Speaker 1: All right, everyone get ready because today we are going
Speaker 1: deep on secure PHP applications.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, this is going to be fair.
Speaker 1: We've got a ton of resources to pull from, we do.
Speaker 1: But I think the highlight is going to be this
Speaker 1: excerpt from a book, Oh for Sure, by Mohammed Jacobeir.
Speaker 1: He's great who is not only a developer but also
Speaker 1: a security expert.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he approaches it from both sides.
Speaker 1: Exactly, and I think that's what's so interesting about his
Speaker 1: perspective on this. Absolutely, And in the preface he makes
Speaker 1: it pretty clear that this book is for developers who
Speaker 1: are ready to seriously step up their game.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you really got to be ready to dive in.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: It's not for beginners.
Speaker 1: No, this is not PHP one on one, definitely not.
Speaker 1: But you know what, even if you're not a hardcore coder, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think there's a lot to learn here, for sure
Speaker 1: about just the mindset of software security.
Speaker 2: Absolutely.
Speaker 1: So what really jumped out at you for the preface?
Speaker 2: You know what I thought was interesting? What's that he
Speaker 2: doesn't waste any time? Oh yeah, he goes straight into
Speaker 2: the risks, no sugarcoating.
Speaker 1: No, he's like, look, there threats out there.
Speaker 2: Here, They are. Let's get real right into it. Yeah,
Speaker 2: So to illustrate this, he brings up this example script.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, called bad Who's dot php ye, And it's,
Speaker 2: you know, on the surface, it seems like harmless enough.
Speaker 2: It's for looking up domain information.
Speaker 1: Right exactly, that's what it sounds like.
Speaker 2: But then he shows how a hacker, Oh yeah, this
Speaker 2: is the good part could actually use this script to
Speaker 2: access sensitive system files.
Speaker 1: Yeah, if you're not careful, if.
Speaker 2: The input isn't validated properly.
Speaker 1: If you don't check who's at the door.
Speaker 2: That's a great analogy.
Speaker 1: It's like a bouncer at a club just letting anyone in,
Speaker 1: not even checking IDs. You can't do that.
Speaker 2: Big problem.
Speaker 1: Huge.
Speaker 2: So the book really emphasizes this concept of input validation.
Speaker 1: Oh it's so important, and you know, it gets into
Speaker 1: the nitty gritty of using functions like is numeric.
Speaker 2: Is in to check if it's really a number.
Speaker 1: Making sure that the data is what it claims to be.
Speaker 1: And it goes even further. Yeah, it shows how to
Speaker 1: create like custom functions. Oh wow, for specific types of data,
Speaker 1: what like email addresses?
Speaker 2: Oh right, so you can zip code validate that. That's cool.
Speaker 1: So you're not just limited to these built in PHP functions, right.
Speaker 2: You can really tailor it to your needs exactly right,
Speaker 2: It's smart.
Speaker 1: And then they take it another step further. Hey, do
Speaker 1: they introduce this data validator class okay, which basically streamlines
Speaker 1: the process of validating multiple fields.
Speaker 2: Oh wow, so you don't have to do it all
Speaker 2: all at once. Individual.
Speaker 1: It's like having a whole team of bouncers. I like
Speaker 1: that analogy, each with their own expertise, checking IDs, looking
Speaker 1: for fake names, whatever it might be.
Speaker 2: Got the whole team.
Speaker 1: You've got a whole system.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's cool.
Speaker 1: So we've talked about the dangers of bad input, right,
Speaker 1: but how do we actually write secure code?
Speaker 2: That's the big question?
Speaker 1: Right? And so Kabir dies into a whole section on
Speaker 1: best practices, and one that really stood out to me
Speaker 1: was the emphasis on using meaningful names.
Speaker 2: For your variables.
Speaker 1: Yes, for variables and functions. Yeah, and I know this
Speaker 1: might seem kind of basic. It does, but it's actually
Speaker 1: really crucial for reability yeah and surprisingly security.
Speaker 2: Really why is that?
Speaker 1: Well, think about it, Okay, if you have a variable
Speaker 1: name six dollars.
Speaker 2: Yeah, just six dollars, you have.
Speaker 1: No idea what it represents, right, it could be anything,
Speaker 1: and that can lead to errors.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, you can mix things up big time for sure.
Speaker 1: It's like, imagine you're in the kitchen. Okay, you're cooking.
Speaker 1: I love to cook, and all your spices are just
Speaker 1: in unlabeled jars. Oh no, you don't know what's what.
Speaker 2: You're gonna mess up the recipe.
Speaker 1: You gotta put cayenne pepper in your cookies instead of cinnamon.
Speaker 2: Oh that would be bad, not good, not good at all.
Speaker 1: So the book really emphasizes using clear variable names, right
Speaker 1: like template dr oh so instantly, No, yeah, what it is,
Speaker 1: that's what that variable hole. It makes sense, and it
Speaker 1: takes it a step further recommending all caps for constants.
Speaker 2: Oh interesting, I haven't seen that before.
Speaker 1: It's a nice visual cue. So it's like it helps
Speaker 1: you just distinguish.
Speaker 2: Them from regular variables.
Speaker 1: Right, So if you see templa diers all caps, you know,
Speaker 1: you know it's going to point to the same location throughout.
Speaker 2: The whole application.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's smart. So far, so good.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is great.
Speaker 1: We've covered a lot of ground we have. But I
Speaker 1: think what's really cool is that Kabir goes beyond just
Speaker 1: individual scripts. Oh yeah, he actually shows you how to
Speaker 1: build entire secure intranet applications.
Speaker 2: That's a big step up.
Speaker 1: It is. It's like he's giving you a blueprint.
Speaker 2: Like architectural plans. Yes, exactly, secure internal tools.
Speaker 1: So he introduces this concept of an application framework, which
Speaker 1: is essentially a set of reusable classes and functions, so
Speaker 1: you don't have to start from scratch exactly.
Speaker 2: It's like prefabricated building block.
Speaker 1: But designed with security in mind.
Speaker 2: Oh that's cool. So they're already secure.
Speaker 1: They're built to be secure come the ground up. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so you're not having to reinvent the wheel every time.
Speaker 2: That makes sense.
Speaker 1: You can just use these secure components, right and focus
Speaker 1: on the specific function you need.
Speaker 2: Okay, that makes sense.
Speaker 1: And the way this framework is structured is really interesting.
Speaker 2: Oh.
Speaker 1: How so it's got this logical layered approach.
Speaker 2: Oh, like layers of an onion kind of like that.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So you've got the presentation layer.
Speaker 2: Like the user sees exactly.
Speaker 1: Then you've got the application layer, the brains that's where
Speaker 1: all the logic happens.
Speaker 2: The logic, okay, and then.
Speaker 1: You've got the database layer where the data lives exactly
Speaker 1: interacting with the data store.
Speaker 2: Okay, So it's all very very organized, organ like a
Speaker 2: well run kitchen like that, where everything has its place.
Speaker 1: Everything has its place. But it's not just about being tidy. No.
Speaker 1: This framework also has some really robust security features built in. Oh,
Speaker 1: like what for example, authentication and authorization, those are important
Speaker 1: are centralized.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 1: So instead of each tool managing its own users and permissions,
Speaker 1: it's all handled in one secure place.
Speaker 2: Oh.
Speaker 1: It's like having one main entrance for the whole building,
Speaker 1: for the.
Speaker 2: Whole building a super secure lock.
Speaker 1: Yes, instead of having multiple doors.
Speaker 2: That each need their own security system exactly.
Speaker 1: Okay, that makes sense, much more efficient and secure and secure. Yeah.
Speaker 1: They've also got this powerful error handler built in. What
Speaker 1: is that too, which not only logs errors for debugging. Oh,
Speaker 1: that's helpful, but it also supports internationalization. Okay, so error
Speaker 1: messages can be displayed in different languages.
Speaker 2: Oh wow, that's useful.
Speaker 1: Yeah, depending on the user's preferences.
Speaker 2: That's a nice touch.
Speaker 1: Makes things a lot easier, it does. And what I
Speaker 1: really love is that they don't just leave you hanging
Speaker 1: with this framework, so they give you actually provide concrete
Speaker 1: example of how to use it, of how to use
Speaker 1: this framework to build real Internet applications.
Speaker 2: Oh, that's so cool.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So they've got like a central authentication system, a
Speaker 1: user management system, right, a document publisher, wow, a contact manager.
Speaker 2: These are all things you'd.
Speaker 1: Need, even a calendar manager for real intranet. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: it's just amazing to see these real world applications come together. Yeah,
Speaker 1: with such a strong focus on security.
Speaker 2: That's cool. I like that a lot. And you know,
Speaker 2: it's really cool. What's that the security focus? Yeah, it
Speaker 2: doesn't stop at the Internet, really. The book goes on
Speaker 2: to explore a whole range of other applications. Wait, what
Speaker 2: email marketing?
Speaker 1: Oh wow, surveys okay.
Speaker 2: Command line utilities interesting, even virtual host management.
Speaker 1: Yeah. He's really showing us that no matter what you're
Speaker 1: building with PHP, security should always be top of mind.
Speaker 2: It's like a golden thread running through the whole book.
Speaker 1: Absolutely. So, which of these applications really stead out to you?
Speaker 2: You know? One that I thought was really interesting was
Speaker 2: the telefriends system.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that's a classic.
Speaker 2: It's like a staple on so many websites.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you see it everywhere.
Speaker 2: But the way Kaber incorporates a scoring mechanism to prevent abuse.
Speaker 1: Oh, that's smart.
Speaker 2: It's really clever.
Speaker 1: Yeah, how does that work?
Speaker 2: So basically it encourages sharing, but it also stops spammers.
Speaker 1: In their tracks, so you can't just you.
Speaker 2: Can't just blasted out to everyone. You have to actually
Speaker 2: be selective.
Speaker 1: That's cool.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I thought it was a really neat way to
Speaker 2: add a layer of security to a common feature that's
Speaker 2: like a game.
Speaker 1: Yeah, kind of, but with real world security implications exactly.
Speaker 1: I like it.
Speaker 2: What about email campaigns.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, those are.
Speaker 2: Tricky, they can be from a security perspective.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because you're dealing with so much sensitive.
Speaker 2: Data, right exactly.
Speaker 1: And you don't want that getting into the wrong hands.
Speaker 2: Absolutely. And the book goes into detail about building an
Speaker 2: email system. Okay, that allows for personalized mass emails.
Speaker 1: So you can still target specific groups, right, but you're
Speaker 1: doing it securely exactly.
Speaker 2: And it also covers tracking responses.
Speaker 1: Well that's important, so.
Speaker 2: You can see who's opening your emails, who's clicking on links, but.
Speaker 1: All while making sure that the data.
Speaker 2: Is protected absolutely, that's paramount.
Speaker 1: And that the system can't be hijacked for spam.
Speaker 2: Right, because that's a huge problem, huge problem. Yeah, you
Speaker 2: don't want your system being used to send out junk mail.
Speaker 1: No one wants that. No. Okay, so we've talked about
Speaker 1: I have applications, but what about command line stuff?
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that's a whole other world, it is.
Speaker 1: And to be honest, it always seems a bit intimidating.
Speaker 2: I know what you mean.
Speaker 1: To non developers, it can be a bit cryptic. Yeah,
Speaker 1: all those commands and things.
Speaker 2: But Kabeer makes it seem really approachable. Really yeah. He
Speaker 2: breaks it down really well.
Speaker 1: So what kind of command line applications does he cover? Well?
Speaker 2: One example he gives is a command line reminder tool.
Speaker 1: Oh that's cool.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like having a personal.
Speaker 1: Assistant that lives on the command line exactly.
Speaker 2: And it can send you notifications for appointments or deadlines.
Speaker 1: So it's like a to do list but on steroids exactly.
Speaker 1: I like it.
Speaker 2: And he also covers virtual host management.
Speaker 1: Oh wow, that's getting pretty advanced.
Speaker 2: It is, but it's something that a lot of system
Speaker 2: administrators have to deal with.
Speaker 1: Yeah, setting up and managing all those virtual hosts exactly.
Speaker 2: And Kaber actually provides a tool a tool, Yeah. He
Speaker 2: calls it the Apache Virtual Hostmaker, and it helps automate
Speaker 2: the process.
Speaker 1: Oh so it makes it easier. That's easier and more secure.
Speaker 2: Hopefully that's the goal. You know. It's amazing we've covered
Speaker 2: so much.
Speaker 1: We really have actual.
Speaker 2: Code examples to like these big picture application frameworks.
Speaker 1: The whole spectrum.
Speaker 2: But I think what's really cool about this book is
Speaker 2: that that it doesn't just tell you what to do, right,
Speaker 2: It explains the why, Yeah, the reasoning yeah, behind secure
Speaker 2: PHP development. It's not just a cookbook, more like a philosophy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like a way of thinking.
Speaker 2: And I think that's what makes it so valuable.
Speaker 1: Oh, absolutely, because Kaber is not.
Speaker 2: Just giving you a set of rules to follow blindly.
Speaker 1: He's helping you understand the principles.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the underlying principle.
Speaker 1: So you can make informed decisions in your own projects,
Speaker 1: in your own work.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's key.
Speaker 1: It's like he's not just teaching you to fish.
Speaker 2: He's teaching you to think.
Speaker 1: Like a fish, or maybe like a fisherman.
Speaker 2: A fisherman who's also a security expert.
Speaker 1: Yeah, a very specialized fisherman.
Speaker 2: Yeah exactly, But you get the point I do.
Speaker 1: It's about developing that security mindset.
Speaker 2: It's a way of life, it really is for a developer.
Speaker 1: And I think that's a key takeaway. Yeah, for any developer.
Speaker 2: Really, whether you're just starting out, regardless of experience, or
Speaker 2: you've been doing this for years.
Speaker 1: That security first approach.
Speaker 2: It's essential.
Speaker 1: It's essential. It's got to be baked in from the beginning,
Speaker 1: from day one.
Speaker 2: Absolutely.
Speaker 1: And this makes me think about something else that the
Speaker 1: book touches on. Oh what's that speed optimization?
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that's a whole other can of worms. It is,
Speaker 2: but it's important, it's important.
Speaker 1: But how do you balance that? That's the question, the
Speaker 1: need for security with the desire for fast responsive applications.
Speaker 2: If you want both, you want it all right.
Speaker 1: But sometimes it feels like those two things are odds. Yeah,
Speaker 1: like they're pulling in opposite directions.
Speaker 2: You know. Sometimes adding those extra layers of security it
Speaker 2: can slow things down a bit, a little bit.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So how do you find that sweet spot?
Speaker 2: That's the million dollar question.
Speaker 1: Right where it's both secure and fasts.
Speaker 2: Well, it's a balancing act.
Speaker 1: It really is.
Speaker 2: It's a trade off.
Speaker 1: So in some cases, security might be the top priority, absolutely,
Speaker 1: even if it means sacrifice it giving up a little
Speaker 1: bit of performance.
Speaker 2: A little bit of speed.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like if you're dealing with highly sensitive data.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, like financial.
Speaker 1: Wreck, medical information.
Speaker 2: You don't want to mess around with that.
Speaker 1: Did. Security trumps everything absolutely, But in other situations, yeah,
Speaker 1: speed might be more critical.
Speaker 2: It might be, right, Like think about a real time application. Yeah,
Speaker 2: like a stock trading platform or a multiplayer game.
Speaker 1: Where every millisecond counts exactly.
Speaker 2: You can't afford to have any lag.
Speaker 1: Any delay could be costly, yeah, or disrupt the whole experience.
Speaker 2: The whole user experience.
Speaker 1: So you've got to be more creative you do in
Speaker 1: finding ways to optimize security.
Speaker 2: Without sacrificing too much performance.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: It's a tough challenge, it is.
Speaker 1: It's like choosing a sports.
Speaker 2: Car and a tank. Yeah, both have their advantages.
Speaker 1: You want to get there fast, you do, but you
Speaker 1: also want to be safe exactly.
Speaker 2: But you can't always have both.
Speaker 1: You can't have it all.
Speaker 2: Sometimes you have to make a choice.
Speaker 1: And that's why it's so important for developers and understanding
Speaker 1: really understands both sides, both security and performance.
Speaker 2: Right. You have to be able to assess the risks.
Speaker 1: Yeah, make those tough decisions. I find the right balance
Speaker 1: for your specific application exactly.
Speaker 2: There's no one size fits all solution.
Speaker 1: So if you're listening to this and you're thinking, oh
Speaker 1: my god, this is complex, this is overwhelming, it'll be intimidated.
Speaker 2: Yeah, don't pair it, because take.
Speaker 1: It one step at a time, one step at a time.
Speaker 1: You know, start by incorporating some of those basic principles
Speaker 1: like what validating your inputs, using meaningful names, thinking about
Speaker 1: security from the beginning, from the very start. And remember,
Speaker 1: learning is a journey.
Speaker 2: It's a marathon, not a sprint. It really is the
Speaker 2: world of cybersecurity.
Speaker 1: It's constantly changing, it's always evolving. So you got to
Speaker 1: say curious, Yeah, keep learning, keep exploring, never stop learning.
Speaker 1: Stop learning. There are tons of resources out there. There
Speaker 1: are online communities, books look like this.
Speaker 2: One, articles, conferences, podcasts, we're a podcast.
Speaker 1: All sorts of things to help you stay up to
Speaker 1: date exactly.
Speaker 2: You're not alone.
Speaker 1: And as you're learning and growing, always remember what's that
Speaker 1: Security isn't just about protecting data.
Speaker 2: It's about protecting people.
Speaker 1: It's about people.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the code we write it has.
Speaker 1: Real world consequences.
Speaker 2: It does.
Speaker 1: We have a responsibility developer to build applications.
Speaker 2: That are both powerful and secure. That's a good way
Speaker 2: to put it.
Speaker 1: So as you continue to explore the world of secure
Speaker 1: PHP development. Remember to balance functionality with security, and always
Speaker 1: keep that human element in mind.
Speaker 2: It's all about people, it is.
Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us on this deep dive.
Speaker 2: It's been a pleasure.