1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:02,960 Speaker 1: Welcome to Thrilling Threads. This is the show where we 2 00:00:03,000 --> 00:00:06,200 take the sources you're curious about, the articles, the videos, 3 00:00:06,280 --> 00:00:09,759 the research, and we really just pull apart the key 4 00:00:09,759 --> 00:00:10,359 threads for you. 5 00:00:10,439 --> 00:00:12,960 Speaker 2: We do. We give you that shortcut to being the 6 00:00:12,960 --> 00:00:16,039 most informed person in the room on some pretty complex topics. 7 00:00:16,239 --> 00:00:21,000 Speaker 1: And today we are embarking on well, a fascinating journey. 8 00:00:21,800 --> 00:00:24,960 It really crosses billions of kilometers. 9 00:00:24,440 --> 00:00:27,719 Speaker 2: It does. It connects this mysterious visitor from deep space 10 00:00:28,239 --> 00:00:31,879 with the very opaque world of government secrecy right here 11 00:00:31,920 --> 00:00:32,399 on earth. 12 00:00:32,479 --> 00:00:35,799 Speaker 1: This is really a story about where cutting edge astrophysics 13 00:00:35,840 --> 00:00:40,600 just runs headlong into skepticism and accusations of a cover up. 14 00:00:40,640 --> 00:00:43,159 Speaker 2: Absolutely, the source material you provided for US centers on 15 00:00:43,240 --> 00:00:46,759 are recent and i'd say highly charged discussion with doctor 16 00:00:46,799 --> 00:00:47,520 Auvi Loob. 17 00:00:47,439 --> 00:00:50,359 Speaker 1: The Harvard astrophysicist. Yeah, this was from an interview on 18 00:00:50,399 --> 00:00:52,320 the Newsmax YouTube channel, right, and. 19 00:00:52,320 --> 00:00:55,399 Speaker 2: It's explosive because doctor Lobe is you know, he's connecting 20 00:00:55,479 --> 00:00:59,600 three very distinct but as you said, suspiciously overlapping threads 21 00:00:59,600 --> 00:00:59,840 of miss. 22 00:01:00,359 --> 00:01:02,920 Speaker 1: Okay, so let's lay them out. What are the three 23 00:01:02,960 --> 00:01:05,280 interlocking phenomena we're pulling apart today? 24 00:01:05,640 --> 00:01:09,599 Speaker 2: First, we have the highly anticipated flyby of a comet 25 00:01:09,799 --> 00:01:14,079 CE twenty twenty three, A three, A potentially spectacular one, 26 00:01:14,120 --> 00:01:17,319 but it also has some really unusual characteristics. 27 00:01:17,359 --> 00:01:19,560 Speaker 1: Okay, that's thread one, the comet. 28 00:01:19,719 --> 00:01:23,599 Speaker 2: Thread two is the sudden loss of a critical NASA spacecraft, 29 00:01:23,959 --> 00:01:27,000 the FN probe, a probe that has been working for 30 00:01:27,040 --> 00:01:29,920 a decade, and it goes silent moments after observing that 31 00:01:30,079 --> 00:01:30,799 very commet a. 32 00:01:30,799 --> 00:01:34,200 Speaker 1: Decade first failure. Right. And the third thread, the. 33 00:01:34,120 --> 00:01:37,079 Speaker 2: Third thread brings it all home. It's the ongoing high 34 00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:41,439 stakes debate over UAP's unidentified aerial phenomena and the huge 35 00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:45,879 tension between scientific curiosity and official disclosure, especially when you. 36 00:01:45,799 --> 00:01:49,519 Speaker 1: Get figures like Elon Musk and the Director of National 37 00:01:49,560 --> 00:01:51,040 Intelligence involved exactly. 38 00:01:51,480 --> 00:01:54,439 Speaker 2: So, our mission here is to unpack the controversial questions 39 00:01:54,439 --> 00:01:57,319 that doctor lowbraises. We're going to take his specific scientific 40 00:01:57,359 --> 00:02:00,400 observations pulled directly from that discussion and put them in 41 00:02:00,439 --> 00:02:01,560 full context for you. 42 00:02:01,560 --> 00:02:03,959 Speaker 1: You want to help you understand why these separate incidents 43 00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:07,760 are fueling such serious concerns about well about information control. 44 00:02:07,799 --> 00:02:09,439 Speaker 2: Okay, let's unpack this before we. 45 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:11,840 Speaker 1: Get into the comments in spacecraft. We really need to 46 00:02:11,919 --> 00:02:16,360 understand our guide here, doctor Avi Lobe. He's not exactly 47 00:02:16,400 --> 00:02:20,000 someone who's accustomed to just going along with the consensus, 48 00:02:20,120 --> 00:02:20,599 not at all. 49 00:02:20,639 --> 00:02:24,199 Speaker 2: He's a prominent Harvard professor Suore, but he's really carved 50 00:02:24,199 --> 00:02:27,199 out this unique identity by being willing to challenge the 51 00:02:27,240 --> 00:02:28,439 scientific establishment. 52 00:02:28,520 --> 00:02:31,479 Speaker 1: The interviewer put it perfectly, he's someone who has determined 53 00:02:32,199 --> 00:02:34,599 not to go quietly into the night right. 54 00:02:34,680 --> 00:02:38,319 Speaker 2: I mean his willingness to entertain hypotheses that others just 55 00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:40,039 dismiss as science fiction. 56 00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:43,120 Speaker 1: Like Umua being an alien solar sale exactly. 57 00:02:43,520 --> 00:02:46,680 Speaker 2: That makes him the ideal lens to view these anomalies through. 58 00:02:47,120 --> 00:02:50,960 His profile adds this massive amount of credibility to the discussion. 59 00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:53,759 Speaker 1: It does because when he suggests that an anomaly might 60 00:02:53,759 --> 00:02:57,719 be technological, it's not based on rumor or blurry photos. 61 00:02:57,719 --> 00:02:59,759 It's based on physics. It's based on observation. 62 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:02,719 Speaker 2: And he's been tracking this commet C twenty twenty three 63 00:03:02,800 --> 00:03:05,719 A three since July, so his analysis is grounded in 64 00:03:05,840 --> 00:03:07,680 months of dedicated data collection. 65 00:03:07,879 --> 00:03:11,080 Speaker 1: So you've got this pairing of real scientific rigor with 66 00:03:11,199 --> 00:03:15,120 a healthy skepticism of institutional secrecy. That's the key. 67 00:03:15,479 --> 00:03:18,439 Speaker 2: He's not just a scientist, he's more of an investigator, 68 00:03:18,800 --> 00:03:22,080 and he forces us all to ask what data is 69 00:03:22,120 --> 00:03:25,319 really being gathered and what motivations might exist for some 70 00:03:25,439 --> 00:03:29,759 agencies to potentially withhold or even suppress what they find. 71 00:03:29,919 --> 00:03:32,560 Speaker 1: That really sets the stage for our first massive thread. 72 00:03:32,639 --> 00:03:37,080 So let's start with the spectacular astronomical event itself, the 73 00:03:37,159 --> 00:03:40,360 Comet of the Century c. Twenty twenty three A three, 74 00:03:40,800 --> 00:03:42,400 also known as at LA's. 75 00:03:42,599 --> 00:03:45,680 Speaker 2: Doctor Loeb's interview was timed so perfectly to draw attention 76 00:03:45,719 --> 00:03:48,000 to this. He noted at the time that the count 77 00:03:48,080 --> 00:03:50,360 was down to just eight days until the comment made 78 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:51,840 its closest passage to Earth. 79 00:03:51,919 --> 00:03:54,520 Speaker 1: Okay, so that puts the prime onservation window right on 80 00:03:54,560 --> 00:03:57,199 December nineteenth. And we need to be clear, this wasn't 81 00:03:57,240 --> 00:03:58,840 just some faint smudge in the sky. 82 00:03:59,080 --> 00:04:00,879 Speaker 2: No, not at all. This it was anticipated to be 83 00:04:00,919 --> 00:04:04,560 a really spectacular viewing opportunity, potentially even a naked eye comet, 84 00:04:04,599 --> 00:04:05,759 which is rare because of. 85 00:04:05,759 --> 00:04:08,599 Speaker 1: Its size and its trajectory. So this meant naturally that 86 00:04:08,680 --> 00:04:12,039 every major observatory on the planet was prioritizing it. They 87 00:04:12,039 --> 00:04:13,919 were all pointing their telescopes at it, and. 88 00:04:13,879 --> 00:04:17,240 Speaker 2: That date, December nineteenth, it offered what doctor Lobe called 89 00:04:17,279 --> 00:04:20,600 a truly fortunate coincidence for all of those observers. 90 00:04:20,680 --> 00:04:22,759 Speaker 1: The alignment was just perfect perfect. 91 00:04:23,079 --> 00:04:25,759 Speaker 2: The comet was at its closest to Earth, but the 92 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:28,040 new moon also happened on that very same night. 93 00:04:28,160 --> 00:04:31,680 Speaker 1: Okay, So help us visualize that. Why is a new 94 00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:36,240 moon so critical for professional astronomers when they're looking at 95 00:04:36,279 --> 00:04:38,959 a faint, distant object like a comet. 96 00:04:39,040 --> 00:04:41,240 Speaker 2: Well, it all comes down to light pollution, but not 97 00:04:41,360 --> 00:04:44,600 the kind from cities. It's from our own moon, right. 98 00:04:44,639 --> 00:04:47,279 A new moon means the mood is basically between the 99 00:04:47,319 --> 00:04:49,240 Earth and the Sun, so we see none of its 100 00:04:49,279 --> 00:04:51,680 illuminated face from our perspective. 101 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:56,000 Speaker 1: The sky is moonless, which means no moonlight washing everything. 102 00:04:55,720 --> 00:04:59,319 Speaker 2: Out exactly, no moonlight contaminating the atmosphere. So if you're 103 00:04:59,319 --> 00:05:01,319 trying to take a picture, sure, or you do a 104 00:05:01,360 --> 00:05:05,199 spectroscopic analysis of a faint comment, you need the absolute 105 00:05:05,360 --> 00:05:07,240 darkest background you can get, so. 106 00:05:07,160 --> 00:05:10,920 Speaker 1: You're getting the purest, cleanest possible view of the comet's tail. 107 00:05:11,079 --> 00:05:14,319 It's coma all of its activity without our bright neighbor 108 00:05:14,319 --> 00:05:14,839 getting in the. 109 00:05:14,759 --> 00:05:17,920 Speaker 2: Way, precisely, and this is where doctor Lobe introduces his 110 00:05:18,040 --> 00:05:22,000 first major check on any kind of government secrecy narrative. 111 00:05:21,959 --> 00:05:24,879 Speaker 1: Because it would be almost impossible to hide anything, right. 112 00:05:25,439 --> 00:05:28,720 Speaker 2: He noted that even if NASA or any single national 113 00:05:28,759 --> 00:05:32,600 agency wanted to say delay or lie about the data, 114 00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:36,600 they couldn't because the observation is, in his words, not 115 00:05:36,839 --> 00:05:37,560 up to NASA. 116 00:05:37,639 --> 00:05:41,120 Speaker 1: It's a distributed scientific effort. We're talking about hundreds of 117 00:05:41,160 --> 00:05:44,480 observatories around the globe, all looking at the same object 118 00:05:44,519 --> 00:05:45,240 at the same time. 119 00:05:45,319 --> 00:05:48,279 Speaker 2: It's not some proprietary deep space probe that only one 120 00:05:48,360 --> 00:05:51,639 country has access to. This is a public celestial event. 121 00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:54,319 Speaker 1: And he specifically mentioned some of the big guns that 122 00:05:54,360 --> 00:05:55,759 would be getting data he did. 123 00:05:55,800 --> 00:05:59,160 Speaker 2: He cited the web telescope and the Hubble Telescope, plus 124 00:05:59,199 --> 00:06:03,399 countless others across dozens of nations. The sheer volume of 125 00:06:03,399 --> 00:06:07,920 instruments and the global networked nature of modern astronomy means 126 00:06:07,920 --> 00:06:10,800 that if something truly anomalous is captured, it's. 127 00:06:10,639 --> 00:06:14,000 Speaker 1: Pretty unlikely that one organization could effectively suppress all of it. 128 00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:16,639 Speaker 2: It would be next to impossible. The data streams serve 129 00:06:16,680 --> 00:06:19,519 as a kind of mutual check against any localized secrecy. 130 00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:21,959 Speaker 1: But the real question here is why is doctor Loebes 131 00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:25,279 so focused on this particular commet what's he hoping to 132 00:06:25,360 --> 00:06:28,079 learn that goes beyond just tracking its orbit. 133 00:06:28,399 --> 00:06:31,120 Speaker 2: It's not just about its path, it's about understanding the 134 00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:34,519 physics of its activity. He's looking for data that can 135 00:06:34,639 --> 00:06:37,160 settle a really profound question. 136 00:06:36,959 --> 00:06:40,720 Speaker 1: Like, yes, is this just a big, normal icy comet? 137 00:06:41,079 --> 00:06:41,720 Speaker 2: Yeah? 138 00:06:41,879 --> 00:06:44,000 Speaker 1: Or is it behaving in a way that suggests something 139 00:06:44,639 --> 00:06:45,360 not natural? 140 00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:49,319 Speaker 2: Exactly? And he specified two crucial pieces of information that 141 00:06:49,360 --> 00:06:50,720 he needs to answer that question. 142 00:06:50,879 --> 00:06:51,439 Speaker 1: What were they? 143 00:06:51,639 --> 00:06:54,040 Speaker 2: First the speed of the gas in the jets that 144 00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:57,560 they're observing around the comet, and second, the actual chemical 145 00:06:57,600 --> 00:06:59,879 composition of those jets, what are they made of? 146 00:07:00,120 --> 00:07:02,120 Speaker 1: And this focus is really driven by the fact that 147 00:07:02,240 --> 00:07:06,399 Common Atlas is showing something very unusual, something that kind 148 00:07:06,439 --> 00:07:08,399 of defies the common model. 149 00:07:08,519 --> 00:07:12,079 Speaker 2: It's presenting an anomalous jet activity. He detailed that one 150 00:07:12,079 --> 00:07:14,920 of the jets of gas and dust is oriented towards 151 00:07:14,959 --> 00:07:15,360 the sun. 152 00:07:15,439 --> 00:07:16,160 Speaker 1: Towards the sun. 153 00:07:16,319 --> 00:07:18,959 Speaker 2: Yeah. He described this as very surprising and said it's 154 00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:20,240 not seen that very often. 155 00:07:20,360 --> 00:07:22,920 Speaker 1: Okay, help us understand that. Why does a sun facing 156 00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:27,680 jet just fundamentally contradict the standard model for how comets work? 157 00:07:27,839 --> 00:07:30,160 Speaker 2: Well, the standard model is all driven by pretty simple 158 00:07:30,199 --> 00:07:34,720 thermodynamics and solar radiation pressure. As the comet gets close 159 00:07:34,759 --> 00:07:38,160 to the Sun, the heat causes ices on its surface, water, 160 00:07:38,279 --> 00:07:41,600 carbon dioxide, stuff like that to sublimate. That means it 161 00:07:41,639 --> 00:07:44,120 turns directly from solid ice into. 162 00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:47,839 Speaker 1: Gas, and that gas blasts off the nucleus, creating the jet. 163 00:07:48,040 --> 00:07:50,879 Speaker 2: Correct But that gas and all the dust it drags 164 00:07:50,879 --> 00:07:53,959 along with it is immediately hit by this immense force 165 00:07:54,040 --> 00:07:57,600 from the Sun, the solar wind and radiation pressure. 166 00:07:57,199 --> 00:08:00,000 Speaker 1: Which means the tail and all that material should always 167 00:08:00,319 --> 00:08:03,079 always be pushed away from the Sun, no matter which 168 00:08:03,120 --> 00:08:04,800 way the comet itself is traveling. 169 00:08:04,920 --> 00:08:07,800 Speaker 2: Always that's the rule. So for a jet to be 170 00:08:07,879 --> 00:08:11,680 oriented towards the Sun, well, the material being ejected must 171 00:08:11,759 --> 00:08:15,399 have such an incredibly high velocity that its own thrust 172 00:08:15,439 --> 00:08:17,879 and momentum can overcome that immense. 173 00:08:17,519 --> 00:08:19,720 Speaker 1: Pressure from the Sun you're talking about fighting as the 174 00:08:19,759 --> 00:08:20,240 solar wind. 175 00:08:20,439 --> 00:08:23,759 Speaker 2: It's essentially trying to fly into a continuous hurricane of 176 00:08:23,879 --> 00:08:26,360 charged particles streaming away from the Sun. It takes an 177 00:08:26,360 --> 00:08:27,399 incredible amount of force. 178 00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:29,839 Speaker 1: So we need that data, the speed and the composition 179 00:08:30,319 --> 00:08:32,639 to figure out where that incredible force is coming from. 180 00:08:32,679 --> 00:08:36,039 Speaker 2: And this brings us right to the binary hypothesis. The 181 00:08:36,120 --> 00:08:38,879 two potential conclusions that doctor Lobe suggested. 182 00:08:39,159 --> 00:08:41,360 Speaker 1: Okay, what's the first one, the natural explanation. 183 00:08:41,639 --> 00:08:44,960 Speaker 2: The first is the standard model explanation. It suggests that 184 00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:49,759 the jets are caused by these highly pressurized pockets of ice, 185 00:08:50,279 --> 00:08:54,200 maybe supervolatiles like frozen nitrogen, buried deep inside the comet. 186 00:08:54,399 --> 00:08:57,159 Speaker 1: So when these pockets finally get exposed to sunlight. 187 00:08:56,840 --> 00:08:59,919 Speaker 2: They sublimate so violently that the force of the ejection 188 00:09:00,360 --> 00:09:05,080 momentarily overcomes the solar pressure, causing this really surprising sun 189 00:09:05,159 --> 00:09:09,080 facing jet. It's possible, but it would have to be 190 00:09:09,120 --> 00:09:10,720 an extremely energetic event. 191 00:09:10,879 --> 00:09:14,360 Speaker 1: Okay, so that's possibility one, and then usually violent natural event. 192 00:09:14,399 --> 00:09:17,879 What's the second conclusion, the one that really gets your attention. 193 00:09:18,080 --> 00:09:20,960 Speaker 2: The second is what he calls the technological model, the 194 00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:24,360 possibility that this anomalous activity comes from something. 195 00:09:24,120 --> 00:09:27,320 Speaker 1: Artificial, specifically technological thrusters. 196 00:09:27,440 --> 00:09:30,480 Speaker 2: Yes, and this is where it gets really interesting, because 197 00:09:30,519 --> 00:09:33,000 if the speed of that ejected material is found to 198 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:36,120 be way too high for any known sublimation rates, or 199 00:09:36,159 --> 00:09:39,480 if the composition of the jet is say metallic, or 200 00:09:39,519 --> 00:09:43,360 involves specific compounds that don't fit with commet geology. 201 00:09:42,919 --> 00:09:45,440 Speaker 1: Then the whole hypothesis has to shift completely. 202 00:09:45,679 --> 00:09:48,639 Speaker 2: Doctor Love is basically asking, is this incredible velocity the 203 00:09:48,679 --> 00:09:52,080 result of some extraordinary natural physics we haven't seen before, 204 00:09:52,600 --> 00:09:55,639 or is it the operation of some kind of propulsion system, And. 205 00:09:55,600 --> 00:09:59,240 Speaker 1: Given his past work on umabua, he's basically demanding that 206 00:09:59,240 --> 00:10:04,120 the scientific rigorously test for that technological possibility instead of 207 00:10:04,159 --> 00:10:06,519 just dismissing it out of hand. When the National explanation 208 00:10:06,559 --> 00:10:08,279 starts to look a little shaky. 209 00:10:08,080 --> 00:10:10,440 Speaker 2: And the data from December nineteenth and the follow up 210 00:10:10,480 --> 00:10:13,919 analysis the speed and the material, that's what holds the 211 00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:15,720 key to ruling one of these options out. 212 00:10:15,799 --> 00:10:20,720 Speaker 1: It's an extraordinary test case. It's conventional physics versus potentially extraordinary, 213 00:10:20,759 --> 00:10:24,679 maybe artificial technology. And it's this very possibility that throws 214 00:10:24,720 --> 00:10:27,519 the fate of our next subject into such sharp relief. 215 00:10:27,720 --> 00:10:30,200 Speaker 2: And now we have to shift from the comets destination 216 00:10:30,399 --> 00:10:32,919 to the asset that was actually monitoring it. We have 217 00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:35,720 to talk about the AVEN spacecraft. 218 00:10:35,240 --> 00:10:39,399 Speaker 1: AVEN, which stands for Mar's Atmosphere and Volatile Evolution. 219 00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:41,600 Speaker 2: And it is an absolute workhorse. It was launched back 220 00:10:41,639 --> 00:10:44,440 in twenty thirteen, got into Mars orbit in twenty fourteen 221 00:10:44,639 --> 00:10:47,960 and has been operating flawlessly for a decade. 222 00:10:47,559 --> 00:10:52,600 Speaker 1: A decade circling Wares studying its upper atmosphere. This is 223 00:10:52,720 --> 00:10:57,039 crucial context. This isn't some new, faulty prototype, not at all. 224 00:10:57,120 --> 00:11:00,960 Speaker 2: This is a stable, mission critical probe. It has years 225 00:11:01,080 --> 00:11:04,320 and years of data processing and communication protocols under its belt. 226 00:11:04,559 --> 00:11:05,919 It knows what it's doing, and. 227 00:11:05,879 --> 00:11:10,759 Speaker 1: That stability is what makes the incident in question so bizarre. 228 00:11:10,840 --> 00:11:13,600 Speaker 2: We really need to detail the exact sequence of events 229 00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:16,320 that led to this sudden loss of communication as it 230 00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:17,440 was laid out in the source. 231 00:11:17,440 --> 00:11:20,279 Speaker 1: Okay, so it starts with a totally routine orbital maneuver. 232 00:11:20,960 --> 00:11:23,120 M AV goes behind Mars. 233 00:11:23,039 --> 00:11:27,000 Speaker 2: An event astronomers call occultation. Basically, the planet blocks the 234 00:11:27,039 --> 00:11:30,080 line of sight between the spacecraft and Earth, so communication stops. 235 00:11:30,080 --> 00:11:32,559 This is normal, it happens all the time, right, But. 236 00:11:32,519 --> 00:11:35,039 Speaker 1: When the spacecraft was expected to come out from behind 237 00:11:35,039 --> 00:11:36,480 Mars pre emerged. 238 00:11:36,120 --> 00:11:39,519 Speaker 2: There was no contact, no signal, just nothing silence. For 239 00:11:39,559 --> 00:11:41,519 a craft that has done this hundreds of times over 240 00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:43,919 ten years, this is deeply, deeply troubling. 241 00:11:44,080 --> 00:11:46,759 Speaker 1: Doctor Loeb confirmed it right. This is the first time 242 00:11:46,919 --> 00:11:50,440 in an entire decade that NASA has suddenly lost contact 243 00:11:50,679 --> 00:11:51,759 upon re emergence. 244 00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:56,360 Speaker 2: Yes, a failure right after ocultation suggests some kind of 245 00:11:56,399 --> 00:12:00,960 immediate catastrophic damage, either to its power system or crucially 246 00:12:01,159 --> 00:12:04,279 to its communication dish, something that would prevent it from 247 00:12:04,320 --> 00:12:07,080 even trying to re establish a link with the Deep 248 00:12:07,080 --> 00:12:08,159 Space Network on Earth. 249 00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:11,080 Speaker 1: And NASA's official line at the time of the interview 250 00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:13,960 was that they were actively trying to figure out what 251 00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:14,360 to do. 252 00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:16,799 Speaker 2: About it, which implies they hadn't given up hope, but 253 00:12:16,879 --> 00:12:20,480 it also confirms the severity of this unprecedented blackout. 254 00:12:20,600 --> 00:12:22,960 Speaker 1: But you know, the failure of an old satellite on 255 00:12:23,039 --> 00:12:26,720 its own isn't necessarily a huge conspiracy. It's the timing 256 00:12:26,919 --> 00:12:28,000 that's so suspicious. 257 00:12:28,200 --> 00:12:30,440 Speaker 2: It's all about the timing. The connection to commet at 258 00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:34,000 tells Maven wasn't just observing Mars. It had a front 259 00:12:34,039 --> 00:12:36,559 row seat to the comet's close flyby exactly. 260 00:12:37,080 --> 00:12:40,399 Speaker 1: The source material really emphasizes that the last valuable scientific 261 00:12:40,480 --> 00:12:43,000 data we got from Maven was specifically tied to the 262 00:12:43,039 --> 00:12:45,559 passage of this comet C twenty twenty three A three. 263 00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:48,639 Speaker 2: That flyby happened on October second, about two months before 264 00:12:48,639 --> 00:12:52,279 the interview. The comet passed within thirty million kilometers of. 265 00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:55,159 Speaker 1: Mars, which sounds like a lot, but in Solar system. 266 00:12:54,840 --> 00:12:59,679 Speaker 2: Terms, it's extremely close, well within range for Avon's sophisticated 267 00:12:59,720 --> 00:13:02,600 and means to analyze the comet's extended atmosphere. 268 00:13:02,879 --> 00:13:05,159 Speaker 1: It's coma, and we have to remember what AVAN is 269 00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:09,840 designed for. It's meant to study atmospheric evolution and volatiles. 270 00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:12,840 Speaker 2: So it's instruments like the imaging ultraviolet spectrograph or the 271 00:13:12,879 --> 00:13:16,279 neutral gas and ion mass spectrometer. They would have been 272 00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:20,759 perfectly calibrated to sniff the volatile gases of that comet's 273 00:13:20,759 --> 00:13:22,080 coma as it passed. 274 00:13:21,799 --> 00:13:23,879 Speaker 1: By Mars, so we know it should have been watching. 275 00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:25,200 Did it get any data back? 276 00:13:25,399 --> 00:13:28,159 Speaker 2: Yes, and doctor Loeb confirmed this. He said AVAN not 277 00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:32,039 only theoretically should have taken photos of atils, but it 278 00:13:32,120 --> 00:13:34,039 did already, and we saw some data from it at 279 00:13:34,080 --> 00:13:35,320 a recent NASA press. 280 00:13:35,039 --> 00:13:37,919 Speaker 1: Conference, so we know was observed. We know at least 281 00:13:37,960 --> 00:13:40,360 some preliminary data made it back to Earth. 282 00:13:40,200 --> 00:13:42,720 Speaker 2: Right, but all the rest of the expected data, that's 283 00:13:42,720 --> 00:13:44,240 where we have a data black hole. 284 00:13:44,360 --> 00:13:48,039 Speaker 1: The sudden failure of maeven means any further high resolution imaging, 285 00:13:48,559 --> 00:13:53,559 detailed spectroscopic analysis, any sustained calmetry related to the comets activity. 286 00:13:54,120 --> 00:13:55,559 It's all potentially lost forever. 287 00:13:55,840 --> 00:13:58,440 Speaker 2: And that's what is so fascinating here. You have this 288 00:13:58,559 --> 00:14:05,279 perfect storm. A ten year veteran spacecraft suddenly suffers a catastrophic. 289 00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:10,000 Speaker 1: Failure right after gathering potentially paradigm shifting data on a comment. 290 00:14:09,639 --> 00:14:14,159 Speaker 2: That is already exhibiting anomaloust behavior that sunfacing jet. The 291 00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:18,080 coincidence is just it's too potent to just dismiss out 292 00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:18,480 of hand. 293 00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:21,679 Speaker 1: It's the correlation that really feeds the skepticism. H I mean, 294 00:14:21,759 --> 00:14:24,919 think about it. If the data from Maven strongly favored 295 00:14:24,960 --> 00:14:27,519 the technological thrusters hypothesis, or even. 296 00:14:27,399 --> 00:14:30,039 Speaker 2: Just showed weird structures that were hard to classify, the. 297 00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:32,600 Speaker 1: Government would suddenly be in possession of evidence that shifts 298 00:14:32,639 --> 00:14:36,399 this whole narrative from an astronomical curiosity to a matter 299 00:14:36,480 --> 00:14:37,279 of intelligence. 300 00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:40,000 Speaker 2: And the interviewer in the source material they didn't hold 301 00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:42,799 back at all. They directly suggested that NASA's claim that 302 00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:46,080 Mavin is gone is just a very expedient way to 303 00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:48,200 make sure they can't release those photos publicly. 304 00:14:48,559 --> 00:14:52,879 Speaker 1: The failure becomes the ultimate form of plausible deniability. Sorry, 305 00:14:52,960 --> 00:14:54,799 we'd love to show you, but the probe is dead 306 00:14:55,240 --> 00:14:56,600 exactly now. 307 00:14:56,600 --> 00:15:00,639 Speaker 2: From a purely technical perspective, a failure if your occultation 308 00:15:00,759 --> 00:15:03,799 could just be random a component finally gave out after 309 00:15:03,840 --> 00:15:04,440 a decade. 310 00:15:04,519 --> 00:15:05,480 Speaker 1: Sure, that's possible. 311 00:15:05,559 --> 00:15:09,200 Speaker 2: But from a critical thinking perspective, why would a government 312 00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:13,919 agency responsible for national security prefer a suspicious technical explanation 313 00:15:14,360 --> 00:15:18,519 over releasing inconclusive or highly controversial data. 314 00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:22,519 Speaker 1: Because transparency in context like this could be seen as 315 00:15:22,600 --> 00:15:23,679 a threat multiplier. 316 00:15:23,879 --> 00:15:26,679 Speaker 2: That's the heart of it. If the data showed non 317 00:15:26,799 --> 00:15:31,080 natural activity, especially from technology we don't understand, the immediate 318 00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:34,279 reaction of the entire intelligence community is to classify it. 319 00:15:34,519 --> 00:15:37,000 Of course, if the truth is just too world chattering, 320 00:15:37,159 --> 00:15:40,440 or if it suggests a non terrestrial presence, the default 321 00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:43,559 bureaucratic reaction is always to control the narrative until they 322 00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:46,720 can figure out the implications themselves. The Loss probe story 323 00:15:46,799 --> 00:15:48,919 is just so much cleaner than a public debate about 324 00:15:48,960 --> 00:15:50,000 alien technology. 325 00:15:50,159 --> 00:15:53,240 Speaker 1: So the possibility is that Maven's instruments might have captured 326 00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:56,519 something something that could be interpreted as evidence of exotic 327 00:15:56,559 --> 00:15:59,960 technology near Mars, And it's a finding that the scientific 328 00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:04,759 establishment in the intelligence community are just fundamentally unprepared. 329 00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:07,440 Speaker 2: To release, and that suspicion it naturally deepens when we 330 00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:10,360 look at the official discussions around UAPs right here in 331 00:16:10,399 --> 00:16:11,559 our own atmosphere. 332 00:16:11,679 --> 00:16:14,440 Speaker 1: This is where the conversation makes that sharp transition, right 333 00:16:14,559 --> 00:16:17,879 It links the possible withholding of deep space data from 334 00:16:17,879 --> 00:16:22,879 Maven to this very real, very terrestrial problem of UAPs 335 00:16:22,960 --> 00:16:24,279 and government transparency. 336 00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:27,080 Speaker 2: It does, and the interviewer brought up Elon Musk. He's 337 00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:31,440 this central figure who has immense government contracts with SpaceX, 338 00:16:31,879 --> 00:16:34,679 and he really sits at the nexus of private innovation 339 00:16:34,919 --> 00:16:36,840 and classified aerospace programs. 340 00:16:36,879 --> 00:16:40,039 Speaker 1: And Musk recently commented on UAPs during a podcast, and 341 00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:43,200 his stance was, well, it was one of complete. 342 00:16:42,879 --> 00:16:46,759 Speaker 2: Dismissal, utter dismissal. He claimed, unequivocally, I've seen no evidence 343 00:16:46,759 --> 00:16:49,279 of aliens. And then he just simplified the entire UAP 344 00:16:49,399 --> 00:16:52,639 debate by saying a UFO is just an unidentified flying object. 345 00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:56,559 Speaker 1: And his explanation for what these things actually are was 346 00:16:56,720 --> 00:16:58,440 completely conventional totally. 347 00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:02,519 Speaker 2: He suggested there most likely a new weapons program or 348 00:17:02,519 --> 00:17:05,720 some hypersonic missile or something like that. His final conclusion 349 00:17:05,839 --> 00:17:09,759 was that they're just basically some weapons prototype. It's not 350 00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:10,759 like aliens. 351 00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:14,559 Speaker 1: That's a very powerful, very authoritative statement from someone in 352 00:17:14,599 --> 00:17:17,880 his position, and if you accept it, it just it 353 00:17:17,920 --> 00:17:19,319 shifts the entire mystery. 354 00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:23,160 Speaker 2: It suggests there is no mystery, it's just human secrecy. 355 00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:26,200 The UAP debate, in Musk's view, is simply a defense 356 00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:30,480 intelligence concern. It's either a US black project or you know, 357 00:17:30,519 --> 00:17:32,640 a secret platform from a foreign adversary. 358 00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:35,480 Speaker 1: But both the interviewer and doctor Love immediately jumped on 359 00:17:35,519 --> 00:17:36,519 that with a lot of skepticism. 360 00:17:36,640 --> 00:17:39,400 Speaker 2: He did, it's just hard to imagine someone running SpaceX 361 00:17:39,440 --> 00:17:43,440 with all its classified government launches and deep aerospace partnerships, 362 00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:46,680 being genuinely excluded from all knowledge if these things were 363 00:17:46,759 --> 00:17:49,000 purely domestic US prototypes. 364 00:17:49,160 --> 00:17:52,240 Speaker 1: Right, So the question is, is Musk minimizing the phenomena 365 00:17:52,319 --> 00:17:55,680 to protect his governmental relationships and keep those contracts, or. 366 00:17:55,720 --> 00:17:58,920 Speaker 2: Does he genuinely not know because the phenomena are actually 367 00:17:59,039 --> 00:18:02,359 outside the per view of the military industrial complex that 368 00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:02,960 he operates in. 369 00:18:03,119 --> 00:18:06,519 Speaker 1: And this is where doctor Lowe offered a really critical, 370 00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:11,799 evidence based counterpoint that just fundamentally undermines that idea that 371 00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:15,000 these UAPs are just our own secret prototypes. 372 00:18:15,359 --> 00:18:19,240 Speaker 2: He invoked the official testimony from the highest levels of 373 00:18:19,359 --> 00:18:23,480 US intelligence the Director of National Intelligence, the DNI. 374 00:18:23,359 --> 00:18:26,000 Speaker 1: The DNI who is supposed to have total visibility across 375 00:18:26,039 --> 00:18:27,440 the entire intelligence community. 376 00:18:27,480 --> 00:18:30,759 Speaker 2: And this DNI has delivered, he says, more than three 377 00:18:30,839 --> 00:18:34,440 reports to the US Congress in recent years publicly detailing 378 00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:35,839 the UAP issue, and. 379 00:18:35,839 --> 00:18:38,799 Speaker 1: The content of those reports. That is the critical piece 380 00:18:38,839 --> 00:18:39,480 of evidence here. 381 00:18:39,559 --> 00:18:42,279 Speaker 2: It is the dn I basically testify that there are 382 00:18:42,279 --> 00:18:44,160 objects in the guy that we don't fully understand. The 383 00:18:44,200 --> 00:18:46,319 language they use is always that they don't have enough 384 00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:47,839 data to figure out their nature. 385 00:18:48,119 --> 00:18:50,359 Speaker 1: Let's just pause and think about the weight of that statement. 386 00:18:51,240 --> 00:18:54,400 The Director of National Intelligence is not reporting on things 387 00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:55,920 they know but can't disclose. 388 00:18:56,359 --> 00:18:59,559 Speaker 2: No, they are reporting that things exist in our most 389 00:18:59,640 --> 00:19:04,079 highly controlled, sensitive airspace that they cannot classify because they 390 00:19:04,119 --> 00:19:07,119 don't understand them. It is a public admission of an 391 00:19:07,119 --> 00:19:10,200 intelligence failure on a basic identification level. 392 00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:12,880 Speaker 1: And this brings us to doctor Loeb's critical deduction. Yeah, 393 00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:15,960 it's this beautiful piece of logic that really separates his 394 00:19:16,079 --> 00:19:19,200 analysis from just mere speculation. 395 00:19:19,559 --> 00:19:22,480 Speaker 2: He says, Look, if the UAPs that the DNI is 396 00:19:22,519 --> 00:19:26,119 reporting on were produced by American defense contractors like Lockheed 397 00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:28,119 Martin or Northrope Grumman or were. 398 00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:32,079 Speaker 1: A product of a highly classified US military program. 399 00:19:31,559 --> 00:19:34,880 Speaker 2: The Director of National Intelligence would absolutely one hundred percent 400 00:19:34,920 --> 00:19:37,839 know about it, and they would never ever mention it 401 00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:40,599 publicly to Congress in a way that suggests they are 402 00:19:40,599 --> 00:19:41,519 completely ignorant. 403 00:19:41,559 --> 00:19:44,279 Speaker 1: They would say that data is classified, but they wouldn't admit, 404 00:19:44,440 --> 00:19:47,000 as the head of the entire intelligence apparatus, that they 405 00:19:47,079 --> 00:19:48,480 can't figure out what the object is. 406 00:19:48,519 --> 00:19:52,000 Speaker 2: Precisely so, since the DNI did testify about objects that 407 00:19:52,079 --> 00:19:56,119 define known classification and understanding, doctor Lowe assumes the government 408 00:19:56,160 --> 00:19:57,759 has a problem, and he's very. 409 00:19:57,640 --> 00:20:00,160 Speaker 1: Clear that this is a problem of national security that 410 00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:03,640 is fundamentally related to external factors, not internal ones. 411 00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:06,200 Speaker 2: Which means, if the objects are real and they are 412 00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:08,720 not our own black projects, they have to be one 413 00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:14,319 of two things, either extremely advanced platforms from a foreign adversary, or. 414 00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:19,200 Speaker 1: Perhaps something truly nonterrestrial. The moment the DNI admits ignorance, 415 00:20:19,279 --> 00:20:22,519 the Elon Musk hypothesis of it's just a weapons prototype 416 00:20:22,839 --> 00:20:24,839 loses a significant amount of ground. 417 00:20:24,599 --> 00:20:27,440 Speaker 2: And this national security problem leads doctor Lobe to a 418 00:20:27,599 --> 00:20:31,319 very direct and very serious critique of the Pentagon and 419 00:20:31,359 --> 00:20:32,279 defense officials. 420 00:20:32,359 --> 00:20:36,519 Speaker 1: It's about transparency and resource allocation right. 421 00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:39,920 Speaker 2: He argued that defense officials don't want to be scrutinized, 422 00:20:40,119 --> 00:20:43,720 and he ties this directly to the absolutely staggering financial context. 423 00:20:43,839 --> 00:20:46,200 Speaker 1: The US pays one trillion dollars a year on the 424 00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:47,200 defense budget. 425 00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:49,680 Speaker 2: A trillion dollars a year. That is a monumental amount 426 00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:52,240 of money that is intended to guarantee US security and 427 00:20:52,279 --> 00:20:53,839 technological superiority. 428 00:20:54,119 --> 00:20:58,160 Speaker 1: So if objects are maneuvering through US airspace in ways 429 00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:00,799 that defy physics as we understand it, and the D 430 00:21:00,839 --> 00:21:03,720 and I is publicly admitting they can't identify them, then. 431 00:21:03,839 --> 00:21:07,359 Speaker 2: The natural logical conclusion is that defense officials are not 432 00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:08,279 doing their job. 433 00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:11,079 Speaker 1: The implication isn't just that they're hiding things, it's that 434 00:21:11,119 --> 00:21:12,680 they might be hiding incompetence. 435 00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:15,759 Speaker 2: That's a huge part of it. If they cannot identify 436 00:21:15,839 --> 00:21:19,119 these potential threats, whether they're foreign or something else, entirely, 437 00:21:19,519 --> 00:21:22,400 it suggests that the one trillion dollar budget is being 438 00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:27,319 misspent on technologies that don't provide adequate identification or defense 439 00:21:27,680 --> 00:21:29,880 against these unknown phenomena, and that. 440 00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:33,400 Speaker 1: Lack of performance creates a massive, massive incentive for secrecy. 441 00:21:33,559 --> 00:21:34,759 Nobody wants to admit. 442 00:21:34,559 --> 00:21:38,119 Speaker 2: That, so you have this deepening tension. The military requires 443 00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:41,599 secrecy to protect its capabilities. That makes sense, of course, 444 00:21:41,799 --> 00:21:44,039 but the public has a right to know if unknown, 445 00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:48,720 potentially disruptive phenomena are operating in our skies, especially if 446 00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:52,319 our multi trillion dollar defense apparatus can even tell us 447 00:21:52,359 --> 00:21:52,799 what they are. 448 00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:55,480 Speaker 1: And that's where the thread connecting all three sections really 449 00:21:55,519 --> 00:21:56,440 becomes taught. 450 00:21:56,559 --> 00:21:59,599 Speaker 2: It does. The mav In probe may have gathered data 451 00:21:59,599 --> 00:22:03,559 on exis xotic propulsion from commet atls, which, if it 452 00:22:03,599 --> 00:22:07,519 were released, would confirm the possibility of non conventional technology 453 00:22:07,559 --> 00:22:08,599 in our solar system. 454 00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:12,079 Speaker 1: Meanwhile, the DNI is confirming that non conventional objects are 455 00:22:12,079 --> 00:22:13,880 already operating in our skies. 456 00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:17,559 Speaker 2: And the institutional gatekeepers doctor Loebe suggests, would much prefer 457 00:22:17,599 --> 00:22:21,640 the status quo of secrecy over the disruptive transparency of 458 00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:25,880 admitting both their technological vulnerability and their scientific uncertainty. 459 00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:29,920 Speaker 1: Wow. This has truly been a thrilling threads deep dive. 460 00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:32,160 I mean, we've gone from the nucleus of a comment 461 00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:35,839 all the way to classified reports being delivered to Congress. 462 00:22:36,079 --> 00:22:38,839 Let's try to synthesize the connections doctor Lobe has exposed 463 00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:39,200 for us. 464 00:22:39,279 --> 00:22:43,720 Speaker 2: Okay, First, you have the ATLS comment, it's bizarre sunfacing 465 00:22:43,799 --> 00:22:46,720 jet challenges are basic models of physics, and it forces 466 00:22:46,759 --> 00:22:49,359 us to seriously consider two very different. 467 00:22:49,039 --> 00:22:55,960 Speaker 1: Options, extraordinary natural volatility or non conventional possibly artificial propulsion exactly. 468 00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:59,559 Speaker 2: Then, second, you have the sudden decade first loss of 469 00:22:59,599 --> 00:23:01,519 the may In spacecraft. 470 00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:04,440 Speaker 1: Which happened immediately after it gathered valuable scientific data during 471 00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:08,079 that atla's flyby near Mars. This leads to this very 472 00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:11,960 legitimate suspicion the key data about the comet's weird behavior 473 00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:14,960 has been conveniently silenced or suppressed. 474 00:23:15,279 --> 00:23:18,160 Speaker 2: And third, you have the UAP context right here on Earth. 475 00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:21,599 Doctor Loeb uses the official testimony of the Director of 476 00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:23,480 National Intelligence. 477 00:23:23,039 --> 00:23:26,119 Speaker 1: Who admits to objects that defy classification. 478 00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:29,599 Speaker 2: To argue pretty compellingly that these phenomena cannot simply be 479 00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:33,960 our own secret weapons prototypes, and this directly conflicts with 480 00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:36,680 the narrative put forth by people like Elon Musk and 481 00:23:36,799 --> 00:23:39,839 demands we take a much deeper look at defense spending 482 00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:40,799 and accountability. 483 00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:43,839 Speaker 1: It really feels like doctor Loeb's work is continually challenging 484 00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:47,039 the establishment view, doesn't it, Whether that establishment is the 485 00:23:47,039 --> 00:23:50,519 traditional view of how comets work or the complex machinery 486 00:23:50,559 --> 00:23:51,559 of US intelligence. 487 00:23:51,799 --> 00:23:55,319 Speaker 2: He forces us to consider where that boundary lies, the 488 00:23:55,359 --> 00:23:58,599 boundary between phenomena that are purely natural, those that are 489 00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:03,920 conventionally military, and those that are truly unknown and potentially revolutionary. 490 00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:06,559 Speaker 1: His core message seems to be a reminder that we 491 00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:10,039 have to pursue objective data, especially when these nominalies pop up, 492 00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:10,319 and that. 493 00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:13,599 Speaker 2: We have to demand ritorous accountability and transparency from the 494 00:24:13,599 --> 00:24:16,960 institutions that are tasked with safeguarding both our scientific knowledge 495 00:24:17,119 --> 00:24:18,359 and our national security. 496 00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:20,680 Speaker 1: So what does this all mean for you as you're 497 00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:23,160 listening and processing this confluence of information. 498 00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:25,480 Speaker 2: I think it means we have to be highly attuned 499 00:24:25,519 --> 00:24:29,799 to these moments where critical scientific discovery intersects directly with 500 00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:31,039 institutional control. 501 00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:34,839 Speaker 1: The pursuit of pure knowledge can so often get derailed 502 00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:37,839 by what are perceived as national security risks. 503 00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:40,640 Speaker 2: And that creates this constant tension over what information is 504 00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:42,759 deemed safe for public consumption. 505 00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:45,599 Speaker 1: So we want to leave you with this final provocative 506 00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:46,920 thought to mollover, if. 507 00:24:46,839 --> 00:24:50,319 Speaker 2: A major, decade long space mission like AVAN can suddenly 508 00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:53,759 go dark just after gathering data on an interstellar object 509 00:24:53,759 --> 00:24:56,359 that might be exhibiting artificial behavior, and. 510 00:24:56,359 --> 00:24:59,599 Speaker 1: If at the same time, high ranking intelligence officials are 511 00:24:59,599 --> 00:25:03,480 testify that objects exist in our own skies that defy 512 00:25:03,599 --> 00:25:07,920 classification by a one trillion dollars a year defense budget. 513 00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:11,359 Speaker 2: Where do you personally draw the line between pure scientific 514 00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:13,519 discovery and necessary government secrecy. 515 00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:17,240 Speaker 1: Is the sudden, unprecedented silence of the NAVE and probe 516 00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:19,599 just an unfortunate coincidence that we have to. 517 00:25:19,559 --> 00:25:22,799 Speaker 2: Accept, or is it the telltale sound of a definitive 518 00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:27,000 gait slamming shut on potentially paradigm shattering knowledge. 519 00:25:27,079 --> 00:25:29,359 Speaker 1: We will definitely be tracking all the data that comes 520 00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:32,640 out from those global observatories about comedy TLS, and we 521 00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:35,319 look forward to hearing your thoughts on this complex balance. 522 00:25:35,519 --> 00:25:37,839 Speaker 2: Until the next time we pull a thread, keep questioning 523 00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:40,039 the Cosmos n and the cover ups.