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Speaker 1: Both traditions of men. It's a no brainer.

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Speaker 2: You're such a tyrannical rainer.

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Speaker 1: Is this your first time on the in?

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Speaker 3: Or well?

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Speaker 4: I need to change your shoe?

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Speaker 2: Can't take it these loads?

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Speaker 3: You're slow boys?

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Speaker 4: Is this your first time on the wesh?

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Speaker 1: I need to change your shoe?

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Speaker 2: Was that an uncreated foot part? Unmute, dude, Stop repeating

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my name. Dude, you goober's callin or I'll boot you.

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Where did we get the Bible from? Have you read

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the Canons of Franzia?

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Speaker 5: What are you Catholic?

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Speaker 1: Are you promisonants?

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Speaker 2: I'm not trying to be me, but do you have

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an actual argument?

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Speaker 1: There is only one church? You are in a cult.

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Speaker 2: You're a goblin, a demon, a boomer j quick question.

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Do we have any diddyback venerators in the chat? How

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is this your first time on being?

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Speaker 6: Or well?

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Speaker 2: I need a too, can't take these loads?

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Speaker 6: You're slow boys?

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Speaker 7: Are you?

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Speaker 8: Is this your first time on being?

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Speaker 9: Where?

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Speaker 10: I need aching too?

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Speaker 1: If you're a wine on.

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Speaker 2: Front of the line, I'm mute, dude.

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Speaker 1: What is your epistemic justification?

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Speaker 11: That argument is circular and you are refuted.

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Speaker 1: Is this your first time on me? Where shy, I

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need to change your show.

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Speaker 4: Can't take these loads.

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Speaker 1: You're so boring. Is this your first time on me?

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Where I need to change your show? If you're a

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lie in front of the lie on you dude.

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Speaker 12: Yeah, there's only one.

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Speaker 13: Thing that can bring them together that begins with you.

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Speaker 1: Where it begins with you not.

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Speaker 6: I'm gonna says a wage. Bank on the floor. Bank people,

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WoT bgers, you're gonna pay bars your name.

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Speaker 1: Name, your name name.

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Speaker 6: I want to see your ass. More c os, Yeah,

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I'm talking to you. Get more homes, give more p

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give more motes.

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Speaker 2: Gimp.

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Speaker 6: I want to see the CEOs moves the bee ruin

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those lides in one hundred and forty one.

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Speaker 1: Bb cool.

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Speaker 6: Your name name name.

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Speaker 12: Name, your name name, day the day day shake take

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take that shake that alright.

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Speaker 6: Middle class seegos, get on your toe.

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Speaker 1: H you'll pay.

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Speaker 6: We did just wace.

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Speaker 14: I want to sit in the banker on the floor.

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I want to see your ass, the poor.

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Speaker 6: Make it clap, make it fat clapa.

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Speaker 1: Who's reading. I'm gonna task here.

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Speaker 6: Bankers, get on the floor. Banker people, poor Baker, you're

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gonna pay, Baker, You're gonna pay. One May you read

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a book together.

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Speaker 1: Such in the middle.

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Speaker 15: Class and more Si, I cash in my bank account,

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get on the floor, make the people poor, get.

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Speaker 1: More pain bank.

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Speaker 16: Bank bank bank, my bank bank bank bank, my blang

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bank and my lang, my bang, my bang bang and

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my bang bang bang bang, my bank bank bank bank

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bank tu my bank bank do my bank bank black

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bank du my bank bankd my bank bank bank bank

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bank bank bank bank banks.

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Speaker 17: M hm.

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Speaker 1: Hm hm.

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Speaker 12: Hm. I hope we get some callers. I love you, guys.

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I'm not mean anymore. I'm changed. I'm nice. I'm nice man. Now,

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I'm nice. I know I was muted. I was talking

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to the people that I didn't want you to hear.

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It was a private conversation between me and the people

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I love. You're gonna have to deal with it, are

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you jelly? A little bit?

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Speaker 9: Jelly?

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Speaker 12: I think the chat is behind I should not be muted.

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Can you hear me?

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Speaker 2: Now?

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Speaker 1: Oh?

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Speaker 12: We got a bunch of jealous people in the audience.

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Speaker 9: Talking to me.

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Speaker 1: Ain't talking to me.

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Speaker 18: I want to teach you.

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Speaker 12: Where's the original I'm mute, dude, I'm mute, dude.

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Speaker 1: Check this out. I'm gonna show you how I afforded this.

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Speaker 12: Car, afforded learns of grammar, which afforded this car. Where

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do we get the Bible from? Did you even read

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the cannon? So frasi, there is.

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Speaker 14: Only one charge.

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Speaker 2: You are an You're gobbling a demon a bullmerchard.

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Speaker 1: You're so mean.

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Speaker 12: What I like about the song is that it sounds

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like an evangelical praise and worship.

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Speaker 9: Man.

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Speaker 12: It sounds awful. That's what makes it funny.

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Speaker 1: On your dude?

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Speaker 19: Is this your west?

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Speaker 9: I need.

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Speaker 1: Everybody having a good day.

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Speaker 12: What's up?

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Speaker 4: One plus one plus one equal free?

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Speaker 14: It goes on to the tree.

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Speaker 20: Why do you pray?

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Speaker 2: Dead deep?

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Speaker 12: All right, let's get it started. Enough of that nonsense.

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And I want to give a shout out to before

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we get into the open calls. Buck Johnson did a

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great podcast with I don't know who Monique is, but

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if it's a sister named Monique, I'm on board a

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way of handing tradition. I listened to this podcast. It

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was a great podcast. Everybody should check it out. It's

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the interview with Father John Whiteford and Jim Jatras, friends

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of ours, of course, and they were very kind. I

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said a lot of nice things. I appreciate that have

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nothing but kind words for all those guys as well.

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Not so much for these Protestant people who didn't have

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very good points at all. And I was gonna do

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kind of a response to this podcast, but it's not

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really necessary because they didn't even really talk about much.

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It was basically just Orthodox. He's not American, and so

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America's not going to become Orthodox, which has nothing to

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do with weather. It's through false it's all just culture stuff.

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So you can go listen to their critique of it.

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They did fine critiquing it. The link is in the

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chat over on Bucks podcast. And I noticed one funny

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contradiction in the podcast. Father Wifer kind of hit on it.

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But they fuss about the American Church in general in

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the Protestant domain, and you could extend to Catholic and

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even elements of Orthodoxy that there's a high level of

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acceptance of the Skittles through all the social engineering and

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whatnot in the last you know, fifty sixty hundred years.

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And then he's like, but we don't want to become

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Wortheos because it's like mystical and gay or whatever. It's like, dude,

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you just admitted that your own Protestant nation, America, which

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you tell America as Protestant and Protestant as American and

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America as a Protestant nation, that's your pride and glory.

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You just admitted that it's a giant gay church and

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that's why everybody's going to other areas like Orthodoxy, and

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then you call Orthodoxy gay as it made no sense.

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So and by the way, the highest percentages of anti

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Skittles countries are the ones that are these still nominally

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Orthodox countries like Georgia, Russia, et cetera. So they also

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didn't know anything about orthoxyology, Shacker. They thought Orthodoxy has

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Gregorian It's like people are converting to Orthodoxy for the

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Gregorian chant, yeah, which doesn't exist in Orthodoxy. So good job.

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If you want to support the stream, you can do

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somebody superchats. Superchats are reactivated. We're back, We're in the money. Yes,

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they were. This is just such a weak outing. I

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mean they should have at least like try to address

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some of the reasons. But they're like, but nobody's converting

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over theology. They're only converting for like cool aesthetics. No,

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I mean, we're not focusing on cool aesthetics on my channel.

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Maybe we should focus on that more. But we're always

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every day for years, not every day, but multiple days,

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arguing the theology, so they don't even know how to

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assess their own issues. It's like, you should be able

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to assess that the problem is that people are converting

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over the theological issues and historical issues, and then they

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just deny that in the podcast and they're like, well,

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we know, it's not that it has to be the

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cool art. I've never met anybody who literally converted over

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cool art. They might have had an interest in orthodox

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theology or whatever through the art, but it's the theology

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dog And by the way, you can people are concerned

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with what's true, and they just can't fathom that maybe

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their position isn't true and that people are actually looking

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into the arguments for orthodoxy and comparing it to the hoolicism,

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et cetera. Now feel free to call in, and the

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way that you guys call in, we already got big

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fat super shadows rolling it out, making this whole outing

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worth it. I don't even have to do anything now

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we can just retire. By the way, where's bitcoin at

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Boys and Girls? Exactly where I told you it would be,

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and we're only going higher. I don't know if it'll

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be this week. We might drop again, but it's like,

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no matter how much winning occurs, haters be in denial.

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You can always still, by the way, super chat through

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stream labs if you choose to. But we do have

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memberships as well. I'll be linking some more members content

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probably today or tomorrow and turn what off? What are

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you talking about? Let's see we gotta let's see what

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we got super chat here, he says Gabriel fifty bucks yo.

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Tucker interviewed shum Off. You're talking about that billionaire Indian dude.

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At one hour fifty seven. They discuss how all world

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views are theory relating and that Silicon Valley atheists must

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have their own assumptions as starting points. Great to hear

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your quick perspective. Sounds like somebody's been listening to what

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we talk about, because I don't know anybody else out

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there pushing that world viewser theory laden. I mean, I'm

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not saying I came up with that, but like in

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terms of present day pushing that perspective, I ain't heard

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nobody else saying that. I mean, Tucker could have heard

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that from somebody else or chum ofth or whoever. But

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I think no, I think maybe we're having a bigger

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effect than we thought. People think that. So, like when

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they did that big Wall Street what was it, Wall

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Street Journal where they interviewed I think Father Wifford and

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Father Josiah and people. They asked me to do an interview,

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and I said no. And by the way, that's like

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the third or fourth major mainstream outlet that's asked me

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to do an interview, and I've turned them all down.

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And it's not because I wouldn't mind the exposure or whatever,

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because I usually on people's podcasts, but you'll notice I

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almost always exclusively go on kind of alternative media type podcast.

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I've never done a mainstream media interview ever, magazine, newspaper, whatever,

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because I don't trust any of them. And so I've

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had Wall Street Journal twice, I've had New Yorker Magazine.

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I've had all these things reach out and I just

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don't even reply. For one, I don't trust any of

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those people to actually report what I say. I just

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assume they're gonna lie so Orthojoe for five bucks, Jay

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when is Passerini balls and shake yaboo, youre going to

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do a debate, Well, they would probably pray and come

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to the same conclusions that they worship the same god.

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So I don't even know if they could have a debate.

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I don't know why my color is all messed up

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in here. The color scheme is all off. Dog, I look, look,

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look a damn hot dog or something. Look at what

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they gave me. But a strange reversal they decided. So

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we're not far from two hundred k. But they did

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a strange reversal and decided, Okay, we'll be on the

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right side of history. We'll give you this little thing here.

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It's a little plaque right here. You have a little

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plaque for what you did. Good job, doing a million

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videos to get to one hundred thousand. Good day, you

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get a little plaque, got a little plaque on you know,

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take right now, just kidding. I'm thankful to have I

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guess the reward for pouring myself out on the internet

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to get one hundred thousand subscribers. Dude just admitted it.

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Dude just admitted it. Clip that clip that and expose him.

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Bro exposed it ain't on my icon. Shelved dog that's

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not even anywhere near the books. I just put it

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up on the bookshelf.

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Speaker 18: So and.

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Speaker 12: I mean, I guess it's kind of okay, like it

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makes sense to get a I guess some kind of award.

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Speaker 9: I guess.

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Speaker 12: I mean, it was a lot of damn work to

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get to one hundred thousand. I mean, we were just demonetized,

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you know, we was distant algorithm. I even talked to

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the people who know about it, and they were like, yeah,

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your channel probably has a controversial rating, which means that

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it's never going to be pushing the algorithm. So the

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audio is breaking up. I don't understand how the why

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the audio would be breaking up. Dire Victor Ziegler straight

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up from eyeswat shut. He says, dire equals lance from

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elite for. What is elite for is some kind of

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video game. Somebody was saying the audio was doing this

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last night. The weird thing is that I don't see

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any indications that there's any problems. Let me see the

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stream indicators, see if it says there's any issues. It

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says stream quality is fine. YouTube doesn't have any YouTube

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says it's healthy. It might be y'all's internet. Somebody said

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last night that it was the audio is cutting out,

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But then I went back and listened to last night's

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podcast and I never heard any audio cutouts, so it

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might be on y'all's in or sometimes YouTube buffers has

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issues with buffering CUS nine ninety nine with thumbs up

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thanks to appreciate that try refreshing if you are hearing

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some kind of skipping or something. I don't know. Alula

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sends five bucks. I literally tell everybody about you. I'm

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not kidding. People are amazed about the sources I give

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them about what's happening in the world, but all I

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do is repeat what you say, so I always tell

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them about you. Well, thank you, Alula, that's very sweet.

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Appreciate that I don't I don't know what Elite for is.

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It sounds like a video name. By the way, I

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chose this year to fast for an entire year from

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video games, not that I really play a lot of

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video games, but I thought, you know what, I want

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to bust butt this upcoming year because I want to

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stack more bitcoin than normal and I want to finish

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Ussel Turcoli with three and so I realized the best

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route to that was to completely cut off all video

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games for the next year. And again, I mean I

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might have put in a few hours a week, so

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it's not like I'm spending hours every day playing video

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games anyway. But I'm like, you know what, the next year,

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I'd rather take that time and energy that went into

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any video game. It's going to go into business related

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things in order to just simply stack bitcoin, because I

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don't know if you guys have noticed how bullish everything

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is now. You got like four states talking about making

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a strategic bitcoin reserve on top of the federal government

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with the limbs Bill Joe Piota, five Canadian bucks, Christ

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is God, thank you so much, Victor Ziegeler, two bucks,

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Pokemon X. Okay, I don't know anything about Pokemon's but

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I will trust your expertise. Welcome everybody. We got open

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debate today. The topics are listed Protestant, Catholic, Muslim, Atheist, libertarian, feminist, Marxist,

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Hebrew Roots, Mormon, Joe's Witness, Hebrew, Israel Lite. Get them

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crazy people calling in And the way you call in

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is through the Twitter space or the x space. You

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can call in right here, and it's also penned. Well,

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penn does excuse me? That's to join the channel if

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you want to do memberships. And we hit two hundred

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and twenty members yesterday. So all right, we got Queen

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of the Juice. Uh, this sounds like this sounds hardcore

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right here, Queen of the Juice gotta. I'm you, I'm you, dude, Hey, j.

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Speaker 3: How's it going?

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Speaker 12: I'm good? What's up with you?

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Speaker 3: Hey? Doing great?

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Speaker 21: You know?

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Speaker 12: Are you drinking phronsier right now? How much wine you got?

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Speaker 22: Oh?

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Speaker 3: I don't drink. I just drink a lot of water

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and coffee. How about you?

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Speaker 12: I only drink phronsie. It's difficult because I get really

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thirsty for water. But then I disciplined myself to not

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drink water, to only quench my thirst with more phronsia

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from that box. Baby, I live on the box.

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Speaker 3: Oh box one?

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Speaker 22: Yeah?

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Speaker 12: Is there another kind of phronsie?

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Speaker 3: I don't know. I'm not familiar, to be honest.

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Speaker 12: So what's on your mind?

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Speaker 1: Well, what's on.

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Speaker 23: My mind is just being so grateful to God Almighty,

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even though I've had so much propaganda and rhetoric used

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against me, you know, name calling, et cetera. I realize

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that during debate, if the other person really doesn't have

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an argument, they just devolve into name calling.

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Speaker 12: Yeah, that definitely happens. What are you usually debating.

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Speaker 23: I'm usually debating the illegitimacy of the government in general,

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and that the government is meaningless and has no purpose

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without people, and people will always have a meaning of

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purpose without the government. Same with the artificial intelligence. The

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artificial intelligence has no meaning or purpose without humanity, and

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humanity will always have meaning.

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Speaker 3: Of purpose without the artificial intelligence.

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Speaker 12: I mean, I guess I've some of thatized with a

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lot of that. But so what do you what are

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your Are you so you're libertarian? Is that why you

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clicked in here?

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Speaker 18: Oh?

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Speaker 3: No, I'm not a libertarian.

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Speaker 23: I'm actually anti government and they made they radicalized me

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to be against them through their terrorism efforts.

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Speaker 12: Libertarians or government?

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Speaker 9: What do you?

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Speaker 20: What do you mean?

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Speaker 1: No?

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Speaker 23: Uh, the organized you know, government and using their authoritarian technology.

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The technocrats.

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Speaker 3: You're well aware of them. I know you've been.

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Speaker 23: Studying our literature like I've been studying their literature. I've

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seen you read out of books that I don't have,

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which is interesting to me.

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Speaker 3: But we've been reading some of the same literature you're

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familiar with.

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Speaker 23: Ray Kurzwell, yeah, yeah, and how Ray Kerswell and Bill

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Gates want to make a new religion.

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Speaker 12: Yeah, I'm sure they would like to have some kind

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of new technocratic religion, those two.

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Speaker 23: Sure, Yeah, where they're the high priests of it. And

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we know that Bill Gates is friends with Trump, and

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you know Trump with all this AI and all the

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efforts with the AI to analyze people's behavior, and we

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also know through the be A Skinner and the works

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of these other behavior and analysts that they're literally torturing

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people to analyze their behavior through torturing, So they're going

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to be used in the artificial intelligence for these same purposes.

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Speaker 12: Yeah. Well, I mean today's topics are more religious, So

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did you have any I'm not disagreeing with your overall

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thesis that they want a social credit score and AI

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to run it and all that, but today we're talking

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about Catholicism, Protestantism, Orthodoxy, Atheism, Islam. Do you have anything

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on those topics that you'd like to debate or discuss.

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Speaker 1: Oh?

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Speaker 23: My main thing I would like to discuss would be

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the mark of the BT system coming into fruition through

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this technology, track and trace technology and those prophecies of

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having this mark that you can't buy or trade without,

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and you know, the digital currency realm, and having everything

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tied into this CBDC, which can be switched on and off.

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Speaker 12: Trump Trump banns CBDC. So how would that be? How

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would that fit into what? Because you said Trump's bad

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but he banns.

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Speaker 1: CDC, well we know that.

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Speaker 23: Well, first again, I'm anti government all in general. I

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am anti all these guys. They've literally tortured us. So

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from what I understand, the rest of everyone else is

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just basically being under Stockholm syndrome at this point. So

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it's hard to even debate with peopleeople that are mentally ill.

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Speaker 3: But regardless of that, Trump has an.

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Speaker 23: Illegal surveillance He's in control of the United States government.

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He could shut down all these illegal surveillance operations, but

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we see he's choosing not to.

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Speaker 12: But again, so today's topics are today's topics are theological?

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And I mean you're saying mark of the Beast? Are

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you saying that Trump is rolling out in the mark

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of the Beast? I don't understand where you're going.

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Speaker 3: The anti Christ? Trump is the anti Christ?

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Speaker 12: All right, We're done. I'm sorry. I feel sorry for you.

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Speaker 3: The majority of the Christians to go.

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Speaker 12: Sure, Amanda, And it took twenty minutes to get to

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the heart of the thing, which was that Trump is

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the Antichrist. What's up?

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Speaker 3: I'm sorry, I didn't catch that.

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Speaker 4: Uh it was that?

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Speaker 17: I am?

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Speaker 18: I am?

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Speaker 3: I can I hear? I can't hear anyone in what

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00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:10,519
you're here?

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Speaker 12: What's up?

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Speaker 3: Hell?

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00:26:12,039 --> 00:26:12,240
Speaker 12: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: I can't?

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Speaker 12: Yeah? Can you hear me?

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Speaker 9: Hello?

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Speaker 3: Hear anyone? I'm sorry, only your.

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Speaker 12: Phone is messed up. It's not my problem. Sorry, good grief.

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We're off to a wild story. You already for some

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adventures today, Savvi? O.

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Speaker 1: Hey, how are you doing?

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Speaker 9: Jay?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? I have questions.

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Speaker 24: So I remember he's talking to a Muslim, and the

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Muslim is saying that something can be generated into existence,

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but be uncreated.

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Speaker 1: My question is that in.

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Speaker 24: Orthodox here I think the I'm the Villica chapter nine ish,

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it says the glory of God was worshiped.

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Speaker 1: Is that what that pretends to the energy has its

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distinction or just a question?

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Speaker 12: Yeah, it's called a theophany. It's a manifestation of the divinity.

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Speaker 1: OK, thank you.

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Speaker 12: Yeah. And the problem is that the Muslim was saying

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that a creature can be eternally generated. You're talking about

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the anask guy that I just shared the clip last night.

439
00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:17,160
How does the creature be eternally generated? That does make

440
00:27:17,359 --> 00:27:31,680
that makes no sense? Cheek malow. I'm mute, chik Amalia,

441
00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:32,640
I'm mute, dude.

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Speaker 1: Can you show me.

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Speaker 25: I just had a question about the Biblical canon, and

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I know you're a proponent of using the argument of

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the formation of the canon against Protestants.

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Speaker 12: Right, yeah, sure, So I would like to ask you if.

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Speaker 25: You think something similar could be used against the Catholics.

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I know they accept the canon based on like people

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authority at the I believe, and we we base our

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canon like the sixth Council or something like that. So

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I would like to ask you if you think there

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is any arguments to be had with the Catholics about

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the canon, like against Catolicism in general, or would it

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be just we say this, you say this, and fruitless.

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Speaker 12: Well, I mean, I guess in their mindset because they

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presupposed the papal view all the way back throughout the

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first millennia, they're gonna say that that canon is authoritative

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because of Pope Damasis in the Councils of Rome, we're

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gonna say, Okay, we appreciate that the West basically has

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the same canon as the East, but we're going to

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look for the Ecumenical Council discussion of it, rather than

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just the Patriarch of the West saying that the Dutero

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canon is part.

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Speaker 5: Of the canon.

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Speaker 12: So I don't know. I mean, in other words, that

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argument hinges on papalism versus synidality and conciliarism.

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Speaker 25: All right, so you would say that before we it

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isn't like a very good argument against Catholics, and we

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should just.

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Speaker 12: Well, it's not that it's a bad argument. It's just

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that it boils back down to the well, it boils

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back down to the thing in question, conciliism versus papalism.

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Speaker 25: So you would just challenge the people supremacy or like

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a directly.

475
00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:33,319
Speaker 12: Yeah, I think the strongest route for that is to

476
00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:37,039
just go into all of the counter examples to Vatican

477
00:29:37,119 --> 00:29:39,319
One in the first millennium, of which there are many,

478
00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:40,680
and all of those.

479
00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:44,079
Speaker 25: Yes, that's all I wanted to ask.

480
00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:57,160
Speaker 12: Thank you, sure, yeah, good questions. Appreciate it, NERD.

481
00:30:01,839 --> 00:30:02,359
Speaker 1: Can you hear me?

482
00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:02,880
Speaker 12: Yeah?

483
00:30:03,799 --> 00:30:04,119
Speaker 9: All right?

484
00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:06,960
Speaker 1: Cool? Uh do you mind if I ask you a philosophical.

485
00:30:06,359 --> 00:30:09,400
Speaker 26: Question because I've been trying to wrap my head around

486
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:15,200
sort of the recursive circle of Orthodoxy, because it is recursive,

487
00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:18,759
and that's what makes it not not contradictory.

488
00:30:18,839 --> 00:30:21,039
Speaker 1: I think, wouldn't it be for transcendentals?

489
00:30:22,079 --> 00:30:26,480
Speaker 26: That if transcendentals exist, then a certain metaphysic is needed

490
00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:29,880
in epistemology, that it must be the Orthodox God and

491
00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:33,119
then in order to quote unquote justify because I was

492
00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:36,839
arguing in atheists about this, to justify the Orthodox.

493
00:30:36,519 --> 00:30:38,119
Speaker 1: God, it would be the transcendentals.

494
00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:39,000
Speaker 9: And that's the circle.

495
00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:44,000
Speaker 12: No, it's just at any worldview bottoms out, it's something

496
00:30:44,079 --> 00:30:47,799
that's that's self recursive and not justifiable. So God is

497
00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:51,799
the ultimate starting point or the ultimate foundation. So God

498
00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:55,960
doesn't doesn't and can't be justified because by definition, God

499
00:30:56,119 --> 00:30:59,119
is the ultimate self referencing thing. He says I am,

500
00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:02,240
that I am, that's so referencing. So there's no there's

501
00:31:02,279 --> 00:31:05,160
no other thing that you appeal to to justify God

502
00:31:05,319 --> 00:31:09,119
because God is the grounding for all possibilities or all conceptions,

503
00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:10,519
all categories, et cetera.

504
00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:13,960
Speaker 26: So would you say proof instead of justification because that

505
00:31:14,079 --> 00:31:16,960
sounds like grounding. But it wouldn't be grounding, it would

506
00:31:17,039 --> 00:31:20,039
just be well, sense of transcendentals exists, like that X

507
00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:22,519
is a necessary condition.

508
00:31:22,319 --> 00:31:23,559
Speaker 1: For why why therefore X.

509
00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:25,000
Speaker 9: Well.

510
00:31:25,079 --> 00:31:28,359
Speaker 12: Proof is a kind of a generic type of term,

511
00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:30,960
because there's all different types of arguments and different types

512
00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:36,160
of proofs. So I mean, if you demonstrate that your

513
00:31:36,359 --> 00:31:39,799
argument grounds the things in question, that would be a

514
00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:40,640
kind of a proof.

515
00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:43,559
Speaker 19: All right, thank you?

516
00:31:44,359 --> 00:31:47,960
Speaker 12: Yeah, I mean I hope hopefully that was helpful. Those

517
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:52,559
are fair questions. Roman Omen, welcome, father Deacon. Feel free

518
00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:55,599
to chime in if you would like. Hey, thanks, appreciation, Sure,

519
00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:00,799
Victor Ziegeler ten ten pounds. I want to keep hearing

520
00:32:00,839 --> 00:32:03,799
that donation jingle. It's a psyop. Yes, I'm mind controlling

521
00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:08,279
you to keep giving super chats with that EDM jingle.

522
00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:11,440
Speaker 1: Hello.

523
00:32:11,799 --> 00:32:16,799
Speaker 18: Hey, So I was having a conversation this morning with

524
00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:20,119
someone on Twitter and he raised a I thought he

525
00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:24,519
raised a good point about the canonical status of Augustine sainthood,

526
00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:28,000
and he I was I was under the impression that

527
00:32:28,799 --> 00:32:32,799
he recanted basically most of the errors that he made

528
00:32:32,839 --> 00:32:33,559
throughout his lifetime.

529
00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:36,519
Speaker 12: No, that's not true or no, retractions doesn't deal with

530
00:32:36,599 --> 00:32:41,480
any of the big stuff. Okay, but he's he's a

531
00:32:41,519 --> 00:32:43,759
saying because the Fifth Ecumenical Council calls him a saint.

532
00:32:43,839 --> 00:32:46,240
Speaker 18: So yeah, that's that's that's what I was saying. I

533
00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:49,839
was like, I submit to the Bride of Christ, and

534
00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:52,160
I agree with I agree with that, But what is

535
00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:55,759
the main difference between him and Origin? Because Origin also

536
00:32:55,839 --> 00:32:58,960
got posthumously a mathematized.

537
00:32:58,279 --> 00:33:03,200
Speaker 12: Because it's not just about being wrong, it's about the obstinacy.

538
00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:10,119
And so Origin was excommunicated and never rejected his mistakes,

539
00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:13,039
and Augustine submitted his writings to the church and said

540
00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:15,799
the church can judge these and that's why it's the

541
00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:19,759
because I double one went with the Cappadocian model the Trinity,

542
00:33:19,799 --> 00:33:22,079
and not the Augustinian model. But good questions.

543
00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:30,200
Speaker 27: I was have an argument was one of the liberal

544
00:33:30,759 --> 00:33:34,200
theology professors, but he was an Origin lover, and that

545
00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:37,839
exact question came up, and I was like, well, he's

546
00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:40,039
condemned as a.

547
00:33:40,079 --> 00:33:43,640
Speaker 28: Heretic, and we talked about what makes heretic and he

548
00:33:43,759 --> 00:33:46,480
tried to defend Origency. But I found the police where

549
00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:49,920
it says I opened my anything I say.

550
00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:53,960
Speaker 1: To be corrected by the Church. Well, you can say

551
00:33:54,079 --> 00:33:58,519
something like that, but the fact that he didn't, Yeah,

552
00:33:59,039 --> 00:33:59,279
it does.

553
00:34:00,359 --> 00:34:03,880
Speaker 12: Origin was condemned. Origin was condemned in his day and

554
00:34:04,119 --> 00:34:06,680
left the teaching of the church. And you also did

555
00:34:06,799 --> 00:34:14,079
other things that booted in from the church, like castrating himself.

556
00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:17,039
So yeah, rabbi, what's up?

557
00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:19,360
Speaker 1: Hello? Hello?

558
00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:19,599
Speaker 29: There?

559
00:34:19,639 --> 00:34:20,119
Speaker 1: Can you hear me?

560
00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:21,880
Speaker 9: Ah?

561
00:34:22,119 --> 00:34:24,119
Speaker 1: Okay? So first things first, I'm not a rabbi. I'm

562
00:34:24,119 --> 00:34:24,960
actually orthodox.

563
00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:26,119
Speaker 12: I'm just a total high up.

564
00:34:27,519 --> 00:34:29,440
Speaker 30: I just wanted to because I saw that there's a

565
00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:30,960
libertarian in the title, and.

566
00:34:31,159 --> 00:34:33,599
Speaker 1: You said you want to talk about the theology and whatnot.

567
00:34:33,639 --> 00:34:35,480
Speaker 30: So I'm not sure if it's that's for me to

568
00:34:35,559 --> 00:34:37,400
be here, but I would like to talk to you

569
00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:43,159
about libertarianism, if that's okay, okay, right, So well.

570
00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:45,480
Speaker 1: First things first, was your stance on libertarianism.

571
00:34:46,119 --> 00:34:49,239
Speaker 12: Well, libertarianism comes out of the Enlightenment, so I don't

572
00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:53,039
see how it's really combinable in its fundamental forms with

573
00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:58,239
Orthodox Christianity. There's elements of libertarianism that we probably agree

574
00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:02,320
with some of the basics, but the idea that you know,

575
00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:08,159
the state is a human institution, social contract, utilitarianism, all

576
00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:12,559
the things that are usually attendant attendant upon natural rights,

577
00:35:12,639 --> 00:35:14,000
like all these things that are usually kind of the

578
00:35:14,119 --> 00:35:18,719
essence of libertarianism or the Enlightenment are in my view untenable.

579
00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:21,760
Speaker 1: Also, I'd say two when I've.

580
00:35:21,599 --> 00:35:25,360
Speaker 28: Taught a class on this, just comparing uh kind of

581
00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:31,239
more modern political thinkers and theories of government compared to antiquity.

582
00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:35,679
Speaker 1: It's all monitor theories, especially libertarian is all premised on

583
00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:36,239
kind of.

584
00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:44,159
Speaker 28: Negative rights, restrict creating laws that you know, will enable

585
00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:47,400
somebody to do something, but restrict you know, you know,

586
00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:51,360
somebody from committing theft, uh.

587
00:35:51,559 --> 00:35:52,960
Speaker 1: Murder, different stuff like that.

588
00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:56,440
Speaker 28: And if you look at the way antiquity is structured

589
00:35:56,519 --> 00:36:00,239
in terms of law in the state, it's an ever

590
00:36:01,039 --> 00:36:04,559
this kind of hobbs in, like, you know, man's.

591
00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:06,000
Speaker 1: Just going to kill everybody, so we're going to create

592
00:36:06,039 --> 00:36:09,199
laws to prevent him to do that. It's about creating

593
00:36:10,039 --> 00:36:15,039
laws that promote virtue. So the end for the state in.

594
00:36:18,119 --> 00:36:23,360
Speaker 28: In antiquity is who cares about freedom if it's preventing

595
00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:28,960
somebody from obtaining virtue. You create laws to prevent people

596
00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:33,440
from doing those things, and you create laws to promote virtue.

597
00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:37,760
And I thought that was an essential distinction between the.

598
00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:41,199
Speaker 12: Kind of two negative liberty versus the state having a

599
00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:43,119
duty to promote virtue.

600
00:36:43,679 --> 00:36:47,480
Speaker 30: Yeah, okay, So I mean I feel like you're talking

601
00:36:47,559 --> 00:36:50,880
more about states libertarianism, whereas I might be a little

602
00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:51,880
bit more extreme than that.

603
00:36:52,079 --> 00:36:54,719
Speaker 1: I kind I see myself as an anarchist.

604
00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:58,400
Speaker 30: So to me, my perspective is more like the state

605
00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:02,280
is so I think the laws and whatnot, you should

606
00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:04,239
go down to the household level, really, and I think

607
00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:07,199
the best way to establish a deocracy, if anything, is

608
00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:07,960
through anarchy.

609
00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:12,320
Speaker 12: A slave cannot have two masters, right, And I feel

610
00:37:13,719 --> 00:37:16,119
do you think the New Testament is anarchic in its

611
00:37:16,159 --> 00:37:20,039
perspective when Paul says that Caesar has the sword and

612
00:37:20,119 --> 00:37:23,880
he is a diacinos, No, not necessarily.

613
00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:26,159
Speaker 30: I mean the Bible came before the establishment of the

614
00:37:26,239 --> 00:37:28,199
modern state, right, So my issue is more with the

615
00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:31,639
modern state kind of started sixteen forty eight. But my

616
00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:36,760
personal perspective is I think the only way to actually

617
00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:40,360
be proper in a manner, so the state is antithetical

618
00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:45,079
to theology. I feel state cannot have two masters. And

619
00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:49,519
I feel like Caesar is demanding worship, so rendern to

620
00:37:49,599 --> 00:37:51,880
God what belongs to God? Right, But Caesar thinks.

621
00:37:52,119 --> 00:37:53,840
Speaker 12: Wasn't But wasn't that true? At the time of the

622
00:37:54,599 --> 00:37:58,960
first century when Paul wrote Romans Nero, I.

623
00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:02,679
Speaker 30: Don't think Paul liked Caesar. What, I don't think Paul

624
00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:03,519
liked Caesar.

625
00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:06,639
Speaker 12: Yeah, but Romans thirteen calls him still a diaconos.

626
00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:11,960
Speaker 1: I mean, like, look, I'm not pretty familiar with that term.

627
00:38:12,079 --> 00:38:15,559
Speaker 12: Just so you know, I thought you're Orthodox. Well I

628
00:38:15,599 --> 00:38:21,639
am Orthodox, but you don't know what the word means. Non, Okay, well,

629
00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:23,880
good points, fair points. I appreciate that they're going to

630
00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:25,239
move on Dallas. What's up man?

631
00:38:30,599 --> 00:38:30,800
Speaker 9: Hello?

632
00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:35,840
Speaker 12: Mm hmm, what's up?

633
00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:36,079
Speaker 9: Dog?

634
00:38:37,480 --> 00:38:38,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, I got a question.

635
00:38:40,039 --> 00:38:46,440
Speaker 31: So decrease sixteen and the Council of Jerusalem. I heard

636
00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:49,920
a guy today like promote that Orthodoxy.

637
00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:51,559
Speaker 1: Like before.

638
00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:54,639
Speaker 31: I guess like he's basically saying Orthodoxy the past one

639
00:38:54,679 --> 00:39:01,639
hundred years is fake, and Orthodoxy before that it's real Orthodoxy.

640
00:39:02,639 --> 00:39:05,000
They used to believe in inherit a guilt like the

641
00:39:05,079 --> 00:39:05,840
growing Catholics.

642
00:39:06,159 --> 00:39:08,119
Speaker 12: No, that's I mean, yeah, I mean, do you think

643
00:39:08,199 --> 00:39:11,559
that's really a tenable argument? It's all Orthodoxy sins. Decrease

644
00:39:11,639 --> 00:39:15,480
sixteen it's fake. No, I mean, this is a basic

645
00:39:15,559 --> 00:39:19,480
misunderstanding of the Latin or the Western terminology that's used

646
00:39:19,519 --> 00:39:22,519
in some of those confessions and creeds and councils, and

647
00:39:22,639 --> 00:39:25,840
so remission of sins. Sometimes even Paul talks about remission

648
00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:30,000
of sins as if everyone is who's under Adam has

649
00:39:30,199 --> 00:39:32,639
or needs remission of sins, and it's just talking about

650
00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:35,239
the state that they're in. It doesn't mean that they

651
00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:37,960
have actual guilt. And so both the Orthodox Church and

652
00:39:38,039 --> 00:39:42,239
the Catholic Church, especially in those later centuries after the

653
00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:47,159
Middle Ages, they started to develop a distinction between original

654
00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:50,519
sin and actual sin. So the people that you're talking

655
00:39:50,519 --> 00:39:52,239
about who just say this stuff on Twitter, they have

656
00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:54,599
no idea what they're talking about. They're just spouting stuff.

657
00:39:54,639 --> 00:39:56,800
And now they're actually talking about something that would be

658
00:39:56,800 --> 00:39:59,880
schism to say that everybody got it wrong Post sixteen hundred.

659
00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:03,920
It's just retarded. I mean, it's not worth anybody's time.

660
00:40:03,960 --> 00:40:05,360
This is why we tell you guys not to listen

661
00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:08,360
to people who've never studied theology and they just run

662
00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:10,039
around on Twitter and they don't have any blessing to

663
00:40:10,079 --> 00:40:12,440
teach to just confuse people. The only thing they do

664
00:40:12,559 --> 00:40:15,119
is confuse people. So no, there's no church in the

665
00:40:15,239 --> 00:40:17,559
world except for Calvinism unless you want to go be

666
00:40:17,599 --> 00:40:20,159
a Calvinist. You can go still believe in inherited guilt

667
00:40:20,239 --> 00:40:23,719
with them. Maybe maybe traditional Lutherans. I don't, I don't

668
00:40:23,719 --> 00:40:26,840
even know. But no, it's just kind of preposterous to

669
00:40:26,920 --> 00:40:32,039
think that everybody got it wrong when it's no more likely. No,

670
00:40:32,239 --> 00:40:36,360
it's absolutely the case that they're wrong. Amanda Lee, you

671
00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:37,119
want to try again?

672
00:40:41,159 --> 00:40:41,400
Speaker 1: Hello?

673
00:40:41,639 --> 00:40:42,519
Speaker 3: Is it working this time?

674
00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:44,960
Speaker 9: Yes?

675
00:40:46,239 --> 00:40:48,679
Speaker 3: Oh, but I can't hear you. I'm sorry.

676
00:40:49,559 --> 00:40:54,880
Speaker 12: I don't know why you can't. It's not common sense.

677
00:41:03,679 --> 00:41:08,159
You can say that original sin and everybody encompassed under

678
00:41:08,239 --> 00:41:13,920
the descent of Adam is deprived of the grace of immortality,

679
00:41:14,559 --> 00:41:17,239
but they make the leap that it therefore means that

680
00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:20,880
they're damned and that they have personal guilt. Damnation is

681
00:41:20,920 --> 00:41:27,079
contingent on personal guilt, actual sin, not original sin. And

682
00:41:27,119 --> 00:41:29,920
that's why the Bible itself says that nobody is guilty

683
00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:31,719
for their fathers sin. So you either believe in a

684
00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:34,559
contradiction or you have a way to reconcile these two

685
00:41:34,639 --> 00:41:40,760
positions and the Western Latin understanding. When Augustine translated and

686
00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:44,719
misunderstood that text, because the Greek doesn't say what the

687
00:41:44,840 --> 00:41:48,760
Latin says, he thought all men are guilty in Adam

688
00:41:49,400 --> 00:41:51,559
when it says that all men are in Adam and

689
00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:54,920
sin because they're sons of Adam, they're not sinners because

690
00:41:54,960 --> 00:41:58,920
they're in atom as in an archetype. And therefore Augustine

691
00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:03,679
attributed to Paul the teaching of original guilt. Nobody else

692
00:42:04,079 --> 00:42:06,320
taught that in the West in the East, and by

693
00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:08,440
the way, the early Western Church brothers didn't teach that either,

694
00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:12,039
so they're just confusing statements like that. And by the way,

695
00:42:13,039 --> 00:42:18,920
the irony there is that when Catholics or these Western

696
00:42:19,039 --> 00:42:23,159
rite idiots think that those councils are teaching Latin theology,

697
00:42:23,840 --> 00:42:26,599
that would mean that they're borrowing from the Roman Catholic

698
00:42:26,920 --> 00:42:31,800
terminology and mindset, which didn't teach original guilt. So the

699
00:42:31,920 --> 00:42:34,320
very thing that they argue that it's borrowing from, or

700
00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:37,840
that it's speaking in line with Western Latin theology, it's

701
00:42:37,840 --> 00:42:40,840
about the Snaut of Jerusalem and whatnot, well, that would

702
00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:43,760
mean that they're adopting the Roman Catholic position or that

703
00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:46,119
they're restanding the Roman Catholic position according to these people.

704
00:42:46,599 --> 00:42:49,480
And if that's the case, then they're also still not

705
00:42:49,599 --> 00:42:53,000
teaching original guilt, because the Roman Catholics don't teach original guilt.

706
00:42:54,280 --> 00:42:57,480
It's just so idiotic like people have they don't know

707
00:42:57,519 --> 00:43:00,039
the basics, and then they run off on Twitter and

708
00:43:00,119 --> 00:43:02,519
they go crazy with a bunch of people's like quote minds,

709
00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:06,400
and it's just a waste of time. So you're wasting

710
00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:08,800
your own time following these people who will just lead

711
00:43:08,840 --> 00:43:13,039
you into nonsense. And that's why they'll go on the

712
00:43:13,159 --> 00:43:15,800
comments of Bishop Arona and tell Bishop Arna that he's

713
00:43:15,800 --> 00:43:19,679
a heretic like Prime did. So you're just wasting your

714
00:43:19,679 --> 00:43:21,719
time following people who are like twenty two year olds

715
00:43:21,760 --> 00:43:22,440
and don't know anything.

716
00:43:23,519 --> 00:43:26,880
Speaker 28: By the way, I mean, it's a whole I think,

717
00:43:26,880 --> 00:43:30,280
a whole issue and problem with kind of a Protestant

718
00:43:30,400 --> 00:43:36,199
mindset and Americanism that well, we just have a free

719
00:43:36,360 --> 00:43:41,079
market of online orthodox content provider and might pick your

720
00:43:41,159 --> 00:43:45,960
favorite one even if no credentials, even if clergy warnt

721
00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:49,320
against you, just just choose your own theology. Right, it's

722
00:43:49,360 --> 00:43:55,440
a total kind of free market American Protestantism.

723
00:43:55,480 --> 00:43:58,239
Speaker 1: And it's just now that doesn't mean that you know,

724
00:43:58,360 --> 00:43:59,119
somebody can't.

725
00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:01,440
Speaker 28: Question clergy and stuff like that, but there's a prescribed

726
00:44:01,480 --> 00:44:07,719
way that again, and there's a consensus among the clergy too,

727
00:44:07,800 --> 00:44:08,480
isn't that interesting.

728
00:44:08,599 --> 00:44:11,400
Speaker 12: Yeah, there's no clergy that say what they say. Yeah,

729
00:44:11,800 --> 00:44:14,079
it's just idiots on the internet. Well they're all wrong,

730
00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:17,280
and no even say all the clergy're wrong, but we're.

731
00:44:17,199 --> 00:44:22,360
Speaker 28: Right, which shows you another instance of why it's very Protestant,

732
00:44:24,199 --> 00:44:26,519
the necessity to have normative authority to.

733
00:44:26,599 --> 00:44:27,679
Speaker 9: Resolve these disputes.

734
00:44:28,719 --> 00:44:32,480
Speaker 28: Why clergy at various levels right going up from the

735
00:44:32,559 --> 00:44:36,159
dock and to the priests, to the bishops, to synods

736
00:44:37,039 --> 00:44:41,880
are legally binding on you because otherwise every goose is

737
00:44:41,960 --> 00:44:42,320
can just.

738
00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:44,719
Speaker 1: Go and quote mind and make their own case.

739
00:44:44,519 --> 00:44:46,360
Speaker 28: And then you just have the free market and you

740
00:44:46,440 --> 00:44:49,440
got to rely on your own understanding and just figure

741
00:44:49,440 --> 00:44:50,119
out the best and.

742
00:44:50,159 --> 00:44:53,119
Speaker 1: Then you're totally confused. Yeah, so it's just not the

743
00:44:53,280 --> 00:44:54,519
Orthodox way of going up.

744
00:44:54,519 --> 00:45:00,239
Speaker 12: It's Protestant, exactly as you said, Al Season's five dollars first,

745
00:45:00,239 --> 00:45:03,440
super chat visious. Thank you. Here's a great article that

746
00:45:03,559 --> 00:45:07,159
Mayandorff wrote a long time ago that really summarizes the

747
00:45:07,480 --> 00:45:10,679
root of this mistake and why the idea of original

748
00:45:10,760 --> 00:45:14,360
guilt even came to be. And it's because in Romans five,

749
00:45:14,599 --> 00:45:17,400
when Augustine was arguing against the Palagian's he thought that

750
00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:20,679
this was a key passage that proved that all men

751
00:45:20,679 --> 00:45:23,599
are guilty in Adam because they're in Atom as in

752
00:45:23,599 --> 00:45:26,039
an archetype, which is literally what he says in the

753
00:45:26,079 --> 00:45:27,920
City of God. I've done a whole lecture through. I've

754
00:45:27,920 --> 00:45:30,760
read most of those key writings of Augusta, I read

755
00:45:30,800 --> 00:45:34,239
all the anti Pallagian, all the Antidonatists, I read City

756
00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:39,280
of God, I've read the theological treatises, and he does

757
00:45:39,360 --> 00:45:42,960
teach clear as day, multiple times over that everybody is

758
00:45:43,639 --> 00:45:46,440
in Adam as in an archetype, and that's why they're guilty.

759
00:45:46,480 --> 00:45:48,800
It's called mass daw Nata is the name of the doctrine,

760
00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:51,920
and it was never taught in the East, and eventually,

761
00:45:52,039 --> 00:45:54,280
when the East saw that this was being taught, it

762
00:45:54,440 --> 00:45:56,239
was rejected. And that's why you have people like Saint

763
00:45:56,280 --> 00:45:59,559
Fodia saying, no, we don't believe this. And so there's

764
00:45:59,559 --> 00:46:05,119
a reckon for how infants are quote innocent, meaning innocent

765
00:46:05,280 --> 00:46:11,199
of personal sins, actual sins, yet they're also encompassed under

766
00:46:11,280 --> 00:46:15,039
original sin in that their descendants of Adam, who inherit

767
00:46:15,519 --> 00:46:20,039
the passions from Adam and eventually will commit an actual sin.

768
00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:24,920
That's what Romans five means. And Mayendorff demonstrates that this

769
00:46:25,079 --> 00:46:29,239
is precisely where Augustine got it wrong, and that's why

770
00:46:29,719 --> 00:46:33,960
multiple great church fathers after this time period, like Saint Photius,

771
00:46:34,599 --> 00:46:38,280
point out that this is incorrect in Augustine. And so

772
00:46:38,599 --> 00:46:40,400
there's this all these people who have no idea what

773
00:46:40,440 --> 00:46:42,559
they're talking about, and they just run around on Twitter

774
00:46:43,280 --> 00:46:45,400
endlessly quote mining and they only have like one or

775
00:46:45,440 --> 00:46:47,199
two things that they go to and they just repeat

776
00:46:47,239 --> 00:46:49,840
that incessantly, and they never talk about or explain any

777
00:46:49,840 --> 00:46:55,599
of this other stuff common sense, what's up? Dog? Welcome everybody,

778
00:46:56,440 --> 00:46:57,280
can you hear me? Yeah?

779
00:46:58,800 --> 00:46:59,320
Speaker 9: Cool? Yeah.

780
00:46:59,400 --> 00:47:01,440
Speaker 10: I think it's pretty fascinating how much.

781
00:47:02,840 --> 00:47:04,920
Speaker 2: And I call them the church nephews because I think

782
00:47:05,039 --> 00:47:08,679
that they taught a lot of things that just weren't

783
00:47:08,800 --> 00:47:11,360
taught by Christ in the apostles, like the Trinity for example.

784
00:47:12,840 --> 00:47:15,880
Speaker 12: I mean, the Trinity is taught, for example, in every

785
00:47:15,960 --> 00:47:18,000
chapter of the Gospel of John. We lectured to the

786
00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:20,360
whole book. So where do you get that it's not

787
00:47:20,480 --> 00:47:21,000
ever taught?

788
00:47:21,079 --> 00:47:24,320
Speaker 10: I mean, it's inferred, but nobody, nobody tries to teach

789
00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:26,159
you or make the case that God's three persons.

790
00:47:26,199 --> 00:47:26,360
Speaker 6: Ever.

791
00:47:27,679 --> 00:47:30,000
Speaker 12: I mean, it's immediately taught by the post Apostolic Father.

792
00:47:30,119 --> 00:47:33,760
So what do you mean we did a whole You said,

793
00:47:33,840 --> 00:47:35,039
nobody ever taught.

794
00:47:34,920 --> 00:47:37,079
Speaker 14: This in the Bible, in the Gospel.

795
00:47:37,400 --> 00:47:39,960
Speaker 12: Yes, well you mean the terminology.

796
00:47:40,880 --> 00:47:43,840
Speaker 18: No, a teaching of it like God is actually three

797
00:47:43,880 --> 00:47:44,719
persons nobody.

798
00:47:45,000 --> 00:47:46,960
Speaker 12: Well, if the New Testament said, hold on, if the

799
00:47:47,000 --> 00:47:51,199
New Testament says that the Father is God and is he?

800
00:47:52,079 --> 00:47:54,440
And if the Son is godden is he? And if

801
00:47:54,440 --> 00:47:56,719
the Holy Spirit is gotten, is he? Then that's teaching

802
00:47:56,760 --> 00:47:57,320
three persons.

803
00:47:58,360 --> 00:48:02,400
Speaker 1: No, that's that's Moses is also called judges, are.

804
00:48:02,280 --> 00:48:05,119
Speaker 12: Called Elohem has nothing to do with it, has nothing

805
00:48:05,119 --> 00:48:07,280
to do with the New Testament terminology where Jesus is

806
00:48:07,360 --> 00:48:10,920
called Yahweh and called the tetragrammaton has used of him

807
00:48:10,960 --> 00:48:12,079
do has nothing to do with Elohim.

808
00:48:12,719 --> 00:48:14,719
Speaker 1: He's never called in the New Testament.

809
00:48:14,840 --> 00:48:15,079
Speaker 9: He is.

810
00:48:15,159 --> 00:48:17,559
Speaker 12: Absolutely He says I am that I am multiple times

811
00:48:17,599 --> 00:48:19,519
in the Gospel of John, which I just quoted to you,

812
00:48:19,760 --> 00:48:22,239
and John one, he's called God, he's called the logos

813
00:48:22,320 --> 00:48:22,599
of God.

814
00:48:23,400 --> 00:48:25,360
Speaker 1: No, he doesn't say in the beginning with the Sun.

815
00:48:26,920 --> 00:48:30,800
Speaker 12: Who's the logos? Doesn't John, who is the logos.

816
00:48:31,880 --> 00:48:34,320
Speaker 1: It's God's word. God's word belongs to God's Who.

817
00:48:34,320 --> 00:48:36,639
Speaker 12: Does John identify that person as.

818
00:48:37,440 --> 00:48:39,079
Speaker 1: At the baptism Christ becomes alone?

819
00:48:39,079 --> 00:48:41,960
Speaker 12: No, no, no, in John one, not his baptism, Yeah,

820
00:48:42,039 --> 00:48:44,840
he does. He tells, you're not answering my question in

821
00:48:45,000 --> 00:48:47,559
John one, who is that identified.

822
00:48:46,920 --> 00:48:49,400
Speaker 1: As God's word belongs to him?

823
00:48:49,920 --> 00:48:52,360
Speaker 12: You're just repeating your position. I'm asking a specific question

824
00:48:52,400 --> 00:48:55,760
about John one. Yeah, so you're not. You're not gonna

825
00:48:55,760 --> 00:48:56,039
answer it.

826
00:48:56,800 --> 00:48:59,199
Speaker 1: I am going to It's the word belongs to God.

827
00:48:59,199 --> 00:48:59,679
Speaker 9: It's with God.

828
00:48:59,719 --> 00:49:00,639
Speaker 1: It's not another person.

829
00:49:02,880 --> 00:49:06,039
Speaker 12: It says he who's what does he refer to in grammar?

830
00:49:07,119 --> 00:49:08,760
Speaker 1: It's personified like us wisdom?

831
00:49:08,840 --> 00:49:08,960
Speaker 9: Is she?

832
00:49:09,920 --> 00:49:12,760
Speaker 12: Yeah? But that it's identified in this chapter that that's

833
00:49:12,840 --> 00:49:15,599
who became flesh? Is this word in John one? Fourteen?

834
00:49:16,599 --> 00:49:19,079
Speaker 1: Right, we know that John the word became flesh at

835
00:49:19,079 --> 00:49:19,599
the baptism.

836
00:49:19,639 --> 00:49:21,880
Speaker 12: It tells you that, no, no, this is talking about

837
00:49:21,880 --> 00:49:24,480
his birth. He became flesh when he took on the

838
00:49:24,599 --> 00:49:26,159
nature from Mary that he assumed.

839
00:49:27,519 --> 00:49:30,000
Speaker 1: Yes, it is, John warned fourteen.

840
00:49:30,119 --> 00:49:33,639
Speaker 12: It says, and John, who is the one that's eternally begotten?

841
00:49:33,679 --> 00:49:36,760
In verse eighteen, it's not who is the one who

842
00:49:36,840 --> 00:49:38,840
is that? So in verse eighteen, it's not Jesus, even

843
00:49:38,840 --> 00:49:39,880
though it says it's Jesus.

844
00:49:40,719 --> 00:49:43,079
Speaker 1: Well, different translations say Son, not God.

845
00:49:44,719 --> 00:49:46,559
Speaker 12: No one has seen God at any time, but the

846
00:49:46,599 --> 00:49:49,320
only begotten Son, who is in present tense the bosom

847
00:49:49,360 --> 00:49:51,960
of the Father has executed or declared him in the Greek.

848
00:49:53,400 --> 00:49:56,159
What do you mean, right, Yeah, that's refuting what you said. No,

849
00:49:56,400 --> 00:49:56,840
who is that?

850
00:49:57,760 --> 00:49:58,320
Speaker 9: Who is that?

851
00:49:58,440 --> 00:50:02,639
Speaker 12: In John one eighteen it's Jesus Christ is in exactly

852
00:50:03,239 --> 00:50:03,960
it's this is that?

853
00:50:04,079 --> 00:50:04,119
Speaker 1: Not?

854
00:50:04,239 --> 00:50:06,840
Speaker 12: And it's not the same word from three verses earlier.

855
00:50:07,559 --> 00:50:09,480
Speaker 1: No, we don't ever see the Son in the Old Testament.

856
00:50:10,239 --> 00:50:13,159
Speaker 12: Okay. Jesus himself says that he's the one that spoke

857
00:50:13,239 --> 00:50:14,599
to Moses. What do you mean he's not in the

858
00:50:14,639 --> 00:50:17,840
Old test Yes he does, he says that, Yes he does. Yeah,

859
00:50:17,880 --> 00:50:20,519
he says that Moses wrote about me. Paul says in

860
00:50:20,599 --> 00:50:22,920
segret in these three that when Paul that when Moses

861
00:50:22,960 --> 00:50:24,800
went up on the mountain, he talked face to face

862
00:50:24,880 --> 00:50:28,000
with Christ. Yes he does. What do you mean you're

863
00:50:28,039 --> 00:50:30,119
just saying, no, three, you can't ever.

864
00:50:30,119 --> 00:50:32,320
Speaker 32: Show the Son in the Old Testament alive doing anything

865
00:50:32,400 --> 00:50:32,920
being worshiped.

866
00:50:33,039 --> 00:50:35,000
Speaker 12: What are you talking about who is the angel of

867
00:50:35,039 --> 00:50:38,280
the Lord. He's every one of the Theophanies doesn't says Lord,

868
00:50:38,440 --> 00:50:41,599
Yes it does. Jesus identifies himself in John five through

869
00:50:41,679 --> 00:50:43,920
nine too, the Pharisees as the one who appeared in eight,

870
00:50:44,000 --> 00:50:46,559
with Abraham as the one. All right, you're just a liar.

871
00:50:46,639 --> 00:50:53,360
It's good, Yes he does. You're a liar. We've lectured

872
00:50:53,400 --> 00:50:57,280
through the entirety of all of these tore up passages

873
00:50:58,039 --> 00:51:00,159
on the Theophanes is completely nonsose.

874
00:51:00,039 --> 00:51:01,039
Speaker 1: It's just repeating no.

875
00:51:02,000 --> 00:51:04,480
Speaker 12: Yeah, he just said no about twenty times and repeated

876
00:51:04,519 --> 00:51:06,960
his position when I gave him literally all the texts

877
00:51:06,960 --> 00:51:11,800
that refute what he's saying. And so he's just repeating

878
00:51:11,880 --> 00:51:16,760
like made up Aryan nonsense. What's up Ruby or something?

879
00:51:19,199 --> 00:51:19,440
Speaker 3: Yes?

880
00:51:19,599 --> 00:51:24,519
Speaker 33: Hello, I actually I had a question if that's okay.

881
00:51:27,000 --> 00:51:31,639
So I'm a former Jehovah's witness and I recently converted

882
00:51:31,679 --> 00:51:34,719
to Orthodoxy, and I still feel like I have certain

883
00:51:36,719 --> 00:51:44,559
questions about Mary, Armageddon, and the resurrection. So really quickly, Mary,

884
00:51:45,760 --> 00:51:48,440
why does it matter whether or not she was a

885
00:51:49,000 --> 00:51:50,760
virgin after Jesus was born?

886
00:51:52,280 --> 00:51:54,320
Speaker 3: And about Armageddon.

887
00:51:55,280 --> 00:51:57,920
Speaker 33: I still struggle with Armageddon as if is it real,

888
00:51:58,559 --> 00:51:59,880
is it going to happen, is it literal?

889
00:52:00,119 --> 00:52:00,840
Speaker 3: Is it symbolic?

890
00:52:01,599 --> 00:52:05,679
Speaker 33: And then with the Resurrection, I still struggle with like

891
00:52:05,840 --> 00:52:08,119
what happens to us after we die and are we

892
00:52:08,239 --> 00:52:11,119
going to be resurrected on a paradise earth or are

893
00:52:11,159 --> 00:52:13,639
we just going to go to heaven like well, so.

894
00:52:13,679 --> 00:52:17,000
Speaker 12: The Resurrection is a new creation of the entire universe.

895
00:52:18,440 --> 00:52:20,519
In terms of Mary, I made a whole forty minute

896
00:52:20,559 --> 00:52:22,199
video that I would say to go and watch, so

897
00:52:22,280 --> 00:52:24,000
that I'm not trying to be dismissive. It's just that

898
00:52:24,639 --> 00:52:27,079
it's a whole lot of like, you know, things to rehearse,

899
00:52:27,159 --> 00:52:29,440
and each one of these topics they're very vast. So

900
00:52:29,840 --> 00:52:32,079
watch my Mary video which is forty minutes on the

901
00:52:32,159 --> 00:52:35,119
Theo tokos and that argues from the Bible why all

902
00:52:35,159 --> 00:52:37,599
the Marrian doctrines are the case. Then I would say

903
00:52:38,079 --> 00:52:41,880
watch my video on the Beast in the Resurrection, which

904
00:52:41,960 --> 00:52:44,039
is about preterism and how we don't have to be

905
00:52:44,880 --> 00:52:47,559
in this sort of you're an XGW, so we don't

906
00:52:47,559 --> 00:52:51,440
have to have this like end time sphere sensationalist type position.

907
00:52:51,559 --> 00:52:53,280
There will be an end times, there will be you know,

908
00:52:53,320 --> 00:52:56,800
a final Antichrist. But I have extensive podcasts on all

909
00:52:56,800 --> 00:52:59,000
of those specific topics, So do you go check those

910
00:52:59,039 --> 00:53:04,719
out because those are pretty vast topics there. Rafael, what's up?

911
00:53:04,800 --> 00:53:04,960
Speaker 29: Due?

912
00:53:07,360 --> 00:53:10,400
Speaker 12: We gotta hold on one second. Jonathan dine In five bucks,

913
00:53:10,480 --> 00:53:12,880
Crucible rad, Hey, what's up? Welcome to everybody. Appreciate you

914
00:53:12,920 --> 00:53:15,280
guys coming on over the cheap chimp five bucks for

915
00:53:15,440 --> 00:53:19,320
the cringe core Lord, thank you. Jaden Day. I appreciate

916
00:53:19,360 --> 00:53:21,079
the ten bucks, but I don't think I can read

917
00:53:21,119 --> 00:53:24,639
that super chat five bucks. If you want to come

918
00:53:24,719 --> 00:53:28,719
ask it somewhere else on a different format, maybe let's

919
00:53:28,760 --> 00:53:32,800
see Iranian Jay three dollars. Will you debate or discuss

920
00:53:32,880 --> 00:53:36,519
doctor Khalil about Islam and neo Platonism. I doubt it.

921
00:53:36,599 --> 00:53:38,719
I don't have time for that kind of a formal debate. Also,

922
00:53:39,239 --> 00:53:41,119
I don't think that you can go watch his debate

923
00:53:41,159 --> 00:53:45,800
with Shamoon Eb five bucks. I'm Orthodox converted, but I'm

924
00:53:45,800 --> 00:53:52,440
still addicted to certain sins. Personal advice, any personal advice

925
00:53:52,719 --> 00:53:54,880
besides talk to my spiritual father. I mean, you just

926
00:53:54,960 --> 00:53:57,760
have to keep battling. Everybody's going to keepattling or passion,

927
00:53:57,840 --> 00:54:01,800
so don't get discouraged. What's up, Raphael?

928
00:54:03,039 --> 00:54:06,960
Speaker 34: So, uh, just a context, I'm Orthodox, and uh, I

929
00:54:07,079 --> 00:54:09,960
just want to run back on that original sin slash

930
00:54:10,039 --> 00:54:14,159
guilt topic. Right, So I came up like or I

931
00:54:14,159 --> 00:54:16,440
didn't come up with it, but I was thinking, would

932
00:54:16,440 --> 00:54:19,639
the saint with Saint Varus and Saint Cleopatra like kind

933
00:54:19,679 --> 00:54:22,079
of refute the original guilt claim.

934
00:54:23,360 --> 00:54:24,880
Speaker 12: I don't know off the top of my head. How

935
00:54:25,079 --> 00:54:25,920
what's so.

936
00:54:26,159 --> 00:54:31,159
Speaker 34: Saint Virus Basically he was a martyr who prayed for posthumously,

937
00:54:31,239 --> 00:54:36,440
he prayed for Saint Cleopatra's deceased child who was unbaptized. Right, Oh,

938
00:54:36,800 --> 00:54:40,119
she received a vision you know, where her child was

939
00:54:40,159 --> 00:54:40,519
in heaven.

940
00:54:40,599 --> 00:54:40,760
Speaker 29: You know.

941
00:54:41,000 --> 00:54:43,800
Speaker 12: I mean I just think that the like visions of

942
00:54:44,320 --> 00:54:47,400
claims of saints at post divine revelation. I'm not saying

943
00:54:47,400 --> 00:54:49,760
they're not true. I just don't know how strong they

944
00:54:49,760 --> 00:54:51,119
are in theological argumentation.

945
00:54:51,679 --> 00:54:51,800
Speaker 5: Uh.

946
00:54:52,239 --> 00:54:55,239
Speaker 12: And then just to add on to that little thing,

947
00:54:55,440 --> 00:54:57,440
because because if you made that like some kind of

948
00:54:57,480 --> 00:55:01,760
knockdown argument, you could conceivably use you know, these kinds

949
00:55:01,800 --> 00:55:04,800
of stories of lives the saints to prove anything. And

950
00:55:04,920 --> 00:55:06,480
that's what that's what a lot of these people do

951
00:55:06,599 --> 00:55:09,320
it's like they'll they'll just go fish out some random

952
00:55:10,159 --> 00:55:13,639
crazy story or some some obscure thing, and then all

953
00:55:13,639 --> 00:55:16,599
of a suddenly it proves their pet heresy. Right, I

954
00:55:16,639 --> 00:55:18,239
would just be leary of that as a Methodist. What

955
00:55:18,239 --> 00:55:20,440
I'm trying to say, Yeah, But and then.

956
00:55:20,880 --> 00:55:22,920
Speaker 34: It doesn't stop there though, with the Saint Virus. Like,

957
00:55:23,000 --> 00:55:27,079
for example, during the time of troubles in Russia, Saint

958
00:55:27,159 --> 00:55:31,840
Hermogenes of Moscow actually told the people of Russia to

959
00:55:32,320 --> 00:55:35,679
like to ask intercessory prayers to Saint Virus on behalf

960
00:55:35,760 --> 00:55:40,199
of their deceased children who were unbaptized. So, you know,

961
00:55:40,800 --> 00:55:43,320
the claim that the Orthodox Church was, like, you know,

962
00:55:44,119 --> 00:55:47,159
was all wrong before that council or whatever that guy

963
00:55:47,239 --> 00:55:48,039
was saying before is.

964
00:55:48,119 --> 00:55:51,280
Speaker 12: Just kind of dumbastic. I mean, that's a schismatic out

965
00:55:51,280 --> 00:55:52,800
of it. But yeah, these are some good points too

966
00:55:52,960 --> 00:55:55,400
that And I mean we put in our discord many

967
00:55:55,480 --> 00:56:01,119
times that there's you know, open prayers, there's liturgical prayers

968
00:56:01,199 --> 00:56:06,239
for unbaptized infants and so forth. So heroes workshop five bucks,

969
00:56:06,360 --> 00:56:09,440
Jesus turned water to wine, Muhammad turned a child into bride.

970
00:56:10,039 --> 00:56:12,960
That's a good point. Five bucks. Will you debate pologia.

971
00:56:13,079 --> 00:56:15,199
People keep asking me this, I mean, tell them to

972
00:56:15,360 --> 00:56:17,480
I don't know who it is, so yeah, sure or whatever.

973
00:56:19,320 --> 00:56:21,159
People think that I set up all these days. Dude,

974
00:56:21,159 --> 00:56:23,119
nobody wants to come debate, so I don't know what

975
00:56:23,360 --> 00:56:29,719
I mean. That isn't like insane site site siege. What's up? Dog?

976
00:56:30,360 --> 00:56:32,559
We hit a shout out to all that audience from

977
00:56:32,599 --> 00:56:34,760
the Crucible. Appreciate you, guys. We got over two thousand,

978
00:56:35,400 --> 00:56:42,440
we got twenty two hundred. Welcome everybody. I'm mute, I'm mute, dude,

979
00:56:43,880 --> 00:56:50,880
Hey Jamie, Jamie, is this your first time on the yeah?

980
00:56:51,039 --> 00:56:56,039
Or that I need a gender to can't take it?

981
00:56:58,159 --> 00:56:59,559
Are you gonna? Unmute? Man? What's up?

982
00:57:00,719 --> 00:57:00,840
Speaker 9: Oh?

983
00:57:00,920 --> 00:57:01,559
Speaker 2: Are you talking to me?

984
00:57:02,679 --> 00:57:02,960
Speaker 9: I guess?

985
00:57:03,039 --> 00:57:03,519
Speaker 12: So what's up?

986
00:57:04,239 --> 00:57:05,039
Speaker 1: Oh? Howdy dare?

987
00:57:05,199 --> 00:57:05,400
Speaker 19: Yeah?

988
00:57:05,480 --> 00:57:09,639
Speaker 8: But you see, I'm an ex cradle Catholic, I think,

989
00:57:10,159 --> 00:57:13,039
and that's a term for it. I just had this

990
00:57:13,519 --> 00:57:15,360
question of first, I can you't hear me because I

991
00:57:15,440 --> 00:57:20,320
know my eye is weird? Yeah, okay, So I hear

992
00:57:20,400 --> 00:57:24,400
this constant with them Orthodox guys saying that I see

993
00:57:24,480 --> 00:57:31,480
that Catholics practice idolatry by praying to Mary. So my question,

994
00:57:34,000 --> 00:57:34,599
but how so.

995
00:57:35,719 --> 00:57:42,039
Speaker 12: You can't be serious. Well, no, I've never heard of

996
00:57:42,119 --> 00:57:47,119
Orthodox It's called Catholics idolatrous because I'm Mary. I mean,

997
00:57:47,159 --> 00:57:51,320
I mean potentially the Roman Catholic doctrines of co redemtrics

998
00:57:51,360 --> 00:57:53,199
could lead to that, But I don't know that is

999
00:57:53,280 --> 00:57:55,679
that sounds like somebody's joking around. Tear on what's up?

1000
00:58:00,199 --> 00:58:05,280
That was somebody doing a good people was a right,

1001
00:58:05,320 --> 00:58:06,760
good what's up?

1002
00:58:06,800 --> 00:58:06,960
Speaker 9: Man?

1003
00:58:08,199 --> 00:58:08,639
Speaker 1: Good question?

1004
00:58:08,760 --> 00:58:11,000
Speaker 35: And so I've been, you know, following some of the

1005
00:58:11,320 --> 00:58:15,760
debate and in the preciposition is debate specifically, and my

1006
00:58:15,960 --> 00:58:21,280
question is why are metaphysical Metaphysical preciposition is not brought.

1007
00:58:21,119 --> 00:58:21,840
Speaker 1: Up in debates.

1008
00:58:23,400 --> 00:58:25,639
Speaker 12: I'll bring them up in almost every debate. So what

1009
00:58:25,719 --> 00:58:26,400
are you talking about?

1010
00:58:28,039 --> 00:58:30,480
Speaker 36: Well, it seems to me that everyone uses them, uh

1011
00:58:31,000 --> 00:58:34,480
kind of Aristotelian the physic where they get.

1012
00:58:37,840 --> 00:58:41,840
Speaker 1: But like Christian the physics seems like it's based on.

1013
00:58:43,760 --> 00:58:46,840
Speaker 36: Relationship first and knowledge in the context of relationship.

1014
00:58:48,199 --> 00:58:49,760
Speaker 12: Yeah, I think you can make that argument, and we've

1015
00:58:49,840 --> 00:58:52,679
we've used that line of argumentation before.

1016
00:58:54,679 --> 00:58:58,239
Speaker 36: So for example, you know, if you're arguing with someone,

1017
00:58:59,480 --> 00:59:03,440
they have a relationship with this idea that that they have,

1018
00:59:03,599 --> 00:59:08,280
which is like you know, and so they're there, their

1019
00:59:08,360 --> 00:59:12,239
communication with you is just rationalizing their h I would

1020
00:59:12,239 --> 00:59:13,000
say affection to.

1021
00:59:13,039 --> 00:59:18,440
Speaker 37: That idea, Okay, so I meaning that, And that's why

1022
00:59:18,639 --> 00:59:21,840
it's more of a spiritual issue. That's that's so much,

1023
00:59:22,039 --> 00:59:26,159
you know, integrated with all these conversations. So people's positions

1024
00:59:26,280 --> 00:59:30,960
is not entirely rational, it's really kind of spiritual connection

1025
00:59:31,119 --> 00:59:31,599
to something.

1026
00:59:32,159 --> 00:59:32,360
Speaker 9: Yeah.

1027
00:59:32,480 --> 00:59:34,320
Speaker 12: I think that's a fair question, and I think a

1028
00:59:34,360 --> 00:59:38,840
lot of people don't understand that their issues might in

1029
00:59:38,960 --> 00:59:42,119
fact be spiritual and not intellectual. But sometimes that's difficult

1030
00:59:42,760 --> 00:59:45,360
to convince people of and so usually debates are for

1031
00:59:45,440 --> 00:59:48,159
the sake of the audience, not the opponent, and that's

1032
00:59:48,199 --> 00:59:51,679
why debates are usually focused on whether the arguments were

1033
00:59:51,719 --> 00:59:54,239
sound or not. So, but that's a I think you're

1034
00:59:54,280 --> 00:59:57,400
right about what's oftentimes going on in the soul of

1035
00:59:57,480 --> 01:00:00,599
the person debating cost. Yeah, what's up man. By the way,

1036
01:00:00,599 --> 01:00:02,840
if you guys want to call in, welcome everybody who

1037
01:00:02,840 --> 01:00:06,800
got like two thousand ish. You can call in through

1038
01:00:07,039 --> 01:00:10,760
the Twitter link right there. If you have a debate challenge.

1039
01:00:10,800 --> 01:00:13,119
If you're a Protestant, if you're a Roman Catholic, if

1040
01:00:13,119 --> 01:00:15,800
you're a Muslim, if you're an atheist, it's open for him.

1041
01:00:16,320 --> 01:00:18,840
Use the link and hit request to speak and I'll

1042
01:00:18,880 --> 01:00:21,400
bring you up. Just got to unmute yourself when you

1043
01:00:21,440 --> 01:00:24,239
get brought up? What's up? Cost you? Unmute yo?

1044
01:00:24,400 --> 01:00:24,800
Speaker 1: What's up?

1045
01:00:25,440 --> 01:00:26,119
Speaker 12: What's on your mind?

1046
01:00:27,719 --> 01:00:29,519
Speaker 1: I want to say, pretty excited about your work with

1047
01:00:29,639 --> 01:00:32,920
Sam Hide. That should be pretty cool. Yeah.

1048
01:00:33,519 --> 01:00:35,039
Speaker 12: What do you think of the first two episodes I

1049
01:00:35,119 --> 01:00:36,199
co wrote on those two.

1050
01:00:37,880 --> 01:00:39,519
Speaker 1: Of the New World Piece or what is it?

1051
01:00:39,840 --> 01:00:39,880
Speaker 21: No?

1052
01:00:40,039 --> 01:00:43,159
Speaker 12: The two the Sam Hide Show, Dear Elon and Dear

1053
01:00:43,280 --> 01:00:44,840
vivek Oh.

1054
01:00:45,000 --> 01:00:48,760
Speaker 1: I didn't know you were involved with those. Yeah, those

1055
01:00:48,800 --> 01:00:49,199
were great.

1056
01:00:49,880 --> 01:00:50,199
Speaker 12: Thanks.

1057
01:00:52,760 --> 01:00:53,679
Speaker 14: Yeah viral too.

1058
01:00:53,960 --> 01:00:55,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, congrats, that's for you. Thank you.

1059
01:00:57,000 --> 01:00:59,880
Speaker 21: I wanted to talk a little bit about Orthodox jurisdiction

1060
01:01:00,000 --> 01:01:00,559
if you don't mind.

1061
01:01:02,440 --> 01:01:04,519
Speaker 12: I mean, I don't mind answering that question, but I

1062
01:01:04,599 --> 01:01:07,880
mean we're not we're not really doing Orthodox problems in

1063
01:01:07,960 --> 01:01:10,800
inner disputes. Is it about like where do I go

1064
01:01:10,880 --> 01:01:12,440
to church? Or what's the question?

1065
01:01:13,360 --> 01:01:15,559
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, I know you're like ro corps.

1066
01:01:15,559 --> 01:01:18,039
Speaker 21: I just wanted to get some some more take coun

1067
01:01:18,159 --> 01:01:22,280
not like personally, I don't believe in canonical territory, and

1068
01:01:23,639 --> 01:01:26,039
I know the US and a complex situation right now.

1069
01:01:26,159 --> 01:01:28,360
Speaker 12: But is it what do you what do you mean canonical?

1070
01:01:28,400 --> 01:01:31,719
I don't know what you mean, like in terms.

1071
01:01:31,519 --> 01:01:35,039
Speaker 1: Of jurisdiction, should have strict geographic.

1072
01:01:34,559 --> 01:01:39,480
Speaker 12: Lines, okay, but I mean America is an oddball, unique

1073
01:01:39,519 --> 01:01:42,679
situation that doesn't fit history, So we don't want to.

1074
01:01:43,320 --> 01:01:49,519
Speaker 28: Canon law works to their rules that are applied, you know,

1075
01:01:49,639 --> 01:01:53,599
on most situations. But you're going to get cases that

1076
01:01:53,719 --> 01:01:55,119
it's like, well it's not going.

1077
01:01:55,039 --> 01:01:59,960
Speaker 1: To work here. Yeah, absolutely, that's what that economy is necessary.

1078
01:02:00,239 --> 01:02:04,480
Speaker 21: But as as latey, I mean, shouldn't we work towards

1079
01:02:05,079 --> 01:02:06,719
you know, meeting that that norm.

1080
01:02:08,280 --> 01:02:10,400
Speaker 12: Well, the problem is that in America the U. S.

1081
01:02:10,440 --> 01:02:12,599
State Department and the CIA try to have a huge

1082
01:02:12,679 --> 01:02:15,239
influence on the jurisdictions and try to tell them what

1083
01:02:15,360 --> 01:02:17,360
to do and what direction to go, which is you

1084
01:02:17,360 --> 01:02:20,079
can imagine as skittles and that kind of stuff. So

1085
01:02:20,679 --> 01:02:24,079
you know, we don't want one giant jurisdiction right now.

1086
01:02:25,079 --> 01:02:25,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's fair.

1087
01:02:25,800 --> 01:02:27,599
Speaker 21: I was in a go Arts church a couple of

1088
01:02:27,639 --> 01:02:31,199
weeks ago and they had pictures of like their metropolitan

1089
01:02:31,320 --> 01:02:32,320
with the pope all around.

1090
01:02:32,320 --> 01:02:36,159
Speaker 12: It was weird, right, that's where if you if you

1091
01:02:36,239 --> 01:02:40,320
have you know, the U. S. State Department running and

1092
01:02:40,400 --> 01:02:43,320
telling all the Orthodox churches under one giant jurisdiction what

1093
01:02:43,440 --> 01:02:44,519
to do. That's what you're going to get.

1094
01:02:45,440 --> 01:02:49,400
Speaker 21: Yeah, yeah, that's fair, all right, I just want to

1095
01:02:49,400 --> 01:02:52,559
get I know you're a ro corps like I.

1096
01:02:53,079 --> 01:02:55,320
Speaker 1: O c A has autocephially. To me, that's a pretty

1097
01:02:55,320 --> 01:02:59,519
strong argument. But yeah, just something I've been thinking about.

1098
01:03:00,039 --> 01:03:01,199
Speaker 12: Strong argument for what.

1099
01:03:02,599 --> 01:03:07,559
Speaker 1: For its jurisdictional kind of primarity?

1100
01:03:07,679 --> 01:03:15,039
Speaker 12: I guess, well, I mean the Russians were here first.

1101
01:03:15,159 --> 01:03:17,480
So look what I don't understand the logic of that.

1102
01:03:20,800 --> 01:03:26,920
Speaker 1: Well, record doesn't have auto stephy though, but what do

1103
01:03:27,039 --> 01:03:27,199
I have?

1104
01:03:27,320 --> 01:03:29,280
Speaker 12: What would I have to do with you said prime, prime,

1105
01:03:29,480 --> 01:03:33,719
prim priority, Well, the Russians came to this count, to

1106
01:03:33,840 --> 01:03:38,119
this continent first, So how do you determine priority just

1107
01:03:38,199 --> 01:03:40,280
because the O c A is supposedly auto stephalos. I

1108
01:03:40,280 --> 01:03:40,679
don't get it.

1109
01:03:42,559 --> 01:03:44,000
Speaker 1: I mean it's a good point. I'm just trying to

1110
01:03:44,039 --> 01:03:45,880
think through these wants.

1111
01:03:46,039 --> 01:03:56,679
Speaker 12: The O c A wants recognition from the EP so anyway,

1112
01:03:56,960 --> 01:03:58,800
I mean, I'm not trying to be a douchebag. I don't,

1113
01:03:58,800 --> 01:04:00,760
I don't know, I don't. I'm not into I'm not

1114
01:04:00,880 --> 01:04:03,880
into canonical stuff. I think that also super boring. So

1115
01:04:04,159 --> 01:04:06,239
I mean, I just it's not my domain. You could

1116
01:04:06,239 --> 01:04:08,519
go ask them about your knows. Cantaloon, I don't know. Doogle,

1117
01:04:08,559 --> 01:04:19,840
what's up? Doogal what's up?

1118
01:04:19,920 --> 01:04:20,119
Speaker 2: Dude?

1119
01:04:21,880 --> 01:04:22,639
Speaker 12: It's open for him?

1120
01:04:23,159 --> 01:04:23,719
Speaker 1: Can you hear me?

1121
01:04:24,119 --> 01:04:24,480
Speaker 12: What's up?

1122
01:04:26,800 --> 01:04:30,320
Speaker 38: First of I just want to say I'm a big

1123
01:04:30,400 --> 01:04:33,159
fan and I've been watching some of your videos of

1124
01:04:33,320 --> 01:04:36,320
late you and the Sumpsho Moons and the Christian Prince.

1125
01:04:38,360 --> 01:04:42,119
Speaker 1: I just have a question about Orthodoxy because if.

1126
01:04:42,039 --> 01:04:45,960
Speaker 38: I'm being honest, I've never a few months ago, I

1127
01:04:46,280 --> 01:04:50,679
actually never heard of orthodoxy. What it's like indifference to

1128
01:04:50,960 --> 01:04:56,880
Roman Catholic titulicism is. So I did a bit of

1129
01:04:57,039 --> 01:05:01,239
research and is it true that to basically, the main

1130
01:05:01,400 --> 01:05:05,960
belief is that the something about the Holy Spirit and

1131
01:05:06,159 --> 01:05:08,719
that the Father can only send it.

1132
01:05:09,119 --> 01:05:10,119
Speaker 3: And not the Son.

1133
01:05:11,199 --> 01:05:14,159
Speaker 12: Yeah, the Father is the sole cause in the trinity,

1134
01:05:14,280 --> 01:05:17,639
and the Son does not participate in his hypostatic property

1135
01:05:17,840 --> 01:05:25,559
of being caused, which is unique to him. That's philioqua correct, Okay, And.

1136
01:05:27,639 --> 01:05:29,760
Speaker 1: I have some questions about.

1137
01:05:31,920 --> 01:05:33,960
Speaker 12: It's open debate today, So I'm not trying to be rude.

1138
01:05:34,000 --> 01:05:36,199
It's not open Q and A for work for people

1139
01:05:36,199 --> 01:05:39,840
who disagree. So if you disagree about Protestantism with alicism, atheism,

1140
01:05:39,880 --> 01:05:41,840
and it's hard to understand what you're saying. I'm not

1141
01:05:41,880 --> 01:05:48,719
trying to be rude, Matt. What's up? Robert Dryer five dollars?

1142
01:05:49,079 --> 01:05:53,519
I need a comment relational ontology approaches to Christianity, like

1143
01:05:53,639 --> 01:05:58,920
making God just a relation, like Zizzelus and Balthazar. I

1144
01:05:59,000 --> 01:06:01,519
think you can go too far with relational ontology. But

1145
01:06:01,639 --> 01:06:04,599
I mean it's relational when you read uh Father stun

1146
01:06:04,719 --> 01:06:08,360
Eloy in Orthodox dogmatics. But no, I don't think. I

1147
01:06:08,440 --> 01:06:10,440
think people like zizzel let's go too far with it.

1148
01:06:10,639 --> 01:06:16,760
What's up man, Matt? Hey, j how are you good?

1149
01:06:16,800 --> 01:06:17,719
What's on your mind today?

1150
01:06:17,920 --> 01:06:18,079
Speaker 9: Hey?

1151
01:06:18,400 --> 01:06:20,840
Speaker 12: How are you good? What's on your mind today?

1152
01:06:21,559 --> 01:06:22,199
Speaker 1: Just one?

1153
01:06:23,119 --> 01:06:27,840
Speaker 7: One quick question? And and then I suppose just I'm

1154
01:06:27,880 --> 01:06:34,599
a I'm a Protestant or an Acostal, but really love Orthodoxy.

1155
01:06:34,079 --> 01:06:35,079
Speaker 9: And love what you do.

1156
01:06:39,159 --> 01:06:39,800
Speaker 12: You're cutting out.

1157
01:06:40,440 --> 01:06:43,199
Speaker 14: I was having a discussion with someone regarding.

1158
01:06:44,239 --> 01:06:44,519
Speaker 1: TAG.

1159
01:06:45,519 --> 01:06:48,000
Speaker 14: I was having a discussion with someone regarding tagh.

1160
01:06:50,159 --> 01:06:57,079
Speaker 12: Okay, okay, are there tag?

1161
01:06:58,840 --> 01:06:59,039
Speaker 9: Yeah?

1162
01:06:59,119 --> 01:07:00,400
Speaker 1: Can you hear me yet?

1163
01:07:00,519 --> 01:07:01,199
Speaker 12: What about tag?

1164
01:07:01,920 --> 01:07:03,119
Speaker 1: It's merely a language?

1165
01:07:06,000 --> 01:07:08,280
Speaker 12: You're you're gone, man, I can't I can't hear you. Sorry,

1166
01:07:09,960 --> 01:07:12,239
So it's open for him. We got almost ninety people.

1167
01:07:12,440 --> 01:07:15,840
If you would like to debate, you can come to

1168
01:07:15,880 --> 01:07:18,199
the head of the line and your hit request to speak.

1169
01:07:18,679 --> 01:07:22,599
I'll remind everybody in the chat we've got still we've

1170
01:07:22,599 --> 01:07:26,119
got thirteen hundred. Now, if you want to call in,

1171
01:07:26,440 --> 01:07:29,599
call in through the Twitter link right here. I'll put

1172
01:07:29,599 --> 01:07:31,119
it in the chat again for you guys, if you're

1173
01:07:31,159 --> 01:07:35,679
watching the the livestream chat right here, call in right there,

1174
01:07:36,519 --> 01:07:42,159
hit request to speak, and I'll bring you up. He

1175
01:07:42,239 --> 01:07:45,000
said Pentecostal. I was hoping we can maybe get into

1176
01:07:45,039 --> 01:07:48,679
that because you know, when you go to Acts and

1177
01:07:48,760 --> 01:07:56,000
you look at the Book of Acts, if you look

1178
01:07:56,039 --> 01:08:03,599
at Acts two, the only way that Acts two makes

1179
01:08:03,639 --> 01:08:08,320
sense is if this is known languages, and that matters

1180
01:08:08,360 --> 01:08:13,280
because it means it's not gibberish. So, for example, at

1181
01:08:13,360 --> 01:08:18,600
Isaiah twenty eight and twenty nine, we read about these

1182
01:08:18,640 --> 01:08:22,800
events that are going to happen in the Messianic era.

1183
01:08:22,920 --> 01:08:26,399
So this is a prophecy of Pentecost. The Lord has

1184
01:08:26,439 --> 01:08:28,640
poured out upon you, and this is talking about the

1185
01:08:28,720 --> 01:08:32,159
disobedience of the Jews. At this time, and also in

1186
01:08:32,239 --> 01:08:35,079
the time of Christ the Messianic era, pause and wonder.

1187
01:08:35,159 --> 01:08:37,199
Blind yourselves and be drunk blind. They are drunk, but

1188
01:08:37,279 --> 01:08:39,880
not with wine. They stagger, but not with intoxicating drink.

1189
01:08:39,920 --> 01:08:41,640
The Lord has poured out upon them a spirit of

1190
01:08:41,680 --> 01:08:44,600
deep sleep and has closed your eyes, namely the prophets.

1191
01:08:44,640 --> 01:08:47,520
He's covered your heads, namely the seers. It's in other words,

1192
01:08:47,840 --> 01:08:50,239
this is a contrast to the pouring out of the

1193
01:08:50,279 --> 01:08:54,600
spirit upon the apostles at Pentecost, as we'll see in

1194
01:08:54,640 --> 01:08:57,560
a minute. Contrast it to the pouring out of a

1195
01:08:57,880 --> 01:09:01,960
delusion and a blindness to those that don't believe. The

1196
01:09:02,039 --> 01:09:04,560
whole vision is like words of a book that are sealed,

1197
01:09:05,439 --> 01:09:08,199
and men deliver it to one who is literate and

1198
01:09:08,239 --> 01:09:10,800
say read this police, and he says, I can. It's sealed.

1199
01:09:11,640 --> 01:09:13,600
Then the book is delivered to one who's illiterate, and

1200
01:09:13,640 --> 01:09:17,920
they say read this, and he says, I can. I'm illiterate. Therefore,

1201
01:09:17,960 --> 01:09:20,199
the Lord sayss inasmuch as these people draw near to

1202
01:09:20,279 --> 01:09:22,399
me with their hearts with their mouths, but and they

1203
01:09:22,479 --> 01:09:24,239
arm me with their lips, their hearts are far from me.

1204
01:09:25,039 --> 01:09:28,399
Jesus quotes that very passage describing it as a contemporary

1205
01:09:28,439 --> 01:09:30,359
prophecy for his day. So we know this is not

1206
01:09:30,640 --> 01:09:37,000
just Isaiah's day. It also applies to the Messianic arrival era. Therefore, behold,

1207
01:09:37,079 --> 01:09:39,800
I will do a marvelous thing among these people, a

1208
01:09:39,960 --> 01:09:44,199
wonder the wisdom of the wise will perish. The understanding

1209
01:09:44,199 --> 01:09:48,119
of the prudent will be hidden, and that those who have,

1210
01:09:48,680 --> 01:09:51,840
those who seek deep to hide their counsel from the Lord.

1211
01:09:52,359 --> 01:09:54,800
They say, who sees us, who knows it? Surely those

1212
01:09:54,840 --> 01:09:58,319
things turn around. And then it goes on to say

1213
01:09:58,399 --> 01:10:06,319
that God will provide for them. He will fulfill his

1214
01:10:06,399 --> 01:10:10,399
promises to them. They will eventually hallow his name, and

1215
01:10:10,600 --> 01:10:12,800
they will learn true doctrine. And then we go back

1216
01:10:12,840 --> 01:10:23,640
to twenty eight and it says that who will teach knowledge,

1217
01:10:23,680 --> 01:10:26,279
who will make unders to understand this message? Just the

1218
01:10:26,399 --> 01:10:29,199
chapter right before those wean from milk and drawn from

1219
01:10:29,239 --> 01:10:32,800
the breasts, precept upon precept, line upon line, here, a

1220
01:10:32,840 --> 01:10:36,000
little there, a little for with a stammering lip and

1221
01:10:36,079 --> 01:10:40,399
another tongue, he will speak to this people. Okay, this

1222
01:10:40,640 --> 01:10:45,000
is a prophecy of Pentecost and the fulfillment of Pentecost,

1223
01:10:46,159 --> 01:10:52,239
that when the apostles preach, right, this will be the

1224
01:10:52,359 --> 01:10:56,640
outpouring that Joel prophesied, and in contrast, the Jews will

1225
01:10:56,680 --> 01:10:59,239
have a delusion and a blindness poured out upon them

1226
01:10:59,359 --> 01:11:03,359
in this generation as a punishment. Right. So these are

1227
01:11:03,439 --> 01:11:09,359
prophecies of Pentecost. But it is not gibberish. It is

1228
01:11:09,439 --> 01:11:15,760
another tongue by which He speaks to this people, and

1229
01:11:15,880 --> 01:11:17,720
that means it's a known language. So when I come

1230
01:11:17,760 --> 01:11:19,880
over to Acts two and I compare that to what's

1231
01:11:19,960 --> 01:11:24,319
in Isaiah twenty eight and twenty nine, and we know

1232
01:11:24,399 --> 01:11:28,560
it's a prophecy that day. This is not gibberish. It's

1233
01:11:28,600 --> 01:11:34,279
not an angel language, which Pentecostals all believe. It's known languages.

1234
01:11:34,359 --> 01:11:36,239
How do I know it's no languages. Well, if you

1235
01:11:36,279 --> 01:11:38,800
go to the Orthodox liturgy, especially on the Day of Pentecost,

1236
01:11:38,880 --> 01:11:42,279
you'll read about how it's the reversal of Babel. Babel

1237
01:11:42,680 --> 01:11:45,760
is where God divides the nations and confuses the languages.

1238
01:11:47,319 --> 01:11:49,680
Here is the reversal of that. But that reversal is

1239
01:11:49,760 --> 01:11:53,680
in the Kingdom of the Church, you see. So it

1240
01:11:53,840 --> 01:11:57,319
cannot be gibberish languages or else. It is not a

1241
01:11:57,600 --> 01:12:00,359
sign to the Jews that God is speaking to them

1242
01:12:01,960 --> 01:12:05,560
through the hearing universally all people that are hearing the

1243
01:12:05,680 --> 01:12:11,760
same message, that's the miracle. Thus, pentecost is not gibberish

1244
01:12:11,880 --> 01:12:15,880
like Pentecostals do. In other words, if it's gibberish, it

1245
01:12:16,039 --> 01:12:20,800
destroys all of these prophetic fulfillment elements. You want to

1246
01:12:20,800 --> 01:12:30,800
try again, brothermore, go ahead.

1247
01:12:33,000 --> 01:12:37,359
Speaker 10: Yeah, so happy to talk on pentecostalism, but I just

1248
01:12:37,399 --> 01:12:41,960
wanted to quickly ask you about tag when when I

1249
01:12:42,079 --> 01:12:42,520
was having the.

1250
01:12:44,560 --> 01:12:50,760
Speaker 14: Talk with someone when I'm talking about logic, his argument was,

1251
01:12:50,840 --> 01:12:52,359
logic is merely just a.

1252
01:12:52,479 --> 01:12:56,880
Speaker 10: Language that we interpret, and I was trying to work

1253
01:12:56,920 --> 01:12:58,039
a way around that, and.

1254
01:12:58,039 --> 01:12:59,279
Speaker 14: I was trying to get into the kind of like

1255
01:12:59,439 --> 01:13:01,079
the logic that you talk of.

1256
01:13:02,359 --> 01:13:04,680
Speaker 7: What what would be just your approach on that, and

1257
01:13:04,720 --> 01:13:06,960
then I can talk about Pentecostalism if you want.

1258
01:13:07,560 --> 01:13:09,800
Speaker 12: Well, I mean to just say it's just a language

1259
01:13:10,079 --> 01:13:13,479
doesn't do much to I mean, that makes it just

1260
01:13:13,680 --> 01:13:17,279
something subjective or tokenized or human creation, and so it's

1261
01:13:17,319 --> 01:13:21,159
not actually talking about the ontological status of it, and

1262
01:13:21,319 --> 01:13:23,039
it's not it's not going to do him much good

1263
01:13:23,119 --> 01:13:26,880
to just say it's just that, right, because how is

1264
01:13:26,920 --> 01:13:29,760
it universal if it's just a social construct or a

1265
01:13:29,840 --> 01:13:30,640
human construct.

1266
01:13:31,800 --> 01:13:32,479
Speaker 1: Well, I said to.

1267
01:13:32,560 --> 01:13:34,720
Speaker 7: Him, I said, so does that mean then if it's

1268
01:13:34,800 --> 01:13:38,600
no human minds, then that logic doesn't exist? And then

1269
01:13:38,680 --> 01:13:42,119
he just went into basically, well, how do you justify

1270
01:13:42,199 --> 01:13:43,439
the words that you're using now?

1271
01:13:43,520 --> 01:13:45,039
Speaker 1: And I was just like what, So that kind of

1272
01:13:45,079 --> 01:13:45,640
threw me a bit.

1273
01:13:46,800 --> 01:13:48,920
Speaker 12: How do you justify the words you're using? I don't

1274
01:13:48,960 --> 01:13:53,600
how would that? I know, I know anyway, but.

1275
01:13:53,680 --> 01:13:56,920
Speaker 10: Yeah, just on your point on X, I agree with

1276
01:13:57,079 --> 01:14:02,119
you as that it is other languages to the Jews.

1277
01:14:02,479 --> 01:14:05,199
Speaker 14: That is a sign from Isaiah.

1278
01:14:05,760 --> 01:14:10,039
Speaker 7: And I would also probably I don't know what your

1279
01:14:10,079 --> 01:14:12,840
thoughts are on this, but you've also got the gift

1280
01:14:12,880 --> 01:14:14,680
of interpretation of tongues as well.

1281
01:14:14,920 --> 01:14:17,479
Speaker 12: Yeah, that's people who have the ability to understand and

1282
01:14:17,600 --> 01:14:18,560
interpret languages.

1283
01:14:20,479 --> 01:14:23,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, but would that also apply to acts?

1284
01:14:23,319 --> 01:14:28,720
Speaker 14: So, for example, would they also be interpreting.

1285
01:14:29,159 --> 01:14:34,239
Speaker 10: The tongue that they all speak and they're hearing it

1286
01:14:34,479 --> 01:14:36,079
all in their own language.

1287
01:14:36,520 --> 01:14:38,199
Speaker 12: I mean, it seems to be saying that in Acts

1288
01:14:38,239 --> 01:14:41,039
and Acts two Acts two at Pentecost is a unique

1289
01:14:41,319 --> 01:14:44,920
miracle again reversing babble, and it's a sign of the

1290
01:14:45,039 --> 01:14:47,920
Jews in Isaiah twenty eight twenty nine and other passages. Right,

1291
01:14:48,039 --> 01:14:51,000
So that's I think a unique situation where we're not

1292
01:14:51,119 --> 01:14:56,439
gonna be seeing Pentecosts like Acts two for the rest

1293
01:14:56,479 --> 01:14:59,239
of the church period. Acts two is a fulfillment of

1294
01:14:59,399 --> 01:15:02,439
the feast of youths and the feast of weeks of

1295
01:15:02,560 --> 01:15:06,479
the Old Testament calendar. So it's a unique redemptive historical event.

1296
01:15:06,520 --> 01:15:09,680
It's not to be repeated, except that in the Orthodox

1297
01:15:09,760 --> 01:15:13,319
Church we do believe that chrismation is your own personal Pentecost,

1298
01:15:13,680 --> 01:15:16,079
So in that sense it's repeated, but it's not repeated

1299
01:15:16,159 --> 01:15:17,279
for the collective church.

1300
01:15:19,159 --> 01:15:19,399
Speaker 9: Yeah.

1301
01:15:19,560 --> 01:15:24,000
Speaker 14: I mean the next point we see is with Cornelius.

1302
01:15:24,039 --> 01:15:25,680
Speaker 1: When they.

1303
01:15:27,039 --> 01:15:29,760
Speaker 12: Yeah, but again that's that's not Pentecost. That's a sign

1304
01:15:29,960 --> 01:15:33,000
to the Jews that gentiles can to receive the Holy Spirit.

1305
01:15:33,399 --> 01:15:36,720
That's a unique redemptive historical event during this transition period

1306
01:15:36,760 --> 01:15:38,039
from Old Testament to New Testament.

1307
01:15:39,359 --> 01:15:44,600
Speaker 10: Yeah, but you see that with So back to the Acts.

1308
01:15:45,640 --> 01:15:48,439
They speaking in other tongues. Some people say, I can't

1309
01:15:48,520 --> 01:15:50,840
understand this stuff. They're or drunk or whatever, but other

1310
01:15:50,880 --> 01:15:53,720
people say, no, we hear them in our own language.

1311
01:15:53,960 --> 01:15:55,159
Speaker 12: Right, that's a miracle.

1312
01:15:55,239 --> 01:15:55,439
Speaker 9: True.

1313
01:15:56,520 --> 01:16:00,399
Speaker 10: Yeah, you can either take the position that, oh, tell

1314
01:16:00,439 --> 01:16:00,960
me if I'm wrong.

1315
01:16:01,079 --> 01:16:02,640
Speaker 12: Okay, but hold on. But see, but none of that

1316
01:16:02,720 --> 01:16:06,920
has anything to do with Pentecostalism. Okay, Today's pentecostalism is

1317
01:16:07,000 --> 01:16:10,000
like Montanism. Are you familiar with the heresy of Montanism?

1318
01:16:11,199 --> 01:16:11,399
Speaker 18: Yeah?

1319
01:16:11,520 --> 01:16:14,439
Speaker 10: Yeah, but it's without the and that's where NAR and

1320
01:16:14,520 --> 01:16:16,840
all that kind of stuff creeps back in as well.

1321
01:16:17,079 --> 01:16:22,920
What what is that the NAR New Apostolic Reformation guys,

1322
01:16:23,000 --> 01:16:25,840
you know, the prophetic Apostolic guys.

1323
01:16:26,960 --> 01:16:28,720
Speaker 12: I don't know who any of that is. Are you

1324
01:16:28,760 --> 01:16:31,640
talking about like the Azuoza Street Revival in California?

1325
01:16:33,119 --> 01:16:35,119
Speaker 10: No, no, no, this is this is recent. This is

1326
01:16:35,319 --> 01:16:39,079
like through guys like Peter Wagner, Bill Johnson.

1327
01:16:39,199 --> 01:16:40,600
Speaker 12: I don't know. I don't know who these people are.

1328
01:16:40,680 --> 01:16:42,760
I mean, what I'm getting at is like the this

1329
01:16:42,960 --> 01:16:45,520
is all old heresy condemned in the days of the

1330
01:16:45,600 --> 01:16:48,199
second century. It's the third century of the Church. So

1331
01:16:48,359 --> 01:16:51,039
I don't I don't understand, Like what I mean that right,

1332
01:16:51,079 --> 01:16:53,199
there should be the undoing of the whole thing, like

1333
01:16:53,359 --> 01:16:54,880
Pentecostalism is totally false.

1334
01:16:56,199 --> 01:17:00,800
Speaker 10: Well, no, they were condemned for thephes of.

1335
01:17:00,880 --> 01:17:05,560
Speaker 1: Being on par with Scripture, not with ecstatic speech or.

1336
01:17:05,880 --> 01:17:08,640
Speaker 12: No, that's not true, that's not true, that's not true.

1337
01:17:09,279 --> 01:17:12,039
There's no there's no new divine revelation after the death

1338
01:17:12,039 --> 01:17:14,079
of Apostles, And there's many places in the New Testament

1339
01:17:14,199 --> 01:17:16,319
that that make it clear that there's not going to

1340
01:17:16,359 --> 01:17:18,880
be new, ongoing divine revelations. And if that's the case,

1341
01:17:20,079 --> 01:17:23,880
I agree, well they're not under That means that Pentecostalism

1342
01:17:24,000 --> 01:17:27,439
is false, because Pentecostalism pauses that God directly gives you

1343
01:17:27,600 --> 01:17:29,159
new revelations.

1344
01:17:30,920 --> 01:17:34,840
Speaker 14: On what has already been revealed, bringing greater understanding.

1345
01:17:34,960 --> 01:17:37,720
Speaker 12: No, there's plenty, there's no, that's not true. There's countless

1346
01:17:37,720 --> 01:17:41,159
Pentecostals who claim to prophesy and give words of prophecy

1347
01:17:41,239 --> 01:17:44,720
to people individually, and it's all bologny, it's all delusion.

1348
01:17:44,960 --> 01:17:46,760
And by the way, many of them are not. Look,

1349
01:17:46,800 --> 01:17:48,800
it's not in the Orthodox Church. I mean, you can't

1350
01:17:48,840 --> 01:17:52,479
have this stuff without Orthodoxy, So that right there discounts

1351
01:17:52,520 --> 01:17:52,800
all of it.

1352
01:17:53,920 --> 01:17:57,159
Speaker 1: So so am I hearing you right? In Orthodoxy there

1353
01:17:57,279 --> 01:18:00,279
is no more kind of prophetic utter.

1354
01:18:00,760 --> 01:18:03,600
Speaker 12: There are miracles, and there's clairvoreants, but there is no

1355
01:18:03,760 --> 01:18:08,039
new divine revelation. And so that cuts off, Yeah.

1356
01:18:08,000 --> 01:18:10,880
Speaker 14: We would believe that as well as Pentecostals. We wouldn't believe.

1357
01:18:10,960 --> 01:18:11,760
Speaker 12: But that's not true.

1358
01:18:12,399 --> 01:18:12,960
Speaker 9: No, you do not.

1359
01:18:13,079 --> 01:18:17,000
Speaker 12: You believe that there's people speaking with the Holy Spirit,

1360
01:18:17,720 --> 01:18:20,840
and it's if the Holy Spirit speaks, that's divine revelation.

1361
01:18:21,560 --> 01:18:25,279
But the people in Pentecostalism who pronounce word of prophecy

1362
01:18:25,600 --> 01:18:28,960
or whatever like, that's not the Holy Spirit speaking.

1363
01:18:30,279 --> 01:18:32,600
Speaker 10: Yeah, gotch you So you mean, like for example, just

1364
01:18:32,680 --> 01:18:36,039
a case example, like when a lot of the prophetic

1365
01:18:36,119 --> 01:18:40,279
guys in the Pentecostal little circles basically said, are Trump's

1366
01:18:40,279 --> 01:18:41,960
going to get in in two thousand?

1367
01:18:41,960 --> 01:18:45,000
Speaker 12: And it doesn't matter Like I've been to Pentecostal churches before,

1368
01:18:45,119 --> 01:18:47,520
I've been to many different groups of pact. Yeah, I've

1369
01:18:47,560 --> 01:18:51,000
been to different Pentecostal groups. And I mean, if you're

1370
01:18:51,000 --> 01:18:55,399
not even mostly I'm not gonna this is enough of this.

1371
01:18:55,560 --> 01:19:03,399
I mean, yell at me, canmule. It's the heresy of Montonism.

1372
01:19:03,479 --> 01:19:06,199
And if you disagree, well then we will have to disagree.

1373
01:19:06,319 --> 01:19:08,079
I don't know what else to tell you. And it's

1374
01:19:08,319 --> 01:19:14,960
montanous was condemned also for ecstatic expression. Let's look at

1375
01:19:15,000 --> 01:19:17,159
let's read this convinced that the end of the world

1376
01:19:17,279 --> 01:19:20,920
was at hand. That's most Pentecostals. The New Jerusalem was

1377
01:19:20,920 --> 01:19:24,720
about to descend to the village of Pepoosa, So he's

1378
01:19:24,760 --> 01:19:29,960
a premillennial. John Hagee Pentecostal Montanus established a rigorous morality

1379
01:19:30,000 --> 01:19:32,640
to pureify Christians and attach them from their material desires.

1380
01:19:33,079 --> 01:19:37,399
Criticism of Montanus and his movement consequently emphasize the New

1381
01:19:37,520 --> 01:19:43,399
prophecy's unorthodox ecstatic expression and his rejection of the bishop's

1382
01:19:43,479 --> 01:19:46,680
role as divinely appointed. So it is premised on the

1383
01:19:46,800 --> 01:19:49,720
rejection of Appasaoltic succession and authority in the Church that

1384
01:19:49,920 --> 01:19:53,640
was rejected way back in the second century when the

1385
01:19:53,720 --> 01:19:58,600
Church rejected Montanism and all Pentecostalism. Is is this same

1386
01:19:59,079 --> 01:20:03,039
delusion represented? And if you disagree, I'm sorry. It's like

1387
01:20:03,920 --> 01:20:05,279
it should be clear this day. I don't know what

1388
01:20:05,359 --> 01:20:06,720
to tell you. What's up?

1389
01:20:06,760 --> 01:20:06,920
Speaker 1: Man?

1390
01:20:07,000 --> 01:20:07,199
Speaker 9: Can you?

1391
01:20:08,039 --> 01:20:12,680
Speaker 12: I'm mute, can mule?

1392
01:20:19,039 --> 01:20:19,199
Speaker 3: Oh?

1393
01:20:19,319 --> 01:20:19,520
Speaker 9: Hello?

1394
01:20:19,720 --> 01:20:19,960
Speaker 1: Hello?

1395
01:20:20,159 --> 01:20:20,399
Speaker 11: Hello?

1396
01:20:21,000 --> 01:20:21,319
Speaker 3: Sorry?

1397
01:20:22,159 --> 01:20:22,319
Speaker 1: Come?

1398
01:20:22,399 --> 01:20:24,039
Speaker 12: Well, okay, what's up?

1399
01:20:24,079 --> 01:20:24,239
Speaker 17: Man?

1400
01:20:25,159 --> 01:20:25,640
Speaker 12: Oh man?

1401
01:20:25,760 --> 01:20:26,640
Speaker 1: Someone's texting me?

1402
01:20:27,279 --> 01:20:31,119
Speaker 12: Let me you said, I don't I don't know how

1403
01:20:31,159 --> 01:20:31,640
to pronounce that.

1404
01:20:31,760 --> 01:20:32,039
Speaker 1: What what?

1405
01:20:32,520 --> 01:20:32,960
Speaker 12: What's up?

1406
01:20:33,000 --> 01:20:35,920
Speaker 1: It's all right, It's all right, Jah, it's all right.

1407
01:20:38,520 --> 01:20:40,239
Speaker 39: Why do you keep a lot of the time, when

1408
01:20:40,239 --> 01:20:43,239
you speak about like foreign influence into an Orthodox church,

1409
01:20:43,319 --> 01:20:45,319
you always point to NATO, Like.

1410
01:20:45,359 --> 01:20:46,119
Speaker 17: Why do you do this?

1411
01:20:47,279 --> 01:20:49,279
Speaker 12: Because I'm at Schill and I work for Putin, so

1412
01:20:49,479 --> 01:20:51,199
good job. You want to clip that, put it on

1413
01:20:51,279 --> 01:20:54,359
your two hundred follower channel. Put it on your twound

1414
01:20:54,439 --> 01:21:08,680
follower channel. Paula, what's up, Paula? You want to I mute?

1415
01:21:09,960 --> 01:21:13,920
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, hello, can you hear me?

1416
01:21:15,319 --> 01:21:16,279
Speaker 12: Are you drinking wine?

1417
01:21:17,319 --> 01:21:17,960
Speaker 23: No, not at all.

1418
01:21:18,000 --> 01:21:21,199
Speaker 3: I just I've never called in. No no boxed wine,

1419
01:21:21,279 --> 01:21:24,840
no so aproa pos of all.

1420
01:21:24,800 --> 01:21:26,720
Speaker 40: The Pentecostal stuff.

1421
01:21:28,439 --> 01:21:29,920
Speaker 3: I well, I wanted to thank.

1422
01:21:29,760 --> 01:21:32,640
Speaker 40: You because, like I ended up becoming Orthodox because I

1423
01:21:32,960 --> 01:21:35,840
listened to your stuff for years. And it's actually kind

1424
01:21:35,880 --> 01:21:39,520
of odd because I'm from a Romanian family.

1425
01:21:40,399 --> 01:21:41,439
Speaker 3: But we're Baptists.

1426
01:21:42,319 --> 01:21:45,239
Speaker 40: Interesting, well, they're a Baptists from Transylvania, and all the

1427
01:21:45,319 --> 01:21:47,720
people I grew up around that were Romanian.

1428
01:21:47,840 --> 01:21:54,560
Speaker 12: Baptiste Baptist Dracula Baptula pretty much Bractised Dractist Dractice Baptist

1429
01:21:54,720 --> 01:21:57,239
Order of the Holy Order of Baptist Dracula followers.

1430
01:21:57,279 --> 01:22:01,960
Speaker 40: Go ahead, Yeah, It's been really interesting because growing up

1431
01:22:02,079 --> 01:22:05,199
like I was like really alienated from Orthodoxy, and until

1432
01:22:05,239 --> 01:22:07,359
I was about like twenty eight or so, I didn't

1433
01:22:07,359 --> 01:22:11,039
go into an Orthodox church, and it was only like

1434
01:22:11,239 --> 01:22:13,439
watching your content. I don't know how I found you,

1435
01:22:15,079 --> 01:22:18,119
and then also like interacting with like different people that

1436
01:22:18,159 --> 01:22:21,199
I would like encounter that were discovering Orthodoxy as well.

1437
01:22:22,720 --> 01:22:25,119
I finally decided to go in anyway. So that's that's

1438
01:22:25,199 --> 01:22:28,840
my back. That's why I know a lot of Pentecostals

1439
01:22:28,920 --> 01:22:31,039
and Baptists who are Romanian, if you.

1440
01:22:31,079 --> 01:22:31,600
Speaker 1: Can believe it.

1441
01:22:31,760 --> 01:22:33,520
Speaker 12: Yeah, I mean I I the first time I ever

1442
01:22:33,560 --> 01:22:36,479
went to Orthodox church. It was at Saint Dracula Baptist Church.

1443
01:22:37,319 --> 01:22:41,880
Speaker 40: Saint Dracula Baptist ch I'm joking, no, no, like, yeah,

1444
01:22:41,960 --> 01:22:45,359
that Dracula thing is annoying too, because yeah, we're like

1445
01:22:45,520 --> 01:22:46,520
from Transylvania.

1446
01:22:46,680 --> 01:22:48,720
Speaker 12: I took the hold on. I took the Dracula pill

1447
01:22:48,880 --> 01:22:51,680
years ago. So I suspect that he was Orthodox and

1448
01:22:51,760 --> 01:22:54,239
he's based and he fought Muslim, So I don't believe,

1449
01:22:54,399 --> 01:22:56,159
Like I think Dracula is a good guy.

1450
01:22:56,960 --> 01:22:58,920
Speaker 40: No, he was cool, but I wonder if the pope

1451
01:22:59,000 --> 01:23:00,760
also supported him, So I don't.

1452
01:23:00,600 --> 01:23:03,239
Speaker 12: Know, Like, well, he was in a weird situation of

1453
01:23:03,399 --> 01:23:06,800
like between Uni A and Orthodox. So I don't know exactly,

1454
01:23:07,479 --> 01:23:13,319
but somebody was saying somebody that was his predecessor, Stephen

1455
01:23:13,560 --> 01:23:16,239
the Great, or somebody who's some king that fought Muslims

1456
01:23:17,039 --> 01:23:17,760
was Orthodox.

1457
01:23:18,840 --> 01:23:18,960
Speaker 9: Oh.

1458
01:23:19,039 --> 01:23:21,399
Speaker 40: They were all like, oh, of course, all those princes then,

1459
01:23:21,520 --> 01:23:25,520
you know, in Moldova or whatever you know. And by

1460
01:23:25,600 --> 01:23:29,039
the way, Dracula himself, not to get too off topic.

1461
01:23:28,880 --> 01:23:31,640
Speaker 12: From the debate, the chat is having a blast. The

1462
01:23:31,720 --> 01:23:36,279
Dracula Baptists have evening services. The morning services or the

1463
01:23:36,359 --> 01:23:39,159
morning services are dead, and they're dead because you got

1464
01:23:39,479 --> 01:23:40,840
your blood sucked out of your dog.

1465
01:23:41,800 --> 01:23:44,520
Speaker 40: No, it's so annoying to be Romanian and from transylvan

1466
01:23:44,600 --> 01:23:47,920
Everyone comes up and talks about Dracula because he was

1467
01:23:48,000 --> 01:23:51,920
from Malaysia and he was a prisoner of Hungarians in Transylvania.

1468
01:23:52,039 --> 01:23:55,359
So I don't think he was even like Transylvanian prince

1469
01:23:55,479 --> 01:23:57,960
reely and bram Stoker made a bunch of crap up

1470
01:23:58,000 --> 01:23:58,439
about him.

1471
01:23:58,520 --> 01:24:01,199
Speaker 12: So I don't know what's on your mind.

1472
01:24:01,960 --> 01:24:06,000
Speaker 3: Okay, So that's my background. So I know a lot

1473
01:24:06,039 --> 01:24:07,680
of Romanians who are.

1474
01:24:08,279 --> 01:24:10,880
Speaker 40: Really zealous evangelicals in America.

1475
01:24:11,119 --> 01:24:16,359
Speaker 12: Now Father knows about those two probably he does because

1476
01:24:16,399 --> 01:24:18,319
he's we talked about it. Yeah.

1477
01:24:19,640 --> 01:24:24,159
Speaker 40: Yeah, so it's really hard to like sometimes coming out

1478
01:24:24,199 --> 01:24:28,199
to them as Orthodox is like kind of awkward because

1479
01:24:28,680 --> 01:24:33,079
they think it's idolatrous. They've had experience in Communist Romania

1480
01:24:33,319 --> 01:24:37,319
being the persecuted people who stood up for their faith,

1481
01:24:37,560 --> 01:24:39,680
and when they think of the Orthodox, they think of

1482
01:24:39,920 --> 01:24:44,119
like drunkards, adulterers, people who don't.

1483
01:24:44,039 --> 01:24:45,439
Speaker 1: Like really follow the faith.

1484
01:24:45,760 --> 01:24:48,039
Speaker 3: I don't know. They have a bad experience of it.

1485
01:24:48,439 --> 01:24:49,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, I can tell you all about it.

1486
01:24:50,680 --> 01:24:53,279
Speaker 12: Yeah, well Father Diagan was the Baptist drunkard, so he

1487
01:24:53,319 --> 01:24:54,000
knows all about that.

1488
01:24:54,640 --> 01:24:57,239
Speaker 40: Oh cool, Yeah, I mean I'm glad you are a

1489
01:24:57,399 --> 01:24:58,319
drunkard because.

1490
01:24:58,920 --> 01:25:00,319
Speaker 1: Totals about it.

1491
01:25:00,960 --> 01:25:06,119
Speaker 28: And guess what it was Pentecostals. They they were Romanian Pentecostals.

1492
01:25:06,399 --> 01:25:09,600
Speaker 40: Oh they're so they're so like pure and like they

1493
01:25:09,880 --> 01:25:13,760
call themselves which is like I don't know, like what

1494
01:25:14,159 --> 01:25:16,720
does that mean like reformed or repenters or something.

1495
01:25:18,600 --> 01:25:19,039
Speaker 12: I don't know.

1496
01:25:19,239 --> 01:25:25,079
Speaker 28: But I asked the Orthodox Romanian community like how did

1497
01:25:25,119 --> 01:25:25,840
this even happen?

1498
01:25:25,920 --> 01:25:36,119
Speaker 1: Because I just thought this is what So a couple

1499
01:25:36,159 --> 01:25:41,479
of different things. First of all, none.

1500
01:25:41,319 --> 01:25:44,199
Speaker 28: Of these people were properly kind of key sized they

1501
01:25:44,239 --> 01:25:46,319
were brought up, they probably had weird ideas and like.

1502
01:25:46,399 --> 01:25:52,239
Speaker 1: You said, they might have seen problems with the state during.

1503
01:25:52,079 --> 01:25:55,199
Speaker 28: The tech regime and stuff like that and associated with

1504
01:25:55,359 --> 01:25:56,279
but that they're ignorant.

1505
01:25:56,680 --> 01:26:00,159
Speaker 1: Now, what happened is people in the United States, it's

1506
01:26:00,199 --> 01:26:03,239
made a huge missionary effort, especially.

1507
01:26:02,960 --> 01:26:06,560
Speaker 28: The Pentecostals, to go over and pray on these ignorant people.

1508
01:26:07,520 --> 01:26:13,560
Speaker 1: Now how they came over is that here was the

1509
01:26:13,600 --> 01:26:16,520
additional fact. So if you're in.

1510
01:26:16,520 --> 01:26:19,800
Speaker 28: Another country, you've got to get a visa and have

1511
01:26:19,960 --> 01:26:21,039
somebody sponsor you.

1512
01:26:21,880 --> 01:26:24,840
Speaker 1: And so they have what they call visa families. So

1513
01:26:25,880 --> 01:26:26,680
it was a strategy.

1514
01:26:27,479 --> 01:26:29,760
Speaker 3: I'm from a visa family for Yeah.

1515
01:26:29,880 --> 01:26:33,399
Speaker 28: So there was a strategic attack in which the Pentecostals

1516
01:26:34,720 --> 01:26:39,199
and other Baptists worked basically as missionary from this to

1517
01:26:40,319 --> 01:26:44,520
receive and be visa families, and then they integrated them

1518
01:26:44,520 --> 01:26:47,760
into the community. And being ignorant not accounted key size properly.

1519
01:26:48,920 --> 01:26:51,720
They told them like, oh, well that was all idolatry

1520
01:26:51,800 --> 01:26:53,720
and that was all and.

1521
01:26:53,800 --> 01:26:57,199
Speaker 1: The third important fact too. And you see this with

1522
01:26:57,359 --> 01:26:58,479
other cultures too.

1523
01:27:00,399 --> 01:27:06,199
Speaker 28: This American is some kind of mythology. Many cultures think

1524
01:27:06,239 --> 01:27:09,880
America is just the most wonderful, and a lot of

1525
01:27:09,960 --> 01:27:14,000
people have shame or they're leaving their country behind, their's.

1526
01:27:13,960 --> 01:27:18,079
Speaker 1: Issues, and they don't want to be seen as foreigners.

1527
01:27:18,439 --> 01:27:20,039
I think it's just kind of a natural.

1528
01:27:19,840 --> 01:27:25,560
Speaker 28: Tendency, and because of that they try to adopt certain Americanism.

1529
01:27:25,680 --> 01:27:30,079
This was become a huge issue on the Arabic Christians, especially.

1530
01:27:31,520 --> 01:27:35,279
Speaker 1: The Antiochians, and then really with like the Coptics and

1531
01:27:35,359 --> 01:27:38,159
stuff like that. They just started like Coptics will do

1532
01:27:38,279 --> 01:27:39,960
like praise music and.

1533
01:27:40,079 --> 01:27:40,720
Speaker 36: Stuff like that.

1534
01:27:40,920 --> 01:27:43,840
Speaker 1: And the Coptic people told me that they're like, Oh,

1535
01:27:43,840 --> 01:27:45,600
it's because we're totally insecure and.

1536
01:27:45,600 --> 01:27:47,720
Speaker 28: We don't like our Egyptian heritage and we want to

1537
01:27:47,760 --> 01:27:51,880
be American and they see this kind of narrative of

1538
01:27:52,640 --> 01:27:56,800
this Americanism what it means to be American and evangelical,

1539
01:27:56,960 --> 01:27:59,640
and they want that. So I think it's a combination

1540
01:27:59,800 --> 01:28:02,920
of all those kinds of things that lead to this.

1541
01:28:04,039 --> 01:28:06,119
Speaker 40: Yeah, I wouldn't describe a lot of malice to some

1542
01:28:06,199 --> 01:28:10,159
of these people, because some of the Baptists and Pentecostal

1543
01:28:10,319 --> 01:28:13,560
missionaries and so on probably would have been trying to

1544
01:28:13,720 --> 01:28:15,800
like do good and they would have been told that

1545
01:28:15,920 --> 01:28:20,159
in Communism, Oh, these people couldn't have Bibles an atheist.

1546
01:28:21,680 --> 01:28:27,239
Speaker 12: The CIA utilized the Pentecostals, the Evangelicals, the Baptists throughout

1547
01:28:27,279 --> 01:28:29,560
the Cold War. Absolutely as a form of soft power.

1548
01:28:29,680 --> 01:28:30,840
We've talked about that a lot.

1549
01:28:31,000 --> 01:28:31,800
Speaker 1: I'm sure they did.

1550
01:28:31,960 --> 01:28:34,479
Speaker 40: But the awareness on the level of like individuals, no,

1551
01:28:35,119 --> 01:28:35,920
I know that they don't.

1552
01:28:36,000 --> 01:28:37,520
Speaker 12: So it wouldn't be all of them. It would be

1553
01:28:38,439 --> 01:28:40,560
so in general it would just be soft power, but

1554
01:28:40,640 --> 01:28:44,039
there would be specific you know, agents here and there.

1555
01:28:44,119 --> 01:28:47,079
I'm not saying everybody who's a missionary as a CIA operative. No,

1556
01:28:47,520 --> 01:28:49,479
it's just soft power. But then some of those people

1557
01:28:49,560 --> 01:28:50,520
are actually operatives.

1558
01:28:51,520 --> 01:28:53,119
Speaker 40: Well, I can and I could talk about this for

1559
01:28:53,319 --> 01:28:54,920
like a long time. I don't want to like bore you,

1560
01:28:55,119 --> 01:28:59,640
but like even my grandpa that he was very wild

1561
01:28:59,720 --> 01:29:02,920
as a young man, and he when he became like okay,

1562
01:29:03,079 --> 01:29:06,760
like repentant and whatever this story goes in our family,

1563
01:29:06,880 --> 01:29:09,960
he went to the local Orthodox priest to share about

1564
01:29:10,039 --> 01:29:13,439
his like, uh, you know, his like I don't know

1565
01:29:13,479 --> 01:29:14,720
how to say it, because he had a bit of

1566
01:29:14,840 --> 01:29:19,319
like a bit of a spiritual experience and anyway, and.

1567
01:29:19,840 --> 01:29:21,800
Speaker 3: From what I heard, the priest like he.

1568
01:29:21,880 --> 01:29:25,359
Speaker 40: Started to debate with him about like Scripture and the

1569
01:29:25,439 --> 01:29:27,399
priest banged him on the head with the Bible, and

1570
01:29:28,640 --> 01:29:32,800
so my grandpa like left and he became Baptist. And

1571
01:29:32,920 --> 01:29:34,600
then you know, that's how he met Mikeel.

1572
01:29:34,720 --> 01:29:36,560
Speaker 12: He was trying to get the Baptist demon out of him.

1573
01:29:37,520 --> 01:29:39,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, he was trying to like but see, here's the thing.

1574
01:29:40,279 --> 01:29:41,680
Some of the priests at that time.

1575
01:29:41,760 --> 01:29:43,640
Speaker 40: I mean, like, first of all, Romania probably always had

1576
01:29:43,680 --> 01:29:46,800
a problem with like uneducated priests in a way because

1577
01:29:46,800 --> 01:29:49,399
they would have been drawn from the you know, just

1578
01:29:49,560 --> 01:29:50,279
regular people.

1579
01:29:50,439 --> 01:29:53,199
Speaker 12: Yes, we had a whole argument yesterday in my comments

1580
01:29:53,359 --> 01:29:55,439
that somebody's trying to argue that you have to believe

1581
01:29:55,479 --> 01:29:57,760
in vampire's or you're not Orthodox. I was just like,

1582
01:29:57,840 --> 01:30:00,199
give me, oh God, and he was our but he

1583
01:30:00,239 --> 01:30:03,239
was actually pulling up all this like old Romanian superstition.

1584
01:30:03,399 --> 01:30:06,079
I'm not joking. Yeah, and that there was in two

1585
01:30:06,119 --> 01:30:10,239
thousand and three. Uh, there was a village guy who

1586
01:30:10,479 --> 01:30:15,640
dug up bodies to destroy the heart and the organs

1587
01:30:15,760 --> 01:30:17,119
and then you have to burn it and then the

1588
01:30:17,199 --> 01:30:20,600
villagers have to drink the acid ashes. I'm not joking,

1589
01:30:20,760 --> 01:30:23,640
and like the church told them to stop doing it,

1590
01:30:23,800 --> 01:30:25,840
but the villagers think that that it's real and you

1591
01:30:25,920 --> 01:30:27,000
have to believe in vampires.

1592
01:30:27,279 --> 01:30:36,439
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, I'm gonna ask you, uh like wind?

1593
01:30:38,560 --> 01:30:39,239
Speaker 3: Oh my god?

1594
01:30:39,359 --> 01:30:40,199
Speaker 1: Yeah, they love that.

1595
01:30:40,319 --> 01:30:40,760
Speaker 3: They're great.

1596
01:30:41,000 --> 01:30:43,199
Speaker 1: I remember when I first heard. I'm like, you've got

1597
01:30:43,319 --> 01:30:45,039
to be kidding. So there was a draft.

1598
01:30:45,159 --> 01:30:45,960
Speaker 3: It's just a draft.

1599
01:30:46,760 --> 01:30:48,079
Speaker 12: Is this why they like pentecostal?

1600
01:30:48,279 --> 01:30:48,319
Speaker 9: Like?

1601
01:30:48,439 --> 01:30:53,319
Speaker 12: Is Pentecostalism there? Because the Romanians might like the Romanians

1602
01:30:53,359 --> 01:30:55,479
are like SUPERSTI I'm not dissing all Romanians.

1603
01:30:55,600 --> 01:30:59,039
Speaker 1: I'm saying, you know that, right.

1604
01:31:00,079 --> 01:31:04,079
Speaker 40: Witches at that like threatened the government and stuff when

1605
01:31:04,079 --> 01:31:05,920
they wanted to tax them, and like.

1606
01:31:06,479 --> 01:31:06,920
Speaker 9: I think.

1607
01:31:08,520 --> 01:31:11,920
Speaker 12: You're gonna pay that witch tax. That's a witch tax.

1608
01:31:12,279 --> 01:31:14,359
Hey you gotta. We got a twenty percent witch tax

1609
01:31:14,439 --> 01:31:16,479
in America too. I pay it. I'll pay it every year.

1610
01:31:16,560 --> 01:31:19,199
Speaker 1: And it was like, oh yeah, I'm sick. And I'm like, well, yeah,

1611
01:31:19,199 --> 01:31:23,279
what happened? I got a cold and I was like,

1612
01:31:24,680 --> 01:31:25,439
how did that happen?

1613
01:31:25,960 --> 01:31:28,319
Speaker 28: He's like, I went to the beach from my feet

1614
01:31:28,399 --> 01:31:32,199
got wet and I was like wait what And he's.

1615
01:31:32,039 --> 01:31:34,520
Speaker 1: Like and then the wind blew on my feet. I'm sorry,

1616
01:31:34,640 --> 01:31:37,520
is that unusual? I grew up hearing this. Is that weird?

1617
01:31:38,520 --> 01:31:41,600
For Americans, it's like, yeah, that was the first time

1618
01:31:41,640 --> 01:31:43,760
I've ever heard. I'm like, that's not what cold me.

1619
01:31:43,880 --> 01:31:46,319
Speaker 40: You go to too, Like sure everyone talks like that

1620
01:31:46,840 --> 01:31:47,960
in like old Yeah, And there.

1621
01:31:47,920 --> 01:31:49,720
Speaker 1: Was all kinds of stuff that I was like, you

1622
01:31:49,840 --> 01:31:52,439
actually believe that. Oh yeah, man, never leave.

1623
01:31:52,600 --> 01:31:56,399
Speaker 28: Because especially like places where kay Or lives or like

1624
01:31:56,520 --> 01:32:00,000
if you're from California, it's all about leaving your windows

1625
01:32:00,039 --> 01:32:01,399
and doors open to get a breeze.

1626
01:32:02,800 --> 01:32:06,039
Speaker 40: Yeah, well I'm in California. So yeah, I mean thirty

1627
01:32:06,119 --> 01:32:09,000
years I'm in California. And can you imagine I never

1628
01:32:09,119 --> 01:32:11,640
walked into an Orthodox church because I was like, oh no,

1629
01:32:12,680 --> 01:32:14,039
you know, I grew up Christian.

1630
01:32:14,680 --> 01:32:16,760
Speaker 12: But I was like, oh, I don't like this.

1631
01:32:17,079 --> 01:32:18,439
Speaker 40: I don't like Protestant church.

1632
01:32:18,520 --> 01:32:20,319
Speaker 1: It's like a church by the way, if you don't

1633
01:32:20,359 --> 01:32:23,800
mind me, If you don't, I could I could say.

1634
01:32:23,840 --> 01:32:25,680
Speaker 40: I mean, like, I go to a Greek church. Now,

1635
01:32:25,760 --> 01:32:28,920
I know, I keep hearing about how go arches, you

1636
01:32:29,039 --> 01:32:32,960
know whatever, but it's local. So and I actually got

1637
01:32:33,000 --> 01:32:36,920
baptized in Ireland, well Greek church.

1638
01:32:37,199 --> 01:32:38,560
Speaker 3: And I've gone to.

1639
01:32:38,680 --> 01:32:43,439
Speaker 40: Romanian churches, Russian churches whatever. And I used to I

1640
01:32:43,600 --> 01:32:46,840
used to go to Riverside at Saint Andrew where followers

1641
01:32:46,880 --> 01:32:50,640
is Hiah Trenomus. So I've been all.

1642
01:32:50,600 --> 01:32:56,520
Speaker 12: Over now, all right, So I appreciate your comments rude, but.

1643
01:32:58,720 --> 01:33:03,560
Speaker 40: You really cracks talking to Pentecostals or Baptists. This is

1644
01:33:03,600 --> 01:33:05,640
what I originally called for, in addition to all this

1645
01:33:05,800 --> 01:33:08,720
interesting cultural stuff, was I don't know how to.

1646
01:33:08,800 --> 01:33:09,479
Speaker 3: Like reach them.

1647
01:33:09,600 --> 01:33:11,479
Speaker 40: They like don't really I mean, I just saw my

1648
01:33:11,640 --> 01:33:15,000
job really too, but they're kind of puzzled by me.

1649
01:33:15,199 --> 01:33:19,159
They don't understand, like, and they'll bring up stuff all always.

1650
01:33:18,880 --> 01:33:21,039
Speaker 3: They're bringing up Hebrews or they're like, why is.

1651
01:33:21,039 --> 01:33:23,199
Speaker 1: There a priesthood? All this stuff to you?

1652
01:33:23,279 --> 01:33:25,840
Speaker 40: Any tips of like things to tell them.

1653
01:33:26,000 --> 01:33:29,239
Speaker 12: So Hebrews teaches that there is still a priesthood and

1654
01:33:29,359 --> 01:33:34,520
it's the pre said I Malkisa Dek. The New Testament

1655
01:33:35,159 --> 01:33:38,439
teaches apostolic succession. So you could look up the discussions

1656
01:33:38,439 --> 01:33:41,880
that we've done on epistolic succession and tradition, you know,

1657
01:33:42,159 --> 01:33:44,319
the go listen to the debate that I did with

1658
01:33:44,880 --> 01:33:47,560
doctor Branson and Dale the Protestant, because we go really

1659
01:33:47,600 --> 01:33:51,000
deep into tradition and how tradition is necessary to have

1660
01:33:51,159 --> 01:33:54,279
the Bible. So all these people are just assuming that, like, oh,

1661
01:33:54,359 --> 01:33:56,279
I just quote the Bible and that's all that's needed.

1662
01:33:56,359 --> 01:33:59,760
Speaker 28: But then they believe it you're missing the point. See

1663
01:33:59,800 --> 01:34:02,319
that's all too intellectual. So all those things are really

1664
01:34:02,359 --> 01:34:05,159
important to say to them, but they're not going to

1665
01:34:05,239 --> 01:34:07,680
hear it unless you get a strobe light and a

1666
01:34:07,760 --> 01:34:12,520
fog machine and a guitar while you're telling them this, Noka,

1667
01:34:12,760 --> 01:34:15,199
that's the way they understand stuff, right, You've got to

1668
01:34:15,880 --> 01:34:19,119
bring strobe lights and fog machines and wiggle around and

1669
01:34:19,880 --> 01:34:22,600
do praise music as you're telling them all these facts,

1670
01:34:22,720 --> 01:34:25,239
and then they'll go, I got it.

1671
01:34:25,560 --> 01:34:27,000
Speaker 1: I totally understand what you're saying.

1672
01:34:27,399 --> 01:34:29,720
Speaker 12: Shout out to dem Nash she became a member. Shout

1673
01:34:29,760 --> 01:34:34,119
out to Tiki Tak. Five dollars. Cgd's voice. That's just

1674
01:34:34,199 --> 01:34:35,800
his voice. He's a good guy. Well he can call

1675
01:34:35,880 --> 01:34:39,760
back in then zero we're let's see, I lost this

1676
01:34:40,000 --> 01:34:43,159
zero cool three dollars. Thank you so much, man, Tony

1677
01:34:43,479 --> 01:34:46,279
oh one one six five dollars. They used to be Pentecostal.

1678
01:34:46,399 --> 01:34:48,800
Those people thought they were profits. Of course. I mean

1679
01:34:49,359 --> 01:34:51,720
they believe that they are a continuation of and have

1680
01:34:51,800 --> 01:34:54,640
the gift of prophecy. So this guy telling me that, no,

1681
01:34:54,760 --> 01:34:57,119
they don't believe that. They're not profits. Yes they do

1682
01:34:57,239 --> 01:35:00,600
believe that. And they might say, well, it's not revelation

1683
01:35:00,800 --> 01:35:02,680
like the way the New Testament's revelation. If the Holy

1684
01:35:02,720 --> 01:35:04,520
Spirit is speaking through you, how could it not be

1685
01:35:04,600 --> 01:35:08,159
divine revelation? Is that the fallible speaking of the Holy Spirit.

1686
01:35:08,239 --> 01:35:12,000
But what's in scripture is revelation. It's infallible. You see

1687
01:35:12,000 --> 01:35:15,199
how silly this is. If God is speaking, it's not fallible.

1688
01:35:16,079 --> 01:35:17,880
So for you to say that you have the gift

1689
01:35:17,920 --> 01:35:21,960
of prophecy and you speak for God, no you don't.

1690
01:35:22,039 --> 01:35:27,520
I'm sorry, we don't believe that. So it's nonsense. And

1691
01:35:27,720 --> 01:35:35,239
it doesn't exist outside the Orthodox Church anyway. So and

1692
01:35:35,359 --> 01:35:37,479
I meant to say too, it's not just a matter

1693
01:35:37,600 --> 01:35:41,600
of I mean, the Old Testament office of a prophet

1694
01:35:41,720 --> 01:35:45,239
is done. And when Paul says in the New Testament

1695
01:35:45,319 --> 01:35:47,479
that some people have the gift of prophecy, it's not

1696
01:35:47,560 --> 01:35:50,680
an Old Testament prophet. Jesus says in Luke sixteen that

1697
01:35:50,840 --> 01:35:53,319
John the Baptist was the end of the prophets. There's

1698
01:35:53,359 --> 01:35:57,479
no more Old Testament prophets. There are elder saints people

1699
01:35:57,520 --> 01:36:00,640
like that who have clairvoyance, but that's not new to revelation.

1700
01:36:02,439 --> 01:36:04,960
Otherwise the faith was not once for all delivered to

1701
01:36:05,000 --> 01:36:10,079
the saints. Otherwise, I couldn't use Paul's test to test

1702
01:36:10,159 --> 01:36:12,760
the spirits. Test the spirits to see whether they have

1703
01:36:12,840 --> 01:36:15,239
got what's the test? Do they teach according to what

1704
01:36:15,359 --> 01:36:19,720
Paul taught? Galatians want you see? And the whole thing

1705
01:36:19,960 --> 01:36:23,159
is built on emotions. It's not God speaking through you

1706
01:36:23,239 --> 01:36:26,600
when you do a bunch of gibberish, it's your own emotions.

1707
01:36:27,560 --> 01:36:30,119
In the Book of Jeremiah even says that the heart

1708
01:36:30,199 --> 01:36:33,199
is deceitful and wicked, and the false prophets prophesy and

1709
01:36:33,279 --> 01:36:35,800
a thing of their own imagination, of their own dreams.

1710
01:36:36,319 --> 01:36:38,800
So the very things that a real prophet like Jeremiah

1711
01:36:38,920 --> 01:36:44,960
says about false prophets applies perfectly to Pentecostals and Charismatics

1712
01:36:46,479 --> 01:36:50,199
Upzi six ninety nine. I can't go to church. It's boring.

1713
01:36:50,239 --> 01:36:54,359
I gotta be stimulated. By twenty four to seven. A

1714
01:36:54,439 --> 01:36:56,920
lot of Protestants think that those lights in the churches

1715
01:36:56,920 --> 01:37:00,600
are gay. I hope you're joking. Gifted one membership Javi Dames,

1716
01:37:01,159 --> 01:37:04,000
David James Flood, thank you so much. All right, let's

1717
01:37:04,000 --> 01:37:06,000
see who's next. So we're looking for people who disagree.

1718
01:37:06,800 --> 01:37:08,159
If you disagree, you go to the head of line.

1719
01:37:09,600 --> 01:37:11,680
I'm not mad, and the people who've come to ask questions.

1720
01:37:11,920 --> 01:37:17,640
That always ends up being what happens, But preferably it's

1721
01:37:17,720 --> 01:37:20,399
not catecumin day. It always fills up with cateacumens. So

1722
01:37:20,439 --> 01:37:22,840
we're looking preferbly for people who dissore. If you're a Protestant,

1723
01:37:22,840 --> 01:37:24,239
if you're a macalit like if you're a Muslim, if

1724
01:37:24,239 --> 01:37:27,039
you're an atheist, if you're Mormon, you're a libertarian, feminist, Marxist,

1725
01:37:27,479 --> 01:37:29,199
you go to the head of line. But just try

1726
01:37:29,279 --> 01:37:32,199
to make arguments. I know that's very difficult, very difficult

1727
01:37:32,199 --> 01:37:35,039
to get people to make an argument. An argument is

1728
01:37:35,119 --> 01:37:38,760
not like that arian dude just saying no, no, no, no,

1729
01:37:38,920 --> 01:37:44,000
in asserting your position over Remember Kakuro, what's up?

1730
01:37:45,039 --> 01:37:45,319
Speaker 1: Hello?

1731
01:37:45,720 --> 01:37:49,640
Speaker 39: Yeah, uh, I'm sorry, but I just came here to

1732
01:37:49,680 --> 01:37:50,800
ask a couple of questions.

1733
01:37:50,840 --> 01:37:52,279
Speaker 12: Man, after you went on about what.

1734
01:37:55,720 --> 01:37:56,279
Speaker 18: You said, like.

1735
01:37:59,199 --> 01:38:01,920
Speaker 1: People shouldn't move to the front if they have a disagreement.

1736
01:38:02,840 --> 01:38:06,439
Speaker 39: But yeah, my question question is like, uh, what would

1737
01:38:06,479 --> 01:38:10,279
be considered like appropriate ecumenism, because I know acumenism is

1738
01:38:11,760 --> 01:38:14,000
only allowed in so far as much it would like

1739
01:38:14,439 --> 01:38:16,000
lead someone to Orthodox here.

1740
01:38:16,319 --> 01:38:20,079
Speaker 12: Well, no, that's not that's not the defining, that's not

1741
01:38:20,159 --> 01:38:22,840
the delineation, like because I could say, oh, I'm gonna

1742
01:38:22,840 --> 01:38:24,880
go hang out with my Protestant friend and go to

1743
01:38:24,960 --> 01:38:26,640
his church with him for the next five years to

1744
01:38:26,680 --> 01:38:29,319
try to get him to become Orthodox. No, you cannot

1745
01:38:29,359 --> 01:38:34,760
participate in the public worship services of heterodox and schismatic groups.

1746
01:38:34,800 --> 01:38:40,359
That's like the easiest, like you know, borderline there, knucklehea

1747
01:38:40,399 --> 01:38:41,680
it knock.

1748
01:38:41,520 --> 01:38:41,840
Speaker 1: I hate it.

1749
01:38:44,880 --> 01:38:47,760
Speaker 12: Erica ten dollars. I just started reading Orthodox Dogmatic Theology.

1750
01:38:47,840 --> 01:38:49,119
Thank you for the tip and helping me on my

1751
01:38:49,159 --> 01:38:51,760
journey to Orthodoxy. Yeah, well that's a kind of an

1752
01:38:51,760 --> 01:38:54,800
advanced book. But if you find yourself able to read it,

1753
01:38:54,920 --> 01:39:01,359
then more power to Yeah the champ, the cheap champ.

1754
01:39:01,520 --> 01:39:03,760
Five dollars. This is for the cringe Lord. Thank you

1755
01:39:03,840 --> 01:39:04,159
so much.

1756
01:39:04,239 --> 01:39:04,399
Speaker 9: Man.

1757
01:39:05,279 --> 01:39:07,800
Speaker 12: He knows how to recognize the true, the true cringe Lord.

1758
01:39:08,359 --> 01:39:15,199
Thank you, thank you. Can knucklehead you want, I'm mute

1759
01:39:15,279 --> 01:39:15,680
or what's up?

1760
01:39:15,720 --> 01:39:15,880
Speaker 9: Man?

1761
01:39:17,359 --> 01:39:19,239
Speaker 1: Hey, I just didn't want to interrupt.

1762
01:39:20,840 --> 01:39:21,520
Speaker 12: Can you pick up?

1763
01:39:22,880 --> 01:39:25,560
Speaker 22: Sorry? Yeah, you know, I'm just about to I'm just

1764
01:39:25,600 --> 01:39:26,760
about to be stopped driving.

1765
01:39:26,880 --> 01:39:29,159
Speaker 1: Stop driving, so it'll get a lot quieter too.

1766
01:39:30,920 --> 01:39:31,119
Speaker 41: Yeah.

1767
01:39:31,279 --> 01:39:34,439
Speaker 1: I I was calling because there's a.

1768
01:39:35,439 --> 01:39:39,000
Speaker 22: A little while ago I asked, I'm Orthodox, but uh,

1769
01:39:39,520 --> 01:39:43,279
a little while ago I asked if the argument for

1770
01:39:44,920 --> 01:39:49,760
against the papacy would be good if you just say it?

1771
01:39:49,800 --> 01:39:52,119
Would it be a good argument to say, you know,

1772
01:39:52,359 --> 01:39:57,239
why didn't Paul mention Peter or like the papacy in his.

1773
01:39:57,319 --> 01:39:58,199
Speaker 9: Letter to the Romans?

1774
01:39:59,680 --> 01:40:03,000
Speaker 1: And I kind of think that that's a bad argument now.

1775
01:40:04,800 --> 01:40:08,000
Speaker 22: Because at least because I got into it like a

1776
01:40:08,079 --> 01:40:12,680
debate with a Roman Catholic and he kind of pointed

1777
01:40:12,800 --> 01:40:17,079
out again, I still think that it's Uh, I don't

1778
01:40:17,079 --> 01:40:19,920
believe in the papacy, but like if Peter was there,

1779
01:40:22,199 --> 01:40:24,720
then maybe Peter already taught it and that's why.

1780
01:40:26,399 --> 01:40:27,119
Speaker 1: Paul didn't.

1781
01:40:28,159 --> 01:40:31,279
Speaker 12: Well, first of all, that's an argument from silence, and secondly,

1782
01:40:31,840 --> 01:40:41,640
oh dude, it's an argument from silence. And second the

1783
01:40:41,760 --> 01:40:46,000
argument is not just why doesn't Paul mention the papacy

1784
01:40:46,199 --> 01:40:48,119
in the Letter to the Romans. The argument is that

1785
01:40:48,640 --> 01:40:52,880
Romans eleven warns the Church of Rome that they collectively

1786
01:40:53,000 --> 01:40:57,439
as a church can be grafted out which is impossible

1787
01:40:57,600 --> 01:41:01,399
given the so called Petrian succession and the doctrine of

1788
01:41:02,720 --> 01:41:07,319
the patrin terrorism and indefectibility. So why would you warn

1789
01:41:07,399 --> 01:41:09,760
a church that's indefectible that they can be cut out

1790
01:41:09,800 --> 01:41:12,319
of the covenant. So the argument is not all this

1791
01:41:12,399 --> 01:41:17,800
stuff to do with why didn't Paul mentioned the papacy?

1792
01:41:18,079 --> 01:41:23,199
That that's not the argument? Warren, what's Warren? G? What's up? Dude?

1793
01:41:29,880 --> 01:41:31,680
Sea Bass becomes a member of Shout out to the

1794
01:41:31,800 --> 01:41:34,920
Chad members. We've got Sea Bass joining us Orthodoxy as

1795
01:41:34,920 --> 01:41:38,520
a tar can another country an invade an opposing nation's

1796
01:41:38,600 --> 01:41:44,439
bitcoin reserve like they would with gold Well, I think

1797
01:41:44,560 --> 01:41:47,640
that if a nation, if a nation state is a

1798
01:41:49,079 --> 01:41:54,520
stocking bitcoin, they probably have sufficient protocols in place such

1799
01:41:54,640 --> 01:41:59,000
that it's stored in a secure way. They might use

1800
01:41:59,199 --> 01:42:04,319
multi sig, they might use some you know, super difficult

1801
01:42:04,359 --> 01:42:10,159
way to keep those seed phrases private. So this is

1802
01:42:10,159 --> 01:42:13,640
an argument that bitcoin proponents make, which is that when

1803
01:42:13,720 --> 01:42:16,560
the world moves to a bitcoin standard, if that happens,

1804
01:42:16,600 --> 01:42:19,199
I think it's very likely there will be less war.

1805
01:42:19,319 --> 01:42:21,199
It's not going to solve all problems. It's not a

1806
01:42:21,279 --> 01:42:24,720
silver bullet. There will be less war. Because it's way

1807
01:42:24,840 --> 01:42:29,039
harder to get a hold of this asset than it

1808
01:42:29,199 --> 01:42:34,800
is physical gold, physical property, physical treasure land. Right, those

1809
01:42:34,840 --> 01:42:38,319
things are much easily had in warfare than something that

1810
01:42:38,439 --> 01:42:42,239
I can memorize a seed phrase and boops, I forgot

1811
01:42:42,279 --> 01:42:46,720
it right. So you know the voting accident example, if

1812
01:42:46,720 --> 01:42:48,920
you're familiar with that. Where can I sign up to

1813
01:42:48,960 --> 01:42:52,319
be Orthodox? Go to your local Orthodox church to become Orthodox?

1814
01:42:52,439 --> 01:42:57,560
It's not an online thing. Let's see, he says, first

1815
01:42:57,840 --> 01:43:01,119
seven Canadian? Can I play on my church? Can I

1816
01:43:01,159 --> 01:43:04,119
play on my phone in church? No, it would probably

1817
01:43:04,159 --> 01:43:05,640
be better for you to go to the Lutheran church

1818
01:43:05,640 --> 01:43:09,760
if that's what you're suggesting, rather than an Orthodox church

1819
01:43:09,800 --> 01:43:13,159
playing on your phone. What's up, Warren? You're raising your

1820
01:43:13,159 --> 01:43:16,800
hand and go ahead. I'm mute, okay.

1821
01:43:17,279 --> 01:43:18,680
Speaker 42: So I just wanted to ask you a question.

1822
01:43:19,079 --> 01:43:21,119
Speaker 1: So you're going to also debate.

1823
01:43:20,920 --> 01:43:24,039
Speaker 12: Libertarian, right, Yeah, sure, that's on the list.

1824
01:43:24,920 --> 01:43:26,880
Speaker 1: So I just want to ask you that.

1825
01:43:27,279 --> 01:43:31,560
Speaker 43: So you're in info Wars and why someone like Alex

1826
01:43:31,640 --> 01:43:35,159
Jones is opposing Israel. So that's the only family libertarian

1827
01:43:35,199 --> 01:43:38,359
perspective that they were saying, Oh, funding for this is

1828
01:43:38,800 --> 01:43:40,520
it against like libertarian.

1829
01:43:40,039 --> 01:43:42,520
Speaker 12: Alex Jones and info Wars has nothing to do with

1830
01:43:42,720 --> 01:43:45,000
the topics. I don't know what you're talking about. Joel Davis.

1831
01:43:45,079 --> 01:43:55,119
What's up? Sharif ten dollars Canadian Thank you so much,

1832
01:43:55,159 --> 01:44:02,000
Sharif Cody s five dollars. Jay, would you say that

1833
01:44:02,039 --> 01:44:07,840
Pentecostalism is just modern Montanism? Yes, sir, Vane five dollars.

1834
01:44:07,880 --> 01:44:10,439
Do you believe in the miracle will Holy fire the suppulcher?

1835
01:44:10,479 --> 01:44:12,199
I don't have any position on it. I don't know.

1836
01:44:12,319 --> 01:44:14,520
I've never been there, I haven't seen it, so I

1837
01:44:14,680 --> 01:44:17,960
just don't know. Tonyo one one six, No, we already

1838
01:44:18,000 --> 01:44:26,840
read that. Excuse me. JD became a member get Ganazia

1839
01:44:27,399 --> 01:44:29,840
ten dollars. Will you speak to Joe Attwell's theory on

1840
01:44:30,000 --> 01:44:33,880
Caesar's Messiah. We already had a debate with this person

1841
01:44:34,000 --> 01:44:38,319
on this this goofy topic, like eight or ten years ago.

1842
01:44:39,920 --> 01:44:41,640
Let me I'll pull you up the debate that I

1843
01:44:41,720 --> 01:44:45,560
had with one of the proponents of this. It's what

1844
01:44:45,760 --> 01:45:05,000
is that guy's name, Alex Sicaris. So if you go here,

1845
01:45:05,279 --> 01:45:09,199
this guy argues, this guy argues the Joe Atwill thing

1846
01:45:09,680 --> 01:45:14,840
from it's actually eight years ago technically, so there's my

1847
01:45:15,000 --> 01:45:17,359
thoughts on that. You could also watch my podcast that

1848
01:45:17,439 --> 01:45:23,680
I did on the Beast and Preterism. Go ahead, what's up, Joe?

1849
01:45:26,199 --> 01:45:26,760
Speaker 1: Hey? Can you hear me?

1850
01:45:26,960 --> 01:45:28,800
Speaker 12: Uh huh Hey.

1851
01:45:28,920 --> 01:45:32,159
Speaker 41: So I'm a Protestant looking into Orthodoxy right now, and

1852
01:45:32,319 --> 01:45:35,520
my question is how is how do the ecumenical councils

1853
01:45:35,640 --> 01:45:38,079
not count as divine revelation. I've heard a lot of

1854
01:45:38,640 --> 01:45:42,319
Protestant rebukes of like of how they are divine revelation

1855
01:45:42,399 --> 01:45:44,560
in the sense that there's new information being conveyed that's

1856
01:45:44,640 --> 01:45:46,439
binding to the Church, and I just wanted to know

1857
01:45:46,479 --> 01:45:47,439
what your response.

1858
01:45:47,199 --> 01:45:47,439
Speaker 29: Was to that.

1859
01:45:47,760 --> 01:45:51,600
Speaker 12: Well, they're not revelation in the sense that, as Jude says,

1860
01:45:51,720 --> 01:45:54,239
the faith was once for all delivered to the Saints.

1861
01:45:54,279 --> 01:45:57,479
So there's a finality to what we call the Apostolic deposit,

1862
01:45:58,000 --> 01:46:00,800
which is everything written and oral from the Apostles. That

1863
01:46:01,000 --> 01:46:04,279
deposit does not have new information added to it. It

1864
01:46:04,359 --> 01:46:07,199
doesn't evolve, it doesn't change, it doesn't develop like Roman

1865
01:46:07,239 --> 01:46:11,199
Catholics think. It's a single, unified body of teachings expressed

1866
01:46:11,239 --> 01:46:14,760
in things like the Niceno Constablitan Creed, for example. So

1867
01:46:15,119 --> 01:46:18,880
when we come to documenical councils, Athanasius says that the

1868
01:46:19,359 --> 01:46:22,239
voice of the Holy Spirit spoke through the Council of Nicea,

1869
01:46:22,680 --> 01:46:24,720
so you can have a sense in which it's a

1870
01:46:25,359 --> 01:46:29,720
restatement of but there's no new revelations. So Nicea is

1871
01:46:29,800 --> 01:46:34,960
not a new revelation. It's a precise explication of what

1872
01:46:35,279 --> 01:46:38,840
came before. That is the Apostolic deposit Thus it is

1873
01:46:38,880 --> 01:46:40,439
in no sense a new revelation.

1874
01:46:42,439 --> 01:46:46,279
Speaker 1: Okay, something, Yeah, I was just talking with my professor

1875
01:46:46,319 --> 01:46:49,319
about that. That's I didn't think of it that way.

1876
01:46:49,920 --> 01:46:52,840
Another question that I have is in regards to.

1877
01:46:55,720 --> 01:46:58,840
Speaker 41: You know, how can we know how can we know

1878
01:46:59,000 --> 01:47:01,439
what is true today versus what is false tradition?

1879
01:47:01,560 --> 01:47:03,279
Speaker 1: If a lot of these things like, for example, the.

1880
01:47:04,920 --> 01:47:08,279
Speaker 41: The Council of Icia, the Second Council of Icia, where

1881
01:47:08,279 --> 01:47:13,640
there's like iconography is discussed, and there's not a ton

1882
01:47:13,680 --> 01:47:16,359
of information regarding iconography in the first three centuries, so

1883
01:47:16,439 --> 01:47:17,039
how can we know that?

1884
01:47:17,159 --> 01:47:19,279
Speaker 12: That's not like an aggression? Okay, but that's also an

1885
01:47:19,319 --> 01:47:22,399
argument from silence, and there is some information about iconography

1886
01:47:22,399 --> 01:47:24,039
in the first three centuries. So the idea that there's

1887
01:47:24,119 --> 01:47:25,960
not any I'm not saying that you said that, but

1888
01:47:26,000 --> 01:47:27,560
a lot of Protestants, so there's no proof of that.

1889
01:47:27,960 --> 01:47:30,000
There's not a lot of proof for the Protestant cande

1890
01:47:30,000 --> 01:47:31,800
of scripture in the first three centuries either, So there's

1891
01:47:31,840 --> 01:47:34,840
a lot of things that even Protestants believe that there's

1892
01:47:34,880 --> 01:47:39,279
scent evidence for in first, second, third century. So the

1893
01:47:39,399 --> 01:47:41,560
again that kind of ends up being arguments from silence.

1894
01:47:41,960 --> 01:47:43,359
Keep in mind this is the period when the church

1895
01:47:43,479 --> 01:47:45,840
is persecuted, so the church is underground, so they may

1896
01:47:45,920 --> 01:47:49,520
not be as ostentatious in terms of the you know,

1897
01:47:50,119 --> 01:47:54,039
luxuriousness of the ornate basilica when they're having to meet

1898
01:47:54,079 --> 01:47:56,039
and do their services in the catacombs. But I've been

1899
01:47:56,079 --> 01:47:57,960
to the catacombs, and when you go to the catacombs,

1900
01:47:58,000 --> 01:48:00,680
guess what they have in there. They have images and

1901
01:48:00,800 --> 01:48:04,239
they have altars. That's not Protestant. So the catacomb church

1902
01:48:04,279 --> 01:48:07,000
the first second, third century is not Protestant. Go to

1903
01:48:07,159 --> 01:48:09,560
Rome and go look at the imagery that's drawn on

1904
01:48:09,600 --> 01:48:13,880
the walls and where the altars are in the catacombs.

1905
01:48:15,880 --> 01:48:17,039
Speaker 1: Awesome, Thank you so much, Shacob.

1906
01:48:17,239 --> 01:48:19,560
Speaker 12: And those are great questions. And also I think Michael

1907
01:48:19,640 --> 01:48:24,640
Garton has a new book out on imagery and icons

1908
01:48:24,680 --> 01:48:26,680
in the first three centuries. I do not have the

1909
01:48:26,720 --> 01:48:28,319
book yet, so I can't speak to it, but I've

1910
01:48:28,359 --> 01:48:31,039
seen a lot of Orthodox people are talking about it,

1911
01:48:31,159 --> 01:48:33,800
so that probably also addresses it. Also, I did a

1912
01:48:33,880 --> 01:48:37,520
video in response to Gavin Ortland a while back. It

1913
01:48:37,600 --> 01:48:41,079
was a brief twenty minute video where I address from

1914
01:48:41,279 --> 01:48:45,680
the Protestant liturgy scholar Hugh Weybrew in his book Byzantine Liturgy.

1915
01:48:46,640 --> 01:48:49,439
In the first few chapters he actually addresses and robuts

1916
01:48:49,520 --> 01:48:53,119
most of Ortland's claims. So let me pull that up first.

1917
01:48:53,479 --> 01:48:56,359
Here is the Beast Sism and Best System and Resurrection

1918
01:48:57,319 --> 01:48:59,800
podcast I did five years ago. This one addresses a

1919
01:48:59,840 --> 01:49:02,279
lot of those kind of early questions that we had

1920
01:49:02,319 --> 01:49:05,560
about Joe's witnesses. Do you need something it's gonna help you, okay?

1921
01:49:06,439 --> 01:49:07,800
And then could you make me one more of these?

1922
01:49:07,920 --> 01:49:17,479
Thank you? And on my clips channel is this twenty

1923
01:49:17,560 --> 01:49:21,000
minute summation of what's in the Hugh Weybrew book. So

1924
01:49:21,920 --> 01:49:27,800
now I have longer podcasts discussing icons, but this right

1925
01:49:27,920 --> 01:49:32,680
here is a brief response to Galvin Ortlund, and it's

1926
01:49:33,079 --> 01:49:40,520
citing the Hugh Wybrew book. Christian JADEI refuse Protestant Gavin Orland.

1927
01:49:40,520 --> 01:49:42,000
By the way, this might be the guy who has

1928
01:49:42,119 --> 01:49:46,199
the baptism video. Maybe not, he doesn't have many videos,

1929
01:49:46,239 --> 01:49:48,039
that's not him. But anyway, this this is a good

1930
01:49:48,119 --> 01:49:51,920
video right here. And you'll notice right there, like you

1931
01:49:52,000 --> 01:49:56,640
have the dro Europos churches and synagogues how they were structured.

1932
01:49:56,760 --> 01:49:57,000
Speaker 9: You have.

1933
01:49:58,560 --> 01:50:01,640
Speaker 12: What basically amounts to altar rail in the west, or

1934
01:50:01,760 --> 01:50:05,640
a what becomes iconostasis in the east. You have an

1935
01:50:05,680 --> 01:50:09,119
altar which is blocked off by the communion rail or

1936
01:50:09,159 --> 01:50:10,039
the iconostasis.

1937
01:50:10,159 --> 01:50:10,399
Speaker 9: You have.

1938
01:50:11,960 --> 01:50:16,119
Speaker 12: Baptismal fonts in the basilicas that are converted into churches.

1939
01:50:17,000 --> 01:50:21,600
So here's a easy twenty minute response to a lot

1940
01:50:21,640 --> 01:50:23,760
of the Gavin Ortland types of claims. And this is

1941
01:50:23,800 --> 01:50:26,039
from a Protestant scholar. That's why I always point out

1942
01:50:26,119 --> 01:50:28,479
the Hugh Weiber book is not written by an Orthodox person.

1943
01:50:28,520 --> 01:50:48,239
That's written by a Protestant liturgical scholar. Fury, what's up, dude, Fury?

1944
01:50:48,319 --> 01:50:48,680
Speaker 9: Are you there?

1945
01:50:54,239 --> 01:50:55,279
Speaker 12: Fury? You want to unmute?

1946
01:50:56,079 --> 01:50:56,319
Speaker 9: All right?

1947
01:50:56,399 --> 01:51:01,760
Speaker 12: He dropped off. If you disagree, you go to the

1948
01:51:01,760 --> 01:51:04,239
head of line. So remember we're not really doing FAQ

1949
01:51:05,119 --> 01:51:07,960
catechumen question day. That's for you to be catechized by

1950
01:51:08,000 --> 01:51:12,560
your priest. I'm looking for Protestants, Catholics, Atheist Muslims, Mormons, Libertarians,

1951
01:51:12,600 --> 01:51:17,159
Marxist feminists who disagree Hebrew roots arians. You go to

1952
01:51:17,199 --> 01:51:21,479
the head of line Manny money like run Lula, run

1953
01:51:21,560 --> 01:51:34,199
over here with Manny. So MKG asked for six ninety nine.

1954
01:51:34,720 --> 01:51:37,039
If the forerunner is the last of the prophets bringing

1955
01:51:37,039 --> 01:51:39,359
divine revelation, no, no, last of the prophets in the

1956
01:51:39,399 --> 01:51:42,279
sense of an Old Testament prophet. The role of a

1957
01:51:42,359 --> 01:51:46,640
prophet like Isaiah or or Moses or you know, Hoseiah.

1958
01:51:47,439 --> 01:51:50,560
Jesus says in Luke sixteen the law and the prophets

1959
01:51:51,119 --> 01:51:54,319
were until John. Since that time the Kingdom has preached.

1960
01:51:55,199 --> 01:51:57,880
Kingdom has preached, which is the summation of all those things.

1961
01:51:58,199 --> 01:52:00,600
So in a sense, yes, aga Us. In the Book

1962
01:52:00,600 --> 01:52:04,039
of Access to a Prophet, Paul is a prophet. Paul

1963
01:52:04,119 --> 01:52:07,319
talks about the gift of prophecy, right, And I'm not

1964
01:52:07,439 --> 01:52:09,560
saying that those aren't gifts. Those are gifts unique to

1965
01:52:10,199 --> 01:52:16,159
particularly the Intertestamental period to establish the church, but they're

1966
01:52:16,239 --> 01:52:19,640
not profits in the way that there's an office of

1967
01:52:19,720 --> 01:52:23,359
the profit of the Old Testament. Pentecostals believe that they

1968
01:52:23,399 --> 01:52:27,119
are the office of prophets like Hoseiah or Isaiah. Okay,

1969
01:52:27,199 --> 01:52:29,800
they literally believe that, most of them do, and they

1970
01:52:29,840 --> 01:52:32,840
don't really see any difference or any discontinuity between them

1971
01:52:32,880 --> 01:52:35,319
and the Old Testament prophits. I'm pointing out that Luke

1972
01:52:35,399 --> 01:52:40,560
sixteen refutes Mormons, it refutes Muslims and all these groups

1973
01:52:40,600 --> 01:52:44,880
that believe in new, ongoing public divine revelation. You see.

1974
01:52:47,359 --> 01:52:51,880
So the Apostles message is the finality of what all

1975
01:52:51,960 --> 01:52:54,520
those profits of the Old Testament were. They're all predicting

1976
01:52:54,640 --> 01:52:57,079
this kingdom that's coming, this era and this time of

1977
01:52:57,119 --> 01:53:00,479
the Messiah. When the Messiah comes, he said, Jesus says

1978
01:53:00,520 --> 01:53:04,119
in Luke sixteen. Since then the Kingdom is preached, meaning

1979
01:53:04,199 --> 01:53:06,600
now that I'm here, I'm the Kingdom, I'm the king

1980
01:53:07,159 --> 01:53:08,920
My church is the Kingdom. That's what's preaching.

1981
01:53:08,960 --> 01:53:09,079
Speaker 9: Now.

1982
01:53:09,239 --> 01:53:13,239
Speaker 12: That's the finality, that's the Apostolic deposit. It includes these

1983
01:53:13,279 --> 01:53:17,520
Old Testament revelations because that's all presaging and predicting the

1984
01:53:17,600 --> 01:53:23,680
coming of this period. Rachel Wilson gives five memberships. Thank you. Rachel,

1985
01:53:24,159 --> 01:53:29,560
appreciate that upsis since a couple more podcasts. Thank you

1986
01:53:29,640 --> 01:53:33,119
so much, excuse me, excuse me, since a couple more

1987
01:53:33,279 --> 01:53:35,079
super chats for six ninety nine, do I have to

1988
01:53:35,119 --> 01:53:39,960
be rebaptized? I was baptized by nutcase Pentecostals. A lot

1989
01:53:40,000 --> 01:53:43,920
of times the Orthodox will probably not rebaptize you, but

1990
01:53:44,079 --> 01:53:49,439
baptize you because they don't recognize anti Trinitarian baptisms, and

1991
01:53:49,479 --> 01:53:52,079
a lot of Pentecostals are anti Trinitarian their oneness. So

1992
01:53:53,000 --> 01:53:55,039
if I don't attend church every Sunday, do I go

1993
01:53:55,119 --> 01:53:56,680
to Hell? I mean, these are kinds of questions that

1994
01:53:57,239 --> 01:54:00,920
you're gonna ask somebody in your catechumen class. Peace out, Jay,

1995
01:54:01,439 --> 01:54:03,840
maybe I won't be saved. Have more money. I'm a

1996
01:54:03,920 --> 01:54:06,960
slow boy. Don't be mad. I'm a rich Christian or

1997
01:54:07,000 --> 01:54:07,720
a rich heretic.

1998
01:54:08,760 --> 01:54:08,880
Speaker 9: Uh.

1999
01:54:10,800 --> 01:54:12,920
Speaker 12: Just go to the church, uh and check it out

2000
01:54:12,920 --> 01:54:16,039
at a local level. Dog Ryan taross five dollars. What

2001
01:54:16,199 --> 01:54:18,600
brand of the Ginger Choose? I don't know the one

2002
01:54:18,640 --> 01:54:22,479
that every Whole Foods and Sprouts has. I don't know that.

2003
01:54:22,479 --> 01:54:26,560
I can't remember the name of the brand. I don't

2004
01:54:26,600 --> 01:54:29,479
have a sponsorship from Ginger Choose, so I'm not gonna

2005
01:54:29,880 --> 01:54:32,720
I'm not gonna promote them, but I only eat the

2006
01:54:32,760 --> 01:54:34,439
Ginger cheo if I haven't had any like if my

2007
01:54:34,720 --> 01:54:36,680
blood sugar is low and I'm getting angry at people

2008
01:54:36,760 --> 01:54:38,640
or something. So I feel fine today. I don't I

2009
01:54:38,640 --> 01:54:41,359
don't need a ginger jee. What's up? Money?

2010
01:54:42,640 --> 01:54:43,000
Speaker 21: Money?

2011
01:54:45,640 --> 01:54:45,760
Speaker 9: Hi?

2012
01:54:46,840 --> 01:54:47,039
Speaker 12: Yeah?

2013
01:54:50,359 --> 01:54:54,439
Speaker 29: So I'm a person and I have a question. So

2014
01:54:55,279 --> 01:54:58,920
when a non Orthodox person praise to Christ, I think

2015
01:54:59,119 --> 01:55:03,239
praying to the same Christ orthodox person is praise too?

2016
01:55:03,880 --> 01:55:05,039
Or is it someone different?

2017
01:55:07,640 --> 01:55:08,199
Speaker 12: Say that again?

2018
01:55:10,439 --> 01:55:18,239
Speaker 29: So when an Orthodox person praise to Christ, like from

2019
01:55:18,279 --> 01:55:20,640
it you're cutting out man.

2020
01:55:24,119 --> 01:55:24,439
Speaker 1: Person.

2021
01:55:25,319 --> 01:55:28,319
Speaker 29: When a non Orthodox person praise to Christ, are think

2022
01:55:28,359 --> 01:55:29,319
praying to the same Christ?

2023
01:55:29,399 --> 01:55:30,640
Speaker 9: And a person is praise too?

2024
01:55:31,880 --> 01:55:34,720
Speaker 12: Well, they might intend the same reference, but that doesn't

2025
01:55:34,760 --> 01:55:37,439
mean that it's that it's hitting upon the same reference.

2026
01:55:41,479 --> 01:55:43,359
Speaker 1: And so is that pray legitimate?

2027
01:55:43,960 --> 01:55:46,359
Speaker 12: Well, God can hear people's prayers. That's up to God.

2028
01:55:46,600 --> 01:55:49,560
But it doesn't follow from that that. I mean, a

2029
01:55:49,640 --> 01:55:54,239
Muslim might dude, what are you doing in the background, man, Yes,

2030
01:55:54,560 --> 01:55:59,079
it's loud. It doesn't follow from that that it's hitting

2031
01:55:59,199 --> 01:56:03,079
upon the same just because they intend it. And it's

2032
01:56:03,159 --> 01:56:06,680
just like a Mormon may mean the right Jesus, but

2033
01:56:06,840 --> 01:56:09,600
the Mormon Jesus is not the right Jesus. So, but

2034
01:56:09,720 --> 01:56:11,880
God can hear and knows everyone's prayers, and he knows

2035
01:56:11,920 --> 01:56:17,159
their heart whether they're sincere or not. War thunders ten dollars.

2036
01:56:17,319 --> 01:56:18,760
I'm not going to read that super chat, but I

2037
01:56:18,840 --> 01:56:24,000
thank you for the the support there. I'm just going

2038
01:56:24,079 --> 01:56:27,119
to say that I mean accusing me of teaching authority

2039
01:56:28,079 --> 01:56:32,359
orthodoxy because I teach that the Theophanes are real. When

2040
01:56:32,439 --> 01:56:34,880
somebody who claimed to be this person claims that they're

2041
01:56:34,880 --> 01:56:38,079
a translator of Orthodox texts, they don't have any degree

2042
01:56:38,119 --> 01:56:40,960
in translation. They just joined the church, like not even

2043
01:56:41,039 --> 01:56:43,880
two years ago. So if they want to go that route,

2044
01:56:43,920 --> 01:56:55,479
that's they can do that. Christians for Trump, Hello, m.

2045
01:56:57,399 --> 01:56:58,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, so what do you have?

2046
01:56:58,840 --> 01:57:00,560
Speaker 11: Are you like against Bertarians?

2047
01:57:00,680 --> 01:57:00,800
Speaker 1: Is that?

2048
01:57:01,119 --> 01:57:02,880
Speaker 11: Why do you call libertarians to debate?

2049
01:57:04,439 --> 01:57:07,039
Speaker 12: I'm I guess a lot of the ideas of libertarianism

2050
01:57:07,079 --> 01:57:08,640
you are are.

2051
01:57:08,600 --> 01:57:11,479
Speaker 11: You like by libertarian? Do you mean like anarchists or

2052
01:57:11,560 --> 01:57:11,760
do you.

2053
01:57:11,800 --> 01:57:14,800
Speaker 12: Mean more like any of those any of those positions?

2054
01:57:16,720 --> 01:57:17,039
Speaker 9: Okay?

2055
01:57:17,279 --> 01:57:24,760
Speaker 17: So, so like if if I'm a libertarian, for example,

2056
01:57:24,800 --> 01:57:29,159
and I believe that government should be limited to boundaries

2057
01:57:29,239 --> 01:57:31,199
within just the constitution.

2058
01:57:31,760 --> 01:57:32,600
Speaker 11: Like, what's wrong with that?

2059
01:57:35,920 --> 01:57:36,039
Speaker 9: If?

2060
01:57:36,119 --> 01:57:36,479
Speaker 1: What? Now?

2061
01:57:38,840 --> 01:57:42,399
Speaker 11: So if if I'm a libertarian. I believe that we

2062
01:57:42,560 --> 01:57:43,760
have a government that is.

2063
01:57:46,159 --> 01:57:49,319
Speaker 17: Stepping over and trampling on the boundaries that the Constitution

2064
01:57:49,560 --> 01:57:50,039
said on it.

2065
01:57:50,520 --> 01:57:56,960
Speaker 12: What's wrong with that? Well, that's not what libertary. What

2066
01:57:57,039 --> 01:58:01,079
I disagree with libertarianism about. I disagree with the enlightenment

2067
01:58:01,119 --> 01:58:02,399
ethos of libertarianism.

2068
01:58:07,199 --> 01:58:09,399
Speaker 11: Can you clarify what enlightenment ethos means?

2069
01:58:10,760 --> 01:58:13,680
Speaker 12: I mean the Enlightenment, like libertarianism, comes out of that

2070
01:58:13,760 --> 01:58:17,479
whole ethos of rights are natural, grounded in natural law.

2071
01:58:17,600 --> 01:58:20,560
They come from the bottom up. There's no divine authority,

2072
01:58:22,479 --> 01:58:25,439
negative liberty. I mean, I'll see, all these is a problem.

2073
01:58:25,520 --> 01:58:31,359
The state only exists to promote pleasure utilitarianism, I mean,

2074
01:58:31,399 --> 01:58:32,560
all these things are a problem.

2075
01:58:34,000 --> 01:58:35,520
Speaker 11: Okay, I would agree with you on that.

2076
01:58:36,239 --> 01:58:36,880
Speaker 1: I believe that.

2077
01:58:39,079 --> 01:58:40,760
Speaker 44: Rights come from God, so I would agree with you

2078
01:58:40,880 --> 01:58:45,000
on that. So I'm currently an r CIA to become

2079
01:58:45,039 --> 01:58:45,760
a Catholic.

2080
01:58:45,960 --> 01:58:46,239
Speaker 45: Uh huh.

2081
01:58:46,920 --> 01:58:51,960
Speaker 44: And one of the things that drew me to Catholicism

2082
01:58:52,079 --> 01:58:59,319
versus orthodoxy was that the Bible says that God would

2083
01:58:59,359 --> 01:59:04,760
not allow them gates have held to basically overcome the Church.

2084
01:59:05,199 --> 01:59:06,760
Speaker 12: Yeah, well, how do you know that's the Roman Caloity

2085
01:59:06,840 --> 01:59:07,960
Church and not the Orthodox Church.

2086
01:59:11,720 --> 01:59:14,920
Speaker 11: Well, because they were one church before the schism.

2087
01:59:15,600 --> 01:59:17,079
Speaker 12: Okay, so how does that? But how does that not

2088
01:59:17,520 --> 01:59:19,560
maybe it's still the Orthodox Church, So how as they

2089
01:59:19,560 --> 01:59:20,560
say it's the Roman Church?

2090
01:59:23,760 --> 01:59:26,920
Speaker 44: Well, so the Roman Catholic position is still that the

2091
01:59:27,199 --> 01:59:30,359
Orthodox Church has a valid priesthood and valid Holy orders.

2092
01:59:30,880 --> 01:59:32,439
Speaker 12: But what does that have to do with it? Yeah,

2093
01:59:32,479 --> 01:59:35,520
but it's it's in schism according to traditional Catholic teaching,

2094
01:59:35,600 --> 01:59:36,880
So what does that have to do. It's not the

2095
01:59:36,960 --> 01:59:40,079
Church church anymore. If it's not in union with the

2096
01:59:40,119 --> 01:59:42,399
Holy See, it's not the true Church. So how does

2097
01:59:42,479 --> 01:59:45,199
that tell you that it's the Roman Catholic Church that

2098
01:59:45,359 --> 01:59:48,079
is the fulfillment of Matthew sixteen's promise.

2099
01:59:51,840 --> 01:59:54,880
Speaker 44: Because even though that it's not in communion with the

2100
01:59:55,279 --> 01:59:57,840
with the Pope, it still has valid Holy orders in

2101
01:59:57,880 --> 01:59:58,760
a valid priesthood.

2102
01:59:59,520 --> 02:00:01,560
Speaker 12: It's not are you going to answer the question or

2103
02:00:01,560 --> 02:00:02,640
you don't understand the question.

2104
02:00:03,680 --> 02:00:04,760
Speaker 11: I don't understand the question.

2105
02:00:05,039 --> 02:00:07,159
Speaker 12: How does that tell you it's the true Church when

2106
02:00:07,199 --> 02:00:10,159
it's in schism, it's not in communion with the Roman Church?

2107
02:00:10,600 --> 02:00:12,720
So how do you know that Matthew sixteen is still

2108
02:00:13,399 --> 02:00:14,920
it is fulfilled in the Roman Church and not the

2109
02:00:15,000 --> 02:00:17,800
Orthodox Church and just saying that, well, the Roman Catholics

2110
02:00:17,880 --> 02:00:21,119
believe that Orthodox have absolute succession doesn't answer. Isn't an

2111
02:00:21,119 --> 02:00:21,880
answer that question?

2112
02:00:24,680 --> 02:00:24,960
Speaker 1: Okay?

2113
02:00:25,279 --> 02:00:26,840
Speaker 11: So yeah, that's what I was going to say, because

2114
02:00:26,840 --> 02:00:28,239
they have opothelic secession.

2115
02:00:29,960 --> 02:00:31,840
Speaker 12: All right, Well, I thank you for the question, but

2116
02:00:32,000 --> 02:00:35,600
you're not You're not getting it, So moving on. Busn't

2117
02:00:35,760 --> 02:00:36,960
Orthodox category.

2118
02:00:41,880 --> 02:00:42,119
Speaker 1: Cool?

2119
02:00:43,319 --> 02:00:43,520
Speaker 12: YEP?

2120
02:00:44,880 --> 02:00:46,840
Speaker 13: I just wanted to ask you real quick.

2121
02:00:47,399 --> 02:00:52,079
Speaker 26: I've heard Catholics making these statements that the essence entergy.

2122
02:00:51,920 --> 02:00:57,439
Speaker 39: Distinction is only conceptual and the polemic disciple taught that.

2123
02:00:58,119 --> 02:00:58,920
Speaker 1: What would you say to that?

2124
02:00:59,239 --> 02:01:02,119
Speaker 12: I mean, there's a whole article written by a UNI

2125
02:01:02,199 --> 02:01:06,199
eight scholar, Christian cop Base. If you're talking about scolarios,

2126
02:01:06,319 --> 02:01:08,039
and the whole point is that you can't say that

2127
02:01:08,119 --> 02:01:11,800
it's purely conceptual. It's prior to conception. Is the terminology

2128
02:01:11,840 --> 02:01:14,960
that they use, and the Polemite synods define them as

2129
02:01:15,119 --> 02:01:16,159
distinct realities.

2130
02:01:18,000 --> 02:01:19,319
Speaker 1: Gotcha appreciate that.

2131
02:01:21,039 --> 02:01:27,880
Speaker 12: It's Uh, the article is on the energies and I'm

2132
02:01:27,880 --> 02:01:37,239
not recommending this weirdo's website, but it's let me find it.

2133
02:01:37,319 --> 02:01:42,720
Hold on, you just read the essence entergy distinction of

2134
02:01:42,760 --> 02:01:46,920
the theology of Saint Canadius Scolarios by father Christian cop Base,

2135
02:01:46,960 --> 02:01:50,560
who's one of the most famous Uni eight scholars, and

2136
02:01:50,760 --> 02:01:54,920
he admits that obviously these are they're not. It's the

2137
02:01:55,039 --> 02:01:58,920
essence intistinction is not concept purely conceptual. It's not the

2138
02:01:59,000 --> 02:02:04,239
tonistic position. And the Fourth Palamite Synod condemns the idea

2139
02:02:04,439 --> 02:02:08,159
that it's only conceptual. So if you have the orange,

2140
02:02:13,800 --> 02:02:17,279
if you have the Orange book right here by Palamas

2141
02:02:19,119 --> 02:02:22,800
has a cast controversy. The Fourth Palamite Synod is concerned

2142
02:02:22,880 --> 02:02:27,920
with that very position that it's purely conceptual, and it's

2143
02:02:28,000 --> 02:02:31,279
rejected in the Tomos of thirteen sixty eight. I wrote

2144
02:02:31,279 --> 02:02:34,239
a whole article on my substack on it. The Tomsic

2145
02:02:34,319 --> 02:02:37,880
view is explicitly rejected. So it's utterly idiotic to think

2146
02:02:37,960 --> 02:02:40,760
that you can combine these two positions, because you.

2147
02:02:40,800 --> 02:02:43,399
Speaker 1: Know, I think they try to quote mine of Palamas

2148
02:02:43,560 --> 02:02:46,800
disciple seems like it does what they do?

2149
02:02:47,439 --> 02:02:49,640
Speaker 12: You mean scalarias well. We have a bunch of people

2150
02:02:49,680 --> 02:02:53,960
in my discord who are translators, not fake translators who

2151
02:02:53,960 --> 02:02:55,600
claim that they are when they don't have any degrees

2152
02:02:55,640 --> 02:02:59,920
in anything, and they have actually translated various texts from Scolarias,

2153
02:03:00,079 --> 02:03:02,039
and now he does not teach anything close to the

2154
02:03:02,079 --> 02:03:06,520
Tomistic position, so Copies is correct. Scolarios explicitly says that

2155
02:03:06,600 --> 02:03:10,800
Aquinas is completely wrong on the Essen center distinction. Thomas

2156
02:03:10,840 --> 02:03:13,960
denies it. Thomas thinks that the attributes are only distinguished

2157
02:03:14,359 --> 02:03:21,800
in the mind. Yeah, so there you go. I mean,

2158
02:03:22,199 --> 02:03:24,279
it's kind of a it's kind of a silly position, really.

2159
02:03:24,319 --> 02:03:26,279
I mean, if you just get into the literature, don't

2160
02:03:26,279 --> 02:03:28,800
have to go very far before you find out that's

2161
02:03:28,840 --> 02:04:00,319
the case. Baki, m baki are you gonna? I'm you

2162
02:04:04,880 --> 02:04:55,079
backy b a K I try again, parabolic. I don't

2163
02:04:55,119 --> 02:04:57,960
know what's going on. If you have a hard time. Sheriff,

2164
02:04:58,640 --> 02:05:08,760
Sheriff marsha Reef, Hey, j how are you? What's question

2165
02:05:08,960 --> 02:05:09,279
for you?

2166
02:05:10,680 --> 02:05:13,960
Speaker 1: Is human nature simple or composite?

2167
02:05:14,399 --> 02:05:20,439
Speaker 12: In your opinion, it's clearly composite. Multiple church fathers say

2168
02:05:20,439 --> 02:05:26,039
it's composite body and soul, right, and anything created is

2169
02:05:26,119 --> 02:05:27,039
also composite.

2170
02:05:30,000 --> 02:05:31,479
Speaker 1: Right understood? Understood?

2171
02:05:32,159 --> 02:05:35,640
Speaker 32: Would it be correct to say that a human being

2172
02:05:35,760 --> 02:05:39,479
is consubstantial with the substance of the flesh and also

2173
02:05:39,600 --> 02:05:41,760
consubstantial with the substance of the soul?

2174
02:05:43,680 --> 02:05:46,039
Speaker 12: I mean the word human being usually refers to a

2175
02:05:46,159 --> 02:05:48,600
whole human being, body and soul. So I don't know

2176
02:05:48,680 --> 02:05:49,079
what you mean.

2177
02:05:51,199 --> 02:05:52,279
Speaker 42: No, I understand.

2178
02:05:52,359 --> 02:05:54,239
Speaker 32: As in, for example, if we were to think of

2179
02:05:54,279 --> 02:05:57,680
them as two sets, right, the set of all you know,

2180
02:05:57,840 --> 02:06:02,800
human souls and the set of human flesh, would a single.

2181
02:06:02,560 --> 02:06:04,399
Speaker 1: Body be a member of both sets? Like?

2182
02:06:04,479 --> 02:06:07,479
Speaker 32: Would that be okay to say consubstantial with the substance

2183
02:06:07,520 --> 02:06:10,359
of the soul and consubstantial with the substance of the body.

2184
02:06:12,560 --> 02:06:14,880
Speaker 12: I don't. I don't understand what the point of that is.

2185
02:06:15,079 --> 02:06:16,199
Why would you want to say that?

2186
02:06:18,239 --> 02:06:22,399
Speaker 32: Well, so the only reason why I'm asking is again.

2187
02:06:22,399 --> 02:06:26,239
Speaker 1: With the you know, hypostatic union, the.

2188
02:06:27,920 --> 02:06:30,319
Speaker 32: Act of composition I guess of Christ, Like, is there

2189
02:06:30,399 --> 02:06:35,520
a reason why the Calcedonian position isn't that Christ has

2190
02:06:35,600 --> 02:06:36,239
three natures?

2191
02:06:36,399 --> 02:06:37,399
Speaker 1: Actually, because there's.

2192
02:06:37,239 --> 02:06:40,159
Speaker 32: The substance of the logos and the substance of the

2193
02:06:40,199 --> 02:06:42,800
flesh and the substance of the of the human soul.

2194
02:06:44,399 --> 02:06:47,000
Speaker 12: It's just distinguishing two different types of things. It doesn't

2195
02:06:47,039 --> 02:06:49,319
mean that it's a different, wholly different nature. Because the

2196
02:06:49,399 --> 02:06:53,840
body is physics, is solid and in space and time

2197
02:06:54,000 --> 02:06:56,560
and has spatial location. It doesn't mean that the soul

2198
02:06:57,159 --> 02:07:01,159
is therefore a totally different substance or nature, because the

2199
02:07:01,279 --> 02:07:04,279
term human nature is supposed to encompass the two together.

2200
02:07:04,560 --> 02:07:07,159
So no, it's not three different natures. Just because the

2201
02:07:07,319 --> 02:07:10,079
term nature or the term substance is used in a

2202
02:07:10,119 --> 02:07:15,560
different way substance in the modern word, can you mute

2203
02:07:15,560 --> 02:07:19,119
when you're not talking, there's like a loud static. Oh sorry,

2204
02:07:21,239 --> 02:07:25,239
So after Descartes, substance takes on a different meaning. In

2205
02:07:25,359 --> 02:07:29,760
Western philosophy, substance typically means some kind of substrate or

2206
02:07:30,000 --> 02:07:34,880
some kind of physical collection of corpuscles or molecules or atoms.

2207
02:07:35,479 --> 02:07:38,479
In the ancient world when that terminology is used, or

2208
02:07:38,560 --> 02:07:41,680
in the Middle Ages or whatever, they're just talking about

2209
02:07:41,720 --> 02:07:45,000
a term that encapsulates one type of thing or one

2210
02:07:45,119 --> 02:07:49,359
kind of thing. So angels and souls are non physical

2211
02:07:49,520 --> 02:07:52,640
types of things, and so they might be called, you know,

2212
02:07:53,800 --> 02:07:58,039
aerial substances, or the soul is a type of substance.

2213
02:07:58,600 --> 02:08:02,119
It doesn't mean it's a completely different type of quote

2214
02:08:02,239 --> 02:08:05,479
nature in the strict definition the way that it's used

2215
02:08:05,680 --> 02:08:10,520
in the terminology of the councils. So no, even though

2216
02:08:10,680 --> 02:08:13,279
body and soul are two different types of things, they're

2217
02:08:13,359 --> 02:08:16,920
not intended to be strictly speaking, different natures in the

2218
02:08:17,000 --> 02:08:19,880
same sense as divine nature and human nature. Nature just

2219
02:08:20,039 --> 02:08:26,319
encompasses the two together that in that context, I guess.

2220
02:08:26,159 --> 02:08:29,600
Speaker 32: I'm wondering then, what to make of sin Cyril's you know,

2221
02:08:29,760 --> 02:08:33,640
pointing to the composition of body and soul as.

2222
02:08:33,560 --> 02:08:37,760
Speaker 12: A model for It's an analogy. It's an analogy for

2223
02:08:38,680 --> 02:08:41,800
the two natures coming together in Christ. It doesn't mean

2224
02:08:41,880 --> 02:08:45,119
that there's three natures in Christ. It's just an analogy.

2225
02:08:45,239 --> 02:08:46,520
It's called the henautic union.

2226
02:08:49,359 --> 02:08:49,960
Speaker 1: No, I understand.

2227
02:08:49,960 --> 02:08:52,680
Speaker 32: I guess I'm wondering then, if saying that that single

2228
02:08:52,800 --> 02:08:55,520
nature that since Cyril talks about is actually just the

2229
02:08:55,600 --> 02:08:59,479
composite then of all three effectively, right, it's a composite

2230
02:08:59,560 --> 02:09:02,560
of the human and the divine, and the human itself

2231
02:09:02,680 --> 02:09:05,760
is a compositive soul and body, but used to end

2232
02:09:05,840 --> 02:09:08,560
up with one singular composition.

2233
02:09:08,199 --> 02:09:08,920
Speaker 1: At the top level.

2234
02:09:10,199 --> 02:09:12,720
Speaker 12: Well, but even he says in the two letters sysixth

2235
02:09:12,760 --> 02:09:16,079
census that it is not a tertion quid, so's it

2236
02:09:16,199 --> 02:09:19,399
still retains the properties of being created and being uncreated,

2237
02:09:19,680 --> 02:09:22,279
which means that there's two natures. So no, it's not

2238
02:09:22,479 --> 02:09:25,479
a triplicity that's blended into a tertion quid.

2239
02:09:28,319 --> 02:09:30,720
Speaker 32: I guess that tertiaon quid would be if any of

2240
02:09:30,840 --> 02:09:35,920
the constituent ingredients change their property somehow. But the composition

2241
02:09:36,039 --> 02:09:38,560
does not necessarily require the change of properties.

2242
02:09:38,640 --> 02:09:45,000
Speaker 12: Right, tertion quid means that it's a third new thing. Right,

2243
02:09:45,119 --> 02:09:47,000
so if it's a third new thing, then we don't

2244
02:09:47,039 --> 02:09:49,439
have any connection to it anymore in orders God. So

2245
02:09:49,560 --> 02:09:51,720
it doesn't bridge the gap between God and man. That's

2246
02:09:51,760 --> 02:09:54,159
what urson quid is a reference to. So it can't

2247
02:09:54,199 --> 02:09:57,840
be a new nature that's some whole. That's all the

2248
02:09:58,000 --> 02:10:01,119
three triplicity natures are blended into. That's what That's all

2249
02:10:01,159 --> 02:10:03,119
I'm trying to say. And the two letters of ex

2250
02:10:03,199 --> 02:10:06,600
sense to say that it continues to keep its properties

2251
02:10:07,319 --> 02:10:10,079
proper to those natures. So it never ceases to be created,

2252
02:10:10,319 --> 02:10:12,560
it never ceases to be uncreated, because it's a hypostatic

2253
02:10:12,640 --> 02:10:13,960
union for all eternity.

2254
02:10:16,880 --> 02:10:19,520
Speaker 32: God it So so then let me let me ask

2255
02:10:19,520 --> 02:10:22,479
you a question about kind of like the Calcedonian you know,

2256
02:10:22,600 --> 02:10:25,079
teaching on the hypostatic union.

2257
02:10:25,159 --> 02:10:28,399
Speaker 1: Because my understanding, I think you said this before, where

2258
02:10:30,039 --> 02:10:32,840
the logos exist in the mode of humanity.

2259
02:10:32,479 --> 02:10:34,439
Speaker 12: Is that is that the phrasing that you use yeah

2260
02:10:34,520 --> 02:10:39,479
and himbostatize, right, Okay, So my question to.

2261
02:10:39,439 --> 02:10:41,920
Speaker 32: You is, because you know the incarnation can be measured

2262
02:10:41,920 --> 02:10:43,840
in a moment in time, right, Like we know, like

2263
02:10:43,920 --> 02:10:47,680
there's a time some twenty and twenty five years ago

2264
02:10:47,760 --> 02:10:50,199
or whatnot where the incarnation takes place.

2265
02:10:50,880 --> 02:10:54,039
Speaker 1: If the logos exist purely in the mode of is

2266
02:10:54,079 --> 02:10:56,680
divinity prior to some point, but then exists.

2267
02:10:56,359 --> 02:11:00,319
Speaker 32: In another mode or and hyposcifizes something new orting in

2268
02:11:00,359 --> 02:11:03,279
a moment in time, doesn't that necessarily require a change

2269
02:11:03,520 --> 02:11:05,640
in the divine hyposthesis.

2270
02:11:06,359 --> 02:11:09,039
Speaker 12: It's not a substantial change. It's a change in the

2271
02:11:09,079 --> 02:11:11,359
sense of adding something new, Like I put on a

2272
02:11:11,439 --> 02:11:13,720
coat and so I have something new on me. But

2273
02:11:13,840 --> 02:11:16,279
my substance does not change. My being does not change

2274
02:11:16,279 --> 02:11:19,560
in itself. That's why we sing in the liturgy he

2275
02:11:19,680 --> 02:11:20,560
underwent no change.

2276
02:11:23,760 --> 02:11:26,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I was just trying to reconcile the two, right.

2277
02:11:26,600 --> 02:11:30,880
Speaker 12: Like how the divinity is impassable. Divinity is impassable, he

2278
02:11:30,960 --> 02:11:33,439
can't change, right, No, I.

2279
02:11:33,479 --> 02:11:35,720
Speaker 32: Agree, I agree, hundred percent. I know that that's like

2280
02:11:35,760 --> 02:11:38,600
a bedrock, you know, foundation for everything.

2281
02:11:38,680 --> 02:11:42,079
Speaker 12: So what's meant by what's meant by the incarnation is

2282
02:11:42,119 --> 02:11:45,319
that he assumed a new nature, not that he underwent

2283
02:11:45,439 --> 02:11:50,680
substantial change. In that assumption. He's still the same divine person.

2284
02:11:51,399 --> 02:11:54,119
He's still the same divine person, that the same divine agent,

2285
02:11:54,199 --> 02:11:56,560
that the same divine subject, and now that he's added

2286
02:11:56,600 --> 02:11:59,760
a new nature, human nature to the previous divine nature

2287
02:11:59,760 --> 02:12:00,520
that he possesses.

2288
02:12:02,720 --> 02:12:04,800
Speaker 1: No, I totally understand that. I totally get it.

2289
02:12:04,800 --> 02:12:06,720
Speaker 32: I guess it's that that that that notion of and

2290
02:12:06,920 --> 02:12:09,000
hyposthetization that I'm asking about.

2291
02:12:08,840 --> 02:12:13,000
Speaker 1: Right, because that is you are giving existence to something

2292
02:12:13,119 --> 02:12:17,159
new in the hyposthosis of the locals again, which so.

2293
02:12:17,239 --> 02:12:19,640
Speaker 12: You guys misunderstand what that term means. Right, So they

2294
02:12:19,720 --> 02:12:22,359
got that the Oriental dude that tried to call in

2295
02:12:22,439 --> 02:12:26,279
ato debate, when all it means is that he assumed

2296
02:12:26,319 --> 02:12:28,359
a new a new thing, and the new thing that

2297
02:12:28,439 --> 02:12:30,760
he assumed exists in the mode of the person that

2298
02:12:30,920 --> 02:12:33,680
has it now. It doesn't mean that it changed into

2299
02:12:33,760 --> 02:12:36,399
something different. I don't know why or where you. I'm

2300
02:12:36,399 --> 02:12:38,279
not trying to be mean to you or him, but

2301
02:12:38,359 --> 02:12:40,039
I had no idea where you would get the idea

2302
02:12:40,159 --> 02:12:43,800
that the word in hypostatized means that it undergoes some

2303
02:12:43,960 --> 02:12:47,600
substantial change. If it changed its substance, it's no longer

2304
02:12:47,800 --> 02:12:50,319
the same substance. Ergo, it is no longer human nature.

2305
02:12:51,000 --> 02:12:53,640
All that changed in that sense, maybe you're referring to

2306
02:12:53,720 --> 02:12:57,720
the idea of deification. So the uncreated energies do deify

2307
02:12:57,840 --> 02:12:59,800
the humanity that he assumed. That's the teaching of the

2308
02:12:59,800 --> 02:13:02,479
same council. But it's still the human it's still a

2309
02:13:02,560 --> 02:13:05,439
human nature. It's not a human subject. It's a human

2310
02:13:05,560 --> 02:13:08,840
nature that has for its subject the divine person who

2311
02:13:08,880 --> 02:13:12,079
assumed it. So that's all in hypostatized means means it

2312
02:13:12,159 --> 02:13:14,680
refers to the mode, the mode of the nature that

2313
02:13:14,720 --> 02:13:17,079
he assumed, the human nature of Christ. The mode of

2314
02:13:17,119 --> 02:13:19,640
its existence is in is in the existence of the

2315
02:13:19,680 --> 02:13:20,720
divine person of the word.

2316
02:13:21,079 --> 02:13:21,319
Speaker 9: It's his.

2317
02:13:21,560 --> 02:13:25,159
Speaker 12: Now, just think again, Athanacious all the way up until

2318
02:13:25,239 --> 02:13:29,520
Maximus uses the analogy of a coat. Okay, it's analogy.

2319
02:13:29,880 --> 02:13:33,720
So I'm a person, Jay, I have human nature. I

2320
02:13:33,840 --> 02:13:37,119
put on a coat. I've added something to what I have.

2321
02:13:37,720 --> 02:13:40,359
That coat now exists in the mode of Jay Dyer,

2322
02:13:40,399 --> 02:13:43,239
who possesses it and has it as his own. That's

2323
02:13:43,319 --> 02:13:45,720
an analogy that the Church fathers use consistently for the

2324
02:13:45,800 --> 02:13:49,319
human nature. The coat is not a person. It becomes

2325
02:13:49,479 --> 02:13:52,079
part of my person, you could say, because it's now personalized.

2326
02:13:52,079 --> 02:13:55,000
It's Jay's coat. So the human nature that he assumed

2327
02:13:55,359 --> 02:13:57,840
becomes the human nature of the divine person of the

2328
02:13:57,880 --> 02:14:01,399
word who assumed it. It's not a subject. Does it

2329
02:14:01,520 --> 02:14:04,840
undergo a change, not substantially, but it's deified.

2330
02:14:06,720 --> 02:14:08,880
Speaker 32: No, I totally, I totally understand. I guess with the

2331
02:14:08,960 --> 02:14:11,479
code analogy, which which I like, by the way, that's.

2332
02:14:11,479 --> 02:14:14,000
Speaker 12: That's used by Maximus and athenationis.

2333
02:14:14,880 --> 02:14:15,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, it's it's great.

2334
02:14:16,359 --> 02:14:16,640
Speaker 9: I think.

2335
02:14:16,680 --> 02:14:19,560
Speaker 32: The question then becomes like the the that's a hyposthesis

2336
02:14:19,600 --> 02:14:21,439
of a code that exists in reality.

2337
02:14:21,800 --> 02:14:25,439
Speaker 12: It's not a hypostasis. It's not a hypostasis. That's the

2338
02:14:25,560 --> 02:14:28,720
confusion that you guys. It's a nature, not a hypostasis.

2339
02:14:29,479 --> 02:14:35,399
So after the Cappadocians, after the Cappadocians, hypostasis is specified

2340
02:14:35,479 --> 02:14:38,319
to refer to the subject or our agent that has

2341
02:14:38,399 --> 02:14:40,760
the nature. It is not just a nature. That's the

2342
02:14:40,840 --> 02:14:46,279
confusion here. So Orientals think. Orientals think that hypostasis refers

2343
02:14:46,319 --> 02:14:49,880
to just a concrete nature or an individuated nature, and

2344
02:14:50,000 --> 02:14:52,279
we do not believe that anymore. That's the source of

2345
02:14:52,359 --> 02:14:55,920
the confusion. Do you understand why or not?

2346
02:14:56,399 --> 02:14:56,439
Speaker 1: So?

2347
02:14:58,560 --> 02:15:01,720
Speaker 32: Well, that helped me understan right, So in terms of

2348
02:15:01,840 --> 02:15:05,800
it being a particular instantiation of a usia right, So

2349
02:15:05,960 --> 02:15:09,239
like the code analogy is a particular instantiation of that

2350
02:15:09,439 --> 02:15:10,560
particular Okay.

2351
02:15:10,359 --> 02:15:14,399
Speaker 12: That's the older definition that's used at Nicea. That's no

2352
02:15:14,560 --> 02:15:17,880
longer used after Nicia and the Cappadocians. It's it's no

2353
02:15:18,039 --> 02:15:20,960
longer used that way. So no, it's not that, And

2354
02:15:21,079 --> 02:15:25,039
that's why we make the distinction between That's why we

2355
02:15:25,159 --> 02:15:29,600
make the distinction. No, Cyril himself even makes this distinction

2356
02:15:30,119 --> 02:15:33,199
between nature and person. So no, a hypostasis is not

2357
02:15:33,520 --> 02:15:36,520
just an instantiated nature. And I mean I can prove

2358
02:15:36,560 --> 02:15:39,039
this to you very easily. How many hypostaces are there

2359
02:15:39,079 --> 02:15:39,680
in the Trinity?

2360
02:15:42,119 --> 02:15:43,439
Speaker 1: There are three hypostaces?

2361
02:15:43,479 --> 02:15:49,239
Speaker 12: Okay, so are there three instantiated natures in the Trinity? Well,

2362
02:15:49,239 --> 02:15:53,800
there are three answers, No, No, there's not. That's the

2363
02:15:53,880 --> 02:15:56,359
era of John Philipponis. There's not three natures in the Trinity.

2364
02:15:56,479 --> 02:15:59,359
There's three hypostaces with one nature. That's why you have

2365
02:15:59,439 --> 02:16:02,039
to distinguish person, because it reflects back on the trinity.

2366
02:16:02,119 --> 02:16:06,560
Speaker 1: You see, No, I understand. I did not mean to

2367
02:16:06,560 --> 02:16:08,239
say that there's three different natures, of course not.

2368
02:16:08,560 --> 02:16:10,800
Speaker 12: Okay, then you can't say that the hypostatius is just

2369
02:16:10,840 --> 02:16:13,920
an instantiated nature because there's that would be three natures,

2370
02:16:13,960 --> 02:16:15,119
three gods in the trinity.

2371
02:16:17,600 --> 02:16:20,680
Speaker 1: No, sorry to use that to use analogies again, right,

2372
02:16:20,720 --> 02:16:22,000
if there is, I'm sorry.

2373
02:16:22,039 --> 02:16:24,520
Speaker 32: I obviously divine mystery should not be compared to to

2374
02:16:24,640 --> 02:16:25,039
human things.

2375
02:16:25,079 --> 02:16:28,800
Speaker 1: But just for the sake of explaining right or or forever.

2376
02:16:28,640 --> 02:16:32,040
Speaker 12: This is why the human nature cannot be called a hypostasis.

2377
02:16:32,120 --> 02:16:35,479
It's not because for us that means a subject or

2378
02:16:35,479 --> 02:16:38,239
an agent. That would be an historian. Okay, it's a

2379
02:16:38,399 --> 02:16:40,920
human nature, not a human person or subject or agent.

2380
02:16:42,719 --> 02:16:45,159
Speaker 1: No, no, I I totally understand that. Of course, I'm

2381
02:16:45,200 --> 02:16:47,360
not accusing you of saying a second hypostasis. That's not

2382
02:16:47,440 --> 02:16:50,520
my point, right I am by No.

2383
02:16:50,600 --> 02:16:51,399
Speaker 20: No, I know that you.

2384
02:16:51,719 --> 02:16:53,520
Speaker 12: I know that you weren't saying that my position is

2385
02:16:53,520 --> 02:16:55,760
a historian. But I'm saying that there's a reason why

2386
02:16:55,879 --> 02:16:58,879
we do not call what he assumed a human hypostasis.

2387
02:16:58,959 --> 02:17:03,760
It's not. It's explicitly rejected. The human nature exists in

2388
02:17:03,879 --> 02:17:08,200
the mode of the hypostasis. Of the Sun. The only hypostasis.

2389
02:17:08,360 --> 02:17:11,239
The only person or agent there is the Sun. There's

2390
02:17:11,280 --> 02:17:14,079
no human hypostasis at all. Period. That's rejected of the

2391
02:17:14,120 --> 02:17:14,719
Six Council.

2392
02:17:15,040 --> 02:17:19,399
Speaker 1: But why does the third anathema says anathema.

2393
02:17:19,000 --> 02:17:22,559
Speaker 11: To those who divide the two hypostaces after the union you.

2394
02:17:22,559 --> 02:17:28,920
Speaker 12: Talk about ephesus or you're talking about ephysis or calcilap emphasis,

2395
02:17:30,760 --> 02:17:34,280
because at that point that's using the word hypostasis in

2396
02:17:34,360 --> 02:17:37,399
the older definition, which I'm telling you that eventually after

2397
02:17:37,479 --> 02:17:41,479
the Cappadocians, eventually this becomes specified to be agent and

2398
02:17:41,559 --> 02:17:44,920
not nature. This is why if you look at Nicea right,

2399
02:17:45,040 --> 02:17:51,879
it talks about God being what having one hypostasis. God

2400
02:17:51,959 --> 02:17:54,719
is not one hypostasis, but it means nature there.

2401
02:17:56,879 --> 02:17:59,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, at the end of the original nice and Creed,

2402
02:17:59,360 --> 02:17:59,799
I've seen that.

2403
02:18:01,040 --> 02:18:03,440
Speaker 12: That's because at that time it meant nature, and the

2404
02:18:03,799 --> 02:18:06,239
example that you're using, it's referring to nature. It's not

2405
02:18:06,360 --> 02:18:08,799
talking about the agent or the subject that has the nature.

2406
02:18:09,120 --> 02:18:12,479
This has developed after this time, specifically at the Fifth Council.

2407
02:18:12,520 --> 02:18:15,719
The Fifth Council said, this is why an hypostatize comes

2408
02:18:15,760 --> 02:18:19,120
into play, because that's intended to signify the mode of

2409
02:18:19,399 --> 02:18:21,840
the nature, which is in the subject or the person

2410
02:18:21,920 --> 02:18:22,319
that has it.

2411
02:18:24,680 --> 02:18:24,920
Speaker 1: Okay.

2412
02:18:24,920 --> 02:18:26,399
Speaker 32: I'm still trying to get a handle on the on

2413
02:18:26,520 --> 02:18:28,639
the mode thing which which is fine, it's no problem.

2414
02:18:28,879 --> 02:18:31,319
Speaker 1: I do have another question for you, which is related.

2415
02:18:31,600 --> 02:18:33,079
Speaker 12: Let me let me help you out. Let me help

2416
02:18:33,079 --> 02:18:37,440
you out. So sure nature for us, as this theology

2417
02:18:37,479 --> 02:18:41,399
gets specified after Calconon into the fifth and sixth Council,

2418
02:18:42,040 --> 02:18:46,959
nature refers to what a thing is, okay. Person refers

2419
02:18:47,040 --> 02:18:50,879
to the who, the operator, the agent, the subject, the

2420
02:18:50,959 --> 02:18:54,639
who okay, and that for us is what hypostasis ultimately

2421
02:18:54,719 --> 02:18:57,479
comes to me. We do not anymore use that older

2422
02:18:57,600 --> 02:19:00,799
definition that was used at Nicea and the example that

2423
02:19:00,840 --> 02:19:05,840
you're talking about with ephesis, and sometimes Cyril uses that

2424
02:19:05,959 --> 02:19:08,680
older definition, which is part of the there's reason why

2425
02:19:08,680 --> 02:19:11,079
there's confusion between these to end Orientals right or to

2426
02:19:11,159 --> 02:19:16,479
Orthodox Orientals. Eventually it means subject or it means subject

2427
02:19:16,559 --> 02:19:19,920
or agent, and so the confusion results from people going

2428
02:19:20,000 --> 02:19:22,760
back to the older definition of hypostasis as a nature,

2429
02:19:23,200 --> 02:19:25,639
and that's not how it's being used anymore. That's why

2430
02:19:25,799 --> 02:19:29,440
Epistle Letter thirty eight of Basil says on the distinction

2431
02:19:29,600 --> 02:19:32,520
between nature and person, and again the reason I went

2432
02:19:32,600 --> 02:19:34,360
to the trinity. Is that that's the easiest way to

2433
02:19:34,440 --> 02:19:37,079
show you that you can't use that older definition of

2434
02:19:37,120 --> 02:19:41,239
hypostasis anymore because when you refer back to the trinity,

2435
02:19:41,639 --> 02:19:45,159
it doesn't work. You can't say that there's three natures

2436
02:19:45,200 --> 02:19:48,799
in the Godhead. So how hypostasis can no longer mean

2437
02:19:49,000 --> 02:19:52,840
or refer to in the councils and in this theology

2438
02:19:53,600 --> 02:19:56,040
just an instantiated nature. It has to be more precise

2439
02:19:56,479 --> 02:19:59,120
to be the agent or the subject that has the nature,

2440
02:19:59,280 --> 02:20:00,920
hence the your person distinction.

2441
02:20:04,079 --> 02:20:06,000
Speaker 1: Okay, that's thank you for that, Jay.

2442
02:20:06,280 --> 02:20:09,840
Speaker 32: I do have a related question on that. So we

2443
02:20:09,959 --> 02:20:12,159
know the saying goes from the fathers that that is

2444
02:20:12,520 --> 02:20:15,040
what is not assumed is not saved, which of course

2445
02:20:15,120 --> 02:20:19,879
makes sense. So we know that in the incarnation, the

2446
02:20:20,000 --> 02:20:22,319
only prosopa and the only divine side and the only

2447
02:20:22,360 --> 02:20:26,159
subject is the divine person of the logos. No disagreement there,

2448
02:20:26,600 --> 02:20:29,440
I guess, is God saving human flesh and human.

2449
02:20:29,319 --> 02:20:32,159
Speaker 1: Souls or is he saving human persons? Because then there's

2450
02:20:32,239 --> 02:20:34,360
kind of like a dilemma, I think, And by the way,

2451
02:20:34,399 --> 02:20:35,360
this is a genuine question.

2452
02:20:35,760 --> 02:20:37,799
Speaker 32: I'm trying to figure out how to square this because

2453
02:20:38,399 --> 02:20:40,120
that which is not assumed, is not saved.

2454
02:20:40,159 --> 02:20:41,959
Speaker 1: And we know that he did not assume a human person.

2455
02:20:42,040 --> 02:20:45,280
That's historianism. So then all he assumes is a human

2456
02:20:45,319 --> 02:20:47,879
flesh and even soul. Is God just saving souls and

2457
02:20:47,920 --> 02:20:49,360
flesh or is he saving persons?

2458
02:20:50,840 --> 02:20:53,440
Speaker 12: No, that's the person is the unique mode of the

2459
02:20:53,520 --> 02:20:56,120
individual's existence. So this is what you're This is why

2460
02:20:56,159 --> 02:20:58,760
you're not understanding. That differs between the things and themselves

2461
02:20:58,840 --> 02:21:01,200
and the mode of the things. So mode refers to

2462
02:21:01,479 --> 02:21:03,879
how a thing exists or the way that a thing exists.

2463
02:21:04,280 --> 02:21:06,559
And this is important in theology because for example, when

2464
02:21:06,600 --> 02:21:09,360
we when we distinguish in the trinity, let's say nature

2465
02:21:09,399 --> 02:21:12,319
in person, right, and we say that there's three persons

2466
02:21:12,360 --> 02:21:15,799
and there's one common nature in the trinity. Mode helps

2467
02:21:15,840 --> 02:21:19,159
us to explain how that nature exists in what way

2468
02:21:19,799 --> 02:21:22,120
And it's not abstracted. You don't you don't have this

2469
02:21:22,280 --> 02:21:25,760
like universal nature that three hypostaces participate in, and that

2470
02:21:25,799 --> 02:21:29,799
would be platonic. The way that the divine nature exists

2471
02:21:30,040 --> 02:21:32,799
is in the mode of the persons that have the nature,

2472
02:21:32,840 --> 02:21:36,799
and so eventually hypostatized is also stated of the divine nature.

2473
02:21:36,840 --> 02:21:39,200
It exists in the mode of the three hypostaces that

2474
02:21:39,280 --> 02:21:43,159
possess it. Likewise, human nature exists in the mode of

2475
02:21:43,200 --> 02:21:47,319
the specific individual persons that possess it. I'm the person Jay,

2476
02:21:47,680 --> 02:21:51,000
You're the person Bob. We have a common nature between us,

2477
02:21:51,280 --> 02:21:53,639
but that nature exists in the unique mode of the

2478
02:21:53,719 --> 02:21:56,920
hypostasis Jay that possesses that nature. It exists in the

2479
02:21:57,000 --> 02:21:59,559
unique mode of the person Bob that possesses that same nature.

2480
02:21:59,680 --> 02:22:02,399
And so we're not clones of atom because we have

2481
02:22:02,520 --> 02:22:05,360
a unique type of stasis or hypothetic mode of existence

2482
02:22:05,719 --> 02:22:09,319
that instantiates human nature in a unique way for each person.

2483
02:22:09,840 --> 02:22:12,159
So that's the distinction between nature and persons. So Christ

2484
02:22:12,280 --> 02:22:17,760
assumes in the incarnation all human nature from all eternity,

2485
02:22:18,200 --> 02:22:21,959
all of it, and that's why all the humans are resurrected,

2486
02:22:22,120 --> 02:22:26,840
you see. But the role of person here for individual persons,

2487
02:22:27,319 --> 02:22:32,079
that's how we accrue individual responsibility for virtue or for vice.

2488
02:22:32,559 --> 02:22:34,440
So even though we're all going to be resurrected, if

2489
02:22:34,479 --> 02:22:39,040
I don't recapitulate the virtues and participate in Christ, that

2490
02:22:39,280 --> 02:22:42,159
resurrection will be an ever ill being for me, as

2491
02:22:42,239 --> 02:22:45,239
Maximus says, versus ever well being. So this is why

2492
02:22:45,360 --> 02:22:48,159
mode is very important. Not just in Godhead or in Christology,

2493
02:22:48,520 --> 02:22:53,559
but also in anthropology to distinguish individual persons. So Christ

2494
02:22:53,639 --> 02:22:56,719
assumed universal human nature, but it's up to every individual

2495
02:22:56,840 --> 02:23:02,719
person to willingly participate in that in order to receive theosis,

2496
02:23:03,079 --> 02:23:05,879
because everybody's going to be resurrected in terms of recapitulation.

2497
02:23:06,440 --> 02:23:09,920
Not everybody's going to participate in theosis. That's why it

2498
02:23:10,040 --> 02:23:14,319
requires your own mode of willing, which is in hypostatic personal.

2499
02:23:17,200 --> 02:23:18,360
Speaker 1: It's okay.

2500
02:23:18,559 --> 02:23:21,959
Speaker 32: So you're saying that the teaching casider teaching is that

2501
02:23:22,000 --> 02:23:24,360
he assumed all human nature universal.

2502
02:23:24,639 --> 02:23:29,719
Speaker 12: Absolutely, Yeah, that's why all people are resurrected. It's called recapitulation.

2503
02:23:30,079 --> 02:23:31,719
So go you to read Saint Aarnaeus and he says

2504
02:23:31,799 --> 02:23:35,920
Christ recapitulates everything that Adam lost. The totality of all

2505
02:23:36,000 --> 02:23:39,120
human nature is lost in Adam. And one grinenty is fifteen,

2506
02:23:39,319 --> 02:23:42,479
which is what Urinaus is citing. There is the recapitulation

2507
02:23:42,639 --> 02:23:45,200
of all the human nature that Adam destroyed all his descendants.

2508
02:23:45,680 --> 02:23:48,479
This is why the wicked are resurrected. It's called recapitulation.

2509
02:23:48,959 --> 02:23:51,559
It's not taught by Rome's not taught by Protestants. It's

2510
02:23:51,559 --> 02:23:54,760
taught by the Orthodox, and Saint Cyril teaches recapitulation by

2511
02:23:54,760 --> 02:23:55,000
the way.

2512
02:23:56,680 --> 02:23:58,440
Speaker 32: So let me ask you, because I always thought that

2513
02:23:58,520 --> 02:24:01,719
there was a connection between the necessity of the eucharists

2514
02:24:02,399 --> 02:24:06,239
and the resurrection, right the promise in John six that

2515
02:24:06,479 --> 02:24:08,399
he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood, you know,

2516
02:24:08,920 --> 02:24:10,399
will live forever and I will raise him on the

2517
02:24:10,479 --> 02:24:10,920
last day.

2518
02:24:11,360 --> 02:24:13,719
Speaker 1: I thought that that's how the resurrection, at least for the.

2519
02:24:13,760 --> 02:24:18,639
Speaker 12: Righteousness, everybody's resurrected. The scope is just as universal in

2520
02:24:18,680 --> 02:24:22,879
First Grident as fifteen for everyone, as as it was

2521
02:24:23,159 --> 02:24:26,559
universal that what Adam lost, So everybody who fell in

2522
02:24:26,639 --> 02:24:29,719
Adam will be raised in Christ. But that doesn't mean

2523
02:24:29,719 --> 02:24:33,520
everybody participates in thiosis, you see. That's only for those who,

2524
02:24:33,840 --> 02:24:36,959
by their own will and decision join the Church and

2525
02:24:37,120 --> 02:24:39,079
live the life of the virtues, to participate in the

2526
02:24:39,159 --> 02:24:42,840
uncreated energies to be deified. You see. That's why Maximus

2527
02:24:42,879 --> 02:24:46,360
says we're all going to the same escton. So Christ

2528
02:24:46,520 --> 02:24:50,360
in the death arone, resurrection and ascension purchased ever being

2529
02:24:50,600 --> 02:24:54,040
an immortality for all human beings, all of our natures

2530
02:24:54,079 --> 02:24:57,680
are resurrected. There's no other basis to be resurrected than

2531
02:24:57,760 --> 02:25:00,440
Christ's work. And this is why it sounds I'm not

2532
02:25:00,520 --> 02:25:02,639
calling you out personally, but it sounds odd to people

2533
02:25:03,120 --> 02:25:05,920
who've grown up. Not you, but like in Western theology

2534
02:25:05,959 --> 02:25:08,399
when they hear that Christ assume universal human nature. That's

2535
02:25:08,399 --> 02:25:11,319
why all people are resurrected. What, well, there's no other

2536
02:25:11,399 --> 02:25:15,360
basis to be resurrected. God's not just willing the wicked

2537
02:25:15,440 --> 02:25:17,920
to have hell bodies, like Augustine says, this is the

2538
02:25:17,959 --> 02:25:20,959
thing that Augustin got wrong. He doesn't teach recapitulation, even

2539
02:25:21,000 --> 02:25:23,200
though all the Eastern fathers and the people before him

2540
02:25:23,239 --> 02:25:24,079
taught recapitulation.

2541
02:25:26,680 --> 02:25:28,440
Speaker 1: So what rule does the Uchrist play then?

2542
02:25:28,479 --> 02:25:30,479
Speaker 32: Because I thought that the teaching of the fathers is

2543
02:25:30,520 --> 02:25:32,760
that you know, the trio of life and Genesis is

2544
02:25:33,000 --> 02:25:33,879
the eucharis.

2545
02:25:33,559 --> 02:25:36,440
Speaker 12: Then you're not understanding it. Just because you're resurrect it

2546
02:25:36,520 --> 02:25:39,120
doesn't mean that you're having a good experience. So, as

2547
02:25:39,239 --> 02:25:42,680
Maximum says, in the recapitulation and the restoration, if you

2548
02:25:42,760 --> 02:25:47,239
were wicked, your body will be unable to endure the

2549
02:25:47,520 --> 02:25:49,920
divine energies in presence of God, and so it becomes

2550
02:25:50,040 --> 02:25:53,200
ever ill being for you. So the resurrection becomes a

2551
02:25:53,319 --> 02:25:56,280
bad thing for you. You see, So you're that's what

2552
02:25:56,399 --> 02:25:58,680
the damned are. They're in that state of being.

2553
02:25:59,479 --> 02:26:02,040
Speaker 1: Okay, I'm willing to know that's fine. I'm willing to

2554
02:26:02,040 --> 02:26:04,360
grant that that that's not Actually, that's not what I'm questioning.

2555
02:26:04,399 --> 02:26:05,000
I'm questioning.

2556
02:26:05,120 --> 02:26:08,399
Speaker 32: So given that, what role does the Eucharist then play

2557
02:26:08,559 --> 02:26:10,440
as the tree of life in the whole kind of

2558
02:26:10,440 --> 02:26:10,920
story of self?

2559
02:26:11,079 --> 02:26:13,600
Speaker 12: Again, what I just said that you don't participate in

2560
02:26:13,719 --> 02:26:18,600
theosis deification without participating in the life of the Church.

2561
02:26:20,079 --> 02:26:23,600
So the wicked are resurrected, but they're resurrected to the

2562
02:26:23,680 --> 02:26:27,079
resurrection of the unrighteous wickedness. It's still on the basis

2563
02:26:27,120 --> 02:26:31,680
of Christ, though, but they didn't actualize the potentiality that

2564
02:26:31,719 --> 02:26:33,799
they had to become members of the church, and so

2565
02:26:33,959 --> 02:26:37,680
their experience is ever ill being. And those who participate

2566
02:26:37,840 --> 02:26:40,040
in theosis in the life of the Church and eating

2567
02:26:40,079 --> 02:26:42,840
of His flesh and blood participate in ever well being.

2568
02:26:42,959 --> 02:26:45,879
That's theosis. So the wicked are resurrected because they don't

2569
02:26:45,879 --> 02:26:46,440
have theosis.

2570
02:26:48,520 --> 02:26:48,760
Speaker 29: Got it?

2571
02:26:48,920 --> 02:26:50,040
Speaker 1: Okay, very clear?

2572
02:26:50,079 --> 02:26:52,000
Speaker 12: Thank you so much for the discussion, and this will Yeah,

2573
02:26:52,040 --> 02:26:54,600
absolutely no. They are great questions and if in this alone.

2574
02:26:54,639 --> 02:26:59,840
By the way, the point about recapitulation is something that

2575
02:27:00,280 --> 02:27:03,959
nobody in the West teaches anymore. I think this if

2576
02:27:04,040 --> 02:27:08,120
you really understand this, let's say, if we can find

2577
02:27:08,600 --> 02:27:14,799
Iranaus's comment on it. I don't know who this is

2578
02:27:15,239 --> 02:27:20,319
or what this website is, but this, this is the

2579
02:27:20,479 --> 02:27:23,520
quote here. It's against heresies five twenty one point one.

2580
02:27:25,159 --> 02:27:28,520
He therefore, in his work of recapitulation, summed up all things,

2581
02:27:28,719 --> 02:27:30,959
both waging war against our enemy and crushing him who

2582
02:27:31,000 --> 02:27:33,200
had the beginning led us away as captives in Adam

2583
02:27:33,280 --> 02:27:35,639
and trampled upon his head. As you can perceive in

2584
02:27:35,719 --> 02:27:37,680
Genesis that God said to the serpent, out the imity

2585
02:27:37,719 --> 02:27:39,319
between you and the woman, and between your seed and

2586
02:27:39,360 --> 02:27:41,280
her seed. And so he goes on to say that

2587
02:27:41,399 --> 02:27:44,000
the son of Man then vanquishes death in our nature

2588
02:27:44,159 --> 02:27:48,040
through his resurrection, which affects the entire nature. You see,

2589
02:27:48,079 --> 02:27:50,479
So Adam sins and everything that comes out of his

2590
02:27:50,719 --> 02:27:55,159
progeny is subject to death, decay, immortality, and the loss

2591
02:27:55,200 --> 02:27:59,600
of thiosis. In Christ, the nature is restored to be

2592
02:27:59,760 --> 02:28:03,360
in That's why it's resurrected. There's no other basis for

2593
02:28:03,520 --> 02:28:08,120
resurrection than Christ. God doesn't just like arbitrarily will that

2594
02:28:08,200 --> 02:28:11,200
all the wicked be resurrected, and they have no connection

2595
02:28:11,280 --> 02:28:14,879
to Christ. One Christian is fifteen is teaching recapitulation, and

2596
02:28:15,000 --> 02:28:20,639
it's comparing the scope to Christ. And this is really

2597
02:28:20,680 --> 02:28:27,319
hard for Protestants and Roman callous to understand. So that's

2598
02:28:27,360 --> 02:28:45,079
why we come over here. And Christ has risen from

2599
02:28:45,079 --> 02:28:46,760
the dead, has become the first fruits of those who

2600
02:28:46,799 --> 02:28:50,200
fallen asleep. For by man came death. So also by

2601
02:28:50,280 --> 02:28:52,920
man comes resurrection of the dead. For an atom all die.

2602
02:28:53,079 --> 02:28:55,600
So in Christ all will be made alive, each one

2603
02:28:55,680 --> 02:28:57,520
in his own order. Christ is the first fruits and

2604
02:28:57,520 --> 02:28:59,559
afterwards of those who come after him. At his coming,

2605
02:29:00,200 --> 02:29:02,159
then is the end when he delivers the kingdom up

2606
02:29:02,200 --> 02:29:04,200
to God right, so he must reign until he's put

2607
02:29:04,239 --> 02:29:06,639
all enemies under his feet. The last time me to

2608
02:29:06,680 --> 02:29:08,600
be destroy his death, and then he will be all

2609
02:29:08,680 --> 02:29:11,399
and in all. So you'll notice the scope of what

2610
02:29:11,600 --> 02:29:15,840
Adam brought right is to all human beings. Likewise, all

2611
02:29:16,000 --> 02:29:18,639
people are resurrected in the general resurrection only on the

2612
02:29:18,680 --> 02:29:22,159
basis of Christ. There's no other basis for resurrection. And

2613
02:29:22,280 --> 02:29:26,040
this is called recapitulation, which is taught by the Eastern fathers.

2614
02:29:26,079 --> 02:29:29,440
It is not taught in Western Latin theology, and it's

2615
02:29:29,760 --> 02:29:31,719
it's taught by Cyril. I don't so let me get

2616
02:29:31,760 --> 02:29:34,120
I'm not dissing that previous guy. But we've got like

2617
02:29:34,520 --> 02:29:38,000
orientals coming in here trying to quote Ceil teaches recapitulation.

2618
02:29:38,639 --> 02:29:40,319
So it's like, do you not read you guys, don't

2619
02:29:40,319 --> 02:29:45,559
read your own dudes. I mean, Cyril explicitly says, Jesus

2620
02:29:45,600 --> 02:29:50,600
assumes universal human nature. How else are all humans resurrected?

2621
02:29:50,959 --> 02:29:54,399
There's no other basis for it. There's a great article,

2622
02:29:54,440 --> 02:29:58,719
by the way, but orthodox professor that touches on this,

2623
02:30:10,360 --> 02:30:13,920
Jesus Christ the universal person. And this is an article

2624
02:30:13,959 --> 02:30:21,040
written by uh, I'm trying to remember this professor's name, Manzeriites.

2625
02:30:21,040 --> 02:30:24,680
He's the guy that wrote the Palomas book, Georgios Manserrites.

2626
02:30:25,079 --> 02:30:27,360
And by the way, his Palomas book says that youse

2627
02:30:27,680 --> 02:30:31,280
that this that uh, the Theophanes are actually seen by

2628
02:30:31,360 --> 02:30:32,440
the visible eye as well.

2629
02:30:33,200 --> 02:30:33,319
Speaker 3: Uh.

2630
02:30:33,440 --> 02:30:35,639
Speaker 12: So this is something that refutes the people who constantly

2631
02:30:35,680 --> 02:30:38,280
try to argue with me, people who were just sending

2632
02:30:38,319 --> 02:30:41,879
in the super chats who claim to be translators, who

2633
02:30:41,879 --> 02:30:45,920
don't have any degree in anything, even though Manserrites says

2634
02:30:46,000 --> 02:30:49,319
that they saw the Theophanies with their physical physical eyes.

2635
02:30:51,559 --> 02:30:51,799
Speaker 1: RC.

2636
02:30:53,200 --> 02:30:54,079
Speaker 12: I don't know this guy.

2637
02:30:59,520 --> 02:31:06,760
Speaker 1: M Hello, yep, hey, it's working today, thankfully.

2638
02:31:07,600 --> 02:31:08,360
Speaker 12: What's on your mind?

2639
02:31:09,479 --> 02:31:14,200
Speaker 1: So a clarifying question before I get to my actual question.

2640
02:31:15,120 --> 02:31:18,000
Do you believe that Mary is the mother of God

2641
02:31:18,159 --> 02:31:18,639
in heaven?

2642
02:31:19,600 --> 02:31:22,399
Speaker 12: Yes, she never lost that status because it is always

2643
02:31:22,440 --> 02:31:24,559
the case that the person that came forth from her

2644
02:31:24,799 --> 02:31:25,559
is God.

2645
02:31:26,840 --> 02:31:27,120
Speaker 1: Got it.

2646
02:31:27,479 --> 02:31:29,399
Speaker 20: So, then, who was the mother of Jesus Before he.

2647
02:31:29,479 --> 02:31:29,959
Speaker 9: Was on earth?

2648
02:31:32,959 --> 02:31:34,959
Speaker 12: He did not have a mother because he was not

2649
02:31:35,120 --> 02:31:36,520
yet born as a man.

2650
02:31:37,479 --> 02:31:39,559
Speaker 1: So why would that change in the heavenly rom.

2651
02:31:40,440 --> 02:31:42,520
Speaker 12: Because he stepped into time and space and took on

2652
02:31:42,680 --> 02:31:43,879
human nature and a human mother.

2653
02:31:44,920 --> 02:31:46,879
Speaker 20: Yeah, human mother will He was human, but in his

2654
02:31:47,000 --> 02:31:49,159
divine form in heaven he's not.

2655
02:31:49,559 --> 02:31:50,360
Speaker 1: He doesn't have a mother.

2656
02:31:51,200 --> 02:31:53,520
Speaker 12: He's still in his human nature. He ascended in the

2657
02:31:53,600 --> 02:31:56,760
human nature that he assumed on earth, so he's still

2658
02:31:56,840 --> 02:31:57,159
a man.

2659
02:31:58,319 --> 02:32:01,079
Speaker 20: So Jesus' nature changed before he was onearthed.

2660
02:32:00,719 --> 02:32:04,440
Speaker 12: To after didn't change. Is the same human nature that

2661
02:32:04,559 --> 02:32:07,319
we have, except that nature is deified. That's why they

2662
02:32:07,440 --> 02:32:09,799
touch him after the resurrection and he eats fish with

2663
02:32:09,920 --> 02:32:12,440
them to signify that he still has a human nature.

2664
02:32:12,920 --> 02:32:17,079
Didn't go away. We're not gnostics. He has the same nature.

2665
02:32:17,120 --> 02:32:18,079
It's just deified.

2666
02:32:19,680 --> 02:32:20,840
Speaker 1: He was always deified.

2667
02:32:21,719 --> 02:32:23,879
Speaker 12: The human nature was not always deified.

2668
02:32:25,159 --> 02:32:27,280
Speaker 20: But we believe he came down in human form even

2669
02:32:27,360 --> 02:32:28,760
before Mary conceived him.

2670
02:32:29,639 --> 02:32:31,799
Speaker 12: Uh no, he did not have a human form before

2671
02:32:31,840 --> 02:32:32,479
the incarnation.

2672
02:32:35,319 --> 02:32:38,760
Speaker 20: So then in the Old Testament, I think it was

2673
02:32:39,200 --> 02:32:40,920
was who is David wrestling with?

2674
02:32:42,760 --> 02:32:45,079
Speaker 12: No, it's not David, it's Jacob. So you're not even familiar.

2675
02:32:45,200 --> 02:32:46,680
You're not even familiar with the Old Testament.

2676
02:32:46,840 --> 02:32:48,639
Speaker 20: So I got I got one name wrong.

2677
02:32:49,079 --> 02:32:52,079
Speaker 12: No, you're completely mixed up, like two very different people.

2678
02:32:52,159 --> 02:32:53,760
So you're talking about a genesis.

2679
02:32:55,040 --> 02:32:57,559
Speaker 1: The Lord because I got a name wrong. So I

2680
02:32:57,639 --> 02:32:58,959
know nothing about the Old Testament.

2681
02:32:59,000 --> 02:33:02,159
Speaker 12: We're done. You're not familiar with basic theology at all,

2682
02:33:02,239 --> 02:33:03,799
so I don't know. We're trying to debate it. That

2683
02:33:04,000 --> 02:33:07,840
was the RC guy that wastes everyone's time. Terry, what's up.

2684
02:33:14,079 --> 02:33:16,680
I've already lectured on the Theophanes countless times. I'm not

2685
02:33:16,840 --> 02:33:24,879
going to go through all this all again. Go ahead,

2686
02:33:28,799 --> 02:33:29,120
just have a.

2687
02:33:29,159 --> 02:33:33,879
Speaker 42: Quick question about we have been saying recently on many

2688
02:33:34,079 --> 02:33:38,280
shows about how you are in support of the Microsoft

2689
02:33:38,319 --> 02:33:43,719
implants since I can somewhat what circumstances such as you

2690
02:33:43,879 --> 02:33:45,479
find many members we have fucking.

2691
02:33:45,959 --> 02:33:48,280
Speaker 12: Know, yeah, we have a guy at our church that

2692
02:33:48,399 --> 02:33:50,760
has the same thing. So what doesn't mean I'm a

2693
02:33:50,799 --> 02:33:51,959
support of microchips?

2694
02:33:52,479 --> 02:33:56,799
Speaker 42: Well, my question is since the Orthodox Church has historically

2695
02:33:56,879 --> 02:33:59,559
been opposed to that, how.

2696
02:33:59,520 --> 02:33:59,840
Speaker 17: Would you go?

2697
02:34:00,760 --> 02:34:03,000
Speaker 12: Well, then you can expose me as a supporter of

2698
02:34:03,040 --> 02:34:05,559
anti christian so go have fun with that. I'm on

2699
02:34:05,760 --> 02:34:06,159
what's up?

2700
02:34:12,760 --> 02:34:15,000
Speaker 46: Hey, j Thanks for having the impatience to deal with

2701
02:34:15,079 --> 02:34:19,120
these idiots. But quick question, can you hear me?

2702
02:34:19,440 --> 02:34:19,639
Speaker 12: Yeah?

2703
02:34:20,399 --> 02:34:23,959
Speaker 46: Okay, I just got the Peter Chef thirty eight volume

2704
02:34:24,319 --> 02:34:27,360
Church Father said, any recommendations.

2705
02:34:26,639 --> 02:34:27,840
Speaker 12: Because Philip Chef.

2706
02:34:28,000 --> 02:34:30,719
Speaker 1: It's yeah, Philip Jeck Philo Chef, That's what I mean.

2707
02:34:31,719 --> 02:34:32,479
Speaker 12: Any recommendation.

2708
02:34:32,600 --> 02:34:35,760
Speaker 46: Now I can go about reading it because I thought

2709
02:34:35,799 --> 02:34:38,040
maybe you would have some recommendations because you've.

2710
02:34:37,879 --> 02:34:38,440
Speaker 1: Done it before.

2711
02:34:39,440 --> 02:34:41,559
Speaker 12: I mean I read every all thirty eight volumes. I

2712
02:34:41,600 --> 02:34:44,120
read a lot of it. I mean I would start

2713
02:34:44,200 --> 02:34:49,520
with Afthenacious on the Incarnation. I would read Gregory Nazianzus'

2714
02:34:49,840 --> 02:34:53,520
theological orations. I would read Basils on the Holy Spirit.

2715
02:34:56,959 --> 02:34:59,879
Then I would say maybe something like Jerome against Telvidias,

2716
02:35:00,120 --> 02:35:04,319
Jerome against Vigilantius. That's how I would go about it.

2717
02:35:06,280 --> 02:35:07,760
And then I would then I would start reading like

2718
02:35:07,799 --> 02:35:11,840
maybe the Ecumenical Councils and the basic documents in the

2719
02:35:12,000 --> 02:35:14,399
because one of the volumes is the Seven Ecumenical Cultures.

2720
02:35:14,680 --> 02:35:16,360
Speaker 46: That's what I'm happy i'd call it too, because I

2721
02:35:16,360 --> 02:35:20,079
already started reading that and I was like, just confused,

2722
02:35:20,159 --> 02:35:21,600
So I'll start the other way around.

2723
02:35:22,799 --> 02:35:25,319
Speaker 12: You might also, uh, if you don't want to start

2724
02:35:25,760 --> 02:35:28,239
with that, because those are pretty heavy theology works. If

2725
02:35:28,239 --> 02:35:30,680
you want to start a little bit easier, you could

2726
02:35:30,719 --> 02:35:33,559
start with the post Apostolic Fathers and read like the

2727
02:35:33,680 --> 02:35:36,559
Letters of Clement, the Letters of Ignatius. That might be

2728
02:35:36,639 --> 02:35:39,959
an easier starting point than just starting with Athenacious, but

2729
02:35:40,319 --> 02:35:50,239
that's where I would recommend starting. Let's see, I thought

2730
02:35:50,280 --> 02:35:51,959
somebody was a messaging me and not wanting to come

2731
02:35:52,000 --> 02:36:07,239
to debate. I don't know who this person is, so

2732
02:36:08,680 --> 02:36:10,559
I think I have a podcast up to go. Do

2733
02:36:10,639 --> 02:36:13,200
here in a little bit subs account.

2734
02:36:17,600 --> 02:36:22,520
Speaker 1: Hell, yeah, Hi, I'm currently.

2735
02:36:22,239 --> 02:36:25,879
Speaker 47: Looking into orthodoxy. I've been passively observing different conversations and

2736
02:36:25,920 --> 02:36:27,840
debates for about.

2737
02:36:27,600 --> 02:36:28,840
Speaker 3: A year and a half now, and I'm at the

2738
02:36:28,840 --> 02:36:32,120
point where I'd like to convert. But my issue right now.

2739
02:36:32,079 --> 02:36:32,559
Speaker 32: Is my husband.

2740
02:36:32,600 --> 02:36:33,760
Speaker 3: He's not fully on board.

2741
02:36:34,239 --> 02:36:37,399
Speaker 47: Part of him is convinced that it's kind of culty

2742
02:36:38,120 --> 02:36:40,079
because he grew up Protestant and.

2743
02:36:40,200 --> 02:36:41,159
Speaker 3: He's in a or.

2744
02:36:41,239 --> 02:36:42,760
Speaker 47: Growing up, he was part of a church where his

2745
02:36:42,879 --> 02:36:45,319
mom has been able to get ordained and everything. And

2746
02:36:45,600 --> 02:36:49,079
though his faith isn't that strong right now, he's been

2747
02:36:49,200 --> 02:36:51,399
churched enough to be very wary of the different things

2748
02:36:51,440 --> 02:36:56,280
positive by the Orthodox Faith. And his strongest thing that's

2749
02:36:56,319 --> 02:36:59,159
creeping him out is dealing with relics, and I have

2750
02:36:59,280 --> 02:37:02,120
a hard time any information about that. Do you have

2751
02:37:02,120 --> 02:37:04,559
any recommendations that would help broak the subject because we

2752
02:37:04,639 --> 02:37:05,399
have four children?

2753
02:37:05,840 --> 02:37:12,520
Speaker 12: Yeah, I mean read Jerome's essay on relics. It's a classic.

2754
02:37:18,959 --> 02:37:24,000
I always get against Vigilantius and against Helvidius mixed up.

2755
02:37:25,879 --> 02:37:33,200
The one on relics is against Vigilantius, and Jerome will

2756
02:37:33,239 --> 02:37:35,840
go through a lot of proof texts and just show

2757
02:37:36,000 --> 02:37:38,280
kind of the tradition of the Church from the earliest days.

2758
02:37:39,680 --> 02:37:47,319
Against Helvidius is about perpetual virginity. But yeah, against Vigilantius,

2759
02:37:50,559 --> 02:37:54,440
we got some super jets KG. Ninety nine. Do you

2760
02:37:54,440 --> 02:37:57,680
think Muslims would try to use that to say that

2761
02:37:57,799 --> 02:37:59,879
Mohammed is a correction of the true teaching of the

2762
02:38:00,159 --> 02:38:03,680
Kingdom or they would go with something like what Daniel said,

2763
02:38:03,680 --> 02:38:07,959
that Muhammad is the new Moses continue in the old office. Well,

2764
02:38:08,000 --> 02:38:10,200
I mean, we've actually brought up this point about the

2765
02:38:10,239 --> 02:38:14,559
finality of divine revelation many times to Muslims and what

2766
02:38:14,680 --> 02:38:17,479
do you can you guess what they say? Oh, it's

2767
02:38:17,520 --> 02:38:20,040
all corrupted, right, That's that's usually what they go to.

2768
02:38:21,399 --> 02:38:23,639
Few became a member. What's up? Few shout out to him.

2769
02:38:24,360 --> 02:38:26,120
I think you just have to point out, as I've

2770
02:38:26,159 --> 02:38:28,079
done many times in many live streams. I think we've

2771
02:38:28,120 --> 02:38:33,079
even clipped it, like there's no new revelations. Zachariah was

2772
02:38:33,159 --> 02:38:37,000
at thirteen eight thirteen predicts that in the Messianic era,

2773
02:38:37,079 --> 02:38:40,559
there's no there's no more profits. Luke sixteen sixteen sixteen

2774
02:38:40,639 --> 02:38:45,239
is very clear that Jesus is explaining that John is

2775
02:38:45,280 --> 02:38:49,319
the last of the Old Testament lineage of prophets. That's

2776
02:38:49,360 --> 02:38:51,000
why Joseph Smith changed that verse.

2777
02:38:51,440 --> 02:38:51,559
Speaker 9: Right.

2778
02:38:51,600 --> 02:38:55,399
Speaker 12: We've argued this with countless Mormons. If you look at

2779
02:38:55,440 --> 02:38:58,280
Luke sixteen sixteen and the Joseph Smith translation. He changed

2780
02:38:58,319 --> 02:39:00,879
it because it's clearly says that there's there's no more

2781
02:39:00,879 --> 02:39:04,520
Old Testament prophets. And if that's the case, then out

2782
02:39:04,600 --> 02:39:07,799
goes Muhammad, outgoes Joseph Smith. You say, so he had

2783
02:39:07,879 --> 02:39:11,479
to change it. But also, you know, Jude says in

2784
02:39:11,559 --> 02:39:13,159
Jude three is the faith ones we're all delivered to

2785
02:39:13,159 --> 02:39:21,680
the saints. You get in Tessalonians or Sue mean Galatians one.

2786
02:39:21,760 --> 02:39:25,760
Paul says that it's you know, his teaching is the

2787
02:39:25,879 --> 02:39:29,760
judge of anything else that comes. And then providentially, you

2788
02:39:29,799 --> 02:39:33,520
could argue that in Revelation twenty two it talks about

2789
02:39:33,559 --> 02:39:35,719
not adding to or taken away because there's i think

2790
02:39:35,719 --> 02:39:39,079
an assumption of finality to the revelation of the Book

2791
02:39:39,079 --> 02:39:41,600
of the Apocalypse. Now there could have been, you know,

2792
02:39:41,799 --> 02:39:44,559
in John's day, when he was alive, he could still

2793
02:39:45,399 --> 02:39:47,680
preach the oral word of God, and it was the

2794
02:39:47,719 --> 02:39:50,399
word of God, and the apostles identify their oral preaching

2795
02:39:50,440 --> 02:39:52,959
as the word of God. But when the alas Apostle

2796
02:39:53,079 --> 02:39:59,000
dies John, there's no more divine revelations. There's no more

2797
02:39:59,040 --> 02:40:01,959
public divine revelation. Hence it's the faith wance for all

2798
02:40:02,000 --> 02:40:04,920
delivered to the saints. Now, there can be miracles and

2799
02:40:05,000 --> 02:40:08,840
there can be clairvoyance, but that is not divine revelation.

2800
02:40:09,040 --> 02:40:13,159
It's not the same thing as what is the apostolic

2801
02:40:13,319 --> 02:40:17,639
deposit And another way we know this is that the

2802
02:40:17,760 --> 02:40:22,399
Montanists are condemned for this position, for saying that there's

2803
02:40:22,479 --> 02:40:27,440
ongoing divine revelation and then there's ecstatic, gibberish utterance. And

2804
02:40:27,680 --> 02:40:31,639
it should be obvious why we want this to be

2805
02:40:31,719 --> 02:40:34,079
the case is that it cuts off all these all

2806
02:40:34,120 --> 02:40:38,840
this nonsense. We're not going to fall prey to all

2807
02:40:38,920 --> 02:40:43,120
the cults and the Muslims and the Mormons, because there's

2808
02:40:43,159 --> 02:40:47,319
a finality to this. So I just don't. I don't

2809
02:40:47,440 --> 02:40:50,680
get where and why anybody would even want this living

2810
02:40:50,719 --> 02:40:52,680
water five dollars. Glad to see you still doing your thing.

2811
02:40:52,719 --> 02:40:55,120
I hope there's more collapse with sam Hid to come.

2812
02:40:55,760 --> 02:40:58,280
I mean, I'm officially a writer on the Sam Hi Show,

2813
02:40:58,360 --> 02:41:01,959
so I don't. I mean, I could theoretically not be

2814
02:41:02,040 --> 02:41:04,200
asked to continue to write. But as far as I know,

2815
02:41:05,000 --> 02:41:07,000
I mean, they're they're touring and doing stand up right now.

2816
02:41:07,120 --> 02:41:10,000
But I assume I'll be writing on episode three, So

2817
02:41:10,520 --> 02:41:13,680
I mean, he sam seemed to like and use a

2818
02:41:13,719 --> 02:41:19,040
lot of what I'd put into the first two episodes,

2819
02:41:19,120 --> 02:41:22,680
so I would guess I'm still I mean, I think

2820
02:41:22,719 --> 02:41:26,319
there's still gonna be collapsed anonymous ten dollars. Calvinists often

2821
02:41:26,360 --> 02:41:29,600
say that God does things arbitraary. It's called theological voluntarism.

2822
02:41:31,040 --> 02:41:33,440
Quote according to his will, his orthodoxical we say that

2823
02:41:33,520 --> 02:41:35,760
arbitrary in this is something that only fallen creatures have

2824
02:41:35,879 --> 02:41:40,000
as a gnomic will. Well, it's just really an idea

2825
02:41:40,200 --> 02:41:44,079
that they collapse God's will into his nature, into his essence,

2826
02:41:44,120 --> 02:41:46,159
and they kind of make these things the same because

2827
02:41:46,159 --> 02:41:50,799
they have a divine absolutely doing simplicity position. So I

2828
02:41:50,879 --> 02:41:54,200
condom Matt two dollars. How many natures does yacub have? Infinite?

2829
02:41:55,280 --> 02:41:58,319
Condom Matt two dollars. Jay start a funk go coin. Well,

2830
02:41:58,520 --> 02:42:01,440
I'm pretty much a bitcoin supremacists, so I'm not going

2831
02:42:01,520 --> 02:42:06,360
to be starting any any cryptos because I tell people

2832
02:42:06,479 --> 02:42:09,719
to stack bitcoin, and I mean, I don't know why

2833
02:42:10,040 --> 02:42:12,520
you guys still haven't been listening. I mean, we're at

2834
02:42:14,559 --> 02:42:18,639
almost we're right next to all time highs again. All

2835
02:42:18,719 --> 02:42:22,600
time high was what last week one o eight and

2836
02:42:23,239 --> 02:42:25,799
we're at one oh five to two, so we're only

2837
02:42:25,799 --> 02:42:28,159
a few thousand dollars away from all time high. And

2838
02:42:28,200 --> 02:42:30,600
people are like, couldn't wait till the dip to forty K.

2839
02:42:31,000 --> 02:42:32,680
I don't think are going to be a dip to

2840
02:42:32,719 --> 02:42:34,440
forty K. I mean, you can wait all you want,

2841
02:42:34,440 --> 02:42:35,680
you do what you want. I can't tell you what

2842
02:42:35,760 --> 02:42:39,559
to do. But I don't play markets like people think, Oh,

2843
02:42:39,600 --> 02:42:40,639
you're gonna play the market.

2844
02:42:41,280 --> 02:42:41,760
Speaker 10: Not really.

2845
02:42:42,520 --> 02:42:45,040
Speaker 12: I have in the past. I've followed the cycles, and

2846
02:42:45,120 --> 02:42:47,079
I've tried this and that trading, and I did all

2847
02:42:47,120 --> 02:42:49,799
I did all that for many years. But it's a

2848
02:42:49,879 --> 02:42:52,159
lot safer to just stack bitcoin and you don't even

2849
02:42:52,159 --> 02:42:54,879
you don't have to worry about anything. So you know,

2850
02:42:55,000 --> 02:42:57,719
I'm actually toying with the Jack Mallers plan of like

2851
02:42:58,079 --> 02:43:01,719
not even using feat at all, and you can get

2852
02:43:01,799 --> 02:43:05,799
strike app and literally live on bitcoin. The only reason

2853
02:43:05,840 --> 02:43:07,840
I haven't done that is that I'm not sure that.

2854
02:43:07,959 --> 02:43:09,799
I mean, we already almost kind of do that. Pretty

2855
02:43:09,879 --> 02:43:12,879
much all Fiat I get is automatically converted into bitcoin anyway.

2856
02:43:13,000 --> 02:43:17,479
I just have to pay taxes with FIAT, so I

2857
02:43:17,559 --> 02:43:21,559
don't know if it would actually benefit me to pay

2858
02:43:22,319 --> 02:43:25,920
taxes in bitcoin because you pay capital gains tax, so

2859
02:43:26,680 --> 02:43:33,040
to me that seems counterintuitive. But also his his strategy

2860
02:43:33,159 --> 02:43:35,840
might be because he has a business, so maybe maybe

2861
02:43:35,879 --> 02:43:37,840
his setup is a little bit different having a business.

2862
02:43:38,200 --> 02:43:41,559
So I don't know how his taxes work, because I'm

2863
02:43:41,600 --> 02:43:45,319
sure he has a multimillion dollar business that probably pays

2864
02:43:45,319 --> 02:43:47,440
a lot of tax I don't know his situation. But

2865
02:43:52,559 --> 02:44:03,920
where was the bitcoin question? Over right there? I want

2866
02:44:03,920 --> 02:44:05,559
to remind you guys see that we have a show sponsor,

2867
02:44:05,600 --> 02:44:08,600
which is chalk dot com choq dot com, the best

2868
02:44:08,719 --> 02:44:11,959
in supplementation. You can head on over to chalk dot com.

2869
02:44:12,000 --> 02:44:13,799
You use a probably go J forty four live jy

2870
02:44:13,840 --> 02:44:15,799
four four l I f E to get forty four

2871
02:44:15,840 --> 02:44:21,239
percent off all of those awesome, awesome products. My lamp

2872
02:44:21,319 --> 02:44:23,959
got too heated and it burned out over here. There's

2873
02:44:24,000 --> 02:44:27,680
too much there's too much chalk energy radiating off of me.

2874
02:44:27,760 --> 02:44:31,200
It burned out my little lamp here. So it's kind

2875
02:44:31,239 --> 02:44:34,079
of it's kind of a dark vibe in here. We

2876
02:44:34,200 --> 02:44:37,719
had a dark synth wave vibe in here. My favorite,

2877
02:44:37,760 --> 02:44:40,200
as you guys know, is that tongue cattleee. I'm a

2878
02:44:40,239 --> 02:44:43,120
big fan of the tongue cattlee and it's proven to

2879
02:44:43,239 --> 02:44:47,120
boost testosrum. So people are like, when do you sell?

2880
02:44:47,399 --> 02:44:52,440
You guys don't understand. It's it's like that meme that

2881
02:44:52,559 --> 02:44:59,040
you see where it's Neo talking to Morpheus and Morphius says,

2882
02:45:00,200 --> 02:45:04,520
when you understand bitcoin THEO, you won't even ask about selling.

2883
02:45:04,799 --> 02:45:09,159
You won't sell, You never sell. That's the point. It's not.

2884
02:45:09,639 --> 02:45:13,000
It's not you've misunderstood what this is and what my

2885
02:45:13,079 --> 02:45:16,799
philosophy on this is. It's not playing a market. It's

2886
02:45:16,879 --> 02:45:22,159
stacking the future of the world reserve currency. And you

2887
02:45:22,280 --> 02:45:27,159
understand that what four states just said that they want

2888
02:45:27,239 --> 02:45:31,719
to have a strategic bitcoin reserve. You don't understand how

2889
02:45:31,760 --> 02:45:35,280
bullish that is. Like Trump just passed the Crypto bill

2890
02:45:35,799 --> 02:45:39,959
or exsume executive order. It's not perfect. I would rather

2891
02:45:40,159 --> 02:45:42,040
be bitcoin and not just crypto, but you know, we'll

2892
02:45:42,079 --> 02:45:46,000
take what I can get if the Loomis Bill passes.

2893
02:45:46,040 --> 02:45:46,319
Speaker 36: Do you not?

2894
02:45:46,719 --> 02:45:50,280
Speaker 12: I don't, Like, I know we're talking about theology day,

2895
02:45:50,360 --> 02:45:54,159
but I just don't understand why you guys don't get

2896
02:45:54,360 --> 02:45:58,559
bitcoin yet. Like I have a super smart audience. How

2897
02:45:58,639 --> 02:46:03,600
do you guys not get this it's not that complicated.

2898
02:46:04,680 --> 02:46:07,360
It does take understanding. It feed a reserve field system,

2899
02:46:07,479 --> 02:46:09,639
so I guess that's over most people's heads. But this

2900
02:46:09,799 --> 02:46:12,879
is an audience that already understands that. So is it

2901
02:46:13,120 --> 02:46:16,200
just the boomer mindset of it not being physical? Like

2902
02:46:16,239 --> 02:46:18,479
boomers just don't understand it. I can't touch it, it

2903
02:46:18,559 --> 02:46:22,000
ain't real, well, Boomers? Do you send emails? Okay? Or

2904
02:46:22,040 --> 02:46:24,040
do you write letters? Do you send emails?

2905
02:46:24,159 --> 02:46:24,360
Speaker 9: Okay?

2906
02:46:24,399 --> 02:46:27,920
Speaker 12: Boomers? Do you do electronic banking? Every boomer I know

2907
02:46:28,040 --> 02:46:32,520
has the banking app on their phone and boomers are

2908
02:46:32,639 --> 02:46:35,639
using Zel. Now okay, you're using Zel, but you don't

2909
02:46:35,879 --> 02:46:43,239
like anyway? Do you suggest stacking Bitcoin or eth has

2910
02:46:43,319 --> 02:46:47,319
been a giant mass lately. When I was doing trading

2911
02:46:48,520 --> 02:46:51,239
when when Eth popped off, we did pretty good. We

2912
02:46:51,360 --> 02:46:53,200
made good on the ethereum when it went from like

2913
02:46:54,879 --> 02:46:56,920
remember when it was like seven hundred and five seven

2914
02:46:56,959 --> 02:47:01,559
hundred dollars and then it went up to like four thousand. Uh,

2915
02:47:01,719 --> 02:47:03,719
we did pretty good with that, and then I just

2916
02:47:03,760 --> 02:47:06,000
flipped everything over into bitcoin. So I don't care anything

2917
02:47:06,040 --> 02:47:09,319
about like stacking now. I don't stack eth. Eth is

2918
02:47:09,360 --> 02:47:12,680
pretty sucky, dude, Like it's when it gets high traffic.

2919
02:47:13,120 --> 02:47:15,959
Every transaction is hundreds of dollars. I mean, it's just ridiculous.

2920
02:47:16,719 --> 02:47:22,520
So and uh eth is centralized. It's I don't know,

2921
02:47:22,760 --> 02:47:27,920
I don't It's that's why over time I just have

2922
02:47:28,040 --> 02:47:32,079
more and more been bitcoin supremacist. So anyway, head on

2923
02:47:32,120 --> 02:47:34,040
over to chalk dot com. He's just prone code Jay

2924
02:47:34,239 --> 02:47:38,000
forty four life, jy four four life you to get

2925
02:47:38,000 --> 02:47:44,959
forty four percent off all those great products. It's like,

2926
02:47:45,040 --> 02:47:46,920
I just like you guys come in the chat and

2927
02:47:47,040 --> 02:47:51,719
you say all the same stupid thud that you heard

2928
02:47:51,920 --> 02:47:55,399
some boomer say on MSNBC, and you say it to

2929
02:47:55,479 --> 02:47:59,319
sound smart, and you don't sound smart, Like I know

2930
02:47:59,399 --> 02:48:02,479
that you're just heating fud that you heard on boom

2931
02:48:02,559 --> 02:48:05,840
or financial shows to sound smart, and you don't know

2932
02:48:05,959 --> 02:48:09,760
what you're talking about. Like bitcoin is a vast rabbit

2933
02:48:09,799 --> 02:48:13,639
hole of lore, okay, and I don't know all the lore.

2934
02:48:14,840 --> 02:48:17,280
Will it hit one million? Dude, you don't understand. If

2935
02:48:17,360 --> 02:48:22,040
the Loomis Bill passes, the government is buying I don't

2936
02:48:22,040 --> 02:48:24,079
care about whether you think it's good or not. The

2937
02:48:24,239 --> 02:48:29,200
government is buying a million bitcoin in five years. That

2938
02:48:29,440 --> 02:48:32,799
means bitcoin will be one million dollars per per coin

2939
02:48:33,239 --> 02:48:38,840
in five years at least? Does this not register with you, guys,

2940
02:48:40,280 --> 02:48:44,680
I'm trying to help you. Don't waste my time and

2941
02:48:44,799 --> 02:48:48,639
your time typing out boomeror fud that you heard Dave

2942
02:48:48,719 --> 02:48:53,760
Ramsey say to sound smart. You don't sound smart, and

2943
02:48:53,959 --> 02:48:57,639
nobody in the chat cares that you think you're sounding smart. No,

2944
02:48:57,799 --> 02:49:03,479
I don't do XRP. Why I want some centralized CEO thing. Well,

2945
02:49:03,520 --> 02:49:06,000
you might make money any short term, maybe you can't

2946
02:49:06,040 --> 02:49:08,479
go for it. That's your thing. I don't want XRP.

2947
02:49:09,040 --> 02:49:15,239
I disagree with it philosophically. The only thing that has

2948
02:49:15,319 --> 02:49:18,680
any potential of taking over the world is bitcoin, and

2949
02:49:18,799 --> 02:49:20,680
it's starting to do that. Do you not see this?

2950
02:49:23,799 --> 02:49:25,799
By the way, so everybody and I know everything that

2951
02:49:25,840 --> 02:49:27,760
whitney Web says. I've been listening to the Whitney Webb

2952
02:49:27,799 --> 02:49:29,840
and ring here for years. I disagree with her on

2953
02:49:30,040 --> 02:49:32,719
some of these points. She has some good points, and

2954
02:49:32,879 --> 02:49:37,200
somebody sent me some like super bitcoin architect dude, and

2955
02:49:37,280 --> 02:49:39,600
I put it in the community tab. He spent a

2956
02:49:40,000 --> 02:49:44,079
doing a one hour critique of the pros and cons

2957
02:49:44,120 --> 02:49:46,360
of whitney Web's take right here, and I thought it

2958
02:49:46,440 --> 02:49:49,879
was a very good balanced reply. His name is Bitcoin Mechanic.

2959
02:49:50,479 --> 02:49:52,479
This dude knows more than I do about the technical

2960
02:49:52,639 --> 02:49:55,000
side of this. Okay, I don't know all the technics.

2961
02:49:55,719 --> 02:50:00,040
I engage you with it from an investment standpoint. And

2962
02:50:00,799 --> 02:50:03,559
I like Catherine Austin Fitz. We've done many interviews. I

2963
02:50:03,680 --> 02:50:06,559
respect her, but I totally disagree with her on bitcoin,

2964
02:50:07,079 --> 02:50:11,239
and so Bitcoin University did a response critique of her

2965
02:50:11,920 --> 02:50:16,479
right here. So I think that they are wrong on

2966
02:50:16,600 --> 02:50:20,399
these points. And I've heard these same points, by the way,

2967
02:50:22,280 --> 02:50:27,120
since twenty seventeen when I started, and who was right?

2968
02:50:29,079 --> 02:50:32,079
Who was right? Since twenty seventeen? What bitcoin was two thousand,

2969
02:50:32,120 --> 02:50:35,200
eight hundred dollars or whatever it was back then? Oh

2970
02:50:35,639 --> 02:50:39,399
we were. It's one hundred and five thousand dollars right now,

2971
02:50:40,920 --> 02:50:44,239
three thousand dollars to one hundred and five thousand dollars

2972
02:50:45,079 --> 02:50:50,719
right now. The market is so all you libertarians, the

2973
02:50:50,879 --> 02:50:55,319
market has decided it is not unrealistic to say that

2974
02:50:55,360 --> 02:50:58,639
bitcoin would be one million dollars. It would be ten

2975
02:50:58,799 --> 02:51:02,239
times all the gold. No, do you understand that, dude?

2976
02:51:02,239 --> 02:51:04,040
You have no idea what you're talking about. The market

2977
02:51:04,120 --> 02:51:08,680
cap of gold will be surpassed by bitcoin. Bitcoin already

2978
02:51:08,719 --> 02:51:13,520
flipped silver a cool nick, and when bitcoin flips gold

2979
02:51:14,280 --> 02:51:17,120
it will be what five hundred six hundred seve hundred thousand.

2980
02:51:19,079 --> 02:51:24,239
That's just flipping gold. And the reason that the government

2981
02:51:24,280 --> 02:51:26,840
buying one million will send it to a million a

2982
02:51:26,959 --> 02:51:32,000
coin is because the other nation states will also then

2983
02:51:32,120 --> 02:51:34,159
try to front run and buy it as well. You see,

2984
02:51:34,600 --> 02:51:39,200
don't you understand that it's already it's not just the

2985
02:51:39,440 --> 02:51:42,000
US government, the Feds, it's the NATE, that's the States.

2986
02:51:42,879 --> 02:51:48,479
This is all over Twitter today. Nobody saw the news today, Guys.

2987
02:51:48,600 --> 02:51:50,600
I just don't. I just don't get it. Like I

2988
02:51:50,959 --> 02:51:53,200
was telling Jamie this yesterday, I'm like, how come people

2989
02:51:53,239 --> 02:51:56,799
don't understand this. I don't understand why they can't grasp

2990
02:51:57,760 --> 02:52:01,520
what is going on with this? Let me show you

2991
02:52:05,520 --> 02:52:13,319
how many states is it? Pennsylvania, Illinois, Texas are the

2992
02:52:13,399 --> 02:52:22,120
ones I saw today. Now the EU is idiotic because

2993
02:52:22,120 --> 02:52:24,040
they're the ones still pushing that there will never be

2994
02:52:24,200 --> 02:52:27,079
anything like that, so that they're sealing their own doom.

2995
02:52:31,000 --> 02:52:33,399
I mean, I was at the Bitcoin conference when Trump said.

2996
02:52:33,239 --> 02:52:43,920
Speaker 4: This was by hard never sell your bitcoin. That's right,

2997
02:52:44,079 --> 02:52:44,319
isn't that?

2998
02:52:44,479 --> 02:52:44,639
Speaker 48: Huh?

2999
02:52:44,920 --> 02:52:47,200
Speaker 12: Has Trump made good on the rest of these promises.

3000
02:52:47,440 --> 02:52:48,639
Speaker 4: How did I figure that way?

3001
02:52:49,120 --> 02:52:49,479
Speaker 9: So far?

3002
02:52:50,680 --> 02:52:54,719
Speaker 45: Midcoin, and so as the final part of my plan today,

3003
02:52:54,799 --> 02:52:57,719
I am announcing that if I am elected, it will

3004
02:52:57,840 --> 02:53:02,840
be the policy of my administration United States of America

3005
02:53:03,399 --> 02:53:06,479
to keep one hundred percent of all the bitcoin the

3006
02:53:06,639 --> 02:53:10,559
US government currently hauls or acquires into the future.

3007
02:53:10,639 --> 02:53:11,799
Speaker 4: We'll keep one hundred percent.

3008
02:53:11,920 --> 02:53:12,760
Speaker 1: I hope you do well.

3009
02:53:12,920 --> 02:53:18,079
Speaker 45: Please, This will serve and effect as the core of

3010
02:53:18,280 --> 02:53:21,719
the strategic national bitcoin.

3011
02:53:21,520 --> 02:53:24,319
Speaker 4: Stock pile stuck by as you know, as you.

3012
02:53:24,399 --> 02:53:29,200
Speaker 45: Know, as you know, most of the bitcoin currently held

3013
02:53:29,239 --> 02:53:30,600
by the United States government.

3014
02:53:31,200 --> 02:53:34,000
Speaker 12: So the Loomis Bill is a proposal to buy one

3015
02:53:34,079 --> 02:53:37,799
million coins over five years. It's not just one million

3016
02:53:37,840 --> 02:53:40,639
coins over five years. It's also that that will then

3017
02:53:40,719 --> 02:53:43,440
trigger all of the states who want to do this

3018
02:53:43,680 --> 02:53:48,000
already four or five now to buy for each state

3019
02:53:48,760 --> 02:53:51,680
the reserve and in the other nation states in the

3020
02:53:51,799 --> 02:53:55,520
world doing the same thing. That is why it pushes

3021
02:53:55,680 --> 02:53:58,520
up the price up to a million dollars because of

3022
02:53:58,600 --> 02:54:01,680
the supply shock. It's not just the purchase of the

3023
02:54:01,760 --> 02:54:05,040
one million by the US government, it's also the rest

3024
02:54:05,079 --> 02:54:07,559
of the nation states who don't want to be last.

3025
02:54:09,399 --> 02:54:13,680
It's called supplying demand that forces it up even higher

3026
02:54:14,079 --> 02:54:16,399
because there's not enough bitcoin to go around. You see,

3027
02:54:16,479 --> 02:54:22,760
that's the point supply shock. Why do I not like XRP. Well,

3028
02:54:22,840 --> 02:54:25,280
and let's listen to Jack Maler's.

3029
02:54:25,040 --> 02:54:28,040
Speaker 48: I have to start off with your viral post, your

3030
02:54:28,120 --> 02:54:31,319
impromptu press conference that you held, because we got some

3031
02:54:31,479 --> 02:54:34,239
news lately about this strategic reserve and it might not

3032
02:54:34,440 --> 02:54:36,959
just be bitcoins. So I just want to get your

3033
02:54:37,399 --> 02:54:39,280
take and your message for the community.

3034
02:54:40,639 --> 02:54:44,399
Speaker 19: Yeah, well, I think that a bitcoin strategic reserve. So firstly,

3035
02:54:44,520 --> 02:54:47,079
this concept, this idea that's been floated around and it

3036
02:54:47,200 --> 02:54:50,479
seems like we're making political progress. I think it would

3037
02:54:50,479 --> 02:54:55,600
be one of the most important economic announcements in US history.

3038
02:54:56,200 --> 02:54:59,680
Important meaning, I think, on par with something like Nixon's

3039
02:54:59,719 --> 02:55:03,079
and noun in nineteen seventy one. However, I think the

3040
02:55:03,159 --> 02:55:06,360
big difference that no one's talking about enough is it

3041
02:55:06,440 --> 02:55:09,559
would be one of the first positive economic announcements. So

3042
02:55:09,680 --> 02:55:13,959
important doesn't bias positive our negative. It means it's meaningful

3043
02:55:14,079 --> 02:55:16,920
to the public. But meaningful to the public has usually

3044
02:55:17,000 --> 02:55:21,239
been negative with economic US announcements. Nineteen thirty three was

3045
02:55:21,319 --> 02:55:23,600
a really big one, and it was the confiscation of

3046
02:55:23,680 --> 02:55:27,120
gold nineteen seventy one Nixon, the one I keep referencing

3047
02:55:27,280 --> 02:55:29,440
was a really big one. It was divorcing ourselves from

3048
02:55:29,479 --> 02:55:31,959
a gold standard, which the way I like to think

3049
02:55:32,000 --> 02:55:35,479
about it is divorcing our monetary policy from the immutable

3050
02:55:35,559 --> 02:55:38,959
laws of mother nature and the ability for the government

3051
02:55:39,079 --> 02:55:42,719
to print currency, debase currency, and inflate the goods and

3052
02:55:42,799 --> 02:55:43,399
services of.

3053
02:55:43,399 --> 02:55:44,280
Speaker 1: The people in the public.

3054
02:55:45,120 --> 02:55:47,799
Speaker 19: And then two thousand and eight was another very important

3055
02:55:47,959 --> 02:55:51,200
I would say, economic announcement and string of decisions from

3056
02:55:51,239 --> 02:55:55,159
financial authorities. But was it positive. No, it was that

3057
02:55:55,600 --> 02:55:59,280
financial authorities took the side of Wall Street banks in

3058
02:55:59,360 --> 02:56:04,360
private corporate rations and burdened the cost of the mistakes.

3059
02:56:04,239 --> 02:56:06,040
Speaker 1: On the people on the public.

3060
02:56:06,600 --> 02:56:10,319
Speaker 19: And I think a Bitcoin strategic preserve would be as

3061
02:56:10,479 --> 02:56:14,760
important and the caliber of those type of financial announcements

3062
02:56:14,920 --> 02:56:18,399
but positive, And I think there's a lot of insights

3063
02:56:18,520 --> 02:56:22,399
in that idea because this is an asset that's owned

3064
02:56:22,680 --> 02:56:25,239
only two three four percent of the bitcoin network is

3065
02:56:25,319 --> 02:56:30,000
owned by governments. Who owns it, Natalie, the people, the public.

3066
02:56:30,520 --> 02:56:33,840
This is an asset where it's monetary policy cannot be changed,

3067
02:56:34,680 --> 02:56:38,559
it cannot be forced to seizeiture, it's global, it's inclusive,

3068
02:56:38,760 --> 02:56:41,120
you could buy a pennyworth of bitcoin, So you're talking

3069
02:56:41,120 --> 02:56:43,319
about a financial instrument that can measure a grain of

3070
02:56:43,399 --> 02:56:47,159
sand or a professional sports team, right, And so this

3071
02:56:47,479 --> 02:56:49,120
is in the best interest of the people. It's in

3072
02:56:49,159 --> 02:56:51,639
the best interest of the public. And we're reaching an

3073
02:56:51,639 --> 02:56:53,920
inflection point where is the future of the money one

3074
02:56:53,959 --> 02:56:57,120
of the people or one of corporations. And so I

3075
02:56:57,200 --> 02:57:01,000
think it's as important but positive. And when I see

3076
02:57:01,200 --> 02:57:06,360
something like Ripple lobbying privately as a for profit corporation

3077
02:57:07,399 --> 02:57:13,559
to undermine this idea of a positive announcement that's in

3078
02:57:13,600 --> 02:57:16,120
the best interest of the people, in the best interesting.

3079
02:57:15,959 --> 02:57:19,000
Speaker 12: To understand, Ripple is a corporation and has a CEO.

3080
02:57:21,639 --> 02:57:25,520
It's lobbying Bitcoin is not a corporation, doesn't have a

3081
02:57:25,600 --> 02:57:26,840
central office, doesn't have CEO.

3082
02:57:27,239 --> 02:57:27,959
Speaker 1: Just to the public.

3083
02:57:28,280 --> 02:57:31,440
Speaker 19: That's changing the tide of the last century of American

3084
02:57:31,520 --> 02:57:35,440
economic announcements in monetary policy against the public, against the people,

3085
02:57:35,840 --> 02:57:39,399
and really changing the momentum in our direction as a

3086
02:57:39,479 --> 02:57:42,520
country and the leader of the free world. Ripple is

3087
02:57:42,680 --> 02:57:46,360
bringing us back to all of the awful announcements that

3088
02:57:46,440 --> 02:57:48,440
are against the best interest of the public that I

3089
02:57:48,719 --> 02:57:54,040
just walked us through right. This is private lobbying acting

3090
02:57:54,120 --> 02:57:57,159
as innovation, acting as a public good in service.

3091
02:57:57,479 --> 02:57:58,079
Speaker 1: But what is it?

3092
02:57:58,239 --> 02:58:01,200
Speaker 19: Ripple printed one hundred billion or p tokens gave it

3093
02:58:01,280 --> 02:58:03,639
to themselves and the distributions to people is by them

3094
02:58:03,760 --> 02:58:04,159
selling it.

3095
02:58:05,440 --> 02:58:10,200
Speaker 12: That's centralization, that's fiat. That is opposite of what bitcoin

3096
02:58:10,479 --> 02:58:13,920
is in principle. This was twenty one hours ago.

3097
02:58:14,200 --> 02:58:17,879
Speaker 49: Bitcoin reserve from the Trump administration. Everyone's waiting for that.

3098
02:58:18,079 --> 02:58:20,280
We got the study and the review, but the Bitcoin

3099
02:58:20,360 --> 02:58:22,840
Reserve Texas is going to move forward. It looks like

3100
02:58:23,000 --> 02:58:27,159
with legislation Dan Patrick announced today that's a big priority

3101
02:58:27,200 --> 02:58:29,360
for them in Texas. But how about the Trump administration.

3102
02:58:30,680 --> 02:58:32,280
Speaker 12: Well, there's also a bill in the center. I think

3103
02:58:33,440 --> 02:58:35,959
Cynthia Lummis from Wyoming has introduced a bill to create

3104
02:58:36,000 --> 02:58:39,000
a national Bitcoin reserve. The President Trump has asked us

3105
02:58:39,079 --> 02:58:40,959
to study that issue. So we're just not ready to

3106
02:58:41,000 --> 02:58:42,559
comment on it yet, but it's one of the things

3107
02:58:42,600 --> 02:58:47,639
our working group's going to look at. Polymarket has that

3108
02:58:47,920 --> 02:58:49,920
or has had that at seventy percent. I don't know

3109
02:58:49,959 --> 02:58:56,879
what it is today. Pass If that passes, then I'll

3110
02:58:56,920 --> 02:59:00,520
be retiring very soon in the next five years retiring.

3111
02:59:00,559 --> 02:59:02,239
I don't mean I won't be working. I mean that

3112
02:59:02,360 --> 02:59:05,120
I won't have to work. I'll be doing whatever I want,

3113
02:59:06,000 --> 02:59:09,840
which means I'll be doing what we do already, Denise

3114
02:59:09,920 --> 02:59:12,360
five dollars, excuse my boomeriness. Where do you buy bitcoin

3115
02:59:12,399 --> 02:59:15,120
and get started with a couple hundred? What I would

3116
02:59:15,159 --> 02:59:17,639
do is treat it as like I can't tell you

3117
02:59:17,760 --> 02:59:19,159
what to do. But if I only had a little bit,

3118
02:59:19,200 --> 02:59:20,959
I would just start stacking it and use it as

3119
02:59:21,040 --> 02:59:25,600
a savings account. That's what I would do. You can

3120
02:59:25,639 --> 02:59:29,520
get started with Swan bitcoin in the show description. Swan

3121
02:59:29,639 --> 02:59:37,799
is right here. Anyway. So we got Texas, We've got Illinois,

3122
02:59:37,840 --> 02:59:41,920
We've got Pennsylvania, We've got a couple other states. Oh

3123
02:59:42,000 --> 02:59:47,200
wait now South Dakota. Look at the states introducing the

3124
02:59:47,319 --> 02:59:58,399
idea of bitcoin strategic reserve. Don't you understand fifteen? I

3125
02:59:58,479 --> 02:59:59,719
didn't even know it was that many. I thought it

3126
02:59:59,760 --> 03:00:03,600
was like, so this is news to me. If this

3127
03:00:03,760 --> 03:00:09,440
is accurate, I assume it's pretty accurate. Max guys was

3128
03:00:09,479 --> 03:00:13,079
telling Russia that they should introduce a bitcoin strategic reserve

3129
03:00:13,600 --> 03:00:18,479
for Russia with no ship coins. That's funny. And yes,

3130
03:00:18,799 --> 03:00:20,639
as somebody in the chat pointed out, we got a

3131
03:00:20,680 --> 03:00:23,639
super chat this says about check. Yeah, I did see this.

3132
03:00:23,760 --> 03:00:25,920
The Czech Central Bank is now the first Bobby C

3133
03:00:26,040 --> 03:00:30,079
five dollars saying they want to buy billions of euros

3134
03:00:31,200 --> 03:00:36,760
for a check strategic reserve for bitcoin exactly, so very

3135
03:00:36,879 --> 03:00:44,479
very bolish. Everything is super bowlish Bitcoin wise, Travis Phillips

3136
03:00:44,520 --> 03:00:48,200
ten dollars. Is it worth pursing through the BTC ETF

3137
03:00:48,399 --> 03:00:50,680
or just simply holding it? Well, Remember, part of the

3138
03:00:50,719 --> 03:00:54,360
point at bitcoin is to remove third party trust, So

3139
03:00:54,840 --> 03:00:59,520
I wouldn't buy black Rock Fidelity or whatever ETFs. I

3140
03:00:59,600 --> 03:01:02,799
mean that's for boomers who know nothing but want exposure

3141
03:01:02,840 --> 03:01:06,920
to it. I believe in self custody because that means

3142
03:01:07,159 --> 03:01:10,760
getting rid of banks in middlemen. I support that idea,

3143
03:01:12,079 --> 03:01:15,799
so I'm not going to destroy you. There may be

3144
03:01:15,920 --> 03:01:20,799
some situations where Grandpa's, Grandma's boomers want exposure to bitcoin

3145
03:01:21,239 --> 03:01:22,959
and they don't have the time or the energy to

3146
03:01:23,079 --> 03:01:27,879
keep up with personal custody, you know, seed phrases, all

3147
03:01:27,920 --> 03:01:30,680
the difficulties that can come with this. I mean, do

3148
03:01:30,840 --> 03:01:34,719
boomers are still clicking on, like, you know, email links

3149
03:01:34,920 --> 03:01:37,799
with dancing babies at scam them? So they're probably not

3150
03:01:37,879 --> 03:01:41,479
going to be able to manage you know, seed phrases.

3151
03:01:41,840 --> 03:01:44,120
Let's be honest here, right. I mean it's a joke,

3152
03:01:44,200 --> 03:01:47,600
but not really. So there may be some cases where

3153
03:01:47,639 --> 03:01:52,559
people can get exposure that's not direct, and maybe it's

3154
03:01:52,719 --> 03:01:55,920
works for them Grandma's or something. I don't know. Ideally

3155
03:01:56,040 --> 03:01:59,079
it should be like younger people helping the older people

3156
03:01:59,200 --> 03:02:01,520
or something, you know what I mean. Like that's probably

3157
03:02:01,559 --> 03:02:04,920
better than trust it. Would you trust Larry Fink and

3158
03:02:06,159 --> 03:02:09,959
Boomer Stonkman too, do what they're saying. I don't. I wouldn't.

3159
03:02:10,040 --> 03:02:12,159
That's the whole point at bitcoin is to remove this

3160
03:02:12,440 --> 03:02:15,319
trust of all these other people in these failed institutions

3161
03:02:15,360 --> 03:02:20,239
and scammers everywhere. So there may be some cases where

3162
03:02:20,280 --> 03:02:24,239
pragmatically you could justify the ETF. It's very bullish for

3163
03:02:24,360 --> 03:02:28,840
bitcoin obviously when it passed last January. But no, I

3164
03:02:28,879 --> 03:02:31,760
think you're much better off in the long run just

3165
03:02:31,879 --> 03:02:36,239
learning how to self custody, getting you know, blockstream, Jade,

3166
03:02:36,360 --> 03:02:42,559
or getting a Ledger or whatever wallet you research and

3167
03:02:43,040 --> 03:02:49,680
decide you want. Denise, No, we already did, Denise. Let

3168
03:02:49,760 --> 03:02:51,360
me check make sure I get super chests over here?

3169
03:02:54,959 --> 03:02:55,159
Speaker 29: Yes?

3170
03:02:55,719 --> 03:02:57,840
Speaker 12: Do we have any more callers? What's going on over here?

3171
03:02:58,799 --> 03:03:03,399
Read it or let's try this. Oh no, go here

3172
03:03:03,440 --> 03:03:07,680
we go yep.

3173
03:03:12,200 --> 03:03:17,079
Speaker 50: Hey yeah, So I am a letter day say, a Mormon, right,

3174
03:03:17,799 --> 03:03:18,879
and I've had a couple of.

3175
03:03:18,920 --> 03:03:22,200
Speaker 9: Questions for you. Some of them that I would be

3176
03:03:22,239 --> 03:03:22,639
interesting to.

3177
03:03:22,600 --> 03:03:25,680
Speaker 50: Think is if your whole concept is built off of

3178
03:03:26,479 --> 03:03:29,799
creation out of nothing, right, which we belive in chreation.

3179
03:03:29,799 --> 03:03:31,319
Speaker 9: Makes materia, that's sort of stuff.

3180
03:03:32,719 --> 03:03:36,159
Speaker 1: So you have creation of nothing. God basically just creates.

3181
03:03:37,079 --> 03:03:39,600
Would you say that God creates whatever he wants, however

3182
03:03:39,719 --> 03:03:40,159
he wants?

3183
03:03:41,159 --> 03:03:44,159
Speaker 12: Is that would be your definition of Well, so if

3184
03:03:44,280 --> 03:03:46,479
eld On, so just from the outset, like, if you

3185
03:03:46,600 --> 03:03:51,399
believe in creation out of material, you're already a polytheist

3186
03:03:51,479 --> 03:03:54,600
because you have another eternal thing alongside God. So how

3187
03:03:54,639 --> 03:03:56,360
many eternal, uncreateds do you have?

3188
03:03:59,559 --> 03:04:04,000
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, if you want to define something eternal

3189
03:04:04,079 --> 03:04:05,760
as making.

3190
03:04:05,639 --> 03:04:09,040
Speaker 12: Apologism, well, if God didn't create it, is it eternal?

3191
03:04:10,680 --> 03:04:13,479
Speaker 1: Well yeah, well, I mean that's it's literally in our.

3192
03:04:15,479 --> 03:04:17,200
Speaker 12: Right that there is you mean you mean, although so

3193
03:04:17,639 --> 03:04:19,479
you're saying you're a script you don't Book of Mormon.

3194
03:04:21,120 --> 03:04:23,360
Speaker 1: That's on the Book of Morts, in the doctrine companies, right, So.

3195
03:04:25,000 --> 03:04:26,479
Speaker 9: That's where you can definement right.

3196
03:04:26,559 --> 03:04:29,559
Speaker 3: So three, it says element is eternal.

3197
03:04:29,799 --> 03:04:32,600
Speaker 1: It says the spirited man was in the beginning with God.

3198
03:04:32,840 --> 03:04:35,799
Speaker 12: Right, So you're right. So right, So that's your position.

3199
03:04:35,920 --> 03:04:37,879
And I'm asking you, how are you not a polytheist

3200
03:04:37,920 --> 03:04:40,719
If there's two uncreated eternals.

3201
03:04:43,159 --> 03:04:46,840
Speaker 50: Well, I mean we wouldn't define that as pologism because

3202
03:04:47,000 --> 03:04:48,959
I mean you're coming from but there has to be

3203
03:04:49,200 --> 03:04:53,719
this one simple thing that and that is God writing

3204
03:04:53,840 --> 03:04:56,399
that simple thing is eternal, right, that's how you define it,

3205
03:04:56,760 --> 03:04:59,440
and we will just define God is so.

3206
03:04:59,559 --> 03:05:03,360
Speaker 12: You know, so redefine the words. So just redefine the

3207
03:05:03,399 --> 03:05:05,840
words to make right. So redefine the words to make

3208
03:05:05,920 --> 03:05:10,079
the position work. So there's an eternal, uncreated thing alongside God.

3209
03:05:10,559 --> 03:05:13,040
But you don't believe in two eternal principles.

3210
03:05:15,360 --> 03:05:20,840
Speaker 3: So eternal principles and it being God who rights, so

3211
03:05:20,920 --> 03:05:21,440
God has.

3212
03:05:21,399 --> 03:05:23,440
Speaker 12: I don't care whether you call it God because it's

3213
03:05:23,440 --> 03:05:27,879
still polytheism. If there's two uncreated eternal principles, that's two

3214
03:05:28,079 --> 03:05:29,479
polytheism to gods.

3215
03:05:31,120 --> 03:05:34,079
Speaker 1: Well, but it's okay, So I mean it's not God.

3216
03:05:35,159 --> 03:05:37,719
Speaker 12: Well you're just calling it not God, but you're but

3217
03:05:37,840 --> 03:05:40,840
it has the attributes of God eternal and uncreated, but

3218
03:05:40,920 --> 03:05:43,600
it's not God, and there's two of them, hence polytheism.

3219
03:05:45,159 --> 03:05:48,799
Speaker 50: So God, I guess as we would, the final is

3220
03:05:49,040 --> 03:05:51,600
eternally created and has all.

3221
03:05:51,520 --> 03:05:55,399
Speaker 1: Powers bring about his desire. Right, the element doesn't have

3222
03:05:55,559 --> 03:05:56,360
power to do anything.

3223
03:05:56,559 --> 03:05:58,879
Speaker 12: Well, he's not all powerful if there's he's not all

3224
03:05:58,920 --> 03:06:02,399
powerful if there's another, their uncreated eternal thing next to him.

3225
03:06:05,319 --> 03:06:07,399
So that's not all. So he's not all powerful because

3226
03:06:07,399 --> 03:06:15,120
there's another eternal principle. You're a dualist, so I mean sure,

3227
03:06:15,319 --> 03:06:17,200
So now you're so you admit that it is dualism.

3228
03:06:17,319 --> 03:06:21,399
Speaker 1: So sure, well, I mean I guess I probably wouldn't

3229
03:06:21,440 --> 03:06:25,440
have what I have memorized.

3230
03:06:25,719 --> 03:06:27,879
Speaker 12: Well, you just said sure. I mean so there's there's

3231
03:06:27,959 --> 03:06:35,360
two eternal, uncreated principles, God and Premiam material. Sure, so

3232
03:06:35,479 --> 03:06:37,840
you're a dualist, and so you're a dualist and then

3233
03:06:37,879 --> 03:06:44,520
neuropolotheist by admission. That's what dualism is defined as. So

3234
03:06:44,680 --> 03:06:50,000
I mean, right, I mean two that's Polly?

3235
03:06:50,239 --> 03:06:50,559
Speaker 9: Is two?

3236
03:06:50,719 --> 03:06:54,280
Speaker 12: At least is that more than one? Polly? Two eternal

3237
03:06:54,360 --> 03:06:58,520
uncreated principles? You said, okay, dualism, Sure, that's two, that's Polly.

3238
03:07:01,159 --> 03:07:05,840
Speaker 1: So the thing is that you're using in a way

3239
03:07:05,920 --> 03:07:06,399
that it's like.

3240
03:07:06,559 --> 03:07:12,920
Speaker 12: Not right now, that's colloquially and definitionally an academic theology.

3241
03:07:13,000 --> 03:07:15,399
That's literally what it means. More than one is poly

3242
03:07:15,680 --> 03:07:19,040
that's two. So no, it's not true. It's just total bullshit.

3243
03:07:19,200 --> 03:07:20,200
Speaker 1: That's fine.

3244
03:07:20,440 --> 03:07:22,239
Speaker 12: I have a question for you, though, well, I have

3245
03:07:22,319 --> 03:07:24,760
a question for you before you ask my question. My

3246
03:07:24,920 --> 03:07:28,000
question for you is why do all of the texts

3247
03:07:28,159 --> 03:07:33,920
prior to the Joseph Smith translation of Genesis, whether Protestant, Orthodox, Catholic,

3248
03:07:34,600 --> 03:07:38,000
none of them contained the additional eleven or twelve verses

3249
03:07:38,000 --> 03:07:41,639
of Genesis that Joseph Smith added to predict himself.

3250
03:07:44,360 --> 03:07:49,079
Speaker 1: I think there's this right because what adding that?

3251
03:07:49,840 --> 03:07:49,959
Speaker 42: Right?

3252
03:07:51,920 --> 03:07:53,840
Speaker 12: Yes, he is adding it there. What are you talking about?

3253
03:07:54,239 --> 03:07:54,760
What do you mean?

3254
03:07:56,280 --> 03:07:58,319
Speaker 8: So they this is like a.

3255
03:08:00,280 --> 03:08:00,760
Speaker 9: Like the.

3256
03:08:02,280 --> 03:08:02,559
Speaker 29: Bible?

3257
03:08:03,040 --> 03:08:11,159
Speaker 12: Yeah he did, so you're Smith right, So your answer

3258
03:08:11,239 --> 03:08:15,639
is to just yap around it. You're cutting out. We

3259
03:08:15,719 --> 03:08:16,239
don't hear you.

3260
03:08:18,760 --> 03:08:21,479
Speaker 1: Hear uh? Oh?

3261
03:08:21,559 --> 03:08:21,719
Speaker 9: Right?

3262
03:08:21,799 --> 03:08:23,959
Speaker 3: So I'm playing where this comes from because if you.

3263
03:08:25,879 --> 03:08:29,200
Speaker 1: Look into the say you know, scripture, you understand this.

3264
03:08:30,239 --> 03:08:32,959
Speaker 12: So I'm looking into the scripture. Don't come on, man,

3265
03:08:33,000 --> 03:08:34,920
don't give me this crap about if you actually look

3266
03:08:34,959 --> 03:08:36,680
into it, you'll see where it's coming from. I've got

3267
03:08:36,760 --> 03:08:44,200
it pulled off, I've got it pulled up. Yes, yeah,

3268
03:08:44,239 --> 03:08:46,079
But how am I going to follow the book?

3269
03:08:46,200 --> 03:08:46,319
Speaker 1: Bro?

3270
03:08:46,959 --> 03:08:49,159
Speaker 12: You're missing the point. Why would I follow the Book

3271
03:08:49,200 --> 03:08:57,680
of Mormon? No, you're missing what the Book of Mormon is. Bullshit.

3272
03:08:57,920 --> 03:09:00,079
I'm not going to believe that because this is in

3273
03:09:00,120 --> 03:09:02,040
the Book of Mormon it should be added to the

3274
03:09:02,159 --> 03:09:07,200
later chapters of Genesis, when the entire revelation given to Jews, Christians,

3275
03:09:07,319 --> 03:09:12,159
Orthodox Protestants for every century prior to this, con Man

3276
03:09:12,639 --> 03:09:15,719
does not have added versus predicting himself.

3277
03:09:19,440 --> 03:09:23,639
Speaker 1: Again, that's the thing, right, that's just like people say,

3278
03:09:24,200 --> 03:09:24,360
you know.

3279
03:09:27,719 --> 03:09:29,479
Speaker 12: It is not the same thing as No, it's not.

3280
03:09:29,639 --> 03:09:31,840
It's not the same thing as the atheist objection. It

3281
03:09:31,959 --> 03:09:38,079
is absolutely not the same as the atheist objection. Because

3282
03:09:38,120 --> 03:09:39,959
you're just gonna yap. You're not going to give an answer.

3283
03:09:40,319 --> 03:09:43,239
How is appealing to You're appealing to the other fake thing.

3284
03:09:44,799 --> 03:09:47,200
You're appealing to the other fake thing to prove this.

3285
03:09:50,680 --> 03:09:52,600
It is not the same as the No, it's this

3286
03:09:52,799 --> 03:09:55,559
total false analogy. No, it is not the same. It

3287
03:09:55,719 --> 03:09:59,000
is not the same the same. So that's a fallacy

3288
03:09:59,200 --> 03:10:01,520
to say that if if an atheist makes an argument

3289
03:10:01,520 --> 03:10:04,559
about textual corruption, that that's the same as the argument

3290
03:10:04,600 --> 03:10:07,239
that I'm making. I am not that. I'm not making

3291
03:10:07,319 --> 03:10:08,159
that argument.

3292
03:10:09,479 --> 03:10:15,000
Speaker 3: Claim your claim making so okay, so.

3293
03:10:15,520 --> 03:10:22,000
Speaker 12: People, therefore, that is not the argument being made here.

3294
03:10:22,360 --> 03:10:27,559
That is a totally dominalogy every text that is all right,

3295
03:10:27,639 --> 03:10:32,239
we're done, You're done. This is so stupid. I don't

3296
03:10:32,319 --> 03:10:35,959
understand how anybody can believe. This is completely stupid nonsense.

3297
03:10:36,840 --> 03:10:39,200
This is not the same as when an atheist says

3298
03:10:39,840 --> 03:10:44,799
that texts are corrupted or people. The New Testament writers

3299
03:10:44,840 --> 03:10:47,680
wrote themselves, wrote Jesus into the New Testament, and they

3300
03:10:47,760 --> 03:10:50,840
wrote and created a prop that is not the same thing.

3301
03:10:51,079 --> 03:10:55,959
The difference is the New Testament cites countless times in

3302
03:10:56,120 --> 03:11:00,520
the Old Testament where Jesus fulfills those prophecies. This is

3303
03:11:00,680 --> 03:11:05,639
totally different where you have absolutely no textual evidence at

3304
03:11:05,680 --> 03:11:10,440
all for additional verses to the last chapter of Genesis

3305
03:11:11,520 --> 03:11:15,159
that predict Joseph Smith. So it is totally different, no

3306
03:11:15,559 --> 03:11:18,280
similarity at all to what the New Testament writers do.

3307
03:11:18,719 --> 03:11:22,360
Remember when we had another Mormon that debated the same thing,

3308
03:11:22,440 --> 03:11:25,479
and he did the exact same move. He said, oh, well,

3309
03:11:25,559 --> 03:11:29,280
the New Testament, the Apostles, they just craft these verses

3310
03:11:29,399 --> 03:11:33,680
to make Jesus be the fulfillment. No, they don't, total nonsense.

3311
03:11:34,000 --> 03:11:36,799
Jesus isn't just the fulfillment. He's the one that gave

3312
03:11:36,879 --> 03:11:40,559
the Old Testament prophecies. This is totally different. Where you

3313
03:11:40,680 --> 03:11:44,319
have absolutely no textual proof or evidence prior to Joseph

3314
03:11:44,360 --> 03:11:49,000
Smith of any of these extra verses in Genesis predicting him.

3315
03:11:49,600 --> 03:11:52,959
It's an obvious defeater for the entire religion improves hes

3316
03:11:52,959 --> 03:11:56,239
a con man. So their only answer is to say, well,

3317
03:11:56,360 --> 03:11:58,520
it's kind of like what the Apostles did where they

3318
03:11:58,639 --> 03:12:01,760
crafted Old Testament verse to make it about Jesus. No,

3319
03:12:01,959 --> 03:12:05,520
they're not con men like Joseph Smith. They're actually proving

3320
03:12:05,879 --> 03:12:09,680
that Jesus fulfills the prophecies. This is so obviously a

3321
03:12:09,799 --> 03:12:14,920
fraudulent addition to Genesis to predict Joseph Smith. Why at

3322
03:12:14,959 --> 03:12:17,239
the end of the Book of Genesis about the death

3323
03:12:17,280 --> 03:12:22,840
of Joseph would there be suddenly a prediction of Joseph

3324
03:12:22,959 --> 03:12:25,840
Smith thousands of years in the future. I mean, it's

3325
03:12:25,879 --> 03:12:27,959
just so absurd. On the face of it, it's so dumb,

3326
03:12:28,680 --> 03:12:30,920
and it's obvious that he's stuck it in here because

3327
03:12:30,959 --> 03:12:33,879
it was talking about Joseph, and he's duping all of

3328
03:12:33,959 --> 03:12:37,479
these low IQ ignorant prairie muffins into thinking that it's

3329
03:12:37,600 --> 03:12:40,440
Joseph Smith when it's talking about Joseph the Patriarch. It's

3330
03:12:40,479 --> 03:12:46,760
so obvious. I mean, it's like comedy level stuff. And

3331
03:12:46,879 --> 03:12:51,040
this is what we're dealing with. Liam five bucks. Did

3332
03:12:51,079 --> 03:12:53,000
you say that the IMF got El Salvador to back

3333
03:12:53,079 --> 03:12:55,479
off of bitcoin? Back off?

3334
03:12:55,559 --> 03:12:55,879
Speaker 11: I don't know.

3335
03:12:56,040 --> 03:12:57,680
Speaker 12: I have not seen that. What does that mean? Back

3336
03:12:57,719 --> 03:13:02,440
off of it? Its success will be down to what

3337
03:13:02,559 --> 03:13:07,159
the international money power wants, how the international money power

3338
03:13:07,200 --> 03:13:11,520
cannot stop what is already out there. Bearish looks like

3339
03:13:11,559 --> 03:13:12,840
they're pushing to get liquidity.

3340
03:13:13,840 --> 03:13:14,799
Speaker 9: Who who is?

3341
03:13:14,840 --> 03:13:18,520
Speaker 12: I don't know what you're talking about. The government is

3342
03:13:18,760 --> 03:13:23,000
pushing bitcoin to get liquidity to do what again, Everybody

3343
03:13:23,040 --> 03:13:25,079
that argues this kind of stuff is missing the whole

3344
03:13:25,200 --> 03:13:34,239
point and idea behind bitcoin. I don't see anybody else.

3345
03:13:34,280 --> 03:13:38,000
Looks like we've had we had a nice little yappy

3346
03:13:38,399 --> 03:13:41,040
Mormon talking about how oh well, he's like, you're not

3347
03:13:41,159 --> 03:13:45,520
using the real definition of polytheism to eternal uncreative principles.

3348
03:13:46,520 --> 03:13:54,520
Literally Aristotle's definition of a diad, that's two, that's poly theism. Well,

3349
03:13:54,559 --> 03:13:58,360
but the other thing's not God. It's an uncreated eternal

3350
03:13:58,559 --> 03:14:02,559
us next to God. That's called dualism. And if there's

3351
03:14:02,600 --> 03:14:06,319
two eternal principles, that's polytheism. Oh well, it's not though,

3352
03:14:06,319 --> 03:14:08,360
because I don't call the other thing God. That's just

3353
03:14:08,559 --> 03:14:18,559
changing words, dummy, ash, Hello, can.

3354
03:14:18,479 --> 03:14:18,680
Speaker 3: You hear me?

3355
03:14:18,879 --> 03:14:19,040
Speaker 9: Yep?

3356
03:14:21,639 --> 03:14:21,959
Speaker 42: All right.

3357
03:14:22,799 --> 03:14:25,600
Speaker 1: I was talking with a friend that I went to

3358
03:14:25,719 --> 03:14:32,239
college with about my conversion to go into Eastern Orthodoxy,

3359
03:14:33,360 --> 03:14:37,360
and I basically got him to admit that the canon

3360
03:14:37,440 --> 03:14:40,920
that he has was given to him by fallible means.

3361
03:14:41,200 --> 03:14:44,360
Speaker 51: Like he would say the church was fallible, but that's

3362
03:14:44,399 --> 03:14:47,559
where he he would go to them and go, yeah,

3363
03:14:47,600 --> 03:14:49,200
the church is the one that gave him a cannon.

3364
03:14:49,280 --> 03:14:51,079
The church is the one who wo attests Christ to me,

3365
03:14:51,680 --> 03:14:54,440
even though it is fallible. And then he said, but

3366
03:14:55,079 --> 03:14:58,360
God's providence is infallible and doing that thing, and so

3367
03:14:58,520 --> 03:15:01,280
the providence art is the infallible part.

3368
03:15:01,360 --> 03:15:02,200
Speaker 1: And so that's kind of I.

3369
03:15:02,159 --> 03:15:06,239
Speaker 51: Guess his weird way of getting to an infallible message

3370
03:15:06,639 --> 03:15:09,479
through I guess fallible means.

3371
03:15:09,520 --> 03:15:11,920
Speaker 1: I mean, he he did say that.

3372
03:15:14,440 --> 03:15:16,639
Speaker 12: That's just that's just a bunch of talking around the

3373
03:15:16,799 --> 03:15:17,239
very thing.

3374
03:15:17,399 --> 03:15:18,120
Speaker 1: That's sure.

3375
03:15:18,200 --> 03:15:21,879
Speaker 12: I mean, he's admitting that the it's the men that

3376
03:15:21,959 --> 03:15:26,159
made the decision. Yeah, so you can say, well, bet

3377
03:15:26,200 --> 03:15:29,159
it was providence and God did it. Okay, but God

3378
03:15:29,239 --> 03:15:32,479
providentially directed the men to make the decision. So was

3379
03:15:32,520 --> 03:15:35,840
the decision fallible and infallible? He's just he's just deflecting

3380
03:15:35,879 --> 03:15:38,920
and saying, well, the providence was infallible. Well, Providence is

3381
03:15:39,000 --> 03:15:42,719
infallible and everything. That's what stupid objective. Everything happens infallibly

3382
03:15:42,760 --> 03:15:47,000
according to what divine Providence sees and forenos. So that's

3383
03:15:47,040 --> 03:15:50,079
begging because that means everything that is infallibly happening. That's stupid.

3384
03:15:51,200 --> 03:15:51,399
Speaker 9: Yeah.

3385
03:15:51,479 --> 03:15:53,559
Speaker 51: I thought a good critique to that was that, like, oh,

3386
03:15:53,600 --> 03:15:57,360
well then that's kind of like a subjective, almost subjective

3387
03:15:57,479 --> 03:16:01,159
argument because he but even him as a he would say, oh,

3388
03:16:01,319 --> 03:16:03,600
my sixty six books are providentially and fall will be

3389
03:16:03,639 --> 03:16:06,000
given to me. I'm like, well, how like the Orthodox

3390
03:16:06,079 --> 03:16:07,040
can claim that stor Well.

3391
03:16:07,000 --> 03:16:09,639
Speaker 12: So let's see if he admits that the decision back

3392
03:16:09,719 --> 03:16:12,680
then was quote infallible, it's not his Protestant canon.

3393
03:16:13,159 --> 03:16:14,799
Speaker 51: Well that's why. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Yeah, and

3394
03:16:15,120 --> 03:16:17,840
so I thought that a good The best critique was like, well,

3395
03:16:18,040 --> 03:16:21,120
you realize that that's what the East claims and their

3396
03:16:21,159 --> 03:16:22,440
canon is different than yours.

3397
03:16:22,879 --> 03:16:24,399
Speaker 1: So what now, what do you have to stand on?

3398
03:16:24,600 --> 03:16:24,760
Speaker 9: Yeah?

3399
03:16:24,840 --> 03:16:28,200
Speaker 12: The Church universally accepts the Dudero canon for the first

3400
03:16:28,719 --> 03:16:32,840
several centuries and universally proclaims it at Trello and the

3401
03:16:32,879 --> 03:16:37,520
Seventh Ecumentical Council. So he's just being a judized Protestant

3402
03:16:37,600 --> 03:16:39,200
like they all are and saying that now I'm going

3403
03:16:39,280 --> 03:16:40,479
to follow what the Jews said.

3404
03:16:42,319 --> 03:16:43,920
Speaker 1: Sure, and you had a ton for war more question,

3405
03:16:44,079 --> 03:16:46,959
uh huh so he uh.

3406
03:16:47,000 --> 03:16:49,280
Speaker 51: Another critique that he gave was that he does not

3407
03:16:49,479 --> 03:16:54,200
see the system of like what the Orthodox believe when

3408
03:16:54,200 --> 03:16:58,520
it comes to the uh collecting of the canonical text.

3409
03:16:58,639 --> 03:17:01,440
Speaker 1: He does not see that in the New Testament.

3410
03:17:01,520 --> 03:17:04,479
Speaker 51: He was saying that Jesus when he refers to the

3411
03:17:04,520 --> 03:17:10,520
Old Testament books that they were that Jesus assumes that

3412
03:17:10,639 --> 03:17:12,719
they're infallible and that they are.

3413
03:17:14,399 --> 03:17:17,360
Speaker 1: And they are without error. And he said that's not

3414
03:17:17,520 --> 03:17:19,840
a showing of the system of Eastern Orthodoxy.

3415
03:17:21,200 --> 03:17:23,920
Speaker 12: I don't know, I mean the Ecumenical councils are patterned

3416
03:17:23,959 --> 03:17:26,959
on what happens in Acts fifteen, the Jerusalem Council. So

3417
03:17:27,120 --> 03:17:29,719
if he wants to have Bible examples of how the

3418
03:17:29,840 --> 03:17:33,680
church should function, Acts fifteen is synodal church government. And

3419
03:17:33,760 --> 03:17:36,440
when they talk about the presence of the Holy Spirit there,

3420
03:17:37,000 --> 03:17:42,399
that's the spirit amongst the synod or collegiality. So I

3421
03:17:42,440 --> 03:17:46,120
don't understand what. So, Jesus cites the scriptures. Every ecumenical

3422
03:17:46,159 --> 03:17:50,079
council cites the scriptures, So how does that prove that

3423
03:17:50,200 --> 03:17:52,799
there's no oral tradition or that the church doesn't have

3424
03:17:52,879 --> 03:17:55,360
normative authority. So I don't understand what that argument is

3425
03:17:55,399 --> 03:17:58,399
supposed to prove. That Jesus cites the scriptures, every church father,

3426
03:17:58,479 --> 03:18:01,159
every council cites the scriptures. They're missing the point that

3427
03:18:01,280 --> 03:18:03,959
it's not a question of citing the scriptures or whether

3428
03:18:04,000 --> 03:18:07,360
the scriptures have authority. The Protestants are not understanding that

3429
03:18:07,959 --> 03:18:10,319
you can't get in a time machine and go back

3430
03:18:10,399 --> 03:18:14,040
to getting Paul's autographa, the books that you have in

3431
03:18:14,120 --> 03:18:22,280
your hand, this collection here, you're assuming that the church preserved, maintained, copied,

3432
03:18:22,440 --> 03:18:25,959
and transmitted this over centuries, and then it really is

3433
03:18:26,040 --> 03:18:27,840
the things that Paul wrote, and it really is the

3434
03:18:27,920 --> 03:18:31,440
things that Matthew the Disciple wrote. You're trusting.

3435
03:18:31,639 --> 03:18:35,120
Speaker 13: It's not just a matter of oh, orthodox think that

3436
03:18:35,159 --> 03:18:37,280
you got to have an authority say that this is

3437
03:18:37,319 --> 03:18:39,520
the infallible collection of the Bible, and if you don't

3438
03:18:39,520 --> 03:18:41,799
have an authority, then it's up to everybody's opinion.

3439
03:18:42,120 --> 03:18:45,079
Speaker 12: No, No, it's more than that. It's also the very

3440
03:18:45,200 --> 03:18:48,680
text themselves were preserved by a community of people. That

3441
03:18:48,840 --> 03:18:51,959
tells you who the authors were. You see, it's much

3442
03:18:52,000 --> 03:18:54,319
stronger than just some authority claim.

3443
03:18:57,319 --> 03:18:59,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agreed, agreed, And the people.

3444
03:18:59,280 --> 03:19:02,040
Speaker 12: That preserved it are not Protestants, they're not Baptists, they're

3445
03:19:02,040 --> 03:19:05,000
not Calvinists, they're not Episcopalians, they're Orthodox.

3446
03:19:07,360 --> 03:19:09,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, agreeance with all that. And like I said, yeah,

3447
03:19:09,719 --> 03:19:11,600
I thought. I just thought. The biggest critiques of that

3448
03:19:11,799 --> 03:19:13,520
is that he still has to answer.

3449
03:19:13,879 --> 03:19:16,239
Speaker 51: And I got him to admit that all of the

3450
03:19:16,280 --> 03:19:19,639
stuff that he believes it affirms, first of all, come

3451
03:19:19,680 --> 03:19:22,000
from to the Church, So he affirms at least some

3452
03:19:22,159 --> 03:19:24,719
type of authority, but he won't make the jump to

3453
03:19:24,760 --> 03:19:27,000
call it an infallible or normative authority.

3454
03:19:30,760 --> 03:19:33,040
Speaker 1: And I basically just said, that's basically just picking and choosing.

3455
03:19:33,360 --> 03:19:35,399
I mean that that's just picking and choosing.

3456
03:19:37,719 --> 03:19:40,879
Speaker 12: I mean, yeah, a lot of times. Something he's also confusing,

3457
03:19:41,280 --> 03:19:43,600
you know, normati authority, meaning that there's people who have

3458
03:19:43,719 --> 03:19:50,040
the ability to bind people's consciences. That's different than existential certitude.

3459
03:19:51,120 --> 03:19:53,719
Speaker 51: Yeah, And I think he kind of missed that part too,

3460
03:19:53,840 --> 03:19:56,600
because he said, he told me that I, as an

3461
03:19:56,879 --> 03:19:58,319
orthodox believer, wouldn't have.

3462
03:19:59,799 --> 03:20:03,760
Speaker 1: A wouldn't have a greater amount of a certainty.

3463
03:20:03,440 --> 03:20:04,000
Speaker 9: That he would.

3464
03:20:04,200 --> 03:20:05,799
Speaker 1: And I said, no, that's the whole point, man.

3465
03:20:05,840 --> 03:20:08,680
Speaker 51: I was like, the certainty that I have as an

3466
03:20:08,719 --> 03:20:11,479
individual going through all these church documents, going through all

3467
03:20:11,520 --> 03:20:15,200
these councils and these canons, like we're on the same

3468
03:20:15,239 --> 03:20:18,000
plane field. It's not like I can claim something that

3469
03:20:18,639 --> 03:20:21,840
I have and you don't. But it's just the recognizing

3470
03:20:21,920 --> 03:20:24,879
of philosophical justification. And I said, I don't think.

3471
03:20:24,799 --> 03:20:25,239
Speaker 1: You have that.

3472
03:20:25,680 --> 03:20:28,719
Speaker 51: You've already admitted, like Ortland and all these other Protestants

3473
03:20:28,719 --> 03:20:33,239
will admit that the canon that they've received is fallible,

3474
03:20:33,319 --> 03:20:36,639
that the message, the Gospel they've received is fallible. And

3475
03:20:36,719 --> 03:20:38,879
I said, you don't see that as like being any

3476
03:20:38,959 --> 03:20:42,840
troublesome to you, right, And he just said, well, no,

3477
03:20:43,000 --> 03:20:46,040
He's like, I could have justifiable belief in it, don't

3478
03:20:46,040 --> 03:20:47,479
have to have certainty in it. And I was like,

3479
03:20:48,159 --> 03:20:51,319
I think you're still confusing the categories. Like I don't

3480
03:20:51,360 --> 03:20:52,840
care what you have certainty about you?

3481
03:20:52,840 --> 03:20:54,719
Speaker 12: Now, how is it gonna tell me? If I mean,

3482
03:20:54,799 --> 03:20:56,959
I've studied, I prayed a lot, and I'll come up

3483
03:20:57,000 --> 03:21:00,319
with my own canon, because I mean you can't. I mean,

3484
03:21:00,360 --> 03:21:05,520
by your Protestant canon, you've admitted it. You have admitted

3485
03:21:05,600 --> 03:21:07,879
as fallible. So on what basis am I wrong if

3486
03:21:07,879 --> 03:21:09,520
I've come up with my own canon. This is how

3487
03:21:09,600 --> 03:21:12,559
stupid Protestantism is. It has to admit that literally every

3488
03:21:12,680 --> 03:21:16,760
church can come up with denomination or individual gathering of

3489
03:21:17,479 --> 03:21:19,440
strip mall people can come up with their own canon,

3490
03:21:19,559 --> 03:21:21,559
and you can't. You literally can't tell them that they're wrong.

3491
03:21:21,639 --> 03:21:23,600
With any authority. You can say, well, I don't think

3492
03:21:23,639 --> 03:21:25,879
it's a raight canon, but hey, I mean it's it's

3493
03:21:25,920 --> 03:21:28,200
a free for all because it's fallible. There's nothing that's

3494
03:21:28,239 --> 03:21:29,479
binding within church history.

3495
03:21:31,879 --> 03:21:32,239
Speaker 1: Correct?

3496
03:21:32,319 --> 03:21:32,559
Speaker 3: Correct?

3497
03:21:32,559 --> 03:21:33,479
Speaker 1: All right? Sweet man?

3498
03:21:33,520 --> 03:21:35,200
Speaker 51: I just he's a dear friend of mine, you know,

3499
03:21:35,239 --> 03:21:37,799
I just wanted to make sure that my critiques were

3500
03:21:38,719 --> 03:21:41,799
were I guess good critiques.

3501
03:21:41,440 --> 03:21:45,000
Speaker 12: You know, I think so much. I think they're good points.

3502
03:21:53,760 --> 03:21:56,399
Genus one dollar. Your recommendation is that good resources or

3503
03:21:56,600 --> 03:22:01,079
Orthodox doctrine or recapitulation Cosmic Mystery of Christ by Saint

3504
03:22:01,120 --> 03:22:06,520
Maximus MKG. Do you think that the Theophany of Joshua five?

3505
03:22:08,319 --> 03:22:12,000
Would you debate it? What's to debate? It's clearly like

3506
03:22:12,120 --> 03:22:15,360
he falls in his face to quote worship, and it says,

3507
03:22:15,440 --> 03:22:17,520
take off your sandals for the place where you stand

3508
03:22:17,559 --> 03:22:20,319
as holy. So that's telling us it's just like in

3509
03:22:20,440 --> 03:22:24,319
Exodus when Moses falls down in his face and God says,

3510
03:22:24,399 --> 03:22:27,399
take off your shoes for the place where you're standing

3511
03:22:27,440 --> 03:22:30,159
as holy. So it's the same Angel of the Lord

3512
03:22:30,920 --> 03:22:33,879
Theophany as what Moses saw. So yes, I think that

3513
03:22:34,079 --> 03:22:37,000
is Christ. And I don't know what is there to

3514
03:22:37,079 --> 03:22:42,799
debate about that passage mkg. Angel just means messenger, so

3515
03:22:42,840 --> 03:22:46,680
I'm not sure why what there is to debate. I mean,

3516
03:22:49,280 --> 03:22:51,319
the only thing I could see somebody saying is that

3517
03:22:52,319 --> 03:22:54,559
maybe it's Michael because it's the commander of the army

3518
03:22:54,559 --> 03:22:59,280
of the Lord. But I mean Jesus outranks Michael, so yes,

3519
03:22:59,440 --> 03:23:01,799
Michael is the commander of the host of the Lord.

3520
03:23:02,159 --> 03:23:04,159
But Jesus is above the commander of the host, the Lord,

3521
03:23:04,200 --> 03:23:06,360
so he's also the commander of the hostly Lord. So

3522
03:23:06,719 --> 03:23:11,920
I don't understand what the argument would be on this passage.

3523
03:23:11,920 --> 03:23:14,159
I'm trying to think of any other way to say

3524
03:23:14,280 --> 03:23:29,559
that this is not a theophany coal. This is another

3525
03:23:29,600 --> 03:23:31,440
point I want to say too, and this bears on

3526
03:23:31,639 --> 03:23:37,479
the previous question about Theophanes. Theophanes are in Orthodox theology

3527
03:23:37,559 --> 03:23:40,959
and mystery, and I don't have an answer exactly to

3528
03:23:41,079 --> 03:23:47,879
tell you the logarithmic, technological silicon valley account of how

3529
03:23:48,200 --> 03:23:51,719
they happen. We are told, and it is revealed that

3530
03:23:51,840 --> 03:23:55,799
Theophanes are energetic manifestations in time and space. They are

3531
03:23:55,920 --> 03:23:58,879
called divine, they are worshiped, they are called Yahweh. They're

3532
03:23:58,920 --> 03:24:02,200
called the face of Yahweh. I don't know how Christ

3533
03:24:02,280 --> 03:24:05,920
does that, and I do not believe that divinity changes,

3534
03:24:06,079 --> 03:24:11,280
or that it undergoes change or whatever. I don't know how,

3535
03:24:12,319 --> 03:24:16,600
but somehow it happens. Because all the Israelites see a

3536
03:24:17,840 --> 03:24:22,719
fire theophony in Leviticus nine. It's not a physical body

3537
03:24:22,760 --> 03:24:27,360
of Christ that's manifesting. The burning bush is a theophony.

3538
03:24:28,000 --> 03:24:30,159
I don't know how. We don't know how. So at

3539
03:24:30,159 --> 03:24:34,520
a certain point there is mystery. There's no rational, academic

3540
03:24:34,600 --> 03:24:38,840
explanation of every single element of Orthodox theology and Trinitarian theology.

3541
03:24:39,559 --> 03:24:42,959
This is why it's called communicatio idiomatum. This is why

3542
03:24:43,079 --> 03:24:48,280
Saint Cyril says God died for us, God became a baby. Okay,

3543
03:24:48,319 --> 03:24:52,559
they're not contradictions, but they are mysteries. And so to

3544
03:24:53,399 --> 03:24:56,879
have this attitude of like, oh, you're an authority because

3545
03:24:56,920 --> 03:25:00,280
you said that there's a face of the Lord. The

3546
03:25:00,360 --> 03:25:02,399
scriptures say that the Son is the face of the

3547
03:25:02,479 --> 03:25:05,280
Lord and that his glory appears in time and space.

3548
03:25:05,959 --> 03:25:08,520
I don't know how that is. But I'm not a Muslim,

3549
03:25:08,520 --> 03:25:11,079
I'm not an athari I'm not an anthromomorphic heretic, because

3550
03:25:11,120 --> 03:25:14,120
I say, what is in the scriptures and what is

3551
03:25:14,159 --> 03:25:16,280
in divine revelation. It's what say Maximus, and it's what

3552
03:25:16,600 --> 03:25:20,520
Saint Gregor Palma say. Palma says that the physical eye

3553
03:25:20,680 --> 03:25:25,040
can see the theophanes how. I don't know how, But

3554
03:25:25,159 --> 03:25:28,360
this is precisely why they saw Isaiah in two. Because

3555
03:25:28,440 --> 03:25:31,360
Isaiah said he saw the Logos on the throne. How

3556
03:25:32,000 --> 03:25:36,559
he wasn't incarnate yet. I don't know how. God doesn't

3557
03:25:36,600 --> 03:25:39,200
tell us all the hows. It's the same as creation.

3558
03:25:39,360 --> 03:25:42,159
How did God create? Exnel? Give me the formula how?

3559
03:25:42,440 --> 03:25:42,680
Speaker 9: How?

3560
03:25:42,959 --> 03:25:43,079
Speaker 1: Uh?

3561
03:25:43,760 --> 03:25:46,520
Speaker 12: I'm asperg. Tell me how, or you're a heretic.

3562
03:25:46,719 --> 03:25:47,120
Speaker 38: I don't know.

3563
03:25:47,360 --> 03:25:49,719
Speaker 12: I don't know the how. Nobody knows the hows. We're

3564
03:25:49,760 --> 03:25:50,760
told that it happened.

3565
03:25:51,520 --> 03:25:52,000
Speaker 17: Tell me how.

3566
03:25:52,040 --> 03:25:54,600
Speaker 12: There's a difference between procession and generation.

3567
03:25:54,879 --> 03:25:55,440
Speaker 8: Tell me how?

3568
03:25:55,799 --> 03:25:56,319
Speaker 1: Tell me how.

3569
03:25:56,399 --> 03:25:58,719
Speaker 12: I'm asperg. I need everything. It's filled out like a

3570
03:25:58,799 --> 03:26:01,600
giant algorithm. We're also believe it. Or now you're misleading me.

3571
03:26:01,799 --> 03:26:05,399
I need the algorithm. Chicken didn't need a chunky milk.

3572
03:26:08,040 --> 03:26:12,799
I don't know. There's not an answer to everything. Grow up, Cole,

3573
03:26:12,879 --> 03:26:13,239
what's up?

3574
03:26:15,239 --> 03:26:15,440
Speaker 1: Hey?

3575
03:26:15,639 --> 03:26:22,000
Speaker 9: Jay? Former Mormon? Here it was. I've heard a few

3576
03:26:22,079 --> 03:26:24,319
times Mormon's get on and.

3577
03:26:24,479 --> 03:26:27,200
Speaker 5: Just just trive me nuts hearing about it, just knowing

3578
03:26:27,239 --> 03:26:29,920
I was in it for way too long, but grew

3579
03:26:30,040 --> 03:26:32,799
up in it and didn't realize it was what it was.

3580
03:26:32,920 --> 03:26:36,639
Speaker 9: And I liked your arguments with about justice.

3581
03:26:36,520 --> 03:26:41,840
Speaker 5: That Putnam his own scriptures and Genesis and all that craziness.

3582
03:26:41,920 --> 03:26:44,520
But some of the things that I found the most

3583
03:26:45,079 --> 03:26:52,159
intriguing about Mormonism itself is more of the argument of

3584
03:26:53,399 --> 03:26:56,479
the evidences that we have, Like I'm right now, I'm

3585
03:26:56,479 --> 03:26:56,879
actually in.

3586
03:26:56,879 --> 03:26:57,760
Speaker 9: The increase stage.

3587
03:26:57,879 --> 03:27:00,319
Speaker 5: I've been going to a moth odoxi for a few

3588
03:27:00,399 --> 03:27:06,479
months now, but I'm working on Katachusis. But it's been

3589
03:27:06,559 --> 03:27:10,680
fascinating just to see, like the I guess the scholarly side,

3590
03:27:10,719 --> 03:27:13,159
I know what the doops isn't like they don't like

3591
03:27:13,200 --> 03:27:15,520
hang their hats scholarly stuff. But just the fact that

3592
03:27:15,600 --> 03:27:19,239
we actually have physical evidences of the translations to the

3593
03:27:19,280 --> 03:27:22,879
Bibles and all that stuff, and then most of the

3594
03:27:22,959 --> 03:27:27,799
stuff within Mormonism is trust me, bro, just you got

3595
03:27:27,920 --> 03:27:31,040
to have faith, you got to have a warm feeling, you.

3596
03:27:31,079 --> 03:27:31,879
Speaker 12: Have a question or anything.

3597
03:27:33,840 --> 03:27:38,000
Speaker 5: Just I didn't know if you knew of like some

3598
03:27:38,120 --> 03:27:42,959
of the physical deals that came with the physical the only.

3599
03:27:42,879 --> 03:27:45,920
Speaker 9: Time that there has been any physical evidence of justice.

3600
03:27:45,920 --> 03:27:50,600
Speaker 5: Smith's translations have been like clearly been frauds in regards.

3601
03:27:50,319 --> 03:27:52,760
Speaker 9: To like the Book of Abraham, mainly like the pull

3602
03:27:52,840 --> 03:27:53,440
up Great Price.

3603
03:27:55,600 --> 03:27:58,120
Speaker 12: I don't know, I don't have any physical evidences about

3604
03:27:58,319 --> 03:28:03,000
the history of the fraudulent translations, but I know they're frauds.

3605
03:28:03,680 --> 03:28:08,200
But I can tell you that there are absolutely no

3606
03:28:08,799 --> 03:28:12,440
texts of Genesis prior to Joseph Smith that have anything

3607
03:28:12,719 --> 03:28:16,680
close to twelve eleven verses added to Genesis that predict

3608
03:28:16,760 --> 03:28:20,280
Joseph Smith. And nobody in the astory of the world

3609
03:28:20,959 --> 03:28:24,280
has ever believed or thought of anything so stupid. And

3610
03:28:24,399 --> 03:28:27,280
if you can't recognize that, if no text had Joseph

3611
03:28:27,280 --> 03:28:30,840
Smith in thirteen verses to Genesis fifty and Joseph Smith

3612
03:28:30,879 --> 03:28:35,479
adds himself, if you think that's a real prophecy, I

3613
03:28:35,559 --> 03:28:37,239
don't know what I can There's nothing I can tell you.

3614
03:28:38,239 --> 03:28:41,920
I can't help you. Sorry, Silas five Bucks. I'd love

3615
03:28:41,920 --> 03:28:45,920
to see you debate rabbis like miss Rock or Singer.

3616
03:28:46,159 --> 03:28:53,879
They're crazy and brag about debating goofy evangelical professors. I

3617
03:28:53,920 --> 03:28:57,799
don't know. I mean, we've had maybe five Jews come

3618
03:28:57,840 --> 03:29:00,760
in debate in open forms. Gooner squad five Bucks is

3619
03:29:00,879 --> 03:29:03,360
nationalism at odds with curse in theology. No, I never

3620
03:29:03,440 --> 03:29:04,840
said that, so I don't know where you would get that.

3621
03:29:04,840 --> 03:29:10,600
I would say that many Christians quote unquote believe in

3622
03:29:10,840 --> 03:29:22,040
liberal views of open borders. I've never argued that all

3623
03:29:22,120 --> 03:29:25,920
of the same Protestant pastors by the way. Everybody sent

3624
03:29:26,079 --> 03:29:30,000
them the links as usual, and of course none of

3625
03:29:30,040 --> 03:29:35,040
them have come. Jay Chase Davis, that guy. We've asked

3626
03:29:35,120 --> 03:29:38,879
him multiple times, I've DMed him multiple times, and every

3627
03:29:38,920 --> 03:29:40,440
time a DM ME say I can't do it. I

3628
03:29:40,600 --> 03:29:42,280
can't do it. So it was like weeks of not

3629
03:29:42,399 --> 03:29:45,879
being able to do it. So none of these Protestant

3630
03:29:45,879 --> 03:29:48,120
people are going to I'm gonna come do this. Do

3631
03:29:48,200 --> 03:29:50,760
you have any thoughts about the book Thinking Orthodox two dollars?

3632
03:29:51,520 --> 03:29:53,360
I've not read that, sorry, so I don't. I can't

3633
03:29:53,399 --> 03:29:57,040
speak to that. I feel like I'm missing some super

3634
03:29:57,120 --> 03:30:04,600
jets anyway, I don't know. Thank you guys, a lot

3635
03:30:04,639 --> 03:30:08,440
of fun tonight. Thank you Father Deacon for joining me.

3636
03:30:09,600 --> 03:30:13,040
If you would hit like and share. And I think

3637
03:30:13,079 --> 03:30:15,399
I'm on a podcaster in a little bit, in an hour,

3638
03:30:15,639 --> 03:30:18,079
so maybe two hours. I don't know if that'll I

3639
03:30:18,120 --> 03:30:20,760
don't know if that's live or what, but if it is,

3640
03:30:20,799 --> 03:30:24,319
I'll share it on the community tab and you can

3641
03:30:24,440 --> 03:30:27,479
join by the penned link