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Speaker 1: We're Tom A Lorenzo and this is the Pop Style

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Opinion Fest. Hello, KITT's, welcome back to another edition of

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the Pso I am the Tea and you're Telo Tom Fitzgerald,

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and I'm here with the low and your til Lorenzo,

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my cousin. I love the husband. How are you lovely?

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Speaker 2: I wonder if I'm ready for four?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yes we are. There's a little tiny little bit

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of a nip in the air this week. It's got

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a little rainy in our neck of the woods.

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Speaker 2: I like the fashion. I like everything about it. I

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like pumpkin pie. Yeah I don't.

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Speaker 1: I yeah, I always find it a difficult transition to

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get back into long pants and sweaters and that sort

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of thing.

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Speaker 2: But I do like it.

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Speaker 1: Sweater person, So oh yeah you are. And we have

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started the process of putting our Halloween decorations up. And

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I say processed because it's like Christmas. Yeah. We are

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now the type of people where it's like, oh okay.

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It takes a couple of days to get everything up

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and running, which.

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Speaker 2: Is funny because we had nothing. We had no Halloween. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: We talked about this before on the podcast. If you

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don't if you're not up on your Telo lure. Last

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year we were going away for Christmas. We went to

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Germany and the Netherlands and Belgium for Christmas, and so

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we weren't going to do an elaborate decorating thing. And

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if you again, if you follow your Telo lure, we

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we have an elaborate with it's crazy. We decorate a

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lot for Christmas. So I was a little sad that

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we weren't going to be able to decorate for Christmas.

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So I said, you know what, let's let's really beef

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up our Halloween decorations. And last year we went a

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little crazy and we actually did a post on all

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of our Halloween decorations. And then Lorenzo was in I

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think you were kind of in a cranky mood. And

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when Lorenzo and he needed to go, He's like, I'm

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going to go out. And whenever Lorenzo's in a cranky

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mood like that, the best thing to do is to

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give him something to shop for. So it's like, oh, honey,

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go to TJ Max and get me dish heels, because

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I know that will calm him down.

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Speaker 2: Spinning money shopping.

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Speaker 1: Cause said this, I think you said, you were going

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to TJ Max And then I said, you know what,

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pick up some Halloween stuff. And he said, well, you know,

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what do you want and that sort of thing, and I,

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you know, if you paid attention at all, you know,

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I tend to take control of these sorts of things,

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but I really want Lorenzo to be in it, so

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a couple of them. We've done this with Christmas stuff,

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We've done this with Easter stuff, where I literally send

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him out and say, go get decorations, do not ask

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my permission, don't even send me, don't send me pictures

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or anything. I want to be surprised with what you

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come home with. And you know, I want you to

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be reflected in our.

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Speaker 2: And everything with fabulous and fun. It was.

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Speaker 1: He came home with a bunch of things. And then

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a couple of weeks ago we had to go to

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Ikea to get our twice yearly supply of napkins from

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Ikias Napkins Ever Beest Napkins Ever, and they had some

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really cute Halloween stuff, so we bought even more. And

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now we're in the process of putting it all up

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because things need to be hung. There's about five thousand

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things that need to have batteries put in them so

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it looks cute. We have decals for the front window.

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It's all black cats and bats and it's really cute.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's funny because I'm not. I wasn't really a

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Halloween type of guy, but now I do, like, I know,

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I like, I enjoyed the decorations we have and all that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I've said this before. After my mom died,

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I realized we just don't have any We always had

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Christmas decorations, but that was it. We never really had

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much else. And I never felt I need to which

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you know, we don't have children, so I don't need

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to be putting out easter bunnies every year or whatever

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little scarecrows at Halloween. So it was never a thing

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that mattered to me. And then I realized after my

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mom died that, you know, every time I went to

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her house, and you know, we used to go all

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the time, it was decorated according to the season. You know,

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like she's a grandma. She was a grandma, she had grandkids.

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It was very much a grandma house kind of thing.

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Speaker 2: So we had a place to go and you know.

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Speaker 1: And mark the passing of the Without that, I was like, oh,

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it feels kind of dry. I need some pumpkins. I

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need a couple of witches, that sort of thing. And

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then it just grew and now it's this ridiculously elaborate

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thing where we have about five hundred pumpkins in the house.

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Speaker 2: Anyway, but it looks adorable.

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Speaker 1: It does look adorable. I just got a really cute,

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like gothic Adam's family style candelabra. It's like this black

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curly and we're gonna put led taper candles and then

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put it in the window and it's gonna look very cool. Anyway,

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that's that.

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Speaker 2: And he's gonna make me a pumpkin pie.

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Speaker 1: Maybe do we need more sweets? I don't think.

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Speaker 2: Yes we do. And candy we haven't bought candy.

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Speaker 1: We haven't bought candy. I'm well, what I would suggest

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we have a couple of really cute candy dishes. And

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what I would like to do is get a big,

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like five pound bag of eminem Halloween Eminem's. They have

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them in Halloween colors.

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Speaker 2: Like, well, there you go and.

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Speaker 1: Just put those out and eat.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: The thing if I get like a bag of kit

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Kats or snickers or whatever they're all calling it. That'll

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be gone. And I have zero drawers.

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Speaker 2: I have zero control killing little bols.

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Speaker 1: With Eminem's a couple times during the month. That's a

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little more manageable anyway. As you can tell, we we

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have overthought this completely, as we tend to do most things.

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All Right, So this week on the podcast, we are

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going to talk about House of Guinness, the show that's

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just debuted on Netflix that we've actually been dropping little

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bits and pieces about for the past couple of weeks.

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Lorenzo loved it. He's watched the whole thing. I like it.

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I don't have lots of criticisms, but I don't.

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Speaker 2: Oh, that's changed because I thought you were going to

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be more negative about it.

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Speaker 1: No, that's good.

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Speaker 2: That's good.

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Speaker 1: I oh was it good?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's good because I loved it in thes that

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I was very entertained by it. I thought it was Yeah,

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we'll talk.

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Speaker 1: About that'll be this back half of the podcast because

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we'll probably get into a couple of spoilery things when

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we get into that, but we'll give you warning of that.

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And it is also before we get to that, we're

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going to do a little retrospective, another movie retrospective. A

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couple of weeks ago, we had a discussion about the

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fiftieth anniversary of Gray Gardens and what it meant to

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us and why Edie Little ed Beale was such an

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icon to queer people. And it's also as of today,

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I believed it was released on September twenty sixth, nineteen

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seventy five in the United States. Is the Rocky Horror

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Picture Show. Fiftieth anniversary of the Rocky Horror Picture Show.

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So nineteen seventy five was a hell of a year

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for and Jaws. To write Jaws was fiftieth anniversary as well. Yeah,

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I'm gonna be We're gonna talk about it. We're going

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to do the same thing we did, and we're just

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gonna unpack it. There was a tremendous amount of research

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done on The Rocky Horror Picture Show in preparation for

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our book Legendary Cheldren.

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Speaker 2: To talk about it's let's mention that it's in the book.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so we'll get into that. But before we do

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all of that, I wanted to just, you know, check

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back in on last week's topic, which was Jimmy Kimmel

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getting suspended by Disney ABC because there has been movement

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on that, and we said that at the end of

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last week's podcast that by the time this thing went live,

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the whole thing could have been resolved. And it didn't

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resolve itself right away, but it did resolve itself, and

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he did wind up back on the air. Well money talked, Well,

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that's the thing. A lot of people, I mean, apparently

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the talks and everything, the Disney Plus subscriptions plummeted. I

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don't even know if our cancelation went through because the

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site kept crashing. I tried like fifteen times to control

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our subscription and then then they let them back on

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the air, and I was like, well, I don't know

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if there's I don't know if I'm supposed to follow

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through on this or not. I never went back as

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far as I know, I think it might have gone through,

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and we are camping at the bottom.

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Speaker 2: Line is that they were not expecting the type of

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backlash that they got. Financially also, right, and that's that's

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that's it. If it's about money, then things, you know.

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Speaker 1: Right change and not only it wasn't just money. Well,

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I mean it all comes to money, I get it,

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but it wasn't just the Disney subscriptions. The backlash in

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the entertainment industry was apparently something that Disney did not expect.

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There was a massive letter from people, you know, actors

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and performers saying that they would not work for Disney anymore,

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which you know that's big.

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Speaker 2: I mean, actress on TikTok, we're talking about canceling their subscription,

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like Cindy Nixon was on TikTok.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Tatiana Maslani, Yeah, we're both Marvel stars, right, So,

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I mean, the backlash was coming from all corners. It

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was coming from consumers, it was coming from the industry,

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it was coming you know, it was both financial backlash

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and cultural backlash. And you know, Disney can't sustain that

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kind of backlash for too long. And they they caved,

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which is good. I'm not going to give them lots

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of credit. In fact, I'm still wrestling with if we

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haven't canceled Disney, should we go ahead and just do it,

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because they've revealed themselves to be kind of unreliable and

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in terms of protecting their performers and you know, supporting

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the First Amendment. But so yeah, I'm glad that he's

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back on the air. Listen, and I'll repeat what I

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said last week. I'm not some huge Jimmy Kimmel fan.

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I don't really have a problem with him, but he's

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you know whatever, I'm not some huge fan.

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Speaker 2: They honestly, I don't watch talk. We don't watch I

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only watch what we post on our site, the embedded videos.

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But no, I don't turn the DV on at night

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and watch doc show.

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Speaker 1: I'll watch the clips then, yeah. Yeah, And we talked

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about that, that this is a dying form and that

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you know, the the administration new to go after someone

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like this because he's in a week in state.

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Speaker 2: But it's much bigger than that. It's about freedom of

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speech and yeah, and other things.

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Speaker 1: And ironically, I think this may have wound up strengthening

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Kimmel's all the more. Like the ratings for even we

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should mention Sinclair Television Group, which was the affiliate you know,

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they own all these affiliate stations across you.

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Speaker 2: Know, about forty of them, right, yeah.

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Speaker 1: And they they were the ones that initiated this whole thing,

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that they were making threats and they were going to

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pull the show, and then that's turned into Disney basically

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suspending him, so Disney brought him back, But all of

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these Sinclair affiliates did not run. Sinclair is a very

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right wing media company, and you know, liberals have been

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screaming about the danger of this affiliate company owning so

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much of our media for well over a decade now.

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So for me, at least, having read up on the media,

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you know, always always, always being on top of what's

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going on in the media, none of what happened was

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particularly surprising to me. Sinclair has been a problem for

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a while. So they're still not going to air his show.

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And this doesn't affect us because I checked and we

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are not in a Sinclair market, which is nice for us.

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But there are a bunch of markets across the country

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that are not going to be able to watch this

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show because they're right. They want him to apologize, they

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want him to donate to Turning Point usl this other bullshit.

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It means to be seen what kind of backlash is

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going to be needed in order to get them to cave.

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Although the if I can, if you are in a

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market where Sinclair has preempted this show and this means

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something to you and you want to fight it, then

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what you need to do is watch the programming that

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they put on during Jimmy Kimmel's show, write down the

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names of the advertisers, and contact the advertisers. Now, that

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is a lot of work that I am putting on people,

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but that's literally the only thing that's going to get

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is you need to go to the people that are

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paying for this stuff and start threatening them with boycotts.

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That's what made Disney cave and that's what's going to

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make Sinclair cave. But unfortunately, it was a lot easier

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to do it with Disney because it was just about unsubscribing,

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pressing a button and unsubscribing. But you've got to sit down,

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take down names, find contact information, and then contact advertisers.

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I am ninety nine percent sure if you really want

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to do that, there were places you can go online

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to find these lists and these contacts yourself. So Google,

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Google this sort of thing. And that's all I can

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say about that, because this is going to be an

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ongoing problem. The reason we're bringing this up again is

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because you know, Disney caved and they gave him his

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spot back, and right after that, Apple Caves. Apple TV

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had a series about to launch. It was I think

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it was going to go out this week with Jessica

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chat Stain called Savant and it was about domestic terrorist

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at right wing domestic terrorism. And in the wake of

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you know, Charlie kirk assassination, they have pulled this show

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at the last minute and they have not made it

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clear if it's ever going to air. And again this

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is a huge issue because again Apple owned by billionaires,

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very very wealthy people are deciding what we can and

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cannot see, what we can and cannot talk about, what

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ideas are acceptable and what ideas are not. And purely

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from a I'm sorry, I'm talking a lot to you

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want to talk, Go ahead, you're fascinated. Just love listening

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to you, right, love listen. I think you're falling asleep.

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Take us to be your coffee. I completely lost my head.

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Speaker 2: Anyway, The bottom line here is that we have companies

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pretty much owning a lot of things, you know, like it.

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It's down to as I you know, jokingly said on

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the last vodcast, it's down to two people now.

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Speaker 1: Two people own all everything.

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Speaker 2: Everything, So when they make a decision, it affects a

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lot of people. A lot of showed companies, you know,

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it's not just one thing anymore.

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Speaker 1: I got to get Jessica Chastain some credit because she

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immediately spoke out against it and said, I do not

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support this at all. And you know there would be

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if you recall, and this isn't a criticism of Jimmy Kimmel,

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but if you recall, he was dead something radio silent

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for several days after this happened. He didn't immediately come

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out right right, but she immediately came out and said

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I do not s this at all. And I thought

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that was I don't want to say overstated. I don't

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want to say it was brave of her, but it was.

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You know, it took some balls because she's a working

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actress and you know, for her to speak out against

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a major studio like that is putting future work at risk,

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is putting the future of this project at risk. However,

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this is why the entertainment industry needs to stand up

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to this kind of thing, and it's why people stood

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up to Disney last week. It's because as a studio,

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you are basically saying that the work of the people,

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the work of our creative people, the work of our

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actors and actresses, directors, writers, It doesn't matter, will trash

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it at the drop of a hat, and we will

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not defend you or support you when people come after you, right,

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And that is a terrible, terrible, terrible message for any

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studio to be sending to its creatives. So I don't

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know what's going to happen with Apple TV. And it's

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not this, you know, it's not like Disney.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 1: The thing is that Jimmy Kimmel thing was a perfect storm.

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It's why everybody immediately said, oh, they fucked up on

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this one, because that's the one guy you can't go in.

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I mean, I'm not saying he's untouchable, but the combination

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of Jimmy Kimmel and Disney made it a very easy

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thing to grasp and to boycott. How do you I mean,

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who's gonna boycott Apple TV? Plus most people don't even

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remember it exists, it's not one of the bigger streamers, right,

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And I don't think people are likely running to.

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Speaker 2: And what are you gonna do? You're gonna you're gonna

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drop your iPhone and get a different phone. I mean,

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because it goes, you know, right, a lot deeper than

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just than just Apple TV.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't even know how to combat this one,

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but I mean, I will speak out against it, and

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I do think it's pretty awful that these major, major,

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major entertainment companies are bowing to the slightest bit of

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pressure from the public or the administration. Anyway. Yeah, have

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we exhausted that, Why don't we take a short break? Yes,

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and we'll be back and we will dive into the

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Rocky Heart Picture Show. We'll be right back. We're back,

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and now we're going to talk about the Rocky Horror

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Picture Show, which is near and dear to our hearts,

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but on an intellectual level, not on a personal level.

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I will start off by saying.

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Speaker 2: It's so funny. I was going to say the same thing.

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Speaker 1: We are not we are of the generation, we're jenets.

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I mean, Rocky Horror really was a baby boomer thing originally,

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but by the time I was in college, it was

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a thing like everyone I knew was going to midnight

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screenings and stuff. It wasn't something I really latched onto

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when I was young, and I'll be honest, I think

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part of that is because I was scared of it.

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You know, when I was young, I was in the

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closet and that was so scary and exactly and but

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that that actually touches on a bunch of reasons why

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this was so important. But go ahead give me your thoughts.

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Speaker 2: Well, I was too much into other things at that age,

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so I didn't know. I wasn't interested in it. I

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think I started thinking about it and getting more interested

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when it was on Fame, the movie Fame.

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Speaker 1: Really well, yeah, they all went to it. That's right,

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that's right, guys.

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Speaker 2: You know, I'm a musician playing the violin and I

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was very interested in the face.

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Speaker 1: That's what popularized it for jen X is that movie.

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Speaker 2: Because the movie was like I was like, oh, okay,

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and then I got I knew about it, but I

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wasn't really that interested. But after that I was like, oh,

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now I have to look it up, find out more

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about it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah we should. Let's just I'm not gonna give you

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a total history lesson. I would never claim that I'm

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an expert on the show. But The Rocky Horror Picture

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Show started as a stage show in London or in England,

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and it was an underground cold head it was. It

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was written by a Queerman named Richard O'Brien who actually

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starred in it as well.

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Speaker 2: And.

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Speaker 1: I think culturally speaking it it exists on a seventies

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continuum that includes things like cabaret and pink flamingos and

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believe it or not, Greece. It's like on a continuum

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between those films. If you look at I've always said

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this that e Liza Minellen's classic mine Hair look, you know,

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the Derby and the black hotpants and everything, and Tim

370
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Curry's Rocky Horror Picture Show look are only about a

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half step off from each other. They're very, very similar

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if you were to put them. I don't mean they

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I mean he's wearing like lingerie, but it was very

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much in that sort of pre punk glam rock mode.

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Both of those costumes. They would both highly sexualized looks.

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They both had to deal with things like garters and

377
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boots and heavy eye make you know that sort of thing.

378
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I do think Cabaret, like Rockyhard, dabbled a little bit

379
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in drag. It had a little bit of drag aspects

380
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to it. Joel Gray's MC was based on, you know,

381
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the dandies of the nineteen twenties in Weimar, Germany, and

382
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even the Chorus girls and Liza herself. The makeup had

383
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that very very heavy Now it was appropriate for the

384
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nineteen thirties in Germany, I'm not saying it wasn't. But

385
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you know, films get made, even period films, and they

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reflect the times in which they were made, just as

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much as they reflect the times that they are talking about.

388
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And there's a lot about Cabaret that's historically accurate, but

389
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there's a lot about it that is strictly purely nineteen

390
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seventy four. You can't get a way from the nineteen

391
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seventy fourness of it. And I'm only bringing that up

392
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because I feel like, you know, Rocky Horror is on

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that continue and part of the reason it became so

394
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such a cult favorite is because it was operating within

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a cultural moment where it made sense. And the reason

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I attributed to something like Grease, which came out like

397
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three or four years later, is because they're both nineteen

398
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fifty style musicals. The music's the music in Rocky Horror

399
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is almost completely indistinguishable from the music in Greece. You

400
00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:35,079
could switch some of those songs around and they would

401
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fit perfectly. So that's my point is that the show

402
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arose because at that moment in the nineteen seventies Poststone Wall.

403
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It's about seven or eight years post Stone Wall. Baby

404
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Boomers were dealing with duel. I've always felt this about

405
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baby Boomers, especially during that period. They were dealing with

406
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both nostalgia for the past and a driving need to

407
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push towards the future. So you had these nineteen fifties

408
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style rockabilly shows like Rocky, Horror Picture Show or Grease.

409
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But at the same time, in the nineteen seventies, at

410
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the height of the sexual Revolution, you had people dealing

411
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with gender nonconformity and bisexuality and different forms of queerness,

412
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and that was all being pushed on people. Even Greece

413
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was a movie and a story that dealt with all

414
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of the esthetics of the nineteen fifties while promoting an

415
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extremely nineteen seventies point of view about sexual liberation and

416
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that sort of thing. So all of these things were

417
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happening roughly in the same decade, three to four years

418
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apart from each other, and I have always felt that

419
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they were connected. And I bring up Pink Flamingos because

420
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even though esthetically there's not a lot that are connecting it,

421
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it was the other huge queer drag film of that period.

422
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And both of those films Pink Flamingos on The Rocky

423
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Horror Picture Show were I mean influential on the culture

424
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in a way that almost can't be measured. Every drag

425
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Queen owes, every modern drag Queen Owes divine a debt

426
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popularizing not just popularizing drag, but pushing the art form past,

427
00:23:26,039 --> 00:23:29,240
you know, Judy Garland and Marilyn Monroe impersonation and into

428
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something expressive and dangerous and and a little you know,

429
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something that you should fear. Rocky Horror was doing the

430
00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:39,960
same thing where it was, you know. And this is

431
00:23:40,039 --> 00:23:42,079
my point that I wanted to make about why, as

432
00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:44,839
a closeted kid, a closeted gen X kid, I was

433
00:23:45,599 --> 00:23:49,279
I didn't go and see it. Rocky Horror was scary,

434
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and it was meant to be scary, And I don't

435
00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:54,480
mean scary like jump scares, and I mean.

436
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Speaker 2: It was scary, well, no, it was.

437
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Speaker 1: It was scarying you with your own feelings and your

438
00:24:02,599 --> 00:24:07,599
own thoughts because here's a male presenting person who is

439
00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:13,119
very lacibious and very sexually open, but he is in

440
00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:19,279
pretty much full drag and it wasn't like female impersonation drag,

441
00:24:19,319 --> 00:24:23,000
which is again before Divine, this was how people understood

442
00:24:23,079 --> 00:24:25,400
drag the general public was you dress up to look

443
00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:28,440
like Marilyn Monroe or Judy Garland or Barbas streisand it's

444
00:24:28,519 --> 00:24:33,440
female impersonation. And then Divine And then Tim Curry came

445
00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:37,279
along as Frankenfurter and said, no, it's about expression. It's

446
00:24:37,279 --> 00:24:39,960
not even about being pretty, and it's not even about

447
00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:44,319
being feminine. It's about being in your face and expressive

448
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and scaring you with your own attraction to this person.

449
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Speaker 2: I agree. Tim Curry actually gave an interview of the

450
00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:55,559
La Times, I believe, and he talked about how it

451
00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:58,119
took a lot of courage even back then, Yes, oh

452
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God to come out to your first scene and you

453
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dress like.

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Speaker 1: That in the same card.

455
00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:07,039
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it even for the time, And he

456
00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:10,119
talked about he joked about how twentieth century Fox probably

457
00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:13,400
didn't know what they were doing. Yeah, let that, you know,

458
00:25:13,559 --> 00:25:16,039
let them do what they did. The costumes and the

459
00:25:16,079 --> 00:25:20,799
crazy characters and the house and the liberation, the freedom

460
00:25:20,839 --> 00:25:25,799
of everything, you know, all that that was kind of

461
00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:28,039
like shocking in a way, as you said, right, and

462
00:25:28,079 --> 00:25:31,119
but a lot of people felt represented. Uh, you know,

463
00:25:31,839 --> 00:25:34,799
and they still do even today. And I think that's

464
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why people love the movie so much. It's because they

465
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see themselves, and especially back then, and that's.

466
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Speaker 1: Why people fear it as well, because they see themselves.

467
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Speaker 2: And I think, especially back back then, you didn't have

468
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that kind of representation in traditional media. I mean, you

469
00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:51,960
have a little more today, but not, you know.

470
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Speaker 1: Not that kind of queerness.

471
00:25:53,319 --> 00:25:53,480
Speaker 2: Now.

472
00:25:54,079 --> 00:25:57,279
Speaker 1: We I've told this before about you know, when we

473
00:25:57,279 --> 00:26:00,480
were writing Legendary Children and our editors said, you know,

474
00:26:00,519 --> 00:26:03,400
they we had come up with a cover concept, does

475
00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:06,079
you know, cover design concept, and it was going to

476
00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:09,359
include a bunch of drag queens front that are in

477
00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:14,440
the book, drag queens and gender nonconforming performers, and so

478
00:26:14,599 --> 00:26:17,319
our editors said that you need to put a list

479
00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:20,000
together of who you want on the cover, And a

480
00:26:20,039 --> 00:26:22,400
lot of thought was put into that cover because we

481
00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:26,839
wanted it to be as diverse a representation of queerness

482
00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:27,400
as possible.

483
00:26:27,559 --> 00:26:29,640
Speaker 2: And also people that met her, you know, like, well,

484
00:26:29,759 --> 00:26:30,720
yes they had to be up.

485
00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:34,279
Speaker 1: Yet they weren't chosen just because they checked off a box.

486
00:26:34,319 --> 00:26:37,480
They were highly influential people. But in the case of

487
00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:41,640
frank Enferter, who does appear on the cover Tim Curry

488
00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:42,680
dressed as fran Conforter.

489
00:26:42,839 --> 00:26:43,119
Speaker 2: Is that.

490
00:26:45,079 --> 00:26:49,839
Speaker 1: I wanted to represent a queerness that wasn't homosexuality, like

491
00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:53,519
Frank Conforter is. By modern standards we would probably call

492
00:26:53,559 --> 00:26:57,039
her pan sexual, but in the in the parlance of

493
00:26:57,079 --> 00:27:00,200
the time, she was ac DC or bisexual, and I

494
00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:04,880
wanted someone who represented something other than homosexuality or transgender

495
00:27:05,279 --> 00:27:07,319
or there were lesbians on the cover as well, but

496
00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:11,680
I wanted that. I wanted a bisexual or pan sexual

497
00:27:11,759 --> 00:27:17,880
person who was gender non conforming, and possibly even by

498
00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:21,960
the standards of today, we might consider Frank Conforter non binary.

499
00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:25,960
They wouldn't have used that language back then, but that

500
00:27:26,039 --> 00:27:29,160
character pretty much represents non binary status. They are neither

501
00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:33,920
male nor female. They switch back and forth between presentation modes.

502
00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:38,319
Not that that's I can't define what non binary is,

503
00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:41,920
but that certainly does fit the description, right.

504
00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:44,640
Speaker 2: I think I think it's it's it is truly a

505
00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:47,960
phenomenon because this movie is insane. I mean the fact

506
00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:51,519
that they show the show the movie at midnight somewhere

507
00:27:51,799 --> 00:27:54,880
and they all dress like the characters, they go dancing,

508
00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:57,279
they jump on stage and all that. I think that

509
00:27:57,279 --> 00:28:00,279
that's an insane experience. Yeah, for a lot of people. People.

510
00:28:00,839 --> 00:28:05,359
My understanding is that the longest continued theatrical release in history,

511
00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:09,599
in the history of cinema, I believe, But it's just insane,

512
00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:13,079
and I don't think I'm quite sure that nobody knew

513
00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:16,279
that was going to become such a thing it still is.

514
00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:18,279
Speaker 1: I mean, I mean, it was a cult classic when

515
00:28:18,319 --> 00:28:21,720
it was a stage show, so and it had the

516
00:28:21,759 --> 00:28:25,279
same effect on people where people were coming in knowing

517
00:28:25,319 --> 00:28:27,440
the lyrics to the songs and dressing up as the

518
00:28:27,519 --> 00:28:30,440
characters and interacting with the cats. Not to the level

519
00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:32,319
that the movie became, because it would have been really

520
00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:36,240
disruptive for a stage show, But I think they understood

521
00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:38,680
that they had something I don't Obviously, no one could

522
00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:42,200
have predicted that it would become this international phenomenon that

523
00:28:42,279 --> 00:28:45,799
last fifty years. But I do feel that they made

524
00:28:45,799 --> 00:28:48,000
the film because they understood they had something that people

525
00:28:48,079 --> 00:28:50,480
were responding to. And that's the other thing that I

526
00:28:50,519 --> 00:28:55,079
want to that makes this film so important, Like, honestly,

527
00:28:55,759 --> 00:28:59,319
very few films had the kind of cultural impact and

528
00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:02,079
personal that a film like Rocky Horror has. And it

529
00:29:02,119 --> 00:29:04,759
was the point that we tried to make in our book,

530
00:29:04,799 --> 00:29:07,799
and part of the reason it was included in the

531
00:29:07,839 --> 00:29:12,079
book is because I don't think a single cultural document

532
00:29:12,279 --> 00:29:17,240
led more people to the realization of their own queerness

533
00:29:17,839 --> 00:29:21,720
than Rocky Horror, because people were going to the shows

534
00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:25,680
dressed as the characters. And what this meant was a

535
00:29:25,799 --> 00:29:30,720
whole generation of men who probably wouldn't have had the

536
00:29:30,759 --> 00:29:36,519
nerve otherwise were putting on garters and mascara and lingerie

537
00:29:36,799 --> 00:29:41,119
and going out in public and expressing themselves among a very,

538
00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:47,559
very supportive community of people cheering them on. And I mean,

539
00:29:47,799 --> 00:29:51,640
I wish I had come to my own realization under

540
00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:56,119
those circumstances. What a great way to just slam that

541
00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:59,880
closet door open. And it cannot be counted the number

542
00:30:00,119 --> 00:30:04,559
of men now. I have no doubt that this film

543
00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:08,359
also allowed a lot of trans people to come to

544
00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:11,559
their realization and allowed a lot of queer women to

545
00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:14,920
come to this. So I think it's just queerness across

546
00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:19,680
the board and self expression that really allowed the people

547
00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:23,359
in the audience to become a part of that expression.

548
00:30:23,359 --> 00:30:25,599
Speaker 2: I think. I think that's the great thing about things

549
00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:28,559
like that. I remember when I was it was the pandemic,

550
00:30:28,559 --> 00:30:32,160
and I was very deep into physique magazines from the

551
00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:38,480
fifties and so, and everyone was saying everything I read

552
00:30:38,519 --> 00:30:41,680
and everybody was saying that, you know, before those magazines,

553
00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:44,119
when the magazines start coming out and they started buying

554
00:30:44,119 --> 00:30:48,359
those magazines, the first thing that people you know, thought

555
00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:50,319
and thought to themselves were like, oh my god, there's

556
00:30:50,359 --> 00:30:53,079
people like me. There's people like me out there. And

557
00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:56,319
I think that that realization that there are people like

558
00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:59,160
you out there means that you are not you know,

559
00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:03,480
you're not abnormal. You know there are other people like

560
00:31:03,519 --> 00:31:05,319
that like you. And I think the same thing with

561
00:31:05,359 --> 00:31:08,039
a movie like this. I was actually watching in PR

562
00:31:08,119 --> 00:31:11,160
this morning and they were talking about this movie and

563
00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:14,119
they were there were interviewing people who still go see

564
00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:16,119
the movie all the time, and they were saying that

565
00:31:16,519 --> 00:31:18,839
when they saw the movie, the first thing they thought

566
00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:21,240
was like, oh my god, there's a whole world out

567
00:31:21,279 --> 00:31:25,519
there that is bigger than I thought, you know, a

568
00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:28,759
representation much bigger than what we see in front of us.

569
00:31:29,519 --> 00:31:32,079
And that's I think that's company. I think that's that's

570
00:31:32,119 --> 00:31:33,599
so great for a lot of people.

571
00:31:33,839 --> 00:31:37,079
Speaker 1: The gay writer David Sedaris once wrote something that I

572
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:40,279
never ever, ever ever forgot he's a few years older. Well,

573
00:31:40,279 --> 00:31:42,039
he's more than a few years older than me. He's

574
00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:44,799
pretty much a baby boomer. But he talked about growing

575
00:31:44,839 --> 00:31:47,440
up in the seventies as a young gay kid, and

576
00:31:47,519 --> 00:31:52,000
he said, my parents knew. I mean, he wrote, and

577
00:31:52,079 --> 00:31:55,640
I'm obviously paraphrasing, my parents knew. You know, a girl

578
00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:59,079
who knew knew a family where a girl had swallowed,

579
00:31:59,119 --> 00:32:01,200
you know, drain cleaner to try and kill herself in

580
00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:05,000
another family. And he just listed all of these scandals

581
00:32:05,039 --> 00:32:10,240
and embarrassments that happened in his suburban, upper middle class,

582
00:32:10,279 --> 00:32:14,400
white neighborhood, all these terrible things that happened in other families.

583
00:32:14,759 --> 00:32:16,880
And he said, but the one thing I never heard

584
00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:20,880
growing up was someone had a gay kid. And I'm

585
00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:26,160
telling that story because I want to bounce off something

586
00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:29,279
you said about people not knowing until they went to

587
00:32:29,319 --> 00:32:32,480
that movie, that there was something like if you were

588
00:32:32,559 --> 00:32:35,279
a millennial or younger, or even if you're a young

589
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:38,559
young gen X, although I think most gen X understands this,

590
00:32:40,319 --> 00:32:43,119
there was nothing when you were growing up. But there

591
00:32:43,279 --> 00:32:46,759
was nothing. There was nobody out there who was like you,

592
00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:49,799
let alone somebody saying it's okay to be the way

593
00:32:49,839 --> 00:32:52,759
you are, we're very used to. We live in a

594
00:32:52,799 --> 00:32:55,160
world now where these sorts of things are encouraged at

595
00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:57,480
a very young age for the most part. I mean,

596
00:32:57,519 --> 00:33:01,160
obviously it's still controversial. We're still having conversations about trans kids,

597
00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:04,519
but we have an understanding that there needs to be

598
00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:06,559
examples put out and impact. This is what the right

599
00:33:06,599 --> 00:33:08,680
wing is trying to do right now is to remove

600
00:33:08,799 --> 00:33:14,119
as many cultural examples of freedom of expression, queerness, blackness,

601
00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:17,160
you know, all of that. They're trying to remove as

602
00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:19,359
much of that from the culture to make it harder

603
00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:22,160
for the people who are like that to exist.

604
00:33:22,279 --> 00:33:24,960
Speaker 2: It's been a long time, but I'll be very honest

605
00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:28,640
with you, I can still feel the feeling of having

606
00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:32,160
people like you when I was a teenager or whatever,

607
00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:35,519
having friends who were gage just like me, that feeling

608
00:33:35,559 --> 00:33:38,599
that there are other people like you and you can

609
00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:41,359
share things with them, especially back then that I couldn't

610
00:33:41,599 --> 00:33:46,279
tell anybody that was gay. It wasn't that easy. So

611
00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:49,039
just having friends having people that were going through the

612
00:33:49,079 --> 00:33:52,279
same thing like you meant so much to be and

613
00:33:52,359 --> 00:33:53,160
probably saved me.

614
00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:56,839
Speaker 1: Oh, I agree, Yeah, I think it's yes, and I

615
00:33:56,880 --> 00:33:59,720
think we can safely say that The Rocky Hard Picture

616
00:33:59,759 --> 00:34:03,160
Show saved a lot of lives, saved a lot of lives,

617
00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:08,559
quite literally. So here's to the Rocky Harpit. Yeah, maybe

618
00:34:08,559 --> 00:34:09,239
i'll watch it again.

619
00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:10,760
Speaker 2: I know now I want to watch it again.

620
00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:13,199
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, we're gonna take a short break and

621
00:34:13,199 --> 00:34:15,039
then we're gonna come right back and talk about the

622
00:34:15,039 --> 00:34:16,480
House of Guinness.

623
00:34:18,639 --> 00:34:21,159
Speaker 2: We're back and we're going to talk now about the

624
00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:24,360
House of Guinness, the show that on Netflix, that just

625
00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:28,079
dropped on Netflix. I watched it a long time ago

626
00:34:28,519 --> 00:34:31,239
because I was very excited about it because we recently

627
00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:34,079
went to Dublin, and of course I want to see

628
00:34:34,079 --> 00:34:34,440
the show.

629
00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:39,400
Speaker 1: The Guinness Storehouse Tour. Oh my god, you ever go

630
00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:43,079
to Dublin. It was literally my favorite favorite tourist attraction

631
00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:43,840
in Dublin.

632
00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:46,320
Speaker 2: It's funny because I booked everything ahead of time and

633
00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:49,039
I left that for like almost like the last day

634
00:34:49,079 --> 00:34:51,039
of our there, and we.

635
00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:52,920
Speaker 1: Had the most We had the most fun there.

636
00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:55,000
Speaker 2: I don't even drink I don't drink beer, but I

637
00:34:55,039 --> 00:34:56,039
had the best time.

638
00:34:56,239 --> 00:34:59,239
Speaker 1: Not only that, it's a really good for if you're

639
00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:03,760
not Irish, it's a really good way when you come

640
00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:07,000
out of that tour, you have a very good understanding

641
00:35:07,119 --> 00:35:10,760
of how Guinness is not a beer, it is a culturalation.

642
00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:15,159
It is so tied up with Irish culture, Irish identity,

643
00:35:15,199 --> 00:35:18,880
and Irish history in a way that I actually didn't

644
00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:21,920
know until I went on that tour, and it did

645
00:35:22,079 --> 00:35:25,880
actually help me get into this show a little bit.

646
00:35:26,239 --> 00:35:29,639
Now I'm going to let you know that you loved it,

647
00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:31,960
but I just want to say I like it, and

648
00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:33,920
we're going to talk about I don't really have a

649
00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:35,920
lot of criticisms of it. It just comes down to

650
00:35:36,159 --> 00:35:38,159
whether that style of show appeals to you or not.

651
00:35:38,239 --> 00:35:41,719
Let me just say this, A lot of write ups

652
00:35:41,719 --> 00:35:44,639
for this show have quite accurately described it as a

653
00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:48,679
cross between Peaky Blinders and Succession, and those were two

654
00:35:48,719 --> 00:35:52,920
shows I didn't love. So right there, it's it was.

655
00:35:53,119 --> 00:35:56,159
But again, I'm not going to be terribly critical about it.

656
00:35:55,679 --> 00:35:57,599
It's it's a lot of fun. But I'm going to

657
00:35:57,599 --> 00:35:58,119
toss to a.

658
00:35:58,039 --> 00:36:00,960
Speaker 2: Lot of people. A lot of people love Peakles number one,

659
00:36:01,119 --> 00:36:04,440
and so it was. It's it's the same creators, They

660
00:36:05,559 --> 00:36:08,960
same people who did Peaky Blinders. They're you know, now

661
00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:12,639
they're doing House of Guinness. I watched Picky blind the

662
00:36:12,639 --> 00:36:15,400
first season I did, and I again, I watch it

663
00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:19,880
because it's Irish stuff. I'll watch anything Irish and it's

664
00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:22,840
it looked beautiful, but it wasn't really my thing, to

665
00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:26,320
be honest. Towards the end of the first season, I

666
00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:28,480
was pretty much just had I just had the TV

667
00:36:28,639 --> 00:36:31,119
on and kind of watching it. But it wasn't that interested.

668
00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:34,400
So I didn't watch the second season and I forgot

669
00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:38,400
about it. Now House of Guinness, I was interested because

670
00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:41,639
again we went to Dublin, we visited the Guinness House

671
00:36:41,679 --> 00:36:44,519
and all that, and and because of the history, as

672
00:36:44,519 --> 00:36:47,800
you mentioned it. I mean, you go to Ireland, they're

673
00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:50,320
all they talk about. You know, Well, no it's not

674
00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:52,480
there they will talk about, but the Guinness it's it's

675
00:36:52,519 --> 00:36:52,800
all that.

676
00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:53,599
Speaker 1: It's everywhere.

677
00:36:53,639 --> 00:36:57,719
Speaker 2: It's everywhere. The beer it's everywhere, signs, pops everything. That's

678
00:36:57,719 --> 00:37:00,360
what I'm meant. So I was like off car and

679
00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:02,760
then I was and then I wanted to watch the show.

680
00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:06,320
I knew very little about the history of it, and

681
00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:08,559
then I was shocked, first of all, find out they

682
00:37:08,559 --> 00:37:12,320
were all British. It was a British family and the

683
00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:16,159
history behind me, and they were British loyalists. They were

684
00:37:16,199 --> 00:37:21,119
Irish Protestants living in Dublin. They were very, very wealthy

685
00:37:21,199 --> 00:37:25,320
and influential people. So let me just give an overview.

686
00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:28,400
It's set in I believe eighteen sixty eight or something

687
00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:33,239
like that, correct in Dublin, and the story opens with

688
00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:36,360
the death of the family patriarch, and he has left

689
00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:40,480
four children, three sons and a daughter, and obviously the

690
00:37:40,519 --> 00:37:44,039
whole Guinness empire is going to be left to them,

691
00:37:44,519 --> 00:37:50,800
and I do tend to think the succession comparisons are

692
00:37:50,840 --> 00:37:56,880
slightly overstated because it's I will say, I've only seen

693
00:37:56,920 --> 00:37:59,440
five out of the eight episodes, and Lorenzo has seen

694
00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:01,800
the whole thing, so it could go into directions that

695
00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:05,119
I have not encountered yet. But one of the things

696
00:38:05,159 --> 00:38:08,440
that was a big point in its favor for me

697
00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:14,039
was that the four siblings are all contentious amongst each other,

698
00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:18,440
and they bicker, and they have different agendas, but it's

699
00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:20,679
not literally about people trying to fuck.

700
00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:23,679
Speaker 1: Each over each other over for power. They all have

701
00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:28,800
different agendas, but they're not trying to destroy each other.

702
00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:31,760
Let me just say that, Am I wrong? Okay? No,

703
00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:34,800
I agree, And that is echoes a long way towards

704
00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:38,719
making the story more palatable to me because I've ned generally.

705
00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:40,719
That's why I didn't watch Succession. I was like, yeah,

706
00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:42,559
I get it, and I know it was a comedy

707
00:38:42,559 --> 00:38:44,119
and there was a lot about it that was very,

708
00:38:44,199 --> 00:38:49,159
very appealing, but watching really, really wealthy people try and

709
00:38:49,239 --> 00:38:52,440
destroy each other is just not something I find all

710
00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:56,280
that interesting anymore. Having said that, I love this, I

711
00:38:56,320 --> 00:38:58,960
do love this show. I'm not as ecstatic about it

712
00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:01,000
as you are, but because I had to make some

713
00:39:01,039 --> 00:39:03,239
adjustments along the way. But let me just say it

714
00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:07,280
is a historical drama about a family, very wealthy, very

715
00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:10,760
powerful family, and it is also it does an excellent

716
00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:14,159
job of integrating the history and culture of Ireland into

717
00:39:14,199 --> 00:39:17,480
the story. Because when it opened in the first episode,

718
00:39:17,519 --> 00:39:18,800
I was like, I don't fuck I want to watch

719
00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:22,519
this because it was all the family is all wealthy Protestants.

720
00:39:22,599 --> 00:39:25,079
And as I said, my brother asked me about this

721
00:39:25,159 --> 00:39:26,719
show and I was like, I love it, but it's

722
00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:29,199
not about our people. I can tell you that we

723
00:39:29,199 --> 00:39:32,159
were the poor Irish Catholics who were digging for potatoes

724
00:39:32,199 --> 00:39:35,320
in the dirt, and they slag them off like they

725
00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:38,280
talk about the Fenians. And even in the first episode

726
00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:41,400
or two, it makes the Fenians look like these feral

727
00:39:41,519 --> 00:39:45,480
animal terrorists and this family is just so genteel. But

728
00:39:45,559 --> 00:39:48,719
as the story right, the story unfolds, and first off,

729
00:39:48,760 --> 00:39:52,199
it starts showing I mean, when the sister goes off

730
00:39:52,239 --> 00:39:54,480
to that village and meets that old woman, I mean,

731
00:39:54,519 --> 00:39:56,679
that's when it really I was like, here it is,

732
00:39:56,880 --> 00:40:01,079
here's the Ireland I know, or the history of Ireland,

733
00:40:01,159 --> 00:40:03,199
because I mean she takes her on a tour of

734
00:40:03,239 --> 00:40:05,639
like a mass grave of everybody in the village that

735
00:40:05,719 --> 00:40:09,760
died in the famine and everything. So when it started,

736
00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:10,960
I was like, I don't know if I want to

737
00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:14,000
watch fucking doalt mabbe with Irish accents, you know that,

738
00:40:14,079 --> 00:40:16,679
because it's it's really not my thing. But then it

739
00:40:17,320 --> 00:40:23,920
started unfolding, and and I don't like business soap operas,

740
00:40:24,079 --> 00:40:26,920
and I said that, like Succession doesn't really interest me,

741
00:40:27,039 --> 00:40:31,039
or that show industry doesn't really interest me. I'm glad

742
00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:34,599
that while this show does have to do with business

743
00:40:34,639 --> 00:40:37,679
deals and finances, it doesn't get too caught up in that,

744
00:40:38,199 --> 00:40:41,000
it doesn't get too into the weeds of what the

745
00:40:41,199 --> 00:40:45,119
actual business is. Like, I mean, no, it's very about

746
00:40:45,119 --> 00:40:47,320
the family. It's about the family it's about the.

747
00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:50,360
Speaker 2: Family, and I mean it does touch on the rebellion

748
00:40:50,440 --> 00:40:54,599
and religion and all that obviously, but it it and

749
00:40:54,679 --> 00:40:56,480
I wish some every now and then, I wish it

750
00:40:56,519 --> 00:40:59,639
went a little deeper, to be honest, because because I'm

751
00:40:59,639 --> 00:41:04,880
fascinat by the history. Uh so yeah, uh, the the

752
00:41:05,079 --> 00:41:08,159
you know, the family and and and everything that I

753
00:41:08,199 --> 00:41:11,519
didn't know. Then I went online and I kept reading

754
00:41:11,519 --> 00:41:13,480
about the family a little more so.

755
00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:19,440
Speaker 1: It's a highly glamorized, yes, modernized version of their story.

756
00:41:19,239 --> 00:41:21,880
Speaker 2: As your your sisters were asking me about it because

757
00:41:21,880 --> 00:41:24,360
I saw the screeners. I said, it's very soap operas

758
00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:28,039
in a way. But if you liked I go back

759
00:41:28,079 --> 00:41:30,440
and say, if you liked Peky Blinders, then you will

760
00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:33,400
love this because it's kind of the same approach to

761
00:41:33,519 --> 00:41:37,800
a story. The cinematography is absolutely.

762
00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:42,239
Speaker 1: Looks so expensive. I don't even know where some of

763
00:41:42,280 --> 00:41:44,480
this was shot. I know it was shot in London, wasn't.

764
00:41:44,280 --> 00:41:47,039
Speaker 2: It was shot in the north of England.

765
00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:48,320
Speaker 1: Right in Liverpool and Manchester.

766
00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:51,679
Speaker 2: Y's right, because they were trying to find places that

767
00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:54,960
sort of resemble like Doubling at the time, and Doubling

768
00:41:55,039 --> 00:41:58,480
right now doesn't anything like like back then, so they

769
00:41:58,519 --> 00:42:01,760
had to shoot it in the North of England also Wales,

770
00:42:01,800 --> 00:42:04,039
because there's some part of the story that they go

771
00:42:04,119 --> 00:42:05,519
to it. But just.

772
00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:11,639
Speaker 1: The sets and locations everyone. It's all brickwork and gas

773
00:42:11,719 --> 00:42:15,320
lamps and stope, you know, stove pipe hats and everything.

774
00:42:16,159 --> 00:42:18,400
It has a bit of a steampunk vibe to it.

775
00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:18,800
Speaker 2: It does.

776
00:42:18,960 --> 00:42:24,199
Speaker 1: It has. It's all modern music, extremely modern music, which

777
00:42:24,320 --> 00:42:28,559
is fun. But sometimes that doesn't bother me. But sometimes

778
00:42:28,559 --> 00:42:31,280
that bothers people. When it's a period drama and there's

779
00:42:31,320 --> 00:42:33,519
like rap music on the soundtrack.

780
00:42:33,239 --> 00:42:35,800
Speaker 2: Some people will be bothered by the music. I was

781
00:42:36,079 --> 00:42:41,440
absolutely love for the music. It's all Irish, contemporary Irish musicians.

782
00:42:42,079 --> 00:42:45,880
Speaker 1: I thought it was fans of fiddles and Diddley d

783
00:42:46,079 --> 00:42:48,400
kind of stuff, but it's all sped up and.

784
00:42:48,639 --> 00:42:51,679
Speaker 2: In fact, I put an article today in the Lounge

785
00:42:52,159 --> 00:42:56,239
with that gives you all the music by by episode,

786
00:42:56,920 --> 00:43:00,880
because it is fantastic. The costumes are insane. That attims

787
00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:06,639
are gorgeous, George and they were designed by Edward Edward K. Gibbon,

788
00:43:06,719 --> 00:43:10,599
that's his name. Fantastic, fantastic customes.

789
00:43:10,320 --> 00:43:13,000
Speaker 1: And I think he did a really good job because

790
00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:20,840
nobody everything's historically accurate from my understanding of the period.

791
00:43:21,559 --> 00:43:26,480
But because this show has a modern sort of vibe

792
00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:30,920
to it and has modern music and everything, he still

793
00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:33,079
manages to do little tweaks here and there to give

794
00:43:33,079 --> 00:43:36,639
it that slightly steampunk vibe while still being in the

795
00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:40,079
I mean Edward, the one brother with his stoat and

796
00:43:40,159 --> 00:43:42,519
a big fur collar that he wears that coat, Oh

797
00:43:42,519 --> 00:43:45,800
my god, it's stunning. But the one character I burst

798
00:43:45,800 --> 00:43:50,599
out laughing, what's her name, Ellen Cochrane, the Fenian woman.

799
00:43:51,239 --> 00:43:54,360
They showed her, and I was like, okay, nobody in

800
00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:57,360
eighteen No woman in eighteen sixty eight walked down the

801
00:43:57,360 --> 00:43:59,960
street with her hair down like that unless she was

802
00:44:00,280 --> 00:44:03,760
crazy or a prostitute. But even prostitutes didn't walk down

803
00:44:03,800 --> 00:44:07,159
the street with she has like long, flowing, curly red hair.

804
00:44:07,239 --> 00:44:09,280
And I'm like, okay, that's not how women wear their

805
00:44:09,280 --> 00:44:12,440
hair back then. And the women all say things like

806
00:44:12,480 --> 00:44:14,400
fuck you to the men, and so you know, it's

807
00:44:14,440 --> 00:44:19,960
all this very very very modern way of speaking modern music.

808
00:44:20,199 --> 00:44:25,039
But I do think I do think for the most

809
00:44:25,239 --> 00:44:29,920
part it does. It doesn't fail at depicting the period.

810
00:44:29,960 --> 00:44:32,480
I actually think it depicts the periodod very accurately.

811
00:44:32,840 --> 00:44:37,239
Speaker 2: It makes real real stuff with fiction, really really well. Yeah,

812
00:44:37,440 --> 00:44:39,880
so you get the bits that are real. If you

813
00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:42,880
go online, you find out that that that shit really happen. Yeah,

814
00:44:42,920 --> 00:44:44,480
But at the same time they just.

815
00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:45,639
Speaker 1: Go they tweak it.

816
00:44:46,920 --> 00:44:47,119
Speaker 2: Yeah.

817
00:44:47,400 --> 00:44:52,079
Speaker 1: Now I want to get into I'm not spoiling specific

818
00:44:52,119 --> 00:44:54,119
plot porm. Well, I mean, I'm going to tell you

819
00:44:54,159 --> 00:44:57,079
something about the oldest brother, because a lot hangs on

820
00:44:57,159 --> 00:45:01,159
the oldest brother. So if you don't want to know this,

821
00:45:01,280 --> 00:45:04,400
it is revealed. I think in the first episode I

822
00:45:04,679 --> 00:45:08,440
can't remember or by this early second it's not some

823
00:45:08,679 --> 00:45:11,480
massive twist, but I'm the oldest brother's gay.

824
00:45:13,320 --> 00:45:15,920
Speaker 2: Or the historians like to say he was bisexual.

825
00:45:16,920 --> 00:45:19,039
Speaker 1: Yeah, I did look him up. He apparently had a

826
00:45:19,039 --> 00:45:21,840
marriage of convenience and it was a long marriage, but

827
00:45:21,880 --> 00:45:27,159
they had no children. So a lot of plot points

828
00:45:27,239 --> 00:45:29,880
hang on the fact that he is this. Uh oh,

829
00:45:29,960 --> 00:45:32,760
I gotta say, Anthony Boyle. It's not that I think

830
00:45:32,760 --> 00:45:36,719
he's gorgeous, although he is very good looking, but Jesus,

831
00:45:36,719 --> 00:45:40,920
what a face for acting, because you cannot take your

832
00:45:40,960 --> 00:45:44,400
eyes off of him, and when he cries, you want

833
00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:46,599
to cry, and we lapse you want to laugh.

834
00:45:46,679 --> 00:45:49,000
Speaker 2: I think the cast is awesome. The cast is.

835
00:45:49,039 --> 00:45:51,079
Speaker 1: Very very good. But he because he was in Saying

836
00:45:51,119 --> 00:45:54,320
Nothing earlier this year or late last year, and I

837
00:45:54,360 --> 00:45:57,760
loved him in that as well. He just has a

838
00:45:57,800 --> 00:46:00,559
face that looks like it's never seen a so phone.

839
00:46:00,639 --> 00:46:04,400
I mean he that is a black and white Daguero

840
00:46:04,559 --> 00:46:07,960
type of a face. And anyway, so he plays the

841
00:46:07,960 --> 00:46:12,519
oldest brother and he's gay, and he inherits everything and

842
00:46:12,559 --> 00:46:15,199
he's in charge, and you know he's everything's being put

843
00:46:15,280 --> 00:46:17,519
upon him and all he wants to do was be

844
00:46:17,679 --> 00:46:24,360
with his snotty English boyfriend. And that's interesting. But the

845
00:46:24,559 --> 00:46:27,079
minute the minute, the minute the minute they introduced that

846
00:46:27,159 --> 00:46:30,079
plot point, I was like, Okay, here we go. I

847
00:46:30,119 --> 00:46:33,800
always had a problem with, for instance, Downton Abbey, uh,

848
00:46:33,840 --> 00:46:36,360
with the way it depicts a homosexuality. They had a

849
00:46:36,400 --> 00:46:41,039
gay butler, and he lived his life with an openness

850
00:46:41,079 --> 00:46:44,079
that simply would not have been granted to him at

851
00:46:44,079 --> 00:46:48,079
that time, Like openly the staff talked about Thomas the

852
00:46:48,119 --> 00:46:51,159
butler and his ways. This is not how it would

853
00:46:51,159 --> 00:46:55,519
have been. And this is kind of my issue with

854
00:46:55,639 --> 00:46:58,920
the way his homosexuality is. It's just too many people

855
00:46:59,119 --> 00:47:03,440
openly talking about something that nobody back then talked about,

856
00:47:03,760 --> 00:47:07,039
and the story gives you reasons why, and people are

857
00:47:07,039 --> 00:47:09,599
they're very uncomfortable and we shouldn't be having these conversations.

858
00:47:09,599 --> 00:47:11,599
We shouldn't be stating this over And the fact of

859
00:47:11,599 --> 00:47:13,480
the matter is you wouldn't have been stating this over right.

860
00:47:13,480 --> 00:47:16,039
Speaker 2: I think it's a fine line because again I go

861
00:47:16,079 --> 00:47:19,800
back to my Physique magazine, that people were reading the

862
00:47:19,800 --> 00:47:22,119
fifties with all these men and stuff, and would they

863
00:47:22,199 --> 00:47:25,519
used to write letters to the magazine, and that the

864
00:47:25,559 --> 00:47:28,119
creator of the magazine tried to be a little political,

865
00:47:28,400 --> 00:47:31,119
putting stuff about what was happening, people dying, gave people

866
00:47:31,199 --> 00:47:33,960
dying blah blah blah, and then the writers the readers

867
00:47:33,960 --> 00:47:36,440
were writing letters that God, can we just drop all

868
00:47:36,480 --> 00:47:39,079
this and have a good time? Right? But my point

869
00:47:39,199 --> 00:47:41,880
is that I do believe that people had to be very,

870
00:47:41,960 --> 00:47:47,719
very very cautious. But watching interviews online of very old,

871
00:47:48,039 --> 00:47:50,679
you know, queer people saying that, you know, it was horrible,

872
00:47:50,760 --> 00:47:52,800
we could get killed, go to jail, but we still

873
00:47:52,840 --> 00:47:54,840
managed to have a good time. My point is that

874
00:47:55,119 --> 00:47:57,400
I'm sure that he had his adventures and had his

875
00:47:57,440 --> 00:47:58,320
stuff going on.

876
00:47:58,280 --> 00:47:59,880
Speaker 1: But I don't think the whole family was sitting around

877
00:48:00,079 --> 00:48:00,880
talking about it.

878
00:48:00,960 --> 00:48:03,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, so that's why I Yeah, it's hard to tell,

879
00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:07,599
to be honest for me, I think if it really

880
00:48:07,679 --> 00:48:09,519
happened or not, or how open he was, I.

881
00:48:09,599 --> 00:48:12,719
Speaker 1: Don't care about the accuracy. Yeah, of his life he's

882
00:48:12,719 --> 00:48:16,559
dead one hundred and twenty years or whatever. I just

883
00:48:16,679 --> 00:48:20,119
mean that. And this is just a minor bugaboo that

884
00:48:20,199 --> 00:48:25,800
I have with how to me if you depict a

885
00:48:25,880 --> 00:48:30,519
gay person in eighteen sixty eight pretty much leading an

886
00:48:30,599 --> 00:48:35,599
open gay light semi open gay life, and other people

887
00:48:35,719 --> 00:48:41,000
are openly discussing his gayness. His sister, his brother's employees

888
00:48:41,079 --> 00:48:45,400
of Guinness are openly is at well spoiler, his wife

889
00:48:46,639 --> 00:48:51,360
openly discussing these things. And I just feel like, I

890
00:48:51,360 --> 00:48:53,960
don't want to be too inflammatory here, but it's it's

891
00:48:54,079 --> 00:48:59,800
like showing a benevolent version of slavery in the American South,

892
00:49:00,159 --> 00:49:02,760
version of it that just didn't exist for the people

893
00:49:02,840 --> 00:49:06,199
in it at the time. So, I mean, granted the

894
00:49:06,199 --> 00:49:08,760
show was not making the point that he lived an easy,

895
00:49:08,800 --> 00:49:11,079
open life, it does make the point that he could

896
00:49:11,119 --> 00:49:12,800
go to jail for this, that the company could be

897
00:49:12,880 --> 00:49:14,920
ruined with it. That's why he's pressure to get married

898
00:49:15,039 --> 00:49:19,519
exactly all that's fine. It's simply the way it's handled

899
00:49:19,639 --> 00:49:22,360
in like the dialogue and the story where I just

900
00:49:23,000 --> 00:49:24,639
I hate when I say it because I think it

901
00:49:24,639 --> 00:49:28,440
gives modern audiences a very, very inaccurate view of what

902
00:49:28,599 --> 00:49:35,440
queerness was. It was an abomination that right thinking, well

903
00:49:35,480 --> 00:49:42,199
bred people not only didn't discuss they didn't know about it,

904
00:49:42,000 --> 00:49:44,840
that it was so not discussed that people could go

905
00:49:44,920 --> 00:49:47,719
through their entire lives, sophisticated, intelligent people go to their

906
00:49:47,800 --> 00:49:51,159
entire lives having no idea that it even truly existed.

907
00:49:51,280 --> 00:49:54,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's why we don't have so much written history

908
00:49:55,000 --> 00:50:00,679
today because everything was burnt. Everything was burned, the family

909
00:50:00,719 --> 00:50:03,880
when when that person died, everything got burned. The family

910
00:50:04,039 --> 00:50:04,800
burned everything.

911
00:50:06,199 --> 00:50:09,239
Speaker 1: It's not really a criticism of the show. It just

912
00:50:09,280 --> 00:50:11,719
sort of it's one of those things that sticks in

913
00:50:11,800 --> 00:50:15,480
my cross sometimes with queerness and how it is portrayed.

914
00:50:15,960 --> 00:50:20,159
Prior to the twentieth century, it was, as you said,

915
00:50:20,679 --> 00:50:22,760
people lived their lives and they were able to people

916
00:50:22,760 --> 00:50:25,639
fell in love, people had life long gone and you know,

917
00:50:26,239 --> 00:50:30,159
relationships and I'm not saying these but they happened in

918
00:50:30,199 --> 00:50:33,400
the in the darkness, you know, they happened on the margins.

919
00:50:33,480 --> 00:50:36,480
People in society were not sitting around on their set

920
00:50:36,519 --> 00:50:40,000
tees drinking tea and talking about the problem of their

921
00:50:40,000 --> 00:50:44,280
brother's homosexuality. Like scenes like that. I'm like, okay, right,

922
00:50:44,400 --> 00:50:46,159
not how this would have been handled, Yeah, I can

923
00:50:46,199 --> 00:50:50,199
see that. But I will say Anthony Boyle is probably

924
00:50:50,239 --> 00:50:53,840
the best part of this show. Like you cannot take

925
00:50:53,840 --> 00:50:55,079
your eyes off him at all.

926
00:50:55,199 --> 00:50:56,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's really good.

927
00:50:56,480 --> 00:50:57,559
Speaker 1: He's very very good.

928
00:50:57,639 --> 00:50:59,119
Speaker 2: The sister is also very good.

929
00:50:59,199 --> 00:51:02,199
Speaker 1: Oh she's another one where I don't have a problem

930
00:51:02,360 --> 00:51:08,239
with this on the same level as queerness. But she's

931
00:51:08,360 --> 00:51:11,199
like this proto feminist character in eighteen sixty eight. She

932
00:51:11,599 --> 00:51:13,559
has plans, and I mean her aunt. That scene with

933
00:51:13,599 --> 00:51:15,639
her aunt where she starts laughing at her, She's like

934
00:51:16,079 --> 00:51:19,159
women with plans, like she does laugh at her. I know,

935
00:51:19,239 --> 00:51:21,480
I know, And to me, I was like, well, that

936
00:51:21,559 --> 00:51:23,920
actually is the more accurate point of view. I'm not

937
00:51:23,920 --> 00:51:26,639
saying a young woman in eighteen sixty eight who has

938
00:51:26,719 --> 00:51:30,559
apparently been educated and came up of means. I'm not

939
00:51:30,639 --> 00:51:34,880
saying she would not have ambitions of her own. You know,

940
00:51:34,920 --> 00:51:38,320
women in the nineteenth century actually did have ambitions. But

941
00:51:38,920 --> 00:51:41,679
she talks like a twentieth century feminists.

942
00:51:41,760 --> 00:51:44,239
Speaker 2: Because I think because we need the visuals, because I

943
00:51:45,039 --> 00:51:48,960
feel like back then, at that time, women didn't talk much,

944
00:51:49,079 --> 00:51:53,079
but they were very They did a lot of things,

945
00:51:53,239 --> 00:51:55,960
you know, right behind the scene, right and didn't get

946
00:51:56,000 --> 00:51:59,719
any recognition for whatever they did or influence. But they did.

947
00:52:00,000 --> 00:52:02,559
I mean, the last they did something, it's just at

948
00:52:02,760 --> 00:52:06,840
you know, it wasn't talked about the way it is

949
00:52:06,880 --> 00:52:09,840
on a show or you know, visually present like it

950
00:52:09,960 --> 00:52:11,599
is on the show, because you need there, you need

951
00:52:11,599 --> 00:52:14,119
that visual anyway.

952
00:52:14,360 --> 00:52:18,320
Speaker 1: But so the whole cast is good across the board.

953
00:52:18,800 --> 00:52:21,559
Like I said, Anthony Boyle is great. James Norton, who

954
00:52:22,159 --> 00:52:24,079
I don't think I've ever seen him play a piece

955
00:52:24,119 --> 00:52:27,159
of shit before. Yes, and he's really good at it.

956
00:52:27,360 --> 00:52:27,760
Speaker 2: It's good.

957
00:52:27,800 --> 00:52:30,199
Speaker 1: Actually, I don't think i've ever he's never been hot.

958
00:52:30,639 --> 00:52:32,800
He's so hot because he's such a piece of shit.

959
00:52:33,920 --> 00:52:36,280
Speaker 2: In the first episode, I was like, oh my god,

960
00:52:36,320 --> 00:52:37,519
you're an asshole.

961
00:52:37,679 --> 00:52:40,519
Speaker 1: Absolute asshole. He doesn't normally, I mean maybe he does.

962
00:52:40,599 --> 00:52:42,719
I haven't followed him that closely, but I can't recall

963
00:52:43,119 --> 00:52:46,280
ever seeing him be such an asshole. I also have

964
00:52:46,320 --> 00:52:50,199
to say Lewis Partridge, uh oh again. First off, I

965
00:52:50,239 --> 00:52:51,480
am shocked. He's twenty two.

966
00:52:51,920 --> 00:52:55,079
Speaker 2: Yeah, and Gage, Oh no, no, it's not gay.

967
00:52:55,239 --> 00:52:56,360
Speaker 1: No, i'd heard he was dat.

968
00:52:56,400 --> 00:52:59,480
Speaker 2: Oh he's not gay. He's dating. Oh never mind, sorry, No,

969
00:52:59,559 --> 00:53:03,039
he's not dare dating somebody else? Never mind, he's not gay. Uh,

970
00:53:03,360 --> 00:53:05,119
but he is excellent.

971
00:53:05,400 --> 00:53:08,880
Speaker 1: Yeah. I was shocked that he is so young, because

972
00:53:08,960 --> 00:53:12,280
he doesn't come across that young. I mean, he's very boyish,

973
00:53:12,280 --> 00:53:14,800
but I actually did think he was about five years

974
00:53:14,840 --> 00:53:17,679
older than that. He's very, very commanding on camera, and

975
00:53:17,719 --> 00:53:20,199
in some ways, at least in the first five episodes,

976
00:53:21,039 --> 00:53:23,880
he has the biggest role, Like he has the central

977
00:53:23,960 --> 00:53:27,480
role because a lot I mean Anthony Boyle's character. His

978
00:53:27,559 --> 00:53:31,079
older brother obviously plays a big part in it as well,

979
00:53:31,119 --> 00:53:34,880
but it seems like Edward the younger brother is constantly

980
00:53:34,960 --> 00:53:38,800
working to save his older brother or prevent him from

981
00:53:38,960 --> 00:53:39,679
showing himself.

982
00:53:39,760 --> 00:53:43,400
Speaker 2: So, just to add here, you're right, he's dating Olivia Rodrigo. Yeah,

983
00:53:43,480 --> 00:53:45,960
but he I was shocked how good he is because,

984
00:53:46,039 --> 00:53:47,280
as you said, he's very young.

985
00:53:47,360 --> 00:53:50,679
Speaker 1: He's very young, and he doesn't he comes off older,

986
00:53:50,760 --> 00:53:52,599
even though when I saw when I saw that he

987
00:53:52,639 --> 00:53:55,239
was twenty two, I was like, oh, I guess, yeah,

988
00:53:55,320 --> 00:53:57,559
he just I guess because of the top hat and

989
00:53:57,559 --> 00:54:00,559
the big coats, he looks so much more commanding and old.

990
00:54:01,639 --> 00:54:03,599
Speaker 2: But again, the set's the costumes.

991
00:54:03,599 --> 00:54:06,920
Speaker 1: I mean, if nothing else, if nothing else, I really

992
00:54:07,199 --> 00:54:09,880
was blown away by how beautiful it looks. It looks

993
00:54:09,960 --> 00:54:12,440
extremely expensive clip show it does.

994
00:54:12,840 --> 00:54:15,280
Speaker 2: And I was shocked and please because again we went

995
00:54:15,320 --> 00:54:17,559
to Doubling, and we went to the Guinness House and

996
00:54:17,599 --> 00:54:22,280
the the gate. We saw the gate. We have pictures

997
00:54:22,280 --> 00:54:24,000
in front of the gate, so that's the first thing

998
00:54:24,039 --> 00:54:26,480
you see first episode, and I was like, oh, it's

999
00:54:26,519 --> 00:54:29,519
a reconstruction though I know, I know, but it's awesome.

1000
00:54:29,599 --> 00:54:32,719
Speaker 1: It looks just like it though. All right, So I

1001
00:54:32,760 --> 00:54:35,480
would say that this is recommended. This is a highly

1002
00:54:35,519 --> 00:54:39,440
recommended show. It's very entertaining. It's soap opera a, but

1003
00:54:39,559 --> 00:54:41,280
the cast is fun.

1004
00:54:42,039 --> 00:54:43,920
Speaker 2: I have to say, if you don't know anything about it,

1005
00:54:43,960 --> 00:54:46,360
the first episode might be a little too much for you,

1006
00:54:46,480 --> 00:54:48,920
but just keep watching. Because I was a little overwhelmed.

1007
00:54:49,280 --> 00:54:52,239
Speaker 1: Well there's some violence, not I mean there's no violence

1008
00:54:52,280 --> 00:54:53,239
at all, but the whole.

1009
00:54:53,079 --> 00:54:54,800
Speaker 2: History and everything, what's going on. I was like, what

1010
00:54:54,880 --> 00:54:55,599
is going on here?

1011
00:54:55,719 --> 00:54:58,599
Speaker 1: There's a lot of Irish history. Yeah, and I was

1012
00:54:58,679 --> 00:55:02,199
pleasantly surprised by the at and it does a really

1013
00:55:02,280 --> 00:55:05,920
good job of integrating it, not just history but culture.

1014
00:55:06,119 --> 00:55:06,360
Speaker 2: Yes.

1015
00:55:06,480 --> 00:55:11,239
Speaker 1: Yes, at one point the ann mentioned to extremely obscure,

1016
00:55:11,320 --> 00:55:13,760
but I guess not if you're in Ireland Celtic gods.

1017
00:55:14,559 --> 00:55:16,960
That I was like, oh wow, they're really going into

1018
00:55:17,039 --> 00:55:20,719
Irish culture. So it's not all shamrocks and whiskey. They're

1019
00:55:20,719 --> 00:55:24,480
going into you know, the mythology, the history, the religions.

1020
00:55:24,559 --> 00:55:27,800
Speaker 2: So no one watch it again because I really enjoyed it.

1021
00:55:27,880 --> 00:55:29,559
Speaker 1: Yeah, I have to finish it. I have three more

1022
00:55:29,559 --> 00:55:32,639
episodes to go. But it is recommended, that is Telo recommended.

1023
00:55:32,800 --> 00:55:35,159
Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely, absolutely right.

1024
00:55:35,360 --> 00:55:38,719
Speaker 1: So I believe that's it for us. We'll be back

1025
00:55:38,719 --> 00:55:41,320
next week with whatever crosses our eyes across as our desks.

1026
00:55:41,559 --> 00:55:43,800
Until then, take care of yourselves, love you mean it.

1027
00:55:43,880 --> 00:56:01,079
Speaker 3: Bye bye bye I t TE