WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:01.439 It's going to be a windy and cool nights to 2 00:00:01.520 --> 00:00:04.120 night under a mainly cloudy sky. We'll have rain at times, 3 00:00:04.160 --> 00:00:06.480 which will be steady US near the coast, much of 4 00:00:06.559 --> 00:00:09.320 the time west of Boston will be dry, low tempter 5 00:00:09.400 --> 00:00:12.240 around fifty nine. We do have coastal flood advisories in 6 00:00:12.279 --> 00:00:14.279 effect all the way through Sunday evening with the storm 7 00:00:14.279 --> 00:00:16.760 system off to our south and high surf advisories are 8 00:00:16.760 --> 00:00:19.239 an effect through tomorrow, as it will be breezy and 9 00:00:19.280 --> 00:00:21.760 cool Tomorrow and Tomorrow night with clouds and some rain 10 00:00:21.800 --> 00:00:24.120 at times close to the coast. Couple of showers farther 11 00:00:24.199 --> 00:00:27.160 inland high sixty two Tomorrow, low fifty eight Tomorrow night, 12 00:00:27.440 --> 00:00:30.199 an early shower toward the Cape Island. Sunday otherwise breezy 13 00:00:30.199 --> 00:00:32.560 and cool with clouds and breaks of sun high sixty five, 14 00:00:32.960 --> 00:00:35.200 clouds and some sun Monday with the cool breeze, high 15 00:00:35.200 --> 00:00:38.079 again around sixty five. I'm accurate with the VideA reallotis 16 00:00:38.159 --> 00:00:40.759 Brian Hops at WBZ Boston's news radio. 17 00:00:41.079 --> 00:00:43.719 Life is full of amazing things, but sometimes it can 18 00:00:43.759 --> 00:00:46.840 feel overwhelming. Whatever you're going through. The nine eight eight 19 00:00:46.920 --> 00:00:49.960 lifeline is here, call or text nine to eight eight 20 00:00:50.039 --> 00:00:52.840 to get mental health support around the clock twenty four 21 00:00:52.880 --> 00:00:55.280 to seven. 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It's a medium 41 00:01:49.319 --> 00:01:51.640 hot or iced coffee and a bacon, egg and cheese 42 00:01:51.640 --> 00:01:54.239 sandwich and a side of hash browns for six bucks. 43 00:01:54.480 --> 00:01:56.000 America runs on Duncan. 44 00:01:57.599 --> 00:02:00.159 Let's get back now to Night Side with Dan Ray. 45 00:02:00.280 --> 00:02:03.719 I'm Al Griffith, WBZ, Boston's news radio. 46 00:02:04.879 --> 00:02:09.039 It's nice with Dan Ray on Boston. 47 00:02:10.879 --> 00:02:13.240 All right, welcome back, Thanks very much, Al Griffith. As 48 00:02:13.280 --> 00:02:16.439 we head toward what we're now in our ten o'clock hour, 49 00:02:16.520 --> 00:02:18.639 by the way, coming up at eleven tonight, in the 50 00:02:18.680 --> 00:02:21.919 twentieth hour we do we'll do an hour. You're a 51 00:02:21.960 --> 00:02:27.520 brush with celebrity. Everybody has met a celebrity during their life. Again, 52 00:02:27.599 --> 00:02:30.240 to some people a celebrity as a president. Some people 53 00:02:30.280 --> 00:02:33.759 it might be the local selectman or whomever. We love 54 00:02:33.800 --> 00:02:36.759 to hear your stories about how they treated you, the good, 55 00:02:36.800 --> 00:02:38.800 the bad, and the ugly. It's as simple. It's as 56 00:02:38.800 --> 00:02:44.479 simple as that. We're going to talk about the latest chapter, actually, 57 00:02:44.520 --> 00:02:47.360 what will be the next chapter in the Karen Reid case. 58 00:02:47.479 --> 00:02:53.680 I have with me tonight. Too well experienced lawyers here 59 00:02:54.159 --> 00:03:00.319 in the Boston area. William Kickham, who does criminal fence 60 00:03:00.400 --> 00:03:05.840 work and also deals with catastrophic on TWRT cases. Never 61 00:03:05.919 --> 00:03:08.560 quite heard it described that way, but Bill Kickham, Welcome 62 00:03:08.599 --> 00:03:12.039 to Nightside. Bill's practices out of the community of Westwood, 63 00:03:12.840 --> 00:03:13.960 Welcome Bill, how are you? 64 00:03:15.759 --> 00:03:16.840 How are you good? 65 00:03:16.879 --> 00:03:20.319 And Attorney Robert George, who has handled some extremely high 66 00:03:20.400 --> 00:03:23.159 profile cases and gentlemen, let me, Hi, Bob, how are 67 00:03:23.199 --> 00:03:23.560 you tonight? 68 00:03:24.599 --> 00:03:25.439 How are you doing Dan? 69 00:03:25.599 --> 00:03:27.439 I'm doing great, So let me kind of set the 70 00:03:27.479 --> 00:03:30.319 stage here. And I might be dead wrong on this. 71 00:03:30.319 --> 00:03:31.759 As a matter of fact, one lawyer told me the 72 00:03:31.840 --> 00:03:33.960 other night I was dead wrong on this. But for 73 00:03:34.039 --> 00:03:39.560 those who have followed the Karen Reid trial closely that 74 00:03:39.680 --> 00:03:43.479 sat on that trial told the judge in July that 75 00:03:43.520 --> 00:03:48.039 they were hung. The judge never inquired of the jury 76 00:03:48.199 --> 00:03:50.919 as to if they were hung on all three counts 77 00:03:50.960 --> 00:03:53.719 for which he was being charged, or if they had 78 00:03:53.759 --> 00:03:57.759 reached a verdict on one or more counts subsequent to that. 79 00:03:58.680 --> 00:04:01.240 The way this story has to developed is some of 80 00:04:01.280 --> 00:04:05.400 the jurors reached out to defense lawyers, and also I 81 00:04:05.439 --> 00:04:07.840 believe at least one juror reached out to the prosecution 82 00:04:08.000 --> 00:04:12.800 and said, hey, we had decided unanimously to dismiss the 83 00:04:12.919 --> 00:04:15.840 charge of second degree murder and the second charge of 84 00:04:16.120 --> 00:04:19.040 leaving the scene of an accident causing personal injury and death. 85 00:04:19.759 --> 00:04:23.879 They had voted to convictor on manslaughter, which was one count. 86 00:04:23.879 --> 00:04:27.360 So I don't know the truth of that, but the 87 00:04:27.439 --> 00:04:32.639 judge never inquired. And now the defense lawyers for Karen 88 00:04:32.720 --> 00:04:36.360 Reid have petitioned the State Supreme Court here in Massachusetts 89 00:04:36.360 --> 00:04:40.040 through a gatekeeper hearing. They were looking for a gate 90 00:04:40.839 --> 00:04:42.800 keeper what I call a gatekeeper hearing in front of 91 00:04:42.839 --> 00:04:46.639 a single justice. The single justice decided not to hold 92 00:04:46.639 --> 00:04:50.040 a hearing, but read the file and basically said, we'll 93 00:04:50.040 --> 00:04:52.519 have the full court sit on this case, hear this 94 00:04:52.600 --> 00:04:56.319 case sometime in November. It is to me a case 95 00:04:56.360 --> 00:04:59.439 of first impression. I'm going to ask both of these lawyers, 96 00:04:59.480 --> 00:05:03.120 who were more experience than I am, for sure, to 97 00:05:03.240 --> 00:05:07.439 tell me if they think the defendants have a chance 98 00:05:07.560 --> 00:05:11.120 in this case. Obviously, they're arguing that if a jury 99 00:05:11.199 --> 00:05:14.600 did sit and did reach a verdict on two of 100 00:05:14.639 --> 00:05:20.240 the counts, although those that those decisions never became a 101 00:05:20.319 --> 00:05:23.279 verdict and that they were handed into the court, should 102 00:05:23.399 --> 00:05:27.000 Karen Reid have to face a second trial on all 103 00:05:27.079 --> 00:05:29.439 three of these charges or should the two charges be 104 00:05:29.600 --> 00:05:32.800 dismissed and she just goes to trial on the manslaught 105 00:05:32.839 --> 00:05:35.319 of charge. Let me start off with you, Bill Kickham, 106 00:05:35.480 --> 00:05:38.480 give me your quick sense of it, and then we'll 107 00:05:39.000 --> 00:05:43.839 incorporate phone callers again. I think it's a really interesting case. 108 00:05:43.879 --> 00:05:46.399 I think it's a case to first impression. And I 109 00:05:46.439 --> 00:05:49.680 talked to one person familiar with the courts today who 110 00:05:49.720 --> 00:05:53.160 feels that her lawyers might have a shot on this. 111 00:05:53.279 --> 00:05:56.079 Go ahead, Bill, Well, if it's not a case of 112 00:05:56.160 --> 00:05:58.040 first impression, it's definitely. 113 00:05:59.519 --> 00:06:00.000 Impression. 114 00:06:00.560 --> 00:06:08.040 Now, Judge Tony justified her declaring mistrial because was not 115 00:06:08.160 --> 00:06:11.399 acquitted on any Jerry's lips, and she wasn't acquitted on 116 00:06:11.399 --> 00:06:12.120 any Jerusalem. 117 00:06:12.959 --> 00:06:15.519 Your your phone is not great, Rob, can you I'm 118 00:06:15.519 --> 00:06:18.120 gonna I'm going to ask Rob to try to clean 119 00:06:18.199 --> 00:06:22.279 up your phone because you're breaking up on us. So Rob, 120 00:06:22.360 --> 00:06:25.360 take take Bill and get his uh, get him on 121 00:06:25.399 --> 00:06:26.800 a different phone or a better phone. Let me go 122 00:06:26.839 --> 00:06:29.399 to Bob George, Bob, you know, I hope you you 123 00:06:29.519 --> 00:06:31.079 heard the way I set it up. I tried to 124 00:06:31.079 --> 00:06:34.879 set it up as neutrally as I could. What's what's 125 00:06:34.920 --> 00:06:37.240 your take on this? Did they is? Does she have 126 00:06:37.279 --> 00:06:38.279 a shot here? Do you think? 127 00:06:39.120 --> 00:06:39.360 Well? 128 00:06:39.759 --> 00:06:43.959 What you're calling down a gatekeeper, you know appeal? Is 129 00:06:43.959 --> 00:06:48.199 that basically a two eleven three. The argument is that 130 00:06:48.800 --> 00:06:51.439 Judge Canon, you know who's been a you know who 131 00:06:51.480 --> 00:06:53.360 is a defense lawyer for many years and now has 132 00:06:53.399 --> 00:06:57.560 been a judge for many years abused your discretion when 133 00:06:57.600 --> 00:07:00.319 she made her decision in this case, it's don't get 134 00:07:00.360 --> 00:07:03.959 me wrong. They look at the law, but they have 135 00:07:04.079 --> 00:07:08.920 to find that she she abused or abused or made 136 00:07:08.920 --> 00:07:15.079 a mistake in using her discretion and and and and deciding, Bob. 137 00:07:14.839 --> 00:07:17.759 I've quivered with discretion for a second. My question is, 138 00:07:18.360 --> 00:07:20.839 and maybe I'm seeing it incorrectly here and help me 139 00:07:20.879 --> 00:07:24.079 out if i am. I'm assuming that that that she 140 00:07:24.199 --> 00:07:27.399 could have said to the jury for person, are you 141 00:07:27.519 --> 00:07:31.920 hung on all three counts? Or have you made a 142 00:07:32.519 --> 00:07:35.319 have you come to a decision or a verdict on 143 00:07:35.639 --> 00:07:36.720 any of these counts? 144 00:07:37.480 --> 00:07:41.319 See, that's the lynchpin, you know. I the argument that 145 00:07:41.319 --> 00:07:44.839 Marty Weinberg's making on appeal, and that's that's lead. That's 146 00:07:44.920 --> 00:07:49.720 lead council. Now, so we got Marty Weinberg arguing that listen, 147 00:07:50.879 --> 00:07:55.240 you didn't you didn't ask the jury as to whether 148 00:07:55.319 --> 00:07:59.519 they had verdicts on all three counts, sorry, or what 149 00:07:59.519 --> 00:08:02.360 they were hung not all three counts. The problem is 150 00:08:02.839 --> 00:08:06.399 the jury reported that they were hung. It's all going 151 00:08:06.480 --> 00:08:10.519 to hang up on whether the SJAC decides whether or 152 00:08:10.600 --> 00:08:15.959 not Trial judges have to ask jurors when they come 153 00:08:16.000 --> 00:08:19.439 back hung after they come back hung three times yep. 154 00:08:19.639 --> 00:08:21.959 In other words, the first two times that he give them, 155 00:08:22.000 --> 00:08:25.879 as you know, the charge up what they call the 156 00:08:26.000 --> 00:08:31.040 dynamite charge. And so what she argued in what she argued, 157 00:08:31.079 --> 00:08:34.159 what she set out in her in her decision was 158 00:08:34.840 --> 00:08:39.559 she had is she quoted the defense as they argued 159 00:08:39.879 --> 00:08:45.639 once twice and three times that they wanted a mistrial declared. 160 00:08:46.240 --> 00:08:49.960 So it's it's not whether she declared the miss trail improperly. 161 00:08:50.480 --> 00:08:54.799 The question is whether or not she should have gone 162 00:08:54.919 --> 00:08:59.000 further in asking them whether they were hung on one, 163 00:08:59.159 --> 00:09:02.320 two or three g saying I don't have to do 164 00:09:02.360 --> 00:09:06.120 it unless you ask me to you, And that's what 165 00:09:06.200 --> 00:09:08.799 they're gonna have to decide. And in this state, if 166 00:09:08.840 --> 00:09:10.919 you look at the case law, and I'm not saying 167 00:09:10.919 --> 00:09:13.720 I know and I know the case laws experienced, but 168 00:09:13.799 --> 00:09:15.639 it's not like I looked at the case law before 169 00:09:15.679 --> 00:09:18.399 I came on talking to you. I can tell you 170 00:09:18.759 --> 00:09:23.279 that the SJAC will be load to stick their nose 171 00:09:23.360 --> 00:09:25.159 into what goes on in the jury room because that's 172 00:09:25.159 --> 00:09:27.519 what the case law says. I'm not saying they don't 173 00:09:27.559 --> 00:09:29.519 have a shot because they may look at this case 174 00:09:29.879 --> 00:09:34.480 and as half the world thinks Karen should only. 175 00:09:35.519 --> 00:09:37.440 Can I just jump in for a question, Bob, you 176 00:09:37.519 --> 00:09:42.440 said yes that the the SJAC is loathed to look 177 00:09:42.480 --> 00:09:46.200 at what went on in the jury room. I'm asking 178 00:09:46.679 --> 00:09:52.240 whether or not the the s JAC will establish a 179 00:09:52.320 --> 00:09:57.480 new practice if if if let us, they look at 180 00:09:57.480 --> 00:10:02.919 this case and they say, okay, it's her discretion and 181 00:10:03.320 --> 00:10:05.720 she there was no abuse of discretion here. 182 00:10:06.039 --> 00:10:09.919 She chanced, yes, Can I step in here for a moment. 183 00:10:11.320 --> 00:10:13.320 Let me just finish that point that I'll let you in, Okay. 184 00:10:13.480 --> 00:10:15.919 I'm just trying to say that that The question is 185 00:10:16.200 --> 00:10:18.840 might this court want to say we need to tighten 186 00:10:18.919 --> 00:10:22.159 up practice in the courtrooms and in multi count indictments. 187 00:10:22.519 --> 00:10:26.240 We want judges to ask juries to expedite and to 188 00:10:26.639 --> 00:10:31.639 move the system along and prevent a defendant from being 189 00:10:32.600 --> 00:10:37.679 put in a position where arguably they they're victim their 190 00:10:37.759 --> 00:10:40.399 due process to that because they're victim of a double jeopardy. 191 00:10:40.559 --> 00:10:41.600 Go ahead, go ahead, Billy. 192 00:10:41.399 --> 00:10:43.960 And they need to take a corrective step here. They 193 00:10:44.039 --> 00:10:47.120 may do that. I think it's less likely than more likely. 194 00:10:47.320 --> 00:10:50.720 But if they do, there's a phrase that's going to 195 00:10:50.759 --> 00:10:54.879 become famous and be used all over this case and 196 00:10:54.919 --> 00:11:00.879 all over mistake firmative obligation if they did say what 197 00:11:00.960 --> 00:11:04.399 you talked about the possibly coming out and saying that 198 00:11:04.600 --> 00:11:08.879 we're likely phrase it that a judge has an affirmative obligation. 199 00:11:09.440 --> 00:11:12.080 I'm not saying that presently a judge has that firm 200 00:11:12.159 --> 00:11:14.799 the obligation, but if they were to make such a change, 201 00:11:15.519 --> 00:11:19.000 likely obscured in terms of that, a judge has an 202 00:11:19.000 --> 00:11:22.759 affirmative obligation to ask the jurors these questions. 203 00:11:23.240 --> 00:11:30.440 Sure, and that's how in many cases, new procedures or 204 00:11:30.480 --> 00:11:34.759 an effect codified. Bob, I interrupted, you can you finish on? 205 00:11:35.159 --> 00:11:40.480 See Dan, I don't think you know. I don't. I'm 206 00:11:40.480 --> 00:11:43.799 not saying it can't happen. I'm saying you're talking about 207 00:11:43.919 --> 00:11:46.919 and listen, you may be right. You know, will they 208 00:11:46.960 --> 00:11:50.559 make new law? If they do it, they are making 209 00:11:50.679 --> 00:11:54.799 new law. But see judge abusive discretion is something else. 210 00:11:55.480 --> 00:11:58.679 Judge Town followed the law and did an abuse or 211 00:11:58.759 --> 00:12:02.080 discretion in following the law, so they would have to 212 00:12:02.200 --> 00:12:05.919 change it, and then it's not abusive discretion. But just 213 00:12:05.960 --> 00:12:09.919 remember one thing. Marty Weinberg's looking for a middle ground here. 214 00:12:10.120 --> 00:12:12.919 The second thing he's looking for is for the case 215 00:12:12.960 --> 00:12:16.000 to be remanded back to the Superior Court for her 216 00:12:16.039 --> 00:12:20.000 to have a hearing where she hears from all the jurors. Now, 217 00:12:20.440 --> 00:12:24.840 that's more like it. That's more like it, because hearing 218 00:12:25.000 --> 00:12:29.080 second and third and fourth hand hearsay, you know, through 219 00:12:29.159 --> 00:12:32.320 affidavits from jurors who have never taken a witness stand. 220 00:12:32.759 --> 00:12:35.039 This is what happened in that jury room. This is 221 00:12:35.080 --> 00:12:38.519 where it stood. If if one or two or three 222 00:12:38.559 --> 00:12:41.120 of those jurors don't agree with that version of events, 223 00:12:42.039 --> 00:12:45.240 then it is that it is, and it's over. 224 00:12:45.360 --> 00:12:48.799 It's over. So, however, what happens if they remaind and 225 00:12:49.960 --> 00:12:53.799 Judge Canoni has an in camera proceeding and all the 226 00:12:53.879 --> 00:12:58.759 jurors troop in and say, yeah, we agree to acquit 227 00:12:58.840 --> 00:13:04.879 on one in three, you know, and and and you know, 228 00:13:05.000 --> 00:13:07.960 we did not a quit on two. I would hope 229 00:13:07.960 --> 00:13:11.240 that she would not ask where you were on two. 230 00:13:11.440 --> 00:13:13.759 There have been reports that it was eight to four, 231 00:13:13.879 --> 00:13:16.320 so that's a significant split. But it doesn't matter if 232 00:13:16.320 --> 00:13:18.639 it's eight to four or eleven to one. What does 233 00:13:18.679 --> 00:13:21.399 she do if the jurors in camera or in open 234 00:13:21.399 --> 00:13:24.120 court say yeah, we did agree to a quit on 235 00:13:24.120 --> 00:13:25.679 one of three, what does she do then? 236 00:13:27.399 --> 00:13:30.759 Then? She's in a different position. Then now she's looking 237 00:13:30.799 --> 00:13:34.120 at okay, I've got the evidence here that this was 238 00:13:34.159 --> 00:13:38.120 the vote. And then it becomes a discretionary call on 239 00:13:38.159 --> 00:13:40.600 her point, you know, on her on her you know, 240 00:13:40.679 --> 00:13:43.679 on her part, and if she says no again, it 241 00:13:43.799 --> 00:13:47.320 goes back up yep. And then they decide, are we 242 00:13:47.399 --> 00:13:50.080 going to codify new law, as Bill has said, are 243 00:13:50.080 --> 00:13:53.320 we going to create a new affirmative obligation to ask 244 00:13:53.840 --> 00:13:57.399 the jurors will tell me, are you hung on one, two, 245 00:13:57.440 --> 00:13:58.879 and three or you hung on all? 246 00:13:58.919 --> 00:13:59.120 Three? 247 00:13:59.320 --> 00:14:03.240 Are words to continue the inquiry, which, by the way, 248 00:14:03.399 --> 00:14:06.559 isn't what the law is, right now, that's not what 249 00:14:06.639 --> 00:14:10.360 the law is. So you're right, a new law will 250 00:14:10.399 --> 00:14:14.639 have to be created or sorry, new duties and new procedures, 251 00:14:14.679 --> 00:14:18.440 which is new law has to be created for Canon 252 00:14:18.559 --> 00:14:21.200 to not have abused her discretion. Well, for her, she 253 00:14:21.399 --> 00:14:22.600 has not abused. 254 00:14:22.200 --> 00:14:25.080 Her I don't think she's abused discretion either. I think 255 00:14:25.080 --> 00:14:27.559 the question is whether or not the s JC will 256 00:14:27.600 --> 00:14:30.519 impose on superior court judges who are you know, who 257 00:14:30.519 --> 00:14:34.440 are the trial judges that on a multi count case, 258 00:14:35.720 --> 00:14:39.759 the defense and the prosecution are not obligated to make 259 00:14:39.759 --> 00:14:42.919 emotion but she asks a simple question, are you hung 260 00:14:42.960 --> 00:14:47.120 on all counts or are you hung on some only 261 00:14:47.159 --> 00:14:47.960 some of the counts? 262 00:14:49.799 --> 00:14:53.159 Again back to the affirmative obligation. No, go, yeah, and 263 00:14:53.519 --> 00:14:56.399 you could came back to back to the possibility of 264 00:14:56.919 --> 00:14:59.519 of imposing an affirmative obligation of the judges. That would 265 00:14:59.559 --> 00:15:04.000 be a a pretty bald, a pretty a pretty surprising move, 266 00:15:04.159 --> 00:15:05.120 but it's possible. 267 00:15:05.320 --> 00:15:07.399 Okay, gentlemen, how about we just take a quick break 268 00:15:07.440 --> 00:15:10.960 and that let's invite some of our non lawyers and 269 00:15:11.039 --> 00:15:15.919 other lawyers to call. Clearly, we are not of one 270 00:15:16.000 --> 00:15:18.799 mind on this, which is great, and I certainly will 271 00:15:18.799 --> 00:15:23.080 stand down in deference to your positions. But I do 272 00:15:23.200 --> 00:15:27.039 appreciate the acknowledgment that this is. I think I think 273 00:15:27.039 --> 00:15:32.799 it's a fascinating, kate fascinating appeal on now again, I, 274 00:15:32.960 --> 00:15:35.639 to the best of my knowledge, I don't think that 275 00:15:35.679 --> 00:15:38.720 there is a single juror who has come forward to 276 00:15:38.840 --> 00:15:42.840 either defense lawyers or to the prosecution or to the judge. 277 00:15:42.879 --> 00:15:47.320 I've heard nothing that some some jura has come forward 278 00:15:47.320 --> 00:15:51.840 and said we never agreed on counts? What at three? 279 00:15:52.240 --> 00:15:57.000 And the fact that there's an absence of anyone any 280 00:15:57.120 --> 00:16:01.799 legitimate jury coming forward. That kind of adds adds a 281 00:16:01.799 --> 00:16:03.840 little more drama to it, in my opinion. We'll take 282 00:16:03.879 --> 00:16:05.879 a break if you like to join the conversation Lawyer 283 00:16:06.000 --> 00:16:09.480 or not six seven four ten thirty six one seven 284 00:16:09.559 --> 00:16:12.279 nine three one ten thirty. I just think it's fun 285 00:16:12.320 --> 00:16:16.080 to talk to legal guys like Bill Kickham and Bob George, 286 00:16:16.440 --> 00:16:18.600 who has spent a lot of time in courtrooms over 287 00:16:18.600 --> 00:16:24.240 the years and understand that sometimes the sands shift within 288 00:16:24.320 --> 00:16:26.360 those courtrooms. And maybe we got a little bit of 289 00:16:26.360 --> 00:16:29.000 a seismic ship coming up. Maybe we don't, but it's 290 00:16:29.039 --> 00:16:31.240 fun to talk about it and speculate on it. And 291 00:16:31.240 --> 00:16:34.440 we'll be back on Night Side with real phone calls 292 00:16:34.879 --> 00:16:38.320 for my two guests, Attorney Bill Kickham and Attorney Bob 293 00:16:38.360 --> 00:16:41.039 George both have spent a lot of time in courtrooms 294 00:16:41.039 --> 00:16:43.080 and a lot of time dealing with issues like this 295 00:16:43.159 --> 00:16:45.919 is and I appreciate that both of them have joined 296 00:16:46.000 --> 00:16:49.679 us tonight, particularly on a Friday night. We'll be back 297 00:16:49.720 --> 00:16:50.279 right after this. 298 00:16:51.000 --> 00:16:55.600 It's Night Side Boston's News Radio. 299 00:16:55.759 --> 00:16:57.879 Are you looking to sell your home in New England 300 00:16:57.919 --> 00:16:59.919 and want to avoid the hassle that comes along with 301 00:17:00.120 --> 00:17:02.120 listing it on the market with a real estate agent. 302 00:17:02.360 --> 00:17:04.480 My name is Mike Gomes and me and my partners 303 00:17:04.519 --> 00:17:07.119 have bought over one hundred houses in the last five 304 00:17:07.200 --> 00:17:09.480 years all over New England and we want to buy 305 00:17:09.519 --> 00:17:12.799 yours next. It's super easy to work with us. 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Details at Subaru of 361 00:19:51.319 --> 00:19:53.240 New England dot com. 362 00:19:54.079 --> 00:19:57.279 Now back to Dan Ray live from the Window World 363 00:19:57.359 --> 00:20:00.000 night Side Studios on WBZ New. 364 00:20:00.240 --> 00:20:04.880 Radio, My guests on the line, and gentlemen. I know, Bob, 365 00:20:04.960 --> 00:20:08.920 you are probably a little more strapped for time, so 366 00:20:09.039 --> 00:20:12.319 I can let either or both of you go at 367 00:20:12.359 --> 00:20:14.359 ten thirty, but I gotta I want to get a 368 00:20:14.400 --> 00:20:16.279 couple of calls in for each of you. Let's see 369 00:20:16.279 --> 00:20:19.400 what the folks have to say. If you if you 370 00:20:19.440 --> 00:20:21.240 want to take a position, that's fine, but I think 371 00:20:21.519 --> 00:20:23.400 it would be better to get a question for these 372 00:20:23.960 --> 00:20:26.920 learned counselors. Danielle and Worcester. Danielle and Worster, you run 373 00:20:26.960 --> 00:20:29.400 next on Nightside first this hour, go right ahead, Danielle 374 00:20:29.480 --> 00:20:31.880 with Bill kick Him and attorney Bill kick Him and 375 00:20:31.880 --> 00:20:32.839 Attorney Bob George. 376 00:20:32.920 --> 00:20:36.079 Oh this is this is almost a dream come true call. 377 00:20:37.400 --> 00:20:42.880 So there's so much but I'm just gonna first of all, 378 00:20:43.160 --> 00:20:45.519 I watch a lot of like law tubers. They call 379 00:20:45.519 --> 00:20:47.920 the lawyers from other parts of the country. The have 380 00:20:47.960 --> 00:20:50.519 YouTube channel, so they all kind of poke fun of 381 00:20:50.519 --> 00:20:53.240 Massachusetts always kind of match into their own beat. You know, 382 00:20:53.240 --> 00:20:56.039 Massachusetts don't set of law as compared to a ways 383 00:20:56.039 --> 00:20:59.640 of doing things versus other states. One of the things 384 00:20:59.680 --> 00:21:03.839 that comes up a lot is how the judge picks 385 00:21:03.880 --> 00:21:08.519 the four person prior to alternates being named, et cetera. 386 00:21:09.240 --> 00:21:12.200 Is that can you talk about that a little bit? 387 00:21:12.240 --> 00:21:15.680 Because the jury for person is who seems to have 388 00:21:15.839 --> 00:21:18.720 played a big role in all of this confusion. A 389 00:21:18.759 --> 00:21:20.559 lot of the other jurors to come forward and said 390 00:21:20.559 --> 00:21:23.599 that he wouldn't allow anybody to ask questions when they 391 00:21:23.599 --> 00:21:24.640 didn't understand something. 392 00:21:25.720 --> 00:21:28.240 So that's a great question. I was unaware of that. 393 00:21:28.319 --> 00:21:31.920 I know that he wrote a very lawyer like note 394 00:21:32.920 --> 00:21:34.839 explaining to the judge. 395 00:21:34.480 --> 00:21:37.400 He's a former police officer and now it's to the 396 00:21:37.440 --> 00:21:39.119 physicians positions. 397 00:21:39.440 --> 00:21:42.039 No more than I do, Danielle. Let me get Bob 398 00:21:42.319 --> 00:21:45.160 or build a comment or that. Are you guys familiar 399 00:21:45.200 --> 00:21:47.759 with the fella who was the four person in the jury. 400 00:21:47.880 --> 00:21:51.480 I wasn't sure what his employment was, but he wrote 401 00:21:51.480 --> 00:21:55.079