Speaker 1: Oh he is books it shoot. People say good money
Speaker 1: to see this movie.
Speaker 2: When they go out to a theater, they want cold sodas,
Speaker 2: pop popcorn and no monsters in the protection booth.
Speaker 3: Everyone pretend podcasting isn't boring.
Speaker 4: For the astro.
Speaker 2: Look at you took that song? Everything look so.
Speaker 4: Y'all know, looks up from out.
Speaker 2: Somebody nobody love.
Speaker 5: Like we love you?
Speaker 2: Why I see.
Speaker 4: You know?
Speaker 5: No looking back?
Speaker 6: Angela pray.
Speaker 2: More.
Speaker 7: Welcome to the projection booth. I'm your host, Mike White.
Speaker 7: Join me once again, is mister Aaron Peterson.
Speaker 3: Hello, got to be back.
Speaker 7: Also joining us, says mister Miguel Janso, Hello, how are you?
Speaker 7: We continue our look at rare, underseen or lost films
Speaker 7: with a look at Raphael Korkidies Angels and Cherubs, released
Speaker 7: in either nineteen seventy one or seventy two, depending on.
Speaker 3: Where you look.
Speaker 7: This was Korkidi's feature directorial debut. He often served as
Speaker 7: a cinematographer for other directors, including Machtezuma on La Manchion
Speaker 7: de la Cora and Howderowski on El Topo, Fondo Elis
Speaker 7: and The Holy Mountain. Corkiiti also worked quite often with
Speaker 7: screenwriter Carlos Yes Gus, and this was their first outing.
Speaker 7: It is the story of and Adam and Ekal told
Speaker 7: through some sort of surrealistic point of view. Will definitely
Speaker 7: be getting in here and getting into the details as
Speaker 7: much as we can. I don't know if we can
Speaker 7: spoil this film might actually be better if you watch
Speaker 7: this one after hearing this talk. The movie is available
Speaker 7: on YouTube or Lisa was recently, and the usual bootleg
Speaker 7: haunts like DVD. Lady Aaron, what did you think of
Speaker 7: Angels and Cherups?
Speaker 3: I don't know if you sture to start with me.
Speaker 3: I film this surrealist, very artistic in many ways, and
Speaker 3: not very good. No, I just I struggled with I mean,
Speaker 3: I think I understood the the visual narrative as was
Speaker 3: being told. It felt much more told than visuals and
Speaker 3: musical overtones than it was necessarily in dialogue of story beats.
Speaker 3: But it was it just it just didn't work for me.
Speaker 3: I felt like it was a little disjointed and even
Speaker 3: too vague for what it was trying to do, I guess.
Speaker 3: And Michael, how about yourself?
Speaker 5: Well, yeah, it was a very greatest feelience. I mean,
Speaker 5: when I watch a movie, try to a little bit
Speaker 5: understand what is it coming from and what is the
Speaker 5: context is made and a movement or historical moment. No,
Speaker 5: And in that sense, I watched it first without reading
Speaker 5: very much about Corkiti. You know, I knew what you
Speaker 5: were mentioned that he was a DP director of photography
Speaker 5: of Hoderovski and that he me a hint of course
Speaker 5: of where to go on. And I found many interesting
Speaker 5: things in the film, like unfortunately the copy is you know,
Speaker 5: is a print. It was kind of a video print,
Speaker 5: not the original sixteen millimeters, so it's difficult to appreciate.
Speaker 5: A very beautiful and very mystic direction of photography together
Speaker 5: with the landscapes which are very much of our ruins,
Speaker 5: ruins and abandoned places and decademy places, So that gives
Speaker 5: a lot of texture, a lot of meaning to the story.
Speaker 5: And I found it that very interesting. And then I
Speaker 5: start after watching it, I start reading a little bit
Speaker 5: more about where is Korkidi coming from and where is
Speaker 5: this film coming from? So I think giving giving to
Speaker 5: the audience a little bit more of context and linking
Speaker 5: this film to other films from the same time, I
Speaker 5: think they will probably appreciate it a little bit more
Speaker 5: and understand a little bit more the type of you know,
Speaker 5: narrative and cinematography at Sentinel.
Speaker 7: Yeah, it's a very interesting film, and yeah, I totally agree.
Speaker 7: I imagine that a original print of this is going
Speaker 7: to look really good. I mean, obviously he's a cinematographer
Speaker 7: by trade. This is well, it's not his directorial debut.
Speaker 7: He also made it short before this. Some people call
Speaker 7: it Mexico sixty eight instantantaneous. Instantaneous, I guess is the
Speaker 7: word in English. And that also is really interesting that
Speaker 7: one moves so quickly, and some of the other films
Speaker 7: that he has done move a lot faster. This one
Speaker 7: is much more contemplative, much slower, just a few settings.
Speaker 7: Really likes to use the desert as a setting, and
Speaker 7: this one starts with that. With this Adam and eve tail,
Speaker 7: I was kind of hoping that it would stay with
Speaker 7: the anim and eve Tail even longer, even though it
Speaker 7: was well, it wasn't silent because there's a voiceover in
Speaker 7: that part, and I'm guessing that that satan. So we
Speaker 7: start with this whole fall from Grace thing, and then
Speaker 7: we move quite a few one hundred years and I'm
Speaker 7: guessing this is more. It feels more like medieval times,
Speaker 7: even though there is some modernism to it. I mean,
Speaker 7: there's one character in here that looks exactly like Erik
Speaker 7: von Stroheim and something like grain delusion, and it's like, Okay,
Speaker 7: I didn't really expect that. But yeah, I'm very excited
Speaker 7: to try to unpack this movie a little bit more
Speaker 7: with you guys.
Speaker 3: It's very much a philosophical film, right.
Speaker 5: Landscapes are kind of amazing and when you really grubbed
Speaker 5: you at the beginning and you immediately are thrown into
Speaker 5: a very poetical narrative. But it's not I agree with Aaron,
Speaker 5: very very like, uh, you know, straightforward, and then you
Speaker 5: have to hint a bit what is the what is
Speaker 5: the film about? The The core I think is when
Speaker 5: I saw later on the sales the sires, I start
Speaker 5: to see a certain pattern, and this is a pattern
Speaker 5: of you know, the old the new versus the old.
Speaker 5: In this case is the fight of It's a very
Speaker 5: classical tale. Know, it's the fight of two lovers to
Speaker 5: escape from the class of the family. You know, of
Speaker 5: a very a very repressive father. So he takes Adam
Speaker 5: and if you know, it makes it like a medieval story,
Speaker 5: you know, Adam anif take the apple from the tree
Speaker 5: because they love each other, because they don't want to
Speaker 5: be eternal, and they offend God and this and they
Speaker 5: have to live as a normal person, you know. And
Speaker 5: it's kind of a parallelism with this kind of medieval
Speaker 5: tale where or it's not medieval, because you can see
Speaker 5: that it is perhaps more like eighteenth century post media
Speaker 5: and more modern. I don't know, it's it's very difficult
Speaker 5: to place the film because he uses many elements from
Speaker 5: many times. But there is this element of two lovers
Speaker 5: that offense father and they have to fight for their
Speaker 5: for their love and in many ways, so there is
Speaker 5: a film where desires are predominant. You know, they really
Speaker 5: really want to overcome this control of the father, this
Speaker 5: control of the society, to become free three lovers, you know.
Speaker 5: And I think if you go also to Desires and
Speaker 5: other movies by Korkidi, there is this revolutionary force that
Speaker 5: tries to leave behind the old and grab the new
Speaker 5: and get the new through the passion and through love
Speaker 5: and through desire.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it feels like there's a lot of themes here.
Speaker 4: Well.
Speaker 7: Obviously Christianity, starting with the whole Fall from Paradise thing.
Speaker 7: But then they have your main characters Andla and Christian
Speaker 7: pretty telling there as well. And there's a lot of
Speaker 7: stuff that's told through music. There are very musical scenes,
Speaker 7: very there's a whole scene in there with these monks.
Speaker 7: There's a Marionetta in here, and she seems to be
Speaker 7: being tried for heresy and has eventually burned at the stake. Yeah,
Speaker 7: a lot of a lot of Christian imagery going on
Speaker 7: through this whole thing. But then also I think a
Speaker 7: lot of class stuff as well. Just it feels like
Speaker 7: Christian isn't as wealthy or well to do, I suppose
Speaker 7: as Angela. It feels like that might be playing into
Speaker 7: this too. It's not quite Romeo and Juliet. Does it
Speaker 7: feel like the houses hate each other the families hate
Speaker 7: each other. But yeah, there's definitely that kind of starcross
Speaker 7: lover we have to get away from my overbearing father
Speaker 7: type of thing. But both of the fathers seem kind
Speaker 7: of overbearing. But I wouldn't say that the mothers are
Speaker 7: slouches either. I mean the mother, one of the mothers,
Speaker 7: Angela's mother really is, you know, asking quite a lot
Speaker 7: of Christian throughout the film.
Speaker 5: Yes, it's almost well we don't want to spoil it,
Speaker 5: but it's a little bit bumped as well. This sucks
Speaker 5: the life of you know. So yeah, there is this
Speaker 5: presence of the all no sucking the life and the
Speaker 5: energy of the young people that wants to you know,
Speaker 5: desire and love and they have an erotic as far
Speaker 5: as I see in the three films that I see,
Speaker 5: there is this erootic force very strong in in Corky,
Speaker 5: you know, and he likes to portray it naked bodies
Speaker 5: and desire, desired bodies, know, and and and it's very
Speaker 5: interesting for me because it just apostes and also in
Speaker 5: Angels and Carabins, it just apostes this very kind of
Speaker 5: decadent spaces like charges, ruins, things, constructions that are falling
Speaker 5: apart and are full of texture with this very much
Speaker 5: of a passion and you know, an erotic bodies. And
Speaker 5: I find it I find it interesting that you know
Speaker 5: that there's just the position Leana, they're only a director
Speaker 5: of photography, you know, can perhaps seen less something powerful.
Speaker 7: Yeah, it feels like there's a lot of tension between
Speaker 7: the religious and the sensual, the decadent like you're talking about.
Speaker 7: I mean, there's a lot of emotion going on between
Speaker 7: Angela and Christian, but they have to be very repressed
Speaker 7: through this whole thing. But like even the scenes of
Speaker 7: them going through the meadow, you know, which should be
Speaker 7: very joyous kind of thing, but then they're very quiet.
Speaker 7: There's not that much dialogue in this movie. And I mean,
Speaker 7: I remember they're going through the force at one point
Speaker 7: holding hands, and they run across this talking about the
Speaker 7: religious angle of it. They run across this Jewish man
Speaker 7: who's in this wooden what slash cage. It looks like
Speaker 7: he's in a cage at first, but then you you know,
Speaker 7: the camera cuts and you see, I'm pretty sure that
Speaker 7: it's open on one side. It's almost more like a
Speaker 7: like a hut or what is it in the Jewish
Speaker 7: wedding story, like the huppah, you know, just it's like
Speaker 7: this makeshift tent that this guy has. And then there
Speaker 7: are these people that are throughout the entire film, where
Speaker 7: there will be little groups of it looks like they're women. Again,
Speaker 7: can't really make out all the details in this print,
Speaker 7: but looks like they're women, and they're always wearing black.
Speaker 7: They kind of remind me of all the mothers from
Speaker 7: like the Shuji Teriyama films, like a pastoral to die
Speaker 7: in country. You know, it's just like they're always in
Speaker 7: the back kind of hanging out, or sometimes they'll be
Speaker 7: in that kind of courtroom setting just standing around.
Speaker 3: And I'm not sure.
Speaker 7: Exactly what these folks are doing, but they're like this
Speaker 7: ever presence.
Speaker 3: Worshipers or judgment, something along those lines.
Speaker 5: I mean, yes, it's a very also classical. In the stain,
Speaker 5: there's a woman in black, yes, for supperson mourners, you know,
Speaker 5: and before it was not on the in towns you
Speaker 5: can find them very easily, you know, there's this woman
Speaker 5: almost like a taliban, not anymore, but you know, even
Speaker 5: after the Spanish Civil War not still you were going
Speaker 5: to the town and this woman totally dress in black
Speaker 5: and you can even see the face and very you know,
Speaker 5: dark and you know, with that very strong presence.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 5: I think the film has a lot of these images.
Speaker 5: We can go later on maybe to try to understand
Speaker 5: or what I understood or what we understood that where
Speaker 5: are these images coming? I think is the Catholic imaginary
Speaker 5: or imaginary sorry of Mexico or Spain, and you know
Speaker 5: this imaginary is there that kind of versus the new blood,
Speaker 5: kind of some sort of exploitation, you know, new blood,
Speaker 5: new energy. And I don't think it's a coincidence. I
Speaker 5: think obviously Gorkidy was you know, was well in form
Speaker 5: of what was happening in the world cinema and what
Speaker 5: was very He was very connected to to Holorowski, and
Speaker 5: he was very connected to many other filmmakers to the
Speaker 5: This magazine that they established in their early sixth is
Speaker 5: called Nova Cinema and the New Cinema or Novaine they
Speaker 5: call themselves group. I didn't know, but through the movie
Speaker 5: I started researching and I find out. So they were
Speaker 5: trying to reform also the the Mexican cinema, not through
Speaker 5: the through the novel back, through the French novel back,
Speaker 5: adapting it to the context of Mexico and to the
Speaker 5: Catholic repressive environment, but also full of not only repressive,
Speaker 5: but also full of mysticism and full of esoterism. No,
Speaker 5: that is also you can find in the theater place
Speaker 5: of Holorowski and Arabel. So yes, we can go there.
Speaker 5: But I think yes, these are kind of the main topics,
Speaker 5: not like repression, mysticism, Yes, desires, certain sexploitations.
Speaker 7: We should probably address the elephant in the room, which
Speaker 7: is the vamporism.
Speaker 3: Was that was a surprise.
Speaker 7: This movie has been talked about in terms of, oh,
Speaker 7: this Mexican vampire film, and I wouldn't put this as
Speaker 7: a vampire film, like right at the end, like eleventh
Speaker 7: hour is when they bring in the vamporism and then
Speaker 7: even knowing that and rewatching the film.
Speaker 3: It really no, no, not at all.
Speaker 7: If you put this in your book of vampire movies,
Speaker 7: come on, take it out. Maybe a little footnote or something.
Speaker 7: This doesn't need to be included in there. Yeah, it's
Speaker 7: it's not that crucial to the plot.
Speaker 3: I think it's just a representation of the ultimate evil, right,
Speaker 3: I mean it just feels like what they're going for
Speaker 3: here is just vampires immediately come to mind as that
Speaker 3: ultimate evil.
Speaker 5: Yes, he said, they are a you know, sucking your life,
Speaker 5: sucking your blood, trying to stick with you, to get
Speaker 5: you in the under your under their control. I think
Speaker 5: it talks more about all of this. It's definitely a
Speaker 5: esoteric movie, or all the corkyst movies are esothetic. So
Speaker 5: we understand a little where is it coming from? This
Speaker 5: is poterism almost like a uncertain similar similarities with Lucifer
Speaker 5: rising for instance, from isol a kind of anger, and
Speaker 5: so it's a psycho psychedelic times or already the seventies,
Speaker 5: and they are at the end the sounds of a
Speaker 5: very strong you know, esothetics that were you know, Araval
Speaker 5: and Hodrowski. You know that I wanted to reform the theater,
Speaker 5: the scene, know in Paris, so that you have to
Speaker 5: you know, see all these contexts started to start understanding.
Speaker 5: I think this this kind of vampire images, images of
Speaker 5: control power.
Speaker 7: Yeah, I don't know if Korkiiti would have considered himself
Speaker 7: a member of the Panic movement, but it definitely plays
Speaker 7: alongside of that and the whole I mean, the mysticism
Speaker 7: that there's a whole scene in here with tarot cards.
Speaker 7: I'm just like, okay, that's very Howderowski.
Speaker 3: You know, he loves the taro. That's all for me.
Speaker 7: Like Holy Mountains so influenced by the Taro. And yeah,
Speaker 7: it's interesting to have this very catholic movie with a
Speaker 7: tarot scene in it. And I'm like, okay, it's like
Speaker 7: people just kind of grasping for whatever is going to
Speaker 7: try to help them understand the world because they just
Speaker 7: don't get it, you know, whether it's praying to God
Speaker 7: or looking at cards and trying to figure out what
Speaker 7: the future is going to hold for us.
Speaker 5: I think, yes, I think it's the is in the
Speaker 5: wave because panical movement or mommental panicle was created in
Speaker 5: the early sixties, late fifties, early sixties, I think if
Speaker 5: I remember correctly, and it was basically the Rosky was
Speaker 5: already doing her his theater place in in Mexico. And
Speaker 5: but he was very, very fun of Aval of Ernanda Rawal,
Speaker 5: which is a Spanish guy that was in Mexico in
Speaker 5: the story in Paris, and he went to Paris to
Speaker 5: meet Arabal because he was performing his theater place. The
Speaker 5: theater place of Varraval were very strange, were very They
Speaker 5: were not dialogues. He wanted to come to the original
Speaker 5: mining of the theater. That's why it's called panic of
Speaker 5: It is from pan and and this is like the
Speaker 5: pan the god. And at the court of the theater
Speaker 5: is horror, love and astonishment, not these three elements that
Speaker 5: are very you know, shaking. You have to impress the audience.
Speaker 5: You have to get the audience totally out of you know,
Speaker 5: like the audience is not anymore as somebody that is
Speaker 5: coming to reflect on the text or to see a representation,
Speaker 5: but to see a happening kind of the first performance
Speaker 5: kind of artists or proto performance artists late fifties. So
Speaker 5: there is this kind of performatic experience, not that the
Speaker 5: audience goes and gets shaken by something that they cannot understand,
Speaker 5: and very esoteric forces that are coming to talk about
Speaker 5: the erotic forces that deadly forces, horror terror, horror forces.
Speaker 5: And I think I see it totally the continuation of that.
Speaker 5: I think I think Aubinez is a panic movie. Yes,
Speaker 5: I think it belongs. I don't know. I mean, I'm
Speaker 5: not an expert, but I read it like that. You know,
Speaker 5: maybe Colkid would say, no, it's not, but you can see,
Speaker 5: you can see the presence of this poetical view, the
Speaker 5: experience of the audience not and they're not doing a representation.
Speaker 5: I have been reading that Araval was very much inspired
Speaker 5: by our Todd and by the bal baliness with the
Speaker 5: ballet theater, where again there is nothing to represent, but
Speaker 5: something must happen in there. Not like a little bit
Speaker 5: like the bud ceremony, you know, where you get inside
Speaker 5: and then the the members of the of the colt
Speaker 5: start kind of being possessed by the different gods to
Speaker 5: have an esoteric experience, and when you finish this sootic experience,
Speaker 5: you have a knowledge, a new knowledge, like okay, I
Speaker 5: learned this, So I learned that you know, if you
Speaker 5: enter into that, they are they're made for that, not
Speaker 5: to have something a poetical experience that you don't grasp
Speaker 5: very much the story, but they take you, start taking
Speaker 5: you through through very strange and dark corners, and they
Speaker 5: try to shake you, and and so I yes, I will.
Speaker 5: I would say it's a would you would you say
Speaker 5: it's a Punnico movie?
Speaker 7: Or I saw more of that in his later stuff
Speaker 7: like Pafnuccio Santo like that movie. Felt like, Okay, this
Speaker 7: is definitely you know, what I would expect from somebody
Speaker 7: who worked with Howderowski. I mean, Kurkiitia has been a
Speaker 7: fascinating figure to me for years. I mean I actually
Speaker 7: tried to reach out a few years before he passed away,
Speaker 7: just to get an interview and just talk to him more.
Speaker 7: Because as far twenty twenty five. There's not a ton
Speaker 7: of stuff written about him in English, and it's kind
Speaker 7: of strange to me because he made four feature films
Speaker 7: and then interestingly turned to video and started to work
Speaker 7: in video as his medium, which is very unusual for
Speaker 7: that particular time, you know, a cinematographer turning to video
Speaker 7: when video was just not you know what it is today.
Speaker 7: You know, there are a lot of limitations, but he
Speaker 7: was having a good time, I think, playing with video,
Speaker 7: and some of his films like Let's figure Out the
Speaker 7: de la Pasceon like that one is interesting to watch
Speaker 7: to see, like, oh, okay, now he's in this whole
Speaker 7: different medium and doing this. But his four feature films
Speaker 7: absolutely gorgeous. I mean, you know, Aaron, see what you
Speaker 7: like about the plotting of this film, and I tend
Speaker 7: to agree with you. It's very slow, very contemplative. I mean,
Speaker 7: there's that dinner scene that goes on forever and nobody
Speaker 7: says anything, and I'm like, okay, this is interesting. I
Speaker 7: think I could maybe enjoicing this at a theater a
Speaker 7: little bit more than watching it at home, just to
Speaker 7: enjoy the experience and to see the image on a screen,
Speaker 7: you know, big screen. But yeah, I was just always
Speaker 7: fascinated by this guy because there was just so little
Speaker 7: written about him, even though his films are beautiful to
Speaker 7: look at, and it took so long for good versions
Speaker 7: of his films to be available. I don't want to
Speaker 7: say on video. I mean, these are video files that
Speaker 7: we're watching, but there aren't as far as I know,
Speaker 7: DVDs of these movies, blue rays of these movies. I
Speaker 7: don't know if anybody's ever released these officially on any
Speaker 7: sort of label, which is again just kind of a shame,
Speaker 7: like this whole you know, mini movement in Mexico that
Speaker 7: is completely you know, under the rug. I know he
Speaker 7: is more appreciated in Mexico, and there was a retrospective
Speaker 7: of his work. If you look out on YouTube, you
Speaker 7: can see all these clips and people talking about his movies.
Speaker 7: But you know that was from I think one festival,
Speaker 7: not necessarily a you know, global movement to let's pay
Speaker 7: some respect to Raphael Korkidi.
Speaker 3: Even though the movie wasn't for me and it's it's
Speaker 3: I find it a little too abstract and kind of
Speaker 3: all over the place ploty wise, you have to mind
Speaker 3: the confidence of any director that will commit to like.
Speaker 3: When I say philosophical, I mean sincerely, it's a very
Speaker 3: philosophical film. It's very you read into it what you
Speaker 3: want to read in to it. I'm sure he has
Speaker 3: a very specific view of what this is, but I
Speaker 3: don't think you're going to get five people that agree
Speaker 3: on what that view is. I don't think he would
Speaker 3: have five completely different interpretations. And I admire the confidence
Speaker 3: that it takes and make something like that. So even
Speaker 3: though maybe I didn't enjoy at the same level as
Speaker 3: you guys do, I appreciate what he put into it
Speaker 3: because it is it is something that it's obviously very
Speaker 3: specific and personal to him. The level of confidence it
Speaker 3: takes to make that is impressive and commit to it.
Speaker 5: It's just strange as well that yeah, I found it
Speaker 5: very strange because I tried to find interviews in Spanish.
Speaker 5: They're not. It's like, cow, is this possible? Because okay,
Speaker 5: even if yeah, not interviews and online and just the
Speaker 5: fragments I found some fragments. I didn't find interviews online.
Speaker 5: And you know, even yes, I think he belonged to
Speaker 5: you know, they in New Mexico. They made a very
Speaker 5: big effort to reform Gurupa that the new cinema group
Speaker 5: that inspired by the novel back they made a super
Speaker 5: good effort to reform the cinema in Mexico and to
Speaker 5: open this film to I mean the film environment to
Speaker 5: other you know, other cinematographies and other films from all
Speaker 5: across the world. And they pushed for the first film school.
Speaker 5: This is what I read, the first you know, the
Speaker 5: public film school. So they made a lot of reform
Speaker 5: in Mexico and they were a very white group. They
Speaker 5: started with a magazine like it was the khir To
Speaker 5: cinema version Mexican versus. They were inspired by that and
Speaker 5: one of the numbers was dedicated fully to Bunuel, and
Speaker 5: Buel support them, you know they I don't know how much,
Speaker 5: but you know they were kind of saying like, yes,
Speaker 5: there must be a because it was some sort of
Speaker 5: a golden years in Mexico. They have they have other Oski.
Speaker 5: You know, there was some sort of a new wave
Speaker 5: there that was making it. So is this strange that
Speaker 5: if you see that just as a member of that group,
Speaker 5: why we don't have good copies or a Blu Ray
Speaker 5: edition or a DBD. You know, if you consider not
Speaker 5: maybe the films in their singularity or particularly but there's
Speaker 5: a part of a group that changed a little bit,
Speaker 5: you know, the Mexican cinema and the way and open
Speaker 5: it to open the way for more experimental films, more
Speaker 5: philosophical and political films, no like in many many other
Speaker 5: places during the sixties or early seventies. And it's just interesting.
Speaker 7: Yeah, I have one dumb theory about why his films
Speaker 7: aren't more readily available. And again this could be completely stupid.
Speaker 7: There is a lot of nudity in his films, and
Speaker 7: a lot of child nudity. There is a real thing
Speaker 7: about that, especially here in the States where it's just
Speaker 7: like I mean, I'll be honest. So, like I mentioned
Speaker 7: Shuji Teriyama earlier and his emperors made ketchup has a
Speaker 7: lot of child nudity. Corkidi also lends the film called
Speaker 7: Puberton hunte I believe puberty basically also child nudity in
Speaker 7: that there's child nudity in Pafnuccio Santo. There's child nudity
Speaker 7: in this one. So where you can find certain films
Speaker 7: like these are out on eBay, where there are a
Speaker 7: bunch of fucking perverts who are all into child nudity,
Speaker 7: Like that's where you can find your copy of Emperor
Speaker 7: Tomato Ketchup is a bunch of fucking creeps trading tapes
Speaker 7: and selling tapes of this stuff. I don't know how
Speaker 7: it would fly if suddenly, you know, tomorrow, Vineger Syndrome announces, Hey,
Speaker 7: we're doing a whole set of Raphael Corkidi films. This
Speaker 7: is going to be fantastic. I think they would get
Speaker 7: shut down, especially in twenty twenty five, get shut down
Speaker 7: immediately because of child nudity inside of these movies. And
Speaker 7: I'm like, guys, come on, and especially with this one.
Speaker 7: And I mean, child Nuddy is child Nuddy, but this
Speaker 7: one is interesting with angels and chairs because all the
Speaker 7: kids are corkidies. I mean, you look at the credits
Speaker 7: to this and it's such a family affair, like the
Speaker 7: Adam and Eva's two children. The costume designer is named Krkiti.
Speaker 7: There's a bunch of corkidies in the production notes and
Speaker 7: it's like, okay, yeah, like this is his his feature debut.
Speaker 7: It is a scrappy film and so far as it
Speaker 7: feels like it took a lot to get made and
Speaker 7: using you know, among kids.
Speaker 3: Let's make a movie.
Speaker 5: There is a movie I was thinking about this, well, yes,
Speaker 5: child nudity, but there is a movie that is pretty
Speaker 5: much available by James rotten School. This is it, and
Speaker 5: it has a similar topic, you know, like it's kind
Speaker 5: of the beginning of the world. Is a very also poetical,
Speaker 5: and it's a sore film, but it has been you know,
Speaker 5: really so I watched it in Rotterdam Film Festival and
Speaker 5: you know, so it hasn't been the case in many
Speaker 5: you know, and it's com portrays the same some sort
Speaker 5: of pre you know. It's a child that is kind
Speaker 5: of throwing a ball and there is a voice talking
Speaker 5: about kind of the early it's kind of comparing the
Speaker 5: beginning of times with a small child, you know, a
Speaker 5: little bit like the theme of Adam and Eve. So
Speaker 5: I don't think it's it's kind of an atom or
Speaker 5: something isolated in the context of their experimental films of
Speaker 5: early seventies, but probably it is in the context of
Speaker 5: the Mexican cinema, because it's true that many of the
Speaker 5: Holosky movies and his movies were really much censored by
Speaker 5: a society that or the authorities that were very much
Speaker 5: into you know, an Acatholic country, same that it may
Speaker 5: happen in the in the Spain during the Franco times.
Speaker 5: I don't think it's a problem of our world perception,
Speaker 5: because I seen that in many American British you know,
Speaker 5: experimental filmmakers that nowadays are you know, still going around
Speaker 5: in festivals. Man, maybe it's just because these labels didn't
Speaker 5: discover him. Because I was talking with my friend here,
Speaker 5: the experimental film maker Kevind Racruz Filipino, and he didn't
Speaker 5: know about Corkili, you know, and then we are having
Speaker 5: lunch as well. Now they're not anymore, but we were
Speaker 5: today having lunch with with the with the responsible of
Speaker 5: the head of a cinema in Sofia Museum, which is
Speaker 5: like the moment here of Spain here admiring in the
Speaker 5: other room. And he didn't know about Corkili. Well, but
Speaker 5: if he had four future films and you know as
Speaker 5: certain and I think there was a broken link there
Speaker 5: in a you know, in a very much of a
Speaker 5: Mexican conservative society that because it's amazing there is no
Speaker 5: no information about him, is really and just as a
Speaker 5: member of that movement, as a member of our reformist movement.
Speaker 5: You know, it's really really strange.
Speaker 7: Well, he's even the cinematographer for Gelson Gases Anti Climax,
Speaker 7: which was you know, I'm right about that, and film
Speaker 7: as a subverse of art, you know, I believe I
Speaker 7: don't know if any of Corkidi's films themselves made it
Speaker 7: into Amasvogel's book, but yeah, there were definitely movies that
Speaker 7: he was related. Yeah, of course with the Howderowski films
Speaker 7: and even mentioned of Madness. You know, people should be
Speaker 7: familiar with him from that, even just like oh he was,
Speaker 7: you know, the cinematographer. It's a pretty big deal cinematographer
Speaker 7: on el Toobow and Holy Mountain and Fendo and Lisa.
Speaker 7: That's a pretty good resume right there. And yeah, the
Speaker 7: whole thing of like talking about like the experimental films
Speaker 7: from the Spanish countries and really pushing that envelope these
Speaker 7: Catholic countries where it's like, yeah, here's shell nudity, here's
Speaker 7: I don't know what it is about experimental filmmaking and
Speaker 7: the of animals, Like there's not that much animal death
Speaker 7: in angels and cherubs, thank goodness, but there's pigeon that
Speaker 7: doesn't make it out of this movie alive for sure,
Speaker 7: which is just very you know, it's not like a
Speaker 7: slaughter house scene or anything that we've seen in some
Speaker 7: other films. I mean, we just talked about Bell from
Speaker 7: Hell and that slaughterhouse that's in that movie.
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh. So it's not that extreme.
Speaker 7: But it feels like experimental filmmakers in this period of
Speaker 7: time are just like, Okay, give me some nudity and
Speaker 7: give me some animal death. Let's do it up and
Speaker 7: if you can mix the two even better.
Speaker 3: I'm believing I'm not a brude, but I'm going to
Speaker 3: come across the brute when it comes to child nudity.
Speaker 3: I'm a zero tolerance. I just don't find it in
Speaker 3: any form of art. I don't because kids. Maybe it's
Speaker 3: the dad and me, but it's the whole that they
Speaker 3: don't have a say, they're an agency, they're not old
Speaker 3: enough to make it, you know what kind of decision,
Speaker 3: and it's forever that sort of thing. So I felt
Speaker 3: very uncomfortable watching it. So I think there might be
Speaker 3: something to that, and I am very open to any
Speaker 3: artistic ex Russian that one I'm probably less open too,
Speaker 3: and I'm sure, there's a lot of people that feel
Speaker 3: the same, so that might be a reason why it's
Speaker 3: so hard to find a copy. That makes sense to me.
Speaker 7: Mikael, you mentioned that it's very hard to find stuff
Speaker 7: written about Kirkiti, and I totally agree. And like, one
Speaker 7: of the things if you google his name is a
Speaker 7: article from the bedlom files dot com a less than
Speaker 7: admiring take on the films of Raphael Kirkhiti. So someone
Speaker 7: took the time to write about Kirkhity, but it was yeah,
Speaker 7: this guy is not great. I'm like, oh, thanks, I'm
Speaker 7: looking for information about this filmmaker and like, yeah, not
Speaker 7: that good. I'm like, oh, okay, yeah, I mean again,
Speaker 7: you're welcome to your opinion.
Speaker 3: But it's just funny that that's one of the first listings.
Speaker 5: But it's nineteen sixty one. You know, there is this
Speaker 5: very conservative films in Mexico, you know all that, and
Speaker 5: only new el is doing this kind of survival movies
Speaker 5: that we were talking, and then there is a lot
Speaker 5: of you know, canteen Flowers and all these these you know,
Speaker 5: very commercial movies, and there is a bunch of people
Speaker 5: that that come and try to reform the cinema, I know,
Speaker 5: and and this is just for that it's important because
Speaker 5: they move and and they start, you know, pointing at
Speaker 5: the other other stuff now, and I think this is important.
Speaker 5: I mean, I don't care if the movie is a
Speaker 5: little bit better or worse, but how that kind of
Speaker 5: change the panorama. And Holowski definitely does. And for me,
Speaker 5: I don't, I don't see very much difference. I don't.
Speaker 5: I don't think Klorowsky movies are much better than Corkids,
Speaker 5: you know what I mean, Like it's true and not
Speaker 5: very fine of Kaldorowsky. Why because for me, there's this
Speaker 5: new cinema comes from to have two legs. No one
Speaker 5: is new l and Kalorowski, El I fund it much
Speaker 5: much more Funniers. I relate much too much to him.
Speaker 5: I think it's more, it's more universal Somehowsky is much
Speaker 5: more esothetical, and Eli is more they come from a
Speaker 5: different background, and I think Orkidy meets it kind of
Speaker 5: in the middle point of the two. For me is
Speaker 5: a guy that comes from the surrealist forces, which are
Speaker 5: very automatic and very you know, make you laugh. So
Speaker 5: it kind of linked you to people like Charlie Chaplin
Speaker 5: and Bastera kiton the Marx Brothers, you know, and just
Speaker 5: kind of finding forms that are very stontaneous and in
Speaker 5: the cispointanity makes you laugh. It's kind of breaks the
Speaker 5: expectations that you have for every time now with a
Speaker 5: deep also sense of psychological understanding of psychological perspect Meanwhile,
Speaker 5: Ajodorowski is much more primary, it's much more, it goes
Speaker 5: much more to the soterism, to very occultist forces. It's
Speaker 5: not that I said, it's because you can read the reference.
Speaker 5: You know. He's interested in magic. He's very interested in
Speaker 5: first expressions of theater, which are much more to do
Speaker 5: with the ritual and with so it becomes much more
Speaker 5: darker and much more cryptic and difficult to grasp. And
Speaker 5: I think, and this is like I would say, when
Speaker 5: it's estelic and the other surreal, and then you find
Speaker 5: this new cinema of Mexico that kind of And both
Speaker 5: Innuela and in Holosky they have the Catholic religion as
Speaker 5: something to start from, or that's something to oppose, something
Speaker 5: to think no like to, or as an environment or situation,
Speaker 5: and then you become this CORKYLI and I don't think
Speaker 5: it's too far away from any of these two, you know,
Speaker 5: I mean in the sense and that he's talking about
Speaker 5: the same topics, you know, repression, desire, and he's doing
Speaker 5: it in a very different way than Bunuela and Drosky
Speaker 5: did it, because Hodski was more into this comic you
Speaker 5: know world. He was more related to Moebus, to all
Speaker 5: the people from from later on, but from from parties
Speaker 5: and and and and Corkiddie was using the images from
Speaker 5: from the town he liked to go to. I read
Speaker 5: he liked to go to the village and work with
Speaker 5: local people, work with you know. So he had this
Speaker 5: kind of revolutionary mind. And also in in in the
Speaker 5: sales desires, it's talking about all the time about the revolution.
Speaker 5: There is this desire of revolution. So I don't see
Speaker 5: it so far away. I would like to see a
Speaker 5: good copy of it, you know, because I think it
Speaker 5: will gain a lot of strength and power if you
Speaker 5: see this beautiful cinematography. But I don't see it so
Speaker 5: far from this of this movement, So I don't it's
Speaker 5: a pity that they dismiss it, like, ah, this is
Speaker 5: a bad copy of Hoski, because it's not at all
Speaker 5: He's using the cadentist spaces in a very special way.
Speaker 5: You know, he really goes and is rooted in much
Speaker 5: more you know, landscapes and people of Mexico than Holosco.
Speaker 5: When you ever can do you know, like it has
Speaker 5: a certain sense of folklore there in the films. And
Speaker 5: this is I think very valid for me. You know
Speaker 5: that it's even a historical document, not that he was
Speaker 5: going into this series of villages and filming. Actually, I
Speaker 5: have an anecdote my friend guzvan der Verhead, whose wife
Speaker 5: is a lucifer in Mexico, like in twenty sixteen or fifteen,
Speaker 5: I don't remember, and I was talking about Corkidy with
Speaker 5: him like a month ago in Brussels, and he told
Speaker 5: me that we arrived into the town where Corkidy filmed
Speaker 5: his movies. Think he was Desires, he said, like, and
Speaker 5: they were very scared that if we filmed something here
Speaker 5: because the first question they ask is not going to
Speaker 5: be anything pornographic? Right? They were still that was this fear,
Speaker 5: you know, shooting something. Very still I still do this day.
Speaker 5: They were remembering that Colkitty was shooting there, you know,
Speaker 5: naked bodies and this type of so I think he
Speaker 5: was you know, probably a victim of that. At the
Speaker 5: same time, he was inspired by these places and by
Speaker 5: these people and by this folklore. So he was doing
Speaker 5: something very difficult, which is kind of what can I
Speaker 5: say esoteretic surreal films, you know that both are not
Speaker 5: the same, but surreal esoteretic using you know, towns and
Speaker 5: people and faulklore, local folklore, but putting this local folklore
Speaker 5: in a very difficult place, you know, because the people
Speaker 5: from that town you probably didn't like to be portraated
Speaker 5: in that way, you know. Or so it's a very
Speaker 5: difficult you know, and that probably granted a very difficult
Speaker 5: distribution for the films, you know, and then a very
Speaker 5: in a you know, in a twilight. It's what I
Speaker 5: imagine much.
Speaker 3: I don't see this film ever being distributed. I see
Speaker 3: this as like shown in random venues, local businesses. There's
Speaker 3: something along those lines. I don't know you'd ever get
Speaker 3: wide distribution. There's a lot of concerning thematic material here.
Speaker 7: For some people, the print that we watched or the
Speaker 7: copy that we watched is yeah, it's kind of muddy,
Speaker 7: the colors are pretty muted. It's just like, okay, yeah,
Speaker 7: there's probably something prettier here that we're not seeing.
Speaker 3: It's it's unfair, honestly for the director, it's unfair.
Speaker 7: But my god, the print that used to be available
Speaker 7: of this was this horrible think just nightmare. That was
Speaker 7: the first time I watched this movie. It was almost
Speaker 7: just like blobs on a screen kind of thing. It
Speaker 7: was really rough. And there is video on YouTube of
Speaker 7: like the restoration, and they have a line down the
Speaker 7: middle of the screen of like, here's how it used
Speaker 7: to look, Here's how it looks now. It's a shame
Speaker 7: that this is the best that we've got presently, but
Speaker 7: so much better than what we used to have. But yeah, like,
Speaker 7: it is tough to find these movies. It's tough to
Speaker 7: find them with English subtitles. They're the one that he did.
Speaker 7: And by the way, Miguel, thank you so much for
Speaker 7: not correcting my pronunciation of these words. I appreciate that.
Speaker 5: Thanks so much for not correcting my pronunc Yeah.
Speaker 3: So I'm going to try my best with this one.
Speaker 7: Alandar an Apu also known as the One who Comes
Speaker 7: from Heaven from nineteen seventy five. That one no subtitles for,
Speaker 7: but there are subs for Angels and Cherubs out there,
Speaker 7: there's Paunuccio Santo and then to say also has subtitles
Speaker 7: as well. I'm not sure if figures de la Passion
Speaker 7: because it's been a while since I've seen that one.
Speaker 7: But if that's got subs, to even see all four
Speaker 7: of these feature films that he shot on film with
Speaker 7: subtitles pretty tough, and then to find decent copies pretty tough.
Speaker 7: But yeah, Angels and Chirrups seem to be like the
Speaker 7: one that was the most difficult to find any sort
Speaker 7: of decent copy. Then finally a few years ago, I
Speaker 7: don't know if it was around that festival that they
Speaker 7: had for him, if that's what helped move this out
Speaker 7: so that we can now see a semi decent version
Speaker 7: of it.
Speaker 5: But oh, they're restoring I read it because I've seen
Speaker 5: in YouTube comparation and they were restoring engines and and Kurbins.
Speaker 5: And the copy is not available online because I didn't
Speaker 5: find it, but I know because I seen clips of
Speaker 5: the restored version, and now I'm googling, googling, but I
Speaker 5: have the Google here. There is there is in Thinna
Speaker 5: the National Fund of Mexico. They are restored slowly restoring films,
Speaker 5: because I've seen it. Here there is an entry from
Speaker 5: twenty twenty three. There is a catalog of restore films
Speaker 5: and there are a couple of titles, not the future films,
Speaker 5: but the short films. I hope the copies are not lost,
Speaker 5: because that's another thing that sometimes happened, you know, that
Speaker 5: that you pass it to video and the best quality
Speaker 5: video back in time umatic video whatever, and somehow the
Speaker 5: printing sixteen disappears, and then it's when you are a
Speaker 5: little bit the screw because you know the moment, I'm
Speaker 5: sure because it's so easy to restore. I mean at
Speaker 5: least two scan sixteen, make a new scan and then
Speaker 5: work from that. So I think it's just taking time.
Speaker 5: When I was talking with the Rainers, the head of cinema,
Speaker 5: immediately his ears made like that, it's like, don't take
Speaker 5: a look at that, because it's nowadays it's very difficult
Speaker 5: to find, you know, the unknown filmmakers. I mean there
Speaker 5: are any still in the world, but not so many,
Speaker 5: you know, and even what we consider on no filmmakers.
Speaker 5: You know, you go and there is always pretty much
Speaker 5: information about them, you know. So it's this is a
Speaker 5: Corklis is really a kind of extreme case and all
Speaker 5: this unknown filmmakers, not all filmmakers to be discovered, because
Speaker 5: it's really there is very very few things.
Speaker 3: I want to talk about. The subtitle tracks, because that
Speaker 3: is when you're talking about the print in the copy
Speaker 3: of it. The subtitle track would would often be my
Speaker 3: wife's Ecuadorian Miguel. So I had to ask her to
Speaker 3: come in and watch with me because the subtitle track
Speaker 3: was coming so late from many of the scenes and
Speaker 3: I don't speak full in Spanish, but thankfully obviously she does.
Speaker 3: She's like Glorian, and so where the track wasn't coming,
Speaker 3: I'm like, well, maybe it's not even here, because I
Speaker 3: mean it would literally come at different scenes, like a
Speaker 3: minute later, and so I would have to have her
Speaker 3: and kind of interpret what the dialogue was a little bit.
Speaker 3: So that was I can see that kind of putting
Speaker 3: a hindrance on someone trying to and appreciate it when
Speaker 3: if they don't speak for it Spanish, you know. And
Speaker 3: also she told me, don't try to do please, do
Speaker 3: not try to enunciate the names, because you're going to
Speaker 3: get them wrong, like just you know.
Speaker 7: I will, and I did, and I apologize any Spanish speaking.
Speaker 5: There's an advantage because I don't have to read the
Speaker 5: some titles, so that I was less lost that you were.
Speaker 5: I mean I was more focused, Yeah, because I agree
Speaker 5: it's not an easy film. It's very automatised, fragmented, and
Speaker 5: then if you don't have the same titles and everything.
Speaker 5: I mean, I was able to follow it, but I
Speaker 5: had to put my attention. I remember, and I have
Speaker 5: to find kind of milestone, so key key scenes. One
Speaker 5: of these key scenes is I remember the dinner scene
Speaker 5: where basically the parents said, like, you are not good enough.
Speaker 5: You are you're a child, you are not If you
Speaker 5: want my daughter, you have to come with a strength.
Speaker 2: No.
Speaker 5: You have to you know, you have to say your father,
Speaker 5: this is my wife.
Speaker 6: No.
Speaker 5: And if you don't come with this strength, you don't
Speaker 5: take my daughter. Which I find it a very beautiful
Speaker 5: scene and also a scene that tells you a little
Speaker 5: bit what is this film about. You know, you need
Speaker 5: to be a storm, a light bulb, you need to
Speaker 5: be a force of nature if you want to take
Speaker 5: my daughter. You know, I don't give my daughter to
Speaker 5: a push it to a weak guy that cannot face
Speaker 5: his father, his own father, you know, and that kind
Speaker 5: of key scenes. Obviously if you if you are able
Speaker 5: to kind of to understand it and watch it, it
Speaker 5: gives you a very good hint of what is kind
Speaker 5: of the ground of the film, which is this battle
Speaker 5: for passional love of independence, freedom. You know that we's
Speaker 5: a very universal topic now that I think in all
Speaker 5: the films of Coquila three films that I see, is
Speaker 5: always there no certain sort of revolution, no respect, no like.
Speaker 5: So that's why I think it's important, because he was
Speaker 5: belonging to a movement that try to reform. But in
Speaker 5: the movies themselves, they are talking about this, you know,
Speaker 5: revolutionary forces of Lave, revolutionary forces in.
Speaker 3: Well, both families are trying to dominate their children, right
Speaker 3: because I don't even meet Angela's family at one point,
Speaker 3: which you know, they're just trying to say, like you
Speaker 3: guys can need to control your own destiny and start
Speaker 3: following your family destinies. That's something they can't get married
Speaker 3: until the one father is dead.
Speaker 5: And the family of the girl of the woman at
Speaker 5: the end is such a controlative person that she uses
Speaker 5: elotic kind of attraction to physically councel the boy, not
Speaker 5: the husband, is like, you know, I mean you are
Speaker 5: not going with my daughter, You're going with me, which
Speaker 5: is like, this is crazy, you know. It's like so
Speaker 5: I think it's not so cryptic that it seems in
Speaker 5: the first place. It needs a little bit of time
Speaker 5: and also understanding that context now of Mexican and not dictatorship.
Speaker 5: But it's very important also to understand that, for instance,
Speaker 5: Coorkini some years before he was doing a film about
Speaker 5: the Olympics, and in the sixty years there was this
Speaker 5: terrible massacre of students in Latelloco. I don't know how many.
Speaker 5: I think it's like two hundred students die, you know,
Speaker 5: by the authorities. And that's the context where he makes
Speaker 5: a movie not only even been a conservative society, but
Speaker 5: a very repressive society that had been killed many students
Speaker 5: in the context of the Olympic Games. Now and and
Speaker 5: and Jeterson kerovinc Is like three years later, no where
Speaker 5: I think in my understanding, that was probably very much bubbling,
Speaker 5: very much boiling that Mexico didn't have dictatorship like in
Speaker 5: Argentina or in Chile or or or Racilia, but still
Speaker 5: have a very regressive government. Yes, yes, and I think
Speaker 5: we understand that we kind of maybe we don't understand
Speaker 5: the plot of the film line by line or by scene,
Speaker 5: but we understand, Okay, there is this brutal revolutionary force
Speaker 5: trying to say something here the young people they desire,
Speaker 5: they are gonna win, They are gonna you know, and
Speaker 5: I think all of this is there for sure.
Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean you talked about the mom trying to
Speaker 7: seduce Christian. I mean there's so many scenes of well,
Speaker 7: there's the one scene for sure where she leans over
Speaker 7: and he's just checking out her cleavage. And even when
Speaker 7: they're getting married, she's got the whole scoop neck thing
Speaker 7: and no bra and her boobs just very much on display.
Speaker 5: A very beautiful woman, by the way. I mean, it's
Speaker 5: like whoa. I mean, I don't know, It's like, I
Speaker 5: don't know who's more beautiful, the daughter or the mother.
Speaker 5: Now is like this is crazy.
Speaker 3: You show temptation once again, temptation to this veil.
Speaker 7: At the end of the movie, after they get married,
Speaker 7: Angela brings Christian into this room and there's this woman
Speaker 7: on the bed. Is that her mother is okay? So
Speaker 7: like her mother is almost like a sucky buss and
Speaker 7: she is the vampire so it's like, yeah, literally draining
Speaker 7: the youth and having trying to have that control over
Speaker 7: these young people.
Speaker 5: I mean, and if it is the myth of a
Speaker 5: if you know, and they fall from the paradise in
Speaker 5: the moment that they start to feel patching, since in
Speaker 5: the moment that they start to feel danger in that sense,
Speaker 5: it's very bunuellesque.
Speaker 3: It's connected with Adam and Eve along, you know, it's
Speaker 3: a direct connection.
Speaker 5: Yeah, exactly. I mean it's like you fall into the
Speaker 5: into the earth and then you start living, you know, jealousy,
Speaker 5: desires and this is this is there not in this
Speaker 5: case only love and kind of only pure love can
Speaker 5: take you back to the paradise. That I think in
Speaker 5: Corky is this revolutionary force. Passion can be used for
Speaker 5: good and for bad. You know, in the movies it
Speaker 5: can take you to the to the vampire, to the grave,
Speaker 5: to the or it can take you to your love
Speaker 5: to be low. And I think in and and the movies,
Speaker 5: I al wish. I don't think I'm going to see
Speaker 5: the other two that I don't I haven't seen, but
Speaker 5: I seen it. You know that that there is a
Speaker 5: passion and this this is strong desires are not using.
Speaker 5: They are used in a very natural way, sometimes for
Speaker 5: good and sometimes and then it's it's up to the
Speaker 5: to the real law and to the real you know.
Speaker 5: How can I say, like beauty of the characters and
Speaker 5: internal goods, that what you can recruits the paradise to
Speaker 5: that revolution. And I think it's there. The temptation is
Speaker 5: there for the for this Christian that likes the daughter
Speaker 5: but likes the mother as well, so that it is
Speaker 5: a temptation and it's up to him to resolve that equation,
Speaker 5: but without abandoning, without repression. In the moment that you
Speaker 5: kind of cancel the repression, you open to this wall
Speaker 5: of desires. Very dangerous because you can get lost. But
Speaker 5: I think it's also a metaphor of that revolution and
Speaker 5: that the young people is like, don't live with repression.
Speaker 5: Get away around the repression. It's going to be dangerous.
Speaker 5: Drugs are there. You know, freedom it's not coming. It's
Speaker 5: coming with a high price. You know, freedom comes with
Speaker 5: a lot of dangers. You know, you can the revolution
Speaker 5: can be railed, you can be killed in the square
Speaker 5: of Tate local you can be you know. But at
Speaker 5: the same time, it's the only way, repression doesn't bring
Speaker 5: anything good. So I think it's a There is a beautiful,
Speaker 5: very beautiful core in the movies that is this question
Speaker 5: of freedom and the dangers of freedom and the dangers
Speaker 5: of the temptations. It's beautiful in mind what I seen,
Speaker 5: at least, you know, even if I don't understand.
Speaker 7: Yeah, I definitely won't claim to understand this stuff. It
Speaker 7: just poses a lot of interesting questions. I mean, the
Speaker 7: whole idea of like Eve being the first creature and
Speaker 7: her creating Adam. I don't know if that's just because
Speaker 7: Corkiti's daughter was older than the son, so it wouldn't
Speaker 7: make much sense for the little er, you know, the
Speaker 7: little boy to create this more grown girl, because it
Speaker 7: plays into the whole thing of the father dies. Christian's
Speaker 7: father dies, and then that frees him up to get
Speaker 7: married to Angela, and by that time he's got the
Speaker 7: bite marks on his neck, so it's like, okay, it
Speaker 7: feels like he's already had a relationship with the mother,
Speaker 7: and yeah, it's like here we are with the father dies,
Speaker 7: the mother the conqueror, and then cut back to you know,
Speaker 7: the paradise scene again with that really kind of amazing
Speaker 7: helicopter shot of the two kids walking this path in
Speaker 7: the desert. I'm like, where the hell is this path
Speaker 7: in this desert? And it's just such a stark landscape. Yeah,
Speaker 7: and then like the Hallelujah chorus plays and the sun's
Speaker 7: sun is either rising or setting. It's just very very striking,
Speaker 7: and I'm like, yeah, I don't understand it one hundred percent,
Speaker 7: but yeah, I had an okay time with this movie.
Speaker 7: It wasn't what I was hoping for necessarily, but it
Speaker 7: definitely was like all right, it held my attention and
Speaker 7: then it did open up other corkities for me, so
Speaker 7: I'm like, okay, yeah, and I have to say, like, like,
Speaker 7: maybe I made a wrong choice talking about angels and
Speaker 7: cherubs rather than you know, desires or Pavnuzio Santo or
Speaker 7: any of these, but like, yeah, it's a good place
Speaker 7: to start because it's his start. It's his first feature.
Speaker 5: No, he's the first. But really was googling and I
Speaker 5: seen it. You know that flat Loco was some months
Speaker 5: after the Olympics, and it was it's still not there
Speaker 5: is between two hundred and five hundred people die. Young
Speaker 5: people die, know, so you don't really that's the price
Speaker 5: of freedom. That is in it's in his movie, is
Speaker 5: not the price of freedom, not like these student's protesting
Speaker 5: going there and being massacred. Still is not clear how
Speaker 5: many people disappeared, because you know, the army took the
Speaker 5: bodies and we don't know yet, like how many people
Speaker 5: were reing total brutal repression of the Mexican army. So
Speaker 5: it's really like they make the film like two years later,
Speaker 5: you know, with this really and it's the price of freedom,
Speaker 5: you know, and I see it in the in that.
Speaker 3: That really in that movie.
Speaker 5: It's not like in the case, is that the old
Speaker 5: generation bumper rising the young people, you know, like it's
Speaker 5: it's really, it's really horrible.
Speaker 3: I'm glad you're here to explain it to me, because
Speaker 3: that was about forty percent understanding it.
Speaker 5: I mean, it's a connection that came back to me,
Speaker 5: the king to me. But and I don't know. Maybe
Speaker 5: you ask Corkida, do you have the massacre in mind?
Speaker 5: Maybe say no, but it's impossible no, because it was
Speaker 5: something very commented and he created. He created a whole movement.
Speaker 5: The movement was created before, but the student movement against corruption,
Speaker 5: against and and and there was there was a this
Speaker 5: is a milestone. I mean, it's a it's a moment
Speaker 5: in the Mexican contemporary history, and nobody can't forget. Nobody
Speaker 5: forgot now, you know. And if you add, you know,
Speaker 5: this political context of student revolution to the type of
Speaker 5: films and to this movement, I mean, I find it now.
Speaker 5: I opened it, and it must be something you know
Speaker 5: about the old and the new decadency versus the these
Speaker 5: young people trying to to you know, make make thingsvolve.
Speaker 3: No one aspect. I did appreciate that I can't really
Speaker 3: talked much about, is the use of sound and music
Speaker 3: to drive the platforward as opposed to dialogue or that
Speaker 3: sort of thing. You know, when you have as a
Speaker 3: crickets at the beginning and then you have like the
Speaker 3: musical interludes and just the variance of music and sound
Speaker 3: that it uses throughout the movie. I found that very interesting.
Speaker 3: I could at least appreciate that to a large degree
Speaker 3: because it really did keep me invested. Now, even in
Speaker 3: that long dinner scene that seemed to go on forever.
Speaker 3: You know, music and sound was very prominent. Sim Arndick.
Speaker 7: Because Nacho Mendez's score is easy to get, very easy
Speaker 7: to get, like I've bought it on vinyl. I have
Speaker 7: a copy over here, and then you can go out
Speaker 7: to Amazon Music and buy the whole soundtrack downloaded on
Speaker 7: MP three if you want to. Not a problem whatsoever.
Speaker 7: It's right there for us. So the soundtrack lived farther
Speaker 7: than the movie has, I think, And it's interesting to
Speaker 7: me too. I had no idea, Miguel about the sixty
Speaker 7: eight massacre of these students. I mean, I always talk
Speaker 7: about nineteen sixty eight. People are probably tired of me
Speaker 7: talking about it, But I look at it more at
Speaker 7: the European angle and the American angle, not the Mexican angle.
Speaker 7: So I think about, you know, May sixty eight, with
Speaker 7: the protests in France. I think about the many riots
Speaker 7: that we had here in the United States starting in
Speaker 7: sixty eight, well, not starting, continuing, really really being coming
Speaker 7: to the fore in sixty eight, really coming to a head,
Speaker 7: you know.
Speaker 3: And I talk about that.
Speaker 7: I was not aware of that. And I'm sure you know,
Speaker 7: the whole thing of the Olympics and the whole world's
Speaker 7: eyes being on Mexico City in sixty eight, it was probably, oh, no,
Speaker 7: we have to really show force because I mean, the
Speaker 7: Olympics become this real hot bed. I mean they have
Speaker 7: been for a long damn time, and you think about
Speaker 7: Jesse Owens and things, but like, I mean the stuff
Speaker 7: that happened in Munich and these things. But yeah, I
Speaker 7: did not know about the sixty eight massacre. So that's
Speaker 7: that's fascinating. I'm gonna have to more into that.
Speaker 5: Yes, me too, because when I was I was living
Speaker 5: in Mexico one year. This is something very it's still
Speaker 5: very hot the topic because he was really there's still
Speaker 5: disappearing people, you know, that people families that they didn't
Speaker 5: recoup the bodies and everything, and it's just a very
Speaker 5: hot topic. But I although, you know, only because it's
Speaker 5: now coming back to this context in the Mexican history
Speaker 5: and new movements in art, that he can find a relation.
Speaker 5: I think I read it somewhere. But then they came
Speaker 5: and said, oh, okay, that's true. That's true that the
Speaker 5: massacre was like two years one year before he started
Speaker 5: the shooting, no something like that, and must be probably
Speaker 5: influenced because before he didn't make any any film, noise
Speaker 5: more seventies when he started.
Speaker 7: I mean, I'm sure that the US has disappeared people before,
Speaker 7: but now it's really becoming a very popular thing. I mean,
Speaker 7: we are just hearing people like crazy these days, whether
Speaker 7: they go to jail and San Salvador or you know,
Speaker 7: one time obey. But now America has joined with this
Speaker 7: whole idea of just disappearing, you know, potentially threatening people
Speaker 7: with fake tattoos on their hands. You know, it's great,
Speaker 7: it's a great time to be alive.
Speaker 5: It's true. And I was talking with my precisely too.
Speaker 5: I always before the podcast, like to you notice my ideas.
Speaker 5: And I were like talking yesterday with my director of photography, Ralzio,
Speaker 5: about movements and the student movements, and you know, because
Speaker 5: what is again is elected to see these films in
Speaker 5: a certain movement in the center and context. And I
Speaker 5: was we were thinking if there are movements nowadays or not,
Speaker 5: you know, like there are many political movements that are
Speaker 5: these movements bringing also certain esthetics, you know, like us.
Speaker 5: And we were mentioning parally to the new Mexican cinema
Speaker 5: Brazilian Tropical and the new Brazilian cinema. No this size
Speaker 5: the noble back in France, but in the context of
Speaker 5: Latin American cinematoialphic and it's something that I don't know
Speaker 5: very much. And through Corki and through this group of
Speaker 5: Noosine and my recent trip to Brazil, I really want
Speaker 5: now to explore, you know, like this relation between new cinema,
Speaker 5: revolutionary you know, group of students protest and in the
Speaker 5: context of the sixty eight sixty eight or sixties movements,
Speaker 5: late sixties movement, which is very, very, very interesting. So
Speaker 5: thanks to Porkidi, it made me go into that direction,
Speaker 5: like it's discovering a little bit more the you know,
Speaker 5: the new cinemas of Latin America.
Speaker 3: Even though it's you know, like I said, it wasn't
Speaker 3: for me. Is the way I always like to phrase
Speaker 3: it when it's something that doesn't speak to me personally.
Speaker 3: I think there's a lot in here to break down
Speaker 3: and kind of go through, and if it creates it's
Speaker 3: an excitement about a filmmaker that you don't really know,
Speaker 3: I think you should at least check out his work.
Speaker 7: All Right, We're going to take a break and play
Speaker 7: a preview for next week's show right after these brief messages.
Speaker 5: Even pain when.
Speaker 4: May come into the world of births. So that's feeling
Speaker 4: it should be pain at the end of it. So
Speaker 4: transfiguration the completion of an equation. It is the final
Speaker 4: measure of bravery, to stand up to death.
Speaker 3: Exquisite anguish. That's right.
Speaker 7: We'll be back next week with a look at Johnny
Speaker 7: Depp's sole directorial credit, The Brave. Until then, I want
Speaker 7: to think my co hosts Erin and Miguel. So, Aaron,
Speaker 7: what is the latest with you these days?
Speaker 3: The Brave is an interesting movie, so that's cool. I
Speaker 3: look forward to hearing that one. I am still doing
Speaker 3: The Hollywood Outsider. It's weekly podcast on film and television
Speaker 3: comes out every Friday now and that's a Hollywood After
Speaker 3: dot com. And I do a true crime based podcast
Speaker 3: as well, where we look at the truth behind films
Speaker 3: that are inspired by true stories. Is called Inspired by
Speaker 3: a True Story. That's also you can find out at
Speaker 3: the Hollywood After dot Com. And also be presenting Hitchcock
Speaker 3: where we look at Hitchcock films. We've done all Hitchcock films.
Speaker 3: Now we're doing hitchcocky and films. And Miguel, how about yourself?
Speaker 5: Well, I'm finishing my tour with my latest movie and
Speaker 5: finished summer and I've been recently to a very nice
Speaker 5: festival in Brazil Fantast four and Genre Fast and going
Speaker 5: this tomorrow, I'm going to build bout another General Fast
Speaker 5: and yeah, I'm really looking forward to for new products.
Speaker 5: And I'm started to text to these strips and other
Speaker 5: things that I'm reading. We were mentioned the other day
Speaker 5: like Mickey Mouse, the sixties corporative, corp corporative or corporations
Speaker 5: in the in the US, and how that kind of
Speaker 5: reflects in Latin America. That's something may be very interesting
Speaker 5: to discore and to work with for the next months.
Speaker 3: I've heard about that festival in bill Bowen. It sounds amazing.
Speaker 5: Yes, yes, there are like two or three genre fin
Speaker 5: festivals in Spain. The biggest one is Sea Chess obviously
Speaker 5: and one of the first in the World's fifty years
Speaker 5: old Chess, so very nice festival. But there are other
Speaker 5: small ones like one in Maraga, very nice one, and
Speaker 5: this one in Bilbao.
Speaker 7: I'm best of luck to you, Recolect, Thank you so much. Well,
Speaker 7: thank you again guys for being on the show. Thanks
Speaker 7: to everybody for listening. If you want to hear more
Speaker 7: of me shooting off my mouth, check out some of
Speaker 7: the other shows.
Speaker 3: That I work on.
Speaker 7: They are all available at weird waymedia dot com. Thanks
Speaker 7: especially to our Patreon community. If you want to join
Speaker 7: the community, visit patreon dot com slash Projection Booth. Every
Speaker 7: donation we get helps the Projection Booth take over the world.
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