WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.040 --> 00:00:09.720 Oh he is books it shoot. People say good money 2 00:00:09.759 --> 00:00:10.599 to see this movie. 3 00:00:10.919 --> 00:00:13.560 When they go out to a theater, they want cold sodas, 4 00:00:13.880 --> 00:00:17.199 pop popcorn and no monsters in the protection booth. 5 00:00:17.359 --> 00:00:19.519 Everyone pretend podcasting isn't boring. 6 00:00:50.600 --> 00:00:51.520 For the astro. 7 00:00:52.000 --> 00:00:55.200 Look at you took that song? Everything look so. 8 00:00:55.799 --> 00:00:57.240 Y'all know, looks up from out. 9 00:01:02.600 --> 00:01:12.480 Somebody nobody love. 10 00:01:25.560 --> 00:01:32.879 Like we love you? 11 00:01:36.000 --> 00:02:10.719 Why I see. 12 00:01:56.959 --> 00:01:57.200 You know? 13 00:01:58.200 --> 00:02:02.480 No looking back? 14 00:02:09.560 --> 00:02:32.400 Angela pray. 15 00:02:34.599 --> 00:02:34.719 More. 16 00:02:40.520 --> 00:02:42.759 Welcome to the projection booth. I'm your host, Mike White. 17 00:02:42.840 --> 00:02:44.759 Join me once again, is mister Aaron Peterson. 18 00:02:45.560 --> 00:02:47.400 Hello, got to be back. 19 00:02:47.800 --> 00:02:51.120 Also joining us, says mister Miguel Janso, Hello, how are you? 20 00:02:52.039 --> 00:02:55.520 We continue our look at rare, underseen or lost films 21 00:02:55.560 --> 00:02:59.319 with a look at Raphael Korkidies Angels and Cherubs, released 22 00:02:59.360 --> 00:03:02.039 in either nineteen seventy one or seventy two, depending on. 23 00:03:02.080 --> 00:03:02.560 Where you look. 24 00:03:03.120 --> 00:03:07.319 This was Korkidi's feature directorial debut. He often served as 25 00:03:07.439 --> 00:03:12.680 a cinematographer for other directors, including Machtezuma on La Manchion 26 00:03:12.800 --> 00:03:16.879 de la Cora and Howderowski on El Topo, Fondo Elis 27 00:03:17.199 --> 00:03:20.879 and The Holy Mountain. Corkiiti also worked quite often with 28 00:03:21.039 --> 00:03:25.159 screenwriter Carlos Yes Gus, and this was their first outing. 29 00:03:25.360 --> 00:03:29.520 It is the story of and Adam and Ekal told 30 00:03:29.919 --> 00:03:33.639 through some sort of surrealistic point of view. Will definitely 31 00:03:33.800 --> 00:03:36.919 be getting in here and getting into the details as 32 00:03:37.000 --> 00:03:39.319 much as we can. I don't know if we can 33 00:03:39.400 --> 00:03:42.960 spoil this film might actually be better if you watch 34 00:03:43.039 --> 00:03:45.800 this one after hearing this talk. The movie is available 35 00:03:46.199 --> 00:03:49.800 on YouTube or Lisa was recently, and the usual bootleg 36 00:03:49.960 --> 00:03:53.639 haunts like DVD. Lady Aaron, what did you think of 37 00:03:53.800 --> 00:03:54.840 Angels and Cherups? 38 00:03:55.319 --> 00:03:56.680 I don't know if you sture to start with me. 39 00:03:56.800 --> 00:04:03.120 I film this surrealist, very artistic in many ways, and 40 00:04:03.800 --> 00:04:08.879 not very good. No, I just I struggled with I mean, 41 00:04:08.919 --> 00:04:13.080 I think I understood the the visual narrative as was 42 00:04:13.159 --> 00:04:15.479 being told. It felt much more told than visuals and 43 00:04:16.120 --> 00:04:20.639 musical overtones than it was necessarily in dialogue of story beats. 44 00:04:20.680 --> 00:04:23.040 But it was it just it just didn't work for me. 45 00:04:23.199 --> 00:04:27.040 I felt like it was a little disjointed and even 46 00:04:27.079 --> 00:04:30.079 too vague for what it was trying to do, I guess. 47 00:04:30.639 --> 00:04:31.759 And Michael, how about yourself? 48 00:04:31.959 --> 00:04:35.360 Well, yeah, it was a very greatest feelience. I mean, 49 00:04:36.000 --> 00:04:38.160 when I watch a movie, try to a little bit 50 00:04:38.279 --> 00:04:41.360 understand what is it coming from and what is the 51 00:04:41.439 --> 00:04:46.439 context is made and a movement or historical moment. No, 52 00:04:46.600 --> 00:04:50.439 And in that sense, I watched it first without reading 53 00:04:50.600 --> 00:04:53.519 very much about Corkiti. You know, I knew what you 54 00:04:53.600 --> 00:04:57.079 were mentioned that he was a DP director of photography 55 00:04:57.199 --> 00:05:01.560 of Hoderovski and that he me a hint of course 56 00:05:01.759 --> 00:05:05.759 of where to go on. And I found many interesting 57 00:05:05.879 --> 00:05:10.720 things in the film, like unfortunately the copy is you know, 58 00:05:11.000 --> 00:05:13.839 is a print. It was kind of a video print, 59 00:05:14.000 --> 00:05:17.120 not the original sixteen millimeters, so it's difficult to appreciate. 60 00:05:18.040 --> 00:05:22.399 A very beautiful and very mystic direction of photography together 61 00:05:22.519 --> 00:05:25.720 with the landscapes which are very much of our ruins, 62 00:05:26.040 --> 00:05:30.319 ruins and abandoned places and decademy places, So that gives 63 00:05:30.360 --> 00:05:33.319 a lot of texture, a lot of meaning to the story. 64 00:05:34.040 --> 00:05:36.879 And I found it that very interesting. And then I 65 00:05:37.040 --> 00:05:42.839 start after watching it, I start reading a little bit 66 00:05:42.959 --> 00:05:46.199 more about where is Korkidi coming from and where is 67 00:05:46.279 --> 00:05:51.480 this film coming from? So I think giving giving to 68 00:05:51.600 --> 00:05:54.480 the audience a little bit more of context and linking 69 00:05:54.600 --> 00:05:57.079 this film to other films from the same time, I 70 00:05:57.160 --> 00:06:00.240 think they will probably appreciate it a little bit more 71 00:06:00.360 --> 00:06:05.800 and understand a little bit more the type of you know, 72 00:06:06.000 --> 00:06:08.160 narrative and cinematography at Sentinel. 73 00:06:08.839 --> 00:06:11.199 Yeah, it's a very interesting film, and yeah, I totally agree. 74 00:06:11.240 --> 00:06:14.439 I imagine that a original print of this is going 75 00:06:14.519 --> 00:06:18.360 to look really good. I mean, obviously he's a cinematographer 76 00:06:18.439 --> 00:06:22.079 by trade. This is well, it's not his directorial debut. 77 00:06:22.160 --> 00:06:25.240 He also made it short before this. Some people call 78 00:06:25.279 --> 00:06:29.839 it Mexico sixty eight instantantaneous. Instantaneous, I guess is the 79 00:06:30.199 --> 00:06:35.120 word in English. And that also is really interesting that 80 00:06:35.199 --> 00:06:37.839 one moves so quickly, and some of the other films 81 00:06:37.879 --> 00:06:41.000 that he has done move a lot faster. This one 82 00:06:41.120 --> 00:06:46.800 is much more contemplative, much slower, just a few settings. 83 00:06:47.319 --> 00:06:50.000 Really likes to use the desert as a setting, and 84 00:06:50.399 --> 00:06:53.199 this one starts with that. With this Adam and eve tail, 85 00:06:53.600 --> 00:06:55.040 I was kind of hoping that it would stay with 86 00:06:55.079 --> 00:06:57.879 the anim and eve Tail even longer, even though it 87 00:06:57.959 --> 00:07:00.839 was well, it wasn't silent because there's a voiceover in 88 00:07:00.959 --> 00:07:03.759 that part, and I'm guessing that that satan. So we 89 00:07:03.879 --> 00:07:06.240 start with this whole fall from Grace thing, and then 90 00:07:06.319 --> 00:07:09.759 we move quite a few one hundred years and I'm 91 00:07:09.839 --> 00:07:13.120 guessing this is more. It feels more like medieval times, 92 00:07:13.279 --> 00:07:15.920 even though there is some modernism to it. I mean, 93 00:07:15.959 --> 00:07:18.959 there's one character in here that looks exactly like Erik 94 00:07:19.040 --> 00:07:23.240 von Stroheim and something like grain delusion, and it's like, Okay, 95 00:07:23.319 --> 00:07:26.160 I didn't really expect that. But yeah, I'm very excited 96 00:07:26.240 --> 00:07:28.079 to try to unpack this movie a little bit more 97 00:07:28.160 --> 00:07:28.680 with you guys. 98 00:07:29.560 --> 00:07:31.639 It's very much a philosophical film, right. 99 00:07:32.560 --> 00:07:37.600 Landscapes are kind of amazing and when you really grubbed 100 00:07:37.639 --> 00:07:41.240 you at the beginning and you immediately are thrown into 101 00:07:41.399 --> 00:07:46.040 a very poetical narrative. But it's not I agree with Aaron, 102 00:07:46.319 --> 00:07:50.800 very very like, uh, you know, straightforward, and then you 103 00:07:50.920 --> 00:07:53.079 have to hint a bit what is the what is 104 00:07:53.120 --> 00:07:57.439 the film about? The The core I think is when 105 00:07:57.480 --> 00:08:01.040 I saw later on the sales the sires, I start 106 00:08:01.120 --> 00:08:04.240 to see a certain pattern, and this is a pattern 107 00:08:04.399 --> 00:08:07.360 of you know, the old the new versus the old. 108 00:08:07.959 --> 00:08:11.199 In this case is the fight of It's a very 109 00:08:11.240 --> 00:08:14.759 classical tale. Know, it's the fight of two lovers to 110 00:08:14.920 --> 00:08:18.639 escape from the class of the family. You know, of 111 00:08:18.839 --> 00:08:22.800 a very a very repressive father. So he takes Adam 112 00:08:22.879 --> 00:08:26.439 and if you know, it makes it like a medieval story, 113 00:08:26.560 --> 00:08:31.160 you know, Adam anif take the apple from the tree 114 00:08:31.720 --> 00:08:33.840 because they love each other, because they don't want to 115 00:08:33.879 --> 00:08:39.080 be eternal, and they offend God and this and they 116 00:08:39.200 --> 00:08:42.039 have to live as a normal person, you know. And 117 00:08:42.480 --> 00:08:44.960 it's kind of a parallelism with this kind of medieval 118 00:08:45.080 --> 00:08:49.039 tale where or it's not medieval, because you can see 119 00:08:49.080 --> 00:08:53.559 that it is perhaps more like eighteenth century post media 120 00:08:53.960 --> 00:08:57.000 and more modern. I don't know, it's it's very difficult 121 00:08:57.039 --> 00:09:00.720 to place the film because he uses many elements from 122 00:09:00.759 --> 00:09:04.720 many times. But there is this element of two lovers 123 00:09:05.200 --> 00:09:08.639 that offense father and they have to fight for their 124 00:09:08.879 --> 00:09:12.799 for their love and in many ways, so there is 125 00:09:12.879 --> 00:09:16.360 a film where desires are predominant. You know, they really 126 00:09:16.480 --> 00:09:21.240 really want to overcome this control of the father, this 127 00:09:21.399 --> 00:09:24.840 control of the society, to become free three lovers, you know. 128 00:09:25.399 --> 00:09:28.320 And I think if you go also to Desires and 129 00:09:28.480 --> 00:09:33.039 other movies by Korkidi, there is this revolutionary force that 130 00:09:33.240 --> 00:09:37.960 tries to leave behind the old and grab the new 131 00:09:38.120 --> 00:09:41.399 and get the new through the passion and through love 132 00:09:41.679 --> 00:09:43.720 and through desire. 133 00:09:44.799 --> 00:09:46.759 Yeah, it feels like there's a lot of themes here. 134 00:09:46.919 --> 00:09:47.080 Well. 135 00:09:47.159 --> 00:09:50.480 Obviously Christianity, starting with the whole Fall from Paradise thing. 136 00:09:50.799 --> 00:09:53.960 But then they have your main characters Andla and Christian 137 00:09:54.919 --> 00:09:57.840 pretty telling there as well. And there's a lot of 138 00:09:57.879 --> 00:10:01.240 stuff that's told through music. There are very musical scenes, 139 00:10:01.399 --> 00:10:04.600 very there's a whole scene in there with these monks. 140 00:10:04.960 --> 00:10:08.279 There's a Marionetta in here, and she seems to be 141 00:10:08.559 --> 00:10:12.879 being tried for heresy and has eventually burned at the stake. Yeah, 142 00:10:12.919 --> 00:10:15.120 a lot of a lot of Christian imagery going on 143 00:10:15.240 --> 00:10:17.559 through this whole thing. But then also I think a 144 00:10:17.639 --> 00:10:20.960 lot of class stuff as well. Just it feels like 145 00:10:21.120 --> 00:10:25.759 Christian isn't as wealthy or well to do, I suppose 146 00:10:25.840 --> 00:10:28.759 as Angela. It feels like that might be playing into 147 00:10:28.840 --> 00:10:31.879 this too. It's not quite Romeo and Juliet. Does it 148 00:10:31.919 --> 00:10:35.080 feel like the houses hate each other the families hate 149 00:10:35.080 --> 00:10:37.480 each other. But yeah, there's definitely that kind of starcross 150 00:10:37.600 --> 00:10:40.960 lover we have to get away from my overbearing father 151 00:10:41.279 --> 00:10:44.440 type of thing. But both of the fathers seem kind 152 00:10:44.480 --> 00:10:47.240 of overbearing. But I wouldn't say that the mothers are 153 00:10:47.279 --> 00:10:49.559 slouches either. I mean the mother, one of the mothers, 154 00:10:49.759 --> 00:10:53.600 Angela's mother really is, you know, asking quite a lot 155 00:10:53.679 --> 00:10:55.120 of Christian throughout the film. 156 00:10:55.799 --> 00:10:58.519 Yes, it's almost well we don't want to spoil it, 157 00:10:58.639 --> 00:11:02.279 but it's a little bit bumped as well. This sucks 158 00:11:02.399 --> 00:11:05.679 the life of you know. So yeah, there is this 159 00:11:05.960 --> 00:11:08.919 presence of the all no sucking the life and the 160 00:11:09.120 --> 00:11:12.360 energy of the young people that wants to you know, 161 00:11:12.679 --> 00:11:16.639 desire and love and they have an erotic as far 162 00:11:16.679 --> 00:11:19.159 as I see in the three films that I see, 163 00:11:19.240 --> 00:11:23.639 there is this erootic force very strong in in Corky, 164 00:11:23.759 --> 00:11:26.559 you know, and he likes to portray it naked bodies 165 00:11:26.679 --> 00:11:31.720 and desire, desired bodies, know, and and and it's very 166 00:11:31.759 --> 00:11:35.159 interesting for me because it just apostes and also in 167 00:11:35.879 --> 00:11:39.639 Angels and Carabins, it just apostes this very kind of 168 00:11:39.919 --> 00:11:46.600 decadent spaces like charges, ruins, things, constructions that are falling 169 00:11:46.639 --> 00:11:50.320 apart and are full of texture with this very much 170 00:11:50.399 --> 00:11:53.799 of a passion and you know, an erotic bodies. And 171 00:11:55.600 --> 00:11:58.919 I find it I find it interesting that you know 172 00:11:59.159 --> 00:12:02.679 that there's just the position Leana, they're only a director 173 00:12:02.720 --> 00:12:08.039 of photography, you know, can perhaps seen less something powerful. 174 00:12:08.679 --> 00:12:10.960 Yeah, it feels like there's a lot of tension between 175 00:12:11.679 --> 00:12:16.080 the religious and the sensual, the decadent like you're talking about. 176 00:12:16.159 --> 00:12:20.519 I mean, there's a lot of emotion going on between 177 00:12:20.679 --> 00:12:23.919 Angela and Christian, but they have to be very repressed 178 00:12:23.960 --> 00:12:26.799 through this whole thing. But like even the scenes of 179 00:12:26.919 --> 00:12:29.600 them going through the meadow, you know, which should be 180 00:12:29.919 --> 00:12:34.000 very joyous kind of thing, but then they're very quiet. 181 00:12:34.679 --> 00:12:39.279 There's not that much dialogue in this movie. And I mean, 182 00:12:39.320 --> 00:12:41.559 I remember they're going through the force at one point 183 00:12:41.639 --> 00:12:44.519 holding hands, and they run across this talking about the 184 00:12:44.639 --> 00:12:47.039 religious angle of it. They run across this Jewish man 185 00:12:47.120 --> 00:12:51.240 who's in this wooden what slash cage. It looks like 186 00:12:51.320 --> 00:12:54.600 he's in a cage at first, but then you you know, 187 00:12:54.679 --> 00:12:57.440 the camera cuts and you see, I'm pretty sure that 188 00:12:57.639 --> 00:12:59.840 it's open on one side. It's almost more like a 189 00:13:00.600 --> 00:13:03.039 like a hut or what is it in the Jewish 190 00:13:03.039 --> 00:13:06.600 wedding story, like the huppah, you know, just it's like 191 00:13:06.679 --> 00:13:09.960 this makeshift tent that this guy has. And then there 192 00:13:10.000 --> 00:13:14.039 are these people that are throughout the entire film, where 193 00:13:14.399 --> 00:13:18.000 there will be little groups of it looks like they're women. Again, 194 00:13:18.120 --> 00:13:20.480 can't really make out all the details in this print, 195 00:13:20.559 --> 00:13:23.039 but looks like they're women, and they're always wearing black. 196 00:13:23.120 --> 00:13:26.000 They kind of remind me of all the mothers from 197 00:13:26.120 --> 00:13:29.600 like the Shuji Teriyama films, like a pastoral to die 198 00:13:29.639 --> 00:13:31.639 in country. You know, it's just like they're always in 199 00:13:31.720 --> 00:13:33.919 the back kind of hanging out, or sometimes they'll be 200 00:13:34.039 --> 00:13:37.679 in that kind of courtroom setting just standing around. 201 00:13:37.879 --> 00:13:39.240 And I'm not sure. 202 00:13:39.120 --> 00:13:41.519 Exactly what these folks are doing, but they're like this 203 00:13:41.679 --> 00:13:42.879 ever presence. 204 00:13:43.159 --> 00:13:45.799 Worshipers or judgment, something along those lines. 205 00:13:45.799 --> 00:13:51.159 I mean, yes, it's a very also classical. In the stain, 206 00:13:51.679 --> 00:13:56.919 there's a woman in black, yes, for supperson mourners, you know, 207 00:13:57.120 --> 00:14:00.759 and before it was not on the in towns you 208 00:14:00.840 --> 00:14:04.120 can find them very easily, you know, there's this woman 209 00:14:04.240 --> 00:14:08.399 almost like a taliban, not anymore, but you know, even 210 00:14:08.519 --> 00:14:11.559 after the Spanish Civil War not still you were going 211 00:14:11.639 --> 00:14:14.240 to the town and this woman totally dress in black 212 00:14:14.679 --> 00:14:17.840 and you can even see the face and very you know, 213 00:14:18.039 --> 00:14:21.639 dark and you know, with that very strong presence. 214 00:14:21.720 --> 00:14:21.840 You know. 215 00:14:22.320 --> 00:14:24.759 I think the film has a lot of these images. 216 00:14:24.960 --> 00:14:28.879 We can go later on maybe to try to understand 217 00:14:29.240 --> 00:14:31.960 or what I understood or what we understood that where 218 00:14:31.960 --> 00:14:35.759 are these images coming? I think is the Catholic imaginary 219 00:14:35.840 --> 00:14:39.159 or imaginary sorry of Mexico or Spain, and you know 220 00:14:39.240 --> 00:14:45.039 this imaginary is there that kind of versus the new blood, 221 00:14:45.279 --> 00:14:50.480 kind of some sort of exploitation, you know, new blood, 222 00:14:50.559 --> 00:14:53.600 new energy. And I don't think it's a coincidence. I 223 00:14:53.679 --> 00:15:00.279 think obviously Gorkidy was you know, was well in form 224 00:15:00.440 --> 00:15:03.200 of what was happening in the world cinema and what 225 00:15:03.440 --> 00:15:07.519 was very He was very connected to to Holorowski, and 226 00:15:07.639 --> 00:15:10.120 he was very connected to many other filmmakers to the 227 00:15:10.879 --> 00:15:13.759 This magazine that they established in their early sixth is 228 00:15:13.799 --> 00:15:18.279 called Nova Cinema and the New Cinema or Novaine they 229 00:15:18.360 --> 00:15:22.399 call themselves group. I didn't know, but through the movie 230 00:15:22.480 --> 00:15:25.720 I started researching and I find out. So they were 231 00:15:25.799 --> 00:15:30.000 trying to reform also the the Mexican cinema, not through 232 00:15:30.120 --> 00:15:33.440 the through the novel back, through the French novel back, 233 00:15:33.639 --> 00:15:37.159 adapting it to the context of Mexico and to the 234 00:15:37.879 --> 00:15:43.759 Catholic repressive environment, but also full of not only repressive, 235 00:15:43.879 --> 00:15:48.320 but also full of mysticism and full of esoterism. No, 236 00:15:48.480 --> 00:15:52.639 that is also you can find in the theater place 237 00:15:52.759 --> 00:15:56.399 of Holorowski and Arabel. So yes, we can go there. 238 00:15:56.440 --> 00:15:59.039 But I think yes, these are kind of the main topics, 239 00:15:59.159 --> 00:16:06.679 not like repression, mysticism, Yes, desires, certain sexploitations. 240 00:16:07.279 --> 00:16:10.080 We should probably address the elephant in the room, which 241 00:16:10.159 --> 00:16:11.039 is the vamporism. 242 00:16:11.440 --> 00:16:13.240 Was that was a surprise. 243 00:16:16.039 --> 00:16:19.159 This movie has been talked about in terms of, oh, 244 00:16:19.320 --> 00:16:23.039 this Mexican vampire film, and I wouldn't put this as 245 00:16:23.080 --> 00:16:26.279 a vampire film, like right at the end, like eleventh 246 00:16:26.440 --> 00:16:28.960 hour is when they bring in the vamporism and then 247 00:16:29.080 --> 00:16:31.799 even knowing that and rewatching the film. 248 00:16:32.360 --> 00:16:36.039 It really no, no, not at all. 249 00:16:36.320 --> 00:16:39.279 If you put this in your book of vampire movies, 250 00:16:39.440 --> 00:16:43.360 come on, take it out. Maybe a little footnote or something. 251 00:16:43.600 --> 00:16:46.440 This doesn't need to be included in there. Yeah, it's 252 00:16:46.600 --> 00:16:49.080 it's not that crucial to the plot. 253 00:16:49.360 --> 00:16:52.159 I think it's just a representation of the ultimate evil, right, 254 00:16:52.159 --> 00:16:54.200 I mean it just feels like what they're going for 255 00:16:54.399 --> 00:16:57.559 here is just vampires immediately come to mind as that 256 00:16:57.759 --> 00:16:58.440 ultimate evil. 257 00:16:58.720 --> 00:17:01.519 Yes, he said, they are a you know, sucking your life, 258 00:17:01.600 --> 00:17:05.480 sucking your blood, trying to stick with you, to get 259 00:17:05.599 --> 00:17:09.279 you in the under your under their control. I think 260 00:17:09.319 --> 00:17:12.200 it talks more about all of this. It's definitely a 261 00:17:12.279 --> 00:17:15.880 esoteric movie, or all the corkyst movies are esothetic. So 262 00:17:16.200 --> 00:17:19.359 we understand a little where is it coming from? This 263 00:17:19.519 --> 00:17:26.160 is poterism almost like a uncertain similar similarities with Lucifer 264 00:17:26.359 --> 00:17:31.039 rising for instance, from isol a kind of anger, and 265 00:17:31.319 --> 00:17:35.119 so it's a psycho psychedelic times or already the seventies, 266 00:17:35.759 --> 00:17:38.480 and they are at the end the sounds of a 267 00:17:38.680 --> 00:17:43.440 very strong you know, esothetics that were you know, Araval 268 00:17:44.519 --> 00:17:48.279 and Hodrowski. You know that I wanted to reform the theater, 269 00:17:48.640 --> 00:17:51.759 the scene, know in Paris, so that you have to 270 00:17:52.359 --> 00:17:56.759 you know, see all these contexts started to start understanding. 271 00:17:56.880 --> 00:18:00.559 I think this this kind of vampire images, images of 272 00:18:00.759 --> 00:18:02.000 control power. 273 00:18:02.839 --> 00:18:05.799 Yeah, I don't know if Korkiiti would have considered himself 274 00:18:05.839 --> 00:18:08.880 a member of the Panic movement, but it definitely plays 275 00:18:08.920 --> 00:18:12.920 alongside of that and the whole I mean, the mysticism 276 00:18:13.119 --> 00:18:15.400 that there's a whole scene in here with tarot cards. 277 00:18:15.440 --> 00:18:17.680 I'm just like, okay, that's very Howderowski. 278 00:18:17.880 --> 00:18:21.000 You know, he loves the taro. That's all for me. 279 00:18:21.240 --> 00:18:25.240 Like Holy Mountains so influenced by the Taro. And yeah, 280 00:18:25.279 --> 00:18:29.400 it's interesting to have this very catholic movie with a 281 00:18:29.519 --> 00:18:31.799 tarot scene in it. And I'm like, okay, it's like 282 00:18:32.240 --> 00:18:36.240 people just kind of grasping for whatever is going to 283 00:18:36.519 --> 00:18:39.880 try to help them understand the world because they just 284 00:18:40.000 --> 00:18:43.119 don't get it, you know, whether it's praying to God 285 00:18:43.279 --> 00:18:45.039 or looking at cards and trying to figure out what 286 00:18:45.119 --> 00:18:46.480 the future is going to hold for us. 287 00:18:46.720 --> 00:18:48.759 I think, yes, I think it's the is in the 288 00:18:48.839 --> 00:18:53.920 wave because panical movement or mommental panicle was created in 289 00:18:54.920 --> 00:18:58.559 the early sixties, late fifties, early sixties, I think if 290 00:18:58.599 --> 00:19:03.480 I remember correctly, and it was basically the Rosky was 291 00:19:03.559 --> 00:19:09.039 already doing her his theater place in in Mexico. And 292 00:19:09.279 --> 00:19:12.200 but he was very, very fun of Aval of Ernanda Rawal, 293 00:19:12.279 --> 00:19:15.480 which is a Spanish guy that was in Mexico in 294 00:19:15.640 --> 00:19:19.559 the story in Paris, and he went to Paris to 295 00:19:20.720 --> 00:19:23.480 meet Arabal because he was performing his theater place. The 296 00:19:23.559 --> 00:19:27.720 theater place of Varraval were very strange, were very They 297 00:19:27.759 --> 00:19:31.000 were not dialogues. He wanted to come to the original 298 00:19:31.119 --> 00:19:34.000 mining of the theater. That's why it's called panic of 299 00:19:34.079 --> 00:19:39.119 It is from pan and and this is like the 300 00:19:39.240 --> 00:19:42.720 pan the god. And at the court of the theater 301 00:19:43.279 --> 00:19:48.279 is horror, love and astonishment, not these three elements that 302 00:19:48.440 --> 00:19:52.079 are very you know, shaking. You have to impress the audience. 303 00:19:52.119 --> 00:19:55.519 You have to get the audience totally out of you know, 304 00:19:55.759 --> 00:19:59.319 like the audience is not anymore as somebody that is 305 00:19:59.440 --> 00:20:03.079 coming to reflect on the text or to see a representation, 306 00:20:03.319 --> 00:20:07.440 but to see a happening kind of the first performance 307 00:20:07.640 --> 00:20:13.119 kind of artists or proto performance artists late fifties. So 308 00:20:13.640 --> 00:20:16.279 there is this kind of performatic experience, not that the 309 00:20:16.680 --> 00:20:21.400 audience goes and gets shaken by something that they cannot understand, 310 00:20:21.480 --> 00:20:25.000 and very esoteric forces that are coming to talk about 311 00:20:25.200 --> 00:20:30.440 the erotic forces that deadly forces, horror terror, horror forces. 312 00:20:31.319 --> 00:20:36.000 And I think I see it totally the continuation of that. 313 00:20:36.359 --> 00:20:40.160 I think I think Aubinez is a panic movie. Yes, 314 00:20:40.599 --> 00:20:42.480 I think it belongs. I don't know. I mean, I'm 315 00:20:42.519 --> 00:20:45.160 not an expert, but I read it like that. You know, 316 00:20:45.440 --> 00:20:48.680 maybe Colkid would say, no, it's not, but you can see, 317 00:20:48.799 --> 00:20:52.000 you can see the presence of this poetical view, the 318 00:20:52.119 --> 00:20:55.480 experience of the audience not and they're not doing a representation. 319 00:20:56.640 --> 00:21:00.440 I have been reading that Araval was very much inspired 320 00:21:00.480 --> 00:21:04.960 by our Todd and by the bal baliness with the 321 00:21:05.079 --> 00:21:09.519 ballet theater, where again there is nothing to represent, but 322 00:21:09.720 --> 00:21:12.839 something must happen in there. Not like a little bit 323 00:21:12.960 --> 00:21:16.240 like the bud ceremony, you know, where you get inside 324 00:21:17.000 --> 00:21:21.680 and then the the members of the of the colt 325 00:21:22.160 --> 00:21:25.680 start kind of being possessed by the different gods to 326 00:21:26.160 --> 00:21:30.359 have an esoteric experience, and when you finish this sootic experience, 327 00:21:30.440 --> 00:21:33.440 you have a knowledge, a new knowledge, like okay, I 328 00:21:33.599 --> 00:21:36.480 learned this, So I learned that you know, if you 329 00:21:36.720 --> 00:21:40.079 enter into that, they are they're made for that, not 330 00:21:40.480 --> 00:21:44.200 to have something a poetical experience that you don't grasp 331 00:21:44.440 --> 00:21:47.799 very much the story, but they take you, start taking 332 00:21:47.920 --> 00:21:52.720 you through through very strange and dark corners, and they 333 00:21:52.839 --> 00:21:55.799 try to shake you, and and so I yes, I will. 334 00:21:55.839 --> 00:21:58.319 I would say it's a would you would you say 335 00:21:58.359 --> 00:21:59.720 it's a Punnico movie? 336 00:21:59.880 --> 00:22:04.359 Or I saw more of that in his later stuff 337 00:22:04.519 --> 00:22:10.160 like Pafnuccio Santo like that movie. Felt like, Okay, this 338 00:22:10.519 --> 00:22:13.640 is definitely you know, what I would expect from somebody 339 00:22:13.680 --> 00:22:16.920 who worked with Howderowski. I mean, Kurkiitia has been a 340 00:22:17.000 --> 00:22:20.200 fascinating figure to me for years. I mean I actually 341 00:22:20.319 --> 00:22:23.680 tried to reach out a few years before he passed away, 342 00:22:23.920 --> 00:22:26.720 just to get an interview and just talk to him more. 343 00:22:26.839 --> 00:22:31.480 Because as far twenty twenty five. There's not a ton 344 00:22:31.559 --> 00:22:35.039 of stuff written about him in English, and it's kind 345 00:22:35.119 --> 00:22:39.400 of strange to me because he made four feature films 346 00:22:39.759 --> 00:22:43.880 and then interestingly turned to video and started to work 347 00:22:43.920 --> 00:22:47.119 in video as his medium, which is very unusual for 348 00:22:47.519 --> 00:22:51.880 that particular time, you know, a cinematographer turning to video 349 00:22:52.000 --> 00:22:55.920 when video was just not you know what it is today. 350 00:22:56.160 --> 00:22:58.359 You know, there are a lot of limitations, but he 351 00:22:58.559 --> 00:23:02.000 was having a good time, I think, playing with video, 352 00:23:02.319 --> 00:23:05.160 and some of his films like Let's figure Out the 353 00:23:05.400 --> 00:23:08.839 de la Pasceon like that one is interesting to watch 354 00:23:08.960 --> 00:23:11.079 to see, like, oh, okay, now he's in this whole 355 00:23:11.119 --> 00:23:15.160 different medium and doing this. But his four feature films 356 00:23:16.079 --> 00:23:19.799 absolutely gorgeous. I mean, you know, Aaron, see what you 357 00:23:20.079 --> 00:23:22.720 like about the plotting of this film, and I tend 358 00:23:22.759 --> 00:23:25.720 to agree with you. It's very slow, very contemplative. I mean, 359 00:23:25.759 --> 00:23:29.680 there's that dinner scene that goes on forever and nobody 360 00:23:29.799 --> 00:23:32.640 says anything, and I'm like, okay, this is interesting. I 361 00:23:32.720 --> 00:23:35.599 think I could maybe enjoicing this at a theater a 362 00:23:35.640 --> 00:23:38.119 little bit more than watching it at home, just to 363 00:23:38.480 --> 00:23:41.519 enjoy the experience and to see the image on a screen, 364 00:23:41.599 --> 00:23:44.759 you know, big screen. But yeah, I was just always 365 00:23:44.839 --> 00:23:48.319 fascinated by this guy because there was just so little 366 00:23:48.480 --> 00:23:52.839 written about him, even though his films are beautiful to 367 00:23:52.920 --> 00:23:56.119 look at, and it took so long for good versions 368 00:23:56.200 --> 00:23:59.039 of his films to be available. I don't want to 369 00:23:59.039 --> 00:24:01.400 say on video. I mean, these are video files that 370 00:24:01.480 --> 00:24:04.240 we're watching, but there aren't as far as I know, 371 00:24:04.680 --> 00:24:07.640 DVDs of these movies, blue rays of these movies. I 372 00:24:07.720 --> 00:24:11.440 don't know if anybody's ever released these officially on any 373 00:24:11.519 --> 00:24:15.279 sort of label, which is again just kind of a shame, 374 00:24:15.400 --> 00:24:18.799 like this whole you know, mini movement in Mexico that 375 00:24:19.079 --> 00:24:21.599 is completely you know, under the rug. I know he 376 00:24:21.799 --> 00:24:25.559 is more appreciated in Mexico, and there was a retrospective 377 00:24:25.839 --> 00:24:27.640 of his work. If you look out on YouTube, you 378 00:24:27.680 --> 00:24:30.440 can see all these clips and people talking about his movies. 379 00:24:31.039 --> 00:24:34.400 But you know that was from I think one festival, 380 00:24:35.200 --> 00:24:38.480 not necessarily a you know, global movement to let's pay 381 00:24:38.519 --> 00:24:40.119 some respect to Raphael Korkidi. 382 00:24:40.880 --> 00:24:43.279 Even though the movie wasn't for me and it's it's 383 00:24:43.759 --> 00:24:46.000 I find it a little too abstract and kind of 384 00:24:46.599 --> 00:24:49.759 all over the place ploty wise, you have to mind 385 00:24:49.799 --> 00:24:53.480 the confidence of any director that will commit to like. 386 00:24:53.799 --> 00:24:56.279 When I say philosophical, I mean sincerely, it's a very 387 00:24:56.319 --> 00:24:59.440 philosophical film. It's very you read into it what you 388 00:24:59.480 --> 00:25:01.079 want to read in to it. I'm sure he has 389 00:25:01.119 --> 00:25:03.920 a very specific view of what this is, but I 390 00:25:03.960 --> 00:25:06.039 don't think you're going to get five people that agree 391 00:25:06.079 --> 00:25:07.960 on what that view is. I don't think he would 392 00:25:08.000 --> 00:25:11.440 have five completely different interpretations. And I admire the confidence 393 00:25:11.480 --> 00:25:13.240 that it takes and make something like that. So even 394 00:25:13.279 --> 00:25:15.880 though maybe I didn't enjoy at the same level as 395 00:25:15.920 --> 00:25:19.119 you guys do, I appreciate what he put into it 396 00:25:19.200 --> 00:25:21.880 because it is it is something that it's obviously very 397 00:25:21.920 --> 00:25:25.319 specific and personal to him. The level of confidence it 398 00:25:25.359 --> 00:25:28.000 takes to make that is impressive and commit to it. 399 00:25:29.000 --> 00:25:31.079 It's just strange as well that yeah, I found it 400 00:25:31.240 --> 00:25:34.200 very strange because I tried to find interviews in Spanish. 401 00:25:34.720 --> 00:25:38.599