Speaker 1: A case that, at first glance, seems to be inspired
Speaker 1: by the horror franchise Saw One that would also inspire
Speaker 1: another Hollywood movie that would star Jesse Eisenberg and Danny McBride.
Speaker 1: Now you might be thinking that a case that has
Speaker 1: this sort of movie industry connection surely would have a
Speaker 1: crazy and wild story. Well you'd be right. Today we
Speaker 1: talk about a man who lived his last minutes with
Speaker 1: a bomb strapped to his body while surrounded by police.
Speaker 1: A man who is in the middle of a scavenger
Speaker 1: hunt to save his own life as the seconds ticked by.
Speaker 1: Today we talk about a man whose death has people
Speaker 1: sitting behind bars, yet his case is still a mystery.
Speaker 1: This is the story of Brian Wells. My name's Ben,
Speaker 1: I'm Nicole, and this is wicked and grim.
Speaker 2: Warning.
Speaker 1: The following podcast material in more mature audience listener disction
Speaker 1: is how's it going?
Speaker 2: Welcome back?
Speaker 1: Did you guys like our new intro? We changed it
Speaker 1: up just a little bit.
Speaker 2: We tweaked it ever so slightly.
Speaker 1: We thought it might flow a little better, be a
Speaker 1: little bit, uh, a little bit I don't know, more
Speaker 1: professional sounding, I don't know, what do.
Speaker 2: You think We're a pretty professional.
Speaker 1: We're total pros as we sit here and drinking our
Speaker 1: rumen eggnog.
Speaker 2: Maser in our tiny home. There you go, life.
Speaker 1: We hope you guys are having the good holiday spirit
Speaker 1: finally catching up with you. It is officially October, so
Speaker 1: October wow, wow, Wow, it is December.
Speaker 2: Holy shit, you're in Ben's still living in Halloween left.
Speaker 1: This is Halloween. Okay, wow, that's that just hit me
Speaker 1: like a ton of bricks. Okay, clearly we know her mind.
Speaker 1: My mind's that I prefer Halloween than Christmas. But it
Speaker 1: is December. Christmas is coming around the corner. Hopefully you're
Speaker 1: getting into the holiday spirit.
Speaker 2: It's pretty it's kind of almost hard not to, but
Speaker 2: it also gonna be annoying. I mean I was even
Speaker 2: just grocery shopping and everywhere just just has Halloween or
Speaker 2: fucks music playing right.
Speaker 1: Halloween on the brain.
Speaker 2: Yeah, everywhere you go, so they just kind of like,
Speaker 2: shove it, shove it down your throat. There you go.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, I don't get me wrong, I do
Speaker 1: enjoy Christmas. It's not by any means my favorite holiday.
Speaker 1: I like, you know, getting together and seeing family members
Speaker 1: that sort of stuff. But the whole consumers and part
Speaker 1: fucking hate.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's year. It gets a little worse in that sense.
Speaker 2: I feel, Yeah, it's just by the by this, by this,
Speaker 2: by this, no, and how much you spend is important
Speaker 2: and everything when really like if you just made someone
Speaker 2: say Christmas race, Rispy Squares or something that should be
Speaker 2: enough totally yeah.
Speaker 1: Or if you sat down altogether and listened to a
Speaker 1: true crime podcast on Christmas Day even better? Right now,
Speaker 1: that is the true meaning of Christmas. Yeah, we got
Speaker 1: we got some patrons to thank, as you always do.
Speaker 1: So this past week we had Sophia Smith join us
Speaker 1: over on Patreon.
Speaker 2: Thank you.
Speaker 1: We had Eli thank you for messaging us and telling
Speaker 1: us how to pronounce your name totally would have got
Speaker 1: it wrong. And Heather Nonya join us awesome. So thank
Speaker 1: you so much for joining us over on Patreon. If
Speaker 1: you want to join us as well, link is in
Speaker 1: the description. If not, it's cool just being here regardless,
Speaker 1: So thank you for that.
Speaker 2: Too, y'all.
Speaker 1: Rock We've got some bombs to drop this week, two
Speaker 1: big bombs.
Speaker 2: Two big bombs per USU.
Speaker 1: First off, the Boy in the Box.
Speaker 2: The Boy in the Box.
Speaker 1: Has finally being identified, though they haven't released the identification
Speaker 1: of the individual.
Speaker 2: I wonder if they will.
Speaker 1: I believe they're going to. Oh really, I think it's
Speaker 1: just it's just such new information. There's things to go
Speaker 1: through and stuff, of course, so they haven't released the
Speaker 1: name yet. But finally the boy in the box has
Speaker 1: a name.
Speaker 2: Because how many years is that? Well?
Speaker 1: I think it was like the sixties or something, wasn't it.
Speaker 2: I can't remember, but it was. I thought it was
Speaker 2: like twenty years, but it must have been longer then.
Speaker 1: Oh, it's it's been a while. I'm pretty sure it
Speaker 1: was in the sixties. Oh, fifties fifty seven? Woween fifty seven.
Speaker 2: You know that's interesting because people think, oh, it's been
Speaker 2: this many years ago, I want to get away with whatever.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, they're always they always still have these cases
Speaker 2: kind of on the back burner where they're probably looking
Speaker 2: or have one person or two people assigned to them, right, and.
Speaker 1: Lots of times in these sort of cases, they're retired
Speaker 1: individuals who are just still chugging away, who haven't given up.
Speaker 2: Wow, which is so cool, that's really cool.
Speaker 1: But yeah. They have also said that charges can still
Speaker 1: be filed if they have a perpetrator. So that is awesome,
Speaker 1: super looking forward to that. And also in true crime news,
Speaker 1: the Casey Anthony documentary has officially been released.
Speaker 2: It sure was, and we watched, We watched the doozy.
Speaker 1: We did a couple of things on this. First and foremost,
Speaker 1: we loudly and proudly did not pay any money towards
Speaker 1: her in this documentary because we powerated it. We want
Speaker 1: to make sure she got absolutely zero dollars from us
Speaker 1: watching watching this thing. So there, so shout out to
Speaker 1: my brother in law. He said that I had to
Speaker 1: actually shout him out and give him the props. Oh really, yes,
Speaker 1: so Darcy.
Speaker 2: Along with the beer and along with the beer.
Speaker 1: That I that I gave him. Yeah, so Darcy downloaded
Speaker 1: it for us, my brother in law and over our
Speaker 1: way and we got to watch it. So yeah, that's
Speaker 1: a whole thing we're going to be unpacking.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're going to be doing that, I think via
Speaker 2: a YouTube video.
Speaker 1: Yea.
Speaker 2: That will we'll let y'all know when it's out.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And we will say this right now, we do
Speaker 1: not recommend you watch it because she is going to
Speaker 1: be earning money from this documentary.
Speaker 2: Do you know that?
Speaker 1: For a fact, let's put it this way with it.
Speaker 1: Peacock TV. Who ye, Yeah, they have not disclosed if
Speaker 1: she is earning or.
Speaker 2: Not, and I just think which means she is. The
Speaker 2: way it was went about, I'm sure she is. Okar oh,
Speaker 2: that's disturbing.
Speaker 1: So she is literally profiting off the death of her
Speaker 1: own three year old daughter. If you want to listen
Speaker 1: to her story, we did do a podcast episode on it,
Speaker 1: so you can go check that out, but we do
Speaker 1: not recommend you listen to or watch your documentary. We
Speaker 1: will talk about it in our YouTube and tell you
Speaker 1: everything on why coming soon, Because.
Speaker 2: I mean, I was just gonna say people have profited
Speaker 2: from deaths and stuff, but lots of times it is
Speaker 2: a in a better way in the sense where they
Speaker 2: create a charity or something where they're raising money for
Speaker 2: something really good.
Speaker 1: And not to say that like I'm not going maybe she.
Speaker 2: Is, hopefully, but i't.
Speaker 1: Well, I'm not going to say like we are are
Speaker 1: holier than thou because we do earn revenue from this podcast.
Speaker 1: We technically are earning from this these stories as well,
Speaker 1: So that is the case, But we didn't kill our
Speaker 1: own daughter, potentially kill our own daughter and go on
Speaker 1: to talk about it for money.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So yeah, well, well we'll be chatting more about this.
Speaker 2: It will it needs more than just in the intro
Speaker 2: of a podcast.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's going to have at least a whole episode
Speaker 1: on its owns. Put it that way. Yeah, but it
Speaker 1: will be released on our YouTube, which we will be
Speaker 1: letting you guys know when it's released. Absolutely, so all
Speaker 1: that news and goodness and not so goodness aside. Are
Speaker 1: you ready to go into this today?
Speaker 2: I'm ready.
Speaker 1: So this is the story of Brian Wells. What do
Speaker 1: you know about the story of Brian Wells? Tell me.
Speaker 2: Shit? Because you told me some things and now I'm like, fuck,
Speaker 2: was I not listening? I white kind of remember some
Speaker 2: things that you said? But then now I'm like, is
Speaker 2: that what? I always have too many cases in my
Speaker 2: head at once, but something to do about.
Speaker 1: Well, I just read the intro to you. I know
Speaker 1: you forget it all already.
Speaker 2: A bank robbery, Well, yes, someone was forced to do it, right,
Speaker 2: Is that right?
Speaker 1: There's a bank robbery that occurs, Yes, there's an individual
Speaker 1: with a bomb strapped to them. Yes, this case. Some
Speaker 1: people argue there's actually a whole documentary that that claims
Speaker 1: that it potentially was inspired by the movie Saw, the
Speaker 1: franchise movie Saw, where you know, Jigsaw puts people in
Speaker 1: these traps and plays with their lives and toys with them.
Speaker 2: I don't think I've watched that.
Speaker 1: You've never seen Saw.
Speaker 2: I don't think I.
Speaker 1: Geez, you gotta watch that. But anyway, some argue this
Speaker 1: or Sauce series inspired these events. Really now, factually this
Speaker 1: inspired the movie Thirty Minutes or Less.
Speaker 2: Okay, also, haven't watched that.
Speaker 1: It's a Hollywood blockbuster movie that's a comedy starring Jesse
Speaker 1: Eisenberg and Danny McBride where Jesse Eisenberg, a pizza delivery man,
Speaker 1: gets a bomb forcefully strapped upon him and he has
Speaker 1: to follow certain steps and everything otherwise he will blow
Speaker 1: up and die. And to follow these steps bombs removed,
Speaker 1: and Danny McBride is the one who straps it to them.
Speaker 1: You go through their antics in the movie. Okay, so
Speaker 1: that case, or say that movie was inspired by this case.
Speaker 2: Okay, so shitty, that's terrifying.
Speaker 1: All that being said, let's get into the meat and potatoes,
Speaker 1: shall we.
Speaker 2: Let's do it.
Speaker 1: Okay. So on August twenty eighth, two thousand and three,
Speaker 1: a man with a cane casually strolled into a P
Speaker 1: and Z bank in Erie, Pennsylvania. He patiently waited for
Speaker 1: his turn to speak with the bank teller, and he
Speaker 1: walked up to the counter. The teller saw a middle
Speaker 1: aged man, white man standing in front of her with
Speaker 1: some gray hair glasses as he handed her a white envelope.
Speaker 1: This wasn't exactly abnormal. White envelopes and envelopes of any
Speaker 1: shape and size and color get passed to the bank
Speaker 1: teller on a regular basis, often containing cash or checks
Speaker 1: that need to be deposited. However, when the woman behind
Speaker 1: the counter opened the envelope, there was instead a letter
Speaker 1: inside that had many pages, but a highlighted section that read, now,
Speaker 1: gather employees with access codes and work fast to fill
Speaker 1: the bag with two hundred and fifty thousand dollars. You
Speaker 1: have only fifteen minutes.
Speaker 2: Good, that's a lot of money.
Speaker 1: That's a good chunk of change.
Speaker 2: That's a lot of money.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't mind earning two hundred and fifty thousand dollars
Speaker 1: and fifteen minutes, that's for sure.
Speaker 2: No, but in a better way, I would.
Speaker 1: Hope, So I would hope so maybe in a lottery
Speaker 1: fashion or shit.
Speaker 2: There you go.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so the bank teller read the letter in shock
Speaker 1: and confusion. She looked back at the man, who nods
Speaker 1: to her and pulls down the collar of his shirt
Speaker 1: to show her what's underneath his shirt. Now it was
Speaker 1: obvious there had been something under his shirt this entire time,
Speaker 1: but didn't really cause any reason for an alarm up
Speaker 1: until now, because now she realized the danger she was in.
Speaker 1: Underneath the man's shirt was a metal box a fixed
Speaker 1: to a collar that locked tightly around his neck. She
Speaker 1: knew instantly it was a bomb and had no question
Speaker 1: in her mind as to if it was real or not.
Speaker 2: Oh what does she do?
Speaker 1: That?
Speaker 2: Right there? Is terrifying.
Speaker 1: Put yourself in that position pants you Yeah, just I'm peeing.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, sir, Yeah, get your money on peeing.
Speaker 2: That's just scary.
Speaker 1: But what would you do? I'm sure there's procedures, I'm.
Speaker 2: Sure there is. I mean you'd have to go to
Speaker 2: like a supervisor or a manager, and they, I think
Speaker 2: would be calling the shots.
Speaker 1: I don't think you have the ability to just go
Speaker 1: to a supervisor manager to be like, excuse me, Sarah,
Speaker 1: can you and your bomb. Hold on for a second,
Speaker 1: I gotta find my manager. I don't know how to
Speaker 1: do it.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, but you wouldn't have I don't think that
Speaker 2: person would have the authority to ever withdraw two hundred
Speaker 2: and fifty grand.
Speaker 1: Though I see where you go, and I see where
Speaker 1: you going.
Speaker 2: She would need someone in more of an authority figure
Speaker 2: at the bank. I see right.
Speaker 1: Well, to answer that question, let's continue on.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 1: So the letter also contained information regarding the bomb the
Speaker 1: shotgun the man was holding, which was also disguised as
Speaker 1: a cane.
Speaker 2: Oh seriously, yeah, okay.
Speaker 1: And it also contained information to not contact the police
Speaker 1: or it would of course not end well.
Speaker 2: Yes, So the woman looked.
Speaker 1: At the man, looked back down at the letter in
Speaker 1: her hand, and she wasn't going to be able to
Speaker 1: comply with his demands because, like you said, she doesn't
Speaker 1: have the authority. So the bank manager, who was the
Speaker 1: only one with an access code to the vault, wasn't
Speaker 1: currently on.
Speaker 2: Site, oh my gosh.
Speaker 1: And wasn't due back for about an hour.
Speaker 2: Oh no, yeah, okay, that is not good.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well yeah, yeah, So this bank teller quickly told
Speaker 1: another teller to go find Aubrey and then quickly came
Speaker 1: to a compromise with the man who was giving her,
Speaker 1: who was at the teller. The compromise was, sorry, the
Speaker 1: compromise was to give him all the cash available in
Speaker 1: her till, as well as the rest of the tills,
Speaker 1: because anything else just wasn't possible exactly. I mean he
Speaker 1: kind of like it wasn't immediately, like she's like, I'll
Speaker 1: just give you this cash, and he's like okay. But
Speaker 1: I mean they did come to a compromise rather quickly,
Speaker 1: and I dosuing it.
Speaker 2: They would all be assuming he's the bad guy, right
Speaker 2: regardless of the bomb being strapped to him. You would
Speaker 2: think he's the one with this demands right.
Speaker 1: Well, he is the one with the demands right now.
Speaker 2: I know, but you'd kind of question why he'd have
Speaker 2: a bomb on him.
Speaker 1: Well, I did tell you earlier that there's an individual.
Speaker 1: I told you there's going to be an explosion, there's
Speaker 1: gonna be someone who's forced in the situations. But I
Speaker 1: never have yet said anything about this man if he
Speaker 1: is the man. So you're jumping a little bit ahead.
Speaker 2: Well, I know, but I'm also just thinking that that
Speaker 2: wouldn't make sense if you're robbing a bank, You're not
Speaker 2: going to be putting a bomb on yourself. And I'm
Speaker 2: just curious if those people would realize that.
Speaker 1: Why wouldn't he put a bomb on himself? Why would
Speaker 1: you to get leverage over the bank.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but then you're just putting your own life at
Speaker 2: risk there.
Speaker 1: You're questioning way too many things, way too soon. Let's
Speaker 1: put it that way.
Speaker 2: Okay, shit, Okay, I'll buckle up here. Sorry.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you are way too far ahead and have not
Speaker 1: near enough in I have.
Speaker 2: No idea what's going on on, no clue.
Speaker 1: You're like still on the tarmac of the airplane and
Speaker 1: you want to release your parachute.
Speaker 2: Wow, that would actually be me pretty much.
Speaker 1: So yeah, regardless, they came to a compromise, and she's
Speaker 1: going to start giving him the bank out of the till. Now.
Speaker 1: The other employees at the bank looked up when they
Speaker 1: heard this, and some of them whispered something back to
Speaker 1: other people, and they started walking some other individuals out
Speaker 1: the front of the bank, nice and calmly and slowly.
Speaker 2: Good call.
Speaker 1: So, once she had emptied her till, they were working
Speaker 1: on emptying all the remaining tills until a canvas bag
Speaker 1: the man was holding held everything that was available, which
Speaker 1: was approximately eight thousand dollars.
Speaker 2: Oh man, that's not enough.
Speaker 1: It's a far cris two hundred and fifty grand. So
Speaker 1: the entire time the man had a very calm demeanor
Speaker 1: about him, and once the transaction was done, this was
Speaker 1: further shown as he grabs a complimentary lollipop from the
Speaker 1: character with the bank, unwraps it and starts eat it
Speaker 1: before he walks out the front door.
Speaker 2: I kind of love that. Wow, Okay, like I don't
Speaker 2: like this, any of this, but the fact that he
Speaker 2: just like gets a lollipop, you know, gets as an
Speaker 2: adult lollipop guild.
Speaker 1: Sorry, now, I'm just I love that. As he was
Speaker 1: chouned down on the lollipop and walked out the front door,
Speaker 1: he drove in his He got in his car and drove.
Speaker 2: Away, okay, with the eight grand.
Speaker 1: With the eight grand. It was only after he left
Speaker 1: the premises the staff contacted authorities about the robbery. Also,
Speaker 1: it is noted that there was no employee at the
Speaker 1: bank called Aubrey. This was actually a code word that
Speaker 1: the bank tellers used that they could inform each other
Speaker 1: that they were being robbed without being too obvious.
Speaker 2: Okay, I get it.
Speaker 1: So that's pretty cool.
Speaker 2: Okay, that is so.
Speaker 1: It was only a short while later that authorities managed
Speaker 1: to track the man down near a McDonald's and pulled
Speaker 1: him over and arrested him for robbing the bank. This
Speaker 1: is where things took an unexpected turn. The manning question
Speaker 1: was forty six year old Brian Wells, and according to
Speaker 1: friends and family, Brian Douglas Wells was a man with
Speaker 1: just like anyone else, just a normal guy. He was
Speaker 1: a forty six year old pizza delivery man who lived
Speaker 1: alone in his apartment with his three cats. He was
Speaker 1: known to be a fantastic employee where he worked. He
Speaker 1: never phoned in sick and had only ever called in
Speaker 1: to work late once in ten years. Wow, and he
Speaker 1: did this because his cat had died. His cat had died.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, that's actually incredibly impressive. I don't think
Speaker 2: anyone else in the whole world would have that kind
Speaker 2: of track, I don't think, So that's amazing.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Brian also loved puzzles. He waited anxiously every year
Speaker 1: for a local scavenger hunt contest, one that would have
Speaker 1: people searching the city for hidden keys, and clues that
Speaker 1: would eventually lead to opening a box at the end
Speaker 1: of the scavenger hunt that would have a cash prize
Speaker 1: of twenty five hundred dollars.
Speaker 2: My gosh, Okay, this guy sounds as peer as they come.
Speaker 1: He's not as, he's not pure, let's put it that way.
Speaker 1: He did have himself involved with some sex workers, so
Speaker 1: I wouldn't say pure.
Speaker 2: Oh, he was a very good.
Speaker 1: Guy, though, let's put it that way. Okay, pure might
Speaker 1: not be the proper word.
Speaker 2: Okay, Well, the last few lines of description made him
Speaker 2: say peer. But he did also just like rop a
Speaker 2: bank kind of.
Speaker 1: Maybe he was a normal guy. He was a good guy, Okay.
Speaker 1: Now people knew him and locals would see him out
Speaker 1: and about, grabbing his breakfast in the morning before heading
Speaker 1: out to work. Now, on this day, while Brian was
Speaker 1: at work, his shift was coming to an end. When
Speaker 1: the pizza shop got an order for two pepperoni pizzas
Speaker 1: around noon. It was to be delivered to the end
Speaker 1: of Peach Street. Brian offered to make the delivery. His
Speaker 1: shift was about to end and this would be the
Speaker 1: last delivery for him for the day. But once Brian
Speaker 1: made the delivery, This is when things took a turn
Speaker 1: even worse. This is when Brian was next scene a
Speaker 1: little while later, entering the bank with the bomb. Now,
Speaker 1: according to Brian, when he delivered the pizzas at the
Speaker 1: address down the dead end dirt road, there was a
Speaker 1: TV transmission station right around there. It's kind of like
Speaker 1: not really a home address.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 1: Now, when he arrived there to deliver the pizza, there
Speaker 1: were three men waiting for him. He got out of
Speaker 1: the car to hand over the pizzas and was then
Speaker 1: that these three men, these three black men, held them
Speaker 1: up at gunpoint.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: He tried to run, but they fired warning shots and
Speaker 1: prevented his escape, and they forcefully attached the bomb.
Speaker 2: Shit, holy, holy crap. That's terrifying. Yeah, there are some
Speaker 2: jobs that I think actually are more risky than others,
Speaker 2: and like delivery kind of seems like it could be sketchy.
Speaker 1: I do think delivery is kind of a dangerous fucking
Speaker 1: job because you don't know the individuals you're marking into.
Speaker 2: Not at all delivery. And I think we've mentioned it before,
Speaker 2: like realtor I think is real sketch too.
Speaker 1: Realtor is real sketch.
Speaker 2: Mm hmm. Yeah, like you're literally just going into houses
Speaker 2: and like closing the door and you have no idea
Speaker 2: with who.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you don't have to do a background check on
Speaker 1: these people and you're just in their fucking home. Yes,
Speaker 1: it's like cool, this sounds like fun.
Speaker 2: M m.
Speaker 1: This is how I'm going to become an episode on
Speaker 1: Wicked and Grim today.
Speaker 2: It's like, yeah, no, thanks, yeah, but I mean, honestly,
Speaker 2: every job could have some situations that could turn bad. Really, so.
Speaker 1: He had this bomb fortuately put around his neck. Okay,
Speaker 1: they then armed the bomb, handed him a list of
Speaker 1: instructions and it said if Brian, and they said if
Speaker 1: Brian wanted to get out of the bomb, he'd have
Speaker 1: to follow the instructions, which would lead him across town
Speaker 1: in a series of locations, a job that almost seemed
Speaker 1: tailor made for Brian.
Speaker 2: Exactly. I already have a question. I don't know if
Speaker 2: I'm allowed to ask it.
Speaker 1: What's up?
Speaker 2: My beginning to ahead of myself. But he was like,
Speaker 2: I remember a descriptive word you use while he was
Speaker 2: in the bank, and he was very like calm and chill. Yes,
Speaker 2: that to me is surprising.
Speaker 1: Yes, okay, yes, okay, yes, yes, yes, one hundred percent.
Speaker 1: So Brian explained to the officers this encounter with three
Speaker 1: men who forced him into this contraption with a bomb
Speaker 1: and gave him these set of instructions that he had
Speaker 1: to follow and complete or the bomb would explode. The
Speaker 1: bomb was a serious issue. So at this time, officers
Speaker 1: had him out of his vehicle, they had him in handcuffs,
Speaker 1: and they had him sitting on the concrete in front
Speaker 1: of a vehicle. He's in a public road, so they
Speaker 1: had to take this bomb quite seriously. But absolutely they
Speaker 1: needed to professional They needed to have professionals come in
Speaker 1: to deal with it.
Speaker 2: Though.
Speaker 1: They had no other option but to have him sit
Speaker 1: there and pavement and wait for the.
Speaker 2: Bomb squad wait it out. Oh my goodness, and I'm
Speaker 2: sure he just chills a cucumber at that moment. Too.
Speaker 1: Well, they couldn't. First of all, they couldn't risk anyone's safety.
Speaker 1: They couldn't have anyone transporting his potential bomb. They couldn't
Speaker 1: even be anywhere near it. Right, So Brian was, like
Speaker 1: I said, handcoff, put there and waiting for the bomb
Speaker 1: squad to right. And Brian's previous calm demeanor was still lingering.
Speaker 1: But it was kind of growing a little bit more
Speaker 1: anxious as time went on.
Speaker 2: Well, because too, if he's caught and he's sitting there,
Speaker 2: then he's probably not following the directions of the list
Speaker 2: that they gave him, right, yes, now.
Speaker 1: At one point he even shouted out, and this is recorded,
Speaker 1: by the way, because there were camera crews on the scene.
Speaker 1: Local news showed up pretty quick. Jeez, he shouted out,
Speaker 1: why isn't anyone trying to get this thing off me?
Speaker 1: And it wasn't long after that that you could start
Speaker 1: to hear a beeping sound. Oh my gosh, and that
Speaker 1: beeping quickly began to pick up. Fate pick up. Its
Speaker 1: pace started beating faster and faster and faster, and civilians
Speaker 1: were looking on in the situation. News stations had their
Speaker 1: cameras locked on Brian as he sat helpless on the street.
Speaker 1: Police stood back, securing the area, and in a single instant,
Speaker 1: all the built up tension and pressure off, a loud
Speaker 1: boomed in the streets. Shit now, thankfully, thankfully this well,
Speaker 1: I'll say this first before I say the thankfully part.
Speaker 1: As the boom went off, Brian flopped backwards onto the pavement, lifeless.
Speaker 1: It was only about three minutes after the explosion that
Speaker 1: the bomb squad arrived on scene.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1: So the thankfully part I was going to say is
Speaker 1: the camera crews did not capture on live TV.
Speaker 2: That would be very good. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I didn't look into exactly the malfunction. I'm just going
Speaker 1: to leave it at that, but apparently there was some
Speaker 1: sort of malfunction with the technical difficulties or something. Cameras
Speaker 1: were not on him at that.
Speaker 2: Moment, because at first I was like, did he live? Like,
Speaker 2: what do you mean? But there's no way, no, he
Speaker 2: did not. There's no way no.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So a very short while after the bomb went off.
Speaker 1: It while it quite literally blew a hole in the
Speaker 1: side of his neck and face and leaving him to
Speaker 1: die nearly instantly, he basically only had enough time to
Speaker 1: take like one last labored breath and bleed out.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1: Is it is easy to understand that only two hours
Speaker 1: later that this man who had a bomb strapped to
Speaker 1: him and robbing a bank would be surrounded by officers
Speaker 1: waiting for bomb squad to arrive. It's kind of understandable
Speaker 1: that someone who did these sort of things would be
Speaker 1: in this sort of situation.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, absolutely, but.
Speaker 1: The events that got him to be in this situation
Speaker 1: and were baffling to say the least. Who were these
Speaker 1: men that sent him on this wild goose chase? And
Speaker 1: who else was involved in the notes that Brian claimed
Speaker 1: to be in possession of, who strapped the bomb to
Speaker 1: his neck, who was he talking about, who did he
Speaker 1: run into on the hair?
Speaker 2: A lot of questions.
Speaker 1: So the bomb squad, once they were ready, they moved
Speaker 1: in on the scene to investigate further regarding the bomb
Speaker 1: and Brian's lifeless body. Now, they were cautious as they
Speaker 1: didn't know if the bomb could go off a second
Speaker 1: time or if there was another one on scene.
Speaker 2: Okay, I never even thought about that, but yeah, they'd
Speaker 2: still have to definitely approach with caution.
Speaker 1: So after searching the car, they had a brief scare
Speaker 1: thinking there was a secondary explosive on site, but it
Speaker 1: turned out to be the homemade shotgun slash cane that
Speaker 1: was used in the robbery that was laying in the
Speaker 1: back seat. Now, along with that, they also found the
Speaker 1: notes with instructions that Brian had mentioned. The notes showed
Speaker 1: to go from location to location and Brian would either
Speaker 1: have to complete a task, solve a riddle, or follow
Speaker 1: the instructions to another location. If he did everything correctly,
Speaker 1: he would eventually have all the combinations he needed to
Speaker 1: unlock the bomb, take it off, and save his life.
Speaker 2: Okay, and so him getting caught by the police prevented
Speaker 2: him from doing this correct ugh.
Speaker 1: The first set of instructions Brian was given was detailed
Speaker 1: a detailed plan on how to rob the bank. They
Speaker 1: also came with a warning. Brian was told that he
Speaker 1: was being watched and if at any point he strayed
Speaker 1: from the path or reached out to the authorities, then
Speaker 1: the people watching him would detonate the explosive. The letter
Speaker 1: also said that if Brian tried to remove the bomb
Speaker 1: without putting in the correct combination, or if the timer
Speaker 1: on the bomb ran out, then the bomb would go
Speaker 1: off and kill him. The bomb was also attached to
Speaker 1: Brian's neck with a metal ring something similar to like
Speaker 1: a large pair of handcuffs, meaning it wasn't just something
Speaker 1: that Brian could cut his way out of.
Speaker 2: H they really secured this Hey oh.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Actually I didn't really talk about the engineering of
Speaker 1: the bomb, but later after investigation on it, there was
Speaker 1: a lot of crazy engineering on this thing. More so
Speaker 1: than just your average pipe bomb, which is relatively easy
Speaker 1: to make. There was quite quite in depth, let's put
Speaker 1: it that way. And there was a lot of red
Speaker 1: herrings in this as well. Basically means there was things
Speaker 1: to distract someone who is going to try and deactivate
Speaker 1: this bomb. So if bomb squad did come in, for example,
Speaker 1: I think there was a ring of liquid that ran
Speaker 1: around the collar of this bomb, a blue liquid.
Speaker 2: That was just nothing, really, yeah, just to throw.
Speaker 1: You off, just to throw you off.
Speaker 2: Holy. So I mean, who would have known? Even if
Speaker 2: they did arrive, it might have taken them some time
Speaker 2: yep to have gotten this off.
Speaker 1: Yep.
Speaker 2: Holy. I have so much going through my brain right now.
Speaker 2: But let's continue now.
Speaker 1: After the bank, Brian followed the instructions and headed to
Speaker 1: a local McDonald's where he was told to look for
Speaker 1: the next set of instructions right in the flowerbed of
Speaker 1: the drive through, and there there would be a rock
Speaker 1: with the next steps. Okay, So he found the rock
Speaker 1: and underneath it wore the instructions. From there he was
Speaker 1: on his way to the next set of instructions, search
Speaker 1: for part of the combination, but it was then the
Speaker 1: police caught up with him. One team of investigators decided
Speaker 1: they would actually follow these instructions, so they kept on
Speaker 1: going and they went to the next step, and sure
Speaker 1: enough there was a cash with some more instructions and
Speaker 1: pieces to the puzzle, and of course more to head
Speaker 1: onto the next location. And when they got to another location,
Speaker 1: within these instructions there was in fact another cash, but
Speaker 1: a cash that was supposed to give Brian his freedom
Speaker 1: from the explosion.
Speaker 2: But it didn't.
Speaker 1: It didn't really the cash was empty.
Speaker 2: Holy oh my goodness. He would have gone all the
Speaker 2: way there and and just nothing in there.
Speaker 1: Well, this means one of two things exactly that one
Speaker 1: that he could have got there and there was nothing
Speaker 1: in there, which means the individuals who strapped this on
Speaker 1: his neck were planning to kill Brian this entire time regardless.
Speaker 1: Or two it could have meant that there were individuals
Speaker 1: watching and it went ahead of the police, removed clues,
Speaker 1: or they didn't plant it because they knew police were
Speaker 1: on their way. Right, Okay, So one of those two situations.
Speaker 2: Well, and I mean it, they would have been getting
Speaker 2: their way late, yes, right then when they seeple would
Speaker 2: have expected that Brian would have correct, so I kind
Speaker 2: of feel like they're probably watching potential.
Speaker 1: Another team of investigators began retracing Brian's steps that day,
Speaker 1: looking for the address on Peach Street where he delivered
Speaker 1: the pizza and hopefully some of the men that Brian
Speaker 1: claimed held him at gunpoint and put the bomb on him.
Speaker 1: But the address on Peach Street only led them to
Speaker 1: more questions. The address didn't actually belong to a home,
Speaker 1: as I mentioned, but this TV kind of transmission station,
Speaker 1: which was in the middle of like the forest, gave
Speaker 1: investigators nothing to work with, nothing to tie to an
Speaker 1: actual location. Didn't give them a lead on any sort
Speaker 1: of group of men either. It was just a cold trail.
Speaker 2: Hmm. That's such a random I mean, gosh, I feel
Speaker 2: like if you were delivering pizza, it'd almost be like, good,
Speaker 2: I don't know if I want to go there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, fair enough, But Brian willingly volunteered to go
Speaker 1: on this one too.
Speaker 2: That's true, but he kind of seemed like he was
Speaker 2: that way.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So, now, amazingly this case went cold, with the
Speaker 1: only witness who could tell the investigators anything substantial also
Speaker 1: being the deceased victim. Right, but the authorities were desperate
Speaker 1: to solve this case, and they jumped at the chance
Speaker 1: to do whatever they could to answer anything, and answers
Speaker 1: started popping up in the most unlikely places, starting with
Speaker 1: a man named William Rostein, who would make a call
Speaker 1: to the police to talk about a house on Peach Street,
Speaker 1: just about a mile away from that transmission site that
Speaker 1: Brian was led to just about a month before the call.
Speaker 1: William was a high school mechanics teacher who was also
Speaker 1: an engineer and spoke multiple languages, and the tip he
Speaker 1: gave authorities had everything to do with the homicide, just
Speaker 1: not Brian's homicide.
Speaker 2: Another homicide on Peach Street.
Speaker 1: Well, according to William, authorities, if they take a look,
Speaker 1: they would find a body in a freezer in the
Speaker 1: basement of the address on Peach Street. And he knew
Speaker 1: that because it was his house, his freezer.
Speaker 2: Okay. See that's why I'm like, what is this guy doing,
Speaker 2: because he's like making himself look like he's up to
Speaker 2: no good here.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but he was adamant that he had nothing to
Speaker 1: do with killing said.
Speaker 2: Victim in the It's just in his fucking freezer.
Speaker 1: Basically, he was calling to report the dead body in
Speaker 1: his own freezer.
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah that makes sense.
Speaker 1: Yeah, just your your average police report. Yeah, nothing, nothing weird.
Speaker 2: Or I have a dead body my freezer that's been
Speaker 2: there for I don't know how long, and I didn't
Speaker 2: do it, but it's there.
Speaker 1: Oops. I tripped.
Speaker 2: Wow. Yeah to get that call, i'd be like, uh
Speaker 2: is your name Casey?
Speaker 1: Oh shit? Wow?
Speaker 2: Am I allowed to say that? Wow?
Speaker 1: Just wow?
Speaker 2: Okay, moving on, Hey, I don't I just got to
Speaker 2: defend myself. She is a liar. We everyone knows she's lies.
Speaker 2: I didn't just make that ship.
Speaker 1: Up, does she though?
Speaker 2: Yeah, she was a chronic liar.
Speaker 1: Everyone knows that, You're right.
Speaker 2: I'm just defending myself.
Speaker 1: So well. The new documentary Casey Anthony, Where the Truth Lies,
Speaker 1: the Truth. Casey's trying to be telling her truth and
Speaker 1: it says it right in the title, Where the Truth Lies.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just need to defend myself. I don't need
Speaker 2: no hate mail.
Speaker 1: No, we don't like Casey, that's for sure. Anyway. Moving on,
Speaker 1: William said that the body was in his freezer because
Speaker 1: he was only helping his ex fiance Marjorie dial Armstrong.
Speaker 1: She was helping her out after she killed her then boyfriend,
Speaker 1: good God, James Rodent, and needed a place to store
Speaker 1: his body.
Speaker 2: Huh, that doesn't make any sense to me.
Speaker 1: Well, William had agreed to let her use his freezer
Speaker 1: for the price of seventy thousand dollars.
Speaker 2: Oh, okay, that makes more sense, yep.
Speaker 1: But he had drawn the line when Marjorie had asked
Speaker 1: him to put James's body in an ice grinder. That's
Speaker 1: when he decided to call the police.
Speaker 2: Oh gosh.
Speaker 1: So the police arrested Marjorie right after this tip, and
Speaker 1: William went on to tell the authorities that he's been
Speaker 1: feeling incredibly guilty for his part in covering up James's
Speaker 1: murder and had even at one point been thinking about
Speaker 1: committing suicide.
Speaker 2: I mean, that's a lot like it is. He could
Speaker 2: go to jail for that, easy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, an accessory to murder, right. Yeah. Investigators searched his property,
Speaker 1: finding James and the freezer just as he was described. However,
Speaker 1: they also found William's suicide note that he wrote during
Speaker 1: that period when he was thinking of taking his own life. Okay,
Speaker 1: but what really grabbed their attention, aside from the frozen body,
Speaker 1: of course, was that the opening line of his suicide
Speaker 1: note read this has nothing to do with the Wells
Speaker 1: case aka Brian Wells.
Speaker 2: Should have shredded that note buddy. Yeah, that's pretty incriminating
Speaker 2: right there, it is.
Speaker 1: Why would you just like, there's no lines drawing between
Speaker 1: these two.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no one would think that there ever had anything
Speaker 2: to do with each other.
Speaker 1: The only line that police could draw is Peach Street
Speaker 1: the proximity sough. Yeah, it's kind of a line that
Speaker 1: started growing more interesting when all the coincidences really started
Speaker 1: piling up, and the more they looked into it.
Speaker 2: This Peach Street's up to no good.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not very Peachy's put that way.
Speaker 2: Oh, that was a bad time. You can drink of water,
Speaker 2: not at all.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So Brian had been called to an address on
Speaker 1: Peach Street where he was allegedly fitted with a bomb,
Speaker 1: just like we had discussed. Over a month later, a
Speaker 1: man had been discovered in a suicide suicidal mechanics house
Speaker 1: on Peach Street who had claimed that he had nothing
Speaker 1: to do with Brian's case. It just doesn't seem to fit, Like,
Speaker 1: what's going on? This is a little too coincidental. Now,
Speaker 1: perhaps William had a lot more to do with this coincidence.
Speaker 2: Oh, because I just did a light bomb go on?
Speaker 1: What's that?
Speaker 2: Well, because this guy was like an engineer kind of person, right,
Speaker 2: Oh that's right, Yeah, I just did the light bulb
Speaker 2: go off. Here.
Speaker 1: He was a mechanic and an engineer who could speak
Speaker 1: multiple languages with the now and the tools at home
Speaker 1: to maybe, I don't know, create a bomb like the
Speaker 1: one Brian was wearing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like he's smart dude, I'm assuming, and that bomb
Speaker 2: seemed like it was thought through and made in a
Speaker 2: way that would throw people off and such.
Speaker 1: Right, Yes, he's a very smart dude, and it would
Speaker 1: take a very smart dude to make said bomb.
Speaker 2: Thank God, you're looking at me right now.
Speaker 1: I'm proud of you for thinking of that. You caught
Speaker 1: on like perfectly.
Speaker 2: Did you see my light bomb?
Speaker 1: They did?
Speaker 2: It was it was a pretty big dang right there.
Speaker 1: It's funny because where I'm sitting right now, there's actually
Speaker 1: a light bulb sitting over your head. So it works out.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 1: The question is, though, what about Marjorie? If she could
Speaker 1: just get William to hide James's body, would be much
Speaker 1: of a stretch to think that she could ask him
Speaker 1: to build a bomb too.
Speaker 2: Oh, like she's the one behind this. Maybe, yeah, but
Speaker 2: how stupid you have to be? Like, why is he
Speaker 2: helping his ax so much? I mean the seventy g's
Speaker 2: I guess you mentioned. Yeah, but he's a smart duty
Speaker 2: you're making us own money.
Speaker 1: True. Now, As for Marjorie, she lived in Squalor, and
Speaker 1: she had a long history of mental illness, including bipolar disorder.
Speaker 1: Not to mention, James wasn't the first boyfriend she'd actually
Speaker 1: gotten rid of in a hurry either.
Speaker 2: Oh.
Speaker 1: She'd actually shot and killed one of her previous boyfriends,
Speaker 1: but he claimed to be the victim of domestic violence
Speaker 1: and wasn't charged with anything. She was actually acquitted of
Speaker 1: murder after her boyfriend was found laying on the couch
Speaker 1: shot six times.
Speaker 2: Wow. Okay, that does not seem like something you get
Speaker 2: away with.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I understand if it isn't self defense.
Speaker 1: I totally get that. I'm not gonna sit here and
Speaker 1: argue that you shouldn't defend yourself.
Speaker 2: Oh no, but I mean someone just laying on the
Speaker 2: couch shot six that many times? Shot?
Speaker 1: Yeah, a little suspicious. Now, Her husband and several other
Speaker 1: people in her social circle also died under suspicious circumstances,
Speaker 1: but Marjorie somehow managed to keep ahead of authorities and
Speaker 1: get away with people dropping dead around her like flies.
Speaker 1: That is, of course, until William made this call to authorities.
Speaker 1: But even if Marjorie was a serial killer, why would
Speaker 1: she want to kill Brian And what was her motive
Speaker 1: to rob a bank? Well, Marjorie's father had quite a
Speaker 1: bit of money, and Marjorie was planning on of course,
Speaker 1: inheriting it, right, but she couldn't do that if her
Speaker 1: father had blown all his money on his own.
Speaker 2: Though before he died, is that what he was doing?
Speaker 1: Well, Marjorie's a sure seemed to think it was going
Speaker 1: to happen. Marjorie went back to her tried and true
Speaker 1: solution and planned to kill her father.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, this woman seems horrid.
Speaker 1: She's not pleasant. Let's put it out yeah now, to
Speaker 1: do this, she didn't want to be caught up in
Speaker 1: any sort of investigation this time. She's had some close
Speaker 1: calls in the past, right, so she wants to get
Speaker 1: away scott free. So she wanted to make sure that
Speaker 1: this death wouldn't be traced back to her. This ties
Speaker 1: into Brian Wells's death because a few months after his death,
Speaker 1: a man named Kenneth would become connected in all this
Speaker 1: and provide vital information. Now, Kenneth Barnes comes into the
Speaker 1: picture as he was turned into authorities by his brother
Speaker 1: in law for bragging about being a part of the heist.
Speaker 1: When brought in for questioning, he admitted that Marjorie had
Speaker 1: asked him to kill her father, but she hadn't been
Speaker 1: able to pay him to do the job, so not
Speaker 1: wanting to do it for free. Of course, you don't
Speaker 1: want to work for free, right, Kenneth refused to do
Speaker 1: the job, and Marjorie had to find a way to
Speaker 1: come up with the fee. Suddenly, Marjorie had more than
Speaker 1: enough motive for needing to get her hands on some
Speaker 1: money quickly, and she was what tied these two men together,
Speaker 1: excluding her dead boyfriend with the freezer.
Speaker 2: Of course, my gosh. Okay, so Kenneth is in jail.
Speaker 1: Kenneth came forward saying he was.
Speaker 2: A part, right, he was ragging about it to someone.
Speaker 1: Yes, okay, now he was involved, and he said that
Speaker 1: Marjorie wanted him to murder her father.
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, it's all making sense. Yes, sorry, it's a
Speaker 2: lot there. It's kind of was a lot of process.
Speaker 1: There is a lot of process in this case. And
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be honest right now, I have skipped some
Speaker 1: information already.
Speaker 2: Holy really, if you.
Speaker 1: I'll tell you exactly where you can go get all
Speaker 1: the deeds. It's a bit of a deep dive, but
Speaker 1: I'll tell you that at the end of this episode,
Speaker 1: because it's.
Speaker 2: Almost like, how on earth could you have skip shit
Speaker 2: like this is.
Speaker 1: There's a lot a lot here. There is so much
Speaker 1: to this case. It's wild. But anyways, Yeah, so Marjorie
Speaker 1: needs money to pay Kenneth.
Speaker 2: To do the job right, to kill her dad.
Speaker 1: And how much do you think she needed to pay him?
Speaker 2: Well, at least two hundred and fifty two.
Speaker 1: And fifty grand, yeah, yeah, exactly. So how much were
Speaker 1: we robbing? Oh, write, two hundred and fifty grand from
Speaker 1: the bank?
Speaker 2: They should have got a little bit more, like just
Speaker 2: in case you know, you needed something else something went wrong.
Speaker 1: Come on, they didn't even get eight grand.
Speaker 2: So yeah.
Speaker 1: Now police began to wonder about James in the freezer
Speaker 1: and why Marjorie killed him in the first place. They
Speaker 1: wondered if she killed him, was it because he'd been
Speaker 1: on the heist too. What if he had possibly wanted
Speaker 1: out of the deal when he realized how serious it
Speaker 1: was getting. Maybe he was just in it for some
Speaker 1: money and didn't realize they planned on strapping I don't know,
Speaker 1: a live bomb to a man and killing someone.
Speaker 2: That would make shit get real real quick.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, for sure. What if someone is just sitting
Speaker 1: here thinking, oh, I can make a quick couple extra bucks,
Speaker 1: rob a bank, no harm, no foul, and you realize
Speaker 1: you're basically involved in a murder plot.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that you're now a murderer.
Speaker 1: Yeah. That takes things from zero to sixty real fucking quick,
Speaker 1: real quick, and that turns you from just like a
Speaker 1: bank robber to a fucking douche canoe real quick like.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, So then he wanted out, but he knew
Speaker 2: too much, so she murdered him.
Speaker 1: That's what the police were thinking.
Speaker 2: Makes sense.
Speaker 1: Now. They also thought what if there was something else
Speaker 1: going on? According to another witness, Kenneth Barnes and Brian
Speaker 1: Wells knew each other quite well, and there were witnesses
Speaker 1: at the bank that claimed Brian had been incredibly calm
Speaker 1: for a man with a bomb attached to his chest.
Speaker 2: Yeah, which I thought was odd too.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, chilling out with a lollipop.
Speaker 2: Just yeah, you were surprised with this bomb, Like, there's
Speaker 2: no way that you would be I mean, you might
Speaker 2: have to kind of fake it a little bit, but
Speaker 2: it would be seen, it would be noticeable that you
Speaker 2: were uncomfortable. Ye.
Speaker 1: Now, even as a bomb ticked down the minutes, the
Speaker 1: seconds as he sat in the middle of the street,
Speaker 1: that beeping, Yeah, he never really got very agitated, only
Speaker 1: like kind of anxious nervous, right, Yeah, But I mean
Speaker 1: he is in front of police, surrounded by them, right,
Speaker 1: and probably make anyone nervous regardless. So I think anyone
Speaker 1: in their last absolute minutes, knowing or at least convinced
Speaker 1: they're going to die, is probably going to be a
Speaker 1: little more panicked. But he didn't really seem to.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, would anyone in that situation know that
Speaker 2: they were that what the beeping meant necessarily?
Speaker 1: Well, what if you're sitting there with a bomb strapped
Speaker 1: to your chest and you have notes that says you're
Speaker 1: going to die unless you complete these things.
Speaker 2: On a schedule, and you're not doing that.
Speaker 1: And then it begins beeping.
Speaker 2: And then beeping faster. Yeah, I would.
Speaker 1: Shit, I think you'd put two and two together.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yep, no, I really would.
Speaker 1: What if you're in that situation and you thought the
Speaker 1: bomb was fake?
Speaker 2: Oh oh no, oh no? What like Brian thought that
Speaker 2: it wasn't a real bomb.
Speaker 1: What if that's what he thought?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 1: Man, what if Brian was just that easy going because
Speaker 1: he'd actually been on the whole heist himself as well,
Speaker 1: Maybe he didn't realize his life was actually on the
Speaker 1: line because the plan was to fix him with a
Speaker 1: fake bomb.
Speaker 2: Wow, you got me there. That's gut wrenching really.
Speaker 1: So what if James figured out that they actually planned
Speaker 1: on strapping a real bomb to Brian without him knowing?
Speaker 2: But why would they.
Speaker 1: For real effect, to really cover their tracks, to ensure
Speaker 1: that there actually is a victim, to get rid of evidence,
Speaker 1: to tie up loose ends. And what if James figured
Speaker 1: this out or learned of this and couldn't have this
Speaker 1: happen and he was going to tell Brian and James
Speaker 1: was killed for it.
Speaker 2: So then there's two victims in this.
Speaker 1: So then there could be two yep. Now, witnesses saw
Speaker 1: Brian coming in and out of William's house several times
Speaker 1: in the weeks leading up to the robbery, including the
Speaker 1: day before. Brian's family is very adamant that he'd have
Speaker 1: nothing to do with this and that he'd be telling
Speaker 1: the truth when he said that he'd been forced to
Speaker 1: wear a bomb and rob a bank. Law enforcement, however, disagrees,
Speaker 1: though they say that there are several witness reports that
Speaker 1: claim that Brian had discussed parts of the plot a
Speaker 1: month before. Even and Marjorie later claimed that he had
Speaker 1: actually been a part of it as well.
Speaker 2: Hmm. I mean people can surprise you. They can family
Speaker 2: lots of times they have no idea, Yeah, no idea.
Speaker 2: You may think someone is one way or you have
Speaker 2: it in their head that this is how they've always been.
Speaker 2: But people can change and get into sticky situations sometimes.
Speaker 1: And it seems to fit just a little too perfect.
Speaker 2: It kind of very because like, yeah, how Even said
Speaker 2: he was pretty much off work. I mean he did
Speaker 2: seem like he was slightly go good or maybe, but
Speaker 2: that he volunteered to go out there because it was
Speaker 2: like all part of the plan, you know, like and
Speaker 2: they did this right when he was about to get
Speaker 2: to work or get off work.
Speaker 1: And now an important thing I do want to discuss
Speaker 1: is in his autopsy there was Well I should mention
Speaker 1: this first. There's a very unfortunate thing with with his
Speaker 1: autopsy that occurred with the bomb that blew up on
Speaker 1: his chest. The caller was still intact around his neck.
Speaker 1: So they couldn't remove the caller without tampering with evidence
Speaker 1: because they wanted to investigate it and like really get
Speaker 1: down to the details of this bomb, right, So they
Speaker 1: couldn't remove the caller without ruining evidence. So to get
Speaker 1: it off Brian, they actually had to remove his head
Speaker 1: in the autopsy.
Speaker 2: Okay, that's what I thought was You were going to say,
Speaker 2: is very unfortunate, which is very distressing, very controversial that
Speaker 2: that occurred. Well, yeah, I can see that, but also
Speaker 2: it's like they have to figure this out. Yeah, in
Speaker 2: a way, but I get it to be another way
Speaker 2: to get it off.
Speaker 1: Well, the way I look at it is an autopsy,
Speaker 1: like they cut you wide open. There's the whole autopsy,
Speaker 1: like the why incision on your chest? We're fine with that, right,
Speaker 1: So I don't understand. I mean, I do understand, but
Speaker 1: I don't. At the same time, it's like to get
Speaker 1: the job done. I don't see why that can't be
Speaker 1: done as well. But I also have the respect for him,
Speaker 1: and I get it, like, I see both sides.
Speaker 2: I can see both sides. Yes, I mean we're more
Speaker 2: familiar with that. We know about the cut on the chest,
Speaker 2: and that's just everyone knows it's happened. So the removing
Speaker 2: head is a little bit more. It's not common, right
Speaker 2: at all.
Speaker 1: Exactly, but yeah, so that occurred. But in his autopsy
Speaker 1: they found zero defensive wounds to show that he was
Speaker 1: in any sort of a struggle that he described when
Speaker 1: they strap this collar to him, not in his hands,
Speaker 1: not in his neck, elbow's, knees, being pinned to the ground, nothing.
Speaker 2: And if you're getting a bomb strapped to you would
Speaker 2: definitely be in the defense, that's for sure, if you
Speaker 2: weren't tying on it.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Now, arguably he was a gunpoint too, So okay,
Speaker 1: maybe he just hands up and just let it happen.
Speaker 1: That is a possibility, but it is worth noting there
Speaker 1: were no defensive wounds found in his autopsy. Now, as
Speaker 1: for hold on, where am I here? Okay? As for
Speaker 1: the others, Kenneth claimed that Marjorie was the one behind
Speaker 1: it all and she was certainly the one who connected
Speaker 1: all of the men, which is as far as facts
Speaker 1: and all that goes aside from Brian can't prove any
Speaker 1: of that. Unfortunately, with him being passed away, he can't
Speaker 1: really say.
Speaker 2: Much, not at all.
Speaker 1: But Marjorie claimed that William was the mastermind, apparently he
Speaker 1: was one behind the whole thing, and that her only
Speaker 1: part had apparently been to supply kitchen timers that.
Speaker 2: Went unto the boll Oh my gosh, she's making herself
Speaker 2: sounds like an innocent page.
Speaker 1: Just not, She's definitely not. William only ever admitted to
Speaker 1: helping Marjorie hide James's body, and that he had actually
Speaker 1: and he had actually later died of cancer before investigators
Speaker 1: could get anything else out of him as well, which
Speaker 1: really very unfortunate. That is, at this time, I believe
Speaker 1: he was terminal during this investigation. So okay, So both
Speaker 1: Marjorie and Kenneth were charged and sentenced as co conspirators
Speaker 1: in the whole scheme, with Kenneth receiving a little bit
Speaker 1: of a lesser sentence. I believe Marjorie was around forty
Speaker 1: years and he was twenty two and a half years,
Speaker 1: and he received the lesser sentence for testifying against Marjorie.
Speaker 2: I just have to point out too, with Kenneth having
Speaker 2: the terminal illness, yes, it would make sense that whatever
Speaker 2: he was saying was right because at that what point,
Speaker 2: I mean, well.
Speaker 1: I guess it's his name necessarily.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's his name. Still, I was like, what does
Speaker 2: he have to hide? Like? But yeah, no.
Speaker 1: So there's a documentary out there that covers this case
Speaker 1: and they connect it to the Saw movie, the one
Speaker 1: that I talked about at the beginning, and this documentary. Now,
Speaker 1: mind you, this is their perspective. This is the way
Speaker 1: they paint it. This is their reenactment. This is not
Speaker 1: how it really played out. This is just their thought process.
Speaker 1: They think of it as very much so him being
Speaker 1: like Jigsaw. Now, Jigsaw is the main antagonist in Saw.
Speaker 1: He's the one who captures people, puts him into these
Speaker 1: devices and they have to fight for their life to escape,
Speaker 1: often giving up limbs and cutting off their own leg
Speaker 1: to escape from shackles and stuff sort of thing. Now,
Speaker 1: Jigsaw is terminal in the movies. He's going to die anyways.
Speaker 1: So he is taking people out of these situations who
Speaker 1: are taking life for granted and putting them in these
Speaker 1: tough situations too, essentially repent for their past history and
Speaker 1: where they're living, them where they've been living, and then
Speaker 1: so when they do get out, maybe minus the leg
Speaker 1: or something, now they will have a newfound respect for
Speaker 1: the life that they have. Whereas Jigsaw, he's limited, He's
Speaker 1: going to be dying soon, right, So his perspective is also,
Speaker 1: I don't care if please catch me. Everything dies with me,
Speaker 1: And they say in this documentary they painted as him
Speaker 1: saying this, the truth dies with me, Like he's laughing
Speaker 1: in the face of the cops, like you're not going
Speaker 1: to figure it out anyways, because I'm the mastermind pulling
Speaker 1: all the strings and you're not going to get to
Speaker 1: learned shit because I'm dead.
Speaker 2: Oh my god.
Speaker 1: So that's a perspective this documentary talks about, huhm, which
Speaker 1: is very possible.
Speaker 2: Well yeah, I mean, like he could still be hiding
Speaker 2: it in a sense too, because like I said, it's
Speaker 2: his name. He doesn't want like this on his name,
Speaker 2: Like he wants to die like being known kind of
Speaker 2: like I'm a good person.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And there's so many murderers out there who don't
Speaker 1: like to give all the information they like to hold
Speaker 1: that power even when they die. They like to die
Speaker 1: knowing that they held that power.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's not the first time we've heard of this.
Speaker 1: Now, all this being said, even though there are two
Speaker 1: individuals behind bars being co conspirators in this, no one
Speaker 1: actually knows who orchestrated the events. Law enforcement believed that
Speaker 1: Marjorie was the actual mastermind behind all of it, and
Speaker 1: cite her many mental health issues as leading to the
Speaker 1: overly elaborate scheme.
Speaker 2: Well, she had that motive too, she did, But was she.
Speaker 1: Really the one to construct it? Was she the one
Speaker 1: to really put this plan together? Was it really her?
Speaker 1: Authorities believe so, but there's no proof to say she
Speaker 1: was the one who putting it all on the puppet master,
Speaker 1: if you will. Authorities also officially announced that the then
Speaker 1: deceased William Rothstein Sorry and Brian Wells had both been
Speaker 1: involved in the case, and that they were named as
Speaker 1: co conspirators, somehow leaving Brian Wells's legacy to the man
Speaker 1: who pulled off the one of the most dangerous bank
Speaker 1: robberies of all time, being one of the strangest homicide
Speaker 1: victims to this day, so he has officially, according to
Speaker 1: authorities been named a co conspirator as well.
Speaker 2: Okay, I was like, not, I don't know. This is
Speaker 2: a weird one.
Speaker 1: Hey it is. And there is a Netflix documentary on this.
Speaker 1: They came out in twenty eighteen. It's called Evil Genius.
Speaker 2: Okay, I don't have heard of that.
Speaker 1: It's got some more information on this case. For example,
Speaker 1: I did mention that Brian Wells was involved with sex workers.
Speaker 1: There is I believe it was a sex worker that
Speaker 1: came forward. She came forward, and she was actually the
Speaker 1: one who kind of she claims she got Brian involved
Speaker 1: as the target of this, though she's not a very
Speaker 1: good she's not a very reliable source of information. Though
Speaker 1: I believe this the way they were'd it okay, but
Speaker 1: she forward saying she feels bad, but she's the one
Speaker 1: who kind of put him up for the role because
Speaker 1: he's kind of a pushover type guy and yeah, he'd
Speaker 1: be good to do.
Speaker 2: It, and then he agreed. Probably I'm assuming from the
Speaker 2: money as well, but that doesn't even make sense. Everything
Speaker 2: so okay with just leaving after only getting like eight grand.
Speaker 1: Too, So everything about Brian being involved is pure speculation. However,
Speaker 1: authorities have named it official. He is an official co conspirator,
Speaker 1: but there is no evidence to point motive or nothing
Speaker 1: along those lines.
Speaker 2: This one's got me here.
Speaker 1: This one is a big, old tangled web of what
Speaker 1: the fuck is going on?
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I just had one another question here that
Speaker 2: the Netflix thing. Is it just like a one episode
Speaker 2: or is it a few episodes?
Speaker 1: If I recall correctly, it's a docuseries.
Speaker 2: Okay, well I might have to watch that.
Speaker 1: It is a good watch. There is a lot of
Speaker 1: information on it, and you might want to make sure
Speaker 1: you got a drink or two and some snacks ready
Speaker 1: because it's yeah, it's it's a ride.
Speaker 2: We got some cheesies.
Speaker 1: We got some cheesies. We got some cheesies, we got
Speaker 1: some eggnog, we got some true crime. It's a date.
Speaker 2: There we go.
Speaker 1: Well, thank you for tuning into this episode. Really appreciate
Speaker 1: you guys. If you want to go ahead and take
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Speaker 2: So yeah, so yeah, well done, and until next time,
Speaker 2: stay wicked.