Speaker 1: Oh bad, that art.
Speaker 2: That Hello, and welcome to the show. This is the
Speaker 2: Cult of Conspiracy. Now I am the Cage to Night.
Speaker 2: I'm ravingly and today we are going to take a
Speaker 2: little journey relatively recent but still. We're gonna take a
Speaker 2: little journey back in history here to the nineteen thirties, forties,
Speaker 2: and we're going to end up somewhere in the sixties.
Speaker 3: So before we begin, I go ahead, I need to
Speaker 3: give it this disclaimer.
Speaker 2: And I have always been on this. I will never
Speaker 2: be off of this, and I make no apologies. I
Speaker 2: fucking hate commies. They are not people. I will stand
Speaker 2: by this until the day I die.
Speaker 1: I did not know where you're going with this, because
Speaker 1: you have a lot of things that you're pretty a
Speaker 1: staunch and your passionate about, I.
Speaker 2: Know, and sometimes to my detriment. And I'm willing to
Speaker 2: acknowledge that. And you know, I'm trying to learn more,
Speaker 2: gain wisdom and perhaps kind of slow down some of
Speaker 2: the more visceral hatred I have towards things that I
Speaker 2: had as a younger man. And I acknowledge this. No,
Speaker 2: I stand on business on this one. I'm keeping it
Speaker 2: ten toes down. Commies aren't people, and they all deserve
Speaker 2: a very brutal death. I stand by this, this being said,
Speaker 2: what is that is a take? It is the take
Speaker 2: I'm probably gonna stay on until the day I die.
Speaker 3: I'm sorry.
Speaker 2: The more I look at for you of it, the
Speaker 2: more I look into it, the more it's It is
Speaker 2: the most detrimental and harmful system ever devised by human beings.
Speaker 2: More than chattel slavery. Communistic ideals have killed more people
Speaker 2: in such a short amount of time. Like, it's mathematically
Speaker 2: the most deadly and dangerous system human beings have ever created.
Speaker 1: You'll have to break it down for I feel like
Speaker 1: most people should know what communism is, but some people
Speaker 1: actually don't, and a lot of people get kind of
Speaker 1: things get better confused between fascism, socialism, communism.
Speaker 2: Okay, and I'm glad you even brought up fascism on
Speaker 2: this one because that does make its entrance.
Speaker 3: But all right, so let's break this down and know
Speaker 3: the episode.
Speaker 4: Is so what is it actually?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 5: Right?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 2: So this episode is not just gonna be a shit
Speaker 2: on Carl Marks, although I will do so till the
Speaker 2: day I die, But today we are gonna be talking
Speaker 2: about Soviet spy that infiltrated five and six specifically to
Speaker 2: spread communism and feed intel to the Soviet Union. But
Speaker 2: to answer your question, what is communism? So this guy
Speaker 2: named Karl Marx wants upon a time decided to write
Speaker 2: a book, and that book reads more like a utopic
Speaker 2: ideal set right where everybody pitches in, regardless of what
Speaker 2: job and what socioeconomic class they were born into. Whatever,
Speaker 2: everybody makes the same amount of money. There's no higher
Speaker 2: or lower standard of living. The ones that have more
Speaker 2: give to those that have less, and everybody is egalitarian
Speaker 2: as fuck.
Speaker 3: It's equal across the board.
Speaker 2: It's very utopian, and by the book and by the ideals,
Speaker 2: it is a perfect system.
Speaker 3: That's fine.
Speaker 2: However, it will never work because human beings do not
Speaker 2: breit in such way. You could have a communist utopia
Speaker 2: work to five hundred I would maybe, And I'm being
Speaker 2: very generous when I say maybe a thousand people, because
Speaker 2: no matter what, human beings inherently want more. And I
Speaker 2: don't mean on a consumeristic kick. I mean just because
Speaker 2: we want a higher standard of living for our children than.
Speaker 3: What we got. That's inherent to all human beings.
Speaker 2: That means that we have a drive to achieve more
Speaker 2: than our parents did, and we want to instill in
Speaker 2: our children a drive to achieve more than we did.
Speaker 3: And so it goes.
Speaker 2: This means that we always are gonna have a can
Speaker 2: do attitude, and there's going to end up being haves
Speaker 2: and have nots, doesn't matter to what context. Even if
Speaker 2: there's no money and it's all farming, the dude that
Speaker 2: has the beef farm is gonna have a little more
Speaker 2: as far as leverage goes than the beat farmer. I'm
Speaker 2: very sorry. This is just what it is, right. The blacksmith,
Speaker 2: who you have to rely on him to make all
Speaker 2: of your tools to farm your land, he will have
Speaker 2: leverage to hold over people to where he will have more.
Speaker 3: This is just human nature.
Speaker 1: And hierarchies happen in everything, so it's gonna be inherent anyways.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, and in the communistic way. Every single time period,
Speaker 2: hard stop period, every country, every nation, every group that
Speaker 2: has enacted a communist system, the haves and have nots
Speaker 2: get so vastly different. Like I understand, we have you know,
Speaker 2: a one percent of wealth in America. I absolutely understand that.
Speaker 2: And they are waging war on the middle class. Right now,
Speaker 2: I acknowledge this, And I'm not saying capitalism is a
Speaker 2: perfect system. I'm saying it's the best one we've come
Speaker 2: up with, just as of now. But in a communistic system,
Speaker 2: every time, the oligarchs and the ones at the top,
Speaker 2: the boys that are like really tight with the leader,
Speaker 2: will be living five star mansion lifestyles while the rest
Speaker 2: of their country are starving.
Speaker 3: And this happens on repeat every time.
Speaker 2: And then even further that point, and you know about plants,
Speaker 2: you know about farming, raven Liso Marxist farming became a
Speaker 2: thing where basically, and as I say this, I'm gonna
Speaker 2: watch your IQ points drop in real time.
Speaker 3: It's mind blowing.
Speaker 2: These people, these grown ass adults who had been farming
Speaker 2: for years and all this stuff. Right when Russia took
Speaker 2: over and the Soviets took over, the communistic ideals took
Speaker 2: over Russia, they took all of the farmland from the
Speaker 2: farmers and kicked them out because oh, that's your family land.
Speaker 2: You mean that it's the nation's land now, right, So
Speaker 2: then inste keeping the people that ran these farms for
Speaker 2: decades and centuries, who knew how to farm, they instilled
Speaker 2: Marxist farming with plants. So what do I mean by that?
Speaker 2: Every plant, regardless of breed, genus, which season they would
Speaker 2: best thrive in, doesn't matter. They got a one foot
Speaker 2: by one foot plot of dirt. And wouldn't you know
Speaker 2: Raven lead that they felt the famine for decades.
Speaker 1: Wow, it's really interesting mindset when it comes to gardening. It,
Speaker 1: especially when.
Speaker 2: Mass agriculture done to this scale. It wasn't a yard.
Speaker 2: This was their entire food network for the entire nation
Speaker 2: done like this. Yeah, but roll, because wouldn't you know it?
Speaker 2: Nature is about survival of the fittest, and certain plants
Speaker 2: and certain animals will do better in certain environments than others.
Speaker 3: And maybe you should plant at certain times of year.
Speaker 2: Perhaps this type of plant requires a little more dirt
Speaker 2: for their root network, and maybe this one doesn't.
Speaker 3: Require as much water. This takes nohow.
Speaker 2: But according to Karl Marx and all of the communistic
Speaker 2: way of thinking, everything is equal or else it's not good.
Speaker 1: That doesn't inherently work for any society never like ever
Speaker 1: has it or will it ever? I could only see
Speaker 1: it happening if it was under five hundred people. And
Speaker 1: these people were raised, some talking about taking infants and
Speaker 1: putting them into this society, and they were inherently brainwashed
Speaker 1: from the time that they were you know, in diapers
Speaker 1: up to pretty much you know, this is the way
Speaker 1: it is. But even that, though, is still going to
Speaker 1: need some management. Everything is about management. If anyone's watched Fallout,
Speaker 1: we all know it's true. It's all about management, though,
Speaker 1: like you're still going to have to have a type
Speaker 1: of hierarchy regardless of what your system is in place.
Speaker 1: You're going to have to have some type of ruling
Speaker 1: class to help maintain order and discipline in peace within
Speaker 1: the community. Now, there could be a lot more of
Speaker 1: sharing within the community, and you know, everyone's kind of
Speaker 1: will in us sense the majority is equal, but there
Speaker 1: will inherently have to be someone in charge, right, and
Speaker 1: people are naturally There's going to be natural people that
Speaker 1: want to follow and natural people that want to lead,
Speaker 1: and there's nothing wrong with either or for the record,
Speaker 1: there is nothing wrong with either art there's nothing.
Speaker 2: Wrong with being a follower as long as you do
Speaker 2: as you're supposed to do and the organization or the
Speaker 2: movement or whatever thrives.
Speaker 1: This is how And they also you know, protect you,
Speaker 1: and they share with you, and they make sure that
Speaker 1: you're safe and doing everything that you're supposed to be doing,
Speaker 1: because the natural balor and leaders are going to want
Speaker 1: to inherently lead, and that's not something that you could
Speaker 1: just brainwash out. Like it's going to arise, even if
Speaker 1: it's maybe not the first generation, the next generation will
Speaker 1: have that natural instinct come out. Plus we have natural
Speaker 1: instincts of flight or flight and wanting to herd together.
Speaker 1: And there's a lot of different things. I mean, in
Speaker 1: a in a fantasy book land sure, exactly, okay, But
Speaker 1: like even bookleans know that this won't inherently that people
Speaker 1: will suffer at the bottom naturally.
Speaker 3: This is my issue with it. Okay.
Speaker 2: So Carl Marx himself he wrote a book called the
Speaker 2: Communist Manifesto, okay, and people took this book and applied
Speaker 2: it literally and then it developed a cult following, which,
Speaker 2: for the record, communism is a cult. Then we have
Speaker 2: had so many people come on the show that have
Speaker 2: said that they used to be a member of the
Speaker 2: American Communist Party or this group over here, whatever the case.
Speaker 2: And every time, because you're also not allowed to have
Speaker 2: religion or spirituality at all perp time, and you are
Speaker 2: not allowed to think of a greater being.
Speaker 3: The society is the greater being, the nation is the
Speaker 3: greater being. That's it. Everything start stops an inn.
Speaker 4: So like Equilibrium the movie, There you Go.
Speaker 2: So we had Lindsay Sharman from Rogue Way. As a
Speaker 2: matter of fact, friend of the show love her to death.
Speaker 2: She used to be a Communist like card carrying member,
Speaker 2: and she is not a religious human being, but she
Speaker 2: is more of the spiritual vibe type. And whenever the
Speaker 2: Communists told her that she could not be that and
Speaker 2: be a communist, well wait wait if that's the case,
Speaker 2: and what about this, and what about this?
Speaker 3: Oh, you know what you need to do. You need
Speaker 3: to read this book, you need you need to read
Speaker 3: this other literature we just found. You need to redo this.
Speaker 2: Basically, you were forcing the person to reindoctrinate themselves every
Speaker 2: time they came up with a question.
Speaker 3: Or put a plot hold in an effect.
Speaker 2: Basically, so, and that's that's the going trend with this organization,
Speaker 2: this whole mindset of communism now communism itself, and we're
Speaker 2: gonna now shift to what socialism is as opposed to communism.
Speaker 2: So communism has pretty much a leader for life type
Speaker 2: of situation. It's essentially dictatorship with a communist hierarchy. Socialism
Speaker 2: you get to elector slave owner. Every few years, you
Speaker 2: get an election and you have this sense of choice,
Speaker 2: but it's literally just Marxist ideologies repackaged in a way
Speaker 2: that makes it look like the people have more freedom,
Speaker 2: but that's not true. And socialism and communism work great
Speaker 2: until you run out of money and you run out
Speaker 2: of food. Every time period it has ever been attempted
Speaker 2: on the history of the Earth, it goes great until
Speaker 2: the nation itself runs out of oil, runs out of gold,
Speaker 2: and then somehow their food network always collapses because communism
Speaker 2: and food just don't go together.
Speaker 3: It's like water and oil. They don't mix, right.
Speaker 2: So it's a whole thing now when you bring up
Speaker 2: what is fascism. Fascism if you were to take the
Speaker 2: alt right and the alt left, and I don't mean
Speaker 2: like you know what you're seeing on the media these days,
Speaker 2: I mean the extremeist of the ideologies on the farthest
Speaker 2: of the right and the farthest of the left and
Speaker 2: combine them under one military, totalitarian regime.
Speaker 4: That's fascism sounds super fun.
Speaker 3: That's why so many people will say that the Nazis.
Speaker 2: Like, okay, so you'll have leftists that will claim that
Speaker 2: everybody on the right is a fascist and a Nazi
Speaker 2: because certain right leaning ideologies the Nazis was a part
Speaker 2: of the Nazi rhetoric. On the same side, the Nazis
Speaker 2: were a socialist party, not that whole acronym that is
Speaker 2: the National German Socialist Party. That is what Nazi stands for.
Speaker 2: And the right can look at so many of the
Speaker 2: socialist ideologies that they have and say, no, Nazis were
Speaker 2: clearly left leaning. In reality, they are the worst of
Speaker 2: the farthest of both if this makes sense.
Speaker 4: But it does. I mean, I already know what they are.
Speaker 1: But like, yes, I think you did a really good
Speaker 1: breakdown for people, you know, to understand kind of what
Speaker 1: it looks like with all three of these things, and
Speaker 1: then interres in this conversation of the thirties, forties, and sixties.
Speaker 4: I'm curious to see how this plays out.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so let's let's paint a picture here.
Speaker 2: Okay, let's we're gonna be talking about England, jolly old
Speaker 2: as some might say.
Speaker 1: Oh, I mean, we might as well just call it a
Speaker 1: Muslim country now, so like it's not for England now.
Speaker 2: It absolutely is. England has fallen. But I would also
Speaker 2: argue that they started to fall with this group. Believe
Speaker 2: it or not, I think the Cambridge five started. That
Speaker 2: was the flick of the first domino that set everything
Speaker 2: else in motion. And okay, let's talk about it more
Speaker 2: so we're talking about England. Nineteen twenties, nineteen thirties. The
Speaker 2: Roaring twenties was a good time for a lot of people,
Speaker 2: and including England.
Speaker 3: Their economy was doing well.
Speaker 2: After this, it was the post World War One situation,
Speaker 2: all the things, all the stuff. The Great Depression hit
Speaker 2: and it didn't just hit the United States. That was
Speaker 2: a worldwide felt phenomenon that took place. Nineteen thirties things
Speaker 2: aren't looking so hot. But before the nineteen thirties you
Speaker 2: had two movements that were growing in England.
Speaker 3: If you got this guy named Oswalt Moseley who was
Speaker 3: a fascists.
Speaker 2: As matter of fact, he was at Adolph Hitler's wedding
Speaker 2: and he was pushing fascist ideals in England and was
Speaker 2: trying to start the British Fascist Party. As a way
Speaker 2: to take over their parliament system. So no longer we
Speaker 2: got this right and left. He was truly founding and
Speaker 2: growing the British Fascist Party. As a matter of fact,
Speaker 2: he had a cameo in a Peaky Blinders. At that
Speaker 2: same time, you had communists that were trying to start
Speaker 2: a revolution. I don't mean a political party, I mean
Speaker 2: an armed revolution inside the UK. And this wasn't just
Speaker 2: in the UK, this was around the world. If everybody
Speaker 2: thinks back to the Cold War and you talk to
Speaker 2: like your grandparents, or if your great grandparents are still alive,
Speaker 2: ask him about it, they will basically still hold true
Speaker 2: of just.
Speaker 3: Fuck comedies, dude, fuck them.
Speaker 2: And that's really how they were brought up, because it's
Speaker 2: not And I didn't understand this growing up. I didn't
Speaker 2: understand why the Cold War was against an ideal, Like,
Speaker 2: it's not US versus Russia. It was capitalism versus communism
Speaker 2: in a war. This to to younger me, this made
Speaker 2: no fucking sense. How do you how do you bomb
Speaker 2: an ideal?
Speaker 3: Right? How do you how do you stop that? That
Speaker 3: makes no sense.
Speaker 2: I now understand that it wasn't about just communism. It
Speaker 2: was the spread of communism if it would have stayed
Speaker 2: in Russia and just been a Russian thing, all right,
Speaker 2: that's not a threat to anybody, you do, you right,
Speaker 2: There's there's dictatorships that are going on right now that
Speaker 2: America is not lifting a finger to go help. And
Speaker 2: then there's some that were bombing the shit out of it.
Speaker 2: But that's that's a talk for another day. We're not
Speaker 2: talking about Iran today. But my point is the idea
Speaker 2: of okay, communism itself, it wasn't just supposed to stay
Speaker 2: in Russia. These fucks got together and decided we need
Speaker 2: to send out essentially missionaries to spread the good word
Speaker 2: of Karl Marx to the world, and they decided to
Speaker 2: start going after young college aged people, which is still
Speaker 2: what they do to this day. How many normal, decently
Speaker 2: adequately intelligent kids do you know that go off to
Speaker 2: college and they get indoctrinated with the most farthest left
Speaker 2: leaning rhetoric that makes no actual sense, No common sense.
Speaker 3: Person would speak like this, but they just say it
Speaker 3: because some.
Speaker 2: Professor and some club that they were a part of
Speaker 2: or whatever brainwash them into this.
Speaker 4: Thinking Yeah a lot, I mean.
Speaker 1: But that's the thing, though, is they feed the rhetoric
Speaker 1: in every class pretty much like if you talk like
Speaker 1: them and walk like them.
Speaker 4: You get a's yep, like real shit.
Speaker 1: If you have different opinions, you might have some teachers
Speaker 1: that are pretty cool and they're like, you know, are right,
Speaker 1: I don't agree with you, but I'll still still give
Speaker 1: you a good grade.
Speaker 4: They will, they will likely mark you down.
Speaker 1: Then you have other teachers that are very staunch in
Speaker 1: their bias and their opinions, and they want you to
Speaker 1: quack like them and walk like them and do all
Speaker 1: the things, and they will mark you down. I have
Speaker 1: had this happen. I actually proved it to the dean
Speaker 1: of the school that you know this. Actually it was
Speaker 1: a vaccine paper about gardasil, and my teacher was extremely
Speaker 1: extremely pro vaccine, of every vaccine you could possibly do
Speaker 1: for your children and everything else. So my initial paper
Speaker 1: I wrote was against vaccines, against specifically this vaccine, and
Speaker 1: I had lots of data proving why she gave me
Speaker 1: a D minus. I don't think I've ever received that
Speaker 1: low over grade in my life. And I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: oh no. So I talked to her and she was like, well,
Speaker 1: you could tell by the language in which she's speaking that.
Speaker 1: She was trying to be very politically correct and not
Speaker 1: saying I march you down because I don't agree with you.
Speaker 4: She found every other.
Speaker 1: Thing to try to pretty much say that this is incorrect,
Speaker 1: which this is not. I was like, okay, So I
Speaker 1: came back and what I did was is I wrote
Speaker 1: the same quality paper for the vaccine, with the same
Speaker 1: amount of information, coming from the same sources, by the way,
Speaker 1: and she gave me an a plus on it and
Speaker 1: just raved about it and wanted to use it and
Speaker 1: all this stuff. So then I took it to my
Speaker 1: counselor and all this stuff, and I took it up
Speaker 1: the chain and we had this whole conference and I said, okay, well,
Speaker 1: you have two papers that are identical in the way
Speaker 1: that they're written, identical in the sources that are being used,
Speaker 1: identical in the length and everything else. One is pro vaccine,
Speaker 1: which you are for. The other is I wouldn't say
Speaker 1: anti vax. It's simply saying that this vaccine has and
Speaker 1: will be continued to be extremely unsafe for women and
Speaker 1: now boys as well.
Speaker 4: And these are the reasons why.
Speaker 1: And you chose this paper because this is your bias
Speaker 1: and you want everyone to believe exactly what you believe,
Speaker 1: and the dean agreed and like, but of course nothing happened.
Speaker 1: Of course she's you know, still allowed to be teaching.
Speaker 1: And that's where the indoctrination comes into play with the
Speaker 1: colleges is the information that's being pushed out is very
Speaker 1: very i would say, left leaning when in how they
Speaker 1: because they don't want offend nobody and all the stuff
Speaker 1: and you know, blah blah, you have to use iservatives. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: but you have to use the language that they use.
Speaker 1: So you have to be extremely PC on everything you say,
Speaker 1: how you say it, the way that you approach it.
Speaker 4: You you don't want it. Like, but that's not with
Speaker 4: the liberals though.
Speaker 1: Like, if you're extremely liberal and you're having a conversation
Speaker 1: because we have these chatboards that we have to like
Speaker 1: message in, it's okay for you to say your opinion,
Speaker 1: but if you somehow insult their opinion, depending on the
Speaker 1: teacher and depending on the program and all the things,
Speaker 1: they will in fact mark you down or give you
Speaker 1: an f or tell you the hey, I've flagged your stuff,
Speaker 1: And then you have to have a conversation about how
Speaker 1: your behavior has now affected other students, and your guidance
Speaker 1: counselor is talking to you as a grown adult, like, hey,
Speaker 1: so that was really offensive. It's okay for the offensive
Speaker 1: party to be consistently doing this to everyone else, but
Speaker 1: if you say anything back, it's very much like oh no.
Speaker 1: And it's not just in one school. I have friends
Speaker 1: across the country. Ye, And I've attended multiple colleges across
Speaker 1: the country, and it is I will say, certain colleges
Speaker 1: are better. Other colleges are extremely liberal, and they will
Speaker 1: shove that shit down your throat. And that's where a
Speaker 1: lot of the indoctrination comes in, and the regurgitation of
Speaker 1: the same words on repeat, over and over and over
Speaker 1: again with the younger generation because they don't know what
Speaker 1: those words mean, and they are being told a speci narrative,
Speaker 1: and that narrative is being hounded into their brain, and
Speaker 1: that's how they think everything is supposed to be regardless
Speaker 1: of any other information.
Speaker 2: No, I agree with you one hundred percent. And see
Speaker 2: that's the thing. You ravenly are intelligent, and you are
Speaker 2: a freethinker. You're an independent thinker. So when some professor
Speaker 2: does this, you're able to call the bullshit and just
Speaker 2: kind of connect.
Speaker 1: I also was in my thirties, so like mid late twenties,
Speaker 1: early thirties going into this, and so that was a
Speaker 1: big difference, you know, I was late twenties and then
Speaker 1: going into my thirties. Verse an eighteen year old that
Speaker 1: has been already indoctrinated, realistically in the school system to
Speaker 1: follow the rules, not question, regurgitate everything that you're given.
Speaker 1: Do not have a free thinking brain, because that's incorrect.
Speaker 1: You're not supposed to be thinking. And that is the
Speaker 1: way the system in America is forced down these children's throat.
Speaker 1: You're not praised to be a thinker. You are praised
Speaker 1: to be cattle and to not have any free thought
Speaker 1: and to just do what you're supposed to do.
Speaker 4: Sit quietly, do this, do that, and that's it.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: So these kids are just listening.
Speaker 1: To this brainwash shit on repeat, and they have no
Speaker 1: freedom of thought, and they don't think that they can
Speaker 1: and they're not really trying to think outside of what's
Speaker 1: being taught to them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, one hundred percent. And so that's the point here.
Speaker 2: You're able to think for yourself. And people who I'm
Speaker 2: not even gonna say it, had a certain upbringing, because
Speaker 2: that's not necessarily true either. But you went to college
Speaker 2: when you were relatively older than your classmates.
Speaker 1: There's I started in college when I was so I
Speaker 1: started when I was sixteen. I went to a specialized program,
Speaker 1: I got into doing college classes, and even that, like
Speaker 1: back then though, we could talk about ideas. And then
Speaker 1: when I went to college again when I was a
Speaker 1: little bit older, when I graduated, you know, they.
Speaker 4: Were still you.
Speaker 1: It was the starting of I wouldn't say the starting
Speaker 1: of it, because this has been going on for decades.
Speaker 3: Oh but basically twenties.
Speaker 1: Oh yes, no, this has been going on for decades
Speaker 1: and decades, but the but I started to pick up
Speaker 1: on the patterns, and then when I got back from
Speaker 1: the Marine Corps, I really started to see the patterns
Speaker 1: for what they were. But I also have already had
Speaker 1: so much lived experience in my life to be able
Speaker 1: to see all this versus children that have no lived experience,
Speaker 1: and they are just realistically going from one institution to another,
Speaker 1: to being force fed one information, to confirming and buckling
Speaker 1: down on that same information as they're growing, and then
Speaker 1: all they see on social media is the same rhetoric
Speaker 1: that they're being fed.
Speaker 4: So there's no free thinking allowed exactly.
Speaker 2: And so getting back to the nineteen twenties, here, these
Speaker 2: kids were going to Cambridge University, large, very famous university,
Speaker 2: and they were being indoctrinated with communistic ideals. And we're
Speaker 2: going to talk about them and the work of what
Speaker 2: would become known as the Cambridge Five where Soviet Russia
Speaker 2: was using them to spy on the English government. And
Speaker 2: not only that, not just low levels, they had them
Speaker 2: infiltrate five six and then later their own media. Yes,
Speaker 2: Robert Maxwell, that whole thing we're talking about. Okay, all
Speaker 2: of this to give Soviet Russia intel on what the
Speaker 2: British government was doing. Because again, prior to World War Two,
Speaker 2: it's not like the Soviet Russia and the UK were homies,
Speaker 2: right the Cold War? Really, I know everybody says the
Speaker 2: Cold War started as soon as World War Two ended.
Speaker 2: That's not a factual statement. It might it's not an
Speaker 2: incorrect statement, but there's a lot to the backstory that
Speaker 2: people don't look at. In reality, the fascist Nazi Party
Speaker 2: and the Communist Soviet Union were actually allies in the
Speaker 2: very beginning of the war. There's this thing called the
Speaker 2: Ribbons Solf packed when Russia and Germany invaded Poland at
Speaker 2: the exact same time.
Speaker 3: They were on the same team.
Speaker 2: And regardless of what people might think, the Nazis didn't
Speaker 2: hate the Communists until the Communists went back on their agreement.
Speaker 2: They literally signed a treaty with each other, and Stalin
Speaker 2: said fuck that and went the opposite direction. And that
Speaker 2: is why more Communists were killed in the concentration camps
Speaker 2: and all these things like that absolutely took place.
Speaker 3: But prior to.
Speaker 2: World War Two, nineteen twenties, nineteen thirties, the Communist Party
Speaker 2: was growing all over Europe, all over the world. Hell,
Speaker 2: we had an American Communist Party that was springing up
Speaker 2: and still have one to this day. However, it is
Speaker 2: against federal law for any member of the Communist Party
Speaker 2: to hold a office period under penalty of jail time.
Speaker 2: There have been three elected in the last eighteen months.
Speaker 2: I was like, don't we have a three right now?
Speaker 2: They're at local city levels, but even still, by the
Speaker 2: letter of the federal law, they should all be prosecuted
Speaker 2: and serve jail time right now. And somehow nobody's enacting
Speaker 2: that law because feelings are.
Speaker 3: Something out fucking o hey, but it's at the point.
Speaker 3: It's other point. So the Cold War and.
Speaker 2: The reverberations of this where I should say the preverberations
Speaker 2: of this really started to be filed in the nineteen thirties, Okay,
Speaker 2: UK and America had a very very deep distrust of
Speaker 2: the Soviet Union and the communist ideals that were taking
Speaker 2: root all over the world. So Russia wanted some spies
Speaker 2: in England to speak on behalf of whatever the hell
Speaker 2: the British government was doing and what they were doing
Speaker 2: to spy on Russia. It was a strip up spy
Speaker 2: versus spy game, the mole finds the mole, the whole nine.
Speaker 2: And this is where a certain individual was reached out
Speaker 2: to and honey potted and in doctrinated to such a
Speaker 2: level that he started to bring in some of his friends.
Speaker 3: I'm not gonna say full on classmates.
Speaker 2: Although two of them I think were and started what
Speaker 2: would become known as the Cambridge Five. So, without further ado,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna go ahead and share the screen at this time.
Speaker 2: We're gonna get into the thick of it for anybody
Speaker 2: that would like to see what we were talking about
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Speaker 2: a gift from us to the individual that manic member
Speaker 2: of the Cult as a way of just saying, bro,
Speaker 2: thank you, thank you for supporting us, thank you for
Speaker 2: keeping the lights on, and thank you for keeping this
Speaker 2: this whole machine running, but without further ado. Let's get
Speaker 2: into it all, right, So this is actually from a
Speaker 2: newsreel talking about the things that came out later on
Speaker 2: about the Cambridge five in I five files revealed the secrets. Now,
Speaker 2: for those that do not know m I five and
Speaker 2: I six, what are the differences, you might ask? M
Speaker 2: I five would be more attributed to like the FBI.
Speaker 2: They handle internal matters as far as you know, national
Speaker 2: security spy things, doing investigations, all the things that's in
Speaker 2: MY five six is like the CIA, they handle the
Speaker 2: international affairs and they do that level of spycraft and
Speaker 2: fieldwork and these types of things. So this conversation of
Speaker 2: the Cambridge five that traverses both some of it was five,
Speaker 2: some of it was six. However, the MI five investigation
Speaker 2: into it is what we're talking about.
Speaker 3: Let's get into it.
Speaker 1: Well.
Speaker 5: They sound like something out of a Bond film, except
Speaker 5: they're very real. The Cambridge five British spies who fed
Speaker 5: secrets to the Soviet Union during the Cold War. I
Speaker 5: five has declassified a trophy of files, including equipment, training manuals,
Speaker 5: and first hand accounts from the infamous university students turned agents.
Speaker 5: Among the five Kim Philby, who went on to become
Speaker 5: a senior figure at six before his deception was discovered.
Speaker 5: The files reveal he met with a man named Otto
Speaker 5: in nineteen thirty four. At the insistence of his wife,
Speaker 5: a Communist Party member, Philby fled to Moscow after his confession.
Speaker 5: In twenty ten, another member, Anthony Blunt, worked for the
Speaker 5: late Queen Elizabeth as an art advisor and eventually confessed
Speaker 5: in exchange for immunity. However, her Majesty was not informed
Speaker 5: of his involvement for almost a decade. In truly regal fashion,
Speaker 5: a note among the collections says the Queen took the
Speaker 5: news calmly and said she was not surprised.
Speaker 2: Okay, so we're gonna talk about all five of them.
Speaker 2: Only two of the names are just dropped. However, Wow,
Speaker 2: the royal family gets brought in on this one because,
Speaker 2: come to find out, there, for lack of better words,
Speaker 2: their art guy, the one that made sure that they
Speaker 2: had the art, their surveyor who was like buying really
Speaker 2: expensive pieces of art for them, a historian all these things,
Speaker 2: who was very intimately connected with the British royal family
Speaker 2: was a part of this and was feeding the Soviets
Speaker 2: information about the Royals, while the other side of it
Speaker 2: was feeding them information about the government, right, because the
Speaker 2: Royals and the government are separate somehow in Britain, but
Speaker 2: somehow still connected.
Speaker 3: It's very interesting, but beside the point.
Speaker 2: So, come to find out they knew that he was
Speaker 2: a communist and said nothing. They kept him in the
Speaker 2: loop for years, knowing that he was a communist and
Speaker 2: probably a spy, and they just didn't care.
Speaker 4: That's really odd, Like why would they do that.
Speaker 2: Because the British Royal family are fucking retarded.
Speaker 3: I don't know what to say on that, honestly, but
Speaker 3: all right, let's talk about it here.
Speaker 2: This is a quick little article from Skyscape the Cambridge
Speaker 2: spy scandal that haunts Britain. So the Cambridge five tensions
Speaker 2: rise between US and Britain. US confidence and British intelligence
Speaker 2: nosedived during the Cold War after a ring of Cambridge
Speaker 2: University educated spies working for the British government smuggled intelligence
Speaker 2: to the KGB. The KGB, for anybody who does not know,
Speaker 2: is the Soviet Union's version of the CIA. The got
Speaker 2: disband It's now called the.
Speaker 3: OSP or something. I forget The acronyms. It doesn't matter.
Speaker 3: Russia's busy in Ukraine right now.
Speaker 2: But whatever, we're talking about this timeframe, the KGB, which
Speaker 2: is where Vladimir Putin got his start. People should know
Speaker 2: that he was a top dog and a fixer for
Speaker 2: the KGB agents. Anyway, the Furer or the Furr, I
Speaker 2: should say, erupted. I said the furor God, not Hitler,
Speaker 2: Not Hitler, the fur erupted. When Guy Burgess and Donald MacLean,
Speaker 2: two of these so called Cambridge Five, disappeared in nineteen
Speaker 2: fifty one. They had defected and later resurfaced in Moscow.
Speaker 2: Both were hopeless drunks, unstable and promiscuous characters who've been
Speaker 2: appointed to top jobs in London at the British Embassy
Speaker 2: in Washington, d C. So yeah, this also comes into
Speaker 2: play here. Their handler, which was also a member of
Speaker 2: the of the Cambridge Five, basically chose these two dudes. Specifically,
Speaker 2: one of them was a classmate of his at Cambridge
Speaker 2: and a friend of his. The other one they kind
Speaker 2: of found along the way, and he used them both
Speaker 2: to work at the US Embassy.
Speaker 3: In Washington, d C.
Speaker 2: One of them was like the agent in DC, the
Speaker 2: other one was the agent kind of relaying back above
Speaker 2: board without the spycraft, relaying the information from the British
Speaker 2: embassy to the British Parliament and.
Speaker 3: All these things in England. Both of them were spies.
Speaker 2: Both of them were spies, and essentially one of them
Speaker 2: got compromised. And so your boy top dog told Burgess, hey, listen,
Speaker 2: Donald has been made. You need to go to Britain
Speaker 2: right now. And you tell him to get out and
Speaker 2: go to Russia right now. But and he was very
Speaker 2: very specific on this, do not go with him. One
Speaker 2: spy that got caught and defected. We could brush that
Speaker 2: over both of you. There's no way that I can
Speaker 2: make this look good on paper, because keep in mind,
Speaker 2: he was the top dog for finding the spies. Believe
Speaker 2: it or not, the guy who was charged with finding
Speaker 2: the spies was a spy.
Speaker 1: What.
Speaker 4: That's some crazy shit, To be honest with you.
Speaker 3: It gets so ridiculous the more you look into it.
Speaker 3: But we're gonna go more.
Speaker 4: It is James Bond shitt hardcore.
Speaker 3: It legitimately is. Everybody thinks that, oh the James Bond,
Speaker 3: Oh that's just a movie. It's this.
Speaker 2: Listen, some of the villains in the Bond movies are
Speaker 2: a bit extra because it is books, right, Okay, that
Speaker 2: doesn't mean that this level of spycraft isn't real or
Speaker 2: born right or or oh what's that other guy, Jack Reacher,
Speaker 2: like these things that we see of, like this level
Speaker 2: of internal affairs, these levels of top secret information sharing
Speaker 2: in all of this. No, no, this is real life
Speaker 2: that really happens. And that is why I thought it
Speaker 2: was a fun one for us to talk about on
Speaker 2: this episode of The Cult Conspiracy. But anyway, so when
Speaker 2: he told Guy to go to Donald face to face
Speaker 2: because we can't trust the lines and get him the
Speaker 2: fuck out of here, do not go with him, Guy
Speaker 2: panicked and they both defected to Russia at the exact
Speaker 2: same time, putting crosshairs on your boy. But we're gonna
Speaker 2: talk about it more.
Speaker 3: Let's go.
Speaker 2: The British Embassy reported back that the internal incident had
Speaker 2: severely shaken the State Department's confidence in the integrity of
Speaker 2: the officials of the Foreign Office. The Americans pointed to
Speaker 2: the drunkenness right, recurrent nervous breakdown, sexual deviations, and other
Speaker 2: human frailities were considered security hazards and dismissible offenses. Furthermore,
Speaker 2: the US advised Britain to clean house, regardless.
Speaker 3: Of whom may be hurt.
Speaker 2: According to a declassified paper release by Britain's National Archives.
Speaker 2: Now the guy in question, top dog, the dude who
Speaker 2: made the call and told him to get out.
Speaker 3: But don't go with him.
Speaker 2: All this, this is the guy, Kim Philby. This is
Speaker 2: the critical centerpiece of the Cambridge five. The unmasking of
Speaker 2: the first two of the Cambridge five came a little
Speaker 2: more than a year after the nineteen forty nine arrests
Speaker 2: of nuclear spy Klaus Fuchs.
Speaker 3: Pretty sure he's pronouncing it doesn't matter. It could be fucks.
Speaker 2: So the relationship between British and US intelligence was further
Speaker 2: compromised when Britain was dealt a third blow. Kim Philby,
Speaker 2: Britain's chief liaison with the American intelligence agencies in the
Speaker 2: in Washington, d C, was a member of the spy ring.
Speaker 2: So it's not like he was an embassy guy. He
Speaker 2: was I six's contact with the CIA.
Speaker 3: Wow, the guy who was.
Speaker 1: Listening, these were all that distrust and everyone is working
Speaker 1: for it.
Speaker 4: Vibe started absolutely absolutely.
Speaker 2: He gave somewhere around nine hundred secrets to the Soviet
Speaker 2: Union on behalf of either England or America. It was
Speaker 2: it's a mess not to mention all of what his
Speaker 2: boys gave him.
Speaker 3: And yeah, we'll talk about it more here.
Speaker 2: So the Philby's betrayal was not just an embarrassment for Britain,
Speaker 2: it was a threat to the US national security. Philby
Speaker 2: had worked closely with James Jesus Engleton, CIA chief of
Speaker 2: counter Intelligence, and the britt Liaise with the FBI at
Speaker 2: a time when the Director j Edgar Hoover was convinced
Speaker 2: that the Soviet spies were everywhere.
Speaker 3: Come to find out, Jay Edgar was correct.
Speaker 2: Well, listen, I think he was also a deplorable human being,
Speaker 2: like a raging piece of shit, But that doesn't mean
Speaker 2: that he was incorrect when it came to this. It's
Speaker 2: crazy that he had dirt on every single president up
Speaker 2: until Nixon. And you know he did that as a
Speaker 2: way to protect himself and keep his job. So he
Speaker 2: knew the level of spycraft that he was willing to
Speaker 2: do to his own country. You're telling me that the
Speaker 2: Soviets don't have something similar going on. But people thought
Speaker 2: he was crazy, People thought that he was out of
Speaker 2: the box on that. Come to find out he was
Speaker 2: one percent correct. Philby had been briefed on Washington's Venona Project,
Speaker 2: a program to decrypt top secret messages transmitted by Soviet
Speaker 2: Union intelligence agents, including the KGB. We'll talk about that
Speaker 2: more in a bit too, because the guy who actually
Speaker 2: decoded the messages came to his contact with the international
Speaker 2: intelligence community to tell him, Hey, bro, I guess I
Speaker 2: figured out the code. I cracked the codes coming in
Speaker 2: from Russia, and I know there's two spies. They think
Speaker 2: there might be a third, But there's two spies in
Speaker 2: DC right now I have I'm really close to figuring
Speaker 2: out the uh the name of one of them, and
Speaker 2: I'm about to start working on the second. Come to
Speaker 2: find out the second was Philby himself, and the guy
Speaker 2: he was telling this to was Philby.
Speaker 4: Was he able to get out or did he get caught?
Speaker 3: Well, I want to jump too far ahead of the
Speaker 3: story here.
Speaker 2: Right, Let's talk about Philby is suspected of tipping off
Speaker 2: MacLean and Burgess, telling them their covers were blown. But remarkably,
Speaker 2: Philby continued to operate for more than a decade before
Speaker 2: Philby two defected.
Speaker 3: To Moscow in nineteen sixty three. Yeah, so let's talk
Speaker 3: about Philby's memoirs Panic Stations.
Speaker 2: So this is a book and we're going to read
Speaker 2: excerpt from it here in a bit. It's not altogether
Speaker 2: surprising that the Panics set in as Downing Street, which
Speaker 2: is their version of like Landing Downing Streets, where their
Speaker 2: agencies are based out of learned about the next problem.
Speaker 3: In nineteen sixty eight, Philby was.
Speaker 2: Shopping his memoirs around through Knowlton and American literary agent,
Speaker 2: and it seemed like his book My Silent War would
Speaker 2: be published or serialized in the US, UK and France.
Speaker 2: Philby's friend I six officer and author Graham Green, would
Speaker 2: write the introduction. Among many secrets revealed Philby's manuscript said
Speaker 2: that five bugged the British Communist Party's office in London.
Speaker 2: According to the government papers filed in the National Archives
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty, Britain's secret state swung into action. The
Speaker 2: UK government conjured up a non existent French double agent
Speaker 2: as a red herring to dissuade journalists from looking into
Speaker 2: closely or too closely into Phillipby's manuscript.
Speaker 3: According to the National Archives, so just so we're clear.
Speaker 2: When they realized that they were cooked, and they realized
Speaker 2: that there was nothing they could do to protect their image,
Speaker 2: they made up a whole story about some sort of
Speaker 2: a French double agent that was not real, just to
Speaker 2: run a story. They had pictures of the guy, they
Speaker 2: had a whole backstory for this guy.
Speaker 3: He never existed ever. But they did this as a
Speaker 3: way to say, oh, Philby's lying just to sell books.
Speaker 3: That's not what happened.
Speaker 2: Even though one of these stories was a complete fabrication
Speaker 2: and the other story had name, dates, records, locations and
Speaker 2: everything could be verified. So not a good look. So
Speaker 2: this is from the National Archives. In nineteen sixty eight,
Speaker 2: the British government urged the Sunday Times to write about
Speaker 2: a Soviet agent in France, which the journalists did, suggesting
Speaker 2: the spy was one of President Charles de Gaulle's staff.
Speaker 2: The Foreign Officer Sir Dennis Greenhill suggested reporters look into
Speaker 2: Leon Urist's novel Topaz, which he claimed was based on
Speaker 2: real Soviet networks operating in France, and Roy Jenkins, then
Speaker 2: Home Secretary, warned the Prime Minister that Philby's manuscript might
Speaker 2: expose another mole, Sir Anthony Blunt, the Queen's art advisor.
Speaker 3: So this all was.
Speaker 2: The Queen knew about it, but they didn't make it
Speaker 2: public until they couldn't hide it anymore and they had
Speaker 2: to acknowledge. Yeah, we knew he was a COMI and
Speaker 2: this and this, and it's like wait, so wait, how
Speaker 2: long was he employed after you found out? It was
Speaker 2: a long time ago.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 2: It's it's embarrassing start to finish. So Cambridge five, the
Speaker 2: fourth Spy emerges. The fourth man of Cambridge five was
Speaker 2: now in play. In nineteen sixty four, Cambridge alumnus Anthony Blunt,
Speaker 2: which actually hailed a noble title from family lineage believe
Speaker 2: it or not, admitted he'd spied for the Stalinist Russia.
Speaker 2: The confession shocked the Royal family and Britain's secret services,
Speaker 2: but was hushed up, with Blunt being.
Speaker 3: Offered immunity if he confessed.
Speaker 2: The deal cut by Britain's Home Office, and I five
Speaker 2: was so secretive even the Prime Minister at the time,
Speaker 2: Alec Douglas Home, didn't know about it. National Archives documents
Speaker 2: showed Douglas Home found out about Blunt's betrayal in November
Speaker 2: of nineteen seventy nine, when Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher.
Speaker 3: Exposed Blunt in the House of Commons.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you could still find and I'll have it pulled
Speaker 2: up here, but you could still find excerpts from her
Speaker 2: address to Parliament.
Speaker 3: When she talks about the exposure of this group.
Speaker 2: Blunt had been recruited by Stalin sig Curity Agency the
Speaker 2: People's Commissariat Commissariat I don't know, for internal affairs in
Speaker 2: the nineteen thirties, and he later joined the British Army
Speaker 2: and I five before embarking on a career as an
Speaker 2: art historian and Queen Elizabeth's personal curator.
Speaker 1: Wow, that's crazy that he was this close to the
Speaker 1: royal family and they didn't do anything about.
Speaker 3: It, and you know, just throwing it out here.
Speaker 2: So the guy that's installing all of the paintings in
Speaker 2: Buckingham Palace, you mean he was a spy that could
Speaker 2: have been installing microphones and all this shit the entire
Speaker 2: way through, And it's like, yeah, why wouldn't you choose Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's the guy that's clearly the guy you would choose,
Speaker 2: because no one's gonna question the art curator. No one's
Speaker 2: gonna look deeper into the frame of this painting that
Speaker 2: this guy brought him from Vienna, Right, nobody's gonna ask
Speaker 2: these questions. This is clearly the objective guy to put
Speaker 2: into that position.
Speaker 4: M hmm.
Speaker 2: So he also he was also a talent spotter for
Speaker 2: potential recruits at Cambridge University, among them John Cancross and
Speaker 2: Michael Strait, the reluctant American spy and former editor of
Speaker 2: the New Republic magazine. Straight was also an advisor on
Speaker 2: arts endowments with the Kennedy administration and an unpaid economics
Speaker 2: advisor for the US State Department. Straight the American, had
Speaker 2: a change of heart, however, and made his break with
Speaker 2: the Soviets in nineteen forty one and revealed all.
Speaker 3: To the FBI.
Speaker 2: In his autobiography After Long Silence, Straight described dining with
Speaker 2: only members of the Cambridge Ring in London. Quote, I learned,
Speaker 2: to my dismay that Anthony Blunt had been engaged in
Speaker 2: intelligence work throughout the war, he wrote. So Straight was
Speaker 2: recruited and then came clean about everything in nineteen forty one,
Speaker 2: before America even entered World War Two. This guy came
Speaker 2: forwards like, hey, y'all, I'm sorry, I fucked up. However,
Speaker 2: John Cairncross is the fifth man to this organization of
Speaker 2: the Cambridge Five. John Cairncross is often mooted as the
Speaker 2: fifth man. He was a Scottish and from a middle
Speaker 2: class background, but he studied modern language at the sore
Speaker 2: Bone in Paris and at Trinity College in Cambridge. Jeff
Speaker 2: Andrew's autobiography Agent Molier The Life of John Cairncross, suggests
Speaker 2: the spy was motivated by his disdain for the British
Speaker 2: ruling class and his intellectual and cultural affinity with anti fascists.
Speaker 2: His treason was astonishing while at Bletchley Park, which I
Speaker 2: gotta tell you it's a weird name, but okay, Karen
Speaker 2: Cross stuffed his briefcase and trousers with unredacted Enigma data
Speaker 2: to hand over to the Russians assisting in the Red
Speaker 2: Army in the Battle of Kersk against the Nazi forces
Speaker 2: in nineteen forty three. The Enigma, Just so everybody is clear,
Speaker 2: that is the code that the Nazis were using. And
Speaker 2: it took us forever to break this encryption. It was
Speaker 2: if I'm not mistaken, it's been a while since I
Speaker 2: looked into this. It basically was like a cipher and
Speaker 2: you had to use certain letters, had a certain designation
Speaker 2: and meant a certain thing. But there was a weird
Speaker 2: mathematical order to it as well. If anybody's curious, what
Speaker 2: like IBM the computer company, what they were doing during
Speaker 2: World War Two, they were creating Nazi Germany's Enigma machines
Speaker 2: to encrypt their messages.
Speaker 3: Just raw clear. Yeah, it's weird.
Speaker 2: You look at the companies that are around today that
Speaker 2: were clearly Nazi groups like Hugo Boss and Coco, Chanel, Volkswagen.
Speaker 2: There's a ton Basically, it's like one of the rules
Speaker 2: of history. Don't ask what any German company was doing
Speaker 2: from nineteen thirty eight to nineteen forty five, and it's like,
Speaker 2: you know, eh. Anyway, Anyway, his work as the private
Speaker 2: secretary of Sir Morris Hanky, a member of the committee
Speaker 2: that supervised the British Atomic Program, would have allowed him
Speaker 2: access to the reports he is suspected of passing to
Speaker 2: the Soviets. So not only was he passing off Enigma
Speaker 2: secrets to the Soviets, which helped them in the Battle
Speaker 2: of the Curse against the Nazis, which for the record,
Speaker 2: the encryption key was hal Hitler. Once you plugged that
Speaker 2: statement into the Enigma, it all laid.
Speaker 3: Out and you could read everything that the Nazis were
Speaker 3: saying to each other. Yeah, it's like using password as
Speaker 3: your fucking password. Like, grow up, dude. But anyway, you've
Speaker 3: never done that.
Speaker 2: No, No, when you were a kid, sure, but like
Speaker 2: as an adult, like you know, there's so many things
Speaker 2: you can make secure and like that they make it
Speaker 2: for you even But anyway, beside that point, So, not
Speaker 2: only did he do that, he also stole atomic secrets.
Speaker 2: Because every country had an atomic program at this time,
Speaker 2: right the Nazis were working on it, the British working
Speaker 2: on it, the Japanese were working on it. The Americans
Speaker 2: were the first people to successfully make it. And that's
Speaker 2: why whenever this went down we dropped the atomic bomb
Speaker 2: on Japan, they didn't realize that we actually were that
Speaker 2: far along because their nuclear scientists knew how difficult this
Speaker 2: would have been to make happen. They thought there was
Speaker 2: no way America actually has an atomic bomb, and then
Speaker 2: when we dropped on Hiroshima.
Speaker 3: They sent their experts out there to see, okay, was this.
Speaker 2: Actually an atomic bomb or was this like a really
Speaker 2: big dynamite explosion that they're trying to say it was
Speaker 2: an automic bomb. Dudes go out take some samples and
Speaker 2: they're like, no, no, they absolutely just launched an atomic bomb.
Speaker 2: And then they're like, well, there's no way they have
Speaker 2: more than one, Like we've been working on this for
Speaker 2: years and we're not even close.
Speaker 3: There's no way they've.
Speaker 2: Got more than one we dropped on on Nagasaki. And
Speaker 2: then they're like, okay, so how many do they have.
Speaker 2: There was a downed pilot. I forget the guy's name.
Speaker 2: I wish came. I have his face in my head.
Speaker 2: He looks like a shit stir like he looks like
Speaker 2: a guy that you cannot trust, like he's up to
Speaker 2: no good. They were interrogating him, and ah god, I
Speaker 2: wish I could remember the exact quotes. It's hilarious because
Speaker 2: like they're like, tell us about these bombs, and he's like,
Speaker 2: he's just a low level like Mustang pilot. He has
Speaker 2: no fucking clue about what they're doing with this Manhattan project.
Speaker 2: But he had known that America was working on it,
Speaker 2: and he had a buddy of his who used to
Speaker 2: be a teacher who was serving with him that tried
Speaker 2: explaining what was going on when a nuke would go
Speaker 2: off hypothetically of course, and so he just kind of
Speaker 2: started using that. They were like, well, tell us about
Speaker 2: this bomb. He's like, I don't know anything about a bomb.
Speaker 2: They beat the shit out of him, and they pulled
Speaker 2: out a samurai so where they're about to be at him,
Speaker 2: and he's.
Speaker 3: Like, oh, that bomb, yeo, let me tell you all
Speaker 3: about it, and like let's go.
Speaker 2: So he's like, so listen, as you know, when the
Speaker 2: bomb is dropped, there's a lot of pluses and minuses
Speaker 2: that get released, obviously, And these people were like, oh
Speaker 2: my god, this guy knows what he's talking about. He
Speaker 2: meant positive and negative, like components of it, like an
Speaker 2: electron and a neutron, and he but he didn't know
Speaker 2: what the fuck he was talking about because he's not
Speaker 2: that level of educated. So he was able to fucking
Speaker 2: trapes and Drew and get these boys convinced that he
Speaker 2: knew what these things were.
Speaker 3: And they're like, how many does America have. He's like thousands, oh, thousands,
Speaker 3: and they're.
Speaker 4: Like, wait, what are some thousands?
Speaker 3: That is the only reason why the Emperor surrendered. Just
Speaker 3: so we're clear, there's people, there's people that will say
Speaker 3: that that's because actually Japan surrendered because the Soviets had
Speaker 3: just invaded Manchuria, which is China, which Japan had occupied
Speaker 3: at that time, and.
Speaker 2: Clearly that's why they surrendered. Russia was not a threat
Speaker 2: to Japan. They had no navy. The plan for Russia
Speaker 2: to have a mainland invasion into Japan meant they had
Speaker 2: to use US ships. Them invading Mancheria played no part
Speaker 2: in Japan surrendering in World War Two, And as a
Speaker 2: matter of fact, the Japanese sources will say the exact
Speaker 2: same thing is it didn't just me going off on
Speaker 2: a tangent, but beside the point. So this guy's saying,
Speaker 2: they had thousands of these atomic bombs, they're cranking them
Speaker 2: out as fast as they can pop up up. Finally,
Speaker 2: Japan brings in one of their nuclear scientists and like,
Speaker 2: ask this guy the same question, and within thirty seconds
Speaker 2: he's like, yeah, you have no fucking clue what you're
Speaker 2: talking about.
Speaker 1: Dude.
Speaker 3: He's like, no, not at all.
Speaker 2: He's like, the why we've been lying, He's like, because
Speaker 2: they were about to fucking behead me, dude. He's like, okay, yeah,
Speaker 2: that makes sense, that checks out. But it did in
Speaker 2: fact lead to Japan's surrendering. But anyway, so every country
Speaker 2: that was really a key player had an atomic program,
Speaker 2: and they were it was a race to see who
Speaker 2: could develop the atomic bomb first. America just happened to
Speaker 2: be the one across the finish line before any others. Anyway,
Speaker 2: So the Cambridge five, the end of an era, Soviet
Speaker 2: defector Oleg Gordevski fingered care and cross.
Speaker 3: I really hate that expression. When you finger somebody for
Speaker 3: a crime. Bro, you couldn't just say pointing him out.
Speaker 1: I don't know if I've ever heard that expression. I
Speaker 1: don't feel like I have. Oh maybe I'm just really
Speaker 1: tired and like whatever. And but it's that's a weird one.
Speaker 1: That's an old there's a lot of there's a lot
Speaker 1: of weird expressions.
Speaker 2: So have you ever watched the show Dragnet No, an
Speaker 2: old detective show from way back in the day. But
Speaker 2: it's like she wrote, I don't think they would use
Speaker 2: that murder, she wrote, it's like older than that, Like
Speaker 2: we're talking nineteen fifties.
Speaker 3: They'd be like, oh yeah, so we had a murder.
Speaker 3: Don't worry.
Speaker 1: I already fingered the part for the crime. And it's
Speaker 1: like it's a oh okay, yeah, no I have now that.
Speaker 1: It's just been a long time since I've heard it.
Speaker 3: It's not something common. And then an hour, day and age,
Speaker 3: it's like you could have even if you just use that. No, no, Raven,
Speaker 3: don't because then people are going to look at you
Speaker 3: like you did what to who? Like?
Speaker 4: But you're welcome and just walk away straight face, I.
Speaker 3: Fingered the suspect, we got him, you did what what? Yep?
Speaker 4: You are welcome.
Speaker 2: That actually might get you a harassment charge these days,
Speaker 2: honestly god. But anyway, so he pointed out care Cross
Speaker 2: as a spy in his nineteen ninety book KGB The
Speaker 2: Inside Story, but Cancross was never charged and died of
Speaker 2: a stroke in England in nineteen ninety five. He is
Speaker 2: actually the only member of the Cambridge Five to make
Speaker 2: his way back to England and die of old age.
Speaker 2: Somehow he was allowed to come back home after all
Speaker 2: these things.
Speaker 3: But anyway, how we'll talk about it.
Speaker 2: More So, Burgess remained in Russia died of fifty two
Speaker 2: of acute liver failure.
Speaker 3: Again, he was a raging alcoholic.
Speaker 2: MacLean reportedly died of cancer at sixty nine and was
Speaker 2: cremated in Moscow, hailed as a quote faithful son and
Speaker 2: citizen of the state of the Soviet State.
Speaker 3: I'm just we're all clear here.
Speaker 2: Anthony Blunt was stripped of his knighthood and lived as
Speaker 2: a recluse in London until his death from a heart
Speaker 2: attack at the age of seventy five. And as for
Speaker 2: Kim Philby, the most notorious of the Cambridge Five, he
Speaker 2: passed away in nineteen eighty eight at the age of
Speaker 2: seventy six, having spent twenty five years of his life
Speaker 2: in Moscow. His wife I'm not going to pronounce that name,
Speaker 2: told this newspaper that Philby was delusioned with Communism by
Speaker 2: the end of his life or disillusions, I should say,
Speaker 2: tortured by his failings, and drank himself to death. It's
Speaker 2: also should be noted each of these individuals that made
Speaker 2: their way to Moscow was forced under house arrest for
Speaker 2: a decade apiece. So even after these guys in Moscow, yes, yes,
Speaker 2: because they couldn't be trusted. What so you were willing
Speaker 2: to turn your back on your home country, where your
Speaker 2: family lives, your mama lives here, and you're willing to
Speaker 2: sell them out for us. How the fuck can I
Speaker 2: trust you now that you're in my house?
Speaker 4: No?
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: Ten years of their lives they had to stay in
Speaker 1: house arrest because they were willing to be spies.
Speaker 3: Yep, what yep, it's fucked that.
Speaker 4: It's just Jamaica or something.
Speaker 3: Oh fuck that, Fuck all of them.
Speaker 2: I hoped that they would get a slow, torturous death,
Speaker 2: but instead they all died of normal.
Speaker 3: Things I guess, but mealy, alcohol, that's Russia. There's nothing
Speaker 3: to do except eat borsched and fucking drink vodka, which
Speaker 3: Borsch is fucking gross. But anyway, let's get more into
Speaker 3: it here.
Speaker 2: So there's actually a TV series that came out about
Speaker 2: it called Cambridge Spies. It was on in two thousand
Speaker 2: and three is when it was released. I haven't seen
Speaker 2: it yet, but it's on Prime if anybody is curious.
Speaker 2: I am actually wanting to check this out. It seems
Speaker 2: like it's a pretty good flick. But anyway, all right,
Speaker 2: moving forward here, so let's go deeper into the Cambridge five. Right,
Speaker 2: Let's talk about all these things in depth. The Cambridge
Speaker 2: Five was a spy ring in the United Kingdom that
Speaker 2: passed information to the Soviet Urine Union during the Second War,
Speaker 2: World War, and the Cold War, and was active from
Speaker 2: the nineteen thirties until at least the early nineteen fifties.
Speaker 2: None of the known members were ever prosecuted for spying.
Speaker 2: The number and membership of the ring emerged slowly from
Speaker 2: the nineteen fifties onward. So again we just read about this.
Speaker 2: None of them ever saw jail time. The one that
Speaker 2: was found in the Queen's court, so to speak, was
Speaker 2: stripped of his title and basically died a recluse, but
Speaker 2: he never saw the inside of a prison cell. All
Speaker 2: the other members that were absolutely a part of this
Speaker 2: made their way to Moscow and they were under house
Speaker 2: arrest there, but they were never prosecuted for their crimes,
Speaker 2: including the two dudes that were in America spying on
Speaker 2: us on behalf of Britain, on behalf of Russia.
Speaker 4: How is that possible? Like he would think that somebody
Speaker 4: would hold them accountable.
Speaker 2: They got out before the snare could close on them fully, essentially,
Speaker 2: so let's read more here.
Speaker 3: None of us talked about the general public.
Speaker 2: First became aware of the conspiracy in nineteen fifty one
Speaker 2: after the sudden flight of Don McLean in he was
Speaker 2: code named Homer and Guy Burgess code named Hicks, to
Speaker 2: the Soviet Union. Suspicion immediately fell on Kim Philby, who
Speaker 2: co named Sonny or Stanley, who eventually fled to the
Speaker 2: Soviet Union in sixty three. Following Philby's flight, British intelligence
Speaker 2: obtained confessions from Anthony Blunt. And for the record, I
Speaker 2: looked this up too, actually because I was curious James Blunt,
Speaker 2: the singer.
Speaker 3: I was curious if there was a family tie here.
Speaker 2: No, no, because actually James James Blunt's birth name is
Speaker 2: Blount b l be fair.
Speaker 1: That dude is ridiculous if you actually watch him, some
Speaker 1: of his stuff and the shit he talks.
Speaker 4: Because like, I was high as fuck and I just
Speaker 4: made this like whatever, Oh.
Speaker 3: Your boy is a veteran, he guns, Yeah he is.
Speaker 1: He is hilarious and actually like what he says and does. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I actually I watched all about him shreaz and I'm like, oh, okay.
Speaker 2: Your boy joins the I don't know if it was
Speaker 2: the Royal Marines or the RAF or what, but he
Speaker 2: joins the British military, does a couple of tours in Afghanistan,
Speaker 2: stacks a couple of bodies for the queen you know,
Speaker 2: comes home, cuts a couple of you know, number one
Speaker 2: musical number chart things and all this stuff, and then
Speaker 2: he just kind of dips off and now he just
Speaker 2: stirs the pot on the social media's.
Speaker 3: I gotta say, I'm a massive fan of him. I
Speaker 3: like him a lot. He's funny, he's great.
Speaker 2: But no, so there is no connection between James Blunt
Speaker 2: birth name Blount Blount and Anthony Blunt. I was curious,
Speaker 2: but anyway, his code name was Johnson and then John
Speaker 2: Cairncross code name LITZI or Litzt, who have come to
Speaker 2: be seen as the last two of the group of five.
Speaker 2: So it's very possible that there was more. Just so
Speaker 2: we're all clear. The name is a bit off putting
Speaker 2: that there was the Cambridge five. The five didn't know
Speaker 2: each other three o ka five. Three of the five
Speaker 2: knew each other, but the fact that all five of
Speaker 2: them were Cambridge graduates, the newspapers gave them the title
Speaker 2: of the Cambridge Five.
Speaker 1: I thought they all honestly knew each other and were
Speaker 1: working in tandem with each other.
Speaker 4: That's what I was figuring going on.
Speaker 3: You would think with the title like that, you would
Speaker 3: think it so.
Speaker 2: But apparently your boy Karen Cross and Blunt they knew
Speaker 2: each other, and then Burgess, MacLean and Philby all knew
Speaker 2: each other. But these two were operating completely separately. Like
Speaker 2: I said, so, Kim Philby, Don and MacLean and Guy
Speaker 2: Burgess they were all working with I five and six
Speaker 2: at that level of the British Intel Service. Blunt was
Speaker 2: working in the Royal Household as their art curator, and
Speaker 2: then Careen Cross he was working with their telecommunications network
Speaker 2: to steal information about that. But he wasn't necessarily in
Speaker 2: cahoots with them, or at least there's not much evidence
Speaker 2: to say such so. Anyway, And also to prove this point,
Speaker 2: this is Kim Philby on a stamp in Soviet Union,
Speaker 2: so he got out regarded as a Russian hero even
Speaker 2: though he was on house arrest for ten years.
Speaker 4: That is why I'm like, wait, what, like, how are
Speaker 4: you a Russian hero?
Speaker 3: And then house arrest in Soviet Russia we arrest hero too.
Speaker 3: I know, it's crazy, it's crazy.
Speaker 4: Everybody gets the same treatment.
Speaker 3: Everybody equals everybody's doing time in this bitch. It's like, wait,
Speaker 3: what yeah, yeah, it.
Speaker 4: Rased my whole life for this fuck Yeah.
Speaker 3: Dude, all right, so let's get more into it.
Speaker 2: So the group was recruited by the NKVD during their
Speaker 2: education at the University of Cambridge. The NKVD, just so
Speaker 2: we're all clear, here is the People's Commisserate for Internal Affairs.
Speaker 2: It's the Soviet Union version of this, right, so, but
Speaker 2: the exact timing is debated. Blunt claimed that they were
Speaker 2: not recruited as agents until after they had graduated. A
Speaker 2: fellow of Trinity College, Blunt was several years older than
Speaker 2: Burgess McLean and Philby, and he acted as a talent
Speaker 2: and recruiter. The five were convinced that Marxism and Leninism
Speaker 2: of the Soviet Communism was the best available political system
Speaker 2: and the best defense against fascism. Never mind the fact
Speaker 2: that the fascists and the Soviets worked together at the
Speaker 2: beginning of the war. We're not talking about that apparently,
Speaker 2: but yes, clearly, all pursued successful careers in branches of
Speaker 2: British government.
Speaker 3: They passed large.
Speaker 2: Amounts of intelligence to the Soviets, so much so that
Speaker 2: the KGB became suspicious that at least some of it
Speaker 2: was false. They were so successful that the KGB was like,
Speaker 2: there's no way they got this much intel.
Speaker 3: There's no fucking way.
Speaker 2: Well, come to find out it was perhaps as important
Speaker 2: as the specific state secrets was the demoralizing effect to
Speaker 2: the British establishment of their slow unmasking and the mistrust
Speaker 2: in British security this caused in the United States. So
Speaker 2: again we're going to talk about the h the membership
Speaker 2: here a little bit here. I do want to bring
Speaker 2: this up here. So Yuri Moden, who later reported to
Speaker 2: the Soviet intelligence mistrust of the Cambridge of double agents
Speaker 2: during the Second World War and had difficulty believing that
Speaker 2: the men who would have access to top secret documents.
Speaker 2: They were particularly suspicious of Harold Kim Philby, who was
Speaker 2: the ringleader of all this, by the way, wondering how
Speaker 2: he could or how he could have become a British
Speaker 2: intelligence officer given his communist past. So he was a
Speaker 2: card carrying communist in college and somehow, through a weird
Speaker 2: chain of events, got hired to work for I six.
Speaker 2: Now some have questioned how this happened, believe it or not, seriously,
Speaker 2: it was because of his wife and then his other wife.
Speaker 2: It's so all right, let's break this down real quick.
Speaker 2: Happen bitches, be honeypotting the motherfuckers what you meant to say?
Speaker 2: My god, this boy had nothing he could do against
Speaker 2: that Austeria Jesus Christ Austrian badge, and well none he
Speaker 2: could do against that shit she was throwing it on.
Speaker 3: Old boy. Oh boy, I'm sure Cambridge educated all this.
Speaker 3: So in college, Kim Philby starts working for the communist
Speaker 3: groups from around the world and he goes to Austria
Speaker 3: to support I forget if it was a political candidate
Speaker 3: or just the movement in general, but he was like
Speaker 3: a true blue comedy at this point. And he meets
Speaker 3: this girl.
Speaker 2: He meets this woman who basically gets in his head
Speaker 2: and decides, you know what, we're gonna make some things
Speaker 2: happen for you.
Speaker 3: Her name was Lizzie Friedman, and if you're curious.
Speaker 2: Yes, she was Jewish, and so she basically got in
Speaker 2: his head and within one year of them getting together,
Speaker 2: it was decided that whatever they were doing with the
Speaker 2: Communist Party in Austria was drawing a lot of attention
Speaker 2: from the police and as so much so that they
Speaker 2: were about to arrest her. So they had to evacuate.
Speaker 2: And she was an Austrian citizen. She wasn't a British citizen.
Speaker 2: There's no way that she could just get a passport,
Speaker 2: especially being a card carrying communist.
Speaker 3: So what's the best course of action.
Speaker 2: Well, the guy she's been fucking for about a year,
Speaker 2: Kim Philby, is a British citizen, and if they get
Speaker 2: married right now, then we could just leave and go
Speaker 2: to Britain and never come back.
Speaker 3: So they did.
Speaker 2: They did a courthouse marriage. We're gone within a week,
Speaker 2: and literally in the courthouse she said, I have big
Speaker 2: plans for your career. So in a bit of a
Speaker 2: fucking honeypot.
Speaker 3: Honestly, hmmm.
Speaker 2: Interesting that was Kim Philby's first wife, wouldn't you know it?
Speaker 2: They get divorced pretty much like a year and some
Speaker 2: change after they get to England. Who could have ever
Speaker 2: predicted that, right, I mean, because why would you trust
Speaker 2: a fucking comedy whatever, especially a honey pot comy bitch.
Speaker 3: But okay, whatever, fine, Uh.
Speaker 2: She later on ended up having an affair with uh,
Speaker 2: a dude that would become mayor of of Jerusalem if
Speaker 2: I'm not mistaken.
Speaker 3: And she yeah, she uh German Jewish.
Speaker 1: She was out here working though she was she was
Speaker 1: doing what she was supposed to be doing him for
Speaker 1: the Soviet Union.
Speaker 2: Slotting it out man, doing what she could, spreading them
Speaker 2: legs for uh, for old Linen and Stalin and all that.
Speaker 2: Which fine, you know whatever, you gotta use whatever availability
Speaker 2: you can.
Speaker 3: I guess you gotta. You gotta use the assets that
Speaker 3: God gave you. I guess. Although there's pictures of her,
Speaker 3: I don't see the appeal. She was not a good
Speaker 3: looking broad.
Speaker 2: I know I'm a bit objective here, I get that,
Speaker 2: but like biased, Oh, I mean, I'm objectifying her, But
Speaker 2: I understand bias.
Speaker 3: You know, I personally like women that are hervey, but
Speaker 3: like of all the things this check there is way
Speaker 3: better looking Austrian bitches, Like what are we doing here?
Speaker 2: But like, no, no, no, whatever she was doing in
Speaker 2: the bedroom, maybe it was that thing with the tongue.
Speaker 2: I don't know, but like a curently old boy was
Speaker 2: willing to sell it all this for this gash.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 2: Later on, after this divorce happened, he went super quiet
Speaker 2: about his Communist beliefs from his past. We're still talking
Speaker 2: about Philby here. And he married a woman named Eileen Firs,
Speaker 2: who later became Aileen Philby. She was born in India,
Speaker 2: which this was British ruled India at the time. Her
Speaker 2: father had been killed in the early states of the
Speaker 2: First four World War, and they were well connected and
Speaker 2: several members had important jobs. One of the primary private
Speaker 2: secretaries to Winston Churchill. Another had been director of the
Speaker 2: Women's Royal Navy Service, and then another one was the.
Speaker 3: World Bureau of Girls' Guides.
Speaker 2: So like that, she had a very well connected family
Speaker 2: when it came to the British government, and so when
Speaker 2: he got with her and married her, had a couple
Speaker 2: of kids and all these things. Basically, phil or Philby,
Speaker 2: I should say, was able to use that to leverage
Speaker 2: his patriotism. And whenever he had his interview with the
Speaker 2: Six Agency, no one questioned him. No one questioned his
Speaker 2: Communists past, No one questioned where he was after he
Speaker 2: left college and went to Austria and what he was doing.
Speaker 2: Nobody questioned him on his first marriage that was on
Speaker 2: the books and divorced in this time at day and
Speaker 2: age was very crazy, Like, no one got divorced, so
Speaker 2: the fact that he had a divorce on the on
Speaker 2: the books would have been a massive red flag.
Speaker 3: No one questioned it. No one questioned it at all
Speaker 3: as a matter of fact.
Speaker 2: Later on, though, Eileen found work as a store detective
Speaker 2: in the Marble Arc branch of the Marks and Spencer.
Speaker 2: It was here that she met friends with Flora Solomon.
Speaker 2: This is a very important individual, the daughter of a
Speaker 2: Jewish Russian gold tycoon. Solomon later recalled that Eileen belonged
Speaker 2: to that class now out of fashion called county. She
Speaker 2: was typically er English, slim and attractive, fiercely patriotic, but
Speaker 2: awkward in her gestures, and unsure of herself and company.
Speaker 2: Flora Solomon is the reason why anything was finally realized
Speaker 2: about Kim Philby, believe it or not, because Kim Philby
Speaker 2: also tried recruiting Flora Solomon in to be a spy
Speaker 2: under his network at one point in time. M hmm, yeah,
Speaker 2: So Solomon was a good friend of Kim Philby and
Speaker 2: she actually introduced him to Eileen at her home. In
Speaker 2: nineteen thirty nine, It was a day that Neville Chamberlain
Speaker 2: declared war on Nazi Germany. Philby later recalled, so it
Speaker 2: was a date well remembered because it was disastrous for
Speaker 2: the world and to myself. It has been argued that
Speaker 2: Philby found that she had an open manner and easy
Speaker 2: laugh and was a good companion. Talking about his wife,
Speaker 2: he treated her with sentimental affection, talking to her about
Speaker 2: his adventures, listening to her stories about her work.
Speaker 3: They were obviously in love.
Speaker 2: Solomon commented that Philby found an avid listener in Eileen,
Speaker 2: and the next I heard they were sharing a flat
Speaker 2: or an apartment as we call in America. Anyway, moving on,
Speaker 2: Eileen gave birth to three children, Josephine, John, and Tom Kim.
Speaker 2: Philby divorced litz Friedman September of nineteen forty six and
Speaker 2: married Eileen First a week later.
Speaker 3: So again it was very clear that this was a move,
Speaker 3: like this was a move on the chessboard.
Speaker 2: So you're ditching the chick that was a kamie that
Speaker 2: was about to get arrested in Austria, and you marry
Speaker 2: this chick that is uber connected in the British upper
Speaker 2: class within a week.
Speaker 1: Word yeah, word, I mean maybe he's just been waiting
Speaker 1: for that divorce for a long time.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was. It was clearly a part of it.
Speaker 1: Mm hm.
Speaker 2: Anyway, so over the next few years, her mental health deteriorated.
Speaker 2: O wait, I think I skipped something here. Her contribution
Speaker 2: to the marriage was to provide relaxed domestic atmosphere to
Speaker 2: bear Philby's children and to accept his dictum that they
Speaker 2: should not receive any sort of religious education. Also a
Speaker 2: pretty big red flag, you know, the commedies don't believe
Speaker 2: in religion or whatever. So whenever your spouse is like, ah,
Speaker 2: I don't think we should have religion in this house
Speaker 2: at all, that is a really big red flag, y'all.
Speaker 2: Over the next few years, her mental health deteriorated. Aileen
Speaker 2: Philby suffered from a psychiatric disorder later known as Munchausen
Speaker 2: syndrome that manifested itself into episodes of self harm and
Speaker 2: bouts of pyromania in order to attract sympathy and attention.
Speaker 2: Eileen was described as awkward in her bouts of pyromania.
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, awkward in her gestures, and unsure of herself
Speaker 2: and company, he suggested. Ben McIntyre had suggested that perhaps
Speaker 2: Eileen's distress reflected the first stirrings of doubt. She may
Speaker 2: already have begun to wonder whether her husband was really
Speaker 2: the charming Auxuria's popular.
Speaker 3: Straight batting bureaucrat that he seemed so clearly not.
Speaker 1: She probably was like, crap, he's doing some shady shit
Speaker 1: and I'm stuck. I wonder what I should do.
Speaker 3: Yeah, probably, honestly.
Speaker 2: In nineteen forty nine, Kim Philby became SIS representative in Washington.
Speaker 2: That's the Secret Intel Service as British is, or Britain's
Speaker 2: top secret security officer, working in liaison with the CIA
Speaker 2: and the FBI. Eileen and the children also moved to America,
Speaker 2: and the Philbies took a spacious, ramshackle two story place
Speaker 2: at forty one hund Nebraska Avenue. They gave a lot,
Speaker 2: They gave a lot of parties, as Philip Knightley pointed
Speaker 2: out quote.
Speaker 3: As the months passed, the.
Speaker 2: Drinking, not only Philby's but Eileen's two seemed to get heavier,
Speaker 2: and the birth of the fifth child, Harry, who suffered
Speaker 2: from convulsions, produced tensions in the family that Eileen seemed
Speaker 2: to have difficulty handling. In nineteen fifty, Stuart Menzies and
Speaker 2: Johnson Claire discussed the possibility of Philby becoming the next
Speaker 2: director general of the Six. They were genuinely about to
Speaker 2: put this guy in charge of the service that still
Speaker 2: to this day, certain British people will say I six
Speaker 2: doesn't exist, even though it's well documented. They still act
Speaker 2: like it's so hush hush and so secret that people.
Speaker 4: Still not secretive of all everybody knows about it.
Speaker 2: I know, it's like Delta Force. It's like, oh, well,
Speaker 2: they're so secret. No one knows that Delta Force is real.
Speaker 3: Yeah they are. Yeah, they fucking are, like, we know this.
Speaker 3: It's so dumb, but yes.
Speaker 2: So they were about to put the guy at the
Speaker 2: head of the Soviet spy network in charge of him
Speaker 2: I six because he was so good at his job,
Speaker 2: apparently so good. He asked Arthur Martin, I'm sorry. Dick
Speaker 2: White was asked to producer report on Philby, and he
Speaker 2: asked Arthur Martin and Jane Archer to carry out an
Speaker 2: investigation into his past. They became concerned about how quickly
Speaker 2: he changed from a communist sympathizer to a supporter of
Speaker 2: pro fascist organizations like pretty much overnight. They also discovered
Speaker 2: that the description of the mole provided by.
Speaker 3: Walter Kovitski and Igor Gwinscow sorry, was close to that
Speaker 3: of Philby's time in Spain as a journalist quote unquote.
Speaker 3: It was now decided that Philby could in fact be
Speaker 3: a double agent. That was in nineteen fIF right, so
Speaker 3: he was already a top dog, yeah, and they were
Speaker 3: looking at making him an even deeper and higher up
Speaker 3: top dog. But now there was starting to be some
Speaker 3: chinks in the armor.
Speaker 2: When Guy Burgess and Donald MacLean defected nineteen fifty one,
Speaker 2: Philby became the chief suspect as the man who tipped
Speaker 2: them off that they were being investigated. Under pressure from
Speaker 2: Clement Attlee and Herbert Morrison, Stuart Menzy agreed that or
Speaker 2: Philsby should be interrogated by six. However, they cleared him
Speaker 2: of being part of aspiring. However, because he was able
Speaker 2: to say the right words. He was absolutely able to
Speaker 2: just tell them all the things and all right, cool, cool,
Speaker 2: cool whatever. But here's where things took a downward turn
Speaker 2: for a boy. However, the CIA insisted that they should
Speaker 2: or yet he should be recalled to London. Like they
Speaker 2: were like, fine, look, you're not gonna use him to
Speaker 2: be our go between between you and us. I'm sorry,
Speaker 2: fuck this guy. In September of nineteen fifty one, Philby
Speaker 2: officially resigned from I six to, but continued to work
Speaker 2: for the organization on a part time basis. He was
Speaker 2: also paid four thousand pound to compensate him for losing
Speaker 2: his job. They gave him a severance package and thanked
Speaker 2: him for his years of service. Never suspected him of anything,
Speaker 2: and then I kind of let him work on as
Speaker 2: a part time basis for a good while here.
Speaker 3: So there was a book written called A Spy among Friends.
Speaker 2: It points out that nineteen fifty two, Eileen Philby was
Speaker 2: convinced that her husband was a Soviet spy. Eileen knew
Speaker 2: that her husband had lied to her consistently and coldly
Speaker 2: from the moment they first met and throughout their marriage.
Speaker 2: The knowledge of this duplicity tipped her into a psychological
Speaker 2: abyss from which she would never fully emerge. She confronted Kim,
Speaker 2: who denied everything, and the assuing Roe, far from dissipating
Speaker 2: for her fears, merely confirmed her conviction that he was lying.
Speaker 2: So later on, in nineteen fifty three, Nicholas Elliott arranged
Speaker 2: for Kim Philly to work for I six and bea
Speaker 2: root was as a journalist being employed by the Observer
Speaker 2: and the Economist. The Observer and the Economist would share
Speaker 2: Philby's services and pay him three thousand pounds a year
Speaker 2: plus travel and expenses. At the time, Elliott raims that
Speaker 2: Philby would resume working for six, no longer as an officer,
Speaker 2: but as an agent posing as a journalist gathering information
Speaker 2: for British intelligence in one of the world's most sensitive areas.
Speaker 2: He would be paid a retainer through Godfrey Paulson, chief
Speaker 2: of the Beirut m I six station. So he goes
Speaker 2: from being low level member of five and I six
Speaker 2: and all of this is above board, all this is
Speaker 2: on paper and the British know about this. He goes
Speaker 2: from being an obscure nobody who divorced a chick, married
Speaker 2: a chick and used those connections to get in pretty
Speaker 2: much no questions asked, into the upper rationalon of British
Speaker 2: secret intelligence agencies. Then he goes so far with that
Speaker 2: that he becomes the liaison between am I five and
Speaker 2: MY six and the FBI and the CIA. Like the
Speaker 2: guy he has spies in both working under him. He
Speaker 2: gets caught, but somehow works the system enough to get
Speaker 2: a healthy severance package and continue working for the organization
Speaker 2: as a journalist in Lebanon, and continue doing that for years.
Speaker 3: Your boy just.
Speaker 2: Can't miss apparently, and somehow the fact that he was
Speaker 2: feeding the Soviets information this entire time just went unknown.
Speaker 4: Who knows, Probably one of the best spies ever.
Speaker 3: I guess that's why then the Russian see him as
Speaker 3: a national hero.
Speaker 4: Honestly, ah, this is the key peak of narcissism and gaslighting.
Speaker 3: Fuck.
Speaker 2: So Eileen did not go with her husband to be root.
Speaker 2: Her friend Floor Solomon became increasingly concerned about her mental
Speaker 2: state and claimed that she had been abandoned by her husband.
Speaker 2: Solomon wrote to Philby complaining about the treatment of his wife,
Speaker 2: and Philby replied that Eileen's claims were hooey and that
Speaker 2: I made a clear arrangement with her that she should
Speaker 2: pay the household bills and forward me the receipts, whereupon
Speaker 2: I would refund her. Yeah, such a loving husband. So
Speaker 2: far he had not had a single receipt, so no receipts,
Speaker 2: no money. So basically, as far as the world was concerned,
Speaker 2: he just full on walked out on his family. Phil
Speaker 2: Be added that if she could afford the luxuries of
Speaker 2: risking her neck at point two points, at point to points,
Speaker 2: she can damn well send me the receipts.
Speaker 3: Yeah. He finished his attack on his wife with the
Speaker 3: comment that he was fed up with her idleness. Yeah,
Speaker 3: he's real, real, peach.
Speaker 1: I mean, clearly this was just an arrangement kind of
Speaker 1: a situation to uphold his cover, and then with her
Speaker 1: getting more suspicious, she probably felt like she was losing
Speaker 1: her mind because he was.
Speaker 4: Gaslighting her so well.
Speaker 1: Oh god, that every time she even thought that she
Speaker 1: was making headway of like I know you're doing something nefarious,
Speaker 1: then he would just come back at her and like
Speaker 1: you're crazy or this or that. I'm sure he even
Speaker 1: talked about putting her in an institution, because back then
Speaker 1: they just throw your ass in the institution for everything.
Speaker 2: So I don't think he fair enough to even say that,
Speaker 2: because she needed to be home to take care of
Speaker 2: the kids so he could go and do whatever the
Speaker 2: fuck he wanted.
Speaker 3: Like, my god, this bitch won't shut up, Like Okay, yeah,
Speaker 3: I know you're trying to let the house on fire.
Speaker 3: I know you're trying to kill yourself and you just
Speaker 3: get it together. Okay, we're all out here struggling. It's crazy.
Speaker 1: He didn't give a fuck. I mean, this is just
Speaker 1: a part of his cover. He was like deeply entrenched
Speaker 1: and obsessed with like doing this, which is crazy to me.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah.
Speaker 2: He was a full blown believer of the communist way,
Speaker 2: like a full cult member of that group. Continuing on here,
Speaker 2: Kim Philby had become involved with Eleanor Brewer, the wife
Speaker 2: of Sam Prope Brewer, a journalist working for the New
Speaker 2: York Times. So he was honey potting to get information
Speaker 2: later on from another journalist's sources. Believe it or not,
Speaker 2: She later recalled what touched me first about Kim was
Speaker 2: his loneliness.
Speaker 3: Ah, there you go.
Speaker 2: He's using all the things to his advantage, being a
Speaker 2: real fuck boy about it. A certain old fashioned reserve
Speaker 2: set him apart from the easily familiarity of the other
Speaker 2: journalists because he wasn't a journalist.
Speaker 3: He was a spy.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: He was then forty four, of medium height, very lean,
Speaker 2: with a handsome, heavy lined face. I'm gonna show you
Speaker 2: a picture of this guy in a bit.
Speaker 4: I want you to tell he's not at all.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like you know, okay, his eyes were an intense blue,
Speaker 2: and he had a gift for creating an atmosphere of
Speaker 2: such intimacy that I found myself talking freely to him.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Fuck boyshit right there.
Speaker 1: He's very smart with how he talks. I mean, clearly
Speaker 1: he's gotten out of all this so far. So he's
Speaker 1: pretty intelligent when it comes to being able to manipulate people.
Speaker 2: She says, I was very impressed by his beautiful manners.
Speaker 2: We took him under our wing. Kim soon became one
Speaker 2: of our closest friends, and then he started fucking her
Speaker 2: behind her husband's back, just you know, as you do,
Speaker 2: I suppose. Anthony Cave Brown, the author of Treason of Blood,
Speaker 2: has argued that within two weeks of meeting, they became lovers,
Speaker 2: meeting secretly at little cafes in the mountains, at the beaches,
Speaker 2: anywhere they would not be seen by friends. He showered
Speaker 2: her with the little love notes written on paper from
Speaker 2: cigarette packages. Brewer had long since ceased to concern himself
Speaker 2: with his wife's fidelity and kept the marriage in place
Speaker 2: only for the sake of their daughter. Annie Brown believes
Speaker 2: that their evidence that Wilburg. Crane Evelyn, the CIA's station
Speaker 2: chief in Beirut, had asked Eleanor to spy on Philby,
Speaker 2: possibly m M sense certain letters Shoe Evelyn advising a
Speaker 2: CIA officer about the relationship, suggesting that she was his
Speaker 2: controlled informant in the Philby case. It's very possible. I
Speaker 2: don't know that for a fact, but I believe it's
Speaker 2: possible anyway.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 2: So that's the situation of how Kim Philby went from
Speaker 2: being an obscure nobody got in with a communist's piece
Speaker 2: of ass, then moved on to a woman who had
Speaker 2: a lot of family connections in England, and then found
Speaker 2: himself in these positions on the spy network side of things,
Speaker 2: which I think was rather interesting, to be honest with you.
Speaker 2: According to one later report, about half the documents the
Speaker 2: British spy sent to Moscow were never even read due
Speaker 2: to the distrust. Nonetheless, the Soviets received a great deal
Speaker 2: of secret information one thousand, seven hundred and seventy one
Speaker 2: documents from Blunt the art Guy, forty six hundred and
Speaker 2: five from Burgess, forty five damn Here, forty six hundred
Speaker 2: from MacLean, and five thousand, eight hundred and thirty two
Speaker 2: from Cairncross. All of this was from nineteen forty one
Speaker 2: until nineteen forty five.
Speaker 4: Wow, that's a lot.
Speaker 2: I mean, to what level these documents were, to what
Speaker 2: level of secrecy? Was it communications, was it battle plans?
Speaker 2: Was it nuclear secrets? I mean, the mind boggles to
Speaker 2: really think about it. But even still, all of that
Speaker 2: was done because they were too worried about the war
Speaker 2: and nobody was paying attention to this. Apparently. I don't
Speaker 2: know why they wouldn't. You would think that during a
Speaker 2: war you'd be paying real close attention to your spine network.
Speaker 2: But okay whatever. MacLean and Burges met as students at
Speaker 2: Cambridge in the early nineteen thirties, both of them being
Speaker 2: ideologically opposed to capitalism. They were recruited by Soviet intelligence
Speaker 2: operatives and became undercover agents. McLean began delivering information of
Speaker 2: the Soviet operatives as a member of the Foreign Office
Speaker 2: in nineteen thirty four. Burgess also began supplying information from
Speaker 2: various positions between thirty six and forty four, first as
Speaker 2: a BBC Corps spawn it once again, the journalism comes
Speaker 2: in here, then as an active member of British intelligence
Speaker 2: and then finally as a member of the Foreign Office,
Speaker 2: that's when he was the connection between the CIA and
Speaker 2: MI six. MacLean and Burgers were reportedly seen by their
Speaker 2: Soviet handlers as hopeless drunks, and they had a hard
Speaker 2: time keeping their secret occupations to themselves, and it said
Speaker 2: that Burgess, while leaving a pub highly intoxicated, accidentally dropped
Speaker 2: one of the secret files he had just taken from
Speaker 2: the Foreign Office, thereby potentially jeopardizing his secret identity. MacLean
Speaker 2: was also known to have leaked information about his secret
Speaker 2: activities to his brother and close friends. Although they struggled
Speaker 2: to keep secrets, they did not stop them from delivering information.
Speaker 2: Burgess reportedly handed out about three hundred and eighty nine
Speaker 2: top secret documents over to the Soviets within the early
Speaker 2: part of nineteen forty five, along with an additional one
Speaker 2: hundred and sixty eight documents in December of nineteen forty nine.
Speaker 2: Between thirty four and fifty one, MacLean passed numerous secrets
Speaker 2: to Moscow. The lack of detection was due to the
Speaker 2: refusal of British intelligence to listen to warnings from the US.
Speaker 2: Even after the FBI had established that an agent code
Speaker 2: named Homer, had been operating inside the British embassy in
Speaker 2: Washington during the war. According to a review of McLean's
Speaker 2: biography by Roland Phillips, Now, who is the guy that
Speaker 2: discovered this? You might be asking, who's the dude that
Speaker 2: was able to really find Oh wait a minute, you know,
Speaker 2: like we have a real mole situation here.
Speaker 3: This guy, Meredith K.
Speaker 2: Gardner, all right, so cracked the codes to unmask key
Speaker 2: Soviet spies.
Speaker 3: I wonder if they got picture of the guy. They
Speaker 3: do not. Another article did. But he just he looked
Speaker 3: like a data analytical nerd, honestly, and his whole job
Speaker 3: was to take codes and try to find patterns.
Speaker 4: That was it before AI was invented, right.
Speaker 2: Before computers, honestly, or at least they weren't being used
Speaker 2: for this purpose. And he discovered that there was a
Speaker 2: code that was there was a pattern in this code
Speaker 2: that was coming from Moscow to Britain to the United
Speaker 2: States and then back through the same network. He was
Speaker 2: able to figure out that their aliases was Homer, and
Speaker 2: he was working on this other alias and he figured
Speaker 2: out he thought he knew who Homer was and all
Speaker 2: these things.
Speaker 3: So when he found this.
Speaker 2: Out, he reports to the liaison, who happened to be
Speaker 2: Kim Philby.
Speaker 4: Yeah, who happened to spy, the head.
Speaker 3: Of the entire debacle. So oh sorry, jumped ahead here,
Speaker 3: continuing on where'd it go? Ohy, I was here? Anyways,
Speaker 3: it was discovered by the FBI by the Americans that
Speaker 3: y'all have a spy.
Speaker 2: We know for sure we have two of them in America.
Speaker 2: We know for sure there's at least one in Britain.
Speaker 2: We're going to start to do an investigation on this.
Speaker 2: This is when Philby told his boys listen, it was
Speaker 2: a MacLean. He told Burgess to go to England and
Speaker 2: tell MacLean, ay, bro, he's been compromised.
Speaker 3: He needs to leave. You need to stay.
Speaker 2: Do not go, because if both of y'all take off,
Speaker 2: you both work directly for me. And if both of
Speaker 2: you take off, what am I gonna look like? So
Speaker 2: they both took off, obviously and randow Russia with their
Speaker 2: tails tucked because they were scared of reprisals.
Speaker 3: And somehow Philby was able to say the right words
Speaker 3: to get away with all of that for a while.
Speaker 2: But anyway, moving forward. Philby, which was posted in the
Speaker 2: British Embassy in Washington after the war, learned that America
Speaker 2: and British authorities were searching for a mole in the
Speaker 2: British embassy. Uh oh wait, we just kind of talked
Speaker 2: about that. We don't really have to go into the
Speaker 2: deepness of that. Burgess and MacLean disappeared in the summer
Speaker 2: of nineteen fifty one and spent most of the next
Speaker 2: four years living covertly in Kubyashev. Yeah, Kubyashev, Russia. Their
Speaker 2: whereabouts were unclear for some time, and their defection was
Speaker 2: not confirmed until nineteen fifty six, when the two appeared
Speaker 2: at a press conference in Moscow. Though Burgess was not
Speaker 2: supposed to effect at the same time as McLean, it
Speaker 2: has been claimed that he had been ordered to do
Speaker 2: so by his controllers in Moscow. I don't believe that's
Speaker 2: actually real, but anyway, the move immediately cast suspicion on
Speaker 2: Philby because of his close connection with both of them,
Speaker 2: and Philby could have even climbed to a higher position
Speaker 2: if this wouldn't have happened. Because at this time, nobody
Speaker 2: had anything negative to say about the Guy. In twenty nineteen,
Speaker 2: Russia honored Burgess and MacLean in a ceremony they had
Speaker 2: already passed by this point, and a plaque was attached
Speaker 2: to the building where they lived in the nineteen fifties.
Speaker 2: The head of Russia's foreign intelligence service, the SVR praised
Speaker 2: the duo on social media, having supplied Soviet intelligence with
Speaker 2: the most important information for more than twenty years, making
Speaker 2: a significant contribution to the victory over fascism, the protection
Speaker 2: of our strategic interests and ensuring the scene of our country.
Speaker 4: That's insane.
Speaker 1: They were able to operate for so long and gather
Speaker 1: so much information in just four years. I mean, it's
Speaker 1: almost twelve thousand documents that they were able to gather
Speaker 1: than three of them.
Speaker 2: Technically it was more closely to twenty because they started
Speaker 2: in nineteen thirties and they ended in the fifties, so
Speaker 2: I mean, even still nobody found out who they were,
Speaker 2: and then whenever they almost did, they just defected and
Speaker 2: lived under house arrest for a while. But they from
Speaker 2: all accounts, they kind of moved on and lived relatively normal, happy,
Speaker 2: healthy lives towards the end of that and just drank
Speaker 2: themselves to death, because what else are you going to
Speaker 2: do in Russia?
Speaker 3: I guess all right, so we already kind of broke
Speaker 3: down Philby a bit.
Speaker 2: I don't really need to go into it a bunch,
Speaker 2: but in the later nineteen fifties we talked about if
Speaker 2: Philby left the Secret Service and began working as a
Speaker 2: journalist in the Middle East, writing for The Economist and
Speaker 2: the Observer. M I six then re employed him around
Speaker 2: the same time to provide reports about that region.
Speaker 3: Seen sixty one.
Speaker 2: There was another defector and atotally Golitzen provided information which
Speaker 2: pointed to Philby. An I six officer and friend of
Speaker 2: Philby from his earlier six Days, Nicholas Elliott was sent
Speaker 2: in sixty three to interview him in Beirut and reported
Speaker 2: that Philby seemed to know that he was coming, indicating
Speaker 2: the presence of yet another mole in six. Nonetheless, Philby
Speaker 2: confessed to Elliott, so after he had been kicked out,
Speaker 2: after he's working as a reporter and banging the other
Speaker 2: reporter's wife and all this shit. I six final was like, hey,
Speaker 2: wait a minute, you're you're the spy, and like we
Speaker 2: have another source that is saying this, So what the
Speaker 2: fuck bro. Shortly after, fearing he might be abducted in Lebanon,
Speaker 2: Philby defected to the Soviet Union under their cover of
Speaker 2: night aboard a Soviet freighter. For the first seven years
Speaker 2: in Moscow, he was under virtual house arrest, since the
Speaker 2: Soviets were concerned that he might defect back to the West.
Speaker 3: At least they acknowledge that with this guy. According to
Speaker 3: an article in the New York Times, the same New
Speaker 3: York Times, who's writer who probably wrote this article, he
Speaker 3: was hooking up with the wife whatever. He was given
Speaker 3: no rank nor an office.
Speaker 2: In fact, for the most part, Philby was frozen out
Speaker 2: and his suggestions ignored.
Speaker 3: This ruined his life.
Speaker 2: After his death, however, Philby was awarded a number of
Speaker 2: medals by the Soviets.
Speaker 1: So, yeah, so they pretty much said fuck you and
Speaker 1: all your service and everything that you've done for us,
Speaker 1: and all the spy stuff and everything, and then after
Speaker 1: your death, oh.
Speaker 4: Now we'll award you.
Speaker 3: Like he was such a hero.
Speaker 1: It makes zero sense to me why they would do
Speaker 1: this to him, Like you would think that he would
Speaker 1: be like a national fucking dreasure at that point.
Speaker 3: You would think, But sayah, Russia, don't give a fuck
Speaker 3: about nobody, dude, nothing makes sense there, literally nothing makes
Speaker 3: sense there.
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 1: I mean, but to be fair though, like if you
Speaker 1: have a spy, like they are the best at lying
Speaker 1: and manipula.
Speaker 4: There is to offer pretty much. And so how do
Speaker 4: you know they're not spying for the West now?
Speaker 1: I mean, clearly the dude was obsessed with you know,
Speaker 1: the Soviet Union and everything else. But you know, I
Speaker 1: can see them being distrustful, but to outright ruin his
Speaker 1: life pretty much?
Speaker 2: Oh, it's it's so deep. You you've ever seen the
Speaker 2: show Big Brother? Mm hmm, okay, do you remember that
Speaker 2: season when a interrogator won it?
Speaker 4: I think maybe I don't.
Speaker 2: So this dude who already knows how to manipulate the
Speaker 2: human mind and already knows how to gain people's trust,
Speaker 2: he's an interrogator. I forget if it was for the
Speaker 2: police or for the Fed or what, but this dude
Speaker 2: professionally fucks with people's minds to get what he wants
Speaker 2: out of them. Then he goes for a Big Brother,
Speaker 2: and then once he won, admitutes to everybody, I've been
Speaker 2: playing all of you.
Speaker 3: Since day one.
Speaker 2: Likes this was very easy you're so manipulable all of you,
Speaker 2: like you're like clay, and they were like, we trusted you.
Speaker 3: He's like, I know that. That was the point. All right, cool,
Speaker 3: I'm gonna take my money now. It was a whole thing.
Speaker 3: And that was that was low level shit compared to
Speaker 3: what these guys are doing.
Speaker 1: I mean, for him to get away with, like multiple
Speaker 1: times being suspected of doing stuff, especially during this timeframe
Speaker 1: and how suspicious everybody was, and then to have two
Speaker 1: people directly under you defect and be proven to be spies,
Speaker 1: it's pretty it's pretty crazy.
Speaker 4: To be honest with you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it really is. And it went on for so long.
Speaker 3: They gave so many secrets away. And that's that's the
Speaker 3: other thing. It's not that during the Cold War, it's not.
Speaker 2: The Soviet Union was like actually a competition, like they
Speaker 2: had no competitive edge over the West, I should say,
Speaker 2: but they had spies that were able to give them
Speaker 2: all of this insel the same way that China is
Speaker 2: doing things right now. How many Chinese spies have been
Speaker 2: caught in this country and not to I know, he
Speaker 2: had the bio lab that was caught, We had those
Speaker 2: names that were bringing in those infected seeds that we're
Speaker 2: gonna be able to tear apart our agricultural infrastructure, all
Speaker 2: these things. We have multiple Chinese spies that have been
Speaker 2: caught in DC and in New York City within the
Speaker 2: last two years, and that's just there. There's been one
Speaker 2: that was caught in California. I want to say, there
Speaker 2: was one that was just apprehended in Texas not too
Speaker 2: long ago. Like it's they're all over doing the exact
Speaker 2: same thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean they're working in Canada and coming down
Speaker 1: according to some of the information, and then you have
Speaker 1: you know what's his name, the do that did the
Speaker 1: genetics experiments that got shunned and all this stuff by
Speaker 1: the who He lives in Texas and he's like he
Speaker 1: like finally got able to come over here and is
Speaker 1: doing experimental things. Still he's never stopped. There's a lot
Speaker 1: of spy network still happening. And this protein's exactly today
Speaker 1: as it did back then because the spies are just
Speaker 1: gotten better, but so is the technology. So I mean
Speaker 1: spying though has been around forever though, I mean spies
Speaker 1: have always infiltrated kingdoms and different things and gathering intel
Speaker 1: and whatnot.
Speaker 4: I think it's.
Speaker 1: Spying is kind of cool in one way to me,
Speaker 1: because it's like, you got to be really really good
Speaker 1: at being intelligent, being manipultive, being like really understanding the
Speaker 1: humans how humans work, and then being extremely confident and
Speaker 1: like doing all this stuff to be able to do
Speaker 1: this on one on like a just a standback looking
Speaker 1: at it like a scientific way. It's kind of fascinating,
Speaker 1: to be honest. But as a as a person, though, man,
Speaker 1: you are really fucking shitty. You're really shitty a person.
Speaker 1: But then we have our own spies though, that are
Speaker 1: all over the world that are spying for us and
Speaker 1: trying to gather intel cheap protect Americans if we would
Speaker 1: like to believe that. But you know, there are still
Speaker 1: spies that are within our own country that are doing things,
Speaker 1: so you know, it's one of just those things that happens.
Speaker 2: I guess, oh yeah, for the record, just because we're
Speaker 2: talking about Soviet spies, and I find that especially egregious
Speaker 2: because they were trying to further the message of a
Speaker 2: group that has been responsible for more deaths than anything
Speaker 2: else in human history. We still have our spies, Like,
Speaker 2: I'm not mad that they were doing their job I'm
Speaker 2: mad about the place of which that information was going.
Speaker 3: You know what I mean.
Speaker 2: We have tons of spies America, spies all over the place,
Speaker 2: and it's just this is how this goes. Every nation does,
Speaker 2: every nation does, Okay, Jeffrey Epstein, once again, he wasn't
Speaker 2: spying for America. He wasn't spying for Israel, he wasn't
Speaker 2: spying for euro poll, he wasn't spying for the Russians.
Speaker 2: He was spying for everyone. He was getting blackmail for everyone.
Speaker 2: Whoever wanted to pay him for the videos and pictures
Speaker 2: he had.
Speaker 3: He was fine with it. He was in the money
Speaker 3: making business and the discussing business of you know, the pedophilia.
Speaker 3: But yeah, no, he it was whoever would pay him, everybody,
Speaker 3: I know.
Speaker 2: Yes, he was an Israeli asset for sure, and an
Speaker 2: American asset, and a Russian asset, and a French asset,
Speaker 2: and a German asset.
Speaker 3: It's all of them.
Speaker 2: These dudes specifically were working for Russia in Britain and
Speaker 2: in America, which is it's still mind blowing. It took
Speaker 2: American Intel Services to pull like the plug on this
Speaker 2: and be like, hey, Britain, this guy is clearly dirty
Speaker 2: and Britain still was like, nah, what, that's crazy, even
Speaker 2: though two of the guys that work under him, like
Speaker 2: his boys, just defected to Russia and were confirmed spies.
Speaker 3: But like, not him, though, how can he have possibly known?
Speaker 2: They've only worked under him for twenty years and had
Speaker 2: really close connections with him outside of work, Like, there's
Speaker 2: no way he could have known.
Speaker 1: Bro, what.
Speaker 3: M Yeah, it's insane.
Speaker 2: Moving forward here Anthony Blunt, former surveyor of the King's
Speaker 2: Pictures What a Title and later Queen's Pictures for the
Speaker 2: Royal Art Collection. He served as an MI five member
Speaker 2: and supplied secret information to the KGB, while also providing
Speaker 2: warnings to fellow agents of certain counterintelligence that could potentially
Speaker 2: endanger them, so he was like their shield almost. In
Speaker 2: sixty four five received information from the American Michael Whitley
Speaker 2: Straight or Whitney Strait, pointing that Blunt's espionage and the
Speaker 2: two had known each other at Cambridge some thirty years
Speaker 2: before Blunt recruited Straight as a spy and then we
Speaker 2: talked about that already.
Speaker 3: Straight kind of came forward later on, was like, hey, bro,
Speaker 3: this is what happened. This is your guy over here.
Speaker 2: Blunt was interrogated by I five and confessed in exchange
Speaker 2: for immunity from prosecution, as he was by nineteen sixty
Speaker 2: four without access to classified information. He had secretly been
Speaker 2: granted immunity by the Attorney General in exchange for revealing
Speaker 2: everything he knew. Peter Wright, one of Blunt's interrogators, described
Speaker 2: it in his book SpyCatcher, about how Blunt was evasive
Speaker 2: and only made admissions grudgingly when confronted.
Speaker 3: With the undeniable. So he wasn't even willing to give
Speaker 3: up all the information.
Speaker 4: He kind of just tortured it out of him.
Speaker 2: They could have, but somehow they didn't because at that
Speaker 2: point he still had a knighthood, he was still a
Speaker 2: part of the.
Speaker 3: Nobility and all the blah blah blah blahs.
Speaker 2: Anyway, in seventy nine, Blunt was publicly accused of being
Speaker 2: a Soviet agent by the investigative journalist Andrew Boyle in
Speaker 2: his book Climate of Treason. In November of seventy nine,
Speaker 2: Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher admitted it to the House of
Speaker 2: Commons that Blunt had confessed to being a Soviet spy
Speaker 2: fifteen years previously, so they knew about it, and nobody
Speaker 2: did anything to him. The term five, like the Cambridge five,
Speaker 2: began to be used in nineteen sixty one when KGB
Speaker 2: defect Anatolely Gullitzen named MacLean and Burgess as part of
Speaker 2: a ring of five, with Philby a probable third, alongside
Speaker 2: with two other agents whom he did not know. Yeah,
Speaker 2: so anyway we could get into the rest of it here.
Speaker 2: John Cairncross he was known as a British literary scholar
Speaker 2: until he was later identified as a Soviet atomic spy.
Speaker 2: While a civil servant in the Foreign Office, he was
Speaker 2: recruited in nineteen thirty seven by James Klugman. What a
Speaker 2: name to become a Soviet spy. He moved to the
Speaker 2: Treasury in nineteen thirty eight, but transferred once again to
Speaker 2: the Cabinet Office in nineteen forty, where he served as
Speaker 2: the private secretary for Sir Sir Morris Hankey the Government
Speaker 2: Code and Cipher School at Belcher Park, and then in
Speaker 2: nineteen forty three to six. Following World War Two, it
Speaker 2: is said that caren Cross leaked information regarding the new
Speaker 2: NATO alliance to the Soviets, on the base of information
Speaker 2: provided by glitz him. Speculators raged on for many years
Speaker 2: as the identity of the Fifth Man, the journalist's popularity
Speaker 2: of the phrase, oh something to the unrelated novels The
Speaker 2: Third Man and the Tenth Man, written by Graham Green,
Speaker 2: who coincidentally worked with Philby and Cancross. During the Second
Speaker 2: World War, he wrote novels about spycraft. Later he realized, Wait,
Speaker 2: the guys who are inspiration for some of my books
Speaker 2: actually turned out to be Soviet spies.
Speaker 3: He didn't even know that when he wrote this.
Speaker 4: Oh my gosh, I'd be like, God, damn it, I was.
Speaker 4: I mean, I was right the whole time.
Speaker 3: I knew it, like it's crazy.
Speaker 4: Obviously he was picking up on some stuff, but didn't
Speaker 4: even think to put two and two together, so did not.
Speaker 2: Cam Cross confessed to having been a spy for the
Speaker 2: Soviets in nineteen sixty four meeting with the Six that
Speaker 2: was kept secret for some years. He was given immunity
Speaker 2: from prosecution. The public became aware of his treachery in
Speaker 2: December of nineteen seventy nine. However, when cam Cross made
Speaker 2: a public confession to journalists Bear Pinrose, the news was
Speaker 2: widely publicized, leading many to surmise that it was in
Speaker 2: fact the fifth man. That was confirmed in a nineteen
Speaker 2: eighty nine by the KGB Oleg Gordievski who had defected
Speaker 2: to Britain, so they had a Russian spy defect that
Speaker 2: he was like, yeah, no, that's absolutely confirmed.
Speaker 3: That was the guy. That was one of the guys anyway.
Speaker 2: His designation as the fifth man also confirmed in a
Speaker 2: former KGB ag at Uri Moden's published we talked about
Speaker 2: that the five Cambridge Friends Burgess McLean, Philby Blunt and
Speaker 2: can Cross. Camcross is not always considered to have been
Speaker 2: part of during a five though a student at the
Speaker 2: University of Cambridge, he only he knew only Blunt, who
Speaker 2: by then was teaching modern languages in nineteen thirty four.
Speaker 2: When cam Cross arrived at Cambridge, the other three members
Speaker 2: of the ring had already graduated. That's what I'm saying,
Speaker 2: Like you have, these three clearly were connected, they all
Speaker 2: worked together, they all, you know whatever. When it comes
Speaker 2: to King Cross and Blunt, Blunt was a teacher at
Speaker 2: the time and he was a relatively older dude than
Speaker 2: everybody else. They these five weren't connected. But when the
Speaker 2: story broke, everything broke and that's just why the Moniker
Speaker 2: became a thing.
Speaker 1: Clearly, there's way more than just the five of them,
Speaker 1: though at this point, like, come on now, just to
Speaker 1: think that there's only five and that this has just
Speaker 1: been to the five of them for two decades. No,
Speaker 1: no way, not at all, and especially the positions that
Speaker 1: they held and like how they influenced things or at
Speaker 1: least the information they were able to gather.
Speaker 3: Yep.
Speaker 2: Now, so now let's talk about the attempted cover up
Speaker 2: and why they would have tried to cover up the
Speaker 2: fact that they had just been caught, like the British
Speaker 2: intelligence agencies were caught with their pants down, like, oh shit,
Speaker 2: we're supposed to be the great one of the greatest
Speaker 2: spy agencies on Earth and we're getting best to buy
Speaker 2: the Soviets over here.
Speaker 3: Why would they keep that covered up?
Speaker 2: You might ask embarrassment ego, just to name a few,
Speaker 2: but let's go for unknown reasons. Prime Minister Alec Douglas
Speaker 2: Holmes was not advised of Anthony Blunt's spying, although the
Speaker 2: Queen and Home Security Henry Brooke were informed. So the
Speaker 2: Queen knew about it but did not tell the Prime Minister.
Speaker 2: Why you might ask. Some would say that it was
Speaker 2: because it was embarrassing to the royal family, because that's
Speaker 2: what's most important here. It was only a November of
Speaker 2: nineteen seventy nine that the Prime Minister, Margaret Thatcher formally
Speaker 2: advised Parliament of blunch, treachery and the immunity deal that
Speaker 2: had been arranged fifteen years earlier. A twenty fifteen article
Speaker 2: in The Guardian discussed four hundred top secret documents which
Speaker 2: had been released at the National Archives and indicated that
Speaker 2: five and six had worked diligently to prevent information about
Speaker 2: the five from being disclosed to the British government or
Speaker 2: I'm sorry to the British public, and even to the
Speaker 2: US government. A twenty sixteen review of a new book
Speaker 2: about Burgess added that more than twenty percent of the
Speaker 2: files related to the spies, most of whom defected more
Speaker 2: than fifty years ago, remained closed and just a few
Speaker 2: years ago. In conclusion, the reviews stated that the Foreign Office, six,
Speaker 2: M I five all have an interest in covering up
Speaker 2: to protect themselves from huge embarrassment, and that more taxpayer
Speaker 2: money is spent by Whitehall officials and the feudal attempt
Speaker 2: to keep files under locking key forever.
Speaker 3: It's insane. They're worried about the way they would look
Speaker 3: and how the public would no longer trust their government.
Speaker 2: And you look at the way Britain is right now.
Speaker 2: They have been infiltrated. They've absolutely been infiltrated, and you know,
Speaker 2: for the whole well, we don't want to be embarrassed.
Speaker 3: We want to make sure our taxpayers still have some
Speaker 3: sort of a confidence in our government. And then it
Speaker 3: got taken over it anyway.
Speaker 1: Nobody has any confidence and the government all going over
Speaker 1: there right now.
Speaker 2: So fine, no, I mean, granted, there's a lot of
Speaker 2: people that don't have a lot of confidence in the
Speaker 2: American government too, and like, okay.
Speaker 1: That's fair though, that's I mean, both both of them
Speaker 1: are pretty shitty right now. But I will say I
Speaker 1: think the UK is way more struggling than we are.
Speaker 3: Oh by leaps and bounds. Leaps and bounds, all right.
Speaker 2: So under thirty the thirty year rule, the four hundred
Speaker 2: documents should normally have been available years earlier. It was
Speaker 2: particularly surprising that twenty percent of the information was redacted
Speaker 2: or not released. Sounds like something we have going on
Speaker 2: in America right now. A news item at the time
Speaker 2: stated that it is clear the full story of the
Speaker 2: Cambridge spies has not yet emerged. A summary of the
Speaker 2: documents indicated that they showed an inaction and incompetence on
Speaker 2: the part of the authorities enabled Guy Burgess and Donald
Speaker 2: MacLean to make their escape to Moscow.
Speaker 3: Yeah, a bit. Additional secret files are released to the
Speaker 3: National Archives in twenty two.
Speaker 2: That's when the news clip that we played in the
Speaker 2: very beginning of this, that was from twenty twenty when
Speaker 2: this got released. They indicate that the government had intentionally
Speaker 2: conducted a campaign to keep Kim Philby's spying confidential quote,
Speaker 2: to minimize political embarrassment and to prevent the publication of
Speaker 2: his memoirs, according to a report by The Guardian. Nonetheless,
Speaker 2: the information was publicized in nineteen sixty seven when the
Speaker 2: Philby granted an interview with journalist Murray Sale of The Times.
Speaker 2: Philby confirmed that he had worked for the KGB and
Speaker 2: that his purpose in life was to destroy imperialism. This
Speaker 2: revelation raised concerns that Blunt's spying would also be revealed
Speaker 2: to the public. All right, So that's the over under
Speaker 2: of the whole Cambridge five and all the things. So
Speaker 2: now we already talked about the overarching story here.
Speaker 3: This is Kim Philby. I don't know what the fuck
Speaker 3: that woman was talking about.
Speaker 4: Nope, I don't say it. You know.
Speaker 2: This is Guy Burgess himself, the double agent. This is
Speaker 2: Don McLean, Donald MacLean, but yeah, they don't have a
Speaker 2: lot of pictures of him, but this is the guy.
Speaker 2: Next we go to Anthony Blunt. This is the artist
Speaker 2: person worked in the Royal Court.
Speaker 4: To be fair, he does look like something that would
Speaker 4: do that.
Speaker 3: Oh for sure. He has villain vibes, don't he.
Speaker 4: He's like, you know what I'm talking about. I creepiness.
Speaker 2: This is John Karen Cross, the guy who was stealing
Speaker 2: the nuclear secrets and everything.
Speaker 3: And again this is the man, the myth, the legend,
Speaker 3: Kim Philby, who looks like doesn't he?
Speaker 4: He really does.
Speaker 2: There's no way that you're looking at this dude and
Speaker 2: be like, oh, super suave, double O seven guy. He
Speaker 2: looks like your boy living down the street that sells
Speaker 2: vacuum cleaners or some shit, doesn't he?
Speaker 4: Yeah, he does.
Speaker 3: It's crazy. So again let's move forward.
Speaker 2: Here Kim Philby's German moonshine I don't want to read
Speaker 2: a whole lot of this, but they're well, actually, yeah,
Speaker 2: we can read this.
Speaker 4: Why not.
Speaker 2: This is an excerpt from the book Philby and SpyCatcher,
Speaker 2: the book that was written about these things. It says
Speaker 2: I used this month's report to address an outstanding question
Speaker 2: regarding Kim Philby and his actions on taking over Section
Speaker 2: nine of six, namely, was Philby up to? What was
Speaker 2: Philby up to in Europe in nineteen forty five? During
Speaker 2: this analysis, I shall be bearing in mind the subsidiary questions,
Speaker 2: which of the dates and locations of Philby's visits can
Speaker 2: be verified from other sources, What authority and what mission
Speaker 2: did Philby carry at those times? What was the strategy
Speaker 2: of six at the time of these visits, and how
Speaker 2: did these activities of Section nine relate to military strategy
Speaker 2: at the end of the war?
Speaker 3: All right, talk about it here.
Speaker 2: Some Kim Philby's travels in Europe in nineteen forty five,
Speaker 2: described in his memoirs My Silent War, may turn out
Speaker 2: not to be highly significant, but there are worth inspecting
Speaker 2: because they occurred at a critical time in the post
Speaker 2: war evolution of six, which at the time was SIS,
Speaker 2: and because his account of them contained some implausibilities. The
Speaker 2: details are not easily verifiable, suggesting some possible deception. And
Speaker 2: what fascinates me is the fact that Philby's undisciplined account was,
Speaker 2: so far as I know, not been challenged anywhere, although
Speaker 2: it has been distorted. This suggests to me either that
Speaker 2: a no one with any knowledge of the background has
Speaker 2: paid much attention to the anomalies inherent to this account,
Speaker 2: or b that it is more convenient to let Philby's
Speaker 2: fantasies endure, since they obscure some more embarrassing secrets that
Speaker 2: the authorities probably wanted to remain secret.
Speaker 3: So Philby had only recently.
Speaker 2: In October nineteen forty four, been appointed to the head
Speaker 2: of Section nine of six, which had been established in
Speaker 2: March of nineteen forty three. So it was a relatively
Speaker 2: newer organization, and he was put in charge of a
Speaker 2: big chunk of it dedicated to Soviet counter espionage and
Speaker 2: counter intelligence. Philby replaced John Curry, who having been loaned
Speaker 2: by five to six to lead and built the unit
Speaker 2: returned five in November of nineteen forty four. Section nine
Speaker 2: was an outgrowth from the wartime Section five that targeted
Speaker 2: the Abware and the other Nazi intelligence groups in which
Speaker 2: Philby had led the Iberian Section Spain. Such resources and
Speaker 2: skills that drove Section five success were now required for
Speaker 2: the task of frustrating the Soviet Union's.
Speaker 3: Designs for communism or communists subversion.
Speaker 2: Philby had managed to persuade Valentine Vivian to give him
Speaker 2: the job in place of the natural candidate, the diligent
Speaker 2: but deful difficult Felix Cowgill, who had managed very well
Speaker 2: Section five's operation of special control units in imbedded within
Speaker 2: the British Army. Calgil had, however, made himself unpopular with
Speaker 2: five because of his reluctance to share decryptied ultra intelligence,
Speaker 2: and Philby's skillfully courted his allies Lidwell and White within
Speaker 2: five to secure the position.
Speaker 3: So a little bit of right place, right time.
Speaker 2: The guy that could have taken the position was not
Speaker 2: very well liked, okay, And so then this guy Philip
Speaker 2: comes in and just says the right words, He's got
Speaker 2: the right marital connections, all the things. Why not, Oh,
Speaker 2: get I'm a shot. Philby gave a grudging appreciation of
Speaker 2: Calgil's skills and a report to his Moscow bosses, crediting
Speaker 2: him with an enormous capacity for work, aided by a
Speaker 2: prodigious memory, and combative in standing up for his principles,
Speaker 2: but he had few social graces, was unable to delegate,
Speaker 2: and failed to or failed at any task of diplomatic negotiation.
Speaker 2: Thus Calgil's ambitions were quickly snuffed. He returned from a
Speaker 2: visit to the USA and further journey to Germany in
Speaker 2: November of nineteen forty four and resigned in a huff
Speaker 2: when he discovered how he had been stabbed in the back.
Speaker 2: He's a rage quit. Basically, it is not my intention
Speaker 2: here to offer a comprehensive analysis of the evolution of
Speaker 2: Section nine, a difficult enough challenge anyway, given the paucity
Speaker 2: of sources.
Speaker 3: I don't know what that's supposed to mean.
Speaker 2: Rather, it is my goal to provide an accurate context
Speaker 2: of Philby's initiatives after he assumed leadership of the Section,
Speaker 2: thereby shedding light on his moments in nineteen forty five
Speaker 2: and maybe really revealing more about how he was viewed
Speaker 2: in six. It was a critical and sensitive time as
Speaker 2: the war began to wind down in the fresh threat
Speaker 2: of Soviet expansion in Europe and communists subversion of the
Speaker 2: democracies was recognized. A gradual shift in resources took place.
Speaker 2: Yet the assumption evident in the Express plans was that
Speaker 2: the transition from performing counterintelligence against one to Italian state
Speaker 2: to building an organization to thwart them the incursions of
Speaker 2: threats of Soviet Union would be relatively smooth. That was
Speaker 2: an analysis that at first failed to register. Some significant differences.
Speaker 2: The strength of Section five had been the successful exploitation
Speaker 2: of wireless traffic undertaken by German military and intelligence units
Speaker 2: operating on occupied territory. The enemy forces had been required
Speaker 2: to use radio instead of secure landlines. A massive investment
Speaker 2: in message capture by the Radio Secret Service and decipher
Speaker 2: decryption by the Government Code and Cipher School at Bletchley
Speaker 2: Park of the so called ultra traffic had allowed Section five,
Speaker 2: in collaboration with five, to build up extensive map of
Speaker 2: German units, movements, officers and missions, alongside information about their
Speaker 2: deployment of agents.
Speaker 3: This was supplemented by intelligence.
Speaker 2: Gained from air reconnaissance as well as contributions from citizens
Speaker 2: of these occupied territories who could provide ancillary information to
Speaker 2: fill out the inventory, a vital store house of data
Speaker 2: was captured and maintained that helped the Allied military effort.
Speaker 2: So the situation with the Soviet Union is very different.
Speaker 2: First of all, it was still technically an ally and
Speaker 2: there were factions, especially within the American Office of Strategic
Speaker 2: Service the OSS which would later become the CIA, and
Speaker 2: in the Foreign Office who looked forward to cooperating with
Speaker 2: the Soviet Union after the war. They would have tried
Speaker 2: to suffocate any plans for expanding Soviet counterintelligence work on
Speaker 2: the external communist threat had, however, been.
Speaker 3: Sadly neglected during the war. Both in my five and
Speaker 3: in my six, both of them did this.
Speaker 2: Wireless traffic was still very much a closed book, even
Speaker 2: though some Soviet messages may have still been collected. Decryption
Speaker 2: efforts had stopped after Barbarossa in June of nineteen forty one,
Speaker 2: not until nineteen forty three, when renewed efforts by the
Speaker 2: exile polls at Boxmoor and a successful project based at
Speaker 2: Berkeley Street in London under Denniston to decrypt x come
Speaker 2: common turn communications in Eastern Europe was the process of
Speaker 2: intelligence gathering resumed. In addition, the Soviet Union was heavily
Speaker 2: guarded citadel.
Speaker 3: SIS had no agents at all on its territory, and
Speaker 3: sis's officers and outlying stations were known to the NKVD.
Speaker 3: They were known. They already knew who the agents were
Speaker 3: and where they were. For example, when Archie Gibson moved
Speaker 3: from Turkey to Sofia in September of nineteen forty four,
Speaker 3: he was expelled a couple weeks later. What SIS officers,
Speaker 3: apart from Philby, of course, were not aware of, was
Speaker 3: that details of their complete organization, personnel and mission had
Speaker 3: been regularly handed over to Moscow. It was not a
Speaker 3: level playing field.
Speaker 2: They had spies in there in Britain, but apparently Britain
Speaker 2: didn't have any spies in Moscow that they could use
Speaker 2: to this advantage, all right, So then My Silent War
Speaker 2: by Kim Philbey, written in sixty eight. Maby's own account
Speaker 2: of his travels is elliptical. He starts at the beginning
Speaker 2: of nineteen forty five, when the Section nine was adequately
Speaker 2: staffed and housed, the time came for me to visit
Speaker 2: some of our field stations, and after a paragraph complimenting
Speaker 2: himself on the way that he repaired the damage, done
Speaker 2: by Harry Steptoe, Yeah Jesus Christ, with his station commanders
Speaker 2: universally approving Philby's decisive sacking of the man.
Speaker 3: He offered an assessment of the state of the state
Speaker 3: of counterintelligence. Our real target was invisible and inaudible. As
Speaker 3: far as we were concerned, The Soviet Intelligence Service might
Speaker 3: never have existed. The upshot of our discussions could be
Speaker 3: little more than a resolution to keep casting flies over
Speaker 3: the Soviet and East European diplomatic personnel and over members
Speaker 3: of the local communist parties. During my period of service,
Speaker 3: there was no single case of a.
Speaker 2: Excuse me, of a consciously conceived operation against so intelligence
Speaker 2: bearing fruit. We progressed only by means of windfalls that
Speaker 2: literally threw the stuff into our laps. With one or
Speaker 2: two exceptions to be noted later. These windfalls took the
Speaker 2: form of defectors from the Soviet Service. So one wonders
Speaker 2: whether he presented such bleak outlook to his bosses at
Speaker 2: the time, because this would have seemed to be, you know,
Speaker 2: no recipe for success, and he would surely have had
Speaker 2: to present a more positive and energetic front to justify
Speaker 2: his expansion plans. He used he went on to describe
Speaker 2: his sorties. These trips, which covered France, Germany, Italy and Greece,
Speaker 2: were to some extent educative, since they gave me insight
Speaker 2: into various types of SIS organizations in the field. But
Speaker 2: after each journey I concluded without emotion that it would
Speaker 2: take years to lay an effective basis for work against
Speaker 2: the Soviet Union. Indeed, he then regaled his laters his
Speaker 2: readers with a series of anecdotes from that summer, including
Speaker 2: the wineglass of chilled flit which I drained in Berlin, Okay,
Speaker 2: under the impression that it was near Steiner, as well
Speaker 2: memories of Rome, Barry and Larissa in Greece. My insant
Speaker 2: reaction on rereading this recently was one of disbelief for
Speaker 2: several reasons. First, the timing is impossible. The implication given
Speaker 2: that is that Philby visited such stations early in nineteen
Speaker 2: forty five. For Paris and other liberated cities, that would
Speaker 2: obviously have been practicable, but for Germany it would have
Speaker 2: been absurd, since the Nazi surrender did not take place
Speaker 2: until May seventh.
Speaker 3: And we should remember that Philby was back in London.
Speaker 2: In August of forty five, just before the Gozenko and
Speaker 2: Volkov evens took place, darring interruptions that disrupted his peace
Speaker 2: of mind. In any case where the outlying stations and
Speaker 2: previously occupied Europe reconstituted that quickly, and would it have
Speaker 2: not been easier for Philby to have been briefed to
Speaker 2: the station leaders in London anyway, So this guy kind
Speaker 2: of breaks down some of the more creative liberty claims
Speaker 2: that Philby makes in his book. And honestly, I can't
Speaker 2: say with certainty one way or another if these are
Speaker 2: legitimate or not, specifically because of the nature of the content.
Speaker 2: It's spycraft. So you're that's like talking to old guy
Speaker 2: that served in Vietnam. Yeah, when me and my unit
Speaker 2: got dropped into Laos, we did this and this like, wait, Americans.
Speaker 3: Didn't have forces in Laos, right, we totally didn't.
Speaker 2: You're right, But he knows what he's talking about because
Speaker 2: we had secret forces that got dropped in Laos and Cambodia.
Speaker 2: It's like, just because they weren't there doesn't mean they
Speaker 2: weren't actually there, if that makes sense. So anyway, all right,
Speaker 2: as we wrap up this episode, I did want to
Speaker 2: play this clip and it's a really good close out.
Speaker 2: Shout out to redacted the channel on YouTube the declassified
Speaker 2: Mysteries here Cambridge five, the spy scandal that broke six.
Speaker 2: I think this was an excellently done video. It's like
Speaker 2: thirty minutes long of him. I wants to go watch it,
Speaker 2: but I also think it's a great way to wrap
Speaker 2: the episode up.
Speaker 6: Words soon spread about Philby's defection, the betrayal by six's
Speaker 6: former counterintelligence chief. Since shockwaves through British intelligence. Since Philby, Burgess,
Speaker 6: and MacLean had all attended Cambridge University, the press dubbed
Speaker 6: it the Cambridge Spy scandal, but there were more secrets
Speaker 6: that would take almost two decades to surface. Nearly seventeen
Speaker 6: years after Philby fled to Russia. On November fifteenth, nineteen
Speaker 6: seventy nine, Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher spoke before the House
Speaker 6: of Commons. She confirmed what a recent newspaper article had exposed.
Speaker 6: Anthony Blunt, the Royal family's art curator and a Cambridge alumnus,
Speaker 6: had been a Soviets spy. Even more shocking, Blunt had
Speaker 6: confessed this back in nineteen sixty four, in exchange for
Speaker 6: immunity from prosecution for fifteen years. Many in the government,
Speaker 6: including the Royal household, had known of his treachery, yet
Speaker 6: allowed him to keep his prestigious position. The British public
Speaker 6: was stunned. Not only had Blunt passed sensitive information and
Speaker 6: names of British agents to the Soviets, potentially getting them killed,
Speaker 6: but their own government had covered it up to avoid embarrassment,
Speaker 6: and many wondered what other secrets the government was hiding
Speaker 6: if they could hide such a profound betrayal that long.
Speaker 6: In nineteen eighty one, they got an answer. Margaret Thatcher
Speaker 6: revealed yet another spy, John Cairncross, who was also recruited
Speaker 6: from Cambridge. From his position at the code breaking center
Speaker 6: Bletchley Park, he had passed decoded German messages to Moscow,
Speaker 6: giving the Soviets advanced warning of Nazi military operations. Like Blunt,
Speaker 6: his role as a double agent had been hidden from
Speaker 6: the public for fifteen years to avoid embarrassing the government.
Speaker 6: In the end, consequences caught up with all five Cambridge
Speaker 6: spies in one form or another. After Kim Philby arrived
Speaker 6: in Russia, he lived under house arrest for nearly a decade.
Speaker 6: Distrusted by the very people he'd served for years. Guy
Speaker 6: Burgess and Don MacLean both died in exile in Russia.
Speaker 6: Anthony Blunt was stripped of his positions and his knighthood
Speaker 6: and died three years later. John Cairncross was forced into
Speaker 6: exile in mainland Europe, but was eventually allowed to return
Speaker 6: to England before his death in nineteen ninety five. The
Speaker 6: Cambridge Five scandal permanently shook British society. The revelations spread
Speaker 6: across decades, exposed not just the stent of Soviet infiltration,
Speaker 6: but also the government's willingness to hide uncomfortable truths. The
Speaker 6: British public was left wondering how many lives have been
Speaker 6: sacrificed to protect the reputation of the establishment.
Speaker 4: I have to agree, honestly, I totally agree.
Speaker 3: What is your thoughts on this raven?
Speaker 2: I mean, this is a lot of people have never
Speaker 2: heard of the Cambridge Five and maybe some of our
Speaker 2: older cult members that were alive in the eighties, that
Speaker 2: are adults in the eighties, let me rephrase that to
Speaker 2: hear this news go out and possibly even alive in
Speaker 2: the seventies, to hear that Thatcher had said these things,
Speaker 2: they may remember this. I feel like a lot of
Speaker 2: people of our generation have never heard of the Cambridge
Speaker 2: Five and have no idea about the story that goes
Speaker 2: into this.
Speaker 1: I feel like a lot of us know the movies,
Speaker 1: the spy movies, and some of them that are based
Speaker 1: off of things like this, like Salt, for example, the
Speaker 1: one with Angeline and how they're embedded, you know, and
Speaker 1: they've been here for a long long time and all
Speaker 1: this stuff and they couldn't believe it, and she's a
Speaker 1: double spy.
Speaker 4: And there's a lot of movies that are like this.
Speaker 1: So I think the idea of it is not foreign
Speaker 1: to those of us that haven't heard about it, but
Speaker 1: the actual narrative and what really took place in how
Speaker 1: long they were in play, and all of all the
Speaker 1: things that they did.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't I don't believe that a lot of
Speaker 4: people know about it.
Speaker 1: I think it's interesting because it is a part of
Speaker 1: our history that has led us to this point. And
Speaker 1: then that poses questions of how many other spies from
Speaker 1: other nations are here in America versus us over there
Speaker 1: in their places, and you know, what are they actually infiltrating?
Speaker 4: Are they swaying the media? Are they swing. Are they
Speaker 4: the ones whispering?
Speaker 1: You know, because I forget who we talked about that
Speaker 1: infiltrated religion, that group that infiltrated religious groups throughout history.
Speaker 4: No, there's a I forget who we talked to. I'm
Speaker 4: gonna have to think about it.
Speaker 1: There's a group that probably one of cole members remember,
Speaker 1: talked to somebody a couple of months ago that I
Speaker 1: was talking about this specific group a strange brew did.
Speaker 1: There's a group that infiltrated and he believes is one
Speaker 1: of the reasons why a lot of the narratives of
Speaker 1: like hate and distrust has been sewn in different religions.
Speaker 4: Oh, yes, I think maybe that's it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And you know, if it's a spy network of
Speaker 1: some type or an organization of some type that's infiltrating,
Speaker 1: I mean, like you know, Scientology did it too, so
Speaker 1: I mean it's not just spies, it's all sorts of
Speaker 1: people that are doing this kind of spy esque work
Speaker 1: to change narratives and stuff.
Speaker 2: I'm so glad you brought up Scientology because we did
Speaker 2: an episode on Operations Snow White, and you body wants
Speaker 2: to go back and listen to that. Go for but
Speaker 2: The short and dirty of it is, the Church of
Speaker 2: Scientology had tons of members joined the FBI and the
Speaker 2: CIA rise to the levels of upper echelon people just
Speaker 2: so they could go in and remove all files and
Speaker 2: all intelligence done on any members of the church itself.
Speaker 3: And this is exposed. But at that point there was
Speaker 3: nothing that could be done.
Speaker 4: Yeah, this happens.
Speaker 1: So, I mean, it happens, I think with all sorts
Speaker 1: of things, and so you know, I'm I think it's
Speaker 1: a good store.
Speaker 4: I mean, it's not so story.
Speaker 1: I think it's a good historical information to at least
Speaker 1: know that this took place and that they were able
Speaker 1: to operate for that long and continuously still by themselves
Speaker 1: time and push more information out and some nerdy guy
Speaker 1: was the only reason why they were able to even
Speaker 1: catch a code. So you know that, you know, how
Speaker 1: many other things have taken place that we don't know
Speaker 1: about and stuff, especially if they're willing to go to
Speaker 1: such links to cover it up. I mean, fifteen years
Speaker 1: of not telling nobody about it is quite a long time.
Speaker 2: Right, And it's not like the American government's any better that.
Speaker 2: Oh no, not an ample would be Operation snow White.
Speaker 2: That's not publicly known, this public information. Anybody could google
Speaker 2: this and see the extents, the lengths of people, all
Speaker 2: the things. The American government hasn't like given a press
Speaker 2: conference to confirm this, because that's a massive embarrassment.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 2: It's the same for any intelligence agency.
Speaker 3: And of course you would have double agents. Right.
Speaker 2: You got somebody who is a high level spy over here,
Speaker 2: so they're already good at the spycraft.
Speaker 3: I wonder if we could throw a little money their
Speaker 3: way to make them go this way.
Speaker 2: However, it's different with the Cambridge five because they weren't
Speaker 2: being paid for their work.
Speaker 4: No, this is just SI ideology, and those are the
Speaker 4: more dangerous ones.
Speaker 2: I feel like, yes, they were doing this because they
Speaker 2: were true red. I was gonna say, true blue, no, no, no,
Speaker 2: true red believers of the communist ideals, and they wanted
Speaker 2: to see a communist revolution across the world. You're absolutely correct.
Speaker 2: An ideal is so much harder to get rid of
Speaker 2: and so much harder to detect. And if you're curious, like, well,
Speaker 2: how are they able to keep it under wraps? For
Speaker 2: twenty fucking years? These guys were able to hide the
Speaker 2: fact that they were actually communists.
Speaker 3: This has been done.
Speaker 4: Yeah, for years, it's still being done right now.
Speaker 1: I mean it's look at our look at our government, Like,
Speaker 1: let's take away everybody else's government. Look at our government
Speaker 1: right now, yep. And the people that are in play
Speaker 1: and the things that are in motion and what they're doing.
Speaker 1: And it's like, so we're not gonna call it for
Speaker 1: what we what it is, and we're not gonna maybe
Speaker 1: call it the behavior and some of the radical things
Speaker 1: that you're discussing and the things that you're saying that
Speaker 1: is anti American, anti American people, let's be more more specific,
Speaker 1: anti American people. Yeah, and you're just able to somehow
Speaker 1: hold a position of power and you're not being held
Speaker 1: accountable and you're not being investigated and you're not being
Speaker 1: looked into for having spy connections.
Speaker 4: I mean the Hunter Biden.
Speaker 1: Situation too, look at all of what they did and
Speaker 1: it's known fact and there's been so many people that
Speaker 1: have come out, so much evidence that have come out,
Speaker 1: and nothing happened. And you know, by the way, Hunter
Speaker 1: trying to fight Trump's kids is a whole thing that's
Speaker 1: going on right now. I don't know, no, like actually
Speaker 1: like a cage fight, I will share, I will show
Speaker 1: you the video.
Speaker 4: I will show you the video for tonight for the live.
Speaker 4: But yeah, no, it's it's a real thing that's going on.
Speaker 3: But I would pay good money. I mean I would,
Speaker 3: I would pay good money to watch Eric Trump.
Speaker 4: Mm hmmm. I think I think you called that baron. Honestly,
Speaker 4: I think I forget you call it two of them. Yeah,
Speaker 4: old boy kid, big old boy that he is like.
Speaker 3: Massive, that dude. If he puts his palls on meteor, it's.
Speaker 4: Like the whole head Like yeah, so my god, that's
Speaker 4: a side little note.
Speaker 3: But I forgot that.
Speaker 1: I didn't tell you about it. The other day, some
Speaker 1: one of the colmen, remember, sent it to us and
Speaker 1: I looked into it. No, it's actually and like multiple
Speaker 1: cult members sent it to us. But we'll have to
Speaker 1: talk about it tonight the life. Yeah. But yeah, no,
Speaker 1: I mean when we're talking about stuff like this, so
Speaker 1: that it has already been taking place for a long time.
Speaker 1: I mean, spy has been around though, forever and ever
Speaker 1: and ever, right, But to not acknowledge that these things
Speaker 1: are happening though it's it just sews more distrust into
Speaker 1: the governments and the agencies and stuff. Because it's like, okay,
Speaker 1: so you're covering up everything. You should be putting these
Speaker 1: people on.
Speaker 4: Blasts so that we know, you know, at least at
Speaker 4: least know that this is happening and know what potentially
Speaker 4: is going to come from it.
Speaker 3: So yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 4: That's what my opinion on it.
Speaker 3: Not agree. But this is why I thought it was
Speaker 3: interesting to bring this up. A not a lot of
Speaker 3: people know about it.
Speaker 2: B it is inherently conspiratorial. See, it covers a very
Speaker 2: wild time in world history, right before World War two,
Speaker 2: during war World War two, into the Cold War, all
Speaker 2: these things, and it traverses the key players.
Speaker 1: Here like real shit, And no, twenty ten, the one
Speaker 1: dude died, right, yeah, yeah, so like what sixteen years ago.
Speaker 4: That's not that long ago.
Speaker 3: So and they're still not releasing twenty sixteen, they still
Speaker 3: weren't releasing the files to talk about it.
Speaker 2: Twenty twenty they finally released all the documentation to say, hey, guys,
Speaker 2: we might have fucked up a bit.
Speaker 1: But again, twenty twenty was one of those times when
Speaker 1: things were being removed from the Internet by mass droves,
Speaker 1: and then you have other information being dropped, and then
Speaker 1: people are just kind of ignoring everything that's going on
Speaker 1: because everyone's just like, oh, fuck my life.
Speaker 3: Not COVID instead of this whole thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, no, there's a lot, and man, COVID is
Speaker 1: a whole another thing that's going on right now. Still
Speaker 1: fighters getting no backing, and it's a whole bunch of stuff.
Speaker 1: But like, all of this still pertain to what we
Speaker 1: are doing right now. And then globally it pertains because
Speaker 1: then we have a lot of governments across the world
Speaker 1: that are being infiltrated and potentially we could call them.
Speaker 4: By spies or you know, ideologic radicalists.
Speaker 1: So it's it all pertains and it's all still conspiracy
Speaker 1: quote unquote, even though we can all see the patterns.
Speaker 2: So and I agree with you, and this is why
Speaker 2: I also find it's so terrifying how our universities operate
Speaker 2: today and how these college kids are still being indoctrinated
Speaker 2: with these crazy ideals that don't make sense. Like, no
Speaker 2: logical person really believes this, No grown up believe well,
Speaker 2: I should say no normal logical grown up believes that
Speaker 2: there's more than two genders, right, They don't believe in
Speaker 2: the amazing amount of rhetoric that's coming out of this.
Speaker 2: Have you ever looked at these interviews with the people
Speaker 2: that are at the No Kings protests?
Speaker 4: Yes, I've watched many, many of them.
Speaker 3: They don't actually have and listen. Listen. Whether I agree
Speaker 3: with the ideology or not. Whatever.
Speaker 2: If you're protesting for something that you are well versed in,
Speaker 2: you know what the fuck you're talking about, and you
Speaker 2: want to stand in Unison and make a march happen, Okay,
Speaker 2: that is your right as an American citizen. Fuck yeah again,
Speaker 2: I might disagree with you, but okay, none of these
Speaker 2: people at the No King's protest have like collectively two
Speaker 2: brain cells to rub together.
Speaker 4: It's my again.
Speaker 1: It goes back to what I was saying earlier, the
Speaker 1: rhetoric on repeat of what the same language over and
Speaker 1: over and over again, as the regurgitation of it is
Speaker 1: what a lot of people that go to different types
Speaker 1: of protests, but specifically the ones that we've been seeing,
Speaker 1: a lot of people are saying the same thing over
Speaker 1: and over. What the media shows them, what the algorithms
Speaker 1: are showing them, what they heard from their professors that
Speaker 1: are biased, the textbooks in which that they say this
Speaker 1: same things over and over again. I mean, I have
Speaker 1: textbooks here. There's a book here I actually have that
Speaker 1: was that I was told to read in school. And
Speaker 1: it is the most propaganda crazy Redderick book that I've
Speaker 1: ever read in my life. And this was written well passed, like,
Speaker 1: this was written in the early nineteen ten nineteen twenty area,
Speaker 1: and then it was adopted and indoctrinated pretty much in
Speaker 1: the nineteen sixties, and then it's been being quietly pushed
Speaker 1: into all of these areas and it is very and
Speaker 1: I'm not going to go into what it actually talks about,
Speaker 1: because that's a whole other beast, but what it talks
Speaker 1: about is something that is you see consistently on mainstream
Speaker 1: media and the leftist conversation and a lot of the
Speaker 1: division talk and the hatred and all of these things.
Speaker 1: And it stems from these types of books that made
Speaker 1: their way into this and that now have been being
Speaker 1: used for you know, decades pretty much. And now we're
Speaker 1: to the point where these children are getting the same
Speaker 1: crap on over and over repeat, and this is going
Speaker 1: to play into their ideology and how they view the world,
Speaker 1: and so like, yeah, we don't need cursive, we don't
Speaker 1: need this we.
Speaker 4: Don't need to learn the independence.
Speaker 1: We don't we don't need this we you know, I
Speaker 1: believe you know, Trump is the devil in an Antichrist,
Speaker 1: which I will say some of his posts are definitely
Speaker 1: pointing towards like ANTICHRISTI vibes. But he is he is
Speaker 1: a whole beast in and of himself, that is a
Speaker 1: shit human being that should be held accountable for a
Speaker 1: lot of things. That being said, though, like we still
Speaker 1: were not looking at all the key players in this,
Speaker 1: We're just looking at specific ones instead of all. Every
Speaker 1: state has our own players, and every state is doing
Speaker 1: their own things that are all adding to the collective
Speaker 1: of taking away Americans' rights. So doesn't matter if it's
Speaker 1: right or left. Both sides are doing this. But the
Speaker 1: children aren't recognizing that they're being brainwashed and they don't
Speaker 1: want to wake up.
Speaker 2: So one hundred percent, and to that point, everybody thinks that,
Speaker 2: you know, Obama was the one that was doing horrible things.
Speaker 2: Everybody thinks Bush was the one that was doing horrible things.
Speaker 2: Keep in mind, y'all, the Patriot Act, where the government
Speaker 2: got permissioned to spy on all of us at any
Speaker 2: given time for no reason whatsoever was passed under Bush,
Speaker 2: So that was the right doing this shit. Then you
Speaker 2: look at the amount of rhetoric and foolishness that was
Speaker 2: passed under Obama and the clumsy, ham fisted way that
Speaker 2: they handled any of their intelligence, and the whole thing there,
Speaker 2: and the social media game and the news and how
Speaker 2: things are portrayed. So it was a propaganda on the
Speaker 2: left and a control and spying on the right. We
Speaker 2: are getting double fisted by our political system right now.
Speaker 3: It does not matter what side of the aisle, what color,
Speaker 3: which letter designation.
Speaker 2: Well, the size for a low taxes, this size for
Speaker 2: eut of taxes, You're getting fucked either way. It's not
Speaker 2: even a hypothetical, that is a mathematical fact at this point.
Speaker 2: And I would argue it's been that way for a while,
Speaker 2: but we now know this for a fact and we
Speaker 2: can cite our sources on it.
Speaker 3: If that makes sense. Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 2: So anyway, and this all ties in with an episode
Speaker 2: that we did a while back on the Peristorca deception,
Speaker 2: which is when communist.
Speaker 3: Ideals made their way into America in media.
Speaker 2: Right, this goes into spy versus spy, which we've talked
Speaker 2: about so many times. This goes into how our government,
Speaker 2: their government, whoever they might be, whoever you just thought of, correct,
Speaker 2: them too, are all connected and are all doing this
Speaker 2: to each other.
Speaker 3: Keep in mind, we have American spies in England right
Speaker 3: now and in France in our allies. We have spies
Speaker 3: inside of our allies nation right now. We also have
Speaker 3: spies in our enemies nations and the same can be
Speaker 3: said for them. It's all happening all at the same time.
Speaker 3: And I think this was a good one to bring up.
Speaker 4: Honestly, yeah, I agree.
Speaker 3: So as we wrap this episode up, good cult members.
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Speaker 3: we wrap this up, we want to hear from you
Speaker 3: all this spy network, all of the things that were
Speaker 3: going on for years under the radar, then when it
Speaker 3: was brought to light, it still got kept under wraps.
Speaker 2: Where do you think the truth and lies start and
Speaker 2: stop here? Where do you think our government ties into this?
Speaker 2: What do our British listeners think about this? We want
Speaker 2: to hear from you, good cult members in the best
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Speaker 3: Gentlemen, why are you gonna go to minimistics?
Speaker 2: Jonathan's of the show and getting the same lover respect
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Speaker 3: Links to those are in the description as well. And
Speaker 3: we thank you for everybody's already gone and done so.
Speaker 2: With all of this being said, this was another beautiful
Speaker 2: episode of the Coats of Conspiracy. And I'm the Cajun
Speaker 2: Knights and there's one very important, extremely vital piece of
Speaker 2: information we need you lett to just as soon as
Speaker 2: humanly possible.
Speaker 1: No pay of that