can't really be. 902 00:41:57,199 --> 00:42:00,920 That that's all valid, But as a defensive like difference maker, 903 00:42:01,360 --> 00:42:04,519 he's still like, right there, Minnesota's defense is world class 904 00:42:04,519 --> 00:42:06,199 when he's on the floor. That's been true all year, 905 00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:08,320 continues to be true as they are on this run 906 00:42:08,360 --> 00:42:10,840 now of like, oh there they are. There's the defense 907 00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:12,480 over the last like week plus, it. 908 00:42:12,519 --> 00:42:16,639 Speaker 1: Was I I credit Anthony Edwards and I watched the videos. 909 00:42:16,639 --> 00:42:20,079 I'm gonna fret it this way the politest verbal disembowlment 910 00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:22,880 I've ever seen or heard in my entire life, and 911 00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:24,559 just the seas around. 912 00:42:24,360 --> 00:42:26,800 Speaker 2: Did it with a smile, like smiled and laughed as 913 00:42:26,840 --> 00:42:28,559 he was saying it, as he was talking about how 914 00:42:28,559 --> 00:42:30,519 soft they are and how their little kids just like 915 00:42:30,639 --> 00:42:34,199 come on, like make him elect him president. So, just 916 00:42:34,239 --> 00:42:36,119 a couple of stats for Gobert, like nothing that's going 917 00:42:36,199 --> 00:42:39,400 to surprise you. Opponent riemits him frequency is down by 918 00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:42,119 eight percent. That's a ninety eight percentile figure when he's 919 00:42:42,119 --> 00:42:45,000 on the floor of versus off. He's still a great 920 00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:48,559 shop locker, great defensive reboundary. He's still just it's kind 921 00:42:48,599 --> 00:42:50,079 of like the stepf thing, Like I don't know what 922 00:42:50,119 --> 00:42:54,199 percentage of you know, Pete Rudy Gobert he currently is, 923 00:42:54,239 --> 00:42:56,639 but it's in the nineties. It's good enough to be 924 00:42:56,760 --> 00:43:00,320 the to be my third guy here, and I guess, like, yeah, 925 00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:05,280 it's Draymond. Draymond still might be one of the guys 926 00:43:05,320 --> 00:43:07,960 you'd take. Like we're starting a playoff series today, Like 927 00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:11,960 who do you want to anchor a defense? What this is? 928 00:43:11,960 --> 00:43:14,440 Speaker 1: Isn't that weird because like, wouldn't Bam be in that? 929 00:43:14,599 --> 00:43:17,159 Like if you're saying you're doing right now, we're saying 930 00:43:17,199 --> 00:43:18,960 you want to build the best playoff defense possible and 931 00:43:19,039 --> 00:43:20,719 we have to hold a draft and like you're just 932 00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:24,239 selecting players from scratch. Wenby goes one still and then 933 00:43:24,280 --> 00:43:26,760 it's like there's a case for Bam or Draymond or 934 00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:29,239 Mobli after that it feels more so than there would 935 00:43:29,239 --> 00:43:30,039 be for Gobert. 936 00:43:30,199 --> 00:43:31,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think that's got more to do with 937 00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:34,519 offense than anything else, you know what I mean, Like, 938 00:43:34,599 --> 00:43:37,880 I think I think you can the idea. There was 939 00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:41,840 a minute there where what was it, the Jazz Clippers series. However, 940 00:43:41,840 --> 00:43:44,400 many years ago when Terrence Man hits like six threes 941 00:43:44,440 --> 00:43:46,840 from the corners and we're like, well, see, Rudy Gobert, 942 00:43:46,920 --> 00:43:49,079 it can't be you know, he can't anchor it. That 943 00:43:49,199 --> 00:43:51,519 just was overblown. That really wasn't on him. But I 944 00:43:51,559 --> 00:43:54,039 do think to your point, when you're picking a guy 945 00:43:54,079 --> 00:43:56,920 to anchor a postseason defense, we're getting a little far 946 00:43:56,920 --> 00:43:59,559 afield now. But it's an interesting discussion. I do think 947 00:43:59,559 --> 00:44:02,880 you grab take away from your standard rim protectors, and 948 00:44:02,920 --> 00:44:06,039 you just want guys that are gonna be more versatile 949 00:44:06,079 --> 00:44:09,280 and capable of covering different types of offenses in different matchups. 950 00:44:09,280 --> 00:44:11,960 I think that's just the reality of what the playoffs 951 00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:14,440 demand versus eighty two games, where you need to set 952 00:44:14,440 --> 00:44:16,639 a base defense night to night and you're not like 953 00:44:16,679 --> 00:44:18,599 scouting the shit out of every team and you know, 954 00:44:18,639 --> 00:44:20,440 trying to exploit every weakness. It's just kind of a 955 00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:21,159 different task. 956 00:44:22,159 --> 00:44:24,199 Speaker 1: Let's move on to grants all defense teams can we 957 00:44:24,239 --> 00:44:25,920 try it? So I'd like to ask questions if I 958 00:44:25,920 --> 00:44:28,760 have any questions about, Yeah, why did you almost snub 959 00:44:28,840 --> 00:44:29,880 Draymond Green entirely? 960 00:44:32,039 --> 00:44:34,719 Speaker 2: I think it was just I was caught up in 961 00:44:34,760 --> 00:44:37,119 the some of the physical lack so I'll give you 962 00:44:37,119 --> 00:44:39,639 a couple more things besides the blowbys. I think he's 963 00:44:39,679 --> 00:44:43,159 really struggling more with like the quickness of his reactions. 964 00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:45,679 It's really is just all like this is what happens 965 00:44:45,760 --> 00:44:48,280 when you've been guarding up a position or two like 966 00:44:48,320 --> 00:44:52,119 your entire career and you're into your mid thirties. Not 967 00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:54,800 as like he's struggling to like get up for rebounds 968 00:44:54,880 --> 00:44:56,960 a little more than he used to. Like, so as 969 00:44:57,000 --> 00:44:59,199 a defensive re you lose quite a bit more than 970 00:44:59,239 --> 00:45:01,639 you used to when he he's your primary defensive rebounder. 971 00:45:01,719 --> 00:45:04,639 Like that, that's a factor. I think I have him 972 00:45:04,639 --> 00:45:06,920 on the second team, so like do you want to 973 00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:08,519 you should actually read through for the people that are 974 00:45:08,519 --> 00:45:10,880 actually listening. Yeah, okay, if you're just listening. My first 975 00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:16,159 team has no surprise Wemby, Mobiley and Gobert. Also, I 976 00:45:16,159 --> 00:45:19,280 have Jared Jackson Junior. My only non big is Dyson Daniels. 977 00:45:20,199 --> 00:45:24,639 I don't want to hear about steels aren't defense because 978 00:45:24,719 --> 00:45:25,480 in addition. 979 00:45:25,280 --> 00:45:27,639 Speaker 1: Alta's defense is above average this year. 980 00:45:28,079 --> 00:45:31,519 Speaker 2: Atlanta's defense is in fact above average, and Atlanta's defense 981 00:45:31,800 --> 00:45:34,000 does not have a lot of good defenders in it. 982 00:45:34,119 --> 00:45:37,239 So I mean they've been more. We wish have a 983 00:45:37,320 --> 00:45:39,760 longer discussion about how Atlanta has like a really nice 984 00:45:39,800 --> 00:45:43,239 top eight, by the way, but Daniels is just like 985 00:45:43,360 --> 00:45:47,400 unscreenable rearview can test master, Like the poke away from 986 00:45:47,400 --> 00:45:49,800 behind was a big story in the first few weeks 987 00:45:49,800 --> 00:45:51,480 of the season, Like I've never seen someone do it 988 00:45:51,480 --> 00:45:55,840 as effectively as he has. Just he is, he's I think, well, 989 00:45:55,880 --> 00:45:58,199 look at here. I think he's the best perimeter defender 990 00:45:58,199 --> 00:45:59,840 in the league. I think he's the best guy, the 991 00:46:00,039 --> 00:46:03,400 guy you would want on any ball dominant guard or 992 00:46:03,440 --> 00:46:06,199 anybody that's gonna run around screens that you need to 993 00:46:06,280 --> 00:46:08,679 chase and just not lose contact with. I think he's 994 00:46:08,719 --> 00:46:10,920 been unbelievable in that role. 995 00:46:11,480 --> 00:46:13,760 Speaker 1: He also has the highest two way usage in the 996 00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:16,639 NBA when you're factoring in usage on offense and defense. 997 00:46:16,639 --> 00:46:18,400 Not that that matters here, but for him to be 998 00:46:18,440 --> 00:46:20,199 as good asdeas on defense, if you have to shoulder 999 00:46:20,199 --> 00:46:22,679 a heavier workload on offense, I think he was I 1000 00:46:22,719 --> 00:46:25,320 think he's your most interesting first team inclusion, but I 1001 00:46:25,320 --> 00:46:27,920 don't find him undeserving. Who's on your second team. I 1002 00:46:27,920 --> 00:46:29,639 think there's more a few more. 1003 00:46:29,800 --> 00:46:33,480 Speaker 2: Interesting one, right, So, Draymond's there. Obviously I have I 1004 00:46:33,519 --> 00:46:36,760 want We're pretty different here. Actually I have Chris Dunn, 1005 00:46:37,320 --> 00:46:40,239 Derek Lively, Aman Thompson, and Jalen Williams is on the 1006 00:46:40,280 --> 00:46:42,400 second team. We talked a little bit about Jalen Williams. 1007 00:46:42,519 --> 00:46:46,000 Your room protection staff for him is insane. He is 1008 00:46:46,079 --> 00:46:50,440 a true five position defender and then now has as 1009 00:46:50,519 --> 00:46:52,559 validated by the fact that he played center for a 1010 00:46:52,559 --> 00:46:54,599 good chunk of the season for a really good defense 1011 00:46:54,880 --> 00:46:56,920 and did all the things you'd want a center to do. 1012 00:46:57,960 --> 00:47:00,320 So if you have questions about the rest, you know, 1013 00:47:00,519 --> 00:47:01,320 fire away. 1014 00:47:01,400 --> 00:47:04,000 Speaker 1: But how do you and this will because I have 1015 00:47:04,079 --> 00:47:06,239 some of these guys on here, how do you reconcile 1016 00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:09,880 these guys like a Chris Dunn who's not necessarily or 1017 00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:11,840 Derek Lively even where they kind of like co op 1018 00:47:11,880 --> 00:47:14,360 the center position with Daniel Gafford perfectly. How do you 1019 00:47:14,400 --> 00:47:16,280 met where I'm in Thompson coming off the bench. They're 1020 00:47:16,280 --> 00:47:18,679 not playing a ton of minutes, but they're clearly like 1021 00:47:18,719 --> 00:47:20,119 one of the most impact. 1022 00:47:21,559 --> 00:47:23,360 Speaker 2: The minest thing is hard to get to and that's why, 1023 00:47:23,480 --> 00:47:25,800 like I think one of the reasons that I didn't 1024 00:47:25,800 --> 00:47:28,159 mention that Daniels made first team over some of these 1025 00:47:28,199 --> 00:47:30,480 other guys. Is like he's just played a ton and 1026 00:47:30,519 --> 00:47:32,519 so the volume is there. And then after I get 1027 00:47:32,559 --> 00:47:35,519 past first team, I don't know, maybe unconsciously my requirements 1028 00:47:35,559 --> 00:47:38,199 shift a little bit and it gets more towards like 1029 00:47:38,320 --> 00:47:42,760 honestly the best cases for Thompson and Lively and Done. 1030 00:47:42,880 --> 00:47:44,920 Although Done is like he was, you know, first or 1031 00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:47,440 second in defensive estimated plus minus as recently as a 1032 00:47:47,480 --> 00:47:51,039 couple of days ago, that's not that's not a cumulative stat. 1033 00:47:51,079 --> 00:47:52,840 That is a rate stat, So that doesn't address the 1034 00:47:52,880 --> 00:47:56,079 volume component you're bringing up. It's like I test stuff 1035 00:47:56,079 --> 00:47:59,320 and for Done specifically, just to start with, like somebody's 1036 00:47:59,360 --> 00:48:01,719 doing this for theer now it is collective. Zubots is 1037 00:48:01,719 --> 00:48:03,760 someone I forget if I yeah, I think I moved 1038 00:48:03,760 --> 00:48:07,400 them down to honorable mention. Zubots has been great guys. 1039 00:48:07,480 --> 00:48:11,239 I mean, like this is a collective effort, but I 1040 00:48:11,239 --> 00:48:11,920 think Done. 1041 00:48:12,559 --> 00:48:14,679 Speaker 1: Good Specifically, I just wanted to shout out they have 1042 00:48:14,840 --> 00:48:17,400 one player taller than six to eight who's in the 1043 00:48:17,400 --> 00:48:19,719 regular rotation, Like I don't Obamba has gotten some spot 1044 00:48:19,719 --> 00:48:21,719 minutes here. We saw a Kai Jones thing, and they're 1045 00:48:21,760 --> 00:48:25,000 first in defensive rebounding. Still, yeah, that's absurd. 1046 00:48:25,159 --> 00:48:28,320 Speaker 2: It's amazing, and like so Done is just has been 1047 00:48:28,320 --> 00:48:30,519 for a while. He's kind of one of like my guys. 1048 00:48:30,599 --> 00:48:32,599 I think I feel like I bring him up anytime 1049 00:48:32,639 --> 00:48:36,280 there's an underrated list to do or whatever. He's just 1050 00:48:36,320 --> 00:48:38,679 so good on the ball and so good off the ball, 1051 00:48:38,760 --> 00:48:41,639 like point of attack defenders are not the same as Biggs, 1052 00:48:41,679 --> 00:48:44,119 And really I think if we're I don't know, if 1053 00:48:44,119 --> 00:48:46,320 we really dove into this, we probably should just have 1054 00:48:46,679 --> 00:48:50,239 ten big guys on here. But I think Done for 1055 00:48:50,320 --> 00:48:52,840 his job is about as good as it gets and 1056 00:48:53,000 --> 00:48:56,079 has just made a huge difference for like a Clippers 1057 00:48:56,159 --> 00:48:59,239 defense that you're playing James Harden, Like somebody has to 1058 00:48:59,280 --> 00:49:02,320 take on the low of guarding whoever the best perimeter 1059 00:49:02,400 --> 00:49:05,159 threat happens to be because your you know, key offensive 1060 00:49:05,159 --> 00:49:08,840 guy can't do it. Lively, I'll just go. I like 1061 00:49:09,280 --> 00:49:12,159 these two guys, especially Thompson and Lively, are real eye 1062 00:49:12,199 --> 00:49:16,199 test monsters. Like Lively's mobility as like a true seven 1063 00:49:16,239 --> 00:49:18,679 foot big might be my favorite in the league, like 1064 00:49:18,920 --> 00:49:22,519 maybe next to Mobiley, just because like he can be 1065 00:49:22,559 --> 00:49:25,519 an elite rim protector and he can make the multiple 1066 00:49:25,519 --> 00:49:28,159 effort plays like you know, close out on one guy, 1067 00:49:28,559 --> 00:49:31,360 recover to the rim, you know, turn a drive away, 1068 00:49:31,719 --> 00:49:35,000 get the defensive rebound. Like he's just he's so mobile 1069 00:49:35,039 --> 00:49:37,280 and he's like really he makes a lot of the 1070 00:49:37,360 --> 00:49:40,360 right decisions for a young guy. And same with Aman Thompson. 1071 00:49:40,360 --> 00:49:43,719 Maybe Thompson is just the most I don't know, Like 1072 00:49:44,079 --> 00:49:47,320 I feel like I use this for describing Evan Mobley's drives, 1073 00:49:47,320 --> 00:49:50,159 but like most predatory defender there is like he just 1074 00:49:50,239 --> 00:49:52,760 like he flips the dynamic. I like to use that too, 1075 00:49:52,800 --> 00:49:55,760 where it's like you don't really attack Amen Thompson, you 1076 00:49:55,880 --> 00:49:58,239 just like try not to get attacked by him when 1077 00:49:58,280 --> 00:50:01,559 he doesn't have the ball, like it's the offense defense 1078 00:50:01,559 --> 00:50:02,800 and then flips him. 1079 00:50:03,039 --> 00:50:06,000 Speaker 1: Teams will just the rockets and just start scram switching 1080 00:50:06,039 --> 00:50:07,519 so that he can guard the balls. 1081 00:50:08,920 --> 00:50:12,719 Speaker 2: Yeah, he just uh, whether it's like a you know, 1082 00:50:13,159 --> 00:50:15,360 the rip on Rob Dillingham late in the in the 1083 00:50:15,440 --> 00:50:18,360 Rob Dillingham, Oh there he is game earlier this season 1084 00:50:18,400 --> 00:50:20,719 where like don't dribble. It's like the Kawhi thing, like 1085 00:50:20,719 --> 00:50:23,599 don't dribble near the guy, Like peak Kawai was, You're 1086 00:50:23,599 --> 00:50:26,039 not allowed to dribble in his vicinity. Thompson is that way, 1087 00:50:26,480 --> 00:50:28,840 and he has the athleticism to you know, be a 1088 00:50:28,880 --> 00:50:32,000 great rebounder, be a good rim protector, all that stuff, 1089 00:50:32,039 --> 00:50:34,360 like you mentioned it earlier. He just like his versatility 1090 00:50:34,400 --> 00:50:36,159 on defense's bananas. 1091 00:50:36,400 --> 00:50:38,320 Speaker 1: I would like to nominate that we get rid of 1092 00:50:38,360 --> 00:50:40,440 one all rookie team, so there's just one all rookie 1093 00:50:40,480 --> 00:50:42,960 team then, and then we have a third all defense team. 1094 00:50:43,079 --> 00:50:45,280 I'm not I'm not like a fan of doing more work, 1095 00:50:45,320 --> 00:50:47,159 but I honestly think if we had three all defense 1096 00:50:47,199 --> 00:50:48,840 teams this would have been easier for me. 1097 00:50:48,920 --> 00:50:52,519 Speaker 2: Anyway. It's hard well, and like again, as you know, 1098 00:50:52,559 --> 00:50:54,719 as much as we rely on stats and stuff, defense 1099 00:50:54,760 --> 00:50:57,079 is still just harder to evaluate. I think that's why 1100 00:50:57,079 --> 00:50:57,559 a lot of the. 1101 00:50:57,480 --> 00:50:58,960 Speaker 1: Time, isn't it. 1102 00:50:59,039 --> 00:51:02,320 Speaker 2: That's what I wants to more. Actually, we do measure 1103 00:51:02,400 --> 00:51:04,800 like who's on the floor, like diving for loose balls 1104 00:51:04,840 --> 00:51:08,639 to recover, but yeah, I go more eye test than 1105 00:51:08,679 --> 00:51:12,519 anything else for defense, just because I think it's hard 1106 00:51:12,559 --> 00:51:15,719 to measure like how much of an impact a player 1107 00:51:15,760 --> 00:51:17,440 makes on a ball handler, and like how much he 1108 00:51:17,519 --> 00:51:19,719 MUCKs up a play where that doesn't involve a steal 1109 00:51:19,840 --> 00:51:21,320 or a block or a defensive rebound. 1110 00:51:21,400 --> 00:51:25,280 Speaker 1: You know, let's go to mind which are somewhat similar 1111 00:51:25,280 --> 00:51:28,119 to yours. So my first team is my all defense ballots. 1112 00:51:28,119 --> 00:51:29,920 So I have Draymond, I have Evan Mobley, and I 1113 00:51:29,920 --> 00:51:33,280 have Wemby. I also Jaron Jackson junior like you, and 1114 00:51:33,280 --> 00:51:35,119 then I have Rudy Gobert on there just for all 1115 00:51:35,119 --> 00:51:37,199 the reasons you meant, like the on off splits with him, 1116 00:51:37,280 --> 00:51:40,519 or and say, I do have Dyson Daniels on second team. 1117 00:51:40,679 --> 00:51:42,400 He has a good first team case. He's also has 1118 00:51:42,679 --> 00:51:46,679 per people in deck, the highest matchup difficulty on defense 1119 00:51:46,719 --> 00:51:47,440 of any He's. 1120 00:51:47,599 --> 00:51:50,800 Speaker 2: Always the guy that is on on Steph, on Tatum, 1121 00:51:50,840 --> 00:51:51,440 on whoever. 1122 00:51:51,920 --> 00:51:53,840 Speaker 1: I have Chris Dune as well, for all the reasons 1123 00:51:53,880 --> 00:51:55,599 you listened. It was the minutes thing. I it was 1124 00:51:55,679 --> 00:51:58,000 tough to square away, but I approach it as like 1125 00:51:58,039 --> 00:51:59,840 once we get past the first team and then if 1126 00:51:59,840 --> 00:52:02,440 it's it's more so the third team, Like I'll fuck 1127 00:52:02,480 --> 00:52:04,519 around with if I believe the player has been better. 1128 00:52:05,119 --> 00:52:06,760 They don't have the minutes, but I do believe he's 1129 00:52:06,800 --> 00:52:11,000 been more valuable. Like Dune gets the nod for Amen Thompson. Uh, 1130 00:52:11,079 --> 00:52:13,519 he's like, is he the premier? Maybe you would figure 1131 00:52:13,599 --> 00:52:16,400 Dyson Daniels is, but like Amen, Toms might be the 1132 00:52:16,440 --> 00:52:18,719 premiere don't try it guy on the perimeter. But then 1133 00:52:18,760 --> 00:52:20,760 he's also a hybrid big as well. 1134 00:52:21,760 --> 00:52:24,000 Speaker 2: I think he's the guy most likely to him. Yeah, 1135 00:52:24,159 --> 00:52:26,199 And I think that's right because Daniels is like Daniels 1136 00:52:26,239 --> 00:52:29,719 will do the poke away. Thompson just like eats people 1137 00:52:29,960 --> 00:52:32,559 like he like, yeah, he does the more like embarrassing 1138 00:52:32,599 --> 00:52:34,880 stuff to you. So I think that's right. Uh. 1139 00:52:34,880 --> 00:52:36,920 Speaker 1: And then so I have lou Dort. I don't have 1140 00:52:37,000 --> 00:52:38,800 j Dubb. He was an He's an honorable mention for me, 1141 00:52:38,840 --> 00:52:41,320 and we'll get to those very quickly. I just he 1142 00:52:41,480 --> 00:52:45,119 shoulders the heaviest workload for the league's premiere defense, and 1143 00:52:45,159 --> 00:52:47,239 I somehow think over the past couple of seasons that's 1144 00:52:47,280 --> 00:52:51,679 been underappreciated. And so when you're playing as much as 1145 00:52:51,679 --> 00:52:54,880 he's going to play, and like, I don't like, I 1146 00:52:54,960 --> 00:52:59,119 just think what Jay Dubb does, what Shay does? I 1147 00:52:59,159 --> 00:53:01,519 even think like, would you be able to use Cason 1148 00:53:01,519 --> 00:53:03,360 Wallace and Alice Caruso the way that you do if 1149 00:53:03,400 --> 00:53:05,840 lou Dort does not exist? And to me, the answer 1150 00:53:05,880 --> 00:53:08,280 is just no. And so I considered him for first team, 1151 00:53:08,599 --> 00:53:12,280 and I have Bamn my first team. I can't, I don't. 1152 00:53:12,480 --> 00:53:15,840 He is, to me, probably the most versatile defender in 1153 00:53:15,840 --> 00:53:19,000 the he's he's certainly top five in versatility. The room 1154 00:53:19,079 --> 00:53:22,000 protection stuff has dropped off from last year, but like 1155 00:53:22,400 --> 00:53:25,079 he just guards no any of the defensive player that 1156 00:53:25,119 --> 00:53:29,280 your candidates we listed Draymond, Rudy, Evan Mobley, Wemby, Bamana 1157 00:53:29,280 --> 00:53:31,199 Bayo is more likely to guard a number one option 1158 00:53:31,400 --> 00:53:33,760 than all of those guys, and so to have that, 1159 00:53:33,800 --> 00:53:35,840 but you're also like kind of your team's big man. 1160 00:53:36,360 --> 00:53:38,039 I didn't know what to do with him, but I 1161 00:53:38,039 --> 00:53:40,840 think he firmly belongs on an all defense team. 1162 00:53:41,639 --> 00:53:44,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, and he's well, actually, I want to talk about 1163 00:53:44,000 --> 00:53:46,039 Dort first. I think Dort is a great pick, and 1164 00:53:46,199 --> 00:53:49,079 I totally agree that like he feels like he's a 1165 00:53:49,159 --> 00:53:52,159 victim of being such a known and understood commodity. Like 1166 00:53:52,199 --> 00:53:54,320 it's just because it's been however many you know what, 1167 00:53:54,440 --> 00:53:56,639 three four, maybe more than that year is where it's 1168 00:53:56,679 --> 00:53:59,440 just like that guy sucks to be guarded by because 1169 00:53:59,440 --> 00:54:02,559 he's so physic strong, he's so hard to screen. He 1170 00:54:02,760 --> 00:54:04,920 gets just up underneath you. If you're like a tall 1171 00:54:05,000 --> 00:54:08,559 like taller perimeter players. It's just hate being guarded by him. 1172 00:54:09,000 --> 00:54:13,039 But but it's like, oh chet Chet's amazing. Oh Alex Cruso, 1173 00:54:13,119 --> 00:54:14,960 there's there's the best of it. Oh Shay leads the 1174 00:54:15,039 --> 00:54:17,760 league in steals. Our Jada can play set like we 1175 00:54:17,920 --> 00:54:19,880 just forget about Dort. So I'm glad you have him 1176 00:54:19,880 --> 00:54:23,639 on here because like he and he's just like he's 1177 00:54:23,800 --> 00:54:25,920 one of the best defensive wings in the league and 1178 00:54:26,079 --> 00:54:27,920 he's been that for long enough and does it in 1179 00:54:27,920 --> 00:54:30,559 a way that's like unspectacular, and it's not fair to 1180 00:54:30,599 --> 00:54:31,760 exclude him for that reason. 1181 00:54:32,679 --> 00:54:35,039 Speaker 1: For by the way, as it added on To'm and Thompson, 1182 00:54:35,119 --> 00:54:37,199 it was between Tarry Easton or Am and Tooms, I 1183 00:54:37,239 --> 00:54:38,760 was just a rocket has to be on there, and 1184 00:54:38,840 --> 00:54:42,039 I think, Amen, Thompson is just better. Yeah, toughest cuts. 1185 00:54:41,760 --> 00:54:44,239 Speaker 2: For you man, Well, I kind of this is kind 1186 00:54:44,239 --> 00:54:46,920 of like our honorale mentions. Easan for sure was hard 1187 00:54:46,960 --> 00:54:49,480 to not put on there because maybe you can go 1188 00:54:49,519 --> 00:54:51,440 with the minutes on that, I guess, although I didn't 1189 00:54:51,440 --> 00:54:54,840 really for anybody else. The deflections like he just his 1190 00:54:55,559 --> 00:54:57,119 I don't know, do we talk about who's the most 1191 00:54:57,119 --> 00:54:59,960 disruptive defender, like because it might just be Ethan because 1192 00:55:00,159 --> 00:55:02,719 the way he just like speeds the game up, the 1193 00:55:02,760 --> 00:55:06,559 way he you know, causes deflections, creates transition opportunities. He's 1194 00:55:06,639 --> 00:55:08,679 doing a right up on him earlier this year, and 1195 00:55:09,000 --> 00:55:11,679 the Rockets transition frequency just goes through the roof when 1196 00:55:11,679 --> 00:55:13,960 he's on the floor, And it's just because like he's 1197 00:55:14,000 --> 00:55:16,880 causing mistakes and you know they get on runouts because 1198 00:55:16,880 --> 00:55:19,920 of him. So Chet is another one we should talk about. 1199 00:55:20,280 --> 00:55:23,559 If Chet had played five more games, he's probably first team, 1200 00:55:23,719 --> 00:55:26,320 I think, like without much fuss, So I have to 1201 00:55:26,360 --> 00:55:31,400 mention him. Let's see, Oh, here's one Oji in and 1202 00:55:31,440 --> 00:55:34,199 Obi for both of us did not make a first 1203 00:55:34,280 --> 00:55:37,960 or second team, and that feels wrong, but like there's 1204 00:55:37,960 --> 00:55:40,039 just only so many spots. Did you have a did 1205 00:55:40,079 --> 00:55:41,880 you have? I see he's one of your honorable mentions too. 1206 00:55:41,920 --> 00:55:43,880 Is there a reason that he just didn't quite get 1207 00:55:43,880 --> 00:55:44,639 the top ten for you? 1208 00:55:46,320 --> 00:55:49,119 Speaker 1: Honestly, I don't know. That's like a really good question. 1209 00:55:49,199 --> 00:55:51,760 I think that he hasn't been like he's been in 1210 00:55:51,840 --> 00:55:54,320 his role dominant and maybe I'm waiting the team returns 1211 00:55:54,360 --> 00:55:56,400 too much. That'd be a good one to look at revaluate. 1212 00:55:56,440 --> 00:55:58,360 I think the Knicks are in like the fifty fifth 1213 00:55:58,360 --> 00:56:00,679 percentile defense efficiency when he's on the court, when you 1214 00:56:00,719 --> 00:56:03,599 consider how much he's played with Karl Anthony Towns and 1215 00:56:03,639 --> 00:56:06,639 also how bad Michel Bridges has been for a lot 1216 00:56:06,639 --> 00:56:08,679 of this year. Yeah, that might be like that might 1217 00:56:08,719 --> 00:56:10,480 be an erroneous cuts where Okay, well look at how 1218 00:56:10,559 --> 00:56:13,679 much he's playing, why does he belong? Why doesn't he belong? 1219 00:56:13,760 --> 00:56:17,039 Overdone or Alman Thompson so all fully fully admit to 1220 00:56:17,079 --> 00:56:18,760 that one. I also had Jones Sugg was a really 1221 00:56:18,800 --> 00:56:21,400 tough cut for me. Orlando's defense is better with him 1222 00:56:21,440 --> 00:56:23,840 off the court. I didn't factor that much in Uh, 1223 00:56:24,079 --> 00:56:25,400 this is why I wish I had a third team. 1224 00:56:25,880 --> 00:56:28,280 I also think if there was a third team and 1225 00:56:28,320 --> 00:56:30,360 he had played more, I might have considered Kevin Durant 1226 00:56:30,559 --> 00:56:34,440 has been fantastic defensively. Tamani Kamara has been great in Portland. 1227 00:56:34,880 --> 00:56:37,360 Was another one. Trying to think if there's an you 1228 00:56:37,400 --> 00:56:39,159 had Zubats, I know you mentioned him already, I did 1229 00:56:39,159 --> 00:56:41,079 not really consider him. That might be one I need 1230 00:56:41,079 --> 00:56:41,599 to look at. 1231 00:56:41,840 --> 00:56:44,360 Speaker 2: I mean, Derek White Andrew Holiday, like we had. 1232 00:56:44,239 --> 00:56:46,480 Speaker 1: Just yeah, a Celtic Al Horford? Why not? 1233 00:56:46,760 --> 00:56:49,119 Speaker 2: Like sure, I mean Tatum even has been a really 1234 00:56:49,159 --> 00:56:50,679 good defensive play like just just. 1235 00:56:51,000 --> 00:56:53,719 Speaker 1: Low activity relative to like the guys that would be mentioned. 1236 00:56:53,480 --> 00:56:55,400 Speaker 2: In that It is interesting. I think I mentioned this 1237 00:56:55,480 --> 00:56:57,800 in the All NBA part, like it is interesting that 1238 00:56:57,840 --> 00:57:01,320 he guards centers and maybe maybe that's like that's. 1239 00:57:01,159 --> 00:57:04,440 Speaker 1: Your case for j Dubbs. So why is got to 1240 00:57:04,480 --> 00:57:05,119 be consistent? 1241 00:57:05,760 --> 00:57:08,239 Speaker 2: I think that's I didn't have Bam. Bam is obviously 1242 00:57:08,239 --> 00:57:12,840 someone that Warren's mentioned. But yeah, we've that's defense is hard. 1243 00:57:13,199 --> 00:57:14,079 Let's leave it at that. 1244 00:57:15,159 --> 00:57:18,920 Speaker 1: Our next category is Rookie of the Year, which just feels, oh, 1245 00:57:18,920 --> 00:57:20,880 we were I thought we were consensus here, So I 1246 00:57:21,000 --> 00:57:23,960 have I'll read mind first McCain at one, Steph Castle 1247 00:57:24,000 --> 00:57:27,639 at two, and then Janalen Wells at three. Who you got. 1248 00:57:28,239 --> 00:57:30,719 Speaker 2: I've got McCain one, Castle two as well, and I 1249 00:57:30,760 --> 00:57:33,840 went connect Dalton connect. He plays for the Los Angeles Lakers. 1250 00:57:33,880 --> 00:57:35,480 If you're unfamiliar or I have not seen any of 1251 00:57:35,480 --> 00:57:38,320 the media coverage about him, four year player out of 1252 00:57:38,320 --> 00:57:40,039 college is actually is I don't even know if he's 1253 00:57:40,039 --> 00:57:41,639 a four year player. I just know he had a 1254 00:57:41,679 --> 00:57:47,000 longer collegiate career than everybody thinks. That means he can't 1255 00:57:47,039 --> 00:57:50,679 be good, uh or better than this, which was so 1256 00:57:50,840 --> 00:57:53,559 hard because I well, should we talk about McCain and 1257 00:57:53,880 --> 00:57:55,000 Castle first, because. 1258 00:57:54,880 --> 00:57:58,000 Speaker 1: We were backwards, because we have our differences at number three? 1259 00:57:58,239 --> 00:58:01,480 Speaker 2: So Wells is a more complete player. Wells is a 1260 00:58:01,480 --> 00:58:05,719 good defensive player. I'm just making your case for you. Yeah, 1261 00:58:05,800 --> 00:58:08,599 I think Connects shooting is is just so valuable. You 1262 00:58:08,599 --> 00:58:11,079 can do it off movement. He has great size on 1263 00:58:11,119 --> 00:58:14,519 the wing. He's had probably I think it's the most 1264 00:58:14,559 --> 00:58:17,079 explosive game by any rookie of this season, the shrug 1265 00:58:17,119 --> 00:58:21,239 game when he just couldn't miss a three. I think 1266 00:58:21,280 --> 00:58:24,119 his I'm trying to well, I mean, because this was 1267 00:58:24,159 --> 00:58:26,199 the hardest one for me between him and Wells for 1268 00:58:26,280 --> 00:58:29,920 this third spot. I think I go Connect just because 1269 00:58:30,400 --> 00:58:33,119 he's a Laker, saying because he's a Laker and I 1270 00:58:33,199 --> 00:58:36,800 want this to do well in the big markets and 1271 00:58:37,079 --> 00:58:39,960 I'm a shill. Is that good? I just think the 1272 00:58:40,000 --> 00:58:43,320 shooting skill, the size, the offensive smarts, like I mean, 1273 00:58:43,320 --> 00:58:45,760 Wells has a lot of that stuff. It's easier for 1274 00:58:45,800 --> 00:58:48,360 me to make the case that that connect is just 1275 00:58:48,400 --> 00:58:52,920 going to be like a plus plus shooter. You know, 1276 00:58:53,719 --> 00:58:55,360 it has been a plus plus shooter and is the 1277 00:58:55,440 --> 00:58:57,599 kind of guy that defenses like freak out about I 1278 00:58:57,679 --> 00:58:59,719 don't know that that's the case with Wells. 1279 00:59:01,199 --> 00:59:04,840 Speaker 1: Here's my thing with Jylen Wills. The Grizzlies are sixth 1280 00:59:05,000 --> 00:59:08,519 in points loud per possession. They are better, stingier when 1281 00:59:08,519 --> 00:59:10,840 he's on the court. He's a rookie, and they have decided, 1282 00:59:11,000 --> 00:59:13,679 mostly out of necessity, you have to just go guard 1283 00:59:14,239 --> 00:59:16,119 all the other best players, and then he's gonna go 1284 00:59:16,119 --> 00:59:17,440 at the other end, and there'll be some stuff that 1285 00:59:17,480 --> 00:59:19,320 he does off the dribble that'll catch you off guard 1286 00:59:19,360 --> 00:59:21,239 every now and then, but he'll just hit his threes 1287 00:59:22,199 --> 00:59:27,280 if you want to say elite, like second most important 1288 00:59:27,320 --> 00:59:29,599 defender or I guess third. If you consider the Zachi 1289 00:59:29,599 --> 00:59:33,840 eighty minutes, top three most important defender on the league's 1290 00:59:33,840 --> 00:59:36,360 sixth best defense while hitting your threes at the other 1291 00:59:36,480 --> 00:59:42,599 end as a rookie, that's like if McCain never comes 1292 00:59:42,639 --> 00:59:44,639 onto the scene, like I think he has a case 1293 00:59:44,679 --> 00:59:47,400 to be better than Steph Castle here. I think it's 1294 00:59:47,519 --> 00:59:49,639 just I have Steph at number two versus McCain. We 1295 00:59:49,679 --> 00:59:52,800 can get into that now. I think McCain just as 1296 00:59:52,840 --> 00:59:55,320 a self starter on the offensive end, hitting difficult shots. 1297 00:59:55,480 --> 00:59:58,000 He's shooting like fifty percent off catch and shoot threes, 1298 00:59:58,000 --> 01:00:02,119 he'shooting over fifty percent two's. That is just going to 1299 01:00:02,199 --> 01:00:06,400 be like to drive any part of the offense as 1300 01:00:06,400 --> 01:00:10,159 a like initiator at this stage of the game. That's 1301 01:00:10,199 --> 01:00:14,119 a big deal. And then also his drives grant they 1302 01:00:14,239 --> 01:00:17,360 end in points. So a made bucket or free throws 1303 01:00:17,719 --> 01:00:20,679 sixty nine point five percent of the time. That's right 1304 01:00:20,719 --> 01:00:23,079 in line with Jason Tatum who's at sixty nine point 1305 01:00:23,119 --> 01:00:25,760 eight percent, and then shake Gilgos Alexander who's at sixty 1306 01:00:25,840 --> 01:00:28,360 nine point five percent, and we're not dealing with in 1307 01:00:28,440 --> 01:00:32,159 some sure there's a volume discrepancy, but per game, like 1308 01:00:32,239 --> 01:00:33,960 Jared McCain's drives are going to be through the roof. 1309 01:00:34,000 --> 01:00:35,679 I think he's at like nine or something a game. 1310 01:00:36,360 --> 01:00:38,519 That's just I think it matters that Steph has been 1311 01:00:38,679 --> 01:00:41,280 a Steph. People don't think I'm talking about Curry. Castle 1312 01:00:41,280 --> 01:00:43,119 has been a very good defender as a rookie. I 1313 01:00:43,199 --> 01:00:45,960 think we've seen flashes of playmaking on the offensive end. 1314 01:00:46,039 --> 01:00:48,360 I think we've also seen you can space him out 1315 01:00:48,480 --> 01:00:50,119 kind of far when he gets them to go in. 1316 01:00:50,159 --> 01:00:51,800 I'm a little bit I feel a little bit better 1317 01:00:52,159 --> 01:00:54,360 about his jumper, although the release just feels a little 1318 01:00:54,400 --> 01:00:58,280 bit low. Still, it was tough. But I think right 1319 01:00:58,320 --> 01:01:00,639 now and I think this will be interesting monitor before 1320 01:01:00,679 --> 01:01:02,159 I throw it to you, because what is if the 1321 01:01:02,199 --> 01:01:05,760 sixers are ever fully healthy, what does McCain's role look 1322 01:01:05,840 --> 01:01:08,199 like when Joelle Embiid and Maxie and George are available 1323 01:01:08,239 --> 01:01:08,960 at the same time. 1324 01:01:09,199 --> 01:01:11,679 Speaker 2: Yeah, Unfortunately, that's not a concern for us at this 1325 01:01:11,719 --> 01:01:13,360 point because it's just based on what he's done. But 1326 01:01:13,400 --> 01:01:15,199 that is a question going forward for them because I 1327 01:01:15,280 --> 01:01:18,760 don't think, and I think rightfully there, I don't think 1328 01:01:18,760 --> 01:01:21,119 they're comfortable with him and Maxie as a backcourt together 1329 01:01:21,239 --> 01:01:24,000 just because of the size and the defensive issues. So 1330 01:01:24,360 --> 01:01:30,960 if it's possible that McCain becomes like a like a 1331 01:01:31,119 --> 01:01:34,880 really plus like luxury off the bench guard that can 1332 01:01:35,000 --> 01:01:37,000 run some of the offense, that will or you could 1333 01:01:37,000 --> 01:01:38,760 just run them around off the ball, whatever you want 1334 01:01:38,800 --> 01:01:42,400 to do. But I don't think that should detract from 1335 01:01:42,440 --> 01:01:47,199 like just he's been the most electrifying rookie scorer by 1336 01:01:47,519 --> 01:01:50,039 like just a stupid margin this year, right, Like he's 1337 01:01:50,239 --> 01:01:54,079 he's had games where he's been their top option. Like 1338 01:01:54,119 --> 01:01:56,920 you can't really say that about anybody else in this class. 1339 01:01:57,440 --> 01:01:59,400 Speaker 1: So consider, I want to make this fan base mad 1340 01:01:59,440 --> 01:02:01,079 because they hate me right now. And I love we 1341 01:02:01,119 --> 01:02:02,639 have some Rockets fans in the discord. I love you 1342 01:02:02,719 --> 01:02:05,320 join our discord. How's that for promo? Jared McCain and 1343 01:02:05,320 --> 01:02:07,880 that Clippers twenty twenty eight first round pick from the 1344 01:02:07,880 --> 01:02:10,519 Clippers for Tar Eastan. I think there has to be 1345 01:02:10,559 --> 01:02:12,679 more money involved, or maybe not. I can't but whatever, 1346 01:02:12,920 --> 01:02:15,840 If that's the framework, who says no, that Clippers pick 1347 01:02:15,880 --> 01:02:19,480 and McCain for Tar Easan? It's probably the Sixers, right, 1348 01:02:20,960 --> 01:02:23,719 Probably that McCain is better. But those are two, yeah, 1349 01:02:24,039 --> 01:02:27,679 really and McCain and Houston, they both probably say no 1350 01:02:27,800 --> 01:02:30,840 because if you're gonna play McCain, just fucking play Read Shepherd. 1351 01:02:31,639 --> 01:02:36,800 Speaker 2: Yeah right. That's a conspicuous absence from our our list 1352 01:02:36,840 --> 01:02:38,960 and our all rookie teams, which we're gonna get into, 1353 01:02:39,440 --> 01:02:42,599 do we. We don't really talk about Castle that much. Just 1354 01:02:42,679 --> 01:02:46,599 sucks terrible. I mean he does suck at shooting the basketball, 1355 01:02:46,639 --> 01:02:48,679 that is that is something that should be mentioned. He's great, 1356 01:02:48,760 --> 01:02:50,960 I think at everything else, including the intangibles that you 1357 01:02:51,079 --> 01:02:53,679 want to see in a guy. That like might ultimately 1358 01:02:53,719 --> 01:02:56,039 be number two to Wimby down the road. 1359 01:02:56,360 --> 01:02:58,159 Speaker 1: The fact that he's learning from CP three to two 1360 01:02:58,320 --> 01:03:00,800 gives me, imbuse me with some like lot of confidence 1361 01:03:00,800 --> 01:03:02,800 that he might turn into a murderer on offense at 1362 01:03:02,840 --> 01:03:05,360 some point, maybe inefficiently, but he'll still murder people. 1363 01:03:05,679 --> 01:03:09,599 Speaker 2: The athleticism, the like, the feel, the connective passing, all 1364 01:03:09,599 --> 01:03:12,599 that stuff is really there. It's you know, and if 1365 01:03:12,599 --> 01:03:14,320 he can make the ball go in the basket, this 1366 01:03:14,639 --> 01:03:17,559 I still think. I think Castle has the highest ceiling 1367 01:03:17,559 --> 01:03:19,679 in the class. It's just like the hurdle to get 1368 01:03:19,760 --> 01:03:22,480 over of can you make shots is like a pretty 1369 01:03:22,480 --> 01:03:25,920 big one, pretty significant concern for someone that you probably 1370 01:03:25,960 --> 01:03:27,440 want on the ball a lot, right. 1371 01:03:27,559 --> 01:03:31,199 Speaker 1: Ultimately, Yeah, let's get to the all rookie team. So 1372 01:03:31,519 --> 01:03:34,960 my first team i'll go first, is gonna include spoiler alert, Castle, 1373 01:03:35,360 --> 01:03:38,320 McCain and Wells. I also have connect on there, the shooting, 1374 01:03:38,320 --> 01:03:41,920 the motion shooting, huge element, and then I have Zachary Resiche. 1375 01:03:42,039 --> 01:03:44,880 I initially had Zach Edy and then you kind of 1376 01:03:44,880 --> 01:03:47,280 swayed me on this, so we have the same first team. 1377 01:03:47,880 --> 01:03:49,719 Yours will be revealed in a second. You can ask 1378 01:03:49,719 --> 01:03:52,559 me any questions you have about second team, but Zachary 1379 01:03:52,599 --> 01:03:54,920 Riche has just played. I know this isn't again these 1380 01:03:55,119 --> 01:03:57,519 these teams specifically, I'm not trying to wait. Like, to me, 1381 01:03:57,599 --> 01:03:59,400 minutes should matter more for rookie of the year than 1382 01:03:59,440 --> 01:04:01,320 they should for all rookie. He's been like double the 1383 01:04:01,360 --> 01:04:03,639 amount of minutes of zach Ede and so I just can't. 1384 01:04:04,000 --> 01:04:07,639 I can't get there. I will say though, like long term, 1385 01:04:07,719 --> 01:04:09,119 not long term, but looking ahead for the rest of 1386 01:04:09,119 --> 01:04:11,440 the season, which this is not. It does feel like 1387 01:04:11,440 --> 01:04:13,280 the Grizzlies might be more likely to close games with 1388 01:04:13,320 --> 01:04:15,400 Eadie than the Hawks are with Ree. That might be 1389 01:04:15,400 --> 01:04:18,760 something monitor but I mean, you had to rear share 1390 01:04:18,760 --> 01:04:20,519 on your first team, so I'll let you get it. 1391 01:04:20,519 --> 01:04:24,119 There are you any questions with like your first teams 1392 01:04:24,159 --> 01:04:25,800 the same? You don't have any questions about my first team, 1393 01:04:25,800 --> 01:04:26,760 I'm assuming. 1394 01:04:26,719 --> 01:04:28,760 Speaker 2: I just like, yeah, my question would be like when, 1395 01:04:28,760 --> 01:04:31,159 when exactly did you see the light that should be 1396 01:04:31,199 --> 01:04:32,000 on it over Edie? 1397 01:04:32,239 --> 01:04:33,000 Speaker 1: It look. 1398 01:04:34,400 --> 01:04:36,840 Speaker 2: Like if EDI's kind of the chet Holgrin of the 1399 01:04:37,239 --> 01:04:39,559 rookie side of If Eadie had played a little bit more, 1400 01:04:39,760 --> 01:04:41,360 I think it probably would have just been Eatie because 1401 01:04:41,360 --> 01:04:44,079 Reche is here for volume and just like passing the 1402 01:04:44,079 --> 01:04:46,480 eye test, like he's oh, you know, he seems fairly 1403 01:04:46,519 --> 01:04:48,480 comfortable and he can look the ball looks good when 1404 01:04:48,480 --> 01:04:50,199 he shoots it, it doesn't go in, and like he 1405 01:04:50,199 --> 01:04:52,119 can make a couple of passes and he does some 1406 01:04:52,199 --> 01:04:55,159 you know, intelligent stuff defensively, but like Edie made a 1407 01:04:55,159 --> 01:04:57,119 real impact when he you know, when when Edie's in 1408 01:04:57,159 --> 01:04:58,679 the game, you really feel him in a way you 1409 01:04:58,679 --> 01:05:00,360 don't feel Reche And he. 1410 01:05:00,400 --> 01:05:02,440 Speaker 1: Look he might be Brook Lopez. They've had him shoot 1411 01:05:02,440 --> 01:05:03,280 some threes. 1412 01:05:03,119 --> 01:05:05,719 Speaker 2: They have and like he's a good free throw shooter too. 1413 01:05:05,760 --> 01:05:07,840 That helped. Like, I don't know, like I think Edie, 1414 01:05:08,360 --> 01:05:10,519 Edie's one of the five best rookies. I think like 1415 01:05:10,519 --> 01:05:12,960 if you just had to redraft it or if you're 1416 01:05:13,039 --> 01:05:16,440 just reranking it on, like who you believe in going forward? Uh, 1417 01:05:16,800 --> 01:05:19,199 but you know, resa Chet's just he's been on the 1418 01:05:19,199 --> 01:05:21,480 court so much more and just all of his counting numbers, 1419 01:05:21,480 --> 01:05:24,480 you know, he's he's just well. The other thing I 1420 01:05:24,480 --> 01:05:26,320 wanted to mention is that, like I think you're right, 1421 01:05:26,360 --> 01:05:29,039 he's not going to close. He didn't close again that 1422 01:05:29,400 --> 01:05:31,920 overtime Lakers game last night, which was amazing and has 1423 01:05:32,159 --> 01:05:33,920 kind of resold me on the Hawks a little bit, 1424 01:05:34,320 --> 01:05:36,400 which is probably stupid because the Lakers might just be bad. 1425 01:05:36,440 --> 01:05:38,599 Speaker 1: I'm honestly just impressed that you were sold on the 1426 01:05:38,639 --> 01:05:39,800 Hawks in the first. 1427 01:05:39,599 --> 01:05:43,199 Speaker 2: Place, and then Reseld, Yeah, what do I mean? Oh well, 1428 01:05:43,239 --> 01:05:45,039 I think we picked them to beat there over Under 1429 01:05:45,039 --> 01:05:46,599 pretty handily, so. 1430 01:05:46,519 --> 01:05:49,280 Speaker 1: Maybe I have no idea to remember, but they're They're 1431 01:05:49,320 --> 01:05:52,199 one of the most like pleasantly confusing teams to me. 1432 01:05:52,519 --> 01:05:54,719 Speaker 2: So part of the problem with re like the on 1433 01:05:54,840 --> 01:05:56,960 off is real bad for REESI sche and he doesn't. 1434 01:05:57,000 --> 01:05:58,360 He's not going to close a lot and a lot 1435 01:05:58,360 --> 01:06:00,440 of that's just DeAndre Hunter and him don't play together, 1436 01:06:00,440 --> 01:06:03,400 and DeAndre Hunter's been really good, so that's just tough 1437 01:06:03,480 --> 01:06:06,199 luck for him. Second teams a little more interesting here. 1438 01:06:06,199 --> 01:06:08,400 I'm trying to look at the list and see who. 1439 01:06:08,599 --> 01:06:10,840 Speaker 1: We only had one difference. But my second team is 1440 01:06:10,880 --> 01:06:13,239 bub Carrington and Washington. So I'll run through my cliff 1441 01:06:13,280 --> 01:06:16,960 notes quick. I think Comfort getting to his spots on 1442 01:06:17,039 --> 01:06:19,519 the ball. I think he's a better passer than advertised, 1443 01:06:19,519 --> 01:06:21,159 and then he uses his size. Well there it can 1444 01:06:21,199 --> 01:06:23,400 be okay, the Wizard's defense sucks, but it's someone you 1445 01:06:23,440 --> 01:06:26,639 could envision being part of a defense. I put klingon here. 1446 01:06:26,800 --> 01:06:29,039 He's not going to be eligible by year's end because 1447 01:06:29,039 --> 01:06:30,719 he's about to miss a couple months, it looks like. 1448 01:06:30,760 --> 01:06:34,159 But he's been a game changer as like like a 1449 01:06:34,199 --> 01:06:36,679 defender and just like someone on the glass. Zach Edie. 1450 01:06:36,679 --> 01:06:39,159 We already mentioned Eve's mecI if you haven't checked him 1451 01:06:39,159 --> 01:06:41,320 out with New Orleans, and I don't know what if 1452 01:06:41,360 --> 01:06:44,119 you're a casual NBA fan, don't watch the Pelicans unless 1453 01:06:44,119 --> 01:06:46,480 they're playing your favorite team. You're not going to learn too. 1454 01:06:46,559 --> 01:06:48,480 My other getting a little healthier, But I would go 1455 01:06:48,519 --> 01:06:50,519 back and look at some Eves mecI stuff. You feel 1456 01:06:50,599 --> 01:06:52,960 him on the game, like as a rebounder, as an 1457 01:06:53,039 --> 01:06:56,159 energy bringer, as a finisher pretty good. I feel like 1458 01:06:56,199 --> 01:06:57,960 he could stand us set harder screens, but he getting 1459 01:06:57,960 --> 01:07:01,039 really good at navigating even tights bases in the half court. 1460 01:07:01,320 --> 01:07:04,440 And then I have Jonathan Mobo from Toronto. He's just 1461 01:07:05,199 --> 01:07:08,679 all like all grit and hustle and like, oh gonna 1462 01:07:08,719 --> 01:07:11,880 crash the glass there, and he's thrown some really nifty 1463 01:07:11,960 --> 01:07:15,280 passes this year. You could have gone like eighty different 1464 01:07:15,280 --> 01:07:18,079 directions though, because this rookie class is all over the place. 1465 01:07:18,440 --> 01:07:22,079 Speaker 2: Yeah, I love Mobo and the transition, like the grab 1466 01:07:22,079 --> 01:07:24,119 and go from him is really a valuable thing. And 1467 01:07:24,280 --> 01:07:27,920 like he's just the intensity in the hustle that that's 1468 01:07:28,000 --> 01:07:30,239 that's a real value. Add So the only difference I 1469 01:07:30,280 --> 01:07:33,519 guess in our second team is I have Tristan Da 1470 01:07:33,559 --> 01:07:38,239 Silva from the Orlando Magic over Mobo and I think, 1471 01:07:38,400 --> 01:07:40,679 or I guess, uh An Edie versus Ressche or no, 1472 01:07:40,760 --> 01:07:41,840 you ended up with Reces say. 1473 01:07:41,679 --> 01:07:44,280 Speaker 1: There, Yeah, I put him in my team. Yeah, you 1474 01:07:44,440 --> 01:07:46,400 change yours after you. So I'm on and that's what 1475 01:07:46,440 --> 01:07:49,559 I'm that's my my my slide came up first. That's true. 1476 01:07:49,639 --> 01:07:52,840 Speaker 2: There's no way to prove uh so uh just for 1477 01:07:52,920 --> 01:07:57,920 Da Silva like pretty darn unspectacular, but he did. He 1478 01:07:57,960 --> 01:08:00,480 has so far started two thirds of the games for Magic. 1479 01:08:00,960 --> 01:08:02,880 He's got great size on the wing. He's listed at 1480 01:08:02,880 --> 01:08:05,280 six to eight and he looks that he looks to 1481 01:08:05,360 --> 01:08:07,679 have that size. And it's kind of intriguing to think 1482 01:08:07,679 --> 01:08:11,719 about the Magic going forward with like Franz and Paulo 1483 01:08:12,039 --> 01:08:15,360 and De Silva and Anthony Black, if you know, we're 1484 01:08:15,440 --> 01:08:17,199 maybe going to little ways down the road here, But 1485 01:08:17,279 --> 01:08:20,560 like man that's a rangy team that still has like 1486 01:08:20,680 --> 01:08:24,359 enough ball handling. He hasn't been the shooter Da Silva 1487 01:08:24,399 --> 01:08:27,920 that probably Orlando hoped for as a draftee, like shooting 1488 01:08:27,960 --> 01:08:31,000 thirty three percent from deep, but like, I think he 1489 01:08:31,119 --> 01:08:33,880 still has shown enough like there's nothing fundamentally wrong with 1490 01:08:33,920 --> 01:08:35,800 the shot, and I think that is going to be 1491 01:08:35,840 --> 01:08:38,399 a carrying skill for him. I think I think he's 1492 01:08:38,439 --> 01:08:41,000 gonna shoot it better. But he still is like good 1493 01:08:41,079 --> 01:08:43,279 enough on the ball to make real you know, move 1494 01:08:43,319 --> 01:08:46,920 the ball, make connected passes, pretty smart playmaker, the leanth matters, 1495 01:08:47,279 --> 01:08:51,720 decent rebounder. This is a tough spot like Mobo for sure, 1496 01:08:52,000 --> 01:08:53,800 And we'll go through our honorable mentions here, but you 1497 01:08:53,800 --> 01:08:56,600 could probably make the case for literally anybody we have 1498 01:08:57,000 --> 01:08:59,359 in our in our quote unquote third team taking this 1499 01:08:59,439 --> 01:08:59,960 last spot. 1500 01:09:00,159 --> 01:09:02,279 Speaker 1: Yeah. The one that gave me way more pause than 1501 01:09:02,319 --> 01:09:03,760 I ever could have predicted at the start of the 1502 01:09:03,760 --> 01:09:06,840 season was aj Mitchell, Right, And Okay, see, dude is 1503 01:09:06,840 --> 01:09:09,000 a defender. He's it's gonna be interesting to see if 1504 01:09:09,039 --> 01:09:11,560 he'll be eligible because he's on a two way and 1505 01:09:11,600 --> 01:09:13,479 it's not like they have these roster spots available, so 1506 01:09:13,520 --> 01:09:16,119 if they're gonna elevate him. They're gonna have to figure 1507 01:09:16,159 --> 01:09:20,880 that out. I also have well collectively we have Osoi 1508 01:09:20,920 --> 01:09:23,279 Gadara and Ryan Dunn from Phoenix. Those are two names 1509 01:09:23,279 --> 01:09:24,800 that will pop up. I had to Silva in my 1510 01:09:25,199 --> 01:09:29,239 honorable mentions as well. Anybody else you wanted to shout out? 1511 01:09:29,680 --> 01:09:33,199 Speaker 2: I mentioned Mobo. Did you say modest Bizellis he was. 1512 01:09:33,520 --> 01:09:35,560 Speaker 1: That's someone who might just work his way into the 1513 01:09:35,600 --> 01:09:38,560 actual on one of these teams by season then yeah. 1514 01:09:38,479 --> 01:09:41,079 Speaker 2: He just didn't have a big enough role through I 1515 01:09:41,119 --> 01:09:43,760 don't know, the first like fifteen games of the season, 1516 01:09:43,800 --> 01:09:46,680 and he's had these like you've seen the putback dunk, 1517 01:09:46,680 --> 01:09:50,119 you've seen some of the transition stuff, Like I think, 1518 01:09:50,199 --> 01:09:52,880 and like you really don't get to discuss him anymore, 1519 01:09:52,920 --> 01:09:55,039 like not just talking about us without bringing up like 1520 01:09:55,079 --> 01:09:57,720 how insanely confident he is, which which I'm a fan of. 1521 01:09:58,199 --> 01:10:00,840 Uh So, he's someone I think if you're trying to 1522 01:10:00,840 --> 01:10:03,439 pick out like a riser, I think he's probably the guy. 1523 01:10:04,359 --> 01:10:13,520 I I so Alex Sar He's he's a good shot 1524 01:10:13,560 --> 01:10:18,439 blocker and can get a rebound, but man, he's bad 1525 01:10:18,479 --> 01:10:21,199 at everything. So does it matter that he really does 1526 01:10:21,199 --> 01:10:23,520 look like someone that can block shots, and that's about it. 1527 01:10:23,560 --> 01:10:25,119 Like that that's not enough to get on our first 1528 01:10:25,159 --> 01:10:27,520 or second teams. But I felt like he's got at 1529 01:10:27,560 --> 01:10:30,960 least one thing he does really well for this class 1530 01:10:30,520 --> 01:10:35,039 at he's playing time, so's he's commanding, he's a big 1531 01:10:35,079 --> 01:10:38,119 factor in commanding the tank. He's like, I don't know 1532 01:10:38,159 --> 01:10:41,000 who the pilot and co pilot are, but Kyle Kuzma 1533 01:10:41,039 --> 01:10:42,439 would like to be heard from. But we're talking about 1534 01:10:42,520 --> 01:10:44,720 rookies here for the Wizards tank, and Sara has been 1535 01:10:44,720 --> 01:10:45,680 helpful in that regard. 1536 01:10:47,359 --> 01:10:50,560 Speaker 1: You want to take us through our MP ballots. 1537 01:10:50,479 --> 01:10:54,279 Speaker 2: Yes, I would also say you can reference the podcast 1538 01:10:54,359 --> 01:10:56,680 we did that went up earlier this week about a 1539 01:10:56,760 --> 01:11:00,600 very long discussion about guys adding new skills. So I 1540 01:11:00,680 --> 01:11:06,359 have Franz first, Jadab second, Mobile third, and so this 1541 01:11:06,439 --> 01:11:09,119 is probably a good point too, because it's like these 1542 01:11:09,439 --> 01:11:13,000 neither none of those three fit the conventional like and 1543 01:11:13,079 --> 01:11:14,840 yours really don't either when we get to them, other 1544 01:11:14,880 --> 01:11:17,920 than maybe one like most improved criteria, I guess because 1545 01:11:17,960 --> 01:11:20,680 it tends to be guys that I don't know, for 1546 01:11:21,199 --> 01:11:23,720 lack of a more precise definition, go from like nothing 1547 01:11:23,760 --> 01:11:27,239 to something like you're Tied Jeromes for example, or like 1548 01:11:27,479 --> 01:11:30,319 even a Peyton Pritchard that isn't really nothing to something. 1549 01:11:30,399 --> 01:11:32,640 But you know what I mean, I. 1550 01:11:32,560 --> 01:11:35,000 Speaker 1: Was gonna say, is that convention though, because if you 1551 01:11:35,000 --> 01:11:37,760 look at like like I guess Larry Marketing counts as 1552 01:11:37,760 --> 01:11:41,079 someone who came out of nowhere, Tyre MAXI didn't come 1553 01:11:41,119 --> 01:11:42,920 out of nowhere, though, it feels like there's an intro 1554 01:11:43,079 --> 01:11:45,039 distancy to the way the award is determined. 1555 01:11:45,079 --> 01:11:48,399 Speaker 2: Actually, yeah, so for this here's and we talked about 1556 01:11:48,439 --> 01:11:51,319 this a little bit, and we do every year. It's 1557 01:11:51,359 --> 01:11:53,119 like how it's kind of like how do you define 1558 01:11:53,199 --> 01:11:55,720 value in MVP? Like what does most improve mean? For me? 1559 01:11:56,399 --> 01:12:02,720 It's a leveling up, which either happens through sustaining a 1560 01:12:02,720 --> 01:12:07,800 certain level of permanent production in much harder circumstances. And 1561 01:12:07,840 --> 01:12:09,800 now often that means like a bigger role, like a 1562 01:12:09,880 --> 01:12:14,279 higher usage thing, and or adding a new skill that 1563 01:12:14,399 --> 01:12:19,479 like causes you to ascend from like whatever level you were. 1564 01:12:19,520 --> 01:12:22,000 You know, you're a rotation guy. Now you're a clear starter. 1565 01:12:22,119 --> 01:12:23,840 You're a starter. Now you're a star. You're a star. 1566 01:12:23,960 --> 01:12:27,039 Now you're an All NBA candidate or whatever, like, and 1567 01:12:27,119 --> 01:12:29,279 I think each wrung up that ladder you move sort 1568 01:12:29,279 --> 01:12:31,640 of matters more to me because it just gets harder 1569 01:12:31,680 --> 01:12:35,399 to sort of climb. So Franz's first to me for 1570 01:12:35,640 --> 01:12:38,199 a number of the reasons we discussed. It's just his 1571 01:12:38,319 --> 01:12:42,439 ability to add such a massive playmaking share, Like his 1572 01:12:42,479 --> 01:12:45,279 assist straight up over thirty percent, never over twenty percent 1573 01:12:45,319 --> 01:12:48,840 before turnover eight is bottoming out somehow, like it's lower 1574 01:12:48,840 --> 01:12:51,600 than it's ever been. Just the offensive load he's been 1575 01:12:51,640 --> 01:12:54,399 asked to carry. This is all just regurgitating what we 1576 01:12:54,439 --> 01:12:57,479 said when we discussed guys who have made leaps earlier 1577 01:12:57,479 --> 01:12:57,880 in the week. 1578 01:12:57,880 --> 01:13:00,600 Speaker 1: We went from it's not even he went from star 1579 01:13:00,800 --> 01:13:05,159 to MVP. He went from prospect to MVP camp. 1580 01:13:05,319 --> 01:13:08,119 Speaker 2: He went from like I think he's an okay second option, 1581 01:13:08,239 --> 01:13:13,439 but he's deeply flawed to Paolo Bankero to like he's 1582 01:13:13,800 --> 01:13:16,920 on our MVP ballots, Like that's that's in. That's a 1583 01:13:17,119 --> 01:13:20,000 huge leap, And I think that's slightly bigger than the 1584 01:13:20,079 --> 01:13:23,840 leap I have Jalen Williams making, because I think Williams 1585 01:13:24,279 --> 01:13:26,960 everybody thought he was better than Franz last year, right, Like, 1586 01:13:27,039 --> 01:13:30,239 so he's Jaylen Williams is also in an all second 1587 01:13:30,239 --> 01:13:32,239 team for me, I think you had him second team, 1588 01:13:32,239 --> 01:13:34,720 maybe third and made an All defensive team. For me, like, 1589 01:13:34,800 --> 01:13:38,359 that's just another level. And him being able to play center, 1590 01:13:38,439 --> 01:13:40,800 I think is just if you want this the new skill, 1591 01:13:40,920 --> 01:13:43,840 that's it for him mobile We've talked about a little 1592 01:13:43,840 --> 01:13:46,840 bit too, just becoming a totally different type of offensive 1593 01:13:46,840 --> 01:13:50,640 player while sustaining his defensive impact. Is did it for me? 1594 01:13:51,720 --> 01:13:54,039 Speaker 1: I tend to gravitate more what you did, where it's 1595 01:13:54,119 --> 01:13:57,079 more of these established players who has I might have 1596 01:13:57,119 --> 01:13:59,359 a harder like the one year where Stephan one Unandi 1597 01:13:59,439 --> 01:14:01,520 his MVP and people wanted to make the case that 1598 01:14:01,560 --> 01:14:04,000 he also could have won Most Improved Player. I'll listen 1599 01:14:04,000 --> 01:14:06,680 to any case, and I have opened my mind too. 1600 01:14:06,760 --> 01:14:08,600 I do think a sophomore could win the award, but 1601 01:14:08,640 --> 01:14:10,600 there probably needs to be a uniformity in the way 1602 01:14:10,600 --> 01:14:13,279 you're viewing it, at least in that year, to where 1603 01:14:13,600 --> 01:14:16,199 if you're gonna say it's tied Jerome, well then it's 1604 01:14:16,199 --> 01:14:17,760 like Will then Peyton Pritch are better be on your 1605 01:14:17,800 --> 01:14:19,800 list than too, as sort of these guys that either 1606 01:14:19,840 --> 01:14:22,359 took on bigger roles or came out of nowhere. I 1607 01:14:22,399 --> 01:14:25,319 think the players that we have have made harder leaps, 1608 01:14:25,319 --> 01:14:26,960 and so I have Fronz. We just went into that. 1609 01:14:27,319 --> 01:14:30,000 I have Norm Powell. That's like the guys who make 1610 01:14:30,079 --> 01:14:32,319 this is similar to Larry Market and except he's older, 1611 01:14:32,600 --> 01:14:35,439 where it's oh he's an established player. We thought we 1612 01:14:35,560 --> 01:14:37,640 knew what he was and I guess he's still kind 1613 01:14:37,680 --> 01:14:40,680 of doing the same things, except oh, he's shooting more 1614 01:14:40,720 --> 01:14:44,880 self created shots, getting down hillmore as a driver, and 1615 01:14:44,960 --> 01:14:47,520 his efficiency sustains and he's just scoring. He's over like 1616 01:14:47,560 --> 01:14:49,720 twenty he's not twenty three twenty four points a game 1617 01:14:50,199 --> 01:14:53,039 this year. That's huge. Like the Clippers offense isn't good, 1618 01:14:53,239 --> 01:14:55,920 how much worse would it be if Norman Powell didn't exist. 1619 01:14:55,840 --> 01:14:57,920 Speaker 2: And he's never been a second option, Like this is 1620 01:14:57,960 --> 01:15:01,119 a guy that you had had Paul George come back. 1621 01:15:01,680 --> 01:15:03,800 I think probably Norm Powell would have been our like 1622 01:15:03,920 --> 01:15:05,640 on the way up on the list of six man 1623 01:15:05,760 --> 01:15:08,079 for us, right like that that Like, so for him 1624 01:15:08,119 --> 01:15:11,119 to be a legit like one of the better second 1625 01:15:11,119 --> 01:15:12,960 option scores in the league now is just that, Like 1626 01:15:13,000 --> 01:15:14,119 that's just different. 1627 01:15:15,000 --> 01:15:17,119 Speaker 1: I have Cad at three. I think you could have 1628 01:15:17,119 --> 01:15:19,359 gone mobile here, and I think, look, if you want 1629 01:15:19,359 --> 01:15:21,520 to make the case for todd Errome, Grady Dick, Peyton 1630 01:15:21,560 --> 01:15:24,760 Pritchard also like they have cases. I'm not as much 1631 01:15:24,760 --> 01:15:28,000 into the I don't like kind of doing the I 1632 01:15:28,039 --> 01:15:29,920 guess this is taboo in our business, but I'm like 1633 01:15:29,960 --> 01:15:33,720 trying to anticipate with listeners or readers might think and like, yo, 1634 01:15:34,000 --> 01:15:35,840 why they might just cut our picks. I'm not a 1635 01:15:35,920 --> 01:15:38,560 huge fan of like the Jalen Johnson buzz. I know 1636 01:15:38,600 --> 01:15:41,800 that he's added some more signature passing, but he otherwise 1637 01:15:41,840 --> 01:15:44,439 feels a lot like the same player, Like he would 1638 01:15:44,479 --> 01:15:46,520 have won the award for me last year had he 1639 01:15:46,600 --> 01:15:48,680 qualified for a game. His leap was last year. 1640 01:15:48,720 --> 01:15:49,640 Speaker 2: His leap was last year. 1641 01:15:49,640 --> 01:15:52,760 Speaker 1: I feel like, yeah, but I have Kaid because the 1642 01:15:52,800 --> 01:15:55,840 efficiency on the threes is there. He's not getting to 1643 01:15:55,920 --> 01:15:57,760 the basket a lot, but over ninety percent of his 1644 01:15:57,800 --> 01:16:01,880 shots or unassisted. Once he gets there, he drives Detroit's offense. 1645 01:16:01,920 --> 01:16:05,199 And the bigger thing for me not is like he's 1646 01:16:05,239 --> 01:16:09,199 become to me a more active and better defender and 1647 01:16:09,279 --> 01:16:11,439 certainly a rebounder, and so to add that well, I 1648 01:16:11,439 --> 01:16:14,479 think incrementally improving on the offensive end given the level 1649 01:16:14,520 --> 01:16:16,800 that he's supposed to be at. I don't think that's 1650 01:16:16,840 --> 01:16:20,359 receiving nearly Like this is a player who is already 1651 01:16:20,399 --> 01:16:23,439 good and has now made improvement at both ends of 1652 01:16:23,479 --> 01:16:25,560 the floor, and that's a really big deal. 1653 01:16:26,000 --> 01:16:27,960 Speaker 2: I wonder too, if part of the case for him, 1654 01:16:28,119 --> 01:16:31,119 did you consider, Like it's kind of counterintuitive because we 1655 01:16:31,600 --> 01:16:34,840 tend to like celebrate guys like Franz as an example, 1656 01:16:34,880 --> 01:16:37,960 where it's like man degree of difficulty is high, right, 1657 01:16:38,039 --> 01:16:40,319 like the team around it, what he's doing is more 1658 01:16:40,359 --> 01:16:44,039 impressive because it's harder. But I think so for kid, 1659 01:16:44,439 --> 01:16:47,800 is doesn't the fact that like he's doing this and 1660 01:16:47,840 --> 01:16:50,840 making these incremental improvements in an environment that is now 1661 01:16:50,880 --> 01:16:54,000 like more successful, Like the Pistons are playing like they're better, 1662 01:16:54,199 --> 01:16:58,239 They're not getting like totally overlooked by every opponent every 1663 01:16:58,319 --> 01:17:00,399 night like they have been basically for his whole career. 1664 01:17:00,439 --> 01:17:03,239 Like did that factor in Where it's like I think 1665 01:17:03,319 --> 01:17:05,880 you could argue that he's like driving the success to 1666 01:17:05,920 --> 01:17:08,960 a large extent, but like it sort of matters more 1667 01:17:09,439 --> 01:17:11,279 kind of the same way we view like what someone 1668 01:17:11,319 --> 01:17:14,479 does in the playoffs is more valuable than regular season, 1669 01:17:14,560 --> 01:17:17,279 Like he's actually getting like real opponents. 1670 01:17:17,319 --> 01:17:20,319 Speaker 1: Now, Yeah, I think that matters. It's also because I 1671 01:17:20,399 --> 01:17:23,520 think if the Pistons were the Pistons, if the Pistons, 1672 01:17:23,760 --> 01:17:26,880 if the Pistons were pissing all over the place. But like, 1673 01:17:26,960 --> 01:17:28,680 look at all these players or any of them on 1674 01:17:28,760 --> 01:17:31,520 truly terrible teams right now. Kay Cunningham is on the 1675 01:17:31,560 --> 01:17:34,399 worst team. But like even Tyrese Maxie wins it last year, 1676 01:17:34,640 --> 01:17:36,600 not on a bad team. The year that Larry Market 1677 01:17:36,600 --> 01:17:38,560 didn't won it the Jazz, weren't they mean they had 1678 01:17:38,600 --> 01:17:40,600 like their mid season tank job that year. I think 1679 01:17:40,640 --> 01:17:43,880 I can't remember actually, So yeah, I mean I think 1680 01:17:43,880 --> 01:17:46,079 that definitely has to matter. There were there any other 1681 01:17:46,119 --> 01:17:47,239 I mean, there were a bunch of other names that 1682 01:17:47,239 --> 01:17:49,039 I would point to. We went through like twenty five 1683 01:17:49,079 --> 01:17:51,960 players that we think qualifies most improved players. So go 1684 01:17:52,199 --> 01:17:56,399 watch that episode, listen to that podcast, YouTube podcast description, 1685 01:17:56,520 --> 01:17:59,199 and subscribe while you're there. Any other names, Actually, I 1686 01:17:59,199 --> 01:18:00,880 want to ask you about one specifically, because I do 1687 01:18:00,920 --> 01:18:03,000 think there's going to be a ground swell for this player. 1688 01:18:03,239 --> 01:18:04,600 What do you make of the Wemby case? 1689 01:18:05,479 --> 01:18:07,439 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you can make it on the strength 1690 01:18:07,479 --> 01:18:10,079 of like what he's doing. It's kind of a little 1691 01:18:10,079 --> 01:18:12,479 bit like for kid, It's like, well, now it's like 1692 01:18:12,920 --> 01:18:15,640 in a winning environment, certainly like to a larger extent 1693 01:18:15,680 --> 01:18:18,039 than it had been last year. The new skill is 1694 01:18:18,079 --> 01:18:21,199 the three point volume. Like I think maybe your mileage 1695 01:18:21,199 --> 01:18:23,319 will vary on that, whether depending on like whether you 1696 01:18:23,319 --> 01:18:25,199 think that's a good thing for him to be doing. 1697 01:18:25,279 --> 01:18:27,880 I think, like I'm I'm a very I'm very much 1698 01:18:27,920 --> 01:18:29,960 of the like, please explore the space, like if if 1699 01:18:30,000 --> 01:18:31,840 it turns out that you're a high volume three point 1700 01:18:31,840 --> 01:18:34,119 shooter on offense and that's what you do and cool 1701 01:18:34,439 --> 01:18:38,279 to keep like chuck them, that's fine. I think, like, 1702 01:18:38,359 --> 01:18:40,560 is there anything beyond the three point volume and just 1703 01:18:40,640 --> 01:18:44,520 like the continued improvement defensively to like make the most 1704 01:18:44,560 --> 01:18:46,960 improved case for him. Not saying I disagree, I just 1705 01:18:47,039 --> 01:18:49,279 like that's that's the argument, right, I don't. 1706 01:18:49,640 --> 01:18:51,279 Speaker 1: I really don't think there is. I don't know if 1707 01:18:51,319 --> 01:18:54,520 the passing has gotten marketedly better or at least not 1708 01:18:54,680 --> 01:18:58,359 enough his case. Sophomores are so tough, man, especially when 1709 01:18:58,359 --> 01:18:59,880 you're talking about because we went through this with j 1710 01:19:00,079 --> 01:19:04,039 dub last year, Wemby won Rookie of the Year and 1711 01:19:04,119 --> 01:19:06,439 like to be now he's on an All NBA team, 1712 01:19:06,760 --> 01:19:08,800 Like you could say that second year players are supposed 1713 01:19:08,840 --> 01:19:11,199 to improve, but that's not that's not an easy thing 1714 01:19:11,239 --> 01:19:16,479 to do. Did I lose your first second? Yeah? 1715 01:19:17,039 --> 01:19:19,359 Speaker 2: First second notes it's I agree, it's not an easy 1716 01:19:19,399 --> 01:19:22,399 thing to do. And I think for Wenby, like his 1717 01:19:22,479 --> 01:19:25,079 second half was way better than his first half last year, 1718 01:19:25,159 --> 01:19:27,159 So I think maybe now I didn't have the three 1719 01:19:27,199 --> 01:19:28,960 point volume, but I think you could make a little 1720 01:19:28,960 --> 01:19:30,800 bit of the Jalen Johnson case to where like the 1721 01:19:30,840 --> 01:19:34,479 improvement sort of and now that's has sort of already happened. 1722 01:19:34,520 --> 01:19:36,199 That feels kind of stupid to say, because I think 1723 01:19:36,319 --> 01:19:39,039 he's just going to trend up for like seven more years, 1724 01:19:39,119 --> 01:19:42,279 so the improvement will be ongoing. But I take your 1725 01:19:42,319 --> 01:19:45,000 point there. What about like like Ti Jerome is the 1726 01:19:45,039 --> 01:19:47,159 name we've mentioned several times, and he very much went 1727 01:19:47,199 --> 01:19:51,680 from he's the nothing to something Canada right like if 1728 01:19:52,520 --> 01:19:56,159 the bigger role, Yeah, bigger role just shooting a shit 1729 01:19:56,239 --> 01:20:00,640 ton more. But like for Jerome, do you hold are 1730 01:20:00,640 --> 01:20:02,399 we holding it against him that? Like I think of 1731 01:20:02,479 --> 01:20:04,560 a lot of these guys, he's the one that's just 1732 01:20:04,640 --> 01:20:08,359 like you can brush off as unsustainable shooting, Like is 1733 01:20:08,399 --> 01:20:10,359 that is that part? Is that hurting him here? 1734 01:20:11,560 --> 01:20:13,000 Speaker 1: Yeah? I think I think if we were trying to 1735 01:20:13,000 --> 01:20:15,039 make yes, because whether we're picking it right now or 1736 01:20:15,039 --> 01:20:17,760 trying to project forward, there is when you do look 1737 01:20:17,760 --> 01:20:19,960 at this though, and I think it's implicit to maybe 1738 01:20:19,960 --> 01:20:23,239 where you're not consciously acknowledging it, you are thinking about 1739 01:20:23,279 --> 01:20:25,439 the sustainability of what you're watching. 1740 01:20:25,560 --> 01:20:27,199 Speaker 2: I hate that though, because if we're not supposed to. 1741 01:20:27,199 --> 01:20:30,079 Speaker 1: Be because like Jalen Green would win it every March, 1742 01:20:34,119 --> 01:20:37,880 so any long lit like, I just don't know. I think, look, 1743 01:20:37,920 --> 01:20:40,319 if you want to pick the Jeromes, I think that's fine. 1744 01:20:40,399 --> 01:20:42,520 It's just this could be a fundamental difference of how 1745 01:20:42,560 --> 01:20:44,760 you treat the award. And a lot of this stuff's 1746 01:20:44,760 --> 01:20:48,640 open for interpretation. None of it is just purely fact based. 1747 01:20:48,640 --> 01:20:51,720 And look we have hint in here or hind m 1748 01:20:51,720 --> 01:20:53,920 ipjal On Johnson. I can't get his case was last 1749 01:20:54,000 --> 01:20:56,159 year and I think he's a better passer this year 1750 01:20:56,239 --> 01:20:58,399 and he's made it like enough improvements and if yes, 1751 01:20:58,479 --> 01:21:00,600 he's gonna be on our long ballot. Yes he's mentioned, 1752 01:21:00,680 --> 01:21:03,439 so is we have Jay and Ivy on here. Christian 1753 01:21:03,439 --> 01:21:06,319 Brown's another interesting name. I think he's the one some 1754 01:21:06,359 --> 01:21:09,239 people like might be the most the one that kind 1755 01:21:09,239 --> 01:21:11,680 of bridges the gap most like the ven diagram of 1756 01:21:12,079 --> 01:21:14,720 people who want the smaller roller out of nowhere guys 1757 01:21:14,960 --> 01:21:16,640 and then the more established guys, and he kind of 1758 01:21:16,640 --> 01:21:20,239 bridges that that gap. I just he hasn't improved enough 1759 01:21:20,600 --> 01:21:22,880 in the one area that I think the Nuggets desperately 1760 01:21:22,920 --> 01:21:24,720 need improve it from. And that's three point volume. 1761 01:21:25,000 --> 01:21:26,439 Speaker 2: That's his percentage is up. 1762 01:21:27,119 --> 01:21:29,600 Speaker 1: Great, his ball handling's up to The Nuggets don't fucking 1763 01:21:29,680 --> 01:21:31,680 need any of that because he's not flowing those minutes 1764 01:21:31,680 --> 01:21:34,880 without nikol Jokic on the court. Look, but he belongs. 1765 01:21:34,880 --> 01:21:36,800 So there's like any other names that you would throw 1766 01:21:36,840 --> 01:21:37,439 out there. 1767 01:21:37,600 --> 01:21:39,800 Speaker 2: Uh, Jay and Ivy was one we talked about just 1768 01:21:39,880 --> 01:21:43,520 the the off ball shooting has been better. I'm trying 1769 01:21:43,520 --> 01:21:46,520 to think, uh tru J and Ivy, Oh, I mean 1770 01:21:46,640 --> 01:21:49,279 r J Barrett. The passing growth is is a massive 1771 01:21:49,319 --> 01:21:50,680 like new skillslopment. 1772 01:21:50,760 --> 01:21:52,359 Speaker 1: Let's just let's keep naming raptors. 1773 01:21:52,560 --> 01:21:55,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, Bojie, Grady Dick, there's your second year guy. But yeah, 1774 01:21:55,840 --> 01:21:58,199 let's go down the raptors list. I think that's pretty 1775 01:21:58,760 --> 01:22:01,119 that's fairly exhaustive there. The winby thing, as I was, 1776 01:22:01,199 --> 01:22:03,359 as you were talking, so after the break last year, 1777 01:22:03,359 --> 01:22:05,479 he was averaging like twenty three, twelve and five on 1778 01:22:05,520 --> 01:22:08,000 shooting splits that are basically what he's doing this season. 1779 01:22:08,079 --> 01:22:12,720 So like he's another guy that like the unless you're 1780 01:22:12,760 --> 01:22:14,920 just enamored of, like, oh my god, look how many 1781 01:22:15,000 --> 01:22:18,399 threes he's shooting. Like offensively, he's had you know, the 1782 01:22:18,760 --> 01:22:21,640 the and the box box score production wise, like kind 1783 01:22:21,640 --> 01:22:22,640 of did this last year. 1784 01:22:23,840 --> 01:22:26,239 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a good point too. I'm trying to think 1785 01:22:26,239 --> 01:22:28,720 there's any other candidates if if you're listening to this 1786 01:22:28,760 --> 01:22:31,319 and want to, I guess Tyler Hero kind of as 1787 01:22:31,359 --> 01:22:35,119 a cursory mentioned just because he has really reinvented his 1788 01:22:35,199 --> 01:22:37,760 offensive profile, which is a big but that doesn't really 1789 01:22:37,760 --> 01:22:39,800 fit the spirit of this discussion. 1790 01:22:40,239 --> 01:22:46,640 Speaker 2: Bill All would have been Shrewder is a good one. Kolbally, 1791 01:22:46,880 --> 01:22:48,840 like I mentioned, just on the ball a little bit 1792 01:22:48,840 --> 01:22:52,000 more should be on it, way more. I mean, Jordan 1793 01:22:52,039 --> 01:22:54,800 Poole is like a productive offensive player right now. 1794 01:22:55,399 --> 01:22:55,720 Speaker 1: I think I. 1795 01:22:57,720 --> 01:22:59,880 Speaker 2: Really think Corey Kispert's off ball movements improved. 1796 01:23:01,880 --> 01:23:03,720 Speaker 1: So I think six Man of the Year's mine, right, 1797 01:23:04,239 --> 01:23:07,840 So I have Peyton Pritchard at one AM and Thompson 1798 01:23:07,840 --> 01:23:12,079 at two and Nikil Alexander Walker at three our ballots 1799 01:23:12,079 --> 01:23:13,640 do include two of the same players, So do you 1800 01:23:13,640 --> 01:23:15,159 just want to give your ballot really quickly? 1801 01:23:15,520 --> 01:23:19,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, I've got Pritchard one, Scotti Pittman Junior two, and 1802 01:23:19,039 --> 01:23:22,880 I'm and Thompson three. Pritchard was easy, Like, I felt 1803 01:23:22,880 --> 01:23:25,600 real good about Pritchard at one, just because of the 1804 01:23:25,600 --> 01:23:29,600 three point volume and accuracy and just the the fi 1805 01:23:29,840 --> 01:23:30,760 or second man thing. 1806 01:23:31,279 --> 01:23:33,720 Speaker 1: Right, the only argument against him would be, I think 1807 01:23:33,760 --> 01:23:36,039 that's some of these or a lot of these players. 1808 01:23:36,279 --> 01:23:38,439 And I've definitely thought about it this way in the past. 1809 01:23:38,479 --> 01:23:41,880 Where is there a sixth man that's going to close 1810 01:23:42,119 --> 01:23:44,600 for their team? And with Boston at full strength, Peyton 1811 01:23:44,640 --> 01:23:47,199 Pritchard has no shot in hell of closing. But that's 1812 01:23:47,239 --> 01:23:49,239 not an indictment of Peyton Pritchard. 1813 01:23:49,520 --> 01:23:52,560 Speaker 2: I mean by that logic, I'm ready to start making 1814 01:23:52,600 --> 01:23:55,159 the case that Thompson should just start and finished games 1815 01:23:55,600 --> 01:23:57,960 every night for the Rockets, Like if that's really it, 1816 01:23:58,039 --> 01:24:00,439 like six man some Yeah, to your point, six man 1817 01:24:00,479 --> 01:24:03,279 is a lot of times like who's actually a starter though, 1818 01:24:03,600 --> 01:24:05,840 you know, like and I think Thompson kind of fits 1819 01:24:05,840 --> 01:24:08,199 that bill better than anybody else. But I got Pippin 1820 01:24:08,600 --> 01:24:12,119 Junior at two, which pains me because you have one 1821 01:24:12,119 --> 01:24:13,439 of my one of my all time faves. 1822 01:24:13,479 --> 01:24:16,000 Speaker 1: You got gnaw, Yeah, why am I riding for your 1823 01:24:16,039 --> 01:24:18,119 guys more than you? With the exception of j dub 1824 01:24:18,119 --> 01:24:20,600 in this you were anti Draymond, Now you're anti Nikhil, 1825 01:24:20,600 --> 01:24:22,840 Alexander Walker or is everything. I'll ride at home. 1826 01:24:23,039 --> 01:24:25,560 Speaker 2: It's part of my It's been a long long con 1827 01:24:25,760 --> 01:24:29,000 to just incept like all my favorite players into your brain, 1828 01:24:29,039 --> 01:24:33,279 and you've really sorry. You've fallen for it. So pretty 1829 01:24:33,279 --> 01:24:35,640 soon I won't have to have takes because you'll just 1830 01:24:35,640 --> 01:24:36,800 be the one offering them. 1831 01:24:36,880 --> 01:24:42,359 Speaker 1: Odds is my Coach of the Year pick. I'll make 1832 01:24:42,399 --> 01:24:45,279 the knockades the knock caase is he's one of the 1833 01:24:45,319 --> 01:24:48,239 most efficient shooters in basketball this year off the catch. 1834 01:24:48,439 --> 01:24:50,279 He has like an effective field goal rate of seventy 1835 01:24:50,600 --> 01:24:53,560 on catching shoe jumpers, and he can do some stuff. 1836 01:24:53,560 --> 01:24:55,560 They've had to put him in point guard spots at times. 1837 01:24:55,560 --> 01:24:57,680 I haven't loved it. He can still get going downhill 1838 01:24:57,720 --> 01:24:59,760 and he's still we didn't mention him, but like if 1839 01:24:59,760 --> 01:25:01,880 we were making an even longer list, like he's still 1840 01:25:02,279 --> 01:25:04,279 up there with all defense and I think that you 1841 01:25:04,319 --> 01:25:07,479 can well, I don't think I believe this is a fact, 1842 01:25:07,520 --> 01:25:09,800 which is why I'm saying it. He has been thrown 1843 01:25:09,840 --> 01:25:12,880 the contracts out the window. More valuable to the Minnesota 1844 01:25:12,880 --> 01:25:15,920 Timberwolves this year than Jade McDaniels. That is a problem, 1845 01:25:15,960 --> 01:25:18,000 but it's also fucking cool if you're an a kill 1846 01:25:18,000 --> 01:25:21,880 Alexander Walker fan, so and him and Thompson, by the way, 1847 01:25:22,079 --> 01:25:24,920 they don't have like the maybe even Scotti Pippen junior, 1848 01:25:24,960 --> 01:25:28,039 they don't really have like the typical sixth man because 1849 01:25:28,079 --> 01:25:30,960 I'm in Thompson for me is just rooted and he's 1850 01:25:31,000 --> 01:25:33,920 a defensive predator as you call him, and yeah he 1851 01:25:33,920 --> 01:25:35,760 can do like there's stuff he'll do. He's a nuclear 1852 01:25:35,800 --> 01:25:39,239 athlete on offense and with not even he's not you know, 1853 01:25:39,279 --> 01:25:42,199 that usual scorer you would see in this slot like 1854 01:25:42,239 --> 01:25:45,199 Peyton Pritchard comes closest to meetiamat criteria because he's averaging 1855 01:25:45,479 --> 01:25:49,000 a trillion points per thirty six minutes. But I think 1856 01:25:49,039 --> 01:25:51,119 we've evolved from the point of it does doesn't have 1857 01:25:51,159 --> 01:25:53,359 to be the bench guy who scores the mostion if 1858 01:25:53,359 --> 01:25:54,720 you if you want to do a better job of 1859 01:25:54,720 --> 01:25:56,159 like so, I think if you look at Amen Thompson 1860 01:25:56,159 --> 01:25:58,960 as an example, do you think he does a good 1861 01:25:59,039 --> 01:26:01,600 enough job blending both lines. That would be a discussion 1862 01:26:01,600 --> 01:26:04,479 to have. I think, nah, certainly does. But I've kind 1863 01:26:04,479 --> 01:26:06,920 of moved past I think in years. Definitely not recently, 1864 01:26:06,960 --> 01:26:10,279 but like a half decades hour ago, I found myself 1865 01:26:10,319 --> 01:26:14,800 like being magnetically pulled to the Jordan Clarkson types Lou 1866 01:26:14,840 --> 01:26:15,640 Williams types. 1867 01:26:16,439 --> 01:26:19,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's kind of unavoidable. I just I mean, that's 1868 01:26:19,760 --> 01:26:21,680 really the Pritchard case a little bit like who points, 1869 01:26:21,840 --> 01:26:23,960 you know, but it's not it's not the Lou Williams points. 1870 01:26:23,960 --> 01:26:26,119 These are different points that Pritchard's scoring. 1871 01:26:26,159 --> 01:26:28,560 Speaker 1: You getting off the ball so quickly like Mortivic Johnts 1872 01:26:28,600 --> 01:26:30,840 are coming with like fewer than two seconds of touch time. 1873 01:26:30,880 --> 01:26:31,560 It's crazy. 1874 01:26:31,840 --> 01:26:36,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, so uh, I think I think Pippen obviously fails though, 1875 01:26:36,600 --> 01:26:39,439 Like is he actually a starter test just for the 1876 01:26:39,479 --> 01:26:41,760 Grizzlies specifically? I think he probably couldn't. 1877 01:26:42,319 --> 01:26:45,439 Speaker 1: He has needed to start. Does that well? 1878 01:26:45,479 --> 01:26:48,880 Speaker 2: Again, that's also another like if we're trying to be predictive, 1879 01:26:49,000 --> 01:26:51,439 like that's a sneaky bonus if you rather, like you know, 1880 01:26:51,920 --> 01:26:54,640 Bogan Bogdanovitch for example, like would rack up enough start 1881 01:26:54,640 --> 01:26:56,279 And it's just a very good bench player who will 1882 01:26:56,319 --> 01:26:59,560 be on long lists, I'm sure. But Pippin the case 1883 01:26:59,560 --> 01:27:02,960 for him is just like he is a phenomenal driver 1884 01:27:03,039 --> 01:27:05,800 of the basketball on offense, getting almost ten drives a 1885 01:27:05,840 --> 01:27:08,640 game in like twenty three minutes a game that's hard 1886 01:27:08,680 --> 01:27:12,720 to do. Good passer, good distributor really good on ball defender, 1887 01:27:13,199 --> 01:27:15,439 just good enough of a shooter. I think. I don't 1888 01:27:15,479 --> 01:27:17,800 know if you like feel great if he's your starting 1889 01:27:17,800 --> 01:27:20,720 point guard, but I do think he is better than 1890 01:27:20,760 --> 01:27:24,039 some guys that teams are starting, and so for the Grizzlies, 1891 01:27:24,079 --> 01:27:26,720 I think his ability to it's a little bit like 1892 01:27:26,760 --> 01:27:29,760 a Tias Jones thing where it's like, that's nice if 1893 01:27:29,800 --> 01:27:32,640 you've got that guy as either your your second stringer 1894 01:27:33,600 --> 01:27:36,000 or the guy you need coming in to start when 1895 01:27:36,279 --> 01:27:38,439 you know John Morant missus timer is hurt so. 1896 01:27:39,720 --> 01:27:42,520 Speaker 1: Exceptional passer by the way, Like that is that the 1897 01:27:42,560 --> 01:27:45,760 most at this point atypical six manut of year case 1898 01:27:45,800 --> 01:27:48,199 to where it's if you don't go with the score, it's, well, 1899 01:27:48,199 --> 01:27:51,039 look at how great this guy is on defense, because 1900 01:27:51,560 --> 01:27:54,199 seldom is it. Well look at like this game manager, playmaker. 1901 01:27:55,399 --> 01:27:58,119 Speaker 2: Well, it's like Tias Jones had some Tias Jones must 1902 01:27:58,119 --> 01:28:00,479 have had some pretty high finishes in six man I can't. Yeah, 1903 01:28:00,520 --> 01:28:03,359 that's a good point, but yeah he's not. He's not 1904 01:28:03,399 --> 01:28:06,239 Tist Jones because Scottie Pipman will get into you defensively. 1905 01:28:06,319 --> 01:28:09,880 So yeah, I like him there. I don't know how 1906 01:28:09,920 --> 01:28:13,000 I feel about his like staying power, because. 1907 01:28:12,760 --> 01:28:15,880 Speaker 1: I think Ridley's well, honestly, they're never going to be 1908 01:28:15,960 --> 01:28:18,520 healthy at this point, so just I mean, like, I 1909 01:28:18,520 --> 01:28:21,520 think Thompson is gonna be first or second on my ballot. 1910 01:28:21,520 --> 01:28:24,000 Speaker 2: Assuming he doesn't, I mean, he might not have staying power. 1911 01:28:24,039 --> 01:28:26,920 Speaker 1: He might start too much the two names, and we 1912 01:28:26,920 --> 01:28:28,920 can get in some other tough cuts that I'll be modering, 1913 01:28:28,960 --> 01:28:30,199 and actually we have. One of them was mentioned in 1914 01:28:30,239 --> 01:28:33,840 the chat. Douce McBride has been fantastic. I think, look, 1915 01:28:34,520 --> 01:28:36,279 there have been games where I think that he should 1916 01:28:36,279 --> 01:28:38,720 be closing over Michal Bridges, not so not so much lately, 1917 01:28:39,119 --> 01:28:41,279 but he's been great for them, like someone who was 1918 01:28:41,319 --> 01:28:43,640 plugging play on offense and defends his butt off the 1919 01:28:43,720 --> 01:28:45,960 other one. And I think this is the award more 1920 01:28:46,000 --> 01:28:48,760 so than most improved player for him. I just if 1921 01:28:48,800 --> 01:28:52,279 you're under twenty minutes per game, it's really tough Ti Jerome, 1922 01:28:52,520 --> 01:28:54,479 like this would be the tie Jerome spot and I 1923 01:28:54,479 --> 01:28:57,239 could see him just like if this shooting even comes 1924 01:28:57,239 --> 01:29:00,880 close to sustaining, I might just have to pick him 1925 01:29:00,880 --> 01:29:02,720 for at least number two. Mm hmm. 1926 01:29:03,279 --> 01:29:05,920 Speaker 2: I wonder if and Karris LeVert on his own team 1927 01:29:05,960 --> 01:29:08,079 as somebody else, we should probably mention just that shot 1928 01:29:08,119 --> 01:29:10,239 the ball. Great, he's much. 1929 01:29:10,039 --> 01:29:12,199 Speaker 1: More and well again for this is the year two 1930 01:29:12,279 --> 01:29:13,319 or three of him just oh. 1931 01:29:13,239 --> 01:29:17,239 Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, he he has the more conventional like Jordan 1932 01:29:17,319 --> 01:29:20,079 Clarkson like reputation. I guess that you want in your 1933 01:29:20,119 --> 01:29:22,600 six men. Buddy Healed was there for a minute and 1934 01:29:22,680 --> 01:29:25,199 is not anymore. Like if we've done this two weeks ago, 1935 01:29:25,359 --> 01:29:27,319 I might have had Buddy Heald like first or second, 1936 01:29:28,199 --> 01:29:30,479 but he just hasn't made shots. And that's if your 1937 01:29:30,520 --> 01:29:33,279 buddy Healed and you're not making shots, you're not super helpful. 1938 01:29:34,520 --> 01:29:36,960 Speaker 1: Do you think at some point too, like DeAndre Hunter 1939 01:29:37,399 --> 01:29:38,720 might need to be slotted in here? 1940 01:29:39,119 --> 01:29:41,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean he's been man. He was good against 1941 01:29:41,680 --> 01:29:44,880 the Lakers and has just been really made me think 1942 01:29:45,000 --> 01:29:47,039 like has it just been that he couldn't get healthy 1943 01:29:47,399 --> 01:29:51,159 like just for years on end? Basically because I think, 1944 01:29:51,199 --> 01:29:52,960 I mean, we're looking at how he's playing now, it's 1945 01:29:52,960 --> 01:29:55,760 hard to imagine how he wasn't regarded more highly. I mean, 1946 01:29:56,239 --> 01:29:58,399 the Hawks could pay him a fair amount, like when 1947 01:29:58,600 --> 01:30:00,359 what he's getting actually counted as a lot. 1948 01:30:00,880 --> 01:30:04,119 Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't, I don't know necessarily explainer, but if 1949 01:30:04,159 --> 01:30:05,760 he had more than I think, what is he had 1950 01:30:05,760 --> 01:30:07,640 three hundred and sixty five minutes for the season, like 1951 01:30:08,119 --> 01:30:10,079 he like, that's like those are all guys I think 1952 01:30:10,079 --> 01:30:13,119 cold just outright this award. I guess Peyton Pritchrick has 1953 01:30:13,119 --> 01:30:15,760 it on lock, but it still feels very much debatable 1954 01:30:15,760 --> 01:30:16,520 for the rest of the year. 1955 01:30:16,920 --> 01:30:19,079 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I do think if it's not Thompson, 1956 01:30:19,479 --> 01:30:23,199 there's a I guess, like, yeah, I was gonna say 1957 01:30:23,199 --> 01:30:25,399 it could be another Rocket, but I don't. I don't 1958 01:30:25,439 --> 01:30:28,119 think like if you move Thompson in and Jalen Green, 1959 01:30:28,479 --> 01:30:30,640 actually Jalen talk about a guy who fits the six 1960 01:30:30,720 --> 01:30:33,279 man mold, Like if Jalen Green were coming in and 1961 01:30:33,319 --> 01:30:35,000 just chucking, that would make a lot of sense. 1962 01:30:35,319 --> 01:30:35,399 Speaker 1: Uh. 1963 01:30:35,600 --> 01:30:37,560 Speaker 2: Heine says Jay Huff is the most entertaining six man 1964 01:30:37,640 --> 01:30:41,880 a year. Like let's just start naming grizzlies. Yeah, let's 1965 01:30:41,880 --> 01:30:44,279 just go all with Grizzlies. Gig Jackson hasn't played yet. 1966 01:30:44,279 --> 01:30:48,800 I'd like to nominate in the reserve. The best thing 1967 01:30:48,840 --> 01:30:51,319 about Jay Huff. I know this has been discussed, but like, 1968 01:30:52,359 --> 01:30:55,119 if Jay Huff is on a top ten plays list, 1969 01:30:55,199 --> 01:30:57,439 like if you're watching League Pass and in the commercial breaks, 1970 01:30:57,479 --> 01:31:00,600 I'll have the top ten plays, He's guaranteed he the 1971 01:31:00,640 --> 01:31:03,279 highlight is guaranteed to be a reverse dunk. Like I 1972 01:31:03,439 --> 01:31:08,399 just I'm so enthralled that like he like unnecessarily, he 1973 01:31:08,600 --> 01:31:11,439 just prefers to dunk facing the other way, and I'm 1974 01:31:11,479 --> 01:31:13,439 I'm a fan of it. I just enjoy that about 1975 01:31:13,439 --> 01:31:13,840 his game. 1976 01:31:14,560 --> 01:31:16,399 Speaker 1: Anybody else you think deserves a call out for this 1977 01:31:16,439 --> 01:31:19,079 before we move on, Uh, let's see. 1978 01:31:19,159 --> 01:31:20,760 Speaker 2: I mean, if Al Horford goes back to the bench, 1979 01:31:20,840 --> 01:31:25,000 let's nominate him once Portzing gets back. I don't know. 1980 01:31:25,159 --> 01:31:27,720 I feel like we're forgetting somebody from our most improved 1981 01:31:27,720 --> 01:31:31,159 discussion who kind of had some overlap. But no, I 1982 01:31:31,159 --> 01:31:32,520 don't think so. I think we can move on. 1983 01:31:33,520 --> 01:31:35,800 Speaker 1: That would bring us to Coach of the Year. This 1984 01:31:35,880 --> 01:31:38,000 is always the toughest one for me because these dudes 1985 01:31:38,039 --> 01:31:40,720 have forgotten more about basketball than I'll ever know. In 1986 01:31:40,760 --> 01:31:44,039 the past ten seconds. And obviously I feel comfortable picking 1987 01:31:44,479 --> 01:31:48,000 MVP awards because I'm smarter at basketball than Nicole Jokic 1988 01:31:48,279 --> 01:31:50,760 and Tatum and Sga, et cetera. So that's I don't 1989 01:31:50,800 --> 01:31:52,800 I don't worry about picking those even a little bit. No, 1990 01:31:53,199 --> 01:31:55,840 but who's your Coach of the Year ballot? What's on? 1991 01:31:56,840 --> 01:31:59,960 Speaker 2: I feel like I haven't like gone away from this 1992 01:32:00,199 --> 01:32:03,640 enough after the fifteen and oh start, But I still 1993 01:32:03,680 --> 01:32:07,640 think I got Kenny Atkinson one. I think there's a 1994 01:32:07,680 --> 01:32:10,800 lot to be said for taking essentially the same team 1995 01:32:10,840 --> 01:32:14,680 and just making it better by changing how it plays. Now. 1996 01:32:14,800 --> 01:32:17,439 The counter is Cleveland just hasn't missed a shot all year, 1997 01:32:17,479 --> 01:32:21,000 and like, does that is that attributable to Atkinson? No? 1998 01:32:21,920 --> 01:32:25,600 But I think making the right like Macro calls on, 1999 01:32:25,960 --> 01:32:29,279 here's how Evan Mobley should play, Here's how we can 2000 01:32:29,399 --> 01:32:32,000 make Darius Garland and Donovan Mitchell not feel like a 2001 01:32:32,039 --> 01:32:35,880 your turn, my turn operation, Like this was a thorny 2002 01:32:36,399 --> 01:32:40,359 like situation to step into after the way last year ended. 2003 01:32:41,399 --> 01:32:44,439 And I just think, oh, like, the level of team 2004 01:32:44,479 --> 01:32:47,079 performance is super high, and I think a lot of 2005 01:32:47,119 --> 01:32:49,760 it owes to just like maybe it's not like a 2006 01:32:49,800 --> 01:32:52,960 lot of tweaks, but enough like high level things that 2007 01:32:53,000 --> 01:32:56,439 Atkinson can be credited for. I think I think he 2008 01:32:56,520 --> 01:32:58,960 has to be recognized there. I've got Jenkins two and 2009 01:32:59,039 --> 01:33:02,640 Joe Missoula three. I know you've got Jenkins won. So 2010 01:33:02,680 --> 01:33:05,520 what's maybe what's your case for Jenkins at the top. 2011 01:33:05,800 --> 01:33:07,439 You don't have to sell me because I got them too. 2012 01:33:08,000 --> 01:33:10,960 Speaker 1: The thing with Taylor Jenkins is if I was lost 2013 01:33:10,960 --> 01:33:13,800 in the wilderness, I feel like he could provide for me. 2014 01:33:14,439 --> 01:33:15,920 Just look at him. 2015 01:33:16,199 --> 01:33:20,039 Speaker 2: I think I think that's an unassailable argument of among 2016 01:33:20,159 --> 01:33:23,880 NBA coaches, who do you have more confidence in setting 2017 01:33:24,000 --> 01:33:28,039 up shelter in the woods and providing food for you? 2018 01:33:28,640 --> 01:33:30,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, and finding figure out a way to like fine 2019 01:33:31,000 --> 01:33:33,600 water or distell it down from his own urine or something. 2020 01:33:33,680 --> 01:33:36,119 Speaker 2: Yeah, I would say Joe Miszoula talks about the animal 2021 01:33:36,199 --> 01:33:39,239 kingdom way more though, So that's a fact. 2022 01:33:39,800 --> 01:33:42,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, I have Jenkins one. Just the Grizzlies rotation has 2023 01:33:42,640 --> 01:33:44,840 still been all over the place. Is normalizing a little 2024 01:33:44,840 --> 01:33:47,399 bit now, but like when you look at their most 2025 01:33:47,439 --> 01:33:50,560 played players, this is not ideal. And their top seven 2026 01:33:50,640 --> 01:33:55,159 in offense and defense, like that's just like I think 2027 01:33:55,199 --> 01:33:58,279 Coach the Year tends to go to the guy who's 2028 01:33:58,279 --> 01:34:02,119 steering the team that's the biggest or seeding expectations the most. 2029 01:34:02,439 --> 01:34:05,159 The Grizzlies are somehow both where it's they were this 2030 01:34:05,439 --> 01:34:08,159 we had high expectations and they were this known quantity 2031 01:34:08,439 --> 01:34:11,000 and they're even better by those metrics. You mentioned this 2032 01:34:11,039 --> 01:34:13,159 before we started recording, and I think it's important the 2033 01:34:13,199 --> 01:34:15,760 fact that he's done this, because we don't. They overhauled 2034 01:34:15,760 --> 01:34:17,760 his coaching staff over the summer, so he comes in 2035 01:34:17,800 --> 01:34:19,880 on the hot seat. We don't even know how much, say, 2036 01:34:19,920 --> 01:34:23,000 he had in building up his coaching staff, and so 2037 01:34:23,239 --> 01:34:25,880 then to like still, this is where the Grizzlies are 2038 01:34:25,960 --> 01:34:28,359 when you factor an injury like Jah Moran hasn't been available, 2039 01:34:28,439 --> 01:34:31,560 Marcus Martin hasn't been available, or even necessarily good. Jared 2040 01:34:31,640 --> 01:34:34,039 Jackson junior has been your most valuable player. You've had 2041 01:34:34,079 --> 01:34:36,920 to change all these different lineups. You're relying on rookies. 2042 01:34:36,920 --> 01:34:40,079 The Jalen Wells is like just guarding the other team's 2043 01:34:40,079 --> 01:34:42,119 best player. I think you have to give him a 2044 01:34:42,119 --> 01:34:44,800 ton of credit for that. The Atkinson case is strong, 2045 01:34:45,319 --> 01:34:47,640 Mizulla and dag Nault, so I have Diagnault two and 2046 01:34:47,720 --> 01:34:50,199 Kenny Atkinson three, and we'll get into this is a 2047 01:34:50,199 --> 01:34:51,880 long list. This is always the one that feels the 2048 01:34:51,880 --> 01:34:55,279 longest list. Deagnault Miszoula, I feel like you're kind of 2049 01:34:55,520 --> 01:34:57,800 head to heads, like who's the best coach in basketball? 2050 01:34:58,000 --> 01:34:58,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, right now? 2051 01:34:58,800 --> 01:35:01,319 Speaker 1: And so I look at Missoula kind of planning around 2052 01:35:01,359 --> 01:35:04,279 what the Celtics did without porzingis matters. I like what 2053 01:35:04,359 --> 01:35:06,600 Dagnault's done in the face of there was this chet 2054 01:35:06,600 --> 01:35:09,119 home Grid injury, and first there was isa A Hertenstein injury, 2055 01:35:09,399 --> 01:35:12,159 and yet they're still just gonna build this incredible defense anyway, 2056 01:35:12,239 --> 01:35:14,920 despite being undersized. You could say, well, look at the 2057 01:35:14,920 --> 01:35:18,199 personnel he has, but that goes for Missoula as well. 2058 01:35:18,199 --> 01:35:20,199 But there, I think they're in terms of the best 2059 01:35:20,239 --> 01:35:22,439 coach in basketball, which I view this as a single 2060 01:35:22,479 --> 01:35:25,680 season award where what tells the story or defines this 2061 01:35:25,840 --> 01:35:28,239 single season more. That's why I have Jenkins and Actings 2062 01:35:28,319 --> 01:35:31,520 in up there. Uh, But dag Nault Missoula are right 2063 01:35:31,560 --> 01:35:34,399 there for me too. They've both done fantastic jobs. And 2064 01:35:34,439 --> 01:35:37,439 I would echo everything you said about Atkinson for sure. 2065 01:35:37,439 --> 01:35:41,039 And also he's clearly responsible for ty Jerome right. Obviously 2066 01:35:41,039 --> 01:35:41,720 they found him. 2067 01:35:42,319 --> 01:35:44,880 Speaker 2: He told him to never miss a floater or a three. 2068 01:35:45,319 --> 01:35:47,920 Speaker 1: Cleveland was that Max strews either, by the way, it's so. 2069 01:35:49,079 --> 01:35:52,119 Speaker 2: I think the I don't have dagnault on here, and 2070 01:35:52,159 --> 01:35:53,079 it just like feels wrong. 2071 01:35:53,520 --> 01:35:54,600 Speaker 1: And it's just with Missoula. 2072 01:35:54,680 --> 01:35:57,439 Speaker 2: For me, it's so stupid that we just the coach 2073 01:35:57,439 --> 01:35:59,560 of the year thing is like we just if you 2074 01:35:59,640 --> 01:36:02,119 win it. I'm like, sorry, we're not gonna consider you 2075 01:36:02,159 --> 01:36:04,359 next year. Like it just back to back coach of 2076 01:36:04,359 --> 01:36:07,199 the year wins do not happen, like full stop. It's 2077 01:36:07,239 --> 01:36:09,399 just like never ever happens. And that's dumb because it's 2078 01:36:09,399 --> 01:36:12,279 not like Dagnaud is a worst coach this year and 2079 01:36:12,279 --> 01:36:15,119 then he won last year when he won it, and 2080 01:36:15,199 --> 01:36:19,119 so like and we also I think sometimes penalize a team, 2081 01:36:19,399 --> 01:36:21,119 like if you win, if you win a ton of 2082 01:36:21,159 --> 01:36:24,000 games after not winning a lot of games, that's gonna 2083 01:36:24,000 --> 01:36:26,000 help you. But then if you continue to win a 2084 01:36:26,000 --> 01:36:27,880 ton of games, we stop caring. It's kind of the 2085 01:36:27,920 --> 01:36:31,000 I'm making the same, like the same observation, just framed differently. 2086 01:36:31,800 --> 01:36:34,600 So yeah, like it just you know you and you 2087 01:36:34,640 --> 01:36:36,800 can go back to like now this isn't the year, 2088 01:36:36,800 --> 01:36:39,000 but like Eric Spolster just is always the guy that, 2089 01:36:39,159 --> 01:36:40,960 like other coaches pick as the best coach in the 2090 01:36:41,039 --> 01:36:44,640 league or the GMS, and it's just like he's won once. 2091 01:36:44,880 --> 01:36:47,720 I think, so this is Coach of the Year is 2092 01:36:47,760 --> 01:36:50,840 as fraud as like almost any award. Who's on who's 2093 01:36:50,880 --> 01:36:51,640 your toughest cut? 2094 01:36:51,720 --> 01:36:57,640 Speaker 1: I guess, well, Missoula and then Tyler just the Clippers 2095 01:36:57,680 --> 01:36:59,239 offense is bad, but I don't know what he's supposed 2096 01:36:59,279 --> 01:37:01,359 to do with it. They are they're dead last in 2097 01:37:01,399 --> 01:37:04,680 point score for possession after timeouts, which I feel like 2098 01:37:04,680 --> 01:37:06,479 he is supposed to be Tyler's bread and butter. So 2099 01:37:06,520 --> 01:37:08,760 that was a little bit of a differentiator for me. 2100 01:37:09,920 --> 01:37:12,680 But look, look at I know they have strong defensive 2101 01:37:12,680 --> 01:37:15,399 personnel in place, but they are battling in a Western 2102 01:37:15,399 --> 01:37:18,880 conference where they don't have their two of their three 2103 01:37:18,920 --> 01:37:21,439 most important players from last year, who in theory, are 2104 01:37:21,439 --> 01:37:24,520 still supposed to be two of their three most important players. 2105 01:37:24,640 --> 01:37:27,279 Paul George is gone, Kahi Leonard yet to play this season. 2106 01:37:27,479 --> 01:37:29,479 James Harden, he's starting to come alive a little bit, 2107 01:37:29,520 --> 01:37:30,920 and we'll still get to the foul line, like he 2108 01:37:31,000 --> 01:37:34,439 has not been even close to peak James Harden, and 2109 01:37:34,479 --> 01:37:37,079 yet Clipper's just sitting over five hundred contending for a 2110 01:37:37,079 --> 01:37:39,840 playoff spot in the West. Him and Missoula were my 2111 01:37:39,920 --> 01:37:40,920 toughest cuts. 2112 01:37:41,600 --> 01:37:44,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, lou was my toughest cut, actually, I guess in 2113 01:37:44,680 --> 01:37:48,359 a unofficial tie with I had Emmiodoka on my ballot 2114 01:37:48,359 --> 01:37:48,920 for a long time. 2115 01:37:49,239 --> 01:37:49,720 Speaker 1: Cut too. 2116 01:37:50,479 --> 01:37:55,239 Speaker 2: He's like I guess he fits into the like expectation 2117 01:37:55,399 --> 01:37:59,199 defying like category. I suppose because we didn't think the 2118 01:37:59,279 --> 01:38:01,880 Rockets were going to be this good and and like 2119 01:38:02,279 --> 01:38:04,520 we always like it more. I think in terms of 2120 01:38:04,560 --> 01:38:06,840 like apportioning credit to a coach if it's a defense 2121 01:38:07,159 --> 01:38:09,479 that really like because you always got the buy in 2122 01:38:09,600 --> 01:38:11,520 and always like you know that, that feels like more 2123 01:38:11,560 --> 01:38:16,720 of a coach thing. So Udoka was tough. Jordi Fernandez 2124 01:38:16,800 --> 01:38:18,560 is another, like the first. 2125 01:38:18,359 --> 01:38:21,520 Speaker 1: Of all the should fire him, Well, that's. 2126 01:38:21,399 --> 01:38:24,720 Speaker 2: The thing, like he should windows and get fired. He failed. 2127 01:38:24,760 --> 01:38:27,640 He does not understand the assignment. Like that's I mean, 2128 01:38:27,680 --> 01:38:30,560 maybe we underrate like how difficult that is to come 2129 01:38:30,560 --> 01:38:34,239 into a situation where like clearly the objective is to 2130 01:38:34,319 --> 01:38:38,680 lose and like, but also you're trying to establish a 2131 01:38:38,720 --> 01:38:42,239 culture and like not form bad habits and like somehow 2132 01:38:42,279 --> 01:38:45,079 toe the line. Now on like he has won too 2133 01:38:45,159 --> 01:38:48,119 much for for Brooklyn's purposes. I'm sure if you ask, 2134 01:38:48,279 --> 01:38:49,680 like what they actually really want to. 2135 01:38:49,680 --> 01:38:52,640 Speaker 1: Happen, But eighth in half court offense. 2136 01:38:53,079 --> 01:38:56,520 Speaker 2: With with what with Dennis Shrewder and Cam Thomas before 2137 01:38:56,560 --> 01:38:58,600 Cam Thomas got hurt, Like that's insane. 2138 01:38:59,000 --> 01:39:03,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think the move there is because you don't 2139 01:39:03,159 --> 01:39:07,479 coaches should never coach to lose. I would vehetdly disagree 2140 01:39:07,520 --> 01:39:10,399 if like with people who feel that way. That being said, 2141 01:39:10,760 --> 01:39:13,760 that might lend merit to like maybe make these trade 2142 01:39:13,800 --> 01:39:17,159 decisions earlier where it's Dennis Shrewder and Dorian Finney Smith 2143 01:39:17,239 --> 01:39:19,680 and like two of them and Camp Tom like Camp 2144 01:39:20,359 --> 01:39:22,600 not Camp, well maybe Cam Thomas but also Cam Johnson. 2145 01:39:22,800 --> 01:39:24,960 Ship those guys out and then you build the culture 2146 01:39:24,960 --> 01:39:27,520 from there. So if they overachieve, it looks oh, it's like, 2147 01:39:27,520 --> 01:39:30,840 oh they're they're seventeenth and a half court offense rather 2148 01:39:30,880 --> 01:39:38,119 than oh, whoops. Another name I considered Jamal Mosley. Yeah, 2149 01:39:38,199 --> 01:39:40,199 you mentioned how we like to gravitate towards the coaches 2150 01:39:40,199 --> 01:39:43,239 that might be responsible for defense. Orlando chug Along also 2151 01:39:43,319 --> 01:39:47,000 without Polo. I would like an investigation into why it 2152 01:39:47,039 --> 01:39:49,439 feels like players, whether it's out of the draft or 2153 01:39:49,439 --> 01:39:52,560 in free agency, go to Orlando and then shoot worse 2154 01:39:52,840 --> 01:39:56,319 than expected, Like Franz was considered a better shooter coming 2155 01:39:56,319 --> 01:40:00,000 into Orlando, and then CACP was considered a better shoot 2156 01:40:00,159 --> 01:40:02,960 than this. Even Paulo was considered a better shooter than 2157 01:40:03,000 --> 01:40:05,039 he was kind of coming into Orlando. So I'd like 2158 01:40:05,079 --> 01:40:07,439 some investigations done into that. But overall, he's done a 2159 01:40:07,439 --> 01:40:08,560 bang up job for sure. 2160 01:40:09,000 --> 01:40:10,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, anybody else, I think those are all we've did. 2161 01:40:10,960 --> 01:40:12,920 Speaker 1: The big one, well we forgot there's a big one. 2162 01:40:13,159 --> 01:40:15,119 And I just want to shout him out for being 2163 01:40:15,119 --> 01:40:18,039 brave enough to play mcal Bridges forty six and a 2164 01:40:18,079 --> 01:40:20,640 half minutes in a blowout win over the Charlotte Hornets. 2165 01:40:20,960 --> 01:40:26,880 Tom Thibodeau a man of principle, fuck your minutes minutes management, 2166 01:40:26,960 --> 01:40:28,880 and you know what I and I'm not taking a 2167 01:40:28,920 --> 01:40:31,359 shot at Knicks fans here. Oh we have a good 2168 01:40:31,439 --> 01:40:33,119 question after this in the chat I want to get to. 2169 01:40:33,680 --> 01:40:36,640 But he's also convinced Knicks fans that this is a 2170 01:40:36,680 --> 01:40:37,119 good thing. 2171 01:40:38,359 --> 01:40:40,439 Speaker 2: He's sale where it was like. 2172 01:40:40,399 --> 01:40:43,119 Speaker 1: Oh, that second half against the Hornets was the easiest 2173 01:40:43,439 --> 01:40:45,960 twenty four minutes or twenty minutes Michel Bridges has ever 2174 01:40:46,000 --> 01:40:48,920 played and it's no, it doesn't work like that, But 2175 01:40:49,359 --> 01:40:52,359 he's got the fan base buying into it, so I 2176 01:40:52,800 --> 01:40:54,920 respect it. I feel like it's eventually going to come 2177 01:40:54,960 --> 01:40:58,239 back to fuck them over in the playoffs and in 2178 01:40:58,319 --> 01:41:01,479 certain situations it's not look at the lack of options 2179 01:41:01,600 --> 01:41:04,119 at his disposal, like the Hornets one. I think you 2180 01:41:04,159 --> 01:41:07,560 could argue was pretty irresponsible the way those minutes where 2181 01:41:08,199 --> 01:41:12,000 you inured, and so you're deciding to then play all 2182 01:41:12,000 --> 01:41:13,840 these other key guys too many minutes in a game 2183 01:41:13,840 --> 01:41:14,600 that you were gonna win. 2184 01:41:14,880 --> 01:41:18,000 Speaker 2: I like to view that as him basically saying to Bridges, 2185 01:41:18,039 --> 01:41:20,239 like you get out there, and you stay out there 2186 01:41:20,319 --> 01:41:23,359 until you figure it out, Like you'll come back and 2187 01:41:23,399 --> 01:41:26,439 sit down until you quit being bad on defense. Just 2188 01:41:26,560 --> 01:41:28,079 you get out there. It was like a very like 2189 01:41:28,119 --> 01:41:29,399 angry parent situation. 2190 01:41:30,039 --> 01:41:31,680 Speaker 1: Do you think Quinn Snyder is going to deserve some 2191 01:41:32,000 --> 01:41:34,520 like Atlanta's defending well and it's oh, the offense will 2192 01:41:34,560 --> 01:41:37,399 be fine once Trey Young continues to hit more shots. 2193 01:41:37,239 --> 01:41:40,359 Speaker 2: Well, I think yeah. I mean the fact that they 2194 01:41:40,359 --> 01:41:44,039 have been as successful relatively as they have been with 2195 01:41:44,159 --> 01:41:46,640 Young just not shooting and scoring as well as he 2196 01:41:46,680 --> 01:41:49,079 has in the past is a plus. I also think 2197 01:41:49,079 --> 01:41:50,720 it's a plus that Young's usage rate is at a 2198 01:41:50,760 --> 01:41:53,039 career low. Like I think he's final like he it 2199 01:41:53,119 --> 01:41:56,239 hasn't been like the overhaul that maybe some expected when 2200 01:41:56,239 --> 01:41:58,560 Snyder showed up. It's like, oh, we're getting the jazz offense. Now, 2201 01:41:58,560 --> 01:42:02,359 everybody's gonna get touches. But he's like slowly peeling away 2202 01:42:03,199 --> 01:42:05,640 some of the usage to where it is like I 2203 01:42:05,680 --> 01:42:07,560 wouldn't go so far as to say it's a it's 2204 01:42:07,600 --> 01:42:10,840 like an egalitarian offense where it's just like whoever has 2205 01:42:10,880 --> 01:42:13,680 the advantage gets to It's not that, but it is 2206 01:42:13,720 --> 01:42:16,000 like closer to that, and that's a hard thing to 2207 01:42:16,039 --> 01:42:18,720 do because that just has not been how Atlanta has played. 2208 01:42:18,720 --> 01:42:21,399 And yeah, defense, the defense is finally not awful. It's 2209 01:42:21,399 --> 01:42:24,800 like midpack, which is great. I think he if the 2210 01:42:24,800 --> 01:42:27,359 Hawks they've won six in a row now, if they 2211 01:42:27,600 --> 01:42:30,039 like really solidify themselves as the top six team in 2212 01:42:30,079 --> 01:42:32,479 the East, I think he does have to get some consideration. 2213 01:42:33,000 --> 01:42:34,479 Speaker 1: The other one I wanted to shout out just because 2214 01:42:34,479 --> 01:42:36,960 we shouted out Jordi. I think Darkoreyakovic has done a 2215 01:42:37,000 --> 01:42:39,439 great job Toronto. I said this on the other podcast 2216 01:42:39,800 --> 01:42:42,000 they're the most entertaining team below for. 2217 01:42:41,960 --> 01:42:44,119 Speaker 2: Me, and he really gets credit for the sense of that, 2218 01:42:44,199 --> 01:42:46,119 from the sense of like you're just using what you 2219 01:42:46,199 --> 01:42:47,920 got and you're kind of gonna see like the RJ. 2220 01:42:48,000 --> 01:42:50,720 Barrett stuff is great, and he's like playing some rookies 2221 01:42:50,760 --> 01:42:52,640 and just he's throwing it. He's getting the most of 2222 01:42:52,680 --> 01:42:53,159 what he has. 2223 01:42:53,239 --> 01:42:55,600 Speaker 1: I think, Uh, this is a fun question. We didn't 2224 01:42:55,640 --> 01:42:57,760 do a battle for this, but grant who's been the worst? 2225 01:42:58,279 --> 01:42:59,840 Is it Chauncey Billups? That's from Uh. 2226 01:43:02,039 --> 01:43:04,199 Speaker 2: Billups is up there and seems like he has been 2227 01:43:04,199 --> 01:43:08,199 for several years. Man, who's been Like who's done a 2228 01:43:08,239 --> 01:43:08,960 bad job? 2229 01:43:09,960 --> 01:43:17,520 Speaker 1: I think this might be unpopular, but Mike Brown, like, 2230 01:43:17,920 --> 01:43:20,600 you gotta do more to kind of rework Sacramento shot 2231 01:43:20,640 --> 01:43:25,079 profile at this point, what's that. 2232 01:43:25,239 --> 01:43:28,000 Speaker 2: Leading the league in mid range frequency by an insane margin. 2233 01:43:28,119 --> 01:43:30,319 Speaker 1: And I understand the personnel, and I also understand that 2234 01:43:30,359 --> 01:43:33,560 Keagan Murray has been infected by whatever Kevin Herder has 2235 01:43:33,640 --> 01:43:36,000 when it comes to shooting, but like, you need to 2236 01:43:36,000 --> 01:43:41,159 get more out of like that offense specifically, and I've 2237 01:43:41,159 --> 01:43:43,199 been a little bit it feels like he's still kind 2238 01:43:43,199 --> 01:43:45,600 of searching for his rotations and playing a lot of 2239 01:43:45,600 --> 01:43:48,199 times it feels like he's playing who he feels like 2240 01:43:48,239 --> 01:43:52,079 he should or feels like is the politically correct answer, 2241 01:43:52,199 --> 01:43:55,039 rather than who should actually just be out there. I 2242 01:43:55,039 --> 01:43:57,119 don't think he's been I wouldn't call him the worst 2243 01:43:57,119 --> 01:43:59,560 coach in basketball by any stretch. I guess Billups might 2244 01:43:59,560 --> 01:44:03,239 be the answer. I don't I mean, Billy Donovan taking 2245 01:44:03,239 --> 01:44:04,840 so long to get to bizellis do you want like 2246 01:44:04,880 --> 01:44:06,640 to throw that out there? But at the same time, like, 2247 01:44:06,640 --> 01:44:09,920 look at what Levigne and Vooch have done under him 2248 01:44:10,039 --> 01:44:12,840 this year. I don't. Do you have any qualms about 2249 01:44:12,840 --> 01:44:14,640 what Rick Carlisle's doing in Indiana? 2250 01:44:14,680 --> 01:44:17,239 Speaker 2: Is he even like at some point you might get 2251 01:44:17,279 --> 01:44:19,800 some Carlisle k just because like the thing Indiana was 2252 01:44:19,800 --> 01:44:21,560 supposed to be good at, which is offense, they're not 2253 01:44:22,039 --> 01:44:25,359 so good, Like I just and there. I don't know 2254 01:44:25,359 --> 01:44:27,159 how much of that's personnel though, I mean it's like 2255 01:44:27,399 --> 01:44:30,239 how much control do you have over over like Tyres 2256 01:44:30,279 --> 01:44:32,119 Haliburt and like just like losing his magic. 2257 01:44:32,560 --> 01:44:34,319 Speaker 1: I like that. This is the question that brings out 2258 01:44:34,319 --> 01:44:37,640 the more of the comments. But honestly, carl might be 2259 01:44:37,720 --> 01:44:40,199 a good answer, because are you kind of like they've 2260 01:44:40,199 --> 01:44:42,720 slowed down a bunch, and I know they have Pascal Siakam, 2261 01:44:42,760 --> 01:44:46,079 but like, don't slow down your offense for Ben mcmathrin, please, no, 2262 01:44:46,399 --> 01:44:48,359 don't do that. So that might be a good answer. 2263 01:44:48,359 --> 01:44:51,560 It's probably Billups though, but I don't you mentioned personnel. 2264 01:44:51,600 --> 01:44:54,159 It's just they've given him a team that doesn't really 2265 01:44:54,239 --> 01:44:56,000 make a ton of sense. So what else is he 2266 01:44:56,039 --> 01:44:58,680 gonna Molly wants to say Hi twice? What's up? Molly 2267 01:44:58,760 --> 01:45:01,119 and Herschneck. I don't really what that means. You can 2268 01:45:01,119 --> 01:45:05,199 explain that in the chat. Hello to you too, Sosh. Yeah, 2269 01:45:05,279 --> 01:45:07,600 that's a tough question. I think the answers probably Bill Ups, 2270 01:45:07,640 --> 01:45:10,039 but I would keep an eye just relative to expectations 2271 01:45:10,479 --> 01:45:12,840 Carlile and Brown, right, am I missing anyone? 2272 01:45:13,279 --> 01:45:16,880 Speaker 2: Well, depending on the day, Steve Kerr gets nominated by 2273 01:45:17,119 --> 01:45:20,319 by Warriors fans as just like fire him immediately. You know, 2274 01:45:20,439 --> 01:45:22,000 you know where I stand on Steve Kerr. I defend 2275 01:45:22,039 --> 01:45:24,079 Steve Kerr no matter what he does, and I will 2276 01:45:24,079 --> 01:45:24,760 continue to do that. 2277 01:45:24,880 --> 01:45:26,760 Speaker 1: But why did he make your Coach of the Year ballot? Then? 2278 01:45:27,680 --> 01:45:31,239 Speaker 2: Because he's he's like moved beyond. He doesn't like we 2279 01:45:31,239 --> 01:45:33,439 don't still nominate Phil Jackson for Coach of the Year. 2280 01:45:33,479 --> 01:45:37,960 That's where Steve Popovich I do think he does deserve 2281 01:45:38,000 --> 01:45:43,119 some criticism for just continuing to are you ready? Just 2282 01:45:43,199 --> 01:45:46,439 like it's been there have been too many cases of 2283 01:45:46,920 --> 01:45:50,479 young guys just not getting chances, and I've always thought 2284 01:45:50,520 --> 01:45:53,760 like they got to earn him. But like, if you're 2285 01:45:53,800 --> 01:45:55,760 really got the short leash on them in ways that 2286 01:45:55,800 --> 01:45:58,439 some of the other guys don't, and you know you're 2287 01:45:58,479 --> 01:46:01,239 not gonna give consistent minutes to go guys like kaminga 2288 01:46:01,319 --> 01:46:03,279 Moses Moody is everybody's favorite example. 2289 01:46:04,079 --> 01:46:06,840 Speaker 1: Well, do you know what happened in that loss against 2290 01:46:06,840 --> 01:46:10,560 the Timberwolves on Friday night? Moses Moody wasn't even actually injured. 2291 01:46:10,880 --> 01:46:12,399 They just he just ruled him out for the game. 2292 01:46:12,439 --> 01:46:14,159 After he went on the court, he's like, no, it's live. 2293 01:46:14,319 --> 01:46:19,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, they always got knee soreness, get him out. But yeah, 2294 01:46:19,800 --> 01:46:22,920 I think we've I think we've got it's probably Bill Ups, right, Like, 2295 01:46:23,640 --> 01:46:26,119 how about this? What has Chauncey Billups done that that 2296 01:46:26,239 --> 01:46:29,479 makes you say, I think he's yeah, okay, that was 2297 01:46:29,520 --> 01:46:31,239 really a smart decision, Like he's got. 2298 01:46:31,119 --> 01:46:33,960 Speaker 1: Unleashed Kimani Kamara unleash. 2299 01:46:33,640 --> 01:46:34,760 Speaker 2: Him further, how about that? 2300 01:46:35,439 --> 01:46:37,000 Speaker 1: What do you want you want to running picking rolls? 2301 01:46:37,159 --> 01:46:37,840 Speaker 2: Yeah? Everything? 2302 01:46:38,439 --> 01:46:41,359 Speaker 1: Uh, the other one. Here's the thing. So I was 2303 01:46:41,399 --> 01:46:44,199 out and about late Friday night. I didn't see JJ 2304 01:46:44,279 --> 01:46:47,920 Reddick anywhere grinding film. Granted I'm on the East coast 2305 01:46:48,079 --> 01:46:50,800 and he's on the West coast. But is it time 2306 01:46:50,800 --> 01:46:53,000 to start talking about whether the Lakers made this huge? 2307 01:46:53,000 --> 01:46:56,520 Like he should be everywhere all at once, grinding film 2308 01:46:56,680 --> 01:46:59,079 at all hours of the day. 2309 01:46:59,359 --> 01:47:04,279 Speaker 2: What Like, At what point, though, seriously, will we get 2310 01:47:04,640 --> 01:47:09,199 the like real ground swell of it wasn't dark? I 2311 01:47:09,239 --> 01:47:10,800 think we're already seeing a little bit of it. Like 2312 01:47:11,199 --> 01:47:13,800 you see the record comparison, like through X number of games, 2313 01:47:13,840 --> 01:47:15,840 Here's where Darvin Ham had the Lakers at. Here's what 2314 01:47:15,960 --> 01:47:18,800 JJ has him at. It wasn't Darvin Ham's fault. Like, 2315 01:47:18,840 --> 01:47:21,039 at what point will because you know it's coming. If 2316 01:47:21,079 --> 01:47:23,960 the Lakers continue to struggle and JJ Redick has like 2317 01:47:23,960 --> 01:47:27,039 called him out, he's like been real direct about the 2318 01:47:27,119 --> 01:47:29,560 level of play, Like, at what point will fans start 2319 01:47:29,600 --> 01:47:30,840 to say it's Reddick's fault? 2320 01:47:31,840 --> 01:47:35,359 Speaker 1: I would it's coming. I think it's like if it's not, 2321 01:47:36,039 --> 01:47:40,560 if they continue to I'm gonna say by January first. Okay, 2322 01:47:40,960 --> 01:47:43,199 if they're below five hundred, it'll be coming. But I 2323 01:47:43,239 --> 01:47:46,159 honestly think that's more of a this front office for 2324 01:47:46,359 --> 01:47:50,279 years Grant now has basically made no good material changes 2325 01:47:50,319 --> 01:47:53,439 to the personnel, and the sword has always fallen on 2326 01:47:53,479 --> 01:47:55,560 the head coach, which I'm not saying Darvin Ham was perfect. 2327 01:47:55,560 --> 01:47:57,560 There were a lot of smart people who thought he 2328 01:47:57,640 --> 01:48:00,680 deserved to be fired. But come on, oh, finally, because 2329 01:48:00,680 --> 01:48:02,720 we need to move on. Like Chris Finch trying to 2330 01:48:02,720 --> 01:48:04,920 make Julius Randall happen too much and then also trying 2331 01:48:04,960 --> 01:48:07,720 to sell us on the Julius Randall trade. Yeah, unforgivable. 2332 01:48:07,840 --> 01:48:12,199 Not a fan, everyone's favorite award executive of the year. 2333 01:48:12,520 --> 01:48:13,239 Speaker 2: I have a theory. 2334 01:48:14,000 --> 01:48:15,920 Speaker 1: Would you care to listen to it for a second? 2335 01:48:16,279 --> 01:48:18,800 Speaker 2: M yeah, always, all right, we'll skip it. 2336 01:48:18,960 --> 01:48:22,359 Speaker 1: No, do you think that the new collective Bargaining Agreement 2337 01:48:22,760 --> 01:48:27,680 it's kind of kneecapped transactions, like kind of on both 2338 01:48:27,680 --> 01:48:29,880 fronts with free agency because of how extensions work now 2339 01:48:29,880 --> 01:48:31,880 and then even trades because of the different aprons and 2340 01:48:31,880 --> 01:48:35,560 how reticent teams are to use X or lock themselves 2341 01:48:35,560 --> 01:48:38,279 into the first apron like being hard tapped there and 2342 01:48:38,359 --> 01:48:40,520 by extension. That makes this award a little bit harder 2343 01:48:40,680 --> 01:48:44,199 because I feel like the past, like in previous years, 2344 01:48:44,479 --> 01:48:46,960 you and I've always had these long lists, and you 2345 01:48:47,000 --> 01:48:49,720 and I spent here's a peep behind the curtain way 2346 01:48:49,760 --> 01:48:51,880 too long trying to figure out who our third selection 2347 01:48:52,119 --> 01:48:53,399 is going to be for this. 2348 01:48:53,279 --> 01:48:57,479 Speaker 2: One short, short answer. Yes, it is like it's made 2349 01:48:57,560 --> 01:49:00,279 things harder to do, like functionally, it's all. It's just 2350 01:49:00,319 --> 01:49:03,760 made things harder to do. Like I'm never gonna forget that. 2351 01:49:04,000 --> 01:49:07,880 It was probably like two weeks ago Brian Windhorst had 2352 01:49:07,880 --> 01:49:10,079 a quote from an executive in the league talking about 2353 01:49:10,119 --> 01:49:12,520 how like we had these we had three iterations of 2354 01:49:12,560 --> 01:49:15,000 this trade and or we had a trade set up, 2355 01:49:15,079 --> 01:49:17,039 and it turned out there were like three different reasons 2356 01:49:17,039 --> 01:49:19,199 we couldn't do it legally under the new CBA, and 2357 01:49:19,239 --> 01:49:21,640 we didn't even know. We didn't even understand one of them. 2358 01:49:21,760 --> 01:49:24,720 So it's just like the rules are such now that 2359 01:49:24,880 --> 01:49:27,079 like even if there's a will, there's just like not 2360 01:49:27,159 --> 01:49:30,279 a way to do stuff. So yeah, I totally agree, 2361 01:49:30,319 --> 01:49:32,680 it was really hard. Part of that is because some 2362 01:49:32,720 --> 01:49:35,000 of the executives over the offseason that we thought had 2363 01:49:35,000 --> 01:49:36,960 done a very good job have not gotten results and 2364 01:49:37,039 --> 01:49:43,640 removed themselves from consideration. Here, Darryl Morey, Yeah, I that 2365 01:49:43,760 --> 01:49:44,760 he he was? 2366 01:49:44,760 --> 01:49:47,199 Speaker 1: Was he our preseason pick? I'm pretty sure he was 2367 01:49:47,479 --> 01:49:51,840 when you're talking about it. But yeah, So for me, well, 2368 01:49:51,880 --> 01:49:53,640 why don't you go through your sort because I think 2369 01:49:53,640 --> 01:49:55,800 that you made an egregious error at number one? 2370 01:49:56,079 --> 01:49:58,760 Speaker 2: Oh really? How dare you? Because he's your number two 2371 01:49:58,760 --> 01:49:59,720 and there's a gap there. 2372 01:50:00,399 --> 01:50:02,720 Speaker 1: Yes, because there's just no good options. But you picked 2373 01:50:02,720 --> 01:50:04,479 Sean marks one, so spoilers trying to he is not 2374 01:50:04,560 --> 01:50:06,800 watching go through your ballot. 2375 01:50:06,880 --> 01:50:09,479 Speaker 2: Yeah, so I got Sean marks one. Anytime you can 2376 01:50:09,520 --> 01:50:11,960 get five first and a swap for Michale Bridges and 2377 01:50:12,039 --> 01:50:14,920 then mckal bridges goes on to basically suck on both ends, 2378 01:50:15,199 --> 01:50:18,319 you're a winner, I think. I mean that's part of it. 2379 01:50:18,520 --> 01:50:21,239 Hiring Jordy Fernandez is part of it. I guess we 2380 01:50:21,319 --> 01:50:24,079 give him some credit too for presiding over the I 2381 01:50:24,079 --> 01:50:26,920 don't know, it's always so hard to decide who's like 2382 01:50:27,000 --> 01:50:30,920 in charge of like the vibes. It's probably more coach 2383 01:50:30,960 --> 01:50:33,119 than executive. But I think we can give Marx a 2384 01:50:33,159 --> 01:50:36,479 little bit of the credit for like making Brooklyn kind 2385 01:50:36,479 --> 01:50:39,760 of like a fun like way overachieving place to be 2386 01:50:40,039 --> 01:50:42,800 where all of you've got so many agendas, Like all 2387 01:50:42,840 --> 01:50:45,319 these guys know they're getting traded, and all these young 2388 01:50:45,319 --> 01:50:48,560 guys like want certain roles and it's just hard. It's 2389 01:50:48,560 --> 01:50:51,159 like a tough place to be. I think I'm giving 2390 01:50:51,199 --> 01:50:53,680 him some credit for that going like functionally pretty well 2391 01:50:53,800 --> 01:50:57,319 so far. I got Presty second, I'm sure we had 2392 01:50:57,399 --> 01:51:00,399 him high preseason, just you know, the Hartenstein thing is 2393 01:51:00,439 --> 01:51:01,840 like you had the money and you did it, but 2394 01:51:01,880 --> 01:51:05,199 it was also somewhat bold because you have chet Holmegrin 2395 01:51:05,239 --> 01:51:05,640 at center. 2396 01:51:06,439 --> 01:51:09,000 Speaker 1: But it's like hasn't he been but not that you 2397 01:51:09,039 --> 01:51:11,840 need to be vindicated. He's certainly been revalidated having Hart 2398 01:51:11,840 --> 01:51:13,600 and Stock with you, Chet home Grid injury right. 2399 01:51:13,680 --> 01:51:16,279 Speaker 2: Absolutely, that's part of the reason he's here. Uh And 2400 01:51:16,760 --> 01:51:18,920 the career you win the Caruso trade, you get off 2401 01:51:19,000 --> 01:51:21,279 Josh Giddy's contract before you have to make a decision 2402 01:51:21,279 --> 01:51:25,239 to spend on it. I think that we like several 2403 01:51:25,319 --> 01:51:27,640 of their rookies, even though the roles have been tiny, 2404 01:51:27,720 --> 01:51:31,119 because they're just a deep team. Uh so I we're 2405 01:51:31,159 --> 01:51:32,800 going to be here forever. Yeah. 2406 01:51:32,840 --> 01:51:34,960 Speaker 1: The deals for Isaiah, Joe and Aaron Wiggins too. I 2407 01:51:34,960 --> 01:51:37,520 thought were smart paying them a little bit early so 2408 01:51:37,560 --> 01:51:40,279 that you get them on the steal of the deals. Uh, 2409 01:51:40,760 --> 01:51:43,760 Molly Enterstecas should she sub yes or no? I would say, 2410 01:51:43,760 --> 01:51:45,720 I mean, if you like the NBA, yes, otherwise I 2411 01:51:45,720 --> 01:51:47,640 don't don't really know why. If you're how are you 2412 01:51:47,720 --> 01:51:49,720 not subscribed to as already? If you like the NBA? 2413 01:51:49,840 --> 01:51:53,039 If you're here's my thing. So Sean Marks built a 2414 01:51:53,119 --> 01:51:56,079 roster that was supposed to tank and there they're not? 2415 01:51:56,079 --> 01:51:57,840 Really so how is he number one? 2416 01:51:58,119 --> 01:51:59,920 Speaker 2: Too good at his job? Sorry? 2417 01:52:00,520 --> 01:52:02,079 Speaker 1: I have a number two? It was just kind of 2418 01:52:02,119 --> 01:52:04,680 splitting hairs. I think when you frame it like, I 2419 01:52:04,720 --> 01:52:07,279 think you're being I know you were being hyperbolic about 2420 01:52:07,319 --> 01:52:09,800 mckil bridge is actually sucking. But getting as much as 2421 01:52:09,840 --> 01:52:12,800 you did for someone who will probably never make an 2422 01:52:12,840 --> 01:52:16,880 All Star team, right, incredible? I have Lawrence Frank and 2423 01:52:16,960 --> 01:52:20,720 part of this is a mayakopa because we destroyed the 2424 01:52:20,760 --> 01:52:23,640 Clippers off season by letting Paul George walk for nothing. YEP. 2425 01:52:23,680 --> 01:52:28,159 I still think that's a controversial way of managing the asset, 2426 01:52:28,800 --> 01:52:31,399 but you can't argue with the results you got. Chris Dunn, 2427 01:52:31,840 --> 01:52:33,800 Derek Jones Junior coming out of it, you were able 2428 01:52:33,840 --> 01:52:37,920 to unlock Norman Powell, like is playing this role the 2429 01:52:38,000 --> 01:52:40,520 Kawhi Leonard extension you could dig them for except that 2430 01:52:40,600 --> 01:52:43,079 happened last year, so that's not going to be part 2431 01:52:43,079 --> 01:52:44,960 of this. I think you look at what the Clippers 2432 01:52:44,960 --> 01:52:49,000 that built and even I maybe are the Zoobots extension? 2433 01:52:49,039 --> 01:52:51,039 What was that? Three years and fifty nine million? Just 2434 01:52:51,079 --> 01:52:53,600 about everything turning out well? And I think even the 2435 01:52:53,680 --> 01:52:55,880 James Harden deal where you're just not locked Okay, yeah, 2436 01:52:55,920 --> 01:52:57,920 it's a player option, you're just not locked into James 2437 01:52:57,920 --> 01:53:01,079 Harden long term, I think that works out well for them. 2438 01:53:01,960 --> 01:53:04,239 I do wonder if I'm putting him here, is he 2439 01:53:04,279 --> 01:53:06,640 benefiting too much from like, oh, there's guys that already 2440 01:53:06,720 --> 01:53:08,640 on the roster that are just playing like these bigger 2441 01:53:08,720 --> 01:53:11,399 roles and a lot better perhaps like in a mere 2442 01:53:11,439 --> 01:53:15,880 Coffee as an example there. But I just I think 2443 01:53:15,920 --> 01:53:19,680 he deserves to be here because I think everyone probably 2444 01:53:19,720 --> 01:53:22,920 just destroyed the Clippers for the off season that they had, 2445 01:53:23,119 --> 01:53:26,560 and it's it looks like are they a contender? No, 2446 01:53:26,840 --> 01:53:29,119 but they feel like they're one player away from being so, 2447 01:53:29,720 --> 01:53:32,680 and like that player might be on the roster if 2448 01:53:32,720 --> 01:53:35,439 Kawhi Leonard's ever healthy, bring back Nick Matoom, because I 2449 01:53:35,439 --> 01:53:37,479 forget about that that's been big for them. Like the 2450 01:53:37,560 --> 01:53:40,399 Kevin Porter Junior signing was dumb in the moment, looks 2451 01:53:40,439 --> 01:53:44,520 dumber now. So yeah, he's he's there for me. I 2452 01:53:44,520 --> 01:53:46,000 don't know if you did you get into Zach Kleman 2453 01:53:46,039 --> 01:53:46,239 at all? 2454 01:53:46,279 --> 01:53:47,800 Speaker 2: You have him a number, No, No, I just I want 2455 01:53:47,880 --> 01:53:50,159 to say, on Frank, I think that's a great observation 2456 01:53:50,279 --> 01:53:52,840 because like if you think, just think of like Marx 2457 01:53:52,880 --> 01:53:56,000 and Presty in contrast, like I don't think any of 2458 01:53:56,039 --> 01:53:59,880 the decisions were praising them for were hard, right, Like 2459 01:54:00,079 --> 01:54:02,479 it was like, oh, great call, Like you're kidding me. 2460 01:54:02,520 --> 01:54:04,640 We can get Alex Caruso for Josh Giddy, Like we 2461 01:54:04,640 --> 01:54:07,039 don't have to give up a pick, like that's. Yes, 2462 01:54:09,560 --> 01:54:12,600 there's so many decisions they made now, like still credit them, 2463 01:54:12,600 --> 01:54:15,199 we have them one and two. But the Paul George thing, 2464 01:54:15,600 --> 01:54:18,600 that's a hard call like that that and we criticized 2465 01:54:18,600 --> 01:54:21,239 it because we thought they got it wrong, and in 2466 01:54:21,319 --> 01:54:24,199 fact they did not, because Paul George looks like a 2467 01:54:24,239 --> 01:54:26,199 really bad contract right now. And if you had that 2468 01:54:26,319 --> 01:54:28,840 on your books, the argument that oh you can just 2469 01:54:28,840 --> 01:54:31,640 just trade him for something like it's positive value, Like 2470 01:54:31,960 --> 01:54:34,319 I don't think so I don't and it's not getting 2471 01:54:34,359 --> 01:54:37,199 better right, like as he continues to age, so like 2472 01:54:37,319 --> 01:54:41,399 to get a really hard decision, right, might deserve more 2473 01:54:41,439 --> 01:54:44,720 credit in some ways than like yeah, we'll take Isaiah 2474 01:54:44,760 --> 01:54:47,079 Hartenstein for this much money of course, like we've got it, 2475 01:54:47,119 --> 01:54:48,760 we'll spend it, like you know what I mean? And yeah, 2476 01:54:49,000 --> 01:54:51,560 and then doubly so for Marx. It's like you want 2477 01:54:51,560 --> 01:54:54,800 to give us what for mcil bridge, you know, like 2478 01:54:54,840 --> 01:54:58,199 who's not saying yes to that? So anyway, so I 2479 01:54:58,239 --> 01:55:02,359 have climbing Uh. I just think like we've been hard 2480 01:55:02,359 --> 01:55:05,520 on the Grizzlies because we've we've several times like gone 2481 01:55:05,560 --> 01:55:08,520 through the flow chart of like they turned this into this, 2482 01:55:08,800 --> 01:55:12,199 you know, like these picks and these assets into Marcus 2483 01:55:12,239 --> 01:55:17,479 Smart congratulations. But like they keep finding rookies, they keep 2484 01:55:17,720 --> 01:55:20,359 drafting and developing. They are you know, these end of 2485 01:55:20,399 --> 01:55:22,840 guys they have like zire woumbs and workout that's not here, 2486 01:55:23,000 --> 01:55:25,840 neither here nor there for now. But like getting Scottie 2487 01:55:25,840 --> 01:55:29,000 Pippen junior and putting him on a real contract, finding 2488 01:55:29,119 --> 01:55:32,399 Jay Huff, like drafting Jalen Wells, who you had second 2489 01:55:32,399 --> 01:55:34,800 and I had, you had third and I had fourth 2490 01:55:34,880 --> 01:55:37,840 in my Rookie of Year list, Like they just keep 2491 01:55:37,880 --> 01:55:40,760 finding guys. And the fact too that like you remake 2492 01:55:40,960 --> 01:55:44,560 the staff without firing the head coach, like that's I mean, 2493 01:55:45,479 --> 01:55:48,119 that's very rare one and it's hard to imagine that's 2494 01:55:48,119 --> 01:55:50,479 been successful in the past two so kind of up 2495 01:55:50,520 --> 01:55:53,439 and down, like from personnel to coaching to just like, 2496 01:55:53,479 --> 01:55:56,800 I don't know, figure Jake Laravia is good. I don't know, 2497 01:55:56,920 --> 01:56:01,239 let's climbing for that, like getting you know, Santielle Damas 2498 01:56:01,239 --> 01:56:03,039 still continues to get a little bit like kind of 2499 01:56:03,079 --> 01:56:05,199 up and down. If you're gonna if you're gonna just 2500 01:56:05,239 --> 01:56:07,279 credit an organization for getting a lot of stuff right, 2501 01:56:07,479 --> 01:56:09,439 I think you probably just have to give the executive 2502 01:56:09,479 --> 01:56:09,880 some of that. 2503 01:56:10,439 --> 01:56:13,159 Speaker 1: I do think maybe some people still believe in Dayl 2504 01:56:13,239 --> 01:56:15,640 Moury's vision, which imagine by the end of the year, 2505 01:56:15,680 --> 01:56:17,800 the six Ers just in the conference finals and but 2506 01:56:18,279 --> 01:56:22,439 we'll repivot. I think the biggest absence I think James 2507 01:56:22,520 --> 01:56:26,399 Jones we considered for sure, like just drafting or getting 2508 01:56:26,399 --> 01:56:28,399 on draft night, Ohsa goodar on Ryan Donn and then 2509 01:56:28,439 --> 01:56:32,520 the Tias Jones deal, uh the thing the Knicks stuff 2510 01:56:32,800 --> 01:56:36,199 with Leon Rose. I will view it. I view it 2511 01:56:36,199 --> 01:56:40,880 this way. They overpaid for mckal Bridges, even relative to 2512 01:56:40,960 --> 01:56:43,199 how they view themselves and what they thought they needed 2513 01:56:43,199 --> 01:56:46,000 to give up for the Nets to get to get 2514 01:56:46,000 --> 01:56:49,359 off of mckail Bridges. I would say, ogn nobody's been great. 2515 01:56:49,600 --> 01:56:51,840 You don't get to say that he's on a boat 2516 01:56:51,880 --> 01:56:53,800 like they got market They signed Og and Nobody to 2517 01:56:53,800 --> 01:56:57,039 a market level contract. Yep, that's that's fine. And then 2518 01:56:57,359 --> 01:57:00,560 the town's trade. I guess they want it. And would 2519 01:57:00,600 --> 01:57:05,560 you call it a home run? It's yeah, but it's 2520 01:57:05,600 --> 01:57:09,239 like I viewed as a one net negative move, maybe 2521 01:57:09,239 --> 01:57:12,520 one home run with towns and then or combined towns 2522 01:57:12,520 --> 01:57:14,720 in OG equal home run and the michale Bridges trade. 2523 01:57:14,760 --> 01:57:17,039 It's it might work out, but it's so I viewed 2524 01:57:17,079 --> 01:57:19,920 as still their off season has the potential to be 2525 01:57:20,359 --> 01:57:22,239 There's gonna be no in in between, is my point. 2526 01:57:22,239 --> 01:57:23,760 When we look back right now, it feels like it's 2527 01:57:23,760 --> 01:57:26,239 hovering him in between. I think if we jump ahead 2528 01:57:26,239 --> 01:57:28,399 three years and look back right down to the Jaylen 2529 01:57:28,439 --> 01:57:30,399 Brunton extension, by the way, which getting him to sign 2530 01:57:30,479 --> 01:57:32,840 that is a big deal. They either had one of 2531 01:57:32,840 --> 01:57:36,039 the best off seasons in franchise history or one of 2532 01:57:36,079 --> 01:57:38,239 the worst off seasons in franchise history. 2533 01:57:38,520 --> 01:57:41,279 Speaker 2: Right, I think the brunts I was gonna bring up 2534 01:57:41,279 --> 01:57:44,000 the bruntson thing, like, I don't know. Yeah, I guess, 2535 01:57:44,279 --> 01:57:46,359 I guess you get credit for getting him to do that. 2536 01:57:46,479 --> 01:57:48,920 But it felt like Brunson's decision as much as you 2537 01:57:48,960 --> 01:57:50,680 know what I mean, Like that was just a rare case. 2538 01:57:50,680 --> 01:57:53,479 I guess you got an hour of friendship, right we 2539 01:57:54,079 --> 01:57:58,439 Executive of the Year is Villanova friendship except for I 2540 01:57:58,479 --> 01:57:58,720 have a. 2541 01:57:58,720 --> 01:58:01,399 Speaker 1: Question though, would you rather have all those picks back 2542 01:58:02,199 --> 01:58:04,960 and Jalen Brunson not on his extension and then so 2543 01:58:05,039 --> 01:58:07,279 no mckel bridges, or would you just rather have a 2544 01:58:07,279 --> 01:58:09,399 current ex setup of mckel bridges and then Brunson, who's 2545 01:58:09,399 --> 01:58:11,439 a top ten NBA player on that contract? 2546 01:58:11,560 --> 01:58:13,720 Speaker 2: So could I could I get all the picks and 2547 01:58:13,760 --> 01:58:15,640 Brunson's on a max like. 2548 01:58:16,239 --> 01:58:18,319 Speaker 1: So, yeah, it's not that you lose Brunson, it's that 2549 01:58:18,359 --> 01:58:20,880 Brunton is not he doesn't sign that extension, He's going 2550 01:58:20,880 --> 01:58:22,640 into free agency this year and then we'll re sign 2551 01:58:22,680 --> 01:58:22,840 with you. 2552 01:58:22,920 --> 01:58:26,399 Speaker 2: Then, man, that sounds pretty good. Actually because Brunson just 2553 01:58:26,439 --> 01:58:30,039 should get the most you can pay him basically, But 2554 01:58:30,079 --> 01:58:32,920 what are they gonna do with those picks? Get somebody 2555 01:58:32,920 --> 01:58:33,640 better than Bridges? 2556 01:58:33,680 --> 01:58:36,720 Speaker 1: Probably, I mean, Giannis is about to become available. 2557 01:58:37,119 --> 01:58:39,119 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know what, I think you want those picks back, 2558 01:58:39,159 --> 01:58:39,800 don't don't you? 2559 01:58:40,000 --> 01:58:40,079 Speaker 1: Like? 2560 01:58:40,159 --> 01:58:42,079 Speaker 2: I know, I know we're talking about in Bridges that 2561 01:58:42,199 --> 01:58:44,439 like a low point. He's got to get better. 2562 01:58:44,479 --> 01:58:48,279 Speaker 1: But man, Galaxy bring this are the Knicks somehow maybe 2563 01:58:48,279 --> 01:58:50,399 they were the ones that suggested he changes jump shot 2564 01:58:50,399 --> 01:58:52,800 form above the break. They want a new kids values 2565 01:58:52,840 --> 01:58:56,159 that he'll sign the cheap O extension this summer rather 2566 01:58:56,199 --> 01:58:58,520 than get the free agency the following summer. Then he'll 2567 01:58:58,520 --> 01:59:00,600 come back and make an all NBA team. I would say, 2568 01:59:00,800 --> 01:59:02,239 I don't want to anger Knicks fans, and I don't 2569 01:59:02,239 --> 01:59:04,399 think they would be wrong to be angry. I probably 2570 01:59:04,439 --> 01:59:06,640 would take my picks back, but the jury is still 2571 01:59:06,680 --> 01:59:08,159 out on this team. That's fair. 2572 01:59:08,319 --> 01:59:11,439 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think, And we've touched on this, like two 2573 01:59:11,439 --> 01:59:14,960 different sections of this, how Cat looks as not the 2574 01:59:15,000 --> 01:59:17,560 loan Big is going to go really really long way 2575 01:59:17,600 --> 01:59:20,560 towards determining like how the vision of this team ultimately 2576 01:59:20,560 --> 01:59:21,239 works out. 2577 01:59:21,439 --> 01:59:24,319 Speaker 1: I Honestly though, I do think like a lot hinges 2578 01:59:24,359 --> 01:59:26,359 on mckail bridges, because even when you're looking at moves, 2579 01:59:26,359 --> 01:59:29,439 they could, okay, play cat next to Robinson, or trade 2580 01:59:29,520 --> 01:59:31,960 for a Robert Williams the third, or can you get 2581 01:59:31,960 --> 01:59:35,960 another wing defender in there, anyone you acquire or elevate 2582 01:59:36,039 --> 01:59:37,640 or like. Now in theory, they're not going to be 2583 01:59:37,640 --> 01:59:39,399 a part of your closing lineup, and if they are, 2584 01:59:40,159 --> 01:59:43,199 that says something probably went wrong with mcal bridges. 2585 01:59:43,319 --> 01:59:47,279 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's true, man, we did it. We're under two 2586 01:59:47,319 --> 01:59:49,439 hours through the meat of this story. You said it 2587 01:59:49,479 --> 01:59:51,479 was going to take us three and I said we 2588 01:59:51,520 --> 01:59:54,079 could do it, and I forgot to start the timer 2589 01:59:54,199 --> 01:59:56,119 on every section and we still did it. So we 2590 01:59:56,159 --> 01:59:59,199 did it without being forced to. Kudos to us. Everything 2591 01:59:59,239 --> 02:00:01,840 that comes after this, we're at one fifty fifty seven. 2592 02:00:02,119 --> 02:00:04,279 It doesn't count because this is just the outro. 2593 02:00:05,039 --> 02:00:07,960 Speaker 1: And look and shout out anyone who I don't like 2594 02:00:08,079 --> 02:00:10,079 sending this out unedited, but it just made the most 2595 02:00:10,079 --> 02:00:11,960 sense because we're putting it out on a Saturday in 2596 02:00:11,960 --> 02:00:14,640 the afternoon that the video will be edited. So shout 2597 02:00:14,640 --> 02:00:16,359 out if you saw us going through and changing the 2598 02:00:16,399 --> 02:00:20,359 format of everything live. That's always just super fun. Grant, 2599 02:00:20,359 --> 02:00:22,239 do you have anything else or is it time for 2600 02:00:22,359 --> 02:00:26,199 us to Regrettably, I can't believe we did this in 2601 02:00:26,279 --> 02:00:26,880 two hours. 2602 02:00:27,039 --> 02:00:30,439 Speaker 2: Look at how impressive, very impressive. No, I don't have 2603 02:00:30,479 --> 02:00:32,560 anything to add other than as all the usual. Thanks. 2604 02:00:32,920 --> 02:00:34,600 If you checked in with us, if you commented, if 2605 02:00:34,640 --> 02:00:36,359 you watched us, if if you did any of that, 2606 02:00:36,439 --> 02:00:40,399 Please rate, review, subscribe, listen wherever you get your podcasts, 2607 02:00:40,479 --> 02:00:42,680 make sure you got us, got us all set up 2608 02:00:42,680 --> 02:00:45,640 there and you've given us solid reviews there. Comment on YouTube, 2609 02:00:46,319 --> 02:00:49,640 subscribe there as well. Help the algorithm. Be friends with 2610 02:00:49,720 --> 02:00:53,680 us and tell your friends, tell your enemies, check out, 2611 02:00:54,039 --> 02:00:55,920 join us on our discord a lot of times. We're 2612 02:00:55,920 --> 02:00:57,920 gonna do a mailbag I think coming up fairly soon. 2613 02:00:57,920 --> 02:01:00,279 So if you'd like to get some questions submitted there, 2614 02:01:00,560 --> 02:01:02,600 that's the place to do it. Links with that in 2615 02:01:02,680 --> 02:01:06,079 you tube and podcast description. I think that's gonna do it. 2616 02:01:06,159 --> 02:01:09,439 Thank you, Dan, thank you everybody, as always, shouts Franklin 2617 02:01:09,479 --> 02:01:10,840 lo Keen Apologies. Jared Allen 2618 02:01:12,880 --> 02:01:12,920 Speaker 1: M