Speaker 1: Hello, everybody, Welcome to the Time and Change Will Shirley Show.
Speaker 1: I'm Tony Gerdaman here with Juck Maletti as we discuss
Speaker 1: the past president and future of Ohio State through one
Speaker 1: particular topic. And I guess as we're discussing the past
Speaker 1: president of the future of Ohio State, the topic that
Speaker 1: we're choosing this week is the Michigan football program. So
Speaker 1: well actually talking more Michigan than Ohio State, but also
Speaker 1: don't worry, plenty of Ohio State. And as we like
Speaker 1: to do with these episodes, let's get some background, Juck,
Speaker 1: when did you really start to get aware become aware
Speaker 1: of the rivalry and what was it like growing up
Speaker 1: whenever you did with that rivalry.
Speaker 2: So my family, Italian Catholic family, Catholic school were majority
Speaker 2: Notre Dame fans, and I was an Ohio State fan,
Speaker 2: not as a way to rebell it them. It just
Speaker 2: felt natural to me to root for the guys that
Speaker 2: said Ohio and I didn't get the whole Notre Dame deal.
Speaker 2: So I want to say I was probably ten years
Speaker 2: old or so when the rivalry really became like part
Speaker 2: of because I had a neighbor who they all they
Speaker 2: went down, they had seen the season tickets, and I
Speaker 2: kind of got schooled by him and his family as
Speaker 2: to everything when I was younger, which is where I
Speaker 2: watched watch the game, watch a lot of the games
Speaker 2: growing up. So thank goodness for them, because you know,
Speaker 2: one one different change and I could have been a
Speaker 2: Notre Dame guy sitting here with the leprechaun behind me,
Speaker 2: you know who knows tone, But yeah, ten years old
Speaker 2: and then and then kind of that would have been
Speaker 2: like ninety one, and from there through my high school
Speaker 2: years it ended in about ninety eight. Were spent the
Speaker 2: majority of the time over there with my neighbors when
Speaker 2: they weren't at the game.
Speaker 3: So that is kind of my background on it.
Speaker 1: So yeah, a similar story for me as well. I
Speaker 1: grew up in Northwest Ohio, which if you're not from there,
Speaker 1: it's there's a lot of Michigan fans there. Didn't have
Speaker 1: a bunch of Michigan fans growing up in the schools,
Speaker 1: you know, when I was going to school, but you
Speaker 1: can always tell who they were in terms of the kids.
Speaker 1: The counter not counterculture, but as you said, like the
Speaker 1: rebelling against you against whatever the family or the local
Speaker 1: school is. So they were those those kinds of people
Speaker 1: where it's they don't even really care.
Speaker 3: They didn't know either, Yeah, never right at.
Speaker 4: One hundred percent.
Speaker 1: They just did it kind of for a reaction, and
Speaker 1: so you couldn't even really necessarily engage with them, but
Speaker 1: they'd love to engage with you after a Michigan win,
Speaker 1: believe me. And uh, it was always just like the
Speaker 1: challenge would be like, name five players, give me five
Speaker 1: people on your team that you know, and then you know,
Speaker 1: they would have like a quarterback and then somebody maybe
Speaker 1: somebody else and you'd be like, no, that guy stars
Speaker 1: on days of our lives. You're just throwing names out.
Speaker 1: But then you know, you grow up and you grow
Speaker 1: through it and it just becomes a part of you.
Speaker 1: And it's like I I remember I didn't watch all
Speaker 1: of the games, even when I was well aware of it,
Speaker 1: because they weren't all great to watch because this was
Speaker 1: the you know, the late eighties where Ohio State was
Speaker 1: not doing so well with them. But we'd have the
Speaker 1: game on and you know, we'd go out and play
Speaker 1: football and then come back and see what the score
Speaker 1: was and be like, let's go back out. Let's I've
Speaker 1: seen enough already, but then you know, you get to
Speaker 1: college and it just or you grow up and you
Speaker 1: get older, and then it's just the thing that you
Speaker 1: you get.
Speaker 4: To experience every year.
Speaker 1: And Jim Tressel brought a lot of happy years to
Speaker 1: a lot of people and somewhat continued, but there's some
Speaker 1: angst to going gone to the last few years. And
Speaker 1: so with all of this rivalry talk, I wanted us
Speaker 1: to go ahead and kind of list some rivalry killers
Speaker 1: in this and I'm I've tasked you with coming up
Speaker 1: with the wolverine killers from Ohio State. I guess you know,
Speaker 1: whether this is a that that you've seen your lifetime,
Speaker 1: give me a name on your list that immediately comes
Speaker 1: to mind, or that major list.
Speaker 2: So you know, sometimes when we do this, you come
Speaker 2: up with a formula, and you know, I've got so
Speaker 2: many memories it's tough for me to break this down.
Speaker 2: So I decided, why don't I go with a formula,
Speaker 2: and I put one together.
Speaker 3: So forty percent of the grade. Number one is wins.
Speaker 2: You got to win the game, because you know, we've
Speaker 2: seen some amazing performances against them, but in a losing effort,
Speaker 2: it's just hard to take much away from it other than,
Speaker 2: you know, a great individual performance, but it didn't didn't
Speaker 2: do much in the end, and I was miserable for
Speaker 2: a whole year after it, So how much could.
Speaker 3: I really have enjoyed it?
Speaker 2: So so forty percent win, twenty five percent individual production,
Speaker 2: twenty five percent importanance in magnitude of maybe the signature
Speaker 2: play you might have made during the game, and then
Speaker 2: ten percent for me is an Ohio bonus. Did you
Speaker 2: play high school football in Ohio? Because that, to me
Speaker 2: makes just the cut above there, and my number five
Speaker 2: guy on my list does not even reach that threshold.
Speaker 2: A Texas high school football player who was three and
Speaker 2: zero against Michigan, and that is JK. Dobbins and Ohio
Speaker 2: State won by a combined score of one forty nine
Speaker 2: to seventy seven, and his three wins first two performances solid.
Speaker 2: Third one was amazing two hundred eleven yards, four touchdowns
Speaker 2: fifty six to twenty seven, whooping at kind of the
Speaker 2: height of the absolute drubbings, and he was lost to shoe.
Speaker 3: I got a shore ripped off, but a.
Speaker 2: Total Michigan killer in the big House with four touchdowns,
Speaker 2: and that one was one that really stands out in
Speaker 2: some games that just kind of stand out for you
Speaker 2: know those games For me, Tony, they're not enjoyable experiences.
Speaker 3: They never have been.
Speaker 2: It's the longest game of the year every year. I
Speaker 2: can't wait for it to end because I just want
Speaker 2: the result. And it is the lead ups like that.
Speaker 2: Like playing a game at night, Yeah, it'd be cool,
Speaker 2: but I'm not waiting all day.
Speaker 3: I can't deal with that anxiety.
Speaker 2: So let's play at noon and let's make the clock
Speaker 2: go as fast as possible.
Speaker 3: Like that's the way I enjoy that game. The faster
Speaker 3: the better.
Speaker 2: And when the Buckeyes can win that game big, it
Speaker 2: make me feel at ease like JK did that year.
Speaker 2: You get extra bonus points, so I got JK number five.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and two catches for forty nine yards in that
Speaker 1: game as well. I did not put a formula together
Speaker 1: for the other side of this because I felt if
Speaker 1: I spent too much time on it, people would get angry.
Speaker 1: So but I think and frankly, it was difficult to
Speaker 1: find five guys because I know people will say, well,
Speaker 1: you know Desmond Howard this, and Dosmon Howard. Then it's
Speaker 1: like he had a punt return in a game that
Speaker 1: Michigan was leading, in the second quarter of a game
Speaker 1: that Michigan was leading that they ended up winning comfortably.
Speaker 1: So like, other than that, he didn't really do much.
Speaker 1: I was thinking, like what about Like Will Johnson had
Speaker 1: a good game against Marvin Harrison, but that was about it.
Speaker 1: The number five, I don't even have a number five
Speaker 1: because the Donovan Edwards, for instance, everybody talks about Donovan
Speaker 1: Edwards in the career that he had against Ohio State.
Speaker 1: In his Ohio State career, he did rush for two
Speaker 1: hundred and sixty six yards. One hundred and sixty of
Speaker 1: those came on two carries at the end of the
Speaker 1: one of those games, and his other thirty five carries
Speaker 1: went for one hundred and six yards. So like the
Speaker 1: rest of his career against Ohio State, outside of those
Speaker 1: two carries went for three yards. And I'm saying all
Speaker 1: of that to say, I'm gonna put Brian Greasy number
Speaker 1: five because to me, he was always in my day
Speaker 1: in my college days, it felt like he was the
Speaker 1: guy that would come in and save Michigan or just
Speaker 1: keep Michigan on top while they had their quarterback rotation
Speaker 1: with like I don't know Scott drys Back or whomever,
Speaker 1: but I just remember after I graduated thinking Brian Greasy, like,
Speaker 1: how do you just having this feeling? Like like Brian
Speaker 1: Greasey was just so annoying growing up in this because
Speaker 1: like he wasn't great, he was just good enough, and
Speaker 1: he was good against Ohio State.
Speaker 4: At times, he.
Speaker 2: Was so annoying listening to his dad call his games
Speaker 2: and call him Brian like Brian, I mean, it was
Speaker 2: so flipping annoying, dude, I couldn't stand it. That was
Speaker 2: something that really that became a thing at school with
Speaker 2: me and my buddies, Brian Bryan. But yeah, you know
Speaker 2: the thing is when we talk about big plays, man,
Speaker 2: because the Donovan Edwards thing, like I would to guess
Speaker 2: that Tony, I'd have thought that he had much better
Speaker 2: aside from those big runs, because those big plays in
Speaker 2: that game stand out so much and they mean so
Speaker 2: much in that game that it certainly feels to me
Speaker 2: like Donovan Edwards just had a great, great time against
Speaker 2: Ohio State, but thirty five carries for one hundred and
Speaker 2: six yards not so much. Moving on to number four
Speaker 2: for me, a Missouri running back Ezekiel Elliott Ezekiel Elliott
Speaker 2: three to zero against Michigan twenty fourteen, Buckeyes in the
Speaker 2: lead in the second half, but it's close and forty
Speaker 2: four yarder to make it forty two to twenty eight
Speaker 2: effectively in the game. And then in twenty fifteen, coming
Speaker 2: off of the Sparta game where he'd not get the ball,
Speaker 2: the loss, it was horrible, just a gut wrenching week
Speaker 2: and leading into that game, which you know, I think
Speaker 2: everybody felt Ohio State was going to win and win big,
Speaker 2: and you know, he he kind of went nuts that game,
Speaker 2: thirty carries over two hundred yards and uh and they
Speaker 2: and they beat him down. But Zeke coming off that
Speaker 2: game with the attitude that he had, that was that
Speaker 2: was an especially uh you know, there's like the season
Speaker 2: is over, which is what it was back then, and
Speaker 2: it was just a cathartic victory. And that's one that
Speaker 2: stands out that I'll remember a lot.
Speaker 4: And that was a pick them.
Speaker 1: The line on that one was even and they went
Speaker 1: in and you know, went to Michigan won forty two thirteen.
Speaker 1: And that that fourteen to twenty fourteen game when Cardale
Speaker 1: Jones comes in and it's a one score game and
Speaker 1: people are a little bit nervous, and then, as you said,
Speaker 1: Ezekiel Elliott breaks it for forty two or forty four
Speaker 1: yards and ends the game like, yeah, I can if
Speaker 1: he's only if he's only fourth on this list, sounds
Speaker 1: like a pretty good list. I wonder, I wonder who
Speaker 1: could ever be number one on this list? Gosh, I
Speaker 1: have no idea da who it might be the fourth
Speaker 1: guy on my list. I'm gonna go ahead, And the
Speaker 1: problem with this list is that so many of these
Speaker 1: guys just did it one year, and whereas you're you're
Speaker 1: you're throwing out the two guys that you've got so
Speaker 1: far did it two years and three years. And I'm
Speaker 1: gonna go with I guess I'll go with Chris Perry,
Speaker 1: who in two thousand and three just thirty one carries
Speaker 1: one hundred and fifty four yards, two touchdowns, five catches
Speaker 1: fifty five yards, and after every carry would get up
Speaker 1: like he is just like he's on death's door and
Speaker 1: he's on his last leg, and he would.
Speaker 3: Just help me up.
Speaker 1: Like you remember watching the offensive lineman carry and Byron
Speaker 1: Leftwich from snap to snap, it was basically like that,
Speaker 1: Like full back picking them up and then a left
Speaker 1: tackle picking him up, and then he'd, you know, he'd
Speaker 1: go ahead and get the ball and run for seven
Speaker 1: more yards and drop down and they'd have to come
Speaker 1: out and resuscitate it and clear and then he carry
Speaker 1: the ball again. It's like, once they come out and
Speaker 1: they put the paddles to you, you should have to
Speaker 1: miss a snap. Yeah, and he never did. And just
Speaker 1: it was a one year thing. But man two thousand
Speaker 1: and three to kind of end the Jim Trussel run
Speaker 1: of two years and just remind people that Michigan is
Speaker 1: still here. They've not gone away quite yet, though they
Speaker 1: would go away after that.
Speaker 3: That's a good one. That dude was so annoying.
Speaker 2: We'll go to my number three, my personal favorite Ohio
Speaker 2: state running back of all time. And I came with
Speaker 2: a lot of running backs here in my list because
Speaker 2: apparently my formula really liked running backs. But this running
Speaker 2: back from my city such a skinny young fella that
Speaker 2: he was nicknamed string Bean by his older brother, Chris.
Speaker 2: Beanie Wells number twenty eight for the Buckeyes three and
Speaker 2: zero against Michigan. Obviously he gets that ten percent Ohio
Speaker 2: High School bonus, a Garfield legend of high school that
Speaker 2: no longer exists here in Akron. Beannie was built for
Speaker 2: this rivalry and he was just one of those dudes.
Speaker 2: It's more physical as the game goes on that run.
Speaker 2: As a freshman, that fifty two yarder was to me.
Speaker 2: You know, sometimes you have plays in this rivalry where
Speaker 2: it's a young guy that is just gets you so
Speaker 2: excited for the rest of his career. And when he
Speaker 2: popped that one, it was like, we got a star.
Speaker 2: We got a star. And to this day, I think
Speaker 2: he is maybe the least talked about, most underrated Ohio
Speaker 2: state back. So Beannie definitely number three on my list,
Speaker 2: thirty nine for two twenty two and a couple of
Speaker 2: touchdowns I think in two thousand and seven and the
Speaker 2: following year another.
Speaker 3: One hundred yarder.
Speaker 2: Just just a total Michigan killer. He was such a load,
Speaker 2: he was so nimble on it, his fees so fun
Speaker 2: to watch, and he was a.
Speaker 3: Bad, bad dude.
Speaker 1: Man.
Speaker 3: You didn't want any of him.
Speaker 4: That two thousand and six run.
Speaker 1: I remember watching it at a buddy's house and you know,
Speaker 1: probably eight or ten of us in the room and
Speaker 1: he makes that spin move and he takes off and
Speaker 1: the place just goes crazy because to me, I've wrote it.
Speaker 1: I wrote it at the time for the Ozone. It's like,
Speaker 1: I think, I think that's the greatest run I've ever
Speaker 1: seen because it just it came out of nowhere. He
Speaker 1: made a guy miss, it's a huge game, gets to
Speaker 1: the end zone, and that was we all knew he
Speaker 1: was going to be really, really, really good. He was
Speaker 1: a five star running back one in the country. Yeah, right,
Speaker 1: and I mean like beyond prototypical size, right, he's like
Speaker 1: six two two twenty five and and looked I remember
Speaker 1: the first time I talked to him, and it's like
Speaker 1: he looked like a defensive end basically.
Speaker 3: Tony and Tony, you were not looking up at him.
Speaker 4: Well, no, you're right, No, you're right. But maybe he
Speaker 4: had cleats on Tony's sixty five. If you guys do know.
Speaker 1: Bigger than life, Beaty wells. I know he's not going
Speaker 1: to make your list, but I never will. Mention to
Speaker 1: Antonio Pittman, Oh yeah, for sealing the game in two
Speaker 1: thousand and five, for going over one hundred yards in
Speaker 1: two thousand and six, another very underrated dude.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and I'll.
Speaker 1: Stop saying running backs in case one of them makes
Speaker 1: your list that you still have yet to go my
Speaker 1: number three, I guess I will go with I'm gonna
Speaker 1: go with Jim Harball here, and I don't have all
Speaker 1: of his numbers.
Speaker 4: I just know he predicted a win. Played well enough.
Speaker 1: It's like back in those days, you complete eight of
Speaker 1: seventeen passes and you rush for forty two yards and
Speaker 1: you manage the game and you do well enough.
Speaker 4: And he was he was just a pain.
Speaker 1: He was annoying, he was he was mobile, and he
Speaker 1: also I forget what year it was, it was an
Speaker 1: Ohio stadium. There was a rule back then that if
Speaker 1: the crowd was too loud, there would be a flag
Speaker 1: thrown if the quarterback couldn't if the players couldn't hear
Speaker 1: the quarterback, they would you get the layup game. And
Speaker 1: then after that there'd be like five yards. I don't
Speaker 1: I could have should have gone back and looked at
Speaker 1: the box court to see how many times this was called.
Speaker 1: It felt like felt like three or four. But of
Speaker 1: course the Ohio State crowd is going to be going
Speaker 1: crazy and loud, and then Jim Harbar was like, you
Speaker 1: know everybody's like, can't hear, can't hear throw the flag?
Speaker 1: Come on, what are we doing?
Speaker 4: You know?
Speaker 1: So like that sort of stuff, it's almost like there almost,
Speaker 1: I mean, it just it seems hmm. We hadn't really
Speaker 1: thought about that, but you might be onto something there.
Speaker 1: But Jim Harbor number three on that list, I.
Speaker 2: Don't know if the audience is gonna like that selection, Tony.
Speaker 2: My number two is look four and oh against Michigan
Speaker 2: was mister J. T.
Speaker 4: Barrett. And as a.
Speaker 2: Quarterback, a pure quarterback, you know, I was certainly in
Speaker 2: the camp towards the end of his career that I
Speaker 2: was ready to get.
Speaker 3: I wanted to be a change. I wanted to see
Speaker 3: some change.
Speaker 2: But you can't take away from him that he was
Speaker 2: the quarterback of those teams. And even though he struggled
Speaker 2: mightily in twenty sixteen, like one hundred and I don't know,
Speaker 2: one hundred and five yards passing or something, it was
Speaker 2: just not good, you know, he also had some good
Speaker 2: ones too, led the Buckeyes to a comeback in twenty seventeen,
Speaker 2: and the four and oh is four and oh and
Speaker 2: obviously a great, great great buck guy, great leader. So
Speaker 2: I got him at number two. Yeah, this is one
Speaker 2: that he was. He was tough.
Speaker 1: He went into that twenty seventeen game with a knee
Speaker 1: that kept popping out, and and he just kept playing
Speaker 1: until he could no longer play. And it's it was
Speaker 1: so funny. It's hilarious to watch his knee pop out.
Speaker 1: But like the last time it happens, it's like he's
Speaker 1: getting up and he's trying to put it back in,
Speaker 1: trying to put it back in, and he's like, it's
Speaker 1: not going back in. And the fact that he was
Speaker 1: going to put it in and then just stay out
Speaker 1: there is a testament to his will to win, his toughness,
Speaker 1: his pain threshold, and of course his desire.
Speaker 4: To beat Michigan.
Speaker 1: And he had some very very good games, very big
Speaker 1: plays against Michigan. And but like you said, if you're
Speaker 1: around for so long, eventually you know you kind of
Speaker 1: I don't want to say outgrow, You're welcome, but it's like, really,
Speaker 1: people want to see something new, and they kept seeing
Speaker 1: the same thing with JT. Barry, and all it did
Speaker 1: was as you said, four and oh against Michigan.
Speaker 4: Oh hum.
Speaker 1: Another honorable mention shout out to Carlos Hyde who had
Speaker 1: two really good games against Michigan. Did he make your
Speaker 1: anywhere on your top ten list or anything like that,
Speaker 1: or he.
Speaker 2: Was in my honorable mentions, which I have a few, Okay,
Speaker 2: but yeah, I'm with you, definitely with Los And also
Speaker 2: what a really really fun underrated Ohio State running back.
Speaker 1: For sure that we'll eventually do a show on that
Speaker 1: the underrated running backs or underrated players, because man, there's
Speaker 1: been a lot of good ones. Oh yeah, we're just
Speaker 1: talking about one on the Buckey Insiders board the other
Speaker 1: day about Raymond Harris, number thirty four, Carlos Hide number
Speaker 1: thirty four as well. The number two player, Yeah, the
Speaker 1: number two player on my list is tim Biakabatuca. I
Speaker 1: was there for this one. Three hundred and thirteen Russia,
Speaker 1: three hundred thirteen yards on thirty seven carries, one touchdown,
Speaker 1: and it was just just relentless. And it's not like
Speaker 1: there's a bunch of fifty yarders. There was just you know,
Speaker 1: a twelve yard or a thirteen yard, or a seven yard er,
Speaker 1: an eight yard or a nine yard. It was like
Speaker 1: imagine watching the two thousand and seven Illinois game and
Speaker 1: Juice Williams just keeps picking up every like thirty seven times,
Speaker 1: Juice Williams, That's what this felt like. And I was
Speaker 1: in the in the end zone for this one as
Speaker 1: a student with other Ohio State students, and we're just
Speaker 1: just kept watching Tim Biakabatuca. It seemed like every every
Speaker 1: drive was coming our way and you just it's like there.
Speaker 4: Was nobody ever in front of him. It's like what
Speaker 4: the world is going on?
Speaker 1: That one was a frustrating one, but again another just
Speaker 1: kind of one hit wonder.
Speaker 2: I mean not only like a one hit wonder, but
Speaker 2: like I remember being like, who is this guy?
Speaker 3: I don't even know this guy?
Speaker 2: And it's one thing when you gear up for the
Speaker 2: game and you know, you know who their star players are,
Speaker 2: and you're like, well, how are we gonna stop Desmond?
Speaker 3: You know what I mean? Like, who is it? Dude?
Speaker 3: How do you say his name? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Man, that was that was a tough watch, buddy. That
Speaker 2: was one of those where you're just like a fire
Speaker 2: everybody you all need to be fired, like you're.
Speaker 3: All gone, But tough tough one there.
Speaker 2: Obviously, everybody knows who Number one is, and I think
Speaker 2: that the fact that everybody knows who Number one is
Speaker 2: is so incredible in the history of this rival that
Speaker 2: there somehow is a guy who is a definitive, unarguable
Speaker 2: number one. Like that is what makes Troy Smith so
Speaker 2: incredible and you know, the ultimate Michigan Killer. I don't
Speaker 2: know if we'll ever see anything like it. The era
Speaker 2: that it happened plays so much into it, kind of
Speaker 2: like retaking the dominance over in the rivalry.
Speaker 3: The the ball.
Speaker 2: Stampede, Like when you see that in your head, it's
Speaker 2: just like chills. Obviously, we could run down his accomplishments.
Speaker 2: We all know what he did and they were just
Speaker 2: huge stakes games as well, like you know, the stakes
Speaker 2: of the games, the era that it took place in.
Speaker 2: You got the bonus Ohio football player in my stats.
Speaker 2: I mean it had everything. It had, It had theatric plays,
Speaker 2: it had it all and just amazing, amazing stuff.
Speaker 1: How far away, Like how much of a lead did
Speaker 1: he have over number two?
Speaker 2: Huge for me for me, like personally, because you know,
Speaker 2: this was a lot of this was done. I don't
Speaker 2: know about you how you feel about this, but there
Speaker 2: are so many times when we've done lists like this,
Speaker 2: and I've done them before where J. T.
Speaker 3: Barrett, Like, for instance, we had j T.
Speaker 2: Barrett is the all time greatest player when we did
Speaker 2: a statistical thing in one.
Speaker 3: Of our stats. There are so many times when j T.
Speaker 2: Barret is like this reluctant tree on a list that
Speaker 2: I do. And it's not because I don't love the guy.
Speaker 2: I just don't think he was a great player. And
Speaker 2: there's so many great players that have played at Ohio State,
Speaker 2: great players, and.
Speaker 3: Troy Smith and j T.
Speaker 2: Barrett, to me, there's a there's a massive, massive gap
Speaker 2: between those two, even in their performances against Michigan and
Speaker 2: maybe in the I don't know the feel of those
Speaker 2: Obviously there was a couple of big, big, big ones
Speaker 2: for JT. But just just Troy's era and everything about
Speaker 2: it was it's unmatchable. It's unmatchable. But my first honorable
Speaker 2: mention would be Mike DAWs for a similar like the
Speaker 2: era and what in what was going on and the
Speaker 2: upset delivering on on Tressel's three hundred and ten days
Speaker 2: speech and uh and Dass was a just a mad
Speaker 2: dog that day, So Doss one of my honorable.
Speaker 1: Mentionsdrelle Pryor got to play against the two thousand and eight,
Speaker 1: two thousand and nine, twenty ten, Michigan Wolverine. So he
Speaker 1: had some good games. He was three and zero, but
Speaker 1: he played against rich Rod, so it doesn't really only
Speaker 1: count so much. But Troy Smith two thousand and four,
Speaker 1: first year as a starter, half a year as a starter,
Speaker 1: two hundred and forty one yards passing one hundred and
Speaker 1: forty five yards rushing, and magical two thousand and five
Speaker 1: brought them down from brought them back from nine to
Speaker 1: down and like within the last five minutes throws for
Speaker 1: three hundred yards, rushes for another thirty seven and a touchdown.
Speaker 1: Then two thousand and six, the Game of the century
Speaker 1: type thing, three hundred and sixteen yards passing four touchdowns
Speaker 1: and was just incredible. And that's why when we did
Speaker 1: our quarterback show, it surprised me that he finished number
Speaker 1: two for both of us, behind Justin Fields, if I recall,
Speaker 1: and it was because of the Michigan stuff. So like
Speaker 1: this stuff, this stuff carries weight. And just as there
Speaker 1: was a no doubter number one for Ohio State, there's
Speaker 1: a no doubter or number one for Michigan, and that's
Speaker 1: Charles Woodson, who even as a true freshman in nineteen
Speaker 1: ninety five, had an interception. He held Terry Glenn of
Speaker 1: four catches for seventy two yards long of twenty five
Speaker 1: and that was the year Terry Glenn won the Buleetnikoff
Speaker 1: like seventeen touchdowns fifteen hundred yards and basically held to
Speaker 1: half of his average in against Michigan. In that ninety
Speaker 1: five game, Woodson had two interceptions, seven tackles. In ninety six,
Speaker 1: he had nine tackles, held David Boston to three catches
Speaker 1: for sixty eight yards. One of those was a fifty
Speaker 1: six yarder. Actually that was ninety seven when Boston had
Speaker 1: that long catch and did the taunting, that was really
Speaker 1: the only play that he had. Woodson in that same
Speaker 1: game in ninety seven had a thirty seven yard catch,
Speaker 1: seventy eight yard punt return and also, oh yeah, an interception.
Speaker 4: So like he was three and zero.
Speaker 1: Again, it's Ohio State in ninety five, ninety six, ninety seven,
Speaker 1: Key and all of those games. And it's crazy that
Speaker 1: in ohioan so remove some of those bonus.
Speaker 3: Points negative ten bonus point.
Speaker 1: But the contrast between him and like Desmond Howard broad
Speaker 1: and broadcasting, I think is pretty star because I like
Speaker 1: Charles Woodson does not seem like a He's not trying
Speaker 1: to be a villain. He will be very matter of
Speaker 1: fact at times and it may not like it, but
Speaker 1: he's not playing a role. And he's one of the
Speaker 1: great villains in this rivalry. But also I think commands
Speaker 1: a lot of respect as well.
Speaker 3: I'd have to agree.
Speaker 2: I'd have to agree he's certainly not someone like when
Speaker 2: I think of him, hatred comes to mind. And as
Speaker 2: much as I try not to let like trolls get
Speaker 2: under my skin, man Desmon Howard does it every time.
Speaker 3: It just it really really works. It really really works.
Speaker 2: I mean it goes to like me whining to myself,
Speaker 2: like how does ESPN let him get away with this?
Speaker 3: You know what I mean?
Speaker 2: Like, uh so, yeah, totally agree, clear number one, no
Speaker 2: doubt about it.
Speaker 3: And I guess, I guess to my.
Speaker 2: Troy point, it's it's double crazy. There's a definitive number
Speaker 2: one on both sides. Yeah, that is really that's really
Speaker 2: wild for all the great players on both sides of
Speaker 2: it that have come through.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 2: What is no surprise, of course, is that both of
Speaker 2: them are from Ohio. Like, that's not a surprise at all.
Speaker 3: Yeah, no doubt about that. How about Chick Harley for
Speaker 3: an honorable honorable mention?
Speaker 2: Uh the the first Ohio state win and uh and
Speaker 2: the uh the compliment from from uh oh what the
Speaker 2: hell is this name? Tony, their their number, their first guy,
Speaker 2: not Fritz.
Speaker 3: Chrysler the other other one.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: There their first big time coach. I forget his name
Speaker 2: is escaping me. Came over into the locker room afterwards
Speaker 2: to tell them what a what a stud field ghost,
Speaker 2: fielding ghost, to tell everybody what a unbelievable player Chick
Speaker 2: Harley was in the Buckeyes first win, and that, you know,
Speaker 2: was one of the biggest games in school history, maybe
Speaker 2: the biggest game for certain to that point and probably
Speaker 2: stayed that way for a long time. So definitely an
Speaker 2: honorable mention to him as well as a j Hawk
Speaker 2: who was three and oh as a guy who was
Speaker 2: a starter in the game and had some big time
Speaker 2: games for sure, and then everything after that. You know,
Speaker 2: obviously a ton of one hit wonders that that you
Speaker 2: love their performance in that one year, but there's too
Speaker 2: many that had multi years to really put them up there.
Speaker 2: So big Vern, but big Vern up.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Michigan guy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, one of the few him and him and
Speaker 2: Crenzel that did.
Speaker 3: Did some work. So that's what I got.
Speaker 1: I will say in terms of the being annoyed by
Speaker 1: Dosen Howard, that's a feature, not a bug. That's kind
Speaker 1: of that's kind of the point. Moving to the present, then,
Speaker 1: we we spent some time with some Michigan players in
Speaker 1: Kyle Whittingham at Big Ten media days, So I'm wondering
Speaker 1: how you think the present tense of Michigan is going
Speaker 1: to go this year. I did think it was interesting
Speaker 1: Kyle Whittingham saying don't read too much into the spring
Speaker 1: game for Bryce Underwood because the offensive line was all
Speaker 1: mixed up, And I get that, and sure, and that's
Speaker 1: probably true, and we're not basing everything we see on
Speaker 1: a spring game. It's just it was it was disappointing
Speaker 1: that the guy that we saw in the spring was
Speaker 1: the same guy that we saw in the season. But
Speaker 1: when he says, you're going to see a lot of
Speaker 1: what we did with Devin damp here last year. Dampier,
Speaker 1: the quarterback at Utah, rushed for like eight hundred yards
Speaker 1: and they used him a lot in that way, and
Speaker 1: I don't know when you hear something like that, do
Speaker 1: you think that fits Bryce Underwood because he can run.
Speaker 4: But that's a lot of wear and tear.
Speaker 2: So we'll start with the spring game comment that he made.
Speaker 2: And I actually just did a whole show on those
Speaker 2: two Underwood and in winning him that I just got
Speaker 2: done recording because which I just had so many notes
Speaker 2: from the two of them, listened to them, and that
Speaker 2: one really stood out to me because Tony he brought
Speaker 2: it up. Nobody else brought it up. Nobody else said, boy,
Speaker 2: he really sucked in the spring game. Like he brought
Speaker 2: it up and said, look, I know this guy sucked
Speaker 2: in the spring game. But here's why the problem I have.
Speaker 2: And it's true. We obviously know the spring game. We've
Speaker 2: seen a ton of terrible performances from great players at
Speaker 2: Ohio State went on to have great seasons. The thing
Speaker 2: is when you finished the year the way he finished
Speaker 2: the year with a five to seven touchdown to interception ratio,
Speaker 2: with your feet all over the place but up underneath
Speaker 2: you when you're throwing the ball, and then we see
Speaker 2: you after spring with now your new staff and your
Speaker 2: quarterback coach, and.
Speaker 3: It looks the exact same.
Speaker 2: That's when I have to start to wonder, maybe there
Speaker 2: is more to this, And I just don't know how
Speaker 2: much I believe that this guy is a guy that
Speaker 2: is extremely fixable in his delivery and his mechanics and
Speaker 2: if it's not something that like, when things just aren't perfect,
Speaker 2: it just gets a little scrambled in his melon and
Speaker 2: he just you know, he's all over the.
Speaker 1: Place he he is, and the launch angles and the
Speaker 1: whether it's from, you know, and his shoulder angles, just
Speaker 1: things are all over the place. And you know, we
Speaker 1: didn't stay at a holiday in express, but it's like
Speaker 1: we've seen a lot of quarterbacks and what looks right
Speaker 1: and what doesn't and some of those passes.
Speaker 4: He's got a really strong arm, but the delivery.
Speaker 1: Will force some of those passes to float, and the
Speaker 1: accuracy is not there, and footwork is kind of wonky.
Speaker 1: But like I think, making him like a Devin Dampier,
Speaker 1: and Devin damp Pier runs about ten times a game,
Speaker 1: ten twelve times a game, that will certainly make him
Speaker 1: dangerous and he could absolutely put up you know, six
Speaker 1: to eight hundred yards rushing and throw for three thousand
Speaker 1: and twenty five hundred to three thousand.
Speaker 4: I just don't know if he wants.
Speaker 1: To do that in terms of that's how he views himself,
Speaker 1: because he certainly views himself as a passer first who
Speaker 1: can't run. But he ran about eighty sometimes last year
Speaker 1: for three, three or four hundred yards, so it's there.
Speaker 1: I just don't know if he wants to do that
Speaker 1: all game long, over the course of a season.
Speaker 3: I I would agree. I think that.
Speaker 2: I mean, if I'm winning him, that that's the best
Speaker 2: that's the best way to win for me is too.
Speaker 2: You know, Michigan fans were irritated about last year Sharon
Speaker 2: Moore kind of reining him in, not letting him go
Speaker 2: be a playmaker with his feet. He still ended up
Speaker 2: when he rushed for about four hundred yards, same as
Speaker 2: same as been and he should be rushing for more
Speaker 2: yards than Mendoza.
Speaker 3: So I think that if.
Speaker 2: I'm winning him, and boy, he's staunchly defended that that
Speaker 2: stance too, didn't he He was talking and saying, you know,
Speaker 2: if you're not running the quarterback, you're missing the boat
Speaker 2: talking plus one. I mean he sounded like Irvan twenty
Speaker 2: years ago. Yep uh, But you know, old habits die hard.
Speaker 2: I just don't know, and I do agree that Bryce
Speaker 2: sees himself as more of a pocket passer, but I
Speaker 2: think that's their best way to win, and if they can,
Speaker 2: if they can get eight hundred yards out of him
Speaker 2: and he stays healthy, I think they'd be pretty dangerous.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I agree, It's just defensive coordinators hate dealing with the
Speaker 1: quarterback that can run, and it's just one more thing
Speaker 1: to worry about. One of the things that Winningham said
Speaker 1: also that a good running game will help. Yeah, for sure,
Speaker 1: Rice under would a lot. And I like the pieces
Speaker 1: that they've got there with Jordan Marshall and Savean Hyder.
Speaker 1: I think that's a pretty good one two punch. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: it might be the best one two punch in the
Speaker 1: Big ten. I mean, you've been looking at the Big ten.
Speaker 1: Ohio State. We like the Bo Jackson and Isaiah West,
Speaker 1: but that one two punch in Michigan. I know Oregon
Speaker 1: likes theirs as well, and they've got they've got a
Speaker 1: different kind of one two punch with Jordan Davison and
Speaker 1: deer Hill. Yeah, deer Hill, who is lightning. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: think there's there's some good ones. Do you think where
Speaker 1: where is Michigan? Can they be that number one?
Speaker 4: One? Two?
Speaker 3: That's number one for me?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 2: I think Savian Heider is you know, we talk a
Speaker 2: lot about David Gabriel George recently, but to me, you know,
Speaker 2: I'd have taken David Gord's by by like I mean
Speaker 2: the I don't know the width of a dime over
Speaker 2: Savian Hider Like there, he is that good too, And
Speaker 2: that was a huge acquisition by Tony Alford. And Jordan
Speaker 2: Marshall is a college back that I didn't really see
Speaker 2: coming out of high school. I thought he'd be good.
Speaker 2: He's better than I thought he'd be. But the two
Speaker 2: of those guys together, that's a load and a half
Speaker 2: to deal with. Man, that is a load and a
Speaker 2: half to deal with. And then if you've got Bryce
Speaker 2: now also involved in the running game, I mean, this
Speaker 2: is just going to make the lanes and the winners
Speaker 2: and everything easier for him to throw the ball. And
Speaker 2: he can do it when there's not a whole lot
Speaker 2: going on, when things are like he needs it to
Speaker 2: be a little easier, I think. And now I think
Speaker 2: we're talking if they got an offensive line that's clicking
Speaker 2: a pretty dangerous, a pretty dangerous unit with obviously, and
Speaker 2: he's now got a quarterback coach. Okay, he's got Koy
Speaker 2: Detmer coaching him. This is a huge, huge thing compared
Speaker 2: to let's be honest, Tony. I mean, I just now
Speaker 2: after all this, looking back, like I thought it at
Speaker 2: the time that the coaching staff at Michigan under Searan
Speaker 2: Moore was such a huge drop back from Jim Harbaugh,
Speaker 2: But now I almost think it was totally incompetent. And
Speaker 2: we really looked at this kid as a freshman playing
Speaker 2: without a quarterbacks coach a thirteen million It's crazy to me,
Speaker 2: when was he getting instruction, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3: So with this now I think that.
Speaker 2: It's just so much that it's just got to be
Speaker 2: you know, when we look at the talent and the roster,
Speaker 2: we are now seeing how much of a difference coaches
Speaker 2: make when they come in and the roster's talented, how
Speaker 2: much they can really turn it around faster, improve it fast,
Speaker 2: like faster than we've ever seen. So I think we
Speaker 2: could really see a pretty a pretty powerful offense out
Speaker 2: of them this year potentially.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and they're still trying to find their five best
Speaker 1: offensive linemen, and Winningham said they've got nine or ten
Speaker 1: guys that they think can do it, and one of
Speaker 1: those guys will be Andrew Babalola, the freshman who was
Speaker 1: hurt last year. But they really really like in terms of,
Speaker 1: you know, how is he learning to play quarterback? You
Speaker 1: can watch things and learn anything on YouTube. Now they
Speaker 1: change the light bulb, fix a flat play quarterback. And
Speaker 1: then you said you didn't see Jordan Marshall coming. You
Speaker 1: didn't see that happening. Neither did Tony Alfred or else.
Speaker 1: He probably would have recruited him harder at Ohio State,
Speaker 1: So you know, fortunate there. Receiver wise, Andrew marsh is great.
Speaker 1: I think he's gonna be a thousand yard receiver. JJ
Speaker 1: B Caannon that they got from Utah is six three
Speaker 1: two fifteen hybrid receiver tight end that I think could
Speaker 1: do a lot of damage in the slot, kind of
Speaker 1: like Colston Loveland did for them. Jamie French comes over
Speaker 1: from Texas, hasn't done anything yet, so it's like I
Speaker 1: kind of view him. I get like Milon Graham basically,
Speaker 1: where it's you know, there's recruiting rankings and potential and
Speaker 1: Notre Dame's excited about him. Ohio State wanted him back
Speaker 1: at a price. Texas had to let some people go.
Speaker 1: But I'm not expecting much from Jamie French this year.
Speaker 1: I think the other two guys that I mentioned are
Speaker 1: going to be pretty darn good.
Speaker 2: Though, with you on the other two, Jamie French, to me,
Speaker 2: Man is a knucklehead and I don't see him ever
Speaker 2: doing much of anything.
Speaker 3: So no, I'm not seeing that.
Speaker 2: By the way, Bryce's best friend, he said, is Jamie French,
Speaker 2: So it all just kind of nits for me.
Speaker 1: All well, I mean, if your best friend is the quarterback,
Speaker 1: maybe you will be more busy as a receiver.
Speaker 4: It's not a bad thing.
Speaker 1: Defensively, Kyle Whatdingham talked about the defensive line that he likes.
Speaker 1: He's got five defensive ends and defensive he said, yeah, Well,
Speaker 1: I mean like Carter Meadows, who just us five star
Speaker 1: defensive end, just came in in June and they think
Speaker 1: he can play right away. It's rare for a guy
Speaker 1: to come in late and then be somebody that plays
Speaker 1: right away. J T tw a Moloau did it. Maybe
Speaker 1: Carter Meadows will do it, and he might be starting
Speaker 1: out as their number five guy John Henry Daily coming
Speaker 1: back coming over from Utah following an achilles tear last year.
Speaker 4: Is he can to be.
Speaker 1: Going on right away. Generally people don't. But they've got
Speaker 1: other guys. The defensive line seems like they've always always
Speaker 1: got guys. It's when they're special. And when they're special,
Speaker 1: you know, really good is when they have NFL first rounders,
Speaker 1: and too early to know if they've got those this year.
Speaker 3: For me, yeah, i'd say, I'd say I'm with you.
Speaker 2: I think that, uh, I would lean towards John Henter
Speaker 2: Daily is a pretty impactful guy this year. But you know,
Speaker 2: when we're talking about an injury like that, it's just
Speaker 2: a guess.
Speaker 3: You know, we just don't know.
Speaker 2: But a hell of a competitor and uh he's an
Speaker 2: incredibly strong, super competitive, all the stuff man, all the things.
Speaker 2: He's got, all the right stuff. I would love if
Speaker 2: he was a Buckeye. But they got one in him.
Speaker 2: And then Carter come in he said he's up to
Speaker 2: two fifty five now and he's a pretty pretty special
Speaker 2: specimen of a dude. Obviously, the Buck guys missing out
Speaker 2: on that recruitment and Luke Wayful within a month of
Speaker 2: each other, which was a big, a big deal and
Speaker 2: a lot of talk as he goes to Michigan, wayful
Speaker 2: to USC and the buck guys get them back in
Speaker 2: the class of twenty twenty seven.
Speaker 3: But we're looking at some really.
Speaker 2: Powerful, top tier edge rushers coming into the Big Ten
Speaker 2: that I don't think we're used to seeing these kinds
Speaker 2: come to the Big Ten. As Oregon brings in Rashad
Speaker 2: Streets as well, Like we've got some some of the
Speaker 2: dudes we're used to seeing, like playing at Alabama and
Speaker 2: Georgia now in the Big Ten.
Speaker 3: And it's pretty interesting.
Speaker 1: You know the back seven or back six or how
Speaker 1: in back seven, back eight for Michigan, they've got new linebackers,
Speaker 1: Troy Bowles returns. Yeah, they've got some transfers coming in
Speaker 1: and they've got a corner. They've got the returning corners.
Speaker 4: They bring in.
Speaker 1: A corner from from Utah to maybe be the the
Speaker 1: nickel a little bit. The safety's Rod more should be
Speaker 1: should is good to go. Rod Morrison. He's feeling better
Speaker 1: than he has in years. But as Kyle Whittingham said,
Speaker 1: that's a relative term. Bring in another treat transfer safety.
Speaker 1: They've got a lot of transfers and not from big
Speaker 1: schools per se, from smaller schools that they're going to
Speaker 1: be relying on this year in the back end of
Speaker 1: their defense. And I've never been blown away by jay
Speaker 1: Ra Hill or Zeke Barry at corner. Jerry Hill's good.
Speaker 1: He's not Will Johnson. He's not like some of the
Speaker 1: really good corners of the past. In my opinion, Like,
Speaker 1: I don't know that there's much to make of their defense.
Speaker 1: And the name escapes me of the nickel that they
Speaker 1: brought over from Utah. But he ranked like uh bottom
Speaker 1: ten PFF and miss tackle right like last year. So
Speaker 1: that's something that he's got to get better at. Like overall,
Speaker 1: I think it starts up front, and if everything's good upfront,
Speaker 1: that's great. The back the back of the defense, I
Speaker 1: just you know, I'm very very much wait and see.
Speaker 3: I feel the same.
Speaker 2: The linebackers is where I'd be probably most concerned. I
Speaker 2: don't I don't see a whole lot of anything. Like
Speaker 2: they're talking about Nathaniel Ewosa Battang, who was you know,
Speaker 2: in last year's class, being a guy that I think
Speaker 2: that the Michigan fans voted him like they did a
Speaker 2: thing where they said who's the most important player of
Speaker 2: the year at two four seven on the Michigan site,
Speaker 2: and he was number fifteen ahead of all the rest
Speaker 2: of their linebackers.
Speaker 3: He had played seventy snaps last year. Yeah, I mean bulls.
Speaker 2: Todd Bowle's son, like he was a really good recruit,
Speaker 2: went to Georgia, was not good and didn't fit in
Speaker 2: at Georgia and before he transferred to Michigan, Like, I
Speaker 2: just don't see a whole lot of anything at linebacker.
Speaker 1: No, and they're gonna play a bunch of four two
Speaker 1: five and Ope and the nickel back that I have
Speaker 1: trouble with Smith Snowden coming over from Utah when there's
Speaker 1: just like not a lot returning and like I said,
Speaker 1: just some smaller school guys coming in and certainly some
Speaker 1: questions there special teams.
Speaker 4: Who knows.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm sure they'll be fine, but some questions about
Speaker 1: the Michigan defense. I do think they the offense, they
Speaker 1: could just lean on that running game and.
Speaker 4: Open it up through play action.
Speaker 1: So that would be interesting to watch the schedule, though,
Speaker 1: you know, road games at Ohio State and Oregon seem
Speaker 1: like those should be two losses. I see Oregon beating
Speaker 1: them in ann Arbor, that's three losses. They could perhaps
Speaker 1: beat Oklahoma, they should beat Oklahoma. But I'm really interested
Speaker 1: to see what happens when Indiana comes to town because
Speaker 1: that one, that one will basically tell me as Indiana
Speaker 1: surpassed Michigan for the foreseeable future, or was just are
Speaker 1: they on the same level?
Speaker 2: Such an interesting game. I felt the same way as
Speaker 2: I was just talking about this, Like I said, like
Speaker 2: that one right there represents so much more than just game.
Speaker 2: If they I mean, if Indiana could go into there
Speaker 2: and beat them, it almost feels like a bit of
Speaker 2: a changing of the guard in the order of supremacy
Speaker 2: in the Big Ten.
Speaker 3: So they're obviously going to be scrapping for it.
Speaker 2: Do they get one win between their big four games
Speaker 2: of Oklahoma, Indiana at Oregon, at Ohio State.
Speaker 3: Can they win one of those?
Speaker 2: For if they do, they can go nine and three
Speaker 2: and be a bubble team. If they can't, or they
Speaker 2: can't win those other games that they should, that they'll
Speaker 2: they'll be favored in the rest of them. Then I
Speaker 2: think it's a very unsuccessful first year after a nine
Speaker 2: and three season with a horrific coaching staff.
Speaker 1: Well, and really the most likely win is Oklahoma, which
Speaker 1: probably does the least for them in the playoff picture.
Speaker 1: They'd want to win against one of the Big ten
Speaker 1: teams that are going to be more likely to be
Speaker 1: in the playoffs. I do think that might be a
Speaker 1: little bit of a shootout with Oklahoma John Mattier running
Speaker 1: around and doing his thing and Bryce Underwood running around
Speaker 1: doing his thing. Gotta be a fun one, but I
Speaker 1: don't know how much we will be watching it as
Speaker 1: we're getting ready for the Texas game. Yeah, moving moving
Speaker 1: to the recruiting side of things, the future of Michigan football.
Speaker 1: You've got Kyle Whittingham having to do something that he's
Speaker 1: never done, and that's recruit at a high level. I mean,
Speaker 1: and be expected to recruit at a high level. And
Speaker 1: he's a nice guy and all of this and money
Speaker 1: can do a lot for you, and then we know
Speaker 1: that for sure, But you're not in Utah anymore. You
Speaker 1: can't operate like you're in Utah. You can't also just
Speaker 1: let the money can and happen because you still have
Speaker 1: to build relationships. So you've got some holdovers and you've
Speaker 1: got some you know, from the assistant coaches, and you've
Speaker 1: got new assistant coaches. But overall, like this is a
Speaker 1: class that he's inherited, essentially twenty twenty seven class, and
Speaker 1: it's not great. I think like eighteenth right now. But
Speaker 1: he has to do something like I said, he's never
Speaker 1: done before, and it's he's operated on development and talent recognition.
Speaker 1: Like I see this guy and in four years he'll
Speaker 1: be able to play. You can't do that. There's no
Speaker 1: four years he'll be able to play. You've got to
Speaker 1: find guys and go get guys and work hard to
Speaker 1: go get them. And this is a head coach who
Speaker 1: stepped away, and so now it's like you've got to
Speaker 1: restart it.
Speaker 4: Is it still there? Is he ready to go?
Speaker 1: We know he's he's younger than his age, I'll say that,
Speaker 1: but also can he keep up with everybody in all
Speaker 1: of the ways that need keeping up.
Speaker 2: I gotta tell you, Tony, when he said the other
Speaker 2: day that he was so re energized, I mean, I'm
Speaker 2: just like this guy was reminding me of like the
Speaker 2: Joe Biden memes, Like I what was he like before
Speaker 2: he was re energized. I don't know, but he's always
Speaker 2: been kind of chill.
Speaker 3: I get that.
Speaker 2: But when I look at whitting him, and I look
Speaker 2: at the last five years, like they've played BYU three times,
Speaker 2: lost all three times to BYU in four of those
Speaker 2: five years. The first four lost twenty total games in
Speaker 2: those four years. Three of them or four of them,
Speaker 2: they were all in the PAC twelve. Then in the
Speaker 2: Big twelve, No, three of them were in the Pac twelve.
Speaker 2: Then in the Big twelve the first year they lost
Speaker 2: seven games. Then last year the only one of those
Speaker 2: five years out of the last five that they had
Speaker 2: a good year was last year. So like, what Kyle
Speaker 2: Whittingham are we talking about here? What Kyle Whittingham program
Speaker 2: were talking about? Here?
Speaker 3: Were talking about peak.
Speaker 2: Kyle Whittingham, because he has not been that in the
Speaker 2: past five years. And what have we been dealing with
Speaker 2: in the past five years. A whole different way of football, tone,
Speaker 2: a whole different way of roster construction. So I'm supposed
Speaker 2: to believe now he's gonna go up here and just
Speaker 2: get it all right. When he's doing something like he's
Speaker 2: never done before, I hesitate. I hesitate to see the
Speaker 2: roster construction coming together smoothly here and to your point,
Speaker 2: he's never recruited at a high level like this. You know,
Speaker 2: I look at him and I look at Matt cambll
Speaker 2: and I'm seeing a lot of the same. Like, you know,
Speaker 2: two top one hundred players at Michigan. That's not good enough, man,
Speaker 2: It's just not good enough. Like you need to be
Speaker 2: in the big time battles like the Carter Meadows, like
Speaker 2: the Saveingon Hyder. They're not in on any of them.
Speaker 2: Why is that, I don't know. I can't answer that question.
Speaker 2: But they got themselves a five star kicker committed in
Speaker 2: twenty twenty seven or twenty twenty eight, sorry at IMG
Speaker 2: big one for him.
Speaker 1: Well, and you look at the I think it's the
Speaker 1: twenty twenty seven class right now, and they've got two
Speaker 1: of the top ten players in Michigan committed in twenty
Speaker 1: twenty seven, which is the same number as Oregon. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and they've got two of the top eleven through twenty
Speaker 1: They've got two of those guys.
Speaker 4: And so this isn't about.
Speaker 1: A shallow state, a shallow class where it's like, well,
Speaker 1: of course, you know, sometimes there are only two of
Speaker 1: the top ten that you need in the state of Michigan.
Speaker 1: That's not necessarily the case this year, and so it's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: you've got to you understand, losing a head coach that's
Speaker 1: going to create issues with the recruiting class. So then
Speaker 1: he's got to pick up those pieces and not only
Speaker 1: just pick them up, but turn them into something that
Speaker 1: doesn't look like it's been glued together and taped together.
Speaker 1: It's like, you've got to make it. You've got to
Speaker 1: make it brand new. And I just I have concerns
Speaker 1: about that and his ability to do that. And when
Speaker 1: when you're Matt Campbell still recruiting like you're at Iowa State,
Speaker 1: if Kyle Whittingham does the same thing, it's gonna be
Speaker 1: a mistake. We were talking on the drive to Chicago
Speaker 1: or the drive back. Rich Rod did the same thing.
Speaker 1: He was recruiting like he was at West Virginia, and
Speaker 1: you can't do that or else. Those are the programs
Speaker 1: that you're going to be competing. If you're competing against
Speaker 1: them and recruiting, that's the level that you're going to
Speaker 1: be competing on the on the field, you're gonna be
Speaker 1: as good as those programs, and being Utah is not
Speaker 1: good enough in the Big Ten. If you're Michigan and
Speaker 1: being Iowa State, sure as hell not good enough in
Speaker 1: the Big ten if that's Penn State. And I'm with
Speaker 1: you both those guys I have concerns about. With winning him,
Speaker 1: it's like the best probably of a bad situation. But
Speaker 1: how long is he going to be around? What kind
Speaker 1: of transition does that then create? Is there a coach
Speaker 1: and waiting where that coach then does more in terms
Speaker 1: of the recruiting and the coach and coach and waiting
Speaker 1: never works? So do you avoid that entirely? Probably? And
Speaker 1: I'm sure I'm sure Kyle Whittingham wants nothing to do
Speaker 1: with the coach and waiting because he just came from
Speaker 1: one and exactly so the transition to him and then
Speaker 1: from him, if it's like all in the span of
Speaker 1: five or six years, you're talking about a bunch of
Speaker 1: classes that are going to be impacted by a questionable
Speaker 1: recruiting attack, and certainly one that's going to suffer from
Speaker 1: all of the changes.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I.
Speaker 2: Think what we're really gonna learn a lot next year,
Speaker 2: like the class of twenty twenty eight, like you said,
Speaker 2: like a lot of this that Hey was already in
Speaker 2: the barn a lot of the relationships were already made,
Speaker 2: and they did do a good job on a couple
Speaker 2: of guys close in. I think the interesting thing when
Speaker 2: we talk about money is how they really thought that
Speaker 2: the Larry Ellison Billions were just going to really be
Speaker 2: funding this roster from Bryce Underwood on and it feels
Speaker 2: like that was really just kind of a one time
Speaker 2: deal for him for his girlfriend was a shiny new quarterback.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you look at that twenty twenty eight class.
Speaker 1: You've got Donald to Brown, five star quarterback from Detroit
Speaker 1: cast Tech, who right now is maybe penciled in to
Speaker 1: Texas A and M. And it seems like if you're
Speaker 1: throwing money at quarterbacks that he would be the sensible
Speaker 1: next guy in yep, you know, from Bryce Underwood to him,
Speaker 1: and maybe there's a transition guy in there, Tommy Carr
Speaker 1: or something like that, but I don't even doesn't seem
Speaker 1: to be much there. And losing an in state guy
Speaker 1: like that and they've got another, They've got other, you know,
Speaker 1: top one hundred type guys in state as well, and
Speaker 1: it's still very early, but I'm interested to see what
Speaker 1: kind of strides he makes in state, because Michigan is
Speaker 1: not a bad state. There's there's always five guys that
Speaker 1: a Michigan can use and what is going to be
Speaker 1: their success rate? Their hit rate with those guys moving forward,
Speaker 1: and you know, it would be good to see them
Speaker 1: get somebody committed here. I guess maybe within the first
Speaker 1: two months of the season with some visits coming and
Speaker 1: you know, unofficial visits of course with twenty twenty eight guys.
Speaker 1: But like Oregon in USC don't have any commits yet
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty eight. So it's like, you can't panic
Speaker 1: because you know they're going to be just fine. I
Speaker 1: still would you know, I guess it's too early to
Speaker 1: get too concerned about Michigan. But until we see something
Speaker 1: more from Kyle Whittingham, it's like, what what is the baseline?
Speaker 1: It can't be overcome it. It can't be confidence, let
Speaker 1: alone over confidence.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And to be honest, I would have expected a
Speaker 2: little more energy with the new coach coming in and
Speaker 2: him being such a you know, a coach with such
Speaker 2: a resume.
Speaker 3: And I don't.
Speaker 2: And we know they do have money, but they're not
Speaker 2: firing like they were with that top five, top six class.
Speaker 2: So it's gonna be interesting to see for twenty eight
Speaker 2: for sure. But I think my gut instinct is we're
Speaker 2: not gonna see We're gonna see a little bit of regression.
Speaker 2: I mean, they recruited pretty good under Sharon Moore. They
Speaker 2: that for the for all the mess that they had.
Speaker 2: Ultimately we'll see their evaluations. But you know, as far
Speaker 2: as recruiting, they did well, they did pretty well well.
Speaker 1: And yeah, and in twenty twenty six they were twelve,
Speaker 1: and they've had some good classes. I just wonder if
Speaker 1: now top six in the right and so like I
Speaker 1: wonder in the twenty twenty seven class right now, I
Speaker 1: was like eighteen. It feels like eighteen might be the
Speaker 1: water level I think moving forward until they get more
Speaker 1: aggressive and we'll see what happens with all of these
Speaker 1: retention pool and all of that and where all of
Speaker 1: the money is. But I don't see them recruiting like
Speaker 1: they did in the brief period with Searan Moore. But
Speaker 1: then Michigan has never been an elite recruiting school. They've
Speaker 1: always been eight to fifteen something like that, and they've
Speaker 1: existed just fine with their ten to eight wins a
Speaker 1: year as we've grown accustomed to them. So the recruiting
Speaker 1: has been commencer kind of with the success, and sometimes
Speaker 1: the graph goes a little high for who knows why,
Speaker 1: but anything else before we call it a day.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean looking into looking into the future. If
Speaker 2: I was a Michigan fan, I think I would feel really,
Speaker 2: really lucky that you got Whittingham to kind of level
Speaker 2: things off and you don't need to maybe clean it
Speaker 2: up and maybe be proud of the program, remove yourself
Speaker 2: from the delusion that you've been going through for the
Speaker 2: past couple of years. And it's going to be some
Speaker 2: traditional Michigan football that you know, who doesn't love traditional
Speaker 2: Michigan football like it's it's the kind of football they
Speaker 2: love to see.
Speaker 3: It's kind of football like most of us love to
Speaker 3: see too. And I think that they'll be pretty good
Speaker 3: at it.
Speaker 2: But as far as competing, you know, being a winning
Speaker 2: playoff team, I don't think we're going to see that
Speaker 2: underwinning him.
Speaker 1: Well, And yeah, now I'm just wondering if the next
Speaker 1: coach will the timing fit for Bob Chesney, because he's
Speaker 1: he's not going to be at UCLA in four years,
Speaker 1: I would assume, and I'd say Kyle whitting Him probably
Speaker 1: gets at least three years to do what he's gonna do.
Speaker 1: And I do wonder if at some point it's clear
Speaker 1: that Bob Chesney is leaving due to some success, if
Speaker 1: Michigan is like, Kyle, thank you for your service, but
Speaker 1: we're gonna move on, and we're going to go make
Speaker 1: an effort to go land Bob Chesney, who is one
Speaker 1: of the I think the future stars of the business.
Speaker 2: It's a fantastic spot to be in if you're Michigan,
Speaker 2: if he's if winning, him's winning you eight nine to
Speaker 2: ten games, well nine ten games a year and you're
Speaker 2: just kind of sitting there waiting for your pickoff point
Speaker 2: for that next dude. It's a really good spot to
Speaker 2: be in.
Speaker 4: Yeah, So there you go.
Speaker 1: The next head coach of Michigan football Bob Chesney currently
Speaker 1: at UCLA. That's not tampering, that's just speculation. And he's
Speaker 1: gonna be somewhere.
Speaker 4: We know that.
Speaker 1: So what are your thoughts who is the next head
Speaker 1: coach of Michigan. How is Michigan to be going to
Speaker 1: be recruiting? Just your thoughts on some of the villains
Speaker 1: and the killers in this Rivalry'd be interested to hear
Speaker 1: you guys thoughts on YouTube and of course five star
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Speaker 1: that will do it for this episode of the Time
Speaker 1: and Change will Shirley Show. I want to thank you
Speaker 1: all for tuning in and we will talk to you
Speaker 1: guys later